Upgrade

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00:00:03 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 35.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by lynda.com,

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00:00:17 ◼   ► created by industry experts for a 10-day free trial.

00:00:20 ◼   ► You should head over to lynda.com/upgrade.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Mail route, a secure, hosted email service

00:00:24 ◼   ► for protection from viruses and spam, and making light.

00:00:27 ◼   ► craft a daily ritual to focus on what matters most.

00:00:31 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by the jet ride-in,

00:00:34 ◼   ► limousine ride-in, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:37 ◼   ► - I think technically maybe I have done those things today.

00:00:40 ◼   ► 'Cause I called an Uber to go to the airport.

00:00:43 ◼   ► - That works as a limousine I guess.

00:00:44 ◼   ► - It wasn't really a limousine,

00:00:45 ◼   ► it was like a Honda Accord or something, but yeah.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Toyota Camry.

00:00:49 ◼   ► - It's traveling style.

00:00:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, hi Myke, how's it going?

00:00:51 ◼   ► - I am very well sir, how the devil are you?

00:00:54 ◼   ► - Oh, it's good to be home,

00:00:54 ◼   ► it's good to be back in proper time.

00:00:57 ◼   ► I was in evil time for a while, but now I'm back in proper time.

00:01:00 ◼   ► Good.

00:01:01 ◼   ► On the West Coast, back in the best coast, back in my chair for the first time in a week,

00:01:06 ◼   ► and glad to have my crazy six weeks of mostly travel behind me.

00:01:11 ◼   ► So you've been out in New York and Boston.

00:01:13 ◼   ► You recorded a couple of shows with people in person.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Did you record Clockwise?

00:01:18 ◼   ► I recorded Clockwise in Lex Friedman's office.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:01:22 ◼   ► But Lex wasn't on it.

00:01:24 ◼   ► And then-

00:01:25 ◼   ► For Lex!

00:01:26 ◼   ► Well, he didn't really have a two-person recording setup, and I had already scheduled a guess,

00:01:31 ◼   ► so it was fine.

00:01:32 ◼   ► Then he recorded The Rebound with Dan Morin and John Moltz, and I wasn't on that.

00:01:36 ◼   ► I was working while they were in there doing that.

00:01:38 ◼   ► And then in Dan Morin's living room, we recorded this week's Incomparable, and went from, you

00:01:44 ◼   ► know, usually we bank an episode for six weeks or something lately, and this one went from

00:01:48 ◼   ► recording to posted in about 15 minutes.

00:01:53 ◼   ► And I had to take out one F-bomb that Ms. Caldwell dropped, and everybody looked at

00:01:56 ◼   ► her, not because she's, you know, "Language, please."

00:01:59 ◼   ► It's an Avengers reference, but they looked at her because they knew that this means I

00:02:04 ◼   ► had to actually edit the episode very poorly.

00:02:07 ◼   ► I just like found the F-bomb, took it out, and now it just is a jump cut.

00:02:11 ◼   ► But I did that, and then we did a TV.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Our Game of Thrones, one of the regulars on our Game of Thrones podcast thing is Brian

00:02:19 ◼   ► Hamilton, and he's in Boston too.

00:02:20 ◼   ► So he came over to Dan's place and Dan Morin and Tony Sintolar and Brian Hamilton and I

00:02:24 ◼   ► watched an episode of Game of Thrones and did a little podcast about that.

00:02:27 ◼   ► And then I went to sleep and got up at an ungodly hour to come back to the West Coast.

00:02:32 ◼   ► You're happy to be back in the West Coast?

00:02:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it's good to be home.

00:02:37 ◼   ► Although it's way warmer in Boston than in San Francisco today.

00:02:39 ◼   ► Wait, what?

00:02:40 ◼   ► That's not how it works.

00:02:41 ◼   ► That's not what you preach.

00:02:42 ◼   ► No, that is.

00:02:43 ◼   ► There's a moment where the switch flips and suddenly it's always hotter in Boston than

00:02:48 ◼   ► San Francisco.

00:02:49 ◼   ► half the year it's always colder and then it's always hotter and now they're

00:02:52 ◼   ► gonna have like an 80 degree day today so not like that here that's okay that's

00:02:56 ◼   ► that's they're gonna be hot and miserable pretty soon they've had such a terrible

00:02:59 ◼   ► winter that they deserve their their little spring that they're getting I

00:03:03 ◼   ► hope you don't get the snow I hope that's not how that would that does not

00:03:07 ◼   ► how that works okay good no that would be upsetting you you'd end up I think

00:03:12 ◼   ► just stuck in the garage and you just have to stay there yep that was one of

00:03:17 ◼   ► those things by the way did you notice I said garage? Yeah yeah I see it's just

00:03:22 ◼   ► like just like when you you were spelling things you spelled like honor

00:03:27 ◼   ► or something without the U and it was just horrible and now you just said

00:03:30 ◼   ► garage instead of garage. Should be garage I'm sorry everybody.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Yeah. Can't help it. We'll revoke your monocle and top hat if you keep that up. Also Dan

00:03:38 ◼   ► Morin who does not have enough has not gotten enough of me in the last few days

00:03:42 ◼   ► is in our chat room so hi Dan. It's been a great week in my fair country by the

00:03:46 ◼   ► way. Oh yes? Yes, I hear a royal baby was born. You would be correct. And we have

00:03:53 ◼   ► Princess Charlotte Elizabeth Diane. That's what we have, which is Diana, sorry. I think

00:03:58 ◼   ► it's Diana. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Now again, I wonder who they named that after.

00:04:03 ◼   ► Anyway. And Elizabeth. And Elizabeth, yes, of course, that's a good name. Yeah, it's

00:04:09 ◼   ► nice. I like these things. Yep. Well, Pip Pip and cheerio to you. Congratulations to

00:04:15 ◼   ► all of the United England Kingdom. I don't know why I felt like I had to mention that,

00:04:20 ◼   ► like, they listen, you know? Just in case. They have a livestream. Shout out to the Winsors.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right, good. Big week. Nice. Hey, babies are nice. It's good that people

00:04:33 ◼   ► are having babies. That's nice. Keeps the human race going. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Generations

00:04:38 ◼   ► of future tabloid journalists are very thrilled that there's another princess in the world

00:04:41 ◼   ► now. Indeed. These things do fill me with pride. Patriotism? Yeah, it's nice. It is

00:04:50 ◼   ► very nice. Do you say patriotism? No. Ooh, I don't know anymore. I would say patriotism,

00:04:55 ◼   ► but I don't know. But you may not be English anymore, so. Yeah. Alright, fair enough. Who

00:05:00 ◼   ► knows. Should we do some follow-up? I think that's a really good idea. So we have self-identified

00:05:04 ◼   ► Upgrading Pete. I like the club of self-identifiers, by the way. Yes. This is something that Pete

00:05:11 ◼   ► that Pete was writing in about his Apple Watch.

00:05:13 ◼   ► My Apple Watch experience got a lot better

00:05:15 ◼   ► when I got over the compulsion to return the watch face,

00:05:18 ◼   ► to the watch face after I was done with an app.

00:05:20 ◼   ► Truth is, the watch returns itself to the face

00:05:23 ◼   ► after you drop your wrist and wait for a minute or two.

00:05:25 ◼   ► And my habit of using an app, finishing it,

00:05:27 ◼   ► and then resetting the watch to the watch face

00:05:29 ◼   ► before I dropped my wrist was unnecessary.

00:05:31 ◼   ► I've trained myself to use an app

00:05:33 ◼   ► and just lower my wrist when I'm done.

00:05:35 ◼   ► After a few days, it feels natural.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So a couple of things about this,

00:05:37 ◼   ► so just to clarify that and wrap it up,

00:05:39 ◼   ► About the idea that like instead of having to take yourself back to the watch face

00:05:43 ◼   ► The watch will do itself now. You can actually change that perfectly can change that

00:05:48 ◼   ► I believe yeah in the in the app

00:05:50 ◼   ► You can change where what happens that you go whether you go back to the app or whether you go back to the watch face

00:05:55 ◼   ► after some timeout period

00:05:57 ◼   ► So I wanted to I mean and I have a good tip for anybody that's missed it

00:06:01 ◼   ► You can then just double tap the crown and it will take you back to the most recently used app

00:06:05 ◼   ► Which I've been using a lot

00:06:07 ◼   ► that's a good top tip but I'm going to bring this up because that is a good

00:06:10 ◼   ► piece of follow-up is just like a usage thing from Pete but I want to ask you

00:06:15 ◼   ► this Jason I am a little bit neurotic with my phone I before I lock my iPhone

00:06:21 ◼   ► I must return it to the first home screen if I if somebody takes my phone

00:06:27 ◼   ► and they do something unlock it and I see what they've done I have to unlock

00:06:31 ◼   ► it put it back to the first home screen and lock it again so this this idea of

00:06:35 ◼   ► the watch doing itself is quite pleasing to me after any utility is done. So you

00:06:40 ◼   ► know in theory like a minute within a minute there might be things I'm still

00:06:44 ◼   ► doing and the watch is turning itself off right so I don't want it to do that

00:06:47 ◼   ► because it turns itself off so quickly but I wanted to wonder one do you find

00:06:51 ◼   ► the idea of it returning to the watch face helpful and two what do you do when

00:06:55 ◼   ► you lock your phone? Are you crazy like me or are you normal like everybody else?

00:06:58 ◼   ► I am not crazy like you although sometimes I will do that but I'm doing

00:07:05 ◼   ► it less because I'm reminded that I don't need to worry about it. And the most likely scenario is,

00:07:09 ◼   ► I might want to go back there soon. I actually have wondered about changing that setting to the

00:07:16 ◼   ► returns to the app because I try not to use apps very much, but when I do use them, I get a little

00:07:21 ◼   ► frustrated that I go back a little bit too much later and then I have to go find the app again,

00:07:27 ◼   ► or I guess double tap to go back to the app. I didn't even know about the double tap thing.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Somebody instructed me that this little piece of paper that I ignored that was on top of

00:07:36 ◼   ► the, or was like in the little envelope with the extra band that says Apple Watch on it,

00:07:40 ◼   ► and has instructions on how to put on a watch band, which I thought was ridiculous.

00:07:44 ◼   ► If you unfold it, on the other side, there's actually like a little set of watch tips that

00:07:49 ◼   ► I completely, or it's on that same side, in fact, little watch tips that I missed, because

00:07:53 ◼   ► it's like, you could charge it, and it has a watch face.

00:07:56 ◼   ► But it turns out it's also got a little diagram where it says double click for last app, which

00:08:01 ◼   ► I didn't know.

00:08:02 ◼   ► >> Yeah, it's like a mini user guide hiding in there.

00:08:04 ◼   ► >> Yeah, so it's not exactly a manual.

00:08:06 ◼   ► It is literally, I think, packing material, but they printed some things on it that are

00:08:11 ◼   ► kind of interesting.

00:08:12 ◼   ► But I don't do that.

00:08:15 ◼   ► I don't worry about it anymore.

00:08:16 ◼   ► I've learned...

00:08:18 ◼   ► It's a learning experience, right?

00:08:19 ◼   ► We've been talking about the 1.0 experience and one of those things.

00:08:22 ◼   ► I've learned to not worry about what state my watch is in.

00:08:27 ◼   ► that you know if if I just put my wrist down it's just it's going to take care of itself.

00:08:32 ◼   ► I don't need to worry about it. It's going to roll that up into the notifications list

00:08:36 ◼   ► if I ignore it and it's going to go back to the watch face and everything's fine so don't

00:08:41 ◼   ► worry about it.

00:08:42 ◼   ► What did you think of the packaging in general? We didn't really talk about that last week.

00:08:46 ◼   ► We both got the sport so bear in mind the sport and the steel they have different packaging.

00:08:51 ◼   ► They do. I was impressed I think I said on six colors that you know does anybody box

00:08:57 ◼   ► better than Apple. You can make a Floyd Mayweather joke here, but I'm not going to do that.

00:09:03 ◼   ► Well done.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Ding, ding. Now you got to do the two because that would be the boxing bell, right? Ding,

00:09:08 ◼   ► ding. But they do such a great job. It's a beautiful box. I mean, I laughed because it's

00:09:12 ◼   ► kind of ridiculous. I kind of expected it to come in like a blister pack. You know,

00:09:17 ◼   ► just there's a watch here and you rip it out. I mean, maybe not. But the fact that there's

00:09:21 ◼   ► this big heavy cardboard box and inside it there's the long plastic watch, fancy watch

00:09:27 ◼   ► box and inside that is the watch and then there's this extra little thing that you pull

00:09:35 ◼   ► out that's got the extra band in it and all of that. I mean it's elaborate, it's nice.

00:09:40 ◼   ► I mean this is, they're trying to send the message that you know you're buying a $400,

00:09:45 ◼   ► know, $350 at least dollar product when you buy one of these. And so I thought it was—I

00:09:52 ◼   ► was impressed by it. I mean, it's theatrical and it's maybe a little bit silly, but they

00:09:58 ◼   ► do a really great job trying to make you have that feel of like, "Oh, this is an experience

00:10:01 ◼   ► to open this box." And we joke about unboxing and stuff like that, but it is kind of—you

00:10:05 ◼   ► do—you just got this thing you spent a lot of money on. It does kind of feel good to

00:10:08 ◼   ► have it be, you know, a little unveiling happen in your house while it's going on. What did

00:10:13 ◼   ► you think?

00:10:14 ◼   ► I want to come back to the box in a moment. I did think there was way too much packaging

00:10:21 ◼   ► in this and it reminded me of all kind of like first as Apple's product generations

00:10:27 ◼   ► go on the packaging gets smaller and smaller.

00:10:31 ◼   ► Yeah like the original iPad box that big cube and it had a whole bunch of stuff in it. I

00:10:38 ◼   ► was taken by the fact that inside the giant thick heavy cardboard box there was a giant

00:10:44 ◼   ► plastic thing because I also thought Apple kind of got away from unnecessary plastic

00:10:49 ◼   ► in their packaging. So I expected the watch to be in the box, not in a plastic thing in

00:10:55 ◼   ► the box because it's I mean literally the whole idea was they were simplifying their

00:10:59 ◼   ► packaging and using less kind of bad materials but and it's because luxury as we would say

00:11:05 ◼   ► but still you've got a plastic insert inside a plastic box inside a tray inside a giant

00:11:13 ◼   ► cardboard box. And it did kind of overlap with the Apple and the Environment film

00:11:18 ◼   ► you know? Where they're saying about like how much better they are and I'm sure look I'm

00:11:23 ◼   ► sure that all of that stuff is like super like made of recycled materials

00:11:27 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff but it does pose a weird... Do we need the big

00:11:31 ◼   ► plastic thing? I guess it's a watch case and they wanted to say look it's just

00:11:34 ◼   ► like every other watch it comes with a little watch case that you can that you

00:11:37 ◼   ► can have but it seemed kind of wasteful to me. But the boxes themselves, the

00:11:41 ◼   ► design is probably purposefully reminiscent of swatch what boxes you

00:11:47 ◼   ► familiar swatch watches yes I never I've never had one but I was Myke I grew up

00:11:52 ◼   ► in the 80s I am I am from the swatch watches from that era like laid out flat

00:11:58 ◼   ► in these long plastic boxes I'll include a Google image search in the show notes

00:12:04 ◼   ► so you can see them nice they used to come in and you would open them in the

00:12:08 ◼   ► same way that you pop them open on one side and they would fold open it's very

00:12:11 ◼   ► similar to that and I think that that is a cue and I'm sure I saw somewhere when

00:12:17 ◼   ► there was like some images I think in like a AppleCare document or something

00:12:22 ◼   ► or on 9to5max at some point before the watch was released or it might have been

00:12:27 ◼   ► WWDC images something like that that someone was talking about I think Johnny

00:12:32 ◼   ► I saying that he used to like swatch watches or something when he was a kid I

00:12:35 ◼   ► could have just made all of that up but we'll go with that anyway but they did

00:12:39 ◼   ► remind me that and I liked it. I thought the packaging, I thought the whole unboxing experience,

00:12:43 ◼   ► which Apple is so good for and it's part of the whole product, I thought that that was

00:12:47 ◼   ► a really great, but I would also like to see them slim that down a bit for the next one

00:12:51 ◼   ► because it maybe was a bit superfluous in some places.

00:12:54 ◼   ► >> We know they can do this and they do a great job at it, but it did, I noticed that

00:12:59 ◼   ► it felt like it was one layer too many, and again, you're going to hear from people, like

00:13:03 ◼   ► watch people especially, who are going to say, "You've got to have the box. You've got

00:13:07 ◼   ► have the watch box, but they had the big box and then the little box and it just, and it's

00:13:11 ◼   ► the big heavy box. It's not like a flimsy outside box that has the, then you get to

00:13:15 ◼   ► the inner box and you're like, "Oh, here's where the real watch box is." It was like

00:13:19 ◼   ► a giant box that would normally have a computer in it and inside that is a plastic box and

00:13:24 ◼   ► inside that is a watch. But it's beautiful and it certainly makes the whole thing an

00:13:29 ◼   ► experience and that is part of what this is about and that's what Apple excels at. So

00:13:32 ◼   ► I, you know, I can't fault them too much, but it did feel a little bit over the top.

00:13:36 ◼   ► it was pretty cool. And it took, I swear it took less than an hour when people started

00:13:42 ◼   ► getting them for somebody to point out that if you, how should I phrase this, if you remove

00:13:48 ◼   ► the extra watch band that comes with it that's tucked away in that little thing and then

00:13:52 ◼   ► just look at the insert and have a childish mind, a juvenile mind, you will laugh because

00:14:01 ◼   ► there's a shape that is really stupidly juvenile. Yeah. And I cannot believe that got past

00:14:06 ◼   ► quality control. Because there's a long part with the watch band and then there's a more

00:14:13 ◼   ► bulbous part. Anyway. Kind of like real genius. Yeah but it is it's like real genius. Real

00:14:19 ◼   ► genius would say you know can you do that with a watch? Maybe. Yeah. Alex wrote in to

00:14:27 ◼   ► ask us about what we thought about T9 input for the watch. This is my favorite Apple Watch

00:14:33 ◼   ► question ever. So T9 input for people that are maybe not familiar was a type

00:14:37 ◼   ► of predictive texting before phones had full keyboards and you would basically

00:14:42 ◼   ► you would be able to type with the number pad and each number I think from

00:14:46 ◼   ► number two onwards would have a letters add letters associated with it. So it would be like

00:14:51 ◼   ► 2 would be ABC, 3 would be DEF and so on. Yeah. And you would before predictive texting you

00:14:57 ◼   ► would have to type them out so if you wanted the letter C you'd have to type

00:15:00 ◼   ► the number two three times but quite quickly right so you'd be like "d-d-d" and be like

00:15:03 ◼   ► "c" and then you go to "e" and then "d-d" on three. Anyway then T9 came along where

00:15:09 ◼   ► you would just tap the letters once and the the phone would work out what you

00:15:13 ◼   ► were trying to say so what Alex is saying is what about T9 input for the

00:15:18 ◼   ► watch as a way to remove the amount of keys needed to be displayed on screen

00:15:23 ◼   ► and we're already seeing calculators so in theory there is enough space. Jason

00:15:26 ◼   ► what do you think about T9 input?

00:15:30 ◼   ► I don't even know how to answer this question.

00:15:32 ◼   ► I think it's, if you know, maybe somebody should write an app that is the T9 app for

00:15:38 ◼   ► the Apple Watch, but it just, you know, I find, what I'd say is I think voice dictation

00:15:42 ◼   ► is doing, is great.

00:15:45 ◼   ► And you also have your phone nearby.

00:15:46 ◼   ► I found Siri to be good.

00:15:48 ◼   ► I found the predictive answers to be okay.

00:15:51 ◼   ► And I've also found the fact that you can set six of your own to be very, very useful

00:15:56 ◼   ► because I have some messages that I reply to people that are extremely similar and I now have like

00:16:02 ◼   ► canned responses. You can do this if you don't know in the messages portion of the

00:16:07 ◼   ► watch app. So on the watch app on the phone in messages there is a section which says

00:16:16 ◼   ► "default replies" and you can set six default replies which will show up in the default replies

00:16:22 ◼   ► when you go for a message. Sometimes they're at the top, sometimes at the bottom, I don't

00:16:25 ◼   ► know why that happens, but there you go, you can do that. So they're there for you.

00:16:30 ◼   ► What have you put in there? Like cheers mate, ahoy, telephone.

00:16:34 ◼   ► Every day my mom texts me and asks me how I am and every time I say I'm all good and

00:16:39 ◼   ► send a little X as a kiss, that's in there. And then a couple of just standard things

00:16:44 ◼   ► that I'll say to my girlfriend. So yeah, there we go. I think I've spoken maybe on other

00:16:49 ◼   ► shows and maybe on this show that we have like similar messages that we send

00:16:52 ◼   ► each other. Many couples have their own little language that they have you know

00:16:55 ◼   ► the words that they say so I have some of those in there as well. That's nice.

00:16:58 ◼   ► But we're gonna get to this. She's bought an Apple watch for her own but we're

00:17:03 ◼   ► gonna get to this. This is something I want to talk about today after we thank our

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00:19:51 ◼   ► So I'll bump this up in the topic list because I mentioned it now.

00:19:54 ◼   ► So this weekend my girlfriend ordered an Apple Watch which I was surprised about.

00:20:01 ◼   ► She'd mentioned wanting one and when we went to the store for the try on she really liked

00:20:06 ◼   ► it and kind of decided that she was going to get one.

00:20:09 ◼   ► But she didn't buy one immediately.

00:20:10 ◼   ► just said that she'd wait and then I was gonna try and pick her one up when I was

00:20:15 ◼   ► in San Francisco right because if they're available in stores then which

00:20:18 ◼   ► could be June time I could save us some money but this weekend after spending

00:20:24 ◼   ► some time with some family where I was demoing some of the watch features to

00:20:27 ◼   ► people she looked on a store saw that the one that she wanted was only two to

00:20:32 ◼   ► three weeks shipping and bought it so I think that's really interesting because

00:20:39 ◼   ► that's an example of somebody in the wild seeing seeing a watch somebody

00:20:42 ◼   ► seeing it and knowing what it is and then making a choice rather than having

00:20:46 ◼   ► it be this oh I've seen the ads and maybe the try on or something like that

00:20:51 ◼   ► but she's actually seen you using it yeah like and as well her her feeling of

00:21:00 ◼   ► it is I'm not really sure if this is gonna work for me or if this is gonna be

00:21:05 ◼   ► something I like but I want to try it." Because as well like she always has

00:21:11 ◼   ► her phone on silent like even phone calls she always has it on silent she

00:21:16 ◼   ► goes to her phone when she wants to interact with it so she says like "I will

00:21:20 ◼   ► maybe only have messages on there" and she's disappointed that you can't have

00:21:25 ◼   ► like iMessage VIPs only show up right it shows everybody. Yeah that's

00:21:31 ◼   ► definitely a feature I wish they had. Yep I think that's an iOS 9 feature for sure

00:21:35 ◼   ► or it's such an easy one.

00:21:38 ◼   ► Like VIPs everywhere, right?

00:21:40 ◼   ► Everyone that's in your friend's wheel was a VIP

00:21:42 ◼   ► and you know, 'cause you can set them different

00:21:44 ◼   ► to the favorites on your phone,

00:21:45 ◼   ► like it just seems like a perfect thing to me.

00:21:47 ◼   ► So it's interesting that she's wanted to do that.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Like, I mean, and she likes the stuff,

00:21:55 ◼   ► you know, the idea of us being able to communicate

00:21:57 ◼   ► with each other in fun and new ways, right?

00:21:59 ◼   ► But we're not sure of how well that will stick.

00:22:02 ◼   ► If it does stick, I think it will, but we'll see.

00:22:04 ◼   ► But she's very much just like,

00:22:05 ◼   ► I don't know how much I'll use it,

00:22:07 ◼   ► but I wanna try it because I'm interested in it,

00:22:10 ◼   ► and I think that it might be fun.

00:22:12 ◼   ► But I don't know if, you know,

00:22:15 ◼   ► if it will be something that works out for me

00:22:20 ◼   ► in the long term.

00:22:21 ◼   ► And I said to her, look, you got a 14 day return window,

00:22:23 ◼   ► like, get it now, and then decide if you like it,

00:22:26 ◼   ► you've got two weeks to try it out,

00:22:27 ◼   ► and if you don't like it, you can just take it back.

00:22:30 ◼   ► It was also funny that the white sport in 38 millimeter

00:22:32 ◼   ► shipping in two weeks, right, shows the differences at least here as to what's shipping, because

00:22:37 ◼   ► some of the other models, the 42s, they're like July.

00:22:40 ◼   ► So there you go, I just thought that was really interesting.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Because she doesn't have to wait until July to try, I mean that would be the worst.

00:22:48 ◼   ► So then we would have just waited until I went and picked one up for her, but it's great

00:22:52 ◼   ► it's going to be here in the next couple of weeks.

00:22:54 ◼   ► That's cool.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Well, it'll be interesting to see how she reacts and whether she decides she wants to

00:22:59 ◼   ► keep it or not.

00:23:02 ◼   ► But I mean, I'm enjoying it.

00:23:05 ◼   ► I got to travel with it this time, which was kind of interesting.

00:23:08 ◼   ► I also got to see a couple of models that I...

00:23:11 ◼   ► So Lex Friedman has a stainless with the Milanese loop.

00:23:18 ◼   ► And I got to see that and try that on.

00:23:21 ◼   ► And that was interesting.

00:23:22 ◼   ► I decided...

00:23:24 ◼   ► So Lex is in ad sales and wears shirts with collars and buttons every day, it seems.

00:23:32 ◼   ► I am, I am a, you know, a writer, editor, podcaster who wears t-shirts and is a slob.

00:23:38 ◼   ► I think the stainless and the Milanese loop looked really nice with like a collared buttoned

00:23:44 ◼   ► shirt.

00:23:45 ◼   ► It looks, it looks really fashionable to me.

00:23:48 ◼   ► It also, in watching Lex's, I thought, I don't want that.

00:23:53 ◼   ► That's not, it's not for me.

00:23:55 ◼   ► So that was, that was good because I had at one point thought of buying the stainless

00:23:58 ◼   ► steel watch, not with the Milanese loop, but and I just I decided I didn't like the shiny,

00:24:03 ◼   ► I really prefer the matted, you know, the matte colors of the sport models. And then

00:24:08 ◼   ► Dan Morin has my ordered model. He's got the black, the space gray with black sport band

00:24:18 ◼   ► model, and it looked good, although I have to admit I'm actually a little torn because

00:24:23 ◼   ► Because I like the lighter sport model too.

00:24:27 ◼   ► So I'm not quite sure.

00:24:28 ◼   ► And I've got the voice of Matt Alexander in the back of my head saying, "Don't have a

00:24:32 ◼   ► big black thing on your arm!"

00:24:36 ◼   ► And I kind of get that, that it's really heavy because it's dark.

00:24:40 ◼   ► You know, it's dark band, dark body, the whole thing.

00:24:43 ◼   ► And I'm kind of liking the light, you know, silvery matte color of the sport edition that

00:24:51 ◼   ► I've got.

00:24:52 ◼   ► little torn there, but it was really nice to be able to see those in person. And we

00:24:55 ◼   ► had a bunch of, we had a group of like six people and half of us had Apple watches. John

00:25:00 ◼   ► Syracuse had tried my Apple watch on. It was the first time he's worn an Apple watch. So

00:25:03 ◼   ► that was kind of fun in the movie theater. He was like, Hey, can I try on the watch?

00:25:08 ◼   ► And so what did he say? He was just tapping around and I had him unlock it and he was

00:25:13 ◼   ► just tapping around and looking at it and he didn't wear it as long. I think he was

00:25:16 ◼   ► more concerned about like how it felt on his wrist. And he asked me, you know, how, whether

00:25:21 ◼   ► I was comfortable with him and all that, but you know, he, I don't know.

00:25:25 ◼   ► I don't want to speak for him.

00:25:27 ◼   ► He didn't make any declarations, but he was definitely gathering, you know, gathering

00:25:31 ◼   ► intel, gathering information about it, because he hadn't put one on before.

00:25:34 ◼   ► I imagine like a Johnny Five input kind of moment, you know, he's scanning it and just

00:25:39 ◼   ► taking a look, see what he thinks.

00:25:42 ◼   ► It could be.

00:25:43 ◼   ► He assimilated all data at that moment, but he didn't, it was actually, sitting next to

00:25:50 ◼   ► John watching movie was really funny because I you know he was I was taking

00:25:53 ◼   ► note of the parts of the movie that he that he laughed at the most it was kind

00:25:58 ◼   ► of interesting it's like that one that joke for John and then Dan was on the

00:26:01 ◼   ► other side of me and he would he would laugh out loud at something I'd be like

00:26:04 ◼   ► that one worked for Dan it was a little weird because these are people I don't

00:26:06 ◼   ► I've never like watched gone to the movies with before so but we did get a

00:26:11 ◼   ► little yes in the movie theater there is an Apple watch try on program if you

00:26:15 ◼   ► happen to be sitting next to me that's a good service you offer yeah it is I did

00:26:19 ◼   ► I didn't bring the little wipe down rag though.

00:26:22 ◼   ► I have to say I used my shirt.

00:26:23 ◼   ► - So how's it been traveling with the Apple Watch?

00:26:27 ◼   ► As you said this week, you've been out and about.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Like, have you, have you,

00:26:31 ◼   ► do you have any kind of different feelings about it

00:26:34 ◼   ► now that you've been out and about in the world?

00:26:36 ◼   ► - I feel like moments of brilliance

00:26:38 ◼   ► and moments of frustration is a good way to put it.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Well, I spent a day on, on Thursday,

00:26:44 ◼   ► I walked around Manhattan.

00:26:46 ◼   ► I spoke at this conference

00:26:48 ◼   ► that was at the Roosevelt Hotel.

00:26:52 ◼   ► And then I went up to the Bloomberg building

00:26:54 ◼   ► and had lunch with some friends.

00:26:55 ◼   ► And then I walked across town and saw Lex for a little bit.

00:26:59 ◼   ► And then I walked much further downtown for a meeting.

00:27:04 ◼   ► So I did about pedometer plus plus said,

00:27:07 ◼   ► you know, whatever, 16,000, 17,000 steps and seven miles,

00:27:10 ◼   ► something like that.

00:27:11 ◼   ► I was like, whatever, just walking around town 17 miles.

00:27:16 ◼   ► I had people-- well, 17,000 steps.

00:27:18 ◼   ► seven miles. But it's, you know, that people are like, "Oh, you should take a cab." It's

00:27:23 ◼   ► a nice day, and I'm never in Manhattan, and I'm going to walk, because why would I not

00:27:28 ◼   ► do that? So I got good things and bad things about it in that experience. One is the GPS

00:27:33 ◼   ► proximity. You're like, GPS accuracy in Manhattan is terrible because all the tall buildings

00:27:38 ◼   ► block the sky, which is where GPS comes from. And so the maps on my wrist was just a disaster.

00:27:48 ◼   ► It didn't know where I was. It kept saying, "Go to the street," while I was on the street.

00:27:54 ◼   ► It was not helpful. It didn't help me. I used it in Boston. It was much better. I was in

00:28:00 ◼   ► Somerville and walking down the street, and it's low buildings, and it was fine. But in

00:28:04 ◼   ► the tall buildings in Manhattan, it was just not any help.

00:28:07 ◼   ► That said, I also had some really great moments where the watch, I feel like, did exactly

00:28:11 ◼   ► what it was supposed to do. I was walking up to Bloomberg to have lunch with my friend

00:28:15 ◼   ► Kelly and she texted me to say, "Okay, we're going to meet at 1130 at this location." And

00:28:20 ◼   ► I was walking with my bag and walking up that direction and I get the little tap on my wrist

00:28:27 ◼   ► and I look and it's the text from Kelly and she says, "We're going to meet here." And

00:28:30 ◼   ► I went, "Tap, okay." Sent the okay, kept walking, didn't break stride, didn't stop and pull

00:28:35 ◼   ► my phone out of my pocket, just kept on going and I thought, "That is what this is for.

00:28:40 ◼   ► That is how this is supposed to work." So little bits of that and then the little moments

00:28:45 ◼   ► of frustration too. Also I was listening to music and podcasts and I was using the remote

00:28:49 ◼   ► app and so I was able to like pause and change the volume and stuff like that without taking

00:28:56 ◼   ► my phone out of my pocket.

00:28:57 ◼   ► That works really well actually. That works really well. I find that to be very responsive.

00:29:04 ◼   ► I was surprised how well that did actually work.

00:29:06 ◼   ► I love turning the crown to change the volume. That's really neat.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Didn't know you could do that.

00:29:11 ◼   ► Oh yeah, in the remote glance, if you turn the crown, it makes the volume go up or down.

00:29:15 ◼   ► So I just thought you had to tap the plus and minus.

00:29:18 ◼   ► No, no, you can use the crown. You're sort of trained that the crown can't do anything,

00:29:22 ◼   ► because app developers don't have access to the crown, but Apple has access to the crown,

00:29:26 ◼   ► so it works in the remote glance. You can do that, which is neat. So I had a good,

00:29:31 ◼   ► it was a good experience. It lasted. I never had anything remotely resembling a battery issue.

00:29:36 ◼   ► It lasted. I feel like Apple really overshot. I think Apple was so worried about,

00:29:41 ◼   ► stories about people's watches running out that they gave themselves a lot of room to

00:29:47 ◼   ► like more heavily use the watch than maybe as an actual normal profile just to make sure

00:29:54 ◼   ► that it could get through the day. And so I never came close. But yeah, I had a good

00:30:01 ◼   ► time. It was a nice little addition and being in, you know, traveling and being in places

00:30:06 ◼   ► is where I'm not usually, and keeping my phone in my pocket

00:30:09 ◼   ► and looking at little notifications on my watch,

00:30:12 ◼   ► it worked great.

00:30:13 ◼   ► Occasionally somebody that I was meeting with

00:30:15 ◼   ► would notice that I had an Apple Watch on,

00:30:17 ◼   ► and a lot of times they wouldn't,

00:30:18 ◼   ► because it's just a watch.

00:30:19 ◼   ► So a little bit of both, and then they'd ask me about it,

00:30:21 ◼   ► and if they wanted to see it, I'd show it to them.

00:30:23 ◼   ► But a lot of people don't even notice, and I like that.

00:30:26 ◼   ► I was at a dinner, and I got a tap on the wrist,

00:30:30 ◼   ► and it was one of those moments where I thought,

00:30:31 ◼   ► no, this is really good, 'cause if I had my Pebble,

00:30:33 ◼   ► everybody would've heard the buzz,

00:30:35 ◼   ► and seen it light up.

00:30:37 ◼   ► And instead it was just a tap.

00:30:40 ◼   ► And I could say, I can either, you know,

00:30:42 ◼   ► I can wait until there's an appropriate time

00:30:45 ◼   ► to check and see what's going on.

00:30:47 ◼   ► And nobody needs to know that I got that but me.

00:30:49 ◼   ► And I liked that a lot.

00:30:50 ◼   ► I thought that was really, really good

00:30:51 ◼   ► because so many notifications are obtrusive.

00:30:54 ◼   ► And this was completely unobtrusive,

00:30:57 ◼   ► which was, that was pretty nice.

00:30:58 ◼   ► So I'm liking it.

00:31:00 ◼   ► I'm liking it so far.

00:31:00 ◼   ► I'm not liking bringing another charger with me.

00:31:04 ◼   ► Although, I sort of just brought an iPhone plug

00:31:08 ◼   ► and the watch plug and the same power adapter

00:31:11 ◼   ► and did it that way,

00:31:13 ◼   ► so I could sort of do one or the other,

00:31:15 ◼   ► but it is one other cable to bring.

00:31:17 ◼   ► It's like, I gotta bring my watch charger on my trip now,

00:31:20 ◼   ► plus my iPhone charger, plus my iPad charger.

00:31:23 ◼   ► - I have, I bought one, an extra one,

00:31:28 ◼   ► and just threw it in my travel bag.

00:31:31 ◼   ► I actually threw the sport one in my travel bag

00:31:33 ◼   ► and then had the little metal one which I have on my table. It's so frustrating that

00:31:37 ◼   ► that thing does not stick to the table. So I got some like um I don't know what you guys

00:31:42 ◼   ► call it like we call it blue tack I don't know it's like a you put posters on the wall

00:31:47 ◼   ► of it. Yeah okay. Maybe some it's like a tacky thing it's not glue but it anyway. It's like

00:31:54 ◼   ► oh it's like posting like putty yeah. Yes temporary adhesive type stuff I stuck that

00:31:58 ◼   ► to the back stuck it to my bedside table so it doesn't move around and every night I just

00:32:02 ◼   ► place my watch on it but it doesn't fly all over the place I'm gonna get a stand

00:32:05 ◼   ► at some point I just haven't decided which one I want to get yet

00:32:09 ◼   ► I like 12 South have a really nice-looking one which I'm interested in

00:32:13 ◼   ► and that's probably the one that I'll get but I don't think they're shipping

00:32:15 ◼   ► yet at least I'm still waiting for it like an email it's called the high-rise

00:32:19 ◼   ► for Apple watch yeah so I wanted to go back to something you mentioned a moment

00:32:24 ◼   ► ago as well about the lighting up thing because I don't about this on the

00:32:28 ◼   ► weekend I think a bunch of people didn't really get what I was talking about

00:32:31 ◼   ► with the pebble and with the Android Wear watch, I wore both of them in business environments when I was working in my marketing job

00:32:40 ◼   ► when you get a notification on those things, they light up

00:32:43 ◼   ► and originally when I got the Apple Watch I thought "oh that's going to be frustrating because it doesn't do that because you have to raise your wrist"

00:32:50 ◼   ► but the reason Apple has the wrist raising is primarily because of battery life

00:32:54 ◼   ► that's why I expect that that exists, right?

00:32:56 ◼   ► right so it doesn't by not lighting up the screen every time you get a

00:32:59 ◼   ► notification it probably keeps the battery life down but there is also a

00:33:02 ◼   ► hidden utility in that because when I was sitting I was talking to somebody or

00:33:06 ◼   ► sitting down at a meeting and my screen would light up people would look at it

00:33:09 ◼   ► and also especially with the Android one because it's big bright color screen

00:33:14 ◼   ► like the Apple Watch is it would draw people's attention away so it was

00:33:18 ◼   ► actually not just affecting my attention because it was vibrating on my wrist it

00:33:23 ◼   ► It was affecting other people's attention because it would draw them to the wrist as

00:33:26 ◼   ► well and also people can read what's on there which is typically not what you want.

00:33:31 ◼   ► So the tapping thing is so good for that because I know it's there, there's no screen light

00:33:37 ◼   ► up to tell me that anybody else is there or to break my attention even further and then

00:33:40 ◼   ► I can come to it when I need to.

00:33:42 ◼   ► There is a real utility in that which is apparent once you've used a competing type of device

00:33:48 ◼   ► I think.

00:33:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, you can also do this with, you know, your phone in silent mode in your pocket,

00:33:54 ◼   ► although even then you can often hear silent phones vibrating everywhere.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Yeah, this is totally not the same as that. I have, um...

00:34:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:34:03 ◼   ► If the watch is against something, it makes an ungodly noise. I don't know if you've come

00:34:08 ◼   ► across this yet. So like, for example, if, you know, me and my girlfriend are watching

00:34:12 ◼   ► a movie in bed and I have my hand behind my head so it's resting on the headboard, if

00:34:17 ◼   ► the watch goes off it's like it's crazy it's a crazy sound but you know it has

00:34:23 ◼   ► to be resting against something I think yeah I've never experienced that because

00:34:27 ◼   ► I it's in do not disturb basically by the time I take it off and it stays

00:34:33 ◼   ► there until morning yeah but this is like in the day or in the morning or in

00:34:38 ◼   ► the evening like it's not like night bedtime but yeah yeah but it's against

00:34:42 ◼   ► yeah I don't know I haven't experienced that but that might be true but yeah

00:34:45 ◼   ► it can it can go crazy for it but but it's it's not so much it's madness what

00:34:51 ◼   ► one of my favorite things is when you get like a heartbeat thing from someone

00:34:54 ◼   ► and you look at it and you can see the whole thing shaking have you seen that

00:34:58 ◼   ► no like if you look really closely you can see the watch like shape vibrating

00:35:04 ◼   ► right because it's got this intense like which is you know it's natural but you

00:35:08 ◼   ► if you look at just the like the edge you can see it shaking when the when the

00:35:12 ◼   ► when it vibrates for the heartbeat or something.

00:35:16 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:35:17 ◼   ► - I don't have mine set to the extra super boost either.

00:35:21 ◼   ► So I don't know, maybe mine is really sensitive,

00:35:24 ◼   ► but I don't think that it is.

00:35:26 ◼   ► But yeah, 'cause you can bump it up, can't you?

00:35:28 ◼   ► You can say like, give me,

00:35:30 ◼   ► oh no, I have my haptic strength to the top,

00:35:32 ◼   ► but I don't have the prominent haptic one.

00:35:34 ◼   ► So maybe mine is stronger than yours in general.

00:35:38 ◼   ► I don't know if you changed the strength of your haptic.

00:35:40 ◼   ► >> I have it at max, but not the prominent,

00:35:43 ◼   ► you know, the pre-buzz thing, yeah.

00:35:46 ◼   ► >> But it works well.

00:35:48 ◼   ► I am experiencing the feeling of haptic taps.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Sorry, not haptic, phantom taps. That's what I'm talking about.

00:35:56 ◼   ► >> Oh, phantom taps, where you're convinced

00:35:57 ◼   ► that you've got a tap, but there's no tap there.

00:35:59 ◼   ► >> Uh-huh. Have you had that feeling?

00:36:01 ◼   ► Have you had that experience?

00:36:03 ◼   ► >> No, I've actually been really happy

00:36:06 ◼   ► to not have had that experience,

00:36:07 ◼   ► Because I expected I would and perhaps I will, but I haven't had it yet.

00:36:11 ◼   ► I haven't been convinced that there's a tap there when there isn't one.

00:36:16 ◼   ► How are you feeling about the watch in general?

00:36:19 ◼   ► Like are you overall happy?

00:36:21 ◼   ► Because I know you said you've got some things that are frustrating, but overall are you

00:36:25 ◼   ► feeling good about it?

00:36:27 ◼   ► I am feeling good about it.

00:36:29 ◼   ► I mean I'm wearing it all day.

00:36:30 ◼   ► I'm using it.

00:36:31 ◼   ► It's not frustrating me in the sense that it's not running out of battery.

00:36:35 ◼   ► I used the Pebble for a couple years, so I'm going from that and the integration, listening

00:36:39 ◼   ► to you on last week's Connected talking about how, you know, Pebble just couldn't integrate

00:36:43 ◼   ► with iOS very well at all, and Apple gets to control the platform and control the watch,

00:36:49 ◼   ► and so it's better integrated.

00:36:51 ◼   ► It's still got moments where it reminds me of Pebble where, like, the weather app is

00:36:55 ◼   ► closed in the background and is no longer updating the temperature and the temperature

00:36:58 ◼   ► is wrong or the location is wrong.

00:37:01 ◼   ► I went from New Jersey to New York City and it still had Lex's hometown listed for a while

00:37:06 ◼   ► as my weather. And I thought, why is that not updated? And that was something Pebble

00:37:10 ◼   ► did a lot, which is rely on an app to be open that got closed. And iOS needs to do a better

00:37:17 ◼   ► job of saying, "Oh, somebody wants to know what that app has to say. I need to reopen

00:37:20 ◼   ► it so I can get data from that app." But generally, yeah, I'm enjoying the experience. It's comfortable

00:37:25 ◼   ► to wear. It doesn't feel like I'm wearing something outlandish. It feels just like I'm

00:37:29 ◼   ► wearing a watch. I find value in what it has to offer. I feel like some of the apps are

00:37:34 ◼   ► really interesting, a lot of them are not interesting, but that's okay because we also

00:37:39 ◼   ► know that the developers just don't have that much, you know, that many tools in their paintbrush,

00:37:45 ◼   ► you know, or in their paint, what is it? I was gonna say arsenal, but arsenals don't

00:37:50 ◼   ► hold tools, they hold weapons, and that was a mixed metaphor. So instead I just destroyed

00:37:53 ◼   ► the metaphor entirely. You know what I mean. They don't have that many tools to use to

00:37:57 ◼   ► to build these apps right now, and they built them all sight unseen. And you know, like

00:38:01 ◼   ► I know Marco Armet is working really hard to do an entirely new approach now that he's

00:38:07 ◼   ► seen the actual watch. Like he had his, here's what it's going to be theoretically, and then

00:38:12 ◼   ► he gets the watch and he's like, oh no, I should do some things differently. And I think

00:38:17 ◼   ► that a lot of developers are doing that too. So I think we're, it's just such early days

00:38:21 ◼   ► that it's uh I'm enjoying it but I'm also appreciating that it's got a long way to go.

00:38:27 ◼   ► How about you? Are you liking it? Happy about it?

00:38:31 ◼   ► It's part of my life now. Like it's just part of like first thing I do when I wake up in

00:38:36 ◼   ► the morning put the watch on because now that's the way that like my watch and phone work

00:38:41 ◼   ► together right it makes sense because together they like when the watch is on my phone is

00:38:48 ◼   ► fine again because it's usually in do not disturb mode so pretty much all the time now like before

00:38:53 ◼   ► it was just in the evenings but now I don't need my phone to do anything because my watch can tell

00:38:59 ◼   ► me about the things I want to be told about. I'm trying to still get to the point where I'm happy

00:39:06 ◼   ► with the notification balance like there are still things that are coming through I'm like do I really

00:39:12 ◼   ► want those to come through like I get enough email that I would prefer it to

00:39:18 ◼   ► not bother me every time but I also like to be able to just archive email from

00:39:23 ◼   ► the watch or like set them to show up tomorrow in mailbox so I'm like trying

00:39:28 ◼   ► to work out shall I just have them not tap me or like you know I'm still trying

00:39:32 ◼   ► to work out like how do I want that balance to work I have no mail

00:39:36 ◼   ► notifications right now? None. I like to be notified about email because there

00:39:43 ◼   ► are things that come through that I like to jump on immediately. Sponsor requests

00:39:47 ◼   ► for example, I like to get to those straight away. I could set up my email to

00:39:52 ◼   ► be more smart to try and work that stuff out but I might go down that route if I

00:39:58 ◼   ► decide to keep notifications on. I haven't just I just haven't decided yet

00:40:02 ◼   ► about how I want to deal with that. I've just been told that I've earned another

00:40:07 ◼   ► hour towards my stand goal which is nice that's always good to know.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Oh good for you. It just told me to stand. It told me every hour on the plane

00:40:14 ◼   ► stand up now. Thank you.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I actually want to talk to you about that. The fitness stuff in a minute to see how you feel about that kind of stuff.

00:40:24 ◼   ► But yeah I'm just trying to work. That balance notification I really want to

00:40:30 ◼   ► really want to work out more and I do feel now that I keep saying it but

00:40:37 ◼   ► there has to be better support in iOS 9 for developers to be more fine-ground

00:40:42 ◼   ► about their notifications and stuff like that. I think that that is a must and it

00:40:46 ◼   ► is real low hanging fruit now again. So I really hope that we see more of that.

00:40:51 ◼   ► Now I want to take a break but I want to talk to you about being out in the real

00:40:55 ◼   ► world and with the watch a little bit more and people's reactions to it

00:40:58 ◼   ► but also the activity fitness stuff because me and you haven't spoken about that at all.

00:41:03 ◼   ► But before we do that we have a great sponsor, a great new sponsor, and this is Making Light.

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00:43:10 ◼   ► Well so we got them and my daughter was excited about it and what we decided to do was try

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00:45:35 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Making Light for supporting this show and all of Relay FM.

00:45:40 ◼   ► sponsor. Yeah that's a lot of fun. So have people noticed the watch on your wrist

00:45:47 ◼   ► in the world? Has anybody asked you anything? People that maybe know about this stuff or don't know?

00:45:52 ◼   ► Well okay so like on the flight this morning the guy sitting next to me had a

00:45:57 ◼   ► an iPad in a in one of those keyboard shell things that turns it into a lap a

00:46:06 ◼   ► a laptop. And I was thinking, wow, that's hardcore. First I was like, what kind of laptop

00:46:12 ◼   ► is that? It looks like some kind of knockoff MacBook air. And then I looked at the screen

00:46:16 ◼   ► and I thought, that's an iPad. This is one of those crazy hard shell turn your iPad into

00:46:21 ◼   ► a laptop thing. He noticed, but you know, he was proven at that point to be a, uh, apparently

00:46:29 ◼   ► a fairly hardcore Apple person. Cause he would turn his iPad into a, that's pretty hardcore.

00:46:34 ◼   ► I think. I had other people who had no idea at all. And then other people who noticed,

00:46:39 ◼   ► but it took them a long time. And I, you know, I don't know how different people process

00:46:44 ◼   ► people wearing watches. And it's also like, am I wearing it where I've got a sleeve over

00:46:47 ◼   ► it versus, versus not? It is a very bright green wristband. I have no idea whether that

00:46:55 ◼   ► that ties into it or not, because like I said, I usually am wearing like a black leather

00:46:59 ◼   ► band and it's intentionally as boring as possible but I don't know I mean people would ask about

00:47:06 ◼   ► it and say you know how do you like it and all that but a lot of people didn't even notice

00:47:10 ◼   ► too so I think because it's a watch you know it watches come in all shapes and sizes and

00:47:15 ◼   ► I'm not sure John Gruber wrote about this I'm not sure anybody who isn't a watch person

00:47:20 ◼   ► or these days an Apple person even notices watches.

00:47:24 ◼   ► I think the the bright bands are more noticeable if you have one of the metal

00:47:31 ◼   ► bands or the leather bands I think that watch is more inconspicuous but I think

00:47:36 ◼   ► these these bright sport bands draw attention to them and then when people

00:47:40 ◼   ► have their attention drawn they see what it is because I've had people ask like

00:47:44 ◼   ► I've had some friends ask when we've been out with friends and stuff they

00:47:49 ◼   ► notice it and I've had a couple of people that I don't know ask me what I

00:47:51 ◼   ► think like in stores and stuff I have had more of that but I think it's

00:47:55 ◼   ► because I have this really bright blue watch on my arm. What about the

00:48:02 ◼   ► activity and fitness stuff? Have you been using any of it? Have you used the

00:48:05 ◼   ► workout app? Are you checking out your fitness rings? Like is any of that

00:48:09 ◼   ► landing with you? Not yet. I actually didn't realize that you had to trigger a

00:48:15 ◼   ► workout for it to like notice that you went for a hike or a walk so I

00:48:21 ◼   ► I haven't used that feature.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Well, it does this exercise thing that I haven't worked out yet, and that doesn't come from

00:48:27 ◼   ► the workhouse, but I don't know where that's coming from.

00:48:29 ◼   ► The tracking, yes, I've noticed that, and it's another little prod, although again,

00:48:34 ◼   ► when you're traveling, I had my day in New York where I could walk around a lot, and

00:48:39 ◼   ► I had other days where I couldn't do anything.

00:48:41 ◼   ► I couldn't go anywhere.

00:48:42 ◼   ► And so I still have to...

00:48:44 ◼   ► I'm actually thinking that this week is gonna be my chance to do a little more exploration

00:48:49 ◼   ► with that, 'cause I just haven't...

00:48:50 ◼   ► I've been noticing the standing goals and honestly, I've been so focused on the traditional

00:48:58 ◼   ► pedometer kind of metrics that the rings, I'm not quite sure how to interpret them yet.

00:49:05 ◼   ► I feel like their initial settings are also, or at least how I initially set it, it was

00:49:09 ◼   ► for really like, I was giving the watch low expectations because I would have days on

00:49:14 ◼   ► this trip where I felt like I didn't do anything and it's like, "You're at your goal."

00:49:19 ◼   ► And I thought, wow, was the goal to just keep breathing?

00:49:21 ◼   ► Cause I did that, but I did very little more than that.

00:49:24 ◼   ► So I haven't, I haven't gotten that piece of it yet.

00:49:28 ◼   ► I'm intrigued by it, but I just haven't,

00:49:31 ◼   ► I haven't taken advantage of it at all.

00:49:33 ◼   ► I would say at this point, I'm not,

00:49:35 ◼   ► I'm not going to say like,

00:49:36 ◼   ► like Marco said on ATP this week that, you know,

00:49:39 ◼   ► he just doesn't, you know, exercise.

00:49:43 ◼   ► I do a little, but, but I haven't,

00:49:47 ◼   ► I've got other things, other tools that I use to kind of meter my progress and I haven't

00:49:54 ◼   ► yet figured out how to adapt or replace those with things that come from the watch.

00:50:01 ◼   ► So I have been more noticeable of this kind of stuff because the activity app is there

00:50:09 ◼   ► and it's pointing me to things.

00:50:11 ◼   ► I have yet to do much about it but I'm more conscious of it than ever before so that's

00:50:15 ◼   ► probably a good thing.

00:50:16 ◼   ► The standing stuff, I am very much enjoying that it is making me do that because I am

00:50:22 ◼   ► standing, I'm getting up and walking around the house more often than I did before so

00:50:26 ◼   ► it is having an effect on my life which is a good one.

00:50:30 ◼   ► But it's also weighing on my mind more about how active I am in the day.

00:50:34 ◼   ► That's probably a good thing.

00:50:37 ◼   ► And the fact that it's there just giving me these very gentle reminders.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Like it's not going, I don't feel like I'm being bullied by the watch, right?

00:50:45 ◼   ► But I feel like it's reminding me like, "Hey, you should maybe focus on moving around a

00:50:50 ◼   ► little bit more today."

00:50:51 ◼   ► I saw one where it was like, "We're approaching the evening and you're less than halfway to

00:50:58 ◼   ► your move goal, so maybe you should do something about that."

00:51:02 ◼   ► And so it's like, "Yeah, okay, that's quite cool.

00:51:04 ◼   ► I like that."

00:51:05 ◼   ► So I'm thinking more about it, which is probably a benefit about the watch that I haven't fully

00:51:12 ◼   ► you realized yet but it's probably a good one.

00:51:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and again, one of the most powerful things

00:51:19 ◼   ► can just be to say, hey, you know, to get your attention

00:51:23 ◼   ► to what we were talking about with the sponsor earlier.

00:51:25 ◼   ► It's just a break, just you know, think about this.

00:51:28 ◼   ► I've written about using an app break time on my Mac

00:51:33 ◼   ► to do the same thing to basically say,

00:51:34 ◼   ► hey, you should take a break, you should get up.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Just you get in the zone sometimes and you think,

00:51:40 ◼   ► I got a lot of work to do, I'm gonna move to this,

00:51:41 ◼   ► now I'll do this, now I'll do that, and to have somebody tapping you on the shoulder

00:51:45 ◼   ► or the wrist and say, "Do something else," or, "Did you know that you need to walk more

00:51:51 ◼   ► today?

00:51:52 ◼   ► You haven't really been that active today.

00:51:53 ◼   ► You should do something about that."

00:51:55 ◼   ► That's good.

00:51:56 ◼   ► That is useful.

00:51:57 ◼   ► And that's, you know, it's not going to cure you of, you know, your sedentary lifestyle,

00:52:03 ◼   ► but it can make you stick your head up and say, "Oh, yeah, right.

00:52:08 ◼   ► I have been meaning to do that thing that I never get around to doing and maybe it improves

00:52:13 ◼   ► your chances of remembering to do it.

00:52:15 ◼   ► >> So do you want to move on?

00:52:19 ◼   ► >> Yeah, I don't think I've got anything more about the watch right now other than to say

00:52:24 ◼   ► what we, you know, sort of what we said before.

00:52:26 ◼   ► I like it.

00:52:27 ◼   ► I'm enjoying wearing it.

00:52:28 ◼   ► I find it useful.

00:52:30 ◼   ► I don't know if I, you know, it's definitely not a must-have kind of product.

00:52:35 ◼   ► It's not.

00:52:36 ◼   ► fun, it's a fun product, but the Pebble wasn't a must-have either. It was fun and interesting,

00:52:41 ◼   ► and it allowed me to change the way I interact with my phone and reduce some of my interaction

00:52:48 ◼   ► with my phone and let me... I also have... I guess this would be the other thing I would

00:52:53 ◼   ► say. I mentioned this last week. I really like the ability to put my phone down somewhere

00:52:57 ◼   ► where I'm not and know that I can attend to a lot of what it does without it. I like that.

00:53:04 ◼   ► I like that if I'm in another room, I know if something comes through.

00:53:09 ◼   ► I don't need to have my phone with me.

00:53:10 ◼   ► I can plug my phone in, I can leave it on the counter and not worry about it.

00:53:14 ◼   ► I really like that.

00:53:15 ◼   ► I like, I feel a little less tethered to it, and I know that's funny because the watch

00:53:20 ◼   ► is tethered to it, but I feel less like I'm cut off from this important information source

00:53:26 ◼   ► if I don't have it with me.

00:53:28 ◼   ► So I like that part of it.

00:53:31 ◼   ► I don't love when the phone rings and I have to decide whether I'm going to run to get

00:53:37 ◼   ► the phone or if I'm going to answer on my watch because I still haven't gotten over

00:53:41 ◼   ► answering on my watch seeming like a ridiculous thing to do.

00:53:45 ◼   ► I've done it a bunch and I think it's fine.

00:53:48 ◼   ► All right.

00:53:49 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:53:50 ◼   ► I just I gotta get I gotta get used to that idea of that answering it on my watch is a

00:53:56 ◼   ► thing that I can actually do without just rolling my eyes thinking that I'm a ridiculous

00:54:01 ◼   ► person. So, but you know that? That is just the feeling. For this watch, you know, to

00:54:08 ◼   ► be successful, one of the ways for it to be successful, there are probably lots, is to

00:54:12 ◼   ► change your relationship with your phone and make it that your phone time is a little more,

00:54:22 ◼   ► It comes with meaning that your phone time is there because you want to do something

00:54:27 ◼   ► on your phone and have it less that because that's the only way to interact is through

00:54:31 ◼   ► the phone.

00:54:32 ◼   ► So you pull the phone out and now you're checking all your different apps to like put one more

00:54:36 ◼   ► like step between you and the phone and being able to take it out of your pocket and know

00:54:41 ◼   ► that if something really comes up you will know about it but you don't need to have the

00:54:45 ◼   ► whole thing in your pocket all the time.

00:54:47 ◼   ► And I have already noticed some of that.

00:54:49 ◼   ► So that's kind of a fun experience to go through.

00:54:54 ◼   ► I think people kind of get used to just hearing a lot of this stuff, right?

00:55:00 ◼   ► This reminds me of when I used to listen to podcasts when the original iPhone came out.

00:55:05 ◼   ► There is lots to say about it.

00:55:07 ◼   ► People have lots of thoughts about it and lots of thoughts on it.

00:55:11 ◼   ► And it's kind of...

00:55:15 ◼   ► This is how it's going to be.

00:55:17 ◼   ► we're going to keep talking about it and we're going to keep having changing opinions on

00:55:21 ◼   ► it and it's like then an app's going to come out that we want to talk about, you know,

00:55:24 ◼   ► it's going to be an interesting kind of feeling and I think it's something we're just going

00:55:29 ◼   ► to have to get used to.

00:55:30 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I think so. But it's fun. I mean, we've, and we talked about it last week, the

00:55:34 ◼   ► 1.0 thing, I love that this is new because we're all experiencing it and we're all learning

00:55:41 ◼   ► things about ourselves and how we, what our relationship with our phone is and how having

00:55:46 ◼   ► something on our wrist can be different. There are people who, like Marco, who have never

00:55:51 ◼   ► worn a watch, who are now wearing a watch, and they are experiencing like, what is a

00:55:56 ◼   ► watch about, right? And then there are other people who have that realization like, "Oh

00:56:01 ◼   ► yeah, this is why people do wristwatches instead of pocket watches." It is easier to check

00:56:08 ◼   ► the time when you can glance at your wrist instead of pulling something out of your pocket.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Everybody's having different experiences of how it fits in their lives, and this is where

00:56:16 ◼   ► the rubber meets the road in terms of how technology affects people.

00:56:19 ◼   ► \ \

00:56:20 ◼   ► \ The fluoroelastomer meets the road.\

00:56:22 ◼   ► \ Thank you. Yes, this is where the fluoroelastomer

00:56:26 ◼   ► meets the road, Myke. You nailed it. Ding. Because this is new tech that we're not entirely

00:56:34 ◼   ► sure of how it works and how it's going to fit into our lives. And in changing things

00:56:39 ◼   ► about our lives, it reveals things about how we live our lives. And that's really interesting

00:56:44 ◼   ► too. So that's the fun of being on the cutting edge, of being a gadget nerd and having these

00:56:48 ◼   ► new gadgets that people haven't had before, or people in our community haven't had before,

00:56:54 ◼   ► and prior to a couple years ago people haven't had. That's a lot of fun. It's not for everybody,

00:56:59 ◼   ► but I love it. I love that we're all, you know, we all have opinions and they differ.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Somebody on Twitter the other day, I made a statement on Twitter the other day that

00:57:08 ◼   ► I feel like, it was based on what our conversation was, I feel like the app stuff is still too

00:57:11 ◼   ► prominent and that I'd almost rather not have an apps display at all and have the last pain

00:57:18 ◼   ► of the glances be an app list rather than have an apps honeycomb thing because I feel

00:57:24 ◼   ► like glances are really good between glances and notifications you should be able to get

00:57:29 ◼   ► to apps and that manually going and launching an app seems kind of ridiculous to me and

00:57:35 ◼   ► somebody on Twitter said I completely disagree I hate glances and I love going to the app

00:57:40 ◼   ► picker and she might be right. You know, she and I might be both have valid opinions. I

00:57:47 ◼   ► might be right, I might be wrong. We don't know. We don't know whether one of us is an

00:57:52 ◼   ► oddball or whether we're 50/50 or whether one of us, you know, two weeks down the line

00:57:58 ◼   ► goes "Oh, no, now I get it." We don't know and that's fun. I love that. I love that about

00:58:04 ◼   ► this part of the life cycle of a product.

00:58:06 ◼   ► So now I have more to say about apps.

00:58:08 ◼   ► So...

00:58:09 ◼   ► Yeah!

00:58:10 ◼   ► Um...

00:58:11 ◼   ► I definitely stand by my feelings that like, calling it the home screen and having it be like this is...

00:58:18 ◼   ► I'm still getting used to it, I still think it's kind of weird. But anyway...

00:58:22 ◼   ► In now leaving my phone around the house and me being in different places in the house,

00:58:27 ◼   ► there are sometimes I need to check things and like, let's say I want to read an email, right,

00:58:33 ◼   ► that's come through and I'm like,

00:58:35 ◼   ► I want to just see what that says,

00:58:37 ◼   ► I can open up the mail app and read it, right?

00:58:40 ◼   ► And I can mark it as unread and come back to it again later.

00:58:42 ◼   ► Or if I want to send a text message

00:58:46 ◼   ► or there's like a chain of messages come through

00:58:50 ◼   ► and I've dismissed them but now I want to go back in

00:58:51 ◼   ► and read them and do something about them,

00:58:53 ◼   ► I can open the messages app and get to that.

00:58:55 ◼   ► Or if I want to check what's coming up on OmniFocus,

00:58:57 ◼   ► I've been doing that a bunch

00:58:58 ◼   ► and I can open the OmniFocus app to do that.

00:59:00 ◼   ► or I've added like, I use Dew for like alerts and reminders

00:59:05 ◼   ► for some things that are happening later in the day,

00:59:06 ◼   ► like I'll remember to take out the trash in 20 minutes.

00:59:10 ◼   ► I don't really put that stuff in OmniFocus.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I can open Dew, use Siri and say,

00:59:14 ◼   ► remind me to take out the trash in 20 minutes.

00:59:16 ◼   ► It does all the text passing that it usually does

00:59:18 ◼   ► and then will just, it quite simply adds it in

00:59:23 ◼   ► and then it reminds me in 20 minutes.

00:59:24 ◼   ► Like I've started to use some of the apps a little bit more

00:59:28 ◼   ► and I'm starting to see more utility in some of them that I designed really well.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Yeah, they're not bad at all, and some of them are incredibly clever. I just feel like

00:59:39 ◼   ► I think there's this question of how do you get to them? And like my number one way to

00:59:44 ◼   ► get to an app is that I tap on a glance or a notification, or that's maybe number one

00:59:48 ◼   ► and number two. Sometimes I go out and fish for an app in the sea of little app icons.

00:59:54 ◼   ► So, you know, maybe we'll get used to it and realize that it's really great.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Or maybe at some point Apple will be like, "Oh, yeah, this isn't the right metaphor here."

01:00:02 ◼   ► But we'll see.

01:00:04 ◼   ► But it's interesting.

01:00:06 ◼   ► I am surprised at how...

01:00:08 ◼   ► I feel like developers talk down the capability of these apps so much that I'm now surprised

01:00:13 ◼   ► when they do things.

01:00:14 ◼   ► That's a good point.

01:00:15 ◼   ► It's a good job developers for saying, "No, no, no, we can't do anything with WatchKit.

01:00:19 ◼   ► Sorry.

01:00:20 ◼   ► No, can't.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Nope.

01:00:22 ◼   ► hopes up because there's nothing, literally nothing we can do. It's just gonna be a big

01:00:25 ◼   ► spinning thing that says wait for better apps to come later this year. And then you get

01:00:30 ◼   ► the apps and you're like, oh, look, look at what it's doing. It gave me the baseball score

01:00:35 ◼   ► or it lets me control my podcast playback, even though, you know, it's not super powerful.

01:00:41 ◼   ► It's and we know what's happening behind the scenes and how it's kind of being driven by

01:00:45 ◼   ► the iPhone. But in the end, they can be cool. They're not all cool, but some of them are

01:00:50 ◼   ► very cool.

01:00:51 ◼   ► So you have something else that you just throw in a document here.

01:00:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I just want to mention this, and this wasn't in our document, but so Dan Morin has

01:01:02 ◼   ► an Amazon Echo.

01:01:03 ◼   ► I told him he should buy one and write about it for six colors and then, you know, and

01:01:08 ◼   ► if he didn't like it and regret it, we would pay for it because, you know, I want to write

01:01:12 ◼   ► about it sometime.

01:01:14 ◼   ► And it's, if people don't know, it's this little tube, metal tube that is like, it's

01:01:20 ◼   ► It's like Siri in a tube.

01:01:21 ◼   ► It's Siri embedded in a Bluetooth speaker, essentially.

01:01:26 ◼   ► So it's got access, it's voice control.

01:01:29 ◼   ► It's got access to Amazon's kind of like cloud stuff

01:01:32 ◼   ► behind it.

01:01:33 ◼   ► And I just wanted to say that I saw it

01:01:36 ◼   ► and it was kind of neat.

01:01:37 ◼   ► Like it's not gonna win the awards

01:01:39 ◼   ► for best speaker or anything.

01:01:40 ◼   ► And yet, you know, it was, it sounded pretty good

01:01:42 ◼   ► and it's a Bluetooth speaker.

01:01:43 ◼   ► And then you can do stuff like,

01:01:45 ◼   ► especially since Amazon has their Prime Music Library,

01:01:48 ◼   ► which is a pretty decent library of music.

01:01:50 ◼   ► It's nothing fantastic, but it's pretty decent.

01:01:52 ◼   ► And Dan was showing me, you can just say,

01:01:55 ◼   ► and that device is called Alexa.

01:01:58 ◼   ► So I guess I'm gonna say, ahoy, ahoy, tube.

01:02:06 ◼   ► Play jazz.

01:02:09 ◼   ► - I think Dan is the only person

01:02:10 ◼   ► that's gonna have this problem.

01:02:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, well, let me put it this way.

01:02:13 ◼   ► I'm gonna play jazz in Dan's house now,

01:02:15 ◼   ► 'cause you say, "Alexa, play some jazz."

01:02:18 ◼   ► And Alexa says, "Playing some jazz music

01:02:20 ◼   ► from Amazon Prime Music."

01:02:23 ◼   ► And it just plays jazz.

01:02:25 ◼   ► And it's tied into,

01:02:26 ◼   ► I think it's got a Pandora integration.

01:02:29 ◼   ► So you can have it play music.

01:02:30 ◼   ► You can ask it the typical Siri things.

01:02:31 ◼   ► It's not quite as good as Siri.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Like with Siri, you can kind of stumble around and say,

01:02:36 ◼   ► "Did the Giants play tonight?"

01:02:37 ◼   ► And it'll say, "Oh, the San Francisco Giants

01:02:39 ◼   ► beat the Los Angeles Dodgers tonight."

01:02:42 ◼   ► With Alexa, you have to say it more specifically than Siri.

01:02:47 ◼   ► Siri gives you more latitude.

01:02:49 ◼   ► But that all said, I think it's a cool idea.

01:02:51 ◼   ► The microphone is really good.

01:02:52 ◼   ► You can be a couple of rooms away

01:02:54 ◼   ► and it will pick up your command.

01:02:59 ◼   ► It's got a little light ring on the top.

01:03:01 ◼   ► So when you say the name, the ring sort of spins.

01:03:03 ◼   ► And then, so it's like the little spinning Siri icon,

01:03:06 ◼   ► except it's on the top of this device so you can see it.

01:03:09 ◼   ► So it's a neat idea.

01:03:11 ◼   ► It was a lot of fun.

01:03:12 ◼   ► And Dan has a Wemo light timer switch thing,

01:03:16 ◼   ► So you could say, Alexa, turn off the light

01:03:19 ◼   ► and the light turns off and she says, okay.

01:03:22 ◼   ► - Oh, that's nice.

01:03:23 ◼   ► - I thought that was pretty cool too.

01:03:25 ◼   ► And they just announced if this, then that integration

01:03:28 ◼   ► or as you like to say.

01:03:30 ◼   ► - If.

01:03:32 ◼   ► - If.

01:03:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, Mark was upset 'cause I didn't give enough teas.

01:03:35 ◼   ► - Not enough teas.

01:03:36 ◼   ► There's lots of teas at the end there.

01:03:37 ◼   ► If.

01:03:38 ◼   ► If this and that integration means you can do things like,

01:03:43 ◼   ► Right now you can say, Alexa, put marshmallows on my shopping list, and she'll put it on

01:03:48 ◼   ► the marshmallow, or on the Amazon shopping list.

01:03:52 ◼   ► But there's if this, then that integration, so your shopping list and your to-do list

01:03:55 ◼   ► can get pushed to to-do list apps and reminders and things like that.

01:04:00 ◼   ► They don't have to just stay inside sort of Amazon's little ecosystem.

01:04:04 ◼   ► And my thought was, and Dan mentioned this too, so Dan's thought was, and I agree with

01:04:08 ◼   ► it, I'll put it that way, full credit to Dan, it actually feels like a product that should

01:04:12 ◼   ► be made by Google or Apple in the sense that they have better ecosystems behind them. Amazon,

01:04:17 ◼   ► it's a little bit weird. It's like, you know, Amazon, I don't think of Amazon as providing

01:04:21 ◼   ► a to-do list for me, right? There are other options, but the if this, then that stuff

01:04:26 ◼   ► makes it, kind of gets it out there into a wider bit of integration. So it's a weird

01:04:31 ◼   ► product. You still have to sign up to be invited to buy it, which is also weird. But I kind

01:04:36 ◼   ► of thought it was cool. Again, in the sense, a little bit like what we were talking about

01:04:39 ◼   ► with the Apple Watch, it certainly doesn't seem necessary, but it's fun and you know,

01:04:46 ◼   ► it's also a Bluetooth speaker I believe, so you can also just play things through it through

01:04:51 ◼   ► this metal tube even if you're not telling it what to do with your voice. So anyway,

01:04:57 ◼   ► I thought it was neat and it turns the light on and off. I thought that was a lot of fun.

01:05:01 ◼   ► Dan's really annoyed because it worked. He's in the chat room now and he's telling us that

01:05:06 ◼   ► it did do it. So maybe we should say like, "Hey Alexa, turn off the light and just see

01:05:11 ◼   ► what happens."

01:05:12 ◼   ► Oh yeah, that'll turn off Dan's light. It's true. "Hey, Alexa, add marshmallows to my

01:05:20 ◼   ► shopping list." Sorry, Dan. It's like I'm still there, Dan.

01:05:25 ◼   ► What I don't understand though is why the naming thing is so crazy to me because you

01:05:32 ◼   ► can't set your own name, which I'm sure it said you could in the product.

01:05:36 ◼   ► - You can say, I believe you can only set Amazon

01:05:40 ◼   ► and Alexa as the name.

01:05:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I don't know why they call it the Echo.

01:05:44 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense.

01:05:45 ◼   ► Like if you can call it either Amazon or Alexa,

01:05:49 ◼   ► why is it not called the Amazon Alexa?

01:05:52 ◼   ► - I think the reason that they used it

01:05:54 ◼   ► is they wanted to personalize it

01:05:55 ◼   ► and they wanted a series of sounds

01:05:57 ◼   ► that is less likely to be vocalized in normal speech,

01:06:02 ◼   ► in English.

01:06:02 ◼   ► - But yeah, that makes sense.

01:06:03 ◼   ► - I really think that's the reason.

01:06:05 ◼   ► It's like to avoid the Ahoy telephone problem, right?

01:06:08 ◼   ► - But then why do they call it the Echo?

01:06:10 ◼   ► - Because you talk and it says things back to you?

01:06:15 ◼   ► - But why not call it Alexa like Siri is called Siri?

01:06:19 ◼   ► - I almost wrote in,

01:06:21 ◼   ► or maybe Alexa is Amazon's intelligent agent technology,

01:06:25 ◼   ► but the product is not that, I don't know.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Dan reports that his light's not on.

01:06:31 ◼   ► Alexa, turn the light on.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Take that, Dan.

01:06:36 ◼   ► But, you know, yeah, it's a weird product.

01:06:40 ◼   ► And actually, one of my thoughts was,

01:06:42 ◼   ► what if a next generation Apple TV did that?

01:06:44 ◼   ► What if it was tied in?

01:06:45 ◼   ► What if it had ties to Apple's services?

01:06:47 ◼   ► And even when the TV was off, what

01:06:50 ◼   ► if you had the ability to instruct it and have

01:06:53 ◼   ► it tell you things?

01:06:53 ◼   ► I don't know whether that is something Apple wants to do

01:06:55 ◼   ► or if that's a little too far afield for a TV product.

01:06:57 ◼   ► But it struck me that there's maybe a product category there,

01:07:01 ◼   ► and that it's kind of funny that Apple and Google

01:07:03 ◼   ► aren't making that product because I think they've got more of the technology behind

01:07:07 ◼   ► it than Amazon does and yet Amazon is the one who's made this product because Amazon

01:07:11 ◼   ► is crazy and will make anything apparently. But I thought it was cool. It was a lot of

01:07:15 ◼   ► fun to play with at least and it's got an iOS app so you can actually look and an Android

01:07:19 ◼   ► app and you can look and see like you can go through past things that you've said to

01:07:25 ◼   ► it stuff like that. Yeah.

01:07:27 ◼   ► Is there a review coming?

01:07:29 ◼   ► I don't know. Dan is saying he's unsubscribing from our show.

01:07:34 ◼   ► I don't know. It would be nice... Did he write about it on Six Colors?

01:07:38 ◼   ► He may have. I've been traveling so much that he has...

01:07:41 ◼   ► He wrote about it once, I wonder, and he mentioned it in a...

01:07:45 ◼   ► Clockwise, in Clockwise 84, he talks about it a little bit.

01:07:48 ◼   ► But maybe there's more there.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Or maybe there isn't in this.

01:07:52 ◼   ► Or maybe Dan is tired of us.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Dan just texted me a picture of all the terrible things that we've been doing to his Alexa.

01:08:03 ◼   ► Can we get that picture in the show notes?

01:08:05 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, he just sent me his shopping list with marshmallows on it.

01:08:11 ◼   ► I really hope that Dan's the only person, because otherwise we're gonna have another

01:08:14 ◼   ► one of these hella telephone numbers.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Again, we're gonna have to go to Ahoy Metal Tube if we have to.

01:08:20 ◼   ► That may have to happen.

01:08:21 ◼   ► I really hope that like there is a small overlap of people that have that product.

01:08:26 ◼   ► Oh god, if we've gotten in trouble for this then...

01:08:30 ◼   ► At least it wasn't me this time.

01:08:32 ◼   ► Who's got an Amazon Echo? Come on! There can't be that many people who've got that.

01:08:37 ◼   ► I'd like to think so. We do actually have one more small topic this week that we're

01:08:43 ◼   ► gonna talk about at the end of the show. Yes. Because it's about, we're gonna talk about

01:08:46 ◼   ► about Age of Ocran.

01:08:48 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:08:50 ◼   ► - But we don't want to talk about it now because--

01:08:51 ◼   ► - No, not everybody's seen it.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Not everybody wants to hear us talking about movies

01:08:55 ◼   ► and not everybody has seen it.

01:08:56 ◼   ► - Exactly, so we're gonna do our ask,

01:09:01 ◼   ► oh my word, what's happened to me today?

01:09:04 ◼   ► - You said ask.

01:09:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, our ask--

01:09:05 ◼   ► - Boy, we're gonna have you saying ax pretty soon.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Axe upgrade.

01:09:10 ◼   ► - Never, that will not ever happen.

01:09:12 ◼   ► - Good, I hope not.

01:09:13 ◼   ► - We're gonna do our ask upgrade segment.

01:09:16 ◼   ► Ask Upgrade. Ask Upgrade, which is brought to you by our friends at MailRoute. Jason,

01:09:20 ◼   ► please tell the people. Oh, MailRoute. So we just did an incomparable

01:09:26 ◼   ► about Age of Ultron, and in talking about MailRoute, I suggested that if you imagine

01:09:33 ◼   ► a world without spam viruses or bounced email, perhaps you're imagining the Age of Ultron,

01:09:39 ◼   ► where Ultron filters all your spam. But no, this is not a dystopia. It is a utopia. It's

01:09:46 ◼   ► It's the real world.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Upgrade listeners can get a very special deal on mail route, by the way.

01:09:51 ◼   ► So listen at the end of this explanation.

01:09:54 ◼   ► But let me tell you how Upgrade, I want to call it Upgrade.

01:09:57 ◼   ► Mail route works.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Mail route is kind of a magical service.

01:10:02 ◼   ► It lives in the cloud.

01:10:03 ◼   ► You don't have to buy any hardware or software.

01:10:04 ◼   ► You don't have to install or maintain anything.

01:10:06 ◼   ► You point your MX record for your domain.

01:10:08 ◼   ► This is the thing that tells the internet where your email should go.

01:10:12 ◼   ► And you point it at mail route.

01:10:13 ◼   ► MailRout takes in everything that comes in across the transom of the internet, all the

01:10:16 ◼   ► junk, all the spam, everything that you don't want, and everything that you do.

01:10:21 ◼   ► And then their smart servers filter it out.

01:10:24 ◼   ► They know what spam looks like.

01:10:25 ◼   ► They know what viruses look like.

01:10:27 ◼   ► Those never get delivered to you.

01:10:28 ◼   ► And then the stuff that is good, that you do want, does get delivered to you.

01:10:32 ◼   ► So your email server and your inbox never see the bad stuff.

01:10:36 ◼   ► The bad stuff doesn't go in your spam folder that is on your computer.

01:10:40 ◼   ► It never gets there.

01:10:41 ◼   ► It doesn't have to take time to download that stuff.

01:10:43 ◼   ► junk just never even appears. It stays up on mail route, and there's some nice tools

01:10:47 ◼   ► for you to check and see what got filtered if you want to check and see if something

01:10:51 ◼   ► got misfiltered. I almost never see something get misfiltered, maybe once a month. And then

01:10:56 ◼   ► with one click, you can whitelist that sender and automatically have it delivered to you.

01:11:01 ◼   ► So as a desktop user, makes me happy. If you're an email administrator or an IT professional,

01:11:05 ◼   ► they have all the tools fully buzzword compliant, everything that you need for somebody who's

01:11:10 ◼   ► going to provide a mail service to you. There's an API for easy account management, support

01:11:18 ◼   ► for LDAP and Active Directory, TLS, outbound relay, mail bagging.

01:11:22 ◼   ► Gregor: Alexa, please bag my mail.

01:11:25 ◼   ► Adam, Alexa, add mail bagging to my to-do list. Everything that you'd want from people

01:11:32 ◼   ► handling your mail, it's in there in mail route. And here is the previously foreshadowed

01:11:37 ◼   ► deal. This is not valid for Ultron, by the way. This is only valid for humans. Not valid

01:11:42 ◼   ► for Alexa either, frankly. Go to mailroute.net/upgrade. That's the name of the show. That's how they

01:11:50 ◼   ► know that we sent you. You will get a free trial. You will get 10% off. You will not

01:11:55 ◼   ► get 10% off your first order or 10% off an order. You will get 10% off the lifetime of

01:12:01 ◼   ► your account by signing up. And there is a free trial, so you can give it a shot even

01:12:06 ◼   ► If you're not sure, before you buy, you can give it a shot and test it out and find out

01:12:10 ◼   ► if it's right for you.

01:12:11 ◼   ► mailroute.net/upgrade.

01:12:12 ◼   ► And thank you so much to MailRoute and not to Ultron for sponsoring Upgrade and supporting

01:12:18 ◼   ► Relay FM.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Thank you, MailRoute.

01:12:21 ◼   ► So I have a few Ask Upgrades for us.

01:12:23 ◼   ► So this one comes from Upgrading Robert.

01:12:27 ◼   ► I have a question regarding iCloud Drive and the OS X Documents folder.

01:12:31 ◼   ► I was thinking of moving my entire Documents folder, only 3.4GB to iCloud Drive to have

01:12:37 ◼   ► access to all of my documents from anywhere that I am.

01:12:40 ◼   ► Do you believe that this idea, placing all of my documents in iCloud Drive makes for

01:12:44 ◼   ► a sound strategy?

01:12:46 ◼   ► Does iCloud Drive work like Dropbox in that sense?

01:12:48 ◼   ► I assume there would still be a local copy on my Mac that I could continue to backup

01:12:52 ◼   ► with Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner.

01:12:55 ◼   ► As someone who's been reviewing Yosemite, iCloud and all of its options I'm curious

01:12:59 ◼   ► as to your opinion?

01:13:03 ◼   ► This is a good one.

01:13:05 ◼   ► Because I haven't even considered this.

01:13:07 ◼   ► But it makes sense in theory, because then apps that you use on your iOS devices could

01:13:12 ◼   ► easily get access to that by going into the document picker.

01:13:15 ◼   ► What would be the harm in doing this?

01:13:18 ◼   ► Other than iCloud chewing it all up, but in theory that doesn't happen, right?

01:13:24 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:25 ◼   ► If you've got the space for it, you could totally do it.

01:13:28 ◼   ► Um,

01:13:29 ◼   ► 3.4 gigs is not a lot.

01:13:31 ◼   ► Yeah, my only hesitation, but if you buy a lot of extra storage space for say, Photosync

01:13:35 ◼   ► and you've got 200 gigs left over, then you're in really good shape.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Um, my feeling is Dropbox gives you more information about what it's doing.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Uh, iCloud Drive is a "it just works" kind of thing where I feel like I don't have a

01:13:51 ◼   ► lot of feedback about what it's transferring and what it's not transferring. But, yeah,

01:13:58 ◼   ► you've got cloud storage. I would say you might want to try it out with some stuff and

01:14:04 ◼   ► see how it goes. It does auto sync in the background, it does a lot of those Dropbox-y

01:14:08 ◼   ► things, and if you've got the space available, then take advantage of it and see if it works

01:14:13 ◼   ► for you and if it makes your life easier to have that stuff syncing across your devices.

01:14:18 ◼   ► I think it's a perfectly valid thing.

01:14:21 ◼   ► My take on iCloud Drive is that it's probably not the best product for somebody who is more

01:14:26 ◼   ► finicky and technical and wants people like probably the listeners of the show who want

01:14:31 ◼   ► to, you know, are not satisfied with a smaller solution when a bigger one that's more complicated

01:14:39 ◼   ► and gives them more options will do.

01:14:41 ◼   ► But you know, iCloud Drive is Apple's attempt to do Dropbox for everybody.

01:14:45 ◼   ► I mean, just super simple built-in Dropbox essentially is what it is.

01:14:50 ◼   ► So yeah, I'd say give it a try.

01:14:52 ◼   ► I don't think it's going to eat your data and you can back it up because those files

01:14:55 ◼   ► are on your hard drive.

01:14:57 ◼   ► They should back up just fine.

01:14:59 ◼   ► So give it a try.

01:15:00 ◼   ► I think I wouldn't copy maybe everything.

01:15:02 ◼   ► I'd say try it with some of your documents that you use and see how it goes and maybe

01:15:07 ◼   ► move some more then and like do it gradually and see what happens.

01:15:11 ◼   ► That's what I would say.

01:15:12 ◼   ► We actually have more iCloud and space related questions. This one comes from Michael.

01:15:19 ◼   ► I'm using photos of iCloud library enabled. The space in iCloud is vastly different to that on the disk. Is this normal?

01:15:27 ◼   ► Uh...hmm. That's a good question. I don't know if that's normal. There are lots of weird things going on with space.

01:15:38 ◼   ► the space that your photos library lists is complicated

01:15:43 ◼   ► because it's first off, they're like the hard links

01:15:49 ◼   ► and stuff, but it should be a rough,

01:15:52 ◼   ► roughly what you're doing.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Although, let's see, I mean,

01:15:55 ◼   ► there's some things that don't sync,

01:15:56 ◼   ► but the media all syncs.

01:15:57 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:59 ◼   ► This is a good question.

01:16:00 ◼   ► It could be that the way that the sizes are measured

01:16:02 ◼   ► on your local disc versus in the cloud are different

01:16:07 ◼   ► that they actually measure the space differently.

01:16:10 ◼   ► It could be that you have duplicates that,

01:16:15 ◼   ► it shouldn't be that you have duplicates that are local,

01:16:19 ◼   ► that it doesn't bother

01:16:20 ◼   ► because it knows that they're duplicates,

01:16:21 ◼   ► although that's possible.

01:16:22 ◼   ► I don't think they transcode videos,

01:16:26 ◼   ► although they do transcode or convert your,

01:16:29 ◼   ► you've got a lot of pings, like screenshots and stuff.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Those all get converted to JPEGs, which are much smaller.

01:16:34 ◼   ► that's one example where things get converted. So I don't know vastly

01:16:38 ◼   ► different if it's still if it's done uploading and it says it's the same

01:16:41 ◼   ► number of photos in both places that is a little bit weird but I I don't it's so

01:16:47 ◼   ► early yet I don't have any I don't have an experience to match this so I'm not

01:16:51 ◼   ► quite sure what's going on there.

01:16:52 ◼   ► >>My only thought on this was the optimize disk space thing so you could have less

01:16:59 ◼   ► on the disk because

01:17:01 ◼   ► >>Sure yes if

01:17:02 ◼   ► >>It's physically less on the disk

01:17:03 ◼   ► If optimized disk space is turned on,

01:17:05 ◼   ► that would be the case, absolutely,

01:17:06 ◼   ► that you wouldn't have all those photos on your disk.

01:17:08 ◼   ► So the space in iCloud would be vastly larger

01:17:12 ◼   ► than the space on your disk.

01:17:14 ◼   ► But I don't know, I assumed that wasn't what he was asking,

01:17:17 ◼   ► but I don't know.

01:17:19 ◼   ► So there are some reasons,

01:17:21 ◼   ► but I would say make sure that the number that you're seeing

01:17:24 ◼   ► is the number that's in iCloud.

01:17:26 ◼   ► It's not resizing your photos or anything like that.

01:17:30 ◼   ► If you're doing iCloud photo library,

01:17:32 ◼   ► It's not resizing them.

01:17:34 ◼   ► And in fact, it's keeping the originals

01:17:36 ◼   ► and your edited versions.

01:17:38 ◼   ► So it should be in the ballpark.

01:17:41 ◼   ► -So this next question comes from Will,

01:17:44 ◼   ► and Will has asked, "Upgrade.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Curious to know what our thoughts are

01:17:49 ◼   ► on SoundCloud's podcast platform update."

01:17:52 ◼   ► And mentioned that timed comments

01:17:54 ◼   ► seem like an interesting thing.

01:17:56 ◼   ► -Yeah, so -- -So this is out of beta now.

01:17:58 ◼   ► -Yeah, it's been there for a long time.

01:17:59 ◼   ► In fact, we used this on the Macworld and Clockwise podcast

01:18:03 ◼   ► back at IDG because we were in the beta

01:18:05 ◼   ► and our chapter marks came through as comments

01:18:10 ◼   ► in SoundCloud, which is kind of interesting.

01:18:13 ◼   ► And people can leave comments

01:18:14 ◼   ► and it's a kind of a cool idea.

01:18:17 ◼   ► I don't know a lot of the details.

01:18:19 ◼   ► When it was in beta, it was kind of weird.

01:18:23 ◼   ► It was like hard to find the download URL.

01:18:24 ◼   ► SoundCloud really wanted plays.

01:18:27 ◼   ► If you weren't in a podcast app,

01:18:28 ◼   ► they really wanted the plays to be in their embedded player,

01:18:32 ◼   ► which is a problem because sometimes you want the MP3 URL

01:18:35 ◼   ► to pass somewhere or to link to.

01:18:38 ◼   ► And so it got kind of frustrating,

01:18:39 ◼   ► like they were playing hide the MP3 with the user,

01:18:43 ◼   ► which I really didn't like.

01:18:44 ◼   ► I also didn't love the fact that they showed every play.

01:18:47 ◼   ► So like everybody knew, if you use SoundCloud,

01:18:49 ◼   ► everybody knows exactly how many people downloaded

01:18:51 ◼   ► every episode that you did.

01:18:53 ◼   ► - I checked this, you can turn that off.

01:18:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is the thing,

01:18:57 ◼   ► it seems to not do that anymore. So that's cool. And I think they got better about the

01:19:02 ◼   ► download URL thing too. So I think it's great that there's another player. I taught a class,

01:19:07 ◼   ► I mentioned this in a previous show about podcasting, and then I just spoke at this

01:19:12 ◼   ► conference about podcasting. One of the questions is, where do I put my files? And there are

01:19:16 ◼   ► not a lot of great answers because your web hoster is probably not going to get behind

01:19:21 ◼   ► you posting an hour of podcast every week. You at some point are going to need somebody

01:19:27 ◼   ► to host that stuff. And adding SoundCloud to the list adds another player here. And

01:19:33 ◼   ► SoundCloud seems to really want to be the container of sound on the internet. And so

01:19:38 ◼   ► them supporting podcasting is really cool. That said, I don't use it. And I don't know

01:19:46 ◼   ► if I would want things like formal commenting from listeners on SoundCloud because then

01:19:52 ◼   ► it's on SoundCloud and it's on their site and it's not on my site. It's not on Relay,

01:19:56 ◼   ► it's not on Incomparable, it's over on SoundCloud and that's what they want is they want to

01:20:02 ◼   ► draw everybody to their platform. So I like it as another option and for some people it

01:20:09 ◼   ► may be really great. I'm not entirely sure it's one that I particularly want to participate

01:20:13 ◼   ► in but maybe. I think it's great that it's finally public because that was in beta for

01:20:16 ◼   ► like what two years something like that a long time. So when people used to ask

01:20:20 ◼   ► me about SoundCloud before and like why I didn't use them or what I thought about

01:20:24 ◼   ► them I said I wasn't gonna go near it until they had a business model because

01:20:27 ◼   ► during the beta it was just free and now they have a business model which is

01:20:31 ◼   ► awesome because you can pay right and you get upload time increases and you

01:20:37 ◼   ► get additional statistic information which is kind of like what Libsyn has

01:20:41 ◼   ► as well right the more you pay the more data you get but I would still not go

01:20:47 ◼   ► with them myself I may say check them out if you're interested and mine is

01:20:50 ◼   ► because the company that I use Libsyn have been in business for over 10 years

01:20:54 ◼   ► and they've been doing this for 10 years and I know that what they do works I

01:20:58 ◼   ► haven't used SoundCloud I'm not interested in using a brand a brand new

01:21:03 ◼   ► but a new thing when my old thing works great like especially for something

01:21:09 ◼   ► which for me is so important.

01:21:10 ◼   ► I might test it out and play around a little bit more,

01:21:12 ◼   ► but for now I'm gonna stick with where I am.

01:21:16 ◼   ► - Right, well it's nice that there are more options.

01:21:19 ◼   ► You're right, it does actually make a lot of us uneasy

01:21:22 ◼   ► when it's something that's being given away for free.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Instead of, I feel good about paying Libsyn.

01:21:27 ◼   ► As strange as it sounds, it's like look,

01:21:29 ◼   ► on some levels I feel like given how much data

01:21:33 ◼   ► is being transferred there,

01:21:34 ◼   ► I'm not sure I'm paying them enough, honestly,

01:21:36 ◼   ► but I'm glad that they have a business

01:21:37 ◼   ► and I'm paying them, I feel like comfortable in that.

01:21:42 ◼   ► And with SoundCloud, it's like,

01:21:43 ◼   ► why are they giving everybody free podcasting?

01:21:45 ◼   ► What's the end game here?

01:21:46 ◼   ► And like I said, I think maybe the end game is

01:21:48 ◼   ► you get to host your podcasts

01:21:50 ◼   ► and we get your content in our ecosystem

01:21:52 ◼   ► where we can auto tag it and connect it to other things

01:21:55 ◼   ► and just kind of keep people in SoundCloud.

01:21:57 ◼   ► But that's a little like YouTube, right?

01:21:59 ◼   ► And we know how the YouTubers feel

01:22:01 ◼   ► about everybody being in YouTube

01:22:03 ◼   ► is there may come a time when they say,

01:22:05 ◼   ► we're gonna put ads in your content

01:22:07 ◼   ► And if you want to sell ads, you need to cut us in,

01:22:09 ◼   ► or you need to go somewhere else,

01:22:12 ◼   ► but we're really the only game in town.

01:22:13 ◼   ► And that's the scary part of that kind of situation.

01:22:16 ◼   ► But the SoundCloud people are cool.

01:22:18 ◼   ► I've met them.

01:22:19 ◼   ► I met some of them when I was in Berlin a few years ago.

01:22:22 ◼   ► And it's a cool service,

01:22:24 ◼   ► and I think people should check it out.

01:22:25 ◼   ► But they should also check out Libsyn

01:22:27 ◼   ► and see if their ISP lets them post files

01:22:30 ◼   ► for their podcast too.

01:22:32 ◼   ► Yeah, it's good.

01:22:33 ◼   ► I like people making,

01:22:35 ◼   ► I like businesses making tools for podcasters

01:22:36 ◼   ► because that doesn't happen a lot and it's a good sign that there's more of that now.

01:22:42 ◼   ► And last question today from Rob, what does the Apple Watch, we spoke a little bit about

01:22:49 ◼   ► this earlier, what does the Apple Watch consider exercise that fills the ring, the exercise

01:22:52 ◼   ► ring? Is it based on heart rate? I assume that is the case.

01:22:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's time above a target heart rate. I think that's what it is. It's like

01:23:00 ◼   ► you have to have enough time above the target heart rate. That's, you know, aerobic exercise.

01:23:05 ◼   ► It's like you're you if you don't lift your heart rate like walking is great being active

01:23:10 ◼   ► and not sedentary but if your heart doesn't go above a certain rate that it you know whatever

01:23:15 ◼   ► it's it's using as its baseline it doesn't consider that exercise because you're not

01:23:20 ◼   ► you know it's nice to take a walk but but if you're not raising your heart rate you're

01:23:25 ◼   ► not really getting exercise.

01:23:27 ◼   ► Yeah that makes sense to me.

01:23:29 ◼   ► I wondered if you knew but if you don't then that makes sense.

01:23:34 ◼   ► I think that's my educated guess but I don't know for sure.

01:23:37 ◼   ► Cool, so, spoiler on time.

01:23:40 ◼   ► [music]

01:23:44 ◼   ► Right, so I didn't want to spend a ton of time on this.

01:23:47 ◼   ► Sure, because this is not Myke watches a movie, you know.

01:23:51 ◼   ► Yeah, we're doing that next week.

01:23:52 ◼   ► Next week.

01:23:53 ◼   ► So I need to watch a movie this week.

01:23:55 ◼   ► And of course you did a great episode of The Incomparable

01:23:58 ◼   ► that I'm about halfway through, which is a lot of fun.

01:24:03 ◼   ► Andy isn't totally breaking my heart yet.

01:24:07 ◼   ► He's kind of slightly breaking it.

01:24:09 ◼   ► -Andy's not feeling the magic of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

01:24:12 ◼   ► That's true, but I think him not absolutely loving it

01:24:16 ◼   ► and questioning -- I think Andy and Iko

01:24:20 ◼   ► has a lot of existential thoughts about, like, you know,

01:24:23 ◼   ► "Is this a movie or is it part of a franchise?

01:24:25 ◼   ► Did we get what we paid for versus could they have been

01:24:30 ◼   ► a little more, you know, ambitious and in certain ways.

01:24:34 ◼   ► And I like being challenged by Andy.

01:24:37 ◼   ► He didn't sort of like hijack the podcast

01:24:40 ◼   ► where we all end up just kind of pelting him with questions,

01:24:43 ◼   ► which is sort of what happened

01:24:44 ◼   ► with the first "Avengers" episode we did.

01:24:46 ◼   ► But, you know, I think Andy raises a lot of valid points.

01:24:49 ◼   ► What I said on the podcast about,

01:24:52 ◼   ► that we did yesterday about "Age of Ultron" is,

01:24:54 ◼   ► it's kind of like not a movie.

01:24:55 ◼   ► It's like something new.

01:24:56 ◼   ► This is a new, these franchise continuing story,

01:24:59 ◼   ► feature films. They have to be feature films because they need to charge people a lot of

01:25:03 ◼   ► money. They need to earn a billion dollars to pay for these giants, all these special

01:25:06 ◼   ► effects and the actors and all that. But they're kind of not movies, right? They're installments

01:25:11 ◼   ► in a collection of things. It's not a TV series quite, but it's not just a movie either. Like,

01:25:17 ◼   ► I remember when I saw the sixth Harry Potter movie, I very much had the reaction like they

01:25:21 ◼   ► should have put a "previously" on Harry Potter at the beginning because really what I was

01:25:24 ◼   ► watching was two and a half hours of the latest episode of an annual released television series

01:25:31 ◼   ► that goes to theaters, but is much more like a television series. It's recurring characters.

01:25:36 ◼   ► We see them again. It's the next year. What's the next story? There's a story arc, and then

01:25:40 ◼   ► there's an individual plot in the movie, but there's a bigger story arc. And the Marvel

01:25:43 ◼   ► movies are like that. I feel like the Star Wars movies are probably going to be like

01:25:46 ◼   ► that too. DC wants to do it with their superhero movies. So I thought Andy asked some interesting

01:25:51 ◼   ► challenging questions about like the nature of what are you trying to get out of this

01:25:54 ◼   ► thing? And is this a movie you enjoy or is it kind of part of a larger thing? And yeah,

01:25:59 ◼   ► he totally isn't under the spell of it. But at the same time, he thought it was better

01:26:02 ◼   ► than the last one and saw the positive as well as the negative in it. And I thought

01:26:05 ◼   ► that was a good conversation to have because they are, these are not like, you know, movies

01:26:11 ◼   ► as we used to think of them. These are franchise installments or something. That all said,

01:26:17 ◼   ► I had a great time. So I really liked it. Did you like it?

01:26:22 ◼   ► I loved it. Absolutely loved it. I got to see it like 10 days ago because it was released early in the UK.

01:26:28 ◼   ► The premiere was here and my understanding was the government gave like a ton of money to Disney.

01:26:35 ◼   ► It's like in tax breaks and stuff. They shot a lot of it here and it's a thing that's happening

01:26:39 ◼   ► more and more especially with the Marvel movies. Many of the Marvel movies including the last Iron

01:26:44 ◼   ► movie were released earlier like by like two weeks nearly in the UK which is

01:26:48 ◼   ► great for me because we very rarely, Disney is typically very bad at this

01:26:52 ◼   ► with their animation they release things here like a month two months three

01:26:56 ◼   ► months late it's really weird and it was one movie I can't remember which one it

01:27:00 ◼   ► was one of the Pixar movies where it was getting ready to be released on video in

01:27:05 ◼   ► the US before it came out here so you know it can suck and I don't really understand why but we

01:27:12 ◼   ► got it a bit early which is great and I think the thing that I've heard so far

01:27:16 ◼   ► that I didn't agree with especially with Andy and I think a couple other people

01:27:21 ◼   ► on the panel was the action scenes I loved every single one of them the fight

01:27:25 ◼   ► scenes the fight scenes that were confusing I loved them because they were

01:27:29 ◼   ► confusing because I feel like they were meant to be they were meant to just be

01:27:33 ◼   ► chaos like you just fog or crazy stuff is happening yeah like the first one

01:27:38 ◼   ► like the first the first one like the first scene the assault on the castle-y

01:27:43 ◼   ► thing yeah and it was just kind of like for me it was like this is all crazy no

01:27:48 ◼   ► one really knows what's going on because the Avengers felt kind of ambushed in

01:27:51 ◼   ► that scenario for us the amount of people that were there right and then it

01:27:55 ◼   ► was kind of just like here is a bunch of superheroes like smashing into stuff

01:27:59 ◼   ► like for a bit and I feel like it was kind of like let's get this one out of

01:28:03 ◼   ► the way because the other ones later have more meaning to them yeah and it

01:28:07 ◼   ► It was kind of just--

01:28:08 ◼   ► - I mean, not to get all meta on it,

01:28:09 ◼   ► but you could argue,

01:28:10 ◼   ► I feel like sometimes I was arguing this last night

01:28:13 ◼   ► to not a lot of reaction is,

01:28:16 ◼   ► the action is there because people want action

01:28:19 ◼   ► and the action was great

01:28:20 ◼   ► and there are those moments

01:28:21 ◼   ► that look like comic book panels

01:28:23 ◼   ► and although I have some problems with the opening,

01:28:26 ◼   ► the great thing about the opening

01:28:27 ◼   ► is it establishes the characters.

01:28:28 ◼   ► That they're fighting kind of is beside the point,

01:28:31 ◼   ► character wise, plot wise.

01:28:33 ◼   ► It opens the movie with a bang,

01:28:36 ◼   ► But that's also, you know, what's, I think,

01:28:38 ◼   ► the most important thing in that entire 20 minutes

01:28:40 ◼   ► is the dialogue.

01:28:41 ◼   ► It's the interactions, it's the humor,

01:28:43 ◼   ► and the interactions between the characters.

01:28:45 ◼   ► It's like the explosions make it all go down better.

01:28:48 ◼   ► But, you know, what we're really doing is like,

01:28:50 ◼   ► checking with your friends that you haven't seen for a while

01:28:53 ◼   ► and what are they up to?

01:28:54 ◼   ► Oh, they're assaulting a castle.

01:28:55 ◼   ► Tell me more, right?

01:28:57 ◼   ► - And there were also some parts there

01:28:58 ◼   ► that were set up for the rest of the movie,

01:29:00 ◼   ► like Captain America and Thor are now like a duo.

01:29:04 ◼   ► That wasn't in any other movie, but now they're like,

01:29:07 ◼   ► they use each other to make their own attacks more,

01:29:12 ◼   ► they hit harder, right?

01:29:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, I love hitting the hammer with the,

01:29:16 ◼   ► or hitting, using the hammer to hit the shield

01:29:18 ◼   ► is a pretty awesome move.

01:29:20 ◼   ► - There was a bunch of that.

01:29:21 ◼   ► And just in general, there was a lot more,

01:29:23 ◼   ► especially in the action scenes,

01:29:24 ◼   ► interplay between the characters,

01:29:26 ◼   ► which shows them as a team.

01:29:27 ◼   ► And I really loved all of that.

01:29:30 ◼   ► - That's the whole point of the movie is,

01:29:31 ◼   ► I mean, Serenity on The Incomparable called it

01:29:33 ◼   ► a capstone of the, you see everybody in their own movies and then this is where you get

01:29:38 ◼   ► them together and the whole point is yes it is overstuffed but the whole point is you

01:29:41 ◼   ► get to see them together. That's why you do a team up. It's like you know, hey Iron Man,

01:29:47 ◼   ► Thor, Captain America, Black Widow, they're all talking to each other and the Hulk and

01:29:51 ◼   ► they're all, you know, we don't get to see that when they're off in other movies but

01:29:55 ◼   ► here they're all together bouncing off each other and that's fun.

01:29:58 ◼   ► I was very happy for the character development in general.

01:30:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:02 ◼   ► Hawkeye's character development, like, that whole arc of like,

01:30:07 ◼   ► he seems to be crazy again, oh it seems like he's working for the other side, right?

01:30:13 ◼   ► There's that whole like, you know, I don't know if you caught that, but like when he's on the phone and he's saying like,

01:30:16 ◼   ► "Yes, Marlin, they work for you."

01:30:18 ◼   ► And I was like, "Ooh, Hydra."

01:30:20 ◼   ► And then it was like, "Oh no, wait, family on a farm."

01:30:22 ◼   ► And it's like, "Whaaat?"

01:30:23 ◼   ► And I love when it goes to the farm, I don't know if, I hope other people will get this reference.

01:30:27 ◼   ► it reminded me of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie when they go to like the super

01:30:31 ◼   ► sad house. Do you remember that? It's like one of the turtles movies and they go to like

01:30:36 ◼   ► this weird house in the country and they hang out for a few days and everyone's sad.

01:30:39 ◼   ► - I know nothing about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles but I totally get it. It's your

01:30:44 ◼   ► defeated heroes have to like lick their wounds and rededicate themselves to... I love scenes

01:30:49 ◼   ► like that in these kinds of movies where they have to, you know, talk... they have to talk

01:30:55 ◼   ► amongst themselves and it's good for character moments and then they rededicate themselves

01:30:59 ◼   ► and then they go back out and fight the bad guy again. It's good stuff. And I thought

01:31:04 ◼   ► they did a really great job of it. And in the Hawkeye's secret farm with his secret

01:31:10 ◼   ► wife who is Linda Cardellini from Freaks and Geeks. And I had that moment of like, has

01:31:14 ◼   ► it been that long that now she plays a mom? She was a high school student just like the

01:31:19 ◼   ► other day on Freaks and Geeks and now she's Hawkeye's wife but I thought she was great.

01:31:26 ◼   ► That's a hard part to just be, "Well you're going to be the wife and mom of a superhero."

01:31:31 ◼   ► But they did some good casting and she was really great.

01:31:34 ◼   ► And that was just all very unexpected and I was very very happy to have all of that.

01:31:40 ◼   ► I liked, I see the criticism, but I liked the Black Widow's increased storyline as well.

01:31:49 ◼   ► I understand why it upsets people, and I get it about it being that she's in love with

01:31:55 ◼   ► someone, but it was kind of the same for Bruce Banner as well.

01:31:59 ◼   ► Like we kind of, if you've only, I mean, if you look at Mark Ruffalo's character, like

01:32:05 ◼   ► Mark Ruffalo has had the least amount of time in the movies, potentially?

01:32:10 ◼   ► Exactly. He has absolutely had the least amount. He's only in the other Avengers movie. That's it.

01:32:15 ◼   ► And I think, I mean, I don't know, I'd really like to see what Marvel and Disney's take on if the previous Hulk movies are canon or not?

01:32:24 ◼   ► Well, so the Ang Lee one isn't, but the Edward Norton one is.

01:32:27 ◼   ► Okay.

01:32:28 ◼   ► That's the one that's got Tony Stark having a drink

01:32:30 ◼   ► with the general in the one scene

01:32:33 ◼   ► to make it kind of like tied in, but not.

01:32:36 ◼   ► But I kind of want a Hulk and Black Widow movie now.

01:32:39 ◼   ► - Yes, me too.

01:32:40 ◼   ► - Because if they're afraid of doing a Hulk movie

01:32:42 ◼   ► and Black Widow's in all the shield movies,

01:32:43 ◼   ► I mean, you could argue that although she hasn't had,

01:32:45 ◼   ► she hasn't been a title character,

01:32:47 ◼   ► she is super important in Winter Soldier.

01:32:50 ◼   ► She's, I mean, she is a key to that film.

01:32:52 ◼   ► - She is as important in Winter Soldier

01:32:54 ◼   ► as Captain America is.

01:32:56 ◼   ► - I think that's right.

01:32:57 ◼   ► I mean, it's like her and Nick Fury and Captain America is what that movie is.

01:33:01 ◼   ► - It's like a body cop movie though.

01:33:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is.

01:33:03 ◼   ► It is.

01:33:04 ◼   ► We're down at the police station, except it's super police station.

01:33:06 ◼   ► - Super police.

01:33:07 ◼   ► Super corrupt Nazi police.

01:33:09 ◼   ► - So you're right.

01:33:10 ◼   ► I mean, we need to be on guard on the trope of like, "Oh sure, the only woman in the Avengers

01:33:13 ◼   ► and she's got a love interest."

01:33:15 ◼   ► But at the same time, the Hulk, you know, Bruce Banner, that is, it's happening to both

01:33:20 ◼   ► of them.

01:33:21 ◼   ► They also, it's not a relationship from the comics.

01:33:26 ◼   ► So I feel like it's also a reaction to how great they were together in the first Avengers

01:33:29 ◼   ► movie, which they were, and saying, "Well, that's really interesting."

01:33:33 ◼   ► And I think it does.

01:33:34 ◼   ► The thing is, yeah, we can talk about, you know, does this put her in a girlfriend context?

01:33:38 ◼   ► And that can be an issue.

01:33:39 ◼   ► But I love that it tells us some things about her character.

01:33:43 ◼   ► I think I really enjoyed the scene where she says, "Everybody I know wants to kill people.

01:33:49 ◼   ► I'm surrounded.

01:33:50 ◼   ► Everybody I know is in the business of killing and hurting people and breaking things.

01:33:55 ◼   ► And you are the only person I know who doesn't want to do it, who's fighting with everything

01:34:01 ◼   ► they've got to not kill people.

01:34:04 ◼   ► And I like that because that's what's interesting about Banner, right?

01:34:06 ◼   ► Is he is as reluctant as you can get.

01:34:10 ◼   ► And so the fact that she's attracted to that because he's the resistance.

01:34:17 ◼   ► Also that she's sort of like the Hulk whisperer now is also kind of cool because we remember

01:34:21 ◼   ► that she was really terrified of the Hulk in the first Avengers movie on the

01:34:25 ◼   ► alligator carrier. That's kind of a cool little bit too. So I thought that was fun.

01:34:29 ◼   ► I think I do think you got to be on guard but I think generally I think Joss

01:34:33 ◼   ► Whedon did a good job making Black Widow have more depth and be a more

01:34:41 ◼   ► interesting character and so I thought that was good.

01:34:44 ◼   ► I did take from it as well that that she was the one with the control in the

01:34:49 ◼   ► relationship which was a different kind of take you know especially if you're

01:34:54 ◼   ► saying like I get like the idea of the girlfriend complex but I would argue

01:34:57 ◼   ► that potentially Bruce Banner fills that role because he is like she has actual

01:35:05 ◼   ► control over him and if you were looking at it like the way that those things

01:35:08 ◼   ► they usually played out it maybe was slightly flipped the way that I know she

01:35:13 ◼   ► actually has control over him by you know and not only just these emotions but

01:35:19 ◼   ► she's the only one that can control the Hulk which is very interesting as a

01:35:24 ◼   ► thing. Yeah yeah no I liked I liked I liked all that stuff what else what else

01:35:29 ◼   ► you got this is you know I talked about it for an hour and a half yesterday so

01:35:33 ◼   ► I really I really liked and saw the idea of let's not kill everyone I liked that

01:35:38 ◼   ► I feel like that they didn't take it too far in my opinion like the idea of

01:35:46 ◼   ► searching, scanning buildings, checking for civilians like I appreciated that

01:35:51 ◼   ► and liked that and felt that they did a really good job of that. I genuinely

01:35:56 ◼   ► believe though that like raising that town above the rest of the earth was

01:36:00 ◼   ► like a metaphor of all that kind of stuff like this is an isolated area and

01:36:06 ◼   ► And I really loved Wren's idea of this being incomparable, that it was everybody was reacting

01:36:12 ◼   ► that way because of PTSD from New York.

01:36:15 ◼   ► Didn't think of it that way, thought that was really smart.

01:36:18 ◼   ► I agree.

01:36:19 ◼   ► The idea that they went through a situation where there was this horrible destruction

01:36:24 ◼   ► and that they were trying not to.

01:36:26 ◼   ► And although I do agree that you can read it as a commentary on Man of Steel.

01:36:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it was a commentary on Man of Steel,

01:36:35 ◼   ► but the like the in-story reason is because of New York.

01:36:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, and I think it's broader than that.

01:36:40 ◼   ► I think that, I think it's also just like these

01:36:44 ◼   ► are who our heroes are, is that, I mean,

01:36:46 ◼   ► there's that moment where Hawkeye,

01:36:48 ◼   ► who we've been set up to be like,

01:36:49 ◼   ► oh, he's totally gonna die,

01:36:50 ◼   ► 'cause we've seen all the signs of him saying goodbye

01:36:52 ◼   ► to his wife and kids and all that stuff, right?

01:36:54 ◼   ► But then he sees the kid trapped under the rubble

01:36:56 ◼   ► and he's sitting in his safe, you know, little chair

01:36:59 ◼   ► and he has a look on his face, he's like,

01:37:01 ◼   ► "Oh, geez, I gotta go out there.

01:37:04 ◼   ► Probably gonna get me killed,

01:37:05 ◼   ► but I can't leave that kid there."

01:37:07 ◼   ► - Was very surprised they killed off Quicksilver.

01:37:09 ◼   ► That surprised me.

01:37:10 ◼   ► That seemed like a really good character

01:37:12 ◼   ► with a lot of space to grow.

01:37:14 ◼   ► - So here's the thing.

01:37:15 ◼   ► Quicksilver's not really much of an Avenger.

01:37:16 ◼   ► He's much more of an X-Men character,

01:37:18 ◼   ► and Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are shared

01:37:21 ◼   ► between the X-Men and Avengers franchises.

01:37:24 ◼   ► And there was a Quicksilver

01:37:25 ◼   ► in the latest X-Men movie, in fact.

01:37:28 ◼   ► So in hindsight, I'm not surprised

01:37:31 ◼   ► killed him off because he's not really an Avengers kind of character and Scarlet Witch

01:37:37 ◼   ► is very much an Avengers character. So it sort of makes sense. Like they don't really

01:37:43 ◼   ► need him. They go together. They're a pair. They're brother and sister. They're the children

01:37:47 ◼   ► of Magneto, except they can't say that in this movie because they don't own Magneto.

01:37:50 ◼   ► That is a different studio that has Magneto. But that actually leads into something that

01:37:57 ◼   ► I also wanted to point out, which is when I started to read comics, Avengers comics

01:38:02 ◼   ► in the eighties, the two leaders of the, of the Avengers were not iron man and captain

01:38:07 ◼   ► America. They were the vision and the Scarlet witch. And so seeing vision and the Scarlet

01:38:11 ◼   ► witch, and they even put a scene cause Joss Whedon is not that much older than me. He

01:38:15 ◼   ► even put in a scene where vision flies and saves her and like puts his arms around her

01:38:20 ◼   ► and lifts her up into the air. And I thought, Ooh, because they're married in the comics,

01:38:25 ◼   ► least in the 80s they were married, Vision and the Scarlet Witch, and they were the power

01:38:29 ◼   ► couple of the Avengers. And so it was fun to see those characters because those are

01:38:33 ◼   ► sort of like my Avengers are a little more like the Avengers we see at the end of the

01:38:37 ◼   ► movie where it's the Vision and the Scarlet Witch in the mix. So that was a lot of fun

01:38:42 ◼   ► actually to see those characters. I thought Vision was really neat because it's Paul Bettany

01:38:45 ◼   ► who's been the voice of Jarvis all along. And now he gets to be the android with the

01:38:52 ◼   ► red skin and a little mind gem and he's floating around with his cape and I thought that was

01:38:57 ◼   ► kind of cool.

01:38:58 ◼   ► And I like that plot twist that Ultron's building his evolved body to rule over the earth and

01:39:06 ◼   ► they steal it and replace him with Jarvis and create the vision.

01:39:11 ◼   ► That was a lot of fun.

01:39:12 ◼   ► I liked that whole character creation.

01:39:15 ◼   ► I'm very interested in what is next for the Avengers now because the movie kind of sets

01:39:20 ◼   ► it's up at the end like New Avengers and it's like whoa but now I don't understand where

01:39:25 ◼   ► like everybody fits and I guess that's the next like two years worth of movies to tell

01:39:29 ◼   ► me how that all works out. I was very happy with the movie overall I really really enjoyed

01:39:37 ◼   ► it I came away from it and had very good feelings about it and

01:39:40 ◼   ► it was fun I enjoyed it a lot and my family was trying to see it this weekend and they

01:39:44 ◼   ► didn't make it so I'm gonna have to see it with them next weekend and you know what I'm

01:39:47 ◼   ► looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to watching it again. It was a lot of fun.

01:39:53 ◼   ► And I do think, given where they're going, I think we were going to be in one of those

01:39:57 ◼   ► situations where we're going to have a movie where the new Avengers are really involved,

01:40:01 ◼   ► these new people we've been introduced to, and then there's going to be that moment where

01:40:05 ◼   ► they have to kind of call in Tony Stark out of retirement to help solve whatever. I think

01:40:10 ◼   ► some of that may go on. But it'll be fun. You can lose track of your characters when

01:40:16 ◼   ► you have too many characters and that's true but also how long are all these actors going

01:40:19 ◼   ► to be able to do these parts so I think that I think it's good to have some of those new

01:40:22 ◼   ► characters in the mix because like Robert Downey Jr. is not going to want to be Tony

01:40:26 ◼   ► Stark or at least be Tony Stark as Iron Man doing lots of stunts and stuff for a whole

01:40:32 ◼   ► lot longer you think so good to have some other people who can come in and you know

01:40:38 ◼   ► fly around and stuff.

01:40:39 ◼   ► You bet so thumbs up from me.

01:40:43 ◼   ► And next week we are going to talk about Raiders of the Lost Ark.

01:40:45 ◼   ► We are indeed.

01:40:46 ◼   ► Which you have not yet seen.

01:40:47 ◼   ► Which I have not yet seen.

01:40:49 ◼   ► So that's something to look out for next week.

01:40:51 ◼   ► Awesome.

01:40:52 ◼   ► But that about wraps it up for this week's episode.

01:40:53 ◼   ► If you want to catch our show notes you can go to relay.fm/upgrade/35.

01:40:57 ◼   ► If you want to find us online there's a couple of ways you can do that.

01:41:01 ◼   ► I am @imike and Jason is @jsnell on Twitter.

01:41:08 ◼   ► He is also the editor-in-chief over at SixColors.com, along with, you know, help from people like

01:41:15 ◼   ► Mr. Dan Warren, who I would like to issue a formal apology for, for everything we've

01:41:18 ◼   ► done to his house during this week's episode.

01:41:22 ◼   ► Thanks again to our sponsors this week, our good friends over at Linda, Making Light,

01:41:26 ◼   ► and Mail Route, and we'll be back next time.

01:41:29 ◼   ► 'Til then, say goodbye to Jason Snell.

01:41:32 ◼   ► Alexa, kill Dan.

01:41:34 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:41:37 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:41:40 ◼   ► [ Music ]