Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 159.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Balance, and Encapsula.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Mr. Jason Snell, we are back to a sense of normality in the Upgrade world now.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Yes, back to our usual schedule after a summer that, while fun, was also kind of off our

00:00:34 ◼   ► normal schedule and plan for this podcast.

00:00:37 ◼   ► But hey Jason, nobody cares about schedules. It's time for #SnellTalk, and our question

00:00:43 ◼   ► this week comes from Dee Lindberg. Dee Lindberg asks, "If you went back in time to 1997,

00:00:52 ◼   ► How would you attempt to explain to somebody that Apple would be the richest company in

00:00:57 ◼   ► the world in 20 years?

00:01:02 ◼   ► Well, that would be…

00:01:04 ◼   ► It would be a Herculean task, I think.

00:01:07 ◼   ► It would be, but I think this is an interesting hypothetical.

00:01:12 ◼   ► I think I would say, you know, Steve Jobs just came back.

00:01:18 ◼   ► He's working his magic.

00:01:20 ◼   ► He's changing Apple's product line, and the products that you see over the next few years

00:01:27 ◼   ► are not the product that pushes Apple to its greatest heights ever, but they are the run-up

00:01:35 ◼   ► to that.

00:01:36 ◼   ► And so just keep watching, right?

00:01:38 ◼   ► Keep watching as Apple becomes more invested in consumer technology and more invested in

00:01:45 ◼   ► and things that are not what you think of now as a computer,

00:01:49 ◼   ► but are a little bit outside because by going broader,

00:01:54 ◼   ► I would also say, remember, you know how you guys

00:01:58 ◼   ► here in the 90s always complain about how Apple is bad

00:02:01 ◼   ► at advertising and marketing,

00:02:02 ◼   ► and if people could just understand

00:02:04 ◼   ► why your Apple products were good,

00:02:05 ◼   ► they would become Apple users, but nobody ever does that.

00:02:09 ◼   ► So just watch because depending on the time of year,

00:02:13 ◼   ► like that Think Different ad you just saw,

00:02:15 ◼   ► that's the first Think Different ad

00:02:17 ◼   ► that came out in like August of '97.

00:02:19 ◼   ► So let's say it's September,

00:02:21 ◼   ► like exactly 30 years ago or 20 years ago.

00:02:24 ◼   ► That's the start of a long run of good ads.

00:02:30 ◼   ► And Apple's also gonna get into retail

00:02:32 ◼   ► where they're going to bring their stuff to stores

00:02:36 ◼   ► all over the country and the world

00:02:38 ◼   ► where people will get to walk in and see them

00:02:41 ◼   ► and do what you've always described,

00:02:44 ◼   ► which is if Apple properly markets themselves

00:02:46 ◼   ► and people can actually see Apple stuff and try it out,

00:02:49 ◼   ► they will like it and they will embrace it.

00:02:51 ◼   ► That was a theory I know back in your time in the 90s

00:02:54 ◼   ► and turns out it's right, it's true.

00:02:57 ◼   ► And Apple's gonna do that.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Plus they're gonna go into new product areas.

00:03:01 ◼   ► So as a time traveler,

00:03:05 ◼   ► I can't advise you on investment decisions, but come on.

00:03:11 ◼   ► you see what to do. I bet this would be a... Also here's who won the Super Bowl. I don't

00:03:16 ◼   ► know. Just throw that in there. And here's that new sound you've been looking for. Your

00:03:21 ◼   ► kids are really gonna love it. Mm-hmm. I bet you could explain this in those terms to somebody

00:03:28 ◼   ► following Apple and you could make them believe you, right? By using the things and like Steve

00:03:33 ◼   ► Jobs has come back and he's gonna fix it and the advertising is gonna get better. I don't

00:03:38 ◼   ► think that it would really be possible to explain this to people outside, right? Like

00:03:42 ◼   ► people that understood enough about technology but didn't obsessively care about Apple, I

00:03:46 ◼   ► feel like you'd really, really struggle to explain it to them. Like people that understand

00:03:51 ◼   ► Apple, you could explain it to.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Well, people who, for somebody who totally doesn't understand Apple and doesn't know

00:03:56 ◼   ► anything about it, in 1997, what I would say is, you know Apple, that company that makes

00:03:59 ◼   ► a weird computer that nobody buys? They're not going to give up on that, but they're

00:04:04 ◼   ► going to make a new product using their technology brilliance. You know how like everybody loved

00:04:08 ◼   ► the Mac when it came out and people were like, "Oh, the Mac," but nobody uses it, but everybody

00:04:12 ◼   ► loved it and talked about it. They're going to do that again in the next decade, twice,

00:04:19 ◼   ► in different categories that aren't computers. And you won't need to use it with a Mac. You

00:04:23 ◼   ► can use it with a PC and people are going to love it and that's what's going to happen.

00:04:26 ◼   ► And I think people would say, "Oh, okay, sure. That makes sense." You know, if I tried to

00:04:30 ◼   ► convince them that the Mac was going to be the most popular computer, they wouldn't believe

00:04:33 ◼   ► which is good because I would be a time traveler who was lying to them. That's terrible. So,

00:04:39 ◼   ► I think that would be the way I would explain it. Apple's going to try again. Apple's going to do

00:04:43 ◼   ► something like the Mac that's revolutionary, but this time it's going to work, and they're going

00:04:47 ◼   ► to do it twice with the iPod and the iPhone. And that would be how I'd explain it to somebody who

00:04:54 ◼   ► doesn't have a closer level of detail on what Apple is like in 1997. If you would like to ask

00:05:02 ◼   ► a question for the beginning of Upgrade. All you need to do is send a tweet with the hashtag

00:05:08 ◼   ► SnellTalk and they go into a document for me to pick from. Be like D. Lindberg and send

00:05:13 ◼   ► in an awesome question and then maybe you can help start off a future episode of Upgrade.

00:05:19 ◼   ► So last week we spoke about the fact that Upgradeian, who is in the chat room right

00:05:23 ◼   ► now, Carl's the Grey, was in the Apple Watch video which is now I believe on Apple's YouTube

00:05:30 ◼   ► channel so I'm going to find a link for that and put it in the show notes so you can go

00:05:33 ◼   ► and watch it. I didn't think they'd published it when we were talking last week. Turns out

00:05:40 ◼   ► that Kyle's was not the only upgrade-ian who was in that exact same video. Stuart Breinigen

00:05:51 ◼   ► was the self-proclaimed standing up in the office guy. If you remember there was somebody

00:05:56 ◼   ► standing up and reading their letter aloud.

00:05:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a good laugh too where it's the time to stand and he stands up in the middle

00:06:01 ◼   ► of the office and all of that and that was, that's Upgrading Stewart from Scotland.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Yeah, Stewart wrote in and said, "I was on it too." So there were, of the maybe 10 people

00:06:12 ◼   ► featured in that video, two of them were Upgradians. At least, I mean, who knows, there could be

00:06:21 ◼   ► more.

00:06:22 ◼   ► There could be more, right? But it's just amazing, right? And you know, Myke, I think

00:06:28 ◼   ► I think I might have said this last week, but I'll just say it again. My initial reaction

00:06:31 ◼   ► to this is obviously the screeners didn't ask the right questions. How are upgradians

00:06:38 ◼   ► allowed in the video?

00:06:39 ◼   ► Hey, Jason, they may have been looking for them.

00:06:44 ◼   ► It's possible. They are the most discerning and high quality audience around.

00:06:50 ◼   ► The brightest and most attractive of all of the podcast listeners are the upgradians.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Alright, upgradience, there's no doubt. We know that, it is a complete fact. And none

00:07:00 ◼   ► of you, I'm sure, will disagree with that. I wanted to give some follow up on Apple Watch

00:07:05 ◼   ► cores. Last week I professed how unbelievable I thought it was that our watches are about

00:07:12 ◼   ► to have dual cores with the Series 3. Turns out that the Series 1 and Series 2 watches

00:07:17 ◼   ► that were released last year both had dual core processes in them. The original Apple

00:07:24 ◼   ► which has been dubbed the Series 0 in a retcon incident, had a single core processor in it.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Some further follow up that we've had from many people about the word Qi for the Qi wireless

00:07:41 ◼   ► charging standard. I want to just, Jonas was one of these people that wrote in, to say

00:07:46 ◼   ► that Qi in the context that it is being referred to here with the wireless charging standard

00:07:53 ◼   ► refers to the idea of air, breathing or energy flow. We said on the last episode because

00:07:59 ◼   ► somebody told us in the chat room that "qi" was the Chinese word for seven, which it is

00:08:04 ◼   ► also true that that is the word but apparently it is pronounced slightly differently and

00:08:10 ◼   ► I believe that there's context that would be required for a lot of words. For what I

00:08:15 ◼   ► can gather, Mandarin seems like a tricky language.

00:08:18 ◼   ► Yeah, might be hard.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Might be kind of outside of my realm there.

00:08:22 ◼   ► I've got a dumb joke that only nerds who are comic book, uh, superhero nerds and tech nerds

00:08:27 ◼   ► will get. You want to hear it? Yep. How does Iron Fist charge his, uh, Iron Fist? Oh, that's

00:08:32 ◼   ► pretty good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I get it. Chi. I like that. That's really good. You should

00:08:38 ◼   ► tweet that. That's it. That is a tweetable joke. Oh no. That is a tweetable joke. Oh

00:08:42 ◼   ► yeah. Come on. That's your wheelhouse. The people following you on Twitter. It's a tech

00:08:46 ◼   ► nerd dad joke is what that is, but there it is. Chi. He just, I imagine he just sort of

00:08:50 ◼   ► lace his hand down on a power pad and lets it get charged up.

00:08:55 ◼   ► So it turns out that's why I mean that makes it a when someone told me it was the Chinese

00:09:00 ◼   ► word for seven I didn't understand why they called it that but now I get why they called

00:09:03 ◼   ► it that. I understand why it's called chi now because energy flowing in the air.

00:09:09 ◼   ► Let's just be honest until this Apple event I literally thought it was called key.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Oh yeah 100% I thought it was called key.

00:09:17 ◼   ► So now we know better thank you everybody.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Why wouldn't you think that?

00:09:21 ◼   ► Alright next week, Myke at the movies Terminator 2, that will be the end of next week's episode

00:09:26 ◼   ► so if you want to be able to listen along between now and the time that you listen to

00:09:31 ◼   ► next week's episode of Upgrade, episode 160, make sure that you have watched Terminator

00:09:36 ◼   ► 2 or decide that you don't care about Terminator 2 spoilers, which is probably okay considering

00:09:42 ◼   ► the movie is like 20 years old.

00:09:44 ◼   ► 1990 Casey Liss pointed out that this is actually a 90s movie, but as a early 90s movie

00:09:50 ◼   ► That's a sequel to an 80s movie. I am clean. I want to I want to institute a

00:09:54 ◼   ► Subrule of the

00:09:58 ◼   ► Mic at the mic of the movie selection

00:10:01 ◼   ► so the kind of

00:10:03 ◼   ► Unofficial official rule is that Jason for the time being gets 80s movies in Casey gets 90s movies

00:10:10 ◼   ► Even though we do this way more. I mean, I don't know how

00:10:14 ◼   ► Really as well. Yeah, like because we do we watch Firefly together on analog

00:10:19 ◼   ► So Casey is already instituted his own amendment these own like a little rule addendum here

00:10:24 ◼   ► But the this this new rule addendum that I will Institute for the movies portion

00:10:29 ◼   ► Is that if a movie franchise begins in one decade?

00:10:33 ◼   ► It can continue the the I believe that the same show should car

00:10:38 ◼   ► to continue further viewings of the franchise no matter when those movies came out.

00:10:41 ◼   ► It's a fair game. I think that's good. And yeah, Terminator 2 is a classic in a lot of

00:10:50 ◼   ► ways. It is a blockbuster that helped define what summer blockbusters were. It advanced

00:10:59 ◼   ► the game in a lot of ways. I believe that this movie is going to help

00:11:03 ◼   ► me understand why as a child I had an Arnold Schwarzenegger Terminator toy. Because Terminator

00:11:11 ◼   ► 1 would not answer that question. I'm expecting Terminator 2 will answer that question.

00:11:17 ◼   ► Alright, so next week we'll be back.

00:11:20 ◼   ► Alright, so we obviously spent all of the time last week talking about new products.

00:11:27 ◼   ► So I thought we could maybe go over what we pre-ordered if anything at all. Jason, what

00:11:31 ◼   ► did you pre-order on Friday? I pre-ordered, you know, it's always tricky with me because

00:11:38 ◼   ► sometimes I get things to review and sometimes I have to buy them to review them and sometimes

00:11:44 ◼   ► I buy them to use them and review them but, you know, I have different motivations because

00:11:50 ◼   ► again it's also my living to do this so like I bought a 10.5 iPad Pro because I got a review

00:12:00 ◼   ► unit of the 12-9 but not the 10-5 and I wanted to review both of them. So sometimes my buying

00:12:05 ◼   ► decisions are weird and not directly correlating to what my personal preferences would be.

00:12:12 ◼   ► But anyway, the 4K Apple TV because I, you know, I want one. If I get a review, that's

00:12:19 ◼   ► nice but I want one. I have a 4K TV, I want one, I'm getting that. And I got a cellular

00:12:26 ◼   ► Apple Watch because I want a cellular Apple Watch.

00:12:28 ◼   ► And so I got space gray, so that means the aluminum.

00:12:33 ◼   ► I thought about the stainless.

00:12:35 ◼   ► I always think about the stainless,

00:12:37 ◼   ► but as nice as that black stainless looks like,

00:12:40 ◼   ► because I don't want the silver,

00:12:42 ◼   ► but I think like the silver one very clearly says

00:12:44 ◼   ► this is a pretty stainless steel watch.

00:12:46 ◼   ► And the black one, while nicer than the space gray one,

00:12:48 ◼   ► it's a lot nicer, I think, to my taste anyway,

00:12:52 ◼   ► and a lot more expensive.

00:12:54 ◼   ► So I figure like I'm just gonna keep it going.

00:12:56 ◼   ► I've always had the space gray Apple watch in aluminum

00:12:59 ◼   ► and I'm still gonna get that.

00:13:00 ◼   ► The one difference this time is I have so many bands now

00:13:03 ◼   ► including so many black sport bands

00:13:05 ◼   ► that I went with the Nike plus

00:13:07 ◼   ► and got the anthracite black nice Nike sport band.

00:13:10 ◼   ► - And you get all those special faces.

00:13:13 ◼   ► - I get the special faces and I get that band

00:13:15 ◼   ► and I still got my all my other watch bands.

00:13:17 ◼   ► So I feel like why not do that?

00:13:21 ◼   ► So I pre-ordered the 4K Apple TV because we use our Apple TV every single day and I want

00:13:28 ◼   ► to be able to watch all the 4K HDR movies on my 4K HDR television and I really really

00:13:34 ◼   ► really cannot wait, seriously just cannot cannot wait to stare with my mouth agape at

00:13:40 ◼   ► the screensavers.

00:13:42 ◼   ► I'm so excited about this you cannot even believe.

00:13:45 ◼   ► This is something that my entire household is excited about because we both love looking

00:13:49 ◼   ► up those screensavers, me and Adina, so we're very excited about that. And I got a space

00:13:54 ◼   ► grey 42mm cellular Apple Watch with the Olive Sport Loop. So I want the Sport Loop because

00:14:03 ◼   ► it looks like a kind of a best of all worlds. Last week I thought it was magnets but it

00:14:07 ◼   ► seems to be some kind of velcro material but it seems like it's a good velcro rather than

00:14:14 ◼   ► regular velcro like it's not just your standard velcro it's it's nice apparently.

00:14:18 ◼   ► Isn't the color that I would want the olive one I actually want the black one because the black

00:14:23 ◼   ► one has like these little flecks of color in it which look interesting but I don't think that was

00:14:27 ◼   ► an option they're very restrictive with the color options that come as kind of like buy the watch

00:14:33 ◼   ► get the band. However I love my pride band so much that I can't imagine really wanting to swap

00:14:41 ◼   ► unless these new bands are really amazing. If the new bands are really great then I'll

00:14:46 ◼   ► get maybe the black one at a later date but I'm starting off with the olive one which

00:14:50 ◼   ► is a nice kind of, it says olive but it looks great to me. So, it looks great. I did want

00:14:56 ◼   ► to make a note on pre-orders. Of course, I mean this maybe isn't so weird for you Jason,

00:15:02 ◼   ► but it is incredibly weird for me to have an iPhone pre-order schedule go by and I mostly

00:15:09 ◼   ► just ignored that fact. Isn't it strange? Isn't that a strange feeling? Very weird.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Very weird that it's kind of like, "Oh, you can pre-order an iPhone, but I'm just not

00:15:19 ◼   ► gonna bother." Like, it was a very strange feeling. It made me realize how far away October

00:15:25 ◼   ► 27th, pre-ordering November 3rd is. That is a long way away. Like, yeah, that's... yeah,

00:15:34 ◼   ► I'm very sad about this. Also I was kind of keeping my eye on the pre-ordering status

00:15:44 ◼   ► and it seemed that it took basically all day for the 8 and 8+ to get pushed back to about

00:15:53 ◼   ► a 1 to 2 week dispatch in the UK and that seemed to be pretty similar across most territories

00:16:00 ◼   ► from what I could see people talking about. So I guess there's two things from this.

00:16:04 ◼   ► 1. They didn't sell out immediately. 2. At least they still did.

00:16:12 ◼   ► I think that's it. I think they don't need… There was no way there was going to be completely

00:16:18 ◼   ► uncontrollable demand for this phone because first off, when looking at what the specs

00:16:23 ◼   ► are, I would think that Apple knows pretty well how to assemble these and make a lot

00:16:26 ◼   ► of them because it's very much like the existing iPhone 7 and 6s and 6 that they make,

00:16:32 ◼   ► right? And they've probably been making them for a while and building up a supply because

00:16:36 ◼   ► they know they're going to sell, but nobody really expected that it would be necessarily

00:16:41 ◼   ► record-breaking because there's another new iPhone model, right? So there's going to be

00:16:45 ◼   ► reduced demand. I think it is encouraging that there appears to be demand for the iPhone

00:16:50 ◼   ► 8, and I heard a bunch of people say, "Ah, I'm not going to get the X. iPhone 8 works

00:16:54 ◼   ► for me." And a lot of reasons the price are people like skeptical of any first-gen of

00:16:59 ◼   ► anything, and the iPhone X is definitely first generation in a bunch of different areas.

00:17:05 ◼   ► Some skepticism because nobody has seen in the wild how Face ID works, so I think some

00:17:10 ◼   ► people have professed skepticism about that. And the sensor housing notch thing, right?

00:17:15 ◼   ► Like some people are like, "Ah!"

00:17:16 ◼   ► A lot of people don't like it.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Or at least, you know, and maybe they'll get used to it, and maybe it'll turn out that

00:17:22 ◼   ► it's awesome, but if your initial reaction is like, "All of these things, like the price

00:17:27 ◼   ► and the notch and it's new stuff and it's all that. You know, I've heard from a lot

00:17:31 ◼   ► of people, like, "Yeah, the iPhone 8 is fine." And you know what? Apple's okay with that,

00:17:35 ◼   ► right? Like, Apple wants there to be a spread, especially since everybody's assuming that

00:17:40 ◼   ► iPhone X demand is going to way outstrip iPhone X supply. So Apple's gamble is that they don't

00:17:47 ◼   ► want to kill iPhone 8 sales with the existence of the X. And it looks like that hasn't happened.

00:17:52 ◼   ► I mean, it's hard to divine it just from availability because they are metering their own availability.

00:17:58 ◼   ► They may be making fewer of them in order to meet a reduced demand. But yeah, it is

00:18:05 ◼   ► a funny feeling. Oh, in the chat room, Joe Steele asked us to explain our storage options

00:18:11 ◼   ► on the Apple TV 4K. And my simple answer is, of course, I bought the cheaper one with less

00:18:16 ◼   ► storage because storage on Apple TV is stupid, and it's really only used for apps. And why?

00:18:22 ◼   ► I spend money on something that is dumb. So I thought about making a joke and saying I

00:18:27 ◼   ► went for the 64, but... If you hate the Apple TV you may say, "Why did you spend money on

00:18:32 ◼   ► an Apple TV then?" Because it is dumb, but I like the Apple TV and also I want to know

00:18:38 ◼   ► about it. I don't love it, but I like it, and I'm looking forward to the 4K stuff on

00:18:43 ◼   ► my 4K TV. Another weird little aside about 4K while we're there, which is that iOS 11,

00:18:50 ◼   ► which is coming out tomorrow as we record this, the 19th.

00:18:53 ◼   ► One of the things it does on the new iPad Pros

00:18:56 ◼   ► is it supports HDR video,

00:18:58 ◼   ► and that's live now if you're on the GM.

00:19:01 ◼   ► And I had to quit my TV app and then relaunch it to get it.

00:19:05 ◼   ► And I haven't had time to do like a side-by-side comparison

00:19:08 ◼   ► or anything like that, but it does offer,

00:19:11 ◼   ► they're not 4K, they're 1080,

00:19:12 ◼   ► but they're 1080 HDR versions of movies,

00:19:17 ◼   ► which is really interesting

00:19:19 ◼   ► and suggest, they said when those came out

00:19:22 ◼   ► that the screens were great, they were ready for HDR content

00:19:26 ◼   ► and here is the other shoe dropping there.

00:19:28 ◼   ► - I'm happy they're doing this.

00:19:30 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I think that's good.

00:19:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's cool.

00:19:33 ◼   ► - I wanted to share two little just very quick tidbits

00:19:37 ◼   ► of information that I found out since last week

00:19:38 ◼   ► that I thought were interesting to mention on the show.

00:19:41 ◼   ► One which I find to be really disappointing

00:19:43 ◼   ► is that the Apple Watch LTE model

00:19:46 ◼   ► only works in your country of purchase, it will not roam.

00:19:49 ◼   ► LTE. Right. Which is really disappointing for me just because of how much time I spend in the US

00:19:55 ◼   ► and something that I know is likely to happen is I'm hoping that the LTE Apple Watch will help me

00:20:01 ◼   ► develop some new habits in regards to when and where I need my phone with me and I know that I

00:20:07 ◼   ► will develop some habits then I will be on a trip and I will just leave like my hotel leave my phone

00:20:14 ◼   ► in the room and then you know it's gone and it doesn't work and then I'm gonna

00:20:19 ◼   ► be really sad but hey ho this is the first edition but it is just it is a

00:20:24 ◼   ► shame I do consider it a shame the other is that iPad pros and the 256 and 512

00:20:31 ◼   ► gigabyte models they've all been increased by $50 across the board LTE or

00:20:36 ◼   ► not yeah this sounds like as everybody's been speculating this is about storage

00:20:44 ◼   ► costs going up. Yep. That the storage used in the flash storage of

00:20:52 ◼   ► Apple devices is severely constrained because everybody wants that storage for

00:20:58 ◼   ► all of their devices and it's expensive. So all of our dreams of like

00:21:04 ◼   ► SSDs coming down in price it's not happening right now because demand, again

00:21:09 ◼   ► here's that supply and demand thing, kids take your economics class when you're in

00:21:12 ◼   ► school. I keep telling my daughter that. It's like economics, it's kind of important. You

00:21:15 ◼   ► should pay attention. This is a case where there's so much demand because everybody wants

00:21:21 ◼   ► to put this stuff in all the devices they make and I'm sure there are ramping up factories

00:21:28 ◼   ► everywhere, but right now the prices aren't going up and not down and Apple is going to

00:21:33 ◼   ► maintain its margins apparently, so it's passing those prices on to consumers, which is unusual.

00:21:38 ◼   ► Alright, let's take our first break and we should talk about the iPhone X some more.

00:21:45 ◼   ► See how I stumbled there? I got to look it in the document, Jason, and I struggled with

00:21:50 ◼   ► whether to say "10" or whether to say the letter "X", but I went with "10".

00:21:54 ◼   ► iPhone X! There are more lasers if it's iPhone X, but it's not. There are no lasers.

00:22:00 ◼   ► Aww. Alright, today's show is brought to you by Balance. Balance are the team behind Balance

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00:23:36 ◼   ► of this show and Relay FM. So let's talk about the iPhone 10. I did it again. I look at it.

00:23:46 ◼   ► I should just start writing the word 10 down instead because every time I see X I just

00:23:51 ◼   ► want to say X.

00:23:52 ◼   ► Just get your Apple pencil out and get open a new note and just write x equals 10, x equals 10, x equals 10.

00:23:59 ◼   ► So over and over and over again.

00:24:01 ◼   ► Jason, I wanted to focus on three different features of, or at least aspects of the iPhone.

00:24:09 ◼   ► And we're going to talk about Face ID separately in a moment.

00:24:12 ◼   ► But I wanted to focus on a couple of different things with you to see what you think.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Because they're just things that have been playing on my mind especially over the last few weeks.

00:24:21 ◼   ► Overall, I don't know if we really spoke about this too much last time because it was pretty

00:24:28 ◼   ► fresh, but especially as time has gone on and we're like a week removed now, how do

00:24:34 ◼   ► you feel about the notch from a design perspective?

00:24:37 ◼   ► You know, I'm torn. Having held it in my hand, right, like…

00:24:44 ◼   ► And you are in the unique, you know, we should just…

00:24:47 ◼   ► Let's get it out there again, sure.

00:24:48 ◼   ► We should say this, I mean, because it's important.

00:24:50 ◼   ► It is important to underscore this point, I think,

00:24:52 ◼   ► wherever we can, that you are in the unique position.

00:24:57 ◼   ► - Yes, I'm one of a few hundred people

00:24:59 ◼   ► who actually has held an iPhone X in their hand.

00:25:02 ◼   ► - So I am especially interested in your opinion

00:25:05 ◼   ► because of that, sorry to interrupt you.

00:25:07 ◼   ► - So the, when you hold in your hand, right,

00:25:12 ◼   ► like the thing that comes out is that it is,

00:25:15 ◼   ► the screen is pushed as far to the edge as is possible.

00:25:19 ◼   ► And then there's that notch in the top.

00:25:23 ◼   ► And I think Apple is struggling with this too.

00:25:27 ◼   ► Like they obviously had an internal debate

00:25:30 ◼   ► about whether they wanted to make that screen,

00:25:32 ◼   ► the portion of the screen to the sides of the notch

00:25:34 ◼   ► accessible or not to developers,

00:25:36 ◼   ► because they could have said that the notch area

00:25:38 ◼   ► is reserved for status bar and that's it

00:25:40 ◼   ► and to get out of that space.

00:25:41 ◼   ► But what they want actually is for people to,

00:25:45 ◼   ► and this is a phrase that they have used,

00:25:46 ◼   ► embrace the notch, for developers to embrace the notch.

00:25:49 ◼   ► Or they don't say the notch, right?

00:25:50 ◼   ► But that's the message, embrace the notch,

00:25:52 ◼   ► embrace the curvature of the screen.

00:25:54 ◼   ► 'Cause it's not just the notch,

00:25:55 ◼   ► it's the edges are curved, edges of the screen are curved.

00:25:58 ◼   ► They're not right angles.

00:26:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is important to mention,

00:26:01 ◼   ► 'cause I think that a lot of people are focusing

00:26:03 ◼   ► on the notch because it's the thing

00:26:05 ◼   ► that is like right in your face,

00:26:06 ◼   ► but the edges of the display are curved

00:26:10 ◼   ► and that's never been the case before, am I right?

00:26:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's right.

00:26:14 ◼   ► So, it's not playing by the rules that iOS has played by before, and, you know,

00:26:24 ◼   ► there are reasons, right? It is following the curves of the device, which is, and

00:26:29 ◼   ► then the curve is reflected again, the notch is also curved, and it's meant to

00:26:35 ◼   ► be like it's trying to get the curved edges thing across to you. And so what

00:26:40 ◼   ► Apple wants developers to do is to have their stuff go, you know, spread out to the sides.

00:26:47 ◼   ► You don't want to put text right up against that edge, but they want to have, like, the

00:26:52 ◼   ► background colors flow out to the edges and things like that. Although there's some really

00:26:56 ◼   ► weird examples of things like Safari in landscape having white bars on the sides, which is,

00:27:03 ◼   ► like, really bad. I think everybody's going to be figuring this out as they go, like,

00:27:07 ◼   ► the right way to do it. So the notch, you know, it has to be there. I think it's an

00:27:11 ◼   ► interesting choice that Apple has decided not to block it out and just make it a status

00:27:14 ◼   ► area because if they'd made a status area with a black background, it would make it

00:27:18 ◼   ► more or less invisible, right? It would be like there'd be an area with no writing on

00:27:22 ◼   ► it, but it would still be like the black background would be consistent and you could you could

00:27:26 ◼   ► fake it, but they decided not to do that and instead kind of lean into the fact that it's

00:27:33 ◼   ► it's there. I think from Apple's perspective it is we've put screen in places where a screen

00:27:37 ◼   ► normally wouldn't go. It's sort of the argument like we could have stopped the screen at the

00:27:42 ◼   ► bottom of the sensor area but we decided not to. We just kept it going all the way to the

00:27:46 ◼   ► edge of the phone. We'll see how it works in practice. I think the screen is beautiful.

00:27:52 ◼   ► I think it's a little bit weird but necessary. I will just as an aside, I don't want to,

00:28:00 ◼   ► know, podcasts are nice because you can't actually hear them but the

00:28:03 ◼   ► counter arguments do get generated when you say things on podcasts. I've seen a

00:28:07 ◼   ► bunch of people say, "Well if you defend the notch and you thought that the flat

00:28:11 ◼   ► tire on the Moto 360 smartphone was dumb, you are being inconsistent." And I get

00:28:17 ◼   ► that argument but I don't think I agree with it because the Moto 360 smartphone

00:28:21 ◼   ► was a round phone and the whole idea was it's a round watch.

00:28:25 ◼   ► Whole idea was it's a round watch like regular watches with a round screen on

00:28:30 ◼   ► it and then the screen wasn't round. Yeah, they called it the 360. Yeah, I mean, yeah,

00:28:35 ◼   ► the screen wasn't round. The iPhone X, yes, it does have a weird thing. It is weird. It

00:28:41 ◼   ► is in the way of it being a completely edge-to-edge screen. I don't think it's as fundamental

00:28:49 ◼   ► to the product as the Moto 360 was where it was like, this is really exciting that they've

00:28:55 ◼   ► managed to do a round screen and then you find out, well, no, they didn't. It's got

00:28:59 ◼   ► a flat part at the bottom with nothing below it, which, you know, I understand why they

00:29:04 ◼   ► had to do it that way, but it really fought against the entire kind of premise of the

00:29:08 ◼   ► product. On this, it's less of an issue, but I know you can see, I know you've seen it

00:29:16 ◼   ► on Twitter too, like developers are struggling with it because there's questions of sort

00:29:19 ◼   ► of like, where do we put things, and they don't have a lot of time, at least they have

00:29:22 ◼   ► more time than if it was shipping on Friday, but they don't have a lot of time to deal

00:29:26 ◼   ► with this. And I know that it's like, you know, I saw some tweets by James Thompson

00:29:30 ◼   ► about like, he put iPhone 10 support in to pcalc when he released it this week. And you

00:29:36 ◼   ► know, I, there was a Twitter thread of like, this is a weird decision. He's like, yeah,

00:29:39 ◼   ► I'm still rethinking things, but you got to start somewhere. And I wanted to be compatible.

00:29:44 ◼   ► So there's a lot of questions of like, do you curve other edges of UI elements? Do you

00:29:47 ◼   ► extend UI elements up to the top, but there's a notch in the way. There's like lots of questions

00:29:52 ◼   ► for designers and developers of apps about how you work around the notch or embrace the

00:29:56 ◼   ► notch and what do you do with it. I think there's questions about lots of apps that

00:30:02 ◼   ► have like overcast as a card metaphor and the card can't go all the way up to the top

00:30:07 ◼   ► because it can't because there's a notch in the way. It's like what happens there? So

00:30:12 ◼   ► I don't know. I think in the end it's probably not going to be a big deal. I think it used

00:30:18 ◼   ► as a status area, I think on the sides it's probably fine, but it is, I feel for all the

00:30:25 ◼   ► app developers who have to kind of ponder what this means to have the curved edges and

00:30:30 ◼   ► the notch on the screen. And I think there's going to be a period of experimentation here,

00:30:37 ◼   ► where everybody is trying to figure out like what feels good to use on an iPhone X. And

00:30:45 ◼   ► now it's all mock-ups in the simulator too because most people don't have one of these

00:30:49 ◼   ► in their hands so I think that's exciting but it's a you know it's definitely I'm sure

00:30:56 ◼   ► Apple would rather it be invisible but they can't do that.

00:31:00 ◼   ► To go through some of your points backwards the Moto 360 thing I understand what people

00:31:08 ◼   ► say that but I always liked the way that watch looked I mean I have a history of saying that

00:31:13 ◼   ► I've enjoyed the look of that device.

00:31:15 ◼   ► I like the rounded part.

00:31:17 ◼   ► And the flat tire aspect of it never bothered me.

00:31:21 ◼   ► My feeling at the time was,

00:31:23 ◼   ► well, that stuff has to go somewhere.

00:31:25 ◼   ► If that's all they could do, it's all they could do.

00:31:27 ◼   ► I think the overall look of it is good.

00:31:29 ◼   ► - My pushback on it would be that I was disappointed in it

00:31:32 ◼   ► 'cause I was excited about the idea

00:31:34 ◼   ► that they were doing a truly round watch,

00:31:36 ◼   ► which is very hard to do,

00:31:38 ◼   ► and that they got hit by.

00:31:42 ◼   ► couldn't pull it off and they shipped it anyway and yeah it looked great but it was it's just

00:31:47 ◼   ► really it's really unfortunate because like that was the meaning of that that was the

00:31:51 ◼   ► ideal platonic ideal of the Moto 360 was it's a round screen and it wasn't quite and it's

00:31:56 ◼   ► too bad. Yeah in hindsight the name of the product should have been different. The I

00:32:02 ◼   ► will also say that I think over the last couple of years maybe at least the last year I have

00:32:10 ◼   ► said in many places that I think that Samsung were making the best looking smartphones on

00:32:15 ◼   ► the market. I think that the S7 and the S8 and the Notes, they've all been incredible.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Like as soon as they started doing the edge to edge stuff and the, I've loved all of that.

00:32:25 ◼   ► You know the screens going over the edges and then with the S8 going kind of as far

00:32:29 ◼   ► to the top as they could put it. I've always thought they were incredible. I will say,

00:32:34 ◼   ► For me right now, the iPhone X is the best looking smartphone that I will be able to

00:32:41 ◼   ► buy.

00:32:42 ◼   ► I think this phone is beautiful.

00:32:44 ◼   ► I love it.

00:32:45 ◼   ► I like the distinctiveness of the weird screen shape.

00:32:50 ◼   ► I know it's going to be hard for people to develop for it, but every screenshot that

00:32:57 ◼   ► I've seen of an application that has been optimised I think is just stunning.

00:33:03 ◼   ► And this includes James's with Peacock.

00:33:06 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to a screenshot

00:33:07 ◼   ► of Carrot Weather running on the iPhone 10.

00:33:09 ◼   ► - Oh, the Carrot Weather one looks great.

00:33:11 ◼   ► And they're using, what Carrot Weather is doing, right,

00:33:14 ◼   ► is they're using the extra space above,

00:33:18 ◼   ► they're embracing the notch as a status location,

00:33:21 ◼   ► where the time and carrier and all that information is.

00:33:26 ◼   ► And, but they're running their background up to the corners.

00:33:33 ◼   ► And so it looks really nice because you see the notch,

00:33:37 ◼   ► but you see the background colors flow up around it

00:33:40 ◼   ► and cover the status area,

00:33:42 ◼   ► which I suspect is going to be the most common way

00:33:45 ◼   ► app developers approach this.

00:33:45 ◼   ► - And I think that's the way it should be done

00:33:48 ◼   ► because it's like,

00:33:49 ◼   ► it makes everything part of the application,

00:33:52 ◼   ► but it's not putting things that you need up there,

00:33:55 ◼   ► but it's making the whole screen,

00:33:57 ◼   ► it's like makes it a kind of seamless experience.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Everything is the application that you're in

00:34:01 ◼   ► at this point of time.

00:34:03 ◼   ► And I think it's beautiful.

00:34:05 ◼   ► I know that a lot of people don't like the notch.

00:34:10 ◼   ► They think it's kind of a compromise,

00:34:13 ◼   ► and it is a compromise, but I think with everything

00:34:16 ◼   ► Apple has had in their hand here,

00:34:18 ◼   ► they made a great compromise.

00:34:20 ◼   ► There's a couple of things that I've been saying,

00:34:21 ◼   ► I said this before the phone launched,

00:34:24 ◼   ► and I'll say it again.

00:34:25 ◼   ► If that would have just been a screen that was black,

00:34:29 ◼   ► I would have felt cheated as a customer.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Because why have you got a screen that is just black?

00:34:37 ◼   ► Right?

00:34:38 ◼   ► Either don't have the screen or use the screen.

00:34:42 ◼   ► And if,

00:34:44 ◼   ► like I know that there are useful things in there

00:34:48 ◼   ► where like status bar stuff, I get that.

00:34:50 ◼   ► But that's not enough of a use case for me.

00:34:52 ◼   ► Just having these two little parts of a screen

00:34:54 ◼   ► that are colored in black,

00:34:55 ◼   ► like I feel like that I'm not being given

00:34:58 ◼   ► the opportunity to use all of the screen that I've paid for.

00:35:01 ◼   ► And I also prefer that Apple has done something

00:35:04 ◼   ► where they're building UI and forcing developers

00:35:09 ◼   ► to customize, or really twisting people's arms

00:35:12 ◼   ► to customize and play around with it

00:35:14 ◼   ► and do things with that screen,

00:35:15 ◼   ► rather than it just being a black bar

00:35:17 ◼   ► and everything starting lower down.

00:35:19 ◼   ► I think that overall this is gonna work out to be great.

00:35:22 ◼   ► And I think that Apple is telling people

00:35:24 ◼   ► to embrace the notch because if they didn't every single developer would just make that

00:35:31 ◼   ► black at the top.

00:35:33 ◼   ► People wouldn't even try.

00:35:34 ◼   ► I mean of course there'd be some but I would really believe that most designers and developers

00:35:40 ◼   ► would take a stand on it or say that it's too tricky to make it work and would just

00:35:45 ◼   ► say like "oh we're just going to colour this in black" and I feel like that would be a

00:35:49 ◼   ► waste at least by Apple putting this in the human interface guidelines.

00:35:54 ◼   ► going to be forcing people to experiment and see what they can do and as always

00:36:00 ◼   ► with any big change like this the stuff that we get on launch day and for the

00:36:05 ◼   ► first month it's not going to be amazing there will be quick things done without

00:36:10 ◼   ► anybody using the devices what you could mock up in simulator it will be in a few

00:36:15 ◼   ► months time from the launch of the phone where we'll see people if there's

00:36:21 ◼   ► anything interesting to be done with this we'll start to see it and I really

00:36:24 ◼   ► honestly believe that there are going to be some kind of new

00:36:30 ◼   ► paradigms, new mechanisms, new user interface things that people are going

00:36:35 ◼   ► to start to do that will then be adopted more widely like there will be some

00:36:39 ◼   ► enterprising individuals who have a really good idea for how to use that

00:36:44 ◼   ► space really effectively and then we'll start to see more people do stuff with

00:36:48 ◼   ► it. So yeah, I'm excited about it. I am. I'm very excited about it. Like let's say for

00:36:53 ◼   ► example, right, like an application like Tweetbot. What if they changed the colour of the UI

00:36:58 ◼   ► up on the top if I had a notification that I hadn't read yet? You know, like there could

00:37:02 ◼   ► be little things that people start to do with the fact that you've got this screen, which

00:37:07 ◼   ► would mostly be colour that you could use of it, that could end up being really cool.

00:37:12 ◼   ► But I think that Apple have to ask people to really really think about it, to force

00:37:17 ◼   ► them into doing it, to force them to push them is maybe a better word than forcing like

00:37:22 ◼   ► to push people towards trying to experiment because otherwise people I think will gloss

00:37:27 ◼   ► over it. But yeah I think that the iPhone 10 I think is beautiful and I just cannot

00:37:32 ◼   ► cannot wait to get one. $999 what do you think about the price of the iPhone 10?

00:37:41 ◼   ► - It's, people are stumbling over it,

00:37:46 ◼   ► but the fact is you've been,

00:37:50 ◼   ► Apple's been inching up the price,

00:37:51 ◼   ► the iPhone plus pushed up the price.

00:37:53 ◼   ► This is, the phones have always been expensive.

00:37:58 ◼   ► They're getting more expensive, it's true,

00:38:00 ◼   ► but there's also a much broader spread of phones available.

00:38:03 ◼   ► And this is at the high end of Apple's product line.

00:38:05 ◼   ► If you look at the price points that they're offering now,

00:38:08 ◼   ► there are lots of them.

00:38:10 ◼   ► And this is, I think I was listening to the ATP conversation last week and Marco said

00:38:19 ◼   ► something that I think is right, which is, you know, Apple's probably never going to

00:38:24 ◼   ► stop offering a phone at $9.99 now, but what this gives them is the ability to spread the

00:38:32 ◼   ► product line even further and offer products that are more expensive to make that maintain

00:38:39 ◼   ► the margins that they want at the high end. And so, you know, I just think this is where

00:38:45 ◼   ► the market's going, is that Apple is always going to be a company that is seeking the

00:38:53 ◼   ► higher end of the market. And the fact is, they have not hit any demand walls by doing

00:38:58 ◼   ► this, that Apple raises the price and they still sell as many as they can make. So they

00:39:04 ◼   ► raise the price again and sell as many as they can make. The argument would be that

00:39:09 ◼   ► while I think maybe making an Apple Watch Edition in gold was a bridge too far, that

00:39:16 ◼   ► pushing this stuff up is... look, I mean, I would much rather that this iPhone X be available

00:39:22 ◼   ► for $699, right? I would totally prefer it at $699 than $999, but knowing what we know

00:39:27 ◼   ► about what's in it and looking at the spread of Apple's product line, I get why it's $999.

00:39:33 ◼   ► It's the same reason that the Apple TV is not $99. It's the same reason the Apple Watch

00:39:37 ◼   ► doesn't start at 149 or 199. It's because it's Apple. They know they can charge more

00:39:43 ◼   ► and sell them and you don't have to like it and you don't have to buy it. I think that's

00:39:47 ◼   ► a lot of arguments about Apple products. This is like just how when people get angry when

00:39:53 ◼   ► the MacBook comes out and it doesn't have ports and people get angry about it. The implication

00:39:58 ◼   ► is well I'm mad because I don't want it. It's like Apple is a kind of company that makes

00:40:03 ◼   ► makes people angry when you can't buy or don't want to buy or not willing to buy a certain

00:40:08 ◼   ► product because you want to want them all, even if you don't buy them all, you want to

00:40:12 ◼   ► want them all. And I get that at this price you might want to just walk away and say forget

00:40:17 ◼   ► it. There was an unsurprising kind of huffy post on the, I want to say the verge, although

00:40:24 ◼   ► it might have been in gadget or gizmodo, I can't remember, and it was basically I'm not

00:40:29 ◼   ► buying an iPhone 10. It's like, "Well, congratulations, sir. Good for you."

00:40:33 ◼   ► It was Paul Miller at the Verge. Paul Miller at the Verge, that's right. It's

00:40:36 ◼   ► like, "Well, yeah, bravo. Let everybody write in and tell us what you're buying and what

00:40:40 ◼   ► you're not buying because that's a personal decision." I had to roll my eyes at that post

00:40:47 ◼   ► because sure, that's his personal decision. He won't buy it and a lot of people won't

00:40:51 ◼   ► buy it and instead they'll buy the iPhone 8, right? So Apple is okay with that and a

00:40:58 ◼   ► lot of people will buy the iPhone 10. So, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't know.

00:41:04 ◼   ► It's the phone economics for a lot of people. It's the most important device that they own.

00:41:09 ◼   ► You most people don't buy a new one every year. And I would say a lot of people I know

00:41:14 ◼   ► who do buy them every year. It's totally worth it for them to buy a new phone every year

00:41:17 ◼   ► and they're happy to spend the money. So I don't see the problem. Honestly, like I don't

00:41:23 ◼   ► I would love for it to be cheaper because I would always love for it to be cheaper,

00:41:27 ◼   ► but Apple knows that they will sell as many as they can make at $999, and so this is going

00:41:34 ◼   ► to probably continue as long as it's successful.

00:41:38 ◼   ► One last thing, I would rather this phone exist at $999 than for Apple to look at the

00:41:43 ◼   ► cost of making an OLED phone with all those sensors and everything in 2017 and go, "No,

00:41:50 ◼   ► it doesn't pencil out and not make the phone, which they could have done and may have done

00:41:55 ◼   ► in the past with some features, right? Where they're like, "Let's wait a year. Everything

00:41:59 ◼   ► will be cheaper in a year." And I would rather this phone exist and be expensive than not

00:42:03 ◼   ► exist for sure.

00:42:06 ◼   ► The iPhone 8 that I would buy would be the 256GB iPhone 8 Plus, which would cost me $949.

00:42:17 ◼   ► iPhone X that I will buy is $200 more. At the point where I'm already spending

00:42:25 ◼   ► $1,000, like $950, I would spend the extra $200. Because I feel like you know you

00:42:32 ◼   ► get to a certain point and it's like well you know what does $200 mean? When

00:42:39 ◼   ► you're already at $1,000 what is another $200? You know like and I understand why

00:42:44 ◼   ► that is a difficult thing for a lot of people, but I think at a certain point the numbers,

00:42:50 ◼   ► the relative numbers start to matter a little less. And you know, bear in mind there are

00:42:55 ◼   ► many different reasons why I have the money that I do to spend on these products. There

00:43:00 ◼   ► are various things that I do in my life and save in my life to make sure I can buy these

00:43:06 ◼   ► phones every year because it's important for me, for many reasons, because I care and also

00:43:10 ◼   ► for what I do for a living. But there are many people that buy an iPhone every year

00:43:17 ◼   ► and I think if you buy an iPhone every single year, maybe a couple of extra hundred dollars

00:43:22 ◼   ► isn't that much of an impact to you. I don't know. I mean your mileage may vary on that

00:43:27 ◼   ► one. But I think $999, a lot of people, most people aren't paying that amount of money

00:43:34 ◼   ► in one big go. There are contracts, there are upgrade programs, right? These are a thing

00:43:39 ◼   ► that exist. Yeah, it's just you're paying, you're gonna pay another whatever, ten dollars

00:43:43 ◼   ► a month over the course of that contract than you did before. And yeah, but I think the

00:43:49 ◼   ► bottom line is, I think a lot of the reaction is people would rather not spend as much money,

00:43:54 ◼   ► which I totally get. Because it is an incredibly large amount of money for something that you're

00:43:58 ◼   ► only gonna keep for a year maybe, who knows? Yeah, maybe, but not if it's two years or

00:44:03 ◼   ► three years necessarily and so I get that and also I know that people feel oftentimes

00:44:10 ◼   ► frustrated when Apple makes something that they want but for whatever reason they can't

00:44:15 ◼   ► have or Apple makes something that they're not going to get when they're somebody whose

00:44:19 ◼   ► identity is tied up in being somebody who's got the latest and greatest Apple stuff and

00:44:24 ◼   ► I get it and I would say that at some point, some price point, this becomes a problem for

00:44:30 ◼   ► Apple but I don't think this is it. I mean, again, because again, first off the price

00:44:37 ◼   ► isn't entirely real because people tend to buy other things too so the starting price

00:44:42 ◼   ► tends to not be the actual price you spend at Apple and second, you know, phones have

00:44:48 ◼   ► already been creeping up there, right? If you get a plus with more storage, you're headed

00:44:53 ◼   ► up toward a thousand already and then do you get a case? Do you get AppleCare? So this

00:44:59 ◼   ► is just, this is, you know, this is the world we live in, is products like this exist, and

00:45:04 ◼   ► your phone, if your phone is fine, you don't have to buy it, and keep that in mind, and

00:45:09 ◼   ► that's, that's the only way. If Apple will change their, if you're really angry and think

00:45:13 ◼   ► Apple needs to change the way they approach pricing, the way it works is if the market

00:45:19 ◼   ► shows that Apple has failed to push the price higher, like, not deferring your upgrades,

00:45:28 ◼   ► buying a new iPhone, gravitating toward the older models that are cheaper and pushing

00:45:33 ◼   ► down the average selling price of the iPhone, if lots of people do that, Apple will change

00:45:39 ◼   ► its behavior, because Apple is, you know, is trying to find the right mixture. This

00:45:45 ◼   ► is their, this is two-thirds of Apple's budget, is the iPhone. They're not going to jeopardize

00:45:52 ◼   ► the iPhone's revenue engine in order to have a high-end product. The high-end product is meant to

00:45:58 ◼   ► complement the rest of the product line. And if they reach a point where it's acting to the

00:46:04 ◼   ► detriment of iPhone sales, they will change their behavior. So, you know, I don't think that's going

00:46:10 ◼   ► to happen at $999 starting for the iPhone X though. I don't think it's going to happen.

00:46:14 ◼   ► No, I don't. Well, but the thing is, Apple need to try and I, as a business, I understand

00:46:22 ◼   ► why they're trying. Like, you need to know if you're, because you don't, look, no one

00:46:26 ◼   ► wants to leave money on the table, right? Like this is their job as a company. If they're

00:46:32 ◼   ► able to make $200 more per person, they are gonna try that.

00:46:38 ◼   ► They're gonna find a way to do that. Well, that's exactly it.

00:46:43 ◼   ► This is what they're here to do.

00:46:45 ◼   ► - Back to the Apple TV.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Like I want the Apple TV to be the base model Apple TV B99, 'cause I wanna see Apple in

00:46:50 ◼   ► there at least trying to fight at a lower price point with the Chromecast and Roku's

00:46:56 ◼   ► and Fire TV's of the world.

00:46:59 ◼   ► And Apple has obviously decided they're okay with the Apple TV being way more expensive

00:47:04 ◼   ► than those because the people who are gonna buy the Apple TV are gonna want it for Apple

00:47:07 ◼   ► specific reasons.

00:47:09 ◼   ► And they're absolutely gonna be willing to shell out another $100 in order to get it.

00:47:13 ◼   ► that makes more money for Apple. And maybe that's the reason the Apple TV exists, is

00:47:17 ◼   ► for Apple, like below a certain point, Apple doesn't want to bother with the Apple TV.

00:47:22 ◼   ► The reason that it exists is perhaps to keep throwing more money in their direction. I

00:47:27 ◼   ► mean, Apple, that is, I think one symbol of Tim Cook's Apple is optimizing ruthlessly,

00:47:34 ◼   ► in some cases, optimizing price points to generate revenue. And it's the reason why

00:47:39 ◼   ► Apple is one of the most profitable and successful companies in the world. But all of us, you

00:47:46 ◼   ► know, this week, I think many, many upgrade listeners and you and I have thrown money,

00:47:51 ◼   ► our own hard-earned money into the Apple vacuum cleaner that sucks our money out of our pockets.

00:48:00 ◼   ► And so, yeah, that's, that's where that huge profit comes from everyone. It's us, right?

00:48:06 ◼   ► they know it and they know they're doing their best to get our money and to make products

00:48:12 ◼   ► that we want to buy. And where it breaks down is if it's a product we don't want to buy

00:48:15 ◼   ► or it doesn't have value at the price. But $9.99 is not going to be it. Somewhere between

00:48:21 ◼   ► $9.99 and a solid gold Apple watch, there's a breakdown, but I'm not quite sure where

00:48:26 ◼   ► that is.

00:48:27 ◼   ► Finally, I wanted to talk about the home button and losing it as a thing.

00:48:36 ◼   ► I think the main concern I have with the iPhone X is that, is the muscle memory thing.

00:48:45 ◼   ► The idea of pressing a circle on the bottom of my device to wake it up, to go to home,

00:48:52 ◼   ► all of these things, that has been the last 10 years for me, has been doing that, pressing

00:48:59 ◼   ► that button and going back home, or double tapping that button and going into multitasking.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And I hope that the fact that the gestures being basically the same as the ones on my

00:49:11 ◼   ► iPad will help it settle in, but I think that there's going to be some real time that it's

00:49:18 ◼   ► going to take to break the muscle memory that we have for going home?

00:49:26 ◼   ► You know, I'm going to play, I've got it for another month, I'm going to play my trump

00:49:32 ◼   ► card of having used the iPhone X for a little while, for 30 minutes or whatever, less than

00:49:38 ◼   ► that probably 15 minutes while people are over my shoulder looking, staring daggers

00:49:41 ◼   ► at me because I'm using it, they want to use it.

00:49:47 ◼   ► the I think it's not going to be much of an adaptation period. I really don't. I think

00:49:53 ◼   ► you hold it in your hand. The way it worked for me, I hold it in my hand, I move my thumb

00:49:57 ◼   ► down to where I'm just again non-thinking. I'm moving my thumb down to the button to

00:50:01 ◼   ► tap the button. Hey, guess where my thumb is? It's down at the bottom of the screen.

00:50:06 ◼   ► What do I do? I put my thumb down and instead of pressing, I flick. That's it. Like the

00:50:12 ◼   ► The gesture is, first off, pressing the button is a gesture.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Right, it's a gesture UI.

00:50:19 ◼   ► It's more obvious because there's a button there

00:50:21 ◼   ► with a circle for you to press,

00:50:24 ◼   ► but it's still gestural UI.

00:50:25 ◼   ► - Especially when the buttons stop moving.

00:50:28 ◼   ► - So it's already gestural UI,

00:50:30 ◼   ► and this gesture is so close to that gesture

00:50:33 ◼   ► that I think it will take very little time.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And I'm just gonna come out and say it.

00:50:38 ◼   ► I think it's past time,

00:50:42 ◼   ► and I think it's time for the home button to go

00:50:44 ◼   ► and I am happy for the home button to go.

00:50:46 ◼   ► I have all this summer I've been thinking about this

00:50:49 ◼   ► as we've been doing, you know,

00:50:50 ◼   ► as the rumors have been out there

00:50:51 ◼   ► about a buttonless iPhone and all that.

00:50:53 ◼   ► I think it's been 10 years that we've been using this UI.

00:50:57 ◼   ► As comforting as a hardware button is to go back to home,

00:51:02 ◼   ► the fact is that's a simple gesture.

00:51:04 ◼   ► It's gonna be visible everywhere

00:51:06 ◼   ► with a little line thing that they're gonna do.

00:51:09 ◼   ► There are still other hardware buttons on the device,

00:51:11 ◼   ► but for that one, I'm okay with it.

00:51:13 ◼   ► I feel like Apple is driving iOS

00:51:16 ◼   ► to a new lexicon of gestures.

00:51:20 ◼   ► I think people will be able to get the basic gesture

00:51:22 ◼   ► of flipping up from the bottom to go home.

00:51:26 ◼   ► And the more complex gestures like flipping up

00:51:29 ◼   ► and holding to switch apps,

00:51:32 ◼   ► like not everybody's gonna get that, but that's okay,

00:51:35 ◼   ► 'cause not everybody needs to get that,

00:51:36 ◼   ► 'cause flipping up to go home

00:51:37 ◼   ► will get you back to your list of apps,

00:51:39 ◼   ► and then you can find the next app you wanna launch.

00:51:41 ◼   ► So I'm kind of a believer in it.

00:51:44 ◼   ► I'm okay with it going everywhere

00:51:45 ◼   ► on every iOS device over time.

00:51:47 ◼   ► And I do actually think that's gonna happen.

00:51:49 ◼   ► I think that the home buttons days are numbered now

00:51:52 ◼   ► because it takes up a lot of space

00:51:55 ◼   ► on the bezel of every device

00:51:56 ◼   ► because it's not just where the button is.

00:51:58 ◼   ► You have to make room for that button.

00:51:59 ◼   ► And that means unless you wanna do a notch

00:52:01 ◼   ► around the button, don't do that.

00:52:02 ◼   ► It's a bad idea.

00:52:04 ◼   ► Just get rid of it.

00:52:05 ◼   ► That's a button that can be gone.

00:52:06 ◼   ► You can't get rid of the sensors.

00:52:07 ◼   ► You can get rid of the button.

00:52:08 ◼   ► So yeah, I think it works, I think it's fine.

00:52:12 ◼   ► And I think that it's the start of a new chapter for Apple

00:52:18 ◼   ► in terms of their gestures.

00:52:20 ◼   ► And I get that it's not obvious in the way

00:52:23 ◼   ► that a physical button is obvious

00:52:25 ◼   ► and that there's some user experience issues there.

00:52:29 ◼   ► But I think in the grand scheme of things,

00:52:31 ◼   ► we're at a very different place

00:52:32 ◼   ► in terms of who uses touchscreen devices

00:52:34 ◼   ► than we were 10 years ago.

00:52:35 ◼   ► And I think Apple can get away with it.

00:52:37 ◼   ► And I think it's better.

00:52:38 ◼   ► In the end, I think it's better because just like getting rid of the hardware keyboard

00:52:43 ◼   ► on the original iPhone, because that space could be better used as something that was

00:52:48 ◼   ► touchscreen and could be anything underneath instead of just a keyboard.

00:52:52 ◼   ► This is the same story, which is there's still a home gesture at the bottom of the screen,

00:52:56 ◼   ► but now all that space that was just nothing except a button is now a gestural area that's

00:53:03 ◼   ► programmable and I think it's better.

00:53:05 ◼   ► So as you were saying in your Macworld column this week, it's like the design ideal, right?

00:53:11 ◼   ► Like this is, this is, you know, the button was there because it was what we needed, it

00:53:15 ◼   ► was what was thought was required, but as time has gone on, the idea of design for the

00:53:20 ◼   ► iPhone is just a screen, so you need to let go of the chin, and if you let go of the chin,

00:53:25 ◼   ► you have to let go of the home button too.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Yeah, that was, Johnny Ive said it in the video right, he said, the screen, just a screen

00:53:35 ◼   ► has been what weve been working on for more, for ten years. Ten years the iPhone had just

00:53:40 ◼   ► come out right, so the clear implication there is, from the beginning, the design ideals

00:53:45 ◼   ► of the iPhone were as much screen as possible on the front. The screen, everything else,

00:53:51 ◼   ► said this back in 2007, everything else about the device should fall away and you should

00:53:57 ◼   ► be interacting with the screen. That was always the idea. And everything since then has been

00:54:05 ◼   ► how do we get closer to that ideal. And I feel like, and this is why I wrote about it

00:54:09 ◼   ► on a Mac for last week, I feel like this is the closest they've gotten. Obviously the

00:54:13 ◼   ► final ideal is that all of that other space, including the whole notch and all the sensors,

00:54:19 ◼   ► some way where they can make it that those are not visible and that it's just all screen,

00:54:25 ◼   ► but they can't get there yet. But I feel like this is Apple reaching the edges. Like this

00:54:31 ◼   ► has been all along, it's been a battle at Apple to make an iPhone where the screen reaches

00:54:36 ◼   ► the edges of the face of the device and that this is the phone that does that. So in some

00:54:42 ◼   ► ways it's an important milestone. Just like how I feel that the Apple Watch always was

00:54:50 ◼   ► headed toward having cellular connectivity, and that it kind of met its milestone of its

00:54:56 ◼   ► design ideal with the Series 3, because it's finally got that last piece that—not that

00:55:02 ◼   ► these products aren't going to evolve and grow and change, but like a fundamental thing

00:55:07 ◼   ► that was obvious that it needed to go there, it reached it. You know, minus the notch in

00:55:13 ◼   ► the case of the iPhone X, but it reached the edges everywhere else, which is, I think that

00:55:17 ◼   ► was the goal all along. And so it fits. It fits. But at the time, they felt that they

00:55:24 ◼   ► needed that tactile button. We're not giving you a whole keyboard, but we're going to put

00:55:29 ◼   ► a button down there and in emergencies you can press it to go home. And I don't think,

00:55:33 ◼   ► Apple doesn't think that's needed anymore,

00:55:35 ◼   ► and I think they're right.

00:55:36 ◼   ► I think they're right.

00:55:37 ◼   ► - I'm excited about this phone for some of these reasons.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Like whilst I'm a little bit apprehensive of the change

00:55:48 ◼   ► and wondering how that's gonna feel,

00:55:50 ◼   ► my ultimate feeling is excitement

00:55:52 ◼   ► because this is going to be the most new feeling iPhone

00:55:57 ◼   ► in a very, very, very long time

00:55:59 ◼   ► for all of these reasons, right?

00:56:00 ◼   ► Not just because it looks different,

00:56:02 ◼   ► not just because the screen is different,

00:56:04 ◼   ► but because there are brand new ways to interact with it,

00:56:06 ◼   ► ways that are completely different to any other iOS device.

00:56:11 ◼   ► It is very intriguing.

00:56:13 ◼   ► - 2017, I'm gonna say as a, I don't know,

00:56:17 ◼   ► one of a small group of unofficial iOS historians,

00:56:21 ◼   ► I guess, right, watching this for a long time,

00:56:23 ◼   ► paying close attention.

00:56:25 ◼   ► I feel like, obviously the design milestone

00:56:28 ◼   ► where they threw out the the skeuomorphism is a milestone of iOS.

00:56:33 ◼   ► Yeah, iOS 7. But this this year I think is going to go down as a almost like

00:56:41 ◼   ► volume 2 like of iOS conception where Apple's rolling out a bunch of things

00:56:46 ◼   ► that are redefining fundamental parts of iOS and I a lot of them are manifest in

00:56:53 ◼   ► the iPhone 10 and the rest of them are manifest in the iOS 11 interface on the

00:56:58 ◼   ► iPad. And I think that they go hand in hand. I think they were all designed

00:57:02 ◼   ► together. I think they're all in lockstep. I think they are all about Apple driving

00:57:08 ◼   ► some certain gestures forward and having things be more consistent and different

00:57:12 ◼   ► than they were before across iOS devices. And so big year 2017 between the

00:57:21 ◼   ► iPhone 10 and iOS 11 for Apple redefining what it means to use iOS.

00:57:27 ◼   ► and I think it's good and I think it's gonna kick off more changes that are

00:57:31 ◼   ► gonna stem from these changes and are gonna advance the ball in the in the

00:57:35 ◼   ► future but the big steps forward because because right I mean the iPhone I mean

00:57:39 ◼   ► the iPad running iOS 11 is also a very different feel just like the iPhone 10

00:57:44 ◼   ► is going to be a very different feel from previous iPhones and and so both

00:57:48 ◼   ► sides of the iOS equation have are getting these you know refinks this year

00:57:52 ◼   ► it's exciting. I turned on my old 12.9 inch iPad Pro to wipe it or to restore

00:58:00 ◼   ► it because I'm selling it to a friend and I was like what is this? Just seeing

00:58:05 ◼   ► that iOS 10 home screen with the big dock and everything it was like wow okay

00:58:12 ◼   ► I've really gotten used to this over the last three months. So what is this this

00:58:16 ◼   ► wasteland here that I have? It was a strange feeling. We could talk about iOS

00:58:22 ◼   ► 11 next week though in more detail of course we yeah because it comes out

00:58:26 ◼   ► tomorrow comes out in the 19th so we're gonna talk about more detail next week

00:58:31 ◼   ► because we still have more iPhone stuff to talk about this week's episode is

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00:59:59 ◼   ► the continued support of this show and Real AFM. Face ID. Craig Federighi has been on a bit of

01:00:07 ◼   ► damage control I believe I feel over the last week namely giving an interview to

01:00:14 ◼   ► Matt Pansarino at TechCrunch and appearing on episode 200 congratulations

01:00:19 ◼   ► John Gruber of the talk show if you can call it an episode I mean it was only

01:00:25 ◼   ► 30 minutes long yeah episode of the talk show really this is that a fifth or

01:00:29 ◼   ► something yeah it's a frat it's a fractional episode of the talk show it

01:00:34 ◼   ► It was a segment. It was a segment of the talk show broken out into its own episode.

01:00:40 ◼   ► I am not surprised about this though. I had a family gathering over the weekend. It was

01:00:45 ◼   ► my mom's birthday and me and my uncle. My uncle works in the telecoms industry. So we

01:00:52 ◼   ► really have a great time talking about this type of stuff. So we're talking about the

01:00:56 ◼   ► iPhone 10. And my 80 year old grandmother turns to us and says, "That was the one that

01:01:02 ◼   ► didn't work on stage, right? So she knows. Because they showed up in the news. So everyone

01:01:11 ◼   ► knows that Face ID in its very first iteration, in its very first demo I should say, failed.

01:01:19 ◼   ► So they have been spending some time over the last week, at least Craig Federighi has,

01:01:26 ◼   ► at least in the places where the most ferocious users are. You know, so they go into the talk

01:01:34 ◼   ► show, go into TechCrunch.

01:01:35 ◼   ► MATT ROWE - Answering emails.

01:01:36 ◼   ► JAY WONG answering, yeah, answering emails from developers,

01:01:39 ◼   ► which MacRumors had, which I'll put a link to that in the show notes too. It's not a

01:01:43 ◼   ► good look, right? Like, this isn't what Apple want to happen.

01:01:47 ◼   ► MATT ROWE - No, I mean, obviously it was a mistake. It wasn't

01:01:50 ◼   ► actually a failure. They explained that it wasn't a failure. But, because apparently

01:01:57 ◼   ► what happened was there was a setup tech and they did lift, you know, they raised to wake

01:02:03 ◼   ► and then they were looking at the phone and it was trying to do face ID on them. And after

01:02:07 ◼   ► a certain number of scans, just as with touch ID, it fails and goes back to inputting the

01:02:11 ◼   ► password. And they didn't realize that that happened or could happen. And nobody else

01:02:18 ◼   ► checked before the event to make sure that the phone was ready to go for face ID. And

01:02:24 ◼   ► so, you know, it wasn't a failure of face ID. It was a failure of setup preparation.

01:02:30 ◼   ► Yeah, it was, it was locked needing a password and then it worked right on the other, on

01:02:37 ◼   ► the other line, but it's tough, right? What a time for a demo fail. And there it was,

01:02:41 ◼   ► there was a demo fail and Craig and Craig didn't understand it. Didn't understand what

01:02:45 ◼   ► he was doing because obviously he's got his mind on doing his presentation. He didn't

01:02:48 ◼   ► realize that what he was looking at was the add password or enter password screen which

01:02:53 ◼   ► he could have done and then locked it and then done the demo too but he didn't realize

01:02:58 ◼   ► that either. So now they have to recast and it's just it's tough because this is your

01:03:01 ◼   ► big moment and it had a false start.

01:03:05 ◼   ► If you ever wanted proof to the conspiracy theory that all of these demos are staged,

01:03:12 ◼   ► this is it, right? Because what they should have done in hindsight, you know, like if

01:03:18 ◼   ► they believe it works and know it works to assure that it's going to work, change the

01:03:24 ◼   ► code in this build on this phone so it would definitely authenticate him.

01:03:29 ◼   ► Well, I guess so. I guess that would be the way to do it. Hard coded for Federighi face

01:03:35 ◼   ► and just…

01:03:36 ◼   ► Exactly. And unlock every single iPhone. But in a way, I'm happy that they don't, that

01:03:41 ◼   ► this did happen because it shows that they don't do that, right? Which is always a question

01:03:45 ◼   ► in my mind of like, you know, I know this stuff works but like it's not ready yet, like

01:03:50 ◼   ► do they do anything to kind of to massage things? But anyway, I'm keen to understand

01:03:57 ◼   ► how this works in Myke Hurley's life. Like, what was happening to their phone? What was

01:04:04 ◼   ► it doing, right? So they're saying that like, you know, the reason this happened is that

01:04:09 ◼   ► the phones were being handled and it was trying to scan faces.

01:04:13 ◼   ► It was waking up. I mean that's the key thing is if you tap, if you can tap to wake or lift

01:04:17 ◼   ► to wake, it was waking up and then trying to do a scan and failing. And in normal use

01:04:23 ◼   ► they must feel, Apple's also, another thing, talk about the damage control, another thing

01:04:28 ◼   ► they've done is they've kind of rustled up other people, Apple employees who've been

01:04:33 ◼   ► using the iPhone 10 and those people have been talking to people they know and saying,

01:04:37 ◼   ► oh, I've been using this for months and it's fine.

01:04:39 ◼   ► Don't worry about it.

01:04:40 ◼   ► Just to get that, just that I've seen several people say,

01:04:42 ◼   ► oh, I've talked to the people I know at Apple

01:04:44 ◼   ► who've been using this and they say that it's fine

01:04:46 ◼   ► and it works great, right?

01:04:47 ◼   ► So that's also happening here, whether organically--

01:04:50 ◼   ► - Send the birdies out, let them fly.

01:04:52 ◼   ► - Whether organically or whether somebody is like,

01:04:53 ◼   ► yeah, you should mention that to your friends in the press

01:04:55 ◼   ► that it works fine.

01:04:57 ◼   ► But yeah, it's, the problem here is we don't know

01:05:02 ◼   ► because we haven't used it.

01:05:03 ◼   ► And even the press at the event,

01:05:05 ◼   ► I was lording it over you earlier, you know,

01:05:08 ◼   ► but I can't on this.

01:05:09 ◼   ► Like face ID is one per,

01:05:11 ◼   ► nobody was training their faces at the event, right?

01:05:14 ◼   ► So I have to take it on the word of the Apple employee

01:05:16 ◼   ► who I saw use face ID.

01:05:18 ◼   ► And that's at a kiosk in a crowded demo center.

01:05:21 ◼   ► It's not day-to-day use.

01:05:22 ◼   ► So nobody has any personal experience with this.

01:05:25 ◼   ► We have to take Apple at its word.

01:05:27 ◼   ► And guess what?

01:05:28 ◼   ► People are always gonna be skeptical of new stuff,

01:05:30 ◼   ► even from Apple, especially from Apple, who knows?

01:05:33 ◼   ► But they're always gonna be skeptical.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Now I look at it and think,

01:05:35 ◼   ► everybody was skeptical about Touch ID,

01:05:37 ◼   ► and how did that work out?

01:05:38 ◼   ► It worked out fine.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Doesn't mean this will work out fine,

01:05:41 ◼   ► but it does mean the skepticism is not fundamentally

01:05:45 ◼   ► because this is likely to fail.

01:05:49 ◼   ► It's because it's new

01:05:51 ◼   ► and we haven't experienced anything like it.

01:05:53 ◼   ► And so we don't understand,

01:05:55 ◼   ► and until we see it and how it's implemented

01:05:57 ◼   ► and how it works for ourselves,

01:05:59 ◼   ► we're gonna be skeptical of it.

01:06:01 ◼   ► And that's, I think, totally fair.

01:06:03 ◼   ► Now, the problem with the failure or the demo failure,

01:06:07 ◼   ► if not technology failure, is that it plays into that fear.

01:06:10 ◼   ► So, Apple's not gonna be able to solve this

01:06:15 ◼   ► until they get reviewers writing about how the face ID works

01:06:19 ◼   ► and then people actually use them.

01:06:20 ◼   ► And it's gonna be telling the value of having people

01:06:23 ◼   ► write about and talk about technology

01:06:25 ◼   ► is we can talk about our personal experiences

01:06:28 ◼   ► and tell the story of like,

01:06:29 ◼   ► well, I used it in my everyday life

01:06:31 ◼   ► and this is what I found and this is how it worked

01:06:33 ◼   ► and have it be credible perhaps in a way

01:06:36 ◼   ► that an Apple, you know, somebody paid by Apple,

01:06:40 ◼   ► an Apple employee is not gonna be as credible about it.

01:06:42 ◼   ► But a lot of people are just gonna need to see it

01:06:44 ◼   ► for themselves or hear it from a trusted source.

01:06:46 ◼   ► And that's just where we are with it.

01:06:50 ◼   ► And there will be, we talked about this a couple weeks ago,

01:06:52 ◼   ► there are gonna be issues.

01:06:53 ◼   ► There are gonna be things where people are like,

01:06:54 ◼   ► "Oh, did you know that it didn't do this?"

01:06:56 ◼   ► Or, "Oh, I found a funny, they always said

01:06:58 ◼   ► "that my sister and I looked alike

01:06:59 ◼   ► "and turns out that she can unlock my phone.

01:07:01 ◼   ► "Oh, isn't that funny?"

01:07:03 ◼   ► I mean, we're gonna get those stories.

01:07:04 ◼   ► They're gonna be weird quirks,

01:07:06 ◼   ► things we learn about failures and successes

01:07:10 ◼   ► and false positives and all of that is gonna happen,

01:07:12 ◼   ► but we don't know yet.

01:07:13 ◼   ► And so we've got a vacuum and you know what happens

01:07:16 ◼   ► when there's information about Apple

01:07:18 ◼   ► and nobody actually knows the facts

01:07:19 ◼   ► is that the noise fills the gap.

01:07:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm really intrigued to see how it plays out.

01:07:29 ◼   ► I think that measured skepticism is a healthy practice.

01:07:34 ◼   ► Don't just believe it's gonna work because Apple made it,

01:07:37 ◼   ► but don't believe it's not gonna work because Apple made it.

01:07:39 ◼   ► You know, I feel like you can,

01:07:41 ◼   ► that there is a measurement

01:07:43 ◼   ► that everybody should follow with this, right?

01:07:46 ◼   ► I'm confident that they wouldn't have made this decision

01:07:49 ◼   ► if it didn't work as good as Touch ID or Close To,

01:07:53 ◼   ► but I don't necessarily think

01:07:54 ◼   ► that just because Apple have added this

01:07:56 ◼   ► that it's better than anything else.

01:07:58 ◼   ► I'm going to wait to see on that one personally.

01:08:01 ◼   ► There were some clarifications that came out

01:08:03 ◼   ► in these two places and some additional information

01:08:05 ◼   ► that we didn't have before.

01:08:07 ◼   ► And so I kind of wanted to run through

01:08:10 ◼   ► a couple of these things.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Wearing sunglasses will work fine in most instances

01:08:15 ◼   ► because the IR camera, the IR scanner

01:08:18 ◼   ► can see through sunglass lenses.

01:08:22 ◼   ► There are some instances where like there are some kinds

01:08:24 ◼   ► of coatings that can block IR.

01:08:27 ◼   ► and obviously they wouldn't work

01:08:29 ◼   ► because of the attention detection, right?

01:08:31 ◼   ► So it's not just scanning your face,

01:08:34 ◼   ► the iPhone X has to see that you're looking at it.

01:08:37 ◼   ► But you can turn off attention detection if you want to.

01:08:40 ◼   ► So it's just scanning your face,

01:08:42 ◼   ► so Apple has this as an accessibility option for people.

01:08:45 ◼   ► Blind people is obviously one of them,

01:08:47 ◼   ► who may not be able to look at the screen.

01:08:49 ◼   ► - Shelley Brisbane, who writes a lot about accessibility,

01:08:51 ◼   ► was on download last week and we talked about this.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And yeah, that is a,

01:08:54 ◼   ► it's not surprising given Apple's attention to accessibility

01:08:57 ◼   ► that they would be accessibility features in face ID.

01:09:00 ◼   ► And this is one of them where if you're incapable

01:09:03 ◼   ► of being scanned as having your attention

01:09:08 ◼   ► being given to face ID, you can turn that off.

01:09:11 ◼   ► And similarly, if you are incapable of moving

01:09:16 ◼   ► your head or neck for multiple face scans,

01:09:20 ◼   ► you can actually have it only do a single scan.

01:09:24 ◼   ► So there is definitely accessibility

01:09:26 ◼   ► built into this, Apple has tried to make this as accessible a feature as possible.

01:09:31 ◼   ► So if you have a favorite pair of sunglasses and you're unwilling to change them because

01:09:37 ◼   ► they're your favorites and you're going to be spending a day at the beach you can just

01:09:40 ◼   ► turn off the attention detection for the day. So it still scans your face but it doesn't

01:09:44 ◼   ► need to see your eyes which is a good feature to have of course. Also as well, this is good,

01:09:51 ◼   ► I'm happy for this change. I think we've spoken about this or you know, I've heard it in many

01:09:56 ◼   ► places by now that iOS 11 includes this mode where you can hit the lock button 5 times,

01:10:03 ◼   ► the sleep/wake button 5 times and it enters a kind of a mode which serves many purposes.

01:10:10 ◼   ► One is emergency mode right, to bring up the emergency calling so you can dial an emergency

01:10:15 ◼   ► number and you can have it automatically call an emergency service if you want which is

01:10:18 ◼   ► very similar to what exists on the Apple Watch right now but it does a couple of other things

01:10:23 ◼   ► and one of them is to turn off biometrics,

01:10:27 ◼   ► so it turns off touch ID.

01:10:28 ◼   ► So then to be able to enter a phone,

01:10:31 ◼   ► you have to put the passcode in.

01:10:32 ◼   ► And this can be really good for if you're in a situation

01:10:36 ◼   ► where you don't trust an enforcement official,

01:10:39 ◼   ► maybe you're going through customs, maybe, you know,

01:10:41 ◼   ► and you just don't want to be in a situation

01:10:43 ◼   ► where somebody can compel you to unlock your phone

01:10:46 ◼   ► without having legal representation nearby.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Well, on the iPhone 8 and iPhone 10,

01:10:53 ◼   ► you don't need to hit the button five times, you just grip the phone pressing both buttons

01:10:57 ◼   ► for down for a period of time and it will enter this mode and I think that's a way better way of

01:11:03 ◼   ► doing this than hitting the button five times because I could do that through my jeans,

01:11:08 ◼   ► right? Like I could do that and then you squeeze it, you just go squeeze the buttons and it's,

01:11:13 ◼   ► you know, you can feel them especially how big the new buttons seem to be on the

01:11:16 ◼   ► on the 10 especially and you get a haptic feedback to confirm that it's entered into the mode. I

01:11:21 ◼   ► I think this is really great. I hadn't seen this mentioned anywhere else except for in

01:11:25 ◼   ► these two places in this article with Matt Pansarino and on the talk show episode 200.

01:11:33 ◼   ► It's really good. I like that this feature is going to exist and I like that they've

01:11:39 ◼   ► made it easier on these new devices.

01:11:44 ◼   ► One and then just a couple of other things I wanted to just pull out real quick from

01:11:46 ◼   ► TechCrunch article which is much much longer and went into more depth. Apple took well

01:11:53 ◼   ► Federighi took great steps to reiterate the lengths that Apple took to ensure privacy

01:11:57 ◼   ► on the devices. Confirmed that there is no light shone in your face. I don't think that Apple's

01:12:04 ◼   ► marketing is helping them here. I initially thought that there was some kind of light

01:12:09 ◼   ► shone in your face like that your face was illuminated by the phone in some way to scan

01:12:15 ◼   ► because all of their marketing shows that and I know what they're just trying to show you how it

01:12:19 ◼   ► works but I think a lot of people are confused by this. I'm sure that they debated this and I had

01:12:27 ◼   ► the same thought you did and knowing how it works I'm watching them describe it and thinking oh man

01:12:33 ◼   ► people are going to think that you actually are illuminated by these sensors and things like that

01:12:38 ◼   ► when it's actually all happening in infrared and I know they tried but I felt like as I was watching

01:12:43 ◼   ► and I thought you should have set this up better.

01:12:45 ◼   ► - They didn't do a good job of defining it initially.

01:12:47 ◼   ► - You should have set it up as all of this happens

01:12:50 ◼   ► in infrared, so you never see anything.

01:12:53 ◼   ► And then even like on the slides where they show

01:12:55 ◼   ► the person's face illuminated, like show it not illuminated

01:13:00 ◼   ► and say, this is what it looks like to you.

01:13:02 ◼   ► But in infrared, it looks like this

01:13:04 ◼   ► and we use that information and just like lean into it

01:13:07 ◼   ► because a lot of people ended up reading it as,

01:13:10 ◼   ► well, I look at my iPhone and a beam of light shines

01:13:13 ◼   ► all over my face and little dots dance around

01:13:16 ◼   ► and then my phone up, it seems like a little showy

01:13:18 ◼   ► to unlock a phone that way, but okay, I guess.

01:13:20 ◼   ► - My face goes purple for a few minutes

01:13:21 ◼   ► and then here we go.

01:13:23 ◼   ► And then a couple of other little details.

01:13:26 ◼   ► Apple will be releasing a Face ID security white paper

01:13:29 ◼   ► and Federighi also did some further clarification

01:13:36 ◼   ► on what angle you need for the phone

01:13:39 ◼   ► to be able to see your face,

01:13:40 ◼   ► which I knew was a thing that everybody

01:13:42 ◼   ► was spending a lot of time thinking about before the phone was released. What angle

01:13:47 ◼   ► does the phone need to be at? How much of your face does it need to see to authenticate?

01:13:52 ◼   ► Do you need to perform a selfie action every time you want to unlock your phone?

01:13:57 ◼   ► So I'll read a quote, "It's quite similar to the ranges that you'd be at if you put

01:14:01 ◼   ► your phone in front facing camera mode." As if you were taking a selfie picture. "Once

01:14:06 ◼   ► your space from your eyes to your mouth come into view, you would be at the matching range

01:14:12 ◼   ► so it can work at fairly extreme angles. If it's down low because your phone is in your lap it can

01:14:18 ◼   ► unlock it as long as it can see those features. Basically if you're using your phone across a

01:14:23 ◼   ► natural series of angles it can unlock it. I really like the way that this was described,

01:14:27 ◼   ► if you can take a picture that has your eyes and your mouth in at whatever angle that may be,

01:14:35 ◼   ► the phone should be able to unlock. So I think that that's going to work. Basically my thinking

01:14:41 ◼   ► was like if I'm looking down at my phone, right, without like really leaning into it, will it unlock?

01:14:47 ◼   ► And yeah, it turns out it will. So I thought that that was really good and I appreciated that,

01:14:52 ◼   ► I appreciated that clarification. Well, if you think about like, can you see the screen of your

01:14:56 ◼   ► iPhone? Or can you see the screen of your iPhone? If you can see that, you're most of the way there.

01:15:02 ◼   ► It would then need to be that the space, somehow the space between your eyes and your mouth is

01:15:07 ◼   ► blocked by something. So which I like the idea the natural series of angles. Again,

01:15:12 ◼   ► we're going to find people everybody's going to try this and say, oh, well, it worked here

01:15:15 ◼   ► and it didn't work there and all of that. But I have seen a lot among the fear, uncertainty

01:15:21 ◼   ► and doubt spreading around face ID. One of the ones I have seen is I don't want to pick

01:15:27 ◼   ► up my phone and look at it to unlock it. It's like, well, shouldn't really have to do that.

01:15:31 ◼   ► And in fact, the way it should work is you should be able to pick up your phone and it's

01:15:37 ◼   ► unlocked or you should be able to, if it's in the right angle, just flick it

01:15:41 ◼   ► open on the table and it's unlocked because it can see you.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Now there are going to be cases where that's not the case, but, um, but that's

01:15:50 ◼   ► the, that's the ideal here is pick it up, flick and it's, and it's unlocked.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Um, and in fact, somebody, uh, I read somebody said, I would really love to

01:16:00 ◼   ► have it where if I unlock it, it just automatically goes to the home screen.

01:16:04 ◼   ► I don't know if Apple's gonna add that as an option,

01:16:06 ◼   ► but it's not bad.

01:16:08 ◼   ► Like if I look at my phone, it unlocks and takes,

01:16:12 ◼   ► like takes, yes sir, I take you to the home screen

01:16:14 ◼   ► right away, sir.

01:16:15 ◼   ► And one time you glare at it.

01:16:17 ◼   ► But yeah, that's how it's supposed to work.

01:16:19 ◼   ► So we'll see how it works in practice.

01:16:21 ◼   ► - Could be an accessibility option, right?

01:16:23 ◼   ► There is the one in the current phones, right?

01:16:25 ◼   ► Where it will just go straight home

01:16:28 ◼   ► once Touch ID is authenticated, like that's the thing.

01:16:32 ◼   ► - Well, if that's a thing, then presumably

01:16:33 ◼   ► that will still be an option and you can flip that on and then when you look at the phone

01:16:36 ◼   ► it will just take you to the home screen without a flick which is fine. Great.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know what the, I mean I know that was a thing, I don't know if it still

01:16:46 ◼   ► is a thing, I believe so, I believe so. You know, remember when they changed it from the

01:16:51 ◼   ► raise to wake? Yeah, rest finger to open. Open iPhone with touch ID without having to

01:16:56 ◼   ► press the home button. So you would raise. Yeah, so it's possible.

01:17:00 ◼   ► So there are ways around it, but we'll see.

01:17:02 ◼   ► I mean, we'll see, I'm not sure.

01:17:05 ◼   ► You wanted to mention a product

01:17:06 ◼   ► that we didn't get any time to talk about

01:17:08 ◼   ► last week, surprisingly.

01:17:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's another Apple accessory

01:17:12 ◼   ► and it's kind of boring.

01:17:14 ◼   ► And yet I think it's really interesting.

01:17:16 ◼   ► So for $100, for $99, 'cause again,

01:17:19 ◼   ► it's not just a 999 phone,

01:17:21 ◼   ► it's everything that you buy for it.

01:17:23 ◼   ► But this is the first time Apple has done this on the iPhone.

01:17:25 ◼   ► It is an iPhone folio case.

01:17:28 ◼   ► that means that it's got a cover

01:17:30 ◼   ► and it's actually got a slot for you to put like

01:17:34 ◼   ► money or credit cards or whatever.

01:17:36 ◼   ► But the thing that's different is you flip it open

01:17:41 ◼   ► and your iPhone wakes up and you flip it closed

01:17:44 ◼   ► and your iPhone goes to sleep,

01:17:45 ◼   ► which has been the case on the iPad forever,

01:17:50 ◼   ► but has never been supported on the iPhone before.

01:17:55 ◼   ► And the iPhone 10 apparently supports it.

01:17:57 ◼   ► the iPhone 10 has a magnet in it.

01:17:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:18:00 ◼   ► - This was found in the GM leak that came before the keynote.

01:18:03 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:18:04 ◼   ► Yep, so this is the result is presumably

01:18:07 ◼   ► all the third party case makers will be able to do this too,

01:18:09 ◼   ► but Apple has a folio case and I think it's good.

01:18:13 ◼   ► It's not for everybody.

01:18:14 ◼   ► I think it's not for most people,

01:18:15 ◼   ► but I definitely know people who really like

01:18:18 ◼   ► having their iPhone with a cover on the case.

01:18:22 ◼   ► And of course right now you flip it open

01:18:25 ◼   ► and then you've got to wake it up

01:18:27 ◼   ► because it doesn't have that iPad experience

01:18:29 ◼   ► and this one does and this is a product from Apple

01:18:31 ◼   ► 'cause Apple builds what Apple wants to build for itself.

01:18:34 ◼   ► And it's good.

01:18:37 ◼   ► I'm happy to see it,

01:18:38 ◼   ► even though I'm not in the market for it.

01:18:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think this is a weird product.

01:18:42 ◼   ► I know--

01:18:43 ◼   ► - Oh, totally weird product.

01:18:45 ◼   ► - I mean, there's just a couple of things

01:18:46 ◼   ► that I find funny about it.

01:18:47 ◼   ► One of them is that it has space for cards in it,

01:18:51 ◼   ► which is hilarious considering the fact

01:18:54 ◼   ► that Apple Pay exists as a thing.

01:18:56 ◼   ► and that this would cause problems in places where you use contactless cards

01:19:02 ◼   ► like you'd have to open the the wallet every time you couldn't just press your

01:19:06 ◼   ► wallet against it because it would be trying to read either the Apple Pay

01:19:09 ◼   ► sensor or the card or both so you'd have to open it up every time but yeah if

01:19:16 ◼   ► this is a type of thing that you want you probably already know that which

01:19:19 ◼   ► means you most likely already own one of these and sure if Apple makes one great

01:19:24 ◼   ► but it does cost $100 so you know that's on you but yeah it is this is a I do find it a

01:19:31 ◼   ► strange product to debut now like it just seems like if you haven't done this already

01:19:37 ◼   ► why are you doing it now but they are and if you want it it's available for you

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01:21:33 ◼   ► for their support. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website. Jason Snell

01:21:39 ◼   ► You'll never guess what is back!

01:21:45 ◼   ► After a summer break, it was rested, it's tanned, rested, and ready, Myke. It's ready

01:21:49 ◼   ► to come back. It's #AskUpgrade.

01:21:51 ◼   ► Alright, I have like a billion questions, so we're gonna do as many as we can do within

01:21:58 ◼   ► the time that we have left. So maybe we can lightning round these, let's see.

01:22:02 ◼   ► Is this, sure, okay, let's see. What's the segment like, Myke? Is this like Ask ATP?

01:22:07 ◼   ► No, this is a trademark

01:22:09 ◼   ► Ask #askupgrade

01:22:13 ◼   ► Jay asked which would you prefer Apple watch with LTE or an always on watch face?

01:22:19 ◼   ► So we have Apple watches of LTE available now

01:22:22 ◼   ► But if given the choice would we choose to have an always on watch face over LTE?

01:22:26 ◼   ► I think Apple watch with LTE is like I said earlier a fundamental change in the usefulness of the Apple watch

01:22:33 ◼   ► And so I would always prefer it

01:22:35 ◼   ► I would really like it if I could select a face or let it do a like a low power face that was always on

01:22:43 ◼   ► And and like fade it up

01:22:46 ◼   ► I feel like they must be getting close to that that maybe next year's watch OS update will do something like that because

01:22:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I would like I would like to be able to glance at my watch and sometimes it doesn't wake up and still see the time

01:22:59 ◼   ► and

01:23:00 ◼   ► You can't do that now. So I would like that but the LTE that is a core

01:23:05 ◼   ► That's why I'm buying a new Apple watch. It's like that's gonna be awesome

01:23:08 ◼   ► I agree with you completely, you know

01:23:10 ◼   ► both of these features would have a

01:23:12 ◼   ► Significant impact on battery life and I believe Apple is deciding to tackle them one at a time based on what they think is the most

01:23:18 ◼   ► Important and I'm surprised if you would asked if you would ask me when the Apple watch was announced

01:23:23 ◼   ► Whether in 2017 with watch OS 4

01:23:26 ◼   ► They would have figured out how to do enough battery savings to do an always on watch face

01:23:31 ◼   ► I would have said of course and they haven't and so that's disappointing

01:23:35 ◼   ► But if you would ask me if they'd have a an LTE version by 2017

01:23:39 ◼   ► I would have said maybe right and they do so that's good

01:23:43 ◼   ► Justin wants to know do you think that the inductive charging?

01:23:47 ◼   ► capabilities on the new iPhones will allow Apple or third parties to make new battery cases that are smaller in profile I

01:23:56 ◼   ► So I would love somebody who has knowledge of the Android accessory market to tell us if these cases exist for Android.

01:24:04 ◼   ► Because if they do, then the answer is yes.

01:24:07 ◼   ► And if they don't, the answer is, I guess there's a reason why that doesn't work.

01:24:13 ◼   ► Because you would think one of the nice things about inductive charging would be you could make a battery case that doesn't have to be plugged into the device, right?

01:24:21 ◼   ► It just goes on the back and the power flows into the device.

01:24:26 ◼   ► But I did a quick search and I couldn't find any,

01:24:31 ◼   ► that doesn't mean there aren't any.

01:24:34 ◼   ► So I'd be curious for people who will come

01:24:36 ◼   ► from the Android world where there's been wireless charging

01:24:38 ◼   ► for quite a while about whether this is a thing or not,

01:24:41 ◼   ► because I like that idea, right?

01:24:43 ◼   ► The idea that you could have a case

01:24:46 ◼   ► that is not extending below your phone

01:24:49 ◼   ► and plugging up the lightning port,

01:24:52 ◼   ► that it's just a hump on the back with battery

01:24:56 ◼   ► and it just magically charges your phone

01:24:58 ◼   ► and gets out of the way of your ports.

01:25:00 ◼   ► That's awesome.

01:25:01 ◼   ► Like when you're traveling, you could have longer life

01:25:03 ◼   ► without if you're listening on a set of headphones

01:25:07 ◼   ► using the lightning adapter

01:25:08 ◼   ► and you can't charge your device, right?

01:25:10 ◼   ► But you could via the inductive battery pack.

01:25:13 ◼   ► But my guess from what my cursory Googling has shown

01:25:18 ◼   ► is that maybe there are issues with this,

01:25:21 ◼   ► that the kind of power that needs to be provided

01:25:23 ◼   ► to an inductive charger is not efficient enough

01:25:28 ◼   ► or strong enough to be something

01:25:30 ◼   ► that can come from a battery pack, but I don't know.

01:25:31 ◼   ► I'd love to hear that.

01:25:33 ◼   ► - My guess is that the technology required

01:25:38 ◼   ► is too physically large.

01:25:43 ◼   ► - Too big, too big, that could be.

01:25:45 ◼   ► - And that's why there haven't been any yet.

01:25:47 ◼   ► and/or still too early to get a little bit too worried about cases exploding in pockets.

01:25:55 ◼   ► Yeah, but I would love it. I mean, I would really love it if there was an inductive

01:25:59 ◼   ► charging thing. I'm still a little bit surprised that Apple didn't do something like the smart

01:26:04 ◼   ► connector that is completely low profile and not a port, but that you could put a case on and it

01:26:11 ◼   ► it would feed battery into it. Although not fast, right? The smart connector is inductive

01:26:17 ◼   ► and it's very slow. But if you leave the case on all the time, then it just sort of will

01:26:23 ◼   ► keep refilling the battery. But I don't know. I'd love to hear.

01:26:28 ◼   ► Tony asked, "Does anyone know what's going on with AirPlay 2? It was conspicuously absent

01:26:33 ◼   ► from the iPhone event. Saving for the HomePod event?"

01:26:36 ◼   ► So here's one thing I just want to say, Tony. Thank you for the question. I don't think

01:26:40 ◼   ► it was conspicuously absent. I think it was kind of mostly not worth bringing up in an

01:26:46 ◼   ► event that was already super packed. Mostly because there isn't too much to say right

01:26:51 ◼   ► now as there aren't products that will support it. There are many speaker manufacturers have

01:26:56 ◼   ► signed on and Apple has provided a list of these somewhere, lots and lots and lots of

01:27:01 ◼   ► speaker manufacturers, all of the big names. To make devices that will include AirPlay

01:27:06 ◼   ► after iOS 11 launches. I expect there will be some PR releases about it at some point

01:27:11 ◼   ► over the next few weeks. There might be like a newsroom article about "hey look at these

01:27:16 ◼   ► AirPlay 2 devices" and if there is a HomePod event maybe they would talk about it then,

01:27:21 ◼   ► maybe but I'm not convinced there even will be a HomePod event. But I just don't think

01:27:26 ◼   ► that it's too important right now.

01:27:28 ◼   ► Yeah this was not an iOS 11 event right? This was an event for the hardware. iOS 11 already

01:27:33 ◼   ► got a lot of time in June at WWDC. It is shipping, which is great. Shipping tomorrow. So this

01:27:39 ◼   ► week we may even see the all the press releases about now supports AirPlay 2 blah blah blah

01:27:43 ◼   ► because you can't really sell AirPlay 2 speakers when it's not officially supported by any

01:27:48 ◼   ► Apple devices. But as of iOS 11 it will be and I would imagine that there will be announcements

01:27:53 ◼   ► and launches and press releases and then it'll all start kind of happening. But I'm not surprised

01:27:59 ◼   ► and I'm with you, I think it's unlikely we'll see another Apple event this year.

01:28:03 ◼   ► Doesn't mean it can't happen, but like the HomePod already got announced.

01:28:06 ◼   ► Everybody knows what it is. It just needs to ship and it's not gonna,

01:28:09 ◼   ► I don't think they're gonna do an announcement that, you know, like an event saying,

01:28:12 ◼   ► "Hey, it shipped!" Like that's, they don't need to do that. So I'm still in the camp of

01:28:17 ◼   ► no more, um, no more events this year. We'll see.

01:28:20 ◼   ► Rajiv wants to get our opinions now, our early predictions, um, on future iPad models. Do we

01:28:28 ◼   ► think that Touch ID will be on future iPad models? Could Face ID come to the

01:28:35 ◼   ► iPad and along with it a super slim bezel version? Feels like an eventuality

01:28:42 ◼   ► to me like yeah you could then charge even more for the iPad Pro which I'm

01:28:48 ◼   ► sure Tim would love to be able to do. I think my gut feeling is that they can

01:28:53 ◼   ► get there they they will start getting rid of the home button like I said

01:28:56 ◼   ► earlier. I don't know whether that'll happen next year or not, but it could. The advantage

01:29:01 ◼   ► of getting rid of the home button is they can either make the screen bigger or they

01:29:03 ◼   ► can make the device smaller and creep toward the edges of the display even further. Face

01:29:12 ◼   ► ID is going to be the killer, right? Because if you get rid of the home button, now you

01:29:18 ◼   ► need to do face ID.

01:29:19 ◼   ► >> Yeah, you have to. It has to.

01:29:21 ◼   ► >> I mean, this is the same argument as face ID on the Mac, right? Which is there's more

01:29:25 ◼   ► space to put this stuff. You don't need a notch, right, because these devices are so

01:29:30 ◼   ► much larger than the iPhone that you can just leave some space for the sensors. So I do

01:29:36 ◼   ► think it's inevitable that Face ID will exist on the iPad, but whether it's a 2018 thing

01:29:41 ◼   ► or a 2019 thing, I don't know. I think that would be great. OLED on the iPad is the other

01:29:49 ◼   ► answer and I think it's just going to be really hard to make an OLED screen that big and have

01:29:54 ◼   ► that's gonna be a really expensive device

01:29:57 ◼   ► and the iPad Pro is already pretty expensive.

01:29:59 ◼   ► It's gonna get even more expensive if they do that.

01:30:01 ◼   ► I think they wanna do that, right?

01:30:03 ◼   ► I think you look at the iPhone X,

01:30:04 ◼   ► it's like this is stuff Apple wants in all their products,

01:30:06 ◼   ► but it's gonna take a while to get there.

01:30:08 ◼   ► So I'd say it's less likely in 2018.

01:30:13 ◼   ► I think if I was a betting man about this,

01:30:15 ◼   ► I would say less than 50% for Face ID and stuff

01:30:19 ◼   ► in the iPad in 2018.

01:30:21 ◼   ► Also, we'll see, maybe the iPad is going its own way

01:30:24 ◼   ► in a lot of different ways, but I think Apple would be happy

01:30:27 ◼   ► to get the home button off the iPad,

01:30:30 ◼   ► and that would mean putting Face ID in.

01:30:32 ◼   ► - If I was gonna put a bet on it,

01:30:35 ◼   ► I would say that the next iPad Pro will go this way,

01:30:40 ◼   ► but that may not be in 2018.

01:30:43 ◼   ► Maybe two years.

01:30:46 ◼   ► - Interesting.

01:30:47 ◼   ► - Is the iPad Pro refresh rate now.

01:30:49 ◼   ► - Could be.

01:30:50 ◼   ► - And it may just be one of them that has it.

01:30:53 ◼   ► could be that would be that would be your iPad 10 basically I mean they're

01:30:56 ◼   ► not gonna call it that because I think they've got a they're in a happy place

01:30:59 ◼   ► now with the iPad but it would be in the iPad Pro right and it might be in it

01:31:04 ◼   ► might be in one it might be in both who knows but yeah I think that's right but

01:31:07 ◼   ► 20 you may be right I I'm skeptical about 2018 if there was an iPad Pro in

01:31:13 ◼   ► the fall of 2018 it's possible but we'll see I think it's my gut feeling is it's

01:31:19 ◼   ► less likely but it's not impossible.

01:31:21 ◼   ► Edie wants to know, "Do you think Touch ID will reappear once technically possible?"

01:31:26 ◼   ► Nope.

01:31:29 ◼   ► No. Except for one condition. That at scale, Face ID fails terribly.

01:31:36 ◼   ► That's the only way we see Touch ID come back.

01:31:38 ◼   ► I suppose. If Face ID doesn't work, then sure, they're going to have to go back to Touch ID,

01:31:44 ◼   ► but I think Apple's confident that Face ID will work, and that'll be the end for Touch ID.

01:31:50 ◼   ► I agree. Reed wants to know, "What do non-optimized apps look like on the iPhone X? Are they cut off

01:31:56 ◼   ► at the corners in the unibrow?" The wonderful James Thompson, I asked him this question because

01:32:01 ◼   ► I knew he'd been spending quite a bit of time in the simulator because as we spoke about earlier,

01:32:05 ◼   ► he's done some work with his fantastic app Peacock, which by the way, you need to try the

01:32:13 ◼   ► the new about screen/AR mode of Peacock.

01:32:17 ◼   ► - Oh my God. - Like you just have to.

01:32:19 ◼   ► I'm gonna put a link in the show notes

01:32:21 ◼   ► to a write up that you did at Six Colors, Jason.

01:32:24 ◼   ► James is wonderful.

01:32:25 ◼   ► - It's an about screen, AR mode, and a game.

01:32:28 ◼   ► - And a game. - It's also a game

01:32:29 ◼   ► where you drive a truck around.

01:32:31 ◼   ► - Or you could just drop bananas onto the Peacock icon.

01:32:34 ◼   ► Like, it's just sublime and amazing and wonderful

01:32:38 ◼   ► and fantastic and you have to just have to do it.

01:32:41 ◼   ► James wants to support every piece of hardware that exists,

01:32:44 ◼   ► so which is why there's Peacock for the Apple TV,

01:32:46 ◼   ► which is, yes, he knows it's absurd, but he doesn't care.

01:32:50 ◼   ► And he likes to support every feature,

01:32:51 ◼   ► so like drag and drop is supported

01:32:53 ◼   ► in the new version of Peacock,

01:32:54 ◼   ► and that because the code is shared,

01:32:55 ◼   ► it's now drag and drop on the Mac too,

01:32:58 ◼   ► which is kind of funny.

01:33:00 ◼   ► So iOS driving Mac features there.

01:33:02 ◼   ► And then, but then like you're a developer of a calculator

01:33:05 ◼   ► and there's all this great 3D and AR stuff

01:33:07 ◼   ► in the operating system, what are you to do?

01:33:10 ◼   ► And the answer is, yeah, he put an AR mode in.

01:33:13 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:33:14 ◼   ► - And you can throw dice and globes and bananas

01:33:17 ◼   ► into an AR space and watch them bounce around

01:33:20 ◼   ► and change the lighting.

01:33:21 ◼   ► - I was testing this probably like you

01:33:23 ◼   ► throughout the whole summer.

01:33:25 ◼   ► And it just got more and more absurd as the time went on.

01:33:30 ◼   ► When he was like, when he added the little car

01:33:32 ◼   ► and I was like, what are you doing?

01:33:34 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:33:36 ◼   ► - But yeah, I think what he said was,

01:33:38 ◼   ► I think I may have accidentally made a game.

01:33:40 ◼   ► - Yep, and you can connect a Bluetooth-enabled gamepad

01:33:46 ◼   ► to the device and drive the little car around if you want to

01:33:49 ◼   ► because the gamepad code is all in there

01:33:51 ◼   ► from when he supported the Apple TV.

01:33:53 ◼   ► Peacock is an amazing application.

01:33:56 ◼   ► We're spending time on this now

01:33:57 ◼   ► because you should buy it if you haven't.

01:33:58 ◼   ► But see, the thing is about James is

01:34:00 ◼   ► I know that he's not just wasting his time.

01:34:04 ◼   ► He implemented the drag and drop code incredibly quickly

01:34:07 ◼   ► and that was basically the only thing in iOS 11

01:34:10 ◼   ► that his app could take use of functionally.

01:34:13 ◼   ► So then he decided to play around with this other stuff

01:34:16 ◼   ► and then made something fun with it.

01:34:18 ◼   ► Right, like all it was at first was he'd spent so much time

01:34:21 ◼   ► to making these amazing additional icons

01:34:24 ◼   ► that you can get now, that he wanted to just render one

01:34:28 ◼   ► in SpriteKit in the about screen.

01:34:30 ◼   ► And then he did that quicker than he expected.

01:34:32 ◼   ► And then it just was just a trail of things

01:34:34 ◼   ► that he thought, I'll try this

01:34:36 ◼   ► and just kept doing them faster than he thought.

01:34:38 ◼   ► So he built an entire game inside of the app,

01:34:40 ◼   ► which is in itself kind of genius

01:34:42 ◼   ► because now we're spending so much time

01:34:43 ◼   ► talking about an update to a calculator.

01:34:45 ◼   ► Anyway, in the show notes is some screenshots

01:34:50 ◼   ► that James put together for me

01:34:52 ◼   ► of what a non-optimized app looks like.

01:34:56 ◼   ► And it's basically an iPhone app in the middle of the screen.

01:34:58 ◼   ► There is a big black bar at the bottom

01:35:00 ◼   ► and a big black bar at the top.

01:35:02 ◼   ► That's what it does.

01:35:03 ◼   ► For as much as the simulator can show you anyway.

01:35:05 ◼   ► - Yep, so that's what they look like.

01:35:07 ◼   ► So I hope that lots of apps support them quickly

01:35:09 ◼   ► because I would prefer not fantastic UI

01:35:14 ◼   ► to just black bars, right?

01:35:15 ◼   ► Like just give me the first round of them

01:35:18 ◼   ► and just make all the apps full screen

01:35:19 ◼   ► as much as you can do and then work it out later.

01:35:21 ◼   ► All right, couple more questions.

01:35:24 ◼   ► Travis wants to know, what other Apple products

01:35:26 ◼   ► could incorporate Qi charging?

01:35:29 ◼   ► Maybe the next Apple TV remote or the Magic Mouse?

01:35:31 ◼   ► So I agree with both of those.

01:35:33 ◼   ► They would work quite nicely.

01:35:35 ◼   ► But an Apple pencil enabled, like an Apple pencil wireless G charging would be fantastic.

01:35:43 ◼   ► I would love that. That would be really great.

01:35:45 ◼   ► The Apple pencil is the first one that came to mind for me, beyond the AirPods and the

01:35:49 ◼   ► Apple watch and the iPhone is, I mean, the iPad presumably will gain wireless charging

01:35:56 ◼   ► because why not? They've got the room. I think that'll happen. And, but the pencil, right,

01:36:01 ◼   ► charging it is so ungainly now that I think that that's a natural too and the

01:36:06 ◼   ► mouse the charging is really bad too because you got to flip it over so I

01:36:10 ◼   ► think those are those are two examples I assume somebody makes a Qi mouse pad

01:36:17 ◼   ► right yeah I was thinking about that and I came to is it's kind of at that point

01:36:24 ◼   ► you may as well just have a USB mouse but like sure if you want to have your

01:36:29 ◼   ► mousepad plugged into the wall or your computer and then your wireless mouse on top of it

01:36:33 ◼   ► then go for it. I'm sure there's a thing. Or you know you could just get one of those

01:36:38 ◼   ► IKEA things and like because IKEA, okay so IKEA have a vast selection of products already

01:36:46 ◼   ► available with Qi charging built into them but you can also just straight up buy a wireless

01:36:54 ◼   ► charging unit that you can bury into a desk. They just sell the little units or pads that

01:37:02 ◼   ► you can just screw a hole into, like a large hole into a desk and just drop one in. That's

01:37:07 ◼   ► where you can buy some of that stuff by the way if you are interested in playing around

01:37:10 ◼   ► with it. They make a selection of products already.

01:37:14 ◼   ► And the last question comes from Kian and Kian wants to know what are our thoughts on

01:37:18 ◼   ► the current state of the iPhone SE? Do we think that Apple will keep it around the 6s

01:37:24 ◼   ► revise it in the spring or kill it off? What do you think Jason?

01:37:27 ◼   ► um if I had to predict I would say the iPhone SE will get an update next spring

01:37:35 ◼   ► and it will be with iPhone 8 bits that's my guess that's my guess is that the same

01:37:45 ◼   ► uh well that's that's the question I think the easiest thing to do maybe it's iPhone 7 bits and

01:37:51 ◼   ► and not 8 bits, but like relatively recent iPhone,

01:37:54 ◼   ► because then they're gonna wanna keep it around

01:37:55 ◼   ► for a couple of years.

01:37:57 ◼   ► I think they may keep it the same.

01:37:58 ◼   ► It wouldn't shock me if they tried to do a new design,

01:38:01 ◼   ► but the easiest thing to do is just to keep that design.

01:38:03 ◼   ► And the fact is the new iPhone looks more like the SE

01:38:08 ◼   ► than the last iPhones did.

01:38:11 ◼   ► So in terms of metal band,

01:38:14 ◼   ► and so, yeah, I think it's most likely to look like a new

01:38:20 ◼   ► likely to look the same and I would not be surprised if there was an update in

01:38:24 ◼   ► the spring just to bring it up to modern standards and keep it alive because I

01:38:30 ◼   ► think they found that it's a successful part of the product mix down at the low

01:38:34 ◼   ► end and that there's an audience for people who want the small phone and so

01:38:38 ◼   ► why not. If you would like to send in your questions for the end of the show

01:38:43 ◼   ► where we talk about the we try and clarify things for you and answer your

01:38:47 ◼   ► questions about technology as much as we can just send in a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade

01:38:54 ◼   ► just tweet that into the ether or you can send it to us it doesn't matter either way

01:38:58 ◼   ► we get them all and also if you want to send in a question for me to ask Jason at the start

01:39:03 ◼   ► of the show #SnellTalk for that. I want to once again thank our three sponsors for this

01:39:08 ◼   ► week that is Squarespace, Balance and Incapsular. If you'd like to find Jason's work online

01:39:14 ◼   ► I'm going to give you a few places to go. Go to SixColors.com for Jason's work on writing

01:39:18 ◼   ► along with his help from the wonderful Dan Moran. Poor Dan. I know it's not how he said

01:39:26 ◼   ► that, but I like saying it that way. I know that his name is Dan Moran, but I feel like

01:39:31 ◼   ► Dan Moran is like his Hollywood name that I like to give him because he's a big time

01:39:37 ◼   ► published author now. So that's his stage name, Dan Moran.

01:39:41 ◼   ► By Dan's book, yeah.

01:39:42 ◼   ► Yep, you should go do that. The Caledonian Gambit is the name of Dan's book. If you are looking to

01:39:48 ◼   ► find it, you can do that. That is the Googleable information you will require. You could also go

01:39:54 ◼   ► to the incomparable.com for Jason's podcasts. And of course, Jason hosts a vast selection of

01:40:00 ◼   ► shows at relay.fm as well. You can go to find download and you can go find free agents and

01:40:07 ◼   ► and

01:40:29 ◼   ► on the internet.

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