00:00:15 ◼ ► Luna Display and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley and I have the pleasure as always of being
00:00:20 ◼ ► joined by my partner in crime, Mr Jason Snell. Hello, Mr Myke Hurley. Hello, Mr Jason Snell. We
00:00:30 ◼ ► Jason, when you rotate your iPhone to landscape, which side does the notch go? Well, that's an
00:00:44 ◼ ► right? We don't generally hold our phones upside down. Not generally, not generally. Although
00:00:49 ◼ ► Sonos makes you do that when you're tuning a speaker, which is hilarious. They flip the
00:00:53 ◼ ► whole UI upside down because they want you to hold the microphone in the air. That's clever.
00:00:57 ◼ ► And it just seems wrong. So what I'm going to say to Nathan is clockwise. So the notch goes to the
00:01:05 ◼ ► right because I rotate my phone clockwise. Huh? Okay. I thought that everybody turned it to the
00:01:17 ◼ ► like the home button always goes on the right and that's the holdover, right? Who says the home
00:01:22 ◼ ► button always goes on the right? I don't know why I assume this. Wait, do you do it? Which way do
00:01:27 ◼ ► you turn your iPad? Where do the cameras go left or right? I can't tell anymore, quite frankly.
00:01:32 ◼ ► Well, because the Apple pencil always stays on top, right? Believe it or not, it depends on what
00:01:36 ◼ ► case it's in because the keyboard, the smart keyboard folio opens a different direction than
00:01:41 ◼ ► the smart cover. What? What? No, that's unacceptable. I think that's, I think that's true. I think the
00:01:48 ◼ ► smart keyboard folio opens on the other side. Oh God, no, that would drive me mad. I think so. I
00:01:55 ◼ ► think that's right. Is that correct? I don't know. That seems wild, Jason. Are you putting it on
00:02:00 ◼ ► upside down? I don't have it here. I think it's, well, no, because there's magnets, Myke. You can't
00:02:04 ◼ ► fight the magnets. So I don't know. I don't, I think it's usually, I think the camera's usually
00:02:10 ◼ ► to the left, but sometimes it's to the right. That's the beauty of that new iPad is that I'm
00:02:14 ◼ ► not supposed to have to care about it. I think it's usually to the left because my power cord
00:02:20 ◼ ► comes from the right side. So you typically hold your iPad and your iPhone in different,
00:02:28 ◼ ► like you turn them differently, right? The phone goes to the right and the iPad goes to the left.
00:02:39 ◼ ► so it's much less noticeable. What, you know, what direction? And the things we learned from
00:02:43 ◼ ► Snell Talk questions. Now I'm worried I got this wrong. I'm going to go get my iPad right now.
00:02:59 ◼ ► Okay. I've got an update. Both of them do attach on the same side. I think one of them is less
00:03:08 ◼ ► comfortable to hold in that orientation because the keyboard one has a fold in the flat back,
00:03:17 ◼ ► Okay. So yeah, so on the smart cover, camera on the left for the iPad, camera on the right for the
00:03:34 ◼ ► Anything could happen. For me, all the cameras go on the left because the home button or where
00:03:38 ◼ ► the home button would have been always went on the right for me. I don't know why that is. I don't
00:03:43 ◼ ► know if there's like some particular reason that I am that way. Let me also say, it's so rare that
00:03:52 ◼ ► I ever rotate my iPhone to landscape. I watch a lot of video on my iPhone. That is a thing that
00:03:58 ◼ ► I do. So then I will do it. I always have my iPad with me, basically. Yeah, I don't always. I never
00:04:06 ◼ ► use an app in landscape unless it's like a game or whatever. I never really take advantage of
00:04:14 ◼ ► landscape orientation on the iPhone. It's always been unsatisfying to me. I feel like the screen
00:04:26 ◼ ► I agree. Nathan, thank you for giving us this gift of this wild opening to this week's show.
00:04:40 ◼ ► with the hashtag #snelltalk and it may be included for a future episode. I will remind people or will
00:04:46 ◼ ► inform them for the first time in case you maybe new around here. Next week's episode is going to
00:04:52 ◼ ► be our WWDC draft. Me and Jason compete before every Apple event. We will make our picks. We
00:05:01 ◼ ► make our kind of prediction-based picks and then we will score them in the episode which comes after
00:05:07 ◼ ► the event because we are so close to WWDC now. Next week's episode is exactly one week until the WWDC
00:05:14 ◼ ► keynote. So we'll be doing our draft next week. And I mention this because if you have any draft
00:05:18 ◼ ► related #snelltalk questions then you should send those in in the intervening time. But we will be
00:05:23 ◼ ► going through everything draft related next week, all the rules, all the way that it works, before
00:05:28 ◼ ► we make our picks. I am very excited about the draft as I always am. Yeah, I haven't prepared
00:05:34 ◼ ► at all too so I realize I've got some work to do. Well, the preparation begins now. Yeah, it's hard
00:05:40 ◼ ► too, right? This is a tricky one WWDC because you're trying to gauge what they say on stage
00:05:46 ◼ ► and there's so much that is rumored for us to pick through. We have a lot of picks available
00:05:52 ◼ ► this time. It's hard work. I'm basically just going to go through that Mark Gurman bulleted list and
00:05:57 ◼ ► they will be our picks. So thank you for making that a bulleted list Mark, I really appreciate it.
00:06:03 ◼ ► I have some bridge follow-up because the 11-inch version arrived today and I wanted to kind of just,
00:06:13 ◼ ► I don't have a ton to say about this. It's fantastic. I really, I like the 11-inch version
00:06:21 ◼ ► about as much as I thought I would. It makes this iPad feel like a really tiny netbook or something.
00:06:27 ◼ ► Like it just feels like a really tiny computer. I have noticed over the last week of using the
00:06:34 ◼ ► bridge, I feel like I have nearly tweeted this like 20 times but figured it would make people mad,
00:06:40 ◼ ► but if I say it in a podcast, it might not be as bad. The 2018 iPad Pro with the bridge
00:06:56 ◼ ► Either size. I mean, I've only had the 11 for like half an hour, but like just using the
00:07:00 ◼ ► using the bridge keyboard with the iPad Pro, it's, I just look at it and it's like, it's perfect for
00:07:06 ◼ ► me. I love it. I absolutely love it. I know that there's a lot of contention about that. Like I've
00:07:13 ◼ ► had many Mac laptops, but just for me, this makes some, this just makes so much sense. And I love it
00:07:19 ◼ ► very much. And yeah, the 11 is really great. The keys are tiny. It will get, it takes some getting
00:07:23 ◼ ► used to, but I know I could adapt to it. Like there are some of them like the delete keys, like
00:07:28 ◼ ► the size of a regular letter key, right, which is like a strange thing. It is, I think even more so
00:07:35 ◼ ► than on the larger model, you notice that it is significantly chunkier, right, than the smart
00:07:40 ◼ ► folio. It's definitely more heft to it, but it has a substantial feeling and it looks fantastic.
00:07:45 ◼ ► I think that's why, uh, that's one of the reasons why I love this form factor even more now than I
00:07:53 ◼ ► did before, because bridge did such a fantastic job of making it look like a complete package.
00:07:59 ◼ ► So yeah, I really, I think it's really great. Um, I thoroughly recommend this one in the same way
00:08:05 ◼ ► that I will recommend the larger one too. Um, I, I reckon I will be just switching to the 11 inch
00:08:13 ◼ ► on my, uh, on this iPad too, as well. I was, I was wondering like, will I just use it for traveling
00:08:19 ◼ ► or not? And I think, no, I will probably be using it at home too, because the bridge is also,
00:08:23 ◼ ► it's actually really good for watching video too, which is a lot of what I do with this iPad. Like
00:08:28 ◼ ► I'll watch or read in bed, but now I actually don't have to hold it up because it holds itself
00:08:33 ◼ ► up. Right. And, and, and it, because the, the additional angle ability of the bridge compared
00:08:40 ◼ ► to the smart folio is great because I can, you know, I even think about like, you know,
00:08:45 ◼ ► they have the media mode or whatever, you put the keyboard behind it, that would work for the way
00:08:49 ◼ ► that I use this iPad better than the smart folio would, because the smart folio lost its like flip
00:08:56 ◼ ► around and stand up kind of thing that the, the keyboard, I should say that the folio still has.
00:09:01 ◼ ► So I, I, I'm all in on the 11 inch as well. The bridge, I think it's fantastic. This is one I
00:09:07 ◼ ► bought on my own, by the way, I bought this one myself. This was the one that I ordered and bridge
00:09:11 ◼ ► sent me the, the 12 inch. It looks like they are shipping now. I've been seeing a lot of people
00:09:16 ◼ ► getting them, right? So I think that they're, they're in full shipping mode now, but yeah,
00:09:20 ◼ ► I think that the 11 is, is, is really nice. I recommend it. And if you do have a technical
00:09:26 ◼ ► support issue or something with your bridge keyboard that you just received, contact the
00:09:31 ◼ ► company. Don't contact us. We are not the company. I think we've gotten at least two support questions
00:09:37 ◼ ► about bridge keyboards so far. Yeah. Oh, well. We are, I think advocates for it though, at this
00:09:43 ◼ ► point. We are, it's fine. I just, I can't help them with their order, right? Like I can't do that.
00:09:54 ◼ ► Jason. We have a new show on relay FM that I think might interest some upgrade listeners.
00:09:58 ◼ ► It's called adapt. Um, it is a brand new show focused on iOS productivity. It's hosted by
00:10:03 ◼ ► Federico Vitici and Ryan Christoffel of Mac stories. Uh, it has a bit of a twist to it in
00:10:08 ◼ ► that every episode they set challenges for each other. Like for example, find an iOS custom
00:10:13 ◼ ► keyboard that you could actually use to get work done or publish a article to look to your website
00:10:19 ◼ ► directly from Apple notes. Um, and then they try and find ways to make these things happen. So
00:10:24 ◼ ► it's a fun show that can help teach you more about using iOS, but in a different format, um, than
00:10:31 ◼ ► what I've seen elsewhere. So I think this is a, this is a really nice mix and we're very, very
00:10:35 ◼ ► happy to have it here on relay FM. So it's iPad by Friday. This is what I've been thinking, right?
00:10:41 ◼ ► Like that's it is do it by iPad. I think I do buy iPad. Sure. That works. It's a weekly challenge
00:10:48 ◼ ► podcast. It's actually fortnightly, um, challenge each other, challenge yourselves. Should we do
00:10:53 ◼ ► some upstream news? Jason Snell we've been holding onto a bit. Anything happened to, uh, yeah, we
00:10:58 ◼ ► should, we should. We said it would happen and it happened. Uh, Disney has assumed full control of
00:11:06 ◼ ► Hulu basically. Um, within five years of now Comcast will be selling at stake of Disney,
00:11:12 ◼ ► to Disney of Hulu for $5.8 billion. At least right. Like there's a minimum amount of money
00:11:18 ◼ ► that they'll get. They may get more as Hulu's valuation is adjusted, but it's, yeah, they're
00:11:23 ◼ ► going to get a big chunk of change from Disney over the next five years. Yeah. It's an interesting
00:11:26 ◼ ► thing for me. I'm not really sure if I've known of a deal to go this way before, but it's like,
00:11:30 ◼ ► we've agreed it. And at some point it's going to, it's like, it's very strange. It's, it is a very
00:11:34 ◼ ► strange deal. It's the unwinding of a joint venture and that's complicated. So it's one of these
00:11:39 ◼ ► things where they're sort of like making these horse it's horse trading to get to the, to get
00:11:43 ◼ ► to the final resolution they've been in talks. And so there's a, you know, there's a valuation set
00:11:48 ◼ ► that is, it can go up, but it can't go down. And there are agreements about sort of like when
00:11:53 ◼ ► content can go off, uh, when content's exclusive and not exclusive because there's a lot of NBC
00:11:59 ◼ ► universal content on Hulu. And obviously eventually they want to make, make their own streaming
00:12:03 ◼ ► service. It's supposed to come early next year and they want to migrate all of their catalog
00:12:08 ◼ ► to that over time. So they had to negotiate sort of like, how does it leave Hulu? And then, um,
00:12:14 ◼ ► what Disney wants is they want to control where Hulu goes next. And so I thought one of the more
00:12:20 ◼ ► interesting parts of this deal is that even though Comcast isn't going to get all that money right
00:12:24 ◼ ► now, Comcast is, I believe, giving up control of Hulu right now. Their, their, uh, seats on the
00:12:30 ◼ ► board are going away. And that was as a founder, uh, cause a bunch of people have asked like, well,
00:12:35 ◼ ► they only own a third, so can't Disney do what they want? And the answer is no, because Comcast
00:12:39 ◼ ► was one of the founders. One of the joint venture agreements was that the founders had, uh, the
00:12:45 ◼ ► ability to veto any substantial change to the business model of Hulu. So Disney had to buy them
00:12:51 ◼ ► out. That was a, that was a provision that, that earned Comcast $6 billion. And, uh, and they're
00:12:58 ◼ ► stepping away from the control part of it now. So they're obviously they're winding down their,
00:13:02 ◼ ► their, um, uh, control of Hulu. Uh, they're going to get paid and their content will sort of slowly
00:13:08 ◼ ► drain off of Hulu, but, uh, they had to make all of those plans and figure out the timing and all
00:13:14 ◼ ► of that, which is what they did last week. Yeah. So it's 20 until 2024, right? Sort of five-year
00:13:19 ◼ ► period, um, NBC universal will continue to have content, but it's not going to be exclusive
00:13:25 ◼ ► necessarily anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So things, and some of it will probably go and be, you know,
00:13:30 ◼ ► it will be, it'll progressively drop off the service and until it's all gone, that's, that's
00:13:34 ◼ ► the goal. And that's fine because what Disney wants to do and people, especially outside the
00:13:38 ◼ ► U S might be saying, you know, what do I care? And the answer is this is another leg in Disney's
00:13:43 ◼ ► worldwide streaming strategy. So Hulu is in the U S and I think maybe in Canada, but Hulu is,
00:13:48 ◼ ► is not a big international streaming service now, but, um, just as Disney is launching Disney plus
00:13:54 ◼ ► in the U S the goal will be to take all of the content they control and put it everywhere in
00:14:00 ◼ ► the world. And a bunch of stuff needs to expire a bunch of, you know, different rights agreements
00:14:03 ◼ ► with different companies, including Netflix. Uh, but that's the ultimate goal. So Hulu,
00:14:09 ◼ ► when Disney changes it into a different streaming service, and it's going to be a streaming service
00:14:13 ◼ ► for the kind of content that doesn't fit in the Disney plus brand because the Disney plus brand
00:14:18 ◼ ► is going to be a bit more of a family friendly brand. It's got the Disney name on it. Hulu,
00:14:24 ◼ ► you know, they do own the best example I can give is they own FX and FX, X John Landgraf, who ran
00:14:30 ◼ ► those networks is now basically in charge of, uh, a content operation within Disney. They're going to
00:14:36 ◼ ► feed Hulu. Like they'll feed, they'll feed those cable channels for as long as cable channels exist,
00:14:40 ◼ ► I suppose, but their strategy there is larger, I think with Landgraf and it is to also make a
00:14:46 ◼ ► bunch of originals that are in that kind of vein, um, for Hulu. And I imagine there will be some
00:14:53 ◼ ► more adult skewing Marvel shows in there like we used to see on Netflix. Um, and who knows what
00:15:00 ◼ ► else from the Disney catalog, um, Disney owns a lot of stuff. Now Disney owns like, um, there was
00:15:06 ◼ ► that talk about doing a reboot or continuation of Buffy the vampire Slayer. That's a 20th century Fox
00:15:11 ◼ ► entertainment property, which means it's now owned by Disney. If they created that they could put it
00:15:15 ◼ ► on Disney plus or they could put it on Hulu and, um, you know, the X files, like there's all of
00:15:20 ◼ ► these catalogs stuff, but not just catalog stuff. Also, you know, new content that they can do based
00:15:26 ◼ ► on those franchises and the intellectual property of them as well as the backlogs of them. And
00:15:31 ◼ ► that's more important for Disney. And honestly, Disney is so huge and they own so much stuff that
00:15:34 ◼ ► one streaming service or two, cause they also have ESPN plus is not enough to fit all the stuff that
00:15:40 ◼ ► they've got. And it allows them to, I think, smartly differentiate between a service that's
00:15:44 ◼ ► going to feel more like an HBO, uh, more like a, a, a service geared toward adults than Disney plus,
00:15:50 ◼ ► which a lot of adults are going to like, but it, there is an implicit, uh, family friendliness there
00:15:55 ◼ ► that I think is also what Apple is going for. So, uh, yeah, we'll see how it plays out, but that's
00:16:00 ◼ ► why Hulu, uh, and Disney buying Hulu is more relevant even if you're outside the U S because
00:16:05 ◼ ► this is part of the overall Disney strategy and it will be coming to whatever country you're in
00:16:16 ◼ ► Stevenson has said they will be pulling their marquee back catalog shows from other streaming
00:16:20 ◼ ► services. Once they had their own Warner media offering, they called out friends and ER as
00:16:24 ◼ ► examples of these shows that will be going back to a Warner media. They've also shown strongly hinted
00:16:29 ◼ ► that shows like the office will move away from Netflix as well. This is not a surprise to anyone,
00:16:34 ◼ ► a problem for Netflix. I think, and the, I always, you always see this and we've spoken about this
00:16:39 ◼ ► before, you know, like shows like the office shows like friends because, uh, friends is the top two
00:16:45 ◼ ► shows on Netflix. And so, you know, that's going to be a problem for them because that I really
00:16:52 ◼ ► think that it is something that keeps a lot of people in these services. And I really wonder
00:16:57 ◼ ► what's what it's going to be like in a few years. I think this came up on the TV talk machine podcast
00:17:03 ◼ ► last week that I do with Tim Goodman from the Hollywood reporter. And, uh, it was a listener
00:17:07 ◼ ► question saying, um, is Netflix in trouble when they lose all the other content from all the other
00:17:14 ◼ ► services, all the other studios and his response was no, they have so much content and they've made
00:17:21 ◼ ► so much original content that they will, um, that they will be fine. I do. I, I don't entirely agree.
00:17:30 ◼ ► I think he's right. I think Netflix is so huge now that it would be very hard to, uh, seriously wound
00:17:35 ◼ ► Netflix. I think it's number one, but it will get hurt because people will lose their favorite shows.
00:17:41 ◼ ► It will hurt them. It won't kill them. Yeah. If you, if you get Netflix because you want to
00:17:46 ◼ ► stream the office endlessly, you will not be able to do that at some point. And you're going to need
00:17:51 ◼ ► to get, um, a different service. You're going to need to get, uh, NBC universal service for the
00:17:56 ◼ ► office. And that's just, that's just how it's going to be. If you want to watch friends,
00:18:00 ◼ ► you're going to need to get Warner media service, but Netflix has known this was coming. Netflix
00:18:05 ◼ ► has been planning from the day they started doing original programming. Netflix has been building a
00:18:09 ◼ ► catalog knowing that at some point they're going to lose all the licenses and that's what they've
00:18:14 ◼ ► been working on. Now, I would say that Netflix does still have a problem, which is that it has
00:18:21 ◼ ► not created a, you know, huge franchises. So it's got a big catalog, but there is some strength in
00:18:29 ◼ ► being able like Disney to say, we have star Wars and Marvel and Netflix has bought a bunch of, uh,
00:18:35 ◼ ► like comic book publishers and other things. They are trying to develop stuff like that,
00:18:39 ◼ ► but I don't beyond maybe something like stranger things, which is still just a show and not a
00:18:44 ◼ ► franchise. Like I think they have not been as successful at that part of it, which is why I
00:18:51 ◼ ► keep thinking that they need to be in the mix to buy some other studios. Yeah. There was, um,
00:19:01 ◼ ► that CBS and Viacom, uh, which are brother and sister companies basically are considering buying
00:19:16 ◼ ► we need more stuff. Um, but that there's going to still be some movement where stuff's going to get
00:19:21 ◼ ► bought out. CBS and Viacom might even get bought out. Um, I do think that that's a possible issue
00:19:25 ◼ ► for Netflix, but I think they, they are supremely confident in their ability to survive, but it's
00:19:30 ◼ ► going to be a different story. And the competition is going to be different. They're going to have to
00:19:33 ◼ ► compete completely on their originals, which they don't have to do now. And I think it will hurt
00:19:38 ◼ ► them, but like you said, it won't kill them. Yeah. It is interesting, right? That like Netflix
00:19:42 ◼ ► have created a bunch of great shows. They have not yet created anything which you could consider
00:19:48 ◼ ► a franchise yet. They may, but they have not done that yet. I mean, it's early days yet. They've
00:19:53 ◼ ► only been creating content for a few years, but what they haven't done is create something.
00:19:56 ◼ ► I, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but what strikes me is that they've got some licensed
00:20:01 ◼ ► content from franchises and Marvel is a good example of that, but that's all going to be
00:20:05 ◼ ► taken back by the mothership. I'm not sure there's something that is completely owned by Netflix that
00:20:11 ◼ ► is, uh, has a big fan base and that they can generate like multiple TV shows based on it or,
00:20:18 ◼ ► or movies or whatever that is going to be like, if you want this amazing thing, the only place you
00:20:24 ◼ ► can get it is Netflix and Disney can do that for star Wars and Marvel. Yeah. It's like they have
00:20:28 ◼ ► created like house of cards, great TV show, but like there's never going to be a spinoff, right?
00:20:33 ◼ ► Like it's just not like that. It's, it's not a world that they, that they've made. Um, and Amazon
00:20:40 ◼ ► have picked up the international streaming rights for CBS is Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek show. They
00:20:44 ◼ ► have more than 200 territories outside of the U S and Canada. They will have the episodes to
00:20:49 ◼ ► air with in 24 hours. This is interesting because they have this deal for Star Trek discovery
00:20:54 ◼ ► with Netflix. So, and my understanding is anything that is considered a spinoff of Star Trek discovery
00:21:01 ◼ ► is under that license, which means Netflix gets it outside of the U S and Canada, but Amazon stepped
00:21:06 ◼ ► up and presumably bid more than Netflix for, uh, the, the, uh, continuation of, uh, this character
00:21:16 ◼ ► from Star Trek, the next generation, this Patrick Stewart's captain from Star Trek, the next
00:21:19 ◼ ► generation. And they're doing a, uh, a new series. They're shooting it now, um, for airing later this
00:21:24 ◼ ► year. And, uh, so they're U S Canada deals the same CBS all access and the space channel and the
00:21:29 ◼ ► craze streaming service in Canada. Hi Canada. I learned what your streaming services are called.
00:21:34 ◼ ► Um, but everywhere else will be Amazon and not Netflix. And that, uh, to me that, that shows you
00:21:42 ◼ ► like Amazon has lots of international video ambitions too, and they kind of don't want to get
00:21:46 ◼ ► left out. And at least for now, CBS who has this franchise, doesn't have a product that they can
00:21:54 ◼ ► really roll out everywhere in the world. And so, um, as former CEO of CBS, Les Moonvis said a couple
00:22:01 ◼ ► of years ago, um, basically they got Netflix to fund Star Trek discovery, uh, by paying the
00:22:07 ◼ ► license fee. And then that essentially paid for the show or almost paid for the whole first season
00:22:12 ◼ ► of the show. Uh, which, which meant that they could just use it to launch their own streaming
00:22:16 ◼ ► service on the back of money from Netflix, the downside being that it's only in the U S so, um,
00:22:22 ◼ ► we'll see what happens in the long run there, but this is a big franchise that is willing to sell
00:22:32 ◼ ► And my understanding is Netflix has done really well with Star Trek discovery everywhere else in
00:22:35 ◼ ► the world. It's a, it's a Star Trek show that has probably been seen by way more people outside of
00:22:39 ◼ ► North America than in North America because it's, uh, on this niche streaming service here in the
00:22:45 ◼ ► U S and it's on Netflix everywhere else in the world. So anyway, if you want to see Patrick
00:22:58 ◼ ► I mean, it's a little bit like, it's a little bit like what Disney is, is doing or is going to do
00:23:05 ◼ ► where they're going to have Marvel shows on Disney. Plus if they have Marvel shows on Hulu as well,
00:23:10 ◼ ► they're sort of splitting the franchise. Like you really need both. Uh, but this is the case where,
00:23:14 ◼ ► yeah, yeah. Amazon has decided that they don't want Netflix to be the exclusive worldwide home
00:23:18 ◼ ► of Star Trek. And so they stepped in and, uh, I would be, yes, if I was only paying for one
00:23:24 ◼ ► service and I was a Star Trek fan, I would be frustrated by that. I am a Star Trek fan,
00:23:27 ◼ ► but I'm in the U S so I just have CBS all access. Today's episode is brought to you by a borough.
00:23:34 ◼ ► There is nothing quite like getting home after a long day, collapsing onto the sofa to relax
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00:25:31 ◼ ► So we have the draft next week. The draft is where we will pick the things that we think are most
00:25:37 ◼ ► likely going to happen, right? So we're going to get our points. That's what we're going for.
00:25:40 ◼ ► These are the things that we think of everything available. What do we think is most likely?
00:25:54 ◼ ► JAYLEE: Occasionally some wish casting sneaks into the draft, but those people are punished.
00:25:59 ◼ ► Whoever does that is punished, right? Because the draft is all about the possible and the probable,
00:26:05 ◼ ► and you're playing a game where you want to pick the sort of rumored or likely things that are most
00:26:11 ◼ ► likely, which does mean that the draft is all about kind of like what's going to happen next
00:26:18 ◼ ► week when we do it next week. But that doesn't let us, other than when I pick Spinal Tap on stage,
00:26:28 ◼ ► So it's available for next week. Thank you. The gamesmanship is already beginning. Anyway,
00:26:38 ◼ ► I thought that it would be, I thought this might be a fun thing to do the week before the draft,
00:26:42 ◼ ► which is talk a little bit about the stuff that we really, really would like to see in future
00:26:46 ◼ ► versions, if not this year, then, you know, at some point, what we would make us happy about iOS and
00:26:52 ◼ ► macOS that are maybe not the things that we're going to be able to pick next week because of our,
00:26:58 ◼ ► you know, our commitment to beating one another. Yeah. Like I have a, I have a small list of things
00:27:03 ◼ ► that I think are pretty esoteric. Like they're just like really important to me. So like one of
00:27:10 ◼ ► them I think is probably one that we both share is just far, far like a more improved audio support
00:27:20 ◼ ► on iOS. So just the ability to be able to like use an external audio device and have the audio
00:27:27 ◼ ► routed into two places. Right. So the idea being that like on the Mac, we could have a Skype call
00:27:32 ◼ ► and then use another application to record it. I feel like, um, this is something that gets lost
00:27:37 ◼ ► sometimes when we talk about storage stuff. Um, and we should mention that, uh, tomorrow, Tuesday,
00:27:43 ◼ ► I think Federico is posting a big story on Mac stories, uh, which I was doing my thoughts about
00:27:50 ◼ ► my wishlist before I read that story. Although now I feel like we're doing follow forward,
00:27:56 ◼ ► follow future. I don't know what it is where we're sort of like, uh, touching some of the same ground
00:28:02 ◼ ► that he touches, but, but when we talk about storage support, a lot of times what's going
00:28:06 ◼ ► on there is that it's somebody who's trying to record audio who ends up having to use an
00:28:09 ◼ ► external audio recorder because of all the limited iOS support for audio. And, um, and I think left
00:28:16 ◼ ► there on the floor that we need to talk about is iOS audio support is terrible. And by, by that,
00:28:22 ◼ ► what I mean is, um, and it's not just if you're a professional podcaster, but like different apps,
00:28:30 ◼ ► like you can't have two apps running using the microphone at one time. That is, that is really
00:28:35 ◼ ► annoying. Um, and would solve a lot of podcasting problems cause you could record your voice on one
00:28:40 ◼ ► app while also being on Skype on another app. But it's also stuff like I was, um, I was working on a
00:28:47 ◼ ► story or no, I was posting a podcast this weekend and, uh, I was exporting files out of ferrite and
00:28:53 ◼ ► ferrite has a microphone feature and the other apps do this too. The camera app does this if
00:28:58 ◼ ► it's in video mode, right? Where it's going to be recording audio. And if you're working and
00:29:03 ◼ ► listening to music, you basically can't when you're using apps that touch the sound system,
00:29:08 ◼ ► because the moment it touches the sound system, it pauses your audio and it pauses your music.
00:29:12 ◼ ► On my Mac, I can have music playing in a couple of different places and it just, they all play.
00:29:18 ◼ ► I can have different audio in different places. It all plays through and iOS is not, it does not
00:29:24 ◼ ► multitask audio. That's the fundamental thing. So we don't talk about it a lot because we focus on
00:29:28 ◼ ► things like, oh, I want to work, use a workaround, which gets me a file on an SD card, which should
00:29:33 ◼ ► be read by the files app. Yes, absolutely. But let's not leave out the larger thing here, which
00:29:39 ◼ ► is, um, a computing platform this powerful should probably have the ability to route audio better
00:29:45 ◼ ► than iOS does. And, and it's just not been something that Apple has given any attention to,
00:29:49 ◼ ► um, anytime recently. So that's high up on my dream list that will almost certainly not come true.
00:29:56 ◼ ► Yeah. It's like you look at that and it's like, well, we feel like at some point it probably
00:30:01 ◼ ► will happen, but then we think about all of the other things that really are more important,
00:30:05 ◼ ► right? Like, which is most of the stuff that we'll talk about next week for sure. And those things
00:30:11 ◼ ► are going to come first. Like this can't be, I can't imagine this being that high up on anybody's
00:30:17 ◼ ► feature list because it hasn't changed in so long that it doesn't necessarily feel like there's going
00:30:24 ◼ ► to be a pressing reason to change it. Right. But if you've ever like been listening to audio and
00:30:29 ◼ ► then switched to the camera app and video was selected and had your audio stop, it's like,
00:30:34 ◼ ► that's why, why, why does that or garage band or, you know, it's just, that's yeah, it's just,
00:30:41 ◼ ► they need to fix it. And so another one for me is whilst I will re I really want to see some
00:30:48 ◼ ► significant work on shortcuts just like in general, because I don't, I fear for this. I will
00:30:54 ◼ ► consistently fear for it coming to an end. I will feel like it's going to be something I'm always
00:31:00 ◼ ► worried about, but I would like to see the ability to trigger shortcuts without my intervention.
00:31:05 ◼ ► So time, location, you know, like some, some way to have some hooks into that system, which don't
00:31:14 ◼ ► aren't necessarily me pressing a button. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because then I could have little
00:31:19 ◼ ► things that happen at certain times of the day, right? Like I could have, yeah, without me needing
00:31:25 ◼ ► to, cause there are shortcuts that I trigger every day around the same kind of time. Well,
00:31:30 ◼ ► I don't need to be involved in that process. Right. I mean, this is your, your morning. I mean,
00:31:33 ◼ ► they could get more intelligent too, but like even a morning routine that kicks off at a certain time
00:31:43 ◼ ► another version of that would be being able to bind a keyboard shortcut that's available
00:31:48 ◼ ► everywhere or in a particular app that kicks off a shortcut. Um, that would be something that I
00:31:53 ◼ ► would love too, because there are, uh, and I have that on my Mac, right? There are keyboard
00:31:57 ◼ ► shortcuts that work the same everywhere and kick off something on my Mac. And there are other ones
00:32:01 ◼ ► that are for a particular app and you can't have that level of customization on iOS. Give me
00:32:08 ◼ ► something else that you would love to see. Um, I'm trying to, I, this is like a reverse draft. I don't
00:32:12 ◼ ► want to pick something that's, that's, uh, that's super obvious. Um, so let's talk about external
00:32:18 ◼ ► displays. Cause I actually think that this is a case where their Apple's not going to give me what
00:32:21 ◼ ► I want, which is, um, I would like to be able to attach an iPad to an external display and have it
00:32:28 ◼ ► work, not in an app outputting to a second display mode, like a keynote presentation kind of thing,
00:32:35 ◼ ► not mirroring, but apps running on an external display. I would, you know, most particularly like
00:32:41 ◼ ► two things to enable that one is external pointing device support, which may actually happen.
00:32:45 ◼ ► And the other thing is, and this is probably not going to happen, but this is what I want,
00:32:49 ◼ ► which is I want support for external touch screen devices so that I can attach my iPad or phone even
00:32:59 ◼ ► to a, uh, touch screen of whatever size and put apps on it and have it work. This is effectively
00:33:06 ◼ ► the model of attaching a Mac pro to a monitor and having a keyboard and mouse, right? Like it's
00:33:12 ◼ ► that idea of like, all you're doing is you want the same experience, but you want it on a bigger
00:33:18 ◼ ► screen. Right. So like you could have this, basically you would be using a very large iPad,
00:33:25 ◼ ► but it's kind of being like, it's all just running from the small one, but it's in a docked mode or
00:33:32 ◼ ► whatever. And there's lots of issues, right? Because are touch screens made by third parties,
00:33:36 ◼ ► especially, you know, are they good enough? I don't know. Are there external touch screens that
00:33:42 ◼ ► are multi-touch that are going to give you the quality of a touch screen experience? Probably.
00:33:47 ◼ ► I would guess, right? Since Windows has been able to do touch for a long time. I just don't know,
00:33:50 ◼ ► cause I don't have any experience with running an external touch screen on Windows. Right.
00:33:54 ◼ ► Even greater though, like Apple supports this and it makes their own. Well, that's, that's,
00:34:04 ◼ ► external touch screen support to iOS and rolls out new monitors, the new monitors could be
00:34:08 ◼ ► touch screens. And then maybe they also add touch screen support to macOS, but even if they don't
00:34:12 ◼ ► initially, it wouldn't matter if you can attach an iOS device to those screens. Now they're touch
00:34:18 ◼ ► screens. That's my, that's my big kind of touch conspiracy theory is you bring touch to the Mac,
00:34:25 ◼ ► you make the external displays touch screens. They're of a quality of touch screen that iPads
00:34:31 ◼ ► are and iOS devices can also drive them and put their apps on them. And then you're using that.
00:34:37 ◼ ► And then, you know, hopefully they're made in a mode where you can like lower them and have
00:34:40 ◼ ► them be in a more ergonomically correct kind of environment. And then separately, you know,
00:34:44 ◼ ► from the touch conspiracy is external pointing device support and external monitor support.
00:34:50 ◼ ► So that if I want to sit at my desk with an iPad, um, I can throw an app up on the screen up there
00:34:58 ◼ ► and still actually be able to use it because I can use a keyboard and a mouse for it in that mode.
00:35:03 ◼ ► And then I can disconnect and it goes back to being on my main iPad screen and uses touch and
00:35:08 ◼ ► that we should be able to do both. The idea of advances to iPad multitasking is one that everyone
00:35:14 ◼ ► is talking about, right? Like it's, we're expecting to see some kind of refinement to that system,
00:35:19 ◼ ► but a very specific thing that I would like, uh, is for more keyboard shortcuts to exist
00:35:24 ◼ ► on multitasking. You know, this is something that gray first talked about it. This was like
00:35:30 ◼ ► when iOS 11 came out the idea of like when you do a spotlight search, which is a keyboard related
00:35:36 ◼ ► thing, and you scroll down to the app that you want, why should there not be a way to then open
00:35:42 ◼ ► that app into like the left view or the right view or into a slide over with a keyboard shortcut
00:35:47 ◼ ► on that option. That would be incredible. It makes it's where my hands already are to perform
00:35:53 ◼ ► the search that I need to perform. Right. So like, especially because if you have a keyboard,
00:35:58 ◼ ► like spotlight is a different experience anyway, because you can't call spotlight from the system
00:36:06 ◼ ► anywhere except with a external keyboard, right? Like you have to go to the home screen to bring
00:36:15 ◼ ► up spotlight, but if you have an external keyboard, you can press command space and you can bring up
00:36:19 ◼ ► that view to do the search. Right. So this is already like its own special additional pro user
00:36:27 ◼ ► feature, but then you still have to make your search and then touch the screen. Like it seems
00:36:33 ◼ ► like this, this weird, like let me just complete this whole interaction using the keyboard, which
00:36:39 ◼ ► is the only way I got here in the first place. Um, so I would love, I would absolutely love to
00:36:44 ◼ ► see that and larger multitasking things that I'm not a hundred percent sure are going to be
00:36:52 ◼ ► clearly showing what the focus is, especially because if you're using a keyboard, I cannot
00:36:59 ◼ ► tell you how many times I am in a text editing app and Safari in split view. And I hit command L
00:37:06 ◼ ► because I want to load a new URL in Safari. And instead it kicks off whatever command L is in my
00:37:12 ◼ ► text editor, which is not what I want. Now I have to undo, undo, and then I have to tap over in
00:37:16 ◼ ► Safari and it's like, I want to see at a glance what the, you know, focus pain is or whatever you
00:37:26 ◼ ► want to call it. And ideally have a keyboard shortcut to go to the other one. Yep. So that
00:37:32 ◼ ► then I can issue a keyboard shortcut in that app. And, uh, we can't do that right now. So
00:37:38 ◼ ► I'll talk it about a keyboard shortcut to go to another app, please fix whatever you did with the
00:37:43 ◼ ► command tab switcher, which after two years, I still don't understand. Like when I hit command
00:37:48 ◼ ► tab, Oh yeah. Sometimes apps that should be in there are just not in there. And I can't
00:37:53 ◼ ► apps that are called by other apps. Don't end up in the command tab, which I have that happen all
00:37:58 ◼ ► the time where I'm like, I'm in Safari and then I'm back in a text editor. And then, and, uh,
00:38:03 ◼ ► then I go back into command tab to look for Safari and it's not there. And it's because Safari was
00:38:08 ◼ ► it launched in a way that the command tab apps, which are Danes acceptable. So it's like, Nope,
00:38:15 ◼ ► that didn't happen. Let me tell you that app. I don't see that as acceptable. Like just whatever
00:38:19 ◼ ► it is that you need to do, just do like do it. It should be every app. If an app is in my face,
00:38:25 ◼ ► it should be in the command tab switcher then right. It shouldn't, there should not ever be
00:38:29 ◼ ► an exception to that. No, like that a hundred percent. I, it's like, I know that there is a,
00:38:35 ◼ ► like, like a set kind of rule system as to what goes in there, but I can never remember it.
00:38:43 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. Let me, um, throw out, you mentioned shortcuts. Let me throw out some other shortcuts,
00:38:50 ◼ ► okay. Things that I want, some of which I think will happen. And some of which I think will
00:39:07 ◼ ► which you can't do now to say, you know, um, set my scene to blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah,
00:39:14 ◼ ► blah gets passed to a shortcut for set my scene like that. Right. That's what I want. I want to
00:39:21 ◼ ► be able to put essentially variables in commands using Siri shortcuts. Um, I want shortcuts to run.
00:39:27 ◼ ► You listed a bunch of things. I'm not sure if you mentioned these or not, but I want shortcuts to be
00:39:31 ◼ ► able to run hidden where I don't see them at all. I want them to run with a, or with a minimal
00:39:36 ◼ ► interface where I can see that a shortcut is running. But what I don't want is to keep going
00:39:41 ◼ ► back to the shortcuts app and having essentially the code of the shortcut open and then very
00:39:46 ◼ ► quickly walk through it. It is a really bad experience as a user. I know why it happens.
00:39:52 ◼ ► It's because of the way that these app apps communicate with one another. You have to do it,
00:39:57 ◼ ► but this is now an Apple owned app. It should just be able to run invisibly, essentially,
00:40:02 ◼ ► or backgrounded and just give me some minor interface indication that it's running a shortcut.
00:40:06 ◼ ► I want folders in the shortcuts app. Everybody wants that who uses shortcuts because there's,
00:40:12 ◼ ► it's, uh, we, you and I both know people who have hundreds of shortcuts and there's no organizational
00:40:17 ◼ ► principle to them. It's ridiculous. And if they don't want folders, then filter based on color
00:40:21 ◼ ► or filter based on tag or something, but there's gotta be an organizational principle there
00:40:25 ◼ ► somewhere. And the big thing, and this is a thing that I, again, I think isn't going to happen,
00:40:29 ◼ ► but I want it to happen. And it goes back to some things we've talked about here before
00:40:32 ◼ ► Brent Simmons wrote a post about how great Apple events were. Apple events were invented in
00:40:36 ◼ ► system seven back in like 1990. They're very old and that's the background app communication
00:40:42 ◼ ► standard on the Mac today. Um, I, I don't think Apple events as a thing is ever going to come
00:40:47 ◼ ► to iOS because it is, there's probably a new way of doing that technology that takes into account
00:40:53 ◼ ► what software is like now, instead of in 1990. That said, having a way for apps, both on the Mac
00:41:00 ◼ ► and on iOS to pass information back and forth that doesn't involve embedding them in URL strings,
00:41:10 ◼ ► it gets to some of these things like shortcuts coming to the foreground when it's running,
00:41:15 ◼ ► other apps that are being asked to do a task coming to the foreground. It makes it a really
00:41:20 ◼ ► ugly experience doing automation on iOS, but it's the only way to do it right now is you call a URL.
00:41:27 ◼ ► It's handled by an app. The URL gets passed to that app. That app launches. It looks at the URL.
00:41:32 ◼ ► It does some stuff. Maybe then it launches a different app. There's an X callback URL or
00:41:36 ◼ ► whatever. And you end up with this just dance of apps. And you know, it's got to stop. And the way
00:41:41 ◼ ► it stops is that there's an official sanctioned way for apps to talk to each other and send each
00:41:45 ◼ ► other commands and get data back from them. And, you know, safe, secure, permissions, all of those
00:41:51 ◼ ► things should be there in a modern version of this. Apple spent time locking down a lot of Apple
00:41:56 ◼ ► script and other automation stuff on the Mac for security reasons. Great. A modern version of this
00:42:01 ◼ ► would take all the security stuff into account. But what's there now, while powerful, is a
00:42:13 ◼ ► And Apple needs to fix it. One thing that I feel like I will ask for forever but will never get is
00:42:18 ◼ ► better rich text support. Like I just, if I just want to be able to take a bulleted list from one
00:42:25 ◼ ► app, copy it and paste it into another app and remain a bulleted list. Sometimes it works. Most
00:42:30 ◼ ► of the time it doesn't. Even amongst Apple's own apps, it's not just a Google Docs thing.
00:42:35 ◼ ► There is rich text frameworks on iOS, but nobody seems to use them for whatever reason. Like,
00:42:42 ◼ ► I just want my text formatting to be as reliable on iOS as it is on the Mac. I feel like this
00:42:49 ◼ ► shouldn't be a hard thing. Right? Like I feel like this shouldn't have to be as hard as it is.
00:42:54 ◼ ► But it is. And I really wish that it wasn't. I've lost count of the amount of time. And I would hate
00:43:04 ◼ ► to know the actual amount of time I have spent converting bulleted lists back to bulleted lists
00:43:10 ◼ ► and other applications. Like I really just, please, somebody, someone out there must be able to
00:43:16 ◼ ► do something about this. Please help me. That's all I want. How about this one, Myke? You'll like
00:43:23 ◼ ► this. I wrote a little piece about this a while ago. Apple Pencil is input mechanism. I want,
00:43:29 ◼ ► and this is another thing I don't think Apple's ever going to do, but Apple Pencil is great.
00:43:34 ◼ ► There are cases, I even have cases, Myke. I was editing a podcast in Fairlight using the Apple
00:43:38 ◼ ► Pencil this weekend and I was adding some chapter markers. And I had this moment where I was like,
00:43:55 ◼ ► this is why we need Apple Pencil as an input mechanism for text in iOS, which is I should
00:44:02 ◼ ► be able to write that text. And then it should be able, this is Newton stuff people. And it should
00:44:07 ◼ ► go where I want it to go. I should be able to write text on the screen or whether it's anywhere
00:44:12 ◼ ► on the screen or it's in a kind of quote unquote keyboard, that's actually a text entry area.
00:44:16 ◼ ► I should be able to do that and have it go in the text entry box where the little cursor is
00:44:20 ◼ ► blinking in iOS. And it's ridiculous that I can't do that because that's a mode shift that I
00:44:25 ◼ ► shouldn't have to make. I'm entering text in a text box. I am holding a pencil. We should be
00:44:30 ◼ ► able to connect these two things, but I don't have the opportunity to do that. All I have is
00:44:33 ◼ ► the opportunity to tap on a software keyboard. So I want Apple to say, hey, pencil users, yes,
00:44:41 ◼ ► you can write words and they will be translated into text as you write them, just like on a Palm
00:44:48 ◼ ► Pilot or a Newton. And again, a similar vein. I feel like I know this limitation. I'm not too
00:44:56 ◼ ► bothered about the fact that it exists, but I would love it if they fixed it, which is the fact that
00:45:01 ◼ ► like the Apple pencil cannot interact with system level controls. So you can't use the Apple pencil
00:45:09 ◼ ► to trigger notification center, control center. You can't use it to adjust the size of any
00:45:15 ◼ ► applications in split view, like to move the little chiclet around, right? You can't do any
00:45:21 ◼ ► of that. You've never been able to do it. You can't use it to swipe up to bring the dock up.
00:45:24 ◼ ► I think I would like those things. I feel like I understand that sometimes it could actually make
00:45:30 ◼ ► some collisions. And if that's the reason that they don't do it, like that, you know, you have your
00:45:35 ◼ ► pen and you're accidentally changing the size of your application, then I get it. But if that
00:45:38 ◼ ► isn't the reason and it's just some kind of like methodology, right? Like, oh, you should never be
00:45:44 ◼ ► able to use this. Like, no, I would like to be able to change the size of an application in split
00:45:49 ◼ ► view with the Apple pencil. Like that would be great. I would love that. But that's like a real
00:45:54 ◼ ► small one for me because it's one that doesn't bother me that much, but I wouldn't mind if it
00:45:59 ◼ ► existed. Here's one that I've got, which is, again, it's part of some things that may come true,
00:46:04 ◼ ► but I think there's other stuff that is not going to come true. And it's in that list of
00:46:08 ◼ ► files stuff needs to be better. You know, we may get USB storage support. Boy, I hope we do. We
00:46:14 ◼ ► may get native server support where you can just put in an SMB server and connect to it instead of
00:46:19 ◼ ► having to use a third-party app to do that. But there are some other things that are hanging out
00:46:23 ◼ ► there. Creating folders in various places is something you can't do depending on where you
00:46:29 ◼ ► are and what the folder is. There are places where you literally, you can save a document,
00:46:34 ◼ ► but you can't make a folder and then save the document in it. It's maddening. It makes me not
00:46:39 ◼ ► want to use iCloud drive. It makes me not want to use the files app. I hate it. And then the other
00:46:44 ◼ ► part of this is the on my device folder, the on my iPad, on my iPhone folder, which is a place,
00:46:49 ◼ ► by the way, where you can't make, you can put files and on the Mac, you can make folders,
00:46:54 ◼ ► but you can't do it on iOS. And this is one of those cases where it's so close and they just
00:47:00 ◼ ► need to push it over the line. But because it doesn't quite work right, people think it doesn't
00:47:11 ◼ ► agreed that it would be really good if there was a place for you to save files on your device on iOS
00:47:16 ◼ ► that didn't sync them to the cloud. And I'm just beating my head against the wall while I'm
00:47:20 ◼ ► listening to this because there absolutely is. It's on my iPhone or on my iPad. It's right there in
00:47:26 ◼ ► the files app listed as a provider. The problem is it doesn't behave right. And it's got a list of
00:47:32 ◼ ► apps in it that have decided to make folders there, but you can't make a folder there or just drop a
00:47:37 ◼ ► file in on my device. You have to drop it in a folder in on my device and then remember where
00:47:43 ◼ ► you put it for later. And it's just, it's ridiculous. And that's, that's a case where I feel
00:47:48 ◼ ► like they're very close and maybe they will do this, but I'm so dispirited. It's so bad now that
00:47:55 ◼ ► I'm a little dispirited that they don't understand what they're doing with this one and what people
00:48:01 ◼ ► want from it. But when fairly tech savvy people think you literally have no place to save files
00:48:06 ◼ ► on an iPad that doesn't sync with iCloud drive, you have made a mistake somewhere along the line
00:48:14 ◼ ► - Is there anything else you wanted to call out? - One last thing, which is in the wildest of wild,
00:48:28 ◼ ► actual multiple faces. So you can say, this is my face. This is my child's face. This is my
00:48:34 ◼ ► wife's face, whatever it is. These are other faces in the family. Please let them unlock the phone
00:48:39 ◼ ► without training there. You know, you can do it now, but you're sort of training a face that's an
00:48:47 ◼ ► amalgam of existing faces. And I worry that it leads to complexity and brokenness eventually.
00:48:53 ◼ ► I want explicit support for multiple faces and more wildly, especially of use on iPads,
00:48:59 ◼ ► explicit support for multiple users with those faces so that I can set up an iPad with a couple
00:49:05 ◼ ► of kids or with a kid and an adult and have it work, whether it's a faces or face ID or a touch
00:49:12 ◼ ► ID on older iPads. It still kills me that there isn't any way to set up a shared device on iOS.
00:49:20 ◼ ► And I don't think this is a priority for Apple. They just want you to buy more devices. But there
00:49:24 ◼ ► are so many examples when you throw in a screen time and other parental controls. The fact is that
00:49:30 ◼ ► there are iOS devices that are shared and Apple makes you pretend that they're not. And it's
00:49:36 ◼ ► frustrating. So if you've heard us give these lists and you're like, why didn't they talk about
00:49:46 ◼ ► we don't think these things are going to happen, but we'd love it if they did. That is what this
00:49:58 ◼ ► If we have to. Today let me talk about our second sponsor for this episode, and that is
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00:52:01 ◼ ► - Yeah, I mean, it's harder to build this. This is a shorter thing because so much of it is like,
00:52:07 ◼ ► look, obviously Marzipan is gonna happen, right? Marzipan. So some of my stuff is Marzipan related,
00:52:14 ◼ ► but like one of the things they said last year in I think maybe the State of the Union that I keep
00:52:33 ◼ ► you need the APIs, you need all that stuff to be pretty consistent across Mac OS and iOS if
00:52:38 ◼ ► you're going to have a unified app platform on top of it. I think that has to follow. I think that
00:52:46 ◼ ► they're still doing that. And so maybe there'll be a draft pick in here, who knows? But overall,
00:53:04 ◼ ► Yes, of course, maybe the rumors are parental controls and screen time stuff syncing up and
00:53:13 ◼ ► getting a new messages app, but what about like support for cellular devices? That's not a thing
00:53:18 ◼ ► that is in Mac OS, but it's an iOS. Does the system preferences app finally become a settings
00:53:24 ◼ ► app? But I think more broadly, what I wanna just say is I want to see more sync ups that we haven't
00:53:31 ◼ ► thought of. I would like somebody at Apple to have gone through Mac OS and iOS and compiled a list of
00:53:36 ◼ ► things that the Mac does one way and iOS does a completely different way and say, how do we make
00:53:41 ◼ ► this that there's one way that our platforms do this? And I think we'll probably see some of that,
00:53:46 ◼ ► but I think that needs to keep happening because as you unify these platforms, the worst thing is
00:53:52 ◼ ► that you go from platform A to platform B and suddenly it's like, well, it just doesn't do that
00:53:56 ◼ ► that way. It does it this other way. Well, why? I don't know. Like if there's a good reason,
00:54:01 ◼ ► there's a good reason. Great. Like if you've got a good reason, well, the Mac is different because
00:54:07 ◼ ► it's got this keyboard and trackpad already there and it's got a menu bar and therefore it has to be
00:54:12 ◼ ► this way. I'm fine with it, but I think a lot of stuff it's gonna be, well, this grew from this
00:54:16 ◼ ► direction and this grew from that direction and therefore they are different. And I guess what
00:54:20 ◼ ► I'd say is I'm kind of over the difference for differences sake. If they do the same thing in
00:54:27 ◼ ► the same way, they should be the same on both platforms. Yeah. I think like as well, it's
00:54:36 ◼ ► important to note, right? Like that they can meet in the middle or go one way or another way, right?
00:54:41 ◼ ► Like I know that what you're not trying to say here is the Mac should do everything like iOS,
00:54:45 ◼ ► like the iOS. iOS in theory could do things that are more like the Mac way of doing them,
00:54:50 ◼ ► right? But it's about like finding a place which makes the most sense. If something's gonna do,
00:54:55 ◼ ► if you're gonna make it look like it should be the same thing, make it work the same way.
00:54:59 ◼ ► Yep. I struggled really to think of Mac OS stuff that I want that isn't like super obvious stuff,
00:55:05 ◼ ► right? Like Mazapan or Screen Time, which are things that I really want. But the one thing that
00:55:12 ◼ ► I did think about that I'm just interested to see how it ends up playing out is the idea of
00:55:35 ◼ ► basically increasing the amount of developers that they have on the Mac App Store because
00:55:40 ◼ ► if you're not there, it's gonna be a problem for you. Like for example, Mazapan, right? Like I
00:55:46 ◼ ► really, I mean, I reckon that if you want to bring your iOS app to the Mac, you will be putting it
00:55:50 ◼ ► through the Mac App Store. Like that is the way you would do this. And so that makes it for a lot
00:55:56 ◼ ► of developers, right? It's like, well, this, I will have to use the Mac App Store because there's
00:55:59 ◼ ► no other way to do it. I would just be keen to see them try and do something. I don't know what,
00:56:04 ◼ ► to make it more friendly to that community a little bit more as a way instead of just being
00:56:12 ◼ ► like, well, we've got all these great new features, you should be in the Mac App Store if you want to
00:56:17 ◼ ► use them. That's it. The end of that. Do you know what I mean? I think this is a path that they're
00:56:21 ◼ ► going down, right? Like the whole message about panic and bare bones that was on stage last year
00:56:26 ◼ ► is them saying, you know, we are making changes and they have made changes. I think for you,
00:56:33 ◼ ► what you want is for them to say, we're making more, even more changes to what apps are able to
00:56:39 ◼ ► do and still be in the Mac App Store. And I think, I think Apple is doing this two-pronged approach,
00:56:46 ◼ ► right? Where they are building security things that allow apps to ask for more access. And if
00:56:55 ◼ ► they abide by that, they get in the Mac App Store. Things that were previously just not allowed. Now
00:57:00 ◼ ► there's a way to ask and you can ask and you can be approved by the App Store and you ask the user
00:57:06 ◼ ► and the user says yes, and then they get to do their thing. And then the other prong is if you're,
00:57:12 ◼ ► if you can't be in the App Store, they're adding these security features on the outside for being
00:57:18 ◼ ► able to sign apps and notarize apps and things like that. And they are doing both. And I think
00:57:25 ◼ ► they are doing both. And I think that's good because the, I think there will probably always be
00:57:30 ◼ ► a need for Mac apps that are outside the Mac App Store, at least in the near term. But the way you
00:57:38 ◼ ► get more people in the Mac App Store in part is by making it that they don't have to redesign their
00:57:42 ◼ ► app in order to get in there. And that means continuing to add ways that Mac apps can ask
00:57:49 ◼ ► for permission and have it be granted, which they seem to be paying attention to now in a way that
00:57:56 ◼ ► they weren't for the first few years of the Mac App Store, where they really had very limited
00:57:59 ◼ ► permissions you could ask. And then there were a set of rules and you were either in or you were
00:58:04 ◼ ► out. What else do you have for the Mac? Well, so more broadly, I guess I would say, I want,
00:58:13 ◼ ► I'll kind of roll this together into one thing. I want old Mac apps to be able to act like new Mac
00:58:19 ◼ ► apps. And I want new Mac apps to be able to act like old Mac apps. I want them both. I want as
00:58:26 ◼ ► much as possible, and this is the wish casting part because I don't think it's going to be able
00:58:29 ◼ ► to happen. It's certainly not in year one. I want as a user to not feel like I am using app style
00:58:38 ◼ ► A and app style B. I would like developers of old style Mac apps to be able to do stuff that the new
00:58:45 ◼ ► style apps have access to. I want them Siri shortcuts is a good example. If they're going to
00:58:50 ◼ ► be Siri shortcuts on the Mac and they only work in marzipan, as the rumor is, like, I don't like that.
00:58:55 ◼ ► I want bare bones to be able to take BB at it and add something to it that gives it access to
00:59:02 ◼ ► Siri shortcuts, even if it's through a specific mechanism or they have to add something, they have
00:59:06 ◼ ► to learn how to do stuff that previously only iOS developers have to do. I just want a pathway for
00:59:12 ◼ ► them so that they can have their app and actually have it have access to the new features rather
00:59:18 ◼ ► than having it be barred from anything new because that'll only be if you're on the other side of the
00:59:23 ◼ ► fence. And that includes, yeah, so like not just Siri shortcuts, but shortcuts in general. Like,
00:59:30 ◼ ► I want, if they bring shortcuts the app to the Mac, I want old Mac apps to be able to find a way
00:59:35 ◼ ► to support them. Even if, yes, it will take more work and maybe they won't be willing, but maybe
00:59:40 ◼ ► they will. Maybe they want to be a full-fledged Mac citizen and this is now a part of it. This
00:59:44 ◼ ► is the new automation system of the, it's the automation system of the future on the Mac, get
00:59:49 ◼ ► on board now. We can't rewrite our app to be a marzipan app, but what we can do is do the work to
00:59:54 ◼ ► get this supported. I want to see that. On the other side of the fence, I want these marzipan
01:00:01 ◼ ► apps to have as many tools as possible for them to feel like Mac apps and not a weird iOS app that's
01:00:08 ◼ ► stuck in a window. And I know that some of that will happen, but the more the better. And beyond
01:00:15 ◼ ► that, I do, this automation schism that's out there, like I want a way to control those apps.
01:00:23 ◼ ► And that could be a, I don't know what that is. Maybe it's shortcuts and maybe there's a way to
01:00:30 ◼ ► control shortcuts from the other side and that can be the bridge. But it's another one of those
01:00:34 ◼ ► examples where I don't want the marzipan app to feel weird. I know it's going to be a little weird,
01:00:40 ◼ ► but if I'm going to have a wish here, my wish is going to be that old Mac apps are over here and
01:00:48 ◼ ► marzipan apps are over here and I want them to be in the middle. I want the old stuff to be able to
01:00:54 ◼ ► pick up some of the new and I want the new stuff to be able to at least bridge the gap with the old
01:01:00 ◼ ► somehow so that as somebody working on the Mac, I can use them interchangeably and not have it be
01:01:07 ◼ ► really weird because all of a sudden this behavior is different because this must be app type B
01:01:13 ◼ ► instead of app type A, because I think that is going to be a very, very bad user experience on
01:01:18 ◼ ► the Mac. So the more Apple can do to make apps just feel like apps on the Mac, the better.
01:01:25 ◼ ► - Yeah, I don't really think that it helps anybody to make this class of application feel lesser than
01:01:36 ◼ ► - It's a very good point. Yeah, either class. - I mean, that's how I feel is that it's just users,
01:01:42 ◼ ► fundamentally users should not have to know, "Oh, this is a marzipan app. I use it like this,"
01:01:49 ◼ ► because they're not going to know, right? They're not going to know. And so, and I bring some baggage
01:01:56 ◼ ► here from the OS X transition and from the carbon and cocoa era of apps where they really did behave
01:02:04 ◼ ► differently. Like there was an era in there where like drag and drop wasn't the same and it was
01:02:10 ◼ ► infuriating because you get your muscle memory about how to use your computer and then you do
01:02:15 ◼ ► something and it's like, "Why didn't that work?" And the answer is because of the method by which
01:02:22 ◼ ► that application was developed, which is different from the method by which this other application
01:02:27 ◼ ► was developed. And as a user, I don't care. I just want it to work. So consistency, I think this is
01:02:32 ◼ ► going to be the hardest thing. I don't think they're going to get it right the first time.
01:02:35 ◼ ► I think it's going to take time. I think it's going to take a lot of work on Apple's part.
01:02:41 ◼ ► here a little bit. That is my big wish cast, which is you got to get the Mac platform to
01:02:46 ◼ ► feel consistent. We can talk about what we would like to see on the Mac. And there are people who've
01:02:53 ◼ ► been using the Mac a long time who said, "I don't want it to look like iOS," or iOS users who are
01:02:57 ◼ ► like, "Yeah, it could look more like iOS." Apple as a platform owner is going to sort of land on
01:03:02 ◼ ► a place of like, "Here's what we want the Mac to look like in five years or three years or whatever."
01:03:08 ◼ ► Apple's going to make some decisions. It's probably going to integrate more iOS concepts
01:03:12 ◼ ► than the Mac currently has. But for me, number one is, can we make it consistent? Because what
01:03:20 ◼ ► I don't want is weird app type A if you're used to app type B or vice versa. I don't want that.
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01:05:51 ◼ ► thank you very much. And our first question comes from Tim and we got this from a bunch of people,
01:05:59 ◼ ► what is the likelihood that there will be a WWDC event inside the campus? And so Apple built this
01:06:06 ◼ ► stage. It seems like it's a permanent thing, but I don't know that because they had basically
01:06:18 ◼ ► official opening of the Apple Park campus itself and also a celebration tribute for Steve Jobs,
01:06:25 ◼ ► where they had Lady Gaga perform last week, which looked like to be like quite an event.
01:06:34 ◼ ► stage, which looked really amazing. So do you think that this will be purposed for any WWDC event?
01:06:40 ◼ ► I don't. I think it's a temporary thing and they'll take it down and then that'll be it.
01:06:45 ◼ ► That this was for this event and it shows that Apple can do an all company event at the center
01:06:51 ◼ ► of Apple Park. And that's a nice thing, but I doubt that it's their intent. And I also really
01:06:56 ◼ ► doubt that they have any desire to get the attendees of WWDC inside the ring. It would be
01:07:02 ◼ ► amazing. Let me just say it would be amazing, but logistically and security wise, they have a venue
01:07:13 ◼ ► that they can do in San Jose that they've done the last few years that was fine. My guess is that
01:07:18 ◼ ► that's going to be good enough for them, but wouldn't it be? So I would say this is like a
01:07:23 ◼ ► theme of this episode is it could happen and wouldn't that be amazing, but I can't believe
01:07:30 ◼ ► that it would ever happen. I can't imagine Apple wanting to have to deal with all of those people
01:07:38 ◼ ► in their campus. I just can't imagine them wanting to have to go through that. Where it's just like,
01:07:43 ◼ ► now we have all these people that really care and they're all here. We would prefer nobody to ever
01:07:50 ◼ ► be here and now we brought them all here. It just feels like, why? Why would you do it? You can't
01:07:58 ◼ ► visit. No one can visit ever. So why would you bring everybody in? No, I can't imagine it happening.
01:08:05 ◼ ► I also think that even though that looks like an incredibly well-made and beautifully structured
01:08:09 ◼ ► stage, that it will be gone soon. Like, why would they keep it? They could just build it again if
01:08:14 ◼ ► they need it. Yeah, no, the goal of that campus is to have a park in the center of it, not to have
01:08:20 ◼ ► a stage in the center of it. Wylance asks, do you know if subscribing to a channel through the new
01:08:27 ◼ ► TV app in iOS 12.3, so this is like the channels feature of the new TV app, will give you access
01:08:33 ◼ ► to the same service via the web? For example, if you subscribe to HBO Now via the TV app,
01:08:39 ◼ ► can you then log in online on the Mac where there is yet no TV app like on the HBO website
01:08:45 ◼ ► and watch the content? Do you know this? It is up in the air here, so I think this is something
01:08:54 ◼ ► Apple's rolling out slowly. Pretty sure you can't use it on the Mac right now, right? Because there's
01:09:00 ◼ ► no TV app on the Mac yet. There will be, but it's not here yet. There will be, and I saw something
01:09:06 ◼ ► go by where somebody suggested that this is something that HBO is going to connect, but it's
01:09:14 ◼ ► really kind of up for everybody to get their story straight. I will say that I subscribed to CBS All
01:09:20 ◼ ► Access this year for Start of Discovery through Amazon Prime Channels, and for a while I could
01:09:27 ◼ ► log into the CBS website or use the CBS app, and then I couldn't anymore, and it started to act
01:09:32 ◼ ► like I wasn't a subscriber anymore, and I had only used the Amazon app after that. And I think, I
01:09:42 ◼ ► feel like this is where we are right now is it's all kind of fractured. So the way you should be
01:09:46 ◼ ► able to do it is if I sign up for HBO Now through Apple, I should be able to also log into HBO Now
01:09:54 ◼ ► on an app, on a device, or on the web, right? Like, I should be able to do that. I think that
01:09:59 ◼ ► maybe requires a level of connection that doesn't exist yet. If it's a policy decision, it's a bad
01:10:04 ◼ ► policy decision, but I don't think that's what's going on here. I think it's a technical challenge,
01:10:09 ◼ ► and I hope it all gets resolved because ultimately if I buy HBO Now, I should get it wherever I want,
01:10:16 ◼ ► and if I buy it through Apple, I should not only be able to play it on limited Apple devices. That's
01:10:23 ◼ ► not a good experience for anybody, customers of HBO and customers of Apple. So basically, I think
01:10:30 ◼ ► probably the rule of thumb right now is the only thing that you can expect is that you'll be able
01:10:35 ◼ ► to watch any of this type of content wherever you can get to the service you originally purchased
01:10:41 ◼ ► it from. It is not clear to believe that just because you're a HBO Now customer somewhere,
01:10:47 ◼ ► that you can be a HBO Now customer everywhere, even though you should, but you shouldn't assume
01:11:02 ◼ ► because of portability?" That's just a thing for Robbie. "With a 1TB SSD so I can kind of
01:11:07 ◼ ► learn everything about the operating system, or shall I wait for the 2019 MacBook releases?"
01:11:14 ◼ ► So I think what Robbie is saying is like, "I need it for the fall. I want to get it now."
01:11:19 ◼ ► I get you, Robbie. I can tell Robbie wants to buy the first MacBook. Or should they wait to see
01:11:31 ◼ ► I think you got to wait. I mean, the rumor is that it's a larger laptop that we might see
01:11:35 ◼ ► sooner, not the smaller one. But I, given everything going on with the Apple laptop line
01:11:44 ◼ ► and the feeling that it may be about to turn over, I would wait if at all possible. I'm not sure
01:11:50 ◼ ► you're going to get what you want by the fall, though, but you might have a better idea of where
01:11:58 ◼ ► it's going if you wait. So, you know, I have bought two MacBook Airs in the last six months,
01:12:05 ◼ ► and so I'm not one of those people who feels like you just can't buy an Apple laptop. We have three
01:12:10 ◼ ► of those keyboards in this house, and we have not had any problems with them yet. Maybe we're just
01:12:15 ◼ ► lucky. I don't know. But I know that a lot of people have had problems with them, so it makes
01:12:20 ◼ ► me hesitate. But I think if you want a small laptop portability factor, right, by the fall,
01:12:30 ◼ ► when you start college, it may be a tough one. You may end up with this, you know, existing
01:12:39 ◼ ► generation if you do that. But I would wait for now. I would wait to see not only what is happening
01:12:44 ◼ ► at WWDC, but really what happens over the summer and what the rumors are. Put it off if you can.
01:12:50 ◼ ► completely. Phil asks, "We hear a lot about TV in the US and Upgrade and all the new streaming
01:12:55 ◼ ► platforms, but how does Myke feel about TV in the UK? We already have a bunch of apps like the BBC
01:13:00 ◼ ► iPlayer, ITV Hub, All 4, SkyGo, Now TV, and many more." I have a complicated set of feelings
01:13:19 ◼ ► iPlayer has been around forever. It feels so normal that it exists that I don't even really
01:13:24 ◼ ► think of it in the same way that I think about something like Netflix or Amazon Prime, because
01:13:30 ◼ ► it's like, well, of course iPlayer. Like, iPlayer has been around forever. My main thing is that I
01:13:35 ◼ ► rarely want to watch a lot on British television. I tend to watch the stuff that everybody's watching
01:13:41 ◼ ► on Netflix or whatever, right? Like, there will be a show every now and then that grabs my attention.
01:13:47 ◼ ► Like, we've been watching, actually funnily enough, in the new Apple TV app, it was recommending
01:14:02 ◼ ► I opened up the new TV app and I was complaining about the way that the layout is. I don't like the
01:14:08 ◼ ► tabbed layout where it has like three or four tabs in your libraries right at the very end,
01:14:13 ◼ ► which frustrates me because that's the content that I've already bought, but I have to go through
01:14:18 ◼ ► two stores to get to it now, right? And I was complaining about this while at the same time
01:14:24 ◼ ► they were showing me content from Channel 4 and I saw that there was a new season of Bake Off!
01:14:28 ◼ ► The Professionals, which is British Bake Off! but for like professional pastry chefs. It's amazing,
01:14:42 ◼ ► It is unbelievable. The first season was out last year, now onto the second season now,
01:14:47 ◼ ► and we just rewatched the first season and we're starting the second season. It's incredible. But
01:14:52 ◼ ► it was kind of funny that like I was complaining but then found a show, so like I'm like, "All
01:14:57 ◼ ► right, maybe it's not as bad as I thought." But the kind of overall these platforms in the UK,
01:15:03 ◼ ► they're all free. So BBC and ITV and Channel 4, they're free and they come with some drawbacks.
01:15:09 ◼ ► Like everything is on limited time, right? You only have a limited time to watch everything.
01:15:30 ◼ ► lots of ad breaks for the stuff. And I would like to be able to pay for some of that stuff,
01:15:34 ◼ ► but it's not as simple as that right now. But it feels like the older networks are now like
01:15:40 ◼ ► moving into that, right? Like they've seen now that when they started it, everything was free
01:15:44 ◼ ► and ad supported because there was no model. But now all of the American networks are like,
01:15:48 ◼ ► "We're going to create these platforms and you're going to pay for them." So now some of the UK
01:15:52 ◼ ► networks are moving into that, right? We spoke about BrickBox a while ago. We also do subscribe
01:15:57 ◼ ► to Now TV. This is basically Sky's over the top service. This is how we get HBO content.
01:16:04 ◼ ► Because we can't get HBO Now or HBO Go here, which is wild. And it's because of the deal that Sky has
01:16:12 ◼ ► with them. So like we just watched Veep. Adina has been watching Game of Thrones. And we do that
01:16:18 ◼ ► through Now TV. But Now TV's apps. Oh my God, they are the worst. I've never seen apps so bad.
01:16:24 ◼ ► Like when? This is an example of this, right? You're watching a TV show. You've searched for
01:16:32 ◼ ► Veep. You've selected Veep. You play the show. When the show ends, it just goes black, the screen.
01:16:39 ◼ ► Nothing happens. You press the menu button and it takes you back to the actual home screen of
01:16:44 ◼ ► the application. It doesn't take you back to the previous view. You then have to research for the
01:16:50 ◼ ► show you're watching again. And it will show you season one. You then have to scroll through
01:16:55 ◼ ► every season and then pick the next episode. I've never seen an app like on any like any TVOS app be
01:17:03 ◼ ► this bad for this long. It's like they just they made it once and never bothered with it. But
01:17:07 ◼ ► that is, I think, a general kind of rule of thumb for me with the way a lot of this stuff is in the
01:17:12 ◼ ► UK. A lot of it feels quite old now because it's been around for a while. But as I say,
01:17:18 ◼ ► I tend to watch not a lot of British television. So that's why I don't talk about it too much,
01:17:23 ◼ ► because I am typically more interested in the stuff that comes from the American companies.
01:17:27 ◼ ► USA, USA. Indeed. And Austin asks what I consider to be just a real tale of woe kind of
01:17:35 ◼ ► closing out a thread here. Austin wants to know, how do you get Bluetac out of your AirPods case
01:17:41 ◼ ► hinge? Oh, no. That was last week's advice was to use Bluetac on your AirPods. So if anybody knows
01:17:48 ◼ ► how to get Bluetac out, this feels like, are you familiar with the story of like the lady who
01:17:53 ◼ ► swallowed the fly? Swallowed a fly. Yeah. So how do you get dirt out? You use Bluetac. How do you
01:17:59 ◼ ► get Bluetac out? Maybe we'll find out next week. Maybe you just rub some dirt in there. Rub some
01:18:03 ◼ ► dirt in and then you get more Bluetac out. But good luck to you, Austin. Maybe like a... My answer
01:18:09 ◼ ► is don't put it in there. Yeah. I've never used, as we learned last week, I've never actually used
01:18:15 ◼ ► Bluetac on my AirPods. So I don't know. Neither have I. And that's probably because I figured I
01:18:20 ◼ ► would probably do something terrible with it. And I will just live with the dirty gross AirPods case
01:18:24 ◼ ► that I own. Perhaps she'll die. Next week is the draft. Get excited, everyone. I'm excited. WWDC
01:18:38 ◼ ► Thanks to Burrow, Luna Display and Squarespace for their support of this show. If you want to find
01:18:43 ◼ ► Jason on the line, he's at sixcolors.com and go to the incomparable.com as well. He's @jsnell on
01:18:50 ◼ ► Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L-L. I am i-Myke, I-M-Y-K-E. We'll be back next time. Thanks so much for