Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:12 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 413.

00:00:17 ◼   ► It is still the Summer of Fun!

00:00:20 ◼   ► And this episode is brought to you by FitBard, ZokDok, and Texas Panda.

00:00:23 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:28 ◼   ► technically this may be the first episode that's actually the Summer of Fun that's recording

00:00:31 ◼   ► in the summer. I guess it was the first day of summer when we recorded last week. Anyway,

00:00:35 ◼   ► summer is here.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Summer of Fun, we all know when it starts.

00:00:37 ◼   ► And the Summer of Fun is here.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Although I guess technically last week's episode should have been the beginning of the Summer

00:00:43 ◼   ► of Fun.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Right, but we moved it up because we were outside in nice weather the week before, so

00:00:49 ◼   ► we'll give you more fun.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Having some real fun.

00:00:51 ◼   ► I have a #snowtalk question for you, comes from Brance. Brance wants to know, "Jason,

00:00:55 ◼   ► what's your favorite Pixar movie?"

00:00:57 ◼   ► It is... I've been saying for a while now and I'm gonna stick with it, The Incredibles.

00:01:02 ◼   ► I haven't watched them all lately to re-judge them, but The Incredibles is my favorite.

00:01:06 ◼   ► I like the music, I like the art direction. It's just a fun movie.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Like, the whole thing about it. I just love it. And I love a lot of PEC stars, but that's my favorite.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Voice acting's great, but yeah, the overall visual look of that movie

00:01:20 ◼   ► ticks so many boxes for me. Yeah, that's up there. That's high for me.

00:01:26 ◼   ► my only other one and I don't have an answer is such just one of the Toy Stories I'm sure

00:01:31 ◼   ► would rank very very highly for me. Sure. But I'm not sure which one I'd need to watch them all again

00:01:35 ◼   ► but I like all of them a lot. I've only seen Toy Story 4 once but was blown away by Toy Story 4.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Like it outpaced my expectation for it so that was a good movie. If you would like to send in

00:01:49 ◼   ► a snow talk question of your own to help open an episode of the show just send out a tweet with

00:01:53 ◼   ► with the hashtag #snowtalk, use question mark #snowtalk in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Got some housekeeping Jason Snow.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:02:02 ◼   ► Thank you to everybody who has so far purchased one of the Summer of Fun 2022 line of shirts

00:02:09 ◼   ► that we got running right now.

00:02:11 ◼   ► We have the brand new Summer of Fun 2022 shirt which is like beach vibes, iPhone in the sand,

00:02:19 ◼   ► pineapples, upgrade logo is the sun.

00:02:22 ◼   ► T-Shirt

00:02:40 ◼   ► Thank you to everybody that has purchased so far and if you haven't, what's stopping

00:02:44 ◼   ► you?

00:02:45 ◼   ► Don't forget that you can always get longer ad free versions of this show.

00:02:51 ◼   ► It's called Upgrade Plus.

00:02:52 ◼   ► Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you can sign up.

00:02:55 ◼   ► You become a RealAFM member, you get tons of bonus content, you get longer ad free episodes

00:03:01 ◼   ► of Upgrade and help support the show.

00:03:03 ◼   ► We have something new coming for RealAFM members.

00:03:06 ◼   ► It's a show called Spotlight.

00:03:08 ◼   ► is going to be hosted by Kathy Campbell and it's basically an AMA of hosts.

00:03:14 ◼   ► So Jason is going to be the first guest, it's going to be coming I think later this month

00:03:18 ◼   ► or the start of next month so kind of around the end of June or early July and if you are

00:03:23 ◼   ► a Relay FM member you can ask questions for this AMA in the Discord, people have been

00:03:27 ◼   ► doing that, it seems like we've got tons going right now and this is going to be a monthly

00:03:31 ◼   ► show with a different Relay FM host every time and it's going to be hosted and put together

00:03:37 ◼   ► by Kathy. So, that's a good new thing for Real AFM members, which you get access to

00:03:42 ◼   ► by going to getupgradeplus.com.

00:03:43 ◼   ► I know nothing about it other than that I was asked to appear, so we'll see how that

00:03:47 ◼   ► goes.

00:03:47 ◼   ► Yup. You don't need to do anything except, what is it, A-M-A-S, you need to just A the

00:03:53 ◼   ► Qs. That's what you need to do.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Okay, I'll get my A's in, P's and Q's in place and mine my A's.

00:04:00 ◼   ► Yeah, well, you don't want to mine the answers, you need to give them, you know?

00:04:07 ◼   ► Yeah, but the P's and Q's I will mine. The questions and the...

00:04:10 ◼   ► Oh, the Q's and A's, they're going to fly free.

00:04:14 ◼   ► The previously asked questions, I don't know.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Okay, if you have money to spend on either of these things, either buying t-shirts with our logo on them,

00:04:25 ◼   ► or getting bonus content, I would also like to recommend that you donate to an abortion

00:04:31 ◼   ► fund. Go to abortionfunds.org. If you don't know what an abortion fund is, these organizations

00:04:37 ◼   ► help people who cannot get the help that they need in their area with abortion and abortion-related

00:04:42 ◼   ► healthcare with either resources or finances or advice, and can help them get the care

00:04:48 ◼   ► that they need in their state, in the US or others. This is obviously more important now

00:04:53 ◼   ► than it's ever been, I urge you to find out more about this stuff and donate, whether

00:04:58 ◼   ► that's money or time. If you don't like that we're having to talk about this, I don't know

00:05:02 ◼   ► what to tell you, right? We have to. And especially if you don't like me talking about it because

00:05:07 ◼   ► of my accent. Again, this is the John Oliver problem, right? Like, I see it as the John

00:05:12 ◼   ► Oliver all the time. It's like, well, okay, I know I don't live in America. I know I'm

00:05:17 ◼   ► not American. However, the majority of you are, so here I am.

00:05:23 ◼   ► I'll say it in an American accent, so this will be very helpful, abortionfunds.org.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:05:29 ◼   ► See, American accent.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Because hey, abortions are healthcare. This is not, and should not be a political issue.

00:05:36 ◼   ► It is the right for everyone to have autonomy over their own bodies. It is a right. It should

00:05:40 ◼   ► be, and I believe it to be a fundamental human right. Any less is wrong. If you are now opening

00:05:46 ◼   ► Twitter or your email to try and disagree with me or tell me I shouldn't be talking

00:05:50 ◼   ► about this on a tech podcast. Do us both a favor, close the app because you won't change

00:05:55 ◼   ► your mind. This is our podcast. Oh, you added this line in here, didn't you?

00:05:58 ◼   ► I did. This is our podcast and we say what we want. So if you're sending us a message

00:06:02 ◼   ► to say we shouldn't talk about this on our podcast, guess what? We get to decide that.

00:06:07 ◼   ► We decided to talk about it. That's it. And also I've been having this thing where

00:06:12 ◼   ► people keep trying to tell me that how bad the abortion rights are in the UK

00:06:17 ◼   ► they're not we have great abortion rights here in the UK and it's also not

00:06:23 ◼   ► a political issue here so this this seems to be one of these like talking

00:06:28 ◼   ► points you know like these like people what one person said a thing and there

00:06:31 ◼   ► everyone says it so don't come at me with that effect as I said don't come

00:06:35 ◼   ► with any of it just go to abortionfunds.org instead how about that back to

00:06:40 ◼   ► our regularly scheduled programming, there are new betas.

00:06:45 ◼   ► There are always new betas, aren't there?

00:06:47 ◼   ► Yep, we got the beta 2.

00:06:49 ◼   ► We were wondering if it was going to happen, right?

00:06:50 ◼   ► We're talking about it when we were talking about Stage Manager last time.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Yes, and it happened shortly thereafter.

00:06:58 ◼   ► Not a lot of changes in Stage Manager, especially I think we anticipate more to come.

00:07:04 ◼   ► They did add some keyboard shortcuts, which is one of those things that was very much

00:07:07 ◼   ► a glaring deficiency in Beta 1 where you would, "How do I get these windows to go away or

00:07:13 ◼   ► come back or go full screen?" There are some, like there's no Command+W kind of closed window

00:07:19 ◼   ► thing which I really would like to see, but there are some new keyboard shortcuts in there.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And obviously, people are talking about like, "Will Apple change the hardware compatibility?"

00:07:27 ◼   ► which I'm not sure they're gonna seriously consider that despite the fact that people

00:07:32 ◼   ► are talking about it, but it would not happen at this point, right? Because the way these

00:07:38 ◼   ► betas work, I don't know if people are aware of this, but like, they lock the beta one

00:07:44 ◼   ► quite a while before WWDC, and then they lock the beta two, that might even have been before

00:07:50 ◼   ► WWDC, but certainly like, these things are done, there's a lag time, so they're working

00:07:56 ◼   ► on it, but if you're expecting like, reactions, this is just like Safari last year, if you're

00:08:00 ◼   ► expecting reactions to backlash, it takes a little while. There is some lag time in

00:08:05 ◼   ► there.

00:08:06 ◼   ► The usual, at least I think the more modern expectation, is the first public beta, which

00:08:13 ◼   ► is usually around beta 3 time-ish, tends to be the first beta that has actually received

00:08:19 ◼   ► post-WWDC feedback. That's what I keep, I see people say that and it makes sense to

00:08:27 ◼   ► me.

00:08:28 ◼   ► like they're doing something that requires time to implement. So if at Beta 3, they know

00:08:33 ◼   ► about your feedback, it might take a couple more Betas to get the work done, right? Like,

00:08:40 ◼   ► it's a long process. So far, it was changing all the way up to the end last year.

00:08:44 ◼   ► All the way to the end. So what I would say for people who are very closely following Betas and

00:08:47 ◼   ► wondering what it means in terms of how Apple's thinking, like just keep in your mind, it's way

00:08:52 ◼   ► way more complicated and there's a lag and making changes is not easy. Even if they decide

00:08:58 ◼   ► to make them, it will take time. The best you could hope for is some vague PR statement

00:09:03 ◼   ► that says, "We'll continue working on this." I mean, I think that's what they did last

00:09:06 ◼   ► year with Safari. That's actually a big disclosure for them that like, "No, it's not done. We're

00:09:11 ◼   ► working on it." But they're not going to say, "Oh, we're trying some stuff and we're not

00:09:16 ◼   ► sure how it'll..." They're not going to say anything like that. So just keep an eye on

00:09:19 ◼   ► it and we will keep an eye on it. And before the show we were talking about like, you know,

00:09:25 ◼   ► people like us, we do use these things and talk and write about them and we'll, at some

00:09:32 ◼   ► expense to our lives because it breaks our devices, but we need to do it. So we'll keep

00:09:38 ◼   ► an eye and we'll let you know how it's going this summer if you're not brave enough. If

00:09:42 ◼   ► that devil on your shoulder has not whispered in your ear to install the beta, then we'll

00:09:47 ◼   ► report about it instead.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Speaking of which, Justin installed Beta 2.

00:09:52 ◼   ► [ Laughs ]

00:09:53 ◼   ► I haven't on my iPhone.

00:09:55 ◼   ► So we were talking about this last week

00:09:57 ◼   ► as part of Ask Upgrade.

00:09:58 ◼   ► I encouraged Justin to install the beta on their iPhone,

00:10:01 ◼   ► and they did. They did it.

00:10:02 ◼   ► -I said, "Justin, don't do it."

00:10:04 ◼   ► That was the title. -Mm-hmm.

00:10:05 ◼   ► -Justin did it. -Great title.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Did you see that tweet?

00:10:09 ◼   ► I wish I could remember it exactly,

00:10:10 ◼   ► but it was another person called Justin,

00:10:13 ◼   ► and they said that they were thinking about a life decision.

00:10:17 ◼   ► And then the episode popped up in there.

00:10:21 ◼   ► - Well, in the end, yes.

00:10:23 ◼   ► This is Justin who said,

00:10:24 ◼   ► "I saw this while contemplating a serious life decision.

00:10:27 ◼   ► Thank you for my help.

00:10:28 ◼   ► I have made the difficult decision

00:10:29 ◼   ► not to supersize my meal."

00:10:31 ◼   ► - Oh, that was it, that was it.

00:10:33 ◼   ► - So we're turning off,

00:10:34 ◼   ► at least one Justin turned away from the dark side

00:10:37 ◼   ► due to our intervention.

00:10:38 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Just a little better for your body, you know?

00:10:41 ◼   ► Less salt or whatever it was gonna be, more fries.

00:10:43 ◼   ► - Whatever, yeah.

00:10:45 ◼   ► - You know, I went to a McDonald's at the airport

00:10:48 ◼   ► when we were in Dallas on our way home.

00:10:51 ◼   ► The sizes are so peculiar to me.

00:10:53 ◼   ► Like a small drink, it's like, it's huge.

00:10:56 ◼   ► It's massive. - Yeah.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I mean, you're falling into

00:10:59 ◼   ► a little bit of a European trap too,

00:11:01 ◼   ► because, you know, it's the big US thing.

00:11:03 ◼   ► And then there's the, well, we have that

00:11:06 ◼   ► in movie theaters too here.

00:11:07 ◼   ► It's that idea that everybody wants a medium.

00:11:10 ◼   ► So you make the medium big and expensive.

00:11:12 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:11:13 ◼   ► And then people order the medium and they're like,

00:11:14 ◼   ► this is the medium? Well yeah. They should just make everything Starbucks sizes, right?

00:11:22 ◼   ► The grande, a venti, whatever it might be.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Tall is small. There is a smaller one but it's not on the menu and I don't remember

00:11:30 ◼   ► the name. I think it's called short, I think.

00:11:33 ◼   ► That could be short and tall, grande and venti.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Short is a Starbucks size?

00:11:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:38 ◼   ► Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:39 ◼   ► - The secret size, the secret small size is small,

00:11:42 ◼   ► or short, but it's also small.

00:11:45 ◼   ► I have a friend who orders things in terms of

00:11:49 ◼   ► like the smallest cup you have,

00:11:51 ◼   ► or the biggest cup you have, like depending on mood.

00:11:55 ◼   ► So this brings me to my question for you.

00:11:56 ◼   ► This is my talk, which is not a segment

00:11:58 ◼   ► that we normally do here,

00:11:59 ◼   ► but since we mentioned Starbucks sizes,

00:12:03 ◼   ► do you have a go-to Starbucks order?

00:12:04 ◼   ► Do you go to Starbucks?

00:12:05 ◼   ► And if you do, what's your go-to?

00:12:07 ◼   ► - Yes and yes.

00:12:08 ◼   ► So I go to Starbucks for kind of two reasons.

00:12:13 ◼   ► It's convenience or like consistency.

00:12:19 ◼   ► So if I'm somewhere new or I'm somewhere

00:12:23 ◼   ► where I think the coffee isn't good,

00:12:25 ◼   ► I wish I could remember who this quote was,

00:12:29 ◼   ► but it's someone famous in the coffee world

00:12:31 ◼   ► that says Starbucks is the best thing to ever happen

00:12:34 ◼   ► to people that like coffee

00:12:36 ◼   ► because you get a consistent cup of coffee always.

00:12:40 ◼   ► But what I do is I treat Starbucks

00:12:43 ◼   ► the way that I think of it to be,

00:12:46 ◼   ► and I will tend to get some kind of flavored,

00:12:48 ◼   ► like caramel flavored drink,

00:12:50 ◼   ► whether it's, I will either get a caramel latte

00:12:54 ◼   ► or a caramel frappuccino,

00:12:55 ◼   ► depending on the temperature outside.

00:12:57 ◼   ► I just, you know, I don't like the way their coffee tastes,

00:13:00 ◼   ► so I like to just, rather than just put sugar in it,

00:13:03 ◼   ► Let's put some caramel syrup in there and go wild, you know?

00:13:06 ◼   ► - So the, and I don't drink coffee,

00:13:09 ◼   ► but when I go to Starbucks,

00:13:10 ◼   ► unless I'm staying somewhere that doesn't have tea

00:13:12 ◼   ► or I haven't brought tea or I haven't been able to make tea,

00:13:14 ◼   ► in which case I'll get tea with honey, ideally.

00:13:19 ◼   ► But if it's just sort of like during the day,

00:13:21 ◼   ► like I used to go write my column, my Mac World column,

00:13:23 ◼   ► I would go on Tuesday afternoon to a local Starbucks

00:13:25 ◼   ► and I would sit there and write my column.

00:13:26 ◼   ► And it was like my little cafe writing thing.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Always the same grande, hot chocolate, no whip,

00:13:32 ◼   ► whipped cream, although sometimes I will take that off if I'm feeling special, but usually no whipped

00:13:37 ◼   ► cream. I'll get no whipped cream on the frappuccinos. I don't like whipped cream in coffee drinks.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Yeah, well, hot chocolate, I mean, it's just more—it's just plowing more into that thing.

00:13:47 ◼   ► Anyway, but because I don't have—I don't—if I don't want tea and I don't drink coffee,

00:13:51 ◼   ► they do make a actually really nice hot chocolate, and I've been to lots of coffee places that make a

00:13:55 ◼   ► lousy hot chocolate, but the Starbucks one is really good. I also wanted to mention,

00:13:58 ◼   ► you talked about consistency. That is the secret for a lot of chains, is people are like,

00:14:01 ◼   ► like, well, you came all the way to Orange City

00:14:03 ◼   ► and you just went to Starbucks.

00:14:04 ◼   ► It's like, well, if you don't know

00:14:06 ◼   ► where the good, fussy coffee chain is,

00:14:08 ◼   ► or it's not conveniently located to you,

00:14:10 ◼   ► especially if you're traveling a lot,

00:14:12 ◼   ► there is something to be said for consistency.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Even if it's not the best, you know

00:14:16 ◼   ► it's going to basically taste the same no matter where you go.

00:14:18 ◼   ► And this is an anecdote that I really

00:14:20 ◼   ► like from a musician who I love, Bob Mould, who

00:14:24 ◼   ► was in Husker Du back in the day and is a solo artist now.

00:14:27 ◼   ► And I remember reading an interview with him,

00:14:29 ◼   ► or maybe it was even in his memoir,

00:14:31 ◼   ► where he talked about Subway and eating sandwiches at Subway.

00:14:35 ◼   ► And he says, okay, Subway is not very rock and roll, right?

00:14:40 ◼   ► He said, if you're in 40 different cities in the US

00:14:43 ◼   ► on a tour and you're exhausted

00:14:46 ◼   ► and you just need to eat something before you go to bed,

00:14:49 ◼   ► the fact is I can order the same sandwich at Subway

00:14:53 ◼   ► anywhere in the United States and it will always be the same.

00:14:58 ◼   ► And it's one of those, are you giving up?

00:14:59 ◼   ► Is it a give up?

00:15:00 ◼   ► Yes, but there is sometimes something to be said for convenience. I'll do that on road trips where

00:15:05 ◼   ► it's like, we don't go to a lot of chain restaurants at home, but on a road trip,

00:15:09 ◼   ► it's nice to know what you're going to get. And there's a time to kind of experiment and like,

00:15:14 ◼   ► oh, let's go to this roadside stand and see how it is. But like, if you're just trying to

00:15:18 ◼   ► stop and get something and then get back on the road, there's something to be said for convenience.

00:15:23 ◼   ► So I didn't know I'd be endorsing a Bob Mould subway strategy or that we would be talking

00:15:28 ◼   ► talking about Starbucks, but that's the glory of mic talk. The Flying Dutchman of upgrade

00:15:32 ◼   ► segments, it doesn't really exist, people doubt its existence, but then sometimes it

00:15:37 ◼   ► just appears. It's like the connected quiz!

00:15:40 ◼   ► It sure is. Well, way less frequent. Way, way less frequent.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

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00:17:48 ◼   ► and RelayFN.

00:17:49 ◼   ► Big rumor roundup today.

00:17:52 ◼   ► This is the time of year, Jason,

00:17:55 ◼   ► when Mark Gurman is gonna wrap up a ton of hardware.

00:17:59 ◼   ► So-- - Yeah, it's a lot of stuff

00:18:01 ◼   ► we've heard before,

00:18:02 ◼   ► but he sort of like put it in one place of,

00:18:05 ◼   ► and I thought he hyped it up a little bit.

00:18:06 ◼   ► He's like, "Oh, this is one of the most ambitious

00:18:08 ◼   ► product slates that Apple's gonna release in some time."

00:18:12 ◼   ► And I thought, did somebody at Apple tell you that?

00:18:14 ◼   ► Because I mean, it's just a list of everything

00:18:18 ◼   ► they're gonna release in the next year.

00:18:19 ◼   ► I'm not sure how super ambitious it is.

00:18:21 ◼   ► It's good.

00:18:22 ◼   ► There's a lot of stuff.

00:18:23 ◼   ► I did feel exhausted reading it

00:18:24 ◼   ► 'cause I imagined all the work that is gonna go into

00:18:27 ◼   ► reviewing all this stuff.

00:18:29 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Well the way I, because I came away from it feeling like, "Oh it's a lot of stuff."

00:18:33 ◼   ► And I think the reason for it, and maybe what he's getting to, but as you say, probably

00:18:37 ◼   ► is overhyping it.

00:18:39 ◼   ► A lot of this is going to come this year, and one of the things that Apple's doing is

00:18:45 ◼   ► lots of models of the same product.

00:18:48 ◼   ► And so it's like, it feels like there are a lot of products, and maybe also some of

00:18:53 ◼   ► these things would have been spread out a little earlier in the year, but like, you

00:18:57 ◼   ► know, can't make anything.

00:18:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, legacy nodes, et cetera.

00:19:03 ◼   ► - So we're gonna go through these

00:19:04 ◼   ► and we'll stop to talk about each product as we wish.

00:19:08 ◼   ► So again, some of the stuff we knew,

00:19:10 ◼   ► but it's good to get it recapped.

00:19:11 ◼   ► And again, some stuff it's like,

00:19:13 ◼   ► it's piecemeal across different people.

00:19:14 ◼   ► And then when Mark Gumm and puts it in this thing,

00:19:16 ◼   ► you're like, okay, he's done, he's reporting on it.

00:19:18 ◼   ► So anyway, four iPhone 14 models coming this year.

00:19:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's mostly what we knew.

00:19:25 ◼   ► - Two pro models, they'll have the always on display.

00:19:28 ◼   ► I'm already getting the feeling this is gonna be stage manager all over again, where it's

00:19:34 ◼   ► gonna be like, well, why can't my OLED display do the always unlock screen on my iPhone 13

00:19:41 ◼   ► or whatever?

00:19:42 ◼   ► Well, if this feature only is on the iPhone 14 Pro, they even have to explain it in the

00:19:47 ◼   ► context of their own brand new product announcements, right? And I'm confident they'll do it. Remember

00:19:52 ◼   ► when the Apple Watch Series 5 came out and they did the always on display and everybody

00:19:56 ◼   ► thought "wait you already had no LED display why can't you enable this across?" and they

00:20:00 ◼   ► said "oh no this required a new display hardware that let us control the frame rate and the

00:20:06 ◼   ► brightness in a very specific way and that's what unlocked this feature" and I'm sure that's

00:20:11 ◼   ► what they'll say about the iPhone 14 Pro and the always-on display.

00:20:15 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be easy to do it but like I know that there's gonna be they I want them

00:20:20 ◼   ► to be specific about it as much as they can be I think I saw some people talking about

00:20:24 ◼   ► the fact that the promotion display on the iPhone 13 Pro

00:20:28 ◼   ► goes down to a minimum, I think of 10 Hertz,

00:20:32 ◼   ► where the Apple watch is one.

00:20:35 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:20:36 ◼   ► - So.

00:20:36 ◼   ► - That may be their story is that we had to do a new screen

00:20:41 ◼   ► or a new screen controller that allowed us

00:20:42 ◼   ► to take the frame rate all the way down

00:20:44 ◼   ► so that the battery life would still be acceptable.

00:20:46 ◼   ► And that's why it's only in this one.

00:20:47 ◼   ► But like if this last announcement

00:20:50 ◼   ► has not taught Apple PR something,

00:20:53 ◼   ► I would be surprised about. Be very clear about why and do it in a boastful way, right?

00:20:58 ◼   ► Like that's when you're doing a product announcement, you should boast about look at this new thing

00:21:02 ◼   ► we did that enables this great new feature.

00:21:04 ◼   ► Give it a new name. You love to give screens names. Give it a new name.

00:21:07 ◼   ► Oh man, it's the it's the what would it even be the hibernation retina display or something.

00:21:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:21:15 ◼   ► What is the current one called?

00:21:16 ◼   ► Deep freeze retina display.

00:21:17 ◼   ► - Apple.com/iphone.

00:21:19 ◼   ► 'Cause they have like liquid retina display

00:21:22 ◼   ► and liquid retina display XDR,

00:21:25 ◼   ► all that kind of stuff, right?

00:21:26 ◼   ► So what do they call it right now?

00:21:28 ◼   ► - It'll be a liquid retina display ZZZ

00:21:31 ◼   ► 'cause it goes to sleep.

00:21:33 ◼   ► - Oh, well.

00:21:34 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:36 ◼   ► I really like that. - It's pronounced snore.

00:21:39 ◼   ► - I really like that.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Super retina XDR, super retina XDR.

00:21:44 ◼   ► - Well, this will be ultra retina XDR M

00:21:47 ◼   ► And the M stands for minimal lighting sometimes

00:21:50 ◼   ► or something, I don't know.

00:21:52 ◼   ► - Oh, as Zach has said, they also say with promotion

00:21:55 ◼   ► at the end, Super Retina XDR display.

00:21:57 ◼   ► - Okay, so this will be Super Retina XDR

00:21:59 ◼   ► with promotion and smart sleep or whatever,

00:22:03 ◼   ► eternal vigilance or whatever, yeah.

00:22:05 ◼   ► - Always on Retina XDR display, which is not a great name,

00:22:09 ◼   ► but they might go that way, right?

00:22:10 ◼   ► 'Cause they call the Apple Watch the always on display,

00:22:12 ◼   ► so who knows?

00:22:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, sure.

00:22:15 ◼   ► That screen will also have thinner bezels,

00:22:17 ◼   ► which is interesting.

00:22:18 ◼   ► I can't imagine I'm gonna notice that, but hey ho.

00:22:21 ◼   ► It will have an A16 chip, a 48 megapixel main camera.

00:22:25 ◼   ► I'm very excited for that.

00:22:27 ◼   ► I'm really intrigued.

00:22:28 ◼   ► I'm really intrigued by that.

00:22:30 ◼   ► - Apple improves its camera every year.

00:22:31 ◼   ► It doesn't do a megapixel leap every year.

00:22:33 ◼   ► That doesn't happen very often.

00:22:34 ◼   ► - Been a long time since they've done a megapixel jump.

00:22:38 ◼   ► I don't remember off the top of my head,

00:22:39 ◼   ► but it's many years.

00:22:40 ◼   ► - So I do that story now, apparently every year,

00:22:43 ◼   ► which is what's new in the new iPhone

00:22:45 ◼   ► based on the iPhone that you've currently got.

00:22:48 ◼   ► And so I have to look at the charts

00:22:49 ◼   ► and compare all the different versions of the iPhone

00:22:51 ◼   ► and sort of tell this story about what's new.

00:22:54 ◼   ► And that's one of the things that's jumped out at me

00:22:56 ◼   ► in working on that story is the,

00:22:59 ◼   ► sometimes they make a better camera with more,

00:23:03 ◼   ► more pixels or more focus pixels,

00:23:08 ◼   ► or there's a better processor or it's a larger sensor.

00:23:13 ◼   ► but what they haven't done in a very long time is leave what 12 megapixels behind. So

00:23:20 ◼   ► it's a big deal. I'm excited about that. Pill shaped face ID cut out. So removing the notch

00:23:28 ◼   ► and a better front facing camera with a hole punch cut out. So there'll be a pill shape

00:23:34 ◼   ► and then also a hole punch as well. Right. I've forgotten about this. So it'll be like

00:23:37 ◼   ► - Dot dash or dash dot, morse code,

00:23:40 ◼   ► you can decode which one that is.

00:23:42 ◼   ► - Then the regular phones, way fewer improvements.

00:23:47 ◼   ► They're gonna have the same processor as currently.

00:23:50 ◼   ► You know, I don't think they're gonna get the camera.

00:23:52 ◼   ► Obviously not gonna get the always on,

00:23:54 ◼   ► and the notches I assume gonna be there as well.

00:23:57 ◼   ► The biggest thing that's gonna happen in the regular phones

00:23:59 ◼   ► is that the mini will go away and then a larger phone,

00:24:03 ◼   ► which is a max sized phone,

00:24:06 ◼   ► will accompany the regular iPhone 14.

00:24:09 ◼   ► So it'll be iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Max.

00:24:11 ◼   ► That's gonna be the story in that phone this year, I guess.

00:24:15 ◼   ► - I had a thought about,

00:24:18 ◼   ► as somebody who's got the 13 mini,

00:24:20 ◼   ► if they replace the, if they don't do a 14 mini,

00:24:26 ◼   ► but they don't change the processor,

00:24:27 ◼   ► it's like as a 13 mini owner, I'll be like, okay,

00:24:32 ◼   ► that's fine. - You get another year.

00:24:34 ◼   ► - That's fine.

00:24:35 ◼   ► And it did actually occur to me that if Apple is gonna do this kind of like lagging processor

00:24:40 ◼   ► thing on the non-pro iPhone, that they could even do a cycle.

00:24:45 ◼   ► Depending on the sales levels, they could even do a cycle where they do a mini one year

00:24:49 ◼   ► and a max another year and they just go back and forth.

00:24:53 ◼   ► And they keep the other one in the price list and they just kind of keep rotating through

00:24:57 ◼   ► them because how new are they, really?

00:25:01 ◼   ► I mean, they'll have some new features, but like, if the processor is not changing as

00:25:06 ◼   ► much, maybe they will, maybe, I mean, I'm dreaming here, but like, I-

00:25:10 ◼   ► - You've moved into the bargaining stage?

00:25:13 ◼   ► - It's, yeah, no, I think I'm just still in denial.

00:25:17 ◼   ► I'm still in denial, but it'll give me another year with the 13th.

00:25:19 ◼   ► Although I have to admit the Pro model sounds so good that I'm curious about the 14 Pro,

00:25:29 ◼   ► But I'm, you know, I'm team 13 mini.

00:25:33 ◼   ► I hear it's not on a very high, high tier, but you know, that's for people who don't

00:25:37 ◼   ► know what they're talking about.

00:25:38 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:25:39 ◼   ► - All people that do.

00:25:40 ◼   ► - But probably not.

00:25:42 ◼   ► - Apple watch, three watches.

00:25:44 ◼   ► There'll be a series eight, which is gonna have the same system on a chip as the series

00:25:49 ◼   ► seven, which means it has the same system on a chip as the series six.

00:25:54 ◼   ► Mark Gomer thinks that there will be a new system on a chip

00:25:57 ◼   ► for the next Apple Watch.

00:26:00 ◼   ► - So I use my Apple Watch to do all sorts of things now,

00:26:04 ◼   ► you know, and I'm out there doing wireless,

00:26:06 ◼   ► streaming a podcast while doing fitness tracking

00:26:09 ◼   ► and all those things.

00:26:10 ◼   ► And I'll tell you, you know,

00:26:12 ◼   ► I'm sure that a new version of that chip would be nice.

00:26:15 ◼   ► I don't feel like the Apple Watch is slow.

00:26:19 ◼   ► - No.

00:26:20 ◼   ► - I feel like there's software stuff

00:26:22 ◼   ► that I wish that it did that they need to work on.

00:26:24 ◼   ► But like, if there was ever a product

00:26:26 ◼   ► where they could take three cycles off

00:26:27 ◼   ► of improving the processor at the center of it,

00:26:30 ◼   ► it's probably the Apple Watch.

00:26:32 ◼   ► - My expectation is they are,

00:26:35 ◼   ► they now will update the Apple Watch

00:26:37 ◼   ► when they have new capabilities that require a new chip.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Like it's not a performance thing, I feel like,

00:26:43 ◼   ► but it's like maybe there's new sensors

00:26:45 ◼   ► maybe coming in the Series 9.

00:26:47 ◼   ► And so they need a new chip for that,

00:26:49 ◼   ► or they're gonna change something

00:26:51 ◼   ► that would affect battery life or whatever.

00:26:53 ◼   ► But like if they're not adding anything new,

00:26:55 ◼   ► then why do they need to change the system?

00:26:58 ◼   ► - I would imagine that there's some features

00:26:59 ◼   ► that they really want to enable that they're not able to,

00:27:01 ◼   ► because they really want that next chip to enable them.

00:27:04 ◼   ► And I totally, I get it, I get it,

00:27:06 ◼   ► but I'm not too fussed about chip changes.

00:27:10 ◼   ► I'm more excited that we might finally get our,

00:27:12 ◼   ► you know, Apple Watch Super Sport Ultra.

00:27:15 ◼   ► - Rugged. - Rugged, yeah.

00:27:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm really intrigued about this.

00:27:18 ◼   ► So Mark's still talking about rugged model, but that's it.

00:27:21 ◼   ► There wasn't a lot of detail about the watches.

00:27:24 ◼   ► There has been rumors still abound

00:27:27 ◼   ► that there's going to be a design refresh, but nothing.

00:27:29 ◼   ► Nothing here in this report.

00:27:31 ◼   ► There will also be a new SE, same size, new chip.

00:27:34 ◼   ► I really want to see the SE

00:27:36 ◼   ► get an always-on display, personally.

00:27:38 ◼   ► I don't know what it's going to take for them to do that.

00:27:40 ◼   ► That needs to be a better value product

00:27:42 ◼   ► than it is right now.

00:27:44 ◼   ► M2 Max.

00:27:45 ◼   ► So a Mac Mini is on the way with an M2 Pro option,

00:27:50 ◼   ► which feels like a much needed place in the lineup, I think.

00:27:54 ◼   ► M2 Pro and M2 Max MacBook Pros are coming, obviously,

00:28:00 ◼   ► and M2 Ultra and M2 Extreme Mac Pro.

00:28:04 ◼   ► I love that name so much, and I hope they won't,

00:28:07 ◼   ► but I hope they like eighties brand it, you know?

00:28:09 ◼   ► Like it's like extreme, it's kind of like spray painted.

00:28:11 ◼   ► That's what I want to see, you know?

00:28:13 ◼   ► I know they're not going to do it,

00:28:14 ◼   ► but a boy can dream, you know?

00:28:16 ◼   ► - Well, I think having, finally having a model

00:28:19 ◼   ► that has an M2 with an M2 Pro, right?

00:28:21 ◼   ► Which never really happened in the M1 generation.

00:28:23 ◼   ► They were M1s or they were M1 Pro/Max.

00:28:27 ◼   ► Those were your choices.

00:28:28 ◼   ► So I like this.

00:28:30 ◼   ► And then it's interesting

00:28:31 ◼   ► 'cause there's no Max Studio described here,

00:28:34 ◼   ► but I like the idea in the long run

00:28:36 ◼   ► of having kind of the Mac mini,

00:28:37 ◼   ► which has the M2 and the M2 Pro,

00:28:39 ◼   ► and then it's got the Max Studio

00:28:40 ◼   ► that has the Max and the Ultra,

00:28:42 ◼   ► so that you've got a real continuity of desktop Max,

00:28:45 ◼   ► and then they need to do the same with iMacs,

00:28:47 ◼   ► and then it all kind of makes sense.

00:28:49 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:28:50 ◼   ► - Speaking of iMacs,

00:28:52 ◼   ► it seems like the next update might be the M3.

00:28:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's some vagueness in there,

00:28:59 ◼   ► but he seems to think that the iMac

00:29:01 ◼   ► is not on the M2 priority list.

00:29:04 ◼   ► I'm a little surprised by that.

00:29:05 ◼   ► He did say that there is a plan to do a higher end iMac.

00:29:10 ◼   ► And so I'm unclear in parsing his words.

00:29:14 ◼   ► - It might be that that new iMac could be a bigger iMac

00:29:17 ◼   ► it's an M3 enabled iMac coming at the end of 23 or halfway through 23.

00:29:23 ◼   ► It's also possible, depending on how you read it, it's also possible that there might be an M2

00:29:28 ◼   ► big iMac that's like an M2 Pro, but that the M1 iMac, the small iMac, might not get an update

00:29:37 ◼   ► until M3. But we'll see. There's a lot of M's. And then in the M3 Mac timeframe, it would be

00:29:47 ◼   ► be a update to the 13-inch MacBook Air, 15-inch MacBook Air, which we spoke about last time,

00:29:53 ◼   ► I think will be a studio, and then also a 12-inch laptop which is in development. Doesn't

00:29:58 ◼   ► know when that might happen, if it happened at all. When talking about the M2 chips, Mark

00:30:03 ◼   ► mentioned that Apple's headset, he expects it to have an M2 chip in it, which is interesting.

00:30:09 ◼   ► I had just assumed it would have a new chip. Right. Right? Like they do with some of the

00:30:14 ◼   ► other stuff, I just figured that they would want to make something more custom.

00:30:20 ◼   ► I don't know. Yeah, maybe, but I think that they've got, you know, they've got their mobile

00:30:24 ◼   ► and their desktop essentially chips and they, you know, do they need to do another variation

00:30:29 ◼   ► on it? And I guess this is the answer is they don't. I wonder if they looked at the A series

00:30:33 ◼   ► and was like, that's not enough. We'll put M series in here. Remember, it's still pretty

00:30:38 ◼   ► low powered chip. I just figured it would have been different,

00:30:40 ◼   ► a chip that's got way more graphics and neural stuff than raw processing and has

00:30:46 ◼   ► a lot of performance cores. That's kind of my imagination for a makeup of a chip

00:30:50 ◼   ► like that but I mean hey it's a really powerful chip right? Yeah.

00:30:56 ◼   ► Mark also mentioned 16 gigabytes of RAM which just feels funny and something

00:31:00 ◼   ► that you put on your face. There's a lot of RAM to go on the face. It's a computer on your face

00:31:04 ◼   ► that's what it is. New iPads confirming a base model iPad of USB-C 5G in an A14

00:31:11 ◼   ► chip. iPad Pros coming this year with M2 chips and then a bigger display iPad

00:31:17 ◼   ► Mark reckons between 14 to 15 inches. This feels like he doesn't really know

00:31:22 ◼   ► anything about this one. Yeah or at least he knows sort of vague things but not a

00:31:27 ◼   ► lot of confidence about it that there's a bigger iPad in the works and the

00:31:31 ◼   ► details are unclear, which is interesting because there was that other report, which

00:31:35 ◼   ► was maybe Ming-Chi Kuo who said that it was not a

00:31:38 ◼   ► >> Ross Young.

00:31:39 ◼   ► >> It was not.

00:31:40 ◼   ► >> Ross Young.

00:31:41 ◼   ► >> It was Ross Young because it was display related, wasn't it?

00:31:42 ◼   ► That it was not going to be an OLED.

00:31:43 ◼   ► It was going to be a different kind of display, which is what we made us say.

00:31:47 ◼   ► Maybe it's an iPad studio instead of an iPad Pro because it's a different set of features.

00:31:52 ◼   ► The base model getting USB-C too, that clears the USB-C out of the iPad.

00:31:55 ◼   ► It's like all USB-C and no more lightning.

00:31:59 ◼   ► And that's the direction they're going with everything, right?

00:32:01 ◼   ► - Right, I guess the, does the mini still have lightning?

00:32:03 ◼   ► - No, the mini's USB-C.

00:32:05 ◼   ► - Mini's USB-C too, yeah.

00:32:06 ◼   ► So they're just, they're clearing it out

00:32:08 ◼   ► and they'll do the same with the iPhone next year probably.

00:32:11 ◼   ► But- - I'll be so happy.

00:32:13 ◼   ► - And then the other thing Mark said

00:32:14 ◼   ► that I thought was funny is he said,

00:32:15 ◼   ► there'll be more, the new pro models will have more iPads

00:32:19 ◼   ► that support stage manager.

00:32:22 ◼   ► Like basically for Apple to say,

00:32:24 ◼   ► look at all these products we make

00:32:25 ◼   ► that do support stage manager.

00:32:27 ◼   ► - I also just like that in this article,

00:32:29 ◼   ► because again, this is taken from Mark's newsletter.

00:32:32 ◼   ► So it's more personalized really.

00:32:35 ◼   ► And he's just in his site, he's like,

00:32:36 ◼   ► "I don't like it, I don't like stage manager."

00:32:38 ◼   ► And just a really funny aside to me,

00:32:40 ◼   ► he's like, "No, I don't like it,

00:32:41 ◼   ► "I don't think they did a good job."

00:32:42 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:32:43 ◼   ► - What's fascinating about Mark is that Mark

00:32:47 ◼   ► has good sources and he does good reporting.

00:32:49 ◼   ► And then in the newsletter especially,

00:32:50 ◼   ► they want him to insert a little bit, or he wants to,

00:32:53 ◼   ► insert a little bit more of his voice.

00:32:55 ◼   ► So he has some opinions in there.

00:32:57 ◼   ► And I don't entirely agree with his opinions,

00:33:00 ◼   ► but his sources are impeccable.

00:33:01 ◼   ► So, you know, just kind of, yeah, but it is funny.

00:33:04 ◼   ► Well, he did that one a few weeks ago

00:33:06 ◼   ► where he was sort of like really mad

00:33:07 ◼   ► because some product he had didn't work.

00:33:11 ◼   ► It was like, okay, I guess we're reading about this now, but-

00:33:14 ◼   ► - Well, it's his newsletter, right?

00:33:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:33:17 ◼   ► - This is the different part, I like it.

00:33:20 ◼   ► New AirPods Pro, updated chips and stuff,

00:33:23 ◼   ► support for lossless, well, Mark says high quality audio.

00:33:27 ◼   ► I'm assuming this is lossless.

00:33:29 ◼   ► New HomePod!

00:33:30 ◼   ► Yeah, how about that?

00:33:33 ◼   ► S8 chip.

00:33:34 ◼   ► Now that is the chip that is in the watch?

00:33:41 ◼   ► Oh, I don't even know.

00:33:44 ◼   ► Because that...

00:33:45 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:33:46 ◼   ► Closer to the original in size and sound, with an updated display on the top, possibly support

00:33:57 ◼   ► for multi-touch. All of that last part will seem very odd to me, but I'm into this. I

00:34:03 ◼   ► want more than a Mini because I like my big HomePods. And so I'm happy that they are going

00:34:09 ◼   ► back to not all Mini. And maybe this will be a better priced, more compelling product

00:34:16 ◼   ► for more people than the original. Two thumbs up from me.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Yeah. And I like the idea. So one of the things that I hate about the original HomePod is

00:34:25 ◼   ► I hate the display because it's just for show.

00:34:29 ◼   ► It does very little that's useful.

00:34:32 ◼   ► It's just kind of there for show.

00:34:33 ◼   ► And remember there were a lot of rumors

00:34:34 ◼   ► that it would be an actual display

00:34:36 ◼   ► and it ends up, it's just kind of like some lights.

00:34:38 ◼   ► So I'm curious if they will try to do something

00:34:41 ◼   ► that's a little bit more complex than that

00:34:43 ◼   ► in terms of the display on top.

00:34:45 ◼   ► And then different touch gestures.

00:34:48 ◼   ► One of the big problems with the HomePod I found,

00:34:50 ◼   ► especially because I have one of my HomePods

00:34:53 ◼   ► is kind of high up is you can't do it by feel at all,

00:34:57 ◼   ► because there are little spaces on the top of the HomePod

00:35:01 ◼   ► to go louder and quieter, and you have to hit them.

00:35:05 ◼   ► Otherwise it doesn't work.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And if you can't see them and you can't feel them,

00:35:09 ◼   ► you can't hit them.

00:35:10 ◼   ► So a multi-touch or new set of touch gestures

00:35:14 ◼   ► for a HomePod I think is good,

00:35:16 ◼   ► 'cause I would really like to be able to control a HomePod

00:35:19 ◼   ► without having to hit a very precise thing

00:35:22 ◼   ► on a device that I might not be able to see

00:35:24 ◼   ► the control surface of.

00:35:25 ◼   ► Like if you can imagine maybe pressing

00:35:27 ◼   ► and winding clockwise or counterclockwise

00:35:29 ◼   ► to adjust the volume or something like that,

00:35:31 ◼   ► or swiping across to do next track or stuff like that,

00:35:35 ◼   ► I would think that that would be a better HomePod interface.

00:35:39 ◼   ► - And a new Apple TV, but don't get excited.

00:35:43 ◼   ► - Yay.

00:35:44 ◼   ► - It's gonna get a new chip and one more gigabyte RAM.

00:35:46 ◼   ► Just like purely like just the usual,

00:35:49 ◼   ► like we're doing things or games are doing things

00:35:52 ◼   ► and they need a little bit more headway.

00:35:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, we're running out of that old chip.

00:35:55 ◼   ► So we're putting in this new chip that we're gonna,

00:35:58 ◼   ► like again, this is Apple as a recycler.

00:36:00 ◼   ► They've got products where they don't need

00:36:03 ◼   ► to make a new thing for it.

00:36:05 ◼   ► They just stick in the old thing.

00:36:06 ◼   ► And as they're managing their inventory of those things,

00:36:11 ◼   ► they look and say, okay,

00:36:12 ◼   ► why don't we put the A14 in this now?

00:36:13 ◼   ► Okay, let's do that.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Yeah, let's do that.

00:36:15 ◼   ► - That's a lot of stuff, man.

00:36:18 ◼   ► I'm excited about a lot of this.

00:36:20 ◼   ► There's a lot of things in here.

00:36:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, all those Macs, right?

00:36:22 ◼   ► All the Macs are really interesting.

00:36:24 ◼   ► - That iPhone sounds really good.

00:36:27 ◼   ► - If iPhone sounds really good and the new Macs,

00:36:29 ◼   ► we've been talking for a while about how Apple Silicon

00:36:31 ◼   ► could really like give Apple a chance

00:36:34 ◼   ► to redefine the Mac line,

00:36:35 ◼   ► 'cause it was so defined based on Intel specs before.

00:36:38 ◼   ► And they've started to do that,

00:36:39 ◼   ► but we're just really at the start of that process now

00:36:41 ◼   ► with the iMac and the larger MacBook Pros,

00:36:45 ◼   ► and now the MacBook Air.

00:36:47 ◼   ► but there's more to be done in terms of the chip rollouts

00:36:51 ◼   ► and the designs of the system.

00:36:53 ◼   ► So, could be a real interesting time for the Mac,

00:36:56 ◼   ► maybe the iPad, and then definitely those new Pro iPhones

00:37:00 ◼   ► are gonna be really interesting.

00:37:02 ◼   ► - This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Fitbaud.

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00:39:20 ◼   ► So there's a new Mac in town, the M2 MacBook Pro.

00:39:24 ◼   ► - Yay!

00:39:27 ◼   ► - You summed it up so beautifully.

00:39:28 ◼   ► We called it out on Connected,

00:39:30 ◼   ► called this a classic Jason Snell headline.

00:39:32 ◼   ► The future wrapped in the past was the headline

00:39:35 ◼   ► that you came up with.

00:39:36 ◼   ► And I love it.

00:39:38 ◼   ► I love it.

00:39:39 ◼   ► Do you wanna,

00:39:40 ◼   ► is there anything specific you wanted to talk about

00:39:42 ◼   ► in regards to the M2 MacBook Pro?

00:39:44 ◼   ► - I mean, what I said in the article

00:39:48 ◼   ► is that there are three ways of looking at the MacBook Pro

00:39:50 ◼   ► and they're all correct.

00:39:51 ◼   ► One of them is, it's the debut of the M2

00:39:52 ◼   ► and the M2 is really interesting

00:39:54 ◼   ► 'cause it's the first time Apple has done an update

00:39:58 ◼   ► to its processors in the Mac.

00:39:59 ◼   ► And while that seems a little esoteric,

00:40:00 ◼   ► We have been, first question was,

00:40:02 ◼   ► what are Apple processors gonna look like in the Mac?

00:40:05 ◼   ► But the next question is, what happens after that?

00:40:07 ◼   ► How do they then cycle through

00:40:09 ◼   ► and do it again and do it again?

00:40:10 ◼   ► And the M2 is sort of lifting the curtain on that.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Second one is, why does this thing look like,

00:40:18 ◼   ► not look like all of Apple's other current laptops?

00:40:20 ◼   ► It is a refugee from the past, it looks very 2016.

00:40:24 ◼   ► It hasn't gotten any of the updates

00:40:26 ◼   ► and therefore it seems really like something

00:40:29 ◼   ► from a bygone era.

00:40:30 ◼   ► And then the third observation is out of context,

00:40:34 ◼   ► without knowing what else is going on

00:40:35 ◼   ► in Apple's product line, it's a thin, light,

00:40:39 ◼   ► reasonably priced for Apple, powerful laptop.

00:40:43 ◼   ► And so like out of context, it seems fine and normal,

00:40:48 ◼   ► but you have to pretend that Apple hasn't pushed

00:40:51 ◼   ► the other products, other laptops that it makes forward

00:40:55 ◼   ► in order to think that way.

00:40:58 ◼   ► And all of these things are true.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Like again, if you get one of these and you use it,

00:41:02 ◼   ► it's not bad, it's actually good.

00:41:05 ◼   ► It's just not the state of the art from Apple anymore.

00:41:08 ◼   ► It's this recycled kind of old enclosure

00:41:11 ◼   ► and old technology with a new chip at its heart.

00:41:14 ◼   ► So as a result, I think the chip is by far

00:41:16 ◼   ► the most interesting thing about the product.

00:41:18 ◼   ► And it's not, although, look,

00:41:21 ◼   ► I don't wanna overstate the caveats

00:41:23 ◼   ► because there are a few caveats.

00:41:25 ◼   ► There are a few people for whom this product

00:41:28 ◼   ► is one that makes sense, but I don't want to give that too much oxygen because the truth

00:41:34 ◼   ► is it's almost nobody. This is a product that I would not personally recommend to anyone

00:41:40 ◼   ► because there are better options. There are better options for the same price, the MacBook

00:41:45 ◼   ► Air that comes out next month. There are better options in the MacBook Pro line, the ones

00:41:50 ◼   ► that are more expensive and a whole generation better in terms of everything about them other

00:41:55 ◼   ► than the chip, and the chip is still faster because the high-end chips of M1 are faster

00:42:00 ◼   ► than the M2 base.

00:42:01 ◼   ► And I guess if you could get a good deal on an M1 MacBook Pro and you wanted that, that's

00:42:07 ◼   ► probably also still very good for you, you know?

00:42:10 ◼   ► Yeah, the M2 as a processor is like what we've seen in the march of the A-series processors.

00:42:14 ◼   ► The M2 is faster, but it's not, you know, amazingly faster. It's faster. It's got the

00:42:20 ◼   ► next generation core from the A15, and so the A14. It's got the next generation neural

00:42:24 ◼   ► engine, next generation GPUs, it's got the video encoders from the M2 high-end, it's

00:42:30 ◼   ► got the memory system that the high-end M1s had, and so it's got better memory and faster

00:42:36 ◼   ► storage and it's got lots of things about it. But the fact is most people are not coming

00:42:40 ◼   ► from an M1 anything to this. They would be coming from an Intel something to this, and

00:42:47 ◼   ► that's where you get your big leap. So the truth is if you're going from an Intel something

00:42:52 ◼   ► to a refurbished or cheaper M1 laptop that's still for sale, you're still going to get

00:42:58 ◼   ► the bulk of that great leap and save some money. So that's also true. Yeah.

00:43:05 ◼   ► - I guess it's price points, right? Like this is just, it hits a price point. That's why

00:43:09 ◼   ► this product exists. They can't make the 14 or won't make the 14 for what the 13 costs.

00:43:15 ◼   ► So until they can, the 13 exists. - The more people I talk to about this, the

00:43:21 ◼   ► stories I hear about what I already kind of intuited but I think is absolutely the case,

00:43:26 ◼   ► which is this product exists because some people will only buy a product, a laptop with

00:43:32 ◼   ► Pro on it. They will only buy a MacBook Pro. They don't see themselves as MacBook Air people.

00:43:38 ◼   ► They want a serious laptop and they want the Pro. But I think that when I say people, the

00:43:44 ◼   ► truth is it's mostly not people. The truth is I think it's mostly corporate buyers. I

00:43:50 ◼   ► think they're corporate IT groups and Apple sells a lot of laptops to corporations and

00:43:55 ◼   ► corporate IT groups are like, "I don't want the MacBook Air. That's a consumer system.

00:43:59 ◼   ► I want the MacBook Pro." They stand behind it. Those are serious tools. And I heard from

00:44:04 ◼   ► people who are like, "Yeah, I asked my company to buy me a MacBook Air and they said, 'I

00:44:08 ◼   ► got you something better,' and it was the 13-inch MacBook Pro." And they're like, "Uh,

00:44:12 ◼   ► no, it's not better." But it's got the name on it and the IT people won't buy the Air,

00:44:18 ◼   ► they'll buy the Pro. And I think, yes, historically there are probably some things about buying

00:44:23 ◼   ► consumer laptops in general, including not from Apple, versus buying ones that use professional

00:44:28 ◼   ► parts and are professional laptops. I think in truth, there's no difference between buying

00:44:33 ◼   ► an M2 MacBook Air and an M2 MacBook Pro once the Air is available. I don't really think

00:44:37 ◼   ► there is an appreciable difference there. But the name matters. The name is important.

00:44:42 ◼   ► And if you're a company that's standardized on that name and you're not willing to buy

00:44:47 ◼   ► that person a $2,000 laptop, well, guess what?

00:44:50 ◼   ► There's a $1,200 laptop that you can get

00:44:53 ◼   ► that is also a MacBook Pro.

00:44:56 ◼   ► And so I think that's why it's Apple's number two seller

00:44:59 ◼   ► of laptops is mostly for corporate sales.

00:45:02 ◼   ► And I think that's gonna only increase now

00:45:04 ◼   ► because at least in, there was a little more differentiation

00:45:09 ◼   ► or a little less differentiation, I guess,

00:45:11 ◼   ► in the M1 generation where the Air also didn't have MagSafe.

00:45:14 ◼   ► Right, like it also was an old design.

00:45:17 ◼   ► But now the Air is the new design and the Pro 13-inch is not.

00:45:21 ◼   ► And so there's even less of a reason

00:45:24 ◼   ► to choose it over the Air.

00:45:25 ◼   ► So yeah, I think it's for price point.

00:45:27 ◼   ► So Apple can say the MacBook Pro starts at $1,200,

00:45:31 ◼   ► even though it doesn't.

00:45:32 ◼   ► The 1200, I forget exactly what the price is,

00:45:35 ◼   ► but it's a low price and then it's $1,999 for the MacBook 14.

00:45:40 ◼   ► And so yeah, $1,299, so it's not even $1,200.

00:45:44 ◼   ► $1,300 is a lot less than 2,000, right?

00:45:49 ◼   ► I mean, that's a lot of money.

00:45:51 ◼   ► That's $700 on a product that's $1,300.

00:45:54 ◼   ► So it's a huge leap.

00:45:57 ◼   ► And if you're saying to yourself,

00:45:58 ◼   ► well, why doesn't Apple make a new version of the 13

00:46:01 ◼   ► with the new technology?

00:46:02 ◼   ► And I have two thoughts about that.

00:46:04 ◼   ► One is they did, it's the MacBook Pro 14.

00:46:08 ◼   ► And two is if they did it,

00:46:12 ◼   ► they'd have to charge a lot more.

00:46:14 ◼   ► even if they did a stripped down version.

00:46:15 ◼   ► - I mean the MacBook Air is also though, right?

00:46:17 ◼   ► - Right, they wanna keep their margins for the MacBook Pro

00:46:21 ◼   ► and yet they also know that there's a limit

00:46:24 ◼   ► to how many they're gonna sell

00:46:25 ◼   ► if they push that MacBook Pro starting price up above 1299.

00:46:29 ◼   ► And they're not willing to say,

00:46:30 ◼   ► you can't buy into the MacBook Pro for less than two grand.

00:46:34 ◼   ► So this product exists.

00:46:36 ◼   ► And I think nobody's happy about it.

00:46:39 ◼   ► I would argue that the people at Apple

00:46:41 ◼   ► don't like this product either,

00:46:43 ◼   ► but they have to make it.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Even though it's old and it doesn't have any of the stuff

00:46:47 ◼   ► that they push forward with the laptops

00:46:49 ◼   ► the last couple of years,

00:46:50 ◼   ► they're stuck with it because they want to keep the margins

00:46:54 ◼   ► and they know it sells

00:46:55 ◼   ► and they know they can't raise that price.

00:46:56 ◼   ► And so here we are,

00:46:59 ◼   ► even though the Air comparably configured is the same price

00:47:03 ◼   ► and is an advanced version of this with the same chip

00:47:07 ◼   ► and yes, battery and a fan,

00:47:09 ◼   ► but most people won't care about the differences.

00:47:12 ◼   ► And the positive differences are so great.

00:47:15 ◼   ► So it's here, it is what it is.

00:47:18 ◼   ► I don't know if anybody's gonna ever be excited about it,

00:47:21 ◼   ► but a lot of people are gonna get them.

00:47:23 ◼   ► And if you're one of those people

00:47:24 ◼   ► whose work buys them a MacBook Pro

00:47:25 ◼   ► and you're very excited you're getting an M2 MacBook Pro

00:47:27 ◼   ► and you get it and it's this thing, it'll be fine.

00:47:31 ◼   ► But it also won't feel appreciably different

00:47:32 ◼   ► than that laptop you got in the late 2010s,

00:47:35 ◼   ► 'cause it's basically the same, touch bar and all.

00:47:38 ◼   ► - So the 1299 model comes with a 256 gigabyte SSD,

00:47:42 ◼   ► that's what it starts at.

00:47:44 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:47:45 ◼   ► - I saw some reports over the weekend

00:47:47 ◼   ► that there are some YouTubers who have tested this machine

00:47:49 ◼   ► and have realized that this 256 base model

00:47:53 ◼   ► has a slower SSD than the M1 MacBook Pro.

00:47:56 ◼   ► It's around 50% slower at reading, 30% slower at writing.

00:48:01 ◼   ► Upon disassembly, it appears that this machine--

00:48:05 ◼   ► - Than the M1 13?

00:48:06 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:48:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, wow. - Yeah, yeah.

00:48:09 ◼   ► The product it replaces.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Upon disassembly, it appears that this machine

00:48:13 ◼   ► has a single NAND flash storage chip

00:48:16 ◼   ► where the previous model had two.

00:48:18 ◼   ► - Had two.

00:48:19 ◼   ► - So that's why it's slower.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I was wondering, legacy notes?

00:48:23 ◼   ► I don't know, like what's the,

00:48:24 ◼   ► this could be, I don't know what the reason is.

00:48:27 ◼   ► I will say just as a side again,

00:48:29 ◼   ► like going back to that,

00:48:30 ◼   ► like the whole point around this machine,

00:48:32 ◼   ► I think 256 gigabyte is not enough for a computer today

00:48:35 ◼   ► that is a pro machine.

00:48:36 ◼   ► Like I think-

00:48:37 ◼   ► - And yet here we are because of the compromises

00:48:40 ◼   ► that are made in order to get this to hit the price point.

00:48:43 ◼   ► And yeah, I agree.

00:48:45 ◼   ► I mean, and again, it's not like,

00:48:47 ◼   ► it's not like 1299, even the base price

00:48:53 ◼   ► is not a real price, right?

00:48:54 ◼   ► 'Cause then you're gonna spec it up,

00:48:55 ◼   ► but it gets you in the door.

00:48:56 ◼   ► And I think like that IT person who's like,

00:48:58 ◼   ► "Well, yeah, I don't like that configuration,

00:49:00 ◼   ► but then I can do a custom configuration

00:49:01 ◼   ► and I can get it to 1599 and I'm happy with that.

00:49:04 ◼   ► and it's still not 20, or 1999.

00:49:06 ◼   ► So it's not a real price,

00:49:09 ◼   ► but it's a real base that allows you to get in.

00:49:11 ◼   ► I agree.

00:49:12 ◼   ► I mean, everything about this system is compromised.

00:49:14 ◼   ► By the way, for the record, I have the one terabyte model

00:49:17 ◼   ► and I don't have an M113 MacBook Pro to compare it to.

00:49:19 ◼   ► So I'm glad people are out there doing that work.

00:49:21 ◼   ► - Apparently this is only on the lowest,

00:49:25 ◼   ► the 256 is the only place where there is this difference

00:49:28 ◼   ► in SSD speed.

00:49:29 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:49:30 ◼   ► Which is the base model, which you probably, yeah.

00:49:32 ◼   ► - No reviewers have sent this model.

00:49:34 ◼   ► No reviewers have ever sent this model.

00:49:35 ◼   ► - Shocker.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Yeah, no, you're never, well,

00:49:38 ◼   ► sometimes you're sent the base model,

00:49:39 ◼   ► but mostly you're not because Apple doesn't want to do that.

00:49:43 ◼   ► They want the reviewers to have this great experience.

00:49:45 ◼   ► I compared it to my M1 Air,

00:49:46 ◼   ► and it's a step up, but it's moderate.

00:49:52 ◼   ► And again, I would just hold out for the M2 Air

00:49:54 ◼   ► if you're gonna go that direction.

00:49:56 ◼   ► But most people just, I wanna remind everybody again,

00:49:59 ◼   ► Most people do not upgrade from an M1 to an M2, right?

00:50:02 ◼   ► Because that's one generation.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Like most people are not gonna do that.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Most people are still who are gonna buy this system

00:50:08 ◼   ► and buy the Air, they are coming from Intel.

00:50:11 ◼   ► And I ran some speed tests on Intel on my iMac Pro,

00:50:16 ◼   ► but also on Lauren's 2018 MacBook Air.

00:50:21 ◼   ► Yeah, somewhere between six and 15 times, times faster,

00:50:27 ◼   ► not 60%, six times faster, some cases 10 times faster.

00:50:32 ◼   ► It is, that's the leap,

00:50:35 ◼   ► because that's the Apple Silicon leap.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And anybody who still hasn't gone to Apple Silicon,

00:50:39 ◼   ► a lot of people talk to big talk about like,

00:50:41 ◼   ► oh, I'm not gonna ever do the first generation of a chip.

00:50:43 ◼   ► Like if those people are like holding out still,

00:50:45 ◼   ► well, M2 is gonna give you everything

00:50:48 ◼   ► that the jump to M1 would have given you and more,

00:50:50 ◼   ► and that's what most people are gonna buy.

00:50:52 ◼   ► But like this laptop, it's just not that exciting.

00:50:54 ◼   ► - If you've got an Intel MacBook Pro 13 inch,

00:50:57 ◼   ► you should be upgrading to the new MacBook Air.

00:50:59 ◼   ► You should not be upgrading to this machine.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Like you will get a new design, you will get new features,

00:51:05 ◼   ► you will get more ports.

00:51:06 ◼   ► - You get an extra port because if you charge your laptop

00:51:11 ◼   ► on this one, you lose one of the two ports that it's got.

00:51:15 ◼   ► Whereas on the Air, if you charge your laptop,

00:51:18 ◼   ► you still have two ports on it.

00:51:20 ◼   ► - The true replacement for the Intel 13 inch MacBook Pro.

00:51:22 ◼   ► - Extra screen space because the menu bar

00:51:27 ◼   ► creeps up around the webcam.

00:51:29 ◼   ► You get a better webcam.

00:51:30 ◼   ► This console has the 720p webcam in it.

00:51:33 ◼   ► - Yes, bad computer, get a MacBook Air.

00:51:36 ◼   ► That is the upgrade guarantee.

00:51:39 ◼   ► - It's not a bad computer,

00:51:42 ◼   ► but it's using outmoded technology

00:51:46 ◼   ► that Apple's only selling to hit a price point.

00:51:48 ◼   ► And there's another product at the same price point.

00:51:52 ◼   ► that does this better.

00:51:55 ◼   ► So unless you just, again,

00:51:58 ◼   ► are in one of those deep edge cases,

00:52:00 ◼   ► like just don't, if you're listening to upgrade,

00:52:02 ◼   ► like don't do it, just don't do it.

00:52:03 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's like we were talking about this too, right?

00:52:06 ◼   ► Like people say like it's got a fan in it, which is true.

00:52:08 ◼   ► But if you are doing work at a sustained level

00:52:13 ◼   ► on a MacBook Pro M2,

00:52:17 ◼   ► where you need the fan

00:52:18 ◼   ► because of the difference the fan's gonna make,

00:52:20 ◼   ► you have to push these chips so far,

00:52:23 ◼   ► you also shouldn't be using this machine

00:52:26 ◼   ► 'cause it's not good enough for you.

00:52:27 ◼   ► - Like I said, those are the edge cases.

00:52:30 ◼   ► It makes sense if you're somebody

00:52:31 ◼   ► for whom battery is the highest priority,

00:52:34 ◼   ► that you don't care about the ports

00:52:35 ◼   ► and all the other things that the Air does better.

00:52:37 ◼   ► And if you're pushing the GPU as hard as that

00:52:40 ◼   ► to make it really throttle on the non-fan-based system,

00:52:45 ◼   ► I would say to you, what work are you doing to do that?

00:52:48 ◼   ► And could you go up in price?

00:52:52 ◼   ► Can you afford to go up in price and get the 14 inch model?

00:52:55 ◼   ► Because if you're pushing your GPU that hard,

00:52:58 ◼   ► you really should get the 14 inch one if you can afford it.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And I'm not sure there are many people out there

00:53:04 ◼   ► buying the low end MacBook Pro to do graphics work

00:53:09 ◼   ► that is so high end that they push it to that limit.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Like I am, again, I'm sure there are edge cases.

00:53:17 ◼   ► I'm sure there are people who can barely afford

00:53:20 ◼   ► the base model and are gonna push it to the limits

00:53:23 ◼   ► and are gonna be happy with it.

00:53:25 ◼   ► But I would argue that if you care so much

00:53:29 ◼   ► about that extra headroom because of the fan,

00:53:31 ◼   ► you might wanna save your money

00:53:34 ◼   ► and wait until you've got enough money to buy the 14 inch

00:53:38 ◼   ► because it's just gonna be so much better on every level.

00:53:43 ◼   ► So that's why I'm skeptical of how large the edge cases are

00:53:46 ◼   ► for this. I want to be fair to the product and say yes, it does have some benefits, but

00:53:50 ◼   ► I really don't believe many people would, who fit that model exist. I just don't believe

00:53:56 ◼   ► it.

00:53:57 ◼   ► So it's the summer of fun. So we're going to do something weird today. We're going to

00:54:03 ◼   ► do what I'm calling the iPhone stats check. I have accumulated a variety of things that

00:54:11 ◼   ► have numbers attached to them about iPhones that you can get from poking around inside

00:54:18 ◼   ► of the iPhone, we're going to compare our stats. So, starting out with, how many apps

00:54:25 ◼   ► do you have installed on your iPhone, Jason Stell?

00:54:28 ◼   ► Right, can we start with what our phone is?

00:54:30 ◼   ► Oh yeah, that's a good stat.

00:54:32 ◼   ► The greatest stat of all?

00:54:33 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. What is your phone?

00:54:35 ◼   ► Mine's an iPhone 13 mini in blue. That's what it is?

00:54:40 ◼   ► - I have a iPhone 13 Pro Max in gold,

00:54:44 ◼   ► AKA the best phone.

00:54:47 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:54:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:54:50 ◼   ► - How many apps do you have installed?

00:54:51 ◼   ► - Thank you, my phone is the best phone, thank you.

00:54:54 ◼   ► I have 105 apps installed.

00:54:56 ◼   ► - Okay, I have 323.

00:54:59 ◼   ► - Seems a bit extreme.

00:55:02 ◼   ► - There's some numbers in here, I saw them,

00:55:04 ◼   ► I was like, why?

00:55:05 ◼   ► - Well, once App Library exists, right?

00:55:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's all there, man.

00:55:10 ◼   ► You can just not delete apps and they just are there.

00:55:13 ◼   ► And then if you turn on the setting that offloads them,

00:55:15 ◼   ► if you don't use them, they're still there,

00:55:18 ◼   ► but they're not actually there.

00:55:19 ◼   ► - I mean, I don't do the offloading.

00:55:20 ◼   ► - So you can really go to town.

00:55:21 ◼   ► - Because I have a 512 gigabyte iPhone,

00:55:24 ◼   ► which is important for the next question

00:55:27 ◼   ► of how many gigabytes of your iPhone is used.

00:55:30 ◼   ► - Well, I only have 128 gigabyte iPhone and I'm using 81.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Well, you can only get so much storage in that little phone,

00:55:41 ◼   ► you know, it's small, so you can just like small chips.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Makes sense.

00:55:45 ◼   ► I'm using 292 gigabytes of my iPhone storage.

00:55:49 ◼   ► - That's a lot.

00:55:51 ◼   ► I guess when your capacity goes up, your usage goes up too.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, the reason that I went with the 512 is that my,

00:56:00 ◼   ► whenever it was that I went from 256 to 512,

00:56:03 ◼   ► I was already starting to push up towards 256.

00:56:06 ◼   ► And I'm like, okay, I don't want to ever think about this.

00:56:09 ◼   ► I'm just gonna go 512, now I'm on 512.

00:56:12 ◼   ► It's gonna be a long time before I need to go up from there.

00:56:16 ◼   ► - When I was buying this phone,

00:56:18 ◼   ► I looked at what my usage was on my previous phone

00:56:20 ◼   ► and I realized that I couldn't use, 128 would be fine.

00:56:25 ◼   ► I'll put it that way, was not an issue.

00:56:29 ◼   ► So I saved a little money.

00:56:31 ◼   ► - One of my reasons is I have all my photos and videos

00:56:35 ◼   ► save locally to my device.

00:56:36 ◼   ► - I don't, iCloud, photo library.

00:56:40 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, we'll get to why in a minute,

00:56:42 ◼   ► but that's one of the things for me,

00:56:44 ◼   ► like I have mine and that's a huge,

00:56:46 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't need to, I just want to.

00:56:49 ◼   ► And so I do.

00:56:50 ◼   ► How many songs do you have on your iPhone?

00:56:53 ◼   ► - I have 533.

00:56:59 ◼   ► I believe this only counts ones that are downloaded

00:57:02 ◼   ► to music.

00:57:03 ◼   ► - I'm expecting so, yes.

00:57:05 ◼   ► I'm at 950, I don't know why, but that's what I'm at.

00:57:10 ◼   ► I think maybe the phone's just downloading a bunch of stuff

00:57:13 ◼   ► on its own, right?

00:57:14 ◼   ► 'Cause I have the storage space.

00:57:15 ◼   ► - I have, well, what I do is I have a bunch of playlists

00:57:19 ◼   ► and stuff that I've marked as download for--

00:57:22 ◼   ► - I've done some of that too, but I think the phone's--

00:57:24 ◼   ► - For airplane trips, basically.

00:57:27 ◼   ► - That's exactly why I have mine too.

00:57:29 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:57:30 ◼   ► - How many videos are on your device?

00:57:32 ◼   ► - 2,517.

00:57:34 ◼   ► - Right, and then obviously,

00:57:36 ◼   ► this is where the thing is a little complicated,

00:57:38 ◼   ► but like that's not what you've got downloaded,

00:57:40 ◼   ► but that's just what the device can see, right?

00:57:43 ◼   ► - So videos is a weird one,

00:57:44 ◼   ► 'cause I was like, why do I have that many?

00:57:46 ◼   ► And I thought, do I have TV shows?

00:57:47 ◼   ► Do I have movies?

00:57:48 ◼   ► Why do I have 2000 movies on this little tiny...

00:57:49 ◼   ► The answer is that this is an iCloud photo library number,

00:57:53 ◼   ► or at least includes iCloud photo library,

00:57:56 ◼   ► and it doesn't have to be local for it to be counted.

00:57:59 ◼   ► So that includes all the videos that I've ever shot

00:58:02 ◼   ► that are in my iCloud photo library.

00:58:04 ◼   ► - I thought my number was high, which is 697.

00:58:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:10 ◼   ► - It turns out it's nothing.

00:58:12 ◼   ► - I mentioned having all my photos downloaded.

00:58:16 ◼   ► I have 15,651 photos on my iPhone.

00:58:21 ◼   ► Jason, how many photos are on your iPhone?

00:58:24 ◼   ► - 94,000.

00:58:25 ◼   ► - Is that exactly?

00:58:27 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:58:28 ◼   ► - That's unbelievable.

00:58:30 ◼   ► - Well, I've got news for you.

00:58:31 ◼   ► I took that picture for something

00:58:33 ◼   ► that'll be in the pro show today,

00:58:36 ◼   ► Upgrade Plus about, yes, well,

00:58:39 ◼   ► the pro show is how connected refers to it.

00:58:41 ◼   ► So I'm just using the jargon, the vernacular.

00:58:43 ◼   ► I mentioned as people will hear in Upgrade Plus

00:58:46 ◼   ► that I got some new key caps for my keyboard

00:58:47 ◼   ► and I took a picture.

00:58:49 ◼   ► I had already done the numbers.

00:58:50 ◼   ► So I'm excited to report that having taken the picture

00:58:52 ◼   ► of my keyboard and posted it to the members Slack,

00:58:55 ◼   ► I'm now at 94,001.

00:58:58 ◼   ► - Your name is a love of the place today.

00:59:00 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:59:01 ◼   ► - I'm counting photos, Myke.

00:59:02 ◼   ► I got no time for anything but counting photos at this point.

00:59:05 ◼   ► My point is I was at 94,000 when you asked me this question,

00:59:09 ◼   ► but now I'm at 94,001 because I took a picture

00:59:11 ◼   ► of my keyboard.

00:59:12 ◼   ► - Unbelievable.

00:59:13 ◼   ► That's such a huge number.

00:59:14 ◼   ► - And that's iCloud Photo Library.

00:59:15 ◼   ► Again, those aren't on the device.

00:59:17 ◼   ► They're an iCloud Photo Library,

00:59:18 ◼   ► but I just went over to my Photos app on my Mac

00:59:20 ◼   ► and it is a similar, although not exactly the same,

00:59:24 ◼   ► of course, 'cause it's iCloud Photo Library number.

00:59:27 ◼   ► - I wonder how big your iPhone would need to be

00:59:29 ◼   ► to hold your iCloud photo library database?

00:59:32 ◼   ► Click down on it.

00:59:33 ◼   ► - Well, the iCloud photo library itself

00:59:35 ◼   ► is many gigabytes.

00:59:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:59:41 ◼   ► - So-- - No joke.

00:59:43 ◼   ► - It's like a terabyte or something, I don't know.

00:59:44 ◼   ► It's a lot.

00:59:45 ◼   ► It doesn't fit.

00:59:47 ◼   ► It's on my server.

00:59:47 ◼   ► That's where it lives, in iCloud.

00:59:49 ◼   ► - How many home screens do you have,

00:59:51 ◼   ► including hidden home screens?

00:59:53 ◼   ► - One.

00:59:56 ◼   ► - I have four.

00:59:58 ◼   ► I have three usually,

00:59:59 ◼   ► and then one that I enable when I'm traveling,

01:00:02 ◼   ► which is like a whole travel set up home screen.

01:00:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, it's a nice idea.

01:00:06 ◼   ► I like the idea of the travel home screen.

01:00:08 ◼   ► I may set, try to set that up for when I'm traveling.

01:00:12 ◼   ► - It's really nice.

01:00:13 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's a nice idea.

01:00:14 ◼   ► But I, and in fact, Relay FM members, I guess,

01:00:18 ◼   ► well, got an email over the weekend with my home screen.

01:00:21 ◼   ► After doing that, I had a conversation

01:00:26 ◼   ► in a great Slack that we are in.

01:00:29 ◼   ► And I decided to embrace the Siri app widget lifestyle.

01:00:34 ◼   ► 'Cause what I was thinking is I don't actually know what,

01:00:42 ◼   ► my old home screen strategy is invalid now

01:00:45 ◼   ► because of app library and because I use search all the time.

01:00:50 ◼   ► - Yep. - Do I really need anything?

01:00:52 ◼   ► All the home screen serves now is as a quick

01:00:56 ◼   ► access for apps that I don't need to search for

01:01:00 ◼   ► because I use them so often

01:01:01 ◼   ► that they need to be right there on the top.

01:01:02 ◼   ► That's it, right?

01:01:03 ◼   ► 'Cause you can just pull down to search

01:01:06 ◼   ► and find anything and launch it.

01:01:07 ◼   ► So what is that home screen for?

01:01:10 ◼   ► And so for me, it's got some widgets on it.

01:01:13 ◼   ► It's now got the Siri widget on it,

01:01:17 ◼   ► which shows eight apps that the phone thinks I might want.

01:01:21 ◼   ► And then it's got 12 apps that I chose myself.

01:01:26 ◼   ► And so far, that's actually pretty good.

01:01:28 ◼   ► It kind of knows the apps that I use regularly

01:01:30 ◼   ► that aren't visible on the home screen and surfaces them.

01:01:33 ◼   ► And if they're not there, then I just do a quick search.

01:01:35 ◼   ► So that's what I'm trying now.

01:01:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, I use the Siri suggestions a lot from Spotlight.

01:01:41 ◼   ► You know, like when you pull down,

01:01:42 ◼   ► typically the app that I wanna search for

01:01:45 ◼   ► is usually in that.

01:01:46 ◼   ► So I'm not surprised that that widget does well.

01:01:48 ◼   ► And of my three home screens,

01:01:50 ◼   ► I'm gonna ask this number in a minute.

01:01:51 ◼   ► So let me just ask this number.

01:01:52 ◼   ► How many widgets now do you have on your home screen?

01:01:56 ◼   ► - Well, I put down two, but it's actually three

01:01:59 ◼   ► because I've got the widget that is my weather station,

01:02:02 ◼   ► like current temperature and stuff.

01:02:04 ◼   ► I've got the widget that's air quality, which I wrote.

01:02:06 ◼   ► Both of those are ones that I wrote in Scriptable,

01:02:09 ◼   ► the excellent app that lets you write your own widgets

01:02:12 ◼   ► in JavaScript.

01:02:13 ◼   ► And then I have the Siri suggestions app widget

01:02:17 ◼   ► right below it, which is great because it is invisible.

01:02:20 ◼   ► It just looks like there are eight apps there,

01:02:22 ◼   ► but they move when you're not looking.

01:02:24 ◼   ► - So of my three home screens,

01:02:27 ◼   ► two and a half of them are widgets.

01:02:30 ◼   ► I have 10 widgets across the three homes.

01:02:33 ◼   ► I only have app icons on the first one.

01:02:35 ◼   ► I love all of my widgets.

01:02:37 ◼   ► I have great widgets.

01:02:37 ◼   ► I have carrot and fantastic cow in a stack.

01:02:40 ◼   ► I have Timery.

01:02:41 ◼   ► And then I have a bunch of Widgetsmith ones,

01:02:44 ◼   ► which is like a time one, a pollen one,

01:02:46 ◼   ► which is really great.

01:02:47 ◼   ► I love the pollen thing.

01:02:49 ◼   ► I have some photos ones.

01:02:51 ◼   ► I have an app called Train Beacon that tells me

01:02:54 ◼   ► train times for whom are destinations that I need.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I have a fitness one.

01:02:59 ◼   ► I have another time re-widget,

01:03:00 ◼   ► like that's got more statistics

01:03:02 ◼   ► than just telling me what the current running one is.

01:03:04 ◼   ► And then a craft widget as well

01:03:06 ◼   ► for the craft notes that I use, so.

01:03:08 ◼   ► - I do have a couple of widgets that are off,

01:03:11 ◼   ► off on the left to right swipe.

01:03:14 ◼   ► - I do too, I didn't include those in there, but.

01:03:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're not on home screens,

01:03:18 ◼   ► but I do have Fantastic Cal out there

01:03:19 ◼   ► and actually the batteries widget is out there too.

01:03:22 ◼   ► - I have a lot of shortcuts widgets out on that page.

01:03:26 ◼   ► What is your battery health percentage?

01:03:29 ◼   ► - 96%.

01:03:31 ◼   ► - 97.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Good big battery. - Good battery.

01:03:34 ◼   ► - Good big battery.

01:03:35 ◼   ► How many hours have you saved in Overcast?

01:03:40 ◼   ► - 183.

01:03:42 ◼   ► - I'm at 318.

01:03:46 ◼   ► - This is always the one though, like I say that number,

01:03:49 ◼   ► like that's a big number and then I'll listen

01:03:50 ◼   ► and send in there like 200,000 hour ones.

01:03:53 ◼   ► - Well, we don't listen at three X.

01:03:55 ◼   ► - What was your total screen time last week?

01:03:59 ◼   ► - Well, screen time tells me it was nine hours

01:04:03 ◼   ► and 18 minutes, which is just--

01:04:04 ◼   ► - Was that the average or the total?

01:04:06 ◼   ► - I think that was the total.

01:04:08 ◼   ► - No, that can't be right.

01:04:09 ◼   ► - No, it's wrong.

01:04:11 ◼   ► - Screen time does get things wrong.

01:04:13 ◼   ► - Well, and I think I've got it turned off

01:04:14 ◼   ► in a bunch of places.

01:04:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have it on everywhere.

01:04:17 ◼   ► - I decided that screen time,

01:04:18 ◼   ► I decided that screen time was a complete waste of my time

01:04:21 ◼   ► and I turned it off.

01:04:22 ◼   ► - Okay, I have it turned on all my computers,

01:04:25 ◼   ► my iPhone, iPad, Mac, sort of kind of stuff

01:04:27 ◼   ► and I have 54 hours and 48 minutes,

01:04:29 ◼   ► which, you know, looks like a huge difference

01:04:33 ◼   ► between the two of us,

01:04:34 ◼   ► but that's assuming that one is correct.

01:04:37 ◼   ► How many focus modes do you have?

01:04:44 ◼   ► - Hard to, so I have two that I made.

01:04:47 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:04:48 ◼   ► - And then the ones that come with the OS.

01:04:52 ◼   ► - I have three that I made.

01:04:56 ◼   ► There's four total.

01:04:57 ◼   ► One of them is just one of the ones,

01:04:58 ◼   ► like a work one I never adjusted.

01:05:00 ◼   ► I think I deleted some of the ones that were built into,

01:05:03 ◼   ► but I have four focus modes.

01:05:05 ◼   ► How many shortcuts do you have?

01:05:06 ◼   ► - We're not gonna talk about our focus modes?

01:05:10 ◼   ► - Oh, I mean, yeah, we can talk about our focus modes.

01:05:12 ◼   ► - What are your four focus modes?

01:05:13 ◼   ► So my focus modes are, I'm going to the now,

01:05:17 ◼   ► so I get all the names for you.

01:05:18 ◼   ► I have do not disturb, obviously.

01:05:20 ◼   ► I have a fitness focus mode

01:05:22 ◼   ► that turns off notification from absolutely everything.

01:05:26 ◼   ► Recording, which is what is on right now,

01:05:31 ◼   ► which basically puts me in do not disturb

01:05:33 ◼   ► bar a couple of contacts.

01:05:35 ◼   ► And then there is a travel focus mode

01:05:37 ◼   ► that was supposed to be tied into that travel home screen,

01:05:41 ◼   ► but I realized I don't want to be in a focus mode

01:05:43 ◼   ► the entire time I'm traveling because of the way that focus works currently so I ended

01:05:49 ◼   ► up not using that and just manually enabling the home screen. I made change to this so

01:05:55 ◼   ► now that the focus mode options can now be like a opt in opt out rather than just like

01:06:00 ◼   ► all opt in of the apps and people you want to use I will probably change over maybe I'll

01:06:06 ◼   ► you know maybe I've traveled I might like turn off stack notifications or something

01:06:10 ◼   ► Who knows, but I'll play around with that more with iOS 16 for the travel.

01:06:14 ◼   ► I have a personal one that I theoretically could use, but I've never used.

01:06:19 ◼   ► The one that I have used is I have a work one that essentially is my writing focus mode

01:06:23 ◼   ► and it just, it's gently shutting down a whole bunch of notifications while I'm writing so

01:06:28 ◼   ► that I don't get as distracted.

01:06:30 ◼   ► I still let people, there are a bunch of people in apps that can get through, but it's a reduced

01:06:35 ◼   ► set so there's reduced distraction.

01:06:37 ◼   ► But I like the idea of trying to work on like a recording focus mode is a good idea.

01:06:44 ◼   ► Yeah, some of those.

01:06:45 ◼   ► I need to put some time into those.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Yeah, that writing one for you is kind of similar to a recording one for me.

01:06:51 ◼   ► But it's very, very, very pared down, my recording focus mode.

01:06:55 ◼   ► I like it especially on the Mac, right?

01:06:57 ◼   ► So it's very few notifications coming through.

01:07:01 ◼   ► How many shortcuts do you have?

01:07:03 ◼   ► 135.

01:07:04 ◼   ► I'm at 51.

01:07:06 ◼   ► I recently went through and got rid of a lot of stuff.

01:07:08 ◼   ► I was at like 200 and I went through and got rid of tons.

01:07:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I've got some stuff in there

01:07:14 ◼   ► that I need to get out that stuff I added

01:07:15 ◼   ► for the Mac stories contest.

01:07:18 ◼   ► Like I've got the text adventure still in there.

01:07:20 ◼   ► I can probably delete that.

01:07:21 ◼   ► But, and this is not really about our iPhones, right?

01:07:24 ◼   ► It's about what's present in iCloud.

01:07:26 ◼   ► So it's our shortcuts across devices.

01:07:28 ◼   ► So I could delete a bunch of them,

01:07:30 ◼   ► but I actually do use a bunch of them

01:07:32 ◼   ► and more all the time now that they also are on the Mac.

01:07:35 ◼   ► So yeah, so it's a lot.

01:07:38 ◼   ► - How many Apple notes?

01:07:40 ◼   ► - 860.

01:07:42 ◼   ► - Woo, I'm at 688, I thought I had a lot.

01:07:45 ◼   ► I don't delete any, I assume you don't either.

01:07:48 ◼   ► - I don't, well, clearly I don't.

01:07:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I kind of like,

01:07:51 ◼   ► I know people that delete notes, like why?

01:07:53 ◼   ► Just leave them there, it's like nothing, just,

01:07:55 ◼   ► you never know when you might need them.

01:07:56 ◼   ► - And then you can search them and find them later

01:07:58 ◼   ► if there's something in them, you're like, what was that?

01:08:00 ◼   ► And then, so it's funny, I don't use notes for everything,

01:08:04 ◼   ► But I do put some things like when I was testing

01:08:08 ◼   ► the M2 MacBook Pro, I put like the scores in there

01:08:11 ◼   ► cause they sync across devices.

01:08:13 ◼   ► So if I take the scores on a system for a test

01:08:16 ◼   ► that I'm running, I can either use that system

01:08:18 ◼   ► or I can use a different system to note it

01:08:20 ◼   ► while I'm running it.

01:08:21 ◼   ► And they all just sync together in one place.

01:08:22 ◼   ► That's nice.

01:08:23 ◼   ► I will occasionally do a, you know, jot this down

01:08:29 ◼   ► where somebody is like, can I tell you something?

01:08:30 ◼   ► And I'm like, all right, let me just quick open a note

01:08:32 ◼   ► and I'll write it down.

01:08:33 ◼   ► The biggest thing I use notes for is podcast notes,

01:08:38 ◼   ► especially for the incomparable,

01:08:42 ◼   ► if I'm watching a movie or TV show.

01:08:44 ◼   ► And while I'm watching it,

01:08:45 ◼   ► I'm taking notes so that I can know what to talk about.

01:08:48 ◼   ► And so my notes is full of that, just packed full of that.

01:08:53 ◼   ► - How many tab groups do you have in Safari?

01:08:57 ◼   ► - Three.

01:09:00 ◼   ► - What are they?

01:09:02 ◼   ► They are, let's look, I have one called Product,

01:09:07 ◼   ► which I think is, yeah, this is a project I was doing

01:09:13 ◼   ► where I was trying to think about building.

01:09:18 ◼   ► So it's stuff like, can I build a new script for my,

01:09:23 ◼   ► for one writer or a shortcut

01:09:25 ◼   ► that will do faster Amazon affiliate linking?

01:09:30 ◼   ► 'cause there was an app for that,

01:09:32 ◼   ► but that app kind of sunset.

01:09:35 ◼   ► So I've got like little project notes in here

01:09:36 ◼   ► and also a publishing on Apple news

01:09:38 ◼   ► that's sort of like, am I gonna ever convert six colors

01:09:41 ◼   ► to use the Apple news format?

01:09:42 ◼   ► Don't know if I actually am

01:09:44 ◼   ► 'cause there are lots of issues with that,

01:09:46 ◼   ► but that's all like resources for things

01:09:50 ◼   ► that I want to look into building at some point.

01:09:54 ◼   ► I have something called buy stuff,

01:09:56 ◼   ► which is literally products I'm sort of interested in buying

01:09:59 ◼   ► but not right now.

01:10:01 ◼   ► And I have a big,

01:10:02 ◼   ► it's like six or seven things open in there.

01:10:04 ◼   ► Which like, I'm not gonna buy this now.

01:10:06 ◼   ► And it used to be, I just leave that tab open

01:10:07 ◼   ► until I accidentally close it.

01:10:09 ◼   ► And then I would never buy it.

01:10:10 ◼   ► And now I send those tabs to buy stuff.

01:10:13 ◼   ► And then I have a tab called work stuff.

01:10:17 ◼   ► What is in this tab?

01:10:20 ◼   ► I don't even know.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - What's going on with that group?

01:10:23 ◼   ► - That's funny.

01:10:23 ◼   ► - You don't even know do you?

01:10:27 ◼   ► - There's, it's why this isn't always, well, yeah,

01:10:30 ◼   ► there's just banana stuff is in here.

01:10:32 ◼   ► The original iPod press releases in here,

01:10:35 ◼   ► WordPress REST API is in here,

01:10:37 ◼   ► archiving and version control for keyboard maestro.

01:10:40 ◼   ► - This is a mishmash.

01:10:43 ◼   ► - It's yeah, I think it's stuff that I wanted to keep around

01:10:46 ◼   ► but didn't want, right?

01:10:49 ◼   ► I mean, there's stuff like the,

01:10:51 ◼   ► I was thinking about buying a different kind of partition

01:10:53 ◼   ► instead of curtains from my office that's in here.

01:10:55 ◼   ► It's a, it's blog posts.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - It's basically junk.

01:10:58 ◼   ► There's just junk in there.

01:10:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's a junk drawer.

01:11:00 ◼   ► - I don't know why it's there.

01:11:01 ◼   ► - There's a junk drawer.

01:11:02 ◼   ► I have seven.

01:11:03 ◼   ► - Wow, I hope they're better organized than mine.

01:11:06 ◼   ► - Yes, 'cause I use them all.

01:11:09 ◼   ► Like every day I have a Relay FM tab group,

01:11:12 ◼   ► which is just all things.

01:11:14 ◼   ► What I love about tab groups is I have like

01:11:16 ◼   ► this Relay FM tab group, it has like 25 tabs

01:11:20 ◼   ► and it's like anything I could need.

01:11:22 ◼   ► It's all of, it's like all tabs for all of our

01:11:24 ◼   ► publishing tools, our ad tools, the memberful dashboards in there, a bunch of Google sheets

01:11:30 ◼   ► are in there for like keeping up with tracking stuff, Freshbooks, Trello, like anything I

01:11:34 ◼   ► could need. It's all in there and I just leave them all open and then they're always cluttering

01:11:38 ◼   ► up my tab bar. I have one for recording which I'm in right now, which just has show documents

01:11:44 ◼   ► and the CMS in there. I have one for Cortex brand which is similar like all of the various

01:11:50 ◼   ► projects we have there and like I have the various websites I'm working on in there.

01:11:56 ◼   ► I have one for keyboard stuff like products that I'm interested in. I have one for we're

01:12:02 ◼   ► going through the house buying process again so I've got a new home tab group. I have one

01:12:08 ◼   ► for my mentorship that I do for podcast mentorship and I have a tab group which currently has

01:12:14 ◼   ► nothing in it which is vacation and anytime we're planning a vacation all of the tabs

01:12:19 ◼   ► for the vacation go in the vacation tab group.

01:12:22 ◼   ► - That's a good use.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Excellent work.

01:12:24 ◼   ► - I look forward to making that tab group

01:12:26 ◼   ► a shared tab group.

01:12:28 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:12:29 ◼   ► - With iOS and MacOS 16.

01:12:31 ◼   ► - For sure.

01:12:32 ◼   ► - So yeah, that's tab groups.

01:12:34 ◼   ► Oh, I had one last one for you.

01:12:36 ◼   ► How many unread emails do you have?

01:12:38 ◼   ► - Somewhere between none and 2,477.

01:12:48 ◼   ► - I don't understand.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Can be the answer to this question.

01:12:53 ◼   ► - So I use SaneBox and my inbox is completely read,

01:12:58 ◼   ► although there's lots of messages in it,

01:12:59 ◼   ► but I've read them all.

01:13:00 ◼   ► I also have SaneLater and SaneNews, they're unread.

01:13:06 ◼   ► There are lots of them in there, but I don't care.

01:13:10 ◼   ► But my inbox itself, although not at zero,

01:13:13 ◼   ► there's lots of things in the inbox,

01:13:15 ◼   ► but it's not, there's nothing unread in there,

01:13:18 ◼   ► just in the other priority mailboxes.

01:13:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:13:23 ◼   ► - I have eight unread emails in my emailing box right now.

01:13:27 ◼   ► - Get to that.

01:13:28 ◼   ► - I'll try.

01:13:29 ◼   ► - Okay.

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01:15:21 ◼   ► Let's do some #AskUpgradeQuestions to finish today's episode.

01:15:26 ◼   ► First comes from John.

01:15:27 ◼   ► Jason, what is the right pronunciation of the new version of macOS?

01:15:32 ◼   ► I have been hearing various levels throughout various podcasts and would like the definitive

01:15:37 ◼   ► Californian take.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Is it "ven-tura", "ven-tura", "ven-tura", or "ven-tura"?

01:15:47 ◼   ► Well first off I want to say there's no such thing as definitive pronunciations.

01:15:50 ◼   ► But you did this before with one of the Californian names.

01:15:54 ◼   ► You were saying as a Californian, it's this.

01:15:58 ◼   ► I don't remember which one it was.

01:15:59 ◼   ► Maybe it was Monterey or something?

01:16:01 ◼   ► - Maybe it was Monterey.

01:16:02 ◼   ► So I would say that although I've been referring

01:16:06 ◼   ► to Ventura a lot, if you asked me about,

01:16:11 ◼   ► that we're gonna drive through Ventura on the way

01:16:16 ◼   ► to wherever, I would do the ch sound.

01:16:20 ◼   ► I would do Ventura, almost like it's V-E-N-C-H-U-R-A,

01:16:24 ◼   ► Ventura, a little bit, instead of Ventura.

01:16:26 ◼   ► I think that's mostly laziness,

01:16:28 ◼   ► and that's a lot of accents come from laziness

01:16:31 ◼   ► where it's like, eh, do I need to be that precise?

01:16:33 ◼   ► Do I need to pop that T, Ventura?

01:16:35 ◼   ► Ventura is a very, that's my radio voice of saying Ventura,

01:16:40 ◼   ► when in fact, in real life, I would just say Ventura.

01:16:43 ◼   ► Ventura. Like a churro.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

01:16:46 ◼   ► But you can do whatever.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Ventura and Ventura.

01:16:48 ◼   ► I mean, I've already said, I like to say Ventura.

01:16:49 ◼   ► I like to say ventura, 'cause it just sounds more fun,

01:16:51 ◼   ► like to just put a bit of like zorro on it or something.

01:16:54 ◼   ► Ventura.

01:16:55 ◼   ► That's how I'm going.

01:16:57 ◼   ► Ventura, ventura, ventura is not, no, ventura,

01:17:01 ◼   ► like vench, ventura.

01:17:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:04 ◼   ► Ventura is probably what I would say,

01:17:06 ◼   ► and in radio voice it's been ventura.

01:17:08 ◼   ► Ventura, ventura.

01:17:10 ◼   ► The Cadillac ventura.

01:17:11 ◼   ► What about ventura?

01:17:13 ◼   ► No. Is that good?

01:17:15 ◼   ► No.

01:17:16 ◼   ► Ventura.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Ventura.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Ventura.

01:17:18 ◼   ► - Vento-ray. - It's like a cross

01:17:19 ◼   ► between Monterey and Ventura.

01:17:20 ◼   ► - Ventolina, that's the new version of Mac.

01:17:22 ◼   ► - You know what's between Ventura and Monterey?

01:17:24 ◼   ► Confusingly big sir.

01:17:25 ◼   ► - Huh, okay.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Johan asks, "When do you think Apple

01:17:31 ◼   ► "will stop supporting Intel Macs?"

01:17:33 ◼   ► - Oh, you know, I mean, where's the line right now?

01:17:40 ◼   ► I would say stop supporting, it'll be a few years,

01:17:43 ◼   ► you know, two or three years.

01:17:47 ◼   ► getting fewer features every time,

01:17:49 ◼   ► having banner features not be there,

01:17:51 ◼   ► that'll start happening.

01:17:54 ◼   ► But stop supporting them altogether.

01:17:57 ◼   ► It'll be a while, right?

01:17:58 ◼   ► I think Apple's generally pretty good at that.

01:17:59 ◼   ► People are angry about Stage Manager,

01:18:00 ◼   ► but I think in general,

01:18:02 ◼   ► Apple's pretty good at keeping older hardware around

01:18:05 ◼   ► and not completely dropping them out.

01:18:08 ◼   ► There's also some good security reasons for that, right?

01:18:11 ◼   ► So I would say bet on the longer side,

01:18:13 ◼   ► but expect that they're gonna start omitting features

01:18:16 ◼   ► and it'll be more like, yeah, you get the new update,

01:18:18 ◼   ► but you don't really get the new features.

01:18:20 ◼   ► You just sort of are on the base and have the security updates,

01:18:23 ◼   ► and then at some point that'll go away.

01:18:25 ◼   ► So they could change. I mean, they're very changeable,

01:18:28 ◼   ► and this is a new thing, but I have to feel like

01:18:31 ◼   ► there's two or three years left for sure.

01:18:33 ◼   ► -Ventura is on 2017.

01:18:36 ◼   ► It's as far back as it goes on some Macs, so...

01:18:40 ◼   ► -So I would say that would suggest

01:18:42 ◼   ► that it might be four years before they drop it completely,

01:18:46 ◼   ► which is, I think that that would not,

01:18:48 ◼   ► that might be my guess, if I had to bet, it would be 25.

01:18:52 ◼   ► - 2025. - That the 25, WWDC 25,

01:18:56 ◼   ► they would say no more Intel.

01:18:58 ◼   ► - But understand that by that point,

01:19:00 ◼   ► you will be able to upgrade,

01:19:02 ◼   ► but you probably won't get many of the new features

01:19:04 ◼   ► they're adding every year. - Right.

01:19:05 ◼   ► And you may not be happy with, I mean,

01:19:07 ◼   ► are they gonna optimize for performance on Intel systems?

01:19:10 ◼   ► No. Are they gonna optimize for the machine learning,

01:19:15 ◼   ► like all the things that they can get

01:19:18 ◼   ► on the Apple Silicon chips?

01:19:20 ◼   ► Yes. And so, yeah, it's gonna be,

01:19:22 ◼   ► using an Intel Mac will become a less pleasant experience

01:19:26 ◼   ► if you're trying to stay up to date

01:19:28 ◼   ► with the latest and greatest

01:19:29 ◼   ► over the course of the next few years.

01:19:31 ◼   ► But I think 25, you know, that might be the final,

01:19:36 ◼   ► like, no, this new macOS Death Valley

01:19:40 ◼   ► and 25, the Intel Macs are the ones that are in Death Valley at that point, something like

01:19:45 ◼   ► that.

01:19:46 ◼   ► - Eric writes, "I'm seeing calls for people who menstruate to delete their cycle tracking

01:19:51 ◼   ► apps in light of the overturning of Roe, as people fear that states may seek that data

01:19:56 ◼   ► to prosecute those who've had abortions.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Isn't the Apple cycle tracker safe?

01:20:02 ◼   ► What about other apps?"

01:20:04 ◼   ► So I have also been seeing a lot of this, and it's quite complicated.

01:20:08 ◼   ► I'm going to put a link in the show notes to an article that EFF wrote.

01:20:14 ◼   ► It seems to be like this is one of those things where there is a lot of fear and also scaremongering.

01:20:23 ◼   ► Unfortunately I see a lot of these tweets and I wonder are people just trying to go

01:20:26 ◼   ► viral on Twitter?

01:20:29 ◼   ► You can never really tell and that kind of stuff can be a bit tricky.

01:20:33 ◼   ► So the EFF kind of says, like, check the privacy policy of the apps that you're using. They

01:20:40 ◼   ► recommend one. I've seen a lot of people recommend an app called Clue as well. Apparently they

01:20:44 ◼   ► have a pretty good privacy policy about data and stuff. You've put a link in the show notes.

01:20:51 ◼   ► Yeah, John Gruber did a Daring Fireball post today about this, and he mentions what the

01:20:58 ◼   ► Apple Health policy is. Basically, if you're using iOS 12 or later and have two-factor

01:21:03 ◼   ► your health records are end-to-end encrypted.

01:21:07 ◼   ► So they don't show up anywhere and Apple can't get to them.

01:21:11 ◼   ► And then in addition, by default,

01:21:13 ◼   ► you can turn off the iCloud syncing entirely

01:21:16 ◼   ► at which point it's just on device.

01:21:18 ◼   ► And so that I think the Apple,

01:21:21 ◼   ► this is one of those cases where Apple's privacy policies

01:21:23 ◼   ► are probably really beneficial because you,

01:21:25 ◼   ► even if there's a good app out there,

01:21:27 ◼   ► you have to feel personally comfortable

01:21:29 ◼   ► that the developer of that app has secure and-

01:21:32 ◼   ► remains good.

01:21:34 ◼   ► - Like privacy and storage and how everything is working.

01:21:37 ◼   ► And I think that with Apple, you have a better idea

01:21:39 ◼   ► that if they don't have it unencrypted in some form

01:21:43 ◼   ► and they don't have the key,

01:21:45 ◼   ► then it really is unreachable by Apple.

01:21:46 ◼   ► And we've seen some cases of that

01:21:48 ◼   ► in like the San Bernardino case

01:21:52 ◼   ► where Apple refused to decrypt.

01:21:55 ◼   ► Like there's different acts depending on where

01:21:58 ◼   ► like messages can be, messages are in to unencrypted

01:22:01 ◼   ► but the iMessage backup is not, right?

01:22:03 ◼   ► Like there are places where this varies, but--

01:22:06 ◼   ► - If you use messages in the cloud,

01:22:08 ◼   ► you give up the end-to-end encryption

01:22:11 ◼   ► because the key also-- - It's still there,

01:22:13 ◼   ► but the archive is not because they've got the key.

01:22:18 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, with the backup of the messages

01:22:21 ◼   ► is also the key.

01:22:22 ◼   ► So if, what Apple do,

01:22:25 ◼   ► 'cause I did some research on this too today,

01:22:27 ◼   ► what Apple do give up to law enforcement

01:22:30 ◼   ► is iCloud backup information.

01:22:34 ◼   ► And that includes some stuff.

01:22:36 ◼   ► Like you can go and look on Apple's website

01:22:37 ◼   ► and you can see the things that's included.

01:22:39 ◼   ► Health data is not included in that

01:22:42 ◼   ► because it is fully end-to-end encrypted.

01:22:44 ◼   ► It's one of the things that's fully end-to-end encrypted.

01:22:46 ◼   ► So the only way that law enforcement

01:22:49 ◼   ► could get this information

01:22:50 ◼   ► is if they had actual physical access to a device of yours.

01:22:54 ◼   ► So as long as your device is properly secured,

01:22:58 ◼   ► that data can't be accessed.

01:22:59 ◼   ► Now, of course, you then get into all of those situations

01:23:02 ◼   ► of, like, physical device security, right?

01:23:05 ◼   ► And at that point, if you are that concerned

01:23:07 ◼   ► about your physical device security,

01:23:09 ◼   ► there is no app that you can be --

01:23:12 ◼   ► -Yeah, you'd be better off not using electronic devices

01:23:16 ◼   ► because -- -Yep.

01:23:18 ◼   ► -Or doing it in a code or something because, yeah,

01:23:22 ◼   ► if the police demand you to unlock your device

01:23:25 ◼   ► and if they force it open,

01:23:28 ◼   ► It doesn't matter that you've got it only on your device.

01:23:31 ◼   ► 'Cause your device is now open.

01:23:33 ◼   ► - So this is a very murky water situation.

01:23:39 ◼   ► Yes, there are options, but it all depends on what you are.

01:23:44 ◼   ► But the other part is it also depends

01:23:46 ◼   ► on what your comfort level is.

01:23:48 ◼   ► But if what you are, the answer of this question of like,

01:23:53 ◼   ► is there a quote unquote safe option?

01:23:55 ◼   ► Yes, it's Apple's Health app.

01:23:57 ◼   ► that's the one that you can feel confident about,

01:23:59 ◼   ► that they're not going to,

01:24:01 ◼   ► as confident as you can in a technology company,

01:24:03 ◼   ► that they're not gonna do something like this, right?

01:24:07 ◼   ► I still want Apple to do full end-to-end encryption

01:24:11 ◼   ► of everything, including messages, right?

01:24:15 ◼   ► Like I want full end-to-end encryption of iCloud backups.

01:24:18 ◼   ► I know why they don't do it,

01:24:20 ◼   ► but I think I should be able to check 100 boxes and get it.

01:24:25 ◼   ► Because the reason they don't do it

01:24:27 ◼   ► is because if I lost all my devices or whatever,

01:24:30 ◼   ► then I've lost all of the data, it's gone.

01:24:34 ◼   ► I still want to take that into my own hands, right?

01:24:38 ◼   ► But, 'cause the idea is like,

01:24:40 ◼   ► if you've lost all your devices and all your passwords,

01:24:43 ◼   ► you just so many things have to get lost

01:24:45 ◼   ► where I'm confident I would never get myself

01:24:47 ◼   ► into that situation, but I know why they do it

01:24:49 ◼   ► because Apple have so many millions and millions

01:24:51 ◼   ► and millions of users, there will be a non-sizable portion

01:24:55 ◼   ► of those people that will lose that password and then they've lost their photos. I'm

01:25:00 ◼   ► confident that's not going to happen to me. So I wish that they would let people do

01:25:05 ◼   ► it with a hundred keys you have to turn or whatever, right? But they don't offer it.

01:25:09 ◼   ► So some stuff is in that backup. Health data is not one of those things, thankfully.

01:25:16 ◼   ► Brando asks, "I was wondering if all apps work in stage manager on iPad or if apps have

01:25:22 ◼   ► to be compiled to work with it like was the case with split screen.

01:25:26 ◼   ► One of the great things about stage manager as compared to split screen is because it

01:25:30 ◼   ► wasn't like, you had to do a lot of work to get split screen to work.

01:25:34 ◼   ► But with stage manager, every iPad app works, some better than others.

01:25:38 ◼   ► But basically if an app was already supporting split screen, it's going to work.

01:25:45 ◼   ► It works even better if there's an app that supports multiple windows.

01:25:49 ◼   ► But yeah, every app can work.

01:25:50 ◼   ► of them will just be full screen and you can't do anything with it, including some of the

01:25:54 ◼   ► stuff that Apple makes, including settings.

01:25:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:57 ◼   ► You know.

01:25:58 ◼   ► I, there have been a lot of conversation about settings, especially on the Mac with the new

01:26:02 ◼   ► settings app.

01:26:04 ◼   ► Um, my, the settings app is, is yeah, full screen, uh, tall on iPad and not resizable

01:26:12 ◼   ► on the Mac.

01:26:13 ◼   ► And I don't understand, I just don't understand why this is on both fronts.

01:26:17 ◼   ► It's like it doesn't, it's just a window.

01:26:19 ◼   ► Let me move the window.

01:26:21 ◼   ► - I had a thing today, which was funny,

01:26:22 ◼   ► where I had the settings app open

01:26:25 ◼   ► and I wanted to open one password

01:26:27 ◼   ► 'cause I was adding a card to Apple Pay.

01:26:31 ◼   ► So I needed the verification code of the card

01:26:33 ◼   ► like this on the back.

01:26:34 ◼   ► I didn't remember it, so I wanted to bring out one password.

01:26:37 ◼   ► In Stage Manager, there's no slide over anymore, right?

01:26:41 ◼   ► So it wouldn't let me bring in a second window

01:26:43 ◼   ► because settings is full screen.

01:26:45 ◼   ► - It's full screen.

01:26:46 ◼   ► - Wow, yeah, it is, that's probably gonna get fixed

01:26:50 ◼   ► during the beta cycle, but most apps,

01:26:52 ◼   ► to answer Brando's point here, most apps work fine.

01:26:56 ◼   ► I would say the bigger issue is they're using

01:26:59 ◼   ► the apps' resizability based on not just multitasking,

01:27:04 ◼   ► but all the different screens, right?

01:27:06 ◼   ► So they're able to, apps are able to provide

01:27:11 ◼   ► different behaviors and present different interfaces

01:27:13 ◼   ► based on whether they're on an iPhone or an iPad,

01:27:16 ◼   ► or whether they're on a big iPad or a small iPad,

01:27:19 ◼   ► or they're in split view, right?

01:27:21 ◼   ► They have different appearances.

01:27:22 ◼   ► And what Stage Manager is doing is taking advantage

01:27:24 ◼   ► of all of those different appearances

01:27:27 ◼   ► to let you resize the window.

01:27:29 ◼   ► And basically what you're doing is you're telling that app,

01:27:31 ◼   ► "My device is this size now, my device is this size now,"

01:27:34 ◼   ► and the app relays out.

01:27:37 ◼   ► What I would say app developers are going to need to do

01:27:39 ◼   ► this summer is look at their apps

01:27:43 ◼   ► in the context of Stage Manager

01:27:44 ◼   ► and realize when the behaviors that they assumed

01:27:48 ◼   ► based on you being on a device

01:27:50 ◼   ► are not the same based on being in Stage Manager.

01:27:55 ◼   ► And I'll give you an example, which is Slack.

01:27:58 ◼   ► On the Mac, you can have an app window

01:28:02 ◼   ► that has the channels on the left

01:28:05 ◼   ► and the content on the right.

01:28:07 ◼   ► In Stage Manager, if you are in anything but full screen,

01:28:12 ◼   ► Slack is basically saying, oh, you're in a compact view,

01:28:15 ◼   ► I'm not gonna show you that thing on the left,

01:28:18 ◼   ► and it's infuriating.

01:28:20 ◼   ► It's not their fault.

01:28:21 ◼   ► They didn't know that this beta was happening,

01:28:22 ◼   ► but it's an example where they're making an assumption

01:28:26 ◼   ► that this is a fairly compact view,

01:28:27 ◼   ► I'm gonna hide that sidebar on the left side,

01:28:30 ◼   ► give the content as much room.

01:28:31 ◼   ► It's like, I don't want that sidebar hidden,

01:28:33 ◼   ► I want it to stay open all the time.

01:28:34 ◼   ► And because when you slide it over,

01:28:36 ◼   ► that goes over the content, you can't leave it open.

01:28:39 ◼   ► You can't choose.

01:28:40 ◼   ► And that's gonna be one of those things

01:28:41 ◼   ► that all app developers are gonna have to think is like,

01:28:43 ◼   ► oh, I should make it so that people can choose

01:28:45 ◼   ► to show or hide this, because in some contexts,

01:28:48 ◼   ► you might wanna do that.

01:28:49 ◼   ► - This is again, like why developers

01:28:52 ◼   ► should have adopted Apple's sidebar for iPad stuff

01:28:56 ◼   ► for these reasons.

01:28:57 ◼   ► I will say, if you, like, I'm not saying you should do this,

01:29:01 ◼   ► or people should do this, but I did do it.

01:29:03 ◼   ► If you do the display zooming, like the more space on iPad,

01:29:07 ◼   ► that doesn't happen with Slack.

01:29:09 ◼   ► - Interesting.

01:29:11 ◼   ► Well, I've been using Slack on an external display

01:29:13 ◼   ► and it still happens.

01:29:14 ◼   ► - Oh, that's funny. - Even if I make it

01:29:15 ◼   ► really large. - That's funny.

01:29:16 ◼   ► - So it is not great.

01:29:19 ◼   ► But again, it's beta for everything.

01:29:21 ◼   ► And the developers who didn't even know this feature existed

01:29:23 ◼   ► are not to blame for it.

01:29:25 ◼   ► But it is, since Brando's question is,

01:29:26 ◼   ► are you gonna have to do things,

01:29:28 ◼   ► like recompiling, no,

01:29:29 ◼   ► because they're using standard features of the OS,

01:29:31 ◼   ► It should be usable, but I think there's gonna be a lot

01:29:34 ◼   ► of fine tuning this summer when these developers

01:29:39 ◼   ► are gonna get their apps in Stage Manager and go,

01:29:41 ◼   ► oh no, right?

01:29:43 ◼   ► And like, this needs to be better.

01:29:44 ◼   ► - Come release time, it's Slack's fault.

01:29:46 ◼   ► - Well, if you think about, yeah, I agree.

01:29:48 ◼   ► And if you think about like desktop class apps as a concept

01:29:51 ◼   ► on the iPad, which Apple wants us to think about,

01:29:54 ◼   ► think about something like a Mac app

01:29:57 ◼   ► that wouldn't let you turn a sidebar on and off

01:30:00 ◼   ► or a toolbar on and off or something like that.

01:30:03 ◼   ► There are some apps that do that,

01:30:05 ◼   ► like Slack is actually like that,

01:30:06 ◼   ► but in general, on the Mac,

01:30:09 ◼   ► there's an expectation that the user

01:30:11 ◼   ► has some level of control over the interface,

01:30:13 ◼   ► and that's less true on an iPad.

01:30:16 ◼   ► It's still true, but I think that

01:30:18 ◼   ► because the size classes thing was such a big deal

01:30:21 ◼   ► in the early days of the iPhone,

01:30:22 ◼   ► with like, there are gonna be bigger iPhones,

01:30:23 ◼   ► and there's the iPad,

01:30:25 ◼   ► and we gotta get away from pixel perfect designs

01:30:28 ◼   ► and do these different size classes

01:30:29 ◼   ► and everything is responsive to different sizes.

01:30:33 ◼   ► I think what got lost in that is the idea

01:30:34 ◼   ► that the size of the window isn't the only way

01:30:38 ◼   ► that your user experience should be defined.

01:30:40 ◼   ► It should also be defined by user intent.

01:30:42 ◼   ► And that's a thing that developers,

01:30:45 ◼   ► especially of iPad apps need to get over.

01:30:47 ◼   ► They need to get over the idea that the size is all

01:30:50 ◼   ► that matters in terms of the user experience.

01:30:52 ◼   ► 'Cause let me tell you, using Stage Manager,

01:30:54 ◼   ► it really sucks if you're working on a window

01:30:57 ◼   ► and you wanna make it a little smaller

01:30:59 ◼   ► and the entire experience of what's on screen changes

01:31:03 ◼   ► because they think you're on a different device

01:31:06 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:31:06 ◼   ► And it's like, I'm not,

01:31:07 ◼   ► I just made it a little bit smaller.

01:31:09 ◼   ► So you need to, they're gonna need to put,

01:31:11 ◼   ► at least in some circumstances,

01:31:12 ◼   ► more control in the user's hands for that.

01:31:14 ◼   ► But that's what the summer is for.

01:31:16 ◼   ► - It's also for fun.

01:31:17 ◼   ► - It is also for fun.

01:31:21 ◼   ► - If you would like to send in a question

01:31:22 ◼   ► for us to answer on the show,

01:31:24 ◼   ► just send out a tweet with the #AskUpgrade

01:31:26 ◼   ► or use question mark ask upgrade

01:31:27 ◼   ► in the relay FM members discord. Don't forget to go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com if you want

01:31:32 ◼   ► to pick up an upgrade t-shirt. Just got a couple of weeks left on that. If you want

01:31:37 ◼   ► to find Jason online you can go to sixcolors.com. You can find him he's @jasonow, J S N E double

01:31:42 ◼   ► L on twitter. I am @imike, I M Y K E. Thank you so much to Zocdoc, Fitbod, TextExpander

01:31:49 ◼   ► and our Upgrade Plus members who help us support the show. We'll be back next time. Until then,

01:31:57 ◼   ► Say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:31:58 ◼   ► Feel better, Myke Hurley.

01:31:59 ◼   ► Thank you.