Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 169. Today's show is brought to you by Balance Open,

00:00:15 ◼   ► text expander from Smile, and Encapsula. My name is Myke Hurley, I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hello, Mr. Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hi, Mr. Jason Snell, I'm very well, I'm very well.

00:00:27 ◼   ► How is your Cyber Monday going? Because, you know, it's Cyber Monday and people, the history,

00:00:32 ◼   ► there's a long history of Cyber Monday. Jason, Jason, Jason, Jason, nobody,

00:00:36 ◼   ► everybody cares about Black Friday. Nobody cares about Cyber Monday. And it is time

00:00:42 ◼   ► for a return for me asking you questions in #SnailTalk.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Yeah. You know, we did it last week. We did it last week without you. It was weird because I had

00:00:51 ◼   ► to ask Jon a question. It was strange. It was good though. Fun episode. Thank you to

00:00:54 ◼   ► Thank you to Mr. Syracuse for filling in for me. But Rob asked the question of you, Jason,

00:00:59 ◼   ► what privacy settings do you use? Jason, when Apple asks you to help improve their products

00:01:05 ◼   ► and services by sending them data, do you say yes?

00:01:09 ◼   ► It depends entirely on the mood that I'm in.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Oh really? Okay.

00:01:13 ◼   ► I generally say yes. Sometimes I'm setting up a device and it's meant to not live very

00:01:19 ◼   ► long and it's just for referencing or testing or something like that and sometimes I'll

00:01:23 ◼   ► say no and just be spiteful but generally I say yes because I think it's helpful to

00:01:27 ◼   ► Apple and app developers to get that, you know, crash reports and stuff like that especially.

00:01:32 ◼   ► I think that's maybe useful and so I don't have a problem with it. I'm not talking to

00:01:39 ◼   ► you now from underneath my tinfoil hat so I would say I say yes.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Interesting. What about the else third-party developers? Do you do the same?

00:01:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:49 ◼   ► always say just yes. Like, I mean, what's the harm, really? Like, what's the harm? I

00:01:54 ◼   ► just say yes.

00:01:55 ◼   ► If a credible report came out that that information was being used for evil rather than good,

00:02:00 ◼   ► or was a potential, you know, major security hole or something, etc., etc., I would consider

00:02:05 ◼   ► not, but I have not seen anything that suggests that. And we know those third-party developers,

00:02:10 ◼   ► right? We know a lot of those people. I definitely want to share that information with them so

00:02:13 ◼   ► that they can, if it's useful. And I don't think it's harmful to share it, and it might

00:02:18 ◼   ► be useful. So, yeah.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Thank you Rob for your question. If you would like to ask us a question to open the show,

00:02:25 ◼   ► just send a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk. It will go into a document for me to pull

00:02:30 ◼   ► out later on. And then you can help us introduce a future episode in fun and exciting fashion.

00:02:37 ◼   ► Talking about fun and exciting.

00:02:39 ◼   ► Ah.

00:02:40 ◼   ► It is that time of year. We are reaching the end of the year and on this show...

00:02:44 ◼   ► Winter of fun!

00:02:45 ◼   ► No, it does not the winter of fun.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:02:48 ◼   ► something much more prestigious than that. Oh thank goodness I was I was

00:02:52 ◼   ► worried that we were gonna be slumming it with immediately ripping off the

00:02:56 ◼   ► Summer of Fun with the Winter of Fun. We don't need to worry about that we're

00:02:59 ◼   ► going to be doing the fourth annual Upgradies Awards. So that's coming we're

00:03:06 ◼   ► actually going to be releasing the episode on January the 1st so you have a

00:03:11 ◼   ► treat to look forward to on New Year's Day. Yeah we have the fortunate as a as a

00:03:17 ◼   ► Monday releasing podcast, we are releasing episodes on Christmas Day and on New Year's

00:03:22 ◼   ► Day. But what better, we debated this, we talked about this for a while, what better

00:03:28 ◼   ► way to cap off the year and start the new year than with the Upgradies? There's no better

00:03:33 ◼   ► way. It's like it makes, it allows us to wrap up 17 and move into 18. It's a perfect time.

00:03:39 ◼   ► If you are new to the show, the Upgradies Awards, we have done this every year for,

00:03:45 ◼   ► This will be our fourth year and we basically sit down and we talk about some of our favorite

00:03:50 ◼   ► things of the year, some of our favorite things of all time and we hand out awards.

00:03:55 ◼   ► If you are familiar with the Eddie Awards from Macworld, I think we took some inspiration

00:04:02 ◼   ► from there and we should carry on and improve and make a much better tradition and we did

00:04:09 ◼   ► with the Upgradies, which is the most prestigious award that anybody can win within a year.

00:04:13 ◼   ► If you've never heard an Upgradies Award episode, I will include a link in the show notes to

00:04:18 ◼   ► the 2016 Upgradies, but we are of course talking about the 2017 Upgradies.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Because all great traditions, they should be changed over time.

00:04:28 ◼   ► We are going to be slightly improving, I believe, the way that we're going to be doing the Upgradies.

00:04:34 ◼   ► So last year...

00:04:35 ◼   ► That's the way to say it, by the way.

00:04:37 ◼   ► Like all great traditions, it's improved over time.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Because change is terrible, but oh, improved.

00:04:43 ◼   ► I like it, it's improved every time.

00:04:45 ◼   ► All game conditions are improved, including the upgradees.

00:04:47 ◼   ► So last year we did something different.

00:04:48 ◼   ► So in the first two years, me and Jason decided all of the nominees and then we decided to

00:04:52 ◼   ► do all of the winners.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Last year, we looked to our upgrade-ians for some assistance and we put out a Google form

00:04:58 ◼   ► for people to vote to help us, like we still provide all the nominees and ask people to

00:05:04 ◼   ► cast their votes to help us pick a winner.

00:05:06 ◼   ► We've decided to do something I think a little bit more ambitious this year.

00:05:10 ◼   ► not going to be picking nominees this time. Me and Jason will be coming to the

00:05:15 ◼   ► awards with our own thoughts about who we think should win, but we want your

00:05:20 ◼   ► help more than ever. So we're going to be including in the show notes a link to a

00:05:24 ◼   ► Google voting form. So a Google form where you can go in and you can cast

00:05:28 ◼   ► your vote for anything in any of the categories. You just tell us. So if you

00:05:33 ◼   ► have a favorite podcast, instead of choosing it from a list or hoping that

00:05:36 ◼   ► we may have shortlisted your favorite podcast, this time you just type it in

00:05:40 ◼   ► in and send it off. You can fill in all of the questions, you can fill in a subset of

00:05:44 ◼   ► the questions, it's completely up to you. Go in, tell us your favourites. All of the

00:05:48 ◼   ► questions are there from all of our previous categories, we're keeping all the categories

00:05:53 ◼   ► so we can keep things going, but we have two lifetime achievement awards that we're going

00:05:58 ◼   ► to be giving out this year. So both ATP and the Flop House have won in their categories,

00:06:06 ◼   ► which is best tech podcast and best overall, like kind of best non tech podcast. They have

00:06:12 ◼   ► won those three years in a row. So they will not be able to win that award this year. So

00:06:17 ◼   ► don't vote for them. It will be a wasted vote for you. We will be giving them as part of

00:06:22 ◼   ► the proceedings, their lifetime achievement awards, because otherwise they may continue

00:06:26 ◼   ► to win the upgrade forever. And we don't think that that's fair, right, Jason? I feel like

00:06:31 ◼   ► you got to retire it. If you get three in a row, you got to retire it. They will be

00:06:34 ◼   ► put into the hall of fame! Yeah that's it that's right there are all-time all-time winners in the

00:06:39 ◼   ► hall of fame. So go in take a look uh cast your votes the voting is only open until the 14th of

00:06:47 ◼   ► December because we're going to be pre-recording the episode so we can make it all nice for you

00:06:52 ◼   ► so you have until December the 14th to cast your votes please go and look take a look in our show

00:06:58 ◼   ► notes if you don't see them in your podcast app of choice you'll find them at relay.fm/upgrades/169

00:07:04 ◼   ► where you can find the Google form go and fill it out and you can help us award

00:07:09 ◼   ► your favorite things of the year. Whilst you're over looking in our show notes we

00:07:15 ◼   ► have merchandise available this is this is a real like a real real kick today

00:07:20 ◼   ► through the beginning of the show we have merch available the merchandise is

00:07:24 ◼   ► available only until the end of this week until December the 3rd. Jason spoke

00:07:28 ◼   ► about it last week I just wanted to mention once more what we have because

00:07:32 ◼   ► it's amazing stuff. We have our hoodie which has the awesome upgrade patch and the upgrading

00:07:37 ◼   ► secret seal printed on the inside. These hoodies are amazing, I wear mine all the time. There's

00:07:43 ◼   ► also the upgrade logo t-shirt which we put on sale last year. If you do not have the

00:07:49 ◼   ► black on black from cotton bureau you should get it. It is a black t-shirt with a black

00:07:54 ◼   ► foil upgrade logo on the front. I love it, it's maybe one of my favorite t-shirts that

00:08:01 ◼   ► I own I've actually bought just another one this year because I just want to make sure

00:08:04 ◼   ► I have another one. The reason I'm mentioning all of this from

00:08:07 ◼   ► Cotton Bureau is their shipping right now is cheaper than it's ever been. So if you

00:08:11 ◼   ► live outside of the US you'll be able to get this for much cheaper because those two products

00:08:17 ◼   ► they're exclusive to Cotton Bureau because we've had to do some funny stuff and they're

00:08:21 ◼   ► willing to work with us on that to make these two things available. So go to cotton, the

00:08:25 ◼   ► links will be in the show notes, go to the Cotton Bureau site see how much the shipping

00:08:28 ◼   ► is to you. I looked for me and it was exactly within the realm of what I want to pay. It's

00:08:33 ◼   ► a $6 shipping on the t-shirt which I was totally fine with. That's kind of what I'm willing

00:08:37 ◼   ► to pay. But it was previously quite high before. If it is still difficult for you, we do have

00:08:43 ◼   ► a Teespring t-shirt available. I think it's just red and grey. We'll put links to that

00:08:48 ◼   ► in the show notes as well in case the cotton bureau shipping is still not to your liking.

00:08:52 ◼   ► But it is way better so if you've missed it in the past or skipped it in the past because

00:08:56 ◼   ► of high shipping costs, go and take a look and you can get either the hoodie or the logo

00:09:00 ◼   ► t-shirt from Cotton Bureau. They are both incredible. All of the Cotton Bureau t-shirts

00:09:04 ◼   ► have a foil logo rather than just a screen print. They look really amazing. Sales are

00:09:10 ◼   ► open only until December 3rd. So if you think you might want one of these, go and order

00:09:14 ◼   ► now because it's ending this week. This is your last warning.

00:09:19 ◼   ► I love that t-shirt. Love that t-shirt.

00:09:21 ◼   ► I'm wearing it now, Myke. I'm wearing it right now.

00:09:23 ◼   ► It's so good, right?

00:09:24 ◼   ► to start my week on brand.

00:09:25 ◼   ► - Great. - It is good.

00:09:26 ◼   ► It is good.

00:09:27 ◼   ► We didn't do the brain ball this time,

00:09:28 ◼   ► but maybe the brain ball will return

00:09:30 ◼   ► at some point in the future.

00:09:30 ◼   ► It's a less popular shirt. - I think it's only me

00:09:31 ◼   ► and you that like that.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Like, I don't know.

00:09:33 ◼   ► - Well, we've made our order number

00:09:35 ◼   ► and you don't have to sell a lot of them.

00:09:36 ◼   ► So we may bring it back at some point.

00:09:38 ◼   ► I love it, but yeah, it may just be you and me.

00:09:41 ◼   ► But I wear those all the time.

00:09:42 ◼   ► So when mine get worn out,

00:09:44 ◼   ► we'll make some more for you and me

00:09:47 ◼   ► and anyone else who wants a brain ball shirt.

00:09:48 ◼   ► - Yep, I wear mine a lot and I love it,

00:09:52 ◼   ► But I think a large--

00:09:54 ◼   ► Oh, I actually, when I was going to the US,

00:09:56 ◼   ► I just came back from a trip.

00:09:58 ◼   ► I was talking to the very friendly person

00:10:02 ◼   ► at customs in the US.

00:10:05 ◼   ► And he was asking me some questions.

00:10:08 ◼   ► And he said to me, "What's brain ball?"

00:10:10 ◼   ► [LAUGHS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► What's brain ball?

00:10:13 ◼   ► He said, "What's brain ball?"

00:10:15 ◼   ► I hope you told him the good news about brain ball.

00:10:17 ◼   ► So I said, oh, it's a joke t-shirt.

00:10:19 ◼   ► It's about, you know, for people that don't like sports, and it's kind of like a joke,

00:10:28 ◼   ► and he's like, "I don't like sports very much anymore. My betting book hasn't been going

00:10:32 ◼   ► too well." And I was like, "Ah! I didn't really know where to go with any of this,

00:10:37 ◼   ► Jason."

00:10:38 ◼   ► That's right. There's no betting in brainball.

00:10:40 ◼   ► No, there's no betting in brainball.

00:10:42 ◼   ► No. The commissioner doesn't allow it. It's not allowed. Hey, I had some follow-up. People

00:10:49 ◼   ► may have noticed, you may have noticed as a listener, you were an upgrade listener last

00:10:53 ◼   ► week.

00:10:54 ◼   ► >> I was an upgrade-ian last week, it was lovely.

00:10:55 ◼   ► >> How was that?

00:10:56 ◼   ► >> It was great, I love being an upgrade-ian.

00:10:57 ◼   ► >> It's fun, it's a little different.

00:11:00 ◼   ► So we, so John Siracusa, very, very nice to have John Siracusa on, he went on a little

00:11:08 ◼   ► bit of a rant, as he does, which is why we love him, about voice interfaces.

00:11:13 ◼   ► And it was only after he had said the key phrase like 10 times that he realized he had

00:11:20 ◼   ► said it a bunch of times and said, "I'm probably setting off everybody's devices right now."

00:11:26 ◼   ► And I thought to myself, "Yeah, you probably are. What am I going to do?" Now, I thought

00:11:30 ◼   ► I could leave it because Apple has said, "Oh, well, now you go through this coaching and

00:11:35 ◼   ► you tell some key phrases to the voice assistant and then it's supposed to be more locked in

00:11:40 ◼   ► on your voice. And I have found in my house that that is generally true. Although I will

00:11:45 ◼   ► point out that at least one time, one of those things that I bleeped out was an Amazon Echo

00:11:54 ◼   ► active word, not an iPhone active word. So I bleeped them all. I decided to bleep them

00:12:01 ◼   ► all and I thought I could beep it out. But what we usually do and what we've established

00:12:06 ◼   ► on this show is that we say ahoy telephone.

00:12:07 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** Ahoy telephone.

00:12:08 ◼   ► And I thought it would be fun if I could find you who was not on the episode saying Ahoy

00:12:15 ◼   ► telephone somewhere.

00:12:16 ◼   ► And so what I did is I went back to the archive to I believe episode five.

00:12:20 ◼   ► Wow, really?

00:12:23 ◼   ► And I found the first time you ever said Ahoy telephone.

00:12:30 ◼   ► And that's the bleep with a little echo, a little reverb in there and all that.

00:12:34 ◼   ► That's the sound that I used as the beep.

00:12:36 ◼   ► know, I heard from a few people who thought it was really weird, and then I heard from

00:12:41 ◼   ► a bunch of people who probably thought it was really weird, but enjoyed it. So, yeah.

00:12:47 ◼   ► So Myke clipped out of episode five used in, and the reason I did it, in the end I decided

00:12:53 ◼   ► to do it because I thought, well, it'll be funny, and also I don't want to set off people's

00:12:57 ◼   ► devices. But when everybody said, well, you know, Apple says that you don't have a problem

00:13:02 ◼   ► with Ahoy! telephone anymore. I was sitting here editing and when I edit, I mean we do

00:13:07 ◼   ► the show and I'm wearing headphones, but when I edit I just have it going through my speakers,

00:13:11 ◼   ► my iPod Hi-Fi actually, and I had my iPhone X sitting here and I was editing that part

00:13:16 ◼   ► and I swear John's voice set off my phone like five times at least. I kept, I'm editing

00:13:22 ◼   ► that segment and my phone keeps going off and Siri is beginning to transcribe the words

00:13:28 ◼   ► John is saying, and I'm like, stop, stop, stop.

00:13:31 ◼   ► So maybe it's the timbre of his voice and my voice

00:13:33 ◼   ► are close enough that it wasn't able to differentiate

00:13:36 ◼   ► or whatever, but what I'm saying is,

00:13:38 ◼   ► this is why I bleeped it out, is because I saw it in action.

00:13:42 ◼   ► It was absolutely happening.

00:13:44 ◼   ► And I feel like it's still kind of good manners to avoid it

00:13:48 ◼   ► because it can be a really disruptive experience,

00:13:50 ◼   ► especially if it triggers the device

00:13:53 ◼   ► that you're listening to your podcast on.

00:13:55 ◼   ► So for all of these reasons,

00:13:58 ◼   ► the original, you get to flashback to episode five

00:14:00 ◼   ► and Myke's original, that's actually when you picked

00:14:03 ◼   ► which one it was gonna be,

00:14:04 ◼   ► 'cause I listened back to episode five

00:14:06 ◼   ► and we had two, we had hello computer,

00:14:09 ◼   ► which is like what Scotty says in Star Trek IV

00:14:11 ◼   ► when he picks up the mouse

00:14:12 ◼   ► and tries to talk to the Macintosh, hello computer.

00:14:15 ◼   ► And we had a Hoy telephone and you said,

00:14:17 ◼   ► you know the one I like is a Hoy telephone

00:14:20 ◼   ► and that's what I used, so there you go.

00:14:23 ◼   ► - Because-- - A lot of great history.

00:14:25 ◼   ► - If we're gonna pull back the curtain a little bit,

00:14:27 ◼   ► Jason sent me a message on Slack and he's like,

00:14:30 ◼   ► can I get a recording of you saying,

00:14:32 ◼   ► oh hi telephone, to which I replied, no.

00:14:37 ◼   ► All I can do is record it through my iPhone.

00:14:40 ◼   ► And he was like, that will not do.

00:14:41 ◼   ► And then Jason went mining through the episodes.

00:14:44 ◼   ► - I thought about asking you to just use a voice recorder

00:14:46 ◼   ► on your iPhone and send it to me.

00:14:48 ◼   ► And I thought, you know what?

00:14:49 ◼   ► He said this in a million different episodes.

00:14:51 ◼   ► I'm sure I can dig it up.

00:14:53 ◼   ► And of course I need to pick my mother up at the airport

00:14:55 ◼   ► because she was coming in for Thanksgiving.

00:14:57 ◼   ► And I had expected to have a lot of time

00:15:00 ◼   ► in between doing upgrade and having to leave

00:15:03 ◼   ► to pick her up at the airport.

00:15:04 ◼   ► And as it was, I got to the airport like two minutes

00:15:08 ◼   ► before she landed or before she was ready to be picked up.

00:15:11 ◼   ► And I had no time because I spent extra time

00:15:15 ◼   ► editing the episode, which I have to do anyway.

00:15:17 ◼   ► But then I also spent time dipping into the archives

00:15:19 ◼   ► to find a Hoy telephone and dropping it in

00:15:22 ◼   ► in all of the places, plus dropping in that the music cue, which those who listened to

00:15:27 ◼   ► the edited episode and didn't listen live, literally what happens is I say this line

00:15:31 ◼   ► that's basically an Eric Clapton line from a song and he says, "Oh, you should put in

00:15:35 ◼   ► the music from that song there." And I didn't even know the song. I was like, "Okay." And

00:15:38 ◼   ► then I went back later and I was like, "Oh, I see what John's doing." And I put it in

00:15:41 ◼   ► because I do whatever John says. There's an episode of The Uncomfortable where there are

00:15:44 ◼   ► all these clips that it's literally John saying, "Oh, you should put a clip in there." And I'm

00:15:49 ◼   ► like, "All right, Jon, I'll do whatever Jon Syracuse tells me to do. It's how I live my

00:15:54 ◼   ► life."

00:15:55 ◼   ► I did have a funny thing where you did some really fun things in that episode with the

00:15:59 ◼   ► audio. Steven did some really fun things in Connected, and I missed them both because

00:16:03 ◼   ► I was on vacation. But I still had people tweeting to me to say how good a job I did.

00:16:08 ◼   ► And there was something that I quite liked about the thought of that I'm not on the episode.

00:16:14 ◼   ► People were referring to the fact that I'm away, but they still think that I'm editing

00:16:17 ◼   ► it anyway, that put a smile on my face. It's like, nope, nope, I don't do that, like,

00:16:23 ◼   ► that's, you guys take care of that for me too when I'm away.

00:16:27 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, no, it's, which is, which is, I mean, that's, yeah, that's the truth

00:16:30 ◼   ► of it is, we don't have credits, it's not like, like an NPR kind of podcast where it's

00:16:36 ◼   ► an "the upgrade program was edited by Myke Hurley."

00:16:40 ◼   ► Right? We don't, we both did the same thing.

00:16:43 ◼   ► Maybe we should do that! Maybe we'll start doing that.

00:16:45 ◼   ► Like, as the credits roll, we can do a longer roll out of the upgrade theme, and they'll

00:16:49 ◼   ► say, "Upgrade just presents a different week by Myke Hurley and Jason Stell."

00:16:53 ◼   ► You can just let it run, you know?

00:16:55 ◼   ► Executive Producers Myke Hurley and Jason Stell.

00:16:56 ◼   ► This episode edited by Myke Hurley.

00:16:59 ◼   ► But you usually do edit upgrade.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I usually edit download, but sometimes that doesn't happen, and somebody else edits them,

00:17:07 ◼   ► and that's just how it goes.

00:17:08 ◼   ► So, it's fun.

00:17:09 ◼   ► I was stepping in your shoes there, where I had to read the ads, I had to do the show

00:17:13 ◼   ► notes, I had to do all the things that you do. So it gives me an appreciation for you,

00:17:17 ◼   ► fellow host.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. And as usual, Jason set off the "I have edited the episode" signal, which he

00:17:23 ◼   ► sets off at the start of every upgrade episode that he edits.

00:17:26 ◼   ► Yeah, which is that I started at a different time of the theme song than you do, and everybody

00:17:30 ◼   ► who is--

00:17:31 ◼   ► Right, and you use a completely different version of the song, too.

00:17:34 ◼   ► I didn't this time. I think I used the proper version this time, but I-- because, I don't

00:17:40 ◼   ► know, I was feeling nice, but I didn't exactly match it, and I realized, I listened back

00:17:44 ◼   ► to when you put in the "Where You Start the Theme" song, and I realized, I like it better

00:17:50 ◼   ► where I started, so I just did it that way, but if I wanted to totally disguise the fact

00:17:54 ◼   ► that I edited the episode, I would just ape exactly what you did.

00:17:58 ◼   ► I have very specific places where I start.

00:18:01 ◼   ► I know, I know, we had this conversation, we're so far off the rails now, but I had

00:18:05 ◼   ► this conversation with Dan about Clockwise, because Dan still doesn't put it in the right

00:18:08 ◼   ► place and clockwise and it turns out I told him where he should put where the show should

00:18:12 ◼   ► start and he was like oh that would save me two seconds which on clockwise is kind of

00:18:15 ◼   ► a big deal so that's maybe in the future yeah so I on this show I have very specific place

00:18:21 ◼   ► that I start on the pen addict I have a very specific place I'm thoroughly concerned very

00:18:25 ◼   ► specific place but I'm connected I change it every single week I just drop it in I just

00:18:29 ◼   ► move it around wherever I want I just it's not like I'm trying to change it but I don't

00:18:36 ◼   ► have in that show like a moment because the music isn't as like that there aren't beats

00:18:41 ◼   ► in it that you would specifically change because it's a classical piece of music that we that

00:18:44 ◼   ► we got I can't even remember who is I think it's Bach and I just kind of put it in and

00:18:50 ◼   ► move it around to wherever feels good and that's where it is that week.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Yep. Today's show is brought to you by Encapsula. Encapsula will help you delight visitors to

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00:20:12 ◼   ► Encapsular for their continued support of this show and Relay FM. So you will remember Jason

00:20:19 ◼   ► many weeks ago I was talking about getting some bumpers for my iPhone and was looking at like

00:20:26 ◼   ► what bumper cases would I maybe want to get for my iPhone X,

00:20:30 ◼   ► and I ordered one called the Incase Frame.

00:20:34 ◼   ► It arrived with me a few days ago.

00:20:37 ◼   ► I put it on my phone, it lasted about 25 seconds,

00:20:43 ◼   ► and it's now gonna, Edina's selling it on eBay.

00:20:46 ◼   ► - You just snapped it right into pieces,

00:20:49 ◼   ► and that was the end of it? - Right on by off.

00:20:52 ◼   ► No, not good.

00:20:53 ◼   ► I had a few people tell me this.

00:20:54 ◼   ► I had a few people tell me this, but mine was already on the way.

00:20:59 ◼   ► It's not good.

00:21:00 ◼   ► So the problem that I had, really the problem with this case, I can tell is that it was

00:21:08 ◼   ► designed before anybody actually used the iPhone X.

00:21:13 ◼   ► They never actually had one.

00:21:14 ◼   ► If they did, then I don't know why they made this case.

00:21:17 ◼   ► One of the problems is, so it's a bumper case, right?

00:21:19 ◼   ► So it has just the rail that goes around the outside and nothing on the front and back.

00:21:24 ◼   ► The case on the left and right hand side ever so slightly covers the screen like it's not

00:21:29 ◼   ► where it should be.

00:21:31 ◼   ► It's not complete.

00:21:32 ◼   ► It's like it's not flush.

00:21:33 ◼   ► There's just like maybe a millimeter or two like it overlaps but you can see it right

00:21:37 ◼   ► like I don't feel like that should be right.

00:21:39 ◼   ► But the other problem is it's way too tricky to operate the home gesture because the case

00:21:43 ◼   ► has a lip at the bottom.

00:21:45 ◼   ► So like it's almost impossible to get to the home gesture because you can't swipe up from

00:21:49 ◼   ► the bottom of the phone.

00:21:51 ◼   ► So that good.

00:21:52 ◼   ► No, it didn't last for me.

00:21:54 ◼   ► I had some people say to me that they hated it

00:21:57 ◼   ► because of the buttons.

00:21:58 ◼   ► It actually doesn't have buttons,

00:21:59 ◼   ► it just has areas that you squeeze.

00:22:01 ◼   ► I had no problems with this, it worked fine.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Like whatever, it worked fine.

00:22:05 ◼   ► But I just didn't like the fact

00:22:06 ◼   ► that you couldn't operate the gestures,

00:22:08 ◼   ► it kind of covered the screen up.

00:22:10 ◼   ► I kind of immediately took it off and sent it back,

00:22:12 ◼   ► so not for me.

00:22:14 ◼   ► I actually now think that no bumper will do what I want

00:22:17 ◼   ► because I reckon now that probably all of them

00:22:19 ◼   ► will suffer the same fate

00:22:21 ◼   ► of not being able to very easily operate the home gesture.

00:22:26 ◼   ► - There's a reason why Apple's cases

00:22:28 ◼   ► all have cutouts at the bottom, right?

00:22:30 ◼   ► - Yep, well, I mean, they always have,

00:22:32 ◼   ► but there's a reason they didn't add it, right?

00:22:35 ◼   ► So like, you know, they've always,

00:22:37 ◼   ► all the silicon cases and liver cases,

00:22:38 ◼   ► they've always had that cutout at the bottom.

00:22:40 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, you don't wanna cover up the port

00:22:43 ◼   ► and you don't wanna cover up the speaker

00:22:46 ◼   ► and the microphone and all of that.

00:22:47 ◼   ► - 'Cause it just adds more trouble,

00:22:49 ◼   ► but it makes their cases even better.

00:22:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, speaking of which, I bought an Apple leather case.

00:22:57 ◼   ► I don't think I'm gonna use it all the time,

00:23:01 ◼   ► but I'm gonna use it sometimes.

00:23:04 ◼   ► And maybe if I like it, I'll use it all the time.

00:23:06 ◼   ► I don't wanna break the phone.

00:23:07 ◼   ► I've seen people's horror stories about it,

00:23:11 ◼   ► sliding off their nightstand and cracking the back

00:23:13 ◼   ► and all of that.

00:23:14 ◼   ► It's just terrifying.

00:23:15 ◼   ► And I've got the silicone case now

00:23:19 ◼   ► and in a color I don't like,

00:23:21 ◼   ► and I don't like how it makes it hard to take it in,

00:23:25 ◼   ► take it out of my pocket and put it in my pocket,

00:23:27 ◼   ► but I do like operating it with the case is fine.

00:23:31 ◼   ► And I like that it basically,

00:23:33 ◼   ► it eliminates the camera bump,

00:23:35 ◼   ► which is also kind of nice.

00:23:36 ◼   ► That makes it back to perfectly flat when I lay it down.

00:23:39 ◼   ► And so I'm gonna,

00:23:41 ◼   ► I decided that in the end I was gonna spend the money

00:23:44 ◼   ► and get the Apple leather case,

00:23:46 ◼   ► which I used on the iPhone 6 for ages

00:23:48 ◼   ► and really liked. So we'll give it a go.

00:23:52 ◼   ► - Cool, yeah, I'm silicon case all the time now.

00:23:56 ◼   ► Because I just, I didn't feel comfortable enough with it.

00:24:03 ◼   ► - It's a shame though, because that phone is beautiful

00:24:06 ◼   ► without any case on it.

00:24:07 ◼   ► It really is. - I know, I know, I know.

00:24:10 ◼   ► Maybe I'll try it again one day, but like,

00:24:12 ◼   ► I was having problems with my hands anyway,

00:24:15 ◼   ► which I haven't, I feel like maybe wasn't the phone

00:24:18 ◼   ► in the end, but my grip is vastly better with the silicon case. It feels more natural to

00:24:26 ◼   ► me. So it's just going to be tucked away inside of there underneath the ultraviolet silicon

00:24:31 ◼   ► case, which Joe still loves in the chat room. It's the one that I have. It is a wonderful

00:24:36 ◼   ► color. So I'm happy with that at least. So you may remember many, many weeks ago, we

00:24:41 ◼   ► were talking about, you have an Amazon show which is the Echo that has the screen on it,

00:24:48 ◼   ► the Amazon Echo show I should say. Their YouTube had been pulled off of the device which rendered

00:24:54 ◼   ► it almost useless because the main source of video on the internet could no longer be

00:24:59 ◼   ► watched on a device with a screen on it.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Almost useless for playing video. It's got other uses. I mean, I don't play a lot of

00:25:06 ◼   ► video on it anyway. I use it for other things. But I would like more access to video, YouTube

00:25:12 ◼   ► included. Right now it's like Amazon Prime Video is on there and that's about it.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Well it's back. They don't have their own app anymore. It looks like it's the WebView,

00:25:20 ◼   ► which I think lends completely to the argument that what YouTube wanted, which was for all

00:25:27 ◼   ► of their features like autoplay and all that kind of stuff to be working. And Amazon seemed

00:25:32 ◼   ► to build an application that didn't observe any of their requirements in their API. I

00:25:49 ◼   ► want to read a quote from The Verge just to give you an example of how this thing is working.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Based on a tweet from The Verge editor Dan Seifert, it seems that the new YouTube integration

00:26:01 ◼   ► Unfortunately, Half Hardly supports voice controls at all, with the new device loading

00:26:05 ◼   ► the interface slowly, and even then, loading a windowed version of the video.

00:26:09 ◼   ► The Echo Show still does support full screen YouTube videos, but users will need a separate

00:26:14 ◼   ► - you have to say echo, zoom in - ahoy lady - ahoy lady in the canister, zoom in, and

00:26:22 ◼   ► once you give that command, it will display videos zoomed in.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Like this isn't, this sounds just really half-baked,

00:26:29 ◼   ► like just not good, which is a shame.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Amazon have also announced that Vimeo and Dailymotion support

00:26:38 ◼   ► will be coming to the Echo Show 2,

00:26:40 ◼   ► or at least it's available now.

00:26:41 ◼   ► So that's good, more video options,

00:26:44 ◼   ► a weird YouTube implementation, but at least it's there.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Right, like if you have this device,

00:26:48 ◼   ► you wanna be able to get videos on it, and you can--

00:26:50 ◼   ► - I think for this device to be, I have one.

00:26:55 ◼   ► I use it every day for this device to be successful as a video playing device.

00:27:00 ◼   ► Amazon needs to just fully embrace that.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Um, they need every possible video provider on here and do whatever they can.

00:27:09 ◼   ► The funny, the funny thing is they have relationships because of the fire TV.

00:27:15 ◼   ► And I hate to say it, but I kind of want to say it.

00:27:18 ◼   ► Like I think the echo show should be a fire TV, a self-contained fire TV set.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I think that should be one of the things that it does.

00:27:25 ◼   ► And that means, and I don't know if it's capable of that or not,

00:27:28 ◼   ► although it's running Android just like the Fire TV.

00:27:31 ◼   ► So maybe it could do a subset of it.

00:27:33 ◼   ► I don't know if it would need special versions of apps or whatever,

00:27:36 ◼   ► but like what I'm getting at here is like,

00:27:40 ◼   ► if I can install an app that plays video on a Fire TV,

00:27:43 ◼   ► I should be able to do it on the Echo Show.

00:27:45 ◼   ► And that means, yeah, I should be able to watch Netflix on the Echo Show.

00:27:49 ◼   ► And I know they want me to watch Prime Video because everybody who's got an

00:27:53 ◼   ► Echo is going to have Prime, right? But sometimes I want to watch

00:27:57 ◼   ► Netflix and like I'm still an Amazon customer and their product is still

00:28:01 ◼   ► helping me, but sometimes I want to watch Netflix. Watching live TV is another

00:28:05 ◼   ► thing. They should be endeavoring to make it as easy as possible

00:28:08 ◼   ► for you to say, "Hey lady, I want to watch name of a TV news channel, CNN, Fox News,

00:28:15 ◼   ► MSNBC, whatever," and pop to the live stream of that. And if you have to put in

00:28:21 ◼   ► your credentials to log into your cable provider whatever fine but like this

00:28:25 ◼   ► would be a really really more interesting product if it was also a

00:28:29 ◼   ► television as silly as it is to say that it really would be well it makes more

00:28:34 ◼   ► sense for this to be the kitchen television right now rather that with

00:28:38 ◼   ► with the echo smarts in it you know yeah and major league baseball's another example

00:28:44 ◼   ► I've got lots of examples but like live would be good and access to all of my

00:28:47 ◼   ► other programming because yeah that's what I that's what I want sometimes I

00:28:50 ◼   ► would be happy to just say can you put on this channel and have it just pop in

00:28:56 ◼   ► a stream that would be pretty great and I feel like it's within their technical

00:28:59 ◼   ► capabilities to do that so maybe they'll get there maybe that they getting daily

00:29:03 ◼   ► motion and and YouTube and other you know other sites like that on here is

00:29:09 ◼   ► part of the story but they need to they need to keep going with it and they need

00:29:12 ◼   ► to leverage their fire TV deals to get people's TV channels and content on this

00:29:17 ◼   ► thing. So we in our #AskUpgrade segment that we have at the end of the

00:29:23 ◼   ► show we've been asked quite a few times recently about the iPhone SE and if

00:29:28 ◼   ► there will be a new iPhone SE. Well there's been another round of rumors

00:29:32 ◼   ► about the device these all come from a website called Tech Z24 which I mean I

00:29:37 ◼   ► don't really know what this website is it is an Indian based technology website

00:29:42 ◼   ► but like I don't know its credentials right like I've never really paid any

00:29:46 ◼   ► any attention to it other than the last time that they had a rumor about the iPhone SE.

00:29:52 ◼   ► But I will say that a tech site based in India makes sense considering that's where the iPhone

00:29:57 ◼   ► SE is made, right? Like I figured that's why I'm giving any kind of credence to this because

00:30:03 ◼   ► that logic kind of checks out to me. The new rumor is saying that it is expected to ship

00:30:08 ◼   ► within Q1, so by March, and to piggyback on the last one they gave some specs of an A10

00:30:14 ◼   ► fusion chip, 2GB of RAM, 32GB or 128GB storage, 12MP rear camera, 5MP front camera and a slightly

00:30:21 ◼   ► larger battery at 1700mAh.

00:30:26 ◼   ► I would say, I don't know whether to say like, "Oh yeah, this is obviously spot on."

00:30:32 ◼   ► But all of that makes sense to me.

00:30:34 ◼   ► All of that makes sense.

00:30:36 ◼   ► I think that there will be one.

00:30:38 ◼   ► Those specs check out and launching it in Q1.

00:30:42 ◼   ► That makes sense because I reckon that's probably when the HomePod's coming out.

00:30:47 ◼   ► There might be a few things to just release at the same time there.

00:30:50 ◼   ► That makes sense to me.

00:30:51 ◼   ► And it's an iPhone 7 in the SE case.

00:30:56 ◼   ► We had people ask about the SE, like, will it look different and all of that.

00:31:01 ◼   ► I think that, I think, I know this is wacky, but I think we need to stop thinking of that

00:31:08 ◼   ► case design as the iPhone 5 case design. And I think we need to start thinking of it as

00:31:12 ◼   ► the classic small iPhone design because, you know, card designs go on a long time. I think

00:31:20 ◼   ► this is like that. I think this is just Apple saying, "We're gonna make phones that look

00:31:27 ◼   ► like this for a while." And they'll always be available, but they'll be kind of current.

00:31:32 ◼   ► The one thing that I'm a little surprised by is if it still has a headphone jack because

00:31:37 ◼   ► Apple has moved away from that in so many places but if it's already

00:31:40 ◼   ► engineered I mean part of the premise here is to change as little as possible

00:31:43 ◼   ► in this device and make and build it you know make it a low-cost device but I

00:31:48 ◼   ► it's not surprising other than we've been waiting for a signal that it might

00:31:51 ◼   ► really be happening and that's the that's what this report at least might

00:31:56 ◼   ► give us is that first signal that this is because I think it makes sense it's a

00:31:59 ◼   ► it's a part of a much larger product line it's just one little piece but it's

00:32:03 ◼   ► a good piece and there's an audience for this product in terms of size I know a

00:32:06 ◼   ► a bunch of people who have the iPhone SE because they don't want a bigger phone. And I've had

00:32:11 ◼   ► people who I've shown the 6 or the 7 or the 8 to and they've got a 5S or something like

00:32:17 ◼   ► that and they're like, "Oh, I don't want that." I just say, "Get an SE," right? It makes sense

00:32:22 ◼   ► for it to be there. I don't think that design language necessarily ever has to evolve or

00:32:26 ◼   ► has to evolve anytime soon.

00:32:27 ◼   ► It's like the Porsche 911. That's what the iPhone SE design is like.

00:32:34 ◼   ► classic design it's not going anywhere it's that it's a good design for that

00:32:38 ◼   ► size phone and you know that's and by not getting any thinner and lighter it

00:32:44 ◼   ► allows them to just kind of keep iterating the technology and it's the

00:32:48 ◼   ► rumors an 810 so you know we're talking about an iPhone 7 level there and not an

00:32:53 ◼   ► iPhone 8 level which is you know I don't know I'm a little surprised by that but

00:32:58 ◼   ► not not spectacularly surprised by that it's a you know an upgraded cameras and

00:33:03 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what we would expect is every couple of years, Apple will boost the specs

00:33:07 ◼   ► of the SE so that it's current-ish.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:12 ◼   ► So, I mentioned I've just been on a trip, right?

00:33:17 ◼   ► And I wanted to give some thoughts, some observations about traveling with the iPhone X.

00:33:22 ◼   ► So it's just a couple of things that I noticed about the phone that I haven't really noticed

00:33:26 ◼   ► too much in my usage before that.

00:33:29 ◼   ► One is battery life.

00:33:31 ◼   ► I was happy with the battery life.

00:33:33 ◼   ► I was kind of paying attention to it.

00:33:35 ◼   ► I haven't got any scientific tests here.

00:33:37 ◼   ► But I didn't feel like my battery was dying on me.

00:33:42 ◼   ► Where these are the times when I will be putting the phone

00:33:45 ◼   ► through its paces the most when I'm traveling.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Spending more extended periods of time away from charges

00:33:51 ◼   ► and doing more with the phone in regards to taking photos

00:33:54 ◼   ► and stuff like that and looking up maps.

00:33:55 ◼   ► And I'm jumping between different networks

00:34:00 ◼   ► 'cause I'm roaming more and all that kind of stuff.

00:34:03 ◼   ► I would say that the iPhone X feels really comparable to the Plus to me.

00:34:07 ◼   ► It would last the day when I needed it to and I wasn't finding myself having to be stressed

00:34:12 ◼   ► out about my battery.

00:34:13 ◼   ► So I would say it's very comparable to the Plus in my usage on this trip.

00:34:19 ◼   ► And also, I for the first time really noticed how good the new cameras are.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I think the pairing of the camera and the OLED screen and True Tone and all of that

00:34:30 ◼   ► amazing stuff. I was taking pictures on this trip and was just like taken aback at how

00:34:36 ◼   ► good I thought that they looked. Like I kept like me and Adina would take a picture of

00:34:40 ◼   ► the same thing and I'll be like, let's compare the pictures and like we'd look at them, right?

00:34:44 ◼   ► But like, oh, look how much better mine is. Uh, she has a, an iPhone 6s and I was really

00:34:49 ◼   ► like, there was just a lot of times like, you know, I was in Las Vegas, so there's a

00:34:52 ◼   ► lot of color everywhere. Right. And they were just things that I was taking pictures of

00:34:56 ◼   ► like neon signs and stuff like that.

00:34:57 ◼   ► And just the color reproduction, which is so wonderful.

00:35:01 ◼   ► Um, I was really, really, really happy and impressed with how good that combo is.

00:35:05 ◼   ► The camera on the screen, they, they work so well together.

00:35:08 ◼   ► We had a, uh, family, you know, family group here for Thanksgiving as we often do.

00:35:13 ◼   ► It's, uh, one of our American things that we do.

00:35:16 ◼   ► And, um, we, uh, on the last day before people were leaving, we went out to, in

00:35:23 ◼   ► the front yard and took a picture.

00:35:26 ◼   ► And I, you know, I got out of glyph and a tripod

00:35:31 ◼   ► and put the timer on and I used the iPhone 10.

00:35:34 ◼   ► And I had that experience that plus users have had

00:35:37 ◼   ► for a while now, but that I had this time,

00:35:38 ◼   ► which is I didn't have to get the camera ridiculously close

00:35:41 ◼   ► 'cause I just put it in the 2X camera.

00:35:43 ◼   ► And it looked great.

00:35:46 ◼   ► It looked so good.

00:35:47 ◼   ► It is such a good picture.

00:35:49 ◼   ► And it's just one of those little moments of like,

00:35:51 ◼   ► I think this is way better than the picture

00:35:53 ◼   ► I would have taken, you know, three weeks ago.

00:35:55 ◼   ► So that's cool.

00:35:57 ◼   ► How was Thanksgiving?

00:35:57 ◼   ► Did you have a Thanksgiving, by the way?

00:35:59 ◼   ► - So we actually were coming home on American Thanksgiving.

00:36:03 ◼   ► So we left on the Wednesday, arriving home on the Thursday,

00:36:06 ◼   ► and we actually had booked in London a Thanksgiving dinner.

00:36:10 ◼   ► We've done this a couple of times now.

00:36:11 ◼   ► We love Thanksgiving dinners.

00:36:13 ◼   ► - I know.

00:36:14 ◼   ► - We were gonna hopefully fight for our jet lag

00:36:16 ◼   ► and go to one in London,

00:36:17 ◼   ► but the buffet in the hotel changed over their menu

00:36:21 ◼   ► on like Tuesday to a Thanksgiving menu.

00:36:26 ◼   ► Like they were going to have Thanksgiving food at the buffet.

00:36:28 ◼   ► So we just did that one evening and it was incredible. Food was so good.

00:36:33 ◼   ► The best part was a sweet potatoes with vanilla marshmallow.

00:36:37 ◼   ► Oh my God. Oh my God. I've had it with marshmallow before,

00:36:41 ◼   ► but the addition of vanilla was every, it was everything.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Vanilla makes everything better.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Yeah. You didn't have any pumpkin pie though, which I was super bummed about. Um,

00:36:50 ◼   ► But there's a Whole Foods near where Adina works, and she said that she's gonna get me a pumpkin pie at some point, if they still have them.

00:36:56 ◼   ► They probably do.

00:36:57 ◼   ► They probably do. I had a, uh, I made a sweet potato pie. And it was very good.

00:37:02 ◼   ► How was your Thanksgiving?

00:37:03 ◼   ► It was good. It was very good.

00:37:05 ◼   ► The, um, did it here, so I did the, I roast the turkey, did the brine and roasting the turkey thing, which worked great, as it usually does.

00:37:14 ◼   ► and we had mashed potatoes and Brussels sprouts roasted,

00:37:19 ◼   ► which are, people hate Brussels sprouts,

00:37:22 ◼   ► but they're really good when they're roasted.

00:37:24 ◼   ► That kills all the badness, I think.

00:37:27 ◼   ► And what else did we have?

00:37:28 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:29 ◼   ► Yeah, mashed potatoes, Brussels sprouts, rolls,

00:37:32 ◼   ► some roasted vegetables.

00:37:34 ◼   ► It was good.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Cranberry sauce, gravy.

00:37:36 ◼   ► You know, it was Thanksgiving.

00:37:39 ◼   ► With how many people did we have?

00:37:41 ◼   ► Seven.

00:37:44 ◼   ► So yeah, around our, we stuck all the little extra things in the dinner table so that it

00:37:49 ◼   ► can seat seven.

00:37:50 ◼   ► And yeah, I think everybody had a good time.

00:37:52 ◼   ► And it was sunny, which was nice too, because it was supposed to rain that whole time, but

00:37:57 ◼   ► it didn't.

00:37:58 ◼   ► So it was beautiful.

00:37:59 ◼   ► The cranberry sauce that they had was a real cranberry sauce.

00:38:05 ◼   ► Like it had cranberries in it, you know?

00:38:06 ◼   ► Like it wasn't like the stuff that comes in the can, which maintains the shape of the

00:38:10 ◼   ► can.

00:38:11 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:38:12 ◼   ► You know what I'm talking about?

00:38:13 ◼   ► cranberry sauce that had cranberries in it. I prefer the stuff that's basically just like

00:38:18 ◼   ► a jelly.

00:38:19 ◼   ► Now, did you know though, cranberries, because of the contents of the cranberries, they naturally

00:38:23 ◼   ► make that jelly themselves. It seems like it's a totally artificial thing, and perhaps

00:38:29 ◼   ► the ones in the can are artificial, but you can make a cranberry sauce that's basically

00:38:34 ◼   ► a jelly and it's all because of the contents of the cranberries. They do that. They do

00:38:39 ◼   ► it that way.

00:38:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, you see, I don't like the,

00:38:42 ◼   ► I just want just the pure sauce.

00:38:45 ◼   ► I don't want cranberries all up in it.

00:38:47 ◼   ► Otherwise I'll eat some cranberries.

00:38:49 ◼   ► You know, like I'm looking for just a sauce here.

00:38:52 ◼   ► That's my feeling on these things.

00:38:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I hear you.

00:38:54 ◼   ► - Just a handful of cranberries.

00:38:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was good.

00:38:57 ◼   ► It was all good.

00:38:58 ◼   ► We ate it all.

00:38:59 ◼   ► There was none left of the leftovers.

00:39:00 ◼   ► I had leftover turkey,

00:39:01 ◼   ► but I did not have any leftover cranberry sauce.

00:39:04 ◼   ► Sadly.

00:39:05 ◼   ► - Not bad, not bad.

00:39:05 ◼   ► You're a good--

00:39:06 ◼   ► - That's right, and then we had some barbecue on Friday,

00:39:08 ◼   ► so that was good too.

00:39:08 ◼   ► from that barbecue place?

00:39:10 ◼   ► - From the, yeah, sure.

00:39:11 ◼   ► From the old standby barbecue place.

00:39:14 ◼   ► It's absolutely true.

00:39:16 ◼   ► - I've eaten from that barbecue place and it's very good.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Whilst in the snail zone one time.

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00:41:25 ◼   ► So Jason, you published an article to Macworld with the title of "Why Apple's Next Laptop

00:41:33 ◼   ► Should Run iOS", which is a bold claim.

00:41:37 ◼   ► This is emerged from upgrade last week.

00:41:40 ◼   ► This was, John and I kind of walked into it when we were talking about iOS and Apple trying

00:41:45 ◼   ► different things and something like Microsoft Surface Studio, which is a desktop iOS device,

00:41:54 ◼   ► know, could Apple do that as a desktop iOS device with a big, big old touchscreen?

00:41:59 ◼   ► And, um, and it sort of came up about like, or a laptop, like let's, let's have

00:42:06 ◼   ► them do that. Like I think, and the idea was the spirit of trying that, trying,

00:42:12 ◼   ► uh, you know, trying some new things with iOS and Apple and its laptops and, uh,

00:42:18 ◼   ► maybe increasing the diversity of its product line a little bit by creating

00:42:22 ◼   ► some more products that are different and have different uses and learning what those

00:42:28 ◼   ► uses are. So that's sort of where it came from anyway.

00:42:33 ◼   ► So the premise, I guess if we can maybe kind of set the premise from the article a little

00:42:38 ◼   ► bit more. There are a couple of interesting things that I think you dive into. So kind

00:42:44 ◼   ► of looking at the products that we have now and looking at kind of where they're moving

00:42:49 ◼   ► towards, there is an interesting thing in the form factors and kind of like why do iOS

00:42:56 ◼   ► devices not have keyboards and why do Mac OS devices not have touch screens?

00:43:01 ◼   ► Why is it this way?

00:43:02 ◼   ► Because this is kind of I guess the thing that is stopping them converging, maybe these

00:43:07 ◼   ► two things, right?

00:43:09 ◼   ► No fixed keyboards, no touch screens on one and the other.

00:43:12 ◼   ► And the iPad Pro is inching its way towards becoming a laptop, but it isn't one.

00:43:19 ◼   ► It's still a tablet.

00:43:21 ◼   ► And I guess that's kind of where you're coming from with this, right?

00:43:24 ◼   ► It's like the iPad Pro is pushing you towards this thinking.

00:43:27 ◼   ► There is a keyboard, but you have to attach it, and it's not a laptop keyboard.

00:43:31 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly right.

00:43:32 ◼   ► So I use the Brydge keyboard, which has the clips, so you slide it in, and then it behaves

00:43:37 ◼   ► basically like a laptop.

00:43:40 ◼   ► it's a great experience. Like, that said, it is not a laptop, it is a

00:43:46 ◼   ► tablet in a little laptop case. And it's not what most people are using, they're

00:43:52 ◼   ► using the smart keyboard. And the smart keyboard, like the Microsoft Surface

00:43:56 ◼   ► keyboard cover before it, is a thing that makes a tablet something that's got a

00:44:00 ◼   ► keyboard, but it's not a laptop. You really need to put it on a

00:44:05 ◼   ► hard surface on a desk or a table. If you try to put it on your lap, it's tippy and

00:44:11 ◼   ► it's not a great experience and you can't really adjust the angle. It's sort of the angle that it

00:44:16 ◼   ► gives you and which is not to say that it isn't nice, but it is not the full-on laptop experience.

00:44:22 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and yeah, this comes up a lot about iOS devices, don't have keyboards

00:44:27 ◼   ► and macOS devices, don't have touch screens, like you said, and I heard that a lot. Like, we know

00:44:33 ◼   ► know from Apple, like they've said, "Well, we don't think the touchscreen is a great

00:44:36 ◼   ► place," but then they make the touch bar because it's down in the plane with the

00:44:39 ◼   ► keyboard instead, but it's not in your visual plane.

00:44:41 ◼   ► That argument's gone out the window now. Like, the touch bar and the iPad Pro ruined

00:44:46 ◼   ► that argument for them because, you know, the old kind of like zombie arms

00:44:51 ◼   ► argument, like, that's gone out the window.

00:44:53 ◼   ► That's right. Well, I hear that one. I still hear that one, which is, "Oh, Apple's

00:44:57 ◼   ► never going to do that because Apple's philosophy is that you don't want to

00:45:01 ◼   ► on a keyboard and then reach up to touch the screen. So how are they going to

00:45:04 ◼   ► change that? I got that a lot. Explain that, Mr. Wizard. Explain that

00:45:08 ◼   ► one away for me. And the answer is, Apple makes the smart keyboard for the iPad.

00:45:13 ◼   ► This is a little bit like when people, when I talk about maybe

00:45:16 ◼   ► adding external pointing device support on iOS. People are like, "Well, that's

00:45:21 ◼   ► insane! Once you can move a cursor around the screen on iOS, the jig

00:45:25 ◼   ► is up. They're never going to allow that." And I have to say, there's already a

00:45:29 ◼   ► cursor, the text insertion cursor is movable on both of iPhone and the iPad,

00:45:35 ◼   ► there's already a cursor, it's done, like the genie is out of the bottle already

00:45:40 ◼   ► and the same is true for the zombie arms argument which is Apple makes a keyboard

00:45:45 ◼   ► for use with an iPad, what is the what is how do you do that?

00:45:49 ◼   ► The answer is you type and then you reach up and touch on the screen.

00:45:52 ◼   ► There's no, you know, there's arrow keys, there's no trackpad on the smart keyboard

00:45:56 ◼   ► So you can't even do say, oh, well, but you use a pointing device when you're in the keyboard

00:46:00 ◼   ► mode. It's like, no, you don't. You reach up and touch the screen. And that is in the

00:46:05 ◼   ► Apple has designated that as an acceptable use case for the iPad Pro. So, you know, I

00:46:12 ◼   ► would argue it's an acceptable use case anyway, because of third party utilities, but once

00:46:16 ◼   ► Apple's got their own keyboard, then you can't argue that it's like, well, third parties

00:46:20 ◼   ► will do crazy stuff, but Apple doesn't believe in having a keyboard and also a touchscreen

00:46:25 ◼   ► 'cause it's already got it.

00:46:27 ◼   ► It's already got it there.

00:46:27 ◼   ► So my question there is, why not?

00:46:31 ◼   ► And I don't want this to be an argument

00:46:33 ◼   ► about making macOS devices with touch screens,

00:46:35 ◼   ► 'cause I think that's a different argument

00:46:37 ◼   ► and it has to do with how much do you wanna change macOS

00:46:41 ◼   ► to support touch?

00:46:42 ◼   ► Because I think it would require changes

00:46:44 ◼   ► and I fundamentally don't believe Apple

00:46:47 ◼   ► wants to change the Mac that much.

00:46:49 ◼   ► I don't.

00:46:49 ◼   ► - No, like this is the idea of a laptop form factor

00:46:53 ◼   ► running iOS is a way easier thing to achieve

00:46:57 ◼   ► than making macOS touchable.

00:47:01 ◼   ► - Oh, by far, because all the pieces are already there.

00:47:05 ◼   ► I mean, literally, all you need to do

00:47:08 ◼   ► is make a piece of hardware.

00:47:10 ◼   ► So they've got a phone, they've got a tablet,

00:47:12 ◼   ► make a laptop or a convertible or something

00:47:15 ◼   ► that is just on the other side of that divide.

00:47:17 ◼   ► And the way I think of it is,

00:47:20 ◼   ► and if you think about like the Surface,

00:47:23 ◼   ► and the Surface product line that Microsoft has got,

00:47:26 ◼   ► like this is what Microsoft's trying to do,

00:47:28 ◼   ► which is they have a tablet

00:47:31 ◼   ► that can kind of pose as a laptop.

00:47:34 ◼   ► They've got a laptop,

00:47:36 ◼   ► and then they've got a thing that's kind of a laptop

00:47:41 ◼   ► with a detachable tablet part,

00:47:44 ◼   ► which is that middle product that they've got.

00:47:47 ◼   ► But I view that the same way,

00:47:50 ◼   ► that iPad is a tablet that can pretend to be a laptop,

00:47:54 ◼   ► but it's primarily a tablet.

00:47:56 ◼   ► Apple could create a laptop

00:47:59 ◼   ► that might be able to pretend to be a tablet.

00:48:02 ◼   ► We can talk about that,

00:48:03 ◼   ► but it's primarily a laptop and runs iOS.

00:48:07 ◼   ► And I also heard from a lot of people who say,

00:48:09 ◼   ► "Oh, but it can't be a real computer.

00:48:11 ◼   ► It can't be a, it doesn't compile software.

00:48:13 ◼   ► It doesn't do this or that."

00:48:15 ◼   ► And it's like, well, again,

00:48:17 ◼   ► I have very little patience for people who say

00:48:19 ◼   ► that because it doesn't do one thing it can't exist, right? Because the whole

00:48:24 ◼   ► idea here is you have a variety of products for different users and just

00:48:28 ◼   ► because you wouldn't use it does not mean that there aren't uses for it

00:48:33 ◼   ► because I had to answer a bunch of people on Twitter who are like "oh but you

00:48:36 ◼   ► can't do all of these things" like yeah I don't do those things and I know a lot

00:48:41 ◼   ► of people who don't do those things. My daughter used a Chromebook for

00:48:45 ◼   ► several years it does nothing but and actually the sports writer Joe Piznanski

00:48:49 ◼   ► just wrote a piece last week about how he was simplifying his life and one of

00:48:53 ◼   ► the things he did was he sold his Mac and his PC and he bought a Chromebook,

00:48:56 ◼   ► a Google Pixelbook, and he said, "Yeah, I know it doesn't do all of

00:49:03 ◼   ► these things, I don't do any of those things, it does all the things I need and

00:49:06 ◼   ► and so therefore it's perfectly relevant." And that's exactly how I was thinking

00:49:10 ◼   ► about an iOS laptop or just using an iPad Pro, both of those things. No, they

00:49:15 ◼   ► don't do everything all computers can do, but I didn't say let's ban all other

00:49:19 ◼   ► computers because I don't feel that way, but I do think that there's a little slot here

00:49:24 ◼   ► for something interesting. And one of the things that the Pixelbook does, for people

00:49:28 ◼   ► who don't know, is it's got a hinge, it's a laptop, but it's got a 360 degree hinge,

00:49:34 ◼   ► which means that you can fold the keyboard back and treat it like a tablet. And again,

00:49:39 ◼   ► is that, is a laptop folded backwards so the keyboard is behind the screen, is that as

00:49:46 ◼   ► good as a real tablet? No, it's not. Just like attaching a little magnetic keyboard

00:49:53 ◼   ► dealy to a tablet is not as good as a laptop, right? There is still a divide there, but

00:50:01 ◼   ► you can get some use cases that kind of go over the edge. Because that's what I'm saying,

00:50:08 ◼   ► what is your primary use case? Do you want to get primarily a tablet that you can occasionally

00:50:12 ◼   ► stick a keyboard on. iPad Pro is that. If you want, but what about if you want primarily

00:50:17 ◼   ► a laptop, but sometimes want to fold it back and do tablet-y things, Apple doesn't have

00:50:22 ◼   ► that right now. But they could, maybe they should.

00:50:24 ◼   ► So this is called the convertible form factor, the one that you're talking about.

00:50:28 ◼   ► Yeah, there are a lot of convertible PCs out there too.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, like the Lenovo Yoga Book, which I think is something that we've spoken about

00:50:34 ◼   ► before with one of them. And basically, to be convertible, it has three modes. It has

00:50:40 ◼   ► laptop mode, it has tablet mode where you fold the tablet all the way around to the back.

00:50:44 ◼   ► Then it also has like a, many companies give us different names, but like a presentation mode or

00:50:50 ◼   ► whatever where you basically have it like a tent, right? Or you can fold it back and lean it up just

00:50:57 ◼   ► a way basically to stand up the screen in front of you, right? So you can have like a tent or you can

00:51:02 ◼   ► fold it back around and kind of like have the screen angling back with their no keyboard in

00:51:06 ◼   ► in front, the keyboard's at the back. You know, some way to presentation mode, kind

00:51:10 ◼   ► of the thing, where you're just looking at the screen, maybe watching a video or whatever.

00:51:14 ◼   ► Like, you know, with the smart keyboard, you wrap the smart keyboard around to the back

00:51:17 ◼   ► and stand it up, it's basically a way to do that. And that's what the convertible is.

00:51:22 ◼   ► The product does all three. That's kind of the feeling of it.

00:51:26 ◼   ► Yeah, the Pixelbook is why it was one of the prompts for me to write this, too, because

00:51:31 ◼   ► I see that as being, it's a premium product that Google made. It's not a $200 thing, it's

00:51:36 ◼   ► a thousand-dollar thing. And so it is a product that legitimately Apple

00:51:41 ◼   ► could build. And I think it serves a purpose. I think that it's not for

00:51:45 ◼   ► everybody, but it fills an interesting niche of people like Joe Pisnanski, as

00:51:51 ◼   ► an example, who's a sports writer. It does enough for a certain group who is

00:51:59 ◼   ► more likely to like a laptop than an iPad. They need a little more of the

00:52:04 ◼   ► shape and this is one of the challenges I think a lot of people have when I when

00:52:07 ◼   ► you talk about this I knew this would happen when I wrote this story is I

00:52:11 ◼   ► heard from a lot of people who said laptops aren't for iPads essentially

00:52:17 ◼   ► laptops are for computers and my answer to that is pretty simple which is that

00:52:24 ◼   ► that's totally wrong

00:52:26 ◼   ► shapes and operating systems are different doesn't mean they're not

00:52:30 ◼   ► related but they're different and as somebody who's used an iPad in a laptop

00:52:36 ◼   ► configuration a lot I can tell you it works like it works do not tell me that

00:52:42 ◼   ► it doesn't work because I know it works because I use it in that configuration

00:52:47 ◼   ► with my weird third-party bluetooth connected you know if you're lucky you

00:52:53 ◼   ► get one that works and if not you have to send it back slide it in with those

00:52:57 ◼   ► funny little clips in order to get into laptop mode doesn't really open from

00:53:01 ◼   ► clamshell as easily you gotta kinda like find purchase and open it up lots of

00:53:06 ◼   ► issues with it but when it is working as a laptop my iPad pro is kinda great for

00:53:12 ◼   ► what it is right it's not I'm not compiling software on it for my use

00:53:16 ◼   ► though it's great so to say a laptop shape should never have an a touch

00:53:22 ◼   ► interface like iOS on it, I guess you can believe what you want, but I have lived it,

00:53:28 ◼   ► and I think it is a completely valid shape for this kind of thing. And the Chromebook,

00:53:35 ◼   ► or the Pixelbook, is another example of that, of Google coming up from the other side. Also,

00:53:40 ◼   ► the Pixelbook does the Chrome OS thing where it can run Android apps, so that makes it

00:53:46 ◼   ► a more kind of similar comparison to something like this, I think.

00:53:51 ◼   ► So in the article you call out a potential name for the product which I had the little

00:53:56 ◼   ► brain exploding emoji when I read this that the iBook name is available which I absolutely

00:54:04 ◼   ► loved because it is right this this is essentially the iBook it is a laptop with the i in front

00:54:10 ◼   ► of it it's perfect for that um but like I kind of wanted to know from you from your

00:54:15 ◼   ► thinking would they seriously use this name would this be a third product or is it an

00:54:21 ◼   ► iPad? What is this product? Well, I mean, if this product even exists, who knows?

00:54:26 ◼   ► The naming comes... we talk about names of products that are actually going

00:54:30 ◼   ► to exist and not purely theoretical. I did have that moment about the iBook

00:54:35 ◼   ► again because, again, iNames are kind of not what people want, but iOS products

00:54:41 ◼   ► have iNames and I don't think they're going away. So I would love for it to be

00:54:45 ◼   ► called the iBook. Oh, by the way, that was actually an argument that I heard from a

00:54:48 ◼   ► a bunch of people was, you can't, Apple can't make a laptop that runs iOS because

00:54:54 ◼   ► then it will have laptops that run iOS and Mac OS and people will be confused.

00:54:57 ◼   ► And I thought, okay, is there a, a customer confusion challenge?

00:55:05 ◼   ► Do you have to message these products in a very particular way to make it clear

00:55:11 ◼   ► that this is not a Mac and this is a Mac?

00:55:13 ◼   ► Yes, that is a challenge.

00:55:17 ◼   ► However, do I think the existence of that challenge is enough to make you run away

00:55:22 ◼   ► and say, "Well, we can't make this product. People might be confused if we didn't

00:55:26 ◼   ► make an effort to make them not confused."

00:55:28 ◼   ► No, no. If there's reason enough to make the product, you make the product and

00:55:33 ◼   ► then you find a way to communicate it so that people aren't confused. And some

00:55:38 ◼   ► people are going to be confused regardless. They're going to be confused

00:55:40 ◼   ► about the difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro as it is. So, you know,

00:55:44 ◼   ► the again there are a lot of arguments that are but there's this one possible

00:55:47 ◼   ► problem so therefore we should stop having this conversation about this

00:55:51 ◼   ► problem like no I don't I don't I don't think so I think I think it could be

00:55:54 ◼   ► communicated and something like iBook versus Mac it's like it's not a Mac you

00:55:59 ◼   ► know how you can tell doesn't have the word Mac in it that's the that is like

00:56:03 ◼   ► the clincher it has an eye in it because it runs iOS this is an iBook which is

00:56:09 ◼   ► probably what I would call it although they might also call it like iPad book

00:56:13 ◼   ► or, and again I'm not saying that this product exists, but I think it's an interesting product

00:56:18 ◼   ► that maybe would be fun if it existed, and maybe Apple should do it, but again I don't

00:56:23 ◼   ► want to be one of those pundits like "Apple must do this" or "Apple..." but I think it

00:56:28 ◼   ► would be a really cool product, and so I would like to see it exist.

00:56:33 ◼   ► Why are you turning your back on the Mac? Why are you doing that? Why do you want the

00:56:37 ◼   ► Mac to die? I don't understand. Why?

00:56:42 ◼   ► I got this a lot from people who said,

00:56:45 ◼   ► it was funny, there were a couple of versions of this.

00:56:48 ◼   ► One is, yeah, why do you hate the Mac?

00:56:50 ◼   ► And the other one is, no, no, no,

00:56:52 ◼   ► this product needs to not exist because if Apple does this,

00:56:55 ◼   ► it's the final death blow for the Mac.

00:56:58 ◼   ► 'Cause once they start making iOS laptops,

00:57:00 ◼   ► the Mac is not gonna be around in 10 years.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Which I think is a really interesting argument

00:57:05 ◼   ► because I think that that is getting the sequence backward.

00:57:11 ◼   ► - I can see how you get to there.

00:57:13 ◼   ► I can see how you get there.

00:57:15 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, but it's putting the sequence backwards.

00:57:18 ◼   ► Like, if it's like maybe a nail in the coffin,

00:57:23 ◼   ► like if Apple does this, the jig is up, that may be true.

00:57:27 ◼   ► That may be true, it may not be, but it may be.

00:57:29 ◼   ► But it's not the thing that causes the jig to be up.

00:57:32 ◼   ► It's not the thing that caused a coffin to be constructed.

00:57:36 ◼   ► It's just the latest symptom of the fact

00:57:39 ◼   ► that Apple might be finding a way to move past the Mac. Also, a discussion for another

00:57:46 ◼   ► time, but you know, there's also this question of will, just because Apple has the Mac and

00:57:51 ◼   ► iOS, one possible future is iOS becomes more and more capable and the Mac sort of becomes

00:57:57 ◼   ► this legacy product that stays on the side, which is sort of what's been happening the

00:58:00 ◼   ► last few years. Another possibility is that like Google is doing with Project Fuchsia,

00:58:06 ◼   ► is actually building something, and Steve Trotton Smith and I were having a little back

00:58:10 ◼   ► and forth on this with some other people on Twitter this weekend about it, you know, maybe

00:58:15 ◼   ► there's a new OS that Apple is working on that is, drops a lot of the initial assumptions

00:58:22 ◼   ► of iOS and a lot of the baggage of the Mac and creates a new thing that's more flexible

00:58:27 ◼   ► and fits into all of these shapes and allows them to do a touchscreen interface on traditional

00:58:32 ◼   ► computer shapes that is not just kind of laying that on top of the old Mac

00:58:38 ◼   ► interface but is something new and allows iOS apps and maybe modern Mac

00:58:42 ◼   ► apps to kind of go there.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Maybe that will happen in a few years. That's a possibility too, so it

00:58:47 ◼   ► may not be the Mac being replaced by iOS at all. But in the meantime, yeah, I

00:58:53 ◼   ► like the Mac, I use a Mac, I'm not one of these iOS only people. I was, um, I have

00:58:59 ◼   ► I have an iMac 5k and I love it, but in all my other away from my desk

00:59:05 ◼   ► contexts at this point I am using iOS and I love it too. I would have a hard

00:59:12 ◼   ► time doing my job if I could never use a Mac at this point, which is why I don't

00:59:18 ◼   ► try, but some people won't and other people, you know, will find like I do that

00:59:26 ◼   ► the Mac is good over here and iOS is good over there. And I feel that that's where I

00:59:32 ◼   ► am right now. So I don't hate the Mac. I love the Mac. And if the Mac stays around forever,

00:59:36 ◼   ► that's great. If the Mac went away tomorrow, I would be extremely sad because there's so

00:59:39 ◼   ► much of what I do does require a Mac. I would manage. I don't think I would have to go to

00:59:45 ◼   ► Windows, although you never know, for limited desktop use. I would try to manage without.

00:59:50 ◼   ► But nobody's going to make us do that. It's going to be a long time. I do think—it's

00:59:56 ◼   ► because I also heard from a bunch of people about Apple's laptops, you know,

00:59:59 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro especially, and like all this consternation about Apple's laptops.

01:00:02 ◼   ► The last thing Apple needs to do is build a different laptop.

01:00:06 ◼   ► Um, that isn't a Mac because they're, they'd be distracted.

01:00:10 ◼   ► And again, I'm going to just say, I don't believe it.

01:00:12 ◼   ► Like, I think that this is a thing Apple should also work on.

01:00:15 ◼   ► And if you're mad about the MacBook Pro, that's fine.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Maybe you should be, I get it.

01:00:20 ◼   ► I get those arguments.

01:00:22 ◼   ► "I'm mad about the MacBook Pro" is not a reason why an iOS laptop couldn't be a good product.

01:00:28 ◼   ► I also heard from somebody, and I don't know what their level of knowledge and authority is within,

01:00:33 ◼   ► in terms of Apple sources, who said that originally the MacBook ran iOS.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And that was part of the idea originally, and then in the end it ran macOS.

01:00:45 ◼   ► I'm not sure that's true or not, but you could definitely see a MacBook-like thing running iOS

01:00:51 ◼   ► if it was a touchscreen, I do feel like having it be convertible, having a

01:00:55 ◼   ► convertible shape that is more like one of these Windows or Chromebook

01:00:59 ◼   ► convertibles might be a better way to do it. But I love the Mac. I just think

01:01:03 ◼   ► that one of the challenges with the Mac is that it doesn't provide some things, that

01:01:06 ◼   ► they would have to totally change how the Mac works to add touch on it. And I

01:01:11 ◼   ► do fundamentally believe that if Apple really expected the Mac to

01:01:17 ◼   ► transform over the next five or ten years into a touchscreen interface, it

01:01:20 ◼   ► it would have started a long time ago, and I don't think it's going there.

01:01:24 ◼   ► So I think the reason the Mac doesn't have touch is not because Apple doesn't believe

01:01:28 ◼   ► that you can mix touch and keyboards, I think it's because Apple doesn't believe the Mac

01:01:33 ◼   ► can mix touch and keyboards.

01:01:36 ◼   ► So I was thinking, Jason, if I would want this device, would I want a laptop that runs

01:01:42 ◼   ► iOS, an iOS laptop?

01:01:44 ◼   ► My answer is a resounding yes because my 12.9 inch iPad Pro is a laptop.

01:01:52 ◼   ► I never take the keyboard off.

01:01:53 ◼   ► It's always in landscape orientation.

01:01:57 ◼   ► If the keyboard is not in front of it, then it's wrapped around the back.

01:01:59 ◼   ► I am one of these, I run it in this convertible mode sometimes.

01:02:02 ◼   ► We may watch video on it when we're maybe at the dining table or something.

01:02:07 ◼   ► But most of the time, like 90% of the time, my iPad has the keyboard in front of it and

01:02:12 ◼   ► is always in landscape orientation.

01:02:14 ◼   ► I never use my 12.9 inch in tablet mode.

01:02:18 ◼   ► I just don't do that.

01:02:20 ◼   ► Like I don't sit and read Twitter on my iPad Pro

01:02:23 ◼   ► with it in portrait on my lap.

01:02:25 ◼   ► If I read Twitter on my iPad Pro,

01:02:27 ◼   ► I do it with the keyboard in front

01:02:28 ◼   ► and I press the space bar to scroll through a tweet bar.

01:02:30 ◼   ► Like I use my 12.9 inch iPad Pro like a laptop all the time.

01:02:35 ◼   ► Why do I do it?

01:02:37 ◼   ► So then I know people are gonna be asking the questions

01:02:39 ◼   ► that they always ask, which is, why do I do this?

01:02:42 ◼   ► don't I know how much better all of this would be if I just used a Mac?

01:02:45 ◼   ► And purely because I prefer using iOS to macOS.

01:02:51 ◼   ► It's what I like.

01:02:53 ◼   ► I like that the system has like a forced focus to it,

01:02:55 ◼   ► like I can use a couple of apps at a time, and that works really great for me.

01:02:58 ◼   ► The app ecosystem is vastly more exciting

01:03:02 ◼   ► for me than the one that exists on the Mac.

01:03:05 ◼   ► And I personally believe that iOS is closer to the

01:03:12 ◼   ► I mean, I said this a million times and I'll say it a million times more,

01:03:14 ◼   ► it's closer to what the future of computing will be than the Mac.

01:03:16 ◼   ► I just do.

01:03:16 ◼   ► I just where it's where I think computing is right now.

01:03:19 ◼   ► Like there is a starting point for the next 10 years.

01:03:21 ◼   ► It's probably iOS rather than Mac OS and wherever, whatever might be next.

01:03:26 ◼   ► I think it is closer to what iOS does and the Mac is amazing at what it does.

01:03:32 ◼   ► It's why I use one every day.

01:03:33 ◼   ► It's why I'm talking to people like right now via my Mac as well.

01:03:36 ◼   ► I edit this podcast on my Mac.

01:03:39 ◼   ► It is the device that has all of the power to do the really heavy lifting that I need to do with my production

01:03:44 ◼   ► but absolutely everything else is done on an iPad

01:03:49 ◼   ► So like I use my 10.5 inch as a more traditional iPad

01:03:52 ◼   ► Like I will have that one in a tablet mode with the keyboard wrapped around the back of it and just like read Twitter on it and stuff like that

01:03:58 ◼   ► Like that's what I use that one for

01:03:59 ◼   ► But my big iPad Pro, it's like a laptop

01:04:02 ◼   ► And that's just the way that I like to use it

01:04:04 ◼   ► So I would love to have an iPad in this function

01:04:08 ◼   ► like in this form, it'd be great.

01:04:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I mean, I thought about you

01:04:12 ◼   ► when I was thinking about this,

01:04:13 ◼   ► that you use that 12.9 iPad as a laptop, essentially,

01:04:17 ◼   ► and I don't use, keep my iPad in that laptop case

01:04:21 ◼   ► all the time, but when I travel, I kinda do,

01:04:28 ◼   ► and I like taking the laptop out.

01:04:29 ◼   ► I don't know whether I would use this product or not.

01:04:33 ◼   ► I'm not telling Apple, you should design this product for me

01:04:36 ◼   ► because I may prefer the tablet, but I would be interested in it because I think it would

01:04:41 ◼   ► be a great writing machine because I love writing on my iPad as it is. But I just, I

01:04:47 ◼   ► feel this is probably a good time to wrap this up and kind of call back to last week

01:04:52 ◼   ► and the conversation I had with Jon, which to boil it down was not let's invent future

01:04:58 ◼   ► products that Apple might never do. It was this, which is iOS is a fun, interesting,

01:05:04 ◼   ► young platform in ways that the Mac is not. The Mac is powerful, flexible, but it

01:05:12 ◼   ► is not what iOS is, which is Apple's kind of new platform. Apple also has far more

01:05:19 ◼   ► customers and far more market success on iOS than it does on macOS. Just bottom

01:05:24 ◼   ► line, right? Because of iPhone, predominantly. But as we've talked about,

01:05:29 ◼   ► iPad sales, which are turning around now, which is also a good indicator for this,

01:05:33 ◼   ► But iPad units, there are more iPads out there in use than Macs, right?

01:05:38 ◼   ► That's the fact. It doesn't make as much money, but because they had a lower average selling price,

01:05:43 ◼   ► there are more iPads out there than Macs. Right now, iOS, so interesting platform,

01:05:47 ◼   ► it's only on iPad or iPhone. Why not go other places? That's sort of what John and I were

01:05:51 ◼   ► riffing on last week. Eventually, John said, it needs to go those places. Like, eventually,

01:05:57 ◼   ► it's hard to imagine that there wouldn't be a Surface Studio-like product from Apple.

01:06:00 ◼   ► it's very hard to imagine that. And is that going to be a Mac? Probably not, right?

01:06:06 ◼   ► For all the reasons that we've indicated and that Apple has indicated, like a

01:06:10 ◼   ► touchscreen Mac is probably not something, unless they make some huge

01:06:14 ◼   ► changes in their strategy, probably not going to happen. But that's a really

01:06:19 ◼   ► interesting shape for especially creative users, but you know, in general,

01:06:23 ◼   ► a big desktop touchscreen device sounds good. Okay, well, that's probably

01:06:27 ◼   ► gonna run iOS unless they have a future OS that comes out that's the best of

01:06:30 ◼   ► both worlds, which maybe they will, maybe they won't. And if you're gonna do that

01:06:35 ◼   ► shape, I mean a laptop shape, it's incredibly popular. Three-quarters

01:06:39 ◼   ► of all Macs sold are laptops. People like laptop shapes. And iOS is Apple's hot

01:06:43 ◼   ► platform that's got the most app momentum and it's got, you know, it's got

01:06:47 ◼   ► the most sales already and people are really used to it.

01:06:49 ◼   ► Why not have an iOS laptop? People like that. Apple makes all of this

01:06:54 ◼   ► conversation about fortune 500 companies and fortune 100 companies and how they

01:06:59 ◼   ► have really gotten into iOS and that this is a great source of success for

01:07:04 ◼   ► them in enterprises is iPads and I think you know what? Enterprise people like

01:07:12 ◼   ► they like laptops so I'll throw that in there too. Some of them like laptops and

01:07:19 ◼   ► saying well you can get this iPad with a keyboard maybe let them get a laptop if

01:07:23 ◼   ► if they want, and they still get to use the whole iOS infrastructure that their company

01:07:28 ◼   ► has built in. And then momentum, I mentioned sales seem to be gaining some momentum on

01:07:34 ◼   ► the iPad side and are still going great on the iPhone side, of course. The OS development

01:07:39 ◼   ► feels like it's got momentum. iOS 11 has added a whole lot, which gives me more confidence.

01:07:44 ◼   ► I would not have made this argument maybe a few years ago before the multitasking stuff

01:07:48 ◼   ► and iOS 9 and iOS 11 has made it so much better. So put all that together and you know basically

01:07:54 ◼   ► what I'm saying is let's go. I feel like this is this is where they're going in the future

01:07:58 ◼   ► so let's go there. Let's do it. I'd love to see it and maybe it won't happen or maybe

01:08:03 ◼   ► it won't happen for years but as a thought exercise it's like I think that would be a

01:08:07 ◼   ► great product and I think a lot of people would like it and it wouldn't be for everyone

01:08:11 ◼   ► and I don't think Apple would discontinue all other products and force everybody to

01:08:15 ◼   ► to use an iOS laptop, but I think it could be a great product that a lot of people would

01:08:19 ◼   ► really like.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I completely agree with you. And we'll see. We'll see. Maybe one day. I mean, honestly,

01:08:28 ◼   ► when I read it, it didn't feel like it was a really wild thing to me. I feel like it's

01:08:32 ◼   ► definitely a possibility. I can see it.

01:08:34 ◼   ► I knew this would be the kind of thing that some percentage of people – I don't know

01:08:38 ◼   ► if it's half and half – some percentage of people would look and be like, "Sure,

01:08:40 ◼   ► of course," which is sort of how Jon took it when he and I were talking about it last

01:08:44 ◼   ► is like, yeah, it seems inevitable, doesn't it? And that another group would be like,

01:08:47 ◼   ► this is absolutely bonkers. And that's, I think that's interesting about how we, how

01:08:54 ◼   ► we see the world. But, um, yeah, I think it's just one of those things that I started thinking

01:09:00 ◼   ► about it and I thought, yeah, actually it makes a lot of sense. I, I, and I would love

01:09:04 ◼   ► to see it. What would that be like? What would, what would a brand new iOS device in a new

01:09:09 ◼   ► category where Apple could completely throw away a lot of the baggage of what must be

01:09:15 ◼   ► in a Mac laptop. What would that look like? I'll tell you this also, the people who use

01:09:19 ◼   ► that product would not be complaining about, you know, all the things. I mean, they might

01:09:26 ◼   ► complain about the keyboard, we would see, but they wouldn't be complaining about the

01:09:29 ◼   ► ports, I'll tell you that.

01:09:31 ◼   ► Yeah, because we only need one of them, right?

01:09:35 ◼   ► We only have one.

01:09:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I'd like to, I didn't mention my story, but I would like to see USB-C on that laptop

01:09:43 ◼   ► too.

01:09:44 ◼   ► But you know, we'll see.

01:09:45 ◼   ► We'll see if it ever happens, what it has on it.

01:09:47 ◼   ► But it would make sense.

01:09:48 ◼   ► I think the iPad Pro should probably have USB-C on it, but it doesn't.

01:09:53 ◼   ► Not yet.

01:09:54 ◼   ► All right, it's time for some #AskUpgrade, which is making us triumph from return as

01:09:59 ◼   ► it was missed last week.

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01:10:56 ◼   ► Okay, Jason, Benjamin wants to know, where do you go to find cool wallpapers?

01:11:01 ◼   ► I do a lot of space wallpapers.

01:11:04 ◼   ► So Astronomy Picture of the Day and various NASA websites, all of those pictures are generally

01:11:13 ◼   ► publicly available at full resolution because they're coming from public agencies.

01:11:19 ◼   ► And I will save those out to a little folder on my Mac, or I will drag them into photos

01:11:26 ◼   ► and sync them so that I can have them on my iOS devices.

01:11:29 ◼   ► That's usually where I go.

01:11:31 ◼   ► It's usually space stuff.

01:11:32 ◼   ► I'm currently on my iPad using one of the stock Apple backgrounds with the six rainbow

01:11:36 ◼   ► colors and an orange background, which is pretty great.

01:11:39 ◼   ► But usually it's, and actually I will put in a plug, I'm using as my home screen background

01:11:45 ◼   ► now, I'm using the Cortex grid iPhone 10 wallpaper by Frank.

01:11:52 ◼   ► And I like that too.

01:11:53 ◼   ► I guess Relay FM membership is another way to get some,

01:11:56 ◼   ► but the space stuff is generally

01:11:58 ◼   ► from the astronomy picture of the day

01:12:00 ◼   ► and various NASA websites.

01:12:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I use either a Relay FM membership wallpaper.

01:12:06 ◼   ► If you're a member, there's a bunch of options available

01:12:10 ◼   ► to you for desktop and mobile wallpapers.

01:12:13 ◼   ► So if you're a Relay FM member, check links to emails,

01:12:17 ◼   ► with emails we sent you, it has all the links in there

01:12:19 ◼   ► where you can go and grab these.

01:12:21 ◼   ► If you're a new member, you get them when you sign up,

01:12:23 ◼   ► link to download them all. You can go and check those out, they're amazing. I use those.

01:12:28 ◼   ► But for my lock screen, I use photos. I have a picture of me underneath there now. Like

01:12:32 ◼   ► on my iPhone. On my iPads, I actually use the old Mac wallpapers that Steven and Frank

01:12:41 ◼   ► put together, which are hilarious and I love it. I love using these old Mac wallpapers

01:12:48 ◼   ► like from Tiger and I think I use Tiger and Snow Leopard I think because Tiger was my

01:12:58 ◼   ► first Mac was running Tiger so that means something to me and I love the space ones

01:13:04 ◼   ► that they used and Snow Leopard is my favourite so my iPads use those because I think that's

01:13:08 ◼   ► kind of funny but with my iPhones I use either the relay phone member stuff and personal

01:13:14 ◼   ► pictures.

01:13:15 ◼   ► Chris asks, "I'm thinking of buying an Apple Watch as a gift for a non-techie family member."

01:13:21 ◼   ► So Chris's instinct would be to get the Series 3, but he says, "I'm not sure that they would

01:13:25 ◼   ► care about it."

01:13:26 ◼   ► So with cellular and GPS aside, what other gains do you get with the Series 3 that are

01:13:33 ◼   ► not in the Series 1?

01:13:38 ◼   ► It's speed waterproofing swimming related and um, speak, uh, Siri, um, speaking out

01:13:48 ◼   ► loud.

01:13:49 ◼   ► So there's a whole bunch of things.

01:13:50 ◼   ► Now it was a little bit different when it was between series one and series two where

01:13:54 ◼   ► it was really just the swimming stuff, the waterproof stuff, but with series three, um,

01:14:00 ◼   ► it is the, uh, it is also, it's a lot faster.

01:14:03 ◼   ► I think they have the same screen, but it's a lot faster and it's got the it's it's Siri

01:14:08 ◼   ► is able to speak out loud, which is nice.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that the swimming is great and the speed is great. That's what I would underscore

01:14:19 ◼   ► those features. If that person's a swimmer, it's perfect for them, right? Because it's

01:14:25 ◼   ► the only one that is officially supported for swimming and it has swimming senses in

01:14:31 ◼   ► it for when you exercise, which is fantastic. And I think the overall speed turned the Apple

01:14:36 ◼   ► watching to really a watch computer for me like a risk computer like it has gotten so

01:14:41 ◼   ► much better and it continues to get better and better so they would be the reasons um

01:14:45 ◼   ► if they're a non-techie family member they probably might not even care about the speed

01:14:48 ◼   ► i don't know and i don't know if they care about series so it might be worth getting

01:14:52 ◼   ► the series one but if that seems like either of those features speak to that person then

01:14:56 ◼   ► great and or if you want a red uh want to read the watch. if you want lt i don't know

01:15:01 ◼   ► but yeah that's you end up going to pretty expensive at that point yeah.

01:15:06 ◼   ► Todd asked, "Jason, what blog creation software do you use? Do you use something like Bloggo

01:15:10 ◼   ► or Mars Edit or some kind of built-in CMS editor?"

01:15:16 ◼   ► The short version is I generally write in a text editor and then use the browser to

01:15:22 ◼   ► post things to Six Colors or the--actually from a MacWorld column for the MacWorld CMS.

01:15:29 ◼   ► I don't write in--never write in the CMS, first off. I think most people know that,

01:15:33 ◼   ► for writing the CMS. I have used MarsEdit in the past and I've just been trying it

01:15:38 ◼   ► out again recently. One of my challenges with MarsEdit is that we have a whole

01:15:43 ◼   ► bunch of custom things in the Six Collars CMS that it sort of works and

01:15:51 ◼   ► sort of doesn't, but the last time I used it it actually worked pretty well so I

01:15:57 ◼   ► think maybe some that Daniel Jalkut who does MarsEdit fixed those

01:16:01 ◼   ► things and so and so I'm using it more Dan Morin I think uses Mars Edit for all

01:16:07 ◼   ► of his all of his six color stuff that he writes for our CMS so yeah but mostly

01:16:14 ◼   ► I just write in a text editor and then I will take... Which is BB Edit for you right mostly?

01:16:18 ◼   ► BB Edit and and it's editorial now for the most part on iOS although it goes

01:16:22 ◼   ► back and forth the yeah and if I can paste in markdown because I write in

01:16:30 ◼   ► Markdown, I do that. For Mac world, I convert it to HTML using the Markdown script and then

01:16:36 ◼   ► paste that in, but I write in Markdown in a text editor generally and then just paste

01:16:40 ◼   ► in the CMS.

01:16:41 ◼   ► So our next question comes from Ian and Ian says, "I recently bought my wife an iPad Pro

01:16:48 ◼   ► for her birthday. What apps do you recommend for serious research-based writing? She is

01:16:53 ◼   ► working on her doctoral thesis."

01:16:57 ◼   ► I don't have a lot of experience with this,

01:17:00 ◼   ► although this was a Twitter thread that happened.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And so I think Ian has gotten some answers on Twitter.

01:17:07 ◼   ► What I told Ian and I think has been backed up is,

01:17:10 ◼   ► the two long form iOS apps

01:17:13 ◼   ► that I've heard people using a lot

01:17:15 ◼   ► are Scrivener and Ulysses.

01:17:17 ◼   ► So I recommend them.

01:17:18 ◼   ► There may be others,

01:17:19 ◼   ► but I think it's worth looking at Scrivener and Ulysses

01:17:22 ◼   ► 'cause I've heard of people

01:17:23 ◼   ► who've done doctoral dissertations on both of those apps.

01:17:28 ◼   ► So they've got lots of extra stuff for research purposes.

01:17:33 ◼   ► So it's worth checking them both out.

01:17:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, if you're doing the writing

01:17:36 ◼   ► and the researching in one place,

01:17:37 ◼   ► I believe that they're the best

01:17:39 ◼   ► from like people that I know

01:17:40 ◼   ► that do similar types of stuff, Federico basically.

01:17:43 ◼   ► And Justin asked, on my watch,

01:17:46 ◼   ► when I finish in the pool or the shower

01:17:48 ◼   ► and press the eject water,

01:17:50 ◼   ► does the tone that plays do anything

01:17:52 ◼   ► or is it just for show?

01:17:53 ◼   ► So it is doing something.

01:17:55 ◼   ► So what happens is the Apple Watch is perfectly sealed

01:17:59 ◼   ► except for the speaker.

01:18:00 ◼   ► And there's a little chamber that sits inside of the speaker

01:18:03 ◼   ► which can fill up with water.

01:18:04 ◼   ► And what that tone is doing is spitting the water

01:18:07 ◼   ► out of the speaker chamber.

01:18:09 ◼   ► So therefore keeping things nice and dry

01:18:11 ◼   ► inside of your watch.

01:18:12 ◼   ► And I've seen it.

01:18:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, a tone is vibration, right?

01:18:17 ◼   ► A tone is a vibration of the membrane of the speaker.

01:18:20 ◼   ► And in this case, the tone is vibrating the speaker

01:18:23 ◼   ► so that the water gets shot out.

01:18:25 ◼   ► So it's, we almost did this last week

01:18:28 ◼   ► and the way John Syracuse put it is something like,

01:18:32 ◼   ► yeah, that's what it does.

01:18:34 ◼   ► It does what it does.

01:18:36 ◼   ► The tone is the ejection of the water.

01:18:38 ◼   ► They go together.

01:18:39 ◼   ► Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, bloop.

01:18:41 ◼   ► - That's where it goes, just like that.

01:18:42 ◼   ► - That's exactly, well done.

01:18:44 ◼   ► - If you're interested in knowing the sound,

01:18:46 ◼   ► I hear it a lot.

01:18:47 ◼   ► So that's what it does.

01:18:48 ◼   ► and I think it's funny and it's funny to see the water spitting out of it, which doesn't

01:18:52 ◼   ► happen every time but every now and then you'll see it. So watch for it and you'll see it

01:18:57 ◼   ► happen. There you go. So that is Ask Upgrade. #AskUpgrade. If you want any questions for

01:19:02 ◼   ► us to answer at the end of the show, you just tweet them out with the #AskUpgrade and they

01:19:06 ◼   ► will go into our list. There is lots of very important information in the show notes today.

01:19:10 ◼   ► You can find them in your app of choice or relay.fm/upgrade/169. That includes the fourth

01:19:16 ◼   ► annual Upgrades voting form and links to our merchandise which is available until the end

01:19:22 ◼   ► of this week. I will be reminding you about the Upgrades voting form next week so don't

01:19:27 ◼   ► worry but you should go fill it out because you don't have a ton of time, just a couple

01:19:31 ◼   ► of weeks to get that sorted and get your entries in for the Upgrades. I want to thank our sponsors

01:19:37 ◼   ► for this week's episode, Balance Open, Text Expander from Smile and Encapsular for supporting

01:19:42 ◼   ► the show. And of course, thank you for listening. As always, you can find Jason online at sixcolors.com

01:19:48 ◼   ► and he is on Twitter @jsnell. I am @imike and we'll be back next time. Until then, say

01:19:55 ◼   ► goodbye Jason Snell.

01:19:57 ◼   ► The upgrade program was presented by Jason Snell and Myke Hurley. Executive producers

01:20:01 ◼   ► for Real AFM were Myke Hurley and Stephen Hackett. Our artwork was created by Frank

01:20:05 ◼   ► Forgotten Towel. Our theme music is by Christopher Breen. This episode was edited by Myke Hurley.

01:20:11 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:20:14 ◼   ► [ Music ]