Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [BEEP]

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 97.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by the lovely folk over at Hover and Ring.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by the incomparable Jason Stenall.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hi Myke, how are you?

00:00:23 ◼   ► I'm very well, how are you?

00:00:25 ◼   ► It's good to be back.

00:00:28 ◼   ► We're starting the week right, as we always do with a podcast.

00:00:32 ◼   ► So we had a ton of follow-up and suggestions for device name schemes.

00:00:39 ◼   ► We did.

00:00:40 ◼   ► So many that I can't read them all, but we have picked a few.

00:00:44 ◼   ► So I have a new device naming scheme.

00:00:46 ◼   ► I have chosen one, and I'll get to that.

00:00:49 ◼   ► But I wanted to just read out some of the suggestions that we got, because it might

00:00:53 ◼   ► help inspire some upgradians to name their own devices in a cluster. So this is after

00:00:59 ◼   ► last week's Itch This just came up about naming devices and people having kind of schemes

00:01:05 ◼   ► like Jason has all monkey names for his devices. So first up, Ryan suggested fictional evil

00:01:12 ◼   ► artificial intelligence like Ultron, HAL 9000, Skynet, I don't know what WOPR is.

00:01:18 ◼   ► Whopper, it's from War Games, which is a movie from the 80s that I guess you haven't seen.

00:01:22 ◼   ► I have seen it but didn't remember the name.

00:01:24 ◼   ► That's the big, the Whopper is that big computer with the blinking lights.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Yeah, the thing that actually predicts the wars, right?

00:01:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean we think of it, I probably think of it as Joshua, that's the, you know, because

00:01:35 ◼   ► it's maybe after Dr. Falcon's son, but that's what it is actually called the Whopper.

00:01:39 ◼   ► I have forgotten.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Which there's a parody of WarGames that shows that it's a giant hamburger, which I always

00:01:43 ◼   ► thought was funny.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:45 ◼   ► That works, yeah.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Now that you're saying it, I'm remembering it.

00:01:48 ◼   ► So there's a mic at the movies out there of WarGames.

00:01:51 ◼   ► I think that was an analog one.

00:01:53 ◼   ► But I will, I'll put a link to the "Incomparable" episode.

00:01:57 ◼   ► It's episode eight of the "Myke and the Movies" feed

00:02:00 ◼   ► over at the "Incomparable."

00:02:01 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, there it is.

00:02:02 ◼   ► Oh, we did it together.

00:02:03 ◼   ► So how did you not know that anyway?

00:02:05 ◼   ► All right.

00:02:05 ◼   ► - It was me and you?

00:02:06 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Interesting.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Okay, well I'm getting lost in all the movies.

00:02:10 ◼   ► We have some important "Myke and the Movies"

00:02:12 ◼   ► related news at the end of the show today.

00:02:15 ◼   ► - Yes. - That's a tease, Jason.

00:02:17 ◼   ► - You did a great job.

00:02:18 ◼   ► - Thanks.

00:02:19 ◼   ► - People are gonna be worried the entire show

00:02:20 ◼   ► that we're canceling Myke in the movies.

00:02:22 ◼   ► - No, we're gonna be saying what our next one is.

00:02:25 ◼   ► We're doing one.

00:02:26 ◼   ► - Oh, okay, good.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Okay, everybody rest easy.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Don't be tense while listening to this podcast now.

00:02:30 ◼   ► You know it's gonna be okay.

00:02:32 ◼   ► - It's all good.

00:02:33 ◼   ► Mykey suggested European cities on knives and swords.

00:02:37 ◼   ► I had a lot of people suggest swords to me,

00:02:41 ◼   ► and this posed two questions.

00:02:44 ◼   ► One, I didn't know this was a thing,

00:02:47 ◼   ► and two, why did people suggest,

00:02:49 ◼   ► Have I ever spoken about my sword collecting? I don't think so.

00:02:53 ◼   ► Here's my theory. You are, as we've said on this show before, you are, for some people,

00:03:00 ◼   ► the only English person they know. And in the United States, so many things about England

00:03:07 ◼   ► are swords and sorcery and King Arthur and things like that. And also American movies

00:03:13 ◼   ► tend to use English accents as code for old-timey, medieval stuff. So everybody, even if they're

00:03:20 ◼   ► not in England, they speak with an English accent and that's the code for old-time stuff.

00:03:25 ◼   ► So I think that a lot of Americans think that English people actually are walking around

00:03:31 ◼   ► with swords or if not, they have a sword on their wall that belonged to an ancestor from

00:03:36 ◼   ► the old times.

00:03:37 ◼   ► - Well, a lot of people were suggesting like samurai swords.

00:03:41 ◼   ► I don't-- I've got no theory for that.

00:03:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:45 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:03:46 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know if I've ever given the impression that I collect samurai swords,

00:03:51 ◼   ► but there we go.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Do you?

00:03:53 ◼   ► Do you own a sword, Myke?

00:03:54 ◼   ► I don't own any swords.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:56 ◼   ► I don't.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Ed was in the right market when looking at things that I collect when he suggested obscure

00:04:01 ◼   ► pen terms and brands that sound cool.

00:04:03 ◼   ► That was a good one.

00:04:05 ◼   ► And Andrew suggested the great beards of history, so...

00:04:09 ◼   ► You could have like a Rasputin.

00:04:10 ◼   ► two of my passions. So I appreciated those. The next one was Jamie who suggested Pokemon

00:04:18 ◼   ► because there are 150 of the original and then hundreds and hundreds more, right? So

00:04:22 ◼   ► I could have every device ever and I wouldn't run out. The reason I wanted to mention this

00:04:26 ◼   ► is because of Pokemon Go. So Pokemon Go is an absolute phenomenon.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Tim Cynova Yes, and not available where you are because

00:04:36 ◼   ► it's only the US, Australia, and New Zealand, I believe.

00:04:38 ◼   ► Yes, so Pokemon Go, if you don't know, it is a new iPhone game. It is an alternate reality game

00:04:45 ◼   ► in that you walk around in the real world with your phone out and it's using the camera and

00:04:50 ◼   ► you're looking through the camera and then Pokemon appear and you're told to go to specific places

00:04:54 ◼   ► for Pokemon or for specific, you know, or you go to different areas for gyms and stuff like that

00:05:01 ◼   ► that have been marked on actual real world maps.

00:05:04 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - And it is, I can't recall ever seeing something like this

00:05:11 ◼   ► with an iPhone app or a game before.

00:05:14 ◼   ► I'm gonna put a link in the show notes

00:05:16 ◼   ► to a little roundup of stuff over on MacStories,

00:05:20 ◼   ► which has got some pictures of some people

00:05:23 ◼   ► that have taken pictures and tweeted them or videos.

00:05:26 ◼   ► There are people all over America right now

00:05:29 ◼   ► playing this game and clustering together,

00:05:31 ◼   ► and it seems like a real phenomenon, like a kind of,

00:05:34 ◼   ► I don't know, like some kind of social thing,

00:05:38 ◼   ► which is very different, right?

00:05:40 ◼   ► Like it's turning into a big thing.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Have you tried Pokemon Go yet?

00:05:44 ◼   ► - I tried it briefly, but my family went out last night

00:05:47 ◼   ► while I was talking on the phone.

00:05:49 ◼   ► They all went for a walk, and what my wife said was,

00:05:52 ◼   ► we finally have found a reason for my son

00:05:55 ◼   ► who loves video games to actually like go for a walk

00:05:58 ◼   ► enthusiastically, which is to look for Pokemon. So they were playing it and my daughter got

00:06:04 ◼   ► like 20 Pokemon and they discovered there's a historical marker near my house that is

00:06:11 ◼   ► a PokeSpot, I guess, or maybe that's a gym. And then there's also a memorial bench over

00:06:18 ◼   ► by the school that's in my neighborhood and that is the other one. So they found the locations

00:06:24 ◼   ► of a nearby PokeSpot and a nearby gym and also caught a lot of Pokemon. And they were

00:06:30 ◼   ► you know, they were walking out. They did a nice, I mean it was like they were out for

00:06:34 ◼   ► like half an hour. It was more like an hour doing it. So I've only done it briefly but

00:06:39 ◼   ► there's a lot of enthusiasm in my house for it.

00:06:41 ◼   ► I'm so excited. Like the reason I think that this is hitting a lot of people is because

00:06:49 ◼   ► This is what Pokemon is, right? Like, being out in the world collecting them. Like, this

00:06:56 ◼   ► is what the game is, right? The kids that go out into the world and they collect Pokemon.

00:07:00 ◼   ► This is the closest to actually being able for us to do this in our world. And I think

00:07:05 ◼   ► that's why it's hit with so many people. Like, if you've ever played Pokemon, this is what

00:07:10 ◼   ► you dreamed of, being able to actually go out into the world and catch Pokemon. And

00:07:16 ◼   ► And I'm seeing reports that it is going to be launching in Europe within the next few

00:07:22 ◼   ► days and I'm very excited for it.

00:07:25 ◼   ► I know that if I downloaded it from a US App Store account which I have used in the past,

00:07:31 ◼   ► I could get the game.

00:07:32 ◼   ► But it seems like for people that have done that, they've actually not enabled Pokéspots

00:07:36 ◼   ► in those areas yet.

00:07:37 ◼   ► So it's kind of pointless.

00:07:39 ◼   ► So I'm just waiting.

00:07:41 ◼   ► But there was one other thing that I wanted to talk about, which was the effect that this

00:07:45 ◼   ► has had on Nintendo. Now Nintendo's stock price has, like their market cap, has raised

00:07:53 ◼   ► by seven billion dollars over the last couple, over the last day or two because of Pokémon

00:07:58 ◼   ► Go. Now the reason that this is very interesting is they have nothing to do with this game.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Well that's not entirely true, right? They... Well, no, they have something to do with Pokémon

00:08:10 ◼   ► But this game is not a Nintendo game. So Nintendo earned 33% of the Pokemon company, right?

00:08:16 ◼   ► I believe Nintendo also is one of the three investors in the mobile development company

00:08:22 ◼   ► that built the game.

00:08:23 ◼   ► Yeah, that doesn't surprise me, right? If they are. But what I mean is, like, this isn't

00:08:27 ◼   ► a Nintendo game. This is a game from the Pokemon company.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Yeah, and produced by, what, Niantic.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Yeah, who is an alphabet company. Did you know?

00:08:39 ◼   ► was an alphabet county, but is now owned by what? Nintendo, the Pokémon company, and

00:08:51 ◼   ► Google.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Ah, okay. Well that makes sense. But anyway, it's just very interesting, right, that

00:08:58 ◼   ► people are just looking at this and saying "Pokémon? Oh, that means Nintendo." And

00:09:04 ◼   ► their stock has gone through the roof.

00:09:06 ◼   ► It's just a really interesting cause and effect,

00:09:09 ◼   ► which, I mean, I guess in some instances

00:09:12 ◼   ► quite rightly pointed out why so many people

00:09:15 ◼   ► believe they were right that Nintendo

00:09:17 ◼   ► should be making mobile games.

00:09:20 ◼   ► I think this is definitely what the market wants.

00:09:23 ◼   ► It's still, I think, time will still tell, I believe,

00:09:28 ◼   ► if this is the right thing for Nintendo as a company.

00:09:33 ◼   ► I think so, but you can see the enthusiasm here that perhaps this... I think what people,

00:09:38 ◼   ► what the investors are hoping is that this is a sign that the kind of stuff that Nintendo is

00:09:48 ◼   ► good at could translate in this way, where in fact, Nintendo doesn't have to build

00:09:57 ◼   ► their own hardware even to have their kind of, you know, the intellectual property that they have

00:10:04 ◼   ► and their attitude toward games and building software, that could be applied and be successful,

00:10:12 ◼   ► even though this is a thing that Nintendo is only, I don't even want to say tangentially,

00:10:17 ◼   ► Nintendo is involved in this, but this is not like a core just Nintendo kind of thing.

00:10:22 ◼   ► You see, I haven't played it so I can't attest to this, but I would be very surprised if

00:10:28 ◼   ► there was even a Nintendo logo when you put it in the game.

00:10:30 ◼   ► No, there's not. It's the Pokémon company, right? It's all, it's Pokémon brand.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Because this isn't the first game that the Pokémon company have had on iOS. I think

00:10:39 ◼   ► they had a game, Pokémon Shuffle, I think, which was a 3DS game which they turned into

00:10:45 ◼   ► an iPhone and Android game. So, you know, this isn't their first foray, but it's the

00:10:52 ◼   ► combination of everything that this game does that is making it so popular. So it's very

00:10:59 ◼   ► interesting to see and it's very, I'm sure that there are some very interesting conversations

00:11:05 ◼   ► occurring inside of Nintendo headquarters right now as they're trying to work out where

00:11:11 ◼   ► they're going to go next with this. But I'm really excited and I'm very happy for Nintendo

00:11:16 ◼   ► and the Pokemon company that this is happening. I hope that it's going to push them to actually

00:11:21 ◼   ► develop a real Pokemon game for mobile platforms because that's something that I would love.

00:11:27 ◼   ► But yeah, anyway, that is a brief aside, but Pokemon Go and everything it's doing, fascinating,

00:11:33 ◼   ► absolutely fascinating. And I'm really interested to see what this is like next week. Right,

00:11:39 ◼   ► will it last? Nobody knows, we'll wait and see.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Scott suggested fictional cat names, and I guess this is to go in kind of hand in hand

00:11:48 ◼   ► with the Mac OS cat names.

00:11:51 ◼   ► I guess. Or is that, that might be how, what Scott uses. I think that's, I think some people

00:11:55 ◼   ► are not recommending for you, they're recommending, they're saying what they use.

00:11:58 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:59 ◼   ► I think that's what Scott's doing here.

00:12:00 ◼   ► Of course. Yeah, yeah, he's saying what he uses, yeah. And, and it's like, you know,

00:12:03 ◼   ► it's in the idea to spark ideas for me. So he suggested like the Cheshire Cat and then

00:12:09 ◼   ► years ago they had a boot camp installation which was called Schrodinger's Cat, which

00:12:13 ◼   ► that just really made me laugh. I thought that was very funny.

00:12:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:17 ◼   ► Aesir suggested Star Wars related names and gave me some ideas like the iMac could be

00:12:23 ◼   ► the Death Star, the iPad Pro could be the Millennium Falcon and so on. I like those.

00:12:27 ◼   ► Neil suggested comic characters with specific kind of verticals like for example Wi-Fi being

00:12:35 ◼   ► Asgard, MacBook Pro being Odin, iPhone is Thor, Watch is Mjolnir and the iPad is Beta

00:12:41 ◼   ► Ray Bill.

00:12:42 ◼   ► >> MATT: Sure, so Neil is a big Thor fan obviously and those are I think what he uses so yeah.

00:12:46 ◼   ► Can you suggest 80s movie titles?

00:12:49 ◼   ► Sure. Back to the Whopper again.

00:12:51 ◼   ► Rob suggested mailbag related things like Pouch, Sack, Satchel, which I really enjoyed.

00:12:57 ◼   ► Satcheeeeeel! Sorry.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Hi there.

00:13:01 ◼   ► Hi.

00:13:02 ◼   ► Many people suggested wrestlers, including Jimmy, and that is what I have decided to go with.

00:13:09 ◼   ► Oh, look at that.

00:13:10 ◼   ► So I've gone with wrestler names.

00:13:12 ◼   ► got a little screenshot of all your name—devices that are named things that I don't have

00:13:16 ◼   ► any idea what they are, but they're important to you, and that's the most important thing.

00:13:20 ◼   ► That's why I'm not even gonna bother saying the names on the air, because it won't mean

00:13:23 ◼   ► anything to anybody who doesn't follow wrestling, because I've chosen current wrestlers, not

00:13:28 ◼   ► classic name—er, classic wrestlers.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Ah.

00:13:31 ◼   ► So I'm just gonna put the screenshot in the show notes so people can go and see that

00:13:35 ◼   ► if they want to.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Um, but this is all bringing me around to mention, uh, that my wrestling show on The

00:13:43 ◼   ► Incomparable is going to be debuting this week on July 15th.

00:13:50 ◼   ► So it's called The Ring Post.

00:13:51 ◼   ► There's already an episode zero up, so people can actually go and listen to your introduction

00:13:55 ◼   ► and subscribe to the podcast now.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:13:58 ◼   ► So you can go now.

00:13:59 ◼   ► And the first episode goes up, yeah.

00:14:00 ◼   ► This is part of, uh, there's currently we're in two very big weeks, um, if you're a wrestling

00:14:05 ◼   ► fan, so.

00:14:06 ◼   ► That's why I did it now.

00:14:07 ◼   ► Wrestling weeks, I see.

00:14:08 ◼   ► You gotta do that.

00:14:09 ◼   ► That's like when I launched Six Colors.

00:14:11 ◼   ► I wanted to take time off, but I couldn't because it was the week the iPhone came out,

00:14:14 ◼   ► so that's the perfect time.

00:14:16 ◼   ► So you're, you know, you're timing it perfectly, Myke.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Striking while the iron is hot.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Is WrestleMania happening?

00:14:22 ◼   ► No, that's in kind of March/April time.

00:14:26 ◼   ► How about the Royal Rumble?

00:14:27 ◼   ► Is the Royal Rumble happening?

00:14:28 ◼   ► That's in January.

00:14:29 ◼   ► I'm really impressed right now, though.

00:14:31 ◼   ► That's it.

00:14:32 ◼   ► I'm done.

00:14:33 ◼   ► That's all the wrestling I know is done now.

00:14:35 ◼   ► Well, you did a good job. So if you want to go and check it out, if you're interested

00:14:39 ◼   ► in wrestling, or if, you know, like many people started listening to the pen addict because

00:14:43 ◼   ► they just wanted to listen to something that someone was really excited about, then you

00:14:50 ◼   ► might enjoy the Ring Post for the same reason, because it's something I'm very excited about.

00:14:53 ◼   ► It's something that I enjoy. So you can go there, go to the incomparable.com/ringpost

00:14:58 ◼   ► or just go to ringpost.fm and it will redirect you.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Yeah, and people have asked, we've talked about this before, but people asked why is

00:15:05 ◼   ► that not a relay show? And you and I both thought that it was a better fit for the incomparable

00:15:10 ◼   ► and that it's about an entertainment product that you're really enthusiastic about and

00:15:14 ◼   ► that that might be a better fit.

00:15:15 ◼   ► It's an episodic TV show.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. It's the same reason that Upgrade and Clockwise aren't on the incomparable because

00:15:21 ◼   ► I felt that that wasn't what that network was about. And yeah, so that's where we are.

00:15:26 ◼   ► Yeah, like if you boil it down, it is a fictional television show. So that's why it's on the

00:15:30 ◼   ► the incomparable because that's what the incomparable is all about.

00:15:33 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:15:34 ◼   ► - We have some very important pineapple pepperoni pizza follow-up.

00:15:39 ◼   ► - Pizza follow-up. This, okay, so two pieces of pepperoni and pineapple news, and these

00:15:46 ◼   ► keep trickling in. People spot pepperoni and pineapple in the world. Not everybody, you'll

00:15:49 ◼   ► be surprised to know, not everybody went out the week we talked about pepperoni and pineapple

00:15:53 ◼   ► pizza or the week that Tiff and Marco talked about it on top four, right? Nobody just runs

00:16:00 ◼   ► not everybody runs out and immediately buys pizza, right? Sometimes you just are living

00:16:04 ◼   ► your life and then you're sitting somewhere at a pizza restaurant, let's say, and you

00:16:08 ◼   ► think, "Hey, I should try that pizza." So we've had trickling over weeks and weeks,

00:16:14 ◼   ► people reporting back about pepperoni and pineapple. And generally, positively, I have

00:16:19 ◼   ► to say, somebody sent in an ad for a Domino's pizza, you know, somewhere that was like,

00:16:26 ◼   ► this get any large or something, but the photo that they showed in the ad was pepperoni and

00:16:32 ◼   ► pineapple. Like, you know, how did, what's going on? What's happening? I think maybe,

00:16:37 ◼   ► you know, I'm just saying the pepperoni and pineapple train is rolling down the track.

00:16:41 ◼   ► And then listener Frank wrote in to you and me and said, "I sat down at a bar, someone

00:16:47 ◼   ► left three slices of pepperoni and pineapple pizza. Jason was right." Now I think the implication

00:16:52 ◼   ► here from Frank is that he tried this leftover bar pizza.

00:16:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I have many questions about this.

00:17:00 ◼   ► Enjoyed it. Which I first would say, "Frank, you're a braver man than I to just discover

00:17:07 ◼   ► left pizza and even though it's at a bar, it's not like it was in a garbage can or something,

00:17:12 ◼   ► it's at a bar." And try it, which is sort of the implication here. Although maybe he's

00:17:19 ◼   ► just saying that he saw it and noticed it. But the other question is why did they leave

00:17:24 ◼   ► the, if it was so delicious, why did they leave it behind? I'm troubled by the fact

00:17:27 ◼   ► that pepperoni and pineapple pizza was abandoned at the bar. So I'm not sure whether this is

00:17:32 ◼   ► good news or bad news, frankly.

00:17:34 ◼   ► I have found the Domino's ad and I've put that in the show notes too.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Oh good. Great. Fantastic.

00:17:41 ◼   ► So I wonder if like I'm doing this because I have recently ordered a few pepperoni pineapple

00:17:46 ◼   ► pizzas from Domino's. So who knows. There was recently, I think this was just before

00:17:51 ◼   ► WWDC, somebody wrote in from Wisconsin and they went to their local pizza shop and they

00:17:59 ◼   ► asked for pepperoni pineapple and the pizza person, I don't know, Pizzolio or something.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Sure. It's a barista really, frankly. Yeah, okay. Let's ask Federico what the official

00:18:15 ◼   ► Italian name is for a pizza professional. Anyway.

00:18:19 ◼   ► It is something along the lines of pizza earlier, I just can't say it correctly.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Alright.

00:18:24 ◼   ► But they kind of gave them a look and was like, "Real AFM?" which was amazing.

00:18:31 ◼   ► It's happening. I'm just saying, it's happening. One day, people will look back and say, "You

00:18:35 ◼   ► know, Hawaiian pizza used to be made with ham, but now we just make it with pepperoni

00:18:39 ◼   ► because everybody preferred that. Thanks, Real AFM."

00:18:42 ◼   ► Yep. So good.

00:18:44 ◼   ► I'm just troubled why those three pieces were left behind. Never leave pepperoni pineapple

00:18:48 ◼   ► pizza behind. Take it with you. Get them to put it in a box. Take it with you. Just reheat

00:18:53 ◼   ► that stuff.

00:18:54 ◼   ► So that was from Matthew, that tweet about the--

00:18:57 ◼   ► Thank you, Matthew.

00:18:58 ◼   ► --in Rochester, Wisconsin.

00:18:59 ◼   ► That's amazing. Truly, Myke, the grip of relay on the minds of humans on Earth is broad,

00:19:12 ◼   ► clearly.

00:19:13 ◼   ► I think that this is our crowning achievement.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Oh dear, that's too bad.

00:19:23 ◼   ► Like, really?

00:19:24 ◼   ► This is our legacy.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Well, this is the thing is, you know, if somebody tells you yes, there will be one thing you

00:19:29 ◼   ► do in your life that has an impact beyond all others, but you will never know what it

00:19:35 ◼   ► will be.

00:19:36 ◼   ► And you can try and try and try to make big impacts if you like, but that doesn't mean

00:19:40 ◼   ► that any of those will come to anything.

00:19:42 ◼   ► In fact, it might simply be that people like a kind of pizza a little bit more.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Oh well, what an epitaph that will be.

00:19:52 ◼   ► Somebody go to my grave when I die and just put some pepperonis and pineapples on, sprinkle

00:19:58 ◼   ► it on the, anyway, let's move on.

00:20:00 ◼   ► [Laughs]

00:20:01 ◼   ► Matt>> Jason, allow me to take a moment to talk to you about domain names.

00:20:04 ◼   ► Jason>> Thank goodness.

00:20:06 ◼   ► Matt>> Hover is one of our sponsors for this week's show.

00:20:09 ◼   ► When I was setting up the Ring Post website, and I mentioned the URL ringpost.fm recently,

00:20:16 ◼   ► Hover was where I went to buy that, naturally.

00:20:19 ◼   ► It was actually quite funny, I was thinking up names for what the show could be, and as

00:20:24 ◼   ► I always do with this stuff, I just go to Hover and I just keep typing in words until

00:20:30 ◼   ► I see the domain available and then that's the one that I'll buy.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Because domain names are so important and it's so easy to find and buy them with Hover.

00:20:39 ◼   ► They have over 400 domain extensions to enjoy domain with. All the classics like .com and

00:20:44 ◼   ► .net are there, .co. They also have .design and .tech or JSON, we could buy something.pizza.

00:20:53 ◼   ► And I believe that there is a allthings.pizza is something that I own which I think goes

00:20:58 ◼   ► to connected. Who knows? There's many pizza related domains that you could buy, many pepperoni

00:21:04 ◼   ► ones, many pineapple ones and you could buy them all at hover. And then once you've found

00:21:08 ◼   ► that domain you're looking for. You can just use Hover Connect to set up your domain automatically

00:21:12 ◼   ► with your website in just a few clicks. You don't have to dig through hell particles

00:21:16 ◼   ► or be on the phone with someone for 6 hours just to get your domain work again anymore

00:21:20 ◼   ► because Hover have fixed that and sorted it for you. Find the perfect domain name for

00:21:24 ◼   ► your idea or even for just that joke you're trying to tell. Go to hover.com right now

00:21:28 ◼   ► and use the promo code BETA at checkout. You'll save 10% off your first purchase. Thank you

00:21:35 ◼   ► so much to Hover for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:21:41 ◼   ► So a couple of weeks ago Fedorico wrote this article on MacStories about his thinking about

00:21:49 ◼   ► the iPad, you know the fact that we didn't have many iOS 10 features for the iPad and

00:21:55 ◼   ► was kind of pontificating on the idea of following on from everything we were talking about last

00:21:59 ◼   ► year about like with the release of iOS 9.3 that we're going to see more staggered releases

00:22:04 ◼   ► of iOS and that more iOS features for the iPad would come in one of those staggered

00:22:11 ◼   ► releases.

00:22:12 ◼   ► So we would see maybe 9.3 or 10.3 I should say in March with some iPad updates that we

00:22:19 ◼   ► didn't see in September.

00:22:21 ◼   ► And I wanted to see what you thought of this Jason, we spent a lot of time maybe in February

00:22:25 ◼   ► March last year talking about the idea of Apple moving to a more staggered point release

00:22:30 ◼   ► with bigger features.

00:22:32 ◼   ► Is this something you think is gonna happen?

00:22:36 ◼   ► I know it's hard for me to separate this from what I know about, like Federico said that

00:22:44 ◼   ► this is what he thought would happen.

00:22:45 ◼   ► And so that really kind of led me down that path.

00:22:50 ◼   ► Also we got the word a little before, I think it might have been Federico, it might have

00:22:55 ◼   ► been somebody else said, "Yeah, there are no iPad features to speak of in iOS 10."

00:23:00 ◼   ► And we've gotten, I think, some hints since then that this is what's happening. It's hard

00:23:04 ◼   ► for me to say because it doesn't feel like speculation so much as it's informed. It's

00:23:10 ◼   ► like this mixture of what people want and what people hear through the grapevine might

00:23:14 ◼   ► be happening. But because it's Apple, we don't really know for sure. It's not like they made

00:23:18 ◼   ► a declaration. But it makes a lot of sense. The idea that, you know, we can't imagine

00:23:26 ◼   ► Apple as this company with superpowers. Apple has limitations and there's only so much they

00:23:31 ◼   ► can do. There's literally only so much they can do in terms of operating system development

00:23:36 ◼   ► at a time. They already do a lot. So the iPhone is their most important product. iOS updates

00:23:41 ◼   ► coincide with the release of the iPhone. All makes sense, right? So why would you not prioritize

00:23:47 ◼   ► iPhone features? And if you want to do things for the iPad but you can't prioritize them

00:23:54 ◼   ► for the major release, it really makes sense to hold them back and say, "We'll just do

00:23:59 ◼   ► those later. We'll do those in a .1 or .2 release," especially since the iPads seem

00:24:04 ◼   ► to come out after the iPhone generally anyway, right? They come out a month or two later.

00:24:10 ◼   ► So why would you not--and if they don't come out then, then that's fine too. You could

00:24:14 ◼   ► even shift them a little further back. They're not as high priority as the iPhone. And so

00:24:19 ◼   ► by taking them out of the big drop that happens in the fall and September, you actually, I

00:24:24 ◼   ► think it might be good for the iPad in that way in that, you know, they're not fighting

00:24:28 ◼   ► with the iPhone for prioritization of the main release. Instead, they are on their own

00:24:33 ◼   ► track essentially for features to be picked up and rolled out a few months later. I think

00:24:39 ◼   ► it's great actually in that way. Now let's see it happen, right? Because the alternative

00:24:43 ◼   ► is that, oh yeah, there's no iPad features. That means there are never going to be any.

00:24:48 ◼   ► That would be sad. But if most of them trail by a couple of months, I'm okay with that.

00:24:52 ◼   ► I would be, you know, I want them to be doing work on the iPad. I think giving iPads separate

00:24:57 ◼   ► prioritization is a good thing for the iPad.

00:25:01 ◼   ► What if we end up with new iPhones and new iOS in September and then new iPads and updates

00:25:10 ◼   ► to iOS in March? Like, and this just rolls out now. Like, imagine that world. That feels

00:25:15 ◼   ► pretty good, right?

00:25:18 ◼   ► six-month alternating kind of schedule would be great. I think that would be fantastic.

00:25:22 ◼   ► And I mean, I've advocated here before for the idea of Apple being a little less focused

00:25:31 ◼   ► and chained to this annual update schedule. And so this is a perfect example, right? iOS

00:25:40 ◼   ► a platform that supports two major product lines, iPhone and iPad. And why not separate

00:25:49 ◼   ► them in that way? Not separating the operating system, just separating the emphasis. And

00:25:53 ◼   ► there could still be iPhone features in a half-step release six months later. But what

00:26:00 ◼   ► if that's the story, is that the next step after BuckFixes and things like that is really

00:26:07 ◼   ► more iPad oriented because the iPad, you know, that stuff gets out of the way of the iPhone

00:26:16 ◼   ► launch in September. So I think it's, I think it'll be good. I think more, more ways Apple

00:26:21 ◼   ► can kind of spread out its, its, uh, priority list instead of trying to have it all land

00:26:26 ◼   ► at once in September. The more, the better, I think.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it would be really great for iPad owners because you end up with some new

00:26:36 ◼   ► you

00:26:55 ◼   ► and updates with drag and drop and stuff like that. So you end up, if you're a keen iPad

00:27:00 ◼   ► user like I definitely am and I know that you are becoming more and more I believe as

00:27:07 ◼   ► time goes on. That could be a really nice scenario. However, I am worried that it's

00:27:13 ◼   ► a little wishful thinking.

00:27:15 ◼   ► Well that's the little chill in the back of my neck when we talk about this. It's really

00:27:24 ◼   ► easy to say, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We're working on features for you guys too. Just wait."

00:27:29 ◼   ► And then, are they going to happen? Are those going to happen? Or is that not the case,

00:27:34 ◼   ► right? And that's... I do worry that there's a little bit of bargaining happening here,

00:27:39 ◼   ► which is we're saying, "Oh, well, we really need changes to the multitasking screen on

00:27:45 ◼   ► the iPad, but it's not in iOS 10." So rather than be sad and hope that it's there in a

00:27:52 ◼   ► a year and think about a year longer of having that bad multitasking screen, we instead start

00:27:59 ◼   ► wish casting a little bit about, "Well, maybe in November or January or March, we'll get

00:28:06 ◼   ► that thing that we all dreamed of." And like I said, it's hard to pick this stuff apart.

00:28:10 ◼   ► I seem to have gotten through the grapevine indications that that is the plan, but it's

00:28:17 ◼   ► all through the grapevine. And again, at any point, it could be amplified by our own wish

00:28:22 ◼   ► casting. So I think the truth is, until it exists, it doesn't exist. And so that's the—and

00:28:30 ◼   ► right now it has not been announced, and people can install iOS 10 on the iPad and see what's

00:28:36 ◼   ► there today. And there are some features in there that are good for iPad users. I'm really

00:28:40 ◼   ► happy about that external keyboard change that, you know, you can finally turn off autocorrect

00:28:45 ◼   ► on the hardware keyboards and leave it on for the software keyboards. There's good stuff

00:28:48 ◼   ► in there, but there's a lot of stuff that is kind of high on the wish list that's not

00:28:53 ◼   ► in there. And yeah, I hope they're working on it. I really hope they go to this kind

00:29:00 ◼   ► of schedule because it also means there's more attention being paid to the iPad because

00:29:03 ◼   ► the iPad is not going to win feature arguments against the iPhone every fall, you know, or

00:29:08 ◼   ► every spring when they're deciding what they're going to put out at WWDC and then ship in

00:29:13 ◼   ► the fall. It's not going to win. I mean, it's a fraction of the audience of the iPhone.

00:29:19 ◼   ► And while I think it's important and I think Apple is behind the iPad, it's also, you could

00:29:25 ◼   ► argue, irresponsible to over-prioritize the iPad when the iPhone is so important to your

00:29:30 ◼   ► core business. So this is great. It unhooks the iPad development cycle from the iPhone

00:29:35 ◼   ► development cycle. I mean, they're still the same OS, they're still going to pick up the

00:29:38 ◼   ► features but if you get me this idea like you don't have to compete we're gonna save

00:29:44 ◼   ► a bunch of iPad features in a little box and once we ship iOS 10 we're going to work on

00:29:49 ◼   ► those.

00:29:50 ◼   ► It would make me very happy.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Yeah right which is I think why we both are sort of saying there's a little bit of caution

00:29:58 ◼   ► that needs to happen here because it's something we want and that doesn't necessarily mean

00:30:03 ◼   ► again because we used our power for pizza instead of computer things, we may not get

00:30:08 ◼   ► it even though we want it.

00:30:11 ◼   ► So since last week's episode the public betas have been released. I currently just

00:30:19 ◼   ► give an update on my beta status. I like that.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Yes, beta status, it's time for the beta status.

00:30:27 ◼   ► My beta status has not changed. I'm still running iOS 10 on Air 2 just so I can see

00:30:31 ◼   ► the little bits and bobs, but that's all I'm doing right now. I'm not running anything

00:30:36 ◼   ► on my iPhone because the Canary app is currently crashing on launch and that is an app that

00:30:44 ◼   ► is far too important to me. I don't want that app crashing. It's my home security system.

00:30:52 ◼   ► It needs to work. So I'm going to give a mic top tip to people that are interested in installing

00:30:59 ◼   ► betas. If there are applications that are super important to you, apps that you use

00:31:05 ◼   ► every day because you love them, or apps that are important for another reason like your

00:31:09 ◼   ► home security system, what I always do is I will go to the Twitter account of that company

00:31:15 ◼   ► and look at their app replies. Because if their apps are crashing on betas, you'll see

00:31:21 ◼   ► it in the app replies because people complain, right? So then you'll know. That's how I knew

00:31:26 ◼   ► that the Canary app was crashing on the public beta because people were tweeting at them

00:31:30 ◼   ► and telling them. So I have not and will not be installing it on my phone until that is

00:31:36 ◼   ► fixed, which might not be until iOS 10 is released.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Well, this is why we always warn people, and I did it again last week. Some people complained

00:31:45 ◼   ► about it. They're like, "Oh, why do you, you know, it's fine. It's fine for me." And it's

00:31:49 ◼   ► like, yeah, okay. I had a guy who was a professional QA tester, a software tester, say, "It's fine."

00:31:54 ◼   ► I'm like, yes, thank you, professional software tester.

00:31:56 ◼   ► However, the general public should probably not install

00:32:00 ◼   ► an iOS beta because of that, exactly that,

00:32:02 ◼   ► because it may work fine for you,

00:32:05 ◼   ► but then if you've got an app,

00:32:07 ◼   ► this happened to me, I think last year or the year before,

00:32:08 ◼   ► there was an app that I used all the time and counted on,

00:32:12 ◼   ► and it just didn't work.

00:32:14 ◼   ► And so I installed iOS 10 on my iPhone last week,

00:32:19 ◼   ► and watchOS 3 on my Apple Watch,

00:32:23 ◼   ► because actually my, I think I said this,

00:32:25 ◼   ► my iPad is my most important iOS device, I decided.

00:32:29 ◼   ► I use it way more than my iPhone.

00:32:31 ◼   ► - I agree.

00:32:32 ◼   ► - That said, I'm already feeling it.

00:32:34 ◼   ► I was listening, when I was in the shower this morning,

00:32:36 ◼   ► I was listening to the flophouse on Overcast,

00:32:39 ◼   ► and this is not the first time this has happened on iOS 10.

00:32:43 ◼   ► It's happened for this last week,

00:32:44 ◼   ► which is I get in the shower,

00:32:46 ◼   ► and about one minute later, it pauses.

00:32:50 ◼   ► The audio just stops.

00:32:51 ◼   ► because this is a bug in iOS 10 right now,

00:32:53 ◼   ► is that audio to external devices

00:32:56 ◼   ► sometimes just pauses just for no reason.

00:32:59 ◼   ► It just does.

00:33:00 ◼   ► It's a bug.

00:33:01 ◼   ► It's fine, it's a bug.

00:33:02 ◼   ► But it means, oh well,

00:33:04 ◼   ► it essentially has stopped me listening to podcasts

00:33:07 ◼   ► on Bluetooth devices now

00:33:09 ◼   ► because they pause all the time.

00:33:12 ◼   ► In my car, when I'm using Bluetooth headphones.

00:33:16 ◼   ► So this is why regular people shouldn't install betas.

00:33:20 ◼   ► I'm willing to take that hit, especially because I have to write about this stuff, but it's

00:33:25 ◼   ► dangerous and if there's one thing that you rely on, like you rely on that Canary app,

00:33:30 ◼   ► that's enough of a reason not to.

00:33:33 ◼   ► And there's a reason why I've got my iPad Pro not on the 10 data, is that I want one

00:33:42 ◼   ► device I can rely on.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm probably going to install one of the developer betas on one of my iPad Pros,

00:33:52 ◼   ► probably the 9.7, in a couple more revisions, maybe three or four, just so I have a device

00:33:58 ◼   ► that I'm using every day that has it.

00:34:00 ◼   ► And whilst that is a critical device, I know it's crazy, but I have a backup, right?

00:34:06 ◼   ► I have a whole nother physical iPad that I can use.

00:34:10 ◼   ► But also the applications in there, whilst I use them every day, there's nothing like

00:34:14 ◼   ► Canary, right?

00:34:16 ◼   ► So if Tweetbot crashes, I can just use a Twitter app, right?

00:34:20 ◼   ► If Quip crashes, then I'll just save my notes into another application and copy and paste

00:34:25 ◼   ► them on another device, right?

00:34:26 ◼   ► But something like Canary on my iPhone can't be replaced.

00:34:31 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:34:32 ◼   ► And I'm at the point now where I'm just thinking, if it's an issue for the Canary app on my

00:34:37 ◼   ► iPhone, then I'll just make sure that Lauren's iPhone's got the canary app. That is the other

00:34:41 ◼   ► thing that I've got is I've got a backup of another iPhone that's around enough of the

00:34:45 ◼   ► time that when, especially for something like that, when I'm out of the house and she's

00:34:50 ◼   ► out of the house, we're usually together and traveling. So it's fine. But yeah, it's complicated

00:34:57 ◼   ► and everybody's going to have to make up their minds about it. The problem with iOS, and

00:35:03 ◼   ► I wrote about this on Six Colors last week, is you can't reboot to the other partition

00:35:08 ◼   ► and go back to iOS 9, right? On the Mac, you can do that. On the Mac, you can beta test

00:35:14 ◼   ► Sierra by installing it on another device or partition or external drive and then just

00:35:20 ◼   ► reboot into it and then reboot back out of it. But iOS, you can't. You can revert. It's

00:35:25 ◼   ► painful and messy. And so we rely on our phones especially and you can't easily get back to

00:35:35 ◼   ► the old version if it's a disaster. So that really raises the bar in terms of what's worth

00:35:42 ◼   ► installing a beta on.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Yeah. So, you know, if you really... I'm not gonna say to you, "Don't do it," right? Because

00:35:50 ◼   ► I have done it and I will do it and I've done it for years, but I would just say make sure

00:35:54 ◼   ► do your due diligence before you do it. And if there is an app that is incredibly important

00:35:59 ◼   ► to you, then just check it out before you go ahead and do it, right?

00:36:03 ◼   ► That is true with any software upgrade, not just betas. Any software upgrade. When it

00:36:08 ◼   ► comes time to like the Sierra update in the fall, that's part of the advice I always give

00:36:12 ◼   ► to people is, go online. If there's a mission critical app that you use, go online and find,

00:36:19 ◼   ► Go online. Go to your modem. Beep beep! Go online. No. Just do a web search, okay? Do

00:36:25 ◼   ► a Google search for your app and the operating system you're thinking of upgrading to and

00:36:31 ◼   ► see if there is a message board thread a thousand posts long that says "Oh, it doesn't work!

00:36:37 ◼   ► Ahh!" Because that might be a sign not to update yet, right? It's pretty simple and

00:36:41 ◼   ► yet people don't do it and I feel so bad because they're like "Oh no, now this program that

00:36:45 ◼   ► that I use every day suddenly doesn't work.

00:36:48 ◼   ► And it turns out, yeah, there's a whole thing over there,

00:36:50 ◼   ► this article about how it's one of the apps

00:36:53 ◼   ► that doesn't work and it's gonna be three months

00:36:54 ◼   ► before there's an update and you shouldn't update.

00:36:57 ◼   ► So again, it's just, that's one of the unfortunate things

00:37:00 ◼   ► about how the software stuff works

00:37:02 ◼   ► is that OS updates break software.

00:37:05 ◼   ► And if you rely on that software, don't update.

00:37:09 ◼   ► And fortunately now you can search the web

00:37:11 ◼   ► and find fairly readily on like day one, day two,

00:37:15 ◼   ► what's broken and then just not update.

00:37:18 ◼   ► - So you said that you're now,

00:37:22 ◼   ► you have Sierra on an SSD boot drive, right?

00:37:27 ◼   ► You've got a completely external drive

00:37:30 ◼   ► which you're running the beta on.

00:37:32 ◼   ► - Right, so I had a 13 inch MacBook Pro

00:37:35 ◼   ► that was supplied by Apple when I did my hands on

00:37:38 ◼   ► with the first developer beta.

00:37:40 ◼   ► And so I've got that, but that's Apple's

00:37:42 ◼   ► and they're gonna want it back soon.

00:37:44 ◼   ► And I want for this,

00:37:47 ◼   ► plus it's this laptop that's sitting behind me.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Like I want the ability to sit here at my desk

00:37:54 ◼   ► with my iMac and work on my,

00:37:57 ◼   ► like my photos book that I have to update

00:37:59 ◼   ► for iOS 10 and Sierra, any other stuff I wanna do.

00:38:04 ◼   ► But I'm not ready to install it on my main partition.

00:38:08 ◼   ► And for all those reasons, for last summer,

00:38:10 ◼   ► I had to reboot into a generic Yosemite install

00:38:13 ◼   ► whenever I wanted to do a podcast,

00:38:15 ◼   ► because it broke, the El Capitan betas broke

00:38:19 ◼   ► all of my USB audio.

00:38:21 ◼   ► So I didn't wanna make that mistake this time.

00:38:24 ◼   ► So I bought an external SSD

00:38:28 ◼   ► and installed Sierra on that.

00:38:31 ◼   ► And I can boot onto that at any time.

00:38:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm gonna stay away from the macOS betas.

00:38:38 ◼   ► There's nothing in there that's super exciting to me

00:38:40 ◼   ► that would draw me to it, right?

00:38:42 ◼   ► Like I will be holding off installing Sierra

00:38:45 ◼   ► when it's released for a while

00:38:47 ◼   ► because of the type of work that I do.

00:38:50 ◼   ► I'm scared something's gonna break.

00:38:52 ◼   ► - Well, I'm torn between these two issues, right?

00:38:56 ◼   ► Which is I have to use,

00:38:58 ◼   ► and ultimately I will have to use it on my real data

00:39:00 ◼   ► because you really can't just reboot.

00:39:04 ◼   ► I said this last week, you can't reboot and go "doo doo doo, I'm using a beta" and then

00:39:07 ◼   ► reboot back and do your work because you're not using the beta, you're noodling around

00:39:11 ◼   ► in that beta for 20 minutes and then you're going back and living with it.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Right, and that's why I always want to end up putting iOS on something, right?

00:39:20 ◼   ► Because on that Air 2, all I'm doing is getting the occasional message and just looking at

00:39:24 ◼   ► that, like again I'm just seeing what the messages stuff is, but I'm not like using

00:39:28 ◼   ► the new widgets or anything like that, like I'm not doing that because it's not a device

00:39:31 ◼   ► that I'm actually getting work done on that day.

00:39:35 ◼   ► So what's probably going to happen for me, because I am both a person who's writing about

00:39:39 ◼   ► new tech and somebody who relies on stable systems to do my job, and the podcasting is

00:39:48 ◼   ► much more about this than writing. Writing, you can write anywhere. I mean, even, there

00:39:52 ◼   ► were betas of OS X last summer where BBEdic crashed all the time. And Rich Siegel said

00:39:59 ◼   ► it was Apple's fault, I'm going to take him at his word, but you know, BB Edit crashed

00:40:05 ◼   ► all the time and I write in BB Edit. And the answer was, I wrote in something else. But

00:40:09 ◼   ► it's like, there are other apps I could use and I wrote in something else while BB Edit

00:40:14 ◼   ► crashed and then it got fixed and that was great. Podcasting is different, right? There

00:40:20 ◼   ► aren't a million different ways to do podcasting. Like, I need my tools to record and edit and

00:40:27 ◼   ► talk over IP with the people I'm doing podcasts with and that is that requires a stable platform.

00:40:35 ◼   ► So last year it really bit me and this year I think what I'm probably going to do at some

00:40:40 ◼   ► point is the ol' switcheroo which is at some point I will feel like the Sierra Beta is

00:40:45 ◼   ► far enough along that I will install it on my main system but I will turn that external

00:40:51 ◼   ► SSD into the refuge that is using El Capitan.

00:41:01 ◼   ► And then if I have any technical issues, I can always do what I did all of last summer,

00:41:06 ◼   ► which is reboot into the stable system to do that part of my job, and then reboot back

00:41:10 ◼   ► into the unstable beta to do that part of my job.

00:41:14 ◼   ► But this time, sort of planned instead of the last time where I was—I wiped out my

00:41:18 ◼   ► my bootcamp partition because I desperately had to install

00:41:22 ◼   ► Yosemite because I was, all my podcasts were failing

00:41:25 ◼   ► and it was not a good scene.

00:41:26 ◼   ► So I wanna talk for a second about the SSD.

00:41:30 ◼   ► It's a hundred bucks I bought on Amazon,

00:41:32 ◼   ► a 256 gig Samsung USB 3 SSD.

00:41:37 ◼   ► And it's incredibly small.

00:41:40 ◼   ► If you're thinking of like portable hard drives,

00:41:42 ◼   ► this is an SSD, so there's nothing to it at all.

00:41:45 ◼   ► In fact, I've got it tucked into the mounting bracket

00:41:50 ◼   ► on the back of my iMac,

00:41:51 ◼   ► where there's a mounting bracket for the VESA mount,

00:41:53 ◼   ► because I've got my iMacs on an arm,

00:41:56 ◼   ► and there's a little space there where there's nothing.

00:41:59 ◼   ► And so the drive just sits in there.

00:42:03 ◼   ► So it's like an internal drive in the sense

00:42:05 ◼   ► that from the front of the computer,

00:42:06 ◼   ► I can't even see that it's there.

00:42:07 ◼   ► It's just kind of clinging.

00:42:09 ◼   ► It's like a barnacle.

00:42:10 ◼   ► It's just clinging to the side of the iMac.

00:42:13 ◼   ► And it's fast, it's USB 3, so it's fast.

00:42:15 ◼   ► And that's worked pretty well.

00:42:17 ◼   ► And so for me, $100 for 256 outboard,

00:42:20 ◼   ► I've heard since Marco Arment told me

00:42:22 ◼   ► that he's got like two gigs on an external USB SSD

00:42:25 ◼   ► that he uses for a lot of his extra stuff

00:42:28 ◼   ► and is very happy with it too.

00:42:29 ◼   ► So I just, I'd never bought an external SSD

00:42:34 ◼   ► that was not a like a little thumb drive,

00:42:36 ◼   ► but like a big drive drive kind of thing.

00:42:40 ◼   ► And it's cool.

00:42:42 ◼   ► So I'm using that, that's my boot drive now for Sierra.

00:42:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was looking at those Samsung SSDs on Amazon here,

00:42:51 ◼   ► just kind of seeing what they were like,

00:42:54 ◼   ► and I was interested in one of the,

00:42:56 ◼   ► maybe getting one of the bigger ones.

00:42:58 ◼   ► That's expensive. - Right.

00:42:59 ◼   ► They go, I mean, Marco was saying

00:43:01 ◼   ► that you can get a small hard drive enclosure,

00:43:06 ◼   ► just a generic hard drive enclosure,

00:43:07 ◼   ► and then buy one of Samsung's internal,

00:43:10 ◼   ► internal SSDs that are made for laptop drive size

00:43:15 ◼   ► and save a lot of money that way.

00:43:18 ◼   ► And I decided I didn't wanna do that for this.

00:43:20 ◼   ► I just wanted something super small and easy

00:43:22 ◼   ► and I could drop it in.

00:43:23 ◼   ► But we'll see how it goes with this because,

00:43:26 ◼   ► you know, on my iMac, I feel the storage crunch.

00:43:31 ◼   ► I absolutely do.

00:43:32 ◼   ► And I've got the, what, I think I've got the 500 gig drive.

00:43:37 ◼   ► And I feel the storage crunch.

00:43:40 ◼   ► I'm always moving things off to my Drobo

00:43:43 ◼   ► because I've got big podcast files and things like that,

00:43:46 ◼   ► especially when I'm doing video.

00:43:47 ◼   ► So, yeah, I would consider, if this goes well,

00:43:51 ◼   ► I would consider using it once the beta is done,

00:43:53 ◼   ► either as just outboard storage

00:43:55 ◼   ► or doing something like what Marco has described

00:43:58 ◼   ► and to save a little bit of money,

00:44:00 ◼   ► you know, finding a cheap-ish SSD and enclosure,

00:44:04 ◼   ► and then like Velcroing it to the back of my iMac or something just to get another like

00:44:09 ◼   ► a terabyte of flash or something. That would be great.

00:44:12 ◼   ► Yeah like the um I could get like one of the 250 gigabyte ones that they have that you

00:44:18 ◼   ► have like a hundred pounds here but I was kind of interested in like some bigger storage

00:44:23 ◼   ► but that's that gets expensive real quick.

00:44:27 ◼   ► the terabyte so yeah so the drive that I bought which was the Samsung t3 is is

00:44:35 ◼   ► 256 it was $100 but the the it gets expensive rapidly so the 500 is is $200

00:44:43 ◼   ► and the terabyte is $360 and the two terabyte is $750 so it gets it gets yeah

00:44:51 ◼   ► it gets more expensive I I thought 250 that's good enough for my booting into

00:44:55 ◼   ► the beta. I mean that's half the size of my internal storage now so I've

00:44:59 ◼   ► increased my internal storage by a lot if this is basically it's not quite as

00:45:04 ◼   ► fast as internal storage but USB 3 is pretty fast so yeah I got the the

00:45:09 ◼   ► 1 terabyte in my iMac and I even sometimes feel the crunch right like

00:45:15 ◼   ► because of the types of files that we do and just some videos that I make like

00:45:20 ◼   ► like the Cortex YouTube videos, they take up a bunch of space, uh, and it adds up quite

00:45:26 ◼   ► quickly, and there's just some stuff that I would like to offload, but I would want

00:45:29 ◼   ► a relatively chunky drive to offload it to, which brings me back to that whole, like,

00:45:35 ◼   ► network-attached stuff, which I am gonna do at some point, and, you know.

00:45:39 ◼   ► >> I'm very happy that I've got the Drobo, and that it is, although it does make some

00:45:43 ◼   ► noise, it's, uh, kind of on the other side of the room from me, and so it's not, it's

00:45:47 ◼   ► not really a problem and if I had a better place to put it that was

00:45:50 ◼   ► completely out of the way of where I am I would but I don't yeah um but I like

00:45:56 ◼   ► it at the same time even over Gigabit Ethernet I mean it is a network drive

00:46:00 ◼   ► and having something that is just local attached fast storage for for you know

00:46:09 ◼   ► working on is is something that I I would do with something like this SSD

00:46:15 ◼   ► and would not really do on the Drobo that's attached by ethernet.

00:46:20 ◼   ► Alright should we take a break?

00:46:22 ◼   ► Yeah I think so.

00:46:23 ◼   ► This week's episode is also brought to you by the Ring video doorbell.

00:46:29 ◼   ► This is so cool.

00:46:30 ◼   ► I think this is so awesome.

00:46:31 ◼   ► With Ring you will be able to see and talk to anyone who is at your door from anywhere

00:46:35 ◼   ► in the world using your trusty smartphone and you can protect your home and loved ones

00:46:39 ◼   ► today if you go to ring.com/upgrade and for a limited time you can get $50 off their Ring

00:46:45 ◼   ► Ring of Security Kit. Now let me tell you why a product like this is important. Every

00:46:51 ◼   ► 13 seconds there is a home burglary. Many of them happen in broad daylight so a burglar

00:46:58 ◼   ► will come to your door, they will ring your doorbell, knock on the door to check if you're

00:47:02 ◼   ► in before they break in because they're not looking to kind of get caught right? They

00:47:07 ◼   ► just want to see if you're there and then they will maybe come in and take some things.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Which is a horrible thing to talk about but it is something you need to think about. And

00:47:15 ◼   ► and everybody knows who's been listening to these shows recently. I've been on a bit of

00:47:17 ◼   ► a home security kick and as we're approaching getting our own place I can't wait to have

00:47:23 ◼   ► my new home also secured by a Ring video doorbell because they have been proven to stop burglaries

00:47:31 ◼   ► before they happen and this is because it allows you to see and then speak to anybody

00:47:36 ◼   ► that approaches your door using your smartphone because they have this motion detection inside.

00:47:41 ◼   ► It isn't just like they press the bell and then it pops up on your phone. The motion

00:47:44 ◼   ► detection in the Ring Video Doorbell can see when someone is walking to your home and then

00:47:47 ◼   ► it can alert you before they have even pressed it. So it's ready which I think is really

00:47:51 ◼   ► great and the reason that that is so great is because now they have something called

00:47:55 ◼   ► their Stick Up Cam which is where they have taken all the motion stuff and the camera

00:47:59 ◼   ► stuff and put it into a home security camera. It's wireless and weatherproof and it's HD

00:48:04 ◼   ► and this is now they have bundled this together with their Ring Video Doorbell into what they

00:48:09 ◼   ► call the Ring of Security Kit and this helps you keep an eye on all the parts of the property.

00:48:13 ◼   ► You have the doorbell on the front door,

00:48:14 ◼   ► then you can have the wireless stick up cam

00:48:18 ◼   ► on the back door or maybe on the side of the property.

00:48:20 ◼   ► And then you can make sure that you've got eyes

00:48:22 ◼   ► on everything at all times.

00:48:23 ◼   ► The Ring Video Doorbell and Stick Up Cam

00:48:25 ◼   ► take just minutes to install.

00:48:26 ◼   ► They work together and provide you with 24/7 monitoring

00:48:30 ◼   ► of your entire home, whether you're in the living room

00:48:32 ◼   ► or thousands of miles away.

00:48:34 ◼   ► This is just a great way to have some peace of mind,

00:48:38 ◼   ► let alone to actually help if something bad happens.

00:48:41 ◼   ► So you just know you've got that stuff there.

00:48:43 ◼   ► you can check in on the home whenever you want in the great app. It's all good to go.

00:48:47 ◼   ► You can join the hundreds of thousands who protect their home with Ring and for a limited

00:48:51 ◼   ► time listeners of this show can save $50 off the Ring of Security kit. This is the lowest

00:48:56 ◼   ► price that you're going to find anywhere. So go to ring.com/upgrade and claim your $50

00:49:00 ◼   ► off. Thank you so much to Ring for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:49:06 ◼   ► Jason, can you explain to me the pains of iCloud Family Sharing? Is it even called that

00:49:13 ◼   ► still? iCloud Family Sharing?

00:49:16 ◼   ► Family Sharing, I think is what it's called. I don't know. This is actually a thing we've

00:49:20 ◼   ► had on our list of things to talk about for ages now. And it, I thought it was worth talking

00:49:29 ◼   ► about now, things are a little quieter in the summertime, so that's good. But it's a

00:49:38 ◼   ► problem and I actually just reached a conclusion. Since Apple changed the pricing on iCloud

00:49:43 ◼   ► a little bit last fall, I realized that I need to get over my stinginess about this

00:49:49 ◼   ► and just give in. Like, I have to learn to love Big Brother. So the story is, their family

00:49:59 ◼   ► there's family sharing in iCloud now.

00:50:01 ◼   ► So like my wife and my daughter and my son

00:50:04 ◼   ► all now have separate Apple IDs,

00:50:06 ◼   ► but they're all on the family account.

00:50:08 ◼   ► And what that means is that if I buy an app

00:50:10 ◼   ► or they buy an app, we all basically can use those apps.

00:50:13 ◼   ► There's some limitations,

00:50:14 ◼   ► I think in-app purchases don't translate,

00:50:17 ◼   ► but it's good.

00:50:19 ◼   ► Everybody's on their own plan,

00:50:22 ◼   ► they've got their own backup,

00:50:23 ◼   ► and yet there's some stuff that's shared between us.

00:50:28 ◼   ► So it's a nice idea.

00:50:29 ◼   ► I have to say, I'm disappointed that they didn't announce

00:50:33 ◼   ► any expansions of iCloud family sharing in iOS 10,

00:50:36 ◼   ► because it seems like it's so a first step

00:50:40 ◼   ► and where's the second step?

00:50:42 ◼   ► And I was hoping we would see it at WWDC

00:50:47 ◼   ► or in the iOS 10 betas, and it seems to not have happened.

00:50:49 ◼   ► Although I'm gonna hold out hope

00:50:51 ◼   ► that it's something that could be added

00:50:52 ◼   ► because it is so intertwined with Apple services

00:50:54 ◼   ► that this may be something that comes later

00:50:57 ◼   ► as we get closer to the fall.

00:50:58 ◼   ► But again, as we said before,

00:51:00 ◼   ► could be wish casting on my part.

00:51:02 ◼   ► So here are the challenges with it.

00:51:04 ◼   ► Although we can sort of share apps and stuff now,

00:51:06 ◼   ► instead of the old model,

00:51:07 ◼   ► which was everybody just was logged into the same Apple ID.

00:51:10 ◼   ► And I would enter my password in on my daughter's phone

00:51:13 ◼   ► when she wanted to buy a game.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Now she can do that and she can ask me

00:51:18 ◼   ► and I can give her permission and it's better this way.

00:51:22 ◼   ► But here's what we can't do.

00:51:23 ◼   ► Like I have a terabyte of iCloud data for photos

00:51:27 ◼   ► because I have a huge photo library

00:51:28 ◼   ► and also I write a book about photos

00:51:30 ◼   ► and I need to write about the experience

00:51:31 ◼   ► of syncing my photo library with iCloud.

00:51:34 ◼   ► So terabyte, it's great.

00:51:35 ◼   ► I'm not using it all.

00:51:36 ◼   ► My photo library is like 550 gigabytes or something like that.

00:51:39 ◼   ► - Wow, that's big.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - It's big.

00:51:41 ◼   ► It's every digital photo that I've taken since 2001.

00:51:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I knew that you kind of had everything,

00:51:46 ◼   ► but that's a lot of photos, right?

00:51:48 ◼   ► - It's a lot of photos.

00:51:49 ◼   ► And it's useful for a stress test of iCloud photo library.

00:51:54 ◼   ► Right?

00:51:55 ◼   ► - One of the funny things about that is like over time,

00:51:58 ◼   ► it was okay, right?

00:51:59 ◼   ► You had this building photo library

00:52:02 ◼   ► and over time storage got cheaper.

00:52:05 ◼   ► So the fact that the photo library was getting bigger

00:52:07 ◼   ► kind of scaled, but then something happened,

00:52:09 ◼   ► which was SSD and cloud storage.

00:52:11 ◼   ► And then it became way more expensive to store those files.

00:52:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so now the idea is you do optimized storage

00:52:18 ◼   ► on your Mac and those, although I have, actually it's that Mac Mini that's attached to the

00:52:25 ◼   ► Drobo, that's where my canonical photo library still lives, but you can theoretically now

00:52:32 ◼   ► have it live in the cloud, not have the originals on your Mac or your iPhone and pay Apple to

00:52:38 ◼   ► store it on iCloud.

00:52:40 ◼   ► And so there are different tiers, Apple changed the tier structure, I'm paying the same, I

00:52:47 ◼   ► didn't actually get a price cut when they changed their

00:52:50 ◼   ► tiers because what they did was eliminate the 500,

00:52:53 ◼   ► I think there's a 500, maybe I'm at 400 gigabytes.

00:52:55 ◼   ► I was in the 500 gigabyte tier

00:52:58 ◼   ► and now I'm in the one terabyte tier.

00:53:00 ◼   ► And I couldn't go down because the next one down

00:53:02 ◼   ► is too small for me.

00:53:03 ◼   ► So I'm still paying $10 a month or something like that

00:53:07 ◼   ► for this.

00:53:08 ◼   ► But here's the problem with it.

00:53:09 ◼   ► I can't share my giant cloud of data with my family.

00:53:13 ◼   ► So I was in the position where I was paying

00:53:16 ◼   ► basically the max you can pay for iCloud storage,

00:53:19 ◼   ► $10 a month for a terabyte.

00:53:21 ◼   ► And my wife was still getting errors on her iPad and iPhone

00:53:25 ◼   ► that she couldn't back up

00:53:27 ◼   ► because she was out of five gigabytes of space.

00:53:30 ◼   ► Now, it's a separate conversation

00:53:32 ◼   ► about whether five gigabytes should be the amount

00:53:34 ◼   ► for the free storage,

00:53:35 ◼   ► because I feel like this leads to bad user experience

00:53:39 ◼   ► when, and it makes it feel like Apple's

00:53:43 ◼   ► just trying to get money out of you.

00:53:45 ◼   ► and I think they need to raise the bar a little bit.

00:53:48 ◼   ► I know they need to make money from services

00:53:49 ◼   ► or they want to make money from services, that's great.

00:53:52 ◼   ► But you gotta walk that line between

00:53:54 ◼   ► how many people do you annoy

00:53:56 ◼   ► with your automatic backup failing

00:53:58 ◼   ► because you don't have enough storage space

00:53:59 ◼   ► and wouldn't you like to update?

00:54:01 ◼   ► Maybe worth reconsidering whether it's worth it to Apple.

00:54:05 ◼   ► But the point is I spend a lot of money

00:54:08 ◼   ► on a terabyte of storage of which I'm only using about half.

00:54:12 ◼   ► And meanwhile, my wife is being bugged

00:54:15 ◼   ► that she can't store anything in her backup.

00:54:17 ◼   ► And it doesn't make sense to me that this is one of those areas

00:54:19 ◼   ► that I was hoping that Apple would change,

00:54:22 ◼   ► where essentially a family can buy an allotment

00:54:25 ◼   ► or one person's allotment covers the whole family.

00:54:28 ◼   ► -Now, you see, what's so interesting,

00:54:29 ◼   ► when you started talking about this,

00:54:30 ◼   ► is that was what I just naturally assumed

00:54:33 ◼   ► you were moving towards,

00:54:34 ◼   ► was talking about the fact that you realized

00:54:37 ◼   ► you could save the backups across the whole family.

00:54:40 ◼   ► -Nope. -So, like, with the way

00:54:42 ◼   ► that iCloud family sharing works --

00:54:44 ◼   ► gonna keep calling it that. Is there one kind of master account? So like when you

00:54:51 ◼   ► set it up I assume that it gets set up by one person and then you assign people

00:54:56 ◼   ► that are in your family. Is that how it works?

00:54:59 ◼   ► Yeah so there's a master ID and then you say who is this I'm adding this person

00:55:03 ◼   ► and they are an adult I'm adding this person and they are a child and there

00:55:06 ◼   ► are different permissions for adults and children. Right. See that's why it makes

00:55:08 ◼   ► no sense that you can't then pull the data that that one person buys. I know

00:55:12 ◼   ► - I know. - Right?

00:55:13 ◼   ► Because what's the point of everyone buying their own stuff

00:55:16 ◼   ► if then it's all being,

00:55:17 ◼   ► like if you have the same photos

00:55:19 ◼   ► all being saved independently to a backup?

00:55:22 ◼   ► - Well, all right, so you've stepped in another

00:55:26 ◼   ► related mind field there too.

00:55:28 ◼   ► And this is why I say it's so clearly

00:55:31 ◼   ► that the iTunes family stuff is a first step

00:55:35 ◼   ► and we're waiting for the second.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Where is the second step?

00:55:38 ◼   ► Is iCloud Photo Library similarly?

00:55:41 ◼   ► I can't share that across.

00:55:43 ◼   ► So I can't say that my wife and I both get to use

00:55:46 ◼   ► our iCloud photo library.

00:55:47 ◼   ► She can't see it on her devices.

00:55:49 ◼   ► I can share photos with her using the sharing system,

00:55:53 ◼   ► but I can't, she and I can't both be on

00:55:56 ◼   ► the iCloud photo library on our separate Apple IDs,

00:56:00 ◼   ► even though we're in a family,

00:56:01 ◼   ► it's just completely separate.

00:56:03 ◼   ► So that makes, she now,

00:56:05 ◼   ► if she wants to make like a calendar or something,

00:56:08 ◼   ► she just comes out here and sits on my iMac and does it

00:56:10 ◼   ► because her computer is on her Apple ID, her phone is on her Apple ID. It also means that

00:56:15 ◼   ► the picture she takes with her iPhone, I occasionally need to bring her iPhone in here and attach

00:56:19 ◼   ► it to my computer and import it so that it goes in our iCloud photo library.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Yeah, so messy. I talked to Apple about this last year, and

00:56:26 ◼   ► they, you know, it's not like Apple doesn't think about this stuff. They said that some

00:56:31 ◼   ► of the issues are, if you're in the family, do you want your stuff shared with people

00:56:36 ◼   ► in the family. And I get that, like, my daughter's a teenager. I probably don't want her photos

00:56:43 ◼   ► in my library, and she certainly doesn't want her photos in my library, right? So I can

00:56:49 ◼   ► see that an absolute sharing and merging of photo libraries is probably a bad idea. So

00:56:55 ◼   ► it's a more complex system. But, like, my wife and I are perfectly happy to share our

00:57:01 ◼   ► photo libraries. That should be one photo library. And it's not. And it's frustrating.

00:57:06 ◼   ► And my daughter, I would like her to be able to opt in or create a space for her inside

00:57:15 ◼   ► the photo library or be able to share or push photos that she does want to have saved in

00:57:23 ◼   ► the family photo library to the family photo library. These would all be nice. But right

00:57:27 ◼   ► now there's just nothing there. So not only are we not sharing data, we're not sharing

00:57:32 ◼   ► photos even though there are many cases. And there are some workarounds like, you can log

00:57:40 ◼   ► in as the other person, right? So we tried that for a while where my wife's Apple ID

00:57:47 ◼   ► was, she used my Apple ID on her iPad or her iPhone. And that will work, but it also causes

00:57:55 ◼   ► all these other problems because so many, the way iCloud works, so many things come

00:58:00 ◼   ► along with iCloud that are just, you have to be logged in as the primary for this thing

00:58:05 ◼   ► to work. So a good example is Find My Friends. Find My Friends, you can't be logged into

00:58:12 ◼   ► iCloud and see my iCloud photo library but also be on your own Apple ID looking at Find

00:58:18 ◼   ► my friends. It doesn't work. So on my wife's iPhone, she can't log in as me because if

00:58:25 ◼   ► she does, then she disappears from Find My Friends, which means I can't see her. Only

00:58:29 ◼   ► one device per Apple ID can be the official location for Find My Friends purposes. So

00:58:37 ◼   ► at that point, her dot disappears from the map because she's no longer logged in as her,

00:58:44 ◼   ► logged in as me, and either my dot on the map is represented by my iPhone or it could

00:58:48 ◼   ► be represented by her iPhone and confuse everybody, but it can't be both. So it's like a catch-22.

00:58:54 ◼   ► You're at a point where you can't have both of these features. So you end up using your

00:58:59 ◼   ► own Apple ID and not having access to the photo library. So it's, again, it's clear

00:59:06 ◼   ► this is where they need to go. I'm a little disappointed that nothing happened to WWDC,

00:59:12 ◼   ► And although I wish that we'll hear more that this may change, I feel like we would have

00:59:17 ◼   ► heard. So I don't know where it's going to go. I kind of, in the meantime, it's kind

00:59:22 ◼   ► of broken me to the point where my mother always asks about her iCloud backup, and my

00:59:28 ◼   ► wife's frustrated by the iCloud backup warnings. So at this point, I'm going to suggest that

00:59:35 ◼   ► they both just sign up for the 99 cent a month plan for 50 gigabytes just literally just

00:59:43 ◼   ► to shut up Apple's complaints about it and get their devices backed up which is it's

00:59:47 ◼   ► I mean it's $12 a year it's not a lot this is why I basically given up it's like it's

00:59:51 ◼   ► $12 a year now should Apple provide probably we just had this conversation in the chat

00:59:55 ◼   ► room probably some sort of related to how many devices are on your Apple ID that instead

01:00:00 ◼   ► of having five gigabytes free per Apple ID maybe it should be five gigabytes per device

01:00:05 ◼   ► associated with the Apple ID up to a cap or something like that, that would solve it because

01:00:09 ◼   ► really I think once you have an iPhone and an iPad and an Apple ID it gets complicated.

01:00:12 ◼   ► I just think fundamentally 5GB is ridiculous. It's the 16GB iPhone problem.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Yeah, and if the rumors are true and the new iPhones this fall are going to start at 32

01:00:22 ◼   ► then maybe this is a good time to take that number and either increase it to 10 or change

01:00:28 ◼   ► the system to be an allotment per associated device that every iPhone comes with 10GB of

01:00:34 ◼   ► cloud storage and if you want more you can pay for it.

01:00:36 ◼   ► >> Because wasn't iCloud introduced with 5GB?

01:00:41 ◼   ► Like that's insane.

01:00:42 ◼   ► >> I think this has been it since the beginning is the 5GB free on your Apple ID and then

01:00:46 ◼   ► you pay beyond that.

01:00:47 ◼   ► And it's yeah I think it's not and like I said I think it creates a bad user experience

01:00:51 ◼   ► because it gives people people get these errors if my family and friends are any indication

01:00:55 ◼   ► they get these errors oh it says that I'm it can't back me up and it's because there's

01:00:59 ◼   ► a different device backup, it's their old iPhone is still in there, or they've got an

01:01:05 ◼   ► iPhone and an iPad and they're taking up space and you get this and yeah you can pay Apple

01:01:10 ◼   ► a ransom to get those things to stop. I feel like it happens too much and that it should

01:01:17 ◼   ► be simpler. But you know, easy for me to say that, I have basically given up and for the

01:01:23 ◼   ► cost of $12 a year to get my mom to stop saying "Why do I have this error? What do I do?"

01:01:29 ◼   ► just pay the $12, just get Apple to, you know, I give up, just give Apple the money.

01:01:34 ◼   ► I just did this with my mum about two or three weeks ago. I was just like, "You're just gonna

01:01:40 ◼   ► pay this now because I'm not gonna keep having to fix this for you every couple of months

01:01:45 ◼   ► or whatever that you run into this. Let's just start paying this now." And I explained

01:01:50 ◼   ► to her why she would want it and that kind of stuff. And when I explained it to her,

01:01:53 ◼   ► she was like, "Yeah, no, I want my photos and I want my backdrops." And she was fine

01:01:57 ◼   ► with it but like nobody had explained it to her before because it hadn't become a problem

01:02:01 ◼   ► until then and then it was fine when it was explained.

01:02:03 ◼   ► I mean going back a couple of steps like I understand some of the problems around the

01:02:08 ◼   ► photo sharing stuff right like how it's a decision that has to be made and there isn't

01:02:12 ◼   ► kind of a right decision as to whether does everybody's photos get saved together or not

01:02:17 ◼   ► because they're on a family plan like I totally get that issue right that you that maybe your

01:02:22 ◼   ► daughter doesn't want all of her photos synced with you and you know and like vice versa.

01:02:26 ◼   ► in my photos synced with her.

01:02:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, like you don't want all of that.

01:02:29 ◼   ► Like that's kind of, you know,

01:02:31 ◼   ► nobody, that's not a good solution.

01:02:33 ◼   ► But I can also see why some people would want it, right?

01:02:35 ◼   ► So I can see that there's an issue with that.

01:02:36 ◼   ► But, you know, going back right to the start

01:02:38 ◼   ► of the conversation, the idea that the data

01:02:42 ◼   ► that is bought by you as kind of the master account

01:02:45 ◼   ► is not shared, especially when you can buy a terabyte

01:02:49 ◼   ► is madness.

01:02:51 ◼   ► It should be shared.

01:02:52 ◼   ► - I'm gonna end up spending whatever it is,

01:02:54 ◼   ► $10 a month on my account and a dollar a month on my wife's account just because that's what

01:03:06 ◼   ► I have to do. Yeah, it's just dumb. And again, I'm happy to give Apple money, but not only

01:03:16 ◼   ► should it be shared, but there should be more connections. And hey, what they did with the

01:03:20 ◼   ► family stuff was a good first take, right? It was a first take. My question remains,

01:03:25 ◼   ► where is step two? Where are you moving this service forward? How are you rolling this

01:03:29 ◼   ► out? And again, I would expect that to be something that's integrated with iOS 10, and

01:03:35 ◼   ► that to have been announced at WWDC. It doesn't mean that that's necessarily the case. It

01:03:41 ◼   ► could also be that that's something that's just rolled out with changes to the service,

01:03:46 ◼   ► it comes later because it's harder to roll out beta versions of your service because

01:03:55 ◼   ► you've got people on the existing and people on the new and it's possible that there was

01:04:00 ◼   ► another shoe to drop here but it seems less likely since there was no real hint of it

01:04:05 ◼   ► at WWDC and that's you know it's great I like to be generous to a certain degree with first

01:04:11 ◼   ► takes from any technology company because it's hard right I mean first 1.0 products

01:04:16 ◼   ► are not at some point you have to ship right great artists ship right famous famous words

01:04:21 ◼   ► from Steve Jobs you've got a real artist ship you got to ship it but it's a 1.0 it's gonna

01:04:25 ◼   ► have limitations I can forgive a lot of limitations in a 1.0 because I know how hard it is to

01:04:31 ◼   ► get a product out there it doesn't mean to say that 1.0 gets a pass but I can forgive

01:04:36 ◼   ► it assuming that there's follow-up and the sense that we know that this isn't the final

01:04:41 ◼   ► version, we have a lot more work to do, here we go, we're doing updates, we're addressing

01:04:47 ◼   ► all the issues, we're moving forward. The problem I've got with the iCloud family stuff

01:04:51 ◼   ► at this point is that it's a 1.0, and I see no indication that there's a 2.0. So where

01:04:58 ◼   ► is it? Maybe it's coming, I hope it is, but in all the months that this has been on our

01:05:05 ◼   ► to-do list, it hasn't changed, and really all that's changed for me to talk about it

01:05:09 ◼   ► now is that I gave up. I gave up and realized that with the new pricing plans, $12 to get

01:05:15 ◼   ► those dialogue boxes to go away, $12 a year is probably just worth it just to shut up

01:05:20 ◼   ► the warnings and let my mom have her stuff back up and let my wife have her stuff back

01:05:25 ◼   ► up and not worry about it. And maybe even my daughter. And again, $12 a month seems

01:05:30 ◼   ► really dumb, especially since I've got 400 gigs free on my own account, but that may

01:05:36 ◼   ► just be where we are. It's too bad.

01:05:38 ◼   ► It's too bad. So there's nothing that we can do to help you if you're in woes with your

01:05:43 ◼   ► family sharing problem. But there are things that we can help you do and help you with

01:05:48 ◼   ► and that's what Ask Upgrade is all about.

01:05:51 ◼   ► Ask Upgrade!

01:05:52 ◼   ► And the first question this week comes from Jacob and Jacob says, "I'm recording the first

01:05:56 ◼   ► episode of my podcast this week. It's an interview style show. Any tips to make the guest comfortable?"

01:06:01 ◼   ► Yes, Jacob, I do have some.

01:06:04 ◼   ► Make sure that you are very well prepared.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Have lots of questions ready, more questions than you think you're going to need.

01:06:11 ◼   ► One thing that I always did was write down questions that I know the answers to, because

01:06:15 ◼   ► if you know the answers to them, it will also help you prepare some follow up questions.

01:06:20 ◼   ► So you ask someone a question, they answer it, and you already know what their answer

01:06:22 ◼   ► is going to be, so you're already ready with some follow up questions as well.

01:06:27 ◼   ► So the idea is if you're well prepared for questions you won't be fumbling so much because

01:06:32 ◼   ► fumbling like, let me see now what questions shall I ask you, that makes your interviewees

01:06:38 ◼   ► feel uneasy because you don't feel prepared.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Try and chat with them a little bit before you begin the actual recording, build a little

01:06:46 ◼   ► bit of rapport with your interviewee, make them feel at ease, that this is kind of a

01:06:50 ◼   ► little bit more relaxed and they're not kind of under the spotlight.

01:06:55 ◼   ► And understand that it's going to be difficult your first time. You're not going to be perfect.

01:07:01 ◼   ► Just have fun with it and try not to beat yourself up about it. Know that you're going

01:07:05 ◼   ► to stumble around a little bit as you try and find your way. But if you accept that

01:07:08 ◼   ► that's going to be the case, then you'll feel better about it. And remember that the editing

01:07:12 ◼   ► is king. You can take out any of your problems in the edit. Any suggestions, Jason?

01:07:18 ◼   ► JASON WARNKE Yeah. I mean, you did a podcast every week

01:07:22 ◼   ► about this for a long time where you were interviewing different people and so I think

01:07:25 ◼   ► you're the master here. But preparation is good, anticipating answers, anticipating responses

01:07:31 ◼   ► is great. Keeping it natural, you know, James Lipton in the Actors Studio at the end famously

01:07:39 ◼   ► would ask a series of questions from a list but before that it seemed much more natural.

01:07:44 ◼   ► I think that's an important point not to make it feel like you're just listing questions

01:07:50 ◼   ► off and actually one of the biggest failures I see with people who are interviewing is

01:07:58 ◼   ► they ask an interesting question and their guest responds and there are very clear follow-up

01:08:03 ◼   ► questions to be had. This is a conversation. So what would you do in a normal conversation

01:08:08 ◼   ► with a person? You would follow up on what they just said and kind of continue down that

01:08:11 ◼   ► path for a little while at least. And in bad interviews what I see is somebody says something,

01:08:17 ◼   ► They've answered the question on a basic level.

01:08:19 ◼   ► They left a lot of strands for follow up

01:08:21 ◼   ► to dig down deeper into some of what they said.

01:08:24 ◼   ► And the person on the other end just asks the next question.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And it's totally unrelated.

01:08:29 ◼   ► And you can't do that because if you over prepare

01:08:34 ◼   ► and you stick to your list, it's also a bad interview.

01:08:37 ◼   ► Because at that point, it's just a questionnaire.

01:08:39 ◼   ► It's not a conversation.

01:08:40 ◼   ► And you want it to be a conversation.

01:08:42 ◼   ► So you mentioned James Lipton.

01:08:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:45 ◼   ► He is one of my interviewing heroes.

01:08:50 ◼   ► A lot of the style that I developed over the years

01:08:55 ◼   ► with "Inquisitive" when it was more of an interviewing show

01:08:59 ◼   ► came from him.

01:09:00 ◼   ► And I ended up developing some standard questions

01:09:04 ◼   ► for some of my shows that I would ask of everyone

01:09:07 ◼   ► in the style that he did.

01:09:08 ◼   ► - What do you wanna be known for, right?

01:09:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, actually, yes, exactly.

01:09:14 ◼   ► Inside the Actors Studio was a great,

01:09:17 ◼   ► it was a great, it made a great mark on me.

01:09:20 ◼   ► It was a real kind of,

01:09:22 ◼   ► just a thing that I looked to as an inspiration.

01:09:24 ◼   ► So if you're interested in ever interviewing anyone,

01:09:27 ◼   ► there's a bunch of Inside the Actors Studio on YouTube,

01:09:30 ◼   ► just go and watch that because it is just a masterclass.

01:09:33 ◼   ► - And you can see that he has an outline

01:09:35 ◼   ► because he will do that thing in the show.

01:09:37 ◼   ► I mean, some of this is because they also,

01:09:38 ◼   ► they edit the show,

01:09:40 ◼   ► but you can see where he'll,

01:09:41 ◼   ► there'll be a pause and then he'll say,

01:09:43 ◼   ► And then Tom Hanks, and then you made Saving Private Ryan, and the audience cheers, and

01:09:52 ◼   ► then he goes into his question.

01:09:53 ◼   ► So he's working from an outline because he is sketching these people's careers and all

01:09:56 ◼   ► of that.

01:09:58 ◼   ► But the important thing is inside those questions, there's a conversation happening.

01:10:02 ◼   ► It's not just a questionnaire.

01:10:04 ◼   ► At the end, he does the questionnaire, and it's just a shame that I think that sometimes

01:10:08 ◼   ► people think of that show and think of the questionnaire at the end.

01:10:10 ◼   ► The questionnaire is fun, but that's not the interview.

01:10:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just a fun little segment.

01:10:18 ◼   ► Simon asked, "Do you guys ever use Trello

01:10:22 ◼   ► or any other project tool for larger projects?"

01:10:26 ◼   ► I do use Trello, actually.

01:10:28 ◼   ► Me and Steven use Trello to manage

01:10:31 ◼   ► some of our sponsorship stuff.

01:10:33 ◼   ► So the way that Trello works is you kind of have

01:10:35 ◼   ► these boards and then you move cards from board to board.

01:10:38 ◼   ► So we'll do stuff like if we've contacted a company

01:10:41 ◼   ► or a company's contacted us,

01:10:42 ◼   ► and then if we're in the process of working with a company,

01:10:45 ◼   ► if we've sold spots with a company,

01:10:47 ◼   ► and we can move the card of each related company

01:10:49 ◼   ► from board to board as they kind of move through our process

01:10:52 ◼   ► of sponsorship and advertising sales.

01:10:55 ◼   ► So we use them for that, and it's fantastic.

01:10:57 ◼   ► It's actually made me a lot better

01:10:59 ◼   ► at tracking what's going on,

01:11:01 ◼   ► because we have a good system for it that we both share,

01:11:04 ◼   ► and it's made us much more effective.

01:11:06 ◼   ► So I really love Trello for that.

01:11:09 ◼   ► And we've used it for some goals and stuff,

01:11:11 ◼   ► like by quarter, things you want to achieve,

01:11:14 ◼   ► and you can move the cards around depending

01:11:15 ◼   ► on if you meet the goals or not in the time frames.

01:11:19 ◼   ► Yeah, Trello is really good for that stuff.

01:11:20 ◼   ► It's a nice way to kind of visually track things.

01:11:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think, I've used Trello.

01:11:27 ◼   ► I don't think it necessarily works the way that I work,

01:11:30 ◼   ► as you can go back to our organizational episode

01:11:33 ◼   ► where I discussed my non-organizational

01:11:35 ◼   ► organizational method.

01:11:36 ◼   ► - It ain't in a calendar, Jason don't want it.

01:11:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:39 ◼   ► - But I have used it.

01:11:41 ◼   ► I've used it there.

01:11:43 ◼   ► I can view some of the relay Trello stuff.

01:11:46 ◼   ► Tidbits uses Trello for all of its book production

01:11:50 ◼   ► for the take control books.

01:11:51 ◼   ► And since I write a book for them,

01:11:54 ◼   ► I'm in there seeing their tracking.

01:11:57 ◼   ► And that's a good example

01:11:58 ◼   ► where they're all bunch of different books.

01:11:59 ◼   ► They're moving through a process from,

01:12:01 ◼   ► essentially from left to right.

01:12:02 ◼   ► It's very much like the board of cards

01:12:03 ◼   ► that we used to have at Macworld and Macuser back in the day

01:12:07 ◼   ► that was our visual, literally every story was on a card

01:12:11 ◼   ► or section was on an index card.

01:12:15 ◼   ► And you started with, you know, not in

01:12:18 ◼   ► and moved to like story in, story copy edited,

01:12:21 ◼   ► story to back to editor, story to art,

01:12:24 ◼   ► layouts to copy edit, layouts to editor,

01:12:28 ◼   ► final proof shipped.

01:12:30 ◼   ► And that was left to right across the board.

01:12:32 ◼   ► and every card would move from left to right across the board until it got to the end.

01:12:36 ◼   ► Trello reminds me of that a lot. And the take control Trello really looks like that, where

01:12:41 ◼   ► they're going through the different process of like, here are the stages we need to go

01:12:43 ◼   ► in. And for that, actually, I think that's a really great way of doing it. I've tried

01:12:47 ◼   ► to do some stuff with Trello, but I think the projects that I've been working are not

01:12:50 ◼   ► so much in that. I have a lot of things, especially recurring projects, that I've internalized.

01:12:56 ◼   ► If I'm not working with other people, I just kind of have my own internal system. I don't

01:13:00 ◼   ► use other tracking, but I do a lot of Google sheets, actually, for a lot of my stuff, and

01:13:06 ◼   ► that has to do with more about scheduling than anything else for projects, but once

01:13:10 ◼   ► you get a complex, larger project, like Simon's asking for larger projects, I think, yeah,

01:13:15 ◼   ► I've been impressed with Trello. Trello is, a lot of these I see and my response is something

01:13:20 ◼   ► like, "Oh, forget it," right? And with Trello, no, I use it and I get it, and I just don't,

01:13:27 ◼   ► I don't think I've had the opportunity to use it as much as I probably, uh, I would

01:13:31 ◼   ► use it if I had opportunities to use it more.

01:13:33 ◼   ► Yeah, Trello is built off of a system called Kanban, which that was the system that you

01:13:39 ◼   ► were using, uh, with those cards, right?

01:13:42 ◼   ► The idea of moving from thing to thing.

01:13:45 ◼   ► Trello's based on that, which is why it's used in development so much.

01:13:47 ◼   ► This is a very, like, Kanban is used a lot in software development, so.

01:13:52 ◼   ► That's why Trello works so well for so many teams for project management.

01:13:55 ◼   ► It's a great tool.

01:13:56 ◼   ► It's really good

01:13:58 ◼   ► Paul asked what are the three best uses that you have for your Apple watch right now?

01:14:03 ◼   ► And what three new features from watch OS 3 are you looking forward to good question from Paul?

01:14:08 ◼   ► so for me right now the things that I used my

01:14:13 ◼   ► Watch for timers. So cooking timers a lot when I'm making coffee. I use the timer on my watch and stuff

01:14:19 ◼   ► So I'm really looking forward to the new UI of timers

01:14:23 ◼   ► uh... where you able to just select from frequently used times rather than using

01:14:28 ◼   ► the

01:14:29 ◼   ► scl the uh... digital crown to try and get three minutes when you like although

01:14:33 ◼   ► four minutes are two minutes

01:14:35 ◼   ► uh... want the precise miss that that

01:14:37 ◼   ► uh... i use it for notifications a lot and also for the my weather

01:14:40 ◼   ► complication which is from carol weather

01:14:43 ◼   ► uh... is the car with the complications my favorite

01:14:45 ◼   ► as so as well as the timer stuff i'm looking forward to uh... foster access

01:14:50 ◼   ► to apps in general with the dock

01:14:52 ◼   ► and also

01:14:53 ◼   ► The little details that will come through now that watchOS 3 feels like it's maybe been

01:15:00 ◼   ► more developed by usage.

01:15:04 ◼   ► So you know Apple engineers and developers and designers have been using their watches

01:15:10 ◼   ► for a longer time and it feels like maybe watchOS 3 has been built with that in mind.

01:15:14 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to like the nitpicky details of watchOS 3 and how that will affect

01:15:19 ◼   ► my usage.

01:15:20 ◼   ► My responses are very similar to yours. Now playing is the one that I would

01:15:24 ◼   ► mention that didn't come up there. I use that a lot when I'm walking

01:15:28 ◼   ► or running and I've got my Bluetooth headphones in.

01:15:32 ◼   ► They're behind my, the cord goes behind my head, that's how I've got them set up

01:15:36 ◼   ► and so it's easier for me to do

01:15:40 ◼   ► pause play forward on my watch using the Now Playing widget

01:15:44 ◼   ► or app in WatchOS 3 than it is to

01:15:48 ◼   ► than it is to use the little clicker on the back of my headphones. Also the

01:15:53 ◼   ► clicker makes beeps and stuff where this is silent it just goes to the next thing

01:15:57 ◼   ► or it pauses or whatever which I like better. So I use that but yeah timer

01:16:02 ◼   ► notifications and weather. I use weather underground because that lets me see my

01:16:08 ◼   ► own weather station so it's the actual temperature at my house but same idea

01:16:14 ◼   ► and I'm looking forward to similarly background updating so the temperature

01:16:17 ◼   ► is always the current temperature instead of the last time that app happened to launch.

01:16:23 ◼   ► And you know, I'm looking forward to it.

01:16:26 ◼   ► >> Yeah, it's going to be good. This is one of the things, I want to install iOS 10 because

01:16:31 ◼   ► I want watchOS 3.

01:16:33 ◼   ► >> It's pretty good so far. I'm pretty happy with it. The reality is that some apps don't

01:16:37 ◼   ► work right on it. And it's not surprising, I think some of them are like watchOS 1 original

01:16:43 ◼   ► apps that didn't really get much of an update for watchOS 2 and now on watchOS 3. Some of

01:16:47 ◼   ► them, you know, I don't want to say they spin forever because that suggests what happens

01:16:53 ◼   ► in watchOS 2, which is that they launch, it takes forever for them to launch. It's more

01:16:56 ◼   ► like they launch and then they don't do anything. And that's just, it's a beta and those are

01:17:01 ◼   ► old apps and it's understandable. But that's my only problem with it so far. But still,

01:17:10 ◼   ► it's good. It's already a better experience, I would say, than watchOS 2.

01:17:15 ◼   ► And finally, Luke has asked, "What happened to Myke at the Movies?" So, yes, we haven't

01:17:19 ◼   ► done one for a while. So this is that hot breaking Myke at the Movies news that you

01:17:25 ◼   ► were all waiting for. This is episode number 97, so episode 100 is coming up soon.

01:17:31 ◼   ► It is.

01:17:32 ◼   ► So we're going to do a Myke at the Movies for episode 100, and Jason, would you like

01:17:36 ◼   ► to tell everyone what you would like me to watch?

01:17:40 ◼   ► I would. Let me give you a hint.

01:17:45 ◼   ► KAAAAAN!

01:17:49 ◼   ► Oh, so we're gonna watch Star Trek Into Darkness. I've seen that movie.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Isn't that the movie?

01:17:55 ◼   ► Sure. Yeah, let's just watch that again. No, we're gonna watch

01:17:59 ◼   ► Star Trek II colon The Wrath of Khan from the 80s, a movie you haven't seen

01:18:04 ◼   ► because you've only seen the J.J. Abrams Star Trek movies, none of the old Star Trek movies.

01:18:08 ◼   ► So we're going to watch the best of them. And in fact, a new cleaned up edition just

01:18:13 ◼   ► came out on Blu-ray. If people like Star Trek II, you could go get that director's edition.

01:18:17 ◼   ► It looks beautiful. And yeah, so that's what we're going to do for the episode that posts

01:18:25 ◼   ► like August 1st. We'll have our regular stuff in there and then we'll do Micah and the Movies

01:18:28 ◼   ► at the end where we talk about Star Trek II. The Wrath of Khan generally considered the

01:18:32 ◼   ► best Star Trek movie and one of my favorites.

01:18:35 ◼   ► - Electric Boogaloo.

01:18:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, "Star Trek II", electric.

01:18:39 ◼   ► You know, we were watching the other day,

01:18:40 ◼   ► we were watching something, some old movie,

01:18:43 ◼   ► like something that we considered fairly old.

01:18:45 ◼   ► It was from the '80s and there was,

01:18:46 ◼   ► oh no, it wasn't an old movie.

01:18:47 ◼   ► It was a "Mystery Science Theater 3000" episode

01:18:49 ◼   ► from the late '80s, early '90s.

01:18:53 ◼   ► And they made an electric boogaloo joke.

01:18:56 ◼   ► And Lauren turned to me and said,

01:18:58 ◼   ► "Wow, I guess that's a really old reference."

01:19:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:05 ◼   ► things from 25 years ago were making jokes about electric boogaloo. So maybe that's kind

01:19:13 ◼   ► of an old joke, is what I'm saying. But anyway, we will do the Wrath of Khan. Great stuff

01:19:18 ◼   ► in there. I hope you like it. But you've seen Star Trek Into Darkness, so it's going to

01:19:22 ◼   ► be this really bizarre thing where you've seen the thing that is... and some people

01:19:25 ◼   ► really hate Into Darkness because they think that it's just a ripoff of Star Trek II. As

01:19:29 ◼   ► somebody who loves Star Trek II, I like Into Darkness because I feel like what it's doing

01:19:33 ◼   ► is it's playing on our expectations and riffing off of Star Trek 2 but doing things differently.

01:19:38 ◼   ► I like that about it. I see why some people hate it, but I really dig it. And I like a

01:19:43 ◼   ► movie that's entirely pandering to me as a fan of Star Trek 2. But you saw that movie

01:19:48 ◼   ► and not Star Trek 2. So for you, it'll all be happening backward.

01:19:52 ◼   ► If you'd like to find the show notes for this week's episode, head on over to relay.fm/upgrades/97.

01:19:59 ◼   ► I won't be putting a link to Star Trek in there.

01:20:04 ◼   ► So you know, spoilers.

01:20:05 ◼   ► You know, I won't spoil it at the top because people will see it in there.

01:20:08 ◼   ► What I have put in is a link to break into Electric Boogaloo so people will think we're

01:20:12 ◼   ► gonna watch that which is fun.

01:20:14 ◼   ► Because you know, just in case you want to know what the Electric Boogaloo joke is about,

01:20:18 ◼   ► then you can go to the Wikipedia article.

01:20:20 ◼   ► We'll follow that up with Step Up to the Streets.

01:20:23 ◼   ► Yes please.

01:20:24 ◼   ► Please.

01:20:25 ◼   ► If you'd like to find Jason online, go to SixColors.com or he is on Twitter, he is @JSnell.

01:20:30 ◼   ► I am @IMyke, I-M-Y-K-E. Thanks again to our sponsors for this week's episode,

01:20:37 ◼   ► The Fine Folk over at Ring and Hover, and we'll be back next time.

01:20:42 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye Jason Snell.

01:20:44 ◼   ► Live long and prosper.

01:20:46 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:20:49 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]