Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 46. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14 ◼   ► Lynda.com where you can instantly stream thousands of courses created by industry experts,

00:00:19 ◼   ► text expander from Smile, type more with less effort, and Fracture. Photos printed in vivid

00:00:25 ◼   ► color directly on glass. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by the wonderful Mr. Jason

00:00:31 ◼   ► Snell.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Oh, that's very nice of you to say. Hi, Myke. You are pretty wonderful yourself. Welcome

00:00:36 ◼   ► to the Mutual Admiration Society, I suppose. How are you?

00:00:40 ◼   ► I am very well, sir. How are you?

00:00:41 ◼   ► Good, good. Very good. Have a good... Have a weekend, actual weekend, which I very rarely

00:00:47 ◼   ► have. It was... That was very nice. My wife and I are here. The kids are coming back in

00:00:51 ◼   ► couple of days but they're with their grandparents and we I didn't have an

00:00:56 ◼   ► incomparable episode this weekend so I you know that's hours of editing that I

00:01:00 ◼   ► often do on Saturday mornings gone I only had I did have a podcast this

00:01:05 ◼   ► weekend but it was early on Saturday morning and then nothing else the rest

00:01:08 ◼   ► of the weekend and it was great it was like this must be what we this is why

00:01:12 ◼   ► people like weekends so it was it was a good rest it was a good break.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Did you have a lot of weekends when you were at IDG? Or you were still doing all the

00:01:22 ◼   ► incomparable stuff? Well that's exactly it, all the side project stuff. I mean

00:01:25 ◼   ► Saturday morning is podcast morning for me, you know, generally I will make, you

00:01:33 ◼   ► know, breakfast when the kids are here especially, I'll make breakfast and all

00:01:37 ◼   ► that and we'll do that and then I'll go out and you know I'll spend three or

00:01:39 ◼   ► four hours working on the incomparable and there's often a podcast recording

00:01:44 ◼   ► session in there and yeah that was true at IDG as well. Plus you know stuff comes

00:01:47 ◼   ► up or I've got ongoing stories or things for IDG, you know. Yeah, I mean, it's not that

00:01:52 ◼   ► different than it was where the weekend is interspersed. I've just got work stuff interspersed

00:01:58 ◼   ► with life stuff and that's just how it is and that's fine. But this weekend was nice

00:02:02 ◼   ► in the sense that I sort of said, "No, I'm not gonna do that this weekend. This is our

00:02:08 ◼   ► last chance to get a couple of days with kind of--we had nothing else on the calendar. Usually

00:02:13 ◼   ► there's take a kid somewhere and do this or take the kids this way," and there was nothing

00:02:17 ◼   ► and it was one of those moments of like, "Hey, let's celebrate having nothing on the calendar

00:02:21 ◼   ► by not putting anything on the calendar." So we didn't. It's not bad.

00:02:25 ◼   ► >> CHESNEY Not bad. Yeah, my weekends tend to be a balance of life and business, but

00:02:31 ◼   ► it tends to work out pretty well, actually.

00:02:33 ◼   ► >> MARTIN I mean, we still did stuff like, um, we went for some walks and, uh, we, uh,

00:02:39 ◼   ► we did a bunch of house stuff, so like painted, we painted a lot of stuff, like touched up

00:02:44 ◼   ► a bunch of paint in the house and painted some furniture and bought some

00:02:47 ◼   ► bought my son a new desk and we did stuff but it wasn't you know we wasn't

00:02:52 ◼   ► the usual stuff and that was good. I plugged in I rewired my TV with these

00:02:58 ◼   ► new HDMI cables because I got frustrated by how our TV was set up it was really

00:03:04 ◼   ► confusing and I couldn't tell what was plugged into where and I bought all these

00:03:07 ◼   ► color we were longer they need to be longer and not broken because some of

00:03:11 ◼   ► them were kind of questionable in and I threw them away and they need to be colored so that

00:03:17 ◼   ► I now know like my TiVo is hooked up with the red cable.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Did you go with the gold-plated option? No, I got a reasonably priced, mono-priced

00:03:27 ◼   ► set of cables but they have colors so that makes me happy. So yeah, red for the TiVo.

00:03:36 ◼   ► Shall we move into your very favorite of all verticals?

00:03:40 ◼   ► Well it is the container in which all verticals reside, which is follow up slash out.

00:03:47 ◼   ► Let's do that now.

00:03:49 ◼   ► So Agus wrote in about our discussion last week in Ask Upgrade about Touch ID in apps,

00:03:56 ◼   ► and this is what Agus had to say.

00:03:58 ◼   ► There's another reason that you may have not mentioned about why Touch ID exists in applications,

00:04:02 ◼   ► because we were questioning as to whether you need it if you lock your phone.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Apps that use Touch ID also have access to the Safari Keychain.

00:04:11 ◼   ► This means that apps that require a username and password to access a web component, such

00:04:15 ◼   ► as the Backblaze app and also sections of the Apple Store and Amazon apps, can retrieve

00:04:19 ◼   ► these details by using Touch ID instead of having to ask every time they're launched,

00:04:23 ◼   ► assuming the login details are obviously saved in the Keychain.

00:04:27 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a good tip, Angus.

00:04:31 ◼   ► I've noticed this with, I mean, this is why you lock your phone too, because Safari won't

00:04:36 ◼   ► let you have access to Safari Keychain

00:04:38 ◼   ► unless you've got a lock on it.

00:04:39 ◼   ► And I was just, it can be really convenient.

00:04:43 ◼   ► I was on this iPad 2 that I'm using,

00:04:45 ◼   ► iPad Air 2 that I'm using for iOS 9.

00:04:47 ◼   ► I realized I didn't have Safari stuff synced.

00:04:52 ◼   ► And once I did that and my password began,

00:04:55 ◼   ► started just showing up everywhere, it's very convenient.

00:04:57 ◼   ► Even if you use one password, having stuff saved

00:05:00 ◼   ► in the Safari Keychain can be incredibly convenient

00:05:03 ◼   ► because it just auto fills it

00:05:05 ◼   ► and you don't even need to look it up.

00:05:07 ◼   ► And I do that for some stuff.

00:05:09 ◼   ► And so, yeah, you would want that to be locked away,

00:05:12 ◼   ► obviously, so that's another good reason.

00:05:15 ◼   ► I am happy to have more reasons to use Touch ID.

00:05:18 ◼   ► I wish Touch ID was everywhere,

00:05:22 ◼   ► because it's so much easier to just verify it

00:05:25 ◼   ► with my thumbprint than to have to deal with typing

00:05:28 ◼   ► a password in somewhere.

00:05:29 ◼   ► I'd love it to be everywhere.

00:05:32 ◼   ► - I wish it was on my Mac.

00:05:33 ◼   ► - I was thinking about that the other day.

00:05:35 ◼   ► I was typing something in and thinking,

00:05:37 ◼   ► this Mac's never gonna have it

00:05:39 ◼   ► 'cause it would be a new Mac hardware,

00:05:40 ◼   ► but I would love to have that.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Or somebody was speculating,

00:05:44 ◼   ► I remember reading somewhere,

00:05:45 ◼   ► somebody was speculating of like a new Magic Trackpad

00:05:47 ◼   ► that maybe was Force Touch,

00:05:49 ◼   ► but that maybe it would also have a Touch ID sensor

00:05:52 ◼   ► somewhere in it.

00:05:53 ◼   ► That would be cool.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Although I don't know whether securely,

00:05:57 ◼   ► whether you can do something like Touch ID

00:06:00 ◼   ► with a wireless device or not,

00:06:03 ◼   ► 'cause there might be some man in the middle

00:06:05 ◼   ► or some other kind of security problems there.

00:06:08 ◼   ► But yeah, it would be nice to do something like Touch ID

00:06:10 ◼   ► on the Mac just to not have to type in that password

00:06:13 ◼   ► because my voice is my passport, verify me.

00:06:16 ◼   ► That's from sneakers, Myke.

00:06:19 ◼   ► - Indeed, I know that very well.

00:06:20 ◼   ► - Good.

00:06:22 ◼   ► - Will has provided another way

00:06:25 ◼   ► in which you can shuffle artists

00:06:27 ◼   ► and this also will provide a little bit of clarification

00:06:30 ◼   ► that I don't think I was completely clear on.

00:06:32 ◼   ► So if you remember in previous episodes we've spoken about the fact that you can't very easily play artists

00:06:39 ◼   ► like you just shuffle all songs in an artist if they have more than two albums in

00:06:43 ◼   ► Apple music if you have more than two albums specific artist the option to shuffle all songs goes away

00:06:48 ◼   ► But we'll discovered that if you go to the artist view

00:06:51 ◼   ► So you've got the list of all artists and you tap on the thumbnail of the artwork

00:06:56 ◼   ► It just starts playing all songs and then you can shuffle them. This is exactly what I was looking for

00:07:01 ◼   ► However, I now know that it's not what Jason was looking for at all.

00:07:05 ◼   ► And I think me, along with many other people, have missed this.

00:07:09 ◼   ► So I'm going to try and sum this up for you, Jason.

00:07:12 ◼   ► Because I'm worried that we've not been able to get this locked down.

00:07:16 ◼   ► What I am looking for is I, for example, have Kings of Leon.

00:07:18 ◼   ► I have added all of Kings of Leon's albums into my Apple Music collection.

00:07:23 ◼   ► So they are there.

00:07:24 ◼   ► So now I can go in, press the album artwork on the artist view, and it will start playing

00:07:28 ◼   ► them all.

00:07:29 ◼   ► you're looking for is a way to search for Kings of Leon and then shuffle

00:07:34 ◼   ► shuffle play all of their albums without adding them to your collection.

00:07:38 ◼   ► Right, that was what I was looking for is how do I how do I go to an

00:07:42 ◼   ► artist that I'm interested in hearing from and not all artists have a playlist

00:07:46 ◼   ► that says intro to this artist right how so how do I listen to songs of theirs

00:07:54 ◼   ► and one of my thoughts is just why don't I just shuffle through their albums just

00:07:58 ◼   ► you know, just shuffle all their songs. Now there's problems with that because there's a lot of junk,

00:08:03 ◼   ► duplicates, special editions, things like that, but that was just my thought was,

00:08:08 ◼   ► when I go to any artist I should be able to say, you know, play me some stuff from this artist.

00:08:12 ◼   ► And you can't do that unless you add them. I mean, you could play stuff, but it doesn't seem like you

00:08:19 ◼   ► can play, like, show me a sample or just show me a random collection of this artist. Instead,

00:08:24 ◼   ► you need to either add them to your library, or if you're lucky, there's a playlist and then that

00:08:28 ◼   ► solves it, because then there's a, you know, intro to artist name. Like, intro to Kings of Leon is

00:08:33 ◼   ► probably a playlist, and I could go there and play that not knowing them, and those playlists are

00:08:39 ◼   ► really designed for me, because you know them well, and so it wouldn't be—I see those playlists on

00:08:44 ◼   ► artists I know, and I'm like, "No, I could make my own playlist, thank you." But for me, as somebody

00:08:49 ◼   ► who doesn't know an artist, that would be really useful. But sometimes they're not there, and then

00:08:53 ◼   ► then I end up in this situation where I don't think you can go into like their list of songs

00:08:59 ◼   ► and just shuffle that.

00:09:01 ◼   ► What you could do is, I was just looking this up, you could search for the artist name and

00:09:06 ◼   ► then in the search results, click on the heading of songs and you can play it that way. But

00:09:13 ◼   ► the problem with that is it plays absolutely everything including all of the album songs,

00:09:20 ◼   ► of the singles from those albums all live is everything right that's the

00:09:24 ◼   ► problem but it is possible to select somebody like that and just play

00:09:30 ◼   ► everything however I just did a search for Alabama shakes which is a which is a

00:09:35 ◼   ► bad that I quite like but the problem is as you go further down there is stuff

00:09:39 ◼   ► that is not Alabama shakes in here so actually that won't work hmm this is a

00:09:46 ◼   ► conundrum. Right, because it's finding everything that matches... yeah, I

00:09:50 ◼   ► saw that too, where I searched for Genesis for a forthcoming episode of a

00:09:57 ◼   ► different podcast, because I was listening to some Genesis in advance of

00:10:01 ◼   ► doing that podcast, and I could play from that songs list, but that songs

00:10:07 ◼   ► list also contained all the songs with the word Genesis in it, so it wasn't

00:10:13 ◼   ► it wasn't an artist shuffle at that point.

00:10:16 ◼   ► But I could go into that artist, I just don't, you know,

00:10:19 ◼   ► this is, what I'm really saying is,

00:10:22 ◼   ► maybe what I'm asking for is a programmatic playlist,

00:10:25 ◼   ► if you don't have a really good intro playlist,

00:10:27 ◼   ► give me a, you know, most popular songs

00:10:32 ◼   ► by this artist playlist or something, 'cause I--

00:10:35 ◼   ► - Some artists do have that, so again,

00:10:37 ◼   ► like Zalabamushakes is an example,

00:10:39 ◼   ► they have a, it just says top songs,

00:10:42 ◼   ► just has like seven songs, but it's not a playlist, it's just the most popular songs

00:10:45 ◼   ► by the artist. Right, so that's, I want more of that, because

00:10:49 ◼   ► for me, I hear about a band, I know nothing about them, I've only heard one song by them

00:10:52 ◼   ► in some other playlist, I go, "Oh, they're interesting, what do I do?" And right now,

00:10:56 ◼   ► it seems like what I really need to do if they don't have a playlist that's been curated

00:11:01 ◼   ► for them is sort of just pick an album at random and start playing it. But what if I

00:11:06 ◼   ► to add like three albums and shuffle them. I can do it, but it's more work. So I just

00:11:12 ◼   ► feel like that's a discovery thing that I have, that I desire, that I would like to

00:11:17 ◼   ► see. But, you know, it's early yet. Oh, and listener Rich also suggested, and I think

00:11:24 ◼   ► this actually does work, is use Siri and tell Siri to play music from a band and it will

00:11:28 ◼   ► find 20 songs by that artist and play them.

00:11:35 ◼   ► So it turns out that there are many, many ways to pronounce the name of the T that we

00:11:41 ◼   ► were talking about during the New Mexico Tea Company.

00:11:42 ◼   ► The South African Tea?

00:11:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:11:45 ◼   ► So many people wrote in, many people wrote in, many people were angry.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And there are two different ways to pronounce the T which is spelled R-O-O-I-B-O-S.

00:11:55 ◼   ► There is an English way and a Dutch way.

00:11:57 ◼   ► So I'm going to do my best here.

00:11:59 ◼   ► The English way is "Roybos" and the Dutch way is "Royboush".

00:12:05 ◼   ► Alright.

00:12:06 ◼   ► But many people call it Redbush, because that's what that translates to.

00:12:09 ◼   ► That's what it means, yeah.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Yep, Redbush tea.

00:12:11 ◼   ► So, there you go.

00:12:12 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to the Wikipedia page, which has the audio clips, which I attempted

00:12:19 ◼   ► to pronounce in my own way.

00:12:22 ◼   ► And it's actually "Wictionary" rather than Wikipedia.

00:12:25 ◼   ► And it's still pronounced "Hibiscus".

00:12:28 ◼   ► Hibiscus.

00:12:29 ◼   ► No, "Hibiscus".

00:12:30 ◼   ► Hibiscus.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Hibiscus.

00:12:32 ◼   ► Hibiscus.

00:12:33 ◼   ► No, yeah, well, it's all Hibiscus.

00:12:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, all hibiscus is so close.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Hibiscus, I think you know more,

00:12:40 ◼   ► especially if you're near Hawaii,

00:12:43 ◼   ► 'cause it's a very common thing in Hawaii

00:12:45 ◼   ► and I've been to Hawaii many times.

00:12:46 ◼   ► You've never been to Hawaii, right?

00:12:48 ◼   ► - I've never been to Hawaii.

00:12:49 ◼   ► It's high on my list of places to go though.

00:12:52 ◼   ► - You should, yeah, you should go sometime.

00:12:54 ◼   ► That's the kind of thing that,

00:12:55 ◼   ► given how far away it is for you,

00:12:57 ◼   ► that's the kind of thing where if you are going

00:13:01 ◼   ► to the west coast of North America,

00:13:04 ◼   ► planning it into something like that before or after

00:13:07 ◼   ► or during a trip to the west coast of North America

00:13:10 ◼   ► is one way to fit it in.

00:13:13 ◼   ► 'Cause it is just,

00:13:14 ◼   ► for people who don't live in California, essentially,

00:13:16 ◼   ► it is out in the middle of nowhere

00:13:17 ◼   ► because it's in the middle of the Pacific Ocean,

00:13:19 ◼   ► but it's great.

00:13:20 ◼   ► I love it.

00:13:21 ◼   ► It's my favorite place in the world.

00:13:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's high on the list.

00:13:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, get there someday.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Volcanoes, you know.

00:13:27 ◼   ► - My favorite. - Lava.

00:13:30 ◼   ► I love it. You should say, um, tell, say, I love some lava.

00:13:37 ◼   ► I love some lava. Okay. It's just fun. It's more fun English

00:13:41 ◼   ► accent. Anyway. Oh, are you a lava lover?

00:13:45 ◼   ► A lava lover, yep. Okay. We got a lot of feedback about the space

00:13:51 ◼   ► stuff we talked about. I pelted you with space facts, which I have to say, um, I have been

00:13:57 ◼   ► doing to people around me since I was in first grade. I remember very distinctly that I got

00:14:01 ◼   ► some book about the planets in first grade and actually like would read facts from the

00:14:05 ◼   ► book to my classmates in first grade and it is a wonder that they didn't just like punch

00:14:10 ◼   ► me in the face and throw me down in the dirt. So I've been doing it since then so I you

00:14:15 ◼   ► got to you got to hear it from me and then later in the week you got to hear it from

00:14:18 ◼   ► Steven on connected because you have the pleasure to host podcasts with two people who are space

00:14:26 ◼   ► fans. So you got it twice. I really enjoyed it though because I, you know, like all nerds,

00:14:34 ◼   ► space is interesting to me. I've just never spent a lot of time learning about it, you

00:14:39 ◼   ► know? Yeah, so we were hopefully able to kind of boil it down and make it, you know, make

00:14:45 ◼   ► it understandable and interesting. We got some really nice feedback from people about

00:14:49 ◼   ► it which was great. I did make a mistake which I heard about several times because that's

00:14:53 ◼   ► what happens with podcasts is you make the mistake once, and then as people listen to

00:14:57 ◼   ► it over the course of the week, they all tell you that you're wrong. Yay! New Horizons,

00:15:02 ◼   ► when it left the Earth, was the fastest launch of an object going that we've sent out into

00:15:10 ◼   ► the solar system. But it is not the fastest moving object because both of the Voyager

00:15:17 ◼   ► probes at the very least, there may actually be some others too, but certainly the Voyagers

00:15:22 ◼   ► are going faster. They went around Jupiter and Saturn, and when you go around a big planet

00:15:28 ◼   ► like that, it usually is increasing your speed and pushing you on to the next one. They have

00:15:33 ◼   ► a sort of gravity assist thing that happens, and it's complicated. So I'm not going to

00:15:38 ◼   ► talk about it too much because then I'll have to correct that next week. But the idea is

00:15:43 ◼   ► the Voyagers are going faster. So New Horizons is never going to catch up. The Voyager 2,

00:15:48 ◼   ► I think will be the furthest out object that we've made for, you know, the foreseeable

00:15:54 ◼   ► future. So we got a nice bit of feedback from Andy, listener Andy, who enjoyed our accidental

00:16:01 ◼   ► astronomy and asked if there were any beginner level astronomy podcasts to recommend. Back

00:16:07 ◼   ► in the early days of podcasting, I actually listened to these podcasts like 2008, 2009,

00:16:12 ◼   ► somewhere in there, that are by a guy named Richard Pogge, who is a astronomy professor

00:16:17 ◼   ► at Ohio State University, and we'll put the link to his page in the show notes. It's an

00:16:22 ◼   ► old school, it's like a tilde, it's got a tilde in the directory name, it is old school

00:16:27 ◼   ► web, but it's got links to, he did, he recorded himself with several of his introductory astronomy

00:16:35 ◼   ► classes. There are three that I listen to that are all still up from 2008, 2007, 2009.

00:16:43 ◼   ► And they're in, I think they're in the iTunes podcast directory, but he's also got the direct

00:16:46 ◼   ► links on his site. So we'll put that in the show notes. And then he's, Pogge, P-O-G-G-E,

00:16:51 ◼   ► he actually has a more recent course in iTunes U that you can also listen to. I think he's

00:16:55 ◼   ► a really good teacher, which is not always the case with professors at major universities.

00:17:00 ◼   ► They're there because they're good at research and getting grants and things like that, and

00:17:04 ◼   ► the teaching is often secondary. But Pogge, I thought, was just a really, first, I love

00:17:09 ◼   ► that in 2007 he bought himself an MP3 recorder and a clip on microphone and just thought,

00:17:16 ◼   ► wouldn't it be cool if I could record my lectures? And then he also made them available to the

00:17:21 ◼   ► students so that if they missed a lecture they could listen back, or if they were there

00:17:24 ◼   ► they could still listen back, which I always thought was really cool. And there were good

00:17:29 ◼   ► courses. So I recommend those if you really want to dive in. They are intended as essentially

00:17:32 ◼   ► introductory courses. One of them is about the solar system, it just goes through every

00:17:36 ◼   ► part of the solar system. It's good stuff. In terms of like modern podcasts, Neil deGrasse

00:17:42 ◼   ► Tyson's StarTalk podcast is widely loved, so I'll throw that out there. I really enjoyed

00:17:46 ◼   ► the NPR Science Friday podcast, which they, I don't know if they still do this or not,

00:17:52 ◼   ► one of the things I liked about it is they split all the segments up into individual

00:17:55 ◼   ► items, so they would do a show for a couple of hours, but instead of dropping like one

00:18:00 ◼   ► podcast, they would drop all the segments. And I always like that because I could listen

00:18:05 ◼   ► to the segments that interested me and skip the ones that didn't.

00:18:09 ◼   ► So it's kind of like chapter markers.

00:18:11 ◼   ► Yeah, a little bit, except instead they're just episodes are the chapters. Each segment

00:18:16 ◼   ► is its own episode and they drop, you know, a bunch of episodes every Friday. And of course

00:18:22 ◼   ► you and Steven introduced the best space podcast to never exist, which is Space and Cider.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Not Space Insider, that's a website. It's Space and Cider because people drink cider

00:18:33 ◼   ► while talking about space, and you can't get that anywhere because it is made up.

00:18:38 ◼   ► So it really sounded like he said that.

00:18:40 ◼   ► I know, I know, but he didn't.

00:18:43 ◼   ► I actually just bought spaceandcyder.com.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Alright just in case, just in case, just in case, you never know.

00:18:52 ◼   ► You never know.

00:18:54 ◼   ► So a couple weeks ago we were talking about my knowledge of the US states.

00:18:59 ◼   ► I can't even remember how this came up.

00:19:02 ◼   ► And I said I would take a quiz,

00:19:04 ◼   ► and a couple of days after the show I did,

00:19:05 ◼   ► but we forgot to talk about it last week.

00:19:07 ◼   ► - Right, there's so much last week.

00:19:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, have you seen the results of my US state quiz?

00:19:12 ◼   ► I sent it to you, and I'm gonna put a link in the show notes

00:19:14 ◼   ► to a PDF of my quiz results.

00:19:17 ◼   ► - No.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Oh, here it is, here it is, okay.

00:19:22 ◼   ► I hadn't looked at that.

00:19:24 ◼   ► I wanted to be surprised.

00:19:25 ◼   ► - So I got 16 correct.

00:19:28 ◼   ► - Wow, that's 32%, Myke, that's not a passing grade.

00:19:31 ◼   ► - What do you think about that?

00:19:32 ◼   ► 16, correct.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Do you think that that is a bad score?

00:19:35 ◼   ► Like, all things considered?

00:19:37 ◼   ► - Well, for an American, that's a very,

00:19:39 ◼   ► I think, a very bad score.

00:19:40 ◼   ► For a person from England, probably not.

00:19:45 ◼   ► I'm looking at your results here.

00:19:50 ◼   ► This is, well, okay, you got Alaska and Hawaii.

00:19:55 ◼   ► - Easy, they were the easy ones.

00:19:57 ◼   ► So that gives you 14 continental United States. What states have you been to in the United States?

00:20:05 ◼   ► California, and you got that one right. Yep. Oregon, you got that one right. Portland.

00:20:10 ◼   ► I always say the places. Yeah, I've been to Nevada. Yeah, you got that one right.

00:20:15 ◼   ► I've been to Michigan. And you didn't get that one. Nope. And maybe that's it. Oh, Tennessee.

00:20:24 ◼   ► Tennessee and Georgia and you you didn't get you didn't get Georgia and you did

00:20:31 ◼   ► get Tennessee yep so I think that there are some some pretty bad results on here

00:20:41 ◼   ► but overall I'm proud that I was able to get any to be honest because it's

00:20:46 ◼   ► difficult I've never studied this like why would we have you know you got you

00:20:52 ◼   ► got Idaho. Yep. You thought you thought Montana was Wisconsin. Wow. I don't even know why that's funny.

00:21:00 ◼   ► Wisconsin's not... okay so if are you looking at the map? Yep. Okay are you

00:21:07 ◼   ► looking at number six Montana? Mm-hmm. Okay go to the right. That's North and

00:21:11 ◼   ► South Dakota. Go to the right. Yep. That's Minnesota. Mm-hmm. Go to the right. Mm-hmm.

00:21:18 ◼   ► that's Wisconsin. Okay. 34. Well at least it was at the top though. It was at the top. You got, you got, right, you got

00:21:25 ◼   ► the what the X right but not the Y. So here's the other thing about this. I had

00:21:30 ◼   ► to type in the results. I had to bring up a list on Wikipedia of the states

00:21:34 ◼   ► because I don't know the 50 states. Right? So it's like that is another thing. I didn't even know all the states.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Like I probably could have only done about 20. How did you get, you got Wyoming

00:21:46 ◼   ► right that is a good guess yeah those are the square states those are really

00:21:51 ◼   ► hard to get the square state complete guesses basically if it wasn't super

00:21:56 ◼   ► obvious right like Texas you said Utah was Indiana Wow and Utah you labeled

00:22:07 ◼   ► well what is it Arizona you labeled as Utah okay I can see that I can see that

00:22:11 ◼   ► You you named Colorado as Illinois. Okay, Illinois is in the Midwest which is not in the middle of the country

00:22:18 ◼   ► It is that's where Chicago is

00:22:20 ◼   ► You put Chicago in Denver, basically, that's okay. You got New Mexico, right? You got Texas, right? Texas is a good one

00:22:27 ◼   ► That's a good anchor on the lower section of the map

00:22:30 ◼   ► So there are some where it's like I have a vague idea of where this state sits

00:22:36 ◼   ► Yeah, you've been the country you put

00:22:38 ◼   ► Missouri in Kansas

00:22:41 ◼   ► They're next to each other. That's not terrible. You put Oklahoma and Ohio or...

00:22:47 ◼   ► You put Ohio and Oklahoma, that's not as good.

00:22:51 ◼   ► You put Louisiana in South Dakota? Okay, that's a bad one. You missed that one by a lot.

00:22:59 ◼   ► That was... Louisiana's New Orleans, that's like steamy and on the Gulf.

00:23:05 ◼   ► I really struggled with the northeastern states.

00:23:08 ◼   ► - Well, they're so little, yeah.

00:23:11 ◼   ► - 'Cause I know a bunch that are up there.

00:23:13 ◼   ► I just didn't know which one was which.

00:23:15 ◼   ► - Also you labeled Delaware as Minnesota.

00:23:19 ◼   ► - Again.

00:23:20 ◼   ► It's funny how like this is hilarious to you

00:23:22 ◼   ► and I have no idea what it's like.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - Well, it's funny because for me,

00:23:27 ◼   ► I would think that somebody from the United States

00:23:29 ◼   ► would get, I mean, look, North and South Dakota,

00:23:33 ◼   ► you know, you've got the North and South

00:23:34 ◼   ► so you can figure out which is which there,

00:23:36 ◼   ► but you've got to know that they're kind of

00:23:37 ◼   ► in the middle there.

00:23:38 ◼   ► And if you mix them up with Minnesota,

00:23:40 ◼   ► or if you mixed Kansas up with Nebraska

00:23:44 ◼   ► or something like that,

00:23:45 ◼   ► I would, or Missouri with Iowa and Arkansas,

00:23:49 ◼   ► I could kind of understand that.

00:23:51 ◼   ► Or Illinois and Indiana and Ohio,

00:23:52 ◼   ► I could kind of understand that.

00:23:54 ◼   ► What's fascinating to me is that you've got states

00:23:55 ◼   ► that are like, because you don't have any context

00:23:58 ◼   ► of how the states, like what their character is.

00:24:02 ◼   ► So like for me, Louisiana is where New Orleans is.

00:24:05 ◼   ► It is a hot, steamy region.

00:24:08 ◼   ► it has to be south and it has to be,

00:24:10 ◼   ► and you probably would know that it like got hit

00:24:12 ◼   ► by Hurricane Katrina, it's on the Gulf Coast

00:24:14 ◼   ► and that would be able to place it.

00:24:15 ◼   ► And you placed it in the Northern Plains near Canada.

00:24:18 ◼   ► So that's an example where you don't have that context

00:24:21 ◼   ► to say, what do I know about the state?

00:24:23 ◼   ► And be able to, you know, other than a few California

00:24:27 ◼   ► and Florida and things like that.

00:24:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, see there was some at the end where I was like,

00:24:32 ◼   ► I have some states left and I have some boxes left.

00:24:35 ◼   ► So that might've been one of those.

00:24:37 ◼   ► You know, it's like I'm looking down the list,

00:24:38 ◼   ► I'm like, I've got three empty boxes,

00:24:40 ◼   ► I don't know what needs to go here.

00:24:41 ◼   ► I had to go down through the state list,

00:24:43 ◼   ► check all the names that I had,

00:24:44 ◼   ► and then just throw some names in

00:24:46 ◼   ► and hope that I got some of them right.

00:24:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, that may explain why you labeled Pennsylvania

00:24:50 ◼   ► as New York and New York as Vancouver.

00:24:53 ◼   ► - Can't help you, my friend.

00:24:58 ◼   ► - That's amazing, it's amazing.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Well, you know, I'm sure if you gave me

00:25:05 ◼   ► the 20 most populous cities in the UK and had me label them, I would probably get five.

00:25:13 ◼   ► Yeah, but I don't even know if I would get them right.

00:25:15 ◼   ► Oh, okay. Fair enough.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Because the thing is, like, we're not really... There isn't a focus on it like there is in

00:25:22 ◼   ► the US. You know, you guys have this focus on yourselves, which is very different to

00:25:26 ◼   ► how the rest of the world looks at their own country, I think.

00:25:29 ◼   ► Well, it's a bit con... I mean, this is a little bit like... I keep saying this to people

00:25:34 ◼   ► who try to compare like the US to a country in Europe.

00:25:37 ◼   ► It's like, this is a continent.

00:25:39 ◼   ► So this would be like somebody from Europe learning

00:25:43 ◼   ► where the other countries in Europe are on a map of Europe.

00:25:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would probably have a better job

00:25:49 ◼   ► of labeling Europe than places in the UK.

00:25:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

00:25:54 ◼   ► That makes sense.

00:25:55 ◼   ► It is a lot of states.

00:25:56 ◼   ► And again, unless, and I don't mean to offend people

00:25:59 ◼   ► 'cause I have relatives in many of these states

00:26:01 ◼   ► by saying this, but unless you have a personal connection

00:26:03 ◼   ► or a cultural connection or something like that to a state,

00:26:06 ◼   ► it's easy to not understand what a state is.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Because, you know, like I know people in Indiana,

00:26:12 ◼   ► so I know where Indiana is.

00:26:14 ◼   ► But if you don't know exactly where it is

00:26:17 ◼   ► and you don't have any kind of cultural context of,

00:26:19 ◼   ► I know somebody or there's a, you know,

00:26:21 ◼   ► like New Orleans gives you Louisiana,

00:26:25 ◼   ► if you know that context fairly, fairly easily.

00:26:28 ◼   ► But if you don't, then, you know,

00:26:30 ◼   ► if you don't know that Maine is just kind of

00:26:32 ◼   ► all the way up at the top there, which you labeled as Iowa.

00:26:37 ◼   ► Oh my, that's just hilarious.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Anyway, then that's why you wouldn't even know.

00:26:44 ◼   ► And yeah, school children in the US get drilled in this too.

00:26:46 ◼   ► So that's part of it too.

00:26:47 ◼   ► But there's also that context thing of just knowing,

00:26:49 ◼   ► oh, well, New Orleans is hot, so it must be at the bottom.

00:26:53 ◼   ► - Some, I think some of the ones that I got right

00:26:55 ◼   ► or close to right was by that kind of thinking.

00:26:59 ◼   ► But I don't know enough about all of the states

00:27:01 ◼   ► know exactly what they said. I know about New Orleans as fuck, I didn't

00:27:05 ◼   ► specifically though it was hot there so it wouldn't have helped me.

00:27:10 ◼   ► It's hot and steamy like Florida. Alright well you fail. This week's episode

00:27:16 ◼   ► is brought to you by lynda.com. They probably have a course on learning the

00:27:22 ◼   ► States, I mean I wouldn't be surprised. lynda.com is the online learning

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00:28:12 ◼   ► - I was like "Oh you should take a course on it" and they pulled out their phone and

00:28:15 ◼   ► they started searching and one of the first results that came up was a Lynda.com course

00:28:19 ◼   ► and then I gave them a code and now they take it a 10-day free trial.

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00:29:30 ◼   ► Thank you so much lynda.com for the continued support of Upgrade and Relay FM.

00:29:36 ◼   ► So Jason Snell, there was some new Apple products this week.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Oh great.

00:29:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, new mind blowing Apple products.

00:29:45 ◼   ► The, there was--

00:29:47 ◼   ► - Mind bending I think is a better.

00:29:49 ◼   ► - Mind touching, mind approaching.

00:29:54 ◼   ► - Mind shuffling.

00:29:55 ◼   ► - So the mind, yes, nano mind, touch.

00:29:59 ◼   ► iPod touch, new iPod touch.

00:30:02 ◼   ► This is the thing that John Syracuse

00:30:04 ◼   ► would be dancing in the streets about probably

00:30:05 ◼   ► if he didn't go and get an iPhone.

00:30:09 ◼   ► the, he didn't need, if he danced

00:30:12 ◼   ► and if he went in the street.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Okay, really John Syracuse,

00:30:16 ◼   ► he wouldn't have done any of those things.

00:30:17 ◼   ► Anyway, a new iPod touch with an AA processor.

00:30:20 ◼   ► So this is one of those things where it's not,

00:30:23 ◼   ► it is up, it's up to spec with the current models,

00:30:28 ◼   ► which are 2014, right?

00:30:31 ◼   ► So it's the 2015 iPod touch has the 2014 era,

00:30:35 ◼   ► but still current for now,

00:30:37 ◼   ► processor of the iPhone 6, although probably clocked down somewhat, but still it's an A8-powered

00:30:45 ◼   ► 4-inch, so it's the iPhone 5 series screen still, as it was before.

00:30:53 ◼   ► And it's its first update in what, three years or something like that? So I mean that's good news.

00:31:02 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:31:03 ◼   ► - Wow, the enthusiasm,

00:31:05 ◼   ► this reminds me on clockwise the other week,

00:31:07 ◼   ► somebody said, who will speak for the iPod?

00:31:11 ◼   ► And I was like, not me.

00:31:13 ◼   ► It's kind of fading away,

00:31:16 ◼   ► but this is still valuable in certain contexts as a product

00:31:19 ◼   ► because not everybody wants or needs

00:31:22 ◼   ► or can afford a monthly phone bill with data on it.

00:31:27 ◼   ► 'Cause the data really is where they get you.

00:31:32 ◼   ► And so I know people who have dumb phones and iPod touches.

00:31:37 ◼   ► I just feel like with the iPad and the iPad mini,

00:31:40 ◼   ► it's less exciting than it was.

00:31:43 ◼   ► People say, well, you can get it for a kid.

00:31:44 ◼   ► And it's true, you can get it for a kid

00:31:45 ◼   ► and they can put it in their pocket or something.

00:31:46 ◼   ► But like, you could also get,

00:31:49 ◼   ► and it's cheaper than getting an iPad mini even,

00:31:51 ◼   ► but it's just, it's niche keeps getting smaller and smaller,

00:31:56 ◼   ► I feel like, but it is good that it exists, I think,

00:31:59 ◼   ► to have something out there that you can buy.

00:32:02 ◼   ► 199 gets you an iOS device that is basically an iPhone,

00:32:07 ◼   ► somewhere between an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 6.

00:32:10 ◼   ► - I really, I really struggle

00:32:16 ◼   ► to understand the placement of this device.

00:32:19 ◼   ► And I know that like the idea is it's like,

00:32:21 ◼   ► it's basically the lowest end

00:32:24 ◼   ► to be able to play games on, right?

00:32:26 ◼   ► That's effectively what it is.

00:32:28 ◼   ► I think it is kind of like the cheapest way to play iPhone games, right?

00:32:33 ◼   ► So you can buy them for kids and stuff.

00:32:35 ◼   ► I think that's probably the prime market.

00:32:37 ◼   ► Yeah, but my son has been using hand-me-down iPads of mine for a couple of years,

00:32:41 ◼   ► and that's way better.

00:32:43 ◼   ► But they are more expensive.

00:32:44 ◼   ► Oh, I agree.

00:32:44 ◼   ► But they're way better choices.

00:32:46 ◼   ► So I think there's a lot of people that go that way, and I think it's a better way

00:32:49 ◼   ► because my feeling about this is bigger screens are better for games.

00:32:54 ◼   ► and every game device, every other handheld gaming device

00:32:59 ◼   ► is bigger than an iPod touch,

00:33:01 ◼   ► physically or in screen size.

00:33:05 ◼   ► They're just like bigger devices.

00:33:06 ◼   ► And I think that they work better for games.

00:33:09 ◼   ► But I think it's the idea of there's no iOS devices

00:33:12 ◼   ► in a family.

00:33:13 ◼   ► Jimmy would like an iPhone.

00:33:16 ◼   ► So you buy him an iPod touch for his birthday.

00:33:20 ◼   ► You know, I think that's where this device sits.

00:33:23 ◼   ► Because I genuinely cannot think of another place where it really, really makes sense.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Because it's like, okay, it has a really large hard drive to replace the iPod Classic, but

00:33:36 ◼   ► I just, I don't see it.

00:33:38 ◼   ► I just, I really don't get it.

00:33:40 ◼   ► It's a very, very peculiar device and I find it even stranger with some of the things they've

00:33:45 ◼   ► given it and some of the things they haven't.

00:33:48 ◼   ► No Apple Pay on this is weird to me, and I know it requires the addition of a Touch ID

00:33:55 ◼   ► sensor, which I'm sure is an expensive part, but Apple Pay feels like such a core part

00:34:01 ◼   ► of Apple now.

00:34:02 ◼   ► It feels like such a big thing for their future.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Having a device that is new, that could support it but doesn't, it seems like a very strange

00:34:14 ◼   ► omission to me.

00:34:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's about making it cheap.

00:34:21 ◼   ► I think it's that simple.

00:34:22 ◼   ► It's like they didn't want to put in the, you know,

00:34:24 ◼   ► whatever it is, the secure enclave,

00:34:26 ◼   ► that secure element thing, and not just,

00:34:29 ◼   ► and we're not talking about Apple Pay even necessarily,

00:34:31 ◼   ► because of connectivity issues,

00:34:33 ◼   ► you need a device that's always on the internet

00:34:36 ◼   ► to do Apple Pay as the, you know, near field stuff,

00:34:39 ◼   ► but you can do the Apple Pay for online.

00:34:41 ◼   ► - You don't need it.

00:34:43 ◼   ► It doesn't need to be connected to the internet.

00:34:45 ◼   ► - It does and does it.

00:34:46 ◼   ► Well, it's NFC, it's not in the iPad either.

00:34:51 ◼   ► So they've decided to say Apple Pay for online is fine.

00:34:54 ◼   ► And for not is not.

00:34:56 ◼   ► - Well, 'cause like, you know, it doesn't make sense

00:34:59 ◼   ► to put an NFC chip in the iPad

00:35:01 ◼   ► because you couldn't pay in a store with that thing.

00:35:04 ◼   ► - You could theoretically with an iPod touch.

00:35:05 ◼   ► I suppose that's true, but I think the point is

00:35:07 ◼   ► they'd have to put in NFC hardware

00:35:09 ◼   ► and they'd have to put in touch ID hardware.

00:35:10 ◼   ► And the idea here is to create something that's cheap.

00:35:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, that's definitely the reason.

00:35:15 ◼   ► - It's definitely the reason is because the expense.

00:35:17 ◼   ► - An unlocked iPhone 5S currently is like $500.

00:35:22 ◼   ► And this is 199 to start.

00:35:29 ◼   ► And I didn't actually look up the price, but it's a lot.

00:35:32 ◼   ► The gap is huge and you can't just say, well, it's,

00:35:34 ◼   ► you know, if you throw in $130 or whatever,

00:35:36 ◼   ► that's the premium they charge when you take an iPad

00:35:38 ◼   ► and make it a cellular device.

00:35:40 ◼   ► I mean, they wouldn't ever do that here

00:35:41 ◼   ► because at that point it is an iPhone basically

00:35:44 ◼   ► that can't make calls, but who cares?

00:35:46 ◼   ► So part of this is an artificial distinction

00:35:49 ◼   ► to separate the iPhone from the iPod touch,

00:35:51 ◼   ► but part of it is, you know,

00:35:53 ◼   ► they are charging so much less for it.

00:35:55 ◼   ► And that's partially because they're throwing

00:35:58 ◼   ► lots of features out.

00:35:59 ◼   ► And I think Apple Pay is an expensive feature.

00:36:02 ◼   ► I mean, it requires some custom hardware,

00:36:05 ◼   ► more than one piece of custom hardware to make it work.

00:36:07 ◼   ► And I think, you know, Apple does not want this thing

00:36:11 ◼   ► to be that close to an iPhone

00:36:13 ◼   ► and doesn't want it to be that functional

00:36:14 ◼   ► compared to an iPhone.

00:36:15 ◼   ► That's just not what this thing is for.

00:36:17 ◼   ► So I think that's, I do think,

00:36:20 ◼   ► and I wrote about this at Six Colors,

00:36:22 ◼   ► I do think, or well, no, I didn't.

00:36:24 ◼   ► I wrote about this at Macworld.

00:36:25 ◼   ► That's a site that I occasionally write for.

00:36:27 ◼   ► You may have heard of it.

00:36:29 ◼   ► I wonder if though this,

00:36:32 ◼   ► if you can have a four inch iPhone five sized iPod touch

00:36:36 ◼   ► with an AA processor in it,

00:36:38 ◼   ► it makes me wonder if we will see a four inch iPhone

00:36:41 ◼   ► this fall, which I've been talking about

00:36:42 ◼   ► since the last iPhone release that I wasn't convinced

00:36:45 ◼   ► that the iPhone 5S was the end of the line.

00:36:48 ◼   ► And I'm still not.

00:36:49 ◼   ► And this gives me a little more hope,

00:36:50 ◼   ► the fact that Apple is still creating products

00:36:52 ◼   ► with that screen size

00:36:54 ◼   ► and these products have an A8 processor in them.

00:36:58 ◼   ► It makes me think perhaps we will see an iPhone,

00:37:01 ◼   ► I don't know what, 6C or something like that,

00:37:05 ◼   ► that is essentially this or 5S something else, 5Q.

00:37:10 ◼   ► I don't even know what it would be,

00:37:12 ◼   ► but that it was the smaller phone size,

00:37:15 ◼   ► but with an AA processor in it.

00:37:17 ◼   ► And hopefully that one would have touch ID.

00:37:20 ◼   ► Well, it would have touch ID.

00:37:21 ◼   ► Hopefully it would also have Apple Pay at that point.

00:37:23 ◼   ► And then you'd have three sizes of phones.

00:37:25 ◼   ► Of course, the iPhone 6 would then rev

00:37:27 ◼   ► to be even more awesome with like an A9.

00:37:30 ◼   ► And it would be essentially a generation behind,

00:37:32 ◼   ► but at least like the iPad mini,

00:37:35 ◼   ► but at least it would exist.

00:37:36 ◼   ► So I am gonna take that as a positive from this.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Even if you're not super enthusiastic

00:37:42 ◼   ► about the iPod touch, I feel like maybe it augurs for,

00:37:46 ◼   ► you know, a new-ish phone in the old school iPhone 5 size,

00:37:51 ◼   ► which some people would like, not you,

00:37:54 ◼   ► 'cause you like the gigantic phone,

00:37:55 ◼   ► but some people I've heard, you know,

00:37:58 ◼   ► would really love a more modern phone in that size.

00:38:02 ◼   ► - I wanna talk about that very quickly.

00:38:05 ◼   ► Sadio in the chat room has pointed out

00:38:06 ◼   ► that the iPad Air 2 does have an NFC chip in it,

00:38:09 ◼   ► but it's not used.

00:38:11 ◼   ► All right, fair enough.

00:38:12 ◼   ► I wonder if it must just kind of come connected with,

00:38:14 ◼   ► but it's yeah, it's off.

00:38:15 ◼   ► They don't want you tapping your iPad Air at the store.

00:38:20 ◼   ► - 'Cause the idea being people have thought

00:38:23 ◼   ► that potentially this is for merchant terminals.

00:38:25 ◼   ► - Right, I've heard that speculation

00:38:27 ◼   ► that at some point they might be able to turn that on

00:38:29 ◼   ► and have some sort of, you know, use it as a,

00:38:32 ◼   ► you know, use your Apple Pay phone to pay

00:38:36 ◼   ► to an iPad Air 2 Apple Pay driven terminal

00:38:41 ◼   ► and do it that way, but that's just a rumor.

00:38:45 ◼   ► - Well, I feel like they're not gonna do that

00:38:47 ◼   ► for as long as they have a good relationship with Square.

00:38:50 ◼   ► - Well, unless Square's the first app that,

00:38:53 ◼   ► unless Square gets access to the NFC before anything else,

00:38:57 ◼   ► I mean, that could be part of this, right?

00:38:59 ◼   ► - Square have built a Apple Pay Reader, right?

00:39:04 ◼   ► - Right.

00:39:05 ◼   ► which they put on stage at WWDC.

00:39:08 ◼   ► So I feel like that that is a thing

00:39:10 ◼   ► that they're clearly working with Apple on,

00:39:12 ◼   ► and it's, you know, so maybe Apple have the chip in there

00:39:15 ◼   ► just in case, but right now they're happy

00:39:18 ◼   ► to work with partners on it.

00:39:20 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:39:20 ◼   ► - Hey, who knows?

00:39:21 ◼   ► Right, so let's talk about this small phone.

00:39:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:39:25 ◼   ► - So what are you expecting here?

00:39:27 ◼   ► Like the body of maybe the C, like the colors,

00:39:32 ◼   ► and with all of the hardware of the six?

00:39:35 ◼   ► - I don't, if I had to make a guess,

00:39:37 ◼   ► if I'm, okay, we're in fantasy land now,

00:39:40 ◼   ► 'cause I have no little birdies telling me things,

00:39:42 ◼   ► but if I'm in fantasy land, what I would say,

00:39:44 ◼   ► my bet would be, most likely,

00:39:47 ◼   ► would be something that looks more or less

00:39:49 ◼   ► like the iPhone 5S,

00:39:50 ◼   ► but has an A8 processor in it and does Apple Pay.

00:39:56 ◼   ► That would basically be it, that it would be,

00:39:59 ◼   ► it would look more or less like the 5S,

00:40:01 ◼   ► that they wouldn't really change it to look,

00:40:03 ◼   ► it's possible they would try to redesign it

00:40:05 ◼   ► to make it look more like the six,

00:40:08 ◼   ► but I think that they could also just save their time

00:40:10 ◼   ► and fit it inside.

00:40:11 ◼   ► Like this new iPod Touch is the exact same exterior

00:40:16 ◼   ► as the old one.

00:40:18 ◼   ► It's the dimensions are the same, the weight is the same.

00:40:21 ◼   ► So they didn't bother redesigning the outside.

00:40:24 ◼   ► They just redesigned the insides.

00:40:26 ◼   ► So let's go with that.

00:40:28 ◼   ► Let's say that's what they're gonna do.

00:40:29 ◼   ► They're gonna take the 5S, which is, you know,

00:40:33 ◼   ► it's a nice looking thing.

00:40:34 ◼   ► They're selling that now.

00:40:35 ◼   ► That's your $99 with contract phone.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And they put an A8 and Apple Pay support in there.

00:40:45 ◼   ► It's already got touch ID.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Maybe they upgrade the cameras a little bit,

00:40:49 ◼   ► but more to the level of last year's iPhones,

00:40:53 ◼   ► not the forthcoming new iPhones.

00:40:56 ◼   ► and keep it as the $99.

00:40:59 ◼   ► And at that point, you've got an A9 iPhone 6 Plus for $299

00:41:04 ◼   ► and as the starting price, an A9 iPhone 6S for $199.

00:41:10 ◼   ► And then you've got this thing, iPhone 5Z, 5Q,

00:41:19 ◼   ► or iPhone 6C or something for $999.

00:41:26 ◼   ► And so it's a new product that's kind of an old product,

00:41:30 ◼   ► but it also, it means that people who want

00:41:33 ◼   ► the smaller phone can still get it.

00:41:35 ◼   ► And just, you know, it's there.

00:41:38 ◼   ► It's not gonna be as awesome as the bigger phones are,

00:41:41 ◼   ► but it will stick around.

00:41:43 ◼   ► And that gives Apple, that allows Apple to keep

00:41:45 ◼   ► that lower priced phone in the line

00:41:49 ◼   ► while having it support, like you were saying,

00:41:52 ◼   ► having it support Apple Pay, for example,

00:41:55 ◼   ► and kind of clear out some of the products that don't.

00:41:57 ◼   ► - So in your imagination, in this Snell product lineup,

00:42:02 ◼   ► there is no cheap phone with a big screen.

00:42:07 ◼   ► - In my imagination, yeah.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Yeah, that's it.

00:42:11 ◼   ► The iPhone 6 and 6 Plus are,

00:42:14 ◼   ► or their successors are 99 and 199,

00:42:18 ◼   ► and they're gone, or while supplies last or something.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Or maybe, you know, maybe they stick around,

00:42:24 ◼   ► last year's models are also 99,

00:42:26 ◼   ► you can get last year's model.

00:42:28 ◼   ► But I think it would be one reasonable way to do it,

00:42:31 ◼   ► would be to say, you know, we've got, you know,

00:42:34 ◼   ► medium, large, and extra large, 99, you know,

00:42:38 ◼   ► 199 and 299, and then extra for more storage

00:42:43 ◼   ► on top of the base, the 16 base.

00:42:45 ◼   ► - So would there potentially be in this lineup then,

00:42:48 ◼   ► we have the 5C, which will probably just still stick around

00:42:52 ◼   ► as like the 99. As the free phone.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Of the free. Probably.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Yeah, they gotta have a free phone.

00:42:58 ◼   ► So that probably, they're not gonna keep the 4 or 4S.

00:43:01 ◼   ► That makes sense I think,

00:43:02 ◼   ► is the phone that goes into that slot.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Then they have a 5C+,

00:43:09 ◼   ► which is the mythical Jason Snell phone.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Yeah, it's the 5S with an A8.

00:43:16 ◼   ► Yeah. And Apple Pay.

00:43:18 ◼   ► And Apple Pay.

00:43:20 ◼   ► and then they have the two larger phones in their revs,

00:43:24 ◼   ► then their revs, like in their revisions basically.

00:43:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, the 2015 versions.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I would,

00:43:33 ◼   ► in this scenario, that's what I would say.

00:43:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay.

00:43:36 ◼   ► - And that's, this feels like sort of the direction

00:43:39 ◼   ► Apple's going with all its products,

00:43:40 ◼   ► which is you've got like your flagships

00:43:44 ◼   ► that you update every year,

00:43:45 ◼   ► and then you've got these other ones

00:43:46 ◼   ► that kind of trail a year behind,

00:43:48 ◼   ► and then you've got some stuff that you keep around

00:43:49 ◼   ► because you need something that's got higher margins

00:43:52 ◼   ► that you can cut the price on for various reasons.

00:43:56 ◼   ► Not saying they will do it that way,

00:43:57 ◼   ► but that would be one way to do it.

00:43:59 ◼   ► That would be, you know, instead of saying,

00:44:02 ◼   ► we give you last year's iPhone 6 for cheap,

00:44:06 ◼   ► we say, you know, we can give you this year's

00:44:09 ◼   ► four inch phone for cheap,

00:44:11 ◼   ► which I think is a better proposition

00:44:15 ◼   ► to say this is the new four inch iPhone,

00:44:18 ◼   ► even if yeah, it's using last year's technology,

00:44:20 ◼   ► but it's the new four inch iPhone,

00:44:22 ◼   ► instead of saying this is last year's six,

00:44:27 ◼   ► which it could do,

00:44:28 ◼   ► but I feel like there's a market for the smaller phone.

00:44:32 ◼   ► And so why not just, it's not enough of a priority.

00:44:36 ◼   ► Like last year was the first time Apple did two different,

00:44:39 ◼   ► like two different entirely new iPhones

00:44:41 ◼   ► with the six and the six plus.

00:44:43 ◼   ► So of course they weren't gonna also update

00:44:45 ◼   ► the five at that point,

00:44:47 ◼   ► It was too much, too much.

00:44:48 ◼   ► But this year, this year, would they push an update?

00:44:52 ◼   ► Just like the iPad mini 3 will probably go to iPad mini 4

00:44:57 ◼   ► and get last year's iPad Air 2 specs, right?

00:44:59 ◼   ► And just stay a year behind.

00:45:01 ◼   ► And this would be the equivalent of that.

00:45:03 ◼   ► - Okay, what about the way it looks, this device?

00:45:10 ◼   ► - Oh, my mythical imaginary?

00:45:12 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:45:14 ◼   ► - It's too bad that 5S has taken

00:45:15 ◼   ► or the S could stand for Snell.

00:45:17 ◼   ► But it's already called it the 5S.

00:45:20 ◼   ► The 5SS.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Like I said, I think looking at the iPod touch

00:45:26 ◼   ► and knowing like,

00:45:28 ◼   ► how much work do you wanna put into this thing?

00:45:29 ◼   ► Look, we wanna have it out there

00:45:30 ◼   ► and we wanna have it be cheap,

00:45:32 ◼   ► but we want more recent technology into it.

00:45:34 ◼   ► Do you really restyle it?

00:45:36 ◼   ► You could, but do you?

00:45:38 ◼   ► Or do you just say, look, the 5 looks great.

00:45:41 ◼   ► Let's just keep the 5 look around.

00:45:44 ◼   ► it won't look like the 6 and 6 Plus if they do that.

00:45:46 ◼   ► So they could totally, you know, they could restyle it

00:45:50 ◼   ► to have the kind of curvy edges and stuff

00:45:53 ◼   ► and call it a 6 something.

00:45:55 ◼   ► Or they could leave it blocky, but have it be modern,

00:45:59 ◼   ► and even call it a 5 something.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - I think one of the key problems that Apple

00:46:05 ◼   ► definitely looked to solve with the introduction of the 5C

00:46:09 ◼   ► is how do you take an old device and make it look new

00:46:12 ◼   ► So it looks like you have a new phone when you buy it

00:46:15 ◼   ► and not an old phone.

00:46:16 ◼   ► - Right.

00:46:17 ◼   ► - And I think if they kept it just in like 5S,

00:46:19 ◼   ► same body, silver, black, gold,

00:46:24 ◼   ► I think that they would struggle to sell it.

00:46:26 ◼   ► I wouldn't be surprised to see iPod touch metallic colors.

00:46:31 ◼   ► - That could be, that could be.

00:46:33 ◼   ► With so many of these products,

00:46:36 ◼   ► it really is just like how much do they wanna prioritize it?

00:46:40 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't think this is,

00:46:41 ◼   ► when I'm describing this product,

00:46:42 ◼   ► this isn't their high priority product, right?

00:46:44 ◼   ► The next six plus and six are their high priority products.

00:46:47 ◼   ► This is a, yes, we also rev that too.

00:46:49 ◼   ► So that's the question is, do they have enough,

00:46:52 ◼   ► do they want it to look like the other phones

00:46:54 ◼   ► or do they want it to not look like the other phones?

00:46:57 ◼   ► 'Cause what they really wanna sell are the big phones.

00:46:59 ◼   ► I don't know. - Yeah.

00:47:03 ◼   ► - It would be more consistent

00:47:04 ◼   ► to have it look like the six family.

00:47:06 ◼   ► - You say that about selling the big phones.

00:47:08 ◼   ► When they introduced,

00:47:10 ◼   ► What was the C introduced alongside?

00:47:13 ◼   ► What phone was it that they introduced the C alongside?

00:47:17 ◼   ► - The 5S.

00:47:18 ◼   ► - Right, because in the UK and in other places,

00:47:22 ◼   ► all of the marketing, like the billboard marketing,

00:47:26 ◼   ► was for the C range, all of it.

00:47:28 ◼   ► - Huh, yeah, and--

00:47:30 ◼   ► - It was very interesting that they did that,

00:47:32 ◼   ► but that was the choice that they decided to go down.

00:47:34 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:35 ◼   ► - So I wouldn't be surprised to see that again

00:47:37 ◼   ► if they went down that route.

00:47:39 ◼   ► - It's possible.

00:47:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:47:42 ◼   ► We could theorize about it all day

00:47:44 ◼   ► and somebody at Apple may be listening to this

00:47:47 ◼   ► and just laughing and laughing.

00:47:48 ◼   ► But yeah, I think this is, we've talked about this before.

00:47:53 ◼   ► This is one of those things that is fascinating

00:47:55 ◼   ► about talking about what Apple strategy is,

00:47:58 ◼   ► is there's so many different paths that could go down.

00:48:01 ◼   ► And they have, inside Apple, they have more statistics.

00:48:04 ◼   ► Nobody knows more about who's buying phones

00:48:07 ◼   ► and how many they're buying

00:48:09 ◼   ► and in what configurations where,

00:48:12 ◼   ► let alone market research than people inside Apple.

00:48:15 ◼   ► So they know way more than we do about who,

00:48:18 ◼   ► you know, what the markets are.

00:48:19 ◼   ► And they may have looked at the data and said,

00:48:20 ◼   ► "You know what, I know people are,

00:48:22 ◼   ► there are noisy people out there who say I wanna,

00:48:24 ◼   ► I'm not gonna upgrade from the 5S

00:48:25 ◼   ► because I don't want the big phone,

00:48:27 ◼   ► but when we do all of our looks at sales and research,

00:48:29 ◼   ► those people are a fraction of the market

00:48:31 ◼   ► and we are just not gonna bother."

00:48:33 ◼   ► That may be the case.

00:48:34 ◼   ► I would like to believe that it's not the case,

00:48:36 ◼   ► but it's possible because they know more than we do

00:48:38 ◼   ► because they see their internal sales data.

00:48:41 ◼   ► But even with that, they have so many different choices.

00:48:45 ◼   ► There's so many different ways

00:48:45 ◼   ► they could go with their product line.

00:48:46 ◼   ► So it's kind of fascinating to break it down in that way.

00:48:49 ◼   ► Do you spend the time to make a four inch phone

00:48:52 ◼   ► that looks kind of like the iPhone six line

00:48:54 ◼   ► and do it that way?

00:48:55 ◼   ► Do you leave it in the old shape of the five S?

00:48:57 ◼   ► Do you use it as the shiny colors thing,

00:49:02 ◼   ► like six shiny colors, like the iPod touch?

00:49:08 ◼   ► I, lots of choices, lots of choices.

00:49:11 ◼   ► My gut feeling is since the 5S is still in the product line,

00:49:14 ◼   ► that it would be more a space gray, silver, gold thing,

00:49:19 ◼   ► and you know, maybe looks like the 6,

00:49:23 ◼   ► maybe looks like the 5,

00:49:24 ◼   ► and that they'll keep that C model

00:49:27 ◼   ► as their colorful low-end model, but who knows?

00:49:31 ◼   ► - If I'm gonna take a bet on this, provided it exists,

00:49:35 ◼   ► and I'm still not convinced that they'll make this,

00:49:37 ◼   ► personally. I don't know what I think about that. I would put a bet on it looking like

00:49:45 ◼   ► the 5 but having metallic colors. That would be my bet. But I'm still not even convinced

00:49:52 ◼   ► it'll exist.

00:49:53 ◼   ► I don't, I mean my confidence in this product exists is greater because the iPod Touch is

00:49:58 ◼   ► out there, but it's not like, it's not a 90% or anything. It's, I think it's maybe better

00:50:04 ◼   ► than a coin flip. I think it's more likely than not because I think they need to do something

00:50:09 ◼   ► other than just clear the five down to the free phone and say forget it, you can't buy,

00:50:14 ◼   ► you know, we've abandoned that size. They've never said they've abandoned that size and

00:50:19 ◼   ► in fact they still sell phones in that size. I would, like I said, I would like to believe

00:50:24 ◼   ► that they are not going to abandon that size and that we'll see something a year behind.

00:50:29 ◼   ► But I don't think it's a sure thing because like I said there could be market research

00:50:33 ◼   ► that makes it clear that inside Apple there is no point in doing that phone.

00:50:37 ◼   ► Yeah, because it basically could be, yeah I'm sure there are quite a lot of people

00:50:42 ◼   ► that would love a phone this size, but are there enough to continue making it?

00:50:46 ◼   ► That's the thing, right? It's like yeah there probably will be a lot of people

00:50:48 ◼   ► but it costs a lot of money to make something like this, is the cost gonna

00:50:52 ◼   ► outweigh the amount of people that will buy it? I mean that's a question about

00:50:56 ◼   ► the Apple Touch but they've clearly made that decision there but they might not

00:50:59 ◼   ► want to make that decision for the phone because the phones are probably more

00:51:02 ◼   ► expensive to make. And what are the margins on that phone versus last year's

00:51:07 ◼   ► iPhone 6 at 16, you know, gigabytes? What are the margin differences there?

00:51:12 ◼   ► Would you be better off just marketing a $99 iPhone 6 along with the new, you know,

00:51:16 ◼   ► iPhone 6s? Or would you like to differentiate so that the $99 phone

00:51:24 ◼   ► isn't the bigger screen and that get people to feel like they're choosing

00:51:29 ◼   ► their phone size when they're choosing their price.

00:51:32 ◼   ► And there are probably, you could have a whole day

00:51:36 ◼   ► of arguments with people at Apple

00:51:39 ◼   ► about what the right thing to do is there

00:51:41 ◼   ► with lots of different data from the channel.

00:51:44 ◼   ► And we don't have access to a lot of that.

00:51:46 ◼   ► So we have to sort of speculate about it.

00:51:47 ◼   ► But those are the kinds of decisions that go into it.

00:51:50 ◼   ► Is there an audience here?

00:51:51 ◼   ► What does it do to our other products?

00:51:53 ◼   ► Does it take, if our margins are less on this

00:51:56 ◼   ► on the new 6S, are we gonna have a certain percentage of those people who are just gonna

00:52:02 ◼   ► opt for the cheaper phone? That hurts us. If Apple believes that they're gonna lose

00:52:10 ◼   ► a certain number of people who aren't gonna buy a 6-sized phone regardless, but then there's

00:52:14 ◼   ► a whole chunk who would buy a smaller phone if it's there, but otherwise will just buy

00:52:17 ◼   ► the bigger phone, and the bigger phone has the bigger margins and they do the math, they

00:52:21 ◼   ► say, "Look, we're killing ourselves if we offer a smaller model that has those margins."

00:52:30 ◼   ► So it's super complicated, and that's why my confidence that they'll do it is more like,

00:52:36 ◼   ► you know, 55%, which is up from before last week. But the fact that there is now an iPod

00:52:44 ◼   ► Touch in that size with last year's processor gives me some hope that they are... I mean,

00:52:50 ◼   ► they've built that product now, right? They've built a 4-inch device, iOS device,

00:52:55 ◼   ► with an A8 processor. And I would guess that those probably could be

00:53:02 ◼   ► work saved by designing them both together. Like, let's bring the

00:53:07 ◼   ► A8s to these two 4-inch models, but they'll hold off on the iPhone until the

00:53:12 ◼   ► iPhones come out. But I don't know enough about that. It may just be that

00:53:16 ◼   ► those are two separate projects and there's nothing to be gained. But, you

00:53:19 ◼   ► You know, the fact is that device exists,

00:53:21 ◼   ► it's got an AA processor in it.

00:53:23 ◼   ► It's very close to being this iPhone that I've described.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And the question is, you know,

00:53:29 ◼   ► do they want it to be that too or do they not?

00:53:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:53:33 ◼   ► - This episode of Upgrade is also brought to you

00:53:36 ◼   ► by Fracture.

00:53:37 ◼   ► Fracture is a really interesting company

00:53:40 ◼   ► that have a really interesting product

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00:54:19 ◼   ► is all in one. It's super, it just pops. These prints just look fantastic. It's a beautiful

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00:54:57 ◼   ► 28 inches and they also have three square sizes as well that are perfect

00:55:00 ◼   ► for those Instagram shots or album covers. Podcast artwork, both me and Jason

00:55:04 ◼   ► have podcast artworks from Infracture Prints. Maybe you have an app icon or

00:55:08 ◼   ► something like that you want to put there too. I know that Jason loves his

00:55:11 ◼   ► I've seen them proudly displayed on the wall.

00:55:14 ◼   ► Confirmed, yes. I'm looking at the upgrade. The upgrade one's on the top, Myke.

00:55:18 ◼   ► It's all the way up at the top there. Good. And yeah,

00:55:22 ◼   ► those are nice, but I've also got a beautiful black and white print

00:55:25 ◼   ► that's in a square, and I've got one that's a

00:55:29 ◼   ► painting, basically, and you've got that same one,

00:55:33 ◼   ► and that's a larger one, and it's rectangular

00:55:36 ◼   ► in landscape mode. It is not a landscape, but it is in the landscape orientation, a nice rectangular piece of art.

00:55:46 ◼   ► And that always struck me that some of my kids' art that I like that's on a piece of construction paper or something like that,

00:55:55 ◼   ► that fracture might actually be a really great way of preserving some of that. Rather than framing it or anything like that,

00:56:02 ◼   ► you take a picture of it or a scan of it and send it to Fracture and have them

00:56:05 ◼   ► printed on the back of the glass and then you hang it up. I'm planning on

00:56:08 ◼   ► doing that with some of my kids kids stuff. It is difficult for us to explain

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00:56:22 ◼   ► first order if you use the code upgrade at checkout. Now it will also help support

00:56:27 ◼   ► this show. Fracture are a great company. Go buy some Fracture prints. Go to

00:56:31 ◼   ► fractureme.com to get started. Thank you so much to Fracture for supporting this show.

00:56:36 ◼   ► So, we should talk about, really quickly, we don't have to spend a lot of time on it,

00:56:39 ◼   ► but one thing that also happened last week, we mentioned the big news, right? The other

00:56:42 ◼   ► big news, iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle releases, they do still exist and they got updated.

00:56:49 ◼   ► The iPod Nano still looks like iOS 6. John Gruber said that his birdies tell him that

00:56:54 ◼   ► there's just nobody left to do anything with that software to update it. And the iPod Shuffle

00:57:00 ◼   ► still exists, and I've heard from some people who still use them. Even when I run, I run

00:57:05 ◼   ► with my phone, and if I didn't run with my phone, I've got an Apple Watch, so I would

00:57:10 ◼   ► use that as my iPod shuffle. But I understand that this is all about, there's still a market

00:57:16 ◼   ► for it, and the margins on those are great, and so why not keep selling them? The one

00:57:20 ◼   ► thing that baffles me, though, about it is, and this goes back to, we're willing to keep

00:57:25 ◼   ► selling this product but we're not willing to do anything to make it that

00:57:29 ◼   ► much better like we'll just change the anodized colors but we're not gonna do

00:57:33 ◼   ► any software work for it because it's it's a it's not important enough it's

00:57:38 ◼   ► too important to kill not important enough to improve and the example I want

00:57:42 ◼   ► to give here is as far as we can tell the iPod nano and the iPod shuffle that

00:57:47 ◼   ► were just released don't support Apple music so if you add a song to your

00:57:52 ◼   ► library and you want to put it on the shuffle, you can't, because it's a DRM'd

00:57:56 ◼   ► Apple Music file, and they didn't update the software on the iPod shuffle or

00:58:02 ◼   ► Nano to play that stuff, apparently. I haven't tested this, I don't have these

00:58:06 ◼   ► these products. Now on one level I understand it because they seem to have

00:58:10 ◼   ► nobody home developing those products anymore, really, and it probably would

00:58:14 ◼   ► require some, you know, maybe serious software changes to support that

00:58:19 ◼   ► kind of DRM stuff, or changes in iTunes that when it's copying to those devices, it does

00:58:26 ◼   ► something that makes them playable, wraps them in a different kind of DRM that they

00:58:29 ◼   ► understand or takes the DRM off, which maybe they can't do because of the licensing agreements

00:58:34 ◼   ► for Apple Music. Okay, I get that. However, on the other hand, it does seem bizarre to

00:58:40 ◼   ► me because these are products made by a company that has a music service that their music

00:58:46 ◼   ► products don't support. And, you know, so I understand the technical reasons why, but

00:58:50 ◼   ► at the same time part of me says, "Why do these products exist if you're not going to

00:58:54 ◼   ► support them for something like your brand new music service?" Because I was thinking

00:58:59 ◼   ► it would actually be kind of great if you were an iPod shuffle kind of person to take

00:59:03 ◼   ► an Apple Music playlist and sync it to your iPod shuffle and go for a run. I think that

00:59:08 ◼   ► would be a lot of fun, but you can't do it.

00:59:12 ◼   ► if like, I mean it's possible to do right in theory in the idea that I imagine

00:59:20 ◼   ► that if I left my iPhone in airplane mode for a period of time at some point

00:59:26 ◼   ► it's going to say to me you need to connect this device to the internet to

00:59:30 ◼   ► continue listening to your music. Yeah to the Apple music tracks. I would imagine

00:59:35 ◼   ► it's gonna say that. We haven't tested that but I would imagine after a month

00:59:38 ◼   ► or a couple of months, that there's probably some leeway there because sometimes you're

00:59:43 ◼   ► just not on the internet, you're traveling internationally or something like that. You

00:59:46 ◼   ► wouldn't want to lose your music, but at some point it's going to say, "Look, you need to

00:59:49 ◼   ► phone home. I need to know that this isn't, you know, that you didn't cancel. Download

00:59:53 ◼   ► the every music piece of music ever and then cancel while this was in airplane mode. We

00:59:58 ◼   ► need to see, you know, we need to verify your subscription." I get that, but there's got

01:00:03 ◼   ► to be a period of time, right? And, you know, for something like an iPod shuffle, is there

01:00:08 ◼   ► gonna be a great heist of Apple Music by pre-loading an iPod Shuffle and then never ever connecting

01:00:15 ◼   ► it to a computer ever again. I guess it's theoretically possible but it seems sort of

01:00:19 ◼   ► silly. And even there, they would have to update the software but to say in order to

01:00:24 ◼   ► listen to Apple Music you need to plug your iPod Shuffle into your Mac every...

01:00:29 ◼   ► - Just after like 30 days it says if you want to continue listening to this you need to

01:00:33 ◼   ► authenticate me. Like it just gives you that audio message. They could do this but it's

01:00:37 ◼   ► clear that there is nobody working on this because like this product image on

01:00:42 ◼   ► apple.com/iPod at the Nano is embarrassing because they have five of

01:00:48 ◼   ► them four of them are facing you from the backs you see it as the colors but

01:00:52 ◼   ► then the other one has a current album Tame Impala's new album and it's the UI

01:00:57 ◼   ► is like shiny right it looks bad it's the iOS 6 UI because and it's not running

01:01:05 ◼   ► iOS 6. This is not an iOS device. It's running something that has been made to look like

01:01:10 ◼   ► iOS and whoever skinned it is working on more important products now. So my thinking is

01:01:22 ◼   ► to keep the iPod Touch margin low, they have to update the anodization

01:01:33 ◼   ► like method for all three of these products and it spreads the cost because

01:01:39 ◼   ► if you wanted to update the colors of this device you would also you can't

01:01:46 ◼   ► separate it from the nano and the shuffle because they have their own

01:01:50 ◼   ► colors you have to update all of the colors at once because it spreads the

01:01:53 ◼   ► cost amongst the three items for like the anodization pit like and the

01:01:57 ◼   ► materials that they use for it so they had to do this to keep the margins

01:02:03 ◼   ► making sense. So they have to update the Nano and the Shuffle even though Apple

01:02:07 ◼   ► doesn't care about them like in that way like they don't care about them in the

01:02:11 ◼   ► same way they care about the touch because the touch got new features and

01:02:14 ◼   ► you can put Apple music on it and stuff like that right it got stuff and it

01:02:18 ◼   ► continues to get iOS updates but the Nano and the Shuffle don't run iOS

01:02:22 ◼   ► there's nobody working on those teams it seems like but they had to update the

01:02:26 ◼   ► colors so if you're gonna update the colors you gotta make new marketing

01:02:29 ◼   ► materials out of it so they just did that and they're trying their best to

01:02:32 ◼   ► hide it. That's my opinion on this. Good conspiracy theory, I like it. I don't know if it has

01:02:36 ◼   ► any basis in reality but it's a good one. Good job. Because I feel like you have to,

01:02:40 ◼   ► you know, they can't keep the old anodization stuff. It doesn't make sense to just do them

01:02:46 ◼   ► for those two devices which if you imagine the Apple Touch isn't selling a lot, no way

01:02:50 ◼   ► are the Nano and the Shuffle selling a lot. Yeah, yeah, I mean, they did, I think it's

01:02:57 ◼   ► this is these products are in the minimal the minimum minimum required to

01:03:04 ◼   ► keep it alive category right now I wonder if it's like I wonder why I wonder

01:03:11 ◼   ► if it's just like a pride thing they want the iPod to live on I think that

01:03:17 ◼   ► they look at the sales and figure that it's you know given the margins on the

01:03:21 ◼   ► products and given the sales you might as well keep selling them like they're

01:03:24 ◼   ► They're in the iPod classic phase now,

01:03:27 ◼   ► where they're just gonna fade away.

01:03:29 ◼   ► But there's still a business there.

01:03:31 ◼   ► Because I mean, at some point, really, if you're Apple,

01:03:33 ◼   ► you're gonna say, look, you've got an iPhone,

01:03:36 ◼   ► and you've got, like who is using the Nano and the Shuffle?

01:03:39 ◼   ► And I know that there are probably like kids,

01:03:42 ◼   ► and there are certain kinds of scenarios

01:03:46 ◼   ► where you would wanna use a Nano or a Shuffle,

01:03:49 ◼   ► and the prices are good, but at some point,

01:03:52 ◼   ► it's still not a good enough business for Apple to be in.

01:03:55 ◼   ► But right now it's just good enough for them

01:03:57 ◼   ► to keep them alive, but to do as little effort,

01:04:00 ◼   ► make as little effort as possible.

01:04:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like we're just gonna keep this

01:04:07 ◼   ► until the point where we can get rid of it,

01:04:09 ◼   ► which is exactly what they did with the iPod Classic.

01:04:11 ◼   ► So maybe we're a year or two away,

01:04:13 ◼   ► maybe a little bit longer before the Nano.

01:04:16 ◼   ► I think the Nano would go first, in my opinion,

01:04:19 ◼   ► and the Shuffle would stick around,

01:04:20 ◼   ► it's probably easier to continue just keeping the shuffle around because it

01:04:24 ◼   ► doesn't look weird right the nano looks weird now but the shuffle is kind of

01:04:29 ◼   ► just like this little thing that you just put music on like it doesn't it

01:04:34 ◼   ► doesn't I can't imagine it requires a lot of development to keep alive yeah

01:04:39 ◼   ► and then it's like you need something to when you're at the gym well the shuffle

01:04:43 ◼   ► is perfect for you sure unless you have an Apple watch let's you have an Apple

01:04:48 ◼   ► See that's the other thing right when you move further down the line.

01:04:51 ◼   ► So we'll just get an "I know the prices aren't the same" but that's what the Apple Watch

01:04:54 ◼   ► is for.

01:04:55 ◼   ► It's exactly for this.

01:04:56 ◼   ► We created a whole version to be made when you work out.

01:04:59 ◼   ► That's the product you want madam.

01:05:00 ◼   ► Like you know that's just a way that I can imagine them going in the future.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Should we do some Ask Upgrade wrap up?

01:05:06 ◼   ► I think that's a good idea.

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01:07:47 ◼   ► So, John asked, "What is the average time you spend producing and editing a podcast,

01:07:55 ◼   ► cutting out the ums and the ahs, splicing in secret messages, and so on?"

01:07:59 ◼   ► Well, secret messages take a lot of time.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Well, for me, it varies.

01:08:06 ◼   ► I do a weekly TV podcast with Tim Goodman, who's the chief critic at The Hollywood Reporter,

01:08:15 ◼   ► and we talk for about an hour, and it takes me maybe five minutes,

01:08:23 ◼   ► because all I really do is cut the beginning and end of the conversation

01:08:27 ◼   ► and get it. And like last week his son

01:08:31 ◼   ► had to leave in the middle of it so he had to like go downstairs and unlock the

01:08:35 ◼   ► door and say goodbye and give him his stuff and

01:08:38 ◼   ► whatever there was like a little bit in the middle where I had to trim that

01:08:41 ◼   ► part out and that was it. That was all I that was

01:08:44 ◼   ► all I did. It was a two-person conversation. I can write down like this

01:08:47 ◼   ► one. I can write down when when there are

01:08:49 ◼   ► issues and we can trim those out and it's super fast.

01:08:52 ◼   ► I don't edit the ums and the ahs out because I think that's how people talk,

01:08:55 ◼   ► unless there's a very long delay somewhere. I just don't think it's worth

01:08:59 ◼   ► it to do. I think you could edit forever and I

01:09:02 ◼   ► don't think you would be appreciably improving the,

01:09:07 ◼   ► see I ummed right there, the product by doing that.

01:09:10 ◼   ► I will say that for something like the incomparable I would spend more like

01:09:14 ◼   ► three or four hours on it. Something like Total Party Kill,

01:09:17 ◼   ► which runs about an hour, I probably spend an hour and a half or two hours

01:09:21 ◼   ► And that's because those are podcasts with lots of people,

01:09:24 ◼   ► and often there are some sound issues,

01:09:27 ◼   ► and I need to play through the entire episode

01:09:29 ◼   ► and make some changes as I run

01:09:34 ◼   ► based on noises that people are making

01:09:36 ◼   ► or things I need to cut out with incomparable.

01:09:38 ◼   ► I do a lot more kind of editorial influence

01:09:41 ◼   ► in terms of saying this is a digression,

01:09:43 ◼   ► I'm gonna take this out.

01:09:44 ◼   ► And so that one is a much more intense podcast.

01:09:49 ◼   ► But even there, I'm not cutting out Umz and Ahz

01:09:51 ◼   ► more than like a long pause, I won't do it.

01:09:55 ◼   ► And occasionally, yes, splicing in a secret message.

01:09:57 ◼   ► So my answer is it really varies depending on

01:10:00 ◼   ► what the show is and what the content is

01:10:02 ◼   ► and what I'm trying to do with it.

01:10:03 ◼   ► And if it's got a lot of people and it's very complicated,

01:10:06 ◼   ► it takes longer.

01:10:07 ◼   ► And shorter ones, if I just recorded it,

01:10:09 ◼   ► I know everything that's in it, I know it sounds fine,

01:10:11 ◼   ► and I know there's one thing I need to clip out,

01:10:14 ◼   ► it's a five or 10 minute process.

01:10:16 ◼   ► What about you?

01:10:17 ◼   ► Is it, I imagine most of the shows you do

01:10:19 ◼   ► are more like that category, the quick edit category.

01:10:22 ◼   ► - Not really anymore.

01:10:24 ◼   ► - No, 'cause you're editing the panel shows now, aren't you?

01:10:28 ◼   ► So how long does this show take to edit?

01:10:30 ◼   ► - This show probably takes about 20 minutes now.

01:10:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:10:34 ◼   ► - Because what I do is, right next to me I have a notepad

01:10:37 ◼   ► and I write down some of the collisions that we have,

01:10:40 ◼   ► so I try and take some of those out

01:10:41 ◼   ► when we talk over each other and stuff like that.

01:10:43 ◼   ► And I pull some of those out

01:10:44 ◼   ► and I do that for all the shows now.

01:10:47 ◼   ► So that has increased my edit time over what it used to be,

01:10:49 ◼   ► which was just cutting the end, cutting the start,

01:10:52 ◼   ► putting it out there and letting it go.

01:10:54 ◼   ► So that is one thing.

01:10:56 ◼   ► I think analog is, we do a heavier edit on that.

01:11:01 ◼   ► So like we cut some stuff to make the show a bit tighter.

01:11:05 ◼   ► - That's the Casey Liz edit.

01:11:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, but the thing is about that is it takes me again

01:11:09 ◼   ► about 20 minutes because Casey does the listen through

01:11:11 ◼   ► and he makes notes for me.

01:11:13 ◼   ► The show that takes me the longest to edit

01:11:15 ◼   ► is Cortex right now.

01:11:16 ◼   ► because we do a full listen through.

01:11:20 ◼   ► I do cut out things like ums and ahs in there

01:11:23 ◼   ► to polish it up and we cut out things that are digression.

01:11:26 ◼   ► It's pretty similar to you with the incomparable actually.

01:11:30 ◼   ► So with me and Gray we do that and we actually both edit.

01:11:33 ◼   ► So I do the first edit, I give it to Gray

01:11:36 ◼   ► and he does a second pass through.

01:11:37 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:11:38 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:11:39 ◼   ► So that's how that show is edited.

01:11:41 ◼   ► So it's a much longer process.

01:11:42 ◼   ► And in those cases what I have found

01:11:44 ◼   ► is a good rule of thumb.

01:11:45 ◼   ► If you're doing a full listen through,

01:11:47 ◼   ► you're cutting the stuff that is irrelevant,

01:11:49 ◼   ► you're cutting the ums and the ahs and things like that,

01:11:51 ◼   ► I find it takes about twice as long as the show is to do.

01:11:55 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I've found.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Because you're going back and you're cutting something,

01:11:58 ◼   ► going back and listening. - That's about it.

01:12:00 ◼   ► I'd say that for incomparable too.

01:12:01 ◼   ► Anything where you've got a big panel like that,

01:12:03 ◼   ► 'cause you're really, it's a two to one ratio,

01:12:06 ◼   ► you're listening through it and then there's stuff

01:12:10 ◼   ► that you have to go back and change

01:12:11 ◼   ► and that all kind of adds up to about,

01:12:13 ◼   ► yeah, 'cause your average,

01:12:15 ◼   ► I always tell people it's about three hours

01:12:17 ◼   ► to do the incomparable and you know,

01:12:18 ◼   ► the shows are all about 90 minutes ish.

01:12:22 ◼   ► Sometimes they're not,

01:12:23 ◼   ► but they're in that ballpark usually.

01:12:24 ◼   ► And so the three, three and a half hours

01:12:26 ◼   ► is not unreasonable for that.

01:12:27 ◼   ► I think that's right.

01:12:28 ◼   ► Panel shows are harder because you do have

01:12:30 ◼   ► much more over talking.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Like you and I over talk a little bit

01:12:35 ◼   ► 'cause we've got some latency here on this show,

01:12:37 ◼   ► but it's still just two voices.

01:12:38 ◼   ► Even if you kept that in, it would be understandable

01:12:41 ◼   ► 'cause there are really only two people it could be.

01:12:43 ◼   ► But when you've got five people, seven people,

01:12:46 ◼   ► you have to take out the interruptions.

01:12:50 ◼   ► There are more interruptions and you have to take them out

01:12:53 ◼   ► or you'd never understand half of what was being said.

01:12:56 ◼   ► - So James asked,

01:12:57 ◼   ► Jason, I'm gonna leave this one for you, I think.

01:13:00 ◼   ► James wants to buy a new MacBook Pro.

01:13:02 ◼   ► Should he wait until USB-C comes to the Pro before buying?

01:13:06 ◼   ► - This is the classic,

01:13:08 ◼   ► when should I buy question with Apple stuff.

01:13:10 ◼   ► And what I would say is,

01:13:13 ◼   ► you say you want to buy a new MacBook Pro,

01:13:15 ◼   ► do you need to buy a new MacBook Pro?

01:13:20 ◼   ► Because that's, the longer you can wait,

01:13:23 ◼   ► the more new stuff there will be.

01:13:25 ◼   ► That's the bottom line.

01:13:27 ◼   ► It's always been that way, it will always be that way.

01:13:30 ◼   ► So hold out until you need to buy one,

01:13:33 ◼   ► but if you need to buy one, you should go ahead and buy one

01:13:35 ◼   ► because you need it, and so it's time.

01:13:38 ◼   ► There will probably be USB-C in the Pro,

01:13:40 ◼   ► but that probably won't be until the next revision

01:13:42 ◼   ► of the Pro line, which probably won't be for another year.

01:13:45 ◼   ► So are you gonna wait until next spring, maybe,

01:13:48 ◼   ► to get a new MacBook Pro with USB-C?

01:13:50 ◼   ► If you can, then you will get that.

01:13:54 ◼   ► Of course, if you buy next year's,

01:13:56 ◼   ► you'll be missing some feature

01:13:57 ◼   ► that's in the year after that,

01:13:58 ◼   ► and that will go on forever.

01:14:00 ◼   ► So at some point you just gotta say,

01:14:01 ◼   ► "All right, I want this one.

01:14:02 ◼   ► "I don't have USB-C on my Retina iMac.

01:14:05 ◼   ► "I'm okay with it because I needed a Retina iMac.

01:14:08 ◼   ► "I needed a new computer and I got it, and it's great."

01:14:10 ◼   ► So in the end, it's a personal decision.

01:14:13 ◼   ► I think your MacBook Pro, you know,

01:14:17 ◼   ► maybe with, well, let's see, I don't know.

01:14:22 ◼   ► I mean, Thunderbolt, the new Thunderbolt

01:14:23 ◼   ► and the new USB are gonna be big changes.

01:14:27 ◼   ► And if you can wait, I would wait

01:14:29 ◼   ► because we are going through a port transition here.

01:14:31 ◼   ► And if you can afford to wait a year,

01:14:33 ◼   ► I think that's probably good.

01:14:34 ◼   ► But again, if you need it, you need it.

01:14:38 ◼   ► But I would wait if you could.

01:14:40 ◼   ► But I would always say that.

01:14:42 ◼   ► And say like, when you start getting that itch

01:14:45 ◼   ► to buy a new computer, don't just buy a new computer.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Wait, wait.

01:14:49 ◼   ► Try to go as far as you can before you just can't stand it

01:14:52 ◼   ► anymore and you have to do it and then buy it.

01:14:55 ◼   ► I think that's what I try to do.

01:14:57 ◼   ► - This is a completely off topic thing,

01:15:02 ◼   ► but something that I meant to mention earlier in the show

01:15:05 ◼   ► about Apple Music.

01:15:07 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:15:10 ◼   ► This week, Dr. Dre's The Pharmacy Show

01:15:15 ◼   ► has been put in its entirety on Dre's Connect page.

01:15:20 ◼   ► - Oh, see, that's cool, that's cool.

01:15:22 ◼   ► That's an interesting test of listen again mode

01:15:25 ◼   ► instead of just a playlist.

01:15:27 ◼   ► I would love that because I miss some of these shows

01:15:30 ◼   ► and I hear about them later and I can't listen to them.

01:15:32 ◼   ► I can only see the tracks

01:15:33 ◼   ► and listen to the tracks that were played.

01:15:34 ◼   ► And as we've said before,

01:15:36 ◼   ► That's kinda not the point of most of these shows.

01:15:41 ◼   ► The point is to hear the person who's built this hour

01:15:44 ◼   ► or two of entertainment for you,

01:15:46 ◼   ► and not having access to that seems kinda crazy.

01:15:49 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:15:51 ◼   ► - 'Cause I missed Elton John's Rocket Hour

01:15:54 ◼   ► and I'd like to hear it,

01:15:54 ◼   ► but now all I can do is see the playlist.

01:15:56 ◼   ► - There you go.

01:15:58 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:16:00 ◼   ► - So we have more questions.

01:16:01 ◼   ► This comes from Olivier.

01:16:02 ◼   ► Olivier is looking for a checklist app

01:16:05 ◼   ► where they can reuse the same list template

01:16:08 ◼   ► over and over again.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Any suggestion?

01:16:10 ◼   ► - I was gonna say, let's talk to CGP Grey about this,

01:16:13 ◼   ► but you talk to him regularly, so.

01:16:14 ◼   ► - I do.

01:16:15 ◼   ► So I know from talking to Grey,

01:16:18 ◼   ► that it is possible to have project templates in OmniFocus.

01:16:22 ◼   ► So you can then invoke a template when you need it,

01:16:25 ◼   ► and it will just throw up the project

01:16:26 ◼   ► and all of the associated items with that project.

01:16:29 ◼   ► However, if you need something just more simple,

01:16:32 ◼   ► what I use for this is Clear.

01:16:34 ◼   ► because with Clear I create a list

01:16:36 ◼   ► and I put all the things that I need in that list.

01:16:38 ◼   ► And then when I come to check them off, I check them off,

01:16:40 ◼   ► but I don't delete the tasks.

01:16:43 ◼   ► Once you check all the tasks off in Clear and within a list,

01:16:46 ◼   ► you can pull up to just clear that list, but don't do that.

01:16:49 ◼   ► And then the next time that I need it,

01:16:51 ◼   ► I just swipe all of the tasks again to reactivate them

01:16:53 ◼   ► and it's there ready to go.

01:16:54 ◼   ► I do this for packing, stuff like that.

01:16:57 ◼   ► - Nice.

01:16:57 ◼   ► - So there you go.

01:16:59 ◼   ► And then Will, Will is very angry at us.

01:17:02 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:17:03 ◼   ► about our El Capitan installs.

01:17:05 ◼   ► This is probably more me than you.

01:17:06 ◼   ► - He has three exclamation points in his comment.

01:17:09 ◼   ► - After saying, "Have you never heard of partitions?"

01:17:11 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:17:12 ◼   ► - Yes, Will, I have heard of partitions.

01:17:15 ◼   ► I have an SSD in my MacBook Pro,

01:17:16 ◼   ► so I don't have a ton of space on it.

01:17:18 ◼   ► So I don't wanna put aside a really big portion

01:17:21 ◼   ► of my MacBook Pro.

01:17:22 ◼   ► But also, I want to live with it and use it every day.

01:17:25 ◼   ► And you only live once, so.

01:17:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm with you there.

01:17:30 ◼   ► I have, you know, my iMac has an SSD.

01:17:32 ◼   ► I do think to really use and talk about and write about

01:17:37 ◼   ► an OS 10 version, you gotta live with it.

01:17:41 ◼   ► So you have to live with it.

01:17:42 ◼   ► And I don't have the space on my SSD to partition.

01:17:45 ◼   ► Plus at this point, I would have to like wipe everything

01:17:49 ◼   ► and then repartition.

01:17:50 ◼   ► And I don't wanna do that.

01:17:52 ◼   ► So-- - Oh yeah.

01:17:53 ◼   ► - So-- - Well that's even worse.

01:17:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just, I don't wanna do that.

01:17:56 ◼   ► So I have El Capitan on the external drive

01:17:58 ◼   ► and what I'm going to do is,

01:18:01 ◼   ► at some point here, I'm just going to install it.

01:18:03 ◼   ► And the question is just, do I install it on the iMac

01:18:06 ◼   ► or do I install it on my MacBook Air?

01:18:08 ◼   ► And one of them will become El Capitan,

01:18:10 ◼   ► but really it should be the iMac.

01:18:12 ◼   ► I mentioned this last week with the MacBook Air

01:18:14 ◼   ► as my emergency fallback machine

01:18:16 ◼   ► for things that don't work in El Capitan,

01:18:18 ◼   ► because I need to use it every day

01:18:21 ◼   ► in order to write about it.

01:18:22 ◼   ► And the only way, booting,

01:18:23 ◼   ► 'cause that's the other thing about partitions,

01:18:24 ◼   ► is booting into another partition to use the new OS,

01:18:28 ◼   ► I never stay there for very long,

01:18:29 ◼   ► 'cause then I gotta go back and get work done.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And so I'm not really using the new OS at that point, am I?

01:18:33 ◼   ► I'm just kind of poking around in it

01:18:35 ◼   ► and then I go back to using the computer

01:18:37 ◼   ► and I'm using the old operating system then.

01:18:39 ◼   ► So yes, if you wanna be safe, you can have two partitions

01:18:44 ◼   ► if you wanna set that up.

01:18:46 ◼   ► We have heard of them

01:18:47 ◼   ► and neither of us is really interested in

01:18:50 ◼   ► or willing to do it

01:18:50 ◼   ► or thinks that it would be enough of a benefit.

01:18:52 ◼   ► So, and to further Mr. Hurley's point, YOLO.

01:18:57 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:18:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:18:59 ◼   ► And then finally, upgrading Steve has written in.

01:19:01 ◼   ► Steve is an aspiring writer,

01:19:03 ◼   ► he's starting to write some stuff online

01:19:05 ◼   ► and he wants to try and learn Markdown.

01:19:08 ◼   ► But his son was suggesting to Steve

01:19:11 ◼   ► that he is wasting his time.

01:19:13 ◼   ► His son just said, "Why don't you just write it in Word

01:19:15 ◼   ► "and just paste it into WordPress and call it good."

01:19:17 ◼   ► So Steve wants to know, do we use Markdown?

01:19:21 ◼   ► Do we think it's a good skill to have?

01:19:23 ◼   ► And what do you use to try and learn it?

01:19:25 ◼   ► - That's a good question.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Do you use Markdown?

01:19:28 ◼   ► you don't write a whole lot of things.

01:19:30 ◼   ► - No, but I do write in Markdown.

01:19:33 ◼   ► Whenever I write a blog post, so for example,

01:19:36 ◼   ► I write stuff for the Relay blog here and there

01:19:39 ◼   ► when we have new shows or announcements to make.

01:19:41 ◼   ► I write those in Markdown and I write,

01:19:45 ◼   ► we have a new sponsor system that we're working on

01:19:48 ◼   ► and all of the scripts there are written in Markdown,

01:19:50 ◼   ► so I write those in Markdown.

01:19:52 ◼   ► And also our CMS takes Markdown,

01:19:55 ◼   ► So I write the show notes and stuff in some instances

01:19:59 ◼   ► in Markdown as well.

01:20:00 ◼   ► So I'm very used to it.

01:20:01 ◼   ► And also when I'm making notes for myself,

01:20:04 ◼   ► I write Markdown.

01:20:05 ◼   ► Some of my show notes stuff I wrote.

01:20:07 ◼   ► So yes, I do.

01:20:08 ◼   ► Even though I am not a writer or a blogger

01:20:12 ◼   ► or anything like that,

01:20:13 ◼   ► I still use Markdown when I write things down.

01:20:17 ◼   ► - And I write in Markdown.

01:20:19 ◼   ► What I would say is it depends on what you're writing

01:20:21 ◼   ► and why you're writing it.

01:20:22 ◼   ► You don't need to...

01:20:24 ◼   ► I use Markdown because I like that I can use it

01:20:28 ◼   ► in any text editor and I've internalized the rules,

01:20:32 ◼   ► but, and I've talked to,

01:20:34 ◼   ► I have colleagues who wanna write in Microsoft Word.

01:20:36 ◼   ► I have colleagues who want to write in HTML.

01:20:39 ◼   ► They just do the HTML code.

01:20:41 ◼   ► My feeling is I don't really like reading HTML.

01:20:44 ◼   ► It's not that I can't do it.

01:20:45 ◼   ► It's just that I don't really like reading it

01:20:46 ◼   ► and Markdown is a little less obtrusive to the eye

01:20:49 ◼   ► than HTML code is.

01:20:51 ◼   ► And also I would always make typos in my HTML code.

01:20:54 ◼   ► I'd forget to close a tag.

01:20:57 ◼   ► I'd forget to have a quote mark at the end of the href

01:21:01 ◼   ► in the hyperlink, things like that.

01:21:04 ◼   ► And the way I view Markdown is,

01:21:07 ◼   ► it is easier for me to do it right,

01:21:10 ◼   ► less likely than I'm gonna make a mistake.

01:21:12 ◼   ► And then I generate using the Markdown script,

01:21:15 ◼   ► it generates HTML and that HTML is valid.

01:21:18 ◼   ► It's already, you know, there are no typos in the code

01:21:21 ◼   ► because the Markdown script did it based on my thing.

01:21:24 ◼   ► And I use BBEdit for most of what I write.

01:21:27 ◼   ► I've got a preview window that is a Markdown preview window

01:21:30 ◼   ► with my site template in it.

01:21:32 ◼   ► And so that's great too.

01:21:33 ◼   ► But you know, it doesn't need to be for everyone.

01:21:35 ◼   ► I use it because of the reasons I've said,

01:21:38 ◼   ► because it seems easy to use, it stays readable,

01:21:42 ◼   ► and then it generates HTML easily

01:21:45 ◼   ► in lots of different places.

01:21:46 ◼   ► There are plenty of other ways to write,

01:21:49 ◼   ► depending on what you're writing

01:21:50 ◼   ► and where you're writing them and why you're writing them.

01:21:51 ◼   ► So it may or may not, for Steve,

01:21:53 ◼   ► it may or may not be for him.

01:21:54 ◼   ► If you do wanna learn it,

01:21:57 ◼   ► there are, you know, you should go to the Daring Fireball

01:22:00 ◼   ► and look at the spec document that Gruber has.

01:22:03 ◼   ► If you really want to immerse yourself in Markdown,

01:22:07 ◼   ► I would recommend David Sparks's Markdown book.

01:22:10 ◼   ► It's a book, right?

01:22:14 ◼   ► - It's an iBook, yeah.

01:22:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, that he-- - So it's screencasts

01:22:18 ◼   ► and a book as well.

01:22:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, and he has a co-author,

01:22:23 ◼   ► Eddie Smith co-wrote that with him,

01:22:25 ◼   ► but it's an iBook book that you can get it,

01:22:29 ◼   ► you can see about it at maxsparky.com/markdown.

01:22:32 ◼   ► - And it's in our show notes.

01:22:33 ◼   ► - And it is in our show notes,

01:22:35 ◼   ► which you can find at relay.fm/upgrades/46,

01:22:40 ◼   ► or in your podcast app of choice.

01:22:43 ◼   ► So I'd check that out

01:22:44 ◼   ► If you really wanna dive in and learn it,

01:22:47 ◼   ► David Sparks's stuff is great and that's a good book.

01:22:50 ◼   ► But it's not for everybody and it doesn't have to be.

01:22:52 ◼   ► And your son may be wrong or your son may be right

01:22:56 ◼   ► based on what he knows about what you need to do.

01:22:59 ◼   ► And I think that's the difference.

01:23:00 ◼   ► I think your son probably would tell you

01:23:02 ◼   ► that it was dumb regardless, but it may be worth learning

01:23:06 ◼   ► if you're writing a lot on the web

01:23:08 ◼   ► and you don't like messing around with HTML

01:23:11 ◼   ► or messing around with style tools.

01:23:14 ◼   ► I never liked typing, you know, little, you know,

01:23:17 ◼   ► working style text and stuff.

01:23:19 ◼   ► I'd rather not do that either.

01:23:20 ◼   ► I'd rather work in plain text.

01:23:22 ◼   ► - You mentioned BBEdit.

01:23:25 ◼   ► I also use Byword on the Mac.

01:23:30 ◼   ► - Right, which is what Steve is using.

01:23:32 ◼   ► - Yep, and I also use Draughts.

01:23:34 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, those are great.

01:23:36 ◼   ► There are a bunch of great Markdown editors

01:23:37 ◼   ► on iOS, especially.

01:23:39 ◼   ► So I use them both.

01:23:41 ◼   ► Right, so that's it for this week.

01:23:43 ◼   ► I want to thank again our sponsors for helping us out today.

01:23:46 ◼   ► Learn.com, Fracture and Smile with TextExpander.

01:23:50 ◼   ► If you want to find our show notes, Jason mentioned those a moment ago, they're at relay.fm/upgrades/46.

01:23:54 ◼   ► If you want to find us online, Jason writes his fantastic stuff over at sixcolors.com

01:24:01 ◼   ► and he's @jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L on Twitter.

01:24:05 ◼   ► And I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:24:08 ◼   ► Thank you so much for listening, and we'll be back next time.

01:24:10 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:24:12 ◼   ► - Goodbye, Myke Hurley.

01:24:14 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:24:17 ◼   ► [ Music ]