Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:11 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode #384.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Upgrade this week is brought to you by FitBod, Amazon Music,

00:00:19 ◼   ► and Smile. I'm Jason Snell. I'm always here, but I'm not usually doing

00:00:24 ◼   ► this part. But Myke Hurley, remember him? He is on assignment. He was in

00:00:29 ◼   ► Los Angeles last week, now he is in Hawaii, basking in the sun, drinking up the tropical

00:00:35 ◼   ► rain, whatever he's doing there. So instead we have brought in a special guest host, making

00:00:42 ◼   ► his only second appearance ever on Upgrade. It's very special guest, novelist, Macworld

00:00:50 ◼   ► columnist, clockwise and rebound co-host, and my co-conspirator at Six Colors, it's

00:00:55 ◼   ► It's Dan Morin.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Hi, Dan!

00:00:57 ◼   ► Hello, hello, hello, Jason.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Oh, no, I'm so sorry.

00:00:59 ◼   ► I'm so sorry.

00:01:00 ◼   ► You can't.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Don't.

00:01:02 ◼   ► Just don't.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Uh, welcome to Upgrade.

00:01:07 ◼   ► It's been since 2016 since you were here.

00:01:10 ◼   ► I know, five years.

00:01:11 ◼   ► I'll be due back after this in another five, and that'll be nice.

00:01:14 ◼   ► No, it's great to be back.

00:01:15 ◼   ► I actually listen to Upgrade pretty much every week.

00:01:18 ◼   ► It's one of the few shows I do listen to every week, so it's always a pleasure to get to

00:01:22 ◼   ► come on and actually talk to you so you can hear me instead of just yelling at you and

00:01:26 ◼   ► Myke. And Dan and I, in addition to writing at Six Colors, we do a weekly podcast for

00:01:32 ◼   ► Six Colors members every Friday. So it's not like Dan and I don't talk every week about

00:01:36 ◼   ► tech stuff, but we're doing it here on Upgrade This Week. And we, as always, we're going

00:01:42 ◼   ► to start with a hashtag Snell Talk question. I got to pick it, no less. And it's this,

00:01:49 ◼   ► from Wes. What is the oldest question in Snell Talk? How old is it and why does Myke keep

00:01:56 ◼   ► skipping the question? And that brings us to this Snell Talk question from listener

00:02:03 ◼   ► Graham sent April 6th, 2017. After you appeared on the podcast, Dan, favorite law of physics?

00:02:13 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:16 ◼   ► Okay, thank you, Graham from 2017.

00:02:20 ◼   ► And I don't know, we're gonna have to leave it for Myke

00:02:23 ◼   ► to answer why he keeps skipping this question

00:02:25 ◼   ► and many other questions, 'cause it's a spreadsheet.

00:02:27 ◼   ► He could delete stuff at the top and say,

00:02:29 ◼   ► I'm probably not gonna answer a question.

00:02:31 ◼   ► Like the, Wes also asked about Ask Upgrade.

00:02:35 ◼   ► And the oldest Ask Upgrade question is from January, 2020.

00:02:40 ◼   ► And that's ridiculous, right?

00:02:41 ◼   ► I think that the answer there is Myke has just not gone through and cropped out the

00:02:46 ◼   ► ones, you know, questions about like, what do you think is going to be in the iPhone

00:02:49 ◼   ► 12 or whatever? It's like, um, maybe not. But January 2020 is great because it's like,

00:02:54 ◼   ► oh man, do you think we'll ever see another global pandemic? I can't wait for WWDC this

00:02:59 ◼   ► year. I'm going to San Jose. Are you? Yeah, exactly right. So to answer Graham's question

00:03:05 ◼   ► from 2017, there's only one answer that I can give to this question and that is my favorite

00:03:10 ◼   ► law of physics, if we can call it that, is Snell's law,

00:03:14 ◼   ► a formula used to describe the relationship

00:03:16 ◼   ► between the angles of incidence and refraction.

00:03:19 ◼   ► - Oh, okay.

00:03:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's right, Snell's law.

00:03:23 ◼   ► And you can't prove it wasn't me who did it.

00:03:27 ◼   ► So that's my answer, Snell's law.

00:03:29 ◼   ► - That's a good answer.

00:03:30 ◼   ► - The gift of relay is something you can give

00:03:33 ◼   ► this holiday season.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I just wanted to mention this to people out there

00:03:36 ◼   ► who are listening and are thinking about becoming

00:03:38 ◼   ► relay FM member and haven't yet or maybe you've got a membership hesitant friend

00:03:43 ◼   ► you want to gift them a membership you want to unlock the doors of upgrade plus

00:03:47 ◼   ► or if you're a fan of Dan's show clockwise you could upgrade your

00:03:52 ◼   ► membership and unlock the doors of clockwise unwound and become a member of

00:03:56 ◼   ► clockwise either way or some other show on relay I guess that's not hosted by us

00:04:01 ◼   ► but you could do that too if you wanted to now is a great time to do it until

00:04:05 ◼   ► December 17th, all of our annual plans are 22% off

00:04:09 ◼   ► for new subscribers.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Just go to giverelay.com to learn more

00:04:14 ◼   ► and set up your gift.

00:04:15 ◼   ► This includes, of course, Upgrade Plus.

00:04:17 ◼   ► You will get a year of ad-free episodes

00:04:19 ◼   ► with bonus content every single week for just $39.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Try it yourself or give it to a friend

00:04:26 ◼   ► who has not yet been exposed to the amazing things

00:04:29 ◼   ► that we talk about, like Dan and I talking about tea

00:04:33 ◼   ► in this episode.

00:04:33 ◼   ► So just giverelay.com.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Yeah, check it out.

00:04:37 ◼   ► All right, we have some follow-up.

00:04:40 ◼   ► So fun.

00:04:41 ◼   ► Dad let me drive a car.

00:04:42 ◼   ► It's great.

00:04:43 ◼   ► - Why are we careening off this cliff, Jason?

00:04:46 ◼   ► - I don't know how to drive.

00:04:48 ◼   ► That's the problem.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Ironically, I do know how to drive

00:04:50 ◼   ► and Myke does not know how to drive,

00:04:52 ◼   ► but he knows how to drive a podcast, just not a car.

00:04:55 ◼   ► I wanna follow up on the Apple headset

00:04:59 ◼   ► is something we've talked about,

00:05:00 ◼   ► but also really it's, this is,

00:05:02 ◼   ► Technically, this is our weekly

00:05:04 ◼   ► what's in Mark Gurman's Bloomberg newsletter this week

00:05:06 ◼   ► segment, since Mark is very kind enough

00:05:08 ◼   ► to mail that one out on a Sunday,

00:05:10 ◼   ► and then upgrade happens on Monday,

00:05:12 ◼   ► and we get to read Mark's newsletter

00:05:15 ◼   ► and figure out what's going on in there.

00:05:17 ◼   ► Most of his newsletter this week was actually him

00:05:19 ◼   ► complaining about how he got jerked around

00:05:21 ◼   ► in his iPhone rebate,

00:05:23 ◼   ► which is, I thought, an interesting choice,

00:05:24 ◼   ► but there's a bunch of juicy stuff in the stuff

00:05:27 ◼   ► that only goes to Bloomberg subscribers.

00:05:32 ◼   ► - For people who repackaged Bloomberg subscribers.

00:05:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was gonna say, fortunately,

00:05:36 ◼   ► MacRumors has taken those segments

00:05:38 ◼   ► and blown them out into not one, but three separate stories.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Now that is something about this,

00:05:46 ◼   ► but I wanted to start with the AR headset

00:05:48 ◼   ► 'cause Myke and I have talked about that a bit.

00:05:50 ◼   ► And what Mark says is,

00:05:52 ◼   ► "It will be positioned as a dream for game developers.

00:05:55 ◼   ► "It will be for media consumption."

00:05:57 ◼   ► And he expects Apple to work with media partners

00:05:59 ◼   ► to create content for VR on the device.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And third, communications, look for animojis

00:06:07 ◼   ► in a VR FaceTime-like experience to be the new age Zoom,

00:06:11 ◼   ► which AR FaceTime, sorry to people like Ben Thompson

00:06:15 ◼   ► who think it's great, AR FaceTime sounds as appealing

00:06:17 ◼   ► as those AR meetings in Metaspace

00:06:19 ◼   ► where you're a floating torso.

00:06:20 ◼   ► - I just don't get it.

00:06:22 ◼   ► I don't get it.

00:06:23 ◼   ► I don't think, I don't know that.

00:06:24 ◼   ► So I don't know, I've talked to other people,

00:06:26 ◼   ► my co-host over at The Rebound, Lex Friedman,

00:06:29 ◼   ► says that basically whenever he is on FaceTime

00:06:33 ◼   ► and his kids are on FaceTime,

00:06:35 ◼   ► they always want to do the Animoji thing.

00:06:37 ◼   ► And I guess that that is a possibility.

00:06:40 ◼   ► There's not a lot of kids in meetings.

00:06:44 ◼   ► I guess they do have Zoom for classrooms and stuff,

00:06:46 ◼   ► but who's gonna let them use the Animoji stuff for that?

00:06:49 ◼   ► It's a gimmick, but it's not a thing that's actually useful.

00:06:54 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know.

00:06:56 ◼   ► I think that there is,

00:06:57 ◼   ► all those things make sense in terms of like,

00:07:01 ◼   ► they seem well set up for what a VR headset is,

00:07:04 ◼   ► but I'm not sure that they are all things

00:07:06 ◼   ► that Apple will execute well on

00:07:07 ◼   ► and/or are things that people want.

00:07:11 ◼   ► That's my question.

00:07:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's the great mystery.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Now, I have an Oculus Quest 2, is that right?

00:07:18 ◼   ► Yeah, that I got for Christmas last year.

00:07:21 ◼   ► I gave it to the family.

00:07:23 ◼   ► My son and I both play it.

00:07:24 ◼   ► We didn't get my daughter or my wife to use it

00:07:27 ◼   ► other than like momentarily,

00:07:29 ◼   ► but I think it's a lot of fun.

00:07:30 ◼   ► I think the, so I'm interested in this,

00:07:34 ◼   ► the media partners to create content

00:07:36 ◼   ► that will be watched in VR.

00:07:39 ◼   ► I'm curious, watching VR content is very weird.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I will tell you one of the things that I have enjoyed

00:07:44 ◼   ► and I think there is an opportunity

00:07:46 ◼   ► for something in this headset,

00:07:47 ◼   ► especially since it's supposed to have

00:07:48 ◼   ► very high quality displays,

00:07:51 ◼   ► is I've actually watched a couple of 3D movies on it

00:07:56 ◼   ► because it's got the two different eyepieces.

00:07:58 ◼   ► So you can watch a 3D movie

00:08:00 ◼   ► and you can watch it in a 3D space

00:08:02 ◼   ► or you can be floating in a void or whatever.

00:08:04 ◼   ► And as somebody who is always skeptical about 3D movies

00:08:06 ◼   ► at the movie theater,

00:08:07 ◼   ► it is actually kind of cool to have that experience.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And you know, the home 3D movie experience was really bad

00:08:13 ◼   ► 'cause 3D TVs and all of that.

00:08:16 ◼   ► So I do wonder if one of the things Apple might do

00:08:18 ◼   ► is get everybody to dust off all their 3D content

00:08:21 ◼   ► and put that in a, you know,

00:08:23 ◼   ► basically in a version of the iTunes store

00:08:26 ◼   ► or a version of Apple TV Plus or something like that.

00:08:29 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Will the third season of C be in 3D for VR?

00:08:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:34 ◼   ► - Seems like an interesting choice

00:08:36 ◼   ► for a show given its subject matter.

00:08:39 ◼   ► I think the interesting things here are one,

00:08:40 ◼   ► you know, obviously they have a huge content arm now.

00:08:43 ◼   ► So like spinning up deals for content

00:08:45 ◼   ► for stuff specifically tuned for VR/AR.

00:08:49 ◼   ► That's a thing they can reasonably do.

00:08:51 ◼   ► I always have questions about this as an experience

00:08:54 ◼   ► because fundamentally when you're putting on a headset

00:08:56 ◼   ► and sitting there and watching something

00:08:57 ◼   ► is an experience that you're not going to share

00:08:59 ◼   ► with other people sitting around you probably,

00:09:01 ◼   ► unless I'm sure Apple would love you to all buy headsets

00:09:04 ◼   ► so everybody in your family.

00:09:05 ◼   ► - Little bobbing animojis in the theater seats.

00:09:09 ◼   ► - Great, but it does make me think

00:09:12 ◼   ► with Apple's huge push on SharePlay this year

00:09:14 ◼   ► that maybe that's a gateway for them.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Maybe they're envisioning this as like a,

00:09:18 ◼   ► well, now that we have SharePlay for all these others,

00:09:20 ◼   ► of course we have SharePlay for our new headset,

00:09:23 ◼   ► you can log into the metaverse and watch a movie

00:09:26 ◼   ► with your pals who are across the country

00:09:29 ◼   ► and all show up as your avatars or whatever.

00:09:31 ◼   ► - You'll see little animojis in the sense, yeah.

00:09:33 ◼   ► - Maybe, that's plausible.

00:09:35 ◼   ► - A lot of what we do when we're dealing with rumors

00:09:37 ◼   ► like this is try to connect the dots.

00:09:39 ◼   ► And I think you and I have both written articles

00:09:41 ◼   ► about how Apple is really good at,

00:09:46 ◼   ► although they like to keep secrets,

00:09:47 ◼   ► what they are really good at is laying groundwork.

00:09:50 ◼   ► And if you can connect the dots,

00:09:51 ◼   ► sometimes it's unexpected and sometimes it's clear,

00:09:54 ◼   ► but I think that that is a good dot connecting

00:09:57 ◼   ► that you just did there,

00:09:58 ◼   ► which is this idea that SharePlay and that VR headset,

00:10:03 ◼   ► you put those together and you end up

00:10:05 ◼   ► with that shared media consumption thing in a virtual space.

00:10:09 ◼   ► I think like if they are still believers in SharePlay in a year, I think that that's what

00:10:15 ◼   ► they'll have to do.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Plus at this point, you know, by the time they roll it out, it's probably, again, like

00:10:20 ◼   ► you said, groundwork laid for something that may get announced later this year.

00:10:25 ◼   ► And I think SharePlay also links into the idea of if you're going to do gaming on this,

00:10:30 ◼   ► having some sort of multiplayer experience where you interact with people and like have

00:10:33 ◼   ► a conversation, you know, like you're chatting on FaceTime while playing a game with someone.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I think that makes sense as well.

00:10:39 ◼   ► The gaming thing is extremely dicey

00:10:41 ◼   ► because although it is a place where obviously VR

00:10:44 ◼   ► has been most successful right now,

00:10:47 ◼   ► as you guys have discussed and as you and I have discussed,

00:10:50 ◼   ► Apple's relationship with gaming historically is very iffy

00:10:54 ◼   ► and thinking that they're gonna sort of put this platform

00:10:57 ◼   ► out there and they're like, "It's gonna be so great

00:10:58 ◼   ► "that people are gonna flock here

00:10:59 ◼   ► "and make amazing VR games."

00:11:02 ◼   ► Maybe, but I don't have a lot of faith built in.

00:11:05 ◼   ► - I think when Apple has been successful with gaming,

00:11:09 ◼   ► it has never been really on purpose,

00:11:11 ◼   ► but it's been because of their creating a product

00:11:14 ◼   ► that had a superiority over other products.

00:11:18 ◼   ► And their success in the iPhone has been

00:11:21 ◼   ► that they have provided so much graphics horsepower,

00:11:25 ◼   ► and also so many users,

00:11:28 ◼   ► that it has driven people to the iPhone game market.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And that's, I think that's the scenario

00:11:34 ◼   ► that you would have to look at here is that if Apple doing an AR headset or a VR headset

00:11:41 ◼   ► drives more sales of VR headsets than any other developer ever, and you can take your

00:11:48 ◼   ► iOS games especially and convert them fairly readily for this format, and it's got the

00:11:53 ◼   ► advantage of Apple Silicon so it's actually maybe the most capable untethered VR headset

00:11:58 ◼   ► out there, you know, what you hope is you put all that together and the developers are

00:12:03 ◼   ► right, what we have to be there. But that's a big leap, right? And it requires you to

00:12:10 ◼   ► build it in for them to come, and are they going to come? Because Apple, yes. Anytime

00:12:14 ◼   ► Apple has done a very careful, like, "Here is our game strategy," it's sort of been,

00:12:19 ◼   ► "Eh, okay." Whereas if Apple just sort of sticks to what it's good at and says, "We

00:12:22 ◼   ► made this great platform and people love it," then the game developers say, "We want to

00:12:25 ◼   ► be there."

00:12:26 ◼   ► Steve McLaughlin Right. And I mean, they've tried this, and

00:12:28 ◼   ► to a certain degree, I mean, Apple Silicon, Macs, you know, there is the ability to port

00:12:32 ◼   ► your games from iOS over there. I don't think that's been a particularly successful platform

00:12:38 ◼   ► as a result, at least so far. Maybe as the transition sort of completes and there are

00:12:43 ◼   ► more and more devices running on Apple Silicon, developers will find it more attractive to

00:12:48 ◼   ► move their iOS games over there. But so far we haven't seen a mass exodus of iOS games

00:12:53 ◼   ► onto the Mac OS. And the Mac is stuck in that regard because it's got that, it doesn't have

00:12:57 ◼   ► the touchscreen interface of iOS which helps make it very compelling in a lot of the games

00:13:01 ◼   ► that you play mobile, and it doesn't traditionally have the stuff that console or PC gamers want

00:13:08 ◼   ► to use or want to play. So they've always been a little stuck in the middle there, and

00:13:12 ◼   ► I think, I don't know, like you said, it's never something that they've really succeeded

00:13:15 ◼   ► at when they've tried to do it, but sort of when they make a great product that people

00:13:19 ◼   ► want to use, the games seem to follow.

00:13:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it's this really interesting conundrum of, like, Apple cares about games, but Apple

00:13:28 ◼   ► Apple caring about games is not what makes Apple succeed at games. Apple doing other

00:13:33 ◼   ► things is what makes Apple succeed at games. It's just always been that way since the Mac

00:13:38 ◼   ► days. It's just always been that way. Anyway, that is, we may 2022 may be the year of the

00:13:46 ◼   ► Apple headset at last. We'll see. It's been rumored so long, but unlike the Apple car,

00:13:52 ◼   ► it seems to be like maybe on the conveyor belt and slowly headed in our direction or

00:13:57 ◼   ► in the pipeline if you want to use that metaphor instead.

00:14:01 ◼   ► There are more Mark Gurman reports though,

00:14:03 ◼   ► but wait, there's more.

00:14:05 ◼   ► There's an overview on a bunch of other 2022 plans,

00:14:10 ◼   ► iPad updates, including an iPad Pro with wireless charging,

00:14:15 ◼   ► an iPad Air refresh, 'cause it's sort of a little,

00:14:18 ◼   ► it's a little long on the tooth now,

00:14:20 ◼   ► and maybe redesigning the base iPad

00:14:24 ◼   ► to be more in line with the other iPads

00:14:27 ◼   ► in terms of thinner and maybe no home button

00:14:30 ◼   ► on the front of it and maybe a flat side

00:14:33 ◼   ► so they can put Pencil 2 on it

00:14:34 ◼   ► instead of the original Apple Pencil,

00:14:36 ◼   ► which is what it currently uses.

00:14:38 ◼   ► - That's interesting.

00:14:38 ◼   ► I mean, I've been kind of waiting for them

00:14:40 ◼   ► to get their ducks in a row with the iPad lineup

00:14:42 ◼   ► because they release new models of iPads

00:14:45 ◼   ► at different times throughout the year.

00:14:47 ◼   ► And so therefore they're never quite in sync.

00:14:49 ◼   ► Like the iPad Air right now is a very tricky device

00:14:52 ◼   ► to recommend because it is expensive for what it is.

00:14:55 ◼   ► And once you get into sort of iPad Air price range,

00:14:58 ◼   ► an iPad Pro starts to look very appealing

00:15:00 ◼   ► for only a modest additional fee.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Whereas the base model iPad is a great value,

00:15:07 ◼   ► but it is definitely like the tech of yesteryear

00:15:11 ◼   ► in many ways.

00:15:12 ◼   ► - I mean, it's inevitable that it has to get revised

00:15:14 ◼   ► into something that looks like all the other iPads.

00:15:16 ◼   ► And the iPad Mini already went there this year.

00:15:18 ◼   ► So it feels like since it's inevitable,

00:15:20 ◼   ► next year is as good a time as any.

00:15:22 ◼   ► And I think Germin's report suggests that

00:15:25 ◼   ► Apple may have been shooting to get that out this year,

00:15:28 ◼   ► and it just was not something that they were capable of doing.

00:15:31 ◼   ► So they kicked it down the road a year,

00:15:32 ◼   ► but that we should expect to see that.

00:15:34 ◼   ► And I think that's about right.

00:15:36 ◼   ► I don't expect massive changes to the iPad Pro

00:15:39 ◼   ► because they just did some pretty impressive changes

00:15:42 ◼   ► other than bringing mini-LED to the smaller iPad Pro model.

00:15:47 ◼   ► But I'd be surprised if it gets a complete remake

00:15:50 ◼   ► because they just sort of did it,

00:15:51 ◼   ► and it's state of the art now in a lot of ways

00:15:54 ◼   ► other than dropping presumably like an M2 processor in there,

00:15:57 ◼   ► just like whatever is powering the new MacBook Air

00:16:00 ◼   ► that he has talked about, and that also he restated here.

00:16:03 ◼   ► - It is then very interesting.

00:16:05 ◼   ► Like if Apple does redo that base level iPad

00:16:08 ◼   ► with a lot of the benefits that you see,

00:16:09 ◼   ► new design, et cetera, Pencil 2 compatibility,

00:16:12 ◼   ► what is then the story we're telling

00:16:14 ◼   ► about something like the iPad Air?

00:16:15 ◼   ► Will the iPad Air come down in price

00:16:17 ◼   ► to sort of bridge that gap a little better,

00:16:19 ◼   ► or are there gonna be additional features to the iPad Air

00:16:22 ◼   ► that won't be in the base model.

00:16:24 ◼   ► I think they need to figure out

00:16:26 ◼   ► what their positioning is for that line.

00:16:27 ◼   ► - I'm a big fan of identifying product differentiation.

00:16:31 ◼   ► I think that it's a thing that is really important

00:16:33 ◼   ► when you understand what Apple is doing.

00:16:35 ◼   ► And that has been the challenge with the iPad Air,

00:16:38 ◼   ► especially as it's kind of an iPad Pro, but not.

00:16:41 ◼   ► And what's the optimal price?

00:16:43 ◼   ► 'Cause what they really wanna do is design the iPad Air

00:16:46 ◼   ► in such a way that they can price it

00:16:48 ◼   ► in the right space in between the Pro and the iPad.

00:16:50 ◼   ► 'Cause it is honestly, like the base iPad,

00:16:54 ◼   ► it's gonna be, people will buy it for their kids

00:16:56 ◼   ► and it's gonna go into schools,

00:16:57 ◼   ► but it totally is the classic marketing thing

00:17:01 ◼   ► of good, better, best, which is you get people

00:17:03 ◼   ► into the store with a low price,

00:17:05 ◼   ► and then you upsell them on the mid price,

00:17:07 ◼   ► and the mid price is the one that most people buy.

00:17:09 ◼   ► And that's the iPad Air.

00:17:10 ◼   ► It's like, it looks kinda like an iPad Pro,

00:17:12 ◼   ► but it's not quite, but still it looks really nice.

00:17:15 ◼   ► And this one looks like an old iPad.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Like they have to judge like the right gap

00:17:21 ◼   ► between those products in terms of features and price

00:17:23 ◼   ► so that people are kind of motivated

00:17:25 ◼   ► to spend a little more money and get that mid range.

00:17:29 ◼   ► Whereas the Pro, like I do wonder sometimes

00:17:31 ◼   ► if the iPad Pro is going to keep getting more expensive

00:17:34 ◼   ► because that's another, unfortunately,

00:17:36 ◼   ► as somebody who uses one,

00:17:38 ◼   ► that's another way that you could differentiate it

00:17:40 ◼   ► or spread it out from the iPad Air is to say,

00:17:42 ◼   ► well, yeah, but the iPad Pro costs so much more

00:17:44 ◼   ► than the iPad Air.

00:17:45 ◼   ► I think they I honestly think the error if they could hit that target point about like 500 bucks

00:17:49 ◼   ► 499 for sort of the intro level error. That's the traditional price of the iPad right going back to the original iPad 499

00:17:56 ◼   ► I think that's where you want to be because you're just enough over that 329 price point that it's like

00:18:01 ◼   ► You know you're gonna get more for your buck, but it is more expensive

00:18:03 ◼   ► It's not the bargain basement sort of thing

00:18:05 ◼   ► But it keeps it well south of sort of the iPad pro ghost

00:18:09 ◼   ► Right and then you get that that base iPad the goal of base iPad is to have a as lower price as possible to get

00:18:14 ◼   ► people into the iPad line. I think it's one of the reasons the iPad has had its comeback

00:18:18 ◼   ► is that Apple has realized that instead of having over the last five years or whatever,

00:18:22 ◼   ► instead of having like an iPad in the middle, you need something that's cheap and you also

00:18:26 ◼   ► then can create something that's much more expensive and profitable but the like hardcore

00:18:31 ◼   ► people are gonna buy it. I'm one of those people and I love my iPad Pro. I love it.

00:18:36 ◼   ► Love it. My M1 iPad Pro with the big one with a mini LED. It's gorgeous. It's amazing. So

00:18:41 ◼   ► So I'm happy to spend that money every few years on one of those.

00:18:44 ◼   ► But there are a lot of people who even looked at the standard iPad back in the day and were

00:18:48 ◼   ► like, "It's too expensive.

00:18:49 ◼   ► I can get this Amazon, this terrible Amazon tablet, but I can still get it for a six-pack."

00:18:53 ◼   ► Right?

00:18:54 ◼   ► Remember that when they were offering six-packs?

00:18:55 ◼   ► Yeah, the quantity solves all your problem, right?

00:18:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:00 ◼   ► I mean, I know one tablet, one bad tablet is bad, but six bad tablets is also bad.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Worse.

00:19:06 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe, maybe.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Mark Gurman, since we're in the Gurman recap section, friend of the show, Mark Gurman,

00:19:13 ◼   ► he's been on the show.

00:19:15 ◼   ► Up Apple Watch update, he says, you know, series 8.

00:19:17 ◼   ► He's also, this is a really good newsletter because it's very much like him wrapping up

00:19:22 ◼   ► his reports from across the year in a kind of a nice package.

00:19:27 ◼   ► Not a lot of these are new, but it's all in one place.

00:19:30 ◼   ► So for Apple Watch, he says, yes, there'll be a series 8.

00:19:32 ◼   ► He says there'll be an updated SE model and the new rugged sports edition watch that is

00:19:40 ◼   ► aimed at athletes.

00:19:42 ◼   ► Now Myke and I have talked about the sports edition.

00:19:44 ◼   ► I think that's such a great idea because instead of creating a, instead of creating a rugged

00:19:50 ◼   ► something or rather around like a rugged case or something like that, it's like, no, why

00:19:55 ◼   ► don't we just take the guts of an Apple watch and put it in a completely different design

00:20:01 ◼   ► for athletes.

00:20:04 ◼   ► And you can, same software, probably same hardware,

00:20:07 ◼   ► or mostly the same hardware,

00:20:08 ◼   ► maybe the sensors are different,

00:20:09 ◼   ► but the shell is totally different.

00:20:12 ◼   ► And so many watch lines out there in the world,

00:20:15 ◼   ► like you think about your G-shocks or something like that,

00:20:18 ◼   ► like there are active watches that are rugged

00:20:21 ◼   ► and that are for sports.

00:20:23 ◼   ► And Apple's just sort of had their little metal rectangle.

00:20:26 ◼   ► So that rugged model makes a lot of sense to me.

00:20:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, I agree.

00:20:30 ◼   ► I think it's interesting to do the differentiation based on something sort of more aesthetic

00:20:34 ◼   ► I would expect it to have you know a different watch face or something kind of like the

00:20:38 ◼   ► They've done with the Nike watch face exactly and maybe some different sensors or some different little things

00:20:43 ◼   ► But you know ultimately it will probably be a series 8. I would guess on the outside

00:20:49 ◼   ► Yeah, but in terms of the tech, but the outside would be totally different

00:20:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's the equivalent of doing like different case materials right like I mean some ways you've done your ceramic

00:20:57 ◼   ► you've done your titanium and then it's like,

00:20:59 ◼   ► oh, here's our rugged case, whatever that is.

00:21:00 ◼   ► - Time for rubber or rugged or whatever it is.

00:21:03 ◼   ► Updated SE fascinates me.

00:21:06 ◼   ► So many people who talk about Apple all the time

00:21:08 ◼   ► have been talking about this weird dichotomy

00:21:10 ◼   ► between that very, very, very old series three

00:21:12 ◼   ► that's still kicking around and the SE

00:21:14 ◼   ► and the perception that we all thought

00:21:16 ◼   ► when the SE came out that it was gonna replace the three

00:21:19 ◼   ► and it didn't and a year later it still didn't.

00:21:21 ◼   ► And so when I hear updated SE, I actually start to wonder,

00:21:25 ◼   ► Does that mean better or does it mean like cheaper to make

00:21:30 ◼   ► so that they can get really get rid of the series three?

00:21:32 ◼   ► 'Cause I have a hard time imagining them selling

00:21:34 ◼   ► the series three in the fall of 2022.

00:21:37 ◼   ► It feels like it's gotta go.

00:21:38 ◼   ► - It's sold.

00:21:39 ◼   ► - The SE, I would think that what you'd wanna do

00:21:42 ◼   ► with the SE is make that product that is,

00:21:46 ◼   ► maybe the first SE shot a little too high,

00:21:50 ◼   ► but I honestly don't know because I'm still kinda baffled

00:21:54 ◼   ► by the fact that the SE is still kicking around

00:21:57 ◼   ► in the middle and the three is still kicking around

00:22:00 ◼   ► at the bottom, so I don't really know

00:22:01 ◼   ► what they're up to here, but they have two paths to go.

00:22:03 ◼   ► It's just like the iPad, Dan.

00:22:04 ◼   ► It's just like the iPad. - Yeah, exactly.

00:22:05 ◼   ► - They got the two paths.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Do you make it an affordable kinda mid-range watch

00:22:09 ◼   ► or do you drag it all the way down

00:22:11 ◼   ► so you can get rid of your low-end, old model?

00:22:13 ◼   ► - Well, the question is differentiation again.

00:22:15 ◼   ► Like, what is the purpose of this?

00:22:17 ◼   ► Is it, as you said, to be that base level model

00:22:19 ◼   ► that is gonna get people in the door

00:22:21 ◼   ► and you're say like, "Ah, you can buy one for,

00:22:23 ◼   ► I don't know, $199 or something, right?

00:22:25 ◼   ► I'm sure they would love to have a watch

00:22:27 ◼   ► that's compelling down there,

00:22:28 ◼   ► but then what do you take out

00:22:30 ◼   ► so that it's not cannibalizing sales

00:22:31 ◼   ► of the more expensive watches, right?

00:22:33 ◼   ► I mean, right now, it doesn't have, I believe,

00:22:35 ◼   ► the always-on screen, right,

00:22:36 ◼   ► which is sort of in both the more recent ones.

00:22:39 ◼   ► The three being around especially is weird

00:22:42 ◼   ► because with the SE, I think with the three,

00:22:45 ◼   ► the SE and the SEVEN, you have different screen sizes, right?

00:22:49 ◼   ► 'Cause the SEVEN got larger again.

00:22:51 ◼   ► So a three is basically, the SE is basically a series four-ish with a couple slightly different capabilities.

00:22:58 ◼   ► Yes.

00:22:59 ◼   ► And then there's the three which again makes no sense.

00:23:02 ◼   ► Three is there to hold that price point but I cannot imagine a lot of people are buying it.

00:23:06 ◼   ► So yeah I don't know I think it will depend in some ways on what other features will be rolled into the eight.

00:23:11 ◼   ► Because Apple does a thing of you know sometimes they keep around older models,

00:23:15 ◼   ► sometimes they have something like the SE that's sort of like we've kind of packaged a bunch of older models into one.

00:23:20 ◼   ► You know, rather than keeping our old Series 6 around or something, or a Series 5, we have

00:23:25 ◼   ► an SE that has some of the features of the 5, but also lacks some of the features that

00:23:30 ◼   ► the 7 and high-end watches still have.

00:23:32 ◼   ► Yeah, and if I had to pick one thing, that would be my guess about the SE, is they will

00:23:36 ◼   ► update the internals a little bit, but they'll still use that screen that is that sort of

00:23:41 ◼   ► second generation Apple Watch screen, and they will try to make it so that they can

00:23:46 ◼   ► finally get the margins to the point where they can make that their low-end model because

00:23:51 ◼   ► you know the the three is just going to be so long on the tooth at that point. As someone

00:23:55 ◼   ► who wears a Series 4 and still the SE was at such a weird product because it felt like

00:24:00 ◼   ► well it's still it's a very lateral move for me like it doesn't actually get me any of

00:24:05 ◼   ► the features that I wanted. No because it's but it's it's weird too because I mean it

00:24:10 ◼   ► is not just literally a rebranded Series 4. Exactly. It's like in between Series it's

00:24:16 ◼   ► It's a very weird. - Yeah, it's a strange product.

00:24:18 ◼   ► I mean, that's kind of the SE thing for Apple in general

00:24:21 ◼   ► with the phones. - Sure.

00:24:22 ◼   ► - And I, yeah, I see why they're doing it,

00:24:24 ◼   ► but it does run into problems where now they have sort

00:24:27 ◼   ► of backed themselves into a corner, so.

00:24:29 ◼   ► - It'll be interesting to see how they update it.

00:24:30 ◼   ► - And fourth in our list of ways that we use all

00:24:35 ◼   ► of the parts of the Buffalo,

00:24:36 ◼   ► the Buffalo being Mark Gurman's newsletter,

00:24:39 ◼   ► recapping his plan, five new Macs for 2022, he says,

00:24:45 ◼   ► from Apple, including, well, let's see here,

00:24:48 ◼   ► a high-end iMac, yay, with Apple Silicon

00:24:51 ◼   ► set above the 27-inch iMac,

00:24:54 ◼   ► a significant MacBook Air revamp featuring the M2,

00:24:57 ◼   ► and a new design, colors, maybe, colors?

00:24:59 ◼   ► An updated Mac Mini, that's the, you know,

00:25:02 ◼   ► replacing the Intel Mac Mini that's still there, folks,

00:25:05 ◼   ► the high-end Mac Mini's still there, so replacing that.

00:25:08 ◼   ► Maybe replacing the low-end one or not,

00:25:10 ◼   ► I'm actually kind of curious if they continue

00:25:12 ◼   ► to differentiate and have sort of like the silver one

00:25:14 ◼   ► the Space Gray one, and there's a Pro and an iPro.

00:25:17 ◼   ► He says, "A new version of the entry-level MacBook Pro,"

00:25:19 ◼   ► so that 13-inch model, that is weird now.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - Interesting choice there.

00:25:23 ◼   ► - Touch bar, touch bar needs to be removed.

00:25:26 ◼   ► And a new Mac Pro, there it is with Apple Silicon.

00:25:29 ◼   ► So that's his drop on those five Macs for 2022,

00:25:34 ◼   ► which sounds about right.

00:25:34 ◼   ► That's sort of what we're expecting.

00:25:36 ◼   ► - Mostly things that we've all sort of assumed are coming

00:25:38 ◼   ► because they fill gaps that are in the current lineup,

00:25:40 ◼   ► right, specifically the high-end iMac

00:25:42 ◼   ► and the new Mac Pro are both things that need to make the jump as well as the high-end Mac

00:25:47 ◼   ► Mini.

00:25:48 ◼   ► Interesting that they are revamping potentially that entry-level MacBook Pro.

00:25:51 ◼   ► It does make sense from a price point perspective but it also is weird because is it going to

00:25:55 ◼   ► be a 13-inch MacBook Pro?

00:25:57 ◼   ► Is it going to follow the design language of the new ones?

00:26:00 ◼   ► I mean, now that you've got a 14-inch in the mix, I'm kind of curious about what that product

00:26:05 ◼   ► is exactly because it sits weirdly between the MacBook Air and the new fancy MacBook

00:26:11 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:26:13 ◼   ► - We're back to differentiation again, right?

00:26:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:26:17 ◼   ► What's this?

00:26:17 ◼   ► And then the MacBook Air revamp is most interesting

00:26:19 ◼   ► because it's the sort of, that's the next gen,

00:26:23 ◼   ► a new processor potentially.

00:26:25 ◼   ► And also it's the first one that we'll see

00:26:27 ◼   ► like a second generation Apple Silicon model, right?

00:26:32 ◼   ► I mean, since the M1 Air was one of the first ones

00:26:35 ◼   ► to roll out and I'm intrigued

00:26:37 ◼   ► because that will probably be a much bigger departure.

00:26:39 ◼   ► The M1 Air was essentially the pre-existing Intel MacBook Air,

00:26:44 ◼   ► but just, you know, with different guts, basically.

00:26:47 ◼   ► - Right. - So, yeah.

00:26:48 ◼   ► - I'm intrigued by the 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:26:54 ◼   ► because I do think there's a way for them

00:26:56 ◼   ► to differentiate it, and the way is

00:26:58 ◼   ► they put an M1 Pro in it.

00:27:00 ◼   ► So the M2 continues to be low power,

00:27:04 ◼   ► but has great efficiency, and that's in the MacBook Air.

00:27:07 ◼   ► And then, right now the M1 is the MacBook Pro.

00:27:10 ◼   ► And it's like, why is that Pro then?

00:27:13 ◼   ► What makes it Pro?

00:27:14 ◼   ► And the answer is it's thicker, it's got a fan,

00:27:15 ◼   ► that's about it.

00:27:16 ◼   ► But they can easily refresh the 13 to have the same chip

00:27:20 ◼   ► as the 14 and the 16 and take the touch bar out.

00:27:24 ◼   ► And maybe it doesn't have the fancy screens

00:27:27 ◼   ► that the 14 and the 16 does,

00:27:29 ◼   ► but it's more affordable than the 14 and the 16

00:27:32 ◼   ► while still offering a base model with a bin obviously,

00:27:36 ◼   ► a Pro chip instead of the M1 or M2 chip.

00:27:39 ◼   ► And that, I think that's enough, right,

00:27:41 ◼   ► to call it a MacBook Pro and to price it up from the air,

00:27:44 ◼   ► but let it be an entry into the Pro space.

00:27:48 ◼   ► And then maybe they, you know,

00:27:49 ◼   ► it's got enough of the cooling system in there

00:27:50 ◼   ► that they can let you spend more money on it

00:27:53 ◼   ► and spec up that process.

00:27:56 ◼   ► - I do wonder about them updating it

00:27:58 ◼   ► without changing the design at all,

00:27:59 ◼   ► because it does feel very old.

00:28:01 ◼   ► It does feel very Intel in its design.

00:28:03 ◼   ► - It does.

00:28:03 ◼   ► I mean, if they end up revving the Air and the, you know,

00:28:08 ◼   ► now they've got the new MacBook Pros,

00:28:10 ◼   ► it starts to feel a little bit like that old,

00:28:12 ◼   ► what was it like, there was like an old non-retina one

00:28:14 ◼   ► or something MacBook that stuck around for a long time.

00:28:16 ◼   ► It had like a DVD drive in it and stuff.

00:28:18 ◼   ► And if it starts to feel a little bit like that,

00:28:19 ◼   ► it's like, well, we kept it here for a reason.

00:28:21 ◼   ► We want to hit that price point

00:28:22 ◼   ► and provide certain power or whatever,

00:28:23 ◼   ► but it definitely feels like an older version.

00:28:26 ◼   ► - But when we talk differentiation, I think that's it, right?

00:28:29 ◼   ► I think that's it.

00:28:30 ◼   ► It's like you want the fancy new 14

00:28:31 ◼   ► with the gorgeous screen that is like a extended dynamic range screen, well, you're going to

00:28:36 ◼   ► have to pay for the 14. The 13's got the old screen, and it doesn't look as fancy, and

00:28:42 ◼   ► it doesn't have all the fancy ports. Maybe it's got some different ports than it currently

00:28:46 ◼   ► has, but still, it's just—there are a lot of ways—like, that thing doesn't need to

00:28:50 ◼   ► be cutting edge, but maybe having a Pro chip in it instead of an M1 would be—

00:28:54 ◼   ► Steve McLaughlin It could be enough.

00:28:55 ◼   ► David

00:28:55 ◼   ► a little slot in there for it to differentiate is like, I want a pro model, but I don't want

00:29:00 ◼   ► to spend a lot of money. You end up with that 13-inch model that's a compromise. I'm not

00:29:05 ◼   ► saying that it's a great product, but I'm saying I can see Apple doing it. If that makes

00:29:10 ◼   ► any sense, like, yeah, we can do that. Put that in there. And a new Mac Pro. Like, I

00:29:15 ◼   ► like the confidence here from Mark Gurman saying, yeah, that's going to happen. We don't

00:29:18 ◼   ► know the details of exactly what that is. He keeps on saying that it's like a smaller

00:29:26 ◼   ► design, which is not surprising necessarily because the current Mac Pro is very tall and

00:29:33 ◼   ► what would go inside. And I will refer you to about 10 different episodes of Accidental

00:29:37 ◼   ► Tech Podcast where they have combination of analyzed and wish cast exactly what could

00:29:42 ◼   ► be inside. I listen every week. I think it's fascinating. But there are lots of decisions

00:29:47 ◼   ► that Apple has has made with this product that we don't know about that will lead. And

00:29:52 ◼   ► this is I always bring up the peril the parable of the three blind men and the elephant where

00:29:56 ◼   ► we get individual information and we don't know what we're seeing. And I feel that with

00:30:01 ◼   ► a Mac Pro like there's there's probably some stuff that they made decisions by where that

00:30:06 ◼   ► report of the small Mac Pro were like, oh, right. That's what it is, but we don't know

00:30:11 ◼   ► what it is yet. So looking forward to year of year 2022. It's the year of the Apple headset.

00:30:16 ◼   ► It's the year of the Apple Silicon Mac Pro, apparently.

00:30:19 ◼   ► - Big year.

00:30:20 ◼   ► - Sounds good.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Sounds good.

00:30:22 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to 2022.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Maybe it won't disappoint me.

00:30:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:30:27 ◼   ► - Oh, now you've jinxed it all.

00:30:28 ◼   ► - The track record is not great.

00:30:29 ◼   ► One last thing before we move on,

00:30:31 ◼   ► which is the Upgrades, the eighth annual,

00:30:35 ◼   ► a shocking name, the eighth.

00:30:37 ◼   ► And it seems just like yesterday,

00:30:38 ◼   ► I was telling Myke we couldn't call it

00:30:40 ◼   ► the first annual Upgrades, and now here we are.

00:30:42 ◼   ► The eighth annual upgrades, the voting is open.

00:30:44 ◼   ► You need to help us with nominees

00:30:49 ◼   ► because this is the thing

00:30:50 ◼   ► where you get to have your voice heard

00:30:51 ◼   ► and also you get to remind us of things

00:30:53 ◼   ► that we may have forgotten about for the year,

00:30:55 ◼   ► products and stories and other things like that.

00:30:57 ◼   ► Go to upgradees.vote to nominate now.

00:31:01 ◼   ► And you can also find all of our previous winners

00:31:03 ◼   ► at upgradees.com.

00:31:06 ◼   ► That episode announcing the upgradees

00:31:08 ◼   ► will be recorded and released on December 27th.

00:31:10 ◼   ► It's our last episode of the year as is traditional.

00:31:13 ◼   ► Voting is going to close on Tuesday, December 21st.

00:31:16 ◼   ► So you still got some time,

00:31:17 ◼   ► but definitely send us your favorites

00:31:21 ◼   ► by going to upgradees.vote.

00:31:24 ◼   ► This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by FitBod.

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00:31:29 ◼   ► their health and fitness around this time of year,

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00:31:34 ◼   ► it can sometimes be hard to make fitness a priority.

00:31:36 ◼   ► What you need is a program that works with you,

00:31:39 ◼   ► not against you.

00:31:40 ◼   ► That's why you need FitBod.

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00:33:15 ◼   ► and all of Relay FM.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Now, Dan, you and I have both written columns recently

00:33:21 ◼   ► at Macworld about Apple's sort of coming soon features,

00:33:26 ◼   ► which I think it's worth talking about.

00:33:29 ◼   ► This idea that, and it's happening more often now.

00:33:32 ◼   ► And I don't think the right way to frame it is to say,

00:33:35 ◼   ► It's happening more often that Apple announces features

00:33:37 ◼   ► and then fails to ship them.

00:33:38 ◼   ► I think it's more that Apple is now more open

00:33:42 ◼   ► to announcing features in June,

00:33:45 ◼   ► knowing that they will ship it at some point

00:33:47 ◼   ► during the OS cycle, but not on day one.

00:33:50 ◼   ► - It's a lifespan kind of thing.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Like iOS 15 is a kind of a thing

00:33:54 ◼   ► that's gonna continue evolving

00:33:56 ◼   ► until they basically get to iOS 16 pretty much.

00:33:59 ◼   ► - Exactly right.

00:34:01 ◼   ► Like it's just sometimes they'll do that.

00:34:03 ◼   ► they'll ship it right before the other thing.

00:34:05 ◼   ► It's like, no, we did this thing.

00:34:06 ◼   ► I know that WWDC is next week,

00:34:08 ◼   ► but that thing we promised last year, here it is.

00:34:10 ◼   ► So don't complain about it next week,

00:34:11 ◼   ► 'cause we did announce it this week.

00:34:13 ◼   ► So yeah, I like the discipline

00:34:16 ◼   ► that they're also not gonna ship something

00:34:18 ◼   ► that they, I mean, other than shortcuts, huh, ugh.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - Zing!

00:34:22 ◼   ► - But they're less likely to ship something broken

00:34:25 ◼   ► and more likely to just defer it until it is,

00:34:30 ◼   ► you know, there's only one chance

00:34:32 ◼   ► to make a first impression kind of thing.

00:34:34 ◼   ► I think there's truth in that,

00:34:35 ◼   ► that you roll out a new feature and it's busted,

00:34:38 ◼   ► and people are like, "Well, I'm never trying that again."

00:34:39 ◼   ► So you kind of want it to work the first time out the door.

00:34:42 ◼   ► But there is a large catalog of things

00:34:45 ◼   ► that Apple announced in June,

00:34:47 ◼   ► many of them meant to be here by the, you know,

00:34:51 ◼   ► in the fall, later in the fall is the classic line,

00:34:54 ◼   ► later in the fall.

00:34:54 ◼   ► Well, later in the fall,

00:34:56 ◼   ► we are about two weeks away from it not being fall anymore

00:34:58 ◼   ► here in Cupertino fall, anyway.

00:35:01 ◼   ► - Much less 2021 at all.

00:35:03 ◼   ► - Or by the end of the year,

00:35:04 ◼   ► which is another way that they often phrase this stuff.

00:35:07 ◼   ► So I thought we would go down the list.

00:35:09 ◼   ► Your article definitely went through all of these

00:35:12 ◼   ► and let's do a little check-in on where all this stuff is.

00:35:14 ◼   ► So SharePlay.

00:35:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, we talked a little bit about SharePlay before

00:35:19 ◼   ► when regards to the headset,

00:35:20 ◼   ► but it, so it came out,

00:35:21 ◼   ► it wasn't in the original iOS 15 release.

00:35:23 ◼   ► It got released in 15.1 a few weeks ago at this point.

00:35:27 ◼   ► It is still not available on the Mac,

00:35:31 ◼   ► but it is in the Monterey 12.1 betas,

00:35:33 ◼   ► which have gotten pretty close.

00:35:35 ◼   ► I think the assumption is they will probably ship.

00:35:38 ◼   ► If they didn't ship, basically,

00:35:40 ◼   ► as we started the show today,

00:35:42 ◼   ► then maybe later this week or next week,

00:35:45 ◼   ► I would have to guess,

00:35:45 ◼   ► I would assume they will make that cut off of fall.

00:35:50 ◼   ► But it's definitely, it's interesting

00:35:52 ◼   ► because it was something that they hyped a lot, right?

00:35:56 ◼   ► It was a, if you look down the sort of list of features,

00:36:00 ◼   ► That was the one they spent a lot of time on this year.

00:36:03 ◼   ► And for good reason, I think.

00:36:04 ◼   ► It was very much tied into the pandemic, I think,

00:36:06 ◼   ► in terms of how they were rolling that out.

00:36:09 ◼   ► But it also took a while to get out there.

00:36:12 ◼   ► And then I think there's also been some question

00:36:14 ◼   ► of the uptake of it so far.

00:36:16 ◼   ► I'm not sure how many people are actively using SharePlay,

00:36:19 ◼   ► which is perhaps a whole separate kettle of fish.

00:36:23 ◼   ► - I am looking forward to it being on the Mac

00:36:25 ◼   ► because I do use the Mac all the time,

00:36:28 ◼   ► even though this is probably a more iOS centric feature.

00:36:31 ◼   ► I keep meaning to try out SharePlay,

00:36:33 ◼   ► but of course the challenge with SharePlay

00:36:34 ◼   ► is you need to try it out with other people.

00:36:37 ◼   ► I mean, I guess technically you're gonna have two devices

00:36:39 ◼   ► and how sad is that?

00:36:41 ◼   ► Like I'm sharing it with another device

00:36:42 ◼   ► with another Apple ID, yay!

00:36:45 ◼   ► - That's not using it though, right?

00:36:46 ◼   ► I mean, that's us testing it and fiddling with it,

00:36:48 ◼   ► but it's not a thing where it's organically getting used.

00:36:50 ◼   ► And I think, you know, it's interesting you say that you,

00:36:52 ◼   ► you know, obviously you use the Mac.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Do you do FaceTime a lot on the Mac?

00:36:56 ◼   ► I do it more than you might think, but it's mostly because my daughter calls me at random

00:37:01 ◼   ► times and I'm working, and so I will just answer on the Mac because what else?

00:37:07 ◼   ► But yeah, I don't initiate FaceTime calls from the Mac ever.

00:37:09 ◼   ► And so I can think of it being interesting.

00:37:11 ◼   ► I mean, I think as I've talked to you about before, I do a podcast with my friend Lex

00:37:15 ◼   ► Friedman called Not Playing with Lex and Dan where we watch movies and record a podcast

00:37:20 ◼   ► as we watch them.

00:37:21 ◼   ► So for that circumstance, it seems like, oh, SharePlay is perfect, right?

00:37:25 ◼   ► exactly what I want. So we don't have to fiddle with like, "We got our Zoom call up, we got

00:37:29 ◼   ► a sync playback." Rather, we can just sort of call and hit a play button and you're off

00:37:34 ◼   ► and running. But other than things like that, I mean, I just don't know if this is something

00:37:39 ◼   ► that just doesn't have a lot of application for me or whether it's a more broad, like,

00:37:44 ◼   ► doesn't have a lot of application for lots of people. So I'm glad that we'll have the

00:37:48 ◼   ► feature parody on the Mac and the iOS side. I think that's smart. And it does raise all

00:37:52 ◼   ► these interesting questions of where are they going with this is this something

00:37:55 ◼   ► there you know if this is this big an initiative it doesn't have another shoe

00:37:58 ◼   ► to drop is there something coming with the headset but yeah I'm glad that it's

00:38:03 ◼   ► sort of getting out there but it did take longer for something that they

00:38:06 ◼   ► spent a lot of time talking about during WWDC app privacy report yeah this is

00:38:13 ◼   ► actually in the iOS 15.2 beta is another thing that they touted pretty highly

00:38:17 ◼   ► sort of comes on the heels of the app tracking transparency stuff they did

00:38:20 ◼   ► earlier this year with the end of iOS 14.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Of course, that kept getting pushed back and pushed back

00:38:24 ◼   ► in terms of implementation.

00:38:26 ◼   ► And of course, it really pissed off Facebook.

00:38:29 ◼   ► I think this will probably be pretty similar.

00:38:32 ◼   ► It is in the 15.2 betas.

00:38:33 ◼   ► I was actually looking at it the other day

00:38:35 ◼   ► 'cause on my iPad, which is still on the beta train,

00:38:38 ◼   ► 'cause I was curious to see.

00:38:40 ◼   ► And I was kinda blown away to see,

00:38:41 ◼   ► like I had watched like one episode of Wheel of Time

00:38:43 ◼   ► on Amazon Prime, and there was like the Prime video app

00:38:46 ◼   ► definitely had like way more phone homes

00:38:49 ◼   ► than almost anything else, like twice as much

00:38:51 ◼   ► as the next thing down on my list.

00:38:52 ◼   ► That said, I don't use my iPad every day all the time,

00:38:57 ◼   ► so I will be more interested to see

00:38:59 ◼   ► when I'm using it on my phone exactly how that pans out.

00:39:02 ◼   ► But it is basically a screen that tells you

00:39:05 ◼   ► how often all your apps are checking in

00:39:08 ◼   ► with their servers at home or asking for permissions

00:39:11 ◼   ► to certain things and then how often, right?

00:39:13 ◼   ► So in a lot of cases it's like,

00:39:15 ◼   ► how often does this app want your location?

00:39:17 ◼   ► How often does this app want your access to your microphone

00:39:19 ◼   ► or things like that?

00:39:21 ◼   ► So I think that's interesting.

00:39:22 ◼   ► I think it's a really good addition.

00:39:24 ◼   ► I'm kind of curious to see just how much it pans out

00:39:26 ◼   ► in terms of, are developers gonna try

00:39:29 ◼   ► and find ways around this?

00:39:30 ◼   ► Like, I mean, it seems pretty sketchy if they do that,

00:39:34 ◼   ► but I can't imagine Facebook necessarily wants

00:39:36 ◼   ► to report all the stuff its apps are asking for.

00:39:39 ◼   ► - This is a screen where you can go in and say,

00:39:43 ◼   ► show me all the apps that are accessing

00:39:46 ◼   ► this particular sensor or using this kind of activity

00:39:50 ◼   ► down to a domain level that is the,

00:39:55 ◼   ► it's not the nutrition label,

00:39:56 ◼   ► it's like the analysis of what you ate.

00:39:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:40:00 ◼   ► - And where it went.

00:40:02 ◼   ► It's interesting.

00:40:03 ◼   ► So it's in the beta.

00:40:06 ◼   ► - And again- - So it's probably

00:40:07 ◼   ► coming soon.

00:40:08 ◼   ► - 15.2, I'm guessing probably shifts

00:40:10 ◼   ► whenever Monterey 12.1 does,

00:40:12 ◼   ► so probably in the next week or two is my guess.

00:40:14 ◼   ► - Yes, you would think.

00:40:15 ◼   ► - It's pretty close before everybody goes on their holiday

00:40:19 ◼   ► vacation. - Yeah, on holiday break.

00:40:20 ◼   ► Yep, exactly.

00:40:21 ◼   ► - All right.

00:40:22 ◼   ► Now I've been informed by Apple that,

00:40:27 ◼   ► by a footnote on Apple's website that when you die,

00:40:31 ◼   ► coming later this year,

00:40:32 ◼   ► you will be able to use the digital legacy feature,

00:40:36 ◼   ► which is a good feature with a bad footnote.

00:40:39 ◼   ► But this is also one of those things that's in the category

00:40:43 ◼   ► of coming later.

00:40:43 ◼   ► the idea that you'll be able to basically mark somebody

00:40:47 ◼   ► to take your Apple ID and all of that over

00:40:52 ◼   ► if and when you pass away,

00:40:55 ◼   ► so that there isn't sort of a sudden lockout on an account

00:40:57 ◼   ► and nobody knows and nobody can get into it.

00:40:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, this was briefly in the betas very early on,

00:41:03 ◼   ► and I know because I actually put in,

00:41:06 ◼   ► like I set it up and printed out like a piece of paper

00:41:09 ◼   ► that had the recovery code on it,

00:41:10 ◼   ► and then I think it got removed in subsequent betas,

00:41:13 ◼   ► But I still have like my printout of like like I put my wife in charge or whatever. I was like here

00:41:18 ◼   ► You can have my account if you decide to that. I am no longer with you, and you need access to it

00:41:24 ◼   ► I think this is a great program. I mean it is something that I know a lot of people struggle with I have

00:41:30 ◼   ► You know remember my my one of my cousins trying to like cancel an AOL account for one of his

00:41:36 ◼   ► Deceased parents and them being like constantly trying to like get him to renew. Well, maybe

00:41:41 ◼   ► He's like no, she's not gonna need it anymore

00:41:44 ◼   ► Sorry, like and and that is a it's a terrible situation to be in when you have to deal with all these other stresses

00:41:51 ◼   ► so having an ability to

00:41:53 ◼   ► Set this up and and get access after the fact is I'm sure super beneficial but it is one of those things that requires a good

00:42:00 ◼   ► Education program to like people got to know it's there

00:42:03 ◼   ► And I'm guessing a lot of us will probably end up helping said he set this up before right for loved ones

00:42:09 ◼   ► I assume that after people update to iOS 15.2 when it's final prompt or something

00:42:15 ◼   ► There was gonna be a little thing that comes up that says hey digital legacy. Yeah, you're you you're gonna die

00:42:20 ◼   ► Don't lose your app. Let's think about what's important here your Apple ID

00:42:25 ◼   ► Yeah, it's way. It's when that dialog box has a countdown clock on it that I think it's really unsettling well

00:42:30 ◼   ► It's gonna be an animoji of a skull

00:42:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:42:34 ◼   ► Grim Reaper Ian emoji is gonna come up and say,

00:42:36 ◼   ► "Thumbs up."

00:42:37 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a super important thing.

00:42:39 ◼   ► One of my earliest memories is my mom getting upset

00:42:42 ◼   ► when we would get mail for her father

00:42:45 ◼   ► who had died when I was two years old, right?

00:42:49 ◼   ► And I definitely remember that she would get upset about

00:42:52 ◼   ► that and like stop sending that.

00:42:53 ◼   ► And she gets mail from my dad now who passed away

00:42:57 ◼   ► a few years ago and she's like,

00:43:00 ◼   ► he's not gonna take advantage of this offer.

00:43:02 ◼   ► It's not gonna happen.

00:43:03 ◼   ► But that, so this is important stuff and we'll get it.

00:43:08 ◼   ► - It's a separate thing too from,

00:43:09 ◼   ► there was also an account recovery thing.

00:43:12 ◼   ► What was it, like trusted contacts that is in iOS 15

00:43:15 ◼   ► where you can designate other people

00:43:17 ◼   ► if you lose your phone or something

00:43:19 ◼   ► to like help you get back into your account.

00:43:22 ◼   ► But it's sort of a similar idea,

00:43:23 ◼   ► but like, you know, different use case.

00:43:26 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:43:27 ◼   ► IDs in Wallet, the idea.

00:43:29 ◼   ► This is our please tap the NFC reader

00:43:32 ◼   ► with your driver's license, which eight states,

00:43:36 ◼   ► and I think they said the TSA originally,

00:43:37 ◼   ► like also has signed onto this,

00:43:40 ◼   ► but this sounds like it's not,

00:43:41 ◼   ► it's because you've got all these big bureaucracies

00:43:44 ◼   ► and you've got all these security questions and all that,

00:43:46 ◼   ► that sounds like a 2022.

00:43:47 ◼   ► We're gonna put it in the 2022 hopper with the headset

00:43:51 ◼   ► and the, what else is in the hopper?

00:43:54 ◼   ► The Mac Pro, it's in there.

00:43:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, even then, I think it's gonna take a while

00:43:58 ◼   ► before it actually gets out there.

00:43:59 ◼   ► I mean, this is dealing with large institutions,

00:44:02 ◼   ► and we saw this a little bit with Apple Pay.

00:44:03 ◼   ► Like, you know, it takes a while

00:44:05 ◼   ► to get everybody to sign on.

00:44:07 ◼   ► It requires like some time to get critical mass

00:44:09 ◼   ► and start going, and it's even worse

00:44:11 ◼   ► when you're dealing with like government bureaucracies.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Right? So I will tell you where we're gonna see this first.

00:44:16 ◼   ► I've recently discovered that at some airports,

00:44:19 ◼   ► it's not all airports, but at some airports,

00:44:22 ◼   ► I no longer need to present at the security desk

00:44:25 ◼   ► a boarding pass because the boarding pass

00:44:28 ◼   ► is linked to my ID.

00:44:30 ◼   ► So they look at my, they scan my ID and the ID says,

00:44:33 ◼   ► "Yes, Jason has a flight at this airport on this day,

00:44:36 ◼   ► let him through."

00:44:38 ◼   ► And convenient until of course it's inconsistent

00:44:41 ◼   ► so it's not convenient

00:44:42 ◼   ► 'cause then you go to the next desk at the next airport

00:44:45 ◼   ► and they're like, "I also need your boarding passer."

00:44:47 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Oh, all right, okay,

00:44:49 ◼   ► you don't have the new stuff."

00:44:50 ◼   ► But this is my prediction is,

00:44:52 ◼   ► we're gonna see another round of that.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Maybe even with those kiosks that already are like that,

00:44:57 ◼   ► where there will be like an NFC tap thing.

00:45:00 ◼   ► And you'll basically,

00:45:01 ◼   ► 'cause they said the TSA is on board with this,

00:45:03 ◼   ► I think it's all related.

00:45:04 ◼   ► They're gonna, you're gonna tap with your ID

00:45:07 ◼   ► and it's going to correlate that with your ticket

00:45:09 ◼   ► and they're gonna look at you

00:45:10 ◼   ► and have you take your mask down so they can see your face.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And then you're gonna be ushered through.

00:45:14 ◼   ► Like, it's like, that's all they need.

00:45:15 ◼   ► I think that will happen probably the soonest of everything

00:45:19 ◼   ► because it's the one bureaucracy

00:45:20 ◼   ► that needs to start rolling it out.

00:45:22 ◼   ► And somebody will report,

00:45:23 ◼   ► "Oh, in this random airport,

00:45:25 ◼   ► I actually got to use this feature for the first time.

00:45:28 ◼   ► But in terms of it being more than that,

00:45:31 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a long time.

00:45:33 ◼   ► - And I'll point to, you know,

00:45:34 ◼   ► I wrote a little bit on Six Colors

00:45:36 ◼   ► about the digital vaccine cards.

00:45:38 ◼   ► And I feel like this sort of links in with that

00:45:41 ◼   ► to a certain extent in reminding us

00:45:42 ◼   ► how fractured the US setup is in terms of,

00:45:45 ◼   ► it's very unequal in terms of where you can get these things.

00:45:48 ◼   ► So I think it will be interesting to see this roll out.

00:45:50 ◼   ► I've also seen that with the ID where they'll just scan that.

00:45:53 ◼   ► And it reminds me a little bit actually of traveling

00:45:55 ◼   ► in some places in Europe too,

00:45:57 ◼   ► where even to get on the plane sometimes,

00:46:00 ◼   ► I feel like you have to scan your passport

00:46:02 ◼   ► or something like that,

00:46:03 ◼   ► like it takes a barcode or something.

00:46:05 ◼   ► So I think this is an interesting feature

00:46:08 ◼   ► and obviously they talked it up a lot.

00:46:09 ◼   ► They posted a thing a couple months ago now,

00:46:12 ◼   ► going through essentially like,

00:46:13 ◼   ► not in details the spec,

00:46:15 ◼   ► but like here's how it's gonna work.

00:46:17 ◼   ► But yeah, having all or a preponderance of states sign on

00:46:21 ◼   ► is gonna take some time.

00:46:21 ◼   ► So, you know, if you're in one of those eight lucky states so far,

00:46:25 ◼   ► you'll be an early adopter potentially.

00:46:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, congratulations. - Congrats, I guess, yeah.

00:46:32 ◼   ► - Swift Playground's new version that lets you develop things

00:46:36 ◼   ► in Swift Playground and submit them to the app store later in 2021.

00:46:41 ◼   ► I forgot this was happening.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Really, until I wrote this piece, I was like, "Oh, wait.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Yeah, there was, like, a new version."

00:46:48 ◼   ► And that was a big deal because you can write apps on the iPad

00:46:51 ◼   ► before the iPad, there were rumors going around last week

00:46:56 ◼   ► that some developers were essentially getting invited

00:46:58 ◼   ► by Apple to like check it out in beta.

00:47:00 ◼   ► - Private beta, yeah.

00:47:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, which suggests to me that it's probably

00:47:05 ◼   ► pretty far along, so maybe they'll make that 2021 date,

00:47:08 ◼   ► maybe that shows up when the 15.2 and 12.1

00:47:12 ◼   ► get released, possibly.

00:47:13 ◼   ► I thought it was interesting that that didn't,

00:47:17 ◼   ► people talked about it so much

00:47:18 ◼   ► and it didn't really materialize.

00:47:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm surprised that they didn't make it,

00:47:22 ◼   ► and maybe they will at some point,

00:47:23 ◼   ► a public beta or a test flight

00:47:26 ◼   ► that any developer can sign up for,

00:47:28 ◼   ► and even do a thing where it's like,

00:47:30 ◼   ► well, you can sign up for it now,

00:47:31 ◼   ► but you can't submit yet, right?

00:47:33 ◼   ► Or you can only submit into test flight,

00:47:35 ◼   ► and it's not gonna go in the store

00:47:36 ◼   ► and do that kind of prolonged testing.

00:47:38 ◼   ► 'Cause it seems unlikely

00:47:39 ◼   ► that they would do a closed private beta

00:47:41 ◼   ► and then just roll out and say,

00:47:42 ◼   ► go to town, people, put this thing on the App Store.

00:47:45 ◼   ► Like, I don't think,

00:47:46 ◼   ► I think there've gotta be a bunch of steps in between.

00:47:49 ◼   ► a lot of these, and then one we're gonna talk about next.

00:47:52 ◼   ► It's sort of like, it's not that it isn't coming,

00:47:54 ◼   ► it's that I'm not sure it's at step two,

00:47:57 ◼   ► and it needs to get through three more steps to get out.

00:48:00 ◼   ► And so it's gonna be a while.

00:48:02 ◼   ► - Along with that, the Xcode Cloud,

00:48:05 ◼   ► which they talked about,

00:48:06 ◼   ► where you can build stuff in the cloud, that has been--

00:48:09 ◼   ► - They announced it as a beta,

00:48:11 ◼   ► so it was announced as a beta,

00:48:13 ◼   ► and that they're gonna ship it next spring or something.

00:48:15 ◼   ► - And it's a paid service too, right?

00:48:16 ◼   ► I think you have to pay for that, so that'll be interesting.

00:48:18 ◼   ► free as a beta, but then you have to pay, I think is how that is going to work.

00:48:21 ◼   ► But yeah. So a big one is universal control, which in some ways I think a lot

00:48:25 ◼   ► of us thought was one of the coolest things that they announced. And this is

00:48:28 ◼   ► the, for people who don't know, it's the technology that is kind of stitching a

00:48:32 ◼   ► bunch of stuff that Apple has already built. It's like that, you know, seeing

00:48:36 ◼   ► them lay the groundwork because it's sort of like airdrop and it's sort of

00:48:40 ◼   ► like screen sharing and it's sort of like sidecar. But what it is is you can

00:48:45 ◼   ► put multiple Macs or Macs and iPads together

00:48:49 ◼   ► and use one set of controls and move your pointer

00:48:53 ◼   ► and use your keyboard, but move your pointer

00:48:55 ◼   ► from one device to another to another across their screens.

00:48:59 ◼   ► And it's like you're using one surface of device,

00:49:04 ◼   ► but it's actually the individual devices.

00:49:06 ◼   ► So the simple example is I've got my iMac here.

00:49:09 ◼   ► I put my iPad Pro next to my iMac.

00:49:12 ◼   ► And when I move my track pad, the cursor or pointer,

00:49:15 ◼   ► whatever you wanna call it, goes off of the iMac screen

00:49:19 ◼   ► and pops over into the iPad, but it's not sidecar.

00:49:23 ◼   ► I'm using the iPad and its software and its apps.

00:49:27 ◼   ► So what I'm really doing is sort of having my keyboard

00:49:30 ◼   ► and track pad control the pointer on the iPad.

00:49:34 ◼   ► - It's like a KVM switch almost.

00:49:35 ◼   ► - Right, but you can also drag and drop things,

00:49:37 ◼   ► which is the AirDrop part of it, right?

00:49:40 ◼   ► And the clipboard is shared across them.

00:49:42 ◼   ► But it's the idea that you can,

00:49:43 ◼   ► As somebody who's used my iPad Pro with Sidecar,

00:49:47 ◼   ► it just makes it a Mac monitor, right?

00:49:49 ◼   ► And I always think to myself, well, if I'm gonna do this,

00:49:51 ◼   ► I should just use the iPad apps because I like the iPad apps.

00:49:55 ◼   ► Why am I putting a Slack window that's got some lag

00:49:59 ◼   ► over there when I can just run Slack on the iPad?

00:50:02 ◼   ► And this is the answer to that, which is, yes,

00:50:04 ◼   ► you could just run Slack over there.

00:50:05 ◼   ► And when you move your mouse over there

00:50:07 ◼   ► or you start typing over there,

00:50:09 ◼   ► it's the same keyboard you're using for your Mac.

00:50:12 ◼   ► You don't have to switch to some other device.

00:50:13 ◼   ► Anyway, very cool feature.

00:50:16 ◼   ► And this is what I was saying before about the steps is,

00:50:19 ◼   ► hasn't ever been even in a beta

00:50:23 ◼   ► and yet is supposed to come later this fall,

00:50:25 ◼   ► which I'll remind you is two weeks away is the end of fall.

00:50:28 ◼   ► - I think we say it's not happening, at least in the fall.

00:50:31 ◼   ► It basically seems impossible.

00:50:32 ◼   ► - It is search for universal control

00:50:35 ◼   ► in the system preferences app,

00:50:36 ◼   ► and it will open the displays control panel.

00:50:38 ◼   ► And depending on if you click the right way,

00:50:41 ◼   ► it will actually bring up, I just did it,

00:50:43 ◼   ► allow your cursor and keyboard to move

00:50:45 ◼   ► between any nearby Mac or iPad.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Beta, which the beta clearly means

00:50:49 ◼   ► they're gonna ship this as a beta when it ships.

00:50:52 ◼   ► But when you click the checkbox,

00:50:53 ◼   ► it gets a little dark while you're clicking

00:50:55 ◼   ► and then you let go and it doesn't check the box.

00:50:57 ◼   ► And then they're separately pushed through the edge

00:50:59 ◼   ► of a display to connect a nearby Mac or iPad

00:51:01 ◼   ► and that's grayed out.

00:51:02 ◼   ► So it is in some recent betas as a setting you can't choose.

00:51:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, I love that.

00:51:09 ◼   ► I found that by accident one day too,

00:51:10 ◼   ► 'cause I could type universal control,

00:51:12 ◼   ► it would take it to displays.

00:51:13 ◼   ► I accidentally put my screen to sleep at one point,

00:51:15 ◼   ► and then I woke it up, and when I woke it up immediately,

00:51:18 ◼   ► the dialog box was there suddenly,

00:51:20 ◼   ► and I was like, "What, there's not even a button for it!

00:51:21 ◼   ► "Where did that come from?"

00:51:22 ◼   ► Why doesn't it click?

00:51:23 ◼   ► Why doesn't it check? - Yeah, it's so annoying.

00:51:25 ◼   ► And there was, I guess, a beta where you could kind of,

00:51:27 ◼   ► there was like a terminal, hackery stuff you could do

00:51:29 ◼   ► to sort of enable it, but it didn't work very well,

00:51:32 ◼   ► and yeah, I mean, it's--

00:51:33 ◼   ► - Well, somebody put out a thing where it was like,

00:51:36 ◼   ► there was like a secret preference

00:51:37 ◼   ► that's like a serial number for,

00:51:39 ◼   ► It's basically, it's an Apple internal something

00:51:41 ◼   ► that you can pop somewhere

00:51:43 ◼   ► and then it turns on the feature, but like, no, don't do that.

00:51:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I mean, it's clearly, this was a lot harder, I think,

00:51:51 ◼   ► than the, like the demo promised

00:51:53 ◼   ► a high degree of difficulty, right?

00:51:55 ◼   ► Like the essentially, this will be seamless.

00:51:57 ◼   ► And we know that Apple loves to do seamless stuff like this

00:52:00 ◼   ► and say, it just works, right?

00:52:01 ◼   ► That's the old catch phrase.

00:52:02 ◼   ► - Ah, yes.

00:52:03 ◼   ► - Clearly it was not just working, I think.

00:52:06 ◼   ► - One of the things that I mentioned in my Macworld piece

00:52:08 ◼   ► is that they chose to set the bar very high for themselves.

00:52:11 ◼   ► They didn't, they could have,

00:52:13 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know if it would have shipped yet

00:52:15 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know where they're having issues,

00:52:17 ◼   ► but it struck me at the time and it still strikes me

00:52:20 ◼   ► that they could have made this one of those features

00:52:22 ◼   ► that's kind of like sidecar,

00:52:23 ◼   ► where you have to go like,

00:52:24 ◼   ► all right, I'm gonna connect to another device

00:52:27 ◼   ► and this device,

00:52:29 ◼   ► and then I'm gonna place it to the right of my screen

00:52:32 ◼   ► and now it works.

00:52:34 ◼   ► And they said, no, no, no,

00:52:36 ◼   ► you're gonna have your device in proximity

00:52:38 ◼   ► and because of all of our AirDrop and related stuff,

00:52:43 ◼   ► all that proximity based stuff,

00:52:45 ◼   ► we're gonna know it's nearby.

00:52:47 ◼   ► And then you're gonna push the cursor

00:52:49 ◼   ► off of one of the sides of your Mac screen.

00:52:51 ◼   ► And from that, we're going to infer the location

00:52:54 ◼   ► of that device and do all the connection behind the scenes

00:52:58 ◼   ► and it will seamlessly pop with a little animation

00:53:01 ◼   ► out of the shell of your Mac and whoop,

00:53:03 ◼   ► appear over on the iPad.

00:53:05 ◼   ► It's like, that's awesome.

00:53:06 ◼   ► That is Apple kind of at its best of like,

00:53:09 ◼   ► we can figure this out.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Computers can do this.

00:53:11 ◼   ► We don't need to ask you.

00:53:12 ◼   ► We don't need to throw up any Chrome

00:53:14 ◼   ► that configures any of this stuff.

00:53:15 ◼   ► And that's fine, but that's harder.

00:53:18 ◼   ► - Hard, yeah, yeah.

00:53:20 ◼   ► The degree of difficulty, very high.

00:53:22 ◼   ► Like you said, they set the bar

00:53:24 ◼   ► extremely high for themselves.

00:53:26 ◼   ► I think this probably, as we said,

00:53:28 ◼   ► this probably ended up being much trickier to implement

00:53:31 ◼   ► or to get right than they initially thought.

00:53:35 ◼   ► And so I'm not shocked that they haven't come out

00:53:38 ◼   ► and said, "By the way, it won't make it."

00:53:39 ◼   ► But they don't do that.

00:53:40 ◼   ► They're not gonna come out and say,

00:53:41 ◼   ► "Oh, it's not gonna make it by the end of fall."

00:53:45 ◼   ► But yeah, you're not probably gonna see it.

00:53:47 ◼   ► I have to believe maybe the next round of betas,

00:53:50 ◼   ► because otherwise, when are you gonna ship it?

00:53:52 ◼   ► - This is it.

00:53:52 ◼   ► My prediction is gonna be

00:53:55 ◼   ► that they're gonna ship 12.1 and 15.2 of iOS,

00:54:00 ◼   ► and they're gonna then, the next day,

00:54:02 ◼   ► basically drop the next round of developer betas and it'll be on in there. That's my

00:54:07 ◼   ► prediction is that they don't want to mess up the current betas because they're about

00:54:13 ◼   ► to ship them. But then they will and they'll be able to say, you know, it's now in beta

00:54:19 ◼   ► and will be released publicly and it's like, okay, well, we got it out by the end of the

00:54:23 ◼   ► fall and that we put it in a public beta or a developer beta by the end of the fall. And

00:54:28 ◼   ► again, there's no cop that's going to pull them over by the side of the road if they

00:54:32 ◼   ► don't ship it by the solstice, right? It's not gonna happen. It's just us writing about

00:54:37 ◼   ► it. But still, it would be nice to see it. Yeah, oh yeah. Oh yeah. The Apple, uh, it's

00:54:42 ◼   ► uh, it's Feature Cops. Feature Cops coming this fall on Apple TV+. Excuse me, Mr. Cook,

00:54:47 ◼   ► I'm gonna need to see your status of universal control. I hope you've got a legacy contact

00:54:53 ◼   ► - I feel that.

00:54:54 ◼   ► - I got some legacy notes.

00:54:58 ◼   ► - Loves those.

00:55:00 ◼   ► - Oh, he does.

00:55:00 ◼   ► He loves them.

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00:56:42 ◼   ► Now, Dan, I mentioned earlier that you last appeared

00:56:47 ◼   ► this show in 2016. Episode 85. What a world it was back in 2016. A classic episode about

00:56:57 ◼   ► uh, Kindles and Amazon Echoes called Talk to the Cylinder, episode 85, April 2016. And

00:57:03 ◼   ► I thought maybe we would revisit that a little bit. I wanted to start because Myke doesn't,

00:57:08 ◼   ► again, Myke doesn't read books and he doesn't want to talk about e-readers. I wanted to

00:57:11 ◼   ► start by saying that I reviewed a load of e-readers, um, recently on Six Colors. Uh,

00:57:17 ◼   ► you to John Gruber for linking to my review, which, you know, sometimes the

00:57:20 ◼   ► Daring Fireball links I expect. Other times I am taken completely by surprise,

00:57:25 ◼   ► and I was taking-- I saw that on Daring Fireball, and I'm like, "Really? Okay, great! I mean, it's

00:57:29 ◼   ► great!" And there aren't that many people-- here's another fact-- there aren't that

00:57:34 ◼   ► many people who review e-readers who care enough about it and are in a

00:57:38 ◼   ► position where they've got a platform where they can review e-readers. The

00:57:41 ◼   ► Verge does, and there are a few places that do, but not a lot. And I do care

00:57:45 ◼   ► about it. So I called up, I bought a Kindle because Amazon, I can never,

00:57:50 ◼   ► despite their sponsorship of this and the fact that we know high-ranking

00:57:54 ◼   ► Amazon executives now, executive anyway, I can't get them to send me review units

00:57:59 ◼   ► of Kindles so I just have to buy them or in the case of some of them buy them

00:58:02 ◼   ► and then return them. Thanks Amazon. Koppo actually sent me their new e-readers to

00:58:09 ◼   ► review which was really great of them. I bought one but they sent me the rest and

00:58:13 ◼   ► that was awesome because I wasn't gonna buy them. I was gonna buy like

00:58:16 ◼   ► eight e-readers. And so you can read that review on six colors but basically the

00:58:22 ◼   ► Kindle Paperwhite is probably the best choice for most people at this point. I

00:58:29 ◼   ► have switched over to the Kobo platform for a bunch of reasons. I think

00:58:33 ◼   ► it has better typography, I think the software is better, it's got a store just

00:58:37 ◼   ► like Amazon does. You can use the Mac app Calibre with a DDRM plugin to convert your

00:58:45 ◼   ► Amazon books so that they play on the Kobo. It's, I guess, technically not legal, but

00:58:50 ◼   ► I think if you're just play-shifting your own books that you bought, I'm okay with it.

00:58:54 ◼   ► You should be okay with it. And the Kobo has some other features, most notably, I think,

00:59:02 ◼   ► the fact that the Kobo Libra has physical page turn buttons,

00:59:07 ◼   ► which I really like, and Amazon thinks is a premium feature.

00:59:10 ◼   ► Buttons to turn the page are a premium feature

00:59:14 ◼   ► that only should exist on the highest end,

00:59:16 ◼   ► the Oasis, the highest end Kindle.

00:59:18 ◼   ► - The ghost of Steve Jobs has gotten to the-

00:59:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, war on buttons, Amazon.

00:59:22 ◼   ► Well, I guess this would be,

00:59:24 ◼   ► if Steve Jobs had lived a little longer,

00:59:25 ◼   ► perhaps he would have realized

00:59:27 ◼   ► that buttons were a premium opportunity.

00:59:29 ◼   ► - People will pay.

00:59:30 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:59:30 ◼   ► They'll pay for buttons.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Let those-

00:59:32 ◼   ► pay for buttons if they want to. But anyway, so I love the Cobra Libre 2

00:59:37 ◼   ► because it is priced like $100 less than the Kindle Oasis and has buttons. It's

00:59:43 ◼   ► not as nice as the Kindle Oasis. The screen isn't flush, so it's sort of

00:59:47 ◼   ► recessed a little bit around the bezel, which the Oasis isn't. The Oasis has a

00:59:51 ◼   ► metal back. It's a nicer piece of hardware, but it's also $100 more

00:59:55 ◼   ► expensive. So I think if you're somebody who cares about the

00:59:59 ◼   ► convenience of not having to tap on the screen. The problem I have with tapping

01:00:03 ◼   ► on a screen and not having a physical page turn button is, first off, you just

01:00:06 ◼   ► hold them in your e-reader and then you've got to reposition your hand every

01:00:09 ◼   ► time you turn the page in order to tap on it. Also, you can do mistapping, whereas

01:00:14 ◼   ► with the Kobo, you can turn off tap to turn the page, so you can only swipe to

01:00:19 ◼   ► turn a page, and it's delightful to not have mistaken taps turn the page of the

01:00:24 ◼   ► book you're reading. And you just keep clicking that button. It's such a

01:00:27 ◼   ► naturally you leave your thumb that you're holding the e-reader over the

01:00:31 ◼   ► button and then every time it's time to turn the page you just go boop and it's

01:00:35 ◼   ► very civilized and that's why I prefer the Kobo Libra. I have a Libra as well I

01:00:39 ◼   ► bought after I think your first review the first version of it a while back and

01:00:44 ◼   ► I like it a lot I've been using it more and more as my default reader I do have

01:00:47 ◼   ► a Kindle still that I I use and sometimes I jump back and forth because

01:00:51 ◼   ► it just depends where I where I have a book I'm living that Captain Picard

01:00:54 ◼   ► Multi-e reader tablet lifestyle. I love it. It's weird right because it's like now I used to have a stack of books on my nightstand

01:01:00 ◼   ► Little weird, but I did just buy for my wife's birthday, which is today

01:01:06 ◼   ► I bought her a new paper white because her old Kindle finally bit dust

01:01:10 ◼   ► And I ended up for a weird confluence of events

01:01:14 ◼   ► I ended up using it this past weekend while we were traveling and she was reading something on my Kindle because we only available on

01:01:19 ◼   ► my Kindle

01:01:20 ◼   ► So that was very fun story where I bought her a new e-reader and then I used it all week

01:01:24 ◼   ► I mean, so how did you like the paperweight because it's it's solid. It's it's the the screen is really nice

01:01:29 ◼   ► The flush screen on it is yes. I have a so my paperweight is a little older, but it has the flush screen

01:01:34 ◼   ► But this one has a much larger screen on it surprised me. So they shrunk the bezels a lot

01:01:38 ◼   ► I was using it without a case. I like it a lot. It looks great

01:01:42 ◼   ► I think the typography has improved even since the one I have which is only a few years old

01:01:47 ◼   ► Yeah, the process the processor is better too. So it's faster in it and the screen looks better. Yeah

01:01:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I think my biggest complaints about it are I do think the ergonomics of it are annoying

01:01:56 ◼   ► So narrow that it's actually kind of hard to hold

01:01:59 ◼   ► I have to hold at the bottom or after I put my entire hand like around the back. Yep, which is uncomfortable

01:02:04 ◼   ► I can do it, but it's uncomfortable or you got to hand it, which is yeah

01:02:08 ◼   ► Or you had to hand it and I'm reading it like in bed and I'm constantly if you hold it by the bottom

01:02:12 ◼   ► You're always worried like it's gonna tip out

01:02:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I

01:02:16 ◼   ► So that frustrates me a little bit and I actually will say and maybe this is an I don't know if this is a hot take

01:02:20 ◼   ► But like I think the Kindle

01:02:22 ◼   ► Software UX has gotten worse like I was trying to figure out how to turn some features off and being like where are like

01:02:28 ◼   ► there's the stupid feature that comes like enabled by default where it's like

01:02:32 ◼   ► Like social like the highlights where it highlights things other people have highlighted right it tells you like a hundred people have highlighted this phrase

01:02:39 ◼   ► And I hate it

01:02:40 ◼   ► I hate it

01:02:41 ◼   ► and I could not I was like going through all the preferences like where does this turn off and it turned out to be in

01:02:46 ◼   ► like a totally separate section of the,

01:02:48 ◼   ► like you could only view it in the preferences

01:02:50 ◼   ► when you were in a book

01:02:51 ◼   ► and then look at the viewing preferences

01:02:52 ◼   ► like while you're in the book.

01:02:54 ◼   ► And I was like, this is so dumb.

01:02:55 ◼   ► So I was like, this, this frustrates me.

01:02:58 ◼   ► I think that those, you know,

01:02:59 ◼   ► just their setup has gotten so complex

01:03:02 ◼   ► because they're trying to leverage all these like

01:03:05 ◼   ► internet and social aspects

01:03:07 ◼   ► that I think it's just a bit of a mess.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Whereas I think that Kobo actually has a much leaner,

01:03:12 ◼   ► much cleaner UI in a lot of places.

01:03:14 ◼   ► So I guess this is part of the risk of becoming

01:03:17 ◼   ► the dominant device maker in a market

01:03:21 ◼   ► is that you don't feel as pressed to improve things

01:03:25 ◼   ► constantly, at least from a software perspective.

01:03:28 ◼   ► But it is a fine piece of hardware.

01:03:30 ◼   ► I enjoyed reading on it.

01:03:32 ◼   ► But I do think, having gotten used to the Kobo,

01:03:35 ◼   ► I feel a little bit more spoiled when I have

01:03:38 ◼   ► to go back to my Kindle.

01:03:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's exactly it.

01:03:41 ◼   ► The Paperweight, one of the challenges

01:03:43 ◼   ► reviewing products, and you know this too, is you've got to try to look beyond

01:03:47 ◼   ► yourself. And bad reviews often come from people who are just reviewing it for

01:03:52 ◼   ► what they're interested in. And like, I am trying to look beyond myself

01:03:57 ◼   ► and say that I still think the Paperwhite, because of the—there's the

01:04:01 ◼   ► cheap Kindle, I don't think that's good enough. I think the Paperwhite is a good

01:04:04 ◼   ► Kindle to buy. It is cheaper than the Libra, it's got some very nice

01:04:11 ◼   ► features and so because the bezels are so narrow and because I like page turn

01:04:15 ◼   ► buttons I am NOT gonna use it. I bought it and I used it and then I returned it

01:04:22 ◼   ► I'm like no I'm not gonna use it but I still think I understand that a lot of

01:04:26 ◼   ► people just don't care about the page turn thing as much as I do I don't

01:04:29 ◼   ► really understand it because I think ergonomically having a button to turn

01:04:32 ◼   ► the page is so much better so much easier and and then you can turn off the

01:04:37 ◼   ► taps which is even better because then there's so many mistakes. You get a

01:04:41 ◼   ► little speck of dust on the screen and you're like "I can't touch the screen

01:04:44 ◼   ► the dust must remain because I'll churn the page" and then right so like but

01:04:49 ◼   ► but yeah if you're just somebody who's very casual e-reader user or maybe you

01:04:53 ◼   ► only read some of the time or you read at the beach or whatever like that

01:04:57 ◼   ► Paperwhite, the screen is good, the hardware is solid, it's

01:05:00 ◼   ► waterproof, like it is the definitive e-reader for people who don't

01:05:06 ◼   ► who don't care so much.

01:05:08 ◼   ► They're not precious about their e-readers.

01:05:10 ◼   ► They just want Kindle to throw in a bag.

01:05:13 ◼   ► And it's got everything that Amazon has.

01:05:15 ◼   ► They've got their Unlimited and they've got,

01:05:17 ◼   ► if you're Prime, there's some books that you get

01:05:18 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff is wrapped

01:05:20 ◼   ► into the Kindle platform that make that a good product.

01:05:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's got the new,

01:05:25 ◼   ► it's got the ambient backlight too thing

01:05:26 ◼   ► where it changes warmth depending on time of day

01:05:29 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:05:30 ◼   ► So, I mean, like that's cool that Kobo has that as well.

01:05:32 ◼   ► I actually think the Kobo again implemented a little better,

01:05:34 ◼   ► but I'm glad that it made its way to the Paperwhite

01:05:37 ◼   ► because it is a nice feature.

01:05:38 ◼   ► - You know, my favorite feature of Kobo,

01:05:40 ◼   ► so I like Kobo, like I said, I think the software is better.

01:05:43 ◼   ► I think, yes, the new Amazon software update hit me

01:05:46 ◼   ► right after I got that Paperwhite,

01:05:47 ◼   ► it opened up and it looked perfectly normal.

01:05:49 ◼   ► And then it said, "I am updating my software."

01:05:52 ◼   ► And then it rebooted and I'm like, "What happened?"

01:05:54 ◼   ► - What are, who are you?

01:05:55 ◼   ► How did you get in here?

01:05:56 ◼   ► - It actually, its home screen looks more

01:05:58 ◼   ► like the Kobo home screen, which I thought was really funny.

01:06:01 ◼   ► And the settings are all over the place.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Kobo software, I do think is better.

01:06:04 ◼   ► It's not perfect, but I think it's better.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Its typography is way better.

01:06:09 ◼   ► When people ask me why I choose Kobo,

01:06:12 ◼   ► number one reason is the typography.

01:06:13 ◼   ► I think there's something about the way that Amazon's font-

01:06:16 ◼   ► - It looks really good. I don't know why.

01:06:18 ◼   ► - Font rendering, I don't know either.

01:06:20 ◼   ► Amazon's font rendering and its default fonts,

01:06:22 ◼   ► there's something wrong there.

01:06:24 ◼   ► - They used to look like a book.

01:06:26 ◼   ► - The Kobo, just the type is all crisper.

01:06:29 ◼   ► My go-to is Georgia, I think.

01:06:31 ◼   ► - Yes, yep. - I think it looks the best.

01:06:33 ◼   ► - I agree. - But it's so crisp and clear.

01:06:35 ◼   ► It's like I'm reading on paper in a way

01:06:37 ◼   ► that the Amazon fonts are blocky.

01:06:39 ◼   ► - I don't get it.

01:06:39 ◼   ► It's so strange.

01:06:40 ◼   ► - It's literally the same E Ink screen,

01:06:42 ◼   ► so I don't understand that.

01:06:43 ◼   ► - I don't know what they're doing.

01:06:44 ◼   ► - And my number two, by the way, is libraries.

01:06:46 ◼   ► And I wrote a whole piece at Six Colors

01:06:47 ◼   ► that I'll link to in the show notes that explains,

01:06:49 ◼   ► 'cause I hear, I say,

01:06:50 ◼   ► "Kobo's better at library books than Kindle is."

01:06:53 ◼   ► And I hear from all the people who own Kindle's going,

01:06:55 ◼   ► "What do you mean?

01:06:56 ◼   ► "It's fine."

01:06:57 ◼   ► And that's because I'm not saying that it doesn't do it.

01:07:00 ◼   ► I'm saying that Kobo is better at it.

01:07:02 ◼   ► with Kindle, you go to the Libby app on your iPhone and everybody who has a local library

01:07:06 ◼   ► get the Libby app. It's super good and I always want to extol its virtues. You log into your

01:07:13 ◼   ► local library, get a library card, they're free, go to your library. You might even be

01:07:16 ◼   ► able to sign up online and not even go to your library. You put that in there. They've

01:07:20 ◼   ► got a selection of audiobooks and ebooks that you just check out and use. Audiobooks, you

01:07:24 ◼   ► just play them on the Libby app, it's great. They're free because they're from the library.

01:07:28 ◼   ► What you do if you've got a Kindle is you go to Libby and you say, "Yes, I would like

01:07:32 ◼   ► this book," and then you tap "Send to Kindle," and it opens a web view of Amazon, and you

01:07:38 ◼   ► log in if you're not logged in, and you have to say, "Choose what Kindle you want to send

01:07:43 ◼   ► it to," and you press the button, and then it loads another page that says, "I sent it,"

01:07:46 ◼   ► and then you sync your Kindle, and it shows up.

01:07:48 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Kobo—so the company that does Libby is OverDrive.

01:07:53 ◼   ► OverDrive is the preeminent library system for ebooks and audiobooks in the US. OverDrive

01:08:01 ◼   ► used to be owned by Rakuten, the same company that owns Kobo, for five years. It's not anymore,

01:08:06 ◼   ► but it was for about five years. And as you might expect, they had pretty good integration.

01:08:11 ◼   ► They built in good integration. So on the Kobo itself, you can tap "view my OverDrive

01:08:17 ◼   ► holds or browse my library's collection of ebooks. If you do a search, you can search

01:08:23 ◼   ► the Kobo store or you can search OverDrive and find the books that are in your local

01:08:28 ◼   ► library that you might want to read. And even if you're searching the Kobo store, if you

01:08:31 ◼   ► find a book before you buy it, if you tap the little ellipsis button, it'll say "check

01:08:37 ◼   ► this book out on OverDrive" if it's available from the library instead of from buying it

01:08:42 ◼   ► from the Kobo store. Like, it's just nice. It's just nicer. It's not that Kindle doesn't

01:08:46 ◼   ► - You can do it well, it's just the Kobo does it nicer.

01:08:48 ◼   ► So those are the reasons that I have that

01:08:52 ◼   ► and the fact that that Libra hardware is so good.

01:08:55 ◼   ► - My Libra tip, by the way, which I really love

01:08:57 ◼   ► and I discovered either did not know about or had forgotten,

01:09:00 ◼   ► is adjusting the backlight price.

01:09:02 ◼   ► - That's it. - That was it?

01:09:04 ◼   ► - That's not what I was about to say.

01:09:04 ◼   ► - That's spiking up and down left?

01:09:05 ◼   ► I tried to do it on the Kindle.

01:09:07 ◼   ► I was just, oh, this backlight.

01:09:08 ◼   ► I was like, oh, come on.

01:09:09 ◼   ► - You put your finger down on the left side

01:09:13 ◼   ► of the screen on the Kobo

01:09:15 ◼   ► and then slide it upward, the brightness goes up.

01:09:19 ◼   ► - It's so good.

01:09:20 ◼   ► - It's got a brightness up down gesture

01:09:22 ◼   ► that I use all the time.

01:09:23 ◼   ► And yes, Dan, when I was testing out the Paperwhite,

01:09:26 ◼   ► I kept being like, why won't it do it?

01:09:28 ◼   ► - Although I would go to a menu

01:09:29 ◼   ► and you got to hit the little buttons.

01:09:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, I will flip it and say that these ink screens

01:09:34 ◼   ► also support dark mode, which is a really weird thing

01:09:37 ◼   ► where it puts, you know, it's what you expect.

01:09:40 ◼   ► It uses the, the screen is black and white,

01:09:42 ◼   ► but it makes the whole background black

01:09:44 ◼   ► and the type white.

01:09:46 ◼   ► Now, because it's a reflective screen

01:09:47 ◼   ► and there's backlighting, it's still kind of bright,

01:09:49 ◼   ► but it is a little bit dimmer

01:09:51 ◼   ► and the typography isn't as good, but it's okay.

01:09:54 ◼   ► And I will give Kindle credit here.

01:09:56 ◼   ► Kindle, if you tap on the setting icon

01:09:58 ◼   ► from while you're reading the book,

01:09:59 ◼   ► you can just tap dark mode.

01:10:02 ◼   ► And to do that on the Kobo, you've got to go like,

01:10:04 ◼   ► you've got to tap settings

01:10:06 ◼   ► and then you got to go to page two

01:10:08 ◼   ► and then you got to check the box

01:10:10 ◼   ► and it's just, it's more swipes and taps

01:10:11 ◼   ► to get where you need to go.

01:10:13 ◼   ► So advantage Kindle there, I guess,

01:10:14 ◼   ► but I mostly don't use dark mode

01:10:16 ◼   ► and that brightness shortcut is the best.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - It really is great.

01:10:21 ◼   ► It was a huge, huge thing for me

01:10:24 ◼   ► when I actually discovered,

01:10:25 ◼   ► why is my screen getting,

01:10:25 ◼   ► ooh, hey, this is useful.

01:10:27 ◼   ► - And by the way, I should say there's also a Kobo Sage,

01:10:30 ◼   ► which is a new, it's a bigger e-reader

01:10:33 ◼   ► and that one's got the flush screen.

01:10:35 ◼   ► Lauren is using that one.

01:10:36 ◼   ► It's really nice.

01:10:37 ◼   ► So it's more like a trade paperback size,

01:10:40 ◼   ► whereas the smaller ones are more like a paperback size,

01:10:42 ◼   ► a little bit, a big screen.

01:10:45 ◼   ► Lauren likes it 'cause she can make the type bigger

01:10:49 ◼   ► and not have to change the page every two sentences.

01:10:52 ◼   ► And it's really nice if you're looking for something bigger.

01:10:56 ◼   ► So I guess what I'm saying is don't default to Kindle,

01:10:58 ◼   ► look around a little bit.

01:10:59 ◼   ► The Kobo stuff is really good and it has some advantages,

01:11:03 ◼   ► especially if you want those page turn buttons

01:11:04 ◼   ► and don't wanna buy a Kindle Oasis to do it

01:11:07 ◼   ► 'cause it's $100 more.

01:11:08 ◼   ► And also Kobo, I'll point out just as a burn for Amazon,

01:11:12 ◼   ► The Kobo products just come without ads.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Whereas the Kindle products,

01:11:17 ◼   ► you have to pay extra to take the ads off.

01:11:19 ◼   ► - And to see your book cover on the front of the Kindle,

01:11:23 ◼   ► or which is...

01:11:25 ◼   ► - They did add that feature, which is nice.

01:11:27 ◼   ► - I know, it's great, but it took forever

01:11:30 ◼   ► and you have to pay for it.

01:11:31 ◼   ► So like that's, I know that's,

01:11:33 ◼   ► it's not a huge count in its favor.

01:11:35 ◼   ► - Ooh, while we're talking about books,

01:11:37 ◼   ► I think we need to have the obligatory

01:11:38 ◼   ► Dan is a novelist conversation.

01:11:41 ◼   ► You've got a book coming out next year.

01:11:42 ◼   ► You wanna tell people where they can order it

01:11:45 ◼   ► and what it's about? - Yeah, sure.

01:11:47 ◼   ► This is the "Nova Incident."

01:11:48 ◼   ► It's the latest installment in my "Galactic Cold War" series

01:11:52 ◼   ► which I've been writing for quite some time now.

01:11:55 ◼   ► It is book three or four, depending on how you count.

01:11:58 ◼   ► Do you wanna know why?

01:11:59 ◼   ► Go to my FAQ at my website.

01:12:00 ◼   ► It explains it.

01:12:01 ◼   ► It comes out in July of next year.

01:12:05 ◼   ► I'm very excited.

01:12:07 ◼   ► So it's the next installment.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Jason has read this book.

01:12:10 ◼   ► - I have. - Or an earlier version.

01:12:12 ◼   ► I'm actually working on my-- - I read a draft.

01:12:13 ◼   ► It may be very different now, I don't know.

01:12:15 ◼   ► - It's totally different.

01:12:16 ◼   ► There are rhinoceroses and unicorns.

01:12:18 ◼   ► - What? - No.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I actually am working through the manuscript notes

01:12:21 ◼   ► for my editor this week.

01:12:24 ◼   ► So I'm ready to get the wraps on that.

01:12:26 ◼   ► But it is, I think, kind of a fun thriller espionage story

01:12:31 ◼   ► that takes place on a sort of, on the planet

01:12:35 ◼   ► on which a lot of these ventures have not been set before,

01:12:37 ◼   ► but it's like the home of the Commonwealth.

01:12:40 ◼   ► Yeah, the Capitol.

01:12:41 ◼   ► It's got a, it's got like sort of a more thriller-y feel to it, I think.

01:12:44 ◼   ► That's how I'll describe it.

01:12:46 ◼   ► - All your books are kind of like spy thrillers, except in a sci-fi setting.

01:12:51 ◼   ► And so I feel like if you like both of those things, like I know you do,

01:12:55 ◼   ► that's your sweet spot, but I'd say if you like spy stuff or thriller stuff

01:13:00 ◼   ► and are turned off by sci-fi, you might want to give it a try,

01:13:05 ◼   ► because it's set, it is, you're mishmashing the genres a little bit,

01:13:09 ◼   ► but I think it's clear that these are,

01:13:11 ◼   ► and they're fun too, they're fun and funny.

01:13:13 ◼   ► It's not all just kind of bleak spies.

01:13:17 ◼   ► - I don't do bleak.

01:13:18 ◼   ► I don't do bleak. - You know the sad spies?

01:13:19 ◼   ► - It's not a sad spy story.

01:13:20 ◼   ► - Some of those le Carre spies, they're very sad.

01:13:23 ◼   ► - They're very tortured.

01:13:24 ◼   ► They're very tortured, yeah.

01:13:26 ◼   ► - Your characters are sometimes tortured,

01:13:29 ◼   ► but also sometimes they're wisecrackers

01:13:31 ◼   ► 'cause you can't help yourself.

01:13:32 ◼   ► - That's true.

01:13:33 ◼   ► It's a little bit more like,

01:13:34 ◼   ► I think my blurb on the cover,

01:13:35 ◼   ► which is from our pal Antony Johnson this time around,

01:13:38 ◼   ► says it's like mission impossible in space.

01:13:40 ◼   ► So that's a pretty good sum up of,

01:13:42 ◼   ► it's kind of what you're looking for.

01:13:44 ◼   ► But it's available for now for pre-order

01:13:46 ◼   ► in pretty much every place,

01:13:48 ◼   ► whether you want your stuff in ebook,

01:13:49 ◼   ► you know, you can get it at Amazon,

01:13:50 ◼   ► you can get it on Kobo,

01:13:52 ◼   ► you can get it at Barnes and Noble.

01:13:54 ◼   ► It's available in paperback from all those places,

01:13:56 ◼   ► as well as your local independent bookstore.

01:13:58 ◼   ► I'm sure we'll be happy to order it for you.

01:14:00 ◼   ► I always recommend checking out indiebound.org,

01:14:03 ◼   ► which lets you search for local bookstores near you.

01:14:06 ◼   ► And this time for the first time,

01:14:08 ◼   ► I am doing signed paperback copies

01:14:11 ◼   ► through my local bookstore, Porter Square Books.

01:14:14 ◼   ► There is a link on my website

01:14:16 ◼   ► for where you can pre-order one of those,

01:14:18 ◼   ► and I'll sign it, I'll even personalize it.

01:14:19 ◼   ► It's a thing you can put in.

01:14:20 ◼   ► And I happen to know that because Jason did this.

01:14:23 ◼   ► - I did it, yeah, I did it.

01:14:25 ◼   ► I put a personal engraving in there that you have to do,

01:14:28 ◼   ► and it says something like,

01:14:29 ◼   ► "For Jason, I owe it all to you."

01:14:31 ◼   ► - So, which I have to write, it's the law.

01:14:34 ◼   ► - It's the law now.

01:14:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I did this, I bought Joe Paznanski's book,

01:14:37 ◼   ► "The Baseball 100" and I bought it, I love this trend.

01:14:39 ◼   ► And I bought it from his Kansas City hometown

01:14:44 ◼   ► indie bookstore.

01:14:47 ◼   ► And he went to Kansas City, he lives in North Carolina now,

01:14:50 ◼   ► but he went back to Kansas City for an author event

01:14:53 ◼   ► for the release of the book.

01:14:54 ◼   ► And he went into the basement of the bookstore

01:14:56 ◼   ► and it was completely full of his book.

01:15:00 ◼   ► And they said, "You have to sign all these

01:15:01 ◼   ► and then scribe them."

01:15:02 ◼   ► And he said, "Oh my God."

01:15:03 ◼   ► They said, "And then tomorrow when you come back,

01:15:05 ◼   ► "there will be more because we couldn't fit them all in here."

01:15:09 ◼   ► Yeah, but I love it because it's authors

01:15:11 ◼   ► supporting their local indie bookstores

01:15:13 ◼   ► and you get something from it,

01:15:14 ◼   ► which is you pay for them to ship it to you,

01:15:16 ◼   ► but the author will personalize it.

01:15:18 ◼   ► And so I'm glad that you're doing that

01:15:20 ◼   ► with the Porter Square Bookstore.

01:15:23 ◼   ► I know when we talk about this

01:15:24 ◼   ► and we talked about eBooks just a minute ago,

01:15:27 ◼   ► people always ask like, "I wanna make Dan happy.

01:15:31 ◼   ► How do I make Dan the most amount of money?

01:15:34 ◼   ► And is there a difference?

01:15:36 ◼   ► Is your personal preference by a paper book

01:15:39 ◼   ► from an indie bookstore, or is it it doesn't matter, or what?

01:15:43 ◼   ► - So, you know, there's a lot of math

01:15:45 ◼   ► that goes into publishing contracts,

01:15:47 ◼   ► and I think the best thing for readers

01:15:49 ◼   ► is not to worry too much about it.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Buying the book is the most important thing.

01:15:53 ◼   ► It's the best way to show your support, honestly.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - Also, it's not fair that they put math

01:15:57 ◼   ► in publishing contracts, 'cause writers don't know math.

01:15:59 ◼   ► - I don't know.

01:16:01 ◼   ► Some of the numbers are larger than others.

01:16:02 ◼   ► It's very tricky.

01:16:04 ◼   ► But I mean, the short answer is,

01:16:06 ◼   ► they all help in different ways.

01:16:07 ◼   ► I think that there's a lot to be said for paper books,

01:16:10 ◼   ► even though the royalty rate on those tends to be lower,

01:16:12 ◼   ► and I'd be happy to have a long conversation.

01:16:15 ◼   ► If you're really interested, June Ann will do a,

01:16:17 ◼   ► I don't know, Jason and I will talk about this

01:16:18 ◼   ► somewhere else about books and publishing,

01:16:21 ◼   ► 'cause it's super fun.

01:16:23 ◼   ► But the short answer is that the sales really help.

01:16:25 ◼   ► And the most important thing is pre-ordering is great,

01:16:27 ◼   ► because it goes into first week sales,

01:16:29 ◼   ► and first week sales tend to be the largest number

01:16:30 ◼   ► sales right the same way a movie box office is biggest on opening weekend and

01:16:35 ◼   ► that is the kind of thing that registers interest for the publishers for that to

01:16:38 ◼   ► say oh look there's a lot of sales happening this opening you know release

01:16:43 ◼   ► day for this book maybe we should consider handing that guy another

01:16:47 ◼   ► publishing contract or something like that so that's the most important and

01:16:50 ◼   ► then after that I think it's a matter of your preference as a reader it's where

01:16:54 ◼   ► you like to read your books if you're an e-book reader yeah buy it on e-book if

01:16:57 ◼   ► you prefer a paperback or you want a signed copy do it yeah order one of

01:17:00 ◼   ► those. That's great. You want to order all of them? Yeah, that's fantastic. Order all

01:17:04 ◼   ► of them. Do it. I will say there is, even though it's not available for pre-order yet,

01:17:08 ◼   ► there should be an audiobook version. I don't know exactly when it's going to go for pre-order,

01:17:12 ◼   ► but I will be posting about it on my website when it does. So yeah, keep your eyes out

01:17:17 ◼   ► if you're looking for that. Alright. And one last thing. We talked about paperwhites and

01:17:22 ◼   ► kobos and things like that. Do you have a preference or do you go, are you all over

01:17:27 ◼   ► of the place in terms of reading books and paper,

01:17:28 ◼   ► reading books and ebook?

01:17:30 ◼   ► - I used to read a lot more books in paper.

01:17:33 ◼   ► It's cut down a lot, especially in the pandemic.

01:17:35 ◼   ► I think just the ability to get books quickly,

01:17:37 ◼   ► like the instant gratification aspect,

01:17:39 ◼   ► just got huge for me during the pandemic

01:17:41 ◼   ► and being able to say like, whether it's at my library

01:17:43 ◼   ► or just buying a book and ebook,

01:17:45 ◼   ► just being able to go and say, I got it,

01:17:47 ◼   ► I'm gonna start reading, really removed a lot of barriers.

01:17:50 ◼   ► I do like reading on paper and I do do it occasionally.

01:17:53 ◼   ► I think also the other part of it is just like

01:17:55 ◼   ► having recently moved, like realizing,

01:17:58 ◼   ► I have a lot of paper books and acquiring new ones

01:18:00 ◼   ► is probably a lower down on the priority list these days.

01:18:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's fair.

01:18:05 ◼   ► - Any house face.

01:18:06 ◼   ► - For the record, I know I talk about e-readers a lot

01:18:09 ◼   ► and that's because I don't read paper books.

01:18:12 ◼   ► I will occasionally, there'll be a book

01:18:14 ◼   ► that'll be at the library in paper

01:18:16 ◼   ► and it's not available as an ebook

01:18:18 ◼   ► or it's only available to purchase

01:18:19 ◼   ► and I will have my contact at the local library,

01:18:22 ◼   ► being my wife, bring it home for me.

01:18:23 ◼   ► But, and so I've read a couple library books and paper

01:18:26 ◼   ► in the last couple of years,

01:18:27 ◼   ► but basically I'm 99% on eBooks now.

01:18:31 ◼   ► It just, and because I got into the whole

01:18:35 ◼   ► overdrive library thing, that's actually been delightful

01:18:38 ◼   ► because there have been, occasionally there are these lists

01:18:41 ◼   ► of books, like there was NPR put together

01:18:44 ◼   ► a definitive sci-fi fantasy reading list of the last decade

01:18:49 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:18:50 ◼   ► And there were a handful of books on there

01:18:52 ◼   ► that I hadn't read that were at my local library.

01:18:55 ◼   ► And I added all those in,

01:18:56 ◼   ► and I will sometimes see other articles that list books,

01:18:58 ◼   ► and I'll put them in there.

01:18:59 ◼   ► And then it's this sort of delightful thing

01:19:01 ◼   ► where eventually that book will pop out,

01:19:04 ◼   ► my turn in line basically comes up,

01:19:06 ◼   ► and they'll say, "Here it is."

01:19:08 ◼   ► And that's actually been really great

01:19:10 ◼   ► 'cause there's this sort of random,

01:19:13 ◼   ► it's like a playlist on shuffle.

01:19:15 ◼   ► - Conveyor belt of books.

01:19:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, of random books that will come in an order,

01:19:18 ◼   ► like just a totally random order.

01:19:20 ◼   ► Books that I said that I was interested in,

01:19:22 ◼   ► but I don't remember anything about them

01:19:24 ◼   ► 'cause I just read an article about them

01:19:26 ◼   ► and I put them on the list

01:19:27 ◼   ► and then they come based on who's in the line

01:19:29 ◼   ► and when it's your turn.

01:19:30 ◼   ► And so that has actually been delightful

01:19:32 ◼   ► because now in addition to the eBooks that I buy,

01:19:34 ◼   ► I've got all these library books

01:19:35 ◼   ► that just pop in and say, here I am.

01:19:37 ◼   ► And of course you can say, ask me again in three weeks

01:19:41 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:19:42 ◼   ► That's pretty easy to do, but I do love that.

01:19:44 ◼   ► So almost entirely.

01:19:45 ◼   ► - It is the weird thing with eBooks though

01:19:47 ◼   ► that like my wife and I were both reading books

01:19:49 ◼   ► on our eReaders this weekend

01:19:50 ◼   ► and they both ended up being very long books.

01:19:52 ◼   ► And I feel like that's the weirdest thing

01:19:54 ◼   ► because you can't tell anymore, right?

01:19:55 ◼   ► Like you got a paper book, it's like,

01:19:56 ◼   ► "Ooh, look, it's a thick paper book.

01:19:57 ◼   ► "This is gonna take me, I'm gonna like dive into this."

01:19:59 ◼   ► Now you're reading just a book on screen,

01:20:00 ◼   ► it's like, I have no idea.

01:20:02 ◼   ► - In terms of "Superiority of Kobo,"

01:20:04 ◼   ► that's another thing that I really like

01:20:05 ◼   ► is that they put the, what page number

01:20:07 ◼   ► of how many pages in the chapter at the top,

01:20:10 ◼   ► and at the bottom they tell you what the page number is

01:20:12 ◼   ► of the book overall, and there's a progress bar.

01:20:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, the progress bar is great.

01:20:17 ◼   ► - And that's the way you can tell

01:20:18 ◼   ► you're reading a long book is you read a few chapters

01:20:20 ◼   ► and then you look down at the progress score

01:20:21 ◼   ► and you're like, oh no, how big is this book?

01:20:24 ◼   ► But it will say, you know, this is page eight of 723

01:20:28 ◼   ► and you'll be like, yeah, okay, it's a long book.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Just lower the font size, make the font smaller

01:20:33 ◼   ► and the page count goes down.

01:20:34 ◼   ► - Please no, my eyes are not as good as these things.

01:20:35 ◼   ► - No, well, you can make it bigger

01:20:37 ◼   ► but then the page count goes up, that's how it works.

01:20:39 ◼   ► - Oh man.

01:20:39 ◼   ► - I know.

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01:22:02 ◼   ► Dan, you know what time it is?

01:22:04 ◼   ► - What time is it, Jason?

01:22:05 ◼   ► - It's time for Ask Upgrade.

01:22:09 ◼   ► (imitates laser)

01:22:10 ◼   ► Thank you, those are space spy lasers.

01:22:12 ◼   ► Thank you, I appreciate it. - That's right.

01:22:14 ◼   ► - Our first question comes from Michael,

01:22:15 ◼   ► who says, "Do you use an external trackpad with your Mac,

01:22:19 ◼   ► and if so, which one?

01:22:20 ◼   ► I still have the original Apple Magic Trackpad

01:22:22 ◼   ► with the AA batteries, but I think it's finally dying.

01:22:25 ◼   ► My keyboard is a Keychron K2, for what it's worth.

01:22:28 ◼   ► What trackpad should I get?"

01:22:31 ◼   ► - I have never used a trackpad that is not Apple's trackpad,

01:22:34 ◼   ► and I can't imagine ever using a trackpad.

01:22:36 ◼   ► Like, with the exception of,

01:22:37 ◼   ► I bought that Logitech keyboard for the iPad,

01:22:42 ◼   ► the one that had the trackpad built in last year

01:22:45 ◼   ► when the Magic Keyboard came out,

01:22:46 ◼   ► and the trackpad on that was not great.

01:22:47 ◼   ► - Not great. - Not great.

01:22:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I use a Magic Trackpad too on my Mac.

01:22:53 ◼   ► I had an original Magic Trackpad.

01:22:55 ◼   ► I love it.

01:22:56 ◼   ► I would never, honestly, never switch from that for anything.

01:22:58 ◼   ► - And I don't know if Michael is a laptop user,

01:23:00 ◼   ► but remember when Apple made that change

01:23:02 ◼   ► where they went to the sort of virtual trackpad

01:23:05 ◼   ► where it just vibrates when you click it,

01:23:06 ◼   ► and they got rid of the diving board effect

01:23:08 ◼   ► where you can't really click at the top of the trackpad

01:23:11 ◼   ► because it hinges from there,

01:23:12 ◼   ► so you have to click down lower on it?

01:23:14 ◼   ► Well, when they change that on the laptops,

01:23:17 ◼   ► they also, that's what the Magic Trackpad 2 is.

01:23:19 ◼   ► It's that vibrating, you can tap anywhere

01:23:22 ◼   ► on the whole thing and click and it works.

01:23:24 ◼   ► There's no diving board or anything like that.

01:23:27 ◼   ► And it's a really good product and that's what I use too.

01:23:29 ◼   ► I've also learned the hard way,

01:23:31 ◼   ► you mentioned that iPad case.

01:23:33 ◼   ► I have tried a lot of iPad cases with trackpads

01:23:35 ◼   ► in the last year because they added track pointer support

01:23:39 ◼   ► in iPad OS and so everybody's like,

01:23:41 ◼   ► "Hey, we can do our own trackpad keyboard combo now."

01:23:44 ◼   ► and I've used the one from Logitech

01:23:45 ◼   ► and I've used the one from Bridge.

01:23:46 ◼   ► And what I've learned is Apple puts a lot of secret sauce

01:23:51 ◼   ► in its trackpad stuff because two thirds of the Macs

01:23:56 ◼   ► they sell are laptops.

01:23:58 ◼   ► And they've been using trackpads for a very long time.

01:24:00 ◼   ► Apple has spent decades at this point perfecting

01:24:05 ◼   ► first trackpad gestures and then later multi-touch trackpads

01:24:10 ◼   ► and then later the one that they've got now

01:24:13 ◼   ► where it's kind of virtual, it's pressure detection

01:24:16 ◼   ► and all of that.

01:24:17 ◼   ► Like Apple has poured so much effort

01:24:20 ◼   ► into its trackpad software that's been invisible

01:24:25 ◼   ► because if you only ever use an Apple trackpad,

01:24:28 ◼   ► you just think it's what a trackpad is like.

01:24:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, if you ever use a PC trackpad

01:24:32 ◼   ► or bounce back and forth, it is wow.

01:24:35 ◼   ► My wife has a PC for work and I occasionally,

01:24:37 ◼   ► I want to like use it and show her something

01:24:39 ◼   ► and I'm like, I can't, it's just like,

01:24:42 ◼   ► Nothing works like I expected to.

01:24:43 ◼   ► - And so using those, the otherwise perfectly nice products

01:24:48 ◼   ► that the track pads are decent on the Kensington

01:24:51 ◼   ► and the bridge models, but they're not,

01:24:54 ◼   ► like I realized there were things that I do

01:24:56 ◼   ► with my fingers on the track pad

01:24:58 ◼   ► that I do on a non-Apple track pad

01:25:00 ◼   ► and the track pads get confused.

01:25:02 ◼   ► They don't do the right thing.

01:25:04 ◼   ► And I can like aggressively like move where my fingers are

01:25:07 ◼   ► or change how I do it because I've been trained

01:25:09 ◼   ► by Apple's track pad software too, right?

01:25:11 ◼   ► That's also been happening secretly in the background.

01:25:15 ◼   ► The short answer is you think it's invisible, but it's not.

01:25:19 ◼   ► If you use Apple products,

01:25:21 ◼   ► if you used an Apple Magic Trackpad,

01:25:22 ◼   ► if you use Apple laptops,

01:25:24 ◼   ► get a Magic Trackpad 2 for your desktop.

01:25:27 ◼   ► Not only is it great, I'm a big fan of trackpads,

01:25:29 ◼   ► and I love that all the gestures that I used on laptops

01:25:32 ◼   ► for all those years also work at my desk.

01:25:34 ◼   ► I also think -- and listener David, member David,

01:25:38 ◼   ► in the discard, points out that it's funny.

01:25:40 ◼   ► He says that Apple's mice are so bad

01:25:42 ◼   ► when Apple's trackpads are so good.

01:25:43 ◼   ► I think it goes to the fact that most Mac users,

01:25:46 ◼   ► and that includes people at Apple, are using laptops,

01:25:49 ◼   ► and they all have the Apple trackpad.

01:25:51 ◼   ► And then it is such an easy step to go from there

01:25:53 ◼   ► to using a trackpad on your desk,

01:25:55 ◼   ► which is what so many of us have done.

01:25:56 ◼   ► And I'm pretty sure that the people

01:25:59 ◼   ► who work on Apple's input devices

01:26:01 ◼   ► are probably more trackpad people than mice people.

01:26:04 ◼   ► And also that if you have to justify

01:26:06 ◼   ► working on one or the other,

01:26:08 ◼   ► Like the trackpad is built into two thirds

01:26:10 ◼   ► of the Macs you sell.

01:26:11 ◼   ► It has to be the priority.

01:26:14 ◼   ► - I just don't, it's been so long

01:26:15 ◼   ► since I've used a mouse regularly and everything.

01:26:17 ◼   ► I really, and then when I go back to them and find them

01:26:19 ◼   ► and like have to use one for some reason,

01:26:21 ◼   ► I always find them annoying.

01:26:22 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:26:23 ◼   ► I don't. - Yeah, I don't.

01:26:24 ◼   ► - I've moved on.

01:26:25 ◼   ► - I haven't used a mouse since the 90s

01:26:26 ◼   ► 'cause I got, and I know I've told this story,

01:26:29 ◼   ► but basically one of my bosses at Mac User back in the day

01:26:32 ◼   ► had a Kensington Turbo Mouse.

01:26:34 ◼   ► And when she left to go to work for a different magazine,

01:26:36 ◼   ► I got that thing.

01:26:38 ◼   ► And at that point I was a trackball person

01:26:40 ◼   ► until the moment that I became a magic trackball person.

01:26:43 ◼   ► - I had a trackball at one of my jobs for a while too

01:26:46 ◼   ► that they got from me.

01:26:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, and you know what killed the trackball

01:26:48 ◼   ► is the innovation of the scroll wheel,

01:26:50 ◼   ► because you could do the two finger down scrolling

01:26:52 ◼   ► on a trackpad, but on a trackball they put like a ring

01:26:55 ◼   ► around it so you could, come on.

01:26:57 ◼   ► - They tried to bring a scroll wheel into some of them

01:26:59 ◼   ► at one point and it's like, no, that's not a thing.

01:27:02 ◼   ► - No, you can't do that.

01:27:03 ◼   ► - We all agree it's better than the ThinkPad eraser nub.

01:27:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I think Casey--

01:27:07 ◼   ► -Kasey, not Casey Liss.

01:27:09 ◼   ► Casey Liss loves that thing.

01:27:10 ◼   ► -Casey Liss is wrong. -Love that little nubbin.

01:27:12 ◼   ► -You heard it here. -Yeah.

01:27:13 ◼   ► Well, he hates everything.

01:27:16 ◼   ► But he loves that ThinkPad nub.

01:27:17 ◼   ► He does. Hi, Casey.

01:27:19 ◼   ► Brantz writes, "With the rumors about an updated iPad Pro

01:27:22 ◼   ► next year with wireless charging,"

01:27:24 ◼   ► mentioned earlier in this episode,

01:27:25 ◼   ► "how do you think Apple will handle that?

01:27:27 ◼   ► A glass-backed iPad sounds too heavy,

01:27:29 ◼   ► so maybe an exposed MagSafe ring,

01:27:31 ◼   ► sort of like the clear iPhone case?"

01:27:34 ◼   ► Brance, I think you gotta, when you think iPad Pro,

01:27:38 ◼   ► you've gotta think MacBook.

01:27:40 ◼   ► You've gotta think that it's not a big iPhone,

01:27:44 ◼   ► it's a thinner laptop.

01:27:47 ◼   ► And so I'm gonna say, I think that if they do iPhone,

01:27:51 ◼   ► they do iPad with a MagSafe charger,

01:27:54 ◼   ► or wireless charging of any kind,

01:27:56 ◼   ► it's gonna be MagSafe,

01:27:57 ◼   ► and it's not gonna be lay it down on a pad.

01:28:00 ◼   ► It's gonna be either a Puck,

01:28:02 ◼   ► or it's gonna be a MagSafe connector

01:28:05 ◼   ► like the new laptops have.

01:28:08 ◼   ► Maybe even the same one.

01:28:10 ◼   ► (gasps)

01:28:11 ◼   ► Maybe, possibly.

01:28:12 ◼   ► - You think it's gonna have two ports?

01:28:15 ◼   ► Is that where that's going?

01:28:16 ◼   ► - Do you mean like a MagSafe plus the USB-C?

01:28:18 ◼   ► - And USB-C, yeah, yeah.

01:28:19 ◼   ► - Maybe.

01:28:21 ◼   ► It already has, I mean, technically it's got

01:28:23 ◼   ► the smart connector on the back, so it would be,

01:28:25 ◼   ► one way to do it would have it be a magnetic smart connector