Upgrade

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00:00:03 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 19.

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00:00:34 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined as always by the man about town, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Hi Myke, I'm the man about town, eh?

00:00:43 ◼   ► Uh huh, that's what you want to say.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Interesting way to describe somebody who works inside his house.

00:00:49 ◼   ► You're a Snell town, you know?

00:00:52 ◼   ► Sure.

00:00:53 ◼   ► You're the mayor of Snell town.

00:00:54 ◼   ► I bring it with me, yeah.

00:00:55 ◼   ► I don't know where that came from.

00:00:57 ◼   ► It was the first thing that came to my head.

00:01:00 ◼   ► I have a little bit of a sore throat today so I might be a little bit husky, Jason.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I'm just getting over my cold.

00:01:06 ◼   ► My cold is finally abating.

00:01:08 ◼   ► I'm almost out of it.

00:01:09 ◼   ► I'm almost done with the cold.

00:01:12 ◼   ► So I'll probably get the flu.

00:01:13 ◼   ► I've been thinking about it recently, right?

00:01:15 ◼   ► I have a sore throat because over the weekend I went to a birthday party.

00:01:19 ◼   ► My brother was celebrating his 30th birthday.

00:01:22 ◼   ► So we celebrated and in celebrating my throat became sore because out in nightclubs and

00:01:29 ◼   ► talking to people it's loud.

00:01:31 ◼   ► And I think to myself these days I should take more care of my voice so maybe I'll take

00:01:34 ◼   ► like an extra sketch or something next time and just won't speak.

00:01:39 ◼   ► This is how I always feel with WWDC.

00:01:40 ◼   ► I'm not used to spending a lot of time out in loud environments shouting at people in

00:01:48 ◼   ► order to be heard.

00:01:49 ◼   ► And so whenever I go to WWDC or some other conference,

00:01:54 ◼   ► I have this where I shred my voice in very short order.

00:01:57 ◼   ► It happens really quickly.

00:01:59 ◼   ► - Yep, I can feel it going within like 20 minutes.

00:02:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, and where was it?

00:02:04 ◼   ► At Singleton, I was doing a podcast with Dan Morin

00:02:07 ◼   ► after one of the events in the evening.

00:02:10 ◼   ► And Dan and I looked at each other about 10, 20 minutes in

00:02:13 ◼   ► and we're like, we need to stop talking

00:02:15 ◼   ► or our podcast later is gonna be,

00:02:18 ◼   ► "Hello, Dan!"

00:02:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:20 ◼   ► You know, it just completely wrecked.

00:02:21 ◼   ► So yeah, you're gonna have to watch that.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Your voice is your professional tool now.

00:02:28 ◼   ► It's your instrument.

00:02:29 ◼   ► - If you would like to hear myself,

00:02:32 ◼   ► Stephen, Jason, and Dan very hoarse at WWDC,

00:02:37 ◼   ► there is an episode of the pre-relay Clockwise.

00:02:41 ◼   ► - Oh yes. - Where we did that.

00:02:42 ◼   ► And it was quite funny, like we were doing that show

00:02:44 ◼   ► and I was like, "I can't talk, guys."

00:02:46 ◼   ► I'll put it in the show notes.

00:02:48 ◼   ► It's quite funny to hear us.

00:02:49 ◼   ► There was lots of drinks around the room

00:02:52 ◼   ► to try and keep everybody speaking.

00:02:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:02:56 ◼   ► It's not good, you know, yeah.

00:02:58 ◼   ► It may be entertaining content,

00:02:59 ◼   ► but down quality in terms of voices.

00:03:03 ◼   ► You need to be able to be heard to be on a podcast.

00:03:05 ◼   ► I think it'd be difficult for somebody

00:03:07 ◼   ► who's lost their voice to be on a podcast.

00:03:09 ◼   ► - So we have a real barnstormer of a show today.

00:03:12 ◼   ► - We do.

00:03:13 ◼   ► This is a biplane that is going around from town to town

00:03:16 ◼   ► doing tricks aerially. It's that kind of show.

00:03:18 ◼   ► - It's that kind of show.

00:03:19 ◼   ► So we're gonna kick it off with some epic length followup,

00:03:23 ◼   ► but in a good way.

00:03:25 ◼   ► So why don't you tell me what we've got?

00:03:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, good followup.

00:03:28 ◼   ► We're doing some restructuring of formats and verticals

00:03:32 ◼   ► and we've had some notes from the network executives

00:03:36 ◼   ► and it's all gonna be good.

00:03:38 ◼   ► But we'll start with a little followup

00:03:39 ◼   ► because I love the followup.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Listener Rob wrote in to say,

00:03:44 ◼   ► Thank you, Jason, for motivating me to finally write my thing about all day battery life.

00:03:51 ◼   ► So we talked last week about Apple solving for X with batteries and Myke pushed back

00:03:57 ◼   ► on some of the theories in my charts, which actually was quite enjoyable.

00:04:00 ◼   ► I really enjoyed that you were like, "Well, wait, what about this?"

00:04:03 ◼   ► And that was, I love the give and take of that segment.

00:04:05 ◼   ► I thought that was really great.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Rob wrote a piece that we can put in the show notes where he talks a little bit about battery

00:04:13 ◼   ► life and who uses, you know, people are creatures of habit. He said we get used to plugging

00:04:21 ◼   ► in our phones, that more people would have their phones run out of battery if they never

00:04:29 ◼   ► plugged in their phones, but you get trained to plug them in in order to hoard electricity

00:04:32 ◼   ► and then you end up in a place where your phone lasts, but it's been tethered. And he

00:04:38 ◼   ► he makes a bunch of other points

00:04:39 ◼   ► and it's an interesting piece,

00:04:40 ◼   ► but I wanted to use that as a jumping off point

00:04:43 ◼   ► to also based on some feedback

00:04:45 ◼   ► that isn't in our notes that I got is,

00:04:47 ◼   ► just to discuss this,

00:04:50 ◼   ► Apple seems to feel like there are,

00:04:54 ◼   ► Apple is well aware there are people

00:04:58 ◼   ► who want more battery life on their iPhone.

00:05:00 ◼   ► They're well aware of that.

00:05:02 ◼   ► I think Apple seems to feel that the people

00:05:04 ◼   ► who really, really want more battery life

00:05:07 ◼   ► are a relatively small group that can just buy

00:05:10 ◼   ► an external battery or a battery pack.

00:05:11 ◼   ► And I talk to people all the time,

00:05:12 ◼   ► there are certain people who never use

00:05:14 ◼   ► an external battery pack.

00:05:15 ◼   ► And then there are other people who are like,

00:05:16 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, I always just buy a Mophie case."

00:05:19 ◼   ► Like always, that's always what they do.

00:05:21 ◼   ► 'Cause that for them, they like to live their life with that.

00:05:24 ◼   ► And Apple's approach seems to be that everybody else

00:05:29 ◼   ► shouldn't have to take on more thickness and weight

00:05:31 ◼   ► in their phone for, in order to fulfill the needs

00:05:35 ◼   ► of this smaller group of people who want more battery life

00:05:39 ◼   ► than what Apple is willing to give.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Now, the question is, where do you make that cutoff?

00:05:44 ◼   ► If it's half the people want more battery life

00:05:47 ◼   ► or 70% of the people want more battery life.

00:05:50 ◼   ► If most iPhones or many, very many iPhones

00:05:53 ◼   ► are always on battery packs

00:05:55 ◼   ► because the battery is just not good enough

00:05:57 ◼   ► to the point where it starts to also hurt sales of iPhones

00:05:59 ◼   ► 'cause everybody says you can't buy an iPhone,

00:06:01 ◼   ► it doesn't have enough battery life.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Apple has to make that decision about what is a niche feature and not fulfill it.

00:06:11 ◼   ► And I feel like with a battery, I mean, that's definitely, that seems to be what they're

00:06:15 ◼   ► doing is saying, look, most people get by just fine.

00:06:18 ◼   ► It's not hurting the perception of our product.

00:06:21 ◼   ► There are certain people who really, really, really, really want more battery life, but

00:06:24 ◼   ► there are third party products for them.

00:06:26 ◼   ► we're not going to subject every person who uses this device to extra weight because some

00:06:34 ◼   ► people really want more battery life, especially when they're third-party products. So that

00:06:38 ◼   ► seems to be where they're coming from.

00:06:40 ◼   ► So with my 5S, I had it living in a Mophie case for practically all of its life because

00:06:47 ◼   ► I wanted that extra battery, it doubled my battery power. But now with the 6 Plus, if

00:06:52 ◼   ► If I wanted a Mophie case, there's no way I could use it.

00:06:55 ◼   ► It would be huge.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Like, can you imagine?

00:06:57 ◼   ► Although, with the 6 Plus, there is one.

00:06:59 ◼   ► I know, yeah.

00:07:00 ◼   ► But with the 6 Plus, it seems a lot less necessary, because the 6 Plus actually does have the

00:07:04 ◼   ► best battery life of any iPhone.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Yeah, definitely.

00:07:09 ◼   ► I do wonder about battery life being a niche.

00:07:14 ◼   ► I don't think it is.

00:07:16 ◼   ► There's nobody in my life that I know that doesn't have battery issues.

00:07:23 ◼   ► People are plugging their phones in multiple times a day or they're complaining that these

00:07:27 ◼   ► phones don't get battery life or whatever.

00:07:29 ◼   ► I can't think of anybody that I know that wouldn't be happier to have more battery life.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Is that magic more battery life or is that more battery life but their phone is bigger

00:07:44 ◼   ► and heavier. That's the trade-off, right? And I want to make it clear too, I got a couple

00:07:50 ◼   ► notes about this. When I'm stepping through Apple's thought processes here, that is not

00:07:55 ◼   ► an endorsement necessarily. I'm just trying to understand why Apple does what it does

00:07:59 ◼   ► in some of this stuff. And I think that it's an interesting question of like, Apple presumably

00:08:05 ◼   ► has an internal research department that is polling existing Apple customers and prospective

00:08:13 ◼   ► Apple customers and really trying to get a read on people's attitudes toward this stuff.

00:08:18 ◼   ► And so Apple probably has a pretty good idea of what at least they think the add-on battery

00:08:25 ◼   ► market is versus the people who buy an iPhone and don't buy an add-on battery. And I think

00:08:32 ◼   ► it's an interesting question of where do you change your priorities? Where do you make

00:08:35 ◼   ► the cutoff? I think we're talking about this because this is closer to being an issue than

00:08:42 ◼   ► I mean there are things that are truly like so far out on the edge that you're

00:08:47 ◼   ► like you know I'm switching to desktop Linux you're like all right you know

00:08:51 ◼   ► you're so far off on the edge of the mass of the people who buy this product

00:08:55 ◼   ► that I'm not so worried about you you're going to find a way to make yourself

00:08:58 ◼   ► happy

00:08:59 ◼   ► I'm not going to take this product and mess it up a little bit just to satisfy

00:09:02 ◼   ► these edge cases but this one seems like it's a bigger issue and that there there

00:09:08 ◼   ► is more opportunity for Apple to revisit it and say well and which they may have

00:09:11 ◼   ► have done by, certainly by making the phones bigger, they've gotten battery life as part

00:09:16 ◼   ► of the bargain. And so I think that's interesting. But it's not that I'm necessarily endorsing

00:09:21 ◼   ► this line of thought. I'm just trying to understand why Apple does what it does, because I find

00:09:24 ◼   ► that can be illuminating in trying to understand what else they might be doing. And I think

00:09:29 ◼   ► this is an interesting question for that reason.

00:09:33 ◼   ► So I had some follow-up and a little bit of pushback last week about my kind of claims

00:09:41 ◼   ► about my battery life and how great I think it is basically.

00:09:45 ◼   ► And I remember talking, I believe, with Nick Donnelly

00:09:50 ◼   ► on Twitter, Upgrading listener, Nick Donnelly,

00:09:53 ◼   ► and he was kind of saying that your battery life is great

00:09:57 ◼   ► because of all the non-screen battery life it gets.

00:10:00 ◼   ► Like it's not actually that much better was his claim.

00:10:03 ◼   ► So I was thinking about this,

00:10:06 ◼   ► and I think what he was kind of meaning is like,

00:10:07 ◼   ► yes, the audio playback is way longer on the 6 Plus,

00:10:10 ◼   ► but standby and using the screen isn't.

00:10:12 ◼   ► So I wanted to think about this and kind of,

00:10:14 ◼   ► I took stock today of the way that I've used my phone.

00:10:18 ◼   ► Now, there is one thing that's really frustrating.

00:10:21 ◼   ► I wanted to include one of the usage statistics

00:10:23 ◼   ► as like a screenshot,

00:10:24 ◼   ► but I had to restart my phone at one point today

00:10:28 ◼   ► because I'd lost data coverage.

00:10:29 ◼   ► It was weird, blame EE, my carrier.

00:10:32 ◼   ► So now I can't get the numbers, the actual numbers,

00:10:36 ◼   ► but I have times, so I can give you that.

00:10:38 ◼   ► So basically, I looked at it today, and so from 9am to 4pm, I have used my iPhone constantly.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I've used it to check and reply to email, I've read the documents for these show notes

00:10:49 ◼   ► in Google Drive, I've read all of my Twitter-themed stream for the day, I was playing video, I

00:10:56 ◼   ► was watching YouTube videos at one point whilst I was eating some lunch, I've been playing

00:11:00 ◼   ► games, I've used maps, and I've been listening to Overcast, so I've been on a two and a half

00:11:05 ◼   ► hour round trip today, for example where I was also listening to Overcast and

00:11:09 ◼   ► playing games at the same time because I think when I use my phone I'm very

00:11:13 ◼   ► rarely have the screen off like even if I'm listening to a

00:11:17 ◼   ► show I'm playing games or reading Twitter or something like that. So between

00:11:22 ◼   ► 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. so I've used my phone I think constantly throughout that period

00:11:27 ◼   ► maybe like an hour where I wasn't where I was in a meeting I had 15% battery

00:11:31 ◼   ► life left on my phone by 4 p.m. So I think, I mean, and people can argue with

00:11:38 ◼   ► me, I think that's incredible and it's way more, way more than I got on my 5 and

00:11:44 ◼   ► my 5s. Yeah. Like I would have sometimes 15% by like 11 a.m. doing the same kind

00:11:51 ◼   ► of stuff. Yeah, I think most of the tests that involve screen on show that the 6+

00:11:56 ◼   ► life is crazy. Yeah and like to give, yeah, to give our kind of an idea to show

00:12:02 ◼   ► like it is kind of screen on time in like the last 24 hours. I'm looking at

00:12:07 ◼   ► the percentage like 17% tweetbot, 16% messages, 15% home and lock screen and

00:12:12 ◼   ► then it kind of goes down from there. So I mean I'm looking at it today and

00:12:18 ◼   ► coming out like yeah no that I think that's pretty impressive. That's a work

00:12:20 ◼   ► day. I've done an entire work day working on my phone for the entire day and it's

00:12:25 ◼   ► and it's lusted.

00:12:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, no, it's good.

00:12:29 ◼   ► I think the nice thing about the bigger screens

00:12:34 ◼   ► is that by doing bigger screens,

00:12:37 ◼   ► Apple is also picking up better battery life.

00:12:41 ◼   ► Even if it was never on its own enough,

00:12:43 ◼   ► I think with the bigger screen,

00:12:44 ◼   ► it gives them an opportunity to do better battery life.

00:12:49 ◼   ► And I liked, I mean, we had feedback

00:12:52 ◼   ► based on our discussion from people talking about

00:12:54 ◼   ► this idea that Apple's power isn't solving the issues,

00:12:59 ◼   ► they're not solving for X so much as they're a prisoner

00:13:05 ◼   ► to the way that the technology grows and changes

00:13:09 ◼   ► and all of that.

00:13:09 ◼   ► And I don't really buy that because I think in the end,

00:13:12 ◼   ► they could always make it bigger or heavier

00:13:14 ◼   ► or keep it the same.

00:13:15 ◼   ► And they often choose not to do that.

00:13:18 ◼   ► And that shows where their priorities are.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Yes, they are a prisoner in the sense that

00:13:22 ◼   ► this is a math problem.

00:13:23 ◼   ► why I say it's solving for X. This is algebra, you know, you change one variable and the

00:13:27 ◼   ► other variable has to change, and you're trying to get the right balance. And the way I figure

00:13:33 ◼   ► it, there's a number below which they won't go. And it varies some, but that number is

00:13:40 ◼   ► lower than I think some people, mystery number of people, would put the minimum battery life.

00:13:47 ◼   ► I think a lot of people would put it higher. But the good news is with the 6 line at least,

00:13:53 ◼   ► that number has come up perhaps as a side effect

00:13:57 ◼   ► of having more area inside the device,

00:14:01 ◼   ► so more places for battery to go,

00:14:03 ◼   ► just because you increase those screen dimensions

00:14:06 ◼   ► and even though it's not very thick,

00:14:08 ◼   ► that's still, you're adding a lot of area,

00:14:10 ◼   ► a lot of volume inside the device.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Anyway, I think it's an interesting topic

00:14:17 ◼   ► and I'm glad we got some feedback about that.

00:14:22 ◼   ► uh...

00:14:24 ◼   ► so let's see do we want to do a sponsor break now?

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00:16:07 ◼   ► Thanks friends.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Thanks lynda friends.

00:16:13 ◼   ► more follow-up. Something related it seems to last week when I admitted that I don't

00:16:18 ◼   ► use full screen mode very much, not even when editing, not even when editing using Logic

00:16:22 ◼   ► 10 on an 11-inch MacBook Air, which I admit is kind of crazy.

00:16:27 ◼   ► You can't really use Logic in full screen though, because when you're trying to move

00:16:31 ◼   ► around the interface, it kind of sometimes requires you to drag outside of the app to

00:16:35 ◼   ► move quickly enough. So even though I am a full screen person, I don't use Logic in full

00:16:41 ◼   ► green because it slows me down. I will sometimes use it once I'm finished

00:16:47 ◼   ► dragging everything in and I'm just kind of motoring away with with editing for a

00:16:52 ◼   ► while but it's not it doesn't save me that much space either honestly it saves

00:17:00 ◼   ► me very small amount of space. Anyway, related to podcast editing I'm

00:17:06 ◼   ► gonna write something about this on six colors this week but I should pass on

00:17:11 ◼   ► I made a video. I made two videos this week, actually. I posted two videos this

00:17:19 ◼   ► week. One of them we'll put in the show notes. Well, we'll probably end up with

00:17:23 ◼   ► both of them in the show notes, won't we? But I'll put one in for you right now,

00:17:28 ◼   ► Myke. I did a time-lapse of me editing the incomparable this weekend, and I'm

00:17:34 ◼   ► gonna write about how I edit podcasts and embed that video, but it's up now,

00:17:39 ◼   ► so we can put that in the show notes. I saw CGP Grey did this with an episode of Hello

00:17:45 ◼   ► Internet I believe, and I thought that was an interesting idea, and when I write about

00:17:50 ◼   ► editing people ask me how I do my editing, and I occasionally post a screenshot and people

00:17:54 ◼   ► try to understand what the heck they're seeing, and I realized it might be useful sometime

00:17:58 ◼   ► to do a time lapse. So there's a video up at, I think it's like 200x of me editing an

00:18:06 ◼   ► episode of the incomparable, a fairly straightforward episode of the incomparable that you can go

00:18:10 ◼   ► see, speaking of editing things.

00:18:13 ◼   ► The difference between yours and Grey's video is Grey's video is 65 minutes long, because

00:18:18 ◼   ► he didn't respeed as much as you did, so depending on your tolerance.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I took the maximum speed of Final Cut Pro, you know, the 200x mode, and I just said

00:18:30 ◼   ► do that, and so it's about 10 minutes long, which should be enough.

00:18:34 ◼   ► You can pause it, you can move around in it and see stuff if you want to.

00:18:39 ◼   ► And it's a 1080, it's a full HD, so the resolution is pretty good if you want to see it at that

00:18:43 ◼   ► level.

00:18:44 ◼   ► And, and, you know, you can set speed on YouTube, so you could watch it at a quarter speed if

00:18:49 ◼   ► you wanted to.

00:18:50 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:18:51 ◼   ► There you go, brilliant.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So plenty of options there, and I will write something up about that hopefully this week.

00:18:57 ◼   ► That is a top tip from me, by the way, the speed on YouTube.

00:19:01 ◼   ► Like if I'm watching a video, like a keynote video for something, like I'm doing some research,

00:19:05 ◼   ► I tend to watch it at like 1.5 and it helps me get through things a lot quicker.

00:19:11 ◼   ► People who listen to podcasts at elevated speeds will appreciate this tip.

00:19:14 ◼   ► They will.

00:19:15 ◼   ► Uh, listener Connor, uh, wrote in related to this saying, "Establishing habits, Apple

00:19:21 ◼   ► releases a new feature that allows greater productivity.

00:19:23 ◼   ► How does JSON implement it?"

00:19:25 ◼   ► Um, I have two answers to this.

00:19:28 ◼   ► One is, I tend to try all the new things because I usually am reviewing this stuff, so I have

00:19:33 ◼   ► to use the new features.

00:19:35 ◼   ► And so I do.

00:19:36 ◼   ► And sometimes those new features will stick, and I'll use them.

00:19:41 ◼   ► And other times they won't, and they'll fall by the wayside.

00:19:44 ◼   ► And there are many, many, many OS X features, for example, that I have used during the development

00:19:50 ◼   ► phase of the operating system, and then the moment that I'm done with my article, I never

00:19:56 ◼   ► use them again.

00:19:58 ◼   ► happens a lot. Why is this Jason? Why do you think this is? Are you so ingrained that you

00:20:04 ◼   ► don't, things don't catch on? My second point was I've been a Mac user for 25 years, right?

00:20:09 ◼   ► And it's not just habit, but it's efficiency. And this is something that I think, the key

00:20:17 ◼   ► moment to adopting a new workflow, I think, we should talk about this with David and Katie

00:20:23 ◼   ► time. Mac power users, vertical. The key moment is when you realize that your super optimized

00:20:31 ◼   ► thing that you've built up over time, because I think that's what most of us do as users

00:20:34 ◼   ► is we build up these super optimized workflows that may not even make sense, but they built

00:20:40 ◼   ► up step by step. Each step made sense. I think that happens a lot in life where you create

00:20:44 ◼   ► this crazy percolage of things and you would never go that way by choice, but each step

00:20:53 ◼   ► seemed to make sense. And so you end up with this thing that is efficient for you and really

00:21:00 ◼   ► idiosyncratic, but it works and it works for you. And a lot of computer users have that.

00:21:06 ◼   ► They're like, "Well, I do it this way." Well, I don't. Why do you do that? Like my editing

00:21:10 ◼   ► video, right? It's like, why do you edit it that way? Somebody who's a professional audio

00:21:13 ◼   ► editor commented on the video on Twitter and he said, "This is both I don't watch and must

00:21:22 ◼   ► watch" because there are probably things in there that will make me go "Why?" and other

00:21:25 ◼   ► things that will make me go "Oh!" right? So my point is we do this and we build these

00:21:30 ◼   ► things up and this is how we do our jobs on computers. The trick is when something new

00:21:38 ◼   ► happens to, if you're lucky, you look at it and you realize that if you do this new thing,

00:21:46 ◼   ► even if it's slightly more work in the beginning, you can see that it will be less work in the

00:21:52 ◼   ► end once you are comfortable with it. And that's a hard thing to do because there's

00:21:56 ◼   ► a learning curve there and it's unfamiliar and you have to have the kind of vision of

00:22:03 ◼   ► like, "Oh, that might be a better way to do this. Maybe I'll try that." And that's hard.

00:22:07 ◼   ► And sometimes people just, I mean, most of the time, probably people just don't do it.

00:22:09 ◼   ► They just don't bother.

00:22:10 ◼   ► They're like, look, I've got, I've got it the way I want it.

00:22:13 ◼   ► I'm really efficient with this.

00:22:14 ◼   ► Like, like Chris Breen tried to get me to edit podcasts and audition because he thought

00:22:18 ◼   ► audition was superior to logic.

00:22:22 ◼   ► And I, I just, one is I just learned how to do logic, but the other thing was I had constructed

00:22:28 ◼   ► what I think is a very good logic editing workflow for the kinds of shows that I do

00:22:34 ◼   ► and what I'm trying to solve for, back to algebra, which is I want a good quality show

00:22:40 ◼   ► but I also want it done as fast as possible and I can do it really quickly with my approach.

00:22:46 ◼   ► And I think Chris's approach is more careful in some ways, but takes longer. And it's one

00:22:56 ◼   ► of those things that I could probably learn Audition and it might pay off, it might not.

00:23:03 ◼   ► And I decided, you know what? I just started doing logic. I'm pretty happy with it. I'm

00:23:06 ◼   ► going to stick with it. But I think we all have that with new features of any operating

00:23:10 ◼   ► system. You know, any, any upgrade to software upgrade. Okay. So ding, the show's paid for

00:23:16 ◼   ► itself. Um, and it's a challenge. It's a challenge for all users. Cause I think actually the

00:23:21 ◼   ► more efficient you are, the more a power user you are, where you're getting, doing these

00:23:25 ◼   ► weird things in order, putting different apps together, using utilities like, like text

00:23:30 ◼   ► Expander or Keyboard Maestro or things like that, the more of that you build on, the more

00:23:36 ◼   ► efficient you get, but the harder it is to unravel that and go back to something and

00:23:39 ◼   ► try something new. So that is, I have the assorted cruft of 25 years of being a Mac

00:23:45 ◼   ► user and although OS X kind of broke a lot of that stuff, I've still had, you know, whatever

00:23:50 ◼   ► 11 or 14 years, 13 years of OS X hardcore use to do the same thing. So yeah, it's a

00:23:58 ◼   ► a challenge. So I try because I have to write the reviews. At least I have to try this stuff.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Although one of the challenges with writing the reviews is if you're writing on like a

00:24:07 ◼   ► separate boot partition, you know, you're not really using it. You're like, "Doot-doo-doo,

00:24:13 ◼   ► here I am in this new beta of OS X Monterey Bay, and I'm using doot-doo-doo. Okay, now

00:24:19 ◼   ► I need to do work, restart, and then you do your work." Well, until you're really using

00:24:25 ◼   ► it on your real work and I know that's dangerous but until you're doing that you're not really

00:24:28 ◼   ► using it. You're just kind of tooling around in it and clicking on things and that's not

00:24:33 ◼   ► the same. So it's a challenge but I feel like I'm actually having an advantage in that my

00:24:38 ◼   ► job requires me to try it at least but even for that, even when you have that, like you

00:24:42 ◼   ► have to try it, it's hard to adopt that stuff.

00:24:45 ◼   ► Yeah I think it's, you know you say you kind of hinge on that point by saying it's your

00:24:52 ◼   ► history like your long history with the Mac but I think everyone's the same like

00:24:56 ◼   ► we all have our kind of our entrenched workflows like and it's

00:25:02 ◼   ► very difficult to break them like I was editing in GarageBand for way longer

00:25:06 ◼   ► than I needed to because it was what I knew I just knew how to use it and I

00:25:11 ◼   ► had logic I had logic yeah and I was just like ah but but I only want to

00:25:17 ◼   ► spend three hours editing this show and if I go to the new program whatever day

00:25:22 ◼   ► I do that it's gonna be ten hours. I had seven, never used it. I bought seven and

00:25:28 ◼   ► never used it because I was convinced that I needed to learn it. I mean seven

00:25:33 ◼   ► the UI was just like a it was like a toxic health stew basically and and

00:25:40 ◼   ► like ten when they brought ten out I was like right I can go in and do this now

00:25:44 ◼   ► because or X I actually don't it's called X right did I call it X or they

00:25:49 ◼   ► call it 10. They call this one X, don't they? They could go back and forth.

00:25:53 ◼   ► No, I think it's 10.

00:25:54 ◼   ► Oh, so confusing. But it's 7 to 10. And then when that came out, I was like, "I can understand

00:26:00 ◼   ► this and it's new so I can kind of jump in," and I did that. But that took me a long time

00:26:05 ◼   ► to then learn it, you know? And I'm still learning it. It's this thing like I use logic

00:26:09 ◼   ► every single day and there are so many features I don't fully understand how to use yet. But

00:26:14 ◼   ► I know what I know and I know what I need to know.

00:26:17 ◼   ► And that's kind of a very kind of a simple thing

00:26:20 ◼   ► for everybody.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Do you know what's hilarious?

00:26:22 ◼   ► Right now, I've just been told on my Mac

00:26:24 ◼   ► to learn what's new in OS X Yosemite.

00:26:26 ◼   ► It's like they can hear us.

00:26:28 ◼   ► You know, come on over guys, let me show you how to use it.

00:26:30 ◼   ► - No, the dialogue box should be like accept or deny.

00:26:35 ◼   ► Just no, I don't want to know.

00:26:37 ◼   ► Do not tell me anything that's new.

00:26:40 ◼   ► I think Connor's question is good.

00:26:42 ◼   ► I'm kind of serious.

00:26:43 ◼   ► I feel like we should come back to this at some point.

00:26:47 ◼   ► I think this is something that, interesting podcast

00:26:51 ◼   ► that I listen to touch on this sometimes,

00:26:54 ◼   ► but I feel like maybe this is the,

00:26:55 ◼   ► a lot of times it's the unsaid thing.

00:26:59 ◼   ► Maybe Upgrade is the right place,

00:27:00 ◼   ► since that's really what the name of this podcast is,

00:27:04 ◼   ► to talk about something you hear on Mac Power Users

00:27:06 ◼   ► or something Merlin talks about on Back to Work.

00:27:10 ◼   ► He does that sometimes too.

00:27:11 ◼   ► And there's this, I'm fascinated by that idea

00:27:15 ◼   ► that software companies work very hard

00:27:17 ◼   ► to create things that are new, new tools,

00:27:19 ◼   ► things to improve your workflow

00:27:21 ◼   ► and users tend to fight against it,

00:27:23 ◼   ► which is an interesting push and pull.

00:27:24 ◼   ► Like, you know, we need to give you,

00:27:26 ◼   ► instead of it being users with pitchforks and torches

00:27:29 ◼   ► demanding new features,

00:27:31 ◼   ► the way it seems to work in the software world

00:27:34 ◼   ► is all the users are like, no, don't change it.

00:27:37 ◼   ► And the software company is like,

00:27:39 ◼   ► guys, we gotta stay in business.

00:27:40 ◼   ► You gotta buy new features.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Here are some new features for you.

00:27:43 ◼   ► You like 'em, try 'em, come on.

00:27:44 ◼   ► And the user's like, "No, no, I don't want anything new."

00:27:48 ◼   ► Not all users, but that happens a lot.

00:27:49 ◼   ► That happens a lot with people who really rely

00:27:52 ◼   ► on certain pieces of software to do their jobs,

00:27:54 ◼   ► because they don't like change.

00:27:55 ◼   ► They've got these super-optimized workflows,

00:27:57 ◼   ► and it's a challenge,

00:27:58 ◼   ► 'cause it's hard to move things ahead.

00:28:01 ◼   ► I think this is why Apple,

00:28:03 ◼   ► I mean, this is exactly why everybody freaked out

00:28:05 ◼   ► when Apple did Final Cut X.

00:28:07 ◼   ► And I'm not saying, again,

00:28:08 ◼   ► I'm not saying Final Cut X was a good idea.

00:28:11 ◼   ► All right, let's see.

00:28:12 ◼   ► I am.

00:28:13 ◼   ► I think it was a good idea in general to say,

00:28:15 ◼   ► we're going to, we want to do something

00:28:17 ◼   ► that's very different.

00:28:18 ◼   ► The problem was the way they communicated it

00:28:20 ◼   ► and the way they put it out there,

00:28:22 ◼   ► it was everybody perceived it as being,

00:28:24 ◼   ► oh, you should upgrade.

00:28:25 ◼   ► And it wasn't, it didn't have the features

00:28:28 ◼   ► that anybody who was using the previous version

00:28:30 ◼   ► of Final Cut could, you know,

00:28:33 ◼   ► so many of them couldn't upgrade to it

00:28:34 ◼   ► because it wasn't really an upgrade.

00:28:36 ◼   ► They should probably have called it, you know,

00:28:38 ◼   ► something new, new cut, second cut, I don't know what.

00:28:42 ◼   ► - It should have been just labeled as a beta,

00:28:44 ◼   ► like initially, and just put out that way.

00:28:45 ◼   ► - I kind of feel like it should have been,

00:28:47 ◼   ► I kind of feel like it should have been a new name.

00:28:49 ◼   ► A new name, maybe hearkening back to the old name 1.0,

00:28:51 ◼   ► because that's what it was, right?

00:28:53 ◼   ► But I understand why Apple wanted to do that,

00:28:56 ◼   ► and I totally understand why the users rebelled against it,

00:28:58 ◼   ► because again, you make your livelihood in Final Cut Pro,

00:29:01 ◼   ► and Apple gives you this thing, and you're like,

00:29:02 ◼   ► "Whoa, this is nothing like what I used."

00:29:04 ◼   ► And there, again, optimized workflows,

00:29:07 ◼   ► I've got everything where I want it.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Now you're completely messing this up.

00:29:10 ◼   ► And even if in the end, after a lot of work

00:29:13 ◼   ► and a bunch of updates, it is a better approach.

00:29:16 ◼   ► That's a lot of work that people may not want to do

00:29:20 ◼   ► ever or right now.

00:29:21 ◼   ► And just like you and me with logic, same thing.

00:29:24 ◼   ► It was clearly going to be in the end.

00:29:27 ◼   ► And that's why I finally jumped,

00:29:29 ◼   ► is I realized my frustrations with GarageBand

00:29:32 ◼   ► reached the point where I knew

00:29:34 ◼   ► that I needed to put in the time.

00:29:36 ◼   ► This is actually very similar to our feedback last week about scripting, an automator and

00:29:42 ◼   ► things like that.

00:29:44 ◼   ► At some point you realize, "Oh my God, if I put in five hours right now, I'm going to

00:29:47 ◼   ► save 100 hours in the next year."

00:29:51 ◼   ► That's what drives that change, I think, is that final realization that what you've got

00:29:55 ◼   ► now, although you optimized it, is just not good enough.

00:29:59 ◼   ► There's something out there that probably is better, and then you take the plunge.

00:30:03 ◼   ► And also Apple ripping out some of the podcast templates and features in GarageBand was like,

00:30:08 ◼   ► "Okay, time to go to Logic."

00:30:10 ◼   ► Like, Apple making their decision made on this, "You can still use the old GarageBand,

00:30:15 ◼   ► but at some point..."

00:30:16 ◼   ► It was like with Final Cut, right?

00:30:17 ◼   ► It's like, "At some point, you're not going to use it anymore, so you've got to kind of

00:30:21 ◼   ► learn the new thing."

00:30:22 ◼   ► So I decided instead of trying to learn the workarounds, which there are workarounds,

00:30:27 ◼   ► to get in GarageBand to still output as a podcast like you'd want.

00:30:30 ◼   ► I figured it's just time to move to Logic.

00:30:32 ◼   ► This topic, this idea, like you mentioned a moment ago about the company deciding that

00:30:38 ◼   ► they need new features, that users need new features and users rebelling, ties in really

00:30:45 ◼   ► interestingly to the software turnaround that we've been talking about recently.

00:30:51 ◼   ► Like who then, who is actually pushing the need for a yearly release cycle?

00:30:57 ◼   ► Is it the company, Apple, thinking that if they don't do this they're going to be irrelevant

00:31:01 ◼   ► or is it users really wanting it,

00:31:02 ◼   ► and maybe users don't want it.

00:31:04 ◼   ► I just think it's an interesting thing

00:31:05 ◼   ► that actually ties back to something

00:31:06 ◼   ► that we've been talking about for the last couple of weeks.

00:31:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, where is the drive?

00:31:11 ◼   ► I think there's some features that users,

00:31:14 ◼   ► I mean, the fact is, it's that famous thing

00:31:16 ◼   ► about the faster horse that I guess,

00:31:18 ◼   ► maybe somebody actually said,

00:31:20 ◼   ► if you ask people what they wanted,

00:31:22 ◼   ► a carriage horse and buggy users,

00:31:24 ◼   ► they'd say a faster horse, they wouldn't say a car.

00:31:26 ◼   ► Users don't always know what they want,

00:31:27 ◼   ► and that's sort of Steve Jobs famously has said that,

00:31:30 ◼   ► that they don't do a lot of focus group testing at Apple, right? Because people don't know

00:31:33 ◼   ► what they actually, what they need until Apple comes up with it and presents it to them.

00:31:39 ◼   ► And there's some truth to that. There are features that you're like, "Oh my God, this

00:31:42 ◼   ► is so great." But there are also things that it's that march of progress. It's like, "Oh,

00:31:46 ◼   ► well, you need to change how you do things, but in the end it'll be great." And people

00:31:50 ◼   ► are going to be much more resistant to that than if it's like a totally new thing, I think,

00:31:54 ◼   ► that comes out of left field. Yeah, this is really interesting. We've gone beyond follow-up

00:32:00 ◼   ► now. I feel bad because we had short follow-up and now that hasn't happened, but this is

00:32:04 ◼   ► really a topic. So thank you, Upgrading and Connor, for driving us into this topic, which

00:32:10 ◼   ► is I think one of the core questions of being a technology user and I think one of the core

00:32:14 ◼   ► things that we have been and should continue to talk about on this show, which is essentially

00:32:18 ◼   ► upgrade or not, right? And upgrades aren't always upgrades, right? Upgrades aren't always

00:32:26 ◼   ► what the people want. It's really interesting. Sometimes subscription stuff for companies

00:32:33 ◼   ► like Adobe, and Microsoft is doing this too, you could argue that that's a part of this

00:32:38 ◼   ► too, that in some ways potentially having a subscription service for your software could

00:32:43 ◼   ► allow you to escape from the "we're going to shove an upgrade at you every year or two

00:32:49 ◼   ► because we need the money" to this other model which is "look, just pay to use our software,

00:32:54 ◼   ► we'll keep updating it, you keep using it.

00:32:57 ◼   ► There's nice things about that.

00:32:59 ◼   ► There are also bad things like,

00:33:01 ◼   ► they just push you a new version.

00:33:03 ◼   ► You're like, whoa, wait, what happened to my old version?

00:33:06 ◼   ► And there's nothing you can do about it.

00:33:08 ◼   ► That can happen with some of that stuff,

00:33:10 ◼   ► especially web apps that happens like Google docs,

00:33:12 ◼   ► we've got a new version, but I liked your old version,

00:33:14 ◼   ► too bad it's gone.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Fascinating stuff.

00:33:17 ◼   ► - Let's go back to follow up.

00:33:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, a couple more quick follow up items

00:33:21 ◼   ► and then we'll jump into some of the other big topics

00:33:23 ◼   ► we've got. Listener Diane asked if anyone was considering that Apple could be

00:33:27 ◼   ► planning a magnetic charger like the Apple Watch is supposed to have,

00:33:31 ◼   ► and I think people, I've heard people talk about that, you know MagSafe is that,

00:33:36 ◼   ► though. MagSafe is the magnetic charger. It's smaller, I believe, than the one

00:33:41 ◼   ► that's on the Apple Watch. I don't know what's gonna happen, you know, I think

00:33:48 ◼   ► it's unlikely that there would be an induction-based charger on the MacBook

00:33:52 ◼   ► air I suppose it's possible but there are then you need to have a pad or

00:33:56 ◼   ► something to put it on I I don't feel like that's gonna be what what they're

00:34:02 ◼   ► gonna do so that's my quick answer I think what people are wondering with

00:34:06 ◼   ► that question is are they going to bypass that single USB for power

00:34:10 ◼   ► completely yeah I think that's the question right I don't think so no

00:34:13 ◼   ► neither do I because it one German probably would have found that out and

00:34:18 ◼   ► two I don't know where you put it like other people said what about on the

00:34:21 ◼   ► - The Apple logo, that would be a disaster.

00:34:24 ◼   ► That would just be a disaster.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Like there's no good would come of charging through

00:34:28 ◼   ► that little Apple logo there.

00:34:30 ◼   ► I can't see it working very well.

00:34:31 ◼   ► - No.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Let's see, Upgrading Zach wrote in,

00:34:36 ◼   ► identified himself as an Upgrading,

00:34:38 ◼   ► so definitely an Upgrading. - Good man, good man.

00:34:40 ◼   ► - And Diane, of course, is the one who suggested Upgrading

00:34:42 ◼   ► to us in the beginning, so she's an Upgrading, Diane.

00:34:45 ◼   ► Upgrading Zach says, "Do you guys think Apple would dump

00:34:49 ◼   ► "the 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Air

00:34:51 ◼   ► and replace them with both with the 12 inch.

00:34:53 ◼   ► My take on this is eventually,

00:34:57 ◼   ► I think that's probably what would happen,

00:34:59 ◼   ► but I don't think it would happen right away,

00:35:01 ◼   ► only because Apple seems to have had a lot of success

00:35:04 ◼   ► keeping old models around,

00:35:05 ◼   ► that you see the old iPhone models around.

00:35:07 ◼   ► And the way that works is every year

00:35:09 ◼   ► that a chip set is out there,

00:35:10 ◼   ► every year all those components are out there being used,

00:35:13 ◼   ► they've already, so they've set up the factory to build them.

00:35:16 ◼   ► So that's no cost, it's already there,

00:35:18 ◼   ► you just have to keep the lines running.

00:35:20 ◼   ► and the parts get cheaper over time.

00:35:23 ◼   ► So a product with a small product margin to begin with

00:35:28 ◼   ► can have a very large product margin later on in its life.

00:35:31 ◼   ► This is Ben Thompson just had a two-part interview

00:35:35 ◼   ► for Stratechery members about,

00:35:39 ◼   ► where he was talking to Hugo Barra,

00:35:40 ◼   ► who used to be working on Android

00:35:42 ◼   ► and now is at Xiaomi in China,

00:35:46 ◼   ► and he's the international VP or something.

00:35:48 ◼   ► But he was talking about this very phenomenon

00:35:53 ◼   ► that one of the ways that they are profitable

00:35:55 ◼   ► on their hardware is that they'll keep models around

00:35:57 ◼   ► for four or five years in different markets.

00:36:00 ◼   ► And after the first year, they get really profitable.

00:36:03 ◼   ► And Apple has done that with the iPhone.

00:36:06 ◼   ► The non Retina 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:36:08 ◼   ► is still being sold by Apple even now.

00:36:11 ◼   ► So my gut feeling is that the 11 and 13 Airs

00:36:14 ◼   ► will keep on for a while.

00:36:16 ◼   ► And that's why my gut feeling

00:36:18 ◼   ► is that the new 12 will be more expensive than the old Airs because it'll be retina

00:36:24 ◼   ► and they're not, and they'll be old tech so they'll be cheaper because they can cut the

00:36:29 ◼   ► prices and still keep their margins really high. So that's my gut feeling, is that they

00:36:35 ◼   ► will eventually fade away, but it will be a fade and not just a "they're gone." If I

00:36:41 ◼   ► had to guess, that would be my guess because that seems to make economic sense and it seems

00:36:46 ◼   ► to be a strategy that Apple really likes because that's their phone and iPad strategy too.

00:36:51 ◼   ► It didn't used to be this way but look at the current iPad line, it's the same thing,

00:36:55 ◼   ► right? They're all three versions of the iPad mini are still being sold. It's crazy.

00:37:02 ◼   ► Crazy!

00:37:03 ◼   ► I would like to give my punditry based on not as much knowledge as you have on these

00:37:09 ◼   ► I actually think that the 11 and 13 won't be called the Air anymore.

00:37:16 ◼   ► I foresee the 11 and 13 Air going away and the 11 and 13 as they are currently just become

00:37:22 ◼   ► the MacBooks and 12 takes the Air.

00:37:25 ◼   ► I like your way of thinking.

00:37:26 ◼   ► Because I don't see, if it is as thin as it is, they're not the same line anymore and

00:37:31 ◼   ► I think Apple are then showing that that 12-inch line is the future of a new product line like

00:37:36 ◼   ► they did with the Air in the first place and moved the Macbooks, you know, when they changed

00:37:40 ◼   ► all the names around over time, haven't they?

00:37:43 ◼   ► Like what's become MacBook has become MacBook Pro and that kind of thing.

00:37:46 ◼   ► So I foresee another shift in the naming again, so they end up with the Air line, the MacBook

00:37:51 ◼   ► line and the MacBook Pro line.

00:37:53 ◼   ► It's possible.

00:37:54 ◼   ► There's some confusion there, but if they intend, I would say I am on board with that

00:37:58 ◼   ► way of thinking if they intend to keep those products around in some form.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:02 ◼   ► - 11 and 13 would stay until then they can improve,

00:38:05 ◼   ► they can like stabilize the new air model,

00:38:08 ◼   ► make other iterations of that in different sizes

00:38:11 ◼   ► and then bump the 11 and 13 out again,

00:38:13 ◼   ► like they've done in the past.

00:38:15 ◼   ► Like we had the air, the MacBook and the MacBook Pro, right?

00:38:18 ◼   ► And then the MacBook doesn't exist anymore.

00:38:20 ◼   ► So I think it'd be a similar kind of thing.

00:38:22 ◼   ► So they'll bump them up and then when they can get rid

00:38:24 ◼   ► of those, they'll remove them.

00:38:25 ◼   ► - We'll see.

00:38:26 ◼   ► I'm intrigued.

00:38:28 ◼   ► That's a nice bit of punditry.

00:38:30 ◼   ► Well done.

00:38:31 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Unfortunately, we're not keeping score.

00:38:36 ◼   ► One last bit of feedback, which was listener Joe, who said, "If I'm Mac and iOS only, is

00:38:45 ◼   ► there any reason to use 1Password over just using iCloud Keychain?"

00:38:50 ◼   ► Really good one.

00:38:52 ◼   ► Without going into too much detail, because that could be a whole other topic, I think

00:38:56 ◼   ► iCloud Keychain is good, and I think it's better than nothing.

00:39:01 ◼   ► I've already invested in 1Password, so I feel like I want to keep going with that, but the

00:39:05 ◼   ► reasons are it is more flexible.

00:39:09 ◼   ► I believe iCloud Keychain only works on Safari on the Mac, is that right, Myke?

00:39:15 ◼   ► Yeah, it doesn't work in Chrome on the iPhone, for example.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Well yeah, but on the Mac, does it work?

00:39:21 ◼   ► Or just in Safari?

00:39:22 ◼   ► I'm not 100% sure about that.

00:39:24 ◼   ► I'm going to say it does, actually.

00:39:25 ◼   ► I'm going to say it does.

00:39:26 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:39:27 ◼   ► Alright, okay.

00:39:28 ◼   ► I've made that up.

00:39:29 ◼   ► I'll find out.

00:39:30 ◼   ► browsers on iOS it doesn't work and it has a great feature where if you

00:39:36 ◼   ► sync your 1Password on Dropbox you can actually access inside the

00:39:45 ◼   ► 1Password bundle is an HTML file that you can open in a web browser and you can

00:39:51 ◼   ► put in your password and you can use 1Password with just access to the file

00:39:55 ◼   ► and no software at all, which is awesome. It supports for multiple accounts on sites.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Apple's iCloud keychain is kind of brain dead. It's really really good for one

00:40:07 ◼   ► login but if you have more than one login it's not so good. It's also if it

00:40:12 ◼   ► doesn't work on a particular site you're just out of luck whereas with one

00:40:15 ◼   ► password you can actually go in and edit which fields you want to have it be

00:40:18 ◼   ► saved and then it'll work. It's an extra layer of security because when you

00:40:24 ◼   ► unlock your phone and are using Safari,

00:40:26 ◼   ► iCloud Keychain will work.

00:40:28 ◼   ► Whereas with 1Password, you have to enter in another password

00:40:31 ◼   ► in order to get it.

00:40:31 ◼   ► I'd say iCloud Keychain is really great to have around

00:40:34 ◼   ► and I use it for some things.

00:40:35 ◼   ► I've got something saved in iCloud Keychain

00:40:37 ◼   ► and I just don't even have to bring up 1Password

00:40:39 ◼   ► in those instances.

00:40:40 ◼   ► I can be like, yeah, iCloud Keychain, great.

00:40:43 ◼   ► But it's a typical story of Apple doing a feature

00:40:46 ◼   ► that is really nice and friendly and broad.

00:40:49 ◼   ► And if you're using the very base set of features,

00:40:52 ◼   ► it's good enough.

00:40:53 ◼   ► and if you want to go beyond that then that's where the third parties are strong.

00:40:58 ◼   ► I found a Chrome support document

00:41:00 ◼   ► that says on a Mac Google Chrome uses the keychain access to store your login

00:41:05 ◼   ► information.

00:41:06 ◼   ► I don't know if it's pulling from it but at least it stores there.

00:41:09 ◼   ► I think for me with with one password the other thing is I feel like I have more

00:41:12 ◼   ► visibility of what's actually in there.

00:41:14 ◼   ► I find the iCloud keychain to be a little bit

00:41:19 ◼   ► more hazy and it doesn't really have an update.

00:41:21 ◼   ► UI, you've got the keychain assistant,

00:41:25 ◼   ► keychain access and all that.

00:41:26 ◼   ► And yeah, I mean, it's again,

00:41:28 ◼   ► Apple is trying to keep it simple and faceless

00:41:30 ◼   ► and when it works, it's fine.

00:41:32 ◼   ► As long as you're always on iOS or Mac.

00:41:35 ◼   ► - Keychain shouldn't do any more than it already does.

00:41:38 ◼   ► It does everything it should be doing in my opinion.

00:41:40 ◼   ► And then if you want more, you go one password.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Same as like reading list,

00:41:43 ◼   ► like it does the bare minimum.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And then if you want more.

00:41:47 ◼   ► There was one thing I wanted to mention, Jason,

00:41:49 ◼   ► it's not really a follow up, but I saw it today

00:41:51 ◼   ► and I thought it might interest you, Mac user in the UK

00:41:54 ◼   ► is closing its doors, the magazine.

00:41:55 ◼   ► - Indeed, yeah.

00:41:57 ◼   ► - Now I know that Mac user in the US,

00:41:59 ◼   ► is Mac user in the US affected, do you know?

00:42:01 ◼   ► - Mac user in the US doesn't exist.

00:42:03 ◼   ► Mac user in the UK was the only Mac user remaining.

00:42:05 ◼   ► I started my career in Mac user.

00:42:07 ◼   ► What happened is Ziff Davis licensed the name

00:42:10 ◼   ► outside of the UK from Dennis Publishing in the UK.

00:42:14 ◼   ► And so all the other Mac users around the world

00:42:18 ◼   ► were Ziff Davis.

00:42:19 ◼   ► when Ziff Davis and IDG got together and merged MacUser into MacWorld, all the MacUsers went

00:42:24 ◼   ► away except for MacUserUK.

00:42:28 ◼   ► So MacUserUK, it's actually the reason why MacWorld in the UK gives stars instead of

00:42:35 ◼   ► mice.

00:42:36 ◼   ► It's because the mouse rating originated with MacUser.

00:42:39 ◼   ► Whereas MacWorld in the US, when it took over MacUser, decided to keep the mice around instead

00:42:45 ◼   ► of the stars just because it was a little more distinctive and there were enough of

00:42:48 ◼   ► us who are from MacUser who are like, "Come on, use the mouse, use the mouse!" Mouse and

00:42:52 ◼   ► the Eddie Awards stuck around even though those were originally from MacUser.

00:42:55 ◼   ► That must be a little bit sad then, to see MacUser completely shut its doors now.

00:43:01 ◼   ► It is, it's the last thing with that name. And so that is sad. It's a very similar story

00:43:08 ◼   ► to the one that I told about IDG, which is, like IDG, Dennis Publishing was run by an

00:43:14 ◼   ► iconoclastic billionaire who did what he wanted and who passed away. I mean,

00:43:19 ◼   ► Felix Dennis, quite more, uh, uh, of a character,

00:43:25 ◼   ► an outsized character than Pat McGovern. Um, but, uh,

00:43:29 ◼   ► same story, which is he passed away and, uh,

00:43:32 ◼   ► and they're running the business differently and whether that directly impacted

00:43:35 ◼   ► the shutting down of Mac user. My gut feeling is that like Pat McGovern,

00:43:39 ◼   ► it was more difficult to get rid of some of the long-standing products with the founder

00:43:45 ◼   ► around than when the founder was gone. But it is sad some great people worked there and

00:43:50 ◼   ► some great people came out of there over the last 20 years. I first got to know Ian Betteridge

00:43:55 ◼   ► when he was doing MacUser and it's a shame. MacWorld UK, as far as I know, is still going

00:44:01 ◼   ► strong which is great and I hope to be over there in March and actually visit with those

00:44:08 ◼   ► guys.

00:44:08 ◼   ► But not you? No. Well maybe you.

00:44:12 ◼   ► Well if I'm not seeing you at Ool

00:44:17 ◼   ► in Ireland then I will try to see you in London.

00:44:20 ◼   ► One of those things will happen. Maybe we'll do an upgrade, live upgrade.

00:44:24 ◼   ► Wouldn't that be something, an in-person version of upgrade? We haven't done that yet.

00:44:27 ◼   ► We haven't done that yet. Jason would you like to thank a friend before we get into some topics

00:44:32 ◼   ► an hour in?

00:44:33 ◼   ► Is that your way of saying that I am thanking the friend personally?

00:44:36 ◼   ► Yeah. Okay, well then in that case it must be mail route.

00:44:40 ◼   ► You bet it is. I'm happy to thank my friends at mail route.

00:44:43 ◼   ► I like to thank them frequently because

00:44:47 ◼   ► when I open my mail and there's not spam in it, one of the big reasons why is

00:44:51 ◼   ► because I use mail route.

00:44:53 ◼   ► If you can imagine this crazy world that I live in, there's no spam, no viruses, no

00:44:58 ◼   ► bounced email messages. I open my mail

00:45:00 ◼   ► and I only see legitimate mail, the stuff that I want to see

00:45:03 ◼   ► and that's because of mail route.

00:45:05 ◼   ► Mail route isn't hardware, it isn't software,

00:45:08 ◼   ► it is a cloud service.

00:45:09 ◼   ► So it sits between your mail and the big bad internet

00:45:13 ◼   ► and it takes the mail in, it uses its intelligent filters

00:45:16 ◼   ► to figure out what spam and what's virus and what's bounces,

00:45:20 ◼   ► it filters that stuff out and then it passes

00:45:21 ◼   ► all the other mail along to your mail server.

00:45:24 ◼   ► So for a while I was running my own mail server

00:45:27 ◼   ► in my house over my own internet line

00:45:30 ◼   ► and every spam message that came in

00:45:32 ◼   ► was slowing down my internet line

00:45:34 ◼   ► and mail route stopped that, which was awesome.

00:45:37 ◼   ► And I still use to this day,

00:45:38 ◼   ► it is really good at filtering out just the bad stuff

00:45:42 ◼   ► and letting the good stuff through.

00:45:43 ◼   ► They've got a digest they sent me every day

00:45:45 ◼   ► that says everything that they filtered out

00:45:47 ◼   ► and there's a one click hyperlink in that message

00:45:51 ◼   ► so that I can auto deliver and whitelist any messages

00:45:54 ◼   ► that happened to be marked as spam but weren't.

00:45:57 ◼   ► And that doesn't happen very often.

00:45:58 ◼   ► They're just very good at keeping the good stuff good

00:46:03 ◼   ► and the bad stuff bad.

00:46:04 ◼   ► If you are an email administrator or an IT professional,

00:46:07 ◼   ► you'll be happy to know that MailRoute

00:46:09 ◼   ► will work great for you.

00:46:10 ◼   ► They've got an API for easy account management.

00:46:12 ◼   ► They support LDAP, Active Directory, TLS, Outbound Relay,

00:46:16 ◼   ► Myke's favorite, which is mail bagging.

00:46:18 ◼   ► - Mail bagging.

00:46:19 ◼   ► - Everything you want from the people handling your mail.

00:46:21 ◼   ► Remove spam from your life for good.

00:46:23 ◼   ► Go to mailroute.net/upgrade.

00:46:25 ◼   ► You'll get a free trial.

00:46:26 ◼   ► You can try this out without paying them anything.

00:46:28 ◼   ► And if you use mailroute.net/upgrade, you can sign up for 10% off,

00:46:34 ◼   ► and that's 10% off the lifetime of your account with MailRoute.

00:46:37 ◼   ► It's not a temporary thing, it is the lifetime of your time with MailRoute.

00:46:41 ◼   ► So thank you so much to MailRoute for filtering out my spam and sponsoring upgrade.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Thank you, MailRoute.

00:46:48 ◼   ► And a good friend.

00:46:50 ◼   ► So Jason, you did something really interesting this past week.

00:46:55 ◼   ► Uh-oh.

00:46:56 ◼   ► You went into full-on video production mode at Six Colors HQ. Multiple cameras and everything.

00:47:02 ◼   ► Tell me about why you wanted to do this and what the article is about.

00:47:07 ◼   ► I think my children would dispute the idea that I'm a YouTuber, but I did post... I got some work

00:47:14 ◼   ► to do to be a YouTuber. But I did post a video... This isn't new for me. I have actually done multi-camera

00:47:20 ◼   ► video stuff all by myself before for the various Macworld how-to videos that we did over the years

00:47:27 ◼   ► and actually for a lot of the stuff that I did under NDA, you know, new Apple products,

00:47:32 ◼   ► they would say, you'd sign this NDA that said, we talked about this in episode one, in fact,

00:47:36 ◼   ► they signed these NDA saying nobody but your, you know, you can show it to your family, but they

00:47:41 ◼   ► they are also under the NDA and you can't show it to anybody else. It's just you. At your whole

00:47:46 ◼   ► editorial organization, it's just you, which is kind of ridiculous because you got to have editors

00:47:50 ◼   ► and you know there's planning and all of that but that was what the NDA was and

00:47:54 ◼   ► so I would sometimes do these videos where I was setting up two cameras and I

00:47:57 ◼   ► was editing it myself and I was doing all the technical stuff and shooting it

00:48:01 ◼   ► and editing it and then I post it and and simultaneous with me posting this

00:48:04 ◼   ► completely homemade video about the iPhone 4 or something there'd be on on

00:48:09 ◼   ► the D site at the time also all things digital there would be a Walt

00:48:14 ◼   ► Mossberg video where he was like clearly in the studio with a bunch of cameras

00:48:19 ◼   ► and that there was obviously a whole technical staff who put this together

00:48:22 ◼   ► because I'm telling you Walt didn't edit that himself and I was like God Walt

00:48:25 ◼   ► Mossberg it was like he was he was uh he was going a little bit beyond this the

00:48:31 ◼   ► the letter of the NDA but at the same time I was happy to do it because I do

00:48:36 ◼   ► know how to edit a video if I have to so so I've done that in the past and I want

00:48:42 ◼   ► to do more of that I would like to do regular videos on six colors if I can

00:48:46 ◼   ► find reasons to do them, I will do them. So I did one about CarPlay. I followed Marco

00:48:52 ◼   ► Armentz's lead and he bought a CarPlay unit for testing overcast because he wanted to

00:48:59 ◼   ► do overcast on CarPlay. And the way he did it was he bought a unit on Amazon, I think,

00:49:05 ◼   ► and bought a couple of adapters so that he could just run it on his desk and not put

00:49:10 ◼   ► it in a car. And so that's what I did. I bought a Pioneer CarPlay doubled in head unit on

00:49:19 ◼   ► Amazon and I bought a couple of those same adapters that Margot recommended and plugged

00:49:25 ◼   ► it in and got to use CarPlay and then decided I would do a video because there are not that

00:49:30 ◼   ► many, there are some, but there are not that many CarPlay videos and most of them date

00:49:34 ◼   ► back to the fall and I wanted to give my readers a view of what CarPlay looks like today, because

00:49:44 ◼   ► I think it's still a little mysterious. And I figured not enough people are writing about

00:49:48 ◼   ► or talking about CarPlay and by having a CarPlay unit in my house I can stay up on it if I

00:49:55 ◼   ► need to. And if this becomes a thing at all I will be able to write about new stuff that

00:50:00 ◼   ► happens with CarPlay, so I figured it was worth the 500 bucks or something I had

00:50:03 ◼   ► to pay to buy the hardware. So I made a video which required me to...

00:50:09 ◼   ► that was a challenge. I ended up with a camera shooting me on a tripod, that

00:50:15 ◼   ► was fine, but to get a camera in position to shoot the screen with the CarPlay

00:50:20 ◼   ► interface on it was tricky. I ended up with an iPhone on a tripod and had

00:50:30 ◼   ► that like on my keyboard tray pointing at the at the screen of the of the CarPlay

00:50:34 ◼   ► thing. CarPlay looks like a disaster. I don't recommend it to anyone. No it looks

00:50:43 ◼   ► like a total mess. Yeah. Like so what if you haven't already go and watch the

00:50:49 ◼   ► video I loved it as a video by the way because I am more I like to see that

00:50:54 ◼   ► kind of thing and rather than just read it. So good. Six minutes of a guy pushing

00:50:59 ◼   ► buttons on a touch screen.

00:51:01 ◼   ► Woo!

00:51:02 ◼   ► Yep.

00:51:03 ◼   ► - So just, you can go over to our show notes,

00:51:05 ◼   ► relay.fm/upgrade/19, you'll see it in there.

00:51:07 ◼   ► You can go watch the video.

00:51:08 ◼   ► - And that's where I am right now.

00:51:09 ◼   ► That is Six Colors World Headquarters, I'm not kidding.

00:51:11 ◼   ► That is the corner of my office with the microphone

00:51:13 ◼   ► I'm talking into right now and everything.

00:51:15 ◼   ► So if you want to completely ruin your vision

00:51:18 ◼   ► of how I do this show, watch that video.

00:51:21 ◼   ► - Perfect.

00:51:22 ◼   ► It seems like the only app on the entire system

00:51:28 ◼   ► that looks and kinda works the way you'd want it to

00:51:31 ◼   ► is probably maps.

00:51:32 ◼   ► - Is maps, yeah.

00:51:33 ◼   ► - Everything else, it looked buggy.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Like even like the phone, like Siri just didn't work,

00:51:39 ◼   ► it seemed like for some of it.

00:51:40 ◼   ► Like you were trying to call your wife, right?

00:51:43 ◼   ► And I noticed that you cut the video

00:51:46 ◼   ► because it looked like Siri was just not understanding.

00:51:49 ◼   ► It was like, what number would you like?

00:51:50 ◼   ► And it'd be like, oh, and it'd be like,

00:51:52 ◼   ► I don't know what the phone is.

00:51:53 ◼   ► - I think in the video I just tapped the screen,

00:51:55 ◼   ► I'm like, forget it.

00:51:56 ◼   ► - You're just like, just go away.

00:51:58 ◼   ► Well, there's a timing issue with Siri a lot of the time where it beeps maybe a little

00:52:04 ◼   ► late and you're trying to say it and so it missed it and then by the time you say it

00:52:08 ◼   ► again it's given up and so you end up in this really... if you get the timing wrong with

00:52:13 ◼   ► Siri it can get really frustrating.

00:52:16 ◼   ► And you mentioned you show the messages and you're dictating a message.

00:52:19 ◼   ► Why can I not just use the audio feature?

00:52:21 ◼   ► Like, just record an audio and send that?

00:52:24 ◼   ► That one completely baffles me, is that they put in this audio messages thing in iOS 8

00:52:31 ◼   ► and CarPlay doesn't support it, which would seem to be the best way to communicate in

00:52:36 ◼   ► the car, is that you could send an audio message to somebody and then if they wanted to send

00:52:40 ◼   ► text back to you, at least as an option, I don't know how the interface works to say

00:52:44 ◼   ► I prefer, you know, maybe Siri says you want to send this person an audio message because

00:52:48 ◼   ► I think Siri knows whether it's compatible or not.

00:52:53 ◼   ► But it would be, yeah, I don't understand why.

00:52:56 ◼   ► 'Cause that would be much easier for me to just say,

00:52:59 ◼   ► "Hey, Myke, I'm headed over, I'll be there in 20 minutes,"

00:53:04 ◼   ► and have it just send my audio of me saying that.

00:53:07 ◼   ► And then if you want to reply,

00:53:08 ◼   ► it would just, I'd just hear your voice.

00:53:09 ◼   ► And it's not, it doesn't do that.

00:53:11 ◼   ► It's all text to speech, speech to text.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Just that's, yeah, it feels like it's old Siri.

00:53:18 ◼   ► It actually, Gruber was writing about how he feels like Siri's gotten a lot better lately,

00:53:22 ◼   ► and I agree.

00:53:24 ◼   ► When I use CarPlay, I feel like, "Oh, this is how Siri used to be."

00:53:28 ◼   ► It feels like old Siri.

00:53:29 ◼   ► It doesn't feel like better Siri.

00:53:31 ◼   ► It feels like it feels more laggy, and maybe that's just because it's going through the

00:53:37 ◼   ► CarPlay interface.

00:53:38 ◼   ► I had some people ask me also, "Could it just be that the Pioneer unit is lousy, not the

00:53:42 ◼   ► CarPlay is lousy?"

00:53:43 ◼   ► And my understanding is that what's happening is the iPhone is projecting CarPlay onto the

00:53:48 ◼   ► the Pioneer unit. So the Pioneer head unit is responsible for perhaps the scrolling being

00:53:55 ◼   ► laggy and certainly for the touchscreen not being great and sometimes mistaking scrolls

00:54:01 ◼   ► for taps and things like that. But I think everything else is the fault of iOS. Everything

00:54:07 ◼   ► else I think is coming from the phone. I had a couple people say to me, "Oh, I found it

00:54:12 ◼   ► works a lot better. Third party apps work a lot better when you turn off the phone and

00:54:16 ◼   ► then turn it back on. I'm like, okay, one, that's terrible.

00:54:19 ◼   ► - As a thing to help, like in the car,

00:54:22 ◼   ► while you're driving, it's the worst possible thing.

00:54:25 ◼   ► - And two, I tried it and it didn't help.

00:54:27 ◼   ► I think it made the iHeartRadio app menu come up

00:54:30 ◼   ► the first time, but then it still crashed.

00:54:32 ◼   ► And in the video, you get to hear me crash Overcast.

00:54:36 ◼   ► I believe while playing ATP, that's extra funny,

00:54:40 ◼   ► but certainly it crashes Overcast while I'm using it.

00:54:44 ◼   ► and it just sort of sputters to a stop

00:54:46 ◼   ► and then goes back to the main screen.

00:54:48 ◼   ► - It started to sound all like distorted

00:54:50 ◼   ► and then Overcast just like exploded.

00:54:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, the third party apps are,

00:54:54 ◼   ► I, if it only happened on one of them,

00:54:57 ◼   ► I would say, okay, this, you know,

00:54:58 ◼   ► Marco or the iHeartRadio people didn't do a very good job

00:55:01 ◼   ► with their first iteration of it,

00:55:03 ◼   ► but they're both really buggy.

00:55:04 ◼   ► So as far as I can tell,

00:55:05 ◼   ► the third party apps thing is still a mess.

00:55:07 ◼   ► Apple's website lists all of these third party apps

00:55:10 ◼   ► that are supported by CarPlay.

00:55:11 ◼   ► And I could only find like two or three

00:55:13 ◼   ► that actually work on CarPlay.

00:55:15 ◼   ► They've got like Beats music.

00:55:16 ◼   ► It's on CarPlay.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Nope, nope, it's not.

00:55:19 ◼   ► It's not.

00:55:20 ◼   ► And it makes me think,

00:55:22 ◼   ► it makes me think that this is a problem

00:55:24 ◼   ► and there's not a lot of scrutiny

00:55:25 ◼   ► being put on CarPlay right now

00:55:27 ◼   ► so they can get away with it.

00:55:28 ◼   ► But it's just not fully baked.

00:55:30 ◼   ► I think the third party stuff is a mess.

00:55:31 ◼   ► I've asked Marco a couple of times.

00:55:33 ◼   ► I sent him some emails saying,

00:55:35 ◼   ► "I'm seeing lots of problems with CarPlay

00:55:37 ◼   ► and I haven't gotten a response from him.

00:55:38 ◼   ► I wonder if that's one of those,

00:55:40 ◼   ► you know, can't say something nice,

00:55:42 ◼   ► don't say anything at all, but I don't blame him

00:55:45 ◼   ► or the iHeartRadio developers.

00:55:46 ◼   ► I feel like the third-party stuff is really half-baked

00:55:51 ◼   ► like from CarPlay as far as I can tell, it's all unstable.

00:55:55 ◼   ► And then the main CarPlay stuff isn't great.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Maps is the best one.

00:55:58 ◼   ► I do feel like this is a little bit,

00:56:03 ◼   ► oh, I should say I didn't wire in the parking brake,

00:56:06 ◼   ► which I need to do because the interface

00:56:08 ◼   ► is slightly different.

00:56:09 ◼   ► That was the while driving interface.

00:56:11 ◼   ► there is a more full interface,

00:56:14 ◼   ► like a keyboard will come up and stuff if you're parked.

00:56:17 ◼   ► But that's wired into the parking brake

00:56:21 ◼   ► and you can actually buy something on Amazon

00:56:23 ◼   ► that overrides that and that's for people

00:56:24 ◼   ► who wanna watch videos while they're driving, I guess,

00:56:26 ◼   ► which is very dangerous and don't do that,

00:56:27 ◼   ► but you can do that.

00:56:29 ◼   ► So I may buy one of those and wire it in

00:56:31 ◼   ► just to do what I need to do to test this stuff.

00:56:35 ◼   ► But the larger point is that, yeah,

00:56:37 ◼   ► the Maps app feels exactly like what I want it to be,

00:56:40 ◼   ► which is, oh, this is maps in a dashboard context.

00:56:45 ◼   ► That's actually kind of great.

00:56:46 ◼   ► I like that a lot.

00:56:47 ◼   ► The rest of it, not so much.

00:56:49 ◼   ► Like the music app even,

00:56:50 ◼   ► it seems like there are no concessions to long lists.

00:56:54 ◼   ► You've got this little tiny screen

00:56:56 ◼   ► and you can't do the ABCD down the side.

00:57:00 ◼   ► You just have a list that you have to scroll through.

00:57:02 ◼   ► And like on my Honda Odyssey minivan that we have,

00:57:06 ◼   ► that's about four years old,

00:57:08 ◼   ► it's got an iPod interface

00:57:09 ◼   ► and it's just got a click wheel basically

00:57:12 ◼   ► to connect to the iPod,

00:57:14 ◼   ► but it's got on its little crappy slow interface,

00:57:16 ◼   ► it has this A to Z mode where you,

00:57:18 ◼   ► if you have a list of 500 artists

00:57:22 ◼   ► 'cause you have a device

00:57:24 ◼   ► with lots of storage capacity attached,

00:57:26 ◼   ► you can go A to Z

00:57:28 ◼   ► and basically you can scroll through the letters

00:57:30 ◼   ► till you get to the letter where your artist is.

00:57:32 ◼   ► And then you click and then it shows you all the artists

00:57:35 ◼   ► starting with that letter.

00:57:36 ◼   ► And it's a way to jump down in the list

00:57:38 ◼   ► even though you don't have the interface for it

00:57:41 ◼   ► because you could never scroll through that.

00:57:43 ◼   ► There are very few, if any, concessions

00:57:46 ◼   ► to that kind of thing in this interface.

00:57:48 ◼   ► It just seems really rudimentary.

00:57:50 ◼   ► And yeah, I would, I haven't put it in my car

00:57:56 ◼   ► and I'm not going to.

00:57:56 ◼   ► I've got a Sony Bluetooth stereo in there

00:58:00 ◼   ► that I bought a few years ago.

00:58:02 ◼   ► And I can, you know, my phone is paired with it

00:58:04 ◼   ► and I can pause and press the back button

00:58:07 ◼   ► and press the forward button and move around in podcasts,

00:58:09 ◼   ► and it's fine.

00:58:11 ◼   ► And it will not show me anything

00:58:14 ◼   ► 'cause it doesn't have a video screen on it,

00:58:16 ◼   ► but it will play the audio of my turn-by-turn navigation,

00:58:19 ◼   ► and it's good enough.

00:58:20 ◼   ► And CarPlay for these expensive units, it's just not ready.

00:58:24 ◼   ► I think it's actually good for all concerned

00:58:26 ◼   ► that there are only a few devices that support this,

00:58:29 ◼   ► and there are very few cars currently that have it,

00:58:31 ◼   ► because it doesn't feel like it's a finished product.

00:58:35 ◼   ► CarPlay's one thing, the one thing that it is intended to do is to stop distracting you.

00:58:43 ◼   ► The idea of it existing is to provide an interface that doesn't distract and allows you to focus

00:58:49 ◼   ► and concentrate on driving.

00:58:51 ◼   ► So stability and ease of usability needs to be at the fore.

00:58:57 ◼   ► And your video shows that that's actually gonna be firm from the truth.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Because some of the things that you would want to do, like using the voice memo stuff

00:59:07 ◼   ► to send messages, is less distracting than dictating and listening and having it fail.

00:59:14 ◼   ► And stability kind of needs to be key.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Maybe there shouldn't be third-party apps at all on CarPlay, if this is the case right

00:59:22 ◼   ► now.

00:59:23 ◼   ► Especially if they're allowing them in one at a time.

00:59:25 ◼   ► They should be really scrutinized.

00:59:29 ◼   ► What you want is, I mean there definitely need to be third party apps because the Apple

00:59:35 ◼   ► apps don't, you want access to different music services and you want access to different

00:59:40 ◼   ► audio stuff and you maybe want access to different information like different driving things,

00:59:47 ◼   ► right?

00:59:48 ◼   ► Like I could see them allowing Waze and Google Maps on and I could see them allowing Beats

00:59:53 ◼   ► and Pandora and Rhapsody and all the music services on there like iHeartRadio and podcast

01:00:00 ◼   ► players like Overcast. That kind of makes sense. As an Overcast user, I don't want to

01:00:07 ◼   ► have to use the podcast app for my podcasts because I don't. And I'm not going to go back

01:00:12 ◼   ► to the podcast app just so I can play different podcasts in my car than the ones I'm playing

01:00:17 ◼   ► when I'm not in my car using Overcast and I'm not going to abandon Overcast. So having

01:00:21 ◼   ► the third-party stuff in there could be good. Major League Baseball is supposed to be one

01:00:25 ◼   ► of the partners. Again, it's not actually, at least they're not in the season now, so

01:00:28 ◼   ► they have an excuse. But that's one of those things that I've wanted. I've wanted a Major

01:00:32 ◼   ► League Baseball display in my car for a long time. I keep thinking that would be a great

01:00:36 ◼   ► use because they could have like a scoreboard and you could tap on a game and it would play

01:00:41 ◼   ► the audio and maybe put up a little like simplified status of like here's what the score is and

01:00:46 ◼   ► here's who's batting, something that is not super distracting

01:00:49 ◼   ► but adds some information.

01:00:51 ◼   ► And those are good uses of it.

01:00:53 ◼   ► But right now, it's interesting too

01:00:55 ◼   ► because I have not used Android Auto,

01:00:57 ◼   ► but it's fascinating to see that with Android Auto,

01:01:00 ◼   ► Google is trying to, it looks like make a more

01:01:05 ◼   ► dense set of interface elements

01:01:10 ◼   ► than what Apple is using, which is super simplified.

01:01:12 ◼   ► and as a user, I like the idea that Google is going in

01:01:17 ◼   ► where it's a little more refined.

01:01:21 ◼   ► I understand as somebody who wants to not get

01:01:24 ◼   ► in a car crash, maybe Apple's approach is better.

01:01:28 ◼   ► But it's problematic, let's just say that.

01:01:31 ◼   ► I find it funny that this is supposed to be the solution

01:01:33 ◼   ► to bad UI from car entertainment infotainment manufacturers

01:01:42 ◼   ► and yet here's Apple with something that's kinda bad.

01:01:45 ◼   ► That's fascinating to me.

01:01:47 ◼   ► I guess the car is a harder problem

01:01:49 ◼   ► than maybe they thought it was.

01:01:51 ◼   ► - Basically, I think my kind of view on this

01:01:57 ◼   ► is Google is better placed than Apple

01:02:00 ◼   ► to understand how to develop for hardware

01:02:02 ◼   ► they don't control.

01:02:03 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, the way Apple is doing it is they are,

01:02:09 ◼   ► I mean, they're mandating,

01:02:10 ◼   ► Like the CarPlay window is always the same size

01:02:12 ◼   ► and there are two approaches,

01:02:14 ◼   ► which is touchscreen approach or button-based approach

01:02:17 ◼   ► that you can use.

01:02:18 ◼   ► And it's gotta have a microphone input

01:02:20 ◼   ► and it's gotta have audio output.

01:02:21 ◼   ► And so they, it is, I don't think that's the problem.

01:02:25 ◼   ► Again, I don't love the touchscreen on this Pioneer unit.

01:02:29 ◼   ► It's poor.

01:02:30 ◼   ► And using an Apple created interface on a touchscreen

01:02:34 ◼   ► that reacts the way it does is a weird experience.

01:02:36 ◼   ► And that is something that they're gonna have to learn.

01:02:39 ◼   ► and that it may reflect poorly on them.

01:02:42 ◼   ► But all the other issues that I'm having seem to stem back to,

01:02:47 ◼   ► they stem from Apple's own software

01:02:53 ◼   ► and their own decisions about this.

01:02:55 ◼   ► And like I said, this is like a stealth product in a way.

01:02:58 ◼   ► I think people aren't even talking about it.

01:03:00 ◼   ► In fact, probably whoever is working on CarPlay at Apple

01:03:02 ◼   ► saw my thing and it's like,

01:03:03 ◼   ► "Oh, why are they writing about CarPlay now?

01:03:05 ◼   ► Stop, someone's written about CarPlay."

01:03:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:03:09 ◼   ► - There's like an alarm went off somewhere.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's just, you know, it's below the radar.

01:03:13 ◼   ► But, you know, I was really excited when Marco talked

01:03:17 ◼   ► about how he was building a third party app.

01:03:18 ◼   ► It's like, well, that's really interesting.

01:03:19 ◼   ► I should get on this.

01:03:20 ◼   ► And now I've seen the third party apps.

01:03:21 ◼   ► I'm like, oh my God, it's not good.

01:03:23 ◼   ► It's not good.

01:03:24 ◼   ► So it was fun to do it.

01:03:26 ◼   ► I put it off.

01:03:27 ◼   ► I got that CarPlay unit in December

01:03:29 ◼   ► and I just, I put it off for a while

01:03:31 ◼   ► because I was traveling.

01:03:32 ◼   ► And also just because the first time I used it,

01:03:34 ◼   ► I was like, oh my God, this is awful.

01:03:36 ◼   ► And I had to think about it for a while.

01:03:37 ◼   ► and I wanted to get some other third party apps

01:03:39 ◼   ► and finally I had to do it.

01:03:40 ◼   ► So if nothing else, the video will give you an idea

01:03:44 ◼   ► of what this thing is without having

01:03:46 ◼   ► to actually see it in person.

01:03:47 ◼   ► And that's why I did a video,

01:03:49 ◼   ► because I feel like even taking pictures of the screen

01:03:52 ◼   ► would not do it justice,

01:03:53 ◼   ► that you really needed to sort of see

01:03:54 ◼   ► how the interactions worked.

01:03:56 ◼   ► And I'll do a follow up at some point

01:03:57 ◼   ► with if I can find a way to enable the features

01:04:02 ◼   ► that you have to have the parking brake on,

01:04:05 ◼   ► stopped, you know, when stopped features. If I can figure out how to enable that,

01:04:09 ◼   ► and there's something substantial there, I'll try to do an update.

01:04:13 ◼   ► I don't want to install it in my car and I also, when GPS apps started to

01:04:19 ◼   ► come out for the iPhone, I did a video that I shot in my car driving around and

01:04:23 ◼   ► it was so painful to do that that I don't want to make videos in my car

01:04:29 ◼   ► if I can help it. So I'd rather have it be sitting on my desk.

01:04:32 ◼   ► Podcast is in cars, testing carplay.

01:04:36 ◼   ► Exactly. Especially if I had camera people it would be different but

01:04:41 ◼   ► you know like I said I shoot most of these videos by myself and so I was

01:04:45 ◼   ► trying to figure out how you could lock down a camera somewhere and actually get

01:04:48 ◼   ► a picture of the phone doing the thing when you're going over bumps and the

01:04:55 ◼   ► cameras are jostling or falling off where you had them tied up and it was

01:04:59 ◼   ► yeah it was it was I don't want to do that plus I don't really you know I was

01:05:03 ◼   ► really in love with it I would put it in my car because I would think oh it's so

01:05:06 ◼   ► cool and I don't want it in my car I just don't I don't want carplay in my

01:05:10 ◼   ► car I won't call our desk play okay keep it at that yeah yeah Jason would you

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01:05:33 ◼   ► for your small business, it can seem like a no win situation

01:05:37 ◼   ► because you go to the post office, it takes up time.

01:05:39 ◼   ► If you're not available during post office hours,

01:05:43 ◼   ► you're kind of stuck.

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01:05:59 ◼   ► But I can, you buy and print official US postage

01:06:02 ◼   ► for any letter or package right from your desk

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01:06:46 ◼   ► Before you do anything else, click on the microphone

01:06:48 ◼   ► at the top of the homepage and type in upgrade.

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01:06:54 ◼   ► enter upgrade and then you'll get access to the special deal

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01:06:59 ◼   ► And I've sent a package with stamps.com.

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01:07:18 ◼   ► and my sincere apologies to Myke because the queen is mean

01:07:22 ◼   ► and will not let him send things with Stamps.com.

01:07:24 ◼   ► - It makes me sad, but I'm happy that Stamps.com

01:07:28 ◼   ► is allowing me to receive gifts, so.

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01:07:31 ◼   ► - Can't argue with that.

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01:07:39 ◼   ► - Wow, I am excited.

01:07:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know.

01:07:42 ◼   ► - So there's been an interesting,

01:07:46 ◼   ► I don't know, trend, I don't know about trend,

01:07:50 ◼   ► but there's a couple of articles this week about app sales.

01:07:54 ◼   ► So the guys at US2Games released a really interesting

01:07:58 ◼   ► infographic about what's happened with Monument Valley

01:08:03 ◼   ► kind of sales-wise and revenue-wise.

01:08:06 ◼   ► And then Marco posted a fantastic piece on his blog

01:08:09 ◼   ► about how Overcast has fared in 2014.

01:08:15 ◼   ► So I was interested, Jason,

01:08:17 ◼   ► 'cause I know that you linked to Marco's piece.

01:08:19 ◼   ► there may be more to say about Marco's piece in our world than the Monument

01:08:24 ◼   ► Valley. However, if you haven't seen the Monument Valley infographic you should

01:08:27 ◼   ► because the numbers are staggering to see, sort of download-wise and revenue-wise

01:08:32 ◼   ► and also the piracy, which is really interesting and maybe is a topic for

01:08:37 ◼   ► another day. But I wonder kind of, Jason, what do you, one, like what do you

01:08:41 ◼   ► think about developers releasing this information? Do you think it's helpful?

01:08:44 ◼   ► Who is it helpful to? And kind of what is your take on it? I think it's really

01:08:48 ◼   ► helpful because it's very hard it's very easy to get the the the dream of being

01:08:55 ◼   ► an app developer and just making the guess that oh it's the luxurious life of

01:08:59 ◼   ► an app developer and and boy these app developers they really got it made and I

01:09:04 ◼   ► think it's good to get these data points and we've seen other indie developers

01:09:07 ◼   ► release information too because I think it gives everybody a better sense of

01:09:12 ◼   ► if you're going to become an app developer what are you getting yourself

01:09:16 ◼   ► yourself into and what are the success stories and what do they look like and

01:09:19 ◼   ► what are the hits and what do they look like and what are the

01:09:23 ◼   ► misses and what do they look like. I think it's good to have that

01:09:26 ◼   ► information out there. I also feel like nobody should feel they

01:09:33 ◼   ► need to do it but I'm very happy for the people who decide, like Marco said,

01:09:39 ◼   ► nobody wants to talk about money but I'm appreciative that Marco was willing to

01:09:44 ◼   ► talk about money because people if nobody talks about it then nobody really

01:09:47 ◼   ► has an idea of what's going on and the more disclosure you get the better the

01:09:51 ◼   ► clearer a picture you get a lot of the comments I saw about Marcos thing were

01:09:55 ◼   ► about the fact that he totaled up how much money Apple has made on overcast

01:09:59 ◼   ► and you know we all know that Apple takes 30% right but I saw a lot of

01:10:07 ◼   ► of comments that basically said, "Wow, 30% is a lot!"

01:10:14 ◼   ► $70,343. Yeah, it's a third of the total. I mean,

01:10:20 ◼   ► you think 30%, you're like, "Ah, 30%, whatever." And then you realize that Marco made $164,000

01:10:26 ◼   ► on Overcast, and Apple made $70,000. So Overcast made a lot more. Overcast made $240,000. But

01:10:36 ◼   ► But Mark only made 160 of that, and Apple made 70 of that, because that's what 30% is.

01:10:42 ◼   ► And so that even that, which is this basic thing that we all know, to see it laid out

01:10:46 ◼   ► like that was really interesting.

01:10:48 ◼   ► But in general, I thought it was also fascinating because I view having you and you and I see

01:10:54 ◼   ► some podcast numbers, and we see some statistics about podcast clients.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And by all accounts from all the podcasters in our sphere, at least, Overcast has been

01:11:04 ◼   ► a big hit.

01:11:05 ◼   ► It went rapidly from being non-existent to being the number one or number two podcast

01:11:12 ◼   ► client in my feeds.

01:11:14 ◼   ► It's number one for everything, really.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:18 ◼   ► It's, it's...

01:11:19 ◼   ► With a bullet as well in some instances.

01:11:20 ◼   ► I think iTunes, iTunes may be bigger on some of my feeds, but mostly it's Overcast.

01:11:24 ◼   ► And you could actually see the other clients go down as Overcast went up.

01:11:28 ◼   ► So it was a huge hit.

01:11:30 ◼   ► And so by within our little realm, which is a tiny, tiny realm within this larger world

01:11:36 ◼   ► of iOS app store.

01:11:37 ◼   ► So what it's fascinating to see is that Overcast, which by all accounts is a huge hit in its

01:11:42 ◼   ► chosen market, is not throwing off millions and millions of dollars.

01:11:47 ◼   ► It's throwing off something that looks like a maybe sustainable business for Marco.

01:11:53 ◼   ► As he put it, something that he can do while he's not working for someone else on something

01:12:00 ◼   ► I don't care about," is what he said. He can work in his home office, drink his fussy coffee,

01:12:04 ◼   ► take a nap after lunch if he wants to, and be around for his family. And that's successful

01:12:09 ◼   ► by his definition. And that resonated for me because I'm in a very similar position

01:12:14 ◼   ► where I'm not looking to create a media empire where I'm going to build a business and get

01:12:20 ◼   ► investment and grow and get millions and millions of dollars. I'm looking to create a sustainable

01:12:27 ◼   ► that will allow me to live my life and support my family.

01:12:31 ◼   ► And that is, so on one level, I'm really encouraged

01:12:34 ◼   ► by Marco's post because he's saying he can do that.

01:12:36 ◼   ► On another level though, I look at it and think,

01:12:39 ◼   ► this is what dominating your, granted niche product category

01:12:44 ◼   ► but still he's dominating that category.

01:12:48 ◼   ► And this is what he's making, which suggests to me

01:12:50 ◼   ► that iOS podcast apps is a category

01:12:54 ◼   ► that only has a couple hundred thousand dollars in it.

01:12:57 ◼   ► And that makes me think secondarily,

01:13:00 ◼   ► ouch, that's not sustainable

01:13:04 ◼   ► for at least an ecosystem of apps, right?

01:13:07 ◼   ► It's all those apps that Marco used to link to in Overcast.

01:13:10 ◼   ► They can't all be making this.

01:13:11 ◼   ► If he's number one and this is what he's making,

01:13:14 ◼   ► then none of the others are probably throwing off on iOS

01:13:18 ◼   ► something close to that now.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And that's, so I'm happy that it's sustainable for Marco,

01:13:24 ◼   ► but his app was also a real success.

01:13:26 ◼   ► and we see it continuing to be a success.

01:13:29 ◼   ► So that, yeah, that gives me some pause

01:13:32 ◼   ► because what it says is that if you're not dominating

01:13:35 ◼   ► like Marco is, you're not, your app is not going

01:13:39 ◼   ► to provide a comfortable living on its own.

01:13:41 ◼   ► Maybe you've got other apps and you cobble them together.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Maybe you've got some freelance work.

01:13:45 ◼   ► However you do it, I think that's the other side of it

01:13:47 ◼   ► is that, you know, he's, it's not just,

01:13:51 ◼   ► hey, Overcast did okay, yay.

01:13:53 ◼   ► I agree that's true.

01:13:55 ◼   ► but then I also think, "Hey, on my charts, Overcast dominates."

01:13:59 ◼   ► So what we're seeing here is,

01:14:01 ◼   ► "It's all okay," is what happens with domination in that category.

01:14:05 ◼   ► That's a little bit troublesome to me.

01:14:07 ◼   ► But that's what it is.

01:14:08 ◼   ► - So, I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Which is interesting that we keep going down this route.

01:14:14 ◼   ► - All right, let's fight, Myke.

01:14:16 ◼   ► - So... - When I see you in London...

01:14:18 ◼   ► - Fisticuffs. - Yeah.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Overcast is dominant for us because it's the audience that we roll in.

01:14:29 ◼   ► And interestingly enough, Upgrade has the lowest percentage of Overcast for us.

01:14:37 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:14:38 ◼   ► Of all of the shows.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Oh, Upgrading and you yourselves are all so iconoclastic.

01:14:44 ◼   ► We love you.

01:14:45 ◼   ► It is still the majority holder, but it's less.

01:14:47 ◼   ► And Apple and iTunes has a bigger cut for this show than any other show that we do.

01:14:53 ◼   ► I genuinely think the audience is different and I hope that as we start to move into different

01:14:58 ◼   ► areas, we see different things happen.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Like the pan addict as well is a lower figure because it's a different world.

01:15:08 ◼   ► I don't see this as only a couple hundred thousand dollar industry because if you take

01:15:17 ◼   ► a look at what happened at the end of the year, at the end of 2014, there was an uptick

01:15:23 ◼   ► for Marco and he calls it the serial bump.

01:15:27 ◼   ► So what that tells me is there are people in the world that found out about podcasts

01:15:33 ◼   ► and download it overcast, but it also tells me that there is room to grow.

01:15:39 ◼   ► Because I expect that whilst Marco is a dominant player for us, in the wider market that is

01:15:47 ◼   ► not the case and that Apple is the dominant force.

01:15:53 ◼   ► It's interesting as to why that's happening, but if you think, for example, so if cereal

01:16:01 ◼   ► Marco has had a million listeners, right, which was that number have been bounded about

01:16:07 ◼   ► a lot, but let's just say that that's possible, that they had a million people listen.

01:16:13 ◼   ► And Marco is potentially around 200,000 active users.

01:16:18 ◼   ► He doesn't really go into too much detail, but he says 200,000 people launched the app

01:16:22 ◼   ► and got far enough to create an account.

01:16:23 ◼   ► So we'll say that's the say, best case scenario, that's 200,000 people.

01:16:28 ◼   ► numbers, do you see what I mean? They're very different. So that says to me that Marco has

01:16:34 ◼   ► like 800,000 potential more people to go just for one show and then when you open it up

01:16:38 ◼   ► to what the wider audience can be. So it's all just me kind of just thinking as I'm going

01:16:43 ◼   ► but like what this tells me is there is a market for Marco to be successful. There is

01:16:48 ◼   ► a market for us to be successful as well as what we do in podcasting as a whole and I

01:16:53 ◼   ► I see these two things as positives,

01:16:55 ◼   ► they're positive trends.

01:16:57 ◼   ► And the fact that Marco is continuing to make,

01:17:01 ◼   ► on average, like what is it, like $15,000 a month?

01:17:05 ◼   ► And there's--

01:17:06 ◼   ► - No, that's huge, 'cause my concern was going to be

01:17:08 ◼   ► he was going to sell all of his in-app purchases

01:17:11 ◼   ► and then no one would ever give him any more money ever.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I figured that, I think everybody had that fear

01:17:17 ◼   ► for Overcast, was that it was gonna have

01:17:19 ◼   ► a barnstormer of a star, and then that was it.

01:17:23 ◼   ► but it definitely seems like that's not the case.

01:17:26 ◼   ► I mean, and I saw a lot of independent app developers

01:17:28 ◼   ► were like, this is good news to see.

01:17:32 ◼   ► Can I get your opinion on something?

01:17:35 ◼   ► 'Cause I see people complain,

01:17:36 ◼   ► or not complain, but I see people make this claim,

01:17:40 ◼   ► and I wonder what you think about it.

01:17:42 ◼   ► Marco's successful, so of course.

01:17:46 ◼   ► He's famous, so of course.

01:17:49 ◼   ► - Right, that's fine for Marco.

01:17:51 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Let's see, look everybody's different, Marco has some unique things about who he is.

01:18:00 ◼   ► Marco's notoriety and the fact that he's got this wildly successful podcast helps him launch a product.

01:18:11 ◼   ► So the numbers at the beginning are those attributable in large part to his notoriety?

01:18:20 ◼   ► Sure, it's great marketing platform for him the fact that he talked about the travails of developing overcast on ATP for weeks and weeks

01:18:27 ◼   ► It helps it made me it made me want to see it that much more

01:18:32 ◼   ► and

01:18:35 ◼   ► so

01:18:36 ◼   ► That's that that is true and that you know marketing is marketing and Marco's got Marco marketing Marco marketing Marco ting

01:18:43 ◼   ► He he's got his own way of doing and he's got his own fan base and and that's good

01:18:49 ◼   ► that'll only get you so far. So I think that that trend at the very end of the

01:18:57 ◼   ► of the the stats where he's still selling things that's that's the

01:19:02 ◼   ► encouraging thing like you said that people who know Marco have got Overcast

01:19:08 ◼   ► if they're gonna get it and now it's people who are finding Overcast and yes

01:19:14 ◼   ► his initial success helps drive the visibility of that app which helps other

01:19:19 ◼   ► people find it. That's true. I think there are things to be learned from Marco and

01:19:26 ◼   ► his numbers despite that, despite the fact that he is in some ways unique as a

01:19:33 ◼   ► developer. Yeah, so I guess that's my take on it. It's hard for me to listen to

01:19:39 ◼   ► "that's fine for Marco" statements without feeling a little bit like it's kind of

01:19:43 ◼   ► like sour grapes that somehow he doesn't deserve it or that he, you know, that just keeps coming

01:19:53 ◼   ► back to that. It's like, well, he's not one of us, he's famous and he's got this podcast

01:19:58 ◼   ► and all that. It's like, well, you know what? He was just a guy when he did build and analyze.

01:20:02 ◼   ► He was just some guy. I mean, he is responsible for having a following. So you can't just

01:20:09 ◼   ► "Oh well, it doesn't count because Marco's got a following." It's like, yeah, okay, you

01:20:13 ◼   ► know what? That's one way to market your stuff is to become a known person. And not everybody

01:20:18 ◼   ► is going to be able to do that, not everybody is willing to put themselves out there like

01:20:22 ◼   ► that. But Marco has, and he's gotten benefit of it, not just from ATP, but from his visibility

01:20:32 ◼   ► leading to people being interested in his other projects. This is the 21st century,

01:20:35 ◼   ► kind of stuff that's how that's how it works now. Being an anonymous developer

01:20:40 ◼   ► who throws penny into a fountain and hopes that it becomes a hit app is not

01:20:45 ◼   ► does not have a great chance of success but if you're somebody who builds not to

01:20:51 ◼   ► give back to Kevin Kelly's thousand true fans kind of thing but this is how it

01:20:55 ◼   ► works this is this is absolutely a model for how this stuff works and yes even

01:21:00 ◼   ► even now Marco's success with Overcast probably has something to do with the

01:21:04 ◼   ► kick-start it got from his audience and you know I don't I don't know I don't

01:21:10 ◼   ► think that's necessarily a bad thing I do I do think there's a an element of

01:21:13 ◼   ► sour grapes I also see the oh well he's got all of that tumblr money so he

01:21:17 ◼   ► doesn't even need this money to live and things like that and you know save it

01:21:21 ◼   ► for the rest of us I see I see some of that too there's a lot of stuff out

01:21:23 ◼   ► there but Marco is you know he's he's well known he's a polarizing figure

01:21:28 ◼   ► sometimes he brings it on himself a lot of times he totally doesn't deserve it

01:21:31 ◼   ► it, and he gets it anyway. You know, it's complicated, but I would say there are lots

01:21:36 ◼   ► of ways that you can market your products, and one of them is by being visible in the

01:21:45 ◼   ► world and having people who are interested in what you're doing. And Marko's got that,

01:21:49 ◼   ► but that doesn't mean other people couldn't do that too. I mean, Daniel Jalkud has a following.

01:21:54 ◼   ► not nearly as big as Marco's, but Daniel and Manton doing their podcasts, that brings,

01:22:02 ◼   ► you know, that you're part of the circle. You're a little bit more than a face in the

01:22:08 ◼   ► crowd at that point. And I think that is part of, even if it's not intended to be marketing,

01:22:13 ◼   ► this will sell me some apps being visible on a podcast. I think that it's still part

01:22:17 ◼   ► of the whole, again, this little world we live in, but it's part of that. It's part

01:22:24 ◼   ► of the marketing cycle. It makes you more visible to get covered on websites where the

01:22:29 ◼   ► people who write the websites know you, but maybe the people who read the websites don't.

01:22:35 ◼   ► And yeah, and it goes from there. So it's just, this is how it works today. So I've

01:22:40 ◼   ► gotten off on a little bit of a rant here, but I do think it's unfair. I know that, sure,

01:22:44 ◼   ► is Marco and not every developer is Marco but at the same time I don't really like the

01:22:48 ◼   ► implication there that because Marco is Marco we have nothing to learn from him because I think

01:22:55 ◼   ► that's um I think that's bogus. Nobody gives you fame. No. You have to work at that and and if

01:23:04 ◼   ► if it helped him to get a bump in the first week well that's that's what he gets for working hard

01:23:09 ◼   ► and if he has tumblr money that's what he gets for working hard. Yeah. Like he worked hard and

01:23:14 ◼   ► and he made good things.

01:23:15 ◼   ► And I'm not saying that other people aren't working hard

01:23:17 ◼   ► and making good things,

01:23:18 ◼   ► but sometimes you have to work for a long time.

01:23:21 ◼   ► - Well, and you can't say he's got a podcast

01:23:23 ◼   ► so it's not fair.

01:23:24 ◼   ► It's like, well, do you have a podcast?

01:23:26 ◼   ► Well, no, I don't like to talk and all that.

01:23:27 ◼   ► Do you have other things that you do?

01:23:28 ◼   ► Well, no, I don't.

01:23:29 ◼   ► I'm not saying everybody who complains about it is like that,

01:23:31 ◼   ► but it's like, those all go together.

01:23:33 ◼   ► They aren't separate.

01:23:34 ◼   ► It's not like this is an Olympic event in programming

01:23:39 ◼   ► where only programming is allowed

01:23:40 ◼   ► and all other things are not.

01:23:41 ◼   ► That's not how it works.

01:23:42 ◼   ► That's not how the world works.

01:23:43 ◼   ► this is marketing, this is a store,

01:23:45 ◼   ► you want to have visibility,

01:23:47 ◼   ► you want people to be talking about what you're doing.

01:23:49 ◼   ► And you know, as John Siracusa would say,

01:23:52 ◼   ► it's necessary but not sufficient.

01:23:54 ◼   ► It is, you still have to have a good product,

01:23:56 ◼   ► people still have to want it.

01:23:58 ◼   ► But it is part of the way you get people

01:24:00 ◼   ► to be aware that your product exists,

01:24:02 ◼   ► and that's just how it is.

01:24:03 ◼   ► And it's not invalidating the work that gets done.

01:24:06 ◼   ► - I just look at all this and I see it as positive.

01:24:09 ◼   ► No matter where he came from or what he did,

01:24:11 ◼   ► like this is positive stuff.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Same for Monument Valley as well, I think the market thing is maybe more interesting

01:24:18 ◼   ► to this discussion, but they made a lot of money.

01:24:22 ◼   ► Yeah, $5.8, $5.9 million in revenue.

01:24:26 ◼   ► But they pumped like a million and a half nearly into building it, but it's still an

01:24:32 ◼   ► incredible – I mean, it's relative, right?

01:24:35 ◼   ► Because – Games do really well on the App Store, folks.

01:24:38 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:24:39 ◼   ► But it's all relative, right?

01:24:41 ◼   ► That's a huge increase in profit.

01:24:43 ◼   ► Like if you put 10 grand into it and you made like 100 grand, you know, it's all relative.

01:24:48 ◼   ► So they put a lot of money in, they got a lot of money out.

01:24:51 ◼   ► So that's interesting.

01:24:53 ◼   ► But I think that you look at stuff like what Marco's doing and I think that sharing this

01:24:59 ◼   ► is positive for everyone.

01:25:01 ◼   ► It's proving you can do it.

01:25:03 ◼   ► And for me, what it proves more than anything else is you need to think about your business

01:25:07 ◼   ► model.

01:25:08 ◼   ► Marco had a different business model.

01:25:10 ◼   ► He had a free app with an in-app purchase and everyone says you shouldn't do it, or

01:25:14 ◼   ► everyone said it's gross and it's disgusting.

01:25:16 ◼   ► Not about Overcast, but about doing a business model that's like, "Oh, you should respect

01:25:22 ◼   ► us and pay up front."

01:25:23 ◼   ► And I understand all of that, but what Marco shows is you sometimes need to think about

01:25:27 ◼   ► doing things a little bit differently, because I think these graphs and charts would look

01:25:31 ◼   ► very different if Overcast was a $5 to entry.

01:25:34 ◼   ► Oh, totally.

01:25:35 ◼   ► So I think that this is a key to thinking differently.

01:25:36 ◼   ► He wouldn't get sampled.

01:25:39 ◼   ► He wouldn't get sampled by those people who bought it over Christmas and then paid for

01:25:43 ◼   ► it.

01:25:44 ◼   ► Or in that chart, because they wouldn't have bought it.

01:25:47 ◼   ► They would have just stuck with the free thing.

01:25:48 ◼   ► For sure.

01:25:49 ◼   ► So you've got to think about these things, and I think that that is a demonstration of

01:25:53 ◼   ► that.

01:25:54 ◼   ► I say congratulations to him, to be honest, and I think he's done a great job.

01:25:59 ◼   ► So shall we round off today's episode with some Ask Upgrade?

01:26:03 ◼   ► I think we shall.

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01:27:55 ◼   ► Yay!

01:27:56 ◼   ► yay

01:27:58 ◼   ► so what do we have in Ask Upgrade this week Mr. Jason? I feel like we're reaching

01:28:02 ◼   ► into the mailbag, you know I love mailbaging. Yes it is. And this is like our mailbag.

01:28:06 ◼   ► Yes.

01:28:08 ◼   ► Yep, there you go. It is, this is our mailbag.

01:28:11 ◼   ► Um... it's the smile mailbag.

01:28:13 ◼   ► The smile mailbag.

01:28:14 ◼   ► Just a mailbag with a really big smile logo on it this week. Yep, that's it. That's exactly it.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Uh... listener Javi wrote in

01:28:22 ◼   ► to say,

01:28:23 ◼   ► this is a good one,

01:28:24 ◼   ► wondering why JSNL has me blocked on Twitter?

01:28:30 ◼   ► We're approaching Alcott County, guys.

01:28:35 ◼   ► The answer is I used Twitter's powerful search feature

01:28:38 ◼   ► to find all mentions of listener Javi mentioning me on Twitter and I found no

01:28:42 ◼   ► examples of him

01:28:43 ◼   ► saying anything that would offend me at all. It doesn't mean he didn't say

01:28:47 ◼   ► something and then delete it later.

01:28:48 ◼   ► I block lots of people because life's too short and they

01:28:51 ◼   ► they get in my timeline saying strange things

01:28:54 ◼   ► or they won't leave me alone,

01:28:55 ◼   ► or they're telling me, stick to technology

01:28:58 ◼   ► or I don't follow you to listen to you tweet about sports.

01:29:01 ◼   ► So stop writing about that and stuff like that.

01:29:02 ◼   ► And I just have a life's too short to deal with those people.

01:29:06 ◼   ► I just block them.

01:29:07 ◼   ► Now, listener Havi, I had no idea why I did the searches.

01:29:12 ◼   ► I can't find anything.

01:29:13 ◼   ► I found over the years that the people

01:29:15 ◼   ► who most deserve to be blocked

01:29:17 ◼   ► are not asking to be unblocked.

01:29:20 ◼   ► I've had a few people like say,

01:29:22 ◼   ► "Hey, can you tell Jason to not block me

01:29:24 ◼   ► "because he can't see my tweets anymore?"

01:29:26 ◼   ► And those people have never been a problem again.

01:29:29 ◼   ► I've never had a problem with that.

01:29:31 ◼   ► So, listen to Javi, you were unblocked.

01:29:35 ◼   ► I don't know why you were blocked.

01:29:36 ◼   ► And again, these days they have mute.

01:29:41 ◼   ► And so if somebody is not abusive,

01:29:43 ◼   ► but is just like saying things that bug me,

01:29:46 ◼   ► I can mute them on Twitter

01:29:48 ◼   ► and then they can continue to see me,

01:29:49 ◼   ► but I just don't see them and I think that's a nice feature.

01:29:51 ◼   ► But back in the old days, you know,

01:29:54 ◼   ► the block was much more aggressive and I'll block jerks,

01:29:57 ◼   ► you know, I'll block awful, awful people.

01:30:00 ◼   ► But if I just don't want to see you

01:30:01 ◼   ► because you're saying crazy stuff or whatever,

01:30:04 ◼   ► or I just saying stuff that I don't want to see

01:30:06 ◼   ► because I've got a, you know, I've got other priorities,

01:30:09 ◼   ► then maybe I'll mute you instead and then you won't see it.

01:30:12 ◼   ► - Takes a lot of me to block someone, but I will do it.

01:30:15 ◼   ► I block if people are being, if they insult me,

01:30:19 ◼   ► like personally, I've had people that have made

01:30:23 ◼   ► really weird jokes that I don't like

01:30:26 ◼   ► and if you do that I will block you

01:30:27 ◼   ► 'cause that's the only way that I,

01:30:30 ◼   ► I know this sounds weird,

01:30:31 ◼   ► we're going into analog territory now,

01:30:33 ◼   ► but it's the only way that I feel like

01:30:34 ◼   ► I can get anything back.

01:30:36 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm not gonna, if you insult me personally,

01:30:37 ◼   ► if you insult, 'cause I had somebody insult my appearance

01:30:41 ◼   ► once in a picture and I was like, you're going,

01:30:45 ◼   ► like you don't, and this sounds so terrible

01:30:48 ◼   ► and I apologize already for how big headed

01:30:50 ◼   ► this makes me sound,

01:30:51 ◼   ► but you don't deserve any entertainment from me.

01:30:54 ◼   ► If I could reach in and delete your podcast app,

01:30:56 ◼   ► I would do that as well.

01:30:57 ◼   ► Because at this point, I don't know why you're here.

01:31:00 ◼   ► Like, why are you doing this to me?

01:31:02 ◼   ► Like, even if you think that's a funny joke,

01:31:03 ◼   ► we are not friends.

01:31:05 ◼   ► Like, I don't know you.

01:31:07 ◼   ► I mean, even if my, I don't wanna say what you said,

01:31:10 ◼   ► but even if my friends said what he said to me,

01:31:13 ◼   ► I would be really upset about it.

01:31:15 ◼   ► So it's like, it's the only one that I can think

01:31:17 ◼   ► that I've blocked for that reason.

01:31:18 ◼   ► Otherwise, I report a lot of people for spam.

01:31:22 ◼   ► - Sure.

01:31:24 ◼   ► - If I see people being aggressive towards someone,

01:31:29 ◼   ► I report them for spam.

01:31:30 ◼   ► I do that quite a lot.

01:31:32 ◼   ► 'Cause that blocks as well.

01:31:33 ◼   ► But I see why you do it,

01:31:36 ◼   ► because I've seen scenarios

01:31:39 ◼   ► where people talk to you in a really weird way.

01:31:42 ◼   ► And if I had that kind of response,

01:31:44 ◼   ► I think I would take that view as well.

01:31:46 ◼   ► It's basically just like, you know, this isn't so much just me and Jason because we're so super popular.

01:31:52 ◼   ► If people are aggressive to you or upset you, you don't have to see that.

01:31:56 ◼   ► And the easiest way to do it is just to get rid of them and block them out of your life.

01:32:00 ◼   ► Life's too short and the social networks of the world are not a place where you should feel harassed.

01:32:06 ◼   ► And Twitter need to do...

01:32:09 ◼   ► This is a whole long thing we could talk hours about.

01:32:12 ◼   ► There is so much more that Twitter needs to do and all of their promises have just been

01:32:17 ◼   ► ridiculous so far and they are not doing what they need to be doing and the government in

01:32:21 ◼   ► this country is trying to push them into doing that.

01:32:25 ◼   ► I had a nice conversation with Brianna Wu about this that was not on a podcast but it's

01:32:30 ◼   ► the idea that there's no precinct, police precinct for Twitter.

01:32:36 ◼   ► Twitter is nobody's beat, Facebook is nobody's beat.

01:32:38 ◼   ► So the police are almost incapable of focusing on this kind of thing, which is why we need

01:32:46 ◼   ► to rethink attacks and harassment and things like that on the internet.

01:32:52 ◼   ► And if there are illegal acts happening, then there needs to be somebody who's patrolling

01:32:57 ◼   ► it.

01:32:58 ◼   ► And we don't have that concept yet because our structures are decades behind that kind

01:33:02 ◼   ► of concept.

01:33:03 ◼   ► I have had on our list since episode one, a Twitter episode.

01:33:07 ◼   ► we'll get there eventually or maybe it will be the grand crossover between

01:33:11 ◼   ► upgrade and analog, I don't know, but there's so much that I use Twitter

01:33:15 ◼   ► for and so much I like about it and so much terrible stuff on it too. I mean

01:33:19 ◼   ► let's be honest and I block, I'm much quicker to block only because I've got a

01:33:23 ◼   ► lot of followers and I attract some people who say things that are

01:33:30 ◼   ► that are unfortunate and I, you know, I have no patience for that.

01:33:36 ◼   ► I am... and they'll always say like, "Oh, you're gonna block him because you don't

01:33:41 ◼   ► agree with him and he's debating you." It's like, no, I don't block people because

01:33:45 ◼   ► they're debating me. I block people because they're crazy. I block people

01:33:48 ◼   ► because they're rude. I block people because they're not really interested in

01:33:53 ◼   ► having a conversation, they just want to, they just want to bug me and just keep

01:34:01 ◼   ► needling me and they're not actually having a conversation. It's stuff like

01:34:04 ◼   ► that. It's just life's too short. Again, if somebody, this is, there's a guy,

01:34:08 ◼   ► Derek Pawazek on Twitter who has this, who I have blocked in the past and

01:34:13 ◼   ► unblocked later, and his whole thing is if somebody is, you see on

01:34:18 ◼   ► Twitter is is like making you you know making you angry or making you feel bad

01:34:25 ◼   ► about yourself or anything that is unpleasant that is making you not want

01:34:29 ◼   ► to even use Twitter because it's so unpleasant just block them and move on

01:34:32 ◼   ► with your life or mute them I suppose you could do now but just just it likes

01:34:35 ◼   ► to again like I said life's too short just move on nobody you don't owe that

01:34:40 ◼   ► to anybody like that and I love Twitter and I love interacting with people on

01:34:44 ◼   ► Twitter and I do it a lot but there every now and then there's somebody who

01:34:47 ◼   ► is acting like really entitled, like why won't you answer my question or is

01:34:51 ◼   ► telling me I don't want to hear you, you know, don't write about that, I want you

01:34:56 ◼   ► to write about this other thing. It's like I'm not here for your amusement, I'm

01:34:58 ◼   ► here for my own amusement and I like having conversations with people here

01:35:02 ◼   ► but the point is not that I'm dancing for you, you know, I'm dance monkey dance

01:35:05 ◼   ► is not, I'm not gonna do that. So yeah, anyway, it's a funny, it's a funny thing

01:35:12 ◼   ► but I do actually like, the one thing that Twitter has done that I like is

01:35:16 ◼   ► is this mute feature, which is back on the Macworld forums

01:35:20 ◼   ► we used to talk about, there was a feature

01:35:22 ◼   ► that some forum packages had that was called

01:35:25 ◼   ► Tacky Goes to Coventry.

01:35:26 ◼   ► And basically it's the global mute.

01:35:30 ◼   ► 'Cause if you ban a troll, they get really angry at you

01:35:34 ◼   ► and then they come back with a new sock puppet account

01:35:37 ◼   ► and they just keep on trolling you.

01:35:38 ◼   ► But if you send them to Coventry,

01:35:41 ◼   ► if you send them to the cornfield,

01:35:43 ◼   ► they continue to rage as long as they want

01:35:46 ◼   ► and nobody sees them. It's a global mute. They just, nobody sees their posts. They're

01:35:50 ◼   ► there, they see them, they think they're participating, and they're not. And, you know, that Twitter

01:35:56 ◼   ► mute is like that a little bit, which is like, that person can just go on and on and on to

01:35:59 ◼   ► me all they like, I'm just never gonna see it. And they can follow me, and if they get

01:36:03 ◼   ► something out of following me, that's great, but they're not gonna interact with me anymore.

01:36:07 ◼   ► And I like that because it, the block is like, you can't see me anymore, which is also bogus

01:36:12 ◼   ► because they can just log out and they can see you.

01:36:15 ◼   ► Anyway, we'll do a whole Twitter episode.

01:36:17 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:36:18 ◼   ► What else do we have?

01:36:21 ◼   ► - Listener Gary says, "Why is it that the only apps

01:36:24 ◼   ► that crashed on my Mac are Microsoft apps?"

01:36:27 ◼   ► #AskUprate.

01:36:31 ◼   ► You're not using enough other third-party apps?

01:36:34 ◼   ► - And maybe too many Microsoft apps.

01:36:35 ◼   ► - And maybe too many Microsoft apps.

01:36:38 ◼   ► I have no serious answer here.

01:36:40 ◼   ► I have lots of apps that crash and I have Microsoft apps that don't crash.

01:36:44 ◼   ► So I really don't see many crashes on OS X.

01:36:48 ◼   ► No, I really see more of that on iOS. Yes, yeah, absolutely. Every now and then

01:36:54 ◼   ► I'll get one. I've had one with transmit lately that's been crashing that I sent

01:36:59 ◼   ► panic an email about and I said why is this crashing?

01:37:02 ◼   ► But it's pretty rare that that happens. Twitter app, the

01:37:08 ◼   ► official Twitter app on that crashes all the time I should say that one crashes

01:37:13 ◼   ► all the time you should block too much yeah that must be it yeah I'm overusing

01:37:18 ◼   ► it I've worn it out you're blocking it I retired oh yeah it's true

01:37:22 ◼   ► listener Brooks wrote in and said I just filed a feature request with Apple to

01:37:28 ◼   ► add a hoi telephone as a trigger fit phrase for Siri Brooks why do you have

01:37:36 ◼   ► to ruin everything. Why, you're gonna make us do a new catchphrase. Oh, and then Amazon

01:37:45 ◼   ► Echo has some programmable ones and...

01:37:49 ◼   ► Alexa.

01:37:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't... Let's just... Let's keep a Hoy telephone pure, okay? Let's not ruin

01:37:57 ◼   ► it by making it a trigger phrase. If that day comes when you can set your own trigger

01:38:03 ◼   ► phrase for Siri, then I do expect that many upgradians will do Ahoy telephone.

01:38:09 ◼   ► That seems like a next feature to be honest, because there are

01:38:14 ◼   ► other, like Amazon does it, and Google does it, you know, it makes sense

01:38:20 ◼   ► that Apple will go that way next. Unless they really really believe in the Siri

01:38:25 ◼   ► brand, so it's like, sorry, the "mijim

01:38:25 ◼   ► brand so it's like sorry the management brand yeah and they really just want

01:38:32 ◼   ► people to be saying that and that wouldn't surprise me either to be honest

01:38:35 ◼   ► you can say Siri you just can't say ahoy telephone yeah well I think I just said

01:38:41 ◼   ► something that will probably trigger Siri sorry about that I wasn't saying it

01:38:45 ◼   ► you're running around in a circle we also have @twistofmatt I'm gonna

01:38:55 ◼   ► to go over Upgrading and Matt.

01:38:57 ◼   ► One thing people don't talk about too much on the shows

01:39:00 ◼   ► that I like is jailbreaking.

01:39:02 ◼   ► What are your thoughts?

01:39:03 ◼   ► - I had a nice conversation with Matt,

01:39:08 ◼   ► Upgrading and Matt on Twitter about this last night.

01:39:10 ◼   ► And he was not, turns out not really advocating

01:39:12 ◼   ► for jailbreaking so much as was curious about it.

01:39:15 ◼   ► I'm opposed, there have been times

01:39:17 ◼   ► when I think jailbreaking has been very important.

01:39:19 ◼   ► In the early days of the iPhone, it was important.

01:39:21 ◼   ► That's how all the original third party iPhone apps happened

01:39:24 ◼   ► is that developers jail broke their phones

01:39:26 ◼   ► and like figured out how to put apps on it,

01:39:29 ◼   ► which is totally crazy, but they did it.

01:39:31 ◼   ► And then there was a time when the iPad was out

01:39:35 ◼   ► for the first year or so you couldn't do video out

01:39:38 ◼   ► on the iPad.

01:39:40 ◼   ► And we jail broke a bunch of iPads for Mac World Expo

01:39:44 ◼   ► so that we could demo iPad things on screen

01:39:48 ◼   ► without a camera.

01:39:49 ◼   ► I guess maybe it was the second year the iPad was out.

01:39:52 ◼   ► there was a jailbreak that let you do video out

01:39:54 ◼   ► over the dock connector.

01:39:55 ◼   ► And that was huge because up until that point,

01:39:57 ◼   ► we were using those little overhead cameras

01:39:59 ◼   ► to try to show a picture of what we were,

01:40:02 ◼   ► it was terrible to demo things on the iPad.

01:40:05 ◼   ► But mostly I don't,

01:40:07 ◼   ► I think the platform is robust enough now

01:40:11 ◼   ► that I don't think there's any really great reason.

01:40:14 ◼   ► I think it adds a lot of instability.

01:40:16 ◼   ► I think a lot of the software you can download

01:40:19 ◼   ► that are hacks, it's just so tweaky and hacky

01:40:21 ◼   ► that most people are not going to get a good experience

01:40:25 ◼   ► using it, so I feel like I don't wanna talk about it.

01:40:28 ◼   ► If you wanna bring it on yourself,

01:40:29 ◼   ► then go ahead and bring it on yourself,

01:40:30 ◼   ► but I don't think most people,

01:40:32 ◼   ► I don't wanna encourage people to do it,

01:40:33 ◼   ► 'cause I don't think most people would find much value in it.

01:40:35 ◼   ► It causes lots of problems for upgrading to new versions

01:40:39 ◼   ► for the benefit of having like crazy,

01:40:42 ◼   ► weird, tweaky kind of stuff.

01:40:44 ◼   ► And then also, we don't like to talk about it,

01:40:48 ◼   ► but the number one reason for jailbreaking

01:40:50 ◼   ► is to pirate apps and I don't support that.

01:40:53 ◼   ► So, I, you know, if you wanna jailbreak your phone

01:40:56 ◼   ► and you got a reason for it, that's great,

01:40:57 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna talk about it.

01:40:59 ◼   ► - Yep, I agree, I agree.

01:41:02 ◼   ► It can become a bit of a mess

01:41:03 ◼   ► and it's a whole different world.

01:41:05 ◼   ► It's like a whole different thing.

01:41:07 ◼   ► It's not even the iOS anymore.

01:41:09 ◼   ► - If there was a feature, like tethering,

01:41:12 ◼   ► there was a time when you could do something weird

01:41:13 ◼   ► and you could get tethering.

01:41:14 ◼   ► And there was that time when you could do video

01:41:16 ◼   ► out on the iPad.

01:41:17 ◼   ► There are moments in the life of iOS

01:41:19 ◼   ► where it feels like there's a reason to jailbreak

01:41:21 ◼   ► because there's something that Apple hasn't implemented yet

01:41:24 ◼   ► that you know the hardware can do,

01:41:26 ◼   ► why haven't they implemented it

01:41:27 ◼   ► and there's a jailbreak implementation for it.

01:41:29 ◼   ► And those come along every now and then,

01:41:31 ◼   ► but that's the only reason I've ever jailbroken

01:41:34 ◼   ► because the super tweakiness of it,

01:41:37 ◼   ► actually listener Matt mentioned this,

01:41:40 ◼   ► is that he's seen some of his friends with Android phones

01:41:43 ◼   ► tweak their settings to the point of unusability.

01:41:46 ◼   ► And I think that happens.

01:41:47 ◼   ► I've seen jailbroken iOS devices that are very similar,

01:41:50 ◼   ► that are just, you know,

01:41:51 ◼   ► I've got all this crazy stuff going on.

01:41:53 ◼   ► It's like, well, that's great,

01:41:54 ◼   ► but you know, I think most people don't wanna see that.

01:41:57 ◼   ► They don't wanna do that.

01:41:58 ◼   ► They wanna keep it simple, so.

01:42:01 ◼   ► - I mean, another reason people have jailbroken in the past

01:42:03 ◼   ► is so they can use the phone in their country as well.

01:42:06 ◼   ► And you know, if that's still a thing,

01:42:07 ◼   ► then that makes sense to do.

01:42:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, unlocking your phone.

01:42:10 ◼   ► You've got an old phone

01:42:11 ◼   ► and your carrier is not cooperating to unlock it.

01:42:14 ◼   ► Totally makes sense.

01:42:15 ◼   ► Even if you are, you know, so you're still on a plan,

01:42:18 ◼   ► but you're gonna travel overseas

01:42:19 ◼   ► and you find a way to unlock your phone

01:42:21 ◼   ► so that you can go overseas

01:42:22 ◼   ► and not use your carrier's card when you're roaming.

01:42:26 ◼   ► I'm totally cool with that.

01:42:28 ◼   ► I think there are some good reasons to use it,

01:42:29 ◼   ► but they're very specific.

01:42:31 ◼   ► And then, you know, again, I feel like when we're talking,

01:42:34 ◼   ► the audience we're talking to,

01:42:35 ◼   ► even if it's a very technical audience,

01:42:37 ◼   ► I feel like even for them, 98% of them, 90,

01:42:41 ◼   ► you know, maybe for our audience, it's 95% of them

01:42:44 ◼   ► should really not ever jailbreak their device, and for the mass of iOS users, it's 99.9%.

01:42:52 ◼   ► So our last Ask upgrade today, Johnny wanted to know if we use the Ahoy! telephone feature

01:43:01 ◼   ► on a regular basis. You can say Siri.

01:43:04 ◼   ► Okay, I'll say Siri. You just can't say...

01:43:07 ◼   ► The other thing. Yeah, say "hey," the "say hey kid."

01:43:11 ◼   ► You can't say like bail, you know, what is a bail made of, Siri?

01:43:16 ◼   ► Right.

01:43:17 ◼   ► On a regular basis, do we use it how, looking for use cases, I think we both use the exact

01:43:22 ◼   ► same feature and the only time I ever use Siri, do this on three, two, one.

01:43:29 ◼   ► Set a timer for five minutes.

01:43:30 ◼   ► Yes, that's all I do.

01:43:32 ◼   ► When I'm cooking, I use Siri for timers.

01:43:34 ◼   ► It's great.

01:43:35 ◼   ► That is it.

01:43:36 ◼   ► Yep, me too.

01:43:37 ◼   ► Me too.

01:43:39 ◼   ► It's great for that because that is a perfect example of something that a voice interface

01:43:44 ◼   ► does better than the touch interface because you don't have to open the clock app and go

01:43:47 ◼   ► to timer and set the time and all of that and you've got stuff on your hands because

01:43:51 ◼   ► you're cooking or whatever.

01:43:52 ◼   ► You just say set a timer for five minutes.

01:43:53 ◼   ► It's great.

01:43:54 ◼   ► I love it.

01:43:56 ◼   ► And that is about all I use it for.

01:43:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:44:00 ◼   ► Mr. Snow, I think we did it.

01:44:01 ◼   ► I think we didn't kill anybody.

01:44:05 ◼   ► We learned a little.

01:44:07 ◼   ► We grew a little.

01:44:08 ◼   ► it a bit. Yep. Last. And left some topics for the next show which is always good. Yep.

01:44:15 ◼   ► I really enjoyed this episode, again, thank you very much as always. Thank you. I think

01:44:19 ◼   ► we're on a bit of a, you know, I think we talk about ourselves now, nobody's listening.

01:44:22 ◼   ► I think we're on a bit of a roll at the moment. I think we're on a bit of a roll. I'm really,

01:44:27 ◼   ► I'm enjoying the show more and more and more every week and I hope that everybody else

01:44:30 ◼   ► is too. If you want to find the show notes for this week's episode, point your web browser

01:44:34 ◼   ► Relay.fm/upgrade/19. We'd love to get your feedback about the show and topic

01:44:41 ◼   ► suggestions and questions and of course all you need to do for that is tweet

01:44:44 ◼   ► with the hashtag #AskUpgrade and they're gonna pop up in our lovely little

01:44:48 ◼   ► Google document and then maybe you will be a part of the Ask Upgrade section of

01:44:52 ◼   ► next week's show. If you want to find us online you can find Jason Ease @JSnell

01:44:57 ◼   ► on Twitter @JSNELL and he writes the fantastic six colors .com and I am

01:45:03 ◼   ► I'm Myke @imike on Twitter. I am YKE and I am the host of many shows at the glorious Relay FM

01:45:09 ◼   ► Of which this show has a lovely home. We'll be back next time with another episode of

01:45:15 ◼   ► Upgrade thanks again to our sponsors for this week mail route stamps calm Linda and smile with PDF pen

01:45:23 ◼   ► 2 for iPad and iPhone

01:45:25 ◼   ► Until then say goodbye Myke. Oh, goodbye Jason

01:45:28 ◼   ► The tables are turned

01:45:32 ◼   ► HA HA!

01:45:33 ◼   ► [Music]