00:00:15 ◼ ► Squarespace, Pingdom, Lunar Display, and Green Chef. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined
00:00:21 ◼ ► by my partner in crime, Mr. Jason Snell. You're not supposed to talk about the crime, Myke. I told
00:00:27 ◼ ► we had a conversation about this. My partner in doing good, Mr. Jason Snell. That's right.
00:00:32 ◼ ► Yes, that's from my garage. It's me. Hi. Our #SnellTalk question comes from Brent this week,
00:00:53 ◼ ► because I don't care. Okay, well, I do. I guess I'm that kind of person. So if I have it in
00:01:01 ◼ ► landscape with, as it would be, like home button that doesn't exist on the right camera on the
00:01:07 ◼ ► left, right? The Apple Pencil, the tip is always pointing towards the camera. So it, from my
00:01:17 ◼ ► perspective, is pointing to the left. Okay. So away from the USB-C port towards the camera.
00:01:24 ◼ ► That's my preference. Don't ask me why. I don't know why, but that's just the way it must be.
00:01:29 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't care. That's my answer. I will say, it is probably better to not care about
00:01:37 ◼ ► these types of things, but I do. Yeah, well, you can't change yourself. If you do care,
00:01:43 ◼ ► then you care, and you're one of those kinds of people, and I am not. I also am only leaving it
00:01:49 ◼ ► there. Well, we'll talk about my Apple Pencil habits later. I don't have it there all the time,
00:01:56 ◼ ► I picked this question, and it was because we're going to be talking about the Apple Pencil later
00:02:00 ◼ ► on in the show. If you would like to send in a question like Brent did, just send in a tweet with
00:02:04 ◼ ► the hashtag Snail Talk, and it may be used to open a future episode of Upgrade. We start today with
00:02:09 ◼ ► some follow-up. Apple Music is slowly rolling out in the US on the Amazon Echo. Right now,
00:02:16 ◼ ► it is US only. There is absolutely nothing to confirm or deny if and how long this is going
00:02:22 ◼ ► to be the case, that it will be US only, but it is. You can indeed, as we had hoped, set Apple
00:02:31 ◼ ► Music as your default music provider for the Echo. Yes, you can. It actually tells you, when you add
00:02:38 ◼ ► the skill, because I did this, when you add the skill, as I did on Friday, it says, "Great! Now,
00:02:45 ◼ ► if you want to make this the default, you can go to settings and do that," and I think there's even
00:02:53 ◼ ► a button that takes you there in the app, in the Amazon app, to control the lady, the lady in the
00:03:00 ◼ ► canister app. And then you go there and you say, "Yeah, this is my music service," and then that's
00:03:06 ◼ ► it. When you say, "Hey lady, play this playlist or play this song," it says, "Okay, I'm playing that
00:03:11 ◼ ► song from Apple Music," and that's it. From there, it kind of does everything that you'd expect it to
00:03:16 ◼ ► do. It ticks all the boxes. It also has some flaws, which you would expect. This is coming from a
00:03:23 ◼ ► great article on 9to5Mac. It doesn't seem that right now it will support iCloud Music Library
00:03:30 ◼ ► songs, meaning that these are stuff you upload yourself. The old iTunes match stuff. So,
00:03:35 ◼ ► if you upload something to your iCloud Music Library that doesn't exist in Apple Music,
00:03:39 ◼ ► you can't play it. It has to be in Apple Music. It seems like it's only looking at—it's not looking
00:03:50 ◼ ► Yeah. But because this is integrated into the Echo as a default music provider, it can actually do
00:03:56 ◼ ► some things that the HomePod cannot. Like, for example, you can set an Apple Music playlist or
00:04:01 ◼ ► a station as an alarm. So, you can set alarms, like morning alarms on the Amazon Echo, and it
00:04:06 ◼ ► can be music. And you can choose music from Apple Music, which is not something you can do on any
00:04:11 ◼ ► iOS device or on a HomePod. So, I guess it's kind of fun. It is, as was feared, we had somebody ask
00:04:21 ◼ ► about this last week. It is currently limited to Amazon Echo speakers only. So, this is not for—I'm
00:04:29 ◼ ► just gonna say it—this is not for Alexa devices. It has to be for Echo devices. So, the Sonos stuff,
00:04:36 ◼ ► it's not gonna work there for now, and who knows how long. Honestly, this feels like this is not
00:04:40 ◼ ► something that is in Sonos' hands. How frustrating is that to have a device that does Alexa and also
00:04:47 ◼ ► does Apple Music, and they don't work together? Yeah, that's why it makes it worse. Like,
00:04:51 ◼ ► I would more understand it if it was like all of the other products that exist. But the Sonos—
00:05:00 ◼ ► and this is through whatever the Alexa part of it is. And how do you reconcile those, or can you?
00:05:08 ◼ ► Is it impossible? Like, I get it, but it's super frustrating. And yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. Also,
00:05:17 ◼ ► I should say the Echo has multi-speaker support now. So, if you have multiple Echos, I believe
00:05:23 ◼ ► you can do the thing where you say, "Play this on the other one," or, "Play this everywhere,"
00:05:26 ◼ ► and it will work with Apple Music, which is great. But what it won't do is also play on a HomePod or
00:05:32 ◼ ► some other AirPlay 2 device, because it's not supporting AirPlay 2. It's just supporting playing
00:05:37 ◼ ► Apple Music in the Alexa ecosystem. Yep. Which, you know, if you want to—this is probably the
00:05:44 ◼ ► most cost-effective way right now to get multiple speakers playing Apple Music in your home, because
00:05:52 ◼ ► Amazon have such a variety of devices, including that $35 one that you just plug into speakers.
00:05:59 ◼ ► Yeah, I was going to say, if you've got a receiver with an input or a set of powered speakers,
00:06:05 ◼ ► and you can get an Echo Dot and just plug it into there, even if you only use that remotely, and
00:06:11 ◼ ► say from your main Echo, "Play this on my speakers," or something, that will work. And that's
00:06:19 ◼ ► interesting. Basically, yeah, you've got Amazon Music access like you had—or Apple Music access
00:06:25 ◼ ► on these devices, the Echos, like you had with Spotify. And so if you've already invested in
00:06:31 ◼ ► those and you also are an Apple Music person, it's like, "Okay, great. Now they're way more useful
00:06:35 ◼ ► than they were." Or if you're like me, you can drop your Amazon Music device supplementary
00:06:42 ◼ ► subscription that you got just so you could play music on the Echo, because now if you're already
00:06:51 ◼ ► Yeah. So this is cool. It's interesting to see. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but there was
00:06:58 ◼ ► nothing from Apple, no press release. But it's officially today, right, is supposed to be the day
00:07:04 ◼ ► that they said it was coming, but they seem to be rolling it out a bit sooner. So maybe we'll see
00:07:08 ◼ ► something. Maybe, or maybe your conspiracy theory from Connected will be right, and they'll just
00:07:18 ◼ ► page on apple.com and see if they add anything there. Because if they add it, that's probably
00:07:24 ◼ ► where it should go, because they have little icons and stuff to denote that you can listen on Android
00:07:31 ◼ ► devices and Sonos devices. So in theory, they should add the Amazon Echo. So there's actual
00:07:38 ◼ ► products there. So we'll see. We'll see. Upgradies, voting is still open until December 24th. I can
00:07:45 ◼ ► confirm, as was prophesized on the last episode, this is now the most nominated slash voted for
00:07:52 ◼ ► Upgradies of all time. It has eclipsed last year. So there is lots and lots of wonderful
00:07:57 ◼ ► suggestions coming in. And if you're looking for some inspiration for your votes, the folk over at
00:08:05 ◼ ► MacStories today just introduced MacStory Selects, which is their awards, which is really cool to see.
00:08:11 ◼ ► So Federico and John and Ryan got together and they voted on what their favorite apps of the year are.
00:08:16 ◼ ► Very helpful for me, Jason, because the apps of the year stuff is always the ones that I
00:08:20 ◼ ► really struggle with. So I'm pleased to see that the MacStories crew are kind of giving me some
00:08:26 ◼ ► inspiration for what could be voted on. But it's really cool. They have beautiful little rosettes
00:08:32 ◼ ► in a beautiful Federico style. I'm excited also. Wall Street has reacted positively to the news of
00:08:38 ◼ ► the Upgradies showing year over year growth. So that's good to know. We're moving into services,
00:08:43 ◼ ► though. Oh, boy. Let's talk some upstream news. We have a couple of pieces of Apple related
00:08:50 ◼ ► signings, I guess. Apple has acquired JJ Abrams produced drama series starring Jennifer Garner.
00:08:58 ◼ ► It is called My Glory Was I Had Such Friends, and it's a limited series. It's based on a memoir of
00:09:04 ◼ ► the same name. This is now the second Abrams produced drama series coming to Apple's TV service.
00:09:10 ◼ ► And they also have picked up Peanuts. So they've done a deal to get the rights to produce content
00:09:17 ◼ ► starring Charles M. Schultz's roster of characters for the uninitiated This Is Like Snoopy and
00:09:22 ◼ ► Charlie Brown. So this may include new series, some shorts, or maybe even kind of like feature
00:09:38 ◼ ► So it's two deals. So I mean, it's one overarching deal. One of the things they announced is they're
00:09:42 ◼ ► going to do short form STEM educational content, and they're also going to do specials or shows or
00:09:47 ◼ ► whatever else. There's all sorts of other stuff that they'll probably do. But I thought it was
00:09:50 ◼ ► an interesting, very specific thing that they're very specifically going to make educational
00:09:54 ◼ ► content featuring Snoopy that is about STEM topics. So the fact is, this is a lot like the
00:10:02 ◼ ► Sesame Street deal with HBO where Sesame Street episodes premiere on HBO now, and that was a way
00:10:07 ◼ ► for Sesame Workshop to get more funding because they were not essentially not funded well enough
00:10:12 ◼ ► by PBS. And the shows end up on PBS eventually, but they start on HBO. And I think it's interesting
00:10:28 ◼ ► which was JJ Abrams producing Jennifer Garner. This is the other part of that, right? It's not
00:10:34 ◼ ► just prestige dramas and star power and star producers and all of that. The other part of this
00:10:42 ◼ ► kind of battle for streaming supremacy is children's content. This is another front in that war,
00:10:50 ◼ ► which is I think everybody knows that one way you get parents to subscribe to something is that
00:10:57 ◼ ► there's stuff for their kids on it and that you can't just do adult. Well, you can, but it's an
00:11:06 ◼ ► somebody like Apple who is trying to focus on family content. That is an important thing for
00:11:11 ◼ ► them to do. And of course, hovering in the background, it's coming next year. Everybody
00:11:16 ◼ ► knows it is a streaming service with the Disney brand. And if the Disney brand means anything,
00:11:23 ◼ ► it means family-friendly content and kid content. So they got to be there. And that's what Apple is
00:11:37 ◼ ► their originals has just been renewed for a second season and that is David Letterman's
00:11:47 ◼ ► - Yeah, I wonder, they only announced this now. It's kind of funny because those episodes played
00:11:53 ◼ ► out into the summer. I'm a little surprised. I don't know whether this is Netflix considering
00:11:59 ◼ ► what they want to do or whether it was Letterman considering how he wanted to do it, or if they
00:12:03 ◼ ► gave him the nod six months ago and he's been working on this, but they've only announced it
00:12:07 ◼ ► now. I'm unclear on what exactly took them so long here. Netflix has had, we don't go into a lot of
00:12:13 ◼ ► the details here, but Netflix has definitely had ups and downs with talk show content where they're
00:12:19 ◼ ► trying to do, it's one of those things of like, how do you do something that is sort of timely,
00:12:25 ◼ ► but also bingeable and has a weekly release schedule maybe instead of being a binge drop
00:12:32 ◼ ► of a whole season. And they've tried a bunch of different things. Michelle Wolf had a show,
00:12:36 ◼ ► Joel McHale had a show that I really liked actually. They killed those shows. They gave,
00:12:48 ◼ ► which is very good. It is basically like John Oliver's show except no desk. He just stands
00:13:02 ◼ ► And they gave him like a 30-week deal and that show runs weekly. So Netflix wants, and I think
00:13:11 ◼ ► believes that there's something to it, to have these kind of shows that can extend, that can be
00:13:16 ◼ ► timely. I think they're looking at HBO and HBO having success with this and looking at, yeah,
00:13:22 ◼ ► Comedy Central and stuff like that and saying, can we do something as part of our portfolio that can
00:13:27 ◼ ► fulfill this desire from people to have this kind of talk show or otherwise kind of conversational
00:13:33 ◼ ► and topical stuff. I'm not sure they've cracked it yet, but they're trying a bunch of different
00:13:38 ◼ ► stuff. And bringing Letterman back, I mean, this is a monthly thing again like it was last year.
00:13:42 ◼ ► It's six episodes presumably dropped once a month. But it's still really interesting to watch how
00:13:49 ◼ ► Netflix struggles with this because like Hasan Minhaj, I read an interview with him where he
00:13:52 ◼ ► said their challenge is they want to be topical, but they also want for it to be kind of evergreen
00:14:04 ◼ ► they don't feel outdated. That you can go back and watch six of them and not feel like,
00:14:12 ◼ ► why would you watch a news show from three weeks ago? They wanted them to be replayable.
00:14:17 ◼ ► And that's a challenge with Netflix where it's like people have expectations of Netflix that
00:14:22 ◼ ► don't necessarily work with traditional views of providing topical content. So it's a fascinating
00:14:27 ◼ ► thing to watch Netflix, which has done so well in so many areas. And this is an area where they just
00:14:32 ◼ ► haven't figured it out yet. Yeah, they put clips of Patriot Act, which is Minhaj's show on YouTube,
00:14:38 ◼ ► which I think is one of the things that Netflix has been missing. Yeah, and HBO does that with
00:14:43 ◼ ► John Oliver. Yeah, they all do it. They all do it. Like I was watching some people were sharing some
00:14:48 ◼ ► Saturday Night Live clips this morning. Sure, totally. It's part of the strategy. It's a little
00:14:52 ◼ ► different if you're a premium streaming service or like HBO, right? I always thought it was like,
00:14:56 ◼ ► and I think that's why that they've always kind of not wanted to do it, maybe Netflix, right? But
00:15:01 ◼ ► like, this is how I think you get people to watch these shows is they need to see those little clips
00:15:06 ◼ ► first because that's what the late night talk show is now. It's a bunch of attempts at going viral.
00:15:11 ◼ ► That's what they are. And finally, WarnerMedia have hired Kevin Reilly to run their streaming
00:15:18 ◼ ► service. Reilly has been a chief creative officer at Turner and was previously the programmer for
00:15:24 ◼ ► Fox and NBC. So you told me this is a big deal. Yeah, this is a big deal. And I know it's insider
00:15:31 ◼ ► baseball in the sense that it is just a name of a guy who's a suit, a corporate suit kind of thing.
00:15:35 ◼ ► But here's the thing with Kevin Reilly. He's a highly respected programmer. He was the programmer
00:15:40 ◼ ► at the Fox broadcast network. He was the programmer. And this means someone who sets the
00:15:44 ◼ ► television schedule, right? Not someone's sitting there coding in the backend. No, he's, yeah,
00:15:48 ◼ ► that's true. Sorry. This is the upstream segment. Upstream programmers are different from the rest
00:15:52 ◼ ► of the programmers we talked about on this show. Sorry, they're software engineers, Myke. Dr.
00:15:56 ◼ ► Drang has exploded somewhere. So the Fox TV network and the NBC TV network, he was the guy
00:16:03 ◼ ► who was in charge of what shows do we make? What gets the green light? What doesn't? What shows do
00:16:08 ◼ ► we cancel? He is very well respected. He is generally thought of as having a very good taste,
00:16:15 ◼ ► very successful as a programmer. Recently, he's been doing the programming at TBS and TNT, which
00:16:21 ◼ ► are Turner, which is of course owned by Warner Media now. And so I think this is an amazing,
00:16:29 ◼ ► great move. I think that one of the challenges that all of these services have is you got to have
00:16:32 ◼ ► good programmers. You've got to have good content people. And the New York Times did a big profile
00:16:37 ◼ ► over the weekend of the person who's in charge of the movies at Netflix. And once again, that stat
00:16:42 ◼ ► that you and I, I think I've talked about before that Netflix plans on releasing something like 60
00:16:47 ◼ ► movies in a year, which yes means that they're releasing more than one movie a week. That's an
00:16:52 ◼ ► original Netflix feature film, which is baffling. It's mind boggling. But these people matter
00:16:59 ◼ ► because these are the people who are making those decisions. They're shaping what the network
00:17:02 ◼ ► or service looks like. And if they have good instincts and good taste and good relationships,
00:17:10 ◼ ► they can produce an overall product, which is what you want if you're trying to convince somebody to
00:17:14 ◼ ► subscribe to your service, that can be really successful. And you see this with some of the
00:17:21 ◼ ► other people. It'll be interesting to see what happens with John Landgraf, who is the programmer
00:17:24 ◼ ► at the FX networks, which are going to be brought inside of Disney next year. Is Landgraf going to
00:17:30 ◼ ► be put in charge of Hulu maybe or something like that? We'll see. But Riley anyway, generally
00:17:37 ◼ ► well thought of guy and Warner, it's telling, I think for WarnerMedia to say, yeah, he's the guy,
00:17:44 ◼ ► like it's all going to go to him. We're not going to have all these different fiefdoms inside of
00:17:47 ◼ ► Warner. We're going to have Riley in charge of the content for Warner's streaming service. And
00:18:11 ◼ ► and we're going to be talking about the Christmas classic Miracle on 34th Street. So we've got that
00:18:17 ◼ ► at the end of the episode. And whilst we're talking about holiday classics, next week's
00:18:22 ◼ ► episode of Upgrade is going to be the holiday special, and it is very special and very holiday.
00:18:27 ◼ ► Yes, it is. It is. We've got it in the works. It is a special format, but it leads, it is not a
00:18:37 ◼ ► departure in the sense of it being not about Apple and tech, but it is a departure in format a little
00:18:44 ◼ ► bit. There will be special guests as there were last year, I believe. Should we say how many
00:18:50 ◼ ► special guests there will be? I think saying how many might give away what we're doing. So we'll
00:18:56 ◼ ► just say it is a classic format that, like, very classic. A very classic number of guests to have.
00:19:12 ◼ ► by Luna Display. Luna Display is the hardware solution that turns your iPad into a wireless
00:19:19 ◼ ► display for your Mac. So you'll have a super portable second display with stunning image
00:19:24 ◼ ► quality and basically zero lag. Jason Snell, I have my Mac Mini now. Yes. And I've set it up with
00:19:30 ◼ ► my Luna Display. And I am consistently blown away with how well this thing works. You just plug it
00:19:38 ◼ ► in, and the app launches on its own. You get it set all up. And now I just have this Mac Mini just
00:19:44 ◼ ► sitting here, no display attached to it. And whenever I want to jump on it, I just open the
00:19:49 ◼ ► Luna Display app on my iPad, and I can sit and just use it like it's a Mac. I cannot believe how
00:19:56 ◼ ► well this thing works. Yeah, I've been using remote desktop software to connect to my Mac
00:20:04 ◼ ► Mini for a very long time. The difference is because it's using the hardware acceleration
00:20:11 ◼ ► and all the other kind of like magic stuff because the Luna Display has its little module that you
00:20:16 ◼ ► plug into it that poses as a monitor. You end up with a much higher quality and more responsive
00:20:23 ◼ ► screen sharing in your house than, and just on my Wi-Fi. I don't need to be tethered or anything
00:20:28 ◼ ► like that. It's pretty great. Like the initial concept of this thing was that you could use it
00:20:33 ◼ ► as a second monitor. And actually if you want a second monitor and you've got a beautiful iPad
00:20:39 ◼ ► with a retina display just sitting there, you could do that too. But as a screen sharing resource
00:20:43 ◼ ► to have a Mac somewhere in your house and then just have an iPad and be able to control it
00:20:50 ◼ ► natively, it's pretty great. And so I'm doing that now too in the house. I still have my screen
00:20:55 ◼ ► sharing software for out of the house or from my Mac. But when I'm on my iPad in the house with the
00:21:00 ◼ ► keyboard, it's just, yeah, I can turn it into a Mac and it feels like a Mac. Keyboard, Apple Pencil,
00:21:07 ◼ ► like that is perfect. The Apple Pencil is so good, right? Because the touch targets can be small.
00:21:12 ◼ ► The Apple Pencil does it perfectly. Yeah, I think it's fantastic. I'm so, so happy with it. And
00:21:16 ◼ ► listeners of this show can get an exclusive 10% discount on the Luna Display. Just head over to
00:21:21 ◼ ► lunadisplay.com. That is L-U-N-A-D-I-S-P-L-A-Y.com. Enter the promo code upgrade at checkout and you'll
00:21:29 ◼ ► get that 10% off. That is lunadisplay.com promo code upgrade at checkout. Our thanks to Luna
00:21:34 ◼ ► Display for their support of this show and all of Relay FM. Jason Stiles, should we talk about
00:21:39 ◼ ► magazines? Oh boy, people love magazines. I feel like with a topic like this, there is literally
00:21:47 ◼ ► nobody better placed to discuss magazines and Apple together. So we have a report from Jerry Smith at
00:21:58 ◼ ► Bloomberg. Apple is planning to put its purchase of the magazine subscription service, Texture,
00:22:04 ◼ ► which it picked up in March of this year to good use, as they are preparing to launch a new service
00:22:10 ◼ ► that has unlimited access to over 200 magazines and publications, possibly for $5 a month.
00:22:20 ◼ ► Did somebody say services revenue? Who said services revenue? We don't talk about it so much,
00:22:29 ◼ ► but the Texture purchase is absolutely another attempt for Apple to build another part of their
00:22:33 ◼ ► services business. I've completely forgotten about it, to be honest. Yeah, so it's still operating,
00:22:39 ◼ ► is the funny thing, and they have kind of cut it to this $5 a month. Whether they keep it there or
00:22:42 ◼ ► not, I don't know. Clearly the plan here is Apple wants to create a way where you can, inside of
00:22:48 ◼ ► Apple News, opt to pay for a service for like $5 or whatever a month. Again, recurring revenue,
00:22:54 ◼ ► more money to the bottom line of that services line. It's great. And what you get out of it is
00:22:59 ◼ ► access to paywalled content, basically, of a bunch of different publications. And we talk about it
00:23:07 ◼ ► being magazines. I think what this story suggests is they're trying very much to get away from the
00:23:13 ◼ ► idea of a print magazine replica and more into basically just content feeds that go into Apple
00:23:19 ◼ ► News. So that you spend $5 on this and all of the content from all these different magazines
00:23:26 ◼ ► and websites is just available to you to read without hitting a paywall. And when I think about
00:23:32 ◼ ► this, and this may not be what they're doing, but when I think about this, I think about this as a
00:23:36 ◼ ► way for Apple to say, "We made deals with a whole bunch of places that you get frustrated because
00:23:41 ◼ ► you try to read their stuff and you hit a paywall. But if you pay us $5 a month and subscribe to them
00:23:46 ◼ ► in Apple News, you'll never hit a paywall. You can read anything you like in any of these different
00:23:51 ◼ ► places." And it's an interesting idea. I think one of the big questions is, "Does it make sense?
00:24:01 ◼ ► Would the money that would go to the publications be enough to keep them running?" And I think the
00:24:05 ◼ ► answer is probably no, but it might be a good supplemental source. And that's how, when I think
00:24:10 ◼ ► about this, that's what I end up coming back to is, it feels like the right business model here is,
00:24:15 ◼ ► there are the premium websites that want to sell to you direct, they want you to subscribe direct.
00:24:20 ◼ ► And I think the more Apple can do to make it easy to subscribe to The New York Times, The Wall Street
00:24:25 ◼ ► Journal, Washington Post, whatever, from inside Apple News, but the money goes back to them,
00:24:36 ◼ ► that unlocks the content in sites that you're not necessarily as focused on, you're not the--
00:24:45 ◼ ► The one that always gets me is, I click on a link and I go to a site somewhere and it's like a news,
00:24:51 ◼ ► a local newspaper site in Phoenix. And they're like, "You can't read this story because we want
00:24:56 ◼ ► you to subscribe." And I think, "I'm never going to subscribe to a newspaper from Phoenix, so I
00:25:00 ◼ ► guess I'll just close the window." Is there an opportunity there for that newspaper in Phoenix
00:25:08 ◼ ► to get a little bit of money from my reading of their article as a part of the $5 a month or
00:25:14 ◼ ► whatever Apple service? Some percentage of that goes to them because I read their article
00:25:20 ◼ ► and it's better than what they got from me, which was zero because I was not interested in
00:25:31 ◼ ► This is the challenge is the economics are problematic if you've got literally every magazine,
00:25:38 ◼ ► every magazine brand and other website brands-- because I think newspapers need to be involved
00:25:42 ◼ ► in this too-- in a content unlocking system because they're sharing that money based on how many
00:25:49 ◼ ► people are reading them. I don't know. It's a tough one. I'm pretty skeptical about it,
00:25:55 ◼ ► but it's possible it could work, but they're going to have to get it right. I'm concerned that the
00:26:00 ◼ ► all-you-can-read thing just is never going to be able to support any of these news organizations,
00:26:04 ◼ ► but it would be nice. As a reader of stuff on the internet, it might motivate me to use Apple
00:26:11 ◼ ► News more if I knew that I would be less likely to hit a paywall and an annoying blocking thing,
00:26:19 ◼ ► and that I was supporting the sites that I was reading. But I don't know. I think talking about
00:26:25 ◼ ► this in the context of magazines is actually a bad thing because what they're trying to do here is
00:26:30 ◼ ► lead these magazines to be more sort of Apple News native with their content. So Apple's not gonna--
00:26:40 ◼ ► I would be very surprised if Apple embraced the idea that they're going to put page replicas
00:26:53 ◼ ► So the problem is we don't have another word to call this. If you read a story on The Atlantic
00:26:57 ◼ ► or The New Yorker, those are magazines, but you wouldn't call them newspapers. They are
00:27:02 ◼ ► content websites, and that's really what I think is going on here. What do you do with a lot of
00:27:07 ◼ ► these long-form content websites, some of which also do some news, that are struggling because
00:27:14 ◼ ► they used to be magazines and they maybe still have a magazine component? How do you get more
00:27:18 ◼ ► revenue to them? And the truth is people aren't going to subscribe to more than a handful,
00:27:24 ◼ ► but this Apple subscription service might be able to give you access to a bunch of them all in one
00:27:29 ◼ ► go. That's kind of interesting. So it seems like the current plan would be that this is going to
00:27:37 ◼ ► be an add-on feature inside of Apple News. And as you say, what it probably means is there'll
00:27:47 ◼ ► content. A lot of it is actually the same stuff. If you do actually a company that has a magazine,
00:27:53 ◼ ► or you're a company like Bloomberg, I wonder if Bloomberg, I wonder if this is where Bloomberg
00:27:58 ◼ ► found this out, but anyway, that you could offer this stuff from your paywalls through Apple News
00:28:05 ◼ ► and everybody gets a cart of an amount of money. Apparently this could launch as soon as spring.
00:28:11 ◼ ► This is before WWDC, which makes me think along with the TV service, they maybe do a big
00:28:18 ◼ ► like content event. I would you, would you allow even a little bit of the spotlight for your TV
00:28:25 ◼ ► service to fall on magazines instead? I wouldn't. If they're going to bundle it all up into one
00:28:30 ◼ ► subscription, maybe. Yeah, maybe. That's a question we get a lot that I think is worth asking, which
00:28:35 ◼ ► is, would it be, at what point does Apple roll out a prime like kind of bundle that is just like,
00:28:42 ◼ ► you know, given all the things. That's the only reason that I can imagine them doing it that way.
00:28:46 ◼ ► I could even imagine them like showing it off then very quickly and doing a bigger thing later
00:28:55 ◼ ► down the line. Like maybe it doesn't come to the same or whatever, but I can, I would be surprised
00:29:01 ◼ ► to see Apple with like multiple separate services that you pay for. I don't think they will go that
00:29:07 ◼ ► way. You mean like now? Like now. But I mean, but when they have like content services, like my,
00:29:13 ◼ ► one of the things I can imagine they will sell them all individually, but I also imagine a bundle
00:29:18 ◼ ► where you get them for a slight discount. But I could be wrong. So according to Bloomberg,
00:29:29 ◼ ► companies like that. But they are getting some pushback as is feared that Apple would cannibalize
00:29:36 ◼ ► the subscribers that these publications could or already do have. And then just give them a small
00:29:42 ◼ ► fraction of the sum rather than getting a much higher price if sold directly. Yeah. This is what
00:29:48 ◼ ► I said earlier, which is the top tier stuff. They're, they're not going to want this, right?
00:29:54 ◼ ► They're going to want to sell like if I'm the New York Times, my goal is not to get a fraction of a
00:29:58 ◼ ► fraction of something from Apple. My goal is to convert people to online subscriptions to the New
00:30:04 ◼ ► York Times. And I don't think that's going to change. So what Apple needs to do is make
00:30:08 ◼ ► those companies either provide, I think they already do this in Apple news, right? Where
00:30:12 ◼ ► they provide a limited number of stories for free if you read it in Apple news. But like in the long
00:30:19 ◼ ► run, they want, you know, they want people to pay them directly or more or less directly. And
00:30:25 ◼ ► if you can make it easier to sign up for the wall street journal inside Apple news for a subscription
00:30:30 ◼ ► and unlock everything, then great. But if I was the wall street journal, I would never ever,
00:30:34 ◼ ► ever want to be part of a $5 a month all you can read plan for all my content, maybe for a subset,
00:30:40 ◼ ► but they may go from making $4 and 50 cents profit after fees to 50 cents, right? Like if they're
00:30:48 ◼ ► split up between all these other companies, it seems, it seems like a tough ask. Apple is saying
00:30:54 ◼ ► apparently to the companies, they'll make it up in volume, which is like, it's like such a tough
00:31:08 ◼ ► Would you do it with six colors? No, because I don't have a paywall. Right. But like, no,
00:31:14 ◼ ► I mean, that's my answer is no, I don't have a paywall. And if I were going to do a paywall,
00:31:19 ◼ ► I don't think I would do a paywall where I take a fraction of Apple's $5 all you can read,
00:31:25 ◼ ► because my site is appealing to a relatively small number of people who are intensely focused on the
00:31:32 ◼ ► subjects I write about. And if I ever were to convert six colors to something more like
00:31:37 ◼ ► Stratechery, which would require basically the bottom to drop out of what remains of the
00:31:42 ◼ ► written word freelance world that I still work in regularly, there's no way that I would put that
00:31:50 ◼ ► inside of somebody else's service to get fractional revenue. I would sell it direct to people like Ben
00:31:54 ◼ ► Thompson does for a hundred dollars a year or something. And that's what I would do. So
00:31:58 ◼ ► no circumstances would I use something like this. I really struggle with this thing, this service
00:32:05 ◼ ► like one. Okay. So there's a couple things. One, it doesn't interest me anyway, really like,
00:32:09 ◼ ► this is not something I'm probably going to sign up for because this is content that I'm not really
00:32:13 ◼ ► looking for, but there's this, there's just like a bunch of like weird parts to it where it's like,
00:32:22 ◼ ► Right. It's totally true. I mean, there are, there are lots, this is much better than newsstand in
00:32:27 ◼ ► the sense that it is not requiring publishers. Newsstand was a disaster and it was a disaster
00:32:31 ◼ ► because Steve Jobs saw demos of WYSI apps and thought this is the future. At which point,
00:32:38 ◼ ► instead of giving publishers a standard format, like in iBooks or Apple news to write their
00:32:46 ◼ ► content to, they suddenly all had every single publisher had to be an app developer. It was
00:32:50 ◼ ► really good for app development contract shops because they suddenly had a lot of business,
00:32:55 ◼ ► but it was very bad for everybody else because it was super expensive and the results were poor.
00:32:59 ◼ ► And this is better in the sense that it's just a content feed and Apple built the app and it's
00:33:05 ◼ ► Apple news and you have some control over it. You've got some, you know, richer layout features.
00:33:11 ◼ ► It's a much better experience. So it's better than that, but you're right in the sense that it is
00:33:16 ◼ ► maybe some struggling publishers hoping Apple will provide them with a lifeline. But when you
00:33:21 ◼ ► start to pencil it out, it becomes a little bit harder to imagine what this lifeline is. And if
00:33:26 ◼ ► you're, you know, in the end, it comes back to, uh, the, you know, we'll give you pennies, but what
00:33:33 ◼ ► you really want is to convert everybody to be a premium subscriber and get access to all this,
00:33:38 ◼ ► uh, above and beyond stuff. And, you know, that means that the best this service I think could
00:33:47 ◼ ► who are less casual readers and maybe convert them into, into, um, into subscribers later. But I just
00:33:54 ◼ ► don't see the service being something that, you know, saves the business of you name it, you know,
00:34:00 ◼ ► saves the Atlantic, saves Wired. Like now Wired just gets its money from Apple and everybody is
00:34:06 ◼ ► happy. I don't think that is, um, reasonable at all. Because then like, it also opens up all these
00:34:14 ◼ ► other problems of like, who does Apple let in? And then what does that mean? Right? Like what
00:34:21 ◼ ► publishers get let into this? Like from what political leanings and what groups? And then it's
00:34:26 ◼ ► like, well, it's like, it's just like, it just feels like this is, there's a lot of potential
00:34:31 ◼ ► issues with something like this and I'm not necessarily sure I can see a real huge upside to it
00:34:38 ◼ ► for anyone really. Yeah. It's a, uh, Apple news is a weird beast in general. Um, Apple thinks,
00:34:50 ◼ ► I mean, this is Apple's RSS reader, right? Like Google killed Google reader. Apple wrote
00:34:55 ◼ ► Apple news. Like Apple wants to, to have this experience. They care about it. It's a weird app.
00:35:01 ◼ ► I don't love it. I don't use it very much. Um, but people do use it. It doesn't make money for
00:35:08 ◼ ► publishers, but people do use it. So, you know, I don't, I don't know. I like, wouldn't it be nice
00:35:14 ◼ ► if you could pay a monthly fee to unlock all the content inside Apple news and know that money was
00:35:20 ◼ ► going back to the people who made that content and that money was substantial enough that it
00:35:25 ◼ ► helped them keep their businesses afloat. Absolutely all true. I have, I have skepticism about
00:35:31 ◼ ► many, if not most of those points in that scenario, but wouldn't it be nice? Sure. It would be great.
00:35:38 ◼ ► I feel like in the end, what's going to happen is what, something speaking of Ben Thompson,
00:35:47 ◼ ► uh, publications where you are willing to spend money and you're going to get publications that
00:35:53 ◼ ► drive, uh, massive amounts of traffic for ads. And, uh, not a lot in between. And those publications
00:36:01 ◼ ► that'll get you to spend money could be large publications like the New York times, the Wall Street
00:36:05 ◼ ► journal, the Washington post. It could be niche publications like Strychtery, but, uh, and then,
00:36:11 ◼ ► you know, and then there's the buzz feeds of the world, but that may, you know, that might be it.
00:36:18 ◼ ► Like there may be a few, what, what happens to the New Yorker is some people will pay for the
00:36:22 ◼ ► New Yorker and no, and other people won't. And hopefully they'll get enough people that they can
00:36:26 ◼ ► stay in business, but that's kind of, you know, can Apple somehow make this work on the inside?
00:36:31 ◼ ► I appreciate that they're trying, but yeah, it's hard to really imagine how this is going to
00:36:36 ◼ ► actually work. I'm glad that's not my job. Yeah, no thanks. Today's show is brought to you by
00:36:42 ◼ ► Green Chef. Green Chef is a meal delivery service that includes everything you need to cook delicious
00:36:48 ◼ ► gourmet meals that you can feel good about. Green Chef sends a wide variety of organic ingredients
00:36:53 ◼ ► and imaginative new recipes every week. And they have meal plans that include different dietary
00:36:59 ◼ ► requirements. They do meal plans for paleo, vegan, vegetarian diets, keto, gluten-free, omnivore,
00:37:05 ◼ ► and carnivore too. Green Chef is the first USDA certified organic meal delivery service. Every
00:37:11 ◼ ► ingredient is thoughtfully sourced. It's journey is tracked from planting to plating and their
00:37:16 ◼ ► recipes include pre-made sauces, dressings, and spices so you can get more flavor in less time.
00:37:22 ◼ ► Jason, can you tell me like what makes cooking these types of meals easy with Green Chef?
00:37:27 ◼ ► Yeah, it's uh, well, so we got the vegetarian, which was interesting because I'm not a vegetarian,
00:37:32 ◼ ► but they were very tasty. Um, they're easy to make. They don't take too long. You get relatively,
00:37:37 ◼ ► you know, you're getting fresh ingredients in the box and, uh, making it yourself, but they also
00:37:42 ◼ ► are trying to make it easy where like you'll get things in little packages so that you don't have
00:37:49 ◼ ► to take a big thing and then chop it up and process it a lot. They try to reduce some of the
00:37:54 ◼ ► drudgery of some of the processing, but you're cooking it yourself and serving it in a relatively
00:37:59 ◼ ► small amount of time, which is really nice. So having, um, having something like Green Chef,
00:38:03 ◼ ► you can plan your week. So we got this and we got, I think we got three because I think we've
00:38:08 ◼ ► got the two person thing and you know, that's like three days of the week planned for us, which was,
00:38:13 ◼ ► uh, it was pretty great. Not having to do the meal planning is like my favorite part. Right. And they
00:38:19 ◼ ► have a family plan with two dinners for a family of four. We ended up with the, the, the, the three
00:38:24 ◼ ► for a family of two and my daughter was on vacation with friends that week. So it was a weird thing
00:38:29 ◼ ► where we were actually kind of extending the meals for two to serve, uh, two or three, depending on my
00:38:35 ◼ ► son's preference for the meals that we were making, but they were great. I would make several of them
00:38:41 ◼ ► again. I've saved their menu cards cause you can make them again yourself later. Um, so it's,
00:38:46 ◼ ► it's not only a food acquisition service for a couple of days a week. Um, but also a menu
00:38:52 ◼ ► acquisition service, a recipe acquisition service for programming the other days of the week. So
00:38:58 ◼ ► yeah, yeah, it's a very convenient and fun, uh, and the, the vegetarian, and again, I'm not
00:39:03 ◼ ► predisposed to like vegetarian stuff. Uh, and it was all really good, like really, really good.
00:39:08 ◼ ► For $50 off your first box of green chef, go to green chef.us/upgrade. That's green chef.us/upgrade
00:39:18 ◼ ► for $50 off your first box of green chef. Our thanks to green chef for their support of this
00:39:22 ◼ ► show and relay FM. There's that, uh, as a top four member special, right in the relay FM members feed
00:39:29 ◼ ► at the salad episode. Yes. That shows your, uh, predisposition to vegetables. Yeah. It's not just
00:39:36 ◼ ► me. I mean, Dan and, uh, and Tiff and Marco are in there and we, uh, there was a lot of cheese and
00:39:41 ◼ ► croutons picked in that one, but yeah, the best salad of all time was created. Yes. Yes. It's
00:39:47 ◼ ► cheese croutons. Uh, what else is in there? Salad dressing. Are there vegetables in there? Maybe.
00:39:56 ◼ ► So Jason and apple pencil sitting in a tree T A P P I N G. You've, uh, professed your love for the
00:40:04 ◼ ► apple pencil. Do I have to say hashtag Myke was right. You just did it. So that's all I need.
00:40:10 ◼ ► The mere utterance of the phrase gives me power. That's all it takes. I've made a horrible mistake.
00:40:16 ◼ ► So I was very excited, uh, to see this headline over on Macworld in your more color, um, column.
00:40:37 ◼ ► It won't take long. Um, basically the apple pencil came out and whenever there was something new with
00:40:46 ◼ ► the apple pencil, I would find, try to find my apple pencil wherever I had left it last
00:40:51 ◼ ► and then realize it was dead and have to plug it in awkwardly to the bottom of my iPad and have
00:40:57 ◼ ► it sort of stick out and charge. And then I would, you know, go doo doo doo doo doo. Oh yeah, I could
00:41:04 ◼ ► write on this and it's searchable text or, Oh, I drew a stick figure. Yay. Here's a sun. Yeah.
00:41:11 ◼ ► And then I would be down and I would tree and I would put it away and I would not use it again.
00:41:15 ◼ ► Cause basically most of the stories about, especially early on, which is when I spent the
00:41:20 ◼ ► most time with it, right when the iPad pro came out, the 12.9 came out the first time in 2015,
00:41:25 ◼ ► I, um, would try that stuff out so I could have the experience of it, but like it was all kind of
00:41:32 ◼ ► in the context of note-taking or drawing. And I am not a, I'm not a pen and or pencil enthusiast,
00:41:40 ◼ ► Myke, unlike some, I have never liked handwriting. My handwriting has always been terrible.
00:41:45 ◼ ► The moment I could type my papers and turn them in at school, I did so, uh, the very moment that
00:41:52 ◼ ► that was allowed, I did so. Um, and I kept asking until they said, yes, I just, I've never, I don't
00:41:57 ◼ ► draw. I, my handwriting is bad. I, my relationship with, with stylists is, has always been poor.
00:42:04 ◼ ► So I had very little enthusiasm beyond sort of like getting the experience of what the Apple
00:42:09 ◼ ► pencil can do and how it feels like to keep going. Um, besides which, yes, there's no attachment
00:42:16 ◼ ► method and it rolled away and, uh, charging it was awkward. So like when I would think,
00:42:23 ◼ ► Oh, could I try the Apple pencil here? I would be like, I don't know where it is and it's not
00:42:27 ◼ ► charged and I just, I'm not going to bother. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So my relationship with the
00:42:31 ◼ ► Apple pencil probably over the course of the three years of the original Apple pencil, almost,
00:42:39 ◼ ► uh, was, you know, did I hold it in my hand for as long as an hour in total over that time
00:42:45 ◼ ► put together? Probably not. It was probably less than that. Yeah. Like the Apple pencil too,
00:42:50 ◼ ► has a bunch of nice features, right? The matte finish is nice to hold the flat edge means it
00:42:55 ◼ ► doesn't roll away so easy. There's no more cap, you know, and it has the little function thing
00:42:59 ◼ ► that you can do, but the single best thing about it. And I think the reason that it has made more
00:43:04 ◼ ► people excited about it is one, the fact that it's like, it is the inductive charging, but the two
00:43:10 ◼ ► points of that, which make it interesting, which is one, it's always where it needs to be. And two,
00:43:15 ◼ ► it always has power. Like that has so monumentally changed what this product, this accessory is.
00:43:22 ◼ ► It's made it like something completely brand new again. Yeah. It's, it's, um, it's around,
00:43:28 ◼ ► right? Even if it's not attached, it's around because you, you know, you don't just have some
00:43:35 ◼ ► money to at least place it somewhere. I mean, you can, but like, I feel like because it's magnetically
00:43:38 ◼ ► attached, you choose to take it off and you place it somewhere rather than it just kind of like,
00:43:43 ◼ ► you know, you're using your iPad and it doesn't attach. So it's laying there and then it gets
00:43:47 ◼ ► covered with something and it's gone. Like you choose to disengage it and place it somewhere
00:43:51 ◼ ► that makes a difference. It doesn't roll as easily off of tables and things, which is helpful.
00:43:58 ◼ ► The charging is not awkward. So if you're thinking you're going to use it, you can attach it. I never,
00:44:02 ◼ ► I never liked or really did use an iPad pro with the pencil charging sticking out. Cause I hated
00:44:12 ◼ ► it. I hated how it looked. I hated how it felt. It felt like it was going to snap off. Like I just,
00:44:18 ◼ ► it made me quite nervous and anxious and I didn't like it. Whereas this one, if you're like, oh,
00:44:25 ◼ ► I might use the pencil later, snap, you snap it on it's charging. It's, uh, it's with you.
00:44:30 ◼ ► And then when you take it off, you put it somewhere and think this is where the pencil's
00:44:34 ◼ ► going. So it has made it just that has made it more available, which I think makes a difference.
00:44:41 ◼ ► I also, yes, it's, uh, it's a little bit nicer to hold the, the mat finish is nicer. It just feels
00:44:49 ◼ ► nicer. So it's also more pleasant to you. So there are a lot of things they did in the hardware
00:44:52 ◼ ► upgrade side of it that made it more likely that I would be able to give it a try again, rather than
00:44:57 ◼ ► kind of leaving it where it was, uh, wherever that was. Cause I, you know, most of the time I didn't
00:45:01 ◼ ► even know where is that Apple pencil. Did it get, is it in the pencil with, in the little, uh, we
00:45:06 ◼ ► have a little like bowl that has a bunch of pens and pencils in it. I would often go over there
00:45:10 ◼ ► and find it in there. Yeah. And the pen cup, there'd be the Apple pencil would be in there
00:45:13 ◼ ► like, ah, it is there. Great. Yeah. So if you're, if you don't have right and you don't draw, what
00:45:22 ◼ ► are you doing with it? So for me, uh, this all came about because I wanted to use again, the
00:45:28 ◼ ► Apple pencil number two pencil, uh, for something to try it out. And in the intervening time, since
00:45:36 ◼ ► I really, since the first one came out, um, fair, right. Recording studio, the, um, the iPad audio
00:45:43 ◼ ► editing app podcast editing app that I use added a whole bunch of support for the pencil and a new
00:45:50 ◼ ► beta that is now released, added support for the gestures on the, or, you know, the double tap on
00:45:56 ◼ ► the pencil too. So I thought I would give it a try and I thought, let's edit. What, what would it be
00:46:02 ◼ ► like? Cause I, I added, uh, in ferrite a lot, but I do it with my fingers. It was like, what if I
00:46:08 ◼ ► brought the pencil in to the party? What would that be like? Um, so that's what made me try it
00:46:13 ◼ ► is, is I, I here's an app that is not a note taking app and it is not a drawing app. It is
00:46:18 ◼ ► something that I do that could perhaps be improved by the Apple pencil. That is not one of these
00:46:24 ◼ ► things that I don't, that I don't do that I don't like and I don't do. And, um, and it's really
00:46:31 ◼ ► great, like really great. Um, I have it set up so that the pencil is I'm double tapping on the
00:46:40 ◼ ► pencil to do play or pause, um, which is otherwise to finger tap on the screen I have set up, but
00:46:46 ◼ ► that requires my hands to shift position and tap on the screen. And I can do an awful lot of editing
00:46:51 ◼ ► with holding the iPad and writing on it with the pencil rather than, um, getting my fingers down,
00:46:57 ◼ ► which is actually great for selecting things, uh, to delete, especially I do a lot because of the
00:47:02 ◼ ► way I edit a podcast. I'm doing a lot of deleting cause I do strip silence, which pulls out all the
00:47:08 ◼ ► areas of silence, but there are still little areas where there was a slight amount of sound,
00:47:13 ◼ ► but nobody is talking. And I need to clean all of that up and delete it and then do some detailed
00:47:18 ◼ ► edits when people are talking as well. I can do most of that with the pencil. And then my fingers,
00:47:22 ◼ ► while I'm holding the iPad are really doing nothing more than sort of scrolling left to right.
00:47:27 ◼ ► Um, and I can go through and, and I found it, it's quite delightful actually to delete all the stuff
00:47:35 ◼ ► I need to delete the regions, uh, triple tap on, uh, on a track and then slide it to move everything
00:47:43 ◼ ► that's forward of it. All of these are gestures that I had before, but I had to do with my fingers.
00:47:47 ◼ ► The pencil is more precise for the edits editing detail in, in what people are saying was very hard
00:47:54 ◼ ► with my fingers because the fingers aren't very precise and the pencil is much more precise. So
00:47:59 ◼ ► not that I couldn't do it, it just took more steps and I would have to do some undos and I'd have to
00:48:04 ◼ ► re you know, move the editor around in order to get it exactly where I wanted. And with the pencil,
00:48:08 ◼ ► it's a lot easier to get it right the first time. So in the end, um, not only was it successful and
00:48:14 ◼ ► I added a whole episode of the incomparable using ferrite and the Apple pencil. I did that over
00:48:20 ◼ ► Thanksgiving when I was traveling, but I have edited the last five episodes of the incomparable
00:48:27 ◼ ► on the iPad. Look at you. Wow. Okay. So this is, this is when you know, the experiment worked when
00:48:34 ◼ ► it became the choice you made. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it. And I think it is a superior
00:48:41 ◼ ► experience to using my fingers. Like I said, mostly because the fingers, you know, the finger
00:48:47 ◼ ► gestures and stuff are, they're great. They're very powerful, but you know, the precision of the
00:48:53 ◼ ► pencil tip versus a, you know, meaty fingertip, it's just, it's, it's much more precise, which
00:48:58 ◼ ► means that now I'm editing some of the, in, you know, the way I edit, you get a block of somebody
00:49:05 ◼ ► talking and that's their kind of monologue. And it was always less likely that I was going to edit
00:49:09 ◼ ► in those blocks, edit in between when people are talking and clean things up. But now I will see
00:49:14 ◼ ► in the wave forms, I'll see somebody have a pause or an um, or they'll, or I'll hear them repeat or
00:49:19 ◼ ► stutter. And with the pencil, I could be like, and just take it out and it's gone, which is more,
00:49:26 ◼ ► I'm so I'm actually a more active editor using the pencil than I was. So it was that moment where I
00:49:31 ◼ ► was like, Oh, I see what they're talking about. I see what Myke was talking about with the pencil
00:49:36 ◼ ► and using it. So I don't, I don't use it to like navigate my iPad interface. I don't use it out of
00:49:41 ◼ ► the app to scroll around and stuff like that. I don't do that. But in this context, in this app,
00:49:46 ◼ ► I found an app that I use that uses the pencil. Um, and, and it was kind of a revelation just to
00:49:53 ◼ ► finally have an app that does something that I want to do because drawing and taking notes by
00:49:58 ◼ ► hand are not things I want to do. That was one interesting thing that you pointed out in your
00:50:03 ◼ ► article, which is something that I would love to see Apple take a crack at, which is like some kind
00:50:07 ◼ ► of handwriting recognition keyboard. Yeah. I got a bunch of emails from people who, um, who said,
00:50:15 ◼ ► Oh, there's this app that you can write in. There's no taking app you can write in and it turns your
00:50:20 ◼ ► handwriting into text. And, um, that's great. But I think in the macro article, I very specifically
00:50:28 ◼ ► said, you know, I don't care about note taking apps. I don't use them. What I, what I'm surprised
00:50:35 ◼ ► by is that Apple hasn't built a handwriting recognition keyboard, you know, to take the
00:50:43 ◼ ► keyboard space. And there's a third party one that I tried. And, um, that's one of the times I
00:50:47 ◼ ► use the Apple pencil actually for 20 minutes. Uh, and it was really bad. Like I'm surprised there
00:50:52 ◼ ► was not a first party, uh, keyboard that basically, if you have an Apple pencil in your hand and the
00:50:59 ◼ ► keyboard slides up, let's say you put your pencil down and instead of it being a keyboard, now
00:51:06 ◼ ► you're just writing out words and it does handwriting recognition and inserts those words
00:51:09 ◼ ► in whatever app you're in as though you were typing. I feel like that would be, uh, really
00:51:15 ◼ ► good for some people who like to hand write. And I'm surprised that Apple hasn't bothered given that
00:51:19 ◼ ► they've got the Newton technology and that they had a million years ago that probably is out of
00:51:23 ◼ ► date and they'd have to rebuild it. And that became ink in Mac OS, uh, which was there for way,
00:51:28 ◼ ► way longer than you would expect. But like, I'm a little surprised that Apple doesn't think that
00:51:33 ◼ ► handwriting might be a way to do text input on the iPad pro for somebody who's using the pencil. And
00:51:38 ◼ ► I wouldn't use it because I, again, I don't want to write things out by hand. Um, and I
00:51:45 ◼ ► appreciate that there are apps that let you do that and it converts it. But I was thinking
00:51:49 ◼ ► more broadly that wouldn't it be interesting if, if they had something that either worked as a
00:51:53 ◼ ► keyboard or that was even maybe more Newton like where if you had a, I mean, really it would still
00:51:57 ◼ ► be kind of keyboard like you've got a blinking text insertion point and you write something on
00:52:01 ◼ ► the screen in words that it would say, Oh, you're writing words. I'm going to put those words at the
00:52:05 ◼ ► text insertion point. Like that would be kind of cool. And I'm, uh, yeah, I'm just, they haven't
00:52:10 ◼ ► done that. And so that's, that's kind of too bad given that they've got this text input device that
00:52:15 ◼ ► has been used for, you know, thousands of years to do that. No, somebody who has used the Apple
00:52:21 ◼ ► pencil for a while, um, as a big fan, I wanted to make some recommendations, Jason, uh, to the
00:52:27 ◼ ► upgradients. There's none of these are for you. Uh, because I was going to say, are these note
00:52:31 ◼ ► taking and drawing apps? Yes, they most definitely are because this, I primarily, I use my Apple
00:52:38 ◼ ► pencil for navigating interface in lieu of using my fingers because it's really comfortable for me.
00:52:45 ◼ ► Um, but so like that's one use stuff like what Jason's doing is another use where there are
00:52:50 ◼ ► a bunch of like professional applications that are integrating the Apple pencil as a secondary
00:52:55 ◼ ► input method to allow for some cool stuff. But the Apple pencil is primarily supposed to and designed
00:53:02 ◼ ► to be used for note taking and creative work. So there's just a small list of applications that I
00:53:09 ◼ ► wanted to read out and I'll put links to them in the show notes. So I use two different note taking
00:53:14 ◼ ► apps, notability and good notes. These are like your general handwriting apps. They have different
00:53:20 ◼ ► like paper types that you can use. You can create your own paper types for some of them. And these
00:53:25 ◼ ► are, these are just really good apps. They have basic like shapes you can draw on highlighters
00:53:29 ◼ ► and different types of pens and stuff like that. Um, that they're slightly different and they both
00:53:34 ◼ ► have slightly different feature sets. If you are super keen on taking notes by hand on your iPad
00:53:40 ◼ ► pro, get them both and try them both is my recommendation because most people I know that
00:53:46 ◼ ► do this, they prefer one or the other. I prefer notability, but I couldn't tell you why I just do.
00:53:51 ◼ ► And so that's just how that is. Um, paper, which is owned by WeTransfer now, which was a surprise
00:54:03 ◼ ► It's bought by WeTransfer. Uh, that is just a fun sketching app. It's, it's got a nice little
00:54:08 ◼ ► design. I've always enjoyed playing around with it. It has simple tools, but done in a really nice
00:54:13 ◼ ► way. Um, it is a kind of low barrier to entry, uh, kind of drawing app, uh, linear by the icon
00:54:20 ◼ ► factory, similar in that way where it's like, it's got a lot of basic features that you'd want,
00:54:25 ◼ ► but they are getting really clever really fast with some other stuff that they're doing like
00:54:30 ◼ ► automatic shape recognition now and stuff like that. I, linear is an app to watch, I think,
00:54:36 ◼ ► because it started off as a very simple drawing app for the iPad pro, but is getting more and
00:54:43 ◼ ► more powerful all the time. So that's a fun one. Um, procreate, I mean, I don't know how to use
00:54:49 ◼ ► procreate, but people like it like, but it's, you know, it is the artist's tool of choice for the
00:54:55 ◼ ► iPad. Um, for a lot of people like it's, it is the one right procreate it's very, very, very powerful
00:55:01 ◼ ► until Photoshop comes along. It's like, it seems to be the thing that illustrators and artists
00:55:06 ◼ ► want to use. There is an app called art set for, which was recommended to me by Tiffany Arment,
00:55:12 ◼ ► who hosts make do on relay FM, which is a creative podcast along with many other great shows. And,
00:55:18 ◼ ► you know, Tiff is a prolific podcaster and that's one of the things that she does is a creativity
00:55:22 ◼ ► podcast. But art set is like, it feels like the most realistic for traditional tools like
00:55:29 ◼ ► watercolor and, and all that kind of stuff, right? So different painting styles and different drawing
00:55:35 ◼ ► styles, and it has tons and tons and tons and tons of options. So this is like a fun one to play
00:55:40 ◼ ► around with where procreate I think is one that people tend to use more to create something that
00:55:46 ◼ ► they can use digitally. And then one of my very, very, very favorite apps is pigment, which is a
00:55:50 ◼ ► coloring book app, which I love pigment. It's so much fun. It's really nice to use. They since I
00:55:57 ◼ ► maybe last spoke about them, they went to a subscription model, which I think is probably
00:56:01 ◼ ► the best idea for them from a business perspective. But now they have a bunch of like Disney content
00:56:06 ◼ ► and stuff. So you can color in the Lion King if you want to. And they have they even have, I think,
00:56:12 ◼ ► a specific Marvel version, which I've played with. So if you want to color in Spider-Man, Jason,
00:56:20 ◼ ► you can now if you want to. So they're really fun. They're just some recommendations to some apps
00:56:25 ◼ ► that that I've used a lot. I'm always willing to hear about any others. So if anybody out there is
00:56:31 ◼ ► using their Apple Pencil and other applications to great effect, I would love to hear about it.
00:56:35 ◼ ► Especially especially if you're using it in an app that supports it in a non traditional way,
00:56:42 ◼ ► I would really like to know about that, you know, something like ferrite, right, which is,
00:56:47 ◼ ► you wouldn't necessarily assume that it would support the Apple Pencil, but it does to great
00:56:51 ◼ ► effect. I would love to hear more about those. But Jason Snow, I'm so happy to hear that you love
00:56:56 ◼ ► your Apple Pencil. I do. I do the combination again, stuff that I could probably have done,
00:57:02 ◼ ► you know, a couple years ago, but I think the combination of the software support being there
00:57:07 ◼ ► where it wasn't when I first tried this and the new hardware like the Apple Pencil, even even I
00:57:13 ◼ ► like appreciate the new hardware in the sense that I think it makes the it makes it a tool that I
00:57:19 ◼ ► might use right like again if it was just the old hardware even if I realized how great this was,
00:57:23 ◼ ► I would suddenly be in a position where I need to keep track of the of the Apple Pencil and make
00:57:27 ◼ ► sure it's charged and all these things and those are barriers that would make me be like forget it,
00:57:31 ◼ ► right? And the new pencil doesn't do that. Today's episode is brought to you in part by our friends
00:57:38 ◼ ► at Pingdom. Pingdom are awesome because they help keep the sites that you love online. They monitor
00:57:44 ◼ ► your site so you don't have to and give you real time feedback so you know exactly what's going on
00:57:48 ◼ ► at all times. Stuff breaks on the internet every single day. They detect around 13 million outages
00:57:54 ◼ ► every month. That is more than 400,000 outages every day. It doesn't matter what size your
00:58:00 ◼ ► website is, whether you're a startup, whether it's your personal blog, whether it's a fortune 500
00:58:04 ◼ ► company, you want to have that website online and available. That's why it's there, right? You put
00:58:10 ◼ ► it online so people could get to it, I would assume. So you want to make sure that they can.
00:58:14 ◼ ► If there's any critical issues, you want to be alerted by them and Pingdom have all of the tools
00:58:18 ◼ ► to make that happen. They let you customize how you're alerted depending on the severity of an
00:58:23 ◼ ► outage and also sending the right notifications to the people that can actually get the problem fixed.
00:58:28 ◼ ► Pingdom will also track and analyze your website's load times so you can see what's affecting the
00:58:33 ◼ ► user experience. I love that we use Pingdom at Relay FM and we get a report every weekend about
00:58:38 ◼ ► the speed of the website over the week. It's really great. You can just have that information
00:58:41 ◼ ► right at your fingertips. If you have a site of any size, you need Pingdom. They have a no-fuss
00:58:46 ◼ ► approach to help you get started. All Pingdom need is the URL that you want to monitor and they'll
00:58:51 ◼ ► take care of the rest. Go to Pingdom.com/relayfm right now to get yourself a 14-day free trial
00:58:57 ◼ ► with no credit card required. Then when you sign up, use the code UPGRADE at checkout to get a
00:59:02 ◼ ► massive 30% off your first invoice. Our thanks again to Pingdom for their support of this show
00:59:06 ◼ ► and Relay FM. It is time for #AskUpgrade, Jason Snow. Oh, Myke, I'm warming up. I'm warming up.
00:59:16 ◼ ► This is very exciting laser news, laser-related news. Okay. Warming up the red and green
00:59:29 ◼ ► interesting defensive properties too. If we're ever invaded by, I don't even know what would
00:59:46 ◼ ► Yeah. Oh, man. Who are we going to call? Our first question comes from Tom this week. Tom says,
00:59:52 ◼ ► "Setting aside pro apps on the iPad, why is there no weathering calculator app included
01:00:03 ◼ ► right? Like we don't know the answer to that. It is still a super strange oversight, but I think
01:00:10 ◼ ► it is a great advantage for third-party apps. Some of my favorites like Peacock and Carrot Weather.
01:00:15 ◼ ► One of the reasons that I use Peacock and Carrot Weather on my iPhone over the built-in ones is
01:00:21 ◼ ► because they're the ones I use on my iPad as well. So, for the sake of applications that I enjoy,
01:00:31 ◼ ► applications and I'm sure that their businesses are helped by the fact that there are some iOS
01:00:37 ◼ ► devices that don't include these applications. Undoubtedly. I do wonder, given what we have just
01:00:42 ◼ ► seen in terms of those marzipan apps coming to the iPad as well as the Mac this year, like stocks,
01:00:49 ◼ ► socks, and voice recorder, that I wonder if part of this transition is going to include
01:01:00 ◼ ► these same apps being on all devices. So I wonder if there will be a marzipan calculator
01:01:14 ◼ ► Oh, and it gets your hands all sticky if you try to use a marzipan calculator. I don't recommend it.
01:01:29 ◼ ► I don't know. I mean, yeah. I don't understand it unless there's something super weird about
01:01:34 ◼ ► patent somebody has for putting weather on a tablet or something. I don't understand why
01:01:40 ◼ ► it's not there. I don't get it. I don't get it. I think they just built those apps for the iPhone
01:01:45 ◼ ► and when the iPad came out, they were like, "Meh." And we've been stuck ever since, just like with
01:01:52 ◼ ► the others, just like with voice recorder and stocks. Why would stocks not be on the iPad?
01:01:58 ◼ ► It's like, well, they built it for the iPhone and they just didn't bother. And so maybe they'll
01:02:02 ◼ ► bother. And then that'll be a sad day for James Thompson and for the carrot people because they
01:02:14 ◼ ► You know that Apple's calculator is never going to have a full featured racing game in it.
01:02:24 ◼ ► features as well. So yeah. In a similar vein, Frank asks, "Do you think that the Shortcuts
01:02:50 ◼ ► But then I thought to myself, "Well, we don't even know if it's worth doing that in 2019."
01:02:57 ◼ ► Right? Because we have no idea what's going to happen over the next couple of years at WWDC.
01:03:02 ◼ ► And it might be that it's not worth Apple building new Mac apps in the old way. So yeah, maybe.
01:03:16 ◼ ► So question one is, "Do we think that Marzipan apps on the Mac are going to be controllable via
01:03:24 ◼ ► Automator or AppleScript?" And the answer is no. No, of course they aren't. Of course they aren't.
01:03:33 ◼ ► which doesn't exist on the Mac." Okay. Automator exists on the Mac and Shortcuts is inspired by
01:03:39 ◼ ► Automator. It is very much an iOS take on Automator. Like Shortcuts, Automator has a lot
01:03:46 ◼ ► of actions that are literally just things that are commanding an app to do something. They're not
01:03:52 ◼ ► cross-app things, right? They're just, "Have Mail do this. Have Safari do this." Or, "I send you
01:04:03 ◼ ► data and you send me back data." So I'm actually kind of optimistic that what we're going to get
01:04:09 ◼ ► ultimately is that Shortcuts will come to the Mac and a lot of the stuff that's in Automator,
01:04:15 ◼ ► a lot of those items will appear in Shortcuts, as will new items that are using the new method
01:04:22 ◼ ► that Shortcuts controls on iOS that will come with Marzipan. Because I think you could actually mix
01:04:29 ◼ ► and match them fairly easily. I don't want to say that it's easy and there wouldn't be an
01:04:33 ◼ ► engineering challenge there, but given that the legacy Mac app stuff for Automator is all these
01:04:39 ◼ ► individual block items, you should be able to have those blocks be available in Shortcuts.
01:04:46 ◼ ► Because what you're doing is you're passing data out and saying, "Hey, do this and then give me
01:04:53 ◼ ► back something." And that's not any different from what Shortcuts does. So I think they could do it.
01:05:00 ◼ ► I also think at that point then Shortcuts on the Mac would have the possibility to do like,
01:05:04 ◼ ► run Shell script and run Apple script or something like that, which would be fascinating too.
01:05:17 ◼ ► Adrian asks, "Given the choice, would you rather get a new iPhone X, so last year's iPhone X,
01:05:28 ◼ ► Okay, why is that? I don't like the big phones. I think the XR is beautiful and it's not as big
01:05:33 ◼ ► as I anticipated, but I prefer the size of the iPhone X. It's that simple. I mean, if you weigh
01:05:40 ◼ ► in the money part of it, if the iPhone X was $999, like the iPhone XS is, maybe I would feel different
01:05:48 ◼ ► about it. But at $899, it would still be $150 more expensive, but it would be the size I wanted.
01:05:56 ◼ ► Yeah, I would probably take the iPhone X, even factoring in the price being more and the tech
01:06:05 ◼ ► being a little bit older, just because of the size issue. But it would be an interesting question.
01:06:12 ◼ ► It is an interesting question. Thank you, Adrian. But I think in the end, I would probably just
01:06:35 ◼ ► No, I get it. I get it. And that's unfortunately, the iPhone X not available. So it's not a question.
01:06:46 ◼ ► David asks, if Apple introduces a low-end Apple TV, what are the chances of going game focused,
01:06:52 ◼ ► maybe with controllers on the high-end model? They're already comparing the iPad to the Xbox
01:06:59 ◼ ► One and their chips are getting better and better. So whilst that was on my recent hiatus,
01:07:09 ◼ ► John Voorhees stepped in for me on remaster with Federico Vittucci and they spoke about gaming on
01:07:16 ◼ ► the iPad Pro and what that is like today. It's a very interesting episode because there was a bunch
01:07:23 ◼ ► of stuff that I learned, which I didn't know about, which I think says a lot about Apple's
01:07:27 ◼ ► current attitude to games. For example, there are really restrictive limits on the sizes
01:07:35 ◼ ► of apps and games. The maximum size you can download from the app store is like four gigabytes.
01:07:42 ◼ ► And then if you want any more, so you want to get more data and get more files or more graphics packs
01:07:49 ◼ ► as some of these games do, you then need to download these as free in-app purchases, which
01:07:54 ◼ ► also have limits on them. So if Apple wanted to make something that was truly graphically impressive
01:08:01 ◼ ► or have this stuff made for their system, all of that stuff needs to change because games are huge
01:08:07 ◼ ► if they're supposed to look good. So this is even more restrictive on tvOS as it stands currently
01:08:13 ◼ ► right now. And this is before you even get into all the pricing and business issues and the
01:08:19 ◼ ► perception shifts that would need to occur because I don't know why a game on the app store
01:08:26 ◼ ► should be free but you download it, but a game on the switch online store can be $50. I don't know
01:08:34 ◼ ► what it is that has broken that in people's brains, but it has. And I cannot ever imagine,
01:08:41 ◼ ► well I cannot imagine in the near to mid future, Apple producing a box that sells $40 software and
01:08:48 ◼ ► nobody and everybody's fine with that. It just doesn't seem to make sense to me, even if it was
01:08:54 ◼ ► the same game. Because I see it a lot, right? Like one way or another, like an iOS game go to the
01:09:01 ◼ ► switch or a Switch game or a console game to go to iOS and the prices are completely different.
01:09:05 ◼ ► There are a bunch of iOS games popping up on the switch now that have been ported over and they tend
01:09:10 ◼ ► to be more expensive and everyone's fine with that. So these are like two massive things from
01:09:16 ◼ ► technical perspectives where it's just people that want to make really deep and beautiful games
01:09:23 ◼ ► struggle with the size constraints put on them. And there are already these business model issues,
01:09:29 ◼ ► let alone the fact that like, I mean, Apple don't even currently make a very good remote control for
01:09:45 ◼ ► These are separate. Console games are popular with a subset of an audience that is, I would argue
01:09:52 ◼ ► actually that Apple is the best at the most important segment of gaming, which is mobile
01:09:59 ◼ ► Yeah, there is no mobile game platform better. I mean, I'm kind of excluding the Switch from this
01:10:05 ◼ ► because it's different. That's different, but. But it's, yeah, I do think it's different. I'm
01:10:10 ◼ ► not saying the Switch is not a mobile gaming. Switching is a game console that is mobile.
01:10:18 ◼ ► it is not your phone. It is not your tablet. It is a game, a dedicated game device. Also a dedicated
01:10:24 ◼ ► game device controlled by Nintendo that is not going to allow lots of, you know, the ad
01:10:31 ◼ ► freemium kind of model like Nintendo not interested in that. Right. So you're not going to be,
01:10:36 ◼ ► they're not going to let you do that. Whereas Apple's like, all right, we're going to do that,
01:10:42 ◼ ► It's been very successful for them. But like, so, you know, the question was what are the chances?
01:10:46 ◼ ► I think the answer is there's no chance. I think the Apple TV at best is going to be viewed as
01:10:51 ◼ ► a way for you to get games that are written for iPhones and iPads on your TV if you want to see
01:10:56 ◼ ► them there. And that's fine, but you know, Apple's focus, if it can have any focus on gaming at all,
01:11:04 ◼ ► will be in mobile gaming in iPhone primarily, and then other platforms secondarily. They're not going
01:11:10 ◼ ► to build a console. They're not going to take on Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo. Not interested.
01:11:15 ◼ ► They've never been interested in gaming. They're interested in gaming only in that it suits them
01:11:20 ◼ ► when they show off their graphics power of their latest processors, or, you know, when it's throwing
01:11:26 ◼ ► off so much money that they have to sort of pay attention to it, but they kind of don't care.
01:11:34 ◼ ► So all these dreams of the Apple TV being a—could Apple really invest in making the Apple TV a
01:11:41 ◼ ► console-like device? Yes, but they won't. And even if they did, I don't think it would be much of a
01:11:46 ◼ ► success because of all of the other challenges. Like, you know, Microsoft spent an enormous amount
01:11:53 ◼ ► of money and lots and lots of time to establish Xbox as a player in the gaming platform wars,
01:11:59 ◼ ► and Apple's never going to do that. So, you know, the Apple TV is an extension of the iPad and the
01:12:04 ◼ ► iPhone, and it's really all about the iPhone, and it's the mobile gaming space. It's just a different
01:12:08 ◼ ► kind of gaming. And if you're expecting Apple to be an Xbox, even though they talked about the
01:12:12 ◼ ► graphics power of the Xbox and all that, like, again, using it to show off the power of their
01:12:17 ◼ ► processors in their thousand-dollar iPad Pro is not the same. If you would like to send in a
01:12:24 ◼ ► question for us to answer on the show, just send in a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade to do that.
01:12:31 ◼ ► Thank you to everybody that has for today's episode. So after this break, we are going to go
01:12:36 ◼ ► to the movies for Myke at the Movies and talk about Miracle on 34th Street. So this episode
01:12:44 ◼ ► is also brought to you by our friends over at Squarespace. Make your next move with Squarespace.
01:12:49 ◼ ► They'll let you easily create a website for your next idea or project with the ability to grab a
01:12:54 ◼ ► unique domain name, take advantage of award-winning templates or more. They are the all-in-one
01:12:59 ◼ ► platform that will let you put your next project online. With Squarespace, there is nothing to
01:13:03 ◼ ► install or patch or upgrade. They cover all of that stuff for you, and they have all of the
01:13:07 ◼ ► functionality that you're going to want. If you want to have a website that has a blog in it,
01:13:11 ◼ ► you can do that. You can also have an online store on that website or a portfolio or a music player
01:13:15 ◼ ► or a map system or anything. They support tons of different methods of writing. So you can write in
01:13:22 ◼ ► Markdown in their blog platform. Like, you just do it all natively in Squarespace. It's super,
01:13:26 ◼ ► super awesome. And they have 24/7 award-winning customer support right there to back everything
01:13:33 ◼ ► up for you. If you need any help, Squarespace are there to help you. I've been a happy Squarespace
01:13:37 ◼ ► user for many, many, many, many years. They are the first place that I think of when I'm starting
01:13:41 ◼ ► a project online because they make it so easy for me as somebody who doesn't know how to build a
01:13:46 ◼ ► website. Squarespace plans start at just $12 a month, but you can sign up for a trial today just
01:13:51 ◼ ► by going to squarespace.com/upgrade. And when you sign up, use the offer code upgrade because this
01:13:57 ◼ ► will get you 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain and show your support for this
01:14:02 ◼ ► show. Once again, that's squarespace.com/upgrade and the code upgrade at checkout to get 10% of
01:14:08 ◼ ► your first purchase. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show. Squarespace,
01:14:28 ◼ ► - You keep wanting to put an article in front of it. It's not the miracle on 34th street.
01:14:48 ◼ ► can't say it. It's so hard for me to say 34th, right? So I'm struggling so hard with that anyway,
01:15:03 ◼ ► - And that's what my brain is telling me to say and I'm already fighting against that. And then
01:15:08 ◼ ► there's no article. I can't. Anyway, what did I know about this movie beforehand? Nothing, really.
01:15:16 ◼ ► I knew that it was a classic, right? I knew it was a classic. I thought it had that scene
01:15:23 ◼ ► where the guy runs down the street screaming at the end, but that's a different movie, right?
01:15:32 ◼ ► - There you go. So that was what I thought. I was waiting for that to happen in this movie.
01:15:43 ◼ ► by accident because that was what was recommended when I did the search on iTunes. It was the first
01:15:49 ◼ ► result. So I bought that one and only found out that there was a difference in version because
01:15:56 ◼ ► somebody tweeted asking whether we were watching the 1994 or 1947. And I was like, well, this is
01:16:01 ◼ ► news to me. So then I went and bought the 1947 version and I watched it in black and white
01:16:19 ◼ ► watched the colorized version if I could have found that as an option, but the black and white
01:16:24 ◼ ► worked perfectly fine for me. I was very happy with it. Like all nicely produced, it was very
01:16:34 ◼ ► good resolution, right? Like it looked really crisp even though it was in black and white.
01:16:41 ◼ ► - Yeah, when I started watching this, it was a standard def copy and now it's high def and
01:16:58 ◼ ► - I think so. The dialogue is really strange in places. The exposition is super weird at times.
01:17:15 ◼ ► What is going on kind of way? As is some of the super strange behavior by some of the people in
01:17:22 ◼ ► this movie that I'll get to in a bit. But I will say the last third loved it. When the court stuff
01:17:29 ◼ ► started happening, loved it. I loved all that. - One of the weird things about this movie is
01:17:37 ◼ ► I always have that moment where I say, "Oh yeah, it's a totally different movie now. We're now in
01:17:41 ◼ ► the courtroom phase of this movie." Because there's a romantic comedy in here. There's this weird
01:17:50 ◼ ► story about human resources at the department store that is going on. - They somehow get to
01:17:58 ◼ ► send people to mental institutions. I'm not really sure how that lines up, but they can do it.
01:18:02 ◼ ► - Yeah. And then there's the courtroom stuff at the end. I like it all, but the courtroom stuff
01:18:08 ◼ ► is amazing. - It felt like a bunch of scenes. It just felt like a bunch of vignettes in places
01:18:13 ◼ ► put together this movie. Have you been watching this movie your whole life, Jason? Has this been
01:18:19 ◼ ► a staple since childhood? - No, this is my wife's favorite Christmas movie. And I didn't see it
01:18:31 ◼ ► like, I just really struggled with it. All of the things that usually bother me about movies,
01:18:42 ◼ ► this and all of them. You know my little things that bother me about believability and just
01:18:48 ◼ ► general strangeness in movies. This movie is full of it. And it's probably because it was made in
01:18:54 ◼ ► 1947. That's probably why. Is this movie funded by Macy's? What is going on with Macy's in this
01:19:06 ◼ ► movie? - Well, I mean, it's set in Macy's, right? And the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade and all of
01:19:12 ◼ ► that. - The focus on Macy's being this wonderful, wonderful, helpful to the world company is super
01:19:18 ◼ ► weird? - Well, then again, Macy's also has the drunk Santa for the Thanksgiving Parade. So there's
01:19:24 ◼ ► a little bit of that. And then there's Gimbels, the department store, which is like the other
01:19:30 ◼ ► department store across the street, which is kind of legendary. You know, the best part about this
01:19:35 ◼ ► movie is that it came out in the summer. - No way. - It did. - Why? I guess I just weren't focusing on
01:19:42 ◼ ► it or whatever. - Good question. Good question. And I don't have an answer for you. Yep. - That
01:19:49 ◼ ► is wild. It came out on the 11th June, 1947. - It did. It did indeed. - It came out in a bunch of
01:19:57 ◼ ► other places around the world later that year, like Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Brazil, France,
01:20:04 ◼ ► like all these countries got it in December. But in the US, it was released in June. - Uh-huh.
01:20:16 ◼ ► you released it. Also, I'll point out, interesting, it won the Academy Award for Best Writing,
01:20:25 ◼ ► Original Story for Best Screenplay. It was nominated for Best Picture. And Edmund Gwen,
01:20:31 ◼ ► who plays Chris Kringle, won the Best Supporting Actor Oscar for this. So it was not one of those
01:20:38 ◼ ► movies that was not recognized at the time. But yes, why was it released in June? Good question.
01:20:44 ◼ ► No good answers. - Chris Kringle, Edmund Gwen, he's the best thing in this movie, in my opinion.
01:20:49 ◼ ► Every time he's in a scene, I enjoyed it. It was a lot of the ancillary stuff around it that was
01:20:55 ◼ ► super weird to me. The whole start part is so strange. Why is this child going to this man's
01:21:02 ◼ ► house? Why does the man take the child to the zoo? It's all like, considering the pet, he'd never met
01:21:10 ◼ ► the mom. It's so weird. I know I'm looking at this with 2019, 2018 eyes, right? So it makes it
01:21:20 ◼ ► extra weird. But it's so weird. I can't help but watch it and be like, "Stranger danger!"
01:21:31 ◼ ► is going on here, and I asked Lauren about this while we were watching it this weekend,
01:21:35 ◼ ► is there's that scene where the, where Maureen O'Hara as Doris Walker meets John Payne as Mr.
01:21:46 ◼ ► Gailey for the first time. And he already has an extensive relationship with her daughter. The man
01:21:52 ◼ ► who lives across the hall, they've hung out. He took her to the zoo and her mother has never met
01:22:00 ◼ ► him. And I think some of that is just the screenplay has just kind of, it's just delighting
01:22:05 ◼ ► over the idea because they just need to get to where they're going. But as Lauren said, her
01:22:10 ◼ ► mother, when she was a little girl in New York City, would ride the subway places on her own as
01:22:17 ◼ ► a six-year-old girl. So it was a different time. But yes, I had those moments where you look at it
01:22:22 ◼ ► now and you're like, "What is going on?" At the same time, I do like the screwball aspect of the
01:22:28 ◼ ► fact that the man across the hall and the daughter are, he's manipulated her. Because that great
01:22:35 ◼ ► scene is where she's like, "Oh, our turkey's really big. You should have Mr. Gailey over for
01:22:40 ◼ ► Thanksgiving dinner." And she's like, "No, no, I couldn't." He says, "Well, I guess I could be
01:22:44 ◼ ► available, but not if it would be too much trouble." And she's like, "No, I insist." And then
01:22:48 ◼ ► the daughter immediately says, "Did I do a good job, Mr. Gailey? Is that what you wanted me to
01:22:53 ◼ ► say?" And it's like, "Oh, you've been revealed." - He says to her, "I heard that if you want to
01:23:00 ◼ ► meet a mother, you've got to get to know the child or something." And it's like, "Okay."
01:23:04 ◼ ► I'm like, "What is going on?" - That's definitely the romance part of the plot is a little bit
01:23:14 ◼ ► weird. In those scenes, I'm much more focused on a couple of things. I'm much more focused on Edmond
01:23:19 ◼ ► Gwynn, who, like I said, won the Oscar. I think he's great. I think he's like the definitive movie
01:23:25 ◼ ► Santa Claus. He's got his delightful English. He's got his delightful accent. He is Santa Claus.
01:23:31 ◼ ► And just like, "Yes, of course I am." He's got, "I'll tell you who the first president was, and
01:23:37 ◼ ► I'll touch my nose, and I can do all the tests and all of that." I like that part of it. And I also
01:23:42 ◼ ► am fascinated by the fact that Doris Walker, her daughter is precocious, but also has been taught
01:23:47 ◼ ► to not believe in anything that is not hard evidence. And it's not my favorite part of the
01:23:53 ◼ ► movie that the end result is, "Oh, that was just my silly common sense." Believe whatever crazy
01:23:58 ◼ ► stuff you like at the end. Because I'm like, "No, I don't actually agree with that." But I do enjoy
01:24:03 ◼ ► all the fact that she doesn't believe in Santa Claus, and she gets very confused when she pulls
01:24:08 ◼ ► his beard. And he's not a fraud. Santa, like all the other Santas who sit on Thrones of Lies,
01:24:14 ◼ ► that's a reference to Elf. You've seen Elf, right? - Yes. We actually watched Elf this weekend.
01:24:21 ◼ ► - That's also a great movie. Anyway, yeah. So the pursuing of Doris by Mr. Gailey is not my
01:24:30 ◼ ► favorite part of the movie. It's kind of weird. But I do like the daughter stuff, and I love
01:24:40 ◼ ► "Guy's gotta keep warm somehow!" The totally drunk Santa on the Macy's parade float. And they're like,
01:24:47 ◼ ► "We gotta get him out of here." But who are we gonna get as Santa Claus? And guess what? You're
01:24:51 ◼ ► gonna get the real Santa Claus as Santa Claus. He's ready. He's gonna step right in, and he's
01:24:56 ◼ ► gonna fix your customer service issues at Macy's. That's another thing I love about this movie,
01:25:02 ◼ ► is that it makes the point that the... Because the Macy's people are like, "Here's a list of
01:25:11 ◼ ► recommend one of these items." And Chris Kringle is like, "No, that's terrible." And he just
01:25:18 ◼ ► immediately says, "Oh, you can go across the street to Gimbel's and get that. Or you can go
01:25:24 ◼ ► down to this other obscure... I'd stay on top of the toy market," he says, because of course,
01:25:28 ◼ ► he's Santa Claus. And Macy's learns that good customer service is sometimes helping your
01:25:33 ◼ ► customer find a product somewhere else. And it's revolutionary. And then their competition
01:25:38 ◼ ► does it, and they spread it to their other stores. And I like that part of it, because I think that's
01:25:43 ◼ ► a good bit of real world recommendation. The best thing to do is to help your customer,
01:25:51 ◼ ► even if... Rather than doing a hard sell and trying to sell them something they don't want.
01:25:57 ◼ ► - It is this weird obsession with Macy's. It's like, what is Macy's relationship to this movie?
01:26:08 ◼ ► they funded it or anything, but I do think there was a... Because they let them shoot at the parade
01:26:12 ◼ ► and all of that. I think that was all part of it. And the idea that Macy's, in New York at least,
01:26:17 ◼ ► is part of this holiday tradition, I think that was part of it. Elf is set at Gimbel's,
01:26:21 ◼ ► which no longer exists, but was prominently featured in Miracle on 34th Street, which is why
01:26:28 ◼ ► Elf is set at Gimbel's. And that let them set it at a department store everybody knows without it
01:26:49 ◼ ► - But came from the North Pole, which is the opposite. Yeah, okay. That's fun. That's a lot
01:26:57 ◼ ► of fun. Obviously, because I don't really know this movie enough yet, even though I've seen it
01:27:03 ◼ ► once where I like to start making those... I bet now if I watched Elf again, I would see it more
01:27:18 ◼ ► Gringo's just like, he just clunks that guy. - I guess that's the lesson that violence never
01:27:23 ◼ ► solves anything, because that is the fact that he whacks the guy. I mean, to be honest, that guy is
01:27:34 ◼ ► - But you should not whack Sawyer on the head with your cane or umbrella or whatever. Don't do it.
01:27:38 ◼ ► Violence never solves anything, and that becomes the wedge that allows Mr. Sawyer to get him
01:27:43 ◼ ► committed at one point for being a crazy person. - Yeah, it may not have been the right option,
01:27:50 ◼ ► and it was just surprising to me that it didn't really take a lot. He kind of just got to the
01:27:55 ◼ ► point where it was like, "I don't want to argue with you anymore, so I'm going to hit you on the
01:27:57 ◼ ► noggin." - "I'm going to whack you on the head." Santa, no! - Please, Santa, stop beating that man
01:28:04 ◼ ► up. - Yeah, that awful, awful man. - And then it's just like, there's all these funny little things,
01:28:10 ◼ ► like the judge, the honest judge. Why is he going to be so honest? - So, the courtroom, right? So,
01:28:18 ◼ ► the courtroom is great. There's that scene that I really love that's at the Postal Service where
01:28:22 ◼ ► Jack Albertson is like, "Hey, I got an idea. We got this mail for Santa. What if we took it to
01:28:35 ◼ ► She lives across the hallway from the lawyer, right? Like, this is my, like, I'm sorry I do
01:28:46 ◼ ► this. I can't help it. - Is that the letter? Do they mail? I mean, it's just all the mail is going
01:28:50 ◼ ► to Santa. - No, but like, the first letter is written by the kids, Susan. - So, they put it in
01:28:58 ◼ ► the mail. You know, they put it in the mail. - They mailed it. - That's the thing you do. You mail
01:29:01 ◼ ► your letter to Santa. Isn't it fun? And then it goes to Santa Claus, Indiana. - The kid's not there,
01:29:06 ◼ ► right? The kid's not there. And it's mailed, like, the address is the courthouse. - Ah,
01:29:12 ◼ ► right. Interesting. Well, it's all part of the plan. - Sure. - It's all part of Fred's plan. - Ah,
01:29:16 ◼ ► they were all in it the whole time. - I have never even considered that. It's totally irrelevant.
01:29:20 ◼ ► The whole idea is just that they get this idea. Also, that scene in the post office is fascinating
01:29:25 ◼ ► because Jack Albertson is the guy who has the idea. He's really great. The other guy is Lou,
01:29:30 ◼ ► and he is, like, the worst actor in the movie, where he's like, "I just forget about it." He's
01:29:35 ◼ ► super, like, stylized. Very bad. But Jack Albertson's good. And he's like, "Ah, we'll send
01:29:40 ◼ ► him all down to the courthouse. I got a great idea." But the court stuff itself, okay, so,
01:29:45 ◼ ► the judge is great. - Hilarious. He's so funny. - The district attorney is great. So the judge
01:29:50 ◼ ► is worried that if he rules against Santa, they're gonna not vote for him. He talks to my favorite
01:29:57 ◼ ► character in the movie, other than, I guess, Edmund Gwynn, which is William Frawley, who was
01:30:01 ◼ ► Fred Mertz in I Love Lucy. He is the political fixer. - He's so good. - He spends most of his
01:30:07 ◼ ► time out in the court with his unlit cigar, gesturing it at the judge. And at one point,
01:30:13 ◼ ► when they're like, "Your honor, you need to rule on whether he's Santa Claus or not." And Fred Mertz,
01:30:18 ◼ ► sorry, William Frawley, is, like, pointing at the chambers, like, "Get out of here, get out of here,
01:30:23 ◼ ► you gotta get out of here. We gotta talk about this." And it's like you're gonna make a career
01:30:27 ◼ ► ending move if you tell people that, 'cause it's gonna be in the papers, that you're the judge who
01:30:31 ◼ ► said Santa Claus wasn't real, and you're gonna make everybody sad. - And I love the story that
01:30:35 ◼ ► he tells. It's like, "Then the kids won't won their toys anymore, which is gonna upset the
01:30:40 ◼ ► department stores. You should've said the department stores, you're gonna upset the toy
01:30:42 ◼ ► makers. The toy makers got the unions. You want those unions to come down?" And you're just like,
01:30:46 ◼ ► "Whoa, calm down!" - Yeah, oh no, the whole world would be destroyed if you say that this thing is
01:30:50 ◼ ► not true. He envisions also, 'cause there are lots of wacky newspaper, spinning newspaper things
01:30:55 ◼ ► here, my favorite of which, well, okay, my favorite of which is the headline that's all the Ks,
01:31:01 ◼ ► that is just ridiculous, "Chris Kringle Crazy, Court Case Coming, Calamity Crykitties." But
01:31:08 ◼ ► the second best one is the judge imagines what the story will be if he rules against Santa Claus.
01:31:13 ◼ ► And if you pause it and read that story, it's like, "Horrible judge made all children around
01:31:18 ◼ ► the world sad today by deciding that Santa doesn't exist. This judge is terrible." And it's this
01:31:24 ◼ ► amazing story that is written about him. So he's like, "Okay, I can't do this." So it's like,
01:31:29 ◼ ► everybody's playing along. The district attorney doesn't wanna be particularly brutal with this,
01:31:34 ◼ ► because he doesn't wanna be mean to the nice old man, nice crazy old man. - Yeah, I like that part,
01:31:39 ◼ ► 'cause that would have been so easy for them to just paint him as the bad guy, 'cause he's
01:31:46 ◼ ► playing the bad guy in the room, but then they have that moment at home, right, where he's like,
01:31:50 ◼ ► "Oh, I don't want to do this, but what choice do I have now?" - "I should've married a plumber."
01:31:56 ◼ ► And he's like, "Well, depending on how this goes, maybe you might've." And the kids don't
01:32:01 ◼ ► wanna talk to him, 'cause they're like, "You're prosecuting Santa." And so when he gets up there,
01:32:04 ◼ ► he's like, "Are you Santa?" And he says, "Yes, I am." He's like, "We have no further questions.
01:32:11 ◼ ► The state rests." He doesn't wanna push it. He's like, "This should be enough. He thinks he's Santa.
01:32:18 ◼ ► that just opens the door for the shenanigans that Mr. Gailey does, and that the judge has to deal
01:32:28 ◼ ► yes, I think you can. I think it is funny that the district attorney is not aware and has not been
01:32:39 ◼ ► to appear in his own case. - Maybe bring up a breakfast, maybe. - But it does lead to a wonderful
01:32:45 ◼ ► double-take where he's like, "What?" And she's like, "I got the subpoena right here." And then
01:32:49 ◼ ► Mr. Gailey lifts up Tommy Mara, the junior, and puts him in the little chair and says, "Do you
01:32:56 ◼ ► believe in Santa Claus? Does your dad believe in Santa Claus?" He's like, "Oh, yes, don't you,
01:33:00 ◼ ► Daddy?" And he's like, "Uh, yeah, okay." And so all the adults are all trying to keep the
01:33:06 ◼ ► myth of Santa Claus alive. Nobody wants to say that Santa Claus doesn't exist, which does
01:33:12 ◼ ► ultimately lead to the state of New York and the federal government endorsing this man as the real
01:33:17 ◼ ► Santa Claus, which is just wonderful and absurd. - The way that it unfolds is genuinely very clever.
01:33:23 ◼ ► Like, I really enjoyed the reveal of the three pieces of mail, and it's like, "Oh, that's not
01:33:29 ◼ ► nearly enough." It's like, "Ha ha ha!" - It's like, "Bring it in, boys!" I like how they—and this
01:33:34 ◼ ► is some theatrics that's great—they could just put the mail bags on the judge's desk, because the
01:33:37 ◼ ► judge is like, "Put them right here on my desk." But they don't. They empty the individual letters
01:33:43 ◼ ► out of the bags all over his desk, so he's completely covered in mail. - When I saw that,
01:33:47 ◼ ► I felt bad for the prop department. - Yeah, but I like—when I see it, I imagine that there's a
01:33:53 ◼ ► conversation that happens out in the hallway where Mr. Gailey says, "Okay, now here's what you're
01:33:56 ◼ ► gonna do. When the judge says to bring them in, don't just put the bags up there. Empty the bags
01:34:02 ◼ ► all over the judge, because that's what we want is just a flood of mail." And they're like, "All
01:34:08 ◼ ► right, whatever you want, whatever you say, Mr. Gailey." He's like, "Good, good, boys, good." And
01:34:12 ◼ ► then he goes back inside, and then he says, "Ah, bring them in, boys!" And they cover the judge
01:34:16 ◼ ► with mail. - What I also love is that the judge just rules so smartly, right? It's like, "Well,
01:34:23 ◼ ► the US government says this guy sent a 'so must be.'" - Cut to William Frawley in the audience,
01:34:29 ◼ ► who goes—who gives that nod, like, "Ah, see? You nailed—yeah, yeah, now you're getting elected
01:34:35 ◼ ► for sure, buddy." - "The DA, he's a Republican!" - Oh, that is maybe my favorite line in the movie,
01:34:43 ◼ ► is, "The only people who are gonna vote for you in the next election are you and the DA out there."
01:34:52 ◼ ► "Nobody will vote for me. I am going to be ruined." - There's a couple of really strange jokes in this
01:34:57 ◼ ► movie that I figure were really funny at the time, but you have to know what it is. And they're like,
01:35:07 ◼ ► but he owns a restaurant. I don't remember his name." It's like, that's obviously a joke at
01:35:12 ◼ ► someone, but I have no idea. - Yeah, there was a real guy who thought that, but yeah, obviously
01:35:19 ◼ ► that's gonna be a pop culture reference that comes out. No, I think the idea—maybe the most
01:35:23 ◼ ► delightful thing in here is that this is a movie that knows that people view New Yorkers as cynical
01:35:27 ◼ ► people. So, like, Doris is like, "Don't believe in Santa Claus, don't even tell my kid that Santa
01:35:33 ◼ ► Claus is real when she's a kid. We're just gonna tell her that it's made up." There's the William
01:35:38 ◼ ► Frawley and the Judge who are like, "It's all political shenanigans that are happening."
01:35:42 ◼ ► Saying that Santa is real is all just part of their plot to get him re-elected as the judge.
01:35:49 ◼ ► So it lays all that in there, and then yet what comes out of it is that he has declared Santa
01:35:56 ◼ ► Claus, which he is. It also has that great ending where Susan is sad because she hasn't gotten her
01:36:04 ◼ ► dream house that she wants for her and her mom, for them to move out into the suburbs and into a
01:36:09 ◼ ► dream house. And it ends with—on their way back from the old folks' home, Chris Kringle tells them
01:36:14 ◼ ► which way to go to get from Long Island back into the city, which happens to take them right past
01:36:18 ◼ ► the house that's for sale. And Susan's very excited and they run in. It's exactly how she imagined.
01:36:23 ◼ ► And she's like, "I'm gonna go see if there's a swing. There is! There is a swing!" All that.
01:36:28 ◼ ► And that's all like, "Oh, Chris Kringle set this whole thing up." But then his cane is in the
01:36:32 ◼ ► quarter and that moment of like, the very last thing in the movie is like, "He's not really
01:36:36 ◼ ► Santa. Or is he?" And that's the end of the movie. I really like the line. I really like the line
01:36:41 ◼ ► where, you know, he's like, uh, Gailey's talking about like, "Oh, I must be a really great lawyer,
01:36:49 ◼ ► like this wonderful thing that I did." And then it moves on a little bit. And then he's like,
01:36:54 ◼ ► "Maybe it wasn't so wonderful after all." Right? Like, "I didn't convince everyone that some old
01:36:59 ◼ ► dude was Santa. He is Santa." It's very good. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's good. And that's the last
01:37:04 ◼ ► line of the movie. It's pretty great. Yeah. It's, it's, and again, at that point, their relationship
01:37:08 ◼ ► moves very quickly too, where the romantic comedy plot where they're like, they're just colleagues.
01:37:13 ◼ ► And then before you know it, they're like, have been together for a long time. It's like,
01:37:17 ◼ ► how is that possible? The time doesn't, it's like, just go with it. Right. It doesn't make sense.
01:37:22 ◼ ► Just go back to the courtroom. We'll just spend more time in the courtroom. Yeah. So it is,
01:37:26 ◼ ► it is weird and absurd and I love it. It's great. The last half an hour, I genuinely loved it. Like,
01:37:32 ◼ ► I loved it. It was brilliant. There was like a line, I wish I remember what line it was,
01:37:49 ◼ ► movie, you have gotten me. Like, I am, I'm all about this. But like, the first part is,
01:37:57 ◼ ► it felt a little disjointed to me up until that point. I wonder if this movie would have,
01:38:02 ◼ ► I mean, it's a classic, so it doesn't matter, but maybe the title should have been The Case Against
01:38:07 ◼ ► Santa Claus or something like that. Yeah. Just to highlight the fact that it ends up in a courtroom.
01:38:17 ◼ ► It's basically the same, yeah. So there you go. I would say, like, basically, I was worried that I
01:38:24 ◼ ► was going to come to this episode and be like, "Hated this movie." Bah humbug. Yeah, but that
01:38:28 ◼ ► last, that was the last 30 minutes. Gonna be a screech, gonna be a cringe. That was just good
01:38:31 ◼ ► stuff. I would say revisit, some holiday in the future, revisit it and you may find, you may find
01:38:37 ◼ ► yourself appreciating the early stuff more. I expect I will. I have appreciated it more as I've
01:38:41 ◼ ► gone along because I get to, again, I kind of put aside some of the weirder details and I end up kind
01:38:46 ◼ ► of being delighted by Edmund Gwen's performance and Mr. Gailey manipulating the little kid played
01:38:52 ◼ ► by future movie star Natalie Wood to be, to like get him to Thanksgiving dinner and some of the
01:38:59 ◼ ► weird stuff at Macy's and how they, you know, again, echoes of Elf, right? Which is no, this
01:39:04 ◼ ► is how we do it at Macy's and Santa being like, "I'm not doing it that way," which is very much
01:39:10 ◼ ► the same thing that we see in Elf. There's a mailroom scene in Elf too that always, I always
01:39:14 ◼ ► think is a reference to the post office scene in Miracle on 34th Street. Yeah. I expect that upon
01:39:21 ◼ ► further what like rewatches of this movie, I would, I would come to it differently. Like it was
01:39:27 ◼ ► too weird to me. I'm like, I didn't understand what was going on and it was all very strange.
01:39:33 ◼ ► But now I know kind of the whole arc of the movie, I think I would find it less weird, right? Like
01:39:39 ◼ ► if I've watched those same parts again. But like the initial shock of like, "Why is this child
01:39:45 ◼ ► hanging out at this dude's house?" It's like, it was very, it was very perplexing to me.
01:39:56 ◼ ► What more could you want? It turns out that if you leave your whiskers in the cold, they'll grow more.
01:40:00 ◼ ► Helps them grow. That's what Santa says. So I got to believe. Oh, there's, that's actually a moment
01:40:07 ◼ ► that I really like where you're trying to break the, break the illusion and it fails where he
01:40:14 ◼ ► says, "Oh, well, at the Old Folks' Home, we're going to do a thing on Christmas day. You could
01:40:17 ◼ ► come, you could come over and see us for that." Which they do. It's like, great, we'll do that.
01:40:25 ◼ ► we're having dinner at our house. You could come over for that." And he says, "I'm afraid I'm busy."
01:40:30 ◼ ► And she's like, "Oh, right. Because you're Santa Claus, you're busy on Christmas Eve." Right? And
01:40:36 ◼ ► it's that moment where everybody's like, "Right. Right. Don't invite Santa over on Christmas Eve
01:40:41 ◼ ► if he's the real Santa." I feel I was done talking about this, but I have more I want to ask you now.
01:40:45 ◼ ► Okay. So here's the thing. What is Santa doing? Why is he doing all of this? Why is he working
01:40:57 ◼ ► is he Santa? And if he is, why is he doing this? And I would say, it may be that he's magical,
01:41:03 ◼ ► just could be. And that this is a place where he has chosen to spend some of his, in order to
01:41:10 ◼ ► solve people's problems and spread holiday cheer in New York City this year. This is what he's
01:41:15 ◼ ► done. He's solving the problem of the drunken Santa at the Macy's parade. And then from there,
01:41:20 ◼ ► that leads him into this whole other succession of things. Or maybe Santa is a real person who
01:41:27 ◼ ► lives at an old folks' home and that just happens to be where he lives, but then he does his magical
01:41:32 ◼ ► thing. Who knows? That's the great mystery of it is, if he is Santa, what does that mean? And
01:41:37 ◼ ► there's no answer for that. Like, because maybe this is just what Santa does. He goes around the
01:41:44 ◼ ► world when it's not Christmas and just like helps people out. Right. You know, that's his other job.
01:41:52 ◼ ► Because what else is he doing? We know from other movies, the elves are making the toys, Santa just
01:41:58 ◼ ► does the delivery, you know, but then he only needs to do that one night a year. So he's got
01:42:09 ◼ ► If you'd like to find our show notes for this week, relay.fm/upgrades/224. Again, hashtag Snell
01:42:16 ◼ ► Talk and hashtag Ask Upgrade for your questions, but not for the next couple of weeks because we
01:42:21 ◼ ► have two very special episodes to round out 2018. So we have a holiday spectacular next week and then
01:42:29 ◼ ► the upgrade-ies the week after. So this will be the last time we remind you to vote in the upgrade-ies
01:42:36 ◼ ► and the vote will close on the 24th of December. So you have a week left. So this is your last
01:42:43 ◼ ► warning for the upgrade-ies. Please, please, please enjoy the holiday special. We're really
01:42:50 ◼ ► happy with it. I think that you're going to have a great time listening to that. It's a fun trip,
01:42:56 ◼ ► I think, that we all take together and you'll be able to enjoy. And then we'll be back now on New
01:43:03 ◼ ► Year's Eve for quite the spectacular, which is the fifth annual upgrade-ies. My excitement level,
01:43:12 ◼ ► Jason Snell, very high. Yeah, I can tell. It's hard to even contain it. Very high. I've already
01:43:20 ◼ ► started making my picks, you know, my own nominations. That's on my list for this week as
01:43:24 ◼ ► I gotta do my own choices for the upgrade-ies. It takes time to get it all set. It does. Gotta do some work.
01:43:30 ◼ ► But there are many categories that need your input. So if you were, you know, so you don't want to be
01:43:35 ◼ ► that person who's listening to the upgrade-ies and you're like, no, that my favorite podcast didn't win.
01:43:41 ◼ ► You know, play your part. Vote. There's a link in the show notes. You can answer all the categories.
01:43:46 ◼ ► You can answer some of the categories. It's totally up to you. You can find us both online.
01:43:50 ◼ ► Jason is @jsnell, J S N E double L on Twitter. I am @imike, I M Y K E. You can go to SixColors.com
01:43:58 ◼ ► and TheIncomparable.com for more of Jason's work. And we both host many shows here at Relay FM.
01:44:03 ◼ ► Go to relay.fm/shows and I'm sure you'll be able to pick out something new, especially with the holidays
01:44:08 ◼ ► coming up. You got some travel going on? Pick up a new Relay FM show to listen to. You might find
01:44:13 ◼ ► something new for yourself while you're making all of your holiday trips over the next few weeks.