420: I Don't Want Your Jolly Ranchers
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From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 420.
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Today's show is brought to you by TextExpander, Squarespace, Sourcegraph, and Member4.
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My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow.
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Hi, Myke Hurley. It's great to be here on episode 420, which is 10 times the ultimate answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.
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Shout out, James Thompson.
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And that is indeed the only reference to that number.
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That's the canonical reference.
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Mm-hmm. It's 42 times 10.
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I have a #snowtalk question. Comes from Brance. Brance wants to know, "What's your favorite candy?"
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Myke will add, "In case you're hungry, you know, you got the munchies, what candy do you want?"
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I gotta be nice to Brance, 'cause I was kinda mean to Brance last week.
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- In Jason's defense, he apologized in disco
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before the episode went out.
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- It's true.
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And Brant saw that first and then was worried
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that I'd said something terrible about him,
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which I actually didn't do.
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I asked if he was Johnny Ive in disguise.
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So what's my favorite candy?
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Boring answer is dark chocolate.
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Does that count as candy?
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- I don't even know if it does.
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- If it's like mass produced candy, I don't know,
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like Butterfinger maybe?
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'cause I love peanut butter in all its forms.
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Yeah, sure, let's say that.
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- Do you have a favorite Halloween candy?
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Does that change or is it just a mini butter finger?
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- Well, if you can get a mini butter finger,
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then that is absolutely number one on the list.
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And then there's probably a ranking list
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that goes down from there, like an Almond Joy or a Mounds,
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and then you go down to like a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
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You know, I like Sweet Tarts.
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Sweet Tarts are pretty good.
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Yeah, it goes down from there, but basically what I'm saying is, if you're bringing me
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your Jolly Ranchers, get out. I don't want your Jolly Ranchers. Jolly Ranchers are at
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the bottom, the hard candy, they're at the bottom of the bowl at Halloween, and back
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when I worked in an office, they were at the bottom of the office candy bowl. You could
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tell they'd fill the bowl, and then two days later the bowl was empty except for the Jolly
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Ranchers at the bottom, because nobody likes them and who cares.
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- I don't mind them.
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I know this is a big thing on Rocket,
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but do you have a stance on candy corn
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when we're talking about Halloween candy?
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- Candy corn.
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It's neither candy nor corn, discuss.
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No, it's, I think candy corns are fine.
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And yes, I mean, you undercut me there
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by saying that you actually like Jolly Ranchers.
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They're fine, I'm just saying
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that I have no enthusiasm for them at all.
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But yeah, I think candy corns are okay.
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They're waxy and a little bit weird,
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but you know, it's the spirit of the season.
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- Yep, it's its own thing.
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If you would like to send in a question for us to answer
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in a future episode of Upgrade,
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just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnowTalk
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or use question mark SnowTalk
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in the relay FM members discord.
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As always, if you love Upgrade and want more of it,
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you should subscribe to Upgrade Plus.
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You'll get no ads and bonus content every single week.
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Go to getupgradeplus.com,
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just $5 a month or $50 a year.
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Thank you to your support, for your support
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and to your support if you do it.
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Thanks to your support specifically.
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And if you're somehow involved in the support,
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we appreciate it.
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We just did merch recently.
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We did Summer of Fun tea.
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I actually got mine. - I got mine.
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- I got mine like two days ago
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and I'm wearing the blue one today.
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- I went to the University of Oregon a few days ago
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for the new student orientation
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'cause my son is going there.
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And yes, my daughter goes there too.
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They're both ducks now.
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And their colors are green and yellow.
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And that Summer of Fun with the yellow on the green,
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- It's perfect. - It's good.
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I wore it on campus, it was great.
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I felt spirited and also upgrade related
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and that was a perfect feeling.
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- You have a paddling of ducks.
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- I do have ducks, there's a flock.
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It's a flock of ducks now that I have.
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So, you know, attack the quack, the, I don't know.
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There's, it's all duck puns by the way,
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at the University of Oregon.
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They really lean into it. - Oh, I have no doubt.
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the orientation is called intro-duck-tion.
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- Oh, that's a bad one.
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Is that, that's not a good one.
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- And you know, a few years ago, we were talking about it
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and I had forgotten what they called it.
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And I was like, what was the bad pun?
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What was the bad pun?
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And I came up with inductra-nation,
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which I think is a way better name for it,
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but that's not what it is, it's introduction.
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- To be fair though, I say that's bad.
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That's 100% the pun I would come up with, right?
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I know that.
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- Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, anyway, when they move in, there's a "unpack the quack" is what they call it.
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I'm serious. You cannot escape the duck puns in Oregon.
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Well, I guess, you know what you're getting yourself into before you really settle in, right?
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Yeah, oh yeah.
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Before you make a nest.
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That's right. And they have a mascot who's a duck and he was at the thing.
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He appeared at the thing to get them all hyped up.
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Uh, yeah, it's a thing. You just gotta embrace it when you go there.
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So anyway, the Summer of Fun t-shirt was really nice
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and I'm very happy to have gotten them.
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So yeah, awesome.
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But they're gone.
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- But they're gone. - You can't get them.
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- Can't get them.
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- So there's no upgrade merch anymore.
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- Incorrect.
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There is now, we are introducing
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the permanent upgrade merch store.
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- There's a reason for this.
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So we've been at Relay FM,
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we spoke about it a couple of weeks ago,
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we've been experimenting with some of Cotton Bureau's
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on-demand printing.
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So the Summer of Fun shirts, they're campaign printing.
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The printing process is slightly different.
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It's like a thicker screen print,
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which for some designs can be better.
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Like for the Summer of Fun,
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you really want the yellow to be very strong
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in the design, right?
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So we do them for a couple of weeks and let them go.
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And plus some stuff is like limited.
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I have wanted to do a draft shirt for ages
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because I love the draft logo that Simon made for us
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and we still use it.
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we just adapt it with what the draft is each time.
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And I love it.
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I've wanted it for a long time.
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But the problem with the draft is,
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you never really,
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one does not know when the draft is coming
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until it's too late.
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And so if we knew the draft,
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we know the draft's here,
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we can't then put up the store
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because then by the time the campaign has ended
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and then you was mailed the draft t-shirt,
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I mean, you'd be in draft desert again, right?
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Like waiting for the next one.
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And honestly, sometimes if you did it in September,
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we could end up like getting to the next draft again
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before this draft's even shipped.
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So we're now gonna be doing a few designs
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on the print on demand that the content bureau does.
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So whenever you want to, upgrade listener,
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you can just go and buy an upgrade draft T-shirt
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or the two versions of an upgrade logo shirt,
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upgrade max and upgrade mini.
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Do you like the naming Jason?
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- I do, and the upgrade mini gives everybody out there
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who likes shirt pocket logo designs
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instead of centered big logo designs
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an upgrade option for the very first time,
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'cause I don't love the shirt pocket logo design.
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- The Max is the Jason shirt, the mini is the Myke shirt.
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That's what happened here.
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I wanted this 'cause I like the small designs
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as well as the big, I like the big designs too,
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but I like to diversity my designs.
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So they're in a bunch of colors, both of them,
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so you can get some cool colors.
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These will always be here.
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There's no reason why they can't be.
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And the way that this works, you order it
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and then a couple of days later it gets shipped out.
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And also there's hoodies and all kinds of stuff.
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What I will say about the upgrade mini shirt
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is that they do something that you don't see very often
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with Cotton Bureau, is a zip up hoodie on demand.
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Because the artwork's not in the middle,
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you can do a zip up hoodie.
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So you can get that.
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So this is a cheaper version of an upgrade hoodie
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and the big embroidered upgrade hoodie that we do.
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- Oh yeah, you can go up, you can under type,
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you can choose sweatshirt.
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- Uh-huh, but all of these.
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So you could get sweatshirts instead of t-shirts.
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- And it's not gonna be the embroidered hoodie
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that we offer normally.
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- But it's more affordable
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and you can get it whenever you like.
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- Yeah, I bought the t-shirt.
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At some point, I'm gonna definitely get a sweatshirt
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of the upgrade draft logo,
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'cause I think that will look really good.
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- And it's still,
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you feeling like the summer of fun, you can get a tank top.
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- Yeah, but not with the summer of fun on it.
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- No, but the tank top implies summer and fun.
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- It most definitely does.
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- Yeah, you can get an upgrade draft tank top
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in Royal Blue Tri-Blend and just go to town.
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- I really appreciate the people
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that buy summer of fun tank tops.
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Like we've had a couple of upgradey
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and send us pictures of them in their tank tops and like.
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- It's amazing.
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There's even a onesie for a baby.
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You can get your baby into the upgrade draft immediately.
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Although I think more fitting would be a onesie
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with the upgrade max logo,
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because what is a baby but an upgrade?
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- Very true.
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When me and Steven,
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we do the backstage membership show, right?
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We offered a membership bounty for the first member
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to send us a photo of their baby and a Relay FM onesie.
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And we got it within like a week or two
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and we gave that person a free membership
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to show their choice.
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'cause we just thought it was really cool.
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So you can go get onesies.
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Awesome. Okay.
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So this is all available, upgradeyourwardrobe.com
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whenever you want it.
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All right, Jason, this is awards season.
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I mean, it's all,
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I mean, the Oscars are in March
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and the Emmys are in September.
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So that's coming, I guess.
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It's like, there's some, it's always awards season, Myke.
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But the Hollywood Critics Association TV Awards
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were last night.
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Right, right.
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So this is the TV critics basically vote on their favorites.
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So in some ways, if you're like,
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oh, it's all just a popularity contest.
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It's like, well, here is the critical acclaim award,
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essentially where the TV critics all get together
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and hand out awards.
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- Severance won five awards, the most of any show,
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'cause they split these into broadcast cable and streaming.
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There's like three sets of awards, which I didn't know
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until I was looking into this today.
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but Severance won the most of any of these.
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- Oh, I need to,
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this is the Hollywood Critics Association,
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which is different from the TV Critics Association,
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which is yet another Critics Association award.
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What we're saying is Hollywood is really good
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at giving itself awards.
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That's what I'm saying.
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- Well, of course.
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I mean, why wouldn't you, you know?
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- These are the Hollywood, are they critics of Hollywood?
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Probably not.
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Let's be honest.
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They're probably not critics of Hollywood,
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but they love Apple.
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- When I was in LA last time,
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I walked past the building,
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the Hollywood Critics Association buildings,
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like just a little house somewhere.
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Yeah, and I was like, "Oh, I know them.
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"We talk about them.
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"They give out the awards to Apple."
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Anyway, Severance won five.
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- Give them a rainbow Apple decal or something
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for them to put on the front door.
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- I'll mock on the rule next time.
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Ted Lasso won two.
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- So still picking up the awards,
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but I think this is an interesting indication.
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Severance might do really well this year.
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- Yeah, well, and this,
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they won best comedy and drama for streaming series.
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So they got the big awards, which is quite a thing.
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So yeah, yeah, Tim Cook loved it.
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Tim Cook tweeted about it.
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- Of course he did.
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- I thought that was interesting
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where they have the Tim Cook tweet
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where he has to figure out how to refer to severance, right?
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So it's like, I'm proud of the Richmond footballers
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and Lumen's macro data refiners and their outies.
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Don't look too close.
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It's kind of dark.
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- We're proud of it though.
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- We're proud of them.
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It's definitely not like our office in any way, alright?
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Leave us a line.
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at TextExpander.
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When you work in a small team, every moment counts.
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You don't want to be wasting time finding the video conferencing details for the next
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Our thanks to TextExpander for their support of this show and RealAFM.
00:13:43
◼
►
- It's time for a rumor roundup, Jason Snow.
00:13:48
◼
►
- So Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting that the iPhone 14 Pro
00:13:52
◼
►
and Pro Max are likely to be more expensive this year.
00:13:57
◼
►
So the, I was gonna say the Kuo.
00:14:01
◼
►
Kuo did not state what he believes the new prices will be,
00:14:06
◼
►
but did say that he estimates the average selling price
00:14:09
◼
►
for the iPhone 14 lineup as a whole
00:14:12
◼
►
to be around 15% higher than the iPhone 13.
00:14:15
◼
►
Now what this does not mean
00:14:17
◼
►
is that there will be a 15% increase necessarily
00:14:21
◼
►
to the iPhone 14 lineup.
00:14:23
◼
►
It could be, it could be 10%, it could be 20%.
00:14:27
◼
►
But what Kuo is saying is that the mixture
00:14:29
◼
►
of all of the phones sold when put together
00:14:32
◼
►
will be higher than the iPhone 13 line, right?
00:14:36
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
00:14:38
◼
►
- Now what that could mean
00:14:40
◼
►
is that Ming-Chi Kuo is expecting
00:14:43
◼
►
that there will be more of the more expensive
00:14:47
◼
►
iPhone 14 phones sold than the iPhone.
00:14:51
◼
►
- They call favorable mix, I think is how they refer
00:14:54
◼
►
to that on the analyst call.
00:14:55
◼
►
- Tough compare. - Favorable mix.
00:14:56
◼
►
- Tough compare.
00:14:57
◼
►
- No, no, no, it's a favorable mix, Myke.
00:14:59
◼
►
- Good compare? - It's not a tough compare.
00:15:00
◼
►
It's a good compare.
00:15:01
◼
►
It's a favorable mix. - Good compare.
00:15:03
◼
►
So basically there could be a bunch of things here.
00:15:05
◼
►
Could be a little bit more expensive
00:15:07
◼
►
and also they're expecting to sell
00:15:09
◼
►
maybe more of the Pro phones,
00:15:10
◼
►
which I actually would expect considering
00:15:13
◼
►
that the pro phones are expected to be making
00:15:16
◼
►
the leaps this year where the regular phones might not be.
00:15:19
◼
►
So for just consistency sake,
00:15:22
◼
►
the pro phones should be getting always on display,
00:15:25
◼
►
removing the notch and replacing it with the cutouts,
00:15:27
◼
►
48 megapixel camera and an A16 processor,
00:15:30
◼
►
which rumors are suggesting the iPhone 14 and 14 Max
00:15:35
◼
►
wouldn't get any of these features.
00:15:37
◼
►
- Yeah, I ran, so I ran some numbers.
00:15:39
◼
►
- Oh yes, love it.
00:15:41
◼
►
- I put in the existing phone line and their prices
00:15:46
◼
►
and what I, you know, a vague guess
00:15:48
◼
►
about how they sell percentage wise.
00:15:50
◼
►
And then I copied that and I changed it.
00:15:54
◼
►
And what I did was I just did removing the mini
00:15:58
◼
►
and replacing it with a max that's priced $100
00:16:01
◼
►
more than the 14 would be or the 13
00:16:04
◼
►
and changed the mix a little bit
00:16:07
◼
►
so that there were more Max's sold.
00:16:11
◼
►
And that came out of maybe the,
00:16:14
◼
►
not only the mini, which is gone,
00:16:16
◼
►
but also out of the regular model.
00:16:19
◼
►
And I can't get, I mean, that was my initial thought was,
00:16:24
◼
►
they must be figuring that the new mix will push them up
00:16:27
◼
►
because it would, if the new phone
00:16:29
◼
►
that's the bigger low-end phone is $100 more,
00:16:31
◼
►
that's gonna increase their average value.
00:16:34
◼
►
And the answer is yes, it will.
00:16:36
◼
►
it's not gonna increase it by 15%.
00:16:38
◼
►
15% means everything's going up 100, 10 to 15%,
00:16:41
◼
►
everything's going up $100,
00:16:43
◼
►
and there's a change in mix that's favorable to Apple.
00:16:47
◼
►
You're right, it may also be
00:16:49
◼
►
that when they're not doing a new processor
00:16:52
◼
►
in the low-end models, that the low-end models will lag
00:16:55
◼
►
and the high-end models will be even more of it.
00:16:58
◼
►
But my initial reaction was, oh, this must be about mix,
00:17:02
◼
►
but 15% or even 10%, it's too much.
00:17:05
◼
►
It's a very large number.
00:17:07
◼
►
And if you really look at it,
00:17:09
◼
►
the thing that makes the most sense is
00:17:11
◼
►
what was 799 becomes 899.
00:17:14
◼
►
What was 999 becomes 1099.
00:17:17
◼
►
And that is just the given what's going on
00:17:20
◼
►
with the strength of the dollar,
00:17:21
◼
►
given what's going on with inflation,
00:17:24
◼
►
like it would not surprise me at all
00:17:28
◼
►
if Apple just lifted every iPhone by a hundred dollars.
00:17:31
◼
►
And kept the old ones on sale, right?
00:17:34
◼
►
- Of course, of course.
00:17:36
◼
►
- Okay, so what we're probably looking at here
00:17:39
◼
►
is like some mixture of all of it,
00:17:40
◼
►
but as you're saying, no matter,
00:17:42
◼
►
like as in like it could be the mix,
00:17:44
◼
►
it could be the fact that there's a max, not a mini,
00:17:46
◼
►
so that can be more expensive,
00:17:48
◼
►
but even, but you still have to most likely increase prices
00:17:53
◼
►
to get to a 15% increase, if quo is correct.
00:17:57
◼
►
- If quo is correct, that's what I'm saying,
00:17:59
◼
►
is that you're looking at a scenario
00:18:00
◼
►
where you have an iPhone 14 at 799,
00:18:04
◼
►
an iPhone 14 Max, no, an iPhone 14 at 899
00:18:07
◼
►
and a 14 Max at 999, 14 Pro at 1099
00:18:12
◼
►
and 14 Pro Max at 1199.
00:18:16
◼
►
And there are some rumors about specs improving.
00:18:20
◼
►
So it might be one of those things where you're like,
00:18:22
◼
►
well, it doesn't sound like Apple to just raise every price.
00:18:25
◼
►
It's like, yeah, but they might start the storage higher
00:18:28
◼
►
than they did before and say, oh, but look,
00:18:30
◼
►
it's not really that big of a change
00:18:32
◼
►
if you compare the storage to what it was before,
00:18:35
◼
►
we just eliminated the lower storage tier.
00:18:38
◼
►
You know, there are ways to massage that price increase
00:18:41
◼
►
of the base model.
00:18:43
◼
►
But we talk a lot here about how there's marketing
00:18:47
◼
►
and buying psychology that goes on
00:18:48
◼
►
when Apple positions its products.
00:18:50
◼
►
And one of the ways it does that
00:18:51
◼
►
is it creates that low-end price
00:18:53
◼
►
so that you can quote a number,
00:18:55
◼
►
like you can get in the door for this price.
00:18:56
◼
►
But then you look at that model,
00:18:58
◼
►
whether it's a MacBook Air or an iPhone or an iPad,
00:19:01
◼
►
and you go, "Yeah, but I don't want that one.
00:19:03
◼
►
"I want the one that's even more expensive."
00:19:04
◼
►
So that low price got you in the door,
00:19:06
◼
►
but it's not the price you're gonna pay.
00:19:08
◼
►
So there are ways for them to do that with this,
00:19:09
◼
►
but when Qo's saying, like,
00:19:12
◼
►
"Bottom line, it's gonna be 15% more
00:19:15
◼
►
"in average selling price,"
00:19:18
◼
►
I think the only way you do that is by raising the prices.
00:19:22
◼
►
- You mentioned about the storage thing.
00:19:25
◼
►
So there seems to be a bit of back and forth
00:19:27
◼
►
from some analysts as to whether
00:19:28
◼
►
they're going to do this or not.
00:19:30
◼
►
I think this might be a bit of conjecture really
00:19:32
◼
►
more than any particular reporting,
00:19:35
◼
►
but it seems like that some people are suggesting
00:19:38
◼
►
that we could see an increase in the starting storage
00:19:42
◼
►
of at least the pro funds.
00:19:44
◼
►
- Yeah, I don't think the storage is,
00:19:48
◼
►
I guess it's profit, but it's not that expensive for Apple
00:19:53
◼
►
to vary the storage, I feel like.
00:19:55
◼
►
I feel like the storage is a great place for them
00:19:58
◼
►
to force people to pay more for more
00:20:00
◼
►
because it's the only time you can do it is right then.
00:20:03
◼
►
But I think that's a pretty easy way for Apple
00:20:07
◼
►
to raise the base price, throw in something
00:20:11
◼
►
so they can say, "Ah, but you get more,"
00:20:13
◼
►
without it actually hurting their profit margin
00:20:16
◼
►
very much at all.
00:20:17
◼
►
- Yeah, I expect that they still do what they used to do,
00:20:21
◼
►
which is buy just obscene amounts of storage at once.
00:20:24
◼
►
- Yeah, sure. - Right?
00:20:25
◼
►
Like this was that thing about,
00:20:27
◼
►
there was that particular,
00:20:29
◼
►
like that drive, that small drive, right, wasn't SSD,
00:20:32
◼
►
it was a small drive for the iPod,
00:20:35
◼
►
and they just bought basically all of it.
00:20:37
◼
►
And then they used to do this for NAND flash as well, right?
00:20:39
◼
►
Like there was always reports back in the day that like,
00:20:41
◼
►
oh well, Apple bought all of what was available
00:20:44
◼
►
for the iPod Nano, and you just can't get it.
00:20:48
◼
►
And I expect that, obviously they're not doing that anymore
00:20:50
◼
►
because everyone uses this stuff now,
00:20:52
◼
►
but you've got to assume that
00:20:54
◼
►
they just buy obscene amounts of storage
00:20:57
◼
►
and just have it around.
00:20:58
◼
►
So like that, the price changes there are not gonna be
00:21:02
◼
►
as huge as they might be if you were just going in
00:21:04
◼
►
and buying one yourself.
00:21:06
◼
►
- And keep in mind, we're talking about 128.
00:21:07
◼
►
128 is not really a great number for storage on a phone.
00:21:10
◼
►
It's not great.
00:21:12
◼
►
So they could lift those, especially on the pro models,
00:21:14
◼
►
they could lift those up to 256 as the base
00:21:17
◼
►
and basically say it's the same price.
00:21:20
◼
►
It's literally, 'cause right now that $100 shift
00:21:23
◼
►
is just going up to 256.
00:21:25
◼
►
So they could eliminate the 128,
00:21:29
◼
►
keep it at 256 at a higher tier for even more money
00:21:33
◼
►
and say, yes, the base price is higher,
00:21:38
◼
►
but if you compare it to the existing models,
00:21:41
◼
►
it's the same price, right?
00:21:42
◼
►
Like that would allow them to do that.
00:21:44
◼
►
But it means that you've eliminated all the 799 phones
00:21:48
◼
►
because they're all eight.
00:21:49
◼
►
All of those now are going to go up to 899.
00:21:52
◼
►
You can't buy in for less than $899
00:21:55
◼
►
and you just say $256 is the new base.
00:21:58
◼
►
They definitely could do that
00:21:59
◼
►
on some or all of these phones.
00:22:01
◼
►
Again, conjecture, but it's definitely something
00:22:03
◼
►
they could do.
00:22:04
◼
►
- I wonder if this will lead to all those like
00:22:06
◼
►
trade-in, trade-in, trade-in things.
00:22:08
◼
►
Could film the last time that they did that.
00:22:10
◼
►
Do you remember when they raised the phone prices
00:22:12
◼
►
and people seemed to be a bit cool on it?
00:22:14
◼
►
So then they just like blitzed all of the retail stores
00:22:17
◼
►
with trade-in signs?
00:22:18
◼
►
- Trade-ins and discounts and things like that, sure.
00:22:20
◼
►
Well, keep in mind, this is also a really weird time
00:22:22
◼
►
because it's the third year of the same model, right?
00:22:25
◼
►
And so Apple, this is where Apple makes more of an effort.
00:22:28
◼
►
Remember when Apple didn't make any effort at all
00:22:30
◼
►
to sell iPhones, they just happened?
00:22:31
◼
►
Well, now they make more of an effort
00:22:33
◼
►
and we're going to revisit that third year of the cycle
00:22:36
◼
►
where Apple has to make a greater effort to move iPhones.
00:22:40
◼
►
But not to get ahead of ourselves here,
00:22:42
◼
►
but like the reports are that they are making
00:22:45
◼
►
as many phones as they would normally make.
00:22:47
◼
►
They're not, like some of their competitors
00:22:49
◼
►
are cutting manufacturing orders
00:22:52
◼
►
'cause they see a slowdown here
00:22:54
◼
►
and Apple doesn't seem to see that.
00:22:55
◼
►
So Apple seems confident that they're gonna be able
00:22:57
◼
►
to sell a whole bunch of iPhones anyway.
00:23:00
◼
►
They may have to work harder at it.
00:23:02
◼
►
- Yeah, Debbie Wuh at Bloomberg says
00:23:03
◼
►
that Apple were expecting demand to still be strong,
00:23:06
◼
►
ordering at least 90 million iPhone units,
00:23:08
◼
►
which is on par with the iPhone 13 line.
00:23:11
◼
►
I just wanted to come back to what you said
00:23:11
◼
►
about the third year thing.
00:23:13
◼
►
I think it's an asterisk, like, yes,
00:23:16
◼
►
The overall design of the phone is going to be the same
00:23:20
◼
►
as the 13 and the same as the 12.
00:23:23
◼
►
But what we're gonna get this time is big regular phone,
00:23:28
◼
►
that's new, and the pro phones,
00:23:32
◼
►
they're gonna look visibly different,
00:23:33
◼
►
especially at the screen, right?
00:23:35
◼
►
- Look, when I say I assume the upgrade ends
00:23:38
◼
►
are well versed in all of this,
00:23:39
◼
►
'cause we talk about it here a lot,
00:23:41
◼
►
third year doesn't mean nothing's changed.
00:23:44
◼
►
There's always, in fact, Apple has to go out of its way
00:23:46
◼
►
every year where there's not a visual change
00:23:48
◼
►
to make some reason why you might upgrade.
00:23:51
◼
►
And people are on a multi-year cycle for their phones.
00:23:54
◼
►
So they're probably upgrading from the old look anyway,
00:23:57
◼
►
although in year three, they may be coming
00:23:59
◼
►
from the first year of the existing look.
00:24:03
◼
►
The Apple always, I mean, you could make an argument
00:24:06
◼
►
that many of the iPhone's greatest tech leaps happen
00:24:09
◼
►
in the boring year, right?
00:24:11
◼
►
Because they're changing it on the inside,
00:24:14
◼
►
but not changing it on the outside.
00:24:16
◼
►
And yeah, I mean, there are absolutely things
00:24:18
◼
►
to be interested about in the 14.
00:24:21
◼
►
It's just that in the larger market,
00:24:24
◼
►
if you look at phone sales,
00:24:26
◼
►
the big bump comes when they change the outside
00:24:30
◼
►
and then it goes, it kind of flattens off from there.
00:24:33
◼
►
And it's that year.
00:24:34
◼
►
So I'm not saying that they won't sell phones.
00:24:37
◼
►
They obviously think they will.
00:24:39
◼
►
I'm just saying they have to work harder at it.
00:24:40
◼
►
And I would say upgrading the specs
00:24:42
◼
►
and doing things like making a new model
00:24:44
◼
►
that's a 14 max and putting in the new camera this year,
00:24:49
◼
►
that's all part of working harder.
00:24:52
◼
►
- Good point.
00:24:53
◼
►
- Yeah, and as you say, right,
00:24:54
◼
►
like the chassis being the same,
00:24:56
◼
►
but changing the screen, right?
00:24:58
◼
►
It's like that's working harder, right?
00:25:00
◼
►
Because you're realizing what can I change
00:25:03
◼
►
without changing the entire thing?
00:25:06
◼
►
- Right, we're not changing the stainless steel band
00:25:08
◼
►
and the glass back and all that this time.
00:25:10
◼
►
We have an idea for next time and oh boy,
00:25:12
◼
►
Just, we'll get there, but what can we do this time?
00:25:15
◼
►
And the answer, well, we could change the cutouts
00:25:17
◼
►
in the screen now and not wait for a year.
00:25:19
◼
►
And we finally got that new camera system.
00:25:21
◼
►
We'll put it in this year.
00:25:22
◼
►
And then next year, it'll be in the new one
00:25:26
◼
►
that everybody goes, people who are concerned
00:25:29
◼
►
about the look, I mean, I think there's some truth in this.
00:25:32
◼
►
People who are concerned about the camera
00:25:34
◼
►
will rush to buy the 14 Pro.
00:25:35
◼
►
People who are concerned about the look,
00:25:37
◼
►
maybe they wait for the 15.
00:25:38
◼
►
And that's fine, 'cause again, there are different audiences
00:25:42
◼
►
at different times.
00:25:42
◼
►
And the goal is just to get Apple to their, you know,
00:25:45
◼
►
90 million iPhones or whatever that they wanna sell
00:25:48
◼
►
for this cycle.
00:25:49
◼
►
- I think even if Apple wanted to,
00:25:50
◼
►
they couldn't sell an iPhone
00:25:52
◼
►
to every iPhone customer every year, right?
00:25:55
◼
►
- Certainly not.
00:25:56
◼
►
- They can't tailor to that.
00:25:57
◼
►
They can't even,
00:25:58
◼
►
there's not even an attempt to try and do that
00:26:00
◼
►
because they would not be able to do it.
00:26:03
◼
►
- And they've got the different constituencies.
00:26:04
◼
►
In fact, I would,
00:26:05
◼
►
there's probably something written on a whiteboard
00:26:08
◼
►
somewhere at Apple,
00:26:08
◼
►
or was written on a whiteboard at Apple
00:26:10
◼
►
before it was erased in order to protect everybody
00:26:13
◼
►
from all the secrets getting out.
00:26:15
◼
►
But there probably is a philosophy somewhere
00:26:18
◼
►
that is what are the upgrade propositions this year
00:26:23
◼
►
and over the three-year span?
00:26:25
◼
►
So you can say sort of like, we wanna make sure, right?
00:26:27
◼
►
It just makes sense.
00:26:29
◼
►
First year, the look is gonna sell it.
00:26:31
◼
►
Second year though, what's gonna sell it?
00:26:33
◼
►
Third year, what's gonna sell it?
00:26:34
◼
►
Because you want selling points every year.
00:26:36
◼
►
Otherwise, why are you even doing this, right?
00:26:38
◼
►
Like you gotta, like what?
00:26:40
◼
►
No new iPhones this year, everybody.
00:26:42
◼
►
We're nothing interesting, nothing new here,
00:26:44
◼
►
just some colors.
00:26:46
◼
►
They're not gonna do that.
00:26:47
◼
►
So they have to plan out what the different things are
00:26:49
◼
►
and those will appeal to different people.
00:26:51
◼
►
And then I think also there are some iPhone buyers
00:26:53
◼
►
that do it based on time,
00:26:54
◼
►
where it's literally like every two or three years,
00:26:57
◼
►
they're like, "Oh, I'm gonna get a new iPhone."
00:26:58
◼
►
And it doesn't, you know,
00:27:00
◼
►
what they get is the accumulated features
00:27:02
◼
►
of the last two or three or four years.
00:27:04
◼
►
And that works for them too.
00:27:06
◼
►
So I think Apple probably knows all of those constituencies
00:27:09
◼
►
And it's also good for Apple because yeah,
00:27:12
◼
►
they can't do a brand new entirely different phone
00:27:16
◼
►
So you upgrade the camera system this year,
00:27:18
◼
►
you change the look this year,
00:27:19
◼
►
you upgrade some new WYSI sensor or processor
00:27:22
◼
►
or something this year,
00:27:23
◼
►
and you make it all kind of progress.
00:27:26
◼
►
- In his Power On newsletter,
00:27:28
◼
►
Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple is looking
00:27:32
◼
►
to triple the revenue that it makes from ads.
00:27:36
◼
►
So there have apparently been some restructuring at Apple
00:27:40
◼
►
with the head of their ad business,
00:27:42
◼
►
someone named Todd Terese,
00:27:45
◼
►
now reporting directly to EdiQ.
00:27:47
◼
►
Terese is now apparently looking to increase the revenue
00:27:50
◼
►
that their Apple makes from ads
00:27:52
◼
►
from around $4 billion per year to a double digit figure.
00:27:56
◼
►
It's being reported that triple, right?
00:27:58
◼
►
You could triple it.
00:27:59
◼
►
So we've recently seen Apple add the Today tab App Store ads,
00:28:05
◼
►
It was previously just search and now they're adding what looks like sponsored content kind
00:28:11
◼
►
of stuff into the whole mix.
00:28:17
◼
►
You could create some graphic and put it there and make it look like it's part of an ad,
00:28:26
◼
►
like a part of the content in the apps.
00:28:27
◼
►
It's actually an ad I should say.
00:28:30
◼
►
This is like more inventory, more placements.
00:28:32
◼
►
Let's keep putting the ads everywhere that we possibly can.
00:28:36
◼
►
Mark Gurman believes that maps could be a place to add more ad inventory to in the future.
00:28:42
◼
►
And there's been some internal exploration to this as well as more of their digital storefronts
00:28:46
◼
►
like books, podcasts, et cetera.
00:28:50
◼
►
When I saw this report, I immediately thought that this seems like somebody at Apple disagrees
00:28:57
◼
►
with the approach and told Mark Gurman about it.
00:29:00
◼
►
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's always the question of why did something leak and what was the motivator
00:29:05
◼
►
in having it leak. And that is definitely a possibility, if somebody is like not happy
00:29:12
◼
►
with this and wants to call it out so that people will talk about it.
00:29:16
◼
►
It's the naming of it to me. And like just more details in the story of like this figure,
00:29:23
◼
►
Todd Toreci, like being really into it and like wanting to push it and having lots of
00:29:27
◼
►
meetings because it kind of feels to me like the way I look at it is on the
00:29:32
◼
►
surface do I believe this is something they're gonna do yes but this also
00:29:37
◼
►
sounds like an executive that wants to be really important right so maybe Todd
00:29:42
◼
►
DeRaisse is walking around saying I want a triple ad revenue and like that's just
00:29:45
◼
►
their thing that they want to do you know yeah you could you could see how
00:29:50
◼
►
somebody might somebody at Apple who doesn't like this approach of like we're
00:29:53
◼
►
gonna try to put ads as many places as we can, who thinks that Apple is not an ad company
00:29:59
◼
►
and that it junks up the customer experience. And I would say most of Apple is probably
00:30:05
◼
►
at least inclined to believe that. The people who sweat on the hardware and the software
00:30:11
◼
►
and want, you know, "We're Apple. We make this great user experience." And then there's
00:30:18
◼
►
Here's the group that they talk about on the calls with Wall Street where they're like,
00:30:24
◼
►
you know, we're growing services and we're growing ad revenue and isn't it good that
00:30:27
◼
►
we're making more money? And it's not hard to imagine that somebody discovers that the
00:30:35
◼
►
iad guy has been given more direct, you know, who was walled off for a while, is now reporting
00:30:43
◼
►
directly to Eddie. And it's like, oh boy, that guy, right? And I don't know anything
00:30:47
◼
►
about this guy. He might be a nice guy or not, but he's the ad guy regardless. And
00:30:53
◼
►
how somebody else might look at that and say, "This is not what Apple should be doing."
00:30:57
◼
►
And I mean, my feelings on this are pretty clear, which is I think that the – I'm
00:31:04
◼
►
not allergic to ads. I'm really not. I think ads have their place. However, Apple jamming
00:31:12
◼
►
ads into its products that we're already paying for feels, I mean, I would be more, I mean,
00:31:25
◼
►
this is a hard one. I would be more understanding of it if I felt like, well, this is how Apple
00:31:31
◼
►
needs to do business to survive. And maybe that's unfair. Maybe the answer should always
00:31:36
◼
►
be, I'm sure Wall Street would tell you, the answer should always be, if you can make money,
00:31:40
◼
►
make money. If you can make more money, make more money. That's always the answer. I would
00:31:45
◼
►
argue, and I used to argue this as part of my job, actually, that you degrade the product
00:31:53
◼
►
when you insert ads everywhere, because while ads are not fundamentally bad, ad placements
00:31:59
◼
►
tend to get out of hand, and they get out of hand quickly to the detriment of the user.
00:32:05
◼
►
And because of that, you have to ask the big picture questions of, do we turn away revenue
00:32:14
◼
►
because it makes our product worse?
00:32:17
◼
►
Or do we not care that it makes our product worse?
00:32:20
◼
►
And when I look at a lot of the stuff that Apple's already doing, I think it makes their
00:32:23
◼
►
product worse.
00:32:24
◼
►
I think the App Store, they talk about the App Store ads being like, oh, well, it helps
00:32:30
◼
►
people find stuff.
00:32:31
◼
►
Like, okay, but you got ads up at the top of search
00:32:35
◼
►
for things that are not what people are searching for.
00:32:38
◼
►
And then below you've got the thing
00:32:40
◼
►
people are actually searching for.
00:32:42
◼
►
So what you're doing is you're allowing people
00:32:43
◼
►
to eclipse the right answer with their answer
00:32:47
◼
►
based on payment.
00:32:48
◼
►
And since these are all app developers,
00:32:50
◼
►
what you're also having them do is bid against each other
00:32:54
◼
►
for the right to give back the money they earned from Apple
00:32:57
◼
►
to Apple in order to get better placement
00:33:01
◼
►
to make more money, which they will then presumably
00:33:03
◼
►
give back to Apple to do more placement.
00:33:06
◼
►
I don't think it is helpful,
00:33:08
◼
►
more helpful than having a good search algorithm.
00:33:11
◼
►
Certainly not the way that it's implemented.
00:33:13
◼
►
- It's like another tax on top of the one
00:33:16
◼
►
they're already paying.
00:33:18
◼
►
- Right, no, it is.
00:33:19
◼
►
And I felt that for a while that the App Store ads
00:33:22
◼
►
is just like, if you're, people are mad about the 30%.
00:33:27
◼
►
How about this?
00:33:28
◼
►
How about that if you don't take an ad out
00:33:30
◼
►
for the name of your product,
00:33:31
◼
►
your competitor will be there
00:33:32
◼
►
when people search for your product name.
00:33:33
◼
►
It's like, what a racket is what I'll say.
00:33:36
◼
►
What a racket to say, well, you know,
00:33:39
◼
►
if they search for overcast and they find Spotify,
00:33:42
◼
►
you could pay us more money, Marco,
00:33:44
◼
►
and then they wouldn't find Spotify.
00:33:46
◼
►
It's like, it's just a, anyway,
00:33:49
◼
►
and again, I'm not allergic to ads.
00:33:51
◼
►
There are places where ads are probably fine.
00:33:55
◼
►
The idea that if you had a maps search
00:34:00
◼
►
and somebody paid to have their item also appear
00:34:02
◼
►
on the search or something like that.
00:34:04
◼
►
I don't love it, but like, you know,
00:34:07
◼
►
I can see the argument for it.
00:34:09
◼
►
But as the person who's always the editorial person
00:34:13
◼
►
jousting with the salespeople at a website,
00:34:16
◼
►
which was the product, right?
00:34:18
◼
►
I think a lot of people who are involved in ad sales
00:34:23
◼
►
make terrible decisions based on small amounts of revenue
00:34:28
◼
►
because they believe that all new revenue is good
00:34:31
◼
►
and it never has deleterious effects.
00:34:34
◼
►
And it's not true, you junk up your product.
00:34:36
◼
►
And I think the app store is junked up.
00:34:38
◼
►
I think that if they're gonna put apps in maps,
00:34:41
◼
►
maybe it'll be tasteful, but it probably won't be.
00:34:43
◼
►
They put them in the bookstore or in Apple podcasts,
00:34:47
◼
►
are they gonna be good or are they gonna be junky?
00:34:50
◼
►
And like, it's not very hard to make them crappy,
00:34:54
◼
►
which is not to say again that all ads are bad.
00:34:57
◼
►
But it also, I think, is a problem when you've got
00:35:01
◼
►
this feeling that Apple is like searching around
00:35:03
◼
►
in the couch cushions for change
00:35:07
◼
►
when it's one of the richest companies in the world.
00:35:09
◼
►
And I think that is, I get why they might do that
00:35:12
◼
►
to satisfy Wall Street, but I think it is
00:35:15
◼
►
one of the worst traits of modern Apple
00:35:18
◼
►
is this idea that they need to make more money
00:35:22
◼
►
even if it means junking up their product
00:35:24
◼
►
because they make a lot of money on their product.
00:35:27
◼
►
And one of their selling propositions is that their product
00:35:29
◼
►
is not full of junk.
00:35:31
◼
►
This is like, I'm not saying that they would do this,
00:35:34
◼
►
but this is like putting a crapware on new Macs.
00:35:39
◼
►
That would increase revenue.
00:35:40
◼
►
- Right, like charging companies like,
00:35:42
◼
►
"Hey, Microsoft, give us some money and we'll..."
00:35:45
◼
►
Yeah. - Yeah.
00:35:46
◼
►
I don't wanna give Todd Toreci any ideas,
00:35:47
◼
►
but like, I mean, there's certainly incremental revenue
00:35:50
◼
►
to be made pre-installing trial software
00:35:52
◼
►
on every Mac that gets sold.
00:35:54
◼
►
How about pre-installing apps on iPhones too?
00:35:57
◼
►
I mean, you can take this pretty far
00:36:00
◼
►
and they haven't yet, which is good,
00:36:03
◼
►
but like, I think there's maybe an attitude of like,
00:36:05
◼
►
ah, but it's just ads.
00:36:07
◼
►
It's just ads, it's fine.
00:36:09
◼
►
And it's not always fine.
00:36:13
◼
►
So them ruffling through the couch cushions
00:36:16
◼
►
for another, you know, $6 billion of ad revenue, you know,
00:36:22
◼
►
It strikes me that this is some executive,
00:36:25
◼
►
probably Tim Cook, saying to Eddy Cue,
00:36:27
◼
►
"More revenue from ads."
00:36:29
◼
►
But in a tasteful way.
00:36:31
◼
►
It's like, okay, we'll see.
00:36:35
◼
►
We'll see about that.
00:36:35
◼
►
I am very skeptical about all the places
00:36:38
◼
►
that they're sticking ads.
00:36:39
◼
►
And the fact that you, in general, for a premium product,
00:36:42
◼
►
the fact that there are ads you can't escape,
00:36:44
◼
►
I just don't like it.
00:36:45
◼
►
I don't like the idea that there are ads you can't escape
00:36:48
◼
►
because this is a premium product.
00:36:50
◼
►
And when the ads are getting in the way
00:36:52
◼
►
of the actual content, ads can be content, right?
00:36:55
◼
►
But there are a lot of times when ads get in the way
00:36:57
◼
►
of the content that you're actually looking for.
00:36:59
◼
►
And that leaves aside the whole other issue,
00:37:01
◼
►
which is the fact that Apple has cleared out
00:37:03
◼
►
a lot of third-party ad networks like Facebook
00:37:06
◼
►
with the app tracking transparency,
00:37:08
◼
►
but that's not gonna stop them from doing first-party ads,
00:37:11
◼
►
which are basically all ads that are sold by Apple
00:37:14
◼
►
and shown on Apple's platforms are allowed
00:37:16
◼
►
because Apple has defined those as fine,
00:37:21
◼
►
so that's, which is nice for Apple.
00:37:23
◼
►
- You know, obviously we're an ad-supported program,
00:37:26
◼
►
but if the percentage of revenue we made from ads
00:37:29
◼
►
was the same as what Apple does from ads,
00:37:31
◼
►
we wouldn't run ads.
00:37:32
◼
►
You know, like, if there was,
00:37:34
◼
►
if the upgrade merch store, right,
00:37:36
◼
►
made us however much money it made,
00:37:38
◼
►
and then our ads made us, like, whatever percentage,
00:37:40
◼
►
like 1%, we just wouldn't do the ads anymore, right?
00:37:44
◼
►
But it doesn't work like that for us.
00:37:46
◼
►
- It's a difficult balance.
00:37:47
◼
►
And like I said, again, ads,
00:37:48
◼
►
I don't think ads are fundamentally bad.
00:37:49
◼
►
I would also say we also sell a premium version
00:37:53
◼
►
of the show without ads, right?
00:37:54
◼
►
But I've always felt like Apple's promise
00:37:57
◼
►
was that it was the premium version.
00:37:59
◼
►
Like all Apple products are the premium version
00:38:03
◼
►
of the product, right?
00:38:04
◼
►
But to have, and I don't wanna live in a world
00:38:07
◼
►
where you buy an iPhone for $1,000
00:38:10
◼
►
and then like Amazon, there's a, for an extra $100,
00:38:14
◼
►
you can turn off the ads.
00:38:15
◼
►
I don't wanna live in that world.
00:38:18
◼
►
But that is what makes me uneasy
00:38:20
◼
►
is that I'm not sure that this push toward ads
00:38:23
◼
►
is something that, it's not that it can't be done in a way
00:38:28
◼
►
that is seen to benefit the user
00:38:30
◼
►
and be a kind of wholesome thing.
00:38:32
◼
►
I think there are ways to do it that way.
00:38:34
◼
►
But if the App Store search is any example,
00:38:37
◼
►
like again, it feels like a protection racket to me,
00:38:41
◼
►
and it gets in the way of your actual search results.
00:38:43
◼
►
And I do not like it.
00:38:44
◼
►
That's what I'm saying.
00:38:45
◼
►
If people haven't gotten that approach,
00:38:46
◼
►
just I wanna be clear here, do not like.
00:38:49
◼
►
- What I don't like about it
00:38:50
◼
►
is it just feels hypocritical to me.
00:38:52
◼
►
Even though it like technically isn't,
00:38:53
◼
►
it just feels it and I don't like it.
00:38:55
◼
►
I think Apple's gone to such great lengths
00:38:58
◼
►
to try and make it seem like online advertising is bad
00:39:01
◼
►
and like they're just,
00:39:03
◼
►
everyone's trying to steal your information
00:39:04
◼
►
and sell it to each other people,
00:39:06
◼
►
but our advertising is fine.
00:39:07
◼
►
- And their sales pitch for their advertising
00:39:09
◼
►
will be we know everything about our users, right?
00:39:12
◼
►
- But it's okay 'cause we're Apple and we're the first party.
00:39:14
◼
►
Gurman says, "Oh, they're probably not gonna bring iAd back."
00:39:17
◼
►
That's not part of the plan right now.
00:39:19
◼
►
iAd was Apple's own in-app ad network.
00:39:22
◼
►
And I was sitting there raising my eyebrow
00:39:24
◼
►
when I read that on Sunday morning.
00:39:25
◼
►
Fortunately today, today on Stratechery,
00:39:28
◼
►
Ben Thompson wrote about it
00:39:29
◼
►
and said exactly what I was thinking,
00:39:30
◼
►
which is they'll totally bring back iAd.
00:39:33
◼
►
They're totally gonna do that
00:39:34
◼
►
because once they've cleared out all value from in-app ads
00:39:39
◼
►
because they're from third-party trackers,
00:39:42
◼
►
Step two is you come in with your first party ad solution
00:39:46
◼
►
and nobody has a choice but to use Apple's ad solution
00:39:50
◼
►
because Apple's the only one with the data.
00:39:52
◼
►
Then again, the report says
00:39:54
◼
►
that they're not currently planning that.
00:39:56
◼
►
I would say common sense suggests
00:39:58
◼
►
that if they're doing all of this,
00:40:00
◼
►
they are absolutely gonna start selling ads into apps too
00:40:03
◼
►
because why would they let anybody else make that money
00:40:06
◼
►
when they can make it themselves?
00:40:07
◼
►
And I think that's the attitude here.
00:40:09
◼
►
- I do think the only reason that they wouldn't do it
00:40:12
◼
►
is if they think that they legally would,
00:40:14
◼
►
it would be too difficult.
00:40:15
◼
►
- Well, I do agree if they release that,
00:40:18
◼
►
it would make the screams from the likes of Facebook
00:40:21
◼
►
even louder and would probably open them up
00:40:23
◼
►
to more scrutiny. - As it should go.
00:40:24
◼
►
- Absolutely. - Right?
00:40:26
◼
►
- Yeah, well now that we've killed your business,
00:40:28
◼
►
we're gonna take over your business.
00:40:29
◼
►
- It's like how many more shoes could drop at that point?
00:40:32
◼
►
- There's the whole of Mel DeMarco's.
00:40:34
◼
►
- The whole shoe store.
00:40:35
◼
►
- Yep, mm-hmm.
00:40:36
◼
►
The footlocker, the whole footlocker
00:40:38
◼
►
is happening right there. - It's everywhere.
00:40:41
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00:42:37
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I had a note in my little show notes document which said "Jason's HomeKit cameras" and I
00:42:45
◼
►
don't know what this is in reference to.
00:42:47
◼
►
So I wanted to ask you, Jason do you have HomeKit cameras?
00:42:51
◼
►
Umm, errr, technically, yes, but asterisk.
00:43:00
◼
►
I have cameras that show up in the home app.
00:43:05
◼
►
- Homebridge?
00:43:06
◼
►
- No, it's so there--
00:43:10
◼
►
- This is great.
00:43:11
◼
►
- Homekick, yeah, that's right, it's a base of, sorry.
00:43:14
◼
►
I'm on the advice of my attorney.
00:43:17
◼
►
I have been told to take the fifth here.
00:43:19
◼
►
Now I have, so I have Arlo cameras.
00:43:26
◼
►
which is, are they still part of Netgear?
00:43:31
◼
►
I think they might've been spun out,
00:43:34
◼
►
but like it's basically Netgear made them.
00:43:37
◼
►
And I've had them for a while.
00:43:38
◼
►
I've actually upgraded them all during that time.
00:43:40
◼
►
Arlo cameras are wireless and they are their own thing.
00:43:45
◼
►
So recently they did a software update
00:43:47
◼
►
that allows them to work with HomeKit,
00:43:50
◼
►
but it's a weird situation
00:43:52
◼
►
because they're not HomeKit secure video,
00:43:55
◼
►
but they do show up in the Home app,
00:43:57
◼
►
but because of the way they're built,
00:43:59
◼
►
they don't quite work the way you would expect
00:44:02
◼
►
a HomeKit camera to work.
00:44:03
◼
►
'Cause basically they're,
00:44:05
◼
►
because they're wireless, they basically go to sleep
00:44:12
◼
►
and they've got motion triggers to wake them up
00:44:14
◼
►
because they're trying to,
00:44:15
◼
►
in most cases, trying to conserve battery.
00:44:17
◼
►
Now I actually have two of them are plugged into power
00:44:20
◼
►
and two of them are attached to solar panels on my roof,
00:44:24
◼
►
little tiny solar panels that keep them,
00:44:26
◼
►
the top up their charge.
00:44:27
◼
►
So for the most part, they are actually powered,
00:44:31
◼
►
but the way the whole system works,
00:44:34
◼
►
they kind of go to sleep and then they wake up.
00:44:36
◼
►
So when I watch, like I open, just open the home app
00:44:40
◼
►
and I've got like one that says it's been,
00:44:45
◼
►
it's the view of 10 seconds ago,
00:44:46
◼
►
and one's the view of six seconds ago,
00:44:48
◼
►
and one's the view of now,
00:44:50
◼
►
but the view of now is not actually the live view.
00:44:53
◼
►
If I click on it, I get the live view.
00:44:54
◼
►
So it's iffy, like they're present
00:44:58
◼
►
and I can theoretically like watch them in on Apple TV
00:45:01
◼
►
by they have a little camera view,
00:45:03
◼
►
they're in the home app,
00:45:04
◼
►
but they're not, they're sort of vaguely homekit.
00:45:08
◼
►
- That sounds like a homekit camera to me.
00:45:11
◼
►
It's just they're not homekit secure video, right?
00:45:14
◼
►
- Well, that's true.
00:45:15
◼
►
Well, and I think they're refreshing.
00:45:16
◼
►
I think that they are doing some cheating on the server
00:45:19
◼
►
'cause there's like a base station.
00:45:20
◼
►
I think they're doing some cheating
00:45:21
◼
►
on the base station level to, like I said,
00:45:24
◼
►
seem like an immediate thumbnail of what's going on outside,
00:45:28
◼
►
and it's a lie.
00:45:29
◼
►
Maybe all HomeKit cameras are like that.
00:45:31
◼
►
- I mean, the cameras that like, you know,
00:45:33
◼
►
we have a Canary camera,
00:45:34
◼
►
which I can't believe is still working.
00:45:37
◼
►
We have-- - None of us can, Myke.
00:45:39
◼
►
- We have a Ring thing here at the studio.
00:45:41
◼
►
And like, then none of them like the alive live,
00:45:43
◼
►
there's always a delay,
00:45:44
◼
►
'cause it's gonna go up to the server
00:45:45
◼
►
and then push to you, right?
00:45:47
◼
►
So it's not like--
00:45:48
◼
►
- No, but this is the case where like,
00:45:49
◼
►
I'm looking right now at my side yard,
00:45:51
◼
►
And there is a view that I don't think,
00:45:56
◼
►
well, maybe it is live.
00:45:58
◼
►
When I click on it, yeah, I guess so.
00:46:00
◼
►
I guess it is.
00:46:01
◼
►
It's so they're refreshing every so often
00:46:03
◼
►
with a thumbnail of what's going on out there.
00:46:06
◼
►
But it's not all the time.
00:46:08
◼
►
And then if I click it, it brings up the live view.
00:46:10
◼
►
So it used to be everything was just in the Arlo app,
00:46:14
◼
►
but now I can see the live views in HomeKit.
00:46:16
◼
►
If I wanna see the past stuff, I go to the Arlo app
00:46:19
◼
►
and that's where it's got its past stuff.
00:46:21
◼
►
I actually, because I have the Arlo base station,
00:46:23
◼
►
it's got a little drive attached to it.
00:46:24
◼
►
So I've actually got even more video kind of archive
00:46:27
◼
►
on there that it just writes to it.
00:46:29
◼
►
So if I had something particularly interesting
00:46:31
◼
►
or exciting happen, I could go to the footage
00:46:33
◼
►
and see if I could find it there.
00:46:36
◼
►
Yeah, they're fine.
00:46:37
◼
►
I got them part 'cause I thought it was cool.
00:46:40
◼
►
And then there was a break-in down the street
00:46:43
◼
►
and they asked if I had video,
00:46:44
◼
►
'cause they saw my camera, if I had video
00:46:46
◼
►
and honestly I'd left that,
00:46:47
◼
►
I let the battery run down on the old camera
00:46:51
◼
►
And I had to say, no, I don't actually have any video
00:46:54
◼
►
that might've caught somebody passing by.
00:46:56
◼
►
And I realized, okay, well, if I'm gonna have these cameras,
00:46:58
◼
►
I need to actually keep them powered.
00:46:59
◼
►
So I got a couple of new cameras
00:47:01
◼
►
and I got the solar panels
00:47:04
◼
►
and I plugged two of them in to power directly.
00:47:09
◼
►
And so now that's what my setup is.
00:47:13
◼
►
To be honest, the most exciting thing that it shows me
00:47:15
◼
►
is what cats have been in my backyard.
00:47:18
◼
►
- But I get to have.
00:47:19
◼
►
- The cameras, they're wireless, right?
00:47:22
◼
►
- Cameras are wireless.
00:47:23
◼
►
- But they work with HomeKit.
00:47:25
◼
►
- But they work with HomeKit, yeah.
00:47:26
◼
►
So they're wireless, they talk to a base station
00:47:29
◼
►
that is the Arlo base station,
00:47:31
◼
►
but it's basically a Netgear,
00:47:32
◼
►
it looks a lot like a Netgear Wi-Fi base station,
00:47:34
◼
►
except it's built for the Arlo cameras.
00:47:37
◼
►
And like I said, they're meant to be,
00:47:40
◼
►
because you don't have networking
00:47:44
◼
►
or even power in some places.
00:47:45
◼
►
The Arlo infrastructure was always sort of like,
00:47:47
◼
►
You don't need to have power to a place
00:47:49
◼
►
where you put your camera.
00:47:51
◼
►
And I now have two positioned in places
00:47:53
◼
►
where I do have outlets that can run to them.
00:47:56
◼
►
But like I said, the other two,
00:47:57
◼
►
there's no power near them at all.
00:47:59
◼
►
And so for them, you can either charge the battery
00:48:03
◼
►
every two months or something, which is what I used to do.
00:48:06
◼
►
But now with the new cameras and the solar panels,
00:48:11
◼
►
even in the winter, it does a pretty good job.
00:48:14
◼
►
Occasionally I get a low battery warning
00:48:16
◼
►
and I have to like reposition the panel
00:48:19
◼
►
that's literally just laying on my roof.
00:48:22
◼
►
But because the-
00:48:24
◼
►
- So you have the solar too then,
00:48:26
◼
►
you do have that interest.
00:48:27
◼
►
- I do, I have two solar panels,
00:48:29
◼
►
one attached to each of the,
00:48:31
◼
►
so the unplug cameras recharge themselves with solar now.
00:48:34
◼
►
I haven't had to recharge them at all.
00:48:36
◼
►
Even in the dead of winter,
00:48:37
◼
►
it gets enough sun in order to keep the battery charged.
00:48:44
◼
►
'Cause it's got a battery in it
00:48:45
◼
►
that's supposed to go for months and months.
00:48:48
◼
►
And so generally that's close enough.
00:48:50
◼
►
And if I had a problem, I would go and charge it
00:48:52
◼
►
and then bring it back out,
00:48:53
◼
►
but I actually haven't had to do that.
00:48:55
◼
►
- That's very cool.
00:48:56
◼
►
I see 'cause I came across Arlo recently
00:48:59
◼
►
because I was looking for a HomeKit video doorbell.
00:49:05
◼
►
- And they make one, but it's the wired one.
00:49:08
◼
►
And I want a wireless one.
00:49:11
◼
►
- And I don't think, please upgrade in,
00:49:13
◼
►
tell me if you found.
00:49:14
◼
►
I don't think a wireless video doorbell that works with HomeKit exists.
00:49:19
◼
►
And I don't know why, but I think it's just, I've only been able to
00:49:25
◼
►
find wired products that exist.
00:49:27
◼
►
Cause this is the thing that keeps saying, like, I know that the wireless
00:49:31
◼
►
cameras with HomeKit is sometimes a newer thing, but also like a, doesn't
00:49:39
◼
►
necessarily work exactly the way that you would think and or can't get all
00:49:43
◼
►
of the features, right?
00:49:44
◼
►
It seems like that something being wired
00:49:47
◼
►
seems to be pretty important,
00:49:48
◼
►
or at least it being like a hub or whatever.
00:49:51
◼
►
But that's cool, I didn't know
00:49:52
◼
►
that they did the solar panels.
00:49:53
◼
►
I don't know how well that would work in the UK.
00:49:55
◼
►
Probably I'm glad. - I think in the UK,
00:49:57
◼
►
I honestly don't know.
00:49:59
◼
►
- But if it works for you in the winter, maybe.
00:50:02
◼
►
At least it worked for me in the summer.
00:50:03
◼
►
- Maybe, maybe, yeah, for sure, for sure.
00:50:06
◼
►
And I think, I don't know if I'm even using their panels.
00:50:08
◼
►
I may be using the Works with Arlo panels
00:50:11
◼
►
that I got on Amazon, 'cause they're cheaper.
00:50:14
◼
►
The Arlo solar panel is like 40 pounds.
00:50:16
◼
►
It's not that wildly expensive.
00:50:18
◼
►
- And it's small.
00:50:19
◼
►
They're all, they're very small.
00:50:21
◼
►
And like they've got a whole mounting thing and all that.
00:50:22
◼
►
And I'm, because of my roof and the status of my roof
00:50:25
◼
►
and all that, it was actually easier for me
00:50:26
◼
►
to just toss it on my roof.
00:50:29
◼
►
It just lays there.
00:50:30
◼
►
It just lays there and drinks in the sun.
00:50:32
◼
►
It's like, it's not going anywhere.
00:50:33
◼
►
It's not a problem.
00:50:34
◼
►
- You just come out one day
00:50:35
◼
►
and there's a bunch of solar panels
00:50:37
◼
►
just like hanging from cables, you know?
00:50:39
◼
►
Like little wind chimes. - I guess, except,
00:50:40
◼
►
I don't know, that would be, you know,
00:50:42
◼
►
That would be unusual weather to have the solar panels
00:50:44
◼
►
be disturbed.
00:50:45
◼
►
I also have an ethernet cable snaking over the top
00:50:48
◼
►
So my roof is a--
00:50:49
◼
►
- What was that for again?
00:50:50
◼
►
I know we were talking about that.
00:50:51
◼
►
- It's connecting my back of the house
00:50:53
◼
►
to the front of the house.
00:50:55
◼
►
- But what is it--
00:50:56
◼
►
- With ethernet.
00:50:57
◼
►
- Comes out of here and then goes over the roof
00:50:58
◼
►
to my back bedroom where there's more stuff
00:51:01
◼
►
and another Eero, yeah.
00:51:04
◼
►
- Which is instead of doing some kind of wild thing
00:51:07
◼
►
in the house, right, which would be really complicated.
00:51:09
◼
►
- Well, yeah, we don't have an attic
00:51:11
◼
►
And so really the only way you can wire things
00:51:15
◼
►
is by punching holes in the walls.
00:51:17
◼
►
So there is a hole punched in the wall
00:51:19
◼
►
over in the bedroom for the cable.
00:51:22
◼
►
I'm going to rewire my house at some point here.
00:51:25
◼
►
This is really verging on like Casey List territory now,
00:51:28
◼
►
but I am gonna rewire and do it sort of more properly
00:51:31
◼
►
and not over the roof and run it along under the eaves,
00:51:36
◼
►
but I just haven't had a chance to do that yet.
00:51:38
◼
►
So I've got a giant spool of ethernet cable here.
00:51:41
◼
►
But yeah, anyway, my roof has got all sorts of stuff on it,
00:51:43
◼
►
including solar panels.
00:51:44
◼
►
That's fine, it works great.
00:51:45
◼
►
- I also wanted to ask you about your smart lock.
00:51:49
◼
►
- Oh yes, sure.
00:51:51
◼
►
Let's talk about it.
00:51:52
◼
►
What do you wanna know?
00:51:53
◼
►
- How is smart lock life for you?
00:51:56
◼
►
- So smart lock life is okay,
00:51:59
◼
►
but it feels very much like a first generation product
00:52:03
◼
►
and I want the second generation product.
00:52:06
◼
►
And the problem is that due to legacy nodes,
00:52:11
◼
►
the second generation product
00:52:14
◼
►
is basically not available anywhere.
00:52:17
◼
►
So there are starting to be locks,
00:52:21
◼
►
theoretically, some shipped and then they stopped
00:52:24
◼
►
and they're out of inventory
00:52:25
◼
►
and hopefully there'll be more inventory at some point.
00:52:27
◼
►
But there started to be some new locks
00:52:29
◼
►
that use home key basically, they use NFC.
00:52:34
◼
►
And that's what I want because NFC Smart Lock,
00:52:40
◼
►
The way Apple's written their software for NFC stuff
00:52:43
◼
►
like locks, you literally can tap without doing anything
00:52:47
◼
►
you tap with your watch or your phone and the door unlocks.
00:52:50
◼
►
- Yeah, this is like the fast pass thing for travel.
00:52:55
◼
►
- Yeah, same idea.
00:52:56
◼
►
So that's what I want.
00:52:58
◼
►
What I have is a couple of years old
00:53:01
◼
►
and it uses Bluetooth LE.
00:53:03
◼
►
And you know, okay, what I like about the smart lock is
00:53:07
◼
►
It does things like auto-lock
00:53:10
◼
►
when you leave the door unlocked.
00:53:13
◼
►
After a couple of minutes, you can set the time.
00:53:15
◼
►
It locks itself.
00:53:16
◼
►
That's nice.
00:53:17
◼
►
If you leave the door open, it sends you an alert saying,
00:53:20
◼
►
"Oh, the door is open.
00:53:23
◼
►
What I don't like about it is that the Bluetooth LE thing
00:53:27
◼
►
is unreliable.
00:53:29
◼
►
It's a really clever hack,
00:53:31
◼
►
but the way that they have to do it is
00:53:34
◼
►
The lock is looking for your phone via Bluetooth LE.
00:53:39
◼
►
And when it sees it, it knows that you're there
00:53:42
◼
►
and that's great.
00:53:44
◼
►
And then what happens is your phone,
00:53:47
◼
►
your phone leaves the vicinity of your house
00:53:50
◼
►
and you have to set a radius.
00:53:51
◼
►
And then the app on your phone basically says, "I'm gone."
00:53:54
◼
►
And then when your lock sees the phone again,
00:54:00
◼
►
it goes, "Yay, you're back," and it unlocks the door.
00:54:03
◼
►
There's lots of reasons for this.
00:54:04
◼
►
and it's a very kind of cleverly done,
00:54:06
◼
►
and it works sometimes.
00:54:09
◼
►
And a lot of times it doesn't work.
00:54:11
◼
►
And when it does work, a lot of times it works so slowly
00:54:14
◼
►
that you're standing at the door waiting for it to open.
00:54:16
◼
►
And I don't want that.
00:54:17
◼
►
I wanna be able to tap and enter.
00:54:18
◼
►
I wanna use my phone or my watch as a key.
00:54:21
◼
►
I think it's a much better approach.
00:54:22
◼
►
The other problems I have with those first-generation locks,
00:54:25
◼
►
'cause I have the Yale August smart lock that does HomeKit.
00:54:29
◼
►
The other problem is the lock
00:54:32
◼
►
is sort of a generic smart lock.
00:54:35
◼
►
And then there's a module that you put in it.
00:54:37
◼
►
And so it's got the HomeKit module in it.
00:54:39
◼
►
But because it's using some sort,
00:54:41
◼
►
I don't even know what its smart home tech is,
00:54:43
◼
►
if it's Zigbee or something like that,
00:54:44
◼
►
but it's basically you have to have a dongle.
00:54:48
◼
►
You have to have a little white block
00:54:50
◼
►
that you plug in to an outlet somewhere.
00:54:53
◼
►
And it's a bridge between the Bluetooth,
00:54:56
◼
►
maybe it only does Bluetooth.
00:54:58
◼
►
Actually, I think it only does Bluetooth.
00:54:59
◼
►
So it has to be close enough to be in Bluetooth range,
00:55:01
◼
►
plugged into a wall, it talks to the lock in Bluetooth
00:55:05
◼
►
and then talks to your network in wifi.
00:55:07
◼
►
And let me tell you,
00:55:08
◼
►
this is where it all starts to come apart
00:55:11
◼
►
because the little dongle can lose track of the network
00:55:16
◼
►
or the lock.
00:55:19
◼
►
The lock can lose track of a dongle.
00:55:21
◼
►
The lock when it's four AA batteries get low,
00:55:26
◼
►
but not so low that it tells you that the batteries are low
00:55:29
◼
►
can start behaving erratically and not seeing,
00:55:34
◼
►
so you'll open the app and it'll say,
00:55:36
◼
►
"Your door is locked and your door is not locked."
00:55:39
◼
►
Or, "Your door is unlocked and it is locked."
00:55:42
◼
►
Because the app is talking to the dongle,
00:55:45
◼
►
the dongle thinks it knows what's going on with the lock,
00:55:47
◼
►
but either the lock is lying to it
00:55:49
◼
►
or the lock is not talking to it right now.
00:55:51
◼
►
But it doesn't say, "I can't find the lock."
00:55:53
◼
►
It says, "Oh no, no, I see the lock and it's fine,
00:55:55
◼
►
and it's not fine."
00:55:56
◼
►
And that does not give you a great sense of confidence
00:55:59
◼
►
when the battery, so, and this is, I think,
00:56:03
◼
►
the fatal flaw of this August lock that I have now,
00:56:06
◼
►
the Yale August lock, is if the battery,
00:56:09
◼
►
once the batteries start to run down,
00:56:11
◼
►
it starts to behave strangely.
00:56:13
◼
►
And I've discovered now that whenever we have a weird moment
00:56:17
◼
►
with the lock, first thing I do is unplug the dongle
00:56:20
◼
►
and plug it back in.
00:56:20
◼
►
Second thing is I take out a battery
00:56:22
◼
►
and put it back in to reboot the lock.
00:56:24
◼
►
And then after, if it's been a little while
00:56:26
◼
►
since we changed the batteries, I changed the batteries.
00:56:28
◼
►
And a lot of times changing the batteries
00:56:31
◼
►
solves the whole thing for a while.
00:56:34
◼
►
And it's not great.
00:56:35
◼
►
Like it should do a better job of saying,
00:56:37
◼
►
"I help, I need new batteries," than it does.
00:56:40
◼
►
And so, you know, so it's fine,
00:56:44
◼
►
but none of it, like I said,
00:56:46
◼
►
it's a first-generation product.
00:56:49
◼
►
It is the kind of tech you buy saying,
00:56:51
◼
►
"Hey, smart lock, that's fun."
00:56:52
◼
►
And then you realize all the things that they need
00:56:54
◼
►
to make better for smart locks to be a thing.
00:56:57
◼
►
And I'm hopeful that this next generation of locks
00:57:00
◼
►
is a thing and the reviews are pretty good
00:57:02
◼
►
from the people who've gotten them,
00:57:04
◼
►
but they ran out, they basically only made a few thousand
00:57:07
◼
►
or whatever and then they can't make more
00:57:09
◼
►
and they haven't come in from the factory
00:57:10
◼
►
because of supply chain.
00:57:12
◼
►
And so we're left kind of waiting.
00:57:13
◼
►
But I've got my eye on that next generation smart lock
00:57:17
◼
►
and I will swap it out because the auto locking is great.
00:57:21
◼
►
the auto-unlocking when you come home is great.
00:57:23
◼
►
I can leave my house with,
00:57:25
◼
►
when I like go for a run or something,
00:57:27
◼
►
I don't bring a key with me, right?
00:57:30
◼
►
And you can do that with a dumb lock, with a number pad.
00:57:32
◼
►
I mean, the bottom line is that
00:57:33
◼
►
when it is in super dumb mode,
00:57:35
◼
►
you can still just key in the code
00:57:39
◼
►
and it opens the door, right?
00:57:41
◼
►
Which is fine.
00:57:42
◼
►
That's the, you know,
00:57:44
◼
►
some locks now that are smart locks
00:57:46
◼
►
have an actual keyhole too.
00:57:49
◼
►
So you can actually have a key
00:57:50
◼
►
if you don't wanna deal with the smart features all.
00:57:52
◼
►
And that's fine.
00:57:53
◼
►
Mine doesn't have that now and it's fine.
00:57:55
◼
►
But certainly if the battery died completely,
00:57:59
◼
►
the best way to get into the house would be
00:58:00
◼
►
if you could actually stick a key in it, which you can't.
00:58:03
◼
►
- Do you have a lock that you're interested in?
00:58:05
◼
►
Like at this second gen? - I do, Myke.
00:58:09
◼
►
I kinda don't wanna talk about it
00:58:10
◼
►
because they're gonna come into stock
00:58:12
◼
►
and I wanna buy one. - Oh, okay.
00:58:13
◼
►
- All right, I'll talk. - We'll follow up.
00:58:14
◼
►
- Okay, upgrading's fine.
00:58:15
◼
►
You know, if you find them in stock,
00:58:17
◼
►
here's the deal upgrade,
00:58:18
◼
►
and I'm gonna tell you what it is.
00:58:20
◼
►
But if you find it in stock somewhere at a Home Depot
00:58:23
◼
►
or a Lowe's or something like that,
00:58:24
◼
►
if their website says they're in stock,
00:58:26
◼
►
you gotta let me know immediately.
00:58:27
◼
►
- Jason eats first, all right?
00:58:29
◼
►
- I mean, well, no,
00:58:30
◼
►
but like they're gonna come in stock soon probably.
00:58:33
◼
►
And then they'll sell them all
00:58:35
◼
►
and then they'll be out of stock again
00:58:36
◼
►
for another few months.
00:58:37
◼
►
- Right, but that's what I'm saying.
00:58:38
◼
►
If Upgradians see it,
00:58:40
◼
►
they gotta tell you that they've seen it.
00:58:43
◼
►
And then they can buy one,
00:58:44
◼
►
but they gotta tell you first. - Tell no one else.
00:58:47
◼
►
- Until I've confirmed that I bought it.
00:58:48
◼
►
Okay, it's the, I don't know how this company
00:58:51
◼
►
pronounces its name in America, Schleg or Schlage
00:58:54
◼
►
is how we would say it in German.
00:58:56
◼
►
Encode Plus.
00:58:57
◼
►
The Encode Plus is a home key,
00:59:02
◼
►
is this the one?
00:59:05
◼
►
I think it is.
00:59:06
◼
►
The home key compatible tap your watch.
00:59:10
◼
►
Yeah, that's what it is.
00:59:11
◼
►
Tap your iPhone or Apple Watch to unlock.
00:59:13
◼
►
That is the thing.
00:59:17
◼
►
And there are reviews out there from April.
00:59:20
◼
►
Since those reviews dropped,
00:59:21
◼
►
they have not been available to purchase.
00:59:25
◼
►
- Shlog. - It kills me.
00:59:26
◼
►
It's killing me.
00:59:27
◼
►
It's a shlog, shlage, shlage.
00:59:30
◼
►
Anyway, they, they, it's an NFC door lock, smart lock.
00:59:34
◼
►
- Very interesting.
00:59:36
◼
►
- Encode Plus.
00:59:37
◼
►
- Encode Plus. - It's gotta be
00:59:38
◼
►
the Encode Plus.
00:59:38
◼
►
There are other ones,
00:59:39
◼
►
but the Encode Plus is the one with NFC.
00:59:41
◼
►
- Other encodes are available,
00:59:43
◼
►
and they are not the one you want.
00:59:44
◼
►
- Mm, they are, actually.
00:59:45
◼
►
And so I'm looking for, you know,
00:59:48
◼
►
I'm looking for one of those.
00:59:50
◼
►
It's gotta be satin nickel
00:59:52
◼
►
because it has to match the rest of my door.
00:59:55
◼
►
And I hope that they come into stock at some point soon.
00:59:59
◼
►
That would be awfully nice.
01:00:01
◼
►
- This episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph.
01:00:05
◼
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So you've hired a brilliant developer.
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It's awesome.
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But now you have to get them onboarded.
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And if your company's growing,
01:00:10
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onboarding new developers will be a common occurrence
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and a big undertaking every single time. One of the huge challenges for new hires is to
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get up to speed with the projects that they're going to be working on with their new team.
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This can be tricky if the codebases that your developers are working in are already large.
01:00:26
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Well thankfully Sourcegraph will make it easy to move fast in those big codebases. Developers
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know that knowledge is most useful when it's findable, right? Everyone can sympathise with
01:00:36
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that, that makes sense. Socialisation, bringing everything together, that's helpful. But
01:00:41
◼
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But given the fact that most companies do store knowledge in at least two different
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As a code intelligence platform, Sourcegraph gives developers what they need to drive their
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more that's about.sourcegraph.com to find out why some of the biggest tech companies
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in the world use Sourcegraph and to see what it can do for yours. Or just click the link
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in the show notes to let them know that you found out about them from this show. Our thanks
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to Sourcegraph for the support of this show and Relay FM.
01:01:49
◼
►
All right, when we were together in the historic episode of Upgrade, where we sat far across
01:01:59
◼
►
a table from each other.
01:02:01
◼
►
After eating in and out burger.
01:02:02
◼
►
Yes, the social distance episode of Upgrade.
01:02:04
◼
►
where I was very full of coronavirus
01:02:08
◼
►
and you were very kind.
01:02:10
◼
►
- At the long end of the table, like pooping.
01:02:12
◼
►
- Long end of the table.
01:02:14
◼
►
- Long end of the table.
01:02:15
◼
►
Long end of the table.
01:02:18
◼
►
- We were talking, you were telling me the story
01:02:21
◼
►
of how you accidentally upgraded your Mac Studio
01:02:26
◼
►
to Ventura, to macOS Ventura.
01:02:30
◼
►
- Well, you've done it again.
01:02:31
◼
►
- I did that.
01:02:32
◼
►
I did it again, it's true.
01:02:33
◼
►
Oops, I did it again.
01:02:34
◼
►
- And as I wrote in the document,
01:02:36
◼
►
Jason's second Ventura upgrade,
01:02:38
◼
►
and this time it's personal.
01:02:40
◼
►
Because you've done it by choice now, right?
01:02:43
◼
►
- I did it on purpose.
01:02:44
◼
►
Yeah, this time it's purposeful.
01:02:46
◼
►
Yeah, I did it.
01:02:49
◼
►
I gotta live with it.
01:02:50
◼
►
This is the reality of writing about betas,
01:02:53
◼
►
is at some point you have to live with them,
01:02:56
◼
►
and live with them is not reboot into them occasionally
01:02:59
◼
►
as a tourist, and then go back to your actual work.
01:03:02
◼
►
it isn't running it in a virtual machine,
01:03:04
◼
►
at some point you actually have to use it
01:03:06
◼
►
because otherwise you're not experiencing it.
01:03:10
◼
►
Right, like I can't write about the details
01:03:12
◼
►
of an operating system I'm not using
01:03:13
◼
►
just by like kind of flitting around
01:03:15
◼
►
and looking at menus and stuff and then leaving.
01:03:17
◼
►
You gotta put yourself through it, even if there are bugs.
01:03:20
◼
►
And so I had to do that.
01:03:21
◼
►
And the difficulty with that is that there is software
01:03:24
◼
►
that we rely on to do podcasts that doesn't work in it.
01:03:28
◼
►
So I have to commit to this
01:03:31
◼
►
and I also have to commit to a janky recording setup
01:03:34
◼
►
where I'm recording and talking to people for podcasts
01:03:37
◼
►
on a separate computer because that's the only way.
01:03:42
◼
►
So I'm looking, I'm sitting here at my desk
01:03:43
◼
►
looking at my studio display on my Mac studio
01:03:46
◼
►
that I do every day like I used to do with my iMac.
01:03:49
◼
►
And then off to the left is a laptop
01:03:53
◼
►
that is running Zoom and Audio Hijack.
01:03:55
◼
►
And that's where we're actually having this conversation.
01:03:58
◼
►
- So all of your audio gear is connected to the,
01:04:01
◼
►
what laptop is it now?
01:04:03
◼
►
- MacBook Air.
01:04:04
◼
►
- MacBook Air, is it the new one?
01:04:06
◼
►
- It's actually the Apple review unit
01:04:09
◼
►
because it doesn't have to go back for another month
01:04:11
◼
►
and by then hopefully Audio Hijack will run on Ventura.
01:04:14
◼
►
So we'll see.
01:04:15
◼
►
- So you've got all of your audio gear plugged into that
01:04:18
◼
►
and that's doing the recording.
01:04:20
◼
►
But you're looking at all the show notes and Discord
01:04:22
◼
►
and everything on your Mac studio in Ventura.
01:04:25
◼
►
- On the studio display in front of you.
01:04:28
◼
►
and I'm able to use universal control to click the buttons
01:04:30
◼
►
I need to click over on the MacBook Air,
01:04:32
◼
►
but mostly it just sits there.
01:04:33
◼
►
- Now that's cool, isn't it?
01:04:34
◼
►
That's a cool feature that wasn't there.
01:04:36
◼
►
I guess the last time you tried to do this.
01:04:38
◼
►
- Was not there the last time I tried to do this.
01:04:40
◼
►
So that part is nice, that part is nice.
01:04:42
◼
►
- 'Cause you do this every year anyway.
01:04:46
◼
►
And it's not just because like this year it's special
01:04:48
◼
►
because AudioHydric just doesn't work
01:04:50
◼
►
like by developer choice at the moment, right?
01:04:53
◼
►
Is that still the case?
01:04:54
◼
►
- Last year was also the case.
01:04:55
◼
►
I mean, yeah, it's still the case.
01:04:58
◼
►
- Okay, that was like, I couldn't remember if,
01:04:59
◼
►
'cause I know in the past it hasn't worked,
01:05:01
◼
►
which is why they have decided to just keep it
01:05:05
◼
►
to themselves until they have full support.
01:05:06
◼
►
- That's the answer, is two years ago it broke horribly.
01:05:09
◼
►
Last year and this year they decided
01:05:11
◼
►
they were just going to turn off support for it
01:05:13
◼
►
because otherwise they're going to get people
01:05:16
◼
►
complaining that it doesn't work.
01:05:17
◼
►
And the truth is, I talked to Paul Kaphas
01:05:21
◼
►
of "Rogue Amoeba" about this, the truth is OS updates
01:05:25
◼
►
tend to break the audio subsystem.
01:05:27
◼
►
they just do.
01:05:28
◼
►
And a rogue Amoeba's concern is that they're gonna get
01:05:32
◼
►
blamed for bugs that are Apple's bugs in the betas.
01:05:36
◼
►
And when somebody's recording fails, it's really bad.
01:05:39
◼
►
And so they basically have made the executive decision
01:05:43
◼
►
to not let you make a bad decision about using audio hijack
01:05:46
◼
►
on a beta by saying no.
01:05:49
◼
►
- 'Cause at least this where they can't be blamed.
01:05:51
◼
►
However, you don't necessarily know this is gonna happen
01:05:53
◼
►
to you until it happens to you though, right?
01:05:55
◼
►
- Indeed, and in fact, I mean, that's what,
01:05:58
◼
►
the thing that bothers me about it is,
01:05:59
◼
►
I have no evidence that it actually
01:06:01
◼
►
doesn't work fine in Ventura.
01:06:04
◼
►
- But at least for what you wanna do.
01:06:06
◼
►
- For what I wanna do, I don't know,
01:06:08
◼
►
but it doesn't matter because it doesn't work, it's disabled.
01:06:11
◼
►
So second computer it is.
01:06:13
◼
►
Last year I used my Mac Mini,
01:06:15
◼
►
which I've since moved out of my office
01:06:16
◼
►
and it's in another room in the house.
01:06:18
◼
►
But last year I had the Mac Mini
01:06:19
◼
►
and I had a big, big USB extension cord
01:06:24
◼
►
so I could run from all the way where the Mac Mini was
01:06:26
◼
►
over to where my audio interface was and plug in
01:06:29
◼
►
and use remote desktop to control everything,
01:06:32
◼
►
use screens for that.
01:06:34
◼
►
But now I just have a laptop sitting here.
01:06:37
◼
►
I had to buy an ethernet adapter for it.
01:06:40
◼
►
I mean, also though, in the past,
01:06:42
◼
►
there has been like a,
01:06:44
◼
►
I'm just not going to use Ventura to record the podcast
01:06:47
◼
►
because if something goes wrong.
01:06:50
◼
►
- Right, like that's definitely been a thing.
01:06:52
◼
►
So how long have you been using it daily?
01:06:55
◼
►
- Couple of weeks.
01:06:57
◼
►
- How has this experience been so far?
01:07:00
◼
►
- It's fine.
01:07:03
◼
►
I notice very little that is an issue.
01:07:06
◼
►
I think Safari is, I've had some weird things in Safari,
01:07:09
◼
►
which I think are extension related,
01:07:11
◼
►
but I think it's one of those cases where extensions
01:07:14
◼
►
get out of sync with Safari,
01:07:16
◼
►
where you've got like a beta of Safari,
01:07:18
◼
►
but the extensions are not beta.
01:07:21
◼
►
And so I've had to turn off a bunch of browser extensions
01:07:24
◼
►
and I've had cases where Safari just gets really slow
01:07:27
◼
►
or it loads really slowly or it can't see a webpage.
01:07:30
◼
►
I also related to that,
01:07:31
◼
►
I had private browsing turned itself back on.
01:07:35
◼
►
So I turned that back off and that helped some,
01:07:38
◼
►
but I think extensions are still an issue.
01:07:41
◼
►
- What do you mean private browsing turned itself back on?
01:07:43
◼
►
What does it mean?
01:07:44
◼
►
- Well, I haven't had the iCloud private browsing feature on
01:07:50
◼
►
- Oh, you mean iCloud private relay?
01:07:52
◼
►
- Private relay, yeah, that's it.
01:07:53
◼
►
- Right, 'cause private browsing is different.
01:07:55
◼
►
- Sorry, it's just the other thing.
01:07:56
◼
►
- Yeah, 'cause that was a little confusing.
01:07:58
◼
►
You can turn it off?
01:07:59
◼
►
- No, it's the iCloud relay thing that I don't want
01:08:01
◼
►
because it doesn't work right
01:08:02
◼
►
even though it's not in beta anymore.
01:08:03
◼
►
Is it still in beta?
01:08:04
◼
►
I don't know, anyway.
01:08:05
◼
►
I turned it off again and then everything was okay.
01:08:09
◼
►
Except for all the parts that weren't okay
01:08:11
◼
►
because of extensions and it would slow.
01:08:12
◼
►
And I have apps that are slow, like BB Edit is sluggish
01:08:17
◼
►
and I don't know why.
01:08:19
◼
►
I filed that as a feedback.
01:08:20
◼
►
I asked bare bones about it and they said,
01:08:22
◼
►
"Hmm, file that as a feedback."
01:08:24
◼
►
I was like, okay, well that suggests
01:08:26
◼
►
that something is going on that they don't like.
01:08:29
◼
►
So yeah, but it's fine.
01:08:30
◼
►
Generally, I can get my job done and it's usable.
01:08:35
◼
►
I have opinions that I'm putting together
01:08:39
◼
►
about some of the decisions they've made.
01:08:42
◼
►
I think the Settings app is still kind of a disaster,
01:08:47
◼
►
but I'm still using it and forming my opinions
01:08:50
◼
►
and we'll go from there.
01:08:52
◼
►
But I did write last week on Six Colors
01:08:54
◼
►
about how they took a feature that's been in Mac OS
01:08:56
◼
►
since 10.0 and removed it in this version.
01:08:59
◼
►
- What was this feature?
01:09:01
◼
►
I don't feel like I understand.
01:09:02
◼
►
- Network locations.
01:09:03
◼
►
It's basically you can set,
01:09:04
◼
►
you basically can set presets of your network settings
01:09:07
◼
►
and switch between them.
01:09:09
◼
►
Switch among them if you have many of them.
01:09:11
◼
►
And it's gone.
01:09:13
◼
►
It seems to exist still in the command line,
01:09:17
◼
►
but it's been removed from the interface itself.
01:09:20
◼
►
And it's been there since 10.0, I checked.
01:09:23
◼
►
You use Steven Hackett's library of screenshots to check.
01:09:26
◼
►
It's been there since 10.0.
01:09:28
◼
►
So I wrote about that.
01:09:29
◼
►
And there are some utilities that used to sort of like
01:09:30
◼
►
go beyond that have been largely abandoned
01:09:32
◼
►
that I wonder if they will come back because of that.
01:09:36
◼
►
And I don't know whether they abandoned that
01:09:38
◼
►
because the system settings interface was too complicated
01:09:41
◼
►
or whether they thought nobody used it or what.
01:09:44
◼
►
But I thought it was interesting that that feature is gone.
01:09:46
◼
►
And in general, I think that the settings app
01:09:49
◼
►
is kind of a mess and ugly and inconsistent and--
01:09:52
◼
►
- I will say this network locations thing,
01:09:55
◼
►
it definitely feels like something that like,
01:09:57
◼
►
it's fine to get rid of this, like coming, you know?
01:10:00
◼
►
- Well, so here is the thing.
01:10:02
◼
►
I think you're probably right.
01:10:04
◼
►
And it actually sounds like
01:10:05
◼
►
a great third party opportunity to me.
01:10:08
◼
►
- Like the existing apps may or may not be revived
01:10:11
◼
►
or somebody could write something new that does this.
01:10:13
◼
►
I believe the control down in the command line
01:10:16
◼
►
is still there to control these settings.
01:10:18
◼
►
So you could probably do it.
01:10:20
◼
►
Somebody wanted to make a new app
01:10:21
◼
►
that switched between network locations
01:10:25
◼
►
and maybe did some other stuff
01:10:26
◼
►
and maybe even offered shortcuts actions
01:10:28
◼
►
so people could use shortcuts
01:10:30
◼
►
to control the network locations.
01:10:31
◼
►
Like there's an opportunity here.
01:10:33
◼
►
Somebody on Twitter, and I don't know,
01:10:35
◼
►
it was not a real name, it was just a handle,
01:10:37
◼
►
suggested that the act of Apple removing a feature
01:10:40
◼
►
and therefore creating a third-party app opportunity
01:10:43
◼
►
should be called a Moriarty.
01:10:45
◼
►
- Yep, love it, into it.
01:10:46
◼
►
- Reverser, the reverse Sherlock.
01:10:48
◼
►
And I think probably, I think this is a good example
01:10:52
◼
►
where this utility didn't need to exist
01:10:54
◼
►
because it was just in the OS for the people who used it.
01:10:57
◼
►
And I did hear from people who use this feature.
01:10:59
◼
►
So this seems like a perfect kind of thing.
01:11:01
◼
►
It's esoteric enough that it doesn't need to be done
01:11:04
◼
►
by Apple as long as there's an option
01:11:06
◼
►
for the people who need it.
01:11:07
◼
►
- James Thompson in the chat,
01:11:08
◼
►
Network locations by Peacock.
01:11:12
◼
►
So what you do is you literally,
01:11:14
◼
►
you open network locations by Peacock
01:11:16
◼
►
and you're in the Peacock car.
01:11:19
◼
►
And if you want to go to a different location
01:11:21
◼
►
for your network, you have to drive there.
01:11:22
◼
►
- Yeah, get in there and drive.
01:11:24
◼
►
While we're just taking this brief pause
01:11:26
◼
►
in the conversation here,
01:11:29
◼
►
I'll just say that Savva in the Discord
01:11:31
◼
►
has posted a link to build.com, whatever that is.
01:11:35
◼
►
You can put an order in.
01:11:36
◼
►
It will arrive in nine to 14 weeks of the Schlag
01:11:39
◼
►
and Club Plus century touchscreen electronic deadbolt
01:11:45
◼
►
- I don't believe it.
01:11:46
◼
►
- You don't believe it's true?
01:11:48
◼
►
- I don't believe it.
01:11:49
◼
►
- Yeah, nine to 14 weeks sounds like they're just gonna
01:11:52
◼
►
email you in eight weeks and be like,
01:11:54
◼
►
"Sorry, this isn't happening."
01:11:55
◼
►
- Yeah, what I like about it is that they're actually
01:11:57
◼
►
taking orders, whereas most places are like,
01:11:59
◼
►
"We don't have it in stock."
01:12:01
◼
►
Whether they would actually ship the order
01:12:03
◼
►
remains to be seen.
01:12:04
◼
►
- Free shipping. - Maybe.
01:12:06
◼
►
free shipping. Stage Manager, do you use it?
01:12:09
◼
►
- Stage Manager, do you use it?
01:12:12
◼
►
- Well, let me ask you a second question
01:12:13
◼
►
before you answer the first question.
01:12:14
◼
►
Do you use it as more than a curiosity if you do use it?
01:12:18
◼
►
- I am not, I have not spent a lot of time in Stage Manager.
01:12:21
◼
►
And this is one of the telling things.
01:12:22
◼
►
There's the kind of experimenting with new features
01:12:26
◼
►
to review them and there's the doing my job.
01:12:29
◼
►
And I have not yet taken the plunge of saying,
01:12:32
◼
►
oh no, I'm going to try to do my job with Stage Manager.
01:12:34
◼
►
So I need to go back to that.
01:12:35
◼
►
I've spent time in it, but since I moved my primary to it,
01:12:39
◼
►
I have not spent any time with it.
01:12:41
◼
►
- I remain excited about "Stage Manager" on the Mac.
01:12:43
◼
►
I think I'm gonna really dig it.
01:12:45
◼
►
I think I'm gonna dig it.
01:12:47
◼
►
I assume one of the things you are spending a lot of time
01:12:49
◼
►
in though is the photos?
01:12:51
◼
►
- Yes, so much.
01:12:53
◼
►
- For the book, right?
01:12:54
◼
►
'Cause this is gonna be a big update year
01:12:56
◼
►
for your photos book.
01:12:58
◼
►
- Yeah, I think it's gonna be a full brand new edition,
01:13:02
◼
►
the whole thing.
01:13:03
◼
►
- It's take control of photos, right?
01:13:06
◼
►
- Take control of photos, yeah.
01:13:09
◼
►
- This must be a pretty daunting task.
01:13:10
◼
►
You're gonna get that thing done.
01:13:12
◼
►
- Yeah, and it's the middle of August now,
01:13:15
◼
►
so it really feels like the time,
01:13:16
◼
►
you know, it's right around the corner,
01:13:17
◼
►
the summer's gonna be over,
01:13:18
◼
►
and there's gonna be new iPhones and all that.
01:13:21
◼
►
Yeah, photos, I mean, the big change in photos, though,
01:13:24
◼
►
is the shared photo library stuff,
01:13:26
◼
►
which is, they've actually done a really good job with it.
01:13:28
◼
►
There are a lot of quirks that I get to detail in the book,
01:13:30
◼
►
but it's good, it's smart and it seems to work pretty well.
01:13:35
◼
►
So that's all good.
01:13:37
◼
►
I had to make a new Apple ID
01:13:41
◼
►
or revive an ancient unused Apple ID
01:13:44
◼
►
in order to share a photo library with myself
01:13:47
◼
►
in order to test that feature, which has been amusing
01:13:50
◼
►
'cause I'm not gonna force it on my family
01:13:53
◼
►
and I'm not gonna force betas on my family.
01:13:55
◼
►
So I've got like an iPhone that's logged into my me.com
01:13:59
◼
►
Apple ID, just so I can do all that kind of tests stuff.
01:14:04
◼
►
- Did you create a separate library to do the sharing
01:14:08
◼
►
or are you doing the sharing of your real library?
01:14:11
◼
►
- It's my real library. - Okay.
01:14:13
◼
►
- And again, that comes back to the tourist thing,
01:14:15
◼
►
which is I can't log out of my, I don't,
01:14:19
◼
►
I just, I can't do it.
01:14:21
◼
►
I've got my library and my library has been through
01:14:23
◼
►
a bazillion photos, betas.
01:14:25
◼
►
It's all backed up in case something disastrous happened,
01:14:28
◼
►
but I've never had something disastrous happen
01:14:31
◼
►
and I need to have the real photo library to test it out.
01:14:35
◼
►
- That makes sense.
01:14:38
◼
►
Do you have any other thoughts of Ventura?
01:14:40
◼
►
Is it gonna be, do you think like,
01:14:43
◼
►
really it's like photos and stage manager
01:14:44
◼
►
and then just keeping up with iOS features
01:14:47
◼
►
like messages or whatever?
01:14:49
◼
►
Is there anything else that interests you about it so far?
01:14:52
◼
►
- No, I feel like it's pretty quiet right now.
01:14:57
◼
►
Obviously the big stories on the iPad side,
01:15:01
◼
►
it's stage manager and on the iPhone side,
01:15:04
◼
►
it's the lock screen.
01:15:06
◼
►
Ventura, you know,
01:15:08
◼
►
the, I mean, it picks up all those other features
01:15:14
◼
►
that everybody else gets.
01:15:16
◼
►
And I've used the continuity camera a little bit
01:15:18
◼
►
and that is fine, but it is, you know,
01:15:21
◼
►
you use it and you're like, oh, there it is, right?
01:15:24
◼
►
That's what it is.
01:15:26
◼
►
- Oh yeah, continuity camera, yeah.
01:15:28
◼
►
- Yeah, I feel like that's the big Mac feature,
01:15:32
◼
►
is which it's actually an iPhone feature,
01:15:34
◼
►
but it's a Mac feature too, it's continuity camera.
01:15:36
◼
►
And then everything else is sort of for everybody.
01:15:39
◼
►
So yeah, I've unsent and edited messages
01:15:42
◼
►
and that was fine.
01:15:45
◼
►
I have not yet actually used a shared tab group
01:15:49
◼
►
for something that was not silly, but that's okay.
01:15:51
◼
►
And I need to force myself.
01:15:55
◼
►
Another thing I need to do is I have to force myself
01:15:56
◼
►
to use mail on Mac because I don't use mail on Mac.
01:16:00
◼
►
And I do on iPad and iPhone, but on the Mac I use--
01:16:03
◼
►
- Oh, right, yeah. - Mime stream.
01:16:04
◼
►
- 'Cause there's the like, modern Mac,
01:16:08
◼
►
modern email features, right?
01:16:10
◼
►
- Right, right, which are, I have to test out
01:16:12
◼
►
because it sounds like this is, we'll test them out,
01:16:15
◼
►
but it's one of those things where like Apple Silicon Macs
01:16:17
◼
►
don't really ever sleep, you know,
01:16:20
◼
►
they're kind of always awake at a low level,
01:16:23
◼
►
just like iPhones and iPads,
01:16:24
◼
►
and yet I believe when you queue a message to send
01:16:28
◼
►
at like 2 a.m. and you put your computer to sleep,
01:16:31
◼
►
it doesn't wake up at 2 a.m. and send the message,
01:16:33
◼
►
but I gotta test it.
01:16:34
◼
►
- John Voigt said that on a,
01:16:36
◼
►
and I go on an app stories, - It does make sense.
01:16:38
◼
►
- and my mind blows. - It does make sense.
01:16:40
◼
►
- It's like, what is the fricking point of that feature?
01:16:42
◼
►
- Well, let me tell you, I'm gonna file that away
01:16:45
◼
►
with the one that kills me to this day,
01:16:48
◼
►
which is I am so used to listening to music
01:16:52
◼
►
on an iPad or an iPhone.
01:16:55
◼
►
And if I'm listening to music on my Mac,
01:16:58
◼
►
unlike a MacBook Air that I've got my headphones in,
01:17:01
◼
►
or I've got AirPods connected to them,
01:17:04
◼
►
and I close the lid and the music stops playing
01:17:07
◼
►
and I go, "What?"
01:17:08
◼
►
Because on Apple's other devices,
01:17:11
◼
►
when you close the lid and the music is going,
01:17:14
◼
►
it keeps going. - It keeps going, yeah.
01:17:16
◼
►
- But on the Mac, they're like, "Nope, show's over.
01:17:18
◼
►
Nothing to see here."
01:17:19
◼
►
And this is just like that, which is,
01:17:21
◼
►
"Oh yeah, you can queue that thing to go at 2 a.m.,
01:17:23
◼
►
but the Mac won't actually send it," which doesn't,
01:17:26
◼
►
again, Apple Silicon theoretically isn't doing
01:17:29
◼
►
the dark wake thing where it's like,
01:17:32
◼
►
on Intel Macs, they would wake up for certain tasks.
01:17:36
◼
►
- Power nap.
01:17:37
◼
►
- Power nap, yeah.
01:17:39
◼
►
Dark wake was the developer title for it.
01:17:41
◼
►
There's theoretically no power nap on Apple Silicon Macs
01:17:44
◼
►
because they don't need to power nap
01:17:45
◼
►
'cause they're always around, except apparently not.
01:17:50
◼
►
I don't know.
01:17:52
◼
►
This episode is brought to you by Memberful.
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Memberful is the easiest way to sell memberships to your audience and it is used by the biggest
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creators on the web, including Relay FM.
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The upgrade membership program, Upgrade Plus, is powered by Memberful.
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It allows us to generate sustainable recurring income while also diversifying our revenue
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when we rebooted the membership program in 2020 we were able to take advantage of a bunch
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of other features that Member 4 had added like private podcasts and stuff like that.
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It is a platform that has continued to grow over time, they recently did a bunch to overhaul
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some of their stats off, it looks really great and we get loads of great information about
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how many people are signing up and what they're signing up for and all that kind of wonderful
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If you are already producing content and you are relying on advertising or some other means
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of income, Memaphor will make it really easy to diversify that with everything you need
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can help you monetise that passion. Get started today for free at memberful.com/upgrade, there's
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no credit card required. That's memberful.com/upgrade, go there right now and check it out, it could
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be the start of something exciting. Our thanks to memberful for their support of this show
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and relay FM and making it so easy for us to get everything set up for our membership
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It is time for some #AskUpgradeQuestions.
01:20:06
◼
►
The first comes from TVwonder today.
01:20:09
◼
►
This is not a TV-related question.
01:20:11
◼
►
But her name is TVwonder.
01:20:13
◼
►
You thought it was going to be TV-related, but it isn't.
01:20:15
◼
►
They would like to know, "How do you pronounce
01:20:19
◼
►
'apple' and then the S word that talks about the chips?"
01:20:23
◼
►
I don't want to say it yet, because I'm going to say it in two different ways.
01:20:26
◼
►
pronounce it apple silicon or apple silicon? And did this change since Apple
01:20:33
◼
►
released the M1 Max and people started pronouncing it like apple silicon like
01:20:39
◼
►
fun at the end rather than on at the end? They say they've always pronounced it
01:20:44
◼
►
like on at the end like apple silicon so it always sounds weird when anyone
01:20:49
◼
►
to pronounce? Is it like Apple does?
01:20:51
◼
►
- Okay, so I think that this is an alternate
01:20:56
◼
►
pronunciation that is pretty common,
01:21:00
◼
►
that people say silicon instead of silicon.
01:21:05
◼
►
What's funny is I hear it both ways,
01:21:08
◼
►
I've always heard it both ways.
01:21:09
◼
►
Silicon Valley doesn't seem strange.
01:21:11
◼
►
Silicon Valley actually doesn't seem strange.
01:21:13
◼
►
So I think there's a, it may even be a California-ism
01:21:17
◼
►
of shortening or changing the end of silicon to silicon.
01:21:22
◼
►
I always preferred silicon
01:21:26
◼
►
because that's the, to me, that feels like the pronunciation
01:21:32
◼
►
of the element silicon, but so many words in,
01:21:37
◼
►
I think, California English, you kinda shrink 'em down
01:21:43
◼
►
to nn at the end instead of on
01:21:45
◼
►
in pronouncing the vowel sound.
01:21:47
◼
►
You swallow that vowel sound.
01:21:49
◼
►
And I think, I'm sure that there's a linguist out there
01:21:53
◼
►
who could probably say exactly what this effect is,
01:21:56
◼
►
but I think it's pretty common.
01:21:58
◼
►
So I think it's pretty common,
01:22:00
◼
►
just California at least way of swallowing that vowel sound.
01:22:05
◼
►
However, once Apple starts referring to it
01:22:08
◼
►
as Apple Silicon pronounced that way
01:22:11
◼
►
in every single communication they make,
01:22:15
◼
►
it's kind of hard not to just go with it,
01:22:16
◼
►
especially since-- - You internalize it.
01:22:18
◼
►
Like that's what happened to me.
01:22:19
◼
►
- Especially since it's one of the pronunciations
01:22:21
◼
►
that I would consider fine, I don't care.
01:22:25
◼
►
- It's not like they called it Apple Silicon, you know?
01:22:28
◼
►
- Yeah, if they called it silicone,
01:22:29
◼
►
we would have a problem because just for the record,
01:22:31
◼
►
silicone, totally different thing.
01:22:34
◼
►
And people do that all the time.
01:22:35
◼
►
How many times have we-- - Oh, I used to do it
01:22:37
◼
►
in the beginning. - Computer nerds heard
01:22:38
◼
►
about Silicon Valley and it's like,
01:22:40
◼
►
that's LA that you're thinking of there,
01:22:42
◼
►
with Silicon Valley, this is the Silicon Valley,
01:22:44
◼
►
It's just, it's chips, chips, chips, chips, chips,
01:22:47
◼
►
and sand, I guess, sand, silicon, silicon.
01:22:51
◼
►
It's fine either way.
01:22:53
◼
►
So the answer is yes, it's sort of an Apple thing,
01:22:55
◼
►
but also sort of not.
01:22:57
◼
►
It's more like a Californianism
01:23:00
◼
►
and they've decided to standardize on,
01:23:02
◼
►
honestly, they also have decided to standardize
01:23:04
◼
►
on not capitalizing it.
01:23:05
◼
►
So it's capital A Apple, silicon, lowercase S,
01:23:09
◼
►
and that drives me nuts, like, ugh.
01:23:11
◼
►
But that's, I mean, I think it's right,
01:23:14
◼
►
but it's like such a brand name
01:23:16
◼
►
that it would be kind of easier
01:23:17
◼
►
if it was capital A, capital S,
01:23:19
◼
►
but it's not, it's just Apple Silicon.
01:23:22
◼
►
So you kind of go with it because why?
01:23:26
◼
►
Yeah, I mean like if that's how every single communicator
01:23:29
◼
►
from Apple refers to it and it's a not,
01:23:33
◼
►
you know, it's a variant, but not to my ears wrong,
01:23:36
◼
►
then I just am gonna go with it.
01:23:38
◼
►
But TV Wonder is not,
01:23:40
◼
►
which also sounds like Stevie Wonder,
01:23:41
◼
►
which I think is maybe what they're going for there.
01:23:44
◼
►
is not wrong to say it seems weird, 'cause, yeah, I mean,
01:23:48
◼
►
silicon is the standard pronunciation.
01:23:52
◼
►
What do you do in England?
01:23:53
◼
►
Do you call it like siliconium?
01:23:54
◼
►
- Oh, don't ask me, man.
01:23:56
◼
►
Don't ask me what people say in England.
01:23:57
◼
►
- Siliconium?
01:23:58
◼
►
- 'Cause everyone's just gonna get mad at me.
01:24:00
◼
►
- Siliconium, no, no, no.
01:24:01
◼
►
- You say things like an American.
01:24:02
◼
►
So like, I can't be trusted
01:24:04
◼
►
with any pronunciation of anything.
01:24:06
◼
►
- Oh, and they said that like an American.
01:24:09
◼
►
- Oh, you say things like an American, dude.
01:24:11
◼
►
- Dude, yeah.
01:24:12
◼
►
That's how British people sound, I think.
01:24:14
◼
►
That's what I'm saying.
01:24:15
◼
►
Howdy y'all, I'm from Somerset.
01:24:18
◼
►
I assume, I will assume I used to say silicon,
01:24:25
◼
►
like silicon, like on, right?
01:24:26
◼
►
Silicon. - Silicon.
01:24:27
◼
►
- Silicon, silicon.
01:24:28
◼
►
So now I can't do it right.
01:24:30
◼
►
But now I say silicon. - Silicon Valley.
01:24:31
◼
►
- Not like that, silicon, silicon.
01:24:34
◼
►
That's how I imagine it said here normally.
01:24:37
◼
►
But I say silicon now because Apple say it that way.
01:24:42
◼
►
And so we just internalize it.
01:24:44
◼
►
This is just a thing.
01:24:45
◼
►
It's the same as like when, you know,
01:24:48
◼
►
if Apple say a thing a certain way,
01:24:49
◼
►
everyone starts saying it.
01:24:50
◼
►
Like everyone said secret sauce for a long time
01:24:52
◼
►
because they said that they were doing that with AirPods.
01:24:55
◼
►
So everyone was just saying secret sauce,
01:24:56
◼
►
secret sauce all the time and that drove me mad.
01:24:58
◼
►
But I like the way silicon sounds more than silicon.
01:25:02
◼
►
I like, 'cause it's just easier to say silicon.
01:25:05
◼
►
It's easier to say.
01:25:06
◼
►
- That's why we swallow the vowel there
01:25:08
◼
►
is 'cause it is easier to say.
01:25:10
◼
►
- Absolutely.
01:25:12
◼
►
- This is some silly fun with silicon.
01:25:14
◼
►
Leon asks, "Do you think the rumored always on display
01:25:17
◼
►
on the iPhone feature on the upcoming models
01:25:21
◼
►
would be something you'd be able to turn off?
01:25:23
◼
►
I can't think of a single reason I'd need or want it."
01:25:26
◼
►
What I will say to you first, Leon,
01:25:27
◼
►
is don't worry about that yet.
01:25:29
◼
►
Let Apple tell you why you might want it, right?
01:25:32
◼
►
That's what you want first.
01:25:34
◼
►
- I will refer you to the Apple Watch,
01:25:35
◼
►
which has a setting in display settings called always on
01:25:39
◼
►
that you can turn on or off.
01:25:40
◼
►
I'm sure it'll be the same way.
01:25:42
◼
►
I can think of lots of reasons
01:25:44
◼
►
that I would need/want it, Leon,
01:25:47
◼
►
and maybe you will be surprised.
01:25:49
◼
►
But if not, I'm sure they'll let you turn it off.
01:25:51
◼
►
- Leon, do a deal with us, all right?
01:25:55
◼
►
- When Apple announce it,
01:25:56
◼
►
then say if you don't want it, let us know.
01:26:03
◼
►
Once Apple has shown you what it could do, let me know.
01:26:07
◼
►
You can tweet at us again, #AskUpgrade.
01:26:10
◼
►
Let us know then if you're interested.
01:26:12
◼
►
So what you're saying, Myke,
01:26:13
◼
►
is that Leon can't think of a single reason,
01:26:16
◼
►
but Apple probably can.
01:26:17
◼
►
I mean, it's Apple's job too, right?
01:26:20
◼
►
Uh-huh, yeah.
01:26:21
◼
►
Like, Leon, you might just not know why you want it yet,
01:26:23
◼
►
'cause you haven't, like,
01:26:25
◼
►
it hasn't come to mind. Isn't that Apple
01:26:26
◼
►
in a nutshell? Yeah.
01:26:27
◼
►
I don't know why I'd want this thing.
01:26:28
◼
►
That's their job. Apple says things,
01:26:29
◼
►
and you're like, "Oh, that's fine."
01:26:30
◼
►
I do want that. "Oh, I do."
01:26:31
◼
►
Exactly. "You're gonna take my money."
01:26:34
◼
►
Luke says, "With the torque of two sizes for the iPhone 14,
01:26:40
◼
►
What's the thinking on calling,
01:26:41
◼
►
what would be the thinking on calling the larger phone
01:26:45
◼
►
the max phone versus the plus phone?
01:26:47
◼
►
Is it just for unification?
01:26:49
◼
►
Has Apple ever had a non-pro larger phone called the max?
01:26:53
◼
►
Do you think the plus nomenclature will ever return?
01:26:58
◼
►
- There you go.
01:26:59
◼
►
- Do you wanna know why?
01:27:02
◼
►
- Services get plus.
01:27:02
◼
►
- I think it's confusing.
01:27:07
◼
►
I think you want parallel nomenclature.
01:27:09
◼
►
- It would be weird to have four different phone names.
01:27:12
◼
►
- Larger phone is max and plus then it's like,
01:27:14
◼
►
well plus isn't pro, plus isn't pro.
01:27:17
◼
►
Plus is actually the same as the non-plus,
01:27:19
◼
►
which is just the 13 or 14.
01:27:22
◼
►
It's the same, but so it's plus is only its size,
01:27:25
◼
►
but then there's the pro and the pro has more features
01:27:27
◼
►
and then the pro max, which like it's too much.
01:27:29
◼
►
It's too many things.
01:27:30
◼
►
I think 14, 14 max, 14 pro, 14 pro max
01:27:35
◼
►
makes the most sense.
01:27:37
◼
►
Pro max is a ridiculous name I know,
01:27:39
◼
►
but it's the name we have.
01:27:41
◼
►
And so calling it a Max, I think it's the right decision
01:27:44
◼
►
not to muddy the waters with yet another word
01:27:47
◼
►
that's used to describe literally the same thing,
01:27:50
◼
►
which is it has a larger screen as the Pro Max.
01:27:53
◼
►
- I think it will be cleaner.
01:27:55
◼
►
Like, you know, as you say, right?
01:27:57
◼
►
You've got 14, 14 Max, 14 Pro, 14 Pro Max.
01:28:01
◼
►
Like that's nice and clean.
01:28:04
◼
►
Just in the naming, you can understand
01:28:06
◼
►
what these products are,
01:28:07
◼
►
potentially how they might differ from each other.
01:28:11
◼
►
I think the plus name has gone away.
01:28:14
◼
►
Max is here to stay.
01:28:16
◼
►
- All right.
01:28:17
◼
►
- Ian asks, "Ever since my Mac LC2 in 1990,
01:28:22
◼
►
every desktop Mac I've owned costs $2,500.
01:28:27
◼
►
It's finally time to replace my 2015 27-inch iMac.
01:28:31
◼
►
What is the best desktop Mac I can get for $2,500 today?"
01:28:36
◼
►
I got a lot of respect for this game.
01:28:39
◼
►
- This is great.
01:28:40
◼
►
- I feel like I've played this game.
01:28:41
◼
►
I think at some point I said before I bought my iMac Pro
01:28:43
◼
►
that almost every computer I've ever bought was $2,500.
01:28:46
◼
►
So I'm right there with Ian.
01:28:48
◼
►
Okay, play the game, Myke, go for it.
01:28:50
◼
►
- Well, I looked it up today.
01:28:51
◼
►
Obviously you're going for a Mac studio, right?
01:28:56
◼
►
Ooh, you know what I didn't consider for Ian here?
01:29:00
◼
►
- The display.
01:29:01
◼
►
- The display.
01:29:02
◼
►
Ooh, now I don't feel so good about what I said
01:29:05
◼
►
'cause what I said was,
01:29:07
◼
►
Mac Studio with 32 gigabytes of RAM
01:29:10
◼
►
and a one terabyte SSD is 2199.
01:29:13
◼
►
But then if you wanna bump one of those specs up,
01:29:16
◼
►
the RAM on the SSD, 2600.
01:29:20
◼
►
now I don't know what to do
01:29:23
◼
►
because you're gonna need a display.
01:29:26
◼
►
Now you could just go with the 2199
01:29:29
◼
►
and I bet you could find a good display for,
01:29:31
◼
►
well a decent display for $400.
01:29:33
◼
►
It's not gonna be a studio display
01:29:35
◼
►
but you could get a display, you know?
01:29:38
◼
►
- Yeah, I think so the display is the question,
01:29:40
◼
►
does Ian have a display?
01:29:42
◼
►
Since he's got a 27 inch iMac, my guess is no.
01:29:48
◼
►
- So this is the challenge because what I think
01:29:52
◼
►
you should be able to buy and can't just yet
01:29:56
◼
►
is an iMac Pro that's about 27 inches
01:30:03
◼
►
that's got a M2 Pro chip in it for 2,500.
01:30:08
◼
►
That's what you should be able to buy.
01:30:13
◼
►
Right now, you can get a maxed out M1 iMac for only 2,000.
01:30:18
◼
►
Save yourself that money.
01:30:20
◼
►
You get a studio display.
01:30:22
◼
►
You could get a nice like a Mac studio
01:30:26
◼
►
and a display that you find somewhere on the street
01:30:30
◼
►
or on sale and attach that.
01:30:33
◼
►
Or otherwise you get a Mac mini and a studio display
01:30:37
◼
►
and then in a couple of years you replace it with something.
01:30:40
◼
►
Once you've got the display, right,
01:30:42
◼
►
then your computer upgrades can go back
01:30:45
◼
►
to being $2,500 a shot 'cause you can just keep the display.
01:30:48
◼
►
But it's a tricky one now 'cause yeah,
01:30:52
◼
►
it's either gonna be a Mac mini,
01:30:53
◼
►
and Ian specifically said desktop Mac
01:30:56
◼
►
and that limits it, right?
01:30:57
◼
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'cause you could get like a MacBook Air
01:31:00
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and a studio display, but that's not what Ian wants.
01:31:04
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- No, I have assumed that Ian is looking
01:31:06
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for a desktop computer here.
01:31:08
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Like that is my, I took that as an assumption
01:31:10
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and just remembered it.
01:31:11
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- But this is the, well, yeah,
01:31:13
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what's the best desktop Mac I can get is the question.
01:31:15
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So it's right there.
01:31:16
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So I think the answer is this is the hole
01:31:20
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in the desktop market where Apple either has an M1 iMac
01:31:25
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at 24 inches, or you have to buy a display and a Mac Studio.
01:31:30
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And that's where a 27-inch iMac would fit.
01:31:35
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And it's not there right now.
01:31:37
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You know, maybe next year, but not right now.
01:31:40
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It's not there.
01:31:41
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So you either have to commit to an external display
01:31:43
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and then a Mac Studio or a Mac Mini,
01:31:46
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or save yourself money and get the M1 iMac.
01:31:51
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Those are your choices.
01:31:52
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- If you would like to send in a question for us to answer,
01:31:55
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a future episode of Upgrade. You can tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use ?AskUpgrade
01:32:00
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in the RelayFM members Discord which you get access to. If you sign up to GetUpgradePlus.com
01:32:06
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and you're an UpgradePlus subscriber, thank you so much to everybody that has and also
01:32:10
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thank you to our sponsors of this week's episode, Memberful, Sourcegraph, Squarespace and Taxexpander.
01:32:15
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But as always, thank you for listening and we'll be back next week if you want to find
01:32:20
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this in the meantime go to sixcolors.com go to the incomparable.com and @jasonl
01:32:25
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that's where Jason is. Jason also hosts some shows here on relay FM like I do
01:32:29
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relay.fm/shows go find something new and add it to your podcast queue
01:32:33
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I am @imike, I am Y-A-K-E. Until next time say goodbye Jason Snow
01:32:38
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goodbye Myke Hurley
01:32:42
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