00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 338. Today's show is brought to you by Fitbod, Hover, and DoorDash.
00:00:31 ◼ ► I was relieved to have a Super Bowl that didn't involve a team that I cared about at all.
00:00:37 ◼ ► Last year I cared about the Super Bowl and this year I didn't and so that was kind of nice.
00:00:47 ◼ ► interesting and I was watching Twitter and I think you put all those things together and you're kind
00:00:51 ◼ ► of, there's a moment where everybody's sort of watching the same TV show and I think that's a fun
00:01:01 ◼ ► I will say, you know, you say about these were two teams that you didn't really care about.
00:01:21 ◼ ► Yeah, sure. I liked it. I'm a big fan of The Weekend. I like The Weekend's music a lot.
00:01:26 ◼ ► I saw a tweet that said the people who know that it's spelled The Weeknd liked it and the
00:01:39 ◼ ► was at the Super Bowl halftime show. That was pretty fun. Um, yeah, he's good. And I liked,
00:01:46 ◼ ► I liked the whole thing. They did it. Uh, you know, usually Super Bowl halftime, they bring a
00:01:50 ◼ ► stage out to the middle of the field and they have like a bunch of people run in who are not
00:01:53 ◼ ► there for the game, but they're like screaming fans. And because of the pandemic, they didn't
00:01:56 ◼ ► do that. And they had this space in that stadium that during the regular season, it's, it's like
00:02:00 ◼ ► a pirate ship because it's the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. There's a, there's like a pirate ship there and it
00:02:05 ◼ ► fires off like fake cannons and stuff when they score touchdowns. And I don't know. Um, and they
00:02:09 ◼ ► made that into like the stage for The Weekend and he had his weird glowing eyed kind of robot monster
00:02:17 ◼ ► people, uh, which I really liked. I liked how creepy it was. And then he goes into the hall of
00:02:21 ◼ ► mirrors and they're bumping into him and all of that. I really liked the staging of it. And then
00:02:24 ◼ ► he just, it was very theatrical and then they end up all kind of like marching down the field
00:02:28 ◼ ► at the end. I really liked it. I thought it was good. Yeah. I thought the visuals of it was great
00:02:32 ◼ ► and I love his music. So I think it fit very nicely for that environment. So yeah, I thought
00:02:44 ◼ ► I have a little mini upstream note, which is, uh, the, the broadcast was on CBS in the United States.
00:02:49 ◼ ► The CBS got the broadcast this year. And, uh, we've talked about how after, you know, the
00:02:56 ◼ ► very much fraught merger between re merger between Viacom and CBS, they had to figure out what they
00:03:03 ◼ ► were doing for their streaming service strategy. And they ultimately decided to call it Paramount
00:03:08 ◼ ► plus because sure. It's got a plus. And I think Paramount plus is a better name for a streaming
00:03:15 ◼ ► service than CBS all access because CBS all access sounds like a chance to watch old episodes of CSI.
00:03:22 ◼ ► Um, and Paramount plus actually sounds like a streaming service. That's got a lot of stuff
00:03:27 ◼ ► on it. So that's what they are going with. And that launches March 3rd. I want to say it launches
00:03:32 ◼ ► in a month, basically a little less than a month. And since they have super bowl, there's a whole ad
00:03:37 ◼ ► campaign during the super bowl. Uh, the repeated ads sort of like an ongoing story that I thought
00:03:41 ◼ ► was a funny like comedy bit that they did with all the properties of the corporate behemoth,
00:03:46 ◼ ► but lighthearted. Uh, and, uh, so they heavily pushed that, uh, which I think, uh, you know,
00:03:52 ◼ ► you got the stage, you got the super bowl, you're launching your thing in a month. The only thing
00:03:57 ◼ ► that would have made it better is if they launched it like today, but apparently they couldn't do
00:04:01 ◼ ► that. So they're launching it in March and they're still, I think it was the right thing to do to
00:04:05 ◼ ► promote it. It's probably why they paid the money they paid for the super bowl. Well, I mean, they
00:04:12 ◼ ► it's, that's more complicated. Like they pay those contracts. If you're an NFL broadcaster,
00:04:16 ◼ ► you get in the rotation and they did actually change who broadcast this year. And it had to
00:04:21 ◼ ► do with like who had other events in the year that they wanted to promote. They swapped dates with
00:04:26 ◼ ► one of the other networks, but it wasn't about this and that happens way in advance. So, but it
00:04:30 ◼ ► was a happy accident. And I think they must've had that moment where just like, well, we got to
00:04:34 ◼ ► promote the streaming service at the super bowl, but we can't launch it in time. So we'll just say
00:04:38 ◼ ► it's coming in March. And I think it would have been more effective if they could have said,
00:04:41 ◼ ► you know, CBS, all access is now paramount plus sign up today. And instead they're like March 3rd,
00:04:47 ◼ ► which is so close to right. Yeah. But sometimes, you know, the best late plans and all that kind
00:04:54 ◼ ► of stuff. But I do, I do think, you know, as silly as we make fun of the branding and all that,
00:04:58 ◼ ► but they took a broad, it's like a classic movie name from, from entertainment history that they
00:05:04 ◼ ► own, which is paramount. And yeah, they stuck a plus on it. I know. Paramount's the better brand.
00:05:09 ◼ ► It's like why HBO max, right? Like HBO is a better brand. Exactly. And it's a worldwide brand in the
00:05:17 ◼ ► way that CBS is most definitely not. And also again, CBS means something in America, but it
00:05:22 ◼ ► doesn't necessarily mean what you want it to mean. Like watching as a Star Trek fan watching press
00:05:28 ◼ ► kind of contort themselves to explain that no Star Trek is not on CBS. It's on CBS all access, which
00:05:34 ◼ ► is a streaming thing, but it's the name for the broadcast thing, but it's not on the broadcast
00:05:39 ◼ ► thing, except, you know, one episode is now they're going to rerun some and it gets very confusing.
00:05:43 ◼ ► It's much easier to be like, no, no, no, it's a streaming service. That's all you need to know.
00:05:51 ◼ ► just send out a tweet with the hashtag snow talk or use question Mark snow talk in the relay
00:05:55 ◼ ► FM members discord, couple of follow-up notes. So this is kind of funny because we can not only
00:06:01 ◼ ► get some follow-up, but also provide follow-up for a thing that we haven't yet spoken about,
00:06:06 ◼ ► which was the returning of the DTK, the developer transition kits. So last week, sometime Apple
00:06:13 ◼ ► contacted developers who received their arm Mac mini developer transition kits to tell them that
00:06:19 ◼ ► the time was coming for them to return them. We all knew that they would need to be returned.
00:06:23 ◼ ► Yes. It was the obvious thing. Uh, precedent had been set with the Intel, uh, transition kit that
00:06:29 ◼ ► Apple would likely offer some large discount or a free and one Mac for those in the programs.
00:06:43 ◼ ► On this occasion, Apple offered a $200 credit towards an M1 Mac that you had to purchase before
00:06:50 ◼ ► the end of May. This upset people for a bunch of reasons. It's a very small amount, right? $200.
00:06:56 ◼ ► Yeah. Um, you probably already bought one, right? There's unlikely to be any, not necessarily, but
00:07:04 ◼ ► it is unknown if there will be any Macs before the end of May that are new. It's very unlikely
00:07:10 ◼ ► to be the MacBook pros, which is what everybody would want. Right. And you had to buy before the
00:07:18 ◼ ► Trout and Smith complaining something I didn't know, which was a lot of the DTKs stopped working,
00:07:23 ◼ ► like there were lots of issues with them. Um, so, you know, it's easy to say, Oh, well, you know,
00:07:29 ◼ ► of course people want more stuff. And, but this is, these are the most important people to Apple.
00:07:33 ◼ ► These are their developers and these are their developers who want to be on the cutting edge
00:07:36 ◼ ► and supporting their new platforms. So you would think that they would, they would try to do,
00:07:40 ◼ ► you know, everything. And I would say that the, the, the, the, this problem started early.
00:07:46 ◼ ► Cause, um, everybody with a DTK is they, they expected that they were going to be able to get
00:07:51 ◼ ► something from Apple out of it, but then the M1 Macs are announced and they're like, okay,
00:07:54 ◼ ► now what Apple and months go by. And I, a lot of developers are like, I'm going to wait and buy an
00:08:01 ◼ ► M1 Mac once my DTK situation is resolved. And it's like, why did you make them wait? Why did you not
00:08:07 ◼ ► make it clear upfront that what they could do so that they could move on it immediately? But
00:08:12 ◼ ► instead they waited all this time and then they put the, I mean, again, more money would be nicer
00:08:17 ◼ ► than less money than $200, but also the restriction of you've got to, you can only use it on an M1 Mac
00:08:22 ◼ ► and you have to use it by May. So if we announce anything at WWDC, you can't use it for that.
00:08:32 ◼ ► but it seemed very strange that they would be so limited with what they would offer considering
00:08:39 ◼ ► that these are their most important people really, which is their developers and like do a, do a good
00:08:45 ◼ ► thing for your developers and for developer relations, please, which good news eventually
00:08:51 ◼ ► they did. So just a few days later, Apple increased the credit to $500, pushed the redemption day out
00:08:57 ◼ ► to the end of the year and said that if you already have an M1 Mac, you can use the credit on other
00:09:01 ◼ ► Apple hardware. It's just like, oh, oh, you wanted different things? Okay. We'll just give you those
00:09:07 ◼ ► then. I would love to hear that conversation of like, oh, it turns out that everybody hates us
00:09:12 ◼ ► for this. Why did we do it this way, Johnny? Johnny, did you do this? Yeah, I did this. I
00:09:16 ◼ ► just wanted to save some money. Well, Johnny, get out there and give them $500 now. The amount at
00:09:22 ◼ ► which they reverse this, I think kind of shows that they weren't aware of why this would be a problem,
00:09:27 ◼ ► right? Because they, they really, they, they could have done any of these three things and
00:09:33 ◼ ► appeased people, you know, they would have not have appeased everyone, but they would have appeased
00:09:41 ◼ ► end of the year, or you can just use it on a new iPad or whatever. Uh, but instead they just did
00:09:47 ◼ ► all of them, which I think is right. Honestly, I do think it's right to make developers whole
00:09:51 ◼ ► for this because it's doing Apple a favor as much as the developers a favor. Yeah. I think the way
00:09:58 ◼ ► we viewed the Intel transition kit. And I think that the way that a lot of developers viewed this,
00:10:03 ◼ ► uh, Apple Silicon transition kit is that you're essentially putting down a deposit on some
00:10:09 ◼ ► hardware that you're going to need to return to Apple. And that when you return it, you're going
00:10:14 ◼ ► to basically, you're going to get your money back because you're not, the idea here is that you're,
00:10:19 ◼ ► you know, yes, you're going to have your stuff there on day one, but you're also doing Apple
00:10:23 ◼ ► a favor by embracing an Apple, you know, it's a, it's a symbiotic relationship here. It's like,
00:10:27 ◼ ► we're going to get you this advanced, weird hardware because we really want your apps there
00:10:31 ◼ ► on day one, but we're going to charge you for it is a weird thing. So like they could, I think it's
00:10:37 ◼ ► not unreasonable to view it as being, uh, essentially free with a deposit and you want to get
00:10:41 ◼ ► that money back at the end. And in the end, that is what they did. Uh, Bloomberg reports, uh, that
00:10:48 ◼ ► Dan Riccio's new role. So we spoke about this last week that he was moving on from kind of head of
00:10:54 ◼ ► hardware to a special project is actually going to be overseeing an AR VR, uh, project development
00:11:01 ◼ ► cycle. Um, I don't remember if I spoke about this, if I mentioned this on this show or on connected,
00:11:06 ◼ ► but this is what I thought it was like the idea of him moving on to do a car, which is what everybody
00:11:11 ◼ ► thought seemed unlikely to me. It felt like considering they have this whole thing, which
00:11:17 ◼ ► is sooner, which is moving into AR and VR projects that in theory is going to be a really big deal.
00:11:24 ◼ ► So having somebody oversee that makes more sense. And that's what Mark Gorman's reporting. I think
00:11:28 ◼ ► this makes complete, maybe he moves on to a car afterwards if that's something Apple really is
00:11:33 ◼ ► going to do. Um, but in the near term, there are other things to manage and AR VR is one of them.
00:11:41 ◼ ► So that's what a Riccio is going to be going on to do. Yeah. And it sounds like they're,
00:11:45 ◼ ► they're at the point we're going to talk about this in a little bit, but it sounds like they're
00:11:48 ◼ ► at the point where they need to make real products. Um, in that category. And the first one may not be
00:11:54 ◼ ► much of a real product, but that, that is they're entering the phase where they're going to go public
00:12:00 ◼ ► with this stuff. And so having him kind of lead that effort makes more sense than, than like far
00:12:06 ◼ ► off car stuff, which, you know, we will, we will talk about car stuff here eventually, but I feel
00:12:12 ◼ ► like there's no rush. I think we've got a few years to talk about it, so we'll get to it. Yeah. So I
00:12:17 ◼ ► will just note, like, there's so much stuff going on with the Apple car and I've been collecting
00:12:21 ◼ ► some notes, right. I collect links as I do for everything. And every week I collect more links
00:12:26 ◼ ► and delete old links because like one moment Kia's doing it and then Kia's not doing it. Then they are
00:12:31 ◼ ► doing it. And then they're not doing it. And it's, yeah, I'm kind of happy we haven't yet spoken
00:12:36 ◼ ► about it because we would be doing follow-up every single week on this about a product that may or
00:12:41 ◼ ► may not exist and who knows why. And I will say the one thing that happened in the last week in
00:12:46 ◼ ► your, in the Apple car news and we're still, we need to come up with a name for our recurring
00:12:50 ◼ ► Apple car segment. I'm thinking Upshift, but we can, we can work it out. Oh my God. All right.
00:12:55 ◼ ► Now we have to start talking about it because you came up with a great name. We'll, we'll,
00:12:58 ◼ ► we'll workshop it. But the funny thing this week, what happened, so this is like a little,
00:13:02 ◼ ► a little side segment, is there was a report that said Hyundai and Kia are going to totally make the
00:13:10 ◼ ► Apple car in their plant in Georgia. And then like two days later, there was a story that was like,
00:13:14 ◼ ► no, no, no, no, no, no, no, nothing is signed. No, no, no, no, no, no, nothing, nothing.
00:13:18 ◼ ► And I can't decide whether there are negotiations going on and things are leaking from that.
00:13:23 ◼ ► And then Apple gets mad and that Hyundai has to put out like their leaks that say, no, no, no, no,
00:13:29 ◼ ► no, no, no, no, nothing has happened. Or they totally have made the deal and Apple's unhappy
00:13:34 ◼ ► that it leaked and Hyundai has to go out and say, no, no, no, no, no. Or they made the deal. Then
00:13:38 ◼ ► they said it, Apple got so mad, canceled it. Right? Like it could be any of those things.
00:13:42 ◼ ► Could be, right? It's hard to say from the outside what it is, but it is hilarious. I say,
00:13:47 ◼ ► I, you know, I wouldn't want to be one of the people deeply involved in this cause it's not
00:13:50 ◼ ► hilarious to them, but to me it's hilarious. Cause it's very much like, uh, right, right. In the Apple
00:13:57 ◼ ► supply chain, although there are leaks, most of the companies know like nobody making a part for
00:14:04 ◼ ► an iPhone is putting out a press release saying, Hey, the next iPhone is going to be pretty great
00:14:08 ◼ ► because of our thing that we're putting in the next iPhone that'll be coming this fall. Right?
00:14:12 ◼ ► They know, they know you don't do that. You don't pre-announce anything with Apple. Apple
00:14:16 ◼ ► doesn't want you to do that. And it feels a little bit like there are people in the car industry
00:14:20 ◼ ► who, you know, car industry, they're like, Oh, concept car, new car. This car is coming out in
00:14:25 ◼ ► two years and stuff like that. Who are like, yeah, we're going to be in the Apple car. And then people
00:14:29 ◼ ► are like, no, you can't, you can't do that. And they're like, Oh, I didn't. Oh, okay. Deny it.
00:14:34 ◼ ► No, we're not in the, there is no Apple car. So they'll get, they'll get used to it. And then
00:14:38 ◼ ► we'll have kind of normal leaks from the car industry. But right now it does feel a little
00:14:42 ◼ ► bit like they don't know how to behave about secret Apple stuff. And so there it's, it's sloppy,
00:14:48 ◼ ► it's messy, but I find it very funny that this is these, and this isn't the first time, right? This
00:14:52 ◼ ► is the second time somebody has said, Oh, Apple's got to deal with Hyundai. And then it's been like,
00:14:56 ◼ ► no, no, no, no, absolutely not. And then wait, wait a month. And then it's, Oh, Apple's got to
00:15:01 ◼ ► deal with Hyundai. Nope, Nope, Nope. All right. This episode is brought to you by our friends
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00:17:17 ◼ ► and Relay FM. So the information has a report on Apple's upcoming AR, VR, MR headset. It's
00:17:30 ◼ ► scheduled to launch "as early as next year" so not before 2022. But 2022 onwards. This is a thing that
00:17:40 ◼ ► I see Bloomberg say this a lot, Mark Gilman says this a lot too, "as early as" because it's like
00:17:45 ◼ ► they have an idea but they don't know when it's going to be. So they've got some information about
00:17:49 ◼ ► some hardware features. So one is more than a dozen cameras for tracking hand movements.
00:17:54 ◼ ► And apparently there'll be also some thimble-like device potentially that could be worn on a finger.
00:18:01 ◼ ► But it seems like from this report they may be really leaning into hand tracking for some kind of
00:18:08 ◼ ► AR, VR headset. I don't want them to rely solely on hand tracking myself. I think there should also be
00:18:17 ◼ ► some kind of controllers. What do you think? Well I haven't had an experience with like pure hand
00:18:24 ◼ ► tracking in VR or AR. I see the importance of having the controllers because remember my first
00:18:31 ◼ ► VR thing was PSVR with just a controller and not the PS Move things and so it didn't hand track
00:18:41 ◼ ► basically and that was not great. And now with the Oculus Quest 2 it has individual hand controllers
00:18:49 ◼ ► and so it does controller-based tracking and it is like night and day. I can see the appeal of not
00:18:55 ◼ ► even having to do that optionally and have you know it just has cameras and it can sense where
00:19:01 ◼ ► your hands are and it uses that. My concern is that you know you're giving up some specificity of input
00:19:06 ◼ ► and you're right because you don't have buttons that you can push and also you're relying on a
00:19:13 ◼ ► view from above to your hand and that also probably means that you could make small gestures sort of
00:19:19 ◼ ► in the shadow you know out of the line of sight that it wouldn't pick up potentially. And I worry
00:19:24 ◼ ► that just doing it based entirely on a camera I worry about precision right because one of the
00:19:31 ◼ ► things that amazes me that's magical about the Quest 2 ping pong game is that it is shockingly
00:19:38 ◼ ► precise in simulating that. That said I'm not playing ping pong. I mean ping pong is a good
00:19:44 ◼ ► example where I'm holding a paddle in my hand so I'm holding the controller so it feels real but in
00:19:49 ◼ ► most of these cases you know you're supposed to be reaching out with your hands but you're in fact
00:19:53 ◼ ► lifting a hand that's holding a controller and pressing a button and that's not... so I see the
00:19:57 ◼ ► appeal of hand tracking you know I guess what I would say is having something that allows you to
00:20:05 ◼ ► have a more precise experience as an option is probably the right way to do it. If you think
00:20:10 ◼ ► about the iPad letting you use the Apple pencil or a finger or attaching a keyboard I sort of think
00:20:15 ◼ ► that AR and VR maybe needs the same approach which is maybe you want a game controller maybe you want
00:20:21 ◼ ► you know hand tracking controllers or maybe you don't need any of those for this application and
00:20:25 ◼ ► you can just use your hands and that's and swipe in the air like on a science fiction TV show and
00:20:30 ◼ ► that's enough so I'm kind of open about it. I see the appeal of doing it purely that way but I also
00:20:34 ◼ ► see all the ways that if you didn't implement it kind of perfectly and brilliantly it would have
00:20:39 ◼ ► downsides. It's like the as I think we spoke about as an upgrade plus a little bit ago when we were
00:20:45 ◼ ► talking about the Oculus Quest there is hand tracking there is a hand tracking mode and there
00:20:51 ◼ ► are some games that do it and the experience that I've had is quite limited the experience that I've
00:20:57 ◼ ► had is okay right it's like that was impressive that this kind of works at all that you know that
00:21:04 ◼ ► I'm pointing right but unless Apple has some huge leapfrog over Oculus on this I would be concerned
00:21:12 ◼ ► and well that's that's the question right it's like what we know we don't know whether that is
00:21:18 ◼ ► because it's really really hard or whether because I mean if Apple can do it right that that's not
00:21:23 ◼ ► having the product it's like well sure maybe Apple solved this problem that otherwise is bad and
00:21:27 ◼ ► they've done that before maybe they did it again or maybe not we don't know. Can you imagine like
00:21:35 ◼ ► an Apple VR controller they're just these two like buttonless like plinths of course that you just
00:21:42 ◼ ► hold and you have to just all that one touch surface you have to just work out exactly where
00:21:47 ◼ ► to hit it the cameras apparently will also be able to pass vision to the headset so to create that
00:21:52 ◼ ► kind of mixed reality mode so that's how it goes from AR to VR right it can either show you just
00:21:57 ◼ ► what's on the displays or it can as well as using those cameras from tracking for tracking can use
00:22:02 ◼ ► them to show the world outside of the headset so it could be used for AR or VR. Yeah and although
00:22:07 ◼ ► you look really dumb wearing a VR headset and moving around if you can see at least at least you
00:22:14 ◼ ► you don't look very good but you can see and there are some delightful things that you can do I mean
00:22:19 ◼ ► like I'm delighted by the low resolution black and white mixed reality mode that I can put the
00:22:24 ◼ ► August quest in because there not only is it just kind of hilarious but it's also very useful
00:22:28 ◼ ► because otherwise you can't see the world around you in any context and if you can couple that to
00:22:33 ◼ ► you have good cameras and you couple that to really good displays and again you're going to look like
00:22:38 ◼ ► a dummy you're going to look ridiculous but you could actually like walk around and do stuff and
00:22:44 ◼ ► have it be which is why Microsoft always talked about like hololens as a business tool right this
00:22:50 ◼ ► is like you're not going to walk around your house in this thing but if you were using it for a
00:22:55 ◼ ► business application you would have a an excuse for looking so silly. Apparently as well so this
00:23:03 ◼ ► is this is like going into that two 8k displays inside of this which seems aggressive I mean I'm
00:23:12 ◼ ► maybe I'm not completely familiar with the current state of VR headsets but I know a point that it
00:23:21 ◼ ► was just one display and it was across the whole thing and you would just look at it and they split
00:23:26 ◼ ► it down the middle maybe you do it now with two displays instead two small displays. I don't know
00:23:32 ◼ ► I mean I don't know I'm looking I'm trying to find this out from looking at the oculus page right now
00:23:37 ◼ ► and I can't find it. Your question is do they mean two 8k displays or do they mean there's an 8k
00:23:40 ◼ ► display that's split across the two maybe they misunderstood this or something right the the
00:23:45 ◼ ► point here though is that apple is shooting for a level of graphics detail that the existing
00:23:52 ◼ ► displays don't have. And now I feel like that might be quite an ask so especially with passing
00:24:00 ◼ ► the passing the outside world in right it's a lot of data to handle because you have to do it
00:24:07 ◼ ► in as close to real time as possible right to stop people from feeling nauseated you can't have like
00:24:14 ◼ ► a couple of second delay from me moving my head if I and then and the world moving. You need some
00:24:19 ◼ ► serious graphics power to drive those things you know that's the question. And at 8k right like
00:24:24 ◼ ► that's that's the thing like just to do it I expect is quite intensive but to do it at 8k
00:24:30 ◼ ► feels like a lot. I mean I guess this is the this is going to be one of I think the more interesting
00:24:39 ◼ ► tests of apple silicon. So I think what we're looking at here is apple wanting to build the
00:24:45 ◼ ► platform knowing that it's not going to ship in volume for years right not not going to ship in
00:24:52 ◼ ► volume with that first product it's really going to be the year after that or the year after that
00:25:02 ◼ ► is smart if that's what they're doing which is it's imagining the moment when you could almost
00:25:10 ◼ ► view it as being apple drawing a line and saying below here it's not good enough for us right and
00:25:15 ◼ ► we also there's some injection of reality there like we're also not going to get there in a year.
00:25:20 ◼ ► So they're trying to build what the tech would be what's state of the art in VR in 2023 2024
00:25:29 ◼ ► because there's no point in building a 720p VR headset platform and and not shipping it for
00:25:37 ◼ ► four years or three years because you know the world has moved on by then. So this is very much
00:25:42 ◼ ► what you do if you were shooting for tech advancement that will take you where you want
00:25:46 ◼ ► to go in three or four years and in the meantime all you have to do is make a kind of heavy super
00:25:51 ◼ ► expensive technical demo version in you know for in a year which is what the report suggests
00:25:59 ◼ ► is going on and we've talked about some of those before that this is not there is going to be
00:26:02 ◼ ► expensive and it's not going to be in volume and we don't know whether they're going to call it a
00:26:08 ◼ ► developer kit or whether they're going to claim it's a consumer product but nobody's going to buy
00:26:12 ◼ ► it because it's going to be so expensive but that sort of makes sense if what they're really trying
00:26:20 ◼ ► when they ship that real product in you know 2023 2024 2025. So on that level it makes sense to me
00:26:30 ◼ ► like you know shoot shoot for as high end as you can right now because that high end is going to be
00:26:36 ◼ ► the mainstream by the time the product comes out the real product. Yeah so there's there is some
00:26:41 ◼ ► more hardware features but on that note because it leads into what you were saying the information's
00:26:46 ◼ ► quoting that the price is currently expected to be in the realm of three thousand dollars
00:26:51 ◼ ► which is I mean that's going to make it a niche product. Apple apparently also has an internal
00:27:03 ◼ ► Now what you could argue is there's a couple of things going on there is one that that that part
00:27:09 ◼ ► of the argument which we spoke about a couple of weeks ago that this is a project that exists now
00:27:14 ◼ ► to encourage development and take up for their future more refined AR glasses project but the
00:27:22 ◼ ► other part lending into what you were just saying is if you start with this you you will start
00:27:28 ◼ ► driving the cost down just because you're making it. You know this reminds me of prices of folding
00:27:33 ◼ ► phones right you know when Samsung came out with their first folding phones they were incredibly
00:27:39 ◼ ► expensive and then they've been bringing that price down and one of the ways they can bring
00:27:43 ◼ ► the price down is by actually making it right like it's a funny thing but you you can push
00:27:48 ◼ ► the development of the technology forward by actually producing the products but I mean three
00:27:54 ◼ ► thousand dollars is going to be a lot of money for something like this. It's not a real product
00:28:01 ◼ ► like it's not a real product and every time we cover this we say the same thing which is
00:28:07 ◼ ► it doesn't sound like apple right this is you mentioned the folding phones the way this product
00:28:11 ◼ ► is described is described like apple's going to make a folding phone and it's going to cost two
00:28:17 ◼ ► thousand dollars like all those other folding phones and it's not practical and almost nobody's
00:28:22 ◼ ► going to buy one and it's going to be fragile but it's the future eventually and we'll see where it
00:28:28 ◼ ► goes yeah but they don't do that that's the thing is apple tends not to do that with a product like
00:28:33 ◼ ► like that so because this isn't a new category that's why I keep casting it and and this is me
00:28:38 ◼ ► wanting apple to really cast it as being it's not a product for every day it is for maybe specific
00:28:45 ◼ ► high-end businesses I could see them getting some you know special effects artist up on stage or
00:28:51 ◼ ► something like that and saying oh well they can use it for this and for developers of AR and VR
00:28:57 ◼ ► applications to plan for the future and they can pitch it that way and say that you know here's a
00:29:02 ◼ ► product that that nobody wants except these very specific things it's weird but that's the only way
00:29:07 ◼ ► it makes sense to me like this is not a product for for regular people it's only really a product
00:29:12 ◼ ► that is saying this is where we're going and you know check back in two years when we make
00:29:17 ◼ ► a product that you can actually afford and you would actually want to use so apparently this
00:29:23 ◼ ► device will also feature eye tracking which is new I mean I can understand that making sense I
00:29:33 ◼ ► haven't seen that on any competitive products it's not something that I remember I can see how these
00:29:38 ◼ ► two things would go hand in hand and especially for AR glasses in the future I could imagine eye
00:29:43 ◼ ► tracking being an important part of that and multiple headbands that have features of their own
00:29:49 ◼ ► one headband has spatial audio built into it another with additional battery this is something
00:30:02 ◼ ► like well finally the swappable headbands are here right apple watch we talked about they
00:30:06 ◼ ► they obviously in the first apple watch were thinking that they might be able to do accessory
00:30:10 ◼ ► things in the bands or something and it just never happened you know obviously before they
00:30:14 ◼ ► even shipped it they were like no we're not going to do that but the idea that you could swap in
00:30:18 ◼ ► different parts makes sense I mean the the oculus quest which again I have very limited experience
00:30:24 ◼ ► with VR and AR stuff but like I got a I got the better headband for it and it's vastly improved
00:30:31 ◼ ► but I could see how you might want to use that as an accessory that actually could add more
00:30:34 ◼ ► functionality as you go for your three thousand you know it starts at three thousand dollars I
00:30:40 ◼ ► guess is what we're saying so the information have an illustration based on what they know
00:30:51 ◼ ► because that just straight up wouldn't work right like the way that the product looks you've got
00:30:56 ◼ ► the you know the screens at the front and then a band that goes around your head right but the
00:31:01 ◼ ► issue with the band is there's no support on it like it would just be completely rested right on
00:31:05 ◼ ► the back of your head which it just wouldn't stay on right so but ignoring the specifics of how the
00:31:12 ◼ ► illustration is drawn I can see this product existing right because the components in there
00:31:18 ◼ ► all look like you know it's like oh okay I can see this right you've got the straps look like
00:31:24 ◼ ► Apple watch straps yeah the hardware itself looks like the AirPods Max right with like the material
00:31:30 ◼ ► on the face and the part on the front and the buttons and stuff and whilst the illustration
00:31:35 ◼ ► I don't think is perfect I think it indicates how a product like this could come from Apple visually
00:31:42 ◼ ► because it is building on these other things that they make so you could see I mean in a genuine
00:31:47 ◼ ► that's what I think they will do it because they do this right like they like freak the AirPods Max
00:31:52 ◼ ► have the digital crown on them right like Apple build on what they know how to make and adapt it
00:31:58 ◼ ► so I could see it it's true the other I mean I reacted to that thing also saying that it seems
00:32:08 ◼ ► well it's kind of like an Apple watch man like all right I know how to draw that sure yeah nobody the
00:32:12 ◼ ► put the illustrator had never seen anything the illustrator just had somebody tell them something
00:32:17 ◼ ► to something to something to someone it's a game of telephone a little bit and so I you know we'll
00:32:22 ◼ ► we'll but but perhaps the person who saw it looked at the illustration said yeah that's kind of it but
00:32:28 ◼ ► it's also not a final product right it's a product that's not going to ship before next year
00:32:33 ◼ ► at the earliest so who knows what you know what of that is real I don't know it's it's a very weird
00:32:40 ◼ ► rumor I mean I buy this report the information has had a good track record like they had
00:32:45 ◼ ► a really great report on the magic keyboard for iPad Pro like it kind of seemed to come out of
00:32:51 ◼ ► nowhere and they had a lot of the details and they've had good reports in the past like I trust
00:32:56 ◼ ► this because as well going through it it's like whilst this all seems like so much I can very much
00:33:03 ◼ ► imagine this product in the way it's described coming from Apple well I mean since the first
00:33:09 ◼ ► rumors came out about this I had that moment where I realized Apple does all of this right Apple's got
00:33:15 ◼ ► sensors and cameras and screens and like it could do this product using what it's got from basically
00:33:22 ◼ ► the iPhone could it make an iPhone that you put on your face and the answer is absolutely it could
00:33:27 ◼ ► this seems to be more than that right like they they they don't if they had wanted to do that they
00:33:33 ◼ ► could have done that probably a few years ago and they chose not to they seem to want to take it to
00:33:38 ◼ ► another level I'm still also I just want to back up for a second and say I'm also still a little
00:33:43 ◼ ► surprised that Apple really is embracing VR in the way that this rumor says they are because
00:33:49 ◼ ► VR always felt like a weird fit to me for Apple like VR is basically yes there are Microsoft-y
00:33:57 ◼ ► business considerations but it's also a very much a gaming platform and unless Apple's going to come
00:34:05 ◼ ► out and say oh no this is for VR productivity and you're going to be able to like have a 9,000
00:34:11 ◼ ► inch iPad that you can crawl over in VR and touch things and all of that like failing something like
00:34:17 ◼ ► that a VR productivity kind of pitch which I'm I would be very skeptical of I always thought AR made
00:34:24 ◼ ► more sense for Apple right because then it's we're out in the real world and you're wearing glasses
00:34:29 ◼ ► and I wonder if this is just Apple realizing that it's going to be a while before the tech is good
00:34:35 ◼ ► enough to do AR in public and so the only way you know they pushed it as far forward as they can by
00:34:42 ◼ ► putting LIDAR sensors on iPhones and iPads and that the only way they're going to really keep
00:34:47 ◼ ► pushing this tech forward till they get to the point where AR is practical is by taking an
00:34:52 ◼ ► interim step to VR I just don't know how great a fit VR is for Apple because you know again
00:34:58 ◼ ► depending on what their pitch is productivity and stuff like that I don't know I'm skeptical of that
00:35:03 ◼ ► it's going to come back to games and now we've got you know virtual reality iPhone games is that
00:35:07 ◼ ► something that people are going to really want is that a product that Apple is you know whatever
00:35:13 ◼ ► really excel at and that's I guess that's that's what I struggle with this is I can kind of see
00:35:18 ◼ ► the end result here which is what's going to replace phones is probably like glasses that you
00:35:24 ◼ ► just wear and that all the contents of your phone are there in your vision when you want them and
00:35:28 ◼ ► you don't have to hold anything up and put anything in your pocket like okay I think that's there's a
00:35:34 ◼ ► strong argument that may be ultimately where where it goes in 10 years 20 years 30 years who knows
00:35:39 ◼ ► and that Apple wants to be a leader there so they don't lose their advantage that they have in the
00:35:44 ◼ ► smartphone market and that all of this is really in you know is about that and ultimately they
00:35:50 ◼ ► they need to ship some products along the way because I'm still struggling with sort of like
00:35:55 ◼ ► what what's the product people want here and it feels more like there isn't a product people
00:36:00 ◼ ► want here but they know it's headed for somewhere where there's a product people want and they're
00:36:04 ◼ ► just going to spend time and money creeping in that direction because they know you know
00:36:10 ◼ ► they know that that's AR is where they want to get seamless AR that makes you not look like an
00:36:16 ◼ ► income poop is where where they want to get but they're just not going to be able to get there
00:36:19 ◼ ► for 10 years and so they have to work at it in the meantime that's the best I can come up with
00:36:23 ◼ ► right now because it's a very strange whole category strange product strange set of rumors
00:36:28 ◼ ► I'm still not I don't I don't disbelieve them I think that it's probably happening I'm just
00:36:32 ◼ ► struggling to figure out why that actually leads into a question this was an ask upgrade question
00:36:38 ◼ ► but I wanted to talk about it here uh Ian wrote in and said it seems that the both of you consider
00:36:43 ◼ ► to be hesitant regarding AR use in daily life but what about specific use cases AR doesn't have to be
00:36:50 ◼ ► all day to be game changing and I think I tend to be I think maybe out of the two of us I am the
00:36:57 ◼ ► the most uh concerned about about AR and so right so here's my kind of thinking on it um
00:37:04 ◼ ► I like the idea of mixed reality which is what this headset is which is you can use it for VR
00:37:12 ◼ ► for whatever you use in VR and you can use it for AR for specific types of things like for example
00:37:18 ◼ ► you can imagine IKEA having a mixed reality AR app so you no longer need manuals right and it can
00:37:25 ◼ ► detect the pieces and show you how to put them together you know like HoloLens have done so many
00:37:30 ◼ ► great demos of like have your granddad help you with the plumbing because he can see it and you
00:37:37 ◼ ► can see it and then he can draw arrows and like you know great that gaming is great for AR and VR
00:37:42 ◼ ► maybe video I don't know um you know they like typically at home experiences for specific
00:37:49 ◼ ► purposes sure what concerns me is this future product the the actual real goal AR glasses
00:37:57 ◼ ► because that's where this is all moving to like Apple for sure I think even Facebook they're not
00:38:04 ◼ ► going into this to make a really great gaming system right they want the next smartphone
00:38:11 ◼ ► that's what this is all for you make a really good point that I think that's exactly it is even
00:38:15 ◼ ► though they are you know happy to have oculus in the short term as a leader in VR and gaming and
00:38:22 ◼ ► all those things the reason that Facebook is making that bet is the same reason that I theorized
00:38:26 ◼ ► for Apple doing all of this which is the end result which is AR glasses that replace your
00:38:31 ◼ ► smartphone essentially that are your view of all your data and your internet is just a pair of
00:38:36 ◼ ► glasses that you wear around and Zuckerberg is like he's said stuff like this in the past you know he
00:38:41 ◼ ► he's often quoted as saying that Facebook missed mobile and he always considers that a big mistake
00:38:48 ◼ ► in his career which is not gonna do it again no which is why he buys Instagram buys whatsapp
00:38:54 ◼ ► buys oculus he buys things that seem like they're becoming a thing to make sure that Facebook can do
00:38:59 ◼ ► it and like the AR glasses product feels like the purpose of them is to create a product that
00:39:08 ◼ ► you wear all the time like an Apple watch for your face or I mean ultimately an iPhone for your face
00:39:14 ◼ ► ultimately it's an iPhone for your face but yes it would probably start as in more of an Apple
00:39:22 ◼ ► that the eventual product that replaces the smartphone is it's not going to be fully formed
00:39:28 ◼ ► straight away it's I don't think we're going to get a something like that with the smartphone where
00:39:33 ◼ ► you could just replace your existing phone no and that's the where the Apple watch parallel is good
00:39:38 ◼ ► it's going to be a view of some of the data that's on your phone will migrate instead of being on your
00:39:44 ◼ ► wrist which is sort of what's happening with the Apple watch it will be in your vision basically
00:39:57 ◼ ► being in my vision like it feels too intrusive to me like I one of my one of the things that
00:40:04 ◼ ► stops me from wanting to wear an Apple watch all the time is I don't like the tapping right
00:40:10 ◼ ► I don't like technology being physically connected to me in a way that it can demand my attention
00:40:18 ◼ ► so like this is something that going backwards and forwards wearing an Apple watch you know like
00:40:23 ◼ ► I wear it for a period of time and then not that is one of the things that I've really come down
00:40:27 ◼ ► to it I look don't tell me that I can like not you Jason listen don't tell me I can turn off the
00:40:32 ◼ ► notifications and it's not because that's when it was the freaking point and we're in the device yeah
00:40:37 ◼ ► you know and this is you know we can back up here because although we're kind of tech forward kind
00:40:43 ◼ ► of people like phones it's the same issue right the people will say this about phones too like I
00:40:48 ◼ ► don't want my yeah but I can put my phone down and walk away from it that's true I and also my phone
00:40:54 ◼ ► this is almost like a Snell Talk question my phone is permanently silenced like I don't get noises
00:41:01 ◼ ► from my phone either because I don't want them to bug me I don't want I don't want it to bug me
00:41:06 ◼ ► so you're right this is this is something that's in your face all the time I my counter to that would
00:41:11 ◼ ► be they're going to need to do a good job of setting the controls so that you're not constantly
00:41:18 ◼ ► being distracted by this stuff and then you know you can see that they'll the first time they do
00:41:22 ◼ ► it they won't really do a good job and then they'll be like oh no no no we're gonna do better in the
00:41:25 ◼ ► future and there'll be a lot of op-eds written on the internet that are about like why are we
00:41:29 ◼ ► so distracted by our our AR glasses and like you can see I think the difference may be my this is
00:41:37 ◼ ► my optimism is that maybe smartphones especially have had such an impact on society that by the
00:41:44 ◼ ► time AR glasses become practical we will have remembered like oh right we need to think about
00:41:50 ◼ ► the impact these have on society before we deploy them because we saw what happened with smartphones
00:41:56 ◼ ► and we don't want to have that again I just don't think that any technology company including Apple
00:42:02 ◼ ► has the ability to make that decision well and the Apple watch would be your would be your example
00:42:07 ◼ ► right it's like even even with all the controls that you've got there's this feeling of like I
00:42:13 ◼ ► can't really control it and it's just in my way and you know I see it I mean even if I mean I
00:42:20 ◼ ► guess my counter-argument would be what if you because you're thinking about an Apple watch in
00:42:32 ◼ ► you didn't have anything with you but you could make a gesture or even lift up a hand like you
00:42:38 ◼ ► were holding a phone and you had a virtual phone like you could it could be that level of control
00:42:44 ◼ ► where you don't see anything unless you summon it and it's not overlaying as a normal matter of
00:42:50 ◼ ► course it's only when you summon it like there are there are I don't think it has to be bad but I
00:42:55 ◼ ► think you are right in that that's going to be the barrier to acceptance of this stuff is that you're
00:43:01 ◼ ► you know you're taking over my one of my senses basically to put your garbage in it I don't want
00:43:07 ◼ ► that I just think that the addiction that we have with our devices will be too strong if it's there
00:43:20 ◼ ► in front of us constantly I think you're right I think and that's what I was saying is I think
00:43:26 ◼ ► there are some societal dangers here that we're all going to have to to grapple with but in terms
00:43:33 ◼ ► of like Ian's question about hesitant regarding AR use in daily life it's like well first off
00:43:39 ◼ ► I do believe that this is the thing that's going to replace the smartphone I really do I really
00:43:44 ◼ ► do believe that in the end there will be some technology that will make it possible for you to
00:43:49 ◼ ► have what we currently have on a piece of glass on our wrist or in our pocket just be in the air in
00:43:56 ◼ ► front of us and that based on our eye movement and based on our hand movement we're going to be able
00:44:01 ◼ ► to whether it's a virtual phone virtual tablet or just a floating screen in front of us you know
00:44:07 ◼ ► there are going to be ways to do it where you have all that data and it's not going to start out that
00:44:11 ◼ ► way it's going to start out much more limited but I do think that this is at least if not if I'm not
00:44:16 ◼ ► certain I would say at least it's got the potential to be the thing that finally actually replaces the
00:44:21 ◼ ► smartphone as the thing that everybody uses it has that potential to be like your smartphone but all
00:44:27 ◼ ► you're doing is wearing a pair of glasses everybody's wearing a pair of glasses and that's how we all
00:44:32 ◼ ► have it are there societal implications to that you bet there are there are enormous societal
00:44:38 ◼ ► implications to that but and we should be concerned about it but I don't think that's going to
00:44:43 ◼ ► necessarily stop it from happening and you know to get back to your original point this is absolutely
00:44:48 ◼ ► why Facebook and Apple and every other tech company are looking at this stuff is because
00:44:53 ◼ ► nobody wants to be left on the side of the road when the next smartphone happens because you can
00:44:58 ◼ ► see what it did for Apple's business to be to have a seat at the table for that it's like I'm not
00:45:03 ◼ ► writing it off like I am a technology person right like I love this stuff and I really want to see
00:45:10 ◼ ► what Apple will do with this and I'm sure they will create something that will excite me in the
00:45:16 ◼ ► way that their products do excite me but I have these very strong feelings about this stuff and
00:45:26 ◼ ► I really hope that these concerns will be addressed evidently in whatever they do but my gut feeling
00:45:37 ◼ ► about this type of technology is currently not a good one so we're going to talk about this a lot
00:45:45 ◼ ► over the coming years but that's kind of like as a refresher because I don't know if I've gone into
00:45:51 ◼ ► detail this much on the show about kind of like why I think this technology is it concerns me and
00:45:58 ◼ ► I do mention it a lot and I'm mentioning it more so that's kind of where we stand on it.
00:46:03 ◼ ► No I think that's good I think and again this is the source of my optimism I guess it's also
00:46:09 ◼ ► the source of some of my pessimism which is I do feel like the smartphone thing happened with
00:46:15 ◼ ► no real thought given to how it was going to impact society and my hope is that the next
00:46:21 ◼ ► thing when it comes along we will have enough collective memory of what just happened that we
00:46:28 ◼ ► take some steps to changing our approach to it the fear would be that we won't remember all the
00:46:34 ◼ ► things that happened and we'll just rush out the products that completely break and you know weirdly
00:46:41 ◼ ► change our social interactions and everything that happens in the world and only after five or ten
00:46:47 ◼ ► years of that will we you know realize that we need to do parental controls and time tracking
00:46:53 ◼ ► and other things in order to make to try and fix all the things that the new tech broke.
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00:47:55 ◼ ► and the Cheesecake Factory. Jason I know you're a big fan of DoorDash can you tell me something
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00:48:09 ◼ ► of a lot of issues in terms of going out in public and you're trying to minimize your exposure and
00:48:14 ◼ ► that's definitely been the case for us in California the last few months. The idea that you
00:48:20 ◼ ► don't want to make dinner every night and you can kind of pre-order a dinner from a local restaurant
00:48:25 ◼ ► and have it just sort of show up at your door with a knock and you didn't have to go outside
00:48:28 ◼ ► and I'm not always gonna be that lazy but sometimes I'm that lazy and I just want the food to appear
00:48:34 ◼ ► and we all are working out of our house and never leaving it to go anywhere and then there's a knock
00:48:39 ◼ ► at the door and that food that we ordered earlier and the day has arrived and it's a it's a nice
00:48:44 ◼ ► change of pace too. So you know there's a lot of lot of there's a lot to be said from going on the
00:48:48 ◼ ► internet and tapping a few things on an order page and having food arrive at your house warm.
00:48:53 ◼ ► It's pretty good. For a limited time listeners of this show can get 25% off and zero delivery
00:49:00 ◼ ► fees on their first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and use the code
00:49:05 ◼ ► UPGRADE2021 and something special and new for our Australian listeners if you use the code UPGRADEAUS
00:49:11 ◼ ► so that's upgrade A U S you will also get that 25% off at up to $10 and zero delivery fees in your
00:49:20 ◼ ► first order just download the DoorDash app in the App Store use the code UPGRADE2021 in the US and
00:49:25 ◼ ► UPGRADEAUS in Australia. One more time that's UPGRADE2021 or UPGRADEAUS for 25% off your first
00:49:33 ◼ ► order with DoorDash subject to change terms apply. Our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this
00:49:38 ◼ ► show and Real AFM. I'm happy to have something specific for the Australians. Isn't that nice?
00:49:49 ◼ ► iOS and macOS betas are out. This came out I think just after we recorded last week. The thing that
00:49:56 ◼ ► people are most excited about with iOS 14.5 and watchOS 7.4 is it enables iPhone unlocking without
00:50:03 ◼ ► face ID when you're wearing a mask. You've tried this out right? I have. What do you think? I
00:50:11 ◼ ► immediately installed these betas and it's it's quite a thing because you got to install the iOS
00:50:16 ◼ ► beta and the watchOS beta to get it to work and it works. It's pretty great. In fact, I didn't
00:50:23 ◼ ► realize this. I actually take my car in for service and I'm standing wearing my mask in the in the
00:50:31 ◼ ► line or I guess I'm waiting for the guy to finish keying in whatever he needs to key in so that I
00:50:36 ◼ ► can pay and go and I just completely without thinking took my phone out of my pocket and
00:50:43 ◼ ► flipped it open and I thought oh mask and then my watch tapped me on the wrist and it unlocked and
00:50:49 ◼ ► I was using my my phone I was like oh real-world test of this thing and it's pretty great I mean
00:50:58 ◼ ► I've seen some people say oh well you know of course it's just for people with the Apple watch
00:51:02 ◼ ► well Apple's trying essentially this is something Apple's trying to use whatever tools it might have
00:51:08 ◼ ► at its disposal to make it easier to unlock your phone when you're wearing a mask and I applaud it
00:51:14 ◼ ► I wish it had happened you know last year but it works and you know if you're an Apple watch where
00:51:23 ◼ ► it's great news right it's gonna solve a problem then all of us are facing and I think in the long
00:51:30 ◼ ► run there's gonna be more mask wearing and there are parts of the world where there there's
00:51:33 ◼ ► traditionally been a lot of mask wearing certain times of the year for sure so in general I think
00:51:38 ◼ ► it's a good feature to add regardless of where Apple goes you know eventually maybe they bring
00:51:43 ◼ ► back touch ID as well but you know we're gonna have face ID phones and service for a long time
00:51:48 ◼ ► now I I've been trying to work out the answer to this as to how it's doing the unlocking and I
00:51:57 ◼ ► don't know if you know like is it doing anything to recognize that it's Jason like is it doing a
00:52:02 ◼ ► partial scan and so top of your face I my understanding is that it's it's at least detecting
00:52:11 ◼ ► that you're wearing a mask I talked to somebody who said that they tried I think was Dan Morin
00:52:17 ◼ ► tried to like put some like a napkin up in front of his face or something and it didn't work like
00:52:23 ◼ ► it may actually have they may have done some training on masks so that they get the sense of
00:52:28 ◼ ► like yeah I've got a partial match and and it may actually try to be partially matching what it knows
00:52:34 ◼ ► the face is and then also recognizing mask I I'm unclear on exactly what the behavior is here I'm
00:52:39 ◼ ► hoping that Apple publish a white paper or something I would like that too a better idea of
00:52:45 ◼ ► exactly what it's doing because I really want to know and and I'm not trying it's not for being
00:52:50 ◼ ► alarmist but it's like what is the security level now like how secure is this is this more or less
00:52:59 ◼ ► secure than my passcode like I don't know I mean trick because like the thing about face ID is just
00:53:04 ◼ ► how incredibly secure this is yeah well the truth is though it's by metrically authenticating you
00:53:10 ◼ ► based on your Apple watch being on your wrist so you will have either had to put in the Apple watch
00:53:16 ◼ ► password or have unlocked your phone with face ID or a passcode before while it was on your wrist to
00:53:25 ◼ ► get it to work so that's your passport right is the fact that you've got just as it is on the Mac
00:53:31 ◼ ► if you're using Apple watch to unlock things or Apple pay on the Mac is it the unlocked constantly
00:53:39 ◼ ► on your wrist Apple watch is your proof that you are who you are but it's like I'm intrigued though
00:53:45 ◼ ► like how how close does the watch need to be like for any and look these are stupid things to go
00:53:53 ◼ ► through it has to be closed they didn't they didn't specify but it has to be closed so they're doing
00:53:58 ◼ ► time of flight for sure which again is something that they've done with Apple watch unlock for a
00:54:02 ◼ ► bunch of other stuff too it that's how the Mac Apple watch unlock work so it's got to be very
00:54:07 ◼ ► close to the phone and it taps your wrist when it unlocks so if you had a bad person who within a
00:54:14 ◼ ► mask who took your phone away from you and then tried to unlock it even if they were close enough
00:54:19 ◼ ► to unlock it you would you would know right because you would get a tap that said I just
00:54:25 ◼ ► unlocked a phone and so you couldn't be caught unawares by that they seem to have stepped through
00:54:30 ◼ ► this as much as possible so in the end I will say if you've got a four-digit code on your watch and
00:54:35 ◼ ► a sophisticated password on your phone it means that you might be able to get into a phone by
00:54:44 ◼ ► stealing a phone and a watch and breaking the four-digit code on the watch right like that
00:54:48 ◼ ► would become your week your weaker link there I guess and I don't know whether it's trying to do
00:54:53 ◼ ► a partial match on your face and you know the robber doesn't match or whether it would would
00:54:58 ◼ ► succeed that part I don't know yeah and it's again I'm not doing this to paint these wacky and wild
00:55:05 ◼ ► scenarios which of course could happen to some people you know there's definitely something to
00:55:10 ◼ ► be said about that and but it's more I'm just intrigued you know like so I do hope that Apple
00:55:16 ◼ ► talk about it eventually right like what is the the distance and what is the kind of like the owner
00:55:25 ◼ ► of the security that kind of thing it's just intriguing to me I'm happy to hear it works I'm
00:55:30 ◼ ► surprised that it's now you know it's been a year like like it's not you know I'm sure this is very
00:55:39 ◼ ► difficult but it's not like this type of note this type of authentication is completely new to Apple
00:55:46 ◼ ► because you know that the watch and the phone on have an unlock between the two of them the the
00:55:52 ◼ ► watch unlocks the Mac my understanding and I think Gruber was the one who wrote about this is that
00:55:57 ◼ ► the the challenge was that they have a one-direction flow of authentication here which is you open your
00:56:04 ◼ ► iPhone when you're wearing your watch and your watch unlocks which is very convenient right that
00:56:09 ◼ ► it's nice but now they need to use the watch as proof that the phone is authenticated and they
00:56:17 ◼ ► already built it the other way and so at least according to what I read that was extra complexity
00:56:23 ◼ ► because you can't have it you know you have to you have to make sure that the flow is only happening
00:56:29 ◼ ► in one direction because you know you can't you're like well they unlocked this and now they unlock
00:56:33 ◼ ► that and now we're gonna unlock this again it's like well no how does so so there's some extra
00:56:37 ◼ ► work that that needs to go on there and I think honestly I think the big issue with all of these
00:56:41 ◼ ► features is that they want to make sure that they're really locked down security wise right
00:56:45 ◼ ► they any if any of these features becomes the hole by which people can break into an iPhone then they
00:56:51 ◼ ► failed so I think that a lot goes into the security stuff and that it makes these features slower to
00:56:58 ◼ ► arrive. iPad OS 14.5 got a horizontal boot screen finally so yeah I haven't seen that but um but
00:57:08 ◼ ► great like we we have been lamenting now they just need to change the logo on the back of it
00:57:13 ◼ ► we've been lamenting at least that on the on the magic keyboard the logo is the right way around
00:57:20 ◼ ► right like I always view the iPad as a horizontal device and not a vertical device but but yes
00:57:26 ◼ ► apparently for the first time you know when you boot if it's in horizontal orientation it shows
00:57:32 ◼ ► the Apple the right way up that's that's fun. And today there are reports that it was discovered by
00:57:38 ◼ ► intrepid users and we're on reddit that iOS 14.5 has the like the bones for changing your default
00:57:47 ◼ ► music app with Siri so you can ask Siri to play a song and it'll ask you which music app you want
00:57:54 ◼ ► to use and you can choose which ones so you could choose Spotify etc so I'm pleased that they're
00:58:01 ◼ ► adding this this is something that I want to see this roll out more and more and more to more types
00:58:06 ◼ ► of applications like not just the the small handful that Apple originally ordained at WWDC yep I want
00:58:13 ◼ ► to see this come out further and wider different types of apps. Big Sur 11.3 also came out you can
00:58:22 ◼ ► set home pod pairs as the default audio output if this is anything like Apple TV get ready for
00:58:28 ◼ ► issues oh my god Jason it's driving me bananas it's so bad it's this feature is so bad with the
00:58:36 ◼ ► Apple TV right like when it works is awesome because I have my two amazing speakers but every
00:58:41 ◼ ► day I have these issues where it pauses it gets out sync the audio starts playing on my TV and at
00:58:49 ◼ ► the home pods for a few seconds and then I you know I have to double quit the like after double
00:58:55 ◼ ► tap quit the app sometimes to get it to work I've had times where the audio gets out of sync and I
00:59:01 ◼ ► press home and the audio of the show is still playing until I restart the home pod like I have
00:59:07 ◼ ► so many problems with this feature I genuinely think I'm one of the only people in the world
00:59:12 ◼ ► that uses it I love it when it works but it really doesn't every day they it was fine for a while and
00:59:22 ◼ ► then it got bad again so I appreciate that Apple like Mac OS hasn't had support for you setting up
00:59:30 ◼ ► home pod as an output and it's so frustrating because it seems like it would make sense to
00:59:34 ◼ ► have a stereo pair home pod as your output my concern here is you know it's related to your
00:59:42 ◼ ► problems which is there's a lot of sound stuff going on in like Mac OS I wrote about this in
00:59:54 ◼ ► is good because it allows us to use things like audio hijack and you know there's so many reasons
00:59:58 ◼ ► why it's good but it's way behind in terms of things like airplay to support and output to a
01:00:07 ◼ ► stereo pair of home pods and and there's other issues I have had huge issues with Mac OS and
01:00:14 ◼ ► air pods where they disconnect or they go into the weird like phone profile mode it's so bad I
01:00:25 ◼ ► don't know why this happens and there and there's all these issues there so I updated to the big
01:00:31 ◼ ► server 11.3 beta because I wanted to try this stuff out and it was a disaster I it just couldn't
01:00:38 ◼ ► play audio at all it would try and not and I couldn't change it and I couldn't open the sound
01:00:42 ◼ ► preferences pain it would just never open and I reverted back down to 11.2 and said well I'll see
01:00:49 ◼ ► you next time like I so I'm excited about the prospect of this but it sounds like this beta is
01:00:55 ◼ ► going to just break audio for a while until they fix all of this stuff and I hope that they don't
01:01:01 ◼ ► ship the final 11.3 with it as I mean obviously it's developed beta 1 but at the same time it was
01:01:06 ◼ ► super broken and I have concerns that there's already stuff that's really kind of broken and
01:01:11 ◼ ► sound in big Sur involving the air pods and I'll just put this on the list you know that said in
01:01:17 ◼ ► that macworld story I'll just mention it here I did have a moment because I'm using my m1 MacBook
01:01:24 ◼ ► Air more and I'm using their pods with it and discovering all these things that are broken and
01:01:29 ◼ ► I did have a very funny moment that happened that I wrote about in that story which is you know I'll
01:01:37 ◼ ► sit on the backyard and I'm writing on my iPad and I'm listening to music over my headphones and
01:01:42 ◼ ► then I'll close up my iPad and come inside and the music is still playing and I did that on the
01:01:47 ◼ ► Mac where I'm like I'm listening to music and I'm gonna go get something and I close the Mac and I
01:01:51 ◼ ► walk and the moment I close the Mac and music stops and I thought oh right sleep action sleep
01:02:00 ◼ ► like that anymore right on Apple silicon that doesn't the old-style sleep doesn't really make
01:02:04 ◼ ► sense anymore they've got the low energy cores and and power nap is always turned on and I had
01:02:10 ◼ ► that it was just a moment of realization where it's like yeah actually if I'm listening to music
01:02:13 ◼ ► and I close the screen you should just keep playing the music right like you should my iPad keeps
01:02:21 ◼ ► playing the music my iPhone keeps playing the music why wouldn't my Mac keep playing the music
01:02:24 ◼ ► and I suspect that that's a direction that they're going is that these Apple silicon Macs are gonna
01:02:29 ◼ ► end up having a very different conception of being asleep that's more like an iPad or an iPhone but
01:02:34 ◼ ► for now it just you know I've got a list of sound things and music things and other things with a
01:02:40 ◼ ► with a Mac OS that it even though it's more advanced in so many ways than iOS it's also so
01:02:47 ◼ ► behind in so many ways so maybe maybe Big Sur 11.3 will get better and solve some of these problems
01:02:56 ◼ ► but don't don't upgrade now I just don't don't do it so I want to move on to talk about ecam core
01:03:04 ◼ ► recorder for Skype this is very inside but there's no way we aren't talking about this so ecam are a
01:03:13 ◼ ► company that have long made audio based tools for the Mac one of their tools core recorder for Skype
01:03:20 ◼ ► loved by podcasters the world over yeah is going away I should say you can't read a bunch of
01:03:26 ◼ ► different utilities they made a really great utility to let you print to two printers that
01:03:31 ◼ ► didn't support air prints and they make and they make ecam live which is video it's like live stream
01:03:37 ◼ ► video software that's actually really great and it's Mac only and it's beautifully beautifully
01:03:41 ◼ ► done but call recorder for Skype for more than a decade has been the tool that basically every
01:03:46 ◼ ► podcaster started to use because everybody used Skype in the early days and how do you record and
01:03:51 ◼ ► here's a little tool that will automatically record your calls so that you can use those
01:03:55 ◼ ► recordings to make a podcast and last week I I knew that it wasn't working on Apple silicon so
01:04:01 ◼ ► I just did a check last week to see if they had an update on it and I and they linked to a tech note
01:04:07 ◼ ► and the tech note said we will not update this for Apple silicon and I emailed them and I said does
01:04:13 ◼ ► this mean that you're killing this product and they wrote back and said yes that's that's it
01:04:17 ◼ ► it's the end so I wrote about it apparently nobody else had noticed and that sort of like
01:04:22 ◼ ► a thing and then Gruber linked to it and then we you know they ended up writing a blog post
01:04:27 ◼ ► because they did after the fact they did it's just putting it in a tech note I was disappointed by
01:04:32 ◼ ► that like a company can decide to do whatever they want to do but if that was the decision that they
01:04:37 ◼ ► made the way that they communicated it was poor right just like it's in our support right yeah
01:04:44 ◼ ► they have my email right email me tell me I want to know so I can start to make decisions but they
01:04:51 ◼ ► wrote they ended up writing a great blog post they spoke I mean and as well anyone's used this that
01:04:57 ◼ ► uses this product that the last year they have had horrible problems of Skype so Skype will update
01:05:02 ◼ ► kills core recorder it's a reinstall like there's been some issues right so I think you know maybe
01:05:08 ◼ ► maybe they know the writings on the wall for them yeah you know and it's not fair to say like this
01:05:13 ◼ ► isn't the case where it's like well yeah but they haven't done any work on this product in a while
01:05:16 ◼ ► it was obviously not like I feel for them because they they when QuickTime the old QuickTime API's
01:05:22 ◼ ► went away they wrote a brand new that were about a new set of movie tools to edit the stuff and they
01:05:29 ◼ ► they did a new container file format for it so that it will continue to work without QuickTime
01:05:33 ◼ ► and they have made an effort to keep it working with Skype even though Skype tries to kill it
01:05:39 ◼ ► every single time it updates to the point where now it they actually intercept when you launch
01:05:45 ◼ ► Skype and say you need to reinstall call recorder now because it's not installed like they they they
01:05:51 ◼ ► made a real effort but I do feel like maybe part of this is that the writing was on the wall that
01:05:55 ◼ ► Skype really didn't want them to be there and that something in Apple silicon perhaps was the the
01:06:03 ◼ ► final the straw that broke the camel's back basically and they're like okay we're not gonna
01:06:06 ◼ ► do this anymore it was possible that it needed a rewrite and they just didn't want to put that
01:06:11 ◼ ► time in well they're spending all their time on live and live is a much better like growth
01:06:15 ◼ ► opportunity for them going forward right yeah it's in a field that people care about now which is
01:06:22 ◼ ► and they should be putting all their resources to that because there's lots of things it doesn't do
01:06:26 ◼ ► that it could do and it you know but it's already a fairly impressive app so I get it I totally get
01:06:33 ◼ ► it yeah but I would just say like I would pay them a stupid amount of money as a subscription
01:06:38 ◼ ► to keep using this app but never nevertheless like what made call recorders so good was that
01:06:49 ◼ ► it's perfect backup because if me and Jason are on Skype it's recording it's recorded it's recording
01:06:55 ◼ ► my correct microphone I don't have to set my microphone that so that was one of the huge
01:07:01 ◼ ► things about call recorder and why I encouraged it to use is not only did it auto record so you
01:07:05 ◼ ► didn't have to remember to press record which people that was a point of failure also when you
01:07:11 ◼ ► set have somebody record in like QuickTime player which is great they have to select the right
01:07:15 ◼ ► microphone Skype call recorder if you knew Skype call recorder was running and you heard their
01:07:20 ◼ ► voice coming over the mic right microphone you knew you were gonna get the right microphone and
01:07:24 ◼ ► that's not the case with with other tools where you don't have that extra point of validation so
01:07:31 ◼ ► you know again if we were building a workflow today for podcasts would we would we do it that
01:07:36 ◼ ► way no but at that point everybody had Skype Skype was you know Skype was free everybody had it and
01:07:41 ◼ ► it was a plug-in that made the recording stuff way easier in an era where it was kind of hard
01:07:47 ◼ ► to get people to record their own audio and so it became the core of a workflow that that survived
01:07:56 ◼ ► for more than a decade really I mean we're all using Skype for podcasting before Microsoft bought
01:08:04 ◼ ► Skype right so like it and back then long time ago it was the only thing realistically it really was
01:08:10 ◼ ► to do what we're doing and then you know once you wrote about a piece called the mortality of
01:08:17 ◼ ► software which is such a but like strong title but really points out is like once you are in a
01:08:23 ◼ ► workflow you don't want to change it like if something's working don't disrupt it and you
01:08:29 ◼ ► keep adding little bits on top of it so you create this thing that is the word I used is is
01:08:34 ◼ ► bricolage which is a fun word but it's like you just kind of like a bunch of garbage just kind of
01:08:38 ◼ ► gets piled together but like it's you've placed all there and it works for you and it's built up
01:08:43 ◼ ► over a decade and it's it's like a beaver dam or something right it's like I put all this stuff
01:08:47 ◼ ► together all these sticks and everything and now I've got it and then and so you keep using it
01:08:53 ◼ ► because it's it is this is where you know everybody all these workflows have inertia right it's like
01:08:58 ◼ ► well I've been using it so I'm gonna keep using it but that's where the inertia comes from also
01:09:02 ◼ ► is that you you keep assembling this structure of stuff that is this is how I do it and then you
01:09:08 ◼ ► have a case like this where it's like yeah you think that that part is gone it's just it's or
01:09:13 ◼ ► and it's not gone it still works but it works on Intel Macs and and doesn't work on Apple silicon
01:09:18 ◼ ► Macs so the writings on the wall right it's it's if you buy an Intel or an Apple silicon Mac you
01:09:22 ◼ ► can't use call recorder so thus it's basically over so for me my typical feeling about this
01:09:29 ◼ ► stuff is when something changes when the writing is on the wall I want to move as soon as possible
01:09:33 ◼ ► yeah I don't want to find myself in a situation where I'm now stuck without a plan well or like
01:09:40 ◼ ► here let me give you an example which is for various reasons I am recording today on my MacBook
01:09:46 ◼ ► Air so I can't use that like here it is I can't use call recorder because I'm on an Apple silicon
01:09:52 ◼ ► MacBook Air so luckily this had happened well this is and this is my point is that so if I was relying
01:09:59 ◼ ► on a workflow that had it at its core I would have to every time I used this different computer I'd
01:10:04 ◼ ► be like oh can't use that got to come up with something else and yeah it's been a backup
01:10:08 ◼ ► recording for a while for us right like audio hijack has been the primary recording for most
01:10:13 ◼ ► of the podcasters I know for a while but there's still lots of people who just rely on call
01:10:18 ◼ ► recorder and we still use it as mine like yeah audio hijack is my backup core core is your backup
01:10:24 ◼ ► yeah the one I used yeah so so uh but but now that we know what's going away it's like well I
01:10:31 ◼ ► can't stay with it I need to come up with I need to find a new solution that will work and follow
01:10:36 ◼ ► me across every Mac that I use so as of today upgrade is now recorded over zoom that's true
01:10:45 ◼ ► so now why zoom you may ask and please don't stop you stop right now with that feedback where you're
01:10:53 ◼ ► telling me to use whatever app is Chrome based or whatever you know the reason we're using zoom
01:11:01 ◼ ► there's actually quite a few reasons we both already have paid accounts yep so we already
01:11:07 ◼ ► have accounts it's an app which I want I don't want to use anything in a web browser I just
01:11:13 ◼ ► don't want to do that I don't want to use any app that is just for podcasting because there's a lot
01:11:21 ◼ ► of VC money being poured into podcasting right now mm-hmm and that bubbles gonna burst at some point
01:11:26 ◼ ► so I don't want to put my all my eggs into a basket of some application that might go away so
01:11:33 ◼ ► I want to use something like Skype which is we're not using it for what is intended for which probably
01:11:38 ◼ ► means it's gonna stick around and I'm honestly you look at any kind of app right now zoom is
01:11:43 ◼ ► here for the long haul because yeah like it or not it's gonna be here yeah yeah exactly zoom now
01:11:49 ◼ ► means meeting in the same way that Google now means such right like it it's embedded but one
01:11:55 ◼ ► of the great things about zoom compared to all of the other things out there before you say to me
01:11:59 ◼ ► what about slack what about FaceTime what about but it has built-in recording into the application
01:12:06 ◼ ► and it does it automatically it does and the reason that I use it also it works on its cross-platform
01:12:14 ◼ ► including mobile which is you know there are some non cross-platform solutions or just Mac and
01:12:22 ◼ ► Windows and I because I've been looking for tools for this for a while now of like we is there
01:12:27 ◼ ► another way to do this is there an alternative to Skype and I you know I can't get everything that
01:12:33 ◼ ► I want but one of the things that I think you need to constantly be looking at is does it work on an
01:12:38 ◼ ► iPad and just work because that would be good like it would be really good if it also worked on an
01:12:42 ◼ ► iPad and an iPhone because sometimes you do need to call somebody who only has one of those devices
01:12:46 ◼ ► but the way zooms recording works and this is why I've been using it for podcasts for a couple of
01:12:51 ◼ ► years for the incomparable is although it makes a the recording that it makes is not local on on
01:12:59 ◼ ► like everybody's end so it's got potentially some like bandwidth cloud-based artifacts in it you
01:13:06 ◼ ► know if they've got low bandwidth you may get dropouts and things like that but that said it
01:13:11 ◼ ► the recording it hands you as the host is an individual track for every single person on the
01:13:17 ◼ ► call and that's super important if you're gonna edit audio after the fact mm-hmm so that's the
01:13:24 ◼ ► perfect it's actually better than call recorder which will only hand you your personal track and
01:13:29 ◼ ► then the audio of everybody else on the call now for two people it's fairly simple but if you have
01:13:34 ◼ ► three people like connected or you have a four people like clockwise and then you have incomparable
01:13:39 ◼ ► which has like 90 people on it at one time it helps to have that it's a huge boost to have that
01:13:45 ◼ ► and and right now I'd say zoom is the best in class because of that even though there are lots
01:13:51 ◼ ► of issues with zoom for podcasting that's sort of what I had already settled on and since I have a
01:13:56 ◼ ► paid account you have a paid account you only need one the whole only the host needs to have a paid
01:13:59 ◼ ► account but for those reasons I think zoom sounds better than Skype - honestly I think it actually
01:14:05 ◼ ► sounds better while we're you sound much clearer to me today and yeah then I'm used to mm-hmm
01:14:11 ◼ ► likewise I mean I am now using audio hijack now is my main recorder and zoom is the backup as the
01:14:19 ◼ ► backup I want something that has a backup and I'm very you know I'm very happy to have a solution
01:14:26 ◼ ► that I'm already using and already paying for right so mm-hmm but it's just it's a shame yeah
01:14:30 ◼ ► and and I'm open to change right like I I would love to find that ideal solution that is runs
01:14:39 ◼ ► cross-platform including mobile and records everybody's files locally and then transmits
01:14:44 ◼ ► them over the cloud like I could come up with a list and I have and there's nothing that does
01:14:48 ◼ ► all of them right now and if we throw your web browser thing in the mix then it's there's really
01:14:53 ◼ ► nothing that does all of them but zoom comes the closest at this point and so that's where we are
01:14:58 ◼ ► for now but you know and my just to bring this back around to something that isn't podcasting
01:15:03 ◼ ► inside baseball it is this is the story of you being a computer user right is a new platform
01:15:10 ◼ ► comes out or a new operating system comes out and you want to update but this app that you're using
01:15:14 ◼ ► like I think a lot of people went through this with the 32-bit apocalypse right where you had
01:15:20 ◼ ► an app that you've been using and it wasn't really being updated and you had that moment where you
01:15:24 ◼ ► thought oh no I can't use it anymore which is I think your approach of like well if it's not
01:15:30 ◼ ► gonna blast into the future I'm gonna get rid of it now is is another way to approach that which is
01:15:36 ◼ ► I'm not gonna wait for the moment where I want to do a an update to a new Apple operating system and
01:15:41 ◼ ► now it breaks or in this case I don't want to buy a new Mac and realize that now my call recorder
01:15:45 ◼ ► setup is broken because the new Mac is Apple silicon and so now I can't use it anymore but
01:15:51 ◼ ► you know I got a little philosophical on that piece the truth is that you know nothing is forever
01:15:56 ◼ ► and software generally I mean there's software the institutional software that will last forever but
01:16:01 ◼ ► most of the stuff that we do it we use is like more independent kind of software smaller batch
01:16:06 ◼ ► software and that stuff does come and go because the people who make it come and go and their
01:16:11 ◼ ► livelihoods change and they or they get retired or our friend James Thompson pointed out the there's
01:16:17 ◼ ► a literally a story of somebody who wrote a piece of software for the Mac who got hit by a bus he
01:16:22 ◼ ► literally got hit by a bus and he was fine he was fine but like it's not even a metaphorical bus
01:16:27 ◼ ► like we're all people and a more on a more happy note they could also just choose to retire right
01:16:33 ◼ ► like if the author of your favorite software says I'm out of here I'm gonna go on a beach somewhere
01:16:37 ◼ ► thanks for all the you know license fees I'm out of here I'm retired that's it right that's it so
01:16:45 ◼ ► all you can really do is accept that change will happen try to be open to it view it as an
01:16:55 ◼ ► opportunity like I did in the end I think this is an opportunity we could have switched to zoom a
01:16:59 ◼ ► long time ago and I think it would have been fine I think it would have been good but this was the
01:17:04 ◼ ► opportunity to do it and so here we are and and I'll be open to other opportunities but I think
01:17:11 ◼ ► that's all you can do because in the end you know it nothing is forever and and maybe it's good to
01:17:18 ◼ ► look at that beaver dam of workflow that you built up over 10 years and go well like I had a moment
01:17:25 ◼ ► where I was super sad about call recorder dying and it was followed by a moment of well of
01:17:30 ◼ ► opportunity which was like oh well with call recorder not in the mix like I can revisit all
01:17:39 ◼ ► sorts of assumptions with that because that was the base assumption and with it gone well it was
01:17:45 ◼ ► based on Skype being the only tool available and then everything came from there but with Skype
01:17:50 ◼ ► call recorder gone like Skype's been lousy for a long time we've been like yeah but call recorder
01:17:54 ◼ ► so you know in the end it is an opportunity for change and nobody likes change but it's inevitable
01:17:59 ◼ ► so might as well go with it this episode is brought to you by hover one of our longest running
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01:18:17 ◼ ► business starts of a domain name for so many entrepreneurs hover is that first step it is
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01:18:50 ◼ ► also what I like is you can just type in a bunch of words or hover and they'll do their best to try
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01:19:32 ◼ ► to use I love just how easy it is to forward a domain somewhere else most of the domains that I
01:19:37 ◼ ► buy I'm forwarding to somewhere you know like I have a cortex much calm mic dot live these are
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01:20:32 ◼ ► out today's show the first one comes from Nick and Nick wants to know Jason do you use finger
01:20:37 ◼ ► guns when you make the pew pew sound absolutely not I just lean into the microphone and the lasers
01:20:43 ◼ ► emerge do you ever have any kind of imagination that goes along with it like is there an image
01:20:47 ◼ ► in your head or is it just so built into you now it's like just like a pavlovian response it's just
01:20:58 ◼ ► that it's like the theme song for ask upgrade is my lasers I'm happy that you think of it that way
01:21:03 ◼ ► Ryan asks do you still think that the displays on future max will feature rounded corners considering
01:21:10 ◼ ► the design changes that came with big sir yes do you think we're gonna get that this year with the
01:21:19 ◼ ► new if like any Mac has a new design you think it will get well the round the first thing is
01:21:24 ◼ ► they could they could just put the rounded corners on in Big Sur right like they could just do it
01:21:28 ◼ ► there there's software that you can get that will just round the corners for you right like you can
01:21:34 ◼ ► do that if you want I think it looks better with the rounded corners to be honest but you know I
01:21:38 ◼ ► I'm it's a direction Apple is going with its other hardware so I think it would not you know surprise
01:21:45 ◼ ► me at all that they would do that on the Mac they could do it the software instead of hardware but
01:21:50 ◼ ► yeah I think it looks better the little pixels in the corners I don't want them I don't want to see
01:21:56 ◼ ► like this couple of everything is rounded in Big Sur except the corners of the screen yeah so I
01:22:04 ◼ ► don't get it and and and not just in Big Sur in the window but then you look at the outside of the
01:22:09 ◼ ► displays and they're all curved on the laptops so it's it's a very weird sharp edge amid many curves
01:22:16 ◼ ► but it's possible that they're waiting to reduce the bezel because that bezel could get a lot
01:22:22 ◼ ► smaller I was looking at the my MacBook Air the other day and thinking you know from the
01:22:25 ◼ ► perspective of my old MacBook Air the bezel on this thing is so much smaller but it's also from
01:22:31 ◼ ► the perspective of like an iPad or an iPhone it's still enormous so there's more room to be eked out
01:22:38 ◼ ► of the the display by pushing the bezel further and further out so maybe that's an opportunity to
01:22:46 ◼ ► put a curve in there too I don't know some great real-time follow-up in the relay FM discord from
01:22:52 ◼ ► Ryan who's put a link to cortex animated episode 109 it's also a time stamped link so I'll put it
01:23:00 ◼ ► in the show notes this is a in the illustrative look of Jason during the pew pew pew sounds I
01:23:10 ◼ ► think you're kind of Godzilla like in this animation I wasn't aware that I was a character
01:23:18 ◼ ► in cortex animated and then I watched cortex animated and I am yes it's a Godzilla like robot
01:23:26 ◼ ► me emerging from the sea to fire finger lasers at a city and I'm just watching cortex animated
01:23:32 ◼ ► you know just as you do and I'm like wait wait a second was that was that me and I went back
01:23:38 ◼ ► I'm like yeah that is me that is me as a robot monster firing lasers so it was great a very
01:23:43 ◼ ► talented animator hatred boutique asked me about that and I said yes do it and if I got to tell
01:23:48 ◼ ► you yeah I'm pleased it was a nice surprise yeah I I am glad that it was a complete surprise while
01:23:55 ◼ ► I was watching the thing because what are the chances that somebody isn't going to say that
01:23:59 ◼ ► you weren't going to say or that a viewer isn't going to say but nobody told me about it and I
01:24:04 ◼ ► was just watching and I had that moment it was delightful Phil asks I got an m1 MacBook Air this
01:24:12 ◼ ► week upgrading from a 2012 15 inch MacBook Pro my word what must feel like Wow this gives you an
01:24:20 ◼ ► example of how big of an update this is for Phil Phil's question is I've been having difficulty
01:24:24 ◼ ► with dragging files whenever I go to drag a file force touch kicks in should I turn it off okay so
01:24:30 ◼ ► so so Phil is an aggressive button masher yeah clearly well the thing is if you are used to the
01:24:39 ◼ ► old trackpad style which had just the one point I've actually Asian yep you probably weren't aware of
01:24:47 ◼ ► how hard you were pressing mm-hmm yeah probably so probably so my answer Phil is I'm looking at
01:24:53 ◼ ► my trackpad settings right now I have force click and happy haptic feedback turned off right and
01:25:01 ◼ ► that solves it so this is off what Phil wanted to know if they should just turn it off so what I'll
01:25:08 ◼ ► say is one thing you should do is just they have a light medium and firm clicking yeah maybe try out
01:25:14 ◼ ► those three options and see if you like that but I will tell you force the force clicking action
01:25:21 ◼ ► actions not that not that great really not not super important but yeah that I highly recommend
01:25:27 ◼ ► people go to the trackpad system preferences pane because it's a surprising amount of things you can
01:25:33 ◼ ► do there you you'll learn some see turn on silent clicking which is great because trackpads Apple
01:25:38 ◼ ► like juices the click because remember they don't click anymore not for real they sense the pressure
01:25:43 ◼ ► and they vibrate and make a sound and it makes it feel like it's a click but it's not it's all
01:25:49 ◼ ► a lie it's in your head and you can turn on silent clicking and then the audio portion the fake audio
01:25:54 ◼ ► goes away it still makes a noise because the vibration makes a noise but it's less of a noise
01:25:59 ◼ ► and I actually have silent clicking turned on because why would I want more noise oh my word
01:26:05 ◼ ► I didn't know about silent clicking right that's totally clicking yeah and then I have force click
01:26:10 ◼ ► and haptic feedback turned off and then the click settings where you can go light medium and firm
01:26:13 ◼ ► the beauty of having a fake click instead of a real click is you can set how hard you need to
01:26:19 ◼ ► push for the click to be registered which is great and then of course there's like tracking
01:26:23 ◼ ► speed and and and other stuff that's in there it's also the only is it the only Apple preference
01:26:28 ◼ ► pane that has videos that auto play in it which is weird I know why they do it but it's also kind
01:26:33 ◼ ► of weird but there's a lot you can do with modern track pads in terms of because they're not real
01:26:38 ◼ ► like right because they're fake the magic trackpad 2 and modern Apple laptop ones where I mean they're
01:26:43 ◼ ► not fake but like they don't depress in order to make a click it's all vibrations and sounds
01:26:50 ◼ ► and stuff because it's measuring the force pushed on the surface instead so try it out Phil and
01:26:56 ◼ ► you'll find a way to make yourself happy with your with your clicking and your dragging that's
01:27:02 ◼ ► that's where you also turn on just tapping rather than to select which I also like I hate that like
01:27:08 ◼ ► that but I like that tap to click it's the worst finally Ryan asks do you think Apple have added
01:27:14 ◼ ► the Apple watch authentication for unlocking your phone because they've realized they cannot deliver
01:27:19 ◼ ► touch ID this year I I say no because I think they're like I said earlier in the show there
01:27:29 ◼ ► are a lot of face ID phones out there and even if you were coming with a face ID iPhone in the fall
01:27:36 ◼ ► you're gonna have a lot of face ID or a touch ID phone in the fall you're gonna have a lot of face
01:27:41 ◼ ► ID phones that are still out there and you want to make those people happy also it's February so
01:27:47 ◼ ► let's assume this feature ships in March sometime like that's good that's really good for a lot of
01:28:04 ◼ ► this feature and we deliver touch ID in the fall then we're kind of undercutting a reason to upgrade
01:28:09 ◼ ► which is for touch ID I don't think it comes to that I think this is really about getting something
01:28:14 ◼ ► out there that they probably started working on last year at some point and they only got it
01:28:19 ◼ ► delivered now because there are so many phones out there that are are on face ID and and you know
01:28:26 ◼ ► don't work with masks so I think it's that simple it's fun though that there's gonna be another big
01:28:31 ◼ ► feature released around this time of year you know we got the trackpad support last year around
01:28:37 ◼ ► around this kind of time and it was like late February early March I think and now the I reckon
01:28:44 ◼ ► that's probably when we're gonna get this is late February early March I reckon before before 14
01:28:49 ◼ ► point five comes out it seems kind of like the round of time if you would like to send it in a
01:28:55 ◼ ► question for us to answer on the show just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade or use
01:28:59 ◼ ► question mark ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord that you get access to if you sign up for
01:29:04 ◼ ► upgrade plus where you also get lots of fantastic content we were talking I think maybe last time
01:29:10 ◼ ► about the interviews that you were doing for the 20 max of 2020 you posted another one of those
01:29:15 ◼ ► at John Syracuse you get access to that feed as well if you're an upgrade plus subscriber go to
01:29:20 ◼ ► get upgrade plus.com to sign up and you'll also get upgrade about any ads and we have additional
01:29:25 ◼ ► content each and every week thank you so much if you have signed up to help support the show I
01:29:31 ◼ ► would also like to thank hover door - and fit bod for their support of this episode and for you for
01:29:38 ◼ ► listening we'll be back next time you can find Jason online he's at six colors calm and at J Snell