Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 410. Today's episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph,

00:00:15 ◼   ► Bombus, Membrful and Doppler. My name is Myke Hurley and I have the absolute pleasure of

00:00:20 ◼   ► being joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason! Hi Myke Hurley, we're so close to one another

00:00:25 ◼   ► right now. But yet so far. But yet so far. We need to talk about something in case you

00:00:30 ◼   ► haven't seen on Twitter. I am in San Jose as promised but after I arrived I tested positive

00:00:37 ◼   ► with Covid so I have spent the last couple of days in my hotel room. I've had to pull

00:00:44 ◼   ► out of all of the events at Apple Park. I'm very very upset about this. I was fine. I

00:00:51 ◼   ► did negative multiple times before I left and when I arrived a couple of hours later

00:00:55 ◼   ► I did a test. It was positive. I did multiple tests over like a 24-hour period and yeah,

00:01:02 ◼   ► I have coronavirus and I feel pretty bad, Jason, I'm not gonna lie, in multiple ways

00:01:07 ◼   ► emotionally and physically.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Yeah, oh good. It's good that you got those to sync up like.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna do it, do both of them.

00:01:12 ◼   ► I guess you were feeling it and I expected you to say like, "Oh, I'm fine. I'm just really

00:01:17 ◼   ► sad." And you're like, "No, I feel terrible."

00:01:18 ◼   ► Oh, I feel terrible, yeah.

00:01:20 ◼   ► - Great, fantastic.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Well, but anyway, you're in San Jose

00:01:24 ◼   ► and I'm in Cupertino at Apple Park

00:01:26 ◼   ► at the new developer center

00:01:28 ◼   ► where they have set up an amazing little podcast studio

00:01:31 ◼   ► that has been home and is home to many podcasts here.

00:01:34 ◼   ► So thanks to Zach Kahn and all the other people in Apple

00:01:38 ◼   ► for getting this to happen for us.

00:01:41 ◼   ► And I'm sorry you're not here.

00:01:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, everyone's been really amazing

00:01:43 ◼   ► and super nice to me, which I greatly appreciate.

00:01:47 ◼   ► and hopefully next time, maybe next time,

00:01:51 ◼   ► you know, I'll just keep saying this forever,

00:01:52 ◼   ► like maybe next time. - Maybe next time, sure.

00:01:55 ◼   ► - Kind of like the draft, Jason, maybe next time,

00:01:57 ◼   ► you know what I'm saying?

00:01:58 ◼   ► Maybe next time.

00:02:00 ◼   ► - You know, I did not score the draft during the event,

00:02:04 ◼   ► which I sometimes have done at home,

00:02:05 ◼   ► but I did not do this time.

00:02:07 ◼   ► And then at the very end, I had no idea how it would turn out

00:02:10 ◼   ► and even as I was clicking, 'cause we got a lot wrong,

00:02:13 ◼   ► I wasn't keeping score or paying attention

00:02:15 ◼   ► and I got to the bottom and I said, wait a second,

00:02:18 ◼   ► I won eight to seven.

00:02:19 ◼   ► How is that possible?

00:02:21 ◼   ► But I seem to have won.

00:02:22 ◼   ► - I scored it nine to eight, but yeah.

00:02:25 ◼   ► - Interesting.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Well, let's go through it real quick, if you don't mind.

00:02:28 ◼   ► - I would love to.

00:02:29 ◼   ► - Okay, so iOS and iPad.

00:02:32 ◼   ► Well, that's the quick part is what you love.

00:02:35 ◼   ► Apps can run, I picked in this category,

00:02:37 ◼   ► iOS and iPad OS picks.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Apps can run on an external display on iPad OS.

00:02:41 ◼   ► You got a lot to say about that, but that's yes.

00:02:44 ◼   ► More user controllable design and theming, that's a yes.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Widgets or widget-like features on the lock screen,

00:02:51 ◼   ► that's a yes.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Global keyboard shortcuts for shortcuts on iPad,

00:02:55 ◼   ► that's a no. - No, thank you.

00:02:57 ◼   ► - New car key partners named,

00:02:58 ◼   ► oh, if I had said car play partners,

00:03:00 ◼   ► all those car company logos that were up there,

00:03:03 ◼   ► but not for car key. - Oh, I scored that one

00:03:05 ◼   ► for you.

00:03:06 ◼   ► - No, I don't think so. - But it wasn't, was it?

00:03:08 ◼   ► Okay, so this has potentially changed things.

00:03:10 ◼   ► We might be up for a debate now, so let's carry on.

00:03:12 ◼   ► - No, it's good that we've dismissed Steven.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Classical music app, no.

00:03:17 ◼   ► You had new privacy focused features.

00:03:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:03:22 ◼   ► - Yep, new AR features.

00:03:24 ◼   ► Strangely, not discussed.

00:03:27 ◼   ► New notification management tools outside of focus modes.

00:03:31 ◼   ► - So this is-- - Have that as a yes?

00:03:32 ◼   ► - You had that as a yes, cool, I had that as a yes.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I wondered if you-- - I have that as a yes.

00:03:36 ◼   ► Because they changed how notifications work.

00:03:39 ◼   ► - They do. - Right?

00:03:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, they did.

00:03:41 ◼   ► plus the eliminating sports scores and things

00:03:44 ◼   ► and turning those things

00:03:45 ◼   ► into a different kind of notification, right?

00:03:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's got a particular name,

00:03:49 ◼   ► which we will get to later on.

00:03:50 ◼   ► It's sort of like live interactions or something like that.

00:03:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think that's what it is,

00:03:54 ◼   ► but it is a new thing.

00:03:55 ◼   ► New features for messages. - Hey, I've got COVID brain,

00:03:57 ◼   ► man, you gotta let me off today, you know?

00:03:59 ◼   ► - All right, new features for messages.

00:04:01 ◼   ► Yep, yep, for sure.

00:04:03 ◼   ► Enhancements to Swift UI.

00:04:05 ◼   ► Yes, but not in the keynote. (laughs)

00:04:08 ◼   ► - You know, when I looked,

00:04:09 ◼   ► I was looking over the draft right before we started

00:04:11 ◼   ► and I was like, why did I pick that?

00:04:13 ◼   ► That was a stupid pick.

00:04:14 ◼   ► That was a stupid pick.

00:04:15 ◼   ► Like of course it was gonna happen,

00:04:17 ◼   ► but they weren't gonna talk about it during the keynote.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Come on.

00:04:19 ◼   ► - I had a few of those where I thought,

00:04:20 ◼   ► why did I think they would say that at the keynote?

00:04:22 ◼   ► - So stupid.

00:04:23 ◼   ► - You think we would have learned

00:04:24 ◼   ► and redesign of the home app.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Yep, that happened.

00:04:28 ◼   ► All right, so in that group,

00:04:30 ◼   ► the scores are four to three in your favor.

00:04:34 ◼   ► macOS and Mac hardware picks.

00:04:36 ◼   ► I chose-

00:04:37 ◼   ► - This is a bad one.

00:04:38 ◼   ► - That was a bloodbath.

00:04:39 ◼   ► At least one feature will be stated

00:04:40 ◼   ► as being Apple Silicon only.

00:04:42 ◼   ► Nope, not on the matter.

00:04:45 ◼   ► - There are features like this again,

00:04:46 ◼   ► as these things trickle out afterwards.

00:04:49 ◼   ► There is some stuff,

00:04:50 ◼   ► I think it might be live text related, I could check but--

00:04:52 ◼   ► - But I don't think they mentioned any of it in the keynote

00:04:54 ◼   ► because why would you say something negative in the keynote?

00:04:56 ◼   ► It's a keynote.

00:04:58 ◼   ► New MacBook Air announced, I think I got that one, Myke.

00:05:00 ◼   ► I think I got it. - I think you sure did.

00:05:01 ◼   ► - Shortcuts for Mac improvements specifically highlighted.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Nope.

00:05:05 ◼   ► New way to access widgets on Mac OS.

00:05:08 ◼   ► No, this is you now.

00:05:10 ◼   ► These are your picks.

00:05:11 ◼   ► New Mac Pro.

00:05:12 ◼   ► I missed that if that happened.

00:05:13 ◼   ► I don't think that happened.

00:05:15 ◼   ► And redesign of system preferences.

00:05:16 ◼   ► Yes, but not in the keynote, apparently.

00:05:21 ◼   ► But word has reached these shores

00:05:22 ◼   ► from the state of the union that that did happen.

00:05:24 ◼   ► - Oh wait, the system preferences thing.

00:05:26 ◼   ► It was in the keynote.

00:05:27 ◼   ► It was on one of the big blurb slide things.

00:05:30 ◼   ► - Oh, I was sitting way back and sitting.

00:05:33 ◼   ► So you're gonna claim that?

00:05:35 ◼   ► It was there, I can promise you that.

00:05:37 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:05:38 ◼   ► - It was like it said, I think it said,

00:05:41 ◼   ► it wasn't called system preferences, I think,

00:05:44 ◼   ► but it was like it had a little screenshot

00:05:47 ◼   ► and it was like system wide settings

00:05:49 ◼   ► or whatever, system preferences or something.

00:05:51 ◼   ► So it was in the keynote.

00:05:53 ◼   ► - What did they do to it?

00:05:55 ◼   ► - It's got a redesign.

00:05:56 ◼   ► It looks like iOS now.

00:05:57 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I haven't seen that.

00:06:01 ◼   ► - So with the whole like the navigation on the left side

00:06:04 ◼   ► and then all of the settings.

00:06:05 ◼   ► So it looks like the iPad settings.

00:06:08 ◼   ► - We have witnesses who say what's in the slide.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Okay, well then this is gonna go your way.

00:06:10 ◼   ► - My fortunes might be changing.

00:06:12 ◼   ► My fortunes might be changing.

00:06:13 ◼   ► This is great news.

00:06:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, you feel better all of a sudden.

00:06:16 ◼   ► - I feel like a new man already.

00:06:19 ◼   ► - Okay, other picks.

00:06:20 ◼   ► Here's what I've chose.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Craig Federighi appears, easy.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Old watch faces upgraded, yes.

00:06:25 ◼   ► - Jason, I have incredible news for you on this.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Utility will now feature rich complications.

00:06:33 ◼   ► - I know, that's exactly what I asked for.

00:06:35 ◼   ► - It's just what you asked for,

00:06:36 ◼   ► and they did it for you, Jason.

00:06:37 ◼   ► - They did it, they did it.

00:06:38 ◼   ► New health focused app in watchOS, yes indeed.

00:06:41 ◼   ► - I'm very excited about that.

00:06:42 ◼   ► - There he is.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Inside view of the Steve Jobs theater

00:06:45 ◼   ► with wacky special effects, no way.

00:06:48 ◼   ► - Did they look inside of the Steve Jobs theater,

00:06:50 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:06:51 ◼   ► Let's put him on a fake lift and we'll send him down.

00:06:55 ◼   ► And they're like, oh, you liked him catching an iPad?

00:06:57 ◼   ► Now he's gonna catch an iPhone.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Craig can catch anything.

00:07:00 ◼   ► TV app redesigned on TV OS.

00:07:04 ◼   ► - What's TV OS?

00:07:05 ◼   ► I never heard of it.

00:07:06 ◼   ► - I don't know either.

00:07:08 ◼   ► All right, you picked.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Some portion of the program is live.

00:07:11 ◼   ► - No, it wasn't. - Nope.

00:07:12 ◼   ► - This was a huge surprise to me.

00:07:15 ◼   ► We'll talk about this in a little bit,

00:07:16 ◼   ► but I was very surprised about that.

00:07:18 ◼   ► - New watch faces, yes, always.

00:07:22 ◼   ► Tim Cook presents in front of an audience.

00:07:23 ◼   ► Now, people are gonna say, well,

00:07:25 ◼   ► Tim Cook did go and say good morning

00:07:27 ◼   ► to the crowd at Apple Park.

00:07:28 ◼   ► - Good morning. - In advance of it.

00:07:30 ◼   ► He said it twice.

00:07:31 ◼   ► He said, "Good morning, good morning."

00:07:32 ◼   ► He did.

00:07:33 ◼   ► And then Craig came out and also said, "Good morning."

00:07:35 ◼   ► - Good morning.

00:07:36 ◼   ► - However, it was not on the live stream.

00:07:37 ◼   ► If they'd put it on the live stream,

00:07:38 ◼   ► this would have counted, but it doesn't count

00:07:40 ◼   ► 'cause it wasn't in the keynote.

00:07:41 ◼   ► It was in his pre-keynote remarks

00:07:45 ◼   ► to a small gathering instead.

00:07:47 ◼   ► So it doesn't count.

00:07:48 ◼   ► - I checked this with you after the thing.

00:07:51 ◼   ► 'Cause I was like, for me, I could go either way on it,

00:07:54 ◼   ► but I wanted to see what you thought.

00:07:56 ◼   ► - And I did consult with Steven Hackett

00:07:57 ◼   ► and he said that he agreed.

00:07:59 ◼   ► If it didn't stream out, then it doesn't count.

00:08:01 ◼   ► - And I don't disagree with you, right?

00:08:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, you don't need to now.

00:08:04 ◼   ► - If we were there together, then it's like,

00:08:06 ◼   ► we know that if we're looking at this kind of like

00:08:10 ◼   ► big brain of like, well, the keynote that we perceived,

00:08:13 ◼   ► you know, but obviously I didn't see it,

00:08:16 ◼   ► so I can't really make that argument.

00:08:18 ◼   ► - Not really.

00:08:19 ◼   ► No AR or VR hardware announced or pre-announced,

00:08:22 ◼   ► you nailed it, the buzzkill pic, good job.

00:08:25 ◼   ► New way to access favorite apps in watchOS.

00:08:28 ◼   ► They said that-- - Pinning.

00:08:31 ◼   ► This is exactly what I wanted.

00:08:32 ◼   ► It's a combination of the two features.

00:08:34 ◼   ► 'Cause on watchOS right now,

00:08:35 ◼   ► you can either have favorites or recents.

00:08:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:08:39 ◼   ► - But what they've given is what I wanted,

00:08:40 ◼   ► which is recents with some apps

00:08:43 ◼   ► that you can pin in that view.

00:08:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, and they did specifically say in the keynote

00:08:48 ◼   ► about how there was a new way to put the most common apps

00:08:51 ◼   ► or the running apps at the top of the list.

00:08:53 ◼   ► And so that alone was enough.

00:08:55 ◼   ► It blew right past my brain,

00:08:57 ◼   ► but it was like, okay, that does count.

00:08:58 ◼   ► They did say that.

00:08:59 ◼   ► We didn't get the name right, it's Ventura.

00:09:02 ◼   ► - What a great name though.

00:09:04 ◼   ► - I consider, so I considered Ventura

00:09:05 ◼   ► and this is a case where I knew too much about California

00:09:07 ◼   ► because Ventura is a great name for an operating system

00:09:10 ◼   ► and not that nice a place, but that's okay.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Sorry, apologies to Ventura.

00:09:14 ◼   ► - I can't get Jesse "The Bloody" Ventura out my head.

00:09:17 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:09:17 ◼   ► - Mackie "The Bloody" Ventura, that's where I am.

00:09:20 ◼   ► - Well, because of that, Myke, you win the draft

00:09:24 ◼   ► 'cause it's the under. - Oh my God.

00:09:25 ◼   ► So you win an 8-8 on a tie break.

00:09:27 ◼   ► - Jason, this is the best gift you could have given me today.

00:09:31 ◼   ► You know, I've had a terrible day.

00:09:32 ◼   ► - It's all worth it.

00:09:34 ◼   ► - I wouldn't say that.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Wouldn't say it's all worth it.

00:09:38 ◼   ► But this has put me in a very good mood now, you know?

00:09:41 ◼   ► I'm very happy about that.

00:09:42 ◼   ► Wow, look at me.

00:09:43 ◼   ► - I'm gonna have to flip over my pennant.

00:09:46 ◼   ► - The curse is broken.

00:09:49 ◼   ► - This was always your strongest event.

00:09:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, WWDC is where I shine, you know?

00:09:54 ◼   ► - You do.

00:09:55 ◼   ► - And I did it.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Oh man, that's so good.

00:09:57 ◼   ► I will raise my own hand in victory.

00:10:00 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, I see it.

00:10:01 ◼   ► - So Jason, you were at Apple Park today.

00:10:04 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:10:05 ◼   ► - What was going on?

00:10:06 ◼   ► There was lots, the pictures were interesting.

00:10:08 ◼   ► It looked surprising to me, like where you were

00:10:11 ◼   ► and how it was set up.

00:10:12 ◼   ► What was the vibe?

00:10:14 ◼   ► Give me a vibe check.

00:10:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, so having not done this before,

00:10:18 ◼   ► none of us really knew what to expect.

00:10:20 ◼   ► And, so I've been to the Steve Jobs Theater

00:10:24 ◼   ► a bunch of times for events and even for product briefings

00:10:27 ◼   ► when there weren't events.

00:10:28 ◼   ► And there's a way you do that,

00:10:32 ◼   ► which is you park under the Apple store

00:10:35 ◼   ► and then you come over to the visitor's center

00:10:37 ◼   ► and they let you in and you go to the left, up the hill,

00:10:40 ◼   ► to the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:10:41 ◼   ► That's how it's done.

00:10:42 ◼   ► And today we parked at the developer's center.

00:10:46 ◼   ► We walked in through that same entryway,

00:10:50 ◼   ► the Tantao Entrance Welcome Center, whatever it is.

00:10:53 ◼   ► - Does that mean anything, Tan Tao?

00:10:56 ◼   ► 'Cause I always think of, what are they in Star Wars?

00:10:58 ◼   ► Is it Taunt?

00:10:59 ◼   ► - Tauntauns? - Tauntauns.

00:11:01 ◼   ► That's how I read it, is like Tauntaun Avenue.

00:11:04 ◼   ► I'm like, oh man, gotta climb in there when you're cold.

00:11:06 ◼   ► - I imagine it's like a guy who they named a street after

00:11:09 ◼   ► who was down here when it was all like orchards or something

00:11:14 ◼   ► and they just named it after old man Tan Tao.

00:11:16 ◼   ► So this time you go through there and you go right.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Like, whoa, I haven't been to the right before.

00:11:26 ◼   ► - What happens over there?

00:11:27 ◼   ► - You know what's the right, Myke?

00:11:28 ◼   ► To the right is the actual ring at Apple Park.

00:11:33 ◼   ► And I've never been anywhere near that before.

00:11:35 ◼   ► So that was really different.

00:11:36 ◼   ► We're all just kind of headed over there.

00:11:38 ◼   ► They took the media up to like the second floor

00:11:41 ◼   ► above Cafe Max and we hung out there for a couple of hours

00:11:44 ◼   ► 'cause we got in at like 8 a.m.

00:11:46 ◼   ► and the show was at 10.

00:11:47 ◼   ► - If you don't mind me jumping in for a second

00:11:49 ◼   ► 'cause obviously people can't,

00:11:50 ◼   ► but hey, Jason's been there before.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Steve Jobs Theater is not inside the ring

00:11:55 ◼   ► or even that close to it, right?

00:11:57 ◼   ► - No, it's in the super block that Apple Park is in.

00:12:00 ◼   ► Like this building, the developer center we're in right now

00:12:03 ◼   ► is across Tantow Avenue from the super block

00:12:06 ◼   ► where all that stuff is.

00:12:08 ◼   ► It's right next, it's actually right across the street

00:12:09 ◼   ► from the visitor center.

00:12:12 ◼   ► So Steve Jobs Theater is in that super block,

00:12:15 ◼   ► but again, it is separate.

00:12:16 ◼   ► It is in the, whatever that is,

00:12:18 ◼   ► southeast corner of the campus.

00:12:22 ◼   ► So you go through that entryway on Tantau,

00:12:24 ◼   ► and then if you go right, you go to the ring.

00:12:27 ◼   ► If you go left, you go up the hill

00:12:29 ◼   ► to the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:12:30 ◼   ► So they're separate from each other.

00:12:32 ◼   ► And you can see the ring building off in the distance

00:12:35 ◼   ► from the Steve Jobs Theater, but it's off in the distance.

00:12:37 ◼   ► It's an intentional design to bring the public

00:12:41 ◼   ► over to this space for public events

00:12:43 ◼   ► and not have them be in Apple Park.

00:12:46 ◼   ► And I think that COVID probably had,

00:12:50 ◼   ► My guess, just, we were thinking about this

00:12:54 ◼   ► while we were sitting there this morning,

00:12:56 ◼   ► is that there was probably even some debate

00:12:58 ◼   ► and discussion within Apple about like,

00:13:00 ◼   ► would the ring be something that would ever be sort of used

00:13:04 ◼   ► in public events or would it not be?

00:13:06 ◼   ► And it could be, but I was,

00:13:09 ◼   ► I'm not sure I believed it ever would be,

00:13:11 ◼   ► but things, you know, things have changed.

00:13:14 ◼   ► - There was no purpose for it.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Like, they built a whole theater,

00:13:16 ◼   ► like there's no reason to ever have had non-Apple employees

00:13:20 ◼   ► in the building.

00:13:21 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:13:22 ◼   ► - And again, now they have the developer center, right?

00:13:25 ◼   ► Even, you know, 'cause I was talking to David Smith,

00:13:29 ◼   ► I traveled to David Smith.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Luckily we were all masked the entire time,

00:13:34 ◼   ► just as a note.

00:13:35 ◼   ► I just should say as well, my wife Adina's with me,

00:13:39 ◼   ► and she's negative, which is great.

00:13:41 ◼   ► It's making things complicated here,

00:13:43 ◼   ► 'cause we're wearing masks constantly, even sleeping,

00:13:46 ◼   ► which is real hard in an FFP2 mask,

00:13:49 ◼   ► but we're making it work.

00:13:50 ◼   ► But I'm blessed to have her here

00:13:52 ◼   ► 'cause I would be completely lost right now.

00:13:54 ◼   ► But anyway, I traveled with David

00:13:56 ◼   ► and we were talking about the developer center.

00:13:58 ◼   ► One of the great things about the developer center

00:14:02 ◼   ► and that it exists is that people can go to Apple Park

00:14:06 ◼   ► and have meetings now, right?

00:14:08 ◼   ► Because previously there was no way to do that.

00:14:12 ◼   ► And it's like the same for me and you.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Like if we had a friend at Apple

00:14:15 ◼   ► or whatever and wanted to go have a lunch,

00:14:16 ◼   ► they can't take us in there.

00:14:18 ◼   ► Like it's not a thing that happens.

00:14:20 ◼   ► I understand why, right?

00:14:21 ◼   ► And so like that's what they have all the,

00:14:23 ◼   ► they have the visitor center outside,

00:14:24 ◼   ► the developer center.

00:14:26 ◼   ► So you think why would they ever let anybody

00:14:28 ◼   ► inside the ring?

00:14:28 ◼   ► And they have done that, but that is a big surprise

00:14:31 ◼   ► to everyone who cares about this stuff I think.

00:14:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the, right now what I would say though is

00:14:37 ◼   ► things have changed.

00:14:40 ◼   ► They did this event.

00:14:41 ◼   ► They brought in, there were a lot of people there.

00:14:43 ◼   ► They brought in a lot of developers,

00:14:44 ◼   ► and there were people from Apple,

00:14:46 ◼   ► and there was a lot of media there.

00:14:47 ◼   ► sort of the usual media crowd,

00:14:49 ◼   ► it was really quite remarkable.

00:14:50 ◼   ► It was a lot of familiar faces.

00:14:52 ◼   ► It was a throwback to 2019, essentially.

00:14:55 ◼   ► And the way they set it up is they opened basically

00:14:58 ◼   ► all of the sliding doors at all at Cafe Max,

00:15:02 ◼   ► but the event actually sort of faced out from Cafe Max

00:15:05 ◼   ► to a kind of a lawn on the outside.

00:15:06 ◼   ► So we weren't inside the ring when the event was going on,

00:15:10 ◼   ► and they had like essentially like a jumbotron.

00:15:12 ◼   ► So I was concerned, we talked about like seeing the video

00:15:16 ◼   ► in bright sunlight and all that,

00:15:17 ◼   ► but it was like a jumbotron kind of a scoreboard thing

00:15:20 ◼   ► you'd see at a sporting event

00:15:22 ◼   ► where the light is not a problem,

00:15:23 ◼   ► it's a very bright screen.

00:15:25 ◼   ► And so that was the venue.

00:15:27 ◼   ► I will say, I look at this event and think to myself,

00:15:32 ◼   ► I don't know why Apple would ever do anything

00:15:33 ◼   ► other than this ever again for the developer conference

00:15:37 ◼   ► because you can get a...

00:15:38 ◼   ► First off--

00:15:39 ◼   ► - It looked like there was a lot of people there too, Jason.

00:15:41 ◼   ► - There were a lot of people there,

00:15:42 ◼   ► but even if it was-- - It looked like hundreds

00:15:43 ◼   ► and hundreds of people there.

00:15:45 ◼   ► - Even if it's fewer,

00:15:46 ◼   ► Even if it's a lot fewer than would go to San Jose,

00:15:49 ◼   ► what I would say is it's the difference

00:15:52 ◼   ► between 99.99% of Apple developers don't go

00:15:56 ◼   ► and 99.999%, like nobody goes.

00:16:00 ◼   ► It's an exclusionary thing.

00:16:01 ◼   ► People are watching online.

00:16:02 ◼   ► And the livestream of the keynote

00:16:05 ◼   ► and the State of the Union and then all of the sessions

00:16:07 ◼   ► is such a great way to do it.

00:16:09 ◼   ► It's great for everybody.

00:16:10 ◼   ► So I don't think there's that much of a difference,

00:16:13 ◼   ► but it does allow people to come

00:16:15 ◼   ► and it does allow them to have this.

00:16:16 ◼   ► And the big thing is that Apple gets to do it

00:16:19 ◼   ► on their terms in their space that they own

00:16:22 ◼   ► in the way they want.

00:16:23 ◼   ► And rather than having to deal with

00:16:26 ◼   ► San Jose Convention Center and their caterer

00:16:29 ◼   ► and their unions who are doing the trucking

00:16:31 ◼   ► and all those things, it's like,

00:16:33 ◼   ► they don't have to do any of that.

00:16:34 ◼   ► They've got their own facilities

00:16:36 ◼   ► and they've proven that they can do it.

00:16:37 ◼   ► So I would actually be surprised

00:16:40 ◼   ► if this is not the model going forward,

00:16:42 ◼   ► which is a short one, two,

00:16:44 ◼   ► maybe an extra day spillover event that happens.

00:16:47 ◼   ► It's really about the keynote.

00:16:49 ◼   ► It's about getting some developers

00:16:51 ◼   ► into the developer center and to see the keynote

00:16:53 ◼   ► and to talk to people,

00:16:54 ◼   ► but that everybody else experiences it online.

00:16:57 ◼   ► And in fact, if I had to make a prediction

00:16:59 ◼   ► and COVID makes this, it's difficult to make predictions.

00:17:02 ◼   ► I would say that the ultimate form of this

00:17:04 ◼   ► is probably that we're all back in the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:17:06 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

00:17:07 ◼   ► So the media may be in the Steve Jobs Theater,

00:17:10 ◼   ► 'cause this was a question we had before,

00:17:12 ◼   ► like would they split it up?

00:17:13 ◼   ► Which really they could have today, right?

00:17:15 ◼   ► 'Cause there wasn't actually a focal point.

00:17:17 ◼   ► - They could have.

00:17:18 ◼   ► - We were wondering.

00:17:19 ◼   ► - But that theater has a lot of people,

00:17:21 ◼   ► will fit a lot of people in it.

00:17:22 ◼   ► But regardless, I think it was a good event and a good venue

00:17:25 ◼   ► and the only thing that surprised me

00:17:28 ◼   ► was that there was no live component

00:17:30 ◼   ► and I have two thoughts about that.

00:17:31 ◼   ► One of which is streaming things live is really hard

00:17:35 ◼   ► and preloading things onto a CDN is a good way to do it

00:17:38 ◼   ► and you can't do that if it's live.

00:17:40 ◼   ► And the second point is COVID, right?

00:17:43 ◼   ► Which is if you make the presentation in such a way

00:17:47 ◼   ► that you're intending for it to be used

00:17:49 ◼   ► with a live component

00:17:51 ◼   ► and you have to cancel the live component,

00:17:52 ◼   ► you have to then go back

00:17:54 ◼   ► and make a different version of it or whatever.

00:17:56 ◼   ► So better to not, right?

00:17:58 ◼   ► Better to not.

00:17:59 ◼   ► And instead we got, you know,

00:18:00 ◼   ► Tim and Craig came out in front of the screen at 8.50

00:18:05 ◼   ► or no, sorry, 9.50 and said, "Good morning, good morning.

00:18:08 ◼   ► It's great to be here."

00:18:09 ◼   ► and they like, and it was literally like,

00:18:11 ◼   ► and presenting me, it was like going to a premiere

00:18:14 ◼   ► where the stars of the show come out beforehand

00:18:16 ◼   ► to say, look, we enjoy our movie.

00:18:18 ◼   ► And then they're out of there.

00:18:20 ◼   ► So I don't know, it feels like a model

00:18:23 ◼   ► for their future events.

00:18:24 ◼   ► - This seems to have gone so well.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Even sitting on the outside,

00:18:29 ◼   ► I could kind of see how well it was all going.

00:18:32 ◼   ► I think you're bang on.

00:18:34 ◼   ► They can maybe expand it out in different ways.

00:18:37 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:18:38 ◼   ► do more in person parts.

00:18:40 ◼   ► I could imagine a situation where they do like

00:18:42 ◼   ► what they did today and they have developers come

00:18:44 ◼   ► and they set up Cafe Max like that.

00:18:46 ◼   ► 'Cause it seemed like it was very well,

00:18:48 ◼   ► not purpose made for it, but like they were able

00:18:50 ◼   ► to really easily, it seems, fit everything in there.

00:18:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think, and I know it's an effort

00:18:58 ◼   ► and they have to bring in lots of people

00:18:59 ◼   ► to do crowd control and all that,

00:19:00 ◼   ► but the fact is, you have to do all of that anyway

00:19:03 ◼   ► at a big event, but I think just my read on it is

00:19:07 ◼   ► that Apple would prefer.

00:19:09 ◼   ► I mean, it's their turf.

00:19:10 ◼   ► It's their everything, the food they serve,

00:19:13 ◼   ► the drinks they serve, like everything just gets to be

00:19:15 ◼   ► using the stuff that Apple does,

00:19:18 ◼   ► instead of it being dealing with, you know,

00:19:20 ◼   ► whatever bureaucracy is in San Jose or San Francisco

00:19:24 ◼   ► or anywhere else that you have to work with

00:19:28 ◼   ► and get judged by, right?

00:19:29 ◼   ► Then you want the event to be perfect

00:19:31 ◼   ► and there's something about it that you don't like

00:19:32 ◼   ► that you can't control.

00:19:33 ◼   ► I mean, ATP always talks about the box lunches

00:19:37 ◼   ► at Moscone, right?

00:19:38 ◼   ► And it's like, well, whatever vendor was mandated to run,

00:19:43 ◼   ► you got the contract from Moscone Center,

00:19:46 ◼   ► they were the ones who did that and they set the price

00:19:48 ◼   ► and Apple did not have much of a choice there.

00:19:51 ◼   ► And so here Apple gets to have much more control over it.

00:19:54 ◼   ► So I think it was a very positive experience.

00:19:57 ◼   ► It was very much a one day event kind of experience.

00:20:01 ◼   ► It was like going to any other Apple media event,

00:20:03 ◼   ► except we sat outside and watched a video

00:20:05 ◼   ► instead of going into the theater

00:20:07 ◼   ► and watching people on stage.

00:20:08 ◼   ► But it did feel like a model.

00:20:11 ◼   ► And it did still have that kind of festival vibe

00:20:13 ◼   ► that a WWDC keynote has that a media event doesn't

00:20:17 ◼   ► because the developers are there

00:20:18 ◼   ► and they're legitimately excited.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Whereas at a media event, what you get is,

00:20:22 ◼   ► you get the media, most of whom are not supposed

00:20:25 ◼   ► to be cheering and stuff.

00:20:27 ◼   ► And so you also then have sort of your VIP invited guest

00:20:31 ◼   ► and Apple employee people who are making the noise

00:20:33 ◼   ► because you really do wanna have it sound like a

00:20:36 ◼   ► full theater with people cheering and stuff.

00:20:38 ◼   ► And with the developers, the energy is totally different

00:20:41 ◼   ► and you don't need to worry about it.

00:20:42 ◼   ► They will cheer.

00:20:44 ◼   ► Although I will admit that when they announced

00:20:46 ◼   ► external display support for the iPad,

00:20:47 ◼   ► I did throw up my arms like I was a referee

00:20:49 ◼   ► signaling a touchdown at a football game.

00:20:52 ◼   ► But otherwise I was fairly restrained.

00:20:54 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you in part by our friends

00:20:57 ◼   ► over at Sourcegraph.

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00:22:36 ◼   ► and Relay FM. So there's actually way more than we could ever expect to get to today.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Like we're not going to be able to cover everything that was announced at WWDC. We're going to

00:22:48 ◼   ► cover the large platforms right and we'll pick some of the things that we think are

00:22:51 ◼   ► the most important, but I expect we'll be picking this apart over the next couple of

00:22:55 ◼   ► episodes, especially as things continue to come out as they always do. Should we start

00:23:00 ◼   ► with iOS? It seemed like this was, got the most time, it felt like, at least.

00:23:06 ◼   ► Yeah, and it is a continuation from last year where a lot of it is just the decision of

00:23:11 ◼   ► how you'd choose to tell the story because there were things in the Mac section and in

00:23:16 ◼   ► the iPad section that were features that were revealed to be, and this is also of course

00:23:20 ◼   ► on all on the other platforms too so it's really just sort of how do you how

00:23:24 ◼   ► do you pick it out and what do you try to focus on and iOS is the biggest

00:23:29 ◼   ► platform so in many ways it makes sense to start with it and to reveal a bunch

00:23:33 ◼   ► of the features there. So obviously I think the biggest one is the one that

00:23:39 ◼   ► was I think maybe the one we spoke about the most in the previous episode from

00:23:44 ◼   ► the sheriff's leaks which was the lock screen and really it feels like the lock

00:23:50 ◼   ► screen is getting a pretty huge makeover in a way I think that makes it incredibly obvious

00:23:55 ◼   ► that the next iPhone has an always-on display, right? Like, just the amount of effort that

00:24:00 ◼   ► has gone into the lock screen feels like it's maybe setting the stage for something, as

00:24:06 ◼   ► well as it is just making it better, you know what I mean?

00:24:09 ◼   ► Yeah, it certainly makes it, um, it increases the value of that space, which means if you

00:24:14 ◼   ► were to have a phone that could stay on,

00:24:18 ◼   ► it would be able to, you know, display information

00:24:21 ◼   ► that would be valuable in some ways.

00:24:23 ◼   ► I was struck by -- I think it's funny.

00:24:26 ◼   ► You know, we talk a lot about the Apple reusing stuff

00:24:29 ◼   ► in different places.

00:24:30 ◼   ► I was really struck by how this is watch faces, essentially.

00:24:34 ◼   ► -Yes, incredible, right? -The inspiration for this feature

00:24:37 ◼   ► is coming from the implementation of watch faces

00:24:40 ◼   ► on watchOS, not just in the sense that you've got your,

00:24:43 ◼   ► sort of tap and hold and then swipe between different watch faces, which is very much

00:24:48 ◼   ► like the watch face editing interface, but also that you've got essentially complications

00:24:53 ◼   ► that you can put in, and that you've got then the, you know, tap in the various little bordered

00:24:58 ◼   ► areas to do customization in terms of what goes where.

00:25:03 ◼   ► That's all very familiar for anybody who's used watchOS.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Watch face, right?

00:25:08 ◼   ► Sure.

00:25:09 ◼   ► the kind of vibe with the time going behind a subject in an image.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Same thing as on the watch. So that was notable. Also my immediate thought, and by the way,

00:25:21 ◼   ► as they were going through all the different colors and fonts, I looked over it at _DavidSmith

00:25:27 ◼   ► who was absolutely laughing and bouncing up and down because it looks so much like what

00:25:34 ◼   ► he has been playing with with WidgetSmith for two years. But it strikes me, and I know

00:25:39 ◼   ► we've talked about it before, that the way the operating system cycle often works is

00:25:44 ◼   ► by the time everybody has gathered all the anecdotes and all of the buzz about the first

00:25:53 ◼   ► few months of an OS release being out there and what do people love and what do people

00:25:57 ◼   ► not love, people are already working on what the next OS rev is going to be. And as a result,

00:26:03 ◼   ► You get a lot of situations where there's a two-year cycle that happens because everybody

00:26:09 ◼   ► making their aesthetic AF home screens two years ago, by the time that really hits, it

00:26:19 ◼   ► may be harder to find a way to fit in iOS 15 a bunch of customization features to ride

00:26:26 ◼   ► that wave.

00:26:27 ◼   ► And so instead it sort of gets bookmarked as like, "Okay, let's do this in the next

00:26:32 ◼   ► And we see that there are a lot of things that seem to go into your cycles.

00:26:37 ◼   ► And it's very clear to me that this is something that got, I don't want to say like this happened

00:26:43 ◼   ► because of that, because there's lots of other things there including possibly like justifying

00:26:47 ◼   ► it because they want to have an iPhone that has the screen on all the time.

00:26:51 ◼   ► There's lots of things there.

00:26:52 ◼   ► But it strikes me that one of the things that was motivating this feature to get prioritized

00:26:56 ◼   ► is the response to all of the widgets

00:27:00 ◼   ► and all of personal customization on iPhones two years ago.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Like this is what we talked about back then,

00:27:07 ◼   ► back two years ago about how Apple should get this signal

00:27:11 ◼   ► that people really wanna customize

00:27:13 ◼   ► and personalize their iPhones.

00:27:16 ◼   ► And here it is, not only here,

00:27:20 ◼   ► but because it's interconnected to focus modes,

00:27:26 ◼   ► you're changing the watch face or the lock screen,

00:27:28 ◼   ► I call it a watch face, sure.

00:27:29 ◼   ► You're changing the lock screen can change your home screen

00:27:33 ◼   ► because it changes your focus mode.

00:27:36 ◼   ► So there's lots going on here, but I think it looks fun

00:27:40 ◼   ► and there will be lots of horrible lock screens,

00:27:42 ◼   ► but that's okay.

00:27:43 ◼   ► That's part of the price you pay for customization

00:27:46 ◼   ► and I love it.

00:27:47 ◼   ► And wallpapers too, all sorts of wild wallpaper things

00:27:52 ◼   ► and like themes where you pick emoji

00:27:55 ◼   ► and it does a pattern with them and colors and--

00:27:57 ◼   ► - And there was that thing, we were talking about it, right?

00:28:00 ◼   ► That like what Mark Gumman reported didn't seem right

00:28:02 ◼   ► in that like, there are some lock screens

00:28:05 ◼   ► that are like weather lock screens

00:28:07 ◼   ► and it just shows the weather, right?

00:28:08 ◼   ► - Right. - But that's a choice

00:28:10 ◼   ► that you can make, it's not like the only thing.

00:28:12 ◼   ► You can use your own imagery.

00:28:14 ◼   ► And I'm intrigued to see like, I don't know about,

00:28:17 ◼   ► it's like will people be able to like make images

00:28:20 ◼   ► that are like this, you know,

00:28:21 ◼   ► like where the time can go behind them?

00:28:22 ◼   ► Like, could I make in Photoshop something and put some data in

00:28:26 ◼   ► and make it available?

00:28:27 ◼   ► I don't know, right?

00:28:28 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:28:29 ◼   ► I don't know if we mentioned it, but the widgets

00:28:33 ◼   ► on the home screen, they literally are complications.

00:28:36 ◼   ► Like, it's been confirmed it's the same code.

00:28:39 ◼   ► So apps that have watch components,

00:28:42 ◼   ► you'll be able to put this information in there.

00:28:45 ◼   ► I don't know right now if you can do anything special

00:28:48 ◼   ► specifically for the lock screen stuff,

00:28:51 ◼   ► but it's possible to actually have this available.

00:28:55 ◼   ► Like, you know, if you have a Apple Watch complication,

00:28:59 ◼   ► you can add it to this little area, and it's fantastic.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Like, I love it. I think it's great.

00:29:04 ◼   ► -This is such a good example of Apple,

00:29:06 ◼   ► because the -- just think about it.

00:29:09 ◼   ► Who does big consumer operating systems?

00:29:11 ◼   ► And there's, like, Microsoft has Windows,

00:29:13 ◼   ► and Google has Android.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Apple has iOS, macOS, iPadOS, TVOS, WatchOS,

00:29:19 ◼   ► maybe other OSes to come, right?

00:29:21 ◼   ► The only way it can maintain all of those

00:29:23 ◼   ► is by trying to create this fairly common platform,

00:29:27 ◼   ► giving developers tools that can be reused,

00:29:29 ◼   ► tools it can reuse itself.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Like this is how Apple is capable

00:29:33 ◼   ► of maintaining all of this stuff.

00:29:35 ◼   ► So when you see something like complications

00:29:37 ◼   ► being on the iPhone home screen, it's like, well, yeah.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Why would you invent a new thing

00:29:41 ◼   ► that does exactly what the other thing does?

00:29:43 ◼   ► Widgets is the same way, right?

00:29:45 ◼   ► Like widgets, if Apple makes that rumor

00:29:48 ◼   ► about like a HomePod with a screen, right?

00:29:52 ◼   ► Like I'll eat my hat, I won't actually,

00:29:54 ◼   ► but just as a point of phrase,

00:29:56 ◼   ► if it doesn't do things like reuse widgets,

00:29:58 ◼   ► 'cause why would you build a new thing

00:30:01 ◼   ► to have ambient information

00:30:02 ◼   ► when you've already built the thing

00:30:04 ◼   ► and it's called widgets or it's called complications?

00:30:06 ◼   ► So it makes a lot of sense for these things to be reused

00:30:09 ◼   ► and I'm glad that they are reusing them

00:30:10 ◼   ► because no developer wants to say,

00:30:12 ◼   ► "Wait a second, you built a different thing

00:30:13 ◼   ► "that's just like complications but isn't?

00:30:15 ◼   ► "So I have to do all new work?"

00:30:17 ◼   ► Like, no, you don't.

00:30:19 ◼   ► We already did this and we've had it for several years

00:30:21 ◼   ► and everybody understands how it works

00:30:23 ◼   ► and here it is on the lock screen.

00:30:25 ◼   ► - We didn't get interactive widgets.

00:30:28 ◼   ► What we did get is something that's halfway

00:30:30 ◼   ► between a notification and a widget

00:30:32 ◼   ► and they're called live activities.

00:30:35 ◼   ► - Live activities.

00:30:36 ◼   ► - And they were shown off as like,

00:30:37 ◼   ► "Hey, sports, there's some sports going on, you know,

00:30:40 ◼   ► and you want the scores of the sports?

00:30:42 ◼   ► Well, here's the notification."

00:30:44 ◼   ► Instead of getting like 20 notifications

00:30:46 ◼   ► of everything happening on the sports,

00:30:48 ◼   ► you can just get one notification

00:30:50 ◼   ► and it will update over time.

00:30:52 ◼   ► - Well, so like the MLB app,

00:30:54 ◼   ► and in another era,

00:30:57 ◼   ► they probably would have been on stage to demo this,

00:31:00 ◼   ► but in the MLB app, one of the things you can do is say,

00:31:03 ◼   ► for my favorite team, notify me when the score changes.

00:31:06 ◼   ► - Right.

00:31:07 ◼   ► - And that means that every time anybody scores

00:31:09 ◼   ► in a baseball game, you get a separate push notification.

00:31:12 ◼   ► When what you really want is put the score

00:31:15 ◼   ► of the Giants game on my notification screen, right?

00:31:18 ◼   ► Like that's what you really want,

00:31:20 ◼   ► but since that wasn't available,

00:31:21 ◼   ► they're just pushing out a notification

00:31:24 ◼   ► every time somebody crosses home plate.

00:31:25 ◼   ► And so with live events, or live activities, stuff like that,

00:31:30 ◼   ► and there's probably lots of other data classes

00:31:32 ◼   ► that are like this, where you're really just monitoring

00:31:34 ◼   ► an event on your home screen, or on your lock screen,

00:31:38 ◼   ► you're not, it's not about notifications,

00:31:41 ◼   ► it's about monitoring the status of something.

00:31:45 ◼   ► So this is a great example of thinking about this

00:31:50 ◼   ► and looking at how people use and abuse notification center

00:31:53 ◼   ► and push notifications and say,

00:31:55 ◼   ► all right, we need to give them something

00:31:57 ◼   ► so they stop doing this 'cause nobody is happy here.

00:32:00 ◼   ► The apps aren't happy

00:32:01 ◼   ► that they're sending all those notifications.

00:32:02 ◼   ► The users aren't happy that they're getting them.

00:32:04 ◼   ► We're not happy that the notification center is full of junk.

00:32:07 ◼   ► Let's build something to solve this.

00:32:09 ◼   ► And that looks like what Live Activities is.

00:32:12 ◼   ► - Myke was in the Discord.

00:32:13 ◼   ► We stream live, we stream in this on live.

00:32:15 ◼   ► You can always check it out, relay.fm/live

00:32:18 ◼   ► if you're a Relay FM member,

00:32:20 ◼   ► especially if it's what upgrade plus,

00:32:21 ◼   ► you get access to our Discord, not especially, including,

00:32:24 ◼   ► but I'm just saying especially.

00:32:25 ◼   ► I've got a COVID brain, what do you want from me?

00:32:27 ◼   ► This is gonna be my excuse maybe for the next two weeks

00:32:30 ◼   ► or something, COVID brain, what do you want from me?

00:32:32 ◼   ► Myke says this would be cool for flights,

00:32:34 ◼   ► and I agree with that.

00:32:35 ◼   ► So like I use Flighty, I love Flighty.

00:32:36 ◼   ► - Oh, I love Flighty.

00:32:37 ◼   ► - But Flighty sends so many notifications.

00:32:39 ◼   ► - So many notifications.

00:32:40 ◼   ► - So many, and I want them.

00:32:42 ◼   ► - You can turn stuff off,

00:32:44 ◼   ► but it's just a lot of notifications, right?

00:32:47 ◼   ► And I would love one little live activity,

00:32:50 ◼   ► just gives me the information I need it when I need it.

00:32:52 ◼   ► - Right, 'cause like, hey Myke, it's at a different gate.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Hey Myke, it's gonna be one minute late.

00:32:56 ◼   ► - Did you know Jason, the flight plan has been filed?

00:32:58 ◼   ► - Hey Myke, it's gonna be one minute late again.

00:33:01 ◼   ► - I love the information.

00:33:02 ◼   ► - They brought the flight plan.

00:33:03 ◼   ► - It's just a lot of it.

00:33:04 ◼   ► - Oh, the equipment changed,

00:33:05 ◼   ► it's a slightly different flight,

00:33:06 ◼   ► I've updated the flight number.

00:33:07 ◼   ► Like, okay, you know, again, Flighty is amazing.

00:33:11 ◼   ► It really is amazing.

00:33:12 ◼   ► I love it a lot.

00:33:13 ◼   ► It's so friggin good.

00:33:14 ◼   ► But that's a great example that is not sports related of I just want the live information

00:33:20 ◼   ► about my flight, not 80 notifications about what's going on with my flight.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

00:33:27 ◼   ► The Lux screen.

00:33:28 ◼   ► That could be a good one.

00:33:29 ◼   ► Actually, you know, we were saying, you were saying about like with the Lux screen stuff,

00:33:32 ◼   ► you know, oh, this is building on from work a couple of years ago.

00:33:35 ◼   ► But something that has received year over year work is focus modes.

00:33:40 ◼   ► the lock screen stuff has been tied in together.

00:33:42 ◼   ► So in a way that different focus modes can set different home screens,

00:33:46 ◼   ► it can also set different lock screens, which is great.

00:33:49 ◼   ► And there were two features that we got.

00:33:51 ◼   ► One was my dream feature for focus modes, which is a vastly streamlined

00:33:56 ◼   ► setup process, which now gives you the option of everything opt in or

00:34:00 ◼   ► everything opt out, like just from the beginning.

00:34:03 ◼   ► So at the moment with focus modes, you have to say everything that you want to

00:34:08 ◼   ► to be added into that focus mode, right?

00:34:10 ◼   ► But now with focus modes, you can say,

00:34:13 ◼   ► hey, just remove these five apps from this focus mode.

00:34:16 ◼   ► So I think that's fantastic.

00:34:17 ◼   ► And also there's a thing called focus filters.

00:34:20 ◼   ► So if you're in a focus mode inside of applications,

00:34:23 ◼   ► it can give you different info.

00:34:25 ◼   ► So it showed like, for example, in messages,

00:34:27 ◼   ► if you're in a work focus,

00:34:28 ◼   ► you won't see any personal messages,

00:34:30 ◼   ► you just see your work related messages.

00:34:32 ◼   ► I don't know exactly how you tell messages,

00:34:35 ◼   ► what the work related messages are,

00:34:36 ◼   ► but I'm sure there's a way.

00:34:38 ◼   ► But the best thing about this,

00:34:39 ◼   ► and this is what I was hoping for,

00:34:40 ◼   ► but I didn't think I would get this soon,

00:34:42 ◼   ► is some APIs for focus modes.

00:34:45 ◼   ► So developers can build these focus filters

00:34:47 ◼   ► into their applications.

00:34:48 ◼   ► So for example, let's imagine Slack,

00:34:51 ◼   ► like Slack would add anything,

00:34:53 ◼   ► but let's imagine Slack, you know,

00:34:55 ◼   ► you could say like when I'm in this focus mode,

00:34:58 ◼   ► I only see this Slack, you know what I mean?

00:34:59 ◼   ► So I think that this is awesome.

00:35:01 ◼   ► Or email, right?

00:35:02 ◼   ► Like if I'm in work focus, I see my work email,

00:35:06 ◼   ► If I'm in personal focus, I see my personal email.

00:35:08 ◼   ► Stuff like that, man, I'm so excited

00:35:12 ◼   ► for these things to be added.

00:35:13 ◼   ► These are excellent, excellent additions

00:35:16 ◼   ► to a already pretty good system.

00:35:19 ◼   ► And I'm very, I mean, I haven't spoken to Gray yet,

00:35:21 ◼   ► but I can't wait to talk to Gray

00:35:23 ◼   ► and see what he thinks about this.

00:35:24 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure he's gonna be pretty jazzed.

00:35:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's good to see, you know,

00:35:30 ◼   ► we've said it so many times, but it is not,

00:35:34 ◼   ► The most dispiriting thing about being excited

00:35:36 ◼   ► about a new OS feature is when you get excited

00:35:40 ◼   ► but see all the places it should go

00:35:43 ◼   ► and then a year or two pass and there's no changes.

00:35:46 ◼   ► You're like, well, wait a second, do they think it's done?

00:35:49 ◼   ► 'Cause it was clear on day one that it needed to,

00:35:52 ◼   ► this was a good first try and there needed to be more.

00:35:54 ◼   ► And so for something like focus mode, it's actually,

00:35:56 ◼   ► and I wonder if some of that is either that it got traction

00:36:00 ◼   ► or that it's part of a bigger picture thing,

00:36:02 ◼   ► which I think if you look at the lock screen,

00:36:03 ◼   ► That may be what's really going on here

00:36:05 ◼   ► is this is part of a larger idea

00:36:08 ◼   ► where focus mode and customization and theming

00:36:13 ◼   ► and all of these things kind of can go together

00:36:16 ◼   ► in different ways where you're basically

00:36:18 ◼   ► setting different states of your device.

00:36:21 ◼   ► - I know for many years you have wanted

00:36:26 ◼   ► shared photo libraries.

00:36:28 ◼   ► - You know, there are these things

00:36:32 ◼   ► that we stopped talking about

00:36:34 ◼   ► because they're never gonna happen.

00:36:35 ◼   ► - There's a bunch of things in this keynote

00:36:37 ◼   ► that I was like,

00:36:38 ◼   ► we stopped talking about this a long time ago.

00:36:40 ◼   ► - They settled a lot of family business today.

00:36:41 ◼   ► Yeah, they did.

00:36:42 ◼   ► - When we talk about here are the things we didn't pick.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Like they're always in the list because we're like,

00:36:47 ◼   ► well, we picked these 20 times before.

00:36:49 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:36:51 ◼   ► So this is where we get iCloud shared photo library.

00:36:54 ◼   ► And I talked to the photos team like five years ago

00:36:59 ◼   ► and said, "You know, families take pictures."

00:37:04 ◼   ► Like my wife has got her account and I've got my account

00:37:06 ◼   ► and we take pictures.

00:37:07 ◼   ► And we have to like every year have the ceremonial merging

00:37:11 ◼   ► of the importing of the photos from one person to the other.

00:37:14 ◼   ► And then with the kids it's like,

00:37:17 ◼   ► do you wanna share some photos or not?

00:37:19 ◼   ► And they said, "We understand the issues.

00:37:21 ◼   ► "The problem is how you solve it, how you implement it."

00:37:24 ◼   ► And I always felt like that was right.

00:37:28 ◼   ► It is complicated.

00:37:29 ◼   ► It's not as easy as just saying you turn it on

00:37:32 ◼   ► and everybody, every photo you take is shared

00:37:35 ◼   ► among your family, right?

00:37:36 ◼   ► 'Cause you don't want that.

00:37:37 ◼   ► But so much time passed where they didn't address this

00:37:41 ◼   ► and it seems like such a fundamental issue.

00:37:43 ◼   ► So, you know, I laughed when the problem

00:37:48 ◼   ► was described on stage.

00:37:49 ◼   ► I think that was Craig.

00:37:51 ◼   ► And he was like, you know, sometimes different people

00:37:54 ◼   ► in a family take photos and they wanna share them.

00:37:56 ◼   ► I'm like, yes, Craig, yes, we know.

00:37:58 ◼   ► - Did you know about this?

00:37:59 ◼   ► - Did you know that this is the case?

00:38:01 ◼   ► So it was one of those,

00:38:03 ◼   ► it actually felt very infomercial like to me,

00:38:05 ◼   ► it's like, you know, sometimes I just can't cut this tomato

00:38:09 ◼   ► and it really bothers me, I need help.

00:38:10 ◼   ► It's like, here's a sharp knife.

00:38:12 ◼   ► Hey, thanks, that'll, right?

00:38:14 ◼   ► It's like, yes, we know the problem, what is your solution?

00:38:17 ◼   ► And the answer was iCloud shared photo library.

00:38:19 ◼   ► It's like a, it's another photo library

00:38:24 ◼   ► aside your user photo library.

00:38:27 ◼   ► and you can put things into it.

00:38:29 ◼   ► And what I like about it is it does address

00:38:31 ◼   ► all of those issues, which is you can choose

00:38:33 ◼   ► when to start from.

00:38:35 ◼   ► So you can say like, before this date,

00:38:37 ◼   ► where I didn't know we were doing this,

00:38:39 ◼   ► I'm not gonna share those photos.

00:38:41 ◼   ► You can choose what you share.

00:38:43 ◼   ► It's got some intelligent things like saying,

00:38:48 ◼   ► when I'm in the vicinity of the other people in my family,

00:38:51 ◼   ► those events will be shared.

00:38:53 ◼   ► You can do it that way.

00:38:54 ◼   ► You can add things to the library easily.

00:38:57 ◼   ► You can set them when you're taking the pictures.

00:38:59 ◼   ► You can set the status to whether it's shared or not.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Just a whole bunch of different ways to do it.

00:39:06 ◼   ► And I'm sure that there will be,

00:39:10 ◼   ► like it's complicated.

00:39:11 ◼   ► I'm sure there'll be some story at some point,

00:39:13 ◼   ► which is like some teenager took a selfie,

00:39:18 ◼   ► like a nude selfie and it went in the family photo library

00:39:20 ◼   ► and oh boy, they got in trouble, right?

00:39:23 ◼   ► That's gonna happen.

00:39:24 ◼   ► But the fact is, just the fundamental of parents,

00:39:29 ◼   ► couples who want to, who share their photo library,

00:39:35 ◼   ► except they are incapable of it, and being able to do it.

00:39:40 ◼   ► This is a great feature, I wish it had come five years ago.

00:39:44 ◼   ► I'm happy that they've done it,

00:39:45 ◼   ► and that they have taken care in doing it,

00:39:47 ◼   ► because I think just a blanket sharing is not good enough.

00:39:51 ◼   ► Or even a, when your face shows up.

00:39:54 ◼   ► That's one feature, but I think for some companies,

00:39:57 ◼   ► that's the solution is if we detect the photos of people,

00:40:00 ◼   ► we share that photo and it's like,

00:40:02 ◼   ► it needs to be more than that.

00:40:03 ◼   ► There needs to be more user control

00:40:04 ◼   ► and there needs to be more intelligence to it.

00:40:06 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to checking this feature out,

00:40:09 ◼   ► but I'm even more than that looking forward

00:40:11 ◼   ► to no longer having the ceremonial emerging

00:40:15 ◼   ► of the photo libraries when we're making our calendars

00:40:18 ◼   ► at the end of the year.

00:40:19 ◼   ► - Messages got a bunch of stuff

00:40:23 ◼   ► And the first three features they said were like the most requested three features and every single one of them I cheered

00:40:29 ◼   ► Editing of messages. Sure. Amazing

00:40:33 ◼   ► Retracting of messages. Mm-hmm. Also amazing

00:40:37 ◼   ► Markers on red. Come on. Come on Craig. You're spoiling us

00:40:42 ◼   ► I have wanted a markers on red feature for a long time

00:40:46 ◼   ► Friends of the show Matt Bischoff wrote a great article about like a blog post about this once that it's been in my notes to

00:40:53 ◼   ► to talk about on the show for a while,

00:40:55 ◼   ► but I never got to it because honestly,

00:40:57 ◼   ► I didn't think there was going to be any speed needed.

00:41:02 ◼   ► - And there's the cultural issue, right,

00:41:04 ◼   ► of like if you're using read receipts or read receipts,

00:41:08 ◼   ► however that's pronounced, we debated that.

00:41:11 ◼   ► If you're using that feature and something is marked as read

00:41:14 ◼   ► sometimes you haven't read it

00:41:17 ◼   ► and you want to mark it as unread again.

00:41:19 ◼   ► I don't know, does it mark it as unread on the other end too?

00:41:21 ◼   ► - But I kinda don't care at the same time.

00:41:23 ◼   ► This is for me, right?

00:41:25 ◼   ► - This is like a email message, right?

00:41:27 ◼   ► It's the same thing.

00:41:28 ◼   ► It's like, no, I need to read this later.

00:41:29 ◼   ► I haven't read it now.

00:41:30 ◼   ► Don't mark, don't put the little dot next to it.

00:41:32 ◼   ► Or don't take the dot away, put the dot back,

00:41:35 ◼   ► and so you can put the dot back.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - Well, sometimes I accidentally open a message

00:41:38 ◼   ► when I just, you know, and I just wanted to say,

00:41:42 ◼   ► what is it, it's not 3D Touch, whatever it's called now,

00:41:44 ◼   ► Peek and Pop, I don't even remember what the name of it is.

00:41:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:41:46 ◼   ► - But I do that to messages,

00:41:47 ◼   ► and sometimes I accidentally then open the message,

00:41:50 ◼   ► and I wanna deal with it later on.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I think this is just like a little thing,

00:41:54 ◼   ► but just awesome.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Also a great feature, I think,

00:41:57 ◼   ► 'cause I was talking about this a bunch

00:41:59 ◼   ► on connected recently, we were talking about SharePlay.

00:42:01 ◼   ► 'Cause I was convinced nobody was using SharePlay.

00:42:03 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, yeah. - And I asked connected

00:42:05 ◼   ► listeners to write in and tell me

00:42:06 ◼   ► what they use SharePlay for.

00:42:07 ◼   ► And I got loads of people writing in.

00:42:09 ◼   ► But the big thing that I was saying is like,

00:42:11 ◼   ► so much of this stuff sounds great,

00:42:13 ◼   ► but I don't wanna have to be on a FaceTime call

00:42:15 ◼   ► with someone constantly.

00:42:16 ◼   ► So they added SharePlay to messages.

00:42:19 ◼   ► - To messages. - Yes.

00:42:20 ◼   ► - Genius, this should have been in the first version.

00:42:22 ◼   ► - Because maybe what we wanna do is watch a movie

00:42:25 ◼   ► with a friend and have a little text chat going on.

00:42:29 ◼   ► But I don't need to have voice or video,

00:42:31 ◼   ► I just have a little text chat.

00:42:32 ◼   ► - I just don't need it.

00:42:33 ◼   ► So this is superb.

00:42:35 ◼   ► Like this, for me, now I'm like,

00:42:37 ◼   ► "Hmm, I actually might use this feature now."

00:42:39 ◼   ► Because like, this is what I wanted.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Like, if me and Jason wanted to watch a movie together,

00:42:44 ◼   ► like say we do a mic at the movies, right?

00:42:46 ◼   ► Like wouldn't it be fun if we watched it together?

00:42:48 ◼   ► "Yes, but does Jason need to see me for two hours

00:42:50 ◼   ► "while I'm watching the movie?"

00:42:52 ◼   ► He doesn't need to do that. - Definitely not.

00:42:52 ◼   ► - That's not necessary.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Definitely not, right?

00:42:55 ◼   ► He's looking at me right now.

00:42:56 ◼   ► It's a sorry state, you know?

00:42:57 ◼   ► - This is unnecessary.

00:42:58 ◼   ► - He doesn't want this,

00:42:59 ◼   ► but he's got a video of me right now.

00:43:01 ◼   ► We hadn't mentioned this.

00:43:02 ◼   ► I can see Jason and he can see me.

00:43:04 ◼   ► My view is that's exciting.

00:43:06 ◼   ► - You've got some art,

00:43:08 ◼   ► some hotel room art on the wall behind you.

00:43:10 ◼   ► Looks kind of like a coronavirus, gotta be honest.

00:43:12 ◼   ► - I mean, this is how they know.

00:43:13 ◼   ► This is the mark on the wall that they put in.

00:43:15 ◼   ► - Oh, I see.

00:43:16 ◼   ► in there once you once you test positive. I'm wearing a dongle town t-shirt though so you know.

00:43:20 ◼   ► That's good. I like it you're flying the flag it's it's good. You know what we didn't get is uh

00:43:26 ◼   ► improvements to tap backs. No I was hoping it was going to be one of those things that people were

00:43:30 ◼   ► like hey it's in there but I haven't seen anybody talk about that. I wanted it. I'm glad they're

00:43:35 ◼   ► paying attention to messages I really am I just wanted there to be more uh tap back options.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Collaboration on documents in messages. I don't understand this feature yet like I feel like this

00:43:46 ◼   ► this is one of those things where I need to kind of

00:43:48 ◼   ► understand what this means, you know, that like--

00:43:49 ◼   ► - I don't know if anybody's gonna use this feature or not,

00:43:51 ◼   ► but it's an interesting idea.

00:43:52 ◼   ► The idea is that if you are collaborating using any of the

00:43:55 ◼   ► kind of ways you can do document collaboration,

00:43:58 ◼   ► like in Pages or Keynote or places like that, right?

00:44:02 ◼   ► And that's all, you've already got that concept in iCloud.

00:44:05 ◼   ► What this basically does is say you can tie a messages thread

00:44:13 ◼   ► to the participants in the document collaboration.

00:44:16 ◼   ► So it's kind of, think of it as this is the Google Docs chat.

00:44:20 ◼   ► I think it's kind of like that.

00:44:22 ◼   ► It's a way for you to tie two different parts of Apple's

00:44:26 ◼   ► kind of communication infrastructure into one

00:44:29 ◼   ► or tie them together is how I read that.

00:44:33 ◼   ► - I did like the demo when everyone was on FaceTime

00:44:36 ◼   ► and they were like, they're moving from app to app.

00:44:39 ◼   ► I thought that was kind of cool.

00:44:41 ◼   ► I don't really work with people like that anymore, but I know people do.

00:44:46 ◼   ► And maybe occasionally I would, you know?

00:44:49 ◼   ► I just thought it was a nice demo.

00:44:52 ◼   ► You know, like, "Hey, we're on the pages.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Oh, now we're going to go to the website and here's some more tabs."

00:44:57 ◼   ► It was a nice demo, right?

00:44:59 ◼   ► But this is one of those things that unless a lot of third-party developers add it, Google,

00:45:06 ◼   ► Microsoft, right?

00:45:07 ◼   ► if they don't add this feature,

00:45:09 ◼   ► it's gonna be hard to get everyone on board, right?

00:45:12 ◼   ► This is awesome if all of your work is done in Apple apps.

00:45:15 ◼   ► But like-- - Yeah, it feels like

00:45:16 ◼   ► an iWork feature.

00:45:18 ◼   ► - And my question genuinely is,

00:45:20 ◼   ► I don't even think Apple will work this way, right?

00:45:24 ◼   ► Does the corporate Apple communication

00:45:26 ◼   ► happen inside of messages?

00:45:27 ◼   ► I actually doubt it, you know? - I don't know, yeah.

00:45:30 ◼   ► - So this is one of those ideal world kind of situations,

00:45:34 ◼   ► but in an ideal world, it looks great.

00:45:37 ◼   ► Wallet got a bunch of time and actually it was kind of cool.

00:45:41 ◼   ► Again, I'm expecting a lot of this is probably US only

00:45:43 ◼   ► for now, but we'll find out.

00:45:45 ◼   ► They showed up a bunch of new partners

00:45:47 ◼   ► for the tap to pay feature and that's coming soon.

00:45:49 ◼   ► Apple pay later was introduced.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I was not expecting this to happen at WWDC really,

00:45:55 ◼   ► but it seems like they've done a great job of it, right?

00:45:57 ◼   ► Like developers, merchants do nothing.

00:45:58 ◼   ► You pay four payments and it looks like Apple just handles

00:46:02 ◼   ► the whole shebang like, and wherever you pay for something,

00:46:05 ◼   ► you could do this.

00:46:06 ◼   ► I thought to myself, I would use this.

00:46:09 ◼   ► Like why not?

00:46:10 ◼   ► I would use this feature.

00:46:12 ◼   ► I would split some payment purchases over four months.

00:46:15 ◼   ► Why not?

00:46:16 ◼   ► Let's just go for it.

00:46:17 ◼   ► - It's not over four months though.

00:46:17 ◼   ► It's over six weeks.

00:46:19 ◼   ► That's the thing is it's not four payments over four months.

00:46:21 ◼   ► It's four payments over six weeks.

00:46:23 ◼   ► - But still, that's the best part of two months, right?

00:46:25 ◼   ► At least two paydays for a lot of people.

00:46:27 ◼   ► It seems like one of those features

00:46:30 ◼   ► where there is no downside to me

00:46:32 ◼   ► as long as I know I can afford it, right?

00:46:35 ◼   ► because that can be the problem with some of these features.

00:46:37 ◼   ► And this is another one like Apple Card.

00:46:40 ◼   ► I am intrigued to see how does Apple handle

00:46:43 ◼   ► the I'm not gonna pay you part, right?

00:46:44 ◼   ► Like that's gonna be really intriguing

00:46:46 ◼   ► because this is Apple again,

00:46:48 ◼   ► and more than Apple Card it seems,

00:46:50 ◼   ► getting into this world, right?

00:46:52 ◼   ► Like this is from everything we've heard

00:46:54 ◼   ► of the acquisitions and all that kind of stuff.

00:46:56 ◼   ► This seems to be much more Apple doing this

00:47:00 ◼   ► than Goldman Sachs or whatever, right?

00:47:02 ◼   ► So I'm intrigued to see how this goes.

00:47:04 ◼   ► Apple Pay order tracking, that's cool.

00:47:07 ◼   ► You know, why not?

00:47:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's like an API.

00:47:13 ◼   ► I guess they said they're gonna tie it to Shopify,

00:47:15 ◼   ► but it's the idea that if you buy something using Apple Pay,

00:47:18 ◼   ► you can look up the order information using, you know,

00:47:23 ◼   ► by setting up something with an API to do that,

00:47:26 ◼   ► which is interesting.

00:47:27 ◼   ► They want everything to,

00:47:28 ◼   ► they wanna bring everything into the wallet there.

00:47:31 ◼   ► - There's sharing of keys.

00:47:33 ◼   ► So like house keys, hotel keys, like the digital versions.

00:47:36 ◼   ► That was cool.

00:47:37 ◼   ► And I like the ID verification thing.

00:47:39 ◼   ► So where the ID card thing is supported,

00:47:43 ◼   ► you could use ID verification inside of apps

00:47:45 ◼   ► without needing to give a bunch of information.

00:47:47 ◼   ► So like if you were buying alcohol,

00:47:49 ◼   ► you could verify your identification with face ID

00:47:54 ◼   ► and it would just tell the app, yeah, you're old enough.

00:47:56 ◼   ► I thought it was nice.

00:47:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think some of that is a messaging thing

00:48:01 ◼   ► that they wanna be clear about.

00:48:02 ◼   ► 'Cause when Apple announced this, because they said,

00:48:05 ◼   ► you know, it's in two states.

00:48:06 ◼   ► It's like Maryland and Arizona now are using this,

00:48:09 ◼   ► but that a bunch more are coming, 11 more are coming.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And everybody's like, "You should never,

00:48:17 ◼   ► you know, share your phone with the cops or whatever."

00:48:21 ◼   ► And it's like, that's not how this works.

00:48:23 ◼   ► It's an NFC transaction.

00:48:26 ◼   ► So you're tapping and presenting them with information.

00:48:28 ◼   ► And the information itself is privacy protected.

00:48:31 ◼   ► it's only giving the information that is required in the context.

00:48:34 ◼   ► So when they mention it here,

00:48:36 ◼   ► this is them sort of trying to educate people about the idea

00:48:39 ◼   ► that when you're asked for your ID,

00:48:42 ◼   ► when you're buying alcohol,

00:48:43 ◼   ► your digital ID isn't going to give them information about you,

00:48:46 ◼   ► including even your birth date.

00:48:48 ◼   ► All it will do is say, "Yes, I can verify this person

00:48:52 ◼   ► is over the age that you're asking about."

00:48:54 ◼   ► That's it. -Mm-hmm.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Which is good. I think that's great.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Like, you know, we've all done this more these days,

00:49:01 ◼   ► right, verification for things using apps and stuff like that.

00:49:06 ◼   ► You know, like this place that I'm staying in right now,

00:49:09 ◼   ► I had to do like a face scan verification, upload my possible image to them

00:49:14 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff, because there's no like check in desk.

00:49:17 ◼   ► It's like a service department complex.

00:49:20 ◼   ► So like there was nobody to check my ID or whatever or like,

00:49:23 ◼   ► you know, bank applications, things like that.

00:49:26 ◼   ► Wouldn't it be way better if I never need to give anybody that information now

00:49:30 ◼   ► and just my iPhone can just be like,

00:49:32 ◼   ► yep, he's good, you know, I think that's awesome.

00:49:36 ◼   ► The Home app, oh man, was I happy.

00:49:40 ◼   ► Full redesign of the Home app.

00:49:41 ◼   ► It's like they listened to everything I had to say

00:49:45 ◼   ► about what I think is wrong with the Home app.

00:49:47 ◼   ► - Last week we said you gotta redo the Home app

00:49:50 ◼   ► and they said okay, well, we'll work on that

00:49:52 ◼   ► in the next week and we'll get something

00:49:54 ◼   ► cooked right away. - Yeah, it's incredible

00:49:55 ◼   ► how fast they work, you know what I'm saying?

00:49:57 ◼   ► - Very impressive, they burned the midnight oil there

00:50:00 ◼   ► to do the, yes, full redesign.

00:50:03 ◼   ► - One page for all the devices and rooms.

00:50:05 ◼   ► That's the big thing I wanted.

00:50:06 ◼   ► Get rid of the idea of a page for every room.

00:50:09 ◼   ► Just show me everything with filters

00:50:11 ◼   ► that they had at the top.

00:50:12 ◼   ► So you can tap a button for lights and I'm like,

00:50:14 ◼   ► ah, that's great, super good, I can't wait for this.

00:50:17 ◼   ► And they spent a lot of time on Matter, right?

00:50:19 ◼   ► - They did, they did.

00:50:20 ◼   ► That's for those of us who are not avidly following

00:50:22 ◼   ► the Matter Alliance.

00:50:24 ◼   ► They explained what the Matter Alliance was

00:50:26 ◼   ► and why it matters.

00:50:29 ◼   ► Second WWDC in a row where they've had to explain the matter alliance. Jason,

00:50:33 ◼   ► little prediction now.

00:50:35 ◼   ► Will we get to a third WWDC where apple has to explain the matter alliance about

00:50:39 ◼   ► it having launched? Yes or no? No, no.

00:50:42 ◼   ► You think it's going to come before?

00:50:44 ◼   ► I think we've had the year delay on matter and now it'll actually show up.

00:50:48 ◼   ► I hope you're right.

00:50:49 ◼   ► Can you undo your Christmas tree? You're going to get a matter under your

00:50:51 ◼   ► Christmas tree. Congratulations. It's a matter.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Before we move on, cause we've got a lot to cover.

00:50:57 ◼   ► We're still not going to get to everything. There was, you know,

00:50:59 ◼   ► You get two little things that I've been seeing people tweet about.

00:51:03 ◼   ► iOS 16 adds landscape face ID to iPhone.

00:51:08 ◼   ► So that's coming to some iPhone models.

00:51:11 ◼   ► So you'll be able to get-- iPhone 12 and 13 is limited, too.

00:51:17 ◼   ► So you won't have to have the same orientation anymore.

00:51:20 ◼   ► I think that's really good.

00:51:22 ◼   ► And then also there's haptic vibration, or tap-ticks,

00:51:26 ◼   ► has been added to the keyboard on iOS.

00:51:29 ◼   ► - Interesting.

00:51:30 ◼   ► - So as you type, it goes like,

00:51:32 ◼   ► (mimics typing)

00:51:34 ◼   ► A lot of Android phones have done this

00:51:36 ◼   ► and I actually find it quite satisfying.

00:51:38 ◼   ► And I'm pretty excited to see what it feels like

00:51:41 ◼   ► with Apple's great Taptic Engine, you know?

00:51:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

00:51:45 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by Bombus.

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00:53:20 ◼   ► Oh baby, iPadOS.

00:53:23 ◼   ► - Here we go.

00:53:24 ◼   ► - Oh baby. - Here we go.

00:53:25 ◼   ► - They left it lost and I was like,

00:53:28 ◼   ► are they gonna do it though?

00:53:29 ◼   ► Are they actually gonna do it?

00:53:30 ◼   ► - I knew it and you know how I knew it?

00:53:32 ◼   ► I knew it because they announced a feature for Mac OS

00:53:36 ◼   ► called Stage Manager.

00:53:38 ◼   ► And I turned to Dan Morin who was sitting next to me

00:53:41 ◼   ► and I said, that's the iPad feature.

00:53:45 ◼   ► And sitting in front of me was Steven

00:53:48 ◼   ► and Sparky, and they both turned around

00:53:52 ◼   ► and looked at me and nodded, and we're all like,

00:53:54 ◼   ► yeah, we know, we know, I see what you're doing there.

00:53:56 ◼   ► - Steven turns to you and says, that's the iPad feature,

00:53:58 ◼   ► and then David turns to Steven and says, that's the iPad,

00:54:01 ◼   ► you know, it's like a little chain going on over there.

00:54:03 ◼   ► - No, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:54:04 ◼   ► we're getting what you're putting down,

00:54:06 ◼   ► and because it just was like, this is interesting

00:54:10 ◼   ► that they did this in Mac OS, and I think as a Mac user,

00:54:14 ◼   ► watch out big column pitch idea coming down your way.

00:54:19 ◼   ► I like to look for column ideas.

00:54:21 ◼   ► The failure of full screen mode.

00:54:24 ◼   ► I know some people like full screen mode on the Mac,

00:54:27 ◼   ► but I think it's kind of a failure

00:54:29 ◼   ► because so many of the great things about the Mac

00:54:34 ◼   ► are about multi-layered windows.

00:54:37 ◼   ► And so even when I use something like Logic

00:54:39 ◼   ► where I'm almost always using it in full screen,

00:54:41 ◼   ► I'm grabbing files from the desktop and stuff

00:54:43 ◼   ► and you're in there and you're like,

00:54:44 ◼   ► oh no, now I have to get out.

00:54:46 ◼   ► - Grab the size thing, just shrink it down

00:54:48 ◼   ► 'cause when I just see something else for a minute,

00:54:50 ◼   ► like so for example,

00:54:51 ◼   ► when I'm putting in the chapters for this show,

00:54:53 ◼   ► I kind of just shrink the logic window a bit

00:54:57 ◼   ► and move the Safari window over so I can see Google Docs,

00:55:00 ◼   ► so I can just make sure I got the chapters.

00:55:02 ◼   ► It's just that flexibility, right?

00:55:04 ◼   ► - Right, and full screen mode is this very strict thing,

00:55:08 ◼   ► which is like, no, it's one window and that's it.

00:55:12 ◼   ► And so they do stage manager and I'm thinking, okay,

00:55:14 ◼   ► this is, not only do I think this is gonna be

00:55:17 ◼   ► an iPad feature, but I also think that this is Apple saying,

00:55:21 ◼   ► full screen mode's not quite right.

00:55:23 ◼   ► And the fact that they did the demo and they said,

00:55:25 ◼   ► ah, but what about your desktop?

00:55:26 ◼   ► Well, click out on the desktop and then you go away

00:55:29 ◼   ► and you just drag it in and drag it over.

00:55:31 ◼   ► And I'm like, okay, this is trying to find a better way

00:55:35 ◼   ► to do something that's full, it's full screen-ish,

00:55:38 ◼   ► but it's also, if you want it to be,

00:55:40 ◼   ► it's multi windows in a set together.

00:55:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's more like focused than full screen, right?

00:55:47 ◼   ► But like full screen was supposed to be,

00:55:49 ◼   ► hey, you're focused on one thing, but like, no.

00:55:52 ◼   ► - Or like spaces, except it's in one space.

00:55:54 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - And you can feel the different things.

00:55:57 ◼   ► - It's like if you took full screen mode

00:55:59 ◼   ► and iPad multitasking and spaces and mission control

00:56:02 ◼   ► and put them all together,

00:56:04 ◼   ► stage manager pops out, right?

00:56:06 ◼   ► - And stage manager is a brand new thing and it's weird

00:56:09 ◼   ► and I'm not entirely, this is one of those features, Myke,

00:56:11 ◼   ► where I look at it and I think,

00:56:13 ◼   ► I bet it doesn't look like this in September.

00:56:16 ◼   ► I bet they make changes based on feedback.

00:56:19 ◼   ► Like Safari last year where it's gonna be like,

00:56:21 ◼   ► some of this stuff is like, why does it look like that?

00:56:24 ◼   ► It looks a little weird. - What I'm gonna say,

00:56:26 ◼   ► the way that those apps look on the side, I was like,

00:56:29 ◼   ► from the people who gave you CoverFlow and desktop stacks,

00:56:34 ◼   ► here comes Stage Manager.

00:56:36 ◼   ► There's something about it where it's like, it looks old.

00:56:40 ◼   ► - And in Superman 2, right, or Superman,

00:56:42 ◼   ► where they put the criminals in the Phantom Zone

00:56:45 ◼   ► and it's like a two-dimensional thing.

00:56:46 ◼   ► It's like that, your windows are trapped

00:56:49 ◼   ► in the Phantom Zone on the side of the screen

00:56:50 ◼   ► until you bring them back.

00:56:52 ◼   ► Anyway, so they do stage manager and I'm like,

00:56:53 ◼   ► well, this is an intriguing Mac thing.

00:56:55 ◼   ► - James Thompson in the Discord,

00:56:56 ◼   ► you can turn off the side windows.

00:56:58 ◼   ► - Oh, you can turn off the side windows, interesting.

00:57:00 ◼   ► - I don't know what's left,

00:57:03 ◼   ► but maybe it's just like, I don't know, icons or something?

00:57:06 ◼   ► - I don't know, yeah, well, we'll see.

00:57:09 ◼   ► 'Cause we haven't used any of this stuff yet, of course.

00:57:11 ◼   ► Anyway, the other big story though is stage managers like,

00:57:14 ◼   ► "Oh, this is also the solution to the iPad, isn't it?"

00:57:16 ◼   ► And it is, and it's more than I thought, Myke.

00:57:19 ◼   ► It's more than I thought, because it's not just

00:57:22 ◼   ► multi-windowing mode or tiling or something like that.

00:57:28 ◼   ► It's because Windows can have buddies in things.

00:57:33 ◼   ► You can say, "I want these two things together."

00:57:35 ◼   ► And it kind of, it doesn't quite tile them

00:57:38 ◼   ► 'cause it's like overlapping, but also kind of tiled.

00:57:43 ◼   ► It's really interesting.

00:57:44 ◼   ► And I don't know whether it's gonna be great

00:57:45 ◼   ► or maddening in practice,

00:57:47 ◼   ► but the idea is that you can have floating windows

00:57:50 ◼   ► and you can resize them on iOS

00:57:53 ◼   ► and you can have multiple windows from the same app

00:57:56 ◼   ► or from different apps and they all live together

00:57:58 ◼   ► - It looks great, man. - Up to four at a time.

00:58:00 ◼   ► - It looks so good. - And you can switch

00:58:01 ◼   ► between the different sets.

00:58:03 ◼   ► And if you're gonna do that,

00:58:04 ◼   ► we have to say the other part of it,

00:58:06 ◼   ► which is if you're gonna do that,

00:58:07 ◼   ► well guess what, you can plug in your display

00:58:09 ◼   ► and do it on a big external display

00:58:11 ◼   ► and have four apps or four windows on that display

00:58:14 ◼   ► and four different ones on your iPad screen

00:58:17 ◼   ► and it all still works.

00:58:18 ◼   ► And that is-- - It is a thing.

00:58:19 ◼   ► They went the whole way. - More than I ever expected.

00:58:21 ◼   ► - They went the whole way.

00:58:23 ◼   ► And I can't believe that they was like,

00:58:25 ◼   ► for so many years, right,

00:58:27 ◼   ► we're going back like five years or something.

00:58:30 ◼   ► Oh no, no, no, two.

00:58:32 ◼   ► And it may be a little one on the side.

00:58:33 ◼   ► Let's not get mad about this.

00:58:36 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden they're like,

00:58:38 ◼   ► "Hey, what about freely resizing, overlapping app pairs?

00:58:42 ◼   ► You can hook up to external display.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Hey, do you want scaling?

00:58:46 ◼   ► We can make your whole iPad screen smaller if you want?"

00:58:50 ◼   ► Like, yeah, I'll have all of it.

00:58:51 ◼   ► - We heard you like Windows,

00:58:52 ◼   ► so we got you a lot of Windows.

00:58:54 ◼   ► - It's wild.

00:58:55 ◼   ► I can't wait to play with this.

00:58:57 ◼   ► - And the thing that I think is the key

00:59:00 ◼   ► for probably people at Apple and for iPad users

00:59:03 ◼   ► to get over the hump is,

00:59:04 ◼   ► it's a feature you turn on in Control Center,

00:59:07 ◼   ► so if you don't wanna see it, you never have to see it.

00:59:11 ◼   ► Which is good, because you need the iPad

00:59:13 ◼   ► to have a fundamentally usable single window mode.

00:59:17 ◼   ► - It's Mark Gurman's pro mode, right?

00:59:19 ◼   ► - It is pro mode.

00:59:21 ◼   ► - Because you can still use all the other stuff.

00:59:23 ◼   ► It's all still there.

00:59:24 ◼   ► They didn't get rid of anything.

00:59:25 ◼   ► Nothing's been replaced, but you can now go into this extra special mode, right?

00:59:31 ◼   ► Like, and I'm like, yeah, this is fantastic.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Uh, I can't wait to play with it.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Um, I have an iPad air now because I don't have an M one iPad.

00:59:39 ◼   ► Ah, yes.

00:59:40 ◼   ► And this is an M one feature.

00:59:41 ◼   ► There's a best buy not too far.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Um, my wonderful wife, Adina, I would say is just taking the most care of me.

00:59:48 ◼   ► She went out today and she got me an iPad.

00:59:49 ◼   ► So that's going to be what I'm going to do for the next couple of days.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Cause I ain't got nothing else to do, Jason.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Just sitting here in this friggin' hotel room.

00:59:57 ◼   ► So I'm gonna-- - Do you have a keyboard

00:59:58 ◼   ► for it? (laughs)

00:59:59 ◼   ► - I actually, I brought my 11-inch iPad Pro

01:00:04 ◼   ► because I was thinking, oh, I expect

01:00:06 ◼   ► they're gonna do something.

01:00:07 ◼   ► What I didn't think about was like my 2018 iPad Pro.

01:00:11 ◼   ► That's not good, that's not good enough beef.

01:00:14 ◼   ► You know, so at least I got the Magic Keyboard.

01:00:17 ◼   ► So got that. - That's good.

01:00:19 ◼   ► - 'Cause I can just switch those over.

01:00:21 ◼   ► And I'll be playing around with it.

01:00:24 ◼   ► You're gonna be power sliding through windows and apps.

01:00:26 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:00:27 ◼   ► Okay, so here's a thing that I feel like

01:00:29 ◼   ► I don't have a grasp of yet.

01:00:32 ◼   ► And I think it might be for a reason.

01:00:34 ◼   ► This thing called desktop class.

01:00:36 ◼   ► - Desktop class, yeah.

01:00:37 ◼   ► - It seems like what they did was like,

01:00:39 ◼   ► this feels to me very much like a pro workflow group exercise.

01:00:44 ◼   ► - I don't even think it's pro workflow group.

01:00:47 ◼   ► So here's what I think, and I don't know this for sure,

01:00:49 ◼   ► but what it sounds like to me is somebody went

01:00:53 ◼   ► to all of the app groups at Apple and said,

01:00:57 ◼   ► do us a favor, think about your app in an iPad context

01:01:03 ◼   ► and think about your app in a Mac context.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Are there things that you're withholding on the iPad?

01:01:09 ◼   ► And if there are, consider whether that makes sense, right?

01:01:16 ◼   ► 'Cause it wasn't a edict that all features on the Mac

01:01:21 ◼   ► had to be on the iPad.

01:01:22 ◼   ► And the iPad apps, the problem is that iPad apps

01:01:25 ◼   ► were originally iPhone apps.

01:01:27 ◼   ► And so they made lots of decisions to simplify them

01:01:29 ◼   ► because a little phone is not the best place

01:01:32 ◼   ► for implementing every single little fiddly feature

01:01:36 ◼   ► of a Mac, right?

01:01:38 ◼   ► But the iPad is different.

01:01:44 ◼   ► And yet, and I know I've experienced this before

01:01:47 ◼   ► with things like numbers or Keynote,

01:01:50 ◼   ► where you say, oh, they use the same file format

01:01:54 ◼   ► and they sync over iCloud,

01:01:55 ◼   ► but there's this one thing that I can't do on the iPad.

01:01:59 ◼   ► I can only do this one sometimes esoteric feature

01:02:03 ◼   ► on the Mac 'cause it's just not there.

01:02:06 ◼   ► And there's no, and why?

01:02:08 ◼   ► 'Cause the iPad is perfectly capable.

01:02:10 ◼   ► So it sounds to me like basically they went to everybody

01:02:13 ◼   ► who has apps at Apple and said,

01:02:16 ◼   ► could you think about this one

01:02:19 ◼   ► and make a concerted effort to get your iPad app

01:02:22 ◼   ► to have those features if they make sense on iPad.

01:02:24 ◼   ► And I'm sure not all Mac features make sense on iPad,

01:02:28 ◼   ► but it sounds to me like this was more about

01:02:30 ◼   ► an effort to get everybody to try and make the iPad apps

01:02:36 ◼   ► feel more capable like their Mac equivalents

01:02:40 ◼   ► after the natural evolutionary process

01:02:44 ◼   ► led them to not quite be all the way there.

01:02:47 ◼   ► So they did a big scrolling list.

01:02:50 ◼   ► It seems kind of scattershot,

01:02:52 ◼   ► but that seems to be what it really was.

01:02:54 ◼   ► It's more like, hey everybody,

01:02:56 ◼   ► think about this one for this release.

01:02:58 ◼   ► This is one of the things we'd like you to do

01:02:59 ◼   ► for this next app release, next OS release,

01:03:02 ◼   ► is get your app's iPad versions

01:03:05 ◼   ► to have as much functionality that's similar to the Mac

01:03:10 ◼   ► as makes sense, right?

01:03:11 ◼   ► It's not forced, but that makes sense for the iPad.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And we'll see what that means in practice.

01:03:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, it's just that I need to,

01:03:20 ◼   ► it felt like there's a lot of stuff, right?

01:03:22 ◼   ► Little bits and bobs, I'm intrigued

01:03:24 ◼   ► to what that feels like. - Yeah, I think it's,

01:03:25 ◼   ► I think it's literally, they built this thing for iOS

01:03:28 ◼   ► and eventually it became an iPad app

01:03:29 ◼   ► and they had like, there were features that they were like,

01:03:31 ◼   ► well, that's too complicated, so they left them off

01:03:33 ◼   ► and they never put them back

01:03:34 ◼   ► and they never really thought about it

01:03:36 ◼   ► and they're like, oh yeah,

01:03:37 ◼   ► we should probably put that in there too

01:03:39 ◼   ► and so now it's in there.

01:03:40 ◼   ► And it's not a conspiracy against the iPad or anything,

01:03:43 ◼   ► It's literally just the way that the app evolved.

01:03:47 ◼   ► It started from such a simpler place,

01:03:49 ◼   ► and somebody in management at Apple said,

01:03:52 ◼   ► "Why don't we --"

01:03:54 ◼   ► Everybody's iPad app should be a little bit more powerful.

01:03:57 ◼   ► If they are wanting compared to the Mac version,

01:04:01 ◼   ► you should think about whether there's a good reason

01:04:03 ◼   ► for that or not, and if there isn't,

01:04:05 ◼   ► maybe put those features on the iPad.

01:04:07 ◼   ► -There's a weather app.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Hooray.

01:04:10 ◼   ► Big in news. WeatherKit.

01:04:12 ◼   ► So this isn't necessarily an iPad thing,

01:04:15 ◼   ► but Apple have announced they are making a weather API,

01:04:18 ◼   ► they're charging for it, which makes sense.

01:04:21 ◼   ► But it seems like I think I saw underscore tweet about this.

01:04:24 ◼   ► - David Smith says it's half the price

01:04:26 ◼   ► of what he was paying Dark Sky.

01:04:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I mean, and I saw Brian Miller of Carrotweather

01:04:32 ◼   ► say that he uses more than 20 million calls a month,

01:04:38 ◼   ► which is blah, but so, and that's what the pricing

01:04:42 ◼   ► seems to max out at right now,

01:04:44 ◼   ► I wouldn't be surprised if Apple will have a conversation

01:04:48 ◼   ► with you, right?

01:04:49 ◼   ► And they already know who those people are, maybe.

01:04:52 ◼   ► But yeah, they're making a weather kit API,

01:04:55 ◼   ► and I'm really happy about this because I was worried

01:04:58 ◼   ► Dark Sky was gonna go away,

01:04:59 ◼   ► and Dark Sky is my preferred data source for weather.

01:05:02 ◼   ► - We talked about it two years ago,

01:05:05 ◼   ► when Apple bought Dark Sky,

01:05:06 ◼   ► and the possibility that they would do it as a system API,

01:05:10 ◼   ► that any weather app,

01:05:12 ◼   ► 'cause like David Smith is a great example, right?

01:05:14 ◼   ► David makes widgets.

01:05:17 ◼   ► He doesn't even make a weather app.

01:05:19 ◼   ► He makes widgets with weather information on them.

01:05:22 ◼   ► - Well, he kinda built a weather app inside of WidgetSmith,

01:05:25 ◼   ► but that's just Dave for you.

01:05:26 ◼   ► - He did, 'cause that's just--

01:05:28 ◼   ► - That's what he does.

01:05:30 ◼   ► - But my point is, if you're a developer

01:05:33 ◼   ► and you're like, oh, I've got this app that's really great,

01:05:35 ◼   ► and whether it's a weather app or it's a utility app

01:05:37 ◼   ► that has weather information in it, it's like, oh, oh.

01:05:40 ◼   ► but now I have to do a subscription fee

01:05:42 ◼   ► and I have to do all this stuff

01:05:43 ◼   ► and I have to negotiate this with that.

01:05:45 ◼   ► And I was like, well, wouldn't it be nice if,

01:05:47 ◼   ► since Apple bought Dark Sky, they just made that an API.

01:05:49 ◼   ► And even if they charge, which they do,

01:05:52 ◼   ► and it sounds like it's a reasonable fee,

01:05:53 ◼   ► but even if they charge for it,

01:05:55 ◼   ► it means all you have to do is call the weather API

01:05:57 ◼   ► and you don't have to go through all that trouble.

01:05:59 ◼   ► And that's what Apple should be doing on its platform.

01:06:02 ◼   ► It's easy for you to get weather information

01:06:05 ◼   ► and put it in your app on Apple's platforms now

01:06:07 ◼   ► because of this, assuming that that's what it is.

01:06:10 ◼   ► but like just saying that's Apple's sort of pitch here.

01:06:13 ◼   ► I think that makes so much sense.

01:06:14 ◼   ► So that was great to see.

01:06:17 ◼   ► That was, that's very cool.

01:06:18 ◼   ► And yeah, weather app on iPad for the first time,

01:06:21 ◼   ► which is nice.

01:06:22 ◼   ► Still no calculator app.

01:06:23 ◼   ► James Thompson's very happy about that.

01:06:25 ◼   ► - I bet he is.

01:06:26 ◼   ► - And still no health app, which is frustrating too.

01:06:29 ◼   ► - Oh, something we talked about.

01:06:30 ◼   ► The Move Ring coming to the iPhone.

01:06:32 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, that was a--

01:06:35 ◼   ► - That's an interesting-- - That's the most

01:06:36 ◼   ► little thing for people. - That's smart, right?

01:06:38 ◼   ► When they showed it, I was like,

01:06:40 ◼   ► "Oh, they're gonna bring them all?

01:06:41 ◼   ► "Maybe I don't have to wear an Apple Watch anymore."

01:06:43 ◼   ► But no, just the move ring.

01:06:44 ◼   ► And I was like, that--

01:06:45 ◼   ► - But they can use their sensors for that.

01:06:47 ◼   ► - But I thought, what a clever way

01:06:50 ◼   ► to get people into the Apple Watch, right?

01:06:53 ◼   ► - Roll teaser, yeah.

01:06:54 ◼   ► - Very smart, I like that they're doing that.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Freeform.

01:06:58 ◼   ► - One of several announcements that was very clearly for

01:07:04 ◼   ► in an update later this year.

01:07:05 ◼   ► - Later this year, yeah.

01:07:06 ◼   ► - Not even in the .0, it's not even gonna happen then.

01:07:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, we'll see what this is.

01:07:11 ◼   ► This is almost like another iWork app kind of.

01:07:16 ◼   ► - Kind of feels like it, yeah.

01:07:18 ◼   ► It's like what is like an infinite canvas,

01:07:20 ◼   ► collaborative editor, - Collaborative, yeah.

01:07:22 ◼   ► - Multimedia, like there are apps like this, right?

01:07:26 ◼   ► Like I've used a bunch.

01:07:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:07:28 ◼   ► - And it's cool, like I'm intrigued

01:07:31 ◼   ► to see what the Apple version of this kind of thing is.

01:07:34 ◼   ► - Right, and I guess that's the question is,

01:07:36 ◼   ► is this an app really,

01:07:39 ◼   ► or is it a feature that ties into other apps?

01:07:43 ◼   ► - We'll wait and see.

01:07:44 ◼   ► It looks like it pulls a lot of Apple technology together.

01:07:47 ◼   ► Right?

01:07:48 ◼   ► - Well, right, it's used Apple Pencil stuff.

01:07:49 ◼   ► - SharePlay.

01:07:50 ◼   ► - Drawing and yeah, exactly.

01:07:52 ◼   ► - Et cetera, et cetera.

01:07:52 ◼   ► - Interesting idea.

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01:10:02 ◼   ► Alright, do you want to talk about the Mac or Mac OS first?

01:10:08 ◼   ► What do you want to do?

01:10:09 ◼   ► Mmm, let's talk about Mac OS first.

01:10:13 ◼   ► Alright.

01:10:14 ◼   ► Let's stick with the OS's, how about that?

01:10:15 ◼   ► Mac OS Ventura.

01:10:18 ◼   ► What a great name.

01:10:19 ◼   ► I love it.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Yeah, Ventura is funny.

01:10:21 ◼   ► I actually did, when I was looking around to come up with things for us to pick, I didn't

01:10:26 ◼   ► and even put it on our list 'cause I thought,

01:10:27 ◼   ► ah, you know, Apple's not gonna pick that.

01:10:29 ◼   ► Ventura is not a very interesting place.

01:10:31 ◼   ► Again, apologies to people from Ventura,

01:10:33 ◼   ► but Ventura and Ventura County are--

01:10:36 ◼   ► - Jason Snell, known hater of Ventura, California.

01:10:38 ◼   ► - I just, it just never seemed like that,

01:10:41 ◼   ► like that impressive a place to me.

01:10:43 ◼   ► They'd be like, ah, the jewel of California, Ventura.

01:10:47 ◼   ► It is a good name.

01:10:48 ◼   ► And so I should have thought about that.

01:10:51 ◼   ► Like maybe it doesn't matter that they are,

01:10:55 ◼   ► There, it's not necessarily Big Sur or Monterey

01:10:59 ◼   ► in terms of its majestic beauty.

01:11:00 ◼   ► It is a good name for a product.

01:11:02 ◼   ► So there it is, Ventura.

01:11:04 ◼   ► - So obviously the Mac, like iPad as well,

01:11:07 ◼   ► benefits from a lot of features.

01:11:09 ◼   ► The iOS, Mac, and you know.

01:11:11 ◼   ► It's kind of interesting when they choose

01:11:13 ◼   ► to talk about features, right?

01:11:14 ◼   ► We're gonna talk about mailing them.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Apple hadn't spoken about the Mail app

01:11:17 ◼   ► getting a bunch of new features

01:11:19 ◼   ► until we got to this part, but it was like,

01:11:21 ◼   ► oh, and it also was on those other platforms.

01:11:23 ◼   ► but some stuff that was specific to the Mac.

01:11:26 ◼   ► There's some continuity features.

01:11:28 ◼   ► One is FaceTime handoff, which is great.

01:11:30 ◼   ► So maybe you're on a FaceTime call, sit down on the Mac,

01:11:32 ◼   ► you can switch over to your Mac's camera.

01:11:35 ◼   ► I made the joke to my wife of like,

01:11:38 ◼   ► "Why would you wanna do that?"

01:11:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:41 ◼   ► You go from, and like you can notice when people get home

01:11:43 ◼   ► because they switched to the bad webcam.

01:11:45 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, you're on the Mac now, huh?"

01:11:47 ◼   ► And so now Apple has introduced a, I think good,

01:11:51 ◼   ► but baffling feature just from like a strategy perspective

01:11:56 ◼   ► called continuity camera.

01:11:58 ◼   ► - Okay, before we get there,

01:11:59 ◼   ► I wanna give you my conspiracy theory.

01:12:01 ◼   ► - Oh, I love it, give me 'em.

01:12:02 ◼   ► You know I love conspiracy theories.

01:12:02 ◼   ► - About FaceTime continuity.

01:12:05 ◼   ► So like FaceTime continuity,

01:12:06 ◼   ► my mom sometimes picks up her FaceTime call from me

01:12:10 ◼   ► on her phone and then she can't get it to her iPad

01:12:13 ◼   ► and I like the idea of potentially being able

01:12:15 ◼   ► to sort of throw your FaceTime to a different device.

01:12:16 ◼   ► I like that.

01:12:18 ◼   ► But here's the thing, if Apple does,

01:12:20 ◼   ► as it has been rumored from time to time,

01:12:22 ◼   ► either FaceTime on something that's like an Apple TV

01:12:25 ◼   ► or FaceTime on a screen in a HomePod

01:12:28 ◼   ► that lives in the kitchen.

01:12:30 ◼   ► Those products may or may not end up existing,

01:12:32 ◼   ► but those would be really good products

01:12:34 ◼   ► to have FaceTime continuity.

01:12:37 ◼   ► - Especially on a device. - So that you could get things

01:12:38 ◼   ► on or off as you wanted. - Yes.

01:12:41 ◼   ► - So you could like start a FaceTime call on your phone

01:12:43 ◼   ► and then go throw it up onto the TV or whatever, right?

01:12:46 ◼   ► So just saying, just a theory,

01:12:48 ◼   ► But it struck me when that feature was announced that that has applicability beyond what we've currently seen from Apple and that's interesting

01:12:56 ◼   ► So continuity camera is like some of these apps and services you've seen which have now all completely been Sherlock

01:13:04 ◼   ► Which allows you to connect your iPhone?

01:13:07 ◼   ► Wirelessly, I don't know if they have a wired option to wirelessly

01:13:12 ◼   ► To your Mac to use its camera as your webcam and they have a bunch of interesting features

01:13:19 ◼   ► They use some of the portrait stuff to do lighting they can do blurring but the deep blew my mind

01:13:25 ◼   ► The desk view feature. Yeah where they use in the ultra wide

01:13:29 ◼   ► it uses the ultra wide and it crops out of that a picture of your face and

01:13:34 ◼   ► Separately, it looks straight down and does a picture of your desktop

01:13:39 ◼   ► like you've got an overhead camera.

01:13:41 ◼   ► - I need to see this for myself,

01:13:43 ◼   ► 'cause I cannot understand the physics of this part.

01:13:48 ◼   ► - And then, well, it's all, the wide screen,

01:13:50 ◼   ► the wide angle camera really does,

01:13:51 ◼   ► the ultra wide captures all sorts of things,

01:13:53 ◼   ► but then you've gotta do a lot of modification to it

01:13:55 ◼   ► in order to get it to look like it does,

01:13:57 ◼   ► but it's pretty clever.

01:13:59 ◼   ► I think, also, let's throw in there,

01:14:01 ◼   ► they're working with Belkin on mounts,

01:14:03 ◼   ► because as somebody who's used Camo for a couple of years,

01:14:06 ◼   ► which is an app that does this,

01:14:07 ◼   ► that has been Sherlock'd as of today.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Camo, their writers did a whole blog about, like,

01:14:16 ◼   ► "What mounts should I use with this?"

01:14:18 ◼   ► And the whole blog is basically,

01:14:19 ◼   ► "There are no good mounts for this.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Here are some things we tried that are fine."

01:14:22 ◼   ► And there aren't. There are not.

01:14:23 ◼   ► I bought their selection. It's not very good.

01:14:27 ◼   ► If you're Apple, you just go to Belkin and say,

01:14:29 ◼   ► "Hey, we're gonna make this thing,

01:14:30 ◼   ► so you need to come out with a line of things

01:14:32 ◼   ► that can clip to various Macs holding various iPhones."

01:14:37 ◼   ► and Belkin's gonna be like,

01:14:40 ◼   ► can I sell those in the Apple store?

01:14:41 ◼   ► And they're like, you know it.

01:14:42 ◼   ► And they're like, all right, we're on it.

01:14:43 ◼   ► It's just, you do the transaction,

01:14:45 ◼   ► and it's like, well, that, but on one level,

01:14:46 ◼   ► it's like, thank goodness,

01:14:47 ◼   ► because now there will be good mounts for this.

01:14:50 ◼   ► And then as for the Sherlocking,

01:14:51 ◼   ► I would say it is a typical Sherlocking story

01:14:54 ◼   ► where because Apple has the home field advantage,

01:14:56 ◼   ► it's their platform, they are able to do some stuff

01:15:00 ◼   ► that poor little third party apps can't do.

01:15:02 ◼   ► So like Apple, 'cause having used Camo,

01:15:05 ◼   ► like you set it up and then don't touch the touchscreen,

01:15:08 ◼   ► don't touch the sleep button

01:15:10 ◼   ► because then it's gonna not work right

01:15:12 ◼   ► and 'cause it's facing away from you

01:15:14 ◼   ► so you're not actually looking at the screen anymore

01:15:16 ◼   ► and then you gotta get it in the right place

01:15:17 ◼   ► and you gotta plug in the cable

01:15:18 ◼   ► and you gotta do all these things.

01:15:19 ◼   ► And Apple, at least in the demo,

01:15:21 ◼   ► we'll see how it is in reality,

01:15:23 ◼   ► but the demo is basically like,

01:15:24 ◼   ► oh, you just put it there.

01:15:25 ◼   ► It knows it doesn't matter if it's asleep or awake,

01:15:27 ◼   ► it wakes itself up, it does it all wirelessly

01:15:30 ◼   ► and it just works.

01:15:31 ◼   ► I'm like, well, that's better.

01:15:34 ◼   ► yes, that's why I want the platform owner

01:15:36 ◼   ► to do this feature, because that's way better

01:15:39 ◼   ► than what I was doing with Camo in order to use

01:15:42 ◼   ► that beautiful, amazing iPhone camera.

01:15:45 ◼   ► 'Cause let's be honest, even with all of the crap

01:15:48 ◼   ► that Apple's gotten about the choice

01:15:50 ◼   ► of using the center stage camera in the studio display,

01:15:52 ◼   ► right, even with that, Apple's webcams on the Mac

01:15:57 ◼   ► are never, ever, ever, ever going to be as good

01:16:01 ◼   ► as the back camera on an iPhone.

01:16:02 ◼   ► 'Cause even if, when they get better on the laptops,

01:16:07 ◼   ► they are going to have got equally, if not more so,

01:16:10 ◼   ► better on the iPhone over that same period of time.

01:16:12 ◼   ► - iPhone camera is such an important part of the iPhone.

01:16:16 ◼   ► And so even if, yeah, Apple's cameras are really good,

01:16:19 ◼   ► like having the multiple cameras and having center stage

01:16:22 ◼   ► and having all the, or having the blurred background modes

01:16:27 ◼   ► and the different, three different cameras,

01:16:29 ◼   ► and like there's so much going on there

01:16:31 ◼   ► that a Mac webcam's never gonna beat.

01:16:34 ◼   ► And certainly in the short term,

01:16:36 ◼   ► no Mac webcam is ever gonna beat it.

01:16:38 ◼   ► And so, yeah, if your webcam on your laptop

01:16:41 ◼   ► is there to be okay, but if you're doing something

01:16:44 ◼   ► where you want something really good, use your iPhone.

01:16:47 ◼   ► That's why all those apps came out to do that,

01:16:50 ◼   ► 'cause it's a very clever idea.

01:16:52 ◼   ► And Apple, in the best way, I think,

01:16:56 ◼   ► of Sherlocking a feature, said,

01:16:57 ◼   ► "You know what, you're right.

01:16:58 ◼   ► "We should do that."

01:17:00 ◼   ► And rather than like saying no, no, our webcams are fine.

01:17:03 ◼   ► 'Cause they actually made, we'll get to it in a minute,

01:17:06 ◼   ► made a webcam quality claim today, right?

01:17:08 ◼   ► So it's not like they're not making

01:17:10 ◼   ► webcam quality claims still.

01:17:12 ◼   ► But they know that your iPhone's always gonna be

01:17:15 ◼   ► the best camera you have around, so why not use it

01:17:19 ◼   ► if you care about quality to that degree.

01:17:22 ◼   ► - There is just something so funny to me, right?

01:17:24 ◼   ► Where it's like, obviously you wanna get a good image,

01:17:28 ◼   ► so let's put this little thing over the top

01:17:30 ◼   ► your webcam and it's your phone now instead because "Oh, webcams, no good enough."

01:17:33 ◼   ► I mean, if you really care about this, don't use this, use our phone instead.

01:17:37 ◼   ► They made, for Mac OS, Ventura, a big stink about games. And I raised my eyebrows, Jason,

01:17:49 ◼   ► and I was like, "Oh, games, huh?" And what I will say is, so they've got a bunch of updates

01:17:56 ◼   ► to metal, higher quality, also a silicon. It's a bunch of stuff that I don't understand.

01:18:01 ◼   ► But they announced No Man's Sky is coming to the Mac.

01:18:06 ◼   ► As an aside, they're like "oh yeah, No Man's Sky when it comes later" and I'm like "what

01:18:10 ◼   ► what huh?"

01:18:11 ◼   ► And also Jason in the press release, also coming to iPad, which I cannot fathom how

01:18:16 ◼   ► they're going to do that but I am intrigued. But also Resident Evil Village, which is a

01:18:23 ◼   ► So No Man's Sky is a game that's constantly being upgraded,

01:18:26 ◼   ► but it's a multi-year old game at this point.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Resident Evil Village is a brand new game.

01:18:32 ◼   ► It's been, I think, out within the last year or so.

01:18:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, it came out late last year.

01:18:37 ◼   ► You know, my friend, my friend Anthony Johnston

01:18:38 ◼   ► wrote that game.

01:18:39 ◼   ► - Did he? - He's the head writer

01:18:40 ◼   ► on that, yeah.

01:18:41 ◼   ► - That's so cool.

01:18:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:18:43 ◼   ► So when the 11 foot tall vampire lady wins all these awards,

01:18:47 ◼   ► it's always, he wrote her, so.

01:18:49 ◼   ► - Oh, well come on. - It's the voice artist

01:18:51 ◼   ► and him as the writer. - Anthony Johnston

01:18:52 ◼   ► has created the dreams of many people

01:18:55 ◼   ► over the last year or so. - Yeah, I know.

01:18:56 ◼   ► I know, right?

01:18:57 ◼   ► - Everyone in the game journalism world

01:18:59 ◼   ► is in love with the big tall lady.

01:19:01 ◼   ► Did you know, Jason?

01:19:02 ◼   ► - Now Anthony can play it on his Mac,

01:19:04 ◼   ► so that's gonna be great. - Soon,

01:19:05 ◼   ► they're gonna put the big tall lady into VR.

01:19:08 ◼   ► No, I mean, come on, everyone's gonna lose their minds.

01:19:11 ◼   ► - That's right, they're gonna lose their necks

01:19:13 ◼   ► 'cause they're gonna be looking up so high.

01:19:14 ◼   ► - Uh-huh, 'cause she's big and tall.

01:19:16 ◼   ► Anyway. - 'Cause she's very tall.

01:19:17 ◼   ► - If you don't know what we're talking about, Google it.

01:19:19 ◼   ► - Anyway, games. - I mean, actually,

01:19:20 ◼   ► - Don't Google it, probably.

01:19:22 ◼   ► - Probably not.

01:19:23 ◼   ► - Probably don't Google it.

01:19:25 ◼   ► - Safe search on for that.

01:19:26 ◼   ► - Anyway, one of the game directors from Capcom

01:19:29 ◼   ► of Resident Evil Village came out

01:19:31 ◼   ► and was speaking incredibly highly of the new Metal APIs.

01:19:36 ◼   ► And so Jason, I'm intrigued.

01:19:39 ◼   ► And what I'll say is like what they said,

01:19:41 ◼   ► I don't remember who was presenting this part

01:19:43 ◼   ► from Apple's side.

01:19:44 ◼   ► They were saying like, Apple Silicon's really good,

01:19:47 ◼   ► Melt's really good,

01:19:48 ◼   ► and there's more Macs available than ever.

01:19:50 ◼   ► And I was like, aha, right?

01:19:52 ◼   ► Like, this sounds to me like this is what you're going

01:19:56 ◼   ► and talking to Capcom about and saying these things, right?

01:19:59 ◼   ► Like, look, we know that we've not been good for games

01:20:02 ◼   ► in the past, but we are now,

01:20:03 ◼   ► not only are our systems really powerful and can do,

01:20:07 ◼   ► like they were saying, like up to 4K on the Mac studio,

01:20:12 ◼   ► which is awesome, like 1080p on, which is fine,

01:20:16 ◼   ► you know, for like gaming on a laptop or whatever,

01:20:18 ◼   ► but they are going out and saying to people like,

01:20:21 ◼   ► "Not only can our systems handle it,

01:20:22 ◼   ► "we now have a larger install base than we've ever had,

01:20:26 ◼   ► "so come back to us."

01:20:28 ◼   ► - Also you can put this game on the iPad and the iPhone.

01:20:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, and it will work.

01:20:35 ◼   ► And you know, this also again feels to me like

01:20:37 ◼   ► this is the beginning of what you need to do

01:20:40 ◼   ► if you're getting ready to introduce a new system

01:20:42 ◼   ► to the world which will heavily rely on game experiences

01:20:46 ◼   ► as a way to sell it.

01:20:47 ◼   ► - Yep, you think so?

01:20:48 ◼   ► I think so.

01:20:50 ◼   ► - Mail.

01:20:51 ◼   ► I wanna give you four features added to mail.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Improved search.

01:20:56 ◼   ► - Great, good, they could use it.

01:20:57 ◼   ► - Undo. (laughs)

01:21:00 ◼   ► Undo, undo send.

01:21:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I imagine that just works by

01:21:05 ◼   ► not sending it for a little while.

01:21:07 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

01:21:08 ◼   ► - Schedule send.

01:21:10 ◼   ► - Good, yeah, that makes sense.

01:21:12 ◼   ► - Follow up suggestions.

01:21:15 ◼   ► - Oh, the other one was like reminders/snoozing.

01:21:18 ◼   ► So they did it.

01:21:19 ◼   ► They made mail modern.

01:21:21 ◼   ► It only took them 10 years, but they did it.

01:21:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's the lightest touch possible,

01:21:25 ◼   ► but there is some stuff there now.

01:21:27 ◼   ► It's true.

01:21:29 ◼   ► It's true and available on,

01:21:30 ◼   ► even though they said this was a Mac feature,

01:21:32 ◼   ► it's actually across. - It's on everything.

01:21:34 ◼   ► - Are you getting it yet?

01:21:35 ◼   ► It's on all the platforms.

01:21:36 ◼   ► - Can we talk about the new MacBook Air now, please?

01:21:38 ◼   ► 'Cause you've seen it, right? - Let's do it, let's do it.

01:21:40 ◼   ► - I have seen, I've held one in my hands.

01:21:42 ◼   ► - Tell me all about it.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Tell me all about it.

01:21:44 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:21:46 ◼   ► M2 processor, so we're gonna have to talk about that.

01:21:50 ◼   ► New MacBook Air, it's thin and light.

01:21:52 ◼   ► It is compared to the existing MacBook Air.

01:21:55 ◼   ► You pick it up and you're like, oh, this is light.

01:21:58 ◼   ► And it's super thin.

01:21:59 ◼   ► - How close is this to the MacBook

01:22:03 ◼   ► in that thinking of thin and light?

01:22:06 ◼   ► - Well, it's not because of the dimension of the screen.

01:22:11 ◼   ► It's like a 13.6 inch screen. - I know it's physically

01:22:12 ◼   ► larger, right?

01:22:14 ◼   ► but like, is it got that kind of feel like,