00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 238, and today's show is brought to you by Text Expander from Smile,
00:00:16 ◼ ► Luna Display, Bombass, and Simple Contact. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.
00:00:31 ◼ ► It doesn't get... Well, the September event is a little bit bigger, but this one has a lot of information which we're gonna do our best.
00:00:37 ◼ ► I mean, the sort of genre of the type of show that it is doesn't get any bigger, but yeah, you're right, you're right.
00:00:46 ◼ ► We don't even have time for Snell Talk this week because we must start with our draft results. Draft results.
00:00:55 ◼ ► So in case you didn't hear on our last episode, which by the way, I was really proud of the way our last episode came out,
00:01:02 ◼ ► and I hope that we have some new upgrade-ians out there in the audience who may have come from last week's episode.
00:01:08 ◼ ► But if you did miss it, then we did a draft in which we tried to pick what we thought was gonna happen during the event.
00:01:15 ◼ ► And I've scored it, you have scored it. I think it's pretty clear-cut that you took this one.
00:01:26 ◼ ► So the video streaming service, neither of us got the name. You thought Apple TV, I thought Apple Video. You were close.
00:01:33 ◼ ► Yeah, I left this unscored because I thought that if it was a very, very, very close thing, I would make an argument that, you know,
00:01:54 ◼ ► Then you pick the four following things. News launches by the end of April. You get a point.
00:02:00 ◼ ► Apple will offer subscriptions to other video services. You get a point. Video game service unveiled. You get a point.
00:02:06 ◼ ► Video service costs more than $10 a month. Again, we'll come back to that in a minute because we don't know.
00:02:15 ◼ ► Apple to have video content that they did not make available for free to subscribers. Again, we just don't know.
00:02:21 ◼ ► But we didn't get that information today. Video service launches in the US only. That was not true.
00:02:31 ◼ ► Then I think, personally, we should give a round of applause to each other for the full point-scoring celebrity round.
00:02:41 ◼ ► All the great celebrities. Oprah, Spielberg, Sara Barry Alice, and Reese the Littlest Spoon, J.J. Abrams,
00:02:55 ◼ ► I would have gone with Big Bird anyway because it's like the only real one that I know.
00:02:58 ◼ ► Fine, fine, yes. But you get that. You get that. You know, we, it turns out we could have done more rounds of that
00:03:02 ◼ ► because there were lots of celebrities on stage, but we got, we got it. We got all of them.
00:03:07 ◼ ► I would say, though, we applied the same thinking to the trailers round and that ended up also doing a pretty decent job.
00:03:26 ◼ ► Not only the moon landing, but there was like a guy looking at a newspaper that said that, that the Russians landed on the moon,
00:03:40 ◼ ► Yeah, that was like, that was like an image. I mean, I was kind of like willing to get that one, but it was, it was less than,
00:03:47 ◼ ► Yeah, I almost suggested that we not score the trailer round because none of these individual pieces of content got it their own trailer.
00:03:55 ◼ ► They were just in the sizzle reel, but we could also score it. I don't think it changes the overall outcome.
00:03:59 ◼ ► We did, we did say that we'd, but anyway, so I know that the Morning Show drama was in there.
00:04:03 ◼ ► And again, unfortunately, Little America could have been featured, but it just couldn't be identified.
00:04:07 ◼ ► I am certain that Little America is in there. There is a picture of a girl wearing a hijab riding her bike down the street.
00:04:21 ◼ ► Could be, but I just, I would, I would give you that one. And there's no Oprah content because, uh, there isn't any.
00:04:29 ◼ ► Uh, the tiebreaker question, um, didn't long leave a white, no, I thought they were black shoes. They look black to me.
00:04:35 ◼ ► Well, they might have been. We might need closer, um, analysis from our shoe correspondent.
00:04:40 ◼ ► But it was, it was a dark gray or black sneaker with a big white sole all the way around.
00:04:48 ◼ ► And I picked white, but you, you know, and you picked dark gray. So I think I would probably go with you in terms of the tiebreaker.
00:04:55 ◼ ► Although it's as close to a tie as you could possibly get on that, but it doesn't matter because I won.
00:05:02 ◼ ► One of those classic situations in the draft for me where I bet heavy on a thing that we all thought was going to happen, but just didn't come true.
00:05:11 ◼ ► So 9-6 wasn't too bad. I thought for a while it was going to be real bad, but then the celebrity round, uh, paid off for me. So I've got some points in there.
00:05:26 ◼ ► Should we just call it right there? This is the most important thing of the episode. Oh, no, it isn't. We're actually going to go...
00:05:31 ◼ ► ...straight into talking about this stuff. Um, I've, I've actually ordered this stuff, I think, in a non-chronological order because I think it would be more interesting to talk about this way.
00:05:46 ◼ ► The Apple TV app has been completely redesigned, uh, is what they said. It looks very different. There's definitely some different focus in different areas.
00:05:55 ◼ ► Um, a lot of the features that we're used to are still there. You know, they kind of pitched them as if they were new, but they weren't. So, like, iTunes content's there.
00:06:07 ◼ ► Uh, but were you surprised about the amount of focus the TV app itself got, including, clearly, some overhaul?
00:06:15 ◼ ► I'm not. Um, this is a big part of the strategy here, right? If they're going to roll out a new service and these new channels, which we've been saying are, like, we'll call them channels because they're like Amazon Prime channels. They literally are calling them channels.
00:06:32 ◼ ► There you go. That's what it is, because they're rebuilding the cable bundle inside the TV app, basically. Um, I'm not surprised because you have, there's work to be done, right? The TV app isn't great.
00:06:41 ◼ ► And let's not forget, the TV app comes from the era where the future of TV was apps. And as we learned today, the future of TV is channels inside the Apple TV app, which is a very different take on this.
00:06:53 ◼ ► And so while it's going to continue to have, like, external apps show data inside the TV app, like, like some apps do now, like Hulu and Amazon, it's also going to have this scenario where they will sell you a service and it shows up inside the app kind of natively as if it's part of Apple's own stuff.
00:07:16 ◼ ► And then they're also rolling in more of the iTunes content because they do, and this has been clear unofficially for the last year or two at least, that this is, the TV app is this big bag that holds all video content for Apple going forward.
00:07:31 ◼ ► And so, yeah, they got to redesign it because, and it looked good. But I tried to say when I was live tweeting this, I tried to say it looks good in the demo because of course it does.
00:07:43 ◼ ► And it looks like they've addressed some of the issues. At the same time, I did get the sense at one point, like, they were scrolling endlessly down a page.
00:07:53 ◼ ► It's like, oh, look, you've just stumbled upon a new way to have the fundamental issue of the TV app, which is just infinite scrolling, which is not nice to use on that remote.
00:08:02 ◼ ► I mean, Netflix does this too. The amount of content in any of these things that's cataloging all the video services is difficult.
00:08:09 ◼ ► But I think Apple's vision here is that basically if you're on, any show but Netflix is going to all roll kind of into this TV app, whether it's from Apple or from one of these other providers.
00:08:20 ◼ ► And, you know, that's what they're going with. But the truth will be when we actually try to use it because it could be a mess depending on what's in there and what's not.
00:08:28 ◼ ► And some of that has to do, like, they were demoing an ideal situation where I think the woman who was doing the demo said something about like, oh, I'm on Charter Cable.
00:08:37 ◼ ► So I have this thing. It's like, well, yes, that's a best case scenario while I'm on Xfinity personally.
00:08:42 ◼ ► And although they've got a really great iOS app, they won't let it on Apple TV because apparently that's a deal they want to extract something from Apple in order to do.
00:08:51 ◼ ► I don't even know. And so, you know, I don't have the best case scenario and lots of people won't have the best case scenario.
00:08:59 ◼ ► I actually think you've stumbled upon what I actually think that the introduction of Apple TV channels was the weakest part of this presentation.
00:09:13 ◼ ► In that you can pay Apple to provide you with content from other providers, content like companies like HBO, CBS, All Access and Showtime.
00:09:31 ◼ ► They were talking about the ability to offer this stuff outside of the US at some point, but they didn't really give any information on what that's going to look like.
00:09:45 ◼ ► But a lot of the talk again, and this is the thing that me and you've been talking about for a while, where a lot of the reporting on the rumors of this was like the Apple's about to do this amazing thing here.
00:09:55 ◼ ► But we have been talking, as many listeners of this show will know, for upstream over months and months in the past.
00:10:06 ◼ ► Like it kind of met what we thought, which was they're not going to have, at least they're not showing right now, this heavily discount.
00:10:15 ◼ ► We're not seeing any of that. We're not seeing some way to put your own package together.
00:10:22 ◼ ► It's Amazon channels, but within Apple's interface instead, which is not the worst thing in the world.
00:10:27 ◼ ► I think the big difference in this is that Apple, because they did offer that API, what, two years ago for the TV app, where they wanted, back when the future of TV was apps,
00:10:40 ◼ ► they built this API so that if you've got an app, you can share your watch data with Apple, and it'll become visible in the TV app.
00:10:46 ◼ ► And then it will basically go out to that app if it needs to jump to the episode or start playing or whatever.
00:10:54 ◼ ► And what that gets Apple is, as they showed quite prominently in a lot of the slides, things like Amazon Prime Video show up in the TV app, even though Prime Video is not a channel inside Apple.
00:11:11 ◼ ► But it doesn't matter if you've got stuff in Prime Video because they're using the API and they are syncing with the TV API on Apple's platforms.
00:11:24 ◼ ► So that's weird in the sense that there are going to be two ways you could see something in the TV app, from an external app or not.
00:11:30 ◼ ► But I think the bigger issue is that it also means Netflix has opted entirely out, and that exacerbates that situation even more.
00:11:43 ◼ ► Because now there's even more content in, and Netflix is really out because it's still all the way out.
00:11:50 ◼ ► Because they would be, all of their shows would be mixed in with everybody else's shows, and the recommendation engine would be for all sorts of different shows on any of the networks you subscribe to.
00:12:04 ◼ ► But I think that the Netflix problem, it exacerbates the issue that I find, which is if you're used to going away from the TV app for some of your content, would you not just keep going out of the TV app for all of your content?
00:12:27 ◼ ► I never use the TV app for Prime because I'm using, you know, like I never think to do that.
00:12:39 ◼ ► Because Prime channels is really convenient because it's all in one, it's in the Prime app.
00:12:45 ◼ ► So doing Apple TV channels similarly, if I've got the, you know, a whole bunch of stuff amalgamated together in one place so that I know I only need to check.
00:13:01 ◼ ► I don't need to switch to other apps because the TV app and Netflix are the only two that really contain pretty much everything that I've got.
00:13:20 ◼ ► I suspect they have more or less, I mean, by launch time, will they have more or less the same partnerships that Amazon has?
00:13:27 ◼ ► I imagine they will resell everything that isn't either a giant of streaming or is a direct competition to Apple.
00:13:39 ◼ ► And if I were, again, if I were Netflix, I'd probably do exactly what Netflix is doing.
00:13:44 ◼ ► But if I'm BritBox or CBS All Access, I would be like, you know, yeah, integrate me, Apple, integrate me fully into your interface where my stuff is in there along with your other stuff.
00:13:58 ◼ ► And I'm just, you know, I'm part of the big package of all that content because it's more, you know, it's more subscribers, it's more money, it's easier, and it's providing access to those things.
00:14:11 ◼ ► So I imagine they'll get all of the partners that Amazon gets because those are the kinds of partners who benefit from that business model.
00:14:20 ◼ ► And then what they won't get is the ones like, you know, really like Netflix, where it just doesn't work.
00:14:31 ◼ ► Like, I feel like I go backwards and forwards on it because they don't have the competitive advantage that some of the other companies need, right?
00:14:47 ◼ ► And the argument would be, I think with Disney, it comes completely down to what the terms of the arrangement are, you know, what percentage does Apple take and all of that.
00:14:54 ◼ ► Because the great advantage of Disney+ being in Apple TV and on Prime Video is, you know, it's a huge potential audience and these big stores basically are selling your product rather than making everybody go on the outside.
00:15:14 ◼ ► The disadvantage is now you're mixing with other stuff and you got to do some revenue sharing and that's not so great.
00:15:26 ◼ ► If you're Disney, think about where you want to be in five years and then think, well, does that Apple deal make sense with where I want to be in five years?
00:15:37 ◼ ► I mean, I'm kind of the opinion that unless you are Netflix, these channel deals are good because it's another place for you to sell your stuff.
00:16:03 ◼ ► And this year I see it in my Prime Video with a bunch of other stuff when I'm thinking, oh, I'm going to watch a show, what do I have?
00:16:25 ◼ ► But you've got the convenience of the fact that all of that content is just kind of there and you can find it and you can see it.
00:16:35 ◼ ► Which I think from a consumer standpoint is the ideal, which is not to worry about what channel a show is on.
00:16:52 ◼ ► And I think it's good that Apple is doing it because Amazon is doing it and I think it's a good experience.
00:17:05 ◼ ► I mean, I really think like if you were wondering how Apple TV channels is going to work, just look at Amazon Prime channels.
00:17:35 ◼ ► So a lot of the advertising copy on Apple's website is referencing to the TV app as the new home for iTunes content.
00:17:52 ◼ ► And one of the reasons I will say this, that the TV app is coming to the Mac and they say in the fall, Marsapan, which I absolutely love.
00:18:07 ◼ ► So I'm wondering, you know, maybe we have thought of the potential that what it will now take for iTunes to go away is for Apple Music to be its own app built on Marsapan.
00:18:32 ◼ ► Well, I think on the Mac the more likely scenario is that iTunes, the app will remain like a QuickTime player for a while in this weird limbo where you can download it or it's there because there's stuff that it does that other apps don't do.
00:18:44 ◼ ► And it's actually a really nice escape valve for Apple because they don't need to build something that mirrors all the features of iTunes.
00:18:50 ◼ ► They can just build the things that they want and say, well, if you really want to manage an iOS device, just use iTunes.
00:19:08 ◼ ► I don't know quite whether there's some Marsapan stuff that they're going to put in the next version of macOS that they could also kind of package together and do in a Mojave update.
00:19:21 ◼ ► But I'm going to leave open the possibility of that just because the thing that does strike me as a little bit weird is if they say it's coming to the Mac in the fall.
00:19:31 ◼ ► But that may be it because it does feel very much like they're just going to take the TV app in Marsapan and run it on the Mac in the fall.
00:19:43 ◼ ► That is surely got to be to do with something that is released in September, i.e. the next version of macOS.
00:19:57 ◼ ► That was clearly like Samsung got an exclusivity period because LG, Vizio and Sony are all getting it.
00:20:12 ◼ ► And as we have again been talking about over the last few weeks, Roku and Fire TV will be getting the Apple TV app.
00:20:29 ◼ ► But the moment that they said we're going to be on those smart TVs, then I made a couple assumptions.
00:20:54 ◼ ► And then today you heard them say, oh, yeah, the TV app is going to be on the Samsung TVs soon.
00:21:01 ◼ ► They were really going to launch with the TV app and not just an Apple Music app or something.
00:21:20 ◼ ► Which means, yes, if you're somebody who's intrigued by the TV content that Apple is going to be providing in the fall,
00:21:42 ◼ ► Like, if all you've ever been thinking about are Apple TVs, whoo, well, these other ones are a lot cheaper.
00:21:59 ◼ ► And this is the answer to that question that we thought we knew in January, which is basically,
00:22:20 ◼ ► But it's not also a barrier in order to get you to qualify to use a portion of Apple's ecosystem.
00:22:37 ◼ ► But they've referenced Apple TV when talking about where these games are going to show up.
00:23:11 ◼ ► because Apple TV, the app, now is like it has top level navigation on the TV page on Apple's website.
00:23:29 ◼ ► Well, I missed the punctuation, but I do feel like this had to be the name of it, right?
00:24:48 ◼ ► having the ability to roll these smaller services inside of your ecosystem is a good thing.
00:25:17 ◼ ► And for consumers, I think it's actually a great deal because, you know, quite frankly,
00:25:29 ◼ ► It's like, I have loved not having to launch that app or deal with their infrastructure
00:25:59 ◼ ► You have work to do, side projects to complete, amazing episodes of Upgrade to listen to,
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00:26:42 ◼ ► The Simple Contacts app is super well made and the vision test is really easy to perform.
00:26:52 ◼ ► It's like the test that you usually have to go to the office for, but instead you can do
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00:28:07 ◼ ► products with plus in the name and some of them are written out P L U S and some of them just
00:28:32 ◼ ► I want to see what you think about this when they kind of showed off the Apple TV Plus.
00:28:50 ◼ ► I'm going to see if I can try and grab the audio and put it into the show so people can
00:29:04 ◼ ► So they timbrel out Zach van Amburg and Jamie Ehrlich to say, I was pleased about actually
00:29:22 ◼ ► I thought that they were the ideal candidates to this because Apple hired them June 2017,
00:29:37 ◼ ► And so for them to be able to push it across the finish line, I think was only appropriate.
00:29:48 ◼ ► television industry, like something like an upfront or a television critic associations
00:30:18 ◼ ► Now, the way they did it is fascinating because what they didn't do is what we assumed, which
00:30:34 ◼ ► And and showed kind of like a, there was like a backdrop and they actually had projectors
00:30:45 ◼ ► So it was almost like kind of a wraparound thing in the theater itself that up the sides
00:31:59 ◼ ► give it its branding, explain where it fits and what Apple is doing and show off the people
00:32:05 ◼ ► that it and that they value the creative people, right, which is some of these stories that
00:32:11 ◼ ► And this was Apple basically saying and sending a message to the entertainment industry saying,
00:32:25 ◼ ► One for the rumors and two just because they're continuing to sign more and more content whilst
00:32:32 ◼ ► And the tenor of the industry pieces and some of the larger like Wall Street Journal and
00:32:41 ◼ ► But when I read through the line between the lines of them, I kept thinking there's a lot
00:32:45 ◼ ► of people in Hollywood who are just frustrated that this is not a this is not a thing that's
00:32:56 ◼ ► But at the same time, those are the people who you have to work with to make these shows.
00:33:17 ◼ ► And it's Zack and Jamie on stage doing that because they're the ones who are making the
00:33:38 ◼ ► But if I'm a Hollywood person who is frustrated that it's all like I've been working for two
00:33:46 ◼ ► years on something that nobody even knows about, you know, maybe you're not Jennifer Aniston.
00:33:55 ◼ ► If you're not Jennifer Aniston, at least you know the circles in which you're moving the
00:34:12 ◼ ► And and while if you're a an Apple follower and you're frustrated because you were just
00:34:27 ◼ ► announced and shut off and they'll talk about pricing and like that's when we'll get our
00:34:52 ◼ ► So they could drop a Jason Momoa C trailer in May and say, isn't this, you know, everybody
00:35:02 ◼ ► And in July they could drop a thing with Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon and Steve Carell
00:35:25 ◼ ► It's a service that has been announced instead of being one of these coy, like we're very
00:35:51 ◼ ► Now, all we've really known about See is that it was a sci-fi show and it was probably the
00:36:04 ◼ ► Now I already had read that See was about a post-apocalyptic world where people can't see.
00:36:11 ◼ ► But there's, or at least even we, the very most, we had like real top line descriptions
00:36:53 ◼ ► It's and the funny thing about TV is this is why you have to do a lot of different shows
00:37:00 ◼ ► You know, I'm sure you already have understood that Stephen Hackett and I will both be right
00:37:19 ◼ ► Like I will say that, like, especially everything they showed today, I want to watch all that.
00:37:26 ◼ ► But like all of the shows that they that they put on stage today, I'm like, yeah, I would
00:37:36 ◼ ► Anthology shows, I have this theory, which is that anthology shows were big in the like
00:37:54 ◼ ► Like if I were if I were Steven Spielberg, I would send many notes of thanks to Charlie
00:38:01 ◼ ► Brooker for doing Black Mirror because everybody saw Black Mirror and was like, ooh, anthology
00:38:11 ◼ ► People like watching like shows with with the same actors and the same characters every
00:38:31 ◼ ► And of course, Amazing Stories with Mr. Spielberg, who doesn't want Netflix to win Oscars.
00:38:49 ◼ ► And I think that that is something I'm going to watch because I'm skeptical about the appetite
00:38:57 ◼ ► And if you look, let's see, the replacement for Black Mirror when it moved networks was
00:39:09 ◼ ► And that'll be great, except nobody will watch it because this is my prediction is nobody
00:39:15 ◼ ► And Black Mirror has sold has made a lot of money for a lot of people to make anthology
00:39:30 ◼ ► those celebrities, were there any like specific that stood out to you as you were just excited
00:39:41 ◼ ► And then the press is up up high and from far away, you know, it's like, is that Tim Robbins?
00:40:52 ◼ ► And she gave a really touching speech and they actually gave some information about what
00:41:10 ◼ ► or it's going to be a podcast, I'm not sure the book club that like the Oprah Book Club,
00:41:19 ◼ ► But yeah, so like that we we had assumed Oprah would would come out and Tim seemed very emotional
00:41:35 ◼ ► And in fact, when she wasn't in that original, the guy sitting next to me, I don't even know
00:42:05 ◼ ► So, you know, what they're using her for is also interesting because it's the, you know,
00:42:08 ◼ ► she's got a bunch of projects in the works that that was a good example of somebody who's
00:42:17 ◼ ► Although I think Reese Witherspoon's company has sold like three shows, didn't we say last
00:42:38 ◼ ► Oprah deal with Apple and she's got a documentary and a mini series doc and she's going to do
00:42:44 ◼ ► a book club, like with live conversation with the author and stuff, which I actually think
00:42:51 ◼ ► well, Oprah's book club on her weekday show in the US when that was on was enormous, like
00:43:00 ◼ ► And honestly, I think got people to read a book who'd never read books and it was a phenomenon.
00:43:05 ◼ ► And so the fact that she's kind of going to bring that back and use Apple as the platform,
00:43:09 ◼ ► I think could be very interesting depending on how they do it because the digital media
00:43:23 ◼ ► about the book and talk to people who are reading it and she's going to do this apparently
00:43:44 ◼ ► And if they can do that right using the technology at hand for Apple, that could be a big deal.
00:43:55 ◼ ► I mean, we will have every opportunity to talk about Apple TV+ in the future since it's not
00:44:07 ◼ ► We do know that pricing is going to be announced in the fall and that it is a subscription
00:44:13 ◼ ► service, which to me, and again, I don't believe these reports that we've seen that said, oh,
00:44:19 ◼ ► they're just going to give it away and make the money up on channels because I don't think
00:44:31 ◼ ► subscription service could mean that the pricing is nothing and that anybody can subscribe.
00:44:47 ◼ ► And then also, we'll see how they want to do the trial period because other stuff, Apple
00:45:05 ◼ ► - Yeah, and that's because they signed all of their deals to have full worldwide rights
00:45:12 ◼ ► - To which I sincerely thank Apple for making that happen because that was never a dead
00:45:39 ◼ ► Maybe you don't spend a lot of time thinking what goes on your feet, but let me tell you
00:46:24 ◼ ► I think that these are really cool and that they, like, Bombass socks are super comfortable.
00:46:43 ◼ ► They're made from super soft natural cotton and every single pair comes with arch support,
00:47:35 ◼ ► This is going to be another one of those situations where no one understands what I'm saying
00:47:56 ◼ ► Yeah, let's do it. This is the texture thing that Apple bought, which was the magazine service.
00:48:04 ◼ ► Now, the big difference here, and I thought very cleverly shown on stage by being demoed
00:48:27 ◼ ► the content feeds out and then have them display in an attractive way but using the Apple News
00:48:32 ◼ ► format. And so, yes, you can read them on your iPad and they'll look nice, but you can read
00:48:37 ◼ ► them on your iPhone. And so, they've taken their deals, the texture made with the publishers,
00:48:41 ◼ ► they seem to have rolled those over. So, there's 3,000, I mean, 300 magazines in total.
00:48:58 ◼ ► literally watching people complain about things that hadn't been mentioned yet as they were being
00:49:01 ◼ ► mentioned multiple times in this event, including, "But what about newspapers?" And the answer is,
00:49:08 ◼ ► well, yes, the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal, so not the Washington Post, not the
00:49:14 ◼ ► New York Times, but the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal are in there. There are a bunch
00:49:18 ◼ ► of digital premium subscribers, like subscriptions like TechCrunch has their new premium tier,
00:49:23 ◼ ► and that's gonna be covered in here and other stuff like that is gonna be covered as a part
00:49:28 ◼ ► of this single subscription plan. And unlike so many of the things announced today, this is
00:49:33 ◼ ► basically pushing out with the next version of iOS and macOS with an updated news app and will be a
00:49:41 ◼ ► one-month free trial and it has a price of $9.99 and is also launching in Canada. And they've got
00:49:48 ◼ ► Canadian partners, including magazines and a large newspaper and in English and French. And then
00:49:56 ◼ ► we'll be rolling out in the UK and Australia pretty soon, like this fall. So this is a service
00:50:05 ◼ ► - Yeah, because it's out now, right? Like that makes it just naturally the furthest, right?
00:50:10 ◼ ► - It's pretty far along if it's actually been released. Yeah, I think so. But I think this is,
00:50:15 ◼ ► I'm fascinated because my guess is that this was not part of their original plan with news.
00:50:21 ◼ ► If it was, then good for them for having the foresight. But like the first step with news
00:50:26 ◼ ► was to get the news app out and try to make the news reading experience and the web reading
00:50:31 ◼ ► experience nicer by letting Apple control the app part of it. And then you just have to generate
00:50:37 ◼ ► content in a feed format, in RSS or an Apple News format. And then they hired, they started hiring
00:50:46 ◼ ► editorial people to curate and they built recommendation engines, which also I should say,
00:50:51 ◼ ► every single presentation today had at least a nod toward privacy, which was very interesting. And
00:50:59 ◼ ► that is something that Apple has just all in on now. Every product, it's like the Greenpeace
00:51:04 ◼ ► protests leading to the eco-friendly slide on every single product announcement Apple makes.
00:51:11 ◼ ► This is like that, where it's like there will always be a privacy mention in a product or
00:51:16 ◼ ► service. And so here, they revealed that your personalized news recommendations actually come
00:51:22 ◼ ► from a pool of recommendations that is dropped in your device. And then your device uses its
00:51:28 ◼ ► on-device analysis of your behavior to select out of that pool and show you stories. So Apple
00:51:34 ◼ ► doesn't know what you're reading, only your device does and it doesn't radio that back.
00:51:39 ◼ ► That is really interesting. And I didn't know that before. I'm not sure if they've shared that
00:51:49 ◼ ► commitment to privacy is. Do you think, I mean, they didn't say, but like, do you think that
00:51:53 ◼ ► they're maybe doing some iCloud-based sharing like they do with photo stuff? Because you could end up
00:51:57 ◼ ► with completely different recommendations device to device, right? Depending on what you're reading.
00:52:02 ◼ ► I don't know. I think I don't use Apple News enough to say, but I think maybe there is some
00:52:12 ◼ ► it would make sense that it is that way. It doesn't mean that they did it, but that would
00:52:16 ◼ ► make sense. And that would be something that would be locked to you and it wouldn't be Apple knowing
00:52:21 ◼ ► it, right? It would be your data syncing across devices. So it may do that. Anyway, so the next
00:52:26 ◼ ► step of this is there's still a lot of paywalled content out there and it's not in Apple News.
00:52:31 ◼ ► And they decided to buy the texture service because they wanted to go in this direction.
00:52:36 ◼ ► And I got to say, I think this is a pretty cool idea. I think $10 a month to unlock access to all
00:52:43 ◼ ► sorts of extra content could potentially be really good. It all comes down to the partners. Although
00:52:48 ◼ ► I will say as a Californian, having the LA Times is really good because that's a really good
00:53:04 ◼ ► Wall Street Journal alone is not a bad deal at all if it truly is the bulk of the content from
00:53:09 ◼ ► the journal. And there's some kind of question about exactly what is in there. Yeah. It doesn't
00:53:14 ◼ ► seem that there's a definitive answer yet. But that and then like Sports Illustrated and like
00:53:18 ◼ ► some of the other magazine partners, like it doesn't take a lot if you're somebody who likes
00:53:21 ◼ ► to read. It doesn't take a lot for the $10 a month to actually be a pretty good deal. Now,
00:53:27 ◼ ► it's not for everybody, obviously, but their point with 300 magazines was to say, there's probably
00:53:33 ◼ ► five or 10 magazines on here that speak directly to you. You're not going to, as they said,
00:53:39 ◼ ► humorously, now, if you subscribe to all 300 magazines, it would cost you $8,000 a year.
00:53:45 ◼ ► Nobody's going to do that. But you can burrow down into something that is like super interesting to
00:53:53 ◼ ► you. Maybe Rolling Stone is interesting to you or Sports Illustrated would be interesting to me. I
00:53:57 ◼ ► used to subscribe to that. There's a lot of opportunity here for this to be not for everybody,
00:54:02 ◼ ► but to be a good deal for a lot of people who like to read. So this felt to me a lot like another
00:54:09 ◼ ► attempt at newsstand, right? Like Apple's old service. Yeah, they even said, "Oh, we love a
00:54:15 ◼ ► newsstand." And they had a picture of a newsstand with, I looked, MacLife, because MacWorld is not
00:54:20 ◼ ► printed anymore, but MacLife is still done in print. And there was a MacLife issue right in
00:54:25 ◼ ► front of a Wired edition. I was like, "Yeah, they put a Mac magazine in there. It's great."
00:54:28 ◼ ► So they mentioned a newsstand and they showed the newsstand. And, you know, this is what
00:54:34 ◼ ► newsstand should have been. That's the tragedy of it is that newsstand should have been this,
00:54:39 ◼ ► you know, eight years ago. Newsstand should have been this. Newsstand should have been,
00:54:44 ◼ ► and Steve Jobs got carried away with a product demo and went in a totally different direction.
00:54:49 ◼ ► Newsstand should have been, "I am providing you with this player, basically, app, and here's a
00:54:59 ◼ ► spec. You put your content in this format and it will be viewable." And instead, what newsstand was,
00:55:06 ◼ ► was, "Hey, why doesn't everybody write an app, their own custom app?" Which was super expensive,
00:55:12 ◼ ► hard to do, led to a lot of bad apps, and ultimately was a failure. So this is very much
00:55:19 ◼ ► like newsstand except the right way. As somebody who went through that process with MacWorld,
00:55:25 ◼ ► let me tell you, boy, I wish this had been it. Because it would have been so easy to set up a
00:55:30 ◼ ► project saying, "We're going to do an Apple News export from MacWorld Magazine." You know, whether
00:55:37 ◼ ► our business people would have wanted to do the deal for the premium one, I don't know. But
00:55:42 ◼ ► it would have been a conversation and it would have been something that would have been within
00:55:48 ◼ ► our area of expertise. And instead, we spent a lot of money on an app developer for an app that was
00:55:55 ◼ ► okay. So, you know, it is nice to see Apple finally get there with this. Apple News is a
00:56:00 ◼ ► pretty decent vehicle for this. Apple News is not my favorite thing. I don't use it a lot,
00:56:06 ◼ ► but it has gotten better over time. And I think that putting custom or putting premium content
00:56:14 ◼ ► in it could potentially make it just that much more appealing. Yeah, it reminded me of newsstand
00:56:21 ◼ ► in a few ways, right? Like the bold layouts and the interactive elements and moving images and
00:56:25 ◼ ► automatic downloading and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, except they did it all with this Apple News
00:56:30 ◼ ► format stuff where you don't have to write an app. You just have to, they write the app and say,
00:56:34 ◼ ► "Here are the rich elements you can provide me," which is absolutely the right way to do it.
00:56:49 ◼ ► when thinking about like, "Is this going to be a success?" It's like, "This is great for the
00:56:53 ◼ ► customer because you get a lot of option available to you for not a large amount of money, but what
00:56:59 ◼ ► is it going to be like for the publisher?" Like, we just, we don't know. And I think that that will
00:57:03 ◼ ► be the thing that ends up like, "Will this be newsstand failed attempt three, or is it going to be
00:57:09 ◼ ► a better, more long-lasting experience than that for more publishers?" We just don't know.
00:57:15 ◼ ► My gut feeling is that because this is something where there are deals happening behind the scenes,
00:57:19 ◼ ► that it is much more likely to be successful. There are already a lot of people using Apple News.
00:57:24 ◼ ► Because it's installed on every Apple device, there are a lot of people who use it. It's a
00:57:28 ◼ ► much friendlier approach than RSS was. As much as nerds love RSS, the fact is, regular people didn't
00:57:35 ◼ ► really ever get it. But that is basically what this is, is a glorified RSS kind of reader system.
00:57:43 ◼ ► And those deals behind the scenes can be adjusted. So if this, you know, Apple can drop its
00:57:54 ◼ ► Maybe some deals will fall out and others will come in. But I feel like it will, they've got
00:58:02 ◼ ► much more flexibility with something like this to kind of like keep adjusting it on the fly and
00:58:07 ◼ ► making sure that it works pretty well. If nobody ever uses it, then it'll be a flop. But I think
00:58:16 ◼ ► wildest dreams of some of the publishers, but I think it's got a shot. And I am somebody who has
00:58:21 ◼ ► kind of been skeptical about this thing. I think it's got a shot at success. Is this a product that
00:58:26 ◼ ► Jason Snow wants in his life? I will seriously consider it. I have a lot of things to read,
00:58:31 ◼ ► but I would seriously consider it because like I said, I think it's a pretty good deal. Just for
00:58:35 ◼ ► the LA Times and Wall Street Journal and, you know, some of those magazines alone, I will
00:58:41 ◼ ► seriously consider it. Yeah. Yeah. See, this isn't going to be my thing, right? I don't think,
00:58:46 ◼ ► unless, you know, like I pay for the Wall Street Journal because I get great use in my work out of
00:58:52 ◼ ► the articles that they write. But if, for example, it was the full Wall Street Journal experience
00:59:00 ◼ ► that I currently have available to me and/or it's just the things that I want, which is mostly the
00:59:04 ◼ ► tech coverage, then I would switch over to Apple News because it would be saving me money because
00:59:09 ◼ ► the Wall Street Journal is already more expensive than $10 a month. It's like $25 or $30 a month.
00:59:14 ◼ ► So, you know, there could be something in it there for me, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't
00:59:21 ◼ ► know if it's something that I particularly would want in my life. All right. Should we take another
00:59:29 ◼ ► break and then move on to Apple Arcade and Apple Card? Fantastic idea. All right. Today's episode
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01:01:39 ◼ ► Relay FM. Apple Arcade. This is... This is... Going on down to the Apple Arcade. Let me just say something
01:01:49 ◼ ► about the naming of these... Of this whole thing. You know, Apple confuses me with their naming,
01:02:01 ◼ ► Why do we have Apple Arcade? Like, how did that happen in the lineup of looking at their services?
01:02:09 ◼ ► I prefer the name Apple Arcade to Apple News Plus and Apple TV Plus, but it's like, "Ah, you're going
01:02:15 ◼ ► down a route." No, you're not. You've gone off on the left field here and we now have Apple Arcade.
01:02:21 ◼ ► What else would they call it? Apple Games Plus? Yeah, why not though? It's called News Plus and
01:02:46 ◼ ► Store, came out to talk about this and she said a phrase that I loved, "Competing with free is hard."
01:02:51 ◼ ► Yeah, this is basically the mea culpa on how distorted... I mean, they didn't say it this way.
01:02:55 ◼ ► They're like, "Hey, free-to-play games. Everybody loves them. They make lots of money and they make
01:02:59 ◼ ► lots of money for us because we take our cut and you do in-app purchases and it's great. Everybody
01:03:04 ◼ ► loves them." But what of the other games? Our system is broken and they are not as successful
01:03:11 ◼ ► as they should be. And so Apple has basically created a separate business model that is not
01:03:36 ◼ ► and they're exclusive to this service. Fascinating. So yeah, the publishing part is one of the things
01:03:43 ◼ ► that is most important. And I have some stuff that I want to get to about that in a minute.
01:03:47 ◼ ► But this is a hundred games that Apple are claiming some level of exclusivity over as part
01:03:54 ◼ ► of this game subscription service. Right, mobile exclusivity and service exclusivity. It doesn't
01:03:59 ◼ ► mean that they might not sell it on a console. Exactly, because there was a specific game that
01:04:04 ◼ ► they showed, which I think is called Overland, which is coming to the Switch. So it was one of
01:04:09 ◼ ► the ones that was in their little presentation. But to be honest, Apple just doesn't want these
01:04:15 ◼ ► games on Android. That's their big thing, right? Not on Android and not on any other maybe
01:04:21 ◼ ► subscription service that will come out. Now we need to say this is a subscription service. It
01:04:25 ◼ ► is not a streaming service. I get these names wrong all the time and I will continue to get
01:04:32 ◼ ► these names wrong. But like this is a, you pay an amount of money, you can download these games.
01:04:37 ◼ ► These games are yours, I'm assuming, until you stop paying. And you can play them offline,
01:04:42 ◼ ► you can play them online, etc. Like they are, you're paying an amount of money to get access
01:04:46 ◼ ► to playing these games. I think that they have an incredibly exciting selection of games available.
01:05:01 ◼ ► they're bringing Sonic Racing, Lego is building a game for this. Annapurna Interactive, they are like
01:05:08 ◼ ► a fantastic publisher. There are some sequels, there was a wonderful RPG called Oceanhorn,
01:05:18 ◼ ► have a new game called Repair, which is going to be here. There is a bunch of great studios,
01:05:23 ◼ ► a bunch of great developers. I am so excited about this because this isn't just a thing that I like,
01:05:43 ◼ ► are we going to see the makers of Clash of Clients here? And we're not because this isn't
01:05:55 ◼ ► We mentioned the Apple TV earlier. So these will be on iPhone, iPad, Mac, and the Apple TV.
01:06:01 ◼ ► I'm not expecting every game will be, but I bet a lot of games will be and where possible,
01:06:15 ◼ ► when this service is going to arrive, you should be able to make a game that runs on iOS
01:06:29 ◼ ► native iOS languages. Like you can, like, so for example, the reason that Altos Adventure
01:06:33 ◼ ► and Altos Odyssey are on the Mac is because they're just written in Unreal or whatever,
01:06:39 ◼ ► But I would imagine that the work that is done to make it work on iOS, that one of Apple's
01:07:06 ◼ ► Right. But I mean, I guess that's the question is will that stuff, I just, I look at this
01:07:10 ◼ ► and I think this is a reason why if you're building Mars of Pan, you prioritize the general
01:07:26 ◼ ► Not saying, not saying that, well, of course, Mars of Pan will bring up, but more like Mars
01:07:30 ◼ ► of plan. Mars of Pan is a thing that Apple has had to prioritize over this last year and before.
01:07:41 ◼ ► Aren't you? Just because you're going to be charging people for this and it makes them,
01:07:58 ◼ ► Anyway, if they're going to be involved in this service, we would like you to do this, right?
01:08:07 ◼ ► Apple made like a very quick kind of comment, uh, and I made a quick comment about kind of like
01:08:14 ◼ ► helping these studios out. I think Apple is acting as publisher. They are paying an amount of money
01:08:20 ◼ ► to these companies to grant this exclusivity and also to help them kind of get along their way here,
01:08:26 ◼ ► which makes perfect sense. And this is 100% the way they should do this. This one thing,
01:08:40 ◼ ► Apple doesn't get games. I think this is Apple getting games, Jason, but it's very important
01:08:46 ◼ ► that they do it this way. I want to hear from the developers about this. That is the next phase of
01:08:52 ◼ ► this. And what we'll hear over the next week is we'll hear from some game developers who are deep
01:08:57 ◼ ► down in this and their thoughts about this. But like you, I looked at this and I thought, Oh,
01:09:02 ◼ ► like that is such a better approach to say, we want this thing to succeed. Um, and we're gonna,
01:09:09 ◼ ► we're gonna not just like scoop up apps that get submitted to the app store and say, say,
01:09:14 ◼ ► would you like to have this? And no, they're gonna, you gotta start way before that. And if
01:09:18 ◼ ► you're gonna start way before that, you're gonna negotiate a deal. And if you negotiate an exclusive
01:09:22 ◼ ► distribution deal, um, part of that is probably, uh, you know, to kick in some money and maybe,
01:09:29 ◼ ► you know, you're a publisher at that point. But the idea here is Apple is going to create a
01:09:33 ◼ ► service that's going to throw off a lot of cash to developers, but it costs a lot of money to
01:09:38 ◼ ► develop these games. And a lot of these developers are small indie developers. So it may change over
01:09:44 ◼ ► time, but I like the idea of Apple saying, we want the catalog to be good. We're going to have more
01:09:49 ◼ ► than a hundred of these games and we've seen your track record and it's really good. And we're going
01:09:55 ◼ ► to be your business partner here. And by business partner, we don't mean you do all the work,
01:10:00 ◼ ► upload it to the store, we approve it, and then we take 30%. Right? It's not, that's not the kind of
01:10:05 ◼ ► business partner. This is, we're going to sign a deal with you. It's going to be exclusive. Maybe
01:10:09 ◼ ► we're going to get you money upfront so that you can actually build this game and then it'll be
01:10:13 ◼ ► exclusive in our service. So I want to hear from the game professionals about how they're, they
01:10:18 ◼ ► feel about this compared to other kind of competition, but iOS games is a pretty great place
01:10:23 ◼ ► to be. And I think there's potential and most of the greatness now is free to play within App Purchase,
01:10:29 ◼ ► but I love what they showed on stage. I love that they showed Monument Valley, for example,
01:10:35 ◼ ► and they had a screenshot of Alto. And it's like, I love those games. Those are, those are the best
01:10:42 ◼ ► games on iOS, right? They're not the most lucrative games, but they're the best games. And if Apple
01:10:47 ◼ ► does this right, what they're going to get is this second set of successful games on iOS that are
01:10:54 ◼ ► really great. And I'm sure they wouldn't say it because they do make a lot of money with the free
01:10:58 ◼ ► to play in App Purchase games, but in a much nicer environment where you don't have to build your
01:11:05 ◼ ► game to be a money machine. Instead, you can just make a beautiful game and people will play it and
01:11:10 ◼ ► love it and they'll make a lot of money. And I'll tell you, if Alto's Odyssey was in this service,
01:11:14 ◼ ► and they paid out based on the amount of time spent, they would have made a lot of money for me.
01:11:20 ◼ ► I know that for sure. They would have gotten all the money from my account for a few months,
01:11:29 ◼ ► the games that they showed again, like the trailer was great. The stuff that they've got on their
01:11:40 ◼ ► I'm very enthused about who Apple's deciding to work with, how they're like at least publicly
01:11:45 ◼ ► positioning themselves as like a partner with these companies. And like, I think that this is,
01:11:50 ◼ ► this feels as a avid player of iOS games, I'm excited about this. I'm excited that when I open
01:11:57 ◼ ► the App Store, I can go to the games tab and I can just get a new game. And it's like, all right,
01:12:01 ◼ ► I'll try this next one. And there's like going to be over a hundred and like a hundred of these
01:12:05 ◼ ► games at launch is what they're saying, right? I'll try and play as many of them as I can. Why
01:12:13 ◼ ► see if I'm interested. And you know, maybe I buy a couple a week. Well now, like I'll go to the
01:12:18 ◼ ► arcade tab and I'll download one of the new games that's there and I'll play it. Like, why not? Like,
01:12:22 ◼ ► I have it available to me. I'm really, really, really excited about this. This is, I think,
01:12:27 ◼ ► the thing that speaks the most to me and what I like. The TV stuff is obviously an interest to me,
01:12:40 ◼ ► I don't know why exactly, but it's the reason upstream, like one of the reasons upstream,
01:12:45 ◼ ► well, I think the reason is you, like you are a passionate, avid viewer of television. And for
01:12:50 ◼ ► some reason I am interested in the way that TV stream companies work. I don't know why this is,
01:12:56 ◼ ► but I just, I find it really interesting. It's a new kind of avenue for technology and technology
01:13:01 ◼ ► media. But I am a gamer. Like, I love video games and I love iOS games. And now I'm going to have
01:13:09 ◼ ► access to more great ones by great developers. And I am such a big fan of Indie Game Studios
01:13:30 ◼ ► Uh, but my feeling is kind of like, if you make a game that you have to pay for, you already have
01:13:35 ◼ ► such huge market focuses going against you. Is this really going to make it worse than it already
01:13:41 ◼ ► is? I don't know about that. I don't know. I think, um, if this is successful, it's basically
01:13:48 ◼ ► going to push the app store to be you're either in the subscription or you're free to play with
01:13:53 ◼ ► in app purchase. Like that will be the strong incentive if this is successful, but there are
01:13:57 ◼ ► two ways you do games on iOS. And if you want to be outside and charge $6 or whatever, you can do
01:14:04 ◼ ► that too. But it'll be a lot harder to get there. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It will be. Because if
01:14:13 ◼ ► look at the arcade tab and say, here's what's next. And if there's some app that's not in the
01:14:17 ◼ ► arcade, are you going to see it? I don't know. But then the, but the question that I would like
01:14:22 ◼ ► account of that with right now is are people seeing them anyway? I don't know. Right? Like, and I think
01:14:27 ◼ ► that might be why Apple has felt the requirement to move in on this. And this is something that
01:14:32 ◼ ► they can have a real positive impact for a lot of companies. And I, and I really hope that it's
01:14:37 ◼ ► something that will continue. I'm very intrigued about this one. Um, and it's, it's interesting
01:14:43 ◼ ► that they've announced it right now because it's not out for a while, fall again. So it's intriguing,
01:14:49 ◼ ► but we'll see. Yeah. Do you want to talk about Apple card? Well, of course. How could we not
01:15:01 ◼ ► card. They've partnered with Goldman Sachs. Uh, they've integrated into the Apple wallet. This
01:15:06 ◼ ► was stuff we kind of knew about before, right? This was what, this was what the rumors were from
01:15:10 ◼ ► Bloomberg, but we didn't really understand what any of that meant, right? Cause that on its own,
01:15:14 ◼ ► doesn't really seem to make much sense. As you would expect the credit card can be used online.
01:15:18 ◼ ► It can be used in stores worldwide is primarily through Apple pay, but Apple will be mailing
01:15:30 ◼ ► nothing because of course, uh, I kind of love that. Um, one of the bits has a few big things
01:15:37 ◼ ► about this. Like one is like quick applications. You just apply and I think like in Apple wallet,
01:15:41 ◼ ► and if you get it, you get it and it's immediately available to you. One of their big things is
01:15:45 ◼ ► something called daily cash. You get 2% cash back on purchases, 3% if you're purchasing something
01:15:50 ◼ ► from Apple and you get this every single day in cash deposited to your Apple pay cash card.
01:15:56 ◼ ► It was just, I was like, wow. Okay. So lots of, lots of credit cards do. And I think this is
01:16:02 ◼ ► something that's going to come out over the next week. And I tweeted something to the extent that,
01:16:05 ◼ ► Oh, well, I'm going to, I guess I'm going to spend some of my time this week doing research about how,
01:16:11 ◼ ► um, credit card, like what the best credit cards are and stuff, because people have do a lot of
01:16:16 ◼ ► research on this and it really depends on what, how you live your life and what your priorities
01:16:20 ◼ ► are about what credit card you should get. Um, it's not bad. Although my, I understand,
01:16:26 ◼ ► like somebody was tweeting at me, like Amazon has a credit card that gives you 5% back on Amazon
01:16:30 ◼ ► purchases. And so if you buy all your Apple stuff from Amazon, then you get 5% back and that's a
01:16:35 ◼ ► better deal. It's like, well, yeah, if you spend a lot on Amazon, that's the right card for you.
01:16:38 ◼ ► If you don't, it's not. Um, what's interesting about this is, uh, that these percentage cash
01:16:44 ◼ ► back seem decent. Um, and there are immediate, like we have a discover card here and we get like
01:16:50 ◼ ► certificates that we have to cash out at various points of the year, uh, for certain stores,
01:16:58 ◼ ► or we can get it in cash, but it's actually worth more. If you have a partner store and it's just
01:17:04 ◼ ► like, that's nice. But then I look at this and I think this is way better because my application,
01:17:10 ◼ ► my Apple pay cash balance, which they called Apple cash. So I feel like maybe Apple pay cash
01:17:16 ◼ ► has, is becoming Apple cash now. And then they're going to get rid of that pay part. Um,
01:17:21 ◼ ► it just goes in there and it goes in there every day. And, you know, I see the psychological
01:17:29 ◼ ► benefit of having that there because some of the companies that do the cash back, put it on your
01:17:36 ◼ ► balance. Some of them send you a check. Some of them send you a gift card. Some of them,
01:17:41 ◼ ► you have to do some work in order to get the result. And that's not as good. Um, and then
01:17:46 ◼ ► again, you know, you may be somebody who flies on Southwest airlines all the time and you've got
01:17:50 ◼ ► their card. And by, I read an article that said that was the best credit card deal in the U S if
01:17:55 ◼ ► you fly them, because you can earn so many points that you can qualify for their two for one pass.
01:18:00 ◼ ► And at which point you get essentially 50% off every single airfare. It's like, it's a great
01:18:05 ◼ ► deal. If you fit there for people who listen to this show, I look at this and I think, well,
01:18:11 ◼ ► a lot of people who love, who love Apple products, this is probably a pretty decent deal. Even if all
01:18:16 ◼ ► you're doing is using it to buy everything you buy from Apple, because you probably buy a lot of
01:18:21 ◼ ► stuff from Apple and you'll get 3% cash back, uh, right there. And that's pretty cool. So the
01:18:28 ◼ ► physical card is a 1%, which is, which is your let they're not providing a great incentive to
01:18:32 ◼ ► use the physical card, but they're like, well, we have to give you one and not every place takes
01:18:37 ◼ ► Apple pay. So we're going to do that. But, um, but it really does seem like a product designed
01:18:43 ◼ ► for Apple pay first and as a physical card last. So one of the things that I like is clarity. Um,
01:18:50 ◼ ► and it's not so much the money, it's like the clarity. And I think there's a lot of clarity
01:18:54 ◼ ► throughout the entire product. So the fact that you're seeing the cash back in cash and it's
01:19:00 ◼ ► arriving with you on a daily basis, personally, as a consumer, I prefer that the men at the other
01:19:05 ◼ ► myriad ways that this stuff can be done, whether you get back like a month later, or as you say,
01:19:09 ◼ ► you get it back in this like weird thing that you have to cash in at the end of the year and
01:19:13 ◼ ► a certificate. Yeah, it's no, it's, I get like why they do it that way. I don't like it. It's like
01:19:18 ◼ ► clipping coupons. It's extra work and they're trying to create a barrier between you and your
01:19:22 ◼ ► money. And I don't like you won't get it. And like, so I would give up a percent to have clarity
01:19:29 ◼ ► because that's just a decision that I would make as a consumer. Um, and I like a lot of the other
01:19:34 ◼ ► stuff that they're talking about. So Apple are targeting low interest rates and they're also
01:19:39 ◼ ► doing a lot of stuff that I like about trying to inform you about how much interest you'll pay on a
01:19:43 ◼ ► thing. And they're also trying to show you kind of like charts of your spending habits and things like
01:19:47 ◼ ► that. They are, there's a lot of the design of the app where there are a lot of kind of like,
01:19:53 ◼ ► internet first banks in the UK and in Europe. And I'm noticing a lot of design stuff, how like they
01:19:58 ◼ ► said they would break down, they use machine learning on your transactions to try and assign
01:20:03 ◼ ► some kind of code to an actual retailer. And then you can kind of see how much was spent,
01:20:08 ◼ ► uh, with a specific retailer. There are, there are companies like Monzo and TransferWise and,
01:20:15 ◼ ► and, uh, there's a couple of things like, there's Starling. There are a lot of these banks in the UK
01:20:20 ◼ ► and in Europe, we would do a lot of this stuff. They have really nice apps and they break all
01:20:24 ◼ ► this stuff down for you. I think that kind of stuff's really great. Um, no fees at all for
01:20:29 ◼ ► anything, which is for a credit card company, wild. And privacy focused. Like, I think this
01:20:37 ◼ ► is amazing. I am super sad that I won't be able to get this. Um, and I don't think I'm ever going
01:20:43 ◼ ► to get it. Well, but Jason, like Apple cash, Apple pay cash still is not out of the US.
01:20:49 ◼ ► Like, I think that my hope would be that some credit card company attached to a bank in the UK
01:20:56 ◼ ► sees this and they're like, we want a piece of that action. So then they might help Apple
01:21:01 ◼ ► establish themselves with the card and with Apple pay cash in the UK. That's what I hope will happen
01:21:07 ◼ ► with this. Um, and, or I also hope that the credit card is such a success that Apple accelerates its
01:21:13 ◼ ► efforts with the pay cash stuff and the credit card outside. Um, we will see, uh, it's launching
01:21:21 ◼ ► in the summer in the US, but like I personally, I would be immediately on this. Like, this would be
01:21:26 ◼ ► great for me, the way that I spend on credit cards. Like I like pay my credit card off every month.
01:21:31 ◼ ► Um, so like, you know, the interest rate stuff is never that much of an issue for me. Cause I,
01:21:35 ◼ ► I don't, I just, I had, I went through all this when I was a much younger man. Uh, and, and I
01:21:40 ◼ ► don't, I don't like to get into debt in these ways where I can avoid it. Um, and I, I, but I think
01:21:47 ◼ ► that this is a very interesting play for Apple. This is, this is something else. Like I tweeted
01:21:53 ◼ ► this, like when this happened, like this is not your grandparents, Apple, like this is not, this
01:21:58 ◼ ► is a very, very different company. This is a company who wants to take your money and they want
01:22:04 ◼ ► your money to flow through them. And then they're going to give you money to spend on their stuff.
01:22:16 ◼ ► This is what you do because you have so much money. What else are you going to do with it all?
01:22:22 ◼ ► By the way, if you have a trillion dollars in the bank, you are literally the bank. Um,
01:22:25 ◼ ► the other bank now they, they are kind of the bank now. This is, um, also Apple's Apple's
01:22:33 ◼ ► rationale here for this product is not. Um, the rationale that almost anybody else has a credit
01:22:39 ◼ ► card for, and that is powerful for them because they have all of this influence that they can,
01:22:45 ◼ ► they can do this. And this, you know, we made a deal with Goldman Sachs and all of that. It does
01:22:49 ◼ ► have, it feels a little bit like the early days of the, uh, of the iPod and the iTunes store where,
01:22:55 ◼ ► um, Apple was coming at it from a different angle and they got a partner to go along with them or
01:23:00 ◼ ► even the iPhone and singular to a certain extent, it feels like that where it's sort of like, well,
01:23:03 ◼ ► we need a bank to be a partner to do this, but we have all of these priorities that are not,
01:23:08 ◼ ► uh, anybody else's priorities in the financial services arena because we're Apple. Our priorities
01:23:13 ◼ ► are different. Our priorities are, um, we have a business with lots of devices and we want to take,
01:23:18 ◼ ► uh, we'll just take our cut out of all the transactions that are going to pass through.
01:23:24 ◼ ► And that works for us. So we don't want, and what we want in exchange is we want the bank we're
01:23:29 ◼ ► using to agree not to take any data and sell it, which I don't know if people know this, but like
01:23:35 ◼ ► almost every bank will sell resell your personal data. Like they do that. That's part of their
01:23:41 ◼ ► business model. So we're not going to let them do that. And Apple's gonna keep stuff on device and
01:23:46 ◼ ► not even analyze a whole bunch of stuff that you do. And, and they put up that slide. It's basically
01:23:51 ◼ ► like, there are all these things about your transaction that Apple just doesn't even know.
01:23:55 ◼ ► And, um, and it's all kept on device and, and yes, they extended the wallet app to do some stuff too,
01:24:01 ◼ ► which is nice, but, um, and some of that they could probably do with every card that's an Apple
01:24:07 ◼ ► pay. And it's a little disappointing that they're like only our card, but it's their prerogative.
01:24:12 ◼ ► But, um, you know, because their priorities are different, their product is a little bit different
01:24:22 ◼ ► this will be a very good option. Um, especially since, you know, Apple is not trying to necessarily
01:24:28 ◼ ► be the best available deal to go back to my coupon clipping metaphor. I'm positive that an expert
01:24:38 ◼ ► would show you any number of credit cards or sets of credit cards that you could sign up for,
01:24:44 ◼ ► for various things and work out a whole program where you could maximize the amount of savings.
01:24:48 ◼ ► And if you take flights on this airline, you should get that card and make these kinds of
01:24:53 ◼ ► purchases with it. I have no doubt that if you put a huge amount of effort into it, you can maximize
01:24:58 ◼ ► the amount of savings you get from various credit cards and the ones that have fees and the ones that
01:25:03 ◼ ► don't and that whole thing. However, Apple's not playing that game, which is not surprising since
01:25:10 ◼ ► Apple also doesn't play the low, low price game when it comes to product prices. What Apple wants
01:25:15 ◼ ► to do is create something that's simple, that has very clear direct benefits to you, that is a
01:25:22 ◼ ► pretty good deal, even if it's maybe not the very, very, very best deal in credit cards and has this
01:25:28 ◼ ► whole layer of like features and, uh, in software and security and privacy layered on top. Cause
01:25:34 ◼ ► what Apple wants to be is, um, make a good enough product to solve a product that people are like,
01:25:40 ◼ ► Oh, I'll just get the Apple thing. That's the easiest thing. And it's good. And it's fine.
01:25:44 ◼ ► It's not ripping me off. And like, that's sort of the bar is it's, you know, the experts say you
01:25:49 ◼ ► could get some better deals, but it'll be more effort and, and let, and, and you might have to
01:25:54 ◼ ► like be a change your buying patterns a little bit. Um, that's fine. Apple, Apple is not, I think,
01:26:01 ◼ ► even shooting for that. Apple just wants that the, the credit card equivalent of the app installed
01:26:05 ◼ ► on your device. That's what they want to be. It's like you have an iPhone so easy to sign up on your,
01:26:12 ◼ ► on your phone for this credit card and use it to buy all your stuff and you get cash back and you
01:26:17 ◼ ► can see the cash coming back in a push notification appears saying you just got $8 back for that thing
01:26:23 ◼ ► you bought. Like I, I totally see what they're going for here. And, um, it could be very
01:26:29 ◼ ► successful for them. Even, even though it's not for everybody, because again, it doesn't have to
01:26:33 ◼ ► be for everybody. And I do think we'll be inundated in the next week with a lot of people and a lot of
01:26:37 ◼ ► stories about how it's, Oh no, this Apple thing is not for everybody. Now, of course it's not
01:26:42 ◼ ► like, you know, I'm interested in it myself, but I've been meaning to research that Southwest
01:26:48 ◼ ► airlines credit card too, because I've heard and I use them a lot that that might actually be a
01:26:53 ◼ ► great deal because I, you know, since I use them, their big discounts would go further for me. If
01:26:59 ◼ ► you're a heavy Amazon user, the Amazon card, which I am a heavy Amazon user, I've never even considered
01:27:05 ◼ ► using Amazon's credit card. Right. So, you know, it doesn't have to be for everyone, but I do. It's,
01:27:10 ◼ ► it's got a lot of stuff wrapped up in it. This feels for, for a totally weird non-Apple product,
01:27:16 ◼ ► cause it's a financial services product. It actually feels like an Apple product to me in
01:27:22 ◼ ► Just dealing the chat says, I think Apple's main incentive is that if people get the Apple card,
01:27:27 ◼ ► they will be less likely to transition to another mobile phone vendor. Yes. That's the no, but like,
01:27:32 ◼ ► that's all of this. That's what all of this is. Everything we're talking about today, all that,
01:27:36 ◼ ► that services, that's what services is for them. It's the lock-in and getting extra money out of
01:27:42 ◼ ► their customers. It's not always right. The TV app isn't locked in because it'll be on other devices,
01:27:47 ◼ ► but there is this virtuous cycle of being a part of the Apple ecosystem and having access to these
01:27:54 ◼ ► nice things. I'd say it's also very similar to their whole privacy thing that they're pushing.
01:27:58 ◼ ► Now is sort of like, yeah, Apple stuff's a little more expensive, but it's just nicer. And like,
01:28:03 ◼ ► even the credit card is nicer and like that's, that's their core audience, right? That's their
01:28:08 ◼ ► core appeal in the end is yeah, all this, all this Apple stuff is nicer. And once you're in the Apple
01:28:14 ◼ ► ecosystem using their stuff as nicer and easier and better integrated. So you might as well just
01:28:18 ◼ ► use their stuff and use their credit card and all of that. Like that is, we can debate those points,
01:28:23 ◼ ► but like that is what they're going for and that they've had a lot of success. And this doesn't
01:28:27 ◼ ► have to be a bad thing. And I don't think that Joe is necessarily saying that it is a bad thing,
01:28:32 ◼ ► but it is a realistic thing. Like the point of the services stuff is to give Apple another
01:28:39 ◼ ► avenue to go down. And it's two things. You want to get more money where you can get it and you
01:28:43 ◼ ► want to give your customers more of a reason to want to stay with you. And these are that,
01:28:48 ◼ ► like it doesn't have to be like the lock-in idea. I think a lot of the time is met with an idea of,
01:28:53 ◼ ► oh, that's a bad thing. It's like, no, it's like lock-in is a phrase that can be used. It's just
01:29:00 ◼ ► like it is making you feel better for the choice of phone that you made. Right? Like you decided
01:29:07 ◼ ► to get an iPhone and now look at all this stuff you can do and all of this other stuff that you'll
01:29:11 ◼ ► be able to do, like good work on your choice. And that's how I feel as a customer of Apple,
01:29:18 ◼ ► that like I have a bunch of benefits that I get and all of this stuff when my, when I'm in the
01:29:23 ◼ ► right country for it, is available to me. And I think that that is a good thing as a person who
01:29:28 ◼ ► decided many years ago that Apple is the right platform for him. And now I'm continuing to reap
01:29:33 ◼ ► the benefits of that. Well, when I look at my friends on Android and in other ecosystems,
01:29:39 ◼ ► I feel like that the overall that you get in that world sometimes, a lot of the time, isn't as
01:29:45 ◼ ► like wholly inclusive of giving you all the services and things that you want for a price
01:29:51 ◼ ► that you're happy with in a way that meets your own sensibilities. And I think that this is another
01:29:57 ◼ ► example of that. Like I would want this product because I think that it's a cool product and it
01:30:02 ◼ ► would tie into the things that I use every single day. Like I think that for me personally, the
01:30:07 ◼ ► arcade and the card are the two things that I think resonate with me personally the most out
01:30:13 ◼ ► of these as a consumer. I really want to be able to access both of these services. I am very
01:30:20 ◼ ► intrigued about the content that Apple is making and I'm looking forward to seeing more and I know
01:30:25 ◼ ► that I'm going to be subscribing and watching that. But like I would take the card no question
01:30:29 ◼ ► right now and I cannot wait to give Apple my money for Apple Arcade. Fascinating. All right,
01:30:34 ◼ ► the Upgradients have been reaching out with their questions and we should definitely try and help
01:30:39 ◼ ► them where we can, Jason. But I want to thank our final sponsor for this week's episode and that is
01:30:44 ◼ ► Luna Display. I love Luna Display. I love that with my Luna Display I can have extra screen space
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01:33:07 ◼ ► at Real AFM. So good, so good. Myke, I have a segment before we go to Ask Upgrade. Oh a new segment?
01:33:13 ◼ ► Yes it is not a recurring segment but something I wanted to put in here which is just a moment to
01:33:18 ◼ ► think to pause to consider what didn't get announced at this event that could in the future
01:33:25 ◼ ► and what I'm thinking is that plus, that plus Myke, the plus that's not on the arcade but
01:33:31 ◼ ► that's on TV, that's on news, where else might it go? And I have a few suggestions that I'm just
01:33:37 ◼ ► going to mention here. I'm not saying these are going to happen. Some of them it's probably less
01:33:41 ◼ ► likely that they're going to happen but I want to, I think it would be useful for all of us over the
01:33:45 ◼ ► next few weeks to consider what else Apple could make a service and slap a plus on and I have a
01:33:50 ◼ ► few suggestions. One is Apple Music Plus. I'm not quite sure what they would do but is there
01:33:59 ◼ ► exclusives like they did with the iTunes sessions and they could put up a bunch of like live albums
01:34:04 ◼ ► and acoustic sessions and stuff like that and brand them as music plus. I mean you're already
01:34:08 ◼ ► paying for Apple Music so you probably not but I wonder about that. Apple Books Plus, so Kindle
01:34:16 ◼ ► Unlimited and there's Prime Reading. Amazon has got a few different kind of like subscription
01:34:22 ◼ ► book reading services. I'm not sure how big that business would be for Apple. I'm not sure how big
01:34:27 ◼ ► it is for Amazon but I'm just going to throw it out there. That's an example of a subscription
01:34:31 ◼ ► service that provides you with basically free books that you can read and I don't use that
01:34:40 ◼ ► service but it's there and I think that's kind of interesting so I'll throw that out there. And the
01:34:44 ◼ ► one that put a little chill down my spine but we talked about how so many companies like Spotify
01:34:50 ◼ ► are investing in original audio content that they're calling a podcast but is limited to their
01:34:57 ◼ ► app and I don't know if Apple has any designs to do this but Apple Podcasts Plus right like what
01:35:04 ◼ ► if they did a subscription service for original podcast material. I think what's working against
01:35:10 ◼ ► all of these things is Apple has bigger fish to fry and that they would rather focus on these more
01:35:21 ◼ ► you know and maybe it wouldn't be in podcast maybe it would be part of music or it would be it would
01:35:25 ◼ ► come with music but I keep thinking Apple's position in podcasting is so powerful they are
01:35:30 ◼ ► still number one in terms of the playback environment and they haven't made any attempt
01:35:35 ◼ ► to make a service out of it yet. I don't know if I can really put my mind to that thought about the
01:35:43 ◼ ► podcasting thing right now. Just watch for the pluses keep watching for pluses. Think about the
01:35:47 ◼ ► pluses what could get a plus stuck on the end of it because plus means recurring revenue at the
01:35:54 ◼ ► services line and they like that. Let's go to #AskUpgrade our first question comes from
01:36:00 ◼ ► Wayne. If you bundled all of Apple's services now that you know them all at least how much would it
01:36:05 ◼ ► be a reasonable price for you? So how much would you pay? So we know that one of them is $10 a month
01:36:12 ◼ ► I'm going to assume that Arcade will probably be $10 a month. I reckon they're all going to be
01:36:18 ◼ ► like 10 so I reckon we're going to get like at that point we'll have four of them right including
01:36:23 ◼ ► music so it'd be like $40 would be the total price. I would like to see 25 I would pay 30
01:36:41 ◼ ► Yeah that's how it works Myke you want it to be 25 you round it up and then it's more than that
01:36:50 ◼ ► I don't I haven't had time to think about it if you think of video as being in the in the
01:36:56 ◼ ► 7 to 15 range probably more likely 10. Music is 10 or 15 sort of the family you know one price
01:37:04 ◼ ► for families is not something they do for music you have to charge it you they make you pay extra
01:37:08 ◼ ► for families but it's you know 10 or 15 you start to add it up and yeah you end up in in 50 a month
01:37:15 ◼ ► and is there a what what's the deal that makes you take those services that you don't want because if
01:37:21 ◼ ► the average person only buys two of them well that's 20 so a $30 bundle or $25 bundle doesn't
01:37:27 ◼ ► really work for them. Everyone in the chat room is saying iCloud yes yes iCloud iCloud could also
01:37:33 ◼ ► go in there sure same price economics. Sure if you wanted to so yeah I don't know I don't know
01:37:40 ◼ ► exactly but I still think a bundle makes sense and I really and it turned out to be Oprah but for a
01:37:46 ◼ ► while I really thought they were leading up to the big last thing being what what how do you bundle
01:37:51 ◼ ► this but they don't have prices for these things so they can't bundle them you can't bundle them
01:37:55 ◼ ► if you haven't announced prices for them that doesn't matter yeah that's like why would you
01:37:59 ◼ ► even bother so and also you can't sell the bundle because they're not available right like the bundle
01:38:03 ◼ ► if there's going to be a bundle the bundle will probably come in September which is when TV plus
01:38:09 ◼ ► and arcade will be will be available as well. Yeah and so that's that's my guess is that we'll get it
01:38:16 ◼ ► and there will be I have a hard time again seeing there not being a bundle there's just it makes too
01:38:21 ◼ ► much sense they will get more subscribers into all of these things by offering a little bit of
01:38:26 ◼ ► a discount but you know I don't know what that price is it probably more than you want though.
01:38:32 ◼ ► Brian asks you know this was a services event there were four services if you count the card
01:38:39 ◼ ► in those announced today only one of them is available why did they announce arcade the card
01:38:44 ◼ ► and tv plus so far in advance? All right so tv I said earlier I think part of it is just to get it
01:38:50 ◼ ► out there they're they're planning a stake in the ground they got their name they know other services
01:38:55 ◼ ► are being announced they've set a date to it it means all of the people who are making the shows
01:38:58 ◼ ► don't can stop complaining that that nobody has heard anything about what Apple is doing it lets
01:39:03 ◼ ► Apple do freeze Apple up to continue to promote them whenever at once because the cat is out of
01:39:09 ◼ ► the bag so that's the reason for that one I would say globally by the way it made this there's a
01:39:16 ◼ ► coherent presentation I think there's value in that in having a presentation about services that
01:39:22 ◼ ► if these services were tacked onto the end of hardware announcements it would be you could do
01:39:28 ◼ ► it but I think there's value in Apple having a very straightforward like let's talk about all
01:39:32 ◼ ► the services we provide and all the ways that they're similar and if you do that they're not
01:39:36 ◼ ► all going to be ready at the same time and they don't want to delay the ones that are ready.
01:39:39 ◼ ► Card I don't know other than that it probably financially you know like all the details we're
01:39:48 ◼ ► going to leak out at some point anyway and it's part of the services conversation so you might
01:39:51 ◼ ► as well get it out now. Arcade is interesting because it could have been a WWDC announcement
01:40:18 ◼ ► No it's a that this may have originally been intended as an App Store announcement or a WWDC
01:40:25 ◼ ► announcement which would make sense because it's developers right but I could see it being in
01:40:30 ◼ ► either event it really is appropriate for either event and maybe tipping it over the top is the
01:40:37 ◼ ► fact that Google announced a GDC their whole big Stadia initiative which is a Google subscription
01:40:44 ◼ ► streaming games service and I wonder if that might you know I don't think that's the only reason
01:40:51 ◼ ► because I do think it fits. Very different services. And they are different but I could
01:40:57 ◼ ► see how that maybe tipped the balance toward including it in this presentation rather than
01:41:02 ◼ ► sitting on it. I think it makes way more sense here because I think it's pretty clear that at
01:41:07 ◼ ► least for the time being this is not a thing that anybody can just decide that they want to become
01:41:11 ◼ ► a part of with Arcade. Right the developer they're not going to evangelize to WWDC like hey we have
01:41:16 ◼ ► this game subscription service don't call us we'll call you. You know even if that's true now it also
01:41:22 ◼ ► frees them up at WWDC to answer questions about the subscription gaming service and maybe even say
01:41:27 ◼ ► here's you know here's how this works and talk to your if you're a game developer talk to your
01:41:31 ◼ ► developer contact or however they want to do it or or forget about it even it lets them communicate
01:41:37 ◼ ► that it lets the questions kind of queue up over the course of the next few months instead of it
01:41:41 ◼ ► being dropped on developers especially since as you put it you know it this isn't the sort of
01:41:47 ◼ ► thing where you just sign up and so to roll that out of WWDC actually would be maybe a little more
01:41:53 ◼ ► awkward. Myke wrote in to ask this is not me will Apple cars require approval and I looked through
01:41:59 ◼ ► the Apple's website and it will so they spoke about the fact that you can sign up for it and
01:42:04 ◼ ► you'll have it in minutes that's true but they are still doing a credit check on you and your approval
01:42:09 ◼ ► is subject to a credit check passing. Credit checks can be instantaneous these days it is not a long
01:42:15 ◼ ► process so so you can have it in minutes but you will need to pass a credit check to be able to use
01:42:20 ◼ ► Apple card. And if you've frozen your credit you may have to unfreeze it and then do the credit
01:42:25 ◼ ► check then but they're trying to make it easy but it's still a credit card. Yeah yeah ultimately
01:42:30 ◼ ► there's still risk that you know that they're not taking fee that you're gonna have to pass
01:42:34 ◼ ► a credit check. We have no idea how stringent Apple's gonna be and your interest rate as
01:42:38 ◼ ► normal will be within a range depending on your credit history but yeah also pay off your credit
01:42:44 ◼ ► cards don't don't don't the interest rates are too high you get a credit card pay it off pay it off
01:42:50 ◼ ► if you can. Colton has written in to ask do you still think that Apple TV+ could be on Android
01:42:56 ◼ ► or at least the web? I do not anymore Jason I think we've seen everything we're going to see for it.
01:43:08 ◼ ► options we have been given in the past which is Apple wants it to be available on every TV
01:43:15 ◼ ► but on other devices it's only on Apple devices and that could be the scenario. Could be is the
01:43:24 ◼ ► question here and I'd say yeah I think it still could be I think there is it is still possible
01:43:29 ◼ ► that Apple will make this stuff available on the web or on Android or both down the road because
01:43:36 ◼ ► they you know it will increase the number of devices that can watch it but I think clearly
01:43:41 ◼ ► their number one priority was TV. On an infinite time scale of course but like I think that if
01:43:46 ◼ ► we're looking at like within launch period I don't think so I think we've seen I think we've seen
01:43:51 ◼ ► what we're going to see there. Yeah presumably if they were going to launch with a web browser
01:43:55 ◼ ► they would have done it they would have said so they didn't. They didn't and I think that they
01:43:59 ◼ ► have actually made it available to more people in more ways than I expected like no like I'm not
01:44:05 ◼ ► saying like you need to buy a new TV right that is one way but the other way is two products from two
01:44:10 ◼ ► companies that make relatively inexpensive sticks Amazon and Roku like that is making it very
01:44:18 ◼ ► available to a lot of people and really the best way to get this content is going to be on a
01:44:22 ◼ ► television right it's going to always be the best way to view this content is on a television and
01:44:27 ◼ ► if you don't have access to a television then you probably want an iPad right like that's that's
01:44:32 ◼ ► probably what you want to do for this type of stuff. Steve asks is this the weirdest Apple event
01:44:37 ◼ ► that you have ever covered? Not even close. This is why I wanted to put this in there because I
01:44:43 ◼ ► was hoping Jason that you would be able to provide a bit of context I don't think this is a weird
01:44:46 ◼ ► Apple event at all if anything I thought that this was a much more Apple-y feeling Apple event than
01:44:51 ◼ ► even I was expecting it to be. Yeah other than the the part where the individual TV people came
01:44:56 ◼ ► out on stage and talked like the screen went black the the stage went black and then they they
01:45:01 ◼ ► magically appeared right? I think that they handled it really well all of that everyone was
01:45:05 ◼ ► interesting and entertaining you know like I actually did an interesting job. Yeah although
01:45:09 ◼ ► Camille Nongianno is the very clearly the polished public speaker of the group right? Yeah.
01:45:17 ◼ ► Yeah that guy that was did a good job too though I thought that he was pretty good he told a good
01:45:21 ◼ ► story. Yeah it's just you know actors like to read their lines so the I'm sorry Jen just saying it
01:45:28 ◼ ► as like it is anyway the because she loves you Jen I just still love you glad to be in the room with
01:45:34 ◼ ► you. The the there was a like a quick time event back in the pre-jobs time which was one of the
01:45:43 ◼ ► most bizarre because it was like we're showing you quick time is like the future dude and it's like
01:45:48 ◼ ► VR and and cool you know codex and it was so strange I still have like a note was this the
01:45:55 ◼ ► event that you went to where you kind of said please stop inviting us to these events was that
01:46:00 ◼ ► the one no there was the one right before the iMac which I don't even remember it was so not memorable
01:46:05 ◼ ► but there was something that was like let us tell you about our products that you already know about
01:46:09 ◼ ► and we're like okay stop inviting us and then the next event was the iMac and one person went
01:46:14 ◼ ► because we're like you fooled me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you and then it was the
01:46:18 ◼ ► iMac and we're like oh and I've been to every Apple event since that it was shame on us after all
01:46:23 ◼ ► yeah turns out Steve Jobs actually had something but the previous event was nothing and in the jobs
01:46:27 ◼ ► era I would say there was that Macworld Expo New York event where they obviously had a product that
01:46:34 ◼ ► fell out and so they brought like who was it John Rubenstein maybe Avi Tavanian they brought
01:46:43 ◼ ► somebody out to like explain how processors work and like the megahertz myth and why G4s were better
01:46:50 ◼ ► than Intel processors and it was like time stopped that was I mean was that weird or just bad I don't
01:46:57 ◼ ► know it was super weird that they were doing it there is a part of Jason still in that room I am
01:47:02 ◼ ► still at the Javits Center listening to Avi Tavanian talk about the processor cycles or was
01:47:08 ◼ ► it John Rubenstein or both or none or a strange fusion of both of them that was inside a processor
01:47:14 ◼ ► inside an Intel bunny suit by the way somebody asked if the guy who was demoing Apple News was
01:47:18 ◼ ► the first person on stage at an Apple event wearing a jumpsuit and my immediate response was
01:47:30 ◼ ► Intel bunny suit on stage at some point and then and then the last Macworld Expo keynote which was
01:47:36 ◼ ► Phil Schiller I think they didn't have anything to announce specifically and it was weird because
01:47:41 ◼ ► it was like a Steve Jobs keynote without Steve Jobs which during that era didn't happen but it
01:47:47 ◼ ► was like you know you don't get Steve Jobs you just get Phil here he is and you know Phil's fine
01:47:52 ◼ ► but it was very much like nope don't nobody come nobody come we're leaving this show nobody come
01:47:59 ◼ ► so there have been other weird Apple events and I agree with you Myke this was actually more normal
01:48:04 ◼ ► than I thought it would be and finally today Myke not me asks will I be able to stream iTunes
01:48:10 ◼ ► content to my Roku when the TV app launches and I think yes that's the that's the point so like the
01:48:15 ◼ ► TV app will have access to your iTunes content because I think that's where it's all going to be
01:48:21 ◼ ► they said they were acting they were adding the entire iTunes movie library to the TV app so
01:48:26 ◼ ► basically all the iTunes media stuff should be in the TV app because it's all going away
01:48:31 ◼ ► iTunes is coming away this is where you're going to buy it from like you you will be at you can buy
01:48:37 ◼ ► in the TV app now which you couldn't do before you have to go out to iTunes but that's coming in the
01:48:42 ◼ ► tv OS update like this is the screenshots on Apple's website you just buy and rent right in
01:48:46 ◼ ► the TV app real-time follow-up from Zach in the chat room it was Rubenstein Jason it was Rubenstein
01:48:53 ◼ ► okay Avi Tavaniyan's ghost was walking through the down the down the middle of the aisles trying to
01:49:00 ◼ ► Vainian still very much alive well it was his Apple employee ghost is what it was yes John
01:49:06 ◼ ► Rubenstein would like to tell you about these there's little animations of little like commands
01:49:12 ◼ ► being sent into the processors and parallel and risk and and yeah part of my soul remains there
01:49:20 ◼ ► we did it Jason Snow that was the service that was the services event yeah I guess you could
01:49:26 ◼ ► say that this podcast is a service that we provide I would agree with you and if you would like to
01:49:32 ◼ ► read about those service relay.fm/upgrades/238 for information about this episode including
01:49:41 ◼ ► I am sure Jason will have many articles that he will be panning about today's information
01:49:45 ◼ ► go to sixcolors.com and you'll be able to read those there Jason is also on twitter he's @jsnw
01:49:51 ◼ ► J S N E L L I'm @imyke I did this before and I did it again on Instagram I kind of publish what
01:50:01 ◼ ► it's like to be Myke on a day like today and I'm going to create like an Instagram highlight so if
01:50:06 ◼ ► you want if you are at all interested what it is like to be Myke Hurley on a day like this
01:50:11 ◼ ► trying to kind of wrangle all the information and get ready to record upgrade very late in the
01:50:16 ◼ ► evening I will have a link in the show notes where you can go and see what that's like on my
01:50:20 ◼ ► Instagram page so that's my version of live blogging like what is Myke doing today that's
01:50:26 ◼ ► that's kind of all I have Jason Mann's the bleed six colors is that is that is it six colors events
01:50:32 ◼ ► right is the six colors event twitter account for life yeah I don't want to pollute everybody's
01:50:36 ◼ ► twitter account if they don't want it yeah that's what that's what that's what Jason's doing and I'm
01:50:41 ◼ ► just posting on my Instagram stories so you know so to each their own really I think Jason's work
01:50:47 ◼ ► is a bit more important than mine but but it's okay we made it we made it through Jason Snell
01:50:52 ◼ ► I want to thank everyone Simple Contacts, Bombast, TextExpander and Luna Display for their support of