Upgrade

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00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 176.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Anchor, and SaneBox.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:22 ◼   ► >> Hello, Myke Hurley.

00:00:22 ◼   ► You know, 175, I don't think we even made a big thing of it.

00:00:25 ◼   ► That was a pretty good number last week, but we just blew on past it.

00:00:27 ◼   ► I guess onward to 200.

00:00:29 ◼   ► 176 is even nicer because it's one more.

00:00:31 ◼   ► - Okay, sure.

00:00:33 ◼   ► This is the highest number we have ever done.

00:00:36 ◼   ► - That we've ever done.

00:00:38 ◼   ► That is quite a thing to remark upon.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Our Snell Talk question,

00:00:41 ◼   ► our hashtag Snell Talk question this week

00:00:43 ◼   ► comes from friend of the show, Mr. Todd Visserie.

00:00:46 ◼   ► And Todd asks, "Jason, if you are restricted

00:00:50 ◼   ► "to only one Star Wars film for the rest of your life,

00:00:55 ◼   ► "which one would it be, and you can take into account

00:00:58 ◼   ► theatrical and/or special edition for this. So you have to pick a specific movie and if

00:01:04 ◼   ► there are different versions you can pick within that version if you would like to.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Well the good news is this is an easier answer than you would think because I'm a Star Trek fan.

00:01:18 ◼   ► No no it's Star Wars Jason! Star War!

00:01:25 ◼   ► I grew up in, you know, I was born in 1970, so I grew up in the 70s and it's impossible to be a

00:01:32 ◼   ► six, seven, eight year old kid, uh, when star Wars comes out and not be conversant in and a fan of

00:01:39 ◼   ► star Wars. Just it's, it was for those who were younger than me, it was impossible. Like for those

00:01:44 ◼   ► who don't remember life without star Wars being around, trust me, there was that moment when you're

00:01:49 ◼   ► a kid and Star Wars happens and that whole generation is just, I mean, Star Wars is written

00:01:55 ◼   ► on my generation essentially. But I, anyway, I would pick the Empire Strikes Back and I would

00:02:04 ◼   ► pick the theatrical edition, which is of course not available on home video unless the harmies

00:02:11 ◼   ► the specialized edition falls off the back of a truck. And yeah, that one, the Empire Strikes Back,

00:02:18 ◼   ► for various reasons that we don't have to get into here, but you know, short version is,

00:02:22 ◼   ► I like the original Star Wars and the Empire Strikes Back kind of equally, but there's more

00:02:28 ◼   ► to the Empire Strikes Back. It jumps straight into the story because we don't have to introduce

00:02:33 ◼   ► all the characters. It's more of a movie than the original Star Wars is, as much as I love

00:02:44 ◼   ► love the original Star Wars so I would go with Empire Strikes Back.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I don't know if I've ever shared this controversial opinion of mine on a podcast before but I'm

00:02:51 ◼   ► going to. The original Star Wars A New Hope I actually find in places to be quite boring

00:02:59 ◼   ► compared to the other movies. Like I watched the original one and I'm like "oh this is

00:03:05 ◼   ► very slow". I hear that well I mean I think there's truth

00:03:10 ◼   ► to that when I say that the you know it has to establish everything right and so you've

00:03:17 ◼   ► got a lot of parts that are art it's taking its time also it's not a worldwide phenomenon

00:03:24 ◼   ► yet and there's only so much money they can spend and so you know there's like let's just

00:03:28 ◼   ► have the robots walk in the desert for a while yeah and stuff like that and yeah so it's

00:03:33 ◼   ► a different it's a different thing and I do I do love it for a lot of reasons also the

00:03:36 ◼   ► other thing about Star Wars, the original Star Wars, is that it's, I mean, pro or con

00:03:46 ◼   ► is that it's a very simple film, if you think about the plot of it, to the point where I

00:03:50 ◼   ► was talking to my wife about this, like, she would always have trouble remembering what

00:03:54 ◼   ► happened in the original Star Wars. Because you get the feeling like, okay, well, so they

00:03:59 ◼   ► meet up and blow up the Death Star and what else happens in that movie? And the answer

00:04:04 ◼   ► is "Nope, that's it. That's all that happens in that movie." It ends and you're like, "That's

00:04:09 ◼   ► it? That's the end?" It's like, "Yeah, that's it. That's all that happens in this one."

00:04:12 ◼   ► And that can be seen as a positive or a negative. It's definitely not overstuffed, but despite my

00:04:19 ◼   ► love of that one and the nostalgia about that one, Empire Strikes Back made when they no longer had

00:04:25 ◼   ► to worry about justifying their budget and they could pack a lot more stuff in and they had more

00:04:31 ◼   ► ability to do special effects and there's just so many reasons why and I think the script is just

00:04:36 ◼   ► really good. I think the dialogue is great. There's just there's a lot in there. The fact that that I

00:04:43 ◼   ► can watch that now and notice things that I've never noticed before says a lot about that that

00:04:46 ◼   ► film so I pick that one. And maybe for the first time ever I have a secondary snow talk question

00:04:53 ◼   ► related to the first which comes from Joe Steele because Joe asked in reply to Todd's question,

00:04:59 ◼   ► Jason, how cruel is Todd's question?

00:05:01 ◼   ► It's not so bad because I'm not John Syracuse or I'm not Dan Morin. Star Wars is not... I like

00:05:14 ◼   ► Star Wars a lot but I would never put Star Wars fandom at the top of my fandom list and I think

00:05:21 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure it's at the top of Dan's and John's fandom and as a result I could get by

00:05:25 ◼   ► watching only one Star Wars film ever. I would prefer not to, but I could get by because

00:05:29 ◼   ► there's a bunch of other stuff that I love too. So that's, that's, it's not so bad.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So thank you so much to Todd and Joe for their #SNELTalk questions. If you have a question

00:05:41 ◼   ► visual effects industry for sending us questions. If you are in the visual effects industry

00:05:48 ◼   ► or not, it's not important. You can send in a question to open the show with the #SNELTalk.

00:05:55 ◼   ► You got me there Jason Snell, I've got to get through this.

00:05:57 ◼   ► #SnellTalk to get your question in for the beginning of the show.

00:06:02 ◼   ► And we move into follow up.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Last week we had a Ask Upgrade question asking why do Final Cut Pro and Logic not offer free

00:06:12 ◼   ► trials?

00:06:14 ◼   ► And we made, we had a discussion about it, we spoke about the constraints of the App

00:06:18 ◼   ► Store, etc, etc.

00:06:20 ◼   ► We had pointed out to us by many people, but somebody on Twitter via the name @Klesias

00:06:26 ◼   ► was the first to point out that Apple does indeed very peculiarly offer a trial for Final

00:06:33 ◼   ► Cup Pro which is a direct download from Apple's website.

00:06:38 ◼   ► You have to enter in a bunch of information.

00:06:39 ◼   ► 30 day free trial.

00:06:40 ◼   ► And you get a 30 day free trial.

00:06:43 ◼   ► And honestly...

00:06:44 ◼   ► That's so, so old school Apple.

00:06:47 ◼   ► Like I can't believe...

00:06:48 ◼   ► I knew that they did this, I just kind of assumed that they didn't do it anymore because

00:06:53 ◼   ► it's so unlike what Apple's current policies are, but obviously somebody's like, "Look,

00:06:58 ◼   ► there's no way we're going to make a go of it with Final Cut if we can't offer a demo,

00:07:02 ◼   ► so let's offer a 30-day trial." So Final Cut has one, logic doesn't, but Final Cut does.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Final Cut does.

00:07:09 ◼   ► I like Final Cat.

00:07:10 ◼   ► Final Cat. Who is the Final Cat? I don't know, but he's a pro.

00:07:15 ◼   ► Wait, what was the last cat name of OS X? That's the final cat. That's Final Cat Pro.

00:07:24 ◼   ► So is that Mountain Lion?

00:07:25 ◼   ► Mountain Lion, yeah, I think that was it. So yeah, you can get it. I'm concerned now

00:07:33 ◼   ► that there are people inside of Apple that don't notice exists and then next week this

00:07:37 ◼   ► page mysteriously disappears because we've mentioned it.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:07:41 ◼   ► Can you imagine?

00:07:42 ◼   ► You saw nothing. We were never here. You saw nothing. I would say instead, hey, those people

00:07:47 ◼   ► who are listening, Logic Pro trial, please.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Yeah. There was also Matthew pointed out, this is a really good piece of follow up as

00:07:56 ◼   ► well, that you can actually get Logic and Final Cut for $200 of part of Apple's education

00:08:03 ◼   ► bundle, which you buy this on Apple's website, and then they send you a bunch of codes that

00:08:09 ◼   ► redeem on the Mac App Store and it includes Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Motion 5, Compressor

00:08:14 ◼   ► 4, and Main Stage 3. So that's for $200. I'm sure that you're supposed to be in education,

00:08:22 ◼   ► but it doesn't look like they have any way that you need to prove it. So go at it. $200,

00:08:30 ◼   ► you get all of it. Maybe you do have to prove at some point, but then if you are in education,

00:08:34 ◼   ► this is a great deal for you.

00:08:35 ◼   ► education? Do you have a student in your house? Have you been educated before?

00:08:39 ◼   ► Would you like to learn something that is related to these applications? So yeah,

00:08:44 ◼   ► you can go and you can get that and $200 is a fantastic deal for those

00:08:49 ◼   ► applications. So if that is a thing that you can do then great you should go for

00:08:53 ◼   ► it because that's worth it. So we have this is one of those follow-up things

00:08:58 ◼   ► that we have heard from a bunch this week and thank you to everybody who took

00:09:03 ◼   ► the time to write in to let us know. You can stop telling us now.

00:09:08 ◼   ► We also spoke about our Snell Talk question last week as I asked you if you used the dark

00:09:14 ◼   ► mode in inverted commas on Mac OS. You said no because there was no dark mode. It's just

00:09:20 ◼   ► a menu bar. So Jordan sent in to us a link to a Medium post from a friend of the show,

00:09:26 ◼   ► Guillaume Rambaud, who is @_inside on Twitter, who's a really excellent person to follow

00:09:32 ◼   ► on Twitter. If you don't, you should because they've, like Steve Trout and Smith, find

00:09:37 ◼   ► a bunch of like just fascinating things from digging inside of code on iOS and Mac OS.

00:09:45 ◼   ► And one of the things that Rabo found was a code and mention and UI elements for entire

00:09:54 ◼   ► dark themes for basically every piece of Apple Chrome inside of Mac OS. It is also possible

00:10:01 ◼   ► to enable this but I would probably suggest that you don't but it's possible to do so I think that

00:10:08 ◼   ► this shows that this either is or was being worked on. Yeah I think was is probably the case I think

00:10:17 ◼   ► this goes back to like El Capitan at least I remember when this came out the idea was that

00:10:25 ◼   ► we thought we were going to get a dark mode instead it was the dark menu bar it turned out there were

00:10:29 ◼   ► bits of dark mode in the system, but it wasn't ever put through

00:10:35 ◼   ► and never touched upon later.

00:10:37 ◼   ► So that was the source of some of my grumpiness last week about the fact

00:10:40 ◼   ► that there isn't a dark mode is that we know that the work was done, but what

00:10:45 ◼   ► we got was a dark doc and menu bar.

00:10:48 ◼   ► And like I said, I don't think that's enough.

00:10:50 ◼   ► Um, You know, my example was like, you open a, a safari favorites list and it,

00:10:56 ◼   ► you know, for a new page and it's just a white screen and maybe in dark mode that would be a

00:11:00 ◼   ► black screen with white text, but no, it's not. So yeah, it's there. Maybe they'll revisit this

00:11:07 ◼   ► sometime, although I feel like not very optimistic about it given the fact that they went

00:11:12 ◼   ► pretty far down that path and then decided not to ship it.

00:11:16 ◼   ► So we now have more media news to talk about. So before we do, I want to take a slight sidebar.

00:11:25 ◼   ► Since I have started to want to include this into this show because I think it's important

00:11:31 ◼   ► And I know that I don't hear this type of discussion on any other Apple show that I listen to

00:11:37 ◼   ► But I think we both agree that this is clearly an important thing for Apple. So therefore warrants discussion on this show

00:11:44 ◼   ► Since we had decided to start doing this

00:11:47 ◼   ► Basically every week or every two weeks there has been some news of some description

00:11:51 ◼   ► So, I think that this now warrants its own segment name, but I can't think of one.

00:11:58 ◼   ► So upgradeions, tweet to me and give me suggestions for what we can call this media segment.

00:12:05 ◼   ► And I have a couple of rules here.

00:12:06 ◼   ► I don't want alliteration, so I don't want Myke's Media something.

00:12:11 ◼   ► That's not...

00:12:12 ◼   ► Like if you look, typically our segment names, already in the chat room we have alliteration

00:12:18 ◼   ► with my name. Myke's Media Menagerie as Kate has suggested. So that's the first and last

00:12:24 ◼   ► time you're going to hear that. Kate, it's a great suggestion. I just don't want it.

00:12:29 ◼   ► Because as you may know, our segment names, which we do have, they tend to be hashtags

00:12:34 ◼   ► or they tend to be just one words. That's kind of what I like for this stuff. You can

00:12:38 ◼   ► see it in the naming of basically every show that I'm on. I like things to be nice and

00:12:42 ◼   ► concise. If you have any suggestions, please send them to me. I'm @imike on Twitter.

00:12:52 ◼   ► Apple have signed yet more television shows.

00:13:06 ◼   ► was signed a straight to TV offer from a project by Steven Knight, creator of Peaky Blinders,

00:13:12 ◼   ► and Francis Lawrence, who is the director of some Hunger Games movies. This project

00:13:17 ◼   ► is called CSEE, and is described as, this is from Deadline, "an epic world-building

00:13:23 ◼   ► drama set in the future." This isn't the only future thing they've got, right? We were talking

00:13:30 ◼   ► about science fiction thing. The Ron Moore project is a science fiction project too,

00:13:36 ◼   ► This is also direct to series because Apple is not interested in seeing your pilot because

00:13:41 ◼   ► they don't have enough time to launch this, whatever this service is going to be with

00:13:47 ◼   ► the pilot development process. So they're taking the scripts and the pitch and they're

00:13:50 ◼   ► going straight to series eight episodes, make the eight episodes, you know, because that's

00:13:54 ◼   ► the other way TV development happens is they approve the script, they give you money to

00:13:58 ◼   ► shoot a sample episode called a pilot, and then they look at the pilot and they maybe

00:14:03 ◼   ► test it with audiences or the executives look at it and then they say yes or no. Apple's

00:14:09 ◼   ► just like, "Mm-mm. Here's your money. Eight episodes. Go."

00:14:14 ◼   ► - Just make it good. That's all we ask. Please just make it good. So I think it's clear that

00:14:20 ◼   ► they are working with people that have creds, right? Which is why they're picking specifically

00:14:25 ◼   ► because they're taking gambles on these. This will likely be eight episodes with one season

00:14:31 ◼   ► Order. This is now the fourth scripted show that Apple has ordered. We missed one over

00:14:37 ◼   ► the holiday break.

00:14:38 ◼   ► Oh yeah, okay, so there's Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon's morning show drama,

00:14:42 ◼   ► there is Ron Moore's alternate space race story where the space race continued past

00:14:47 ◼   ► the 60s and 70s, there's See, the world building drama set in the future, whatever that means.

00:14:54 ◼   ► like saying plot filled story world building drama but okay and uh... and

00:15:00 ◼   ► there is there is well there is the steven spielberg thing as well

00:15:03 ◼   ► oh there's amazing amazing stories that's also scripted so that's that's

00:15:06 ◼   ► that's like a reboot i think it i don't know if if deadline it's a it's a it's

00:15:10 ◼   ► a labor it's an anthology series okay so what else what else are we missing it is

00:15:14 ◼   ► called are you sleeping um it stars oscar winner octavia spencer and has

00:15:19 ◼   ► come from reece witherspoon's hello sunshine production company you may

00:15:23 ◼   ► remember this because the morning show drama also came from Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine

00:15:30 ◼   ► production company and she's starring in it. So I thought that was really interesting that

00:15:35 ◼   ► obviously there is a good relationship here because Apple have ordered two of the shows

00:15:39 ◼   ► that her company is working on. Deadline describes Are You Sleeping as a unique glimpse into

00:15:46 ◼   ► America's obsession with true crime podcasts and challenges its viewers to consider the

00:15:52 ◼   ► consequences when the pursuit of justice is placed on a public stage and even more interestingly

00:16:00 ◼   ► Sarah Koenig the creator of Serial is consulting on the series.

00:16:05 ◼   ► Yeah it's like sort of Serial the television series but sort of like the making of a podcast

00:16:12 ◼   ► like Serial. I like this premise like the idea of like we all seem to like these true

00:16:17 ◼   ► crimey type things but what happens when you put justice to the masses that's kind of the

00:16:22 ◼   ► way that I'm looking at this and I kind of like this. Like if you look at what was happening

00:16:28 ◼   ► during like season one of Serial, it seemed to get a little bit wild for some time.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Right.

00:16:36 ◼   ► Uh, and yeah, so I'm, I'm keen, I'm, I'm kind of keen to see how that plays out.

00:16:41 ◼   ► I'm definitely more interested in this show than in the sitcom about Alex from Gimlet

00:16:49 ◼   ► starring Zach Braff.

00:16:51 ◼   ► Yeah, that just doesn't look good, right?

00:16:54 ◼   ► I would be interested in it in the same way that I was interested in StartUp.

00:16:58 ◼   ► I liked StartUp the original season, but the show just doesn't look like a very high quality

00:17:04 ◼   ► comedy show.

00:17:08 ◼   ► So yeah, they're the ones that we missed.

00:17:09 ◼   ► But then there is also a documentary series called Home.

00:17:14 ◼   ► It is a 10 episode documentary series that takes viewers inside the world's most extraordinary

00:17:18 ◼   ► homes and unveils the boundary pushing imagination of the visionaries who dared to dream and

00:17:24 ◼   ► build them. I don't really have any opinion on that, but it is a documentary series. That

00:17:30 ◼   ► doesn't really seem to push my buttons very much, but that stuff exists, you know, like

00:17:34 ◼   ► these homie type shows.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Well, one of the things that they need to explore is other kinds of content, right?

00:17:39 ◼   ► Yes, definitely.

00:17:40 ◼   ► That is not scripted. And they've hired people who have history and scripted, but I think

00:17:43 ◼   ► they've also hired some people who have a history and unscripted, and they want to,

00:17:46 ◼   ► You know, you don't want, if you're Apple and you want to go out with this, you don't

00:17:49 ◼   ► want everything to be a sci-fi show.

00:17:51 ◼   ► You don't want everything to be the Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston show.

00:17:56 ◼   ► You want a kind of a variety so you can appeal to a bunch of different people.

00:18:00 ◼   ► And this is interesting because it's a docuseries.

00:18:03 ◼   ► So it's reality in a way, but it's really an unscripted, you know, it's unscripted in

00:18:09 ◼   ► that big thing.

00:18:10 ◼   ► It's not like a reality competition show or something like that, like Planet of the Apps

00:18:13 ◼   ► was.

00:18:14 ◼   ► It is a different kind of thing.

00:18:16 ◼   ► But they'll probably do more of that too because they wanted to have a pretty broad set of

00:18:22 ◼   ► offerings for whatever they launch.

00:18:24 ◼   ► And eventually movies as well, right?

00:18:28 ◼   ► There will be an offering.

00:18:29 ◼   ► I would imagine that that will come next, but it would not surprise me.

00:18:33 ◼   ► So just as I said last year that you will see announcements of names you recognize,

00:18:40 ◼   ► actors and also creators signing with Apple.

00:18:42 ◼   ► and Tim Goodman and I talked about this a lot

00:18:44 ◼   ► on the TV Talk Machine podcast every week.

00:18:46 ◼   ► You will, at some point at a film festival,

00:18:49 ◼   ► you will see Apple make a deal

00:18:51 ◼   ► to buy distribution rights for a film,

00:18:54 ◼   ► like Netflix does, like Amazon does.

00:18:56 ◼   ► You will see that, that's gonna happen.

00:18:58 ◼   ► I'm not sure that will happen for a while, it might,

00:19:02 ◼   ► but my guess is that they're gonna focus

00:19:05 ◼   ► on series development for now,

00:19:07 ◼   ► but I mean, movies is part of it,

00:19:09 ◼   ► and there are prestige reasons for that,

00:19:11 ◼   ► And they're also just sort of like filling out the, you know, filling out the content

00:19:16 ◼   ► catalog of whatever this service is going to be. So that it'll probably happen at some point.

00:19:20 ◼   ► So that's the end of our unnamed media segment for this episode.

00:19:26 ◼   ► Please send in your suggestions. I would like to hear them.

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00:20:59 ◼   ► So go to anchor.fm, that's a-n-c-h-o-r dot f-m slash Myke Hurley to check it out and leave

00:21:04 ◼   ► me an AMA question.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Our thanks to Anchor for their support of this show.

00:21:09 ◼   ► All right, so it is January and January means wishlist time.

00:21:16 ◼   ► So we are going to do an iOS ecosystem wishlist, including hardware and software.

00:21:24 ◼   ► So dream time, dream time, everybody.

00:21:26 ◼   ► So we're going to break this down into hardware and then into talking about iOS 12.

00:21:31 ◼   ► And this was, uh, like many, many things in the show, so prompted from an article that

00:21:36 ◼   ► you wrote over at Mac world.

00:21:38 ◼   ► So let's break this down.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Let's start with the iPhone.

00:21:42 ◼   ► So what do we want from the iPhone?

00:21:44 ◼   ► More iPhones?

00:21:45 ◼   ► Is that what we want, Jason?

00:21:46 ◼   ► Do we want bigger iPhones?

00:21:47 ◼   ► Do we want smaller iPhones?

00:21:48 ◼   ► What do we want?

00:21:49 ◼   ► Well, I, um, yes.

00:21:53 ◼   ► my list I put in, I think the next step logically is to do an iPhone X Plus if they can manage

00:22:01 ◼   ► to get a bigger OLED screen because I think people have shown boundless enthusiasm for

00:22:07 ◼   ► larger phones and even though I've never been one of those people who's like "Oh, give me

00:22:11 ◼   ► that really big phone, I never really liked the iPhone Plus line," I know people do and

00:22:15 ◼   ► although the X is bigger, the X is a satisfying size for somebody like me, so logically it

00:22:21 ◼   ► would mean that if I'm a small phone person or at least a not big phone person and I like

00:22:27 ◼   ► the iPhone X, that probably means there's room for a larger model that other people

00:22:32 ◼   ► will like that perhaps even you. So I feel like on that side there should probably be

00:22:39 ◼   ► -- and I want to see the iPhone SE get an update because it's been a couple of years

00:22:43 ◼   ► and I think it's time -- but those are sort of like the edges of iPhone hardware where

00:22:47 ◼   ► I think that we could see some progression.

00:22:50 ◼   ► And otherwise with the iPhone 8,

00:22:53 ◼   ► I think it's a real question of like,

00:22:55 ◼   ► will there be an iPhone 8S or maybe just an iPhone 9

00:22:59 ◼   ► that sort of like is the last of the classic iPhone?

00:23:04 ◼   ► Probably, maybe, maybe that's the one that's been rumored.

00:23:08 ◼   ► That's got no OLED screen, but does have face ID

00:23:11 ◼   ► and doesn't have a button anymore for touch ID

00:23:15 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:23:16 ◼   ► I don't know or whether it's simply a faster version of the 8 and doesn't add all those

00:23:21 ◼   ► fancy sensors and stuff like that.

00:23:24 ◼   ► But that's not on my wish list, I'm just kind of curious about that.

00:23:27 ◼   ► I think an SE revision, because there are people who like the small phone, it is popular

00:23:31 ◼   ► and it's great at holding down the lower end of the iPhone price list.

00:23:36 ◼   ► It's a good product to have.

00:23:39 ◼   ► Like the Mac Mini, it is one of these things that's like, it's good to have it around,

00:23:42 ◼   ► I think.

00:23:43 ◼   ► though it's never going to be everybody's favorite, it's going to have a group of people

00:23:48 ◼   ► who like it, it's never going to be your number one seller, but it's good to have it there.

00:23:52 ◼   ► But I'm curious, are you intrigued by the idea of an iPhone X Plus?

00:23:57 ◼   ► If it has the same features as the iPhone X regular size, yes.

00:24:02 ◼   ► Sure. I mean, maybe it'll have like three cameras on the back, Myke. I don't know.

00:24:07 ◼   ► It's not going to happen with a Plus model. So a couple of weeks ago on Connected, we

00:24:12 ◼   ► did our like predictions for the year and one of my predictions is that there

00:24:17 ◼   ► will be a plus-size phone iPhone 10 phone but it won't have an OLED and oh

00:24:23 ◼   ► interesting that would be a a real kind of sticking point for me like I I don't

00:24:32 ◼   ► know how I would feel about that because I really like the OLED screen like the

00:24:36 ◼   ► OLED of the screen is one of my favorite things about the phone because I love

00:24:40 ◼   ► all of the apps that I use that use these true dark, like true black themes. I think

00:24:45 ◼   ► it's wonderful. And if they had an LCD, the reason I think this by the way is that I think

00:24:51 ◼   ► one of the problems for supply and release of the phone was OLED screens and we've seen

00:24:59 ◼   ► the troubles that Google had with their OLED screens.

00:25:02 ◼   ► "Boy, I have a hard time seeing..." I feel like the OLED screen is part of what makes

00:25:10 ◼   ► the iPhone X the iPhone X. I guess you could argue retroactively if you're Apple, you could

00:25:14 ◼   ► argue, "Well, no, it's really the no button and the screen reaches to the edges of the..."

00:25:19 ◼   ► and all of that. Although my understanding is some of that has to do with the nature

00:25:23 ◼   ► of the OLED screen, that it can kind of be folded down at the edges. So I just have a

00:25:27 ◼   ► hard time seeing something they called an iPhone X Plus that didn't have the OLED screen.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and then my kind of the secondary part that is me thinking like if it is this hard then there just won't be one

00:25:37 ◼   ► This year. I always thought that like from when the phone first came out

00:25:41 ◼   ► I was like I do not imagine them having a plus-size one one year later

00:25:44 ◼   ► Like I was thought it'd be two years later

00:25:46 ◼   ► But if it could be plus-sized iPhone 10 with an OLED screen came out

00:25:51 ◼   ► I would 100% move to it for the reason that I had a plus phone in the first place

00:25:55 ◼   ► I like the biggest screen that I can have like I think it would be wonderful

00:25:59 ◼   ► So here's here's I actually have something from this weekend where I was

00:26:03 ◼   ► When I say I don't want a larger iPhone

00:26:08 ◼   ► I think it has a lot to do with me and and you know

00:26:11 ◼   ► It's probably some ergonomic things like the size of my hands the way I hold the phone and all that and I could probably adapt

00:26:16 ◼   ► but it definitely has a lot to do with how I use my phone and

00:26:21 ◼   ► I had this so over the weekend. We were in in Southern California visiting family and

00:26:27 ◼   ► And I had at one point we were at like a food hall with a bar

00:26:32 ◼   ► and we're sitting there with a bunch of people

00:26:36 ◼   ► from the family and some friends

00:26:39 ◼   ► and we're drinking beer and talking.

00:26:41 ◼   ► And I get a note saying that one of the podcasts

00:26:44 ◼   ► that got posted on the incomparable was showing as what,

00:26:47 ◼   ► 503, which is basically forbidden.

00:26:49 ◼   ► I don't know why this happened.

00:26:52 ◼   ► I still don't know why,

00:26:54 ◼   ► but the permissions were wrong on that file.

00:26:56 ◼   ► And the only way for me to fix the permissions on that file

00:26:58 ◼   ► were to SSH into the Unix server and go to the directory

00:27:03 ◼   ► and do a sudo chmod, you know, plus R to the file,

00:27:08 ◼   ► like all this Unix-y stuff, right?

00:27:12 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:27:12 ◼   ► And the funny thing is you can do that on an iPhone.

00:27:16 ◼   ► And I did it.

00:27:16 ◼   ► I have prompt, the prompt app from panic, I wanna say.

00:27:21 ◼   ► And it was, I totally did it.

00:27:26 ◼   ► And I showed it to Lauren and I said,

00:27:29 ◼   ► look what I just did.

00:27:29 ◼   ► And she's like, "Oh, that's terrifying."

00:27:31 ◼   ► I said, "It is terrifying, but I did it."

00:27:33 ◼   ► That was that moment where I thought, you know what?

00:27:36 ◼   ► If I'm out and about all the time,

00:27:38 ◼   ► which I'm not, and I'm in situations like that,

00:27:44 ◼   ► let me tell you, I'd rather have a bigger phone.

00:27:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, that was why. - So what I'm saying is,

00:27:49 ◼   ► I understand the appeal of the bigger phone because if I found myself in those situations

00:27:54 ◼   ► all the time where I'm out somewhere and have to do something that really would benefit

00:27:59 ◼   ► from a larger screen, I get it then. I would get it then. I just don't find myself in that

00:28:04 ◼   ► situation very often.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean that was my original reason, right? Is that I was trying to like run a

00:28:09 ◼   ► business whilst I had a job and like the reason why I did that was on my iPhone. And whilst

00:28:15 ◼   ► I don't need to do that anymore, like I work at home, I then got used to a bigger screen

00:28:21 ◼   ► phone, right? So I love all of the other things that come with that, so yes, I would love

00:28:25 ◼   ► one. But I do want to ask from you though, what does an iPhone SE2 look like? Like what

00:28:31 ◼   ► does it have? I think it's just the internals of like an iPhone 7 or an iPhone 8, looking

00:28:38 ◼   ► like the iPhone 5, like it still does, like the iPhone, that design, I would imagine it

00:28:44 ◼   ► doesn't have wireless charging or anything like that. I would imagine they will upgrade

00:28:47 ◼   ► the cameras to a more recent iPhone standard. Again, maybe the iPhone 8 cameras, maybe the

00:28:53 ◼   ► iPhone 8 processor or the iPhone 7 processor. So faster and maybe more memory and different

00:29:01 ◼   ► storage options. But I think the way I envision it is they're just going to keep it looking

00:29:07 ◼   ► the way it does. They're not going to invest in a new industrial design. People like that

00:29:10 ◼   ► it has been successful as that, and just upgrade the internals so they can

00:29:14 ◼   ► continue to sell it without having to support the old processor for

00:29:20 ◼   ► two more years, right? I mean, I think that's like one of the number one reasons

00:29:23 ◼   ► you do it is you bring it up to state-of-the-art-ish because you know

00:29:27 ◼   ► people are going to have that phone for three or four years and you're going to

00:29:30 ◼   ► want to roll out iOS updates to them and the current SE is already two years old

00:29:34 ◼   ► and it's really two and a half years old if you look at the processor that's in

00:29:37 ◼   ► it. So that's my that's my thought is is nothing particularly out of the

00:29:42 ◼   ► ordinary just sort of like use the state-of-the-art parts that they use for

00:29:47 ◼   ► the cameras and that they use for the processor and just continue to sell it

00:29:53 ◼   ► as a new iPhone SE at the bottom of the price list. But like if this phone the

00:29:58 ◼   ► SE is considered to be important enough to be in the lineup is it always gonna

00:30:03 ◼   ► look like this? You know, maybe not, but I feel like that design is fine. Like, honestly,

00:30:15 ◼   ► I feel like it's fine. It doesn't look like other iPhones. I'm not sure it needs to look

00:30:20 ◼   ► like other iPhones. It's small. It's the small, chunky, you know, iPhone and the people who

00:30:28 ◼   ► like it continue to like it. So this goes this is similar to our conversations

00:30:33 ◼   ► about the Mac where I say I'm not sure or the Mac Mini or the or the Mac Pro

00:30:40 ◼   ► where it's one of those questions of like how motivated is Apple to invest in

00:30:44 ◼   ► this product because updating the internals is one level of investment.

00:30:49 ◼   ► Redesigning the case is another level of investment and I'm not sure the SE needs

00:30:56 ◼   ► a case redesign and it would cost Apple to do it so maybe they just stick with

00:31:03 ◼   ► this at some point it's possible that that design will be impossible to

00:31:06 ◼   ► continue to make but I'm not sure when that is other than for style reasons and

00:31:11 ◼   ► maybe for style reasons they're just never concerned about it because it's

00:31:14 ◼   ► fine it is what it is it looks like that it is the you know the SE iPhone look so

00:31:19 ◼   ► they don't ever have to change it quite honestly and if they do that'll be a big

00:31:25 ◼   ► moment because they will have to invest in making those decisions. My gut feeling is

00:31:30 ◼   ► that we're not anywhere near there now, that somebody at Apple would say, "No, no, we need

00:31:34 ◼   ► a complete redesign of the SE when we release a new version of it." Because, I mean, they

00:31:38 ◼   ► already released the SE and it's just the iPhone 5 design, so, you know, they've already

00:31:44 ◼   ► passed on that once. I don't see why they wouldn't just keep doing what they're doing.

00:31:50 ◼   ► In regards to the iPhone X, the only hardware improvements that I can think of would maybe

00:31:55 ◼   ► be to making face ID better, if that would even be hardware. You know I would like stuff

00:32:02 ◼   ► like the ability to have more than one face, I would like that eventually. I think it could

00:32:08 ◼   ► do a better job of seeing me in the dark. I definitely have more trouble with it trying

00:32:13 ◼   ► to unlock in low light situations. Whether that should be the case or not, it's true

00:32:19 ◼   ► for me. Um, and I would like it to be able to,

00:32:22 ◼   ► to see me better and in all orientations, sometimes it doesn't.

00:32:27 ◼   ► So I like face ID a lot. Um, I wouldn't want to necessarily,

00:32:32 ◼   ► no, I wouldn't want to go back to touch ID. I like face ID a lot,

00:32:35 ◼   ► but it does really feel sometimes to me like version one touch ID,

00:32:40 ◼   ► like this is really great, but it can be better.

00:32:43 ◼   ► And I'm hoping that face ID two, um,

00:32:46 ◼   ► will be to like touch ID, what touch ID 2 was to touch ID, you know, like huge jumps

00:32:54 ◼   ► because it's out in the world and the algorithm system can get better.

00:32:57 ◼   ► Well, and they may be able to do, you know, things to make, now that it's in the real

00:33:02 ◼   ► world too, they may already, presumably they're already working on what the next thing would

00:33:05 ◼   ► be for that sensor stack in the front of the phone and maybe it's wider field of view or,

00:33:14 ◼   ► know, better able to compensate if you're further away and it's at an angle, or that

00:33:18 ◼   ► your head is tilted, or that the phone is tilted. Like, there are a bunch of things

00:33:22 ◼   ► that I'm sure that the people who are working on that are working on, as well as something

00:33:26 ◼   ► like having additional faces that are capable of being detected and things like that. So,

00:33:32 ◼   ► there's plenty, I mean, as good as it is, and Face ID is really good, it's a 1.0, right?

00:33:38 ◼   ► So there's no doubt that the people who are working on it are finding all sorts of ways

00:33:43 ◼   ► that they can make it better. And when we get to the iPad, there are, it's related there

00:33:48 ◼   ► too, right? When we get there.

00:33:50 ◼   ► So let's move there. Let's talk about iPad hardware. I think first up, do you think we're

00:33:54 ◼   ► going to see iPad hardware in 2018?

00:33:57 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't know. We might not. Like, this is the question is how often, how

00:34:02 ◼   ► often does Apple update the iPad, the iPad Pro? And what we saw is that the, we went

00:34:09 ◼   ► - So what, so we went from the nine seven to the 10 five.

00:34:14 ◼   ► - In 18 months.

00:34:16 ◼   ► - In 18 months, right?

00:34:17 ◼   ► - We went from 12 to 12 in two years.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - In two years.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, effectively, it was just under two years.

00:34:23 ◼   ► - Right, and now they're all synced up, right?

00:34:25 ◼   ► So we had new iPads in the fall.

00:34:30 ◼   ► Was it the fall that we got the new iPads?

00:34:32 ◼   ► - We got them in June, we got them in February.

00:34:34 ◼   ► - Oh, we got them in June.

00:34:35 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:34:35 ◼   ► - Well, so then it really is a coin flip.

00:34:36 ◼   ► Like I think that they could come this fall

00:34:40 ◼   ► or they could come next spring.

00:34:43 ◼   ► And the question is just what pace is Apple on

00:34:45 ◼   ► for the iPad Pro?

00:34:46 ◼   ► Does Apple think that that's a year plus pace

00:34:50 ◼   ► or is that a two year pace or a year and a half pace?

00:34:52 ◼   ► And it could be anywhere between a year and two years.

00:34:55 ◼   ► If I had to guess, my guess is it's most likely

00:34:58 ◼   ► on an early 2019 product.

00:35:01 ◼   ► My hope is that it's a late 2018 product

00:35:03 ◼   ► because I like the iPad Pro

00:35:06 ◼   ► and I'd like to see new models and I'd like to see them to be awesome and

00:35:09 ◼   ► faster. I think it's more likely that we'll get new iPhones in the fall and

00:35:13 ◼   ► then we'll get new iPad Pros based on a processor variation of the new iPhones

00:35:17 ◼   ► in the spring. So I could go either way with the existing iPad Pro

00:35:22 ◼   ► hardware. I would like to see some because I do believe that the next iPad

00:35:27 ◼   ► Pro is likely to be a one that takes its cues from the iPhone 10, not the OLED

00:35:34 ◼   ► screen because that would be bananas. But one day though, ooh, one day. Yes, but I do

00:35:41 ◼   ► think trying to reduce the bezels even more and if they can, going from Touch ID to Face

00:35:47 ◼   ► ID. But this goes back to what we were saying about Face ID a minute ago, which is Face

00:35:51 ◼   ► ID on the iPad is a lot harder because the iPad needs to be held in different orientations,

00:35:56 ◼   ► which means how does that work? Where do they put the sensor? Is the sensor capable of working

00:35:59 ◼   ► in both the orientations? Do they have to do, I don't think they would do two sensors.

00:36:03 ◼   ► seems also way too expensive to do. So I think that's a question is, are they embracing the

00:36:12 ◼   ► new iPhone philosophy in the iPad hardware or not? And if they are, which I hope they

00:36:17 ◼   ► are and I think they would, that even more sounds like a 2019 product than a 2018. As

00:36:23 ◼   ► much as I wish, wish list I wanted at the end, I wanted this fall. But you know, is

00:36:29 ◼   ► that real? Is that realistic? I don't know.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Talking about realistic or maybe unrealistic, what about USB-C?

00:36:39 ◼   ► So I don't know what's going on with... To me, this is one of the biggest questions about

00:36:48 ◼   ► what Apple's doing with the iPad, which is, where does the iPad go? And is Apple aggressively

00:36:54 ◼   ► driving the iPad into a bunch of different places now that it's sort of gotten some traction

00:36:58 ◼   ► with a low cost iPad and it's gotten subtraction

00:37:00 ◼   ► with the iPad Pro, is it gonna kinda keep pushing there?

00:37:04 ◼   ► Or is it gonna just sort of stay back

00:37:08 ◼   ► and we'll see what happens with it?

00:37:10 ◼   ► Because like, if you radically change the iPad Pro

00:37:14 ◼   ► and do things like reduce the bezels

00:37:17 ◼   ► and which might make you like reduce the size

00:37:20 ◼   ► of the 12.9 version, if you update that one,

00:37:22 ◼   ► it could also mean more screen

00:37:25 ◼   ► or it makes the 10.5 even smaller.

00:37:26 ◼   ► there are lots of different ways to go there. Do you also say, well, no, it's really a computer

00:37:31 ◼   ► like to the point where we're going to put a USB-C on it instead of lightning. So don't

00:37:35 ◼   ► even think of lightning for as the iOS connector anymore. It's really, you know, it's for smaller

00:37:40 ◼   ► devices and this thing is more like a computer. So we're going to do USB-C. You won't even

00:37:44 ◼   ► need an adapter, you know, plug in a USB-C ethernet adapter and it'll just work plug

00:37:48 ◼   ► in it, you know, for some of that might require iOS updates if they want to support more USB-C

00:37:54 ◼   ► But I hope they get there. This, though, is the larger question about the iPad, because it happened again this weekend. I wrote about it last year.

00:38:06 ◼   ► Marco Arment tweeted this weekend about how he was retweeting Federico with his bridge keyboard. He got a bridge keyboard like I have for the iPad 12.9.

00:38:17 ◼   ► And he said, maybe Apple needs to make a convertible,

00:38:22 ◼   ► which is that iBook that I wrote about

00:38:26 ◼   ► on Macworld last year.

00:38:28 ◼   ► And again, if this is a wishlist and not a predictions list,

00:38:32 ◼   ► yeah, I'm gonna wish for that.

00:38:34 ◼   ► I'm gonna wish for another iPad, basically, class device

00:38:39 ◼   ► that is something that is more like a PC convertible

00:38:42 ◼   ► or like that Google Pixelbook thing

00:38:46 ◼   ► that is like a convertible laptop tablet

00:38:49 ◼   ► that is primarily a laptop,

00:38:51 ◼   ► but you can turn it into something

00:38:52 ◼   ► that's kind of tablet-ish,

00:38:53 ◼   ► either by, you know,

00:38:55 ◼   ► in some of them it's by disconnecting them,

00:38:57 ◼   ► in others of them it's by flipping them around

00:38:59 ◼   ► so that the keyboard is on the back of the screen.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Would Apple do that?

00:39:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:39:05 ◼   ► Or even a more straightforward sort of iOS laptop,

00:39:07 ◼   ► would Apple do that?

00:39:08 ◼   ► I don't know, there are lots of arguments against it.

00:39:10 ◼   ► I think it would be a really interesting product.

00:39:11 ◼   ► I think it would say something

00:39:13 ◼   ► about where Apple is pushing iOS.

00:39:15 ◼   ► I, it would be malpractice for me to predict it,

00:39:19 ◼   ► but I do kind of wish it.

00:39:21 ◼   ► And that is a product that absolutely

00:39:24 ◼   ► should be a USB-C product, right?

00:39:26 ◼   ► So, but in general, I, on the iPad Pro,

00:39:29 ◼   ► I feel like the iPad Pro should go,

00:39:31 ◼   ► should just embrace USB-C.

00:39:33 ◼   ► That Apple should update iOS

00:39:35 ◼   ► to support more peripherals via USB.

00:39:38 ◼   ► It already supports a lot via adapters,

00:39:40 ◼   ► but you could toss in, like I keep on saying,

00:39:43 ◼   ► like Tostin mass storage support so you could theoretically plug in a thumb drive and open

00:39:48 ◼   ► files and see what's on the thumb drive and copy the files and stuff like that. Things

00:39:53 ◼   ► you do on a laptop today. I don't think it's likely but I really kind of want that to happen.

00:40:02 ◼   ► I would like to see Apple take a step in it by making a keyboard that is like the bridge

00:40:07 ◼   ► keyboard. So they make a keyboard that makes your iPad more like a laptop. They've been

00:40:12 ◼   ► making iPad keyboards since the very very first iPad. I don't know why Apple

00:40:19 ◼   ► have to just make one keyboard and that keyboard needs to be a smart cover like

00:40:24 ◼   ► maybe branch out a little bit more like what if you made something that was low

00:40:28 ◼   ► profile and like even if it had like the current keyboard that you have in the

00:40:33 ◼   ► MacBook Pro for all of its faults like why don't we why don't you just make you

00:40:37 ◼   ► know just give yeah let me see what you can do like something that is wonderful

00:40:42 ◼   ► and smart connected and everything.

00:40:44 ◼   ► - Right, there's a design challenge there

00:40:46 ◼   ► and it may be that they've tried that

00:40:48 ◼   ► and they realize what you have to do

00:40:49 ◼   ► is make changes on the iPad hardware

00:40:51 ◼   ► to do it the way they would want it.

00:40:53 ◼   ► And then every iPad has that

00:40:54 ◼   ► and maybe it makes it a less desirable device

00:40:58 ◼   ► when it's not attached to the keyboard

00:41:01 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:41:02 ◼   ► I mean, there are lots of arguments.

00:41:03 ◼   ► - Every iPad has magnets and a smart connector on it

00:41:06 ◼   ► whether you use it or not.

00:41:07 ◼   ► - Right.

00:41:08 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I agree.

00:41:09 ◼   ► I think at the very least, I would like to see Apple

00:41:13 ◼   ► try to make a more, even when Microsoft came out

00:41:16 ◼   ► with the Surface, like they had two keyboards, right?

00:41:21 ◼   ► They had the flimsy keyboard

00:41:22 ◼   ► and then they had the more rugged keyboard

00:41:24 ◼   ► and Apple has basically said,

00:41:25 ◼   ► no, we're not interested in that.

00:41:27 ◼   ► And I get that there are lots of engineering issues there

00:41:28 ◼   ► and that there are things about the bridge keyboard

00:41:31 ◼   ► because it's got those clips

00:41:32 ◼   ► that you have to slide things into and all that.

00:41:33 ◼   ► There's like, I don't think Apple would make that design,

00:41:37 ◼   ► but I would like to see Apple's take on it

00:41:39 ◼   ► because the third party takes are okay,

00:41:42 ◼   ► but if Apple fully committed to that,

00:41:45 ◼   ► I think it would have to be to a higher standard.

00:41:47 ◼   ► That may be why Apple hasn't committed to it.

00:41:49 ◼   ► But yeah, I think,

00:41:51 ◼   ► and that's why I started to think about the laptop thing too

00:41:53 ◼   ► or the convertible thing.

00:41:54 ◼   ► 'Cause then, you know, it's Apple saying,

00:41:55 ◼   ► well, this isn't just like an accessory for the iPad Pro.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Maybe it's like, it's another iPad or device of some kind

00:42:04 ◼   ► where the keyboard is more integrated,

00:42:07 ◼   ► even though it doesn't have to be in the shape of a laptop all the time, they

00:42:11 ◼   ► could do that if they wanted to. And maybe that would be a more appley thing

00:42:14 ◼   ► to do, saying, "Well, you know, the existing iPad is meant to be primarily a

00:42:19 ◼   ► tablet. This thing is going to be primarily sort of like a thing where the

00:42:22 ◼   ► keyboard stays attached, but you can flip it over or detach it if you need to."

00:42:27 ◼   ► It might be a better product if it's designed like that. But I would

00:42:31 ◼   ► love to see them try because -- and I've written about this a lot, I've talked

00:42:34 ◼   ► about it a lot, but just the short version of it is I want to see Apple

00:42:38 ◼   ► experiment with taking iOS places that it isn't right now, which is some place

00:42:44 ◼   ► that isn't the phone and the iPad. And because I do think that the future of

00:42:48 ◼   ► iOS needs to be in other devices too, and whether that's a laptop or a convertible

00:42:52 ◼   ► or a desktop or I don't know what else, I would like to see it push the boundaries

00:42:58 ◼   ► a little bit. In two areas that will make Mac users maybe uncomfortable, because

00:43:01 ◼   ► 'cause it's like, well, wait a second,

00:43:02 ◼   ► isn't that the max domain?

00:43:04 ◼   ► I feel like there's more gray area there

00:43:05 ◼   ► for Apple to explore if they can get over the fact

00:43:08 ◼   ► that they would end up selling two things

00:43:11 ◼   ► that look like a laptop

00:43:12 ◼   ► and they run different operating systems.

00:43:14 ◼   ► - So, but this is, oh, what about the iPad mini?

00:43:19 ◼   ► - I would like it to continue.

00:43:23 ◼   ► I have some hope and I don't know how likely it is

00:43:27 ◼   ► that they will make a new iPad mini

00:43:28 ◼   ► that is cheap like the iPad is.

00:43:33 ◼   ► I don't think it will be a pro anything,

00:43:35 ◼   ► but I just in defense of the iPad mini,

00:43:38 ◼   ► I used one for a long time and loved it,

00:43:40 ◼   ► and my son still uses one and loves it.

00:43:44 ◼   ► And I think it's great for kids,

00:43:45 ◼   ► and I think for people who want the smallest iPad possible.

00:43:49 ◼   ► And I feel like it's almost like an iPhone SE sort of thing

00:43:53 ◼   ► where every two or three years,

00:43:55 ◼   ► can they just update the iPad mini

00:43:57 ◼   ► and keep it down there in the price list next to the iPad

00:43:59 ◼   ► for people who want a smaller iPad,

00:44:01 ◼   ► essentially same specs, but smaller.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I again would not lay odds on that,

00:44:07 ◼   ► but I would kind of like to see it continue.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Although if I had to make a trade

00:44:10 ◼   ► between the iPad mini existing

00:44:12 ◼   ► and some new iOS slash iPad device appear,

00:44:16 ◼   ► I would choose the new over the iPad mini,

00:44:18 ◼   ► but I'd love to see them maintain the iPad mini.

00:44:20 ◼   ► - All right, this is only part of the whole story, right?

00:44:24 ◼   ► We need to talk about iOS itself.

00:44:26 ◼   ► But before we do, let's take a break and thank SaneBox.

00:44:30 ◼   ► I bet that if you're listening to this show, there's probably something that you don't

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00:44:49 ◼   ► This is one of the biggest problems of email.

00:44:51 ◼   ► a glance it can be difficult to work out exactly what needs your attention.

00:44:55 ◼   ► Well wouldn't it be nice if your email could be sorted for you before it even hits your

00:44:59 ◼   ► inbox, no matter what app or service you use, no matter what type of email provider you

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00:45:17 ◼   ► in your inbox are the ones that you are going to need.

00:45:20 ◼   ► And the great thing is that it will work seamlessly with anything that you're currently using.

00:45:26 ◼   ► One of the best features, one of my favorite features, the same box is called the black

00:45:29 ◼   ► hole.

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00:45:43 ◼   ► I was checking out same box when I signed up a little while ago and one thing that I

00:45:48 ◼   ► concerned about is part of my job is in sales. So I get emails from people I've never heard from

00:45:55 ◼   ► all the time and they're important emails. I don't want them to be hidden. During the setup process

00:46:00 ◼   ► at SameBox, they ask you this exact question. Like, are you a person who is in sales or something

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00:46:11 ◼   ► their algorithm for that. So that sort of stuff is going to keep going to your inbox. It's really,

00:46:16 ◼   ► really cool. I like one of the other features that they have is called Sane News where they

00:46:20 ◼   ► try and work out the newsletters that you get and keep them out of your inbox and put

00:46:23 ◼   ► them into a folder for you. I love all of this stuff. It's a really great way of separating

00:46:28 ◼   ► all of your email and I'm pretty sure that I am hooked. To help you get a little more

00:46:33 ◼   ► organisation in your inbox we've worked out a deal with SaneBox. So if you go to SaneBox.com/upgradefm

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00:46:53 ◼   ► That is SaneBox.com/upgradefm. That is SaneBox.com/upgrade and then FM at the end. Our thanks to SaneBox

00:47:02 ◼   ► for their support of this week's show and Relay FM.

00:47:07 ◼   ► My biggest wish for iOS 12 is a sign of life for the iPad. I don't need tons and tons of

00:47:16 ◼   ► features. I just want to know we're good.

00:47:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I, uh, well, I think, I don't know. I'm not so desperate that I'm saying, oh,

00:47:27 ◼   ► show us that there's a sign of life.

00:47:28 ◼   ► - I mean, it's not desperation, it's more just like,

00:47:32 ◼   ► iOS 11 was like, we forgot the iPad, like, what iPad, right?

00:47:37 ◼   ► iOS 10 was like, oh, here's some great stuff.

00:47:40 ◼   ► Like, oh, wow, this looks awesome.

00:47:41 ◼   ► And iOS 11 was like, here's some stickers for iMessage.

00:47:45 ◼   ► Right, like that was, and like the iPad just got

00:47:49 ◼   ► enhancements that the iPhone got, but not in a great way.

00:47:53 ◼   ► - I feel like you're bargaining here a little bit.

00:47:55 ◼   ► I want, what I want on my wishlist is I want Apple to show

00:48:00 ◼   ► that they're gonna be iPad improvements every year,

00:48:03 ◼   ► not every other year.

00:48:05 ◼   ► That the iPad is important enough,

00:48:07 ◼   ► and that one of the ways that iOS needs to grow

00:48:10 ◼   ► is more capabilities for things that are being pushed

00:48:13 ◼   ► by the iPad Pro, not by the iPhone.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And so the iPhone's great,

00:48:17 ◼   ► they're gonna add features to the iPhone.

00:48:19 ◼   ► iPhone is a huge driver of Apple's business,

00:48:21 ◼   ► but in terms of moving this platform forward,

00:48:23 ◼   ► The iPad is sort of the frontier

00:48:26 ◼   ► and I want to see them not have that be

00:48:29 ◼   ► in every two years thing.

00:48:30 ◼   ► - Oh, for sure.

00:48:32 ◼   ► I mean, look, I'm on that train,

00:48:34 ◼   ► but like worst comes to worst,

00:48:36 ◼   ► I'm cool with just like a new feature

00:48:37 ◼   ► of some description and a bunch of really good fixes

00:48:40 ◼   ► because I don't have anything in my mind right now,

00:48:44 ◼   ► which is like the real big stuff that I wanna see.

00:48:46 ◼   ► I would like to see some refinements to multitasking.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I wanna see some fixes for files

00:48:52 ◼   ► and I have some lists of that stuff.

00:48:55 ◼   ► But really, you know, just showing me

00:48:58 ◼   ► that continued specific work is happening on the iPad,

00:49:02 ◼   ► is, that's the main thing that I wanna see.

00:49:06 ◼   ► Because really, it honestly didn't even feel like

00:49:08 ◼   ► we got a lot of bug fixes to iPad features in 11 either,

00:49:11 ◼   ► like it kinda just stayed as it was.

00:49:13 ◼   ► So, two big features, or two big focuses for me,

00:49:17 ◼   ► for what I wanna see improved on the iPad in iOS 12.

00:49:21 ◼   ► I want to see some refinements to iPad multitasking.

00:49:24 ◼   ► I think quite a few people have found

00:49:27 ◼   ► the new system confusing.

00:49:28 ◼   ► And I don't want them to start over

00:49:30 ◼   ► because I do believe it is a much better system.

00:49:34 ◼   ► I use it to great effect every day,

00:49:36 ◼   ► but I think clearing it up a little could be nice.

00:49:40 ◼   ► And in your article, Matt Quarles,

00:49:42 ◼   ► you mentioned a couple of things that you wanted to see.

00:49:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I don't know,

00:49:49 ◼   ► there's this the app buddy system, which I like and exists,

00:49:54 ◼   ► but I kind of would like apps to be able to be paired

00:49:56 ◼   ► with more than one buddy.

00:49:58 ◼   ► So if you switch, you know, to be able to set up different

00:50:00 ◼   ► pairs and switch between them or a relatively easy way

00:50:05 ◼   ► for an app to be able to display two instances of itself

00:50:09 ◼   ► side by side, like what Safari does would also be nice.

00:50:14 ◼   ► the the mic and CGP Grey official keyboard shortcuts for multitasking so

00:50:22 ◼   ► that you can keep your hands on the keyboard I would like as a part of it

00:50:24 ◼   ► too. I just I would like them to look at what shipped and how people are using it

00:50:30 ◼   ► and make some refinements because what happened last time was they shipped it.

00:50:34 ◼   ► It was apparent from day one that it wasn't very good but it did the job and

00:50:42 ◼   ► then nothing happened for two years now and then they ship something that's a

00:50:46 ◼   ► complete rethink great

00:50:49 ◼   ► I don't want to just sit there for two years because they they've seen how

00:50:53 ◼   ► people use it they probably have ideas I would like that iteration whatever they

00:50:58 ◼   ► choose to do I would really like to see iOS 12 make the stuff that was

00:51:02 ◼   ► introduced in 11 a little bit better with a little more you know a little

00:51:05 ◼   ► more capability for those who want to use it just that I would like to see

00:51:11 ◼   ► that I would like to see some progress instead of it being like look we gave it

00:51:14 ◼   ► to you wait two years and maybe we'll give you something totally different

00:51:17 ◼   ► again I don't think we're in that position now I just think refinement is

00:51:22 ◼   ► a good thing that they can do. I would also like to see clearing up of some

00:51:27 ◼   ► inconsistencies with iPhone 10 gestures like I understand why they differ now

00:51:32 ◼   ► but I would like to see that kind of just just cleared up a little bit you

00:51:37 ◼   ► know just well do some stuff there and that brings up the the whole control

00:51:41 ◼   ► center issue yeah and that and that's on iPad and on iPhone 10 like on iPad you

00:51:50 ◼   ► swipe up and you get multitasking and control center together on iPhone 10 you

00:51:55 ◼   ► swipe up and you get multitasking if you hold and you get the home screen if you

00:52:00 ◼   ► don't and I know why but that's confusing I I still even after all this

00:52:06 ◼   ► this time, swipe the wrong way on these devices, on all of these devices, because

00:52:11 ◼   ► I just haven't internalized it even now. So I think I would like to see if

00:52:17 ◼   ► there's any way to try and get them in the ballpark. I have a suggestion

00:52:22 ◼   ► and I'm sure they tested it and they didn't like it, but I hate the placement

00:52:28 ◼   ► of Control Center on the iPhone X in the upper right corner. I don't use

00:52:32 ◼   ► control center almost ever and when I do I'm always frustrated because it's like I

00:52:36 ◼   ► swipe down oh no that's notification center I gotta be further over to the

00:52:39 ◼   ► right oh there it is it's top right I used to flip up control center from the

00:52:43 ◼   ► bottom all the time and that gesture got repurposed for the home screen fair but

00:52:47 ◼   ► the other problem is swiping up on my iPad and holding gets me multitasking

00:52:52 ◼   ► plus control center and that doesn't happen on the iPhone so I kind of want

00:52:57 ◼   ► swiping up and holding on the iPhone 10 to bring up control center and

00:53:01 ◼   ► multitasking, even if it would be cramped. I kinda want that because I want to be

00:53:07 ◼   ► able to access control center from my thumb at the bottom of the screen. Plus

00:53:11 ◼   ► it would be nice if those gestures were harmonious because right now they're not.

00:53:15 ◼   ► They're kinda all over the place and I don't think, I mean, swipe down from the

00:53:20 ◼   ► top and in some places it's notification center and in other places it's control

00:53:24 ◼   ► center is not, it's just not good. It's not, and it has not gotten better for me

00:53:29 ◼   ► over time. I'm still frustrated by it.

00:53:31 ◼   ► I want to see consistency.

00:53:33 ◼   ► I want to see them do something that brings those two things closer together.

00:53:37 ◼   ► Like, I would love to see something.

00:53:40 ◼   ► Again, I don't know what it is and I agree with you.

00:53:43 ◼   ► I'm sure they tested all of these things, but whether they liked it or they didn't

00:53:47 ◼   ► like it, I don't think that the implementation that they went with is the best one

00:53:50 ◼   ► on the iPhone X. Like, I have also yet to in like, even though I do remember

00:53:55 ◼   ► that it's in the top right, I know it's not the right place for me.

00:53:58 ◼   ► Like it doesn't feel right. I don't like it. Um,

00:54:02 ◼   ► I would like to see them try and find a way to put it all into multitasking

00:54:07 ◼   ► because I think that would help a lot of it. Um, of the, you know,

00:54:10 ◼   ► is they're going to look different, they're going to be different.

00:54:12 ◼   ► But I think that it works best there. Or, you know, as you said, from, uh,

00:54:16 ◼   ► the home screen even like something somehow just like some make it better,

00:54:22 ◼   ► make it just better files. Um, okay.

00:54:26 ◼   ► I am very happy with the Files app and it makes working on iOS a lot better for me.

00:54:33 ◼   ► But I also have a lot of problems with the Files app, which have been exacerbated over

00:54:38 ◼   ► time.

00:54:39 ◼   ► I've been recording some of these.

00:54:42 ◼   ► So here they are.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Frequently I have to restart the device to download files because it gets stuck on a

00:54:48 ◼   ► spinner just saying "waiting to download" and the file never downloads.

00:54:52 ◼   ► And the only way to fix this is to reboot the entire device, which is wild.

00:54:58 ◼   ► I would like better ways to navigate where to save things to from the extension.

00:55:05 ◼   ► It's basically just tapping and scrolling through huge lists right now.

00:55:08 ◼   ► I feel like that that is not the best way of doing things.

00:55:11 ◼   ► For some reason, the Files app sometimes just completely forgets what my favorites are that

00:55:16 ◼   ► I drag into the favorites view.

00:55:19 ◼   ► I drag Dropbox folders into there,

00:55:21 ◼   ► sometimes they're not there anymore.

00:55:24 ◼   ► I would like to be able to save things locally to an iPad.

00:55:27 ◼   ► I don't always need it to be saved to iCloud Drive.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Just let me save it locally to the iPad.

00:55:33 ◼   ► I mean, saving to iCloud Drive

00:55:35 ◼   ► kinda seems to do this anyway,

00:55:37 ◼   ► and if that's the case,

00:55:38 ◼   ► then why do I even have on my iPad as an option?

00:55:42 ◼   ► Just hide that from me, I don't need to see it.

00:55:44 ◼   ► Just a place, sometimes I just need to save a file

00:55:47 ◼   ► to what is effectively the desktop, right?

00:55:49 ◼   ► Like a scratch area.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And also I'm gonna just say this for Jason,

00:55:54 ◼   ► just let us read files from an SD card.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Like just let us do it.

00:55:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, you've got a file browser.

00:56:01 ◼   ► You know, I think SD cards, I think USB hard drives.

00:56:04 ◼   ► And I heard a bunch of people when I wrote about this,

00:56:06 ◼   ► were like, oh, but the security implications.

00:56:08 ◼   ► Oh, is Apple incapable of dealing

00:56:10 ◼   ► with security implications?

00:56:12 ◼   ► Like, yes, they are.

00:56:13 ◼   ► And these are devices,

00:56:16 ◼   ► especially things like the iPad Pro where, you know,

00:56:19 ◼   ► you're the one I always give is you're somewhere

00:56:21 ◼   ► in a remote place and there's no good internet

00:56:23 ◼   ► and somebody has a big spreadsheet

00:56:25 ◼   ► or PowerPoint presentation they need to get to you

00:56:27 ◼   ► and you brought your iPad Pro.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Well, guess what?

00:56:30 ◼   ► You can't have it.

00:56:31 ◼   ► They've got, here it is on a flash drive.

00:56:33 ◼   ► No, we can't sync with the cloud.

00:56:35 ◼   ► How do you get it on there?

00:56:36 ◼   ► You can't, right?

00:56:37 ◼   ► Like it's, this is just a pro,

00:56:39 ◼   ► and I realize it's not for everybody,

00:56:41 ◼   ► but for people in those environments,

00:56:42 ◼   ► they need something like that.

00:56:44 ◼   ► Why not do that?

00:56:45 ◼   ► I'd also say, can you imagine a modern computer shipping

00:56:49 ◼   ► with the inability to attach to a file server in an office?

00:56:54 ◼   ► But iOS, can you connect directly from iOS

00:56:58 ◼   ► to an SMB server in an office?

00:57:00 ◼   ► You can't, you can't,

00:57:01 ◼   ► that should be built into the files app.

00:57:03 ◼   ► I realized that connected to a file server on a network

00:57:06 ◼   ► is different from connecting to a cloud service,

00:57:08 ◼   ► but it's not that different and you should do it.

00:57:11 ◼   ► You should be able to do it.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Now that we have the file browser,

00:57:14 ◼   ► and I know this is a case of like,

00:57:15 ◼   ► oh, we want a file browser.

00:57:16 ◼   ► Well, here you go, but it's limited.

00:57:18 ◼   ► The next thing we say is going to be,

00:57:19 ◼   ► it needs to be less limited,

00:57:21 ◼   ► but that's where we are,

00:57:22 ◼   ► is if you're going to have a file browser

00:57:24 ◼   ► in the operating system,

00:57:25 ◼   ► it needs to do these things, all these things better.

00:57:28 ◼   ► It needs to handle the local storage

00:57:30 ◼   ► that's not iCloud Drive better.

00:57:32 ◼   ► It needs to connect to servers.

00:57:33 ◼   ► It needs to be able to read mass storage devices

00:57:36 ◼   ► that are plugged into it.

00:57:37 ◼   ► And yes, it needs to do that all securely on top of it,

00:57:40 ◼   ► just like theoretically, like a Mac would do,

00:57:43 ◼   ► or better, but because it doesn't, you know,

00:57:45 ◼   ► the Mac has limitations that other operating systems

00:57:49 ◼   ► don't have in terms of mounting and unmounting storage too.

00:57:51 ◼   ► So I don't know, that is, that's a big one for me.

00:57:54 ◼   ► It's like now that Files app is there,

00:57:56 ◼   ► it needs to do more for the people who are using it

00:57:58 ◼   ► because it's frustrating.

00:57:59 ◼   ► It's way better than our old method

00:58:01 ◼   ► of accessing all this stuff.

00:58:02 ◼   ► I can take, I just did this over the weekend

00:58:04 ◼   ► when I was doing a podcast,

00:58:06 ◼   ► I was, I needed to put the art of the podcast

00:58:09 ◼   ► into Ferrite's little window of MP3 metadata

00:58:12 ◼   ► and the art I have is all in a Dropbox folder.

00:58:15 ◼   ► On my Mac, this is not a problem,

00:58:17 ◼   ► but on the iPad, it becomes this thing

00:58:18 ◼   ► where I used to have to save the art to the camera roll

00:58:21 ◼   ► in order to add it later, which is stupid

00:58:23 ◼   ► 'cause then I've got podcast logos in my camera roll.

00:58:26 ◼   ► And with files, I can drag and drop out of a Dropbox folder.

00:58:29 ◼   ► I can drag that file out onto the image drop point

00:58:33 ◼   ► in Ferrite, and it downloads the file from Dropbox

00:58:36 ◼   ► and drops it in.

00:58:37 ◼   ► It's beautiful, great.

00:58:39 ◼   ► I'm so happy that we can do that.

00:58:41 ◼   ► I want more now.

00:58:42 ◼   ► - iCloud storage.

00:58:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, they gotta do something.

00:58:49 ◼   ► I mean, the free five gigabytes is rapidly becoming a joke.

00:58:53 ◼   ► And if they're going to,

00:58:57 ◼   ► I am a believer that they need to do something more

00:58:59 ◼   ► and they need to give users more

00:59:01 ◼   ► because you give them that

00:59:04 ◼   ► and use it as a way to show off how great iCloud is

00:59:07 ◼   ► and then they pay you for even more storage.

00:59:09 ◼   ► but I think that the way they're doing it now is a mistake.

00:59:14 ◼   ► Like they haven't changed this in a long time.

00:59:16 ◼   ► I think you wanna show off iCloud to people.

00:59:18 ◼   ► I think it's complex to get people to upgrade.

00:59:21 ◼   ► And then what you wanna do is set the bar

00:59:23 ◼   ► a little bit higher where they can use it for a little bit

00:59:26 ◼   ► and then be like, "Oh, now I need to pay

00:59:28 ◼   ► for this other storage tier where I'm paying $5 a month

00:59:31 ◼   ► or $10 a month or whatever, but it's totally worth it."

00:59:34 ◼   ► But right now you hit that wall so quickly

00:59:37 ◼   ► and it's still five gigs per Apple ID,

00:59:40 ◼   ► which I also think is a mistake.

00:59:41 ◼   ► I feel like, maybe with a device purchase,

00:59:44 ◼   ► you should get more storage

00:59:47 ◼   ► or you should get storage for a year or two

00:59:50 ◼   ► at a certain level.

00:59:51 ◼   ► So it's almost like a trial.

00:59:53 ◼   ► There are lots of different options here.

00:59:56 ◼   ► I hope somebody at Apple keeps kind of game planning

00:59:59 ◼   ► this stuff, but I would like them to see,

01:00:01 ◼   ► to approach iCloud storage in a different way

01:00:03 ◼   ► where it's more useful out of the box without paying

01:00:07 ◼   ► because you did buy an Apple product,

01:00:09 ◼   ► give the new user something for having paid Apple

01:00:13 ◼   ► for this piece of hardware.

01:00:15 ◼   ► And then also make it kind of like a good entry point

01:00:20 ◼   ► into iCloud where people get to the point where they're like,

01:00:23 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, this is great.

01:00:24 ◼   ► "I need to buy more storage."

01:00:25 ◼   ► And use that as the way to sell them.

01:00:27 ◼   ► The fact that Apple does a 99 cents a month tier

01:00:30 ◼   ► of iCloud storage, it's like, why does that exist?

01:00:33 ◼   ► Like that's not good for anyone because it's the barrier of paying.

01:00:36 ◼   ► A lot of people are just going to hit that barrier and bounce right off of it.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And surely a $12 a year iCloud Drive subscription is not a major driver of Apple Cloud revenue.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Like that's a good trade off to make.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Like don't make them pay at that level.

01:00:55 ◼   ► Raise the bar a little bit more.

01:00:56 ◼   ► Let people get involved.

01:00:57 ◼   ► I think it's been proven time and again that giving people a taste for free and having

01:01:05 ◼   ► them become reliable or reliant on it and then wanting more like this is the whole freemium

01:01:11 ◼   ► model like I think I think Apple needs to recalibrate what they're doing with iCloud

01:01:16 ◼   ► storage they've needed to do it for five years they still haven't done it maybe they never

01:01:20 ◼   ► will but I feel like they are making a mistake that hurts the user experience of people who

01:01:25 ◼   ► are getting Apple devices because now they're pushed to sign up for iCloud and they get

01:01:30 ◼   ► almost nothing for it. They try to do a backup, things fall apart, and then they get the upsell.

01:01:35 ◼   ► And I don't think that's a good user experience. And what about iCloud photo library? I'm going

01:01:41 ◼   ► to give you your opportunity to complain about this as you do every year. Yeah, I know every

01:01:48 ◼   ► year I do it and they just don't, they just don't. They don't want to listen to this.

01:01:54 ◼   ► here it is, which is I have photos and my wife has photos that we take that we

01:02:03 ◼   ► want to share with each other at full quality because we don't need two photo

01:02:06 ◼   ► libraries, we need one photo library. Not everybody wants to share all their

01:02:11 ◼   ► photos with other members of their family. That's fine, but there should be

01:02:15 ◼   ► options and my wife should be able to say all of these photos or all my photos

01:02:20 ◼   ► I take or all the photos with certain faces in them or whatever just sink over

01:02:23 ◼   ► the other library. I should be able to say all the photos in the library sync

01:02:26 ◼   ► to my wife's devices. Because right now, if she wants to make a calendar based on

01:02:30 ◼   ► all our pictures we took last year for this year, she has to use my

01:02:34 ◼   ► computer to do it. She can't use her Mac to do it, she can't use her iPad to do it,

01:02:38 ◼   ► she can't use her iPhone to do it. She's got her own Apple ID and her photos that

01:02:42 ◼   ► she takes are on her own Apple ID, which is fine.

01:02:45 ◼   ► Now there is some family sharing in iCloud because every time I complain

01:02:49 ◼   ► somebody mentions, "but there is family sharing in iCloud," it is, you've got

01:02:53 ◼   ► gotta drag the files into a family shared album and they're down res'd.

01:02:57 ◼   ► They're not full quality so you can't use it archivaly, it's not your family

01:03:01 ◼   ► photo library, it's just a place for you to quickly share a file at a lower

01:03:04 ◼   ► resolution with your family. It's not good enough, it's not good enough. So this is not a feature for

01:03:08 ◼   ► everybody but I think it's a feature for a lot of people, especially

01:03:13 ◼   ► married people who, you know, with kids and they take pictures and and then

01:03:17 ◼   ► they're trying to build photo albums and things like that and they don't have

01:03:19 ◼   ► access to the other person's photos. And I always hear people are like, "Oh, well, do

01:03:25 ◼   ► you really want to share all your photos?" You know, like, there can be privacy

01:03:29 ◼   ► issues. And people, yes, some—if this is a feature—some idiot is going to take

01:03:36 ◼   ► terrible photos of something, and their spouse is going to see it, and it's going

01:03:41 ◼   ► to lead to problems in their marriage.

01:03:42 ◼   ► Okay, sure, that is not enough of a reason to keep everybody else from having this

01:03:48 ◼   ► features. So you put some security systems in place, you opt people in, you

01:03:52 ◼   ► can limit it by location or time or faces or whatever you want, but there's

01:03:58 ◼   ► got to be a better way than me taking my wife's phone every three months or six

01:04:02 ◼   ► months and just plugging it into my Mac and importing all her photos into my

01:04:05 ◼   ► library, because that's where we are right now. It's dumb.

01:04:09 ◼   ► So that is our iOS wish list for 2018.

01:04:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not counting on my wish that's being fulfilled, but it's good to get it out. It's

01:04:20 ◼   ► good to get the expectations and the hopes and the dreams out there.

01:04:22 ◼   ► You gotta. You gotta share. So a while back, we spoke about trying to give some of our

01:04:28 ◼   ► knowledge about podcasting on this show in a semi-recurring segment of Podcast Tips.

01:04:34 ◼   ► And I want to do one today, and I want to tackle a question that has made me asked of

01:04:40 ◼   ► me more frequently than any other and for a good reason.

01:04:45 ◼   ► And this question comes from Jay and Jay asked, "How does one market a podcast to grow its

01:04:52 ◼   ► audience?"

01:04:54 ◼   ► Jay says, "We've shown up every day for the past year and our numbers do not see any growth."

01:04:59 ◼   ► Alright so without a doubt this is the question I get asked the most and I guess one of the

01:05:06 ◼   ► problems with this question is that there is no right answer. So I have a story that

01:05:15 ◼   ► I want to tell, which is kind of an abridged version of my story and what I learned from

01:05:19 ◼   ► it. And then Jason, I thought that you could maybe tell an abridged version of your story.

01:05:24 ◼   ► And then we can, I think that I think there is something to take from it, but it is not

01:05:29 ◼   ► the 10 quick steps to podcast success.

01:05:32 ◼   ► So I started podcasting over 10 years ago now,

01:05:37 ◼   ► which is a horrific fault to me

01:05:41 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:05:41 ◼   ► that I've been doing this for 10 years.

01:05:43 ◼   ► And when I started, the landscape is very different

01:05:48 ◼   ► to what it is now.

01:05:49 ◼   ► Even just in tech podcasting,

01:05:52 ◼   ► there were not as many tech shows then as there is now.

01:05:55 ◼   ► And I started my first show

01:05:58 ◼   ► and it was mostly focused around technology

01:06:00 ◼   ► because it was something that I loved.

01:06:02 ◼   ► So I started doing it and it wasn't good for a while,

01:06:05 ◼   ► but I got the practice in.

01:06:06 ◼   ► And then when me and my co-hosts felt that we were better

01:06:10 ◼   ► and knew what we were doing,

01:06:12 ◼   ► we started to get guests on our show.

01:06:14 ◼   ► And the thinking was then that it would give variety

01:06:18 ◼   ► to the show and also help us get promoted

01:06:21 ◼   ► as people would share the episode with their followers.

01:06:24 ◼   ► And I know that this sounds like a super simple tactic

01:06:26 ◼   ► that many shows take now.

01:06:30 ◼   ► But honestly, there were not a lot of people doing this then.

01:06:34 ◼   ► That this wasn't like a thing in technology podcasting

01:06:38 ◼   ► that people would have wonderful guests

01:06:40 ◼   ► like Jason on their show, which I did,

01:06:42 ◼   ► even on my very first show, Jason was a guest,

01:06:45 ◼   ► and it was wonderful, and it was great to have Jason

01:06:47 ◼   ► as a guest on my show, and I was very happy

01:06:49 ◼   ► that he came on the show.

01:06:50 ◼   ► And the reason that this worked for me then

01:06:53 ◼   ► is because people like Jason did not have

01:06:56 ◼   ► their own technology podcasts that they were on every week at that time. It just wasn't

01:07:00 ◼   ► a thing. And so now this doesn't work very well because you get to hear these people

01:07:07 ◼   ► every week. So if you have Jason as a guest on your technology show now, it may not be

01:07:13 ◼   ► so much of a boon for you because people hear Jason talk about this stuff on his show upgraded

01:07:19 ◼   ► every week. So it is less of a thing now, but then it was more of a thing because everybody

01:07:27 ◼   ► didn't have their own show. So this was kind of how I got my break. It is not helpful advice

01:07:34 ◼   ► anymore because I don't think that it is very applicable today. I don't think having guests

01:07:39 ◼   ► on a show specifically will help grow your show because it is a tried and true method

01:07:45 ◼   ► at this point. This is something that lots and lots and lots of people do as a way to

01:07:49 ◼   ► to try and get more attention to their podcast is to have guests. So Jason, before I talk

01:07:55 ◼   ► about what I think can be learned from my method, how did you get your breakthrough

01:07:59 ◼   ► in podcasting?

01:08:00 ◼   ► Jason B

01:08:01 ◼   ► Well, it helps to have an audience, right? And I had an audience with Macworld. I was

01:08:06 ◼   ► writing my column in Macworld every month and would, you know, that promote my Twitter

01:08:12 ◼   ► feed, which I would then say I did this podcast and I did this podcast. And, you know, when

01:08:18 ◼   ► I went out on my own, Six Colors, I post items there when we post podcasts, not

01:08:23 ◼   ► all of them but most of them, and that all helped. Being around

01:08:33 ◼   ► people who are podcasting and have audiences, there are a few ways to do

01:08:40 ◼   ► that. We actually had a thread of people who are members of the

01:08:43 ◼   ► incomparable, we have a discussion area for them. It's a great user benefit. And there

01:08:50 ◼   ► was a conversation there about how people found the incomparable that sprung up. And

01:08:53 ◼   ► it was fascinating to see that because a lot of it was I heard Jason on the talk show.

01:08:59 ◼   ► I saw Jason on twit. Some of it was because I do the show with Tim Goodman. Like I listened

01:09:08 ◼   ► to Tim Goodman's podcast and the new version has Jason and that's where I found the incomparable.

01:09:12 ◼   ► Some of it was from other podcasts I did. There was lots of different ways of leading into it.

01:09:19 ◼   ► When the incomparable went on five by five, it exposed the five by five audience to that podcast.

01:09:24 ◼   ► And that was a way that it grew. So I'd say being adjacent to people with different audiences than

01:09:32 ◼   ► you, like one of the great things about me going on Twitter is I feel like the vast majority of

01:09:36 ◼   ► of the people on the—on Lea LePort's audience don't know who the hell I am. And so every

01:09:44 ◼   ► time I go there, I feel like people discover who I am, and that turns them into maybe upgrade

01:09:48 ◼   ► listeners or download listeners or incomparable listeners or whatever, right? I think that

01:09:52 ◼   ► that—that's nice. Having guests on can be great. Like, one of the things about incomparable

01:09:56 ◼   ► being a panel show is that I end up having John Saracusa saying, "Oh, I was on the incomparable

01:10:00 ◼   ► talking about Star Wars," or John Gruber saying, "I was on talking about The Godfather," and

01:10:04 ◼   ► that all kind of feeds into it. So some of it is just, you know, can you be adjacent

01:10:08 ◼   ► to other people? And I'm not saying like you need to be a remora attached to a famous person.

01:10:13 ◼   ► I'm saying find people who are like you and maybe who like you, who have audiences that

01:10:17 ◼   ► are not your audience. Because the truth is that's kind of how it happens is you get exposed

01:10:24 ◼   ► to a different audience and then some of them follow you back because they like what you

01:10:27 ◼   ► have to say. And a lot of, most of them won't because not, they won't necessarily dislike

01:10:31 ◼   ► you but they just they'll be like okay that was a guest and they move on but some people

01:10:35 ◼   ► might and and so for me it's been you know all of those things rolled together is having

01:10:41 ◼   ► an existing audience being adjacent to people with other audiences and and sort of having

01:10:45 ◼   ► them discover what I'm doing through their audiences whether it's me guessing on their

01:10:49 ◼   ► place or them guessing on on on my place and then the truth is Myke and you know you and

01:10:54 ◼   ► I this may be where you're going with this is a lot of it is luck a lot of his luck you're

01:11:01 ◼   ► in the right place at the right time, I'd say don't get disheartened if your audience

01:11:06 ◼   ► size is flat because, I don't know, I mean my experience is most podcasts spend a long

01:11:14 ◼   ► time with the same audience. I've also seen it that you have a flat audience for a while

01:11:20 ◼   ► and then suddenly you enter a growth phase. And I don't know, and again, why did that

01:11:28 ◼   ► we don't always know. We often have no idea why, "Oh, well, somehow the ball started

01:11:33 ◼   ► rolling and suddenly now we're being listened to by more people." But it totally happens.

01:11:37 ◼   ► So sometimes a podcast reaches its level and that's just what it is, and that's okay. Other

01:11:42 ◼   ► times not. And also I'd say be realistic about the numbers. I mean, you know, I do podcasts

01:11:49 ◼   ► with—some of the podcasts I do are probably only listened to by like 4,000 people, which

01:11:54 ◼   ► to some people is a huge audience and to me is like one of my smaller things. And that's

01:11:59 ◼   ► just how it is. Like some, everything finds its own level. Maybe that's all that it's

01:12:05 ◼   ► ever going to be and that's just how it is and you have to be comfortable with that.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Yeah, so like, you know, like we are kind of coming, we're like conflicting a little

01:12:14 ◼   ► bit in what we're saying because like I was saying that, you know, I don't think that

01:12:17 ◼   ► guests help as much anymore and you were saying that they helped you and I agree with what

01:12:21 ◼   ► what you're saying, I more mean that like going from having a small show to being where

01:12:30 ◼   ► I am now, like my method to starting off was to get guests and to start to meet people.

01:12:36 ◼   ► And it definitely helps, but I don't think it helps to the level that it helped me 10

01:12:40 ◼   ► years ago. But it still can. And I do think your biggest help was the fact that you had

01:12:47 ◼   ► an existing audience of people. There were people there to listen to you. And that is

01:12:53 ◼   ► even harder to get. Like, are you already the editorial director of a magazine? Well,

01:13:01 ◼   ► that helps. But what we're trying to say with this is, the lesson is that there are many

01:13:09 ◼   ► different ways in which you can find success in your creative project. And like with all

01:13:13 ◼   ► creative projects, it is very hard to make it successful. To grow any creative endeavor

01:13:18 ◼   ► takes time and hard work and effort. One of the key things that I recommend to you is

01:13:25 ◼   ► to find the thing that makes your show different and lean into that. If you can't find the

01:13:33 ◼   ► thing that makes your show different, you need to find something that makes it different.

01:13:37 ◼   ► Because otherwise it's gonna be like something that everybody else is already listening to.

01:13:43 ◼   ► So you know, find that thing, lean into that thing, and I think that it might help people

01:13:50 ◼   ► start to share the show because they're gonna find it exciting and interesting.

01:13:54 ◼   ► Yeah, it's no guarantee of success, but I think it will help.

01:13:58 ◼   ► That should always be, do something that is not like everything else, I know easier to

01:14:05 ◼   ► say than do but and be true to yourself and have it be something that you care about and

01:14:09 ◼   ► that you're enthusiastic about and be yourself when you're doing it. Like all of those things

01:14:13 ◼   ► are part of the secret sauce there.

01:14:17 ◼   ► But I want everybody to know this is something that we both still struggle with today. There

01:14:21 ◼   ► are shows that we'll launch and we don't know if they're going to work. It's a gamble every

01:14:25 ◼   ► time and sometimes stuff doesn't work and it doesn't go the way that you want. This

01:14:30 ◼   ► This is a thing that can still happen no matter how long you've been doing this.

01:14:34 ◼   ► So it is hard work.

01:14:37 ◼   ► But as Jason said, if you do something that you really care about, that will help you

01:14:41 ◼   ► get through the times when it's not going anywhere.

01:14:45 ◼   ► I spent seven years not getting where I wanted to be.

01:14:52 ◼   ► So it was a long time.

01:14:54 ◼   ► And I had a lot of great success over that period of time, but it wasn't what I wanted.

01:14:57 ◼   ► I wanted was to be a full time podcaster. It took me seven years to get there. So there's

01:15:03 ◼   ► a lot of ups and downs. If this is something that you truly want to do and it's something

01:15:07 ◼   ► that you think is awesome, then keep working at it and you'll get there eventually.

01:15:12 ◼   ► So please send in, just tweet to me. I'll get lots of tweets this week, lots of segment

01:15:16 ◼   ► ideas and names and questions. Just send me, if you want to hear us talk about a question

01:15:21 ◼   ► that you have about podcasting, just send it to me over on Twitter or via email or something

01:15:26 ◼   ► and we'll try and include it in a later episode.

01:15:30 ◼   ► And thanks again to Jay and good luck Jay with your show.

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01:16:58 ◼   ► It is time for #AskUpgrade.

01:17:03 ◼   ► One laser, so you can do that. Oh, there was more. Okay, delay reaction on the lasers everybody.

01:17:08 ◼   ► The lasers had to, the lasers had some ice on them that they had to like, shift them

01:17:11 ◼   ► around a little bit to break the ice off. It is cold in some places.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Braden asks, "Any suggestions on a solid iOS email app?" I am going to remove the

01:17:22 ◼   ► word solid from Braden's question because there isn't one, in my opinion. Jason, what

01:17:29 ◼   ► is your email app of choice right now?

01:17:33 ◼   ► Mail.app.

01:17:34 ◼   ► Yeah, you're back everything on all platforms?

01:17:37 ◼   ► No, on the Mac I'm using Mailplane, which is just a framing Gmail in a more capable

01:17:44 ◼   ► kind of keyboard shortcut kind of app window. It's like a single site browser sort of for

01:17:49 ◼   ► Gmail. Everywhere else it's Apple Mail.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Okay. I'm still using Air Mail. Air Mail is not perfect, but it has a bunch of features

01:17:59 ◼   ► that I really, really like from it. I find myself getting frustrated at it from time

01:18:03 ◼   ► to time, but it does offer me features that other apps don't and they're features that

01:18:09 ◼   ► I really like so I struggle to move away.

01:18:12 ◼   ► So that's what we're using right now.

01:18:15 ◼   ► Napali asks, says, I love my iPhone 10, but it drives me crazy when I grab it and it lights

01:18:20 ◼   ► up upside down.

01:18:21 ◼   ► Do you think a dot or a line to indicate orientation with the black screen could be useful?

01:18:27 ◼   ► So I would say I also do this a lot.

01:18:30 ◼   ► I pick up my iPhone, it's in the wrong orientation.

01:18:33 ◼   ► I don't think I would want something like always printed on the phone.

01:18:37 ◼   ► What I would like to see is Apple trying to do something which is like always on with

01:18:42 ◼   ► the OLED screen.

01:18:43 ◼   ► Maybe the clock and some notification badges could be there.

01:18:46 ◼   ► So I'll know because I can see.

01:18:48 ◼   ► That might be nice.

01:18:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree with you.

01:18:53 ◼   ► The OLED screen should allow us to have some subtle notifications on the iPhone X, right?

01:19:01 ◼   ► And Apple has chosen not to do that.

01:19:03 ◼   ► And I don't really know why, but this is a good,

01:19:07 ◼   ► this is another good reason why you might wanna do that,

01:19:11 ◼   ► is it would also allow for some clearer orientation

01:19:14 ◼   ► in the dark.

01:19:15 ◼   ► - Just anytime, like in pure daylight,

01:19:20 ◼   ► I pick my phone up in the wrong way around.

01:19:22 ◼   ► - But like having, I tap my screen all the time

01:19:26 ◼   ► to see like what the time is.

01:19:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:19:28 ◼   ► - When I'm sitting at my desk.

01:19:29 ◼   ► I mean, even when I have an Apple Watch,

01:19:31 ◼   ► or yeah, see it or see if there's something going on.

01:19:33 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:19:34 ◼   ► But like if I had a little like readout that also just said,

01:19:36 ◼   ► you know, maybe it was like really super super subtle.

01:19:38 ◼   ► Maybe it just said the time and like how many notifications

01:19:41 ◼   ► were on the screen like to you know to and I could tap

01:19:45 ◼   ► and I could see the notifications that pop up or something

01:19:47 ◼   ► like that.

01:19:47 ◼   ► They I'm interested in the fact that Apple has not done that

01:19:51 ◼   ► even though they've got an OLED screen here.

01:19:53 ◼   ► And yeah, I think that Nepali's suggestion of maybe even

01:19:57 ◼   ► just keeping that really light gray line at the bottom of the screen that's the home indicator

01:20:05 ◼   ► thing. Even something like that that would make it clearer that you could do that or

01:20:11 ◼   ► some version of that. I get there's issues and stuff too, but I would like to see the

01:20:17 ◼   ► line go away in the future. I kind of don't need it. I know why they have it. It makes

01:20:24 ◼   ► sense to have it for now but like eventually it'd be nice if it just didn't work there

01:20:29 ◼   ► anymore.

01:20:30 ◼   ► I agree.

01:20:31 ◼   ► David just got a new MacBook Pro from work.

01:20:34 ◼   ► Any recommendations for a good dongle bag?

01:20:36 ◼   ► Jason do you use a dongle bag?

01:20:38 ◼   ► I have never used the phrase dongle bag before and I don't think I will again.

01:20:42 ◼   ► I don't have anything like that.

01:20:44 ◼   ► I recommend that you go to your sandwich drawer and pull out a ziplock bag.

01:20:49 ◼   ► Ziplock will do it.

01:20:50 ◼   ► Just stick them in there because that's what I do.

01:20:52 ◼   ► I recommend perusing the accessories page at Tom Bihn. They have lots and lots and lots

01:21:00 ◼   ► of options for dongle bags and dongle holders, so they're good.

01:21:04 ◼   ► Jason, this is a good question for you. We were talking about something. When you were

01:21:09 ◼   ► describing your rat nest of cables recently, it popped into my head. Wow, that was a fun

01:21:14 ◼   ► time for everyone. Tim wrote in to ask any suggestions for what to do with old, unused

01:21:21 ◼   ► technology items. Tim has been cleaning out some boxes of old tech and come across some

01:21:26 ◼   ► stuff like iPod docks and mice and cables. Feels wasteful to just throw them out. Jason,

01:21:31 ◼   ► what do you do with this stuff?

01:21:33 ◼   ► What I recommend is if you have a local electronics recycling point, and a lot of places have

01:21:44 ◼   ► this, I have one that it's open, I think it's open five days a week, seven days a week even,

01:21:51 ◼   ► And it's a place where you can drop off old computers,

01:21:53 ◼   ► old hard drives.

01:21:54 ◼   ► I mean, ideally wipe all your information off them first,

01:21:56 ◼   ► but they take them.

01:21:58 ◼   ► And at least my place, it seems like they do some diagnosis

01:22:03 ◼   ► of like, can we refurbish this?

01:22:04 ◼   ► Can we sell this?

01:22:06 ◼   ► Do we dismantle this?

01:22:08 ◼   ► But if there's somewhere where they have old,

01:22:11 ◼   ► where they take old tech,

01:22:13 ◼   ► they may call it electronics recycling

01:22:15 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:22:17 ◼   ► I would say do that.

01:22:19 ◼   ► People don't want you to come in with a rat's nest of cables and say, "Here, I got this for you."

01:22:26 ◼   ► Nobody wants that. But I agree it feels wasteful to just throw it in the garbage.

01:22:30 ◼   ► I would rather give it to somebody who at least might look at them all and be like,

01:22:35 ◼   ► "These are good. I can reuse them, donate them, sell them, or whatever,

01:22:41 ◼   ► but you're probably not going to do that yourself."

01:22:43 ◼   ► So that's my recommendation.

01:22:46 ◼   ► I mean if you've got a lot of spare time you could put those things in dongle bags

01:22:50 ◼   ► or ziplock bags or whatever and go to your local, I don't know where, school

01:22:55 ◼   ► library or some other kind of donation place and say would you

01:23:00 ◼   ► like some USB cables? I've got them in a bag here. But for the most part I

01:23:04 ◼   ► would say I try to find a place where they take old tech and that's where when

01:23:09 ◼   ► I cleaned up my rat's nest of cables that's where most of them went along

01:23:13 ◼   ► with some of the old hardware boxes that I had. Jared asked if not in Evernote what do

01:23:20 ◼   ► you use to organize and store long term data like medical documents or tax documents and

01:23:27 ◼   ► stuff like that? Jason? The yeah Dropbox PDFs and other stuff. Yeah files and folders in

01:23:37 ◼   ► Dropbox is fine because it just seems like the most simple and portable way of doing

01:23:47 ◼   ► it. Like, I put all this stuff in Evernote. Trying to get everything out of Evernote is

01:23:51 ◼   ► a nightmare and that was the indication to me.

01:23:56 ◼   ► I don't need an app to store PDFs. I don't, right? The file system does that. And so Lauren

01:24:06 ◼   ► and I have a shared Dropbox folder that I put stuff in and she put stuff in and we both

01:24:10 ◼   ► can see and that's where that stuff lives.

01:24:12 ◼   ► And then the other great thing about Dropbox is when I'm done with all my tax stuff for

01:24:16 ◼   ► the year I just send a link to my account, right, because it's the easiest way to get

01:24:21 ◼   ► to this stuff.

01:24:23 ◼   ► I just package it all up and I just say here you go and it's taken care of and I'm happy

01:24:29 ◼   ► with that, right, like it's done, taken care of.

01:24:35 ◼   ► And our last question today comes from Justin.

01:24:37 ◼   ► Justin wants to know, "What are your AirPod settings?

01:24:39 ◼   ► Play/Pause, Siri, Next Track, and do we do the same for the left or right AirPods?"

01:24:43 ◼   ► Jason, what do you have set up?

01:24:47 ◼   ► Next Track on the right, and I think Play/Pause on the left.

01:24:54 ◼   ► Although most of the time I just take the earbud out if I want to pause.

01:24:58 ◼   ► I do Play/Pause on both because I just wouldn't remember.

01:25:03 ◼   ► I know I won't and I'll be hitting the wrong side of my head every time and just for the

01:25:08 ◼   ► record he'll say every time I still hate doing that I hate the tapping I hate when it doesn't

01:25:13 ◼   ► work and then you tap your ears six times to get anything to play again just still not

01:25:19 ◼   ► a fan of the of that.

01:25:21 ◼   ► It's very straightforward Myke you tap for the next track on your right ear because it's

01:25:27 ◼   ► to the right and that means next because in our culture we have a left or right it's the

01:25:32 ◼   ► where the next track button is on the interface is also the right side. So it's that ear,

01:25:39 ◼   ► you see. If you want to find out show notes for this

01:25:41 ◼   ► week go to relay.fm/upgrade/176. Thanks again to Squarespace, Anchor and SaneBox for their

01:25:49 ◼   ► support of this show. You can go to sixcolors.com for Jason's work, the incomparable .com or

01:25:56 ◼   ► you can go to relay.fm/shows and you can find many shows that Jason hosts and that I host.

01:26:00 ◼   ► maybe there's something new for you there. Go check it out. Maybe go start listening

01:26:04 ◼   ► to Download or Connected or Clockwise or why don't you go and listen to Roboism or Originality.

01:26:10 ◼   ► Pick something new. There are so many things over at relay.fm. Some would say we have a

01:26:21 ◼   ► portion of all the great shows. Some would say that. Thanks for listening. You can send

01:26:28 ◼   ► in #AskUpgrade or #SnailTalkQuestions as always and we will compile those for a future episode.

01:26:34 ◼   ► Jason is @jsnail on Twitter, I am @imike, I am YKE, and we'll be back next time. Until then,

01:26:40 ◼   ► say goodbye Jason Snail. Live long and prosper everybody.

01:26:44 ◼   ► That was just a troll for the Star Wars.