00:00:08 ◼ ► For Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 358, and today's show is brought to you by Hello,
00:00:51 ◼ ► Often what happens is that there's a word that I think, "Oh, I should swipe this word,"
00:01:00 ◼ ► I think I would need to really put some thought into it because there are some words that
00:01:33 ◼ ► I would probably push myself to use it more if I was doing lots of text input on my iPhone,
00:01:42 ◼ ► I think swipe typing is one of the many, but a big reason for why I have so many errors,
00:01:48 ◼ ► especially when I text people because I'm swipe typing and not really paying attention.
00:01:53 ◼ ► One of my favorite things about swipe typing is when you get a particularly long or complicated
00:02:02 ◼ ► fingers if you swipe type "congratulations," because not only is it long, the word is actually
00:02:12 ◼ ► So if you've never done this before, you could just try swipe typing the word "congratulations"
00:02:46 ◼ ► tweet with the #SnailTalk or use question mark #SnailTalk in the Relay FM members Discord.
00:03:02 ◼ ► Now people may remember this if you've been around for long enough and have a good enough
00:03:10 ◼ ► similar thing happened with the iPhone 10, where it got "end of life" earlier than expected.
00:03:16 ◼ ► And that basically just means Apple feel like they currently have enough inventory of this
00:03:42 ◼ ► They know how many they expect to sell, and it's now reached a point where they have stopped
00:03:54 ◼ ► I don't like-- I'm gonna-- I suspect that I'm gonna be holding on to whatever this coming
00:04:11 ◼ ► But yeah, this is also the kind of thing that happens where, you know, sometimes a product
00:04:16 ◼ ► isn't ready to be replaced, but it stops being available in inventory, like, or it's running
00:04:34 ◼ ► Apple has so much complexity in their supply chain, and they're doing this stuff so far
00:04:39 ◼ ► And you don't want to build thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of phones.
00:04:45 ◼ ► And then when you replace it with a new model, realize that you've got those hundred thousand
00:05:06 ◼ ► might be true that they made so many HomePods in advance of shipping that product that they
00:05:34 ◼ ► We've seen the pandemic disrupts it and then there's lots of problems because you don't
00:05:45 ◼ ► But I will say when Tim Cook took this over, Apple was really bad at this before Tim Cook
00:06:21 ◼ ► And the result would be that they would have at any given time months more product than
00:07:37 ◼ ► My understanding of why US is they've worked out a new advertising system, I believe, that
00:07:49 ◼ ► And my understanding is this is only working in the US right now and or they're still testing
00:07:56 ◼ ► They're going to be going for the market at the time and they're probably going for their
00:08:01 ◼ ► Myke, my not knowing anything about how YouTube is put together, I'm just going to make a
00:08:05 ◼ ► guess here, which is that the way that the YouTube web player works and the way the YouTube
00:08:34 ◼ ► And that doesn't work with picture in picture because picture in picture is taking a video
00:08:42 ◼ ► So it may be that their new system is actually dropping the ads right into the video stream.
00:08:51 ◼ ► I will just say as a long time YouTube premium subscriber, I actually think this is the best
00:09:32 ◼ ► And then certain campaigns, depending on what target market you're in, will just repeat
00:09:40 ◼ ► And so you start to hate the people who are on the first unskippable portion of the ad.
00:10:24 ◼ ► Almost imagine like a Trivial Pursuit, like the little pieces in a Trivial Pursuit circle.
00:11:18 ◼ ► And as you would expect from the Icon Factory, yeah, so much of it is about the sounds and
00:11:45 ◼ ► They have one which is just like a blanket summer teaser, which is doing a lot of work,
00:11:52 ◼ ► There is lots of quotes and stuff about all of the press reception and the critical acclaim
00:12:04 ◼ ► And then they're also showing stuff for stuff that's coming on the service later this year.
00:12:57 ◼ ► But I think the distinction is literally that they're putting it out in installments and
00:13:19 ◼ ► But I didn't really know a ton about the premise and it looks funny, but also complicated and
00:13:36 ◼ ► We've said it on this show before, but for me, this really kind of solidified it, which
00:14:13 ◼ ► So that means that HBO Max is also anime and it's also DC TV shows and it's also Friends.
00:14:28 ◼ ► And Apple TV Plus, because they're basically just focusing on originals and not catalog
00:14:47 ◼ ► But like I was on, we were looking for something to watch last night and I was on Netflix.
00:15:18 ◼ ► And even when you go down to Netflix originals, there's so much that it's overwhelming.
00:15:28 ◼ ► I know they've got the algorithms, they've got the data, they're programming our brains
00:15:35 ◼ ► But the problem with that is in terms of really showing off the stuff that they think that's
00:15:57 ◼ ► And what I admired about it was because they don't have that much stuff, they just have
00:16:08 ◼ ► I felt like I could get a really good sense of what was on offer at any particular time.
00:16:17 ◼ ► And I guess what I'm saying is there's an argument to be made that focus and simplicity
00:16:50 ◼ ► And they're trying to do a bunch of different stuff, but still like HBO tried to do that
00:17:10 ◼ ► I think that when you end up releasing as much stuff as Netflix does, it kind of devalues
00:17:19 ◼ ► And certainly in the app, like the only way that I know what to watch on Netflix at this
00:17:35 ◼ ► Another season two, we had a little teaser and now there's a little, another little glimpse
00:17:40 ◼ ► at what the, I'd actually say if you really want to go into Ted Lasso season two, not knowing
00:17:49 ◼ ► It's all recognizable, but I think I suspect it gives away a bunch of what's going to happen
00:17:58 ◼ ► Yeah, I watched it and I wouldn't, if you know you're going to watch the show, I wouldn't
00:18:02 ◼ ► recommend watching it, but maybe more exciting is the Ted Lasso official merch store opened
00:18:15 ◼ ► Now Ted Lasso is very complicated licensing wise and Warner Brothers is one of the companies
00:18:27 ◼ ► They have personalized jerseys and hoodies and mugs and glasses and hoodies and a blanket
00:18:36 ◼ ► They have so much stuff, but I actually kind of like it because there's something for everyone
00:18:40 ◼ ► and this is not the amount of merch that would exist I think if Apple were running the merch
00:18:51 ◼ ► You imagine a company like Warner Brothers probably has a pretty decent merch operation
00:19:29 ◼ ► In fact, among the things in the trailer, I was like, oh, they have a new fake shirt sponsor.
00:19:33 ◼ ► And I think, uh, you know, there's probably, I actually thought to myself, there's probably
00:20:05 ◼ ► And this is also actually, believe it or not, when the initial trial period will finally
00:20:15 ◼ ► So this is the free trial that we've all been on, uh, since it started, it's been extended,
00:20:24 ◼ ► Uh, and it's kind of funny really, because I think the initial thinking that we all had
00:20:28 ◼ ► was like, oh, that's going to come to an end in time for, for all mankind in time for the
00:20:38 ◼ ► It's not necessarily what we would have expected, but, you know, in the morning show was coming
00:20:48 ◼ ► Like that's why, cause like, you know, morning show September and they got a bunch of other
00:20:54 ◼ ► Disney plus is committing to Wednesday releases for their original content shows going forward.
00:21:05 ◼ ► It's they, so they, they put Loki, obviously they were thinking about this because they
00:21:08 ◼ ► scheduled Loki on a Wednesday, although they, they have like the bad badges running and
00:21:14 ◼ ► So they had some other stuff that was rolling out on Fridays, but they pushed Loki out on
00:21:29 ◼ ► I think it was going to be that way wherever it was, whatever day of the week they brought
00:21:37 ◼ ► Um, in the U S traditionally the big day that everybody wanted to schedule shows, their
00:22:00 ◼ ► And that's why you wanted your biggest shows to be programmed on Thursdays is because all
00:22:04 ◼ ► the movie studios would come in with their ads for the movies for the weekend on a Thursday
00:22:08 ◼ ► because of Friday, they're out seeing movies and over the weekend, um, it used to be in
00:22:32 ◼ ► And um, so this is really interesting cause it's Disney saying, we're gonna, we're gonna
00:22:37 ◼ ► It's weird because it means like we had our, you know, Friday night Mandalorian night and
00:22:48 ◼ ► Um, I sent you when this was going on a couple of tweets by TV critic, Alan Sepinwall, who's
00:22:52 ◼ ► at rolling stone and he made the point, which I think is spot on that ultimately what's
00:22:59 ◼ ► going to happen is different shows are going to have different release days and we're going
00:23:04 ◼ ► to go back to the world of network TV, essentially replicated on streaming, which is different
00:23:12 ◼ ► And on Tuesdays you get for weekly releases, especially because the great thing about a
00:23:29 ◼ ► And the reason you do a weekly release is because you want people talking about it week
00:23:39 ◼ ► look for, look for different services to experiment this with a little, a little bit more.
00:23:45 ◼ ► Um, obviously HBO max because HBO has air dates on their linear channel for their, their
00:23:58 ◼ ► We watched hacks, which is a really good show by the way on HBO max and it's an HBO max
00:24:14 ◼ ► And it, it had a weekly two episodes a week cause it's a comedy and so they dropped two
00:24:23 ◼ ► And even better than that, when you press play, it said it had a little title card that
00:24:33 ◼ ► It's like, yes, remind me to be here on Wednesday for new episodes and it totally worked.
00:24:49 ◼ ► We're just going to drop everything in a binge watch on a Friday and just take over the weekend.
00:24:55 ◼ ► And then you've seen other services go, well, what if we experiment with some different
00:25:05 ◼ ► Then you would, you would have maybe guessed from what Netflix is doing because I think
00:25:10 ◼ ► they're actually, just as I am a firm believer that there is power in releasing things weekly
00:25:21 ◼ ► But I think that there's also power in making that appointment and your release day is the
00:25:32 ◼ ► You know, I don't know, but I like, I really like that idea of saying we're releasing this
00:25:41 ◼ ► That's, uh, I like it because a weekly release is an appointment making release schedule.
00:25:58 ◼ ► Buckwheat pillows have a inherent support that they provide because they're not fluffy.
00:26:12 ◼ ► It's closer to that really, but also not like those things, but they're the closest things
00:26:36 ◼ ► So you don't have that flipping to the cool side of the pillow kind of thing because your
00:27:02 ◼ ► It's really easy to kind of just put the pillow down, squeeze it once, put my head down on
00:27:22 ◼ ► The certified organic cotton case is cut and sewn for durability and the buckwheat is grown
00:27:34 ◼ ► You can sleep on it for 60 nights and if it isn't for you, just send it back and you'll
00:27:43 ◼ ► That's hollowpillow.com/upgrade and if you buy more than one, they have a special discount
00:27:51 ◼ ► They have fast free shipping of every order and 1% of all profits are donated to the Nature
00:29:40 ◼ ► Yeah, I think so too, because they only just changed the screen size like two years ago.
00:30:34 ◼ ► once they stop selling it all, they can stop supporting it after a certain amount of time.
00:30:42 ◼ ► So they still have to support it for a while, even though they probably shouldn't be selling
00:30:49 ◼ ► That to me is going to be one of the big questions about the Apple Watch this fall is just like,
00:31:00 ◼ ► Is the SE going to be more of what we thought it was going to be last year and ended up
00:31:04 ◼ ► not being where it's like, it's the low-end watch except for the other one that's lower.
00:31:14 ◼ ► Well, let's pause talking about this Series 7 and talk about the SE for a minute because
00:32:10 ◼ ► Because yeah, clearly I don't see how anybody can look at we're selling a 6, an SE, and
00:32:21 ◼ ► I mean, when I say that, it's very much like they wanted to do that, but the asterisk is
00:32:49 ◼ ► I mean, that's a classic Tim Cook Apple kind of model, which is we've got a new model that's
00:33:05 ◼ ► But the SE is, I think, a much more appealing product name and concept than the Series 3,
00:33:29 ◼ ► You want to see them get rid of Series 3 this year so they can drop the support in watchOS
00:33:58 ◼ ► >> Clearly, they thought that they were going to hit the Series 3 price and they failed.
00:34:13 ◼ ► I was just, there's so many things that the Apple Watch SE does not have that you think
00:34:58 ◼ ► And so you end up in this position where you're like, well, what we want to do with the SE
00:35:14 ◼ ► And so they kept the last version of the old platform around way, I mean, and we're not
00:35:20 ◼ ► even getting into the fact that like, I don't know if we talked about it here or not, but
00:35:30 ◼ ► problems right where it wouldn't do a software update because it said there wasn't enough
00:35:35 ◼ ► And Apple finally just changed their tech note to say, if you want to update the software,
00:35:49 ◼ ► And so actually speaking of inventory, I wonder if one of the reasons that they're still selling
00:36:12 ◼ ► So we'll have to see what they do there because what you want is it to be good, but not cutting
00:36:39 ◼ ► Because the idea there is that the SE doesn't feel as old as Series 3 where you're like,
00:36:57 ◼ ► It starts at 279, still too expensive compared to the 399 or 499 Series 6 in my opinion.
00:37:18 ◼ ► Apple's working on a new screen lamination technique to bring the display closer to the
00:37:53 ◼ ► I have another theory here which is this could just be a way to get the display portion to
00:38:03 ◼ ► For Germin's report it says it's slightly thicker so that leads me to believe that maybe
00:38:07 ◼ ► the lamination is less about trying to get a more visible screen and more about reducing
00:39:00 ◼ ► I have another random piece of real-time follow-up but I want to address it for all the people
00:39:31 ◼ ► In regards to sensors, again this report is more about things Apple wanted or are working
00:39:40 ◼ ► Because Mark Germin talked to people who knew what they were working on and that it didn't
00:39:43 ◼ ► Like behind the scenes is people who were like "uh we couldn't get that in" and they're
00:39:55 ◼ ► I know that it must be difficult to do that but it would be nice and it's right up against
00:40:13 ◼ ► Like one you could use like more people would get more frequent use out of than a heart
00:40:23 ◼ ► I'm not a doctor obviously but not only is it like you might be running a fever but you
00:40:34 ◼ ► Like there's all sorts of things you could potentially do beyond just you might you know
00:40:47 ◼ ► So that's interesting and you know but I get it that you've got a fixed position on a wrist
00:40:53 ◼ ► and you've got to infer you've got to measure lots of stuff using a very limited amount
00:41:15 ◼ ► We heard about this one of these times we've been talking about prospective Apple watch
00:41:23 ◼ ► blood sugar sensors for diabetics and you know the technology is improving but you know
00:41:48 ◼ ► I mean the Apple look Apple wants this thing to be a tricorder like from Star Trek Apple
00:41:53 ◼ ► wants the Apple watch to sit on your wrist and know everything it can possibly know about
00:41:58 ◼ ► your health and the challenge with that is that it is sitting on the back of your wrist
00:42:17 ◼ ► We talked at one point I think we talked about AirPods as a potential sensor you know for
00:42:25 ◼ ► Apple health and I was thinking about that regarding this story because you could argue
00:42:32 ◼ ► like Apple's gate detection that it's talking about doing an iOS 15 that's an Apple that's
00:42:38 ◼ ► an iPhone feature right and I think there's something to that that it's like it's in your
00:42:42 ◼ ► pocket and and there's detection that it can do there that is interesting and and AirPods
00:42:54 ◼ ► started looking at AirPods as another sensor surface for Apple watch and if you don't have
00:43:00 ◼ ► Apple watch maybe it logs that data to your iPhone and it does something with it but like
00:43:04 ◼ ► it's really starting to think of all of its products that touch your body as being surfaces
00:43:11 ◼ ► that could be used to detect personal medical data and I think that's going to continue
00:43:15 ◼ ► I think that anything that Apple does if they make glasses and that they're on your temples
00:43:20 ◼ ► they're going to be like oh well we're touching the temples we're touching their forehead
00:43:23 ◼ ► we can learn things there too because I think ultimately that's what Apple wants is be even
00:43:40 ◼ ► I think they had such success with the Apple watch and its health application that it will
00:43:58 ◼ ► is a terrible place for it but you know what a good place to measure somebody's temperature
00:44:02 ◼ ► is inside their ear they're like get the get the AirPods people on the phone we're gonna
00:44:07 ◼ ► put a thermometer in the AirPods and the AirPod and that's that's another example of Apple
00:44:13 ◼ ► the way Apple is run Apple thinking kind of holistically about its products where if you
00:44:17 ◼ ► were just making wireless earbuds you would not put a temperature sensor in them but if
00:44:22 ◼ ► you're Apple you're thinking big picture which is ah the Apple watch could really use the
00:44:30 ◼ ► There's also an extreme sports option of the Apple watch plan for 2022 along with a new
00:44:36 ◼ ► SE there have previously been a rumor about a more rugged Apple watch and I guess that's
00:44:48 ◼ ► be a separate watch like the SE or could it be like a part of like series 8 and you know
00:44:55 ◼ ► My feeling is that this is the equivalent of materials options that this is the equivalent
00:45:01 ◼ ► of offering it in stainless steel or titanium right is that they'll offer a ruggedized option
00:45:14 ◼ ► think that's beyond the realm of possibility right basically you take the the core of the
00:45:20 ◼ ► Apple watch but you put it in something different this would probably also you know this would
00:45:28 ◼ ► this super rugged kind of g-shocks thing but that's okay right like I think I think that
00:45:34 ◼ ► is a great new territory for Apple watch to go is is specializing it like this and that
00:45:46 ◼ ► make an Apple watch extreme or whatever version of your current Apple watch just like you
00:46:01 ◼ ► of different material and up to now the different material has been the same shape just different
00:46:07 ◼ ► metals but it would be very I don't want to say very easy but you could see how it would
00:46:13 ◼ ► be a parallel development for them to to take this so that would be my guess is that if
00:46:18 ◼ ► they want to do a sport like an extreme sport rugged version of the Apple watch that this
00:46:23 ◼ ► is what it would be and maybe they also vary the glass right they vary the glass on the
00:46:27 ◼ ► top so that would be another thing where they would probably put the you know the most rugged
00:46:48 ◼ ► is some more details in the design and that the Apple watch would be the next Apple product
00:46:54 ◼ ► to feature a flat edge design with the possibility of a green Apple watch but potentially more
00:47:10 ◼ ► I don't I don't know I mean the Apple watch design hasn't changed at all in the what seven
00:47:17 ◼ ► years yeah like they kind of the general case design you know all they did was change the
00:47:25 ◼ ► Right but like it's maintained all compatibility and it looks the same that you look at the
00:47:30 ◼ ► original Apple watch and you look at the current Apple watch and like it's Apple watch.
00:47:42 ◼ ► is it is iconic at this point it is recognizably what an Apple watch looks like and when you
00:47:50 ◼ ► see one you go up Apple watch like every time I'm watching a TV show or something like their
00:47:56 ◼ ► Apple watch there it is right it's just you can you can see it and you know it and that
00:48:02 ◼ ► has power so I don't I don't know also look I'm not a watch person so I don't know about
00:48:12 ◼ ► there there's so many different kinds of watch design out there maybe a iPhone and iPad and
00:48:22 ◼ ► though the flat sides thing maybe that would look great on a watch and if so it would certainly
00:48:29 ◼ ► fit into the sort of design family of Apple's products maybe it wouldn't I mean it's a round
00:48:36 ◼ ► rekt right like it would be what would it look like if it was if it was shaped differently
00:48:41 ◼ ► what would it feel like on your wrist to have kind of a flat a flat side instead of a little
00:48:46 ◼ ► curvy side I don't know it's probably beyond my capacity as somebody who is not up on watch
00:48:54 ◼ ► design I'm open to the idea that they would change the Apple watch design I think at some
00:48:58 ◼ ► point they probably have to evolve it but I also think like they've come this far establishing
00:49:10 ◼ ► this point what do you think you care about watches yeah I think flat edges is fine you
00:49:25 ◼ ► I think that's perfectly fine I think it's needed I think that the Apple watch has looked
00:49:35 ◼ ► I mean I stand by the fact and still want a round Apple watch because I just don't like
00:49:44 ◼ ► a round shape I would like to see them changing a little bit more about what the Apple watch
00:49:56 ◼ ► I think it's I think it's time for some change there personally and I know what I feel about
00:50:01 ◼ ► you know flat edge design if they're going to make it look like a flat edge from an Apple
00:50:06 ◼ ► product it could be kind of cool if they do like some of the shinier finishes that they've
00:50:11 ◼ ► had on some of the pro phones could be interesting I'd be intrigued to see what they would do
00:50:16 ◼ ► with it could it make it potentially look too much like computer maybe but I would like
00:50:29 ◼ ► design on the Apple watch it kind of feels old now in a way that I don't find appealing
00:50:40 ◼ ► interesting dilemma for Apple because I think it does provide them with familiarity that's
00:50:47 ◼ ► actually powerful for a lot of users and for potential buyers but it's also been around
00:50:58 ◼ ► it's boring and it's old and give me something new I'm not sure where Apple watches and its
00:51:09 ◼ ► and there's value in having it be recognizable and familiar are they building you know so
00:51:15 ◼ ► many new buyers that that's more important to them is sort of like or or would they have
00:51:25 ◼ ► the question of like would they do would they do both I have a hard time believing that
00:51:41 ◼ ► of the same model watch that's a possibility it seems unlikely but you know never say never
00:51:54 ◼ ► do you think about the display borders changing and would they change the screen size I feel
00:52:05 ◼ ► not just app developers like app developers are going to figure it out but it's also Apple's
00:52:09 ◼ ► own software development where every time you change the screen size you have to support
00:52:18 ◼ ► they had designed for the smaller screen size basically behind and have not updated them
00:52:22 ◼ ► and they're like oh well that's just where those are old and they use the old stuff and
00:52:27 ◼ ► now we're like they couldn't be bothered to update all their faces to be on the new screen
00:52:31 ◼ ► size right like so it's a challenge for Apple when they change the screen size which is
00:52:36 ◼ ► why what I think is I would never change the screen size on incrementally on the existing
00:52:51 ◼ ► because a circular display is really interesting and would require a lot of work to support
00:52:58 ◼ ► yeah you got to start over yeah so if you're if you're gonna go there you gotta lay the
00:53:10 ◼ ► think I actually think they will go there eventually because how could you not the circular
00:53:17 ◼ ► you know circular watch face is such a classic and common kind of thing especially when it's
00:53:23 ◼ ► not like Apple don't try their best to make their watch faces look like real watches they
00:53:51 ◼ ► will they will do it when they're they feel ready to offer a circular version of you know
00:54:00 ◼ ► everything they do and guidelines for developers about how to deal with a non rectangular screen
00:54:06 ◼ ► and all that but I think in the short run you know I think it's gonna be a fun question
00:54:12 ◼ ► because I do I see both sides I see the desire to make something that looks new and also
00:54:17 ◼ ► the advantages of having something that looks familiar in a new product category yeah this
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00:56:15 ◼ ► our thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of upgrade and relay FM so Apple has
00:56:29 ◼ ► in the office starting in September with this hybrid approach running until 2022 at the
00:56:35 ◼ ► earliest which is only three months if they can in January but it will be for review potentially
00:56:45 ◼ ► at Apple Park and probably in some of their other locations is Monday Tuesday and Thursday
00:56:51 ◼ ► with the option to work from home on Wednesdays and Fridays you can go into the office if
00:57:06 ◼ ► I honestly I was disappointed by it okay I I'm gonna do all the disclaimers here up front
00:57:22 ◼ ► commuted every day so I've and I hired people and I hired remote people and I hired people
00:57:42 ◼ ► are lots of jobs at Apple that really do require people being in the office for various reasons
00:57:49 ◼ ► right there what the pandemic taught us though is that there are certainly some jobs that
00:58:06 ◼ ► with the pandemic is that there are some jobs that seemed like they couldn't possibly be
00:58:12 ◼ ► done remotely that could be done remotely I'm reminded of the fact that the entertainment
00:58:42 ◼ ► when computers weren't as powerful and network connections weren't as fast and some of it
00:58:48 ◼ ► was that they just hadn't tried it but I know for a fact that a lot of people in that industry
00:58:53 ◼ ► made it work during the pandemic not necessarily doing all of their renders and edits on their
00:58:58 ◼ ► own computers at home but using remote access software to control a powerful computer in
00:59:04 ◼ ► a data center or at the office somewhere and sitting at home and doing the work remotely
00:59:09 ◼ ► and that they made that work just fine so like there's a bunch of different levels here
00:59:13 ◼ ► there's the stuff that probably should have been remotable from the beginning and wasn't
00:59:17 ◼ ► there's the stuff that we thought wasn't possible that we found out it was and then there's
00:59:26 ◼ ► efficient you know it wasn't as good I think all those things exist so the problem I have
00:59:33 ◼ ► and again I don't I don't work at Apple and I also don't know the purpose of Tim Cook's
00:59:37 ◼ ► message Tim Cook's message may indeed be the base model message which is everybody at Apple
00:59:44 ◼ ► gets this but individual groups beyond this can decide policies like it doesn't seem like
00:59:51 ◼ ► that's the case yeah so here's this is the challenge is well no there's a there's a there's
00:59:59 ◼ ► blah blah blah right like I think there is definitely because because the truth is Apple
01:00:04 ◼ ► does have remote employees they do they do they just are the exception and right so like
01:00:17 ◼ ► with it is not I think it's great that Tim Cook is in this memo saying we get that there's
01:00:29 ◼ ► should say up front not everybody is built for working at home either mentally like they're
01:00:34 ◼ ► just they need to focus better their physical workspace at home like you have to have a
01:00:39 ◼ ► physical workspace at home that makes sense and a lot of people don't have that so having
01:01:07 ◼ ► your life and better for your health to not be commuting every single day so we're gonna
01:01:15 ◼ ► days plus we're gonna give you a little work from home allowance which you know I I use
01:01:20 ◼ ► that I I could work from home whenever I chose essentially when I was working at IDG and
01:01:25 ◼ ► I you know I didn't work from home all the time I couldn't do my job that way but there
01:01:30 ◼ ► were times when I was working on something and I realized I needed to just be heads down
01:01:34 ◼ ► on this thing for a day or two and I would do work from home and it was great so I think
01:01:38 ◼ ► that when he says a couple of weeks of working from home available as a benefit essentially
01:01:50 ◼ ► needs to be the old-style job of you've got to come into an office and sit I and I'm disappointed
01:01:57 ◼ ► because I would have hoped that Apple learned over the last year that some of their corporate
01:02:09 ◼ ► the hallways and brilliant things are gonna happen that sort of serendipity fantasy that
01:02:14 ◼ ► I believe is a fantasy because I think serendipity can happen in all sorts of places it can happen
01:02:18 ◼ ► in slack channels it can happen in video calls and it can happen at the lunch room you know
01:02:23 ◼ ► counter when you're getting some coffee and you bump into somebody I think there's a little
01:02:33 ◼ ► fact that some of its insistence on that one way of working which is being an office chair
01:02:39 ◼ ► every day or three days a week is not necessary and that some jobs and some groups don't need
01:02:51 ◼ ► to do they can the employees recourse is to find another job what I am saying though is
01:02:56 ◼ ► that if Apple approaches this in in this with this philosophy and this culture that comes
01:03:04 ◼ ► from Steve Jobs which is everybody's got to be in Cupertino essentially and and there they
01:03:10 ◼ ► have other offices too but you get my point everybody's got to be in in the office in Cupertino
01:03:15 ◼ ► what you're going to do if you're Apple is you're going to lose talent because some talents
01:03:29 ◼ ► or live in a tiny house with a long commute in order to work at Apple and that's Apple's
01:03:35 ◼ ► decision but I will say as somebody who hired remote people I got way way better people
01:03:41 ◼ ► by willing be willing to hire by being willing to hire somebody who was not present and they
01:03:48 ◼ ► did great work not every job can be that but some can so my my disappointment to this memo
01:03:53 ◼ ► is more that it feels very one-size-fits-all and it doesn't seem to have learned the lesson
01:04:05 ◼ ► this memo is very much about for the people who are in the office all the time you don't
01:04:17 ◼ ► nice actually but there's other parts that I'm like hmm yeah but I know for a fact that
01:04:34 ◼ ► special events or off-sites or things and it was great and and you've learned presumably
01:04:41 ◼ ► over the last year what groups those are and yet I didn't it's not in this memo it doesn't
01:04:54 ◼ ► of this should be a lesson learned that maybe there are some groups within Apple that it
01:04:59 ◼ ► doesn't make sense to hire everybody and force them to be in Cupertino because it's really
01:05:08 ◼ ► could hire somebody somewhere else and make them not move and see them a couple of times
01:05:27 ◼ ► not for every group so much of the conversation about this is well in my whatever or in this
01:05:34 ◼ ► experience I had and like I just want to say that every group is different but I will also
01:05:40 ◼ ► say that I have seen firsthand and through people I know that Apple's corporate culture
01:05:47 ◼ ► of everybody needs to be here is still pretty strong and it leads to them having these some
01:05:54 ◼ ► jobs and groups that everybody has to be in the office even if all they're doing is sitting
01:06:07 ◼ ► they had learned more of a lesson from it this memo doesn't suggest that they did perhaps
01:06:13 ◼ ► those individual groups did and if so then good because they should because I would imagine
01:06:21 ◼ ► that Apple is going to lose talent and this was true before the pandemic but it's going
01:06:26 ◼ ► to accelerate Apple's going to lose some talent because lots of people don't want to live
01:06:39 ◼ ► So The Verge obtained an internal letter sent to Apple management that detailed that the
01:06:54 ◼ ► Now that many people have obviously realized that permanent work from home not only works
01:07:00 ◼ ► better for them at work but also allows them to kind of better balance the lives that they
01:07:10 ◼ ► the Bay Area tech scene who are allowing like permanent work from home schedules or have
01:07:18 ◼ ► I will just say like I was surprised by the the fact that they did have a mixed approach
01:07:32 ◼ ► The two weeks work from home policy thing just seems so small it's pointless to me like
01:07:40 ◼ ► And that's what makes me raise an eyebrow at the whole memo because it it it comes across
01:07:57 ◼ ► an employee they're mostly not in the office they do great work I don't care you've got
01:08:01 ◼ ► another employee when they're working from home their productivity drops I do care they
01:08:06 ◼ ► need to come in right like that's that's how it should work instead of it being like well
01:08:10 ◼ ► you've got two weeks of not of of staycation right like it's weird right you should you
01:08:23 ◼ ► So this this letter basically was coming from a large group of people inside of the company
01:08:29 ◼ ► who now feel that the approach for them is not that this stance of being at work is best
01:08:35 ◼ ► kind of works for them kind of left them feeling a little alienated and this letter that was
01:08:41 ◼ ► kind of circulated internally and sent to Apple management it asks for a bunch of things
01:08:47 ◼ ► some of them are that work from home decisions should be the responsibility of each team
01:09:09 ◼ ► so they can actually get the understanding of the group at large and that more consideration
01:09:20 ◼ ► Well what and what they're talking about here in this in this letter which which people
01:09:26 ◼ ► who listen to this probably have seen it John Gruber basically demolished this in a post
01:09:40 ◼ ► basically seems to be defending the big the giant company against their mean old employees
01:09:53 ◼ ► is bad and embarrassing the way it's written is bad it's it's it's bad but I will say this
01:10:07 ◼ ► is they're saying you know hey pandemic was a thing and now that we're back can we change
01:10:20 ◼ ► sort of like Tim Cook's reopening memo which is let's come back and we learn some things
01:10:24 ◼ ► and and I absolutely understand the idea that this seems more of a blanket decision than
01:10:29 ◼ ► maybe it should be and that there are a bunch of groups that really should be given license
01:10:32 ◼ ► here's the thing people in charge of groups are going to look at Tim Cook's memo as permission
01:10:49 ◼ ► corporate culture is already so brutally hard and I say this as somebody who spent years
01:10:54 ◼ ► trying to haul a print magazine culture onto the web right like and everybody can agree
01:11:01 ◼ ► but you know what it's not just about the people it's about the structure and it's about
01:11:05 ◼ ► how people feel they're valued and it's about how it's like permeates an organization makes
01:11:12 ◼ ► it very hard to change even Apple right like that was Steve Jobs's greatest trick arguably
01:11:17 ◼ ► when he came back was he had to not just build products he had to change the culture and
01:11:22 ◼ ► they and build ways to reinforce the corporate culture like Apple University so I think what's
01:11:30 ◼ ► going to the employee frustration that you see in this memo is is they're saying we think
01:11:37 ◼ ► the pandemic has taught us an important lesson about how some of Apple's assumed from Steve
01:11:43 ◼ ► Jobs corporate culture decisions aren't accurate and we would like management to really take
01:12:05 ◼ ► go back to being the way that they were that we've learned that we can do this job in a
01:12:15 ◼ ► come back into work or not not have a commute or you know have to come back home from Lake
01:12:24 ◼ ► to hire a much broader group of people because they could hire somebody anywhere for those
01:12:39 ◼ ► up but to revisit it in a moment where there's enough that's gone on that you might actually
01:12:55 ◼ ► on the Finder team even though he'd been working on the Finder team just fine from Cork maybe
01:13:00 ◼ ► that was not so great and Apple missed out on not having James involved as one of their
01:13:04 ◼ ► developers for the last 20 years because he's a very talented developer and the only thing
01:13:09 ◼ ► that was against him was that he wasn't going to move to California so maybe this is a good
01:13:14 ◼ ► opportunity for us to say let's rethink things a little bit let's analyze this and determine
01:13:26 ◼ ► at least as being a restatement of the status quo and say we're not going to revisit this
01:13:36 ◼ ► if App Store editorial which is just people writing and editing articles about apps has
01:13:49 ◼ ► much what we used to do at IDG and we had people all over the country in the world like
01:13:56 ◼ ► maybe that's not great maybe we should rethink it maybe we should at least consider it so
01:14:07 ◼ ► in them it's just it's such a bad bit of bureaucracy and it's eye-rolling but I totally get the
01:14:13 ◼ ► motivation behind it which is people who love Apple and work at Apple and have found that
01:14:19 ◼ ► they find that Apple is better with some of the lessons learned in the pandemic and they're
01:14:26 ◼ ► feeling that this memo basically tosses away all those lessons in order to go back to something
01:14:31 ◼ ► as close to the old way as possible and I totally understand being disappointed by that.
01:14:35 ◼ ► So I want to build on something that you said earlier and also like in referencing something
01:14:48 ◼ ► this idea that if people are unhappy about something they can request it but they can't
01:15:07 ◼ ► I think it is up to the leaders of a company like a democracy to decide how much they want
01:15:17 ◼ ► something maybe listen because they might have a point you can choose not to agree right
01:15:22 ◼ ► it's fine that's your decision but then you need to be comfortable living with that decision
01:15:27 ◼ ► and accepting potential ramifications of it and this idea of democracy seemed interesting
01:15:32 ◼ ► to me because I think what you can draw from here if we're going to get metaphorical with
01:15:37 ◼ ► it is a parallel to another system of power so authoritarian governments they can allow
01:15:46 ◼ ► people to freely leave right it's not necessarily the same as dictatorship but it's like we're
01:16:19 ◼ ► people including in groupers post where he's basically punching down at employees and defending
01:16:27 ◼ ► rules so live with it it's like there's truth in that right like they want to make a change
01:16:33 ◼ ► from the inside but it is true also that they signed up for it and that if their employer
01:16:41 ◼ ► tells them it's too bad this is the way it's going to be they either need to you know like
01:16:46 ◼ ► it or leave the big picture is if you've got really talented people and they're going to
01:16:54 ◼ ► leave that's not great and then right behind that is who do you replace them with and now
01:17:00 ◼ ► you're and when you grow who are you going to hire and now you're dealing with a post-pandemic
01:17:05 ◼ ► workforce that is going to look less encouragingly on your insistence that people work people
01:17:14 ◼ ► move to the Bay Area and three times a week commute in to an office in the South Bay in
01:17:23 ◼ ► cut yourself off from people who are never going to move to the Bay Area but now you there's
01:17:33 ◼ ► hiring they are very talented tech workers they got lots of options and now so many other
01:17:39 ◼ ► tech companies are going partially or fully virtual that the it becomes even harder for
01:17:55 ◼ ► person over here and she's great but she's not going to move from South Dakota but she's
01:18:01 ◼ ► really great and her job doesn't really need to be here and we've got slack and it'll be
01:18:05 ◼ ► fine and we got you know Cisco meetings and it'll be fine and I want to hire her and what
01:18:10 ◼ ► do they do that's the other way this could go is that Apple's corporate culture changes
01:18:20 ◼ ► and at the bottom they're like I I have to hire this person because they're very talented
01:18:24 ◼ ► and my other options are not as good but this person can't is not going to come here and
01:18:28 ◼ ► they have no leverage over that person I mean they've got limited leverage over that person
01:18:32 ◼ ► some people will move some people won't and it's like do you want to hire that talented
01:18:36 ◼ ► person or do you want to hire this less talented person or you found nobody else who is as
01:18:56 ◼ ► a brain drain I mean you described it the people leaving a country because that country
01:19:00 ◼ ► is not conducive to what they want to do with their lives that's bad and and the pandemic
01:19:06 ◼ ► has not made that less of an issue for Apple that it already was an issue but it has not
01:19:11 ◼ ► made it less of an issue for Apple it's made it more of an issue for Apple and that's about
01:19:15 ◼ ► retention and about hiring we know all sorts of people who used to work at Apple and they
01:19:21 ◼ ► left and they moved somewhere else and they're very happy right like and that's part of the
01:19:26 ◼ ► brain drain I took you talk to people at Apple and some of it is about it's a grind it's
01:19:37 ◼ ► I couldn't stay in the Bay Area anymore and and that's that's you're you're risking more
01:19:42 ◼ ► of that and believe it or not Apple acts like it is the the pinnacle the big leagues and
01:19:49 ◼ ► that you have to work at Apple and it's like there is some truth to that but also there
01:19:54 ◼ ► are a lot of people in a lot of jobs at Apple whether that's not true right it's like if
01:20:00 ◼ ► you're designing Macs or iPhones or you know anything like in the in the core it's probably
01:20:16 ◼ ► a lot of this to made sacrifices like Michael Gartenberg the analyst was pretty much outspoken
01:20:22 ◼ ► about this like Gruber was and you know but I know for a fact like he took a job at Apple
01:20:26 ◼ ► he had to move his whole life was in New Jersey he had to move to California and he lived in
01:20:30 ◼ ► California for as long as he worked at Apple and the moment he left Apple he moved back
01:20:33 ◼ ► to New Jersey and like I can see from that person's perspective saying look I sacrificed
01:20:38 ◼ ► in order to work at Apple why why can't you it's like fair enough but from Apple's perspective
01:20:44 ◼ ► I'm saying that might be kind of dumb to force everybody who wants to work there to sacrifice
01:20:58 ◼ ► this episode is brought to you by public sector future from Microsoft I love finding new podcasts
01:21:09 ◼ ► check out public sector future it discusses real stories from public sector leaders who
01:21:13 ◼ ► have been successful at driving change you can hear first-hand experiences that challenge
01:21:30 ◼ ► talking about host Olivia Neal digs deep into the uses of digital approaches to help public
01:21:35 ◼ ► sector work better for those that it serves she is the director of digital transformation
01:21:50 ◼ ► which speech there's tons of interesting show topics including mixed reality rules as code
01:22:02 ◼ ► as well so I checked out an episode with Mark polyface who is a professor of computer science
01:22:14 ◼ ► on mixed reality and it was super interesting to see like to hear about how what we see
01:22:19 ◼ ► currently is a are on our phones is like just this tiny step in the overall future of this
01:22:29 ◼ ► time and how they think about it as like yeah we can only see if it's so much right now
01:22:33 ◼ ► and there's so much more to grow from this and they were talking about how mixed reality
01:22:39 ◼ ► devices can be utilized for tasks like showing instructions overlaid right in front of you
01:22:45 ◼ ► and how this can help break down super complicated things and they were talking about how people
01:22:50 ◼ ► in like the medical sector in the UK have been using that during current during coronavirus
01:22:54 ◼ ► like a doctor can basically instruct multiple juniors and multiple nurses at the same time
01:23:01 ◼ ► by giving instructions because they can see them in mixed in like mixed reality instead
01:23:10 ◼ ► to it yourself go just search for public sector future wherever you get your podcasts as public
01:23:28 ◼ ► First one comes from Zach and Zach wants to know how much value have you as non-developers
01:23:32 ◼ ► gotten from WWDC sessions this but this year is there any that you would recommend to people
01:23:48 ◼ ► lot this year it was really cool I enjoyed it brought in Stephen Hackett to join me and
01:23:54 ◼ ► Dan we watched all the sessions that we felt had value to people who are not developers
01:23:58 ◼ ► to glean things from them and we wrote those up and those are all in those posts from six
01:24:04 ◼ ► colors so I would recommend starting there and if any of those things seem worth diving
01:24:10 ◼ ► into further then go find those sessions and dive in but we did that work for you in in
01:24:23 ◼ ► Yeah I mean for me any sessions that I did watch I typically would just watch the first
01:24:41 ◼ ► I used to be physically leave the room and now it's just close that window and and move
01:24:47 ◼ ► I think the one I enjoyed the most personally was shortcuts for Mac OS it was just it's
01:24:54 ◼ ► I'll tell you the one that I thought was brilliant and entertaining is called discover built-in
01:25:05 ◼ ► literally using machine learning sound analysis to every sound that gets made in the room
01:25:13 ◼ ► it recognizes what it is and like he's talking and it says voice and he turns on music and
01:25:17 ◼ ► it says music and you're like oh well that's cool it can tell the difference between voice
01:25:20 ◼ ► and music and then but then the drums come in and it's a guitar and then it shows guitar
01:25:25 ◼ ► and then the drums come in and then it shows that it's recognizing the drums and then the
01:25:32 ◼ ► the music and then he turns that off and you know he he pours himself some tea and it it
01:25:44 ◼ ► he puts in some sugar and clinks against the glass it recognizes the glass clinking and
01:25:55 ◼ ► they showed there's a great demo of it running on shortcuts on the Mac with a folder full
01:26:19 ◼ ► playing the cowbell which is also hilarious so that was my that was my most entertaining
01:26:24 ◼ ► session and you know you're not going to probably write an app that uses the sound analysis
01:26:41 ◼ ► show notes to the six colors right up on both of those which obviously will have links to
01:26:50 ◼ ► Brant wants to know Myke did you end up using a popsocket and not magsafe so far with your
01:26:56 ◼ ► iPhone 12 Pro Max the answer is yes I've stuck to magsafe on the phone itself no case the
01:27:11 ◼ ► things one I'm fine with how I've been using it and not using magsafe it's not a problem
01:27:17 ◼ ► for me I still have all of my docks that have lightning connectors on them and my phone
01:27:20 ◼ ► goes great onto those and I've seen mixed reports of those magsafe the magnetic magsafe
01:27:42 ◼ ► Buzz asks I'm planning on doing a clean install when I upgrade to a new MacBook Pro hopefully
01:28:11 ◼ ► install it's a clean install and then it puts back the files that it thinks you need that
01:28:15 ◼ ► would probably be my number one would be do a Time Machine backup wipe install and then
01:28:24 ◼ ► pretty good job of you know Apple is copying over the files that you that are yours that
01:28:30 ◼ ► are personal but not anything that the system doesn't need and so it will be cleaner it
01:28:38 ◼ ► will still migrate a bunch of old stuff that you could probably get rid of but short of
01:28:42 ◼ ► you know manually pruning your preferences folder and stuff I think that's probably the
01:28:45 ◼ ► safest way to do I just did that in fact with my my wife's MacBook Air it had a giant freak
01:28:51 ◼ ► out I had to reboot it from recovery it failed to reboot from recovery it went into internet
01:28:59 ◼ ► recovery and then it failed to update on internet recovery so I had to do a I had to do a special
01:29:06 ◼ ► recovery where it recovered to Big Sur which meant it went from Mojave to Big Sur and at
01:29:20 ◼ ► Machine backup that runs every day so it was fine and I restored so I wiped it installed
01:29:27 ◼ ► Big Sur and then I migrated from the Time Machine backup and she got all her files back
01:29:36 ◼ ► nothing that's the safest approach and I think that's good enough honestly I think that you
01:29:50 ◼ ► this as such but I would choose use Migration Assistant like yeah I mean it Migration Assistant
01:30:01 ◼ ► means it works if you're wiping so if you're upgrading to a new MacBook Pro you know use
01:30:08 ◼ ► Migration Assistant right like have one one device next to the other ideally like close
01:30:13 ◼ ► to each other or on Ethernet or something like that because you're gonna be transferring
01:30:20 ◼ ► and that's the way and in my experience you don't lose stuff when you do that it's Migration
01:30:29 ◼ ► All right next up comes from Jimmy and Jimmy wants to know do you think Apple should support
01:30:46 ◼ ► on the Mac for widgets like they're pointless in Notification Center I find because first
01:30:57 ◼ ► and out of mind the whole point of widgets on iPad and iPhone is that they're right there
01:31:08 ◼ ► on the Mac I guess it's the desktop so yeah I feel like having a widget layer on the desktop
01:31:22 ◼ ► is a problem that's how I felt about dashboard too is some people love dashboard but I always
01:31:26 ◼ ► felt like I never thought to look at dashboard and the lance ability means that I can glance
01:31:31 ◼ ► and see it and not like hit a keyboard shortcut in order to see it so that would lead me to
01:31:36 ◼ ► believe that yeah there probably should be a visible layer that's just out you can call
01:31:40 ◼ ► it on the desktop but maybe it's floating you know and it can float at the top or float
01:31:58 ◼ ► with iPad multitasking and do something that's more like a floating window system one of
01:32:07 ◼ ► the great unexplored questions is what's beneath the floating windows like is it just a wallpaper
01:32:17 ◼ ► is it a desktop do you see the like app icons back there or something that kind of doesn't
01:32:22 ◼ ► make sense but I say this because if you could attach an iPad to a big display and have a
01:32:30 ◼ ► like a wallpaper and a bunch of floating windows could you put widgets back on the background
01:32:38 ◼ ► too I don't know it and if you could this is a conversation that Apple today would probably
01:32:46 ◼ ► have about the Mac and the iPad together right which is like how do we want this to work
01:32:56 ◼ ► we'll want to do it the same way in both places maybe and so that gives me a little hesitation
01:33:03 ◼ ► but in general I'm just gonna complexity aside yes I would like to be able to add widgets
01:33:09 ◼ ► on my Mac and see them without having to do a swipe or hit a keyboard shortcut that would
01:33:22 ◼ ► I just don't do it I have a couple of folders that are there but you know one of them is
01:34:03 ◼ ► better way like to be used better on my Mac right it's now you know Apple has deemed my
01:34:09 ◼ ► iPhone on my iPad screen good enough for widgets what about my Mac home screen you know and
01:34:22 ◼ ► another another Mac like option right like what if I have a weather widget put a little
01:34:25 ◼ ► weather icon in the menu bar and I click on it and I see the widget that would be a way
01:34:29 ◼ ► that you could do a Mac spin on it where maybe the weather bar is not an icon maybe you could
01:34:34 ◼ ► put the temperature up there or a little mini forecast up there in the menu bar and then
01:34:42 ◼ ► a menu bar component there are a bunch of things they could do but I agree I would like
01:34:47 ◼ ► them to do something because the only time I ever used dashboard widgets was using that
01:34:53 ◼ ► trick where you could like drag them out when you were in the middle of the transition you
01:34:58 ◼ ► like press the dashboard button to close it but you're already clicking and dragging there
01:35:02 ◼ ► was a way you could basically sneak them out of the dashboard layer and onto the desktop
01:35:10 ◼ ► the F key to get the dashboard to show I just out of sight out of mind with me so I don't
01:35:16 ◼ ► I don't want I don't want that and that's why I don't use widgets on the Mac today same
01:35:25 ◼ ► like that whole place over there I don't want to I don't want to see it I don't want to
01:35:28 ◼ ► go there last question comes from Starling do you think the improvements to Swift playgrounds
01:35:46 ◼ ► the problem with coding on the iPad is that there are so many complexities in Xcode that
01:35:52 ◼ ► go back a long way and you have to have compilers you have to support all sorts of different
01:36:02 ◼ ► into Xcode Xcode is very complex and includes stuff that Apple would have to run on the
01:36:18 ◼ ► my guess is that Apple wants to evolve Swift playgrounds into a full featured coding environment
01:36:27 ◼ ► on the iPad for the next generation of apps yeah when the time is right to say we're all
01:36:42 ◼ ► it playgrounds anymore they'll probably need to actually call it something else but I think
01:36:48 ◼ ► Apple's goal with it is that it will become more common to write new apps just using Swift
01:36:55 ◼ ► and Swift UI and those can be done on the iPad but if you want the legacy of like using
01:37:03 ◼ ► the old stuff using Objective C using other stuff like that and having all of that weight
01:37:09 ◼ ► of Xcode I could see them just saying that's why you have a Mac that's over there but what
01:37:20 ◼ ► development environment in public on the iPad that's this simplified environment that's
01:37:32 ◼ ► to use and unrealistic for a long time because there's going to be legacy code base that's
01:37:37 ◼ ► not using Swift so what do they do about that I don't know maybe they could go down that
01:37:49 ◼ ► this is just for the future and it's for these idealized apps that are just in Swift and
01:37:54 ◼ ► that's it but you know they have the ability to do you know virtualization and they could
01:37:59 ◼ ► put you know they could put all the all the old stuff in a in a box that was locked down
01:38:04 ◼ ► and but you could still use it like they could do a lot of work and make Xcode work on the
01:38:13 ◼ ► complex system and I could see why they're hesitant to do that so you know I think it's
01:38:18 ◼ ► going to become more full-featured to answer Starling more full-featured but it's an open
01:38:24 ◼ ► question about whether Apple is content at being this sort of like Swift only environment
01:38:30 ◼ ► or whether they really have some goal to make it Xcode on the iPad and I think the more
01:38:38 ◼ ► they add to Swift playgrounds the less encouraged I am that they're actually going to do Xcode
01:38:42 ◼ ► for iPad if that makes sense because they're taking measures in their existing thing to
01:38:47 ◼ ► kind of do half of what you know of that and it seems like they're kind of blunting the
01:39:05 ◼ ► upgrade in the relay FM members discord. Jason would you like to tell listeners of upgrade
01:39:16 ◼ ► Sure how about parallel I remember when Shelly Brisbane the host of parallel pitched parallel
01:39:35 ◼ ► Download she was a regular guest on the download podcast which is dead rip download anyway
01:39:53 ◼ ► and accessibility good show Shelly is great she's a pro and it's a good podcast you should
01:40:05 ◼ ► I'd like to thank our sponsors for this week's episode that is the public sector future podcast
01:40:16 ◼ ► with upgrade plus if you would like longer ad free versions of every episode of upgrade
01:40:21 ◼ ► just go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up right now if you'd like to find Jason
01:40:27 ◼ ► online you can go to sixcolors.com and he is @jsnell j s n e double l i am @imike i m y
01:40:35 ◼ ► k e oh hang on a second do you hear that Jason Snell sounds like the crashing of waves it