Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [music]

00:00:12 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 412.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Sourcegraph, Squarespace, and Magic Lasso Adblock.

00:00:22 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hi, Myke Hurley. How are you?

00:00:27 ◼   ► I'm good. Do you know why?

00:00:28 ◼   ► You're home? You're home?

00:00:29 ◼   ► I'm home and it is the summer of fun!

00:00:34 ◼   ► It feels so good to be able to do with like about 60% lung capacity.

00:00:38 ◼   ► So it was just a quick update about Myke Hurley.

00:00:41 ◼   ► I am not, I'm Covid free.

00:00:45 ◼   ► I no longer have coronavirus.

00:00:47 ◼   ► I tested negative on the day that we traveled home,

00:00:50 ◼   ► but I am still suffering with symptoms.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Still symptomatic.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Yeah, so I'm working on that with doctors and all that kind of stuff

00:00:59 ◼   ► because I'm still suffering, which is a shame.

00:01:02 ◼   ► That summer of fun actually really hurt my chest.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I shouldn't have done that.

00:01:06 ◼   ► It's now I now realize that was bad for me.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - Well, it hurt me a little bit too.

00:01:10 ◼   ► I have a rib injury, so yes, it also hurt me.

00:01:13 ◼   ► - Oh God, yeah.

00:01:14 ◼   ► This summer of fun is treacherous.

00:01:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, but we gotta do it.

00:01:18 ◼   ► That's what makes it fun, I guess.

00:01:20 ◼   ► - I have a hashtag snail talk question for you.

00:01:22 ◼   ► It comes from Logan.

00:01:23 ◼   ► Logan wants to know, do you move the cursor on your iPhone

00:01:26 ◼   ► when typing by either holding on the space bar

00:01:30 ◼   ► and moving it around with the swiping

00:01:34 ◼   ► or by using the magnifier in the text body area,

00:01:38 ◼   ► like pressing and holding

00:01:39 ◼   ► and seeing the little magnifier pop up.

00:01:41 ◼   ► What did you do?

00:01:41 ◼   ► - I tap and hold on the space bar.

00:01:45 ◼   ► - Yep, me too.

00:01:46 ◼   ► And I worked out why.

00:01:47 ◼   ► I was thinking about this because this question,

00:01:49 ◼   ► I had a little pause in my brain.

00:01:52 ◼   ► And the reason was they took away the magnifier for a while.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Do you remember that?

00:01:57 ◼   ► And they brought it back, but it's just kind of--

00:01:59 ◼   ► - So I'm an iPad primary, not an iPhone primary.

00:02:02 ◼   ► So I'm mostly doing the two finger down

00:02:05 ◼   ► on the keyboard thing.

00:02:07 ◼   ► But on my phone, it's definitely the spacebar thing.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they did take it away

00:02:12 ◼   ► and then bring it back, the little loop and all of that.

00:02:14 ◼   ► - And the magnifier is better now than it's ever been.

00:02:16 ◼   ► It looks nicer, it works better,

00:02:18 ◼   ► but I just got so used to not doing it

00:02:23 ◼   ► that I don't do it anymore.

00:02:24 ◼   ► And I've realized that on the iPad,

00:02:25 ◼   ► I tend to just tap around even though the magnifier exists.

00:02:30 ◼   ► - It's also nice to see where the cursor is going.

00:02:35 ◼   ► Whereas with the magnifier loop thing,

00:02:38 ◼   ► you have to, your fingers over the actual text

00:02:41 ◼   ► and you're looking through the magnifier

00:02:42 ◼   ► to try and find where you need to be.

00:02:44 ◼   ► And it's, yeah, anyway, that's my answer, Logan.

00:02:47 ◼   ► - We're watching in real time as other upgrade

00:02:50 ◼   ► is listening live in our members Discord

00:02:52 ◼   ► are also realizing the magnifier loop came back.

00:02:54 ◼   ► So like this is a thing that happened to me.

00:02:56 ◼   ► I was like, hang on a minute.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it's there again.

00:02:59 ◼   ► I knew it, but I'd forgotten it

00:03:01 ◼   ► because there was a time when it didn't exist.

00:03:03 ◼   ► They brought it back, but by that point,

00:03:05 ◼   ► I'd learned a new way of doing things like many others.

00:03:08 ◼   ► And I do like the cursor movement on the keyboard,

00:03:12 ◼   ► either on the iPad or the iPhone better anyway,

00:03:14 ◼   ► to be honest.

00:03:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, it's good.

00:03:16 ◼   ► - If you'd like to send in a Snell Talk question

00:03:18 ◼   ► of your own to help open an episode,

00:03:20 ◼   ► just send out a tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk

00:03:22 ◼   ► or use question marks,

00:03:23 ◼   ► and I'll talk in the relay FM members discord.

00:03:25 ◼   ► - Oh, it is better.

00:03:26 ◼   ► I totally, I don't know if I've ever even seen this.

00:03:29 ◼   ► It's like, oh.

00:03:31 ◼   ► - This is one of those things.

00:03:32 ◼   ► It came back at some point.

00:03:33 ◼   ► I don't remember when, it's not important.

00:03:34 ◼   ► And we obviously knew it,

00:03:35 ◼   ► but by that point, like we used it that one time.

00:03:38 ◼   ► Oh yeah, it is back.

00:03:38 ◼   ► And then just went back doing what we got used to.

00:03:41 ◼   ► But the magnifier is better.

00:03:43 ◼   ► I think it may have left during a beta period,

00:03:46 ◼   ► but like it was a long period

00:03:47 ◼   ► and then maybe they brought it back to the release.

00:03:49 ◼   ► - I think it was like it left for a .0

00:03:51 ◼   ► and came back for a point one or something.

00:03:53 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that's a good, yeah, that makes sense.

00:03:55 ◼   ► That makes a lot of sense.

00:03:57 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:03:58 ◼   ► - To celebrate the summer of fun,

00:04:00 ◼   ► you can upgrade your wardrobe once again.

00:04:03 ◼   ► We have a brand new-- - I think you mean

00:04:04 ◼   ► upgradeyourwardrobe.com once again.

00:04:07 ◼   ► - Exactly, I was gonna get to that.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:04:11 ◼   ► We have a new tee, the new summer of fun t-shirt

00:04:14 ◼   ► celebrating the joys of summer,

00:04:16 ◼   ► beaches, iPhones, and surf rock.

00:04:19 ◼   ► That is-- - And pineapples.

00:04:20 ◼   ► and pineapples naturally.

00:04:21 ◼   ► You can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com

00:04:24 ◼   ► and you can find the brand new Summer of Fun T-shirt

00:04:27 ◼   ► in a variety of colors.

00:04:30 ◼   ► We've got this here, it's a beautiful new design

00:04:32 ◼   ► put together by our wonderful art consultant.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Oh, that's a fun name I just gave.

00:04:36 ◼   ► David Dooley is awesome.

00:04:38 ◼   ► And we have been working on this design

00:04:40 ◼   ► for the last week or so.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I basically said, "Hey, I like surf rock."

00:04:45 ◼   ► Which I do, big fan of the Beach Boys.

00:04:47 ◼   ► By the way, Jason, there's a new Beach Boys,

00:04:49 ◼   ► you maybe don't care about this.

00:04:51 ◼   ► There's a new Beach Boys album on Apple Music

00:04:53 ◼   ► that has the first spatial audio mixes of Beach Boys songs.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Oh my God, so good.

00:04:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm happy for you.

00:05:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, you should be because I love it.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Honestly, I listened to some songs,

00:05:04 ◼   ► got tears in my eyes because it's so good.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - See, we're friends and so we don't talk

00:05:08 ◼   ► about the Beach Boys much 'cause I don't like them.

00:05:10 ◼   ► - I love them. - I know you love them.

00:05:11 ◼   ► - Love them. - And so I'm happy for you.

00:05:13 ◼   ► - For most of my life and there were,

00:05:15 ◼   ► like I had the experience that I've had

00:05:18 ◼   ► with some spatial audio where it's like,

00:05:20 ◼   ► oh, that's the thing I didn't know was in this song.

00:05:22 ◼   ► So that was a very emotional time for me, but nevertheless.

00:05:26 ◼   ► So we have the new T-shirt,

00:05:28 ◼   ► the new Summer of Fun T-shirt for 2022.

00:05:31 ◼   ► We're bringing back last year's Summer of Fun T-shirt

00:05:33 ◼   ► 'cause it was such a hit.

00:05:35 ◼   ► We're also bringing back the original "Dongle Town" tees,

00:05:38 ◼   ► including the return of the orange option,

00:05:41 ◼   ► which we haven't brought back for a while.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Primarily the orange is back because my orange is worn out

00:05:47 ◼   ► and I want another one, so.

00:05:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, but you see, it's also an endorsement.

00:05:51 ◼   ► You love that orange so much.

00:05:52 ◼   ► - I love that orange t-shirt.

00:05:53 ◼   ► I want it out and I want a new one.

00:05:55 ◼   ► These will all be available until July 13th.

00:05:59 ◼   ► So we've got a few weeks,

00:06:00 ◼   ► but go and get them now at upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:06:04 ◼   ► - It's good.

00:06:07 ◼   ► I'm very happy with David's design.

00:06:08 ◼   ► We saw the original and we were laughing about it.

00:06:11 ◼   ► There was some extra stuff.

00:06:12 ◼   ► It's simplified now.

00:06:13 ◼   ► There was some extra stuff.

00:06:14 ◼   ► I think in one version,

00:06:15 ◼   ► there were some AirPods that were like flying in the air,

00:06:18 ◼   ► like seagulls or something.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And it was a little too much, but this is, yeah,

00:06:24 ◼   ► the iPhone is a surfboard too.

00:06:26 ◼   ► So good.

00:06:27 ◼   ► - So good. - It's so good.

00:06:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I love it.

00:06:30 ◼   ► - You use it to surf the internet, Myke,

00:06:33 ◼   ► you use your iPhone to surf the net.

00:06:36 ◼   ► - The yellow on green is the primary color for this one.

00:06:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, it looks, go ducks.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Looks great.

00:06:44 ◼   ► I showed it to my daughter and she said, "Go Ducks."

00:06:47 ◼   ► I said, "Yeah, I suppose it is right."

00:06:49 ◼   ► There is a red shirt and if you wear it,

00:06:52 ◼   ► I recommend that you take off that red shirt.

00:06:54 ◼   ► - So this is the thing, this is a funny

00:06:56 ◼   ► behind the scenes thing.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Usually Jason arranges the work of Cotton Bureau.

00:07:02 ◼   ► So picks the colors.

00:07:03 ◼   ► I have like a hand in the colors,

00:07:05 ◼   ► but Jason will primarily pick the colors.

00:07:07 ◼   ► But I took it this time because Jason was away,

00:07:09 ◼   ► which is also why the episode is a day late this week.

00:07:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, so three-day weekend.

00:07:13 ◼   ► and I took it 'cause some are fun, you know?

00:07:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:07:15 ◼   ► And when we were talking,

00:07:17 ◼   ► when I was talking with our wonderful friends

00:07:19 ◼   ► over at Cotton Bureau, they could show me some options.

00:07:21 ◼   ► I was like, "Oh, I like the red one."

00:07:22 ◼   ► And when I said to Jason, "Here's my colors."

00:07:24 ◼   ► He's like, "No!"

00:07:25 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:07:26 ◼   ► I was like, "Yep, this is what happens."

00:07:28 ◼   ► So there is a red shirt.

00:07:29 ◼   ► As Zach says, "I am the color czar right now."

00:07:33 ◼   ► - You can put it on and then you go to the beach

00:07:35 ◼   ► and then what do you do?

00:07:36 ◼   ► Take off that red shirt.

00:07:38 ◼   ► That's what you do.

00:07:39 ◼   ► - Upgrade your wardrobe.com.

00:07:42 ◼   ► The MacBook Pro with M2 is available to order right now.

00:07:47 ◼   ► It is. Can you feel that M2 MacBook Pro energy out there?

00:07:52 ◼   ► The speed. Everybody's talking about this laptop because it's exactly like it was before except with a different chip inside.

00:08:01 ◼   ► So different, but not that different. Just a little different.

00:08:05 ◼   ► different. The reason I wanted to bring this up because I am not really

00:08:09 ◼   ► particularly interested in this computer as we've spoken about in past episodes

00:08:12 ◼   ► but some models are already backordered until August, especially

00:08:18 ◼   ► anything with the 24 gigabyte option of unified memory, they're just all

00:08:22 ◼   ► backordered. Some of the standard models are more readily available. I just

00:08:26 ◼   ► wondered when it comes to the MacBook Air, do you think we're going to end up

00:08:31 ◼   ► with a similar result like with them being really hard to get or do you think

00:08:35 ◼   ► that maybe they're sacrificing some of the MacBook Air

00:08:38 ◼   ► to make sure they have more stock available,

00:08:41 ◼   ► of the MacBook Pro to make sure they have more stock available than MacBook Air?

00:08:44 ◼   ► - I mean, I don't know. I wish I had a better insight into this aspect of Apple's business,

00:08:51 ◼   ► but my guess is that they're making MacBook Airs and stocking them.

00:08:56 ◼   ► My guess is that there will still be supply chain-based constraints, right?

00:09:01 ◼   ► There'll still be supply limitations, but I think they know how popular

00:09:04 ◼   ► the MacBook Air is going to be. They're probably... And this is the thing about configurations,

00:09:10 ◼   ► right? If you want a custom configuration that they have not anticipated, even if they anticipate

00:09:18 ◼   ► every possible configuration and make a certain amount and try to anticipate which of the more

00:09:23 ◼   ► popular ones and which are the less popular ones, the fact is that it's going to be harder

00:09:28 ◼   ► ultimately to get one of those, I think, because until the supply chain is moving smoothly,

00:09:33 ◼   ► if you have a very specific custom order and they don't have it as something they pre-made,

00:09:39 ◼   ► then you're going to have to get in line and you're going to have to wait, which is why I

00:09:43 ◼   ► suspect even with the Air, the base configuration, the standard configs that they've got are going to

00:09:49 ◼   ► be much more available and the customs are going to be harder to come by. And I think that that's

00:09:55 ◼   ► going to be that way for a while, even if they are, which I suspect they are, spending a month

00:10:00 ◼   ► and then probably the last month or two, making as many MacBook Airs as they can so they can ship

00:10:05 ◼   ► them and have them for sale. It's not like it's all built to order where every order comes in and

00:10:09 ◼   ► then they build a MacBook Air. With the iPhone at least, they make a bunch in advance. They make a

00:10:15 ◼   ► lot of them so that they can ship them and fulfill all that demand at the very beginning of the

00:10:21 ◼   ► process. I imagine they're trying to do some of that with MacBook Air, but we'll still see places.

00:10:26 ◼   ► It's going to be like this one where, oh, if you get the base model or some very specific

00:10:32 ◼   ► configs, it's like, yeah, you can get that.

00:10:34 ◼   ► And then you try a different one and it's like, oh no, that's going to take a while.

00:10:37 ◼   ► It's because they didn't make that one and they're going to have to make it special for

00:10:40 ◼   ► you, or they didn't make very many of that config.

00:10:43 ◼   ► And so they're already running out and it's going to be a little while.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Like I think that that's just how it's going to be in the supply chain for a while.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I think you're completely right.

00:10:51 ◼   ► I do like the personal conspiracy theory that they are more, like where possible, like they

00:10:58 ◼   ► would be constraining the MacBook Pro more for the MacBook Air. Like I think that would

00:11:02 ◼   ► be logical. Like if there were, if the issues they were finding were the parts, right, like

00:11:08 ◼   ► those specific parts that they share, I could imagine they would allocate more to the Air,

00:11:13 ◼   ► but there could be a small legacy node transistor on the MacBook Air that, you know what I mean?

00:11:19 ◼   ► and it's just like, it doesn't even matter.

00:11:21 ◼   ► Like maybe they're swimming in M2 chips,

00:11:23 ◼   ► but you know what, you never know.

00:11:24 ◼   ► - Well, also, I mean, the M2 Air Design,

00:11:27 ◼   ► although it's been delayed a lot,

00:11:28 ◼   ► like you'd think they might like try to make as little

00:11:31 ◼   ► of use of the legacy nodes as possible in that model.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Whereas this MacBook Pro, it's like its own legacy node.

00:11:39 ◼   ► - Exactly, yeah. - It's like all old parts.

00:11:41 ◼   ► But yeah. - But who knows though,

00:11:43 ◼   ► maybe like they have a million touch bars,

00:11:45 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:11:46 ◼   ► They're just sitting there forever.

00:11:47 ◼   ► - Oh, I'm sure that that's the case.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And their point, and although it's kind of amazing

00:11:51 ◼   ► to think about this, that that 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:11:53 ◼   ► is the second best-selling laptop model in the world.

00:11:56 ◼   ► That's what they said, that's what they say.

00:11:58 ◼   ► And we've got the reasons why, right,

00:12:00 ◼   ► that we've talked about, like,

00:12:02 ◼   ► probably that it's the base model of a Pro line

00:12:04 ◼   ► is the biggest driver for it.

00:12:06 ◼   ► It's just like, we only buy MacBook Pros in our business,

00:12:08 ◼   ► and this is the cheapest one, so we buy it,

00:12:10 ◼   ► and it's like, it's not really a MacBook Pro,

00:12:12 ◼   ► and they're like, "No, no, no, it's a MacBook Pro."

00:12:15 ◼   ► So they, even so, they probably have a pretty good idea

00:12:18 ◼   ► of what the demand is for this thing

00:12:20 ◼   ► versus the demand for the MacBook Air.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And I have planned accordingly.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Now they could be wrong, but I think that

00:12:26 ◼   ► if you're inside Apple,

00:12:27 ◼   ► you've got very precise sales information

00:12:29 ◼   ► about how these models sell now

00:12:32 ◼   ► and how they've sold historically.

00:12:34 ◼   ► And they use that, I'm sure,

00:12:36 ◼   ► to prioritize what they're building in the factories.

00:12:41 ◼   ► But my guess would be that there'll be more demand

00:12:44 ◼   ► for the Air 'cause it looks new

00:12:47 ◼   ► and it is the number one selling laptop, not number two.

00:12:51 ◼   ► So there's two reasons to make more MacBook Airs.

00:12:55 ◼   ► But I'm sure that that would be,

00:12:57 ◼   ► one of Tim Cook's proteges, proteges or whatever,

00:13:01 ◼   ► like someone in that part of Apple

00:13:03 ◼   ► who gets this stuff built,

00:13:04 ◼   ► who gets to look at all those sales figures

00:13:07 ◼   ► and make those guesses.

00:13:08 ◼   ► It's an interesting job.

00:13:09 ◼   ► So we'll see how it works.

00:13:11 ◼   ► But my guess is that the MacBook Air will not be as shockingly constrained, but that

00:13:17 ◼   ► there will still be constraints.

00:13:19 ◼   ► This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Sourcegraph.

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00:15:08 ◼   ► So, stage manager.

00:15:10 ◼   ► I kind of don't want to talk about this, to be honest.

00:15:14 ◼   ► We touched on it a little bit in our last episode,

00:15:17 ◼   ► which to me right now, Jason, feels like 400 years ago.

00:15:21 ◼   ► - It was, in fact, nine days ago. - I didn't even talk about the fact

00:15:25 ◼   ► that we missed our connecting flight home and had to spend an extra day in Dallas.

00:15:29 ◼   ► That also happened to us.

00:15:31 ◼   ► So that's like, you know, I've been in so many places

00:15:33 ◼   ► and so many planes and I've had so much happen to me

00:15:36 ◼   ► in that time period.

00:15:37 ◼   ► It feels like a really, really long time ago.

00:15:39 ◼   ► Because of the fact I was delayed,

00:15:41 ◼   ► I missed the last episode of "Connected"

00:15:43 ◼   ► where Federico and Steven went through this discussion

00:15:47 ◼   ► at length.

00:15:48 ◼   ► So we're not gonna bother giving a primer

00:15:50 ◼   ► on why we're talking about Stage Manager and M1 iPads.

00:15:53 ◼   ► Like if you want the whole history

00:15:54 ◼   ► and haven't somehow caught it through osmosis

00:15:58 ◼   ► over the last couple of weeks, go and listen to episode 402 of Connected. But I think you

00:16:03 ◼   ► had some more thoughts that you wanted to go through today because to be honest, the

00:16:06 ◼   ► situation keeps like changing and growing and etc, etc.

00:16:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I, um, we'll keep it short because I, on the one hand, I want to say I totally sympathize

00:16:18 ◼   ► with people who bought an iPad Pro in the last couple of generations and are mad that

00:16:22 ◼   ► this feature doesn't work on their iPad Pro. I'm one of those people. I'm selling two iPad

00:16:26 ◼   ► pros now because they are honestly useless to me going forward, and I now have an iPad

00:16:32 ◼   ► Air that's going to replace both of them until Apple releases an iPad Pro that I'm more interested

00:16:36 ◼   ► in.

00:16:37 ◼   ► So, and my sympathy is legitimate, and it is also the sympathy that I have for anybody

00:16:43 ◼   ► who has a product that they bought and then becomes obsolete or doesn't have a feature

00:16:49 ◼   ► that they want and they're on the outside looking in, right?

00:16:52 ◼   ► Like that sucks.

00:16:53 ◼   ► We've all been there.

00:16:54 ◼   ► We've all done that.

00:16:55 ◼   ► You spend a lot of money and then the world moves on

00:16:59 ◼   ► and whether it's a faster processor or new software feature

00:17:02 ◼   ► and you don't get it and you're sad, right?

00:17:04 ◼   ► Like my, speaking of supply chain constraints,

00:17:07 ◼   ► my Mac studio is finally showing up next week.

00:17:09 ◼   ► And I'm like, okay, well- - Hang on, what?

00:17:12 ◼   ► Wait, what?

00:17:13 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:17:14 ◼   ► Wait.

00:17:15 ◼   ► - I'm still using the Apple loaner Mac studio

00:17:16 ◼   ► because I've been waiting for my Mac studio to show up.

00:17:18 ◼   ► - I thought you got yours.

00:17:20 ◼   ► - No, no.

00:17:22 ◼   ► - Oh, okay. - No, I got my display,

00:17:24 ◼   ► but not my Mac studio.

00:17:25 ◼   ► - Oh, that's what it was. - That was way back ordered.

00:17:27 ◼   ► So I can finally have my Mac studio that I bought

00:17:30 ◼   ► with my own money.

00:17:31 ◼   ► And I laughed when Apple said the Mac studio alone period

00:17:36 ◼   ► expires in September.

00:17:38 ◼   ► I was like, September, that's ridiculous.

00:17:39 ◼   ► And now I'm like, oh God, I hope my Mac studio comes in.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Anyway, it's coming.

00:17:43 ◼   ► So, and they've announced the M2, right?

00:17:45 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, you know, it's an, look, it's an M1 Pro.

00:17:48 ◼   ► It's gonna be okay.

00:17:50 ◼   ► But there's still that part of me that's like, look,

00:17:51 ◼   ► I can already feel my product aging

00:17:53 ◼   ► and I haven't even gotten it yet, right?

00:17:55 ◼   ► So I really understand the frustration of it.

00:17:58 ◼   ► However, this is also the way it works, right?

00:18:04 ◼   ► This is how it works.

00:18:05 ◼   ► For things to move forward,

00:18:06 ◼   ► you do have to have things advanced, things get left behind.

00:18:11 ◼   ► What's bothered me about this story

00:18:13 ◼   ► is the parsing of very specific Apple statements

00:18:17 ◼   ► that are made by people who are trying to do

00:18:20 ◼   ► some sort of a gotcha.

00:18:22 ◼   ► It's like, it reminded me of like amateur detectives

00:18:25 ◼   ► in a detective story, like, you know,

00:18:28 ◼   ► only stage manager in the building kind of thing of like,

00:18:33 ◼   ► we're figuring this out.

00:18:34 ◼   ► We, aha, but he said, no, there was no swap,

00:18:36 ◼   ► but there is no swap on this one and they need swap.

00:18:39 ◼   ► And it's this whole thing.

00:18:41 ◼   ► And so what I just wanted to say is, look,

00:18:43 ◼   ► when it's an interview with an Apple executive,

00:18:45 ◼   ► or it's a quote furnished to somebody by an Apple executive,

00:18:52 ◼   ► It's PR, it's PR.

00:18:54 ◼   ► It's not testifying under oath, it's PR, it's spin.

00:18:58 ◼   ► Now, if you want, if you're investigating this

00:19:01 ◼   ► like it's a crime, you could say,

00:19:03 ◼   ► "Aha, well, that means they're lying."

00:19:05 ◼   ► It's like, well, it's PR, yes.

00:19:06 ◼   ► Is PR lying?

00:19:10 ◼   ► Sometimes, it's certainly spin.

00:19:13 ◼   ► But the truth is, Apple doesn't wanna reveal

00:19:15 ◼   ► all the gory, messy details

00:19:17 ◼   ► of what is going on behind the scenes.

00:19:19 ◼   ► So they create these simple stories.

00:19:21 ◼   ► So they say something like, swap enables this feature

00:19:24 ◼   ► or display external display support

00:19:26 ◼   ► is an important part of this feature.

00:19:28 ◼   ► And people go, oh, but this,

00:19:29 ◼   ► if you put them all together and line them up,

00:19:30 ◼   ► it doesn't match logically.

00:19:32 ◼   ► It's like, well, no, it's a story.

00:19:33 ◼   ► They're trying to keep it simple.

00:19:35 ◼   ► They're not giving you all the details

00:19:36 ◼   ► because they don't want to talk to you

00:19:37 ◼   ► about their internal development processes.

00:19:39 ◼   ► So like the M1 Air 64 gig model,

00:19:43 ◼   ► which I think is the one that you've got.

00:19:44 ◼   ► - Yep, I have that.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - You know, it is an M1.

00:19:48 ◼   ► So it's got a faster NAND and RAM and IO, right?

00:19:53 ◼   ► So it's because it's an M1 fundamentally,

00:19:57 ◼   ► the storage, the RAM and the IO system itself

00:20:01 ◼   ► are faster than previous chips.

00:20:03 ◼   ► That's the thing you get with the M1.

00:20:05 ◼   ► But it doesn't have a lot of RAM, so it doesn't do swap.

00:20:08 ◼   ► And the answer is, my understanding is that the M1 AR64

00:20:14 ◼   ► is the barest of minimums that can support stage manager.

00:20:19 ◼   ► And that you may actually find using your air

00:20:24 ◼   ► that there are things that you can't,

00:20:26 ◼   ► you may discover things you can't do.

00:20:28 ◼   ► - I haven't found them.

00:20:29 ◼   ► We were talking about this.

00:20:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have heard that there are things

00:20:35 ◼   ► and performance issues that you might find,

00:20:37 ◼   ► but I don't know.

00:20:38 ◼   ► I honestly don't know.

00:20:39 ◼   ► That was just sort of a herd through the grapevine thing.

00:20:40 ◼   ► But my understanding is that the M1 air

00:20:42 ◼   ► is sort of like minimum thing.

00:20:44 ◼   ► Now, they chose to have it use Stage Manager

00:20:49 ◼   ► because I think Apple, one of the things going on here

00:20:52 ◼   ► is Apple wants product simplicity.

00:20:54 ◼   ► And it's very easy to say,

00:20:56 ◼   ► I know we talked about this last week,

00:20:57 ◼   ► it works on M1 iPads.

00:20:59 ◼   ► That's like the easiest thing to say.

00:21:01 ◼   ► And probably, and again, this is the stuff

00:21:03 ◼   ► that Apple doesn't wanna go into

00:21:04 ◼   ► 'cause they don't wanna talk about the magic

00:21:05 ◼   ► that happens behind the scenes, right?

00:21:07 ◼   ► They're very proud of the magic trick that they do

00:21:09 ◼   ► whenever they have a product released.

00:21:11 ◼   ► but they probably had to do extra work

00:21:15 ◼   ► to get the 64 gig iPad Air to work.

00:21:18 ◼   ► Because it's a stretch,

00:21:21 ◼   ► but they probably did the extra work

00:21:22 ◼   ► because they felt it was important to get that one in,

00:21:26 ◼   ► even though it's sort of a grace period or something, right?

00:21:29 ◼   ► It's like a little like,

00:21:30 ◼   ► oh, it doesn't really clear the bar,

00:21:31 ◼   ► but we're gonna fit it in and do the extra work

00:21:34 ◼   ► because we don't wanna say some M1 iPads support this.

00:21:38 ◼   ► So they did it.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Well, what about the previous iPad Pro? Well, they don't have the same amount of RAM as

00:21:47 ◼   ► the Air, except for the one that does, the one terabyte model. And as I think we said

00:21:52 ◼   ► last week when we were in my backyard, there's a level of complexity there. What if they

00:21:57 ◼   ► said, "Well, the previous model does support it, but only this one particular configuration,

00:22:01 ◼   ► and if you've got that, then you're good, and otherwise not." That's complicated. But

00:22:06 ◼   ► But remember what I just said about the M1, even if it's got the same RAM as the iPad

00:22:10 ◼   ► Air, the storage is slower, the RAM is slower, and the I/O is slower.

00:22:16 ◼   ► So it's got the same amount of RAM, but the A12Z is not the M1.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Everything about those things that go into doing swap or go into doing, you know, keeping

00:22:26 ◼   ► all this stuff on screen and having it be responsive is slower.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Could Apple have prioritized the A12Z one terabyte model for stage manager?

00:22:35 ◼   ► It's like, "Mm, maybe?"

00:22:38 ◼   ► But you can see the PR and communication benefits of saying all M1s are compatible.

00:22:45 ◼   ► It makes it more complicated if you say, "Well, that last iPad Pro supports it.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Oh, but not yours, because you didn't buy the expensive one with one terabyte of storage,

00:22:53 ◼   ► so it doesn't count."

00:22:54 ◼   ► Like, that's...

00:22:58 ◼   ► And also let's say, okay, so that what if they say it's worth it for the people who

00:23:03 ◼   ► who have that older model, it's worth it.

00:23:05 ◼   ► Let's just put a stage manager on that one.

00:23:08 ◼   ► Well, how much work goes into getting that one

00:23:12 ◼   ► to clear the bar if they're already doing the work

00:23:13 ◼   ► for the base model air to clear the bar?

00:23:16 ◼   ► For one skew of an old model, like, is it worth it?

00:23:22 ◼   ► Or would you say that it's not worth going back that far

00:23:25 ◼   ► and doing that extra work for a feature that I will point

00:23:30 ◼   ► out needs a lot of development work this summer, right?

00:23:33 ◼   ► It's not done.

00:23:34 ◼   ► It's clearly not done.

00:23:36 ◼   ► So that's my thought about this is, you know,

00:23:39 ◼   ► I appreciate everybody trying to keep Apple honest here,

00:23:41 ◼   ► but the idea that they're lining up all these statements,

00:23:44 ◼   ► like it's PR, Apple's not gonna tell you all the details

00:23:47 ◼   ► 'cause they don't wanna talk about it.

00:23:49 ◼   ► They wanna give you just the highest level

00:23:51 ◼   ► of storytelling about their decision-making.

00:23:56 ◼   ► And they don't wanna go down into the details.

00:23:58 ◼   ► And while I understand that people who bought older hardware

00:24:01 ◼   ► and wanted to work with the latest shiny thing,

00:24:04 ◼   ► I get that you want that,

00:24:05 ◼   ► but at some point you don't get it.

00:24:07 ◼   ► And that's just the way the world works.

00:24:09 ◼   ► And I think that what Apple chose here

00:24:13 ◼   ► is obviously self-serving

00:24:15 ◼   ► because that's what anybody in this situation does.

00:24:19 ◼   ► But I think that if you look at it,

00:24:21 ◼   ► it makes logical sense.

00:24:23 ◼   ► And I think that's all I have to say about that.

00:24:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:24:27 ◼   ► I wonder what will happen. I mean I expect maybe there is a possibility we'll get a

00:24:34 ◼   ► new beta this week. That's what you would expect. I wonder if anything will change.

00:24:39 ◼   ► I wonder if it will appear on older models. I think I am of the opinion, the unpopular

00:24:47 ◼   ► opinion that I kind of hope that they just draw the line in it and focus on making it

00:24:52 ◼   ► as good as it can be on the M1s and for all the iPads forward. I understand that if you

00:24:57 ◼   ► have a 2020 iPad Pro, which 12.9, which I do, right, so I said like when I say it's

00:25:04 ◼   ► useless to me, like now I need, I feel like the hardware that supports all the features

00:25:09 ◼   ► because I need to understand all the features to be able to talk about them as we move forward,

00:25:13 ◼   ► where hopefully we won't be talking about what stage manager works on but talking about

00:25:17 ◼   ► how stage manager works again but like...

00:25:19 ◼   ► I have some real-time follow-up by the way that will not preclude a bunch of people from

00:25:23 ◼   ► emailing having heard the two minutes ago and not listen to the rest of this podcast,

00:25:27 ◼   ► but maybe it'll stop somebody.

00:25:29 ◼   ► Zach is right. I was thinking about this while I was saying it. Zach in the Discord, the

00:25:32 ◼   ► A12Z model, they all have six gigs of RAM. It's the A12X model that has the only the

00:25:37 ◼   ► high end one has six gigs of RAM. So that's the path here is do we fit the A12X in? It's

00:25:42 ◼   ► like, well, they've all got six gigs of RAM, but they've got the slower storage and they've

00:25:45 ◼   ► got the slower memory and they've got the slower IO. So do we try to support those?

00:25:50 ◼   ► then do we go back a step further and support the high-end model of the other one? How do

00:25:54 ◼   ► we want to do that? And I'm sympathetic to the argument that it sure looks from the outside

00:25:59 ◼   ► like the A12Z model could be as capable as the low-end AIR model. However, first off,

00:26:10 ◼   ► M1 makes a difference. And two, where do you spend your time? And I think that's what you

00:26:15 ◼   ► were getting at, and that's what I would say is, this is a very ambitious feature, and

00:26:21 ◼   ► it needs work. And if I had to choose between having it be good and having it be not as

00:26:29 ◼   ► good but a little more compatible with one older model, I think I'd choose it being good,

00:26:35 ◼   ► especially since it's never going to be great on the older model because the M1 is better

00:26:40 ◼   ► at all of those things. So I would guess that they're going to prioritize things like adding

00:26:50 ◼   ► keyboard shortcuts that they desperately need and better ways to manage windows because

00:26:58 ◼   ► that's all the stuff that jumps out at me. But I think the answer will be in what Apple

00:27:05 ◼   ► Apple does, which is one of the reasons that I find this undercurrent of the detective

00:27:11 ◼   ► story so frustrating is there's this behind the scenes, there's this sense, I get the

00:27:18 ◼   ► whiff of this thing that is like, "Apple's just doing this to make us buy a new iPad."

00:27:24 ◼   ► Which given Apple, I mean, Apple occasionally does do that, I feel like with iPhone features

00:27:30 ◼   ► especially where it's like they withheld this feature because they want it to be a banner

00:27:34 ◼   ► feature of the new thing. But most of the time, I think that Apple makes these features

00:27:38 ◼   ► for technical reasons that you don't know, and they don't want to tell you, but they

00:27:42 ◼   ► just say, "This is the way it is." And I don't think it's a conspiracy to sell M1 iPads.

00:27:49 ◼   ► I really don't. I think it's weighing the decisions of, do we want to go back that far,

00:27:54 ◼   ► and what's the benefit of going back that far, versus a feature that desperately needs

00:28:00 ◼   ► work this summer. So if they feel that there is enough of a PR hit from lacking backward

00:28:07 ◼   ► compatibility and it's not as much technical work as you would think to get the A12Z version

00:28:18 ◼   ► let's say up and running, maybe they throw it in and say, "Okay, the A12Z," and it might

00:28:23 ◼   ► be the A12Z works but you only get three windows, right, or something like that, right? It might

00:28:27 ◼   ► be a-

00:28:28 ◼   ► can't plug it into a display.

00:28:30 ◼   ► - Well, certainly that, right?

00:28:31 ◼   ► Like it would be something that's limited.

00:28:34 ◼   ► And then they would say, is it worth us doing this?

00:28:36 ◼   ► And if they do it, that's why.

00:28:38 ◼   ► It's because it turns out the cost is not so great.

00:28:41 ◼   ► And the cost to them in terms of user anger

00:28:45 ◼   ► is greater than they thought.

00:28:47 ◼   ► So I'm not saying it's impossible,

00:28:49 ◼   ► but I'll also point out that remember when they released

00:28:52 ◼   ► the M1 iPad last year and everybody said,

00:28:54 ◼   ► well, why are they releasing such a powerful computer

00:28:56 ◼   ► and not having any features that are M1 features,

00:28:59 ◼   ► and this is what they did,

00:29:00 ◼   ► and now everybody's angry about it.

00:29:02 ◼   ► - This is the thing for me.

00:29:03 ◼   ► I was in that camp, right,

00:29:06 ◼   ► of like, it sure feels like this is pointless,

00:29:09 ◼   ► and so now they're saying, "Hey, it does this,"

00:29:11 ◼   ► I'll say, "Okay," right?

00:29:12 ◼   ► Like, this is a bit of a monkey's paw situation,

00:29:15 ◼   ► but I'll take it, right?

00:29:16 ◼   ► Because ultimately,

00:29:17 ◼   ► I want to see the iPad platform push forward.

00:29:20 ◼   ► If it means they have to draw a line in the sand,

00:29:22 ◼   ► and unfortunately some people get left behind,

00:29:24 ◼   ► look, I feel for you, right?

00:29:26 ◼   ► as I say, I had to spend more of my money

00:29:28 ◼   ► to try and use this feature.

00:29:30 ◼   ► So I am in that club along with all of you.

00:29:32 ◼   ► And I did it, maybe you don't want to do it

00:29:34 ◼   ► and I understand that, but I kind of feel like

00:29:36 ◼   ► I need to do it.

00:29:37 ◼   ► I wouldn't have upgraded my iPads otherwise,

00:29:39 ◼   ► like I really wouldn't have.

00:29:40 ◼   ► So if that is one of the reasons Apple's doing it,

00:29:43 ◼   ► then it worked for me, right?

00:29:44 ◼   ► But like, all I care about is that this platform

00:29:47 ◼   ► should be moved forward,

00:29:48 ◼   ► should continue to get more powerful features.

00:29:51 ◼   ► This is exactly the kind of thing that I was looking for

00:29:54 ◼   ► and was wanting.

00:29:55 ◼   ► If they're telling me it needs to be an M1 machine

00:29:57 ◼   ► to support it, then I'm just gonna wash my hands of it

00:30:00 ◼   ► and say, "Fine."

00:30:02 ◼   ► Right, and that's just the way I'm gonna roll with it.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Would I like to see them do something where they say like,

00:30:06 ◼   ► "All right, we can bring this version to it,

00:30:08 ◼   ► but it's not gonna affect the development,"

00:30:10 ◼   ► you know, that kind of thing, even better.

00:30:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, and this is, you know, again, I understand,

00:30:14 ◼   ► just go back to what I said at the beginning

00:30:16 ◼   ► to wrap this up.

00:30:17 ◼   ► I understand the disappointment.

00:30:19 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:30:20 ◼   ► - However, creating a conspiracy theory

00:30:23 ◼   ► and doing detective work to prove that you were wronged

00:30:26 ◼   ► and that Apple is lying and they're doing this all

00:30:29 ◼   ► in order to withhold a feature that you maybe want,

00:30:32 ◼   ► maybe don't want, I don't know,

00:30:34 ◼   ► for the computer that you bought previously.

00:30:37 ◼   ► I don't know, that's where my sympathy begins to ebb away.

00:30:41 ◼   ► It's like, you know, it happens, it sucks.

00:30:44 ◼   ► There are some good technical reasons for it.

00:30:46 ◼   ► I don't think this is a conspiracy.

00:30:49 ◼   ► It's always great when Apple supports older hardware,

00:30:52 ◼   ► but I also liked the fact that Apple put an M1 in the iPad,

00:30:55 ◼   ► which is this incredibly powerful thing

00:30:56 ◼   ► that they have in the Mac.

00:30:57 ◼   ► And, oh, look, it turns out that the M1 in the iPad

00:31:00 ◼   ► has some real benefits in terms of what it can do.

00:31:05 ◼   ► That seems pretty reasonable to me.

00:31:08 ◼   ► So anyway, and I have one little tiny footnote

00:31:12 ◼   ► about Stage Manager that isn't about this,

00:31:15 ◼   ► but it's related, which is,

00:31:16 ◼   ► I use Stage Manager on the Mac a little bit,

00:31:20 ◼   ► and it just works.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And I actually think that it might be viable

00:31:23 ◼   ► for some people as a way to group windows together

00:31:26 ◼   ► and switch between sort of different window groups

00:31:28 ◼   ► while having it all kind of be within sight.

00:31:32 ◼   ► I think that there's a lot of advantages to that approach

00:31:34 ◼   ► that I think are very interesting.

00:31:37 ◼   ► But what it really does is expose how

00:31:41 ◼   ► it's just using the Mac's existing windowing system

00:31:43 ◼   ► and window metaphor that we've had forever, right?

00:31:47 ◼   ► And then you switch among the windows.

00:31:49 ◼   ► Whereas on the iPad, they had to invent everything.

00:31:52 ◼   ► And it just exposes that like the iPad

00:31:54 ◼   ► doesn't have a sophisticated windowing system

00:31:57 ◼   ► underneath a stage manager.

00:31:58 ◼   ► It just has a few little things

00:32:02 ◼   ► that have been in bits and bobs here and there

00:32:05 ◼   ► for the last couple of years.

00:32:07 ◼   ► And that I think is actually the thing

00:32:10 ◼   ► that needs the most help on the new iPad OS version

00:32:13 ◼   ► is not stage manager per se,

00:32:17 ◼   ► but like window management,

00:32:20 ◼   ► because now you've got windows,

00:32:21 ◼   ► but like hitting the little three dot thing

00:32:24 ◼   ► and having it work right,

00:32:25 ◼   ► or being able to hit command W to close a window.

00:32:29 ◼   ► And it's like, it's just none of it is there.

00:32:32 ◼   ► And that's the problem.

00:32:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that broke my brain.

00:32:35 ◼   ► Like I plugged it into my Thunderbolt display.

00:32:38 ◼   ► Couple of things happened.

00:32:39 ◼   ► One, my mouse and keyboard didn't work,

00:32:41 ◼   ► which is funny to me.

00:32:43 ◼   ► That this might be a Thunderbolt versus USB-C problem

00:32:46 ◼   ► with the iPad Air.

00:32:47 ◼   ► potentially or maybe it's a bug, I don't know,

00:32:50 ◼   ► like I wanna do more testing with it,

00:32:52 ◼   ► but I found that funny.

00:32:53 ◼   ► But I was, I mean, obviously it was like wild,

00:32:57 ◼   ► like seeing things, just 'cause it looked like it was a Mac,

00:33:00 ◼   ► it was very confusing to me,

00:33:02 ◼   ► like everybody has that feeling at first.

00:33:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's disconcerting.

00:33:05 ◼   ► - But that was where I was really missing

00:33:09 ◼   ► the keyboard shortcuts, like that Command + W

00:33:12 ◼   ► should do something, it should do something.

00:33:14 ◼   ► So that's my kind of galaxy brain take

00:33:18 ◼   ► on center stage right now, or stage manager,

00:33:20 ◼   ► is that, I knew I would do that.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Stage manager, as a concept, I'm actually thinking it's okay.

00:33:26 ◼   ► I actually think--

00:33:27 ◼   ► - Jason, I am tempted to install the macOS beta

00:33:30 ◼   ► on a machine.

00:33:31 ◼   ► At some point during the process I'm gonna do it,

00:33:33 ◼   ► because I am desperate to try stage manager on a Mac.

00:33:35 ◼   ► Because I genuinely, the more I use it on my iPad,

00:33:38 ◼   ► the more I'm like, where I really personally want this

00:33:41 ◼   ► is on the Mac.

00:33:42 ◼   ► - For me, this is actually where I want it.

00:33:44 ◼   ► - And if you use it in both places,

00:33:46 ◼   ► you will discover what I discovered, which is,

00:33:49 ◼   ► oh, there's the concept of stage manager,

00:33:52 ◼   ► and then there's window management.

00:33:54 ◼   ► And stage manager is groups of windows

00:33:57 ◼   ► that you are working on together,

00:33:59 ◼   ► and they go and they turn on and off in sets.

00:34:01 ◼   ► - Which is what excites me.

00:34:02 ◼   ► - Not a bad idea.

00:34:03 ◼   ► I don't know if I'll use it long-term or not,

00:34:05 ◼   ► but I'm like, oh, I can see how this actually

00:34:08 ◼   ► makes some sort of sense.

00:34:10 ◼   ► And then I just move the windows around.

00:34:12 ◼   ► And then I go over to the iPad on an external display

00:34:14 ◼   ► and I try to do the same thing.

00:34:15 ◼   ► And it is, I feel like I am waiting in molasses.

00:34:19 ◼   ► And the reason is not stage manager, it's windowing,

00:34:24 ◼   ► it's keyboard shortcuts and dragging windows around

00:34:27 ◼   ► and minimizing or choosing how things get in and out.

00:34:31 ◼   ► And that is where it all kind of breaks down,

00:34:33 ◼   ► especially on the iPad.

00:34:34 ◼   ► So I hope they spend the summer fruitfully fixing

00:34:39 ◼   ► window management stuff on the iPad.

00:34:41 ◼   ► I feel like it's really actually like close to being good and it's developer beta 1 so I'm

00:34:48 ◼   ► encouraged but it's close to being good they just need to put in the rest of the work.

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00:36:34 ◼   ► Apple have struck a 10 year deal for worldwide streaming rights to Major League Soccer.

00:36:41 ◼   ► Yep.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Okay then.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Right?

00:36:44 ◼   ► Yep.

00:36:45 ◼   ► When this news broke I was like, there was a bunch of things we were expecting them to

00:36:50 ◼   ► do sports wise.

00:36:52 ◼   ► This is I think, not the one we expected them to do.

00:36:57 ◼   ► It is, for those who do not follow this and have not heard this news, let me just explain

00:37:02 ◼   ► what happened.

00:37:03 ◼   ► Apple and Major League Soccer, which is the top flight soccer league football for the

00:37:08 ◼   ► rest of the world in North America, or well, it's not even in the US and Canada, Liga MX

00:37:14 ◼   ► in Mexico is a better league, but probably.

00:37:17 ◼   ► But anyway, US and Canada, MLS is it, right?

00:37:21 ◼   ► So it's not a top-tier league in the world, nor is it, it is in fact the only, or one

00:37:27 ◼   ► of the major sports leagues in America that has, is not the best at what it does in the

00:37:33 ◼   ► world, right?

00:37:35 ◼   ► It's very much not.

00:37:36 ◼   ► I will say, just as a note on that, hello, I'm not in America.

00:37:41 ◼   ► I keep hearing people mention this.

00:37:44 ◼   ► One of the things that's funny to me about this is like, NFL and baseball only exist

00:37:50 ◼   ► really in America. Like, so, it's kind of, like, I've been hearing people like Ben

00:37:53 ◼   ► Thompson and John Gruber talk about this, I'm like, "American sports are the most

00:37:57 ◼   ► popular sports!" And it's like, okay, you only have them there.

00:38:01 ◼   ► First off, I'll only give you NFL there, because baseball is actually very popular

00:38:06 ◼   ► in Japan and Korea and the Caribbean and Mexico.

00:38:10 ◼   ► Nevertheless, right, but everything you're saying-

00:38:12 ◼   ► Europeans are really quick to say baseball is just in America, and it is not, but the

00:38:16 ◼   ► best players from all over the world play in Major League Baseball. And for hockey and

00:38:22 ◼   ► basketball, it is absolutely the case that you can play in your league in France or Slovenia

00:38:28 ◼   ► or Russia or wherever you want. But if you're really good at it, you play in America, in

00:38:33 ◼   ► the NBA, in the NHL. But then there's MLS and it's like, is this the best in the world?

00:38:38 ◼   ► I think it's actually a problem with American audiences. It's actually why the Premier League

00:38:42 ◼   ► does so well on TV, it does better on TV than MLS in America because it's the best in the

00:38:48 ◼   ► world and people like to see the best in the world play the game. That said, MLS actually

00:38:54 ◼   ► has been really successful and they are growing and their attendance is very good. So it is

00:39:00 ◼   ► a real thing, but it's not that big a thing. And it's also got an ownership system where

00:39:07 ◼   ► it's sort of centralized. And so Apple was able to basically walk over to MLS and say,

00:39:13 ◼   ► we would like to buy all of your television rights for 10 years.

00:39:16 ◼   ► Which is just like such a baller move, really.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Yeah. And it's like, well, we'll guarantee you $2.5 billion over the 10 years. And they're

00:39:24 ◼   ► like, okay, here it is. And so what they got is not what we've heard about sports rights

00:39:29 ◼   ► in the past. All the sports rights in the past are, oh, they're going to do baseball

00:39:33 ◼   ► games on Fridays, or they're gonna do basketball games on Tuesdays and Thursdays, or select

00:39:38 ◼   ► holidays, or we don't--

00:39:39 ◼   ► - Or like, we're gonna get these four games over the year, and you'll have to subscribe

00:39:43 ◼   ► to Amazon Prime to get them.

00:39:45 ◼   ► - Right, right, well like, Amazon Prime is gonna do the NFL in the fall, and it's gonna

00:39:49 ◼   ► be Thursday night games, right?

00:39:50 ◼   ► Okay, that's not what's happening here.

00:39:53 ◼   ► This is every game, Apple's writing MLS a check, MLS is gonna produce the broadcasts,

00:39:59 ◼   ► They're all going to be on Apple TV Plus.

00:40:01 ◼   ► So you can watch any game from any team.

00:40:04 ◼   ► That's just going to be, it's going to be baked right in, any game from any team.

00:40:10 ◼   ► It is replacing all regional broadcasting.

00:40:12 ◼   ► So if you have a local TV broadcast of your MLS team, it's gone.

00:40:16 ◼   ► It will be a national broadcast.

00:40:18 ◼   ► So they're going to turn in more something like the NFL, where everything is a national

00:40:22 ◼   ► game.

00:40:23 ◼   ► They're all going to be international, because this will be worldwide.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And then the biggest one is, although there will still be linear writes, so what that

00:40:31 ◼   ► means is that MLS will be able to do like, you know, a Wednesday night game on ESPN2

00:40:37 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:40:38 ◼   ► Like they can do that in a Saturday game on Fox Sports 1 or something like that.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Those games will still be on the Apple TV thing because there are no blackouts, which

00:40:49 ◼   ► is a huge thing for sports.

00:40:51 ◼   ► No blackouts.

00:40:52 ◼   ► is the primary delivery of this entire thing.

00:40:56 ◼   ► And so starting next year,

00:41:00 ◼   ► like this is how you will watch TV for a decade

00:41:03 ◼   ► if you wanna watch MLS games on TV,

00:41:05 ◼   ► it will be via this thing.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Now that's fascinating because this is an experiment

00:41:11 ◼   ► in a way, it's potentially looking at what the future

00:41:14 ◼   ► of sports on TV will be, which is this kind of thing

00:41:16 ◼   ► that's a league driven package

00:41:18 ◼   ► that is available for streaming.

00:41:21 ◼   ► The other thing that is interesting about this

00:41:24 ◼   ► is the way it's structured.

00:41:24 ◼   ► And those of us who have closely observed Apple TV,

00:41:27 ◼   ► as your upstream segment has for many, many years,

00:41:31 ◼   ► will know Apple does this channels thing, just like Amazon,

00:41:34 ◼   ► where you can subscribe to Paramount Plus inside the TV app.

00:41:37 ◼   ► Well, this thing is gonna be structured like that.

00:41:40 ◼   ► It's gonna be an MLS thing inside the TV app,

00:41:43 ◼   ► which means you don't get this

00:41:44 ◼   ► if you're an Apple TV Plus subscriber.

00:41:46 ◼   ► You have to pay to get the MLS package,

00:41:49 ◼   ► unless you're a, here's a hilarious little bit,

00:41:52 ◼   ► unless you're a season ticket holder to an MLS team,

00:41:54 ◼   ► in which case you get it for free.

00:41:55 ◼   ► - I think that's awesome by the way.

00:41:57 ◼   ► - I think so too.

00:41:58 ◼   ► - That's such a sweet little arrangement.

00:42:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, so if you're a loyal fan, you just get it.

00:42:03 ◼   ► - What I like about that, it kind of feels like to me,

00:42:06 ◼   ► this was a negotiation, like it wasn't one party

00:42:09 ◼   ► who steamrolled the other, because it seemed like Apple

00:42:12 ◼   ► got things they wanted and MLS got things they wanted.

00:42:15 ◼   ► 'Cause that feels very much like a major league soccer

00:42:19 ◼   ► wanting to like give a treat to their season ticket holders,

00:42:22 ◼   ► which Apple wouldn't care about, right?

00:42:25 ◼   ► Like, you know, so yeah.

00:42:27 ◼   ► - And it uses and it builds,

00:42:28 ◼   ► it's all kind of part of this same story.

00:42:30 ◼   ► So they will, so it'll be an add on thing.

00:42:35 ◼   ► They will also make some games available for free

00:42:37 ◼   ► on for Apple TV plus subscribers

00:42:40 ◼   ► and some games will be available to everyone.

00:42:42 ◼   ► So it's gonna be this, it's an interesting approach.

00:42:45 ◼   ► Like how do you do discovery of soccer broadcasts

00:42:48 ◼   ► on Apple TV. It's a little like the free Friday night baseball where it's sort of like, well,

00:42:53 ◼   ► there will be a free game. Major League Baseball does this with their package too. You can

00:42:56 ◼   ► buy every out of market game, but there's like a free game of the day. And that's what

00:43:01 ◼   ► this will be. There'll be like a free game and then there'll be a few more free games

00:43:05 ◼   ► on Apple TV Plus. But to get the whole thing, you got to buy the package. You got to buy

00:43:09 ◼   ► that deal. And this is intriguing for us as people who talk about this because we've been

00:43:14 ◼   ► talking about the NFL Sunday Ticket rumor that Apple is going to get NFL Sunday Ticket,

00:43:19 ◼   ► which is all out-of-market NFL games, for next year, not this fall, but for next year.

00:43:25 ◼   ► And this is undoubtedly how they will do it, which is it will be an Apple TV channel, essentially,

00:43:32 ◼   ► so that they can charge you a separate price, and then there'll probably be some stuff that

00:43:37 ◼   ► they give to TV+ subscribers, maybe the Red Zone channel or something like that. But like,

00:43:41 ◼   ► If you want all the games, you will have to pay, and then they'll use their channels architecture,

00:43:46 ◼   ► which is, I am 99% sure, and this is just a guess, but like I'm 99% sure that's all

00:43:51 ◼   ► this is, is it's like their own private Apple TV channel for this purpose, which is actually

00:43:58 ◼   ► kind of brilliant.

00:43:59 ◼   ► And because it's all set up, the whole thing is set up.

00:44:01 ◼   ► You buy it, it's integrated inside the app, and that also means that any other device

00:44:06 ◼   ► that's got the Apple TV app on it, TVs and Roku sticks and anything else, they all just

00:44:13 ◼   ► get this because it's part of the Apple TV app.

00:44:15 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. I think this is awesome. I think this is probably the beginning of a couple of things,

00:44:23 ◼   ► right? It's—this is Apple, I think, continuing to level up what they're able to do when it

00:44:28 ◼   ► comes to content. Oh, by the way, I've just realized, I think this gets me a point in

00:44:34 ◼   ► the draft that we've got for the next hundred episodes.

00:44:38 ◼   ► - Oh, nice.

00:44:38 ◼   ► - I said more live, oh, I said outside of sports though,

00:44:42 ◼   ► right, I think, nevermind.

00:44:44 ◼   ► But anyway, it's still to me,

00:44:46 ◼   ► like Apple continuing to flex what they can do

00:44:49 ◼   ► with live content, because that in general

00:44:51 ◼   ► could be a bunch of different things.

00:44:53 ◼   ► This is more live content.

00:44:54 ◼   ► It's more sports.

00:44:55 ◼   ► It's going to probably be a bigger sustained audience,

00:44:59 ◼   ► I would expect, than the potentially the random games

00:45:03 ◼   ► they throw out, right?

00:45:04 ◼   ► like of baseball, like probably the baseball

00:45:06 ◼   ► gets a larger audience than any single MLS game,

00:45:09 ◼   ► but they have to keep this as a consistent experience

00:45:12 ◼   ► for potentially multiple concurrent games.

00:45:15 ◼   ► I don't know if that happens in Major League Soccer,

00:45:17 ◼   ► but I expect it probably could, right?

00:45:19 ◼   ► Maybe more than one game at a time.

00:45:20 ◼   ► - I think all these games are happening in two windows

00:45:23 ◼   ► on Wednesdays and Sundays or something like that,

00:45:26 ◼   ► Wednesdays and Saturdays, so it's, yeah,

00:45:28 ◼   ► they're gonna have multiple games going at once,

00:45:30 ◼   ► which is gonna be interesting for them.

00:45:33 ◼   ► some options there too that I would like them to explore

00:45:36 ◼   ► that they haven't yet.

00:45:37 ◼   ► I know one of my complaints about Apple TV

00:45:39 ◼   ► and the baseball stuff especially

00:45:40 ◼   ► is that they're not leveraging the fact

00:45:42 ◼   ► that they are entirely app-based

00:45:44 ◼   ► and therefore they can do software things.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Like if you've got a bunch of games happening at once,

00:45:49 ◼   ► I should be able to put two of them in a two up

00:45:51 ◼   ► or four of them in a four up.

00:45:53 ◼   ► My Fubo TV app does that.

00:45:55 ◼   ► And that's a sports focused streaming service.

00:45:58 ◼   ► But like Apple should be able to do that too.

00:46:00 ◼   ► It's actually a great way to show off the Apple TV.

00:46:03 ◼   ► hardware especially. So there's a lot of potential for them to do other stuff with sports. And

00:46:13 ◼   ► yeah, it's interesting to see how this plays out because it is, like I said, an experiment

00:46:18 ◼   ► that could potentially lead to other, one, to other deals that Apple could make, but

00:46:23 ◼   ► also as a way for other leagues to look at this. Like the baseball commissioner, Rob

00:46:29 ◼   ► Bob Manfred made a comment last week where he basically said, "We understand sports rights

00:46:34 ◼   ► are complicated. Regional sports networks are an important revenue source, but we also

00:46:38 ◼   ► --" he actually said, "We also keep talking about an MLB product that is you buy this

00:46:48 ◼   ► product and you get your local team for cord cutters, essentially." And there is one regional

00:46:53 ◼   ► sports network in America, the New England Sports Network, that just announced that they're

00:46:56 ◼   ► going to do that. If you're not on cable and you want the Red Sox or the Bruins, you can pay them

00:47:02 ◼   ► and you just get it. So I think there'll be a lot of people watching what this Apple deal looks like.

00:47:09 ◼   ► The other thing that I wanted to mention just as an aside, one of my criticisms of Apple's

00:47:12 ◼   ► baseball broadcasts is that they don't offer home and away radio broadcasts as an alternate audio

00:47:18 ◼   ► stream. My understanding is that the MLS deal includes that in the package, that if you want

00:47:25 ◼   ► If you want to watch your local team and you want local announcers instead of their national

00:47:34 ◼   ► announcers that they're going to have, you will be able, my understanding is, to have

00:47:39 ◼   ► your local radio audio put over the video of the game.

00:47:44 ◼   ► And if they can pull that off, I think that's great because, again, it's a good use of this

00:47:50 ◼   ► software and streaming technology that we've got.

00:47:53 ◼   ► There doesn't need to just be one video stream.

00:47:55 ◼   ► There doesn't need to be just one audio stream.

00:47:57 ◼   ► You could customize it so the fans of the Portland Timbers

00:48:01 ◼   ► get an excited announcer who's really excited

00:48:05 ◼   ► when the Timbers score instead of a sort of

00:48:07 ◼   ► dispassionate national announcer who's gotta be objective

00:48:11 ◼   ► because they're, you know, the Portland Timbers fans

00:48:14 ◼   ► are listening but so are the Columbus Crew fans, right?

00:48:18 ◼   ► I pulled out some MLS teams there.

00:48:20 ◼   ► Anyway, it's interesting to see Apple wrote a check

00:48:23 ◼   ► or will write a series of big checks.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Oh, and one last point,

00:48:27 ◼   ► it's a guarantee of $250 million a year.

00:48:29 ◼   ► It's actually a rev share.

00:48:30 ◼   ► So we don't know what the terms of the rev share are,

00:48:32 ◼   ► but above a certain amount of success for this product,

00:48:35 ◼   ► the MLS and Apple will make money beyond that.

00:48:41 ◼   ► So Apple, if it's wildly successful,

00:48:45 ◼   ► everybody wins basically.

00:48:47 ◼   ► - So it's in everyone's interest, right?

00:48:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:48:50 ◼   ► could imagine, I mean and if they don't this would be wild, Apple should make a

00:48:54 ◼   ► MLS version of Drive to Survive or whatever right? They already have one of

00:49:00 ◼   ► these about surfing which I haven't watched yet but it's made by the same

00:49:03 ◼   ► company that made Drive to Survive. Right because the idea with Drive to Survive

00:49:06 ◼   ► is it's a Netflix documentary series about Formula One that has driven

00:49:10 ◼   ► interest in the actual Formula One races. Massive interest. And so how do you get

00:49:14 ◼   ► people interested in American soccer? One way would be to do programming that

00:49:19 ◼   ► makes you really interested in the people and the stories and all of that.

00:49:23 ◼   ► And so then it's like because then at that point like I'm sure that revenue share is

00:49:28 ◼   ► either 50/50 or Apple gets more of it right because they're giving so much in a guarantee

00:49:32 ◼   ► they will probably take the lion's share of revenue. That's how a guarantee works right?

00:49:39 ◼   ► Interesting yeah interesting deal all around and for so many reasons right for Apple, for

00:49:46 ◼   ► sports for the future, even if you're not interested in sports per se, like for the

00:49:50 ◼   ► future of streaming, it's a really interesting deal because one of the things holding people

00:49:59 ◼   ► to cable in the US is regional sports networks. And that's why a lot of money has been spent

00:50:07 ◼   ► by regional sports networks on sports rights. But we are getting toward this tipping point

00:50:11 ◼   ► where one, people like Apple will just come in and say,

00:50:16 ◼   ► well, I can write a big check too.

00:50:18 ◼   ► Like they could, I can do that too.

00:50:20 ◼   ► And also the owners start to think we're missing out.

00:50:24 ◼   ► We're missing out on the future.

00:50:26 ◼   ► And we could be closing ourselves off.

00:50:29 ◼   ► Like if everybody under a certain age doesn't have cable

00:50:32 ◼   ► and you need cable to watch a baseball game, guess what?

00:50:35 ◼   ► Nobody under a certain age

00:50:36 ◼   ► is ever gonna watch a baseball game.

00:50:38 ◼   ► - That's not a good idea. - That's bad.

00:50:39 ◼   ► That's bad.

00:50:40 ◼   ► So you need to find a way to address it.

00:50:43 ◼   ► - Rumor round up, Jason Snell.

00:50:46 ◼   ► - Pew, pew.

00:50:48 ◼   ► - So last week there was--

00:50:49 ◼   ► - Those were revolvers and not lasers?

00:50:52 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:50:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, we gotta work that out.

00:50:55 ◼   ► - All right, okay.

00:50:55 ◼   ► - Yee-haw partner.

00:50:57 ◼   ► Last week, there was a rumor first reported by Ross Young

00:51:01 ◼   ► that there was a 14.1 inch iPad coming

00:51:05 ◼   ► and it was expected to have a mini LED display

00:51:08 ◼   ► with ProMotion.

00:51:09 ◼   ► Couple of days later, Young revised the report,

00:51:12 ◼   ► stating that it will not in fact have mini LED,

00:51:15 ◼   ► leading people to believe

00:51:17 ◼   ► that this would be a 14.1 inch base level iPad.

00:51:21 ◼   ► I cannot get my head around what is going on here.

00:51:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, well, I think, okay, so what would it be?

00:51:30 ◼   ► If it's not an iPad Pro, what would you call it?

00:51:33 ◼   ► Would it be iPad?

00:51:33 ◼   ► Would it be iPad Air?

00:51:34 ◼   ► It's awfully big to be an Air,

00:51:36 ◼   ► which leads me to lead into your big grand conspiracy theory

00:51:40 ◼   ► which is essentially studio all the things.

00:51:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, iPad studio.

00:51:44 ◼   ► This came into my mind when listening

00:51:48 ◼   ► to Connected last week,

00:51:49 ◼   ► Confederico was talking about just the idea

00:51:52 ◼   ► of an iPad studio.

00:51:53 ◼   ► And then I think this rumor came out afterwards

00:51:55 ◼   ► and everyone's like, well, if it's not an iPad Pro,

00:51:58 ◼   ► surely it's a base model iPad.

00:52:00 ◼   ► I was like, well, but no, that doesn't make any sense, right?

00:52:04 ◼   ► to have a 14.1 inch product called iPad.

00:52:09 ◼   ► And nor is it like,

00:52:11 ◼   ► 'cause there's also this part of the report

00:52:12 ◼   ► where Ross Young's talking about how like,

00:52:15 ◼   ► oh, you know, it might actually be as cheap

00:52:17 ◼   ► to make a 14.1 inch screen

00:52:18 ◼   ► than a 10 inch screen in the future.

00:52:20 ◼   ► But I will just state, we'll come back to this one.

00:52:22 ◼   ► I'll just do the next report from 9to5Mac

00:52:25 ◼   ► that suggests that from their reporting,

00:52:29 ◼   ► that there is a new update coming to the base level iPad.

00:52:32 ◼   ► So the base level iPad is not going away its current size,

00:52:36 ◼   ► they're not getting rid of it

00:52:37 ◼   ► and replacing it with a 14 inch iPad,

00:52:39 ◼   ► which wouldn't make any sense.

00:52:40 ◼   ► But anyway, this base model upgrade

00:52:43 ◼   ► will have an A14 5G and USB-C, which is interesting,

00:52:48 ◼   ► but also I think the sign of the future.

00:52:50 ◼   ► I think we've spoken about the iPhone's

00:52:52 ◼   ► probably gonna go USB-C.

00:52:54 ◼   ► It will have a retina display

00:52:57 ◼   ► at the same resolution as the iPad Air,

00:52:59 ◼   ► So which could possibly lead to a slightly larger sized screen.

00:53:04 ◼   ► But it's kind of like we have this piece of information,

00:53:08 ◼   ► same resolution, but they're not 100% sure

00:53:11 ◼   ► if the screen will increase or if it will

00:53:12 ◼   ► or what it would go to.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Similarly, they don't know if the design will change.

00:53:17 ◼   ► But I feel like if we're going USB-C

00:53:19 ◼   ► and we're going to change the screen size,

00:53:21 ◼   ► it's time to change the design of the iPad.

00:53:25 ◼   ► I expect to look like the iPad mini and the iPad Air.

00:53:28 ◼   ► I think it's time, which again, they don't state,

00:53:32 ◼   ► they're not sure, is there a home button?

00:53:34 ◼   ► Is there touch ID?

00:53:36 ◼   ► I think it's now is the time to make those changes.

00:53:39 ◼   ► It's going to have to change at some point.

00:53:42 ◼   ► I think we've now hit that kind of area.

00:53:46 ◼   ► What do you think about that?

00:53:47 ◼   ► Just as on the iPad.

00:53:48 ◼   ► - Just remember Apple's whole deal,

00:53:51 ◼   ► especially with lower end products is recycling, right?

00:53:55 ◼   ► It's just reusing stuff.

00:53:57 ◼   ► So I would imagine like they would make it,

00:54:01 ◼   ► if it's gonna be a different size or shape,

00:54:03 ◼   ► it would be the size or shape of the iPad Air

00:54:06 ◼   ► so that they could use the same accessories,

00:54:10 ◼   ► et cetera, et cetera.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Like you just, everything gets reused, right?

00:54:13 ◼   ► So yeah, having it look a lot like the iPad Air makes sense.

00:54:16 ◼   ► What happens to the iPad Air at that point?

00:54:18 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:54:19 ◼   ► You know, more powerful processor, et cetera, et cetera.

00:54:23 ◼   ► Like we have to figure it out.

00:54:24 ◼   ► - A powerful processor can use the Apple Pencil

00:54:27 ◼   ► inductive charging, has a magic keyboard,

00:54:29 ◼   ► you know, all that kind of stuff.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Like I think they wouldn't bring those features to the iPad.

00:54:33 ◼   ► - Well, if they do USB-C,

00:54:35 ◼   ► they can't use the old Apple Pencil anymore.

00:54:38 ◼   ► It has to go away, and they have to use Pencil 2,

00:54:41 ◼   ► and they have to find a way to charge Pencil 2.

00:54:43 ◼   ► - And they can put that charger on?

00:54:44 ◼   ► The iPad Mini has it,

00:54:46 ◼   ► but the iPad Mini doesn't have the magic keyboard either,

00:54:48 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:54:49 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, yeah.

00:54:50 ◼   ► - So they could do that at least.

00:54:52 ◼   ► I think we still see, you know, there's still like this conflict between what is the iPad

00:54:56 ◼   ► Air and what is the base model iPad and what is the iPad Pro and…

00:55:00 ◼   ► Oh, and as Zach has said, relating to earlier, obviously the iPad Air is stage manager and

00:55:05 ◼   ► this iPad wouldn't. Yeah, I would think not, right?

00:55:08 ◼   ► Well, it's an A14. Less RAM and an A14 and a phone class chip.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Yeah. Exactly.

00:55:15 ◼   ► So that's that. So that's kind of confirming the iPad Mini is not going away. So we'll

00:55:19 ◼   ► back to 14 inch iPad. Now let's just call it the iPad studio for the time being. Now

00:55:26 ◼   ► this is I'm assuming then it has a different configuration and different trade offs. So

00:55:30 ◼   ► the screen is much larger but it isn't ProMotion. So it doesn't have Mini LED. Now Mini LED

00:55:39 ◼   ► was pitched at being like really great for creators. In theory the iPad studio would

00:55:42 ◼   ► be for creators but they'd have to tell a different story there I guess if it's not

00:55:46 ◼   ► gonna have that.

00:55:47 ◼   ► - Right, I assume Mini LED, the challenge there is

00:55:49 ◼   ► it's one, very expensive, and two, very much more expensive

00:55:52 ◼   ► the larger your screen is.

00:55:54 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, and complicated.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - It's probably some combination of those.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And I don't know, I mean, one thought I have is that

00:56:02 ◼   ► maybe there is a more interesting set of accessories

00:56:06 ◼   ► for a larger iPad.

00:56:08 ◼   ► I feel like this is the artist's iPad, too.

00:56:13 ◼   ► I mean, they could say it's for video and things like that,

00:56:16 ◼   ► where you've got to, you know, you just want more room.

00:56:18 ◼   ► But I think that I just am picturing the rollout

00:56:21 ◼   ► of this product in my mind

00:56:23 ◼   ► and thinking it's going to be super Apple Pencil focused.

00:56:26 ◼   ► Maybe this is the third generation Apple Pencil too

00:56:29 ◼   ► gets introduced with this product

00:56:30 ◼   ► so that they can tell a story with that.

00:56:33 ◼   ► I saw an artist that I follow on Twitter

00:56:35 ◼   ► who basically said, oh my God, yes, please a larger iPad

00:56:40 ◼   ► because she draws on her iPad all the time.

00:56:44 ◼   ► And I think that there would be a lot of people

00:56:47 ◼   ► who would say that, right?

00:56:48 ◼   ► That it's just like, if the point is that this is my canvas

00:56:51 ◼   ► and I would like a larger canvas than 12.9,

00:56:54 ◼   ► or anything you do on the iPad

00:56:57 ◼   ► that would benefit from more screen real estate,

00:57:00 ◼   ► including, yeah, like I said,

00:57:02 ◼   ► video editing, stuff like that.

00:57:04 ◼   ► But graphics, right?

00:57:06 ◼   ► Artwork, things with Apple Pencil,

00:57:08 ◼   ► the Procreate and Affinity Designer and stuff like that.

00:57:13 ◼   ► I can see what that would be the premise for this.

00:57:16 ◼   ► Even if a lot of people just buy it

00:57:18 ◼   ► because they want a big iPad

00:57:19 ◼   ► and they like the big screen idea.

00:57:21 ◼   ► And I know that, I think Federico would be super into that.

00:57:26 ◼   ► But I think that the way you tell the story there

00:57:29 ◼   ► is about things like creative people.

00:57:31 ◼   ► And that fits into the studio name too, right?

00:57:33 ◼   ► It's like, this is the creative people

00:57:36 ◼   ► who need more space for their content

00:57:38 ◼   ► or to create their content.

00:57:41 ◼   ► - It is a shame to me though

00:57:42 ◼   ► that it would still be using an older screen technology.

00:57:44 ◼   ► I think eventually, in the future,

00:57:47 ◼   ► all these iPads are gonna be OLED,

00:57:49 ◼   ► but we just have to wait until we get there.

00:57:51 ◼   ► But it's gonna, it'll be multiple years away,

00:57:53 ◼   ► but eventually it's all gonna lead to OLED

00:57:56 ◼   ► rather than mini-LED anyway.

00:57:59 ◼   ► But it would be a shame that this would be, I'm sure,

00:58:02 ◼   ► an expensive iPad with a lot of really great features,

00:58:05 ◼   ► but it's gonna have an LED display.

00:58:09 ◼   ► I wonder if they would make a magic keyboard for it.

00:58:14 ◼   ► - Like I said, I feel like it could be an interesting

00:58:18 ◼   ► accessory story with that.

00:58:20 ◼   ► And is it a magic keyboard?

00:58:23 ◼   ► Is it a stand that you could use it on your desk?

00:58:28 ◼   ► Is it that easel kind of approach to it

00:58:33 ◼   ► where you can draw on it?

00:58:34 ◼   ► And then you can also have like a keyboard and a trackpad

00:58:37 ◼   ► 'cause that's a mainstream way of using an iPad now.

00:58:41 ◼   ► And they set it up more that way and say,

00:58:44 ◼   ► we don't think this is your laptop

00:58:46 ◼   ► that you're bringing with you

00:58:47 ◼   ► and so we're not gonna make that.

00:58:49 ◼   ► Then again, I have a hard time thinking

00:58:51 ◼   ► that they wouldn't use it as an opportunity

00:58:52 ◼   ► to sell a big magic keyboard to somebody who wants it.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Right, it's just the opportunity of it.

00:58:58 ◼   ► But I could see the opportunity

00:59:00 ◼   ► for some other more interesting accessories

00:59:01 ◼   ► that fit the storytelling.

00:59:03 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:59:04 ◼   ► All right, so do you remember last time

00:59:06 ◼   ► we were talking about Mark Gurman reporting there

00:59:08 ◼   ► to be a 15 inch MacBook Air coming?

00:59:10 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:59:12 ◼   ► - Ming-Chi Kuo has a report that he expects there

00:59:14 ◼   ► to be a new 15 inch MacBook featuring M2

00:59:17 ◼   ► and M2 Pro options in 2023.

00:59:21 ◼   ► Now, that doesn't sound like an Air to me.

00:59:25 ◼   ► So MacBook Studio, there you go.

00:59:27 ◼   ► - All right.

00:59:28 ◼   ► - This is the thread that I am weaving.

00:59:31 ◼   ► - Studio all the things, great.

00:59:32 ◼   ► - It would be weird, right?

00:59:33 ◼   ► To put an M2 Pro in the MacBook Air.

00:59:36 ◼   ► - Right, it would be weird to do that.

00:59:39 ◼   ► - Even if it had a 15 inch screen.

00:59:41 ◼   ► So that feels like a, well it's not an Air

00:59:45 ◼   ► and it's not a Pro.

00:59:46 ◼   ► - How Airy can it be if it's 15 inches?

00:59:48 ◼   ► - Exactly, so there you go, MacBook Studio.

00:59:50 ◼   ► You heard it here first.

00:59:51 ◼   ► - All right.

00:59:53 ◼   ► - Minkjie Klo says he has not heard anything

00:59:54 ◼   ► about a 12 inch MacBook as reported by Mark Gorman.

00:59:57 ◼   ► So they're dueling.

01:00:00 ◼   ► - Maybe they were pranking Gorman.

01:00:02 ◼   ► Maybe that was all a prank.

01:00:04 ◼   ► - I think he knows that a lot of people wanna see that,

01:00:06 ◼   ► you know, even smaller Apple laptop.

01:00:10 ◼   ► And I'm one of those people,

01:00:11 ◼   ► and yet I look at that new 13 and I think,

01:00:14 ◼   ► are they really gonna put the effort into doing a 12 inch?

01:00:18 ◼   ► If they've got this new 13 inch that looks like this,

01:00:20 ◼   ► like, is that really gonna bring in

01:00:23 ◼   ► incremental number of users to do that little super light?

01:00:28 ◼   ► An awesome variation, but like,

01:00:30 ◼   ► is the 13 Air small enough or not?

01:00:34 ◼   ► And like, I would love to see that smaller laptop,

01:00:37 ◼   ► but I'm not entirely convinced that enough of us

01:00:41 ◼   ► would want to see it.

01:00:42 ◼   ► - We need to head on down to the prospector now

01:00:45 ◼   ► to find out the status of Apple's headset.

01:00:48 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:00:49 ◼   ► - Ming-Chi Kuo, who's not the prospector, but...

01:00:52 ◼   ► - Oh, he's a Marshall, right? - Just work with me here, yeah.

01:00:54 ◼   ► But Ming-Chi Kuo's latest estimate

01:00:56 ◼   ► is that the Apple headset could be set now

01:00:59 ◼   ► to launch in Q2 of 2023, likely to be announced in early 2023 with this timeline. Kuo believes

01:01:07 ◼   ► that Apple could provide early access to the hardware to developers in between announcement

01:01:12 ◼   ► and shipment to customers. Those last two parts, by the way, feel like pure speculation

01:01:17 ◼   ► from Ming-Chi Kuo, like not really based on anything, just like what he thinks. But the

01:01:21 ◼   ► first part being the launch period. This is because Kuo is reporting there are COVID lockdowns

01:01:26 ◼   ► in China resulting in the timelines continuing to slip.

01:01:30 ◼   ► So they are delaying any announcement

01:01:32 ◼   ► until they're more confident of a shipping date

01:01:34 ◼   ► because Apple would be concerned that their competitors

01:01:39 ◼   ► will see what they're working on too soon.

01:01:41 ◼   ► - Right, that's fair.

01:01:42 ◼   ► - But this continues. - Interesting.

01:01:43 ◼   ► - That's like Q2 2023, that's a year from now,

01:01:48 ◼   ► which is wild considering people were expecting it

01:01:51 ◼   ► to be unveiled two weeks ago.

01:01:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like WWDC 2023.

01:01:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, like that could be the announcement.

01:02:01 ◼   ► That could be the announcement is there.

01:02:03 ◼   ► - Well, he says announced early 2023,

01:02:05 ◼   ► but if it slips, it could be,

01:02:06 ◼   ► it could get pushed back even further.

01:02:08 ◼   ► I think his speculation about the developers is important

01:02:11 ◼   ► just because we've spent, I know,

01:02:12 ◼   ► a lot of time talking about this too,

01:02:14 ◼   ► that you really, ideally, you want developers

01:02:16 ◼   ► to spend time with this before it launches.

01:02:19 ◼   ► And so the advantage of announcing it early

01:02:22 ◼   ► is that you've got some way to at least roll out

01:02:24 ◼   ► the software story to developers.

01:02:26 ◼   ► I'd been theorizing that they might use

01:02:27 ◼   ► like a third-party headset as a sample.

01:02:30 ◼   ► This is the other way to go,

01:02:31 ◼   ► is to either create a developer kit

01:02:33 ◼   ► that is essentially the shipping product

01:02:36 ◼   ► after the product's been announced,

01:02:37 ◼   ► or literally it's a beta version of the hardware

01:02:42 ◼   ► that you're selling with a refund when you return it

01:02:45 ◼   ► or whatever to developers

01:02:47 ◼   ► in order to get developers access to this stuff,

01:02:51 ◼   ► because that's one of the ways that this will be

01:02:52 ◼   ► a successful launch is this is so different.

01:02:56 ◼   ► You really wanna be able to give developers access

01:02:59 ◼   ► to some version of the hardware if you can.

01:03:01 ◼   ► So that's an interesting tidbit of like,

01:03:03 ◼   ► well, maybe they will have enough of them

01:03:06 ◼   ► that they will approve certain developers

01:03:09 ◼   ► to get a DTK essentially of the headset.

01:03:13 ◼   ► - And it's possible that like, you know,

01:03:14 ◼   ► I say that it feels like speculation to me.

01:03:17 ◼   ► However, it's possible that he's aware

01:03:19 ◼   ► that there's some kind of like provision for a small number of units to be made in advance

01:03:25 ◼   ► or whatever. I still think that like at the very least what they will do is open up the

01:03:30 ◼   ► developer center with units and you can book appointments and you can go to Apple and try

01:03:35 ◼   ► it out there with your Apple or whatever. But it would be even better if they could

01:03:39 ◼   ► say alright give us the retail price and we'll ship you one two months early or whatever.

01:03:44 ◼   ► So you can really test it out. Because as we said many times on the show and we're talking

01:03:49 ◼   ► about this, the fact that this is their first generation of a product means that they can

01:03:53 ◼   ► have a multiple monthly time between announcement and shipping.

01:03:57 ◼   ► Right, and keep in mind too that even if it was shipping hardware, it would probably have

01:04:03 ◼   ► a beta OS on it and it might even have more restrictions. So like only your apps will

01:04:08 ◼   ► run on it. I mean they would do as much as possible to make it. You're like, "Oh well,

01:04:13 ◼   ► but if they ship it, then it's out there in the world and everybody will be reviewing

01:04:16 ◼   ► I was like, well, if they ship it, but it's kind of broken and it's just for developers,

01:04:21 ◼   ► then there will be a limited amount that can be gleaned from it, given that they will have

01:04:26 ◼   ► already announced it and told you what they think it will be in the end.

01:04:29 ◼   ► What will we really learn?

01:04:30 ◼   ► And I'm sure there will be some clever developers out there who will get it, you know, Erambo

01:04:34 ◼   ► will get it, take it apart and be like, "Oh, I think this is going on there."

01:04:39 ◼   ► But it won't be the same.

01:04:41 ◼   ► And the benefit will be that Apple will get some better software from developers when

01:04:46 ◼   ► they launch it.

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01:06:53 ◼   ► Let's finish out today's episode with some #AskUPGRADE questions.

01:06:59 ◼   ► First comes from Brant who asks, "Given the choice, would you have preferred Apple to put

01:07:05 ◼   ► full widgets on the lock screen or are you happy that they went with Apple Watch style complications?"

01:07:12 ◼   ► I, you know, I think it's good that they're different because the design style of the widgets

01:07:20 ◼   ► is very rich and nice and it's very clear that the design style of the lock screen widgets

01:07:26 ◼   ► is meant to be spare and small and also look good when it's in that always on mode that

01:07:32 ◼   ► we all know is coming, which means that they need to be very, you know, sort of dim and

01:07:36 ◼   ► just little light marks with, you know, circles or text or like super simple, right?

01:07:44 ◼   ► And regular widgets are nice and they're pretty and they're big and they have color and like

01:07:51 ◼   ► they're just totally different.

01:07:53 ◼   ► So full widgets on the lock screen, like they could do it, but then you'd have to have like

01:07:57 ◼   ► ghost widgets, like skeleton widgets.

01:07:59 ◼   ► When you're in that dimmed always on mode that we all know is coming, what would it

01:08:05 ◼   ► look like then?

01:08:06 ◼   ► So if this was, if we didn't think that that was coming and it was just sort of like widgets

01:08:10 ◼   ► on the lock screen instead of that are this new style instead of the old style, then we

01:08:15 ◼   ► might've been like, oh, but you know, I'm just tapping to wake it up and I want to see

01:08:17 ◼   ► the bright, colorful weather widget that I like.

01:08:20 ◼   ► But we all know that that's not what's going to happen.

01:08:23 ◼   ► And so that's why they made this decision and I think it's a smart one.

01:08:27 ◼   ► I like that it's different.

01:08:28 ◼   ► Personally, I like that they've gone into two different designs.

01:08:31 ◼   ► Well really that they've gone more Apple Watch than the regular Switch UI widgets because

01:08:38 ◼   ► I can still get to my widgets with a swipe from the lock screen, right?

01:08:42 ◼   ► When I've actually got the, when I've woken the screen up.

01:08:47 ◼   ► But what I like about the design of these that I've seen so far is that it's lots of

01:08:51 ◼   ► of small pieces of information that you can get

01:08:54 ◼   ► without taking up the whole lock screen.

01:08:56 ◼   ► Because if you had the regular widgets,

01:08:58 ◼   ► you wouldn't have any space anymore to see the image

01:09:02 ◼   ► and you wouldn't be able to see

01:09:03 ◼   ► a lot of notifications very easily.

01:09:05 ◼   ► Like if there's one thing I've learned from Mac OS,

01:09:08 ◼   ► widgets and notifications do not go well together

01:09:12 ◼   ► because they both want all of the space they can get.

01:09:16 ◼   ► So I like that these kind of more complication style widgets

01:09:19 ◼   ► are kind of meant to be very light in their information

01:09:23 ◼   ► and their information density and not take up like,

01:09:27 ◼   ► you know, if you think about it,

01:09:28 ◼   ► the smallest widget is the size of four app icons.

01:09:33 ◼   ► That's way too big for me on the lock screen.

01:09:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, and again, also try to imagine

01:09:39 ◼   ► your rich weather widget with the blue sky

01:09:42 ◼   ► and the clouds in the background and all of that

01:09:44 ◼   ► and the white text on the background

01:09:46 ◼   ► and then imagine it in a de-contented, desaturated--

01:09:51 ◼   ► - The number, right?

01:09:52 ◼   ► Like, oh yeah, right?

01:09:53 ◼   ► - So you got this box and it's gonna be,

01:09:56 ◼   ► like I said, it's like a ghost or a skeleton

01:09:58 ◼   ► where it's desaturated and it doesn't work in that mode

01:10:03 ◼   ► and it would take up a lot of space.

01:10:06 ◼   ► So I'm okay with it.

01:10:07 ◼   ► - You know, really it's like when you,

01:10:11 ◼   ► if you look at an Apple Watch app,

01:10:13 ◼   ► when it goes into the always on display mode,

01:10:16 ◼   ► it like loses everything by and large,

01:10:18 ◼   ► it gets really, really simplified.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - It does.

01:10:21 ◼   ► - Justin writes in and says, "For the love of God,

01:10:23 ◼   ► please talk me out of installing Beta 1 on my iPhone."

01:10:27 ◼   ► - Justin, don't do it, don't do it.

01:10:29 ◼   ► Don't do it, you'll regret it, you'll regret it

01:10:30 ◼   ► because your iPhone's very important to you.

01:10:32 ◼   ► And while you'll have those new features

01:10:34 ◼   ► and you'll be really excited about,

01:10:34 ◼   ► "Oh, look at this, I got a lock screen, I can do that."

01:10:36 ◼   ► Then you're gonna be like using your iPhone

01:10:38 ◼   ► for the regular part of your life

01:10:40 ◼   ► that isn't looking at new features

01:10:41 ◼   ► and it's gonna do something bad,

01:10:43 ◼   ► or an app's not gonna work, or it's gonna crash,

01:10:45 ◼   ► or you're gonna have to reboot your phone like during the day

01:10:48 ◼   ► because you tap on an app and nothing happens.

01:10:50 ◼   ► And you're like, "What's going on?

01:10:51 ◼   ► Oh, it's an early beta of iOS."

01:10:54 ◼   ► And you're gonna be sad, and you're gonna be,

01:10:55 ◼   ► and then you're gonna say to yourself,

01:10:57 ◼   ► "Wait, I have to do this until the middle of September,

01:11:01 ◼   ► and you'll be extra sad."

01:11:02 ◼   ► So what I would say is wait, maybe later in the summer,

01:11:06 ◼   ► a later beta will serve you better.

01:11:08 ◼   ► The first beta is not for you.

01:11:11 ◼   ► Don't do it.

01:11:12 ◼   ► - But Justin, think of how cool you'll be.

01:11:16 ◼   ► - Oh no!

01:11:17 ◼   ► - If you have beta one on your iPhone right now,

01:11:20 ◼   ► you'll be ahead of the curve, Justin.

01:11:22 ◼   ► You'll know all of the information

01:11:24 ◼   ► before anybody else, Justin.

01:11:26 ◼   ► Imagine that, right?

01:11:28 ◼   ► You will be right there, right now.

01:11:30 ◼   ► Like you don't just have to look at screenshots anymore.

01:11:33 ◼   ► You don't just have to go to 9to5Mac or Mac stories

01:11:36 ◼   ► or six colors and look at what everybody else is doing,

01:11:39 ◼   ► you could be in six colors, Justin.

01:11:42 ◼   ► You could do it.

01:11:44 ◼   ► Just install it right now.

01:11:46 ◼   ► I will say, I was just basically my feeling,

01:11:49 ◼   ► I will say it frustrates me when I listen to podcasts

01:11:53 ◼   ► and the podcasters say,

01:11:54 ◼   ► don't do it, don't install Baeger one.

01:11:57 ◼   ► I think, don't tell me what I kind of can't do.

01:12:00 ◼   ► Podcaster, you can't tell me what to do.

01:12:03 ◼   ► So I'm just very much, if you want to do it, Justin,

01:12:05 ◼   ► do it, but like, you know the risks.

01:12:08 ◼   ► - I like the reverse psychology, which is like,

01:12:11 ◼   ► hey Justin, do it, you should do it.

01:12:14 ◼   ► Yeah, there are gonna be crashes,

01:12:15 ◼   ► you're gonna be crashing all summer long,

01:12:17 ◼   ► but who cares, who cares man,

01:12:19 ◼   ► 'cause you're gonna be living on the cutting edge,

01:12:21 ◼   ► that's all that matters. - Summer of fun, baby.

01:12:22 ◼   ► Summer of fun, baby.

01:12:23 ◼   ► I'm probably gonna do it with Beta 2, join me, you know?

01:12:26 ◼   ► - And then maybe you get the, use the reverse psychology

01:12:30 ◼   ► and we can scare him off, but I don't know.

01:12:33 ◼   ► It's everybody take it into your own hands.

01:12:35 ◼   ► I have not put it on my regular phone.

01:12:36 ◼   ► I have another phone, a sacrifice phone that has it instead.

01:12:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, to be fair, this question was sent in last week.

01:12:45 ◼   ► It just didn't make it into the document last time.

01:12:47 ◼   ► Justin may have, for all we know, already done it, you know?

01:12:50 ◼   ► And it might be too light.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Leon asks, "Now that the M2 chip

01:12:56 ◼   ► has the fancy video media engine,

01:12:59 ◼   ► do you think this will make it to an M2 iPad Pro

01:13:02 ◼   ► and could therefore be a signal that Final Cut Pro

01:13:05 ◼   ► is coming to the iPad,

01:13:07 ◼   ► or will they likely just turn off the media engine on iPads?

01:13:10 ◼   ► - Look, there's already, I don't think they'll turn it off.

01:13:12 ◼   ► There already is a media engine in the M1.

01:13:14 ◼   ► It just doesn't cover quite as much of like 4K,

01:13:17 ◼   ► H.264, and H.265.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And like, it's very specific,

01:13:23 ◼   ► like additions to the media blocks

01:13:24 ◼   ► that happen in the M2 Pro or M1 Pro.

01:13:27 ◼   ► And so therefore, presumably then, you know,

01:13:30 ◼   ► that stuff came to the M2 base model.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Yeah, so I love the conspiracy theory here,

01:13:37 ◼   ► which is this is a sign that Final Cut Pro

01:13:40 ◼   ► is coming to the iPad,

01:13:42 ◼   ► except to say that they could have done it with the M1

01:13:44 ◼   ► and they would have still gotten accelerated H.264 and H.265.

01:13:49 ◼   ► It just wouldn't have necessarily been at 4K resolution.

01:13:53 ◼   ► So I think Apple can bring Final Cut to the iPad

01:13:56 ◼   ► anytime it wants to, and it hasn't yet.

01:13:59 ◼   ► So I'm not sure this makes a difference

01:14:01 ◼   ► other than to say, yes,

01:14:03 ◼   ► perhaps they would use a hardware release involving M2

01:14:08 ◼   ► as a way to launch new software, right?

01:14:12 ◼   ► Hard to believe that they would launch a pro app

01:14:15 ◼   ► for the iPad if they ever do,

01:14:18 ◼   ► which I don't know if they ever will, if they ever do,

01:14:20 ◼   ► that they would launch it with no hardware announcement

01:14:22 ◼   ► to go with it.

01:14:23 ◼   ► It seems like they would wanna time those together.

01:14:25 ◼   ► So that might be a good reason.

01:14:28 ◼   ► - Oh, can you imagine if it's got features

01:14:30 ◼   ► that are only supported by M2 iPads

01:14:32 ◼   ► that the M1 iPads don't support?

01:14:34 ◼   ► Oh man.

01:14:35 ◼   ► - 17 apps in stage manager.

01:14:38 ◼   ► - I think the truth is what would really happen is

01:14:42 ◼   ► the M1 will export 4K H.264 video

01:14:47 ◼   ► at half the speed of the M2

01:14:49 ◼   ► is probably how it would work out.

01:14:51 ◼   ► - Real time follow up.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Justin has not yet installed beta one on your iPhone.

01:14:58 ◼   ► Don't do it! Or do it! But don't do it. I don't know. We don't know what we're talking about.

01:15:04 ◼   ► The devil and the angel are on your shoulders.

01:15:08 ◼   ► Do you think we'll see TVOS directly mentioned at WWDC ever again, or was last year the swan song for TVOS getting time at WWDC?

01:15:18 ◼   ► As the TVOS expert, I think that it is less and less likely, as they are very clearly moving further away from developer features

01:15:27 ◼   ► for tvOS. I think we're most likely to hear about tvOS itself whenever they have new hardware

01:15:35 ◼   ► that requires some new user features. Like I don't think tvOS is really a platform that

01:15:42 ◼   ► the wider development community is concerned about and I don't think Apple wants them to

01:15:47 ◼   ► particularly be concerned about. Like you are a very particular type of user developer if you

01:15:52 ◼   ► are developing for tvOS and that's the end of that. Like, yeah.

01:15:57 ◼   ► I think there's truth in that, but I will say if they've got an initiative that features

01:16:02 ◼   ► in with tvOS, they'll mention it. If they've got a new thing, I think tvOS is not on a

01:16:07 ◼   ► real accelerated development schedule, but if they've got a thing that they're really

01:16:11 ◼   ► proud of on tvOS, it's going to roll out the same time as all the other OSes probably,

01:16:16 ◼   ► and they'll mention it. But yeah, I just, I think expect it to be a footnote for the

01:16:19 ◼   ► foreseeable future.

01:16:20 ◼   ► Yep, most definitely.

01:16:21 ◼   ► - Thank you expert on TV OS, I appreciate that.

01:16:24 ◼   ► - Anytime.

01:16:25 ◼   ► - Glad you were here to handle that one.

01:16:27 ◼   ► - Imagine.

01:16:27 ◼   ► And Sims asks, Myke's first hardware review unit

01:16:32 ◼   ► was the yellow M1 iMac.

01:16:34 ◼   ► Jason, do you remember what yours was?

01:16:37 ◼   ► - I don't think I do.

01:16:38 ◼   ► Like Apple heart, if we say like it's an Apple computer

01:16:42 ◼   ► where I have a review unit,

01:16:44 ◼   ► my guess is that it was a laptop in the early 2000s

01:16:50 ◼   ► because that's when I started writing lots and lots

01:16:53 ◼   ► of laptop reviews, was in the early 2000s.

01:16:57 ◼   ► Certainly by the time the Intel transition happened,

01:17:01 ◼   ► I was writing lots of Mac hardware reviews for Mac world.

01:17:05 ◼   ► So somewhere there, but I actually can't pinpoint it.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Also in that era, there were times

01:17:12 ◼   ► where I was editing the reviews

01:17:13 ◼   ► and then I was writing some of the reviews.

01:17:15 ◼   ► There were some that were advanced hardware.

01:17:18 ◼   ► There were some where we just bought the hardware

01:17:20 ◼   ► and reviewed it because Apple didn't send it to us.

01:17:22 ◼   ► So I can't -- I don't have a very clear memory of that.

01:17:25 ◼   ► But my guess is, if you wanted to say that it was a,

01:17:29 ◼   ► you know, a power book from 2003,

01:17:35 ◼   ► it's probably --

01:17:37 ◼   ► somewhere in there is probably when it happened.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:41 ◼   ► -If you would like to send in a question of your own

01:17:44 ◼   ► to be read out and answered on the show,

01:17:45 ◼   ► send out a tweet with the #AskUpgrade.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Upgrade? Upgrade.

01:17:49 ◼   ► #AskUpgrade or use ?AskUpgrade in the RealAFM members Discord, which you get access to if

01:17:56 ◼   ► you sign up for Upgrade Plus.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you will get longer ad-free episodes every single week of Upgrade.

01:18:05 ◼   ► If you are wondering, "Hey, where's the RealAFM member special crossover that you usually

01:18:10 ◼   ► do every year?"

01:18:12 ◼   ► It is being worked on.

01:18:14 ◼   ► Unfortunately due to COVID it has been delayed.

01:18:18 ◼   ► It is in editing right now, I am working on it every day, but I don't currently have the

01:18:23 ◼   ► capacity to put in the amount of time that I would have been able to put into it up to

01:18:27 ◼   ► this point.

01:18:28 ◼   ► It is coming though, it's like halfway through the editing process so far.

01:18:32 ◼   ► What people may not understand is that we use a lot of legacy nodes in making our membership

01:18:37 ◼   ► content.

01:18:38 ◼   ► I will actually say this year there are the most legacy nodes I have ever used.

01:18:42 ◼   ► I have built up such an impressive library of sound effects now that I don't need to

01:18:48 ◼   ► to buy as many so I'm using a lot of legacy nodes. The legacy nodes are helping me this

01:18:52 ◼   ► time honestly. But it's moving through the process slower than usual but moving through

01:18:59 ◼   ► the process so it is coming. I don't know when it will be but soon. I'm halfway done.

01:19:06 ◼   ► Go to getupgradeplus.com you can sign up, it helps support the show. Thank you to Squarespace

01:19:10 ◼   ► and Magic Lasso Adblock and Sourcegraph for their support of the episode. Don't forget

01:19:15 ◼   ► you can upgrade your wardrobe at upgradeyourwardrobe.com and buy some limited time only summer of fun

01:19:22 ◼   ► merchandise. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade. We'll be back next

01:19:27 ◼   ► week. Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow.

01:19:30 ◼   ► Goodbye Myke Hurley.

01:19:31 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]