Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 378.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Things,

00:00:16 ◼   ► Ooni Pizza Ovens, and HPE Tech Talk.

00:00:19 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snow.

00:00:22 ◼   ► - Hi, Myke Hurley. - Got a big show today.

00:00:25 ◼   ► - There's a lot happening. There's a lot.

00:00:27 ◼   ► It's busy, busy, busy time, busy time in the busy time

00:00:30 ◼   ► of the busy time.

00:00:31 ◼   ► - Jason has had a 14-inch MacBook Pro for a week,

00:00:35 ◼   ► and we're gonna be talking about it in a little bit.

00:00:38 ◼   ► But we have some things that we must get to first,

00:00:40 ◼   ► including our #snowtalk question,

00:00:42 ◼   ► which this week comes from Mark, who asks,

00:00:44 ◼   ► "Jason, what do you do when you're not really into a book?

00:00:48 ◼   ► Do you persevere and finish it?

00:00:50 ◼   ► Do you put it aside and come back to it later,

00:00:53 ◼   ► or do you just choose to give up and stop reading it?"

00:00:55 ◼   ► - A lot of my friends have various policies.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure which one is the most common.

00:01:00 ◼   ► There's a 100-page rule. There's a 33% rule,

00:01:03 ◼   ► which is good to do in an e-reader.

00:01:05 ◼   ► That's basically my policy, too,

00:01:08 ◼   ► is that when I get deep in a book,

00:01:10 ◼   ► I will often persevere and finish it.

00:01:13 ◼   ► But I think the most important thing is that

00:01:15 ◼   ► if it's not working for you and you've given it,

00:01:19 ◼   ► you know, enough of an opportunity,

00:01:21 ◼   ► you've given it 100 pages,

00:01:23 ◼   ► or you've read the first third of it,

00:01:25 ◼   ► I think you do need to give yourself an out,

00:01:27 ◼   ► where you say, "If it's not working for me beyond this point,"

00:01:29 ◼   ► and, you know, some people are gonna be like,

00:01:31 ◼   ► "Oh, I do it in the first 10 pages."

00:01:32 ◼   ► Like, okay, well, everybody's gonna be different.

00:01:35 ◼   ► I feel like you need to give a book a little bit of time

00:01:38 ◼   ► before you declare it dead.

00:01:42 ◼   ► But I did have that happen fairly recently,

00:01:44 ◼   ► where I was, yeah, I forget where I was halfway

00:01:47 ◼   ► or a third of the way through the book,

00:01:48 ◼   ► and I just said, "This isn't working for me,"

00:01:49 ◼   ► and I dumped it.

00:01:50 ◼   ► It happens, and it's okay,

00:01:52 ◼   ► 'cause life's too short to force yourself to read a book

00:01:55 ◼   ► you're not enjoying.

00:01:56 ◼   ► And I notice it most because they're books that are a slog,

00:02:00 ◼   ► and then I get into a next book, and it just is,

00:02:02 ◼   ► I wanna read it, and I pick it up all the time,

00:02:04 ◼   ► and I'm reading it avidly.

00:02:06 ◼   ► And like, you can tell when you're enjoying a book

00:02:09 ◼   ► and when you're not.

00:02:10 ◼   ► So I would say if you don't have this policy,

00:02:12 ◼   ► you should make this policy.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Set something, 100 pages, 33%, whatever it is, 20%.

00:02:17 ◼   ► And if you're not feeling it and you hit that threshold,

00:02:22 ◼   ► bail out, get out of there.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:02:26 ◼   ► 'Cause again, I think saying,

00:02:28 ◼   ► "Oh, well, it's a good book after the first 200 pages,

00:02:32 ◼   ► "which are pretty slow, but then it all comes together."

00:02:34 ◼   ► Like, that can be true,

00:02:36 ◼   ► but I would argue it's not true very often,

00:02:39 ◼   ► and that's the book's fault if it's slow for 200 pages

00:02:44 ◼   ► and then it grabs you later that they screwed it up

00:02:46 ◼   ► and they should have grabbed you sooner.

00:02:48 ◼   ► So there are exceptions.

00:02:51 ◼   ► "Dune" just came out.

00:02:53 ◼   ► And my standard review of the book "Dune"

00:02:56 ◼   ► was that the first 200 pages are really slow

00:03:00 ◼   ► and then it picks up and the rest of it is great.

00:03:02 ◼   ► And that's true.

00:03:04 ◼   ► And I was really bored when I read "Dune."

00:03:06 ◼   ► It was the summer, I had nothing to do.

00:03:08 ◼   ► And that's the only way I got through it,

00:03:11 ◼   ► because while that is actually a good book,

00:03:14 ◼   ► it is one that you get about 150 pages in

00:03:19 ◼   ► and you think to yourself, "I've made a terrible mistake."

00:03:21 ◼   ► So these days, I would just,

00:03:25 ◼   ► if it's a random book, book you're not feeling,

00:03:27 ◼   ► just get rid of it, just move on, find something new.

00:03:29 ◼   ► Set a threshold and then when you reach there,

00:03:32 ◼   ► say to yourself, "Do I really wanna go on with this?"

00:03:35 ◼   ► And I would say at any point beyond that threshold,

00:03:36 ◼   ► by the way, if you're just not enjoying a book,

00:03:38 ◼   ► you should just can it and move on.

00:03:40 ◼   ► I mean, you're throwing good money after bad.

00:03:44 ◼   ► That is a sunk cost.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Get out while you can.

00:03:48 ◼   ► - If you'd like to send in a #SNELtalk for us to open

00:03:51 ◼   ► an episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet

00:03:52 ◼   ► with the #SNELtalk or use ?SNELtalk

00:03:55 ◼   ► in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:03:59 ◼   ► We have been selling brand new Upgrade merchandise

00:04:03 ◼   ► for the past week.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Thank you so much to everybody who has bought

00:04:06 ◼   ► either one of our beautiful new Upgrade logo tees

00:04:09 ◼   ► or wonderful hoodies in brand new colors for this season.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Do not forget, you just have one more week to go and buy

00:04:17 ◼   ► your merchandise at upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Do not delay, do not be sad, you know, like don't miss out

00:04:24 ◼   ► because once it's gone, it's gone.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Who knows when it will come back if ever?

00:04:28 ◼   ► Upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:04:31 ◼   ► - And this is my independent training company.

00:04:33 ◼   ► This is my favorite hoodie.

00:04:34 ◼   ► I own like six or seven different independent training

00:04:36 ◼   ► company hoodies, unlogoed and a couple with our logo.

00:04:40 ◼   ► - Well, I only have logoed ones 'cause we also use them

00:04:44 ◼   ► for the cortex ones 'cause they're such good hoodies.

00:04:46 ◼   ► - It's a really, I got, this was the first hoodie

00:04:48 ◼   ► that I ever was like, oh, I like hoodies now.

00:04:50 ◼   ► And then I went to their website and literally just bought,

00:04:54 ◼   ► I found they sold direct.

00:04:55 ◼   ► You could just get them blank.

00:04:56 ◼   ► And I was like, yes, send me all your hoodies

00:04:58 ◼   ► because they're so great.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And so when we started doing hoodies for Upgrade,

00:05:01 ◼   ► I said, please, Cotton Bureau,

00:05:03 ◼   ► can we use the independent training company hoodie?

00:05:06 ◼   ► And they said, yes.

00:05:07 ◼   ► By the way, we got a bunch of size questions

00:05:08 ◼   ► and I don't have a great answer other than to say

00:05:12 ◼   ► that I wear an XL t-shirt and an XL hoodie.

00:05:15 ◼   ► So I feel like the sizes match pretty well,

00:05:18 ◼   ► but also it's a hoodie.

00:05:19 ◼   ► So I think I feel like better it be a little bit baggy

00:05:22 ◼   ► than it be too tight.

00:05:24 ◼   ► - I wear large and large and it fits fine for me.

00:05:27 ◼   ► - I think it's a pretty good fit.

00:05:28 ◼   ► - I think they're pretty true to size.

00:05:29 ◼   ► - Maybe that their measurements are,

00:05:31 ◼   ► make people overthink it.

00:05:32 ◼   ► And I think maybe don't worry about that part of it so much.

00:05:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, and all of my hoodies are black.

00:05:37 ◼   ► So I'm really excited.

00:05:38 ◼   ► We've got the red and the gray ones.

00:05:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna be getting one of each

00:05:42 ◼   ► because I wanna mix up my hoodie colors

00:05:44 ◼   ► and I'm very excited.

00:05:45 ◼   ► - So just one last time, upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:05:48 ◼   ► A couple of product rumor-y things

00:05:52 ◼   ► that are going on right now.

00:05:54 ◼   ► I just wanted to get them on the record.

00:05:56 ◼   ► So according to display analyst Ross Young via MacRumors,

00:06:01 ◼   ► Apple is apparently planning to introduce a 27-inch iMac

00:06:05 ◼   ► sometime in early 2022 featuring mini LED and ProMotion.

00:06:10 ◼   ► This has gotta be an iMac Pro, right?

00:06:13 ◼   ► That is not just iMac.

00:06:15 ◼   ► - Well, it might be.

00:06:17 ◼   ► I mean, I think the high-end iMac

00:06:20 ◼   ► is gonna be what it's gonna be.

00:06:22 ◼   ► And I still believe that it's gonna be the one model

00:06:27 ◼   ► and they're gonna choose what to call it.

00:06:28 ◼   ► But it could be that they've decided

00:06:32 ◼   ► they're gonna call it iMac Pro.

00:06:33 ◼   ► I think that would be great.

00:06:34 ◼   ► I think that's what they should do, in fact.

00:06:36 ◼   ► I've been really kind of like back and forth on it.

00:06:39 ◼   ► But when I look at what they've announced

00:06:41 ◼   ► and now having used the M1 Macs and the M1 Pro,

00:06:44 ◼   ► I think about what that iMac might look like.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And I feel like calling it iMac Pro is probably a good idea.

00:06:52 ◼   ► But really the most important thing is

00:06:58 ◼   ► I don't think they're gonna make two separate

00:07:00 ◼   ► 27-inch displays for iMacs, right?

00:07:04 ◼   ► Like I think whatever the big iMac is,

00:07:06 ◼   ► there's probably only gonna be one display.

00:07:09 ◼   ► So, and it will probably be mini LED with ProMotion.

00:07:12 ◼   ► So there you go, they can call it Pro or not.

00:07:15 ◼   ► - That's why I think it will be Pro.

00:07:16 ◼   ► 'Cause the only place is where this product,

00:07:19 ◼   ► like this screen, the XDR screen, as they call it,

00:07:23 ◼   ► Super Retina XDR, is only in Pro products.

00:07:26 ◼   ► It's in the iPad Pros and the--

00:07:28 ◼   ► - And they have the 24-inch iMac,

00:07:29 ◼   ► which is an M1 and is a good product.

00:07:32 ◼   ► It's a very good product.

00:07:33 ◼   ► And so why not make that bigger iMac Pro?

00:07:36 ◼   ► Again, Pro doesn't necessarily mean what it has to mean

00:07:41 ◼   ► for the Mac Pro, it just means that it's better.

00:07:43 ◼   ► But looking at these chips, it's very hard for me

00:07:46 ◼   ► to not imagine that the bigger iMac isn't gonna have

00:07:50 ◼   ► at the very least an M1 Pro.

00:07:53 ◼   ► - I expect the Macs and Pro chips will only ever exist

00:07:57 ◼   ► in Pro branded products.

00:07:58 ◼   ► That would be my expectation.

00:08:00 ◼   ► - I think that's probably right.

00:08:01 ◼   ► And in fact, I was listening to some speculation,

00:08:03 ◼   ► I think it was on the ATP last week,

00:08:05 ◼   ► that, which I loved, I'm not sure I believe it,

00:08:09 ◼   ► but I want to believe, which is that you might actually

00:08:13 ◼   ► even see the Jade 2C die, which is basically the 20 core,

00:08:18 ◼   ► where it's two M1 Macs together in an iMac.

00:08:23 ◼   ► And I thought that would be awesome.

00:08:28 ◼   ► Not sure that'll happen, but that would be awesome.

00:08:30 ◼   ► - I wanna see if we can try and standardize here, Jason,

00:08:32 ◼   ► 'cause it's already getting confusing.

00:08:34 ◼   ► You said M1 Macs, you meant the M1 Macs chip, right?

00:08:37 ◼   ► - I did mean the M1 Macs processor.

00:08:40 ◼   ► - So what I've decided, what I've personally decided,

00:08:43 ◼   ► you can do what you want, but I'm gonna call it--

00:08:46 ◼   ► - Style meeting, everybody, upgrade style meeting,

00:08:48 ◼   ► here we go.

00:08:49 ◼   ► - M1 Macs chip, M1 Pro chip, M1 Macs chip.

00:08:51 ◼   ► - And M1 Macintoshes.

00:08:53 ◼   ► - So that could just be M1 Macs is for M1 Macintoshes,

00:08:57 ◼   ► everyone will know what that means.

00:08:58 ◼   ► M1 Macs chip, M1 Pro chip.

00:09:00 ◼   ► And I think that that works fine because it's impossible.

00:09:04 ◼   ► - I didn't know what you meant when you said M1 Macs.

00:09:06 ◼   ► - It is so bad, it is, okay, so what I'm saying is,

00:09:10 ◼   ► they speculated that you might have an M,

00:09:12 ◼   ► how should I put this, an iMac that has an M1 Macs chip

00:09:19 ◼   ► or potentially the 20 core, which is two of them together,

00:09:26 ◼   ► which has been rumored that they're gonna do a two of them,

00:09:29 ◼   ► two M1 Macs chip configuration and a four M1 Macs chip

00:09:34 ◼   ► configuration, and that's what their Mac Pro solution

00:09:38 ◼   ► is gonna be, but in a desktop, you could potentially do that

00:09:41 ◼   ► in a desktop.

00:09:42 ◼   ► - If they put four M1 Macs chips in one computer,

00:09:45 ◼   ► I'm worried that black holes might start forming.

00:09:48 ◼   ► - Yes, well, it may happen, it may, imagine if,

00:09:52 ◼   ► is a Macintosh with an M1 Macs chip an M1 Mac?

00:09:57 ◼   ► Or is it an M1 Macs Mac?

00:10:01 ◼   ► - It's Macs M1 Mac, if somebody called Mac--

00:10:06 ◼   ► - Who's Mac?

00:10:07 ◼   ► - If somebody called Mac has a Mac, is it Macs M1 Macs Macs?

00:10:11 ◼   ► - That's plural, so it'd be if Mac has more than one Mac,

00:10:18 ◼   ► M1 Macintosh, it's very confusing.

00:10:20 ◼   ► - And Mark Gurman reports that he expects no more events

00:10:25 ◼   ► this year, which I just feel that in my bones,

00:10:28 ◼   ► you know, I just feel like we're done.

00:10:30 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:10:32 ◼   ► - But also that there will be an M2 MacBook Air

00:10:35 ◼   ► with new design, it will be expected sometime in 2022,

00:10:39 ◼   ► Gurman says within six to eight months of now,

00:10:41 ◼   ► so kind of like first half of 2022, along with new Mac Mini

00:10:46 ◼   ► and an iPhone SE expected, as well as that 27 inch iMac.

00:10:51 ◼   ► I think that there is a possibility, right,

00:10:54 ◼   ► that there could be like an event in maybe March, April,

00:10:57 ◼   ► where just all of this stuff comes.

00:10:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I also anticipate that we'll be getting this stuff,

00:11:05 ◼   ► although again, with the supply chain,

00:11:07 ◼   ► everything could get pushed back,

00:11:10 ◼   ► but you know, what Gurman reports is really sort of like

00:11:13 ◼   ► that these are what are coming,

00:11:14 ◼   ► we know what's in the pipeline,

00:11:16 ◼   ► but we don't know when they'll get out of the pipeline

00:11:18 ◼   ► and into people's hands.

00:11:20 ◼   ► It does seem like a new Mac Mini that's using these chips

00:11:25 ◼   ► is probably on the way, but my guess is that they wanted

00:11:31 ◼   ► to have all the chips for the laptops,

00:11:34 ◼   ► that they'll worry about the Mac Mini later.

00:11:37 ◼   ► - I hadn't thought of that, but yeah,

00:11:38 ◼   ► maybe they were just like, we're gonna prioritize here

00:11:41 ◼   ► 'cause we're, you know, all of the,

00:11:43 ◼   ► there are reports saying that basically Apple's struggling

00:11:45 ◼   ► with everything over the holiday season,

00:11:49 ◼   ► so they may have just wanted to prioritize

00:11:51 ◼   ► what will be a better selling product

00:11:53 ◼   ► and a product people are more excited about

00:11:55 ◼   ► than if they just then had, you know,

00:11:57 ◼   ► a bunch of the putting in the M1,

00:11:58 ◼   ► they're just splitting what they have

00:11:59 ◼   ► amongst their product line and surely, you know,

00:12:02 ◼   ► I would expect make more money from the laptops

00:12:05 ◼   ► than they would the Mac Mini anyway, so.

00:12:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly right.

00:12:08 ◼   ► So I think that now that we've seen the new chips here,

00:12:13 ◼   ► it is fascinating to think of like the details

00:12:16 ◼   ► of where they're all gonna go

00:12:17 ◼   ► and especially about that Mac Pro out there,

00:12:19 ◼   ► if they really do just have the ability

00:12:21 ◼   ► to take two or four M1 Macs chips

00:12:25 ◼   ► and put them in a configuration together,

00:12:27 ◼   ► like you can imagine what that performance would be like,

00:12:31 ◼   ► it would be pretty amazing.

00:12:32 ◼   ► - So both iOS 15.1 and macOS Monterey

00:12:36 ◼   ► are expected to be out today.

00:12:38 ◼   ► We're not really gonna spend any time

00:12:40 ◼   ► talking about them on this episode.

00:12:41 ◼   ► - Can't wait to use that universal control.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Nope. - Share play?

00:12:45 ◼   ► - Maybe not and share play, yeah, not yet.

00:12:48 ◼   ► - Not yet.

00:12:50 ◼   ► - Next week, we're gonna be talking about Apple's earnings

00:12:54 ◼   ► 'cause that's happening this week on the 28th.

00:12:56 ◼   ► - Thursday, yeah.

00:12:57 ◼   ► - So that's gonna be a part of what I expect

00:12:59 ◼   ► is gonna be a pretty bumper episode next week

00:13:01 ◼   ► because we are also gonna be joined by friends of the show,

00:13:05 ◼   ► Tim Millet and Tom Boger from Apple

00:13:07 ◼   ► and we're gonna be talking about the M1 Pro

00:13:09 ◼   ► and M1 Macs chips.

00:13:11 ◼   ► So we've had Tim and Tom on a couple of times now

00:13:14 ◼   ► and we always really enjoy talking to them

00:13:16 ◼   ► and we always talk about Apple Silicon

00:13:19 ◼   ► when we've had them on before.

00:13:21 ◼   ► We had a really great chat a couple of months,

00:13:23 ◼   ► oh, it's in November, oh man, a couple of months ago

00:13:25 ◼   ► I was gonna say, a year ago.

00:13:26 ◼   ► - It was November. - In November 2020.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Oh my word, what just happened to my brain?

00:13:31 ◼   ► So they're gonna be coming back on

00:13:32 ◼   ► and we're gonna be talking about

00:13:34 ◼   ► all of the new Apple Silicon and what it took

00:13:37 ◼   ► to build these incredibly powerful new chips.

00:13:40 ◼   ► So that's gonna be next week's episode.

00:13:42 ◼   ► - Chip Talk with Tim and Tom next week.

00:13:44 ◼   ► - Oh, I love it, I love it.

00:13:45 ◼   ► - I got three little pieces of upstream headlines

00:13:49 ◼   ► for you, Jason. - Okay.

00:13:50 ◼   ► - Mythic Quest has been renewed for two more seasons.

00:13:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was a question about like,

00:13:54 ◼   ► they didn't announce what they were doing

00:13:56 ◼   ► after they released season two

00:13:58 ◼   ► and season two ends with the feeling

00:14:02 ◼   ► that it could be the end of the show.

00:14:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:05 ◼   ► - And they made no announcements about it

00:14:08 ◼   ► and people were speculating if it was canceled or not

00:14:10 ◼   ► and the people who make it have been busy

00:14:13 ◼   ► doing other stuff too.

00:14:15 ◼   ► But it is renewed for two more seasons

00:14:17 ◼   ► and they put out a fantastic video

00:14:20 ◼   ► to announce the renewal. - It's so good.

00:14:21 ◼   ► I put a link in the show notes to a Vulture article

00:14:23 ◼   ► that has this embedded.

00:14:25 ◼   ► You gotta go watch the video.

00:14:27 ◼   ► It is weird and excellent.

00:14:31 ◼   ► It must, I mean, I see this and it's like,

00:14:33 ◼   ► Rob McElhenny came up with this.

00:14:34 ◼   ► Like, there's no way anybody else came up with this video.

00:14:38 ◼   ► It's really worth watching if you haven't seen it.

00:14:40 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:14:41 ◼   ► - And I was also told about this information

00:14:44 ◼   ► during the Ted Lasso season two recap episode

00:14:47 ◼   ► of The Incomparable that I joined you

00:14:49 ◼   ► and a wonderful panel on which people can go check out,

00:14:52 ◼   ► that Jason Segel and Brett Goldstein,

00:14:55 ◼   ► teaming up with Bill Lawrence for a new comedy show

00:14:58 ◼   ► on Apple TV Plus, and it's about, it's called Shrinking

00:15:03 ◼   ► and this is a quote,

00:15:04 ◼   ► it revolves around a grieving therapist played by Segal

00:15:08 ◼   ► who begins to break the rules and tell his clients

00:15:10 ◼   ► exactly what he thinks, ignoring his training and ethics.

00:15:13 ◼   ► He finds himself making huge changes to people's lives,

00:15:17 ◼   ► including his own.

00:15:19 ◼   ► So it seems like Apple is on the Lawrence Goldstein train.

00:15:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, so this is Brett Goldstein

00:15:25 ◼   ► and Bill Lawrence writing and Jason Segal starring

00:15:28 ◼   ► in this comedy on Apple TV Plus.

00:15:30 ◼   ► So for those who thought that Brett Goldstein

00:15:33 ◼   ► was having a moment, yeah.

00:15:35 ◼   ► - Big moment, he just became a show creator.

00:15:38 ◼   ► It's like, it's a big moment.

00:15:39 ◼   ► - Just on the side.

00:15:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:15:42 ◼   ► - Now I make my own shows, incredible.

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00:18:10 ◼   ► So, Jason Snell, you published a wonderful review,

00:18:16 ◼   ► six colors, about the 14 inch MacBook Pro.

00:18:20 ◼   ► Could you just tell me the specs of the machine

00:18:22 ◼   ► that you have, just for context?

00:18:24 ◼   ► - It's the maximum Macintosh, Myke, with the--

00:18:29 ◼   ► - The maximum Macintosh with the M1 Macintosh maximum chip.

00:18:33 ◼   ► - Yes, exactly.

00:18:34 ◼   ► So it's a 14 inch M1 Macs chip,

00:18:39 ◼   ► 64 gigs of memory, 32 GPU cores.

00:18:44 ◼   ► So all of the things.

00:18:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:47 ◼   ► - Couple of little quotes from the article in the beginning

00:18:50 ◼   ► that I really like.

00:18:51 ◼   ► You call this a new era and say that Apple

00:18:54 ◼   ► has undone its mistakes of the past few years

00:18:57 ◼   ► and created a laptop.

00:18:58 ◼   ► And this is my favorite part.

00:19:00 ◼   ► That's essentially a Mac Pro you can slide into a backpack.

00:19:03 ◼   ► - It's so good, Jason, that I know exactly what you mean.

00:19:06 ◼   ► And it makes me so excited.

00:19:08 ◼   ► - I kept looking at the test results

00:19:10 ◼   ► and thinking of how to put it in.

00:19:12 ◼   ► 'Cause like there's the perspective versus a,

00:19:15 ◼   ► like I have an iMac Pro.

00:19:17 ◼   ► So that's sort of a proxy for the Mac Pro.

00:19:20 ◼   ► Mac Pro is more than the iMac Pro,

00:19:21 ◼   ► but I don't have a Mac Pro.

00:19:24 ◼   ► I have an M1 MacBook Air, right?

00:19:26 ◼   ► And so I'm trying to think of the performance,

00:19:29 ◼   ► but the truth is it is essentially

00:19:33 ◼   ► Mac Pro level performance.

00:19:34 ◼   ► And we can debate, is it like the eight, 10, 12, 14, 16.

00:19:39 ◼   ► I don't know how many cores you have.

00:19:40 ◼   ► There are lots of different core options in the Mac Pro,

00:19:43 ◼   ► but like this is in the ballpark of Mac Pro speed

00:19:47 ◼   ► in the Intel Mac Pro.

00:19:49 ◼   ► And obviously Mac Pro speed is going to be redefined

00:19:51 ◼   ► when they do an Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

00:19:53 ◼   ► There's no doubt about it.

00:19:54 ◼   ► If you imagine that it could potentially be as much

00:19:56 ◼   ► as four times faster than this laptop.

00:19:59 ◼   ► But it is the, for now,

00:20:04 ◼   ► the equivalent of basically a Mac Pro that you,

00:20:07 ◼   ► and a Pro, a small Pro Display XDR

00:20:11 ◼   ► that you can just close up and put in a bag

00:20:13 ◼   ► and walk around and use anywhere on a battery.

00:20:16 ◼   ► And that's really what it is.

00:20:19 ◼   ► - And it's incredible.

00:20:20 ◼   ► I mean, look, I don't think it matters

00:20:22 ◼   ► which Mac Pro you're comparing it to.

00:20:25 ◼   ► It doesn't matter in my eyes, right?

00:20:27 ◼   ► Like if it gets to any Mac Pro, that is a huge deal.

00:20:31 ◼   ► This is a laptop.

00:20:33 ◼   ► This is a 14 inch laptop.

00:20:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:20:36 ◼   ► And I'll point out too, for those who,

00:20:38 ◼   ► I think we mentioned it last time, but like you,

00:20:40 ◼   ► the specs in my 14 inch in front of me

00:20:43 ◼   ► are the same as the max specs in the, sorry,

00:20:46 ◼   ► that's maximum specs in the 16 inch laptop.

00:20:51 ◼   ► There isn't a bigger configuration

00:20:53 ◼   ► that's only in the larger, which I love

00:20:55 ◼   ► because not everybody wants a larger laptop,

00:20:58 ◼   ► even if they want more power.

00:20:59 ◼   ► So there is no difference there, but you're right.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Once you're in the zone where Mac Pros live,

00:21:06 ◼   ► you are bringing Mac Pro performance.

00:21:08 ◼   ► And no, not for everything and not in every way,

00:21:12 ◼   ► and not if you've got a high-end configuration

00:21:14 ◼   ► of the Intel Mac Pro.

00:21:17 ◼   ► Like there are some footnotes that you could put in here,

00:21:20 ◼   ► but in the broadest sense,

00:21:25 ◼   ► this is basically what we think of now

00:21:28 ◼   ► as Mac Pro performance in this laptop.

00:21:30 ◼   ► That's what it is.

00:21:31 ◼   ► - I wonder if like, just as a curiosity,

00:21:35 ◼   ► if the 16 may bench higher

00:21:39 ◼   ► on sustained loads of cooling stuff.

00:21:43 ◼   ► - It may, it's got, I mean, it's got more power coming in,

00:21:46 ◼   ► although I think that's more for the battery.

00:21:49 ◼   ► They've talked about how there's going to be

00:21:51 ◼   ► a high energy mode on the 16.

00:21:55 ◼   ► - High performance mode, is that what it's called?

00:21:57 ◼   ► - Sure, okay. - Or something like that?

00:21:59 ◼   ► - Whatever, it's the max power, maximum power.

00:22:02 ◼   ► - Maximum power for the maximum max.

00:22:04 ◼   ► - For the maximum Macintosh max chip.

00:22:07 ◼   ► So yes, I wonder if there will be a little bit of that

00:22:11 ◼   ► so that the absolute like highest sustained performance

00:22:16 ◼   ► or something like that is in the 16,

00:22:17 ◼   ► but it's, we're splitting hairs at that point.

00:22:21 ◼   ► And if you care enough, then you'll care enough about that.

00:22:25 ◼   ► You'll care enough to do a 16.

00:22:26 ◼   ► I mean, I'll tell you using Final Cut Pro

00:22:29 ◼   ► on a 14 inch display,

00:22:30 ◼   ► when I'm used to using it on a 27 inch display,

00:22:33 ◼   ► I could see how you might want the 16 inch display, right?

00:22:36 ◼   ► Like 14 inch Final Cut Pro,

00:22:39 ◼   ► you're like looking at the pixels of the video

00:22:40 ◼   ► and you're like, I don't know if I can,

00:22:42 ◼   ► like you really kind of want to attach that

00:22:44 ◼   ► to an external monitor

00:22:45 ◼   ► so that you can do a full preview of the video.

00:22:47 ◼   ► And like it is still a laptop screen.

00:22:49 ◼   ► It's an amazing laptop screen, but it's still 14 inches.

00:22:52 ◼   ► So if you're the kind of person who needs that level of power

00:22:55 ◼   ► you may also really want the, and prefer the 16 inch.

00:22:59 ◼   ► And again, even though that's a bigger and heavier laptop,

00:23:01 ◼   ► you're getting a Mac Pro that you can carry around.

00:23:05 ◼   ► So that's pretty good.

00:23:06 ◼   ► - While we're on this, before we get into anything else,

00:23:08 ◼   ► we should probably, I think we should just continue

00:23:10 ◼   ► talking about benchmarks and stuff.

00:23:12 ◼   ► You did a selection of benchmarks, Geekbench benchmarks,

00:23:16 ◼   ► Xcode, Final Cut, and isotope denoising,

00:23:19 ◼   ► and some disk read and write.

00:23:21 ◼   ► The disk read and write was the one

00:23:22 ◼   ► that surprised me the most.

00:23:25 ◼   ► - Well, Apple mentioned it and then they kind of go on.

00:23:27 ◼   ► And the way I put it was in this,

00:23:30 ◼   ► even in this era of SSDs, right?

00:23:33 ◼   ► Like we had that moment where we all transitioned

00:23:35 ◼   ► from spinning disk to solid state.

00:23:37 ◼   ► And it's that moment where for me, at least,

00:23:40 ◼   ► it was the never go back moment.

00:23:41 ◼   ► It was when I got a MacBook Air with an SSD in it

00:23:43 ◼   ► and it was like, oh.

00:23:45 ◼   ► And the truth is having covered computers for 20 years

00:23:50 ◼   ► or more, it's more now, it has always been the case.

00:23:56 ◼   ► If not all the time, most of the time,

00:24:00 ◼   ► and the eras come and go where we get so focused

00:24:04 ◼   ► on the computer chips and we forget about the storage.

00:24:07 ◼   ► And so often the storage is the thing that slows us down,

00:24:11 ◼   ► not the CPU.

00:24:12 ◼   ► It's not that you're waiting for your CPU

00:24:14 ◼   ► to grind through calculations.

00:24:16 ◼   ► It's that you're waiting for the result of the calculations

00:24:18 ◼   ► to get saved to the disk and you wait and wait and wait.

00:24:21 ◼   ► And that was true in the spinning disk era.

00:24:23 ◼   ► But the truth is we got lots of data.

00:24:25 ◼   ► SSD speed is now also a thing that you can think about.

00:24:30 ◼   ► And SSDs in general are amazing,

00:24:34 ◼   ► but I'll tell you doing a save of a big media file

00:24:40 ◼   ► on this MacBook Pro was breathtaking

00:24:44 ◼   ► because the write speed was three times almost as fast

00:24:49 ◼   ► as either my MacBook Air or my iMac Pro SSD.

00:24:55 ◼   ► And that's because this is a new generation of SSDs

00:25:00 ◼   ► and it's a lot faster.

00:25:05 ◼   ► And you can tell, there are moments, right?

00:25:08 ◼   ► I mean, there are moments that are constrained

00:25:09 ◼   ► by the processor where you click a certain thing

00:25:11 ◼   ► or you do a certain thing from menu and you're like,

00:25:14 ◼   ► okay, now the processor is gonna chug for a while.

00:25:17 ◼   ► And then there are those things you do

00:25:18 ◼   ► and it's usually like save.

00:25:21 ◼   ► Like I'm gonna save this audio file

00:25:22 ◼   ► and it's a three hour long uncompressed audio file.

00:25:26 ◼   ► And what it needs to do is it needs to write out

00:25:28 ◼   ► the new file while reading the data

00:25:31 ◼   ► from either memory or from disk.

00:25:32 ◼   ► And it's like a disk based thing.

00:25:35 ◼   ► And you do that on the MacBook Pro and you go,

00:25:38 ◼   ► oh, that progress bar moved way faster

00:25:43 ◼   ► than I expected it to.

00:25:44 ◼   ► And that happened a lot.

00:25:45 ◼   ► So like my test in here of iZotope, DeNoise,

00:25:48 ◼   ► which is interesting because it's an Intel test,

00:25:50 ◼   ► it's running in Rosetta and it matched to the second,

00:25:54 ◼   ► the score of my iMac Pro,

00:25:56 ◼   ► which I'll point out in Rosetta,

00:26:00 ◼   ► it matched the score of my iMac Pro.

00:26:02 ◼   ► What I didn't mention is the amount of time

00:26:06 ◼   ► when I press save and I should have measured it

00:26:09 ◼   ► 'cause that wasn't close at all.

00:26:11 ◼   ► - Oh wow.

00:26:12 ◼   ► - Press save and the iMac's like, okay, all right,

00:26:15 ◼   ► I guess I'll save this now.

00:26:16 ◼   ► And the Mac Pro is like saved, amazing.

00:26:20 ◼   ► - I have a theory about that iZotope thing.

00:26:23 ◼   ► I wonder if that's just the maximum speed

00:26:25 ◼   ► that app can work at.

00:26:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:26:28 ◼   ► 'Cause it's too weird to me.

00:26:30 ◼   ► - No faster, I can't go any faster than this.

00:26:32 ◼   ► - It doesn't really make sense why it would be

00:26:34 ◼   ► exactly the same result as the iMac Pro?

00:26:37 ◼   ► - I think it's just luck, honestly.

00:26:39 ◼   ► I think it's just luck, but it is remarkable

00:26:41 ◼   ► that it's getting that speed in Rosetta

00:26:44 ◼   ► because of course iZotope still hasn't done a native version

00:26:49 ◼   ► but it is, this is why, by the way,

00:26:51 ◼   ► that little chart is why I still use an iMac Pro

00:26:55 ◼   ► and haven't switched to an M1 Mac to do my job

00:26:57 ◼   ► is that you can see that the M1 takes twice as long

00:27:01 ◼   ► to do that job as my iMac Pro because of Rosetta.

00:27:06 ◼   ► But the MacBook Pro basically has caught up

00:27:09 ◼   ► even though it's emulating and translating that code.

00:27:12 ◼   ► But yeah, some of the other,

00:27:14 ◼   ► like the disk writes and reads are all faster.

00:27:18 ◼   ► I did a Final Cut Pro export where I set a project

00:27:20 ◼   ► to Steven Hackett on his 12 core Mac Pro

00:27:23 ◼   ► and it was faster, but not a lot faster, but faster,

00:27:27 ◼   ► like 30 seconds faster at doing that export

00:27:30 ◼   ► and a lot faster than the computers that I had here to test.

00:27:34 ◼   ► And James Thompson sent me his,

00:27:36 ◼   ► he actually sent me last November and I've kept it,

00:27:39 ◼   ► but I forgot the password,

00:27:40 ◼   ► so he had to tell me the password again,

00:27:42 ◼   ► the crown jewels of the Dice by Pcalc 2.0 source code.

00:27:47 ◼   ► And that was 18 seconds to build it

00:27:52 ◼   ► versus 30 seconds on the M1 Air

00:27:55 ◼   ► and 36 seconds on the iMac Pro.

00:27:57 ◼   ► So a lot faster.

00:27:59 ◼   ► I know the developers out there basically

00:28:01 ◼   ► going from an eight core iMac Pro to this MacBook Pro

00:28:04 ◼   ► half the time to do a build in Xcode.

00:28:07 ◼   ► - There's nothing in this list that I'm not surprised about.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Like every single one of these,

00:28:14 ◼   ► it's like I expected it all to be really, really good,

00:28:17 ◼   ► but like the GPU score,

00:28:20 ◼   ► 66,688, just like crushing the iMac Pro.

00:28:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, and again,

00:28:28 ◼   ► I don't have a Mac Pro with the highest test GPU.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I should call up John Syracuse and say,

00:28:35 ◼   ► run the metal test in Geekbench and tell me what you get.

00:28:37 ◼   ► And it may be better, but again, this is a laptop.

00:28:40 ◼   ► - This is a laptop.

00:28:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:28:42 ◼   ► - This is a machine that can produce those scores on battery.

00:28:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's really the thing here is that

00:28:48 ◼   ► I'm sure we're gonna get those stories.

00:28:50 ◼   ► You know how sometimes I predict the stories

00:28:51 ◼   ► that we're gonna get?

00:28:52 ◼   ► Like it was clear that the M1 was gonna have the backlash

00:28:55 ◼   ► where people were like,

00:28:56 ◼   ► yeah, but it isn't as good as this professional system.

00:28:58 ◼   ► It's like, it's not a professional system.

00:29:00 ◼   ► We're gonna get the, well, yeah,

00:29:01 ◼   ► but it's not as good as this high-end desktop computer.

00:29:05 ◼   ► And we're gonna say, well, yeah, but it's a laptop.

00:29:09 ◼   ► And that's the point.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Like Apple still hasn't done

00:29:11 ◼   ► their high-end desktop computers, right?

00:29:13 ◼   ► They still haven't gone there yet,

00:29:15 ◼   ► but we now have the high-end laptop

00:29:16 ◼   ► and we can see that the high-end laptop

00:29:18 ◼   ► is as functional basically as their old high-end desktops

00:29:21 ◼   ► were, which is a pretty good trick.

00:29:23 ◼   ► - I just feel like we are in a once in a generation

00:29:28 ◼   ► kind of leap at the moment.

00:29:30 ◼   ► Like it really like this doesn't come along

00:29:32 ◼   ► very often kind of leap.

00:29:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, this is that processor transition thing

00:29:37 ◼   ► where everything is gonna, the M1 did it.

00:29:39 ◼   ► Now we're still in that.

00:29:40 ◼   ► And we're gonna be in it again

00:29:42 ◼   ► when they do these rumored 20 and 40 core things.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Like that's gonna be the era where every,

00:29:47 ◼   ► if you compare like to like previous generation

00:29:51 ◼   ► to current generation,

00:29:53 ◼   ► where you're gonna see these enormous jumps.

00:29:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:29:56 ◼   ► - And that's, and also, it's not all performance

00:29:59 ◼   ► because some of it is the power thing

00:30:01 ◼   ► and Apple likes its power efficiency charts and all that,

00:30:04 ◼   ► but it's true.

00:30:05 ◼   ► That's part of it too,

00:30:06 ◼   ► is that they either can fit inside the envelope of a laptop

00:30:11 ◼   ► with that kind of power because of the,

00:30:13 ◼   ► because they are not using as much energy

00:30:16 ◼   ► and throwing off as much heat.

00:30:18 ◼   ► That's part of the story too.

00:30:21 ◼   ► And then the battery life ends up being extended

00:30:25 ◼   ► because of that.

00:30:26 ◼   ► - You said in the review that in most instances

00:30:29 ◼   ► you were just using the efficiency cores though, right?

00:30:31 ◼   ► Which I found really interesting.

00:30:33 ◼   ► - Well, when you're doing like computer stuff

00:30:36 ◼   ► and not pro work, right?

00:30:38 ◼   ► Where I'm hammering the GPU, I'm exporting video,

00:30:41 ◼   ► I'm processing multiple audio streams, all of those things.

00:30:44 ◼   ► When I'm just looking at the web and checking email,

00:30:48 ◼   ► activity monitor showed that basically,

00:30:50 ◼   ► 'cause remember it only has two efficiency cores,

00:30:52 ◼   ► it doesn't have four.

00:30:53 ◼   ► So there's this concern that maybe that means

00:30:55 ◼   ► that it's gonna have to use those performance cores

00:30:57 ◼   ► and it's gonna be a hit to battery life.

00:30:59 ◼   ► The truth is Apple, I think profiled regular use

00:31:04 ◼   ► and figured that for this chip,

00:31:05 ◼   ► they could get away with two efficiency cores

00:31:07 ◼   ► and then they spike a performance core

00:31:09 ◼   ► kind of when they need to.

00:31:11 ◼   ► And maybe we'll talk about this with Tim and Tom next week.

00:31:14 ◼   ► - Yes, we're gonna bring it up

00:31:15 ◼   ► 'cause I'm really interested about that.

00:31:17 ◼   ► In my kind of regular use, those performance cores

00:31:22 ◼   ► would light up every now and then briefly

00:31:26 ◼   ► and then they would stop.

00:31:27 ◼   ► But most of the work was happening on the efficiency cores.

00:31:30 ◼   ► And I think Apple would make the point

00:31:32 ◼   ► that the performance cores are still pretty efficient

00:31:35 ◼   ► and the efficiency cores have a lot of performance

00:31:38 ◼   ► so they can get away with it.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And in practical terms, the battery life,

00:31:43 ◼   ► I didn't do any battery testing in part

00:31:45 ◼   ► because I had a limited amount of time

00:31:46 ◼   ► to do everything that I needed to do for these systems.

00:31:48 ◼   ► And also to do a battery test,

00:31:50 ◼   ► you basically have to run it constantly

00:31:52 ◼   ► for a very long time.

00:31:54 ◼   ► And I had a hard time draining this battery at all.

00:31:59 ◼   ► It was really hard because you really need to use it

00:32:02 ◼   ► extensively and push it all day

00:32:08 ◼   ► to really make a dent on it.

00:32:09 ◼   ► And I was not able to do that amount of work.

00:32:13 ◼   ► So the battery life is gonna be pretty good.

00:32:15 ◼   ► And a bunch of people asked about the fans.

00:32:17 ◼   ► Fan sound is gonna be different for everybody,

00:32:20 ◼   ► sensitivity for fan sound.

00:32:22 ◼   ► I used to use MacBook Airs that blew those fans

00:32:24 ◼   ► whenever you did anything and it was unpleasant.

00:32:29 ◼   ► I think Apple's fan design has gotten better lately.

00:32:33 ◼   ► The fans in my iMac Pro are silent.

00:32:36 ◼   ► I cannot tell that they're blowing.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I have to stick, I literally stick my hand back

00:32:40 ◼   ► behind my iMac to the vent and I'm like,

00:32:43 ◼   ► oh yeah, warm air is coming out now.

00:32:45 ◼   ► That's it, I can't tell.

00:32:47 ◼   ► This, you can hear the fan.

00:32:49 ◼   ► It was hard for me to get the fans to be audible.

00:32:53 ◼   ► I had to really work at it.

00:32:54 ◼   ► I had to do a GPU benchmark that pushed the GPU

00:32:58 ◼   ► as far as it could go.

00:33:00 ◼   ► So it's sort of like, it's a laptop.

00:33:02 ◼   ► The bottom gets a little bit warm and then the fan comes on.

00:33:05 ◼   ► I'd say the fan is very slow, or not very slow.

00:33:08 ◼   ► The fan is very quiet.

00:33:10 ◼   ► And it was hard for me to get it on at all.

00:33:14 ◼   ► But everybody's gonna be different

00:33:15 ◼   ► in terms of their sensitivity

00:33:17 ◼   ► and in terms of what they do for their job.

00:33:18 ◼   ► But I don't think fan noise is gonna be an issue.

00:33:20 ◼   ► I don't think this is gonna be like one of those

00:33:23 ◼   ► latter day iMacs with the bad cooling system

00:33:26 ◼   ► where they would stick an i9 in there,

00:33:28 ◼   ► but they didn't have the iMac Pro cooling system.

00:33:29 ◼   ► And so the fans would just be,

00:33:30 ◼   ► (imitates fan)

00:33:32 ◼   ► in order to cool it all down.

00:33:34 ◼   ► I think we're in a different era in terms of cooling

00:33:37 ◼   ► and that Apple's fan game is much better than that.

00:33:40 ◼   ► So it was not audible, I would say, but not annoying.

00:33:44 ◼   ► And even when it was audible was super rare.

00:33:47 ◼   ► - I've only ever heard the fans on my iMac,

00:33:50 ◼   ► my M1 iMac, like once.

00:33:53 ◼   ► And it surprised me

00:33:56 ◼   ► 'cause I didn't know what the noise was.

00:33:58 ◼   ► - Ah. (laughs)

00:33:59 ◼   ► - 'Cause I hadn't heard it because I never hear them.

00:34:02 ◼   ► - This is, I mean, it is a podcast,

00:34:03 ◼   ► but I'll just say if I can do this myself,

00:34:05 ◼   ► I would say, I feel like the difference is between a,

00:34:08 ◼   ► (imitates fan)

00:34:10 ◼   ► and a,

00:34:11 ◼   ► (imitates fan)

00:34:13 ◼   ► that's sort of, that's my little ASMR for today.

00:34:16 ◼   ► - Very nice.

00:34:17 ◼   ► - It's not, Apple has done a lot of work

00:34:19 ◼   ► on making the fans seem less annoying,

00:34:24 ◼   ► but again, it was also hard for me to kick them in at all.

00:34:26 ◼   ► So I think they did a pretty good job with it.

00:34:28 ◼   ► And keep in mind, I have the highest, the maximum,

00:34:32 ◼   ► - Maximum chip.

00:34:34 ◼   ► - Maximum max chip.

00:34:36 ◼   ► Yes.

00:34:37 ◼   ► - How does it feel to hold?

00:34:39 ◼   ► Like, what does it, how does it feel when you're using it?

00:34:41 ◼   ► What do you think of the looks of this machine?

00:34:44 ◼   ► Like, I'm intrigued.

00:34:46 ◼   ► - It's different.

00:34:47 ◼   ► It reminds me of the titanium from 20 years ago

00:34:50 ◼   ► in that the screen is, the back of the screen is flat.

00:34:54 ◼   ► You know, the aluminum laptops have had this,

00:34:58 ◼   ► a little bit of a curve to them

00:35:01 ◼   ► that is more pronounced at the edges,

00:35:03 ◼   ► but it's like a little, a little domey.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And this is not like that.

00:35:08 ◼   ► This is a flat edge or a flat side.

00:35:11 ◼   ► And then at the edge, at the back of the screen,

00:35:13 ◼   ► a very tight curve.

00:35:15 ◼   ► And then of course it's got the round,

00:35:16 ◼   ► you know, it's got the rounded edges.

00:35:18 ◼   ► When you look at it from top down, the corners are rounded,

00:35:22 ◼   ► but the actual edges are much kind of like tighter.

00:35:24 ◼   ► The curves are pulled in much tighter.

00:35:26 ◼   ► They're not like 90 degree angles, right?

00:35:28 ◼   ► Where it's gonna, you're gonna cut yourself on the,

00:35:31 ◼   ► on the outside.

00:35:32 ◼   ► On the inside, they are more 90 degree angle-ish,

00:35:35 ◼   ► although they're not sharp and it's not gonna bother me.

00:35:37 ◼   ► But on the outside, they're tighter, I would say.

00:35:42 ◼   ► And so it definitely feels different.

00:35:43 ◼   ► Also, when you pick it up, you will feel,

00:35:46 ◼   ► as you pick it up, you will feel,

00:35:47 ◼   ► I didn't mention this in the review,

00:35:48 ◼   ► but you can feel the slots 'cause the cooling vents

00:35:53 ◼   ► are right there on the sides at the bottom.

00:35:57 ◼   ► And so when you pick it up, you will actually feel the vents.

00:36:01 ◼   ► They're right there.

00:36:03 ◼   ► - That's not been a thing for a while, right?

00:36:04 ◼   ► I didn't even really think about those vents.

00:36:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, they're right there.

00:36:09 ◼   ► You can feel them.

00:36:10 ◼   ► They're noticeable when you pick it up.

00:36:11 ◼   ► I mean, you get used to it,

00:36:12 ◼   ► but it's a different kind of feel.

00:36:15 ◼   ► And, you know, I think it looks great.

00:36:17 ◼   ► It is different, not too different.

00:36:19 ◼   ► I think Apple still struggles with the fact that they feel

00:36:22 ◼   ► that they can basically, they nailed it

00:36:23 ◼   ► and they know what a laptop should look like.

00:36:26 ◼   ► And they don't wanna change just for novelty.

00:36:28 ◼   ► They're like, they kinda, they figure they kinda got it.

00:36:31 ◼   ► And when I did 20 Max for 2020 last year,

00:36:33 ◼   ► one of the things I said was that the titanium

00:36:35 ◼   ► was sort of like Apple's first moment of like,

00:36:38 ◼   ► oh yeah, silver metallic laptop, this is what we need to do.

00:36:41 ◼   ► And then they've iterated on that somewhat.

00:36:43 ◼   ► This is the biggest change I think in quite a while.

00:36:46 ◼   ► It's not that big a change,

00:36:47 ◼   ► but I think it's the biggest change in quite a while

00:36:49 ◼   ► in that they've changed those curves and those edges

00:36:53 ◼   ► and made something that, like,

00:36:57 ◼   ► for years now you've been able to look at a Mac laptop

00:37:00 ◼   ► closed on a table somewhere

00:37:02 ◼   ► and not really been able to detect,

00:37:04 ◼   ► unless you look at the ports or something,

00:37:06 ◼   ► what year it's from, or if it's space gray

00:37:08 ◼   ► and you know that they used to not make space gray,

00:37:10 ◼   ► whatever it is, right?

00:37:11 ◼   ► But my point is that in the last 10 years,

00:37:14 ◼   ► a random Apple laptop, especially a random MacBook Pro,

00:37:18 ◼   ► would just, they all look kinda the same, right?

00:37:22 ◼   ► And that's what I will say about this one,

00:37:25 ◼   ► is you could pick it out.

00:37:27 ◼   ► Like in a crowd of Mac laptops from the last 10 years,

00:37:30 ◼   ► you see this one, you're like, oh, that's different.

00:37:32 ◼   ► That's not like these others.

00:37:33 ◼   ► It is absolutely noticeable that it's not the same.

00:37:37 ◼   ► And to me, closed, it's because of that flatness of the top.

00:37:42 ◼   ► It is striking when you see it.

00:37:46 ◼   ► Now, whether people like it or not, I don't know.

00:37:48 ◼   ► It's different.

00:37:50 ◼   ► I think it's fun because it's different

00:37:51 ◼   ► and therefore novel.

00:37:55 ◼   ► In the long run, I guess everybody's gonna make up

00:37:58 ◼   ► their own mind about how they feel about how they look.

00:38:00 ◼   ► - To think about the weight and size of the machine,

00:38:03 ◼   ► it is significantly heavier than the machine

00:38:07 ◼   ► that replaces the 14.

00:38:08 ◼   ► I know you don't have a 13 inch MacBook Pro there.

00:38:10 ◼   ► - I don't.

00:38:11 ◼   ► I would say as a MacBook Air user,

00:38:13 ◼   ► I did not feel like I was super burdened by using it.

00:38:18 ◼   ► It's a bigger laptop than my Air, obviously.

00:38:24 ◼   ► But it's also a Mac Pro, right?

00:38:27 ◼   ► So, and the screen is amazing.

00:38:29 ◼   ► So I'm gonna, again, I can't say if somebody's carrying

00:38:33 ◼   ► a 13 inch MacBook Pro with four ports around now

00:38:35 ◼   ► and they replace it with this,

00:38:37 ◼   ► I can't make a judgment on how they're gonna feel.

00:38:41 ◼   ► My guess is that it's not gonna matter

00:38:43 ◼   ► because even if it's a little bit heavier,

00:38:45 ◼   ► it's got that great performance and the great battery life.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And so it doesn't matter.

00:38:50 ◼   ► But for me, I was surprised that I didn't have as much

00:38:53 ◼   ► of the, "Oh, these big laptops kind of feel," as I did.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Like when we did our thing where I went to New York

00:39:01 ◼   ► and I got the 16 inch MacBook Pro two years ago,

00:39:04 ◼   ► that's a beast.

00:39:07 ◼   ► Like I was like, "Oh, this giant laptop, oh."

00:39:10 ◼   ► And I had to like put it in my bag to carry it home

00:39:12 ◼   ► on the plane and like, it was like, "This is so huge."

00:39:15 ◼   ► I don't feel that way about the 14 inch.

00:39:17 ◼   ► It's good.

00:39:20 ◼   ► - You mentioned the screen.

00:39:21 ◼   ► Let's talk about the screen.

00:39:22 ◼   ► What has been your impression so far with the new display?

00:39:25 ◼   ► - You know, in another device,

00:39:28 ◼   ► the screen would be the story, right?

00:39:30 ◼   ► Like the keyboard used to be the story.

00:39:31 ◼   ► The keyboard's not the story anymore.

00:39:32 ◼   ► The keyboard is, we haven't talked about it yet.

00:39:35 ◼   ► We'll talk about it.

00:39:36 ◼   ► It's kind of boring, which in a good way, in the best way.

00:39:39 ◼   ► The screen would be the story

00:39:42 ◼   ► if it weren't for those chips, right?

00:39:44 ◼   ► 'Cause the screen, okay, first off,

00:39:46 ◼   ► it is extended dynamic range, mini LED backlight.

00:39:51 ◼   ► It is a beautiful screen.

00:39:55 ◼   ► It looks great.

00:39:56 ◼   ► It looks great in the dark.

00:39:57 ◼   ► It looks great in dark mode.

00:39:59 ◼   ► It looks great with photos.

00:40:00 ◼   ► It is, like there were moments

00:40:04 ◼   ► where I would be using the laptop

00:40:06 ◼   ► and I would get a glimpse of my desktop background.

00:40:09 ◼   ► I'd be like, "Oh, right.

00:40:11 ◼   ► "Oh, this is a much better screen

00:40:15 ◼   ► "than the one I'm used to using."

00:40:17 ◼   ► Very impressive.

00:40:20 ◼   ► The ProMotion is a mixed bag.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Now you and I have gone back and forth

00:40:25 ◼   ► about ProMotion on the iPhone.

00:40:28 ◼   ► - You enjoy it on the iPad, right?

00:40:30 ◼   ► So like, you say you might notice it there.

00:40:32 ◼   ► So in theory, you're more primed for this one than me even.

00:40:35 ◼   ► - And on the iPhone, my feeling is more just

00:40:38 ◼   ► that I prefer the smaller phone to ProMotion

00:40:41 ◼   ► if I have to choose, which I do, so I did.

00:40:43 ◼   ► But it's a nice feature.

00:40:46 ◼   ► On the Mac, what I would say is it's a mixed bag

00:40:48 ◼   ► mostly because the software support isn't there.

00:40:52 ◼   ► It feels to me like a lot of software support,

00:40:54 ◼   ► third-party apps, but also some system stuff

00:40:57 ◼   ► is still not there.

00:40:58 ◼   ► I was trying to take for our friend, friend of the show,

00:41:01 ◼   ► James Thompson, wanted me to do a capture

00:41:03 ◼   ► of his dice app running at 120 frames per second

00:41:07 ◼   ► on the Mac, and I used, you know,

00:41:11 ◼   ► Command + Shift + 5 to do that.

00:41:14 ◼   ► And it gave me a movie that ran

00:41:15 ◼   ► at less than 60 frames per second.

00:41:18 ◼   ► It's like, what are you doing?

00:41:20 ◼   ► I'm at 120 now.

00:41:21 ◼   ► It's like, well, that system image capture thing

00:41:24 ◼   ► doesn't want to do that.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Okay, probably should look at that, Apple.

00:41:28 ◼   ► But this is true throughout where there are apps

00:41:32 ◼   ► and all the Catalyst apps get it, right?

00:41:34 ◼   ► Because all the Catalyst apps

00:41:35 ◼   ► already had to do this for the iPad.

00:41:37 ◼   ► - Right, so that's the difference, right?

00:41:39 ◼   ► Like this is all much better handled

00:41:42 ◼   ► if you're using the iOS set of technologies

00:41:44 ◼   ► than the macOS set of technologies.

00:41:47 ◼   ► - Right, and it's not that you can't do it on the Mac,

00:41:49 ◼   ► it's that the Mac stuff hasn't had to be adapted for it yet,

00:41:51 ◼   ► and the iPad stuff has.

00:41:54 ◼   ► And so you open a Catalyst app and you scroll,

00:41:57 ◼   ► and it's this super smooth scroll.

00:42:00 ◼   ► You open some Mac apps and you scroll,

00:42:02 ◼   ► and it's just like, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh,

00:42:04 ◼   ► right, because they have made no effort

00:42:06 ◼   ► to use the enhanced frame rate.

00:42:08 ◼   ► And you can argue like, do you need the buttery scrolling?

00:42:11 ◼   ► Well, the answer is you got 120 hertz display.

00:42:14 ◼   ► - So yes. - You should use

00:42:14 ◼   ► the buttery scrolling.

00:42:16 ◼   ► You should do that.

00:42:16 ◼   ► - And it's not that it's worse, right?

00:42:18 ◼   ► Like it hasn't made it worse,

00:42:20 ◼   ► it's just you're not getting the great benefit.

00:42:22 ◼   ► - No, the truth is just in some apps,

00:42:24 ◼   ► it's super smooth scrolling and stuff,

00:42:26 ◼   ► and in other apps, it's not.

00:42:28 ◼   ► It's like every other Mac that's ever existed before now.

00:42:31 ◼   ► And so what I'm really saying is

00:42:34 ◼   ► it's gonna take a little bit of time for Mac software

00:42:38 ◼   ► to get to wrap its head around the idea

00:42:41 ◼   ► that it now has 120 hertz display built into a computer.

00:42:45 ◼   ► It's not like the Mac couldn't output it on 120 hertz before,

00:42:49 ◼   ► but it matters more now

00:42:51 ◼   ► that you're just selling laptops that have that.

00:42:54 ◼   ► And it is nicer.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Like again, is it a big deal that in BB edit,

00:43:00 ◼   ► when I scroll, it's a little chunky,

00:43:02 ◼   ► and that in this random catalyst text editor

00:43:05 ◼   ► that comes from iOS, that it is smooth?

00:43:08 ◼   ► In the end, it doesn't matter,

00:43:10 ◼   ► but it's now so fundamentally part of,

00:43:13 ◼   ► I think as of today, part of the Mac experience,

00:43:17 ◼   ► and every pro laptop probably from here on out

00:43:19 ◼   ► will always have this feature,

00:43:21 ◼   ► that if you make a pro app or really an app on the Mac,

00:43:25 ◼   ► you should do whatever work needs to be done

00:43:28 ◼   ► to take advantage of that frame rate.

00:43:32 ◼   ► - What do you think about the notch?

00:43:34 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:36 ◼   ► - You know, the notch,

00:43:40 ◼   ► everybody, when that rumor came out that was right,

00:43:43 ◼   ► that was like, oh, it's gonna have a notch,

00:43:45 ◼   ► at the last minute, everybody was like,

00:43:47 ◼   ► oh my God, I can't believe it.

00:43:49 ◼   ► And I will tell you after using it for a week,

00:43:52 ◼   ► the Mac having a menu bar from day one in 1984

00:43:57 ◼   ► is the best thing ever for the people at Apple

00:44:02 ◼   ► who had to figure out this display notch thing.

00:44:06 ◼   ► Because the display notch and the menu bar,

00:44:10 ◼   ► they go together.

00:44:11 ◼   ► The whole way it's built is that there's a menu bar area

00:44:16 ◼   ► and the notch is in it.

00:44:17 ◼   ► And yes, that means that if you've got a lot of menus

00:44:19 ◼   ► in your app, they will wrap around.

00:44:21 ◼   ► And in fact, the lead screenshot in my review,

00:44:24 ◼   ► if you look carefully, it's a very pretty picture

00:44:27 ◼   ► of a MacBook Pro with a satellite picture on the desktop.

00:44:31 ◼   ► And if you look up in the menu bar though,

00:44:32 ◼   ► you'll see BB edit and you will see a couple

00:44:35 ◼   ► of the menu items on the right side of the notch.

00:44:38 ◼   ► Because they didn't fit on the left side.

00:44:42 ◼   ► So that will happen.

00:44:43 ◼   ► I think Apple's got a little bit of like,

00:44:45 ◼   ► it makes some attempts to fit things in

00:44:47 ◼   ► and shrink things up a little bit to fit them

00:44:49 ◼   ► on the left side.

00:44:50 ◼   ► But if they can't do it,

00:44:51 ◼   ► they pop them over to the right side.

00:44:52 ◼   ► It's not great.

00:44:53 ◼   ► But in general, all the content is down below

00:44:57 ◼   ► the menu bar area.

00:44:58 ◼   ► And that is a 16 by 10 rectangle screen.

00:45:02 ◼   ► You go into full screen mode,

00:45:03 ◼   ► your app goes into that space.

00:45:06 ◼   ► The menu bar, whether it's visible or not by default

00:45:09 ◼   ► is up in the menu bar space.

00:45:11 ◼   ► So what they've really done is not,

00:45:13 ◼   ► the way I would put it is Apple hasn't made a notch

00:45:17 ◼   ► that's intruding in your screen.

00:45:19 ◼   ► Apple has extended the screen with a special menu bar place

00:45:24 ◼   ► up above so that you've got more content

00:45:30 ◼   ► without the menu bar being in the way,

00:45:32 ◼   ► if that makes any sense.

00:45:33 ◼   ► So the menu bar, the bezel that they've eaten up

00:45:36 ◼   ► by extending the screen everywhere except around the notch

00:45:42 ◼   ► is the menu bar.

00:45:43 ◼   ► So you're basically creating special screen space

00:45:45 ◼   ► for the menu bar.

00:45:46 ◼   ► It works fine.

00:45:48 ◼   ► Most of the time you don't notice it

00:45:50 ◼   ► when it's got a black background up there.

00:45:52 ◼   ► You really don't notice it at all

00:45:55 ◼   ► unless you move your cursor

00:45:57 ◼   ► because the cursor doesn't like bump up against it.

00:45:59 ◼   ► The cursor just passes into it.

00:46:01 ◼   ► You take a screenshot by the way,

00:46:03 ◼   ► you can't see the notch.

00:46:04 ◼   ► - The screenshots are funny, man.

00:46:05 ◼   ► The screenshots are really funny.

00:46:06 ◼   ► Like when you're trying to show a screenshot

00:46:08 ◼   ► of the menu bar separating,

00:46:09 ◼   ► it's like, hey, what are you doing over there?

00:46:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I had to take a photo of the notch

00:46:14 ◼   ► in order to show the notch in my review.

00:46:16 ◼   ► But there is this moment, the ghostly moment

00:46:19 ◼   ► where you take the cursor, the pointer,

00:46:20 ◼   ► and you just sort of slide it in

00:46:22 ◼   ► and it's like it's entered a black hole

00:46:23 ◼   ► and it's disappeared.

00:46:24 ◼   ► But if you keep sliding, it comes back out the other side.

00:46:27 ◼   ► - I kind of like that.

00:46:28 ◼   ► It's somewhere to hide it, you know?

00:46:29 ◼   ► Just a designated cursor resting area.

00:46:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, somebody needs to make a utility

00:46:34 ◼   ► that just looks to see if the cursor is behind the notch

00:46:36 ◼   ► and puts like a glow around the notch

00:46:38 ◼   ► to let you know that the cursor is there.

00:46:40 ◼   ► I would love that.

00:46:41 ◼   ► That would be hilarious.

00:46:41 ◼   ► So other than that,

00:46:44 ◼   ► like when you're using a light background

00:46:47 ◼   ► and so you can see the notch, you get used to it.

00:46:50 ◼   ► It's really not that big a deal.

00:46:52 ◼   ► And again, I think it goes back to the fact

00:46:54 ◼   ► that although apps can choose to take control

00:46:57 ◼   ► of that whole area, by default,

00:46:59 ◼   ► all the apps live down below the notch.

00:47:02 ◼   ► Even in full screen, they live below the notch.

00:47:05 ◼   ► And what you've really got is this extra space

00:47:07 ◼   ► that is essentially reserved for the menu bar.

00:47:10 ◼   ► And by doing that, by spacing out the menu bar,

00:47:14 ◼   ► all the things they've done

00:47:15 ◼   ► the last couple of macOS revisions,

00:47:17 ◼   ► they made the menu bar taller, they spaced it out,

00:47:20 ◼   ► they made these little rounded highlights

00:47:22 ◼   ► that go behind each one of the menu bar items

00:47:24 ◼   ► when you click on them.

00:47:25 ◼   ► All of that was really to set this notch up.

00:47:29 ◼   ► And it works.

00:47:30 ◼   ► It works really well.

00:47:31 ◼   ► So, you know, try it for yourself, see how you feel.

00:47:34 ◼   ► But I will tell you, the notch is a non-issue

00:47:39 ◼   ► because of the menu bar.

00:47:42 ◼   ► Because the menu bar exists, the notch is a non-issue.

00:47:44 ◼   ► And it's not even like the iPhone

00:47:45 ◼   ► where they put menu bar-ish things, right?

00:47:48 ◼   ► Status bar up there, but then you get into an app

00:47:51 ◼   ► and the app kind of like, you know,

00:47:53 ◼   ► expands to fill the space with a background color

00:47:55 ◼   ► and all of that.

00:47:56 ◼   ► Well, on the Mac instead, it's just always the menu bar.

00:47:59 ◼   ► And you're a Mac user, you have a menu bar, right?

00:48:03 ◼   ► Like that's where it goes.

00:48:05 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:48:06 ◼   ► It really is just not a big deal.

00:48:08 ◼   ► So unless you've got an app,

00:48:09 ◼   ► I'm sure we're gonna hear stories of apps

00:48:10 ◼   ► that have ridiculously long sets of different menu items.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And that we're gonna get hilarious screenshots

00:48:18 ◼   ► of how they jump over the divide and all of that.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I would say another thing, if I'm a Mac developer,

00:48:24 ◼   ► to put on my agenda is do a little menu bar analysis

00:48:29 ◼   ► and say, maybe I don't need as many individual items.

00:48:34 ◼   ► But if you have lots, it works, it works fine.

00:48:37 ◼   ► It just jumps the divide and it's not that big a deal.

00:48:40 ◼   ► - 'Cause they could, you know,

00:48:42 ◼   ► like they could put a notch on the iMac.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Like this might not be the only machine that gets a notch.

00:48:47 ◼   ► - They could, they could.

00:48:49 ◼   ► And if it was menu bar sized, it would not be a big deal.

00:48:52 ◼   ► That's the bottom line here is,

00:48:56 ◼   ► as a long time Mac user,

00:48:57 ◼   ► I got used to the taller menu bar in no time.

00:49:01 ◼   ► It's not a big deal.

00:49:02 ◼   ► It is the menu bar.

00:49:03 ◼   ► - 'Cause this one is, it's a little bit taller still, right?

00:49:06 ◼   ► It's like a little bit taller than the taller one.

00:49:08 ◼   ► But because they put like the screen is 16 by 10,

00:49:12 ◼   ► is it 16 by 10 underneath?

00:49:14 ◼   ► - Underneath the menu bar, it's 16 by 10.

00:49:16 ◼   ► So it's basically, if you imagine it,

00:49:18 ◼   ► it is a full Mac screen.

00:49:20 ◼   ► And then there's a menu bar, little menu bar and status bar,

00:49:24 ◼   ► bonus bit above it on the left and the right.

00:49:27 ◼   ► You could think of it that way,

00:49:28 ◼   ► 'cause that's basically how it's built.

00:49:30 ◼   ► And so I think in the long run,

00:49:32 ◼   ► most apps will never, ever, ever, ever go up there.

00:49:36 ◼   ► It's menu bar space.

00:49:38 ◼   ► And that's the perfect space to hide a little cutout

00:49:41 ◼   ► 'cause it's just the Mac menu bar.

00:49:43 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:49:43 ◼   ► It's, so yeah, again, I've seen so much anger about this.

00:49:49 ◼   ► It's so weird.

00:49:51 ◼   ► And if you use it, maybe you'll still be angry, I don't know,

00:49:54 ◼   ► but I use it for a week and it's just,

00:49:56 ◼   ► I think it's very clever.

00:49:57 ◼   ► I think it doesn't get in the way at all.

00:50:00 ◼   ► And it's all because that menu bar exists.

00:50:02 ◼   ► If the menu bar didn't exist,

00:50:03 ◼   ► things would get really complicated really fast.

00:50:05 ◼   ► But the menu bar is already kind of a locked off area.

00:50:08 ◼   ► Now, if you're somebody who does the hide menu bar thing,

00:50:11 ◼   ► then it is gonna be a little bit weird

00:50:15 ◼   ► 'cause the hide menu bar option still works

00:50:18 ◼   ► when you're not in full screen to hide the menu bar.

00:50:20 ◼   ► And what you end up with is,

00:50:22 ◼   ► your desktop picture still extends up there

00:50:25 ◼   ► and you can move your mouse up there.

00:50:26 ◼   ► And if you try to drag like a narrow window,

00:50:28 ◼   ► like over up into the upper left-hand corner,

00:50:31 ◼   ► it goes, and it pushes it back down below the menu bar space.

00:50:35 ◼   ► - Could I hide a secret file of secrets

00:50:37 ◼   ► underneath the notch on the desktop?

00:50:40 ◼   ► You know?

00:50:41 ◼   ► - Probably not.

00:50:41 ◼   ► - Probably not, that's a shame.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Now that'd be fun.

00:50:43 ◼   ► Someone should make that as a utility too, you know.

00:50:46 ◼   ► - I put my cursor in there and it opens up a secret folder.

00:50:50 ◼   ► - Or like a little, some sort of UI that,

00:50:52 ◼   ► you know how you've got the UI in a menu bar extra

00:50:54 ◼   ► that drops down like Fantastical drops down?

00:50:57 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:50:57 ◼   ► - Have the option to have it drop down on a hotkey,

00:51:00 ◼   ► it drops down from behind the notch.

00:51:03 ◼   ► - Yes, I love it.

00:51:04 ◼   ► - There it is. - That's what I want.

00:51:06 ◼   ► - Anyway, I'm sure clever people will do stuff like that.

00:51:08 ◼   ► - I hope so. - It'll be fun.

00:51:09 ◼   ► - So the notch has within it the webcam, any thoughts?

00:51:14 ◼   ► - Sure, it is the, what's the wording

00:51:17 ◼   ► that lost you a point on the Ricky's?

00:51:19 ◼   ► It is the best-- - The best webcam ever

00:51:21 ◼   ► in a Mac laptop. - In a Mac laptop, right?

00:51:25 ◼   ► It's the same as the iMac one, it's the same.

00:51:29 ◼   ► It's a 1080 with the image processing and it is as good.

00:51:34 ◼   ► It's a little bit better than the one in my iMac Pro

00:51:38 ◼   ► 'cause my iMac Pro doesn't have the image processor

00:51:41 ◼   ► wired up, I don't think the T2 does that,

00:51:44 ◼   ► but it's essentially the same hardware.

00:51:47 ◼   ► It is fine.

00:51:50 ◼   ► This is one of those categories where I don't wanna give

00:51:54 ◼   ► Apple credit for making an improvement to something

00:51:57 ◼   ► that should be way better than it is.

00:51:59 ◼   ► 'Cause the bottom line is it's a Pro laptop.

00:52:01 ◼   ► The iMac, the iPad mini, the iPad mini has center stage

00:52:06 ◼   ► and the MacBook Pro does not.

00:52:10 ◼   ► It's dumb, I get it, maybe they can't make it thin enough,

00:52:13 ◼   ► maybe they couldn't fit it in this time, whatever.

00:52:15 ◼   ► But if I'm gonna judge it, I'm gonna say it's the best

00:52:18 ◼   ► webcam ever in a Mac notebook and it should still be way

00:52:21 ◼   ► better than it is.

00:52:22 ◼   ► - The iPad, not even just the iPad mini, the $300 iPad.

00:52:26 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, you're right.

00:52:28 ◼   ► I mean, so center stage, it's like, it's right there.

00:52:31 ◼   ► It needs to be on the Mac, it's disappointing that it's not.

00:52:34 ◼   ► This is fine, it is the best that they've done so far,

00:52:37 ◼   ► but they don't deserve applause for this upgrade.

00:52:41 ◼   ► It is literally the least they could do

00:52:44 ◼   ► and the least they have done.

00:52:45 ◼   ► And I hope that they get over it pretty soon

00:52:47 ◼   ► and start putting a, like again, 12 megapixel in the iPads,

00:52:52 ◼   ► 12 megapixel wide screen with auto panning center stage.

00:52:57 ◼   ► Like that should be on every Mac.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And so I'm not gonna give them credit for going to 1080

00:53:03 ◼   ► with their webcam, with processing.

00:53:05 ◼   ► It's nice, but they get no cookie for that.

00:53:08 ◼   ► I'm sorry, they just don't.

00:53:09 ◼   ► Same with the SD card, like the SD card, I'm glad it's back.

00:53:13 ◼   ► The HDMI slot port, I'm glad it's back.

00:53:16 ◼   ► Did they put those, make those cutting edge

00:53:19 ◼   ► or are they kind of second class?

00:53:21 ◼   ► They're kind of second class.

00:53:22 ◼   ► I'm glad they're there,

00:53:24 ◼   ► but they're not doing the HDMI 2.1,

00:53:27 ◼   ► they're not doing the faster SD card specs.

00:53:31 ◼   ► They're fine and probably all that anybody who uses

00:53:35 ◼   ► that ports really needs,

00:53:36 ◼   ► which is probably why they made that decision.

00:53:38 ◼   ► But at the same time, no cookie for that.

00:53:42 ◼   ► Like I'm glad they're back.

00:53:43 ◼   ► So they get an award for rectifying their error,

00:53:46 ◼   ► but they could have made them more cutting edge

00:53:48 ◼   ► than they did.

00:53:49 ◼   ► Same thing with the charging ports on the 16 inch.

00:53:51 ◼   ► Like it's, those ports are also lesser, right?

00:53:55 ◼   ► 'Cause they've got this new power delivery spec

00:53:57 ◼   ► and their brick on the 16 inch supports it.

00:54:00 ◼   ► And the MagSafe on the 16 inch supports it,

00:54:03 ◼   ► but the ports on the 16 inch don't.

00:54:05 ◼   ► So they don't do fast charging.

00:54:06 ◼   ► And it feels like all of Apple's ports

00:54:09 ◼   ► and the webcam are like leftover

00:54:13 ◼   ► from three or four years ago.

00:54:15 ◼   ► And right now they're given water

00:54:18 ◼   ► to somebody dying of thirst.

00:54:19 ◼   ► So we'll take it all.

00:54:20 ◼   ► But I look at those areas as all the areas

00:54:23 ◼   ► that probably need to be improved

00:54:24 ◼   ► the next time they do a version of this product,

00:54:26 ◼   ► because they're all still kind of not,

00:54:29 ◼   ► like for such a cutting edge project or product,

00:54:33 ◼   ► there are several things on this product

00:54:36 ◼   ► that are very much not cutting edge.

00:54:38 ◼   ► That's okay.

00:54:39 ◼   ► It's okay, but there's room for improvement there.

00:54:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, definitely.

00:54:44 ◼   ► You know, I'm still gonna, I haven't tried it out yet,

00:54:46 ◼   ► but I consider it's the same webcam.

00:54:48 ◼   ► I'm sure I'm gonna continue to have the same issues

00:54:50 ◼   ► with the camera being completely unusable to me

00:54:52 ◼   ► and my studio because of the way that it,

00:54:56 ◼   ► like the overhead lighting I have interferes,

00:54:58 ◼   ► which is a thing that other devices don't have.

00:55:00 ◼   ► Like iPhones, iPads, they handle it.

00:55:02 ◼   ► Fine.

00:55:03 ◼   ► I don't know if it's like a focusing thing,

00:55:05 ◼   ► so it's able to not be affected by the light so much,

00:55:09 ◼   ► but it continues to be a frustration of mine.

00:55:11 ◼   ► I have no doubt will continue to be a frustration of mine.

00:55:14 ◼   ► When I get it, I'll actually record some videos

00:55:16 ◼   ► so you can see what it looks like.

00:55:18 ◼   ► Very frustrating.

00:55:19 ◼   ► - Oh boy.

00:55:20 ◼   ► - You know, when I was looking at the keyboard images

00:55:23 ◼   ► in your review and you were talking about

00:55:25 ◼   ► the full height function keys,

00:55:28 ◼   ► I had this like alternate world kind of thought,

00:55:31 ◼   ► which I think I would have liked,

00:55:33 ◼   ► which is half height function keys and a touch bar.

00:55:36 ◼   ► But obviously this is only in a world where the touch bar

00:55:40 ◼   ► got more functionality than just glorified function keys.

00:55:45 ◼   ► But I think I would like that.

00:55:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean the touch bar, they tried it

00:55:49 ◼   ► and obviously they didn't think it worked.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And I think pretty long ago they decided it didn't work.

00:55:55 ◼   ► And it just took them a while to get to the point

00:55:57 ◼   ► of ripping it out because it's the only thing

00:56:00 ◼   ► as detailed in many episodes of upgrade over the years,

00:56:03 ◼   ► they never really updated the software for the touch bar,

00:56:06 ◼   ► which suggests to me that very quickly

00:56:09 ◼   ► after the touch bar came out,

00:56:11 ◼   ► Apple had basically decided that it was not gonna make it

00:56:14 ◼   ► and that they were just gonna keep it alive

00:56:16 ◼   ► with minimal effort until they could rip it out.

00:56:18 ◼   ► And then they finally have ripped it out now.

00:56:20 ◼   ► I don't know, I had a section that I took out

00:56:22 ◼   ► because I feel like it's another article.

00:56:23 ◼   ► And I know Gruber mentioned this on the talk show

00:56:25 ◼   ► a couple of weeks ago.

00:56:26 ◼   ► The idea that,

00:56:27 ◼   ► Apple could still do some innovation,

00:56:32 ◼   ► try some innovation in keyboards.

00:56:33 ◼   ► I just feel like they are so bitten.

00:56:35 ◼   ► Like every attempt they've done to innovate in keyboards

00:56:38 ◼   ► has been met with rejection and people saying,

00:56:41 ◼   ► why are you doing this?

00:56:43 ◼   ► You're a monster.

00:56:43 ◼   ► And so they've gotten praise

00:56:45 ◼   ► for not innovating in keyboards.

00:56:48 ◼   ► Like is key and could keyboards be innovated on?

00:56:51 ◼   ► I think they could.

00:56:52 ◼   ► And I think maybe Apple's innovations

00:56:56 ◼   ► were just the wrong ones for the wrong reasons.

00:56:59 ◼   ► The best one that I've come up with is,

00:57:02 ◼   ► as somebody who uses the Stream Deck,

00:57:04 ◼   ► is I would be curious about replacing the function keys

00:57:09 ◼   ► with programmable keys that were still keys.

00:57:14 ◼   ► But that had an Apple,

00:57:15 ◼   ► I know at one point they filed for a patent for this.

00:57:17 ◼   ► And I know that some other keyboards do this.

00:57:19 ◼   ► It's the idea that you've got,

00:57:22 ◼   ► the keys actually change based on context

00:57:24 ◼   ► and you can program them.

00:57:26 ◼   ► But they're still keys.

00:57:28 ◼   ► 'Cause I think one of the important points

00:57:29 ◼   ► is being able to get to them by feel.

00:57:31 ◼   ► That would be an interesting thing for Apple to pursue,

00:57:34 ◼   ► I guess, but honestly,

00:57:36 ◼   ► it has been such a nightmare the last five years

00:57:38 ◼   ► that I don't blame Apple for basically saying,

00:57:41 ◼   ► we're gonna stick to the classics.

00:57:43 ◼   ► This is what everybody really wants.

00:57:46 ◼   ► We're gonna innovate in other areas.

00:57:48 ◼   ► And truth be told,

00:57:50 ◼   ► I would much rather them think about

00:57:52 ◼   ► how you could put touch on a Mac display

00:57:55 ◼   ► than I would have them monkey around

00:57:56 ◼   ► with the keyboard some more.

00:57:58 ◼   ► - So do you have any final thoughts?

00:58:00 ◼   ► Is this a computer that Jason Snell wants?

00:58:03 ◼   ► - Well, no, because of my use case,

00:58:07 ◼   ► I'm not a laptop user so much anymore

00:58:10 ◼   ► and the MacBook Air is fine for travel.

00:58:12 ◼   ► If this was gonna be,

00:58:14 ◼   ► if I was not gonna use my desktop

00:58:16 ◼   ► or if I decided I was gonna buy a beautiful display

00:58:18 ◼   ► that isn't available,

00:58:21 ◼   ► and then use a docked laptop, I would get this,

00:58:24 ◼   ► but I'm kind of holding out.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Personally, what I want is a big screen desktop iMac,

00:58:31 ◼   ► essentially for my desk.

00:58:34 ◼   ► And then I've got my little M1 MacBook Air

00:58:36 ◼   ► for when I need to travel and that's all I need.

00:58:40 ◼   ► So it's not for me,

00:58:41 ◼   ► but the thing is laptops are for most people, right?

00:58:45 ◼   ► Most people are laptops.

00:58:47 ◼   ► And although most,

00:58:49 ◼   ► the majority of those laptops that Apple sells

00:58:51 ◼   ► are MacBook Airs, even in the pro space,

00:58:54 ◼   ► I believe it is true.

00:58:55 ◼   ► It's probably not as great,

00:58:57 ◼   ► but I'm sure that more than half of the pro,

00:59:00 ◼   ► people are buying laptops probably even more than that,

00:59:03 ◼   ► two thirds, three quarters.

00:59:05 ◼   ► So it doesn't matter that it's not for me.

00:59:07 ◼   ► - Laptops are computers now.

00:59:10 ◼   ► That's what a computer is.

00:59:11 ◼   ► It's a laptop.

00:59:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, and honestly, what is a desktop?

00:59:15 ◼   ► It is essentially just,

00:59:17 ◼   ► you would prefer to be in a,

00:59:20 ◼   ► sitting at a desk with a big screen context,

00:59:23 ◼   ► which is why, yeah, you could easily buy one of these.

00:59:25 ◼   ► And I think that's why we hear the clamor

00:59:28 ◼   ► for a big external display from Apple

00:59:30 ◼   ► that doesn't cost $5,000.

00:59:32 ◼   ► Is that what so many people really want

00:59:33 ◼   ► is a MacBook Pro like this one,

00:59:35 ◼   ► and they want to be able to dock it at their desk

00:59:37 ◼   ► to a big, beautiful display.

00:59:39 ◼   ► And the displays that are out there right now are not great

00:59:42 ◼   ► or cost $5,000 and that's not-

00:59:44 ◼   ► - Or just frankly, at any price,

00:59:45 ◼   ► don't have the features that the laptop display has.

00:59:49 ◼   ► - Sure, well, that's also true.

00:59:50 ◼   ► So I- - Like I could give Apple

00:59:52 ◼   ► six grand and I'm not gonna get promotion.

00:59:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true.

00:59:56 ◼   ► You're not.

00:59:57 ◼   ► You'll get XDR, but you're not gonna get promotion.

01:00:01 ◼   ► So yeah, it's a funny time.

01:00:05 ◼   ► And for me personally,

01:00:07 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to seeing these chips in an iMac,

01:00:11 ◼   ► something with a very, very, very big screen.

01:00:14 ◼   ► If I was in, you know,

01:00:17 ◼   ► if they made a 27-inch mini LED display,

01:00:22 ◼   ► I would think about getting one of these

01:00:28 ◼   ► and not having to have my MacBook Air,

01:00:31 ◼   ► but I already have my MacBook Air and it's gonna be fine.

01:00:34 ◼   ► And what I really want is the,

01:00:36 ◼   ► ideally even better performance

01:00:38 ◼   ► that it would be in a desktop.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And my desktop, I've had a desktop for a while now.

01:00:42 ◼   ► I started when I started out on my own with a laptop

01:00:44 ◼   ► that was docked and then I got that first 5K iMac.

01:00:47 ◼   ► And I'm very happy with that kind of iMac lifestyle.

01:00:51 ◼   ► But the truth is that these are, yes,

01:00:55 ◼   ► these are the mainstream, this is what a computer is.

01:00:58 ◼   ► And this is a Mac Pro that will go with you

01:01:02 ◼   ► anywhere you wanna go and do your work.

01:01:05 ◼   ► And that's pretty great.

01:01:06 ◼   ► And also I would say, a lot of times,

01:01:09 ◼   ► I wrote a piece about this that, you know,

01:01:10 ◼   ► where I was making fun of Steven Hackett,

01:01:12 ◼   ► basically about like, you don't need a Mac Pro, right?

01:01:15 ◼   ► Don't buy a Mac Pro just 'cause it's cool.

01:01:17 ◼   ► Unless you want to, unless it makes you feel good,

01:01:18 ◼   ► which it makes Steven feel good.

01:01:20 ◼   ► So that's fine.

01:01:21 ◼   ► But I would say the same here.

01:01:22 ◼   ► - I don't think it makes me feel so good anymore.

01:01:24 ◼   ► - Well, no, the beauty of the 1999, 1999, I think,

01:01:29 ◼   ► base model MacBook Pro is these, you know,

01:01:35 ◼   ► you may not need the kind of power

01:01:37 ◼   ► that's at the high end of these things.

01:01:39 ◼   ► And so by doing the chip binning,

01:01:40 ◼   ► so they've got the reduced core count

01:01:42 ◼   ► and they've got the reduced GPU count.

01:01:44 ◼   ► And I know that means that they're raising the price

01:01:47 ◼   ► and yet having their lesser processors, you know,

01:01:51 ◼   ► just not in terms of the processor itself

01:01:53 ◼   ► so much as the cores and GPUs are turned off,

01:01:55 ◼   ► like in that base model.

01:01:57 ◼   ► So you have to spend even more to get up to like full chip.

01:02:00 ◼   ► But I think the truth is some people just like Pro laptops

01:02:04 ◼   ► and they want more than the MacBook Air.

01:02:06 ◼   ► And beyond that, they don't really need a Mac Pro, right?

01:02:10 ◼   ► And so that's the advantage of Apple making those

01:02:13 ◼   ► binned chips available down at lower prices

01:02:17 ◼   ► is I think a lot of people just get that 1999 model

01:02:21 ◼   ► and be happy, right?

01:02:22 ◼   ► And no, it's not gonna be as fast as the Mac's chip

01:02:27 ◼   ► with 32 GPUs and 64 gigs of RAM, like no,

01:02:32 ◼   ► but you know, a lot of people don't need that.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And so I think that that is something we should pay

01:02:40 ◼   ► attention to is that people are gonna buy lower end

01:02:43 ◼   ► configurations of these things

01:02:44 ◼   ► and they're still gonna be great.

01:02:46 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by Things,

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01:04:48 ◼   ► Let's finally, Jason, finally talk about

01:04:51 ◼   ► the Apple Watch Series 7.

01:04:54 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:04:54 ◼   ► - We can finally talk about it.

01:04:56 ◼   ► We've been meaning to get to it for a while.

01:04:58 ◼   ► Can you remind me and the Upgradians

01:05:01 ◼   ► what Apple Watch you were upgrading from

01:05:03 ◼   ► and what model you have?

01:05:05 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:05:07 ◼   ► And keep in mind that I haven't thought

01:05:08 ◼   ► about the Apple Watch in a week

01:05:09 ◼   ► 'cause I've been thinking about a laptop.

01:05:11 ◼   ► So it's on my to-do list.

01:05:13 ◼   ► I had a Series 5.

01:05:16 ◼   ► I bought a Series 7 titanium.

01:05:19 ◼   ► It's not here yet.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I have an Apple review unit of a Series 7 aluminum

01:05:25 ◼   ► and the big one again.

01:05:29 ◼   ► - Right.

01:05:30 ◼   ► Okay.

01:05:31 ◼   ► - So I mean, I have the Series 7 stainless steel.

01:05:35 ◼   ► It's 45 millimeters is the big one, right?

01:05:38 ◼   ► And I was upgrading from the 44 millimeter ceramic

01:05:44 ◼   ► Series 5 watch.

01:05:47 ◼   ► And I'd never used a Series 6.

01:05:50 ◼   ► So I have kind of not really,

01:05:52 ◼   ► I didn't really have much of a comparison

01:05:54 ◼   ► 'cause some of the stuff that's there,

01:05:56 ◼   ► which I quite like is, you know,

01:05:57 ◼   ► like the brighter always on display

01:05:59 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff.

01:06:00 ◼   ► Like I've benefited from that.

01:06:02 ◼   ► I took one blood oxygen reading

01:06:04 ◼   ► and that's probably the last time I'll ever do that,

01:06:07 ◼   ► but I've done it now.

01:06:08 ◼   ► - Well, congratulations.

01:06:10 ◼   ► - What do you think of the like change size,

01:06:13 ◼   ► the screen size and stuff like that?

01:06:15 ◼   ► Do you notice it?

01:06:16 ◼   ► Do you like it?

01:06:17 ◼   ► - Okay. - Yeah, I do.

01:06:18 ◼   ► I do and I do.

01:06:19 ◼   ► That's the thing about it

01:06:20 ◼   ► that really was what motivated me to update.

01:06:25 ◼   ► And I feel very impressed by it in general.

01:06:28 ◼   ► Like in a screen this small,

01:06:31 ◼   ► pushing that screen larger makes a huge difference.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And I like tapping my code in to unlock it.

01:06:39 ◼   ► It's like, oh, look, these buttons are so much more tappable

01:06:42 ◼   ► and there's so much more space for individual apps.

01:06:46 ◼   ► I think it's very impressive.

01:06:50 ◼   ► That said, there are still,

01:06:51 ◼   ► I can't believe I'm saying this,

01:06:53 ◼   ► but like, so they updated some of the watch faces

01:06:56 ◼   ► for the larger display.

01:06:57 ◼   ► So like they must've decided finally that utility,

01:07:00 ◼   ► bless utility original watch face

01:07:04 ◼   ► and it's still my favorite.

01:07:06 ◼   ► Like, oh yeah, we kind of got away

01:07:08 ◼   ► with not doing anything on it before,

01:07:10 ◼   ► but we really need to do it now.

01:07:11 ◼   ► So what did they do?

01:07:13 ◼   ► They pushed it out to the edges

01:07:14 ◼   ► and didn't change anything else about it.

01:07:15 ◼   ► So even though there's plenty of room

01:07:17 ◼   ► for like corner complications in utility,

01:07:20 ◼   ► they are, because the watch design today

01:07:23 ◼   ► or the face design dates from before

01:07:25 ◼   ► there were those corner complications that are bigger,

01:07:29 ◼   ► they just never ever updated them.

01:07:34 ◼   ► So you still have this limited number of complications.

01:07:36 ◼   ► That's what frustrates me the most about the Apple Watch

01:07:39 ◼   ► is it feels very much like they put a lot of effort

01:07:44 ◼   ► into the new stuff and the old stuff just sits there

01:07:47 ◼   ► and never gets an update.

01:07:49 ◼   ► And they feel like it's solved the problem, but it hasn't.

01:07:53 ◼   ► And so I was really hoping that I would have

01:07:55 ◼   ► some new watch face abilities with this watch.

01:07:59 ◼   ► And the truth is it's the exact same state of affairs

01:08:01 ◼   ► as on the five where my primary watch face

01:08:05 ◼   ► is probably going to be California,

01:08:07 ◼   ► which I don't like as much as utility,

01:08:10 ◼   ► but I can get it to be close to what utility looks like

01:08:14 ◼   ► and have four corner complications,

01:08:17 ◼   ► which the other one doesn't have mostly again,

01:08:21 ◼   ► because it predates that.

01:08:23 ◼   ► And even with this update,

01:08:25 ◼   ► they didn't make any changes there.

01:08:26 ◼   ► It's just so frustrating to me.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And maybe it has to do with the primitive nature of watchOS

01:08:31 ◼   ► where if they update a watch face to be different

01:08:35 ◼   ► on some models, it gets confused

01:08:37 ◼   ► because the other models don't have that.

01:08:39 ◼   ► And so they're like, how does the watch app work

01:08:41 ◼   ► and how do apps affect those complications?

01:08:46 ◼   ► Like I get that it's hard, but it is kind of ridiculous that-

01:08:50 ◼   ► - They could find a way.

01:08:51 ◼   ► - Right?

01:08:52 ◼   ► - They could find a way if they wanted to.

01:08:53 ◼   ► - I get that it might be complicated,

01:08:55 ◼   ► but why are you making watch faces

01:08:57 ◼   ► for the original Apple Watch

01:08:59 ◼   ► and then just not adding anything

01:09:02 ◼   ► that you've added to the OS?

01:09:03 ◼   ► Only the new, so basically only the new watch faces

01:09:07 ◼   ► get new features that were introduced at that point, right?

01:09:12 ◼   ► So if you get a new watch face that was introduced

01:09:14 ◼   ► when the new feature was there,

01:09:16 ◼   ► they will take advantage of it.

01:09:17 ◼   ► But like the old watch faces are sort of like,

01:09:19 ◼   ► nah, we're not gonna do that.

01:09:21 ◼   ► We're back here in the olden times.

01:09:23 ◼   ► And I am frustrated by that, but I do love the screen.

01:09:27 ◼   ► And as somebody who uses my watch a lot with cellular

01:09:32 ◼   ► and it's faster, I can tell because faster than the five,

01:09:37 ◼   ► it feels faster and the screen is nice.

01:09:40 ◼   ► And that's, this is what I was looking for.

01:09:43 ◼   ► I wish that they would really walk through the entire OS

01:09:46 ◼   ► and update everything.

01:09:47 ◼   ► And if that means breaking compatibility with old models,

01:09:51 ◼   ► like I know they still sell the series three,

01:09:54 ◼   ► but this is the problem, right?

01:09:55 ◼   ► Just like, it still feels like I'm inheriting

01:09:59 ◼   ► really dusty old stuff from the original Apple Watch,

01:10:02 ◼   ► which was a long time ago now.

01:10:04 ◼   ► And that stuff all needs a brush up.

01:10:07 ◼   ► - I, at first, I didn't notice the screen.

01:10:09 ◼   ► I couldn't tell it was bigger.

01:10:11 ◼   ► And then as soon as I saw the passcode screen,

01:10:14 ◼   ► I was like, oh, there it is.

01:10:15 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah.

01:10:16 ◼   ► - It's like almost the metrics on the buttons,

01:10:18 ◼   ► just knowing that they're larger and it's like, oh yes.

01:10:21 ◼   ► - I love the notification button sizes.

01:10:23 ◼   ► They're so much easier to tap now.

01:10:25 ◼   ► I like that a lot.

01:10:27 ◼   ► And I would say as well, whilst it looks ridiculous,

01:10:29 ◼   ► the keyboard is the best way to send messages now.

01:10:33 ◼   ► That little swipe keyboard, it works great.

01:10:35 ◼   ► So much better than dictating.

01:10:37 ◼   ► And it's way better than individually drawing every letter,

01:10:41 ◼   ► which is absurd.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Like that's always been absurd.

01:10:45 ◼   ► I like the little keyboard.

01:10:47 ◼   ► I think it does a good job.

01:10:49 ◼   ► The design of the watch itself, I'm pretty into.

01:10:54 ◼   ► I got, remember I got the gold one

01:10:55 ◼   ► and I really love the gold one.

01:10:58 ◼   ► I think it looks really nice.

01:11:00 ◼   ► I'm very happy with the overall feel of it,

01:11:02 ◼   ► which I'm really pleased about

01:11:05 ◼   ► 'cause I was very begrudging

01:11:06 ◼   ► in getting rid of the addition, the white ceramic.

01:11:09 ◼   ► I enjoyed that.

01:11:11 ◼   ► I actually think I prefer the design now

01:11:14 ◼   ► of the watch that I have now.

01:11:16 ◼   ► I actually think it looks more like a watch,

01:11:18 ◼   ► which is something I've always wanted,

01:11:20 ◼   ► especially with the bands that I'm using.

01:11:22 ◼   ► So on a daily basis, I'm wearing the Leather Link band.

01:11:26 ◼   ► I got the Midnight one and I really like that pairing.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And I got the, as I mentioned before,

01:11:31 ◼   ► I did get the gold Milanese,

01:11:32 ◼   ► which I decided to wear on occasions.

01:11:35 ◼   ► You know, going out to dinner or something, I'll put it on.

01:11:37 ◼   ► And it helps me feel like I'm dressing the watch up

01:11:40 ◼   ► a little bit, which is I think something

01:11:41 ◼   ► that's important to me 'cause it was something

01:11:43 ◼   ► that I would find frustrating with the Apple Watch before

01:11:46 ◼   ► is that it always felt like I was wearing a computer.

01:11:48 ◼   ► And it still does, but now at least I think it has something

01:11:52 ◼   ► that looks a little bit more special about it.

01:11:54 ◼   ► I don't know when Apple changed this,

01:11:57 ◼   ► but I'm happy that the digital crown

01:11:59 ◼   ► is not black in the middle anymore.

01:12:01 ◼   ► I don't know if that was maybe a thing

01:12:03 ◼   ► that was held over longer on the edition,

01:12:06 ◼   ► but you know, I had the white watch and it had a black crown.

01:12:09 ◼   ► - Still black on the aluminum watch, Myke.

01:12:12 ◼   ► - Oh, really?

01:12:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's still with a red circle around it

01:12:14 ◼   ► on the aluminum watch.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I've got the blue and it's still got a,

01:12:18 ◼   ► the crown is blue, but the flat part is the red outline

01:12:23 ◼   ► and then a black circle.

01:12:25 ◼   ► - Still had the red outline, which at this point,

01:12:27 ◼   ► I think on the stainless steel is pointless

01:12:29 ◼   ► 'cause I think you can only get the cellular maybe.

01:12:33 ◼   ► So I don't know why that's needed.

01:12:34 ◼   ► - Pointless.

01:12:35 ◼   ► - But I'm very happy that they have,

01:12:39 ◼   ► at least on some of the models now,

01:12:41 ◼   ► they got rid of the black on the inside,

01:12:43 ◼   ► but yeah, I don't need this red.

01:12:45 ◼   ► It doesn't need to be here.

01:12:46 ◼   ► I don't like it, wish I'd get rid of it,

01:12:48 ◼   ► but they're getting better a little bit at a time.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's fast.

01:12:54 ◼   ► Like I was expecting that.

01:12:56 ◼   ► I'm happy with it.

01:12:57 ◼   ► - Oh, I mean, I'll talk about the look.

01:12:58 ◼   ► The blue, all of the Apple watches that I've bought

01:13:01 ◼   ► have been black.

01:13:02 ◼   ► - Right.

01:13:04 ◼   ► - But I had them send me for the review

01:13:06 ◼   ► a blue with a blue band.

01:13:11 ◼   ► It's really pretty.

01:13:12 ◼   ► I'm very impressed with it.

01:13:13 ◼   ► It is not super bright,

01:13:16 ◼   ► but it's also not one of those Apple,

01:13:19 ◼   ► we call it blue, but you really can't tell blues.

01:13:23 ◼   ► It's a really nice blue.

01:13:26 ◼   ► The bands are basically match it,

01:13:30 ◼   ► which is also nice.

01:13:32 ◼   ► And yeah, then you're walking around with a blue watch

01:13:34 ◼   ► and you gotta like embrace it.

01:13:36 ◼   ► And like I said, I think my preference is to keep it,

01:13:41 ◼   ► keep it black, keep it dark, just keep it that way.

01:13:43 ◼   ► That's my preference for a watch.

01:13:46 ◼   ► But I really enjoyed wearing the blue

01:13:49 ◼   ► for the last couple of weeks.

01:13:51 ◼   ► It's fun.

01:13:53 ◼   ► And so I can endorse the blue watch color

01:13:56 ◼   ► for the aluminum watch.

01:13:57 ◼   ► It's a lot of fun.

01:13:59 ◼   ► I imagine the red is quite similar.

01:14:01 ◼   ► If you're a fan of red,

01:14:03 ◼   ► in this house, red is bad and blue is good.

01:14:06 ◼   ► So we will always be on the blue train.

01:14:09 ◼   ► But overall, it's kind of what I expected it to be,

01:14:12 ◼   ► Apple watch wise.

01:14:14 ◼   ► But I think I am actually more pleased with it

01:14:17 ◼   ► than I was expecting.

01:14:18 ◼   ► So that's a big win for me.

01:14:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I agree.

01:14:22 ◼   ► I think that big screen is the story, right?

01:14:25 ◼   ► Like, and that's the reason,

01:14:27 ◼   ► if you're thinking of upgrading from a previous model,

01:14:29 ◼   ► and I think series six, like you probably don't need to.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Series five, I felt like I had refrained

01:14:36 ◼   ► from buying an Apple watch last year.

01:14:38 ◼   ► And I thought maybe this year.

01:14:41 ◼   ► And with the bigger screen, I thought, that's what I want.

01:14:43 ◼   ► And having seen it now,

01:14:45 ◼   ► I think I was right in saying that that was enough.

01:14:49 ◼   ► Certainly if you're using a watch older than a series five,

01:14:52 ◼   ► I think that the benefit is clear.

01:14:55 ◼   ► One of the things I haven't done that I need to test

01:14:57 ◼   ► before I write my article is I'm really looking forward

01:14:59 ◼   ► to seeing about the text size.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Because you can adjust the text size

01:15:04 ◼   ► much more than you could.

01:15:05 ◼   ► And this, I felt was an accessibility problem

01:15:07 ◼   ► on the Apple watch is the unlike on like the iPhone

01:15:12 ◼   ► and the Mac, you could not go crank the system text

01:15:16 ◼   ► up beyond a certain point.

01:15:18 ◼   ► And that was a very small point.

01:15:20 ◼   ► And older people end up having a problem

01:15:25 ◼   ► with their near vision.

01:15:26 ◼   ► And an Apple watch is really nice,

01:15:27 ◼   ► but if you can't read your Apple watch

01:15:29 ◼   ► without putting on your reading glasses,

01:15:31 ◼   ► it's kind of not doing its job.

01:15:32 ◼   ► And I don't have that problem, but I know people who do,

01:15:37 ◼   ► and this is an issue.

01:15:38 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to checking that out,

01:15:40 ◼   ► but I haven't done it yet because everything else.

01:15:44 ◼   ► But I will get to that before I write my review

01:15:46 ◼   ► and I'm looking forward to trying that out.

01:15:48 ◼   ► - You know, I remain consistently frustrated

01:15:51 ◼   ► at their ability to create watch faces though.

01:15:53 ◼   ► I just, I think I'm always gonna be this way.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - So somebody, I think it was Steve Trout and Smith,

01:15:58 ◼   ► but somebody pointed out,

01:15:59 ◼   ► and I think this is kind of brilliant,

01:16:03 ◼   ► is what if Apple made a watch face that was hands

01:16:08 ◼   ► and made a complication type that was behind the hands?

01:16:18 ◼   ► Like, and I thought, I thought I kind of like this idea

01:16:26 ◼   ► of like, all right, Apple, it is bargaining,

01:16:28 ◼   ► but like, all right, Apple, you're not gonna let,

01:16:32 ◼   ► maybe they will, I mean, stranger things have happened.

01:16:35 ◼   ► You're not gonna let us do third party watch faces.

01:16:38 ◼   ► How about mega complications, right?

01:16:44 ◼   ► How about we do, you know, you draw the hands,

01:16:48 ◼   ► you do all of that,

01:16:49 ◼   ► but we get more control over some other stuff.

01:16:52 ◼   ► Like, could they put themselves in,

01:16:54 ◼   ► I mean, it doesn't solve every problem,

01:16:55 ◼   ► but it solves some problems.

01:16:57 ◼   ► If Apple sort of says, you know,

01:17:00 ◼   ► we have a few different hand styles,

01:17:02 ◼   ► and then beyond that,

01:17:03 ◼   ► we can't wait to see what you do with it

01:17:05 ◼   ► and give third parties the ability

01:17:07 ◼   ► to do more interesting stuff behind.

01:17:09 ◼   ► But I agree with you.

01:17:10 ◼   ► I think the problem with the faces

01:17:13 ◼   ► as it currently stands is,

01:17:14 ◼   ► it is very hard to look at the Apple Watch faces

01:17:19 ◼   ► and feel like there's any prioritization at Apple for it.

01:17:22 ◼   ► And I'm not saying that the faces that they're doing

01:17:26 ◼   ► as new faces aren't nice.

01:17:27 ◼   ► I think the portrait face is really nice.

01:17:30 ◼   ► And that the fact that they're using portrait phone

01:17:33 ◼   ► picture data to do cutouts

01:17:36 ◼   ► and like layer your watch data in with the pictures,

01:17:40 ◼   ► which if you haven't seen it, it's amazing.

01:17:41 ◼   ► Like you've got a person in the foreground

01:17:43 ◼   ► and the time is in the background

01:17:45 ◼   ► and it's slightly masked by the person in the foreground.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Like when it works, it's amazing.

01:17:50 ◼   ► It's like a fun thing,

01:17:52 ◼   ► but it really feels like the watch face team

01:17:55 ◼   ► needs three times as many people as are working on it now,

01:18:00 ◼   ► because they should be better.

01:18:02 ◼   ► There should be more complication options.

01:18:04 ◼   ► And I don't know, watch faces matter.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Like I know they're silly,

01:18:12 ◼   ► but they're also important and personalize your watch.

01:18:15 ◼   ► And it's an important part of being an Apple Watch user

01:18:19 ◼   ► and owner is the face.

01:18:21 ◼   ► And yet it seems like it's never really a priority for Apple

01:18:26 ◼   ► even now.

01:18:27 ◼   ► So I agree.

01:18:29 ◼   ► They're fine, but boy, they should be better than fine.

01:18:33 ◼   ► - This episode of Upgrade is also brought to you

01:18:36 ◼   ► by HPE Tech Talk, a podcast from the folks

01:18:39 ◼   ► at Hewlett Packard Enterprise.

01:18:41 ◼   ► I love finding new podcasts to listen to.

01:18:43 ◼   ► I know that you obviously do too, right?

01:18:45 ◼   ► We all love podcasts here.

01:18:47 ◼   ► You find something new, you can go back

01:18:48 ◼   ► and listen to a bunch of past episodes.

01:18:50 ◼   ► I always find that such a treat.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Tech Talk is a show that talks through HPE news,

01:18:54 ◼   ► tech insights, world-class innovations,

01:18:57 ◼   ► with tons of really interesting topics.

01:18:59 ◼   ► Like for example, what about applying tech

01:19:01 ◼   ► for the good of the people, planet,

01:19:03 ◼   ► and communities that surround us,

01:19:05 ◼   ► which seems like something that's only more important

01:19:06 ◼   ► these days, or how Walt Disney Studios,

01:19:09 ◼   ► experimenting of AI and machine learning

01:19:11 ◼   ► to help creators with the filmmaking process,

01:19:13 ◼   ► or even how the chief technology officer

01:19:15 ◼   ► of Tottenham Hotspur, which is a football club,

01:19:18 ◼   ► their state of the art stadium

01:19:19 ◼   ► and how it's utilizing technology and connectivity

01:19:22 ◼   ► to help keep players and fans safe

01:19:24 ◼   ► amid COVID-19 restrictions.

01:19:26 ◼   ► All of these types of topics are available to you

01:19:29 ◼   ► with HPE Tech Talk.

01:19:31 ◼   ► I listened to an episode recently focused

01:19:33 ◼   ► on how companies can integrate the power

01:19:35 ◼   ► of cloud technologies into every part

01:19:37 ◼   ► of their business setup.

01:19:38 ◼   ► This is something called moving to a hybrid model,

01:19:42 ◼   ► and it really talks about how companies

01:19:44 ◼   ► can work through that and some of the things

01:19:46 ◼   ► they might want to think about.

01:19:47 ◼   ► So if this is something of interest to you,

01:19:48 ◼   ► you might want to check it out.

01:19:50 ◼   ► Previous episodes have also had tons of great guests.

01:19:53 ◼   ► This is something that they really believe in on the show,

01:19:55 ◼   ► taking you straight to the source

01:19:57 ◼   ► and interviewing some really impressive tech leaders,

01:20:01 ◼   ► like Sanjeev Katwa, the CTO of Tottenham Hotspur FC,

01:20:04 ◼   ► talking about the stuff I was mentioning a minute ago

01:20:06 ◼   ► about how they're using technology and connectivity

01:20:09 ◼   ► at their new stadium.

01:20:10 ◼   ► Emily Christensen, a master candidate

01:20:12 ◼   ► in applied data science at USC.

01:20:14 ◼   ► Monica Livingston from Intel, and many, many more.

01:20:18 ◼   ► Listen to brand new episodes of HPE's Tech Talk

01:20:21 ◼   ► everywhere you get your podcasts,

01:20:22 ◼   ► like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and everywhere else.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Search for Tech Talk right now,

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01:20:30 ◼   ► Our thanks to HPE Tech Talk for their support

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01:20:35 ◼   ► Let's finish out today's episode

01:20:37 ◼   ► with some #AskUpgrade questions.

01:20:41 ◼   ► The first comes from Millennial Falcon,

01:20:42 ◼   ► which is a great username.

01:20:44 ◼   ► "What technology product do you think

01:20:47 ◼   ► you may have more nostalgia for than most people would?"

01:20:50 ◼   ► - Wow, this is a great question.

01:20:53 ◼   ► I've got a bunch, right?

01:20:54 ◼   ► A bunch of unloved tech products that I love.

01:20:58 ◼   ► So the first is a thing called Video Guide,

01:21:01 ◼   ► which I'm sure I've mentioned before.

01:21:03 ◼   ► It was basically a...

01:21:05 ◼   ► You know how every DVR and cable box and everything now

01:21:10 ◼   ► has like a grid that you call up

01:21:11 ◼   ► that shows where all the shows are,

01:21:13 ◼   ► and you can set your shows to record

01:21:15 ◼   ► or record the same show every time and all of that.

01:21:18 ◼   ► Video Guide was that before any DVR technology existed.

01:21:22 ◼   ► So it was like a little box that you attach to your TV,

01:21:25 ◼   ► and it did an IR blaster to your VCR.

01:21:28 ◼   ► And it had a guide back in the day

01:21:31 ◼   ► where you didn't have a cable box with a guide

01:21:33 ◼   ► if you even had a cable box.

01:21:35 ◼   ► And you could set to record shows,

01:21:37 ◼   ► and at the time the show was recording,

01:21:40 ◼   ► it would turn on your VCR with the IR blaster,

01:21:42 ◼   ► switch to that channel and press record.

01:21:45 ◼   ► And then when the show was over,

01:21:47 ◼   ► it would use the IR blaster to press stop.

01:21:50 ◼   ► It was amazing.

01:21:51 ◼   ► - Man, I have found an incredible review website thing

01:21:55 ◼   ► of this from the 90s.

01:21:57 ◼   ► I'm gonna put it on this. - I've linked to it before.

01:21:58 ◼   ► It's the one like that in a Tidbits article

01:22:01 ◼   ► are like the only traces of Video Guide out there

01:22:03 ◼   ► other than maybe my Six Colors article where I mentioned it.

01:22:05 ◼   ► So it was a TiVo, except it wasn't.

01:22:09 ◼   ► It was just the guide part, but it was mind blowing.

01:22:12 ◼   ► And we bought a second VCR so that we could have the one VCR

01:22:17 ◼   ► that was just recording stuff.

01:22:19 ◼   ► And then the other one where we played it back.

01:22:21 ◼   ► Again, and then like five years later, the TiVo came out.

01:22:26 ◼   ► But it was, I mean, so huge nostalgia for the Video Guide.

01:22:30 ◼   ► iPod Hi-Fi? (laughs)

01:22:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, you kept that thing around for a long time.

01:22:36 ◼   ► - I mean, it's right here.

01:22:38 ◼   ► I'm not using it right now, but it is right here

01:22:40 ◼   ► and not so bad.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Everybody's got nostalgia for the iPod, which turned 20.

01:22:49 ◼   ► I have nostalgia for it too, but it's not quite the same.

01:22:52 ◼   ► But for weird tech products that I have nostalgia for,

01:22:56 ◼   ► that Video Guide was incredible.

01:22:59 ◼   ► And then of course, went out of business one morning.

01:23:03 ◼   ► That's my favorite thing.

01:23:04 ◼   ► Whenever people talk about like subscriptions to software

01:23:07 ◼   ► or not owning something or relying on something

01:23:10 ◼   ► that's being done by a fly-by-night company,

01:23:13 ◼   ► I think a Video Guide, because one day we came out

01:23:16 ◼   ► and turned on the TV and pressed the button

01:23:19 ◼   ► on the Video Guide and a screen came up that said,

01:23:21 ◼   ► "Video Guide has been discontinued.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Please send your Video Guide back

01:23:25 ◼   ► and we'll give you some money back."

01:23:27 ◼   ► And that was it.

01:23:28 ◼   ► It was over.

01:23:29 ◼   ► - Did you get money back?

01:23:30 ◼   ► - I don't think we did.

01:23:33 ◼   ► I think we did send it back.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Maybe they sent us a check for like $4 or something.

01:23:36 ◼   ► It was literally nothing.

01:23:38 ◼   ► And I thought that was a really good lesson too.

01:23:40 ◼   ► And then obviously like TiVo came along

01:23:42 ◼   ► and it solved everything.

01:23:44 ◼   ► - Mine, I think, is the very first video iPod.

01:23:48 ◼   ► So was it like iPod fifth gen with video

01:23:53 ◼   ► or whatever it was called?

01:23:54 ◼   ► You know, like the one where they demoed it

01:23:56 ◼   ► and they showed off the office, right?

01:23:59 ◼   ► That was their whole thing.

01:24:00 ◼   ► Hey, look, you can watch the office on your iPod.

01:24:02 ◼   ► This was just, I mean, I've had iPods before and stuff,

01:24:05 ◼   ► but this one was just so good for me.

01:24:07 ◼   ► Like I remember it was a Christmas gift

01:24:10 ◼   ► and I remember convincing my mom.