Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► from relay FM this is upgrade episode 399 today's show is brought to you by

00:00:13 ◼   ► squarespace door dash and member four my name is

00:00:17 ◼   ► mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snowe hi jason

00:00:20 ◼   ► hi mike hurley welcome back to the upgrade program i'm

00:00:23 ◼   ► very happy to be here and i come with me bearing

00:00:26 ◼   ► a #SnailTalk question that comes from Peter who says,

00:00:29 ◼   ► "Jason, you did your cord cutting.

00:00:31 ◼   ► When you went through that and you cut all the cords,

00:00:35 ◼   ► did you add a cord, an ethernet cable to your Apple TV box?

00:00:38 ◼   ► Or are you just using your home wifi?"

00:00:40 ◼   ► - I just want to clarify,

00:00:41 ◼   ► when people talk about cord cutting, it's a metaphor,

00:00:43 ◼   ► 'cause you don't actually cut the cord because-

00:00:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm sure you do.

00:00:45 ◼   ► - There's still a, well, I did cut the cable, TV cable,

00:00:50 ◼   ► but there is now a fiber optic cable running into my house.

00:00:53 ◼   ► It's not like I actually cut the cord.

00:00:56 ◼   ► It's a metaphor.

00:00:57 ◼   ► And my Apple TV boxes have been wired with ethernet

00:01:01 ◼   ► for a long time now because it's more reliable.

00:01:04 ◼   ► And if I've got any device that can be wired with ethernet,

00:01:07 ◼   ► I wire it with ethernet

00:01:08 ◼   ► 'cause it's more reliable than wifi and faster.

00:01:11 ◼   ► And so, yes, my Apple TV has already had ethernet.

00:01:15 ◼   ► I didn't add it, it already had it.

00:01:17 ◼   ► And that is for reliability from the outside

00:01:20 ◼   ► and also for speed on the inside

00:01:22 ◼   ► 'cause I do have a Plex server.

00:01:23 ◼   ► So it is gonna be,

00:01:25 ◼   ► the Plex stuff can come down faster than stuff

00:01:28 ◼   ► from the internet.

00:01:28 ◼   ► So yeah, that's why.

00:01:30 ◼   ► - I've never even thought about plugging an Apple TV

00:01:33 ◼   ► into ethernet.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Like it's just, honestly, I forgot that it even

00:01:36 ◼   ► had the port.

00:01:37 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:01:38 ◼   ► - But it's cool that it does.

00:01:39 ◼   ► - I mean, it's, it's, it is, I mean, that's the truth

00:01:42 ◼   ► is that wired is going to be more reliable than wifi.

00:01:45 ◼   ► Even if you have reliable wifi, it's going to be a little

00:01:47 ◼   ► bit faster and it's going to be, you know, weird things

00:01:49 ◼   ► happen with wifi, weird things can happen with ethernet too,

00:01:52 ◼   ► but it's much less common.

00:01:53 ◼   ► And again, I've got a whole ethernet like connectivity thing

00:01:58 ◼   ► that like there's so much ethernet in my,

00:02:01 ◼   ► in where the Apple TV is that why would I not plug it in?

00:02:05 ◼   ► - If you would like to send in a question for us to open

00:02:07 ◼   ► an episode of Upgrade with,

00:02:08 ◼   ► just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk,

00:02:10 ◼   ► or use question mark SnellTalk

00:02:11 ◼   ► in the Relay FM members discord.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Saddle up Jason Snell,

00:02:15 ◼   ► 'cause we're gonna mosey on down for the rumor roundup.

00:02:17 ◼   ► And I got a big one for you today, my friend.

00:02:20 ◼   ► We've got like a lot of categories we're gonna get through

00:02:22 ◼   ► because it's been a busy couple of weeks.

00:02:24 ◼   ► I'm going to start with a Mac Mini.

00:02:26 ◼   ► 9to5Mac is reporting that Apple is working on an update to the Mac Mini which will feature

00:02:31 ◼   ► options for an M2 and M2 Pro chip.

00:02:33 ◼   ► The M2 will still feature 8 CPU cores like the M1 but it will be bumped up to 10 GPU

00:02:40 ◼   ► cores.

00:02:41 ◼   ► The M2 Pro will have a 12 core CPU and I'm assuming a 10 core GPU.

00:02:47 ◼   ► reading from 9to5Mac, "According to 9to5Mac's sources, Apple have plans to introduce high-end

00:02:53 ◼   ► versions of the current Mac Mini with the M1 Pro and M1 Mac's chips, but they were

00:02:58 ◼   ► probably scrapped to make way for the Mac Studio."

00:03:02 ◼   ► And Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting that this Mac Mini is set for 2023 and it will feature the

00:03:08 ◼   ► same design that we have currently, which I guess kind of makes sense given the way

00:03:12 ◼   ► the Mac Studio looks.

00:03:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:03:15 ◼   ► I think what's interesting here is that we're starting

00:03:18 ◼   ► to talk about what the M2 generation is gonna look like.

00:03:21 ◼   ► - Yep, got more of that coming up.

00:03:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, and there is a question of like, well,

00:03:24 ◼   ► are they gonna do a higher end Mac mini

00:03:27 ◼   ► since they have the Mac studio?

00:03:28 ◼   ► But a lot of people have written about,

00:03:30 ◼   ► Dan Morin did it in "Six Colors" last week,

00:03:32 ◼   ► like there's a hole in the Mac desktop space

00:03:37 ◼   ► between an M1 in a bunch of computers

00:03:41 ◼   ► and the M1 Macs in the studio.

00:03:43 ◼   ► and that's the base.

00:03:45 ◼   ► And it's in that kind of like pro level.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Why isn't there a pro M whatever pro chip desktop?

00:03:51 ◼   ► And the Mac Mini is a logical place for it.

00:03:54 ◼   ► I think it might be in the iMac too,

00:03:56 ◼   ► but like the Mac Mini is a logical place for it.

00:03:58 ◼   ► And it sounds like this is just gonna be a next generation.

00:04:01 ◼   ► Maybe they set it aside as Ming-Chi Kuo suggests,

00:04:05 ◼   ► that maybe they set it aside for the Mac studio

00:04:07 ◼   ► and thought, let's get this thing out the door this year.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Probably these computers are not gonna be updated

00:04:12 ◼   ► every year, right?

00:04:14 ◼   ► So maybe it's like, okay,

00:04:14 ◼   ► we're gonna do the studio this year.

00:04:16 ◼   ► We'll see, we'll see, maybe they will.

00:04:19 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, saying that the M1 Mac Mini,

00:04:22 ◼   ► as Ming-Chi Kuo is saying, except for 2023,

00:04:24 ◼   ► that would be like way over like an 18 month span at least,

00:04:29 ◼   ► nearly two years since the Mac Mini received

00:04:31 ◼   ► any kind of update.

00:04:32 ◼   ► - You got the M1 Mac Mini and then in '23,

00:04:34 ◼   ► they come back in early '23, let's say,

00:04:36 ◼   ► with the M2 with an option for an M2 Pro.

00:04:40 ◼   ► And then you, and that,

00:04:42 ◼   ► I think that's what Apple wants to do, right?

00:04:44 ◼   ► I think we've seen,

00:04:45 ◼   ► we've seen generation one of Apple Silicon now more or less.

00:04:51 ◼   ► And, you know, it is their first attempt

00:04:54 ◼   ► and they've got a lot to do.

00:04:55 ◼   ► So I think it's not surprising that maybe

00:04:58 ◼   ► we're gonna see a more full,

00:05:00 ◼   ► well-rounded set of products when they get to M2.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Because yeah, the M2 Pro is a really great example of like,

00:05:08 ◼   ► there's just no desktops with M2 Pro.

00:05:10 ◼   ► Why is that?

00:05:11 ◼   ► And I think it's because they revised a bunch

00:05:14 ◼   ► of their lower end desktops for the M1

00:05:15 ◼   ► and then put them aside 'cause they had other stuff to do

00:05:18 ◼   ► and they haven't gotten back to it yet.

00:05:20 ◼   ► - I mean, and it's also possible that Apple just think

00:05:22 ◼   ► that that's laptop territory.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Like I know that's maybe not what you're asking for,

00:05:27 ◼   ► you know, what people might be asking for,

00:05:29 ◼   ► but maybe for them, they don't feel the need

00:05:31 ◼   ► to cover every possible chip variant in a desktop machine.

00:05:35 ◼   ► I don't know, right?

00:05:36 ◼   ► - I doubt it because Apple, the modern Apple,

00:05:39 ◼   ► We talk a lot about Tim Cook's Apple being really good

00:05:41 ◼   ► at like keeping old products around.

00:05:44 ◼   ► The other thing that I've noticed in the Apple Silicon era

00:05:47 ◼   ► with, especially with modern Apple is,

00:05:49 ◼   ► modern Apple is really good at reusing parts.

00:05:52 ◼   ► They make their own stuff and then they use it everywhere.

00:05:55 ◼   ► And so I think that we will eventually get to the point

00:06:00 ◼   ► where there's M1 Pro stuff in desktops,

00:06:03 ◼   ► just like there are in laptops, because why not?

00:06:06 ◼   ► It's an opportunity to upsell a Mac mini user.

00:06:08 ◼   ► I think it probably will happen, but it's not surprising that it didn't happen this

00:06:11 ◼   ► round because I think the laptops were the priority.

00:06:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Talking about laptops, the MacBook Air now we're going to move on to.

00:06:20 ◼   ► So 9to5Mac is also—9to5Mac's got a lot of reports at the moment.

00:06:23 ◼   ► They've stumbled across something, they've got some new sources.

00:06:26 ◼   ► You know, we spoke about the fact that they were bang on with the Mac Studio, and both

00:06:31 ◼   ► that Mac Mini and this MacBook Air report they're saying come from their sources.

00:06:35 ◼   ► 9to5Mac is reporting that a new MacBook Air and 13-inch MacBook Pro will come later this

00:06:40 ◼   ► year featuring the M2 chip.

00:06:44 ◼   ► We will not be getting the updated MacBook Air until the M2 is ready.

00:06:48 ◼   ► They are also reporting that Apple is considering dropping the Pro from the 13-inch MacBook

00:06:53 ◼   ► Pro, making it just the MacBook.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Whether that will happen this time around or not, they're not sure, but that is something

00:06:59 ◼   ► that Apple is apparently considering, which I think makes a lot of sense.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, that would certainly make it a lot less weirder of a product.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Correct.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Yeah, definitely.

00:07:09 ◼   ► And Mark Gurman, the sheriff of The Room Around Up, added to this saying that the new MacBook

00:07:15 ◼   ► Air was originally expected to be a late 2021 product featuring a new design, MagSafe, and

00:07:21 ◼   ► the M2 chip, but it's now expected in the second half of 2022.

00:07:26 ◼   ► I guess this would, you would then assume there has been some kind of hold up on the

00:07:31 ◼   ► M2 it's probably because of all of the shortages around you know like around everything at

00:07:35 ◼   ► the moment so maybe Apple was held off from M2 products because Mark also reports that

00:07:41 ◼   ► an M2 Pro update to the 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pro is now not expected until 2023.

00:07:48 ◼   ► So what it seems from these reports so far is that we will see the M2 this year but the

00:07:54 ◼   ► the M2 Pro could potentially be 2023, right?

00:07:58 ◼   ► Because now the Mac mini and the MacBook Pros

00:08:01 ◼   ► not expected to get any updates until 2023.

00:08:05 ◼   ► - And it looks like what we're looking at here,

00:08:06 ◼   ► at least for now is an 18 to 24 month cycle

00:08:10 ◼   ► of updating these products.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And I wonder in the long run,

00:08:13 ◼   ► I'm wondering what that means in terms of core,

00:08:17 ◼   ► like the base core of the M chips

00:08:19 ◼   ► and where at some point you'll be way behind the A series.

00:08:23 ◼   ► So I wonder if they will have a skip year

00:08:25 ◼   ► where they go like based on like the M2 is based on the A15

00:08:29 ◼   ► but the M3 is based on the A17 or something like that.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Like I do wonder if they'll get there at some point.

00:08:35 ◼   ► I, it's hard to gauge given the supply chain constraints

00:08:39 ◼   ► and everything else exactly what Apple wants this to be.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I have a hard time believing that Apple wants

00:08:45 ◼   ► a two year cycle for upgrades.

00:08:47 ◼   ► I think that it probably wants something more like 18 months

00:08:52 ◼   ► and maybe even annually for some products,

00:08:56 ◼   ► but I don't think, I mean,

00:08:58 ◼   ► what Mark Gurman's report suggests more than anything

00:09:00 ◼   ► is that they really did want to have a new MacBook Air

00:09:04 ◼   ► about a year after the first one,

00:09:06 ◼   ► and they just couldn't do it.

00:09:08 ◼   ► And so now it's gonna be second half,

00:09:10 ◼   ► which I had somebody in a Slack that I'm in say,

00:09:13 ◼   ► "Oh, see, Mark Gurman says now that the MacBook Air

00:09:16 ◼   ► is not gonna come out until the fall."

00:09:17 ◼   ► And it's like, well, second half starts in July 1st, right?

00:09:21 ◼   ► Like you could announce it at WWDC and ship it in July

00:09:24 ◼   ► if you wanted to and that's technically second half.

00:09:27 ◼   ► Yeah, fall is probably more likely, but we don't know yet.

00:09:30 ◼   ► - I'm sure they would love to get it out before

00:09:32 ◼   ► back to school if they can, right?

00:09:33 ◼   ► I think that would be pretty prime.

00:09:35 ◼   ► - I think Apple would love to announce the M2 at WWDC, right?

00:09:40 ◼   ► I think they would love that.

00:09:41 ◼   ► So we, and maybe we will see that.

00:09:44 ◼   ► Yeah, interesting to see that.

00:09:46 ◼   ► And the MacBook Pro being less weird

00:09:50 ◼   ► is an interesting wrinkle.

00:09:51 ◼   ► I've been wondering for a while now

00:09:53 ◼   ► if they would bring back the MacBook name.

00:09:54 ◼   ► That's one way to do it.

00:09:57 ◼   ► But yeah, so I think the question is just

00:09:58 ◼   ► when does the M2 cycle begin now that the M1 seems

00:10:03 ◼   ► to be kind of gliding to its end?

00:10:05 ◼   ► - Ross Young, display analyst,

00:10:07 ◼   ► has some, obviously, some display reports.

00:10:10 ◼   ► A 27-inch mini-LED standalone display

00:10:14 ◼   ► is still expected by Young for June.

00:10:17 ◼   ► And he's referring to it as Studio Display Pro.

00:10:20 ◼   ► and has now corrected a rumor that he was talking about

00:10:25 ◼   ► earlier in the year about an iMac Pro

00:10:28 ◼   ► with these exact specs, 27 inches of mini LED.

00:10:32 ◼   ► What Jung has said was that his supply chain contacts

00:10:36 ◼   ► may have misconstrued what this panel was for

00:10:39 ◼   ► or what he was told.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Basically, it was expected this panel

00:10:42 ◼   ► is gonna be for an iMac Pro, but there is no iMac Pro.

00:10:45 ◼   ► It's going to be its own more expensive display.

00:10:50 ◼   ► 27 inches is odd to me, I will say,

00:10:53 ◼   ► because that's exactly what the current studio display is.

00:10:55 ◼   ► I would have expected larger.

00:10:57 ◼   ► - Same.

00:10:58 ◼   ► And the rumors were for a larger iMac too, right?

00:11:02 ◼   ► So that would actually,

00:11:04 ◼   ► there are lots of things for me to be skeptical about,

00:11:07 ◼   ► about this report.

00:11:08 ◼   ► And I don't know Ross Young's track record,

00:11:09 ◼   ► but I'll just say that like,

00:11:11 ◼   ► this feels like something that may be in flux, I guess,

00:11:14 ◼   ► is what I would say.

00:11:16 ◼   ► That is Apple working on a mini LED standalone display

00:11:19 ◼   ► or a mini LED display to put in a large product,

00:11:23 ◼   ► whether it's a standalone or an iMac, undoubtedly right.

00:11:27 ◼   ► - I mean, I'm sure they're working on a replacement

00:11:29 ◼   ► to the Pro Display XDR, which is mini LED, right?

00:11:32 ◼   ► Like that makes sense to me.

00:11:33 ◼   ► - Absolutely, right.

00:11:35 ◼   ► So what I'm saying though is,

00:11:38 ◼   ► I don't know if his information

00:11:40 ◼   ► is gonna get the ship dates right.

00:11:43 ◼   ► It seems weird to me that Apple would follow up

00:11:45 ◼   ► the studio display with a pro version three months later.

00:11:49 ◼   ► That seems very strange to me.

00:11:51 ◼   ► And also that means he's suggesting

00:11:53 ◼   ► that they're going to announce the Mac Pro

00:11:55 ◼   ► at WWDC basically, and then ship it.

00:11:59 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:12:00 ◼   ► - I mean, all of that, it's possible to me.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Like it's possible to me that I can imagine them

00:12:04 ◼   ► launching a new display alongside the Mac Pro.

00:12:07 ◼   ► The thing I would struggle with is if it's the exact

00:12:10 ◼   ► same size as the one that they just announced.

00:12:12 ◼   ► That would be weird to me.

00:12:13 ◼   ► That would be weird.

00:12:15 ◼   ► - I will throw this out there.

00:12:16 ◼   ► putting a display, pairing a display

00:12:18 ◼   ► with a Mac Pro announcement, that's XDR kind of stuff.

00:12:23 ◼   ► You do that when it's really expensive.

00:12:25 ◼   ► And that may be the story here is Apple

00:12:27 ◼   ► is doing a standalone, maybe it's even a 27.

00:12:30 ◼   ► It's gonna be XDR, mini LED backlit,

00:12:34 ◼   ► it's gonna be beautiful.

00:12:35 ◼   ► They're pairing it with a Mac Pro

00:12:37 ◼   ► because everybody's gonna scream bloody murder

00:12:38 ◼   ► when they find out that it costs 3000 bucks, right?

00:12:41 ◼   ► That's the, that's gonna be the trick there.

00:12:45 ◼   ► So if they do it, so for people who are like,

00:12:47 ◼   ► and I know we're gonna talk about the studio display

00:12:49 ◼   ► a little bit later, for people who are saying,

00:12:52 ◼   ► I can't believe it, like, oh, I bought this thing

00:12:54 ◼   ► and now they're gonna do this other awesome thing

00:12:56 ◼   ► and I can't believe that they would do this to me.

00:12:58 ◼   ► Just wait till you see the price of it, right?

00:12:59 ◼   ► 'Cause like that's, right now, if they do that,

00:13:03 ◼   ► the what is rumored, it's gonna cost a lot of money.

00:13:06 ◼   ► It's gonna cost way more than $1,600, let me tell you.

00:13:09 ◼   ► And a lot of people are gonna look at the studio display

00:13:13 ◼   ► and say, "Oh, I'll stick with this."

00:13:16 ◼   ► - It's a good deal.

00:13:17 ◼   ► - It's nice.

00:13:18 ◼   ► It's a, well, that's one of the arguments

00:13:21 ◼   ► about the studio display is people are like,

00:13:22 ◼   ► "Oh, but you can get other monitors."

00:13:23 ◼   ► It's like, you can, but really there's only the LG Ultrafine

00:13:27 ◼   ► and everybody, you know, did not embrace the LG Ultrafine.

00:13:31 ◼   ► It's okay and people have bought it,

00:13:33 ◼   ► but now you've got this Apple monitor

00:13:34 ◼   ► and yeah, it's more expensive,

00:13:35 ◼   ► but like what's the competition

00:13:38 ◼   ► in terms of Apple, really Apple focused monitors?

00:13:42 ◼   ► there are other displays and always have been,

00:13:44 ◼   ► but that's the problem that I have is like,

00:13:46 ◼   ► it is fulfilling a specific need that at $1,600,

00:13:51 ◼   ► given that it's from Apple,

00:13:52 ◼   ► I actually was surprised that it wasn't 2000.

00:13:55 ◼   ► So yeah, you pay extra, but you get an Apple display

00:14:00 ◼   ► and that's why, but the next one, if it's this one,

00:14:03 ◼   ► it's not gonna be 1600, it's not gonna be 2000, right?

00:14:06 ◼   ► It's gonna be 2,500 or it's gonna be 3000.

00:14:08 ◼   ► It can be really expensive.

00:14:09 ◼   ► And they're gonna talk about all the pro

00:14:11 ◼   ► and dynamic range features for video

00:14:14 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff.

00:14:15 ◼   ► And ProMotion, sure, all of that stuff.

00:14:17 ◼   ► And they're gonna put it in a pro context

00:14:19 ◼   ► because no regular person is gonna buy it

00:14:22 ◼   ► for what it's gonna cost at the outset.

00:14:24 ◼   ► And then maybe next year it is in an iMac Pro

00:14:27 ◼   ► and that iMac Pro will also be $5,000 or whatever

00:14:30 ◼   ► like the old iMac Pro was, maybe.

00:14:32 ◼   ► - And finally, Mark Gurman has published his expectation

00:14:35 ◼   ► of the Mac lineup by the end of 2023.

00:14:39 ◼   ► - Just keep in mind, 23, this is next year.

00:14:42 ◼   ► This is 20 months away.

00:14:46 ◼   ► - So Pro, MacBook Pro 14 and 16 inch

00:14:49 ◼   ► with an M2 Pro and M2 Max.

00:14:51 ◼   ► iMac Pro with an M2 Pro and M2 Max.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Max Studio with an M2 Max and M2 Ultra.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Mac Pro with an M2 Ultra and M2 Extreme.

00:15:02 ◼   ► That's what me and Steven said, remember?

00:15:03 ◼   ► - Totally extreme. - A couple of weeks ago,

00:15:05 ◼   ► M2 Extreme.

00:15:06 ◼   ► And Apple Pro Display 7K.

00:15:09 ◼   ► Whatever that is, right?

00:15:13 ◼   ► - It's the XDR replacement, right?

00:15:15 ◼   ► It's the $5,000 display, yeah.

00:15:18 ◼   ► - And then consumer, MacBook Air with an M2,

00:15:21 ◼   ► MacBook Pro 13 inch with an M2,

00:15:24 ◼   ► Mac Mini with an M2, an M2 Pro version

00:15:27 ◼   ► to replace the Intel model,

00:15:28 ◼   ► iMac with an M2, Apple Studio Display.

00:15:31 ◼   ► - Seems pretty reasonable, right?

00:15:33 ◼   ► Like he's filling in the gaps there

00:15:35 ◼   ► of what exists already and what seems like

00:15:38 ◼   ► it will probably exist, and then filling it

00:15:40 ◼   ► with M2 processors so they finish the next turn

00:15:43 ◼   ► of the wheel, I think that's all pretty reasonable.

00:15:46 ◼   ► The things that make you raise your eyebrows

00:15:48 ◼   ► are iMac Pro, right, because they don't have

00:15:51 ◼   ► something like that now, and that would be,

00:15:54 ◼   ► and I think our guess that we just made

00:15:56 ◼   ► is probably right, which is if you do that,

00:15:58 ◼   ► you really make an iMac Pro and you put the good display

00:16:01 ◼   ► in it and you offer the same stuff that's in the Mac Studio

00:16:04 ◼   ► and it costs, right?

00:16:07 ◼   ► Maybe it doesn't start at 5,000,

00:16:09 ◼   ► but maybe it starts at 3,000

00:16:10 ◼   ► and then the ultra version is 5,000, something like that.

00:16:13 ◼   ► But I could see it, I could see it.

00:16:16 ◼   ► And then on the consumer side, yeah,

00:16:18 ◼   ► I mean, that's basically just everything that's obvious

00:16:21 ◼   ► plus the Intel Mac Mini being replaced,

00:16:25 ◼   ► which is also obvious.

00:16:26 ◼   ► I think that's right.

00:16:28 ◼   ► I think Apple's consumer story

00:16:29 ◼   ► is actually pretty clear right now

00:16:30 ◼   ► of what they're gonna do.

00:16:32 ◼   ► We need to know some of the details,

00:16:33 ◼   ► but I don't think anybody really expects

00:16:35 ◼   ► a giant revamp of it.

00:16:37 ◼   ► They're just gonna, you know,

00:16:37 ◼   ► they'll update the MacBook Air

00:16:39 ◼   ► and they're gonna fix the MacBook Pro 13 inch

00:16:41 ◼   ► so that it isn't what it currently is

00:16:43 ◼   ► and maybe rebrand it when they do that.

00:16:45 ◼   ► That's an interesting idea.

00:16:46 ◼   ► And then I, we're still too early to settle on

00:16:50 ◼   ► exactly what Apple's desired cycle is for this.

00:16:53 ◼   ► I really am fascinated by that.

00:16:55 ◼   ► Are they gonna try to turn this over every two years

00:16:57 ◼   ► or every year or every 18 months?

00:16:59 ◼   ► but there's less surprise it looks like.

00:17:04 ◼   ► Of course, true surprises are surprises,

00:17:08 ◼   ► but I don't know,

00:17:09 ◼   ► I feel like we're getting in the shape of it now.

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00:18:54 ◼   ► So the Mac Studio is now available to the world.

00:18:58 ◼   ► And of course you wrote your review,

00:19:00 ◼   ► which was published late last week.

00:19:03 ◼   ► And so we're going to talk about it.

00:19:04 ◼   ► Can you remind the Upgrading listeners,

00:19:07 ◼   ► the Upgrading's out there,

00:19:08 ◼   ► the configuration that you have here

00:19:11 ◼   ► and also the configuration that you ordered for yourself?

00:19:14 ◼   ► - The one that I've got here from Apple is the 3199 version.

00:19:20 ◼   ► It's got the 32 core GPU.

00:19:23 ◼   ► It's the M1 Max, 32 core GPU, two terabytes of storage,

00:19:26 ◼   ► 64 gigs of RAM.

00:19:28 ◼   ► The one I ordered was the 24 core GPU

00:19:31 ◼   ► with 32 gigs of RAM and two terabytes storage.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - Okay, so it's, storage is the same, less RAM,

00:19:39 ◼   ► and yours is the base M1 Max, is that right?

00:19:42 ◼   ► The 24 core?

00:19:43 ◼   ► - With two gig, two terabytes of storage.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it's just the base configuration.

00:19:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:19:49 ◼   ► - I almost went with the base base,

00:19:51 ◼   ► But I have a, my iMac Pro had one terabyte of onboard storage

00:19:55 ◼   ► and I decided that was, I wanted more than that

00:19:59 ◼   ► because I was hitting right up against it.

00:20:00 ◼   ► - I wouldn't say it's cheap because I mean,

00:20:02 ◼   ► you're being practical with it.

00:20:04 ◼   ► Like this is already more powerful than the machine,

00:20:07 ◼   ► you know, that is replacing.

00:20:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, what I'm saying is more that like,

00:20:09 ◼   ► when I got the iMac Pro, I got the base model.

00:20:12 ◼   ► And when I got the Mac studio, I got the base model.

00:20:14 ◼   ► Plus a little bit, but mostly I got the base model.

00:20:16 ◼   ► 'Cause for me, I am one of those people who's like,

00:20:18 ◼   ► I'm tempted by those pro kind of features,

00:20:21 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna go venturing up

00:20:25 ◼   ► into the high-end configured order expensive.

00:20:28 ◼   ► It's like for me, getting to the base model

00:20:31 ◼   ► is the place that achieves my goal

00:20:35 ◼   ► and then I don't need to go beyond that.

00:20:37 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:20:38 ◼   ► One of the things I find interesting right now,

00:20:40 ◼   ► like I've just been poking around on Apple's website

00:20:42 ◼   ► and basically the only machines that are available

00:20:46 ◼   ► for pickup anywhere are the base configurations.

00:20:48 ◼   ► Like you add any kind of build to order spec

00:20:50 ◼   ► and it's like unavailable and it's 10 to 12 weeks.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Like anything that you change.

00:20:55 ◼   ► I mean, usually, I mean in the past,

00:20:57 ◼   ► you know, we've experienced this.

00:20:58 ◼   ► There are like certain configurations

00:21:00 ◼   ► that you keep in store.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Now, and I don't know if you go to an Apple store,

00:21:03 ◼   ► maybe it's different, but for the pickup at least,

00:21:06 ◼   ► like, you know, sometimes maybe if you bumped up the RAM one

00:21:09 ◼   ► and bumped up the SSD one, you might be able to get it.

00:21:11 ◼   ► But at the moment it seems like everything

00:21:13 ◼   ► is really, really back ordered.

00:21:15 ◼   ► I mean, and just in general,

00:21:16 ◼   ► like I know that it's been tough, like my display,

00:21:18 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about display in a bit,

00:21:20 ◼   ► isn't coming still, like I've had no update,

00:21:22 ◼   ► is sometime between the end of March

00:21:24 ◼   ► and the beginning of April, and I ordered it immediately.

00:21:27 ◼   ► But that's because I didn't go for the regular one,

00:21:30 ◼   ► which you can pick those up in store,

00:21:33 ◼   ► but if you want one of the stand options,

00:21:35 ◼   ► you know, like either the VESA or the adjustable stand,

00:21:37 ◼   ► you have to get it online and you are gonna be waiting.

00:21:40 ◼   ► So I don't know what's going on there, but.

00:21:42 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, the factories in Shenzhen

00:21:46 ◼   ► shut down briefly for COVID.

00:21:49 ◼   ► - I mean on top of everything else.

00:21:50 ◼   ► So like, it was already delays, I'm sure,

00:21:53 ◼   ► before even that all started to happen again.

00:21:55 ◼   ► So do you have any, having used a machine

00:21:58 ◼   ► which is going to be a bit more powerful

00:22:00 ◼   ► than the one that you have ordered,

00:22:02 ◼   ► do you have any regrets about the order that you made?

00:22:04 ◼   ► - No. - Okay.

00:22:06 ◼   ► - I'm not ever stressing the GPU really of anything,

00:22:09 ◼   ► and 24 core GPU.

00:22:11 ◼   ► Yeah, it's fine.

00:22:12 ◼   ► It's okay.

00:22:13 ◼   ► I'll be fine.

00:22:13 ◼   ► I'll be just fine with that. - And 32 gigabytes of RAM

00:22:15 ◼   ► is definitely gonna be enough too.

00:22:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Like, I, yeah, I think so.

00:22:22 ◼   ► That's, I have a hard time justifying the cost

00:22:25 ◼   ► to go up to 64, and I'm not sure that it really is,

00:22:28 ◼   ► again, one of those things that is necessary for my use.

00:22:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, like I've told this story before on the show, right?

00:22:32 ◼   ► Like I've got 16 gigabytes of RAM on my first M1 machine,

00:22:36 ◼   ► because it was all I could do, right?

00:22:37 ◼   ► And I have 16 gigabytes of RAM on the iMac in front of me.

00:22:40 ◼   ► Now, the MacBook Pro was a problem.

00:22:42 ◼   ► Like I was, it was always telling me

00:22:43 ◼   ► it was running out of RAM.

00:22:44 ◼   ► So when I got my new MacBook Pro,

00:22:47 ◼   ► like the second generation MacBook Pro

00:22:49 ◼   ► went up to 64 gigabytes,

00:22:50 ◼   ► and that's what was more than needed.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Like I could have got away with 32

00:22:55 ◼   ► and I reckon I'd be absolutely fine.

00:22:57 ◼   ► There was just something going on with that MacBook Pro

00:22:59 ◼   ► because I never get those like pop-ups telling me

00:23:03 ◼   ► I've run out of RAM on my iMac.

00:23:05 ◼   ► And I put my iMac through way more

00:23:06 ◼   ► than I put that MacBook Pro through.

00:23:08 ◼   ► So I don't know what's going on.

00:23:08 ◼   ► - Something weird.

00:23:09 ◼   ► - Something weird was happening.

00:23:10 ◼   ► - Going on.

00:23:11 ◼   ► But whereas the terabytes on the SSD,

00:23:13 ◼   ► it's like I live with this thing,

00:23:16 ◼   ► I have big projects.

00:23:17 ◼   ► I have had those moments

00:23:19 ◼   ► where I've needed to clear things out.

00:23:21 ◼   ► It's not, you know,

00:23:22 ◼   ► I'm not always running right up against it,

00:23:24 ◼   ► but it's enough for me to be,

00:23:29 ◼   ► to decide I don't,

00:23:30 ◼   ► I'll pay some money to not be bothered by it anymore.

00:23:34 ◼   ► Like this one here has two terabytes

00:23:36 ◼   ► and I have 1.05 terabytes available, right?

00:23:40 ◼   ► So you can see I'm right up against it.

00:23:43 ◼   ► and I'd be happy to not be right up against it.

00:23:46 ◼   ► - Oh, for sure.

00:23:47 ◼   ► Like I have a terabyte on my iMac

00:23:50 ◼   ► and I have 286 gigabytes available.

00:23:52 ◼   ► I don't like that.

00:23:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:23:54 ◼   ► - Like that's closer than I need to be considering,

00:23:57 ◼   ► you know, I have things that can get very large in size

00:24:00 ◼   ► very quickly, like projects that I'm working on, you know?

00:24:02 ◼   ► So I would, again, it was all I could do with the M1.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Like I don't think I had much more of an option,

00:24:09 ◼   ► at least for this machine.

00:24:11 ◼   ► So I agree, like storage, I mean,

00:24:13 ◼   ► Because how long did you have your iMac Pro for?

00:24:15 ◼   ► Like four, five years?

00:24:17 ◼   ► Something like that?

00:24:19 ◼   ► - Well, since it came out, so what is that?

00:24:21 ◼   ► That's-- - 2017, wasn't it?

00:24:22 ◼   ► - It was December 2017, so four plus years.

00:24:27 ◼   ► - And so again, the expectation would be

00:24:29 ◼   ► that that's what this Mac Studio will get from you.

00:24:32 ◼   ► So if there was anything you were gonna change,

00:24:34 ◼   ► I would completely agree with you

00:24:35 ◼   ► that SSD storage is the one to bump up for.

00:24:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so.

00:24:39 ◼   ► - I wanna read a quote from your article.

00:24:40 ◼   ► "This is a computer designed to be used,

00:24:42 ◼   ► to be looked at as a piece of art.

00:24:44 ◼   ► When you choose to stick ports on the front of a computer,

00:24:46 ◼   ► you are choosing function over form.

00:24:49 ◼   ► That is the story of the Mac studio.

00:24:52 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:24:53 ◼   ► - It is a very utilitarian computer.

00:24:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that,

00:24:57 ◼   ► but that's what it is.

00:24:58 ◼   ► - It's telling the story of itself,

00:25:00 ◼   ► like in the way that you mentioned it, right?

00:25:01 ◼   ► Like they have built a computer to work good.

00:25:05 ◼   ► And that's what it does, right?

00:25:08 ◼   ► - I refer to it, some people complain

00:25:10 ◼   ► 'cause I refer to it as homely,

00:25:11 ◼   ► which is, it's a slur, right?

00:25:14 ◼   ► I am saying that it's unattractive in appearance,

00:25:17 ◼   ► but also I will point out that there is this other meaning

00:25:20 ◼   ► sort of like, or at least vibe from that term.

00:25:22 ◼   ► And I know in the Britishism,

00:25:23 ◼   ► homely also means sort of like comfy,

00:25:28 ◼   ► like not fancy, but cozy and comfy and unpretentious.

00:25:32 ◼   ► That's another kind of phrase of homely.

00:25:35 ◼   ► And that is also what I mean.

00:25:37 ◼   ► Like it is a tool.

00:25:40 ◼   ► It is designed to be used.

00:25:42 ◼   ► It is utilitarian.

00:25:44 ◼   ► And is it beautiful and an object of art?

00:25:48 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, it's not.

00:25:51 ◼   ► And that's the point.

00:25:52 ◼   ► And it's okay.

00:25:53 ◼   ► And if you like how it looks, great.

00:25:55 ◼   ► But I feel like it is,

00:25:58 ◼   ► it's supposed to look like something that you actually use.

00:26:02 ◼   ► And if they put the ports, the ports of the story, right?

00:26:05 ◼   ► Like they put ports on the front and a slot on the front.

00:26:08 ◼   ► You do that when you don't care about the form

00:26:13 ◼   ► because you really know that people want ports on the front

00:26:16 ◼   ► for the function.

00:26:16 ◼   ► And that tells the whole story of this product.

00:26:19 ◼   ► And that's good.

00:26:20 ◼   ► It's a good thing.

00:26:22 ◼   ► We've just spent five years or more with pros,

00:26:26 ◼   ► especially telling Apple,

00:26:27 ◼   ► "Stop making my life harder for aesthetics

00:26:31 ◼   ► "I don't care about when I'm doing my job."

00:26:33 ◼   ► - And also, by putting ports on the front of it,

00:26:36 ◼   ► - There is a demonstration of saying,

00:26:38 ◼   ► we are proud of the way this thing looks

00:26:39 ◼   ► 'cause we want you to put it in front of you on your desk.

00:26:42 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:26:43 ◼   ► - You know, like by putting the ports on the front,

00:26:45 ◼   ► rather than say like on the top,

00:26:47 ◼   ► like they are on the Mac Pro, right?

00:26:49 ◼   ► Which is like, oh, we know we're gonna put this thing

00:26:51 ◼   ► under the desk 'cause we put them on the top

00:26:53 ◼   ► so they're easy to get to.

00:26:54 ◼   ► But putting them on the front,

00:26:56 ◼   ► that is saying like, this thing sits on the table

00:26:58 ◼   ► and that's where all of Apple's shots show, right?

00:27:01 ◼   ► Like it's on the table in front of you.

00:27:03 ◼   ► - Day one, I had plugged into the front ports

00:27:07 ◼   ► and put a card in the card slot, day one.

00:27:10 ◼   ► I was doing those photos for the Verge

00:27:12 ◼   ► and I was just sticking the card in the slot

00:27:14 ◼   ► from out of the Sony camera.

00:27:17 ◼   ► And then when I was pairing the wireless track pad,

00:27:22 ◼   ► I just plugged it into the front

00:27:25 ◼   ► 'cause it was right there, right?

00:27:26 ◼   ► Like I would reach around to the back

00:27:27 ◼   ► to just plug it in right there.

00:27:29 ◼   ► And it's like, oh, now this track pad is paired

00:27:31 ◼   ► I can continue the startup process.

00:27:33 ◼   ► - I kind of wished I had one USB-C port

00:27:36 ◼   ► in the front of my iMac.

00:27:38 ◼   ► Like I really do.

00:27:40 ◼   ► And I know that sounds silly,

00:27:41 ◼   ► but like I have to do that similar thing

00:27:42 ◼   ► because of the way,

00:27:43 ◼   ► I mean, anytime, right?

00:27:44 ◼   ► You use one of their keyboards, Apple's keyboards,

00:27:46 ◼   ► every now and then you go to plug it in to charge it.

00:27:48 ◼   ► And I kind of find it awkward to reach behind there,

00:27:51 ◼   ► you know?

00:27:51 ◼   ► And with my iMac Pro, I used to have one of these things,

00:27:54 ◼   ► I think SanDisk made it maybe,

00:27:56 ◼   ► where it would like put some ports on the front

00:27:58 ◼   ► and it was like color matched to the iMac Pro.

00:28:01 ◼   ► So you could have some ports on the front.

00:28:02 ◼   ► And I liked that.

00:28:03 ◼   ► Like, I think that that's good.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Or like David is saying,

00:28:06 ◼   ► and the chat on the side would be nicer even.

00:28:09 ◼   ► Right, 'cause you're putting it on the back.

00:28:10 ◼   ► It's like a little awkward.

00:28:11 ◼   ► I have to like move the iMac,

00:28:13 ◼   ► which luckily this 24 inch iMac is so incredibly light.

00:28:16 ◼   ► It's very easy to just swivel on the base that I got it on.

00:28:20 ◼   ► But you know, there is something to be said

00:28:22 ◼   ► for having ports on the front of your machine.

00:28:24 ◼   ► All right, and especially this machine.

00:28:26 ◼   ► this is meant to be like a creative workhorse machine,

00:28:30 ◼   ► like that's what it's for.

00:28:32 ◼   ► And so exactly that, right?

00:28:33 ◼   ► You want to put an SD card port on it, great.

00:28:36 ◼   ► Put it on the back, you will just annoy everyone.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Everyone will be annoyed at you,

00:28:40 ◼   ► if you put the SD card port on the back of the thing.

00:28:42 ◼   ► - Absolutely, right?

00:28:43 ◼   ► And if you think about it in a,

00:28:44 ◼   ► whether it's in a, like a lot of us are individuals,

00:28:47 ◼   ► but like if it's in a studio environment

00:28:48 ◼   ► where it's locked down by a bunch of IT people,

00:28:50 ◼   ► or it's an education environment,

00:28:51 ◼   ► or it's a video lab in a high school,

00:28:54 ◼   ► or something like that,

00:28:55 ◼   ► Like IT people are gonna come in

00:28:56 ◼   ► and they're gonna have everything plugged in the back

00:28:58 ◼   ► and it's gonna be all zip tied off and locked down

00:29:00 ◼   ► and have the security bolt on it and all those things, right?

00:29:04 ◼   ► And then the kid comes in with a camera

00:29:07 ◼   ► and they're like, all right,

00:29:08 ◼   ► well now I need to import my footage

00:29:09 ◼   ► or the person in the pro studio environment.

00:29:13 ◼   ► It's like, well, that's what the ports

00:29:14 ◼   ► on the front are for, right?

00:29:15 ◼   ► Like that's, you don't need to mess with it.

00:29:17 ◼   ► It's mounted, it's locked, whatever it is, doesn't matter.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Use the ports in the front.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Ports in the front are right there.

00:29:23 ◼   ► And that's, it's just utilitarian and it is good.

00:29:26 ◼   ► And I like, I used it immediately.

00:29:28 ◼   ► So I thought that was, I thought that was great.

00:29:30 ◼   ► By the way, as an aside,

00:29:31 ◼   ► since you're talking about your iMac,

00:29:33 ◼   ► putting an Apple Silicon computer on my desk

00:29:36 ◼   ► also meant that I initiated operation be like Myke Hurley,

00:29:40 ◼   ► which is I now have,

00:29:43 ◼   ► I now have a secret button underneath my desk

00:29:46 ◼   ► that I can place my finger on to unlock things via touch ID.

00:29:49 ◼   ► And no one needs to know

00:29:50 ◼   ► that there's a whole keyboard under there.

00:29:52 ◼   ► - Isn't it great though? - Velcro to the bottom.

00:29:54 ◼   ► I just have a little secret touch ID button.

00:29:56 ◼   ► Like I could, like I'm like a James Bond villain

00:29:58 ◼   ► and I'm dropping somebody into a pool of sharks.

00:30:00 ◼   ► It's like a ha, there it is. - That's how I feel.

00:30:01 ◼   ► I feel like I'm a Spectre agent, you know?

00:30:04 ◼   ► - Yep, I'm doing it.

00:30:05 ◼   ► I'm doing it.

00:30:05 ◼   ► I'm thinking about getting like carabiner or something

00:30:10 ◼   ► and like blocking out all the other keys on the keyboard

00:30:14 ◼   ► so that I don't accidentally miss and type things.

00:30:17 ◼   ► - I've never done it.

00:30:19 ◼   ► I've never done it.

00:30:19 ◼   ► - Once you locate where it is in your mind,

00:30:22 ◼   ► then you don't do it.

00:30:24 ◼   ► But I did the first day, I did a whole bunch of nonsense.

00:30:28 ◼   ► - The only thing I've ever done is if for some reason,

00:30:31 ◼   ► I don't know why, I've maybe messed around with my chair

00:30:35 ◼   ► a little bit, like the arms on my chair or something.

00:30:37 ◼   ► If I kind of just shuffle a little in my chair,

00:30:40 ◼   ► I can lock my Mac because it hits the power button

00:30:44 ◼   ► on the keyboard. - Ah yeah, that's not so good.

00:30:45 ◼   ► - And so it just locks it for me.

00:30:49 ◼   ► but you know, most of the time, not an issue.

00:30:51 ◼   ► But yeah, you can go wild if you want to,

00:30:53 ◼   ► you can type as much as you like.

00:30:54 ◼   ► - And I'm sad that it's only the silver version

00:30:56 ◼   ► that's available online, but then again,

00:30:58 ◼   ► I can't see that keyboard, so it's fine, it's fine.

00:31:01 ◼   ► - I have a beautiful yellow keyboard

00:31:02 ◼   ► stuck to the bottom of my desk.

00:31:04 ◼   ► Talking about your desk, you reference it being cluttered,

00:31:07 ◼   ► and that you now have an Apple Silicon computer

00:31:09 ◼   ► on your desk, right, you got a monitor,

00:31:11 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about the monitor in a bit,

00:31:12 ◼   ► but the machine is sitting on the top.

00:31:14 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:31:15 ◼   ► - What do you feel about this, having this big machine,

00:31:18 ◼   ► big quote unquote, like sitting on the desk.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Is that, how does that feel for you?

00:31:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, keep in mind with the iMac,

00:31:24 ◼   ► I am both iMac Pro and the iMac 5K before that.

00:31:28 ◼   ► It's been since I first moved in here

00:31:30 ◼   ► and I had a Dell monitor on an arm

00:31:32 ◼   ► and I had a MacBook Air dock to it, right?

00:31:34 ◼   ► That I've had something on the desk

00:31:37 ◼   ► 'cause with the arm it's floating above the desk.

00:31:39 ◼   ► And if people wanna look at this,

00:31:42 ◼   ► I mean, I guess I can get an image for the show notes.

00:31:43 ◼   ► We did a video, Dan Morin and I did a video

00:31:46 ◼   ► after the embargo dropped for about 90 minutes

00:31:48 ◼   ► and we answered questions and we talked about it.

00:31:50 ◼   ► And one of the shots in that for most of that video

00:31:52 ◼   ► is an overhead shot of my desk.

00:31:54 ◼   ► So you can see the Mac studio and you can see the display

00:31:56 ◼   ► and you can see all the cables.

00:31:58 ◼   ► And that was a, so it's a change

00:32:02 ◼   ► 'cause I have this thing on my desk

00:32:03 ◼   ► that didn't used to be there.

00:32:05 ◼   ► What's nice about it from a cabling perspective

00:32:08 ◼   ► is that most of the cables go into the back

00:32:10 ◼   ► of the Mac studio, which is over right now,

00:32:12 ◼   ► I've got it over by the cable port on the top of the desk,

00:32:16 ◼   ► the hole that the cables route through.

00:32:18 ◼   ► And then only two cables, right?

00:32:22 ◼   ► Only two cables, power and the Thunderbolt cable

00:32:25 ◼   ► are running to the display.

00:32:28 ◼   ► So it's less cable cluttery in that way.

00:32:31 ◼   ► And when the ARM, when I get my VESA mount version

00:32:34 ◼   ► with ARM, those two cables will run down the ARM.

00:32:36 ◼   ► - I see.

00:32:37 ◼   ► - But I do have this square.

00:32:39 ◼   ► - Because when with the iMac,

00:32:41 ◼   ► all of the cables have to run freely to the machine itself.

00:32:45 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:32:46 ◼   ► - And then they're on the ARM

00:32:46 ◼   ► and you need some slack on them. - A bunch.

00:32:47 ◼   ► so you can move it around.

00:32:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:32:50 ◼   ► - All of the like, most of the ports

00:32:52 ◼   ► that you can just put them all the way in the corner

00:32:54 ◼   ► if you want to, 'cause they're attached to the Mac itself.

00:32:57 ◼   ► - Right.

00:32:58 ◼   ► - You know, how do you feel about having the computer

00:32:59 ◼   ► on your desk though?

00:33:00 ◼   ► - It's gonna take some getting used to,

00:33:02 ◼   ► and I'm not sure I will get used to it.

00:33:04 ◼   ► I'm open to the idea of mounting it under my desk, honestly.

00:33:08 ◼   ► I'm thinking about that, like if somebody would make,

00:33:12 ◼   ► and it hasn't happened yet,

00:33:13 ◼   ► there are companies that make under desk mounts,

00:33:14 ◼   ► but they have not made one that is for the essentially

00:33:18 ◼   ► Mac mini dimensions, but four inches high,

00:33:21 ◼   ► which is what you need for this thing.

00:33:23 ◼   ► I'm sure someone will, right?

00:33:24 ◼   ► If they haven't already,

00:33:25 ◼   ► they will be announcing those products soon.

00:33:27 ◼   ► But like, I would be open to doing that.

00:33:29 ◼   ► I would probably want to mount it

00:33:31 ◼   ► toward the front of my desk,

00:33:32 ◼   ► so I had access to the slots and stuff.

00:33:35 ◼   ► But getting it off my desk might be nice,

00:33:38 ◼   ► just because it would give me more space on my desk,

00:33:41 ◼   ► 'cause I like my desk to be uncluttered.

00:33:43 ◼   ► But it's okay.

00:33:45 ◼   ► It's just fascinating to me

00:33:48 ◼   ► because I just got used to the all-in-one life, right?

00:33:51 ◼   ► And now I'm not in that all-in-one life.

00:33:54 ◼   ► And so I've got this other object that has,

00:33:57 ◼   ► the pro is all the cables just feed into it.

00:34:00 ◼   ► And then the one cable comes out

00:34:03 ◼   ► and goes to the monitor from the computer.

00:34:05 ◼   ► That's great.

00:34:06 ◼   ► But the other thing is there is this block of aluminum

00:34:09 ◼   ► sitting on the top of my desk

00:34:11 ◼   ► and that's a different kind of feel.

00:34:12 ◼   ► So I'll be interested to see how I adapt to it over time.

00:34:16 ◼   ► And if I do end up mounting it

00:34:20 ◼   ► underneath the desktop instead.

00:34:23 ◼   ► - Right. - We'll see.

00:34:24 ◼   ► - I've been kind of perplexed a little bit

00:34:27 ◼   ► about the M1 Max in the Max Studio

00:34:32 ◼   ► after reading your review.

00:34:35 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:34:35 ◼   ► - And it's kind of about performance

00:34:37 ◼   ► and how that performance is extracted in the machine.

00:34:42 ◼   ► So I want to start off just by getting your thoughts on the performance of the machine

00:34:46 ◼   ► in general and for you how it compares to the computer it is replacing. So like how have you

00:34:52 ◼   ► felt about the performance improvements compared to I think the most important thing the previous

00:34:56 ◼   ► Pro Mac that you had? Sure I think so first again to be clear Apple did not supply me with an M1

00:35:05 ◼   ► Ultra configuration, wish they had but they didn't. I honestly Jason I'm actually kind of pleased they

00:35:10 ◼   ► they didn't. And the reason is, is like, I feel like there's been too much, all the reviews

00:35:16 ◼   ► that I've seen, focus on the Ultra, which is not the machine most people will buy.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Right. It's the news though, but it's not the machine most people will buy.

00:35:23 ◼   ► I understand maybe from your perspective of like writing the review, maybe you'd want

00:35:27 ◼   ► the biggest, but me as a reader, I'm happy you actually got the more realistic one.

00:35:33 ◼   ► So what in doing that though, what I realized in having the M1 Max is I compared it to the

00:35:43 ◼   ► M1 Max MacBook Pro that I reviewed last fall.

00:35:47 ◼   ► I ran the same tests.

00:35:50 ◼   ► And since this is the first time we've had two non-M1 Apple Silicon Macs that ran the

00:35:58 ◼   ► same chip.

00:35:59 ◼   ► Now I know that was a lot of qualifiers, so let me phrase it a different way too.

00:36:01 ◼   ► We have a lot of M1 devices, right?

00:36:04 ◼   ► Mac Mini, MacBook Air, 13-inch MacBook Pro,

00:36:08 ◼   ► and then the iMac, iPad Pro, now the iPad Air,

00:36:13 ◼   ► they all have the M1.

00:36:14 ◼   ► And if you do tests on them, they're all the same.

00:36:18 ◼   ► Like they're all the same, because the M1 is the M1.

00:36:20 ◼   ► And Apple silicon computers don't have a lot of variance.

00:36:23 ◼   ► They're not like cranking up the clock speed on some

00:36:26 ◼   ► and cranking it down on others.

00:36:27 ◼   ► There's a little bit of variation,

00:36:29 ◼   ► especially when the things that aren't cooled

00:36:31 ◼   ► and they are running hot,

00:36:33 ◼   ► that they will crank down a little bit,

00:36:34 ◼   ► but like they're pretty much just what they are.

00:36:38 ◼   ► And I know we've talked about this before.

00:36:40 ◼   ► An M1 computer is an M1 computer,

00:36:42 ◼   ► and it's just, you buy what shape you want.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Do you want a standalone little Mac mini thing?

00:36:47 ◼   ► Do you want an iMac?

00:36:48 ◼   ► Do you want a laptop?

00:36:50 ◼   ► Which kind of laptop?

00:36:51 ◼   ► We've got two.

00:36:52 ◼   ► Do you want an iPad?

00:36:52 ◼   ► We got two of those now too.

00:36:54 ◼   ► So M1 is M1.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Now we get an M1 Mac Studio.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Okay, well we already know about the M1 Macs

00:37:01 ◼   ► from the MacBook Pro.

00:37:03 ◼   ► And what I found is that the same holds for the M1 Max.

00:37:08 ◼   ► An M1 Max is an M1 Max.

00:37:10 ◼   ► So if you are thinking of a roughly, I think I priced it,

00:37:15 ◼   ► $3,200 MacBook Pro with the same configurations

00:37:20 ◼   ► as a $2,000 Max Studio, they're the same.

00:37:26 ◼   ► One of them is a laptop with a really awesome screen.

00:37:30 ◼   ► That's why it costs more.

00:37:31 ◼   ► And one of them is this hunk of

00:37:33 ◼   ► aluminum that sits on your desk.

00:37:35 ◼   ► But in terms of performance, they're

00:37:37 ◼   ► exactly the same, especially the 16,

00:37:39 ◼   ► because the 16 inch MacBook Pro has a

00:37:41 ◼   ► little bit better cooling and stuff.

00:37:42 ◼   ► So there's a little less throttling.

00:37:43 ◼   ► But the truth is, even in most

00:37:45 ◼   ► circumstances, the 14 inch MacBook Pro

00:37:47 ◼   ► is it's an M1 Max and an M1 Max is an M1 Max.

00:37:52 ◼   ► We'll see where Apple Silicon goes in

00:37:53 ◼   ► the future. But right now, like if it,

00:37:56 ◼   ► if it has the same specs, it's the same

00:37:57 ◼   ► computer. And so there's no surprises with the Max Studio in that way. It is a

00:38:04 ◼   ► an M1 Max MacBook Pro you put on your desk. Now keep in mind that's the high-end

00:38:08 ◼   ► MacBook Pro and this is the base model Max Studio. So it's not the, like I bought

00:38:13 ◼   ► my son a MacBook Pro last week because his computer hilariously died or was

00:38:17 ◼   ► dying hilariously and I bought him the base model 14-inch MacBook Pro. That's a

00:38:22 ◼   ► that's an M1 Pro. That is not what is in the Max Studio. The Max Studio is better

00:38:26 ◼   ► than that. But if you spec it up to be the same, it's the same, that MacBook Pro and

00:38:33 ◼   ► the Mac Studio. So that's my first thought is, it's just interesting. And if you're somebody

00:38:38 ◼   ► who is a MacBook Pro person, and you're looking at the Mac Studio and comparing it to your

00:38:43 ◼   ► laptop and thinking, "Should I buy a Mac Studio?" I think it's worth saying that if you're putting

00:38:47 ◼   ► money into a MacBook Pro with all those specs, maybe you should just, if you're not going

00:38:54 ◼   ► to get the ultra configuration of the studio, maybe you should just get a monitor if you

00:38:58 ◼   ► don't have one already and dock it and you're going to get the same performance. Like that

00:39:04 ◼   ► $3,200 MacBook Pro attached to the studio display would be basically identical to the

00:39:11 ◼   ► Mac Studio. It costs more, more than $1,000 more, but it would basically be identical.

00:39:17 ◼   ► So that's one lesson that I learned is we have reinforced the M1 is an M1 is an M1,

00:39:22 ◼   ► M1 Max is an M1 Max, that's just how it is.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Now, I had an eight core Xeon 2017 iMac Pro.

00:39:30 ◼   ► So for me, like it's, it is,

00:39:36 ◼   ► there were some things that even the MacBook Air M1

00:39:38 ◼   ► was faster than my iMac Pro,

00:39:39 ◼   ► but there were some things where it wasn't.

00:39:41 ◼   ► But with iZotope, which is my high-end, you know,

00:39:44 ◼   ► audio plugins that I use all the time,

00:39:46 ◼   ► doing their Apple Silicon version,

00:39:49 ◼   ► and then running it on the M1 Max,

00:39:51 ◼   ► Like, okay, everything is a lot faster.

00:39:55 ◼   ► Final Cut exports are faster.

00:39:57 ◼   ► The SSD is twice as fast,

00:39:59 ◼   ► 'cause remember, SSDs keep getting faster.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And the iMac Pro was no slouch.

00:40:04 ◼   ► It was a $5,000 Pro-level iMac

00:40:06 ◼   ► that was meant to replace the Mac Pro.

00:40:07 ◼   ► It's no slouch, but, you know, time moves on. (laughs)

00:40:12 ◼   ► And now we're in Apple Silicon Land,

00:40:14 ◼   ► and everything is better.

00:40:16 ◼   ► So I just had that moment, you know,

00:40:18 ◼   ► everybody out there who's gotten a new computer,

00:40:20 ◼   ► which is everybody out there.

00:40:21 ◼   ► You know that feeling, right?

00:40:22 ◼   ► Where everything seems the same,

00:40:25 ◼   ► but it isn't, like everything is just smoother.

00:40:30 ◼   ► And you're like, it's different.

00:40:33 ◼   ► It's like, everything's just a little faster

00:40:35 ◼   ► and a little more responsive.

00:40:36 ◼   ► And like, that is the feeling I've had for the last week

00:40:39 ◼   ► plus that I've had this is,

00:40:41 ◼   ► I've migrated my whole system over

00:40:42 ◼   ► and I've been using it as my regular system

00:40:44 ◼   ► and it's just, everything's nicer.

00:40:47 ◼   ► Everything about it.

00:40:50 ◼   ► coming from an older iMac Pro, but yeah, it's delightful.

00:40:55 ◼   ► It really is.

00:40:56 ◼   ► But just to keep in mind for people

00:40:57 ◼   ► who are MacBook Pro people,

00:40:59 ◼   ► there's no inherent desktop-ness

00:41:02 ◼   ► that is brought by the Mac Studio.

00:41:04 ◼   ► The MacBook Pro has all that stuff too.

00:41:06 ◼   ► And the difference is you pay an extra thousand plus dollars

00:41:10 ◼   ► 'cause it's a laptop and it's got the screen,

00:41:12 ◼   ► et cetera, et cetera.

00:41:14 ◼   ► - But this is the thing that's been so intriguing to me.

00:41:16 ◼   ► Well, one, I will say I'm happy

00:41:17 ◼   ► that you're feeling those gains from the iMac,

00:41:20 ◼   ► which you would obviously.

00:41:22 ◼   ► But once, there's just some stuff that was interesting.

00:41:24 ◼   ► Like you mentioned that there is a persistent fan noise

00:41:27 ◼   ► that this machine puts out.

00:41:29 ◼   ► - It's quiet.

00:41:30 ◼   ► - The MacBook Pro does not do this.

00:41:33 ◼   ► And so like, I just, what is intriguing to me is like,

00:41:37 ◼   ► it seems like this machine was built for the Ultra, right?

00:41:42 ◼   ► But then they put the Macs in it, like the M1 Macs in it.

00:41:46 ◼   ► But then because they built this like huge fan

00:41:49 ◼   ► and the heat sink and everything for the Ultra,

00:41:52 ◼   ► the Max version also gets it

00:41:56 ◼   ► and everything that comes along with that,

00:41:59 ◼   ► but it therefore produces slightly different characteristics

00:42:02 ◼   ► for ultimately the same performance.

00:42:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a different heat sink, right?

00:42:06 ◼   ► - It's a material, but like the Max chip

00:42:09 ◼   ► does not need that heat sink to perform

00:42:11 ◼   ► because the MacBook Pro doesn't have it.

00:42:13 ◼   ► - Well, except that the way that the MacBook Pro ventilation

00:42:15 ◼   ► is designed versus the way the Max Studio ventilation

00:42:17 ◼   ► is designed, right?

00:42:18 ◼   ► Yeah, because they want an unbroken top.

00:42:20 ◼   ► And so they're pulling the air in from the bottom

00:42:23 ◼   ► and then shooting it out the back.

00:42:24 ◼   ► And you know, it is, the fan is always running.

00:42:28 ◼   ► I will say that what's nice about that is

00:42:30 ◼   ► that the sound is consistent.

00:42:31 ◼   ► I couldn't get the fan to change the sound.

00:42:33 ◼   ► The fan runs the way it runs.

00:42:35 ◼   ► The fan is also imperceptible unless you're

00:42:37 ◼   ► in an absolutely silent room.

00:42:39 ◼   ► But my room was absolutely silent at one point.

00:42:41 ◼   ► It didn't have music playing, nothing else going on.

00:42:44 ◼   ► and nobody, the Roomba wasn't going in the other room.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Like it was absolutely silent.

00:42:48 ◼   ► And I just had a moment where I went,

00:42:51 ◼   ► oh, because I could hear it.

00:42:53 ◼   ► Very quiet, very quiet.

00:42:55 ◼   ► I think you would, if you're one of those people

00:42:58 ◼   ► who's like, everything must be silent,

00:43:00 ◼   ► you know, I have to report it.

00:43:02 ◼   ► That like, there is a sound there.

00:43:04 ◼   ► The studio display also has a fan by the way,

00:43:06 ◼   ► but I can't hear that at all.

00:43:08 ◼   ► That's completely silent.

00:43:09 ◼   ► But the next studio, it has a little bit of a fan.

00:43:14 ◼   ► I don't think it's a big deal, but it was another one of those, like having a computer

00:43:19 ◼   ► on my desk, it was one of those adaptations where I'm like, "Oh, this computer sounds

00:43:25 ◼   ► like something when it's on and you have to listen carefully."

00:43:28 ◼   ► Whereas, it's not like the iMac Pro fans didn't blow all the time, but they were pointed away

00:43:33 ◼   ► from me behind the whole screen.

00:43:36 ◼   ► And so that sound didn't really reach me, I had to go around to the other side and put

00:43:40 ◼   ► my ear to it.

00:43:42 ◼   ► And this one, I didn't have to do that, I could hear it, it was very quiet and it's

00:43:46 ◼   ► subsumed by literally any other noise.

00:43:48 ◼   ► It's just a very, very low, quiet white noise sound.

00:43:53 ◼   ► But it's there, just, it's worth – I'm not complaining about it, it's much more

00:43:57 ◼   ► like a warning label because I know some people are like, "It must be absolutely silent."

00:44:01 ◼   ► Well, it's not absolutely silent, that's not the case.

00:44:04 ◼   ► And I'm not one of these people either who cares about that kind of stuff.

00:44:08 ◼   ► My kind of thing I'm pointing out is just I find it really interesting that the Mac

00:44:13 ◼   ► Studio and the MacBook Pro have basically the same performance with the same guts in

00:44:19 ◼   ► the Mac's version, but they are just built very differently.

00:44:23 ◼   ► They are.

00:44:24 ◼   ► They are.

00:44:25 ◼   ► And it's just really intriguing to me.

00:44:26 ◼   ► It's like a thing that it will do.

00:44:28 ◼   ► And the Mac Studio is cheaper.

00:44:29 ◼   ► Again, I want to point that out, because I think this goes into that other thought, which

00:44:33 ◼   ► is the thing that I have definitely gone back and forth on, which is do I want to buy a

00:44:38 ◼   ► Mac Studio or do I really want to buy a MacBook Pro because I do sometimes need

00:44:41 ◼   ► a Mac laptop and attach it and that's when I configured out the MacBook Pro

00:44:46 ◼   ► for $1,200 more or something. And what I realized was personally everybody is

00:44:54 ◼   ► different here. What I realized was I would rather have a desktop Mac that

00:45:01 ◼   ► meets my needs for absolute day-to-day use and then spend $9.99 on a MacBook Air

00:45:07 ◼   ► I can travel with that is not gonna be as powerful,

00:45:11 ◼   ► but that's fine, rather than spending, you know,

00:45:16 ◼   ► more than $3,000 on a laptop.

00:45:18 ◼   ► And I just, that's what I decided.

00:45:22 ◼   ► And I know that, 'cause like literally,

00:45:23 ◼   ► you add the MacBook Air and the Mac Studio together,

00:45:25 ◼   ► it's about the cost of the laptop.

00:45:26 ◼   ► So I could unify, but you know,

00:45:29 ◼   ► then I can get a new MacBook Air down the road

00:45:32 ◼   ► and Mac Studio will still be here.

00:45:33 ◼   ► And I don't, they're not yoked together in any way.

00:45:36 ◼   ► I just decided that I would rather have that lighter,

00:45:40 ◼   ► lower cost laptop experience for when I travel

00:45:43 ◼   ► and not have it be a no compromises,

00:45:46 ◼   ► I'm bringing my whole setup with me.

00:45:48 ◼   ► But everybody's gonna be different.

00:45:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, and of course, right?

00:45:51 ◼   ► Like the MacBook Pro is partly more expensive

00:45:54 ◼   ► because it has a display, et cetera, et cetera.

00:45:56 ◼   ► But you would need to have a display for the Mac Studio.

00:46:01 ◼   ► But then if you were gonna be using the MacBook Pro

00:46:03 ◼   ► on a desk, you would also want a display for that,

00:46:05 ◼   ► which then makes it even more expensive, right?

00:46:08 ◼   ► - Well, that's basically my argument is,

00:46:11 ◼   ► I'm gonna have a 27 inch display on my desk.

00:46:14 ◼   ► So the question is, do I attach a Mac Studio to it

00:46:17 ◼   ► or do I attach a MacBook Pro to it?

00:46:19 ◼   ► And everybody's gonna be different.

00:46:21 ◼   ► I decided that I would rather have the thin and light

00:46:25 ◼   ► little laptop to take with me

00:46:28 ◼   ► and have that power on my desk rather than the other option,

00:46:31 ◼   ► which is to have the laptop that does it all,

00:46:33 ◼   ► that lives most of the time plugged in.

00:46:36 ◼   ► But it was a close call, honestly,

00:46:41 ◼   ► but I think in the end, I'm just happier this way.

00:46:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have no idea what my future lies at the moment

00:46:49 ◼   ► with my recording setup.

00:46:50 ◼   ► I know now for my main working setup,

00:46:54 ◼   ► it's gonna be exactly what I have now

00:46:57 ◼   ► just with a different monitor, right?

00:46:58 ◼   ► So instead of having the LG display that I have,

00:47:00 ◼   ► I'm gonna have the Apple Studio display.

00:47:02 ◼   ► But there was always a question of like what happens on the desk that I'm at right now

00:47:06 ◼   ► where I have the M1 iMac and I have like just a Dell display on the side just because I

00:47:13 ◼   ► need a bit more screen space.

00:47:15 ◼   ► And you know I have no idea what it's going to look like for me.

00:47:17 ◼   ► You know I was wondering would it be the Mac studio but I don't think so.

00:47:22 ◼   ► But then like would I just use, should I just use my MacBook Pro?

00:47:24 ◼   ► Should I just move it from machine to machine, like from desk to desk?

00:47:28 ◼   ► one inside of my like sound isolated area where I record like do it and just

00:47:33 ◼   ► have two displays like I have no idea right now what I'm gonna do because my

00:47:37 ◼   ► original thought was oh I'll just put an iMac Pro in here but and maybe I wait

00:47:41 ◼   ► right like maybe I just keep running this iMac for like another year which it

00:47:45 ◼   ► definitely could do my only problem is every time like I travel I realize just

00:47:51 ◼   ► how much quicker my MacBook Pro is doing the tasks that I'm doing every day when

00:47:57 ◼   ► when I'm here on my M1 machine.

00:47:59 ◼   ► And there it is, I'm noticing significant differences

00:48:02 ◼   ► in some of the tasks that I'm performing now,

00:48:05 ◼   ► just from a time perspective that I miss

00:48:07 ◼   ► when I'm doing on my M1.

00:48:09 ◼   ► But yeah, so last thing I wanted to ask you

00:48:12 ◼   ► about the Mac Studio is, was this a hard computer to review?

00:48:15 ◼   ► - I think because I didn't get the Ultra,

00:48:21 ◼   ► it was not as hard.

00:48:24 ◼   ► In fact, I mean, my display review is longer

00:48:27 ◼   ► than my Mac Studio review.

00:48:29 ◼   ► I did more tests, but I always do tests.

00:48:31 ◼   ► - The fact that the display review was longer

00:48:33 ◼   ► was what made me think of this question.

00:48:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I would say it wasn't harder to review

00:48:39 ◼   ► because it was completely full of things we knew

00:48:41 ◼   ► in terms of performance.

00:48:44 ◼   ► So that is sometimes a harder thing, right?

00:48:46 ◼   ► 'Cause you need to quantify performance.

00:48:48 ◼   ► And instead I really was able to say,

00:48:50 ◼   ► it's a MacBook Pro and one of Macs, right?

00:48:52 ◼   ► They're the same, there's no surprises here.

00:48:55 ◼   ► And in the end then, I mean,

00:48:57 ◼   ► 'cause these reviews aren't easy to do,

00:48:58 ◼   ► but in the end then it becomes

00:49:00 ◼   ► like a couple of different essays.

00:49:02 ◼   ► Like it's an essay about using all in one

00:49:05 ◼   ► versus using a modular computer

00:49:08 ◼   ► and Apple's history with that.

00:49:09 ◼   ► And I wrote that review

00:49:11 ◼   ► and I also wrote a piece for Macworld about it

00:49:13 ◼   ► and I wrote a piece for the Verge about it.

00:49:15 ◼   ► So I like, I wrote a lot of words about Apple's history

00:49:18 ◼   ► with modular Macs and then not making them

00:49:21 ◼   ► and with the iMac becoming kind of like the replacement

00:49:23 ◼   ► for modular Macs.

00:49:25 ◼   ► So another kind of essay about that.

00:49:28 ◼   ► And then an essay about the choices that you make

00:49:33 ◼   ► in terms of a laptop versus a desktop.

00:49:35 ◼   ► And do you hook a laptop up to the external display

00:49:39 ◼   ► instead of the Mac studio?

00:49:40 ◼   ► And like that's part of a, like, so in the end,

00:49:45 ◼   ► I would say it wasn't hard to write the review

00:49:47 ◼   ► because it was, although this product was unexpected,

00:49:52 ◼   ► its characteristics are not surprises, right?

00:49:57 ◼   ► And so that changes it.

00:49:58 ◼   ► It ends up being more about form over function

00:50:01 ◼   ► and the design choices for the Mac Studio

00:50:05 ◼   ► and what it means to have it on your desk

00:50:08 ◼   ► instead of in an all-in-one, stuff like that.

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00:52:17 ◼   ► So now we turn our attention then to the Apple Studio display, 27 inch display.

00:52:24 ◼   ► What are your, I want to get kind of like top level stuff, the looks, the stand, you

00:52:29 ◼   ► know the model you got is the regular model, right?

00:52:33 ◼   ► What are your overall thoughts?

00:52:34 ◼   ► I got nano texture, but yes, it's a standard stand.

00:52:37 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:52:38 ◼   ► Did you?

00:52:39 ◼   ► I'm sorry, but.

00:52:41 ◼   ► - I mean, I feel like I've already written

00:52:42 ◼   ► about nanotexture, it is what it is.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I wouldn't buy it, but then again,

00:52:45 ◼   ► I used to work in an office

00:52:46 ◼   ► where I had to have a window behind me

00:52:48 ◼   ► and I would have desperately wanted it for that office,

00:52:52 ◼   ► but my current office, I'm never gonna,

00:52:54 ◼   ► I don't have to put the window behind me,

00:52:55 ◼   ► so it's unnecessary, but it's nice.

00:52:58 ◼   ► I mean, it is your glare-free option

00:53:02 ◼   ► if you are in a place with glare,

00:53:03 ◼   ► but otherwise it's the standard,

00:53:05 ◼   ► you know, unadjustable stand kind of thing.

00:53:08 ◼   ► And I tried not to get too fussy about it

00:53:12 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like the people who listen to this show

00:53:14 ◼   ► already know the story here,

00:53:16 ◼   ► but like the story here is it's an Apple display.

00:53:18 ◼   ► It is not an LG display.

00:53:20 ◼   ► The panel is very similar to the most recent 5K iMac panel

00:53:25 ◼   ► that's also the LG Ultrafine panel.

00:53:26 ◼   ► It's not the same.

00:53:27 ◼   ► I asked about that and because it's 600 nits,

00:53:32 ◼   ► it's like, it's not the same.

00:53:34 ◼   ► It's a brighter panel than that, but it looks very familiar.

00:53:38 ◼   ► Like in front of me, I couldn't tell the difference

00:53:41 ◼   ► between this and the iMac 5K and then the iMac Pro panels

00:53:44 ◼   ► that I had in front of me all this time.

00:53:46 ◼   ► I think the iMac 5K I originally had

00:53:48 ◼   ► didn't have the wide color gamut,

00:53:49 ◼   ► but the iMac Pro panel and this panel,

00:53:51 ◼   ► like it feels exactly the same.

00:53:54 ◼   ► The thing that the people like Upgradients will understand

00:53:58 ◼   ► is LG's monitor is not an Apple monitor, right?

00:54:02 ◼   ► It's not, it's okay, but this is fully Apple look and feel.

00:54:07 ◼   ► And I know it's like, there's no logo on it.

00:54:10 ◼   ► The black bezels are much thinner than the Nymax bezels

00:54:14 ◼   ► and they look really good.

00:54:17 ◼   ► It has the aluminum foot.

00:54:18 ◼   ► So it like, it is full on Apple design language

00:54:21 ◼   ► and not, it feels good.

00:54:24 ◼   ► It's not junky in any way.

00:54:27 ◼   ► And like, part of the context of some reviews

00:54:31 ◼   ► of this display is there are other displays.

00:54:36 ◼   ► And it's true, however, there aren't other displays

00:54:39 ◼   ► other than the ultra fine that really hit the resolution

00:54:42 ◼   ► that Apple wants for the Mac.

00:54:43 ◼   ► It turns out, turns out that Apple abandoning

00:54:48 ◼   ► the display market did not create a great influx

00:54:51 ◼   ► of displays to serve Mac users

00:54:53 ◼   ► the way they chose to be served.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Didn't happen.

00:54:56 ◼   ► It's just, we all know that.

00:54:57 ◼   ► And so I think it's pretty rich to review this monitor

00:55:01 ◼   ► and say there are other displays.

00:55:03 ◼   ► 'cause the answer is really there are other display,

00:55:06 ◼   ► one, if you want what Apple wants from a display,

00:55:10 ◼   ► which is something like that 27-inch iMac,

00:55:13 ◼   ► not a curved 4K 30-inch display

00:55:16 ◼   ► that's way lower resolution than Apple would prefer

00:55:19 ◼   ► you use on a Mac.

00:55:20 ◼   ► And so you have always had those options,

00:55:23 ◼   ► but for the people who really wanted the Apple-like thing,

00:55:26 ◼   ► there was just the LG Ultrafine.

00:55:27 ◼   ► And this is much nicer than that in a lot of ways.

00:55:31 ◼   ► And so that's, I think it's important for some people.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Obviously it's not for others, but you can turn around

00:55:39 ◼   ► and bump into a podcast where the hosts are complaining

00:55:41 ◼   ► about the LG Ultrafine display and have been for years now.

00:55:46 ◼   ► And it's not that it is terrible,

00:55:48 ◼   ► but it's been the only option and there are things about it

00:55:51 ◼   ► that would make people pine for what would Apple do

00:55:53 ◼   ► if they made this display?

00:55:55 ◼   ► And here's your answer.

00:55:57 ◼   ► It's way more expensive, but it's nicer.

00:56:00 ◼   ► And are we surprised that that's the ultimate answer?

00:56:03 ◼   ► - I liked what Neil A. Patel said in his review,

00:56:06 ◼   ► which was kind of like,

00:56:08 ◼   ► there are people that these specific things

00:56:11 ◼   ► mean that this monitor is worth it.

00:56:13 ◼   ► And you kind of know you are one of those people already.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Like the idea of the resolution being just right

00:56:18 ◼   ► and that kind of stuff is like,

00:56:20 ◼   ► that really is a thing that is important to some people.

00:56:24 ◼   ► Like that, I am, I like that,

00:56:26 ◼   ► but I'm not one of those people.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Like I've used and I've been using an OG

00:56:30 ◼   ► display for I don't know best part of two years and I really like the display.

00:56:34 ◼   ► The problem I have is the unreliability of plugging the thing in and it doing

00:56:40 ◼   ► what I want and I do not expect to have this issue come three weeks from now or

00:56:47 ◼   ► whatever when I get mine right. My expectation is I will just plug it in

00:56:51 ◼   ► and it does exactly what I'm expecting it to do every single time. Where at the

00:56:54 ◼   ► moment it doesn't and it requires a lot of plugging and unplugging to get it to

00:56:58 ◼   ► work properly, you know?

00:56:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I think that's it.

00:57:01 ◼   ► This is, and again, you know, look,

00:57:04 ◼   ► there are a lot of competition out there,

00:57:05 ◼   ► but it is, and I know we've talked about Apple's

00:57:09 ◼   ► whole desire of like, how many first party things

00:57:11 ◼   ► can we make?

00:57:12 ◼   ► 'Cause we get you in the Apple store,

00:57:13 ◼   ► and then we upsell you on all these other things,

00:57:14 ◼   ► and they've all got Apple product margins,

00:57:16 ◼   ► and Apple makes a lot of money,

00:57:17 ◼   ► and there's a reason Apple makes a lot of money.

00:57:19 ◼   ► They do this sort of thing.

00:57:20 ◼   ► That said, there is also value in getting the Apple thing,

00:57:25 ◼   ► that Apple is built for its products.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Like there are people trying to use this with PCs and stuff

00:57:30 ◼   ► and yeah, it will work or some aspects of it will work.

00:57:34 ◼   ► But like, this is a display made by Apple

00:57:38 ◼   ► to be connected to Macs.

00:57:41 ◼   ► And that has value to a lot of people,

00:57:45 ◼   ► not necessarily to everyone.

00:57:46 ◼   ► Again, I have a friend, a friend of the show,

00:57:49 ◼   ► Scott McNulty, who's been on before.

00:57:51 ◼   ► - Hi Scott.

00:57:52 ◼   ► - Scott has a 5K iMac and a big curved fancy display.

00:57:57 ◼   ► And the 5K iMac, he doesn't even use, it's off on the side

00:58:00 ◼   ► 'cause he uses the big curve fancy display.

00:58:02 ◼   ► And he bought a Mac studio 'cause he's like,

00:58:04 ◼   ► "All right, I can just hook it directly

00:58:06 ◼   ► to my big fancy display."

00:58:07 ◼   ► Right? Great, right?

00:58:09 ◼   ► Like if you have one of those displays and you like it,

00:58:12 ◼   ► you know, great.

00:58:13 ◼   ► But there is definitely an audience for,

00:58:16 ◼   ► "Oh, it's just a 27 inch display

00:58:18 ◼   ► like the ones we're familiar with."

00:58:19 ◼   ► And it's from Apple and it has been built to work

00:58:21 ◼   ► with all of Apple's products.

00:58:23 ◼   ► And they're, you know,

00:58:25 ◼   ► everybody's gonna have a different idea

00:58:27 ◼   ► of the value of that, but I can feel it

00:58:30 ◼   ► when it wasn't there, that there was a lot of feeling

00:58:33 ◼   ► of like, "Mm, wow, I have to compromise somewhere."

00:58:37 ◼   ► It would be a lot easier if I could spend

00:58:39 ◼   ► a little more money and just get an Apple display

00:58:42 ◼   ► that does it, 'cause it turns out only Apple

00:58:45 ◼   ► has our best interests at heart.

00:58:46 ◼   ► I mean, they also wanna sell us something

00:58:48 ◼   ► for a lot of money, but you get what I'm saying?

00:58:51 ◼   ► The rest of the display market is not like,

00:58:53 ◼   ► "But what about the Mac?"

00:58:54 ◼   ► They're just not.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Like, or if they are, they're doing it to the minimum amount,

00:58:59 ◼   ► like, because they're thinking about,

00:59:00 ◼   ► but what about gamers?

00:59:01 ◼   ► And what about people in offices with PCs?

00:59:04 ◼   ► And then, oh yeah, we should make sure,

00:59:05 ◼   ► does the Mac work with this?

00:59:06 ◼   ► It does great.

00:59:07 ◼   ► And that's fine, but it's really nice to have something

00:59:11 ◼   ► that is built for us.

00:59:13 ◼   ► It's made for us.

00:59:15 ◼   ► And when Apple does a display, that's what it is.

00:59:18 ◼   ► And that's why it costs more, but it's good to have it,

00:59:21 ◼   ► and I'm glad it exists.

00:59:23 ◼   ► So speaking of features for the Mac,

00:59:27 ◼   ► there's been quite a lot of brouhaha about the webcam

00:59:30 ◼   ► and maybe partly because of some of the decisions

00:59:35 ◼   ► that Apple's made around making it center stage,

00:59:37 ◼   ► that kind of stuff.

00:59:37 ◼   ► So there's been lots of reviews published by people

00:59:40 ◼   ► all over the place and there's been vastly varying results

00:59:44 ◼   ► on people's opinions of the quality of the webcam

00:59:47 ◼   ► inside of this display.

00:59:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, hell yeah.

00:59:50 ◼   ► - You seem to be pretty happy.

00:59:52 ◼   ► So not to tell tales out of school,

00:59:55 ◼   ► but like embargoed reviewers talk sometimes.

00:59:58 ◼   ► You see something weird and you're like,

00:59:59 ◼   ► "Okay, what did you see?"

01:00:00 ◼   ► - You wanna make sure you're seeing the same thing, right?

01:00:02 ◼   ► So you're not way off.

01:00:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I don't know if we're supposed to do that or not,

01:00:06 ◼   ► but it happens, right?

01:00:07 ◼   ► There's some talk that happens in the back channel.

01:00:10 ◼   ► And I had somebody back channel me and say,

01:00:14 ◼   ► "Are you seeing bad image quality with the studio display?"

01:00:17 ◼   ► And so here's the thing, I got the heads up about it.

01:00:21 ◼   ► If I had wanted to be running with the pack,

01:00:24 ◼   ► I could have put in verbiage about

01:00:27 ◼   ► questionable image quality, even if I didn't see it,

01:00:29 ◼   ► but I didn't see it.

01:00:32 ◼   ► And that 90 minute video I did with Dan Moore

01:00:35 ◼   ► in the day the embargo dropped is entirely, my side of it,

01:00:39 ◼   ► shot with the studio display camera.

01:00:42 ◼   ► And it looks fine.

01:00:44 ◼   ► So if I can't duplicate what they're seeing,

01:00:48 ◼   ► I can't report it.

01:00:50 ◼   ► I can't report what, because the cool kids saw it

01:00:54 ◼   ► and I didn't see it.

01:00:55 ◼   ► So there's a few options here.

01:00:57 ◼   ► One is hardware variants and I just got a good panel

01:01:01 ◼   ► or I got a good camera.

01:01:02 ◼   ► I don't think that's it.

01:01:04 ◼   ► Software variants, we all checked our firmware,

01:01:06 ◼   ► it's the same.

01:01:06 ◼   ► Okay, well, what is it?

01:01:08 ◼   ► I think this is a software problem.

01:01:13 ◼   ► I think it's, and Apple said that there's a bug

01:01:15 ◼   ► that they're fixing.

01:01:16 ◼   ► We'll see if that really fixes it or not,

01:01:18 ◼   ► but they did a little statement of like,

01:01:21 ◼   ► oh no, no, no, no, no.

01:01:22 ◼   ► It'll be fine folks, it'll be fine

01:01:24 ◼   ► just trying to do some damage control there.

01:01:26 ◼   ► We'll see if it actually is fine.

01:01:29 ◼   ► But I think two things are happening.

01:01:33 ◼   ► I think one is, I think it behaves differently

01:01:35 ◼   ► in different lighting conditions.

01:01:36 ◼   ► And I think that there are certain lighting conditions

01:01:37 ◼   ► that are better and certain that are worse.

01:01:39 ◼   ► And that is lighting and background lighting and foreground.

01:01:42 ◼   ► It may even be face detection that like my face is better

01:01:46 ◼   ► at being detected, I don't know.

01:01:51 ◼   ► But my spider sense is tingling,

01:01:55 ◼   ► that there's a problem going on in certain circumstances

01:02:00 ◼   ► and that I didn't have those circumstances.

01:02:02 ◼   ► Now, I'll be honest, I did not turn off all my lights

01:02:06 ◼   ► and close my blinds

01:02:07 ◼   ► and get in the worst situation possible.

01:02:09 ◼   ► I just use it at my desk

01:02:10 ◼   ► like I use every webcam that I've ever used

01:02:13 ◼   ► and compared it and it seemed fun.

01:02:16 ◼   ► So I think that's one of the things that's going on here.

01:02:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause I watched the video that you made.

01:02:19 ◼   ► - Looks fine, right?

01:02:20 ◼   ► - Your image is soft, but fine.

01:02:22 ◼   ► - Sure, it's fine.

01:02:23 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:02:24 ◼   ► - So that's one thing that I think is happening

01:02:27 ◼   ► and that is real.

01:02:27 ◼   ► And even though I didn't have much of an experience with it,

01:02:30 ◼   ► I believe the other reviewers that it's an issue.

01:02:33 ◼   ► The other part is context.

01:02:35 ◼   ► And that is trickier

01:02:37 ◼   ► 'cause that's about the eye of the beholder.

01:02:39 ◼   ► That is about the person doing the review.

01:02:42 ◼   ► My context is the iMac Pro webcam, which is a 1080 webcam.

01:02:50 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:02:52 ◼   ► And also as an iPad Pro user who has been using center stage

01:02:57 ◼   ► since it came out for weekly Zoom calls with Lauren's family

01:03:02 ◼   ► and weekly FaceTime calls with my mom.

01:03:06 ◼   ► So I've seen the same center stage camera

01:03:10 ◼   ► and center stage software at work on the iPad a lot.

01:03:13 ◼   ► So, first off, the center stage camera is kind of grainy

01:03:17 ◼   ► in certain circumstances.

01:03:19 ◼   ► It's a byproduct of the fact that they are taking

01:03:22 ◼   ► a big 12 megapixel image and they're cropping

01:03:24 ◼   ► and de-skewing it in order to make it seem like

01:03:27 ◼   ► there's the ghost camera man back there shooting you.

01:03:30 ◼   ► It's not always a great picture.

01:03:32 ◼   ► That's true.

01:03:33 ◼   ► That's been true all along.

01:03:36 ◼   ► And maybe I'm just so used to what a center stage camera

01:03:39 ◼   ► looks like that I'm not taken aback like some people are. And second is, what are you comparing

01:03:45 ◼   ► it to? I'm comparing it, in terms of context, I'm comparing it to the center stage camera.

01:03:49 ◼   ► I think a lot of them are comparing it to 4K webcams that are static, or I saw some

01:03:54 ◼   ► pictures that were still photos taken with the front and back cameras of iPhones. It's

01:03:59 ◼   ► like, well, okay, of course it's not better than that. But how does it compare? And I

01:04:06 ◼   ► put it up against center stage on my iPad Pro and I was like, I don't know, I think

01:04:09 ◼   ► that the studio display camera actually looks better than the center stage camera on my

01:04:13 ◼   ► iPad Pro in the same position. I think the iPad Pro is zoomed in a lot more and so it's

01:04:17 ◼   ► even more grainy, whereas the studio display, I think that the algorithm is a little different

01:04:22 ◼   ► and it's a little wider out. So, I don't know, my guess is you've got people who are familiar

01:04:30 ◼   ► with higher quality image capturing devices, some of which are webcams and some of which

01:04:35 ◼   ► or not, looking at a possibly degraded and certain lighting camera and saying, "This

01:04:41 ◼   ► camera is garbage." Whereas I have familiarity with center stage and I'm in a well-lit environment

01:04:46 ◼   ► and I look at it and go, "Yeah, that's exactly what I expected. It's center stage." And center

01:04:51 ◼   ► stage has other issues, right? It doesn't quite center you aggressively enough in my

01:04:58 ◼   ► opinion and I know that they're probably trying to prevent it from being this really queasy,

01:05:02 ◼   ► Like as we bob and move, the camera is endlessly tracking you because that would be unpleasant,

01:05:08 ◼   ► but I know there's an art to it and I feel like it leaves me, as the only person in the

01:05:13 ◼   ► frame, it leaves me off-center for a long time before figuring out that I'm not centered

01:05:20 ◼   ► and centering me and I think that that is a center stage problem they need to fix.

01:05:23 ◼   ► Do you think this could be, because I mean, my understanding is this is being powered

01:05:27 ◼   ► by the A13 chip which is found inside of the machine,

01:05:30 ◼   ► right, inside of the display.

01:05:32 ◼   ► - I assume so, I assume, we don't know,

01:05:36 ◼   ► but I assume what's happening is the A13

01:05:39 ◼   ► is doing all of this processing

01:05:41 ◼   ► and then just sending the picture out to the Mac.

01:05:43 ◼   ► And that's partially because there are Macs

01:05:45 ◼   ► that are compatible with this that are not Apple Silicon.

01:05:50 ◼   ► And so they wouldn't be able to process it

01:05:52 ◼   ► as well theoretically as the A13.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Although I did think that one option,

01:05:57 ◼   ► if you wanna make the quality better,

01:05:59 ◼   ► is to check and see if you have a superior chip

01:06:01 ◼   ► on the outboard side and just send it there

01:06:05 ◼   ► and have that doing it.

01:06:06 ◼   ► But they'd have to write software for it.

01:06:07 ◼   ► But it may be that iOS running inside the A13

01:06:11 ◼   ► in this monitor, 'cause it does run a version of iOS,

01:06:14 ◼   ► is doing it because they didn't have to write extra software

01:06:16 ◼   ► for the Mac to do it then.

01:06:17 ◼   ► Maybe that's the case, I don't know.

01:06:19 ◼   ► - But 'cause maybe the A13 is not powerful enough,

01:06:23 ◼   ► or it's just not as powerful as the other processes

01:06:26 ◼   ► that are running center stage on the devices.

01:06:28 ◼   ► - I don't know.

01:06:29 ◼   ► I think if you compare it to center stage on the iPad,

01:06:31 ◼   ► my opinion is that it's no different

01:06:33 ◼   ► than center stage on the iPad.

01:06:34 ◼   ► I don't think that's it.

01:06:36 ◼   ► I don't think it's like the M1 versus the A13

01:06:39 ◼   ► and it's inferior.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Maybe in certain circumstances,

01:06:42 ◼   ► the problem is maybe in certain circumstances it is

01:06:44 ◼   ► and I can't duplicate all the circumstances.

01:06:47 ◼   ► But the short version is, is there an issue with the webcams?

01:06:50 ◼   ► Like, I don't know.

01:06:51 ◼   ► Depends on your context.

01:06:53 ◼   ► depends on what you're expecting by it.

01:06:55 ◼   ► Apple says that they're gonna make software changes to it.

01:06:57 ◼   ► I wouldn't count on that.

01:06:59 ◼   ► If you wanna hold off and see what happens,

01:07:01 ◼   ► by all means do so.

01:07:03 ◼   ► In my circumstance, it's not been an issue.

01:07:07 ◼   ► And I am not, I mean, like if I want a really good webcam,

01:07:12 ◼   ► I will use a really good webcam.

01:07:16 ◼   ► And I think at the root of the complaints about it

01:07:18 ◼   ► that some reviewers have had is they,

01:07:21 ◼   ► what they want is a 4K static,

01:07:24 ◼   ► no panning and zooming center stage webcam

01:07:27 ◼   ► like they consider the state of the art

01:07:29 ◼   ► on other of webcams today, instead of what Apple did.

01:07:32 ◼   ► And I think, I don't think I agree

01:07:35 ◼   ► 'cause I really like center stage

01:07:36 ◼   ► and I think that it is appropriate for a product like this

01:07:39 ◼   ► because you are moving around.

01:07:40 ◼   ► I mean, some people aren't, some people are.

01:07:43 ◼   ► I am moving around enough that I really like the idea

01:07:46 ◼   ► that this thing that's sitting on my desk can track me

01:07:49 ◼   ► as I'm talking to somebody, I think that's great.

01:07:51 ◼   ► Other people would say, well, no,

01:07:53 ◼   ► Apple has gotten too high on its center stage product.

01:07:57 ◼   ► And even though it doesn't look as good,

01:07:59 ◼   ► it's got this zooming feature that I don't care about.

01:08:02 ◼   ► And what I really want is a still really nice 4K webcam.

01:08:06 ◼   ► I think that's a legitimate argument to make,

01:08:08 ◼   ► even though I'm not sure I agree with it.

01:08:11 ◼   ► So yeah, and we'll see, there are bugs.

01:08:13 ◼   ► There are lots of bugs.

01:08:14 ◼   ► They're white listing video conferencing apps.

01:08:17 ◼   ► It's very clear that they put something in macOS

01:08:19 ◼   ► that basically says if it's these apps, turn it on.

01:08:22 ◼   ► Which they sort of did an iPad too, right?

01:08:25 ◼   ► Because the developers didn't know about this.

01:08:28 ◼   ► I'm sure there will be an API at some point.

01:08:31 ◼   ► You can control it with center stage and turn it on and off,

01:08:34 ◼   ► but there's very weird behavior there too.

01:08:36 ◼   ► I opened Photo Booth, an app that has not been touched

01:08:39 ◼   ► by an Apple engineer in who knows how long.

01:08:41 ◼   ► And it gave me this ridiculous, grainy, super close cropped,

01:08:46 ◼   ► way too high, like top of my head

01:08:49 ◼   ► and the wall behind me shot.

01:08:51 ◼   ► That is not the shot you get when you go to control center

01:08:55 ◼   ► and turn off center stage in Zoom.

01:08:58 ◼   ► That said, when you do go to control center

01:09:00 ◼   ► and turn off center stage in something like Zoom,

01:09:02 ◼   ► you do get a weirdly framed shot that is way too high up.

01:09:07 ◼   ► And it's clearly not what you actually would get

01:09:10 ◼   ► because it's actually cutting off stuff that was visible

01:09:12 ◼   ► in the center stage version.

01:09:13 ◼   ► That's a little lower down.

01:09:15 ◼   ► And I don't know why they do it that way.

01:09:18 ◼   ► And it's really dumb and you can't set it.

01:09:20 ◼   ► So when you turn center stage off,

01:09:22 ◼   ► you have to like tilt your monitor down

01:09:24 ◼   ► because it's too high, which I don't get that.

01:09:29 ◼   ► So I think that there are lots of issues with the camera,

01:09:32 ◼   ► but not the ones that the other people

01:09:34 ◼   ► are complaining about.

01:09:35 ◼   ► - Speaking about high, how would you get on

01:09:38 ◼   ► with the stand on this monitor if it was yours?

01:09:41 ◼   ► - I mean, I have an adjustable desk so I can survive.

01:09:44 ◼   ► I would change the height of everything else,

01:09:47 ◼   ► change the height of my keyboard tray

01:09:49 ◼   ► and change the height of my desk

01:09:50 ◼   ► and I would get it to work.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I don't think, I think that a lot of people

01:09:54 ◼   ► would find that it's too low.

01:09:56 ◼   ► I, again, places where I'm out of line

01:10:01 ◼   ► with a lot of other reviewers,

01:10:03 ◼   ► like this is an example where I know why Apple did it

01:10:08 ◼   ► and I appreciate that the adjustable version

01:10:10 ◼   ► is probably a very well engineered piece of kit.

01:10:14 ◼   ► That said, you should not have to pay,

01:10:18 ◼   ► I would say you should not have to pay extra

01:10:22 ◼   ► for good ergonomics that a good display

01:10:25 ◼   ► should be adjustable.

01:10:28 ◼   ► And that you certainly shouldn't have to pay $400

01:10:33 ◼   ► for it to be adjustable.

01:10:35 ◼   ► I think it's ridiculous.

01:10:36 ◼   ► So boo.

01:10:38 ◼   ► - I'll let you know just how ridiculous it is soon.

01:10:43 ◼   ► When mine--

01:10:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just, I don't like,

01:10:45 ◼   ► when the iMac came out, the M1 iMac,

01:10:47 ◼   ► I asked Apple, "Why is this not adjustable?"

01:10:49 ◼   ► And they said, "Blah, blah, blah, we did ergonomics."

01:10:51 ◼   ► - Well, it was on the show, right?

01:10:52 ◼   ► They told us that they tested it out.

01:10:55 ◼   ► - We did ergonomics and this is what our experts said

01:10:57 ◼   ► was the right height.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And I'm like, I don't know,

01:11:00 ◼   ► everybody I know puts these things on books or stands.

01:11:04 ◼   ► - I have mine on a stand, I have a stand for my iMac

01:11:06 ◼   ► that I'm looking at right now.

01:11:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I don't know.

01:11:10 ◼   ► I just, I believe as a matter of principle

01:11:15 ◼   ► that ergonomics is not a $400 upsell.

01:11:19 ◼   ► I think you should make an ergonomic display.

01:11:22 ◼   ► I think that ergonomics should be figured into it.

01:11:24 ◼   ► - I do too.

01:11:25 ◼   ► - And if you do need to do it as an upsell,

01:11:29 ◼   ► you should not make it as ludicrous a price

01:11:33 ◼   ► as that upsell is.

01:11:34 ◼   ► $400 for a thing to let it be a couple inches higher.

01:11:39 ◼   ► Like, come on.

01:11:40 ◼   ► - It's the problem that this is like Apple

01:11:43 ◼   ► kind of designing itself into a corner.

01:11:45 ◼   ► Like, I think they refuse to make a design

01:11:49 ◼   ► like other companies because the other companies,

01:11:52 ◼   ► they make things that aren't as attractive.

01:11:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, only the best.

01:11:55 ◼   ► They want a perfect, beautiful, well engineered

01:11:59 ◼   ► lifting display mount.

01:12:02 ◼   ► They do, and that's what they made.

01:12:04 ◼   ► and it required them to charge $400 for it.

01:12:06 ◼   ► And I get it, but it's very frustrating to me.

01:12:11 ◼   ► So you could also get the VESA mount version,

01:12:13 ◼   ► which doesn't cost any extra,

01:12:15 ◼   ► and then put it on a stand or arm of your choice

01:12:17 ◼   ► at the height that you want, and it's adjustable.

01:12:19 ◼   ► So that's the other way to go.

01:12:20 ◼   ► - And I'm pleased that they offer that though too, right?

01:12:22 ◼   ► Because it's like, well, then you can get it much cheaper

01:12:25 ◼   ► as an option and or you may already have the thing

01:12:28 ◼   ► like you do, right?

01:12:29 ◼   ► And like I have VESA arms that I was using before,

01:12:32 ◼   ► I have a VESA I'm using with the Dell monitor

01:12:34 ◼   ► that I'm using. If I wanted to, I could have gone with the VESA mount for the

01:12:39 ◼   ► studio display, but I was happy to pay the extra because I wanted that. I wanted

01:12:45 ◼   ► Apple's adjustable one because I think it looks nice and I want to have a little

01:12:49 ◼   ► bit of a better experience, a more free experience than the my VESA arms

01:12:54 ◼   ► allow for me. So we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Is there enough I/O on this, on the

01:13:00 ◼   ► studio display do you think?

01:13:02 ◼   ► - I think it's a display and not an iMac.

01:13:04 ◼   ► I will admit that I had those thoughts, which is,

01:13:08 ◼   ► you know, it's got four ports on the back,

01:13:09 ◼   ► but there's just the upstream Thunderbolt

01:13:11 ◼   ► and then it's three USB-C.

01:13:13 ◼   ► - I do wish they were Thunderbolt, not USB-C.

01:13:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I get why they maybe can't be right now,

01:13:20 ◼   ► but I'm okay with it.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Clearly this is a room for improvement.

01:13:27 ◼   ► Like I said, I feel like most of the stuff

01:13:30 ◼   ► you're gonna attach to your computer

01:13:31 ◼   ► is gonna be attached to your computer.

01:13:33 ◼   ► But if you're using this with a laptop,

01:13:35 ◼   ► you're gonna wanna hang IO off the back.

01:13:38 ◼   ► And this precludes you hanging Thunderbolt off the back.

01:13:42 ◼   ► It only is gonna be USB-C off of the back of this thing.

01:13:46 ◼   ► So if you have a situation where you want to

01:13:49 ◼   ► have a one cable attach from a MacBook Pro to this display,

01:13:54 ◼   ► and you've got a Thunderbolt dock

01:13:55 ◼   ► or a Thunderbolt hard drive or whatever,

01:13:57 ◼   ► I don't think you can.

01:13:59 ◼   ► Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that,

01:14:02 ◼   ► well, maybe you would go through the Thunderbolt dock

01:14:05 ◼   ► and then if it's got Thunderbolt out,

01:14:06 ◼   ► you would put that to the monitor, maybe that would work.

01:14:08 ◼   ► But like, it's complicated is what I'm saying.

01:14:11 ◼   ► And I wish that it was less complicated,

01:14:12 ◼   ► but I also kind of get it that in Mac studio terms,

01:14:16 ◼   ► it's easy 'cause the Mac studio has all the plugs

01:14:18 ◼   ► and then you don't worry about it.

01:14:19 ◼   ► But if you've got a MacBook Pro,

01:14:20 ◼   ► and I'm a big fan of this,

01:14:21 ◼   ► like the whole idea here is it charges your MacBook Pro

01:14:23 ◼   ► or your MacBook Air.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Like it doesn't matter, it'll charge your laptop

01:14:26 ◼   ► and provide IO and provide the display.

01:14:30 ◼   ► So you really do want to live the one cable lifestyle.

01:14:33 ◼   ► And that's going to lead to hubs and docks and things

01:14:37 ◼   ► probably because it's only got those three USB ports there.

01:14:42 ◼   ► - I have a CalDigit Thunderbolt dock that I use right now.

01:14:45 ◼   ► And I am intrigued to find out what happens

01:14:50 ◼   ► when I plug that into my display.

01:14:51 ◼   ► My hope will be that it will just function as USB-C.

01:14:55 ◼   ► 'Cause I only have,

01:14:56 ◼   ► I don't have anything incredibly powerful.

01:14:58 ◼   ► I have a bunch of like USB-A things,

01:15:00 ◼   ► an ethernet cable, that kind of stuff.

01:15:02 ◼   ► My hope is it will work, but I will have to find out.

01:15:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel like you, like the mysteries of Thunderbolt.

01:15:12 ◼   ► - And that's what I'm saying.

01:15:13 ◼   ► That's why I want it to be Thunderbolt in that display.

01:15:16 ◼   ► So I don't have to have this thought of like,

01:15:18 ◼   ► am I going to have to get a new dock?

01:15:20 ◼   ► If I do, what do I even get?

01:15:22 ◼   ► Because all docs seem to be Thunderbolt now and not USB-C.

01:15:25 ◼   ► I don't know what's going to happen

01:15:27 ◼   ► when I plug that thing in.

01:15:29 ◼   ► - Well, and it will accept USB-C as an input

01:15:32 ◼   ► because you can attach a Mac or an iPad Air to it

01:15:36 ◼   ► and it will use it.

01:15:38 ◼   ► So it's possible that even if you sent USB-C out

01:15:43 ◼   ► from a doc to the display, it would work.

01:15:46 ◼   ► But again, I don't know.

01:15:48 ◼   ► And it probably varies. - This is it.

01:15:48 ◼   ► I have no idea.

01:15:49 ◼   ► - And then I just really know what I'm gonna do

01:15:51 ◼   ► 'cause I have a bunch of USB-A things that,

01:15:53 ◼   ► I guess I'll just have to get a USB-C to USB-A

01:15:58 ◼   ► like port thing, adapter thing, we'll find out.

01:16:01 ◼   ► Back to dongle town, but now monitor related.

01:16:04 ◼   ► Last thing I wanted to ask you about the speakers.

01:16:06 ◼   ► - I am gonna say about the speakers and the microphones,

01:16:10 ◼   ► exactly what I've said about them in the MacBook Pro,

01:16:12 ◼   ► which is, I think Apple is justifiably proud

01:16:15 ◼   ► of what they've done to put pretty good quality

01:16:18 ◼   ► speakers and microphones in a very small space,

01:16:21 ◼   ► in this case, in a display.

01:16:23 ◼   ► But also they've done this,

01:16:24 ◼   ► it's the same kind of engineering

01:16:25 ◼   ► that they've done for the MacBook Pro.

01:16:27 ◼   ► They are justifiably proud of that.

01:16:30 ◼   ► The microphones are okay.

01:16:33 ◼   ► They sound pretty good, although a little echoey,

01:16:36 ◼   ► but remember the microphones are far away

01:16:38 ◼   ► 'cause you're sitting at a display,

01:16:39 ◼   ► you're not right up against,

01:16:40 ◼   ► like I'm right against my microphone here.

01:16:43 ◼   ► I'm touching it with my nose right now, right?

01:16:45 ◼   ► Like it's right here.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Display is far away.

01:16:48 ◼   ► So even a good microphone at that distance,

01:16:50 ◼   ► it's gonna be a challenge.

01:16:51 ◼   ► They've got the three microphones,

01:16:53 ◼   ► they've got the beam forming,

01:16:54 ◼   ► they're trying to make it sound okay.

01:16:55 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:16:56 ◼   ► For a video conference or something, it does sound okay.

01:16:58 ◼   ► It sounds pretty good.

01:17:00 ◼   ► Not podcast level good.

01:17:01 ◼   ► Although if you wanted to make it podcast level good,

01:17:04 ◼   ► what you'd do is you'd go all the way up to it

01:17:05 ◼   ► and be like, "Hello, I'm very close to the..."

01:17:07 ◼   ► And then it would probably sound great,

01:17:09 ◼   ► but be really awkward because you'd be

01:17:12 ◼   ► like putting your face against your monitor

01:17:14 ◼   ► and nobody wants to do that.

01:17:16 ◼   ► The speakers, similarly, are they good for monitors

01:17:21 ◼   ► that fit in a slim speaker?

01:17:23 ◼   ► Yes, they are.

01:17:24 ◼   ► They sound nice.

01:17:26 ◼   ► There's some stereo imaging going on there.

01:17:28 ◼   ► They talk about it being spatial audio.

01:17:30 ◼   ► I don't believe that really.

01:17:32 ◼   ► It's just a fancy word for calculating

01:17:35 ◼   ► the stereo images on the fly.

01:17:38 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:17:40 ◼   ► My problem is that Apple then talks about everything

01:17:42 ◼   ► as being studio quality and amazing.

01:17:44 ◼   ► And like, I think it is amazing engineering for what it is, but that said,

01:17:50 ◼   ► like it is not a replacement for better speakers or headphones.

01:17:52 ◼   ► Um, I use my, since I got rid of the, um, iPod Hi-Fi as my external speakers,

01:18:01 ◼   ► I've been using the iMac pro internal speakers to edit podcasts.

01:18:07 ◼   ► And so I edited a podcast using the studio display internal speakers instead.

01:18:13 ◼   ► I don't think they're as good, honestly,

01:18:16 ◼   ► I don't think they're as good as the iMac Pro speakers.

01:18:18 ◼   ► And the iMac Pro speakers were pretty good

01:18:20 ◼   ► because they had space in the case.

01:18:21 ◼   ► But even if they're as good,

01:18:25 ◼   ► like, I don't know, they are what they are.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Don't, I think Apple lets the hype run away

01:18:31 ◼   ► from them a little bit,

01:18:32 ◼   ► and they translate amazing for where they are,

01:18:36 ◼   ► amazing for the small space they're inside,

01:18:38 ◼   ► to just generally amazing.

01:18:41 ◼   ► And they're not just generally amazing.

01:18:43 ◼   ► They're utilitarian.

01:18:45 ◼   ► If you listen to music on your computer's built-in sound now,

01:18:50 ◼   ► you can do that on this and it'll be fine.

01:18:53 ◼   ► But if you're led to believe by Apple's marketing that,

01:18:56 ◼   ► oh, throw away your microphones,

01:18:57 ◼   ► throw away your external speakers,

01:18:59 ◼   ► all you'll ever need is the stuff that's in the cinema

01:19:01 ◼   ► or the studio display.

01:19:03 ◼   ► Nah, no, that's not what it is.

01:19:06 ◼   ► So it's fine.

01:19:07 ◼   ► It did not blow me away, but it's good for what it is.

01:19:12 ◼   ► And in such a small space, it is impressive.

01:19:15 ◼   ► That's it.

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01:20:05 ◼   ► Remember we have a great API which we could use,

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01:21:23 ◼   ► with some hashtag ask upgrade questions first one today comes from cheese who asks can external

01:21:33 ◼   ► speakers be attached to an Apple Studio display via the USB-C connection in order to maintain

01:21:40 ◼   ► a single cable connection to my M1 Pro MacBook Pro.

01:21:45 ◼   ► Is this possible?

01:21:46 ◼   ► Oh, new audio device detected.

01:21:49 ◼   ► Okay, so you're trying it right now.

01:21:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:55 ◼   ► And if I go to System Preferences, Sound, I now have Studio Display Speakers as an output

01:22:02 ◼   ► and USB-C to 3.5 millimeter headphone jack adapter

01:22:06 ◼   ► as an output.

01:22:08 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:22:08 ◼   ► - So, yes is the answer.

01:22:11 ◼   ► Yes, you plug a USB-C audio adapter

01:22:15 ◼   ► and it just shows up as a USB-C audio adapter

01:22:18 ◼   ► and you can choose it as an output.

01:22:20 ◼   ► - Great.

01:22:21 ◼   ► - That's it.

01:22:22 ◼   ► - I guess I don't know if USB-C powered speakers exist

01:22:25 ◼   ► but I guess if they do, it will work.

01:22:26 ◼   ► But the idea being that yes, it's possible.

01:22:29 ◼   ► You can plug USB-C something to something.

01:22:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, you just use this.

01:22:32 ◼   ► I mean, I'm using the little, the one I use for my iPad Pro,

01:22:35 ◼   ► the little Apple USB-C to headphone jack adapter.

01:22:39 ◼   ► And at that point you take powered speakers

01:22:41 ◼   ► and a headphone jack, you know,

01:22:43 ◼   ► one of those cables and run it and it'll do that.

01:22:46 ◼   ► So yes, you should be able to lead the one chord lifestyle

01:22:49 ◼   ► for your speakers too.

01:22:50 ◼   ► But remember, there's only three back there, so we'll see.

01:22:54 ◼   ► But yeah, that works.

01:22:55 ◼   ► So that was fun.

01:22:56 ◼   ► And I've been meaning to check that out.

01:22:58 ◼   ► So now we know.

01:23:00 ◼   ► - Morkie would like to know,

01:23:01 ◼   ► Did either of you play instruments and did one of you compose and play the theme song

01:23:05 ◼   ► for upgrade?

01:23:06 ◼   ► So this is Morkie from Morkie and Mind, I think.

01:23:08 ◼   ► I knew you were gonna do it.

01:23:11 ◼   ► Every time.

01:23:12 ◼   ► This is a different person.

01:23:14 ◼   ► Mork and Morkie are different?

01:23:16 ◼   ► Yes, I think so.

01:23:18 ◼   ► We have someone who writes in under the name Mork.

01:23:21 ◼   ► Yes, this is not them?

01:23:22 ◼   ► I don't think this is the same person because this person is Morkie.

01:23:26 ◼   ► Is this Morkie Mork and the Fonky Bonch?

01:23:29 ◼   ► Yes, that's it, you nailed it.

01:23:30 ◼   ► who it is? Okay. What was the question? Do either of you play instruments? One. Did one

01:23:39 ◼   ► of you compose and play the theme song? Two. Alright, take the second one first. Theme

01:23:43 ◼   ► song of Upgrade is composed and played entirely by Christopher Breen. It's a Breen theme.

01:23:50 ◼   ► It's a Breen theme. You can go to ChrisBreen.com and he's got, I think he even has them all

01:23:55 ◼   ► for download there, so you can do that. Chris works at Apple now. If you want to pretend

01:23:59 ◼   ► be upgrade, you can do that. Sure, I guess. Chris works at Apple now, so he can't write

01:24:03 ◼   ► about tech anymore, but he still composes theme songs from time to time, and he composed

01:24:07 ◼   ► the upgrade theme before—actually, when he was at Macworld still, so before he was

01:24:11 ◼   ► behind the rainbow curtain, he was able to do that for me, and a bunch of my other—the

01:24:17 ◼   ► incomparable theme is a Breen theme, there are a bunch of Breen themes out there. But

01:24:22 ◼   ► yeah, that's that. Do either of us play instruments? I took piano lessons in school,

01:24:29 ◼   ► and, or when I was in school,

01:24:33 ◼   ► and I can very poorly play the piano.

01:24:37 ◼   ► That didn't stop me from,

01:24:39 ◼   ► there are a bunch of robot or not theme songs,

01:24:41 ◼   ► not the main one, but there are like three alternate robot

01:24:44 ◼   ► or not theme songs that come up every now and then

01:24:45 ◼   ► that were performed by me,

01:24:47 ◼   ► but that's a lot of, I've got a USB piano keyboard,

01:24:52 ◼   ► and there's also a lot of logic loops involved in those,

01:24:57 ◼   ► but that's my, so that's my story.

01:24:58 ◼   ► but I wouldn't say I play any instrument competently.

01:25:01 ◼   ► - I play no instruments.

01:25:02 ◼   ► I only included this question because I wanted to point out

01:25:05 ◼   ► that many upgrade-eds noticed the theme song difference

01:25:10 ◼   ► for last episode because Jason, for some reason,

01:25:13 ◼   ► decides that every time he edits the show,

01:25:16 ◼   ► he plays the alternate version of the--

01:25:18 ◼   ► - Not every time, just sometimes.

01:25:20 ◼   ► - Most of the time, I think, when you edit.

01:25:22 ◼   ► You use the alternate version.

01:25:23 ◼   ► - It's an Easter egg.

01:25:24 ◼   ► It's a little Easter egg.

01:25:25 ◼   ► - And the irony is that I asked Chris to change it

01:25:29 ◼   ► from the synth to the guitar.

01:25:30 ◼   ► - This is how I remember it,

01:25:31 ◼   ► 'cause this is what annoys me about this every time,

01:25:33 ◼   ► is people like, "Yay, Jason's music."

01:25:36 ◼   ► It's like, "No, I liked this one

01:25:39 ◼   ► and Jason changed it initially."

01:25:41 ◼   ► I think episode one may have used this theme

01:25:46 ◼   ► and then it was changed.

01:25:47 ◼   ► Or there was the synth version

01:25:49 ◼   ► and then Jason wanted the more guitar focused version

01:25:52 ◼   ► which became the upgrade theme.

01:25:54 ◼   ► And then everyone's like, "Oh, down with Myke.

01:25:56 ◼   ► He plays the bad song.

01:25:58 ◼   ► Jason plays good songs."

01:25:59 ◼   ► I'm like, "Myke wanted this one."

01:26:01 ◼   ► - But it's the fact that it's rare in an Easter egg

01:26:04 ◼   ► that makes it more special.

01:26:05 ◼   ► - If it was the other way around,

01:26:06 ◼   ► everyone would be like, "Hell yeah,

01:26:07 ◼   ► rocking out with Jason."

01:26:09 ◼   ► - Well, Myke, I'm just gonna say this.

01:26:11 ◼   ► Next episode is episode 400.

01:26:13 ◼   ► We could just decide to use the synth version

01:26:16 ◼   ► for 100 episodes or something if you wanted to.

01:26:19 ◼   ► Just switch.

01:26:21 ◼   ► - And you know what now though?

01:26:21 ◼   ► I don't think I could.

01:26:23 ◼   ► I think it so many episodes it would be weird for me now like it's just ingrained in my

01:26:27 ◼   ► head you know.

01:26:28 ◼   ► We'll keep it it's it's a special just like we have the upgrade draft theme and the holiday

01:26:33 ◼   ► theme.

01:26:34 ◼   ► We have the holiday music, the summer of fun song.

01:26:35 ◼   ► Summer of fun.

01:26:36 ◼   ► I just wanted to get it on record.

01:26:37 ◼   ► This is another alternate.

01:26:38 ◼   ► Okay this isn't like Jason saving us he's finally using the synth version which is what

01:26:43 ◼   ► some upgrade-ians treat it as you know they like look forward to when I'm away so they

01:26:48 ◼   ► get the good music but I just want to make it none like Myke isn't keeping that good

01:26:51 ◼   ► musical where he is now because Jason just now I'm keeping it from you from now.

01:26:56 ◼   ► Down with Myke again.

01:26:58 ◼   ► Now you can say down with Myke because Myke has made the decision that the old theme stays

01:27:03 ◼   ► but I just want to tell the truth from the past you know.

01:27:07 ◼   ► People just like that it's different although I did appreciate listening to Brian on Twitter

01:27:11 ◼   ► saying "woo it's the good intro" or something like that and I was like mmm.

01:27:17 ◼   ► Honestly it was Brian's tweet that set off this raging.

01:27:20 ◼   ► - Yes, yeah.

01:27:21 ◼   ► It's just different, it's a little Easter egg, it's fun.

01:27:25 ◼   ► That's all.

01:27:26 ◼   ► I thought about not doing it in fact last time,

01:27:28 ◼   ► but then I did it, so.

01:27:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:27:30 ◼   ► - It's like a smoke signal, you know?

01:27:32 ◼   ► It's like an if you know, you know kind of thing.

01:27:33 ◼   ► - It's special.

01:27:35 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:27:36 ◼   ► - JJ Aparo asks, "Would you pay extra

01:27:39 ◼   ► for a colorful MacBook?"

01:27:40 ◼   ► So if Apple made you pay more for colors,

01:27:44 ◼   ► the colors that we desperately want, would you pay it?

01:27:47 ◼   ► Similarly, how you used to have to pay extra

01:27:50 ◼   ► if you wanted a black MacBook.

01:27:52 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:27:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I was thinking about like how car makers will say,

01:27:54 ◼   ► we'll give you a boring color,

01:27:55 ◼   ► but you can pay a thousand dollars more

01:27:57 ◼   ► and get an interesting color, that kind of thing.

01:27:59 ◼   ► - I wouldn't pay a thousand.

01:28:02 ◼   ► I wouldn't do that.

01:28:03 ◼   ► - For a more interesting car?

01:28:04 ◼   ► - For a more interesting color on a MacBook.

01:28:07 ◼   ► - No, that I wouldn't.

01:28:09 ◼   ► MacBook Air 999 in blue, 1999.

01:28:12 ◼   ► Wow, Apple are geniuses.

01:28:14 ◼   ► How did they come up with that one?

01:28:15 ◼   ► Would I pay extra?

01:28:16 ◼   ► Well, I'll say I had a black MacBook.

01:28:19 ◼   ► - There you go.

01:28:20 ◼   ► Although my business bought it for me, but I wanted it.

01:28:23 ◼   ► - I liked the white one.

01:28:25 ◼   ► I had the white one.

01:28:26 ◼   ► I liked the white one.