00:00:13 ◼ ► Borrow, TextExpander, and Moo. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow.
00:00:26 ◼ ► Oh, okay, good. Well, should we just- should we start where we normally start with a #SnowTalk
00:00:30 ◼ ► question? Oh, well, I was- I was tempted to say, "Why don't we do the entire show backward?" But
00:00:47 ◼ ► It's Downgrade. Oh, there it is. We're working this out on the show. We can't give away all of
00:00:52 ◼ ► our secrets. Summer of Fun is coming. Summer of Fun is coming soon. Sooner than you may think.
00:00:57 ◼ ► Our #SnowTalk question today comes from Jim, and Jim wants to know, "Jason, how is your life with
00:01:03 ◼ ► your Leaf going? Better, worse, or as expected for range and practicality?" Worth noting, a Leaf
00:01:13 ◼ ► so excited about the, you know, prospect of getting an electric car, but I'm cheap, and so I bought a
00:01:20 ◼ ► used- that Nissan Leaf had come off a lease that somebody had had it on for three years or
00:01:36 ◼ ► but we bought it as a- as much as I hate to say this- third car because my daughter basically
00:01:50 ◼ ► And we thought that this- originally, this was going to be the car that we let her use,
00:01:54 ◼ ► and we were going to get rid of the other car, but quite honestly, we love the car so much that
00:01:59 ◼ ► that wasn't going to happen, so Jamie drives the Civic around, and we- Lauren drives the Leaf
00:02:03 ◼ ► every day to work. She works in our town, and so the range doesn't matter. We take it whenever
00:02:10 ◼ ► we can, so within our county or, like, into San Francisco, we can take it. I will take it
00:02:17 ◼ ► at longer ranges if there's charging on the other end that I can count on, so I take it up to Petaluma
00:02:22 ◼ ► for Twit because there's an electric car charger across the street from the Twit offices that I use.
00:02:34 ◼ ► and the only challenge with it is because we were cheap and got an electric car for cheap,
00:02:40 ◼ ► it doesn't have much range, and so that does limit us. We have- that's why we still have the
00:02:46 ◼ ► minivan. The minivan doesn't get driven very much anymore, but it gets driven when we need to take
00:02:52 ◼ ► lots of people somewhere, or we need to load a bunch of stuff in the back because the seats fold
00:02:57 ◼ ► down, or if we need range, and then we take the minivan, but otherwise, it's the electric car.
00:03:02 ◼ ► It's great. I want all my vehicles to be electric, but that's not going to happen for quite a while,
00:03:06 ◼ ► probably, but for now, it's- I think it was a very, very good move to buy this used electric
00:03:15 ◼ ► car because it gives us the goodness of the electric car without a big cost and at a weird
00:03:24 ◼ ► time when we have this with the extra driver in the house. Also, it satiates some of my desire,
00:03:37 ◼ ► when they started aggressively marketing the Tesla 3, and a bunch of things happened with
00:03:46 ◼ ► different rebates and things like that. Anyway, there were several times where I thought to
00:03:49 ◼ ► myself, "You know, if I didn't have an electric car, I would be buying an electric car right now,"
00:03:59 ◼ ► Right. If you had never done it, you would have found it difficult to resist at that point.
00:04:03 ◼ ► Well, those cars are all like $30,000, $35,000, $40,000, and we bought ours for like $8,000 or
00:04:18 ◼ ► question. If you would like to help us open a future episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet
00:04:22 ◼ ► with the hashtag #snowtalk, and your question may be considered for future use. We should move on to
00:04:28 ◼ ► some follow-up. On Photoshop for the iPad, which we spoke about in Ask Upgrade last week, where is
00:04:33 ◼ ► it? Well, we heard from Upgrade J, who says that his team was told at Adobe Max that it's looking
00:04:39 ◼ ► like a fall 2019 release for the program, which we'd also kind of speculated as a possibility,
00:04:46 ◼ ► right, that it would be released later in the year, post iOS 13 coming out, right, because it's
00:04:54 ◼ ► like, "Oh, I bet there's some stuff in there that would be super useful to Adobe, but they can't
00:04:58 ◼ ► release it yet because of it." So, maybe that's it, or maybe Adobe's just taking their time.
00:05:04 ◼ ► But, yeah, Adobe seems to be telling people, if they ask at Adobe Max at least, the fall of this
00:05:10 ◼ ► year. Sounds good. Jason, you reviewed some new Kindles, and I wanted to ask you kind of like, one,
00:05:17 ◼ ► I don't know anything about these new Kindles, what makes these new Kindles new? And these
00:05:24 ◼ ► things just appear on six colors, and I never feel like I heard them before. And then I wanted
00:05:27 ◼ ► to kind of understand from you, considering there are a couple of new Kindles in the lineup,
00:05:36 ◼ ► All right, so the super short, the TLDR Kindle segment here. I like the Kindle because it's a
00:05:43 ◼ ► unitasker. It just is for reading. I don't get any push notifications. I don't have the temptation to
00:05:49 ◼ ► swipe over and check out Twitter. It is really great in bright sunlight. They all light themselves
00:05:57 ◼ ► now, so you can also read them in the dark, and that works too. I think it's a great product. I
00:06:08 ◼ ► somewhere without my Kindle, but otherwise, I won't do that. The new Kindles are the two
00:06:15 ◼ ► lower-end models. The high-end Oasis remains and will presumably be upgraded at a later date.
00:06:19 ◼ ► But the two new models, there's a new $90. That's the new base price. It's up from $80.
00:06:27 ◼ ► Kindle, but the new base model Kindle is the first base model to have. It's not backlighting,
00:06:34 ◼ ► it's lighting. It's like LEDs on the sides that kind of shoot out and light it because these are
00:06:38 ◼ ► reflective screens. They're like ink on paper, and so you can't shine something from the back,
00:06:43 ◼ ► but you can shine something from the sides, and it works pretty well. This is big because
00:06:47 ◼ ► up to now, the base Kindle, the cheap Kindle, couldn't light itself. It's been like seven years
00:07:00 ◼ ► electronic reading device that you have to clip a book light to in order to read it at night.
00:07:03 ◼ ► It's silly. So that's over now, which makes that base model, I think, much more capable. Still,
00:07:09 ◼ ► it feels cheap. It's cheap and yet more expensive than it used to be. But if you're somebody who is
00:07:17 ◼ ► kind of mildly interested in having a Kindle to keep around or take on a vacation or something
00:07:23 ◼ ► like that, this is the Casey Liss test, I would say. I always think about Casey because he's like,
00:07:29 ◼ ► "Well, I'm interested in a Kindle, but not most of the time, just occasionally on a vacation or
00:07:33 ◼ ► something." At least that Kindle, that cheap Kindle, now will light itself, which I think
00:07:39 ◼ ► is a big plus. It's not waterproof, though. I find in my life filtering a lot of my questions
00:07:44 ◼ ► around what would Casey want helps me. What would Casey do? Yeah. So the Kindle Paperwhite also got
00:07:49 ◼ ► an update. It's $130, so it's $40 more than the base model. And what you get with that is a much
00:07:55 ◼ ► better screen. The base model Kindle's got like a 160 DPI screen or something like that. In my
00:08:01 ◼ ► review, you can see it. It's lower contrast and the text is more jaggy. The Paperwhite, you get
00:08:07 ◼ ► basically retina-level text resolution, higher contrast. It's backlighting or side lighting is
00:08:16 ◼ ► better. It's waterproof and it doesn't have any bezel stuff. On the cheap model, the screen is
00:08:28 ◼ ► sunken beneath the bezel and a lot of detritus, a lot of dust and crumbs and junk get caught in
00:08:34 ◼ ► the corners. And the Paperwhite is flat all the way across now, which is really nice. That's a
00:08:40 ◼ ► much nicer feel. It's nicer. And if you love, love, love, love, love, love, love, Kindles,
00:08:47 ◼ ► then spend almost twice as much and get the Oasis because it's great. It's just way more expensive
00:08:52 ◼ ► than the Paperwhite. And I think most people should buy the Paperwhite if you're in the market
00:08:56 ◼ ► for a Kindle because it is with the waterproof and the flat front and the better backlighting and the
00:09:02 ◼ ► better display. I think it's still the sweet spot and it has been. However, that cheap Kindle is,
00:09:08 ◼ ► I think there's a much better case to be made for the cheap Kindle than before. Even though the
00:09:11 ◼ ► screen isn't as good, the resolution isn't as nice. If you don't care so much and you're either
00:09:16 ◼ ► not going to get a Kindle or you're going to get the cheapest one around, I'm more inclined to say
00:09:22 ◼ ► that people can get that one now that you can also read it in bad lighting or in the dark. That is a
00:09:28 ◼ ► big improvement. That's a huge improvement. That's the number one required feature of a Kindle. So
00:09:34 ◼ ► I'm glad they finally added it. I recently watched a video about E-Ink, which I found interesting.
00:09:41 ◼ ► I learned a bunch of stuff about E-Ink that I didn't know before. It's from a YouTube channel
00:09:45 ◼ ► called Technology Connections, which is a channel that Marco recommended, which I do really love.
00:09:51 ◼ ► So if you are interested in learning more about E-Ink in general, I'll put a link in the show
00:09:55 ◼ ► notes. It's an interesting video. The guy who hosts this channel, Technology Connections,
00:10:04 ◼ ► friends. He does an incredible job of making what should be incredibly boring things really
00:10:13 ◼ ► interesting. He's got a very, very good presentation style. That is an important skill.
00:10:20 ◼ ► Yeah, because the stuff that he talks about, right, like if you just look at his channel,
00:10:24 ◼ ► should be really boring, but he does it. He just presents everything in an incredibly good way.
00:10:30 ◼ ► He did this whole massive series about how laser displayers work. I don't know how much you could
00:10:39 ◼ ► get out of that, but really, really entertaining. Yeah, and E-Ink is a fascinating thing because it
00:10:43 ◼ ► is not like any other display technology. It is really emulating ink on paper. It's not just a
00:10:49 ◼ ► funny name. That's why it works the way it does where it's reflective, where it is like the light
00:10:56 ◼ ► comes down and hits the surface and reflects back in and that's how you see it as opposed to OLED
00:11:02 ◼ ► or backlighting where the light is coming out of the display at you instead of originating in the
00:11:08 ◼ ► display instead of sort of bouncing off and coming up to your eyes. That's one of the things I like
00:11:12 ◼ ► about it. I think the E-Ink displays are great for reading text on a page, which is what I use
00:11:18 ◼ ► a Kindle for. Apple and Qualcomm had been in some kind of legal battle over patents and payments and
00:11:27 ◼ ► all this kind of stuff for a while. And fried chicken, don't forget fried chicken. Yep, and
00:11:31 ◼ ► this is not a thing that we tend to cover on the show. I mean, mostly because I don't think... So,
00:11:39 ◼ ► I never put it in the show because I don't think I can make an interesting discussion out of that
00:11:44 ◼ ► type of stuff. So, that's why we don't talk about it, but they settled now. I think we may have
00:11:49 ◼ ► talked about it at one point just in the idea of like, is 5G going to come to the iPhone and when
00:11:53 ◼ ► is it going to come to the iPhone? Because there was a whole period there where they flew journalists
00:11:59 ◼ ► out to Hawaii and did this whole demo of 5G. You know, I actually think we have yet to speak about
00:12:05 ◼ ► this. Yeah, and I might have talked about it on Download. I wrote a piece about it a while ago for
00:12:08 ◼ ► Tom's Guide too where I said essentially, I wonder if I talked about this with John Siracusa back in
00:12:13 ◼ ► December. I wonder if I did that and when you weren't around. Like, "Scone, we can talk about
00:12:17 ◼ ► modems." That's when it's been spoken about on this show. You spoke a little bit about it.
00:12:21 ◼ ► And I have notes that at some point I want to talk about 5G on this show. So, everybody, welcome to
00:12:28 ◼ ► our new segment, Myke and the Modems, where every week we're going to talk about modems with Myke
00:12:32 ◼ ► Hurley. I'm hearing that Myke Hurley has just left the show. Well, anyway, the important point here
00:12:39 ◼ ► is that Apple has been in a patent dispute with Qualcomm for a long time, and last week they
00:12:45 ◼ ► settled. And nobody really knows why, but it has to do with Intel. It sounds like either Intel said,
00:12:52 ◼ ► "We're not going to be able to do 5G modems anytime soon. It keeps slipping. You're probably not going
00:12:58 ◼ ► to be able to ship it until 2021." That's a long ways away, right? Like, 2021. We're not talking
00:13:03 ◼ ► about this fall's iPhones. We're talking about next fall's iPhones not having the 5G networking
00:13:08 ◼ ► because of Intel. It's also possible that what Intel said was, "Hey, we have a new CEO, and we've
00:13:14 ◼ ► looked at this business, and it doesn't make any sense to have you as a client. So, go get your
00:13:18 ◼ ► modem somewhere else. We're going to shut her down." Right? We don't know which order maybe that
00:13:25 ◼ ► happened, but regardless, it's sort of about Intel's either unwillingness or inability to ship
00:13:29 ◼ ► these modems. Intel shut down its modem business last week in the aftermath of the Apple Qualcomm
00:13:41 ◼ ► all the deals. They will presumably come out in time. But a trial started in San Diego. They got
00:13:48 ◼ ► through a morning where there was a labored fried chicken metaphor about how patents are like fried
00:13:53 ◼ ► chicken. I don't really want to get into it. It was hilariously weird. And then suddenly, they
00:13:58 ◼ ► settled. And so, it sounds like in the background, Apple has been negotiating for a little while with
00:14:02 ◼ ► Qualcomm about a settlement, which usually happens before the trial starts. But it actually happened
00:14:07 ◼ ► on day one of the trial. I would expect that everybody, they had the conversations, right?
00:14:12 ◼ ► Apple knew what Qualcomm wanted. Apple weren't happy, but they knew the terms. And then when
00:14:17 ◼ ► Intel, my expectation is that Intel said to them, "We can't do this." So then Apple were like,
00:14:23 ◼ ► "Well, damn it. At least we know what Qualcomm wants." Yeah. Well, there was that Fast Company
00:14:27 ◼ ► story that Mark Sullivan wrote a little while ago that was pretty good that basically said,
00:14:32 ◼ ► "Apple's between a rock and a hard place here because they're not talking to Qualcomm and
00:14:35 ◼ ► Intel's dates are slipping." And beyond a certain point, Intel is saying, "We can't get you a modem
00:14:42 ◼ ► for the iPhone in 2020." And if you're Apple, you're like, "This is not going to work."
00:14:47 ◼ ► Because they're essentially, you know how Apple hates being tied to one supplier for anything.
00:14:51 ◼ ► Because of their dispute with Qualcomm, they only have one supplier and it was Intel. There
00:14:56 ◼ ► was a quick solution there, which is to settle with Qualcomm. And then you've got the patent
00:15:00 ◼ ► holder and also the supplier of the modems that everybody else is using more or less. And so they
00:15:06 ◼ ► made that deal and they paid them money and they licensed their patents and Qualcomm is going to
00:15:10 ◼ ► supply modems for future iPhones. Probably not this year, although it's not entirely impossible,
00:15:15 ◼ ► but probably next year for a 5G iPhone. The 5G tech is also really early and not rolled out very
00:15:21 ◼ ► many places and it's going to be a long rollout. So my Tom's Guide piece a few months ago was
00:15:26 ◼ ► basically like, "It's not a big deal if the iPhone doesn't have 5G in 2019." It's sort of like how the
00:15:31 ◼ ► original iPhone didn't have 3G. It was early days. It wasn't a huge deal. Going into 2021,
00:15:39 ◼ ► still not having one, not so great, right? I mean, it will become a marketing liability if nothing
00:15:44 ◼ ► else. So this gets them with the patents of Qualcomm and working with Qualcomm in the short
00:15:52 ◼ ► term. And presumably in the long term, Apple's plan is still to build its own modems, but it
00:15:58 ◼ ► will have access to the patents. It will have a licensing regime for Qualcomm's patents that they
00:16:03 ◼ ► would use in building those modems. And I've even seen speculation that it's unclear if perhaps
00:16:11 ◼ ► Apple might be interested in buying some of the assets from Intel since Intel is getting out of
00:16:17 ◼ ► the modem business and Apple is getting into it. But I think that's just been speculation.
00:16:23 ◼ ► So anyway, basically what this means is that Apple is returning to the premier provider of modems in
00:16:31 ◼ ► cellular devices and they've settled, for huge amounts of money, they have settled all of their
00:16:38 ◼ ► lawsuits against one another, that they have been, they had a long falling out that is now over.
00:16:49 ◼ ► licensing agreement. So at some point they will be able to make their own chips if they want to.
00:16:56 ◼ ► - Which they do. Well, in the short term, the key part is that they're gonna be able to use Qualcomm.
00:17:02 ◼ ► - Yep. Yeah, it's true. And I just, as a little aside here, boy, Intel, right? Like, okay.
00:17:17 ◼ ► but they have issues on PC, they have issues with GPUs. They're like, it's not a great time.
00:17:25 ◼ ► This is the kind of thing that happens where the very slowly over time, the previously impossible
00:17:32 ◼ ► to stop monolith in some industry, you know, becomes mortal. And, you know, they made a series
00:17:42 ◼ ► of bad steps that the new CEO has inherited and is trying to fix. And that's why I think it's
00:17:49 ◼ ► entirely possible that this all started with the new CEO saying, look, we're not gonna do this.
00:17:54 ◼ ► We give up because we're not just gonna, you know, Apple's business isn't big enough to keep us in
00:17:59 ◼ ► this business. And we have bigger fish to fry, honestly, somewhere else, because they're in
00:18:06 ◼ ► like, if you don't pay too much attention to it, like, whilst with our Apple computers,
00:18:11 ◼ ► Intel was the only supplier for the chips that we use in them, that is not the case in the PC world,
00:18:16 ◼ ► right? Like, you can get an AMD processor, or they have actual competition, credible competition,
00:18:22 ◼ ► on the other side of things, and they're starting to fall behind in a bunch of different ways for
00:18:27 ◼ ► the future. It's like a way people will talk about Microsoft, and I've spoken about Microsoft for
00:18:32 ◼ ► years, right? Microsoft are perfectly fine where they are right now, but they're not at the
00:18:38 ◼ ► forefront of anything, and that's a problem. - Yeah, except that they are making headway in
00:18:44 ◼ ► - Yeah, I'm thinking maybe more, kind of, sorry, I should have rephrased that a little bit,
00:18:56 ◼ ► And there are no answers, and Microsoft has managed to navigate that, and that does feel
00:19:01 ◼ ► like that's kind of where Intel is, but there was a time when Wintel was impossible to stop,
00:19:11 ◼ ► - Myke at the Modems, everyone's favorite news segment. Now we will move on to everyone's actual
00:19:18 ◼ ► favorite segment, which is upstream, where we look at news and streaming media, and I have a couple
00:19:21 ◼ ► of things for you this week, Jason. Hulu has bought back AT&T's 10% stake in the company.
00:19:27 ◼ ► Now this is kind of confusing, took me a minute to get my head around this. So Hulu, the company,
00:19:41 ◼ ► and that has to be worked out between Disney and Comcast how that 10% is gonna be split up.
00:19:50 ◼ ► and what that would mean is that Disney owns two-thirds of Hulu and Comcast owns one-third,
00:19:54 ◼ ► but in talking to people who are more closely reporting on this, what I have heard is that
00:19:59 ◼ ► it's a little more complicated. That seems the most logical outcome, but it may be that there
00:20:04 ◼ ► are actually rules in Hulu's rulebook for investors that provide one of the investors an option
00:20:13 ◼ ► to buy that out and the other ones to choose. So there may be a choice involved. So for example,
00:20:29 ◼ ► Or maybe it's that Disney gets to say, no, no, no, we're gonna just put in and we're gonna take
00:20:34 ◼ ► this whole 10%. Or maybe it's just a very simple kind of like, we bought it back, it's a share
00:20:39 ◼ ► buyback, that 10% disappears and you go from owning 30% to owning 33.3%, and you go from owning 60%
00:20:48 ◼ ► Disney to owning 66.6%. But regardless, it means there are now only two players. This AT&T thing
00:20:55 ◼ ► was this weird outstanding bit. - Yeah, it was inevitable that it was going to happen. It was
00:21:01 ◼ ► just about when and how. - Because it's not part of their strategy at all. Whereas Comcast,
00:21:06 ◼ ► it's unclear. What I've heard, the analysis that I've heard is that, although it would seem obvious
00:21:13 ◼ ► that Disney would buy out Comcast share in Hulu and just take it over completely, that Disney
00:21:18 ◼ ► can't, by having a seat on the board, even though they're not the majority stake, the way that Hulu's
00:21:23 ◼ ► bylaws are written, Comcast gets a say in how Hulu is run, which is interesting. It means Comcast
00:21:29 ◼ ► gets a view into Disney's streaming business at Hulu, which is also really interesting. So there's
00:21:36 ◼ ► this question of, at what point do they want to not be in bed with Disney, their arch competitor,
00:21:40 ◼ ► anymore? And until that point, do they want to keep Hulu because it already exists, it's where
00:21:47 ◼ ► their shows are, it's part of their strategy too, and they can watch Disney at work in the meantime.
00:21:53 ◼ ► But it's hard to believe. They said they're going to launch their own streaming service in early
00:21:57 ◼ ► 2020. It's hard to believe that in the long run Comcast is going to want to stay with Hulu because
00:22:04 ◼ ► they're going to have another service that they want to feed content into, and this one,
00:22:08 ◼ ► they're a minority stakeholder to their arch rival. I really, I mean, just my take on it,
00:22:14 ◼ ► which is based on no real knowledge, it just feels to me it's like Comcast will run this out until
00:22:20 ◼ ► they can get the most money out of Disney possible. Because as this continues, everybody knows
00:22:25 ◼ ► Disney's plans for Hulu, because Disney's told people what their plans are, and I feel like
00:22:35 ◼ ► as this is where we put all the stuff we can't show to kids. I think that they want it.
00:22:39 ◼ ► But if you're NBCUniversal and you've got your catalog of content and you are launching your
00:22:45 ◼ ► own streaming service, at some point the pressure to leave is that you need to get your stuff off
00:22:51 ◼ ► of Hulu and put it on your own thing. AT&T leaving made a lot of sense because they're doing their
00:22:55 ◼ ► own thing and they also need the money, because AT&T have a lot of debt, and that's basically
00:22:59 ◼ ► what they've said. They're going to use the money and they're just going to pay off some debts with
00:23:02 ◼ ► it. And also, at 10%, they had no real say, and you're just going to have these two big,
00:23:08 ◼ ► huge companies, Disney and Comcast, probably fighting for the next five years. It was probably
00:23:12 ◼ ► worth AT&T's time to just take the money and run while it was valuable. But yeah, this is very
00:23:19 ◼ ► clear that Disney wants this. This is another step in making it easier for them, but they do not have
00:23:25 ◼ ► an easy road ahead because Comcast is giving no indication that they want to sell. So it's a
00:23:31 ◼ ► negotiation, I think, that is happening, and whether it's active or not, that is basically
00:23:35 ◼ ► the idea. It's like, how much is it worth to Disney? How much is it worth to Comcast? But I do
00:23:41 ◼ ► think Disney knows that there's a ticking clock because Disney knows that Comcast needs to launch
00:23:46 ◼ ► its own thing, and Disney is willing, with all the stuff that they've bought from Fox, they have
00:23:51 ◼ ► so much content that Hulu has to exist for them. Comcast is not really in that same situation.
00:23:58 ◼ ► They're going to launch something that is appreciably similar to Hulu, and they're going
00:24:01 ◼ ► to need content for it. So, you know, Disney, Comcast wants to escalate in terms of the price
00:24:08 ◼ ► that it gets out of Disney, and Disney knows there's a ticking clock, and we'll see who blinks
00:24:14 ◼ ► first. In some, I think, fantastic news, YouTube has ordered the Retro Tech series from Marques
00:24:22 ◼ ► Brownlee. After a successful pilot, which featured Marques looking at the Game Boy on the Game Boy's
00:24:28 ◼ ► 30th anniversary, which is actually available, you can watch it right now on MKBHD's YouTube channel,
00:24:33 ◼ ► they have gone ahead and ordered a season of this show, it was basically a pilot, in which he will
00:24:38 ◼ ► effectively unbox and review classic technology products. The show is being produced in collaboration
00:24:44 ◼ ► with MKBHD and Vox Media, and will debut in 2019 on MKBHD's YouTube channel. This is not, even though
00:24:52 ◼ ► this isn't a YouTube original series, it is not going to be a part of any of YouTube's premium
00:24:57 ◼ ► efforts. This will just be on MKBHD's channel. But this is a restructuring of what YouTube is doing in
00:25:05 ◼ ► the original space. They've basically gutted YouTube Premium of the content that they were
00:25:11 ◼ ► making and buying, they're keeping around some successful stuff, and they're putting more money
00:25:15 ◼ ► into education and music. I am pleased that this is a sign that YouTubers realised what their actual
00:25:23 ◼ ► asset is, which is YouTubers, not celebrities. Like this is a, I think, positive sign. Because I would
00:25:30 ◼ ► have been very happy as a YouTube Premium subscriber to pay for this, like to have this show,
00:25:35 ◼ ► or I would have signed up for MKBHD's show if I hadn't already. So it's interesting to me that they
00:25:40 ◼ ► are making it available for free when it clearly would have been a good show that people would want
00:25:45 ◼ ► to pay for. But I am just pleased to see YouTube going back to realising what they actually have
00:25:50 ◼ ► that other people don't have. Yeah, imagine YouTube paying money to YouTubers to make more content for
00:25:57 ◼ ► their YouTube channels. Can you imagine? Instead of, you know, paying for scripted TV that's behind it,
00:26:03 ◼ ► yeah. So I think it's great, plus I love MKBHD and this series is awesome. MKBHD is great. And I just
00:26:10 ◼ ► want to see him succeed because he's so cool and I'm a big fan of his. And so yeah, it was just
00:26:14 ◼ ► great. I loved the thing because he'd never played a game, he'd never played a Game Boy before,
00:26:25 ◼ ► very good video. Lots of interviews and stuff. It's really well made. And it's kind of funny to
00:26:31 ◼ ► me because I look at it and it's like, I bet they did, YouTube didn't even need to spend that much
00:26:36 ◼ ► money on this because he already has all the setup, right? Sure. He makes these incredibly
00:26:43 ◼ ► well. I'm sure that I would like to think that he got a good deal out of it, but it's not like they
00:26:49 ◼ ► needed to hire a specific crew, I would assume, right? Or like they didn't need to build sets
00:26:55 ◼ ► because he has it all. It's just like, this is what makes sense, right? If you're YouTube,
00:27:00 ◼ ► this is way cheaper than Cobra Kai is, right? And probably is going to do better for you in the long
00:27:06 ◼ ► run. So I'm pleased to see this. This is what it started as. And then YouTube got high on its own
00:27:13 ◼ ► supply and thought that they could be Disney or whatever, right? Like, oh, we'll just pay a bunch
00:27:18 ◼ ► of celebrities to make a bunch of stuff and we'll buy movies. And it didn't work. So I hope that
00:27:23 ◼ ► this will work for them. And this is like a re-scheduling, like a refocusing of what they're
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00:29:46 ◼ ► So Jason, last week when we spoke about Guillermo Rambo's leaks about iOS 13, little did we know
00:30:02 ◼ ► So not to reveal too much behind the curtain, but after our episode dropped, I got a Twitter DM from
00:30:12 ◼ ► I will say, I tip my cap to Guillermo Rambo and 9to5Mac for doing this. I think this was genius.
00:30:26 ◼ ► It would have been very easy for them to write a huge whiz-bang story with a bunch of interesting
00:30:32 ◼ ► layout, and be like, "Oh, look at this. We have all the details." But instead, they have just been
00:30:38 ◼ ► pumping out stories, and it was like, still happy. I think there was still one yesterday. I don't
00:30:43 ◼ ► think there's been anything today. Maybe that's it. Last time I checked. Maybe it's every day
00:30:48 ◼ ► between now and WWDC. I don't know. It's just like a little tidbit. Eventually, they just
00:30:52 ◼ ► start publishing one word a day as we get into June, and then you can just build up to a big
00:30:57 ◼ ► story. So what we're going to do is I want to touch on all of these stories, just so we've got
00:31:02 ◼ ► like a full, complete system. Some of them we're not going to talk about in detail because they're
00:31:06 ◼ ► effectively a week old. You've heard them in other places, but there might be a few things we want to
00:31:10 ◼ ► touch on within them. And then there is some stuff which I don't think either of us have had the
00:31:17 ◼ ► opportunity to talk about at all yet. So I think we're going to go chronologically with these,
00:31:24 ◼ ► and we'll start with a "Find My Friends" revamp. So creating a new app to merge "Find My iPhone"
00:31:30 ◼ ► and "Find My Friends" to put them all into one place. Apple will look to increase the app's
00:31:35 ◼ ► overall functionality. Makes sense, I think, to have all of this stuff in one place. I didn't
00:31:40 ◼ ► realize that it was weird that they weren't until I saw this story. It's like, "Oh, they probably
00:31:44 ◼ ► all should be in the same application." Right? Yeah. Yeah. It always feels weird to me when
00:31:48 ◼ ► we have something that's like, "Where is this particular device located?" And I have to open
00:31:54 ◼ ► "Find My Phone" because I usually, you know, we use "Find Friends" to keep track of like our family
00:32:01 ◼ ► members and other people. But "Find My Friends," there's a primary location device that is attached
00:32:10 ◼ ► to each Apple ID. Whereas "Find My iPhone" is device-based. So one of the things they'll have
00:32:17 ◼ ► to do if they merge these together is kind of create the scenario where you've got like a person
00:32:21 ◼ ► and where they are, and then also like within that where you're, if it's one of your people,
00:32:27 ◼ ► where the devices are. So there's complexity here because they were really made for two
00:32:31 ◼ ► very different reasons, but I agree that it's dumb to have two different things that are doing
00:32:39 ◼ ► largely the same thing with, you know, there's reasons why they are the way they are, but
00:32:43 ◼ ► having it all in one place makes sense because it is very weird. I used "Find My Friends" so
00:32:47 ◼ ► often and it is very strange to be like, "Oh, I need to find where my wife's iPad is." Right?
00:32:54 ◼ ► And that's not her primary location device, so "Find My Friends" isn't going to do it. But
00:32:58 ◼ ► "Find My iPhone," I can find the iPad's location. I can, you know, lock it. I can send, you know,
00:33:04 ◼ ► make it make a loud noise so that we can find it, which is the killer feature there. And so that'll
00:33:16 ◼ ► it also mentions the possibility of Apple creating a Bluetooth-enabled tracking device like a tile.
00:33:22 ◼ ► So like these are these little, it's a little called tracker. They're like these little things
00:33:26 ◼ ► of basic hearing sides that have got Bluetooth low energy chips in them so you can help find your
00:33:30 ◼ ► devices. So in theory, you could attach the Apple version of this to anything, any product, and then
00:33:37 ◼ ► it would be showing up in this application. Do you think that this is a product that Apple would
00:33:42 ◼ ► actually make? I'm wondering if this code name is referring to an internal device that they have made
00:33:52 ◼ ► to test an API to make available for HomeKit-like devices. Yeah, I, if they're not, I think I said
00:33:59 ◼ ► this on another podcast last week, but forgive me for repeating myself, but if they're not
00:34:05 ◼ ► going to make airport base stations, why are they going to make NFC Bluetooth LE tags, right? Like,
00:34:17 ◼ ► wouldn't it be better to have a certification program and some hardware partners? This makes
00:34:22 ◼ ► a lot of sense as a HomeKit product to me. Right? Like, you would say to companies like Tile,
00:34:28 ◼ ► you can keep doing your thing, but you can also integrate with us now. And then you're going to
00:34:34 ◼ ► have all the features that a HomeKit app, or HomeKit thing would get. But I don't know. I
00:34:40 ◼ ► don't know, for this thing specifically, I don't know exactly what Gee Rambo knows. Right? So like
00:34:47 ◼ ► in the report is the company is working on a new hardware product known only as B389 by the people
00:34:52 ◼ ► involved in its development. But I don't know what that means, right? Like, yeah, they could actually
00:35:00 ◼ ► be working on a new hardware product, but it doesn't mean that it's ever intended to ship
00:35:04 ◼ ► unless he knows that that's the case. But if he does, he does not state that in the article,
00:35:08 ◼ ► right? Like there is no definitive thing of whether this does or does not exist for the public
00:35:20 ◼ ► but I can read this in a couple of different ways. It could also be that they, I think two
00:35:25 ◼ ► possibilities here. One is they've got a hardware partner and it's a little bit like how there were
00:35:29 ◼ ► those Logitech things that came out for the smart keyboard on day one. Or the pencil thing, the
00:35:35 ◼ ► crown. Yeah, exactly. So there are companies where Apple has worked with them in advance with
00:35:41 ◼ ► technology, right? Like it's not the case that new tech from Apple is always just unveiled with
00:35:46 ◼ ► nobody knowing about it. That does happen, but it doesn't always happen. And you would expect
00:35:50 ◼ ► Apple has their own hardware team that works on that alongside the external partners as well,
00:35:55 ◼ ► right? I also think that it's not impossible that sometimes, and I don't know this for a fact,
00:36:01 ◼ ► but I'll just throw it out there, that sometimes Apple builds a reference piece of hardware.
00:36:05 ◼ ► It would not surprise me if they handed that to a partner and said, look, we built what we think is
00:36:13 ◼ ► the fundamental hardware for this product. Here, we don't want to make it. You make it.
00:36:20 ◼ ► I don't know whether they like literally hand a product to Logitech and say, if you want to make
00:36:25 ◼ ► this, go ahead, we're not going to make it. Or whether they just say, can you come in and look
00:36:30 ◼ ► at this spec and work with us on something. But the result is very similar, which means that Apple
00:36:36 ◼ ► wouldn't necessarily have to make it if they don't want to be in the business of making this product.
00:36:40 ◼ ► I think the question is, is there a standard here or is this just going to be like, it only works
00:36:45 ◼ ► with Apple products? Because if there's an existing standard, sometimes they could use that and kind
00:36:49 ◼ ► of subvert it. I think Bluetooth, it's using Bluetooth LE, right? Presumably to do all of this.
00:36:53 ◼ ► Yeah. So the other big thing about this is that you remember from like tile and things like that,
00:37:07 ◼ ► like if you lose your bag at the airport, but somebody else is there with the tile app or
00:37:12 ◼ ► whatever it is, it can see it. And then it uploads it to the server and says, oh, I saw that thing
00:37:17 ◼ ► here at this time. That's like building this big mesh network, basically. So even though it's like
00:37:22 ◼ ► by Bluetooth, right? In theory, you can still find the device if you're outside of range.
00:37:26 ◼ ► Right. And it still could be privacy because it's like, it's just an ID. I spot it at a place,
00:37:31 ◼ ► it gets uploaded to a server and then only the people with that ID can see that information.
00:37:35 ◼ ► But, you know, if you sell a few thousand of something, that network is super spotty and not
00:37:42 ◼ ► very good. And it's like, you got to be really lucky. But if every iPhone running iOS 13,
00:37:48 ◼ ► a billion, a billion GPS on these things, right? Because the iPhones that have GPS will see them,
00:37:57 ◼ ► log them and send them back and suddenly you'll know where your device is. That's really that
00:38:02 ◼ ► competitive advantage is a reason for them to make it. Right. And it's not a new idea at all,
00:38:07 ◼ ► but it's an idea that works way better if you're Apple than if you're a little scrappy third party.
00:38:12 ◼ ► Yep. Because you would assume these little things start screaming in Bluetooth language to anything
00:38:16 ◼ ► around them. Right. And then it can pass the information back to you somehow like that.
00:38:21 ◼ ► But my gut feeling is that Apple's not going to make this thing, right? Like I just, I feel like,
00:38:25 ◼ ► why would they do it? They'll, they'll, they'll say, Hey, it uses the spec. Here's how you build
00:38:30 ◼ ► these things. Here's our hardware partners. Good luck. That makes way more sense to me, but,
00:38:34 ◼ ► but we'll say, I mean, it's a product that they would easily be able to sell to pretty much every
00:38:38 ◼ ► iPhone owner. I mean, I don't know, right? Like this is, this is that question of like,
00:38:42 ◼ ► is Apple in 2019 exactly the company we think they are because yes, it feels like that they
00:38:47 ◼ ► wouldn't make that, but they also could make that if they wanted to make a bunch of money from
00:38:57 ◼ ► And only secondarily, is it a feature for other things? So what they do is they build this thing
00:39:02 ◼ ► and they say, well, look, using all of this tech, including Bluetooth LE on our, you know, on
00:39:08 ◼ ► AirPods and on all of our devices that we make, we have the ability to do this. And if some other
00:39:17 ◼ ► products or whether they're like other products like headphones or whatever, or whether it's a
00:39:22 ◼ ► thing that you stick on something, if they want to follow our rules, it will also work for those
00:39:27 ◼ ► right where the primary goal is to make it better to find your AirPods. But the secondary goal is
00:39:33 ◼ ► you can use this tech with partners to find other things that, that sounds like a way that Apple
00:39:39 ◼ ► might differentiate it and say like, we don't really want to be in the business of selling
00:39:42 ◼ ► little Bluetooth tags and supporting them and all of those things, but we want it for this.
00:39:47 ◼ ► And this enables that. So the other thing was lunar display like functionalities. And it's
00:39:53 ◼ ► the headline, Codename Sidecar, this macOS functionality would allow for a user to be able
00:39:59 ◼ ► to quote, "Send any window of an app to an external display." The external display can be an actual
00:40:06 ◼ ► external display connected to the Mac or even an iPad. So this will be built into existing,
00:40:16 ◼ ► view to either send an app to full screen to tile it. So you can split it up with other apps on the
00:40:21 ◼ ► Mac or send to an external display. I'm... Lunar display is a thing. Okay, probably should say here,
00:40:30 ◼ ► lunar display, existing sponsor of Relay FM, future sponsor of this show, you know, like just
00:40:35 ◼ ► make that point abundantly clear. I feel like for me, this is an easy way to describe it. I
00:40:42 ◼ ► don't think it's going to be like lunar display. We're like a lunar display is mirroring a display
00:40:46 ◼ ► I don't, it doesn't feel like that to me. To me, this feels like if you make a marzipan app
00:40:50 ◼ ► and you can, it's like beefing up continuity in some way that you can send the window that you're
00:40:57 ◼ ► looking at to another device. But I don't feel like it'd be mirroring it. Like it would, you would
00:41:02 ◼ ► just send it there. I don't know. What do you think? Tell me what you think. So, so the way
00:41:05 ◼ ► lunar display and a lot of these other screen sharing apps work is that they're emulating a
00:41:09 ◼ ► monitor. They're emulating an external display. And so you, you know, like I've got one running
00:41:14 ◼ ► right now actually, and I've got Audio Hijack and Skype on my old iPad. But I've got it on the left
00:41:20 ◼ ► side. I can't put it on the right side because that's where my dock is. And it would affect the
00:41:25 ◼ ► geometry of my, of my desktop setup. And it can't, it can only be in horizontal. It can't be in
00:41:30 ◼ ► vertical because lunar display doesn't support that. There's like all of these little quirks
00:41:34 ◼ ► about it. Some of which are because it's a full-on emulated display. The Mac thinks another display,
00:41:40 ◼ ► hardware display is attached, which is not quite it. So what I, when I look at this, I think,
00:41:45 ◼ ► well, this is interesting because this is maybe what Apple is going to do is take Mac OS and sort
00:41:49 ◼ ► of abstract the concept and potentially iOS too, I will say. Abstract the concept of external view
00:41:58 ◼ ► ports from the base concept of a plugged in external display, or at least change the way
00:42:05 ◼ ► it, it, it handles that stuff. This is sort of how I read this. Like the idea that you're sending
00:42:10 ◼ ► a window, like I can drag a window onto an external display and hit the full screen today.
00:42:16 ◼ ► So I'm sort of viewing this as being something like, yeah, like you said continuity, like
00:42:19 ◼ ► using things like continuity to make it easier in the UI, however, it's implemented behind the
00:42:26 ◼ ► scenes to say, Hey, this audio hijack window, uh, send it over there or this, uh, Photoshop window,
00:42:33 ◼ ► send it to that iPad. And then I can draw on it with my Apple pencil and I'm not running
00:42:37 ◼ ► Photoshop on the iPad. I'm running it on the Mac. And that's what Luna display was built for. Right.
00:42:41 ◼ ► Is it's built out of a company that was the whole idea there was to make, uh, you know,
00:42:46 ◼ ► use these great high resolution touch devices with stylus support functional with Mac software. So
00:42:54 ◼ ► it feels like, you know, maybe that's what it's going to is just like, how can we make this
00:42:59 ◼ ► experience better with external devices with the idea being that an iPad could make a great
00:43:06 ◼ ► companion for a Mac, but right now it's a mess because you have to add third party software and
00:43:13 ◼ ► sometimes hardware. And, you know, then you're in this situation where the Mac thinks it's a
00:43:17 ◼ ► whole monitor, which is probably not the fundamental use case where you just want to send a window.
00:43:22 ◼ ► So, I mean, we'll see the devil's in the details here, but it sounds like what bottom line is Apple
00:43:28 ◼ ► is trying to make an effort to make it easier to push bits of the Mac out onto external displays,
00:43:40 ◼ ► Sherlocking standpoint, I w I wanted to mention, um, a lot of people are like, oh, watch out Luna
00:43:45 ◼ ► display. And it's like, I don't know, you know, the history of Apple doing features like this is
00:43:48 ◼ ► that they, they have a core feature that they want to hit that they think will appeal to a larger
00:43:52 ◼ ► mass of people. And then everybody else who has particular needs will be dissatisfied with it and
00:43:57 ◼ ► we'll go on using third party versions like that. That seems to be what always happens.
00:44:08 ◼ ► like an app at a time from Apple's feature where on Luna display, you could just make it look like
00:44:13 ◼ ► a completely external display. I would be surprised to see Apple be like your iPad is now just an
00:44:18 ◼ ► external display for your Mac. Cause I feel like from Apple's perspective, they may consider that
00:44:23 ◼ ► of like devaluing the iPad. Right. But you can send a document or, or an app or to it also.
00:44:30 ◼ ► And I mentioned this when I said maybe from iOS too, and this came up in the chat room as well,
00:44:34 ◼ ► like the logical extension of this, and this isn't in gear Rambo's report. So maybe it's something
00:44:44 ◼ ► Patice, who has that 4k display that he attaches his iPad to this tech would work on the iPad
00:44:50 ◼ ► theoretically to the idea that you could take an app and say, put that over on that screen,
00:44:56 ◼ ► which is weird and not, you know, if it's not a touch screen, there's questions about like how
00:45:00 ◼ ► that would be supported. Although there might be some answers there, but it's possible that you
00:45:05 ◼ ► could get something beyond mirroring from iOS as well. Or even if you've got two iPads, I don't
00:45:11 ◼ ► know. Right. Like why would you do that? I don't know. I'm just throwing out there that this might
00:45:16 ◼ ► everything, every Mac feature we hear about now, I feel like we have to say, this has gotta be the
00:45:20 ◼ ► equivalent of an iOS feature down the road because that is where Apple's coming with this.
00:45:29 ◼ ► something that Federico spoke about on connected last week, which is that he had heard that
00:45:35 ◼ ► Apple is looking to potentially bring some way to support mice input, like cursor input on iOS.
00:45:43 ◼ ► And that there's been some evidence of this. There are actually some devices, some accessibility
00:45:47 ◼ ► devices that can already do it, but making this basically available to anyone. If you can connect
00:45:51 ◼ ► a mouse that ties in here, right? Like imagine if you would send your iPad screen to an external
00:45:58 ◼ ► display more easily, you should be using a mouse. I've seen Federico use, he sent me videos and
00:46:04 ◼ ► stuff, and he's put these in articles of him using his iPad with the external display support that it
00:46:09 ◼ ► has. And it doesn't seem like, for me, you're still having to look down at the display.
00:46:13 ◼ ► - Yeah. You can write on it, but then the moment you need to interact, you have to interact with
00:46:18 ◼ ► the iPad laying in front of you instead of the screen that you've been looking at all along.
00:46:22 ◼ ► And yeah, Federico, that was a nice little bit of knowledge that he dropped after kind of holding
00:46:28 ◼ ► it in reserve for a while. The idea that it might be an accessibility feature, which would be,
00:46:33 ◼ ► I've said all along, the people who want this really want it, and you don't have to force it
00:46:38 ◼ ► on anyone else. And I don't think Apple ever would be like, "Well, we've got mouse support,
00:46:41 ◼ ► so now everybody must use a mouse." That's not gonna happen. So one of the great ways to do it
00:46:51 ◼ ► get a little prompt that says, 'Do you want to turn on this feature?' But nobody's gonna use it,
00:46:55 ◼ ► or most people aren't gonna use it." And everybody else will be like, "I'm turning that on right now,
00:46:59 ◼ ► the people who care." And it's fine. Having it be not the default and that you have to flip a switch
00:47:04 ◼ ► to make it work. I think everybody who's ever said, "I want external device pointing device
00:47:08 ◼ ► support," is happy to flip a switch in setting somewhere to do it. Like, it doesn't need to be
00:47:15 ◼ ► something that everybody is given as a default. It just needs to be available. And then, yes,
00:47:22 ◼ ► then you send things to a big screen, you attach a big screen to an iPad, and you can have that
00:47:29 ◼ ► context switch. Plus, if this feature were there, you could still have a little, like, have your
00:47:33 ◼ ► Twitter on your iPad, and then have the thing you're working on on your 4K display, and that
00:47:40 ◼ ► would actually work, which is fascinating. So, we'll see. Strange times. Apple Watch authentication
00:47:47 ◼ ► enhancements. There aren't too many details in this report other than to say that you'll be able
00:47:52 ◼ ► to do more with the authentication of the Apple Watch on your Mac. It's referred to as other
00:47:57 ◼ ► functions. I kind of wanted to ask you, Jason, if you, from your knowledge of if you use this,
00:48:03 ◼ ► and I saw that on Six Colors you were saying that you do use this feature. Where is it lacking that
00:48:08 ◼ ► Touch ID can currently do? And, like, do you imagine Apple bringing those two things closer
00:48:14 ◼ ► together? I think the way to think of it is where does Touch ID work now if you've got a laptop with
00:48:19 ◼ ► Touch ID? Because I don't. Well, I do. There are a couple MacBook Airs in the house, and Lauren uses
00:48:26 ◼ ► hers, and the other one I use, and the kids use a little bit, and Touch ID is great, right? Touch ID
00:48:32 ◼ ► is the best. And I think it gets lost with — Touch ID kind of came out at the same time that people
00:48:36 ◼ ► were getting the new keyboard, and they were getting the Touch Bar, and those were both very
00:48:39 ◼ ► controversial. But Touch ID on the Mac, it's great. It could be better, but it's great that
00:48:44 ◼ ► it's there. I love being on MacBook Air and going to 1Password and just using my finger, right? Like,
00:48:51 ◼ ► all that biometric authentication stuff is great. But on desktop Macs or Macs that don't have Touch
00:48:58 ◼ ► ID, it's, you know, it's not that great. But I can use my watch to do Apple Pay and to wake my
00:49:05 ◼ ► iMac from sleep without a password. So there's a little bit there, but what it doesn't do is
00:49:10 ◼ ► extend to all the things that Touch ID can do. So the way I read this report is, well, what if
00:49:15 ◼ ► there was an alternative authentication mechanism? What if the Apple Watch stuff and the Touch ID
00:49:20 ◼ ► stuff were maybe, like, put together on the Mac where there's just biometric authentication?
00:49:25 ◼ ► And you can do it with Touch ID sensor, or you can do it with your Apple Watch. So on my iMac Pro,
00:49:31 ◼ ► I would say 99% of the time when I wake up my iMac Pro, you know, from sleep or from screen lock,
00:49:39 ◼ ► you know, my watch just taps me and it's open. It's great. Apple Pay is less reliable. Sometimes
00:49:47 ◼ ► I authenticate by double tapping on my watch and it sits there for a very long time and then gives
00:49:52 ◼ ► up. Other times it doesn't even try and it says, "I'm going to need your iPhone," which is hilarious
00:49:57 ◼ ► because it's not even in the room with me and I have to go get it and bring it back. It's like,
00:49:59 ◼ ► "Well, this is super convenient." So there's some work to be done there, but I would love it if
00:50:05 ◼ ► every time I unlocked one password on my iMac, it knew that I was wearing my watch and it was
00:50:11 ◼ ► unlocked and it just unlocked one password and gave me a tap, like when I wake up my screen.
00:50:17 ◼ ► That would be amazing. And if I need to double tap or something like that on the watch,
00:50:21 ◼ ► that would still be better than typing my password every time. Not as good as laying my finger on the
00:50:25 ◼ ► keyboard, but pretty good. And since there are lots of Macs that have external keyboards and
00:50:32 ◼ ► things, and there is no face ID for the Mac, and lots of us don't have touch ID Macs, this is
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00:52:18 ◼ ► More iOS features coming to the Mac including Screen Time. Welcome feature for me. I would love
00:52:25 ◼ ► to have access to the full picture. I like Screen Time on iOS but it doesn't give me everything I
00:52:30 ◼ ► want to know. I'm hoping that the Mac version will be able to do this but I am concerned that it
00:52:36 ◼ ► won't be able to track everything. I don't know. I mean this yeah this is a question. I would I
00:52:42 ◼ ► would hope that it would but it goes back to what I said earlier which is I think what we'll get
00:52:48 ◼ ► is something that is basic tracking and that if you want more you should still use a time
00:52:54 ◼ ► tracking app. We've had one that timing that has sponsored this show in the past but you know
00:53:00 ◼ ► there it's always going to be the case that Apple is going to try to give you you know they're going
00:53:05 ◼ ► to bite off a certain chunk and they're going to say this is what we care about and there will be
00:53:08 ◼ ► lots of things at the edge so maybe it doesn't measure which websites you go to or whatever but
00:53:14 ◼ ► it says you're in safari but being able to run all that stuff together because I spend so much time
00:53:18 ◼ ► on my Mac during the day and so my screen time really doesn't reflect my device use it only
00:53:22 ◼ ► reflects my iOS device use so having it be part of the pool and being able to see that as part of the
00:53:27 ◼ ► the big picture I think that's great. It would also bring app limits which is a funny thing for
00:53:33 ◼ ► me to think about like app limits on the Mac but I guess it's because I don't use the Mac for apps
00:53:38 ◼ ► that I would want to limit right but other people do. Parental controls on the Mac are terrible.
00:53:43 ◼ ► They are so much better on iOS and so what I'm hoping this might mean is that the parental control
00:53:47 ◼ ► stuff is going to get better because they'll have to implement screen time which means they're then
00:53:51 ◼ ► going to have to implement a more granular parental control system so it would be because
00:53:56 ◼ ► that's what I have for my kids is I have a you know I have a bunch of things and I can administer
00:54:00 ◼ ► them all remotely from my iOS device which is another thing that you can't really do on the Mac.
00:54:04 ◼ ► You got to be on the Mac and with your administrator password so I have my kids with like
00:54:11 ◼ ► you know you can't use your device in the middle of the night you need to go to bed and then you
00:54:16 ◼ ► can't use your device first thing you know if you wake up a little bit early you need to know just
00:54:20 ◼ ► sleep you need to sleep and then I will send some time limits on some of the apps that they use
00:54:25 ◼ ► and you know on the Mac like my son also has a MacBook Air and it has it has the basic limits
00:54:32 ◼ ► of saying after a certain time you need to not use the computer anymore but that's about it so
00:54:38 ◼ ► this could mean if it's implemented the way it is on iOS it will mean much better parental control
00:54:44 ◼ ► features for the Mac and that's great. But then I also think of Marco's app Quitter right like
00:54:49 ◼ ► there are people like he thought about this for himself on his on his Mac a while ago of closing
00:54:53 ◼ ► down apps that he was wasting time on but it's just so like people do feel like they would also
00:54:58 ◼ ► need this the same as screen time on iOS it's just it doesn't match with my brain because I don't
00:55:03 ◼ ► ever really feel like I'm wasting time on my Mac like when I'm at the Mac serious stuff is happening.
00:55:08 ◼ ► But there's a lot of yeah there's a lot of people who do like distraction based stuff so being able
00:55:12 ◼ ► to say like during a certain time don't let me access Twitter or something because I need to be
00:55:16 ◼ ► writing or something like that either. There are those whole apps that like turn off your networking
00:55:20 ◼ ► so that you have to you have to just focus on your job so I think people could use it and it would be
00:55:26 ◼ ► great because the the options on the Mac right now are limited. Siri shortcuts this is difficult
00:55:31 ◼ ► this one's very complex all right so let's let's see if we can try going on I wrote a post that
00:55:37 ◼ ► parsed it and then Dr. Drang wrote a post that parsed my post that parsed it. Everyone's trying
00:55:40 ◼ ► to parse it everyone's passing so let me try and parse it. So Guy's report says that according to
00:55:45 ◼ ► his sources there is a likelihood of the shortcuts app making its way to Mac OS as there is a strong
00:55:50 ◼ ► suggestion of Siri shortcut actions making their way into Mac OS themselves. So this is the idea of
00:55:57 ◼ ► like you would be able to ask Siri to I don't know use like we could set up a shortcut to open a
00:56:03 ◼ ► specific find my friends window or whatever right you can get those like one little actions that the
00:56:07 ◼ ► system recommends to you or you can create them yourself or you know you have an app like for
00:56:11 ◼ ► example with Overcast right so Mark was just talking about Marco so with Overcast I have some
00:56:15 ◼ ► Siri shortcuts set up on my iPhone so I can say hi telephone resume Overcast and it will do that
00:56:21 ◼ ► right like and because it's just like a one thing I haven't built that with the shortcuts app this is
00:56:26 ◼ ► just something the system can do. So it is again we're not 100% sure how much information is known
00:56:34 ◼ ► how much information is being extrapolated but I think what's going on is the idea is like if
00:56:39 ◼ ► Siri shortcuts exist on the Mac then surely shortcuts will come too. Yeah it it may be a
00:56:46 ◼ ► matter of time but there's this lack of clarity about Siri shortcuts versus the shortcuts app
00:56:51 ◼ ► because yeah the report basically says Siri shortcuts will come and presumably shortcuts
00:56:57 ◼ ► may come or something like that I was like okay and then details about how how shortcuts will work
00:57:01 ◼ ► and it's like do you mean Siri shortcuts because it says shortcuts will only work with marzipan
00:57:05 ◼ ► apps I was like do you mean Siri shortcuts do you mean the shortcuts app surely there will be a
00:57:10 ◼ ► shortcuts app at some point or will Siri shortcuts on the Mac let you launch services because or
00:57:17 ◼ ► whatever they're called now I forget they changed the name of them but they they added those things
00:57:22 ◼ ► that are still in the services folder but they changed the name in Mojave that's a possibility
00:57:27 ◼ ► right it's a possibility that they could bring the shortcuts app to the Mac it's also a possibility
00:57:32 ◼ ► that they could not bring the shortcuts app to the Mac and just attach Siri shortcuts to services
00:57:36 ◼ ► which you can build in Automator which they did it sounds I know it sounds weird like why would they
00:57:41 ◼ ► dust off Automator which has been largely untouched but if you look back at Mojave the one thing that
00:57:47 ◼ ► they've done in the last few years with automation on the Mac was to brush off that whole services
00:57:53 ◼ ► idea and use it and and you could like put it in the touch bar and you can put it in the finder
00:58:00 ◼ ► and it's this whole new way of of accessing the stuff that's been on the Mac since the very
00:58:12 ◼ ► that where they're like well we got Siri shortcuts on the Mac but they're not really the same as iOS
00:58:16 ◼ ► they're just letting you use that the the Automator stuff that they that they did I hope
00:58:23 ◼ ► that what we see at least at some point is a new version of shortcuts for the Mac because
00:58:29 ◼ ► you get that sync between iOS and Mac in terms of you know even if the shortcuts don't all work the
00:58:34 ◼ ► same way that you have the same app on both and that you learn it on one and you can kind of
00:58:38 ◼ ► figure it out on the other and then you can basically build an Automator replacement on the Mac
00:58:44 ◼ ► by using shortcuts. Also the report of marzipan apps only is really disturbing to me because if
00:58:54 ◼ ► it's accurate what you're going to have is like two totally different classes of app on the Mac
00:58:59 ◼ ► that can do different things and are are controlled in different ways and as Dr. Dren pointed out in
00:59:09 ◼ ► version of Mac OS uses a marzipan app instead and all your automation breaks and you can't have
00:59:14 ◼ ► access to it anymore because marzipan doesn't do that that's also a concern although my gut reaction
00:59:20 ◼ ► to reading the story was well you say marzipan only surely part of what Apple would do is say
00:59:26 ◼ ► to classic Mac app developers here's how you implement this. Yes it is the assumption it is
00:59:34 ◼ ► an assumption to make that an application that uses this technology has to be an iOS app through
00:59:43 ◼ ► and through like that it I don't think it would be impossible to assume that this is a like a
00:59:49 ◼ ► selection of APIs that people could kind of use and you could be a more classic Mac app and still
00:59:56 ◼ ► use some of this functionality in some way that doesn't seem impossible to me. Right I mean this
01:00:00 ◼ ► is this is how it's worked for years on the Mac is there have been new APIs that old apps have been
01:00:06 ◼ ► able to take advantage of and it basically is like yeah you're going to have to learn how to do this
01:00:11 ◼ ► thing that requires you know things that are iOS based or marzipan based in some way and put them
01:00:16 ◼ ► in your Mac app but ideally you would be able to do that because you you'd want you know I would
01:00:21 ◼ ► be okay with the idea that like you don't pick it up for free if you want to do this because that
01:00:26 ◼ ► happened in the Mac OS 10 transition it happened this has happened before where you're like all
01:00:31 ◼ ► right you're gonna have to learn something new to get this new feature. Yeah like if you want to stay
01:00:35 ◼ ► in in the app kit style you want to stay as a regular Mac app you can integrate with some of
01:00:40 ◼ ► the stuff but it's not going to be as easy if you're bringing over an iOS app right like bring
01:00:44 ◼ ► over an iOS app iOS app a lot of this stuff is just ready to go for you. Yeah you get it for free
01:00:48 ◼ ► but a Mac app you need to add the this iOS thing to your Mac app and then it will just work and
01:00:54 ◼ ► and that that's really a writing on writings on the wall moment for Mac developers right which is
01:00:59 ◼ ► hey we're bringing new features to Mac OS they will require you to write things that are basically
01:01:05 ◼ ► iOS APIs that you will now need to support because guess what now they're Mac APIs too but that's the
01:01:10 ◼ ► way I would imagine that that's the way that Apple will pitch it is this is a new API for Mac OS and
01:01:15 ◼ ► and marzipan apps get it for free but you can get it by doing this thing and not saying sorry
01:01:21 ◼ ► Mac developers you don't get this new basic core system functionality that seems weird so I'm gonna
01:01:28 ◼ ► I'm gonna be optimistic about that by the way the name of the the automator thing that I was
01:01:31 ◼ ► mentioning it's called quick actions they renamed it in Mojave quick actions it appears in preview
01:01:36 ◼ ► it appears in the finder it appears on the touch bar so that was one thought I had is what if they
01:01:41 ◼ ► don't bring shortcuts to the Mac yet but they want to do Siri shortcuts equivalents on the Mac and
01:01:46 ◼ ► what they do is they trigger it all off of quick actions and then or quick actions plus apps will
01:01:53 ◼ ► have registered like they do on iOS and those will come over there are some different ways that they
01:01:58 ◼ ► could do that so it's all what I'm saying is it's kind of a mess because you've got the old way of
01:02:04 ◼ ► doing automation on the Mac and then you've got a potentially new way of doing automation on the Mac
01:02:09 ◼ ► and they don't really connect now Siri doesn't do quick actions on the Mac even now which is weird
01:02:17 ◼ ► so they gotta they gotta clean this up and my gut feeling is it's not gonna happen this year right
01:02:24 ◼ ► my gut feeling is that they may do some stuff this year to get them in going in the right direction
01:02:34 ◼ ► automator that's all kind of like going away and shortcuts is coming in and we're going to use
01:02:39 ◼ ► shortcuts for everything and you know if you're an old Mac app that's sticking around you need
01:02:44 ◼ ► to support shortcuts which works this way and that you know over the course of two or three years
01:02:49 ◼ ► all the old stuff is going to get deprecated and at that point my only request and this is
01:02:53 ◼ ► something that Dr. Drang brought up too is on the Mac you have this incredible power of going to
01:02:59 ◼ ► Apple script or JavaScript or to running shell scripts and most of my shortcuts that I've wired
01:03:06 ◼ ► up on my Mac that save huge amounts of time for me are some combination of shell script or Apple
01:03:12 ◼ ► script sometimes embedded in automator and kicking off those quick actions those services so what
01:03:21 ◼ ► happens there on the Mac does does does shortcuts get more capable on the Mac or is this a way for
01:03:28 ◼ ► Apple to kind of like pull some power user automation out of the system I don't know I hope not.
01:03:33 ◼ ► In my mind in my dream scenario here shortcuts the shortcuts app could be like a poster child
01:03:42 ◼ ► for what I consider the perfect way that marzipan will work in that for shortcuts to exist on the
01:03:51 ◼ ► Mac it has to bring with it a lot of iOS conventions and a lot of iOS things so like for
01:03:57 ◼ ► shortcuts to exist if Apple want that to occur they have to bring Siri shortcuts to the Mac
01:04:02 ◼ ► right which makes the Mac better because now the Mac has more functionality Siri becomes more of a
01:04:08 ◼ ► level playing field amongst devices right and also by bringing shortcuts it can enable more
01:04:13 ◼ ► automation which will be easier for more people because most people like myself find the existing
01:04:18 ◼ ► ways of automation on the Mac to be much more complicated and harder to understand for sure
01:04:22 ◼ ► but in wanting to make shortcuts truly useful on the Mac they have to integrate with a lot of Mac
01:04:32 ◼ ► like stuff which then if you make shortcuts that powerful on the Mac some of that power can find
01:04:38 ◼ ► its way back to iOS right so like that's why I think of it of like an app like shortcuts could
01:04:44 ◼ ► really be the perfect example of what we want this project to be where it makes both systems better
01:04:50 ◼ ► now I know that I am drawing a real dream scenario here but that is my dream scenario well the way I
01:04:56 ◼ ► have thought about it is what would happen if shortcuts was on the Mac I think the way it would
01:05:00 ◼ ► be built is something like because the question is like well how can you do shell script if iOS
01:05:08 ◼ ► doesn't have a shell and the answer is you make do shell script something that is tied to the
01:05:13 ◼ ► terminal app and the terminal app because the way shortcuts works even now is if you don't have the
01:05:18 ◼ ► right apps you can't do those things so some apps are only on the Mac and so some functionality will
01:05:25 ◼ ► only be on the Mac and I'm okay with that right like I'd love there I'd love to be able to run
01:05:29 ◼ ► shell scripts on iOS don't get me wrong but lacking that that would be the the next best
01:05:37 ◼ ► thing is just just let the Mac users do that stuff and and go to town with it and then they would
01:05:48 ◼ ► that's fine but you're right a lot of what we talk about about iOS infiltrating the Mac and changing
01:05:52 ◼ ► it is funny from the perspective of somebody who uses iOS for so much stuff now because I view it
01:05:58 ◼ ► the other way too which is some of this stuff is like the Mac is so much more demanding and the
01:06:04 ◼ ► users require so much more and as an iPad enthusiast I look at that and I'm like this is great
01:06:12 ◼ ► because this forces Apple you know in bringing this stuff over to do a far better job with real
01:06:20 ◼ ► important features that they've kind of done halfway or if at all on the iPad and presumably
01:06:29 ◼ ► a lot of that stuff gets reflected onto the iPad too which means as I said I think last week
01:06:35 ◼ ► I really am loving this idea that there's this virtuous cycle that nobody really wants to write
01:06:42 ◼ ► a pro app for the iPad because there are only so many iPad users and nobody wants to write a brand
01:06:48 ◼ ► new pro app for the Mac because there's only so many Mac users but now I could write one app
01:06:55 ◼ ► and iPad users and Mac users both get it and it's like you know that is you're doubling the
01:07:02 ◼ ► addressable market of iPad and Mac users when you do that and so I think that's the other that's the
01:07:09 ◼ ► other fun thing is that this is not a lot of Mac users like oh boy they're gonna ruin the Mac
01:07:14 ◼ ► by making it like iOS and I think well it's gonna be different but you know what else is gonna happen
01:07:19 ◼ ► is that the Mac is gonna have an influence exerted on iOS it's going to exert its influence back I
01:07:26 ◼ ► think which is the thing that excites me the most this was I remember sitting in a hotel room at
01:07:32 ◼ ► WWDC last year looking into your eyes and saying I'm so excited for what might happen to the iPad
01:07:40 ◼ ► because of this like that's the thing that's always made me so excited for my iPad to get
01:07:45 ◼ ► more Mac like like so iOS becomes more powerful and I think it's good for the Mac I agree with
01:07:51 ◼ ► you like I think over here on upgrade we are big proponents of the best timeline of this of like
01:07:56 ◼ ► that it will actually be ultimately good for everything but time will tell and the final
01:08:03 ◼ ► report as of pub as of our recording time right now oh boy is some information for developers
01:08:08 ◼ ► so new Siri intents including media playback search voice calling event ticketing message
01:08:14 ◼ ► attachment and travel information so these will be things that developers can plug into
01:08:18 ◼ ► to be more attached into Siri I don't know what this is going to mean yet like media playback
01:08:25 ◼ ► does that mean that Spotify will get what they want like maybe we don't know and this is the
01:08:29 ◼ ► thing where like I don't even really want to talk about this so much because Siri intents I think
01:08:33 ◼ ► have been mostly disappointing so far like so media playback and search what what this reads
01:08:38 ◼ ► to me and again we we are often guilty of sort of like taking the optimist view here but what
01:08:43 ◼ ► media playback and search imply to me is a dictionary that is broader than what is resident
01:08:52 ◼ ► on the device right yeah like one of the things about this has always been like well how could you
01:08:57 ◼ ► really do a Spotify um control because they don't have access to like your catalog and so everything
01:09:05 ◼ ► is going to have to go to the cloud and be interpreted and you know it doesn't know the
01:09:10 ◼ ► names of all the musical artists and so what's going to happen and like search is the same way
01:09:14 ◼ ► right like search is arbitrary string of text and then you kind of like send it out there so
01:09:20 ◼ ► I look at this and I think yeah maybe maybe this is Apple saying we're gonna open this up now where
01:09:26 ◼ ► we're not worried anymore about having to you know pre-load a universe of of text like our
01:09:34 ◼ ► our text recognition engine is much better now and just throw anything at it and we'll search for it
01:09:39 ◼ ► or we'll play back that music and you know we're because I do think that was part of their reluctance
01:09:45 ◼ ► to open this stuff up was just a reluctance that it would be able to figure out what you were saying
01:09:50 ◼ ► and maybe they're over it I mean they should have been over it years ago but maybe they're over it
01:09:54 ◼ ► now some information about marzipan so there will be apis for the touch bar the menu bar and
01:10:00 ◼ ► keyboard shortcuts so you're bringing over an ios app there will be apis to to plug into all of that
01:10:06 ◼ ► which is brilliant um multiple windows on the mac so this adds to the idea of everything that's
01:10:12 ◼ ► come before you know like what we were talking about last week there's multiple instances on the
01:10:16 ◼ ► ipad the fact that you will have apis on multiple windows on the mac probably means if you have
01:10:21 ◼ ► multiple windows on ios as well right right apps that use split view multitasking can be resized
01:10:28 ◼ ► this is interesting to me jason because if this is the case why is there this whole thing that
01:10:35 ◼ ► mark german was talking about about iphone apps coming next year if you can run these apps in
01:10:41 ◼ ► skinny size which is what we're expecting here like you would you'd be able to like just
01:10:46 ◼ ► drag the the window and make it smaller so it would be effectively iphone column size here is
01:10:51 ◼ ► the reason the reason is that if you're an iphone only app you don't have the capability to go up
01:10:57 ◼ ► to a bigger size well yeah i guess i'm thinking of it from the wrong side aren't i right it wants the
01:11:01 ◼ ► it wants only apps that are like resizable which means they need to be on the ipad and they need
01:11:07 ◼ ► to work in all the different views if you're just a single thing what they don't want and i'm gonna
01:11:12 ◼ ► i'm gonna pull a john syracusea here and throw out some old mac knowledges what they don't want are
01:11:16 ◼ ► desk accessories das which was the thing that we had back in the old mac days which were little
01:11:20 ◼ ► tiny apps like the calculator was a da and you you launched them from the apple menu and there were
01:11:25 ◼ ► these teeny tiny little windows and they were single window apps they were they were iphone
01:11:31 ◼ ► apps before there was an iphone by decades and that's what iphone apps would look like they'd be
01:11:36 ◼ ► unreseizable little tiny things on a mac screen and i feel like maybe this is not a technical
01:11:44 ◼ ► limitation but it's apple kind of saying that's not a good experience on the mac to have a non-
01:11:50 ◼ ► resizable phone-shaped window and so if you want to be on the mac you're going to need to do
01:11:56 ◼ ► better than that and then maybe we'll give you what you want next year but for now you aren't
01:12:01 ◼ ► going to get it so that's that's my guess is that they this is all about apps that are capable of
01:12:07 ◼ ► resizing dynamically and then on the mac logically you'll resize your window hey look it resizes
01:12:13 ◼ ► dynamically because it's made to do that quote from the article enabling mac support for an
01:12:18 ◼ ► existing ios app is as easy as enabling a checkbox and target settings in xcode much as you would to
01:12:24 ◼ ► add ipad support to an iphone only app yeah i i we've seen some developers who've basically said
01:12:29 ◼ ► this makes sense because first off you already are building intel versions of these apps because
01:12:35 ◼ ► those are what the simulator builds are and if marzipan is all you know the whole idea marzipan
01:12:41 ◼ ► is you're not supposed to have to change your code very much now this is not the same as saying you
01:12:45 ◼ ► don't need to design it you need to design it all these ways that you can make it a better mac app
01:12:50 ◼ ► but imagine that demo at wwdc maybe in the keynote maybe in the state of the union where they take an
01:12:58 ◼ ► ios app in xcode and check a box and run it and it runs and it looks fine and then definitely in
01:13:05 ◼ ► the state of the union and in follow-up sessions they'll say all right here's all the things you
01:13:10 ◼ ► have to do that's great it's better but please don't do that right right but it's like that's
01:13:15 ◼ ► the start is to get over the hump you don't have to change 20 of your code you check this box and
01:13:22 ◼ ► you're running on the mac but you can be a lot better and pick up all these features that by
01:13:27 ◼ ► the way are also in ios 13 on the ipad by doing this and then that's the next step i think that's
01:13:37 ◼ ► because it makes so much sense like you can check the box and get something really weird and generic
01:13:42 ◼ ► but it's fine and it runs and then let me show you all the ways that you can make this better
01:13:46 ◼ ► and some notes on ar quote brand new swift only framework for ar and a companion app that lets
01:14:05 ◼ ► like yeah playgrounds sure but for ar so like you can create a visual experience and then you can
01:14:12 ◼ ► have it into the real world so maybe it's a like a toolkit like that like playgrounds is um ar kit
01:14:17 ◼ ► will be enhanced to detect human poses this is interesting to me i don't 100 know what we would
01:14:24 ◼ ► do with that but like maybe that you would be able to project something onto someone which is kind of
01:14:29 ◼ ► an interesting yeah could be or or have people have people play a game in part by you know moving
01:14:35 ◼ ► i don't know support for controllers of touch pads will be added uh this definitely means more than
01:14:41 ◼ ► just for ar i'm not really sure why this is in the ar section um this sounds like something that
01:14:46 ◼ ► they're going to need for some of the games that they showed off with apple arcade but like you
01:14:50 ◼ ► might need to have some touch support especially if you want to play some of these games on apple tv
01:14:54 ◼ ► um could mean new remote right but also if you're thinking about vr you do need a the idea of you
01:15:02 ◼ ► do you need a controller to like move and stuff sometimes right but there already are controllers
01:15:07 ◼ ► they don't necessarily need touch pads like the touchpad thing is is an interesting addition um
01:15:13 ◼ ► but yeah the report also references stereo ar headsets i do not know what they are yeah somebody
01:15:20 ◼ ► was like oh well apple ar headset confirmed right and my thought is well it could be that apple is
01:15:27 ◼ ► going to make a developer ar headset you know something that's expensive and it's for developers
01:15:34 ◼ ► and it's to for them to uh to build the next generation of augmented reality um it's also
01:15:41 ◼ ► i think most likely that they're talking about uh some and i don't know this market enough to say
01:15:46 ◼ ► but like some third-party headset basically that i guess what stereo means is stereoscopic right
01:15:53 ◼ ► so like yeah right no it's it's it's it's depth you're you've got a different slightly different
01:15:57 ◼ ► image in the left and the right and it gives you depth perception and that's what it's talking
01:16:01 ◼ ► about here but like ar headsets like is that an apple ar headset that they're going to work on
01:16:06 ◼ ► that seems premature as possible but it seems more likely that what they would do is say hey we now
01:16:11 ◼ ► have support for these stereo ar headsets and uh here's what they are here's here's uh the third
01:16:17 ◼ ► parties that that have this so that's it we're all up to date is that all stuff there's a lot of
01:16:24 ◼ ► stuff i mean i again i will uh tip my cap to gee rambo for this mammoth amount of information
01:16:36 ◼ ► huge data dump like from somewhere from somewhere it's come from somewhere um it's definite i mean
01:16:44 ◼ ► i feel like we spoke about this last week too but like i feel like especially as the week has gone
01:16:48 ◼ ► on this definitely feels like a combination between people and actual information um so
01:16:56 ◼ ► i'm really but i think that the uh he has reported on this in a very clear and concise way and i like
01:17:04 ◼ ► the way that it's been broken out um it's made it exciting you know made it it was it was you know
01:17:09 ◼ ► it's kind of like when apple releasing products every day for a week until they stopped um i like
01:17:13 ◼ ► that uh nine to five mac went further they they did a whole six seven releases so really it's
01:17:20 ◼ ► like a really great uh way to get this information out and i am super intrigued to see just how much
01:17:29 ◼ ► he got right yeah yeah it feels like a really accurate thing but of course it's also april
01:17:36 ◼ ► and this is going to happen in june that the announcements are going to be made and so stuff
01:17:40 ◼ ► can drop out stuff can get knocked out as a part of the development process so that may happen with
01:17:45 ◼ ► some of this stuff but it is one of the things i like about this we've been talking about this
01:17:48 ◼ ► from a few different angles over the last year and the more information we get the more it becomes
01:17:54 ◼ ► clear that this is not a mac strategy this is not an ios strategy this is an apple strategy apple is
01:18:01 ◼ ► trying to build uh changes to how apps are built that will benefit the mac and ios it's it's one
01:18:09 ◼ ► story and the windowing is a good example of that where it's like well you can build windows in your
01:18:13 ◼ ► ios apps when they're on the mac but also you can do this on ios that's different but it's the same
01:18:19 ◼ ► you know that kind of thing is happening now where this is one story it's not two stories
01:18:22 ◼ ► are you getting it yet yeah this is one story yeah today's show is brought to you by toffee
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01:20:00 ◼ ► and we'll see you next time. Should we do some hashtag ask upgrade questions? Sure I've got more lasers. This comes from sm there are tons of movie and tv streaming services that are looking to launch over the next 12 months in five years time which of them do you think will still be around or which do you think will be the top two in terms of subscribers oh wow uh top two i well top two i think it's it'll be netflix and uh amazon oh no amazon yeah amazon i think there's huge
01:20:30 ◼ ► numbers of prime users right like a huge percentage of the united states has prime so i think they that counts oh yeah i don't know i don't know if the top two in terms of subscribers of the things that are going to launch um disney is number one like of the new stuff disney will be the biggest in terms of just that it's disney they also just have an incredible amount of content right like like they have done a lot of work
01:20:55 ◼ ► by buying all the all the shows uh to make it work for them and it's stuff people actually want to see as well right like it's not just oh they have so much stuff like but it's so much good stuff and out of the um others that have that are uh launching over the next 12 months i think number two i'm gonna say will be the warner media streaming service because they're gonna roll together all the stuff that they own and they own a lot of stuff including hbo including dc comics they'll do some original harry potter this is yeah right i mean harry potter tv show make it happen
01:21:25 ◼ ► batman like another straight up batman tv show don't hold don't get coy and hold batman back for the movies and make these like titans and gotham where it's like it's almost batman but it's not really batman like no just do it it's time just do a batman tv show and you know get get get do a superman tv show like get all of your intellectual property and bring it to bear and they have so much of it they're not disney but i think that warner media with their new hires with the changes they're making it's going to take them a little time but i think they're coming to play and so i think they're gonna they're gonna be
01:21:54 ◼ ► um fairly successful of the of the new ones i think but disney clearly uh will be the most of the new ones i didn't mention apple yes unknown right uh not in the top two that's what i'm gonna say we'll see uh sakaris asks can we get an update on hashtag rumba life are you both still satisfied customers i am i my rumba runs most every day and uh only occasionally sends an alert that it's eaten something or stuck on a cliff still my favorite jamie said uh
01:22:24 ◼ ► jamie said your robot ate my shoes it's true it's wound up one of her uh one of her shoelaces because
01:22:30 ◼ ► i guess she took her shoes off after i had cleared the area because that's the thing that i try to do
01:22:34 ◼ ► is clear the area you gotta make the pants of uh of the rumba launching but the wedges in the doors
01:22:40 ◼ ► pick up the rugs you know i got my little yeah i got my little uh my little beam that i put in
01:22:45 ◼ ► the hallway so that it doesn't go past a certain point or i close certain doors and uh and get the
01:22:51 ◼ ► the house ready but you know it fills up that little dirt container with just huge amounts
01:22:56 ◼ ► of dust and and pet hair and stuff like that every time and so it you know it's not just a noise maker
01:23:04 ◼ ► that roams around my house and disturbs the dog and the cat it is actually doing something and so uh
01:23:12 ◼ ► i think it's great i wish when this one dies i will i will seriously consider upgrading to one
01:23:17 ◼ ► of the ones that like completely maps your house because i can see the appeal of saying hey uh
01:23:23 ◼ ► rumba go clean the hallway uh and have it just pop off its perch and go where it needs to go
01:23:30 ◼ ► and run there and then go back home i i can see the appeal of that but as a first like it's like
01:23:35 ◼ ► this is a nice bookend for the electric car thing like i got a starter rumba it's good i like it and
01:23:40 ◼ ► same for you same for you oh 100 we love our rumba uh we use it all the time and you know
01:23:47 ◼ ► it's an it's a real nice to have it is not an essential thing in a home but it is a real nice
01:23:52 ◼ ► to have it is a is a lovely luxury well i'm just not sweeping the floors every day and i'm sure
01:23:57 ◼ ► if i swept the floors and vacuumed the rugs every day i wouldn't need it but i do not do that so and
01:24:03 ◼ ► and i am here when the rest of my family is not so even though i have it on a schedule that one
01:24:09 ◼ ► of the nice things is i can go out there sort of before or after lunch and i can move all the stuff
01:24:13 ◼ ► move all the stuff around and sometimes i even just press the button right then and run it because
01:24:17 ◼ ► i'm out here it's in there with nobody but the dog and the cat who are not thrilled but they have
01:24:21 ◼ ► learned to deal and it does its work and the house is cleaner so it's good uh john asks what do you
01:24:27 ◼ ► use to make the robot unlock theme music jason this is not john seracusa robot or not we've been
01:24:34 ◼ ► going through a lot of themes that are by listeners so i don't know they send in weird robot or not
01:24:39 ◼ ► music and we use it the original theme and the end theme are by lex friedman i think he did it all in
01:24:44 ◼ ► garage band i did a theme a few weeks ago that i did and i used logic for it but it's it's from
01:24:51 ◼ ► all over the place but i i'm pretty sure that lex's version is just garage band and finally today phil
01:24:57 ◼ ► asks now that it's basically on all of the ipads do you think that apple will bring some version
01:25:01 ◼ ► of pencil support to the iphone i don't i don't because i think that they brought it to all the
01:25:08 ◼ ► ipads and that apple is considering the pencil and ipad differentiator it would require them i think
01:25:15 ◼ ► to design a new pencil which they've already done that is not as long because that long pencil is
01:25:21 ◼ ► kind of really awkward to use with a i would think with a small phone so i think i'm gonna we we we
01:25:26 ◼ ► expressed our hopes about this a while ago but i think i'm gonna i'm gonna change now having seen
01:25:30 ◼ ► what apple has done with the ipad line that actually makes me think it's less likely that
01:25:33 ◼ ► it'll come to the iphone i'm still holding out hope not based on any reason that i think it will
01:25:38 ◼ ► happen just because i want it just for hope yeah all right for hope for hope for hope's sake you
01:25:42 ◼ ► know that'd be cool that'd be cool it's all there they could do it they could do it and like we said
01:25:46 ◼ ► about adding a mouse to ios like it doesn't have to be a mainstream feature it can be something
01:25:51 ◼ ► that the the people who really really want it you give it to them the software is there
01:25:55 ◼ ► on on ios already because it's there for the ipad so you could put it in there and not have it be
01:26:01 ◼ ► you know a banner feature but like yes if you have an apple pencil you can use it with the iphone too
01:26:05 ◼ ► that's fine i i think they could do it but i don't know my guess now is no all right that's it for
01:26:12 ◼ ► this week's episode of upgrade i would like to extend my thanks to gamy rambo for filling up
01:26:17 ◼ ► an entire episode for us much appreciate special guest gee rambo uh thanks so much to text expand
01:26:23 ◼ ► a borrow and move for their support of this episode you can find show notes and information
01:26:26 ◼ ► about today's show over at relay.fm upgrade slash 242 you can find jason online at sixcolors.com
01:26:33 ◼ ► and the incomparable.com jason is the host of many relay fm shows like me you go to relay.fm
01:26:39 ◼ ► shows and find the stuff that myself jason and many other talented individuals put together
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01:26:51 ◼ ► follow jason online at twitter on twitter at jasonl at j s n e double l i am at i mike i m y k e