Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 400. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14 ◼   ► Fitbud, Ooni, Zocdoc, and Theragun. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by

00:00:20 ◼   ► Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow! Episode 400, Myke!

00:00:24 ◼   ► Episode 400! 400 episodes!

00:00:28 ◼   ► It's a lot of episodes.

00:00:29 ◼   ► That's 399 more than one, you know?

00:00:32 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:00:33 ◼   ► That's just, it ends in two zeros.

00:00:36 ◼   ► We got 10 fingers and 10 toes,

00:00:38 ◼   ► and that makes this a milestone.

00:00:40 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:00:41 ◼   ► - I have a hashtag snail talk question for you.

00:00:43 ◼   ► We're starting off in Epic fashion.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Comes from Salva.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Jason, do you have a favorite mug?

00:00:48 ◼   ► - Of course.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Epic fashion. - Epic, yep.

00:00:53 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, we do talk about,

00:00:54 ◼   ► I'm drinking tea during upgrade.

00:00:56 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:00:57 ◼   ► For those who don't know, Upgrade is recorded on a Monday morning.

00:01:00 ◼   ► And so I...

00:01:01 ◼   ► And/or a Monday evening, depending on where you are in the world.

00:01:04 ◼   ► That's true.

00:01:05 ◼   ► But in this case, I am fueled by tea for Upgrade, because it's Monday morning here.

00:01:12 ◼   ► So yeah, I do have a favorite mug.

00:01:16 ◼   ► It is a...

00:01:17 ◼   ► I mean, I have several that I like a lot, but the one that I would call my favorite,

00:01:20 ◼   ► I think clearly, I have a mug that I got.

00:01:24 ◼   ► It's actually a duplicate of one that I got because it broke and I had them send me a

00:01:28 ◼   ► replacement at the Louisville Slugger Museum in Louisville, Kentucky, which is fun. That's

00:01:36 ◼   ► where they make baseball bats, obviously, although it's complicated because they're

00:01:42 ◼   ► –

00:01:43 ◼   ► It's very funny to me that you said "obviously." That is not obvious to me at all.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Louisville Slugger is the famous – well, it is a famous maker of baseball bats, although

00:01:52 ◼   ► I read a story recently about how there's like a beetle that's infested all of the trees,

00:01:56 ◼   ► the ash trees that it's an Asian beetle that have got imported to America and is eating

00:02:01 ◼   ► all the trees and so they're migrating all of the bats that were traditionally ash bats

00:02:06 ◼   ► now there a lot more of them are maple I think and another so and and that changed Louisville

00:02:13 ◼   ► sluggers supremacy into something else and it was actually kind of an interesting article

00:02:16 ◼   ► about how this thing that is just a beetle has completely devastated this other industry

00:02:21 ◼   ► Anyway, it's a mug from the Louisville Slugger Museum and it's got baseball seams on it,

00:02:26 ◼   ► so it looks kind of like a baseball turned into a mug and I like it.

00:02:30 ◼   ► And then it broke and I was very sad, but they offered it on their website, so I just

00:02:34 ◼   ► got another one.

00:02:35 ◼   ► I can't find it on their website.

00:02:37 ◼   ► I'm clicking around the website now.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Maybe you bought the last one, so take care of that thing.

00:02:41 ◼   ► Well that was a little while ago, so I better not break this one or I'm in real trouble.

00:02:45 ◼   ► But yes, Louisville, Kentucky, I have some family who live near there.

00:02:52 ◼   ► They live in Indiana, but they live across the river.

00:02:55 ◼   ► But I've been through there a few times and it was a cool museum.

00:03:01 ◼   ► SluggerMuseum.com.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Salva for that question.

00:03:04 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question of your own so we can help open an episode of

00:03:08 ◼   ► Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk or use question mark snow talk in

00:03:12 ◼   ► the Relay FM members discord.

00:03:14 ◼   ► We have a very action-packed full show today.

00:03:17 ◼   ► It is a gigantic show.

00:03:19 ◼   ► This is really one for the ages.

00:03:21 ◼   ► We've got a lot going on today, but I do want to start with some follow-up.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Friend of the show, Russell Ivanovich, wrote in to tell me that after updating to Mac OS

00:03:31 ◼   ► 12.3, he was no longer seeing flickering lights caused by his overhead lighting on his Mac

00:03:38 ◼   ► webcam.

00:03:39 ◼   ► I can confirm, Apple's appeared to have fixed this. I tried with both my iMac and my MacBook

00:03:47 ◼   ► Pro and I no longer see the flickering caused by the 50 hertz polling rate on the lights.

00:03:53 ◼   ► You know like we had the 50 hertz, 60 hertz is different in Europe, UK and other parts

00:03:59 ◼   ► of the world to America. There's like different places do these things differently. Which

00:04:03 ◼   ► is like pow and NTSC it's like one of these things you see on televisions

00:04:07 ◼   ► anyway it seems to have been fixed so whoever it is in Apple that I can only

00:04:13 ◼   ► assume Jason heard my complaints because they just seem to have got fixed out of

00:04:17 ◼   ► the blue so I will take 100% credit for this it appears to have been fixed and I

00:04:23 ◼   ► am genuinely very happy so when my studio display arrives at some point in

00:04:28 ◼   ► the near future I'm expecting that camera to work too because it seems to

00:04:33 ◼   ► have been repaired. So I'm very happy about this because it now makes—I now have been

00:04:37 ◼   ► able to remove the terrible Logitech camera that I had on top of my beautiful iMac and

00:04:41 ◼   ► put it back in a drawer. Very happy.

00:04:43 ◼   ► It's a victory. I wonder what update solved this. Was it 12.3?

00:04:46 ◼   ► It was definitely 12.3, yeah.

00:04:48 ◼   ► That's what Russell said? All right. Great.

00:04:50 ◼   ► But, you know, as normal, nothing in any release notes. Like, I've been searching around through

00:04:54 ◼   ► release notes, through the detailed release notes.

00:04:56 ◼   ► No.

00:04:57 ◼   ► Nothing.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Imagine if they actually did that. Did you file a feedback? Have you checked to see if

00:05:01 ◼   ► they sent you a thing that said—

00:05:02 ◼   ► this feedback has been fixed?

00:05:04 ◼   ► - I was planning on filing a feedback

00:05:07 ◼   ► after I tested it on the studio display.

00:05:09 ◼   ► - Ah, now you can't?

00:05:10 ◼   ► - Well then I don't need to.

00:05:11 ◼   ► - It just denied you satisfaction of your feedback.

00:05:13 ◼   ► - Oh no, Jason, I'll tell you now,

00:05:15 ◼   ► every time I don't have to fill in one of those feedbacks,

00:05:17 ◼   ► I'm happy because that process is terrible.

00:05:20 ◼   ► - It's a lot.

00:05:20 ◼   ► - Speaking of my studio display, it still hasn't shipped.

00:05:23 ◼   ► My arrival window starts this week, but it hasn't shipped.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And I did note that I was like,

00:05:30 ◼   ► I like poking around the App Store app,

00:05:31 ◼   ► seeing what's going on.

00:05:32 ◼   ► and

00:05:53 ◼   ► with like two terabytes of storage and more RAM.

00:05:56 ◼   ► And it took me a minute to realize 29th of June

00:06:00 ◼   ► is the date that they are talking about there

00:06:04 ◼   ► for in-store collections.

00:06:06 ◼   ► So Apple are allowing you to do an in-store pickup now

00:06:10 ◼   ► on many configurations of the Studio Display

00:06:13 ◼   ► and the Mac Studio, but in three months from now.

00:06:16 ◼   ► - Well, my Studio Display,

00:06:18 ◼   ► VESA mount standard glass is still listed

00:06:21 ◼   ► as April 6th to April 13th, and it's in processing mode right now, not preparing to ship. So...

00:06:28 ◼   ► - I am in processing between the 30th of March and the 6th of April, and they haven't charged

00:06:35 ◼   ► my card yet, so it's, I'm thinking it's not gonna be this week.

00:06:40 ◼   ► - Probably, probably not. Well, I'm happy that it's just coming through. I mean, I have

00:06:44 ◼   ► one in front of me, but this is the Apple owner, and I'm looking forward to getting

00:06:47 ◼   ► the face amount so I can put that arm back on my desk and see what that's about and probably

00:06:51 ◼   ► have to spend $50 on a Thunderbolt cable in order to get it to be. Oh, I have a side note

00:06:57 ◼   ► and I'm going to mention it now and I'm afraid that people are going to pay money for this

00:07:00 ◼   ► thing and they might not want to do it. Well, they could. They might not want to do it until

00:07:08 ◼   ► I get mine and try it out. But I bought from Otherworld Computing. I bought this thing,

00:07:20 ◼   ► let me see if I can find the name of it. I know I sent it to you last week.

00:07:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I can find it. You can explain it. I know I can.

00:07:25 ◼   ► I got it. I got it. It is the Neuertek New Shelf. It is a mount so that you can put two

00:07:32 ◼   ► two Mac Minis or a Mac Mini and their Mac Mini sized

00:07:36 ◼   ► like hard drive or whatever,

00:07:40 ◼   ► two Mac Mini shaped things in a stack under your desk.

00:07:43 ◼   ► It's basically like a Lucite thing that you screw

00:07:47 ◼   ► under a desk.

00:07:50 ◼   ► And basically it's a mount for multiple Mac Minis.

00:07:54 ◼   ► Guess what?

00:07:55 ◼   ► Sure looks like it'll fit a Mac Studio.

00:07:58 ◼   ► So this is the first thing I've seen

00:07:59 ◼   ► that looks kind of like an under desk mount

00:08:01 ◼   ► for a Mac studio.

00:08:03 ◼   ► And so I'm gonna try it out.

00:08:06 ◼   ► So they're selling them, it's like for old Mac minis.

00:08:10 ◼   ► So it's literally like on clearance.

00:08:14 ◼   ► So maybe people will buy it and they'll sell out of it

00:08:18 ◼   ► and they'll realize they need to make a new one.

00:08:20 ◼   ► But it's 8.1 by 8.1 by 4.4.

00:08:25 ◼   ► So it should fit fine on a Mac studio.

00:08:28 ◼   ► And I'm kind of intrigued by it.

00:08:30 ◼   ► So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I ordered one

00:08:31 ◼   ► and I'm gonna give it a try

00:08:32 ◼   ► and I'm gonna see if it's any good.

00:08:33 ◼   ► And my biggest concern there honestly,

00:08:35 ◼   ► is the length of that Thunderbolt cable to the monitor.

00:08:38 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't think it's gonna be enough.

00:08:39 ◼   ► And I'm gonna have to then go back to other world computing

00:08:41 ◼   ► and spend $50 on a Thunderbolt cable

00:08:44 ◼   ► in order to stretch it from under my desk

00:08:47 ◼   ► up the monitor arm to my display.

00:08:51 ◼   ► - I'm actually pleased that you mentioned this.

00:08:52 ◼   ► You sent this to me and Steven in Slack a few days ago.

00:08:56 ◼   ► And at the time I was concerned,

00:08:58 ◼   ► just this whole thing concerned me.

00:09:00 ◼   ► So now I can actually share some of my concerns with you.

00:09:03 ◼   ► So one, the weight is an issue, right?

00:09:07 ◼   ► You gotta put that thing in there

00:09:08 ◼   ► and hope that it's A, that the plastic is strong enough

00:09:11 ◼   ► to hold it, and that B, it can be screwed into the desk

00:09:16 ◼   ► with enough strength, right?

00:09:17 ◼   ► So that's--

00:09:18 ◼   ► - Right, I mean it looks like it's thick Lucite

00:09:19 ◼   ► and they did make it for multiple Mac Minis basically,

00:09:22 ◼   ► so I would think that it would be okay,

00:09:24 ◼   ► but yeah, I think that's a fair point.

00:09:25 ◼   ► My other under desk shelving that I have

00:09:27 ◼   ► for my audio interfaces is metal.

00:09:30 ◼   ► It also means it's thinner and I think it's stronger.

00:09:33 ◼   ► And that's what I really would like is a shelf like that

00:09:37 ◼   ► that's in max studio proportions.

00:09:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, metal I would prefer to plastic just in general.

00:09:42 ◼   ► My second thought was, are you doing anything

00:09:46 ◼   ► to stop it potentially slipping right out of there?

00:09:49 ◼   ► - That's a great question.

00:09:51 ◼   ► - They sell a product, it's linked on this page

00:09:53 ◼   ► called the New Pad Bass.

00:09:56 ◼   ► - It's like an anti-skid mat.

00:09:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a non-skid rubber foot for Mac Mini.

00:10:02 ◼   ► But I don't know if the dimensions would be right

00:10:05 ◼   ► for the Mac Studio as well.

00:10:07 ◼   ► But if you like it, I implore you to find something

00:10:11 ◼   ► like this because I would be worried that,

00:10:14 ◼   ► you know, it's just, I don't know,

00:10:16 ◼   ► like maybe you could pull on a cable too hard

00:10:18 ◼   ► and then the Mac Studio just flies out

00:10:21 ◼   ► of the back of that thing.

00:10:22 ◼   ► like flip up my desk into standing orientation

00:10:25 ◼   ► and there's a taut cable somewhere

00:10:27 ◼   ► and it just yanks the max studio right out the back.

00:10:29 ◼   ► - Which could still happen even with the base,

00:10:31 ◼   ► but that would be my worry that that thing is, you know.

00:10:35 ◼   ► - I think these are all good questions.

00:10:39 ◼   ► And whoever is out there, I assume,

00:10:41 ◼   ► and I haven't heard from them,

00:10:42 ◼   ► but I kind of assume that 12 South

00:10:44 ◼   ► is gonna build an actual like series of mounting solutions

00:10:49 ◼   ► for the max studio and you know, they'll be pricey,

00:10:52 ◼   ► but they'll be really nice 'cause that's what they do.

00:10:55 ◼   ► And then I also assume, yes,

00:10:57 ◼   ► that these companies that I find on Amazon

00:10:59 ◼   ► that do the bent metal,

00:11:00 ◼   ► put your PC under your desk kind of mounts

00:11:03 ◼   ► will make one that's the right shape.

00:11:05 ◼   ► But it's early days yet.

00:11:07 ◼   ► And I'm curious about doing this thing

00:11:10 ◼   ► as an under desk mount.

00:11:11 ◼   ► So I'm gonna give it a try, but I make no recommendations.

00:11:13 ◼   ► This is all in the name of science.

00:11:15 ◼   ► - I love it.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Science is great.

00:11:17 ◼   ► Have you had any more observations

00:11:20 ◼   ► or any experiences you wanted to share in the past week

00:11:24 ◼   ► when using these products?

00:11:26 ◼   ► Like, has anything popped out for you

00:11:28 ◼   ► or have you been mostly enjoying it?

00:11:30 ◼   ► - Not really, it's been, I mean,

00:11:31 ◼   ► I was gone for a big chunk of the week,

00:11:33 ◼   ► so I've only used it a little bit,

00:11:34 ◼   ► but I had been using it for a long time before that.

00:11:39 ◼   ► And it's just, they're pleasurable to use, right?

00:11:42 ◼   ► I mean, they're fast,

00:11:43 ◼   ► and I was going from that Intel iMac Pro.

00:11:47 ◼   ► So I've had a pretty good experience.

00:11:51 ◼   ► I haven't had any, you know,

00:11:52 ◼   ► restarts of the monitor or anything like that.

00:11:55 ◼   ► The Mac has been fast.

00:11:57 ◼   ► I have, I enjoy the experience of listening to podcasts

00:12:02 ◼   ► about these products that I spent time with

00:12:06 ◼   ► by people who are still trying,

00:12:08 ◼   ► especially people who don't have them

00:12:09 ◼   ► and are still trying to figure out what they all mean

00:12:11 ◼   ► where I've had it for a couple of weeks.

00:12:12 ◼   ► - Well, look, Jason,

00:12:13 ◼   ► we can't all be as lucky as you, right?

00:12:15 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, but I guess what I'm saying is,

00:12:18 ◼   ► it's just funny to hear ATP last week debating like the

00:12:22 ◼   ► noise from the Mac studio display or the Mac studio,

00:12:25 ◼   ► but they don't, they've never heard it.

00:12:28 ◼   ► And it's just kind of funny because there's this back and

00:12:31 ◼   ► forth and there, what I like about it is them detailing

00:12:34 ◼   ► what the conflicting reports, because I have my experience,

00:12:37 ◼   ► but there are conflicting reports.

00:12:38 ◼   ► So they're like, well, Jason says it makes noise,

00:12:40 ◼   ► but somebody else says it doesn't make noise.

00:12:42 ◼   ► And it made me laugh because this is one of those things

00:12:46 ◼   ► that I'm not, like with the camera on the studio display,

00:12:49 ◼   ► I have this like, did I get a weird one?

00:12:52 ◼   ► Am I not seeing it?

00:12:53 ◼   ► Is it my lighting conditions?

00:12:55 ◼   ► I don't really entirely understand why I've had

00:12:58 ◼   ► a better experience than a lot of people have had with it.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Max Studio, I have no doubt about it

00:13:02 ◼   ► because I literally wasn't expecting it to make any noise.

00:13:04 ◼   ► And I was sitting in my office and I went,

00:13:07 ◼   ► "What's that noise?"

00:13:08 ◼   ► And it was the Max Studio.

00:13:11 ◼   ► So if somebody tells you that it's inaudible,

00:13:13 ◼   ► I would say, well, I could hear it.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Maybe that's a difference in what frequency ranges

00:13:19 ◼   ► we can hear, but I could hear it for sure.

00:13:21 ◼   ► And it was like, I wasn't expecting to hear it.

00:13:23 ◼   ► I was surprised to hear it.

00:13:26 ◼   ► It wasn't one of those things where I tested it

00:13:28 ◼   ► and I was like, all right, how do I feel about this sound?

00:13:30 ◼   ► I literally expected it to be silent.

00:13:33 ◼   ► And then I was sitting in my office and I went,

00:13:35 ◼   ► what is that sound?

00:13:37 ◼   ► And it was the Max Studio.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Not a loud sound, but a sound that wasn't there before.

00:13:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, a sound that, yeah, as you say,

00:13:44 ◼   ► a sound that wasn't there before.

00:13:46 ◼   ► I've been thinking a lot about that.

00:13:47 ◼   ► Like we were talking about it last week on the show

00:13:50 ◼   ► and we were talking about it on Connected a little bit too,

00:13:54 ◼   ► where I kind of feel like it's just like really interesting

00:13:56 ◼   ► to me that this machine has clearly been designed

00:14:01 ◼   ► for the Ultra and it does things that the Ultra needs,

00:14:05 ◼   ► but even the Pro version does them too, right?

00:14:07 ◼   ► And I've just mentioned it again, like, you know,

00:14:09 ◼   ► Like the fan, is it not consistently audible in my MacBook Pro?

00:14:15 ◼   ► Like I don't ever hear it, you know what I mean?

00:14:16 ◼   ► So it's just intriguing to me, the decisions that they made.

00:14:19 ◼   ► You know, like someone wrote it to us and said like it's probably because of the power

00:14:22 ◼   ► supply, right?

00:14:23 ◼   ► They want to put air through the power supply.

00:14:25 ◼   ► But the power supply is way bigger in the Mac Studio than the M1 Pro needs to, right?

00:14:30 ◼   ► So like it's just these interesting things that they've done.

00:14:33 ◼   ► When clearly this is a machine that they're going to use for the next 10 years.

00:14:37 ◼   ► I'm repeating something that's unconnected anyway now, but like they're gonna use this

00:14:39 ◼   ► for like maybe for the next five or ten years. So the chips that are gonna be in it then

00:14:43 ◼   ► are gonna be way more powerful. So they built it with that in mind. Like I don't disagree

00:14:47 ◼   ► with it, but it's just intriguing to me.

00:14:49 ◼   ► - After the Trashcan Mac Pro, Apple is going to build thermal headroom into every new enclosure

00:14:55 ◼   ► they build, right? If they're intending it to last.

00:14:58 ◼   ► - Even like, yeah, because that for sure, but like it's just smart design, right? Like

00:15:02 ◼   ► to do it that way, you know?

00:15:03 ◼   ► - Indeed, yeah.

00:15:05 ◼   ► Like you, all of these, like this is like, you know, that the enclosure thing is why,

00:15:09 ◼   ► you know, I, the Mac Pro is going to look like the Mac Pro, right?

00:15:13 ◼   ► Like the one that they've did is this is how it's going to look.

00:15:15 ◼   ► I don't know what they're going to put in it, but I can't imagine it's a one and done

00:15:19 ◼   ► design.

00:15:20 ◼   ► You know, I think the iMac Pro is one where you could maybe argue like, oh, that was like,

00:15:23 ◼   ► it wasn't like a new design, but they did some stuff around that.

00:15:26 ◼   ► But the iMac Pro is an aborted timeline, remember?

00:15:29 ◼   ► They intended to upgrade that thing again and again.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Yep.

00:15:33 ◼   ► That was supposed to be the plan.

00:15:35 ◼   ► So that is the outlier, but I think for clear reason we can see.

00:15:41 ◼   ► Gareth wrote in and said "You were talking about Apple charging more for colors during

00:15:47 ◼   ► Ask Upgrade.

00:15:48 ◼   ► Apple already charges more for colors with the iMac.

00:15:51 ◼   ► There's a choice of 4 colors for the base computer, but if you want yellow, orange or

00:15:55 ◼   ► purple you have to pay $200 more."

00:15:57 ◼   ► That was interesting.

00:15:59 ◼   ► This isn't exactly as clean as we were talking about last time of like, you can get a silver

00:16:05 ◼   ► MacBook Air, but if you want a colored MacBook Air, you'd have to pay a bit more.

00:16:11 ◼   ► But basically in the iMacs, there are certain colors that are only available if you go for

00:16:17 ◼   ► one of the higher spec'd products.

00:16:20 ◼   ► So the reason I don't consider this the same is because it is not color you're paying for,

00:16:26 ◼   ► paying for specs but at the higher rating there are different colors and Apple has done

00:16:31 ◼   ► that right where there you have to pay a little bit more to get out of the base model to get

00:16:36 ◼   ► a bigger color selection it's not quite the same.

00:16:39 ◼   ► I mean they do this with the iPhone too right you want certain iPhone colors you got to

00:16:43 ◼   ► pay more money.

00:16:44 ◼   ► Because my argument was that that theoretical was about you're paying more for color and

00:16:48 ◼   ► that's like the black MacBook which was the literally the same specs as the white MacBook

00:16:52 ◼   ► but cost more because it was black. The iMac, at that level, all of the colors are the same.

00:16:57 ◼   ► If the base level iMac was only silver, right, like you could only get the silver one as

00:17:03 ◼   ► the base level and then the rest of them are more expensive, then this would maybe count

00:17:08 ◼   ► more. I thought this was a good point that Gareth made, right, that there are certain

00:17:11 ◼   ► colors that are locked behind prices, but it's not all colors when it comes to the iMac.

00:17:15 ◼   ► You can still get one with color. Yes. This episode is brought to you by our friends,

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00:20:01 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:20:03 ◼   ► Saddle up, Jason Snow.

00:20:04 ◼   ► It is an episode 400 rumor roundup.

00:20:07 ◼   ► - Oh boy, this is a,

00:20:09 ◼   ► is there a powerful dog involved in any way?

00:20:12 ◼   ► - No, there are no powers.

00:20:13 ◼   ► There are no dogs.

00:20:14 ◼   ► Not today anyway. - Okay.

00:20:16 ◼   ► - iPhone 14 rumors.

00:20:18 ◼   ► It's that time again.

00:20:20 ◼   ► YouTuber Max Weinbach shared some leaked schematics

00:20:24 ◼   ► of the new Pro phone that show that guess what?

00:20:27 ◼   ► The camera module's getting bigger.

00:20:29 ◼   ► All of those potential rumors

00:20:31 ◼   ► that were being shared around of all

00:20:32 ◼   ► next iPhone is going to have a flat back? Noooooo! It's getting bigger! And the iPhone

00:20:39 ◼   ► Pro models will actually also be getting a little thicker. Ming-Chi Kuo saw this report.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Ming-Chi Kuo, I love that Ming-Chi Kuo is on Twitter now because you get loads more

00:20:49 ◼   ► from Ming-Chi Kuo. What would Ming-Chi Kuo be? We need to think of a title, right? Because

00:20:56 ◼   ► I feel like Ming-Chi Kuo is almost as important as all the sheriff of Rumour Town, Mark Gurman.

00:21:03 ◼   ► Ming-Chi Kuo says that the thickness and the camera model change is due to the main camera,

00:21:11 ◼   ► aka the wide camera, being upgraded to feature a 48 megapixel sensor, and the sensor being larger

00:21:19 ◼   ► overall, the sensor size is being increased by 25 to 35%.

00:21:24 ◼   ► I'm pretty excited about this.

00:21:27 ◼   ► The iPhone camera sensors have been 12 megapixel

00:21:33 ◼   ► for a long time, like a long, long time, many, many years.

00:21:36 ◼   ► And so an upgrade to that, I'm looking forward to it.

00:21:39 ◼   ► I'm hoping that it will help reduce the need

00:21:42 ◼   ► for some of the deep fusion processing that Apple do,

00:21:45 ◼   ► which sometimes, I've said this before,

00:21:47 ◼   ► I think impacts my photos negatively.

00:21:51 ◼   ► I think some of the sharpness boosting that they do

00:21:53 ◼   ► can make a photo look too dark,

00:21:55 ◼   ► like too grainy for me in a way, not grainy,

00:21:59 ◼   ► but I don't like the way it looks sometimes.

00:22:01 ◼   ► And I'm hoping that the additional detail that they get

00:22:05 ◼   ► from a 48 megapixel sensor could help with that.

00:22:07 ◼   ► I'm excited about that, but I can't even imagine, Jason,

00:22:11 ◼   ► I cannot conceive of the camera module getting larger.

00:22:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, it does seem,

00:22:16 ◼   ► I mean, there are lots of rumors out there

00:22:18 ◼   ► that Apple is working hard on switching to a more

00:22:21 ◼   ► like periscope kind of approach, right?

00:22:25 ◼   ► Where they lengthen the light travel

00:22:28 ◼   ► by turning it 90 degrees.

00:22:30 ◼   ► And that one of the reasons you might do that

00:22:33 ◼   ► is in order to prevent these modules

00:22:35 ◼   ► from getting bigger and bigger.

00:22:37 ◼   ► - And also allows you to get the bigger zooms.

00:22:39 ◼   ► I think that's probably gonna be the biggest thing

00:22:40 ◼   ► that they do for that.

00:22:42 ◼   ► - So I think the optics are important.

00:22:45 ◼   ► I mean, actual optics, not like metaphorical optics.

00:22:49 ◼   ► People want good cameras.

00:22:50 ◼   ► And I'll tell you, people who care about the cameras

00:22:53 ◼   ► are more prominent than people who care about

00:22:55 ◼   ► the size of the bump on the phone.

00:22:57 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, as well, 'cause like, you know,

00:22:59 ◼   ► said many times before,

00:23:00 ◼   ► but most people put their phones in cases,

00:23:03 ◼   ► and cases level out the bumps.

00:23:04 ◼   ► So like, it doesn't matter ultimately, you know?

00:23:08 ◼   ► - That's what they do, they level out the bumps.

00:23:09 ◼   ► - That's exactly 100% what they're for.

00:23:11 ◼   ► - They say.

00:23:14 ◼   ► Apple has acquired a UK banking startup called CreditKudos.

00:23:19 ◼   ► They are essentially a third party credit checking company.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Their whole aim, their whole thing,

00:23:24 ◼   ► was to provide users with a better understanding

00:23:26 ◼   ► of financial health and credit opportunities.

00:23:28 ◼   ► Like, oh, you know, this is how good your savings are.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Maybe you could get a mortgage for this amount,

00:23:33 ◼   ► that kind of stuff.

00:23:34 ◼   ► To do this, they leveraged something

00:23:36 ◼   ► called the Open Banking Platform, which exists in the UK,

00:23:39 ◼   ► where there's an API that all banks have to agree to.

00:23:43 ◼   ► is kind of cool but maybe I don't think this exists in many other places I doubt it anyway

00:23:47 ◼   ► but I'm pretty I love it here so banks all have to agree to this API so let's say you

00:23:52 ◼   ► bank with bank A and also bank B you can log in bank A's app with bank B's credentials

00:24:00 ◼   ► and see all of your bank accounts and all of your credit cards no matter who they're

00:24:04 ◼   ► with in one app. It's really cool. You have to renew this every little while like which

00:24:10 ◼   ► which isn't great, but you do get that.

00:24:12 ◼   ► And then also there are these companies that pop up

00:24:15 ◼   ► that then you can give all of your logins to

00:24:17 ◼   ► and they can look at all of your stuff for you

00:24:19 ◼   ► and give you suggestions,

00:24:21 ◼   ► maybe suggest other deals to you, that kind of stuff.

00:24:23 ◼   ► It's a cool thing that we have here.

00:24:25 ◼   ► And credit kudos, their whole thing was analyzing this

00:24:29 ◼   ► to help you understand your credit score

00:24:30 ◼   ► a little bit better.

00:24:31 ◼   ► Many people, including the Engadget article

00:24:35 ◼   ► that I will link to in our show notes,

00:24:37 ◼   ► are suggesting this could be a precursor to the Apple card

00:24:40 ◼   ► launching in the UK, I don't think this is the case, Jason.

00:24:44 ◼   ► So if Apple are going to launch Apple Card,

00:24:49 ◼   ► they still need to have a credit card partner

00:24:52 ◼   ► like Goldman Sachs, right?

00:24:54 ◼   ► - Right.

00:24:55 ◼   ► - Now, Goldman Sachs do their own credit checking.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Apple do not do the credit checking for Apple Card.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Goldman Sachs do it.

00:25:02 ◼   ► And if they were to partner with someone in the UK,

00:25:04 ◼   ► that credit card company would also want to do

00:25:07 ◼   ► the credit checking, 'cause they are providing

00:25:10 ◼   ► credit. So there's a possibility that this is part of the puzzle, but honestly I would

00:25:15 ◼   ► expect this is more likely that Apple maybe acquired this company because they want to

00:25:19 ◼   ► make their own financial planning tools or something like that.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Right, expanding the idea of that app, the Wallet app that's got all your accounts in

00:25:28 ◼   ► it and all that to provide a financial health. I wonder if they'll move that stuff out of

00:25:33 ◼   ► the Wallet app at some point or whether it's all just going to go in there. It does seem

00:25:36 ◼   ► like it's doing too many things already.

00:25:38 ◼   ► And I think this could be part of that. I do expect Apple to roll Apple Card out to

00:25:43 ◼   ► other territories, but I'm not convinced that this is part of that puzzle because, as I

00:25:50 ◼   ► say, Apple do not do the credit checking. I looked through support documents today to

00:25:53 ◼   ► confirm this. In the US, the credit checking is done by Goldman Sachs. They use it. Apple

00:25:59 ◼   ► do it. And so I can't conceive of any way that that would be different anywhere else.

00:26:05 ◼   ► No bank is going to be like, "Okay, Apple, we'll trust you with our credit."

00:26:09 ◼   ► Apple do not have the risk here.

00:26:11 ◼   ► The credit card companies do.

00:26:13 ◼   ► It's the partner.

00:26:14 ◼   ► Well, kudos to Apple for this acquisition.

00:26:17 ◼   ► Literally.

00:26:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:19 ◼   ► Kudos to Apple.

00:26:20 ◼   ► Oh, oh, sorry.

00:26:21 ◼   ► That took me way too long to get.

00:26:22 ◼   ► I'm like, "Oh, Jason's really happy about this acquisition."

00:26:24 ◼   ► You really should have started with that.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Kudos to Apple.

00:26:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:27 ◼   ► No, literally.

00:26:28 ◼   ► Well, this is why we need you around because I can't think of these things.

00:26:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:32 ◼   ► 15-inch MacBook Air.

00:26:34 ◼   ► Play analyst Russ Young is reporting from supply chain sources that Apple is planning

00:26:38 ◼   ► a new variant of the MacBook Air for 2023 that would have a 15-inch screen. The smaller

00:26:45 ◼   ► of the two would also get a little bit bigger as well at 13.6 inches. What do you think

00:26:50 ◼   ► about this?

00:26:51 ◼   ► Well, I'm... It'll presumably be based on whatever the new MacBook Air design is, and

00:26:57 ◼   ► so I'm kind of interested in that. I think you could creep up the 13-inch MacBook Air

00:27:01 ◼   ► a little bit without making it that much larger.

00:27:03 ◼   ► And, you know, Apple's done that in the past with iPads

00:27:05 ◼   ► where they've made the screen larger,

00:27:06 ◼   ► but they've tried to keep the dimensions very close.

00:27:09 ◼   ► So that's okay.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Big iPad, I think it's great.

00:27:12 ◼   ► I think this idea, they're obviously doing it,

00:27:14 ◼   ► all the reports say this fall,

00:27:15 ◼   ► where there's gonna be an iPhone Max

00:27:17 ◼   ► that is the lower cost iPhone in a bigger size.

00:27:20 ◼   ► I think there are a lot of people

00:27:22 ◼   ► who desire a larger screen.

00:27:23 ◼   ► You know, the argument would be that if you can get them

00:27:26 ◼   ► to pay a pro price to get the larger screen,

00:27:28 ◼   ► then that's great.

00:27:29 ◼   ► But there's also an argument

00:27:31 ◼   ► that they're not gonna pay,

00:27:33 ◼   ► like as the pro products get more and more expensive,

00:27:36 ◼   ► more expensive than their non-pro counterparts,

00:27:39 ◼   ► it's a harder sale to get somebody

00:27:42 ◼   ► to pay all of that extra money

00:27:44 ◼   ► just to have the bigger screen.

00:27:46 ◼   ► And people do like big screens.

00:27:47 ◼   ► I don't want a 15-inch laptop,

00:27:51 ◼   ► but I can see how people would.

00:27:55 ◼   ► And so they used to do this.

00:27:57 ◼   ► There used to be big iBooks and smaller iBooks.

00:27:59 ◼   ► And so I think that it's a good thing

00:28:02 ◼   ► to give people choice like this.

00:28:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree completely.

00:28:05 ◼   ► And Ming-Chi Kuo added to this one saying that

00:28:10 ◼   ► the product may not even be called MacBook Air.

00:28:13 ◼   ► - Ha ha.

00:28:14 ◼   ► - And this got me to thinking with what you just mentioned,

00:28:16 ◼   ► right, that the expectation is there's going to be

00:28:19 ◼   ► an iPhone 14 and an iPhone 14 Max,

00:28:22 ◼   ► so there's a larger one that doesn't have Pro.

00:28:24 ◼   ► So I was wondering, could this be the MacBook Max?

00:28:28 ◼   ► and they drop the air name completely,

00:28:30 ◼   ► MacBook and MacBook Max?

00:28:31 ◼   ► - I think not because,

00:28:33 ◼   ► primarily because there's a Max chip

00:28:34 ◼   ► and I think that that would be a lot of confusion.

00:28:37 ◼   ► - Good point.

00:28:38 ◼   ► - I do wonder though,

00:28:40 ◼   ► so there's this rumor about MacBook and MacBook Air.

00:28:43 ◼   ► MacBook Air, we've been talking about it a long time.

00:28:46 ◼   ► We talked about it in episode 400 or 300, right?

00:28:49 ◼   ► Now it's 400.

00:28:50 ◼   ► So we'll probably be talking about it in 500 too.

00:28:53 ◼   ► The MacBook Air name, like they tried to kill it,

00:28:56 ◼   ► but they couldn't really kill it

00:28:57 ◼   ► and so they've kept it around.

00:28:59 ◼   ► I do think that MacBook as a name makes sense

00:29:04 ◼   ► and that there will probably be a MacBook

00:29:07 ◼   ► without a name in it.

00:29:08 ◼   ► There were some rumors that that's what

00:29:10 ◼   ► the 13 inch MacBook Pro will turn into, right?

00:29:12 ◼   ► Is a MacBook that is appreciably different

00:29:16 ◼   ► and not as thin and light as the MacBook Air.

00:29:19 ◼   ► So it would actually make sense

00:29:21 ◼   ► that the Air is called the Air

00:29:22 ◼   ► because now there's a MacBook that's kind of in the middle.

00:29:25 ◼   ► whether this would be a 15 inch MacBook Air

00:29:29 ◼   ► or whether it would just be a 15 inch MacBook.

00:29:31 ◼   ► I think it depends on marketing,

00:29:33 ◼   ► but also like what they base it on.

00:29:34 ◼   ► Do they base it on that new MacBook Air enclosure?

00:29:37 ◼   ► What happens to the 13 inch MacBook Pro?

00:29:39 ◼   ► Does it turn into something else?

00:29:42 ◼   ► It's all kind of like hovering out there.

00:29:44 ◼   ► They got a lot of choices to make here,

00:29:46 ◼   ► but they, I feel like the MacBook Air name now

00:29:49 ◼   ► probably isn't gonna go away,

00:29:51 ◼   ► but maybe there's a space for a product in between.

00:29:53 ◼   ► - I would really struggle with a 15 inch computer

00:29:56 ◼   ► called Air.

00:29:57 ◼   ► - It doesn't really follow, right?

00:29:59 ◼   ► - No, it doesn't work.

00:30:00 ◼   ► - So having it be a MacBook,

00:30:02 ◼   ► and having it be in that kind of like intermediate state.

00:30:06 ◼   ► Again, we have to make assumptions

00:30:09 ◼   ► about what this new MacBook Air is gonna look like.

00:30:10 ◼   ► But I can see a scenario where what Apple says is,

00:30:13 ◼   ► look, we're gonna keep the MacBook Air around

00:30:15 ◼   ► and the goal there is it's thin and light,

00:30:17 ◼   ► and maybe it's even thin and light and low cost.

00:30:20 ◼   ► And then we're gonna make the MacBook.

00:30:21 ◼   ► And the MacBook is gonna be similar,

00:30:23 ◼   ► but the idea with the MacBook is we're not as worried

00:30:26 ◼   ► about size and weight.

00:30:27 ◼   ► We want it to be kind of less than the MacBook Pro

00:30:30 ◼   ► in terms of price, but we're not,

00:30:33 ◼   ► the goal there is not the size and the weight.

00:30:35 ◼   ► The goal there is just to have a good solid Mac

00:30:38 ◼   ► for people to buy.

00:30:39 ◼   ► And the people who want to opt for the Air

00:30:41 ◼   ► will opt for the Air, and the people who want the MacBook

00:30:43 ◼   ► will get the MacBook.

00:30:44 ◼   ► And that makes more sense.

00:30:46 ◼   ► - Oh, Jason, I've just thought of something

00:30:49 ◼   ► which is maybe the worst of these

00:30:50 ◼   ► and might actually be the way that they go.

00:30:53 ◼   ► The new one is called MacBook,

00:30:56 ◼   ► and it's the colorful one, right?

00:30:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:30:59 ◼   ► - What we're thinking is the new MacBook Air,

00:31:01 ◼   ► and it comes in two sizes,

00:31:03 ◼   ► and they keep the current MacBook Air around

00:31:04 ◼   ► as the MacBook Air for a while.

00:31:06 ◼   ► - Huh.

00:31:08 ◼   ► I mean, it's possible, right?

00:31:10 ◼   ► It's possible they would keep the old one around.

00:31:12 ◼   ► - Well, that would let them do it,

00:31:13 ◼   ► 'cause I think, ultimately, they should drop the Air name.

00:31:17 ◼   ► I think it's only stuck around,

00:31:18 ◼   ► because the MacBook that they'd released,

00:31:22 ◼   ► that was clearly supposed to be the new one,

00:31:25 ◼   ► nobody liked it, and it was more expensive.

00:31:27 ◼   ► - It was overpriced.

00:31:29 ◼   ► - So they couldn't get rid of the MacBook Air.

00:31:31 ◼   ► - Right, and the MacBook Air was still selling at 999.

00:31:34 ◼   ► You're right, I mean, and once you start,

00:31:37 ◼   ► and again, keep in mind what happened here too,

00:31:39 ◼   ► which is when they did revise the MacBook Air,

00:31:41 ◼   ► they literally said in that, that was the Brooklyn event,

00:31:44 ◼   ► they're like, "We're playing the hits here."

00:31:47 ◼   ► Like we kept the wedge shape and we kept the curves

00:31:50 ◼   ► and like that they redesigned,

00:31:51 ◼   ► they designed that new version of the MacBook Air

00:31:55 ◼   ► to be as much like the old version of the MacBook Air

00:31:59 ◼   ► as possible, which is funny.

00:32:01 ◼   ► They're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:32:03 ◼   ► just give them what they want, give them what they want.

00:32:04 ◼   ► But I, and so that's what they had to fight against

00:32:07 ◼   ► is the question of like, do people love this thing so much

00:32:10 ◼   ► that we should just keep it around?

00:32:11 ◼   ► But I think you're right.

00:32:12 ◼   ► One way to go is, I know I said this in another context,

00:32:15 ◼   ► So it's whether they call it air or not.

00:32:17 ◼   ► I really think it's possible that they will keep

00:32:20 ◼   ► the MacBook Air M1 around at 999.

00:32:23 ◼   ► And this new MacBook Air that's coming out

00:32:25 ◼   ► won't be 999, right?

00:32:27 ◼   ► It's gonna be 1299 or something like that.

00:32:30 ◼   ► And they're gonna have two of these MacBook Airs.

00:32:32 ◼   ► They're gonna have the colorful fancy one.

00:32:34 ◼   ► The other way they could do it is they could just say,

00:32:35 ◼   ► no, this is the new Air, it's 999 and that's it.

00:32:37 ◼   ► But that's part of the mystery here is

00:32:40 ◼   ► what is the target for that product?

00:32:41 ◼   ► And then what do they do beyond it?

00:32:44 ◼   ► And that's, I don't know, but they could,

00:32:46 ◼   ► they could call that this MacBook and use it

00:32:48 ◼   ► as the opportunity to get rid of the name Air.

00:32:50 ◼   ► - Mark Gurman is expecting the next iPad Pro

00:32:53 ◼   ► to feature both an M2 chip and MagSafe charging

00:32:57 ◼   ► to be released in the fall of 2022.

00:33:00 ◼   ► I can't get my head around what the MagSafe

00:33:02 ◼   ► would look like on this thing.

00:33:04 ◼   ► What is it?

00:33:04 ◼   ► - I don't, I mean.

00:33:07 ◼   ► - Is it iPhone MagSafe?

00:33:09 ◼   ► Is it MacBook MagSafe?

00:33:10 ◼   ► Is it a third MagSafe?

00:33:12 ◼   ► - Third MagSafe.

00:33:13 ◼   ► That I don't want.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Here's my thing, Apple,

00:33:16 ◼   ► if you're gonna introduce a third MagSafe,

00:33:18 ◼   ► just don't do it, would be my recommendation to you.

00:33:21 ◼   ► We don't need that.

00:33:23 ◼   ► - I mean, iPad Pro already being kind of Mac like

00:33:26 ◼   ► in some ways, I could see them doing it

00:33:28 ◼   ► as just a MagSafe connector on the side.

00:33:30 ◼   ► - And they should do that.

00:33:32 ◼   ► It would be awesome, right?

00:33:32 ◼   ► That'd be really great if they did that.

00:33:35 ◼   ► I would love that.

00:33:36 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:33:37 ◼   ► - And then the USB-C port would be like, you know,

00:33:39 ◼   ► even, you know, people would say,

00:33:42 ◼   ► it all you should add two USB-C ports on these things but now you won't need to because you

00:33:45 ◼   ► can always have one free so I think that would be pretty cool. I don't want another MagSafe

00:33:49 ◼   ► right like don't create another MagSafe standard and I don't think the iPhone one is the right

00:33:53 ◼   ► bet here so I would agree with you that I would love to see the Mac style for MagSafe.

00:34:00 ◼   ► And we go back to Mark Gurman for our final rumour in the rumour round up today. Mark

00:34:05 ◼   ► Gurman is reporting that Apple is working on a new subscription service for hardware

00:34:09 ◼   ► products. This would allow a customer to pay a monthly fee to get new devices. The expectation

00:34:16 ◼   ► is this would lower the barrier to entry for many customers, allowing for more people to

00:34:20 ◼   ► get the newest products more easily, increasing not just Apple's recurring revenue, but leading

00:34:26 ◼   ► to greater overall revenue. I read from a quote from Mark's Bloomberg article here,

00:34:31 ◼   ► "The program would differ from an installment program," like I will add in, like the iPhone

00:34:36 ◼   ► upgrade program in that the monthly charge wouldn't be the price of the

00:34:40 ◼   ► device split across 12 or 24 months rather it would be a yet to be determined

00:34:46 ◼   ► monthly fee that depends on which device the user chooses and I'll add in it's

00:34:51 ◼   ► very possible that you would probably then be able to upgrade automatically to

00:34:55 ◼   ► the new version when it becomes available if this happens it will

00:34:59 ◼   ► probably be a 2023 thing and could possibly be bundled into Apple's

00:35:02 ◼   ► existing bundles. Yeah, upgrade, how this relates to the iPhone upgrade program is

00:35:09 ◼   ► interesting. My read on this, and you know, I don't know, just my first read

00:35:14 ◼   ► on this is, this is Apple saying we want to convert this kind of loan program

00:35:20 ◼   ► that we do where it's a loan and we've got partners and we just want to convert

00:35:25 ◼   ► it to something we own entirely that's a straight up bit of services. And we're

00:35:29 ◼   ► going to—and so that they would be—for the user, it might not be structured very

00:35:34 ◼   ► differently, but internally, the way the program was financed and accounted for would be different.

00:35:41 ◼   ► I mean, they'd probably stop working with, like, a third party too, right, which I know

00:35:48 ◼   ► they currently do now, and maybe want to set this up themselves. Like, I think of Microsoft.

00:35:55 ◼   ► had a lot of success with the Xbox in the past couple of years where they

00:35:59 ◼   ► bundle them with Game Pass, they charge you a monthly fee but it doesn't cost

00:36:04 ◼   ► you any extra. Like you know usually with these things you're paying a premium

00:36:07 ◼   ► right like you're paying some kind of interest but that isn't how it works

00:36:11 ◼   ► here so you just you're paying them every month anyway because you're paying

00:36:14 ◼   ► for Game Pass so you add a little bit more and you get yourself an Xbox and

00:36:18 ◼   ► this has proven very well for Microsoft over the last year so maybe this is a

00:36:22 ◼   ► the route Apple's gonna go to.

00:36:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, Apple loves training people

00:36:26 ◼   ► to give them money monthly, right?

00:36:28 ◼   ► And this would be, have some interesting options too

00:36:30 ◼   ► in terms of saying, you know, when the new iPhone comes out,

00:36:34 ◼   ► you basically just choose your level and they give you,

00:36:36 ◼   ► they can literally just say, here's what the prices are.

00:36:39 ◼   ► And those prices are in monthly fee.

00:36:41 ◼   ► - Yup.

00:36:42 ◼   ► - It also, you know, also means you're not buying it.

00:36:45 ◼   ► You're just getting it as part of your service.

00:36:50 ◼   ► I know Microsoft has that thing where after a while,

00:36:52 ◼   ► you own it or something like that. But like, yeah, I don't know. It may not structure,

00:36:57 ◼   ► it may not feel in the end as a user, if you're on the upgrade program, like it's that different.

00:37:02 ◼   ► It'll be interesting to see how they structure it, but it may feel very familiar. I wonder if

00:37:06 ◼   ► the benefit here is more to Apple and gives them flexibility to maybe change the pricing based on

00:37:11 ◼   ► your participation in other bundles or bundling it with other services and being able to alter

00:37:17 ◼   ► the pricing that way rather than keeping it separate like they do with the upgrade program.

00:37:22 ◼   ► I don't know.

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00:39:11 ◼   ► Well, they darn did it.

00:39:13 ◼   ► Apple done did it, Jason.

00:39:15 ◼   ► They did it.

00:39:17 ◼   ► I can't believe this happened.

00:39:18 ◼   ► I cannot believe this happened.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Apple TV+ becomes the first streaming platform

00:39:22 ◼   ► to win Best Picture.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Yep.

00:39:25 ◼   ► So Coda.

00:39:25 ◼   ► We've mentioned Coda a few times on the show.

00:39:28 ◼   ► Coda is notable as being a movie that both features

00:39:33 ◼   ► stars and crew who are all hearing impaired.

00:39:37 ◼   ► And this is basically what the entire movie is about.

00:39:40 ◼   ► I haven't actually seen Coda.

00:39:41 ◼   ► You've seen it, right?

00:39:42 ◼   ► - I've seen it in one of my favorite movies of last year.

00:39:44 ◼   ► It's a movie that- - It's on our list.

00:39:46 ◼   ► - It's a good movie.

00:39:49 ◼   ► It is structurally, I think, a very familiar story.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And I think that a lot of people have issues

00:39:54 ◼   ► with the fact that it does read,

00:39:55 ◼   ► the synopsis of it reads very much like a,

00:39:58 ◼   ► you know, made for TV, Lifetime movie

00:40:00 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:40:01 ◼   ► It's not, but what I like about it is all of the details.

00:40:05 ◼   ► I think all of the details are good.

00:40:07 ◼   ► I think it makes some really good creative decisions

00:40:10 ◼   ► in every moment of the film.

00:40:13 ◼   ► I love the setting.

00:40:15 ◼   ► I enjoy the characters, the family.

00:40:17 ◼   ► They're so clearly drawn and memorable.

00:40:21 ◼   ► Just a lot, that's the beauty of it to me.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So plus, yes, it is deaf, mostly deaf crew,

00:40:30 ◼   ► our cast and I think crew.

00:40:34 ◼   ► And yeah, the writer-director is not,

00:40:36 ◼   ► but, and Troy Kotzer, who plays the dad,

00:40:39 ◼   ► won Best Supporting Actor as well.

00:40:42 ◼   ► And CNN Hater, who was the writer and director,

00:40:47 ◼   ► won Best--

00:40:48 ◼   ► - Best Adapted Screenplay.

00:40:49 ◼   ► - Screenplay.

00:40:51 ◼   ► - So that basically as well,

00:40:53 ◼   ► I think it's called They Ran the Board,

00:40:55 ◼   ► I don't remember the phrase,

00:40:55 ◼   ► but every Oscar they were nominated for, they won.

00:40:59 ◼   ► - Yep. - So it was three.

00:41:00 ◼   ► So Apple now has three Oscars under their belt,

00:41:04 ◼   ► but the big one is the fact that they won Best Picture.

00:41:07 ◼   ► They were the first streaming platform to do this.

00:41:09 ◼   ► Netflix have been trying.

00:41:11 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:41:11 ◼   ► - I think going into the Oscars up until maybe

00:41:13 ◼   ► like a week ago, everyone thought the big dog movie

00:41:16 ◼   ► with a thing called the Power of the Dog.

00:41:18 ◼   ► - Power of the Dog.

00:41:19 ◼   ► - With Benedict Cumberbatch.

00:41:21 ◼   ► - There are dogs visible in it, but it is--

00:41:24 ◼   ► - It's not about a dog?

00:41:25 ◼   ► - Those are not the titular dogs, no they're not.

00:41:27 ◼   ► I saw it this weekend, so now I know all about

00:41:29 ◼   ► the Power of the Dog.

00:41:30 ◼   ► I have felt the Power of the Dog.

00:41:31 ◼   ► - Everyone thought that was gonna win,

00:41:33 ◼   ► and then there was like a turn in Hollywood, right?

00:41:35 ◼   ► Where then all of a sudden Coda was the front runner.

00:41:38 ◼   ► A lot of people I saw who follow Hollywood's stuff closely,

00:41:43 ◼   ► who were tweeting before the event were saying,

00:41:47 ◼   ► "The vibe is so funny because the vibe is very much like

00:41:52 ◼   ► they don't want Netflix to win

00:41:54 ◼   ► and they do want Apple to win."

00:41:56 ◼   ► Which is funny because they're like,

00:41:58 ◼   ► "We don't want this giant tech company

00:42:00 ◼   ► invading our movie industry.

00:42:03 ◼   ► Do you know about the other giant tech company

00:42:06 ◼   ► that's invading your movie industry?"

00:42:07 ◼   ► But the difference is that Apple, first off,

00:42:10 ◼   ► all of these people in Hollywood, they love Apple,

00:42:12 ◼   ► they love Apple's products,

00:42:13 ◼   ► they're all using Apple's products.

00:42:15 ◼   ► And I think Apple and Apple's executives are perceived as,

00:42:18 ◼   ► in some ways, as doing it the right way,

00:42:21 ◼   ► that they are not viewed as a disruptive force

00:42:24 ◼   ► like Netflix is.

00:42:25 ◼   ► - They have done a really good job, I think,

00:42:27 ◼   ► of setting themselves into Hollywood now.

00:42:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, they hired Zack and Jamie from Sony,

00:42:34 ◼   ► and they brought in a bunch of people

00:42:35 ◼   ► to do their movie side now,

00:42:37 ◼   ► and they're perceived as being friendly to talent

00:42:40 ◼   ► in a way that Netflix is not

00:42:44 ◼   ► and friendly to the movie industry

00:42:46 ◼   ► in a way that Netflix is not.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Which is not to say that there aren't issues.

00:42:51 ◼   ► Like there was a story, I forget where it was,

00:42:54 ◼   ► there was a story about the history of CODA

00:42:56 ◼   ► this week that I read.

00:42:57 ◼   ► - It was in Puck News, you sent it to me.

00:42:59 ◼   ► - Oh, it was Puck, that's right.

00:43:00 ◼   ► - It's behind a paywall.

00:43:01 ◼   ► - It's a paywall, but it was a really good story

00:43:05 ◼   ► about how Apple wants to own everything worldwide.

00:43:08 ◼   ► And when they bought, so they bought "Koda" at Sundance.

00:43:12 ◼   ► So it's also, I think, the first Sundance movie

00:43:14 ◼   ► to win best picture.

00:43:16 ◼   ► They bought it at Sundance. - Really? Huh.

00:43:17 ◼   ► - But I think so.

00:43:18 ◼   ► But anyway, regardless of that,

00:43:21 ◼   ► like of these movies that got,

00:43:22 ◼   ► that was, somebody said that,

00:43:24 ◼   ► I don't know if that's true or not,

00:43:25 ◼   ► but it was a Sundance movie.

00:43:26 ◼   ► And then they go to the film festival

00:43:28 ◼   ► with these indie movies and then people bid for them.

00:43:30 ◼   ► And Apple bought it,

00:43:31 ◼   ► but they had already sold some of their rights

00:43:32 ◼   ► to overseas distribution.

00:43:35 ◼   ► They'd bought some European, I think, countries,

00:43:38 ◼   ► people had bought it to theatrically screen there.

00:43:40 ◼   ► And Apple said, "Well, that's good,

00:43:41 ◼   ► but we gotta buy it all back."

00:43:44 ◼   ► 'Cause we want it all.

00:43:45 ◼   ► And that that's one of the challenges that Apple has.

00:43:47 ◼   ► And that Apple has changed its tune,

00:43:48 ◼   ► 'cause people were kind of grumpy that they're like,

00:43:51 ◼   ► and that it makes it hard to sell your indie film

00:43:53 ◼   ► if you're afraid to sell parts of it,

00:43:56 ◼   ► to earn your money back,

00:43:57 ◼   ► because what if a streamer comes in and buys the whole thing?

00:44:01 ◼   ► And then when they started to put things in the contract

00:44:03 ◼   ► that said, well, we're selling you the rights,

00:44:05 ◼   ► but if a streamer comes in to buy the whole thing,

00:44:06 ◼   ► you lose the rights and we give you your money back.

00:44:08 ◼   ► And the people who are buying rights were like,

00:44:10 ◼   ► no, we're not gonna do that.

00:44:11 ◼   ► We're not gonna agree to that.

00:44:12 ◼   ► And it sounds like Apple has adapted

00:44:15 ◼   ► and has been more willing to not buy every single country

00:44:19 ◼   ► or to work with a rights holder,

00:44:20 ◼   ► to come up with some sort of way

00:44:21 ◼   ► where they screen it in their country.

00:44:23 ◼   ► And then they're working about it.

00:44:25 ◼   ► But it's interesting that this was more complicated

00:44:27 ◼   ► than just Apple writing a check at Sundance for Coda.

00:44:31 ◼   ► They actually had to unwind.

00:44:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, they bought this one a while ago.

00:44:34 ◼   ► This was one of their earlier purchases, I think.

00:44:36 ◼   ► - But they're positively thought of in Hollywood,

00:44:38 ◼   ► and I think that's really interesting that Netflix

00:44:40 ◼   ► is seen as this big bad disruptor.

00:44:41 ◼   ► And Apple is just, because Apple was sort of

00:44:45 ◼   ► later to the game and its ambitions

00:44:47 ◼   ► are a little more constrained,

00:44:49 ◼   ► and also because it's Apple, honestly,

00:44:51 ◼   ► and Apple is viewed positively by the people in Hollywood

00:44:54 ◼   ► because they make the products that the people

00:44:56 ◼   ► Hollywood love, right? And that is an advantage for Apple even though it's, you know, the people

00:45:01 ◼   ► designing Macs are not the people who are buying movies, but it's still all part of that kind of

00:45:06 ◼   ► gestalt for Apple. So people were much more positive. And I gotta say, I think that's one

00:45:13 ◼   ► of the reasons Coda won and Power of the Dog didn't, is that the people in the Academy have

00:45:17 ◼   ► much more positive feelings about Apple than they do about Netflix, even though, yes, Apple is a

00:45:22 ◼   ► giant tech company because what Apple represents to them is not what Netflix represents to them.

00:45:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, Netflix came away with one Oscar. Apple had three. I think I saw that. So

00:45:31 ◼   ► Netflix walked in and walked out, I think, feeling very differently. It went very strangely for them.

00:45:38 ◼   ► I will say like one thing that I think from our perspective, which is just like an interesting

00:45:42 ◼   ► parallel, is this whole situation plays into Apple's typical playbook so well, arrive late,

00:45:50 ◼   ► do it best. Now what I will say is I don't think this is holding out for the long term,

00:45:54 ◼   ► but like for the story of right now, like as of today, that's the way it seems to have occurred,

00:46:00 ◼   ► right? Because there's been lots of stories and like lots of the talking about the fact that

00:46:04 ◼   ► Netflix have been working on this to get best picture for years, right? Like they had, was it

00:46:11 ◼   ► Roma? They had the Irishman. And then this one, I think there might have been a couple more as well,

00:46:17 ◼   ► but like they have been very specifically targeting,

00:46:21 ◼   ► 'cause of course you would,

00:46:22 ◼   ► best picture at the Oscars is a big frigging deal, right?

00:46:25 ◼   ► And so everyone targets it if you're in this business,

00:46:28 ◼   ► it's what you want, right?

00:46:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and we've been talking about,

00:46:33 ◼   ► since Apple started to get into this,

00:46:35 ◼   ► we, you know, obviously we talked about it

00:46:37 ◼   ► when it was all just rumors

00:46:38 ◼   ► and then we've seen it kind of come to fruition now,

00:46:40 ◼   ► it's really kind of funny that,

00:46:41 ◼   ► that event where they launched Apple TV+

00:46:43 ◼   ► was three years ago,

00:46:44 ◼   ► where they had Steven Spielberg and Jason Momoa

00:46:47 ◼   ► come out on stage and all that.

00:46:48 ◼   ► That was three years ago and here we are,

00:46:49 ◼   ► they won best picture.

00:46:51 ◼   ► But we talked throughout,

00:46:53 ◼   ► and I know we talked about it a hundred episodes ago,

00:46:56 ◼   ► that one of the ways the strategy is validated

00:46:59 ◼   ► and it makes the company kind of like feel good

00:47:02 ◼   ► and say, see, we're not just hemorrhaging money here,

00:47:05 ◼   ► we care and we make good content.

00:47:08 ◼   ► Like it isn't something that goes directly

00:47:12 ◼   ► to the balance sheet, but getting recognition matters.

00:47:15 ◼   ► and you could see how much getting recognition

00:47:18 ◼   ► mattered to Apple.

00:47:19 ◼   ► It's why those very early nominations

00:47:23 ◼   ► for the morning show were a big deal.

00:47:25 ◼   ► And that one, remember, Billy Crudup won

00:47:27 ◼   ► a supporting actor award from somewhere, SAG,

00:47:30 ◼   ► or Golden Globes or something.

00:47:32 ◼   ► And we're like, oh, Apple's really gonna make hay with that.

00:47:34 ◼   ► And then Ted Lasso happened.

00:47:36 ◼   ► And Ted Lasso ended up being strangely the thing

00:47:39 ◼   ► that was like the big deal where Apple is like,

00:47:41 ◼   ► see, we dominated.

00:47:43 ◼   ► And I'll just, so now there's this,

00:47:45 ◼   ► and it's meaningful to Apple

00:47:47 ◼   ► and it's meaningful to all the other streamers.

00:47:49 ◼   ► It would be meaningful to Amazon and to Netflix.

00:47:51 ◼   ► I think it's also funny to think that now there's a,

00:47:55 ◼   ► Apple is the reigning champion of best comedy at the Emmys

00:47:59 ◼   ► and best picture at the Oscars on Apple TV+.

00:48:03 ◼   ► What?

00:48:03 ◼   ► - I mean, but like this is that thing, right?

00:48:06 ◼   ► Like where it is too early to call it,

00:48:09 ◼   ► but this is the situation, this is what they do.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Like in technology, this is what they do, right?

00:48:14 ◼   ► Like it's the old thing of like Apple arrives late

00:48:17 ◼   ► to the game, but they always do it better

00:48:19 ◼   ► than everyone else, you know, asterisk, asterisk.

00:48:22 ◼   ► - Well, it's hard because they're going into an area

00:48:24 ◼   ► that they didn't know.

00:48:25 ◼   ► And I think that this is the key where they did their stuff

00:48:27 ◼   ► where they were tinkering around with video content, right?

00:48:29 ◼   ► And that's- - Planet of the Apps.

00:48:30 ◼   ► - And so Planet of the Apps, everybody brings it up.

00:48:32 ◼   ► And when they hired what, Jamie Ehrlich and Zach Van Amburg,

00:48:37 ◼   ► Zach and Jamie, the pair from Sony, when they hired them,

00:48:40 ◼   ► everybody was like, "Oh boy, more Planet of the Apps."

00:48:42 ◼   ► And I was like, no, no, no, this is Apple admitting

00:48:45 ◼   ► that Eddie Q is not gonna make great TV and movies, right?

00:48:50 ◼   ► That it needs to be people who understand the business

00:48:53 ◼   ► and understand the people.

00:48:55 ◼   ► And they set up their offices in LA with Zach and Jamie,

00:48:59 ◼   ► and they got to work and they hired a bunch of respected TV

00:49:01 ◼   ► and film executives from all over the world.

00:49:04 ◼   ► And they had a strategy and we can see the strategy now,

00:49:08 ◼   ► right, the strategy is be like HBO was.

00:49:11 ◼   ► The strategy was be a little picky

00:49:13 ◼   ► and come up with some like,

00:49:16 ◼   ► and pay for quality and pay for high profile talent.

00:49:20 ◼   ► And not everything's gonna be a hit.

00:49:22 ◼   ► And of course, everybody who's waiting to feed the narrative

00:49:24 ◼   ► that Apple doesn't know what it's doing in Hollywood

00:49:26 ◼   ► is gonna pick on the stuff that does not become

00:49:29 ◼   ► a great success and make jokes about it.

00:49:31 ◼   ► But the truth is nobody has a track record

00:49:34 ◼   ► of perfection in Hollywood.

00:49:36 ◼   ► You pick your spots and then you,

00:49:38 ◼   ► if you create a good system

00:49:40 ◼   ► where you're picking the right stuff,

00:49:42 ◼   ► some of it's gonna hit.

00:49:43 ◼   ► And "Tetlasso" hit, obviously "Coda" has one best picture.

00:49:48 ◼   ► I would say that you see it with some of the other stuff

00:49:50 ◼   ► that's coming on Apple now.

00:49:52 ◼   ► There's a huge undercurrent of "Severance" fandom

00:49:57 ◼   ► that I keep hearing people discover "Severance"

00:50:01 ◼   ► which I've only seen episode one of and I loved it,

00:50:04 ◼   ► but that's the Adam Scott TV show.

00:50:06 ◼   ► - Oh, I haven't seen that yet, but it's on the list.

00:50:09 ◼   ► directed by Ben Stiller.

00:50:11 ◼   ► I keep seeing people discover it and say,

00:50:13 ◼   ► "This is amazingly good."

00:50:15 ◼   ► - I'm scared of it.

00:50:16 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like a little bit thriller-y.

00:50:18 ◼   ► I'm like a little bit like, I want to see it,

00:50:20 ◼   ► but like I'm nervous.

00:50:21 ◼   ► - So anyway, there's a lot of this stuff.

00:50:23 ◼   ► So like this is, I think could Apple TV+

00:50:26 ◼   ► have been a colossal failure?

00:50:27 ◼   ► Yes.

00:50:28 ◼   ► Are they spending way more money

00:50:29 ◼   ► than they're taking in for this?

00:50:32 ◼   ► Yes, but I think it serves a larger strategy for Apple.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And I think one of the things that they really wanted

00:50:38 ◼   ► was validation that like they are serious about this

00:50:41 ◼   ► and they are not gonna be falling all over themselves

00:50:44 ◼   ► making crappy content like Planet of the Apps

00:50:46 ◼   ► or something like that and Carpool Karaoke.

00:50:48 ◼   ► Like that was not what they were doing

00:50:50 ◼   ► once they hired Jamie and Zach.

00:50:53 ◼   ► This is what they were gonna do.

00:50:54 ◼   ► And this is just, you know, they have arrived.

00:50:58 ◼   ► This is, you know, we can talk about like

00:51:00 ◼   ► what role they play in the streaming future

00:51:03 ◼   ► and whether there's room for a more niche player

00:51:06 ◼   ► like Apple is right now.

00:51:07 ◼   ► But when you look at the Emmy nominations

00:51:09 ◼   ► and the Oscar nominations and the wins

00:51:11 ◼   ► and all the trophies that they're picking up,

00:51:13 ◼   ► it sounds like they have a way to be relevant

00:51:16 ◼   ► even if they're not producing at the level

00:51:18 ◼   ► of something like Netflix.

00:51:19 ◼   ► So it's a, I mean, they should take a victory lap.

00:51:22 ◼   ► They should be doing some power sliding on Infinite Loop,

00:51:24 ◼   ► right, like this morning, get out there.

00:51:26 ◼   ► - I mean, it's early in the day, but I'm thorough, for us,

00:51:29 ◼   ► but I'm thoroughly expecting an apple.com takeover

00:51:32 ◼   ► of the webpage at the moment.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Currently it says Academy Award nominee,

00:51:36 ◼   ► best picture coder, like halfway down the page, I'm expecting that the apple.com webpage

00:51:41 ◼   ► will look very different at some point today.

00:51:43 ◼   ► - Probably.

00:51:44 ◼   ► - Something I wanted to just touch on a little bit, I've been seeing some people talk about

00:51:47 ◼   ► this online, saying, oh, this isn't an Apple original, like some of the TV shows, as if

00:51:52 ◼   ► it's like they didn't do the work for this.

00:51:55 ◼   ► This isn't how the movie part of this works.

00:51:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, you make a deal at various points, and Apple is spinning up their own

00:52:02 ◼   ► Apple you know production shingle where they can produce movies themselves

00:52:06 ◼   ► But that feels like that's gonna be more TV than it is movies

00:52:09 ◼   ► But like the movie like so I looked into this a little bit

00:52:11 ◼   ► So the one that we're talking about the power of the dog the Netflix movie that wasn't a Netflix original

00:52:16 ◼   ► They bought that like this happens a lot like the movies get there's like a lot of production companies

00:52:22 ◼   ► And they make the movies and they take them to film festivals and they get bought

00:52:25 ◼   ► But like the difference which I will understand is when a movie wins best picture

00:52:31 ◼   ► people don't usually focus on universal pictures

00:52:34 ◼   ► as part of the story, right?

00:52:36 ◼   ► - But this is the first movie that was, you know,

00:52:40 ◼   ► basically exclusive to a streaming service

00:52:42 ◼   ► to win Best Picture, and that's why it's notable.

00:52:44 ◼   ► Remember when we were saying like,

00:52:45 ◼   ► Apple was like, oh, the historic nominations for Coda,

00:52:47 ◼   ► and we're like, what are they exactly?

00:52:49 ◼   ► And the answer was, because it's a primarily deaf cast

00:52:51 ◼   ► and all that was what they were going for.

00:52:53 ◼   ► Well, here's another barrier broken,

00:52:55 ◼   ► which is streaming service movie wins Best Picture.

00:52:59 ◼   ► That's a big deal.

00:53:00 ◼   ► No, but they bought it at Sundance.

00:53:02 ◼   ► This is true.

00:53:03 ◼   ► But at the same time, this is a movie

00:53:05 ◼   ► that premiered on Apple TV.

00:53:08 ◼   ► It's on Apple TV.

00:53:09 ◼   ► It's domestic.

00:53:10 ◼   ► It's reported US domestic box office is $0

00:53:13 ◼   ► and it won best picture.

00:53:14 ◼   ► It's pretty wild.

00:53:17 ◼   ► And again, they get the credit not for making the movie,

00:53:19 ◼   ► but for buying the movie and also for promoting the movie

00:53:22 ◼   ► and spending more than $10 million on their Oscar campaign.

00:53:25 ◼   ► And they got the trophy for it.

00:53:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's how it looks, right?

00:53:29 ◼   ► This is how it works.

00:53:31 ◼   ► - This is how it works.

00:53:32 ◼   ► - The difference is, as you say,

00:53:32 ◼   ► usually we don't focus on it, like who is behind it.

00:53:35 ◼   ► It's usually like we focus on the cast, the crew,

00:53:38 ◼   ► that kind of thing.

00:53:39 ◼   ► It's not so much.

00:53:40 ◼   ► However, I'm sure that there are pockets of this, right?

00:53:44 ◼   ► So like if it's a Marvel movie, we focus on that.

00:53:46 ◼   ► You know, if a Marvel movie is to win Best Picture,

00:53:48 ◼   ► we're like, "Oh wow, Marvel movies want Best Picture."

00:53:50 ◼   ► So there are these little fiefdoms.

00:53:52 ◼   ► I'm naturally going to assume

00:53:56 ◼   ► that there will be an Oscars-focused episode of Downstream.

00:53:59 ◼   ► I would think we'll talk about it at least quite a lot,

00:54:01 ◼   ► but that'll be next week.

00:54:02 ◼   ► - At least quite a lot.

00:54:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I look forward to it.

00:54:04 ◼   ► So if people enjoyed this conversation--

00:54:05 ◼   ► - There's a lot going on.

00:54:06 ◼   ► - And they want more of the, yeah, there sure is.

00:54:08 ◼   ► And they want more of the wider context

00:54:10 ◼   ► of the effect of the Oscars.

00:54:12 ◼   ► You can go check out Downstream here on Real AFM,

00:54:14 ◼   ► featuring Jason Snell and the very wonderful

00:54:17 ◼   ► Julia Alexander who does a fantastic job.

00:54:19 ◼   ► You two, I really love it.

00:54:20 ◼   ► - I just ask her the questions and then she talks

00:54:22 ◼   ► and she gets paid to think about this all day.

00:54:24 ◼   ► Like that's what she does, so it's great.

00:54:26 ◼   ► She has such a great perspective on it.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Alright I want to thank our next sponsor of this week's episode and that is our friends over at Fitbod.

00:54:33 ◼   ► I really love Fitbod and I use it all the time because balancing between work, family and everything else

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00:56:43 ◼   ► Okay, so there's episode 400.

00:56:45 ◼   ► Yeah, happy 400.

00:56:47 ◼   ► So we're gonna be scoring a draft.

00:56:50 ◼   ► We are!

00:56:51 ◼   ► Surprise!

00:56:52 ◼   ► Surprise!

00:56:53 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:56:54 ◼   ► I think we forgot we did this for a while.

00:56:58 ◼   ► I did, and then it came up in my to-do list a couple of months ago as a thing that I needed

00:57:03 ◼   ► to check, and I was like, "What does that mean?"

00:57:05 ◼   ► And then I went to the wonderful upgrade.cards, which is put together and maintained by a

00:57:10 ◼   ► friend of the show, Zach Knox, on episode 300 of this here upgrade program, which was

00:57:17 ◼   ► many moons ago. When exactly was that? Let me see. Upgrade 300. It was all the way back

00:57:25 ◼   ► in June of 2020. June 1st, 2020. We did a draft in episode 300 of things that we think

00:57:34 ◼   ► may or may not happen in a hundred episodes time. And here we are today, 100 episodes

00:57:41 ◼   ► later. So here's the funniest thing about this is because Apple, because of the pandemic,

00:57:47 ◼   ► which we were already in when we recorded episode 300,

00:57:50 ◼   ► but because of the pandemic,

00:57:51 ◼   ► Apple ended up changing its way that it announced events

00:57:55 ◼   ► to be a week's notice,

00:57:56 ◼   ► which meant that this episode is actually happening

00:57:59 ◼   ► like a month before we thought it would.

00:58:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:58:02 ◼   ► - Because we had to do so many bonus episodes

00:58:06 ◼   ► in order to do our draft.

00:58:08 ◼   ► - Like luckily I had prepared against myself for there

00:58:10 ◼   ► by setting that task way in advance.

00:58:12 ◼   ► And today when I set my task for episode 500,

00:58:17 ◼   ► which is in obviously 100 weeks from now,

00:58:19 ◼   ► all the way out in February of 2024,

00:58:22 ◼   ► 'cause we're gonna be doing another draft today.

00:58:24 ◼   ► I said it in like January. - January 1st.

00:58:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, in January 2024 to remember that we got it.

00:58:29 ◼   ► - You never know how many episodes of Upgrades

00:58:31 ◼   ► you're gonna do.

00:58:31 ◼   ► - We will start by scoring the episode 400 draft

00:58:36 ◼   ► that we did in episode 300,

00:58:38 ◼   ► and then we're gonna be making more draft predictions today

00:58:41 ◼   ► for episode 500.

00:58:42 ◼   ► - Now, before we get started, I just wanna point out,

00:58:43 ◼   ► I listened to some of this today,

00:58:45 ◼   ► 'cause of course we record these

00:58:46 ◼   ► and then have no memory of them later.

00:58:48 ◼   ► And I listened to it and I asked you then,

00:58:51 ◼   ► and it's funny 'cause I was thinking this now,

00:58:53 ◼   ► and I actually asked you about it then,

00:58:54 ◼   ► which is does this count toward the winner

00:58:57 ◼   ► of the overall upgrade draft champion for the year of 2022?

00:59:02 ◼   ► Or is it more of an exhibition?

00:59:05 ◼   ► And your response was,

00:59:06 ◼   ► I think it's an exhibition unless I win it.

00:59:09 ◼   ► - Yes, I stand by that today.

00:59:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:59:14 ◼   ► And I will say for now, for episode 500,

00:59:17 ◼   ► this is purely an exhibition.

00:59:19 ◼   ► - Okay, thank you.

00:59:20 ◼   ► - This does not count, either way.

00:59:22 ◼   ► - It's just for fun.

00:59:23 ◼   ► - Because it's weird, right?

00:59:24 ◼   ► Like it doesn't act like the other drafts in its own way.

00:59:29 ◼   ► Like the pricks are very different,

00:59:31 ◼   ► it's a lot more nebulous.

00:59:33 ◼   ► And plus, to me, like, I mean, we'll talk about this maybe,

00:59:36 ◼   ► but when I was thinking of my picks for this draft

00:59:39 ◼   ► we're about to do in a bit,

00:59:41 ◼   ► I was picking things that initially,

00:59:43 ◼   ► thinking it's like this is going to be in like 2025. It's like, yeah, like really far

00:59:48 ◼   ► it's like no no no no no. You gotta scale it back. That happened 100 episodes ago too

00:59:53 ◼   ► where you said at some point you know you were reminded that it was only two WWDCs between

00:59:58 ◼   ► then and now and so you gotta you gotta restrain yourself a little bit. I'm like oh this is

01:00:03 ◼   ► five years away from it. No it's not it's not five years away. Okay can I tell you what

01:00:08 ◼   ► my first pick in round one in episode 300 was? Yeah I think we should go through them

01:00:12 ◼   ► we'll go through all of yours, go through all of mine, we'll score them.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Apple receives an Oscar nomination.

01:00:20 ◼   ► So good. This is so good.

01:00:23 ◼   ► And I say in the episode, I say in the episode, I don't think I can pick that they're going

01:00:27 ◼   ► to win an Oscar. If I had to pick an award, I would say that they would win an Emmy, which

01:00:31 ◼   ► they also did. But can you imagine if I picked Apple receives an Oscar and we did the episode

01:00:37 ◼   ► the day after the Oscars. Can you imagine? But all I did was the nomination, so I get

01:00:43 ◼   ► the point.

01:00:44 ◼   ► - I would have laughed you off the episode if that would have been ludicrous, genuinely

01:00:48 ◼   ► ludicrous to pick back then, that they would win an Oscar. What was your second pick?

01:00:55 ◼   ► - Are we gonna do mine straight up?

01:00:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think we should just do all of them.

01:00:59 ◼   ► - My second pick was MacBook Air name, this is what we were talking about earlier, MacBook

01:01:03 ◼   ► Air name still exists on a product.

01:01:07 ◼   ► It's a good one.

01:01:08 ◼   ► That's a good one.

01:01:09 ◼   ► It was really a question and I just thought they're not going to be able to kill it.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And then we had this discussion earlier today where you said, well, maybe they'll kill it.

01:01:16 ◼   ► And I thought, maybe, maybe not.

01:01:20 ◼   ► Maybe they can't kill it.

01:01:21 ◼   ► So I get that one.

01:01:23 ◼   ► iOS app development possible on the iPad.

01:01:27 ◼   ► It is.

01:01:28 ◼   ► It is.

01:01:29 ◼   ► We don't think about it a lot because it's a little bit constrained, but the Swift playgrounds

01:01:34 ◼   ► on iPad now you can develop and submit straight to the app store. I think at one point we

01:01:39 ◼   ► did talk about some apps that are out and available in the world that have been made

01:01:44 ◼   ► this way.

01:01:45 ◼   ► Yeah, for sure. So that came true. All right, some of these picks and I'll probably do this

01:01:50 ◼   ► this time too are the spirit of the age. So we were talking a lot about encryption stuff

01:01:57 ◼   ► and like law enforcement not wanting to be boxed out

01:02:02 ◼   ► of reading people's text messages via encryption.

01:02:06 ◼   ► And so I guessed Apple would be targeted

01:02:08 ◼   ► by specific encryption related legislation in the US.

01:02:11 ◼   ► This hasn't happened.

01:02:13 ◼   ► The sites of Congress have gone in other places

01:02:17 ◼   ► in terms of regulating big tech and not to encryption.

01:02:20 ◼   ► And my final pick, which I am gonna say is arguably wrong,

01:02:25 ◼   ► Although if I really cared,

01:02:27 ◼   ► I could make the argument that it's right,

01:02:29 ◼   ► but I think it's not in the spirit of the pick,

01:02:31 ◼   ► which is four different products exist

01:02:34 ◼   ► with the name AirPods.

01:02:36 ◼   ► Now we have AirPods Pro and AirPods and AirPods Max.

01:02:40 ◼   ► And you could argue that there are Apple still selling

01:02:42 ◼   ► two different AirPods, but they have the same name.

01:02:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, their website has four things on it.

01:02:49 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:02:50 ◼   ► - They are basically the same thing.

01:02:53 ◼   ► - Also, I said that they could sell

01:02:54 ◼   ► like a little charger, which they do sort of

01:02:59 ◼   ► for like laying down the AirPods

01:03:02 ◼   ► and laying down your iPhone.

01:03:03 ◼   ► But I think this is probably arguably,

01:03:06 ◼   ► each of us has a pick that's sort of like,

01:03:07 ◼   ► you could try to lawyer it into being right.

01:03:10 ◼   ► But I think in the spirit of it,

01:03:11 ◼   ► what I was saying is they gotta keep on churning out

01:03:13 ◼   ► new AirPods products.

01:03:15 ◼   ► Holding around the last generation

01:03:18 ◼   ► doesn't feel like it's for different products, right?

01:03:20 ◼   ► It feels like it's three different products,

01:03:22 ◼   ► one of which has the old version and the new version.

01:03:25 ◼   ► So I'm willing to let that one go

01:03:27 ◼   ► and that gives me three points.

01:03:28 ◼   ► - Three points, okay.

01:03:29 ◼   ► So my round one, Apple services bundle unveiled.

01:03:34 ◼   ► - You were a believer.

01:03:36 ◼   ► I was skeptical because it had been rumored for so long

01:03:39 ◼   ► and hadn't happened and look what happened.

01:03:41 ◼   ► - Pick two.

01:03:42 ◼   ► - I pay for it.

01:03:44 ◼   ► - Apple by Johnny Ive collaboration.

01:03:47 ◼   ► Nothing ever happened.

01:03:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, you thought that they were gonna do a collab on like-

01:03:51 ◼   ► - I thought they would do one thing.

01:03:52 ◼   ► - Like a watch band.

01:03:53 ◼   ► - Just to say that they did it,

01:03:55 ◼   ► which was 'cause they were sort of,

01:03:55 ◼   ► "Oh, we're gonna continue working together."

01:03:57 ◼   ► Nothing happened.

01:03:58 ◼   ► There is, like, it's not a collaboration,

01:04:00 ◼   ► but it was known that, like, apparently he was,

01:04:02 ◼   ► it was reported anyway,

01:04:04 ◼   ► that he was still helping out with the Colorful iMac.

01:04:07 ◼   ► That was a report.

01:04:08 ◼   ► I think Wyatt had that report,

01:04:11 ◼   ► but I don't know about that one.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Three, Apple hardware product focused on AR is unveiled.

01:04:18 ◼   ► Not yet, Myke Hurley.

01:04:20 ◼   ► - Not yet.

01:04:21 ◼   ► - No, you're so close, but not yet.

01:04:23 ◼   ► - Pretty close, but not yet.

01:04:24 ◼   ► - So close.

01:04:25 ◼   ► - Round four, consumer Macs transitioned

01:04:28 ◼   ► to ARM-based processors.

01:04:30 ◼   ► I love that, it's such a funny little thing.

01:04:32 ◼   ► Like there's a lot of hedging in there, you know?

01:04:34 ◼   ► - Well, you know, it was before Apple Silicon Transition

01:04:38 ◼   ► began or was even announced.

01:04:40 ◼   ► It was right before it was announced.

01:04:42 ◼   ► And we were like, how long are they gonna do the transition

01:04:45 ◼   ► and are they really gonna be able,

01:04:46 ◼   ► there's a lot of, are they really gonna be able

01:04:49 ◼   ► to make pro level Macs with their chips right away.

01:04:53 ◼   ► And so you constrained your pick

01:04:55 ◼   ► to the consumer Macs will get there.

01:04:57 ◼   ► What's funny if you listen to that episode and I did

01:05:00 ◼   ► is my response to this pick was to say

01:05:02 ◼   ► that one of the things on my list was

01:05:05 ◼   ► only the Mac Pro will remain on Intel.

01:05:08 ◼   ► - Oh interesting. - It's like wow, wow.

01:05:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I was pretty lucky

01:05:13 ◼   ► 'cause I think I could have easily gone

01:05:14 ◼   ► with Apple transitions of their Macs

01:05:17 ◼   ► like it wouldn't technically be correct, right?

01:05:19 ◼   ► 'Cause there's still one out there.

01:05:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the Intel Mac Mini is technically still there,

01:05:24 ◼   ► although I think I could probably again litigate

01:05:25 ◼   ► that they said very specifically they only had one left

01:05:28 ◼   ► to go when it was the Mac Pro,

01:05:30 ◼   ► that if I had picked that, we could have said it was right.

01:05:32 ◼   ► But you backed off of it,

01:05:33 ◼   ► and I think that was a prudent thing to do.

01:05:35 ◼   ► And yeah, thumbs up, that was a good one.

01:05:38 ◼   ► - And then my final one is the iPhone launch schedule

01:05:40 ◼   ► is staggered, for example, spring and fall.

01:05:43 ◼   ► Now, the iPhone SE is out, but that's not what I meant.

01:05:47 ◼   ► What I meant, which they haven't done,

01:05:49 ◼   ► but I still think there's a possibility

01:05:50 ◼   ► that one day they may do this,

01:05:52 ◼   ► is the regular and Pro phones come out at different times.

01:05:57 ◼   ► To do this though,

01:05:58 ◼   ► they do need to take the Samsung approach,

01:06:00 ◼   ► which I'm now less, I'm a bit more shaky on.

01:06:03 ◼   ► It's like the regular and Pro phones are really different.

01:06:07 ◼   ► The only time I see this happening now

01:06:09 ◼   ► is if they do something

01:06:11 ◼   ► which is like a very different kind of iPhone,

01:06:13 ◼   ► like a foldable iPhone or something like that.

01:06:15 ◼   ► - Well, I will say the rumor

01:06:18 ◼   ► that they're not gonna update the processor

01:06:21 ◼   ► in the low-end iPhone this year, in the fall,

01:06:24 ◼   ► does make me want,

01:06:28 ◼   ► I don't think they're gonna do it either,

01:06:30 ◼   ► but once they do that,

01:06:33 ◼   ► like what's stopping them from only releasing,

01:06:36 ◼   ► the other way they could do it, let me put it this way,

01:06:38 ◼   ► the other way they could do it

01:06:39 ◼   ► is they could release the Pro phones in the fall

01:06:41 ◼   ► and then with the A16,

01:06:44 ◼   ► and then in the spring release the regular phones

01:06:46 ◼   ► in the A16, right?

01:06:49 ◼   ► They could do that.

01:06:50 ◼   ► And they might even do that this time, right?

01:06:51 ◼   ► They release those regular phones with the A15 in the fall.

01:06:55 ◼   ► Again, I don't think they will, but they could.

01:06:57 ◼   ► And then in the spring they could be like,

01:06:59 ◼   ► "Oh, and now they're updated with the A16," or something.

01:07:03 ◼   ► Like, I don't think it'll happen.

01:07:05 ◼   ► I'm just saying you're seeing a bifurcation

01:07:08 ◼   ► of the two iPhone models, the two iPhone lines

01:07:13 ◼   ► that wasn't there before.

01:07:16 ◼   ► And if one of them has a different processor,

01:07:18 ◼   ► the other one, so it's not even on the same processor cycle

01:07:21 ◼   ► 'cause the processor cycle's been

01:07:23 ◼   ► what has been driving this, right?

01:07:24 ◼   ► It's like new processor, A15, it goes in the iPhones

01:07:26 ◼   ► and then it goes in other stuff and versions of it exist

01:07:29 ◼   ► and there's an X and there's an M1 and whatever else.

01:07:32 ◼   ► And if that's not true, if like this falls,

01:07:34 ◼   ► iPhones have the old chip in it for half of the models,

01:07:38 ◼   ► Like, it's not an unreasonable second step for them

01:07:41 ◼   ► to just say, "We're not gonna release them

01:07:43 ◼   ► at the same time."

01:07:45 ◼   ► And you could put them on the same chip generation then,

01:07:48 ◼   ► but stagger their release.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Again, I don't think they're gonna do it,

01:07:51 ◼   ► but they could. - I think the problem

01:07:52 ◼   ► is always gonna be design.

01:07:54 ◼   ► Like, if they're gonna follow the same design

01:07:57 ◼   ► and mostly feature the same, like, features,

01:08:00 ◼   ► they can't do it.

01:08:01 ◼   ► - But the designs are diverging a bit too, right?

01:08:03 ◼   ► So like, I guess that's my question,

01:08:05 ◼   ► is how divergent are those two models gonna go?

01:08:07 ◼   ► Again, I think they get plenty of attention

01:08:10 ◼   ► releasing all the iPhones at once.

01:08:12 ◼   ► So that's probably what they're gonna stick with.

01:08:13 ◼   ► But I've never really bought your iPhone launch

01:08:18 ◼   ► stagger theory, but the more that they make them different,

01:08:23 ◼   ► the more I think it's possible

01:08:25 ◼   ► that they could do that down the road.

01:08:26 ◼   ► 'Cause if they're identical, it doesn't make sense.

01:08:28 ◼   ► - I just think it flattens the logistics

01:08:30 ◼   ► and it flattens the revenue a little bit more.

01:08:33 ◼   ► And I think that there's a lot of benefits to that.

01:08:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, you spread it out a little bit.

01:08:36 ◼   ► And honestly, also I will say,

01:08:38 ◼   ► if you roll out the new chip generation in the fall

01:08:40 ◼   ► with the pros, and then the non-pros follow in the spring,

01:08:45 ◼   ► you will also, if you're Apple, pick up some people

01:08:47 ◼   ► who will want the newness and the hotness.

01:08:50 ◼   ► And those are the people, first off,

01:08:52 ◼   ► the people who are buying right away

01:08:53 ◼   ► when a product gets announced,

01:08:55 ◼   ► are the kind of people who are buying a pro product,

01:08:57 ◼   ► 'cause they care about the new specs.

01:08:59 ◼   ► If the other phone model is not as new

01:09:01 ◼   ► and doesn't really have new specs anymore,

01:09:03 ◼   ► it's kind of trailing behind,

01:09:05 ◼   ► it's a lot less important that it be announced

01:09:07 ◼   ► at the same time, because those buyers, like the SE,

01:09:10 ◼   ► those buyers are kind of trickling in over time.

01:09:12 ◼   ► I guess you could say that there are holiday buyers

01:09:15 ◼   ► who wanna buy a new iPhone for the holiday season,

01:09:18 ◼   ► and so putting it out in the fall is the right time.

01:09:21 ◼   ► And that's true, but I don't know.

01:09:24 ◼   ► I guess I'm saying, I don't think it will happen,

01:09:28 ◼   ► but it's less unlikely than it used to be, I think.

01:09:32 ◼   ► - I would say, so three, two to you,

01:09:34 ◼   ► I would say we did pretty well between the two of us.

01:09:38 ◼   ► - I think so. - Half.

01:09:39 ◼   ► You know, that's not too bad actually.

01:09:41 ◼   ► - 50% of our predictions for 100 episodes out came true

01:09:44 ◼   ► and two more that were, you know,

01:09:49 ◼   ► arguable in some ways.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I like the AirPods thing.

01:09:52 ◼   ► The spirit there was really more AirPods products

01:09:55 ◼   ► and they are selling four AirPods,

01:09:57 ◼   ► but they're not, it's really more like three and a half.

01:09:59 ◼   ► So I didn't quite hit the threshold, but yeah,

01:10:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, we are, we did okay, I think.

01:10:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm pretty proud of us.

01:10:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, good for us.

01:10:08 ◼   ► Oh, I wanted to mention something else I found

01:10:13 ◼   ► before we shift gears to the future.

01:10:15 ◼   ► I wanted to mention one other thing that we mentioned

01:10:16 ◼   ► in episode 300 that I thought was funny,

01:10:19 ◼   ► is one of our stories about what was being acquired,

01:10:22 ◼   ► films that were being acquired by Apple TV,

01:10:24 ◼   ► we talk about the Oscar and all of that,

01:10:26 ◼   ► was "Killers of the Flower Moon."

01:10:30 ◼   ► the Martin Scorsese directed film starring Leonardo DiCaprio

01:10:35 ◼   ► and Robert De Niro and Oscar nominee Jesse Plemons,

01:10:39 ◼   ► by the way.

01:10:40 ◼   ► And what I think it's funny is it still hasn't come out.

01:10:44 ◼   ► Its release date is November.

01:10:46 ◼   ► So 100 episodes ago, Apple acquired a film

01:10:49 ◼   ► or decided it would be producing the film.

01:10:52 ◼   ► And we are, check back in November,

01:10:56 ◼   ► check back eight months from now.

01:10:58 ◼   ► - Weirdly, I'm not surprised about this, honestly,

01:11:01 ◼   ► with a Martin Scorsese movie.

01:11:02 ◼   ► - It takes a long time to make a movie,

01:11:04 ◼   ► but it was just one of those moments where I'm like,

01:11:05 ◼   ► "Did this fall through?"

01:11:06 ◼   ► And the answer is no, no, it's coming out in November,

01:11:09 ◼   ► but it was 100 episodes ago that it was announced

01:11:12 ◼   ► that Apple was going to bankroll it.

01:11:14 ◼   ► - I mean, and it's obviously doing it

01:11:15 ◼   ► 'cause they signed the first look with Martin Scorsese.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Yeah, as well.

01:11:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, and this is in Apple Studios,

01:11:19 ◼   ► what I said before about them getting further up

01:11:22 ◼   ► in the chain, right?

01:11:23 ◼   ► Like there's buying a movie at Sundance

01:11:25 ◼   ► where you're just buying a movie that was already made

01:11:28 ◼   ► and you saw it and you liked it and you wrote them a check.

01:11:30 ◼   ► This is Apple Studios.

01:11:32 ◼   ► So this is way further back, obviously,

01:11:34 ◼   ► two years ago where they put down their money

01:11:38 ◼   ► and said, we want to be in business with Martin Scorsese

01:11:40 ◼   ► and Leonardo DiCaprio and we're going to make this movie.

01:11:43 ◼   ► And we'll see it all in November

01:11:44 ◼   ► when it will be primed for Oscar season, you know,

01:11:47 ◼   ► and so it goes.

01:11:48 ◼   ► - All right, let's take our final break

01:11:50 ◼   ► and then we will do our episode 500 draft.

01:11:54 ◼   ► I would like to thank Ooni

01:11:55 ◼   ► for their support of this week's episode.

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01:12:53 ◼   ► This is the one that you have right Jason?

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01:13:27 ◼   ► And yeah, and so my son the picky eater,

01:13:30 ◼   ► he just gets a cheese pizza

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01:13:37 ◼   ► - Man, I haven't had a pineapple pepperoni pizza

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01:13:40 ◼   ► I need to write the file. - Some are fun.

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01:14:22 ◼   ► So the episode 500 draft we turn our attention to now.

01:14:27 ◼   ► - Here it is.

01:14:29 ◼   ► - Now in our document you have put me as pick him first.

01:14:32 ◼   ► Are you just being kind to me here?

01:14:34 ◼   ► - I have decided.

01:14:36 ◼   ► - All right.

01:14:37 ◼   ► - That the challenger, challenger.

01:14:40 ◼   ► - In this one.

01:14:41 ◼   ► - In the draft of the ages should go first.

01:14:45 ◼   ► - I like that name.

01:14:47 ◼   ► I just was calling it in my mind the episode draft,

01:14:49 ◼   ► but I like draft of the ages.

01:14:52 ◼   ► So this is, remember, February, 2024.

01:14:55 ◼   ► My first pick is, in February, 2024,

01:14:58 ◼   ► there will be no Apple car.

01:15:00 ◼   ► - You stole my number one pick?

01:15:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:15:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is actually-- - I had it at the top

01:15:05 ◼   ► of my list, still no car.

01:15:07 ◼   ► - For people that are draft historians,

01:15:09 ◼   ► people that really know how we play our drafts,

01:15:12 ◼   ► there is something we're doing differently here.

01:15:15 ◼   ► Usually we have a shared draft list, right?

01:15:18 ◼   ► We always talk about that and we pick from that.

01:15:21 ◼   ► - We were having a conversation and I suggested,

01:15:24 ◼   ► well, considering this is so far in advance

01:15:26 ◼   ► and we could pick literally anything,

01:15:28 ◼   ► why don't we keep these lists secret from each other?

01:15:32 ◼   ► - I regret giving you the first pick now

01:15:34 ◼   ► 'cause that was gonna totally be my first pick.

01:15:36 ◼   ► It's a, what do they call it on the Ricky's website?

01:15:39 ◼   ► It's a downer pick.

01:15:40 ◼   ► It's a bummer pick, but I think you're right.

01:15:45 ◼   ► - It's not gonna happen, right?

01:15:47 ◼   ► - No, it's not gonna happen.

01:15:47 ◼   ► - It's not gonna happen.

01:15:48 ◼   ► I don't think it's ever gonna happen.

01:15:50 ◼   ► - It's definitely not happening in two years time.

01:15:52 ◼   ► - Right, it's the buzz killer pic.

01:15:53 ◼   ► That was a buzz killer pic, but it's a smart pic.

01:15:57 ◼   ► - Who's buzz is being killed by me saying,

01:16:00 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

01:16:01 ◼   ► Like who's out there is like really into it.

01:16:03 ◼   ► - Predicting a thing that doesn't happen is,

01:16:08 ◼   ► all right, I am going to say an iMac larger than 24 inches

01:16:14 ◼   ► will be released.

01:16:17 ◼   ► - Okay, yeah.

01:16:19 ◼   ► - Maybe you should say we'll be available, you know?

01:16:21 ◼   ► - We'll be announced or available, yeah.

01:16:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's nice, that's nice, I like that.

01:16:25 ◼   ► - 'Cause I don't wanna fall in that trap of being,

01:16:28 ◼   ► well, technically it's not available,

01:16:30 ◼   ► but they only announced it last week.

01:16:32 ◼   ► - Who's doing that, by the way, is that me?

01:16:34 ◼   ► - No, that would be the pedants on the internet,

01:16:39 ◼   ► bad people, bad people, not you.

01:16:40 ◼   ► - Okay, cool.

01:16:41 ◼   ► - No, I mean, you're right, the gentleman's agreement here,

01:16:43 ◼   ► I could say, again, will exist,

01:16:46 ◼   ► and that's all we need to say, right?

01:16:48 ◼   ► That works for me.

01:16:49 ◼   ► - Right, because then we're not arguing about,

01:16:51 ◼   ► well, technically does it exist?

01:16:52 ◼   ► If not, it's only been announced.

01:16:54 ◼   ► And again, that's not you, that's everybody else.

01:16:57 ◼   ► - We know that's not me.

01:16:57 ◼   ► - So the gentleman's agreement, it's fine.

01:16:59 ◼   ► It's really, it's everybody on connected

01:17:02 ◼   ► who fights about what the words of a pick mean.

01:17:05 ◼   ► - Not me.

01:17:06 ◼   ► - That's who I was doing.

01:17:07 ◼   ► No, not you.

01:17:07 ◼   ► - Not me, those three guys.

01:17:08 ◼   ► I probably should update you by the way,

01:17:10 ◼   ► that I have come around.

01:17:12 ◼   ► I've come back around to an IAMAC Pro.

01:17:15 ◼   ► like after we spoke about it a couple of weeks ago,

01:17:19 ◼   ► you know, I've come back around to that idea.

01:17:21 ◼   ► I think that an IOMAC Pro will exist,

01:17:24 ◼   ► but sometime into the future.

01:17:26 ◼   ► And I do agree with you that I think it will be before

01:17:29 ◼   ► February 2024, but honestly might be only just, right?

01:17:34 ◼   ► I could imagine that being a announced in December,

01:17:38 ◼   ► 2023 kind of deal, who knows?

01:17:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, could be.

01:17:41 ◼   ► - All right. - We'll find out.

01:17:42 ◼   ► I think that since we're picking here

01:17:45 ◼   ► for what will be the beginning of '24,

01:17:49 ◼   ► I am going with the idea that by the end of '23,

01:17:53 ◼   ► there will be a big iMac, yeah.

01:17:55 ◼   ► - All right, so my second pick.

01:17:57 ◼   ► So we're all very excited about Friday night baseball

01:18:01 ◼   ► coming to Apple TV Plus, right?

01:18:03 ◼   ► - Aren't we though?

01:18:04 ◼   ► - Like very excited.

01:18:06 ◼   ► If I'm ever gonna watch baseball,

01:18:07 ◼   ► I want it to be on a Friday night.

01:18:09 ◼   ► Also, actually kind of funny--

01:18:10 ◼   ► - I'm gonna text you.

01:18:11 ◼   ► I'll text you when it's on.

01:18:12 ◼   ► It's kind of funny.

01:18:14 ◼   ► It would technically be Saturday morning baseball for me,

01:18:17 ◼   ► which is so it's funny that they're calling it that way

01:18:19 ◼   ► considering it is going to be available.

01:18:22 ◼   ► - Maybe they'll brand it differently

01:18:23 ◼   ► in places where it's Saturday.

01:18:25 ◼   ► - Terrible time on Saturday baseball, we'll call it.

01:18:28 ◼   ► - It's Saturday afternoon baseball in Australia

01:18:33 ◼   ► and it's probably Saturday baseball

01:18:35 ◼   ► in Saturday morning baseball maybe in Korea and Japan.

01:18:38 ◼   ► So I don't know, maybe, but terrible,

01:18:41 ◼   ► - Terrible time baseball, late night baseball.

01:18:43 ◼   ► - Terrible time baseball is what we'll call it.

01:18:45 ◼   ► But that's not my pick.

01:18:46 ◼   ► My pick is that Apple TV+ will include live programming

01:18:50 ◼   ► that is not sports.

01:18:51 ◼   ► - Ooh, what does that mean?

01:18:54 ◼   ► - I don't know.

01:18:55 ◼   ► - So to be clear here, this isn't like bundling in

01:18:59 ◼   ► a cable channel that has it as like a channel.

01:19:02 ◼   ► It's like you pay for Apple TV+

01:19:04 ◼   ► and you get live programming that is not sports.

01:19:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's part of the Apple TV+ subscription thing,

01:19:10 ◼   ► right, like in the way that the Friday night baseball is.

01:19:13 ◼   ► You know?

01:19:14 ◼   ► Like I don't want to say like Apple makes it,

01:19:15 ◼   ► if that makes sense, but like it's that,

01:19:17 ◼   ► as an Apple TV Plus subscriber, without any add-ons,

01:19:22 ◼   ► unless it comes from Apple.

01:19:24 ◼   ► All right, you get what I'm trying to say, right?

01:19:27 ◼   ► Like if you're an Apple TV Plus subscriber,

01:19:30 ◼   ► you can get live programming.

01:19:31 ◼   ► It is possible that Apple may charge you more for it,

01:19:34 ◼   ► if that makes sense.

01:19:35 ◼   ► - Right, but it's coming from Apple TV Plus,

01:19:37 ◼   ► it's not being shunted from another source.

01:19:38 ◼   ► - From somewhere else, no.

01:19:40 ◼   ► What is this? What do you think this will be?

01:19:42 ◼   ► Because this is... I don't...

01:19:44 ◼   ► This could be live specials of some kind.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Maybe they go into news, right?

01:19:49 ◼   ► They have that news podcast. Maybe they do that.

01:19:52 ◼   ► Honestly, I don't know, right?

01:19:55 ◼   ► But I tell you what made me think of this, right?

01:19:58 ◼   ► A hundred episodes ago, I don't think I would have expected that they were going to be doing live sports.

01:20:04 ◼   ► So my thinking is that there is a potential for stuff

01:20:09 ◼   ► for them to do in this area.

01:20:11 ◼   ► They're gonna have learned about it from sports.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Maybe they move into something else.

01:20:15 ◼   ► Like James is saying, concerts.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Concerts could be a thing that they put on Apple TV+.

01:20:19 ◼   ► It could be a whole thing that they do.

01:20:21 ◼   ► I don't know, right?

01:20:23 ◼   ► But live TV is a thing that exists,

01:20:25 ◼   ► and there are things that you can do on live TV.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Like a live comedy show, right?

01:20:30 ◼   ► Why not?

01:20:31 ◼   ► Like a Saturday Night Live or something.

01:20:32 ◼   ► - Sure.

01:20:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe.

01:20:34 ◼   ► - And it's not necessarily, it's like,

01:20:36 ◼   ► oh, they have so many things.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Like it could just be one show that they do every week,

01:20:40 ◼   ► but it's live.

01:20:42 ◼   ► That's what I'm thinking.

01:20:43 ◼   ► I'm just thinking that in two years' time,

01:20:46 ◼   ► from where they are now to where they were two years ago,

01:20:49 ◼   ► like I'm thinking of the progression of Apple TV+,

01:20:52 ◼   ► I can see them just wanting to try lots of different stuff,

01:20:55 ◼   ► and I could imagine a live show.

01:20:57 ◼   ► - Interesting.

01:20:58 ◼   ► I'm gonna go a little more restrained than that

01:21:00 ◼   ► and say Apple TV+ will broadcast another live sport

01:21:03 ◼   ► that is not baseball.

01:21:05 ◼   ► - So I was thinking this,

01:21:06 ◼   ► but wanted to be a little bit more daring,

01:21:08 ◼   ► but like I was thinking it too.

01:21:09 ◼   ► - You are more daring. - It could be football,

01:21:10 ◼   ► it could be some kind of racing.

01:21:12 ◼   ► - Racing, yeah sure.

01:21:13 ◼   ► - That was my first pick and then I was like,

01:21:15 ◼   ► "No, let's go, let's swing for the fences."

01:21:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, good for you, good baseball metaphor there.

01:21:19 ◼   ► I like that.

01:21:20 ◼   ► - There will be two more products branded studio

01:21:24 ◼   ► is my third pick.

01:21:26 ◼   ► - Oh, I had on my list another Apple hardware product

01:21:30 ◼   ► called Studio.

01:21:31 ◼   ► - Again, I thought I could go with one,

01:21:33 ◼   ► but like, no, why go with one when you can go with two?

01:21:35 ◼   ► You know? - Two.

01:21:36 ◼   ► Swinging for those fences.

01:21:38 ◼   ► I like it because it is a word that was just introduced,

01:21:43 ◼   ► but it is an interesting direction for them.

01:21:48 ◼   ► That it feels like this,

01:21:49 ◼   ► they don't drop a new word into their product lineup

01:21:54 ◼   ► without careful consideration

01:21:56 ◼   ► of how they might deploy it.

01:21:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, they're using it in two places already.

01:21:59 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:22:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:22:01 ◼   ► And we've seen with Max and with Pro and with Mini

01:22:04 ◼   ► and with Air that they like to recycle their descriptors.

01:22:09 ◼   ► Right?

01:22:10 ◼   ► So why would they not do this?

01:22:12 ◼   ► - And it's a brand new name.

01:22:13 ◼   ► It can mean a bunch of different things.

01:22:15 ◼   ► You know, it's got the create angle tied into it

01:22:17 ◼   ► and I'm really excited about it.

01:22:19 ◼   ► But particularly, I just love it.

01:22:20 ◼   ► I think it's a great brand.

01:22:21 ◼   ► So that's why I wanted to pick it.

01:22:23 ◼   ► And I was like, let's just go all studio everywhere.

01:22:26 ◼   ► - Like I think AirPods Max will be rebranded

01:22:29 ◼   ► to AirPods Studio.

01:22:31 ◼   ► - To AirPods Studio.

01:22:32 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

01:22:33 ◼   ► - It's a good name.

01:22:34 ◼   ► It's a better name.

01:22:35 ◼   ► - It's a great name.

01:22:35 ◼   ► It's a great name.

01:22:36 ◼   ► What's your third pick?

01:22:37 ◼   ► - I'm looking at this list now

01:22:39 ◼   ► and I'm just not loving any of them.

01:22:42 ◼   ► I'm just gonna go with big products again.

01:22:48 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:22:49 ◼   ► - And iPad will have a display larger than 12.9 inches.

01:22:54 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:22:56 ◼   ► Are you wowing that pic or wowing that it's such a timid pic?

01:23:02 ◼   ► Because I think it's definitely going to happen.

01:23:03 ◼   ► I actually think it's possible that 12.9 will get bigger, but I think that there'll be a

01:23:07 ◼   ► larger iPad.

01:23:08 ◼   ► Yeah, iPad Studio.

01:23:09 ◼   ► This is one of those things where it's like, do I believe this will happen?

01:23:14 ◼   ► Yes.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Do I believe this will have happened by February 2024?

01:23:19 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:23:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:23:21 ◼   ► Because like the rest of my picks today except for one that I have in my little list

01:23:26 ◼   ► I have like a list of seven here. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with a bunch of these where it's like

01:23:31 ◼   ► Yeah, oh, yeah. Do I think it's gonna happen? Yes, I do. Will it have happened in?

01:23:35 ◼   ► Less than two years. I'm not so sure but okay. I mean like here's that yes, I agree

01:23:42 ◼   ► This is gonna happen. It makes sense, right, but I just

01:23:44 ◼   ► Yeah

01:23:46 ◼   ► Okay, cool. Good pick. Thank you. I have an iPad related one, but it's a buzz killer and it oh

01:23:53 ◼   ► I'm really I'm doing it for the memes honestly, but dystopian science fiction is happening now right here. All right

01:23:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna make a pic right now, right?

01:24:02 ◼   ► Okay, this is fun. This is your turn. I'm gonna make a pic right now

01:24:06 ◼   ► Uh-huh that I could be wrong about potentially tomorrow

01:24:11 ◼   ► Wow, right

01:24:15 ◼   ► - For those who keep the live scoreboard,

01:24:18 ◼   ► you can just mark this one off tomorrow.

01:24:20 ◼   ► - No, maybe not, but it's not a definite.

01:24:22 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's something that could be invalidated

01:24:25 ◼   ► at any time, is what you're saying.

01:24:27 ◼   ► So this is like a won't, right?

01:24:28 ◼   ► This is like, this won't happen.

01:24:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, kind of.

01:24:31 ◼   ► WWDC has not returned to the pre-2020 style.

01:24:35 ◼   ► - All right.

01:24:37 ◼   ► - So as we're recording this,

01:24:38 ◼   ► it's very expected that within the next couple of days,

01:24:42 ◼   ► Apple will announce their 2022 WWDC plan.

01:24:46 ◼   ► And they could shock the world and say,

01:24:47 ◼   ► "Hey everyone, come back."

01:24:49 ◼   ► Myke Hurley thinks that's not gonna happen, right?

01:24:52 ◼   ► And Myke Hurley thinks it's never gonna happen.

01:24:54 ◼   ► - And you think it's not gonna happen next year either.

01:24:56 ◼   ► - I think it's done.

01:24:58 ◼   ► Like the idea of we're gonna bring 5,000 developers

01:25:03 ◼   ► to San Jose and do like a week's worth of programming,

01:25:07 ◼   ► I don't think that's ever gonna happen again.

01:25:09 ◼   ► And so that's where I'm going with it.

01:25:11 ◼   ► - Hmm, I think you may be right,

01:25:14 ◼   ► but I think it's interesting.

01:25:15 ◼   ► Like we don't know what the,

01:25:17 ◼   ► if things settle down and you get a whole year,

01:25:22 ◼   ► that's the question, right?

01:25:23 ◼   ► Like will Apple, if things settle down for a whole year,

01:25:26 ◼   ► say we're bringing it back or will Apple be like,

01:25:28 ◼   ► we're never bringing it back and we just don't know.

01:25:32 ◼   ► I think there's a good chance you're right.

01:25:34 ◼   ► I said at some point, 'cause you said pre 2020 style,

01:25:36 ◼   ► which I think is a good point here,

01:25:37 ◼   ► because I've said that I can still envision a scenario

01:25:40 ◼   ► where Apple uses WWDC as a media event.

01:25:44 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, for sure.

01:25:45 ◼   ► I think there's a chance they'll do that this year.

01:25:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, like a kickoff that's at the Steve Jobs Theater

01:25:51 ◼   ► that is a media event with people.

01:25:54 ◼   ► - And select developers that they wanna invite.

01:25:56 ◼   ► - And select developers, but it's not a conference.

01:26:00 ◼   ► It's a media event kicking off a week of virtual conference.

01:26:04 ◼   ► I think that there's a really good chance

01:26:05 ◼   ► that that's where they're gonna end up.

01:26:07 ◼   ► - Because, look, I said it at the time when I stand by it,

01:26:10 ◼   ► I think that is a better thing

01:26:13 ◼   ► for Apple's developer community as a whole.

01:26:16 ◼   ► - It is, it is.

01:26:17 ◼   ► 'Cause only a tiny, tiny fraction could ever get a ticket

01:26:20 ◼   ► and even afford to go to San Jose for a week.

01:26:23 ◼   ► And so for most people, WWDC has always been virtual

01:26:28 ◼   ► for most people.

01:26:29 ◼   ► - Forcing it to be virtual has meant that they've had

01:26:32 ◼   ► to open up more opportunities for people that are virtual

01:26:35 ◼   ► and they'll continue to do that.

01:26:36 ◼   ► - And build new technologies and it works really well

01:26:39 ◼   ► and people are pretty happy with it.

01:26:40 ◼   ► So I agree, as much as I would be sad to lose it

01:26:44 ◼   ► because I wrote a piece many years ago on iMore

01:26:46 ◼   ► about how it basically took the banner from Macworld Expo

01:26:50 ◼   ► in terms of being the place that was like the event,

01:26:52 ◼   ► in-person event for our community.

01:26:55 ◼   ► The truth is if you're Apple and you look at it,

01:26:57 ◼   ► it doesn't really make sense.

01:26:59 ◼   ► So this makes more sense to do it this way.

01:27:03 ◼   ► That said, Apple is also the company

01:27:06 ◼   ► that is bringing everybody back to the office.

01:27:08 ◼   ► when we're like, you know, but you could do it virtually.

01:27:11 ◼   ► Apple's like, no, but we really believe

01:27:13 ◼   ► that having people in person,

01:27:14 ◼   ► and that could extend to WWDC.

01:27:16 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:27:17 ◼   ► - I don't.

01:27:18 ◼   ► I mean, I don't buy that at all.

01:27:22 ◼   ► There's an argument.

01:27:23 ◼   ► I've seen people making that argument.

01:27:24 ◼   ► It's like, this is an apples and oranges situation here.

01:27:29 ◼   ► - I agree, and yet I guess my point is not

01:27:31 ◼   ► that that would be the logic.

01:27:32 ◼   ► I guess my point is that I don't entirely agree with

01:27:35 ◼   ► or understand Apple's rationale there.

01:27:37 ◼   ► And if I don't understand that,

01:27:40 ◼   ► maybe I don't understand how they feel about WWDC.

01:27:44 ◼   ► - Sure. - I don't know.

01:27:45 ◼   ► For my next pick, Myke,

01:27:48 ◼   ► I put the first part of it in our document,

01:27:51 ◼   ► Somewhere in the World.

01:27:53 ◼   ► - I'm really intrigued about this.

01:27:54 ◼   ► For the last five minutes in our document,

01:27:56 ◼   ► it says somewhere in the world.

01:27:58 ◼   ► I'm like, what is it gonna say?

01:27:59 ◼   ► - Do you have a guess about what follows

01:28:01 ◼   ► Somewhere in the World?

01:28:03 ◼   ► - Somewhere in the World,

01:28:06 ◼   ► Apple opens another campus?

01:28:09 ◼   ► - No, no. - Okay, 'cause they are

01:28:11 ◼   ► doing that, so that would be it.

01:28:12 ◼   ► - Somewhere in the world,

01:28:14 ◼   ► Apple will let users sideload iOS apps.

01:28:17 ◼   ► - Oh, Jason, we might talk about this next week, by the way.

01:28:20 ◼   ► I have some links for maybe for us to talk about next week.

01:28:23 ◼   ► - Okay, this is me putting down that someone's gonna make--

01:28:26 ◼   ► - I couldn't squeeze antitrust into this episode today,

01:28:29 ◼   ► I just did not have the time,

01:28:31 ◼   ► but I've got a lot to say again.

01:28:32 ◼   ► - I know, but that's gonna be my choice,

01:28:35 ◼   ► is that somewhere by the beginning of 2024,

01:28:37 ◼   ► somewhere in the world, someone will have forced Apple.

01:28:42 ◼   ► Well, I don't know.

01:28:44 ◼   ► See, here's the thing.

01:28:44 ◼   ► I would guess the EU, but the thing is,

01:28:47 ◼   ► I didn't know what was gonna happen in Korea and Japan

01:28:51 ◼   ► and the Netherlands specifically, right?

01:28:54 ◼   ► - For all we know, it's gonna happen in the Netherlands

01:28:56 ◼   ► in three weeks time, right?

01:28:57 ◼   ► - You never know.

01:28:58 ◼   ► It'll be like, well, you know, it turns out that in Italy,

01:29:00 ◼   ► we have to do this, but just in Italy,

01:29:02 ◼   ► and Federico's gonna go, ha ha!

01:29:04 ◼   ► but right before he realizes that all of his accounts

01:29:06 ◼   ► are American.

01:29:08 ◼   ► So we'll see where it is in the world.

01:29:09 ◼   ► I'm not gonna tell you where,

01:29:11 ◼   ► I'm just gonna tell you somewhere out there in the world.

01:29:14 ◼   ► If it's on the moon, it doesn't count.

01:29:15 ◼   ► If it's in the world and Apple is forced or decides,

01:29:19 ◼   ► but probably forced to let users sideload iOS apps.

01:29:23 ◼   ► - Okay, we're having fun, right?

01:29:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's only an exhibition, not a competition.

01:29:27 ◼   ► - My last pick, iPadOS will not have better support

01:29:31 ◼   ► for external display.

01:29:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:29:34 ◼   ► Oh, you know I had this pic, but I have it the other way.

01:29:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, of course.

01:29:41 ◼   ► - No, external display support for iPad won't happen,

01:29:44 ◼   ► you say. - Yeah, yeah.

01:29:45 ◼   ► - It's just like, we always want it,

01:29:47 ◼   ► it's not gonna happen. - It's not gonna happen.

01:29:49 ◼   ► Well, look, at the same time for longer,

01:29:50 ◼   ► we've been asking for them to improve audio routing,

01:29:53 ◼   ► you know, that never happened.

01:29:55 ◼   ► - Right?

01:29:56 ◼   ► - I mean, look, here's the thing,

01:29:58 ◼   ► I don't know if they want us to do this.

01:30:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:30:01 ◼   ► I am inclined to believe that they will

01:30:04 ◼   ► because the hardware supports it.

01:30:06 ◼   ► - I mean, I really hope they will, right?

01:30:08 ◼   ► But-

01:30:09 ◼   ► - So the hardware supports it,

01:30:10 ◼   ► they've been iterating on multitasking.

01:30:13 ◼   ► If I had to predict this point,

01:30:17 ◼   ► because my pick was gonna be external display support

01:30:20 ◼   ► for iPad will happen, you said won't happen.

01:30:23 ◼   ► If I had to predict though, what I would predict is,

01:30:26 ◼   ► and I highly recommend what two weeks ago,

01:30:28 ◼   ► episode of Connected where Federico

01:30:30 ◼   ► got really sort of despairing about the future of the iPad