Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► *BEEP*

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 27.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by lynda.com, where you can instantly stream thousands of

00:00:17 ◼   ► courses created by industry experts, igloo, an internet you'll actually like, and PDFPen7 from

00:00:23 ◼   ► Smile. Take control of PDFs on your Mac. My name is Myke Hurley, but I am joined, as always,

00:00:28 ◼   ► by your host of mine, the one and only Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Hi, Myke. How's it going?

00:00:32 ◼   ► I'm very well, sir. How are you?

00:00:34 ◼   ► I'm doing good. We were just realizing that at this moment that we record this,

00:00:39 ◼   ► one week from this moment is the big upgrade meetup in central London.

00:00:46 ◼   ► First annual, right?

00:00:47 ◼   ► Sure. Sure. We'll use the coffers of Relay FM to do future meetups. Well,

00:00:54 ◼   ► people will come and visit you. It's sort of a pilgrimage to see Myke in London. You have to

00:00:59 ◼   ► go to the man if the man won't come to you, you know. So yes, we'll be there. We have details now

00:01:06 ◼   ► of where we will be. We're going to record in the King's Cross area. We're going to record in person

00:01:11 ◼   ► an episode of Upgrade next week, and then we will unhook all of the technical things and all of that,

00:01:19 ◼   ► and we will go to the meetup, which will be at 6 o'clock, or as you might say, 1800 GMT.

00:01:27 ◼   ► And where is it going to be?

00:01:28 ◼   ► So, it's at a place I've been to a few times in King's Cross called the Big Chill House.

00:01:33 ◼   ► The reason I chose this place, it's got some nice large areas, because we have no way of

00:01:38 ◼   ► -- well, you know, we could have done a thing where people had to get tickets, but I kind

00:01:41 ◼   ► of didn't really feel that that would be necessary.

00:01:44 ◼   ► So it's a really big venue, and it has lots of, like, rooms and stuff like that, so it

00:01:49 ◼   ► will definitely be able to I hope unless thousands of people descend on Kings

00:01:53 ◼   ► Cross thousands of swarms of up gradients it will probably be able to house

00:01:57 ◼   ► everybody that comes down it'll be really great and me and Jason will be

00:02:00 ◼   ► there and we'll be sharing beverages and it will be a fun time so if you are in

00:02:04 ◼   ► London or in the surrounding areas and you can make it starting at 6 p.m. over

00:02:10 ◼   ► at the Big Chill house in Kings Cross we would love to see you. Indeed. And yeah

00:02:17 ◼   ► this is uh is for upgrade but if you listen to any incomparable shows any

00:02:21 ◼   ► relay shows and you enjoy them then you should come yeah yeah if you want to

00:02:25 ◼   ► listen I mean the people listening to this on upgrade you are already invited

00:02:28 ◼   ► but I'm gonna mention it to the people who if they if they know us from other

00:02:33 ◼   ► other venues from other relay shows that as you said are incomparable or six

00:02:38 ◼   ► colors in Mac world and all that everybody everybody welcome we will be

00:02:42 ◼   ► we will be there. I will be drinking beer of some sort or other and probably

00:02:48 ◼   ► dark a dork a dark sort also a dork sort. A dorky kind of beer. Nerdy beer. So look for that

00:02:57 ◼   ► look for the giant nerds drinking beer and and we'll be there so I'm excited

00:03:01 ◼   ► I'm excited about equally about the meetup and also the the in-person

00:03:08 ◼   ► episode of Upgrade. We're gonna do two of those in the next two weeks one in

00:03:12 ◼   ► England and one in Ireland.

00:03:14 ◼   ► So...

00:03:15 ◼   ► It's the upgrade on tour right now.

00:03:17 ◼   ► We should get t-shirts made.

00:03:18 ◼   ► Yeah, sure, why not?

00:03:21 ◼   ► They're t-shirts for everything else.

00:03:22 ◼   ► Why not this?

00:03:23 ◼   ► Yeah, so this should be a lot of fun.

00:03:26 ◼   ► And we were saying right before we started that, and it's much more a relay your feels

00:03:31 ◼   ► kind of aspect of it.

00:03:33 ◼   ► But I'm at that moment coming out of the insanity of last week with the Apple event.

00:03:39 ◼   ► And in my new life as an independent writer and podcaster and also a freelancer, planning

00:03:47 ◼   ► for a two-week trip is very different because I don't have like a staff to do, "Can you

00:03:51 ◼   ► do this for me?

00:03:52 ◼   ► Can you do that for me?"

00:03:53 ◼   ► I kind of like have to keep things going and I have to figure out when I'm going to write

00:03:59 ◼   ► things and I've been stockpiling podcasts to release while I'm gone.

00:04:05 ◼   ► As of tomorrow I'm going to be five weeks ahead with the incomparable, because there's

00:04:09 ◼   ► going to be a big gap when we're not going to be able to record anything.

00:04:13 ◼   ► And so it's kind of crazy.

00:04:15 ◼   ► And then I'm also going to be away from my family for a couple weeks, which is sad, but

00:04:18 ◼   ► I will be with my pals on the other side of the Atlantic, and so I'm looking forward to

00:04:22 ◼   ► that.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:24 ◼   ► We have a little bit of follow-out, and a very special vertical to address.

00:04:30 ◼   ► Oh yes.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:04:33 ◼   ► We had Federico on last week.

00:04:35 ◼   ► I ambushed you on a podcast with Federico and that was great.

00:04:41 ◼   ► That was a classic moment.

00:04:42 ◼   ► We got a lot of feedback from people who thought it was great.

00:04:45 ◼   ► We thought it was great, so we're glad you thought it was great too.

00:04:47 ◼   ► Almost killed Myke, but you know.

00:04:49 ◼   ► Nailing, very nailing.

00:04:52 ◼   ► And Federico, he was just smiling while the whole thing was going on, like, "Oh, this

00:04:58 ◼   ► is really going to get Myke."

00:05:00 ◼   ► Oh, it was, that was beautiful.

00:05:03 ◼   ► But his more broad story of his trip to San Francisco and the Apple event and all that

00:05:07 ◼   ► is on Connected 30, so people should listen to that if they want to hear more from Federico

00:05:11 ◼   ► about that trip to San Francisco.

00:05:14 ◼   ► And then he also wrote a piece on Mac Stories about it.

00:05:15 ◼   ► But a good place to start if you are a podcast listener, which you are because you're listening

00:05:20 ◼   ► to this podcast, would be Connected 30 to hear more from Federico.

00:05:25 ◼   ► So I have a little story.

00:05:26 ◼   ► About a week or so ago, it was about 8 p.m. in the evening and I was working on one of

00:05:33 ◼   ► the scripts are inquisitive I was in another room in the house just kind of

00:05:36 ◼   ► trying to get a different perspective and working on something I was stuck

00:05:39 ◼   ► with and then there was a knock at the door this is 8 p.m. at night I was very

00:05:42 ◼   ► surprised didn't really understand why anybody would be knocking on the door at

00:05:46 ◼   ► 8 p.m. at night and I opened the door and there is a man standing over a package

00:05:49 ◼   ► for me and I didn't I had no idea why this would be happening so late in the

00:05:56 ◼   ► evening and a package I wasn't expecting so he gives me the package and it just

00:06:01 ◼   ► says on the side of the box the word pong p-o-n-g. I had been telling you that a package

00:06:06 ◼   ► from pong was coming for you. That was when it all started to click into place. I tore

00:06:13 ◼   ► open this box to find inside some chili jam and some manchego cheese. It finally had arrived

00:06:20 ◼   ► Jason had had teased me with the cheese for long enough but the fine made sheep cheese

00:06:28 ◼   ► of Manchago has arrived. And I procured some crackers.

00:06:34 ◼   ► I didn't send you crackers. I sent you a little chili jam, but I didn't send you any crackers.

00:06:39 ◼   ► And so then shortly before we recorded today, I sat down with a little cheese snack.

00:06:44 ◼   ► I got some crackers and some grapes, some of the chili jam.

00:06:50 ◼   ► And I had a small selection of cheeses. I had a cheddar cheese from Cheddar, as we established.

00:06:57 ◼   ► some red Leicester cheese which is my favourite cheese. I think that was from Gloucester in

00:07:01 ◼   ► England and some Manchego cheese and it was very enjoyable. Manchego cheese doesn't taste

00:07:07 ◼   ► anything like I expected. I don't know what I expected but it's quite strong but it's

00:07:14 ◼   ► not overpowering and it was very nice on these crackers that I had that were, they had salt

00:07:19 ◼   ► and pepper in them and I must say Jason I am now a fan of the Manchego. I'm in the Manchego

00:07:26 ◼   ► Club all thanks to you.

00:07:28 ◼   ► I recommend now that for the full Jason experience you listen to an episode of The Flop House

00:07:32 ◼   ► while eating Manchego.

00:07:34 ◼   ► But I'm very happy that you like it.

00:07:36 ◼   ► You know, again, I don't have a huge amount of my self-worth invested in various kinds

00:07:39 ◼   ► of cheese.

00:07:40 ◼   ► I only discovered Manchego a few years ago, but I really like it and I'm glad you do too.

00:07:45 ◼   ► Also we had many people point out that when Casey mentioned Manchego on this week's analog,

00:07:50 ◼   ► he said it was a dry cheese to which all the cheese snobs out there shouted, "No, it's

00:07:54 ◼   ► - Not a dry cheese, but be that as it may,

00:07:57 ◼   ► it's an enjoyable cheese.

00:07:58 ◼   ► - It's crumbly. - I don't really know.

00:08:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, and it's hard, it's a hard cheese.

00:08:02 ◼   ► But it's good, it's tasty.

00:08:05 ◼   ► And like I said, I usually eat it with this tomato jam

00:08:10 ◼   ► that we made at home from a recipe

00:08:13 ◼   ► by Scott McNulty's wife, Marisa McClelland,

00:08:15 ◼   ► and her book, sponsored by Food and Jars,

00:08:19 ◼   ► a fine cookbook about canning.

00:08:21 ◼   ► And it's a great recipe and it's great with cheese.

00:08:24 ◼   ► So that's why I got you the chili jam is I thought some kind of tomato-y or slightly

00:08:28 ◼   ► spicy kind of thing would be a nice thing to try with too.

00:08:32 ◼   ► But I'm glad you like it.

00:08:33 ◼   ► I did indeed.

00:08:34 ◼   ► I did indeed.

00:08:35 ◼   ► So thank you very much for that.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Very kind of you.

00:08:38 ◼   ► It was after the Velveeta, right?

00:08:40 ◼   ► You couldn't say that.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Yeah, that was it.

00:08:42 ◼   ► I could not believe that Casey got to you with Velveeta before I got to you with Manchego.

00:08:46 ◼   ► I figured I gave you some time to buy some Manchego yourself without it being an explicit

00:08:51 ◼   ► sort of assignment like Myke watches movies.

00:08:53 ◼   ► go buy some manchego. I figured you'd stumble into it, and that didn't happen, so I had

00:08:57 ◼   ► to take matters into my own hands and send you, dispatch to you directly from a courier,

00:09:03 ◼   ► some manchego. So my, the Batman of cheese basically is who I am now. I'm sending my

00:09:09 ◼   ► minions to deliver cheese when it's needed.

00:09:13 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:09:14 ◼   ► On that note, let's take a break. We'll thank our first friend of the week, and I think

00:09:20 ◼   ► I think we're gonna spend some time today looking over and thinking back to last week's

00:09:25 ◼   ► event and some of the things that have changed now that you've had a bit more time for the

00:09:29 ◼   ► things to settle in.

00:09:30 ◼   ► A bit more, a week more time.

00:09:34 ◼   ► This week's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by lynda.com, the online learning platform

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00:10:28 ◼   ► You want to go paperless.

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00:11:34 ◼   ► Thank you so much to lynda.com for being such a great supporter of Real AFM and

00:11:37 ◼   ► of upgrade. Yay! So last week's episode of course like you know and I think

00:11:45 ◼   ► people would hear it in the show you were very fresh having come out of the

00:11:50 ◼   ► event and there was a lot of things that I was telling you because I had had the

00:11:54 ◼   ► time to dig through more of the product pages or you see the weird things that people recognize

00:12:01 ◼   ► or ask on Twitter, right? You see these little things where someone is, "Oh, look at this.

00:12:06 ◼   ► There's this thing or there's this thing in the store that we didn't know about," that

00:12:09 ◼   ► kind of thing. So I kind of want to know, how are you feeling about last week now, about

00:12:16 ◼   ► some of the products and the overall feel of the event?

00:12:19 ◼   ► Yeah, it's funny. It comes up occasionally and I realize that it's inside baseball, but

00:12:24 ◼   ► I was glad that we could talk about it last week a little bit. There is this... I mean,

00:12:31 ◼   ► there may be a reality distortion field, but there's also a bubble when you cover these

00:12:35 ◼   ► events that all you get is what Apple wants you to get. It's akin to just watching the

00:12:43 ◼   ► video of the event and not ever visiting any of the website. But our colleagues in the

00:12:48 ◼   ► media who are not at the event, they've got the video on, but they are scouring Apple's

00:12:53 ◼   ► PR site and Apple's marketing pages on Apple.com because there are always tidbits.

00:12:59 ◼   ► There are products that get released that aren't mentioned on stage.

00:13:01 ◼   ► There are features that are mentioned in detail that don't make it into the final presentation

00:13:06 ◼   ► on stage.

00:13:07 ◼   ► And if you're at the event, you miss it all.

00:13:09 ◼   ► You don't see any of that stuff.

00:13:11 ◼   ► And so you come out and you're blinking, you know, you come out into the light like you've

00:13:14 ◼   ► been in the cave, and your people back at the office or whatever, all of your colleagues,

00:13:21 ◼   ► they know more than you do very quickly, because you've been in that hands-on area, getting

00:13:26 ◼   ► information other people don't get, which is the hands-on experience with it, but what

00:13:30 ◼   ► you lack is some of the quirky details. So in the last week, I've, you know, I think

00:13:38 ◼   ► what I found is that there weren't that many quirky details about the Apple Watch, that

00:13:43 ◼   ► impression of that was that it was much... there were some changes, but I feel like they

00:13:48 ◼   ► were all about like how it was presented during the event more than anything else. And then

00:13:53 ◼   ► on the MacBook side, I don't know, it wasn't as... I wasn't as turned around by it in terms

00:13:59 ◼   ► of new information as I was just thinking about it, learning more about USBC, a little

00:14:05 ◼   ► bit more about what exactly its possibility and limitations are and where it may or may

00:14:10 ◼   ► not have come from, which was an interesting little conversation this week. And I just

00:14:15 ◼   ► spent a lot of time thinking about like my impressions of that time I spent with the

00:14:19 ◼   ► MacBook because I spent I invested far more time in the MacBook than the Apple Watch.

00:14:23 ◼   ► I know some of my colleagues at the hands-on area spent a lot of time with the with the

00:14:28 ◼   ► watch and I felt like I had already spent a lot of time with the watch. I'd worn it.

00:14:31 ◼   ► The only difference was going to be some interaction stuff and I saw some of the interaction stuff

00:14:35 ◼   ► but I really emphasized the MacBook because it was completely new, not going to be out

00:14:39 ◼   ► for several weeks and I wanted to spend time with that keyboard and that trackpad. So I

00:14:43 ◼   ► actually wrote a couple of stories last week about MacBook stuff based on, you know, thinking

00:14:50 ◼   ► about that, especially the input devices, and also thinking about the USB-C connector.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Because I think the MacBook is going to affect how everybody who uses a Mac interacts with

00:15:01 ◼   ► their Macs over the next five years because it is going to usher in at least some of this

00:15:05 ◼   ► technology is going to make it to many or all Macs in the next few years. And so I think

00:15:12 ◼   ► it's really worth thinking about that because that's a huge story in the long haul. Now

00:15:16 ◼   ► the Apple Watch is shiny. Literally, it is shiny. But I don't know. It was also not -- the

00:15:24 ◼   ► percentage of new material in the Apple Watch stuff was not as great. So although I'm excited

00:15:29 ◼   ► about the Apple Watch, for me, the MacBook was the thing I spent this last week thinking

00:15:33 ◼   ► about most of the time.

00:15:34 ◼   ► All right, so let's look at this a little bit more then because I can't remember if I asked you this question last week

00:15:40 ◼   ► But maybe you're thinking about it a little bit more

00:15:43 ◼   ► now

00:15:45 ◼   ► Are you gonna buy one of these

00:15:48 ◼   ► No

00:15:49 ◼   ► Okay, so tell me why

00:15:51 ◼   ► Well because I have a top-of-the-line

00:15:53 ◼   ► i7 Mac 11 inch MacBook Air from 2014 and

00:15:59 ◼   ► And my primary system is no longer my laptop.

00:16:04 ◼   ► It's this Retina iMac that I have.

00:16:07 ◼   ► So for me personally, this doesn't make sense.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Would I buy one of these down the line?

00:16:14 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:16:15 ◼   ► If IDG hadn't given me my work laptop

00:16:19 ◼   ► and I was using the old laptop

00:16:21 ◼   ► that I had kicking around at home,

00:16:24 ◼   ► I would be more interested in it,

00:16:27 ◼   ► especially now that I have a desktop.

00:16:29 ◼   ► I think if I can just keep on playing these scenarios, if I was working at this desk with

00:16:36 ◼   ► my external monitor and my thunderbolt hub, then I would have a problem because I couldn't

00:16:42 ◼   ► plug this laptop into it.

00:16:43 ◼   ► So it's not, it's just in all these scenarios, it's not a really great fit for me right now.

00:16:47 ◼   ► But given, I'll put it this way, given how I use my MacBook Air now, I would absolutely

00:16:52 ◼   ► buy one of these because I don't plug it into anything ever.

00:16:56 ◼   ► I used to plug it in on a desk and dock it with this Thunderbolt dock and have multiple

00:17:05 ◼   ► devices, like five devices coming off of it, and Ethernet and audio out and all of these

00:17:10 ◼   ► things.

00:17:11 ◼   ► But now my MacBook Air is largely a roam around the house, sit in the backyard, take it to

00:17:17 ◼   ► a briefing or when I travel kind of system.

00:17:22 ◼   ► And it could do that.

00:17:25 ◼   ► I'm interested to see how that core M processor works in terms of something like logic, which

00:17:30 ◼   ► I use.

00:17:31 ◼   ► But that's, again, that's a high-end kind of pro kind of thing, and I bet it'll be okay.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Not fantastic, but with the SSD in it, I bet it'll be fine to edit audio even.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Because these computers now are...all of these computers are so powerful that unless you're

00:17:45 ◼   ► using it for very specific powerful needs, which our audience is much more inclined to

00:17:52 ◼   ► than I think the general public, you know, I think it's enough.

00:17:54 ◼   ► So I feel like for me, I would buy this system, but right now I don't need to buy it because

00:17:59 ◼   ► I've got a pretty good small Mac laptop.

00:18:03 ◼   ► And although it's not retina, I can live with that.

00:18:07 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:18:09 ◼   ► I could see myself getting one of these in a couple of years, or if my kids were agitating

00:18:16 ◼   ► for a laptop or something like that, I would consider the, "Do I get this and hand that

00:18:21 ◼   ► down or do I get them one or all of that?"

00:18:24 ◼   ► I could see that. So it's definitely not a no because of anything other than the fact

00:18:28 ◼   ► that I'm not at that point in the buying cycle. What about you?

00:18:33 ◼   ► So I have, what was it, Maclust. I have hashtag Maclust.

00:18:39 ◼   ► Hashtag Maclust, thank you Phil Schiller.

00:18:41 ◼   ► I do, I definitely do. It's a beautiful computer. And I keep hearing people mention about travel.

00:18:51 ◼   ► And I'm traveling a lot more this year than I ever have before.

00:18:57 ◼   ► And I expect that that will continue, and there's probably things that I'm going to

00:19:00 ◼   ► be traveling for this year that I don't even know about yet.

00:19:04 ◼   ► And I have a 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro, and it's fine, but it's still a bit too big for

00:19:11 ◼   ► an economy seat.

00:19:13 ◼   ► And I guess anything you can do to make that smaller is going to be better, right?

00:19:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, you've got so many USB things though,

00:19:24 ◼   ► for again, for you personally,

00:19:26 ◼   ► and we may not be the best examples.

00:19:27 ◼   ► Like I've got a USB mixer, you know,

00:19:29 ◼   ► USB type, you know, A, B mixer.

00:19:33 ◼   ► And so then you're throwing in an adapter

00:19:36 ◼   ► and then you have to also power it.

00:19:38 ◼   ► And you know, it is smaller and lighter.

00:19:41 ◼   ► That's true.

00:19:42 ◼   ► But you opted for the 13 inch retina MacBook Pro

00:19:44 ◼   ► over an 11 inch MacBook Air.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, so let me talk from my decision

00:19:49 ◼   ► for why I went with the Pro.

00:19:50 ◼   ► I went with the Pro just because I wanted power and the difference in weight and thickness

00:19:56 ◼   ► is, I feel, is not as harsh as the power difference.

00:20:02 ◼   ► I wanted a machine that could do everything and that I could also push if I had to.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Like if something happened and I could only use this computer for recording and editing,

00:20:13 ◼   ► then great, I could do that.

00:20:16 ◼   ► as well I'm not I'm I I really don't like the silver bezel on the MacBook Air

00:20:25 ◼   ► especially on the 11 it's not looks like you're looking at kind of like a to me

00:20:30 ◼   ► anyway when I see it looks like a postcard on a billboard like it's just I

00:20:34 ◼   ► don't like it I just I'm just not a big fan of that design anymore and I much

00:20:39 ◼   ► prefer the the way that the MacBook Pro looks in that I need to spend I mean need

00:20:44 ◼   ► spend some time with the MacBook because it's got the edge-to-edge glass screen

00:20:47 ◼   ► too. I've found that, and maybe maybe they've changed the the glare coating on

00:20:52 ◼   ► it, but I always preferred the MacBook Air screen to the MacBook Pro screens

00:20:56 ◼   ► because I found that the the even though the silver bezel is not pretty, it allows

00:21:02 ◼   ► them to have whatever screen coating is on that screen, I find it to be much

00:21:08 ◼   ► less glare-y than the MacBook Pro screens. Much less glare-y. I may be less sensitive

00:21:15 ◼   ► to it. I don't have any problem with that. And plus as well, I may be more than anything,

00:21:20 ◼   ► I wanted a retina screen. Yeah. And that's kind of why I had no other choice. Now the

00:21:26 ◼   ► reason that, I mean I really like the look of the MacBook Air, and probably like for

00:21:32 ◼   ► the majority of stuff that I actually use this MacBook Pro for, I could use the MacBook

00:21:35 ◼   ► care for. Right? Because I do all the production really on the Mac Pro and the

00:21:41 ◼   ► the MacBook that I use is for my general day-to-day work. My MacBook Pro, I've said this before,

00:21:46 ◼   ► it's my main computer. But the reason that I won't get it, I actually have a few

00:21:49 ◼   ► reasons, is the way that I use this computer means that the MacBook Air

00:21:53 ◼   ► wouldn't work for me. So quite frequently I have my MacBook Pro plugged in and I

00:21:59 ◼   ► charge my iPhone. That is something that happens. Or I like to charge my iPhone

00:22:03 ◼   ► whilst using the computer. And I appreciate I could get another adapter

00:22:09 ◼   ► and a plug and a dock but it's just something that I don't have. But more than

00:22:12 ◼   ► anything and the main reason that I wouldn't get it is because I wouldn't

00:22:16 ◼   ► use most of the functions of the MacBook Air on a day-to-day basis. I sometimes

00:22:21 ◼   ► suffer with some wrist pain and arm pain so I elevate my MacBook Pro and use a

00:22:26 ◼   ► Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and a magic mouse. So I need the Microsoft

00:22:32 ◼   ► ergonomic keyboard it has a little USB Bluetooth thing that has to be plugged

00:22:35 ◼   ► in constantly so you wouldn't even be able to plug that in and also the trackpad and the new

00:22:42 ◼   ► keyboard I would never use them or I wouldn't use them that much so like the

00:22:46 ◼   ► big advancements of this machine I wouldn't really use so I really think it

00:22:53 ◼   ► looks incredible I think that it you know I think that for some of what you

00:22:57 ◼   ► need is it's too early but it has to start at some point. Like, we're not ready

00:23:04 ◼   ► for USB-C yet. But we will be eventually and the only way we will be

00:23:11 ◼   ► is by there being computers for it. So I think that the MacBook is a really

00:23:17 ◼   ► good machine for most people provided that they know exactly what they're

00:23:21 ◼   ► getting in to. Because you can't even, like I know we were talking about like

00:23:27 ◼   ► "Oh, you can't plug USB in and power, and we're talking about hubs and stuff."

00:23:31 ◼   ► But if you have anything USB, you can't plug it in.

00:23:34 ◼   ► You need an adapter to just plug in one USB.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Maybe you have a hard drive you like to back up onto, or something like that.

00:23:41 ◼   ► That's true.

00:23:43 ◼   ► I don't know if you even were paying attention to anything

00:23:48 ◼   ► when the iMac came out.

00:23:50 ◼   ► Were you a very small child at that point? I don't know.

00:23:53 ◼   ► The original iMac.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Yeah, the original iMac.

00:23:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't wanna tell you how old I was,

00:23:57 ◼   ► but I was young.

00:23:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's enough.

00:24:01 ◼   ► I don't wanna hear anymore out of you, you kids.

00:24:04 ◼   ► But this is exactly what the conversation was then,

00:24:07 ◼   ► which was, oh, it's underpowered,

00:24:09 ◼   ► it doesn't have a floppy drive,

00:24:10 ◼   ► it doesn't have max serial, it doesn't have ADB,

00:24:13 ◼   ► all it has is USB, what the heck is USB?

00:24:15 ◼   ► It was very much like this,

00:24:17 ◼   ► oh, you'll need an adapter and blah, blah, blah,

00:24:18 ◼   ► but you had to start somewhere.

00:24:20 ◼   ► And Apple's not afraid to do that,

00:24:22 ◼   ► and I love that about Apple.

00:24:23 ◼   ► And so yeah, this is gonna be a weird computer for a while,

00:24:25 ◼   ► And then in five years, we're gonna look back and say,

00:24:28 ◼   ► "Oh, that's where it all started."

00:24:30 ◼   ► And it's gonna be the root computer

00:24:32 ◼   ► of all of this new technology that we're seeing.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Like USB-C will be like, "Oh, USB-C,

00:24:37 ◼   ► "well, that started with that crazy MacBook

00:24:39 ◼   ► "where that was the only port."

00:24:41 ◼   ► But now everybody's got it.

00:24:42 ◼   ► And so this is all happening in slow motion

00:24:45 ◼   ► and we can sit here and this Apple focused world

00:24:50 ◼   ► has been talking breathlessly about this for a week.

00:24:53 ◼   ► We're talking very quickly about something

00:24:55 ◼   ► that's going to happen very slowly. But it will happen, and it's fine. But we're entering

00:25:01 ◼   ► this weird transition. So I wrote a piece on the formerly Paul Ferat's Windows Super

00:25:07 ◼   ► Site, winsupercite.com, where I try to explain Apple things to a Windows professional IT

00:25:13 ◼   ► audience on a weekly basis. That's kind of interesting. And I wrote a thing about USB-C

00:25:17 ◼   ► for them. And, you know, very much because I know I'm speaking to IT people, I spent

00:25:23 ◼   ► lot of time on Apple's dance, the dance of the connectors. Like, over the years, Apple

00:25:31 ◼   ► has had so many different connection technologies. It used to be even crazier in that it was

00:25:36 ◼   ► only on Apple products. The Mac serial and Apple desktop bus and even really SCSI for

00:25:43 ◼   ► most use cases were only things that were on the Mac. And then they didn't run Intel

00:25:47 ◼   ► processors. I mean, Macs used to be so not PCs that it was just a totally different...

00:25:52 ◼   ► It was a parallel universe.

00:25:54 ◼   ► They didn't connect at all.

00:25:56 ◼   ► And then over the course of the last 15 years, Macs have become essentially just PCs, and

00:26:01 ◼   ► they've got all the same stuff.

00:26:02 ◼   ► The only difference is the operating system.

00:26:04 ◼   ► And I mean, the design and stuff, but I mean, the ports are ports that you could find on

00:26:08 ◼   ► a PC more or less.

00:26:10 ◼   ► And so I wrote about that.

00:26:13 ◼   ► And one of the things, if you're a technical support person or an IT person that you care

00:26:17 ◼   ► about is that we had entered a period of stability where sort of, if you had a mini display port

00:26:21 ◼   ► connector or adapter, you were good. You could get all the Macs had that and we just left

00:26:27 ◼   ► that period. Because now we're going to have this weird Mac that doesn't use many display

00:26:33 ◼   ► port to connect to a monitor and you're going to need another adapter or two in your in

00:26:36 ◼   ► your conference room or users of this product who do presentations are going to always have

00:26:42 ◼   ► to bring that with them in case they need it. And that's just this happens. These are

00:26:48 ◼   ► these are growing pains. Mac users always complain about, and Apple fans in general,

00:26:53 ◼   ► always complained about the fact that, or, well, they didn't complain, they would point

00:26:57 ◼   ► and laugh at Microsoft and the struggles Microsoft would have because Microsoft had this huge

00:27:03 ◼   ► install base and they wanted to maintain compatibility and, you know, that was what Microsoft excelled

00:27:08 ◼   ► at was dealing with the people who do support and big organizations and that was a weight

00:27:16 ◼   ► on Windows. But this is the flip side of that. Apple not caring about continuity and just

00:27:23 ◼   ► making it hard for everybody in the transition because they want to move to something that's

00:27:28 ◼   ► new and that's better gets us where we are with this product. And so yeah, it's going

00:27:33 ◼   ► to be a pain. And yeah, I'm not looking forward to that moment where I realize that all of

00:27:38 ◼   ► my adapters are now useless because I have a new computer with a new set of ports that

00:27:44 ◼   ► are totally different and although they're better they're also different.

00:27:47 ◼   ► But that's what you get for being users of products by a company that is pushing the

00:27:53 ◼   ► ball forward and that's what Apple is doing with this.

00:27:56 ◼   ► So I don't know, it's just kind of funny.

00:27:59 ◼   ► It's all true, yes.

00:28:00 ◼   ► It is a weird product, yes it's probably not for everyone, yes it is going to be a pain

00:28:05 ◼   ► for all involved for a while, but that's how change happens.

00:28:09 ◼   ► You just got to deal with it.

00:28:10 ◼   ► It can be difficult and it can be frustrating, annoying, and expensive, but without trying

00:28:17 ◼   ► to be an apologist, I love that my chosen team decides to do this stuff.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:27 ◼   ► That's one of the reasons that we like Apple, is that they do stuff like this, right?

00:28:33 ◼   ► And it's very Apple.

00:28:34 ◼   ► I said in that Super Site column, this is the most Appley thing that you could imagine.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Hey, it's got one port and that includes the power plug.

00:28:42 ◼   ► What?

00:28:43 ◼   ► But, you know, then, and then Google released the new

00:28:46 ◼   ► or announced and shipped the new Chromebook Pixel,

00:28:49 ◼   ► which also has two USB-C ports.

00:28:53 ◼   ► So, you know, it's the start of something

00:28:55 ◼   ► that's going to be everywhere.

00:28:56 ◼   ► It's gonna be everywhere.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Even a year ago, we were all talking about how

00:29:00 ◼   ► they had finally done a reversible USB connector,

00:29:03 ◼   ► which is this one, and how it's like,

00:29:05 ◼   ► ah, finally the USB consortium has figured something out

00:29:08 ◼   ► about ease of use and all of that. Well, it turns out maybe Apple was involved at that

00:29:12 ◼   ► in the development of this standard too.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it was on the talk show this week.

00:29:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it sounds like John maybe overstated Apple's—I think in the talk show John Gruber

00:29:22 ◼   ► said something like Apple invented it and then—

00:29:24 ◼   ► And handed it over.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's maybe not entirely true and there's a lot of politics involved, but, you

00:29:31 ◼   ► know, the nice thing about it is this is not an Apple proprietary standard. This is a standard

00:29:36 ◼   ► standard, an open available standard that other PC makers are going to support, presumably

00:29:42 ◼   ► that Intel will support. It will become the new generation of USB and Apple, if Apple

00:29:48 ◼   ► got to be influential, you know, I think it's good for Apple to have this connector exist.

00:29:52 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:29:53 ◼   ► My understanding is that this is just USB 3.0 with a different connector, right? Like

00:29:58 ◼   ► it doesn't give anything different.

00:30:00 ◼   ► No.

00:30:01 ◼   ► Well, it is USB, underlying it is USB 3.1, but the issue is that this connection standard

00:30:10 ◼   ► is different enough that adapters are required.

00:30:12 ◼   ► So it's more than the old school is my understanding.

00:30:17 ◼   ► It's a little bit different that you need a little bit more in the adapter, but I don't

00:30:21 ◼   ► know a lot of the details.

00:30:22 ◼   ► I haven't read as much about that, but underlying it is USB 3.0 and 3.1 and what those can do,

00:30:28 ◼   ► but this is a totally different connector thing.

00:30:30 ◼   ► It is there, I think what they said was, this connection change will require adapters because

00:30:35 ◼   ► there's specific things that need to be adapted between USB A and B and connector type C,

00:30:40 ◼   ► but that they built this with forward-looking whatever so that they say this shouldn't happen

00:30:48 ◼   ► again.

00:30:49 ◼   ► This should be the last time that you need like a totally crazy adapter to get your USB

00:30:53 ◼   ► stuff to work.

00:30:54 ◼   ► So these adapters, are the adapters with apparently like the little computers inside them?

00:30:59 ◼   ► That's my guess, and I don't know that for a fact, but that's my guess is that these

00:31:03 ◼   ► are like the Thunderbolt adapters that we've seen, where it actually needs to do some more

00:31:08 ◼   ► sophisticated stuff than just a cable.

00:31:15 ◼   ► But I don't know for sure.

00:31:17 ◼   ► We've reached the edge of my knowledge about USB-C. All I know is that we need adapters

00:31:22 ◼   ► for everything if we're going to use USB-C. Adapters everywhere.

00:31:25 ◼   ► All the adapters.

00:31:26 ◼   ► All the great adapters.

00:31:27 ◼   ► - I mean, we got a lot of feedback that I didn't put in follow up, but we got the same

00:31:33 ◼   ► feedback everybody did, which is essentially, "Look, if you need to connect to big displays

00:31:37 ◼   ► and external drives, this computer's not for you."

00:31:40 ◼   ► On ATP this week, John Syracuse went on for quite a while about how he was going to be

00:31:46 ◼   ► painted as the guy who said, "This computer's no good because I can't use it."

00:31:51 ◼   ► And he's like, "No, no, no, that's not my point."

00:31:53 ◼   ► was making a different point which is if you're gonna have more than zero ports

00:31:58 ◼   ► maybe you should have two which I think that's a fair point I actually I would

00:32:04 ◼   ► be surprised if there isn't a future a future MacBook in a year or two that has

00:32:09 ◼   ► two ports on it I just wouldn't that's what happened with the MacBook Air I

00:32:12 ◼   ► kind of mind it inconceivable that they would stay in conceivable that they

00:32:17 ◼   ► could stay with just one that just seems weird but they've made a choice like

00:32:21 ◼   ► They've made a choice, but like, why would you do that forever?

00:32:24 ◼   ► - Wouldn't it be great to have one on either side so that you could charge or attach peripherals

00:32:29 ◼   ► from either side?

00:32:31 ◼   ► That would be really nice.

00:32:32 ◼   ► So I think that'll probably happen.

00:32:34 ◼   ► And then we had one I wanted to mention.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Lister David represented a larger group by saying, "Why do MacBook commentators seem

00:32:41 ◼   ► so hung up on a single port and not the retina screen, lightness, and battery life?"

00:32:46 ◼   ► And you know, I got a lot of this and I sense with some of the people who make this comment

00:32:53 ◼   ► that they're frustrated that people are focusing on the negative and not the positive.

00:32:59 ◼   ► And I get that, although at the same time it's not really our job to focus on the positive.

00:33:04 ◼   ► It's our job to kind of like figure out everything that a product means.

00:33:08 ◼   ► I do agree that people who write about this stuff are sometimes the most demanding technical

00:33:14 ◼   ► people of all, and that they totally lose perspective about a product like this. I feel

00:33:20 ◼   ► like the stuff I've listened to and read has been a little bit better than in the past

00:33:24 ◼   ► about this. Unlike the original MacBook Air, for example, I feel like, you know, John Syracuse

00:33:29 ◼   ► is a good example. The nerds are realizing, are better at realizing that just because

00:33:35 ◼   ► a product's not for them doesn't mean that it's not good, or that it's not good for a

00:33:39 ◼   ► certain kind of audience. You know, it remains to be seen when we actually use these things,

00:33:44 ◼   ► how all of us feel about the actual performance and how that keyboard actually feels.

00:33:48 ◼   ► But I feel like we're getting better at having a little more perspective and saying, "Our

00:33:54 ◼   ► use case is not the common use case," because that's true.

00:33:56 ◼   ► I think of how my kids use laptops.

00:34:00 ◼   ► I think about how my mom used her laptop before she switched to an iPad.

00:34:04 ◼   ► I think about how people use iPads.

00:34:06 ◼   ► And I think this is the product for them.

00:34:08 ◼   ► And there is this tendency, all of us have it, to see a product that is not targeted

00:34:13 ◼   ► at you and get mad at it because I can't use that product. But you know, I think that's

00:34:19 ◼   ► okay. There are other products for you to use. You don't need to use this product. This

00:34:23 ◼   ► is like the iPhone 6 Plus. It's not for everybody. And that's okay. There's also an iPhone 6.

00:34:29 ◼   ► You can choose whether you want the big phone or not. We're not going to make you use it.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Nobody's going to make you buy a MacBook with one port. If they stop making all other Apple

00:34:38 ◼   ► laptops and this was the only one, then I think you'd have a better reason to complain.

00:34:42 ◼   ► but they're not going to do that. So I think we're getting better at this, but it is an

00:34:46 ◼   ► important I think I think it's right in the people who are trying to kind of keep us honest

00:34:49 ◼   ► by saying, look, you know, you guys are not I am sitting here with this thunderbolt doc

00:34:57 ◼   ► next to my computer, and it's got like five things plugged into it's like that is not

00:35:00 ◼   ► a common use case. That is crazy me editing podcasts and logic, not a common use case.

00:35:05 ◼   ► And that's okay. I won't when I review the MacBook, I'm not going to be judging it on

00:35:11 ◼   ► whether I can use it or not. I'm gonna have to think of the bigger picture of who is this

00:35:14 ◼   ► for. I learned that really early on when I was writing reviews at MacUser and MacWorld.

00:35:20 ◼   ► One of the questions you have to ask and answer is, who is this product for? Who's it targeted

00:35:23 ◼   ► for, and does it meet that? Will it serve those people? And it's very easy as a reviewer

00:35:29 ◼   ► to lose complete perspective of that and make it all about you. And a review that's all

00:35:33 ◼   ► about you doesn't tell anybody anything unless they happen to be exactly like you, which

00:35:38 ◼   ► is probably not possible. I think the thing with a lot of this stuff is like

00:35:43 ◼   ► everybody is just bringing their own personal experience to it. So the

00:35:48 ◼   ► people that don't understand the one port or focus on the one port

00:35:52 ◼   ► that maybe we have is because like how I just explained like with the way that I

00:35:56 ◼   ► use my computer I can't use this computer. There are some things where I

00:36:01 ◼   ► could adapt but there are some things where it's like adapting could

00:36:05 ◼   ► calls me physical pain, right? So I can't adapt to one port. And

00:36:12 ◼   ► it's the same with other people who say that one port is fine, it's

00:36:15 ◼   ► because that's what you use. And it does take the more considered approach

00:36:19 ◼   ► where I think initially it's been a lot of first impressions and

00:36:23 ◼   ► feelings which tend to come from personal experience. But I've put a

00:36:27 ◼   ► lot of thought into it and been thinking about why is this interesting, why would

00:36:31 ◼   ► I want one and why wouldn't I want one? And that's kind of where I've come to.

00:36:36 ◼   ► It's like I would very much like to have this computer but there is no

00:36:40 ◼   ► world in which I will own two laptops. It's crazy. But I think it would be

00:36:45 ◼   ► very very nice to own for the specific uses of like traveling and stuff but I'm

00:36:49 ◼   ► not gonna buy a laptop just for traveling. But I can see for people that

00:36:53 ◼   ► do travel a lot especially or are writing in environments where it's very

00:36:58 ◼   ► constrained for them and they really need the space. This is kind of the

00:37:01 ◼   ► perfect machine because it's got a bigger display for the size of the

00:37:05 ◼   ► case and with it being

00:37:09 ◼   ► Retina you can really ramp up the resolution on the thing and it's an

00:37:13 ◼   ► interesting product and there's a lot of innovation in

00:37:16 ◼   ► there that I'm looking forward to trickling down to the lines a bit more.

00:37:20 ◼   ► So for my upgrade in a year or two, when I want to upgrade my MacBook Pro,

00:37:26 ◼   ► then I will be able to benefit from the work that's been done on the new

00:37:30 ◼   ► the MacBook. I have two other pieces of listener interaction that I want to

00:37:37 ◼   ► mention here before we move on from the MacBook. One of them is from listener Matt

00:37:40 ◼   ► who wrote in, you know, we talked about whether Thunderbolt, this is a sign

00:37:45 ◼   ► that Thunderbolt is going away, and he wrote in to say he doesn't think, he's a

00:37:49 ◼   ► pro, he says he doesn't think Thunderbolt's going anywhere, it's got a

00:37:51 ◼   ► lot of support in a lot of places in pro applications, and you know when I

00:37:55 ◼   ► replied to him and I said, you know, but is this gonna be like FireWire where it

00:37:58 ◼   ► just sort of ends up more on pro systems and their consumer systems that don't have it,

00:38:02 ◼   ► he said, "Yeah, that may be the case, and we'll have to see."

00:38:05 ◼   ► It looks to me like over time, USB-C is going to be able to do for consumer applications

00:38:10 ◼   ► at least more or less everything that we want Thunderbolt for, and that maybe Thunderbolt

00:38:15 ◼   ► will fade away eventually, but it would be a longer and slower fade and something that

00:38:21 ◼   ► really happened more on the consumer line where it would stick around for longer on

00:38:25 ◼   ► the pro line.

00:38:27 ◼   ► I think that's probably right.

00:38:29 ◼   ► And then Upgrading Sam, I just varied it

00:38:32 ◼   ► because I know you like to say Upgrading.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Wrote in to point out something interesting,

00:38:38 ◼   ► the LG G2 and the Moto X both also use,

00:38:40 ◼   ► these smartphones also have stepped or terraced batteries.

00:38:44 ◼   ► I also had somebody write in

00:38:46 ◼   ► after I was on Mac break weekly last week

00:38:47 ◼   ► to point out that HP actually had a laptop

00:38:51 ◼   ► with a force-based track pad

00:38:52 ◼   ► that didn't move a couple of years ago.

00:38:55 ◼   ► Although interestingly, and it was good, I didn't know that.

00:38:59 ◼   ► I really appreciate that person writing in.

00:39:01 ◼   ► But interestingly, that was the whole feature

00:39:02 ◼   ► was there was a force sensor and it didn't move.

00:39:05 ◼   ► If you wanted feedback,

00:39:07 ◼   ► if you had the speakers on on the laptop,

00:39:10 ◼   ► when you clicked it, it played a sound of a trackpad click.

00:39:13 ◼   ► And to me, this is the kind of thing

00:39:17 ◼   ► that Apple does really well,

00:39:18 ◼   ► is Apple takes that existing stuff of the force sensors

00:39:22 ◼   ► and the existing stuff of haptics

00:39:24 ◼   ► and write some very clever software

00:39:26 ◼   ► and integrates the hardware together

00:39:27 ◼   ► and create something that feels like you're depressing it

00:39:29 ◼   ► when you're not, which is way better

00:39:32 ◼   ► than hearing a Windows play a click sound.

00:39:36 ◼   ► So I think that is like a little microcosm

00:39:39 ◼   ► of how Apple does things.

00:39:40 ◼   ► And whenever Apple announces a new feature,

00:39:43 ◼   ► whether it's the Terrace battery or something,

00:39:45 ◼   ► especially if you're in the distortion field at the time,

00:39:49 ◼   ► you're like, "Oh wow, that's a really cool idea."

00:39:51 ◼   ► And they're always,

00:39:52 ◼   ► even if you don't say Apple thought of it first, you will always get...and you write

00:39:56 ◼   ► about like, "Hey, Apple introduced this cool feature," there's always somebody in my experience

00:40:01 ◼   ► who writes in and goes, "They weren't first with that. Somebody else did that first,"

00:40:04 ◼   ► and they're really angry about it. And usually, I try not to make claims that it's first from

00:40:10 ◼   ► Apple because that's usually not the case. This, though, is what makes that Apple stuff

00:40:14 ◼   ► different, is that Apple puts a lot of this stuff that's totally not...they're totally

00:40:18 ◼   ► not first with any of that stuff or most of that stuff, and they put it together in a

00:40:21 ◼   ► really clever way that are the first ones to make something that makes sense as a whole.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And who wants to bet? Okay, so it's been a couple of years since HP had that four sensing

00:40:31 ◼   ► trackpad and nobody seems to really picked up on it. Who wants to bet how long it's going

00:40:35 ◼   ► to take for PC makers to create four sensitive trackpads with haptics in order to have the

00:40:44 ◼   ► same effect? You will see them. Whether they sell well or not, who knows. Whether they're

00:40:47 ◼   ► well implemented, who knows. But because Apple's kind of packaged this whole thing together,

00:40:52 ◼   ► that's what makes people interested in it. And it is very compelling. It is kind of an

00:40:56 ◼   ► amazing product, the trackpad. I really kind of love it, and I want one for my desk here.

00:41:02 ◼   ► I want a Force Touch Magic trackpad. Could we add more words in front of the word "trackpad"?

00:41:08 ◼   ► Probably not. But anyway, I think that's an interesting angle that a lot of times these

00:41:12 ◼   ► These aren't the original things.

00:41:13 ◼   ► The Terrace batteries existed before.

00:41:16 ◼   ► The Force trackpad existed before.

00:41:18 ◼   ► But Apple does a good job of selling it.

00:41:22 ◼   ► And often we'll put a bunch of different things

00:41:25 ◼   ► together to tell a story about why a product is good that

00:41:28 ◼   ► include those things, where sometimes it ends up

00:41:30 ◼   ► just being a fact in a product.

00:41:33 ◼   ► And there's nothing really connected to it.

00:41:35 ◼   ► Because they say on stage, we invented this.

00:41:38 ◼   ► And it's like, that word can be taken quite,

00:41:43 ◼   ► can be taken literally or more loosely,

00:41:46 ◼   ► because they probably did invent it for their purpose.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Like they didn't take it off the shelf.

00:41:51 ◼   ► But it doesn't mean that they were necessarily

00:41:54 ◼   ► the first person to ever consider the idea.

00:41:57 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:41:58 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:41:59 ◼   ► - Like, you know, they made it,

00:42:01 ◼   ► but they didn't necessarily come up with the original idea.

00:42:05 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And that's, you know, it's okay.

00:42:08 ◼   ► I get why people are mad because Apple oftentimes will act like something is something they

00:42:13 ◼   ► invented and it's not quite, but there's usually more to it than that.

00:42:17 ◼   ► It's usually not Apple just saying, "Look, we invented this."

00:42:20 ◼   ► It's Apple saying, you know, "We've done all these things and made them into this product

00:42:25 ◼   ► that tells the story and that's different."

00:42:26 ◼   ► Should we take a break?

00:42:28 ◼   ► Yeah, let's do that.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Let's thank our friends over at Igloo and then we'll address some stuff about the watch

00:42:33 ◼   ► as well.

00:42:34 ◼   ► I want to thank Igloo, the internet you'll actually like for helping support this week's

00:42:38 ◼   ► episode of Upgrade. With igloo you can share news, organize your files, coordinate calendars

00:42:43 ◼   ► and manage all of your projects and tasks all in one place. It's a fantastic way for

00:42:49 ◼   ► you and your team to work together, socialise together no matter where they are in the world

00:42:53 ◼   ► because igloo's platform is fantastic. It works on all manner of devices. It's built

00:42:59 ◼   ► on the power of the responsive web. They use responsive design in all of their products

00:43:05 ◼   ► across the entire thing is what it's built on. It's a fantastic product that allows you

00:43:09 ◼   ► to make sure that when you're on a laptop, when you're on a phone, when you're on a tablet,

00:43:12 ◼   ► you can access everything. This can come from managing your tasks, maybe sharing a photo

00:43:17 ◼   ► of your lunch with your colleagues, maybe reading a document with a fantastic HTML5

00:43:22 ◼   ► backed document previewing engine, or even managing your settings. You can do all of

00:43:26 ◼   ► this on any device, wherever you want, however you want. I mentioned the document stuff a

00:43:30 ◼   ► a moment ago. Igloo's latest upgrade, Viking, it revolves all around documents and how you

00:43:35 ◼   ► interact with them. As well as beefing up their preview engine, this allows you to make

00:43:40 ◼   ► sure that you're always up to date with the latest version of a document as people upload

00:43:44 ◼   ► it to Igloo, they download it, it's really cool. But one of the new key things that they've

00:43:48 ◼   ► added is the ability to track who has read critical information. So imagine like a read

00:43:53 ◼   ► receipt in an email, you send an email off to somebody and then you get a notification

00:43:56 ◼   ► back to tell you that they've read it. So sometimes that's useful because you know it's

00:43:59 ◼   ► you can either question them about it or at least you know they've received it and it's good.

00:44:02 ◼   ► You could have implemented this to documents. So let's say for example you're sending around

00:44:06 ◼   ► a document to your colleagues which is a really essential piece of training documentation or legal

00:44:13 ◼   ► documentation and you have to know that people have seen it and so they need to acknowledge it.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Well you can do all of this now rather than like somebody running around the desk and getting

00:44:22 ◼   ► everybody to put their initial on a piece of paper like they used to do in my old office,

00:44:25 ◼   ► You would now, everyone just knows, like you should get a list of people who have seen it

00:44:29 ◼   ► and then you can just go and talk to or nudge to people that haven't.

00:44:32 ◼   ► It's really really cool and if you work in a company that has these kinds of needs,

00:44:36 ◼   ► which are probably many, this is a really really nice addition to igloos platform.

00:44:40 ◼   ► Igloo is super customisable, you can change how you want igloos to look

00:44:44 ◼   ► and what functions you want to have, you can even do this with certain groups

00:44:48 ◼   ► and all of the changes that you make show up everywhere, instantly.

00:44:51 ◼   ► If your company has a legacy intranet that looks like it was built in the 90s,

00:44:54 ◼   ► the 90s you should be giving igloo a try it's free to use of teams of up to 10

00:44:58 ◼   ► people and you can sign up right now igloo software.com/upgrade and

00:45:02 ◼   ► that will of course help out this show thank you so much to igloo for supporting

00:45:06 ◼   ► today and all of real AFM.

00:45:10 ◼   ► So we also have the watch what what has been your kind of feeling now about this

00:45:21 ◼   ► What is my feeling about the watch? I feel, uh, no, it's, um, I'm starting to feel desire

00:45:29 ◼   ► to buy the watch and use it. I've been thinking about it a lot more, and I mean, some of that

00:45:34 ◼   ► is just, "Oh, new thing is coming." Um, that happens, but I, you know, I like the approach

00:45:43 ◼   ► that Apple is taking. The presentation was simplified from the one six months ago. I

00:45:50 ◼   ► I think it's, you know, focusing on keeping your phone in your pocket is a good thing

00:45:58 ◼   ► or bag.

00:46:00 ◼   ► A lot of women don't have pockets for phones.

00:46:02 ◼   ► So having that thing on your wrist that you can very quickly see what's going on and look

00:46:11 ◼   ► something up and dismiss it and have it be these short interactions, a few seconds.

00:46:15 ◼   ► There have been pieces written that say, "Oh, no, this is even worse because it's going

00:46:19 ◼   ► to put your phone on your wrist and it's going to make our little bubbles that we live in

00:46:24 ◼   ► where we're not paying attention to the people around us even worse. That could be true,

00:46:28 ◼   ► but the more I hear about how Apple's trying to approach this, the more I start to think

00:46:33 ◼   ► that Apple is trying to do the reverse here. Apple is trying to make your interactions

00:46:39 ◼   ► with the data from the internet and from your phone faster and easier and more convenient

00:46:44 ◼   ► and more sort of seamless with the world around you.

00:46:47 ◼   ► And I think that's a good thing.

00:46:49 ◼   ► I think reducing the number of times

00:46:50 ◼   ► we have to pull out our phone and stare at it

00:46:53 ◼   ► in order to check on something,

00:46:55 ◼   ► that we can do it much more quickly with a glance even,

00:46:58 ◼   ► say, "Oh, that's not important,"

00:46:59 ◼   ► or very quickly go, "Glance, tap, tap, done,"

00:47:02 ◼   ► and then move on without having to get out our phone.

00:47:06 ◼   ► I think those are admirable things.

00:47:08 ◼   ► And if this device can pull that off,

00:47:11 ◼   ► I think that's gonna be really powerful.

00:47:13 ◼   ► the line that I've been using and I probably used on this show but I've used it on some

00:47:17 ◼   ► other shows and some presentations I've given is the line about how, you know, a hundred

00:47:23 ◼   ► years ago people decided that pocket watches were inconvenient and if we strapped a clock

00:47:29 ◼   ► to our wrists that would be more convenient and it worked. And I think that principle

00:47:35 ◼   ► may hold true again if it's done right. So I'm excited to try it out. I think that it

00:47:40 ◼   ► could have a lot of value that goes beyond just being seen as a, you know, a

00:47:45 ◼   ► redundant accessory for an iPhone and that pulling that phone out of your

00:47:49 ◼   ► pocket is good enough because if they do their job right with this thing it won't

00:47:54 ◼   ► be good enough. This will be better. This will make everything smoother and faster

00:47:58 ◼   ► and I do think it has the potential to do that so I'm getting excited about it.

00:48:04 ◼   ► What about the edition? Now we didn't really talk about the edition last week

00:48:09 ◼   ► and I haven't heard your thoughts on it. Now that we know kind of very basic

00:48:18 ◼   ► information about the edition, it's still shrouded in mystery which might be

00:48:22 ◼   ► you know part of the whole mystique of the thing. What is your personal feeling

00:48:28 ◼   ► on Apple offering a $17,000 watch?

00:48:35 ◼   ► So I'm going to turn this around and make it about people like us talking about this.

00:48:41 ◼   ► I think people are getting derailed by the edition and by the gold, the gold material

00:48:45 ◼   ► and the price. I keep seeing stories that use the edition as a jumping off point for

00:48:50 ◼   ► a rant about why Apple's totally lost the plot and they're doing crazy stuff with, for

00:48:56 ◼   ► super rich and they're losing what they're all about. But I actually think that Apple

00:49:01 ◼   ► was really soft peddling their talk about the addition. I do think the reason the Gold

00:49:06 ◼   ► video wasn't played, the reason that there was one that the price wasn't put up on the

00:49:10 ◼   ► screen and it was just sort of mentioned in passing is that, you know, Apple knows that

00:49:15 ◼   ► there are people out there who will spend a huge amount of money. These are the people

00:49:18 ◼   ► who will pay third parties to take iPhone cases apart

00:49:23 ◼   ► and replace them with the actual case,

00:49:27 ◼   ► not a case to wrap around the iPhone,

00:49:28 ◼   ► but replace the actual case of the iPhone

00:49:30 ◼   ► with carved wood or with solid gold

00:49:34 ◼   ► because they're super rich

00:49:36 ◼   ► and they want a super awesome iPhone

00:49:39 ◼   ► and they can afford to pay for that.

00:49:41 ◼   ► And I think there's a part of Apple that says,

00:49:43 ◼   ► why not us, why don't we do that?

00:49:47 ◼   ► And then when you talk about watches, there is a luxury segment to the watch.

00:49:50 ◼   ► There are people who want gold watches, and I can totally understand them saying, "Well,

00:49:54 ◼   ► we're just going to do a stainless steel watch and have everybody say, 'We're never going

00:49:56 ◼   ► to get the rich and famous to wear our watch if all we have is a stainless steel model.

00:50:02 ◼   ► We need a gold model.'"

00:50:03 ◼   ► And at that point, you're talking about it like, "Well, that's so impractical."

00:50:06 ◼   ► And I can totally see how that conversation becomes, "All right, fine.

00:50:10 ◼   ► Who's that market?

00:50:11 ◼   ► What's the market for a gold watch?

00:50:12 ◼   ► If we sold a gold watch for $10,000, would some people buy it?

00:50:17 ◼   ► Would that be the one that shows up in fashion spreads and in shots of celebrities on the

00:50:23 ◼   ► red carpet and all of that?

00:50:24 ◼   ► Yeah, probably so.

00:50:25 ◼   ► And that's the one that the very rich people will buy, and we'll make it a limited edition.

00:50:30 ◼   ► I think it's all tracks.

00:50:32 ◼   ► I think it's why would we turn those people away if they want to give us a lot of money

00:50:35 ◼   ► for a gold watch?

00:50:36 ◼   ► But the point of the watch is not the gold version.

00:50:39 ◼   ► And I think for its importance, maybe not culturally, but for its importance as a product,

00:50:49 ◼   ► it gets way too much attention.

00:50:50 ◼   ► In fact, we're giving it too much attention even by talking about it this way.

00:50:53 ◼   ► I think it's just been over-talked and that nobody's going to buy it.

00:50:58 ◼   ► The people who are going to buy it are people who've got lots and lots of money, and everybody

00:51:03 ◼   ► else is going to be buying the sport or the adjective-less version. And, you know, that

00:51:09 ◼   ► the product will live or die based on that and not the gold. So I think the gold is a

00:51:14 ◼   ► big distraction. And I think it's one of the reasons why Apple sort of underplayed the

00:51:17 ◼   ► gold model at the event was it's kind of, you know, it's kind of distracting people

00:51:24 ◼   ► from the actual product. And they don't want it to be seen as an unattainable product.

00:51:28 ◼   ► It is an attainable product. Like all of Apple's products, this is a, yes, it's a nice product.

00:51:33 ◼   ► And you could even argue that it's a luxury product, but it's also a luxury product that

00:51:36 ◼   ► starts at $350.

00:51:38 ◼   ► And I think that's important to Apple, that it not get lost in the $17,000 model, that

00:51:43 ◼   ► there is a $350 model.

00:51:44 ◼   ► I actually don't think they're going to sell this in Apple stores at all.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Well, they were very—I think they are going to sell it in select Apple stores.

00:51:53 ◼   ► I think somebody, maybe Matthew Panzareno, got them to say that it will be in select

00:51:59 ◼   ► Apple stores.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I think, is this where you're going with this?

00:52:04 ◼   ► I think that it'll be in high-end jewelry stores

00:52:06 ◼   ► and some Apple stores in really specific locations

00:52:10 ◼   ► that have the place to do the high-end kind of sales

00:52:15 ◼   ► and that's it.

00:52:16 ◼   ► It's gonna be a super exclusive,

00:52:17 ◼   ► it's gonna be where the people who shop

00:52:19 ◼   ► for the fancy stuff like this are.

00:52:21 ◼   ► It's not gonna be at the shopping mall

00:52:22 ◼   ► in your local Apple store.

00:52:23 ◼   ► - So the place is that I think it's gonna be,

00:52:25 ◼   ► I think you're gonna get it in Regent Street in London.

00:52:28 ◼   ► you're gonna get it in the New York glass cube one is that where is that is

00:52:34 ◼   ► that fifth Avenue yeah there'll be one of the Paris stores and like maybe a

00:52:39 ◼   ► store to in in China maybe one in Tokyo maybe one in Rome or Milan I think that

00:52:44 ◼   ► will be it and then outside of that they will use the existing facilities of

00:52:50 ◼   ► high-end department stores and I saw a picture today of a department store in

00:52:55 ◼   ► Tokyo, I saw this on Twitter, but it looks like it's having a pop-up shop fitted

00:53:00 ◼   ► into it. And I did see somebody tweet that Selfridges in London, a very large

00:53:06 ◼   ► fancy department store, will have them. It answers so many of the problems that

00:53:11 ◼   ► we've been asking ourselves for weeks as to how are they going to do this.

00:53:15 ◼   ► They do this by just not having to worry about it and use the existing stores,

00:53:21 ◼   ► those existing stores, all the security that they have, and just all the

00:53:26 ◼   ► facilities that they have and the environments that they have to make

00:53:30 ◼   ► people feel comfortable to buy these products. And they just kit them with

00:53:34 ◼   ► some very specifically trained Apple employees and that's how it's done.

00:53:38 ◼   ► And you go in by appointment and it's, you know, that's it. That's how

00:53:43 ◼   ► they'll do it. And that way they don't have to worry about any of the

00:53:47 ◼   ► stuff that we've been talking about about like teenagers selling $17,000

00:53:52 ◼   ► watches to millionaires.

00:53:54 ◼   ► "Would you like a gold watch?" We don't want that. I agree with you. I think there's a whole question about support and things like that and

00:54:02 ◼   ► service, but high-end watches, if you look, there are a limited number of places

00:54:06 ◼   ► that will service high-end watches too, and I'm sure that they would say, "Well, you

00:54:13 ◼   ► can come back to this store," and they would have a connection with

00:54:17 ◼   ► Apple and again it probably doesn't happen on site right it all gets shipped

00:54:21 ◼   ► somewhere but the yes sir very very well sir we'll get this back to you in a week

00:54:24 ◼   ► sir whatever it is. You just call the special telephone number that is in the box. Yeah

00:54:28 ◼   ► exactly right you just press you just press on the box and think about service

00:54:31 ◼   ► and it reads your mind and it teleports the watch to Apple but yeah or you take

00:54:37 ◼   ► it down to your Apple store and they have got a and they've got a concierge

00:54:41 ◼   ► service thing that happens where they just come out and go oh well thank you

00:54:44 ◼   ► very much, ma'am, that, you know, yes, indeed, we'll put it in this leather, you know, case

00:54:48 ◼   ► that's the special thing and it's magic and then we'll get it back to you immediately

00:54:52 ◼   ► in its service. I'm sure they'll work that stuff out. But having access in the places

00:54:56 ◼   ► where you would expect luxury, super luxury items to be sold is natural. Of course, that's

00:55:01 ◼   ► gonna happen. Good news, Angela Ahrendts knows people in the high-end luxury retail game.

00:55:06 ◼   ► So I think it's all gonna be fine. But yeah, I would expect that these will be in places

00:55:11 ◼   ► that are not traditional Apple stores,

00:55:13 ◼   ► as well as some of the highest of the fancy Apple stores.

00:55:17 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

00:55:18 ◼   ► Union Square in San Francisco and Fifth Avenue in London,

00:55:22 ◼   ► and there'll be some places like that,

00:55:24 ◼   ► and whatever fashionable district in China, for sure,

00:55:29 ◼   ► 'cause that's definitely a focus of Apple's too.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Anyway, one other item about the watch

00:55:34 ◼   ► that I wanted to talk about,

00:55:36 ◼   ► which is Greg Koenig, who does Luma Labs.

00:55:40 ◼   ► they do the Luma Loop, did a blog post on his site Atomic Delights talking about how

00:55:49 ◼   ► Apple makes the Apple Watch with lots and it's been linked a lot but I wanted to mention

00:55:53 ◼   ► it because it's great. I love that story. It is from somebody who knows a lot about

00:55:59 ◼   ► manufacturing about Apple's strengths in manufacturing and how for certain materials with certain

00:56:04 ◼   ► methods Apple is essentially the leader and we don't think of them I mean he starts by

00:56:09 ◼   ► saying Apple is the leader in manufactured goods in the world. And the way he puts it

00:56:15 ◼   ► is I used, at one time I would have said consumer goods are electronic goods, but as he puts

00:56:21 ◼   ► it last quarter Apple shipped a Boeing 787's weight worth of iPhones every day. And he

00:56:28 ◼   ► said when we add the rest of the product line to the mix, it becomes clear Apple supply

00:56:33 ◼   ► chain is one of the largest scale production organizations in the world. Apple is the world's

00:56:36 ◼   ► foremost manufacturer of goods." And then he talks in detail about how like Apple does

00:56:42 ◼   ► things with aluminum or aluminium, if you prefer, that nobody else does. I knew you're

00:56:48 ◼   ► like that. He says, "It would be hard to argue Apple isn't the world's foremost expert on

00:56:53 ◼   ► the volume production of high precision, high finish aluminum components." It's a fascinating

00:56:59 ◼   ► perspective on how one of Apple's great advantages is that Apple has not only the scale and the

00:57:05 ◼   ► money but the knowledge about making things, making physical objects, working

00:57:11 ◼   ► with metal, working on these massive machines that have to be used to process

00:57:17 ◼   ► this stuff. And so then he goes through the three videos that Apple showed.

00:57:21 ◼   ► And in a, you know, you know how nerds will do frame-by-frame analysis of an

00:57:29 ◼   ► Avengers trailer to say, "Look, those eyes, that must be the vision." And we know

00:57:34 ◼   ► that Paul Bettany is playing the vision and he played Jarvis and what does that mean?

00:57:37 ◼   ► Is Jarvis related to Ultron in some way? They'll do that kind of Zapruder analysis, the frame-by-frame

00:57:44 ◼   ► with the Zapruder film from the Kennedy assassination is what that reference is where people would

00:57:48 ◼   ► take it like in JFK the movie back and to the left back and to the left like we're through

00:57:52 ◼   ► the rabbit hole here people we're looking at every individual frame of this video and

00:57:56 ◼   ► it's going to tell us something. Well Greg does that with these three materials videos

00:57:59 ◼   ► gold, stainless steel, and aluminum.

00:58:04 ◼   ► And it's great.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And you don't have to be an engineer to appreciate it, because I'm not, and I really loved it.

00:58:10 ◼   ► I thought it was fascinating to see how they make this stuff and what it means about sort

00:58:14 ◼   ► of like Apple's expertise in areas that as users of your product would be completely

00:58:20 ◼   ► invisible to you, users of Apple's products, completely invisible.

00:58:24 ◼   ► But they still have to do them.

00:58:27 ◼   ► It's one of the ways Apple's products end up being as good as they are, is because of

00:58:32 ◼   ► this expertise that we don't even see. So it's fascinating. So I just wanted to put

00:58:35 ◼   ► in a plug for Greg's thing, because it's awesome. So we'll put the link in the show notes. It's

00:58:42 ◼   ► at AtomicDelights.com.

00:58:43 ◼   ► I've been thinking a bit about this kind of stuff recently, like having worked, I worked

00:58:49 ◼   ► for a massive, massive organization previously to this, and like, there are so many things

00:58:56 ◼   ► that Apple does that they don't have to do. And I think that's what

00:59:01 ◼   ► fundamentally sets them apart from everybody else. Like with the amount of

00:59:06 ◼   ► money that they make and these sorts of things, there are so many things, so many

00:59:10 ◼   ► details that they talk about, the things that they do with the way that they

00:59:14 ◼   ► produce these products, that they could actually just do it for cheaper or do it

00:59:20 ◼   ► easier but it just seems like that they make very specific decisions about the

00:59:24 ◼   ► where the products are made due to a level of care and love that some of

00:59:29 ◼   ► their competitors don't seem to have. I know I'm not saying nothing that's

00:59:32 ◼   ► new but from the perspective of somebody who worked in a really really

00:59:36 ◼   ► large organization and I have no doubt that Apple have their own organizational

00:59:40 ◼   ► issues and struggles like you know with a middle management level type you know

00:59:44 ◼   ► stuff that goes on on a day-to-day basis it just seems like so many of the

00:59:49 ◼   ► decisions and that they make come from a place which is very very different to

00:59:55 ◼   ► some of the other companies, especially companies of that size. Yeah, it's a lot

01:00:01 ◼   ► of Apple's competitors are companies that buy components and maybe they've

01:00:07 ◼   ► got some expertise in putting together a plastic shell or a metal shell, but Apple

01:00:11 ◼   ► because I think because of its history, because of it having to do a lot of

01:00:15 ◼   ► stuff itself and wanting to be self-reliant and build custom stuff, not the ADB ports

01:00:22 ◼   ► and serial ports and all of old, but we want—how do you stand out? How do you make something

01:00:27 ◼   ► different? And the unibody enclosures on the laptops were like that. They've ended up building

01:00:32 ◼   ► up this crazy expertise. When Tim Cook started at Apple, there was a time when Apple was

01:00:37 ◼   ► a kind of laughing stock in terms of its supply chain. It had way too much inventory. Dell

01:00:43 ◼   ► was held out as the extreme example of good kind of in-time inventory. You don't have

01:00:48 ◼   ► stuff hanging around in your warehouses or anything like that. Over the course of the

01:00:53 ◼   ► last 15 years or whatever, 15 or 20 years, Apple has become this monster of efficiency.

01:01:00 ◼   ► And that goes to all of these different parts of its business. And their competitors, you

01:01:05 ◼   ► know, I don't want to say they all don't do that, but most of them don't do most of it.

01:01:10 ◼   ► And you know, if you're Apple, people say, "Why is Apple so successful?

01:01:14 ◼   ► Why does Apple have so much market share and profit share in all these different categories?"

01:01:19 ◼   ► This is one reason why.

01:01:21 ◼   ► There was a story that I linked to a while ago that was in a similar vein to Greg Canig's

01:01:27 ◼   ► story, and it was about how it was from, I think, a venture capitalist or a president

01:01:34 ◼   ► of a startup saying, "Don't try to make your product at Apple's level of quality, because

01:01:40 ◼   ► you can't, because Apple has mastered this.

01:01:45 ◼   ► And if you're expecting Apple levels of fit and finish, give up.

01:01:49 ◼   ► That's what it's required.

01:01:50 ◼   ► You can't do it because only Apple can do that and maybe some others very few.

01:01:56 ◼   ► It is really a thing that they're great at."

01:01:58 ◼   ► And we see it in their products, but we don't know just how much goes on behind the scenes.

01:02:03 ◼   ► It's not like some of their competitors are choosing not to make products that have the

01:02:08 ◼   ► fit and finish of Apple's products.

01:02:09 ◼   ► It's that they can't.

01:02:11 ◼   ► And that's a huge advantage for Apple.

01:02:12 ◼   ► You probably can't afford it.

01:02:14 ◼   ► I would assume that a product like the MacBook, the margins on that at the moment must be

01:02:19 ◼   ► really bad, I would assume.

01:02:21 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Just by thinking about these things, if you've had to create new machinery and you've had

01:02:27 ◼   ► to spend all this time in R&D and all this time trying to work out how can we do this,

01:02:31 ◼   ► can we do this?" And you go round and round and round on it, and then eventually, you

01:02:35 ◼   ► know, ultimately you're creating tools, parts, machinery, processes. Like, it must be painful.

01:02:41 ◼   ► Paying your manufacturing company's money to buy, to build factories for you, which

01:02:47 ◼   ► is something that they do. "Here, just go build a factory to do this."

01:02:50 ◼   ► And, you know, because then ultimately they know that if they do that, they will be rolling

01:02:56 ◼   ► in cash after X amount of time. But the thing is, is other companies don't have the money

01:03:01 ◼   ► on hand where they can do that kind of stuff. You know what you're saying about inventory

01:03:05 ◼   ► management a moment ago? One thing that really helps your inventory management is when people

01:03:09 ◼   ► can't stop buying your products. That's a really great way to manage your inventory.

01:03:14 ◼   ► That does help. But yeah, it's just something I've been thinking about. They're just...

01:03:22 ◼   ► It's not new to anyone, but just when you see these new products, entirely new products

01:03:28 ◼   ► coming from Apple. It just gives you pause for thought when you watch those stunning

01:03:32 ◼   ► marketing videos.

01:03:34 ◼   ► It's true. Do we want to move on to Ask Upgrade now?

01:03:41 ◼   ► Yeah, we most definitely do. This week's episode features an Ask Upgrade segment that

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01:06:02 ◼   ► Indeed.

01:06:03 ◼   ► All right, do you want to ask me things?

01:06:07 ◼   ► Yes, oh, I'd love to ask you things. So this comes from a listener David, "The Retina MacBook Pro got the

01:06:12 ◼   ► false touch trackpad but not the keyboard change seen in the MacBook. Why, Jason?"

01:06:17 ◼   ► My guess is that they're not... That new MacBook keyboard doesn't have a lot of travel. It seems to

01:06:27 ◼   ► have been built very specifically for the super thin laptop and it's not really necessary in the

01:06:32 ◼   ► the retina MacBook Pro, they may even be waiting to see how people feel about that keyboard.

01:06:38 ◼   ► I'm on the fence about the keyboard. I'm pretty skeptical about it. It worked, but it felt

01:06:42 ◼   ► weird to me. I want to give it some time. I want to try one out for a while and judge

01:06:47 ◼   ► it, but that's asking a lot to get everybody who's using your Pro laptop to now use this

01:06:54 ◼   ► brand new, slightly weird keyboard. So I think it's some combination of it being new and

01:07:02 ◼   ► it being strange and it really being built for the super thin laptop and not being required

01:07:09 ◼   ► in the MacBook.

01:07:12 ◼   ► It strikes me that that keyboard is more of a compromise in order to get something that's

01:07:16 ◼   ► thin, whereas the Force Touch, I think Apple views that as being not a compromise, but

01:07:22 ◼   ► actually an enhancement that everybody could use and want the Force Touch trackpad, because

01:07:28 ◼   ► it not only is it thinner and then helps them build that thing thinner but it's

01:07:31 ◼   ► also better because it has the same features of a physical trackpad but you

01:07:35 ◼   ► can click all over it and you can you can use software to have multiple clicks

01:07:39 ◼   ► built into it and so I think that may be the difference is that you know they're

01:07:43 ◼   ► adding the thing that is is a feature enhancement and not the thing that is

01:07:47 ◼   ► more like a compromise.

01:07:50 ◼   ► So I have my own theory about this as well that the

01:07:54 ◼   ► force touch trackpad can be put into the existing MacBook case relatively easily

01:07:59 ◼   ► whilst the new keyboard if they did want to do it they would need to change the

01:08:04 ◼   ► spacing of the keys on the keyboard. It's just so it's such a radically different

01:08:07 ◼   ► thing yeah that may be too that it was a much easier swap although I don't know

01:08:11 ◼   ► I'm a little surprised that they that they swapped in the force touch trackpad

01:08:15 ◼   ► too but it may be that that was something they could do and that the

01:08:19 ◼   ► other they couldn't do without a bigger redesign of the of the product I don't

01:08:23 ◼   ► now. It's a good theory. Yeah, so there you go. This is from listener Scott. He had a

01:08:30 ◼   ► little thought. When you plug an iPhone into the new MacBook, does the iPhone charge the

01:08:34 ◼   ► Mac or the Mac the iPhone? That one made me laugh, you know. You could, it's bi-directional

01:08:41 ◼   ► charging. When they do a USB, I don't know whether USB-C can specifically say whether

01:08:47 ◼   ► something is charging or charged, whether a device can say I'm only available to be

01:08:52 ◼   ► charged and not to charge other things? I don't know. It's a good question. We'll have

01:08:57 ◼   ► to try that out, perhaps. But you will need I think you'll need a USB C. You'll need a

01:09:06 ◼   ► USB C iPhone for that to happen. And that may never happen because the the lightning

01:09:13 ◼   ► provides power out but does not know. No, it takes it both ways because it can power

01:09:17 ◼   ► a little device. I bet it can't power the amount of power that is required by the MacBook

01:09:21 ◼   ► though so I think it would probably say nope can't do that so with the adapter

01:09:25 ◼   ► we'll see it's a funny it's a funny idea one of the things that we should mention

01:09:31 ◼   ► is USB C being a standard you're gonna be able to have USB C chargers from

01:09:37 ◼   ► third parties that work with a MacBook which is great like external battery

01:09:40 ◼   ► packs and airline adapters and things like that because Apple's no longer

01:09:45 ◼   ► using a proprietary connector to charge the MacBook MagSafe was Apple proprietary

01:09:50 ◼   ► and that meant there weren't a lot of MagSafe things out there,

01:09:53 ◼   ► but there'll be a lot of USB-C things,

01:09:56 ◼   ► and that's good for the MacBook.

01:09:59 ◼   ► -Listener Jorge is interested to know if --

01:10:04 ◼   ► So he said the Space Gray,

01:10:05 ◼   ► so I think this is kind of the confusion,

01:10:08 ◼   ► but actually, is the Space Black watch

01:10:10 ◼   ► as dark as it appears in the picture?

01:10:11 ◼   ► -No. -Is it darker than the Space Gray

01:10:13 ◼   ► on the iPhone? -So here's the thing.

01:10:14 ◼   ► There is a Space Gray Apple Watch Sport,

01:10:18 ◼   ► and there is a space black apple watch adjective-less.

01:10:22 ◼   ► The space black is that shiny, it's in the video of the

01:10:26 ◼   ► it's the shiny diamond-like carbon that is added

01:10:30 ◼   ► on top of the stainless steel, whereas the space gray is an anodized

01:10:36 ◼   ► aluminum on the apple watch sport and

01:10:41 ◼   ► in the pictures it looks darker. I don't think I saw that one enough to judge it.

01:10:45 ◼   ► My guess is that it's the closest, but I don't know.

01:10:50 ◼   ► I can't confirm whether it is as dark.

01:10:53 ◼   ► It does appear darker in the pictures.

01:10:55 ◼   ► The one that's jet black is the space black though.

01:10:58 ◼   ► So they differentiate it with the space gray.

01:11:00 ◼   ► I, you know, remains to be seen.

01:11:02 ◼   ► My guess is that it may actually be a little bit darker

01:11:05 ◼   ► than the iPhone, but that could also just be

01:11:06 ◼   ► an optical illusion.

01:11:07 ◼   ► We held the gold iPhone against the gold aluminum

01:11:12 ◼   ► of the MacBook and they're basically the same.

01:11:15 ◼   ► So it looks like Apple wants these to be color matched.

01:11:18 ◼   ► So it would be a failing on their part

01:11:20 ◼   ► if they called something space gray and it didn't match.

01:11:22 ◼   ► So my hope is that it does and it's just photographic

01:11:24 ◼   ► but I can't confirm that.

01:11:25 ◼   ► - Cool.

01:11:28 ◼   ► What else do we have here?

01:11:29 ◼   ► So listener Nicholas, how does the watch connectivity work

01:11:33 ◼   ► when it's parent iPhone?

01:11:35 ◼   ► - When it and its parents iPhone

01:11:38 ◼   ► are on the same wifi network.

01:11:41 ◼   ► The watch has Wi-Fi, and this is a conversation

01:11:45 ◼   ► I heard somewhere last week.

01:11:46 ◼   ► I can't remember where this came up,

01:11:47 ◼   ► but the idea here, maybe it was on MacBreak Weekly,

01:11:51 ◼   ► the idea here is that if you've got a Pebble like I do,

01:11:55 ◼   ► and you walk 15 feet away from your iPhone,

01:11:57 ◼   ► 'cause your iPhone is charging somewhere,

01:11:59 ◼   ► it loses the connection, the Bluetooth connection drops.

01:12:02 ◼   ► Apple Watch has Wi-Fi and Bluetooth,

01:12:04 ◼   ► and apparently Apple has said that if your phone

01:12:07 ◼   ► and your watch are on the same Wi-Fi network,

01:12:09 ◼   ► they can still talk to each other.

01:12:10 ◼   ► So you can plug in your phone and then roam around your home

01:12:14 ◼   ► and it's all your same wifi network.

01:12:16 ◼   ► And as long as the watch is on wifi

01:12:17 ◼   ► and the iPhone is on wifi, they stay connected

01:12:19 ◼   ► and they stay sharing data, which is awesome.

01:12:22 ◼   ► That's a great feature because I'm not always

01:12:26 ◼   ► right next to my phone and my watch stays with me, right?

01:12:29 ◼   ► Because it's strapped to my wrist,

01:12:31 ◼   ► but I put my phone down sometimes.

01:12:33 ◼   ► So what this is saying is if you're on the same wifi network

01:12:36 ◼   ► as your phone, they'll stay in touch, which is cool.

01:12:39 ◼   ► And we have, this is someone from the chat room, D-N-W-R-L-D, Dan World is what I'm going

01:12:50 ◼   ► for.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Dan World.

01:12:52 ◼   ► Can we get a quick recap of what models you and Jason are leaning towards?

01:12:55 ◼   ► Jason, what are your thoughts?

01:12:56 ◼   ► Is it the gold with the red band?

01:12:59 ◼   ► Like you told me privately the other day you were going to buy?

01:13:03 ◼   ► It turns out the indie podcasting and writing thing is so lucrative that I'm able to buy

01:13:07 ◼   ► 17,000 dollar Apple Gold watch with no problems. I am torn. I am torn between the black sport

01:13:19 ◼   ► and then buying an add-on leather band because I do not believe that the fluoro elastomer band

01:13:31 ◼   ► will please me. So then I would buy the leather band and it wouldn't be an exact match but it

01:13:37 ◼   ► it would be cheaper, or buying the stainless steel in black with a leather band. Okay. But I'm gonna

01:13:53 ◼   ► go, although I also want to try the Milanese loop because I didn't get a chance to try that on

01:13:59 ◼   ► at the event, and I want to try that because I've had people say that it doesn't pull arm hairs and

01:14:04 ◼   ► stuff like that that it's super gentle and I want to see how it looks and how it feels and whether

01:14:09 ◼   ► I'd consider that instead of a leather band but I've been a leather watch band guy my whole life

01:14:16 ◼   ► I don't like the the plastic bands the first thing I did with my pebble in fact was replace the crappy

01:14:23 ◼   ► plastic band with a with a leather band so we'll see. So I'm going sport um definitely because I

01:14:31 ◼   ► like you just think for my taste the aluminium looks nicer than the steel and

01:14:37 ◼   ► we're gonna go with the standard silver one and I'm thinking I'm probably gonna

01:14:43 ◼   ► get just like a crazy bright coloured strap like I might go like blue or

01:14:47 ◼   ► something just for fun but I I will be buying another strap that I will wear on

01:14:52 ◼   ► a daily basis it will either be the black sport strap or I'll get one of the

01:14:57 ◼   ► other ones. For my secondary strap I'm not sure. I may just buy the black one

01:15:03 ◼   ► and then after I've had a bit more time I'm gonna go and take a look at some of

01:15:10 ◼   ► the others and get a feeling for what additional strap I want to buy. I am

01:15:16 ◼   ► tempted to go to an Apple store on April 10th but I'm also terrified of the thought.

01:15:19 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah I think you can make an appointment.

01:15:25 ◼   ► then I'll do that. To come see the watches. I will have already ordered mine but I

01:15:29 ◼   ► just want to go and take a look at the straps a bit more. Right, right. Yeah I

01:15:34 ◼   ► think one of the challenges I have between the sport and the

01:15:38 ◼   ► adjective list model is that the sport has got the you know it's the ionics

01:15:42 ◼   ► strengthened glass whereas the the adjective list one is the is the sapphire

01:15:50 ◼   ► so presumably it's more it's heavier but also a little more damage resistant but

01:15:59 ◼   ► I'm not sure whether that's enough of a thing to matter versus just choosing a

01:16:03 ◼   ► look but the black one the space gray actually that we talked about

01:16:07 ◼   ► earlier is the one that I'm very tempted to to get but but you know I haven't

01:16:13 ◼   ► decided 100% yet I just I'm tempted by the coming over to the dark side and I

01:16:17 ◼   ► I like the dark watch thing, so I'm thinking about that.

01:16:21 ◼   ► But I do like the stainless steel look, too.

01:16:23 ◼   ► It looks very nice.

01:16:25 ◼   ► -Listen to Kevin.

01:16:26 ◼   ► "Can you use Apple Pay on the Apple Watch

01:16:28 ◼   ► if you don't have an iPhone 6?"

01:16:30 ◼   ► -Yes.

01:16:32 ◼   ► I think we heard that from Apple or somebody.

01:16:35 ◼   ► I know at the event, somebody I talked to said

01:16:37 ◼   ► that it should work with the Apple --

01:16:39 ◼   ► or with the iPhone 5, that the secure thing in the watch

01:16:43 ◼   ► can be loaded with Apple Pay, and it should work.

01:16:47 ◼   ► I haven't confirmed that, but I believe that's the case, that you can actually use Apple

01:16:51 ◼   ► Pay on the watch.

01:16:52 ◼   ► >> I remember them saying that specifically, so that's great.

01:16:56 ◼   ► >> Yeah, that's awesome.

01:16:57 ◼   ► Right, because you can use the 5 with the watch, so you can also use the secure features

01:17:01 ◼   ► of the watch to use Apple Pay, even though you've got a 5.

01:17:05 ◼   ► That's cool.

01:17:06 ◼   ► >> So listener Dan Jason is interested how the kind of the feature to turn on and off

01:17:12 ◼   ► as you are raising it the watch to and from your face works and in reality is that a good

01:17:19 ◼   ► way to check the time?

01:17:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I only checked this briefly but it seemed to me that the whole idea here is the

01:17:25 ◼   ► sensors are paying attention and trying to divine from your movements whether you're

01:17:30 ◼   ► looking at it and it worked pretty well to me.

01:17:34 ◼   ► When I would lift my wrist or turn my wrist to look at it, it lit up and showed me the

01:17:38 ◼   ► time.

01:17:39 ◼   ► it seems to work pretty well.

01:17:41 ◼   ► That it's not like with the Pebble,

01:17:42 ◼   ► the screen's always on,

01:17:44 ◼   ► but the backlight turns on with a certain amount of like a

01:17:48 ◼   ► tap, but you really have to kind of like whack it hard to

01:17:51 ◼   ► get it to light up.

01:17:52 ◼   ► And the Apple watch, you know,

01:17:54 ◼   ► I would glance at it and it would have the screen would come

01:17:56 ◼   ► on and show me the time.

01:17:57 ◼   ► So that's how it should be.

01:17:59 ◼   ► So it seemed to work,

01:18:00 ◼   ► but I didn't spend a lot of time with it.

01:18:01 ◼   ► This is one of those products that, you know,

01:18:02 ◼   ► we're all going to really need to live with them to really

01:18:05 ◼   ► form more clear, clear opinions about them.

01:18:08 ◼   ► Yeah, see, because my feeling about the purple was it was so hard to come on so it doesn't

01:18:13 ◼   ► trigger accidentally and that was where they drew the line.

01:18:16 ◼   ► So it's like in daily use, does the Apple Watch turn on all the time?

01:18:20 ◼   ► You know, they're the things that we don't know yet which we'll have to wait and see.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Has Apple really nailed it or is it more sensitive?

01:18:29 ◼   ► We'll have to wait.

01:18:30 ◼   ► Okay, so this is from listener Timokas.

01:18:33 ◼   ► What a great name.

01:18:34 ◼   ► I want to know how to say that properly.

01:18:36 ◼   ► That is a great name.

01:18:38 ◼   ► Do you agree that all iOS devices will be false sensitive this year, so a false touch?

01:18:43 ◼   ► I don't.

01:18:44 ◼   ► I think the iPad will be next and then the iPhone will wait for iPhone 7.

01:18:49 ◼   ► I don't think that...

01:18:51 ◼   ► I think that's too big of a thing for the S, but I would love to be corrected.

01:18:57 ◼   ► But I would be surprised if we saw it in the iPhone 6 Plus S's.

01:19:04 ◼   ► I agree with your general premise that this is not going to happen this year in all devices.

01:19:11 ◼   ► I think there's a decent chance that it could happen in an updated iPhone or an updated

01:19:18 ◼   ► iPad.

01:19:19 ◼   ► I think I'm not sure.

01:19:23 ◼   ► The iPad might be a little more likely, but I think it's possible it would happen in the

01:19:26 ◼   ► iPad Air and in the iPhone.

01:19:29 ◼   ► They're both chances.

01:19:31 ◼   ► All iOS devices I think not because I think the iPad mini is going to be lagging behind

01:19:36 ◼   ► now one generation at least behind the iPad Air.

01:19:41 ◼   ► Kind of where it should have been always.

01:19:43 ◼   ► Boo, boo-sss.

01:19:45 ◼   ► Well, no, I mean like they, but then Apple kind of...

01:19:48 ◼   ► I'm an iPad mini user so I'd really rather it stay, have stayed on the line with the

01:19:55 ◼   ► iPad Air instead of going back a step.

01:19:57 ◼   ► I agree. I mean I do agree that naturally but I just think that there I think that that time when it matched up was a

01:20:03 ◼   ► Was a I don't know why they did that but it was maybe a mistake

01:20:07 ◼   ► To trick people into thinking that this was gonna be what happened that the iPad main was gonna be this tiny powerhouse

01:20:16 ◼   ► Yeah, well not anymore

01:20:18 ◼   ► But anyway, I do think that iOS devices are going to get for sensitivity and and taptic engine

01:20:24 ◼   ► I think that's going to happen and we'll see it start to spread into the line from one

01:20:29 ◼   ► device or the other.

01:20:30 ◼   ► I think that'll happen.

01:20:31 ◼   ► I think the home button being replaced with a location that you touch and that gives you

01:20:37 ◼   ► taptic feedback so that they don't have to have the moving in and out home button anymore.

01:20:42 ◼   ► And moving in and out touch ID sensor, they can keep that a non-moving part.

01:20:47 ◼   ► I think that would probably be preferable.

01:20:49 ◼   ► So I think it's going to happen.

01:20:50 ◼   ► I think it's just a matter of time.

01:20:52 ◼   ► I don't think all will be this year, but I would not be surprised to see an iOS device

01:20:57 ◼   ► with force sensitivity this year.

01:21:01 ◼   ► False touch is the new retina.

01:21:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

01:21:05 ◼   ► I think Apple feels like this is a thing that they can innovate with, and that's why.

01:21:10 ◼   ► Like putting it in the Mac and having those shortcuts, that seems to be them saying this

01:21:16 ◼   ► is going to come everywhere in the Mac, because they've added all these different gestures

01:21:22 ◼   ► now on the Mac and they only work on one laptop, or two laptops with a 13 Retina update. So

01:21:29 ◼   ► that's going to have to change because right now it's just this, you know, you can't count

01:21:33 ◼   ► on that gesture being there.

01:21:35 ◼   ► This is from Phil. How many years until Apple devices are shipping with only USB-C ports

01:21:41 ◼   ► including iPhones and iPads?

01:21:43 ◼   ► Ha ha! I love these specific things that make the question easier to answer. I'm not sure

01:21:49 ◼   ► I believe that iPhones and iPads will ship with only USB-C ports for years, if ever.

01:21:56 ◼   ► I'm not sure that's a drop-in replacement for Lightning. You know, Apple appears to

01:22:01 ◼   ► have had advanced knowledge of USB-C and still gone ahead building Lightning. Lightning is

01:22:08 ◼   ► thinner. Lightning has some very specific features that Apple wants iOS devices to have.

01:22:15 ◼   ► gets to control that port and choose what connects to it because they own the

01:22:19 ◼   ► connector and they have to license it. I think I think every Mac that's sold will

01:22:28 ◼   ► have a USB C port by the end of next year. Because they'll just update the

01:22:35 ◼   ► whole line irrespective of anything else maybe. Yeah and there'll be some straggler you

01:22:39 ◼   ► know there'll be some straggler but in the fall there'll be new Macs there'll

01:22:42 ◼   ► be iMacs that have a USB-C port and eventually the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro will add USB-C

01:22:50 ◼   ► ports and so I think I feel like 2016 might be a good like end of 2016. All the new systems

01:22:56 ◼   ► maybe there'll still be something kicking around that's like an old model that's still

01:22:59 ◼   ► for sale like the non-Retina MacBook Pro but I think we're gonna see USB-C not only well

01:23:07 ◼   ► they're saying only USB-C I don't see that happening for years that's gonna be a long

01:23:11 ◼   ► time before we have only USB-C even on the Mac. I think it'll appear in the next year

01:23:15 ◼   ► and a half but only... That doesn't make sense. That's never, never,

01:23:21 ◼   ► never I would say because there will always be other ports on Macs.

01:23:24 ◼   ► It doesn't make sense to replace everything. Yeah, on every model, yeah, I don't think

01:23:30 ◼   ► so. The fact that Apple never went with mini-USB

01:23:35 ◼   ► tells you everything you need to know about the iPhone and the iPad in my opinion because

01:23:39 ◼   ► they could have solved the 30 pin size problem with one of those bad boys a long time ago.

01:23:46 ◼   ► They even went so far as to create this EU specific weird adapter because of EU laws

01:23:51 ◼   ► that make them do it. They're never gonna go with a non-controllable, completely Apple

01:23:57 ◼   ► controllable standard on iOS and iPad because they don't need to.

01:24:01 ◼   ► So thanks to Phil for throwing in enough absolutes that it made it a much easier question.

01:24:05 ◼   ► - Yep, and also to prove how wrong we'll be in the future.

01:24:08 ◼   ► So I look forward to that.

01:24:09 ◼   ► And finally today, this is from Mark.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Is Apple Watch considered an iOS device

01:24:14 ◼   ► or is it a third OS?

01:24:16 ◼   ► That's a really great question.

01:24:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is.

01:24:18 ◼   ► My guess is that we'll consider it an iOS device

01:24:20 ◼   ► like we consider the Apple TV an iOS device,

01:24:23 ◼   ► because I think from a development standpoint,

01:24:26 ◼   ► you know, watch kit and everything that's going on,

01:24:28 ◼   ► this is all coming from an iOS perspective.

01:24:31 ◼   ► So I'm gonna guess that when developers can compile apps

01:24:35 ◼   ► that actually run on the watch, they will be iOS apps with some very specific

01:24:42 ◼   ► traits, but they will be iOS apps is my guess. So I think this is going to

01:24:46 ◼   ► be an iOS app in the--or iOS device in the same way as the Apple TV, which is you

01:24:51 ◼   ► kind of don't think of it as that, and it's not the mainstream iOS, it's a

01:24:55 ◼   ► variation, but I think in the end we will probably just consider this an

01:24:59 ◼   ► iOS app.

01:25:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like maybe it's more than the Apple TV, because it shares more parallels

01:25:07 ◼   ► with other iOS devices than the Apple TV does. Like the Apple TV interface is like web-based,

01:25:13 ◼   ► right? It's this weird thing, like stuff could just show up. And also, you know, developers can

01:25:18 ◼   ► develop for it, there's an app store for it. Like it feels more iOS than the Apple TV does to me,

01:25:25 ◼   ► anyway. Yeah, well the Apple TV, I think everybody's hoping that they will eventually

01:25:29 ◼   ► announced in Apple TV that has developer access to develop apps that are more

01:25:34 ◼   ► than the the really simple things that are in there now but that just that

01:25:37 ◼   ► rumors been out there for a while it just hasn't happened yet but the

01:25:40 ◼   ► potential is there but I think you're right out of the box the the watch is

01:25:43 ◼   ► gonna feel more like an iOS device than Apple TV that's the end that is it

01:25:49 ◼   ► excellent stuff thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of

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