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00:00:00 ◼   ► [

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by PDF Pen from Smile, Blue Apron, Encapsula, and Mac

00:00:18 ◼   ► Walden.

00:00:19 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Howdy, Jason Snell.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Howdy, Myke Hurley.

00:00:23 ◼   ► We're in a very busy time right now, I feel like.

00:00:26 ◼   ► There's so much stuff going on, we've got an action-packed show today, we already have

00:00:31 ◼   ► things for next week, it's a busy, busy time.

00:00:34 ◼   ► It is.

00:00:35 ◼   ► There is so much going on.

00:00:37 ◼   ► We could dive into the details of how we have to schedule these episodes.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Nobody cares about that, Jason!

00:00:44 ◼   ► Because it's time for #SnailTalk.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Today's question comes from David.

00:00:49 ◼   ► David says, "By now, we know Jason's favorite food, favorite beer, and favorite Star Trek.

00:00:53 ◼   ► What is his favorite board game?"

00:00:58 ◼   ► Childhood edition is probably Sorry, or as they say in Canada, Sorry.

00:01:03 ◼   ► And adult, probably Carcassonne, if that counts as a board game, it's sort of you have to

00:01:09 ◼   ► build the board, but I like that one.

00:01:11 ◼   ► It has a board, right?

00:01:13 ◼   ► Every time we do family game night, I want to play Carcassonne, and that's not allowed

00:01:16 ◼   ► because we have to play other games too, but yeah.

00:01:19 ◼   ► If you would like to submit a question to open the show, can be as obviously we have

00:01:24 ◼   ► gone over many times, basically about anything, just send a tweet out into the world with

00:01:29 ◼   ► the hashtag SnellTalk, it goes into a document, I will pick them up and maybe your question

00:01:35 ◼   ► will be asked on a future episode. Thanks to David for that question this week.

00:01:39 ◼   ► So should we do some follow up? Last week's show we spoke about battery cases a bunch.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Yes, we were wondering why, if induction charging exists and all you have to do is just touch

00:01:52 ◼   ► the phone to something, why were there no induction cases that we could find? We couldn't

00:01:58 ◼   ► find any for the iPhone. Apple isn't selling one even though they stopped selling the battery

00:02:02 ◼   ► case that they had. Where are all the induction cases? So a few people sent this in and a

00:02:09 ◼   ► guy called Myke was the first person to send it in, thank you Myke, to a Samsung page.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Samsung make a wireless charging battery pack for the Galaxy S7 and it just looks like a

00:02:20 ◼   ► thick phone case. So this is it, right? This is the thing that we were looking for. You

00:02:27 ◼   ► you just drop it in and you're ready to go. For some how, some reason that makes me raise

00:02:33 ◼   ► an eyebrow, this is currently $20, $70 off on Samsung.com. Maybe people aren't buying

00:02:42 ◼   ► it, I don't know, but that is, I think that is an interesting, I guess because it's the

00:02:46 ◼   ► S7, right? Everybody wants the S8 now. I guess that's what it is, right? Because it's an

00:02:51 ◼   ► old phone. So that would make sense.

00:02:55 ◼   ► sounds like there are physics, this may be an example of something that was created because

00:03:00 ◼   ► somebody thought this was a good idea but that there are physics issues. My understanding

00:03:04 ◼   ► is that the transfer is inefficient, you need to have an inverter in order for this to work

00:03:11 ◼   ► and as a result like you would waste, it would be bulky and you would waste a lot of the

00:03:17 ◼   ► batteries power in the transfer and so it's inefficient. And the fact that this is not

00:03:23 ◼   ► But a common thing suggests that there are lots of really good reasons.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Now Apple doing inductive charging suggests that perhaps we will see another few companies

00:03:33 ◼   ► try to get on this bandwagon even if the products are bad.

00:03:37 ◼   ► So that's something to watch for, right?

00:03:39 ◼   ► Like if there's an inductive charging case that comes out for the iPhone 8 or 10 and

00:03:43 ◼   ► we look at it and it's like, "This sounds too good to be true."

00:03:47 ◼   ► It may well be and that may be why there aren't so many of them.

00:03:50 ◼   ► It's too bad because it's a fun idea, but yeah.

00:03:53 ◼   ► I have some late breaking news as well.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Mophie, they have a product that is on their site right now, but is not ready to be released.

00:04:01 ◼   ► It's currently unavailable for the Samsung S8, which is a wireless charging case.

00:04:07 ◼   ► And this one looks fantastic.

00:04:09 ◼   ► I expect it is really tricky though, as you say.

00:04:12 ◼   ► So I'm interested to see how this goes.

00:04:16 ◼   ► This is like a brand new thing that they have.

00:04:18 ◼   ► So I'm intrigued to see how this ends up working out.

00:04:22 ◼   ► So they have a whole thing called charge force, it's like this thing that they're building.

00:04:27 ◼   ► But it looks like it's not as simple as you would expect.

00:04:30 ◼   ► There's this big pack that you have to put onto it.

00:04:33 ◼   ► It all looks a little bit complicated to be honest.

00:04:35 ◼   ► But it seems like something that is starting to become more and more of a thing, but it

00:04:39 ◼   ► doesn't seem like it is as easy as just putting a case on the phone.

00:04:46 ◼   ► There are some issues with it.

00:04:48 ◼   ► So I'll include a link to that in the show notes.

00:04:50 ◼   ► The Mophie one doesn't look as efficient as the Samsung one does, but for whatever reason

00:04:56 ◼   ► it doesn't look like Samsung have made one for the S8, so maybe it was just a tricky

00:05:00 ◼   ► product to make as you say.

00:05:05 ◼   ► I was in an Apple store like a week or two ago and I heard something really strange and

00:05:13 ◼   ► I don't know about this.

00:05:14 ◼   ► We're going to talk about the iPhone later on today, but I heard one of the Apple store

00:05:18 ◼   ► employees say that for the, um, for the wireless charging to work, you have to

00:05:25 ◼   ► have a specific case for it.

00:05:27 ◼   ► Like the old cases won't work is what they said.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Like the new cases for the iPhone 8, they've been designed so that the power

00:05:35 ◼   ► can pass through easily, but that the iPhone 7 cases won't work.

00:05:39 ◼   ► I don't know if that's the case, but I heard a store employee say that.

00:05:42 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:05:43 ◼   ► That's the case you say?

00:05:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:05:47 ◼   ► So I don't know, I don't know, I don't want to spread force facts here, but that was just

00:05:52 ◼   ► something that I heard.

00:05:53 ◼   ► And I wondered, is this one of those things that Apple Store employees say, but they don't

00:05:58 ◼   ► actually know?

00:05:59 ◼   ► Like, I wasn't sure, but I overheard a conversation.

00:06:01 ◼   ► The phone wasn't out at this point.

00:06:02 ◼   ► Well, it certainly could be an issue, right?

00:06:04 ◼   ► Could be an issue that there are either certain materials used in cases that prevent the transfer,

00:06:09 ◼   ► or you need to put certain materials in a case in order to facilitate the transfer.

00:06:13 ◼   ► And even then it may be that the case reduces the effectiveness or speed or something of

00:06:19 ◼   ► the charge.

00:06:20 ◼   ► I don't know anything about that, but it's possible.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Something we're all going to have to learn, I suppose.

00:06:25 ◼   ► So at the end of the show today, we're going to be doing Myke at the movies Terminator

00:06:29 ◼   ► 2.

00:06:30 ◼   ► That's going to be the end of the show, but we had something we wanted to include as follow

00:06:34 ◼   ► out right now because you put something together for the Blade Runner fans.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Yeah, there is a on the Myke at the movies feed on the incomparable, the incomparable.com/Myke.

00:06:43 ◼   ► you can get a new episode that is the Blade Runner Director's Cut. It is

00:06:50 ◼   ► basically our conversation with John Syracuse and it's preceded by two

00:06:55 ◼   ► minutes of new footage, exclusive new footage, that is essentially Myke and I

00:07:01 ◼   ► when we were done with the show and stopped recording, he stopped recording. I

00:07:04 ◼   ► kept recording and we talked about Blade Runner for like two minutes and I said

00:07:08 ◼   ► "Oh you should put that in the show" and he said "No, I already stopped recording."

00:07:12 ◼   ► But that's in there.

00:07:13 ◼   ► And I think that fulfills the dream of Blade Runner

00:07:16 ◼   ► as a thing that keeps getting revisited with new material.

00:07:20 ◼   ► So we did it ourselves, and that's in that feed.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And if you ever want to go back and listen to a Myke

00:07:25 ◼   ► at the Movies--

00:07:26 ◼   ► we do them time delayed a little bit,

00:07:28 ◼   ► but they all live there just the Myke

00:07:29 ◼   ► at the Movies parts of the various analog and upgrade

00:07:32 ◼   ► episodes where Myke talks about movies and occasionally TV

00:07:35 ◼   ► shows.

00:07:36 ◼   ► And there is the occasional standalone Myke

00:07:38 ◼   ► at the Movies episode that goes into that feed, which

00:07:41 ◼   ► We don't publish anywhere else.

00:07:43 ◼   ► So like if you look through there,

00:07:44 ◼   ► you'll see some additions that I've done in the past.

00:07:47 ◼   ► I have two more booked for this year.

00:07:50 ◼   ► So there are gonna be at least two more this year

00:07:53 ◼   ► of episodes that are only in that list.

00:07:56 ◼   ► So for example, My Cousin Vinny is in there,

00:08:00 ◼   ► which I spoke about with Tiff and Marco Arment.

00:08:03 ◼   ► So that was kind of last year sometimes.

00:08:05 ◼   ► So yeah, there are little things

00:08:06 ◼   ► that pop in every now and then.

00:08:07 ◼   ► And I have two of these with two special guests

00:08:11 ◼   ► coming before the end of the year. So you can go subscribe to that, the incomparable.com/mike.

00:08:15 ◼   ► If you enjoy that segment, there's more of it.

00:08:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, a little more. And I had one piece of follow out. Somebody emailed me and they

00:08:25 ◼   ► were very nice to do so about, and it's a listener, about this fellowship program that

00:08:30 ◼   ► I think we actually even maybe have mentioned on the show, which is the idea of getting

00:08:34 ◼   ► people who are savvy about technology to go to Washington, DC on a fellowship for a year

00:08:39 ◼   ► and try to get members of Congress up to speed on technology and so that we can have better

00:08:47 ◼   ► technology legislation and we can have representatives who understand the issues of technology. So

00:08:56 ◼   ► it's the Congressional Innovation Fellowship and this is the last week for applications

00:09:04 ◼   ► next year's fellowships. So I think it's pretty cool. We mentioned it because

00:09:11 ◼   ► security expert Chris Segoian, who is a former Apple AppleScript guy, Sal Segoian's

00:09:17 ◼   ► nephew actually, was one of the he was at the EFF or no he was at the ACLU and then

00:09:23 ◼   ► he went to this fellowship. So you might be upgrade listener you might be

00:09:29 ◼   ► somebody who could apply there's a there's a stipend for the year and you

00:09:33 ◼   ► spent a year in Washington DC educating the people in power in the United States about

00:09:42 ◼   ► technical issues because they need the help. And the whole idea here is to get them up

00:09:47 ◼   ► to speed because differences of opinion politically is one thing, but illiteracy essentially of

00:09:54 ◼   ► technical issues or simplifying to the point where our representatives are making decisions

00:09:59 ◼   ► that they shouldn't because they don't understand the issues involved. That is a problem. We

00:10:05 ◼   ► need to get them educated and that's one of the things that this program does. So applications

00:10:10 ◼   ► are open through the 28th and we'll put a link in the show notes for people to check

00:10:15 ◼   ► it out.

00:10:16 ◼   ► So on today's show we're going to talk about the iPhone 8 and the Apple Watch Series 3

00:10:22 ◼   ► of which we both have watches and you have an iPhone as well so we're going to talk about

00:10:26 ◼   ► those and give our kind of thoughts on those products. But as we record today

00:10:30 ◼   ► High Sierra, Mac OS High Sierra is being released. Is there anything, I mean I

00:10:36 ◼   ► didn't even really have this in my topic list at all Jason, because from what I

00:10:40 ◼   ► can gather there kind of isn't really much there. Yeah that's about it. It is

00:10:47 ◼   ► like Snow Leopard in the sense that it's Snow Leopard if you want to

00:10:54 ◼   ► cast your mind back to 2009, followed Leopard and Apple basically said, "Well, we're making

00:10:59 ◼   ► a lot of improvements under the hood, but there's not a lot for users." And that is

00:11:03 ◼   ► High Sierra. High Sierra, a lot of the stuff that they're doing is, it's like Metal 2,

00:11:07 ◼   ► new version of Swift, and VR support, but that's like the highest end currently shipping

00:11:15 ◼   ► iMacs, and the new iMac Pro and the Mac Pro will benefit from that when it arrives, whenever

00:11:20 ◼   ► that is and you know and you know new version of Swift is you know great for

00:11:24 ◼   ► compatibility reasons but it's not something you see new file system is not

00:11:28 ◼   ► something you generally see although we can actually have some it's a transition

00:11:31 ◼   ► that can have some impacts there's questions about how well documented is

00:11:34 ◼   ► for third parties who are dealing with it and you don't have a choice if you're

00:11:38 ◼   ► running flash storage only internally on your Mac it'll get updated to the new

00:11:44 ◼   ► file system

00:11:45 ◼   ► There's improvements to photos. A lot of it is just compatibility improvements. They make changes on iOS and they want to bring those across.

00:11:53 ◼   ► But there are very few direct user-facing features in High Sierra to the point where I feel like the smartest thing for most people to do is probably to wait and see.

00:12:05 ◼   ► And make sure that everything kind of shakes out and there aren't security issues and there aren't disk utility issues.

00:12:12 ◼   ► and you know eventually we live in a world where eventually you're going to

00:12:16 ◼   ► have to update because there'll be a critical security issue that doesn't get

00:12:19 ◼   ► shipped to Sierra but gets shipped to High Sierra and if you're upgrading a

00:12:24 ◼   ► relatively recent phone to iOS 11 you're going to need to and you sync with

00:12:29 ◼   ► photos and iCloud photo library you're going to need to turn off the new file

00:12:34 ◼   ► formats the HEVC and heif if you want to see those files on your Mac because

00:12:39 ◼   ► Apple has chosen to not make Sierra compatible with those formats that's

00:12:43 ◼   ► high Sierra yeah I haven't turned on the heath yeah or HEVC because I don't plan

00:12:49 ◼   ► on upgrading my Mac for a little bit so I've left those off on my on my current

00:12:54 ◼   ► iPhone 7 plus yeah so it's one of the you know I guess I would say it is the

00:13:00 ◼   ► least compelling update to the Mac OS in those eight years probably it's not a

00:13:08 ◼   ► a must update. You will need to go eventually for compatibility reasons, but there's nobody

00:13:14 ◼   ► pushing you to do it today. And so waiting and seeing might, given all the under the

00:13:19 ◼   ► hood stuff that's changing and that there's not a lot of direct user benefit on the top,

00:13:24 ◼   ► that may be the best thing to do is just wait for a while. And so I'd say this is one of

00:13:28 ◼   ► the least compelling updates in the near term for users. I think it'll pay off. A lot of

00:13:35 ◼   ► this stuff is going to pay off over time to the platform and to features that will come

00:13:39 ◼   ► in the future. But as I, you know, I once said to a developer who released a paid upgrade

00:13:45 ◼   ► to their product that had almost no new features because they spent the last year and a half

00:13:50 ◼   ► building all of these incredibly necessary things under the hood to keep the product

00:13:53 ◼   ► running and for the future of the product, you know, what I said was, I, you know, how

00:13:59 ◼   ► do I recommend that people pay for nothing? That's that you know and I know

00:14:05 ◼   ► it's not really nothing there's stuff happening underneath but if you're a

00:14:08 ◼   ► user the changes Apple's making now for next year like that's a very inside

00:14:17 ◼   ► baseball Apple thing of Apple changing this stuff for the user there's no

00:14:22 ◼   ► direct benefit so why so just don't go unless you do see a direct benefit for

00:14:27 ◼   ► something like wanting the HEAF and HEVC stuff to work on iCloud photo library

00:14:34 ◼   ► directly but there are very limited use cases. I think people who are

00:14:40 ◼   ► really heavy users of Photos, Photos is the app that changes the most in High

00:14:44 ◼   ► Sierra because it's a very young app and it has a lot of changes. I'm unclear, I

00:14:50 ◼   ► need to check, there are a bunch of Safari changes but Safari 11 which is

00:14:56 ◼   ► the new version, Apple always makes the latest version

00:14:58 ◼   ► of Safari available for the two previous OS releases.

00:15:01 ◼   ► So you can install Safari 11 on Sierra and on--

00:15:06 ◼   ► - It's currently available for Sierra,

00:15:08 ◼   ► like you can get it right now.

00:15:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, you can get it on Sierra and also El Capitan.

00:15:12 ◼   ► Even if you're two versions back, you can get it.

00:15:14 ◼   ► And I think it's got like the video autoplay blocking

00:15:16 ◼   ► and all that stuff in it.

00:15:17 ◼   ► So you don't, if the new Safari is what you want,

00:15:20 ◼   ► you can just download it.

00:15:21 ◼   ► You don't need to update to High Sierra to get that.

00:15:23 ◼   ► So again, yeah, so that's my short version of High Sierra.

00:15:28 ◼   ► Maybe we'll talk about it later, some other week,

00:15:30 ◼   ► but I don't know, maybe not,

00:15:31 ◼   ► because there's not a whole lot there.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Honestly, it's about the future and that's great.

00:15:36 ◼   ► And it's about compatibility and that's fine,

00:15:38 ◼   ► but it doesn't make it one of those things

00:15:40 ◼   ► where the day it comes out,

00:15:41 ◼   ► everybody's gonna get some great thing,

00:15:43 ◼   ► you know, at their fingertips immediately,

00:15:46 ◼   ► 'cause that's not what this update is.

00:15:48 ◼   ► - Okay, Jason, let me take our first break

00:15:50 ◼   ► of this week's episode,

00:15:51 ◼   ► and then we'll move on talking about new hardware.

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00:17:48 ◼   ► So you have the iPhone, iPhone 8?

00:17:55 ◼   ► - I do, I have iPhone 8 Plus and iPhone 8 here.

00:18:00 ◼   ► - Okay, so did you go to your local Apple store?

00:18:04 ◼   ► Where did you get these things from?

00:18:06 ◼   ► - No, these are review.

00:18:07 ◼   ► These are review units from Apple.

00:18:09 ◼   ► - So you took another trip to the spaceship?

00:18:12 ◼   ► - I did, I took another trip to the,

00:18:14 ◼   ► I got my briefing in the Apple Store.

00:18:19 ◼   ► - Oh, oh, interesting.

00:18:22 ◼   ► I guess they have like what is being called

00:18:24 ◼   ► the boardroom type thing, like a room in the Apple Store.

00:18:27 ◼   ► No, okay.

00:18:28 ◼   ► - This was literally, I'm told that there are briefing rooms

00:18:33 ◼   ► at the Steve Jobs Theater, although it's unclear

00:18:35 ◼   ► like what other briefing areas they will have.

00:18:40 ◼   ► But for this, since the Apple Store isn't open,

00:18:42 ◼   ► I was literally just in the Apple store.

00:18:45 ◼   ► They gave me an Apple Watch briefing

00:18:46 ◼   ► at the Apple Watch table in the Apple store

00:18:48 ◼   ► and then they gave me an iPhone briefing

00:18:50 ◼   ► at the iPhone table at the Apple store.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I know, right?

00:18:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I guess it makes sense

00:18:53 ◼   ► 'cause I'm thinking obviously the store isn't open

00:18:55 ◼   ► so it's actually probably a really good environment

00:18:58 ◼   ► 'cause they probably had all the stuff there, right,

00:18:59 ◼   ► ready for it to be good to go.

00:19:01 ◼   ► So that's actually a pretty cool environment

00:19:03 ◼   ► to have a briefing in and amongst the store and the products

00:19:06 ◼   ► the town hall, town center, town hall,

00:19:09 ◼   ► was it town center or town hall?

00:19:10 ◼   ► I forgot, whatever one it is.

00:19:12 ◼   ► That's where you were to get your briefing,

00:19:15 ◼   ► to get your products.

00:19:16 ◼   ► - I'm not sure it was either of those things,

00:19:18 ◼   ► but it was, yeah, it was just their briefing center

00:19:20 ◼   ► is where it used to be.

00:19:21 ◼   ► They have a briefing center.

00:19:23 ◼   ► - So what devices exactly do you have?

00:19:26 ◼   ► What colors are they?

00:19:27 ◼   ► - These are white fronts,

00:19:33 ◼   ► and it's a silver and a gold.

00:19:37 ◼   ► - You have the gold, okay.

00:19:40 ◼   ► - Again, as always, it's really difficult

00:19:42 ◼   ► to ask you these types of questions,

00:19:43 ◼   ► but do you have any opinion on the gold color?

00:19:46 ◼   ► - No.

00:19:47 ◼   ► - No, okay.

00:19:48 ◼   ► - I mean, I can tell you, the problem is,

00:19:52 ◼   ► is that the gold and rose gold kind of gradation

00:19:56 ◼   ► involves a light amounts of red hue that I can't see.

00:19:59 ◼   ► - Which you can't see, that's such a shame.

00:20:01 ◼   ► - So what I would say is, what I've been told,

00:20:04 ◼   ► and it seems right, is that there is a,

00:20:08 ◼   ► Well, you know, I can see some differences,

00:20:10 ◼   ► but it's not, it's a level, it seems so subtle to me,

00:20:13 ◼   ► and I know it isn't subtle to other people,

00:20:15 ◼   ► but what I would say is the new gold is neither

00:20:18 ◼   ► the old gold or the old rose gold,

00:20:20 ◼   ► but somewhere in between. - Yeah, somewhere in between.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Yeah, 'cause the thing that interests me about that,

00:20:24 ◼   ► from all the pictures that I've seen

00:20:25 ◼   ► and all the videos I've seen and stuff like that,

00:20:28 ◼   ► is the back of it.

00:20:29 ◼   ► Like, the back of it is this interesting, like, muted color.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Like, it's not white, it's not silver,

00:20:36 ◼   ► and it's not necessarily the same color as the band that goes around the outside.

00:20:41 ◼   ► It looks different and I think it looks kind of attractive.

00:20:44 ◼   ► I think I really like the way that that looks with the glass and the slight color that they've

00:20:49 ◼   ► got on the back of it.

00:20:50 ◼   ► So I think that's really cool.

00:20:52 ◼   ► But yeah, I'll have to go to a store and look at it myself because I understand that you

00:20:57 ◼   ► can't provide me with the description that I require right now.

00:21:00 ◼   ► - It is fair to say that the back is not white.

00:21:05 ◼   ► Like there is a color cast to it.

00:21:08 ◼   ► It is a much warmer back than the silver white back, right?

00:21:12 ◼   ► The silver white back is more bluey

00:21:15 ◼   ► and there's definitely more of a, it's more of a,

00:21:18 ◼   ► I mean, it's not blue,

00:21:19 ◼   ► but it's like, it feels like a white white or a blue white.

00:21:22 ◼   ► And the other one feels like a really warm white

00:21:25 ◼   ► or you could say it's sort of like taupe or tan or something.

00:21:27 ◼   ► There's definitely, it's picking up,

00:21:30 ◼   ► you know, it's meant to complement the gold

00:21:33 ◼   ► around the frame of it.

00:21:35 ◼   ► So it's not one white for all, it is a different kind.

00:21:40 ◼   ► - Do you have any accessories?

00:21:43 ◼   ► - I do, I have the, I have a charger and I have some cases.

00:21:50 ◼   ► - When you say a charger, do you mean a wireless charger?

00:21:54 ◼   ► - Yes, I do.

00:21:55 ◼   ► - Cool, we'll talk about that in a minute then.

00:21:57 ◼   ► going back to the look and feel of the device,

00:22:00 ◼   ► how does it feel to have a glass back back on the iPhone?

00:22:03 ◼   ► How does that feel?

00:22:04 ◼   ► - It doesn't feel that different to me,

00:22:05 ◼   ► but that's because I used the iPhone 7

00:22:07 ◼   ► with the jet black covering.

00:22:09 ◼   ► - That's good to hear though.

00:22:10 ◼   ► - The jet black coating is basically the same.

00:22:14 ◼   ► The jet black coating is,

00:22:16 ◼   ► it's got the same feel to me as the glass back.

00:22:20 ◼   ► I feel like that was a preview of at least tactilely

00:22:23 ◼   ► what the 8 feels like.

00:22:24 ◼   ► So if you heard people talk about,

00:22:26 ◼   ► "Oh, you know, there's gonna be,

00:22:29 ◼   ► I can take my case off."

00:22:32 ◼   ► 'Cause that was the case for me,

00:22:33 ◼   ► is I used a case on the 6 and the 6S,

00:22:35 ◼   ► and I stopped with the 7

00:22:36 ◼   ► because I got the jet black finish.

00:22:38 ◼   ► The glass is unlikely to get micro abrasions,

00:22:40 ◼   ► like the jet black, although I never,

00:22:42 ◼   ► the micro abrasions on the jet black

00:22:44 ◼   ► did not bother me one bit,

00:22:45 ◼   ► but it's less likely to happen on the glass back.

00:22:49 ◼   ► But yeah, it's that feel.

00:22:52 ◼   ► it feels very much like that phone's feel.

00:22:57 ◼   ► It was so, it was very familiar to me.

00:23:00 ◼   ► I guess if you're coming from a more,

00:23:02 ◼   ► a traditional anodized iPhone 6 or 7,

00:23:06 ◼   ► you're going to notice that.

00:23:08 ◼   ► And it's hard to describe it, but it is,

00:23:10 ◼   ► it's like the equivalent of,

00:23:12 ◼   ► if you put your finger on a piece of glass and you pull,

00:23:15 ◼   ► and you can feel that the glass is kind of pulling back

00:23:17 ◼   ► at your fingertip and it makes, it impedes your movement.

00:23:21 ◼   ► That's what it feels like.

00:23:22 ◼   ► It's, and it's the same, apparently it's the same glass,

00:23:25 ◼   ► it's the same oleophobic coating on both sides.

00:23:28 ◼   ► Like they're, you know, it is a two-sided glass thing,

00:23:30 ◼   ► but in practice it feels very much like the jet black.

00:23:33 ◼   ► It's definitely more tacky.

00:23:36 ◼   ► I mean, not like sticky, but like it is easier to grip it

00:23:39 ◼   ► because it's exerting some force on your hand, on your skin.

00:23:44 ◼   ► - Okay, okay, that's good to hear.

00:23:46 ◼   ► I mean, that's kind of what I was hoping because,

00:23:49 ◼   ► I mean I've been very much in the case club for a while, like I've had cases on my phones

00:23:54 ◼   ► since, I mean I mostly always have, but especially since the 6 design because it was pretty slippery.

00:24:01 ◼   ► But I would ideally not, you know, I think I would actually prefer to not have a case

00:24:07 ◼   ► on my phone and I'm hoping that for the 10, the glass back and all that is going to feel

00:24:13 ◼   ► really good because as well, that phone looks so good I kind of don't want to put a case

00:24:17 ◼   ► on it. So maybe the glass will be enough. I'm willing to try it out but I do know and

00:24:23 ◼   ► I have seen many reports that to replace the backs on these is actually pretty expensive

00:24:29 ◼   ► because all of the induction stuff is built into the glass on the back so if you do break

00:24:35 ◼   ► it it's actually pretty expensive to get that replaced. More expensive than it has been

00:24:39 ◼   ► to even get screens replaced in the past so that's something to bear in mind I think.

00:24:45 ◼   ► So having had these phones for a few days now, Jason, what do you think about the design?

00:24:55 ◼   ► I mean, it's an iPhone. I hate to be so blase about it, but it's an iPhone. They call it

00:25:04 ◼   ► 8, but you know, 6, 7, 8, it is all of a kind. I think the backs obviously are different

00:25:14 ◼   ► because they've got the glass back,

00:25:16 ◼   ► which also enables the wireless charging.

00:25:18 ◼   ► I think the anodized aluminum around the edges

00:25:20 ◼   ► is really nice.

00:25:21 ◼   ► I think they look great.

00:25:23 ◼   ► As somebody who used that jet black iPhone before,

00:25:25 ◼   ► it's like, yeah, this is good.

00:25:27 ◼   ► This is the kind of look and feel that I like.

00:25:30 ◼   ► I would choose the black again

00:25:32 ◼   ► because that's my personal preference.

00:25:33 ◼   ► And I know that people are sad who are fans of the rose gold,

00:25:37 ◼   ► although the gold may satisfy them.

00:25:39 ◼   ► But it is recognizably

00:25:42 ◼   ► an iPhone in the design style that we've had for a few years now.

00:25:48 ◼   ► You could tell at a glance if somebody's using an 8 if they don't have a case on it, right?

00:25:54 ◼   ► Because that back is so different. It's distinctive.

00:25:57 ◼   ► It is still a flat surface, like the old flat surface, and the shape of it and all is the same.

00:26:03 ◼   ► What about the display? Have you noticed anything in there? I mean, it has True Tone in it now.

00:26:08 ◼   ► how does this iPhone's display compare?

00:26:12 ◼   ► - Looks good, looks really good.

00:26:14 ◼   ► I was looking at both models.

00:26:17 ◼   ► I haven't done any like head to head.

00:26:20 ◼   ► It's very much like my thoughts about the seven

00:26:22 ◼   ► and then switching over to the eight and using it.

00:26:25 ◼   ► But it looks good.

00:26:27 ◼   ► The True Tone is really nice to have.

00:26:28 ◼   ► I would argue the way that I use my phone,

00:26:31 ◼   ► I'm less likely to be using my phone

00:26:34 ◼   ► when I'm inside at home,

00:26:35 ◼   ► which is when the lighting is pretty different.

00:26:37 ◼   ► and I haven't been out to a restaurant or something,

00:26:40 ◼   ► so I feel like True Tone on the iPad first

00:26:42 ◼   ► was the right thing to do,

00:26:44 ◼   ► because I think the iPad is in that context

00:26:46 ◼   ► of shifting light, indoor light especially.

00:26:49 ◼   ► - And it's also probably more of a long-form reading device,

00:26:53 ◼   ► which True Tone really lends itself to, right?

00:26:55 ◼   ► Like, there are a lot of reasons

00:26:56 ◼   ► that you would put that technology in an iPad first, I think.

00:26:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I think they made the right call there,

00:27:03 ◼   ► but it's nice to see it,

00:27:05 ◼   ► because it is a nice feature for most people.

00:27:10 ◼   ► The idea that your white point,

00:27:14 ◼   ► end result is that a lot of light indoors is warmer

00:27:19 ◼   ► than white points on devices are

00:27:23 ◼   ► and that makes the device seem really harsh

00:27:25 ◼   ► and blue and glarey.

00:27:28 ◼   ► And you don't really think about it,

00:27:29 ◼   ► it's just like how the screen is

00:27:31 ◼   ► until it is compensating for it, which is what it does.

00:27:35 ◼   ► and then it looks a lot nicer.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Although I'll point out, I mean,

00:27:38 ◼   ► if you've got the white ring around it,

00:27:40 ◼   ► that ideally those work in tandem, right?

00:27:43 ◼   ► Because the light is also bouncing off of the white

00:27:46 ◼   ► of the frame on the front of the camera

00:27:48 ◼   ► or on the front of the device.

00:27:49 ◼   ► And so, what you want is white to be white

00:27:53 ◼   ► and not have it be like, well, this looks,

00:27:56 ◼   ► this is yellow and this is blue and why are they mismatched?

00:27:59 ◼   ► So that's the goal.

00:28:00 ◼   ► And it's a good goal to have.

00:28:02 ◼   ► I like it.

00:28:04 ◼   ► It's not one of these earth-shattering features.

00:28:05 ◼   ► I would not get a new device just for True Tone,

00:28:08 ◼   ► but it's nice.

00:28:10 ◼   ► And that's, it's a very Apple feature in that way,

00:28:12 ◼   ► which is just sort of like, yeah,

00:28:13 ◼   ► if you're in a room with warm lighting,

00:28:15 ◼   ► shouldn't the iPhone's lighting be warm too?

00:28:17 ◼   ► And it should, it's true.

00:28:19 ◼   ► That's the right call most of the time.

00:28:20 ◼   ► And you can turn it off if you don't like it.

00:28:22 ◼   ► - So these phones feature the A11 Bionic chip.

00:28:26 ◼   ► In some of the reviews and stuff that came out

00:28:27 ◼   ► in the last week or so,

00:28:29 ◼   ► it's been interesting to see that like Apple have admitted

00:28:32 ◼   ► to the fact that they're giving them these names purely for marketing purposes now like

00:28:36 ◼   ► the Fusion and the Bionic because just A and a number doesn't sound good so they're giving

00:28:42 ◼   ► them names like how you have like Snapdragon or whatever which I'm fine with like it doesn't

00:28:47 ◼   ► make a difference but like having a name to it is more evocative from a branding perspective.

00:28:53 ◼   ► Now this phone is monstrously fast like these early 11 Bionic chips they are monsters right

00:29:00 ◼   ► like it's it's unbelievable you know there are reports of them being faster

00:29:05 ◼   ► is it single core or multi core than the current shipping 13-inch MacBook Pro of

00:29:10 ◼   ► Geekbench scores like just really really powerful stuff you've got it you've got

00:29:16 ◼   ► a phone that's as powerful as a as a good not not cheap good laptop and that

00:29:22 ◼   ► is that's where we are I think the always the question is what do you do

00:29:26 ◼   ► with it? And the answer right now seems to be things like games and AR and all of those

00:29:31 ◼   ► things right? And that's good and it gives room for developers to throw more processing

00:29:38 ◼   ► power at things. Obviously the Bionic chip is also powering specific phone features on

00:29:46 ◼   ► the 8 and the 10 that are doing things like the machine learning and face recognition

00:29:52 ◼   ► and things like that in the 10.

00:29:53 ◼   ► So there's other parts of it,

00:29:55 ◼   ► but just like the raw processing power

00:29:56 ◼   ► that's available to apps,

00:29:58 ◼   ► because you've got the six cores

00:30:02 ◼   ► that are accessible simultaneously if need be,

00:30:05 ◼   ► instead of the two switchable cores

00:30:07 ◼   ► on the Fusion in the last generation,

00:30:10 ◼   ► that if it needs to crank things up

00:30:12 ◼   ► and bring all the power possible to bear, it can do it.

00:30:15 ◼   ► And it can function like a powerful laptop at that point.

00:30:20 ◼   ► I think there's an argument about whether people

00:30:23 ◼   ► are actually using that power.

00:30:24 ◼   ► I'm sure Apple is, and I'm sure game makers will do it.

00:30:27 ◼   ► And the Apple design GPU is part of this too.

00:30:31 ◼   ► But I feel like we may have reached the point

00:30:35 ◼   ► with smartphones where for general purpose performance,

00:30:38 ◼   ► it kind of doesn't matter.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Like they're fast, they're gonna be fast for a long time.

00:30:43 ◼   ► They're fast enough for most things.

00:30:46 ◼   ► And it's the specific purpose.

00:30:47 ◼   ► And you see this in Apple making their specific things

00:30:51 ◼   ► that are built into the CPU for specific features,

00:30:55 ◼   ► that's more of what it's about now

00:30:58 ◼   ► is signal processing for video and stills,

00:31:02 ◼   ► and it's machine learning stuff.

00:31:05 ◼   ► It's like, and the GPU and things for AR

00:31:08 ◼   ► and all of the like purpose built stuff,

00:31:10 ◼   ► rather than having it just be general purpose performance,

00:31:13 ◼   ► 'cause it's great on general purpose performance.

00:31:15 ◼   ► like how I'm not sure, I mean, again, never say never,

00:31:19 ◼   ► over time on an infinite timescale, right?

00:31:22 ◼   ► You always want a faster device,

00:31:24 ◼   ► but it seems like Apple is already shifting

00:31:28 ◼   ► to having lots of things that are, you know,

00:31:30 ◼   ► purpose built things in the Silicon

00:31:32 ◼   ► that let them do very specific things a lot faster

00:31:35 ◼   ► and enabling those features that they need

00:31:37 ◼   ► because they can afford to do that

00:31:39 ◼   ► because the base general processing power

00:31:42 ◼   ► that's available is so strong that, you know,

00:31:47 ◼   ► they don't, you know,

00:31:49 ◼   ► they don't need a hundred percent speed boost next time.

00:31:52 ◼   ► Right?

00:31:53 ◼   ► They don't, they really don't.

00:31:55 ◼   ► They probably need speed boosts in specific areas instead.

00:31:58 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:31:59 ◼   ► It's just, it just struck me as funny that, yeah,

00:32:01 ◼   ► it's fast as a MacBook Pro, but what does that get you?

00:32:04 ◼   ► It very rarely is an iPhone being used to do things

00:32:08 ◼   ► that a MacBook Pro is doing when it's stressing itself out.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Like very rarely is it in coding video or things like that.

00:32:16 ◼   ► It is doing some super stressful things for AR, for example.

00:32:19 ◼   ► And that's sort of what, you know, it's been built for.

00:32:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've noticed playing with some AR apps

00:32:27 ◼   ► on my current iPhone, that it gets hot

00:32:30 ◼   ► and it really affects the battery.

00:32:31 ◼   ► And there are points where like it's struggling

00:32:34 ◼   ► to do things.

00:32:35 ◼   ► And I'm assuming that all of this stuff is better

00:32:38 ◼   ► on the newer hardware, which is more purpose-built

00:32:41 ◼   ► for these types of things, has better chips in them.

00:32:43 ◼   ► Like I'm imagining that whilst the experience is great

00:32:47 ◼   ► on the current models, it's even better on the next ones.

00:32:50 ◼   ► And I guess part of that is also in the cameras as well,

00:32:55 ◼   ► because there are things in the cameras

00:32:57 ◼   ► which are being used to take advantage of this stuff.

00:32:59 ◼   ► I wondered if you've noticed anything about the cameras

00:33:02 ◼   ► and if you've been able to play around

00:33:04 ◼   ► with the new portrait mode stuff,

00:33:06 ◼   ► and what your opinions are of these features.

00:33:08 ◼   ► - Little bit still early.

00:33:10 ◼   ► portrait mode stuff is is interesting I mean it benefits from it benefits from

00:33:16 ◼   ► the right lighting I mean that's the irony of it is it benefits from the

00:33:19 ◼   ► right lining because there is only so much that the algorithm can do

00:33:23 ◼   ► especially for the the spotlight right you need to for it to be at its best it

00:33:29 ◼   ► needs to be well lit in a certain way and then it can do its magic but but

00:33:34 ◼   ► it's fun to play with. The-- I think the radial UI for the different portrait modes is really

00:33:43 ◼   ► weird especially since the regular camera interface has the swipe to move between modes.

00:33:51 ◼   ► So you swipe to move between still and video and portrait and then you tap on the little

00:33:55 ◼   ► cube and now you're doing this kind of like it's like moving radially instead. It's like

00:34:01 ◼   ► I'm not sure what the it just seems weird to me I'm not I'm not maybe I just

00:34:06 ◼   ► need to get used to the interface but it seems a little bit strange but the the

00:34:09 ◼   ► the portrait mode stuff is interesting again I think when reality hits what

00:34:16 ◼   ► Apple's doing in its promos you'll find that you want a good shot and then a

00:34:22 ◼   ► good shot of a good subject then that stuff can really enhance it but you need

00:34:26 ◼   ► to you still need to do that you can't just like pull out your phone and take a

00:34:30 ◼   ► picture you know in a moment in bad lighting and have it become a magically

00:34:35 ◼   ► beautiful it's not it's not that it still needs to be composed and you still

00:34:40 ◼   ► need decent lighting I haven't tested low light performance yet I I shot some

00:34:46 ◼   ► video in 4k 60 frames per second that was amazing I watched on my 4k TV it

00:34:51 ◼   ► looked great the video quality is great you know it's a it's a it's a good camera

00:34:57 ◼   ► Apple's always pushing forward with cameras and this is another step forward.

00:35:01 ◼   ► I mean, I hate to say it, but so many of the stories of new iPhones is Apple

00:35:06 ◼   ► pushed everything forward another step. And if you're only one step behind, is it

00:35:10 ◼   ► a must-buy?

00:35:11 ◼   ► Probably not, but if you're two steps or three steps behind, then you get all of

00:35:15 ◼   ► the steps last year and all the steps this year combined and that's better.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Like, my wife is on a six and she's going to get an eight and that's going to be

00:35:24 ◼   ► great, right? Because she's going to get all the success and seven and eight

00:35:27 ◼   ► improvements all rolled into one and that's a that's a massive upgrade. That's

00:35:31 ◼   ► amazing. And that's I think those are more common than people going from the

00:35:36 ◼   ► seven to the eight where everything is you know the increments it's just you

00:35:40 ◼   ► know everything's better but rarely is it one of those moments of like oh my

00:35:45 ◼   ► god I can't believe how much better this is because it's more just Apple just

00:35:49 ◼   ► keeps pushing the ball forward and relentlessly every year.

00:35:52 ◼   ► Matt Pansarino at TechCrunch had a really good review of the phone where he focused on it being a camera primarily.

00:35:59 ◼   ► And I put this in the show notes because there's one feature that I'm really really impressed with and looking forward to, which is the performance of the flash.

00:36:07 ◼   ► So there is a new type of flash technology.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it's slow sync flash, which I always have loved on point and shoots before.

00:36:18 ◼   ► and the idea there is it's a great feature in certain circumstances it

00:36:26 ◼   ► really makes your photos better and Apple hadn't done it hasn't done it

00:36:29 ◼   ► before and the idea there is you flash the flash but you leave the shutter open

00:36:34 ◼   ► longer outside of the flash and it basically lets you increase the dynamic

00:36:40 ◼   ► range of your shot because if you just open the shutter when the flash is

00:36:45 ◼   ► illuminating, you're going to get that bright foreground, that person in the

00:36:49 ◼   ► foreground who's been flashed. And because that's a small shutter time,

00:36:56 ◼   ► you're going to get them and they're going to be clear, but the background,

00:37:01 ◼   ► because the background is dark and the shutter was not open very long and

00:37:05 ◼   ► the flash didn't illuminate the background very well, they drop out.

00:37:10 ◼   ► And everybody's seen these photos where it's a flash photo and it's

00:37:13 ◼   ► like somebody's in space or you can't see very much behind them but

00:37:17 ◼   ► they're in relief. The slow shutter keeps the shutter open so the

00:37:23 ◼   ► flash goes but it also is collecting light for longer behind, you know, around

00:37:28 ◼   ► that person. The darker stuff is more visible and it can make for great like

00:37:33 ◼   ► like if you're taking a picture of somebody at sunset and the sun's going down it's

00:37:37 ◼   ► pretty dark behind them but the sunset is there and it's spectacular.

00:37:41 ◼   ► spectacular. If you take a flash photo of them standing in front of the sunset, you

00:37:45 ◼   ► get them and no sunset, right? But with the slow shutter, you get them and the sunset

00:37:50 ◼   ► because you get the light collected off of them from the flash, but then the shutter

00:37:54 ◼   ► stays open and collects more light from the scene behind them. And sometimes it looks

00:37:59 ◼   ► a little weird, depends on the timing, and I think Apple's probably doing a lot of very

00:38:03 ◼   ► clever algorithms to try to make this work better. But I've taken some amazing slow shutter

00:38:09 ◼   ► shots with my point-and-shoot over the years in those, you know, vacation situations and

00:38:15 ◼   ► things like that where you've got a beautiful background but you've got to light the foreground.

00:38:18 ◼   ► So yeah, Panserina's article is great because it's basically a review of the iPhone 8 as

00:38:22 ◼   ► a camera first, which I think is a, I think it's smart, I think, because the truth of

00:38:28 ◼   ► it is one of the most important functions any smartphone has is as a camera.

00:38:33 ◼   ► I also noted from reading stuff around that the iPhone 8 line and I guess the 10 will

00:38:40 ◼   ► be the same.

00:38:41 ◼   ► By default HDR is on and always on and it doesn't save the other image in your camera

00:38:47 ◼   ► anymore and you can make these changes if you want to.

00:38:52 ◼   ► But yeah, and also you can switch this all on in iOS 11 on your current devices but Apple

00:38:57 ◼   ► believes that they've done a good enough job with HDR now that it will produce a better

00:39:01 ◼   ► picture basically every time. Yeah, Apple is confident that their HDR mode is

00:39:07 ◼   ► going to get you the best picture so they don't even bother to save the other

00:39:11 ◼   ► version and this has to do, you know, the way the HDR mode works is it's

00:39:15 ◼   ► bracketing two shots. It's taking a shot that's capturing the dark stuff and

00:39:19 ◼   ► it's taking a shot that's capturing the bright stuff and then it is using

00:39:22 ◼   ► algorithms to merge them together into a single photo that has a wider range

00:39:27 ◼   ► that's what dynamic range is between the bright and the dark and they've been

00:39:30 ◼   ► doing this for a long time and it started out and it worked sometimes and then it worked

00:39:35 ◼   ► better and it's worked better over time and of course the more data they can collect faster,

00:39:41 ◼   ► the less risk you have of the HDR shot being weird because in the gap between shot one

00:39:48 ◼   ► and shot two people moved and stuff like the faster you make that the easier it is for

00:39:53 ◼   ► this all to get put back together again and they're obviously yeah they're confident enough

00:39:57 ◼   ► about this now, and they want to save space and not have you taking two of everything.

00:40:02 ◼   ► They think the HDR picture is good enough that by default it just saves you an HDR picture,

00:40:07 ◼   ► and that's all you get.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Have you had any time to test out wireless charging in any detail? Like, what are your

00:40:14 ◼   ► opinions of wireless charging?

00:40:18 ◼   ► It's funny because it's going to be, for people who have been using wireless charging on Android,

00:40:22 ◼   ► it's going to be like opinions from five years ago or something like that. And I'm sure that

00:40:26 ◼   ► there'll be a new brand, a new set of chargers that are made for, specifically for Apple

00:40:33 ◼   ► because the stuff that's out there now is obviously like, "Hey, we've got a Qi charger,

00:40:39 ◼   ► let's use it." I think that's what the two that are out there now. Maybe there'll be

00:40:42 ◼   ► a new, things designed more to fit in with like the look and feel of Apple's stuff. I

00:40:48 ◼   ► don't know. Everybody's going to take advantage of the fact that Apple's doing this now. So

00:40:51 ◼   ► there'll be new accessories.

00:40:52 ◼   ► - Which is great. It's great for everyone.

00:40:55 ◼   ► fine. I'd say it's nice. You've got to-- I think there are specific use

00:41:02 ◼   ► cases where you think I'd much rather lay this thing down on the circle than to

00:41:07 ◼   ► plug in the cable that's right next to it. You know, the circle still needs--

00:41:12 ◼   ► still has a wire and that wire still needs to be plugged in somewhere and it

00:41:15 ◼   ► doesn't come with like a USB plug, it comes with a power plug. So if you've got

00:41:18 ◼   ► a USB outlet like I do, that's not going to work. You need to plug it into an

00:41:22 ◼   ► outlet and then you've got a cable so like my area that has cables coming from

00:41:26 ◼   ► the USB plugs on in my wall to where you can plug them in for the phone now

00:41:32 ◼   ► there's also a cable running across there from power plug to this little pad

00:41:37 ◼   ► which needs to stay visible so that I can put my phone onto it so it's not a

00:41:41 ◼   ► it's not a miracle it is still just you know it's an it's a different wire in a

00:41:47 ◼   ► different place but you have to plug in the wire you still also have to plug

00:41:50 ◼   ► your phone, you have to land your phone properly on the circle. A little

00:41:55 ◼   ► light goes on on the charger saying that it's charging as well as some

00:41:59 ◼   ► interface change on the screen when it says it's charging. It's really easy to

00:42:03 ◼   ► not lay it down properly and not charge it. I did that more than once. I think

00:42:09 ◼   ► it's easy for somebody else to jostle things and have it like come off of the

00:42:14 ◼   ► charger and then it's not charging. So you know, I think wireless

00:42:19 ◼   ► charging is not a miracle, oh my God,

00:42:21 ◼   ► everybody's gonna love it,

00:42:22 ◼   ► everybody's gonna have this everywhere.

00:42:24 ◼   ► I think it's very much like, how do you use your devices?

00:42:28 ◼   ► Where do you charge them?

00:42:30 ◼   ► When do you charge them?

00:42:32 ◼   ► And where are your plugs and all of that

00:42:34 ◼   ► to make it worth the, you know,

00:42:38 ◼   ► 'cause what we're really saying is,

00:42:40 ◼   ► I don't wanna have to plug in a cable.

00:42:41 ◼   ► I'm not sure that landing an iPhone

00:42:46 ◼   ► on a little helipad on your table

00:42:51 ◼   ► and confirming that it's actually charging

00:42:54 ◼   ► is less cognitively challenging

00:42:58 ◼   ► than plugging in a lightning cable.

00:43:00 ◼   ► And the lightning cable is more efficient

00:43:02 ◼   ► and more foolproof.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Still could be unplugged on the other end,

00:43:06 ◼   ► it's possible, it's happened.

00:43:07 ◼   ► And so I don't know, I guess it's a nice option,

00:43:14 ◼   ► but I think that you should not,

00:43:17 ◼   ► people out there who haven't tried it,

00:43:18 ◼   ► don't assume that you're absolutely gonna wanna do it,

00:43:22 ◼   ► and it's gonna be the best thing ever,

00:43:24 ◼   ► because I think for some people it will fit their lives,

00:43:28 ◼   ► and for other people it'll be like,

00:43:30 ◼   ► why do I have this?

00:43:33 ◼   ► Now instead of having a little white cable,

00:43:36 ◼   ► now I've got a plastic puck sitting somewhere.

00:43:40 ◼   ► And again, will it be better if it's like a little mat

00:43:44 ◼   ► in your car or it's something that doesn't look like a shiny plastic disc but it's more

00:43:51 ◼   ► subtle and all that. Sure, there are lots of different scenarios, there are lots of

00:43:55 ◼   ► different ways that this could work better, but my initial response is it's cool and all,

00:44:02 ◼   ► but I'm not sure I would choose it over just--I think plugging in my phone is fine, honestly.

00:44:08 ◼   ► used it for a few days. It's like, it's novel to land it on the little puck, but I, you

00:44:15 ◼   ► know, it's, it seems more foolproof and not any harder to just plug in a lightning cable

00:44:21 ◼   ► at that point.

00:44:23 ◼   ► When Phil Schiller introduced the air power thing on stage, he specifically called out

00:44:28 ◼   ► travel as a thing. Like when you go traveling, you don't want all the cables. I could see

00:44:33 ◼   ► myself wanting to have the air power thing for travel, right? So I just have this one

00:44:37 ◼   ► thing that I put on the nightstand wherever I go and it charges everything. I don't know

00:44:42 ◼   ► if I really want this at home because I have some really nice docks that I use. I use the

00:44:46 ◼   ► Studio Neat Docks and I like them. I like them because they stand everything up and

00:44:50 ◼   ► they keep it all in place and I don't know if the wireless charging for those reasons

00:44:54 ◼   ► is going to be that helpful to me because then I'm still going to need two things right

00:44:58 ◼   ► because I can't wirelessly charge my Apple Watch so I'm going to need something for that

00:45:02 ◼   ► for now. So yeah, I feel like it's good that it's there as an option now, but I'm

00:45:08 ◼   ► also pleased that they didn't take away the Lightning connector.

00:45:11 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. I don't think you can. I've heard a couple podcasts speculate about like,

00:45:20 ◼   ► "Well, you know, is it only a matter of time before the Lightning connector goes?"

00:45:24 ◼   ► Like, I don't think so. I think you gotta have one way into these devices. I think that

00:45:28 ◼   ► Apple Watch shows that it's everything gets way more dangerous when you lose

00:45:33 ◼   ► all connection to the outside world because it's much more easy to to brick

00:45:36 ◼   ► something and not get it back.

00:45:38 ◼   ► It's the reason there's no public beta for watch OS right because there's no

00:45:42 ◼   ► way to just plug it in somewhere and reset it if it dies it's dead and you

00:45:46 ◼   ► gotta take it into the Apple Store basically at that point so I'm skeptical

00:45:50 ◼   ► about that.

00:45:51 ◼   ► It's a it's a nice feature and over time yeah if there are Qi related things

00:45:55 ◼   ► everywhere like the car is a good example where if there's a place if I

00:45:59 ◼   ► could you know there's a place where I can lay my phone naturally in the car

00:46:02 ◼   ► that I would anyway and it just everything magically happens I guess

00:46:05 ◼   ► that's great if the if a hotel room has something like this I think that would

00:46:10 ◼   ► be great. Coffee shops, you know all those things. It's good for that stuff. I think honestly I think

00:46:16 ◼   ► wireless charging is more convenient outside of the home and and so yeah

00:46:21 ◼   ► because the good part about it is you don't need to give everybody a different cable,

00:46:28 ◼   ► right? Like that's the idea is everybody uses the same standard and that is a better situation than

00:46:33 ◼   ► the one that we currently have where you need to have cables or bring your own cable. The idea of

00:46:37 ◼   ► anyone being able to put their phone, you know, whether you have a Samsung or an LG or an iPhone

00:46:41 ◼   ► and you just put it down in one place and it starts to charge like that's great. That's great

00:46:45 ◼   ► for everybody but in the home, maybe not so much. So I'm assuming that you're going to be using the

00:46:51 ◼   ► regular size 8 until the 10 comes out? Would I be right in assuming that?

00:46:55 ◼   ► Yeah I think so. I had the same thought about I've got a little bit of time here

00:47:02 ◼   ► maybe I maybe I spend more time with the plus model. The camera is great the

00:47:08 ◼   ► second I you know I took it to the football game on Saturday and took some

00:47:12 ◼   ► pictures with it. It looks great the camera is so nice the having the

00:47:16 ◼   ► telephoto lens is fantastic. But I think for me, bottom line, I use my phone one-handed

00:47:27 ◼   ► most of the time and I can't use that plus one-handed. I just can't. It's just too big.

00:47:35 ◼   ► And so the plus size is not ever going to work for me. It's just never going to work

00:47:39 ◼   ► for me because of the way that I use, the benefit that I would gain. Because I thought

00:47:43 ◼   ► about it also because of the Apple Watch, right? Like, if you've got a cellular Apple

00:47:47 ◼   ► Watch, you don't need to take your phone everywhere. You don't need to take your phone running.

00:47:50 ◼   ► You don't need to do any of those things. So you could have a huge phone, because in

00:47:56 ◼   ► times when you need ultra-portability, you just don't bring your phone, and you just

00:48:00 ◼   ► bring your Apple Watch. I thought about that. But then, in the end, it came back down to,

00:48:04 ◼   ► it's not comfortable in my hand, I can't reach things on the screen, it makes me have to

00:48:08 ◼   ► use the other hand in order to do stuff because, and I don't like that, that's not

00:48:13 ◼   ► how I use my phone. My iPhone is largely something I hold in my left hand

00:48:17 ◼   ► and do interface stuff with my thumb most of the time and then occasionally

00:48:23 ◼   ► you know I'll change hand positions to type something or all that, but a lot

00:48:28 ◼   ► of it is just scanning things in one hand and I can't hold the plus

00:48:33 ◼   ► comfortably and it hurts me because the screen is beautiful and that camera is

00:48:38 ◼   ► beautiful but the good news is Apple is also going to make a phone that's sized more like

00:48:44 ◼   ► the iPhone 8 and has both cameras so that how about that so that is that's that's what

00:48:50 ◼   ► I'm hearing but here's so you've actually not yet you're leading this quite nicely towards

00:48:55 ◼   ► the end of the discussion here which is the poor fate of the iPhone 8 this is I think

00:49:03 ◼   ► a much bigger jump phone to phone than the 7 was to the 7S, maybe even the 6S to the

00:49:09 ◼   ► 7 in some instances. The amount of features, the change in design, the change in materials,

00:49:15 ◼   ► it's a really good update. I think it is giving the customer more, especially than the 7 did.

00:49:23 ◼   ► And the 7S, sorry, the 7 did. We didn't have a 7S. Did we? No, we didn't have a 7S. 6S

00:49:29 ◼   ► to the 7. Oh my gosh.

00:49:30 ◼   ► gosh. The 8 is the 7S. Yeah something like that. So I'll rephrase that from the 6s to

00:49:37 ◼   ► the 7 I think that the 7 to the 8 is a much much better upgrade but it is getting completely

00:49:44 ◼   ► overshadowed by the fact that the 10 is coming and I feel sorry for the iPhone 8 because

00:49:51 ◼   ► I wished that this was the phone that I got for my previous generation because I remain

00:49:59 ◼   ► that like my 7 is fine but I don't really feel like I got that much out of it you know

00:50:04 ◼   ► I lost things you know like I lost the headphone jack and I lost the 100% reliable home button

00:50:11 ◼   ► with no reason really for why that came out don't @ me there's no reason and I think that

00:50:19 ◼   ► the 8 is great like there is a lot of really interesting things in this phone but the 10

00:50:25 ◼   ► is just around the corner and it's like this huge X that is like shadowing over

00:50:31 ◼   ► the 8 is how I imagine it right and it's just there's nothing that can happen

00:50:35 ◼   ► every review talks about the 10 yeah but a lot of people for a lot of people the

00:50:40 ◼   ► 10 is not the phone for them right there there are this is my do believe right

00:50:43 ◼   ► like it this is a great phone but it just keeps getting overshadowed and it's

00:50:48 ◼   ► a shame because I mean I've seen so many of my friends by the 8 and they're super

00:50:50 ◼   ► happy with it which I'm really pleased about because this is a this is a great

00:50:54 ◼   ► phone that exists for people that don't want or can't afford or have no interest

00:50:59 ◼   ► in the other one. Yeah, I feel like the people who buy a new iPhone every year

00:51:09 ◼   ► there what we're gonna do is we're gonna see a split in the market of people who

00:51:16 ◼   ► buy the latest and absolutely greatest from Apple and people who just want an

00:51:21 ◼   ► iPhone update. And the fact is, if before, when the 7 came out, like, there were

00:51:28 ◼   ► people upgrading from the 6s who want the latest and greatest, and there are

00:51:31 ◼   ► people upgrading from the 6 and the 5s and the 5 who just want a new iPhone,

00:51:35 ◼   ► and this is the latest iPhone, so they'll get it. And some of them might even have

00:51:39 ◼   ► chosen the 6s at that point from the 5 and save a little bit of money, right?

00:51:44 ◼   ► That was always there. What the existence of the 10 does is create this extra

00:51:50 ◼   ► option and my suspicion is that everybody who is on the every year phone

00:51:56 ◼   ► I want the latest and greatest I'm a huge fan of Apple all these things

00:52:00 ◼   ► they're going to be lining up for that 10 but if you're coming from like my

00:52:05 ◼   ► wife if you're coming from the 6 or the 6s and you look at the 8 like the 8 is

00:52:11 ◼   ► great it's a great update and the 10 is new and expensive and you know unlike

00:52:18 ◼   ► anything they've seen before and some of those people will probably be like "yeah, no,

00:52:21 ◼   ► let's do it, I'm all in." But I think this leads to why this the the 8 is less

00:52:26 ◼   ► exciting is the 8 is less exciting because it's slotting into a price

00:52:30 ◼   ► category. It is the next generation of the last four years of phones and it

00:52:36 ◼   ► slots in at its point in the price hierarchy with a couple of phones below

00:52:41 ◼   ► it and now one above it and that means that it is reliable and a strong update and will sell a lot

00:52:50 ◼   ► to people who are upgrading from phones made two, three, four years ago and will be profitable for

00:52:55 ◼   ► Apple but what it's not going to have is the excitement of the brand new or the any specialness

00:53:05 ◼   ► of it being at the top of the line. And I think that's okay, but it's also just a fact.

00:53:12 ◼   ► Like, it's just a fact that it's not, it never got, well, it got half an hour in the keynote

00:53:19 ◼   ► where it was the king of the castle, and we all knew that the 10 was coming anyway, right?

00:53:24 ◼   ► So it's just a solid product that iterates on the previous generations and that will sell a

00:53:31 ◼   ► lot of them and make a lot of money for Apple at that price point, but it's not

00:53:35 ◼   ► the best iPhone right and it's never gonna be I do think that there is I mean

00:53:42 ◼   ► I agree with you most I do think that there is a little bit of a split which

00:53:46 ◼   ► if of the people that want the latest and greatest that just don't want the 10

00:53:51 ◼   ► for whatever reason you know and in a way that it hasn't been before you know

00:53:55 ◼   ► I feel like the latest and greatest crowd has always just bought the latest

00:53:58 ◼   ► and greatest but now there is a split between like latest and preferred right

00:54:04 ◼   ► which is maybe different to how it has been before,

00:54:08 ◼   ► but I do agree that I think that the majority of people

00:54:12 ◼   ► that have wanted to get the new phone every year

00:54:14 ◼   ► will wait for the X, but there is like a group

00:54:18 ◼   ► which is significant enough, which is like,

00:54:21 ◼   ► for whatever reason, design, price, whatever it is

00:54:25 ◼   ► that are staying away from the X for now.

00:54:27 ◼   ► But yeah, the eight line, it's very attractive.

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00:56:38 ◼   ► So the Apple Watch Series 3. I think we'll start off because we both got them. We both

00:56:43 ◼   ► have opinions on them I'm sure but there's been a lot of mixed reviews for this device

00:56:47 ◼   ► which has been really interesting and it all seems to come down to the connectivity.

00:56:51 ◼   ► There's been lots of positive reviews and some negative reviews as well in a way that's

00:56:55 ◼   ► interesting for Apple products. I don't think you really see negativity as such like as in

00:57:01 ◼   ► this doesn't work but there's been a bunch of those to the point that Apple have released

00:57:07 ◼   ► some statements saying that there are some issues with the LTE Apple Watch which has kind of

00:57:13 ◼   ► actually been an issue with the Apple Watch in general since it came around, but they've

00:57:17 ◼   ► never really been surfaced at scale since the LTE Watch.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Effectively what's happening is, the Apple Watch is trying to connect to open WiFi networks

00:57:30 ◼   ► that you need to enter passwords for. So you know you go to Starbucks and you connect to

00:57:34 ◼   ► Starbucks and it pops up on your phone or your tablet or your Mac or whatever, hey put

00:57:38 ◼   ► this password in or press this button and you can connect. Well obviously the Apple

00:57:43 ◼   ► Watch with no browser, no interface for that cannot connect to these. So the device believes

00:57:49 ◼   ► it's connected to Wi-Fi because it connects to a network but it has no internet connection.

00:57:54 ◼   ► And the reason this is coming up more is because to save battery the Series 3 Apple Watch will

00:58:00 ◼   ► connect to Wi-Fi as much as it can when the phone's not around. Well the point of this

00:58:07 ◼   ► device is the phone shouldn't be around. Yeah, and this is, you know, the existing

00:58:12 ◼   ► Apple Watch would do that, the previous ones, if you're on a previously joined Wi-Fi network,

00:58:18 ◼   ► it would, you're at the supermarket or something, and it's not cellular, but it sees a Wi-Fi

00:58:24 ◼   ► network it recognizes, it would try to get on it, right? Because then it can get data

00:58:27 ◼   ► and it can update your stuff, and that's great. But obviously something happened in

00:58:32 ◼   ► in watchOS 4 that caused this to happen in networks that it hadn't successfully connected

00:58:40 ◼   ► to before with captive portals that it can't possibly log into and then it would just sit

00:58:46 ◼   ► there on the dead Wi-Fi and that meant your phone. I mean I've had that happen with other

00:58:51 ◼   ► devices too, right? I had to have them with a Nintendo Switch at a hotel where it was

00:58:56 ◼   ► a captive portal and the switches web UI which it does have but sometimes on some corporate

00:59:03 ◼   ► Wi-Fi networks or hotel Wi-Fi networks it won't slide up the login panel no matter what

00:59:08 ◼   ► you do and you just can't get on that Wi-Fi network it's just impossible and and it's

00:59:13 ◼   ► a little bit like that here where it just you know there's nothing that the the watch

00:59:17 ◼   ► can do at that point and it's not smart enough to say either don't connect there or I need

00:59:24 ◼   ► to not be, I can't get an internet connection on the Wi-Fi,

00:59:27 ◼   ► so I'm gonna bail back to cellular.

00:59:29 ◼   ► And Apple said they're gonna do a software update,

00:59:31 ◼   ► but that's on Apple.

00:59:32 ◼   ► I experienced some issues with the Apple Watch 2,

00:59:37 ◼   ► I have the Apple Watch Series 3 with cellular,

00:59:40 ◼   ► and it definitely feels like there are software,

00:59:44 ◼   ► it feels to me like in certain circumstances

00:59:47 ◼   ► and once everything is set up and running,

00:59:49 ◼   ► that it works pretty well.

00:59:52 ◼   ► The problem is what people found about the Wi-Fi,

00:59:56 ◼   ► where they said the cellular didn't work,

00:59:58 ◼   ► it's not really accurate.

00:59:59 ◼   ► What was happening is that it was connecting

01:00:00 ◼   ► to Wi-Fi networks that shouldn't be.

01:00:02 ◼   ► When I'm not near any of those,

01:00:04 ◼   ► I haven't seen that feature at all,

01:00:05 ◼   ► but when I'm not near Wi-Fi or something,

01:00:07 ◼   ► cellular works great.

01:00:08 ◼   ► I had an issue where I set up the watch.

01:00:11 ◼   ► The next day I went out on a bike ride

01:00:15 ◼   ► with just the watch, listening to music,

01:00:17 ◼   ► and it worked pretty well,

01:00:19 ◼   ► And then it rebooted.

01:00:22 ◼   ► Like, Apple logo on the screen.

01:00:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is a thing that you're gonna notice more.

01:00:28 ◼   ► - Ding ding in my AirPods, in my AirPods,

01:00:31 ◼   ► as like, oh, I've lost the connection,

01:00:33 ◼   ► and the watch is gone and the music stopped.

01:00:35 ◼   ► And then I got it going again, and it did it again.

01:00:39 ◼   ► - So I have noticed with my Series 2,

01:00:42 ◼   ► that every now and then I'll catch the Apple logo.

01:00:45 ◼   ► The watch seems to reboot quite frequently,

01:00:49 ◼   ► but you maybe don't notice it.

01:00:51 ◼   ► - I had a workout going,

01:00:52 ◼   ► and when the phone came back after the reboot,

01:00:54 ◼   ► or who knows if it's a full reboot

01:00:56 ◼   ► or if it's losing the UI.

01:00:58 ◼   ► - Springboard or whatever it's doing.

01:00:59 ◼   ► - Whatever is happening, but it's showing the Apple logo,

01:01:01 ◼   ► and in fact, it was showing the dim Apple logo,

01:01:03 ◼   ► then the brightness comes up and then it comes back.

01:01:06 ◼   ► But the workout timing continued, like,

01:01:09 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, no, you've been working out this whole time.

01:01:11 ◼   ► I've totally been paying attention to you."

01:01:12 ◼   ► I'm not sure that it actually had,

01:01:13 ◼   ► but it kept it going, so I might've missed it.

01:01:16 ◼   ► And except that my music stopped,

01:01:18 ◼   ► and the AirPods de-paired with,

01:01:21 ◼   ► or disconnected from the device.

01:01:23 ◼   ► And so that was something.

01:01:26 ◼   ► I also had a case where Bluetooth just disconnected

01:01:29 ◼   ► my AirPods spontaneously.

01:01:32 ◼   ► So that was not good.

01:01:34 ◼   ► And then the weird thing is, then I came home

01:01:36 ◼   ► and I noticed also that my bike, the bike computer,

01:01:38 ◼   ► you know, on the workout, wasn't measuring distance

01:01:42 ◼   ► or speed, which doesn't make any sense, right?

01:01:44 ◼   ► And I get home and keep in mind,

01:01:46 ◼   ► this is 24 hours after I set this thing up.

01:01:49 ◼   ► And I get a flurry of permission requests

01:01:55 ◼   ► where it's like, I would like to track your location.

01:01:59 ◼   ► The activity app would like to track your location.

01:02:02 ◼   ► The weather app would like to track your location.

01:02:04 ◼   ► Oh, I also noticed that the weather app

01:02:06 ◼   ► thought that I was in Salt Lake City,

01:02:08 ◼   ► which is super weird where I was a month ago.

01:02:14 ◼   ► So it feels to me like the watch got stuck in,

01:02:19 ◼   ► after being set up and it wasn't, it's a new watch.

01:02:22 ◼   ► So it came with watchOS 4.

01:02:24 ◼   ► After it got set up and restored my data and all of that,

01:02:28 ◼   ► it got stuck in a weird place where it should have been

01:02:32 ◼   ► asking for permissions for location and stuff like that,

01:02:36 ◼   ► but it didn't, it got stuck.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And I wonder if that might've actually had something to do

01:02:41 ◼   ► with the reboots, is that it was in a weird state

01:02:44 ◼   ► where it was restored, but it wasn't restored all the way.

01:02:47 ◼   ► I can theorize it about all I like.

01:02:49 ◼   ► The fact is I went out for a workout with listening to music

01:02:53 ◼   ► and it failed me three times, twice by rebooting.

01:02:57 ◼   ► Since that got unstuck and it asked me

01:03:00 ◼   ► all the locations, permissions,

01:03:03 ◼   ► everything's been fine.

01:03:06 ◼   ► All the data has been right,

01:03:07 ◼   ► the locations have been right,

01:03:08 ◼   ► the activity data measures distance,

01:03:10 ◼   ► and I haven't had a reboot.

01:03:13 ◼   ► which is why I'm saying like,

01:03:14 ◼   ► I wonder if this is one of those issues

01:03:17 ◼   ► where they really tested the watch in use,

01:03:20 ◼   ► but didn't test it quite as much in setting up from zero

01:03:24 ◼   ► and migrating from a backup.

01:03:26 ◼   ► - Hmm, okay, so maybe it gets better over time.

01:03:29 ◼   ► - Right, so that's just a theory

01:03:31 ◼   ► 'cause I haven't seen those behaviors since then.

01:03:34 ◼   ► But let me tell you, if I had had to write a review

01:03:36 ◼   ► after workout number one with a new Apple Watch,

01:03:39 ◼   ► it would not have been good because it was like useless.

01:03:42 ◼   ► it was rebooting and completely unstable.

01:03:45 ◼   ► And yet since then it's been fine.

01:03:48 ◼   ► So that's my gut feeling is that they've got bugs

01:03:50 ◼   ► and they've got stuff that they didn't adequately test.

01:03:52 ◼   ► And the reason they thought that it was fine

01:03:55 ◼   ► is probably because the stuff that they were looking for

01:03:59 ◼   ► was while it was all set up and going

01:04:02 ◼   ► and not maybe the onboarding process.

01:04:04 ◼   ► But, so I don't know, I've got more to report.

01:04:06 ◼   ► I've got more times I need to take it out untethered.

01:04:09 ◼   ► I've done that a few times.

01:04:10 ◼   ► I love being able to do that,

01:04:12 ◼   ► but you gotta rely on it in those cases

01:04:15 ◼   ► and you can't have it.

01:04:16 ◼   ► If this thing is sold as we preloaded your music,

01:04:20 ◼   ► you can listen to your Apple music on your AirPods

01:04:22 ◼   ► and record your workout.

01:04:24 ◼   ► So go do that and you'll still be in touch.

01:04:26 ◼   ► And I called Steven Hackett at one point during that too.

01:04:28 ◼   ► And that worked.

01:04:30 ◼   ► Great.

01:04:31 ◼   ► If I try that and it fails multiple times,

01:04:33 ◼   ► that's not so great.

01:04:34 ◼   ► So I need to try it some more,

01:04:35 ◼   ► but the initial,

01:04:37 ◼   ► I think it was in some kind of messed up state

01:04:39 ◼   ► and that's on Apple.

01:04:40 ◼   ► This is just, it's not doing, there are bugs happening in the setup.

01:04:44 ◼   ► That seems to be the case.

01:04:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:46 ◼   ► That's the definite, right?

01:04:47 ◼   ► There are going to be bugs with this product.

01:04:49 ◼   ► It's a new thing.

01:04:50 ◼   ► It's a weirdly difficult thing, I'm sure, to try and make this thing work.

01:04:55 ◼   ► But in regards to the Wi-Fi issue, the connectivity issue that some reviewers were seeing, Apple

01:05:00 ◼   ► released a statement and they were like, "We know this is a problem and we're going to

01:05:03 ◼   ► try and fix it in a software update later."

01:05:07 ◼   ► It seems like a lot of these problems came to light once it was starting to be reviewed,

01:05:13 ◼   ► because there were maybe people in high traffic areas like in New York City, where a lot of

01:05:19 ◼   ► these publications are, or like in downtown San Francisco, where there are a lot of open

01:05:23 ◼   ► Wi-Fi networks that need these captive networks, they're called, where you have to do something

01:05:28 ◼   ► and it's starting to see these problems.

01:05:29 ◼   ► So now Apple needs to try and fix this and I don't know how they're going to do it and

01:05:33 ◼   ► it's going to be interesting to see how they do it.

01:05:36 ◼   ► - I think they already had this behavior

01:05:38 ◼   ► and then it isn't working in watchOS 4.

01:05:40 ◼   ► 'Cause the whole idea is that if you can't,

01:05:42 ◼   ► if the watch hasn't connected before to that network

01:05:47 ◼   ► and it appears open, but it can't get data out,

01:05:52 ◼   ► then it needs to just be like, nope, I can't do that.

01:05:55 ◼   ► And move on. - Right.

01:05:57 ◼   ► - And it isn't.

01:05:58 ◼   ► So they should be able to fix this.

01:06:00 ◼   ► And like I said, I think they have code

01:06:02 ◼   ► that already addresses this, that's in watchOS 3.

01:06:06 ◼   ► and something happened and it's not working right

01:06:08 ◼   ► in watchOS 4.

01:06:09 ◼   ► So I'm hopeful that this will be a pretty easy fix,

01:06:11 ◼   ► but yeah, whoops, ouch.

01:06:15 ◼   ► That said, there's a lot I like about it.

01:06:18 ◼   ► You've got one too, right?

01:06:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do.

01:06:22 ◼   ► I got mine on Saturday.

01:06:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, so there's a lot I like about it

01:06:26 ◼   ► now that it's up and running,

01:06:27 ◼   ► but it was a rocky setup process.

01:06:30 ◼   ► - So I will say that I was actually impressed

01:06:32 ◼   ► with the general setup flow, right?

01:06:35 ◼   ► Like I know that you have problems like initially.

01:06:37 ◼   ► - Totally.

01:06:38 ◼   ► - But the actual setup of the product itself

01:06:41 ◼   ► was one of the nicest that I've used in a while.

01:06:45 ◼   ► - So let's, one of our episodes that got a lot of acclaim

01:06:48 ◼   ► a couple of years ago was when we talked about

01:06:51 ◼   ► the upgrade experience, right?

01:06:52 ◼   ► And we really kind of ripped into Apple

01:06:55 ◼   ► about how setting up Apple TV was hard,

01:06:58 ◼   ► setting up a new iPhone is hard,

01:06:59 ◼   ► getting a new iPhone should be one of the happier days

01:07:02 ◼   ► of your year, right?

01:07:03 ◼   ► It's like, yay, new stuff to play with.

01:07:05 ◼   ► This is awesome.

01:07:06 ◼   ► Hooray.

01:07:07 ◼   ► And instead you get frustrated

01:07:08 ◼   ► because it's like taking forever

01:07:09 ◼   ► and it's confused about what apps it can download

01:07:12 ◼   ► and apps download stall out

01:07:14 ◼   ► and you have to enter in your password a million times

01:07:16 ◼   ► and approve a bunch of different screens.

01:07:18 ◼   ► And we really rightfully, I think,

01:07:21 ◼   ► gave Apple a lot of stick about that.

01:07:23 ◼   ► They are way better at it now than they used to be.

01:07:27 ◼   ► If you had an iPhone running iOS 11

01:07:31 ◼   ► and you updated to a new iPhone this time,

01:07:33 ◼   ► so you updated your old iPhone to 11

01:07:35 ◼   ► and then you bought a new iPhone.

01:07:36 ◼   ► You get to use their new transfer technology,

01:07:40 ◼   ► which is very much like the Apple Watch setup,

01:07:41 ◼   ► where you take a picture of the screen of one from the other,

01:07:44 ◼   ► you put in your passcode,

01:07:45 ◼   ► a whole bunch of your data comes over automatically,

01:07:48 ◼   ► and it dramatically reduces the amount of time

01:07:50 ◼   ► you spend fiddling with settings on your new phone.

01:07:54 ◼   ► There's still some stuff you gotta re-input and authorize

01:07:56 ◼   ► and all of that, but it's so much better than it was before.

01:07:59 ◼   ► The Apple Watch onboarding, similarly,

01:08:01 ◼   ► they did a very good job.

01:08:04 ◼   ► there was not a lot of fiddling I had to do, not a lot of messing around with details because

01:08:08 ◼   ► it restored from a backup that was my other Apple watch. And, you know, the, you know,

01:08:15 ◼   ► I had issues later where it seemed to get in a weird state, but the actual walkthrough

01:08:19 ◼   ► was fine. And the Apple TV 4K, because I got one of those this weekend too, that's again,

01:08:24 ◼   ► same deal. They have the, you know, bring a phone near it. And they had that, I think,

01:08:31 ◼   ► year too, and it copies off a bunch of the settings so I don't have to deal

01:08:34 ◼   ► with it anymore. So in all of these cases Apple has done a lot better on the

01:08:40 ◼   ► onboarding than they had two or three years ago and they deserve

01:08:46 ◼   ► our appreciation for that, like they have made a lot of strides there

01:08:51 ◼   ► because that was an area that needed a lot of help and they've done a pretty

01:08:55 ◼   ► good job, especially on the iPhone, but the Apple Watch is a good example too. So

01:08:59 ◼   ► So fair, I think, for us to mention that.

01:09:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I really like that all I did was I had my Apple Watch.

01:09:07 ◼   ► I took it out of the box.

01:09:08 ◼   ► I turned it on.

01:09:09 ◼   ► And because my phone was close by, it was like,

01:09:11 ◼   ► do you want to set this up?

01:09:12 ◼   ► I was like, yeah, I do.

01:09:15 ◼   ► Thanks.

01:09:15 ◼   ► And the backup had already been completed

01:09:18 ◼   ► from the previous watch, so it was already there.

01:09:20 ◼   ► Something that I was blown away by, right?

01:09:22 ◼   ► I'm setting up Apple Pay.

01:09:24 ◼   ► And I ask for them to text me a code,

01:09:27 ◼   ► my bank to text me a code.

01:09:28 ◼   ► the text comes through, the code that was in the text was automatically pre-filled when

01:09:33 ◼   ► the text came in. So there's something going on with machine learning, I'm sure, that read

01:09:38 ◼   ► the text message and put the code in for me. I was like, "Oh my god, this is amazing!"

01:09:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it does that sometimes when it knows that it's receiving its own verification code.

01:09:50 ◼   ► It just knows, "Oh, that's mine," and it takes it.

01:09:53 ◼   ► And then I really liked that they've added this, I assume this is an OS4 thing.

01:09:58 ◼   ► When the watch is setting up, because it takes some time, right, like it's got that spinning

01:10:02 ◼   ► thing like it is filling up, there was this new kind of like Apple Watch basics guides

01:10:06 ◼   ► thing which teaches you about what they call to press firmly on the screen, so it's not

01:10:11 ◼   ► called 3D touch or force touch, like you should press firmly for more options, it tells you

01:10:15 ◼   ► about the digital crown and a side button, it just explains what they do, so you can

01:10:18 ◼   ► actually do something while the watch is doing whatever it's doing.

01:10:22 ◼   ► I assume it's back. It's like restoring from the cloud is what it's doing.

01:10:25 ◼   ► For the LTE stuff, I was really surprised about this.

01:10:29 ◼   ► I get six months of unlimited data for free with EE and then it's five pounds a

01:10:34 ◼   ► month for 10 gigabytes of data on my watch after that.

01:10:38 ◼   ► But I'm on no contract with them. It's a 30 day rolling contract so I can cancel

01:10:43 ◼   ► it whenever I want. But six months for free. It's pretty nice.

01:10:47 ◼   ► I don't know if this is the same for everybody. I think it is. But like,

01:10:50 ◼   ► I was really, really pleased about that.

01:10:51 ◼   ► I mean, actually, it is the same.

01:10:53 ◼   ► I looked it up.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Yeah, it is the same for everyone.

01:10:55 ◼   ► - Better deal than in the US where it's--

01:10:56 ◼   ► - Much better.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - $10 a month.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Although it's part of my pool,

01:11:00 ◼   ► so it's part of my data pool.

01:11:01 ◼   ► It doesn't have any specific data limitations.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Although Apple is trying very hard

01:11:05 ◼   ► to reduce how much data it uses.

01:11:07 ◼   ► I think more for power consumption reasons than anything.

01:11:12 ◼   ► Where it is aggressively like looking at your,

01:11:16 ◼   ► if you use Apple Music,

01:11:17 ◼   ► it is aggressively looking at your Apple Music

01:11:19 ◼   ► like things that you play a lot, playlists you play a lot,

01:11:23 ◼   ► the algorithmically generated playlist

01:11:26 ◼   ► that Apple Music does based on your preferences.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And it is automatically syncing those overnight

01:11:33 ◼   ► when your watch is charging,

01:11:35 ◼   ► because it wants to preload as much data as it can

01:11:39 ◼   ► so that you don't have to use data.

01:11:42 ◼   ► Not for the data caps so much

01:11:44 ◼   ► is because that cellular radio obviously

01:11:47 ◼   ► drains the battery dramatically.

01:11:49 ◼   ► So they're trying to be very aggressive about having it not used very much.

01:11:52 ◼   ► And you can't really use a lot of that storage for much anyway,

01:11:55 ◼   ► so why not fill it up with music and purge it when something's needed?

01:11:58 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:12:00 ◼   ► I tried, like you, I sent text messages, I made some calls.

01:12:04 ◼   ► In my home, I have one bar of coverage, but this is normal.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Like I don't get great cell reception in my house, but it was able to do it all.

01:12:12 ◼   ► I went outside and it was fine.

01:12:14 ◼   ► The speaker's much louder.

01:12:16 ◼   ► Like everything was fine with that.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Like I haven't done like extensive testing in central London and I will do that and I

01:12:21 ◼   ► will try it and I will report back if it's a problem.

01:12:24 ◼   ► But what I've had so far was great.

01:12:26 ◼   ► I just threw my iPhone into airplane mode.

01:12:29 ◼   ► I confirmed that it wasn't connected to Wi-Fi but you know, because you can scroll up and

01:12:33 ◼   ► I can see it had the little dots indicators for the cell stuff and it was working great.

01:12:38 ◼   ► I did test a bunch of third party apps, stuff like FantastiCow, Joo, Carrot Weather, AirMail.

01:12:43 ◼   ► None of these apps could get any data over LTE.

01:12:46 ◼   ► were all asking to where's the phone right so I thought I wonder what was

01:12:51 ◼   ► going on here and if there was something that could be done so I spoke to our

01:12:55 ◼   ► good friend underscore David Smith because I know he has a lot of knowledge

01:12:59 ◼   ► of working on watch development and I asked him like what is the situation

01:13:03 ◼   ► here so he kind of said to me that like the way that the watch apps have been

01:13:08 ◼   ► done before and the past has been knows they've always needed the phone to

01:13:11 ◼   ► piggyback on for any kind of information so they just look for that so all of the

01:13:15 ◼   ► watch apps that we have, they're looking for the phone because that's how they're developed,

01:13:19 ◼   ► but it doesn't need to be this way. So it is possible to have watch apps talk to data

01:13:25 ◼   ► in the cloud, talk to servers, but this isn't something that anybody's done previously because

01:13:30 ◼   ► it wasn't required. The phone always had to be there. So I could, well, this is, well,

01:13:35 ◼   ► okay, so this is a quote from underscore. He said, "To make a watch app work well on

01:13:39 ◼   ► its own, it has to be treated like a peer of the phone app and synced directly to the

01:13:43 ◼   ► server rather than just leeching on the phone's data. So it is possible to do stuff to talk

01:13:49 ◼   ► to a server, like so something like Fantastical could pull from a server, but it takes a lot

01:13:53 ◼   ► of work and this will take work from developers that they haven't needed to do before and

01:13:57 ◼   ► I'm keen to see if this is something that people are going to put effort into.

01:14:01 ◼   ► So watchOS 3 let the watch independently connect to Wi-Fi networks without the phone around.

01:14:08 ◼   ► developers were told at the time like you can use this feature. I think the

01:14:12 ◼   ► the right way to say it would be to say that was such a rare use case that there

01:14:20 ◼   ► there was no reason to completely rebuild a watch app to operate

01:14:25 ◼   ► independently for the circumstance where you happen to be on an open Wi-Fi

01:14:30 ◼   ► network with only your watch and your and your phone not around right yeah

01:14:34 ◼   ► Whereas now with the cellular, the use case is dramatically expanded.

01:14:39 ◼   ► And which is why, so it's not as if developers couldn't have done this last year,

01:14:44 ◼   ► it's more that they had no good reason to.

01:14:47 ◼   ► And the cellular capability gives them a reason to.

01:14:49 ◼   ► I may not have phrased it very well, but it's more just the case of like,

01:14:53 ◼   ► it is possible to talk to the cloud, but apps don't do it because there hasn't been a requirement.

01:14:59 ◼   ► - Well, and because initially the only way these apps worked is by talking to their buddy on the iPhone, right?

01:15:04 ◼   ► And now, you know, now things have advanced to the point where...

01:15:08 ◼   ► But you can see, I mean, to people out there, what Myke said really makes sense if you think about it this way,

01:15:13 ◼   ► that you have to re-envision your watch app to be more independent and behave as like an app,

01:15:22 ◼   ► instead of just behaving as a client that sucks data

01:15:27 ◼   ► out of the iPhone app that goes with it.

01:15:31 ◼   ► And that's like a big shift in,

01:15:34 ◼   ► if your Fantastic Cal is a good example,

01:15:36 ◼   ► like there's a big difference between asking your buddy app,

01:15:40 ◼   ► give me calendar data and saying,

01:15:42 ◼   ► I need to connect to Google Calendar

01:15:45 ◼   ► and pull down the data directly from Google Calendar.

01:15:47 ◼   ► It's a, I'm not saying that that's necessarily

01:15:50 ◼   ► what Fantastic Cal is doing,

01:15:51 ◼   ► but it's a big paradigm shift.

01:15:53 ◼   ► And the watchOS 3 stuff with wifi,

01:15:56 ◼   ► I think was clearly a suggestion by Apple

01:15:59 ◼   ► that this is where the watch platform was going.

01:16:01 ◼   ► But again, how many people were doing that

01:16:04 ◼   ► versus now where people are gonna have these cellular watches

01:16:06 ◼   ► and are being encouraged to leave their iPhones behind.

01:16:08 ◼   ► Makes a big difference.

01:16:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, in my experience,

01:16:10 ◼   ► none of the third party apps that I use could work

01:16:13 ◼   ► without the phone being attached to it.

01:16:16 ◼   ► So I think it's gonna be interesting

01:16:18 ◼   ► to see what happens here

01:16:19 ◼   ► because there is more of a use case than ever for developers to do this.

01:16:23 ◼   ► But are they going to like is this time investment going to be worth it

01:16:27 ◼   ► for their watch apps?

01:16:28 ◼   ► I think it's going to be a case of waiting and seeing.

01:16:30 ◼   ► I think that Siri is good. Siri works good.

01:16:33 ◼   ► It speaks back. The voice sounds good.

01:16:35 ◼   ► You know, I don't think I'm going to use Siri any more than I used it

01:16:39 ◼   ► before for my watch, which is basically I'm probably not going to do it.

01:16:43 ◼   ► But it's there if I need it and it's better.

01:16:48 ◼   ► Mm-hmm general performance feels much nicer. It was way snappier some animations

01:16:53 ◼   ► So like, you know every now and then I get a notification now dismiss the animation on it

01:16:56 ◼   ► Like I'll dismiss it like the animation on that dismiss is much smoother and I'm noticing that when I'm when I'm seeing it

01:17:02 ◼   ► What do you think of the red dot?

01:17:04 ◼   ► on the crown

01:17:06 ◼   ► Not a fan. Okay, you have this you have the space gray like me. I'm assuming I'm assuming

01:17:11 ◼   ► Yeah, because that's what we both had before I have it too. I don't love it

01:17:16 ◼   ► I don't hate it but I would prefer it if it wasn't that way but I'm not kind of tripping

01:17:21 ◼   ► over myself to get a sticker to put on it.

01:17:24 ◼   ► I'm fine with it because I actually don't see it most of the time.

01:17:28 ◼   ► The crown's click feels different to me though.

01:17:31 ◼   ► I'm noticing that.

01:17:32 ◼   ► The clickiness of the crown feels different.

01:17:35 ◼   ► But yeah I think I'm with you in that I don't love the red but I don't know how you feel

01:17:41 ◼   ► like would you want to cover it up but it doesn't bother me that much.

01:17:45 ◼   ► I bought some stickers.

01:17:46 ◼   ► You did?

01:17:47 ◼   ► Okay.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:17:49 ◼   ► I want to know what they're like.

01:17:50 ◼   ► If you find any that you like, let us know on a future episode so we can include links

01:17:54 ◼   ► in the show notes if you're happy with them.

01:17:57 ◼   ► This watch has more heart rate sensing stuff and I know this is something that you were

01:18:01 ◼   ► frustrated about.

01:18:02 ◼   ► We've spoken about it over the last couple of weeks.

01:18:04 ◼   ► Do you have any tales of heart rate monitoring?

01:18:08 ◼   ► that I went to the football game on Saturday and there was a particularly exciting part

01:18:17 ◼   ► where we were standing, we were shouting and standing and cheering and I got my first heart

01:18:22 ◼   ► rate alert that said, "You seem to have an elevated heart rate while not doing a workout."

01:18:27 ◼   ► And I was like, "Well, yeah, I'm at a football game shouting and it's really exciting." And

01:18:31 ◼   ► I was like, "All right, fair enough. Like, yes, I'm not surprised my heart rate is elevated

01:18:36 ◼   ► there's a reason for it, it's fine. But it was a funny moment to have that be my

01:18:40 ◼   ► moment of elevated heart rate and accurate, totally accurate.

01:18:45 ◼   ► Yeah I don't do anything so I haven't got one yet.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Well just wait for it.

01:18:50 ◼   ► I'm happy with this device in general. I like it for all of the things that I liked about the

01:18:55 ◼   ► Series 2, right? Like it's faster, it's more capable, the battery life feels

01:19:00 ◼   ► exactly the same to me because I never had any problems with battery life anyway.

01:19:04 ◼   ► And I'm more, I'm keen to see how over time,

01:19:09 ◼   ► if and how attitudes of mine will change

01:19:12 ◼   ► towards my phone on my watch

01:19:14 ◼   ► and how they work in conjunction and apart.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Like I think that this is a long-term thing

01:19:18 ◼   ► to see if this is something that I pay attention to.

01:19:21 ◼   ► I'm keen to see how that is over time.

01:19:23 ◼   ► But I think this is something

01:19:27 ◼   ► that's going to take time to realize.

01:19:29 ◼   ► And one of those things for me is

01:19:31 ◼   ► that I hope that third-party apps will integrate to work better with the fact that they can

01:19:37 ◼   ► connect on their own independently now. And I hope that that's something that we start

01:19:41 ◼   ► to see more of over time because that would really make it good for me. Because there's

01:19:45 ◼   ► a few apps that I use a lot on my Apple Watch and I would want to be able to keep using

01:19:49 ◼   ► them when I'm outside of the home. And I hope that a lot of that stuff gets addressed. Like

01:19:54 ◼   ► for example, Overcast. I want Overcast and Marco wrote a blog post last night which I

01:19:59 ◼   ► just include in the show notes, which just talks about all of the things that he would

01:20:03 ◼   ► need to be able to build a good overclass client. And it feels like more than is going

01:20:08 ◼   ► to come before WatchOS 5. If within the next couple of years it seems like a lot of stuff.

01:20:14 ◼   ► So I hope that these things can be addressed because I think that this is a great device

01:20:18 ◼   ► with a lot of promise, but it's a version one and it feels like that. And that's fine,

01:20:24 ◼   ► but I want to see more as time goes on.

01:20:26 ◼   ► Well, I think most importantly, it's very clear that the hardware hardware pace is now outstripped the software pace.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Which is good though. I mean, yeah, because I agree with you completely and I think that's good, but I want to see the software catch up now.

01:20:37 ◼   ► I mean, I'm happy to see the hardware is is pushing forward at a good clip, but I want to see the software support going in tandem now.

01:20:46 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I mean, and it does speak the hardware as nice as this is like if the promise of cellular is not fulfilled

01:20:53 ◼   ► because the apps can't do what they need to do.

01:20:57 ◼   ► And Marco, you know, Marco's got one particular use case

01:21:00 ◼   ► he's looking for, but boy, you know,

01:21:02 ◼   ► when you hear him talk about what,

01:21:04 ◼   ► or him and David on Under the Radar talk about

01:21:08 ◼   ► what they can't do and all the hoops

01:21:12 ◼   ► they have to go through and how little

01:21:14 ◼   ► they're able to access in watchOS,

01:21:20 ◼   ► it starts to feel like the, you know, all the promise,

01:21:25 ◼   ► with all the promise of the Apple Watch cellular,

01:21:29 ◼   ► unless you're Apple and you've built it into watchOS,

01:21:32 ◼   ► basically it's not delivered.

01:21:34 ◼   ► And, you know, they can do more, like we said,

01:21:38 ◼   ► to make the apps access data better,

01:21:41 ◼   ► but it's, listening to developers,

01:21:45 ◼   ► it sounds like this is on Apple,

01:21:47 ◼   ► that watchOS is just not good enough for these apps to do what they need to do

01:21:51 ◼   ► to take advantage of the hardware. And that means, you know, that lessens the

01:21:56 ◼   ► impact of the hardware. That makes it less likely that it's worth it for you

01:22:00 ◼   ► to get an Apple Watch with cellular right now because outside of the stuff

01:22:05 ◼   ► that's on the device, the third-party app stuff is not that great a situation

01:22:09 ◼   ► right now. And like the podcast is a perfect example. Marco is trying

01:22:14 ◼   ► desperately to find a way to play podcasts on watchOS on cellular and

01:22:18 ◼   ► can't really do it. And Apple, despite having the podcast app on iOS, has shown

01:22:23 ◼   ► no desire to do it either. So if you listen to podcasts while you run, the

01:22:28 ◼   ► cellular watch won't help you and so you won't buy one. And so that's on Apple.

01:22:32 ◼   ► Like, Apple needs to fix up its developer story on watchOS and it's a shame that

01:22:38 ◼   ► the reality is that probably we're gonna have to wait a year for that to happen.

01:22:42 ◼   ► It'll be a whole year until watchOS 5 comes out that maybe addresses some of this.

01:22:48 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:22:49 ◼   ► That's too bad.

01:22:50 ◼   ► All right, it's time for Ask Upgrade.

01:22:53 ◼   ► #AskUpgrade and today Ask Upgrade is brought to you by our friends over at SMILE and today

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01:24:56 ◼   ► which at some point we're gonna talk about on this show.

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01:25:22 ◼   ► Okay, it is time for #askupgrade.

01:25:26 ◼   ► So you can send in your questions as always

01:25:28 ◼   ► with the #askupgrade and we'll get to them

01:25:30 ◼   ► at the end of the show

01:25:31 ◼   ► and these tend to be our technical questions.

01:25:33 ◼   ► today we're starting off with Lennart and Lennart asks is it a matter of time until

01:25:39 ◼   ► Apple builds a Qi charger into the iMac display or like into the stand you know the little

01:25:44 ◼   ► foot that's on the iMac or the external displays that could maybe allow us to charge our magic

01:25:49 ◼   ► mouse a keyboard or phone that'd be a nice place to put one.

01:25:53 ◼   ► Right in the little foot there what do you think?

01:25:56 ◼   ► Yeah I don't know.

01:25:58 ◼   ► I mean it would be nice whether they would do it or not I think it would be a nice thing

01:26:01 ◼   ► to have.

01:26:02 ◼   ► I'm sure it would be nice whether Apple would build,

01:26:06 ◼   ► cause keep in mind then that that piece of metal now needs to be a piece of

01:26:10 ◼   ► hardware, like electronic hardware.

01:26:13 ◼   ► And they have to connect it when the foot is attached, you know,

01:26:17 ◼   ► they have to have power.

01:26:18 ◼   ► And it would be thick, right?

01:26:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:20 ◼   ► And then they putting it in everyone expecting that people will use it.

01:26:25 ◼   ► I think, I think it's not likely personally.

01:26:32 ◼   ► Rajeev asked, "In iOS 11, how can you tell if an app is universal on the App Store?"

01:26:38 ◼   ► The universal badge has a little plus sign, which I'll show you is universal. I think

01:26:42 ◼   ► that's gone now, but there are ways. It's actually better than ever before in the new

01:26:45 ◼   ► App Store. So on any device, on any iOS device, there is a label underneath the screenshots

01:26:52 ◼   ► that says what platforms. So it will say like offers iPhone, Apple Watch, offers iMessage,

01:26:58 ◼   ► App Store, Sticker Pack, or whatever, it has all of them there. Whatever the device, whatever

01:27:04 ◼   ► this application can be supported on, it has it all listed. And then you can also tap on

01:27:08 ◼   ► that and see screenshots for each version of the application on all of the platforms.

01:27:13 ◼   ► So that's all there within those new screens, which is really great. I love those new App

01:27:17 ◼   ► Store listing pages. I think they look really good, really good. Having all of the reviews,

01:27:23 ◼   ► like I like the fact that the reviews are a number now, that makes more sense to my

01:27:26 ◼   ► brain. I like that you can see what like everything else that a developer has. It's all laid out

01:27:31 ◼   ► so much cleaner. I really like the new App Store a lot. And the pages are for each application,

01:27:38 ◼   ► each developer are nice, nice additions. Benjamin wants to know, Jason, how to pronounce correctly

01:27:46 ◼   ► the new file formats for images and videos on iOS and macOS.

01:27:51 ◼   ► Well, it is clearly "hife" and "hevick."

01:27:56 ◼   ► Oh, no!

01:27:57 ◼   ► You should always say them that way.

01:27:58 ◼   ► "Hife" and "hevick."

01:27:59 ◼   ► "Hef" and "hevick."

01:28:00 ◼   ► "Hef" is also—

01:28:01 ◼   ► "Hef"?

01:28:02 ◼   ► "Hef" or "hife," and "hevick" or "heevick."

01:28:06 ◼   ► "Hevick."

01:28:07 ◼   ► No, it's "heef."

01:28:09 ◼   ► "Heef."

01:28:10 ◼   ► Apple insists "heef."

01:28:11 ◼   ► That's what they say.

01:28:12 ◼   ► "Heef."

01:28:13 ◼   ► "Heef."

01:28:14 ◼   ► So, guess—sure.

01:28:15 ◼   ► And "hevc."

01:28:16 ◼   ► Read the letters.

01:28:17 ◼   ► Great.

01:28:18 ◼   ► letters.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Right. I go back to my English classes. Right? Heath. Heathcliff.

01:28:25 ◼   ► So yeah, that's me. Okay, so Heath and H-E-V-C.

01:28:28 ◼   ► It's like a Heath bar.

01:28:30 ◼   ► Okay. I don't know what they are, but...

01:28:33 ◼   ► You don't know what a Heath?

01:28:34 ◼   ► Nope.

01:28:35 ◼   ► Like, how about if you're out in the countryside on the Heath?

01:28:40 ◼   ► Yeah, like Heathcliff. It's in the mall. Anyway, Heath. Is it Heath? Heath, right? With an

01:28:46 ◼   ► F.

01:28:47 ◼   ► Heath.

01:28:48 ◼   ► Okay, so I'm pleased I asked this question because now Chris has a question about those.

01:28:55 ◼   ► Chris wants to know, Jason, can you please explain compatibility related to HEIF and

01:29:00 ◼   ► HEVC photos when sharing or backing up to a Mac or PC?

01:29:06 ◼   ► Boy, can I. I wrote a whole article in Macworld about it that I'll link in the show notes.

01:29:14 ◼   ► the device should detect what your compatibility is

01:29:19 ◼   ► with Heath and HEVC and will transcode on the fly.

01:29:28 ◼   ► So if you're using, if you're running Sierra

01:29:33 ◼   ► and you try to import photos shot on an iPhone 8

01:29:38 ◼   ► with HEVC and Heath, photos and videos,

01:29:41 ◼   ► when you download them, they will come out cross

01:29:44 ◼   ► as JPEGs and H.264s, and it will do the conversion for you.

01:29:49 ◼   ► And it's doing, there's a setting to turn that off

01:29:52 ◼   ► and give you your originals regardless,

01:29:56 ◼   ► but what it's going to try to do is be compatible.

01:29:59 ◼   ► So Apple wants this to be invisible.

01:30:02 ◼   ► If you're on a system that it knows,

01:30:04 ◼   ► 'cause it knows what it's connecting to,

01:30:06 ◼   ► this works for AirDrop too, and other sharing,

01:30:08 ◼   ► like if it knows for certain you can see a HEIF file,

01:30:12 ◼   ► it'll send you the HEIF file.

01:30:14 ◼   ► If it doesn't know for certain, it won't.

01:30:16 ◼   ► It'll send you a JPEG.

01:30:18 ◼   ► - With Photos app then, if I turn on Heath on my iPhone,

01:30:23 ◼   ► what does my Mac get on Sierra?

01:30:25 ◼   ► Like what does it get?

01:30:26 ◼   ► - It gets a preview image that's a JPEG

01:30:32 ◼   ► that I forget what they call that.

01:30:34 ◼   ► Apple has a word for it.

01:30:36 ◼   ► It's the derivative preview.

01:30:39 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:30:40 ◼   ► - It's not editable.

01:30:42 ◼   ► There'll be a little symbol when you go in to view it,

01:30:45 ◼   ► that a little alert symbol that says not editable,

01:30:49 ◼   ► and you can't edit it.

01:30:50 ◼   ► However, here's a cute thing that the Apple has done.

01:30:53 ◼   ► If every Mac attached to your Apple ID

01:31:00 ◼   ► is not yet on Hi Sierra,

01:31:08 ◼   ► it will just sync a compatible version instead.

01:31:13 ◼   ► - Oh, oh my God, that's so confusing though.

01:31:17 ◼   ► - Well, no, but it's confusing in the details,

01:31:19 ◼   ► but in life it should actually work okay.

01:31:23 ◼   ► And the idea here is if you don't have High Sierra yet,

01:31:26 ◼   ► it's not gonna sync High Sierra only files

01:31:29 ◼   ► to iCloud photo library

01:31:31 ◼   ► because it knows you can't do anything with them.

01:31:34 ◼   ► But if you do have a Mac running High Sierra,

01:31:36 ◼   ► one is all that's required, then it will.

01:31:39 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:31:40 ◼   ► - So it's trying to do its best to never send you something

01:31:43 ◼   ► you can't edit somewhere.

01:31:45 ◼   ► But yeah, if you've got a Mac,

01:31:47 ◼   ► like I've got my Mac that stores all my photos on it

01:31:51 ◼   ► and it's running Sierra.

01:31:52 ◼   ► And then I've got my iMac and it's running Hi Sierra.

01:31:55 ◼   ► And on the Hi Sierra Mac,

01:31:57 ◼   ► I can take those he files and I can edit them.

01:31:59 ◼   ► On the Mac that stores them, that's running Sierra,

01:32:02 ◼   ► it sees them, it will show me that preview,

01:32:05 ◼   ► but mark it as being uneditable.

01:32:08 ◼   ► It actually is, since it's set to download all the files,

01:32:10 ◼   ► it has downloaded that .heaf file in the background

01:32:13 ◼   ► and put it in its library,

01:32:15 ◼   ► but it can't do anything with it

01:32:16 ◼   ► 'cause it's an incompatible format.

01:32:18 ◼   ► So it's trying to do all the right things.

01:32:20 ◼   ► This is one of those cases where

01:32:22 ◼   ► I think if you don't pay attention to it, it's all fine.

01:32:26 ◼   ► But if you're one of those people,

01:32:28 ◼   ► and our listeners are these people

01:32:30 ◼   ► and we are these people who are like,

01:32:32 ◼   ► but wait, what about this?

01:32:33 ◼   ► What about that?

01:32:34 ◼   ► What about this?

01:32:35 ◼   ► about that, then it's like, "alright, let me explain what about all those things,"

01:32:37 ◼   ► but I think if you're not paying attention and you're just like "do do do do

01:32:40 ◼   ► take a picture, there it is," I think you won't notice it. I think it'll

01:32:44 ◼   ► just all kind of work right, because I think Apple's done a very good job of

01:32:47 ◼   ► trying to anticipate all of these things. If you're obsessed with never wanting

01:32:51 ◼   ► the transcoded versions, then yeah, you're going to want to either set the

01:32:54 ◼   ► setting that always transfers the originals, which is in the settings on iOS,

01:32:59 ◼   ► and you're going to want to update a Mac somewhere. If you use photos, you're going to

01:33:01 ◼   ► to want to update a Mac somewhere to High Sierra

01:33:03 ◼   ► just so that you can see those files.

01:33:04 ◼   ► 'Cause Apple has chosen, chosen, it's their choice,

01:33:08 ◼   ► not to do something to update Sierra

01:33:11 ◼   ► to support those file formats.

01:33:12 ◼   ► I'd imagine other apps will.

01:33:13 ◼   ► I'd imagine that like Acorn or Photoshop

01:33:16 ◼   ► or something like that will eventually support

01:33:18 ◼   ► those file formats and those might actually work on Sierra.

01:33:21 ◼   ► But Apple has said, "Nope, that's a High Sierra thing.

01:33:24 ◼   ► You gotta update in order to see it."

01:33:26 ◼   ► If you double click otherwise in the Finder

01:33:27 ◼   ► or do a quick look, it's just like not there.

01:33:29 ◼   ► It doesn't work.

01:33:31 ◼   ► Dylan asked, I don't have a 4K TV.

01:33:34 ◼   ► I have no plans to get one.

01:33:35 ◼   ► I currently have a third gen Apple TV.

01:33:37 ◼   ► Is there any reason not to just go get the fourth gen Apple TV?

01:33:40 ◼   ► So the fourth gen is not the 4K, right?

01:33:45 ◼   ► I'm thinking correctly in that one.

01:33:46 ◼   ► Fourth gen is the previous Apple TV, the one you can still buy that's cheaper.

01:33:51 ◼   ► I recommend getting that one.

01:33:53 ◼   ► If you have no plans to get a 4K TV,

01:33:56 ◼   ► the 4K Apple TV is useless to you.

01:34:01 ◼   ► - It'll be faster, but I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't.

01:34:04 ◼   ► Unless you plan to get one, right?

01:34:06 ◼   ► If you plan to get one in the next couple of years

01:34:07 ◼   ► and you need a new Apple TV now, then sure, get it,

01:34:10 ◼   ► and then you'll have it and it'll work with your new TV

01:34:13 ◼   ► when you buy it.

01:34:14 ◼   ► But if you have no plans to get a 4K TV,

01:34:17 ◼   ► then you don't need the 4K Apple TV.

01:34:19 ◼   ► - Okay, so that is #AskUpgrade for this week.

01:34:24 ◼   ► As I said, you can send in your questions to us

01:34:26 ◼   ► with the #AskUpgrade, and they go into another lovely sheet.

01:34:29 ◼   ► I have many sheets, they have many hashtags

01:34:31 ◼   ► that pull in lots of information,

01:34:33 ◼   ► and then we can answer your questions

01:34:36 ◼   ► on a future episode of the show.

01:34:39 ◼   ► At this point, we are going to fire off

01:34:41 ◼   ► the spoiler horn right now, I think.

01:34:44 ◼   ► I'm just gonna do it now for fun,

01:34:46 ◼   ► because after this break, we're gonna--

01:34:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, we have a break first.

01:34:49 ◼   ► - Well, I wanna fire it now.

01:34:51 ◼   ► - I have some real-time follow-up.

01:34:52 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:34:53 ◼   ► - From Joe Steele, who wants to,

01:34:54 ◼   ► it's a real-time correction for you,

01:34:55 ◼   ► they didn't lower the price of the old Apple TV,

01:34:57 ◼   ► it still costs what it costs,

01:34:58 ◼   ► just added a new 4K Apple TV that's more expensive.

01:35:00 ◼   ► - There you go.

01:35:01 ◼   ► There.

01:35:02 ◼   ► Interesting. - Thanks, Apple.

01:35:03 ◼   ► - Good to know.

01:35:04 ◼   ► Good to know.

01:35:04 ◼   ► So we're gonna talk about Encapsula now,

01:35:07 ◼   ► but then we have Terminator 2 with Myke at the movies.

01:35:10 ◼   ► So the spoiler home won't leave me in.

01:35:12 ◼   ► And I wanna take a moment to thank our friends

01:35:15 ◼   ► over at Encapsula for supporting this week's episode.

01:35:20 ◼   ► Encapsula have the website security tools

01:35:23 ◼   ► and content delivery network that you need

01:35:25 ◼   ► to make your website safer, faster and more reliable.

01:35:29 ◼   ► You need this stuff because websites can be attacked every single day. Criminals will

01:35:32 ◼   ► use botnets to scrape website content. They will try and smash into databases like a T1000

01:35:38 ◼   ► and bring sites down with denial of service attacks. Encapsular's network holds 3 terabits

01:35:44 ◼   ► per second of on-demand scrubbing capacity and can process 30 billion attacks per second.

01:35:50 ◼   ► This is why Encapsular's network has successfully defended some of the largest website attacks

01:35:56 ◼   ► on record.

01:35:58 ◼   ► If you're attacked, Encapsular's powerful CDN ensures that your content is delivered

01:36:02 ◼   ► to your customers fast.

01:36:03 ◼   ► You don't want people bailing on your site when they come to it, and with Encapsular

01:36:06 ◼   ► they wouldn't have to because no one would even know that something bad was happening.

01:36:10 ◼   ► And you can see any attacks as they're happening on the fly and adjust your security policies

01:36:14 ◼   ► along with them.

01:36:15 ◼   ► It's all in their wonderful dashboard that they have.

01:36:18 ◼   ► As a listener of this show you can get one whole month of service for free, just go to

01:36:22 ◼   ► encapsula.com/upgrade.

01:36:27 ◼   ► You'll find out more about Encapsula's service here and claim your free month as well.

01:36:31 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Encapsula for their support of this show and Relay FM.

01:36:36 ◼   ► Alright I need to get my other notebook now Jason because we're going to talk about Terminator

01:36:39 ◼   ► 2 Judgement Day.

01:36:44 ◼   ► Okay, do you wanna- I had some real difficulties today, Jason.

01:36:48 ◼   ► Yeah?

01:36:49 ◼   ► Couldn't find the movie.

01:36:50 ◼   ► Oh!

01:36:52 ◼   ► It's readily available on the US iTunes store.

01:36:55 ◼   ► Is it?

01:36:56 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:36:57 ◼   ► Like, have you checked within the last couple of days?

01:37:00 ◼   ► Because-

01:37:02 ◼   ► I literally like, bought it last week.

01:37:05 ◼   ► So frustrating. It's not on iTunes here, every other Terminator movie is.

01:37:08 ◼   ► I think I know why though, because it's just been in cinemas.

01:37:13 ◼   ► They did a 3D re-release of Terminator 2 at the end of August.

01:37:21 ◼   ► And I think that is why it has been, I was unable to find it to buy or stream anywhere

01:37:27 ◼   ► on the internet today.

01:37:29 ◼   ► There are three different versions of it available on the US iTunes store right now.

01:37:33 ◼   ► Absolutely nothing in the UK.

01:37:35 ◼   ► Every other Terminator movie is there except Terminator 2.

01:37:39 ◼   ► So I did some googling and unfortunately I had to come across some website that was just

01:37:43 ◼   ► streaming it. Like it was just there. There was nothing I could do because I had today

01:37:49 ◼   ► to watch the movie and I usually don't have a problem because we pick movies that are

01:37:53 ◼   ► like 20 or 30 years old so it tends to not be an issue. But it was an issue today so

01:37:59 ◼   ► I had to do that.

01:38:01 ◼   ► Casey List ended up coming through with a Plex version for me but I was already halfway

01:38:06 ◼   ► through movie at that point. This is a long movie. This is a longer movie than I was expecting.

01:38:10 ◼   ► So like two hours and 40 minutes. I was not expecting that.

01:38:13 ◼   ► Mm. There's a, I mean, there's a special edition that adds some scenes, which is maybe the

01:38:20 ◼   ► one that you got. Who knows, but I saw a movie that was like

01:38:23 ◼   ► two hours and something. It was two hours and change. Long movie.

01:38:27 ◼   ► Two, two and a half hours. Yeah. It's, that's too long. The regular edition is shorter.

01:38:31 ◼   ► Okay, well I saw this one for whatever. I will say that I really like this movie. It is

01:38:41 ◼   ► as big of an action blockbuster movie as you can get. It is petaled to the metal all the time

01:38:50 ◼   ► constantly for this movie. There are just huge car traces and explosions in the first 15 minutes.

01:38:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it has a huge opening and then it stops for a little while to get you the character and

01:39:02 ◼   ► like there's a whole section that is like characters and and all of that and then there's

01:39:09 ◼   ► the huge action piece at the end like it's interestingly structured in that way where it

01:39:13 ◼   ► really is just like huge action 25 minutes of characters or half an hour of characters and then

01:39:19 ◼   ► back to huge action for the rest of the movie. I will wonder though I wonder if you know we've

01:39:24 ◼   ► We've done these for quite a while now. We've watched many movies together but not together.

01:39:29 ◼   ► Can you guess the main thing that I didn't like about this movie?

01:39:34 ◼   ► Huh. The CGI Terminator?

01:39:42 ◼   ► No, actually, I thought the CGI was really good.

01:39:47 ◼   ► It is, and it's groundbreaking in its way.

01:39:49 ◼   ► Like really, really held up. And I was really pleased with that.

01:39:52 ◼   ► The kid?

01:39:53 ◼   ► Okay. Edward Furlong's performance as John Connor, I really didn't like it. I thought

01:39:59 ◼   ► it was a not good performance. I know that like child acting can always be difficult,

01:40:05 ◼   ► especially when they have a role which is as important to a movie as John Connor's role.

01:40:10 ◼   ► Like he is in basically every single scene, all of the important moments, like he is there.

01:40:17 ◼   ► I didn't like him. Like I just thought that he was an annoying kid. Yeah. When I'm thinking

01:40:23 ◼   ► I'm supposed to relate to him but I also just didn't like the performance. It took me out

01:40:31 ◼   ► of a few scenes, there were multiple instances where I'm like "this kid's really annoying"

01:40:35 ◼   ► like a scene which I expect is supposed to be like, you know, fantastic, the "Hasta la

01:40:39 ◼   ► vista" baby moment right when he teaches him that and it's like "oh my god this kid is

01:40:43 ◼   ► so annoying" like everything he's saying, the way he's saying it, like I didn't like

01:40:48 ◼   ► that I didn't like his performance but overall like I did I did think that this

01:40:53 ◼   ► was a great movie like this was what I was hoping it to be like this big action

01:40:57 ◼   ► movie there are just there are funny like I really love the way in a stupid

01:41:02 ◼   ► like in a really stupid way that they they set up why our needs now the hero

01:41:07 ◼   ► like it's so dumb I reprogram me like what more do you need I mean what I know

01:41:14 ◼   ► - I think the moment when James Cameron thought,

01:41:18 ◼   ► and presumably it was him or somebody told him either way,

01:41:21 ◼   ► like here's what we do in Terminator 2.

01:41:23 ◼   ► We send back a Terminator, the Terminator program

01:41:26 ◼   ► to save John Connor from a worst Terminator

01:41:29 ◼   ► who is now trying to come and kill him.

01:41:31 ◼   ► And like such a good idea

01:41:33 ◼   ► because that's what makes this movie work

01:41:35 ◼   ► is that now Schwarzenegger still the ruthless killing machine

01:41:39 ◼   ► but now he's got to take orders from John Connor.

01:41:43 ◼   ► And that leads to some great moments,

01:41:46 ◼   ► like he tells, John Connor realizes that,

01:41:50 ◼   ► the kid realizes he can give him orders, right?

01:41:52 ◼   ► Which is fun.

01:41:53 ◼   ► And he does terrible things with that momentarily

01:41:56 ◼   ► and causes those two guys who were trying to save him

01:41:59 ◼   ► to be horribly maimed.

01:42:01 ◼   ► That's a tough one.

01:42:02 ◼   ► But then it does lead to some amazing moments

01:42:06 ◼   ► where he's like, "No, you can't kill people."

01:42:07 ◼   ► And then he shoots people in the legs instead.

01:42:11 ◼   ► And he's like, "What are you doing?"

01:42:12 ◼   ► and he's just, "They'll live."

01:42:14 ◼   ► Just like, "Oh my God, no."

01:42:15 ◼   ► 'Cause he's still the Terminator, right?

01:42:17 ◼   ► He's still gonna try to kill people.

01:42:18 ◼   ► - I love, love the fact that the movie is this way

01:42:21 ◼   ► and that the Terminator's now a good guy.

01:42:24 ◼   ► But I really kinda just laughed

01:42:27 ◼   ► when the way that they just do of it.

01:42:28 ◼   ► Like, "Ah, reprogram me."

01:42:30 ◼   ► - He reprogrammed me.

01:42:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:42:32 ◼   ► - It really made, I was just like, "Okay."

01:42:34 ◼   ► I mean, that is the easiest way to get there.

01:42:36 ◼   ► But I thought it was very funny.

01:42:39 ◼   ► and like I wrote down in my notes "LOL merchandise" was what I wrote down.

01:42:44 ◼   ► The beginning of the movie is trying very hard to make you wonder like is

01:42:50 ◼   ► Schwarzenegger there to kill Hiddigan? Who's good, who's bad, right? Like I really like that

01:42:55 ◼   ► setup and I imagine if you don't know anything about this movie like especially

01:42:59 ◼   ► when it came out like that was a really tense moment like oh my gosh already

01:43:03 ◼   ► like he's already going to kill John Connor and I like the setup of that like

01:43:07 ◼   ► the whole thing of them meeting in the hallway, and then all of that was really good, and

01:43:11 ◼   ► I liked it.

01:43:12 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, and there's the, um, the action set piece in the mental institution is pretty

01:43:18 ◼   ► amazing. I mean, the one, there's the early one where he meets John where they're at the

01:43:23 ◼   ► mall and then they're going through, like, the LA River and all of that, that's pretty,

01:43:27 ◼   ► that's pretty good and fun with the motorcycles and the big rig and all of that, but for my

01:43:32 ◼   ► money the one that is the most amazing is the, at the mental institution because it's

01:43:36 ◼   ► the like multiple characters are doing multiple things. She's escaping, they're coming to the

01:43:43 ◼   ► institution, the bad Terminator is coming there, she's gotta make her escape, but then as soon as

01:43:50 ◼   ► she's going there she sees him, but then the bad Terminator is also there and then they have to run

01:43:56 ◼   ► and like and that goes on for a very long time and it's just all exciting and action-packed and

01:44:03 ◼   ► Just, uh, it's very well done. Incredibly well done.

01:44:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I really like the opening to this. I mean, of course, then it goes into, like, this

01:44:10 ◼   ► crazy, um, action sequence, right? The, um, what are they? Storm drains or something? What are they?

01:44:18 ◼   ► That's the LA River, believe it or not. That's what they call the LA River, but there's not much.

01:44:23 ◼   ► It's just concrete and all that. But that's where they're chasing. He gets out of the mall,

01:44:28 ◼   ► basically where he's at the arcade. Have you seen this boy? It's Robert Patrick. The movie that made

01:44:35 ◼   ► Robert Patrick famous as the evil Terminator and he does a good job. He's basically like your stock

01:44:41 ◼   ► policeman, evil policeman basically. I love that he keeps the police in uniform for the whole movie.

01:44:47 ◼   ► Right, like he can wear anything he wants but like just keeps the police. I mean I know that it makes

01:44:51 ◼   ► sense in a lot of scenarios to wear it but like when they're in like the warehouse at the end

01:44:56 ◼   ► right and it's just like they're all fighting it's like he's still wearing the policeman's

01:44:59 ◼   ► uniform which is like okay why not the uniform's part of him right that's one of the things that

01:45:04 ◼   ► i think is really smart and consistent about this movie is that he can't make machines so like he

01:45:09 ◼   ► has to he duplicates the security guard at the at the mental institution but he has to take his gun

01:45:16 ◼   ► and then he tries to go through the bars and the gun doesn't come through with him and he has to

01:45:20 ◼   ► like pull it through the bars instead it's like it's very consistent about the rules of like what

01:45:24 ◼   ► what the liquid metal Terminator can do and can't do.

01:45:27 ◼   ► Which I think is good, 'cause you wanna have--

01:45:29 ◼   ► - Right, but that's it, effectively.

01:45:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, and he can't fire from a distance.

01:45:33 ◼   ► If he wants to attack you from a distance,

01:45:35 ◼   ► he has to get a gun or something,

01:45:36 ◼   ► because he can't do that.

01:45:37 ◼   ► And that's, again, if you're gonna have

01:45:39 ◼   ► fantasy characters like this,

01:45:41 ◼   ► giving them some rules to follow is always really useful.

01:45:45 ◼   ► - And it's like the liquid metal that he's made of

01:45:48 ◼   ► is not regenerating.

01:45:49 ◼   ► Like if he loses some of it, he's lost some of it,

01:45:52 ◼   ► and he would be smaller.

01:45:53 ◼   ► Like you can't grow it.

01:45:55 ◼   ► - Well, right, so he has to go,

01:45:56 ◼   ► when they shoot part of him off,

01:45:58 ◼   ► it like bubbles back into his shoe at one point.

01:46:00 ◼   ► - He has to collect it.

01:46:00 ◼   ► - To get it back, yeah.

01:46:02 ◼   ► - Which sets up that scene later in the movie,

01:46:03 ◼   ► which is maybe my favorite special effects scene

01:46:06 ◼   ► when he's frozen in the liquid nitrogen

01:46:08 ◼   ► and he's like walking forward

01:46:09 ◼   ► and pieces have been breaking off.

01:46:11 ◼   ► It's like, I love that.

01:46:12 ◼   ► That was so cool. - Isn't that great?

01:46:13 ◼   ► - And then he's just getting shorter.

01:46:14 ◼   ► - And he's like, "Oh, we got him."

01:46:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:46:16 ◼   ► - And they shoot him and he breaks into pieces

01:46:18 ◼   ► and it's like, "Ah, we win."

01:46:19 ◼   ► And it's like, "Nope, he is falling."

01:46:21 ◼   ► This movie does suffer from that in the same way that the original Terminator does, in

01:46:27 ◼   ► the same way that a lot of superhero movies do, where it's like, how many times can you

01:46:32 ◼   ► kill the bad guy?

01:46:34 ◼   ► We can kill him like six times, but every time it just gets stronger.

01:46:39 ◼   ► That stuff gets a bit frustrating to me after a while, when they're in the 45 minutes that

01:46:45 ◼   ► they spend in the final scene, where it's just like they keep finding new ways to kill

01:46:50 ◼   ► both of them, right? Like, they terminate and get smashed to literal pieces. But oh,

01:46:54 ◼   ► he has a power reserve, right? And it's just like, how many times will these characters

01:46:59 ◼   ► die? Like, to be honest, I honestly thought that the end of the movie was gonna be like,

01:47:03 ◼   ► Shredder and Teenage Ninja Turtles type deal when he, like, his hand comes out of that

01:47:08 ◼   ► vat at the end is what I was expecting, right? Like, he was never dead at all and that's

01:47:12 ◼   ► how they set up the third one. Like, that was kind of what I was expecting to happen.

01:47:15 ◼   ► It's like that that stuff - it does grind on me a little bit, but I did like the the final action sequence more

01:47:22 ◼   ► In Terminator 2 than in the original Terminator

01:47:25 ◼   ► like yeah, it was it was there was just more stuff going on and Terminator vs. Terminator is

01:47:29 ◼   ► Intrinsically more interesting than Terminator vs. Human

01:47:33 ◼   ► Yeah, well it amps it up a little bit

01:47:36 ◼   ► Although they go back and forth right then he he starts to go for the people because he's incapacitated the Terminator

01:47:40 ◼   ► But then the Terminator, you know Schwarzenegger comes back

01:47:43 ◼   ► because he'll always be back.

01:47:45 ◼   ► And

01:47:47 ◼   ► yeah, that there's a lot of interesting stuff in there.

01:47:50 ◼   ► I do I do laugh at the ludicrousness of it of the setting where it's like first off

01:47:54 ◼   ► Convenient liquid nitrogen truck, right? Of course

01:47:56 ◼   ► It's a liquid nitrogen truck and then where are they they're in the steel mill where all the steel workers have run away

01:48:01 ◼   ► But they've left all of the equipment still going and moving and stuff

01:48:05 ◼   ► So that they can have a molten place in order to drop it

01:48:08 ◼   ► Although that one at least I kind of believe the Terminator was going toward that

01:48:12 ◼   ► he felt like that was that was his ultimate out was I need to go someplace

01:48:16 ◼   ► where I can melt down this guy and I so I'm willing to accept that but it's

01:48:20 ◼   ► still like you know so often the the climactic fight scene in a movie is set

01:48:26 ◼   ► in the steam factory where it's just like atmospheric and lots of equipment

01:48:31 ◼   ► and it doesn't really make sense that that's where they are but but still yeah

01:48:36 ◼   ► it's it's it's good I like this movie a lot I hadn't seen it in a while and

01:48:42 ◼   ► And this really was a definitive summer blockbuster

01:48:45 ◼   ► of whatever, 1991, I think.

01:48:48 ◼   ► It is a definitive, like this was huge

01:48:53 ◼   ► and nobody had seen the first movie, right?

01:48:55 ◼   ► Everybody saw this first.

01:48:57 ◼   ► First movie was very obscure and this was a gigantic,

01:49:00 ◼   ► everybody saw "The Terminator 2" in 1991.

01:49:04 ◼   ► And the CGI is really good of the metal Terminator.

01:49:08 ◼   ► They leaned into the fact that they couldn't really

01:49:10 ◼   ► textures in CGI very well, so he doesn't have textures. He's like a silver blob. It's like

01:49:16 ◼   ► perfect. It's exactly what they were capable of doing, so they have him be a murderous

01:49:20 ◼   ► silver blob. And he's scary, right? He doesn't really talk other than to get questions and

01:49:25 ◼   ► information, and he seems indestructible, like you can fire bullets and shotguns at him,

01:49:31 ◼   ► and he just kind of reforms, and so the whole movie he just brings menace. If he finds you,

01:49:36 ◼   ► how do you even get away from him? And that I think that's really powerful too.

01:49:40 ◼   ► And I really like the time travel part of this too. I'm wondering, since you like Back to the

01:49:44 ◼   ► Future so much, I really like how they go, they find the guy who invented Skynet who doesn't

01:49:49 ◼   ► realize that he's doing it, and they go to his house basically, and Sarah Connor terrorizes him,

01:49:56 ◼   ► and then the Terminator and John have to stop her. But I like that whole part of the story,

01:50:05 ◼   ► that they find the creator. And did you notice the bootstrap paradox? It's one of the best things in

01:50:10 ◼   ► this movie too is the Terminator, Skynet is created because of the piece of hardware that the original

01:50:17 ◼   ► Terminator left behind which was sent from Skynet. So it's a completely circular story which I just,

01:50:24 ◼   ► I mean, I love it. It doesn't make any sense. I love it. Yeah, I like it but it is silly.

01:50:30 ◼   ► Those sort of time travel things are frustrating,

01:50:34 ◼   ► but they can be really,

01:50:36 ◼   ► like I think it's well done here,

01:50:37 ◼   ► but just like that conceit is frustrating,

01:50:40 ◼   ► that like something didn't exist,

01:50:41 ◼   ► but it exists because it existed, but nobody made it.

01:50:44 ◼   ► It's like, I don't, it's very,

01:50:46 ◼   ► it sends you through a loop, right?

01:50:48 ◼   ► Because it's like how was he there in the first movie?

01:50:51 ◼   ► - That's right.

01:50:52 ◼   ► - Right, like it's very confusing, but it's good.

01:50:55 ◼   ► There was a little bit of exposition about all of that,

01:50:57 ◼   ► which just gets a bit difficult at points.

01:51:01 ◼   ► - Yeah. - 'Cause it's like sometimes

01:51:02 ◼   ► in trying to explain it,

01:51:04 ◼   ► you actually make it more confusing.

01:51:06 ◼   ► (both laughing)

01:51:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I like that, I like Dyson.

01:51:10 ◼   ► That is a good character that the guy,

01:51:13 ◼   ► Joe Morton who plays Dyson, he's really likable.

01:51:15 ◼   ► He doesn't do what a lot of scientists do

01:51:17 ◼   ► in movies like this,

01:51:19 ◼   ► which is when you reveal that he is in the future,

01:51:21 ◼   ► his thing that he's creating is going to,

01:51:26 ◼   ► is gonna be, just gonna destroy the world.

01:51:28 ◼   ► They tend to be like mad scientists

01:51:31 ◼   ► who are evil themselves,

01:51:32 ◼   ► and they know that their thing is evil

01:51:34 ◼   ► because they're evil and they will fight you.

01:51:36 ◼   ► And in this movie, first off,

01:51:37 ◼   ► he's portrayed as human the whole way.

01:51:39 ◼   ► He's obsessed, he's got a wife, he's got kids,

01:51:41 ◼   ► he needs to take them to the water park.

01:51:44 ◼   ► It's quite horrifying when Sarah goes there.

01:51:46 ◼   ► I wanna talk about that more in a second,

01:51:48 ◼   ► but when she goes there and shoots him

01:51:50 ◼   ► and is trying to kill him

01:51:51 ◼   ► and the kids are trying to protect him,

01:51:52 ◼   ► it's like very human portrayal of him.

01:51:53 ◼   ► And when they sit him down, and there's that scene with a voiceover where they say,

01:51:57 ◼   ► "We told him what was going to happen," he's very upset, and then his response is,

01:52:02 ◼   ► "Let's destroy my life's work. We can't let this happen." And I love that. He's in, and in the end,

01:52:08 ◼   ► he sacrifices himself to ensure that the—after he's shot many times, he's probably going to die

01:52:14 ◼   ► anyway—but he makes sure that his entire life's work is blown up so that this armageddon doesn't

01:52:22 ◼   ► come to pass. And I don't know, I felt like that's pretty rare for that kind of scientist character.

01:52:26 ◼   ► Usually they're portrayed as being bad in some way, fundamentally bad, and he's a decent guy

01:52:32 ◼   ► who didn't know what he was doing when he was making this stuff or didn't think about it.

01:52:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, I wanted to, before we get to that part, I want to talk about Sarah for a moment.

01:52:42 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:52:44 ◼   ► - Because they do something with her that I really like and I thought they were gonna screw up,

01:52:49 ◼   ► which is the way she deals with and relates to Arnold Schwarzenegger to

01:52:57 ◼   ► terminate him. So first off when she first sees him she just loses her mind

01:53:01 ◼   ► right which is like the right way to do it because the last time she had seen

01:53:05 ◼   ► this person this person was trying to kill her and

01:53:09 ◼   ► has sent her into a mental like into a psychiatric

01:53:12 ◼   ► hospital like she is there because of everything

01:53:16 ◼   ► that happened because naturally nobody will believe

01:53:18 ◼   ► her right because the government has covered it up and no one is you know and

01:53:22 ◼   ► these two agencies are not related in any way right like they just think that

01:53:26 ◼   ► she has lost her mind and is saying all this stuff and etc etc but then like the

01:53:33 ◼   ► the risk is like oh okay so they have she's been saved by the Terminator she's

01:53:39 ◼   ► now gonna love the Terminator but no she tries to kill him right she tries to

01:53:43 ◼   ► destroy the computer chip yeah which is a cutscene that's not in the special

01:53:48 ◼   ► Edition. Oh, okay. But it's in the special edition. It's not in the original where she's

01:53:54 ◼   ► going to smash the computer chip and all of that. I like that scene because it furthers

01:53:59 ◼   ► her character and also something that I really noticed this time that I guess I've noticed

01:54:02 ◼   ► in the past but I really noticed this time is this movie does something really interesting

01:54:06 ◼   ► with Sarah. She is really broken. She is unsurprisingly right but she's really broken. She spent her

01:54:12 ◼   ► time with the survivalists. She got institutionalized. She's been away from her son. She's had her

01:54:17 ◼   ► whole life uprooted if you think back to that waitress in the beginning of the first movie.

01:54:22 ◼   ► She is now a lean, mean fighting machine, right? And she's obsessed with Armageddon,

01:54:27 ◼   ► she has visions, she has dreams of the end of the world, and she's got to try to protect

01:54:31 ◼   ► her son and save the world, and she's been institutionalized. Like, she's messed up.

01:54:37 ◼   ► And what I really like is, I don't love Edward Furlong's performance, but I like him later

01:54:42 ◼   ► in the movie when he's put in opposition to Sarah, and I like what they do with a character

01:54:47 ◼   ► especially, where he's the grown-up. Like, he's showing that he's a leader. And in that

01:54:53 ◼   ► scene, which is cut from the original movie but is restored in the special edition, he

01:54:57 ◼   ► basically says, "You say I'm going to be this great leader in the future and you won't listen

01:55:02 ◼   ► to me now? We need him." And he's been spending time with the Terminator and knows that he

01:55:07 ◼   ► is a valuable ally and she's just blinded with her rage about the last movie basically and all

01:55:13 ◼   ► of everything that's transpired since then and he's the grown-up. She's just an agent of destruction

01:55:19 ◼   ► at that point because her life has been so messed up by what's happened and he's the one who is

01:55:24 ◼   ► going to it's very clear in that moment he's the one who's growing up and becoming a leader and

01:55:29 ◼   ► is going to save the world and needs to be saved and I really like that. I really like that Sarah

01:55:35 ◼   ► Sarah doesn't get broken out and become the superhero

01:55:39 ◼   ► who can save her son with the help of the Terminator.

01:55:41 ◼   ► She's an action hero here too, but she's the action part.

01:55:45 ◼   ► And the kind of more grown-up decision-making part

01:55:50 ◼   ► is her son, is John, which is,

01:55:52 ◼   ► you gotta see a flash of that, right?

01:55:54 ◼   ► If he's just a dumb kid,

01:55:56 ◼   ► then why is he gonna grow up to be a leader?

01:55:58 ◼   ► And I think in those scenes with his mom,

01:56:00 ◼   ► when they go and they stop her from killing Dyson,

01:56:03 ◼   ► you're seeing him being the grown-up,

01:56:06 ◼   ► because she's just so bent on violence

01:56:09 ◼   ► and revenge and protection and all of that,

01:56:11 ◼   ► that she's not thinking as clearly as he is.

01:56:15 ◼   ► So I like that scene where she's gonna smash the CPU

01:56:19 ◼   ► of the Terminator, and I really like

01:56:22 ◼   ► that Jon talks her out of it.

01:56:23 ◼   ► In the original version, he just says,

01:56:26 ◼   ► 'cause they're supposed to turn on his learning.

01:56:28 ◼   ► In the original version, he says,

01:56:29 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, but yes, I can learn."

01:56:32 ◼   ► And the special edition is like, no, I can't, they turn,

01:56:34 ◼   ► they turn the learning off and they have to take the chip out and turn the

01:56:37 ◼   ► learning on. And then he starts to learn the

01:56:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. Like I liked that scene.

01:56:42 ◼   ► I'm pleased it was there. Cause if I wasn't in the scene,

01:56:44 ◼   ► that scene would have been frustrated by like,

01:56:46 ◼   ► she just is totally okay with him. Right? Like I feel like it needed that,

01:56:51 ◼   ► like for like just a furthering of the idea that she doesn't trust him because

01:56:57 ◼   ► she shouldn't because that's, it's like, is the same person,

01:57:01 ◼   ► isn't the same person right time wibbly wobbly timey wimey but like she doesn't

01:57:05 ◼   ► see it any other way right she's she all she knows is like she had to watch that

01:57:10 ◼   ► face be crushed in a you know hydraulic press it seemed like he wouldn't die and

01:57:15 ◼   ► now he's back right just run that a logical standpoint like oh no he's back

01:57:19 ◼   ► how does he back I thought I destroyed him yeah and like now he's out skin on

01:57:22 ◼   ► him again right like she should she should hate him and so she never really

01:57:27 ◼   ► seems to reconcile it, which I like. Like even at the end.

01:57:31 ◼   ► Until the end.

01:57:32 ◼   ► She doesn't super-protest it, though, right?

01:57:36 ◼   ► Well, I view that she comes to respect him as like her. She's a Terminator, right? For

01:57:45 ◼   ► a cause. Her life has narrowed down to, she's an expert with weapons, she can get all these