Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:14 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 324.

00:00:19 ◼   ► And today is a surprise draft episode.

00:00:22 ◼   ► We're going to get to that a little later on in the show.

00:00:25 ◼   ► This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Squarespace, KiwiCo,

00:00:29 ◼   ► and SaneBox.

00:00:30 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by my partner in crime, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Woop woop woop.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Red alert.

00:00:38 ◼   ► And to crime, Myke, to crime.

00:00:40 ◼   ► So, yeah, a few minutes, very few minutes before the show recording began,

00:00:48 ◼   ► Apple sent us both a little invitation to an Apple event next Tuesday, the 10th.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Yep.

00:00:57 ◼   ► So this was, uh, I thought that it would be on the 10th, uh, which it was.

00:01:03 ◼   ► I thought we would get an invite maybe on Wednesday.

00:01:05 ◼   ► Uh, we did not get an invite on Wednesday.

00:01:08 ◼   ► We got it today instead, which makes sense in hindsight.

00:01:11 ◼   ► A friend of the show, Carl's the Gray, me and him were having a

00:01:14 ◼   ► conversation about this earlier and he was right and I was wrong.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Uh, but this makes perfect sense because obviously the election's

00:01:21 ◼   ► going on this week in America, right?

00:01:23 ◼   ► So you maybe want to get your invitation out before that.

00:01:27 ◼   ► And, uh, that's what they've ended up doing.

00:01:29 ◼   ► So yeah, get out of the way of it.

00:01:31 ◼   ► And, uh, and we don't wait until the week before Thanksgiving.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Cause there's been a lot of speculation about whether Apple wants to push.

00:01:37 ◼   ► The reason you want to announce things.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Not too late is because it gives you a little of a holiday buying season

00:01:45 ◼   ► for whatever those new products are.

00:01:46 ◼   ► If you really do intend them to come out before the last day of December,

00:01:51 ◼   ► which apparently Apple does and that's, that's great.

00:01:54 ◼   ► So, um, they're gonna, they're gonna clear out the decks.

00:01:58 ◼   ► This has been a, an Apple product release season, like no other in that we are

00:02:04 ◼   ► going to get three distinct online, but three distinct events with three distinct

00:02:10 ◼   ► product rollouts, pretty wild.

00:02:13 ◼   ► And, um, and yes, because we love you Upgradients because we love you.

00:02:17 ◼   ► We just, uh, spent the last few minutes before beginning completely

00:02:22 ◼   ► rejiggering the show and, uh, adding a draft where, because there should be

00:02:26 ◼   ► a draft and there is because Apple gave us one minute of warning, uh, we're

00:02:32 ◼   ► going to draft now, which is great.

00:02:34 ◼   ► Cause I like having the draft be in a regular episode, not an emergency

00:02:38 ◼   ► episode that drops some random day.

00:02:40 ◼   ► That is not our usual day.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Jason says now he means later on in the show, we still have a bunch of

00:02:45 ◼   ► other stuff that we do want to get to.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I mean, now is in the MP3 file that you're listening to now as a part of a

00:02:52 ◼   ► larger part of this complete podcast breakfast, uh, it's the nutritious part

00:02:57 ◼   ► at the end or no, is it the dessert?

00:02:59 ◼   ► It's sort of a dessert.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:01 ◼   ► We'll say that.

00:03:02 ◼   ► So we've obviously got a lot of stuff that we do want to do with the draft, but

00:03:07 ◼   ► we'll get to that a little later on in the episode, I do want to start this

00:03:10 ◼   ► episode of upgrade the same way that we start every episode of upgrade by

00:03:13 ◼   ► asking you a hashtag Snell Talk question.

00:03:15 ◼   ► This week's come from stitch.

00:03:17 ◼   ► Stitch wants to know, Jason, what happens to your old phones and other

00:03:20 ◼   ► devices when you upgrade to new ones?

00:03:22 ◼   ► What do you do with them?

00:03:23 ◼   ► I have bad, boring news.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Um, Oh, the devices never get, get returned.

00:03:31 ◼   ► They either get rolled down to other family members or they get put in my

00:03:39 ◼   ► big drawer, Oh, old tech that I keep around.

00:03:43 ◼   ► I have many old iPhone models in a drawer in my office.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Uh, some times I keep them for photography reasons or nostalgia reasons.

00:03:53 ◼   ► Sometimes, you know, you never know when you're going to need to take

00:03:55 ◼   ► a picture of the original iPhone.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And then also for recent models, the truth is I keep them

00:04:01 ◼   ► around for comparison reasons.

00:04:02 ◼   ► So like I did my iPhone 12 review last week, we were talking

00:04:06 ◼   ► about it before it posted.

00:04:07 ◼   ► And in that review, I've got shots of the 12 next to the 11 and the 12

00:04:12 ◼   ► pro next to the 11 pro and you hold on to phones like that.

00:04:17 ◼   ► So you can do stuff like that, or you can run, uh, uh, speed tests

00:04:21 ◼   ► on old models and compare.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Like there's lots of reasons like that.

00:04:25 ◼   ► So I can't, I can't be one of those people that's on the iPhone trade in

00:04:29 ◼   ► programming gets a new iPhone every year.

00:04:30 ◼   ► Cause I kind of need the old iPhone.

00:04:32 ◼   ► So instead what sometimes happens is my iPhone, uh, that I bought will get

00:04:37 ◼   ► rolled down to, let's say my wife and then I will buy a new one and I'll

00:04:40 ◼   ► also be able to occasionally use hers or her iPad or her Mac for, uh, testing

00:04:46 ◼   ► as a reference system, an older reference system.

00:04:48 ◼   ► And that's a thing that happens in our house.

00:04:50 ◼   ► Like she currently is using the, uh, 10 inch, um, iPad pro that I bought

00:04:57 ◼   ► because I wanted to test both.

00:05:01 ◼   ► And, uh, the Apple review unit that I got was the larger one and I wanted

00:05:06 ◼   ► the smaller one and then I bought that one and then I had that one and I

00:05:10 ◼   ► didn't actually want to use it.

00:05:11 ◼   ► So now she has it, but every now and then I go back and I'm like, I need to

00:05:14 ◼   ► run something on this because she was running iOS 13 when I was running the

00:05:17 ◼   ► 14 betas and I was able to test something on her it's, this is the life of.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Uh, a tech writer.

00:05:24 ◼   ► So I would say it's abnormal.

00:05:26 ◼   ► There's some roll roll back.

00:05:28 ◼   ► There's some stuff stashed in drawers.

00:05:30 ◼   ► That's just how it is.

00:05:31 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question for, to help us open a

00:05:36 ◼   ► future episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag snow talk.

00:05:39 ◼   ► I use the command question, Mark, snow talk in the relay FM members discord.

00:05:43 ◼   ► I expect today is going to be a show that is on the longer side of things.

00:05:47 ◼   ► If after that show you want another two and a half hours of Jason snow, go and

00:05:51 ◼   ► check out this week's episode of the talk show.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Yes, I'm there, uh, talking to John.

00:05:56 ◼   ► It's one of those things where I had my Friday afternoon free and I was like,

00:05:59 ◼   ► Oh, what am I going to do?

00:06:00 ◼   ► I could work on a long term project.

00:06:01 ◼   ► I could get ahead on 20 max for 2020.

00:06:03 ◼   ► I could clean up my office.

00:06:05 ◼   ► And then I got a text from John saying, Hey, would you like to be on the talk show?

00:06:09 ◼   ► And that was my afternoon.

00:06:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it was really great.

00:06:11 ◼   ► It's, it's a good conversation.

00:06:13 ◼   ► We had a good time.

00:06:13 ◼   ► I always like talking to John and I, uh, it's episode 299.

00:06:17 ◼   ► So I missed the 300 episodes spectacular by that much.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Oh, I guess now that the 300th episode will be reactions to this Apple event.

00:06:26 ◼   ► So that's kind of cool.

00:06:27 ◼   ► I feels, you know, monumental enough for John.

00:06:30 ◼   ► Either that, or it's going to be reactions to the election with maybe Merlin.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:06:35 ◼   ► That would be the other way to do it.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Good.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Either way.

00:06:37 ◼   ► Good point.

00:06:37 ◼   ► Uh, we talked about baseball and not keyboards.

00:06:40 ◼   ► So, uh, sorry, Myke.

00:06:41 ◼   ► One star.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Five baseballs, one star.

00:06:45 ◼   ► There is like, so some of the things that we were going to talk about and some of the

00:06:48 ◼   ► things we will talk about today, we're gonna, there'll be more detail in that

00:06:52 ◼   ► episode because we're going to blow through some of this stuff or maybe a bit

00:06:55 ◼   ► faster than we were planning on, uh, because we have a draft added to the show.

00:07:00 ◼   ► I do have some upstream headlines that are actually really interesting.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So one is a bit of followup.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Uh, Apple TV and TV plus is going to be coming to the new Xbox consoles.

00:07:10 ◼   ► Uh, last time we spoke about the fact that they've come to PlayStation.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Um, this seems obvious and is again, as we mentioned last time, we can

00:07:18 ◼   ► reiterate those points, uh, a very smart move from Apple to make sure that they

00:07:22 ◼   ► are everywhere that their customers would want to watch their content.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Uh, John Stewart has signed a, uh, well, it's appearing that he is going to sign

00:07:34 ◼   ► a first look deal with Apple TV plus that includes a new current

00:07:39 ◼   ► affairs show for the service.

00:07:41 ◼   ► The show has been signed for multiple seasons already with the format being

00:07:45 ◼   ► hour long episodes focused on a single subject.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Um, it's doesn't seem to be like a daily show.

00:07:52 ◼   ► Neither does it seem to be, cause when I read this, it's like,

00:07:56 ◼   ► well that that's John Oliver.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:58 ◼   ► John Oliver is weekly by and large.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:00 ◼   ► The report says it won't be daily or weekly.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Which makes me think that it may be in somewhere in the range of somewhere

00:08:07 ◼   ► in between a John Oliver show and a David Letterman show where, you know,

00:08:13 ◼   ► David Letterman does, although they it's Netflix, so they release them in batches.

00:08:16 ◼   ► But, uh, you know, he does a handful of shows a year.

00:08:19 ◼   ► My guess is that it will be something in between that John Stewart will do a,

00:08:23 ◼   ► you know, maybe a, a monthly or something like that rollout.

00:08:28 ◼   ► It seems weird to me because like that I'm only, uh, I'm not as familiar with

00:08:33 ◼   ► John Stewart as Americans would be.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:35 ◼   ► But I've, I've consumed a lot of his content, especially towards the tail end,

00:08:39 ◼   ► uh, of his run, it was the daily show, right?

00:08:41 ◼   ► The daily show, right.

00:08:42 ◼   ► The show that Trevor Noah hosts.

00:08:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:44 ◼   ► And towards the end of his run was when these shows started to pivot

00:08:48 ◼   ► to focusing on social media.

00:08:49 ◼   ► So I would see a lot of John Stewart clips, you know, especially around

00:08:53 ◼   ► like the 2016 election kind of time.

00:08:55 ◼   ► And knowing the type of stuff that he is good at, which is that like newsy

00:09:00 ◼   ► stuff, it seems peculiar to me that they wouldn't put it on a schedule

00:09:06 ◼   ► because what is he going to cover that you could release in batches?

00:09:12 ◼   ► Well, you could, I don't think it's going to be batches because it's,

00:09:14 ◼   ► it's Apple.

00:09:15 ◼   ► So it'll be, it'll be, you know, one at a time because Apple has really

00:09:20 ◼   ► embraced the one at a time format.

00:09:22 ◼   ► I think you could argue that it's a show like John Oliver's show other than

00:09:25 ◼   ► the top segment that is a news deconstruction and, you know, really is

00:09:31 ◼   ► why they call it last week tonight.

00:09:32 ◼   ► The bulk of that show is this, it's timely ish, but it's something that

00:09:38 ◼   ► they've spent many weeks researching.

00:09:40 ◼   ► That's an extended piece about a single subject.

00:09:43 ◼   ► And so if I'm trying to imagine what John Stewart's Apple TV plus show

00:09:46 ◼   ► looks like, it's that it's, it's essentially like almost, almost a mini

00:09:53 ◼   ► documentary in a way, like something that is like those John Oliver segments,

00:09:57 ◼   ► but more and probably with more groundwork, you know, more like people in

00:10:03 ◼   ► the field and stuff is my, it's just my guess about it that that's what

00:10:06 ◼   ► they'll do is that it'll allow him to dive a little bit deeper.

00:10:10 ◼   ► And maybe if you think about like the Letterman Netflix show, where it's

00:10:13 ◼   ► not just the interview, but also like a pre, you know, a taped segment out

00:10:18 ◼   ► in the field somewhere, like in the latest season, he goes to the

00:10:21 ◼   ► drugstore with Kim Kardashian, right?

00:10:23 ◼   ► Like stuff like that.

00:10:25 ◼   ► So I, I, um, that my guess is it's something like that, but it may be

00:10:29 ◼   ► something totally different.

00:10:30 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:10:31 ◼   ► It is though, for those who don't know an enormous coup, um, Apple brought

00:10:37 ◼   ► bringing John Stewart back in any form.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Because he was, he had a deal with HBO that was supposed to generate like

00:10:44 ◼   ► an animated show and they had like lots of technical problems.

00:10:47 ◼   ► Cause it was going to be a timely animated show and they couldn't get

00:10:50 ◼   ► it to work right and they pulled the plug on it, space ghost coast to coast.

00:10:53 ◼   ► That's what that reminds me of.

00:10:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:55 ◼   ► So he made that deal with our friend, the pep, Richard plepler, uh, who is

00:11:00 ◼   ► the head of HBO in that era, of course, the plep left HBO as did many

00:11:04 ◼   ► executives when H AT&T turned it over and made HBO into a feeder for HBO max.

00:11:09 ◼   ► Um, well, pleplers got a deal with Apple.

00:11:13 ◼   ► Stewart now is going to have a deal with Apple.

00:11:15 ◼   ► Apparently plepler is a, an exec producer on the project.

00:11:19 ◼   ► So it sounds like this is the fruit of Apple making a deal with Richard

00:11:23 ◼   ► plepler and then he's using his contacts to get people he knows in touch with

00:11:28 ◼   ► Apple.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Um, and this all fits in to something that we've been talking about for a long

00:11:32 ◼   ► time, which is that Apple TV plus is sort of playing HBO's classic game,

00:11:40 ◼   ► which is not a huge amount of content, but very high quality content.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Um, especially since HBO is not playing that game quite as much anymore because

00:11:48 ◼   ► of the focus now on expanding into HBO max.

00:11:51 ◼   ► So we're going to talk about a press release that Apple put out about Ted

00:11:54 ◼   ► Lasso recently, but they put some wording in this press release that 100% says

00:12:00 ◼   ► this is this I'll read this to you.

00:12:02 ◼   ► After its launch in November, 2019 Apple TV plus became the first all original

00:12:07 ◼   ► streaming service launch around the world as premiere more original hits

00:12:11 ◼   ► from receive more award recognitions faster than any other streaming service.

00:12:14 ◼   ► That is HBO.

00:12:15 ◼   ► They are saying they are HBO now, right?

00:12:18 ◼   ► Like we are all originals.

00:12:20 ◼   ► That's all we are.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:12:22 ◼   ► And so I think that Apple have found the ability that they can call themselves at

00:12:26 ◼   ► now and it's because it's what they want to do and it's because HBO just isn't

00:12:30 ◼   ► HBO anymore.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Um, so this is where they are.

00:12:33 ◼   ► This is what they're focusing on and it's a, it's a good strategy.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Now, something that was in this report from the Hollywood report that I've not

00:12:39 ◼   ► seen reported more widely.

00:12:41 ◼   ► Um, but I want to mention because it's very, uh, pertinent to the stuff that we

00:12:47 ◼   ► talk about.

00:12:47 ◼   ► So quote a show runner for the forthcoming series for which Apple is expected to

00:12:52 ◼   ► offer a companion podcast is yet to be named.

00:12:54 ◼   ► So the show runner is going to have a podcast that focuses on the show itself.

00:13:01 ◼   ► That is super interesting to me.

00:13:03 ◼   ► Yeah, this is, this is a, I think a natural, I think you need to do this and

00:13:06 ◼   ► this is, we seen again, HBO, not to bring HBO back, but HBO did this very

00:13:10 ◼   ► successfully with Chernobyl and then they also did it with Watchmen a little bit.

00:13:15 ◼   ► And I think, I think honestly that a podcast, if you're not going to do a video

00:13:21 ◼   ► basically after show, you at the very least, you need to do a podcast and you

00:13:25 ◼   ► probably need to do one regardless of if you do an after show, I think official TV

00:13:29 ◼   ► series.

00:13:29 ◼   ► If I was at a streaming service or a TV network, it'd be like, we have to do a

00:13:34 ◼   ► podcast with our creative people because it's just part of it.

00:13:40 ◼   ► It's like the, there are never too many episodes of any of these things, right?

00:13:45 ◼   ► But whatever you have, you've got to have the, the extra stuff for the, for the

00:13:50 ◼   ► super fans, for people who just are starved for more.

00:13:52 ◼   ► So that'll be part of their strategy.

00:13:54 ◼   ► I think for everything they do going forward, to be honest.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Apple has ordered a third season of Ted Lasso before production has even begun on

00:14:02 ◼   ► season two.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Uh, Apple are touting critical response and Rotten Tomatoes ratings in the press

00:14:08 ◼   ► release.

00:14:09 ◼   ► This is very clearly the hit that we believed that it was.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:13 ◼   ► They even, I mean, there's a deadline report that breaks out some stats and

00:14:17 ◼   ► they're good and it's interesting to see stats for Apple TV stuff, but it's funny.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Um, Bill Lawrence, the executive producer of the show who did scrubs and Cougar

00:14:25 ◼   ► town and a bunch of other stuff.

00:14:26 ◼   ► He said on Twitter like a week or two ago that they were working on season three,

00:14:31 ◼   ► two and three.

00:14:32 ◼   ► Um, so he, he kinda got ahead of this, but you know, what do we talk about here?

00:14:38 ◼   ► The entertainment industry is always ahead of the official announcements for this

00:14:43 ◼   ► stuff, but Apple did officially announce it.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And that's what I kind of find fascinating is Apple officially announced that it's

00:14:49 ◼   ► a, it's a season twos in production.

00:14:51 ◼   ► Season three has also been ordered and, um, they, they, you know, they are

00:14:57 ◼   ► apparently seeing really great metrics from Ted Lasso, which is, it's funny.

00:15:01 ◼   ► This is a show that nobody really expected, but I think you could almost have

00:15:04 ◼   ► written this script, right?

00:15:05 ◼   ► Like Apple's going to spend a lot of money trying to get buzz worthy shows, and

00:15:09 ◼   ► then it's going to be some show that is not the one that they spent all the money

00:15:12 ◼   ► on that emerges because that's sort of how it happens.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Well, cause it has that real feeling to it in that way.

00:15:19 ◼   ► Right?

00:15:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:19 ◼   ► Isn't all glitz and glamour.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Well, and honestly, the morning show was so hyped that did it have a chance to

00:15:24 ◼   ► emerge as a success?

00:15:26 ◼   ► No, because it was so heavily promoted that even if you watched it and liked it,

00:15:30 ◼   ► and I think people did, it's never going to be a, you know, breakout emergent hit

00:15:36 ◼   ► because it was, it was so publicized.

00:15:40 ◼   ► Whereas Ted Lasso had to get there on its own.

00:15:42 ◼   ► If something's overhyped, it's very difficult to live up to it.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Clearly the word of mouth is, uh, is great, but you know, the, this deadline

00:15:50 ◼   ► report says 25% new viewers growing overall viewership by 600% new records for

00:15:56 ◼   ► completion and engagement, which is interesting because, you know, Netflix

00:15:59 ◼   ► plays this game where they do a lot of like, this movie was watched by a lot of

00:16:01 ◼   ► people and it turns out it's the first five minutes for first three minutes or

00:16:04 ◼   ► something.

00:16:05 ◼   ► And their metric is really, they watched long enough for it not to have been a

00:16:08 ◼   ► mistake, but it's not watching it right.

00:16:11 ◼   ► It's, it's having chosen to start it, which is not the same.

00:16:15 ◼   ► So I find this interesting that this report says records for completion and

00:16:21 ◼   ► engagement.

00:16:22 ◼   ► I would imagine engagement factors in like watching the next episode and how

00:16:27 ◼   ► quickly do you go on to the next episode?

00:16:29 ◼   ► Um, and then completion is you watch the whole thing, right?

00:16:33 ◼   ► Which is actually what watching a TV show is not watching the first two

00:16:37 ◼   ► minutes.

00:16:38 ◼   ► Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's great because we, we love it and we've seen the

00:16:45 ◼   ► word of mouth happened for it.

00:16:47 ◼   ► And as we mentioned last time, um, Myke and I were both on an incomparable

00:16:51 ◼   ► episode about it that people can check out.

00:16:53 ◼   ► Uh, it's great.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Yep.

00:16:55 ◼   ► Great show.

00:16:56 ◼   ► But it's also nice to see that that thing we thought we were witnessing is

00:16:59 ◼   ► actually true, that this is a word of mouth, um, growing, spreading, uh, success

00:17:05 ◼   ► for Apple TV+.

00:17:06 ◼   ► And I, I was, it's funny, I was scrolling on Twitter the other day and I saw

00:17:11 ◼   ► somebody with a real contrarian take who said, um, nobody knows that Apple TV+

00:17:16 ◼   ► exists.

00:17:16 ◼   ► And anybody who's talking about Ted Lasso being a word of mouth show or any of

00:17:21 ◼   ► their shows being word of mouth shows is in a tech bubble.

00:17:24 ◼   ► And, uh, and it's not true in the real world.

00:17:28 ◼   ► And, you know, honestly, the, their proof of it was that their, their mom or

00:17:32 ◼   ► something hadn't heard of it, which is itself just an anecdote and itself just

00:17:36 ◼   ► a bubble.

00:17:37 ◼   ► The irony is while I was scrolling, Lauren was texting with a friend of hers

00:17:45 ◼   ► who was asking, how do I get Apple TV+?

00:17:48 ◼   ► Because she wanted to see, she had heard about a show, actually not Ted Lasso.

00:17:53 ◼   ► It was long way up.

00:17:54 ◼   ► She'd heard about that show and said, we want to watch it.

00:17:59 ◼   ► How do I get Apple TV+?

00:18:00 ◼   ► And the truth is they had an older Samsung TV that didn't support Apple TV+

00:18:04 ◼   ► and they had a very old Apple TV that didn't work.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And her solution was, I think, to buy a Roku box for like 25 bucks.

00:18:13 ◼   ► So she could watch Apple TV+.

00:18:15 ◼   ► But, uh, so I thought that was funny that, uh, you know, everything's an

00:18:18 ◼   ► anecdote, but, uh, I, I got somebody coming to us because we know about Apple

00:18:24 ◼   ► stuff because they had heard about a show on Apple TV+.

00:18:28 ◼   ► So it's, you know, Apple TV+, there's still a question of like, how do I get

00:18:32 ◼   ► it? And that's hard and Apple is working on it by making these deals with

00:18:36 ◼   ► Microsoft and others to get on every platform they can possibly be on.

00:18:40 ◼   ► But you know, something is happening.

00:18:42 ◼   ► Definitely there have been some breakouts and that's sort of how

00:18:45 ◼   ► you have to grow the service.

00:18:46 ◼   ► Apple One has launched.

00:18:50 ◼   ► It was announced on the earnings call, which we're going to talk

00:18:53 ◼   ► about here in a little bit.

00:18:55 ◼   ► What a world we live in, Myke.

00:18:56 ◼   ► Bundles.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Apple's, Apple's bundling now.

00:18:59 ◼   ► We live in a bundle world.

00:19:01 ◼   ► It kind of launched a little bit unceremoniously in a couple of ways.

00:19:05 ◼   ► One, no Fitness+, yet.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Uh, I'm not sure why they launched without Fitness+, if Fitness+ is coming.

00:19:11 ◼   ► But to be honest, Fitness+ is only available in a couple of territories.

00:19:15 ◼   ► I think like three or four, it's not many.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Um, so maybe that's part of the reason, but it still just seems interesting

00:19:22 ◼   ► to me, like, I don't know why there was a pressure to do it now.

00:19:25 ◼   ► The fact that you have to do it through like the subscriptions thing, like you

00:19:29 ◼   ► go into settings and all of that, I would call this a soft launch.

00:19:32 ◼   ► That's what I would call it.

00:19:33 ◼   ► I feel like this is a soft launch.

00:19:35 ◼   ► Yeah, this is Fitness+ isn't out yet.

00:19:37 ◼   ► And it's not, you know, cause I hope this isn't their plan is to do it this way.

00:19:42 ◼   ► I assume that Apple One is going to get a lot of promotion and you're going to be

00:19:45 ◼   ► able to go somewhere and click and sign up for Apple One and right now you know

00:19:51 ◼   ► how to do it.

00:19:52 ◼   ► You're going to get a red badge and your settings up.

00:19:54 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:19:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:19:56 ◼   ► But the soft launch is the nerds know that it's there and not all of it is even

00:20:01 ◼   ► there yet because the Fitness+ portion of the bundle isn't actually even there.

00:20:05 ◼   ► So, you know, it's a soft launch and I think that maybe is the right way to do

00:20:09 ◼   ► it, right?

00:20:09 ◼   ► Like work, maybe some of the bugs out now before major Apple One marketing push

00:20:15 ◼   ► happens.

00:20:16 ◼   ► Did you sign up?

00:20:18 ◼   ► I did.

00:20:20 ◼   ► I actually signed up this morning and the reason I did it, I was thinking, well, I

00:20:25 ◼   ► got the free Apple TV+ that goes until February.

00:20:27 ◼   ► So do I want to wait?

00:20:29 ◼   ► And then I did the math and I know I did the math on a previous show, but I had to

00:20:32 ◼   ► do it again to find out that I'm already paying $30 a month.

00:20:37 ◼   ► So what I'm paying now without Apple TV+ is the price of Apple One Premiere

00:20:44 ◼   ► because I'm paying for two terabytes of storage, family music and Apple Arcade.

00:20:51 ◼   ► And that's 30 bucks right there.

00:20:54 ◼   ► So now I'm paying the same price.

00:20:56 ◼   ► I only get billed once.

00:20:58 ◼   ► Apple TV+ will remain no extra price forever.

00:21:05 ◼   ► And I get Apple News+, I guess.

00:21:08 ◼   ► So if I want to read some random articles from the Wall Street Journal or a magazine,

00:21:12 ◼   ► I can do that too.

00:21:13 ◼   ► It's just thrown in and I'll get Fitness+ when it launches.

00:21:16 ◼   ► So for me, it was a no brainer because I happen to be somebody who's got family

00:21:20 ◼   ► playing music, two terabytes of storage and is paying for Arcade because that's

00:21:25 ◼   ► literally the price of Apple One Premiere.

00:21:28 ◼   ► How about you?

00:21:30 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I went with the Premiere one.

00:21:33 ◼   ► Like, I'm already playing for like Music and Arcade and will be paying for TV+ and

00:21:38 ◼   ► I play for iCloud storage.

00:21:40 ◼   ► So it's all on the family plan.

00:21:42 ◼   ► Like I had the family plan anyway, and now this is all rolled into the family plan.

00:21:46 ◼   ► This is a thing like, me and Adina were paying for Apple Music separately, I think.

00:21:52 ◼   ► We then got the family thing.

00:21:53 ◼   ► So now we have that all together.

00:21:55 ◼   ► One thing that I actually did like is when I went into my subscription settings, it

00:22:01 ◼   ► labeled Apple Arcade as it kind of says like, oh, now this is in Apple One.

00:22:05 ◼   ► So it will be canceled at the end of the month, which I thought was kind of cool.

00:22:08 ◼   ► I didn't see that for Apple Music, but I assume it will be handled similarly, like

00:22:12 ◼   ► that they're just going to take care of it and I'm not going to get charged multiple

00:22:15 ◼   ► times.

00:22:16 ◼   ► It is now possible to pay for more than two terabytes of iCloud storage because you

00:22:22 ◼   ► can add on additional storage of supplementary charges.

00:22:26 ◼   ► This is one of the interesting things that's come out of this.

00:22:28 ◼   ► And to try and answer the millions of Ask Upgrade questions we have got and will

00:22:33 ◼   ► continue to get, Apple has a support document that tries to assist if you have

00:22:37 ◼   ► different accounts for Apple ID and iCloud and how to make this work.

00:22:41 ◼   ► I will put a link to that in the show notes.

00:22:43 ◼   ► Neither me or Jason, I believe, run iCloud this way.

00:22:47 ◼   ► So we don't have any more information on how you can make that work or how effective

00:22:51 ◼   ► it is.

00:22:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:22:52 ◼   ► Like I just have one Apple ID.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Do you?

00:22:54 ◼   ► I do.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:56 ◼   ► So I'll put a link in the show notes to a support document.

00:22:58 ◼   ► Hopefully it will be of assistance to you.

00:23:00 ◼   ► I think the main thing is you just get to say like, hey, put my storage here and it

00:23:06 ◼   ► will do that for you.

00:23:07 ◼   ► So Apple has thought of at least some way to help you through this.

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00:25:11 ◼   ► Okay, so let's talk about Apple's Q4 financial results.

00:25:17 ◼   ► - Let's do it.

00:25:18 ◼   ► Everything is happening at once.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Everything is happening.

00:25:21 ◼   ► - Well, this one seemed like a foregone conclusion until it wasn't, and now it's

00:25:26 ◼   ► even more interesting than we ever could have imagined when this one was already

00:25:30 ◼   ► going to be really interesting.

00:25:31 ◼   ► But it's interesting in a bunch of ways that we never thought it would be.

00:25:34 ◼   ► - This is the quarter where Apple was going to take it on the chin because of

00:25:39 ◼   ► COVID, right?

00:25:40 ◼   ► - No iPhone, right?

00:25:41 ◼   ► Like that was the reason.

00:25:42 ◼   ► - And no iPhone shipping in a period.

00:25:45 ◼   ► And so, of course, it was their largest fourth financial quarter in history.

00:25:51 ◼   ► Sixty-four point seven billion revenue up.

00:25:53 ◼   ► Only 1%, just a little smidge over last year, which was previously the biggest

00:25:58 ◼   ► fourth financial quarter.

00:25:59 ◼   ► But yeah, they blew it out.

00:26:02 ◼   ► - So iPhone was down 20% year over year.

00:26:05 ◼   ► It was at 26.8 billion.

00:26:07 ◼   ► This was obviously going to happen, right?

00:26:10 ◼   ► There was no iPhone.

00:26:11 ◼   ► - Right.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Apple talked very clearly about how sales of the iPhone were actually up until mid-

00:26:16 ◼   ► September, year over year.

00:26:18 ◼   ► And what happened in mid-September?

00:26:20 ◼   ► Again, you have to think about it this way.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Year over year measurement means how do we do, obviously, but just to be clear, how do

00:26:26 ◼   ► we do this time this year versus this time last year, same time last year?

00:26:30 ◼   ► And mid-September last year, Apple sold new iPhones.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Mid-September this year, didn't happen, right?

00:26:36 ◼   ► The iPhones didn't come until October.

00:26:38 ◼   ► And so, what they're really saying here is until the point where you have a...

00:26:43 ◼   ► what they didn't use the phrase this year, but they usually do, a tough compare,

00:26:47 ◼   ► where it's unfavorable to compare this year to last year because something big

00:26:53 ◼   ► happened last year that didn't happen this year.

00:26:55 ◼   ► And that was the release of the iPhone 11 last year.

00:26:58 ◼   ► So, they didn't do that, and then iPhone sales went down because last year they had

00:27:02 ◼   ► new iPhone sales in the last half of September, and this year they didn't.

00:27:06 ◼   ► So, what they're really saying here is just you wait, and it was going great

00:27:12 ◼   ► until then, that until mid-September, iPhone sales were actually up from the

00:27:16 ◼   ► same time last year.

00:27:17 ◼   ► So, it's a bad number that's actually not nearly as bad when you look at it.

00:27:22 ◼   ► But let's also remember this for next September because if Apple releases a new

00:27:27 ◼   ► iPhone next September, it'll be a...

00:27:29 ◼   ► I don't know what's the opposite of a tough compare, a good compare,

00:27:32 ◼   ► a great compare because they'll be comparing this year where there was no iPhone

00:27:36 ◼   ► to next year when possibly there will be an iPhone and they'll get a big bump.

00:27:40 ◼   ► And I will bet you money that they won't apologize and say, "Well,

00:27:45 ◼   ► I know the iPhone looks like it did great, but it really didn't do as great as that

00:27:49 ◼   ► because of last year."

00:27:50 ◼   ► They never are going to call attention to the reverse of the tough compare,

00:27:53 ◼   ► but it is true.

00:27:55 ◼   ► It seems like the iPhone sales were doing pretty well until they...

00:27:59 ◼   ► I mean, they were doing pretty well, period, but the comparison to last year

00:28:03 ◼   ► fell apart once last year's iPhone was released.

00:28:06 ◼   ► - Mac, $9 billion up 29% to make an all-time record quarter.

00:28:15 ◼   ► In 36 years of the Mac being on sale, 144 quarters, this one in 2020 has been

00:28:24 ◼   ► the best one.

00:28:25 ◼   ► - Just to be clear, $9 billion in Mac sales is not just an all-time record,

00:28:30 ◼   ► but the previous all-time record for Mac sales was 7.4 billion.

00:28:37 ◼   ► They beat it by 1.6 billion.

00:28:40 ◼   ► So this is, I mean, as big a blowout quarter as you could possibly imagine

00:28:48 ◼   ► for the Mac, for this platform that is entirely on Intel for the last time.

00:28:57 ◼   ► And, yeah, big, big Mac quarter, the best.

00:29:02 ◼   ► It's kind of nice to see that as somebody who likes the Mac,

00:29:05 ◼   ► to see the Mac do this well after, you know, 36 years of life to still have its

00:29:11 ◼   ► best days ahead of it, perhaps.

00:29:13 ◼   ► - And Apple actually said that they were actually supply-constrained,

00:29:17 ◼   ► and Apple supply-constrained, right?

00:29:19 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:29:20 ◼   ► Yeah, they couldn't make enough Macs or iPads to sell this quarter.

00:29:27 ◼   ► - Talking about the iPad, $6.8 billion up 46% year over year.

00:29:34 ◼   ► I think it's the largest growth, right?

00:29:39 ◼   ► Large percentage year over year growth of any...

00:29:41 ◼   ► - And I feel like after our several years where we were wondering, you know,

00:29:47 ◼   ► we were seeing iPad sales go down and we were wondering sort of where's it going

00:29:50 ◼   ► to land and what's that business going to look like going forward,

00:29:54 ◼   ► it feels to me like we've got a pretty good idea now that the iPad is a $20

00:29:58 ◼   ► to $30 billion business for Apple, you know?

00:30:01 ◼   ► And it's going to be cyclical in some ways, right?

00:30:05 ◼   ► You're going to have new models that come in and drive sales,

00:30:08 ◼   ► and then it's going to calm down for a little while.

00:30:09 ◼   ► But if you look over the last, like, three-plus years, I think if you pick any

00:30:15 ◼   ► kind of four-quarter run, it's between $20 and $30 billion.

00:30:21 ◼   ► And so what I want to say is $25, that's the average.

00:30:25 ◼   ► I think it actually is more variable than that, but it's basically,

00:30:28 ◼   ► if you want to average it out, a $25 billion a year business,

00:30:33 ◼   ► and that's a pretty good business for the iPad, pretty good.

00:30:37 ◼   ► - Services, $14.5 billion up 16%, another all-time quarter.

00:30:43 ◼   ► I think they're going to be set in all-time quarters for a while.

00:30:46 ◼   ► - Services just goes up.

00:30:47 ◼   ► It's going to be news when they don't go up.

00:30:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, that will be like the iPhone news, right, when the iPhone turned its corner

00:30:52 ◼   ► and stopped not necessarily going down but stopped going up so much.

00:30:56 ◼   ► - You have that debate of, you know, where does the growth come from now

00:30:59 ◼   ► because it isn't coming from services.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Services is not just up every quarter year over year.

00:31:03 ◼   ► I believe services for years now has been up sequentially.

00:31:08 ◼   ► - Yes, which is a weird thing. - So every quarter is bigger than the last

00:31:11 ◼   ► because it's not a seasonal business like most of Apple's business

00:31:16 ◼   ► because you don't pay a big subscription fee at Christmas

00:31:21 ◼   ► and then not pay the rest of the year, right?

00:31:23 ◼   ► You just pay it every month, and so it just kind of continues to grow.

00:31:27 ◼   ► And they said there were a bunch of things related to this,

00:31:29 ◼   ► all-time number of subscriptions ever in Apple for various subscriptions,

00:31:33 ◼   ► and that includes all their services and all subscriptions in the App Store.

00:31:37 ◼   ► Like, all of those records also set because services just keeps going up for them.

00:31:44 ◼   ► - And wearables, $7.9 billion of revenue, up 20.8%.

00:31:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, so wearables is bigger than the iPad now,

00:31:53 ◼   ► and it is the fastest-growing segment.

00:31:56 ◼   ► I said this last quarter, but I'll say it again.

00:31:59 ◼   ► It is the fastest-growing segment in Apple's product segments.

00:32:02 ◼   ► It's, yes, I will grant you about half the size of services,

00:32:06 ◼   ► and that's why everybody's looking at services,

00:32:08 ◼   ► but if you look at the last couple of years of growth,

00:32:11 ◼   ► wearables is growing faster than services.

00:32:13 ◼   ► So where does the growth come from for Apple?

00:32:16 ◼   ► Services, it's coming from there, but wearables is on the way up,

00:32:20 ◼   ► and that is, you know, there's a bunch of stuff in there

00:32:24 ◼   ► because it's wearables, home, and accessories.

00:32:26 ◼   ► So, yeah, you know, iPhone cases are in there,

00:32:28 ◼   ► and the HomePod will be in there, but it's really,

00:32:30 ◼   ► primarily, as far as we can tell, driven by AirPods and by--

00:32:35 ◼   ► - Apple Watch. - Apple Watch, yeah.

00:32:37 ◼   ► - So, you know, like, this is the story

00:32:42 ◼   ► who had already written itself, right?

00:32:43 ◼   ► Oh, this quarter's gonna be a disaster 'cause iPhone,

00:32:47 ◼   ► but it's like, what iPhone?

00:32:49 ◼   ► Unbelievable that they have managed to swallow the loss

00:32:54 ◼   ► of the, you know, arguably some of them,

00:33:00 ◼   ► maybe their second most important,

00:33:01 ◼   ► like, few-week period of the year, right?

00:33:03 ◼   ► They'll have this one, and I'm sure that there is

00:33:05 ◼   ► a couple of weeks around Christmas,

00:33:07 ◼   ► which is, we don't know the dates, but Apple will know,

00:33:09 ◼   ► it's like, these are our two peaks, right,

00:33:11 ◼   ► you would assume, for iPhone sales.

00:33:14 ◼   ► And iPhone was 41% of the revenue for this quarter.

00:33:19 ◼   ► So, like, it's kind of incredible.

00:33:21 ◼   ► I mean, look, this wouldn't have happened

00:33:24 ◼   ► under regular circumstances.

00:33:26 ◼   ► Like, if for some reason the iPhone was three weeks late

00:33:30 ◼   ► last year, they would have just had an absolutely

00:33:33 ◼   ► horrific quarter.

00:33:35 ◼   ► But what's going on here is iPad and Mac sales are booming

00:33:38 ◼   ► for a bunch of reasons, right?

00:33:39 ◼   ► So you have good, compelling, and new hardware

00:33:42 ◼   ► in these categories.

00:33:44 ◼   ► You have schooling at home, working at home,

00:33:46 ◼   ► and one additional thought that I'd had, Jason,

00:33:49 ◼   ► is that Apple Silicon could be forcing some companies

00:33:52 ◼   ► to make larger buys now because they wanna make sure

00:33:55 ◼   ► they get Intel machines for a while.

00:33:57 ◼   ► - I was talking to somebody on one of the million podcasts

00:34:00 ◼   ► that I do.

00:34:01 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:34:02 ◼   ► I can't remember, honestly, if it was John Gruber

00:34:05 ◼   ► or if it was Dan Morin on Friday, but it was last Friday.

00:34:08 ◼   ► And the Osborne effect came up.

00:34:11 ◼   ► And what I said was, and the Osborne effect is the idea

00:34:14 ◼   ► that if you pre-announce anything,

00:34:16 ◼   ► sales stop on your current thing.

00:34:17 ◼   ► And I don't think Apple Silicon has an Osborne effect,

00:34:20 ◼   ► or at least if it does, I think it's split

00:34:22 ◼   ► between motivating some people to buy now

00:34:25 ◼   ► before a transition and other people to wait

00:34:28 ◼   ► because they're very excited.

00:34:29 ◼   ► In fact, I would wager that most buyers,

00:34:32 ◼   ► well, first off, most buyers don't know about Apple Silicon

00:34:34 ◼   ► and don't care.

00:34:35 ◼   ► And second, those institutional buyers,

00:34:37 ◼   ► if I'm buying laptops for my whole staff because of COVID,

00:34:41 ◼   ► first off, COVID is probably the prime mover there

00:34:43 ◼   ► if you're moving people out of the office.

00:34:46 ◼   ► But the secondary mover may be your IT guys,

00:34:48 ◼   ► like, you know, they're about to do a processor transition.

00:34:50 ◼   ► And do we really wanna have these new laptops

00:34:54 ◼   ► and we have no idea how they're gonna work?

00:34:56 ◼   ► Why don't we just buy them now?

00:34:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like if we wanna buy a MacBook Pro

00:34:59 ◼   ► in three months, is it going to work for us?

00:35:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, what's it gonna be?

00:35:06 ◼   ► Like there's more uncertainty there.

00:35:07 ◼   ► I do think this is, so if you wanna question

00:35:11 ◼   ► Apple's 2021 financials, the question to ask is,

00:35:16 ◼   ► how much iPad and Mac sales that have happened this year

00:35:21 ◼   ► are deferred purchases, are purchases that would have

00:35:24 ◼   ► otherwise been made in 2021 and have been moved forward

00:35:28 ◼   ► into 2020 because of COVID-19?

00:35:31 ◼   ► That laptop that you weren't gonna replace for a year or two

00:35:33 ◼   ► got replaced now because all of a sudden it's important

00:35:37 ◼   ► that you have a good laptop at home

00:35:38 ◼   ► 'cause you're working at home

00:35:39 ◼   ► or because your kid needs a laptop now

00:35:42 ◼   ► and that laptop that your kid used occasionally

00:35:45 ◼   ► is not good enough.

00:35:47 ◼   ► I think there's some of that and the question is how much?

00:35:50 ◼   ► I think though that the other question is,

00:35:54 ◼   ► has COVID-19 changed the world in a way

00:35:59 ◼   ► that creates more laptops and iPads in use

00:36:06 ◼   ► than they had before?

00:36:09 ◼   ► And the reason I say that is just,

00:36:11 ◼   ► I can also imagine that there are people who used to get by

00:36:15 ◼   ► with one computer at home that was shared,

00:36:19 ◼   ► that they now have to buy more because everybody's at home

00:36:21 ◼   ► or the kids used to use your computer

00:36:23 ◼   ► and you didn't need it much for work so it was fine,

00:36:26 ◼   ► but now you need it for work and they need one for school

00:36:29 ◼   ► and what are you gonna do?

00:36:30 ◼   ► And so you buy a computer for them

00:36:31 ◼   ► and it increases the total number.

00:36:34 ◼   ► Even there though, you're probably gonna be looking at

00:36:37 ◼   ► a reduction in sales.

00:36:40 ◼   ► I think it would not be unreasonable to say

00:36:42 ◼   ► that at some point next year,

00:36:44 ◼   ► iPad and Mac sales are gonna look bad year over year,

00:36:47 ◼   ► even if they're actually pretty good historically,

00:36:50 ◼   ► just because I do think that a lot got packed into this year

00:36:55 ◼   ► where people are like,

00:36:56 ◼   ► "Oh, geez, I really do need this laptop for my home

00:37:01 ◼   ► because of my kids or because of my work or whatever."

00:37:03 ◼   ► So we'll have to see about that,

00:37:05 ◼   ► but it's really great for Apple right now.

00:37:08 ◼   ► And what's also interesting is the analysts

00:37:10 ◼   ► on the phone call asked Apple if they thought

00:37:13 ◼   ► that those sales would go down in the holiday quarter

00:37:17 ◼   ► because of the phenomenon I just described.

00:37:20 ◼   ► And Apple said, "Nope, we think we're gonna grow

00:37:22 ◼   ► double digits in those categories next quarter too."

00:37:26 ◼   ► So if there is a fall coming where Apple,

00:37:31 ◼   ► we're all gonna point back to 2020 and say,

00:37:33 ◼   ► "Yeah, it's natural to come down off that high.

00:37:36 ◼   ► They couldn't keep selling that level forever."

00:37:38 ◼   ► That may happen, but it doesn't seem to be happening

00:37:40 ◼   ► in the holiday quarter.

00:37:41 ◼   ► - No, like Apple's seem and like from comments

00:37:44 ◼   ► that Tim Cook was making as well, right?

00:37:46 ◼   ► They seem to believe that this will not be a fluke

00:37:49 ◼   ► and that we're gonna stabilize

00:37:51 ◼   ► to a different normality afterwards.

00:37:54 ◼   ► I don't remember the exact words that he used,

00:37:56 ◼   ► but it was along the lines of like,

00:37:57 ◼   ► "We're not just gonna bounce back

00:37:59 ◼   ► into the regular working patterns that people had.

00:38:02 ◼   ► That's just not gonna be the way it is anymore.

00:38:04 ◼   ► There will be an element of working from home

00:38:07 ◼   ► or working from different locations

00:38:08 ◼   ► that we didn't have before

00:38:10 ◼   ► because people are gonna start to get used to that.

00:38:12 ◼   ► Companies will get used to the cost savings

00:38:14 ◼   ► that they can see."

00:38:16 ◼   ► We, you know, one of the longer lasting effects

00:38:20 ◼   ► from COVID-19 is going to be working patterns

00:38:24 ◼   ► for many people in office environments.

00:38:28 ◼   ► There's going to be significant

00:38:29 ◼   ► long-term ramifications from that.

00:38:31 ◼   ► - We can argue about how many and nobody really knows,

00:38:35 ◼   ► but I can't see the argument

00:38:37 ◼   ► that it's all just gonna go back to the way it was.

00:38:39 ◼   ► That's not gonna happen.

00:38:40 ◼   ► - It will not.

00:38:41 ◼   ► I mean, because there have been so many companies,

00:38:42 ◼   ► like especially in, I mean, especially in the tech space,

00:38:45 ◼   ► right, that have already said like,

00:38:46 ◼   ► "All right, we've changed our policy going forward

00:38:48 ◼   ► and now people can work from home if they want to,"

00:38:51 ◼   ► which was not a thing that they had before.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Even Apple, right, have been making comments

00:38:55 ◼   ► around the fact that this has worked better for them

00:38:57 ◼   ► than they thought it would.

00:38:59 ◼   ► - And here's my quick argument

00:39:00 ◼   ► because I know there's the argument,

00:39:02 ◼   ► and I've made it before,

00:39:03 ◼   ► which is there's some boss somewhere who's like,

00:39:04 ◼   ► "But I wanna see my people."

00:39:06 ◼   ► And I get that.

00:39:07 ◼   ► And that is definitely gonna be a thing

00:39:09 ◼   ► to pull people back into the office

00:39:11 ◼   ► and stories about the magics of collaboration

00:39:14 ◼   ► and serendipity, which I admit is a thing,

00:39:17 ◼   ► but also can be a thing online.

00:39:20 ◼   ► But what I wanted to say is never underestimate

00:39:23 ◼   ► the power of the CEO and the CFO

00:39:27 ◼   ► looking at the money they're spending on rent

00:39:29 ◼   ► and saying, "We don't need to spend money on rent anymore."

00:39:34 ◼   ► 'Cause rent, especially if you're in a big city somewhere,

00:39:39 ◼   ► rent is super expensive.

00:39:41 ◼   ► And I say that as somebody who worked south of market

00:39:43 ◼   ► in San Francisco, super expensive.

00:39:46 ◼   ► And if, I mean, I was making these arguments

00:39:49 ◼   ► 10 years ago at IDG,

00:39:50 ◼   ► but if they're looking at their office space

00:39:53 ◼   ► in downtown San Francisco and not saying,

00:39:56 ◼   ► "Why are we doing this again?"

00:39:57 ◼   ► And then I would be surprised.

00:40:00 ◼   ► And I think in a lot of cases, the CFO saying,

00:40:04 ◼   ► "No, we need to do remote work

00:40:05 ◼   ► because do you realize how much we're spending on rent?"

00:40:09 ◼   ► May trump the argument of the manager saying,

00:40:13 ◼   ► "But I wanna see my people

00:40:14 ◼   ► because serendipity at the coffee machine."

00:40:17 ◼   ► So we'll see, but I think the answer is gonna be

00:40:21 ◼   ► some change will happen.

00:40:22 ◼   ► We don't know whether it's 80% or 20%,

00:40:24 ◼   ► but somewhere in there.

00:40:26 ◼   ► So we'll see how that affects Apple's business,

00:40:28 ◼   ► but it does, I think, affect the profile

00:40:31 ◼   ► of what kind of products get sold.

00:40:32 ◼   ► - All right, this episode is brought to you

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00:42:32 ◼   ► It is time for the event draft.

00:42:36 ◼   ► (humming)

00:42:37 ◼   ► Surprise, it's a draft.

00:42:39 ◼   ► So we'll start with the rules.

00:42:41 ◼   ► We're gonna do eight rounds, 16 overall picks,

00:42:44 ◼   ► five rounds on Mac picks, three rounds on non-Mac picks.

00:42:48 ◼   ► The winner of the previous draft gets first pick,

00:42:51 ◼   ► surprise, surprise, as Jason Snell.

00:42:53 ◼   ► For an item to count, it must be either clearly announced

00:42:55 ◼   ► on stage or on a slide during the presentation.

00:42:59 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in case

00:43:01 ◼   ► of a scoring stalemate between the two of us,

00:43:03 ◼   ► but we will score ourselves.

00:43:05 ◼   ► No half points are awarded, no points for pre-announced

00:43:09 ◼   ► or incredibly obvious items.

00:43:11 ◼   ► The points awarded on the episode of final,

00:43:15 ◼   ► and there will be a tie breaker question as well.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I believe we're probably gonna redo

00:43:20 ◼   ► our tie breaker question from last time,

00:43:22 ◼   ► but we'll get to that in a moment.

00:43:25 ◼   ► 2020 results so far have been WWDC September and October,

00:43:30 ◼   ► all taken home by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:43:33 ◼   ► So in this November event, your boy here is fighting

00:43:38 ◼   ► for some honor to try and not have this be

00:43:42 ◼   ► an absolute whitewash for the year.

00:43:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, it's good.

00:43:46 ◼   ► - Is it good?

00:43:48 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:43:49 ◼   ► - I mean, it's great.

00:43:50 ◼   ► It's great. - It's great for you.

00:43:51 ◼   ► It's great if you're the winner.

00:43:51 ◼   ► - I like that you, I appreciate one,

00:43:54 ◼   ► that you get a chance to reclaim some honor,

00:43:56 ◼   ► and two, that if you do, it will leave me

00:44:00 ◼   ► as still being the winner.

00:44:01 ◼   ► - I'm sure you also appreciate the opportunity

00:44:03 ◼   ► to take four for four.

00:44:04 ◼   ► - You know, that would be great,

00:44:07 ◼   ► but honestly, I am also concerned.

00:44:09 ◼   ► I'm not gonna throw it or anything.

00:44:10 ◼   ► I'm gonna compete here, but if you get it,

00:44:11 ◼   ► I'm gonna be happy for you because this isn't the rookies.

00:44:14 ◼   ► We're gentlemen over here.

00:44:15 ◼   ► - There has never been a November event

00:44:18 ◼   ► in the history of the draft.

00:44:20 ◼   ► So I cannot go on previous results.

00:44:22 ◼   ► This is a first.

00:44:23 ◼   ► - Uncharted territory.

00:44:24 ◼   ► The winner of this event has the title

00:44:27 ◼   ► of the only winner of a November event.

00:44:29 ◼   ► - The November draft champion.

00:44:31 ◼   ► - Chairman?

00:44:32 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:44:34 ◼   ► - Tiebreaker question.

00:44:36 ◼   ► We're gonna do an over under.

00:44:39 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:44:40 ◼   ► - And I think that we decided that you would pick the,

00:44:45 ◼   ► we're gonna do the duration of the event,

00:44:47 ◼   ► that you would pick the number, and then I get over under.

00:44:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:44:51 ◼   ► 60 minutes, Myke.

00:44:53 ◼   ► - Gosh darn you, Jason Snow.

00:44:57 ◼   ► You picked the absolute worst.

00:45:00 ◼   ► - That's my job.

00:45:02 ◼   ► - I'm gonna say over 60 minutes.

00:45:04 ◼   ► - Okay, all right.

00:45:05 ◼   ► All right.

00:45:08 ◼   ► - I'm looking for like 61 minutes here.

00:45:10 ◼   ► - It might be, it might be just exactly like that.

00:45:13 ◼   ► - That's kind of what I'm going for.

00:45:14 ◼   ► - Over 60 minutes, so if it is more than 60, zero, zero,

00:45:19 ◼   ► Myke gets it.

00:45:21 ◼   ► - I'm actually gonna go out on a limb here.

00:45:23 ◼   ► This is not a prediction.

00:45:24 ◼   ► So I actually think this will be the longest of the three,

00:45:28 ◼   ► because I imagine many more demos

00:45:30 ◼   ► are much more technical information

00:45:34 ◼   ► than we have seen in any of the other events.

00:45:37 ◼   ► And more software demos and stuff like that.

00:45:41 ◼   ► And even going over Big Sur again, I can imagine doing so.

00:45:46 ◼   ► That's kind of what I'm thinking.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - But just to be clear, 60 minutes and zero seconds.

00:45:50 ◼   ► So if it's, when I say it's more than 60 minutes,

00:45:52 ◼   ► if it's 60 minutes and 10 seconds,

00:45:54 ◼   ► you get it.

00:45:55 ◼   ► - Yep, yep.

00:45:55 ◼   ► It's the 60 minute mark, right?

00:45:57 ◼   ► Like that's where it's at.

00:45:59 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:46:00 ◼   ► - All right.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - I don't wanna win this one with 60 minutes and 32 seconds,

00:46:04 ◼   ► 'cause that was not the intent.

00:46:05 ◼   ► That's more than an hour.

00:46:07 ◼   ► You get it.

00:46:07 ◼   ► - Okay, should we start?

00:46:11 ◼   ► - I guess we're gonna do so, yeah.

00:46:14 ◼   ► So five Mac, three non Mac, that's what we decided.

00:46:18 ◼   ► - That's what we decided.

00:46:19 ◼   ► And you get first.

00:46:20 ◼   ► - And I get first pick.

00:46:21 ◼   ► Oh boy, we're just making this up as we go along.

00:46:23 ◼   ► - Just for some clarity, just a little behind the scenes.

00:46:27 ◼   ► We have had a document that we have made reference to

00:46:30 ◼   ► over the last couple of months of like this big document

00:46:35 ◼   ► that we create, which is full of draft picks

00:46:37 ◼   ► that we put in and then we pick from those.

00:46:40 ◼   ► And the thing that's been interesting this year

00:46:42 ◼   ► is we created a document three months ago

00:46:44 ◼   ► and have been reusing sections of it

00:46:47 ◼   ► because we have had some version of these Mac picks

00:46:51 ◼   ► since September in this document, right?

00:46:54 ◼   ► Because we've been waiting for this to occur.

00:46:56 ◼   ► So we were about to start the show today

00:47:00 ◼   ► and the Apple event, we start at 9 a.m. Pacific,

00:47:03 ◼   ► the Apple event invite came out at 901,

00:47:06 ◼   ► so we had enough time to go in.

00:47:07 ◼   ► So we basically spent half an hour

00:47:10 ◼   ► putting and flushing out these picks

00:47:13 ◼   ► and to get to where we are right now.

00:47:17 ◼   ► So this is the least preparation we've had for a draft ever

00:47:21 ◼   ► and we'll see what that will end up doing.

00:47:24 ◼   ► - So with my first pick, I'm gonna go,

00:47:26 ◼   ► 'cause it's the first pick with one that's a pretty easy one

00:47:28 ◼   ► although again, there's a chance that it's wrong,

00:47:31 ◼   ► which is first Apple Silicon Mac is a laptop.

00:47:35 ◼   ► - This was my first pick too.

00:47:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's why I had to do it.

00:47:39 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:47:40 ◼   ► - Had to do it, yeah.

00:47:41 ◼   ► I think there are rumors about a Apple Silicon iMac

00:47:44 ◼   ► and I think that makes sense,

00:47:46 ◼   ► especially since the small iMac

00:47:49 ◼   ► is in desperate need of an update,

00:47:50 ◼   ► the idea that Apple is gonna refashion the iMac

00:47:53 ◼   ► and we're gonna get a new iMac design

00:47:55 ◼   ► and it's gonna happen with Apple Silicon.

00:47:56 ◼   ► It's gonna be a different size,

00:47:58 ◼   ► like a 24-inch iMac or something like that.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Great, love it.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Rumor suggests that's a 2021 thing.

00:48:04 ◼   ► I think it's possible, but it's more likely to me

00:48:07 ◼   ► that this is gonna be a laptop of some sort.

00:48:09 ◼   ► It feels to me like that is, for a first release,

00:48:13 ◼   ► Apple's work with Apple Silicon up to now on the iPad

00:48:17 ◼   ► suggests that making something

00:48:18 ◼   ► that will work in a laptop design

00:48:21 ◼   ► should be well within reach for them.

00:48:24 ◼   ► So that's my guess.

00:48:26 ◼   ► And people who say that the developer kit

00:48:29 ◼   ► was the first Apple Silicon Mac, it doesn't count.

00:48:31 ◼   ► - Nah, it doesn't count.

00:48:32 ◼   ► - But that's what I mean here.

00:48:34 ◼   ► It also means, I suppose, that if they announce two,

00:48:38 ◼   ► if the first one is not a laptop, I don't get it,

00:48:40 ◼   ► but if they announce two and the first one is a laptop,

00:48:42 ◼   ► I do, I don't know.

00:48:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, if they have an iMac and a laptop

00:48:45 ◼   ► and they show the iMac first.

00:48:47 ◼   ► But I think it's pretty clear,

00:48:50 ◼   ► I mean, it seems like a foregone conclusion,

00:48:52 ◼   ► that there will be an Apple Silicon laptop.

00:48:56 ◼   ► What that's gonna be, we'll find out.

00:48:58 ◼   ► But it's very clear that that's going to be

00:49:01 ◼   ► in the first selection, because it makes so much sense.

00:49:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, it feels like it to me.

00:49:07 ◼   ► - My first pick is that Apple Silicon Macs

00:49:09 ◼   ► are significantly faster than what they replace.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Now, significantly, we may have to have

00:49:19 ◼   ► some discussion around that,

00:49:21 ◼   ► but I think we can come to a decision on that pretty easily.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Especially because, look, as we know,

00:49:28 ◼   ► all Apple have to do is put the current A14

00:49:31 ◼   ► in a MacBook and it's going to blow it away.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Especially, I mean, if they do create a MacBook,

00:49:39 ◼   ► I mean, no matter what they put in there,

00:49:42 ◼   ► it will be faster than what it is replacing,

00:49:44 ◼   ► which is the now dead 12-inch MacBook.

00:49:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, but even if they, the way I'm reading this is,

00:49:50 ◼   ► they're gonna make some speed claims

00:49:51 ◼   ► and they're not gonna be minor.

00:49:53 ◼   ► And since this isn't the Ricky's,

00:49:56 ◼   ► we're just gonna leave it at this

00:49:58 ◼   ► and we'll agree what's significant next time.

00:50:00 ◼   ► Because I think we'll know, and honestly,

00:50:04 ◼   ► I don't see how Apple would not do this.

00:50:06 ◼   ► They're not gonna make claims that aren't significant.

00:50:08 ◼   ► They're gonna say, this is 20% faster than something.

00:50:11 ◼   ► - They're not gonna be like, oh, this thing,

00:50:13 ◼   ► it does about as much as the last one.

00:50:15 ◼   ► - If they make no speed claims at all, you don't get it.

00:50:18 ◼   ► But I think they will make speed claims.

00:50:19 ◼   ► And that's why I think it's a good first pick.

00:50:21 ◼   ► - If they don't make speed claims,

00:50:23 ◼   ► I think that they maybe need to reassess what they're doing.

00:50:27 ◼   ► - Cancel the event, cancel, cancel, yeah, exactly.

00:50:30 ◼   ► - I'm not sure that that would be the right move.

00:50:31 ◼   ► I mean, because look, this is the coming out party, right?

00:50:35 ◼   ► For what they can do here.

00:50:37 ◼   ► They need to make sure that they're picking

00:50:40 ◼   ► whatever it is they're picking

00:50:41 ◼   ► to ensure that they can say, don't worry,

00:50:44 ◼   ► this stuff is so much faster.

00:50:46 ◼   ► It's so fast that when you run it in emulation,

00:50:49 ◼   ► it doesn't even feel any different.

00:50:51 ◼   ► Like we're good to go here.

00:50:54 ◼   ► - Yep, makes sense.

00:50:56 ◼   ► - Which is I can pick.

00:50:57 ◼   ► - Oh boy.

00:51:00 ◼   ► I am going to say

00:51:08 ◼   ► Apple Silicon Mac has the same design

00:51:12 ◼   ► as the Mac it replaces.

00:51:13 ◼   ► Now, let me explain what I mean by this.

00:51:16 ◼   ► I don't think what we're going to see

00:51:19 ◼   ► is a new Mac with a new design.

00:51:22 ◼   ► And the MacBook is the one that we keep talking about

00:51:24 ◼   ► because there's the old MacBook and the new MacBook.

00:51:27 ◼   ► What I really mean here is

00:51:29 ◼   ► I think this is going to be a reassuring product

00:51:34 ◼   ► that looks like an Intel Mac, but isn't.

00:51:37 ◼   ► And not a we've totally rethought what a laptop could be.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - Even if they announced a MacBook Pro

00:51:45 ◼   ► and it was a 14 inch MacBook Pro,

00:51:47 ◼   ► you would still get it as long.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Basically what we're looking for here is

00:51:51 ◼   ► that the first Apple Silicon Macs

00:51:53 ◼   ► have the same design language.

00:51:55 ◼   ► - No big design deviation, right?

00:51:57 ◼   ► That's like a 24 inch iMac with a new look.

00:52:01 ◼   ► I think we're going to know it when we see it here, right?

00:52:03 ◼   ► Like either it's going to look like any other Mac

00:52:06 ◼   ► and you would never know that it had Apple Silicon in it

00:52:09 ◼   ► or Apple has said,

00:52:10 ◼   ► "Nope, the Apple Silicon Macs are totally different."

00:52:13 ◼   ► And I'm picking the first one for this first round

00:52:16 ◼   ► that there'll be a little more reassuring.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Again, maybe not.

00:52:19 ◼   ► These are not guaranteed,

00:52:22 ◼   ► but I think that that's more likely right now.

00:52:25 ◼   ► - As much as I want big, bold, and new design changes,

00:52:28 ◼   ► I'm not confident we're going to get those right now.

00:52:32 ◼   ► So like I'm following along with you here,

00:52:35 ◼   ► which is why for my second pick,

00:52:37 ◼   ► I am going with Apple Silicon Macs

00:52:40 ◼   ► has significantly more battery life.

00:52:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:52:43 ◼   ► - Because this is one of the reasons

00:52:44 ◼   ► to keep them looking similar

00:52:47 ◼   ► and not making something that deviates

00:52:49 ◼   ► because then you can have these things look similar,

00:52:53 ◼   ► but have different internals.

00:52:55 ◼   ► When they have different internals,

00:52:56 ◼   ► you could maybe make the battery bigger

00:52:58 ◼   ► or keep the battery the same

00:52:59 ◼   ► and now it's much more energy efficient.

00:53:03 ◼   ► But we've even heard about it on this very show

00:53:06 ◼   ► that Apple Silicon is about energy efficiency, right?

00:53:08 ◼   ► That's one of the things that it's good at

00:53:10 ◼   ► and one of the things that it's best at, right?

00:53:12 ◼   ► We've had Apple tell us that on this show.

00:53:15 ◼   ► And so I think that that is going to translate

00:53:18 ◼   ► into the laptops having much, much better battery life

00:53:22 ◼   ► than what they currently have.

00:53:23 ◼   ► - I think it's completely logical.

00:53:26 ◼   ► I guess my only question would be, what if Apple...

00:53:29 ◼   ► We don't know how Mac OS runs on these and we don't...

00:53:34 ◼   ► Like I would expect it to, I think it's a good choice.

00:53:39 ◼   ► The reason that I don't think it's a gimme

00:53:41 ◼   ► is because it's Apple and battery life.

00:53:44 ◼   ► Apple makes claims, they make all sorts of different claims.

00:53:48 ◼   ► It's possible that they focused on performance

00:53:50 ◼   ► and not battery life.

00:53:51 ◼   ► It's also possible that they focused on both

00:53:55 ◼   ► or that they focused on battery life over performance.

00:53:57 ◼   ► We don't know.

00:53:58 ◼   ► But I have a hard time seeing them go to ARM laptops

00:54:02 ◼   ► and not pump up the battery life claim.

00:54:07 ◼   ► I have a hard time seeing it. - This is right there.

00:54:07 ◼   ► - So I think it's a good pick.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Yeah, it is, yeah.

00:54:10 ◼   ► - All right, round three.

00:54:13 ◼   ► - Oh boy, oh boy.

00:54:15 ◼   ► I'm gonna go with a visit to the chip design lab.

00:54:21 ◼   ► - Okay, seems like a good one.

00:54:22 ◼   ► - This was in our Mac list,

00:54:23 ◼   ► even though it's a little bit of a stagecraft thing.

00:54:26 ◼   ► I think we're gonna go back into the chip design lab place

00:54:29 ◼   ► that we've seen before and hear some talk about

00:54:33 ◼   ► Apple Silicon and specifically what they're doing

00:54:35 ◼   ► with these systems and how it's building on the legend

00:54:38 ◼   ► of Apple Silicon or whatever.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I do think that we're gonna go back down there.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Just seems like a natural to me.

00:54:45 ◼   ► We've been down there a couple of times already.

00:54:47 ◼   ► So I feel like we'll go back.

00:54:50 ◼   ► But again, no guarantees of that, right?

00:54:52 ◼   ► They did that at WWDC.

00:54:54 ◼   ► I would like to believe that they're gonna do a deep dive

00:54:58 ◼   ► about Apple Silicon, but who knows?

00:55:01 ◼   ► And they could do it like outside on the rainbow stage

00:55:03 ◼   ► or something and then I don't get it.

00:55:05 ◼   ► - It seems like they're gonna go to the lab though.

00:55:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would think so.

00:55:08 ◼   ► - iOS app on a Mac demo.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Is my third pick.

00:55:17 ◼   ► I think we're gonna see a lot of this.

00:55:18 ◼   ► I think this will be,

00:55:19 ◼   ► personally I think this would be a more extended demo

00:55:23 ◼   ► of showing iOS apps, a bunch of them,

00:55:26 ◼   ► iOS apps running in conjunction with Mac apps.

00:55:29 ◼   ► You got multiple windows.

00:55:30 ◼   ► I think this is going to be a probably

00:55:34 ◼   ► Craig Federighi led decent demo.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Something maybe more akin to what you would see

00:55:40 ◼   ► at like a WWDC or a more typical event, right?

00:55:44 ◼   ► Where someone would go and do the demo

00:55:46 ◼   ► on the side of the stage type thing.

00:55:48 ◼   ► I think that this is something that deserves it.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And if they really want to sell everybody on,

00:55:54 ◼   ► they should really show this running, running well.

00:55:56 ◼   ► I expect we'll see some third parties here

00:55:58 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:55:59 ◼   ► But in the same way, this isn't it,

00:56:01 ◼   ► but I bet they're gonna have someone,

00:56:04 ◼   ► they'll do a demo, they'll go to the app store, right?

00:56:07 ◼   ► They'll download, like, oh, look,

00:56:09 ◼   ► all of our apps are all in one place.

00:56:11 ◼   ► You just download them so quickly.

00:56:12 ◼   ► And then they're, I think they're gonna do

00:56:15 ◼   ► the whole nine yards when it comes to this

00:56:18 ◼   ► because this is monumental.

00:56:22 ◼   ► This is so incredibly important.

00:56:26 ◼   ► Like for me personally, like this is one of,

00:56:30 ◼   ► if not the most important thing that they would show off

00:56:32 ◼   ► at an event like this, because it completely changes

00:56:36 ◼   ► what a Mac is capable of, right?

00:56:39 ◼   ► It can do anything at that point.

00:56:41 ◼   ► I'm very excited about this feature, Jason.

00:56:45 ◼   ► Like really I am.

00:56:46 ◼   ► And I think they're gonna give it a lot of time.

00:56:48 ◼   ► - Sounds good.

00:56:49 ◼   ► I think so too.

00:56:50 ◼   ► This is one of our late ads that we did before the show

00:56:53 ◼   ► when I was trying to think of things

00:56:54 ◼   ► that would be in the presentation.

00:56:55 ◼   ► And I liked this one.

00:56:56 ◼   ► I think that if you're gonna have iOS apps

00:56:59 ◼   ► running on Apple Silicon Macs, you need to show that.

00:57:01 ◼   ► Be the first one to show that and how it works.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And I think that's a natural, great pick.

00:57:07 ◼   ► All right, I am going, oh.

00:57:13 ◼   ► Round four, to pick, I wanna do one

00:57:18 ◼   ► about the processor branding.

00:57:21 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:57:22 ◼   ► - But I don't know what the processor branding

00:57:25 ◼   ► is going to be.

00:57:26 ◼   ► - There's been some rumors and stuff about some namings.

00:57:30 ◼   ► So like, I'll just lay these out there

00:57:32 ◼   ► in case people don't know.

00:57:33 ◼   ► There was a China Times report

00:57:35 ◼   ► citing supply chain sources about the chips being based

00:57:41 ◼   ► on the A14 and that there would be three overall variants

00:57:45 ◼   ► of the A14, two of them would power the Macs.

00:57:48 ◼   ► The A14X would include the iPad Pro and a laptop,

00:57:52 ◼   ► most likely the MacBook, and an A14T for an iMac

00:57:57 ◼   ► with reports that this would also get an Apple-made GPU

00:58:01 ◼   ► but may not be available until the first half of 2021.

00:58:05 ◼   ► I'm saying all of this, but it may or may not affect

00:58:07 ◼   ► the draft right now.

00:58:08 ◼   ► But yeah, so, but you know, the thing that is interesting

00:58:11 ◼   ► for me from here is if they make a MacBook Pro,

00:58:14 ◼   ► what chip does that get?

00:58:17 ◼   ► Does that also get the T chip?

00:58:19 ◼   ► But it just doesn't have the discrete GPU, I don't know.

00:58:24 ◼   ► But yeah, that's what I wanted to just get that out there

00:58:26 ◼   ► in case people aren't familiar with that report.

00:58:29 ◼   ► - And I think my struggle with this is what I want

00:58:34 ◼   ► to have happen versus what I think will happen.

00:58:39 ◼   ► And what I think will happen,

00:58:40 ◼   ► and this goes into some of my other picks too,

00:58:42 ◼   ► is I think Apple is going to set a lower bar for itself

00:58:45 ◼   ► this time out and release a laptop that's using the A14X,

00:58:50 ◼   ► which will also be used in an iPad Pro.

00:58:55 ◼   ► So I'm going to pick that.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Not high confidence here, I just like it better

00:58:59 ◼   ► than my other options, which is that Apple's going to throw

00:59:01 ◼   ► away the A14 branding or that it's going to be like

00:59:04 ◼   ► an A14T or something like that.

00:59:06 ◼   ► So I'm going to say A14X in that it's a concept

00:59:09 ◼   ► that we're comfortable with and that it will probably also

00:59:12 ◼   ► be in the iPad Pro, whether that's introduced next week

00:59:15 ◼   ► or in the spring, that that's a, for those who don't know,

00:59:18 ◼   ► the A14X is the iPad chip.

00:59:21 ◼   ► It has traditionally had eight cores,

00:59:23 ◼   ► four cores that are performance cores

00:59:26 ◼   ► and four that are efficiency cores.

00:59:28 ◼   ► That's more cores than are in the iPad Air

00:59:31 ◼   ► and the iPhone versions, the A14.

00:59:35 ◼   ► So more cores means more power.

00:59:38 ◼   ► And Apple with the A12X boasted about how the iPad Pro

00:59:42 ◼   ► in 2018 was already faster than almost every Windows laptop.

00:59:46 ◼   ► So an A14X in a Mac laptop would be faster

00:59:50 ◼   ► than almost every laptop that's out there,

00:59:52 ◼   ► including most of Apple's.

00:59:54 ◼   ► And that's probably good enough.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And then they use, then they save some space to unveil

01:00:00 ◼   ► an even more powerful Apple Silicon chip next year sometime.

01:00:04 ◼   ► So not super confident, but confident enough to pick it

01:00:08 ◼   ► over the other options.

01:00:09 ◼   ► And I did want to pick a branding choice here.

01:00:12 ◼   ► - I think one of the things that will be important

01:00:14 ◼   ► to remember and like, just to think about going forward

01:00:18 ◼   ► is to not refer to the X chip as the iPad chip

01:00:21 ◼   ► that the Mac is also getting,

01:00:23 ◼   ► 'cause that's obviously not what Apple will be doing.

01:00:25 ◼   ► It is the chip that the iPad Pro

01:00:28 ◼   ► and an Apple Silicon Mac will get.

01:00:30 ◼   ► It's not like they design it for the iPad Pro

01:00:33 ◼   ► and then move it over.

01:00:34 ◼   ► It's just like, no, this is a really powerful chip.

01:00:36 ◼   ► And we put it in a couple of different machines.

01:00:38 ◼   ► - It's the legacy and the X basically means,

01:00:41 ◼   ► more cores and then there may be other means.

01:00:44 ◼   ► I think it's entirely possible that Apple is going to unveil

01:00:47 ◼   ► new branding for the A series and,

01:00:50 ◼   ► or the A series on the Mac and call it something other

01:00:53 ◼   ► than Apple Silicon.

01:00:54 ◼   ► But at least I would like that.

01:00:57 ◼   ► I think that would be fun to have some new brand name.

01:01:01 ◼   ► - I think Apple Silicon is a thing that's going to remain

01:01:03 ◼   ► just because they have started calling all of their chips

01:01:06 ◼   ► Apple Silicon now.

01:01:07 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:01:08 ◼   ► I feel like it feels a little bit more like this is.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Yeah, like this is what they've decided and they like it

01:01:13 ◼   ► and it's got their name in it and they made it.

01:01:15 ◼   ► So why wouldn't they do that?

01:01:17 ◼   ► It's Apple through and through.

01:01:18 ◼   ► So yeah, anyway, what do you have?

01:01:21 ◼   ► - All right, I'm gonna make our first pick

01:01:23 ◼   ► for what we actually think one of these Macs is gonna be.

01:01:26 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:27 ◼   ► - Return of the MacBook.

01:01:29 ◼   ► - Return of the MacBook.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Now, so you mean,

01:01:35 ◼   ► a non pro. - It's gonna be named MacBook.

01:01:37 ◼   ► - This is where I struggle.

01:01:41 ◼   ► This is where I struggle, right?

01:01:43 ◼   ► And I don't know if you've been,

01:01:44 ◼   ► I'm sure you've been thinking about this too.

01:01:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:47 ◼   ► - But like this is that classic,

01:01:49 ◼   ► like conundrum we get ourselves into on this show

01:01:51 ◼   ► where we say, surely now if you're ever gonna rebrand

01:01:55 ◼   ► these things would be the time to do it.

01:01:57 ◼   ► And the reason that made me think of this was I was listening

01:02:00 ◼   ► to a really excellent recent episode of Mac Power Users

01:02:03 ◼   ► where they, I think the episode was called

01:02:06 ◼   ► grading the Intel era, where David and Steven

01:02:10 ◼   ► were looking back at how Intel, the whole Intel era went,

01:02:14 ◼   ► culminating with the transition.

01:02:16 ◼   ► And that was when they changed the names, right?

01:02:19 ◼   ► Or am I thinking back further?

01:02:22 ◼   ► - Nope.

01:02:23 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:02:24 ◼   ► - It was Intel transition.

01:02:26 ◼   ► - They were Power Books, weren't they?

01:02:26 ◼   ► - And everything went from Power Book to MacBook

01:02:28 ◼   ► and Power Mac to Mac Pro.

01:02:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, so everything changed then.

01:02:33 ◼   ► And so history could dictate that now would be the time.

01:02:38 ◼   ► And I could imagine Apple Book,

01:02:41 ◼   ► but I'm not convinced of that.

01:02:43 ◼   ► - Well, I think you've got two ways to go with this pick.

01:02:46 ◼   ► You can either hinge it on the MacBook

01:02:48 ◼   ► and that that name is coming back,

01:02:50 ◼   ► or you can take the name out of your pick

01:02:52 ◼   ► and make it about a light laptop

01:02:56 ◼   ► that's smaller than the MacBook Air.

01:03:00 ◼   ► - Return of a MacBook style computer.

01:03:03 ◼   ► - Style, return of a MacBook style laptop.

01:03:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I'm going for.

01:03:08 ◼   ► - We know what that means.

01:03:09 ◼   ► That means that if it's a MacBook Air, you don't get it.

01:03:11 ◼   ► If it's just a MacBook Air, you don't get it.

01:03:13 ◼   ► - And I don't think that that is it, right?

01:03:15 ◼   ► I think that Apple know,

01:03:17 ◼   ► look, they tried messing around with the MacBook Air before

01:03:20 ◼   ► and it bit them badly.

01:03:21 ◼   ► Leave that computer.

01:03:23 ◼   ► - I would like to believe that,

01:03:26 ◼   ► and it's put up the X-Files, I wanna believe.

01:03:29 ◼   ► I would like to believe that all of our wondering

01:03:33 ◼   ► in the last five years about the MacBook

01:03:36 ◼   ► turns out to be absolutely true,

01:03:38 ◼   ► that the MacBook was always gonna be the vehicle

01:03:41 ◼   ► in which Apple brought an ARM chip to the Mac,

01:03:44 ◼   ► 'cause it always looked like it.

01:03:45 ◼   ► It always looked like it shouldn't have

01:03:47 ◼   ► an Intel processor in it.

01:03:48 ◼   ► It should have an ARM processor in it.

01:03:51 ◼   ► And I would love for that story of a product

01:03:54 ◼   ► that I always really liked, but was always disappointing.

01:03:58 ◼   ► I would love for it to come back around

01:04:00 ◼   ► and suddenly make sense with a new 12-inch MacBook

01:04:04 ◼   ► that is powered by Apple Silicon

01:04:06 ◼   ► and is faster than any existing.

01:04:08 ◼   ► Imagine a MacBook that's faster than all

01:04:11 ◼   ► currently shipping MacBook Pros.

01:04:13 ◼   ► How about that?

01:04:14 ◼   ► Wouldn't that be something? - Oh my God,

01:04:15 ◼   ► can you imagine?

01:04:16 ◼   ► - That would be the biggest troll move.

01:04:18 ◼   ► Remember that computer you didn't like?

01:04:20 ◼   ► Well, now it's the best one.

01:04:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:04:24 ◼   ► - Oh my God, Jason, that would be so much fun.

01:04:28 ◼   ► I would love that.

01:04:29 ◼   ► I would really, really love that.

01:04:31 ◼   ► Seems possible.

01:04:32 ◼   ► - Seems possible.

01:04:34 ◼   ► - Seems possible.

01:04:35 ◼   ► Oh man, that you've just put a really fun idea

01:04:37 ◼   ► in my head now.

01:04:38 ◼   ► I like that.

01:04:38 ◼   ► I like the thought of that very, very much.

01:04:40 ◼   ► All right, this is your final pick in the Mac round.

01:04:45 ◼   ► - In the Mac round.

01:04:46 ◼   ► I, oh boy, there are some choices here.

01:04:49 ◼   ► None of them I love.

01:04:51 ◼   ► I am, oh boy.

01:04:58 ◼   ► - Let's say Big Sur release date named.

01:05:03 ◼   ► - I had this.

01:05:08 ◼   ► I had this.

01:05:09 ◼   ► - Right, that they'll say, you know,

01:05:13 ◼   ► and they'll have Mac OS Big Sur, which is great.

01:05:15 ◼   ► And it's shipping on November 27th or November 20th

01:05:20 ◼   ► or whenever they say, November 25th.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Happy Thanksgiving, November 26th.

01:05:25 ◼   ► You get a turkey and Big Sur.

01:05:28 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:29 ◼   ► I don't know what the answer is,

01:05:30 ◼   ► but I feel like this is the time to say,

01:05:32 ◼   ► Big Sur's coming out.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:35 ◼   ► - All right.

01:05:38 ◼   ► I think that's gonna happen.

01:05:40 ◼   ► 'Cause like where is that operating system?

01:05:42 ◼   ► 11.0.1 is now in beta, right?

01:05:44 ◼   ► Like this operating system has been,

01:05:47 ◼   ► has spent a very long time.

01:05:48 ◼   ► - It's on the MacBook.

01:05:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, it needs to come out now.

01:05:53 ◼   ► I've seen a lot of developers talking about this,

01:05:55 ◼   ► which is really interesting.

01:05:56 ◼   ► And I believe that you and John Gruber

01:05:58 ◼   ► were talking about this too,

01:05:59 ◼   ► that like these types of gaps between iOS and Mac OS

01:06:03 ◼   ► might not be possible anymore

01:06:06 ◼   ► if iOS apps will run on the Mac.

01:06:09 ◼   ► They may have to release them at the same time

01:06:11 ◼   ► or much closer.

01:06:12 ◼   ► - Or they may be mandatory in some ways

01:06:15 ◼   ► for the initial release,

01:06:16 ◼   ► 'cause you might wanna batten down the hatches

01:06:17 ◼   ► on iOS first.

01:06:18 ◼   ► And then my point,

01:06:20 ◼   ► and I was just thinking about it the other day

01:06:23 ◼   ► and then I talked to John about it,

01:06:24 ◼   ► is once Mac OS can run iOS apps,

01:06:28 ◼   ► Mac OS development is directly tied to iOS development

01:06:31 ◼   ► in a way it never was before.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Because you're running apps

01:06:34 ◼   ► that are requiring a specific version of iOS on Mac OS.

01:06:38 ◼   ► And that means that even more than before,

01:06:41 ◼   ► they need to run in tandem.

01:06:43 ◼   ► That doesn't necessarily mean Mac OS and iOS

01:06:45 ◼   ► get released at the same time,

01:06:48 ◼   ► but it does probably mean that Mac OS

01:06:52 ◼   ► has to move in lockstep with iOS

01:06:54 ◼   ► and would want to, right?

01:06:56 ◼   ► If there are iOS bugs that need to be fixed,

01:06:59 ◼   ► those are bugs that need to be fixed

01:07:00 ◼   ► in essentially the version of iOS

01:07:02 ◼   ► that's inside of Mac OS that runs those apps.

01:07:05 ◼   ► So I would think that we're gonna have

01:07:06 ◼   ► a lot of weird compatibility conversations about that,

01:07:10 ◼   ► but it's just something to keep in mind

01:07:11 ◼   ► that they are sharing an app platform

01:07:16 ◼   ► as of Apple Silicon.

01:07:17 ◼   ► They are running apps.

01:07:19 ◼   ► Mac OS, Big Sur on Apple Silicon, and iOS

01:07:23 ◼   ► are running the same apps.

01:07:25 ◼   ► So they're sharing that platform,

01:07:27 ◼   ► and that has ramifications for OS releases.

01:07:30 ◼   ► I think though, it also may mean

01:07:32 ◼   ► you see what we've been seeing all along,

01:07:34 ◼   ► which is you put it out for the phone and the iPad.

01:07:38 ◼   ► And then you also are working on Mac OS

01:07:41 ◼   ► and you make sure that Mac OS

01:07:42 ◼   ► gets the compatibility updates,

01:07:45 ◼   ► but you could leave that a little bit.

01:07:47 ◼   ► And then Mac OS people just be sad.

01:07:49 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, I wanna use that new version of that app."

01:07:51 ◼   ► It's like, "Mm, not yet."

01:07:53 ◼   ► And app developers are gonna have to think about that too.

01:07:55 ◼   ► So it's gonna be a new world,

01:07:57 ◼   ► but it's something to keep in mind

01:07:59 ◼   ► that they are interlinked in a way

01:08:01 ◼   ► that they haven't been up to now.

01:08:02 ◼   ► - My final pick, a new Mac ships in November.

01:08:09 ◼   ► - I was really torn on this one.

01:08:12 ◼   ► - I don't think they would do it now

01:08:13 ◼   ► if they weren't shipping until December.

01:08:15 ◼   ► - Well, okay, so it's an event on November 10th.

01:08:19 ◼   ► So the normal thing would be a Friday pre-order

01:08:23 ◼   ► and shipping on the 20th.

01:08:26 ◼   ► Although with Macs, sometimes it's not even that.

01:08:29 ◼   ► Sometimes it's just like they're shipping Friday.

01:08:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like off you go, available now.

01:08:35 ◼   ► - I think your choice is the most likely,

01:08:38 ◼   ► but we did have ships in December

01:08:40 ◼   ► and there's a part of me that thinks

01:08:41 ◼   ► everybody's gonna get really excited.

01:08:43 ◼   ► And then they're gonna say,

01:08:44 ◼   ► "And congratulations, you'll be able to get them

01:08:46 ◼   ► December 4th."

01:08:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:08:48 ◼   ► And I'm gonna be like, "Oh, all right, okay, I guess."

01:08:52 ◼   ► But I hope you're right.

01:08:53 ◼   ► I hope that it's a November ship for this stuff.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And if, again, if there are multiple ship dates,

01:08:58 ◼   ► the pick here is something has to ship in November.

01:09:01 ◼   ► That's all.

01:09:02 ◼   ► - I just think that if they were doing December,

01:09:04 ◼   ► they could have also just done this in December.

01:09:07 ◼   ► Usual rules do not apply here.

01:09:10 ◼   ► They could just run this event whenever they wanted to.

01:09:14 ◼   ► - And I think you're right.

01:09:14 ◼   ► - And I think they chose it now for a reason.

01:09:16 ◼   ► - I think it's more likely than not

01:09:17 ◼   ► that this Apple Silicon Mac that we're assuming

01:09:20 ◼   ► is gonna ship no later than November 20th.

01:09:23 ◼   ► - 'Cause I could have imagined them just as easily

01:09:27 ◼   ► if this was coming out in December,

01:09:29 ◼   ► announcing the event next Tuesday,

01:09:32 ◼   ► running the event the 17th, right?

01:09:35 ◼   ► I think they do it now so they can have them out

01:09:37 ◼   ► before Thanksgiving.

01:09:38 ◼   ► That's the assumption I've been working on this whole time.

01:09:43 ◼   ► So it just makes sense to me

01:09:44 ◼   ► that they would ship something in November.

01:09:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, makes sense.

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01:11:47 ◼   ► Okay, so we now go to our three rounds of non Mac picks.

01:11:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is gonna be hard,

01:11:57 ◼   ► but it's also gonna be wacky, so that's okay.

01:12:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, because we both feel pretty unsure

01:12:04 ◼   ► of anything other than Macs at this event now.

01:12:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's one of the things is,

01:12:08 ◼   ► would there be a different iPad?

01:12:10 ◼   ► I think probably not,

01:12:11 ◼   ► because we already had iPad at an event,

01:12:14 ◼   ► but it's not impossible.

01:12:17 ◼   ► There are no rumors about it, but you never know.

01:12:18 ◼   ► There have been rumors about some other products

01:12:20 ◼   ► that could get rolled into this event or not.

01:12:24 ◼   ► I'm gonna start with some stagecraft though,

01:12:26 ◼   ► because I like the stagecraft

01:12:28 ◼   ► and I am going to say Craig Federighi presents.

01:12:32 ◼   ► That there will be something related to Mac OS and Big Sur

01:12:36 ◼   ► and how it works that we'll hear Craig's voice.

01:12:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, I had this on there.

01:12:43 ◼   ► I've even already spoke about the fact

01:12:44 ◼   ► where I think he's going to be, right?

01:12:46 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:12:47 ◼   ► - Craig is going to be a part of this.

01:12:49 ◼   ► I am very confident of that.

01:12:52 ◼   ► We have not seen him at any of the other events recently,

01:12:55 ◼   ► other than just like in passing,

01:12:57 ◼   ► but I think this is going to be like big software time.

01:13:01 ◼   ► There's gonna be a lot of stuff

01:13:02 ◼   ► that are gonna be showing off.

01:13:03 ◼   ► So I expect Craig to be here.

01:13:06 ◼   ► I'm gonna pick a similar pick.

01:13:07 ◼   ► I believe that we will see the return of Johnny Srouji

01:13:11 ◼   ► to speak or present at this event.

01:13:12 ◼   ► - That was my other choice, right?

01:13:14 ◼   ► Was Johnny Srouji.

01:13:16 ◼   ► They could have someone else representing the chip team,

01:13:18 ◼   ► but I feel like on a launch like this,

01:13:19 ◼   ► how could you not have the guy

01:13:20 ◼   ► who's in charge of Apple's whole chip team

01:13:23 ◼   ► speak about this move?

01:13:24 ◼   ► - I think the reason that they've had other people

01:13:27 ◼   ► talking about the A14 is so they will have Johnny back

01:13:31 ◼   ► to do the Apple Silicon unveiling.

01:13:34 ◼   ► So they're actually spreading it around,

01:13:35 ◼   ► giving other people the opportunity

01:13:37 ◼   ► to show off what they've been working on.

01:13:40 ◼   ► But I think for something as monumental as this,

01:13:43 ◼   ► Srouji should have his time.

01:13:45 ◼   ► He should have kind of what he deserves.

01:13:47 ◼   ► Like I run this thing forever and now here we are.

01:13:50 ◼   ► I want to be the one to show off to the world.

01:13:53 ◼   ► And I understand that.

01:13:54 ◼   ► I think now we're getting into crazy town.

01:13:58 ◼   ► So do you wanna just like, what you got?

01:14:02 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:03 ◼   ► I'm going to say, oh boy, it is so hard now.

01:14:11 ◼   ► I'm gonna throw the over the ear headphones in.

01:14:16 ◼   ► - Ooh, okay.

01:14:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm gonna throw them in.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Why not?

01:14:22 ◼   ► They might happen. - It's the product

01:14:23 ◼   ► I want the most.

01:14:24 ◼   ► - And it would be a product that could sell a lot

01:14:26 ◼   ► at the holidays, right?

01:14:27 ◼   ► Which might be a way to get it.

01:14:29 ◼   ► I also am not entirely convinced

01:14:31 ◼   ► that this is not 100% a Mac event,

01:14:33 ◼   ► but these events are new and they've done split events

01:14:35 ◼   ► before where they've, you know, HomePod.

01:14:38 ◼   ► And so maybe again, maybe again.

01:14:42 ◼   ► So I'll throw them in there.

01:14:44 ◼   ► I have no great confidence about this,

01:14:45 ◼   ► but we're not allowed to pick more Mac picks.

01:14:47 ◼   ► So there we are.

01:14:49 ◼   ► - I did just have the thought that this event will run

01:14:52 ◼   ► before the iPhones come out.

01:14:54 ◼   ► - The new iPhones, that's true.

01:14:57 ◼   ► - Yeah. - That's true.

01:14:58 ◼   ► - I don't think anything of that,

01:15:00 ◼   ► but it is just something that I've realized.

01:15:02 ◼   ► I think that's kind of like just a funny thought really

01:15:04 ◼   ► to me. - So much going on.

01:15:06 ◼   ► - I'm gonna pick the Apple Tag product to be unveiled.

01:15:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, there we go.

01:15:12 ◼   ► - I mean, we'll pick this forever until they do it.

01:15:15 ◼   ► - I like that you and I both have like the mystery product.

01:15:18 ◼   ► These are like cryptids there, you know, Bigfoot sighting

01:15:21 ◼   ► of, oh, it's the Apple Tag, there it goes.

01:15:23 ◼   ► Oh, over ear headphones, are they?

01:15:25 ◼   ► Will we be right?

01:15:26 ◼   ► We'll be wrong.

01:15:27 ◼   ► Flip a coin and the coin will end on its side

01:15:29 ◼   ► and we're both wrong.

01:15:31 ◼   ► - What I want the most is the over ear headphones,

01:15:33 ◼   ► but I keep seeing reports of delays on that product,

01:15:36 ◼   ► which makes me nervous that it's gonna be now,

01:15:38 ◼   ► but it is what I want.

01:15:40 ◼   ► And I do believe like if this is a product

01:15:43 ◼   ► they have available, they will put it on sale

01:15:45 ◼   ► because it will do well for them, I think,

01:15:50 ◼   ► if they could do it for the holiday season.

01:15:52 ◼   ► - So I feel like we should have put more people

01:15:57 ◼   ► in this category of predicting people.

01:16:00 ◼   ► - I have two possible picks and I don't believe either of them.

01:16:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:16:05 ◼   ► So, yeah.

01:16:07 ◼   ► - Actually there's a whole set of stuff

01:16:09 ◼   ► that I've just thought of that we haven't included,

01:16:11 ◼   ► which is anything services or anything Apple TV related.

01:16:14 ◼   ► We didn't even consider that when we were pointing together

01:16:16 ◼   ► our hasty draft selection.

01:16:19 ◼   ► - I just don't think it's gonna happen.

01:16:22 ◼   ► - Honestly, that could be like a February event

01:16:24 ◼   ► at this point.

01:16:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:16:27 ◼   ► If you wanna pick a services related thing,

01:16:32 ◼   ► let's say I'm gonna, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

01:16:37 ◼   ► Oh no, I'm gonna put Jaws.

01:16:44 ◼   ► I think we've heard from Jaws

01:16:45 ◼   ► and we're not gonna hear Jaws again,

01:16:46 ◼   ► but I'm gonna put Jaws Presents down

01:16:48 ◼   ► that Jaws will say a word.

01:16:50 ◼   ► Presents, by presents I literally mean

01:16:52 ◼   ► we will hear Jaws' voice,

01:16:54 ◼   ► Greg Jaws React's voice at some point.

01:16:56 ◼   ► He is the head of product marketing.

01:16:58 ◼   ► I actually don't think we'll hear from him.

01:17:00 ◼   ► Although I do know he loves the Mac,

01:17:03 ◼   ► I think they'll use other product marketing people

01:17:05 ◼   ► to talk about this, but I'll throw Jaws in there.

01:17:07 ◼   ► I'll take a flyer on that for my keynote bingo.

01:17:09 ◼   ► - Here's a question for you.

01:17:12 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - 'Cause I'm seeing Carl is mentioning Lisa Jackson

01:17:16 ◼   ► in the Discord.

01:17:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:17:19 ◼   ► Do you think these,

01:17:20 ◼   ► do you think they'll include power adapters with the Macs?

01:17:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do.

01:17:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do too.

01:17:26 ◼   ► - 'Cause you need more power for those.

01:17:29 ◼   ► But if you wanna pick a Lisa Jackson appearance

01:17:32 ◼   ► to break some news to us gently, you can do that.

01:17:35 ◼   ► That would be fine.

01:17:36 ◼   ► - I'm going with new AirPods model.

01:17:38 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:17:40 ◼   ► That doesn't, that's AirPods, not the over the ear.

01:17:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's everything but over the ear,

01:17:44 ◼   ► so we don't double up on our picks here.

01:17:46 ◼   ► But this is like a new AirPods,

01:17:49 ◼   ► a new model of what we,

01:17:50 ◼   ► kind of the stuff that we've seen in the past.

01:17:52 ◼   ► Basically anything except the over ears.

01:17:54 ◼   ► I just can, you know, AirPods Pro 2,

01:17:58 ◼   ► new AirPods 3.

01:18:01 ◼   ► Also there is, there's been some rumors

01:18:03 ◼   ► and some interesting reports of like,

01:18:06 ◼   ► an AirPods case that can be charged by MagSafe from a phone.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Did you see this?

01:18:12 ◼   ► - I did see that.

01:18:14 ◼   ► - There was an FCC report that Apple had filed

01:18:16 ◼   ► saying that a future Apple accessory

01:18:19 ◼   ► could be powered by MagSafe.

01:18:21 ◼   ► And wouldn't that be interesting

01:18:24 ◼   ► if it was like reverse charging for AirPods.

01:18:27 ◼   ► So I could imagine that as a product.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And so I could also imagine them doing

01:18:34 ◼   ► what they did with the, when the AirPods went chi

01:18:38 ◼   ► and they had a new model

01:18:40 ◼   ► and they also introduced a new wireless charging case.

01:18:45 ◼   ► - Fascinating.

01:18:45 ◼   ► - So that is the draft.

01:18:47 ◼   ► Do you have anything else?

01:18:48 ◼   ► Probably not, but did you have anything you didn't pick?

01:18:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know, so one that I put in

01:18:54 ◼   ► that made us both laugh,

01:18:55 ◼   ► 'cause again, we were just assembling this

01:18:56 ◼   ► on the fly this morning,

01:18:57 ◼   ► like Intel not mentioned.

01:18:58 ◼   ► Like what if they just don't mention Intel?

01:19:01 ◼   ► Just don't.

01:19:02 ◼   ► Like say we're moving on, we're never looking back.

01:19:04 ◼   ► I don't think this will happen probably because of Rosetta,

01:19:07 ◼   ► which we actually had on the list of demo of Rosetta 2,

01:19:10 ◼   ► which I think is also a pretty good bet

01:19:13 ◼   ► that they'll probably mention

01:19:14 ◼   ► that this is compiled for Intel and look, it runs great.

01:19:16 ◼   ► But you know, I think it's worth saying,

01:19:18 ◼   ► would they even mention Intel?

01:19:20 ◼   ► Maybe like that would be the ultimate freeze out, right?

01:19:24 ◼   ► Like we've moved on.

01:19:26 ◼   ► We don't even say its name anymore.

01:19:28 ◼   ► - It's like the John Draper thing, right?

01:19:31 ◼   ► The John Draper meme, like,

01:19:33 ◼   ► I think about you all the time,

01:19:34 ◼   ► I don't even think about you at all.

01:19:36 ◼   ► I was thinking that we might see, and I believe we will,

01:19:39 ◼   ► but I just didn't pick it,

01:19:40 ◼   ► demos of apps running in Rosetta 2.

01:19:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's when they'll talk about Intel probably.

01:19:47 ◼   ► I think there'll be a game demo too, right?

01:19:49 ◼   ► An inevitable, the inevitable interminable game demo

01:19:52 ◼   ► that shows you how impressive performance is on the Mac.

01:19:55 ◼   ► - Look how great these Apple Arcade games

01:19:57 ◼   ► that are made for iOS run on the new Macs.

01:20:00 ◼   ► - So the thing that I want desperately

01:20:02 ◼   ► and that I didn't pick is touchscreen

01:20:04 ◼   ► because I think once you're running iOS apps,

01:20:08 ◼   ► it really makes you ask the question,

01:20:09 ◼   ► why not have a multi-touch screen for the iOS apps?

01:20:14 ◼   ► And I think that the Mac may yet get a touchscreen,

01:20:19 ◼   ► but this feels early, right?

01:20:21 ◼   ► This feels like maybe this is the continuity

01:20:25 ◼   ► rather than introducing new modes of working phase

01:20:28 ◼   ► of the Apple Silicon transition.

01:20:30 ◼   ► And that we'll have a chance to open up the can of worms

01:20:34 ◼   ► on that later.

01:20:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel like the person who might be the most upset

01:20:41 ◼   ► if this is the case is actually John Gruber now

01:20:45 ◼   ► because I keep hearing him mention like,

01:20:47 ◼   ► this is gonna be big, this is gonna be really big.

01:20:50 ◼   ► And I don't know how big it's gonna be at first, right?

01:20:55 ◼   ► - I think it is gonna be big in a long sweep

01:20:57 ◼   ► of history of the Mac.

01:20:59 ◼   ► But I think the thing that keeps coming back to me

01:21:03 ◼   ► is this idea, is Apple going to make this transition,

01:21:08 ◼   ► this big sweeping move where suddenly

01:21:10 ◼   ► everything is different?

01:21:12 ◼   ► Or is the two year period incremental?

01:21:17 ◼   ► The two year period is not just,

01:21:20 ◼   ► we're gonna release systems over two years

01:21:22 ◼   ► that replace Intel, but the two year period is also,

01:21:24 ◼   ► we're gonna roll out new things,

01:21:26 ◼   ► new tech that transforms the Mac,

01:21:29 ◼   ► but we're gonna do it over that period.

01:21:31 ◼   ► And so even if touchscreen Macs are coming,

01:21:34 ◼   ► maybe you don't start with that.

01:21:38 ◼   ► Now that adds complexity later where you're like,

01:21:40 ◼   ► oh, touchscreens are on Apple Silicon Macs,

01:21:42 ◼   ► except for the ones that it's not at the beginning.

01:21:46 ◼   ► But I do think, and maybe they won't come at all.

01:21:49 ◼   ► And that'll be Apple just sort of frustrating everybody.

01:21:52 ◼   ► But I do think that they are probably coming

01:21:54 ◼   ► sometime somewhere.

01:21:55 ◼   ► And the question is, is it gonna be on every Mac or not?

01:21:58 ◼   ► And is it gonna be right away or are we gonna have to wait?

01:22:00 ◼   ► But if that MacBook has a touchscreen,

01:22:02 ◼   ► then that will be awesome.

01:22:03 ◼   ► And I hope it does because again, it's running iOS apps.

01:22:08 ◼   ► It'd be awfully nice if you could reach up

01:22:10 ◼   ► and scroll those apps, that would be cool.

01:22:13 ◼   ► - I think big, big, big, big, big changes are coming.

01:22:16 ◼   ► But I can imagine a sliding scale

01:22:21 ◼   ► over the next couple of years.

01:22:23 ◼   ► - And we already have cursor interaction on iOS, right?

01:22:25 ◼   ► With the iPad and therefore having that be essentially

01:22:30 ◼   ► what's happening on the Mac in the meantime, makes sense.

01:22:33 ◼   ► You could do that, it would be fine.

01:22:34 ◼   ► - So that's the draft.

01:22:38 ◼   ► - That's it.

01:22:39 ◼   ► - As always, we'll have a scorecard in the show notes.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Scorecard might not be available straight away,

01:22:44 ◼   ► again, because we have to get wonderful Zach Knox

01:22:49 ◼   ► to put that together for us.

01:22:50 ◼   ► And Zach had less, I think less notice than we did,

01:22:55 ◼   ► even about the event today,

01:22:57 ◼   ► but it will be in there before the next episode.

01:23:02 ◼   ► So you can maybe go pick it up before the event.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Obviously we will be recording on Tuesday the 10th

01:23:10 ◼   ► and we'll be streaming live on Tuesday the 10th

01:23:13 ◼   ► after the event.

01:23:14 ◼   ► - Time to be determined, but after the event,

01:23:16 ◼   ► it might be right after the event,

01:23:17 ◼   ► it might be a few hours after the event.

01:23:18 ◼   ► - Well, likely be with a bit of a gap in between

01:23:22 ◼   ► like it was last time at least.

01:23:24 ◼   ► - We'll see, it's a very busy time.

01:23:26 ◼   ► And there are a lot of other things going on post event

01:23:29 ◼   ► that sometimes force us to be not like hot right after,

01:23:34 ◼   ► but after a few hours.

01:23:35 ◼   ► - It will be that day, right?

01:23:36 ◼   ► It will be within a few hours.

01:23:37 ◼   ► - But it will be, yes, it will be post event.

01:23:39 ◼   ► - Keep an eye out on Twitter,

01:23:41 ◼   ► on the upgrade to account on our Twitter accounts as well.

01:23:44 ◼   ► We'll publish in that directory

01:23:46 ◼   ► in the relay for members discord.

01:23:47 ◼   ► We'll post it there as well when we're about to go live.

01:23:49 ◼   ► But if you don't wanna listen live or can't listen live,

01:23:52 ◼   ► that episode will be out on Tuesday,

01:23:54 ◼   ► mere hours after the event has ended.

01:23:56 ◼   ► Basically we will do the thing.

01:23:58 ◼   ► I'll put it together and post it.

01:23:59 ◼   ► So you will get our fresh takes as soon as possible.

01:24:04 ◼   ► So yeah, wow, we did it, Jason Snow.

01:24:07 ◼   ► - We did it, emergency draft.

01:24:09 ◼   ► - Can't believe it.

01:24:10 ◼   ► - We did it.

01:24:11 ◼   ► Okay, so if you wanna find show notes

01:24:14 ◼   ► for this week's episode,

01:24:15 ◼   ► you can go to relay.fm/upgrades/324.

01:24:18 ◼   ► Of course, Jason will be following along

01:24:21 ◼   ► and reporting on everything

01:24:22 ◼   ► over the next couple of weeks that unfolds.

01:24:24 ◼   ► You can go to sixcolors.com

01:24:26 ◼   ► and you can follow Jason online.

01:24:27 ◼   ► He is @jasonl, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:24:30 ◼   ► If you wanna follow that, I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:24:34 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Squarespace, KiwiCo, and SaneBox

01:24:37 ◼   ► for their support of this show.

01:24:39 ◼   ► And if you are a member and support this show as well,

01:24:41 ◼   ► thank you so much.

01:24:42 ◼   ► If you would like to get ad-free,

01:24:44 ◼   ► longer episodes of Upgrade every single week,

01:24:46 ◼   ► go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up there.

01:24:51 ◼   ► Until next time, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:24:54 ◼   ► - Goodbye, Myke Hurley.

01:24:55 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:24:57 ◼   ► (whistling)

01:25:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:25:02 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:25:05 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:25:07 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:25:10 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:25:13 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]