00:00:14 ◼ ► DoorDash, Squarespace, Booz Allen and KiwiCo. My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell.
00:00:21 ◼ ► Hello Myke Hurley, how are you? I'm very good. No mystery drama, no award ceremony. We're back to regular old upgrade today.
00:00:29 ◼ ► Yeah, a lot happened while we were doing off-format episodes, so we have a lot to talk about.
00:00:34 ◼ ► I have many, many, many things that I want to talk to you about today, but we start off,
00:00:38 ◼ ► upgrade as we start off every episode of Upgrade with a #SnellTalkQuestion, and Phil wants to know,
00:00:43 ◼ ► do either of you use an electric toothbrush? Yes. I feel like you've got to these, I mean, I, you know,
00:00:51 ◼ ► I use an electric toothbrush, I use like a Philips one, um, the Sonicare something, something, something.
00:00:56 ◼ ► They've changed it a bunch, but like, it's good. I have the Braun Oral-B, but yes, it is, and I have four ages,
00:01:02 ◼ ► and, uh, you, you should probably use an electric toothbrush. They're better, they're more, they're
00:01:07 ◼ ► better at their jobs. Yeah, I, I feel like, I'm like an animal, as John Sirkus would say, when I use a
00:01:12 ◼ ► non-electric toothbrush now. I, I travel without, you know, it's, it's, I don't have a travel electric
00:01:17 ◼ ► toothbrush or something like that, and, uh, and, uh, it does feel really weird and feels very nice to
00:01:22 ◼ ► return to the electric toothbrush. Oh, mine comes in like a little box, and like a little carrying
00:01:27 ◼ ► thing, which also has a charging port in it, which I like. Um, so you can plug in like a mini USB
00:01:33 ◼ ► cable or something into the toothbrush case, and it charges the toothbrush, which is nice. It's the
00:01:39 ◼ ► Philips one, they have a bunch of them, you can find it, like, it's great. Um, but I, one of the things that I
00:01:46 ◼ ► like about using an electric toothbrush is it will keep going until it should be time for me to stop,
00:01:53 ◼ ► you know? Right, like, I don't have to think, "How long have I been brushing my teeth for?"
00:01:57 ◼ ► It will do it for the amount of time that it's supposed to do it, so I like that. And if you would
00:02:02 ◼ ► like to send in a question to open an episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag
00:02:06 ◼ ► #snowtalk, and it may be included for a future episode. Because we have not done a regular show
00:02:11 ◼ ► for a couple of weeks, there is no follow-up today, but what I do have for you, Jason, is a lot, a lot of
00:02:17 ◼ ► upstream stuff that I want to talk to you about. So I wanted to just state for the record that I was very, very
00:02:23 ◼ ► happy with the way that both The Morning Show and For All Mankind ended. I was really pleased with
00:02:29 ◼ ► the ending of both of those shows from a, like, a show quality standpoint. I've heard mixed feelings
00:02:34 ◼ ► from people about the ending of The Morning Show, but I really liked it. Like, I think that the last,
00:02:40 ◼ ► like, 15 to 30 minutes of the final episode really gave, like, a satisfying ending that made me want
00:02:48 ◼ ► more of the show. So I am genuinely very much looking forward to both of those shows coming
00:02:55 ◼ ► back. Like, For All Mankind was the best Apple show that I've seen so far. It was kind of incredible,
00:03:04 ◼ ► quite dark at the end, but still very, very, very good. Yeah, I love the end of that show. That was
00:03:10 ◼ ► a great one. And I think it's interesting too. So Apple did this weekly release schedule, and we
00:03:17 ◼ ► spent a couple years questioning how they were going to do a release, and they are doing both.
00:03:22 ◼ ► They are doing some drop two or three episodes and then release weekly, and they're also dropping some
00:03:27 ◼ ► as complete seasons. And I've been thinking this fall as we've had a real, and now winter,
00:03:39 ◼ ► For All Mankind, Morning Show, these other Apple TV shows, that what I've noticed is that, first
00:03:48 ◼ ► off, a lot of shows are being discussed week to week, like in the old days, where you really can,
00:03:53 ◼ ► like, obsess about what happened in this episode and wonder what's going to happen next.
00:04:04 ◼ ► moment to illustrate this. I think binge dropping a show is a mistake for most kinds of shows,
00:04:11 ◼ ► if you're a streaming service. I think Netflix does it mostly because they have so much content
00:04:16 ◼ ► that they don't want to promote a show week to week. So they want to do a single launch,
00:04:20 ◼ ► like it's a movie, and then they want to walk away to the next thing. But I don't think it serves
00:04:25 ◼ ► the material for people to have their spoiler issues so that some people will spoil it for
00:04:30 ◼ ► everyone. Other people will not say anything for fear of spoiling it. It's very hard, if you are a
00:04:42 ◼ ► 10 episodes at once. And so maybe you don't at all, or maybe you do it week by week, but it's
00:04:47 ◼ ► kind of like your audience is all over the place because some of them have seen it to that point
00:04:52 ◼ ► and are going back, and some of them haven't seen it yet. It's one of those things where
00:04:57 ◼ ► I get why it's done. I also get why people like binging TV shows. But again, my argument here is,
00:05:10 ◼ ► versus letting it roll out over 10 weeks or eight weeks. The Apple TV stuff was mostly in eight
00:05:16 ◼ ► weeks because they dropped three in week one. I think that works really well, and then it's all
00:05:24 ◼ ► there for you if you want to watch it all at once. So yeah, I think binge mentality, though,
00:05:35 ◼ ► I guess what I'm saying is I think there's great power in making you wait. And that I think,
00:05:43 ◼ ► I just think it's a mistake. I think the conversation online about a show that's ongoing
00:05:53 ◼ ► is not only really fulfilling as a viewer, but I think is a way to build word of mouth about a show.
00:06:00 ◼ ► And I think like if Baby Yoda, would Baby Yoda have been a thing if they had just dropped every
00:06:07 ◼ ► episode of The Mandalorian? Maybe, but I think it would have been a thing that blew itself out
00:06:12 ◼ ► a lot faster because there wasn't this chance for the conversation to continue as there was more of
00:06:19 ◼ ► it every week. Everyone is at the same place. Everyone discovered Baby Yoda at the same time.
00:06:25 ◼ ► Of course, or the Netherlands or Canada, but not the UK. Anyway, so my point here is I like that
00:06:33 ◼ ► Apple is doing this hybrid model where they're giving you a big kickstart and then they're
00:06:41 ◼ ► rolling out more episodes later. I think that some of these, as much as I like getting to the
00:06:50 ◼ ► straight into the finale because of the narrative momentum, I do love that moment. I find that
00:06:54 ◼ ► that's when I watch two in a row is the last two episodes. Because I get to the next to last
00:06:59 ◼ ► episode and I'm like, "Oh, I don't want to wait. I'm going to keep going." But I just finished
00:07:02 ◼ ► watching The Expanse, which dropped in December. And the other point I'll make here is it felt
00:07:08 ◼ ► less necessary for me to watch it. And I still haven't finished all of Mrs. Maisel. It felt less
00:07:15 ◼ ► necessary to watch it because it was all there and I could get to it whenever. Whereas when
00:07:22 ◼ ► The Mandalorian dropped or when For All Mankind dropped and on Sunday nights when Watchmen dropped
00:07:28 ◼ ► on HBO, I was there because I wanted to see the next episode. And some of these binge shows,
00:07:34 ◼ ► it's like, they're not going anywhere. So they're not as much of a priority because I will get to
00:07:40 ◼ ► them eventually. So I think that works against them too. So if you like binging TV shows,
00:07:45 ◼ ► I don't have a problem with it. I get it. I just don't think that that's the rollout strategy that
00:07:49 ◼ ► is right for a lot of stuff, especially scripted, dramatic, you know, with cliffhangers and you want
00:07:56 ◼ ► to have conversation about what's going on. I think those work better with a little bit of
00:08:01 ◼ ► scarcity. That's all. So I will say like to build on your point, like for myself, I think that this
00:08:09 ◼ ► type of rollout, like the give us a couple of episodes, you can have a mini binge and then you
00:08:14 ◼ ► go week to week is really good for thoughtful drama shows because then you have the time
00:08:20 ◼ ► to kind of for it to sit with you and you think about it. But like lighthearted comedies,
00:08:26 ◼ ► just binge the whole thing. That's my feeling on it. There's also a TV critic thing where
00:08:39 ◼ ► episode. The first episode is often a set up episode to introduce you to characters. And,
00:08:45 ◼ ► you know, this is for logical reasons, but like the pilot episode is never representative of the
00:08:50 ◼ ► series as a whole because it's the introduction episode. And what you really want to see to judge
00:08:55 ◼ ► a show as a viewer or a critic is what does the show look like when it's up and running?
00:08:59 ◼ ► What is every episode of the show going to feel like? And episode one never does that. So I think
00:09:05 ◼ ► it's smart for Apple to say we're going to drop three because then, yes, if you want to really
00:09:10 ◼ ► dig down deep into it and episode one, what's your appetite? Well, try number two. And if episode one,
00:09:16 ◼ ► you're like, man, I don't know. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've recorded. I've set
00:09:19 ◼ ► up like a season pass for a TV show on traditional TV and watched episode one and like never gotten
00:09:28 ◼ ► to episode two because it's like not, it's fine. Maybe I'll get back to it. And then I never get
00:09:33 ◼ ► back to it. And I think there's something to be said for having episode two queued up. So if
00:09:37 ◼ ► you're unsure about episode one, you can just roll into episode two and see if it continues to work
00:09:43 ◼ ► for you. And I think that's a good like way to sell your series. - The pilot is three episodes,
00:09:46 ◼ ► not one episode. - Exactly. Which means you get a better sense of what the show actually will be
00:09:50 ◼ ► week to week. So, you know, I don't know. There's no right answer here, but I guess what I'm saying
00:09:55 ◼ ► is I think there's a right answer, which is what Apple is doing, which is, and what Disney is doing.
00:10:02 ◼ ► Roll some of your drama stuff out week to week. I think it's better. I know why Netflix doesn't
00:10:07 ◼ ► do it, but I don't think it's as good. - So there were no Golden Globe wins for Apple. - Nope. Tim
00:10:12 ◼ ► Cook was there though. Tim Cook got a nice plate of vegan entree and some wine to sit there next
00:10:23 ◼ ► roasted him, right? Like I have no time for Ricky Gervais anymore. Like I just can't, but whatever.
00:10:30 ◼ ► Like, you know, to each their own, it's just not my style. In my opinion, The Morning Show was the
00:10:35 ◼ ► wrong choice for the Golden Globes anyway. It should have been for all mankind. I don't know
00:10:40 ◼ ► what the process is to have a show nominated for a Golden Globe. Like if it's chosen by a committee
00:10:45 ◼ ► or if like the studio puts it up, right? I don't know the way it's done, but I feel like... - It's
00:10:51 ◼ ► all a sham. - This is what I'd assumed that like a company pays money. - It's not quite that, but
00:10:59 ◼ ► it's not a real thing. - Yeah, but my feeling is like that maybe Apple had some hand in like
00:11:05 ◼ ► what goes up or whatever, but like, you know, you put it up for contention. It's put up for
00:11:10 ◼ ► contention in some way and I could see why you would have put The Morning Show here because it
00:11:15 ◼ ► feels like it is playing to the people within the bubble, right? But I think that For All Mankind
00:11:22 ◼ ► had a better story, better payoff and better acting performances across the board than The
00:11:29 ◼ ► Morning Show did. Even though The Morning Show, I still thought was very good. I think the parts
00:11:35 ◼ ► that Apple actually had nominations for with The Morning Show, they have better options with For
00:11:41 ◼ ► All Mankind. Like you could have picked literally anyone to win the best supporting or best actor
00:11:49 ◼ ► role from For All Mankind, like in my opinion, because the performances of all of the cast,
00:11:55 ◼ ► nobody faulted. Every single one of them was fantastic. So yeah, that's my feeling on it. So
00:12:02 ◼ ► but anyway, they didn't win, which is a shame for them. It would have been really good if they could
00:12:06 ◼ ► have brought one home, but they didn't. - That's fine. They'll survive. They'll cry into their
00:12:10 ◼ ► money. - They'll survive, but it would have been, you know, I'm just saying that Apple would have
00:12:14 ◼ ► really loved it, right? Like it would have been very good for them to come away of a Golden Globe.
00:12:18 ◼ ► - We won an award, not very prestigious award. - Yeah, I guarantee though that they didn't win
00:12:24 ◼ ► because of who they are, right? Like it just wasn't gonna happen for them this time. Like
00:12:28 ◼ ► Hollywood's not behind them. All right, but we have some information about some new shows coming
00:12:33 ◼ ► because it's a bit of a quiet time for Apple TV+ right now, but it's about to kick off in February.
00:12:38 ◼ ► So Apple TV+ will be getting a five-part documentary series exploring the LGBTQ movement
00:12:50 ◼ ► and the show will investigate the importance of TV as an intimate medium that has shaped the American
00:12:56 ◼ ► conscience and how the LGBTQ movement has shaped television. Obviously that's a quote from press
00:13:01 ◼ ► releases. All five episodes will debut on Valentine's Day. They're gonna feature voiceovers
00:13:06 ◼ ► and interviews from people like Ellen DeGeneres, Anderson Cooper, Rachel Maddow, and more.
00:13:11 ◼ ► This show is one of the very few, I think is in a very rare club of shows that have been first
00:13:16 ◼ ► announced for an Apple press release. Most of the stuff was leaked out, right? Because they're
00:13:26 ◼ ► - Also, yeah, it's a doc, so there's no set and there's no big, it's a different kind of supply
00:13:33 ◼ ► chain. - Right, I expect overall, but it does come from the very fun URL, apple-tv-plus-press.apple.com,
00:13:42 ◼ ► which is just like a fun little website that Apple built, which is just like, it's a specific news
00:13:48 ◼ ► room just for press releases of Apple TV+. I think this is also where you can log in and get,
00:13:54 ◼ ► if you are a member of the media, I think, and get screeners and stuff. I think I've seen this.
00:14:00 ◼ ► - I don't know, maybe. - Rob McElhenney's comedy series is going to be debuting on February 7th.
00:14:06 ◼ ► This is the show that focuses on a video game studio, which I believe Activision is involved
00:14:17 ◼ ► - Yeah, it is. So it's Rob McElhenney and Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia,
00:14:39 ◼ ► here it is, it's a sitcom, it's a nine half-hour episode comedy, and they are dropping all nine
00:14:45 ◼ ► episodes. - So I also remember that Charlie Day was involved in this. He's not anymore.
00:14:52 ◼ ► It's not listed as, oh, yeah, it's actually from him, but he was originally going to be in it,
00:15:05 ◼ ► when it was announced, people assumed, right, 'cause it was just like, from McElhenney and
00:15:09 ◼ ► Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny, right, and you just assumed they would both be in the show,
00:15:14 ◼ ► but Charlie Day is not in the show, Rob McElhenney is in the show, I think he plays the lead
00:15:19 ◼ ► character in the show, he is the creative director of the fictional company. So I'm actually really
00:15:26 ◼ ► excited for this, 'cause I'm super keen to see what this show is gonna end up being from an
00:15:35 ◼ ► but also this one seems so weird with the Ubisoft involvement that I can't imagine them being,
00:15:48 ◼ ► like I can't even imagine them touching on it. - It does seem unlikely that this will become a
00:15:53 ◼ ► Silicon Valley-style brutal satire of the game industry if a game company is producing it.
00:16:12 ◼ ► - Yeah, what is the nature of that Ubisoft producer relationship, and is it that they're
00:16:28 ◼ ► Ravens Banquet, which I love that name because it sounds like a ridiculous video game, so the name
00:16:34 ◼ ► is very funny to me, and I'm wondering if there is gonna be some kind of fictional world within
00:16:41 ◼ ► this world, like, I'm keen to see this one, this is the next Apple TV show that I will be checking
00:16:48 ◼ ► out immediately, I think, that's kind of where I am with that one, I'm excited for this one,
00:16:52 ◼ ► because I like the people that are involved. The rumour became true, ex-HBO boss Richard
00:16:58 ◼ ► Pletpla will make content exclusively for Apple TV Plus in a five-year deal between Apple and
00:17:05 ◼ ► Pletpla's company, Eden Productions, it will encompass television series, documentaries,
00:17:10 ◼ ► and movies, I think this could end up being, I'm probably not alone in this, a very big deal for
00:17:15 ◼ ► Apple in becoming a key player in the streaming wars, it feels like, so far, their goal has been
00:17:26 ◼ ► he ran HBO for a long time, and is the guy from HBO who stood up on stage at an Apple event and
00:17:32 ◼ ► talked about how they were bringing HBO, now I wanna say, their over-the-top version, to Apple TV,
00:17:40 ◼ ► the Apple TV platform, so he has somebody who had a relationship with Apple, when AT&T took over
00:17:47 ◼ ► HBO and Warner Media, he left, and there's a big New York Times article about him, he talks about,
00:17:57 ◼ ► he clearly has signed a non-disparagement agreement with AT&T as part of his severance,
00:18:03 ◼ ► or departure, because they ask him about it a lot, and he basically declines to say anything other
00:18:08 ◼ ► than, you know, a new company, or a new, we had a new owner, and it felt like the right time to
00:18:14 ◼ ► leave, which is funny, I've kinda been there, so I get it, and what's interesting is that apparently
00:18:23 ◼ ► Eddie Q called him up after he left HBO and was like, "Can we get into business with you?"
00:18:31 ◼ ► - So this is one of those things, I've had this, we spoke about this on Connected a long time ago,
00:18:37 ◼ ► about the idea of people always think that Eddie Q's useless and should be fired and is pointless,
00:18:42 ◼ ► Eddie Q's not pointless, Eddie Q brings home deals, we have seen this time and time again,
00:18:49 ◼ ► that he is mentioned in this, and from reading the New York Times article, it genuinely feels like,
00:18:55 ◼ ► without Q, this would not have been done, this was the deal. - It's possible, but clearly that was
00:19:01 ◼ ► the personal connection, and I do think that that is the thing that Eddie Q has turned out to be
00:19:05 ◼ ► best at, is that he is a schmoozer and he has personal connections, and this, clearly he had
00:19:12 ◼ ► some sort of personal connection with Richard Plepler, then they get him in touch with, you know,
00:19:23 ◼ ► 'cause it seems to be that what Richard Plepler didn't wanna do is be inside a giant corporation
00:19:30 ◼ ► where he could get sold off or replaced or whatever, like what happened at HBO, that he
00:19:35 ◼ ► wanted to have a little more control over what he does, so he wanted to set up a production company
00:19:40 ◼ ► and use whatever, you know, talent that he put together and skill that he put together in building
00:19:46 ◼ ► modern HBO, but he didn't wanna do it where he was completely boxed in. What's interesting is,
00:19:52 ◼ ► it sounds like, you know, this is a five-year deal, so like, Apple, unclear how exclusive it
00:19:57 ◼ ► is or if it's first look or if there's a certain amount, there's lots of different ways this could
00:20:01 ◼ ► go, but instead of him being hired by Apple, his company has basically been hired by Apple
00:20:07 ◼ ► to produce premium HBO-style content, which is totally, I mean, this is Apple's game, right?
00:20:13 ◼ ► Apple is playing the HBO game, which is funny 'cause HBO is not playing it anymore. You know,
00:20:20 ◼ ► they're going more broad for HBO Max, but Apple TV is gonna have a smaller number of shows and
00:20:26 ◼ ► they want them to be perceived as high quality and prestige, and that is what "Pleplers" HBO did.
00:20:32 ◼ ► So, you know, they're gonna be a supplier and from Zach and Jamie's perspective, it's like,
00:20:38 ◼ ► you know, who knows what it's like behind the scenes or if they're like, "Is he kind of
00:20:42 ◼ ► verging in on our territory here or is it more like, great, you know, they're gonna provide more
00:20:47 ◼ ► content for us?" But I think overall for Apple, it's another stake in the ground about how they
00:20:54 ◼ ► wanna be HBO. And so Apple's adding stuff, other companies are losing stuff. We knew this was gonna
00:21:00 ◼ ► happen. It's now happened. Now the year's ticked over. "Friends" is currently unavailable to stream
00:21:05 ◼ ► anywhere in the US. It's left Netflix and will be coming to HBO Max sometime later on this year.
00:21:11 ◼ ► And there was a report from a few places, I have one site from Polygon, that there are some movies
00:21:16 ◼ ► that are disappearing from Disney+ already, including "Home Alone," one of the "Pirates
00:21:21 ◼ ► of the Caribbean" movies, and "Dr. Dolittle." This is because of some, like, crazy licensing
00:21:26 ◼ ► agreements is what people have worked it out and from what sources are saying, Disney are
00:21:30 ◼ ► not commenting on this yet. And it's also likely this could happen in the future. There are some
00:21:35 ◼ ► reports suggesting that movies like "Black Panther" could end up back at Netflix in 2026
00:21:40 ◼ ► because of some weird deal. Yeah, there's an additional window. There's an additional window
00:21:44 ◼ ► that they have later on. So we knew the streaming wars were gonna cause complexities and it's
00:21:50 ◼ ► already happening. But it's a surprising thing for Disney+. Like, it hasn't been around very long,
00:21:56 ◼ ► and some movies are disappearing. And "Home Alone" is particularly funny because they are developing
00:22:01 ◼ ► a new "Home Alone" for Disney+. So it would be weird if the movies aren't there, right? That,
00:22:06 ◼ ► like, they're creating a new "Home Alone," but the old "Home Alone," they're gone. And the funny
00:22:10 ◼ ► thing is, they're gone, but nowhere else. Like, they're not showing up. No one's found where
00:22:15 ◼ ► "Home Alone" lives right now, but it's not on Disney+. Yeah, it's gonna happen for a while,
00:22:22 ◼ ► too, right? Because these are contracts that were signed in the last decade that are still playing
00:22:28 ◼ ► out before--when the strategy changed, but these contracts are still there. So it's gonna be a
00:22:33 ◼ ► little weird for a little while. This is also why you create originals, right? This is ultimately,
00:22:37 ◼ ► this is why you have to create originals. It's why Netflix spends billions on creating originals
00:22:42 ◼ ► and has spent tens of billions in the last decade to create original material that they have
00:22:48 ◼ ► complete control over, because that stuff will never leave Netflix, right? That's why they do
00:22:52 ◼ ► that, and that's why everybody is doing that, because these other things, movies and catalog
00:22:57 ◼ ► shows and all of that, are all just kind of licenses, and they can come and go. And we're
00:23:02 ◼ ► in this really weird period now where they are, they're kind of coming and going. And, you know,
00:23:06 ◼ ► the office will be the same way, right? The office is gonna vanish and at some point and go to Peacock,
00:23:12 ◼ ► which they launched--NBC actually launched Peacock as a social media presence yesterday during--and
00:23:20 ◼ ► this is, I'm not making this up--during a football game between the Eagles and the Seahawks,
00:23:26 ◼ ► because they thought a bird-themed event would be hilarious for the launch of the Peacock social
00:23:33 ◼ ► media presence. I'm not gonna lie, Jason, if I was the head of marketing for Peacock, this is what I
00:23:38 ◼ ► would have done. Yeah. Maybe that tells you something, like if that's what my group has done.
00:23:42 ◼ ► Hey, it's birds! Let's do it. I don't know if it's the right move for you, but there you go.
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00:25:18 ◼ ► next move. Make your next website. So we heard about a while back the Bridge Pro, which is the
00:25:25 ◼ ► keyboard for iPad, which makes your iPad look like a MacBook Pro, like a laptop. It's like a
00:25:30 ◼ ► clamshell design kind of thing. But the Bridge Pro was coming. We heard about this first from like a
00:25:37 ◼ ► lawsuit that Bridge had with another company. Because about their hinge design. But there's
00:25:43 ◼ ► no point focusing on that for now. They have officially unveiled their iPad Pro keyboard,
00:25:48 ◼ ► including a trackpad. It is going to be taking advantage of the assistive touch accessibility
00:25:53 ◼ ► feature included in iOS 13. The product is called the Bridge Pro Plus. It's available to ship
00:26:00 ◼ ► starting February. The 11 inch model costs $200. The 12.9 inch model costs $230. Pre-orders begin
00:26:07 ◼ ► on Tuesday, January 7th at 11am Pacific. Jason, you've had one of these, right? You've got a
00:26:14 ◼ ► prototype unit? Yeah, I had one. It's actually before that other keyboard. People are like,
00:26:20 ◼ ► "Oh, they're angry because this other company got to the market of a keyboard and trackpad combo
00:26:25 ◼ ► unit first." It's like, well, first off, Bridge had a Surface keyboard and trackpad a long time
00:26:32 ◼ ► ago because Microsoft Surface is basically a PC. But I was testing a prototype of this before that
00:26:39 ◼ ► other company announced their product. So, Bridge has been working on this a long time.
00:26:45 ◼ ► And part of the challenge is, like we talked about with iOS 13, what exactly is supported in iOS?
00:26:52 ◼ ► Because this is an accessibility feature called Assistive Touch that will let you use an external
00:26:57 ◼ ► pointing device. And over the summer, we're like, "Is this going to get any better?" And it got a
00:27:04 ◼ ► little bit better, but not a lot better. And it's definitely a virtual finger that is there for
00:27:08 ◼ ► accessibility purposes. And you can use it, but it's definitely not what I'd hoped for. And for
00:27:15 ◼ ► me, the number one thing is that even though there is a text editing cursor in iOS that you can
00:27:20 ◼ ► control, you know, on the iPad, you put two fingers down on the keyboard and you can move around a
00:27:25 ◼ ► text editing cursor, that's not connected at all to Assistive Touch. And for me, that was going to
00:27:31 ◼ ► be the big benefit of adding an external pointing device was being able to edit text. And Apple just
00:27:36 ◼ ► didn't provide that. So it's been disappointing to me having this. It's great that that feature
00:27:42 ◼ ► exists, but it is not as functional as I had hoped. And we don't really know what Apple's
00:27:48 ◼ ► plans are. Apple could say, "Solved it. Right. Done. We're done. Good." Or they could say,
00:27:55 ◼ ► "Wow, this could be a lot better. There are a lot of people out there who want to use these pointing
00:27:58 ◼ ► devices and we need to do a better job and we'll wire in the text and the cursor and we'll change
00:28:02 ◼ ► how we're doing it. And if it's connected, we could wire it into Safari so we could support
00:28:07 ◼ ► mouseover events and things like that." And it's like, there's a lot of things they could do,
00:28:10 ◼ ► but are they going to do any of them at all? So I get this thing from Bridge while iOS is still,
00:28:16 ◼ ► I think, in beta even. And I had it for a week. And what I learned was I was very excited to get
00:28:23 ◼ ► it because it's like, yes, I wanted this keyboard with trackpad. So now my iPad can be a full-on
00:28:30 ◼ ► laptop mode device when I want it to be. And then I pull it out and then it's back to being a tablet.
00:28:34 ◼ ► And what I learned was in a context of a MacBook, you really do expect the trackpad to be of MacBook
00:28:44 ◼ ► trackpad quality. And Apple's trackpads are real good. Like, they're really good. And this isn't.
00:28:54 ◼ ► That's the bottom line. It's fine. But in that context where you expect it to suddenly,
00:29:00 ◼ ► you're like, "I'm using a laptop and now I'm going to reach down to the trackpad and I'm going to do
00:29:03 ◼ ► something." And it's like, no, the gestures aren't really there and the scrolling isn't very good.
00:29:08 ◼ ► And what you're capable of clicking on in iOS with this virtual finger is not as good as what
00:29:16 ◼ ► you really want. You end up kind of doing this click and push in order to try to scroll some
00:29:20 ◼ ► things. It's just not great. It's got its moments for sure. But the issue here is that it's not as
00:29:32 ◼ ► good as what it feels like it should be because it feels like you're using a MacBook and you're not.
00:29:37 ◼ ► And the OS is the reason. It's not the hardware. It's the OS. It's just not made to be used with
00:29:44 ◼ ► a trackpad like this. Plus, by the way, there's no trackpad support is my understanding in iOS.
00:29:49 ◼ ► It's a mouse that's supported, so trackpads have to emulate a mouse, which is, I think,
00:29:54 ◼ ► very common on the PC side too. But Apple's Magic Trackpad... This is why Apple's Magic Trackpad
00:29:59 ◼ ► basically doesn't work on iPads because it's a special pointing device. It's a trackpad. It's got
00:30:09 ◼ ► Brydge is doing their work to emulate a mouse on top of trackpad gestures, but it's not as good.
00:30:17 ◼ ► It's not as good. That's wild though, right? Like, I can't get my head around that properly yet.
00:30:25 ◼ ► That they built a trackpad that works like a mouse, not a trackpad. Like, do you know what that
00:30:30 ◼ ► actually means? My understanding is that this is not uncommon in terms of like trackpads that
00:30:38 ◼ ► aren't like the Magic Trackpad. They're like lower quality external PC trackpads. You move the finger
00:30:46 ◼ ► and it says, okay, that's the mouse moving up. Just like it translates that into a mouse movement
00:30:52 ◼ ► set of data and pushes that to the computer. And so the end result is you move your finger up,
00:30:58 ◼ ► the cursor moves up. You're like, all right, that's it. But what's really happening is that,
00:31:03 ◼ ► and not like I got a multi-touch trackpad and I'm going to do four finger gesture here, and I'm
00:31:08 ◼ ► going to do... Like, it's not that sophisticated. And my understanding in talking to people at
00:31:15 ◼ ► Bridge is that's the challenge here is that Apple didn't implement... You know, if iOS implemented
00:31:20 ◼ ► the trackpad whatever software that is on the Mac on iOS as part of AssistiveTouch, then presumably
00:31:30 ◼ ► you could pair a Magic Trackpad with it and it would work really well. And that Bridge could do
00:31:35 ◼ ► something like that too, but you can't. It's just Bluetooth mouse basically that you get. So it's
00:31:43 ◼ ► got some limitations there too. Bottom line is it's a really neat piece of hardware. And I think
00:31:47 ◼ ► maybe for some people it will be exactly what they want, but I think I want to just be in...
00:31:52 ◼ ► I want to strike a note of caution because I feel like this is a product that is not for most people,
00:31:57 ◼ ► that most people will probably be frustrated by it because iOS isn't there yet. And I am always
00:32:04 ◼ ► reluctant to tell anyone to buy a piece of hardware hoping that the software will improve later,
00:32:09 ◼ ► because guess what? Most of the time the software doesn't improve later in the way that you want it
00:32:12 ◼ ► to. So to buy this now and say, "But I'm sure for iOS 14 it'll get better." Like, "Are you sure?
00:32:20 ◼ ► Don't be so sure. Don't count on it." So I don't know. It's a really interesting product. And I
00:32:25 ◼ ► think the reason that Bridge has been so careful and they know that there's an audience for this
00:32:30 ◼ ► and they want to bring it out, but at the same time I do get the real sense that they're concerned
00:32:34 ◼ ► that this is the kind of product that could be oversold and that people will be disappointed
00:32:40 ◼ ► when they see how AssistiveTouch works. Because we know, we've been talking about it for the last few
00:32:45 ◼ ► months, but if you don't know and you're like, "Oh, now they've got an iPad with a trackpad,
00:32:50 ◼ ► that'll be great." And then you get it and you say, "Oh, it's not great. It's weird." And that's
00:32:57 ◼ ► not a great experience. - Yeah, I feel like you should only buy this if you've tried the
00:33:04 ◼ ► current AssistiveTouch feature and you're okay with it. - Yeah, get a Bluetooth mouse and try
00:33:10 ◼ ► it out and see what all the issues are. - A wired mouse, any mouse will work. Just try it out. I'm
00:33:15 ◼ ► very sure that many people have access to one of those, right? Like a mouse with some description
00:33:20 ◼ ► in their home. You might need a dongle if it's not USB-C. - I had to buy one, but yeah, sure.
00:33:25 ◼ ► - And give it a go. Bridge have actually also made a standalone trackpad for iPadOS now because they
00:33:31 ◼ ► did all the work. So they now sell just a trackpad if you want that. I wanted to talk about this a
00:33:38 ◼ ► little bit because I am personally very excited about this because I use pointer mode, the cursor
00:33:44 ◼ ► mode in iOS 13, basically every single day. So I am very excited for this product because
00:33:52 ◼ ► what I do now, if I'm sitting down to do any amount of work, I want to have an ergonomically
00:33:59 ◼ ► sound environment for me if I'm going to be using my iPad. So I use my ClearLook stand and I use
00:34:05 ◼ ► either my Bridge keyboard or another keyboard. I have a WASD mechanical keyboard that I like,
00:34:10 ◼ ► or also coupled with a Logitech MX Master mouse. This is what I'm using right now. Mouse is by
00:34:16 ◼ ► Bluetooth. Then I plug the keyboard in via USB-C. I'm ready to go. And then I get like a great setup.
00:34:23 ◼ ► The ClearLook stand has the iPad at eye height. I have a desk, which is all set up correctly. I
00:34:27 ◼ ► have my chair, which is set up correctly. So I'm able to work with the operating system that I want
00:34:32 ◼ ► to use that suits me better with ergonomics in mind. So now I also want a trackpad on my Bridge
00:34:41 ◼ ► keyboard for the times when I am in laptop mode rather than desktop mode because I'm getting very
00:34:45 ◼ ► used to using an iPad of a cursor. And I know, look, okay, if you are opening Twitter right now
00:34:52 ◼ ► to tell me to use a Mac, close it because I do not care about that response, right? Like, I'm not even
00:34:58 ◼ ► going to bother getting into it right now. Right? Yeah, I have a Mac. I'm talking into it right now.
00:35:02 ◼ ► Typically when I'm, do you know what, when I'm using my iPad in that mode, I'm on a second desk
00:35:07 ◼ ► I have in my office. My Mac is behind me, right? Like I could get to it if I want to. I don't want
00:35:13 ◼ ► to. I'm actually still planning on like working out a permanent station in my office. Like I want
00:35:19 ◼ ► to have a monitor, a keyboard, a mouse, and like in a hub that works all of it together. So I can
00:35:26 ◼ ► just like plug one cable into the iPad and it's always ready to go. Um, I am taking recommendations
00:35:33 ◼ ► from anybody if they can recommend good monitors for iPads and good hubs. Like I want to know if
00:35:38 ◼ ► anybody's using these. Um, I know that John Voorhees has done some stuff with this. Federico's
00:35:43 ◼ ► done some stuff with this on Mac stories, but I just want recommendations from people if they're
00:35:47 ◼ ► working in this way. Um, but I, I really like it. Like it lets me use the apps that I use in a way
00:35:54 ◼ ► that I'm familiar. I think that the, the cursor mode is way better implemented than I would have
00:35:59 ◼ ► expected it to be based on being somebody who's used Apple pencil for so long for interacting with
00:36:04 ◼ ► UI because Apple pencil could never, um, operate any of the kind of operating system layer stuff.
00:36:14 ◼ ► So you couldn't, you pull down notifications, you couldn't adjust anything in split view.
00:36:19 ◼ ► None of that can be done with the Apple pencil, but you can do it with the cursor. So you can like,
00:36:24 ◼ ► basically you are minute, you are like mimicking a finger, which I know can be frustrating in places,
00:36:30 ◼ ► but gives me way more, uh, functionality available than I can just using the Apple pencil to use the
00:36:39 ◼ ► UI. So then you also have, you know, the, the MX master has a couple of buttons on it and you
00:36:44 ◼ ► can program what those buttons do. Right. So like, yeah, I really like it. It's working great for me.
00:36:50 ◼ ► And it gives me more flexibility when it comes to using iOS, because then I can also just pop
00:36:56 ◼ ► that screen right out of that system and take it with me and I'm good to go. Right. Like, and then
00:37:01 ◼ ► it's my iPad again. But other than that, it is like a, uh, it is a focused work device, right.
00:37:07 ◼ ► Which is how I'm using it for the rest of the time. So I am very happy with the situation,
00:37:13 ◼ ► like just the whole like setup that I've got right now, but I want, uh, I'm keen to see what it would
00:37:20 ◼ ► be like to use, uh, this device, like a laptop, like an actual laptop with a track pad. I'm keen
00:37:26 ◼ ► to see what that ends up looking like. Yeah. I have to be honest. I might be more interested in
00:37:30 ◼ ► the standalone track pad just because I could position that next to my keyboard when I'm working
00:37:36 ◼ ► on the iPad in a stand and, um, and use that instead of the weird Bluetooth mouse. Cause
00:37:44 ◼ ► basically I don't like mice, so I'd rather not. And I might use that more. Um, I might not,
00:37:49 ◼ ► I don't know. We'll see. But, uh, but yeah, this has potential. And I think if you've used it in
00:37:54 ◼ ► that mode, like you have, you understand its strengths and weaknesses, but it's great. Uh,
00:38:00 ◼ ► there are a lot of speculation about this too. Uh, when this got announced, a lot of conversations
00:38:04 ◼ ► about it. The question is like, what will it take for Apple to make this mode on iOS more
00:38:10 ◼ ► and really on iPad OS better? And you know, one argument is they won't because just never bet
00:38:17 ◼ ► against Apple considering something that they just worked on done and leaving it on the side of the
00:38:22 ◼ ► road for a few years. That happens a lot. So I think that's actually the most likely scenario
00:38:26 ◼ ► is that nothing will happen. They could make it better as an accessibility feature. They could
00:38:31 ◼ ► decide to make it a more mainstream feature and wire it into more stuff. And that would be great.
00:38:38 ◼ ► I am deciding to hold out positive hope for this, that like the amount of people and the
00:38:44 ◼ ► amount of buzz that there has been about this feature could lead to it becoming a thing,
00:38:49 ◼ ► but that is my own hope. So here's, here's what I'm getting at is oftentimes what drives the
00:38:56 ◼ ► software side is the hardware side. So one, one, and we're going to get to this, uh, in our next
00:39:04 ◼ ► segment, when we talk about my predictions for 2020, cause I wrote a bunch of articles about what
00:39:08 ◼ ► I think is going to happen in 2020 or what I hope is going to happen, that delightful combination of
00:39:12 ◼ ► prognostication and wish casting that happens this time of year. Um, but one of the things that I
00:39:18 ◼ ► think is what are they going to do with the iPad pro? Like how do you, how do you do an update?
00:39:23 ◼ ► Is it just going to be, Oh, well, the processor's faster and there's this, you know, depth camera
00:39:28 ◼ ► housing thing on the back. That's like the one that's going to be in the iPhone this fall.
00:39:32 ◼ ► And that's the, that's the rumor. It's like, okay, like, all right. But the last time it was,
00:39:38 ◼ ► this is as powerful as a laptop and we've got USB-C and now we're serious. And I thought,
00:39:42 ◼ ► I'm not sure we're going to see a dramatically different iPad pro because it's the second
00:39:48 ◼ ► revision of this version of the iPad pro. But I did have this thought just in the back of my head,
00:39:53 ◼ ► which is what about accessories? What about more pro accessories? What if there's a new
00:39:58 ◼ ► smart keyboard and one thing that could drive, whether it's in addition to the existing one or
00:40:05 ◼ ► they just take the existing one away and replace it with a new one, but what if they could do a pro
00:40:12 ◼ ► smart keyboard that had the function row, maybe at some point, you know, it could actually have like
00:40:18 ◼ ► a magic keyboard set of keys on it. It would be heavier. I'll grant you, but it would be nicer
00:40:23 ◼ ► keys. And the big one is what if it also had a pointing device that would drive, they would have
00:40:29 ◼ ► to make the cursor support way better if they did that. I'm not saying they will, but I'm saying,
00:40:35 ◼ ► part of me feels like the only way we're going to get really good cursor support in iOS
00:40:41 ◼ ► is if Apple has a product that uses it. Otherwise it's going to kind of be off on the side. So I
00:40:46 ◼ ► think you got to pin your hopes on having some sort of an Apple pointing device accessory and
00:40:53 ◼ ► smart keyboard with either a trackpad or with that thing that they patented where you just move your
00:40:59 ◼ ► fingers over the keys and it's like a trackpad. Like I might take that if I can put two fingers
00:41:04 ◼ ► down like I do on my software keyboard and I could actually use it on the smart keyboard to move a
00:41:09 ◼ ► cursor around. That would be interesting. So I don't know. It is. I do think that though,
00:41:14 ◼ ► sometimes that for this quantum leap in terms of the quality of this feature, you almost need Apple
00:41:20 ◼ ► to say, uh, you have to make this feature internally because we're building hardware that uses it.
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00:43:57 ◼ ► of articles that you wrote, but you started out with grading your 2019 predictions. I just want
00:44:02 ◼ ► to give a run of some of these. So you were correct that the Mac Pro was expensive and modular,
00:44:08 ◼ ► but there was only one display option. You'd hoped like many that there would be more than one.
00:44:18 ◼ ► laptop satisfaction in 2019. You got some, but you were hoping for more. So the 16-inch Mac Pro
00:44:24 ◼ ► exists, but that was kind of it. That made people really happy anyway. The MacBook Air was a good
00:44:31 ◼ ► revision, but not perfect. There was an iMac update, but it wasn't as significant as you
00:44:37 ◼ ► hoped it would be. Catalyst was ultimately a bust and you thought it was going to be a big deal.
00:44:42 ◼ ► Jason, you were correct that the starting iPhone prices were brought lower. The iPhone 11 was not
00:44:48 ◼ ► only taking the role of the XR, it was also cheaper anyway. And there were improvements
00:45:04 ◼ ► as they call it, iPadOS. So that is that. We're pretty much going over just your predictions this
00:45:11 ◼ ► episode. If you're intrigued in my predictions, these are not my full predictions, but you can
00:45:21 ◼ ► pick-based episode. There's a lot to unpack there as to why it's called that. I recommend just going
00:45:28 ◼ ► to listen to that episode where me, Steven and Federico make some picks for the year. And there
00:45:32 ◼ ► are lots of ramifications around our picks for the year. So let's, Jason, let's look at these,
00:45:37 ◼ ► right? So we're going to start with just a few different categories. We'll start by looking at
00:45:41 ◼ ► iPhone, the iPad, and wearable devices. So we're talking iPhone size changes. This is like a big
00:45:48 ◼ ► thing that's been rumored. What's going on here? Yeah, the rumors, right? And we have to start with
00:45:55 ◼ ► the supply chain rumors because they tend to be accurate. And so I feel like that's the base of it.
00:46:01 ◼ ► And what it looks like to me is that we're going to get essentially five new iPhones in 2020 based
00:46:09 ◼ ► on these rumors, which I do believe are probably accurate, but they're, you know, "new" in quotation
00:46:14 ◼ ► marks because I think that there's only one that would really be considered new. And this seems to
00:46:19 ◼ ► be Apple's kind of relentless sort of year after year adding more variations to the iPhone so that
00:46:25 ◼ ► customers have...their customers have more options because more options are good. And I think Apple
00:46:30 ◼ ► has come to realize that. So, you know, based on the rumors, there's going to be a new iPhone SE
00:46:35 ◼ ► that'll be out this spring that's basically the iPhone 6 6s 7 8 size. And that will be the,
00:46:43 ◼ ► you know, so you want this cheaper, smaller phone. Here it is. And then the other rumors are that
00:46:49 ◼ ► there are going to be four iPhones in the fall, right? So there'll be a new 11 Pro and 11 Pro Max
00:46:59 ◼ ► that the 11 Pro or so the 12, let's say, Pro Max will be bigger, even bigger, that the 10R/11
00:47:09 ◼ ► that there will be a 12, let's say, of that just again. The rumor is that they're going to add this
00:47:15 ◼ ► big depth sensing thing on the back. But the one that I think is most intriguing is that there
00:47:19 ◼ ► would be like another 10R class phone that's small. That's the rumor. That's much smaller
00:47:27 ◼ ► than the iPhone X style that we've been using for people who never really got used to having
00:47:34 ◼ ► a phone that size. And potentially, you know, that's going to be the lowest priced of the main
00:47:42 ◼ ► line of iPhones. So you did something that all wild Apple people, Apple watches do. You tried
00:47:51 ◼ ► to give your guests on the names. I'll point out, by the way, making up names about Apple products
00:47:56 ◼ ► today is really easy because people will be like, "No, no, they'll never do that." And you say,
00:48:02 ◼ ► "Won't they?" Because like, I don't have, show me the evidence that they won't have totally
00:48:12 ◼ ► - So to name them all going from price is iPhone SE, iPhone 12, iPhone 12 Max, iPhone 12 Pro,
00:48:20 ◼ ► and iPhone 12 Pro Max. Now, that seems like a lot, right? It seems like a wild thing to do.
00:48:27 ◼ ► - Unless you think about the last couple of years, right? And look at their competition.
00:48:37 ◼ ► - So if we think about that, right, one, they want more iPhones at varying price points to
00:48:42 ◼ ► appeal to more buyers because they need to do that now, where they didn't before. The other thing is,
00:48:48 ◼ ► now there's been a lot of rumors around this and I think it could make sense, two release schedules.
00:48:54 ◼ ► Samsung do this. The S lines come out in the spring and the Note lines come out in the fall.
00:49:05 ◼ ► imagine if the iPhone 12 and the iPhone 12 Max came out in March and the iPhone 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max
00:49:12 ◼ ► came out in September. That would be, in theory, a smarter way to run their business because they
00:49:18 ◼ ► don't have to pack everything into one time. It makes a lot of things very different about like,
00:49:25 ◼ ► what is iOS anymore? Like, when does it come out? What does it focus on, right? Like, there's like
00:49:30 ◼ ► weird things to do with that. Unless there are also, you know, many people have been saying,
00:49:37 ◼ ► - I actually think that the case for this, and I'm not, I didn't predict this, but I think it's
00:49:43 ◼ ► possible, is the case for this is you put out your high margin, expensive cutting edge product in the
00:49:49 ◼ ► fall. And that's the Pro model. You could leave the iPhone 11 kicking around, right? And update it
00:49:58 ◼ ► the next spring. You'd still release iOS in the fall. iOS first version would be again, for the
00:50:04 ◼ ► cutting edge phone, it would be focused on the cutting edge features of the cutting edge phone.
00:50:07 ◼ ► And by the time the next iteration of the phone came out in the spring, you would have,
00:50:13 ◼ ► it would be settled a little bit more. So that's the argument. The counter argument is,
00:50:18 ◼ ► are people gonna be as enthusiastic about buying an iPhone 12, three, six months after the 12 Pro
00:50:26 ◼ ► has appeared or not? And I guess you could look at, you could ask that question about Samsung,
00:50:32 ◼ ► right? Are they, the Note and the regular Galaxy at different times, does that make a difference?
00:50:41 ◼ ► - It depends what way you do it, right? Because Samsung introduced all the new stuff first,
00:50:46 ◼ ► and then the expensive line gets all of that and a few more things. So like, Apple could start,
00:50:52 ◼ ► they could have an event like in April or March and we get the iPhone 12. And then they do the
00:50:59 ◼ ► 12 Pro later in the year. Like that could, I mean, that's the way that competitors do it.
00:51:10 ◼ ► would come out alongside the Pro in the fall anyway. - And then iOS 14 could be like, all
00:51:15 ◼ ► right, and now we're gonna release these features in September and these features in March, right?
00:51:20 ◼ ► Like, and they just lay that out and that's how they go for the future. - I don't feel like that's
00:51:28 ◼ ► annual cycle regardless. - They don't have to do it, but they've been doing it by accident
00:51:31 ◼ ► over the last few years. So they may as well just like do it, right? - Yeah, I wouldn't want to put
00:51:37 ◼ ► those two things together 'cause I think that's a separate argument and it's not necessary. And
00:51:41 ◼ ► I also don't think they're gonna do it. - Yeah, they don't have to, they could, they don't have
00:51:45 ◼ ► to, doesn't mean they will. But I am on board with the idea of splitting the iPhone line. It would
00:51:53 ◼ ► add maybe a little bit more steadiness to the earnings as well, potentially, right? Like,
00:52:02 ◼ ► rather than one big spike quarter, the spike may be smaller and that the other quarters might level
00:52:08 ◼ ► out a little bit more because of this. It also could add just a little bit more breathing room
00:52:14 ◼ ► for Apple and their industrial design and manufacturing teams that they don't have to do
00:52:18 ◼ ► everything at one time, right? That they can let things spread out and breathe a little bit more.
00:52:24 ◼ ► - For sure. - There are a lot of merits to this. We'll see. We'll see what they're gonna do.
00:52:28 ◼ ► - 'Cause five iPhone models is a lot, right? It's a lot. - If they're gonna do five, they shouldn't
00:52:33 ◼ ► bring them all out at the same time. If they're gonna do four, they shouldn't bring them all out
00:52:36 ◼ ► at the same time, right? - So here's the other thing I wanna mention too, which is, for those who
00:52:43 ◼ ► watch the Apple financials, you can tell the longer an iPhone design has been out, the less
00:52:49 ◼ ► exciting it is to a portion of the market 'cause it's the same old phone. And I'll just point out
00:52:54 ◼ ► that with the Pro iPhone and Pro Max, the Max getting bigger at least gives it a little bit
00:53:02 ◼ ► of a differentiator, but that iPhone Pro model was the iPhone X, it was the XS, and then it was
00:53:09 ◼ ► the 11 Pro. So if there's a 12 Pro this fall with a different camera on the back, that's the fourth
00:53:16 ◼ ► iPhone X. And with the XR and the 11, an iPhone 12 would be the third iPhone 12. And I'm just saying
00:53:25 ◼ ► that's a lot of iterations on a single design, and that's not great for sales. It's just not.
00:53:33 ◼ ► No matter what they put on the back, if the rumors are true, that product is a lot less... It's not
00:53:40 ◼ ► gonna be a lot less interesting, but it's just fundamentally less interesting because it's the
00:53:44 ◼ ► fourth iteration of the same product. It doesn't mean that it isn't better on the inside, it means
00:53:48 ◼ ► it looks more or less the same, and that's not great for sales. - Do you think the 12 line will
00:53:53 ◼ ► look different? - I don't see. I mean, there are no rumors to that degree. That would be great,
00:53:59 ◼ ► right? It would be very dramatic and interesting if they picked up the design language of the
00:54:05 ◼ ► iPad Pro, let's say. But I'm not sure I believe that. - There are rumors, but they're not necessarily
00:54:10 ◼ ► coming from the places you would expect them to come from. They're not coming from the really
00:54:15 ◼ ► reputable sources right now. It seems too old for that. - It would certainly help if they had a
00:54:20 ◼ ► look refresh. It would certainly help because when you're going into year four of the iPhone X,
00:54:30 ◼ ► it looks totally different. It's a totally different looking kind of thing," that people
00:54:40 ◼ ► They may not feel they need it if they've got a Pro Max that's bigger and then they've got this
00:54:45 ◼ ► smaller mainstream phone. Those are the two new models and then the other ones just kind of motor
00:54:50 ◼ ► along. And then the following year, there's a bigger change. That may be what they're thinking.
00:55:01 ◼ ► but the phones will look the same still. That would be a surprise to me because I can't think
00:55:05 ◼ ► of another time that Apple have done that, like changed the physical dimensions and kept the look
00:55:10 ◼ ► the same. - And kept the look. Yeah, I mean, adding the bigger phone is a, you know, this is a 10,
00:55:23 ◼ ► - But still, I would expect to see some change, but it doesn't have to be. I'm very intrigued
00:55:28 ◼ ► about this lineup. - No, you're right. You look at five phones in 2020 and you're like, "Really?
00:55:33 ◼ ► Really, are they going to do that?" But the last couple of years have told us that every time we
00:55:38 ◼ ► get an iPhone rumor that we've said, "Really, too?" Yeah, the answer has been, "Yeah, really, yeah."
00:55:43 ◼ ► - You predicted some other features. I reckon these will probably just be on the Pro models,
00:55:47 ◼ ► but 5G and a faster refresh rate on the screen. For the overall smartphone market in 2020,
00:55:56 ◼ ► these feel like table stakes, like if you pay attention to everything. - You got a phone called
00:56:02 ◼ ► a Pro, right? You got to have features on it that are Pro. You've got to. And if the rumors are true
00:56:06 ◼ ► about OLED coming down into the lower end models, you really have to find something, right? Something,
00:56:12 ◼ ► so if it's the 3D camera stuff on the back and it's 5G and it's ProMotion and the other one I
00:56:22 ◼ ► threw out there, which again is more wish casting, but it's like every time Apple comes out with a
00:56:28 ◼ ► larger phone, I have to say, "Apple Pencil support?" - Apple Pencil support. - Because there's an
00:56:33 ◼ ► argument to be made that the iPhone Pro is the Galaxy Note, right? That's what it is. And Samsung
00:56:41 ◼ ► has, and if you're thinking of a Galaxy Note as like one giant phone, it's like Galaxy Notes
00:56:45 ◼ ► align now. I get very confused. There are Galaxy Notes that are not that much different in size than
00:56:52 ◼ ► the Galaxy? What's the difference? - The S you're thinking of. They're all galaxies. - They're all
00:57:00 ◼ ► galaxies, right? But they aren't as clearly differentiated as you might think. They overlap
00:57:12 ◼ ► really between the Note and the S11+, the only difference is one has a stylus. That's kind of
00:57:22 ◼ ► where they are with that now. - Right, and so this is my point, is differentiation can be good,
00:57:26 ◼ ► and you can see what Samsung does. And I look at this, well, we're gonna have this iPhone 12 Pro
00:57:31 ◼ ► Max that's got an even bigger screen than what's in the 11 Pro Max. Apple Pencil, it's right there.
00:57:38 ◼ ► You did all the software work. Some people would love it, and it's not a mandatory feature, and
00:57:44 ◼ ► why not? You got a giant screen on this thing, why not do it? So I'll throw that in there too.
00:57:48 ◼ ► But I do think that that is an ongoing challenge, is you want to roll these really great features
00:57:54 ◼ ► down into your mainstream models, but how do you keep the Pro model actually a Pro model? How do
00:57:59 ◼ ► you do that? You've got to have new stuff pouring in that people are gonna want, and the Think is
00:58:04 ◼ ► cool and cutting edge. - I would really want to see them make a pencil that is scaled to the
00:58:10 ◼ ► phone size, though. I wouldn't want the current Apple Pencil. I mean, it wouldn't work anyway,
00:58:15 ◼ ► because it couldn't charge, right? Like, that's the difference between Pencil 1 and Pencil 2.
00:58:20 ◼ ► Like, Pencil 1, you could still charge it the same way. Pencil 2 won't work in that regard. - Yeah,
00:58:25 ◼ ► unless they had a new design with the sides and the magnets. - Wouldn't it be weird, though,
00:58:31 ◼ ► to have a pencil that's significantly larger than the phone attached to it? It would be very strange.
00:58:39 ◼ ► and I think that'd be sweet. It'd be like a cute little thing. And let's talk about the iPad Pro.
00:58:43 ◼ ► What do you think's going to happen to the iPad line in general this year? - Well, they turned
00:58:49 ◼ ► over so much of it in 2019, but not the Pro. So I think the Pro is where the interesting thing will
00:58:56 ◼ ► happen. And I mentioned it earlier, which is having just put out a new iPad Pro in the fall of 2018,
00:59:05 ◼ ► it's version 2. You're generally not going to do anything dramatic with that. There is that rumor
00:59:11 ◼ ► about the cameras on the back, the new camera stack that they want to do that's better for AR
00:59:16 ◼ ► and depth perception and things like that. On the front, you know, what do you do to change it? I
00:59:22 ◼ ► don't know, which is why I kept coming back to accessories, that if the knock on this was like,
00:59:28 ◼ ► the software was holding it back, well, the software's better. It's not perfect, but iOS 13
00:59:34 ◼ ► did enable more Pro kind of functionality on iPadOS. So how do you take it one better? And
00:59:40 ◼ ► I keep thinking about like accessory related stuff. Like you're not going to completely
00:59:46 ◼ ► redesign the iPad Pro, but you could design a new accessory that uses the smart connector on the
00:59:52 ◼ ► back to create a, you know, maybe a more laptop-like keyboard as an option in addition to the existing
00:59:58 ◼ ► smart keyboard. That would be one way to go. I mentioned it earlier. You could have it have
01:00:04 ◼ ► a trackpad if you added that as an iOS feature. If you did that, you probably wouldn't ship it until
01:00:10 ◼ ► the fall when iOS is out, but you could do that. Or it could just be a beefed up smart keyboard,
01:00:15 ◼ ► give people two options. They can get this thicker, heavier keyboard that feels more like
01:00:19 ◼ ► a laptop. That would be pretty sweet. And then I threw in the SD card slot. I know it seems silly,
01:00:24 ◼ ► but like it's a Pro iPad. Photographers love it. It's great for photography. You can have a huge
01:00:30 ◼ ► storage in it. It's got that beautiful screen. Maybe in addition to the USB port, which people
01:00:36 ◼ ► said, "Oh, well, I never put USB on an iOS device." And they did. Maybe you do put like an SD card slot
01:00:42 ◼ ► on it and say, "This is great for photography because it tells a Pro story." And they've got
01:00:47 ◼ ► three, four other iPads that don't tell the Pro story. Can you imagine the outrage if Apple put
01:00:57 ◼ ► a SD card on the iPad and not on the MacBook Pro? I can. So that's what gives me pause on that one.
01:01:08 ◼ ► Like I agree with your thinking, but like you could make the same argument for the MacBook Pro
01:01:14 ◼ ► as it being a great photographer device. And they haven't got one on there. That's true.
01:01:20 ◼ ► And yet, I don't know. I think that you and I are in the... Essentially, we're in the meeting
01:01:26 ◼ ► for this product when we're talking, which is, "What do we do to make this more Pro?" We're not
01:01:31 ◼ ► going to do a complete industrial design refresh on it, but what can we do to push this forward?
01:01:36 ◼ ► And I'm going to be in the corner going, "Well, I got some accessory ideas." We could do a second
01:01:42 ◼ ► smart keyboard that was smarter and more Pro since every... Again, talk about differentiation. Like,
01:01:48 ◼ ► every iPad basically, except the mini, can do keyboard stuff now and has a smart keyboard
01:02:00 ◼ ► it's getting kind of weak. So we need some new things. So a really Pro keyboard attachment thing
01:02:06 ◼ ► for the people... You've seen all... I would say to these imaginary people around this table at
01:02:12 ◼ ► Apple, there is the bridge keyboard. People talk about it. It's not for everybody, but it's out
01:02:16 ◼ ► there. We could do a way better job if it was a first-party keyboard. And we could still sell the
01:02:21 ◼ ► smart keyboard to most people, but this would give us a Pro message. It would help us differentiate.
01:02:25 ◼ ► And then I would bring up the SD card and probably be laughed out of the room, but I would say,
01:02:30 ◼ ► "You know what? Let's forget about the Mac. Let's focus on this product. Do we know that a lot of
01:02:34 ◼ ► photographers use this? Do we sell this as a great ultra-mobile photography studio? Could we put an
01:02:39 ◼ ► SD card slot next to the USB-C?" It would be very tiny, and it would be another way to differentiate
01:02:45 ◼ ► it and say, "This is the one that Pros need to get." And then they would say, "Please leave your
01:02:54 ◼ ► You won't listen. - Insert your badge in the SD slot at the exit and then leave. - Get out.
01:03:00 ◼ ► What about, so you also referenced the Apple Watch 6 and the AirPods 2 as products that will exist
01:03:06 ◼ ► in your expectation. That seems pretty set. Do you have any real thoughts on what these could
01:03:11 ◼ ► feature? - No, I mean, so this is the thing. AirPods, new AirPods, we have them, so they're
01:03:17 ◼ ► probably not going anywhere. I think the only thing that we might get is the rumored AirPods
01:03:24 ◼ ► over-ear stuff. - Oh, okay. HeadPods. - Because, yeah, HeadPods, because that would allow them to apply
01:03:33 ◼ ► that to something that isn't a Beats-branded thing but uses noise canceling. And I think we've seen
01:03:39 ◼ ► now Apple's interest in expanding AirPods beyond the original. They did the second generation,
01:03:45 ◼ ► they did the AirPods Pro. I feel like you have such success in that area. Why would you not carry
01:03:52 ◼ ► it through? And I know that they have Beats as well, but still. Apple-branded over-ear headphones.
01:04:00 ◼ ► I think Apple, if I was in charge of AirPods at Apple, again, I'm sitting at a table, they've
01:04:05 ◼ ► given me my badge back. - SD console. - Yeah, I would say everything we do here is successful.
01:04:11 ◼ ► Let's do more. There are other areas in this market that we can attack with an Apple, with
01:04:17 ◼ ► white Apple-branded things. Let's keep rolling, right? There's no reason for us to stop.
01:04:25 ◼ ► Let's do headphones. I know we'll also still sell Beats headphones. I want Apple headphones
01:04:30 ◼ ► that are Apple-branded that people can wear around, and then they'll have their white headphones with
01:04:34 ◼ ► them. - I also think, you mentioned white headphones a few times. I think if you want to do something
01:04:39 ◼ ► with the AirPods, you could do some new finishes, different colors, you could do that. And that would
01:04:44 ◼ ► be a... - Guys, Johnny's gone! We don't just need to do them in white anymore. - But I just feel like,
01:04:49 ◼ ► you know, it's like you say, we're back in that room again, and we're the AirPods team.
01:04:53 ◼ ► We have nothing to give to the AirPods from a technology line, because we also don't want to
01:04:58 ◼ ► encroach on AirPods Pro. What can we do to refresh them to get them back in stockings again next year?
01:05:05 ◼ ► We'll put them in some colors. - We talked to our plastic guys, and the plastic guys say,
01:05:09 ◼ ► "We can get you colored plastic for next fall." - And they're like, "Whoa." And then they do it.
01:05:14 ◼ ► - Yeah, then they're like the iPod Nano, right? We've got our serious white, awesome Pro headphones
01:05:20 ◼ ► here, and then we've got our fun colors for the lower-end model. - Nano-chromatic, Jason.
01:05:24 ◼ ► - I like what you're saying. You're hired, early. You're hired. For Apple Watch, I have one thing,
01:05:30 ◼ ► which is, I'm gonna just say sleep tracking again, because I feel like they'll do some more battery
01:05:35 ◼ ► things. It's a logical place for them to do a health update, and I think wear your watch
01:05:42 ◼ ► overnight, and it tracks your sleep, and it's like, you can already do this and then charge it
01:05:48 ◼ ► like when you have breakfast or are in the shower in the morning, and I feel like it's just, it's
01:05:54 ◼ ► right there. So if I had to guess, and that's a combination of the hardware improving and also the
01:05:58 ◼ ► software supporting sleep tracking stuff, but I feel like that has to be where they go next.
01:06:05 ◼ ► - Didn't they give an award of some description recently to a sleep tracking app? - Yeah,
01:06:12 ◼ ► it's funny, right? Because it's there, but it's not blessed by Apple as something to do with your
01:06:19 ◼ ► Apple Watch, and Apple owns Bedit, which makes a sleep sensor you put on the bed, but I feel like
01:06:26 ◼ ► having a scenario where it's tracking your sleep, and then it's also able to give you wake-up alarms
01:06:34 ◼ ► on your wrist, and they could potentially even do that thing where it's like, we're monitoring
01:06:38 ◼ ► whether you're sleeping deeply or lightly, and we can have that adjustable alarm that wakes you up
01:06:43 ◼ ► when you're surfacing instead of as you dive back down for more deep sleep, because we know when you
01:06:47 ◼ ► need to wake up. I think I can see a sales pitch around that. - They didn't give an award. It was
01:06:54 ◼ ► in their press release when they were talking about their awards. They also spoke about the best,
01:06:58 ◼ ► the highest selling apps and games of the year. - Oh, that's it. It's from that episode of
01:07:04 ◼ ► Connected where you guys were talking about what exactly is Apple doing with its marketing, and
01:07:08 ◼ ► one of the highest selling, the biggest selling Apple or Apple Watch apps is a sleep tracker.
01:07:13 ◼ ► - It was in the Apple Watch, but it was in the kind of apps of the year was an app that was just
01:07:23 ◼ ► an Apple Watch sleep tracking app, which is a wild thing to consider. I cannot find that app
01:07:31 ◼ ► right now, but I know it exists somewhere. I think it was like Autosleep. I think it was Autosleep.
01:07:39 ◼ ► But yeah, I just think that that was like a wild thing that it was for the Apple Watch,
01:07:45 ◼ ► but it was in the top paid apps of the year. So like you look at that data, Apple must surely be
01:07:56 ◼ ► working on it. You'd be wild not to, right? Like if people are buying these applications,
01:08:02 ◼ ► wouldn't you do it? - Nothing sends a better signal than seeing incredible success in the app store.
01:08:07 ◼ ► I mean, this is the thing that Apple gets accused of all the time is, "Oh, they took my idea and
01:08:11 ◼ ► they integrated it," which has happened forever. And that's just, if you're a platform owner,
01:08:16 ◼ ► you find out it's one of those, I see those stories and I really roll my eyes. It's not
01:08:21 ◼ ► that I don't feel bad for the developer who comes up with a great idea and then it's in the software
01:08:26 ◼ ► but at the same time, can you imagine a world where the platform owner is unable to develop
01:08:31 ◼ ► any new features if they exist in a third-party app? It's like you can't live like that as a
01:08:36 ◼ ► platform owner. So you have to look at the signal from the app store and say, "Oh my God,
01:08:41 ◼ ► our customers want sleep tracking. It is so clear. Plus it's health, which is perfectly aligned with
01:08:47 ◼ ► what we're doing. Let's make it happen." And I can only assume that the reason that it hasn't
01:08:52 ◼ ► happened yet is that they're worried about the kind of battery issues with that, especially
01:08:55 ◼ ► since they added the always-on display and that hits their battery, but it's got to happen.
01:09:00 ◼ ► It's got to happen. I remember there was a story recently that detailed that Apple had a team that
01:09:07 ◼ ► looks for trends in the app store and then they talk about them as if these are things that we
01:09:12 ◼ ► want to do. And it's like, of course, they would have that. You'd be wild not to. I can't find
01:09:20 ◼ ► for sure the name of that app. I'm looking. I think they may have changed the press release
01:09:24 ◼ ► to remove that information. I don't know. There was a previously an Apple press release and it
01:09:29 ◼ ► also said these were the most downloaded apps of the year. But I know it was in there. I believe
01:09:36 ◼ ► Yeah, let's do it. Another MacBook Pro update for the current 13-inch. Lots of people are hoping
01:09:44 ◼ ► that they will make a MacBook Pro, which is like the 16-inch MacBook Pro. Do you think that will
01:09:48 ◼ ► happen in 2020? Yeah, I feel like the easiest prediction to make at all is that they will do
01:09:53 ◼ ► a revision of the smaller MacBook Pro and that it will include the new keyboard. I think that's a
01:10:01 ◼ ► gimme. That's a layup. That is the easiest one. I think the hard one is the MacBook Air because,
01:10:14 ◼ ► you could make an argument is differentiation. This is not an argument I want to make. I'm just
01:10:28 ◼ ► bad PR aside, that their new materials version of the butterfly keyboard actually solved the problem.
01:10:33 ◼ ► And given that you and I have a friend, Mr. Steven Hackett, who has a 2019 MacBook Pro 15,
01:10:48 ◼ ► Yeah. So that kind of data point, that kind of anecdote makes me think, oh, no, they've got to
01:10:58 ◼ ► get rid of it on the MacBook Air too. But I feel like if I'm Apple and I've gotten beaten up,
01:11:02 ◼ ► especially by the Pro users about this, but I feel like, again, PR aside, I feel like I actually did
01:11:09 ◼ ► solve the problem with the butterfly keyboard and it's not a problem anymore. I can make the
01:11:13 ◼ ► argument to keep it on the MacBook Air. If it's still a problem, you just got to get rid of it.
01:11:18 ◼ ► So I don't know how they feel about it internally because it would be a differentiator,
01:11:24 ◼ ► but my hope is that the next MacBook Air will also just have the magic keyboard. And that, in fact,
01:11:29 ◼ ► that the MacBook Air was built during a time when they built this new MacBook Air, the retina MacBook
01:11:35 ◼ ► Air, during a time when they knew they would be doing a keyboard transition. And so it's engineered
01:11:45 ◼ ► if you update the MacBook Air to include the magic keyboard, the holy household will buy two of them.
01:11:51 ◼ ► Maybe that will help tip it over the edge for you. But like sold off me and Idina are looking
01:11:57 ◼ ► for updates. Like she has like a MacBook Pro, the last MacBook Pro 13 inch before the keyboard
01:12:05 ◼ ► change. Right. So it's, you know, it's one of the thicker ones with the, with the scissor switch
01:12:10 ◼ ► keyboard, right. The ones that were like considered to be gold dust for a while because people hated
01:12:15 ◼ ► the new ones. And her battery is just like, it just doesn't run very well. It's just not running
01:12:20 ◼ ► very well anymore. And I have the first MacBook Pro escape key version with no touch bar. Um,
01:12:29 ◼ ► and we want to replace both of those with MacBook Airs. Um, but I'm not doing that until,
01:12:36 ◼ ► I'm not doing it until Apple change it. When, if they revise it this year and it doesn't include
01:12:43 ◼ ► the magic keyboard, I may still get at least one of them. I'm just waiting to see what they move,
01:12:53 ◼ ► And then, you know, then we'll all, we'll work at that point. We may go with 13 inch MacBook
01:12:59 ◼ ► Pros again. Right. But I want to see what they do because I would prefer MacBook Air to a MacBook
01:13:05 ◼ ► Pro because I just don't need a MacBook Pro. Um, but, but we'll see. What about the iMac? Do you
01:13:09 ◼ ► think you're going to get the revision to the iMac that you want? So I think that the iMac
01:13:30 ◼ ► so my prediction is this, which is, are you going to join the club of the iMac Pro is dead?
01:13:35 ◼ ► Cause I'm in that club. I think Marco's now in that club. I think that the iMac Pro is gone.
01:13:40 ◼ ► I was already in the room and you guys walked in. Um, all right. The iMac Pro was conceived as a
01:13:48 ◼ ► replacement for the Mac Pro and then they decided they needed to make a Mac Pro. So here's what I
01:13:53 ◼ ► think. I think they're going to use the iMac Pro design, which is an internal redesign where it
01:13:59 ◼ ► gets rid of spinning hard drives and it puts in a much better cooling system. I think they're going
01:14:05 ◼ ► to use that as the basis for a new, and there's no rumors here. I'm just making this up, but this is
01:14:09 ◼ ► what I think I want to predict something. Here's my prediction. Um, they're going to use that as
01:14:14 ◼ ► a base basis for the new version of the 5k 27 inch iMac. So the big iMac will get the new cooling
01:14:22 ◼ ► system, will no longer offer any spinning hard drives and will have the fastest available core
01:14:29 ◼ ► processors, but not Xeons, which already, if you look, those core processors are very fast. Like
01:14:36 ◼ ► the modern, I believe the modern iMac for, uh, at the high end is faster than my base model iMac Pro
01:14:44 ◼ ► now, not at the high end of the iMac Pro, but if you're at the high end of the iMac Pro,
01:14:47 ◼ ► there's a really strong argument that you should just get a Mac Pro now that the Mac Pro exists.
01:14:52 ◼ ► So I think it would be logical to say, look, we're going to take our high end iMac, our,
01:14:56 ◼ ► our 5k iMac, and we're going to basically, it's going to be the iMac Pro, except, uh, we won't,
01:15:03 ◼ ► either we won't put Xeons in there or we will put Xeons in there as an option. So, but we're not
01:15:08 ◼ ► going to even call it the iMac Pro. We're just going to call it the iMac. And then we're going
01:15:13 ◼ ► to keep the 4k and non retina low end iMac kicking around using the existing technology. That's
01:15:22 ◼ ► been there forever. Spinning drives are available. Fusion drives are available, and that's going to
01:15:27 ◼ ► let us hit a lower prices and we're going to continue to sell those. But on the higher end,
01:15:31 ◼ ► with the big iMac, we're going to fold the iMac Pro into the big iMac. That's my prediction is that
01:15:38 ◼ ► I don't think they're going to take the iMac Pro effort that they did in engineering and throw it
01:15:42 ◼ ► away, but I kind of have a hard time seeing them, um, keeping it around. I hope they do, but
01:15:51 ◼ ► there's like three products in two slots right now. Like the iMac Pro is kind of both an iMac
01:15:56 ◼ ► and a Mac Pro, and I don't know if they need that, that computer. I think that they could do with
01:16:08 ◼ ► powerful processor. And then that will go high end enough that beyond that point you say,
01:16:15 ◼ ► now you need to go to the Mac Pro. I think the iMac Pro as a line doesn't need to exist. It can
01:16:19 ◼ ► just be the highest end iMac that replaces it, as you say, and if you really need more,
01:16:24 ◼ ► go to the Mac Pro. Like, I think that what they should do is what you said, right? Like a new iMac
01:16:30 ◼ ► that if you spec it up right to the top is like super powerful. So then the iMac Pro just doesn't
01:16:34 ◼ ► need to be there anymore. And that's why we've not seen it. Because honestly, as anybody who's used
01:16:40 ◼ ► those modern iMacs, like last year's iMacs, will tell you, oh, if you get a high-end processor,
01:16:47 ◼ ► like those fans, those fans go on and they go on loud because the old iMac thermal, uh, system is
01:16:55 ◼ ► not, it's struggling at the edges of that. And the iMac Pro does not have a problem with it,
01:17:01 ◼ ► but what you give up is the spinning disk stuff. And I think, uh, yeah, so an iMac with a T2 and,
01:17:07 ◼ ► uh, a great cooling system and SSD only, like the time is here and that product's already been
01:17:13 ◼ ► designed and it's the iMac Pro. So why not just use that as the new iMac and say, Hey, that iMac
01:17:18 ◼ ► Pro, that's what the iMac is now. And you know, there can, there can not be Xeons in it and it's
01:17:23 ◼ ► fine. It's fine. I would like to see a refreshed industrial design. Yeah. I just, I feel like maybe
01:17:29 ◼ ► they're never going to do that. I, or not do that anytime soon. I don't want to say never,
01:17:33 ◼ ► cause there's always something, but I feel like they must be comfortable with it. I would love
01:17:37 ◼ ► to see less bezel on the iMac and maybe they they'll do that, but I don't know. I don't know.
01:17:44 ◼ ► Can make the screen a little bit bigger, you know, reduce the bezels, make the screen bigger.
01:17:50 ◼ ► I would like that. I would like that. That'd be nice. Um, what else on the Mac do you think we're
01:17:55 ◼ ► gonna, do you think catalyst is gonna Phoenix its way out of the flames? Hmm. I would like,
01:18:04 ◼ ► there's what I, what I would like is for Apple to get it together and, uh, improve catalyst and,
01:18:11 ◼ ► uh, you know, keep pushing catalyst ahead so that in the OS release that happens in the fall,
01:18:16 ◼ ► um, catalyst is that much more, more good and able to be make good Mac apps. And that's what
01:18:23 ◼ ► I would like. Do I think that's going to happen? I see very little evidence that it's going to happen.
01:18:28 ◼ ► So I think, I think we will see more catalyst apps in 2020, because I think one of the reasons
01:18:34 ◼ ► the catalyst is, is not as big as we thought it would be is because of its limitations. But I
01:18:40 ◼ ► think that it's also that the developers are just too busy with everything else. Like the apps that
01:18:46 ◼ ► I expected to be using on my Mac that were from iOS, um, to my knowledge are basically not even
01:18:53 ◼ ► being developed right now for catalyst. And it's because I was 13. Was, you know, compatibility
01:19:00 ◼ ► updates were hard and then new feature updates are hard. It was a tough summer. And then you'll
01:19:04 ◼ ► look at catalyst and like, well, I'm not prioritizing that right now. So I, I don't know.
01:19:10 ◼ ► I, I, so I would like to see more catalyst improvements, but I don't think I could predict it.
01:19:25 ◼ ► Uh, you would think that if they introduced an I'm or an iPad pro in late 2018, that was faster
01:19:33 ◼ ► than 90 plus percent of all laptops released that year, that Apple. And I ha I did have a friend of
01:19:38 ◼ ► mine say that it's a friend of a friend thing, uh, say that he talked to this guy who was very
01:19:44 ◼ ► technically knowledgeable, who said, Oh, making a mobile processor is easy. Making a computer
01:19:49 ◼ ► processor is hard and they're not, you can't, you know, so when people say Apple is going to
01:19:53 ◼ ► make their own arm processors for their, for the max, that's not going to happen. It's much,
01:19:57 ◼ ► it's much too hard. And it's like, I see the argument from a, uh, especially like across the
01:20:07 ◼ ► that's in the iPad pro and think that could be in an arm Mac book and it would be probably faster
01:20:17 ◼ ► than the Mac book was. So, um, I w I feel like it's an inevitability that Apple's going to use
01:20:24 ◼ ► their own processors on part of the Mac line at least. But when, uh, again, I just put it out
01:20:32 ◼ ► there for this year cause it didn't happen last year or the year before the year before that. And
01:20:36 ◼ ► I keep predicting it, but I feel like there's a hole in the consumer laptop, you know, the,
01:20:43 ◼ ► the Mac book air has arrived, which is great, but they have one consumer laptop. Wouldn't it be nice
01:20:49 ◼ ► if they had another, they did that thin and light and unbelievable battery life laptop story again,
01:20:54 ◼ ► but this time it was with, uh, an arm laptop. So I'll, sure I'll predict it, but I've been wrong
01:21:00 ◼ ► every year since I started predicting it. So we spoke about catalysts. What about software in
01:21:05 ◼ ► general across Apple's platforms? Do you have any key themes that you think Apple are going to focus
01:21:10 ◼ ► on in 2020? It's good to have themes, isn't it? Themes of the year are pretty good. I've heard.
01:21:15 ◼ ► I got a, I got to think that the, after iOS 13 and after Catalina, that there's going to be some,
01:21:28 ◼ ► for more shortcuts stuff because I think that that gets Apple, um, building a structure in which
01:21:36 ◼ ► third-party developers and users can build their own stuff. So you don't have to build it for them
01:21:42 ◼ ► is something that every computing platform really needs to get to at some point. And, and it takes
01:21:49 ◼ ► the burden off of you as a, as a platform developer to say, look, we gave you the tools
01:21:53 ◼ ► to automate this, to add these features yourself. We were not going to do it. iOS isn't there yet,
01:21:59 ◼ ► so they've got more work to do. I think the share sheet they've been refining it. That needs to keep
01:22:03 ◼ ► getting better. It's still kind of messy, but I think it's a good direction where, you know,
01:22:08 ◼ ► you get a menu of items and it's items from the app and from other apps and suggestions,
01:22:14 ◼ ► I like continue to refine that. Um, and then let's throw in the cursor support. Like I would really
01:22:19 ◼ ► like to see them go further down that route for iPad, uh, OS and more broadly, they named it iPad
01:22:26 ◼ ► OS last year. So I would like to believe that that means they will have to add some iPad specific
01:22:35 ◼ ► features. There's no option. In a way that they otherwise have not every other year for the last
01:22:41 ◼ ► six years. This is not a question in my mind anymore. This is a necessity. There has to be
01:22:47 ◼ ► features to iPad OS specifically. You have to do it. It has to get it stage time and you do it
01:22:59 ◼ ► even if you only add a little, you give watchOS time every year, even if you only add a little,
01:23:03 ◼ ► iPad OS needs this time and you give it something. It could be anything, but it's got to be something
01:23:08 ◼ ► and it has to be iPad specific. Otherwise there was absolutely no point in calling it iPad OS.
01:23:14 ◼ ► You may as well just kept it as iOS. No one was like, well, okay, I say no one in inverted
01:23:19 ◼ ► commas. Nobody was really asking for iPad to be spun off in this way. Like we were mostly fine.
01:23:27 ◼ ► Like, you know, it was thoughts of like, wouldn't it be interesting or wouldn't it be nice? But like
01:23:31 ◼ ► no one was like, you must do this Apple. Everybody's just wanted features, but you decided
01:23:36 ◼ ► Apple, you took the step to call it a separate operating system. Uh, you know, again, it's not
01:23:42 ◼ ► separate, but they market it differently. It has a separate set of features. That means you have to
01:23:46 ◼ ► commit. Otherwise it was no point. Do you have a wild card? I know you do. I've read the articles,
01:23:52 ◼ ► but can you please tell me your wild card pick for 2020? The dream that will never die.
01:24:03 ◼ ► something like that. Never chosen as the card. Um, iPad OS laptop. Like I know it's, I know it's
01:24:12 ◼ ► not going to happen almost certainly, but like all the pieces are there. They could do it if they
01:24:16 ◼ ► want to, if they want to iterate on the, I, on the iPad and iPad iOS in a way that they've expanded
01:24:24 ◼ ► the iPad line. I talked about how there's clearly some interest in people in using iOS in a laptop
01:24:31 ◼ ► sort of shape. If you couple that with improvements again, improvements to cursor support.
01:24:38 ◼ ► Um, I don't know. They could make an iPad OS laptop that would be what we've already described,
01:24:46 ◼ ► which is why don't we take this thing that is a very functional operating system and getting
01:24:51 ◼ ► better every year and put it in a laptop shape for people who want a laptop shape. I don't really
01:24:56 ◼ ► want this product because I like, I like using a tablet. That's why I use the iPad the most is
01:25:01 ◼ ► that I use a tablet, but I do know people and I think people exist who would really love the idea
01:25:07 ◼ ► of using iPad OS as a laptop and maybe it folds over and maybe it's convertible or something like
01:25:13 ◼ ► that. But I don't know. I think this product could exist and it's a question of, uh, does Apple want
01:25:18 ◼ ► it to exist? I think all signs point to them not wanting it to exist, but I got to make a wacky
01:25:24 ◼ ► pic. This is my Ricky pic, Myke. Uh, thank you. They made a video iPod, you know, who wants one
01:25:29 ◼ ► of those things when made one. So right. I just, I, the, the, this is like the flip side of the
01:25:35 ◼ ► coin that I'm flipping for my arm Mac, which is an arm laptop would have very long battery life.
01:25:49 ◼ ► Microsoft office and like there are very capable apps. You could, as somebody who uses an iPad as
01:25:55 ◼ ► an, as a laptop, sometimes you could totally do it even without a track pad, you could totally do it.
01:26:01 ◼ ► So, you know, it's, it would be a little more like a Chromebook. It would not have the full
01:26:07 ◼ ► Mac experience, but it would have the full iPad iOS experience. I could sit in that room before
01:26:12 ◼ ► being escorted out. Who is this guy? He doesn't work here. Get him out and, and make that claim,
01:26:16 ◼ ► which is okay. We're not confident in making an arm Mac iOS device right now. Why don't we make
01:26:23 ◼ ► an arm laptop? And it's just the same internals more or less that are going in the iPad pro that
01:26:30 ◼ ► we're doing, except it's attached to a keyboard. I, you know, again, if Apple was not as conservative
01:26:40 ◼ ► as they are in terms of what products they release, if they were more like Samsung, it's like, sure.
01:26:45 ◼ ► Or even Microsoft, let's put it out, see what happens. I think they, we would already have seen
01:26:50 ◼ ► it, but I think that Apple is always reluctant to release a product if they don't think that there's
01:26:55 ◼ ► an enormous market for it. And, um, I think there's a real question about whether this would be
01:27:00 ◼ ► an enormous product that, that said as part of a product line that includes the iPad pro and the
01:27:05 ◼ ► iPad and the iPad air and the iPad mini maybe. So that's Jason's 2020 predictions. I look forward
01:27:16 ◼ ► to it. Lay it back in 12 months. Folks. This episode is brought to you by door dash. We have
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01:29:38 ◼ ► door dash for their support of this show and relay FM. Jason Snell. Hi Carly. Can we talk about the
01:29:46 ◼ ► best thing? Well, the best named thing ever project connected home over IP. This is a terrible name
01:29:53 ◼ ► for a great thing. This was announced a few weeks ago and I really wanted to talk about it. I didn't
01:29:57 ◼ ► want to let it go. Uh, basically all of the major smart home tech companies like Apple, Google,
01:30:03 ◼ ► and Amazon, along with selection of accessory makers are joining together to create an alliance
01:30:08 ◼ ► called the connected home over IP. This has been given various names. I like the name chip. I think
01:30:13 ◼ ► you like the name chop. Right? Yeah. It's very NASA to go the other way and say it's a, the over
01:30:19 ◼ ► is what counts. And then we ignore the I and go to the P cause NASA does stupid stuff like that all
01:30:26 ◼ ► the time when they're making their acronyms. I think I've changed my mind and I want to call
01:30:29 ◼ ► it Choy, like C H O I. So I'm going to go with Choy. Yeah. But the fact that the press release
01:30:34 ◼ ► doesn't give it a name that's cute and clever suggests that that's not going to be the name.
01:30:38 ◼ ► I liked that all of the names you're proposing at the end of the article, like smart home everywhere
01:30:43 ◼ ► or any have any tech home hub, like just like some stupid name that they're going to give it.
01:30:48 ◼ ► But look, the naming doesn't matter because what has happened is that these companies have
01:30:53 ◼ ► announced plans to create an open source protocol for all of their devices to work together no
01:30:58 ◼ ► matter who makes them. This is a quote from the website. The goal is to simplify development for
01:31:03 ◼ ► manufacturers and increase compatibility for consumers. The project is built around a shared
01:31:08 ◼ ► belief that smart home devices should be secure, reliable and seamless to use, which is great.
01:31:14 ◼ ► This is just great. It's exactly what you want. You never thought you're going to get it right,
01:31:18 ◼ ► because it doesn't make sense when you think about how Apple, Google and Amazon specifically work.
01:31:23 ◼ ► Like why on earth would they want to work together? We'll maybe get to that in a minute,
01:31:31 ◼ ► After the announcement of this, Apple open sourced some parts of their home kit accessory
01:31:44 ◼ ► The real likely outcome of this is that a company could like more quickly tinker around to see if
01:31:56 ◼ ► certification is going to change. I feel like the MFI certification that people still need to go
01:32:03 ◼ ► through is not going to be the same because of this new... Well, for home kit stuff, I would
01:32:10 ◼ ► assume that this organization will have a certification system that's fairly straightforward.
01:32:14 ◼ ► We'll just say works with whatever we call it. Works with CHOP, joy. Works with any tech home hub.
01:32:22 ◼ ► Right. So dream life spot. Home smart life future, whatever it's going to be. But like you
01:32:30 ◼ ► expect that it will change in some way. But I think it's cool that Apple immediately did something
01:32:35 ◼ ► with it like, "All right, so now this is open source. Go wild." Which is a great way to stir
01:32:41 ◼ ► up a bit more excitement in this community. Can I read a quote from you, Jason, that you wrote in
01:32:47 ◼ ► My quick hit reaction to this is that we're so far down the smart home path that the major players
01:32:52 ◼ ► have realized none of them have dominated the initial land grab. And now all of them face a
01:32:56 ◼ ► barrier to growth because of the incompatibility of the different smart home tech approaches.
01:33:01 ◼ ► So basically, everyone's doing their own thing. There's a bunch of stuff out there. None of it
01:33:09 ◼ ► It used to be our way to grow is to dominate and make everybody be inside our silo. And now we've
01:33:15 ◼ ► reached the point where they all look around and say, "Our growth is being limited by this silo."
01:33:19 ◼ ► It's like, "Yeah, it is. Nobody won. Nobody completely blew out everyone else and brought
01:33:25 ◼ ► them to their knees. Everybody's in their little silos." And the third-party developers hate the
01:33:30 ◼ ► fact that they have to build integrations with all of these different kinds of home platforms
01:33:35 ◼ ► instead of just one. And so everybody... This is like, to me, this is disarmament. This is
01:33:40 ◼ ► everybody realizing they are better off working together than trying to force everybody into their
01:33:53 ◼ ► create more growth for them than control over a silo. And you would think Apple would be the last
01:34:05 ◼ ► ever since it realized that it had to stop enforcing its hardware encryption and things
01:34:09 ◼ ► like that. Apple has been backpedaling on how porous its silo is for a while now because they
01:34:28 ◼ ► talky hub thing, the thing you talk to. Apple only make those products and then everything else has
01:34:34 ◼ ► to be certified. The rest of the stuff... So the other companies, they're making other stuff.
01:34:40 ◼ ► When I look at this whole thing, I feel like the fly in the ointment was Amazon. Amazon got in
01:34:45 ◼ ► early and established this market, got a lot of product into a lot of homes. The Echo seems
01:34:51 ◼ ► to be a pretty popular thing because they sell it so cheaply. You can get into that ecosystem.
01:34:56 ◼ ► But then Amazon couldn't capitalize because they don't have the rest of the ecosystem. They don't
01:35:04 ◼ ► have phones and tablets that people are really buying en masse and using. So they got out there,
01:35:11 ◼ ► started integrating with anyone in any way they possibly could and probably made it harder for
01:35:17 ◼ ► a Google or an Apple to really own it because people were already using the Amazon devices.
01:35:22 ◼ ► And basically no one's been able to create a full solution, which seems obvious now when you look at
01:35:28 ◼ ► it. No one was ever going to be able to do this. And I expect that some stuff's like happening
01:35:33 ◼ ► where companies like Philips were going to the larger companies like to Apple and being like,
01:35:38 ◼ ► "Look, you are this percent of our market now. We are not interested in going through a certification
01:35:45 ◼ ► review anymore because if we just go with the other guys, it's easy." I imagine stuff like that
01:35:51 ◼ ► started happening. So then these companies started bounding together. Or it might have been a case of
01:35:56 ◼ ► again, a company like a Philips, like a large company going to all of them and being like,
01:36:04 ◼ ► integrate with us now instead? How about that?" I reckon that what we're going to end up with here
01:36:11 ◼ ► is something akin to Bluetooth in the sense that like, so AirPods, they are Bluetooth headphones
01:36:22 ◼ ► But when you pair them to an Apple device, they have extra features. And I reckon that what will
01:36:29 ◼ ► end up happening is yes, smart home devices work in the overall thing and you can use this product
01:36:36 ◼ ► with this company, this company, this product, this company. But if you get like these like
01:36:41 ◼ ► ordained pairs, they get additional features, right? So like you can use Nest with the HomePod,
01:36:47 ◼ ► but if you use Nest with Google Home, it gives you a little bit more. You know what I mean?
01:36:57 ◼ ► at least two and I think maybe three little wireless things that are attached to my network
01:37:05 ◼ ► at home that are separate from my wifi network in order to talk to specific devices that I have in
01:37:12 ◼ ► my home that are smart home devices, right? Like I've got a Phillips Hue hub, I've got a Lutron
01:37:18 ◼ ► Casita hub, I've got an Arlo camera hub and they're each doing, Arlo is actually doing wifi,
01:37:28 ◼ ► but it's like its own, the others are whatever, they're Zigbee or whatever, they're like other
01:37:33 ◼ ► wireless protocols. And that's the over IP part of this thing is it's also coming together and saying,
01:37:40 ◼ ► we need to come up with standards for wireless and communication over IP, internet protocol,
01:37:48 ◼ ► so that there's interoperability. I think that means that in the long run, it may not be that
01:37:53 ◼ ► everything has embedded wifi that just works with your wifi router, but if not that, that you should
01:37:59 ◼ ► be able in this future, in a few years, you should be able to buy like a hub from anyone and all
01:38:10 ◼ ► devices that use that will just be able to use it. So like in my example, I think if this all comes
01:38:16 ◼ ► to pass, I wouldn't have needed to buy two or three different little wireless bridges for
01:38:24 ◼ ► specific kinds of tech. There'd just be like, get a wireless bridge or don't use one at all,
01:38:30 ◼ ► cause we're using wifi. And that would be a huge thing. Cause it's ridiculous that you're like,
01:38:35 ◼ ► Oh, I'd like to buy this light bulb, but in order to do that, I have to buy this plastic box and
01:38:49 ◼ ► like the more I got into it, it was like, this is just becoming so much more complicated than I
01:38:54 ◼ ► wanted it to be. But we are also in that boat of like, we have the home pod and I use the home pod
01:39:01 ◼ ► to do like to control our lights and stuff. But we also use the echo for that. And the echo is
01:39:08 ◼ ► used more in our home. Like we had it first. So we trained ourselves to just say the Amazon wake word
01:39:23 ◼ ► and the home pod doesn't. So like we have a Dyson fan that you can control and our Roomba,
01:39:28 ◼ ► you can control with the echo. So we're never going to leave that because we have some benefits
01:39:33 ◼ ► there. And honestly, the home pod, we don't use a ton for the smart home stuff because we would
01:39:45 ◼ ► if anybody has used home bridge, which I use, which is like a piece of software that you can run
01:39:50 ◼ ► that it does what it says, it connects these different things. It's basically home kit.
01:39:55 ◼ ► It's a home kit bridge that takes things that aren't home kit compatible and puts them on
01:40:00 ◼ ► home kit. And it's great, but really what it says to me is that's what the future needs to be.
01:40:12 ◼ ► Like because I'm using home kit, I'm using an Apple device and I plug in a Google device,
01:40:18 ◼ ► it should just show up, right? It shouldn't be like, "Oh no, I don't work with home kit.
01:40:22 ◼ ► I only work with Google and Amazon." That's so frustrating and so annoying. So I think it also
01:40:29 ◼ ► means that you could probably, there'll be like a bridge product that will backward compatibility
01:40:35 ◼ ► everything, and it will probably be based on home bridge, but that would be nice, right? To not have,
01:40:40 ◼ ► it's going to take time, but we will ideally, and I think this is going to happen. I'm not
01:40:46 ◼ ► too skeptical about it. I think it's going to take time and you're going to have old products
01:40:50 ◼ ► that you're going to have to replace and it's going to be annoying. But I do think we're going
01:40:52 ◼ ► to reach, enter the second phase where everything's just going to work on everybody's home systems.
01:41:08 ◼ ► going to say, "Oh, Philips, all their old light bulbs now will just show up on home kit." No,
01:41:14 ◼ ► that may be a bad example because they actually do work with home kit. But I think you're going to
01:41:18 ◼ ► have orphan products that won't get a firmware update or something to work, right? They're not
01:41:24 ◼ ► going to work. It's going to be a new standard and new things are going to be certified and the stuff
01:41:28 ◼ ► that is new-ish at the time that it all gets worked out will become compatible and the stuff
01:41:34 ◼ ► that already worked with all of them will stay. But I'm sure that if you've got some smart thermostat
01:41:40 ◼ ► that only works with Alexa and Google Home, let's say, and not home kit, and then they do this thing,
01:41:48 ◼ ► it's not going to get a software update to work with home kit. I don't think that'll happen. So
01:41:53 ◼ ► like your first-generation Nest thermostat that you're still using that doesn't work with home kit
01:41:58 ◼ ► unless you use Homebridge, it's not going to get a software update. That's never going to happen.
01:42:08 ◼ ► Choi because I think that this is needed to continue the advancement of this type of technology
01:42:20 ◼ ► Bring on smart life home hub tech bot plus. - Plus pro. Smart home plus pro. That's what
01:42:30 ◼ ► we're going to call it. Everyone loves pluses and pros. This episode is brought to you by Booz Allen.
01:42:42 ◼ ► and analytics to work more efficiently and make fast decisions. And everyone needs new ways of
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01:43:01 ◼ ► They provide open source solutions so clients can integrate innovation from anywhere, whether from
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01:43:25 ◼ ► BoozAllen.com/Relay. That's BoozAllen.com/Relay. Our thanks to Booz Allen for their support of this
01:43:37 ◼ ► Ian asks, Myke, you previously mentioned that you like white text on a dark background. Does
01:43:51 ◼ ► But I am not interested in doing that. I like colored inks. I like lots of color in my ink,
01:43:59 ◼ ► - Also, that's not how it works. It's like they don't make a flash dark that shines dark.
01:44:08 ◼ ► Where you point it, it only works the one way. You cast light, you don't cast dark out. And you don't
01:44:17 ◼ ► put light ink on. No, that's not how it works. - Aloha. That is a joke from the Flop House.
01:44:25 ◼ ► I just wanted to just for the sake of the Flop House episode about the Rise of Skywalker is so
01:44:33 ◼ ► good. It's an absolute classic. I have not listened to the Flop House for a while. Like it just fell
01:44:39 ◼ ► off my radar for a bit. I'm so back in now because I remembered exactly why I love this show. And
01:44:44 ◼ ► that was it. It is absolutely fantastic. If you liked the movie, you might not be a big fan of the
01:45:00 ◼ ► Do you? - Yeah. Yeah. That's how you search your photos for where they were taken. Yeah, for sure.
01:45:14 ◼ ► sharing images, it would have location data built into it. - These days, almost everything has a
01:45:26 ◼ ► they added an iOS feature that I really like where when you go into the share sheet, there's a little
01:45:31 ◼ ► text button that says "Options" where if you're sending an image to somebody, you could choose
01:45:36 ◼ ► to remove it for that image, which that wasn't the case before. If you text me or AirDrop a photo to
01:45:43 ◼ ► me, it would have all the data in it. You can now turn it off. And you can also, like with live
01:45:47 ◼ ► photos, you can also turn off the live photo data in that screen. I really like that. I think that
01:45:52 ◼ ► was a nice little addition that Apple made with iOS 13. But yeah, like you, right? Like sometimes,
01:45:58 ◼ ► I can only find an image because of the location. - No, the user benefit to have the, you know,
01:46:05 ◼ ► find it on a map or search for a particular place and have it turn up is far too great. And,
01:46:11 ◼ ► you know, I don't think there's an issue here. I would have an issue sharing a picture with
01:46:22 ◼ ► that is not, yeah, it doesn't really happen. Like, I feel like we've come far enough that
01:46:29 ◼ ► I'm not paranoid about this. As concerned as I am about privacy, this is not where I'm concerned.
01:46:35 ◼ ► - Right. But yeah, but like in the same vein, like it's just a kind of a thing of I don't take,
01:46:50 ◼ ► - I know, but when I share images like that online, Jason, I meticulously look through it.
01:46:55 ◼ ► - OpsSec, yeah, sure. Yeah, it doesn't have like your neighbors' street signs and things like that.
01:47:06 ◼ ► I just look now because it's, you know, you're gonna get questions. Like this one from Johan,
01:47:20 ◼ ► - You don't know? You don't have your phone there? You got your phone there? You can open it.
01:47:49 ◼ ► Didn't messages always used to be top left? Is that why yours is there? Like that's how
01:47:56 ◼ ► - Yeah, that might be. I don't know, I have messages in phone. They're cuddling up there.
01:48:10 ◼ ► Has live photos and the introduction of that changed the way that you take photos on your iPhone?"
01:48:25 ◼ ► I'm sharing a photo and it gives me the little icon that says, "Do you want to share the live photo?"
01:48:28 ◼ ► And I go, "No, I don't." And I have to turn it off because mostly I don't. There are moments
01:48:34 ◼ ► where I've captured video and I'm very happy that I've gotten it. Mostly not. I would say
01:48:40 ◼ ► the thing that would really push live photos over the edge for me is I'd like it to take a little
01:48:45 ◼ ► bit more video than it does. And I'd like it to grab more photo quality stills than it does.
01:48:53 ◼ ► - Yes. - So that I could also scrub through and say, "That's actually the still I want."
01:49:03 ◼ ► It should be capturing more photos, which you can dump. Get rid of the photos after a period of time
01:49:08 ◼ ► if you want to. I would like that too. That's a good one. I'm going to say, and I think I said
01:49:13 ◼ ► this before, I stand by it. Live photos is one of my favorite additions to iOS that's ever been
01:49:18 ◼ ► added. I love live photos because it makes scrolling my photos more engaging. I love it
01:49:25 ◼ ► when you're scrolling through and there's a little bit of movement to it. It's like I'm in Harry
01:49:28 ◼ ► Potter or something. It helps to add content to the videos that iOS generates for you. There's
01:49:35 ◼ ► little videos that photos just sometimes gives you. There can be sometimes movies in those because
01:49:41 ◼ ► it's pulling them from live photos. There are times where I take photos specifically because
01:49:46 ◼ ► they will be good live photos. Then I also like to use the bounce and loop effects that you can
01:49:52 ◼ ► change in the photos app to create some fun animations. I really love live photos. There
01:49:58 ◼ ► are some photos that I have that are some of my favorites because they're great live photos,
01:50:15 ◼ ► I like pairing these two questions together. Stuart asks, "How many Slofies did you take
01:50:30 ◼ ► but I never think to use it. I completely forgot that the selfie camera could take slow motion
01:50:37 ◼ ► video. I find slow motion video is usually really low quality. I understand why, but it makes me
01:50:47 ◼ ► hesitant to ever use slow motion unless I'm in really good conditions and then I usually don't
01:50:52 ◼ ► remember to do it anyway. Finally today, Tony asks, "I have yet to see even one sign in with
01:51:03 ◼ ► - I have seen one in one app called Tripsey and I use it for Tripsey. Now I looked into this
01:51:11 ◼ ► because my expectation from WWDC is like not only were they going to be here, Apple was going to
01:51:19 ◼ ► enforce it with an iron fist, right? So some of the rules changed during development and it's
01:51:28 ◼ ► starting off much more slowly. This was an example of Apple listening to feedback, clarifying the
01:51:34 ◼ ► apps that had to use it and adding some exceptions and being a bit more gentle about it. So there are
01:51:39 ◼ ► a bunch of application types which is defined in the guidelines now to like, you don't need to do
01:51:45 ◼ ► this. Like if your app is an app for a service, right? Like if you're making a Twitter app,
01:51:50 ◼ ► you don't need to have sign in with Apple. It doesn't make any sense because like you need
01:51:54 ◼ ► Twitter or like if you're a corporate app and stuff like that. So they made some changes there,
01:51:59 ◼ ► which I think is really great. They also extended the deadline date for existing apps to update.
01:52:05 ◼ ► So if you create a new app that has these sign in buttons, you do have to add this now. But if you
01:52:12 ◼ ► are an existing application that has sign in with Google, sign in with Facebook, April 2020 is now
01:52:19 ◼ ► the deadline date. So they moved it, which I think is great. They gave people more time. They made
01:52:23 ◼ ► some clarification stuff. So it is still happening, but it's taking a bit longer than as originally
01:52:31 ◼ ► suggested. Yeah, this is funny. This is a thing that Apple has done in a few places because
01:52:37 ◼ ► they also announced that they were going to require notarization of Mac apps outside of the
01:52:44 ◼ ► Mac app store, which notarization is basically you're a third party developer who's got a Mac
01:52:49 ◼ ► app that you're not selling in the Mac app store and notarize it, which you upload it to Apple
01:52:54 ◼ ► servers and they have an automated scan and check and then they cryptographically sign it and they
01:52:59 ◼ ► send it back to you. And that is like a, so you have an Apple developer account and you've had
01:53:06 ◼ ► it signed by Apple and this is their way of putting a level of security on stuff that's
01:53:12 ◼ ► outside the app store. And it's not a formal approval process, but it's this sort of robot
01:53:18 ◼ ► approval process. And they said that you would basically get rejected. Your app would be rejected
01:53:24 ◼ ► by the launch demon in Catalina if it wasn't notarized by a certain date. And they pushed
01:53:32 ◼ ► that date back, I think maybe a couple of times. I think it's coming up now, but they pushed that
01:53:41 ◼ ► back because they got feedback that it was too fast and that the developers needed more time,
01:53:50 ◼ ► if you hold down control and click on the app and choose open from the pop-up and it will let you
01:53:59 ◼ ► open it anyway. If you change your security settings, this is all by default. So it's not
01:54:10 ◼ ► That if a random app on the internet is not by a registered Apple developer and has not passed
01:54:15 ◼ ► through Apple servers to be approved by default, it won't open. It won't open anymore. You can get
01:54:23 ◼ ► it to open by changing your settings, but it's not going to open by default. That's a big thing,
01:54:27 ◼ ► but they did push that back as well. So I think that's a good sign. We can debate whether these
01:54:33 ◼ ► things are good or bad, but definitely I think it's a good sign that Apple has heard feedback.
01:54:41 ◼ ► implementing them and say, "This doesn't actually make sense." And that Apple's like, "You're right.
01:54:45 ◼ ► We're going to adjust this. We're going to delay it a little bit." So some of that is going on
01:54:49 ◼ ► inside Apple. They're not just a cold unfeeling black box that makes deadlines that you have to
01:54:55 ◼ ► follow all the time. Just some of the time. If you'd like to send in a question for us to
01:55:02 ◼ ► answer on the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #askupgrade. Please send those in
01:55:06 ◼ ► because we've not been doing that for a couple of weeks. We don't have so many. So send out a tweet
01:55:11 ◼ ► with the hashtag #askupgrade if you have a question you would like us to answer. So my backlog is
01:55:16 ◼ ► getting smaller on those. Thanks so much to our sponsors this week. That's DoorDash, Booz Allen,
01:55:21 ◼ ► KiwiCo, and Squarespace. You can find Jason online at sixcolors.com and he is @jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L,
01:55:28 ◼ ► on social media platforms. I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. You can find show notes for this show, including