Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode number 45. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Build It Beautiful, Stampstar.com, Post-It On Demand, and the New Mexico Tea Company,

00:00:19 ◼   ► making excellent teas available to people all around the world. My name is Myke Hurley,

00:00:23 ◼   ► and I'm joined, as always, by your host of mine, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Hello Myke, how's it going?

00:00:29 ◼   ► I'm very well sir, how are you?

00:00:31 ◼   ► It's Monday, start of a new week, upgrade time.

00:00:33 ◼   ► It's Monday.

00:00:34 ◼   ► It is, it is like, this is just how we start our week.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Although you have, you live an entire Monday before you get to this point.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Yeah, it's 7pm in the evening right now.

00:00:42 ◼   ► It's Monday morning, so it's really the kickoff.

00:00:46 ◼   ► I can do some basic stuff at the beginning, but this is really the big kickoff of my week

00:00:52 ◼   ► right here.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Yep, we, I guess that's what the relay in relay is for. So I begin to end my day, you

00:00:59 ◼   ► start your day. That's how it works. Interesting. I thought you meant that this is just the

00:01:03 ◼   ► first leg in a marathon relay of podcasts that lasts the entire week all the way through.

00:01:09 ◼   ► How about that? That too, Monday to Friday, worldwide. Really worldwide.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Yeah. Sure. Switch on. That's all I know.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Should we do some follow-up?

00:01:22 ◼   ► Uh, yeah, that's a good idea.

00:01:24 ◼   ► So, Paul wrote in, because if you remember last week, Jason, you were bemoaning the fact

00:01:30 ◼   ► that on Apple Music, you cannot shuffle a whole artist.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Shuffle an artist, right.

00:01:35 ◼   ► And I had several people say, "Well, sure you can.

00:01:37 ◼   ► You just add all of their music to your music library and then shuffle it."

00:01:40 ◼   ► I was like, "That's not what I meant."

00:01:43 ◼   ► No.

00:01:44 ◼   ► You meant as a--you take one artist and then you just shuffle all their music, right, is

00:01:48 ◼   ► the idea.

00:01:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I find a random artist that I kind of am interested in and say, "Alright, just play

00:01:55 ◼   ► me, you know, shuffle everything."

00:01:57 ◼   ► And you know, you can choose if there's a curated playlist, you can do that, but otherwise

00:02:01 ◼   ► you need to add it to your library in order to do it.

00:02:04 ◼   ► But Paul had a little nuance that we hadn't mentioned, which I liked.

00:02:09 ◼   ► So basically, what Paul said, that when you have these artists, I don't know if it's in

00:02:15 ◼   ► your library or not, I think this is even in your library.

00:02:18 ◼   ► If you have two albums or less, you have an option to shuffle everything, but if you have

00:02:23 ◼   ► more than two, then you cannot shuffle.

00:02:26 ◼   ► There is no shuffle option.

00:02:27 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:02:31 ◼   ► I mean, I will grant you that a lot of these artists, the catalogs are messy, right?

00:02:39 ◼   ► There are, I was talking to Dan Morin about this earlier.

00:02:41 ◼   ► We had a little Skype chat that a podcast almost broke out, but we stopped it in time.

00:02:46 ◼   ► I was like, "I'm gonna say that for the other podcast." But we were talking about this.

00:02:50 ◼   ► Everybody uses music differently. It's such a complicated thing that it is true that I

00:02:56 ◼   ► think that Apple Music feels like it's a work in progress, but it's also, let's give them

00:03:01 ◼   ► some credit. This is a very difficult thing to get right. And they're starting from not

00:03:07 ◼   ► from scratch, but from like a year of Beats music development. But one of the problems

00:03:12 ◼   ► here is you see an artist and you say, "Well, I would like to just sort of shuffle through

00:03:16 ◼   ► their work." There's like live stuff and singles and there's all this junk in there that's

00:03:24 ◼   ► probably not canonical, like you wouldn't want it in the shuffle, ideally. And so that's

00:03:30 ◼   ► a problem. How do you do that? And, you know, I think basically if they've covered it with

00:03:35 ◼   ► playlists then you're pretty good. You could just listen to the, you know, the intro to

00:03:40 ◼   ► whatever playlist and that would be a good way to get started with an artist but they're

00:03:43 ◼   ► not always available and you know so I don't know maybe maybe they need to I like the idea

00:03:51 ◼   ► of sort of saying here here are all of their studio albums would you like to listen to

00:03:55 ◼   ► all of this or add all of these or something like that because right now it is kind of

00:03:59 ◼   ► messy because you'll get all this extra you know iTunes sessions and other stuff like

00:04:04 ◼   ► that that's thrown in single versions that are just the same song that's over there but

00:04:08 ◼   ► it's over here and you know what which makes sense if you're buying music but not if you're

00:04:13 ◼   ► if you're just subscribing.

00:04:14 ◼   ► >>ANDY Or an album's deluxe edition.

00:04:16 ◼   ► >>DAVID Oh yeah I see that a lot. The deluxe edition. Yeah.

00:04:20 ◼   ► >>ANDY Beats used to do a good thing with this where I haven't looked at the Listen

00:04:25 ◼   ► Apple Music so I don't know if it does it. When you'd see an album and it would have

00:04:28 ◼   ► a little drop down that said one other version or whatever and it would show if there was

00:04:31 ◼   ► the deluxe edition or limited edition or a re-edition or whatever or maybe like a remaster

00:04:37 ◼   ► could select and it would you could press the drop down it would select you could choose which one

00:04:41 ◼   ► you wanted to listen to quite like that kept kept the view a bit cleaner i was doing i did a search

00:04:47 ◼   ► this weekend for um david bowie for uh ziggy stardust in the spiders from mars because there's a

00:04:54 ◼   ► there's in one of the four episodes of the incomparable that i dropped last week there's

00:04:59 ◼   ► a sing-along at the end to a couple of songs from that album and i wanted to listen to the originals

00:05:03 ◼   ► perhaps to clear the sing-along out of my head, and I discovered that indeed there was

00:05:08 ◼   ► the 30th anniversary edition or whatever, and then there was also the original, and

00:05:15 ◼   ► it's just, you know, it's just kind of messy. I think one of them was just, you know, the

00:05:18 ◼   ► main album, and one of them is the main album plus a bunch of bonus material, but, you know,

00:05:22 ◼   ► it's just kind of messy that it's not, you know, this is one of the challenges with these

00:05:27 ◼   ► catalogs is sometimes there's just a whole lot of junk, and then when you have access

00:05:30 ◼   ► to all of it, it gets more complicated.

00:05:34 ◼   ► That was on episode 255B of The Incomparable.

00:05:37 ◼   ► Yes, it was.

00:05:38 ◼   ► You're killing me, you know.

00:05:40 ◼   ► You are killing me right now.

00:05:41 ◼   ► We released 255A, B, C, and D last week.

00:05:44 ◼   ► How many more are there?

00:05:46 ◼   ► Well, that's it for 255.

00:05:50 ◼   ► I guess this is a follow-up, I'll just mention it.

00:05:52 ◼   ► We did this thing called the Summer Superhero Spectacular where, for Comic-Con, because

00:05:56 ◼   ► last week was Comic-Con, we're going to talk about that later.

00:05:59 ◼   ► days of Comic-Con, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And we had the stupid idea to do a

00:06:04 ◼   ► superhero tournament with four region 64, not teams, 64 heroes, and have completely

00:06:10 ◼   ► arbitrary judgments about who the, you know, which hero was going to move forward, who

00:06:13 ◼   ► the more awesome hero was. And I had no idea, and it went for like two and a half hours.

00:06:19 ◼   ► And I had no idea how we were going to release it when we recorded it. And I thought, you

00:06:22 ◼   ► know, Comic-Con's coming up. What about releasing one of those four regions every day for the

00:06:29 ◼   ► run of Comic-Con. So we did that, ABCD. And the story is that halfway through, I've got

00:06:40 ◼   ► the retina iMac on an arm, and over time, if I'm not careful, the power cord gets more

00:06:48 ◼   ► taut as I kind of move the arm up and down and tilt it and stuff like that. It keeps

00:06:55 ◼   ► sliding down the back of the desk. So when we were about halfway done, I was—we'd

00:06:59 ◼   ► been going for a while—I decided to reposition my iMac, and the power cord popped out the

00:07:03 ◼   ► back. So one, I lost my recording, and we weren't streaming it live, so I had no backup.

00:07:08 ◼   ► So the first two episodes are a Skype track from someone else, of me, because my microphone

00:07:13 ◼   ► track wasn't recorded. So that was bad. I didn't notice that, by the way. The Skype

00:07:17 ◼   ► track dropped. The Skype connection dropped entirely. So I have—some of the people on—were

00:07:24 ◼   ► using Skype, but some of them just had a recording going in the background. And so I ended up

00:07:28 ◼   ► with, once we pieced everything together, we got back on the call, we did the other

00:07:31 ◼   ► two regions, we finished this three-hour-long marathon session. When I put the thing in

00:07:37 ◼   ► Logic to edit it, there is all of this sound from when people's call had dropped, of them

00:07:44 ◼   ► going "Oh geez, the call dropped, stupid Skype," you know, they say things. And then as the

00:07:48 ◼   ► call picks back up, then everybody kind of comes back. And we had just talked about,

00:07:56 ◼   ► it's a long story, but we, you know, we talked about a character named Starman, and they

00:08:01 ◼   ► had begun to sing Starman by David Bowie. And so when, when the call dropped, Steve

00:08:08 ◼   ► Lutz and Phil Michaels just sort of kept singing David Bowie. And as they came back together,

00:08:13 ◼   ► it sort of turned into a duet. And so that's at the end of Episode B. But it was literally

00:08:17 ◼   ► we were just, the reason it happened is that we, people were killing time because everything

00:08:21 ◼   ► was ruined by my uh-

00:08:22 ◼   ► Oh that's how that happened. I thought they were singing together.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Well they, they, they were, so they were singing, they were singing together and then they were

00:08:30 ◼   ► singing separately and then they were singing together again when the call came back. So,

00:08:34 ◼   ► so he sort of, the call dropped and I cut some stuff out in the middle but the call

00:08:39 ◼   ► dropped and then Steve just sort of started singing on his own as the call came back and

00:08:43 ◼   ► And then at some point, Phil rejoined, heard Steve singing, and then he began to sing.

00:08:48 ◼   ► It made me laugh.

00:08:49 ◼   ► Every time I hear it, it makes me laugh.

00:08:51 ◼   ► But anyway, that was why I was looking up Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars,

00:08:55 ◼   ► because I only vaguely--I never owned that album, and I only vaguely know those songs,

00:08:59 ◼   ► and that was a great use of Apple Music, actually, once I picked which edition I wanted.

00:09:04 ◼   ► And so, yeah.

00:09:06 ◼   ► So there's a little follow-out, a little podcast story, and a little Apple Music all rolled

00:09:11 ◼   ► together in one. Okay, so Elton John's Rocket Hour, I wanted to just let people know that

00:09:16 ◼   ► I listened and loved it. Yeah, that was good. That happened right after our show last week,

00:09:25 ◼   ► right? Yeah, I caught the rebroadcast on Tuesday. Right, and I heard it Monday night when you

00:09:30 ◼   ► were sleeping while we were driving back from LA. And it gave me everything that I thought

00:09:37 ◼   ► it was going to and everything I wanted. It highlighted Elton's varied music tastes.

00:09:43 ◼   ► Also, it shared some great stories as well. And now I have a calendar entry for 2 p.m.

00:09:49 ◼   ► every Tuesday to remind me to listen in.

00:09:53 ◼   ► Yeah, that's good. I mean, I think I've heard a bunch of podcasts talking about, like, I

00:09:58 ◼   ► was listening to ATP talk about the tyranny of radio and all that, which I kind of agree

00:10:02 ◼   ► but I was really happy how we described it last week, that this is, you know, if the

00:10:11 ◼   ► point of Beats 1 is not just to play some music, right, it's supposed to have like,

00:10:15 ◼   ► these are like shows, they're like entertainment shows, they're about the personalities involved,

00:10:19 ◼   ► and if you're listening just to hear pristine, like, just a song, and then another song,

00:10:23 ◼   ► and then maybe a voice comes in and says, "That was the name of that song," that's not

00:10:28 ◼   ► the point. You know, and that's what radio used to be, and I think that's not the point

00:10:31 ◼   ► to Beats 1. So having Elton John do that. I followed Beats 1 on Twitter now and I was

00:10:38 ◼   ► um, Lauren was working an evening shift and I was done editing or recording a podcast,

00:10:45 ◼   ► something like that, and I saw this tweet about a new show starting on on Beats 1. It

00:10:49 ◼   ► was uh, it was Ellie Goulding, the pop star, and I started playing that and while I was

00:10:55 ◼   ► making dinner and that was really a lot of fun. I mean she's a pop star but she was playing

00:10:59 ◼   ► like electronica in one show and then the show I listened to it like got into

00:11:03 ◼   ► alternative and then heavy metal after a while and you know that that I didn't

00:11:08 ◼   ► like everything that I heard but it was just a lot of fun to do that and I

00:11:11 ◼   ► listened while I was making dinner and and I think that that's the interesting

00:11:15 ◼   ► thing about about beats one and then you can go back and there's a playlist so I

00:11:18 ◼   ► was able to find the songs that I really liked and add those and listen and

00:11:22 ◼   ► explore those artists yeah you can just search their names they come up as a

00:11:25 ◼   ► curator and you can find the playlists attached. Yeah, yeah, that was a lot of it

00:11:30 ◼   ► was a lot of fun and and the the the rock show got harder as it went and I

00:11:36 ◼   ► sort of verged out of what I liked after a while but there were some tracks or

00:11:40 ◼   ► especially early on that I really liked and now I'm going back and listening to

00:11:43 ◼   ► her playlist of her previous show but I'll check that out and I love that's

00:11:46 ◼   ► actually one of the things I really like the St. Vincent's mixtape delivery is the

00:11:49 ◼   ► same thing finding these people who are not just musicians but are are people

00:11:53 ◼   ► who love music and having them present music that they like to you in, you know, in an

00:11:59 ◼   ► hour a week. It's not, it's just a slice of their, their, you know, worldview of music.

00:12:05 ◼   ► These people who are, whether it's Elton John or it's somebody like St. Vincent or Ellie

00:12:08 ◼   ► Goulding, that's really interesting. And again, it is, you know, it's not something that I

00:12:13 ◼   ► would listen to just in the background because I don't, I don't listen to music that way.

00:12:18 ◼   ► But when I'm in a place where I kind of want to listen to something, you know, or I want

00:12:21 ◼   ► to make time to listen to something that I think is going to be an interesting journey

00:12:25 ◼   ► that I'm paying attention to, then that really works for me.

00:12:32 ◼   ► So you had some follow out for ATP?

00:12:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I just wanted to mention, I mean it's funny that we follow out to ATP because they

00:12:39 ◼   ► have many more listeners than we do.

00:12:42 ◼   ► Well, I do.

00:12:44 ◼   ► You know.

00:12:45 ◼   ► And I love that podcast and listen to it every week.

00:12:48 ◼   ► And I had to listen, I got behind, they lapped me.

00:12:51 ◼   ► I had to listen to two ATPs,

00:12:52 ◼   ► but I was doing a lot of housework this weekend,

00:12:54 ◼   ► so it was not a problem.

00:12:55 ◼   ► I was back to listening to John Syracuse

00:12:57 ◼   ► while mowing my lawn,

00:12:58 ◼   ► like in the classic hypercritical days,

00:13:00 ◼   ► but with bonus Casey and Marco.

00:13:02 ◼   ► It was just, I wanted to mention it

00:13:04 ◼   ► because we talked about the,

00:13:06 ◼   ► Safari's the new IE thing last week,

00:13:08 ◼   ► and in ATP 125, they talked about it.

00:13:11 ◼   ► I found, it was one of those things where they,

00:13:14 ◼   ► it was like a reconcilable differences, so to speak,

00:13:19 ◼   ► between Marco and John where, you know,

00:13:22 ◼   ► Marco would say one thing and John would say another thing

00:13:24 ◼   ► and I agreed with both of them.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And I'm not sure they felt like they were agreeing

00:13:27 ◼   ► or disagreeing.

00:13:28 ◼   ► I did have one note, John talked for a while

00:13:32 ◼   ► about how like the open web is good

00:13:33 ◼   ► and it's in everybody's best interest

00:13:37 ◼   ► that the open web continue to grow.

00:13:38 ◼   ► And I agree with that, but at the same time,

00:13:41 ◼   ► I had a moment of slight disagreement with Mr. Syracuse

00:13:47 ◼   ► because I feel like what got unsaid there was this idea

00:13:51 ◼   ► that the dream of creating mobile apps

00:13:54 ◼   ► using web technologies,

00:13:56 ◼   ► so that if you can't or won't build native apps,

00:14:00 ◼   ► but you can still be on Android and iOS,

00:14:02 ◼   ► that's a nice dream.

00:14:03 ◼   ► And I can see why you would say,

00:14:05 ◼   ► well, that's good that there's something

00:14:07 ◼   ► that not everybody controls

00:14:08 ◼   ► that people can use to build these things.

00:14:10 ◼   ► But for me, I just get flashbacks to the Java era

00:14:13 ◼   ► where people told us,

00:14:15 ◼   ► you're gonna be able to write once

00:14:16 ◼   ► and run it everywhere.

00:14:17 ◼   ► And the fact was that stuff was really bad.

00:14:20 ◼   ► It was mediocre at best.

00:14:21 ◼   ► And it was not tied to a particular platform

00:14:24 ◼   ► and that was actually bad because when stuff isn't tied

00:14:27 ◼   ► to a particular platform, it's generic.

00:14:29 ◼   ► It doesn't feel like your native stuff.

00:14:31 ◼   ► And I'm not sure that that, you know, yes,

00:14:34 ◼   ► an open web is good for users,

00:14:36 ◼   ► but if it leads in that direction, then,

00:14:40 ◼   ► if it leads in that direction,

00:14:43 ◼   ► I'm not sure it leads to some place

00:14:45 ◼   ► that creates products that are good for the user experience.

00:14:49 ◼   ► And I'm not sure, you know, I get John's point

00:14:53 ◼   ► and I agree with it that the last thing you want

00:14:56 ◼   ► is everything to be completely controlled

00:14:58 ◼   ► by platform vendors and that there's no other way

00:15:03 ◼   ► into these devices other than by building native apps.

00:15:07 ◼   ► But I, you know, I think that people are not talking enough

00:15:11 ◼   ► when they talk about this issue about the fact

00:15:13 ◼   ► that one size fits all multi-platform apps,

00:15:16 ◼   ► even if we believe Lauren Briktor that, you know,

00:15:18 ◼   ► you can build something that's gonna be super awesome,

00:15:22 ◼   ► 60 frames per second response, you know,

00:15:24 ◼   ► it's not gonna be slow, it's gonna be able to do

00:15:28 ◼   ► what native apps do in that way.

00:15:30 ◼   ► I still am not convinced that they aren't gonna look weird

00:15:32 ◼   ► and be weird and also lag behind technologically

00:15:37 ◼   ► because they'll all be based on something

00:15:40 ◼   ► that comes through a standard spotty,

00:15:41 ◼   ► whereas Apple can hold a WWDC and say,

00:15:44 ◼   ► here's some new APIs, ships in the fall,

00:15:46 ◼   ► and the apps will take advantage of it.

00:15:48 ◼   ► They can't do that with the web technologies.

00:15:49 ◼   ► So anyway, but otherwise,

00:15:52 ◼   ► I thought it was a really great discussion.

00:15:54 ◼   ► Marco was definitely on the same wavelength

00:15:57 ◼   ► that I am on this, but I thought John's points

00:15:59 ◼   ► were really great as a web developer.

00:16:02 ◼   ► And Casey's nice too,

00:16:03 ◼   ► but he didn't have as much to say on that episode.

00:16:06 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:16:07 ◼   ► - And just before we jump into our topics today,

00:16:10 ◼   ► there was just one thing that I wanted to bring up.

00:16:13 ◼   ► Satoru Iwata, who was the CEO of Nintendo of America and the president of Nintendo,

00:16:20 ◼   ► passed away last night.

00:16:22 ◼   ► And that is an incredible loss to technology and video gaming.

00:16:27 ◼   ► Iwata was an incredible man and he did amazing things.

00:16:31 ◼   ► The people that are interested in video games to the level that I am and some other people on Relay are,

00:16:37 ◼   ► this is a lot akin to Steve Jobs. They had they died around the

00:16:43 ◼   ► same sort of age. Iwata was 55 and he was someone who was a real visionary.

00:16:49 ◼   ► Nintendo might not be doing as well right now but potentially they're on the

00:16:54 ◼   ► upswing, they're making some big changes in their company. But Iwata's time at

00:16:58 ◼   ► Nintendo saw both the Nintendo DS and the Wii U, some of the biggest selling

00:17:05 ◼   ► games consoles of all time during his time was responsible for both of them

00:17:09 ◼   ► and he was a man who had incredible technical achievements as well he was a

00:17:13 ◼   ► developer and even as a CEO was contributing code and CEO and president

00:17:19 ◼   ► was amazing sorry the Wii not the I said the Wii U but I meant to say the Wii the

00:17:25 ◼   ► Wii yeah marketing problems he was contributing code as a president and

00:17:29 ◼   ► there's just a bunch of great stories on the internet right now so I'll include a

00:17:34 ◼   ► a couple of links in the show notes if you want to read a bit more, find out a

00:17:37 ◼   ► bit more about him, but I just wanted to mention it today because I think that it

00:17:41 ◼   ► is an incredibly important story in technology and I'll go amiss about

00:17:46 ◼   ► mentioning it. Yeah, glad you mentioned it. I imagine you'll talk

00:17:52 ◼   ► more about that maybe on another program later this week. Yeah, we'll be

00:17:56 ◼   ► talking about it on virtual and I expect that the Isometric gang will be

00:18:00 ◼   ► discussing it as well. I would imagine. So a couple of shows there on Relay you can

00:18:04 ◼   ► go to and our shows this week I'm sure will be completely dedicated to

00:18:11 ◼   ► Iwata and his life. It's very sad, very sad. So we should take a break. Let's

00:18:18 ◼   ► thank our first sponsor this week and then we can start talking about some

00:18:22 ◼   ► public beta related issues that we want to talk about today and good stuff too.

00:18:26 ◼   ► I'm thrilled to welcome back the New Mexico Tea Company for sponsoring this week's

00:18:31 ◼   ► episode. We've had them sponsor a couple of weeks ago. The New Mexico Tea Company

00:18:36 ◼   ► has been sourcing fantastic loose leaf tea from all over the world and they can

00:18:40 ◼   ► deliver it to you. They discover and import great teas but they also make

00:18:44 ◼   ► some on their own. They make some great teas themselves as well. They are

00:18:48 ◼   ► focused on making excellent teas available to people all around the world.

00:18:52 ◼   ► They have a great store where they can do this. You can go and buy whatever you

00:18:55 ◼   ► want and I've heard a bunch of you have been trying out some of the teas that we

00:18:58 ◼   ► mentioned I heard from David at the New Mexico Tea Company but what I wanted to

00:19:03 ◼   ► talk to you a little bit today is I really wanted to mention their Tea of the

00:19:06 ◼   ► Month Club and I brought it up last time but this is such a fantastic deal

00:19:10 ◼   ► basically for $19.99 a month you get three different teas and they're gonna

00:19:15 ◼   ► last you around 50 cups and it's a really fantastic thing to try out

00:19:19 ◼   ► because you'll be receiving not only teas that are kind of like that you will

00:19:24 ◼   ► be your normal type of thing you know you can choose if you want to receive

00:19:27 ◼   ► pure tea or herbal tea but you're also going to get some interesting new stuff to try.

00:19:32 ◼   ► So you know everyone can go to a store and buy the things that they're used to but you

00:19:36 ◼   ► want to find out new stuff right you want to get new tastes and things like that and

00:19:39 ◼   ► this is what the tea of the month club at the New Mexico Tea Company can give you.

00:19:43 ◼   ► You'll be subscribing and you'll have excellent tea at home always but you'll be also broadening

00:19:49 ◼   ► your horizons trying some new high grade specialty teas and really kind of going out there and

00:19:54 ◼   ► trying some new stuff. So you know I mentioned that the New Mexico Tea Company

00:19:57 ◼   ► had sent me a box of stuff to try out and there was stuff in there that I was

00:20:01 ◼   ► familiar with but now my favorite teas that they have in this box is stuff that

00:20:06 ◼   ► I never would have tried on my own. Like huh that so it's like you know that

00:20:11 ◼   ► they're like more maybe like fruity there's this one I'm trying to find the

00:20:15 ◼   ► name of it now. Jason why don't you talk about it and then I'll grab the tea I've

00:20:18 ◼   ► been trying this week and I can explain to people what I like about it.

00:20:21 ◼   ► Alright, well today I had for the first time the Royal Yunnan, which is a rich and multi-Chinese

00:20:29 ◼   ► organic black tea.

00:20:31 ◼   ► I put some milk in it because the multi teas I like with milk.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And it was really nice.

00:20:38 ◼   ► And this goes with the, again, I've had the Earl Grey, I've had the Canadian breakfast

00:20:43 ◼   ► and the English breakfast, and we had their green tea, I've had one of their fruity teas

00:20:49 ◼   ► that actually is a summer tea that they recommend you make iced tea with, so I did that. Lots

00:20:54 ◼   ► of different--the variety is amazing, and I like how the way they've set up the Tea

00:20:59 ◼   ► of the Month Club is--the idea is you drink a cup of tea a day and two on the weekends,

00:21:07 ◼   ► and that is how much tea you get every month from them. And I like the idea of having some

00:21:13 ◼   ► surprises, some surprise and delight in the box is a smart idea too.

00:21:17 ◼   ► So there's two teas that I've been trying and enjoying and these are things I never

00:21:20 ◼   ► would have tried on my own. One is called Lucky Summer which is Ruribos.

00:21:25 ◼   ► That's the one that I made iced tea out of.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Oh really? Yeah I love it. I drink it hot as well. How do you say this? Ruribos? I don't

00:21:33 ◼   ► know.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I don't even know.

00:21:35 ◼   ► It has peach, it has peach different types of fruit, lemongrass, spearmint and peppermint

00:21:41 ◼   ► which is a really weird mix when you put it on paper but tastes incredible. And Pondicherry

00:21:45 ◼   ► which is cherry berries, rose hips, hibiscus, and some other natural flavorings as well.

00:21:51 ◼   ► And these are things that I never would have tried on my own.

00:21:53 ◼   ► So that one I can tell you is hibiscus.

00:21:55 ◼   ► I like saying it like that. Someone said it to me that way before and I can't stop saying it.

00:22:00 ◼   ► I think it was in Starbucks because they were doing this like hibiscus thing before and the

00:22:05 ◼   ► lady called it hibiscus and it's just become like a joke between me and a friend and now I can't

00:22:10 ◼   ► help but say it. It is not Greek.

00:22:14 ◼   ► And I think it's rebus.

00:22:16 ◼   ► Rebus, rebus, something like that.

00:22:19 ◼   ► - Emboss.

00:22:20 ◼   ► - It's pronounced hibiscus, Myke.

00:22:22 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

00:22:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, so like, you know, this is just an example

00:22:25 ◼   ► of some of the incredible stuff that you can get, you know,

00:22:27 ◼   ► 'cause you're gonna get these really interesting

00:22:29 ◼   ► and new things to try out,

00:22:31 ◼   ► and you're never gonna know the type of thing

00:22:32 ◼   ► that you're gonna fall in love with.

00:22:34 ◼   ► And you always get memberships, always get free shipping,

00:22:36 ◼   ► and you can cancel them at any time, but that's great, right?

00:22:39 ◼   ► It's 20 bucks a month, basically,

00:22:41 ◼   ► and you can get free shipping.

00:22:43 ◼   ► If you have two people in the household you can double the T for $29.99 so you get a saving

00:22:47 ◼   ► on that too.

00:22:48 ◼   ► If you use the code upgrade at checkout you'll get 25% off your first three months of your

00:22:53 ◼   ► tier the month club bringing the price down to $14.99 but if you want to just buy some

00:22:58 ◼   ► stuff in the store you'll also get free shipping with that too but remember with the tier the

00:23:03 ◼   ► month club you always get free shipping.

00:23:05 ◼   ► They really have a great variety of teas, so go and check them out at the NMT, so NMTEACO.com,

00:23:13 ◼   ► so NMTEACO.com/upgrade, and I'm sure that you're going to find something that you like.

00:23:20 ◼   ► Go support us by supporting them.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Go check out the New Mexico Tea Company.

00:23:24 ◼   ► Thanks so much.

00:23:25 ◼   ► Yay, tea!

00:23:26 ◼   ► Right, so, public beta time, huh?

00:23:30 ◼   ► Yeah, 'tis the season for public betas.

00:23:34 ◼   ► So many public betas. Last week, we got the El Capitan public beta and the iOS 9 public

00:23:41 ◼   ► beta, which came right, like I think a day or two after the presumably the same build

00:23:46 ◼   ► more or less got ceded to developers. So now for the first time, people with iOS devices

00:23:53 ◼   ► can publicly, you know, can beta test just by signing up for the public beta, can use

00:23:59 ◼   ► a beta of the next version of iOS. Last year we did this for Mac OS, but it wasn't until

00:24:05 ◼   ► I think early this year that iOS public beta started. So the world can be as dangerous

00:24:12 ◼   ► as you want it to be.

00:24:15 ◼   ► And you've been trying them out, right?

00:24:18 ◼   ► Yeah, so I've got iOS 9 on an iPad Air 2 that I got specifically for iOS 9 testing, and

00:24:27 ◼   ► then I did put the public beta on my iPhone,

00:24:30 ◼   ► which I'm a little hesitant to do,

00:24:33 ◼   ► and I would not do it under normal circumstances,

00:24:36 ◼   ► but I've got to write about this stuff,

00:24:38 ◼   ► so I've got to live with it.

00:24:39 ◼   ► And I have a laptop here with El Capitan on it,

00:24:43 ◼   ► and I haven't put it on my Mac yet,

00:24:45 ◼   ► although I probably will do that this week

00:24:47 ◼   ► just because I think I've got to live with it,

00:24:50 ◼   ► even though it's gonna, you know,

00:24:51 ◼   ► this is, the problem with this is like,

00:24:53 ◼   ► This is my production Mac here.

00:24:57 ◼   ► I record podcasts, I edit podcasts on it, and I write on it.

00:25:01 ◼   ► So I think I'm just gonna kinda cross my fingers

00:25:03 ◼   ► and know that I've got my laptop, my MacBook Air.

00:25:06 ◼   ► If there's something that I just can't do

00:25:09 ◼   ► on this current public beta build,

00:25:11 ◼   ► I'll have to switch to the laptop to do that part

00:25:14 ◼   ► and then come back.

00:25:15 ◼   ► But that's because I do this for a living, right?

00:25:19 ◼   ► I write about this and talk about this stuff,

00:25:21 ◼   ► so I have to use it.

00:25:22 ◼   ► I don't think I would recommend that anybody, especially iOS,

00:25:26 ◼   ► like don't put this on your phone unless you really, really, really, really

00:25:30 ◼   ► are prepared for causing pain because you're going to get weird bugs and things crashing and

00:25:35 ◼   ► that's just how it is. Like developers can't even release their apps if they're built against iOS 9

00:25:42 ◼   ► to the App Store or put on TestFlight if you're a beta tester for some apps.

00:25:47 ◼   ► I believe they can't even do that yet.

00:25:49 ◼   ► So what ends up happening is people write app reviews

00:25:54 ◼   ► and say this app sucks because it doesn't work right

00:25:56 ◼   ► on iOS 9 public beta, which is really about as unfair

00:26:00 ◼   ► as it gets because in many cases they can't,

00:26:03 ◼   ► there are things they can't do.

00:26:05 ◼   ► Not only that, but of course it's not fair to ask developers

00:26:09 ◼   ► to have their apps be functional on beta software.

00:26:14 ◼   ► - 'Cause it can't be in some instances.

00:26:15 ◼   ► I mean there are some crashes I guess that people can fix but some stuff is gonna break

00:26:20 ◼   ► and you might not be able to fix it and I don't even know if you can submit.

00:26:24 ◼   ► I mean you can submit some fixes I think but it can get a bit sort of sketchy as to what

00:26:30 ◼   ► you can kind of fix when on the previous version.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Federico wrote a nice little piece about this.

00:26:35 ◼   ► He kind of like, it broke down the problems and what Apple tries to do but then make some

00:26:40 ◼   ► suggestions for what Apple should do.

00:26:43 ◼   ► If you're a beta tester and you want to be helpful, you could contact the developer of

00:26:49 ◼   ► your favorite app that doesn't work quite right in iOS 9 and say, "Hey, I'm using the

00:26:54 ◼   ► iOS 9 public beta.

00:26:57 ◼   ► You probably are aware that your app doesn't work, you know, doesn't do this, doesn't work

00:27:02 ◼   ► right in this way.

00:27:04 ◼   ► If you are looking for people to test your app, I would be happy to do that because I

00:27:09 ◼   ► love your app and I'm on the public beta."

00:27:11 ◼   ► They can say no.

00:27:12 ◼   ► They may say no.

00:27:13 ◼   ► will say no, but you could do that if you wanted to.

00:27:15 ◼   ► That wouldn't be unreasonable.

00:27:16 ◼   ► They might like another tester and they might not,

00:27:20 ◼   ► but you also have to be prepared to the fact

00:27:21 ◼   ► that things are not gonna work until another build

00:27:24 ◼   ► of iOS 9 or until iOS 9 comes out.

00:27:27 ◼   ► And this is why I think you should really hesitate

00:27:30 ◼   ► before installing a public data,

00:27:31 ◼   ► especially of iOS 9 on your iPhone

00:27:33 ◼   ► because your iPhone is so important to you.

00:27:38 ◼   ► All of our iPhones, super important to us.

00:27:41 ◼   ► And, you know, like my iPad is important to me,

00:27:46 ◼   ► but it's less like crucial

00:27:50 ◼   ► because I'm usually using it in the house

00:27:52 ◼   ► and there are other devices around.

00:27:53 ◼   ► My iPhone, I'm using it out and about,

00:27:55 ◼   ► and if it breaks, I just am out of luck, which is not fun.

00:28:00 ◼   ► And my Mac, I feel like the Mac,

00:28:01 ◼   ► you can work around problems because it's a Mac

00:28:04 ◼   ► and there's many more ways to do things on a Mac

00:28:08 ◼   ► than there is on an iOS device.

00:28:09 ◼   ► So I just go in with a lot of caution, especially iOS.

00:28:13 ◼   ► iOS betas are weird and the apps will crash

00:28:18 ◼   ► and app developers can't really fix

00:28:19 ◼   ► a lot of those problems right now.

00:28:21 ◼   ► And just warning, warning sign, flashing warning sign.

00:28:25 ◼   ► - There was something that I wanted to mention

00:28:28 ◼   ► about the app review part,

00:28:33 ◼   ► like people leaving app reviews.

00:28:35 ◼   ► 'Cause when I see people talking about this on Twitter

00:28:38 ◼   ► whatever. You always see people that kind of lash out and be like,

00:28:41 ◼   ► "Oh that person's an idiot. Those people shouldn't know how to use computers." That

00:28:45 ◼   ► kind of thing. And I think that that's unfair because I think that the thing

00:28:50 ◼   ► about this is we all install the betas because we're interested in what's

00:28:54 ◼   ► coming next, right? But there are lots of nerdy people out there who feel exactly

00:28:58 ◼   ► the same, right? They're not necessarily as in tune with the

00:29:03 ◼   ► independent developer community. Those two Venn diagrams don't

00:29:08 ◼   ► completely overlap. I think there are people that are nerdy who like

00:29:12 ◼   ► gadgets and tinkering and stuff. They read Apple websites and

00:29:15 ◼   ► stuff but they don't follow indie app developers on Twitter. So they're not

00:29:20 ◼   ► necessarily... I don't think that people necessarily know the effect that

00:29:26 ◼   ► this stuff can happen or know that this isn't a good way to submit feedback or

00:29:30 ◼   ► whatever or even know that apps should or shouldn't be updated to to fix these

00:29:35 ◼   ► problems right like I don't know if people necessarily know that like an app

00:29:39 ◼   ► developer can't update their app for iOS 9 stuff so I find it a bit strange when

00:29:46 ◼   ► people like lash out against these people I don't think it's their problem

00:29:50 ◼   ► or their fault like because as well like you know you should read the things that

00:29:54 ◼   ► it says on Apple's website who does I didn't know it said anything about it on

00:29:58 ◼   ► Apple's website when I downloaded the El Capitan public beta. I didn't read it.

00:30:01 ◼   ► I just downloaded it, right? Because I know best. So I think that, I think really

00:30:06 ◼   ► this is Apple's problem to solve, like, and not just to put some a line in some

00:30:12 ◼   ► documentation. If it is really a problem then they should look into it and it

00:30:16 ◼   ► probably is an issue because I expect that it is affecting some developers, you

00:30:20 ◼   ► know, might have like perfect five-star ratings and then they get some one-star

00:30:24 ◼   ► ratings because of this and then you kind of look at somebody's overall

00:30:28 ◼   ► development stuff and you see the average start to go down and you might

00:30:30 ◼   ► question whether you want to buy the app. So it probably does make an effect but

00:30:34 ◼   ► personally I think that this is something that Apple need to do more

00:30:38 ◼   ► about and I actually don't think that it's in education because I don't think

00:30:41 ◼   ► you can do that. I think they need to they need to prevent people from doing

00:30:46 ◼   ► this and in my own personal opinion on this I know why some people don't like

00:30:51 ◼   ► this idea but I think that anybody that signs up for the beta should have

00:30:57 ◼   ► reviews turned off at their Apple ID. Yeah or only be visible for

00:31:01 ◼   ► people running the public beta. Yeah. Like in a sandbox or something. I

00:31:05 ◼   ► agree with you. I mean put yourself in the mind of a developer here. You are

00:31:09 ◼   ► you are probably, let's say you're updating your app for iOS 9, you are

00:31:13 ◼   ► kicking hard for the release of iOS 9 in the fall. That is what you're targeting.

00:31:19 ◼   ► And so the public beta comes out and you hear from people who are like, "Oh, your current

00:31:25 ◼   ► version doesn't work on the public beta."

00:31:27 ◼   ► And you're like, "Okay, well, I'm working on a new version.

00:31:29 ◼   ► I can't release it to the App Store right now."

00:31:34 ◼   ► And what a terrible position to be put in as a developer of trying to fix bugs for the

00:31:40 ◼   ► public beta users instead of just working on the big picture of getting that final version

00:31:47 ◼   ► done for the final version of iOS 9.

00:31:49 ◼   ► And that's what developers, some developers are in that position right now, where they're

00:31:52 ◼   ► like, "Do I fix this so that it runs for the people on..."

00:31:56 ◼   ► And it's for themselves too, right?

00:31:57 ◼   ► Because they're probably running development versions of iOS 9 as well.

00:32:02 ◼   ► But you know, priorities here, I think their priority should be the finish line, not this,

00:32:09 ◼   ► you know, the starting of the public beta.

00:32:12 ◼   ► That's dumb.

00:32:14 ◼   ► So yeah, it's too bad, because you know, you need to know what the rules are for being

00:32:19 ◼   ► a beta tester and complaining that there are bugs and that third-party apps don't always

00:32:24 ◼   ► work right. You know, you're there. The purpose of the public beta is for people to give feedback

00:32:30 ◼   ► to Apple and third-party developers about things that aren't working right and it's

00:32:36 ◼   ► not just to make people who are really excited about living in the future a chance to live

00:32:41 ◼   ► in the future for a couple of months. So I also encourage you if you do use any of these

00:32:45 ◼   ► public betas, use the feedback assistant and give Apple feedback because they are actually

00:32:49 ◼   ► listening and learning and we saw last summer some changes made in Yosemite based on feedback.

00:33:00 ◼   ► So they are totally listening, I can tell you that. They're not just listening to anonymous

00:33:04 ◼   ► crash data which you can say to provide to Apple where they can count what the crashes

00:33:08 ◼   ► are and things like that, but they're listening to feedback. They listen to the radar bug

00:33:12 ◼   ► reporter feedback from developers, but they listen to the feedback assistance stuff from

00:33:16 ◼   ► users as well. And so if you're gonna go down this path, definitely

00:33:21 ◼   ► give feedback about things you find that don't work right. But

00:33:24 ◼   ► writing, you know, not writing nasty app reviews. Instead give feedback in the

00:33:28 ◼   ► feedback assistant so that

00:33:29 ◼   ► Apple can fix the problems for the general public release which doesn't

00:33:33 ◼   ► come until

00:33:34 ◼   ► whatever, September probably. So I don't have an awful lot to say about

00:33:39 ◼   ► El Capitan. I put it on my MacBook Pro a couple days ago,

00:33:43 ◼   ► which is not the machine that I use to record.

00:33:46 ◼   ► I wouldn't do that.

00:33:47 ◼   ► - Right, smart.

00:33:48 ◼   ► - But it's the machine that I use every day,

00:33:50 ◼   ► but I was confident putting it on there,

00:33:51 ◼   ► 'cause it was just like, you know,

00:33:53 ◼   ► what's the worst that could happen?

00:33:55 ◼   ► But I have another Mac, like if everything exploded,

00:33:58 ◼   ► I could start over again.

00:33:59 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:34:01 ◼   ► - And I've been pretty happy with it.

00:34:03 ◼   ► I've, you know, I very much like looking at San Francisco

00:34:07 ◼   ► on this machine, as well as I like looking at it

00:34:11 ◼   ► on my iPad as well.

00:34:12 ◼   ► the new system font.

00:34:13 ◼   ► - The new system font.

00:34:15 ◼   ► I think it's very good looking,

00:34:16 ◼   ► and I wished that more apps that I had

00:34:20 ◼   ► used the system font as their font choice, right?

00:34:23 ◼   ► So they would update.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Some of my apps do.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Like, I think, yeah, OmniFocus, I think, yeah,

00:34:30 ◼   ► it's using San Francisco,

00:34:31 ◼   ► but like, you know, Tweetbot isn't.

00:34:34 ◼   ► Like, I would like to see more San Francisco, you know?

00:34:36 ◼   ► I think it's a very, very nice font.

00:34:38 ◼   ► I like looking at it.

00:34:39 ◼   ► Nice, if I could choose it or something.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Anyway, so that's cool.

00:34:45 ◼   ► I like the split screen stuff.

00:34:47 ◼   ► I use full screen a lot.

00:34:49 ◼   ► I have my web browser in full screen.

00:34:51 ◼   ► It's the way that I like to work.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And today I was doing some show follow up and prep

00:34:57 ◼   ► whilst using two browser windows side by side in full screen

00:35:00 ◼   ► and I really like that.

00:35:02 ◼   ► That's a great way for me to work

00:35:03 ◼   ► rather than going from tab to tab

00:35:05 ◼   ► or having to swipe from screen to screen

00:35:07 ◼   ► which is what I usually have to do.

00:35:08 ◼   ► So having the two browser windows side by side

00:35:12 ◼   ► is great and yes I know I could just put them on a desktop and resize them but

00:35:17 ◼   ► it's not doesn't work for me that way I like doing it in full screen I like that

00:35:21 ◼   ► app that snaps in immediately side by side and that you

00:35:26 ◼   ► know the websites take it just all works and I don't have to worry about it and

00:35:30 ◼   ► I'm finding mission control and spaces to be way more responsive and I like the

00:35:36 ◼   ► way that you can just drag things from desktop to desktop really easily like

00:35:41 ◼   ► from you can drag it from the desktop onto a full screen window then that

00:35:45 ◼   ► makes it a like a split screen window and you can drag it away again it's

00:35:50 ◼   ► really easy to make something full screen by just dragging it up into the

00:35:53 ◼   ► mission control bar like way like a lot easier than before I really like it I

00:35:58 ◼   ► mean because I am one of the people that uses all those features on a daily basis

00:36:03 ◼   ► I use all the gestures and stuff like that and I found it to be way better the

00:36:07 ◼   ► The big mouse thing is annoying me.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Wow.

00:36:11 ◼   ► Can you turn it off?

00:36:12 ◼   ► I haven't tried.

00:36:13 ◼   ► I'm trying to just live with it to see if I get used to looking for it, but at the moment

00:36:17 ◼   ► the only time I ever see it is by accident.

00:36:20 ◼   ► So I just move my mouse and it goes "huh?"

00:36:22 ◼   ► I'm like "what are you doing?"

00:36:24 ◼   ► I haven't seen it currently, I'm looking in the mouse settings and it isn't there.

00:36:28 ◼   ► I'm sure you can turn it off.

00:36:30 ◼   ► But I want to leave it on for a bit to see if I get used to shaking my mouse to find

00:36:34 ◼   ► it.

00:36:35 ◼   ► I'm only using a 13-inch display.

00:36:37 ◼   ► Like, it's not--

00:36:38 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:38 ◼   ► I'm not having a hilariously difficult time

00:36:40 ◼   ► trying to find my mouse at the best of times.

00:36:43 ◼   ► I actually do have to find the cursor a lot on the iMac.

00:36:46 ◼   ► So not bragging or anything, but it's a really big screen.

00:36:48 ◼   ► So one thing--

00:36:50 ◼   ► I've got nothing to compensate for, Jason.

00:36:52 ◼   ► One thing I wanted to mention is something I found when I was--

00:36:56 ◼   ► and I wrote up a thing on six colors

00:36:59 ◼   ► and another thing on Macworld about the El Capitan public

00:37:01 ◼   ► beta.

00:37:03 ◼   ► I wrote a couple thousand words on Macworld about it.

00:37:05 ◼   ► The problem that what I'm finding, and again, it's beta,

00:37:09 ◼   ► so there's time, is apps have been written

00:37:13 ◼   ► for full screen mode, because up to now,

00:37:17 ◼   ► full screen mode meant that app was the only thing

00:37:20 ◼   ► that was there, right?

00:37:20 ◼   ► It was active, it was the only app you could see.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Now, what split screen mode is,

00:37:26 ◼   ► is basically a variation on full screen mode.

00:37:29 ◼   ► It's essentially full screen mode with two apps

00:37:31 ◼   ► sharing the screen.

00:37:32 ◼   ► And it's gonna be interesting to see how app developers,

00:37:37 ◼   ► including Apple, have to revise

00:37:40 ◼   ► how they approach full screen mode.

00:37:43 ◼   ► And it's also, I think maybe some questions I have

00:37:45 ◼   ► for Apple about their approach to full screen mode.

00:37:48 ◼   ► I say this because I was using Preview

00:37:52 ◼   ► to write my story actually,

00:37:53 ◼   ► I was using Preview with a PDF of the Reviewer's Guide

00:37:57 ◼   ► and I think the Notes app to take notes.

00:38:02 ◼   ► And so they were side by side in split screen mode.

00:38:08 ◼   ► And I would move over, I would move my cursor over

00:38:11 ◼   ► to the PDF and try to use the finger spread command

00:38:15 ◼   ► to make it bigger and nothing happened.

00:38:20 ◼   ► Now in the regular mode, if you've got preview

00:38:23 ◼   ► in the background and another app in the foreground

00:38:26 ◼   ► and you do that, that's the behavior

00:38:28 ◼   ► is it doesn't do anything 'cause it's not foregrounded.

00:38:31 ◼   ► But in the split screen mode,

00:38:33 ◼   ► I sort of feel like both apps are front most in a way.

00:38:38 ◼   ► And I think the apps think that too,

00:38:40 ◼   ► 'cause the apps think, like preview doesn't change when,

00:38:44 ◼   ► let me back up.

00:38:46 ◼   ► So you've got two apps running side by side

00:38:48 ◼   ► in split screen mode.

00:38:49 ◼   ► This is now for the first time in full screen mode,

00:38:53 ◼   ► one app is foremost, foregrounded, and the other one is not.

00:38:57 ◼   ► And in fact, the one that you've clicked in,

00:39:00 ◼   ► if you move your cursor to the top of the screen,

00:39:02 ◼   ► that's the one that shows in the menu bar.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And if you click on the other one,

00:39:06 ◼   ► then that one shows in the menu bar.

00:39:08 ◼   ► So now there's this concept in full screen mode

00:39:10 ◼   ► of which is the front most app,

00:39:11 ◼   ► and an app that's not front most behaves differently.

00:39:13 ◼   ► And some apps in their full screen mode

00:39:16 ◼   ► don't even show you whether they're front most or not,

00:39:18 ◼   ► because they assume they are.

00:39:20 ◼   ► So like preview looks like preview in split screen mode,

00:39:24 ◼   ► whether it's selected or not,

00:39:26 ◼   ► because what other app could be showing?

00:39:28 ◼   ► Possibly, it's in full screen mode, except now it's not.

00:39:31 ◼   ► Now it's in split screen mode.

00:39:32 ◼   ► And so I have those moments where I think to myself,

00:39:36 ◼   ► something's got to give here.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Either Apple needs to change the behavior

00:39:40 ◼   ► in split screen mode to do something,

00:39:42 ◼   ► maybe even something like what they do in Unix,

00:39:44 ◼   ► where the focus changes when your cursor moves

00:39:47 ◼   ► over the other app.

00:39:49 ◼   ► Like when my cursor moves over preview,

00:39:51 ◼   ► preview acts like it's front most

00:39:53 ◼   ► and I can zoom in and stuff without clicking.

00:39:56 ◼   ► 'Cause right now you have to click

00:39:57 ◼   ► and then you click on it and nothing seems to happen.

00:39:59 ◼   ► But it's come to the front, but you wouldn't know.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And then you can zoom around to your heart's content.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Zoom in, zoom out, whatever.

00:40:08 ◼   ► And then if you start typing,

00:40:11 ◼   ► the notes doesn't type anymore

00:40:14 ◼   ► because you're not in notes anymore, you're in preview,

00:40:17 ◼   ► but you can't even look at the menu bar

00:40:19 ◼   ► to tell which one's front most

00:40:20 ◼   ► because the menu bar is hidden.

00:40:23 ◼   ► So I feel like, again, and it's a beta.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So the question is, does this stuff get resolved now

00:40:28 ◼   ► or does it not get resolved

00:40:30 ◼   ► and this becomes a flaw in this concept

00:40:33 ◼   ► for when El Capitan launches?

00:40:35 ◼   ► We'll see, we'll see.

00:40:36 ◼   ► But that was one of the first things that struck me

00:40:38 ◼   ► is like these apps don't quite know

00:40:40 ◼   ► whether they're alone or not

00:40:43 ◼   ► and don't signify things that, you know,

00:40:47 ◼   ► it doesn't make sense in full screen mode for you to care

00:40:50 ◼   ► because you're the only app,

00:40:51 ◼   ► but now they're not the only app.

00:40:53 ◼   ► So is Apple gonna revise preview?

00:40:55 ◼   ► Are there gonna be changes to full screen mode?

00:40:58 ◼   ► I don't know yet, but that was the thing that struck me

00:40:59 ◼   ► is that it's a little bit weird right now

00:41:01 ◼   ► that apps don't behave quite right

00:41:03 ◼   ► and the metaphor is a little bit strange,

00:41:05 ◼   ► having two apps with the menu bar hidden

00:41:08 ◼   ► in full screen mode.

00:41:10 ◼   ► - 'Cause like one of the weird things is

00:41:13 ◼   ► - Scrolling is possible in both,

00:41:15 ◼   ► no matter which one is foremost.

00:41:17 ◼   ► So you can scroll up and down,

00:41:19 ◼   ► but you can't pinch to zoom, right?

00:41:21 ◼   ► So it's like, you've got half of it there.

00:41:23 ◼   ► - Different apps have different behaviors

00:41:25 ◼   ► based on whether they're in the foreground

00:41:26 ◼   ► or in the background.

00:41:27 ◼   ► So like preview is a good example

00:41:28 ◼   ► and other apps are like this where you can scroll

00:41:31 ◼   ► in when it's in the background, but you can't zoom.

00:41:34 ◼   ► But that gets weird 'cause then you're in full screen mode

00:41:36 ◼   ► and you're like, okay, well, some things I can do

00:41:39 ◼   ► without clicking on it, but other things I need to click

00:41:41 ◼   ► first and then I can do other things with it.

00:41:43 ◼   ► And with preview, it's even weirder

00:41:46 ◼   ► because you're not clicking to like edit something.

00:41:49 ◼   ► You're just clicking to click on something

00:41:52 ◼   ► that's part of preview so that it comes to the foreground.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Even though it is in the foreground technically, right?

00:41:58 ◼   ► Because, well, not technically,

00:42:00 ◼   ► it visually it's in the foreground

00:42:02 ◼   ► 'cause there's only two apps

00:42:03 ◼   ► and spatially they're both at the top.

00:42:06 ◼   ► But you still have to click on that one

00:42:09 ◼   ► because it's not active

00:42:11 ◼   ► because the other one's active.

00:42:13 ◼   ► See, this is, it's tough stuff, this is not easy stuff.

00:42:16 ◼   ► This is like the desktop metaphor

00:42:17 ◼   ► and every time you add something to it,

00:42:20 ◼   ► there are complications around it.

00:42:21 ◼   ► But that's just one of the first things

00:42:23 ◼   ► that struck me about it.

00:42:24 ◼   ► And I think it's less problematic on iOS,

00:42:28 ◼   ► although there's still some issues on iOS

00:42:30 ◼   ► with the split screen view.

00:42:31 ◼   ► I think it's a little less problematic

00:42:33 ◼   ► because you are physically interacting.

00:42:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, that problem doesn't exist there

00:42:37 ◼   ► because whatever you're touching

00:42:40 ◼   ► becomes the current. - Exactly.

00:42:43 ◼   ► There's no hovering with a cursor and then doing a gesture.

00:42:47 ◼   ► But in the iOS, if we take the iOS model and apply it here,

00:42:51 ◼   ► then absolutely when you move your cursor over it

00:42:53 ◼   ► and do a pinch and zoom, it should answer.

00:42:57 ◼   ► It should know that is what you're intending to work on.

00:43:00 ◼   ► But that's not how the Mac works at all.

00:43:02 ◼   ► You don't, you know, moving, 'cause on Unix

00:43:04 ◼   ► you have this situation where you move your cursor

00:43:06 ◼   ► over an app, in some of the, like X windows kind of,

00:43:10 ◼   ► interfaces, and forgive me because I'm sure there are specific names of specific kinds

00:43:13 ◼   ► of Linux, GUIs, in which this happens, but the idea is that the focus follows the cursor.

00:43:21 ◼   ► And for a Mac user, that's really weird, that the focus follows the cursor, that when your

00:43:25 ◼   ► mouse moves over that app, that app is now where the focus is. And for us, as Mac users,

00:43:30 ◼   ► you click, and then the focus comes. But, you know, yeah, I think that is sort of broken

00:43:38 ◼   ► in the split screen view and on the Mac.

00:43:41 ◼   ► But on iOS, yeah, it makes sense

00:43:42 ◼   ► because you're touching that app,

00:43:44 ◼   ► that app is gonna respond.

00:43:45 ◼   ► The only place where it gets a little weird is the keyboard.

00:43:48 ◼   ► But even there, you have to tap to get an insertion point.

00:43:51 ◼   ► I mean, you are tapping on something and saying,

00:43:53 ◼   ► this is where I want the keyboard to be.

00:43:56 ◼   ► And then the keyboard comes up.

00:43:57 ◼   ► So it's a lot clearer there

00:44:00 ◼   ► because it's not mediated by a little cursor

00:44:04 ◼   ► that you move around.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Should we take a break?

00:44:10 ◼   ► I think so.

00:44:11 ◼   ► This week's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Squarespace.

00:44:16 ◼   ► Start building your website today at squarespace.com and enter the offer code UPGRADE to get yourself

00:44:21 ◼   ► 10% off.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Squarespace.

00:44:24 ◼   ► Build it beautiful.

00:44:25 ◼   ► When it comes to finding a home for yourself on the internet, you should take my advice

00:44:29 ◼   ► and go to squarespace.com because they give you everything that you need to build an incredible,

00:44:34 ◼   ► looking website and take away all the stuff you don't want to have to worry about like

00:44:38 ◼   ► finding hosting, dealing with scaling and caching or where do you go and what do you

00:44:43 ◼   ► do if you get stuck with something or you need some help.

00:44:46 ◼   ► With Squarespace you can build a website that looks like it was professionally designed

00:44:50 ◼   ► regardless of your skill level or coding because all of their templates, all of their fantastic

00:44:55 ◼   ► responsive design templates are all professionally designed and then they have great tools that

00:45:00 ◼   ► you're able to build upon, you're able to drag and drop and change things and really

00:45:04 ◼   ► make it look like your own. You can choose fonts, you can choose colours and you can

00:45:09 ◼   ► tweak the layout to look exactly the way that you want. All of their tools are super intuitive

00:45:13 ◼   ► and you can make it feel like the place you want to live with your content.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Squarespace has state of the art technology that they use to power your website and they

00:45:21 ◼   ► also ensure security and stability too. They're trusted by millions of people around the world

00:45:27 ◼   ► and they have some huge companies as well that use the Squarespace platform.

00:45:31 ◼   ► We use it at Relay for our blog and for our store as well because they're two pieces of

00:45:36 ◼   ► functionality we didn't want to have to build ourselves so we got to Squarespace because

00:45:39 ◼   ► we know that they're going to do it better than we ever could.

00:45:43 ◼   ► But all of this stuff, this is just getting started with what Squarespace can offer you.

00:45:46 ◼   ► I said about getting stuck a moment ago, they have 24/7 support that are always on hand

00:45:50 ◼   ► via live chat and email.

00:45:52 ◼   ► They have teams located in New York, Dublin and Portland so they're there to help you

00:45:56 ◼   ► anytime day or night. They have their commerce platform. I mentioned that we use their store

00:46:00 ◼   ► functionality. This allows anybody to add a store to their Squarespace site. You can

00:46:04 ◼   ► sell physical and digital goods. They do inventory management for you. They can do all receipts

00:46:09 ◼   ► and billing stuff. They use Stripe as well so you can integrate all of that. They can

00:46:13 ◼   ► then integrate with companies like ShipStation, which is a great shipping company. They help

00:46:18 ◼   ► you out with shipping rates and that kind of stuff and printing of labels and stuff.

00:46:21 ◼   ► It's really, really cool. They have a thing called CoverPage. This allows you to build

00:46:25 ◼   ► really great looking single page websites that you can use.

00:46:28 ◼   ► They have rock solid fast hosting and just so much more.

00:46:31 ◼   ► They have a dev platform as well so if you want to get in under the hood and tinker with

00:46:34 ◼   ► things with Squarespace you can do that.

00:46:36 ◼   ► You can push your Squarespace website further than ever before.

00:46:40 ◼   ► If you sign up right now with one of their annual plans you'll also get yourself a free

00:46:44 ◼   ► domain name as well.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Squarespace plans start at just $8 a month and you can sign up for a free trial right

00:46:49 ◼   ► now with no credit card required and start building your website today by going to squarespace.com.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And when you decide to sign up, make sure that you use the offer code UPGRADE.

00:46:58 ◼   ► It's going to get you 10% off your first purchase and show your support for this show.

00:47:02 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Squarespace for helping us out today and for supporting us all at

00:47:06 ◼   ► Real AFM.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Squarespace.

00:47:08 ◼   ► Really beautiful.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Squarespace!

00:47:10 ◼   ► Squarespace!

00:47:11 ◼   ► So you've put in a little topic here, which I'm going to have to help explain to me.

00:47:17 ◼   ► Sure.

00:47:18 ◼   ► I wrote a post about it last week.

00:47:21 ◼   ► Okay, so we're recording this Monday.

00:47:24 ◼   ► So, morning my time, the New Horizons spacecraft will reach Pluto, formerly a planet, now debatably

00:47:35 ◼   ► a minor planet, but we, you know, when we were growing up it was always the ninth planet

00:47:41 ◼   ► and it's still one of the major bodies in the solar system.

00:47:45 ◼   ► And I just, I am a space nerd, I admit it, that is one of my nerdinesses in addition

00:47:51 ◼   ► to computer nerdiness and pop culture nerdiness, which we're going to get to because Comic-Con

00:47:57 ◼   ► also happened last week. But I wrote a post about it because I tried to cross the streams

00:48:02 ◼   ► with my tech nerdiness and my space nerdiness. So the idea here is this, Pluto is very, very

00:48:08 ◼   ► far away. It's like 3 billion miles away. We're 93 million million miles from the sun.

00:48:15 ◼   ► Pluto is 3 billion miles away. It is very, very, very, very far away. So far that it

00:48:20 ◼   ► it takes about four and a half hours for light or radio waves in this case to travel from

00:48:27 ◼   ► Earth to the spacecraft. So very far away. And on tomorrow the spacecraft will zoom past

00:48:36 ◼   ► Pluto and its moons and then into, you know, further deeper into the Kuiper belt and of

00:48:43 ◼   ► icy objects that sort of surround the solar system and then out into interstellar space.

00:48:49 ◼   ► So I think this is interesting for a few reasons.

00:48:52 ◼   ► One is that I think it's a great story of delayed gratification.

00:48:56 ◼   ► They launched it in 2006.

00:49:04 ◼   ► So they launched it before the iPhone.

00:49:09 ◼   ► This is a spacecraft that was built before the iPhone existed.

00:49:14 ◼   ► But it's, you know, it's a computer in there.

00:49:16 ◼   ► So first off, the people who run this mission

00:49:21 ◼   ► have been sitting for almost 10 years

00:49:24 ◼   ► just waiting for it to get to its destination.

00:49:26 ◼   ► And then literally, it will blow past its destination

00:49:30 ◼   ► in a day, less than a day, and that's it.

00:49:34 ◼   ► So delayed gratification and then, boom, all of this stuff

00:49:36 ◼   ► is going to happen.

00:49:37 ◼   ► And that's going to happen tomorrow.

00:49:39 ◼   ► So I think that's really exciting.

00:49:40 ◼   ► Tuesday, July 14 is when it's going to happen.

00:49:44 ◼   ► And it's also a story of delayed gratification in that,

00:49:48 ◼   ► during its closest approach, when it's just gobbling up,

00:49:52 ◼   ► 'cause it's only got this one shot at it,

00:49:53 ◼   ► so it's gonna be taking pictures

00:49:55 ◼   ► and using all of its instruments to gather all this data,

00:49:58 ◼   ► it's gonna be, one, it's too busy doing that

00:50:00 ◼   ► to send anything back to Earth,

00:50:02 ◼   ► and two, it's actually not gonna be able to see Earth

00:50:04 ◼   ► for part of it, because of the way it has to position itself,

00:50:07 ◼   ► its antenna won't be pointed at the Earth.

00:50:09 ◼   ► So it's delayed gratification in the sense that

00:50:13 ◼   ► When this is all happening, the most exciting things,

00:50:17 ◼   ► even, you can't see it live, not even live delayed

00:50:20 ◼   ► by 4.4 hours it takes for the transmissions

00:50:22 ◼   ► to get back to Earth.

00:50:22 ◼   ► It's gonna be too busy to talk to us.

00:50:24 ◼   ► So they're not gonna know until tomorrow night,

00:50:28 ◼   ► US time, whether it survived or if it hit like a piece

00:50:32 ◼   ► of debris and was destroyed, which they say is a one

00:50:36 ◼   ► in 10,000 chance, but, and they're flying it through

00:50:39 ◼   ► the path of one of the moons of Pluto,

00:50:41 ◼   ► the idea there being it's so big

00:50:42 ◼   ► that there's no debris in its path because it swept it all up.

00:50:47 ◼   ► So delayed gratification and then here we get into the computer stuff.

00:50:52 ◼   ► It's running a 12 megahertz processor.

00:50:57 ◼   ► It's got a lot of solid state storage from a time when

00:51:01 ◼   ► SSDs weren't common but they built in, there's a lot of, that's their storage,

00:51:04 ◼   ► they've got a lot of solid state storage.

00:51:07 ◼   ► So, and it went into safe mode a couple weeks ago and this is the computer part

00:51:11 ◼   ► of the story is

00:51:12 ◼   ► It had a computer error when they were trying to put it into its full exploration mode,

00:51:17 ◼   ► and they had to debug it.

00:51:18 ◼   ► Now I just want you to imagine for a minute debugging something that's, first off, it's

00:51:22 ◼   ► a 12 megahertz computer.

00:51:26 ◼   ► It's 3 billion miles away.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Every command you send to it will take four and a half hours to reach it, and then another

00:51:32 ◼   ► four and a half hours for the response to come back.

00:51:37 ◼   ► And the good news is that they resolved this.

00:51:40 ◼   ► They figured out what it was, they analyzed what they had done, they figured out that

00:51:43 ◼   ► it had gone into a safe mode because they had put, I think, put the commands in in the

00:51:47 ◼   ► wrong order, like just in the sequence, because you're dealing with very low power and this

00:51:52 ◼   ► very slow processor.

00:51:54 ◼   ► They've got it up and running now.

00:51:56 ◼   ► So that's cool.

00:51:57 ◼   ► The other thing we need to keep in mind is that I think it's a one megabit connection,

00:52:02 ◼   ► one kilobit connection, one kilobit per second from beyond Pluto. So when they've prioritized,

00:52:13 ◼   ► like, they've scripted the whole mission, they know all of the pictures it's taking,

00:52:16 ◼   ► and then they prioritize, like, that should be a good picture, that should be a good picture,

00:52:20 ◼   ► and they picked this, like, really basic data set to be the first thing that once it points

00:52:25 ◼   ► its antenna back at Earth, these are the first things that we send. Like, the "oo-ah" pictures

00:52:29 ◼   ► that are going to be on every website and every TV channel. They're going to send those

00:52:33 ◼   ► first. But it's going to collect so much data tomorrow that it's going to take, get this,

00:52:39 ◼   ► the next year for it all to come back. This little spaceship is going to continue motoring

00:52:45 ◼   ► off into interstellar space, and for the next year, while they steer it toward, they're

00:52:51 ◼   ► going to probably fly by another icy object out in deep space. But for the next year,

00:52:55 ◼   ► it's going to just very slowly dump everything back.

00:52:58 ◼   ► In fact, they've got a whole script set up

00:53:01 ◼   ► where like they're going to send lossy stuff first.

00:53:04 ◼   ► So they'll like send the JPEGs,

00:53:06 ◼   ► they'll send things that'll have some image artifacts,

00:53:07 ◼   ► but they want to, but there'll be smaller.

00:53:09 ◼   ► Those will come first.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Then they're going to send some thumbnails of everything.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Then they'll send all the full quality ones.

00:53:16 ◼   ► And they have a whole script of what gets sent when

00:53:20 ◼   ► over the course of not just weeks,

00:53:23 ◼   ► but months and almost a year, I think,

00:53:26 ◼   ► of data from this one day,

00:53:28 ◼   ► and from this period as they've been approaching Pluto.

00:53:31 ◼   ► So I think it's a really interesting tech story

00:53:34 ◼   ► in addition to being a space story,

00:53:35 ◼   ► that this is, you know, it's old tech anyway,

00:53:38 ◼   ► plus space tech is always even older

00:53:41 ◼   ► because they've got to have like proven simple systems.

00:53:44 ◼   ► You can't, you know, you can't send a mechanic out

00:53:47 ◼   ► to check on the computer when it's 4 billion miles away.

00:53:49 ◼   ► And then they also have to like harden all the parts

00:53:52 ◼   ► against radiation.

00:53:53 ◼   ► So this is a special radiation hardened part.

00:53:56 ◼   ► So I think that's a fun story.

00:53:58 ◼   ► I also think there's an interesting angle,

00:54:00 ◼   ► which is to think,

00:54:01 ◼   ► what will the next set of space probes be like?

00:54:04 ◼   ► Because in the last 10 years,

00:54:06 ◼   ► we've gotten really good at low power,

00:54:09 ◼   ► miniaturized technology.

00:54:13 ◼   ► Like mobile devices have really come on in the decades

00:54:19 ◼   ► since New Horizons was being prepared for launch.

00:54:23 ◼   ► And I think that's really interesting to think about.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Will our knowledge in how to make mobile,

00:54:30 ◼   ► I mean, this is as mobile as it gets, right?

00:54:32 ◼   ► Send it out of the solar system.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Will that lead, you know,

00:54:36 ◼   ► they're not gonna take something off the shelf

00:54:37 ◼   ► that's cutting edge today

00:54:38 ◼   ► and put it in a spaceship tomorrow.

00:54:40 ◼   ► It's gonna, there'll need to be some lag time.

00:54:42 ◼   ► But I would imagine if this is what this device is able to do

00:54:48 ◼   ► A 12 megahertz processor that was launched 10 years ago

00:54:53 ◼   ► and probably designed and built 15 years ago.

00:54:55 ◼   ► If this is what this can do,

00:54:57 ◼   ► can you imagine what some stuff that's based on

00:55:01 ◼   ► what we've learned about making devices

00:55:03 ◼   ► that can use less power

00:55:05 ◼   ► and that are still very powerful and very compact

00:55:08 ◼   ► might mean for future stuff?

00:55:09 ◼   ► So I just think it's a fun subject

00:55:11 ◼   ► and hopefully we'll see some cool pictures from--

00:55:13 ◼   ► - I'm happy that you've said about it

00:55:14 ◼   ► because I didn't really know anything about it at all.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Yeah, so tomorrow you can pay attention to basically no news.

00:55:22 ◼   ► It'll be us saying, well, it should be taking pictures now.

00:55:25 ◼   ► And then we wait.

00:55:28 ◼   ► And like I said, it's all about delayed gratification.

00:55:31 ◼   ► New Horizons wants you to wait.

00:55:33 ◼   ► But I think it's exciting.

00:55:34 ◼   ► And when I was reading about their computer problem

00:55:37 ◼   ► that they had and seeing the old tech involved and the fact

00:55:40 ◼   ► that we're talking about such a slow data link--

00:55:42 ◼   ► and they have to have these radio telescopes

00:55:45 ◼   ► all over the planet.

00:55:45 ◼   ► They're in Australia.

00:55:46 ◼   ► they're in the US and they're somewhere else.

00:55:49 ◼   ► Maybe it's the UK.

00:55:53 ◼   ► They have to have this network of radio telescopes

00:55:55 ◼   ► so that they're always, or receivers,

00:55:58 ◼   ► because they're always, you know,

00:56:01 ◼   ► they wanna stay in connection.

00:56:02 ◼   ► Even as the Earth turns,

00:56:04 ◼   ► they need to stay in connection with the spacecraft.

00:56:06 ◼   ► So it's just this incredibly hard technical problem.

00:56:10 ◼   ► In addition to the science that's going on

00:56:13 ◼   ► with the observations, the ship itself

00:56:16 ◼   ► and how we talk to it is this, it's like the solar system's hardest IT problem.

00:56:21 ◼   ► So I think that's kind of fascinating too.

00:56:24 ◼   ► So just before we started recording, the New Horizons craft settled the size of Pluto?

00:56:31 ◼   ► I don't know if you saw this.

00:56:33 ◼   ► Yes.

00:56:34 ◼   ► Yeah, that was in the press conference this morning, yeah.

00:56:35 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's interesting.

00:56:37 ◼   ► I don't know if it means it can be a planet or not.

00:56:40 ◼   ► I don't really understand if that's a possibility.

00:56:42 ◼   ► Well planet is not a, I mean it's not actually a helpful phrase because it's more complicated

00:56:49 ◼   ► than that. I think the International Astronomical Union came up with a redefinition of planets

00:56:55 ◼   ► that I think nobody is particularly satisfied with, but the idea is Pluto is not like the

00:56:59 ◼   ► other things we think of as planets, and it's more like these other objects that are icy

00:57:05 ◼   ► objects at the distant reaches of the solar system. And what precipitated the whole thing

00:57:10 ◼   ► is a guy named Myke Brown, who is PlutoKiller on Twitter, by the way, discovered an object

00:57:17 ◼   ► that is now called Eris, and it is heavier than Pluto. And it kind of called the question,

00:57:26 ◼   ► it's actually slightly smaller than Pluto, but it's more dense, so it's heavier, it's

00:57:28 ◼   ► got more mass. And that made everybody go, huh, okay, now we have to, now we really have

00:57:35 ◼   ► to do something. Either Eris is also a planet like Pluto is, or we need to maybe say, "You

00:57:41 ◼   ► know, Pluto and Eris and these other little icy things all the way out at the edge that

00:57:45 ◼   ► orbit in funny orbits that are not like any of the other planets, maybe they're not the

00:57:49 ◼   ► same as all of the stuff, the other eight objects we call planets. Maybe they're a different

00:57:55 ◼   ► kind of thing." And, you know, whether you want to call them planets or lesser planets

00:57:59 ◼   ► or minor planets or icy objects or trans-Neptunian objects, whatever you want to call them, they

00:58:07 ◼   ► are different because the discovery of Eris was like, "All right, now we need to say."

00:58:11 ◼   ► And then there's also a space probe around Ceres, which we've always talked of as an

00:58:15 ◼   ► asteroid. It's in the asteroid belt, but it's round and big. And you could maybe argue,

00:58:21 ◼   ► and I saw some scientists on Twitter the other day say, "The more we look at Ceres, the

00:58:27 ◼   ► less it looks like an asteroid. So you almost need to say it's a small planet

00:58:31 ◼   ► and what is it? It's different even from... It's just different even from Pluto and

00:58:36 ◼   ► and and well it's just it's closer in and it's small it's much smaller than

00:58:40 ◼   ► than the other the other planets in the inner solar system but is it an

00:58:44 ◼   ► asteroid or is it a planet? It's it's just kind of fun but but anyway Myke

00:58:47 ◼   ► Brown discovered Eris and that kind of made everybody question the simple sort

00:58:52 ◼   ► of nine planets approach that we taught, you know, kids in school. And, you know, they

00:58:58 ◼   ► might be giants to the fun song about this on their Here Comes Science album. And one

00:59:04 ◼   ► of the things that they, one of the phrases they used is, you know, there's Pluto, Eris

00:59:07 ◼   ► and a bunch of other stuff out there. And it's okay to talk about the other, all the

00:59:10 ◼   ► frozen stuff that's out beyond Neptune. And that's cool. But I recommend Myke Brown's

00:59:16 ◼   ► he has a book I think it's called it's like how I killed Pluto which is

00:59:26 ◼   ► actually a lot of fun about how yeah it's how I killed Pluto and why it had

00:59:29 ◼   ► it coming it's a good book about the good title it's a really yeah and he is

00:59:34 ◼   ► he is Pluto killer on on Twitter so he's enjoy I'm sure he's enjoying this too

00:59:39 ◼   ► because this is his field of study is these icy bodies out of the far reaches

00:59:43 ◼   ► of the solar system and we'll learn a lot from that that spaceship with the 12

00:59:47 ◼   ► megahertz processor you know for the last month every picture it's taken even

00:59:52 ◼   ► as it's been approaching Pluto has been the best picture ever taken of Pluto so

00:59:57 ◼   ► yeah it's fun. Just a quick question about that that what is it called the

01:00:04 ◼   ► craft? New Horizons. So after it goes past Pluto is it gonna be looking for

01:00:12 ◼   ► anything else? Like is it just carrying on? Or will it finish? Will it run out of fuel or whatever?

01:00:18 ◼   ► Well it's got a radioactive... it has some propellant and has a

01:00:22 ◼   ► radioactive power source. So what they plan on doing after they pass Pluto and

01:00:28 ◼   ► they know that the ship is okay, what they're gonna do is they've got...

01:00:30 ◼   ► I'm not sure if they've picked... they've got a couple different objects that they

01:00:34 ◼   ► could head for, so they want to head for another known icy object out there in

01:00:39 ◼   ► in what's called the Kuiper Belt and fly by it too.

01:00:44 ◼   ► And so I think that's their goal is to fly by another one

01:00:50 ◼   ► of these kinds of objects, smaller than Pluto,

01:00:52 ◼   ► but not very well known, you know, because they're far out.

01:00:55 ◼   ► We don't know a lot about these objects.

01:00:56 ◼   ► And the idea is that this is the stuff that's left over

01:00:59 ◼   ► from the formation of the solar system.

01:01:00 ◼   ► So you can learn a lot about the solar system

01:01:04 ◼   ► and about the formation of the planets

01:01:06 ◼   ► and the solar system from this kind of junk

01:01:09 ◼   ► that's just kind of floating around

01:01:11 ◼   ► in the far reaches of the solar system.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And then after that, after they do whatever corrections

01:01:16 ◼   ► they do to try and go past one of those objects,

01:01:18 ◼   ► then it just keeps going.

01:01:19 ◼   ► Just like, I think Voyager 2 is the furthest away

01:01:24 ◼   ► of any object that is manmade

01:01:27 ◼   ► and is now out beyond the influence of the sun,

01:01:31 ◼   ► but it just keeps going.

01:01:33 ◼   ► And if it's anything like, I haven't read this,

01:01:35 ◼   ► But I assume if it's anything like Voyager,

01:01:37 ◼   ► they will try to keep it alive as long as they can

01:01:39 ◼   ► and try to do some basic science.

01:01:41 ◼   ► Like Voyager, its whole goal was to look at planets,

01:01:44 ◼   ► but it's actually been really useful scientifically

01:01:46 ◼   ► using some of its instruments

01:01:48 ◼   ► and its draining power source to radio back faintly

01:01:52 ◼   ► information about like what it's measuring

01:01:54 ◼   ► as it goes further and further away from the sun.

01:01:56 ◼   ► They've been able to sort of like learn

01:01:58 ◼   ► how far does the sun's influence go.

01:02:00 ◼   ► So, you know, I'm hoping that they'll do something similar

01:02:03 ◼   ► that because this is the fastest object that we've ever shot out of the solar system.

01:02:09 ◼   ► So at some point New Horizons will be the furthest away of any man-made object.

01:02:15 ◼   ► That's really interesting to me, right?

01:02:17 ◼   ► Because how much do we really know who passed Pluto?

01:02:20 ◼   ► Like I assume not a lot.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Well I mean this stuff is smaller and it's very hard to see from Earth even with the

01:02:25 ◼   ► Hubble Space Telescope.

01:02:28 ◼   ► It's hard to see and it's easier to see.

01:02:29 ◼   ► I mean, this is not a floating flying telescope

01:02:33 ◼   ► where it can be like the Hubble Space Telescope,

01:02:36 ◼   ► but far away.

01:02:37 ◼   ► Its cameras are more limited than that,

01:02:39 ◼   ► but it is out there, right?

01:02:40 ◼   ► So there's an opportunity for it to notice things

01:02:44 ◼   ► about that region of space that we have to look at

01:02:48 ◼   ► from very far away, like I said, 4 billion miles away.

01:02:51 ◼   ► And it's, you know, this is why,

01:02:54 ◼   ► I mean, why did Eris get discovered 10 years ago

01:02:58 ◼   ► or less than that, five years ago, eight, seven years ago,

01:03:01 ◼   ► not a long time ago.

01:03:02 ◼   ► Well, no, actually, I think it was exactly 10 years ago.

01:03:08 ◼   ► It got discovered then because it took that long

01:03:10 ◼   ► for us to have good enough ground-based

01:03:13 ◼   ► and space-based telescopes and computers

01:03:16 ◼   ► to take these pictures of the sky and notice that,

01:03:19 ◼   ► oh, that little dot of light moved a little bit.

01:03:23 ◼   ► It's very hard to see from here.

01:03:25 ◼   ► So this has been one of those kind of cutting edges

01:03:29 ◼   ► of astronomy because it's required the technology

01:03:33 ◼   ► that we have today in order to find this stuff.

01:03:35 ◼   ► Like Myke Brown writes about how he, you know,

01:03:37 ◼   ► he took all of these images that were taken

01:03:39 ◼   ► by the telescopes in Hawaii and ran them through a computer.

01:03:43 ◼   ► And it was like, literally the computer is looking at,

01:03:45 ◼   ► you know, millions of images trying to find moving objects.

01:03:49 ◼   ► And most of them are gonna be like airplanes or satellites,

01:03:52 ◼   ► but what they're trying to do is identify,

01:03:54 ◼   ► are there any objects out there big enough for us to find?

01:03:57 ◼   ► And the answer was, actually his answer about a year ago

01:04:01 ◼   ► was no, it seems like we probably got them all

01:04:04 ◼   ► that we're capable of seeing right now.

01:04:06 ◼   ► - Well, there you go. - Frontiers of science.

01:04:10 ◼   ► It's kind of fun.

01:04:11 ◼   ► And the tech, I like the tech angle.

01:04:12 ◼   ► I mean, imagine we get frustrated by our computers

01:04:15 ◼   ► here on earth and then they have to deal with this computer

01:04:17 ◼   ► that is four and a half hours away by radio

01:04:21 ◼   ► and on a slow connection running a slow processor,

01:04:24 ◼   ► and that's all they've got.

01:04:26 ◼   ► They've got to make it work.

01:04:27 ◼   ► - It's crazy stuff, man.

01:04:29 ◼   ► I'm happy that you took the time to talk about this,

01:04:30 ◼   ► 'cause I had no idea about any of this, really.

01:04:33 ◼   ► I mean, I know that something was happening, right?

01:04:35 ◼   ► But in the past, I didn't know anything.

01:04:37 ◼   ► - So should we switch off and talk about something

01:04:40 ◼   ► that's just as nerdy, but in a totally different direction?

01:04:43 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:04:44 ◼   ► Comic-Con.

01:04:46 ◼   ► - Comic-Con!

01:04:48 ◼   ► So there's been a bunch of stuff as there is every year.

01:04:52 ◼   ► Disney's showing basically was Star Wars this year,

01:04:56 ◼   ► no real Marvel stuff.

01:04:58 ◼   ► And DC attempted to display their expanded universe

01:05:03 ◼   ► as did Fox.

01:05:06 ◼   ► All superhero all the time.

01:05:08 ◼   ► And I wanted to talk about a couple of the trailers

01:05:11 ◼   ► specifically, and then we could talk about whatever else

01:05:14 ◼   ► you wanted to as well.

01:05:15 ◼   ► So first off I want to talk about the Dawn of Justice trailer. So this is Batman/Superman.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Yep.

01:05:20 ◼   ► So this one came out, this is like a general frustration of mine is, why don't they put

01:05:24 ◼   ► the trailers all out like after they show?

01:05:27 ◼   ► Well I think they didn't they with Batman vs Superman?

01:05:29 ◼   ► They did with Batman and Superman, they did with the Star Wars, but like I want to watch

01:05:33 ◼   ► the Deadpool trailer but it's like apparently it's gonna be in the next, it's gonna be three

01:05:36 ◼   ► weeks away?

01:05:37 ◼   ► Well they haven't learned the lesson that the people who did the Star Wars, this year

01:05:43 ◼   ► I felt like some some companies really got it like there was some stuff that was posted as soon as it was shown and

01:05:49 ◼   ► The panels were posted now like we're just gonna put it out there

01:05:53 ◼   ► Rather than have it be some sort of shaky cam version of this thing

01:05:57 ◼   ► We're just gonna put it out there and then other companies haven't learned the lesson yet. Nope. So yeah, I think it'll happen

01:06:02 ◼   ► I think eventually everybody will realize you first to show it at Comic Con and then you show it to the whole world

01:06:06 ◼   ► immediately after you don't

01:06:09 ◼   ► Say no no no you see it see it in three weeks until then just watch this handheld

01:06:13 ◼   ► You know cell phone camera version of it. That's stupid

01:06:17 ◼   ► So I want to let's talk about the one of justice so basically the conceit of the trailer is

01:06:23 ◼   ► People everybody's upset Superman for what he did to metropolis

01:06:29 ◼   ► Yeah at the end of Man of Steel. Yeah, so like trying trying to take the the gigantic mistake of

01:06:38 ◼   ► movie and make it a plot point that's clever so you know you have spoken about

01:06:42 ◼   ► this length on episode 146 of the incomparable which I'll put in today's

01:06:47 ◼   ► show notes which I think that people should listen to in case they haven't

01:06:50 ◼   ► already that's in there so that's where to discuss Man of Steel and I agreed

01:06:57 ◼   ► with everybody on the panel basically that it was too much destruction too

01:07:00 ◼   ► many people killed potentially and it was all ridiculous and I have a long

01:07:06 ◼   ► weren't in problems with Superman as a character anyway, that don't work in 2015, like the

01:07:12 ◼   ► fact that the disguise wouldn't work because everyone was seeing pictures of his face,

01:07:16 ◼   ► like it's just, the Clark Kent disguise is pointless now.

01:07:20 ◼   ► But the short version is that Man of Steel felt a little too cavalier with the destruction

01:07:25 ◼   ► of city blocks and that Superman didn't appear to really care or attempt to move the destruction

01:07:33 ◼   ► elsewhere and that that seemed very unheroic and plus the fight isn't very interesting

01:07:38 ◼   ► because they're both invulnerable so they're destroying buildings but they have no, they

01:07:42 ◼   ► don't actually hurt each other to speak of because they're super powerful, all-powerful

01:07:47 ◼   ► beings. So in this trailer we see Batman, we see Bruce Wayne witnessing this destruction

01:07:54 ◼   ► and apparently the idea is that there are a lot of people on Earth who feel like I do

01:08:00 ◼   ► about the end of Man of Steel and have a problem with Superman and you know Batman's not gonna

01:08:07 ◼   ► I guess not gonna take it anymore or something.

01:08:10 ◼   ► Before we talk about any more of the details of the trailer because I did want to talk

01:08:14 ◼   ► about a few more I have a question for you.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Do you think that the city-wide destruction in Man of Steel was portrayed the way it was

01:08:26 ◼   ► for this movie to exist and have a plot, or do you think it is a reaction after the fact?

01:08:34 ◼   ► I think it's a reaction after the fact. I've heard from some fans who basically are trying

01:08:38 ◼   ► to say, "See, the reason it happens that way in Man of Steel is so they could do this movie."

01:08:44 ◼   ► Well, I think I've seen some statements from the filmmakers to the contrary, but I'll just

01:08:49 ◼   ► say if they ended that movie the way they did because they thought this is going to

01:08:55 ◼   ► make a great sequel, they are really stupid because the last thing you need to do is wreck

01:09:00 ◼   ► your movie and make people hate it because you've got a really great sequel idea. Because

01:09:05 ◼   ► first off you need to make a good movie or there won't be a sequel or you won't be asked

01:09:09 ◼   ► to make it. So I don't believe that this is all part of some great plan that people would

01:09:15 ◼   ► - that you would undermine Superman to this degree. So I think it's a reaction. I think

01:09:21 ◼   ► that that actually fed into this is people were people were kind of appalled

01:09:24 ◼   ► by the ending of the movie and they said oh that's actually an interesting way

01:09:29 ◼   ► into this story to have people like like Lex Luthor and Batman as it turns out be

01:09:36 ◼   ► appalled by what happened in the movie but if that was the plan all along I

01:09:39 ◼   ► think that they're guilty of some serious malpractice because it wrecked

01:09:43 ◼   ► you know it wrecked the movie for me so it's like hey we're gonna make you

01:09:48 ◼   ► really angry at this movie so we can make another movie."

01:09:50 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:51 ◼   ► - My feeling would be if that was gonna be what they did, then they should have had a

01:09:56 ◼   ► hint to Batman at the end of the movie.

01:09:58 ◼   ► Like if that was the decision that they made, then Bruce Wayne should have been at the end

01:10:01 ◼   ► of the movie.

01:10:02 ◼   ► - There were no consequences at the end of the movie.

01:10:04 ◼   ► At the end of the movie of Man of Steel, if it was very clear that this fight that happened

01:10:10 ◼   ► was horrible and that that you know Superman was was kind of morally I don't

01:10:21 ◼   ► know just questionable at this point that that people were wondering that I

01:10:26 ◼   ► think I think that would have been an interesting way to end it but boy that

01:10:30 ◼   ► would be a really that would be an even more dark way in that movie so I don't

01:10:35 ◼   ► know it's a it's a complicated topic we talked about a lot on that

01:10:39 ◼   ► an incomparable episode. So you know you can go there for it. My question with this movie

01:10:42 ◼   ► is I find it problematic when I watch the trailer that I agree with Batman and Lex Luthor

01:10:50 ◼   ► about Superman. Like I agree with them that he's a menace who could destroy everything

01:10:55 ◼   ► and he's shown no evidence that he is on our side and that he cares about human life and

01:11:01 ◼   ► the fact that in the trailer his mother says you don't owe these people anything. I'm like

01:11:06 ◼   ► "Oh man!" And I also know that Superman...

01:11:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, but why is that bad though? Like, you've got to pick a side, so maybe they're setting it up, especially in this trailer, to make you pick that man's side.

01:11:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, the... why it's bad is that Superman is incredibly valuable, and so in the end they're gonna learn that it's Lex Luthor who's the true enemy,

01:11:24 ◼   ► and they're gonna form the Justice League with Wonder Woman and Aquaman, and everybody's gonna be happy.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And my question is, can this movie do enough

01:11:34 ◼   ► to redeem that character after the disaster

01:11:38 ◼   ► that I feel was the end of "Man of Steel"?

01:11:40 ◼   ► And that would be quite impressive if it does that.

01:11:44 ◼   ► I'll put it that way.

01:11:45 ◼   ► I would be very impressed if in the end,

01:11:47 ◼   ► this was about bringing Superman low

01:11:49 ◼   ► and having him realize the error of his ways

01:11:51 ◼   ► and that he now needs to start acting like a true hero

01:11:54 ◼   ► and care for people.

01:11:55 ◼   ► And if that's his character arc,

01:11:57 ◼   ► That would be a bold move for a character that is generally portrayed as being just

01:12:02 ◼   ► a Mr. Friendly Sunshine Happy superhero guy.

01:12:06 ◼   ► But they could do it.

01:12:07 ◼   ► That would be fascinating if Batman teaches Superman what it means to actually be a hero.

01:12:11 ◼   ► I have my suspicions that that's not going to be how it goes.

01:12:14 ◼   ► So I have a couple of other questions about this trailer and I'm hoping you might be able

01:12:18 ◼   ► to help clean up for me.

01:12:22 ◼   ► First is, is this Batman's origin story?

01:12:24 ◼   ► seems not but it seems like they're making some weird crosses because you

01:12:29 ◼   ► know he picks up the paper and it's like Wayne family dies because one of the

01:12:33 ◼   ► buildings that they destroy is a Wayne building but but there seems like to be

01:12:40 ◼   ► cause to the fact that this is Batman returning to action right I think that's

01:12:45 ◼   ► what it is I think this is I think that Batman has already existed but that this

01:12:51 ◼   ► is a the impetus for either Batman to return or for him to change his approach

01:12:56 ◼   ► from what he was doing before and think you know think more globally maybe or

01:13:01 ◼   ► maybe you know beyond just being a protector of Gotham or something like

01:13:04 ◼   ► that but I agree you can almost look at it like this is the origin of Batman he

01:13:08 ◼   ► becomes Batman because he's so outraged I don't think the timeline works for

01:13:12 ◼   ► that I don't think it makes it makes any sense that he would be a new Ben Affleck

01:13:17 ◼   ► would decide to be new Batman at this point so it's got to be more complicated

01:13:20 ◼   ► than that but I think the trailer sort of simplifies it to make you feel like

01:13:24 ◼   ► no no no this is the this is when we meet Batman it's important that you meet

01:13:27 ◼   ► him now yeah because there are some parts of the trailer which show that

01:13:31 ◼   ► Batman had already existed like you know when he and you've I'm sure you've seen

01:13:36 ◼   ► the trailer I don't know how much you studied it or looked up about it because

01:13:39 ◼   ► I've been a bit fascinated by it you know when he looks at that suit and it's

01:13:43 ◼   ► got the yellow spray paint on it in the trailer I don't know if you remember it

01:13:47 ◼   ► that is Robin's suit and it's yeah it's what the Joker writes on is it is it

01:13:55 ◼   ► Jason Todd I you you're beyond my I I only occasionally I only go to the

01:14:03 ◼   ► Church of Batman for Easter okay so one of the Robins was caught by Batman and

01:14:07 ◼   ► yeah that's what was caught by the Joker and by the Joker yeah and so basically

01:14:12 ◼   ► the the suit is up in this case and it's got the Joker writing on it and it's so

01:14:15 ◼   ► Robin suit so so he's a messed up you know maybe retired or semi-retired

01:14:20 ◼   ► Batman who comes back into action because of all the crap that has gone on

01:14:24 ◼   ► with Superman and Zod destroying cities and stuff yep there's also one other

01:14:29 ◼   ► point which is weird I don't know if you've got an answer but I wanted to

01:14:32 ◼   ► mention it seems really weird to me there's like Batman is getting beaten up

01:14:36 ◼   ► by a bunch of people those people have Superman's logos on their arms like

01:14:40 ◼   ► there's Superman's army which I can't I don't know what that means like there's

01:14:44 ◼   ► so many questions. So my guess is that they're not going to portray their most important

01:14:49 ◼   ► piece of intellectual property as a fascist and that it's going to be that Superman's

01:14:54 ◼   ► name and likeness and logo are used, unauthorized use, by people who fancy themselves vigilantes

01:15:03 ◼   ► in the name. That's my guess about what that means is that the meaning of Superman kind

01:15:09 ◼   ► of is out of Superman's control and starts to represent a whole bunch of things that

01:15:15 ◼   ► he doesn't want it to. And then my guess based on the first half of Man of Steel, which I

01:15:19 ◼   ► actually liked a lot, is that this allows Henry Cavill to be sort of mopey disaffected

01:15:27 ◼   ► Clark Kent, which I actually really like the fact that he is he is alien, like literally

01:15:30 ◼   ► alienated from humanity. He's not human. And that after all of these bad experiences, maybe

01:15:35 ◼   ► he's like I don't even want to be involved and then his story arc maybe is

01:15:40 ◼   ► that he realizes he can't not be involved because he's made such an

01:15:44 ◼   ► imprint on society that if he doesn't take control of it other people will use

01:15:48 ◼   ► his name to do things he doesn't agree with that that that's what I read I read

01:15:52 ◼   ► into the you know fighters with the Superman logo is that they're not

01:15:55 ◼   ► authorized those are not authorized merchandise jackets is what I'm saying

01:16:00 ◼   ► Interesting. I'm excited about this movie having seen this trailer. I like the idea

01:16:07 ◼   ► of angry Batman, like really angry Batman, coming out of retirement to punch Superman

01:16:15 ◼   ► in the face. I kind of like that. I've never really liked Superman, Jason.

01:16:20 ◼   ► No, I agree. I agree. I've never really liked Superman. I mean, Superman's fine. He's boring.

01:16:26 ◼   ► Batman is much more interesting. Superman is great, he's apple pie and la la la. But

01:16:30 ◼   ► um, I agree with you, I didn't like the teaser trailer, I thought it was more of the same

01:16:34 ◼   ► from Zack Snyder and I was just like writing it off like, "this is a total disaster." I

01:16:38 ◼   ► looked at this one and said, "you know what, I'm not inclined to go see it, but I'm more

01:16:42 ◼   ► interested in it than I was before I saw the trailer because of that at least hint that

01:16:47 ◼   ► maybe they will, they will, you know, may--" just to back up and think about the corporate

01:16:54 ◼   ► politics here. Superman's always been perceived as number one, but I gotta say, I think Batman

01:16:57 ◼   ► is number one. Batman is more liked and more relevant in modern movies and in modern culture

01:17:04 ◼   ► than Superman is. Superman's sort of like Grandpa's superhero, and Batman is the superhero

01:17:11 ◼   ► of the last 20 years, certainly from DC. And so that would be really interesting if this

01:17:16 ◼   ► whole movie is about Batman punching Superman in the face and saying, "You screwed up, and

01:17:21 ◼   ► you need to hear what we have to say about this." That would be really interesting. Like

01:17:26 ◼   ► I said, I would love to see a movie where Superman is brought low and realizes that

01:17:29 ◼   ► he's really blown it and that he needs to make amends, and that that's where the Justice

01:17:35 ◼   ► League comes from. That would be interesting. I'm not sure I've got any confidence in Zack

01:17:39 ◼   ► Snyder to pull that off, but that would be a really interesting story and that would

01:17:43 ◼   ► make Superman way more interesting. And also, I think, wouldn't that be interesting for

01:17:48 ◼   ► Batman to like have him be the guy who is the adult supervision who's like you know

01:17:52 ◼   ► shape up Sunny that would be cool yeah and just to be like because it's a retired Batman

01:17:58 ◼   ► it's like let me teach you yeah the things that you need to know if you're going to try

01:18:03 ◼   ► and do this yeah and then also Wonder Woman is in it because reasons um thank you Joe

01:18:10 ◼   ► Steele for pointing that out she Wonder Woman and apparently Aquaman um Jason Momoa who

01:18:16 ◼   ► might remember as uh as uh caldrogo from game of thrones is i believe he's aquaman i think

01:18:22 ◼   ► so he may show up at some point too makes sense to have them all in it i think just

01:18:26 ◼   ► to solidify the justice league movie this this this is the movie where dc this is like

01:18:32 ◼   ► their iron man this is the movie where they say we we are now a shared universe as of

01:18:37 ◼   ► this movie it turns out that yes man of steel was part of it but like this is the moment

01:18:41 ◼   ► where they're like here's our plan we're gonna have a lot of movies this is where it starts

01:18:44 ◼   ► you start to meet these characters. So, you know, I wish them luck. I mean, I wish them

01:18:49 ◼   ► luck. I think Man of Steel is a terrible foundation to build on, but you can always, you know,

01:18:57 ◼   ► you're only as successful as your latest movie, right? So if Batman vs Superman does the trick,

01:19:02 ◼   ► then they'll be off and running.

01:19:04 ◼   ► My hope will be that they realize that the foundation is this movie, you know? Then that's

01:19:10 ◼   ► why they're putting everyone in it. They want this one to be a remembered one. The last

01:19:13 ◼   ► thing that I wanted to mention this Jason was what do you think about the

01:19:16 ◼   ► idea of a Ben Affleck directed solo Batman movie?

01:19:20 ◼   ► That was the rumor.

01:19:22 ◼   ► I have no opposition to that I think I think that's I think Ben Affleck is

01:19:25 ◼   ► actually a talented guy and and I think that would be an interesting idea to

01:19:30 ◼   ► that might be that might be DC's actual Iron Man right they're actual like let's

01:19:37 ◼   ► take somebody who's got a little bit more of a vision for this character and

01:19:40 ◼   ► and have them do a movie.

01:19:42 ◼   ► I would love to see that.

01:19:43 ◼   ► I would love to see a different take on Batman

01:19:45 ◼   ► that is not Christopher Nolan's Batman

01:19:47 ◼   ► that we've seen for the last 10 years.

01:19:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm a big fan of Ben Affleck,

01:19:51 ◼   ► and especially if he's directing work,

01:19:54 ◼   ► so I'm very excited about that, personally.

01:19:57 ◼   ► What did you think of the Star Wars stuff?

01:19:59 ◼   ► It wasn't a trailer, but just like a reel of things.

01:20:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was like to get the fans hyped up.

01:20:05 ◼   ► I thought it was good for that.

01:20:06 ◼   ► I think, you know, it wasn't a trailer.

01:20:09 ◼   ► We had a bunch of people ask,

01:20:10 ◼   ► Is the incomparable gonna do five hours about this video?

01:20:12 ◼   ► And the answer is we're not gonna do anything about it

01:20:14 ◼   ► 'cause it's not a trailer.

01:20:14 ◼   ► It's like a behind the scenes reel.

01:20:17 ◼   ► It's like a DVD extra kind of thing.

01:20:19 ◼   ► And I think it's interesting.

01:20:19 ◼   ► It gave away some new character names and some settings

01:20:24 ◼   ► and some other hints about what we're gonna see

01:20:26 ◼   ► in the new Star Wars movie.

01:20:27 ◼   ► And I thought that was a perfectly appropriate thing

01:20:30 ◼   ► to drop at Comic-Con.

01:20:32 ◼   ► I'll also point out,

01:20:33 ◼   ► and some people were pointing this out last week,

01:20:35 ◼   ► that Disney's got a lot of events.

01:20:37 ◼   ► They had the Star Wars,

01:20:38 ◼   ► the big Star Wars event in Orange County earlier this year, and then they've got the big Disney

01:20:42 ◼   ► Expo that they do. So Disney's got kind of some of its own events where it wants to make

01:20:46 ◼   ► news. So I feel like maybe this was a good use of Comic-Con. It's not dropping the full

01:20:51 ◼   ► trailer but it's still doing something for the fans, keeping the hype, building. They

01:20:57 ◼   ► had the three principal actors from the original trilogy on stage at Comic-Con, which was a

01:21:04 ◼   ► big deal. It wasn't just Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher, but Harrison Ford was there too. I'm

01:21:08 ◼   ► I'm not sure he's made public appearances since he got in his plane crash on that golf course.

01:21:13 ◼   ► So, um, so I, I, that was, yeah.

01:21:16 ◼   ► And he doesn't like, uh, you know, he's rumored to be very, you know, testy about,

01:21:20 ◼   ► you know, appearing with fans and star Wars stuff and all of that, but he was there too.

01:21:23 ◼   ► So, and he seemed to have fun like, yeah.

01:21:25 ◼   ► So, so I think, I think it was good, but in terms of, um,

01:21:29 ◼   ► judging how the movie's going to be, it didn't, didn't really tell us anything.

01:21:34 ◼   ► It was just sort of like little tidbits for the fans, which is fine.

01:21:36 ◼   ► That's a great use of Comic-Con.

01:21:38 ◼   ► - A couple of things that I liked from The Real,

01:21:43 ◼   ► they were talking about practical effects a lot

01:21:46 ◼   ► and they showed some of that and they showed some models,

01:21:48 ◼   ► which look really cool.

01:21:49 ◼   ► And it's nice to see that sort of stuff there, right?

01:21:52 ◼   ► 'Cause it shows that JJ is embracing what people want,

01:21:55 ◼   ► even whether he wants it or not, which I'm sure he does,

01:21:58 ◼   ► but you know, he's trying to give people what they want.

01:22:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, he wants it to,

01:22:02 ◼   ► I think the way to phrase it is,

01:22:04 ◼   ► JJ Abrams is embracing what the fans of the original trilogy want, which is fine because he's one of them.

01:22:11 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:12 ◼   ► So he gets it.

01:22:13 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:14 ◼   ► And also Simon Pegg, which is just funny that he's in it.

01:22:18 ◼   ► He's in it in a costume.

01:22:19 ◼   ► In an alien costume.

01:22:20 ◼   ► [laughs]

01:22:21 ◼   ► I really hope, I really hope that you just never would know it's him.

01:22:25 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:22:26 ◼   ► And he's just because he wants to.

01:22:28 ◼   ► I assume that's what it is.

01:22:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:29 ◼   ► I absolutely assume that's what it is.

01:22:32 ◼   ► And I would expect that he would probably be the first in a long line of people that

01:22:37 ◼   ► are doing something like that in this movie.

01:22:39 ◼   ► You know, that know JJ, so I think that's really cool.

01:22:42 ◼   ► And I liked it.

01:22:43 ◼   ► Was there anything else from Comic Con specifically that you wanted to mention that caught your

01:22:48 ◼   ► eye?

01:22:49 ◼   ► No, I mean, I think it's worth mentioning, you know, the other superhero stuff.

01:22:53 ◼   ► There's another DC movie, they had the Suicide Squad on stage.

01:22:57 ◼   ► I saw like a shaky cam over the shoulder version of that.

01:23:01 ◼   ► I thought it looked pretty cool. Yeah so we'll see when the real official version

01:23:06 ◼   ► comes out and then Fox had their, Marvel wasn't there but Fox had their stuff

01:23:10 ◼   ► that they own of Marvel's there so they were talking about the new X-Men movie

01:23:13 ◼   ► which follows on from Days of Future Past. I still haven't seen that yet. It's

01:23:19 ◼   ► pretty good it's you know it's well it's pretty good for an X-Men movie. Oh burn!

01:23:25 ◼   ► But that's that's sort of how I I take it. It's a fun combination of the old

01:23:28 ◼   ► cast and the new cast and this apocalypse I think is similarly kind of a mix-up of old and new

01:23:36 ◼   ► and then they also showed some stuff from their Deadpool movie which I have zero interest in

01:23:41 ◼   ► because I don't like Deadpool but it's what's interesting about it is it's an R-rated movie so

01:23:47 ◼   ► it's going to be super violent and raunchy and stuff which I think you know what I think that's

01:23:51 ◼   ► interesting to do a superhero movie that's got that breaks some of the rules that have been

01:23:55 ◼   ► established for superhero movies so Suicide Squad also looks very risky. Yeah it does I suspect it

01:24:04 ◼   ► will be right on the edge of PG-13 and not verge over into R whereas Deadpool I don't know like

01:24:09 ◼   ► yeah just the trailer that I'd seen it looked a little uh a little much I would be surprised I

01:24:16 ◼   ► mean I don't know what the classifications are but it looked way further than I've seen any other

01:24:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm sure they're gonna push it, but I'm skeptical.

01:24:25 ◼   ► But we'll see, but Deadpool, they're just going for the R.

01:24:28 ◼   ► So it's gonna be gory and profane,

01:24:32 ◼   ► and they're gonna amp it up all the way.

01:24:35 ◼   ► There were some teases of the DC TV stuff,

01:24:38 ◼   ► which I think is, that's the DC comic stuff

01:24:40 ◼   ► that I really love, is the Flash and Arrow,

01:24:42 ◼   ► and they've got a new spinoff coming,

01:24:43 ◼   ► and they're also doing a Supergirl show,

01:24:45 ◼   ► the same producers.

01:24:46 ◼   ► There was some zombie news.

01:24:49 ◼   ► There's a Walking Dead spinoff called Fear the Walking Dead,

01:24:51 ◼   ► which is sort of, The Walking Dead,

01:24:53 ◼   ► which I read as a comic too,

01:24:55 ◼   ► it's clever in how it starts out

01:24:57 ◼   ► because especially since they didn't have the budget,

01:24:59 ◼   ► it starts out as the guy wakes up,

01:25:01 ◼   ► Rick wakes up in the hospital,

01:25:02 ◼   ► he gets shot and he's in a coma

01:25:04 ◼   ► and then he wakes up and there's nobody around

01:25:06 ◼   ► and the apocalypse has already happened.

01:25:08 ◼   ► So now that The Walking Dead is like

01:25:10 ◼   ► one of the most successful shows on TV,

01:25:13 ◼   ► not just cable TV, on television in total,

01:25:17 ◼   ► they have the budget to do Fear The Walking Dead,

01:25:20 ◼   ► which is set in LA and tells the story of the zombie apocalypse hitting LA.

01:25:27 ◼   ► Which is, that's a very interesting thing.

01:25:30 ◼   ► That's a very interesting choice.

01:25:32 ◼   ► I'm more interested in this than The Current Walking Dead because I read the comic and

01:25:37 ◼   ► The Walking Dead comic in my opinion is miles better than the TV show.

01:25:40 ◼   ► I agree with you.

01:25:41 ◼   ► I agree with you.

01:25:42 ◼   ► I think the TV show is fine but the comic is great.

01:25:45 ◼   ► I think this will be interesting.

01:25:46 ◼   ► like the lessons learned from doing the other show and the fact that they can wind the clock

01:25:50 ◼   ► back and and tell that which is you know the fun story as a zombie you know telling a zombie

01:25:56 ◼   ► story of how how civilization crumbles and seeing it all and you know it that that should

01:26:02 ◼   ► be that should be interesting and then the other zombie show that was shown at Comic

01:26:07 ◼   ► Con is Ash versus Evil Dead which is coming to stars I think and and to either have your

01:26:13 ◼   ► R-rated movies. This is the R-rated TV show, essentially, but it's the it's a TV

01:26:20 ◼   ► show sequel to the Evil Dead movies with starring Bruce Campbell. So if you like

01:26:24 ◼   ► your gory, you know, gory zombie movies in the style of the Sam Raimi, Bruce

01:26:29 ◼   ► Campbell, Evil Dead, Army of Darkness kind of films, there's gonna be a show of it

01:26:35 ◼   ► that looked pretty funny and super violent and gory but also really funny

01:26:39 ◼   ► which is I think what you would expect from that.

01:26:41 ◼   ► The only other thing I wanted to mention is two of my favorite comic books from my childhood,

01:26:45 ◼   ► The Micronauts and ROM, were teased from IDW Publishing.

01:26:50 ◼   ► And I had long conversations with comic book people on Twitter about this because those

01:26:54 ◼   ► are toys that became comics, and the challenge there is that the toy intellectual property

01:26:58 ◼   ► and the comic book storylines are owned by different people.

01:27:03 ◼   ► So the things that we remember nostalgically from those properties are problematic because

01:27:10 ◼   ► Marvel Comics owns, like, with the Micronauts, the toys and the look of the toys are owned

01:27:15 ◼   ► by the toy company, which can, you know, and the holding company for the intellectual property.

01:27:19 ◼   ► So they can be licensed.

01:27:21 ◼   ► But all of the other stuff that went into that universe that was created just for the

01:27:25 ◼   ► comic book is still owned by Marvel.

01:27:27 ◼   ► And so this happened once before where they tried to do a new Micronauts comic book, but

01:27:31 ◼   ► all they could use were the images of the toys.

01:27:33 ◼   ► And so they had to create new characters and new settings.

01:27:36 ◼   ► And it was weird and not really ideal

01:27:39 ◼   ► because it kind of blows off the nostalgia factor.

01:27:42 ◼   ► You can't even start from a nostalgic place

01:27:43 ◼   ► and then tell new stories

01:27:45 ◼   ► 'cause you don't own half of the nostalgia.

01:27:47 ◼   ► And the Rom space knight thing is even worse

01:27:49 ◼   ► because that was literally just a plastic toy of a robot

01:27:52 ◼   ► called Rom space knight.

01:27:54 ◼   ► And that was from Mattel or Parker brothers.

01:27:58 ◼   ► And he had three different guns that he could use.

01:28:00 ◼   ► So you had like a scanner and a neutralizer

01:28:02 ◼   ► and something else and a translator.

01:28:04 ◼   ► Everything else that people remember,

01:28:06 ◼   ► because the toy came and went in a year,

01:28:08 ◼   ► but the comic lasted for like five or six years.

01:28:11 ◼   ► Everything everybody is fond of that character

01:28:13 ◼   ► comes from the comics.

01:28:15 ◼   ► So if IDW publishing only has the rights to the toy,

01:28:19 ◼   ► they can create a comic based on that toy,

01:28:22 ◼   ► but they can't use any of the other stuff

01:28:24 ◼   ► that everybody remembers, the supporting cast, the villain.

01:28:29 ◼   ► It's just the human version of the robot guy,

01:28:33 ◼   ► can't, not owned by them.

01:28:34 ◼   ► So Moises Chuyang tells me to be patient

01:28:37 ◼   ► and that it's possible that IDW is actually also trying

01:28:40 ◼   ► to license stuff from Marvel comics.

01:28:43 ◼   ► They've worked with them on stuff in the past

01:28:45 ◼   ► that there might actually be more to this story

01:28:47 ◼   ► that there, that IDW as a publisher says,

01:28:49 ◼   ► look, if Marvel doesn't wanna buy this stuff,

01:28:51 ◼   ► maybe we'll buy it and we'll license stuff from Marvel

01:28:54 ◼   ► and then we'll put it together.

01:28:55 ◼   ► But it's just a funny, this is one of those examples

01:28:58 ◼   ► a beloved thing from my childhood that is out of print and can't be brought back into print because

01:29:03 ◼   ► the rights have kind of torn apart and expired. So, um, but there was a tease and all it said was

01:29:10 ◼   ► 2016 Micronauts ROM, uh, IDW Publishing. So we'll see whether they dash my hopes. Um, I, I hope

01:29:18 ◼   ► Marvel would pick up the license because then they own everything and they could do, they could use

01:29:23 ◼   ► those old comics as a starting point. But, you know, we'll, we'll see. I'm going to listen to

01:29:27 ◼   ► to Moises and remain open-minded about it. And yeah, and all the Doctor Who people were

01:29:32 ◼   ► in San Diego too, which I am always amused to see English people running around San Diego,

01:29:36 ◼   ► because there's a lot of "Ah, the sun, the sun!" But they just announced the air date and showed

01:29:41 ◼   ► a little trailer for the new season of Doctor Who. But I just, I do enjoy that because a lot

01:29:45 ◼   ► of times you get these British actors who have never been to something on the scale of Comic-Con

01:29:50 ◼   ► and they're kind of amazed that, you know, how is it that all these thousands of Americans are

01:29:55 ◼   ► excited about our TV show because they when they're in Cardiff making Doctor Who you know

01:30:00 ◼   ► they there are some fans around but you know it's nothing like the scale of going to Comic-Con so I

01:30:06 ◼   ► always I enjoy that more than the actual panels sometimes it's just these people who have never

01:30:10 ◼   ► been exposed to how insane Comic-Con is and and and that's you that's usually the British actors.

01:30:19 ◼   ► Also Sherlock.

01:30:21 ◼   ► Yeah

01:30:24 ◼   ► They did have a teaser trailer for the

01:30:26 ◼   ► For the Christmas special of Sherlock which is not part of the modern Sherlock, but it's the same actors

01:30:32 ◼   ► But they're in the you know whatever it is Victorian the classic Sherlock Holmes era for the Christmas special

01:30:38 ◼   ► I have unpopular things to say about that trailer

01:30:41 ◼   ► Which is it looked to me like a like a Saturday Night Live sketch

01:30:44 ◼   ► And I thought it was painful, and I fear that it will be a terrible thing

01:30:48 ◼   ► I couldn't disagree anymore on that one.

01:30:52 ◼   ► That's fine, that's fine. It just hit me wrong. It hit me as a whole series of jokes that are like,

01:30:57 ◼   ► "See? We're back in the past now!"

01:31:00 ◼   ► And it just didn't hit me right at all.

01:31:04 ◼   ► But I'll watch it. I like Sherlock.

01:31:08 ◼   ► Yeah. I'm sad that you didn't like it.

01:31:12 ◼   ► Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. But I didn't.

01:31:17 ◼   ► I thought it was too much. I thought I worry that Sherlock is is is getting a little too smug with its success

01:31:23 ◼   ► and

01:31:25 ◼   ► That that trailer didn't didn't convince me otherwise, but you know again

01:31:29 ◼   ► I like the show so much that I'm gonna watch it regardless and I hope it's good

01:31:32 ◼   ► Cool. Should we just do a couple of ask upgrades before we sign off today? Let's do it

01:31:39 ◼   ► Jason could you please tell me who is bringing ask upgrade to us this week? Ask ask upgrade Myke

01:31:46 ◼   ► Brought to you by our good friends at Stamps.com.

01:31:50 ◼   ► Getting your mailing and shipping done as a small business,

01:31:52 ◼   ► it can seem like a no-win situation.

01:31:54 ◼   ► You go to the post office,

01:31:55 ◼   ► I hate going to the post office,

01:31:56 ◼   ► there are people there,

01:31:57 ◼   ► I have to wait in line,

01:31:58 ◼   ► it takes up time.

01:32:00 ◼   ► If you are thinking of leasing a postage meter,

01:32:02 ◼   ► you can do that, but it's expensive.

01:32:04 ◼   ► You often have to make multi-year commitments,

01:32:05 ◼   ► there are lots of hidden fees.

01:32:07 ◼   ► Or you can take a third path,

01:32:10 ◼   ► away from the post office, away from the postage meter,

01:32:12 ◼   ► and that is to use Stamps.com.

01:32:14 ◼   ► With Stamps.com, you buy and print official US postage

01:32:17 ◼   ► for any letter or package right from your desk

01:32:19 ◼   ► using your own computer and printer.

01:32:21 ◼   ► And Stamps.com is better and easier to use

01:32:23 ◼   ► than a postage meter at just a fraction of the cost.

01:32:26 ◼   ► You can save up to 80% with Stamps.com

01:32:28 ◼   ► compared to a postage meter,

01:32:29 ◼   ► and you will avoid dealing with those humans

01:32:32 ◼   ► in the line at the post office,

01:32:34 ◼   ► which you can't even put a price on that.

01:32:36 ◼   ► Stamps.com costs $15.99 a month.

01:32:39 ◼   ► That's it.

01:32:40 ◼   ► There's no long-term multi-year commitment

01:32:42 ◼   ► like a postage meter.

01:32:43 ◼   ► There are no markups on postage.

01:32:44 ◼   ► You'll even get some special postage discounts with Stamps.com.

01:32:47 ◼   ► So it's really a no brainer.

01:32:49 ◼   ► I've been using Stamps.com to mail various boxes and things

01:32:52 ◼   ► to Dan Morin across the country

01:32:55 ◼   ► and to some other people around.

01:32:57 ◼   ► Couldn't be easier.

01:32:59 ◼   ► Use their little postal, USB postal scale

01:33:01 ◼   ► to weigh my little box, print out something on my printer,

01:33:04 ◼   ► stick it on, put it outside,

01:33:06 ◼   ► or walk it down to the post office

01:33:07 ◼   ► and just leave it in the parcel drop and not get in line.

01:33:10 ◼   ► Either one of those things works.

01:33:12 ◼   ► They whisk the packages away

01:33:13 ◼   ► and they reach their destination.

01:33:14 ◼   ► And I can go on being a misanthrope

01:33:16 ◼   ► and just staying in my house.

01:33:18 ◼   ► So right now there's a special offer for stamps.com.

01:33:21 ◼   ► Use promo code upgrade.

01:33:23 ◼   ► You'll get a no risk trial.

01:33:24 ◼   ► There's $110 bonus offer, including a digital scale

01:33:27 ◼   ► and up to $55 free postage.

01:33:29 ◼   ► So don't wait, go to stamps.com.

01:33:31 ◼   ► Before you do anything else,

01:33:32 ◼   ► click on the microphone at the top of the homepage

01:33:34 ◼   ► and type in upgrade.

01:33:36 ◼   ► That's stamps.com, enter upgrade.

01:33:39 ◼   ► Thank you so much to stamps.com

01:33:40 ◼   ► for supporting this show, all of Relay FM.

01:33:43 ◼   ► and #AskUpgrade.

01:33:47 ◼   ► Martin asks, and he asks me this question, I think Martin is very angry,

01:33:51 ◼   ► "If Zane Lowe is so great, how come he talks over the records or tracks and

01:33:56 ◼   ► isn't he meant to be in the peel mold?"

01:33:59 ◼   ► The talking over the tracks

01:34:03 ◼   ► is a style that Zane implements.

01:34:07 ◼   ► I quite like it. I think I mentioned this last week, I like that style.

01:34:13 ◼   ► He doesn't ruin the songs but every now and then he'll mention something if he's excited

01:34:17 ◼   ► about a song or he wants you to listen to a specific part and that reminds me of what

01:34:21 ◼   ► it's like to listen to music with a friend when you're listening to something like "Oh!

01:34:26 ◼   ► Listen to this bit, this is really good!"

01:34:27 ◼   ► That's kind of what Zane Lowe reminds me of and it is that infectious excitement that

01:34:32 ◼   ► I like about him and I think when he's talking about the Peel mold he's talking about John

01:34:36 ◼   ► Peel and how great John Peel was at discovering music which Zane Lowe still is.

01:34:42 ◼   ► presenting style is different and as I said last week I think I really all make

01:34:47 ◼   ► me have a last week before I really love Zayn's style of just being super pumped

01:34:51 ◼   ► up and excited one time because it makes me excited about the music he's excited

01:34:55 ◼   ► about so I don't think that it doesn't mean he's great I think it just means he

01:35:00 ◼   ► has a different style that he implements and if you don't like it that's fine

01:35:03 ◼   ► just listen to the playlists so when when I when I mean I mentioned this

01:35:08 ◼   ► last week and I mentioned at the beginning of this show too, when I say

01:35:12 ◼   ► that listening to a Beats 1 show is an entertainment program and it's not just

01:35:16 ◼   ► sort of you're playing a song and then playing another song, this is part of

01:35:20 ◼   ► what I mean, which is if you're there to appreciate the music and the DJs are

01:35:25 ◼   ► supposed to get out of the way, this is not for you. You should just listen to

01:35:28 ◼   ► the playlists because they play those songs and there are no DJs. And that's

01:35:34 ◼   ► sort of how I came to terms with this because I've never liked it when DJs talk over songs.

01:35:39 ◼   ► It's like what's it about you or the song? And the answer is it's about them. That is the answer.

01:35:45 ◼   ► And if it's never about them to you and it's about the song, don't listen to this because that's not

01:35:49 ◼   ► what it is. Like when, because we were talking about last week about about, oh who's the DJ in

01:35:55 ◼   ► London? Julie, Adonuga. When we listened to her show last week,

01:36:01 ◼   ► that was, you know, the music was coming and going and she was talking and it was

01:36:09 ◼   ► like you can either say she is getting in the way of the music or you can say

01:36:12 ◼   ► this is this is about experiencing this entertainment with with her as our guide

01:36:18 ◼   ► and she's talking to us throughout it and if you if you are into that then

01:36:23 ◼   ► this is the show for you but again if you if you want them out of the way this

01:36:28 ◼   ► this is not what, that's not the purpose here. It's just not the purpose of those

01:36:32 ◼   ► kinds of shows. I don't love DJs talking over music. That comes from my history as

01:36:38 ◼   ► being one of those people, like John Syracuse has said, one of those people who

01:36:41 ◼   ► pressed record on the radio to get a version of the song that you liked when

01:36:45 ◼   ► it when it got played on the radio back when I was a kid. But once I came to

01:36:50 ◼   ► accept that this is just not what these shows are, then I kind of made my peace

01:36:55 ◼   ► with it. It's like I'm not here for the unbroken pristine version of these songs

01:37:00 ◼   ► I'm here for this experience with this person.

01:37:04 ◼   ► Adam asked "was about to take a trip home from a nearby city and Apple Music

01:37:11 ◼   ► recommended a playlist called take a chill drive is that a coincidence?" I'm

01:37:17 ◼   ► gonna say yeah however yesterday when I was about to start cooking and I

01:37:23 ◼   ► was given two different playlists with cooking themes. I mean I'm assuming it's

01:37:28 ◼   ► just guessing time of day right and it's just throwing up stuff that it thinks

01:37:32 ◼   ► might be a thing but found it very very peculiar that it's that it seems to be

01:37:37 ◼   ► Apple music knows what I'm doing and is suggesting music specifically but hey

01:37:41 ◼   ► very interesting I mean I don't know but...

01:37:45 ◼   ► All right I have a um I found they had a what family game night playlist that was

01:37:51 ◼   ► surfaced for me that I saved because we do have a family game night and I

01:37:55 ◼   ► thought that was really fun that they had a little playlist for family

01:38:00 ◼   ► game night so I saved it and we will when we next have family game night

01:38:05 ◼   ► we will we'll play that playlist.

01:38:07 ◼   ► Yep, it's awesome.

01:38:09 ◼   ► And lastly, @Cgomas on Twitter, what is the consensus of securing individual apps with

01:38:17 ◼   ► touch ID if your phone itself locks using it at a reasonable interval. For some

01:38:22 ◼   ► reason I've read this and was like "oh yeah that is weird" like just immediately when

01:38:27 ◼   ► I heard it I was like "that is strange like I have like a bunch of apps and I

01:38:31 ◼   ► choose to turn on touch ID but I have my phone lock after like two minutes so

01:38:35 ◼   ► it's not you know a crazy amount of time." However there are a couple of apps that

01:38:40 ◼   ► I have on my phone that if I gave somebody my phone to look at I wouldn't

01:38:44 ◼   ► want them opening and those are the ones like you know it seems to be that there

01:38:48 ◼   ► is an overlap between those kinds of apps and the apps that also have touch ID

01:38:52 ◼   ► or password support like we use FreshBooks I don't want people going in

01:38:56 ◼   ► there day one I don't want people going in there you know etc. One password. Yeah

01:39:01 ◼   ► maybe in the biggest one I don't want people going in there so there is there is an

01:39:05 ◼   ► element of it but it is funny that like you know you have whole phone locks but

01:39:10 ◼   ► yet you still have individual locks with the same password, effectively your thumbprint,

01:39:15 ◼   ► in different apps. It's, you know, it's just it was just an interesting thing that when I read it,

01:39:19 ◼   ► I was like, "I've never considered that before." But there's a special class of apps that,

01:39:24 ◼   ► that, right, I think all apps expect that you're going to decide whether you want to lock your

01:39:29 ◼   ► phone or not. Yeah, and, and like, they don't need special security, most of them, because they know

01:39:34 ◼   ► that you're just gonna do a system-level set of security settings, right? And then there are

01:39:39 ◼   ► there are those apps that are like, you know,

01:39:41 ◼   ► we need more security than that.

01:39:43 ◼   ► We demand, we're not content with,

01:39:46 ◼   ► if the phone's unlocked, you can get to this stuff.

01:39:48 ◼   ► And they put a password in front of it.

01:39:50 ◼   ► And then the nice thing is you can put Touch ID

01:39:52 ◼   ► in front of it instead, and that makes it easier.

01:39:55 ◼   ► But I think that's the rationale is that there's some stuff

01:39:57 ◼   ► that yeah, if you unlock a phone and show something

01:39:59 ◼   ► to a friend that they're not gonna take it

01:40:01 ◼   ► and open up your passwords.

01:40:03 ◼   ► Or you can leave your phone unlocked

01:40:07 ◼   ► and only those things will be locked.

01:40:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just an interesting,

01:40:15 ◼   ► it's an extra layer of security,

01:40:16 ◼   ► but as you say, for the apps that do it,

01:40:18 ◼   ► they're the ones that you want it for, really.

01:40:21 ◼   ► So, makes sense.

01:40:23 ◼   ► Right, so that's it for this week's episode.

01:40:26 ◼   ► If you wanna find our show notes,

01:40:27 ◼   ► you can go online and find them at relay.fm/upgrades/45.

01:40:32 ◼   ► Thanks again to our sponsors this week,

01:40:34 ◼   ► the great people at the New Mexico Tea Company,

01:40:36 ◼   ► Squarespace and Stamps.com. If you want to find us online you can find Jason at SixColors.com

01:40:42 ◼   ► and he is also @JSnell on Twitter and I am @IMyke and we will be back next time. Thanks

01:40:51 ◼   ► so much for listening. Say goodbye Jason Snell. Goodbye Jason Snell.

01:40:54 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:40:57 ◼   ► [ Music ]