280: De Niro Can’t Bend
  
   
 
 
 
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     From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 280. Today's show is brought to you by 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Hullo, ExpressVPN and Booz Allen. My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Jason Snow. Hi Jason Snow. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Hi Myke Hurley, how are you? I'm fine and dandy, my friend, fine and dandy. I have a hashtag SnowTalkQuestion. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Comes from James this week and James wants to know, "Jason, what is your favorite gluten-free beer?" 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Oh my, well this is a very targeted question, isn't it? So it is, you're the man, you're the man with the answer. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     For those who don't know, it's a long story that I don't enjoy at all, but at the advice of my doctor, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I have been told to not have gluten in my diet anymore. It's a lot, I don't even want to get into it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     People ask me, "Do you feel better?" Because it's been like seven months now that I've done gluten-free. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I was like, "No, that's the problem. I have no symptoms." But they told me that I'm allergic to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So okay, great. Just stop drinking regular beer, start drinking beer brewed with weird, weird, weird grains. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And I have tried a bunch of different ones, although a lot of people on Twitter were suggesting ones that are not available in California, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     which doesn't really help me. I'll look for them when I travel. But something I did find that was available in California 
     
     
  
 
 
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     actually comes from Canada, comes from Montreal. It is the hilariously named Glutenburg Brewery. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I would drink this beer because the name is so good. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It's great, and they have these little pint cans with the kind of German writing on them that say "Glutenburg." 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Anyway, the Glutenburg Stout is my favorite style of beer, and the Glutenburg Stout is good. It's not great. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It's not nearly as good as some of my favorite Stouts back when I could have gluten, but it's good. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And they have a Gose, which is a kind of a light beer with sort of citrusy things in it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     That's great, like legitimately great. Like, I would drink that whether or not I had a gluten thing, because it's really good. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And so those are the two that I think are my favorites. I have tried others. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And I will share a last little bit of trivia about this, which is I've gotten a lot of people saying, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     "Have you tried these beers where they brew them normally and then they use this clarifying enzyme that removes the gluten from them?" 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Which, like, Omission does that, and the Stone gluten-free beer does that. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And the answer is, technically those aren't gluten-free. They have gluten in them. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     They are very low in gluten because of the enzyme, but there are still traces of gluten. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And if you're somebody who's just sort of like on a diet, you can do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But if you're somebody who is supposed to have zero gluten in their diet, you can't drink those beers. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     They're not really gluten-free. You need to drink a beer that's not brewed with wheat or barley. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I guess that it's the same as like non-alcoholic beer, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     There's still like a tiny amount of alcohol left because you can only remove so much of it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Yeah, and I don't know what the rules are for that or whether it's an acceptable level or not, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but since this is technically an allergy, you're not supposed to increase the thing that you're allergic to. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I don't—like, it's not good for me to just have a little bit of peanuts in the same way that it is for me to have lots of peanuts. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like, just don't eat the peanuts. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     What we do, Myke, with this peanut beverage is we make it with peanuts, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and then we have a chemical that removes most of the peanuts. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And you're like, "You know what? I am not going to have that. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I've got to draw the line right there." 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Anyway, I have been drinking a lot in terms of alcohol anyway. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I can drink wine, and I've been drinking more cider, but just to get my alcohol content— 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Cider's good. Cider's good. There's lots of great options for cider. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Yeah, but I don't want to give up beer entirely. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So anyway, there's your gluten-free beer talk. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I endorse Glutenburg. Thank you, Canada. Thank you, Quebec. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     If you would like to send in a #snowtalk question like James did, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk, and it may be included in a future episode. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I have a couple of quick items. Well, one item for follow-up. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     We've got something to say about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I ordered one of the Brydge Pro Plus keyboards. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I ordered one for my 11-inch. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I believe I should get it within the next few weeks. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I think they started shipping in February. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     So yeah, that's the one that I can see myself more frequently using the trackpad, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     because my larger iPad, I do tend to use just at home. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I use it, as I spoke about last week, with like a mouse in a stand. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But my 11-inch, I treat more like a laptop, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like it is my travel iPad. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It's like the one that I would take with me when I go work anywhere or I'm traveling anywhere. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I can imagine wanting the integrated trackpad more there. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But yeah, so I ordered the 11-inch model. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     All right. Interesting. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I have hopefully a review unit coming off the assembly line. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I only used the prototype, so I'm curious to see what they tweak. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Because the prototypes, you know, they're not quite right. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     The firmware is not quite right. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And even like the tension in the mounting clips and stuff is not always quite right. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I'm looking forward to seeing what a fully functional Brydge Pro Plus is like sometime soon. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Oh, I wouldn't mind a review unit for my larger one, though. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     You know, it's great when they send you stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Yeah, they have been pretty good about that stuff, though, in the past. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But I'm really excited about it because, you know, as I said last week, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I really am a proponent for even the mouse support in its current form. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I know that there are features that are lacking. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And I know that yourself, right, you think that it's maybe not that great. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But I really value it now. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I would like to have that option more readily available to me. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I'm really excited about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I mentioned you in my Not By Name in my Macworld story. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I think last week where I said that I wanted Apple. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It was sort of keying off of what we talked about last week, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     the idea that the mouse support should be better, but there's a lot you can do. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And then it might lead to Apple potentially doing something more than the smart keyboard 
     
     
  
 
 
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     for the iPad Pro. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     If you could do better touch support or point device support, you could then put a pointer 
     
     
  
 
 
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     controller of some sort on a smart keyboard, and that would be better for Apple. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But one of the things I mentioned in passing is there's lots of different kinds of accessibility. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And I mentioned you Not By Name and just said that there's somebody I know who has, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     you know, like RSI issues. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And, you know, having pointing device for that person so they don't have to reach up 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and touch the screen, that's like a legitimate reason to do this kind of thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So you have a perfectly legitimate use of it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Whereas for me, I feel like when I try to use the mouse, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I feel like I'm doing more harm to my arms than good. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But everybody's body is different. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Yeah. Yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It's like, you know, if I use a mouse for too long, then it can cause me trouble. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I just have to rotate my input methods. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And that's why I really like having this as an option. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     All right. So should we do some upstream, Jason? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Now I feel like I'm in a really good place for upstream. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Ladies and gentlemen, now live from Beverly Hills, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     it's upstream hosted by Myke Hollywood Hurley. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - That's a very good intro for upstream. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And it's not a joke. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I am sitting right now located in Beverly Hills, high in the hills of Beverly Hills. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     That's where I am right now, Jason. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And I wanted to say that it's very funny driving around here, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     this kind of part of Beverly Hills, LA, these kinds of areas, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     because there are billboards for TV shows everywhere. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     They are everywhere. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like every billboard is a television show. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And that is, I mean, I know you see advertising for this type of stuff in all big cities, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but it feels very different here. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It feels much more like oppressive. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Well, it's a company town. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It's an industry town. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Yes, it is. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     I mean, we drove past like the Fox lot and stuff like that. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Is it Century City? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So like we've driven through there and we've seen some of that stuff when we was in a taxi. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But what I like is a lot of the billboards at the moment say, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     "For your consideration," which is funny. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     They're appealing to the Academy. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Come on Academy, give us the awards. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     So speaking of which you got to be in Beverly Hills in Hollywood, let's say more or less, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     for this morning's, as we record this, Academy Award nominations. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     - I'm reporting live. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Academy, I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Did you get any nominations yourself? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Still waiting. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I'm still waiting to see. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     They told me to call me. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I'm waiting on that one. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - My bad news, the ones for this year are already out. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So don't hold your breath. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Oh, that's unfortunate. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - You're going to have to wait at least one more year for your Oscar nomination. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - I'll keep working on it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But Netflix, as you would assume, are leading the Academy Award nominations because they 
     
     
  
 
 
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     produce the most movies of all of the streaming companies that we talk about, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like, you know, Amazon, Apple, they have some, but Netflix really, and especially in 2019, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     really pushed with movies, original movie content. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     They have 10 nominations for The Irishman and Marriage Story as well received a bunch. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And these are the two movies, I think, that have occupied the vast majority of the water cooler 
     
     
  
 
 
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     conversation, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like, I feel like I've seen a lot of people talking about these. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I've only seen The Irishman, which I am predisposed to love this movie because Martin 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Scorsese's movies are among my very favorite movies of all time, especially when they feature 
     
     
  
 
 
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     De Niro and Pesci, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like, they are absolutely my favorites. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And so I actually really enjoyed The Irishman. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It is not, you know, it is not Goodfellas. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like, Goodfellas, it is not. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     - But it is a very, very good movie. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     The special effects in that movie where they're doing a lot of aging, it's really impressive, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but I still can't help but notice it all the time. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     - Because I'm aware of the truth. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And so I find it distracting still, even though this was like, you could fool me. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And there are points where I was definitely fooled watching this movie thinking that like, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     "Oh, this is Joe Pesci now, but no, this is like Joe Pesci what he would have looked like 
     
     
  
 
 
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     15 years ago." 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like, it is very, very impressive. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     This is the most impressive of that technology, use of that technology that I've seen, but 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I still can't help but be aware of it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     You know what I mean? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     Yeah, no, I get it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     That's always the debate with de-aging and with virtual characters. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Like, I was just listening over the weekend to the Flop House guys were on, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     or Elliott Kaelin anyway, was on the Star Wars Minute a couple months ago, and they were 
     
     
  
 
 
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     talking about Rogue One, and they were talking about the Peter Cushing double that they used 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     And it's that great debate of like, if people don't know, you may not notice, you may let 
     
     
  
 
 
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     it go by you, and then other people know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And once you know, you kind of can't not see it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that 
     
     
  
 
 
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     it might be on us for looking forward or for being like, "I'm so aware of this actor that 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     I'm aware if I'd never seen this actor before, I wouldn't know whether they had been maybe 
     
     
  
 
 
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     aged up or aged down or whatever, but instead I know exactly what these actors look like 
     
     
  
 
 
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     at various phases of their life." 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And it's a challenge. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Can I ask you about this actually? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:24
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     ► 
     'Cause there's also a really interesting, it's called like, In Conversation With on 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:11:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just like a 25-minute DVD extra basically of Pacino, Pesci, De Niro, and Scorsese sitting 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     down and they're talking about the movie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they talk about this technology a lot and they touch on the idea of, you know, like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if we didn't have this technology, we wouldn't be able to do this movie and we'd have to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have somebody younger come in and we'd have to teach them to be like us and like, like 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to act like us. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:11:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And they were like, "That doesn't work the same way." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I kind of wonder, what is your, this is maybe a little bit of a hot button issue, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know, but what is your general feel on this type of technology, this like de-aging 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:12:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Do you think that it is like holding back younger actors? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because my kind of feeling on this is like, I understand that argument where they're like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "Oh, if you're using all this technology to make people younger or older, you are holding 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     back the roles from other people." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But my, I understand that, but I feel like these days there are more opportunities for 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     more movies than there's ever been before. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it's like, it's a bit of a weird, it's like a weird thing that's happening right 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     now, but I don't know if it's necessarily having that negative effect. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - So two things, one is I feel like the history of film from the very beginning is about pushing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     technology to tell stories in different ways. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Because they talk about like, "Oh, we could have just used makeup." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, I mean, and there are, there's some great, like people should follow Todd Vizziero 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:12:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He posts out some great stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's a video of like how they did this shot in a silent movie in the like '20s, I 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     think, where there's like a mirror. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I mean, it is for a hundred plus years, movies have been about fakery in order to tell 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the story they want to tell. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I think it's funny when people are like, "Oh, there's too much of this CGI or too much 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of this de-aging happening now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I want to see it the way, first off, you don't, a lot of it you don't even know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I want to see this movie that doesn't use it, that's really great." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like, that movie totally uses it too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You just don't know because you're not looking for it again to get back to like, if you don't 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     know to look for it, you may not even notice that it's there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But also it's the history of film that they do this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There is no point where you could legitimately draw a line and say, "Well, this far, but 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     no further." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think that this is just how it is. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're always trying. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Some of it works, some of it doesn't. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The tech keeps getting better. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then we find something new to complain about because the thing that we used to complain 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about is now so good that we all just kind of take it for granted. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that's one thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then the other thing is you talk about opportunity for, are there not opportunities 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for younger actors because of de-aging technology? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it actually makes me chuckle a little bit because the truth is Hollywood is famous 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for discarding older people because everybody needs to be young. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh yeah, good point. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's a very good point. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I would say there's plenty of opportunity for young, beautiful people. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that if some- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's now, with this technology, more opportunity for older actors. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     For older, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, seriously. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Now I do have those moments where I was reading articles about the Irishman and I was thinking, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:14:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, maybe you do want to do more body doubles. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Maybe this is something that people learn over time is that you can de-age people, but 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you can't de-age the old man body. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You could de-age his face. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They actually had this conversation. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was fascinating. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, because it's like De Niro can't bend like he used to. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They were saying, there were times where they had to stop. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, Scorsese was like, "No, like, Bob, you are supposed to be 20 years younger. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You need to walk down these stairs more quickly." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, and it seemed to be quite difficult for them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like they had to push themselves physically more than they normally would because there 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are times where they have to act like they're 45, not 75. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So maybe they end up with more- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Maybe these are all lessons that are learned and that in the end, they're like, "Okay, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we're going to do this scene with a body double and face replacement. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And we're going to do this scene where you're just standing there, where we're just going 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to use you entirely and de-age you." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And those are all, as weird as that sounds, those are all tools. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Those are all paint brushes in the tool kit of the artist. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're all colors of the palette, whatever metaphor you want to use. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They are all tools that can be used to make the final result look right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And maybe they learn over time that some of the physical acting of older actors who need 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to be de-aged need to be- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Some of the physical acting needs to be done by a body double instead, and they'll figure 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:15:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I'm not worried about Hollywood discarding young, pretty actors. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:15:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Anyway, getting back to the note at hand, I lost my body and Klaus, who I've nominated 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for the animated feature. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, so two of the five, I think, nominations for best animated feature are Netflix animated 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:16:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Frozen 2 didn't get nominated, by the way. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:16:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I watched Klaus over the holidays. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a cute movie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The animation is beautiful, and the story is fine. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, it's a funny little movie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's actually pretty good, actually. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, for an animated feature which includes no property that I've ever heard of before, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:16:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, I actually think it did a good job of creating something pretty original. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm going to give my endorsement, by the way, in this category for a movie called Missing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Link, which a lot of people missed. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:16:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's actually a stop motion animation movie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's in the style of, like, Aardman, but it's not. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's actually the guy who did- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, what was his previous movie? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Para Norman and Coraline. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Coraline, yeah, sure. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And Para Norman, which is a- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you have kids, you know about Para Norman. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Anyway, but Missing Link, really good, really good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, it's a movie about a Sasquatch who's adorable. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:17:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So Netflix has the most nominations. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's interesting. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You've been listening to us talk about it on an upstream. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You probably are not too surprised. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This was inevitable, really. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Another angle that you may have not been surprised by, because you've been listening to us, is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     one of the nominees is American Factory. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's notable because essentially that's the Academy inviting Barack and Michelle Obama 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to the Oscars, because that's the- literally the first release from Higher Ground Productions 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to Netflix as part of their deal with Netflix, and it got nominated for Best Doc. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This one missed me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I had no idea that this stuff had even begun. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, I was waiting to hear about the fact that they had things on the way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've not heard anything about this at all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, yeah, there you go. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And congratulations, Amazon Studios. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They got one nomination. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Hey, they got a nomination, though. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     What did they get the nomination for? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Les Misérables, I think. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:18:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Good for them, I suppose. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But still, Netflix, this is the- I think it's interesting because we had these conversations 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about how the movie industry's like, "Well, I don't know about Netflix. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Should we change the rules?" 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Remember Steven Spielberg's like, "Change the rules so Netflix can't be nominated." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you know what happened next? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They got 24 nominations. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, here we are. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Also, I feel at this point, Spielberg, look at who's working with Netflix. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can't ignore them anymore. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, that's okay. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     When they were new movies from up-and-coming directors, you can try and use your clout 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to ignore people. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But when Scorsese's making a movie which is nominated for Best Picture and it comes from 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Netflix, you have to ignore where it's coming from now because the establishment is now 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     moving into the streaming services. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, there's nothing you can do about it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, I feel like at this point, you have to accept it. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:18:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     To your point about the people like Martin Scorsese making these movies, I think there's 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     an argument- we may have made it at the time when Spielberg was complaining about this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, there's an argument to be made that given the kind of movies that get put in theaters 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     these days, there's a whole class of movies sort of like these mid-level movies and more 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     prestige movies that don't get much time in theaters. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so, I think Netflix and Amazon and Apple and whoever else is funding stuff for their 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     streaming services. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, movies are getting made and seen that would otherwise not get made and seen. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:19:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Look at Adam Sandler, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, these movies on Netflix, millions of people are watching them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Strong counterargument there, Myke. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, you know what I'm saying, though, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if that's what people enjoy, if that's what they want to see, let them see it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But people wouldn't see those movies in those numbers if they were in cinemas. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, like, this is just allowing for people to be seen. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I do want to see uncut gems, though, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like the Adam Sandler movie where he's the jewelry dealer. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:19:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That looks interesting. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That looks like an interesting movie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We've taken this way further than we expected. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Let's take a break and we'll come back and do more upstream. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     What about that, Jason Stan? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:19:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Today's episode is brought to you by Hello. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:59
     ◼
      
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     It's very different to regular fluffy pillows because it really supports your head and neck 
     
     
  
 
 
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	 00:20:23
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     ► 
     unlike feather or foam pillows. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:25
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     There's no warmth or humidity that gets contained within them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:28
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	 00:20:30
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	 00:20:32
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     And also you can adjust the pillow to be the exact size that you want because you can remove 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and add the filling very easily. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     They're popular all over the world. 
     
     
  
 
 
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	 00:20:47
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     ► 
     I do not have my Hello pillow and I miss it greatly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I use one pillow at home, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My Hello pillow when I'm traveling, I use like two or three to give me the kind of support 
     
     
  
 
 
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	 00:20:57
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     ◼
      
     ► 
     and milled in the US as well. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You may be curious to try one of these right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You should be and you can if you want to. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can sleep on it for 60 nights and then if Hello isn't right for you, you can just 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     send it back for a refund. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Go to HelloPillow.com/upgrade right now to get your own buckwheat pillow. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's HelloPillow.com/upgrade. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you buy more than one, they have a special discount. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can get up to $20 off depending on the size you opt for. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They have fast free shipping with every order and they also donate 1% of all profits to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the Nature Conservancy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Give it a try if you love it, you keep it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you don't, just send it back. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's HelloPillow.com/upgrade. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And thanks to Hello for their support of this show and Relay FM. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So talking about awards, we spoke about the Golden Globes last week. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You've gone Hollywood, Myke. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's more upstream. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You've totally gone Hollywood. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's all Hollywood. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     All upstream all the time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Special Hollywood correspondent Myke Hartley, one week only. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Billy Crudup. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He played, um, what is his name? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That creepy guy in the morning show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Corey Ellison in the morning show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He is my favorite character in that show and the critics agreed because he picked up the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     best supporting actor at the Critics' Choice Award. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I believe that was last night. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is Apple's first award for any of their TV+ things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was their only nomination that they received and Crudup took home the gong, which is great, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:22:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think he deserves it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a really, I saw Carolina Milanese on Twitter yesterday. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Completely agreed with her. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it's wild to watch a character who at one moment you absolutely hate and then the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     next moment you're completely cheering for like just moment to moment. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, it is legitimately great, weird performance, a weird character. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He's so slimy at the beginning and you're like, Whoa, who is this guy? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then you see him do things where you're like, Oh, I kind of like what this guy did. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Wait a second. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is the really creepy slimy guy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's just like, it's fascinating. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He is fascinating to watch in that show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So deserved, I think. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I think so too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Apple will be presenting at the TV Critics Association Press Tour on January 19th. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Here we are. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:23:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We talked about this last summer. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is the Death March with cocktails as dubbed by my TV Talk Machine pal, now retired TV 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     critic, Tim Goodman, where all the TV writers come and for like two weeks, there's a summer 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and a winter press tour and the networks and the streamers and everybody else will do the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     cable and broadcast and streaming. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They will do days where they bring in the shows that are launching or coming back and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the writers and the cast and there are panel interviews and there's cocktail receptions 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and set visits and it's this whole dog and pony show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the idea here is you're doling out information and getting the media to pay attention to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the stuff that you want to shine a PR spotlight on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And our question was, would Apple come down off the mountaintop and go to the Death March? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And here's your answer. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Winter press tour, they're going to be there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yep, which is I think the way that I know I fell in the sub, that we agreed on this is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they would get into this because there are things in this industry, they can try 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to avoid them as much as they want, but they need to try and be involved. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If they want to take the awards, they also have to play the game. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And this is part of the game. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's schmoozing of all sorts, but it is definitely, I think, primarily a PR rollout 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     setting where they can get like, and if you're a TV writer, not just 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     necessarily a critic, but a writer in general, you do, you load up your notebook with stuff 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and like you, so you listen to the producers of some show that's launching in April, talk 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about their motivation and what they're planning and all of that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you put that in the notebook and some people might write stories about it or live 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     tweeted at the time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But what happens is then April comes around and you're writing your story about that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     show and now you've seen it and all of that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you empty out your notebook and you say, oh, well, I talked to this person and that's 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     all coming from the press tour. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That so there's, it's a big kind of concerted between the TV critics and the networks to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     get their, like this PR thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then they all go back to wherever they're from and they've been downloaded with the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     marketing spin of the networks. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And news breaks here and they announce casting and they announce renewals and there's all 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sorts of other stuff that happens here. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it will be fascinating to see what level, that's the next question, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     What level will Apple disclose? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Will Apple play this game like everyone else or will Apple be more reluctant because Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     as a company, if not their TV division so much, but as a company has that kind of culture. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I guess we'll see how open they are. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Do they feel like HBO? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They seem to be playing the HBO song, like literally HBO stopped playing that song and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're like, we will play that song now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So maybe we'll also hire your player guy on stage with everybody. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, who knows? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Funnily, maybe it's interesting, they're the only company named on this day. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's January 19th. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:26:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So in the kind of schedule. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's not surprising. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's a lot of times there's like a company will take a day, sometimes more than one day 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to do their events. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like there's Apple day and people will come and Apple will have a whole thing and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they'll serve people lunch probably and they'll do their whole dog and pony show and they'll, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it'll be interesting to see what they're promoting too because as we talked about, there's the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     stuff we know that is probably not coming back to the fall. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So will they talk about the morning show or for all mankind or will that be like completely 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     off the table and they're going to be talking about whatever their next wave of programming 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is that's this spring. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Interesting. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     In theory, it will be stuff that we don't know about because by then they won't have 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a lot left on the slate to talk about that's actually we know about dates for. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:26:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So we might find out stuff like Amazing Stories, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like when is that coming? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because this is a winter press tour, so they'll have a summer press tour presumably in August. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it really is sort of like what is on their agenda between now and July, August. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oprah pulls out of the documentary focused on sexual assault that we spoke about last 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:27:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     She was the executive producer on the project, but in a statement given to the Hollywood 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     reporter, she says that she's decided to pull out and therefore cancel the agreement to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     air this on Apple TV Plus. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is a quote from Oprah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     First and foremost, I want it to be known that I unequivocally believe and support the 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:27:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Their stories is said to be told and heard. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     In my opinion, there is more work to be done. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's become clear, though, that the filmmakers and I are not aligned in that creative vision. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So something happened with the kind of the way that this movie documentary was coming 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     together to the point that Oprah decided to pull out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think it's going to be very interesting when this movie eventually does come out to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     see why, like what happened. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think it will be pretty obvious. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So this was focusing on an executive in the music industry who has been accused of sexual 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:28:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that was going to be the documentary was going to be about following the victims. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But now Oprah is pulled out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So again, one of these things where the story sort of reflects on Apple, even though it's 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sort of been put down a layer by having it be Oprah and the creative differences. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's classic Hollywood statement. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And who knows what it means? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it does mean that she's basically said, I'm out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that means Apple is also out of this documentary. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Apple released a trailer for Mythic Quest. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This was the video game company comedy show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This trailer looks great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it is a it looks like a lot of fun. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's more of what I wanted from this and less of what I expected it to be. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I expected it to just be like a you know, because we were super strange about like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     why is Ubisoft involved in this? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it seems super weird, but it looks pretty funny. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it looks like they do maybe touch a little bit on some of the difficulties of working 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in video game development. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like that's even in the trailer, there's references to like working all night and that kind of 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:29:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm very intrigued about this now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think it's going to be pretty I have high hopes now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's got a I was going to say a Silicon Valley kind of vibe, but I actually think it has 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a little bit more of a Veep kind of vibe the the trailer. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But that's not to say that again, Apple is trying to be HBO, but it's got that kind of 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:29:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I think it looks like a lot of fun. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like there's it seems like it's got a great cast and it's got an interesting feel to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm intrigued to see if that like it joins over to the show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like does it does it marry up? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But yeah, it looks great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And finally, the Apple TV app is coming to LG, Sony and Vizio TVs this year. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So currently at the moment, the Apple TV app itself exists on Samsung TVs and then other 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     TVs have AirPlay 2 functionality. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But Apple did reference that other manufacturers would also be getting the smart TV app. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And by the end of the year, this is all announced of a CES, LG, Sony and Vizio TVs will be getting 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:30:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you have one of these TVs, each manufacturer has like different cut off times as to what 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     TVs will get it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But this is a continuation of Apple rolling out their content to as many places as they 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     can possibly put it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, yeah, it continues. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is the answer to the question is loud and clear. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Apple wants the TV app to be everywhere. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Should we talk about so what kind of on this topic list? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Let's move over a little bit and talk about services in general. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We spent obviously a lot of time talking about services over the last couple of years because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Apple's been focusing on it a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But they put out a press release on New Year's Day celebrating their successes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Was it New Year's Day? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     No, it's just like last week. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:30:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they basically said, we have a quote, App Store customers, so this is people in the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     App Store, spent a record of $1.42 billion between Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is a 16% increase. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the biggest day, I think, was $386 million on New Year's Day, which is a 20% increase. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So they kind of also use this press release as a wrap up of kind of where Apple are with 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     services right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just like promotion for all the stuff that they're doing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you look at these numbers and you can it's just more evidence of why exactly Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is pushing the way that they have been into services. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They are able to make more and more and more money without selling a proportional amount 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:31:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     These numbers, if you look at how many iPhones were sold in 2019, if you just looked at that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     number compared to last year, you'd be like, they probably won't make as much money because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're not making as many iPhones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it doesn't count the fact that all of the iPhones existing out there right now can 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     still buy apps, can still sign up for TV+. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They just put like the install base is getting larger and larger. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's what Apple capitalizing on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, it's the I mean, I did a piece last week, which we should probably talk about 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about services and wearables. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you can you can see it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We're in entry 2020. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And three years ago, Apple set itself this goal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They said they wanted to double its services revenue by 2020. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they will blow past that because their services revenue in 2016 was 26 billion. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So double that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's 52, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, in 2019, it was already 46. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So they would actually have to slow severely slow down services growth to not make that 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:32:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's just it's it's an enormous part of their business. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The services and wearables put together back in 2015 was about 15% of their business. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And now it's 30 and going up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, you know, that's gone from being kind of like a nice small part of the Apple business 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to a third almost of the Apple business. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, in that article that you wrote, I like to use you were looking at it and basically 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     said that since going back to 2015, every single quarter there has been a double digit 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     percentage growth over the year over year quarter. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So they are growing massive amounts. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, that's we talk about iPhone slowing down, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you go back to our early shows of upgrade, you can talk about us being amazed at the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     year over year iPhone growth. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that was iPhone was in this explosive growth growth phase, which it's not in anymore. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so it's very profitable, but it's not growing a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you look at services and wearables, by the way, but starting with services, it has 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     been four years now for like five years growing at double digits per quarter year over year, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is that's a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:33:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's my point is it's a lot in 2012. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They made 15 billion on services. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And in 2019, they made 46 billion in services. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That is a lot of growth. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And one of the great things I think for Apple is the fact that services revenue, unlike 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     their products, is not going to be as affected by seasonal changes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So they're likely to make more money over the Christmas period, right, as they sell 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     more iPhones or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But then that those spikes should bring the average higher because people sign up for 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     these multi subscription things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And yeah, you'll get some people canceling every now and then. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if you just sold a bunch more funds, you just bring up the average and then it keeps 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     going like it just keeps growing and growing and growing in theory, as long as they're 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     making people happy and you're paying monthly or quarterly or annually. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or whatever you are for these subscriptions, which means the money just keeps flowing in. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not seasonal at all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, again, they obviously will at some point reach a saturation, but they've probably 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     got quite a way ahead of them, which means, you know, like the iPhone, there will be a 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     point where there has to be something else, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because services will stop growing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you can see they have a lot of opportunity here because there's many ways to kind of 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like, like on this pump, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like you can not only try to convince existing customers and new customers to sign up for 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     whatever service, you can also create more services, which they've obviously been doing, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:35:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like you can give people reasons to sign up for iCloud and they did that, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like you can give people reasons to give you money to get their news, but then you can 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     also create gaming subscription services. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can create television content, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like there are more ways for them to affect this area of this revenue than there was for 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:35:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And look, don't get me wrong. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We were talking about this last week. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're probably trying to do this with the iPhone too, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, you want four or five iPhones? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Let's just do it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Make all the iPhones, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it's a similar kind of model. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You give everyone everything, but it's probably easier to do this with services than it is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for them to just keep making iPhones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, you could buy, everybody is going to use one iPhone. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's very rarely that somebody has the night phone and the day phone, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But services are, I mean, theoretically infinite. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're not because there are only so many that you would want and there's only so much 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     money in your pocket, but you can have more than one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So Apple sells an iPhone to everybody. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Everybody's got an iPhone. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     How many services can they have on it? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They can have more than one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They have two or three or four or five or six. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you might roll your eyes at that because at some point it becomes exhausting. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if Apple offers 15 services and you only want four of them, they still sold you four 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     services, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that's, this is why they're doing it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And my point of my article too was to do a fun chart and also to point out like, this 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is why they talk about services and wearables, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is why. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can see it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I had made the year by year chart before, so that was my new chart of the week basically. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you can see why. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you can be skeptical. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can not like what it says about Apple as a company. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think there's lots of criticism about these strategies that you and I have talked about 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     over the years, but the money, like you cannot argue the numbers. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Look, this is why they're doing it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you know, they're a profit-seeking company. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is why they're doing it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, the wearables part is fun. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the category, right, is called wearables, homes, and accessories, but it's basically 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     all wearables and wearables is two products, AirPods and Apple Watch. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's what's driving this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not HomePod, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it's not silicone cases or whatever else they put in accessories. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     These are the two things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You look at the charts that you put together and it's really interesting to see how there 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     was, you know, kind of in like, there was a nice little bump, right, that happened with 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the Apple Watch. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They sold a bunch of Apple Watches and then it was relatively flat, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it wasn't really doing a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then in 2017, this category exploded, which is probably AirPods, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I would look at this, this growth and it's like, oh yeah, that's AirPods. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, yeah, you have so many people that want to buy these products that already own your 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     iPhones and they become this fashion thing and a meme thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it just went wild. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think the, I think you can't undersell the Apple Watch because the Apple Watch, the Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Watch, no, I mean, I think it's more than that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think in 2015, which was really the first year of the Apple Watch, they showed four 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     straight quarters. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was like 49, 61, 62 and 30 percent growth year over year. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That is everybody buying an Apple Watch Series 1. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Year 2, that was something that was hard to live up to, that first initial, the initial 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     spike of a brand new product. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so they had three quarters in a row where that category went down year over year because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you had to do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But since then, that category has grown way faster than services has. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's been, you know, in the more than 20 percent growth year over year every quarter, all but 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     one have been more than 30 percent and the last two have been both around 50 percent 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     growth year over year. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think it's both the continued momentum of the Apple Watch and AirPods. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think together, I think it really is a one-two punch. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think they're both because Apple Watch, they don't disclose sales figures, so we have 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:39:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it seems like Apple Watch had a huge spike. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They tailed off a little bit and they have been killing it since then on Apple Watch 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:39:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you take Tim Cook at his word and occasionally he throws out a superlative of like, oh, this 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is our best and whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I think the Apple Watch is a big part of this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I think you're right that AirPods is a huge driver as well. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And this is why so as much as we talk about services, this is why if I'm Apple, I am, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, very highly prioritizing any other wearable product, not only in the long term 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with that, you know, they're supposedly working on air glasses and all that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But this is the search through the couch cushions. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, what else can we do? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, do we want to do in-ear AirPods with noise canceling? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:39:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Are there other like this is why I think that it that they absolutely will make over-ear 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     AirPod headphones, headphones, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because how could you not? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     How could you not? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was I was really sure that they were going to do this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Look at how successful the AirPods have been. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If I'm in charge of AirPods, you just like like I said, until they usher me out because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't work at Apple, I'm like, what other things can we AirPod? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, do them all, do them all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's all wildly successful. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Keep doing that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'd start to believe that all because we haven't seen them yet. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They probably won't do them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But now I'm back in the camp of, yeah, they're going to do it because they're silly not 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:40:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Why would you not just do it? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, just do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:40:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like even if they're essentially Beats headphones, except with a slightly different sound profile 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they're white, like still and more expensive because it's Apple. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:40:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, they don't care about Beats and like they don't care about Beats in that way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like they have because Beats just takes the technology and makes their version, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then they make an AirPods version. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And Beats is a brand that has an audience. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Apple is a brand that has an audience and there are people who will buy Apple over-ear 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     headphones that would never buy Beats over-ear headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's just I know that that doesn't make sense. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:40:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And vice versa. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:40:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We are back on that train here. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like they're going to, at least I am, head pods. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So over-ear headphones with, I don't know, like better, more kind of encompassing now 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     noise cancellation. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it doesn't matter what the features are, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just make it because then you can make more millions and millions and millions of dollars 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from people. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     AirPods Max. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     AirPods Max. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just massive. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I like this quote as well from your article that in 2015, these two categories combined 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with 16% of Apple's total business in the last quarter, it was 30% and continuing to 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:41:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, you know, like we could be 2022, 2023, maybe a few more years. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     50% of the business could be this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't believe it'll, it's going to take a long time for it to get there. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:41:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I think that we are definitely about to enter a period where a third of Apple's business 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is services and wearables. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:41:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, it depends where they're going, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I'm still so conflicted about AR glasses, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I really am conflicted about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't, I just don't know if I get it, but if that is a product that they make and it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     makes sense in the way that the Apple watch made sense, like that's just, it's just going 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to continue to pump that line, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I'm not, I'm not convinced about that yet. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I think the jury is, is and should be out on the idea of something to put on my 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     face to connect to my iPhone. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:42:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Apple's next earnings are on January 28th. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm really excited for these ones because I want to see what the iPhone did. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I'm really keen. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I like to talk about all of this stuff now because it sort of sets the stage for what 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     happens in that holiday quarter, which will get reported on January 28th. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     How well did the iPad or the iPhone do in the holiday quarter? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Where are the other businesses now? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And what's the next stage of services and wearables? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And we will, we will hear that in two weeks. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the Apple arcade revenue will begin. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I suppose so. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:42:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So they, they won't, they don't break that out, but they, if it did well, they'll say, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, and Apple arcade exceeded our expectations by, you know, they'll say some superlative 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:43:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's what they do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If they, if they say something superlative, if they have something to say that's superlative, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they will say it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Otherwise they won't. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like Apple news plus also exists, you know, it's a remains a product in our lineup. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:43:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or they'll, or they do that thing where they're like, we are really pleased with Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     news plus, which is great and offers all these things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, okay. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And how's it doing? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
	 00:43:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You didn't say how well it's doing, but okay. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So we'll see. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We'll read the tea leaves, but that's a couple of weeks away. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This episode is brought to you by express VPN. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We know that if VPN can protect your privacy and security online, but it can also help 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you take your content consumption to the next level by unlocking things that could be restricted 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to you in other countries. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or if you're away like me and you want to watch stuff on Netflix in the UK, but you 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     can't, cause it's not on Netflix in the U S you can use express VPN to help you do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You just fire up express VPN, change your location to where you want it to be refresh 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:43:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that is it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I am also a big fan of the Japanese television. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So terrace house and they drop it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's on Netflix, but they drop it in chunks in the UK, but in Japan, they put every episode 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     up every week. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the last episode of the most recent chunk was a massive cliffhanger that I couldn't 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     wait months for. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I opened express VPN, changed my location to Japan and watch the next episode to satiate 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     my cliffhanger. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that's great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Express VPN, high trip address. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you can control where you want sites to think you're located and you can choose from 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     over a hundred different countries. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So there are hundreds of VPNs out there, but express VPN is ridiculously fast, which you 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     want when you're watching shows, no buffering, no lag, and you can stream in HD express VPN 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is also compatible with all of your devices, phones, media, console, smart TVs, and more. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you can watch what you want wherever you want. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you go to expressvpn.com/upgrade right now, you can get three months extra for free. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's three extra months of express VPN for free. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Bus by going to expressvpn.com/upgrade to support this show, watch what you want and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     protect yourself as well. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     A thanks to express VPN for their support of this show and relay FM. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So Jason, I wanted to check in with you because we spoke in the summer about you upgrading 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     your office, painting the wall orange. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Operation office five. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:45:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There you go. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     How's it been going for you? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, I got good news and bad news. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:45:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The bad news is that, uh, to reference back to your, to an episode from two years ago, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     episode 170, the rat king of cables, it's back. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The rat king of cables has been, has grown, has regrown because over two years, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you got a cable, you put it somewhere and that's how it starts. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm, I'm speaking to you now from a room that has a lot of, uh, I, I've begun the process 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of kind of upturning all of these boxes that have cables in them and then going through 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the cables one by one and putting them in the USB pile and the HTMI pile and the ethernet 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     pile and all of that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that then I can organize them, reorganize them and try to find, you know, get them back 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in their place. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Cause I had a moment where I needed a particular USB cable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, and I couldn't find one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was like, Hmm, this is not great cause you know, then it's searched through the rat king 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of cables or just buy a new one on Amazon. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's so sad to do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I like, I know I have this cable, but I can't find it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm just going to buy another one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's a bad idea. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm, I'm, I've reached that step now where I I'm trying to pull all this stuff out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I found a bunch of old stuff in a box. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I literally had a box that I filled with stuff from my desk at IDG five years ago, brought 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     home and never opened, um, that I opened last week. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I found a lot of really great old stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was sending a bunch of pictures to Steven Hackett of like, you get a load of this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Look at these two newtons that I have. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Look at this BOS CD-ROM that I've got, uh, all sorts of just wild old stuff that's in 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:46:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, but I have to figure out like what of that is salvageable and what of that should I dump? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I I'm, I'm in the de-cluttering process. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's also a lot of stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The garage is also our sort of storage room for the rest of the house. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So there's a bunch of stuff that needs to go to the, um, the Goodwill or, or to the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     dump depending, or the electronics recycling. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm, I'm in midstream on that, which means that my office is much messier than I would 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like, but, um, I, I have made a bunch of changes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, I mentioned on this show as part of our ongoing conversation with ATP about lighting 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and Marco's many, many lights that he has that I was feeling it that on a, on particular 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     dark winter days, it's not sunny today, so it's great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But on dark winter days and nights, um, that my one floor lamp in here is not quite enough. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, and I was debating what to do, get another floor lamp, um, get some, some other lamp 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that I could like shoot onto the wall so that the orange wall is sort of lit up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That would be nice. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I ended up, um, and I think I like it and I think I'm going to keep it is I had a 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hue light strip, a Phillips hue light strip, the little, um, led strip lighting. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, and I put it on the frame of my window, so it's like shining up toward the ceiling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and also against the wall. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And this is the, my wall that I painted orange and I kind of liked it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I left it there for a while and I kind of liked it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I bought, um, some extensions of that and now it's on the top and the bottom of that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     window frame. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just stuck on the, on the window frame and that's pretty good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I don't think, and it means I don't have a floor lamp, um, cluttering that part of my 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     office that I have to keep moving out of the way to go anywhere. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just attached on the wall. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I think I'm going to go with that and that gives me that extra little kind of hit 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of, uh, of light, especially in, in dark times when I need a little bit more brightness. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, and it shows off that orange wall, which makes me happy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, and that's a smart thing so I can put it on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've got a smart switch at the doorway that is actually a smart light switch that's actually 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     turning on my floor lamp, which is plugged into one of those little smart outlets. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so now I have it wired up so that I can turn that on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I can turn on the, the, uh, the hue lights on the wall. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, so, you know, I, I'm doing that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have some video lights that I use when I'm doing, you know, when I'm shooting videos 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or doing live stream of, of something. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then I, I'm actually ordered some more mounts to mount more of them up on the ceiling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because the great thing about having those lights on the ceiling is that they're not 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     somewhere else on the floor. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like they're out of the way, there's no tripod, there's no, you know, there's none of that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And, and it's a great place to store those lights. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then I can just either on smart switches so I can just turn them on whenever I am recording. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm doing a bunch of that kind of stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And, uh, like John Syracuse, I prepared the way, um, but I'm not getting a Mac pro. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just bought a new, um, uninterruptible power supply because after the power outages this 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     fall and also hearing John and Steven Hackett talking about getting these like tower UPS, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they look like a tower computer almost. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And all my UPS is I've got two are like big fat, thick power strips. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I thought, Oh, actually that is exactly what I, what I want and need for this right 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where my computer's plugged in. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I haven't, I have one of those now to a big UPS. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the best thing about it is that it's got a silence button on it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So when the power goes out and I need to use it in order for my lamp to work, I won't have 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     beeping coming to me endlessly from the garage like I did in October. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     These UPS is like, I get it, but I don't know if I want this like massive thing, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like a big computer sitting under my desk. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It seems like so much. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, mine is sitting against the wall. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:50:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not under my desk and I've got, I've got a whole, that's another thing I did is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've got a bunch of cable organization that I've been doing where I've got, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm trying to tie the cables together and reduce the number. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I actually bought a new, like a USB three hub so that I can extend, I can run one USB 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     cable down off the desk and then have a bunch of stuff plugged in, kind of stuck under the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     desk, including the one that runs to the, to the UPS so that it can talk to the UPS. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And and then it extends. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've got a little thing that goes all the way toward the wall and then there is where 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:51:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't see it, but this new, this UPS is tall and not wide like the other one is. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's actually kind of less intrusive and you know, if your power goes out, your computer 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doesn't die, which is nice. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I had the cyber power, um, CP 1500 PF CLCD. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     CP 1500 CP F let's see. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:51:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Look at that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Look at that thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:51:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It seems like so much. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     How much, how, how long would, do you know how long your computer would last plugged 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     into this thing? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We can find out, but not right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     No, I don't want you to do it right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, it turns out only 20 seconds. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:51:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you have it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, cause I never really understood how this works, but you have it set up or do you 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have it set up that it can talk to Mac OS? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:51:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So people don't know this, I think, but, uh, these UPS has have USB on them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, and they often come with like windows software and some of them have Mac downloads, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I'm always very skeptical. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You don't actually need software, special software on the Mac for these things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you plug them in via USB and go to the energy saver pain in system preferences, there's 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a UPS thing and you can configure it to like, you know, your Mac knows when it's on UPS, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     knows what the battery status of the UPS is. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, like a laptop battery. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's aware of all of that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you can say, you know, after five minutes on the UPS shut down, or if the UPS only has 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     five minutes left shut down, or if the UPS reaches 10% of its battery shut down, you 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     can, you can do all of that stuff from right within system preferences. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You don't need any special software to do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, it looks really cool. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That kind of stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I see I want, I wanted to hear all of this from you today because I'm in just like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm in such office limbo right now, Jason, because I want to do so much stuff that I 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     want to do to my office, but also at the same time, I want an office outside of my home, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is like a whole of a big thing that I'm looking at because we live in a two bedroom 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     apartment and you know, if, if our life goes the way that we want over the next few years, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I need to give that room up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I can't, and so like, I'm in this real limbo, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like what to do? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We don't have another room. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like we don't have a garage. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We live in an apartment. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like I am looking kind of for an office outside of home, which is like, it's holding 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     me back from making too many significant changes to my home office. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I don't want to redo the whole thing and then rip it all out again. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But there are, there are little things that I can do that I can also take with me, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like if, if I get an office outside of my home, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like if I buy a UPS, I can still take that with me. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:53:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But yeah, so I, I'm in a little bit of limbo myself right now, which is just like the worst. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a challenge. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you, and you've got to think about the expenses of, of an office versus the expenses 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and inconvenience of doing something like selling your place and buying a place with 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     another room, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Which you could do, but is incredibly inconvenient, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That is obviously something that we will want to do at some point in our lives, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But we don't, we don't want to even think about moving for like another two or three 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:54:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you're in limbo. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We have like a, like a mortgage is in a contract, like a fixed term contract. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you don't want to break it because then you'd lose your breaks, all that kind of nuts. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I recommend that you just, uh, you know, go work in a big glass cube. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Bad for audio. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:54:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Big glass cubes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Little bit, little bit, little bit bad, bad for audio. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That is true. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You got to worry about the audio, uh, because that's your job. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like the problem I've had is like trying to find office space where we live is very, very 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     difficult because I, I have also have like particular needs. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I can't work in a shared office, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I can find a desk in a shared office super easy, but cannot find private offices 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     very easily. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I had a friend who ended up working, there was a law firm that had rented out a building 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they had extra offices and he ended up working there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He basically sublet an office inside this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it was like before there was WeWork, there was, Hey, we have an extra office. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Does somebody want to use this? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you know, that's, uh, you know, I don't know if that would be your best bet or, or 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     not to just see how do you find them? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And like I found an office and that, and I've, I've even gone to see it and thought it was 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     really great, but the letting company is not responding to my emails. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, I want to lease this office. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Will you please let me lease this office? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they're just like ignoring me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, I don't understand what's happening. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I want to give you the money that you're looking for. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's very, it's very confusing to me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Uh, but that's, I'm, you know, that's kind of where I am right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I had this whole plan of like, Oh, doing a bunch of stuff to redo the office, but now 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm in a little bit of limbo, but there are things that I still want to do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like I spoke about it last time, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I want to, um, make my kind of second desk more of a, uh, fixed iPad writing desk, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:56:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm still looking at stuff like that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm still trying to work that out myself. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I actually want to talk about keyboards in a minute. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, cause that's kind of like a place where I am in my life right now is looking at keyboards. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We've all been at the keyboard part of their life, but I'm also at the same time still 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     looking for just general inspiration as, you know, I've been, we would, again, we spoke 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about this when we were together, I've been working out of that office now for three years 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it was put together in a way that is very different to how it's used now. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:56:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like my initial conception, you built your office just as I built my office sort of speculatively 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     saying, well, what, what, what would I do if I had this office? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then you use it for three, four or five years and you're like, okay, this is not quite 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     what I, you know, I made, I made some guesses and some were right and some were wrong and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's not quite how I work now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then you have to, and that's what my kind of project has been about is making some revision, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like getting a new desk. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Cause like that, that was a, I thought buying that relatively cheap, very small, uh, sit 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     stand desk was a good idea at the time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I guess it was, but having sat at it for five years, it's not the right desk for me. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:57:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you're still happy with the desk that you have? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, I love it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, it's the, cause it's the, it's like the re reclaimed hardwood, uh, desk top and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, this one's got multiple settings so that it remembers like my standing position 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and my sitting position and stuff, which the other one did not. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, it's uh, yeah, it's really nice. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And because of the size that actually I can tuck more stuff underneath the desk. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I can do talking about cable management, like I can attach, I actually, at one point 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have, I've, I've given some thought to, uh, I bought the drive, I bought a Samsung SSD. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've given some thought to, um, putting like Velcroing the drive under the desktop as my 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     backup drive, as my like super duper clone drive. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Although since my iMac is visa mounted, um, I can actually just, there's like a little 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     space in the visa mount where the drive goes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I don't even need to attach it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It just kind of like sits there and it's completely invisible to me and it's just directly attached 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     by USB-C to the, to the iMac. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I, uh, I just stuck my Samsung SSD drive that I use for my time machine, but with Velcro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     onto the back of the, of my iMac Pro. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't care. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's how it lives. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I agree. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I thought about putting stuff under the desk and I do have, like I said, I have a 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hub under there and I bought a metal shelf for my, um, my USB audio interface. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I don't even see it anymore. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's down there and I, it's accessible, but like it's not on my table anymore. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I may do that with a mute switch at some point too, and just like trying to clear some 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of the junk off the desk, but I am, I'm happy with the desk. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have, by the way, I have, um, I have two points of additional follow-up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     One is USB follow-up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I guess this is follow out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's been this, there's a bug happening in Catalina and none of us have been able 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to pin it down. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Casey Liss has talked about it on ATP a little bit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I've seen it too, where something is going on and I think it's USB. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't think it's actually Bluetooth. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think it's USB and I think the Bluetooth is on the USB bus. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That bus headache for dongle town. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     No, that bus is driving away from dongle town and it's on fire. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I bought a, a new DVD drive to use to do like, you know, I, I back up my DVDs and put them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on a Plex server, which is great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Cause then I don't have to fish out the DVD and fish out the Blu-ray to watch something. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I can just kind of like, it's very easy then to put it on my TV using the Apple TV app 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or even side load it to my iPad and take it on a trip, whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I bought a new one of those. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I was at a point where I was ripping a Blu-ray, doing a podcast. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So there's a USB audio interface there and super duper launched and was that new Samsung 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:00:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was doing a clone, a backup to my SSD. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Those are all USB tasks, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And my USB audio interface started cutting out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My track pad started getting jumpy because it wasn't plugged in and then I plugged it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in and it was, it was okay after that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But my Bluetooth mode track pad was getting jumpy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The the ripping procedure on the Blu-ray disc failed. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I thought, what is happening here? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then I stopped the super duper clone and ejected and unplugged the drive and I turned 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     off the Blu-ray drive and I unplugged and replugged the USB audio interface and then 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I didn't have any problems. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I thought to myself, something, there's a bug here somewhere because I did not see 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this before Catalina. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like it got overloaded somehow, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, something is happening where the USB bus is getting overloaded by something. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is unable to prioritize all of these things and it has dropouts and the dropouts can result 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in dropped audio from a USB interface or a drop that leads to a failure from a Blu-ray 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     drive or jittery, potentially it's related to jittery input from keyboards and mice. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think it's all because of that backup that was going on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So this is similar to what Casey has seen. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If somebody from Apple out there who knows about USB stuff, like I'd love to know more 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about this or tell you more about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you know, USB was broken in, what was it, Sierra maybe or Hi Sierra. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There was a release of OS X a few years ago where USB was really broken and we all kind 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of like couldn't move our podcast machines to it because it became really unreliable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it very slowly got more reliable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But something happened with Catalina and it's back to being kind of not reliable, at least 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:02:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that's a real bummer because that kind of like puts back a lot of my ideas about 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     chaining things for USB and doing a local direct super duper backup instead of just 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     using the network. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you know, because I have to not have my USB audio interface for podcasts be unreliable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like, oh, you can't record any podcasts when any other USB devices are attached is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     not a great look. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I have that update. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So Casey, if you're out there, you're not alone. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And my other update is a power outage update since we're talking about my office and so 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's what this segment is about. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:02:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I can understand now a little bit more. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've forgotten about the rolling power out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's one of the reasons you probably are thinking so much about UPS and are maybe a 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     little bit more sensitive to it because you've lived the life of multiple days. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We had the three day outage and the UPS isn't going to protect you from a three day outage, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it will at least give you a little bit of battery to finish. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it just at least will make you, this whole thing will make you think about power a little 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:03:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Right, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So after the outages, we looked into doing rooftop solar with a battery backup because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with that on a sunny day, you could basically, the power could go out for a few days and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you could still have power in your house, which would be great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you also have other additional benefits for that, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like your power bill will get cheaper. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:03:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You'll be using more renewable energy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like there are lots of benefits for solar. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, but losing power for three days was the impetus to be like, okay, we should really 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:03:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then I looked into it and it turns out we have a, you know, please do not send advice. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     By the way, I'll just say that now because I know I'm going to get advice from people 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who don't know all the details about this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But here's the thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have a 20 plus year old roof, which doesn't leak, which is great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     However, technically that roof is getting toward the end of its life. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And everybody I talked to about solar said, well, you really have to replace the roof 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you're going to do solar because otherwise the roof's going to fail and you're going 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to have to de-install all of your panels and then reinstall them on the new roof. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's no good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So we really advise that, you know, you need a relatively recent roof. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Start with a fresh roof. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:04:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So because the damage is way worse if you have panels on top. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So guess what? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That takes a project that was already really going to be expensive when we got a child 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in college and another one going to college soon and said, take that number that you were 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     already wincing at and thinking you might not be able to afford, but you could probably 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     grit your way through it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Now add $20,000 to it at least. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And at that point I was like, no, I'm not going to do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the rooftop solar is off. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Maybe after I have to replace my roof, I'll think about it again. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I had a moment where I thought, okay, it's inconvenient not to have power for a 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:04:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But when I think about a project that would cost, I mean, a lot, let's just say a lot 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of money all told versus finding ways to make the pain of an occasional outage less painful 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then just rebuying the groceries that spoiled in the refrigerator. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, I can't really justify it that way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like there are reasons to get solar. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But in the end, because of our particular circumstance, I just don't think we can afford 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the scale of it, having to replace the roof and then do solar and then get the battery. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:05:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the moment I made that decision of like, we're not going to do that and that all that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     money that we were going to spend is not being spent. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was like, oh, I can spend a small amount of money on a few things to make life a little 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     easier if we do get an outage. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the first thing I did was I actually bought this thing called a power bank, which is like 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a giant UPS. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I bought one from Goal Zero. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I bought the Yeti 1000. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You plug it in and it's a giant battery and it charges. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then when the power goes out, you can use it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can't like run a giant appliance on it, but there are certain things in our house 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that we could run off of this thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they also sell a solar panel that charges it in like 20 hours or something like that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it would be, and I'll explore it because you can get a second panel for it and then 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     charge it faster and all of that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm going to buy that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just bought that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So we'll have more power available to us in a giant battery to get us through like at 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a very low level with some of the stuff in our house. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's a start. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I'll look into some other stuff too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not sure I really want to buy a gas generator because for lots of reasons like having to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have a gas can and oil and it's noisy and smelly and like I'd rather not go down that 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:07:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But anyway, all that stuff is kind of back open just because I'm not going to spend 50 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or $60,000 at least on a solar project because I don't have that money to spend. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not going to do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So instead I just bought a giant battery. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So a lot of batteries come into my house, Myke. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Lots of batteries. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     All the great batteries. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Can we talk about keyboards? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Let's do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There comes a time in every person's life when they must make the walk of the travel. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:07:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The travel to the keyboards. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The listen to the Cortex, the Cortex and Stay got to me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it just started as like a couple of questions through Ask Cortex and then some follow up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     was sent to me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Now I am like deep into mechanical keyboard land. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I currently own two mechanical keyboards. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I own a WASD keyboard, which I really like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was the first one that I bought and I learned a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I learned that what switch I like, I like Cherry Brown switches because they still 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     got some clickiness, but it's not a lot of force. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like the least amount of force to apply. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it doesn't really cause me any strain in my hands, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because like, you know, you can really go for it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And plus I don't want it to be too loud. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just like a little noise. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I liked the WASD keyboard because you could basically customize every single key to be 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the color that you wanted. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I got like some wild colors, but I bought a keyboard without arrow keys. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I wasn't really paying attention. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I didn't really think about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I hate that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I love the keyboard and it's possible to use arrow key that you can hold down a little 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     function key and use, I think it's like the I, J, K and L, I think. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's like instead of the arrow keys, like on the keyboard, which is fine, but it just 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doesn't work properly for me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I do love that keyboard. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Then I bought an Ergodex keyboard, which is a split mechanical keyboard. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that splits in half, which is like the keyboard that I use on my Mac all the time, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is the Microsoft Sculpt, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it has the split in the middle, which is, it feels good to me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the Ergodex keyboard is really nice, but I'm really trying to get used to it because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a lot of the keys are unprinted and you are supposed to assign, you could use like this 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     web tool and then you have to like plug it into your computer and like you flash the 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:09:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You assign what you want the keys to do, which is fine because you can kind of customize 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it the way that you want, but I can then not remember all the keys do, which is a problem 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:09:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And there's ways to fix that, like buying different key caps, right, to replace the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     blank keys, which is good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But then I'm into the key cap world, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Where now I'm like, where do you buy key caps? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I see a lot of key caps that I really like the look of, but then there are these 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like group buy things and it's like they're just sold out or it's like you'll wait for 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like six months. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like a whole thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then you, and then I asked you what keyboard you're using and you're using the Keychron 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:10:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And now I'm looking at those and they look really interesting and they have a Kickstarter 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     campaign coming up for another new one that they're making. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I am like deep into this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Mechanical keyboards are just like a great thing to follow on Instagram. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I follow a ton of just like these companies making tiny keyboards and little key caps. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just like beautiful. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's somebody, the reason that this got to me is someone said, this is probably would 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     satiate Myke in the way that pens does. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's very similar to like the type of pens that I buy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can get exactly what you want and you can have them made in certain ways and they're 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     all nice and colorful in the ways that you want. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's where I am. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
 
	 01:10:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I've been there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've been where you are. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The like part of the exploration is figuring out what you like and what you don't like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like I got a WASD keyboard and because they do let you order custom key cap sets. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can order your keyboard with custom key caps, but you can also just like get custom 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     printed key caps and they are good and they have like a, you can build your own key layout 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in Illustrator and then put it in there and they will print them out and they will send 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     them to you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that you can spend a lot of money on that stuff and that's fun. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Although what I learned is that the keyboard from them that I bought, it's got the, it's 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     got, it's wider because it's got the arrow keys and like the home and end keys and they're 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     off to the side. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And this is why I say it's important to learn what you like because I've learned I don't 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:11:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I want a much narrower keyboard than that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I don't use that keyboard at all essentially at this point, but I do use that, the keyboards 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that I told you about and actually, you know, I've been using a couple of them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The Keychron K2, I think. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And there's another one that I've been using that's very similar and you know, so that's 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     your first step, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Is like you said, oh, this little keyboard is really great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then you got it and you're like, oh, there's no arrow keys. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I've had people send me keyboards and they're like, this looks great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You'll love this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I look at it and like, no arrow keys, deal breaker. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they're like, but you can use a modifier key. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, nope, nope. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have learned this about myself that I am not there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you're getting there, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Part of this journey for you is learning what not to do with your keyboard. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Do you have anything else you've learned from that journey or do we just know about the 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:12:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The arrow keys is the main thing that I've learned. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My love of RGB remains. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:12:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just think it's amazing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I love to just have my keyboard lit up in a bunch of weird and wild colors and ErgoDEX 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:12:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I just, it's just fun. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just like the fun of it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like to look down at my keyboard, sometimes it's like, there's a rainbow there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, oh, how lovely. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:12:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I like that kind of thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I've, I've also learned that like, this is, it's like just this fun little thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Cause I can end up, I really, ultimately what I want to do is, is build a keyboard. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Cause like you can really go with this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think that would be a fun thing to aim towards one day, like getting all the parts 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and building one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that it's like a whole different thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:13:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But, uh, I'm, I am enjoying going down this rabbit hole. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm basically saying this like upgradience. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you have things that you think I should be looking at in the custom keyboard world, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the mechanical keyboard world, please tweet them at me because I would like to see them. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:13:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, so the other keyboard that I like is the Vortex Race 3, which I wrote about, um, which 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:13:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's got, I think real cherry switches, whereas the, um, Keychron is, uh, Gateron. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're like knock off cherry switches. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They don't feel quite as good, but they're good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My other recommendation. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So WASD is great because you can get them to make anything for you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, I recommend, uh, Reddit, the mechanical keyboard subreddit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, there's stuff in there that is good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I recommend, um, Massdrop mechanical keyboards. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's one of the group buy things, but there are key sets that come up on there that are 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     really great if they match the keyboard that you're using. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I think I keep an eye on that and I've ordered a couple of things from Massdrop, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     uh, in mechanical keyboards. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, eBay, believe it or not, there's a lot of mechanical keyboard stuff on eBay. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've been trying to find it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's a really good store on eBay, but I can't find its name right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, that, that sells a bunch of different, um, keyboard layout stuff and their, their 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     storefront is on eBay, but I can't find their name right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if you search for, uh, whatever kind of things you're looking for, you will find a 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     lot of key caps and stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you search for... 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I found a lot on Etsy as well. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:14:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just, I didn't buy anything, but I was just like poking around. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Especially if you're looking for custom key caps. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, there are a lot of custom key caps on, uh, on eBay. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And uh, and then yeah, Instagram, uh, as, as mentioned by Joe Steele in the chat room, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     uh, there are a bunch of keyboard companies that are on Instagram. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you can follow Pimp My Keyboard, which I've ordered from and Joe linked to Originativ 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Co on, um, on, uh, Instagram. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So there's, there's a bunch you can fall down deep, deep, deep down that rabbit hole if 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you want to. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I, I am not looking for keyboards right now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've got two really good keyboards that basically, um, that I love. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I will probably at some point here, feel that pull of like, could I get another color set 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and replace the key caps because that's fun. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, I think I, I, I, um, was writing on my iPad this week with the Vortex Race 3, which 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is why I actually couldn't find that, that cord. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was trying to find like my USB-C to micro USB to hook this because it's not a Bluetooth 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:15:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just a wired keyboard and I couldn't find one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I, I finally found an adapter and I use that instead. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It feels great though. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a really great keyboard and it looks great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Um, but, and I like its key caps better than the, the ones on the, the Keychron, which 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of course immediately makes me think maybe I could get new key caps for the Keychron 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then it's like, man, don't do that to yourself, but maybe we'll see. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, I'm just looking at loads of stuff now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I really like this is all for me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is all Joshua Topolsky's fault because he tweeted out a picture of this micro keyboard 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that he had with this amazing, weird, yellowy old school layout and I was like, what is 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:16:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And he said, here's the rabbit hole. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:16:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That was the end for me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That was, that was, the result is that I got a keyboard that I really like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you know, it's, it's not bad. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:16:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Today's show is also brought to you by Booz Allen. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Modern, modernizing for the future is a challenge, especially for large organizations. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:47
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     ► 
     You may need to integrate legacy systems with new technology. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You may need to incorporate AI and analytics to work more efficiently and make fast decisions. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And everyone needs new ways of thinking to move to what's next, whether for government 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or commercial goals. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Booz Allen understands and they're helping some of the world's largest organizations 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:03
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     to modernize. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They understand the missions of government and industry and they need, and they need 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to adapt to constant change. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They provide open source solutions so clients can integrate innovation from anywhere, whether 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:14
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     from visionary startups or major contractors. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Plus they're helping clients power new technologies with analytics because security is everybody's 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:17:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're helping to integrate their capabilities of intelligence grade cybersecurity. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     With Booz Allen integration means putting you in control of innovation. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Integrate innovate, get it done with Booz Allen. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Learn more at Booz Allen dot com slash relay. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That is Booz Allen dot com slash relay. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We want to thank them for their support of the show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Should we do some hashtag ask upgrade questions? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Let's do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Is that the lasers just shut out the letters on the Hollywood sign. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 01:17:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It looks terrible over there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Greg asks, how do you sync your audio when you both record separately? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've been thinking about doing a podcast of a friend, but wondering how you sync the show 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     up for easy editing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     First off, first and foremost, episode 200 of upgrade, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:18:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's the index, like a little footnote there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Always listen to that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We talk in detail about how we do podcasts, but I'll give you the short version, which 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is both of you record your end, but one of you ideally is recording your end and maybe 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     both of you and the person on the other end on a separate file or a separate track. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the easiest way to do this is to use Skype call recorder from Ecamm software with Skype. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Easiest way to do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can use audio hijack. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There are lots of other tools. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Skype call recorder will record your voice and the other person's voice on separate tracks. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can export them later. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's great because if you're recording your voice and the other person's voice at 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the same time, you can lay those down in your editing, you know, in garage band or logic 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or fair ride or wherever you want. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then you get your friend's file and you line your friend's file up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's exactly making the sounds at exactly the same time as the one that you recorded 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on your computer. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can visibly see it and then you've got that reference. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the reference track, whether it's just one person or multiple people, the reference 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     track is the most important thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can do a three to one clap kind of thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I don't think you need to. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the other tip I'll use is when you're lining up tracks to get them to match. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you don't have a reference track, people start recording at all sorts of times, but 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they tend to all end recording at the same time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So line up the end, not the beginning, but that's the way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then there are syncs you can do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And if there's drift in the recording where they're lined up at the beginning and then 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     by the end, they're off by a little bit, you just kind of snip and slide it a little bit 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     halfway through and get it to be close. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But the short version is just have a reference track and line up your files to that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And my additional tip is don't just line it up once because it's called audio drift. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the audio can get out of sync again later on, depending on how long you record. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So keep the Skype reference track in your audio project. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And as you're editing through, make sure that it's continuing to match, you might need to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     adjust it a little bit here. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is something that you and I do differently. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't keep the track in there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But what I do is after I lined it up at the beginning, I go to the end and hear if it's 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:20:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And if it's not lined up, what I'll do is I'll go through maybe every 15 or 30 minutes, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'll split the clip and line it back up, and then move ahead and then split it again and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     line it back up and deal with the drift that way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But once I've got it where I feel like everybody's matching the reference track, I delete the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     reference track because I don't want to deal with it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I don't want to account for it. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:20:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The reason I keep the reference track is in case I mess up something in the edit and get 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it out sync myself, which I have done many times. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then that keeps it in there so I can then get it back into sync again, but it doesn't 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:20:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     However you edit it, edit it your way, but that's the way that you do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's the way that we make sure that we line things up is that we keep the reference track. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Plus it's good to have in case something goes wrong with somebody's audio. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then you also, I mean, you have Skype recording. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Gary wants to know what was your top song from 2019 in your Apple Music replay? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Okay, so I went and looked at this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And my number one song was a song called "My Honest Face" by Inhaler, which is a fun song. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:21:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I sent it to a bunch of my friends who like U2. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like John, Syracuse and Merlin. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I said, Whoa, these guys sound like they've listened to those early U2 albums as much 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:21:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Only yesterday in preparation for this podcast did I look up who Inhaler is and was amused 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to know that this band that sounds a lot like early U2, their lead singer is Bono's son. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm sure he's heard a lot of U2 and sounds a lot like Bono because it's Bono's son. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I had no idea. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if you like, you know, Boy and War and the early U2, check out "My Honest Face" by 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:21:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is like a tribute to early U2. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It sounds great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Jason, that's hilarious. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I had no idea. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Now my number two in the list was "Bags" by Clara, which is actually my favorite song 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:22:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But she didn't make it to number one for some reason because I guess I played that song 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "My Honest Face" a lot too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My favorite song is "Overnight" by Maggie Rogers, which I mean, this song was my number 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     one but like my top 10 songs of the year is just full of Maggie Rogers. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like her album is just incredible. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just unbelievable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have a Maggie Rogers story here, which is also really funny that I just realized on 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:22:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So on Friday, I was listening because I keep playlists of like my favorite songs of the 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:22:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And Friday, I was listening to "Love You for a Long Time" by Maggie Rogers. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I thought, I really love this song. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I need to look up Maggie Rogers and see what other stuff she's got because maybe I should 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     listen to other stuff from her. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I found first off one of my favorite things that happens in the streaming music era, where 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm picking up songs here and there just based on their appearances and various playlists 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is I discover later, not that they're related to somebody from U2, although sometimes that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     happens, but I discover later that I've actually liked several of this person's songs, but 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     didn't know it was the same person. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's always a great sign. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like after the fact, it's like, "Oh, this person's music really works for you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You should explore them further." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's happened to a bunch of artists. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I found with Maggie Rogers that in addition to "Love You for a Long Time," she had the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     song "Light On," which was also in the playlist because I really liked that song, at which 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     point I finally read up on her history and discovered that viral video where she plays 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     her song "Alaska" for Pharrell Williams and he starts to cry because it's so good and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he has nothing to teach her about being a musician other than keep doing what you're 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doing, which was really great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I've added her album now to my library and I'm going to listen to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So she's great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The album that she put out, I think it was last year, it was at the very end of 2018, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but "Heard It in a Past Life" is just absolutely wall-to-wall incredible. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like if you have not listened to that album, you should listen to that album because it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is absolutely fantastic. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a great example too of somebody she was born, she grew up in rural, like tidal Maryland 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and spent a lot of her formative life with, she was born in 1994, she's pretty young, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     around folk music and she was like a banjo player. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then she comes to NYU and is in their creative arts program, basically their music 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     program, the Clive Davis School. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you can hear her folk music background in her music, but it's modern music. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     She is synthesizing this classic kind of folk music and then taking it to a completely different 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     place, which is what makes somebody a great musical artist. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So yeah, it was great that I saw her in your list here because I just was digging in on 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     her on Friday because I like her a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My other, like the top list is also dominated by Vampire Weekend's most recent album, which 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I absolutely loved. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It features Danielle, I think it's Danielle Heim from the band Heim, who's also one of 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     my favorite, like she's on like three or four of the songs. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I didn't know that, I'll have to check that out because I like Heim. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That album is like, it's an absolute return to form for Vampire Weekend, Far From the 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Bride is the name of the album. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That was my most listened to album of the year. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's funny how time works. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Most of the songs are Maggie Rogers, but I'm listening to the album. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But yeah, they were my two favorite albums of last year. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I also loved False Alarm by Tudo Cinema Club. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So there's more recommendations for you if you want them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Marcello asks, "Do you use multiple volumes in your internal Mac boot disk, one for system, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     other for documents or whatever, or do you just use one big volume? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And are there any pros or cons to one method over the other?" 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     After reading about, I forget who it was now, somebody's approach to photos, I actually 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have finally embraced APFS. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I have, well, first off, one for system, one for documents. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Catalina means that you have a volume for system. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like Catalina enforces that you have a volume for system. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's called the name of your volume, space, dash, space, system, I think. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like that's, everybody gets that now in Catalina. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I also have an APFS volume called Photos that has a maximum size. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the idea here is that all these APFS volumes share space. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You don't have to like commit 10 gigs over here and then you don't get that 10 gigs anywhere 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:26:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They all share space, which is great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you can enforce a quota. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And what that means is I've got my photo library set to only download what it needs. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not syncing the whole library because it won't fit on my SSD. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But as it's downloading what it needs, it's waiting until it gets to a certain percentage 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     before it starts deleting stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it'll fill up a lot of your drive before it'll start deleting stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the tip that I got from somebody who I can't remember now, sorry about that, is make 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a photos volume, give it a quota, a maximum size it can be. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then when it reaches near 10% of that, it'll start deleting files and it won't expand 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to fill all the space on your hard drive. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I am doing that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's the first time I've done something like that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But that's it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't do a lot of partitions. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I generally just kind of want everything in one place. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I don't do anything like that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I feel like I would start to lose track of where everything was being kept and then it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     would just become more of a problem. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I would say that now with APFS, this is a great time to do that if you're a kind of 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     person who wants to do these partitions because they don't steal the space. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's huge, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Again, you don't want to have this, "Oh God, why did I make that partition 50 gigabytes 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because I really could use another 30 gigabytes now and it's over there, it's empty, but I'm 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:28:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like APFS, that doesn't happen. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's much more kind of free, but I never did because I don't need more places to look 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:28:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And in the end, it's one logical volume. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it doesn't, it's literally one disk. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it kind of doesn't matter. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But with a photos thing, I'm trying that and that's actually pretty cool. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:28:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And our final question today comes from Brian. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Do you use your left modifier keys or right modifier keys more often? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And do you think it aligns with your general handedness? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, Brian, Brian. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I told Brian on Twitter, this was a good question and I have a little bit of a weird answer 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:28:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I discovered that I always use the left command key. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:28:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I never use the right command key. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The right command key, the right control. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Somebody was talking because there was a keyboard, back to keyboards. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There was a keyboard that didn't, what was it? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was, they had moved, oh, it was, there was a keyboard that had a little tiny command 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     key or control key and they had moved it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like one was only on one side and not the other. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I realized the first moment I use this keyboard, I can't use this keyboard because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this keyboard prioritizes this right command key or control key or whatever, and not the 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:29:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I do everything I do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And as somebody pointed out in this Twitter thread, all the good stuff like command S, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     command Q, command A, those are all over there on the left side of the keyboard anyway. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And yeah, if I want to print something, my left thumb goes down on the command key and 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     my right index finger or middle finger goes on the P. I do not switch to the right command 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     key and then with my right hand do command P. I can't explain it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I can't explain anything about how I type. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm a self taught typist. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I type fast, but I don't type conventionally. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just pot myself. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not a system you learn. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a system I made up and I can't explain the command key other than maybe it goes back 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to when I had an Apple II and there was like the open Apple key and the closed Apple key 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they were different. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The answer is my left thumb does it all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I was trying to pay attention to what I'm doing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the only, the only like real patterns that I'd learned is that I use the left command 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     key most often. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The reason that I think I do this is because most of the shortcuts that I want to use command 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for are located on the left side of the keyboard. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like command A, command C, command B. That's where all the good ones are. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 01:30:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like I'm used to doing that and I use the right shift key the most because a lot of 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the time when I'm using shift, I'm selecting things and the arrow keys are on the right 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:30:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So they're the only two that I've noticed that like I was using those consistently in 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:30:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I use the shift on the, on the left side most of the time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think there are times if I'm, I think if like I'm capitalizing a letter on the left 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     side, maybe I use the right shift key, but for the most, like using arrow keys to select 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     stuff, I don't use like a finger of my right hand to hold down shift while I also use my 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     right hand for the arrow keys. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I do not do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I, I'm using the right hand for the arrow keys and the left hand for the shift key. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is surely there have been like a graduate student thesis written on, on keyboarding 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     methods, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Where they just photograph people using their keyboards and come up with like what the different 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     populations are about that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it's a great question, Brian, because it's, it's super weird, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's and I don't think it even has to do with left-handed or right-handed because I'm right-handed 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're left-handed and we both use the left command key. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:31:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I, when I saw this question, I was like, that's a silly question, Brian. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Nobody does that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then I was like, paid attention to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was like, oh, I do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have ways that I work. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So great question, Brian. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Brian Hamilton. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:31:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on a future episode, send out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade, and it will be sent into a list, which may be 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     included later on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I want to thank our sponsors again for the support of the shows, ExpressVPN, Hello and 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:32:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you want to find Jason online, he is @jasonel, J S N E double L. I am @imike, I M Y K E. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This show is a part of Relay FM. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can find this show and many more at relay.fm/shows. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can find Jason's writing online at sixcolors.com. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And of course, Jason hosts shows over at the incomparable.com as well. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you can get your fix for all of the pop culture stuff that you love in your life. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There is something at the incomparable for you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Thank you so much for listening and we'll be back next time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think we have a special episode planned for next time, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know if we want to give it away, but we can tease it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We're working on something fun for the next week. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I think we're in serious danger of doing a draft next week with a special guest. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There is no Apple event that we're aware of. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     No, this is a historical draft. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Out of canon. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But we'll be back next time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Goodbye Myke Hurley. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Enjoy Hollywood!