Upgrade

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00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 401.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Fitbod, Bombus, and DoorDash.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:18 ◼   ► >> From my garage, I'm Jason Snell.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:21 ◼   ► >> I don't live in Relay FM, you know.

00:00:23 ◼   ► >> Wherever you go, it's half of Relay FM.

00:00:27 ◼   ► >> Live from Mega Studio.

00:00:28 ◼   ► - It's your relay M for Myke.

00:00:33 ◼   ► - Well, is this like Snell Zone?

00:00:34 ◼   ► Like wherever you go?

00:00:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, your relay M and Steven is relay F.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Why F? I don't know.

00:00:39 ◼   ► It's not relay SM, it's relay FM.

00:00:43 ◼   ► So he gets to be F.

00:00:43 ◼   ► - It's for the F in Steven.

00:00:45 ◼   ► - Friendly Steven Hackett.

00:00:47 ◼   ► - No, you can hear it.

00:00:47 ◼   ► There's an F in Steven.

00:00:49 ◼   ► You know, like it sounds that way.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Steven, you know?

00:00:52 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:00:53 ◼   ► - It just doesn't spell it that way.

00:00:54 ◼   ► - Steven Hackett.

00:00:56 ◼   ► - Steven.

00:00:57 ◼   ► I'm excited about today's episode, Jason.

00:01:00 ◼   ► - I am too.

00:01:01 ◼   ► - Got a lot of big stuff to cover.

00:01:03 ◼   ► - I'm always excited about Upgrade, Myke.

00:01:05 ◼   ► It's how I start my week.

00:01:06 ◼   ► I get to talk to my friend, Myke.

00:01:07 ◼   ► - Hello.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - We are really kind people who don't do things

00:01:10 ◼   ► like correct other people on their podcasts.

00:01:13 ◼   ► We don't do that here.

00:01:13 ◼   ► We're nice.

00:01:14 ◼   ► - We don't do like what I consider as correction ambush.

00:01:18 ◼   ► - No, there's very rarely surprised spiders on this show.

00:01:21 ◼   ► So that's good.

00:01:22 ◼   ► - I've been ambushed a lot recently on my podcasts.

00:01:24 ◼   ► I don't know if you're gonna try

00:01:25 ◼   ► take control of this one today who could tell I was the original ambusher though right when

00:01:30 ◼   ► I brought Federico Federico did the ambushing that's oh yeah but I was the engineer of the

00:01:35 ◼   ► ambush but yes Federico did the ambushing it's true I have a hashtag still talk question

00:01:39 ◼   ► comes from Brian Brian wants to know Jason if you were invited to be a guest on the flop

00:01:43 ◼   ► house what movie would you want to talk about flop house one of my maybe my all-time favorite

00:01:50 ◼   ► podcast. Ooh. Love it. Couldn't, I mean, I love it. Still listen to every episode,

00:01:57 ◼   ► although there's an episode that I'm holding because it's a movie I want to

00:01:59 ◼   ► see, so I don't want it to be spoiled before I listen, but, but generally yes, I

00:02:04 ◼   ► love it. Dan McCoy, Ellie Kaelin, Stuart Wellington, they're great. They just did a

00:02:08 ◼   ► live show. Loved it. Happy to pay for that. Just, you know, they're the best. I don't

00:02:13 ◼   ► know why I would be invited on to the Floth House, although I will accept, if

00:02:18 ◼   ► If invited, I will accept.

00:02:20 ◼   ► My choice, I mean, I would go with something recent if they wanted to, because they usually

00:02:24 ◼   ► go with something recent, so I would, you know, sign me up for Morbius or something,

00:02:28 ◼   ► it would be fine, like something that's kind of up my alley.

00:02:32 ◼   ► I would do that.

00:02:34 ◼   ► But if I'm going to a classic, I would go to the movie covered already on the incomparable

00:02:40 ◼   ► in episode 320, A Rocket Surgery.

00:02:43 ◼   ► It's my favorite bad movie of all time.

00:02:46 ◼   ► 1981's Frankenstein Island.

00:02:48 ◼   ► And so, boys, I'm ready to talk.

00:02:51 ◼   ► I'm ready to take you to the exciting world of Frankenstein Island where it's not really

00:02:56 ◼   ► about Frankenstein, but there's a lady with a house and there's these sort of women wearing

00:03:02 ◼   ► weird leopard print bikinis, charming snakes, and there's an old drunk in a jail cell, and

00:03:09 ◼   ► the ghost of John Carradine appears at various points randomly.

00:03:13 ◼   ► It's quite a thing.

00:03:15 ◼   ► I discovered this movie in high school, and it was very fun to subject my podcasting pals

00:03:20 ◼   ► to this.

00:03:21 ◼   ► And you know, every so often I hear from Tony Sindelar, and he tells me, "You know, Jason,

00:03:26 ◼   ► I was thinking about Frankenstein Island the other day," and it delights me that it haunts

00:03:31 ◼   ► him now like it haunts me.

00:03:32 ◼   ► It's great.

00:03:33 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:03:34 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a #SnowTalk question of your own, just send out a tweet with the

00:03:38 ◼   ► hashtag SnowTalk or use question mark SnowTalk in the Real AFM members Discord.

00:03:42 ◼   ► Would you like to address the follow-up ambush?

00:03:45 ◼   ► I mean, I guess we have to.

00:03:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:03:48 ◼   ► - So Stephen Hackett on Connected last week,

00:03:50 ◼   ► ambushed Myke with fact checking about our discussion

00:03:55 ◼   ► of whether Apple would make people charge,

00:03:57 ◼   ► pay more for colors, just pure color charges.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And we talked about the black MacBook

00:04:03 ◼   ► and the black MacBook tax.

00:04:05 ◼   ► And Stephen posted a blog post where he wrote about it.

00:04:10 ◼   ► And I read that blog post and I thought,

00:04:14 ◼   ► oh, it's very nice of Steven

00:04:15 ◼   ► 'cause he's basically correcting us,

00:04:16 ◼   ► but he's not phrasing it as a correction.

00:04:18 ◼   ► And then I linked to his post and owned up to the fact

00:04:21 ◼   ► that Steven was providing information

00:04:23 ◼   ► and we kind of got it wrong last week.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Only to listen then over the weekend

00:04:26 ◼   ► while I was mowing my lawn to Connected and hear

00:04:30 ◼   ► that he wasn't so nice 'cause he ambushed you

00:04:32 ◼   ► during Connected with this information.

00:04:34 ◼   ► So yes, the argument there is that

00:04:39 ◼   ► although the black MacBook was more expensive,

00:04:42 ◼   ► It was also higher spec'd, which is true.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Although it's also true that if you spec'd the white MacBook to match it, there would

00:04:50 ◼   ► still be a price difference.

00:04:52 ◼   ► And that was the source of the black tax concept, is that even if you spec'd them identically,

00:04:59 ◼   ► it was more expensive.

00:05:00 ◼   ► So it was not just the case that there was a higher spec'd model that came in a different

00:05:04 ◼   ► color, which is very much like 24-inch iMac, right?

00:05:07 ◼   ► Where some of the colors only come in the higher spec model, you can't get it in the

00:05:10 ◼   ► base model.

00:05:11 ◼   ► even if you made them all line up, the black MacBook cost more for the same specs. There was

00:05:16 ◼   ► still a tariff on the color. Also, in current times, and we didn't mention this mostly because,

00:05:23 ◼   ► I mean, I didn't even think of it. I just don't think that this is a big deal, but it's a true

00:05:31 ◼   ► thing. Apple charges more for the black trackpad, mouse, and keyboard than it does for the white

00:05:36 ◼   ► white one, white, silver white one. Why? Because they can.

00:05:41 ◼   ► - I've been getting that feedback a lot. Now I'm getting this feedback about these colors

00:05:45 ◼   ► from two shows now. - Yeah, it's so lucky for you.

00:05:49 ◼   ► - So I just want everyone to stop talking about it.

00:05:51 ◼   ► - Let's stop, yeah. Anyway, do I, so I guess my point is, do I think Apple will make a

00:05:57 ◼   ► Mac or even an iPhone that is not at all different from the other models, but you pay for it

00:06:06 ◼   ► pay more because of the color.

00:06:08 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:06:11 ◼   ► They're doing it for the accessories.

00:06:13 ◼   ► I don't think they'll do it for a Mac or an iPhone

00:06:15 ◼   ► or an iPad, I guess.

00:06:17 ◼   ► But the asterisk there is,

00:06:20 ◼   ► they may sequester some of the colors.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Like it just like the colors in the iPhone Pros

00:06:26 ◼   ► aren't the same as the colors in the iPhone,

00:06:28 ◼   ► but that's not quite the same

00:06:29 ◼   ► 'cause you're buying a different phone.

00:06:31 ◼   ► And even with the iMac 24,

00:06:33 ◼   ► they're sequestering it,

00:06:35 ◼   ► but they're doing it in the step up model

00:06:39 ◼   ► and all the colors are the same price at that model.

00:06:42 ◼   ► So I think I read that question to be really like,

00:06:44 ◼   ► literally you can get this computer for $1,500

00:06:48 ◼   ► unless you want it in purple,

00:06:49 ◼   ► at which point it's $1,600 for the same computer.

00:06:53 ◼   ► And I don't think they'll do that.

00:06:54 ◼   ► But the counter argument is,

00:06:57 ◼   ► why is the black keyboard more expensive?

00:06:59 ◼   ► And I have no answer for you there.

00:07:00 ◼   ► It's pro, that's why. - Professional,

00:07:01 ◼   ► it's a professional one. - It's pro, yeah, it is.

00:07:03 ◼   ► It is.

00:07:04 ◼   ► I got my studio display.

00:07:06 ◼   ► - Yay!

00:07:07 ◼   ► Those are arriving.

00:07:09 ◼   ► James Thompson, our friend, showed us that he got his

00:07:12 ◼   ► and his Mac Studio too.

00:07:13 ◼   ► So it's happening, it's all happening.

00:07:15 ◼   ► - The studio display that I got,

00:07:18 ◼   ► it's just as a refresher to people,

00:07:21 ◼   ► was the standard panel

00:07:23 ◼   ► with the height and tilt adjustable stand.

00:07:25 ◼   ► So the Pro Display XDR looking stand.

00:07:30 ◼   ► It doesn't operate exactly as that one.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Like I can't do tilting.

00:07:33 ◼   ► Like what are they called?

00:07:34 ◼   ► clockwise and yeah horizontal to portrait. I thought I would talk you

00:07:40 ◼   ► through my impressions of using it for a couple only a couple of days. It is I was

00:07:46 ◼   ► immediately struck by how big and heavy the box was like to a point where I was

00:07:53 ◼   ► like wow this is the heaviest Apple product box I have picked up in a long

00:07:58 ◼   ► time and I expect the majority of I expected the majority of that weight was

00:08:03 ◼   ► in the stand that I had on my display. So I looked through it. The Pro Display XDR,

00:08:09 ◼   ► sorry, no, that's not what I got. The Apple Studio display with the regular stand is 13.9

00:08:16 ◼   ► pounds, which is 6.3 kilograms. The one with the height adjustable stand that I have is

00:08:21 ◼   ► 16.9 pounds, which is three pounds heavier.

00:08:24 ◼   ► You have three pounds of more stand.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Which I'm not surprised about, right, that you've got to anchor the display, right, because

00:08:33 ◼   ► it can be moved around so much. You don't want it falling over. This is 7.67 kilograms.

00:08:39 ◼   ► The iMac that I have sitting in front of me, the 24-inch iMac, I remembered how light that

00:08:44 ◼   ► box felt. Well, that was 9.83 pounds, 4.46 kilograms. And I was thinking, well, what

00:08:52 ◼   ► could have been the heaviest thing I could remember? And I remember the iMac Pro box

00:08:57 ◼   ► being pretty heavy. And that was 21.5 pounds. So it was the heaviest.

00:09:02 ◼   ► This display is a lot lighter than the iMac Pro, but not like the 24-inch iMac.

00:09:08 ◼   ► That's interesting.

00:09:09 ◼   ► So if I really wanted the optimum floating above my desk experience, I should get a VESA

00:09:15 ◼   ► mount iMac 24-inch instead.

00:09:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:19 ◼   ► That would be nice.

00:09:21 ◼   ► I'm not going to do that.

00:09:22 ◼   ► Just in regards to the box, I really like the woven handles that they put on these boxes.

00:09:28 ◼   ► I had it with the iMac and with this.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Just like in general, this all I think came from the Mac Pro, like the way that they do

00:09:35 ◼   ► Mac boxes now, especially the desktop boxes.

00:09:37 ◼   ► That's so nice.

00:09:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, and Mac Pro makes sense, right?

00:09:39 ◼   ► 'Cause it's lower volume, so they can experiment on a low volume product.

00:09:44 ◼   ► 'Cause the goal here is to get plastic out of packaging.

00:09:47 ◼   ► And they have been working on it.

00:09:48 ◼   ► There's a lot of stuff that used to be kind of peel off plastic is now paper.

00:09:53 ◼   ► And that handle is a woven handle instead of it being a plastic handle.

00:09:56 ◼   ► I believe it's a woven...

00:09:59 ◼   ► I don't know what material it is, but I don't think it's plastic. I think it's an actual

00:10:05 ◼   ► plant material of some kind. And that's the idea. People can correct me if I'm wrong,

00:10:10 ◼   ► but like the idea here is they're trying to get bad contents out of their packaging. And

00:10:16 ◼   ► there's still places where there's like a plastic wrap thing. But I remember when they

00:10:21 ◼   ► were talking so much about their environmental stuff a few years ago, and then I would get

00:10:25 ◼   ► my review units in and there would be plastic everywhere.

00:10:28 ◼   ► And I think, well, you guys are still using a lot of plastic

00:10:30 ◼   ► in every one of these that you sell.

00:10:32 ◼   ► And they have been working on that,

00:10:35 ◼   ► which I think is, you know, it helps, I think.

00:10:38 ◼   ► - And like, 'cause even the Mac Studio, right,

00:10:42 ◼   ► they have a kind of, I saw some unboxings,

00:10:45 ◼   ► basically a cardboard shock absorber, right?

00:10:47 ◼   ► - Yeah. - In the base of the box.

00:10:48 ◼   ► It's like stuff like that.

00:10:49 ◼   ► It's like, instead of using foam or whatever,

00:10:51 ◼   ► I think it's really cool.

00:10:53 ◼   ► - For sure.

00:10:53 ◼   ► The panel itself is fantastic, the display. I was immediately struck with the richness

00:11:00 ◼   ► in the colours compared to the LG display that I was using prior. I wasn't using one

00:11:06 ◼   ► of the ultra-fine or anything like that. I don't even remember, I don't know what colour

00:11:10 ◼   ► gamut it had. But this is a Mac with the P3 colour. Obviously it's similar to my iMac

00:11:18 ◼   ► display, but just in the environment of using my MacBook Pro in that desk with, you know,

00:11:24 ◼   ► it was just like, oh wow, this looks much, much different. I decided I'm going to try

00:11:29 ◼   ► running it on like the default display settings. I usually would gravitate towards less space,

00:11:35 ◼   ► so like more space I should say, so I had more space on the display, but I'm sticking

00:11:41 ◼   ► with the kind of regular because it does look the best. You know, I was originally thinking

00:11:46 ◼   ► to do this because I've gone down from a 31 inch display to a 27 inch display for this

00:11:51 ◼   ► desk but instead I'm just trying to get used to it because really it just looks best that

00:11:59 ◼   ► way.

00:12:00 ◼   ► It's true.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Not doing any scaling or anything like that.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Running a little native resolution there.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Yeah but the panel's great you know like there isn't really much to say on here if you've

00:12:07 ◼   ► used you know any iMac in years.

00:12:10 ◼   ► 5K, iMac or iMac Pro the most recent ones.

00:12:13 ◼   ► - Well, the original was a little bit less of a panel,

00:12:15 ◼   ► but the last few years it's been this panel.

00:12:19 ◼   ► And yeah, that's absolutely right.

00:12:22 ◼   ► I wanted to mention something about the panel that came up.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Somebody tweeted at me, Andrew Nelson.

00:12:27 ◼   ► He pointed out, related to a completely unrelated

00:12:30 ◼   ► CGP gray thread about giant spiders in Hawaii,

00:12:34 ◼   ► which we're not gonna talk about.

00:12:36 ◼   ► But this display has a laminated screen, I believe.

00:12:40 ◼   ► So it's like the panel is laminated.

00:12:42 ◼   ► It's up against the glass.

00:12:44 ◼   ► What this means is theoretically,

00:12:46 ◼   ► I couldn't get a spider in my screen

00:12:49 ◼   ► like I did way back when in 2017,

00:12:51 ◼   ► when a spider crawled between the panel

00:12:53 ◼   ► and the glass on my iMac.

00:12:55 ◼   ► I don't think, I think this is a,

00:12:58 ◼   ► I can't say it's a spider-free display, right?

00:13:00 ◼   ► The spiders could crawl around.

00:13:01 ◼   ► - There are holes.

00:13:02 ◼   ► There are holes in this.

00:13:04 ◼   ► - There are holes 'cause there's vents and fans and stuff.

00:13:07 ◼   ► Spiders would have to fight against the airflow,

00:13:11 ◼   ► But the key point is it couldn't happen like it happened

00:13:15 ◼   ► to my 5K iMac where I woke up one day

00:13:17 ◼   ► and there was like a little dead spider in my screen

00:13:22 ◼   ► where I just had to look at it until I got it fixed.

00:13:25 ◼   ► So thumbs up for lamination is what I'm saying.

00:13:29 ◼   ► - And yeah, I didn't really think about that,

00:13:31 ◼   ► but I guess that's one of the things

00:13:32 ◼   ► that makes it look so good too, right?

00:13:34 ◼   ► It's just like the pixels are right there in front of you.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Like, I like that.

00:13:37 ◼   ► I like the look of that a lot.

00:13:39 ◼   ► So it's a subtle thing, but it makes a big difference

00:13:42 ◼   ► for just how good the panel looks.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Obviously I'm using it with my,

00:13:48 ◼   ► you know, the way I've got it set up,

00:13:49 ◼   ► I've had a Thunderbolt dock, the CalDigit dock for a while

00:13:52 ◼   ► that I was using with my display

00:13:53 ◼   ► and I've done some rejiggering to use the dock still

00:13:57 ◼   ► because I have a bunch of things I want to plug in.

00:13:59 ◼   ► It's a mixture of USB-C and USB-A devices.

00:14:03 ◼   ► So the CalDigit dock has that

00:14:05 ◼   ► because obviously this display just has three USB-C ports

00:14:09 ◼   ► that I could use.

00:14:10 ◼   ► And I've noticed immediately lag with my Logitech mouse.

00:14:15 ◼   ► I used the Logitech MX Master 3 mouse,

00:14:17 ◼   ► and I used the little Logitech receiver that they give you.

00:14:21 ◼   ► And it just was not working very well at all.

00:14:23 ◼   ► I expect that this is an issue with the CalDigit dock

00:14:26 ◼   ► for some reason, because on my,

00:14:28 ◼   ► I remembered that I had issues before on my LG monitor,

00:14:31 ◼   ► but the LG monitor had a USB-A port on the back,

00:14:34 ◼   ► so I just put the Logitech receiver in there

00:14:36 ◼   ► and it was no issue.

00:14:37 ◼   ► I don't know why Logitech do not make a USB-C version of their unifying receiver.

00:14:43 ◼   ► Still, it's just USB-A. I've switched to Bluetooth on this mouse for a bit and that's fine.

00:14:50 ◼   ► I prefer the receiver, I do find it to be more reliable.

00:14:53 ◼   ► So I did just order today at Steven's recommendation a USB-C to A dongle and I'm going to try plugging

00:15:00 ◼   ► it into the display.

00:15:02 ◼   ► just in general though there is some rethinking that my desk requires and I'm

00:15:07 ◼   ► not really sure what I'm gonna be doing yet like everything needs to be

00:15:11 ◼   ► rearranged I don't know where to put the laptop anymore because I would put the

00:15:14 ◼   ► laptop underneath the display because the og display that I had clamped on the

00:15:18 ◼   ► back of the desk so there was space underneath but now the foot of the

00:15:21 ◼   ► studio display is there so I can't put it there so I've been I don't know where

00:15:26 ◼   ► to put it you know I've been thinking I wanted to get one of those 12 South

00:15:29 ◼   ► things that stands it up but I saw some reviews online that were seeming to suggest that even

00:15:36 ◼   ► though they claim they have an insert in their book arc it's called for the 14 inch that

00:15:42 ◼   ► it's a little too tight so I'm not sure if I want to go with that option. I have some

00:15:47 ◼   ► rethinking to do for how my desk arrangement is going to be. I'm not sure if the CalDigit

00:15:52 ◼   ► dock will remain because I don't really need a thunderbolt dock. I need something that's

00:15:58 ◼   ► is just USB-C and there are lots of USB-C docks out there that are labeled typically

00:16:03 ◼   ► as travel things but they're much more simple and I might go in that route eventually. I'm

00:16:08 ◼   ► not sure yet I haven't decided. But I will say that overall even with this rearrangement

00:16:14 ◼   ► required my desk looks so much nicer with the display on it. This display is just a

00:16:19 ◼   ► good looking piece of computer hardware way more than the big LG ergonomic display. I

00:16:27 ◼   ► the LG Ergo display on there before. That thing is just not a good looking computer.

00:16:32 ◼   ► But really all of this has been completely, the main reason I wanted this display is that

00:16:39 ◼   ► when I plug in the cable to my, I'm still having, I'm still plugging my MacBook Pro

00:16:46 ◼   ► into the cable that goes into my CalDigit dock and then that dock goes into the Thunderbolt

00:16:50 ◼   ► like port of the display so I can still use everything as normal. But I plug that cable

00:16:55 ◼   ► in the monitor turns on immediately. Every single time without fail. And I did not have

00:17:01 ◼   ► this experience with any other monitor that I was using previously and it drove me crazy

00:17:05 ◼   ► every single day as I had to plug and unplug something to get my monitor to turn on. Sometimes

00:17:12 ◼   ► it would only take one cable for me to unplug, sometimes it would take multiple cables, sometimes

00:17:17 ◼   ► I'd have to open and close the laptop, sometimes I wouldn't, I'd have to do any of that. Just

00:17:20 ◼   ► Laptops closed plug in the cable press either, you know

00:17:24 ◼   ► One key on the keyboard or I click the mouse and the screen comes on and I'm ready to go

00:17:27 ◼   ► Like and that's exactly what I wanted and that's what I've gotten and I'm super happy with it

00:17:31 ◼   ► The height adjustability of this stand is excellent. It's really smooth

00:17:36 ◼   ► Something I did notice is it does wobble like when I'm typing

00:17:41 ◼   ► The display wobbles now again, this is normal to every display that I have used that suspends itself in some way

00:17:50 ◼   ► What I will say to people is if you think that this is something that would bother you do not get this version of the display

00:17:55 ◼   ► Get the one with just a tilt stand and get something to put it on

00:17:59 ◼   ► Like if I'm typing and I'm not an aggressive type of I'm typing

00:18:04 ◼   ► The desk will move right like you you you put bounce in the desk and this the monitor picks it up

00:18:11 ◼   ► Right, like the monitor shakes a little bit again

00:18:13 ◼   ► I sound very used to this now, but you know any monitor is going to shake when your desk shakes though

00:18:18 ◼   ► So it's way more pronounced. It's more pronounced

00:18:22 ◼   ► Okay

00:18:22 ◼   ► So like I would say it's probably akin to if you use a Vasa

00:18:25 ◼   ► Like it would probably be pretty similar if you use a Vasa suspended monitor

00:18:29 ◼   ► But this is like this is not something that I notice at all on the desk that I'm on right now

00:18:34 ◼   ► where I've got my iMac sitting on top of just a stand because it's

00:18:39 ◼   ► the

00:18:41 ◼   ► There isn't so much of a residual wobble

00:18:43 ◼   ► afterwards and this I mean the things not going wild but I just know how particular Mac users can be right some people and if you

00:18:51 ◼   ► Wouldn't have thought this was a thing that could happen. I think it's a good PSA to remind people that it can happen

00:18:57 ◼   ► So but the height adjustability is a must for me. I got my ruler out to scales and rulers

00:19:03 ◼   ► I've been dealing with over the last couple of days. So my iMac

00:19:06 ◼   ► The bottom pixel edge, right? So like if you imagine from where the screen ends, right?

00:19:13 ◼   ► That is 15.2 centimeters to the desk.

00:19:18 ◼   ► The reason I say it that way is like the actual bottom

00:19:22 ◼   ► of the computer is 8.5 centimeters to the desk,

00:19:24 ◼   ► but it has the chin, right?

00:19:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:19:26 ◼   ► - So an iMac, the 24 inch iMac sitting straight on the desk,

00:19:31 ◼   ► that's how high, that's like kind of 15 centimeters,

00:19:34 ◼   ► 15.2 centimeters from the desk is where the monitor begins.

00:19:37 ◼   ► Now I have to put mine on a little stand

00:19:39 ◼   ► 'cause that's too low for me.

00:19:41 ◼   ► The studio displays a comfortable height.

00:19:44 ◼   ► That measurement is 19.5 centimeters.

00:19:47 ◼   ► So it's like four and a bit centimeters difference.

00:19:51 ◼   ► That to me is the level of this is comfortable

00:19:56 ◼   ► to this is uncomfortable.

00:19:57 ◼   ► - That's good.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Also, if you do a,

00:19:59 ◼   ► I don't know if you have a sit stand desk,

00:20:01 ◼   ► but you usually need to adjust the height

00:20:04 ◼   ► when you change configurations too,

00:20:06 ◼   ► or at least a lot of people do.

00:20:08 ◼   ► That's one of the reasons I have my monitor

00:20:10 ◼   ► usually on an arm is when I go standing,

00:20:14 ◼   ► I need it at a different height.

00:20:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, and now I have this, right?

00:20:17 ◼   ► And it really is great.

00:20:19 ◼   ► There's a lot of variation in the height

00:20:22 ◼   ► that you can get from the display stand,

00:20:24 ◼   ► so I'm really happy with that.

00:20:26 ◼   ► The second thing that I was intrigued about

00:20:28 ◼   ► was the webcam flickering.

00:20:30 ◼   ► Now, here's a funny thing about this.

00:20:34 ◼   ► When I open any app for the first time

00:20:38 ◼   ► that uses the camera, I get the flickering

00:20:42 ◼   ► from my overhead lights as I had prior to Mac OS 12.3.

00:20:47 ◼   ► If I quit the app and relaunch it, it's fixed.

00:20:52 ◼   ► This is not the behavior on my iMac or on my MacBook Pro.

00:20:59 ◼   ► - And it's not when you engage the camera the first time,

00:21:02 ◼   ► because if you go to a different app, it also does it?

00:21:05 ◼   ► - Correct.

00:21:06 ◼   ► So it happened in FaceTime, I quit FaceTime, I wrote some notes being like "oh they've

00:21:11 ◼   ► ruined it, it doesn't work" and then I open FaceTime again and it happened for half a

00:21:15 ◼   ► second and then it fixed itself.

00:21:19 ◼   ► Then I opened Zoom, same thing.

00:21:22 ◼   ► I wonder if there's something in the background that's basically doing flicker detection.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Per app?

00:21:28 ◼   ► It should be doing that, like because there are other, like Logitech's cameras can do

00:21:31 ◼   ► this, right?

00:21:32 ◼   ► Like other cameras do this, they recognize there's a flicker and then they fix it.

00:21:35 ◼   ► iPhones do it. So I've seen it happen on iPhones before. Like it recognizes it to flicker just

00:21:40 ◼   ► for a second and then it adjusts something in the camera so you stop getting the flickering

00:21:45 ◼   ► from the lights. I don't know why it's happening. I mean it's very strange but then it fixes

00:21:53 ◼   ► itself. So it's odd. I now know that it happens. I give this recommendation to people out there

00:21:59 ◼   ► who are getting one of these and have a similar situation to me. Just quit the app and start

00:22:04 ◼   ► again and the flickering will stop. Very odd. But in general, I mean, I share the same feeling

00:22:11 ◼   ► about the camera as many reviewers. It looks worse compared to my MacBook Pro and my iMac

00:22:17 ◼   ► in my opinion. The colors are really washed out. I look and everything looks really smooth.

00:22:23 ◼   ► I look like an oil painting.

00:22:24 ◼   ► It is, yeah. It is doing, I've seen a bunch of samples and I've seen it in certain light

00:22:28 ◼   ► with mine, it is aggressively processing.

00:22:33 ◼   ► James Thompson posted sort of two comparisons in his office space, and you can see like,

00:22:38 ◼   ► I mean, you can actually see what it's doing probably wrong, which may be the thing that

00:22:43 ◼   ► they fix in software, which is he was, he had one shot where there's like the blacks

00:22:47 ◼   ► are blacker and that you can see some shadows and stuff.

00:22:50 ◼   ► And then on the studio display webcam, it's like it's trying desperately to have there

00:22:54 ◼   ► be no blacks in the display or in the screen at all, and it's trying to lighten everything

00:22:59 ◼   ► and get him to be completely the same. It's like a low dynamic range, like let's smooth

00:23:06 ◼   ► this out as much as possible and have as little dynamic range as possible. And it does actually

00:23:11 ◼   ► feel like the processing is making bad decisions, like let's flatten this. And when I got in

00:23:18 ◼   ► a lower light situation, even when we were doing our webcast the other week, at the end

00:23:22 ◼   ► of it where I was, I dropped the blinds in my office and turned off some of the lights

00:23:25 ◼   ► and or even when I turned on the really bright lights, it started to look weird because it

00:23:30 ◼   ► was trying to flatten everything out. So some of that is an effect of taking a portion of

00:23:36 ◼   ► a wide angle camera and adjusting it and not having as much resolution. But I do think

00:23:42 ◼   ► some of it is that there it's making some bad choices about what you think your picture

00:23:49 ◼   ► should look like and it's like I want a really artificial and maybe this was like what they

00:23:54 ◼   ► thought like this is what people want for their web their video conferences right is

00:23:59 ◼   ► a flat you know no contrast no shadows as flat and and smooth as possible but you go

00:24:07 ◼   ► too far down that path and yeah you look like a painting

00:24:09 ◼   ► I've also experienced the weird center stage thing where it feels like the camera person

00:24:15 ◼   ► stop paying attention. Sure. Where like you move and it takes a long time and then it's

00:24:20 ◼   ► like oh there you are and which is again not what I've experienced with iPads. And then

00:24:24 ◼   ► my favorite thing is that when you turn it off and the framing is way too high. Yeah!

00:24:29 ◼   ► Yeah it's like suddenly it's like you're peeking in from the bottom of the screen hello! It

00:24:33 ◼   ► looks like bring your child to work day. Yeah I don't know what they were thinking about

00:24:38 ◼   ► that it's the way it's framed. It's so weird because it's not, you know, it can see my

00:24:45 ◼   ► whole body or at least my whole, you know, sitting in a chair upper half when it's in

00:24:50 ◼   ► center stage mode. But when I turn it off, it's like, no, I can only really see up to

00:24:54 ◼   ► your, you know, from your nose up. It's like, well, why did that, why was that chosen as

00:24:59 ◼   ► the off crop for this display? It seems so strange. And of course there's no setting

00:25:03 ◼   ► 'cause a nice thing you could do is say,

00:25:06 ◼   ► when I turn it off, here's what I want the crop to be,

00:25:09 ◼   ► or at least, or give me a little UI

00:25:10 ◼   ► where I could sort of drag out.

00:25:12 ◼   ► I don't wanna use center stage,

00:25:13 ◼   ► but I wanna choose what my crop is.

00:25:15 ◼   ► That's the beauty of having this wide angle lens

00:25:18 ◼   ► is that you could actually sort of choose.

00:25:19 ◼   ► No, it's just gonna give you your eyes

00:25:23 ◼   ► and your head, top of your head, that's it.

00:25:26 ◼   ► So it's, I don't get it.

00:25:28 ◼   ► - Kind of like it's a comparison.

00:25:29 ◼   ► If I use the webcam on my iMac,

00:25:32 ◼   ► It's almost kind of like it's looking down on me a little bit,

00:25:35 ◼   ► but I still see my head and most of my shoulders.

00:25:37 ◼   ► If I turn off or like I open Photobooth because center stage doesn't work there,

00:25:41 ◼   ► it's basically like just three quarters of the top part of my head is all you see.

00:25:47 ◼   ► It's like, "What is going on?"

00:25:49 ◼   ► Like, it's just such a weird, very high crop that it's taken here.

00:25:52 ◼   ► Because I don't know what they do.

00:25:54 ◼   ► Very weird.

00:25:56 ◼   ► You know, look, I share the same thoughts as most people out there,

00:26:01 ◼   ► reviewers, listeners, Apple is doing just a very bad job of front facing cameras in

00:26:06 ◼   ► their computers and I kind of can't believe we're still having this conversation.

00:26:11 ◼   ► It's just not acceptable anymore.

00:26:13 ◼   ► They have to do a better job, especially on something like this, when there is room.

00:26:20 ◼   ► I understand the argument a little bit more for the laptops because they're really thin.

00:26:26 ◼   ► These monitors are thick.

00:26:28 ◼   ► you could put a lot of hardware in there if you wanted to. They've just chosen not to.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Whatever they're prioritizing to deprioritize the camera, I'm very confident it's the wrong

00:26:38 ◼   ► decision today.

00:26:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they've been giving a lot of feedback about that, which is good, because

00:26:42 ◼   ► that is one way that they change things. I have a couple of theories. One is, and I know

00:26:46 ◼   ► I talked about it before, I wrote a Macworld column about it, I think they get caught up

00:26:50 ◼   ► in reusing their tech, and so they had the center stage camera from the iPad, and they're

00:26:55 ◼   ► "Oh, people love it, I'm gonna put it in this $1600 display."

00:26:58 ◼   ► And maybe the context of a computer display,

00:27:03 ◼   ► people had higher expectations for quality.

00:27:05 ◼   ► And also that they chose, they prioritize,

00:27:10 ◼   ► and again, I can argue this

00:27:11 ◼   ► 'cause I really like center stage

00:27:12 ◼   ► and in most of my lighting conditions,

00:27:14 ◼   ► the camera looks fine, but here's the thing.

00:27:16 ◼   ► They could have put, let's just say it,

00:27:19 ◼   ► they could have put a 4K webcam in there

00:27:21 ◼   ► and they prioritize center stage

00:27:23 ◼   ► 'cause they're like, "Yeah."

00:27:24 ◼   ► you know, actually the lower quality camera

00:27:26 ◼   ► with center stage is better because we think it's better

00:27:30 ◼   ► or because we invented it

00:27:31 ◼   ► or because our plan is to reuse this

00:27:34 ◼   ► or, and I think this is a theory that might be true,

00:27:37 ◼   ► we're gonna save the more expensive part

00:27:39 ◼   ► for our more expensive display that we sell for $2,500,

00:27:44 ◼   ► 'cause I think maybe that product is coming.

00:27:46 ◼   ► And that this is the bottom of the line display.

00:27:51 ◼   ► But I agree with you that

00:27:54 ◼   ► I think the reaction shows that Apple's assumption

00:27:59 ◼   ► that the center stage camera would be good enough

00:28:02 ◼   ► in this context was probably wrong

00:28:06 ◼   ► or at least a little misguided

00:28:08 ◼   ► and that a lot of people expected something better

00:28:12 ◼   ► and that it was the wrong trade off to make.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Now I really like center stage

00:28:15 ◼   ► and I'm glad that it's on the Mac,

00:28:17 ◼   ► but and I'm a little mystified why a 12 megapixel,

00:28:21 ◼   ► like a 12 megapixel camera facing you,

00:28:25 ◼   ► that's like, that should be really good, right?

00:28:29 ◼   ► But it's, something is going on here.

00:28:31 ◼   ► And I know it's a wide angle,

00:28:33 ◼   ► so it's grabbing a lot of pixels

00:28:34 ◼   ► that it actually can't use most of the time.

00:28:36 ◼   ► And that's part of their decision-making process here.

00:28:38 ◼   ► But yeah, whether they got caught up

00:28:42 ◼   ► in their own excitement about center stage

00:28:44 ◼   ► or whether they're actually withholding a better camera

00:28:47 ◼   ► for a more expensive product,

00:28:49 ◼   ► I think I would argue that that would be a mistake too,

00:28:51 ◼   ► because this is a $1600 display

00:28:53 ◼   ► and you really ought to prioritize that.

00:28:55 ◼   ► And I mean, I'll throw in the heap, Myke,

00:28:58 ◼   ► the Apple's, I get the laptop limitations,

00:29:02 ◼   ► but yeah, on the iMac and on this display,

00:29:05 ◼   ► I also am disappointed about the fact

00:29:06 ◼   ► that we have Face ID on iPhones and iPads

00:29:10 ◼   ► and they haven't done that on the Mac either.

00:29:12 ◼   ► And that's also disappointing.

00:29:14 ◼   ► - Last thing I wanted to mention is the speakers,

00:29:17 ◼   ► they're pretty good,

00:29:18 ◼   ► but it kind of doesn't really matter to me.

00:29:19 ◼   ► I'm just happy to have speakers on my monitor again, I guess I didn't.

00:29:23 ◼   ► On my OG display I didn't have speakers.

00:29:26 ◼   ► So if I wanted to play any audio I would either plug in my AirPods, I would play it very quickly

00:29:31 ◼   ► on my closed laptop, which actually was better than I would have expected it to sound.

00:29:36 ◼   ► The speakers on the MacBook Pro are so good they break through the closeness.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Or I would use AirPlay to my HomePod Mini.

00:29:45 ◼   ► None of those are as good and as useful as just having good speakers built into the display,

00:29:49 ◼   ► which I didn't have on the display that this replaced.

00:29:52 ◼   ► So yeah, I would say all in all, for me,

00:29:55 ◼   ► this was worth waiting for,

00:29:56 ◼   ► and I'm really happy with this product.

00:29:59 ◼   ► It is not perfect, but it does most of the things I need

00:30:03 ◼   ► better and/or to my level of expecting

00:30:06 ◼   ► with just a few things that they've fallen down on.

00:30:09 ◼   ► But honestly, with the camera being the main issue for me,

00:30:13 ◼   ► I expected that.

00:30:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it shows,

00:30:15 ◼   ► and this is the thing that I think gets missed.

00:30:17 ◼   ► ATP did a good segment about this

00:30:18 ◼   ► where they've tried to explain like why the retina resolution

00:30:23 ◼   ► matters to some people and why if you're in the Apple ecosystem

00:30:26 ◼   ► having an Apple built monitor that sort of looks nice

00:30:29 ◼   ► and fits in with stuff and is tested to work.

00:30:33 ◼   ► So you plug it in and things charge and things work

00:30:36 ◼   ► and all that like there is value in that.

00:30:38 ◼   ► And this is I wanted to do a little tangent

00:30:40 ◼   ► about the reviews of this product

00:30:42 ◼   ► and the subjectivity of reviews in general

00:30:44 ◼   ► because a bunch of these reviews are,

00:30:48 ◼   ► but there are other monitors that are cheaper,

00:30:52 ◼   ► which totally misses the point

00:30:53 ◼   ► that this monitor is filling a niche

00:30:55 ◼   ► that previously only the ultra fine filled.

00:30:58 ◼   ► And I would prefer a world

00:31:01 ◼   ► where there was lots of stiff competition

00:31:03 ◼   ► to make displays at the resolution

00:31:07 ◼   ► that Apple has defined as a retina resolution for the Mac.

00:31:11 ◼   ► And the problem is there isn't,

00:31:14 ◼   ► there just isn't, nobody else did it.

00:31:16 ◼   ► There's just the ultra fine.

00:31:18 ◼   ► And now this product is there and it is an Apple product.

00:31:20 ◼   ► And it is better in a lot of ways than that ultra fine,

00:31:23 ◼   ► which wasn't that much less expensive than this product.

00:31:26 ◼   ► And that has a value and it doesn't matter

00:31:30 ◼   ► if you care about that stuff,

00:31:32 ◼   ► it doesn't matter that you could buy a cheaper monitor

00:31:35 ◼   ► that's at a lesser resolution

00:31:37 ◼   ► because that's not the product you want.

00:31:39 ◼   ► And that's not your preference on this.

00:31:42 ◼   ► Also, I find perplexing some of the reviews that complain

00:31:45 ◼   ► that this monitor isn't another product that doesn't exist.

00:31:49 ◼   ► Quinn Nelson recently did a video

00:31:53 ◼   ► on his Stasi Labs channel about this display.

00:31:58 ◼   ► And it's largely him complaining.

00:32:01 ◼   ► And Quinn is great.

00:32:02 ◼   ► I love him, I love his videos,

00:32:03 ◼   ► but that video is basically,

00:32:05 ◼   ► why isn't this a $2,500 micro LED display?

00:32:09 ◼   ► which I would argue, that's a good question.

00:32:11 ◼   ► That would be an interesting product.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Apple may be making that product.

00:32:17 ◼   ► There are rumors that Apple is making that product.

00:32:19 ◼   ► That said, this is not a $2,500 micro LED display.

00:32:23 ◼   ► It's a $1,600 display.

00:32:26 ◼   ► And at least personally,

00:32:30 ◼   ► it doesn't change the fact that a whole lot of people

00:32:32 ◼   ► have been falling over themselves to buy this display

00:32:35 ◼   ► because it fills a need

00:32:36 ◼   ► that has been so poorly filled for seven years

00:32:38 ◼   ► when Apple said, "We're getting out of the business

00:32:39 ◼   ► "and we're just having LG make a monitor."

00:32:41 ◼   ► And that literally is the only one

00:32:43 ◼   ► that kind of fills all of these needs

00:32:45 ◼   ► other than the $6,000 display.

00:32:47 ◼   ► A lot of us, and I'm speaking for myself here too,

00:32:51 ◼   ► if they made a $2,500 micro LED display, I wouldn't buy it.

00:32:56 ◼   ► Not spending that money.

00:32:59 ◼   ► I'm not gonna, I'll buy a $1,600 display

00:33:01 ◼   ► and I have $2,500 display, something like that

00:33:04 ◼   ► with the cutting edge tech in it.

00:33:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know how nice it would look for my needs.

00:33:11 ◼   ► I'd really rather have a $900 cheaper display

00:33:15 ◼   ► that is this display.

00:33:17 ◼   ► And if you boil it down beyond that,

00:33:20 ◼   ► what you end up with is essentially the argument

00:33:22 ◼   ► that I wish it was cheaper,

00:33:24 ◼   ► which you can make about literally

00:33:25 ◼   ► every Apple product ever made, which is like, yes.

00:33:28 ◼   ► Would I rather that this monitor be $1,000?

00:33:31 ◼   ► Sure, that would save me $600.

00:33:34 ◼   ► - I would like it to be 10, just $10.

00:33:37 ◼   ► - It should just be bundled with the studio.

00:33:39 ◼   ► You get buy one, get one free.

00:33:41 ◼   ► And again, like you can make that argument,

00:33:45 ◼   ► I wish Apple stuff were cheaper.

00:33:47 ◼   ► People have been making that argument

00:33:48 ◼   ► literally since Apple started and guess what?

00:33:51 ◼   ► Apple isn't gonna make it cheaper for you.

00:33:53 ◼   ► They're not, they just, they'd like money

00:33:56 ◼   ► and they know people will pay extra for the Apple stuff.

00:33:59 ◼   ► And so they will, and that's what this display is.

00:34:01 ◼   ► So in the end, I think a lot of these reviews

00:34:03 ◼   ► are basically like, I can't believe that Apple people

00:34:07 ◼   ► are so focused on Apple's level of design and quality

00:34:11 ◼   ► and the resolution of the display,

00:34:13 ◼   ► that they're willing to spend $1600

00:34:15 ◼   ► when they could buy something that is lesser,

00:34:18 ◼   ► but it's stuff that, you know, whatever for cheaper.

00:34:21 ◼   ► And I don't know, it's kind of the classic

00:34:24 ◼   ► Mac versus PC argument, which is all this stuff

00:34:28 ◼   ► that you guys care about, I don't care about.

00:34:31 ◼   ► And so why are you buying this thing?

00:34:33 ◼   ► You're dumb or you're cultists or you're suckers

00:34:36 ◼   ► that have been conned by Apple's marketing.

00:34:38 ◼   ► And I'm not saying that if you don't want this display

00:34:42 ◼   ► and if you like those other displays,

00:34:44 ◼   ► there's anything wrong with that.

00:34:45 ◼   ► I know a bunch of people who have non-Apple,

00:34:47 ◼   ► non-ultra fine external displays with less resolution

00:34:50 ◼   ► and they're fine with it.

00:34:52 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:34:53 ◼   ► I have a problem with somebody looking at a product

00:34:56 ◼   ► that a whole lot of us have really, really wanted.

00:34:59 ◼   ► And yeah, we wish it was a little bit better

00:35:00 ◼   ► and yeah, we wish it was a little bit cheaper,

00:35:02 ◼   ► but it fills a thing that has not been fulfilled

00:35:04 ◼   ► really by anything for seven years

00:35:07 ◼   ► and say all the stuff that you care about doesn't matter

00:35:11 ◼   ► just by a cheap display.

00:35:13 ◼   ► Because what kind of argument is that?

00:35:15 ◼   ► And that is a function of some of the reviews

00:35:18 ◼   ► of this product that I don't appreciate

00:35:22 ◼   ► because they are discounting things

00:35:25 ◼   ► that some of us care about.

00:35:27 ◼   ► And just the existence of a cheap monitor

00:35:30 ◼   ► does not mean that everybody should run out

00:35:31 ◼   ► and buy a cheap monitor.

00:35:32 ◼   ► This is, I wish there was competition for Apple,

00:35:35 ◼   ► don't get me wrong.

00:35:36 ◼   ► I want somebody to make this display

00:35:38 ◼   ► or a version of this display and sell it for $800

00:35:41 ◼   ► and totally undercut Apple.

00:35:43 ◼   ► But guess what?

00:35:43 ◼   ► Apple tried that seven years ago, didn't happen.

00:35:46 ◼   ► So this is what we're left with,

00:35:48 ◼   ► is something from Apple that does everything

00:35:50 ◼   ► that Apple promises that it does

00:35:52 ◼   ► other than maybe the center stage should have been better.

00:35:55 ◼   ► But like you get what I'm saying?

00:35:57 ◼   ► It's like it is the Apple monitor.

00:35:59 ◼   ► And yes, it does cost more than we wanna pay

00:36:02 ◼   ► just like everything else Apple makes.

00:36:04 ◼   ► I'm glad it exists and a lot of people are very glad

00:36:08 ◼   ► that it exists and we'll buy it.

00:36:10 ◼   ► And the existence of cheaper monitors

00:36:13 ◼   ► that don't do what this monitor does, doesn't change that.

00:36:18 ◼   ► The imagination of a dream monitor

00:36:22 ◼   ► made of cutting edge technology

00:36:24 ◼   ► that costs another 1000 or $1,500

00:36:27 ◼   ► doesn't change what this product is.

00:36:29 ◼   ► So I think you can be critical of some of the choices Apple made in this product, but

00:36:33 ◼   ► I think that there are a lot of people who go beyond that and start to say, "Well, why

00:36:37 ◼   ► would you ever buy this when you can just buy a $600 Dell monitor and be fine?"

00:36:41 ◼   ► It's like, "Okay, yeah, I could buy a HP laptop for $500 too, but I don't."

00:36:48 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by FitPod.

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00:37:45 ◼   ► angles how to complete every exercise. For me and I think for many others personal fitness

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00:37:55 ◼   ► want to stack up against anybody else, I just want to find something that works for me.

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00:38:50 ◼   ► device may be a wearable smartwatch as well. You're going to get access to it there so

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00:39:04 ◼   ► year. It's really great value and you can get 25% off that membership by signing up

00:39:09 ◼   ► at fitbod.me/upgrade. Obviously the real pro move there is to get the annual one, get 25%

00:39:14 ◼   ► of that, that's pretty great. So go now and get your customized fitness plan at fitbod.me/upgrade

00:39:20 ◼   ► and you'll get 25% off your membership as fitbod.me/upgrade for 25% off. Our thanks

00:39:26 ◼   ► to Fitbod for their support of this show and Relay FM. So your studio, max studio mounting system

00:39:35 ◼   ► came in, right? Your new shelf? Is that what it's called? It's a system. It's quite a system. It's a

00:39:40 ◼   ► plastic or I got a loose site. I don't know what it is. Acrylic, let's say. This is the

00:39:48 ◼   ► newer technology new shelf dual mount for the Apple Mac Mini 2010 to current. It is currently

00:39:57 ◼   ► available only one in stock because –

00:39:59 ◼   ► I think we've done a run on this.

00:40:02 ◼   ► Yeah. And it's – they said more coming soon, which I think is interesting. Available

00:40:08 ◼   ► normally $44.99, currently a cyber saver for $24.75. Probably by the time you hear this,

00:40:13 ◼   ► they'll be sold out of this. Basically, Otherworld Computing made a thing that was

00:40:18 ◼   ► the size of sort of two Mac minis because they sell a bunch of newer technology branded

00:40:24 ◼   ► mini-sized hard drive enclosures and stuff like that so you can make a stack. I used

00:40:28 ◼   ► to have a mini-stack hard drive that my Mac Mini sat on. And so they made this acrylic

00:40:35 ◼   ► thing, and it basically is the size of these two-stack Mac Minis, and it has four holes

00:40:40 ◼   ► and screws, and you screw it under your desk, and then your Mac Mini is under your desk

00:40:44 ◼   ► with that hard drive attached. And guess what? It fits the Mac Studio. Not perfectly, it's

00:40:49 ◼   ► got a hole in the bottom, and the idea there is that there's the little bump on the bottom

00:40:53 ◼   ► of the Mac Mini and it will sort of like drop in and it's a little too small for the Mac

00:40:58 ◼   ► Studio to drop in but it's fine. It fits fine. It's got little tabs on the back. Stephen

00:41:03 ◼   ► Hackett was really concerned that if you tried to plug in something on one of the front ports,

00:41:06 ◼   ► all you would do is shoot your Mac Studio out the back end and that there are little

00:41:12 ◼   ► tabs there to kind of hold it in place so it doesn't do that. But it's completely open

00:41:17 ◼   ► on the front and the back and there's enough space in there for there to be actually some

00:41:22 ◼   ► airflow on the sides as well and the top. And so I bought one just to try it out and

00:41:27 ◼   ► I put it under my desk and that's where my Mac studio is now. It's actually under my

00:41:30 ◼   ► desk toward the front so I can plug into the front ports or put a card in the SD card slot.

00:41:36 ◼   ► I can reach behind and press the power button if I want to do that. It's all kind of reachable

00:41:41 ◼   ► if I just kind of lean over a little bit. It's nice. Somebody sent me a link to somebody

00:41:48 ◼   ► who is making a 3D printed max studio under mount and it looks nice because it's gonna

00:41:57 ◼   ► be to the exact specifications of the max studio. It is 3D printed so it's like it's

00:42:04 ◼   ► gonna be a little kind of textured plastic thing which is fine. What I really would like

00:42:10 ◼   ► to see so I've got my USB interface audio interface in something that's made for like

00:42:15 ◼   ► I don't even know what, some PC something,

00:42:19 ◼   ► but it's like a little metal shelf.

00:42:21 ◼   ► And that's what I'd really like to see,

00:42:24 ◼   ► is somebody to make a,

00:42:26 ◼   ► and these are undoubtedly already being fabricated,

00:42:28 ◼   ► but like a metal version of what OWC did for the Mac mini,

00:42:33 ◼   ► that is exactly the size of the Mac studio,

00:42:38 ◼   ► or with some room, but fits it.

00:42:40 ◼   ► And the ones that are out there on Amazon today

00:42:41 ◼   ► are all a little too big or too small,

00:42:45 ◼   ► 'cause I think a metal one would make me feel better

00:42:47 ◼   ► than this acrylic one, but it seems perfectly stable

00:42:50 ◼   ► and it works.

00:42:52 ◼   ► It's funny 'cause it's not the product it's meant for,

00:42:54 ◼   ► but it does work.

00:42:56 ◼   ► And I would be shocked also if OWC wasn't working already

00:42:59 ◼   ► on like a new version of this

00:43:01 ◼   ► that actually fits the Max Studio.

00:43:05 ◼   ► But in the meantime, they are making hay

00:43:08 ◼   ► with the new shelf dual mount that they made years ago

00:43:14 ◼   ► and have been selling discounted.

00:43:15 ◼   ► And it's suddenly more relevant than it was.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I also expect that somebody like 12 South

00:43:21 ◼   ► is gonna come up with a bunch of Mac Studio accessories

00:43:23 ◼   ► at some point that are also very nicely designed

00:43:26 ◼   ► and a little more expensive maybe than you'd like,

00:43:28 ◼   ► but they're so nice that you end up buying them anyway,

00:43:30 ◼   ► 'cause that's their bit.

00:43:32 ◼   ► But yeah, it's great.

00:43:33 ◼   ► It's so nice.

00:43:34 ◼   ► You talked about your desk layout.

00:43:37 ◼   ► After a couple of weeks with a Mac Studio on my desk,

00:43:41 ◼   ► I really like that it's under my desk now.

00:43:44 ◼   ► My desk just feels that much more open

00:43:47 ◼   ► and there's really only two cables running under my desk

00:43:50 ◼   ► or running over my desk.

00:43:52 ◼   ► There's the power cable for the display.

00:43:54 ◼   ► And then there's the Thunderbolt cable

00:43:55 ◼   ► that goes from the display to the Mac studio,

00:43:57 ◼   ► which at the moment is running forward

00:44:00 ◼   ► over the front of my desk,

00:44:02 ◼   ► because it's the Apple one that's only a meter long

00:44:04 ◼   ► and it can't go the other way.

00:44:07 ◼   ► So I also bought a two meter long Thunderbolt cable

00:44:10 ◼   ► for way more money than I would like.

00:44:11 ◼   ► - For a million dollars?

00:44:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, for $10 million.

00:44:14 ◼   ► - Wow, $10 million.

00:44:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it's really good.

00:44:17 ◼   ► It's really good.

00:44:18 ◼   ► And so I'm looking forward to

00:44:21 ◼   ► when I get the thesis mount display next week,

00:44:24 ◼   ► and I'm gonna be able to run those two cables

00:44:26 ◼   ► over the arm and everything else will be hidden away.

00:44:30 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to that.

00:44:31 ◼   ► That'll be great.

00:44:32 ◼   ► But in the meantime,

00:44:33 ◼   ► it has been fun to get that thing under my desk

00:44:36 ◼   ► where it feels like it belongs.

00:44:39 ◼   ► The sheriff of Rheumerville, Mark Gurman,

00:44:41 ◼   ► is reporting that Apple is currently working

00:44:43 ◼   ► on building an entire infrastructure

00:44:46 ◼   ► to provide financial services.

00:44:48 ◼   ► This would include, quote, "Payment processing,

00:44:50 ◼   ► "risk assessment for lending, fraud analysis,

00:44:53 ◼   ► "credit checks, and additional customer service functions

00:44:57 ◼   ► "such as the handling of disputes."

00:44:59 ◼   ► This adds even more weight to our discussion

00:45:01 ◼   ► about credit kudos last week,

00:45:03 ◼   ► not being for the Apple card, but for something else.

00:45:07 ◼   ► Mark mentions that this effort is focused on future products

00:45:11 ◼   ► rather than Apple's current lineup of services.

00:45:15 ◼   ► - Right, there is this one, you know,

00:45:17 ◼   ► this idea that they're going to convert the Apple,

00:45:19 ◼   ► the iPhone upgrade program, which is a loan,

00:45:24 ◼   ► and then you can, you know, it's structured that way

00:45:27 ◼   ► into a service that would be administered by Apple

00:45:31 ◼   ► where you'd pay a monthly fee.

00:45:32 ◼   ► - And there's also this like pay-in-for installments thing

00:45:35 ◼   ► which apparently is coming too.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - Right, because that's very, very popular, right?

00:45:39 ◼   ► That's a trend that I know we haven't discussed it,

00:45:42 ◼   ► but these services that allow you to pay

00:45:45 ◼   ► four monthly installments instead

00:45:48 ◼   ► that are very popular with the Youngs,

00:45:50 ◼   ► that Apple's gonna build its own version of that too.

00:45:54 ◼   ► And this is all, I know we talked about this

00:45:57 ◼   ► a little bit last week, but like,

00:45:59 ◼   ► this is exactly what you would expect from Apple,

00:46:02 ◼   ► even though this is an area where you're like,

00:46:03 ◼   ► really Apple's gonna build financial products?

00:46:06 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, but what is this really?

00:46:07 ◼   ► This is Apple starting something by finding partners

00:46:11 ◼   ► and then realizing all the strengths and weaknesses

00:46:13 ◼   ► of the partners and saying,

00:46:15 ◼   ► we could build our own version of this

00:46:17 ◼   ► and keep it all in house.

00:46:18 ◼   ► And they apparently are doing that.

00:46:21 ◼   ► They're gonna build their own financial structure.

00:46:24 ◼   ► We joked about it with the Apple card,

00:46:26 ◼   ► but now I'm really wondering,

00:46:27 ◼   ► can the bank of Apple be far behind?

00:46:30 ◼   ► even if nobody can get an account at the bank of Apple,

00:46:34 ◼   ► it would not surprise me if Apple just continues

00:46:36 ◼   ► to build things and requires--

00:46:38 ◼   ► - If you have all the money in the world,

00:46:41 ◼   ► you might as well do something with it.

00:46:42 ◼   ► Yeah, what else are you gonna do?

00:46:44 ◼   ► Just start using that cash to secure against lending.

00:46:47 ◼   ► Like, why not, you know, go for it.

00:46:49 ◼   ► I don't know what this is gonna look like, honestly.

00:46:51 ◼   ► Like, you know, obviously I can read what Mark has said,

00:46:53 ◼   ► but like, do I imagine them to actually have bank accounts?

00:46:57 ◼   ► Like, I don't know.

00:46:58 ◼   ► - No, I mean, I wouldn't.

00:47:00 ◼   ► Although, in some ways, Apple Cash is kind of that.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Also, I'll point out Apple Cash only in the US still, right?

00:47:09 ◼   ► And I wonder if some of this is,

00:47:11 ◼   ► they use the US as a test ground and they're like,

00:47:13 ◼   ► "Okay, if we wanna build this out,

00:47:15 ◼   ► "we can either partner with different partners

00:47:16 ◼   ► "in all these different countries,

00:47:18 ◼   ► "or we could just do it."

00:47:21 ◼   ► And it makes me wonder if that's part of this too,

00:47:23 ◼   ► is that they're just gonna roll it out

00:47:25 ◼   ► and they're gonna take care of getting in every country

00:47:28 ◼   ► and rolling it out instead of finding partners

00:47:30 ◼   ► and having negotiate.

00:47:31 ◼   ► It's probably hard too, right?

00:47:32 ◼   ► To find a willing partner who is willing to do

00:47:35 ◼   ► what Apple demands of them.

00:47:36 ◼   ► - It's harder though, Jason, to get banking licenses.

00:47:39 ◼   ► So I don't really know what their plan is.

00:47:42 ◼   ► - It is, but it depends on what licenses are required

00:47:44 ◼   ► to do what, but yeah.

00:47:45 ◼   ► - Or what they wanna do, yeah.

00:47:46 ◼   ► - It's true.

00:47:47 ◼   ► And that's the case.

00:47:49 ◼   ► It was the case with their carrier rollouts too, right?

00:47:51 ◼   ► The advantage they had there is that they had a product

00:47:53 ◼   ► everybody wanted.

00:47:54 ◼   ► So yeah, I don't know.

00:47:56 ◼   ► It's fascinating.

00:47:57 ◼   ► it seems like they really got to the point

00:47:58 ◼   ► where they realized there was a bunch of stuff

00:48:00 ◼   ► that they felt either they could make more money

00:48:04 ◼   ► doing it in house or that they were things that they,

00:48:06 ◼   ► the products that they could not easily create

00:48:09 ◼   ► by working with partners.

00:48:10 ◼   ► And so they've decided to just go ahead

00:48:12 ◼   ► and build some financial services functionality inside.

00:48:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what form it is.

00:48:19 ◼   ► - Never discount Apple's allergy

00:48:21 ◼   ► towards working with other companies as well, right?

00:48:24 ◼   ► - Oh, absolutely.

00:48:25 ◼   ► I think that's number one on the list, right?

00:48:26 ◼   ► which is we have to use a partner.

00:48:30 ◼   ► And like, if you see the benefit of using a partner,

00:48:33 ◼   ► it's different, but there's also this feeling,

00:48:35 ◼   ► and I suspect this happens a lot at Apple,

00:48:37 ◼   ► which is, "Oh, we have to use these guys.

00:48:40 ◼   ► They're slow, they don't think like us.

00:48:42 ◼   ► They keep trying to do shifty stuff that we don't like."

00:48:44 ◼   ► You know, it's just, it feels like a very much

00:48:47 ◼   ► what we would expect from Apple,

00:48:50 ◼   ► which is that they'd rather go it alone if they can,

00:48:52 ◼   ► if they think that it's important.

00:48:54 ◼   ► And this is the thing is I think they've decided

00:48:56 ◼   ► that the financial aspect of what they're doing

00:48:58 ◼   ► is so important that they really ought to own

00:49:00 ◼   ► as much of it as they can.

00:49:02 ◼   ► - Audio Hijack 4 is available now.

00:49:05 ◼   ► - It is.

00:49:06 ◼   ► - I know you've been very excited about this

00:49:08 ◼   ► over the last few months

00:49:09 ◼   ► and you've been up to all kinds of shenanigans.

00:49:11 ◼   ► Do you want to give the upgrade as a little overview

00:49:13 ◼   ► of what's new in Audio Hijack 4?

00:49:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, so Audio Hijack 4, it's an update.

00:49:17 ◼   ► I think the last version of Audio Hijack

00:49:19 ◼   ► was released a long time ago.

00:49:20 ◼   ► It was like 2016, something like that, Audio Hijack 3.

00:49:23 ◼   ► So it's been a while.

00:49:25 ◼   ► This is a paid update.

00:49:26 ◼   ► I don't know exactly what the paid upgrade price is,

00:49:28 ◼   ► but it's an update and it's big.

00:49:33 ◼   ► So there's some stuff that's just about the look and feel.

00:49:37 ◼   ► It looks a little different.

00:49:38 ◼   ► It's got a light mode to go with its dark mode

00:49:40 ◼   ► that it always had.

00:49:41 ◼   ► - It is $29 to upgrade, $64 to purchase out.

00:49:45 ◼   ► - It is my favorite audio utility on the Mac.

00:49:48 ◼   ► It has a new master session list

00:49:50 ◼   ► that's way better than the old one.

00:49:51 ◼   ► The old one was a bunch of squares.

00:49:53 ◼   ► The new one is a compact list that shows you

00:49:56 ◼   ► what is being captured for each item

00:49:59 ◼   ► and shows you the current status of each of those sessions.

00:50:02 ◼   ► And there's a button there to turn them on and off.

00:50:04 ◼   ► So you can like fire off different sessions

00:50:06 ◼   ► from right within that window.

00:50:07 ◼   ► It's a way better and more useful window.

00:50:10 ◼   ► And then there's also a corresponding menu bar item

00:50:13 ◼   ► that shows you all the same things.

00:50:16 ◼   ► And you can, and like most UI elements in Audio Hijack 4,

00:50:20 ◼   ► they're all popovers with a tear off.

00:50:22 ◼   ► So if you want the menu bar to be on screen all the time

00:50:27 ◼   ► as a floating window, you can basically tear it off

00:50:31 ◼   ► and have it just floating on your screen.

00:50:33 ◼   ► Yeah, and you can do that with any item.

00:50:35 ◼   ► Like if there's the live stream one, the broadcast block,

00:50:38 ◼   ► you wanna have that visible all the time,

00:50:40 ◼   ► you can just tear it off and have it visible all the time,

00:50:44 ◼   ► which is pretty great.

00:50:44 ◼   ► - I like the sound of that.

00:50:45 ◼   ► - Whole bunch of stuff like that.

00:50:46 ◼   ► - So say I haven't upgraded yet.

00:50:48 ◼   ► I would have had to upgrade today

00:50:49 ◼   ► and I didn't wanna do it before the show.

00:50:51 ◼   ► I mean, you really give the show its name if you did that,

00:50:54 ◼   ► but it's probably unsafe.

00:50:55 ◼   ► - That is, it seems like a bad upgrade.

00:50:57 ◼   ► - It seems you should test it first.

00:50:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I want to just make sure

00:51:00 ◼   ► I've got all my stuff set up properly.

00:51:02 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm going to tinker with things, right?

00:51:03 ◼   ► So I don't want to tinker with things

00:51:05 ◼   ► and then not set up my recording block

00:51:06 ◼   ► and then just don't record the show.

00:51:08 ◼   ► - That would be the bad upgrade.

00:51:09 ◼   ► - Bad upgrade, this is good upgrade.

00:51:10 ◼   ► - This is the good upgrade.

00:51:12 ◼   ► They have a couple of new plugins,

00:51:14 ◼   ► which if, you know, they have a compressor

00:51:16 ◼   ► and a magic boost, and these are things that like

00:51:17 ◼   ► to level out the audio,

00:51:19 ◼   ► especially if you're live streaming,

00:51:20 ◼   ► If you, you know, one person's louder

00:51:22 ◼   ► and one person's quieter and all that,

00:51:24 ◼   ► you try to level it out.

00:51:25 ◼   ► But one way you can do that is by using a plugin to do that.

00:51:28 ◼   ► And AudioHijack didn't offer that.

00:51:31 ◼   ► So you would have to get an external plugin,

00:51:32 ◼   ► a third party plugin to do compression and all that.

00:51:35 ◼   ► Now, AudioHijack has rolled those in.

00:51:36 ◼   ► So if you're doing a live stream,

00:51:38 ◼   ► you can put the compressor block before the broadcast block

00:51:41 ◼   ► and have it flatten everything out and it sounds better.

00:51:45 ◼   ► And then Magic Boost is like a compressor,

00:51:46 ◼   ► but it only makes it louder.

00:51:48 ◼   ► It makes quiet things loud.

00:51:49 ◼   ► It doesn't make a lot of things quiet.

00:51:51 ◼   ► So you choose how you want to use those,

00:51:53 ◼   ► but those are like having a compressor

00:51:55 ◼   ► and there's a big deal.

00:51:55 ◼   ► It was really a missing piece in version three.

00:51:58 ◼   ► And while you could add it using a third party plugin,

00:52:00 ◼   ► it's kind of nice that it's just part of the app.

00:52:03 ◼   ► - I use something called AU multiband compressor.

00:52:06 ◼   ► What is that?

00:52:07 ◼   ► - Yes, that is an Apple audio unit that comes with logic.

00:52:10 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:52:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, so it's a third party.

00:52:15 ◼   ► I mean, it's Apple, but it's like a non audio hijack

00:52:18 ◼   ► - Audio unit, yeah.

00:52:19 ◼   ► I've swapped in compressor for my third party plugin.

00:52:22 ◼   ► I think I was using Core Presser

00:52:23 ◼   ► and I'm just using the compressor.

00:52:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, we had a lot of trouble for a long time

00:52:28 ◼   ► where I was always quieter than everybody else

00:52:31 ◼   ► before Audio Hijack offered their live streaming.

00:52:33 ◼   ► We used to use NiceCast

00:52:35 ◼   ► and it was just really hard to do it.

00:52:37 ◼   ► And then when Audio Hijack did their thing,

00:52:40 ◼   ► I could use this compressor,

00:52:41 ◼   ► but I still have to tinker with things a little bit,

00:52:43 ◼   ► boost my audio and stuff like that.

00:52:45 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to trying that out.

00:52:48 ◼   ► And let's see, manual connection mode is another big one

00:52:51 ◼   ► that people requested.

00:52:52 ◼   ► And this is, so the interface AudioHijack has,

00:52:55 ◼   ► it's super clever.

00:52:57 ◼   ► Krista Murgen designed it for AudioHijack 3,

00:52:59 ◼   ► and it's super clever.

00:53:01 ◼   ► It's blocks, little blocks, and you arrange them,

00:53:04 ◼   ► and it kind of goes left to right,

00:53:06 ◼   ► and it's like a flow chart,

00:53:07 ◼   ► and you see the connections between the blocks.

00:53:08 ◼   ► And if you want them to connect differently,

00:53:10 ◼   ► you move the blocks around,

00:53:11 ◼   ► and you just watch as the connections get made,

00:53:13 ◼   ► which is great.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Except if you have very particular connections

00:53:18 ◼   ► you wanna make, sometimes you end up playing

00:53:19 ◼   ► this kind of unpleasant video game

00:53:22 ◼   ► where you have to move things around.

00:53:24 ◼   ► And like, if I move it down here, does that,

00:53:25 ◼   ► nope, that doesn't work.

00:53:26 ◼   ► If I move it over here, oh, I need to move all these things

00:53:28 ◼   ► to the left a little bit in order to get this thing

00:53:30 ◼   ► to the right so that it wires up correctly.

00:53:32 ◼   ► So it's a really great feature that I've used all this time,

00:53:36 ◼   ► but I also accept the fact that sometimes

00:53:38 ◼   ► it can get very complex where you have to move things around

00:53:42 ◼   ► in space, essentially, in order to get them to connect right.

00:53:45 ◼   ► and you're like, I just want these two things to connect.

00:53:48 ◼   ► Why don't they connect?

00:53:49 ◼   ► And the answer is now there is manual connection mode.

00:53:52 ◼   ► So when you go into manual connection mode,

00:53:53 ◼   ► you can literally like click on one block

00:53:56 ◼   ► and then click on another block

00:53:57 ◼   ► and it makes a connection between them.

00:53:59 ◼   ► - This was one of my biggest feature requests personally.

00:54:02 ◼   ► Like, yeah, 'cause now, 'cause I,

00:54:05 ◼   ► my audio hijack windows are a certain physical size

00:54:08 ◼   ► that they don't need to be.

00:54:10 ◼   ► They could be smaller.

00:54:10 ◼   ► Like I could actually make the window smaller,

00:54:12 ◼   ► but then I can't see all of the blocks.

00:54:14 ◼   ► So, but if now with the manual connections,

00:54:17 ◼   ► I can compress everything much physically smaller

00:54:21 ◼   ► because I don't need there to be so much space

00:54:23 ◼   ► between everything.

00:54:23 ◼   ► So they don't accidentally attach to each other.

00:54:26 ◼   ► - Right, exactly.

00:54:27 ◼   ► And you can also set it up in automatic mode

00:54:29 ◼   ► and then flip into manual connection mode

00:54:31 ◼   ► and edit it a little bit.

00:54:32 ◼   ► So you can like do, if you want to,

00:54:34 ◼   ► you can have it do the automatic work first

00:54:36 ◼   ► and then you can fix it and it's all fine.

00:54:39 ◼   ► And then when you flip back out of manual connection mode,

00:54:41 ◼   ► it rewires it.

00:54:42 ◼   ► So don't do that.

00:54:44 ◼   ► But you can keep it in manual connection mode forever

00:54:47 ◼   ► if you want to.

00:54:48 ◼   ► And that's part of it.

00:54:49 ◼   ► And for people who want more control, they can do that.

00:54:52 ◼   ► And then the big thing,

00:54:53 ◼   ► the reason that I got so excited about this

00:54:55 ◼   ► is that Audio Hijack 3 had literally no scripting

00:55:00 ◼   ► or automation support of any kind

00:55:02 ◼   ► to the point where I was desperately trying to automate

00:55:05 ◼   ► some of my podcast recording stuff.

00:55:06 ◼   ► And I was doing these things

00:55:08 ◼   ► where it's like a keyboard maestro macro

00:55:10 ◼   ► that opens Audio Hijack and looks at the window

00:55:13 ◼   ► and tries to detect what's in the window

00:55:15 ◼   ► and what's in the menu bar.

00:55:17 ◼   ► And based on that, is it recording or not?

00:55:19 ◼   ► And can I open by double clicking in the window,

00:55:23 ◼   ► I can open a session

00:55:24 ◼   ► and then I can press the recording button.

00:55:26 ◼   ► It was really bad 'cause it was all based on

00:55:28 ◼   ► looking at what was in the menus

00:55:30 ◼   ► or trying to look at literally the pixels on the screen.

00:55:34 ◼   ► It's not great.

00:55:35 ◼   ► I got it to work sort of, but it was not great.

00:55:37 ◼   ► And then part of the not greatness of it

00:55:39 ◼   ► was that it couldn't easily tell the current status.

00:55:42 ◼   ► Like, is this block actually recording or not?

00:55:45 ◼   ► 'Cause just pressing a button,

00:55:48 ◼   ► if it is recording and it presses the button,

00:55:50 ◼   ► it stops the recording

00:55:51 ◼   ► and it wouldn't easily know the status.

00:55:53 ◼   ► It got very complicated.

00:55:55 ◼   ► It was very painful.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Well, version four, they're scripting.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Is the version, is the story.

00:56:01 ◼   ► They're scripting.

00:56:01 ◼   ► They built a JavaScript control system.

00:56:05 ◼   ► There's a JavaScript API.

00:56:06 ◼   ► So, and there's even a scripts window inside audio hijack.

00:56:10 ◼   ► So you can do things like when you start a session,

00:56:12 ◼   ► run this script, or when you stop a session,

00:56:15 ◼   ► run this script.

00:56:15 ◼   ► And they've got some samples.

00:56:16 ◼   ► There's some very clever ones.

00:56:17 ◼   ► Like if you stop a session and there's a recording

00:56:21 ◼   ► that's like less than five seconds long,

00:56:22 ◼   ► throw it in the trash, which I really like,

00:56:25 ◼   ► 'cause sometimes I'm testing stuff

00:56:26 ◼   ► and I'll end up with all these little audio files

00:56:28 ◼   ► and you can actually just say, no, no, no,

00:56:30 ◼   ► just throw this away.

00:56:31 ◼   ► I don't need short recording files.

00:56:33 ◼   ► I only want the long ones.

00:56:36 ◼   ► So that's all in there,

00:56:37 ◼   ► but it's not just accessible from within the app,

00:56:40 ◼   ► it's accessible from outside.

00:56:41 ◼   ► And it turns out there are a couple of ways

00:56:43 ◼   ► it's accessible from the outside.

00:56:44 ◼   ► One of them is you can have a JavaScript script

00:56:47 ◼   ► in a text file and tell AudioHijack to open it

00:56:52 ◼   ► and it runs it.

00:56:53 ◼   ► And there's a preference by the way,

00:56:54 ◼   ► there's a security preference you have to turn on

00:56:56 ◼   ► for some of the, for external scripts to run.

00:56:58 ◼   ► So if you're concerned about that,

00:57:00 ◼   ► they made a checkbox that you have to check

00:57:02 ◼   ► in order to turn on this feature.

00:57:03 ◼   ► But that means that like anything like a shell script

00:57:06 ◼   ► or an Apple script or whatever could write out

00:57:08 ◼   ► a JavaScript command and then have it open.

00:57:11 ◼   ► And it's a little circuitous, but it totally works.

00:57:14 ◼   ► And then the other way, shortcuts.

00:57:15 ◼   ► So shortcuts on the Mac debuted right as they were,

00:57:18 ◼   ► I think, starting work on AudioHijack 4.

00:57:21 ◼   ► They knew it was coming.

00:57:22 ◼   ► They, I think, probably had been working

00:57:25 ◼   ► on their JavaScript stuff internally.

00:57:26 ◼   ► And I think JavaScript is probably the way to go.

00:57:28 ◼   ► I mean, a lot of apps these days,

00:57:32 ◼   ► That's the scripting, internal scripting language

00:57:35 ◼   ► that they're adopting.

00:57:36 ◼   ► It'll work on iOS, it'll work on macOS.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Omni uses it for all their scripting now.

00:57:41 ◼   ► I don't love JavaScript, but everybody knows it

00:57:44 ◼   ► and can get around in it and it's fine.

00:57:48 ◼   ► But they added shortcut support

00:57:50 ◼   ► and they have three shortcuts actions right now,

00:57:53 ◼   ► which is not enough, by the way, but it's a start.

00:57:56 ◼   ► And the shortcut actions are start or stop a session,

00:58:00 ◼   ► run a script that's in the script window in Audio Hijack,

00:58:05 ◼   ► or run this JavaScript,

00:58:07 ◼   ► where you can literally just put the JavaScript text

00:58:10 ◼   ► in the shortcut action and say, run this.

00:58:13 ◼   ► And from that, you can do almost anything

00:58:18 ◼   ► because you can turn sessions on and off.

00:58:21 ◼   ► You can turn blocks on and off.

00:58:22 ◼   ► You can get information back.

00:58:23 ◼   ► Is this session running?

00:58:25 ◼   ► What session is running?

00:58:26 ◼   ► You can ask it for information and get information back.

00:58:30 ◼   ► And then you can, once you've got the state information,

00:58:32 ◼   ► you've got a lot of power to do automation.

00:58:34 ◼   ► So that's all great.

00:58:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would say one can do anything, you know?

00:58:38 ◼   ► - Well, yes, not you personally.

00:58:40 ◼   ► And this is my complaint about it.

00:58:42 ◼   ► And I think this is the starting point.

00:58:44 ◼   ► And I think that Rogue Amoeba is going to

00:58:47 ◼   ► look at what people do with this

00:58:50 ◼   ► and figure out where they need to go from this.

00:58:52 ◼   ► But there are a lot of one, two, three line JavaScripts

00:58:57 ◼   ► that do things in that you can get information

00:59:01 ◼   ► out of shortcuts, right?

00:59:02 ◼   ► But you have to do them as these little JavaScripts.

00:59:06 ◼   ► And I think that's where they're missing a piece

00:59:09 ◼   ► that they need to add is they need to take a whole bunch

00:59:12 ◼   ► of common things that you might want to get out

00:59:14 ◼   ► of Audio Hijack and make them individual actions.

00:59:19 ◼   ► And even if all that's happening behind the scenes

00:59:22 ◼   ► is that you're firing off things

00:59:23 ◼   ► into the JavaScript interface, not everybody,

00:59:26 ◼   ► First off, not everybody is comfortable with JavaScript

00:59:29 ◼   ► and I'm not even comfortable with JavaScript.

00:59:32 ◼   ► So having them be a shortcut action that says,

00:59:35 ◼   ► tell me what's recording right now.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Like that's a three line JavaScript,

00:59:40 ◼   ► but like wouldn't it be nicer as a shortcuts user

00:59:44 ◼   ► if you didn't have to do that

00:59:46 ◼   ► in order to find out what was running.

00:59:48 ◼   ► And then you build on that,

00:59:50 ◼   ► you have other things that are common use cases

00:59:54 ◼   ► where they can build an action

00:59:55 ◼   ► and roll that action into shortcuts.

00:59:57 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure they're gonna get there,

00:59:59 ◼   ► but right now, other than turning things on and off,

01:00:03 ◼   ► you have to use the JavaScript action.

01:00:06 ◼   ► I'm gonna write, I wrote an article on six colors about this.

01:00:10 ◼   ► I'm gonna post at some point,

01:00:11 ◼   ► some basically like subroutines that you could use

01:00:16 ◼   ► that are things like, tell me what's recording right now.

01:00:21 ◼   ► 'Cause like, I think it's really useful.

01:00:23 ◼   ► that gives you back a list of what's recording right now,

01:00:26 ◼   ► but that should be built in.

01:00:28 ◼   ► They should add all of those.

01:00:30 ◼   ► And I'm hopeful that they'll do that in updates as they go.

01:00:33 ◼   ► But the good news about this is that

01:00:36 ◼   ► because they put that run a JavaScript into shortcuts,

01:00:40 ◼   ► if you're willing to get your hands dirty with JavaScript,

01:00:44 ◼   ► you can basically do almost anything you want with the app,

01:00:48 ◼   ► with a few exceptions.

01:00:49 ◼   ► There are some things that are not wired up yet

01:00:50 ◼   ► that I think they're also gonna add,

01:00:52 ◼   ► like Dan Warren and I were talking about how I'd really like to be able to use the automation

01:00:56 ◼   ► to look at my calendar, find out what podcast I'm currently on and update the contents of

01:01:02 ◼   ► the live stream to say the name of the podcast because it changes. And you can't change that

01:01:09 ◼   ► field in scripting right now. So we'll wait for that one.

01:01:12 ◼   ► - You could do that with shortcuts though. You could add in a shortcuts action to do

01:01:17 ◼   ► that. - No, but you can't tell using the JavaScript

01:01:21 ◼   ► API for audio hijack, you can't say change the name of the broadcast block to this. That

01:01:27 ◼   ► part is not accessible right now. So I can do the rest of it.

01:01:30 ◼   ► - Shortcut could read it, but it can't write that information out.

01:01:32 ◼   ► - Exactly. Yeah, that's my point is that that, and a lot of it's there. You can turn most

01:01:37 ◼   ► things on and off. You can flip switches and stuff. You can change the file names, which

01:01:42 ◼   ► is kind of cool, but you can't, like there are a few edge cases like the metadata and

01:01:46 ◼   ► the broadcast block that they didn't. I imagine that is an update feature that they'll add.

01:01:52 ◼   ► But yeah, the big one is the next step they need is to demystify the shortcuts experience

01:01:58 ◼   ► because there are a lot of people who are going to use shortcuts who are not comfortable

01:02:02 ◼   ► in JavaScript.

01:02:03 ◼   ► David Pembroke Me?

01:02:04 ◼   ► Tim Cynova Yeah.

01:02:05 ◼   ► David Pembroke Because there's some—the stuff I would want

01:02:06 ◼   ► to do I think would be pretty simple and I have faith the fact that they've put their

01:02:11 ◼   ► foot in this that this is just the first step of it and they'll add more because—

01:02:16 ◼   ► I figure they must've known, right?

01:02:18 ◼   ► That like, if they did this a little bit,

01:02:20 ◼   ► it was just going to get people like me and you

01:02:23 ◼   ► saying, "Please continue doing more."

01:02:25 ◼   ► Like, I think they're smart enough

01:02:26 ◼   ► for a rogue amoeba that they knew that,

01:02:28 ◼   ► but this is like, adding this in is the first step.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Like, I think it does make the most sense of like,

01:02:34 ◼   ► just see what people do with it and et cetera,

01:02:36 ◼   ► and then they can write their own.

01:02:39 ◼   ► - Right, I think that's gonna be the answer is that,

01:02:41 ◼   ► I think they decided rather than making assumptions,

01:02:43 ◼   ► and also they wanted to ship this thing, right?

01:02:44 ◼   ► So they did the catch all, which is run this JavaScript.

01:02:47 ◼   ► And it's, like I said, it's entirely functional.

01:02:49 ◼   ► You can do a one line, most of my shortcuts do this.

01:02:52 ◼   ► If they send a one line JavaScript to AudioHijack that says,

01:02:56 ◼   ► what's the status of this session?

01:02:59 ◼   ► It's basically, is this on or off?

01:03:01 ◼   ► Or I think it asks like, is it, you know,

01:03:04 ◼   ► I think it's, is it on or off?

01:03:06 ◼   ► And it say it's running or it stopped.

01:03:08 ◼   ► And then my script reacts to that.

01:03:10 ◼   ► It's like, oh, well, now I know what the current status is.

01:03:13 ◼   ► I will react differently based on that. You can also ask it like, is that block turned

01:03:17 ◼   ► on or off or whatever. You have that ability. I think in the long run, they're going to

01:03:22 ◼   ► hear from people like me and they're going to get this feedback of sort of like, how

01:03:26 ◼   ► are people actually automating with this? And because they created that JavaScript thing,

01:03:31 ◼   ► it's like kind of punting on the whole issue. It's like, well, you can do anything you want.

01:03:35 ◼   ► You just have to use JavaScript for now. And then over time, they'll realize, okay, these

01:03:39 ◼   ► are the ones that we're getting the most requests for. How do you do this? How do you do that?

01:03:43 ◼   ► and then hopefully they'll start building out

01:03:44 ◼   ► a little shortcuts library.

01:03:46 ◼   ► I expect most of the shortcuts actions will be things

01:03:50 ◼   ► that are fairly straightforward JavaScripts

01:03:53 ◼   ► that basically like, but I don't want to,

01:03:56 ◼   ► even as somebody who is using that interface,

01:03:58 ◼   ► I don't necessarily want every time I want to do a thing

01:04:01 ◼   ► in AudioHijack via shortcuts,

01:04:02 ◼   ► I have to go find my shortcut that has that script snippet

01:04:07 ◼   ► and copy it out and then go back to the other shortcut

01:04:09 ◼   ► and paste it in because I don't remember it

01:04:14 ◼   ► off the top of my head.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I have to get the terminology exactly right

01:04:17 ◼   ► when I would have preferred to just drag in

01:04:18 ◼   ► a shortcuts action that says, do this.

01:04:21 ◼   ► So we'll see, I think it will progress,

01:04:24 ◼   ► but it's a great start.

01:04:26 ◼   ► And it's led me to all sorts of wild stuff that I can do.

01:04:29 ◼   ► So like I have a generic podcast recording thing

01:04:32 ◼   ► that I use for most of my podcasts,

01:04:33 ◼   ► which is just this, it's called Podcast Lossless.

01:04:37 ◼   ► It records Zoom, it records my microphone,

01:04:39 ◼   ► it saves the files to the desktop.

01:04:41 ◼   ► And I built up a thing with shortcuts and keyboard maestro,

01:04:44 ◼   ► where I have a button on my stream deck,

01:04:46 ◼   ► and by default, when it's not recording,

01:04:49 ◼   ► it's actually the audio hijack logo,

01:04:53 ◼   ► which has got a black background.

01:04:54 ◼   ► And when I press it, it starts recording,

01:04:58 ◼   ► and it turns the button into like an orangey red

01:05:03 ◼   ► active state, like I'm recording now,

01:05:07 ◼   ► and I can look down and know that I'm recording.

01:05:09 ◼   ► And then when I press it again, it toggles it back off.

01:05:13 ◼   ► And that's a fairly simple automation, but it's great

01:05:17 ◼   ► because it's basically given me a one button record

01:05:19 ◼   ► and it knows the state.

01:05:21 ◼   ► So it is not gonna light that button up

01:05:23 ◼   ► unless it knows that it has just turned it on.

01:05:26 ◼   ► Whereas all my old stuff was like, press the button

01:05:30 ◼   ► and did you just turn it off?

01:05:33 ◼   ► Who knows?

01:05:34 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Now it knows.

01:05:36 ◼   ► And then I have some more complicated ones

01:05:37 ◼   ► that I detail in my Six Colors post

01:05:39 ◼   ► where I've got kind of a three-way switch

01:05:40 ◼   ► for the incomparable,

01:05:42 ◼   ► 'cause we have three states for that

01:05:43 ◼   ► where you go, you're not streaming live.

01:05:46 ◼   ► And then when we turn on the live stream,

01:05:48 ◼   ► we're not ready to start yet.

01:05:49 ◼   ► People who listen to ATP live have heard this too,

01:05:51 ◼   ► where it's like, we're playing like some music

01:05:53 ◼   ► in the background, you can't hear us.

01:05:55 ◼   ► We're just kind of warming up the live stream

01:05:57 ◼   ► while we get our act together.

01:05:59 ◼   ► And then you flip the switch and the music goes away

01:06:03 ◼   ► and you hear our voices and the recording start.

01:06:06 ◼   ► And that's all automated now.

01:06:08 ◼   ► It has been for a little while actually, while I'm in beta.

01:06:12 ◼   ► So I press the button and we go live with music.

01:06:14 ◼   ► I press the button again, same button,

01:06:16 ◼   ► and our voices appear and all the recordings start.

01:06:20 ◼   ► And then when I press that button a third time,

01:06:23 ◼   ► the live stream goes off, our recordings stop,

01:06:25 ◼   ► and we're done.

01:06:27 ◼   ► And the little button updates along the way too.

01:06:29 ◼   ► So lots of possibilities,

01:06:32 ◼   ► big and small for automation with Audio Hijack,

01:06:34 ◼   ► for podcasters or people who do live events

01:06:37 ◼   ► or pretty much anything else.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I mean- - You can record

01:06:41 ◼   ► like audio from video.

01:06:42 ◼   ► I do it all the time with Audio Hijack.

01:06:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, video conferencing.

01:06:46 ◼   ► If you need to record something or play something,

01:06:48 ◼   ► like there's so many different things you could do with this.

01:06:50 ◼   ► So yeah, it's great to see it.

01:06:52 ◼   ► This is a, I know it's not for everybody,

01:06:55 ◼   ► but for me and most of the people I know in the tech world,

01:07:00 ◼   ► We use Audio Hijack all the time, every day,

01:07:05 ◼   ► to do all sorts of complex and simple tasks.

01:07:08 ◼   ► And so having it be connected to shortcuts in any way

01:07:12 ◼   ► is a big deal.

01:07:13 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by our friends

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01:08:17 ◼   ► That is why Bombas donates one for every item that you buy.

01:08:20 ◼   ► I am a very happy Bombas customer.

01:08:23 ◼   ► My favourite products of theirs, I really love their no-show socks, they're like the

01:08:26 ◼   ► ankle socks. They're so comfortable. They come with padded areas especially on the heel

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01:08:52 ◼   ► to buy some more of them. I think I said this last time and I haven't done it yet but I

01:08:54 ◼   ► need to do I'm gonna leave this page open and go buy some after we're done with the

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01:09:18 ◼   ► Sucks!

01:09:19 ◼   ► Jason, I have some updates for you on reader apps, dating apps in the Netherlands.

01:09:26 ◼   ► Oh, my favorite things.

01:09:27 ◼   ► All of our favorite things.

01:09:29 ◼   ► I like reading.

01:09:31 ◼   ► I've been to the Netherlands.

01:09:33 ◼   ► That's all I got.

01:09:34 ◼   ► I guess you liked dating at one point, but that we're done with it.

01:09:37 ◼   ► No.

01:09:38 ◼   ► No?

01:09:39 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:40 ◼   ► Jason never liked dating.

01:09:41 ◼   ► Kind of like Apple.

01:09:42 ◼   ► And I think Apple likes dating.

01:09:43 ◼   ► No.

01:09:44 ◼   ► They don't want...

01:09:45 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:09:46 ◼   ► update to the rules surrounding the dating apps in the Netherlands.

01:09:50 ◼   ► So please stand for the reading of the rules.

01:09:53 ◼   ► You'd be standing a lot if you were with all of these rules, they keep changing them.

01:09:57 ◼   ► All right, so developers will now no longer be required to submit two separate binaries

01:10:03 ◼   ► to the App Store.

01:10:05 ◼   ► This is previously required that if you wanted to use external payment methods or link people

01:10:10 ◼   ► out, you would need to have a version that just used Apple's in-app purchase and then

01:10:15 ◼   ► the second version. Now you no longer need to do that. So to read from the developer

01:10:20 ◼   ► notes like the update, this change means that developers may include either entitlement

01:10:24 ◼   ► in their existing dating app, but still must limit it to use in the Netherlands storefront

01:10:29 ◼   ► and on devices running iOS or Apple OS. So that's good, right? That's a good start, right?

01:10:35 ◼   ► Because then otherwise you're going to some of these companies are probably even the next

01:10:38 ◼   ► five years have gotten themselves into a situation where they had 20 apps that they were updating

01:10:42 ◼   ► for every country that requires Apple to do this.

01:10:45 ◼   ► - This actually surprises me

01:10:47 ◼   ► because I thought this would be one of the ways

01:10:48 ◼   ► that Apple would just inflict pain on people

01:10:50 ◼   ► who wanted to go outside of their system.

01:10:52 ◼   ► But perhaps they felt that they were gonna get in trouble

01:10:54 ◼   ► for not being part of the spirit of the ruling.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - Jason, I think there's more going on here

01:10:59 ◼   ► that we might get to a little bit later on.

01:11:01 ◼   ► I don't think that this is,

01:11:02 ◼   ► I think this is for nothing other than Apple

01:11:04 ◼   ► have worked something out,

01:11:05 ◼   ► but we'll get to that maybe in a little bit.

01:11:08 ◼   ► They've also softened the language that appears

01:11:10 ◼   ► and the dialogue that users see before making a payment with an external provider. They've

01:11:16 ◼   ► also changed the requirements for how often it needs to be shown. So it previously stated

01:11:22 ◼   ► that this would be required before every transaction. So every time a transaction was going to be

01:11:27 ◼   ► required, even though you're going out and paying something new or paying for an in-app

01:11:31 ◼   ► purchase or whatever, they would show this sheet every single time. And I'll read the

01:11:34 ◼   ► language of it in a minute. But the new rules say each payment flow where the user would

01:11:40 ◼   ► make a purchase until the user taps the continue button on a per device basis.

01:11:44 ◼   ► Now the way I read that is you only see it once. Once you've seen it that one

01:11:50 ◼   ► time, the next time you want to make a purchase, you just make the purchase.

01:11:54 ◼   ► Apple don't show you this screen that makes you agree to the fact that you're

01:12:00 ◼   ► not going to be using their app payment stuff. I don't know, it's until the user

01:12:04 ◼   ► taps the continue button. Well I guess if you could press dismiss. Okay.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Because there you have two options to either continue or to not do it and my

01:12:12 ◼   ► reading of that is if you say I don't want to do it the next time you do it

01:12:16 ◼   ► you'll be shown it again. Oh yeah but once you tap continue on that device

01:12:19 ◼   ► you won't get shown it again on that device that makes sense that makes sense. So I

01:12:24 ◼   ► had to use the Wayback Machine to get this but the the dialogue used to say

01:12:29 ◼   ► this app does not support the app stores private and secure payment system all

01:12:35 ◼   ► All purchases in the app will be managed by the developer.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Your stored App Store payment method and related features

01:12:41 ◼   ► such as subscription management

01:12:42 ◼   ► and refund requests will not be available.

01:12:44 ◼   ► Only purchases through the App Store are secured by Apple.

01:12:47 ◼   ► - This is the, this app may kill you language

01:12:49 ◼   ► that we talked about a while ago.

01:12:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, we had some real problems with this.

01:12:51 ◼   ► I was very upset about this

01:12:53 ◼   ► because it's this kind of inherent,

01:12:56 ◼   ► like this like implied language

01:12:57 ◼   ► that the only secure payments are Apple's payments.

01:13:00 ◼   ► - Right.

01:13:01 ◼   ► - The modal now says,

01:13:02 ◼   ► This app doesn't support the App Store's payment system.

01:13:05 ◼   ► All purchases in this app will be managed by the developer.

01:13:09 ◼   ► You will no longer be transacting with Apple.

01:13:11 ◼   ► Your stored App Store payment method and related features,

01:13:14 ◼   ► such as subscription management and refund requests,

01:13:16 ◼   ► will not be available.

01:13:17 ◼   ► Apple is not responsible for the privacy or security

01:13:20 ◼   ► of transactions made with this developer.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Big thumb up from me.

01:13:24 ◼   ► - Much better.

01:13:25 ◼   ► - Way better.

01:13:26 ◼   ► - It's not this app will kill you.

01:13:28 ◼   ► It's like Apple has nothing to do

01:13:29 ◼   ► with what you're about to do.

01:13:30 ◼   ► Good luck.

01:13:31 ◼   ► - Also, by the way, refunds?

01:13:33 ◼   ► Apple, you don't do those.

01:13:35 ◼   ► That's not a thing, but it's funny to me that it's in there.

01:13:38 ◼   ► There are weird ways in some places.

01:13:41 ◼   ► - You can't request a refund from developers though.

01:13:43 ◼   ► You have to request it from Apple.

01:13:44 ◼   ► So they're saying this is a feature, right?

01:13:46 ◼   ► Which is like, look, when you subscribe with Apple,

01:13:49 ◼   ► you have a subscription management page

01:13:50 ◼   ► with all your subscriptions.

01:13:51 ◼   ► And when you ask for a refund for an app,

01:13:53 ◼   ► you do it through Apple.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Now you're gonna have to go to the developer to do it.

01:13:57 ◼   ► But it's this much better.

01:13:58 ◼   ► - You may actually have more luck at getting that refund,

01:14:01 ◼   ► which is a funny thing, 'cause Apple do not like it.

01:14:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is much, much better language.

01:14:04 ◼   ► - Way better, it's much more factual and clear, right?

01:14:07 ◼   ► And it's not suggesting like something wicked

01:14:10 ◼   ► with this way comes, right?

01:14:11 ◼   ► Like it's like it's not doing well.

01:14:13 ◼   ► - This app may not kill you.

01:14:14 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:14:17 ◼   ► Obviously there have been no changes to the 27% fee.

01:14:21 ◼   ► So Apple is gonna be enforcing on developers

01:14:24 ◼   ► and the items that use this.

01:14:26 ◼   ► There's no changes on how Apple requires reporting

01:14:29 ◼   ► or any changes to the audit rights

01:14:31 ◼   ► that Apple has on the developer,

01:14:33 ◼   ► all of that I still have a big problem with.

01:14:35 ◼   ► And to round out this part with the Netherlands,

01:14:39 ◼   ► currently Apple's fines for not complying with the ruling

01:14:42 ◼   ► given by the Dutch regulators have passed 50 million Euro

01:14:46 ◼   ► because they've been charging them 5 million a week.

01:14:49 ◼   ► As of recording, 'cause usually there's been,

01:14:52 ◼   ► like these fines get added every Monday,

01:14:55 ◼   ► it happens sometime on Monday or Tuesday.

01:14:58 ◼   ► they listen to upgrade and then they do it.

01:15:00 ◼   ► - And then they do it, like we remind them.

01:15:02 ◼   ► 'Cause it actually genuinely happens not too long

01:15:06 ◼   ► after we finish recording, which is a funny time

01:15:08 ◼   ► for the Netherlands really, 'cause it's, anyway,

01:15:10 ◼   ► like it's past the end of the work day.

01:15:13 ◼   ► But a couple of days ago, the regulator gave a comment

01:15:16 ◼   ► to TechCrunch saying that they will evaluate this proposal

01:15:19 ◼   ► from Apple to see if it meets their rules.

01:15:22 ◼   ► - Ooh.

01:15:23 ◼   ► - I actually am not even sure if a lot of this is

01:15:26 ◼   ► to meet the rules. But again, we'll get to that in a bit because there's also, Apple's

01:15:31 ◼   ► very busy, they have finally released the guidance around the external linking for reader

01:15:37 ◼   ► apps that was agreed as part of a deal with the Japan Fair Trade Commission back in September

01:15:42 ◼   ► 2021. I cannot believe it was that long ago, six months ago. So this is all intended to

01:15:49 ◼   ► be just for managing or creating accounts, right, with reader apps. So these are your

01:15:55 ◼   ► Kindles, your Netflixes, that kind of thing.

01:15:59 ◼   ► Some of the stuff that they showed, of course, there was a modal dialogue when you click

01:16:02 ◼   ► one of these links, which says you're about to leave the app and go to an external website.

01:16:07 ◼   ► You will no longer be transacting with Apple.

01:16:09 ◼   ► And then it's basically the same stuff as before about subscription management, refund

01:16:13 ◼   ► requests, et cetera, et cetera.

01:16:16 ◼   ► I got some helpful -- luckily, The Verge went through a lot of this stuff and I was able

01:16:23 ◼   ► to crib from them.

01:16:24 ◼   ► thank you to Mitchell Clark at The Verge,

01:16:25 ◼   ► Apple have a list of requirements

01:16:27 ◼   ► that apply to the link itself that they give,

01:16:30 ◼   ► that someone will click.

01:16:31 ◼   ► The link must open in a browser,

01:16:33 ◼   ► it cannot open in an in-app web view.

01:16:36 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:16:37 ◼   ► - There is no additional data or parameters,

01:16:40 ◼   ► like tracking stuff that can be passed to the website,

01:16:43 ◼   ► and your app cannot contain text

01:16:45 ◼   ► explaining how much things on your website will cost,

01:16:48 ◼   ► which I guess means you can charge whatever you want, right?

01:16:52 ◼   ► So it can be cheaper on the website,

01:16:54 ◼   ► but you just can't say it.

01:16:56 ◼   ► - You can't say it.

01:16:57 ◼   ► I think this is, so initial thought for me was,

01:17:01 ◼   ► wait a second, one link seems like a waste

01:17:06 ◼   ► and no additional data or parameters seems like a waste.

01:17:10 ◼   ► But here's the thing, the way this will functionally work

01:17:14 ◼   ► is that it will go to a page that is the page

01:17:17 ◼   ► that you go to when you come from the app.

01:17:20 ◼   ► The first thing it's gonna do is have you log in

01:17:23 ◼   ► and then it's gonna display whatever is relevant.

01:17:27 ◼   ► - But you can also create, this wouldn't just be login.

01:17:29 ◼   ► - Or create, logging in or creating.

01:17:31 ◼   ► The point is, what you're going to do

01:17:34 ◼   ► is end up in a state, at least potentially,

01:17:38 ◼   ► where Safari on your device is logged in on that page.

01:17:43 ◼   ► So this is less onerous, I think,

01:17:49 ◼   ► than I originally thought,

01:17:51 ◼   ► because the smart services will,

01:17:56 ◼   ► once you're logged into that page,

01:17:57 ◼   ► you can display whatever you anticipate

01:17:59 ◼   ► people coming from the app will see.

01:18:01 ◼   ► So in the end, you're probably gonna get a tap here,

01:18:05 ◼   ► like I'm in the Kindle app and I'm logged in

01:18:07 ◼   ► and I tap here and it'll display my purchases

01:18:10 ◼   ► or it'll display things I wanna buy.

01:18:14 ◼   ► What it doesn't get you is I'm looking at a particular book

01:18:17 ◼   ► and I want to buy it and then I tap

01:18:20 ◼   ► and I go to that book page on Amazon

01:18:21 ◼   ► because that's not allowed.

01:18:22 ◼   ► But you can tap and go and get your account page

01:18:27 ◼   ► and go from there.

01:18:29 ◼   ► So it's not terrible because it's not like it's opening,

01:18:34 ◼   ► not knowing anything of who you are

01:18:35 ◼   ► to the homepage of the website,

01:18:37 ◼   ► but it's also not allowing the passing of data

01:18:40 ◼   ► for things like, so you want to buy this book,

01:18:44 ◼   ► tap here to go to Amazon's page for this book

01:18:47 ◼   ► where you can buy it.

01:18:48 ◼   ► It's not, that part is not allowed.

01:18:50 ◼   ► - Well, here's the thing.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Remember that one link thing?

01:18:53 ◼   ► Like as you mentioned the one link.

01:18:55 ◼   ► There is no reference to one link

01:18:58 ◼   ► in this entire documentation from Apple.

01:19:01 ◼   ► Now, I think there's a reason for this.

01:19:05 ◼   ► They actually explicitly say you can provide multiple links

01:19:09 ◼   ► for different use cases or languages.

01:19:11 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:19:12 ◼   ► - I think what they are, we're trying to get across

01:19:16 ◼   ► And what they're still trying to get across is,

01:19:19 ◼   ► is that there's only really the use cases

01:19:21 ◼   ► that they are permitting,

01:19:22 ◼   ► which is create a new account, manage that account.

01:19:26 ◼   ► And you have to provide every link to them to review.

01:19:30 ◼   ► And it has to meet, like in every place you're putting it,

01:19:35 ◼   ► and they will also review where it's going to.

01:19:38 ◼   ► And then Apple have, they haven't,

01:19:40 ◼   ► again, they don't really seem to have stated

01:19:43 ◼   ► too much about what's required on the web pages,

01:19:45 ◼   ► but I'm sure that's like a,

01:19:46 ◼   ► we'll have that conversation with you, you know?

01:19:48 ◼   ► Like I imagine there'll be a bit of two and throw.

01:19:52 ◼   ► 'Cause there's not gonna be a lot of companies

01:19:53 ◼   ► that will be able to take advantage of this, right?

01:19:57 ◼   ► It really is gonna be mostly the companies you would expect.

01:20:01 ◼   ► There aren't gonna be a lot of small companies, I think,

01:20:03 ◼   ► that are gonna be able to really use this

01:20:05 ◼   ► to any great effect.

01:20:06 ◼   ► - No, there aren't a lot of small companies

01:20:08 ◼   ► making reader apps, to be clear.

01:20:09 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:20:10 ◼   ► But the original announcement stated one link.

01:20:14 ◼   ► the phrase one link is not mentioned anywhere

01:20:17 ◼   ► in this documentation.

01:20:18 ◼   ► - Obviously they got feedback that there are lots of,

01:20:21 ◼   ► but what about this, but what about this?

01:20:22 ◼   ► We've got two different kinds of things that happen

01:20:24 ◼   ► and we have different languages and we can't pass data,

01:20:27 ◼   ► so how do we do that?

01:20:28 ◼   ► And so Apple seems to have said,

01:20:30 ◼   ► well, you can support multiple links

01:20:32 ◼   ► as long as there are four different use cases

01:20:35 ◼   ► or languages, as you said,

01:20:37 ◼   ► and then we have to approve them.

01:20:39 ◼   ► What it doesn't mean is, again, I can't tap on a book

01:20:43 ◼   ► can go to that book's page on Amazon,

01:20:44 ◼   ► because that is, they're not gonna approve a link

01:20:47 ◼   ► for every single book.

01:20:49 ◼   ► And really what they're saying there is

01:20:51 ◼   ► that is passing data or parameters.

01:20:55 ◼   ► And that's not allowed.

01:20:56 ◼   ► It has to be a generic request.

01:20:58 ◼   ► It can be a generic request for,

01:21:00 ◼   ► this is for my account options,

01:21:01 ◼   ► or this is my sign-in,

01:21:03 ◼   ► or this is I have a problem,

01:21:05 ◼   ► or whatever the use cases are,

01:21:07 ◼   ► but not for like individual transaction items.

01:21:11 ◼   ► They're not gonna let you do that.

01:21:12 ◼   ► which is what, you know, that's what Amazon would prefer, right, is the Kindle app could

01:21:16 ◼   ► show you, you could search for books in the Kindle app and find a book you want and tap

01:21:21 ◼   ► and it would open Safari to that page with a big fat Buy Now button and you can't do

01:21:26 ◼   ► that in this scenario.

01:21:28 ◼   ► So remember at the moment both the Dutch dating app thing and the reader app thing, the reader

01:21:35 ◼   ► app thing is worldwide even though it was just a decision with the Japan Fair Trade

01:21:38 ◼   ► Commission they applied it worldwide. I'm actually not sure why. I guess this is just

01:21:42 ◼   ► to appease the large companies that they're dealing with here and for whatever reason

01:21:47 ◼   ► Apple doesn't care about Match.com. It's just like you would just do this in the Netherlands

01:21:52 ◼   ► nowhere else. Remember this is an entitlement that they have to apply for and then you get

01:21:57 ◼   ► to do certain things and entitlements is a little bit above my pay grade but it's like

01:22:01 ◼   ► you are granted the ability to put something in your application that ties into a private

01:22:07 ◼   ► API that other people are not allowed to use.

01:22:10 ◼   ► This is the same with CarPlay, this is how CarPlay works.

01:22:12 ◼   ► But there was a note in the documentation that says, "Apple is developing a new external

01:22:17 ◼   ► link account API that will provide the in-app modal sheet.

01:22:21 ◼   ► Once this new API becomes available in a public release of iOS and iPadOS, you will have 30

01:22:26 ◼   ► days to adopt it with the next update of your app.

01:22:29 ◼   ► In the meantime, you will need to build this modal sheet by following exactly the design

01:22:32 ◼   ► specifications provided below."

01:22:34 ◼   ► - So I have a couple of questions about this.

01:22:37 ◼   ► Why are they not just waiting until this is available?

01:22:41 ◼   ► Right, because we've already waited six months.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Like what, you know, why not?

01:22:45 ◼   ► Why are we doing this like impromptu,

01:22:48 ◼   ► sorry, just like intermediate step?

01:22:51 ◼   ► - Fines, fines I think is the answer, right?

01:22:54 ◼   ► - Well, but this is separate to the Dutch things.

01:22:56 ◼   ► - To the Dutch dating, but I think this is

01:22:58 ◼   ► so that Apple can say, look, you can do it now.

01:23:01 ◼   ► We're not holding anyone back.

01:23:03 ◼   ► It is Apple demonstrating something

01:23:05 ◼   ► that they have not demonstrated up to now in some ways,

01:23:08 ◼   ► which is them saying, look, okay,

01:23:10 ◼   ► but it's gonna take time, we have to do a whole thing,

01:23:11 ◼   ► we have to build an API.

01:23:13 ◼   ► And now what they're saying is, look, we're building an API,

01:23:16 ◼   ► but don't say we're dragging our feet.

01:23:19 ◼   ► If you wanna replicate what our guidelines today, go ahead.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Replicate our guidelines today without the API,

01:23:26 ◼   ► and you could do it and we'll let you do it.

01:23:28 ◼   ► But we're also gonna work on a thing

01:23:30 ◼   ► that's a lot easier to implement.

01:23:32 ◼   ► but if you wanna replicate it in the meantime, go ahead.

01:23:34 ◼   ► We're not standing in your way.

01:23:36 ◼   ► And I think that that is a posturing thing,

01:23:38 ◼   ► not necessarily about Dutch dating apps,

01:23:39 ◼   ► but it is a posturing thing to regulators to say,

01:23:42 ◼   ► we're not dragging our feet here.

01:23:45 ◼   ► You can do this today,

01:23:47 ◼   ► but you're gonna have to do the work.

01:23:50 ◼   ► We're doing the work for you, that's not ready yet.

01:23:53 ◼   ► You can do this today.

01:23:55 ◼   ► And I think that's clever in some ways

01:23:58 ◼   ► 'cause it's Apple basically saying, don't blame us.

01:24:02 ◼   ► And also Apple knowing it's unlikely that the spirit of,

01:24:08 ◼   ► I don't know about the spirit.

01:24:12 ◼   ► When a judge says, like in the Dutch dating case,

01:24:16 ◼   ► do this Apple, what they're saying is Apple be permissive.

01:24:20 ◼   ► And what they're not saying is Apple,

01:24:23 ◼   ► you will immediately furnish the thing you like to furnish,

01:24:28 ◼   ► which is a bunch of developer APIs.

01:24:31 ◼   ► That's not what they're saying.

01:24:32 ◼   ► They're saying be permissive.

01:24:34 ◼   ► And this is Apple saying, we are permissive now.

01:24:36 ◼   ► You can do this, here are the rules, done.

01:24:39 ◼   ► We worked on, all that we really need to do

01:24:41 ◼   ► is give you the rule book.

01:24:42 ◼   ► We also are gonna do an API for developers

01:24:45 ◼   ► that's gonna be good, but we're not standing in your way.

01:24:48 ◼   ► And I think that that's,

01:24:49 ◼   ► I think they're sending a message, right?

01:24:51 ◼   ► Which is, you know, we're, anyone who wants to do this now,

01:24:55 ◼   ► we are gonna let you do it now.

01:24:56 ◼   ► We're not gonna let our implementation of the API

01:25:00 ◼   ► be the gating factor.

01:25:02 ◼   ► And so don't blame us and say, we're dragging our feet,

01:25:06 ◼   ► even though they were dragging their feet.

01:25:08 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:25:09 ◼   ► - So it gets them out of the way of that.

01:25:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I, you know.

01:25:13 ◼   ► - And they're saying within 30 days

01:25:15 ◼   ► after we release the API,

01:25:16 ◼   ► you gotta rip out all the work you did

01:25:18 ◼   ► and then use our API anyway.

01:25:19 ◼   ► But in the meantime, you can do this.

01:25:21 ◼   ► But like that feels very much like a message to the courts,

01:25:25 ◼   ► which is, we heard you, you don't like us waiting

01:25:28 ◼   ► for the API.

01:25:29 ◼   ► - This is so funny to me, right?

01:25:30 ◼   ► Where it's like, they came up to this deal six months ago,

01:25:33 ◼   ► and now they've released the entitlement ability,

01:25:36 ◼   ► but as soon as they come up with this API,

01:25:37 ◼   ► they will require everyone to do it within 30 days.

01:25:40 ◼   ► - Yes, rip it right out.

01:25:41 ◼   ► - And I just find that so funny, right?

01:25:43 ◼   ► Like, we'll take as long as we want, but.

01:25:45 ◼   ► - But again, it's the letter in the spirit, right?

01:25:48 ◼   ► It's them saying, oh, we're not standing in your way.

01:25:51 ◼   ► If you do a bunch of extra work,

01:25:53 ◼   ► and then rip it out later, you can do it right now.

01:25:55 ◼   ► But I think that is, you know,

01:25:58 ◼   ► I think that a lot of courts might look at that,

01:26:01 ◼   ► or regulators and look at that and say, okay, fair enough.

01:26:04 ◼   ► Like, because the argument here is like,

01:26:06 ◼   ► should Apple have to furnish Amazon

01:26:10 ◼   ► with all the code to do this?

01:26:13 ◼   ► Like, if Apple didn't wanna ever do an API for this

01:26:15 ◼   ► and posted the guidelines,

01:26:17 ◼   ► would that be contrary to the spirit

01:26:19 ◼   ► of what's being asked for here?

01:26:20 ◼   ► I would say it wouldn't be.

01:26:22 ◼   ► It's not, Apple doing an API for it

01:26:24 ◼   ► is really not part of the regulation.

01:26:26 ◼   ► The regulators aren't saying you must provide an API.

01:26:29 ◼   ► They're saying you must allow people to do this.

01:26:32 ◼   ► And so Apple is splitting the difference a little bit,

01:26:35 ◼   ► but it is saying, look,

01:26:36 ◼   ► we're not standing in the way of doing it now.

01:26:37 ◼   ► Here are our rules, we will agree to this,

01:26:40 ◼   ► but we will do an API because that's the best way forward.

01:26:44 ◼   ► And that will ultimately allow Apple to completely control it

01:26:47 ◼   ► and not have to patrol what these, you know,

01:26:50 ◼   ► API mirroring things are in the meantime,

01:26:55 ◼   ► but it's just, I think it's a fascinating,

01:26:58 ◼   ► a little bit of strategy where it sort of is removing

01:27:00 ◼   ► the waiting time for the API from the equation

01:27:03 ◼   ► in terms of an impatient government or judge

01:27:07 ◼   ► looking at Apple saying, come on now, like, come on,

01:27:09 ◼   ► you're just, you know, you're just delaying here.

01:27:12 ◼   ► You're just stalling.

01:27:13 ◼   ► They're like, no, no, no, people who wanna do it now

01:27:15 ◼   ► can put in the work and do it now.

01:27:16 ◼   ► We'll be here later.

01:27:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, when I read this, I was like,

01:27:19 ◼   ► I wonder if this is part of a few things, you know,

01:27:23 ◼   ► like to different APIs for new systems here.

01:27:28 ◼   ► - I like this approach.

01:27:33 ◼   ► I mean, within the context of Apple's dealing

01:27:36 ◼   ► with these regulations, I like to see Apple doing this

01:27:39 ◼   ► because I do think it's a smart move for them to say,

01:27:42 ◼   ► 'cause okay, first off,

01:27:43 ◼   ► Apple wants to build an API for everything

01:27:46 ◼   ► and they wanna have a whole system

01:27:47 ◼   ► and they wanna have it be measured and careful

01:27:49 ◼   ► and consider it and put it out for developers and say,

01:27:52 ◼   ► "Here's the right way to do things."

01:27:54 ◼   ► And it turns out the courts just want Apple to move.

01:27:57 ◼   ► So how do you reconcile those two things?

01:28:02 ◼   ► This is the answer,

01:28:03 ◼   ► which is Apple can do rule book real fast,

01:28:06 ◼   ► not like not fast in real world terms, but in Apple terms,

01:28:09 ◼   ► they can come up with a rule book a lot faster

01:28:12 ◼   ► than they can roll out an API

01:28:13 ◼   ► and a shipping version of the OS.

01:28:16 ◼   ► So this is their way of dealing with that,

01:28:19 ◼   ► is build it today if you want, we'll have an API later.

01:28:24 ◼   ► When we do the API, you gotta adopt it, we're done.

01:28:26 ◼   ► - But overall, I would say the language

01:28:29 ◼   ► that they've landed on, vastly better

01:28:33 ◼   ► than where they were before.

01:28:34 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, they're not,

01:28:36 ◼   ► and again, I wonder, like you were saying,

01:28:38 ◼   ► I wonder what happened behind the scenes here, right?

01:28:41 ◼   ► I wonder if somebody somewhere on the outside,

01:28:44 ◼   ► I doubt it was on the inside.

01:28:46 ◼   ► On the outside, it was like,

01:28:47 ◼   ► you gotta stop with the scare language.

01:28:50 ◼   ► That's, we're not happy with you trying to dissuade users.

01:28:55 ◼   ► It needs to be neutral language.

01:28:57 ◼   ► Somebody somewhere said that.

01:28:58 ◼   ► - I assume they just got a lot of pushback, you know,

01:29:00 ◼   ► like from people in the media, like me and you,

01:29:03 ◼   ► and many other outlets, and also the developers

01:29:06 ◼   ► that they're writing this stuff for.

01:29:08 ◼   ► It's just like, this is too much.

01:29:09 ◼   ► You've gone too hard, like way too hard.

01:29:11 ◼   ► You gotta pull it back a little bit, you know?

01:29:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, well maybe, but my guess is that maybe-

01:29:15 ◼   ► - Just dripping with spite, you know?

01:29:17 ◼   ► - Maybe there's somebody in one of these areas

01:29:21 ◼   ► where Apple is negotiating with them about like,

01:29:23 ◼   ► is this enough, is this enough, said,

01:29:26 ◼   ► we want neutral language.

01:29:28 ◼   ► This is not neutral.

01:29:29 ◼   ► And maybe they paste it in a bunch of links

01:29:31 ◼   ► to like the Verge and other articles saying,

01:29:34 ◼   ► see, everybody agrees, you're really,

01:29:36 ◼   ► this is, you're trying to scare people.

01:29:38 ◼   ► And that's not what we are asking for.

01:29:40 ◼   ► We are asking for you to have neutral language.

01:29:43 ◼   ► can state the facts about your subscription thing and your refunds. You can state the

01:29:47 ◼   ► facts, but to imply everything but you is dangerous is not neutral. So I just, I mean,

01:29:57 ◼   ► maybe I'm being cynical here and they decided themselves that this was better language,

01:30:00 ◼   ► but I don't think so. I think they got, I suspect that somebody told them, you can't

01:30:05 ◼   ► do this. You must be more neutral than this, but the net result is the same, which is the

01:30:10 ◼   ► language is better. They're not telling you the app is going to kill you. They're just

01:30:12 ◼   ► saying you're leaving Apple.

01:30:14 ◼   ► And that's what it should be.

01:30:16 ◼   ► And again, I applaud the idea that they're gonna make

01:30:18 ◼   ► the behavior available faster

01:30:22 ◼   ► and not make everybody wait for the API.

01:30:25 ◼   ► Because if I was a judge on one of these cases

01:30:28 ◼   ► and Apple said, well, okay,

01:30:30 ◼   ► we'll put it in our internal process.

01:30:32 ◼   ► And in September it'll be available for people.

01:30:35 ◼   ► I would be like, nuh-uh, I told you now,

01:30:39 ◼   ► and I'm willing to be reasonable here,

01:30:40 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna give you six, nine months, a year

01:30:44 ◼   ► to drag your feet on this.

01:30:46 ◼   ► And so their new policy here seems to be

01:30:49 ◼   ► better in that regard too.

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01:32:48 ◼   ► Let's finish out today's episode with some #AskUpgradeQuestions.

01:32:54 ◼   ► Got a couple of studio display related questions just thought would be a nice bookend for today's

01:32:59 ◼   ► episode.

01:33:00 ◼   ► asked this one to me, Jason, it says, "Myke, given your recent escapades of Apple support

01:33:05 ◼   ► with your screen technology technicalities of AppleCare Plus," this is my very scratched

01:33:11 ◼   ► and I believe cracked iPhone, which Apple said is not cracked and they won't replace

01:33:15 ◼   ► it even though I want to pay them with my AppleCare Plus. They said, "Did you spend

01:33:20 ◼   ► the extra on AppleCare Plus for your studio display?" And I will say, "No, Sekou, I didn't

01:33:24 ◼   ► because I have pledged to myself that I'm never getting AppleCare again."

01:33:27 ◼   ► - Interesting.

01:33:28 ◼   ► - Not gonna do it anymore.

01:33:30 ◼   ► - I never, Myke, you know, I never buy AppleCare.

01:33:33 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:33:34 ◼   ► - I bought it on the studio display.

01:33:35 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

01:33:37 ◼   ► - I decided that if there was ever an Apple purchase

01:33:39 ◼   ► where I was like, I don't know,

01:33:41 ◼   ► I kind of want them to have a lot of time there.

01:33:45 ◼   ► I've changed, I used to decline on everything,

01:33:47 ◼   ► extended warranties and all of that.

01:33:49 ◼   ► And I found that I'm now targeting certain technologies

01:33:54 ◼   ► and product types where I'm like,

01:33:56 ◼   ► I kind of don't trust this product.

01:33:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna put a little more in and I never do it,

01:34:03 ◼   ► but I did it for the studio this morning.

01:34:06 ◼   ► - I've just decided I'm done with it.

01:34:07 ◼   ► I've never used AppleCare and I've got it on every iPhone

01:34:10 ◼   ► for years and years and years and on all my devices.

01:34:13 ◼   ► And the one time I wanted to get a replacement

01:34:16 ◼   ► for my very scratch screen, they told me it's not counted,

01:34:19 ◼   ► even though I think it should be.

01:34:21 ◼   ► So I'm done, I'm done.

01:34:22 ◼   ► I'm done with it and I'm not gonna get it anymore.

01:34:25 ◼   ► and I'm just going to save the money

01:34:27 ◼   ► instead of paying for their Apple Care,

01:34:29 ◼   ► and I'll just deal with it myself

01:34:32 ◼   ► with getting the repairs done because I'm fed up with it.

01:34:35 ◼   ► -I also had that spider that one time,

01:34:36 ◼   ► and so I'm really kind of concerned about my displays now.

01:34:39 ◼   ► I'd like this display to last a long time.

01:34:41 ◼   ► Of course, the Apple Care+ doesn't last a long time,

01:34:43 ◼   ► but I did do it for that.

01:34:45 ◼   ► I also bought an extended warranty

01:34:48 ◼   ► in another product this week,

01:34:50 ◼   ► but I'll talk about that at another time.

01:34:52 ◼   ► Maybe it'll be an upgrade plus segment.

01:34:54 ◼   ► I don't know. - Ooh, interesting.

01:34:56 ◼   ► Myke asks, "I never worried about a monitor

01:34:59 ◼   ► becoming obsolete before its end of life.

01:35:01 ◼   ► With the studio display having an A13 chip,

01:35:04 ◼   ► do you think that could be a valid concern?"

01:35:07 ◼   ► - I don't. - Okay.

01:35:08 ◼   ► - It's just, in the end, it is designed to be a dumb display.

01:35:13 ◼   ► I know it's smart, but it's actually designed to be dumb

01:35:15 ◼   ► and transparent, and so I don't think it's gonna be an issue.

01:35:17 ◼   ► I think you'll be able to plug...

01:35:22 ◼   ► I mean, will software updates stop coming for it?

01:35:24 ◼   ► Sure, but like a dumb display doesn't get updated either.

01:35:29 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Right?

01:35:30 ◼   ► It either works or it doesn't.

01:35:31 ◼   ► - There'll be some features eventually

01:35:33 ◼   ► that you won't be able to use,

01:35:35 ◼   ► but that you just won't do those, use those features.

01:35:37 ◼   ► Like there'll be new features, like any product, right?

01:35:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I think it's not gonna be a big deal.

01:35:42 ◼   ► I think you'll be able to use this for a long time

01:35:44 ◼   ► and it will be fine.

01:35:46 ◼   ► I think people will be using these displays.

01:35:46 ◼   ► - It is a good question though, right?

01:35:48 ◼   ► 'Cause it is different to imagine

01:35:49 ◼   ► like a computer inside the monitor.

01:35:52 ◼   ► Like that is a different, is a very different thing.

01:35:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just, I mean, the difference though

01:35:57 ◼   ► is that in the end it's all, what's really happening

01:36:00 ◼   ► is it's meant to be opaque and it's not like,

01:36:03 ◼   ► oh boy, we're gonna update the software to,

01:36:05 ◼   ► and as people have pointed out,

01:36:06 ◼   ► Apple has had firmware updates for its monitors before.

01:36:10 ◼   ► Eventually the display reaches the end of its updating life,