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302: The WWDC Keynote Draft 2020

 

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:14 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 302 and it is the WWDC draft for 2020. Today's episode is

00:00:24 ◼   ► brought to you by TextExpander from Smile, Pingdom, Linode and KiwiCo. My name is Myke Hurley and I

00:00:30 ◼   ► am joined by my friend, my compatriot and my combatant in the draft today, Mr. Jason Snow.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Hello, Jason Snow. Let's get ready to rumble! We will indeed. Oh god, it's Monday morning, I can't do that.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Big episode today and I am starting out this monumental episode of Upgrade with a first Jason.

00:00:50 ◼   ► I have two #snowtalk questions for you. Are you stalling? Are you afraid to get to the draft?

00:00:56 ◼   ► Are you afraid? Do you think that's what's happening here? Do you? Alright, pick number one. No, we're not gonna do that question.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Question one from Albert is, "Jason, aren't all lists kind of a draft?" Albert, you have cracked the code.

00:01:09 ◼   ► All lists are drafts and I have used on many podcasts, especially

00:01:16 ◼   ► the incomparable. In fact, I'm planning one of these right now. Draft format can be used as a way

00:01:23 ◼   ► to compile a fun list, right? Like that is a common way to do it. So I would recommend the

00:01:29 ◼   ► next time you're making a shopping list with the people you shop with in your household, maybe do it as a draft.

00:01:36 ◼   ► And Dan's question is, "Which is your favorite word of the homophones, draft or draft?" Draft meaning the

00:01:43 ◼   ► one we're doing now, or draft meaning like beer. Okay, well I think you did that wrong. It's d-r-a-f-t

00:01:49 ◼   ► and d-r-a-u-g-h-t and the answer is I'm an American. It's always spelled d-r-a-f-t. Is it? For beer too.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Yes it is. Huh, okay, I didn't know that. So like for us it basically looks like the word drought,

00:02:01 ◼   ► I guess, with an a instead of an o. But that's, there we go, we all learned something today.

00:02:07 ◼   ► Which one do you prefer though? Draft beer or draft drafts? Alright, don't make me pick.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Don't make me choose between my children. Okay, we can move on today. Thank you so much for

00:02:18 ◼   ► those Snail Talk questions. You can send in a tweet with the hashtag Snail Talk to help us

00:02:23 ◼   ► open the show. We have some very big news here around Upgrade today and that is the introduction

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00:02:43 ◼   ► an adaptation of the Real AFM membership program. So now if you choose to support Upgrade directly,

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00:03:02 ◼   ► today's episode, we're going to be kind of commiserating and kind of like looking at our

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00:07:05 ◼   ► like you can listen to our live stream. Yes, it's all there. Even the extra Upgrade Plus content is

00:07:10 ◼   ► streamed live still, so you can get it there, but not everybody can, not everybody will want to.

00:07:15 ◼   ► It's not an edited show, right? Like I know for me, I like edited shows and it will continue to

00:07:21 ◼   ► be that. So when you become an Upgrade Plus member, you'll hear a little bit of the music

00:07:25 ◼   ► and then the music fades out and then a whole new topic starts. So that's upgradeplus.com.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Right. And Upgrade Plus is the edited show, right? It's not a bootleg of the live stream. It is a

00:07:36 ◼   ► fully edited show, including the extra material. Yep. Yep. So very excited, very excited. And thank

00:07:41 ◼   ► you to everybody that signs up. So Apple have announced how WWDC is going to work.

00:07:46 ◼   ► So the keynote, uh, yeah, I know the keynote will be at 10 AM Pacific on Monday. Um,

00:07:53 ◼   ► it's worth noting that basically as soon as the keynote ends, we will be going live with

00:07:59 ◼   ► our kind of reactions episode to WWDC. So if you, I don't, obviously we don't know what time that

00:08:06 ◼   ► will be probably around noon Pacific, uh, at relay.fm/live. This is a great, if you become

00:08:13 ◼   ► a member, you get access to the relay.fm members discord. There's a great chat going on there all

00:08:18 ◼   ► the time. And you can listen to the live feed inside of there as well. You can also listen on

00:08:22 ◼   ► our website, but for me personally, I think that the discord is the best place to get that content.

00:08:28 ◼   ► So you can do that. I actually think as well that some of our discord mods are planning like a

00:08:33 ◼   ► watch along for the keynote as well. So that's a really awesome thing that they're looking at

00:08:39 ◼   ► trying to do. So yeah, we will be streaming the show live basically as soon as we can after the

00:08:44 ◼   ► keynote ends. Um, then the state of the union is at 2 PM. So we have some time, which is great.

00:08:50 ◼   ► I'm very pleased about that. Um, there's over a hundred session videos that are going to be

00:08:56 ◼   ► going up over the week. And this is interesting, but new videos will be going up at 10 AM Eastern,

00:09:03 ◼   ► sorry, 10 AM Pacific every day. It's a binge drop, isn't it? It's frustrating for me because

00:09:10 ◼   ► I will wait all day. Right. And then at 6 PM stuff will start happening. So this is going to

00:09:17 ◼   ► be the weird thing about WWDC for me at this time. Anyway, it's like, everything's going to be

00:09:21 ◼   ► happening so late in the day for me, which is, you know, maybe I'll just won't watch anything one day

00:09:27 ◼   ► and then just catch up on it all the next day or something. The next morning when we're all sleeping.

00:09:31 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah. That probably works. Um, an all new Apple developer forum is coming on June 18th.

00:09:37 ◼   ► I'm fascinated to see what this is going to look like. Uh, during the week of WWDC over a

00:09:42 ◼   ► thousand engineers will be in the forum to discuss new APIs, answer questions. Anyone can view the

00:09:48 ◼   ► conversations, but you have to be a paying developer program member to actually ask questions,

00:09:54 ◼   ► which is probably a good move. Um, because it would, I'm sure be absolutely unbelievably rammed

00:10:02 ◼   ► if anyone, right? Like it just cause you can have a free membership to the developer program or a

00:10:07 ◼   ► paid one. Um, you have to pay to get the bayers and stuff. And then they're also doing one-on-one

00:10:12 ◼   ► developer labs by appointment only for paying developer program members only. So this is

00:10:17 ◼   ► basically what we'd hoped it would be. Right. I think that they're doing all of the things that

00:10:23 ◼   ► we would want, right? They're trying to replicate as much as they can and have an open discussion

00:10:28 ◼   ► forum, which, you know, that forum is, is interesting because that's more than what you

00:10:34 ◼   ► would usually get at WWDC, right? Like you, not all developers get to see what Apple engineers have to

00:10:41 ◼   ► say about things. So this will actually give them maybe a little bit more than they would normally

00:10:47 ◼   ► have gotten. Which I think is kind of cool. I think it's really cool. Yeah. We'll see in practice how it works. This is going to be an interesting

00:10:56 ◼   ► experiment, but, um, I hope it goes well because I really like the idea that there will be, you know,

00:11:04 ◼   ► potentially if this works, you can have other, you know, forums with Apple participation or labs with

00:11:11 ◼   ► Apple participation. Maybe not all the time, right? Because presumably the people at Apple

00:11:16 ◼   ► have to do their regular jobs most of the time, but maybe there's a subset of people at Apple, people in

00:11:21 ◼   ► developer relations or developer technical support who are in here more often going forward, or maybe

00:11:26 ◼   ► they set up like a developer lab weeks throughout the year or something like that and spread this

00:11:34 ◼   ► out maybe quarterly or something like that. So there's, once they build all of this, I hope that

00:11:38 ◼   ► they will put it into practice, but they're going to learn a lot about how well or how poorly it goes

00:11:42 ◼   ► this first time. It is going to be fascinating to see what happens to these forums after the week of

00:11:47 ◼   ► WWDC. Do they become like a ghost town? Like what are they, what is the plan with that? So yeah, I'm

00:11:53 ◼   ► genuinely like really pleased to see that we now have a plan. The plan includes the bare minimum,

00:12:00 ◼   ► plus extra things we'd hope they would do. So I think Apple has done a really good job and you,

00:12:06 ◼   ► I think you can see here that like, you know, this is the reason why WWDC is so late in June.

00:12:10 ◼   ► They had to get all this stuff ready. This was not what they were planning. And I think that they've

00:12:14 ◼   ► so far, at least on the surface, done a really good job of outlining a good replacement for the week.

00:12:20 ◼   ► - Yeah. Well, just, we just have to see how it goes.

00:12:22 ◼   ► - It's draft time now. - Oh, it's draft time now. All right.

00:12:24 ◼   ► - Are you ready, Jason Snow? - I'm not at all ready. Can we talk about how

00:12:28 ◼   ► you have dominated WWDC's drafts historically? - We sure can. So here's some draft stats before

00:12:35 ◼   ► we get into the rules. In 2019, Jason, he won again, getting both the March services event

00:12:43 ◼   ► and WWDC drafts. That was actually Jason's first and only win at the WWDC draft. We have done four

00:12:51 ◼   ► WWDC drafts, 2016, '17, '18, and '19. I had '16, '17, and '18 in the win. Jason got 2019. I remember

00:12:59 ◼   ► it was incredibly close last year as well. I have actually only won four drafts in total of the 12

00:13:07 ◼   ► that we have done, and three of those were WWDC drafts. So historically, this is my draft to lose.

00:13:15 ◼   ► However, in the overall picture, Jason always wins. So this is why the WWDC draft is the most

00:13:22 ◼   ► interesting, because I seem to do good in this one, but Jason does really well overall.

00:13:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's true. It's true. Yeah, three of your four wins are at the developer conference.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Interesting, interesting. - Isn't that interesting? But again,

00:13:34 ◼   ► I've only won four out of 12. - I'm a little concerned. But let's,

00:13:37 ◼   ► yeah, what are the rules? Let's remind everybody of the rules.

00:13:41 ◼   ► - Ten rounds, 20 overall picks between the two of us. The winner of the previous draft gets first

00:13:46 ◼   ► pick, which is Jason. For an item to count for it to be scored, it must either be clearly announced

00:13:54 ◼   ► on stage or on a slide during the presentation. If it happens before the presentation, after the

00:14:00 ◼   ► presentation does not count. Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in a case of a scoring stalemate

00:14:06 ◼   ► between the two of us. We always prefer to score ourselves, but sometimes we do need outside help.

00:14:10 ◼   ► No half points awarded. No points awarded for any ridiculously obvious items, like we cannot pick

00:14:19 ◼   ► iOS 14 announced does not count. The points awarded on the episode are final. So if anything is,

00:14:27 ◼   ► even if something is mis-scored, doesn't count. Whatever we say on our next episode is the final.

00:14:34 ◼   ► And in case of a tie, we have a tiebreaker question. We have instituted the rule that the

00:14:39 ◼   ► loser, that's such a harsh thing, the not winner gets to pick the tiebreaker first,

00:14:48 ◼   ► our tiebreaker question is, does Tim Cook present from a stage? That is the entire thing. So is

00:14:59 ◼   ► there a stage? The stage could be, so we'll talk about this, stage could be any kind of stage,

00:15:04 ◼   ► but it's a stage, right? So he is on an elevated platform. Yeah, as opposed to like on a floor at

00:15:11 ◼   ► Apple Park, right? It's a stagecraft tiebreaker question, which is, you know, is this going to

00:15:17 ◼   ► seem more like a stage presentation or more like an infomercial? And I think we both agree that

00:15:23 ◼   ► seems kind of like a take your pick proposition, which is the whole idea behind the tiebreaker is

00:15:28 ◼   ► that you could pick either one and you just have to pick one. So we'll say that too. We do like

00:15:36 ◼   ► picking our own winners. We've not had to resort to Stephen Hackett a lot, which is good. I mean,

00:15:43 ◼   ► he's got better things to do with his time, quite honestly, than dealing with us. And when I say that

00:15:48 ◼   ► it's ridiculously obvious items, I should say we are picking from a list that was agreed upon by

00:15:54 ◼   ► both of us so that if you, dear listener, quibble with something and think that it's ridiculously

00:15:59 ◼   ► obvious, fair enough, but we agreed on a list of items. Yeah, so that's a really important part of

00:16:07 ◼   ► the rules because we're not picking blind here. Like Jason isn't saying stuff that I haven't heard

00:16:14 ◼   ► before. We are picking from a pre-approved list of stuff that we've been working on for the past

00:16:18 ◼   ► week or so. And then we have take from that list and we both order and we make our own little secret

00:16:26 ◼   ► pick list so that we then surprise each other with. I will note that as always, there will be

00:16:30 ◼   ► a scorecard. There'll be two scorecards in the show notes, one PDF scorecard that you can put

00:16:34 ◼   ► into an app and drawing if you want. But the best scorecard is Zach Knox's interactive scorecard,

00:16:38 ◼   ► which is in the show notes today. So you'll find that. So I guess for that tiebreaker question,

00:16:44 ◼   ► I think it's pretty obvious that I do believe that Tim Cook will present from a stage. So I say yes,

00:16:50 ◼   ► Jason gets no. So if Tim is not on a stage, then Jason will win the tiebreaker point. But the

00:16:56 ◼   ► tiebreaker is only if we're a tie. It's not an actual point in the draft. Right?

00:17:01 ◼   ► So I am fascinated to find out Apple's decision about whether they want to emulate a traditional

00:17:06 ◼   ► Apple keynote or whether they're going to do this infomercial style. Because they're both,

00:17:12 ◼   ► as we talked about last week, both perfectly valid. But are they going to embrace it or do

00:17:17 ◼   ► they think that there's just so much legacy with the Apple keynote presentation? And quite honestly,

00:17:22 ◼   ► for people who are watching remotely, which is almost everybody, that's what it looks like.

00:17:27 ◼   ► You could do it now and it would still look like a stage presentation, even though nobody is there.

00:17:32 ◼   ► So we'll see. So I don't know if you saw this, but I'm sure you did, that Tim Cook announced

00:17:39 ◼   ► Apple's racial equality and justice initiative, which is a great thing. It's a really cool video.

00:17:45 ◼   ► It's going to be led by Lisa Jackson, who was running the environmental stuff at Apple. I

00:17:51 ◼   ► don't know if it still is or if Lisa's moved to this or if it's become part of their role. I'm

00:17:57 ◼   ► not sure. But the point I want to bring up now is the video is shot with Apple Park in the background.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Tim is in an office or something. And I just bring this up because it's like,

00:18:09 ◼   ► is that what WWDC is going to look like? Or are we going to get the stage? We don't know.

00:18:15 ◼   ► And Federico mentioned this to me today. What if they use the outside stage that Apple have?

00:18:23 ◼   ► They have like the stage for concerts and stuff. That could make sense.

00:18:27 ◼   ► In the ring, right?

00:18:28 ◼   ► So this is one of the things that I'm really excited about. And actually,

00:18:32 ◼   ► one of the things that's making this draft complicated is we have way more weird picks

00:18:38 ◼   ► than usual to pick from because there are a lot of unknowns just into how this presentation

00:18:44 ◼   ► will be presented. And that's one of the other kind of wrinkles in this draft that makes it

00:18:49 ◼   ► a little bit more complicated. Now we should probably get started with draft picks one to three.

00:18:55 ◼   ► But before we do, I want to thank our first sponsor of this episode, and that is TextExpander

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00:20:42 ◼   ► Are you ready, Jason Snow? Draft pick number one in the 2020...

00:20:47 ◼   ► No, I'm afraid. I'm terrified.

00:20:48 ◼   ► ...WWDC keynote draft. What is your first pick?

00:20:52 ◼   ► Well, since I get the first pick, which is very generous, I'm going to go with the thing that

00:20:56 ◼   ► is the closest to a certainty, but it's not a certainty. It is a report that we've heard

00:21:02 ◼   ► a lot about and Mark Gurman reported it, but of course he couched it and of course they could make

00:21:06 ◼   ► changes. So I'm going to go with the ARM transition because I want to believe, and I think it's

00:21:12 ◼   ► probably a pretty good bet at this point, but it might not happen, but you know, I'm going to pick

00:21:17 ◼   ► it. I'm going to say that Apple is going to do that thing that they've done a couple of times

00:21:20 ◼   ► before, which is stand in front of developers and say, we're going to make a chip transition.

00:21:23 ◼   ► And there's been a lot of conversation about this. And a lot of people like Jean-Louis Gasset did

00:21:28 ◼   ► this post that references the Osborne effect, which is the idea that you pre-announce something

00:21:32 ◼   ► and then nobody buys your products. But like we saw with the Intel transition that the truth is

00:21:38 ◼   ► most people don't pay attention to stuff like this, and it's not going to be a cataclysmic

00:21:45 ◼   ► compatibility break with the past. And so, you know, if Apple were to say, announce a new Mac

00:21:52 ◼   ► and also an ARM transition, that Mac's not going to sell less well. It's not because most people

00:21:57 ◼   ► don't care. And Apple's whole goal with a processor transition is that you should not even notice

00:22:03 ◼   ► essentially that there's something different. So we'll see how they play it. But I do think

00:22:08 ◼   ► after many, many years of rumors, it's going to happen.

00:22:10 ◼   ► And as well, the Osborne effect, it doesn't matter for Macs, for Apple, like the Osborne effect is a

00:22:19 ◼   ► problem when your whole company relies on the product that you're selling.

00:22:23 ◼   ► And you'll go back out of business if you don't have anything to sell for six months. It's true.

00:22:27 ◼   ► Because that's what it's referencing. That is the Osborne effect. Osborne computing went out

00:22:31 ◼   ► of business because of this. But also, it's not a thing that we've had a chip transition in the Mac

00:22:39 ◼   ► before, and it didn't matter. It just didn't matter. And in fact, I think Apple plans this.

00:22:43 ◼   ► If you look at the Intel transition, the Intel Macs were the same models as the previous Mac.

00:22:48 ◼   ► So Apple, everything it was doing was just selling continuity. It didn't matter. It didn't matter

00:22:53 ◼   ► before. It didn't matter after. The nerds cared. The developers really cared. And there's work

00:22:58 ◼   ► that will have to happen on that front. But the developers will be the ones doing the work,

00:23:03 ◼   ► and the consumers will just be kind of like happy. Because the truth is, and this is not just about

00:23:07 ◼   ► like, "Oh, dumb consumers. They don't understand." The truth is that if you buy an Intel Mac in 2020,

00:23:14 ◼   ► it's going to live its normal usable life, and it's not going to be a problem, right? You're

00:23:18 ◼   ► going to use it. You know, Casey Liss's 13-inch MacBook Pro is going to have the same usable

00:23:24 ◼   ► lifespan as it would have if there was no ARM transition if there is one. It doesn't matter,

00:23:30 ◼   ► because a computer has a lifespan, whether it's two years or three years or five years or seven

00:23:34 ◼   ► years, however long you use it, it gets old and seems slow compared to modern systems. That always

00:23:40 ◼   ► happens. The fact that the next generation uses a different processor type, I don't think is going

00:23:46 ◼   ► to make any difference. And there will still be a lot of people that will want to buy Intel Macs

00:23:52 ◼   ► because they won't want to get the first ARM Mac, right? So people in like businesses and stuff

00:23:58 ◼   ► might, you know, they're still going to make those purchasing decisions if they need them.

00:24:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I get that fear of missing out is a thing, but, and some of us will feel that for sure,

00:24:08 ◼   ► and be like, "Oh, I want to try this out." But like in the grand scheme of things,

00:24:11 ◼   ► I think it's going to be fine, and it's going to kind of be irrelevant. So, but I would like to

00:24:17 ◼   ► believe, I said in my year-end column this year for Macworld, I believe, that I've been picking

00:24:24 ◼   ► the year of the ARM transition for like three years. It's bound to be true eventually. So like

00:24:30 ◼   ► I said, I think it's going to happen, but also I totally want to believe that we're finally there

00:24:35 ◼   ► and that it's going to get announced. So I pick it. - It was my second pick in my list.

00:24:40 ◼   ► I kind of assumed you would pick it, which is why I didn't have it as number one.

00:24:46 ◼   ► There isn't a lot of logic to that, but nevertheless, one that I feel is like,

00:24:51 ◼   ► this feels pretty strong to me as a pick on my first pick is that there will be changes to the

00:24:56 ◼   ► home screen layout on iPad OS. I think it's time. - Oh, interesting.

00:25:01 ◼   ► - We've spoken about this. I mean, it could be widgets. It could be different ways to

00:25:05 ◼   ► display files. It could be anything, but I think we're at the point where we need to see some

00:25:12 ◼   ► change to the way the desktop, the home screen looks on iPad OS to continue pushing forward

00:25:20 ◼   ► the idea of the iPad as a computer. I think that it is an important part of the way

00:25:27 ◼   ► that the iPad should continue to grow. And I think more than anything, we've had this design,

00:25:34 ◼   ► this standard app icon grid design for too long now. - So are you, you're saying iPad specifically,

00:25:39 ◼   ► so if they change the iPhone home screen and not the iPad home screen, you don't get this,

00:25:43 ◼   ► but you think this is, I like your logic, which is that they're trying to make the iPad more like

00:25:47 ◼   ► a computer and the home screen that it's using was already inappropriate by the way, because it was

00:25:51 ◼   ► the weird spaced out iPhone home screen and it was for a different kind of device. So it's certainly

00:25:57 ◼   ► right there. So I get your logic here. - So the reason I said iPad OS is if they

00:26:03 ◼   ► make changes to iOS, they will come to iPad OS. I'm almost certain of that, but that isn't

00:26:08 ◼   ► necessarily the same in the inverse, that there could be things they would want to do on iPad OS

00:26:13 ◼   ► that won't find its way to the iPhone. But like if widgets exist on the iPhone, then like on the

00:26:19 ◼   ► actual home screen, they're not going to be like, I am taking that bet anyway. They're not going to

00:26:23 ◼   ► be like, ah, we're not going to bring that to the iPad. Like that just seems weird. But I could

00:26:28 ◼   ► imagine them saying iPad OS now has this new home screen view in the same way that like they started

00:26:35 ◼   ► that last year, right? Like the home screen on the iPad can now have widgets pinned on it.

00:26:40 ◼   ► You can't do that on the iPhone. So I'm going to stick with my pick to just say iPad OS.

00:26:44 ◼   ► - All right. - Second pick, what you got?

00:26:48 ◼   ► - I'm going to go again with the rumors and I'm going to just embrace them and embrace our friend

00:26:59 ◼   ► Mark Gurman. - The rumors are important when it comes to draft time.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - So step one, arm transition. And remember what I said, which is what if Apple announced a Mac?

00:27:08 ◼   ► It would be fine. And that's what they'll do. They'll announce a new iMac with a new iMac design,

00:27:12 ◼   ► but a new, I'm not going to pick the design. New iMac, new iMac, new iMac announced on the stage

00:27:20 ◼   ► or not on the keynote. New iMac. - So I'll give, I'm going to,

00:27:24 ◼   ► I'll maybe tip my hand a little bit at this point. So I can kind of tell you what I think about this.

00:27:29 ◼   ► We have a lot of potential hardware picks that we can make for this draft because there are,

00:27:35 ◼   ► there's a lot of potential hardware floating around right now.

00:27:38 ◼   ► - The infinite number, some would say of potential hardware. It's all fantasy until it happens.

00:27:43 ◼   ► - More than normal at this time, there seems to be like a lot of stuff that's like could happen.

00:27:49 ◼   ► - I know. And I denied most of it. This is the one where I was like, you know what? I,

00:27:53 ◼   ► not only are the rumors are strong, but it's really desperate because you're right. It's not

00:27:58 ◼   ► usually a strong hardware announcement platform, but it is an announcement platform. And this one,

00:28:03 ◼   ► I don't know, it felt right to me. I discounted almost all of those floating around potential

00:28:07 ◼   ► hardware as being a stretch. And a lot of them, I kept saying to myself, it's probably for the fall.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Probably do that in the fall for the iPhone. Probably don't do it now. But this one,

00:28:17 ◼   ► I couldn't resist. - WWDC typically has pro hardware

00:28:22 ◼   ► as its release platform. - Well, there may be a pro story

00:28:26 ◼   ► about the iMac because we haven't had an iMac Pro announcement either since the original iMac Pro.

00:28:33 ◼   ► So it could all be wrapped together as an iMac family announcement as well.

00:28:39 ◼   ► - But it is just worth noting when it comes to people scoring,

00:28:42 ◼   ► new iMac Pro is a separate pick in our list. So if they announce the iMac Pro,

00:28:50 ◼   ► Jason does not get this point. There has to be a replacement to the current consumer iMac product.

00:28:56 ◼   ► - Yes. - So I will say,

00:28:58 ◼   ► I have in my potential pick list, I've listed kind of like drafted between 20 and 30 things

00:29:04 ◼   ► out of our whole list that I'll be picking, I'm picking from. The iMac is the only one that made

00:29:09 ◼   ► it before the halfway point of my list. Everything else is way lower because this does feel like

00:29:16 ◼   ► if they're gonna do something hardware related, it's gonna be this. But we'll see. Okay, so.

00:29:21 ◼   ► - We'll see. - I'm going back to software

00:29:24 ◼   ► for my second pick. The Apple will announce the ability to change default apps on iOS and iPadOS.

00:29:32 ◼   ► So this has been rumored for a while. It's been rumored as an iOS 14 potential.

00:29:40 ◼   ► So this would allow, for example, you as an individual to say,

00:29:44 ◼   ► I don't want my mail app to be Apple's mail app anymore. Now, I know Apple

00:29:52 ◼   ► kind of, I'm sure do not wanna do this, right? This is not a thing that they will wanna do.

00:29:56 ◼   ► However, I think that they will do it now before regulatory stuff starts to come down on them.

00:30:04 ◼   ► - Right. - You know that.

00:30:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, before the EU or the US Congress says, you're not playing fair with your app store,

00:30:12 ◼   ► et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. - So I think 2020 is the time

00:30:16 ◼   ► that we are likely to see this because it just feels like a time where if they do it now,

00:30:22 ◼   ► they will avoid what is clearly a groundswell of pressure for this before they start getting told

00:30:30 ◼   ► to do it. So make it a good consumer story rather than a look how evil Apple is and we've made them

00:30:37 ◼   ► change its story. - Yeah, I think it's a bold pick

00:30:41 ◼   ► because I think like a lot of these picks, it seems super solid when we're discussing it in a normal

00:30:48 ◼   ► episode of upgrade. And then you think, but what I pick it in a draft that it's tangibly going to

00:30:53 ◼   ► happen next week on stage. - Yeah, it's definitely risky.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Yes, you're right. When you look at it like that, it's like putting my draft picks where my mouth is

00:31:02 ◼   ► is like, it feels a little bit more uncertain, but. - Because here's the thing, I agree with you

00:31:10 ◼   ► that this is probably going to happen and it's going to happen exactly for the reasons you

00:31:14 ◼   ► detailed, which is they don't want to do it, but they want to diffuse criticism of them. Now,

00:31:19 ◼   ► whether they make it a banner feature in their operating system or whether it's more like

00:31:23 ◼   ► something they slide into a November update and don't talk about, that remains to be seen.

00:31:29 ◼   ► It would require presumably some work on the part of the third-party developers who are making these

00:31:34 ◼   ► tools. They might actually have a whole new thing they need to do in order to support being a

00:31:38 ◼   ► default app. And that might withstand WWDC. It also might be the kind of thing where they don't

00:31:43 ◼   ► even talk about it on stage. And then it's in the state of the union or it's in a session.

00:31:47 ◼   ► They're like not even talking about it, but they may fly the flag and take credit for being so

00:31:54 ◼   ► generous to third-party apps. We love app developers and we're going to let you be the

00:31:58 ◼   ► default apps. It totally could happen. So it's risky, but I can see. - I imagine that this could

00:32:03 ◼   ► very well show on one of those word clouds. - Yeah, and that counts by the way. If it's in

00:32:11 ◼   ► a slide on the screen, that counts. It doesn't have to be spoken aloud. It has to be visible

00:32:18 ◼   ► in the presentation. - Yep, the live chat and the members Discord are saying that that feels

00:32:23 ◼   ► like a very state of the union thing, which definitely could be and would make sense.

00:32:26 ◼   ► - It does. That's part of the risk. - Doesn't count if it's in state of the union.

00:32:29 ◼   ► - Unless it's on the cloud. - I have some less bold picks, but I wanted to make some bold ones

00:32:34 ◼   ► to start off. - Yeah, that's good. It's exciting. - What's your third pick, Jason? - I'm going to go

00:32:40 ◼   ► with the other shoe dropping regarding the fact that you've got appointing support on iPads now

00:32:45 ◼   ► and say that iPad OS 14 is going to support external displays for iPad in a better way.

00:32:53 ◼   ► - You went bold. - And it's, you know, I don't think it's that bold a choice. I think it's

00:32:59 ◼   ► obvious. I feel like this is part of the whole migration, external keyboards and trackpads,

00:33:04 ◼   ► not just the magic keyboard, but external keyboard and trackpad support on iPad. Once that exists,

00:33:10 ◼   ► and the iPad already supports external displays, right? It just doesn't support putting the UI

00:33:18 ◼   ► of the apps on them. So I don't think it's that far. Now, maybe it will be limited. Maybe it will

00:33:23 ◼   ► be only one app, or maybe it'll be split view. Maybe there'll be something that feels a little

00:33:27 ◼   ► more like expose. But I think there will be something, because now that you can do external

00:33:34 ◼   ► keyboard and mouse and have a cursor on iPad OS, and it does external display support, it seems

00:33:42 ◼   ► like they're so close that all of the conditions have been met, that this should be the next step,

00:33:49 ◼   ► which is, yes, you should be able to just put an app on an external display and use it. So I don't

00:33:55 ◼   ► think, I mean, yes, I'm making this up, right? But I'm fairly positive that they could do this,

00:34:03 ◼   ► and therefore I'm going to throw it in that they're going to do it.

00:34:06 ◼   ► So like, this is one of those things where I agree, it was on my list. Like, I think that this

00:34:17 ◼   ► will happen. But it feels like one of those things where it's like, ah, but I could imagine they

00:34:23 ◼   ► leave it another year. Or it comes in 0.3, like the trackpad support did.

00:34:28 ◼   ► - Could be. But even then, maybe they would announce something like this now.

00:34:32 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I think,

00:34:33 ◼   ► like, just default apps, it's a thing that kind of makes sense and I expect will happen. The question

00:34:37 ◼   ► is, will it happen Monday? - Yeah.

00:34:38 ◼   ► - From 10 to noon Pacific, right? Because that's what we're picking here.

00:34:42 ◼   ► - My third pick is about as close to an obvious pick as you can get.

00:34:46 ◼   ► - Okay. - Big AR improvements.

00:34:49 ◼   ► - All right. I mean, I think, so augmented reality stuff is obviously a focus for them.

00:34:55 ◼   ► And so, you know, talking about, and this is big AR improvements in iOS.

00:35:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, in iOS. - Yeah. The, or, yeah,

00:35:07 ◼   ► with a LIDAR sensor, LIDAR scanner in the iPad Pro, this allows them to talk about

00:35:12 ◼   ► enhancements that will come to the iPhone. Everyone knows will come to the iPhone in the fall,

00:35:18 ◼   ► but isn't there yet. This is the reason you can ship the iPad Pro with that LIDAR sensor,

00:35:22 ◼   ► is that then you can spend a lot of time talking about using the LIDAR sensor,

00:35:26 ◼   ► knowing that it's going to do more. So we'll have to see how they play that.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And if we consider that a big AR improvement, the only thing that gives me hesitance,

00:35:35 ◼   ► and this is why I didn't put it on my list, because they love talking about AR,

00:35:39 ◼   ► but they especially love talking about AR in the context of the iPhone.

00:35:44 ◼   ► And that's where I get hung up a little bit, is do they hold stuff back for the iPhone launch event.

00:35:51 ◼   ► But I think on your side of the ledger is the fact that it's probably a new version of ARKit

00:35:58 ◼   ► that enables even more stuff in LIDAR. And that's a message for developers.

00:36:03 ◼   ► So I think this is good. I don't think it's a layup. This is why it was on our list, right?

00:36:09 ◼   ► I don't think it's a layup. I don't think it's super guaranteed, but I do think it's a strong

00:36:13 ◼   ► pick because Apple loves talking about AR so much. Because they, you know, again, this is like one of

00:36:18 ◼   ► those things like it or not, Apple have decided this is an important future for them, for

00:36:23 ◼   ► potential products that they may or may not release, but they're continuing to, I mean,

00:36:26 ◼   ► look, they put this sensor on the iPad for that one reason, right? It's for AR and it's coming

00:36:32 ◼   ► to the iPhone. So I think that one of the reasons they put it on that iPad is so they could talk

00:36:37 ◼   ► about it at WWDC, so they can have developers starting to work on stuff. So they're not

00:36:42 ◼   ► announcing like these big things that LIDAR can support with ARKit two weeks, three weeks before

00:36:48 ◼   ► the iPhone ships with the LIDAR support. I imagine they want developers working on LIDAR stuff now

00:36:54 ◼   ► and the hardware exists. It's like if you imagine the idea of a, we haven't spoken about it yet,

00:37:01 ◼   ► but like an ARM transition Mac, right? Where Apple will ship to developers, so some kind of product

00:37:07 ◼   ► that can run ARM, the 2020 iPad Pro is almost like the LIDAR transition kit for the iPhone.

00:37:13 ◼   ► It is a product that exists that allows people to develop AR applications with LIDAR support in mind

00:37:19 ◼   ► because it's coming to the iPhone later on this year. So I think that there will be a new version

00:37:24 ◼   ► of ARKit, which will have some big improvements. One of those will be LIDAR. I mean, I know LIDAR

00:37:29 ◼   ► is already supported by ARKit, but I'm sure there's more stuff that can be enhanced with it,

00:37:34 ◼   ► along with some other stuff. Apple really believe in this AR stuff. It could even be a case of them

00:37:40 ◼   ► talking about like being able to use this stuff inside in stores and stuff, which has been some

00:37:45 ◼   ► rumors around that, that they actually have a partnership with Starbucks that they're working

00:37:49 ◼   ► on now to kind of use indoor and position tracking and all that kind of stuff to make these things

00:37:54 ◼   ► better. And that AR will help enable that. So we'll see. We'll see. I'm starting to imagine a

00:38:02 ◼   ► demo that involves like an augmented reality version of the presentation that shows a giant

00:38:08 ◼   ► audience for it where there is none. But we'll see. I think it's a good bet, but it's still a bet.

00:38:18 ◼   ► So that's perfect. Perfect kind of draft pick to make. Yeah. I also do believe that right now,

00:38:23 ◼   ► the only people that think AR is super important is Apple and maybe Niantic, the Pokemon Go people.

00:38:29 ◼   ► It hasn't hit that mainstream yet, but I think they will continue to drive this home

00:38:34 ◼   ► until people start picking it up because they know it's important for what their future plans are.

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00:39:51 ◼   ► show and RelayFN. Pick four, Jason Snell, lay it on me. Let's go back to the Mac. Despite my better

00:40:00 ◼   ► judgment and my despair and my pessimism about this, I am going to go with Catalyst improvements.

00:40:08 ◼   ► We had down, by the way, dear listeners, we had down as available choices.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Mac Catalyst will be improved. No improvements for Catalyst mentioned. Those are both options,

00:40:20 ◼   ► and I was honestly torn, so torn between them. But I'm going to go with the optimism that

00:40:26 ◼   ► it's worth Apple saying, "We got a lot of great feedback about Mac Catalyst over the last year,

00:40:33 ◼   ► and it's going to be even better, and we've enabled creating even more apps from it." Now,

00:40:37 ◼   ► that may come in adapting iPhone apps. That may come with specific changes to improve certain

00:40:43 ◼   ► kinds of things with Catalyst, but although part of me thinks just despair and be sad because Apple

00:40:50 ◼   ► doesn't care, I'm going to say that they got to improve something in Mac Catalyst, right? And

00:40:57 ◼   ► that's got to be something that they sell for a new version of macOS, that Mac Catalyst is better

00:41:01 ◼   ► in some way. So, you know, in some form, saying that Mac Catalyst is better is my pick.

00:41:09 ◼   ► So here's your problem with this, I think. The year that Mac Catalyst was introduced,

00:41:17 ◼   ► it was just mentioned and moved on, right? It's true.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Like, last year, the keynote. The thing is, they made a big deal of it the year before,

00:41:26 ◼   ► and they didn't have a lot new to say other than, "Yep, here it is." But now it's been a year of

00:41:31 ◼   ► developers using it, so now would be the revision year. But I agree with you, the alternate way to

00:41:37 ◼   ► read this, and that's why the other item was there, is they've already moved on to Swift UI,

00:41:41 ◼   ► they don't care. Catalyst is just going to be what it is, and if that's not good enough, too bad,

00:41:45 ◼   ► move to something else. But I'm hopeful that they will have, at least pay lip service to the idea

00:41:51 ◼   ► that Mac Catalyst could be a little better. I mean, so if people cast their mind back to

00:41:55 ◼   ► Mark Gurman's original report about all of this stuff, one of the things that was mentioned is

00:42:03 ◼   ► that the second year would see iPhone apps coming to Mac Catalyst. Exactly. So I'm wrapping that in

00:42:13 ◼   ► here too as a possible. That would be an improvement of Mac Catalyst, should that happen. Oh, it'd be a

00:42:17 ◼   ► big one. I'd be super intrigued to see how they would handle that, if that's what they do, but

00:42:22 ◼   ► that could be your big thing, right? Like, that could be it, and that would be a definite improvement,

00:42:27 ◼   ► and it would be something worth talking about on stage. For people who don't know, Mac Catalyst is

00:42:32 ◼   ► this technology that lets people who have developed apps from iOS, and specifically the iPad,

00:42:37 ◼   ► to bring a lot of that over. It's basically providing a bunch of the programming interfaces

00:42:44 ◼   ► from the iPad on the Mac, so you can take your, theoretically, you take your iPad app, and with

00:42:50 ◼   ► some work, you can turn it into a Mac app without having to do what you used to have to do, which is

00:42:54 ◼   ► essentially rewrite it for the Mac. Now you can bring it over, and there are some apps out there

00:43:00 ◼   ► that do it. Some do it better than others. A couple of Apple's apps use this technology. It could be a

00:43:07 ◼   ► lot better. There are ways to work around it, but again, it could be a lot better, and the people I

00:43:12 ◼   ► know who are developers who are working on Catalyst apps are very interested in the possibility that

00:43:18 ◼   ► Apple might fix some of the problems with it so that they could not focus on workarounds there,

00:43:23 ◼   ► but we'll see. Maybe Apple thinks it's as good as it's ever going to get.

00:43:26 ◼   ► My fourth pick in the draft is new Apple Watch faces. Oh, that is an easy pick, right? That's

00:43:33 ◼   ► a pretty easy pick. They're always new Watch. I think I picked it last year, so it's a,

00:43:36 ◼   ► it's a gimme. It's a good one. Yeah, I just feel like it's going to happen, and you know,

00:43:41 ◼   ► I don't really know what they're going to be. Again, like, what I would love is, personally,

00:43:46 ◼   ► I don't want new Apple Watch faces. I want the ability to then have them much more customizable

00:43:51 ◼   ► than they currently are, right? Like, I don't need Apple to keep delivering new designs to me. What

00:43:56 ◼   ► I want, honestly, is like a tool to build my own Watch faces from components that they provide.

00:44:02 ◼   ► You know, something kind of like, from a visual design perspective, something like

00:44:06 ◼   ► underscore David Smith's Watch Smith application, right, where you can make your own complications.

00:44:12 ◼   ► I want, basically, a tool set to create my own design from components that Apple has,

00:44:17 ◼   ► because it's like, I really like this design, but I want to add this complication type,

00:44:22 ◼   ► but you don't let me do that, even though there's space for that, right? So that's the kind of stuff

00:44:27 ◼   ► that I want to see Apple do, but I don't think it's what I'm going to get, but I do imagine them

00:44:32 ◼   ► always to continue to add new Apple Watch faces of some description, and I think that the 2020

00:44:38 ◼   ► WWDC will be no different. There are always new Apple Watch faces. They're always kind of

00:44:45 ◼   ► underwhelming, but I agree. That's a good pick. What is your fifth pick, Jason? I'm gonna go with

00:44:54 ◼   ► an Apple Watch 1.2. You've inspired me, and I'm going to say that last year in the fall,

00:44:59 ◼   ► they announced the new Apple Watch Series 5 has always-on Watch faces, and they're okay.

00:45:06 ◼   ► They're not great. They have some issues, so I feel like this is a natural time for them to improve

00:45:12 ◼   ► the always-on Watch face design, perhaps give better choices over what gets displayed, or maybe

00:45:20 ◼   ► the content is better, maybe the complications have more ability to display things there,

00:45:24 ◼   ► maybe it's user settings, because definitely there have been some complaints about, you know,

00:45:29 ◼   ► you're doing certain tasks, and the always-on face is this boring face and not the face you want,

00:45:34 ◼   ► because you've got an activity going. So I'm just going to say improvements to the always-on

00:45:40 ◼   ► mode of Watch faces, because there are plenty they could do, and this is their opportunity to

00:45:45 ◼   ► take a second cut at that, because they just launched that feature with the Watch in the

00:45:50 ◼   ► fall last year. I would like to see it. I would like to see them really, for me, like just mirror

00:45:58 ◼   ► the UI, right? Like stop making it look different. Like, I don't want it to dim. I kind of want it to

00:46:03 ◼   ► do more. That would be a good thing for me, like to keep the color that I've chosen, you know,

00:46:07 ◼   ► that kind of stuff. I would like that. I'm going to go for my fifth draft pick, enhancements to

00:46:13 ◼   ► messages. That's one that I think we're going to see. So this could be, I don't know, if you want

00:46:22 ◼   ► me to pick here, Jason, whether it should be on a specific platform or not, what do you think?

00:46:26 ◼   ► JASON LEWKOWICZ Well, this was in our iOS list.

00:46:29 ◼   ► MATT WILSON Yeah, let me keep it in iOS then. I think we're going to see enhancements to messages

00:46:32 ◼   ► on iOS. There was a report of this before about like basically having a lot more control in group

00:46:39 ◼   ► chats. So being able to @ mention someone in a group chat and people get notifications for that,

00:46:44 ◼   ► whilst being able to keep the notifications muted, right? So you're not getting notified for every

00:46:49 ◼   ► message, but just when somebody @s you. And also typing indicators, kind of like a Discord or a

00:46:54 ◼   ► Slack. So you can see if in a group message somebody's typing to you. That kind of stuff

00:46:59 ◼   ► would be great. I'd love to see that. There is, you know, as I was thinking about it, right, like

00:47:04 ◼   ► if they do these enhancements to messages anywhere, they're going to do them everywhere. So I'm happy

00:47:08 ◼   ► to just say like on iOS and we'll see where it goes. But I would love to see those features find

00:47:12 ◼   ► its way to messages. I'm in a couple of group chats that are quite busy, so I have to mute them,

00:47:18 ◼   ► but then people can't get my attention, right? And so I would like to have a mixture there. And I

00:47:23 ◼   ► would also really love to have the typing indicators. It's useful in one-on-one chats.

00:47:28 ◼   ► I would love to see it in group chats too. Yep, sounds good. Well, have you got the pick six?

00:47:33 ◼   ► Oh, it's getting harder. I'm going to say this is slightly different from the

00:47:41 ◼   ► the pick that is the tiebreaker. I'm going to say, a little meta, we see the inside

00:47:50 ◼   ► of the apple park ring in the background is fine. Something we see the inside of apple park,

00:47:59 ◼   ► like in all these infomercial videos. So I'm sort of picking the infomercial, but I'm sort of not.

00:48:03 ◼   ► I just, uh, we see the inside of apple park in some video somewhere. I have this as my sixth pick

00:48:09 ◼   ► as well. Oh, tonight. Yeah, you got me. This is, they're going to do it because

00:48:19 ◼   ► even if they have Tim on a stage somewhere, not everybody's going to be presenting from the same

00:48:24 ◼   ► place because you can't have that happen. Like I even think we may not see two individuals

00:48:31 ◼   ► pass each other at any point during this presentation. That's a pick. That's a pick

00:48:35 ◼   ► you can make as no apple executives actually appear on screen together. Right. It's a pick.

00:48:41 ◼   ► You could do that. Not high up on my list because it's a complicated pick. I feel like even if they

00:48:46 ◼   ► do the stagecraft, I, everything that they've done since the pandemic started has involved shots

00:48:52 ◼   ► because it's so beautiful shots from inside apple park with the interior ring. That's just those

00:48:58 ◼   ► trees and water and stuff, uh, in the background. Cause it's beautiful. Why would you not do it?

00:49:04 ◼   ► I have a hard time believing that nothing in this presentation will show that off. Even if there's a

00:49:08 ◼   ► stage somewhere, by the way, if the stage is inside the ring, I win that pick there too. But

00:49:14 ◼   ► if they do a stage, if they do it on the Steve jobs theater stage, let's say I, I'm still betting that

00:49:19 ◼   ► there will be some video that happens that shows the apple park ring. Cause it's just too good.

00:49:23 ◼   ► I expect as well, it's probably been a little easier to do filming there. If they've done stuff

00:49:30 ◼   ► in advance, which I expect there'll be some stuff that's been prerecorded at least because there's

00:49:35 ◼   ► been less employees at apple park. So it's probably been easy for them to, if they've

00:49:39 ◼   ► wanted to use the outside space for filming and stuff like that, they've probably been able to do

00:49:44 ◼   ► that or use different conference rooms or whatever, however they've done it or inside spaces. Um,

00:49:49 ◼   ► because you know, we, again, we have potential picks as to whether we think this will be presented

00:49:54 ◼   ► as a live thing or not. Uh, probably going to be a mixture of both if there's going to be any live.

00:49:59 ◼   ► I can't imagine they would do it all live because why would you, when you have the opportunity to

00:50:03 ◼   ► have prerecorded stuff, if you want to exactly, it is a, it would be a fun stunt to have it be

00:50:09 ◼   ► outside on the interior of the apple park ring on that stage live. But I don't think that's

00:50:16 ◼   ► going to happen because they want to control it more than they could. They could do it live from

00:50:20 ◼   ► that stage and have a socially distanced audience and have them people coming out one at a time.

00:50:26 ◼   ► Uh, you could do it, but I don't think they will. So my sixth pick in the WWDC 2020 draft is updates

00:50:35 ◼   ► to Swift UI. That's a good one. I mean, it was, it was just announced, so you would think they

00:50:41 ◼   ► are doing more work on it. Maybe it gets the catalyst treatment, but, uh, I don't think so.

00:50:47 ◼   ► I mean, even if it did get the catalyst treatment, it still meant updates or mentioned or whatever,

00:50:52 ◼   ► but I think that Swift UI, I think is more important to the future for apple than

00:50:58 ◼   ► than catalyst is. Um, like catalyst is a thing for now, Swift UI is a thing for the future. And

00:51:06 ◼   ► I think that they're going to want to continue to evangelize this to developers. And, you know,

00:51:11 ◼   ► I expect it will get much more time in the state of the union, but I think will be mentioned again,

00:51:17 ◼   ► uh, on stage with some updates, like here's what we're doing for Swift UI as part of the

00:51:21 ◼   ► keynote presentation as well. Even if it's just like a small thing, I mean, this could be honestly

00:51:26 ◼   ► something that we see in a word cloud, but I would expect apple will have something to say

00:51:31 ◼   ► about Swift UI at WWDC 2020. I think it's a perfectly logical, uh, pick. I think, uh,

00:51:37 ◼   ► it's a good, good chance of happening. And, uh, I hope that, uh, it makes people happy because

00:51:43 ◼   ► the feedback we've gotten from developers is Swift UI is very exciting. But then when you start to do

00:51:47 ◼   ► things with it, you think, oh, it's, you know, right. They, they run into the, the, the limitations

00:51:52 ◼   ► of it pretty quickly. So it could definitely use, um, more visible progress, right. To make

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00:53:22 ◼   ► this show and all of Relay FM. All right, we are approaching the home stretch. As I said earlier,

00:53:30 ◼   ► we have 10 rounds today and we're into round seven. What you got, Jason?

00:53:37 ◼   ► Myke, what would a modern iOS update presentation be without new Memoji options?

00:53:46 ◼   ► I feel like it's a lot.

00:53:47 ◼   ► So I'm going to pick new Memoji options.

00:53:48 ◼   ► Yeah, that feels pretty good to me. I had this one reason to be high on my list.

00:53:52 ◼   ► Unless they're fooling us, right? And they're like, oh yeah, not this time. That's too stale.

00:53:57 ◼   ► We're not going to do that again, but I'm going to pick it because it just seems like there's

00:54:01 ◼   ► always new Memoji options.

00:54:02 ◼   ► In a year when Memoji are front and center in the WWDC marketing, you would expect them to have

00:54:10 ◼   ► something, right? It would make a lot of sense.

00:54:12 ◼   ► You really would, right? That's an excellent point that, uh, uh, why,

00:54:16 ◼   ► why would you do that and then not have them there?

00:54:18 ◼   ► I'm going back to the Apple Watch for my seventh pick.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Wow.

00:54:22 ◼   ► And I'm going to say that we will see a focus on mental health features for the Apple Watch.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Obviously the Apple Watch is a health focused device. It's one of the primary

00:54:33 ◼   ► reasons for its existence. I think from a selling point, it's probably the,

00:54:38 ◼   ► the highest like marketing point now for the Apple Watch is the health and fitness stuff.

00:54:43 ◼   ► I think that mental health is an area that they could start to tackle in some ways.

00:54:48 ◼   ► There's been lots of conversations about the things that they may or may not do here.

00:54:52 ◼   ► They have the Breathe app, which is something, but could be more. They could,

00:54:55 ◼   ► I've seen people say expand that into maybe more of like a guided meditation type stuff.

00:55:00 ◼   ► And I think that the world right now has shown that people could probably do with this stuff.

00:55:07 ◼   ► And it would be a really nice story for the Apple Watch itself.

00:55:10 ◼   ► So I am leaning on the fact that I believe we will see

00:55:13 ◼   ► some new mental health features for, uh, watchOS. Is this seven? WatchOS seven or eight?

00:55:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Seven.

00:55:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:55:21 ◼   ► We're on six right now.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Yeah. I think that is a little bit of a risky pick, but I think I can see how they would

00:55:28 ◼   ► pitch that right.

00:55:29 ◼   ► This, this could be something that they need new sensors for, right? Like I'm very aware of that,

00:55:33 ◼   ► but, but I think that there could be an element of, we have some stuff that we can talk about

00:55:38 ◼   ► this in software and then maybe some stuff that is going to be hardware related announced later

00:55:44 ◼   ► on in the year.

00:55:46 ◼   ► I'm going to pick a, I know this is broad, but it's also not necessarily a thing that

00:55:54 ◼   ► will actually be discussed on stage. And that's why I'm picking it because I think it's, it's risky,

00:55:59 ◼   ► but there are a lot of different ways it could hit. And that is improvements to Siri.

00:56:03 ◼   ► The Siri could use some improvements. And I don't know whether this is specifically like,

00:56:09 ◼   ► we've added a bunch of ways for apps to talk to Siri or whether it's, we fixed the Siri

00:56:14 ◼   ► backend services so that they work better. But I want somebody on stage or in the presentation

00:56:19 ◼   ► somewhere, cause there may not even be a stage to say we've made some aspect of Siri better,

00:56:25 ◼   ► like any aspect of Siri, acknowledging that it could be made better and has been made better.

00:56:31 ◼   ► That's what I'm looking for.

00:56:32 ◼   ► I do wonder if that's this year. I mean, we've heard recently of Apple buying some companies

00:56:38 ◼   ► to try and help make Siri better.

00:56:40 ◼   ► They keep buying companies. They keep putting it in people in charge of it. They keep doing

00:56:44 ◼   ► lots of things to make Siri better. And here we are.

00:56:48 ◼   ► Yeah. I want to believe.

00:56:51 ◼   ► I know. See that's so much so true in this draft. For me, what made me pick this is that

00:56:57 ◼   ► it's broad enough that if there is a targeted way that apps can respond to Siri better on one of the

00:57:02 ◼   ► platforms, then I'm going to count it as an improvement to Siri, because I think the bigger

00:57:07 ◼   ► question is, are they really going to improve Siri? So I'm going to say yes in some way,

00:57:13 ◼   ► surely they're going to improve Siri. We'll see.

00:57:15 ◼   ► Okay. So my next pick, this is round eight, right? Yeah. Okay. Focus on performance and

00:57:24 ◼   ► stability for iOS. All right. So it's the TikTok thing. So here's my thinking on this.

00:57:28 ◼   ► There was a very strong chance that they were going to go with a reference to improving

00:57:34 ◼   ► performance and stability because iOS 13 was not good. Right? It was one of the buggiest iOS

00:57:42 ◼   ► versions for a long time through the whole beta cycle and then into release to the point that the

00:57:47 ◼   ► iPhone shipped without 13 on it. Remember that? So I, you know, this is a, oh no, they shipped,

00:57:54 ◼   ► sorry. 13.0 that only ever appeared on that iPhone. Yeah. But it was only on that iPhone.

00:58:00 ◼   ► The other devices did not get 13 and it was very clear that it got 13 because it had to have 13

00:58:05 ◼   ► to run and the iPhones were going out the door. Right? So I think they would have, no matter what

00:58:12 ◼   ► said it was a performance and stability release for iOS this year. And then I also assume it's,

00:58:17 ◼   ► I think it's fair to assume there's probably some features for iOS that have got pushed this year

00:58:21 ◼   ► because of all of the, I'm sure huge complexities Apple's had in trying to move their team home.

00:58:28 ◼   ► And, and it seems like there might be some other big stuff, right? Like we expect potentially the

00:58:32 ◼   ► arm transition stuff. We expect big improvements to iPadOS. The iPhone iOS experience can be,

00:58:39 ◼   ► can be put on ice a bit for a year. It's going to get some stuff, right? If they get messages,

00:58:43 ◼   ► they get Memoji, they get regular emoji, they get other things that we're going to talk about

00:58:47 ◼   ► here today. That's fine. Right? Like that's like what iOS 12 was and it will do its thing.

00:58:54 ◼   ► But I think the iOS 14 is going to see a performance and stability update for iOS.

00:59:01 ◼   ► So I think, and I honestly think it will make people happy, right? Like people want to see that

00:59:06 ◼   ► and I think it will make this release much more stable at a time when Apple will need that

00:59:12 ◼   ► stability. Okay. I think it's not a bad bet given that that's what happened the last,

00:59:16 ◼   ► that's a pattern now, right? Tough release, stability release, tough release, stability

00:59:22 ◼   ► release. Okay. Well, for my ninth pick, I'm going to go with some bad news for people who love

00:59:31 ◼   ► the regular appearance at Apple events of interminable game demos. I'm going to pick

00:59:38 ◼   ► no game demos. Oh, now part of that is that how do you do game demos in a prerecorded or whatever

00:59:46 ◼   ► this thing is? How do you have guests from outside places come in and do a game demo?

00:59:51 ◼   ► Game demos are better served at the iPhone event anyway. My risk here is that there's some AR game

00:59:57 ◼   ► that they show. But you know what? If I don't get this right, I just want to say no game demos

01:00:04 ◼   ► because just sort of out of spite because they're boring. So no game demos. I've decreed it.

01:00:10 ◼   ► Ah, screw it. Pick nine game demos with guests from game studios is my pick.

01:00:18 ◼   ► All right. It's a showdown round. I love it. Here's the thing for this, Jason.

01:00:23 ◼   ► Apple Arcade exists. They're going to want to keep showing it. It's true. AR might exist. They're

01:00:31 ◼   ► going to want to keep showing it. It is not difficult for them to ask someone to film

01:00:38 ◼   ► something. All right. And or just have some footage of a game playing and somebody talking

01:00:46 ◼   ► about it. I think game demos are very possible. And let's just hear before we end up with problems

01:00:54 ◼   ► later. Jason, what counts as a game demo? Yeah, this is what we need to get. So now in our list,

01:01:00 ◼   ► what you picked was called game demos with guests from game studios. So there, not only do they have

01:01:05 ◼   ► to show gameplay, but there needs to be somebody. It can't just be a person from Apple saying,

01:01:10 ◼   ► we've got great games like this game on Apple Arcade. Right. Um, I, I think a game demo is

01:01:17 ◼   ► somebody showing somebody actually playing the game, not just rolling a trailer of footage from

01:01:23 ◼   ► the game. Right. So somebody has to be like, I'm here with the game and look, Oh, I just died. Oh,

01:01:30 ◼   ► no. That is what a game demo is. If we can say it's a little, just if I can maybe twist it just a tad,

01:01:36 ◼   ► it can be prerecorded footage, but there has to be some kind of context being given from somebody

01:01:42 ◼   ► who's not an Apple employee. Okay. I'm going to actually split this so that we could both get it

01:01:46 ◼   ► wrong, which is I'm going to say for me, I need to, we need to see somebody actually playing the

01:01:52 ◼   ► game. It can't just be footage. Somebody has to play the game. That is a game. We can call it game

01:01:58 ◼   ► play demo. If you want for you, you just need a guest from a game studio. Okay. And, and showing,

01:02:06 ◼   ► I mean, of course, if they're going to, if there's a guest from a game studio, they're going to be

01:02:09 ◼   ► showing some footage from their game, but they don't have to, that doesn't have to be game play.

01:02:12 ◼   ► How about that? All right. So your pick is okay. We need to, we need to reestablish this now because

01:02:18 ◼   ► it maybe made this a little bit more complicated because no game play demos and game presentations

01:02:24 ◼   ► from guests at game studios. We could both get that pick, right? We could, or we could both get

01:02:28 ◼   ► it wrong, but yes. Okay. No, I guess we couldn't get it wrong. Well, no, we could anyway. So there

01:02:34 ◼   ► it is showdown in round nine. That one's going to be, that round is going to be tricky to school.

01:02:39 ◼   ► I can see this already. So you have picked no game play demos. So they could be, uh,

01:02:47 ◼   ► like a trailer, a trailer and, or a montage of games or whatever, but I'm saying,

01:02:53 ◼   ► let's stop everything. Let's stop time and then sit there while somebody plays a video game.

01:02:58 ◼   ► I'm going to say no. And for me, there just has to be a presentation of some description with

01:03:04 ◼   ► somebody who's not at Apple talking about the game. Right. Yep. Cool. Wow. That one,

01:03:11 ◼   ► that one's going to be funny. That one's going to be a funny one to, uh, to pick. All right.

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01:04:38 ◼   ► tell from what KiwiCo are doing, they're really thinking about what each crate option they have,

01:04:44 ◼   ► how it's presented, the difficulty level is really, really well done and everything's super cool.

01:04:50 ◼   ► And they're things that can stick around in your house. They end up being things that you build

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01:05:10 ◼   ► You can get 30% of your first month on selected crates at kiwico.com/upgrade.

01:05:15 ◼   ► That's k i w i c o dot com slash upgrade. Our thanks to KiwiCo for their support of this show

01:05:22 ◼   ► and all of Relay FM. The last pick, draft pick number 10. Jason, what are you going to do to

01:05:29 ◼   ► bring this one home? I'm going to make, so I have right now a bunch of different picks that are

01:05:41 ◼   ► related to each other, all of which are about the ARM transition and are developers as they were for

01:05:50 ◼   ► the Intel transition going to be given or, you know, sold, made available to them some kind of

01:05:56 ◼   ► ARM hardware on which ARM Mac OS can run. A lot of conversation about this. Could it be on a

01:06:05 ◼   ► secret ARM processor on a new iMac? Could it be on a developer transition kit that is a one-off

01:06:14 ◼   ► that's never sold to people that's like a Mac Mini or an Apple TV? It's just for developers.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Would they let you install it on an iPad Pro and turn it into a really weird Mac just for

01:06:26 ◼   ► development purposes? A lot of debate out there. I've decided to make my pick that a one-off ARM

01:06:35 ◼   ► transition hardware device, something that's for developers but is not available to the general

01:06:40 ◼   ► public, will not be offered. Whoa, Jason Snow. Also, by the way, if there's no ARM transition,

01:06:49 ◼   ► I'm right. I just put that out there. If there's no ARM transition, that's good. I'm right. But

01:06:55 ◼   ► here's my feeling, which is there are so many Apple developers now that I have decided to bet

01:07:01 ◼   ► against Apple committing to making a large number of these. And if they make a small number of them,

01:07:07 ◼   ► it's going to be a debacle because people who need them are not going to be able to get them.

01:07:11 ◼   ► It would be nice to have transition hardware. I have a hard time imagining Apple going through

01:07:19 ◼   ► the motions of having transition hardware that's essentially temporary that they're handing to

01:07:23 ◼   ► developers. I feel like they will either have a better option or no option rather than this

01:07:28 ◼   ► option. So that's what I'm going to do. I like this better than the other two and I wanted to

01:07:32 ◼   ► pick an ARM transition hardware story. So this is it. This is very bold, Jason. Like, I could

01:07:38 ◼   ► even call that a risky pick. There's a Ricky right there because it's a Ricky. I feel like

01:07:47 ◼   ► the idea of there being transition hardware is just considered a given amongst everyone.

01:07:53 ◼   ► When we're talking about this. Isn't it? I agree. And the more I thought about it, I was like,

01:07:58 ◼   ► and again, the chances are really close. The chances of the iPad or a piece of one-off

01:08:04 ◼   ► hardware are also pretty decent, I would say. But I think the just betting against it entirely

01:08:13 ◼   ► is because then I get the either it's an existing computer like an iPad Pro or they just don't do it

01:08:19 ◼   ► and say it's fine. It's all going to be fine. But I know it's also the 10th round, Myke. And so

01:08:25 ◼   ► consider this my spinal tap pick if you like. Yeah, well, I, I'm, this is not my pick, but I

01:08:30 ◼   ► just wanted to double down on something I said, I think last week or the week before. I'm convinced

01:08:34 ◼   ► that if Apple do offer ARM transition hardware, it will be a Mac mini. That's what I think it's

01:08:39 ◼   ► going to be if they do it. The more I thought about that, the more sense it makes to me.

01:08:43 ◼   ► That that would be the box because I think I was talking about it's unconnected too.

01:08:49 ◼   ► The Mac mini would be the easiest, I'm sure to replace the hardware inside. Right? Like it's a,

01:08:58 ◼   ► it's a box stand, you know, it would much easier than trying to offer a laptop, right? Like that

01:09:03 ◼   ► kind of side. That's what I think that they would do. I agree. I think in terms of hardware, that's

01:09:08 ◼   ► the one that makes the most sense because the shape, because the shape is all that matters.

01:09:12 ◼   ► So having a little thing that you can send out to people with, uh, you know, a 12 Z or whatever on

01:09:18 ◼   ► it is that's, that is a perfectly legitimate idea. That's probably the most likely transition bit of

01:09:26 ◼   ► hardware that they would offer. But again, are they going to do that? Are they going to put together

01:09:30 ◼   ► a whole program where developers pay them to send a, you know, a loan thing like they did for Intel?

01:09:35 ◼   ► Maybe that would be a repeat of what they did 15 years ago. I don't know if Apple is going to

01:09:40 ◼   ► repeat what they did 15 years ago, but Hey, 10th round room for a bold pick in there. I think we

01:09:45 ◼   ► will have a good ball pick. Ooh, man, man. I'm really excited about the way that we see now,

01:09:53 ◼   ► now that we're getting through this. All right. Okay. Uh, I don't know whether to go bold or

01:09:58 ◼   ► boring. Jason, what should I do? A bold or boring 10th round is 10th rounds. A great place for bold

01:10:03 ◼   ► picks. Myke. Oh man. I have a very good boring one. I'm going to go bold. I'm going to go bold.

01:10:11 ◼   ► I'm going to go bold. No, I don't know how bold to go. Do I go bold as in, okay. So I have a boring

01:10:20 ◼   ► pick. I have a bold pick. Think about the glory. If you get the bold pick right. I know. All right.

01:10:25 ◼   ► Boring pick. I have a bold pick that has been rumored and a bold pick that has been rumored,

01:10:32 ◼   ► but seems unlikely. And I'm wondering where to go in that range.

01:10:36 ◼   ► I'd go with a bold italic. All right. I'm going to go with the middle one. I'm going to go with

01:10:43 ◼   ► bold, but has been rumored that there will be third party wallpaper packs as a new thing

01:10:49 ◼   ► available in iOS. You sure that's not the boring pick? All right. Okay. Forget it. Forget that one.

01:10:55 ◼   ► Forget that one. Take it out of here. That was my, that was my semi bold pick, but clearly not

01:11:01 ◼   ► enough. Now see, now I have a couple of other things that I want to pick from here. Oh, you

01:11:06 ◼   ► know what? I'm going to go mega bold, Jason. New Apple display. Oh, Myke, you know, that was almost

01:11:15 ◼   ► my pick here. That was almost my pick here. So tell me about it. Cause I had my whole presentation

01:11:21 ◼   ► worked out for that, but I decided not to go there. I wasn't as bold as you. If we are assuming

01:11:26 ◼   ► there will be a new iMac, that new iMac is not going to look like the iMac that it is replacing.

01:11:32 ◼   ► I think we can all feel that that feels pretty confident at this point that if they are going to

01:11:36 ◼   ► give keynote presentation time to an iMac, that thing is going to have one of those wild, like

01:11:44 ◼   ► zoom in in pan and across the hardware, like zoom in. You know what I mean? Like one of those,

01:11:49 ◼   ► like, Oh, you could never imagine such a thing. Right. And they heard rumors of, and we spoke,

01:11:54 ◼   ► we didn't speak about this. That came out in the intervening time since our last episode,

01:11:58 ◼   ► that there's a rumor of a new iMac coming with the similar design cues to the 2020 iPad. Right.

01:12:05 ◼   ► We've talked about it before, but yeah, that, that is a thing that's out there now is that

01:12:10 ◼   ► they may finally, the rumor is, and this is why I picked it, that they're, they're finally going to

01:12:14 ◼   ► do their redesigned iMac because the exterior of the iMac hasn't changed in like seven years or

01:12:21 ◼   ► something. And now let's look at the previous picks in this draft. You have a new iMac,

01:12:26 ◼   ► you have better external display support on iPadOS. Apple don't want you plugging that

01:12:32 ◼   ► into an LG display. And let's remember that last year, the fancy display came out with lots of

01:12:40 ◼   ► laughter about how expensive it was and the thousand dollar stand and all of that. And we've

01:12:45 ◼   ► all been talking since then about how the hole in Apple's lineup is that they're not making a good

01:12:50 ◼   ► external display. That's not a reference display. It doesn't cost that much. And that they could

01:12:54 ◼   ► still sell it. They could design something. It would look great with Apple hardware. They could

01:12:58 ◼   ► sell it with an obscene amount of, of profit margin. And it would still sell a lot to a lot

01:13:06 ◼   ► of people, including a lot of people who have like Mac pros and are not interested in a studio

01:13:11 ◼   ► reference display. Plus yes, throw in the iPad, throw in other Macs that could use it. I think,

01:13:18 ◼   ► I think it's a product that should exist. This would be a great time to release it.

01:13:24 ◼   ► I hope they surprise us. Except for the, except for draft strategy. I hope they don't.

01:13:30 ◼   ► Yeah. Cause I want you to lose. You won it, but both don't want to lose,

01:13:33 ◼   ► but also don't want to lose the draft. That's the best kind of thing. Cause it's a thing that if you

01:13:36 ◼   ► get a point, but it's something I, I, that delights me, the worst is when you get a point and it's

01:13:41 ◼   ► something I don't like that happens. That I don't like. I would much prefer for you to get a point

01:13:45 ◼   ► on things that make me happy. I think it's time for Apple to reenter the display business.

01:13:50 ◼   ► Yeah. In a different way other than the, the, the giant, uh, XDR. Yeah.

01:13:56 ◼   ► And honestly, I think that we all, we all felt this way that the pro display XDR

01:14:00 ◼   ► again opens the door for them to have a lower range product. And you know, if we really want

01:14:05 ◼   ► to keep talking through this, like if they're going to offer a Mac mini with an arm chip inside of it

01:14:11 ◼   ► for developers, it would also be another reason to also have a monitor. You can sell them.

01:14:15 ◼   ► Along with wanting to plug an iPad into it and have a great support story there

01:14:20 ◼   ► and being able to plug in the Mac pro into it, if you want to. And that new iMac,

01:14:25 ◼   ► if you want a second display, it matches from a design perspective. There is a lot of potential

01:14:30 ◼   ► options for a new Apple display to exist, but I know that that is a bold, bold choice.

01:14:36 ◼   ► So in a moment, I will tell you what my boring one was that I actually wanted to pick in the

01:14:43 ◼   ► 10th round, but we have a bonus round. So there is an 11th bonus round and that is, this is a

01:14:49 ◼   ► difficult one. I think it's especially difficult for me, easier for Jason. I was thinking of this

01:14:53 ◼   ► last night, pick the name of the next version of Mac OS. Can I go first? Can I go first? Because

01:15:02 ◼   ► you do have an advantage here in that you live in California and I know nothing about California.

01:15:09 ◼   ► Yeah. I basically predicted something in sort of half-heartedly in my macro column last week,

01:15:15 ◼   ► but go ahead. I'm going to pick the name. I saw this mentioned in the relay FM members discord

01:15:21 ◼   ► last night while I was thinking about this, someone was talking about it. This was not on my list. I

01:15:25 ◼   ► didn't know anything about this place. I'd heard the word before and then Googled it and was like,

01:15:30 ◼   ► that makes sense. I'm going to go with Mac OS Avalon. That's what I picked last week on the

01:15:35 ◼   ► Mac world columns. Okay. Yay. So Avalon is a place. It's the city on Santa Catalina Island. It is the

01:15:46 ◼   ► city on that Island. So if you were going to do a mountain lion, snow leopard, high Sierra kind of

01:15:55 ◼   ► reveal Avalon, not only a pleasant name in a lot of ways, but directly relates to Catalina. So it

01:16:05 ◼   ► makes sense. There was a part of me though, that was wondering if I would want to pick something

01:16:09 ◼   ► else because like they might want to make a big deal of this. This could be a big version of Mac

01:16:14 ◼   ► OS, you know, even if it is just like, Oh, because during this version of Mac OS arm chips will exist

01:16:22 ◼   ► and they may want to give it a bigger name for that reason was another thing that was like,

01:16:27 ◼   ► I don't think that it is as easy this time to pick that they will make the like tick tock of the

01:16:35 ◼   ► naming that they've been doing, right. Where they pick a big name and then a name that relates to

01:16:39 ◼   ► that place, you know, like snow Catalina or whatever. Um, like I, I, you know, so I still

01:16:45 ◼   ► think whilst there is some logic to Avalon, it's still a risk. What do you think it is? And I'll

01:16:50 ◼   ► tell you the two other names that I thought. All right. So my backup beyond Avalon is another

01:16:57 ◼   ► Channel Islands Island, which is San Clemente, which is also the name of a city in, uh, in Orange

01:17:03 ◼   ► County. It's a beautiful city. Um, and so San Clemente is a pleasant, it will make people

01:17:10 ◼   ► pronounce things with Spanish place names like El Capitan, and you'll just have to deal with it.

01:17:15 ◼   ► And, uh, it's my fallback because I thought I also think, could we come up with a theme that follows

01:17:22 ◼   ► on Catalina rather than completely erasing it? Cause I think it's better, more likely than not,

01:17:29 ◼   ► let's say that Apple views this edition of Mac OS as a, you know, we're taking a year to tighten

01:17:37 ◼   ► everything up and it's not a heavy feature year. Um, so that would be the kind of name you'd use.

01:17:42 ◼   ► What else do you have? Sequoia. Sure. It's another national park. And Santa Cruz. Mm-hmm.

01:17:48 ◼   ► That's a, that is, uh, not only like San Clemente, it's a city and also one of the channel, channel

01:17:53 ◼   ► islands. So could, could be. I just think that, uh, both of those sound really nice. So what do

01:18:00 ◼   ► you get for the bonus round? You get a bonus point? It's a point. It's a full point. All right.

01:18:04 ◼   ► Yeah. Well, I'll be very sad if it's Avalon given that I let you go first and you pick the name that

01:18:10 ◼   ► I wrote last week. So, okay. Okay. Well, I will say I didn't remember it. I actually hadn't read

01:18:15 ◼   ► that column yet. It's in my notes and for the next episode, but we don't need that. Do we? Cause, uh,

01:18:19 ◼   ► thank you for Avalon. Yeah. You're welcome. Should we talk about what we didn't pick? Do you want to

01:18:26 ◼   ► know what my actual 10th round pick was? Yeah. Improvements to FaceTime. Improvements to FaceTime.

01:18:32 ◼   ► Like Siri, it could use improvement. Yeah. And also is like, you know, would, would be a thing

01:18:39 ◼   ► that people would especially want. Now it would be a thing that I'm sure has bumped its way up

01:18:44 ◼   ► Apple's priority list. Right. Because they've already done some stuff. They've already made

01:18:49 ◼   ► some changes to, to FaceTime in the, to intervening time. Right. Like they did the,

01:18:55 ◼   ► it wasn't like improvements as much as it was fixing something that was annoying people,

01:18:59 ◼   ► uh, which was the, the, in group chats, the, uh, bubbles changing size and moving around.

01:19:05 ◼   ► Um, they gave you the ability to turn that off. I don't really know what improvements to FaceTime

01:19:09 ◼   ► would be exactly, but I mean, honestly, I could imagine them just making an almost Zoom grid, like

01:19:16 ◼   ► display option, you know? Um, but, but yeah, we'll, we'll see on that one. I'm not sure.

01:19:22 ◼   ► I had a couple left since you took the display, which I didn't pick in my last round. So it was

01:19:29 ◼   ► there for the taking, but that was literally my other way to go. Um, I had a couple of meta picks

01:19:34 ◼   ► that I was thinking of seriously. I didn't want to overload the draft with too much presentation.

01:19:39 ◼   ► Even though I'm very curious about the presentation. So I had a photo or video of a past

01:19:45 ◼   ► WWDC in San Jose. So like trying to remind, remind you of the good times basically, and be like,

01:19:55 ◼   ► I know we can't do it this year, but remember the good times and remember when there were people

01:20:00 ◼   ► in, in a convention center and outside on the streets and wasn't that nice. So, uh, I was,

01:20:06 ◼   ► I was going to pick that, but I decided not to go that meta. And then the one that I think is a

01:20:10 ◼   ► reach, but it struck me actually over the weekend. Um, I was taking a walk and, you know, had my,

01:20:16 ◼   ► had my mask with me and all of that. And I thought, well, I imagine that the presentation

01:20:23 ◼   ► will acknowledge, uh, protests and the black lives matter movement. Um, I would also imagine that,

01:20:30 ◼   ► that it will acknowledge COVID-19. Right. And so my pick was going to be a COVID-19

01:20:37 ◼   ► related new announcement. And I think it might happen. I don't have any information about this,

01:20:43 ◼   ► but the idea that perhaps there is something going on in the background where Apple is working,

01:20:48 ◼   ► it could be as simple as we're releasing our tracking, you know, our tracking app today,

01:20:53 ◼   ► or this week, or our, you know, official turned on by everything tracking stuff. Um,

01:21:00 ◼   ► or it could be, uh, we're announcing that we're working with these countries or these states or

01:21:06 ◼   ► whatever, that there will be some kind of we're announcing as a part of this event that we're

01:21:12 ◼   ► doing all of this other stuff that you didn't know about regarding COVID-19. Um, or it could even be

01:21:17 ◼   ► like we're donating or we're, you know, but a new COVID-19 related announcement. That was one that I

01:21:23 ◼   ► I toyed with because I think there's a chance I know they'll talk about it,

01:21:26 ◼   ► but I think there's a chance that they would make a new announcement regarding it.

01:21:28 ◼   ► I have two others that I want to mention. I have more on my list, but there's stuff that we've

01:21:33 ◼   ► spoken about a bit in the last couple of weeks anyway, you know, like keyboard stuff and that

01:21:38 ◼   ► kind of stuff for the iPad. Uh, one is new iPad hardware, some description. Um, I think we could

01:21:44 ◼   ► like how we see an iMac. We could see an update to the regular iPads here. Um, or an iPad mini,

01:21:50 ◼   ► something like that. There have been lots of rumors of, of some, uh, some new stuff going on here.

01:21:55 ◼   ► We could see that now as we rolled that into a pick that was new iPad hardware. Cause it could

01:22:00 ◼   ► be the air or the mini or the nameless iPad or whatever. I think that it, I mean, they're never

01:22:07 ◼   ► bad time to update an iPad, so maybe so. And then the last thing is a new podcasting initiative.

01:22:16 ◼   ► I don't have any sense as to whether Apple's doing something. I just want to say that completely up

01:22:24 ◼   ► front, right? Like, I don't know, right? Like if they're working on something, they haven't told

01:22:27 ◼   ► me what it is, but I do think that if Apple are working on something related to podcasting,

01:22:35 ◼   ► something that may establish them or again, or try and put up some fight against Spotify,

01:22:42 ◼   ► they might want to talk about it now. Right. So I have no idea what they're going to do there,

01:22:52 ◼   ► but I think they could have something in the works, something to offer to podcasters,

01:22:57 ◼   ► something to, to talk about. I don't know what it might be. This is more than just like, Hey,

01:23:00 ◼   ► we updated the podcast app, but like some, some real stuff that they might want to talk about,

01:23:05 ◼   ► but I could also imagine this thing existing, but as a session at WWDC, which I've done before,

01:23:12 ◼   ► they had a podcasting session last time. Uh, over the last couple of years, they've announced like

01:23:16 ◼   ► analytics stuff in those sessions. Uh, but I think that this could be something maybe a little bit

01:23:20 ◼   ► bigger, but, uh, I haven't, you know, there's a lot of smoke around this, right. Apple have been

01:23:26 ◼   ► hiring people for podcasting. I had the Apple news audio announced on my list as well. And that's

01:23:33 ◼   ► not pod, not quite podcasting, but it's related this like audio stuff that they're doing audio

01:23:38 ◼   ► initiative. We probably could have rolled it all together and like a new audio initiative and it

01:23:42 ◼   ► would have counted for both. Um, and it might've been a better choice to pick, but yeah, there's

01:23:47 ◼   ► a lot of rumbling and this could be, I was really unclear about services in general. Like how much

01:23:54 ◼   ► are they going to pollute the WWDC keynote with services, especially since this is something that

01:24:00 ◼   ► I keep thinking about about this event is it's a, it's an event that'll get people watching.

01:24:06 ◼   ► So it's an Apple event. That's worth announcing things. If you've got them at the same time,

01:24:10 ◼   ► it's also a completely virtual event. Apple could do another one of these as a press event

01:24:14 ◼   ► at any time, right? Like once they do this, they could come back in six weeks and just do a press

01:24:19 ◼   ► event and everybody gets to watch it live. Right. So, uh, do they address services deeply or do they

01:24:26 ◼   ► not because it's a developer audience. And I think that there again are strong arguments, both ways,

01:24:31 ◼   ► which is why I am so fascinated by the stage craft of what they're going to ultimately do, because

01:24:36 ◼   ► there are lots of decisions to make. This could be the most developer focused event ever. I suspect

01:24:42 ◼   ► it won't be. I suspect that because people are going to be paying attention, they're going to

01:24:46 ◼   ► use this as an opportunity to roll out other stuff, including maybe an iMac. Right. But I do wonder,

01:24:51 ◼   ► because they could section that stuff off and do another event whenever, right? Especially if they

01:24:56 ◼   ► don't have to invite people, they just have to produce it because the services bundle is out

01:25:01 ◼   ► there as something that continues to be suggested and something they could talk about. But I think

01:25:06 ◼   ► about that and I think, are they really going to do that at WWDC? That would also be something you

01:25:09 ◼   ► could roll into the fall for an iPhone event because those are the two events, I think the

01:25:14 ◼   ► only two events we can count on this year. So even though they could do one on the drop of a hat if

01:25:18 ◼   ► they wanted to. So I didn't pick services or the Apple news audio stuff because I'm just not sure

01:25:24 ◼   ► how they're going to deal with that. Yeah. I, I, this could very easily be a September thing,

01:25:33 ◼   ► right? For the services bundle, uh, unless they have other stuff to announce. I don't know.

01:25:39 ◼   ► I also didn't, I actually wanted to pick the, there were a couple of watch entries that I was

01:25:44 ◼   ► really tempted to pick and didn't go with because I thought we were kind of overdoing it on the

01:25:48 ◼   ► watch, which to be honest, doesn't interest me that much, even though even as a watch user,

01:25:52 ◼   ► I'm like, and it was true independence from iPhone. That totally could happen. I doubt it

01:25:57 ◼   ► will happen, but it totally there they're on the precipice of letting you set up a watch. And

01:26:02 ◼   ► actually I have in my mind that I think one of these days, Apple is going to announce that I,

01:26:08 ◼   ► that Apple watch will support Android. I think that's going to happen. I think they're going to

01:26:12 ◼   ► just slide in there and say, we got it all baby. We're taking it over. Forget, forget all those

01:26:17 ◼   ► Android watches. We're not, we're going to just take it over. It's a wacky idea, but I'm like,

01:26:22 ◼   ► that's a, that's a power move and they're not beneath that. Right. And you know, like,

01:26:26 ◼   ► so it's so sad. Android wear has failed Apple watch to the rescue and it won't be as good as it will

01:26:31 ◼   ► be on an iPhone, but we'll let you do some basic, like, you know, notifications and things like that.

01:26:36 ◼   ► And mostly Apple watch is independent anyway, but it will talk to your Android phone when necessary.

01:26:41 ◼   ► Right. Because that's the next step after true independence is well, what if I'm an Android user?

01:26:46 ◼   ► It's like, okay, we can, we could do something for Android users. Um, I think that that's part

01:26:51 ◼   ► of that, but I don't know if they're ready to do that now, but I think they're going to get there,

01:26:54 ◼   ► especially the independence thing. And then activity rings is another one that again,

01:26:58 ◼   ► will happen now or will happen in the fall when they have a new Apple watch. But

01:27:01 ◼   ► I think we want them to let people redefine activity rings in some ways because not everybody

01:27:07 ◼   ► wants it. Those three, right? Like for me, the sit stand ring is dumb and I would rather,

01:27:14 ◼   ► I would honestly rather have a sleep ring than that, but that goes to sleep tracking.

01:27:18 ◼   ► The Android thing was initially sounds like a wild idea when you think about it, right? Like

01:27:23 ◼   ► people say, Oh no, you know, it's about being in the Apple ecosystem. Well, this then becomes a way

01:27:28 ◼   ► to give people a taste of the Apple ecosystem. It's like, look how great the Apple watch is with

01:27:33 ◼   ► your Android phone. By the way, it's so much better if you have an iPhone. I'll give one last

01:27:39 ◼   ► thing here, Jason, cause I'm just going to keep picking it now, whether it's in the draft or not.

01:27:44 ◼   ► It would just like, as a thing that I think has to happen at some point, air tags. They got to release

01:27:49 ◼   ► them at some point. Um, it could be now could be, uh, randomly in like July. It could be at September.

01:27:58 ◼   ► It could be November, but we know this product exists in some form. We've seen, you know,

01:28:04 ◼   ► everybody's seen like screenshots of code where it's mentioned. We've seen it on support documents.

01:28:09 ◼   ► They, this product exists. It's definitely a product in Apple's lineup. Uh, we're going to

01:28:14 ◼   ► have to wait and see if they do it now, but I think if they're doing other hardware, maybe,

01:28:21 ◼   ► maybe, maybe. All right. That is the draft. That is the upgrade WWDC 2020 draft in our show notes

01:28:29 ◼   ► today, you can find links to get a PDF scorecard and an interactive scorecard. So you can score

01:28:36 ◼   ► along with us during the keynote. And we will be back next week as soon going live as soon as we

01:28:42 ◼   ► can after the keynote and relay.fm/live or in the relay FM members discord. And then we'll get the

01:28:48 ◼   ► episode out as soon as we possibly can after the, uh, after we finished, right? Like I bust

01:28:54 ◼   ► as fast as I can to get that thing through. And if you are an upgrade plus member, thank you so much.

01:29:01 ◼   ► If you have subscribed during the time that you've been listening to this episode in upgrade plus

01:29:06 ◼   ► today, we're going to talk about a bunch of stuff. We're going to talk about how we did with our

01:29:09 ◼   ► draft picks. Um, I'm going to talk about something weird that happened to me during the episode

01:29:14 ◼   ► today, uh, which should be fun to share. Um, we've got, we've got a bunch of great stuff there.

01:29:19 ◼   ► Don't forget you go to get upgrade plus.com or you can just click the link in the show notes.

01:29:24 ◼   ► It's the very first link in the show notes for this episode. You can get upgrade plus you'll get

01:29:29 ◼   ► extra content and get the show with no ads. I want to thank everybody that is an upgrade plus member.

01:29:34 ◼   ► And I also want to thank our sponsors for this episode that were KiwiCo, Linode, Pingdom and

01:29:39 ◼   ► Smile. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next time with our WWDC reactions. Until then,

01:29:48 ◼   ► say goodbye Jason Snow. Farewell upgrade-ians.

01:29:51 ◼   ► [Music]