00:00:26 ◼ ► Just great, you know, again we are two of the people least affected by what's going on in the
00:00:32 ◼ ► world because we stay inside and work inside all the time, but it makes me feel a little bit
00:00:39 ◼ ► strange and of course my entire family is in my house now so, you know, it's, we live in
00:00:52 ◼ ► "Jason, what's your desktop background and does it serve any purpose other than decoration?"
00:01:00 ◼ ► Well, I've seen people that design like desktop backgrounds to have calendars on them and stuff,
00:01:25 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly. I think, so I actually just wrote a piece that we can link to in the show notes
00:01:56 ◼ ► But the truth is, and you can see it in that screenshot, no, it serves no other purpose
00:02:01 ◼ ► than decoration. And what I actually use as my desktop background is from an app called Downlink,
00:02:09 ◼ ► which you can get at downlinkapp.com. And it accesses the satellite imagery real-time-ish,
00:02:15 ◼ ► you know, 15-minute increments or whatever. Satellite imagery from various satellites above
00:02:21 ◼ ► the Earth. And so I have a shot of the West Coast of North America out into the Pacific Ocean out
00:02:28 ◼ ► past Hawaii as my desktop background. And that changes, you know, every so often during the day.
00:02:35 ◼ ► So right now, when I look at it, I actually can see the terminator between here and Hawaii because
00:02:40 ◼ ► the sun hasn't come up in Hawaii yet. And I can see the clouds over California. And, you know,
00:02:45 ◼ ► if it's a clear day, then it'll be clear over California. And it's just pretty. And I can see
00:02:50 ◼ ► down through Baja, California and the Sea of Cortez and all of that. And yeah, so that's what
00:03:02 ◼ ► - Very nice, very nice. If you would like to send in a Snell Talk question for a future episode,
00:03:07 ◼ ► just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk and it may be included like Marcus's was.
00:03:12 ◼ ► We should move on to some follow-ups. So iWork and iMovie. So the iWork apps on iOS or iPadOS
00:03:19 ◼ ► and iMovie have all been updated to take use of Apple's new trackpad cursor support stuff on iPadOS.
00:03:25 ◼ ► I've been really happy with the changes to numbers specifically. I think it's wonderful being able to
00:03:32 ◼ ► like see hovers and to be able to very easily move stuff around. And there's a lot of usage
00:03:38 ◼ ► of custom cursors that Apple have made in these applications. Like for example, in Keynote,
00:03:45 ◼ ► you can rotate imagery and stuff and they've made like a custom little rotate, like two little arrows
00:03:51 ◼ ► pointing in like curved circles around where the cursor is. So I'm all like the cursor turns into
00:03:57 ◼ ► those is probably a better thing to say. So yeah, I'm really excited to see more of this stuff. But
00:04:02 ◼ ► I think what Apple have done to these applications is really good. It's really good. I think the thing
00:04:08 ◼ ► that hit me about the numbers update is it behaves in not always, but in many ways, just like numbers
00:04:17 ◼ ► on the Mac in that, and something about that got to me that if you've got a chart and you use the
00:04:24 ◼ ► cursor and you click and you drag over items in the chart, it selects them. Which is not groundbreaking
00:04:31 ◼ ► at all, but that is not a concept that you really had on the iPad before. To click and drag and
00:04:39 ◼ ► basically lasso up a selection of stuff. And you do it because you think, "Oh, well, I do this on
00:04:46 ◼ ► the Mac, so I'll do it here." And it works, which is how it should be. Even just the text selection,
00:04:51 ◼ ► I'm really happy they brought it to pages. The idea of just like, I don't have to do something
00:04:57 ◼ ► before I start selecting text. It's so different, right? Completely normal to me on the Mac,
00:05:09 ◼ ► I also wanted to give a shout out to Fantastical. They had a fantastic update to support cursor
00:05:14 ◼ ► support as well. To being able to now do things like drag and extend an event over multiple days.
00:05:21 ◼ ► They've just put some really good stuff into it, like hovers and stuff like that. I'm really happy
00:05:27 ◼ ► with it. It's just like an app that I've seen that's really taken good advantage of it.
00:05:30 ◼ ► I want to keep calling these out as I see them because I think it's important to encourage this.
00:05:41 ◼ ► to using touch. Did we mention last week's screens from Adobe? I think so, but it's actually gotten
00:05:47 ◼ ► better since last week. They made a new update that hides the iPad cursor when you're using it.
00:05:54 ◼ ► You're driving a remote computer. You move your trackpad or mouse or whatever on the iPad,
00:05:59 ◼ ► and it moves that cursor. Their first release, there was a double cursor. Then they used the
00:06:05 ◼ ► new APIs to hide the cursor in that scenario. I think Federico wrote a piece last week where
00:06:11 ◼ ► he referred to it as it's Mac as an app. That really is when you're in that scenario, which is
00:06:17 ◼ ► great, especially if you're somebody. If I'm somewhere else in my house or elsewhere, really,
00:06:23 ◼ ► and I'm using an iPad and I need to do something that is specifically on a Mac, I have my Mac Mini
00:06:28 ◼ ► server. It's always on, and I can just open it up and do that thing. Now it feels completely
00:06:33 ◼ ► natural if I'm using a trackpad and keyboard. Super nice. Turns out the 2020 iPad does have
00:06:40 ◼ ► a feature we didn't know about that makes a difference to the 2018 iPad. I'm going to read you
00:06:44 ◼ ► something from an Apple support page or security page. iPad models beginning in 2020 also feature
00:06:50 ◼ ► the hardware microphone disconnect. When an MFI compliant case made for iPhone compliant case,
00:06:56 ◼ ► including those sold by Apple, is attached to the iPad and closed, the microphone is disconnected
00:07:01 ◼ ► in hardware preventing microphone audio data being made available to any software, even with root or
00:07:07 ◼ ► kernel privileges in iPad OS or in case the firmware is compromised. So this is a feature
00:07:13 ◼ ► that is in some T2 enabled Macs where the microphone could just be shut off basically in
00:07:20 ◼ ► hardware, right? So there's no way that someone can actually turn it on when you haven't given it
00:07:25 ◼ ► permission to be on. The microphone hardware disconnects when the lid is closed, and here
00:07:29 ◼ ► the microphone is disconnecting when I'm assuming a magnet hits a particular part on the case,
00:07:35 ◼ ► and then it's popping, it's pulling the connection away, but it means that it's physically impossible.
00:07:40 ◼ ► It can't be hacked. The way you would have to hack it is you would also have to replace their case,
00:07:46 ◼ ► right? With one that doesn't have a magnet there or something because the normal set of magnets,
00:07:52 ◼ ► will presumably one of them will pop that and then there's no there's no microphone connection then.
00:07:59 ◼ ► Matt>> So again, this is not a reason to buy the 2020 iPad Pro, but it's an interesting change
00:08:04 ◼ ► because what it shows is that Apple was thinking more and more about how to make these devices
00:08:09 ◼ ► more privacy conscious. I like the way that they've done this, you know, with the case idea,
00:08:15 ◼ ► because that is presuming you then are not using the iPad so you're good, right? You've closed it
00:08:20 ◼ ► up. So I think that they've done a really good job with that. And references to, well, a reference to
00:08:27 ◼ ► the phrase "AirTags are shown up in an Apple support video for Find My." Steve>> This is a recurring
00:08:33 ◼ ► theme for us, right? Which is what Apple, what are you doing? Matt>> Let me say what this is and I'm
00:08:38 ◼ ► going to come back to that. So the feature is being shown off in a support page called "Enable
00:08:45 ◼ ► offline finding." So this will enable a device or paired AirTags to be found when not connected to
00:08:51 ◼ ► Wi-Fi or cellular. And this is taking advantage of the ultra wideband and/or Bluetooth to basically
00:08:58 ◼ ► locate a device or an AirTag via other people's iPhones and Macs which is... Steve>> I think this
00:09:05 ◼ ► is the Bluetooth LE beacon which basically sends an ID and other devices see it and send it back
00:09:11 ◼ ► to Apple and say, "I saw this device at this place at this time." And that could, you know, you could
00:09:16 ◼ ► argue that that's a privacy issue so you can turn it on and you can turn it off as you see fit.
00:09:20 ◼ ► Matt>> So this is a, like, this is going to be the, like, must-buy reason for AirTags, right? That
00:09:26 ◼ ► you could put them in your bag, you could put them on your pet's collar or whatever, depending on how
00:09:31 ◼ ► big they are, and you will be able to find this stuff by the use of the billions of Apple devices
00:09:38 ◼ ► that exist in the world, right? It's going to absolutely destroy this market if you're an iPhone
00:09:44 ◼ ► user. Or even if you're not, honestly, right? Like, you just have an iPad, you pair it to something,
00:09:50 ◼ ► you're great, you still take the use of it. Now, I think the reason this has happened is Apple
00:09:55 ◼ ► have clearly delayed AirTags, it would seem, and these, all of this stuff, all of these assets are
00:10:02 ◼ ► created and they're put into systems and then these systems release the assets, right? So, like,
00:10:07 ◼ ► these support videos were to be published for a device that exists. I think AirTags, we're not
00:10:14 ◼ ► going to see them this year, no. Do you want to know why, Jay? Tell me why. Because people aren't
00:10:19 ◼ ► going outside, are they? How do you sell a product which is for in case you lose something if you're
00:10:26 ◼ ► not leaving the home? Like, how do you lose something? Like, I mean, yes, you can lose things
00:10:31 ◼ ► in your house, but I don't think that that is what this product will be, like, mainly positioned for.
00:10:38 ◼ ► So, I would be surprised to see this product launch in the current climate that we're in,
00:10:52 ◼ ► to market this product. Yeah, we'll talk about Quibi later, speaking of products that maybe
00:10:59 ◼ ► shouldn't be launching right now, but I agree with you, though. I think one of the reasons that this
00:11:03 ◼ ► AirTag stuff and the U1 chip are happening is because this is a product that Apple thought
00:11:09 ◼ ► would be ready at various times and then turns out isn't, and so they're proceeding under the
00:11:15 ◼ ► assumption that it's in there, and then they have to take it out, and they didn't take it out of
00:11:19 ◼ ► every bit of documentation, and therefore, you end up leaking it. It seems like they intended it to
00:11:25 ◼ ► ship in the fall and it wasn't ready, probably, and now it seems like maybe it is ready. And I
00:11:31 ◼ ► think you're right, it may be that they just don't want to ship it. And why not launch it later? I
00:11:37 ◼ ► mean, you could argue why not launch it now, but they're not going to sell them now and people have
00:11:41 ◼ ► forgotten about them by the time that they're moving around and traveling around and potentially
00:11:45 ◼ ► losing things. It's an interesting question, but clearly this product exists, right? This isn't
00:11:55 ◼ ► And it may be that they are going to put them on sale sooner rather than later, but they need to
00:12:02 ◼ ► You would assume that the ads showed people traveling and forgetting their bag at an airport.
00:12:12 ◼ ► So, we'll see. We're going to be doing a Myke in the Movies next week. I said to Jason, "Hey,
00:12:19 ◼ ► Jason, I want to watch a happy movie. What do you recommend?" And what did you recommend?
00:12:33 ◼ ► Yeah, I'll tell you what happens in Star Trek III. Star Trek III is the search for Spock,
00:13:05 ◼ ► Yeah, 1986, directed by Leonard Nimoy, who also directed Star Trek III. And it is, I think,
00:13:13 ◼ ► depending on how you calculate it, it's basically the most financially successful of all of the
00:13:19 ◼ ► original Star Trek movies. It was a hit in 1986, and that's because it's a feel-good comedy. Yes,
00:13:26 ◼ ► it's a sci-fi movie, it's a Star Trek movie, but it is also a funny movie. And if you haven't seen
00:13:30 ◼ ► it or you haven't seen it recently, I think it's a good movie to watch because it's nice. And we
00:13:35 ◼ ► live in dark times right now, so watch a nice fun movie about a bunch of space people who go back
00:13:40 ◼ ► to the '80s. It's funny. So, yeah. Let's talk about Apple and their coronavirus response,
00:13:49 ◼ ► their update for this week. So, lots of news as always, and I will do my best to summarize them.
00:13:55 ◼ ► So, according to Bloomberg, Apple employees are struggling still to adjust to work from home life
00:14:01 ◼ ► while maintaining product secrecy. We've heard this before, but there's been continued reports
00:14:06 ◼ ► of this being difficult for Apple employees. This is Mark Gurman calling all the people he
00:14:11 ◼ ► knows who work at Apple and go like, "Hey, how's it going?" "How's it going?" "I'm here. I'm in
00:14:15 ◼ ► my house. You're in your house. What's going on?" And they're like, "Oh, man, let me tell you." And
00:14:18 ◼ ► he's like, "Yes, yes, tell me more." And then there's a story. That's how journalism works
00:14:22 ◼ ► today. I mean, it's like, what else is going to happen? It's people in their homes. So,
00:14:32 ◼ ► "What's this like?" And I try to think about like software developers. I keep thinking like,
00:14:36 ◼ ► that's something I get. I totally get software developers and how they might work in a distributed
00:14:41 ◼ ► environment because that happens. And I think about like building hardware and stuff. And I
00:14:45 ◼ ► think, how does that work? Like, how do you keep that rolling? I know that the designers aren't
00:14:53 ◼ ► exactly like sitting around soldering things all day and bending wires and stuff, but still,
00:14:58 ◼ ► it feels much more hands-on. It feels like that would be a greater leap in order to keep the ball
00:15:02 ◼ ► rolling on. You're designing the next iPhone or iPad or Mac or whatever. And to do that when
00:15:09 ◼ ► everybody's in their own home seems harder to me. It is, according to Gurman, harder, in fact.
00:15:24 ◼ ► especially with the hardware, this is difficult. It is also apparently difficult with software
00:15:30 ◼ ► because Apple is only able to, or is only allowing certain people to be able to use this stuff at
00:15:37 ◼ ► home. You've got to assume that like, you know, they're worried about network security. They're
00:15:42 ◼ ► worried about like, does it call like sneaker net security, right? Take the source code out of
00:15:47 ◼ ► Cupertino. I totally see why you wouldn't want to do that, right? Like you're secrecy focused and
00:15:53 ◼ ► you've got a bunch of stuff that you're working on and then suddenly you change your policy and now
00:15:58 ◼ ► it's like at somebody's house on their laptop. It's like, I get it. But at the same time,
00:16:03 ◼ ► what are you going to do? Stop working? - Exactly. So, apparently though, there are still a selection
00:16:09 ◼ ► of products that are being worked on, including a new HomePod, which is interesting, a new Apple TV,
00:16:16 ◼ ► a new MacBook Pro, the lower price iPads, so not the iPad Pros, the regular iPads, Apple Watch,
00:16:26 ◼ ► - Well, I mean, they never stop, right? Like they may be working, you know, Gruber always points out
00:16:33 ◼ ► that, you know, this year's iPhone is already designed and specced and probably being built.
00:16:38 ◼ ► That's true, but next year's iPhone isn't, right? Next year's iPhone is being designed now.
00:16:45 ◼ ► And then they're also working on the year after's iPhone and like it never stops. So we may end up
00:16:50 ◼ ► in a situation a little like movies and TV actually, where new stuff is rolling out now.
00:16:56 ◼ ► Like there are movies that were, I mean, other than movies and theaters, which is another problem,
00:17:00 ◼ ► but like TV shows, there are TV shows that have been made and are going to come out in the next
00:17:05 ◼ ► few months. But what's going to happen, and you used to see this with whenever there's a writer
00:17:10 ◼ ► strike, for example, you would see this. Then there's a gap, but it comes later where it's like,
00:17:17 ◼ ► "Oh, now we've run out." And now the shows are back and there's a gap. And that's, I think,
00:17:23 ◼ ► the challenge here for Apple is not necessarily this year, but like, does this slow down,
00:17:37 ◼ ► just had to slow down because of this and for good reason, but like where I don't know where
00:17:42 ◼ ► that hole is, but there's going to be a hole in Apple's like product schedule that is where we may,
00:17:49 ◼ ► depending on how long they have to rectify it, we may see the hit that they're taking because
00:17:54 ◼ ► they all had to leave the building. Will Barron, JL;DR; You know, you mentioned TV there for a
00:17:59 ◼ ► second. I wanted to say like, I wanted to like just reference because we were talking about
00:18:08 ◼ ► they're using AirPods. John Oliver, I don't know why HBO have done, they did the right thing. It
00:18:13 ◼ ► looks like the John Oliver show. He's recording at home. He has a white background. He has a proper
00:18:18 ◼ ► camera, a teleprompter, a good microphone. Like, yeah, because you can put those things in the mail
00:18:23 ◼ ► and send them to people. No, they placed a really nice order from B&H. And, you know, he got a paper
00:18:30 ◼ ► like background to clip up and a couple of lights and a camera or, you know, it might be an iPhone
00:18:36 ◼ ► camera. Honestly, you couldn't tell if it was a phone camera because phone cameras are so good now.
00:18:41 ◼ ► And they are broadcast quality essentially. If they're lit properly, yeah. Well, all of them,
00:18:47 ◼ ► it's a tangent that I'm fascinated by it because they are all trying to figure this stuff out and
00:18:54 ◼ ► all of them have all kind of come back at a certain level. Like, Stephen Colbert is the
00:19:00 ◼ ► same way. He's got an iPhone and then he's got, it looks like a laptop on the floor with a Zoom
00:19:06 ◼ ► conference with his producers who are like saying, "No, do that again," kind of stuff. But like,
00:19:10 ◼ ► they're all figuring it out because the consumer tech at this point and readily available tech
00:19:16 ◼ ► is so good that you can, you know, you're going to have to take, there'll be a lot of FaceTime calls
00:19:22 ◼ ► saying, "No, push this button. No, no, no, not that button, this button," kind of stuff to get them
00:19:33 ◼ ► you get some LED light panels, you get this microphone, you get the computer here and the
00:19:37 ◼ ► phone here and the tripod and all that. And it can end up looking pretty good. Yeah. John Oliver's
00:19:47 ◼ ► - Yeah. And Trevor Noah's show looks really great. He's in front of like his own furniture
00:19:51 ◼ ► instead of in a white void. Like, I imagine that John Oliver didn't have a really good background,
00:20:01 ◼ ► it looks great. It really does. They figured it out and Colbert's figuring it out and Jimmy Fallon
00:20:08 ◼ ► is figuring it out. Like, they're all figuring it out now, which is fun to see. And the tech
00:20:13 ◼ ► is there that you just have to, your high priced comedian talent, you got to walk them through how
00:20:23 ◼ ► - But like, it was refreshing to me to see that at least some television production companies
00:20:31 ◼ ► can understand that it is possible to make this stuff look good with home stuff. All the other
00:20:40 ◼ ► is a great example. Although Trevor Noah, I would say, is at that level and Colbert is getting there,
00:20:56 ◼ ► Like, other than the fact that the background is different, it ends up being about the content
00:21:08 ◼ ► files and they got to transfer that HD video over the internet to an editor to put, right?
00:21:15 ◼ ► Like all of that is super complicated. Like the writer's rooms have to run with, are they doing
00:21:20 ◼ ► like Google docs and Zoom meetings and stuff like that? Like it's, there's a bunch of stuff beneath
00:21:25 ◼ ► the waterline that we don't even see, but it is really amazing to watch as these shows start to
00:21:31 ◼ ► turn into the same show as it was before, except now it's all kind of DIY, but they've managed to
00:21:37 ◼ ► figure it out. And I'm not surprised that that happened, but some of them are happening faster
00:21:42 ◼ ► than I thought, because this is literally like show two for John Oliver in his house. And it's
00:21:47 ◼ ► just his show now. All right. So going back to what we were talking about, which is Apple and
00:21:56 ◼ ► leaked out that the 5G iPhone is still on track for 2020. Like we said, listen to Gruber, you've
00:22:04 ◼ ► heard this before. It's already done. Like it's already done. It's already designed. They had to
00:22:07 ◼ ► make it. And so it's great to hear Foxconn say, yeah, yeah, we'll do that. But like that's one of
00:22:14 ◼ ► these products that seems to be already down the line. It doesn't seem to be, it's like a TV show
00:22:20 ◼ ► that they already shot and are in the process of editing and they may be editing it in their houses
00:22:24 ◼ ► now. There was a great, I think Instagram shot of somebody who's editing the new season of Star
00:22:29 ◼ ► Trek Discovery. And it's just like a trashcan Mac Pro and a big monitor and some speakers on a card
00:22:34 ◼ ► table next to their stairs in their house. And it's like, all right, but that like they can put
00:22:39 ◼ ► that show out. They can make that happen. And I feel like the 2020 iPhones are probably like that
00:22:46 ◼ ► where it's like, yeah, we can make this work. This is not where the gap is going to be.
00:22:49 ◼ ► Apple has communicated internally that they're expecting their stores to be closed until at least
00:22:56 ◼ ► early May. So they keep kind of pushing that forward. That's just going to keep getting pushed
00:23:00 ◼ ► forward. Uh, and Tim Cook appeared again on Twitter via video to announce that Apple is
00:23:05 ◼ ► now sourced over 20 million masks to be distributed worldwide. Last week it was half of that.
00:23:10 ◼ ► And Apple's also designed, developed, and manufactured a face shield for medical workers.
00:23:16 ◼ ► They have delivered the first batch of these to some hospitals in the US and they're going to
00:23:20 ◼ ► start shipping 1 million of them a week starting in America, but looking to expand beyond. So it's
00:23:25 ◼ ► pretty cool. Yeah. Tim, somebody got to Tim and said, Tim, it's your Twitter account. You don't
00:23:30 ◼ ► need to introduce yourself every time we know who you are. And also told him how to stop the video.
00:23:35 ◼ ► Did a good job this time. He did. So Tim Cook like John Oliver and Stephen Colbert and Trevor Noah,
00:23:42 ◼ ► Tim Cook improving his skills. I can't wait for him to do, uh, an interview and a monologue in
00:23:48 ◼ ► the future. Any day now. One of the things he said in that video that I thought was really nice is he
00:23:52 ◼ ► said, we're just trying to find things that we were applicant, add something like we're not,
00:23:56 ◼ ► if there's a skill that we have, that's so we think we can contribute something. That's what
00:24:02 ◼ ► we're looking for. And I think that's the right attitude to have is not like what can we do to be
00:24:06 ◼ ► seen as much as like, are there things we have in our manufacturing and design capabilities that we
00:24:13 ◼ ► think we could, we could actually make a difference and let's try to do that. And they seem to be like
00:24:17 ◼ ► the face shield seems to be a good example of that. And the, and the mask distribution for
00:24:22 ◼ ► healthcare workers. Definitely. All right. Today's show is brought to you by Eero. Eero is the wifi
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00:26:36 ◼ ► So we're in upstream now and we have a big Apple Amazon theme to talk about. So out of nowhere last
00:26:45 ◼ ► week, it became suddenly possible without again, like a lot of fanfare to be able to purchase
00:26:52 ◼ ► movies and TV shows in the Amazon Prime app. So this had previously not been possible because
00:26:57 ◼ ► of Apple's in-app purchase rules related to digital goods. So if you sell a digital product,
00:27:02 ◼ ► you have to put it through Apple's in-app purchase system and movies and TV shows inside of the
00:27:07 ◼ ► Amazon Prime Video app would count as that. So it was like this way you'd have to do it previously
00:27:12 ◼ ► is like you couldn't sign up for Prime in it, you couldn't buy anything in it and Amazon couldn't
00:27:16 ◼ ► link you anywhere. So you either were a customer or you weren't and you kind of had to work out
00:27:22 ◼ ► on your own. I think you could sign up for Prime or Prime for Prime Video using Apple's method.
00:27:29 ◼ ► I think you could do that. I think that was the one they again, they don't want you to do that,
00:27:34 ◼ ► but I think like Netflix used to be before they dropped out of that. Right. Okay. I think you
00:27:38 ◼ ► could. Slight difference. Slight difference there. Thank you for that clarification. But now
00:27:41 ◼ ► if you are a Prime customer with Amazon, you can buy video content with your existing logins. So
00:27:48 ◼ ► this is stuff that's on top of your Prime now. Yeah. So I'm a Prime member and I have the Prime
00:27:54 ◼ ► Video app and I was able to all of a sudden they put up a little screen that goes, "Do do do, you
00:27:59 ◼ ► can now do this." But like I was able to find a movie and tap rent. I think a Jojo Rabbit is the
00:28:06 ◼ ► one that I did. And I was just like, "Oh, rent this movie." And it's like, "All right, we're
00:28:10 ◼ ► going to rent this movie and charge your credit card that we have on file at Amazon." And then I
00:28:15 ◼ ► got an Amazon receipt that said, "You just rented a movie." And so for me, my experience had nothing
00:28:22 ◼ ► to do, no connection with Apple at all. I was doing that all inside the Amazon app using Amazon's
00:28:28 ◼ ► payment services. So it's not just that it's... A lot of debate about Apple taking 30% and if they
00:28:38 ◼ ► might change it so Apple's taking less through their in-app purchase system. This is not Apple's
00:28:44 ◼ ► in-app purchase system. This is just Amazon. This is how it works on Android, by the way,
00:29:06 ◼ ► And you can also sign up now for Prime via Apple subscription method too. Before I think it was
00:29:13 ◼ ► just you'd still have to do it through Amazon. But now if you're not a Prime video member and
00:29:18 ◼ ► you want to become one and you're in the iOS app for Prime video, which is a funny way that
00:29:24 ◼ ► you'd find yourself in that situation, I think you can subscribe via Apple subscription method.
00:29:30 ◼ ► So Apple, after this got published in a few paces, and I'm sure that a lot of journalists reached out
00:29:35 ◼ ► to their press contacts at Apple for a statement on this, Apple did release a statement, but it's
00:29:45 ◼ ► - There really isn't much in this statement except for saying that there is a special deal available
00:29:58 ◼ ► that I'd never heard of. Like Canal Plus I've heard of before because they're the company that
00:30:12 ◼ ► - Altice One. Okay. I don't know that one at all. So these are two companies that Apple is doing
00:30:18 ◼ ► this deal with, where they will allow for purchases inside of the app using an existing,
00:30:24 ◼ ► like an external payment processing. But to do this, to get access to this deal is a bit give
00:30:30 ◼ ► and take. So Apple say that you have to support everything they want you to. So all the APIs that
00:30:36 ◼ ► they want, you have to have your content in the TV app, you have to support AirPlay too, all that
00:30:40 ◼ ► kind of stuff. Amazon is the first worldwide distributor to take advantage of this program.
00:30:44 ◼ ► Clearly some deal has been struck. I think that if you've been paying attention, it's easy to see
00:30:51 ◼ ► that Apple and Amazon have been doing a lot of stuff together over the last year, right? You've
00:30:55 ◼ ► got like Apple Music on the Echo, the TV app on Fire products, Apple products back on Amazon for
00:31:06 ◼ ► sale. There was a deal done, which includes a lot of things. Whether we've seen all of that yet,
00:31:13 ◼ ► I don't know, but there has clearly been a lot of like give and take with Apple and Amazon. And this
00:31:22 ◼ ► given Apple statement, I don't wanna overemphasize what this might mean because I think maybe this
00:31:32 ◼ ► arrangement couldn't have happened if Apple and Amazon hadn't buried the hatchet. But Apple saying
00:31:39 ◼ ► very specifically, this is an existing program. This is not even the first or the second company
00:31:44 ◼ ► to do this. And we haven't mentioned it, but like Apple TV and the TV app is a big part of what this
00:31:53 ◼ ► is, right? Because I get the impression that Apple basically has said, we will give you a premium
00:32:01 ◼ ► subscription video provider. We will give you the freedom to charge your customers for extra stuff.
00:32:09 ◼ ► It's like if you wanted to build your cable company app and still charge people for on-demand
00:32:15 ◼ ► or something through it, like they're your existing customer, they're paying you a subscription fee.
00:32:20 ◼ ► If you wanna charge them and not do in-app purchase, it's fine. But here's what you have
00:32:26 ◼ ► to do to get this, to get us to approve it. And I suspect it is things like fully integrating into
00:32:31 ◼ ► the Apple TV app and the API so that I can link to you and you tell me what they're watching and
00:32:36 ◼ ► I can show it in the TV app as what's been... Like you need to be in our video ecosystem
00:32:42 ◼ ► to get this feature, which Netflix doesn't have, right? Netflix doesn't do all cart. So this is not
00:32:51 ◼ ► a carrot for Netflix, right? Because they don't do all cart. They only do a subscription fee.
00:32:55 ◼ ► So, but Amazon sells stuff. It doesn't just do a subscription fee, it sells stuff. So it's
00:33:01 ◼ ► unique in that way. So when this initially broke, I thought, "Oh, maybe this is exactly what you
00:33:10 ◼ ► said," which is another offshoot of that bearing the hatchet between Apple and Amazon, and that
00:33:18 ◼ ► it would be followed up by Kindle and Comixology. And then Apple released the statement and I
00:33:24 ◼ ► thought, "Oh, maybe not then." Like, 'cause it is very TV focused. So I initially thought, "Well,
00:33:31 ◼ ► wouldn't it be nice?" But it's what Apple says as well. It's about video and it's about a
00:33:35 ◼ ► subscription video product. And then when you're a member of that subscription video service,
00:33:40 ◼ ► then you get this extra ability to buy things inside it. And that, short of like the video
00:33:48 ◼ ► takes out Kindle and Comixology, they do offer subscription services within both of those
00:33:56 ◼ ► products. But it's not video, but I could see that. So I think it's an open question. Like,
00:34:01 ◼ ► it would be really great if this continued and Kindle and Comixology got purchase inside of it.
00:34:10 ◼ ► But like, I don't know, it seems like a bit far afield from this because this is a very specific
00:34:16 ◼ ► instance where you have to, A, it's gotta be video. B, you have to have an existing subscription
00:34:21 ◼ ► relationship with Amazon. And then C, you have the ability to pay more money to buy or rent things
00:34:29 ◼ ► inside it. And like, even if they brought that to something like Kindle or Comixology where there's
00:34:35 ◼ ► like Kindle Unlimited and the Comixology Unlimited subscription services, and yes, they also sell
00:34:41 ◼ ► products inside those stores. Even if you got over the video hump, that's still a weird experience,
00:34:47 ◼ ► right? Where regular Kindle users would not be able to buy books under this circumstance. You'd
00:34:53 ◼ ► have to be a Kindle Unlimited member unless they claimed that Prime was a membership that included
00:35:00 ◼ ► books or like, I don't know. It seems like a stretch is what I'm saying. And so while I was
00:35:04 ◼ ► really excited about the ability to buy potentially books and comics inside Amazon's apps as a next
00:35:10 ◼ ► step here, reading Apple's statement, I think it's not gonna happen. And that this is really
00:35:15 ◼ ► just specifically about Amazon ticking all the boxes in terms of being an Apple's TV ecosystem.
00:35:29 ◼ ► - This whole thing has made me re-realize how unfair I think this rule is. Like, there is no
00:35:43 ◼ ► reason. They're not serving the files. They're not gonna provide the payment system 'cause Amazon
00:35:49 ◼ ► don't even want that. - It is rent-seeking behavior. It is Apple saying, "It's our platform,
00:35:58 ◼ ► because we control it. We don't provide anything to you here. We just are gonna take money from you."
00:36:04 ◼ ► - But it's so easy for Amazon to very, I think, rightly fire back and be like, "No, no,
00:36:25 ◼ ► - I understand. So the argument from Apple's side is that it's not rent-seeking behavior.
00:36:32 ◼ ► It's protecting the platform because they don't want apps from unscrupulous vendors to suddenly
00:36:39 ◼ ► start charging you, and you don't know anything about their infrastructure, whether they're
00:36:43 ◼ ► unscrupulous or just not paying attention. Like, you may be compromising your credit card, and are
00:36:49 ◼ ► they gonna be charging you for more than they say, and all these things. It's like, well, you don't
00:36:52 ◼ ► have to worry about it 'cause Apple is gonna protect you from that. And I see that, but then
00:36:57 ◼ ► you look at a company like Amazon and you think, "Come on, Amazon is so huge, and they've got an
00:37:08 ◼ ► Kindle and ComiXology on iOS is appreciably worse for users than on Android because of Apple's
00:37:20 ◼ ► policy, because it means that if you wanna buy a book, you have to go to Amazon's website and do it.
00:37:25 ◼ ► Whereas Apple, and it's even worse because Apple has a book app, and you don't have to do it with
00:37:31 ◼ ► Apple's book app because Apple is the landlord, and so they get to set those rules and they don't
00:37:37 ◼ ► have to, they don't apply to Apple because there's no middleman. Apple is the man, and Apple takes
00:37:45 ◼ ► all the money. So it's ridiculous and unfair, and I hope that they find a way to define the rules in
00:37:54 ◼ ► a way where shady apps don't try to charge your credit card, but giant companies with existing
00:38:01 ◼ ► financial relationships can because I would really like to buy Kindle books on iOS without going to
00:38:08 ◼ ► the webpage and ComiXology especially. For me, that's where it really hits me is I read a lot of
00:38:13 ◼ ► comics on my iPad, and every time I wanna buy new comics, I have to go to Safari, I have to log in
00:38:20 ◼ ► again because their login only sticks for seven days on the web, and then I have to go through
00:38:27 ◼ ► and find the comics, and then I have to switch back to the app, and then I have to refresh,
00:38:35 ◼ ► oh, we wanna protect our customers, but there is an app on iOS called Safari that will allow me to
00:38:41 ◼ ► put my card information into literally any website I want, right? So like, sure, the app store is
00:38:55 ◼ ► - Yeah, and well, my argument would be there will still be a motivator if they drop this demand,
00:39:01 ◼ ► there would still be a motivator for people to use the in-app purchase system because it is clean
00:39:06 ◼ ► and easy, and you don't have to reenter your credit card information, and it's backed by Apple,
00:39:13 ◼ ► and like there's still plenty of reasons for apps to use the in-app purchase system to reduce
00:39:21 ◼ ► things like CloudKit, there are other syncing solutions for data, but people use Apple's because
00:39:26 ◼ ► it has these benefits for them as a developer. - By the way, I did hear from somebody, I don't,
00:39:31 ◼ ► I'm not an Audible subscriber, but I did hear from somebody that that was another example of
00:39:36 ◼ ► an interface change where somebody said that, and forgive me, 'cause I'm only half remembering this,
00:39:42 ◼ ► that Audible, you know, you have a subscription and it gives you credits, and I think that changed
00:39:47 ◼ ► recently as a part of this detente between Apple and Amazon where Audible, you now have a little
00:40:00 ◼ ► - You got kicked out to the web for Audible as well, but it's ridiculous. That's the bottom line,
00:40:18 ◼ ► - I know that people talk about this a lot, right? But I think we are getting to a point
00:40:22 ◼ ► where Apple needs to kind of re-justify its cut again. Like what are you getting as a developer,
00:40:29 ◼ ► as a platform partner? And I don't disagree with Apple doing these kinds of deals, right? Like
00:40:36 ◼ ► that's business for you, right? Like Amazon is a big enough company, you know, they're bigger than
00:40:43 ◼ ► the movie company me and Jason start, right? Like we're not gonna get the same deal that Amazon get,
00:40:50 ◼ ► and I have no problem with that because Amazon have been successful enough that they get to
00:40:56 ◼ ► sit at a table with Apple and talk it through and explain it and come to a deal. But I do think
00:41:02 ◼ ► in general, Apple need to maybe reevaluate things a little bit more in the same way that they did
00:41:09 ◼ ► the 30 to 15% on subscription thing, right? That was great, made a lot of people happy,
00:41:13 ◼ ► made a lot of people more money, incentivized the reason to have subscriptions over one-time
00:41:19 ◼ ► purchasing, you know, like helped people change their business models so they could have a free
00:41:24 ◼ ► app that could have a subscription, like great, that was a great move. I think we need to see a
00:41:28 ◼ ► little bit more of that again, just to continue justifying why Apple deserves the cut that it
00:41:36 ◼ ► takes because the original pitch, you know, of like we have the storefront people are going to
00:41:43 ◼ ► find your app, like that's great, we're going to help with like that, all of that stuff means less
00:41:47 ◼ ► now than it used to, I think. And so I think that, you know, with the apps being the age that it is,
00:41:53 ◼ ► it might be time to not just for larger players, but to reevaluate some of this stuff again.
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00:43:32 ◼ ► So let's continue with some upstream news. There is a new WarnerMedia CEO, Jason Keeler,
00:43:40 ◼ ► who was Hulu's first CEO. Yeah, it's just a little story, but it made me laugh because he was the
00:43:47 ◼ ► founding CEO of Hulu, which meant he was being pulled in various different directions by the
00:43:53 ◼ ► various media companies that owned Hulu. And he's had a different job for the last few years,
00:43:57 ◼ ► but he's going to be the CEO of WarnerMedia reporting up to the AT&T bosses. And I just
00:44:04 ◼ ► think it's an interesting thing and says something about maybe his skill set as a manager who was a
00:44:11 ◼ ► manager of a streaming service in its early days, that that was who they wanted in charge of all of
00:44:22 ◼ ► Quibi launches today to mixed reviews. Apparently the app itself is pretty good, nicely designed.
00:44:30 ◼ ► There's some interesting ideas in there. The content can change depending on the orientation
00:44:37 ◼ ► of your device. If you're holding it in landscape or portrait, you might see different things.
00:44:40 ◼ ► That's cool, but it feels like a gimmick to me. I don't know if I want to be moving my phone
00:44:46 ◼ ► up and down, up and down to be able to watch a TV show and see different things. Apparently there's
00:44:51 ◼ ► like a Steven Spielberg production upcoming, which will also use your GPS and the clock of your phone
00:44:57 ◼ ► to show the content differently. I don't know if I want these experiences. Maybe I could be proven
00:45:03 ◼ ► wrong, but I just don't feel like I want that. Something that was kind of funny out of some of
00:45:09 ◼ ► the reporting today that the Quibi app blocks screenshots. So it's using copyright protection.
00:45:21 ◼ ► Yeah, that's exactly what you want to be able to do. The reports on the content is that
00:45:27 ◼ ► ultimately it feels pretty cheap feeling or that it's stuff that feels like it's YouTube focused.
00:45:32 ◼ ► Yeah, that's the one that I saw is it feels like you're now paying for more YouTube videos
00:45:40 ◼ ► right? But YouTube content is considered a free thing, right? For people, you just go watch it.
00:45:47 ◼ ► And this is a shame because of the pricing. Now this wouldn't be a problem if they had a free
00:45:52 ◼ ► of ads tier. It's like, great, you know, that's YouTube. But to get their ads tier, you pay $4.99
00:45:58 ◼ ► a month. So that's kind of a bit complicated. And also they have a $7.99 a month without ads tier.
00:46:04 ◼ ► Outside of the US, you can only get the $7.99 a month option because they didn't sell ads outside
00:46:27 ◼ ► I mean in the before time, people watch video anyway on the go. Like it's not like somebody
00:46:34 ◼ ► is somewhere and thinks, oh man, I wish I could watch Netflix or YouTube or something on my phone,
00:46:56 ◼ ► thing in signing up a lot of big stars and all that kind of stuff. But I just, it just,
00:47:02 ◼ ► I'm not interested in, right? Like I wanted to maybe check this out. I was thinking about it,
00:47:08 ◼ ► but I don't want to pay for this. Like I don't want to pay more than Disney plus for this.
00:47:16 ◼ ► Which I will be paying two pounds a month more than I pay for Disney plus for the service.
00:47:25 ◼ ► I don't even want to check it out. Like I don't think I'm gonna get anything out of this content.
00:47:31 ◼ ► Like I will wait to hear of the TV show, the Quibi show, the quiblet. I don't know what they call it.
00:47:39 ◼ ► That is a must have. But like right now I'm not interested in this. The only thing that I wanted
00:47:45 ◼ ► to maybe see was Chrissy's court, which is Chrissy Teigen doing like a judge Judy type thing.
00:47:50 ◼ ► But it's not, I don't want to see it enough that I didn't want to pay seven pound 99 a month for it.
00:48:12 ◼ ► that people like that exist and yet they do. And I talked about this on TV Talk Machine last week,
00:48:22 ◼ ► super outlandish subjects. And in fact, people will watch like an eight hour long documentary if
00:48:26 ◼ ► you break it up into episodes and have cliffhangers at the end of each episode. So fair play.
00:48:34 ◼ ► Exactly. Well, that's true. There's a tiger. Stay tuned next week for more Tigers on Quibi.
00:48:58 ◼ ► I probably also would have just launched it anyway because you put so much money into it
00:49:01 ◼ ► at this point. But I think the target market for Quibi was small. And that small market
00:49:13 ◼ ► We'll see though. I'd like to prove them wrong. And Apple debuted a trailer for an Apple TV Plus
00:49:22 ◼ ► It is focusing on relationships and parenthood and conception complications. It's coming May 1st.
00:49:29 ◼ ► It looks really good. I love the trailer. It is the drive, realistic British humor that I enjoy
00:49:34 ◼ ► and that Rafe Spall is especially good at. I'm looking forward to checking this one out. It looks
00:49:39 ◼ ► good. It looks different because it's a British comedy. So it's different to the other type of
00:49:48 ◼ ► And this is Apple's worldwide content initiative, right? Like everybody gets to see this British
00:50:00 ◼ ► it looks like Camden, which is an area that I love. Like, yeah, I'm super cool. I'm super into it.
00:50:10 ◼ ► I mean, this is being covered in a lot of places. I don't know if we need to go into the exact
00:50:14 ◼ ► details, but you know, if you're working from home right now, you've, or you have kids homeschooling
00:50:26 ◼ ► video conferencing application that has risen to prominence during lockdowns around the world.
00:50:32 ◼ ► It's funny. They seem to have been perfectly positioned somehow for this. And I think not
00:50:38 ◼ ► entirely intentionally, but they, everybody seems to have leapt to Zoom and people are using Zoom.
00:50:44 ◼ ► And I was thinking about it. I was trying to explain to somebody like why Zoom in particular.
00:50:50 ◼ ► And I, you know, I think maybe the reason is that they worked really hard on this kind of
00:50:56 ◼ ► frictionless interface where unless you're the host of the meeting, you can just send somebody
00:51:02 ◼ ► a link and it just opens and they're in a meeting, right? So you don't have to, so like Skype is a
00:51:07 ◼ ► good example where the way Skype works is everybody sign up for Skype, send me your Skype account.
00:51:12 ◼ ► Now they have like a join link and stuff, but it's like, it was always the case with Skype that was
00:51:17 ◼ ► like, you need to register, you need to set up your Microsoft account. And now you can be in a
00:51:21 ◼ ► Skype call. Whereas with Zoom, you just show up and there's a teleconference. And I think that that
00:51:30 ◼ ► led plus the fact that they had a free tier that gave you 40 minutes, a 40 minute long conversation.
00:51:47 ◼ ► company was telling them to use, which in a lot of places was Zoom. So then they were like,
00:51:52 ◼ ► well, Zoom's easy and we need to have this call with the five family members. Let's just do it
00:51:57 ◼ ► over Zoom because Zoom's on every device. It's not FaceTime. I just did a Zoom call last night with
00:52:02 ◼ ► all the members of my wife's family. And we were like, you could use FaceTime and they're like,
00:52:07 ◼ ► nah, we'll use Zoom. But you literally all have Apple devices. You don't, you could just use,
00:52:11 ◼ ► like, no, we're going to use Zoom. Okay, fine. We'll use Zoom. It's fine. But it was, so it
00:52:17 ◼ ► turned out to be perfectly positioned for this. And what's come out is in our show notes, you say,
00:52:22 ◼ ► it honestly feels like there are too many reports about security issues in Zoom to even mention.
00:52:28 ◼ ► So we'll link to Glenn Fleishman's article on tidbits where he went through every single one
00:52:31 ◼ ► of them. Thanks, Glenn. This is like this really interesting thing that happens in technology media
00:52:37 ◼ ► reporting. And I am not criticizing this, like, do not get me wrong, but it's just like an interesting
00:52:41 ◼ ► thing to observe. Where like, website A publishes a thing that they found out about a security issue
00:52:48 ◼ ► or an issue with a piece of software. And then there are lots more as every other tech-focused
00:52:56 ◼ ► news outlet is trying to find this stuff or they're getting other tips. So like, it becomes
00:53:01 ◼ ► this like feed, like a beast that is being fed. Like we saw it with the Enterprise Certificate
00:53:10 ◼ ► stuff. Do you remember that? Sure. It's the steady drip, drip, drip, where somebody points something
00:53:15 ◼ ► out and then everybody else starts investigating it and they find things. And Zoom, honestly,
00:53:19 ◼ ► it's also a little bit like Zoom is very casually walking down a hallway, minding its own business,
00:53:26 ◼ ► and then a giant spotlight is placed on it and it's like, uh, and it freezes. It's like, uh.
00:53:31 ◼ ► So here's my, I mean, look, Zoom has issues. There's no doubt about it. I don't have a lot
00:53:38 ◼ ► of time for people who want to say that Zoom is evil like Facebook, because I don't think they
00:53:46 ◼ ► are. I think they're just, and I wouldn't say incompetent, but I would say that they are a
00:53:51 ◼ ► startup who was really focused on adding features so that they could serve customers and close deals
00:53:57 ◼ ► and get more money and get more customers and continue growing because they're a startup and
00:54:03 ◼ ► was a lot less focused on all the things that involve security and limits to their system.
00:54:10 ◼ ► Cause they're like, yeah, but who's going to do that? It's not a big deal. This is enterprise
00:54:13 ◼ ► software. People aren't going to be like Zoom bombing the idea that people can just kind of like
00:54:17 ◼ ► come up with codes and appear in random video conferences. And it's, and it's really bad. And
00:54:24 ◼ ► they've actually had to change their, uh, their security. Like now by default, you, you have to,
00:54:30 ◼ ► as the starter of a meeting, you have to look at a list and admit people to a meeting. Or, or you,
00:54:36 ◼ ► Glenn's suggestion is you look through the list, kick out the people you don't know, and then do
00:54:40 ◼ ► an admit all to everybody. But like they, but in the early days, right? Like they were, they were
00:54:46 ◼ ► just not focused on it. They were moving as fast as they could. And, uh, and it led to a lot of bad
00:54:52 ◼ ► practices. There's no doubt about it. And I'm not really defending that. I'm just trying to
00:54:55 ◼ ► understand it. Like, you know, why did, why did the Zoom installer on the Mac install all the things
00:55:01 ◼ ► in the preflight? And then when you click the install button, nothing happens because it's
00:55:05 ◼ ► already installed itself. Well, you know what? I don't think that's them being evil. I think that
00:55:09 ◼ ► that is a developer who made a mistake and either nobody noticed or nobody cared. And I think a lot
00:55:14 ◼ ► of it is nobody cared because, and I would imagine there are developers at Zoom given the speed at
00:55:20 ◼ ► which they've implemented some of these fixes. I think there are developers and maybe even product
00:55:24 ◼ ► managers at Zoom who knew all about these flaws and were like, can we, cause I've been there folks,
00:55:30 ◼ ► I've been there. Can we fix these flaws? Can we get development resources to fix these flaws? And
00:55:36 ◼ ► then somebody up the chain says, no, build the new feature. That's going to get us this $4 million
00:55:41 ◼ ► contract. Do that instead. And they just sit there. And then the spotlight gets switched on
00:55:47 ◼ ► and Zoom's like, uh, uh, don't look over there. That is what basically has happened. I think here.
00:55:57 ◼ ► And I think that their response really is about as good as a response can be in the situation that
00:56:03 ◼ ► they found themselves in where they did get there. Yep. You know, Pope, but he's not effect. Uh,
00:56:12 ◼ ► yeah, they got there. The entire expertise of this company is not to be in that big a spotlight,
00:56:18 ◼ ► right? Like none of them are good at it. None of them were, were got to where they were because
00:56:23 ◼ ► they were good at it. And the final response was, yeah, we, you're right. We, we like, like the,
00:56:30 ◼ ► the ad tagging, like the ad tagging on their website where it's like, their privacy policy
00:56:35 ◼ ► is like a marketing privacy policy. And it's like, we can sell all your information. And somebody
00:56:39 ◼ ► who's a privacy person calls them on it and says, why do you, why are you reselling your customer
00:56:43 ◼ ► information? You're a, you're a subscription based company. You're not even an advertising company.
00:56:47 ◼ ► And their response was something like, Oh yeah, we just, and you really get the sense that whoever
00:56:52 ◼ ► put up the privacy policy, yeah, yeah. They ripped a privacy policy from somewhere and posted it
00:56:58 ◼ ► because they knew they needed to have one. And that is that dumb? Yes, it is. Do I understand
00:57:02 ◼ ► how that would happen in a, in an organization that is moving quickly and has priorities that
00:57:06 ◼ ► are not the priorities of tightening every screw down because they're a startup? Yes, I do. And
00:57:12 ◼ ► that privacy policy has been in place for four years and not one user or person at Zoom has read
00:57:17 ◼ ► it until someone wanted to read it to find something. So not excusing bad practices, but this
00:57:23 ◼ ► is how this stuff happens. You are focusing on pushing forward, always building your company
00:57:30 ◼ ► forward, forward, forward, and you just let things go. And honestly, if you're the kind of person who
00:57:34 ◼ ► says, you know, we need to really, we need to sweep up behind us and we need to tighten all the screws
00:57:38 ◼ ► on these things and we need to go back and fix these little bugs. I mean, look at Apple, right?
00:57:42 ◼ ► How many stories do we have about bugs that get introduced in a version of Mac OS or iOS, and they
00:57:49 ◼ ► never get fixed? All the new features keep coming in, but they never go back and fix a lot of these
00:57:54 ◼ ► little bugs. It's because that company is not providing developers and product managers incentive
00:57:59 ◼ ► to fix little bugs. Their incentives are all about making new features. And this is a, this is a
00:58:04 ◼ ► problem. So Zoom's privacy policy, like, is Zoom really planning on being a gross company that
00:58:09 ◼ ► resells all of its customer data when you come to their website? No, they're just dumb and they
00:58:14 ◼ ► used a dumb privacy policy and you can see it because the moment it gets pointed out, they're
00:58:17 ◼ ► like, oh God, no, oh, let's change it, right? Like, so, so again, there are, is Zoom a badly
00:58:24 ◼ ► run company? Kind of, but in a, in a really boring way that most, I would say, companies,
00:58:31 ◼ ► especially startups, are badly run, which is they prioritized growth and didn't realize what, like
00:58:38 ◼ ► the rest of us, exactly what was around the corner, which was this level of scrutiny. And I will also
00:58:44 ◼ ► say they, it has taken them a while to do the right thing, but they've generally come around to
00:58:50 ◼ ► realizing that, that it is the right thing in a way that is refreshing because it's not something
00:58:55 ◼ ► that Facebook ever did. Yes, you have to, like, I get that these things can be criticized when you
00:59:00 ◼ ► find out about them. You can criticize the way that they respond, but if a company ultimately
00:59:05 ◼ ► comes around to doing what is recommended or what people suggest, that needs to be like,
00:59:10 ◼ ► not necessarily applauded, but recognized because these days technology companies, big technology
00:59:15 ◼ ► companies, and Zoom went from 10 million daily users to 200 million daily users. They're a
00:59:28 ◼ ► don't do what you want them to do. Zoom is in the crucible right now. They are in the crucible and
00:59:33 ◼ ► two things can happen. They can either come out of it better for it, or they can burn up. Those are
00:59:40 ◼ ► the sort of two things that can happen. And I think they're going to come out of it better for
00:59:44 ◼ ► it. I think that they're going to, despite all of these complaints about Zoom bombing and privacy
00:59:49 ◼ ► issues and bad technology practices, their business at the end is going to be way larger
00:59:54 ◼ ► than it was going in. But I also think it will be way more focused on these customer issues,
01:00:03 ◼ ► because they've had to focus on them. And that has given a little more cred to the people inside,
01:00:08 ◼ ► presumably, who can say, "We need to do this the right way. You saw what happened when we did it
01:00:13 ◼ ► the wrong way. Let's do it the right way now." And I think there'll be a better product and service
01:00:23 ◼ ► I mean, they had to learn it the hard way. But honestly, I think a lot of times that's exactly
01:00:26 ◼ ► what happens to companies is they go along, and then they get called on it. And then you find out
01:00:32 ◼ ► what they're made of when they get called on it. And a lot of times you get, honestly, Zoom's
01:00:39 ◼ ► response is not that different from the responses of all sorts of people to the COVID-19 crisis,
01:00:44 ◼ ► where you start by kind of bargaining and you're like, "Well, all right, maybe we'll change a little
01:00:49 ◼ ► bit and maybe we'll do this little minor thing." And then you have that moment where you go, "Oh,
01:00:53 ◼ ► no. No, no, this is huge. I need to just stop right now." And that's, I think, what Zoom has
01:00:58 ◼ ► basically done is they're like, "Well, there's a little thing." And then they finally seem to have
01:01:01 ◼ ► had that moment where they're like, "You're right. This is really bad. We're not going to..."
01:01:05 ◼ ► I mean, the fact that it's such a big deal in the text of like, "We're going to stop implementing
01:01:10 ◼ ► new features, and we're going to focus on fixing all of our security and privacy problems," it's
01:01:14 ◼ ► like, "Well, you guys were still working on new features? Don't do that. Don't do that. Capacity,
01:01:21 ◼ ► stability, and fixing all your really bad privacy and security bugs, let's do that now. Right now,
01:01:28 ◼ ► let's focus on that." And they got there. It took them a while, but they got there, again,
01:01:32 ◼ ► in a way that some of these tech companies don't get there because it turns out that they
01:01:38 ◼ ► do actually intend... They either intended to be evil all along or they found out how profitable
01:01:44 ◼ ► being evil was. And they're like, "No, I really just want to do that now." And I don't think Zoom
01:01:49 ◼ ► is at that point. So I think, you know, are there... And here's the other thing. Are there
01:01:53 ◼ ► alternatives to Zoom? Yes, there are. Google Hangouts, FaceTime, Skype. Yeah, they're all
01:01:57 ◼ ► going to have different trade-offs, but there are advantages to them. You don't have to use Zoom.
01:02:02 ◼ ► I would argue that just like getting mad at an airline or a cable company or a cell phone company,
01:02:08 ◼ ► you're really probably just trading one set of issues for another. But if, you know, the beauty
01:02:14 ◼ ► of the way Zoom is built is I believe you can just use a web browser and not even install their app
01:02:19 ◼ ► and still get into their conferences if you're not the host. So, you know, I've been using Zoom
01:02:25 ◼ ► for a while now because it has a very particular feature that is extremely helpful to me as a
01:02:30 ◼ ► podcast host and editor, but it is so esoteric that, you know, my need for it is not the need
01:02:38 ◼ ► that anybody else who's not a podcast host and editor has a need for. What is your need?
01:02:43 ◼ ► Just to... Yeah, because people ask about this. Zoom will let you do a recording of your call.
01:02:48 ◼ ► Well, most places will do that, but Zoom will let you choose to record it locally and not up
01:02:52 ◼ ► in the cloud. And one of the options is record everybody's voices on separate tracks. And what
01:02:58 ◼ ► that means is I walk away from a Zoom call with a track for every single person who was on the
01:03:05 ◼ ► podcast separate from all the other voices. Now, I have them all record their voice on their own
01:03:12 ◼ ► computer, but sometimes, and that's the highest quality possible, sometimes the recordings fail.
01:03:17 ◼ ► And it used to be when I used Skype that if that recording failed, I had to take my recording of
01:03:26 ◼ ► like everybody talking at once and like cut out the parts where they made noise and put that in
01:03:31 ◼ ► and cut out all the other people's voices from where they're talking because they're talking
01:03:36 ◼ ► on their microphone and on that track. It was a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And now I just
01:03:41 ◼ ► sub in the Zoom version of their voice and I got it. And that work goes away. So that's the
01:03:46 ◼ ► reason I use it, but that's 0.0001% of Zooms and we keep adding zeros as this crisis continues.
01:03:54 ◼ ► So, you know, there are alternatives out there. I just want to say like switching to some other
01:04:00 ◼ ► thing is no guarantee that they do not also have privacy, security, and ease of use problems
01:04:06 ◼ ► because Zoom very clearly prioritized ease of use over security and it's biting them now,
01:04:12 ◼ ► but it's also the reason that they're being used by so many people is it's fairly easy to
01:04:22 ◼ ► Update. I recently subscribed to the Daily Update podcast and it's very good. So this is like Ben's
01:04:28 ◼ ► daily update, which you've probably heard of for a while, there's an email newsletter and now there's
01:04:31 ◼ ► a podcast version, which is great for someone like me who doesn't like to read very much.
01:04:34 ◼ ► And what Ben ended up recommending was that Zoom take like 90 days to focus on privacy.
01:04:41 ◼ ► That's exactly what Zoom is doing now, which is, I don't know if they took his advice or if they
01:04:48 ◼ ► just came to the same kind of result, but that's what Zoom is up to now. They are just pausing all
01:04:55 ◼ ► feature development, focusing on a security overhaul. So that's Zoom. Can't get away from it.
01:05:03 ◼ ► I had a Zoom call today. I have two tomorrow. Everyone wants to use Zoom now. It's kind of funny
01:05:08 ◼ ► to me, Jason, like I used to do just video, like just calls, just phone calls, but now I'm having
01:05:13 ◼ ► video calls with the same people. So we didn't video call before. Why do we do video call now?
01:05:18 ◼ ► It's fun. We can do this now. Yeah. I mean, I still get hangouts requests because Google
01:05:23 ◼ ► hangouts still exists, even though they keep trying to kill it. And Skype definitely. But Zoom,
01:05:30 ◼ ► you know, I think there's also the truth that once it's a tool in your arsenal, you want to apply it
01:05:34 ◼ ► to everything. And some of this might fall away as being like, yeah, I don't need to do that. Or it
01:05:41 ◼ ► may just be like, oh, I got it. Let's just use it. Like it's also everybody's inside and seeing
01:05:52 ◼ ► interesting question about FaceTime. Like group FaceTime should be like my, like I said, my wife's
01:06:03 ◼ ► family and I should have used FaceTime last night, but we didn't. And I think it's because the
01:06:10 ◼ ► perception is it's complicated. People don't know how to use it. And it's got the weird like bubbles
01:06:14 ◼ ► and stuff that float around. Whereas Zoom is just a grid and like the bubbles are whimsical, but I
01:06:19 ◼ ► think they're bad. So saying about that, I have, I have been pondering this idea, something I want
01:06:26 ◼ ► to talk to you about, which we'll do after this break, where we talk about our friends over at
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01:07:50 ◼ ► So I've been rolling this idea around in my head, which I'm kind of referring to as a big question,
01:07:58 ◼ ► which is how will COVID-19 change consumer technology? And I've been thinking about this
01:08:04 ◼ ► just in general that like I would like to maybe try and do this stuff more if people like it,
01:08:07 ◼ ► of less something that is focused on like what happened this week, which is typically what we
01:08:12 ◼ ► talk about on the show, but more kind of like bigger questions about technology. So, Rip,
01:08:18 ◼ ► the reason I've been thinking of this is like the way that people are working right now is different
01:08:23 ◼ ► to how they've worked before and at large scale, right? People have been working from home, working
01:08:29 ◼ ► from home in technology for years, decades maybe even, but the idea of "no, everyone" is different,
01:08:38 ◼ ► right? And it's going to unearth a few different types of ideas in the way that people are used to
01:08:46 ◼ ► working. Therefore, the way that technology enables us in our lives and when all the big
01:08:52 ◼ ► technology companies are forced to face these issues, they may see things that other people
01:08:57 ◼ ► have been seeing for a while. So there is that whole stream, but the first stream that was
01:09:01 ◼ ► interesting to me was how COVID-19 may change the way that we interact with our devices on a daily
01:09:10 ◼ ► basis. And one that I've been thinking about is how good is Face ID if we're all wearing face masks?
01:09:16 ◼ ► So this is a thing that's come up in Asia for a long time and was apparently a contributing factor
01:09:34 ◼ ► obscured when they're outside of the home, Face ID is so much worse than Touch ID because you
01:09:42 ◼ ► can't unlock your phone. Now, depending on where you live in the world right now, people are being
01:09:47 ◼ ► told to wear face masks or not, but it seems like the general consensus is moving to if you go
01:09:52 ◼ ► outside, cover your face somehow, right? Leave the medical grade face masks to people in the medical
01:09:59 ◼ ► profession, but maybe wear something, right? So does that mean that if the now the Western world
01:10:08 ◼ ► may be moving into using face masks more? Because if we're living with this in some form for a
01:10:14 ◼ ► couple of years, which is possible, will we get used to wearing face masks? Will that just become
01:10:21 ◼ ► a thing in Europe and in America like it has in some places in Asia? And if that's the case,
01:10:27 ◼ ► do we want Face ID or do we want Touch ID again? Yeah, I wonder about this, although I have heard
01:10:35 ◼ ► from people who talk about like the problem. There are issues with Touch ID too, right? Like if you're
01:10:40 ◼ ► wearing gloves, including if you're wearing gloves to protect yourself from stuff that you would
01:10:47 ◼ ► touch, right? Like whether it's cold or medical reasons, you can't do Touch ID. So there are
01:10:58 ◼ ► issues with all of these biometric things, but I think you're right that if Face ID becomes
01:11:05 ◼ ► an even greater liability in more places for more people and your Apple, you have to start to think
01:11:12 ◼ ► like what some of the Android phone makers have done, which is to say, "I want face unlock and I
01:11:20 ◼ ► want touch unlock." I've also heard a bunch of people who've said they've made their password
01:11:25 ◼ ► simpler on their iPhone because they now have to enter it. And that's like, I've got an
01:11:31 ◼ ► alphanumeric passcode on my iPhone. And if I'm out and about wearing a mask all the time,
01:11:46 ◼ ► Apple Watch unlock for your iPhone or something like that. Like once you unlock your Apple Watch
01:11:51 ◼ ► and your iPhone and it stays on your wrist, then maybe your iPhone can unlock more easily. But
01:12:03 ◼ ► as we've talked about, it takes years for Apple to change the philosophy on some of this stuff.
01:12:08 ◼ ► But it would be, I think it's worth thinking about that if this, we'll see what happens culturally,
01:12:15 ◼ ► but it's hard to believe that there won't be at least more mask wearing than there used to be.
01:12:19 ◼ ► So then as well, I'm wondering about cameras in devices because we're all using cameras,
01:12:30 ◼ ► our front facing cameras more for video calling, right? Whether we're on a Mac to do a work call,
01:12:36 ◼ ► on an iPad to speak to your friends or your family, your iPhone to speak to your parents,
01:12:41 ◼ ► your grandparents. So we're doing more video calling. So should front facing cameras be
01:12:46 ◼ ► better? Will we see that? I think we will. At the moment I have on my iMac Pro a Logitech external
01:12:53 ◼ ► camera because the camera in my iMac Pro is really, really bad. And I have this Logitech
01:12:59 ◼ ► camera. I've had it for a while when I was doing streaming for, well, whenever I do game streaming
01:13:06 ◼ ► stuff, I want to have my camera on it. And this 1080p webcam from Logitech is much better looking
01:13:12 ◼ ► than the one in my iMac Pro. So I've just plugged that one in now. And I think probably quite a lot
01:13:17 ◼ ► of people are doing stuff like that because the cameras, especially in Macs, they suck.
01:13:31 ◼ ► Whether it is or it isn't, this Logitech one is much better, right? It might be 1080, but
01:13:37 ◼ ► the lens is bigger, right? Like it's a dedicated product. My five-year-old whatever USB Logitech
01:13:42 ◼ ► camera is still better than what is in my iMac Pro. I think you're right. I think that prior,
01:13:47 ◼ ► if everybody's doing video stuff, prioritizing video cameras, especially like on computers,
01:13:53 ◼ ► it's certainly been the case. It feels like that, you know, some devices have really nice cameras
01:13:58 ◼ ► and others don't. But like if you're doing a long conference call, you're probably not holding your
01:14:02 ◼ ► phone and doing that or even holding an iPad. You're probably doing it on a laptop or something
01:14:08 ◼ ► like that. I think for a lot of this stuff. And Apple's laptop webcams are bad. They're just
01:14:13 ◼ ► not very good. That has not been a priority for them. So I do wonder about that. I also wonder
01:14:18 ◼ ► about, in general, upgrading that technology to have more kind of machine intelligence. You know,
01:14:25 ◼ ► there are those webcams that are out there where they will do face tracking and stuff like that. So
01:14:30 ◼ ► if you move around a little bit, it'll adjust the frame based on where you are. Like you get a wide
01:14:34 ◼ ► angle shot and then it will kind of intelligently frame and move and things like that. And Apple
01:14:41 ◼ ► could do more stuff like that too, if it wanted to, but it hasn't been a priority. And I do think
01:14:46 ◼ ► that that may be something that changes. And let's talk about like we talked the 16-inch MacBook Pro
01:14:52 ◼ ► and the new iPad Pros. They've got their, you know, six, whatever it is, microphone array,
01:14:59 ◼ ► and 16-inch MacBook Pro is the studio quality microphones and all that. Apple was already on
01:15:05 ◼ ► that, but I think that's a real win for them because having your existing microphone device be
01:15:11 ◼ ► better and sound better is, you know, something that they're already headed toward. And it's
01:15:18 ◼ ► important. Like you don't want to sound like you're at the bottom of a well if you're in a Zoom
01:15:21 ◼ ► meeting or whatever, or a Slack meeting on audio. You know, you don't want to sound bad. You don't
01:15:27 ◼ ► want to not be able to hear someone, right? Like if you're doing over speakers, like all of that
01:15:31 ◼ ► stuff is important. And I think that we're going to see like a continued push on this stuff because
01:15:37 ◼ ► people are having to use these devices more frequently. Like, as I say, there are a lot of
01:15:42 ◼ ► people that are doing this every day, but not necessarily the people that make the computers
01:15:47 ◼ ► are doing this or have been doing this. Yeah. Well, yeah, this is that famous story that I love
01:15:53 ◼ ► about how Apple Mail was really, really bad on slow connections. And I discovered that when I
01:15:59 ◼ ► was on a cruise ship, like 10 years ago, that like Apple Mail wants to sync all your mailboxes and
01:16:04 ◼ ► it just uses huge amounts of data. And then they started doing Wi-Fi on airplanes. That became a
01:16:11 ◼ ► very popular thing and that was a slow connection. And the next release of macOS was much better
01:16:22 ◼ ► all the people who wrote the software and the executives who used it, all of a sudden found
01:16:31 ◼ ► completely inappropriate for that. And so they fixed it. Like that just happens. Like if you
01:16:36 ◼ ► don't live it, we could talk about maps, right? Like the maps, Apple Maps is really great in the
01:16:40 ◼ ► Bay Area, but it's not necessarily very good in lots of other places and you get a skewed
01:16:47 ◼ ► perception of it. So I think you're right that this is one of those things that we're going to
01:16:52 ◼ ► see. This is a good example, but there are others like we're going to see collaboration,
01:16:58 ◼ ► communication apps and also hardware that's used in them get better in the next few years
01:17:06 ◼ ► because the people who make that stuff are currently dealing with whatever today's state
01:17:18 ◼ ► Matt>> Yeah, when it comes to apps and services, the thing that's interesting to me is like the
01:17:23 ◼ ► hardware is coming from your existing hardware makers, but apps and services can come from
01:17:27 ◼ ► anywhere, you know? So like, you know, something like Slack is born out of... wasn't Slack...
01:17:33 ◼ ► it was... there was the company behind Slack was building a video game and then they built a
01:17:39 ◼ ► communication tool to talk about the game that they were making. The game didn't end up going
01:17:44 ◼ ► anywhere, but they realized that they had stumbled into a better communication tool. I think that's
01:17:48 ◼ ► Slack's origin story. So these types of software solutions can come out of weird places and I would
01:17:56 ◼ ► expect that we see a lot of startups over the next couple of years coming in to try and save
01:18:05 ◼ ► or fix X, right? Like I think the company behind Basecamp is building an email replacement tool,
01:18:20 ◼ ► Yeah, it's doing this, but this is, you know, that will come at a time when people have realized...
01:18:25 ◼ ► have been using email too much or using Slack too much to communicate and they're like,
01:18:30 ◼ ► "Oh, I'm frustrated with this tool. I wished it was better." You know, Slack is kind of funny now that
01:18:35 ◼ ► like Slack has now become the establishment. So people want to build Slack replacements when
01:18:40 ◼ ► Slack was to replace email. But what we've all realized is Slack is great for team communication.
01:18:46 ◼ ► It did not replace email, right? It doesn't... email continues. So now people are still trying
01:18:52 ◼ ► to build better tools for that. But this is like a big area like communication and collaboration.
01:19:00 ◼ ► - Also, users, you know, the users who have built... these products have been built around users
01:19:07 ◼ ► who are traveling or organizations that have multiple centers of work or people who work from
01:19:14 ◼ ► home. But now there's this whole new set of users because now it's like whole businesses that are
01:19:19 ◼ ► moving remote. And even the existing companies are going to learn things about the needs of
01:19:26 ◼ ► these organizations. Because I do think there will be more virtual organizations in the future
01:19:30 ◼ ► because I do think some companies are going to look at this and go, "Why are we paying for
01:19:41 ◼ ► - Right. Right. And again, there are good and bad things about that, but I do think that will happen.
01:19:49 ◼ ► now because people are more comfortable with it as a concept. Because, you know, I worked with
01:19:54 ◼ ► lots of people who... I mean, there were CEOs that I worked with who, you know, they didn't want
01:20:01 ◼ ► people working from home because they wanted to be able to walk through the office once a day
01:20:06 ◼ ► and see a busy office. It had no basis in reality of how we worked, but they wanted to see it.
01:20:12 ◼ ► I think that people are going to have their attitudes changed a little bit. Also, though,
01:20:18 ◼ ► I think users, because there are these different users of these services than were there before,
01:20:23 ◼ ► the users are going to try things and the services are going to see them trying things,
01:20:27 ◼ ► and that's going to change the game too. So an example would be, like, we take for granted
01:20:32 ◼ ► things like Slack and Dropbox, right? And Google Docs. They've been around a long time.
01:20:40 ◼ ► But I know not in our listenership necessarily, but, like, I know other people who are not tech
01:20:48 ◼ ► savvy. And let me tell you, there are a lot of people who are using Dropbox to exchange files
01:20:53 ◼ ► for the first time. There are a lot of people using Google Docs to collaborate on documents
01:20:57 ◼ ► for the first time. There are lots of people using Slack to talk to their colleagues for the first
01:21:04 ◼ ► time, and that's going to not only, yes, drive usage of those tools, but it's going to change
01:21:09 ◼ ► how they get built and change how people work because they're more aware of them. But also,
01:21:16 ◼ ► I think that things are going to come up and they're going to be like, "Why does Dropbox
01:21:19 ◼ ► do this?" And I think Dropbox will learn things and Slack will learn things, and that will feed
01:21:23 ◼ ► into it too. So I would imagine that there were enough people out there that communication
01:21:29 ◼ ► collaboration systems were already a big business, but so we primed the pump. But now here's
01:21:39 ◼ ► everybody else, and everybody else is going to have different issues, and it's going to build
01:21:44 ◼ ► a bigger business for those companies, but a different business too. And I think that will
01:21:51 ◼ ► push them in different ways. Because I think Google Docs and Dropbox both seem so basic to us,
01:22:03 ◼ ► Fireball from Joshua Topolsky that was basically, "Thank God for the internet." I was thinking about
01:22:07 ◼ ► that too. I know we're all isolated, but we have the internet to connect us. And for business,
01:22:12 ◼ ► it's such a great example. Businesses can still run, not all of them, but a lot of businesses can
01:22:18 ◼ ► still operate entirely because of the internet and because of these collaboration tools. So
01:22:23 ◼ ► that part, I'm fascinated by what the end result of that will be. But at the very least, you've got
01:22:30 ◼ ► people using collaboration tools who never thought of them before. Which is kind of awesome, isn't it?
01:22:35 ◼ ► I think so. As a user of those collaboration tools, this is one of those things where the
01:22:43 ◼ ► rest of the world is seeing things that you and I have been working with for a while now.
01:22:47 ◼ ► And I think that's cool. And there will be good and bad about it. I talked to somebody who is
01:22:54 ◼ ► related to—I'm going to be very vague—who is related to somebody I know. I'm the computer guy.
01:23:07 ◼ ► Slack. And it was like, "What shouldn't go in Slack?" And I said, "Well, if you've got things
01:23:15 ◼ ► that you want to say to your colleagues that you don't want the boss to see, don't put them in
01:23:23 ◼ ► Slack." Do that as a—send an iMessage or something. People are going to have to learn stuff like that,
01:23:36 ◼ ► This is that fun thing where it's like, "You will be told, so everyone is told if the archive
01:23:45 ◼ ► Yeah. So it's stuff like that that people are going to learn, too. But I think it's great.
01:23:51 ◼ ► And the scrutiny—to pull back to Zoom for a second—scrutiny by people who are not the
01:24:04 ◼ ► reveal faults, whether they're usability issues or blind spots in the product where they never
01:24:11 ◼ ► realized that that was a thing people would want to do until now, or pure security failings like
01:24:18 ◼ ► what Zoom has dealt with. So much of that is going to come out. And I do believe—because I
01:24:24 ◼ ► am an optimist—I do believe that these products will be better for it in the long run because
01:24:28 ◼ ► they will have been put through the ringer. But in the short run, people are going to bash their
01:24:32 ◼ ► heads against parts of these products and be like, "Why does it do it this way?" And the answer is
01:24:36 ◼ ► going to be something that's not uncommon when you talk about products from big tech companies,
01:24:41 ◼ ► which is, "Uh, we didn't ever think of that." It's like, "Oh, yeah, well, you got new users now,
01:24:57 ◼ ► what do you want us to talk about? Just something I'm playing around with. Because, again, it's like
01:25:02 ◼ ► we've spoken about this before. It's like, how will COVID-19 change your technology podcasts?
01:25:06 ◼ ► Well, at some point, the news might stop, and we want to continue to entertain you. So this is one
01:25:11 ◼ ► way that I hope that we can do it. Couple of pieces of news before we do #AskUPGRADE. It is
01:25:22 ◼ ► You sure can. Apple acquired the weather app and service, Dark Sky, and is slowly going to be
01:25:28 ◼ ► shutting down the application and some platforms on Android, and the API is being shut down as well.
01:25:43 ◼ ► I like that Apple is looking at a third-party app and service and saying, "Why don't we have that?"
01:25:51 ◼ ► They have their own weather source that they buy for their weather app. Dark Sky goes way beyond
01:25:56 ◼ ► what is available or being used by Apple. So I can see from that perspective. I can also see
01:26:03 ◼ ► from the perspective of potentially letting other weather apps on their platforms have access to the
01:26:10 ◼ ► API exclusively so it makes weather better on Apple platforms. I mean, they're shutting it off for
01:26:18 ◼ ► Android. So I think it's just one of those cases where Apple could choose to build a better weather
01:26:25 ◼ ► app, but they're going to have to go through all the trouble of building a better app and making
01:26:28 ◼ ► deals with a bunch of data sources and building out this whole backend infrastructure, or they
01:26:33 ◼ ► could just buy Dark Sky, who already did it. And it makes sense to me. And it stinks if you're
01:26:41 ◼ ► somebody who relies on their data and are on Android, but I think it makes sense and is smart
01:26:48 ◼ ► from Apple's perspective. Apple have bought an AI app called Voices to boost natural language
01:26:55 ◼ ► processing for Siri. The company focuses on creative voice technology to help narrow down
01:27:01 ◼ ► searches for shopping items. So for example, there was an example given in the Bloomberg
01:27:06 ◼ ► article that was reporting on this saying that you would, for example, say I need a new LED TV
01:27:11 ◼ ► and my budget is $1,000 and the assistant would be able to provide a result for that. So it's
01:27:16 ◼ ► doing a lot of language processing to help narrow search queries. Apparently, the tech that this
01:27:23 ◼ ► company has built can be squeezed down to 25 megabytes and put on a device. So it seems to
01:27:31 ◼ ► be pretty powerful natural language processing that can be shrunk down and put onto devices.
01:27:38 ◼ ► This is the thing that Google talks about and tries to do a lot, that they want to shrink down
01:27:42 ◼ ► the assistant and put it on phones, and they do that on Pixel phones so that the processing is
01:27:46 ◼ ► faster. So that's one. Do you have anything extra on that? It's interesting. I'm pleased to see that
01:27:52 ◼ ► they're trying to do more to make Siri's comprehension better. That's what I was going to
01:27:56 ◼ ► say is I think we can all agree that spending money to get technology to make Siri work better
01:28:01 ◼ ► is good. Yeah, we all want to see that, right? You love to see it. And they're also rumored to
01:28:14 ◼ ► So they're most popular for filming sporting events so you can watch them at home on your VR
01:28:19 ◼ ► headset. Sounds super weird, right? Why would Apple want this company? I'm familiar with them.
01:28:26 ◼ ► They do this with wrestling events and stuff. They'll put cameras on the posts, the ring posts,
01:28:32 ◼ ► and you can watch. It's very strange, but it's a thing. Turns out NextVR holds a large series
01:28:38 ◼ ► of patents around virtual reality streaming. So their patent portfolio could potentially be
01:28:44 ◼ ► of interest for any company that wants to be involved in virtual reality. So maybe that's more
01:28:51 ◼ ► than Apple wants to do VR streaming of basketball games. That would be peculiar, but if they hold
01:28:59 ◼ ► patents for streaming of virtual reality, that might be a thing that you might want to own going
01:29:05 ◼ ► into the future. I hear that Tim is bullish on AR, but maybe VR too. Who knows? Yeah, I mean,
01:29:13 ◼ ► it's not wild to imagine that any kind of virtual reality stuff could also be AR-based. These things
01:29:22 ◼ ► can go together, you know? But I think Apple have made some moves into VR. We've seen it, right?
01:29:29 ◼ ► Remember when they had that demo at WWDC with the Darth Vader thing a few years ago? They want to do
01:29:36 ◼ ► it and every company's looking at it at least in case it is that next frontier. All right, let's
01:29:41 ◼ ► finish up the show. As we always do with some #AskUpgradeQuestions. But before we do that, let
01:29:46 ◼ ► me thank our final sponsor today, Squarespace. You can make your next move with Squarespace. They
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01:30:45 ◼ ► this week, Jason, Myke Hurley has been podcasting for 10 years and my first podcast website was
01:30:52 ◼ ► built on Squarespace. So I know now that I have been using Squarespace for 10 years to build my
01:30:59 ◼ ► own websites and I continue to today. So I have a website called thethemesystem.com and I built
01:31:05 ◼ ► it on Squarespace for a project that me and Grey have been working on on Cortex. So it's super easy
01:31:11 ◼ ► to do. I go to Squarespace because I don't know how to build websites, don't want to learn but I
01:31:16 ◼ ► can use Squarespace because it's super simple to do. So you can go and sign up for a trial today
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01:31:32 ◼ ► first purchase of the website or domain and show your support for this show by using the offer code
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01:31:42 ◼ ► Our thanks to Squarespace for their continued support of this show, Real AFM and for helping
01:31:52 ◼ ► make your next website. That does mean as well that Squarespace have been sponsoring my shows
01:31:56 ◼ ► pretty much every week for like eight or nine years now at this point. So I love you Squarespace.
01:32:00 ◼ ► Thank you. #askupgrade. First question comes from Greg and Greg wants to know is it possible in
01:32:08 ◼ ► Mac OS to have a folder in the dock with apps in it like you can on iPad OS? Sure, although I
01:32:16 ◼ ► generally don't recommend that you take apps out of the applications folder. That's the problem
01:32:20 ◼ ► isn't it? So you make a folder and you make aliases of those apps in that folder and put that folder
01:32:25 ◼ ► in the dock and then you got it. You could do the launchpad thing right but that's not anything
01:32:29 ◼ ► that's what you want to do right because that's every app then. Yeah you don't want to live in
01:32:34 ◼ ► the dock you don't want to do that but like in your documents folder or something make a
01:32:38 ◼ ► folder for your stuff and then you do it's command option drag I think will make an alias just direct
01:32:50 ◼ ► command option drag the apps into that folder and then you drag that I'm doing it right now in fact
01:32:55 ◼ ► and then you drag that folder into your dock and look you got a bunch of apps that pop up and you
01:33:02 ◼ ► can have it be one of those little stacks or however you want to view it and and then you
01:33:06 ◼ ► click on them and they launch. So that's the way to do it I would say is aliases keep it clean.
01:33:11 ◼ ► I like this question because from Greg because I like the idea of a Mac feature that went to
01:33:19 ◼ ► the iPad and now wanting to replicate an iPad function on the Mac feature which is the dock
01:33:25 ◼ ► back on Mac OS. I just like that back to the Mac nature of it all. Casper says Myke what about using
01:33:32 ◼ ► a Mac mini as a recording Mac it's not as portable as a laptop but you're adding a monitoring keyboard
01:33:37 ◼ ► anyway so just a bit of context in case you're not familiar with this. When I'm allowed to go back to my
01:33:42 ◼ ► studio I wanted to have separate computers so when I'm able to get that set up so I would be having
01:33:48 ◼ ► my iMac Pro to do all my editing and heavy work on and then I want to record on a separate desk which
01:33:55 ◼ ► is more sound isolated and use this different computer for that and I planned on using a laptop
01:34:00 ◼ ► for it. Now I understand the idea of a Mac mini because I'm going to have a keyboard, mouse and
01:34:06 ◼ ► monitor anyway so why not use a Mac mini so it'd be a permanent system and it can maybe have a bit
01:34:11 ◼ ► more power in it but one of the reasons I want to use a laptop for this is so then when I travel
01:34:16 ◼ ► I take the same machine that I'm recording on all the time that is set up for recording I take that
01:34:22 ◼ ► machine with me. That is my thinking who knows how this will play out if it ever plays out
01:34:28 ◼ ► but that's that's kind of the route that I'm going with is wanting to replace to a laptop
01:34:35 ◼ ► and I am thinking now Jason still that MacBook Air is probably the right move for me I think
01:34:41 ◼ ► just like price power wise I think that's that's what I'm going to be looking at but not anytime
01:34:46 ◼ ► soon. Seth asks my family is on a shared account in settings and Bluetooth all of my kids AirPods
01:34:55 ◼ ► and Beats headphones and mine are in there I don't want them in there when I click remove it says it
01:35:00 ◼ ► will remove all the devices on a shared iCloud account any advice? Seth you need to move to an
01:35:05 ◼ ► iCloud family. Yep that's it I know you don't want to hear it but Apple is very strict on this now
01:35:11 ◼ ► they don't they're not interested in building features that make it easy or convenient for
01:35:17 ◼ ► you to put every device in your entire family on one Apple ID they want you to have different
01:35:23 ◼ ► Apple IDs for the different people and have them be in a family and if that doesn't work for you
01:35:28 ◼ ► then you're just going to have to deal with having all those devices in your Bluetooth menu
01:35:31 ◼ ► but that what Apple wants you to do is create you know for your kids you create kids Apple IDs
01:35:38 ◼ ► and tie them into the family and then you can authorize them and set them up however you want
01:35:43 ◼ ► but that's for the last like three or four years that has been Apple's whole standard so you just
01:35:48 ◼ ► that's the answer. And I switched to a Nikon family plan a couple of months ago and I would say
01:35:54 ◼ ► it's fantastic I have no it was easy to do and I have no personal downsides maybe if you like do
01:36:02 ◼ ► Apple music you would need to pay a little bit more for it that's one I will include in the
01:36:07 ◼ ► show notes a link to Mac Power Users episode 522 where Steven and David talk about iCloud family
01:36:15 ◼ ► sharing in case you want to get a refresher on this Seth or other listeners out there if you're
01:36:20 ◼ ► thinking of doing this but the problem is it is all tied to one iCloud account which I'll say is
01:36:25 ◼ ► great it's a great feature of AirPods right that like I pair it with one device and it's on all my
01:36:30 ◼ ► devices but if you're sharing a whole like if you're sharing one account with a lot of different
01:36:39 ◼ ► people well everyone's gonna connect to everybody else's devices like that's just the way it is.
01:36:44 ◼ ► Ben says with a lot of fake news being spread regarding 5G like the ridiculous conspiracy
01:36:50 ◼ ► theories that it's causing coronavirus resulting in people setting 5G masks on fire in the UK
01:36:56 ◼ ► do you think that this will affect Apple's adoption of the technology? I got this Myke.
01:37:03 ◼ ► I only included this question in the show because I wanted to talk about this real quick just in
01:37:13 ◼ ► case there is anybody out there who believes this or knows someone. This is rolling right over my
01:37:18 ◼ ► no but yeah okay yeah let's talk about it let's break it down. Right it's just purely like this
01:37:21 ◼ ► idea is absolutely crazy like it's crazy it's baseless and it's it's madness like this I like
01:37:31 ◼ ► people oh my god people want to have feel like they have control of their lives and that they
01:37:36 ◼ ► can understand what's going on and under stress and under pressure they will make irrational
01:37:42 ◼ ► they'll believe irrational things and do irrational things and there was already this undercurrent of
01:37:48 ◼ ► kind of not even remotely supported by any information in fact where people were convinced
01:37:53 ◼ ► that 5G was causing health problems so it was very easy to port that over and blame a virus on
01:37:59 ◼ ► cell phone towers those it's it's it's bad and wrong and those people are to be I mean I'm
01:38:09 ◼ ► frustrated with those people but I think they're also to be kind of pitied and maybe help helped
01:38:15 ◼ ► if they can be because they believe a a ridiculous thing and they're wrong and they think that it's
01:38:22 ◼ ► going to make a difference in their lives and it's not going to and it may put them in harm and other
01:38:28 ◼ ► people in harm's way so it's a real shame and and it's not real and 5G is not gonna be affected 5G
01:38:36 ◼ ► rollout is not going to be affected by weird people who believe weird things that is not
01:38:43 ◼ ► that that have no basis in reality yeah I can't can't help but feel sorry for people in these
01:38:48 ◼ ► situations right because they're like they're desperate I get it right like they're desperate
01:38:52 ◼ ► so they'll believe something because it might mean that this can go away quickly like if we turn off
01:38:57 ◼ ► 5G it's going to get rid of this but like that's it's not true and it's it's upsetting but also I
01:39:03 ◼ ► just wanted to bring it up as like a just in case anyone was kind of thinking it out there or like
01:39:09 ◼ ► you've heard someone mention it please like this is a this is a wild thing and these types of
01:39:14 ◼ ► these types of distractions are not helpful for people in times like this right like it's not
01:39:21 ◼ ► going to help us get through this because that's not the solution to this problem the solution is
01:39:26 ◼ ► stay at home just stay at home stay at home if you stay at home we're going to be good for the
01:39:32 ◼ ► record you know what causes COVID-19 is there was a virus that was in a bat and or maybe a pangolin
01:39:47 ◼ ► but can still spread it for the first few days of having it or perhaps longer and then it went from
01:39:51 ◼ ► person to person that's how it happened because that's how viruses emerge and they will continue
01:39:57 ◼ ► to do so and this one is particularly because it is novel it is not something we have any immunity
01:40:03 ◼ ► to and so the solution since we don't know who has it necessarily because unless you've got a
01:40:08 ◼ ► an advanced testing regime which most countries don't have is to stay inside and and wash your
01:40:14 ◼ ► hands and if you go out stay six feet away from everybody and wear a mask if you can or especially
01:40:22 ◼ ► if you're in close quarters but you should still try to keep your distance from other people that
01:40:27 ◼ ► that's it like that's it i know everybody wants there to be more and and bigger picture and stuff
01:40:32 ◼ ► like that um but that's it that's literally it there is no secret cabal there is no secret
01:40:39 ◼ ► technology there is no conspiracy it's you know this is a tale as old as time i mean literally
01:40:48 ◼ ► it is a plague it they happen they are terrible we'll get through it do what you can just just
01:40:57 ◼ ► just follow the rules right like not necessarily the rules of your government like the rules of
01:41:03 ◼ ► the world health organization but 5g phones are going to be fine is what i'm saying 5g phones
01:41:23 ◼ ► if i need tea then possibly that i sometimes i have to slow them down um uh i listen to most
01:41:31 ◼ ► podcasts that i listen to at slightly faster very slightly like one tick up on overcast with smart
01:41:37 ◼ ► speed turned on um so slightly faster there are occasionally podcasts that i will speed up if i'm
01:41:43 ◼ ► way behind on podcasts like i kind of am now i will sometimes speed it up another tick although
01:41:48 ◼ ► i find that that makes some podcasts ludicrously fast and i will set those to still play at a
01:41:55 ◼ ► slower speed the podcast that i truly cherish i play i actually play at 1x with smart speed
01:42:01 ◼ ► because i don't want it to end and i'm willing to take it slow like the flophouse i usually listen
01:42:09 ◼ ► to at 1x but um but there are other podcasts where it's like yeah the 1.1 or 1.2 or whatever it is
01:42:15 ◼ ► that's mine that's mine so i do i do um but not a lot i know there are people out there who listen
01:42:21 ◼ ► to 2x and all it's like i i i feel like in that point like bless you because you're listening to
01:42:27 ◼ ► a lot of podcasts but at the same time i feel like i'm starting to miss even above 1.1 i'm starting
01:42:32 ◼ ► to miss the timing of everything and if all you're really doing is is getting information then that's
01:42:38 ◼ ► great but you start to miss the timing of the conversation and i don't like that so i keep it
01:42:42 ◼ ► keep it slight yeah i i am 1x with smart speed or silent skipping uh just because that's just how
01:42:50 ◼ ► i've always been i used to be like a speed purist right like i would say do not listen like please
01:42:57 ◼ ► don't listen to my shows faster than 1.5 or whatever but i've kind of i've i've grown up and
01:43:03 ◼ ► i've i've grown out of that because honestly like people use silent skipping like you know and that
01:43:08 ◼ ► even could be a like it can be a frustration to me because there are shows where like i'm editing
01:43:13 ◼ ► them really particularly and i am putting the spaces in yeah and the spaces are just just taken
01:43:19 ◼ ► out like it's like if you're listening to this in smart speed at at 1.5x that thing where i said no
01:43:24 ◼ ► that killed at 1.0 with no sports speed that was the funniest thing in this whole episode but
01:43:30 ◼ ► you kind of missed it okay we just we just we just blew on past it because that was all about
01:43:34 ◼ ► like timing and and and stuff like that now i agree with you um what i always have said and i believe
01:43:41 ◼ ► this is um my podcasts are made for 1x and you can do what you want with them but like their
01:43:49 ◼ ► support the supported speed is 1x i make it to sound right at 1x and then you can do what you
01:43:58 ◼ ► like with it and people listen really fast and that's fine that's fine but what i don't do is
01:44:04 ◼ ► think oh now how's this going to work in smart speed and what's it going to sound like at 1.2
01:44:08 ◼ ► and i'm just i'm not going to do that that that i'm not going to do that's take it into your own
01:44:13 ◼ ► hands and make your own judgments also we never ever ever ever need to hear again when we're live
01:44:20 ◼ ► in person or if that ever happens again or on a live stream i never need to hear it again that
01:44:25 ◼ ► we sound drunk so slowly that 1x no i don't no i don't this is how i actually speed you listen so
01:44:32 ◼ ► quickly oh i have to remember that i have to try no no you listen too fast that's that's what it is
01:44:43 ◼ ► if you'd like to send in a question for a future episode just send out a tweet with the hashtag
01:44:47 ◼ ► ask upgrade we'd love to get some more of these kind of run a little low right now so ask anything
01:44:52 ◼ ► you want especially like uh stuff about working at home me and jason have been doing it for five
01:44:57 ◼ ► years at least right so we have tips we have to share i will say but about anything technology
01:45:02 ◼ ► related or whatever you want to send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade and they're collected
01:45:06 ◼ ► up into a document so please send some of those in uh thanks so much for listening thanks to our
01:45:11 ◼ ► sponsors this week squarespace linode pingdom and ero if you want to find jason's work online he is
01:45:17 ◼ ► at jason l j s n e double l and you can find his work writing over at sixcolors.com i am i mike i
01:45:24 ◼ ► m y k e thank you thank you as always so much for listening to this show uh we genuinely genuinely
01:45:30 ◼ ► appreciate it if you want to support the show you can become a relay fm member you got a relay.fm
01:45:35 ◼ ► membership but there's also a link in your show notes of this episode to support upgrade
01:45:40 ◼ ► if you feel like you would like to do that we would appreciate it if not totally cool uh don't
01:45:46 ◼ ► forget stay inside wash your hands all that fun stuff we're gonna get through this together as