00:00:14 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 302 and it is the WWDC draft for 2020. Today's episode is
00:00:24 ◼ ► brought to you by TextExpander from Smile, Pingdom, Linode and KiwiCo. My name is Myke Hurley and I
00:00:30 ◼ ► am joined by my friend, my compatriot and my combatant in the draft today, Mr. Jason Snow.
00:00:36 ◼ ► Hello, Jason Snow. Let's get ready to rumble! We will indeed. Oh god, it's Monday morning, I can't do that.
00:00:43 ◼ ► Big episode today and I am starting out this monumental episode of Upgrade with a first Jason.
00:00:50 ◼ ► I have two #snowtalk questions for you. Are you stalling? Are you afraid to get to the draft?
00:00:56 ◼ ► Are you afraid? Do you think that's what's happening here? Do you? Alright, pick number one. No, we're not gonna do that question.
00:01:01 ◼ ► Question one from Albert is, "Jason, aren't all lists kind of a draft?" Albert, you have cracked the code.
00:01:16 ◼ ► the incomparable. In fact, I'm planning one of these right now. Draft format can be used as a way
00:01:23 ◼ ► to compile a fun list, right? Like that is a common way to do it. So I would recommend the
00:01:29 ◼ ► next time you're making a shopping list with the people you shop with in your household, maybe do it as a draft.
00:01:36 ◼ ► And Dan's question is, "Which is your favorite word of the homophones, draft or draft?" Draft meaning the
00:01:43 ◼ ► one we're doing now, or draft meaning like beer. Okay, well I think you did that wrong. It's d-r-a-f-t
00:01:49 ◼ ► and d-r-a-u-g-h-t and the answer is I'm an American. It's always spelled d-r-a-f-t. Is it? For beer too.
00:01:56 ◼ ► Yes it is. Huh, okay, I didn't know that. So like for us it basically looks like the word drought,
00:02:01 ◼ ► I guess, with an a instead of an o. But that's, there we go, we all learned something today.
00:02:07 ◼ ► Which one do you prefer though? Draft beer or draft drafts? Alright, don't make me pick.
00:02:13 ◼ ► Don't make me choose between my children. Okay, we can move on today. Thank you so much for
00:02:18 ◼ ► those Snail Talk questions. You can send in a tweet with the hashtag Snail Talk to help us
00:02:23 ◼ ► open the show. We have some very big news here around Upgrade today and that is the introduction
00:02:29 ◼ ► of Upgrade Plus. You can go to getupgradeplus.com, sign up right now and you will get this show with
00:02:36 ◼ ► more content and no ads starting this week. It costs $5 a month or $50 a year. Basically this is
00:02:43 ◼ ► an adaptation of the Real AFM membership program. So now if you choose to support Upgrade directly,
00:02:50 ◼ ► so when you sign up you get the money straight to us, you will get an additional bonus feed which is
00:02:56 ◼ ► Upgrade Plus so there are no ads in the shows and we have a bonus topic for every episode. Like
00:03:02 ◼ ► today's episode, we're going to be kind of commiserating and kind of like looking at our
00:03:08 ◼ ► drafts together after we've picked them and kind of see how we usually feel. That's a good time to
00:03:14 ◼ ► be like, "Oh no, I don't know if I did a good job" or maybe we'll be really confident. So that's going
00:03:18 ◼ ► to be the bonus topic for this week's Upgrade and so you can sign up at getupgradeplus.com. Of course
00:03:25 ◼ ► we went with Upgrade Plus, right? It was the perfect name. It had to be this name, Myke,
00:03:30 ◼ ► because we talk so much on Upstream about how every single service should be a plus of some sort
00:03:35 ◼ ► after Apple TV Plus. Like just all the pluses just keep on accumulating. You know, Peacock Pro Plus,
00:03:42 ◼ ► all of those. So Upgrade Plus seems logical to me. Yeah, it was a good one. I'm really pleased
00:03:49 ◼ ► that we could get it. Obviously you can't use the plus sign in a URL so it's P-L-U-S, right?
00:03:54 ◼ ► Getupgradeplus.com. There's a few things about this that I want to just dig into a little bit
00:03:59 ◼ ► because I think this is a fantastic deal but because we have an existing membership plan,
00:04:04 ◼ ► there's some things here. So if you're an existing Real AFM member already, thank you, you can add
00:04:09 ◼ ► Upgrade Plus on top of your current membership. So you can have multiple memberships if you want
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00:04:23 ◼ ► you will also still get all of the other Real AFM member benefits like our bonus crossover content,
00:04:29 ◼ ► access to the Real AFM members Discord and more. But then you also get access to this new feed
00:04:35 ◼ ► which gets you more of the show with no ads. Once again, that is getupgradeplus.com or you can click
00:04:41 ◼ ► the link in the show notes. Once you've signed up, it's super easy to sign up. You go to them,
00:04:45 ◼ ► it takes you immediately to the member for podcast page. There's a little drop down so you get access
00:04:50 ◼ ► to the Real AFM crossover content and Upgrade Plus. So you just select which one you want from
00:04:54 ◼ ► the drop down and we have buttons when you're on mobile to immediately launch you into any
00:05:03 ◼ ► add it to Overcast, add it to Castro, PocketCast, all those. Or if you're on a desktop, you get QR
00:05:14 ◼ ► two feeds of a bunch of great stuff if you sign up at getupgradeplus.com for just $5 a month. I
00:05:21 ◼ ► think this is fantastic value. There's so much content there. You'll also be helping support
00:05:25 ◼ ► this show, getting that extra content from us, no longer here in any ads. That's at getupgradeplus.com.
00:05:32 ◼ ► I'm excited. We have been working for about three months on this. It's been really complex to get
00:05:38 ◼ ► done. And I want to thank Steven and our developer Ben for making it happen so we can produce this.
00:05:43 ◼ ► You know, if you remember a few months ago, we published a letter at Relay FM where we spoke about
00:05:49 ◼ ► wanting to spend time on having more available for our listeners if they want to support us directly.
00:05:56 ◼ ► And this is another part of that. So I'm really excited about this and I hope that all of the
00:06:02 ◼ ► Upgradients sign up and then they'll get even more of the show. So yeah. And last week's show is an
00:06:08 ◼ ► Upgrade Plus show too. Yes. So you should listen to that last segment if you subscribe because we
00:06:13 ◼ ► did it. We already did one as a test. And we do a lot of, we say a lot of dumb things and do a lot
00:06:19 ◼ ► of nonsense and the show spills over after we're done. And we've never really done an after show
00:06:25 ◼ ► per se. And, you know, it's sort of like, this is not quite that, but it's close to that. We're
00:06:30 ◼ ► kind of, I think channeling our extra stuff in a little more structured way in order to have
00:06:37 ◼ ► extra content in the Upgrade Plus feed. So the, and we should say, if you don't want to do that,
00:06:43 ◼ ► that's fine. The show will remain free with ads and there will be a little bit less stuff in it,
00:06:48 ◼ ► but we're not going to make a show with a cliffhanger that only is accessible to members
00:06:52 ◼ ► or anything like that. We're not going to be jerks about it, but if you do want to hear more of us,
00:06:56 ◼ ► there will be more of us in Upgrade Plus. And if you really want that content and don't want to pay,
00:07:05 ◼ ► like you can listen to our live stream. Yes, it's all there. Even the extra Upgrade Plus content is
00:07:10 ◼ ► streamed live still, so you can get it there, but not everybody can, not everybody will want to.
00:07:15 ◼ ► It's not an edited show, right? Like I know for me, I like edited shows and it will continue to
00:07:21 ◼ ► be that. So when you become an Upgrade Plus member, you'll hear a little bit of the music
00:07:25 ◼ ► and then the music fades out and then a whole new topic starts. So that's upgradeplus.com.
00:07:30 ◼ ► Right. And Upgrade Plus is the edited show, right? It's not a bootleg of the live stream. It is a
00:07:36 ◼ ► fully edited show, including the extra material. Yep. Yep. So very excited, very excited. And thank
00:07:53 ◼ ► it's worth noting that basically as soon as the keynote ends, we will be going live with
00:07:59 ◼ ► our kind of reactions episode to WWDC. So if you, I don't, obviously we don't know what time that
00:08:06 ◼ ► will be probably around noon Pacific, uh, at relay.fm/live. This is a great, if you become
00:08:13 ◼ ► a member, you get access to the relay.fm members discord. There's a great chat going on there all
00:08:18 ◼ ► the time. And you can listen to the live feed inside of there as well. You can also listen on
00:08:22 ◼ ► our website, but for me personally, I think that the discord is the best place to get that content.
00:08:28 ◼ ► So you can do that. I actually think as well that some of our discord mods are planning like a
00:08:33 ◼ ► watch along for the keynote as well. So that's a really awesome thing that they're looking at
00:08:39 ◼ ► trying to do. So yeah, we will be streaming the show live basically as soon as we can after the
00:08:44 ◼ ► keynote ends. Um, then the state of the union is at 2 PM. So we have some time, which is great.
00:08:50 ◼ ► I'm very pleased about that. Um, there's over a hundred session videos that are going to be
00:08:56 ◼ ► going up over the week. And this is interesting, but new videos will be going up at 10 AM Eastern,
00:09:03 ◼ ► sorry, 10 AM Pacific every day. It's a binge drop, isn't it? It's frustrating for me because
00:09:10 ◼ ► I will wait all day. Right. And then at 6 PM stuff will start happening. So this is going to
00:09:17 ◼ ► be the weird thing about WWDC for me at this time. Anyway, it's like, everything's going to be
00:09:21 ◼ ► happening so late in the day for me, which is, you know, maybe I'll just won't watch anything one day
00:09:27 ◼ ► and then just catch up on it all the next day or something. The next morning when we're all sleeping.
00:09:31 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. That probably works. Um, an all new Apple developer forum is coming on June 18th.
00:09:37 ◼ ► I'm fascinated to see what this is going to look like. Uh, during the week of WWDC over a
00:09:42 ◼ ► thousand engineers will be in the forum to discuss new APIs, answer questions. Anyone can view the
00:09:48 ◼ ► conversations, but you have to be a paying developer program member to actually ask questions,
00:09:54 ◼ ► which is probably a good move. Um, because it would, I'm sure be absolutely unbelievably rammed
00:10:02 ◼ ► if anyone, right? Like it just cause you can have a free membership to the developer program or a
00:10:07 ◼ ► paid one. Um, you have to pay to get the bayers and stuff. And then they're also doing one-on-one
00:10:12 ◼ ► developer labs by appointment only for paying developer program members only. So this is
00:10:17 ◼ ► basically what we'd hoped it would be. Right. I think that they're doing all of the things that
00:10:23 ◼ ► we would want, right? They're trying to replicate as much as they can and have an open discussion
00:10:28 ◼ ► forum, which, you know, that forum is, is interesting because that's more than what you
00:10:34 ◼ ► would usually get at WWDC, right? Like you, not all developers get to see what Apple engineers have to
00:10:41 ◼ ► say about things. So this will actually give them maybe a little bit more than they would normally
00:10:47 ◼ ► have gotten. Which I think is kind of cool. I think it's really cool. Yeah. We'll see in practice how it works. This is going to be an interesting
00:10:56 ◼ ► experiment, but, um, I hope it goes well because I really like the idea that there will be, you know,
00:11:04 ◼ ► potentially if this works, you can have other, you know, forums with Apple participation or labs with
00:11:11 ◼ ► Apple participation. Maybe not all the time, right? Because presumably the people at Apple
00:11:16 ◼ ► have to do their regular jobs most of the time, but maybe there's a subset of people at Apple, people in
00:11:21 ◼ ► developer relations or developer technical support who are in here more often going forward, or maybe
00:11:26 ◼ ► they set up like a developer lab weeks throughout the year or something like that and spread this
00:11:34 ◼ ► out maybe quarterly or something like that. So there's, once they build all of this, I hope that
00:11:38 ◼ ► they will put it into practice, but they're going to learn a lot about how well or how poorly it goes
00:11:42 ◼ ► this first time. It is going to be fascinating to see what happens to these forums after the week of
00:11:47 ◼ ► WWDC. Do they become like a ghost town? Like what are they, what is the plan with that? So yeah, I'm
00:11:53 ◼ ► genuinely like really pleased to see that we now have a plan. The plan includes the bare minimum,
00:12:00 ◼ ► plus extra things we'd hope they would do. So I think Apple has done a really good job and you,
00:12:06 ◼ ► I think you can see here that like, you know, this is the reason why WWDC is so late in June.
00:12:10 ◼ ► They had to get all this stuff ready. This was not what they were planning. And I think that they've
00:12:14 ◼ ► so far, at least on the surface, done a really good job of outlining a good replacement for the week.
00:12:28 ◼ ► you have dominated WWDC's drafts historically? - We sure can. So here's some draft stats before
00:12:35 ◼ ► we get into the rules. In 2019, Jason, he won again, getting both the March services event
00:12:43 ◼ ► and WWDC drafts. That was actually Jason's first and only win at the WWDC draft. We have done four
00:12:51 ◼ ► WWDC drafts, 2016, '17, '18, and '19. I had '16, '17, and '18 in the win. Jason got 2019. I remember
00:12:59 ◼ ► it was incredibly close last year as well. I have actually only won four drafts in total of the 12
00:13:07 ◼ ► that we have done, and three of those were WWDC drafts. So historically, this is my draft to lose.
00:13:15 ◼ ► However, in the overall picture, Jason always wins. So this is why the WWDC draft is the most
00:13:22 ◼ ► interesting, because I seem to do good in this one, but Jason does really well overall.
00:13:26 ◼ ► - Yeah, it's true. It's true. Yeah, three of your four wins are at the developer conference.
00:13:41 ◼ ► - Ten rounds, 20 overall picks between the two of us. The winner of the previous draft gets first
00:13:46 ◼ ► pick, which is Jason. For an item to count for it to be scored, it must either be clearly announced
00:13:54 ◼ ► on stage or on a slide during the presentation. If it happens before the presentation, after the
00:14:00 ◼ ► presentation does not count. Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in a case of a scoring stalemate
00:14:06 ◼ ► between the two of us. We always prefer to score ourselves, but sometimes we do need outside help.
00:14:10 ◼ ► No half points awarded. No points awarded for any ridiculously obvious items, like we cannot pick
00:14:19 ◼ ► iOS 14 announced does not count. The points awarded on the episode are final. So if anything is,
00:14:27 ◼ ► even if something is mis-scored, doesn't count. Whatever we say on our next episode is the final.
00:14:34 ◼ ► And in case of a tie, we have a tiebreaker question. We have instituted the rule that the
00:14:48 ◼ ► our tiebreaker question is, does Tim Cook present from a stage? That is the entire thing. So is
00:14:59 ◼ ► there a stage? The stage could be, so we'll talk about this, stage could be any kind of stage,
00:15:04 ◼ ► but it's a stage, right? So he is on an elevated platform. Yeah, as opposed to like on a floor at
00:15:11 ◼ ► Apple Park, right? It's a stagecraft tiebreaker question, which is, you know, is this going to
00:15:17 ◼ ► seem more like a stage presentation or more like an infomercial? And I think we both agree that
00:15:23 ◼ ► seems kind of like a take your pick proposition, which is the whole idea behind the tiebreaker is
00:15:28 ◼ ► that you could pick either one and you just have to pick one. So we'll say that too. We do like
00:15:36 ◼ ► picking our own winners. We've not had to resort to Stephen Hackett a lot, which is good. I mean,
00:15:43 ◼ ► he's got better things to do with his time, quite honestly, than dealing with us. And when I say that
00:15:48 ◼ ► it's ridiculously obvious items, I should say we are picking from a list that was agreed upon by
00:15:54 ◼ ► both of us so that if you, dear listener, quibble with something and think that it's ridiculously
00:15:59 ◼ ► obvious, fair enough, but we agreed on a list of items. Yeah, so that's a really important part of
00:16:07 ◼ ► the rules because we're not picking blind here. Like Jason isn't saying stuff that I haven't heard
00:16:14 ◼ ► before. We are picking from a pre-approved list of stuff that we've been working on for the past
00:16:18 ◼ ► week or so. And then we have take from that list and we both order and we make our own little secret
00:16:26 ◼ ► pick list so that we then surprise each other with. I will note that as always, there will be
00:16:30 ◼ ► a scorecard. There'll be two scorecards in the show notes, one PDF scorecard that you can put
00:16:34 ◼ ► into an app and drawing if you want. But the best scorecard is Zach Knox's interactive scorecard,
00:16:38 ◼ ► which is in the show notes today. So you'll find that. So I guess for that tiebreaker question,
00:16:44 ◼ ► I think it's pretty obvious that I do believe that Tim Cook will present from a stage. So I say yes,
00:16:50 ◼ ► Jason gets no. So if Tim is not on a stage, then Jason will win the tiebreaker point. But the
00:17:01 ◼ ► So I am fascinated to find out Apple's decision about whether they want to emulate a traditional
00:17:06 ◼ ► Apple keynote or whether they're going to do this infomercial style. Because they're both,
00:17:12 ◼ ► as we talked about last week, both perfectly valid. But are they going to embrace it or do
00:17:17 ◼ ► they think that there's just so much legacy with the Apple keynote presentation? And quite honestly,
00:17:22 ◼ ► for people who are watching remotely, which is almost everybody, that's what it looks like.
00:17:27 ◼ ► You could do it now and it would still look like a stage presentation, even though nobody is there.
00:17:32 ◼ ► So we'll see. So I don't know if you saw this, but I'm sure you did, that Tim Cook announced
00:17:39 ◼ ► Apple's racial equality and justice initiative, which is a great thing. It's a really cool video.
00:17:45 ◼ ► It's going to be led by Lisa Jackson, who was running the environmental stuff at Apple. I
00:17:51 ◼ ► don't know if it still is or if Lisa's moved to this or if it's become part of their role. I'm
00:17:57 ◼ ► not sure. But the point I want to bring up now is the video is shot with Apple Park in the background.
00:18:09 ◼ ► is that what WWDC is going to look like? Or are we going to get the stage? We don't know.
00:18:15 ◼ ► And Federico mentioned this to me today. What if they use the outside stage that Apple have?
00:18:38 ◼ ► than usual to pick from because there are a lot of unknowns just into how this presentation
00:18:44 ◼ ► will be presented. And that's one of the other kind of wrinkles in this draft that makes it
00:18:49 ◼ ► a little bit more complicated. Now we should probably get started with draft picks one to three.
00:18:55 ◼ ► But before we do, I want to thank our first sponsor of this episode, and that is TextExpander
00:19:00 ◼ ► from our friends at Smile. TextExpander lets you use abbreviations to expand simple things
00:19:05 ◼ ► like a phone number or an address. TextExpander updates these little snippets that you can create
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00:19:47 ◼ ► across teams or departments. This is something that we use here at Relay FM. We have customer
00:19:52 ◼ ► support queries, we have things that we need to send out to the clients that we work with. And
00:19:56 ◼ ► having all of that language shared amongst all of us means we're not all having to write this stuff
00:20:00 ◼ ► every single time. And it gives an element of consistency, no matter what's being said in our
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00:20:52 ◼ ► Well, since I get the first pick, which is very generous, I'm going to go with the thing that
00:20:56 ◼ ► is the closest to a certainty, but it's not a certainty. It is a report that we've heard
00:21:02 ◼ ► a lot about and Mark Gurman reported it, but of course he couched it and of course they could make
00:21:06 ◼ ► changes. So I'm going to go with the ARM transition because I want to believe, and I think it's
00:21:12 ◼ ► probably a pretty good bet at this point, but it might not happen, but you know, I'm going to pick
00:21:17 ◼ ► it. I'm going to say that Apple is going to do that thing that they've done a couple of times
00:21:20 ◼ ► before, which is stand in front of developers and say, we're going to make a chip transition.
00:21:23 ◼ ► And there's been a lot of conversation about this. And a lot of people like Jean-Louis Gasset did
00:21:28 ◼ ► this post that references the Osborne effect, which is the idea that you pre-announce something
00:21:32 ◼ ► and then nobody buys your products. But like we saw with the Intel transition that the truth is
00:21:38 ◼ ► most people don't pay attention to stuff like this, and it's not going to be a cataclysmic
00:21:45 ◼ ► compatibility break with the past. And so, you know, if Apple were to say, announce a new Mac
00:21:52 ◼ ► and also an ARM transition, that Mac's not going to sell less well. It's not because most people
00:21:57 ◼ ► don't care. And Apple's whole goal with a processor transition is that you should not even notice
00:22:03 ◼ ► essentially that there's something different. So we'll see how they play it. But I do think
00:22:10 ◼ ► And as well, the Osborne effect, it doesn't matter for Macs, for Apple, like the Osborne effect is a
00:22:23 ◼ ► And you'll go back out of business if you don't have anything to sell for six months. It's true.
00:22:27 ◼ ► Because that's what it's referencing. That is the Osborne effect. Osborne computing went out
00:22:31 ◼ ► of business because of this. But also, it's not a thing that we've had a chip transition in the Mac
00:22:39 ◼ ► before, and it didn't matter. It just didn't matter. And in fact, I think Apple plans this.
00:22:43 ◼ ► If you look at the Intel transition, the Intel Macs were the same models as the previous Mac.
00:22:48 ◼ ► So Apple, everything it was doing was just selling continuity. It didn't matter. It didn't matter
00:22:53 ◼ ► before. It didn't matter after. The nerds cared. The developers really cared. And there's work
00:22:58 ◼ ► that will have to happen on that front. But the developers will be the ones doing the work,
00:23:03 ◼ ► and the consumers will just be kind of like happy. Because the truth is, and this is not just about
00:23:07 ◼ ► like, "Oh, dumb consumers. They don't understand." The truth is that if you buy an Intel Mac in 2020,
00:23:14 ◼ ► it's going to live its normal usable life, and it's not going to be a problem, right? You're
00:23:18 ◼ ► going to use it. You know, Casey Liss's 13-inch MacBook Pro is going to have the same usable
00:23:24 ◼ ► lifespan as it would have if there was no ARM transition if there is one. It doesn't matter,
00:23:30 ◼ ► because a computer has a lifespan, whether it's two years or three years or five years or seven
00:23:34 ◼ ► years, however long you use it, it gets old and seems slow compared to modern systems. That always
00:23:40 ◼ ► happens. The fact that the next generation uses a different processor type, I don't think is going
00:23:46 ◼ ► to make any difference. And there will still be a lot of people that will want to buy Intel Macs
00:23:52 ◼ ► because they won't want to get the first ARM Mac, right? So people in like businesses and stuff
00:23:58 ◼ ► might, you know, they're still going to make those purchasing decisions if they need them.
00:24:01 ◼ ► - Yeah, I get that fear of missing out is a thing, but, and some of us will feel that for sure,
00:24:11 ◼ ► I think it's going to be fine, and it's going to kind of be irrelevant. So, but I would like to
00:24:17 ◼ ► believe, I said in my year-end column this year for Macworld, I believe, that I've been picking
00:24:24 ◼ ► the year of the ARM transition for like three years. It's bound to be true eventually. So like
00:24:30 ◼ ► I said, I think it's going to happen, but also I totally want to believe that we're finally there
00:24:35 ◼ ► and that it's going to get announced. So I pick it. - It was my second pick in my list.
00:24:51 ◼ ► this feels pretty strong to me as a pick on my first pick is that there will be changes to the
00:25:05 ◼ ► display files. It could be anything, but I think we're at the point where we need to see some
00:25:12 ◼ ► change to the way the desktop, the home screen looks on iPad OS to continue pushing forward
00:25:27 ◼ ► that the iPad should continue to grow. And I think more than anything, we've had this design,
00:25:34 ◼ ► this standard app icon grid design for too long now. - So are you, you're saying iPad specifically,
00:25:39 ◼ ► so if they change the iPhone home screen and not the iPad home screen, you don't get this,
00:25:43 ◼ ► but you think this is, I like your logic, which is that they're trying to make the iPad more like
00:25:47 ◼ ► a computer and the home screen that it's using was already inappropriate by the way, because it was
00:25:51 ◼ ► the weird spaced out iPhone home screen and it was for a different kind of device. So it's certainly
00:26:03 ◼ ► make changes to iOS, they will come to iPad OS. I'm almost certain of that, but that isn't
00:26:08 ◼ ► necessarily the same in the inverse, that there could be things they would want to do on iPad OS
00:26:13 ◼ ► that won't find its way to the iPhone. But like if widgets exist on the iPhone, then like on the
00:26:19 ◼ ► actual home screen, they're not going to be like, I am taking that bet anyway. They're not going to
00:26:23 ◼ ► be like, ah, we're not going to bring that to the iPad. Like that just seems weird. But I could
00:26:28 ◼ ► imagine them saying iPad OS now has this new home screen view in the same way that like they started
00:26:35 ◼ ► that last year, right? Like the home screen on the iPad can now have widgets pinned on it.
00:26:40 ◼ ► You can't do that on the iPhone. So I'm going to stick with my pick to just say iPad OS.
00:26:48 ◼ ► - I'm going to go again with the rumors and I'm going to just embrace them and embrace our friend
00:27:02 ◼ ► - So step one, arm transition. And remember what I said, which is what if Apple announced a Mac?
00:27:08 ◼ ► It would be fine. And that's what they'll do. They'll announce a new iMac with a new iMac design,
00:27:12 ◼ ► but a new, I'm not going to pick the design. New iMac, new iMac, new iMac announced on the stage
00:27:24 ◼ ► I'll maybe tip my hand a little bit at this point. So I can kind of tell you what I think about this.
00:27:29 ◼ ► We have a lot of potential hardware picks that we can make for this draft because there are,
00:27:38 ◼ ► - The infinite number, some would say of potential hardware. It's all fantasy until it happens.
00:27:43 ◼ ► - More than normal at this time, there seems to be like a lot of stuff that's like could happen.
00:27:53 ◼ ► not only are the rumors are strong, but it's really desperate because you're right. It's not
00:27:58 ◼ ► usually a strong hardware announcement platform, but it is an announcement platform. And this one,
00:28:03 ◼ ► I don't know, it felt right to me. I discounted almost all of those floating around potential
00:28:07 ◼ ► hardware as being a stretch. And a lot of them, I kept saying to myself, it's probably for the fall.
00:28:26 ◼ ► about the iMac because we haven't had an iMac Pro announcement either since the original iMac Pro.
00:28:50 ◼ ► Jason does not get this point. There has to be a replacement to the current consumer iMac product.
00:28:58 ◼ ► I have in my potential pick list, I've listed kind of like drafted between 20 and 30 things
00:29:04 ◼ ► out of our whole list that I'll be picking, I'm picking from. The iMac is the only one that made
00:29:09 ◼ ► it before the halfway point of my list. Everything else is way lower because this does feel like
00:29:16 ◼ ► if they're gonna do something hardware related, it's gonna be this. But we'll see. Okay, so.
00:29:24 ◼ ► for my second pick. The Apple will announce the ability to change default apps on iOS and iPadOS.
00:29:52 ◼ ► kind of, I'm sure do not wanna do this, right? This is not a thing that they will wanna do.
00:29:56 ◼ ► However, I think that they will do it now before regulatory stuff starts to come down on them.
00:30:05 ◼ ► - Yeah, before the EU or the US Congress says, you're not playing fair with your app store,
00:30:16 ◼ ► that we are likely to see this because it just feels like a time where if they do it now,
00:30:22 ◼ ► they will avoid what is clearly a groundswell of pressure for this before they start getting told
00:30:30 ◼ ► to do it. So make it a good consumer story rather than a look how evil Apple is and we've made them
00:30:41 ◼ ► because I think like a lot of these picks, it seems super solid when we're discussing it in a normal
00:30:48 ◼ ► episode of upgrade. And then you think, but what I pick it in a draft that it's tangibly going to
00:30:58 ◼ ► Yes, you're right. When you look at it like that, it's like putting my draft picks where my mouth is
00:31:02 ◼ ► is like, it feels a little bit more uncertain, but. - Because here's the thing, I agree with you
00:31:10 ◼ ► that this is probably going to happen and it's going to happen exactly for the reasons you
00:31:14 ◼ ► detailed, which is they don't want to do it, but they want to diffuse criticism of them. Now,
00:31:19 ◼ ► whether they make it a banner feature in their operating system or whether it's more like
00:31:23 ◼ ► something they slide into a November update and don't talk about, that remains to be seen.
00:31:29 ◼ ► It would require presumably some work on the part of the third-party developers who are making these
00:31:34 ◼ ► tools. They might actually have a whole new thing they need to do in order to support being a
00:31:38 ◼ ► default app. And that might withstand WWDC. It also might be the kind of thing where they don't
00:31:43 ◼ ► even talk about it on stage. And then it's in the state of the union or it's in a session.
00:31:47 ◼ ► They're like not even talking about it, but they may fly the flag and take credit for being so
00:31:58 ◼ ► default apps. It totally could happen. So it's risky, but I can see. - I imagine that this could
00:32:03 ◼ ► very well show on one of those word clouds. - Yeah, and that counts by the way. If it's in
00:32:11 ◼ ► a slide on the screen, that counts. It doesn't have to be spoken aloud. It has to be visible
00:32:18 ◼ ► in the presentation. - Yep, the live chat and the members Discord are saying that that feels
00:32:29 ◼ ► - Unless it's on the cloud. - I have some less bold picks, but I wanted to make some bold ones
00:32:34 ◼ ► to start off. - Yeah, that's good. It's exciting. - What's your third pick, Jason? - I'm going to go
00:32:40 ◼ ► with the other shoe dropping regarding the fact that you've got appointing support on iPads now
00:32:45 ◼ ► and say that iPad OS 14 is going to support external displays for iPad in a better way.
00:32:53 ◼ ► - You went bold. - And it's, you know, I don't think it's that bold a choice. I think it's
00:32:59 ◼ ► obvious. I feel like this is part of the whole migration, external keyboards and trackpads,
00:33:04 ◼ ► not just the magic keyboard, but external keyboard and trackpad support on iPad. Once that exists,
00:33:10 ◼ ► and the iPad already supports external displays, right? It just doesn't support putting the UI
00:33:18 ◼ ► of the apps on them. So I don't think it's that far. Now, maybe it will be limited. Maybe it will
00:33:23 ◼ ► be only one app, or maybe it'll be split view. Maybe there'll be something that feels a little
00:33:27 ◼ ► more like expose. But I think there will be something, because now that you can do external
00:33:34 ◼ ► keyboard and mouse and have a cursor on iPad OS, and it does external display support, it seems
00:33:42 ◼ ► like they're so close that all of the conditions have been met, that this should be the next step,
00:33:49 ◼ ► which is, yes, you should be able to just put an app on an external display and use it. So I don't
00:33:55 ◼ ► think, I mean, yes, I'm making this up, right? But I'm fairly positive that they could do this,
00:34:06 ◼ ► So like, this is one of those things where I agree, it was on my list. Like, I think that this
00:34:17 ◼ ► will happen. But it feels like one of those things where it's like, ah, but I could imagine they
00:34:33 ◼ ► like, just default apps, it's a thing that kind of makes sense and I expect will happen. The question
00:34:49 ◼ ► - All right. I mean, I think, so augmented reality stuff is obviously a focus for them.
00:35:12 ◼ ► enhancements that will come to the iPhone. Everyone knows will come to the iPhone in the fall,
00:35:18 ◼ ► but isn't there yet. This is the reason you can ship the iPad Pro with that LIDAR sensor,
00:35:44 ◼ ► And that's where I get hung up a little bit, is do they hold stuff back for the iPhone launch event.
00:35:51 ◼ ► But I think on your side of the ledger is the fact that it's probably a new version of ARKit
00:36:03 ◼ ► So I think this is good. I don't think it's a layup. This is why it was on our list, right?
00:36:09 ◼ ► I don't think it's a layup. I don't think it's super guaranteed, but I do think it's a strong
00:36:13 ◼ ► pick because Apple loves talking about AR so much. Because they, you know, again, this is like one of
00:36:18 ◼ ► those things like it or not, Apple have decided this is an important future for them, for
00:36:23 ◼ ► potential products that they may or may not release, but they're continuing to, I mean,
00:36:26 ◼ ► look, they put this sensor on the iPad for that one reason, right? It's for AR and it's coming
00:36:32 ◼ ► to the iPhone. So I think that one of the reasons they put it on that iPad is so they could talk
00:36:37 ◼ ► about it at WWDC, so they can have developers starting to work on stuff. So they're not
00:36:42 ◼ ► announcing like these big things that LIDAR can support with ARKit two weeks, three weeks before
00:36:48 ◼ ► the iPhone ships with the LIDAR support. I imagine they want developers working on LIDAR stuff now
00:36:54 ◼ ► and the hardware exists. It's like if you imagine the idea of a, we haven't spoken about it yet,
00:37:01 ◼ ► but like an ARM transition Mac, right? Where Apple will ship to developers, so some kind of product
00:37:07 ◼ ► that can run ARM, the 2020 iPad Pro is almost like the LIDAR transition kit for the iPhone.
00:37:13 ◼ ► It is a product that exists that allows people to develop AR applications with LIDAR support in mind
00:37:19 ◼ ► because it's coming to the iPhone later on this year. So I think that there will be a new version
00:37:24 ◼ ► of ARKit, which will have some big improvements. One of those will be LIDAR. I mean, I know LIDAR
00:37:29 ◼ ► is already supported by ARKit, but I'm sure there's more stuff that can be enhanced with it,
00:37:34 ◼ ► along with some other stuff. Apple really believe in this AR stuff. It could even be a case of them
00:37:40 ◼ ► talking about like being able to use this stuff inside in stores and stuff, which has been some
00:37:45 ◼ ► rumors around that, that they actually have a partnership with Starbucks that they're working
00:37:49 ◼ ► on now to kind of use indoor and position tracking and all that kind of stuff to make these things
00:37:54 ◼ ► better. And that AR will help enable that. So we'll see. We'll see. I'm starting to imagine a
00:38:02 ◼ ► demo that involves like an augmented reality version of the presentation that shows a giant
00:38:08 ◼ ► audience for it where there is none. But we'll see. I think it's a good bet, but it's still a bet.
00:38:18 ◼ ► So that's perfect. Perfect kind of draft pick to make. Yeah. I also do believe that right now,
00:38:23 ◼ ► the only people that think AR is super important is Apple and maybe Niantic, the Pokemon Go people.
00:38:34 ◼ ► until people start picking it up because they know it's important for what their future plans are.
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00:39:51 ◼ ► show and RelayFN. Pick four, Jason Snell, lay it on me. Let's go back to the Mac. Despite my better
00:40:00 ◼ ► judgment and my despair and my pessimism about this, I am going to go with Catalyst improvements.
00:40:13 ◼ ► Mac Catalyst will be improved. No improvements for Catalyst mentioned. Those are both options,
00:40:20 ◼ ► and I was honestly torn, so torn between them. But I'm going to go with the optimism that
00:40:26 ◼ ► it's worth Apple saying, "We got a lot of great feedback about Mac Catalyst over the last year,
00:40:33 ◼ ► and it's going to be even better, and we've enabled creating even more apps from it." Now,
00:40:37 ◼ ► that may come in adapting iPhone apps. That may come with specific changes to improve certain
00:40:43 ◼ ► kinds of things with Catalyst, but although part of me thinks just despair and be sad because Apple
00:40:50 ◼ ► doesn't care, I'm going to say that they got to improve something in Mac Catalyst, right? And
00:40:57 ◼ ► that's got to be something that they sell for a new version of macOS, that Mac Catalyst is better
00:41:01 ◼ ► in some way. So, you know, in some form, saying that Mac Catalyst is better is my pick.
00:41:21 ◼ ► Like, last year, the keynote. The thing is, they made a big deal of it the year before,
00:41:26 ◼ ► and they didn't have a lot new to say other than, "Yep, here it is." But now it's been a year of
00:41:31 ◼ ► developers using it, so now would be the revision year. But I agree with you, the alternate way to
00:41:37 ◼ ► read this, and that's why the other item was there, is they've already moved on to Swift UI,
00:41:41 ◼ ► they don't care. Catalyst is just going to be what it is, and if that's not good enough, too bad,
00:41:45 ◼ ► move to something else. But I'm hopeful that they will have, at least pay lip service to the idea
00:41:51 ◼ ► that Mac Catalyst could be a little better. I mean, so if people cast their mind back to
00:41:55 ◼ ► Mark Gurman's original report about all of this stuff, one of the things that was mentioned is
00:42:03 ◼ ► that the second year would see iPhone apps coming to Mac Catalyst. Exactly. So I'm wrapping that in
00:42:13 ◼ ► here too as a possible. That would be an improvement of Mac Catalyst, should that happen. Oh, it'd be a
00:42:17 ◼ ► big one. I'd be super intrigued to see how they would handle that, if that's what they do, but
00:42:22 ◼ ► that could be your big thing, right? Like, that could be it, and that would be a definite improvement,
00:42:27 ◼ ► and it would be something worth talking about on stage. For people who don't know, Mac Catalyst is
00:42:32 ◼ ► this technology that lets people who have developed apps from iOS, and specifically the iPad,
00:42:37 ◼ ► to bring a lot of that over. It's basically providing a bunch of the programming interfaces
00:42:44 ◼ ► from the iPad on the Mac, so you can take your, theoretically, you take your iPad app, and with
00:42:50 ◼ ► some work, you can turn it into a Mac app without having to do what you used to have to do, which is
00:42:54 ◼ ► essentially rewrite it for the Mac. Now you can bring it over, and there are some apps out there
00:43:00 ◼ ► that do it. Some do it better than others. A couple of Apple's apps use this technology. It could be a
00:43:07 ◼ ► lot better. There are ways to work around it, but again, it could be a lot better, and the people I
00:43:12 ◼ ► know who are developers who are working on Catalyst apps are very interested in the possibility that
00:43:18 ◼ ► Apple might fix some of the problems with it so that they could not focus on workarounds there,
00:43:26 ◼ ► My fourth pick in the draft is new Apple Watch faces. Oh, that is an easy pick, right? That's
00:43:33 ◼ ► a pretty easy pick. They're always new Watch. I think I picked it last year, so it's a,
00:43:36 ◼ ► it's a gimme. It's a good one. Yeah, I just feel like it's going to happen, and you know,
00:43:41 ◼ ► I don't really know what they're going to be. Again, like, what I would love is, personally,
00:43:46 ◼ ► I don't want new Apple Watch faces. I want the ability to then have them much more customizable
00:43:51 ◼ ► than they currently are, right? Like, I don't need Apple to keep delivering new designs to me. What
00:43:56 ◼ ► I want, honestly, is like a tool to build my own Watch faces from components that they provide.
00:44:06 ◼ ► underscore David Smith's Watch Smith application, right, where you can make your own complications.
00:44:17 ◼ ► because it's like, I really like this design, but I want to add this complication type,
00:44:22 ◼ ► but you don't let me do that, even though there's space for that, right? So that's the kind of stuff
00:44:27 ◼ ► that I want to see Apple do, but I don't think it's what I'm going to get, but I do imagine them
00:44:32 ◼ ► always to continue to add new Apple Watch faces of some description, and I think that the 2020
00:44:38 ◼ ► WWDC will be no different. There are always new Apple Watch faces. They're always kind of
00:44:45 ◼ ► underwhelming, but I agree. That's a good pick. What is your fifth pick, Jason? I'm gonna go with
00:44:54 ◼ ► an Apple Watch 1.2. You've inspired me, and I'm going to say that last year in the fall,
00:44:59 ◼ ► they announced the new Apple Watch Series 5 has always-on Watch faces, and they're okay.
00:45:06 ◼ ► They're not great. They have some issues, so I feel like this is a natural time for them to improve
00:45:12 ◼ ► the always-on Watch face design, perhaps give better choices over what gets displayed, or maybe
00:45:20 ◼ ► the content is better, maybe the complications have more ability to display things there,
00:45:24 ◼ ► maybe it's user settings, because definitely there have been some complaints about, you know,
00:45:29 ◼ ► you're doing certain tasks, and the always-on face is this boring face and not the face you want,
00:45:34 ◼ ► because you've got an activity going. So I'm just going to say improvements to the always-on
00:45:40 ◼ ► mode of Watch faces, because there are plenty they could do, and this is their opportunity to
00:45:45 ◼ ► take a second cut at that, because they just launched that feature with the Watch in the
00:45:50 ◼ ► fall last year. I would like to see it. I would like to see them really, for me, like just mirror
00:45:58 ◼ ► the UI, right? Like stop making it look different. Like, I don't want it to dim. I kind of want it to
00:46:03 ◼ ► do more. That would be a good thing for me, like to keep the color that I've chosen, you know,
00:46:07 ◼ ► that kind of stuff. I would like that. I'm going to go for my fifth draft pick, enhancements to
00:46:13 ◼ ► messages. That's one that I think we're going to see. So this could be, I don't know, if you want
00:46:22 ◼ ► me to pick here, Jason, whether it should be on a specific platform or not, what do you think?
00:46:29 ◼ ► MATT WILSON Yeah, let me keep it in iOS then. I think we're going to see enhancements to messages
00:46:32 ◼ ► on iOS. There was a report of this before about like basically having a lot more control in group
00:46:39 ◼ ► chats. So being able to @ mention someone in a group chat and people get notifications for that,
00:46:44 ◼ ► whilst being able to keep the notifications muted, right? So you're not getting notified for every
00:46:49 ◼ ► message, but just when somebody @s you. And also typing indicators, kind of like a Discord or a
00:46:54 ◼ ► Slack. So you can see if in a group message somebody's typing to you. That kind of stuff
00:46:59 ◼ ► would be great. I'd love to see that. There is, you know, as I was thinking about it, right, like
00:47:04 ◼ ► if they do these enhancements to messages anywhere, they're going to do them everywhere. So I'm happy
00:47:08 ◼ ► to just say like on iOS and we'll see where it goes. But I would love to see those features find
00:47:12 ◼ ► its way to messages. I'm in a couple of group chats that are quite busy, so I have to mute them,
00:47:18 ◼ ► but then people can't get my attention, right? And so I would like to have a mixture there. And I
00:47:28 ◼ ► I would love to see it in group chats too. Yep, sounds good. Well, have you got the pick six?
00:47:50 ◼ ► of the apple park ring in the background is fine. Something we see the inside of apple park,
00:47:59 ◼ ► like in all these infomercial videos. So I'm sort of picking the infomercial, but I'm sort of not.
00:48:03 ◼ ► I just, uh, we see the inside of apple park in some video somewhere. I have this as my sixth pick
00:48:19 ◼ ► even if they have Tim on a stage somewhere, not everybody's going to be presenting from the same
00:48:24 ◼ ► place because you can't have that happen. Like I even think we may not see two individuals
00:48:35 ◼ ► you can make as no apple executives actually appear on screen together. Right. It's a pick.
00:48:41 ◼ ► You could do that. Not high up on my list because it's a complicated pick. I feel like even if they
00:48:46 ◼ ► do the stagecraft, I, everything that they've done since the pandemic started has involved shots
00:48:52 ◼ ► because it's so beautiful shots from inside apple park with the interior ring. That's just those
00:48:58 ◼ ► trees and water and stuff, uh, in the background. Cause it's beautiful. Why would you not do it?
00:49:04 ◼ ► I have a hard time believing that nothing in this presentation will show that off. Even if there's a
00:49:08 ◼ ► stage somewhere, by the way, if the stage is inside the ring, I win that pick there too. But
00:49:14 ◼ ► if they do a stage, if they do it on the Steve jobs theater stage, let's say I, I'm still betting that
00:49:19 ◼ ► there will be some video that happens that shows the apple park ring. Cause it's just too good.
00:49:23 ◼ ► I expect as well, it's probably been a little easier to do filming there. If they've done stuff
00:49:30 ◼ ► in advance, which I expect there'll be some stuff that's been prerecorded at least because there's
00:49:39 ◼ ► wanted to use the outside space for filming and stuff like that, they've probably been able to do
00:49:44 ◼ ► that or use different conference rooms or whatever, however they've done it or inside spaces. Um,
00:49:49 ◼ ► because you know, we, again, we have potential picks as to whether we think this will be presented
00:49:54 ◼ ► as a live thing or not. Uh, probably going to be a mixture of both if there's going to be any live.
00:49:59 ◼ ► I can't imagine they would do it all live because why would you, when you have the opportunity to
00:50:03 ◼ ► have prerecorded stuff, if you want to exactly, it is a, it would be a fun stunt to have it be
00:50:09 ◼ ► outside on the interior of the apple park ring on that stage live. But I don't think that's
00:50:16 ◼ ► going to happen because they want to control it more than they could. They could do it live from
00:50:20 ◼ ► that stage and have a socially distanced audience and have them people coming out one at a time.
00:50:26 ◼ ► Uh, you could do it, but I don't think they will. So my sixth pick in the WWDC 2020 draft is updates
00:50:35 ◼ ► to Swift UI. That's a good one. I mean, it was, it was just announced, so you would think they
00:50:41 ◼ ► are doing more work on it. Maybe it gets the catalyst treatment, but, uh, I don't think so.
00:50:47 ◼ ► I mean, even if it did get the catalyst treatment, it still meant updates or mentioned or whatever,
00:50:58 ◼ ► than catalyst is. Um, like catalyst is a thing for now, Swift UI is a thing for the future. And
00:51:06 ◼ ► I think that they're going to want to continue to evangelize this to developers. And, you know,
00:51:11 ◼ ► I expect it will get much more time in the state of the union, but I think will be mentioned again,
00:51:17 ◼ ► uh, on stage with some updates, like here's what we're doing for Swift UI as part of the
00:51:21 ◼ ► keynote presentation as well. Even if it's just like a small thing, I mean, this could be honestly
00:51:26 ◼ ► something that we see in a word cloud, but I would expect apple will have something to say
00:51:37 ◼ ► it's a good, good chance of happening. And, uh, I hope that, uh, it makes people happy because
00:51:43 ◼ ► the feedback we've gotten from developers is Swift UI is very exciting. But then when you start to do
00:51:47 ◼ ► things with it, you think, oh, it's, you know, right. They, they run into the, the, the limitations
00:51:52 ◼ ► of it pretty quickly. So it could definitely use, um, more visible progress, right. To make
00:51:58 ◼ ► developers feel better about where Apple's going with it. This episode is also brought to you by
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00:53:22 ◼ ► this show and all of Relay FM. All right, we are approaching the home stretch. As I said earlier,
00:53:52 ◼ ► Unless they're fooling us, right? And they're like, oh yeah, not this time. That's too stale.
00:53:57 ◼ ► We're not going to do that again, but I'm going to pick it because it just seems like there's
00:54:02 ◼ ► In a year when Memoji are front and center in the WWDC marketing, you would expect them to have
00:54:22 ◼ ► And I'm going to say that we will see a focus on mental health features for the Apple Watch.
00:54:38 ◼ ► the highest like marketing point now for the Apple Watch is the health and fitness stuff.
00:54:55 ◼ ► I've seen people say expand that into maybe more of like a guided meditation type stuff.
00:55:00 ◼ ► And I think that the world right now has shown that people could probably do with this stuff.
00:55:13 ◼ ► some new mental health features for, uh, watchOS. Is this seven? WatchOS seven or eight?
00:55:22 ◼ ► Yeah. I think that is a little bit of a risky pick, but I think I can see how they would
00:55:29 ◼ ► This, this could be something that they need new sensors for, right? Like I'm very aware of that,
00:55:33 ◼ ► but, but I think that there could be an element of, we have some stuff that we can talk about
00:55:38 ◼ ► this in software and then maybe some stuff that is going to be hardware related announced later
00:55:54 ◼ ► will actually be discussed on stage. And that's why I'm picking it because I think it's, it's risky,
00:56:03 ◼ ► The Siri could use some improvements. And I don't know whether this is specifically like,
00:56:09 ◼ ► we've added a bunch of ways for apps to talk to Siri or whether it's, we fixed the Siri
00:56:14 ◼ ► backend services so that they work better. But I want somebody on stage or in the presentation
00:56:19 ◼ ► somewhere, cause there may not even be a stage to say we've made some aspect of Siri better,
00:56:25 ◼ ► like any aspect of Siri, acknowledging that it could be made better and has been made better.
00:56:32 ◼ ► I do wonder if that's this year. I mean, we've heard recently of Apple buying some companies
00:56:40 ◼ ► They keep buying companies. They keep putting it in people in charge of it. They keep doing
00:56:51 ◼ ► I know. See that's so much so true in this draft. For me, what made me pick this is that
00:56:57 ◼ ► it's broad enough that if there is a targeted way that apps can respond to Siri better on one of the
00:57:02 ◼ ► platforms, then I'm going to count it as an improvement to Siri, because I think the bigger
00:57:07 ◼ ► question is, are they really going to improve Siri? So I'm going to say yes in some way,
00:57:15 ◼ ► Okay. So my next pick, this is round eight, right? Yeah. Okay. Focus on performance and
00:57:28 ◼ ► There was a very strong chance that they were going to go with a reference to improving
00:57:34 ◼ ► performance and stability because iOS 13 was not good. Right? It was one of the buggiest iOS
00:57:42 ◼ ► versions for a long time through the whole beta cycle and then into release to the point that the
00:57:47 ◼ ► iPhone shipped without 13 on it. Remember that? So I, you know, this is a, oh no, they shipped,
00:57:54 ◼ ► sorry. 13.0 that only ever appeared on that iPhone. Yeah. But it was only on that iPhone.
00:58:00 ◼ ► The other devices did not get 13 and it was very clear that it got 13 because it had to have 13
00:58:05 ◼ ► to run and the iPhones were going out the door. Right? So I think they would have, no matter what
00:58:12 ◼ ► said it was a performance and stability release for iOS this year. And then I also assume it's,
00:58:17 ◼ ► I think it's fair to assume there's probably some features for iOS that have got pushed this year
00:58:21 ◼ ► because of all of the, I'm sure huge complexities Apple's had in trying to move their team home.
00:58:28 ◼ ► And, and it seems like there might be some other big stuff, right? Like we expect potentially the
00:58:32 ◼ ► arm transition stuff. We expect big improvements to iPadOS. The iPhone iOS experience can be,
00:58:39 ◼ ► can be put on ice a bit for a year. It's going to get some stuff, right? If they get messages,
00:58:43 ◼ ► they get Memoji, they get regular emoji, they get other things that we're going to talk about
00:58:47 ◼ ► here today. That's fine. Right? Like that's like what iOS 12 was and it will do its thing.
00:59:01 ◼ ► So I think, and I honestly think it will make people happy, right? Like people want to see that
00:59:06 ◼ ► and I think it will make this release much more stable at a time when Apple will need that
00:59:16 ◼ ► that's a pattern now, right? Tough release, stability release, tough release, stability
00:59:22 ◼ ► release. Okay. Well, for my ninth pick, I'm going to go with some bad news for people who love
00:59:38 ◼ ► no game demos. Oh, now part of that is that how do you do game demos in a prerecorded or whatever
00:59:51 ◼ ► Game demos are better served at the iPhone event anyway. My risk here is that there's some AR game
00:59:57 ◼ ► that they show. But you know what? If I don't get this right, I just want to say no game demos
01:00:04 ◼ ► because just sort of out of spite because they're boring. So no game demos. I've decreed it.
01:00:23 ◼ ► Apple Arcade exists. They're going to want to keep showing it. It's true. AR might exist. They're
01:00:38 ◼ ► something. All right. And or just have some footage of a game playing and somebody talking
01:00:46 ◼ ► about it. I think game demos are very possible. And let's just hear before we end up with problems
01:00:54 ◼ ► later. Jason, what counts as a game demo? Yeah, this is what we need to get. So now in our list,
01:01:00 ◼ ► what you picked was called game demos with guests from game studios. So there, not only do they have
01:01:05 ◼ ► to show gameplay, but there needs to be somebody. It can't just be a person from Apple saying,
01:01:10 ◼ ► we've got great games like this game on Apple Arcade. Right. Um, I, I think a game demo is
01:01:17 ◼ ► somebody showing somebody actually playing the game, not just rolling a trailer of footage from
01:01:23 ◼ ► the game. Right. So somebody has to be like, I'm here with the game and look, Oh, I just died. Oh,
01:01:30 ◼ ► no. That is what a game demo is. If we can say it's a little, just if I can maybe twist it just a tad,
01:01:36 ◼ ► it can be prerecorded footage, but there has to be some kind of context being given from somebody
01:01:42 ◼ ► who's not an Apple employee. Okay. I'm going to actually split this so that we could both get it
01:01:46 ◼ ► wrong, which is I'm going to say for me, I need to, we need to see somebody actually playing the
01:01:52 ◼ ► game. It can't just be footage. Somebody has to play the game. That is a game. We can call it game
01:01:58 ◼ ► play demo. If you want for you, you just need a guest from a game studio. Okay. And, and showing,
01:02:06 ◼ ► I mean, of course, if they're going to, if there's a guest from a game studio, they're going to be
01:02:09 ◼ ► showing some footage from their game, but they don't have to, that doesn't have to be game play.
01:02:12 ◼ ► How about that? All right. So your pick is okay. We need to, we need to reestablish this now because
01:02:18 ◼ ► it maybe made this a little bit more complicated because no game play demos and game presentations
01:02:24 ◼ ► from guests at game studios. We could both get that pick, right? We could, or we could both get
01:02:28 ◼ ► it wrong, but yes. Okay. No, I guess we couldn't get it wrong. Well, no, we could anyway. So there
01:02:34 ◼ ► it is showdown in round nine. That one's going to be, that round is going to be tricky to school.
01:02:53 ◼ ► let's stop everything. Let's stop time and then sit there while somebody plays a video game.
01:02:58 ◼ ► I'm going to say no. And for me, there just has to be a presentation of some description with
01:03:11 ◼ ► that one's going to be funny. That one's going to be a funny one to, uh, to pick. All right.
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01:05:22 ◼ ► and all of Relay FM. The last pick, draft pick number 10. Jason, what are you going to do to
01:05:29 ◼ ► bring this one home? I'm going to make, so I have right now a bunch of different picks that are
01:05:41 ◼ ► related to each other, all of which are about the ARM transition and are developers as they were for
01:05:50 ◼ ► the Intel transition going to be given or, you know, sold, made available to them some kind of
01:05:56 ◼ ► ARM hardware on which ARM Mac OS can run. A lot of conversation about this. Could it be on a
01:06:05 ◼ ► secret ARM processor on a new iMac? Could it be on a developer transition kit that is a one-off
01:06:14 ◼ ► that's never sold to people that's like a Mac Mini or an Apple TV? It's just for developers.
01:06:19 ◼ ► Would they let you install it on an iPad Pro and turn it into a really weird Mac just for
01:06:26 ◼ ► development purposes? A lot of debate out there. I've decided to make my pick that a one-off ARM
01:06:35 ◼ ► transition hardware device, something that's for developers but is not available to the general
01:06:40 ◼ ► public, will not be offered. Whoa, Jason Snow. Also, by the way, if there's no ARM transition,
01:06:49 ◼ ► I'm right. I just put that out there. If there's no ARM transition, that's good. I'm right. But
01:06:55 ◼ ► here's my feeling, which is there are so many Apple developers now that I have decided to bet
01:07:01 ◼ ► against Apple committing to making a large number of these. And if they make a small number of them,
01:07:07 ◼ ► it's going to be a debacle because people who need them are not going to be able to get them.
01:07:11 ◼ ► It would be nice to have transition hardware. I have a hard time imagining Apple going through
01:07:19 ◼ ► the motions of having transition hardware that's essentially temporary that they're handing to
01:07:23 ◼ ► developers. I feel like they will either have a better option or no option rather than this
01:07:28 ◼ ► option. So that's what I'm going to do. I like this better than the other two and I wanted to
01:07:32 ◼ ► pick an ARM transition hardware story. So this is it. This is very bold, Jason. Like, I could
01:07:38 ◼ ► even call that a risky pick. There's a Ricky right there because it's a Ricky. I feel like
01:07:47 ◼ ► the idea of there being transition hardware is just considered a given amongst everyone.
01:07:53 ◼ ► When we're talking about this. Isn't it? I agree. And the more I thought about it, I was like,
01:08:04 ◼ ► hardware are also pretty decent, I would say. But I think the just betting against it entirely
01:08:13 ◼ ► is because then I get the either it's an existing computer like an iPad Pro or they just don't do it
01:08:19 ◼ ► and say it's fine. It's all going to be fine. But I know it's also the 10th round, Myke. And so
01:08:25 ◼ ► consider this my spinal tap pick if you like. Yeah, well, I, I'm, this is not my pick, but I
01:08:30 ◼ ► just wanted to double down on something I said, I think last week or the week before. I'm convinced
01:08:34 ◼ ► that if Apple do offer ARM transition hardware, it will be a Mac mini. That's what I think it's
01:08:39 ◼ ► going to be if they do it. The more I thought about that, the more sense it makes to me.
01:08:49 ◼ ► The Mac mini would be the easiest, I'm sure to replace the hardware inside. Right? Like it's a,
01:08:58 ◼ ► it's a box stand, you know, it would much easier than trying to offer a laptop, right? Like that
01:09:03 ◼ ► kind of side. That's what I think that they would do. I agree. I think in terms of hardware, that's
01:09:08 ◼ ► the one that makes the most sense because the shape, because the shape is all that matters.
01:09:12 ◼ ► So having a little thing that you can send out to people with, uh, you know, a 12 Z or whatever on
01:09:18 ◼ ► it is that's, that is a perfectly legitimate idea. That's probably the most likely transition bit of
01:09:26 ◼ ► hardware that they would offer. But again, are they going to do that? Are they going to put together
01:09:30 ◼ ► a whole program where developers pay them to send a, you know, a loan thing like they did for Intel?
01:09:35 ◼ ► Maybe that would be a repeat of what they did 15 years ago. I don't know if Apple is going to
01:09:40 ◼ ► repeat what they did 15 years ago, but Hey, 10th round room for a bold pick in there. I think we
01:09:45 ◼ ► will have a good ball pick. Ooh, man, man. I'm really excited about the way that we see now,
01:09:53 ◼ ► now that we're getting through this. All right. Okay. Uh, I don't know whether to go bold or
01:09:58 ◼ ► boring. Jason, what should I do? A bold or boring 10th round is 10th rounds. A great place for bold
01:10:03 ◼ ► picks. Myke. Oh man. I have a very good boring one. I'm going to go bold. I'm going to go bold.
01:10:11 ◼ ► I'm going to go bold. No, I don't know how bold to go. Do I go bold as in, okay. So I have a boring
01:10:20 ◼ ► pick. I have a bold pick. Think about the glory. If you get the bold pick right. I know. All right.
01:10:25 ◼ ► Boring pick. I have a bold pick that has been rumored and a bold pick that has been rumored,
01:10:36 ◼ ► I'd go with a bold italic. All right. I'm going to go with the middle one. I'm going to go with
01:10:43 ◼ ► bold, but has been rumored that there will be third party wallpaper packs as a new thing
01:10:49 ◼ ► available in iOS. You sure that's not the boring pick? All right. Okay. Forget it. Forget that one.
01:10:55 ◼ ► Forget that one. Take it out of here. That was my, that was my semi bold pick, but clearly not
01:11:01 ◼ ► enough. Now see, now I have a couple of other things that I want to pick from here. Oh, you
01:11:06 ◼ ► know what? I'm going to go mega bold, Jason. New Apple display. Oh, Myke, you know, that was almost
01:11:15 ◼ ► my pick here. That was almost my pick here. So tell me about it. Cause I had my whole presentation
01:11:21 ◼ ► worked out for that, but I decided not to go there. I wasn't as bold as you. If we are assuming
01:11:26 ◼ ► there will be a new iMac, that new iMac is not going to look like the iMac that it is replacing.
01:11:32 ◼ ► I think we can all feel that that feels pretty confident at this point that if they are going to
01:11:36 ◼ ► give keynote presentation time to an iMac, that thing is going to have one of those wild, like
01:11:44 ◼ ► zoom in in pan and across the hardware, like zoom in. You know what I mean? Like one of those,
01:11:49 ◼ ► like, Oh, you could never imagine such a thing. Right. And they heard rumors of, and we spoke,
01:11:54 ◼ ► we didn't speak about this. That came out in the intervening time since our last episode,
01:11:58 ◼ ► that there's a rumor of a new iMac coming with the similar design cues to the 2020 iPad. Right.
01:12:05 ◼ ► We've talked about it before, but yeah, that, that is a thing that's out there now is that
01:12:10 ◼ ► they may finally, the rumor is, and this is why I picked it, that they're, they're finally going to
01:12:14 ◼ ► do their redesigned iMac because the exterior of the iMac hasn't changed in like seven years or
01:12:21 ◼ ► something. And now let's look at the previous picks in this draft. You have a new iMac,
01:12:32 ◼ ► into an LG display. And let's remember that last year, the fancy display came out with lots of
01:12:40 ◼ ► laughter about how expensive it was and the thousand dollar stand and all of that. And we've
01:12:45 ◼ ► all been talking since then about how the hole in Apple's lineup is that they're not making a good
01:12:50 ◼ ► external display. That's not a reference display. It doesn't cost that much. And that they could
01:12:54 ◼ ► still sell it. They could design something. It would look great with Apple hardware. They could
01:12:58 ◼ ► sell it with an obscene amount of, of profit margin. And it would still sell a lot to a lot
01:13:06 ◼ ► of people, including a lot of people who have like Mac pros and are not interested in a studio
01:13:11 ◼ ► reference display. Plus yes, throw in the iPad, throw in other Macs that could use it. I think,
01:13:33 ◼ ► but also don't want to lose the draft. That's the best kind of thing. Cause it's a thing that if you
01:13:36 ◼ ► get a point, but it's something I, I, that delights me, the worst is when you get a point and it's
01:13:41 ◼ ► something I don't like that happens. That I don't like. I would much prefer for you to get a point
01:13:45 ◼ ► on things that make me happy. I think it's time for Apple to reenter the display business.
01:14:00 ◼ ► again opens the door for them to have a lower range product. And you know, if we really want
01:14:05 ◼ ► to keep talking through this, like if they're going to offer a Mac mini with an arm chip inside of it
01:14:11 ◼ ► for developers, it would also be another reason to also have a monitor. You can sell them.
01:14:25 ◼ ► if you want a second display, it matches from a design perspective. There is a lot of potential
01:14:36 ◼ ► So in a moment, I will tell you what my boring one was that I actually wanted to pick in the
01:14:43 ◼ ► 10th round, but we have a bonus round. So there is an 11th bonus round and that is, this is a
01:14:49 ◼ ► difficult one. I think it's especially difficult for me, easier for Jason. I was thinking of this
01:14:53 ◼ ► last night, pick the name of the next version of Mac OS. Can I go first? Can I go first? Because
01:15:02 ◼ ► you do have an advantage here in that you live in California and I know nothing about California.
01:15:09 ◼ ► Yeah. I basically predicted something in sort of half-heartedly in my macro column last week,
01:15:15 ◼ ► but go ahead. I'm going to pick the name. I saw this mentioned in the relay FM members discord
01:15:21 ◼ ► last night while I was thinking about this, someone was talking about it. This was not on my list. I
01:15:25 ◼ ► didn't know anything about this place. I'd heard the word before and then Googled it and was like,
01:15:30 ◼ ► that makes sense. I'm going to go with Mac OS Avalon. That's what I picked last week on the
01:15:35 ◼ ► Mac world columns. Okay. Yay. So Avalon is a place. It's the city on Santa Catalina Island. It is the
01:15:46 ◼ ► city on that Island. So if you were going to do a mountain lion, snow leopard, high Sierra kind of
01:15:55 ◼ ► reveal Avalon, not only a pleasant name in a lot of ways, but directly relates to Catalina. So it
01:16:05 ◼ ► makes sense. There was a part of me though, that was wondering if I would want to pick something
01:16:09 ◼ ► else because like they might want to make a big deal of this. This could be a big version of Mac
01:16:14 ◼ ► OS, you know, even if it is just like, Oh, because during this version of Mac OS arm chips will exist
01:16:22 ◼ ► and they may want to give it a bigger name for that reason was another thing that was like,
01:16:27 ◼ ► I don't think that it is as easy this time to pick that they will make the like tick tock of the
01:16:35 ◼ ► naming that they've been doing, right. Where they pick a big name and then a name that relates to
01:16:39 ◼ ► that place, you know, like snow Catalina or whatever. Um, like I, I, you know, so I still
01:16:45 ◼ ► think whilst there is some logic to Avalon, it's still a risk. What do you think it is? And I'll
01:16:50 ◼ ► tell you the two other names that I thought. All right. So my backup beyond Avalon is another
01:16:57 ◼ ► Channel Islands Island, which is San Clemente, which is also the name of a city in, uh, in Orange
01:17:03 ◼ ► County. It's a beautiful city. Um, and so San Clemente is a pleasant, it will make people
01:17:10 ◼ ► pronounce things with Spanish place names like El Capitan, and you'll just have to deal with it.
01:17:15 ◼ ► And, uh, it's my fallback because I thought I also think, could we come up with a theme that follows
01:17:22 ◼ ► on Catalina rather than completely erasing it? Cause I think it's better, more likely than not,
01:17:29 ◼ ► let's say that Apple views this edition of Mac OS as a, you know, we're taking a year to tighten
01:17:37 ◼ ► everything up and it's not a heavy feature year. Um, so that would be the kind of name you'd use.
01:17:42 ◼ ► What else do you have? Sequoia. Sure. It's another national park. And Santa Cruz. Mm-hmm.
01:17:48 ◼ ► That's a, that is, uh, not only like San Clemente, it's a city and also one of the channel, channel
01:17:53 ◼ ► islands. So could, could be. I just think that, uh, both of those sound really nice. So what do
01:18:00 ◼ ► you get for the bonus round? You get a bonus point? It's a point. It's a full point. All right.
01:18:04 ◼ ► Yeah. Well, I'll be very sad if it's Avalon given that I let you go first and you pick the name that
01:18:10 ◼ ► I wrote last week. So, okay. Okay. Well, I will say I didn't remember it. I actually hadn't read
01:18:15 ◼ ► that column yet. It's in my notes and for the next episode, but we don't need that. Do we? Cause, uh,
01:18:19 ◼ ► thank you for Avalon. Yeah. You're welcome. Should we talk about what we didn't pick? Do you want to
01:18:26 ◼ ► know what my actual 10th round pick was? Yeah. Improvements to FaceTime. Improvements to FaceTime.
01:18:32 ◼ ► Like Siri, it could use improvement. Yeah. And also is like, you know, would, would be a thing
01:18:39 ◼ ► that people would especially want. Now it would be a thing that I'm sure has bumped its way up
01:18:44 ◼ ► Apple's priority list. Right. Because they've already done some stuff. They've already made
01:18:55 ◼ ► it wasn't like improvements as much as it was fixing something that was annoying people,
01:18:59 ◼ ► uh, which was the, the, in group chats, the, uh, bubbles changing size and moving around.
01:19:05 ◼ ► Um, they gave you the ability to turn that off. I don't really know what improvements to FaceTime
01:19:09 ◼ ► would be exactly, but I mean, honestly, I could imagine them just making an almost Zoom grid, like
01:19:16 ◼ ► display option, you know? Um, but, but yeah, we'll, we'll see on that one. I'm not sure.
01:19:22 ◼ ► I had a couple left since you took the display, which I didn't pick in my last round. So it was
01:19:29 ◼ ► there for the taking, but that was literally my other way to go. Um, I had a couple of meta picks
01:19:34 ◼ ► that I was thinking of seriously. I didn't want to overload the draft with too much presentation.
01:19:39 ◼ ► Even though I'm very curious about the presentation. So I had a photo or video of a past
01:19:45 ◼ ► WWDC in San Jose. So like trying to remind, remind you of the good times basically, and be like,
01:19:55 ◼ ► I know we can't do it this year, but remember the good times and remember when there were people
01:20:00 ◼ ► in, in a convention center and outside on the streets and wasn't that nice. So, uh, I was,
01:20:06 ◼ ► I was going to pick that, but I decided not to go that meta. And then the one that I think is a
01:20:10 ◼ ► reach, but it struck me actually over the weekend. Um, I was taking a walk and, you know, had my,
01:20:16 ◼ ► had my mask with me and all of that. And I thought, well, I imagine that the presentation
01:20:23 ◼ ► will acknowledge, uh, protests and the black lives matter movement. Um, I would also imagine that,
01:20:37 ◼ ► related new announcement. And I think it might happen. I don't have any information about this,
01:20:43 ◼ ► but the idea that perhaps there is something going on in the background where Apple is working,
01:20:48 ◼ ► it could be as simple as we're releasing our tracking, you know, our tracking app today,
01:21:00 ◼ ► or it could be, uh, we're announcing that we're working with these countries or these states or
01:21:06 ◼ ► whatever, that there will be some kind of we're announcing as a part of this event that we're
01:21:12 ◼ ► doing all of this other stuff that you didn't know about regarding COVID-19. Um, or it could even be
01:21:17 ◼ ► like we're donating or we're, you know, but a new COVID-19 related announcement. That was one that I
01:21:28 ◼ ► I have two others that I want to mention. I have more on my list, but there's stuff that we've
01:21:33 ◼ ► spoken about a bit in the last couple of weeks anyway, you know, like keyboard stuff and that
01:21:38 ◼ ► kind of stuff for the iPad. Uh, one is new iPad hardware, some description. Um, I think we could
01:21:44 ◼ ► like how we see an iMac. We could see an update to the regular iPads here. Um, or an iPad mini,
01:21:50 ◼ ► something like that. There have been lots of rumors of, of some, uh, some new stuff going on here.
01:21:55 ◼ ► We could see that now as we rolled that into a pick that was new iPad hardware. Cause it could
01:22:00 ◼ ► be the air or the mini or the nameless iPad or whatever. I think that it, I mean, they're never
01:22:07 ◼ ► bad time to update an iPad, so maybe so. And then the last thing is a new podcasting initiative.
01:22:16 ◼ ► I don't have any sense as to whether Apple's doing something. I just want to say that completely up
01:22:24 ◼ ► front, right? Like, I don't know, right? Like if they're working on something, they haven't told
01:22:27 ◼ ► me what it is, but I do think that if Apple are working on something related to podcasting,
01:22:35 ◼ ► something that may establish them or again, or try and put up some fight against Spotify,
01:22:42 ◼ ► they might want to talk about it now. Right. So I have no idea what they're going to do there,
01:22:57 ◼ ► something to, to talk about. I don't know what it might be. This is more than just like, Hey,
01:23:00 ◼ ► we updated the podcast app, but like some, some real stuff that they might want to talk about,
01:23:05 ◼ ► but I could also imagine this thing existing, but as a session at WWDC, which I've done before,
01:23:12 ◼ ► they had a podcasting session last time. Uh, over the last couple of years, they've announced like
01:23:16 ◼ ► analytics stuff in those sessions. Uh, but I think that this could be something maybe a little bit
01:23:20 ◼ ► bigger, but, uh, I haven't, you know, there's a lot of smoke around this, right. Apple have been
01:23:26 ◼ ► hiring people for podcasting. I had the Apple news audio announced on my list as well. And that's
01:23:33 ◼ ► not pod, not quite podcasting, but it's related this like audio stuff that they're doing audio
01:23:38 ◼ ► initiative. We probably could have rolled it all together and like a new audio initiative and it
01:23:42 ◼ ► would have counted for both. Um, and it might've been a better choice to pick, but yeah, there's
01:23:47 ◼ ► a lot of rumbling and this could be, I was really unclear about services in general. Like how much
01:23:54 ◼ ► are they going to pollute the WWDC keynote with services, especially since this is something that
01:24:00 ◼ ► I keep thinking about about this event is it's a, it's an event that'll get people watching.
01:24:06 ◼ ► So it's an Apple event. That's worth announcing things. If you've got them at the same time,
01:24:10 ◼ ► it's also a completely virtual event. Apple could do another one of these as a press event
01:24:14 ◼ ► at any time, right? Like once they do this, they could come back in six weeks and just do a press
01:24:19 ◼ ► event and everybody gets to watch it live. Right. So, uh, do they address services deeply or do they
01:24:26 ◼ ► not because it's a developer audience. And I think that there again are strong arguments, both ways,
01:24:31 ◼ ► which is why I am so fascinated by the stage craft of what they're going to ultimately do, because
01:24:36 ◼ ► there are lots of decisions to make. This could be the most developer focused event ever. I suspect
01:24:42 ◼ ► it won't be. I suspect that because people are going to be paying attention, they're going to
01:24:46 ◼ ► use this as an opportunity to roll out other stuff, including maybe an iMac. Right. But I do wonder,
01:24:51 ◼ ► because they could section that stuff off and do another event whenever, right? Especially if they
01:24:56 ◼ ► don't have to invite people, they just have to produce it because the services bundle is out
01:25:01 ◼ ► there as something that continues to be suggested and something they could talk about. But I think
01:25:06 ◼ ► about that and I think, are they really going to do that at WWDC? That would also be something you
01:25:09 ◼ ► could roll into the fall for an iPhone event because those are the two events, I think the
01:25:14 ◼ ► only two events we can count on this year. So even though they could do one on the drop of a hat if
01:25:18 ◼ ► they wanted to. So I didn't pick services or the Apple news audio stuff because I'm just not sure
01:25:24 ◼ ► how they're going to deal with that. Yeah. I, I, this could very easily be a September thing,
01:25:33 ◼ ► right? For the services bundle, uh, unless they have other stuff to announce. I don't know.
01:25:39 ◼ ► I also didn't, I actually wanted to pick the, there were a couple of watch entries that I was
01:25:44 ◼ ► really tempted to pick and didn't go with because I thought we were kind of overdoing it on the
01:25:48 ◼ ► watch, which to be honest, doesn't interest me that much, even though even as a watch user,
01:25:52 ◼ ► I'm like, and it was true independence from iPhone. That totally could happen. I doubt it
01:25:57 ◼ ► will happen, but it totally there they're on the precipice of letting you set up a watch. And
01:26:02 ◼ ► actually I have in my mind that I think one of these days, Apple is going to announce that I,
01:26:08 ◼ ► that Apple watch will support Android. I think that's going to happen. I think they're going to
01:26:12 ◼ ► just slide in there and say, we got it all baby. We're taking it over. Forget, forget all those
01:26:17 ◼ ► Android watches. We're not, we're going to just take it over. It's a wacky idea, but I'm like,
01:26:26 ◼ ► so it's so sad. Android wear has failed Apple watch to the rescue and it won't be as good as it will
01:26:31 ◼ ► be on an iPhone, but we'll let you do some basic, like, you know, notifications and things like that.
01:26:36 ◼ ► And mostly Apple watch is independent anyway, but it will talk to your Android phone when necessary.
01:26:41 ◼ ► Right. Because that's the next step after true independence is well, what if I'm an Android user?
01:26:46 ◼ ► It's like, okay, we can, we could do something for Android users. Um, I think that that's part
01:26:51 ◼ ► of that, but I don't know if they're ready to do that now, but I think they're going to get there,
01:27:01 ◼ ► I think we want them to let people redefine activity rings in some ways because not everybody
01:27:07 ◼ ► wants it. Those three, right? Like for me, the sit stand ring is dumb and I would rather,
01:27:18 ◼ ► The Android thing was initially sounds like a wild idea when you think about it, right? Like
01:27:23 ◼ ► people say, Oh no, you know, it's about being in the Apple ecosystem. Well, this then becomes a way
01:27:28 ◼ ► to give people a taste of the Apple ecosystem. It's like, look how great the Apple watch is with
01:27:33 ◼ ► your Android phone. By the way, it's so much better if you have an iPhone. I'll give one last
01:27:39 ◼ ► thing here, Jason, cause I'm just going to keep picking it now, whether it's in the draft or not.
01:27:44 ◼ ► It would just like, as a thing that I think has to happen at some point, air tags. They got to release
01:27:49 ◼ ► them at some point. Um, it could be now could be, uh, randomly in like July. It could be at September.
01:27:58 ◼ ► It could be November, but we know this product exists in some form. We've seen, you know,
01:28:04 ◼ ► everybody's seen like screenshots of code where it's mentioned. We've seen it on support documents.
01:28:09 ◼ ► They, this product exists. It's definitely a product in Apple's lineup. Uh, we're going to
01:28:14 ◼ ► have to wait and see if they do it now, but I think if they're doing other hardware, maybe,
01:28:21 ◼ ► maybe, maybe. All right. That is the draft. That is the upgrade WWDC 2020 draft in our show notes
01:28:29 ◼ ► today, you can find links to get a PDF scorecard and an interactive scorecard. So you can score
01:28:36 ◼ ► along with us during the keynote. And we will be back next week as soon going live as soon as we
01:28:42 ◼ ► can after the keynote and relay.fm/live or in the relay FM members discord. And then we'll get the
01:28:48 ◼ ► episode out as soon as we possibly can after the, uh, after we finished, right? Like I bust
01:28:54 ◼ ► as fast as I can to get that thing through. And if you are an upgrade plus member, thank you so much.
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