Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 427.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:15 ◼   ► Memberfall, and ClearMyMac X.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snow.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:22 ◼   ► How does it feel to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars

00:00:26 ◼   ► for St. Jude?

00:00:27 ◼   ► - Very good.

00:00:27 ◼   ► We actually just before we started the show today,

00:00:31 ◼   ► we closed our fundraising campaign.

00:00:33 ◼   ► A lot has happened in the last week

00:00:35 ◼   ► and we passed $706,000,

00:00:38 ◼   ► meaning that this year was the most money

00:00:40 ◼   ► we have ever raised in a year

00:00:41 ◼   ► for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Thank you so much to everybody that participated

00:00:46 ◼   ► in the campaign this year.

00:00:48 ◼   ► But I have a #snowtalk question for you.

00:00:50 ◼   ► - All right. - Comes from Tony.

00:00:51 ◼   ► And Tony wants to know, Jason,

00:00:52 ◼   ► have you watched "Welcome to Wrexham"?

00:00:55 ◼   ► - I assume that I already talked about this somewhere,

00:00:57 ◼   ► but maybe not here.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Yes, yes, it's great.

00:01:00 ◼   ► - We haven't spoken about it because I'm loving it.

00:01:03 ◼   ► And I would have remembered having this conversation

00:01:05 ◼   ► with you.

00:01:05 ◼   ► - That's true, we definitely haven't spoken about it.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Yeah, it's good.

00:01:08 ◼   ► In fact, I had a friend who is interested in soccer

00:01:10 ◼   ► who said, "I isn't really just like those guys."

00:01:13 ◼   ► I'm like, "It's not just those guys, right?"

00:01:14 ◼   ► It's also about the town.

00:01:18 ◼   ► All those fans who are so concerned.

00:01:20 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, these famous people

00:01:21 ◼   ► bought our soccer team.

00:01:23 ◼   ► Are they gonna ruin it?"

00:01:25 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:01:27 ◼   ► and how much it means to them, and that makes it, yeah.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm really enjoying it.

00:01:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, like my, I was talking to my brother about it.

00:01:35 ◼   ► My brother's a big football fan,

00:01:36 ◼   ► and he has been pretty resistant to the entire idea

00:01:41 ◼   ► of Rob McElhenney and Ryan Reynolds

00:01:43 ◼   ► buying this football club, because they're like,

00:01:45 ◼   ► "Oh, this is setting a bad precedent,"

00:01:46 ◼   ► and like that kind of idea.

00:01:48 ◼   ► And I just said to him, like, "Just watch it."

00:01:50 ◼   ► 'Cause I think the heart that they bring to this idea

00:01:55 ◼   ► is not something you would naturally have assumed,

00:01:57 ◼   ► but they genuinely seem to care

00:01:59 ◼   ► and seem to put a lot of effort and work in

00:02:02 ◼   ► to doing quote unquote the right thing.

00:02:05 ◼   ► And the show is just fantastic.

00:02:07 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:02:08 ◼   ► And as you say, like, yeah, it is a documentary

00:02:11 ◼   ► about two celebrities buying a football club,

00:02:14 ◼   ► but it's more than that.

00:02:15 ◼   ► And like some episodes, they're barely in it.

00:02:18 ◼   ► Like it's just following the kind of characters of the town

00:02:22 ◼   ► that they have established as interesting people

00:02:25 ◼   ► in Wrexham in Wales and understanding how ingrained it is.

00:02:30 ◼   ► It's really great.

00:02:31 ◼   ► So it's in Hulu in America, outside it's on Disney+.

00:02:35 ◼   ► They put it up the next day,

00:02:36 ◼   ► which I was really happy about 'cause genuinely,

00:02:39 ◼   ► genuinely I think that Reynolds and McElhenney

00:02:42 ◼   ► made a deal with Disney to make sure this was done

00:02:45 ◼   ► 'cause this is not consistent.

00:02:48 ◼   ► That show The Bear, right, that's on Hulu.

00:02:50 ◼   ► We haven't got it yet.

00:02:51 ◼   ► And it's like, at some point we're gonna get it.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Like a lot of these Hulu shows,

00:02:56 ◼   ► it's like at some point it will come to Disney Plus.

00:02:58 ◼   ► And my assumption is just, they were very aware

00:03:01 ◼   ► that this show needs to be

00:03:02 ◼   ► in the United Kingdom immediately, right?

00:03:05 ◼   ► You can't make this show about a Welsh football team

00:03:09 ◼   ► and then it just show up at some point, right?

00:03:12 ◼   ► Like, ah, you know, whatever.

00:03:15 ◼   ► - This is a little different in the sense

00:03:17 ◼   ► that it's an FX show.

00:03:18 ◼   ► So it's on cable and then it goes to Hulu.

00:03:22 ◼   ► And so they've obviously, yeah, they got the rights set up

00:03:26 ◼   ► so that they would be able to stream it immediately

00:03:29 ◼   ► in the UK and elsewhere, presumably on Disney+.

00:03:31 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a really well done show.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And I get your brothers like,

00:03:38 ◼   ► "Oh boy, like this is not great."

00:03:40 ◼   ► Like I get it, but watching "Welcome to Wrexham,"

00:03:43 ◼   ► it makes it, at least it makes it seem very much like

00:03:46 ◼   ► that was a team that was dying, right?

00:03:50 ◼   ► Like it was falling into decay

00:03:53 ◼   ► and would either be irrelevant or gone.

00:03:58 ◼   ► And so there is this, I think it's a fascinating question,

00:04:01 ◼   ► which is, well, if a couple of Hollywood types come in

00:04:06 ◼   ► and buy your team and say they wanna put money,

00:04:08 ◼   ► their money in it and make it better, is that good?

00:04:12 ◼   ► Because as in the episode I watched last night,

00:04:15 ◼   ► which is the episode where they actually finally come

00:04:17 ◼   ► to Rexham 'cause they're like it's episode eight

00:04:19 ◼   ► before they show up in Rexham.

00:04:20 ◼   ► - That's a great episode.

00:04:22 ◼   ► - They obviously care about not ruining it.

00:04:27 ◼   ► And yet a line that comes back time and again

00:04:32 ◼   ► is change is inevitable.

00:04:35 ◼   ► And this is, I think, fascinating on a much broader scale,

00:04:39 ◼   ► which is this argument, 'cause I've seen this in business

00:04:42 ◼   ► and stuff that I've done in my career,

00:04:43 ◼   ► like things I've reported on, things that I've done myself,

00:04:46 ◼   ► like one of the common things you get is,

00:04:50 ◼   ► why can't it just stay the way it is?

00:04:53 ◼   ► And the problem with that is,

00:04:56 ◼   ► it's like you're gonna make it change.

00:04:58 ◼   ► I wanna keep it the way it is.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And I understand that sentiment,

00:05:02 ◼   ► that's a very human sentiment.

00:05:04 ◼   ► But the truth is, things change, right?

00:05:07 ◼   ► Things, it's not a choice between the steady state

00:05:10 ◼   ► that will go on forever and change, right?

00:05:13 ◼   ► It's a choice between letting it change on its own

00:05:18 ◼   ► or doing something to change it in a different way.

00:05:21 ◼   ► And I think people get caught up in the,

00:05:23 ◼   ► like these guys are gonna come in here and ruin it.

00:05:25 ◼   ► And their point, which they're gently trying to get across

00:05:29 ◼   ► is it's gonna change regardless, right?

00:05:32 ◼   ► Like the future of this football club is not what it is today

00:05:37 ◼   ► or what it was five years ago.

00:05:39 ◼   ► Like it's headed in one direction or another,

00:05:42 ◼   ► and we get to choose a different direction for it.

00:05:44 ◼   ► But like, if you leave it alone,

00:05:46 ◼   ► and it's just sort of neglected,

00:05:47 ◼   ► like it had been for years, that also leads to change, right?

00:05:52 ◼   ► It is not in a steady state.

00:05:55 ◼   ► And I think that's really interesting on a larger picture

00:05:57 ◼   ► that like, it's not your choosing

00:05:59 ◼   ► between these guys coming in

00:06:01 ◼   ► and everything being fine without them, right?

00:06:03 ◼   ► You're choosing between these guys coming in

00:06:04 ◼   ► and doing question mark, who knows what,

00:06:06 ◼   ► and what happens if they don't come in?

00:06:09 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think something that they talk about a bunch is like a lot of the change

00:06:13 ◼   ► everyone will be happy with if the team's winning. Right? Like, make a bunch of change

00:06:18 ◼   ► and do whatever you need to do. But if it ends up resulting on like in Wrexham getting

00:06:24 ◼   ► promoted moving forward and moving through the football leagues, like that's the good

00:06:29 ◼   ► kind of change. Like do what's needed there. So yeah, it's really interesting show. I've,

00:06:34 ◼   ► I'm a big fan of those guys anyway, so I was really excited about it and I've loved it.

00:06:39 ◼   ► And it's been fascinating to see why they did this and why they're doing it.

00:06:44 ◼   ► It's really cool.

00:06:45 ◼   ► I like it.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Recommended.

00:06:47 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question for us to open an episode of Upgrade, just send

00:06:51 ◼   ► out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk, use question mark #snowtalk in the relay FM members

00:06:56 ◼   ► Discord.

00:06:57 ◼   ► This was some follow out, Jason.

00:06:59 ◼   ► I want to give a shout out to Shelley Brisbane.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Shelly was on an earlier episode of the show this year to give a state of accessibility

00:07:06 ◼   ► on Apple's platforms, one of our verticals in the verticals extravaganza.

00:07:11 ◼   ► Shelly has a show called Parallel on Relay FM that's been on a bit of a season break

00:07:16 ◼   ► and the show's back now.

00:07:18 ◼   ► And this episode that just published last week is focused on new updates to the web

00:07:23 ◼   ► content accessibility guidelines, which is a thing that I didn't even know existed.

00:07:28 ◼   ► I'm going to go out on a limb and say many of our listeners who may be web developers

00:07:33 ◼   ► maybe don't know that this exists, so go listen to this episode of Parallel if this is of

00:07:39 ◼   ► an importance to you in your day job.

00:07:41 ◼   ► Did you know that the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, the WCAG, existed?

00:07:46 ◼   ► I think I did, but I don't know what's in them.

00:07:49 ◼   ► Oh, look at you.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Oh, okay, well there you go.

00:07:52 ◼   ► There's a spectrum of understanding here.

00:07:54 ◼   ► You can know it exists, but if you don't know what's in it, maybe that's still part of the

00:07:57 ◼   ► problem.

00:07:58 ◼   ► this recent episode of Parallel. You can find out about that. Also if you enjoy

00:08:03 ◼   ► this show and you want more of it you should subscribe to Upgrade Plus. You'll

00:08:06 ◼   ► hear no ads and you'll get bonus content every week. This week Jason's told me

00:08:10 ◼   ► that he has thoughts about the book After Steve. My library hold came in.

00:08:15 ◼   ► Yay! This is a book that I love and have been talking a lot about over the last

00:08:20 ◼   ► few months while I was reading it and I am intrigued because Jason's told me he

00:08:24 ◼   ► has "thoughts" about it so maybe my heart's gonna get broken.

00:08:27 ◼   ► Friends, I did not love it.

00:08:31 ◼   ► Oh, okay. Well, if you want to hear what that's all about, go subscribe to Upgrade Plus at

00:08:36 ◼   ► GetUpgradePlus.com.

00:08:39 ◼   ► Let's do some follow-up. Jason, Amazon put their Yankees game on the Yes Network.

00:08:45 ◼   ► They did. They did. This is the Aaron Judge hitting home runs, people want to see it.

00:08:50 ◼   ► Amazon bought the rights to what previously had been broadcast TV actually in the New

00:08:55 ◼   ► York area.

00:08:57 ◼   ► And so if you were in the New York area, this is so strange, I think we covered this in

00:09:02 ◼   ► a previous episode, but just to be clear, if you're in the New York area, some of the

00:09:06 ◼   ► games are on Amazon Prime Video, but only in the New York area, which is wild.

00:09:12 ◼   ► They bought broadcast rights, essentially.

00:09:15 ◼   ► So in this case, as Aaron Judge has been hitting many home runs, they took their Amazon game

00:09:20 ◼   ► game and put it on the Yes Network, which is the Yankee-owned cable channel that also

00:09:29 ◼   ► is in that region, where most of the games are. So that was one of those sort of like,

00:09:35 ◼   ► "We want to see it and we don't want to look at Amazon," which is weird because if you're

00:09:37 ◼   ► a Yankee fan, like, you've had a dozen more games on Amazon this year. You've had the

00:09:43 ◼   ► whole season. I think this goes back to that idea that there are some people out there

00:09:46 ◼   ► who are just so resistant to streaming that they are going to refuse it even if it's like

00:09:51 ◼   ► their favorite team because this is not like, I find that very strange. Like what could

00:09:57 ◼   ► motivate you more than your favorite team putting 10 or 15 games a year on Amazon Prime

00:10:02 ◼   ► Video? What could motivate you more than that to figure that out? And yet people, I guess,

00:10:11 ◼   ► complained and Amazon just said, "Yeah, we'll put that game on the Yes Network if that's

00:10:15 ◼   ► - That's fine.

00:10:16 ◼   ► - But Amazon owns 15% of the Yes Network.

00:10:18 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:10:19 ◼   ► And also it's like, unlike Apple TV Plus,

00:10:23 ◼   ► Prime Video isn't free, so.

00:10:25 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:10:26 ◼   ► - Right?

00:10:26 ◼   ► - That is the big difference, right?

00:10:27 ◼   ► It is that Apple TV Plus isn't free, right?

00:10:28 ◼   ► But the baseball games, at least this year,

00:10:30 ◼   ► were free on Apple TV Plus.

00:10:33 ◼   ► So it's a different kind of thing.

00:10:34 ◼   ► But again, what this controversy says,

00:10:37 ◼   ► and I'll point out again, this is not free, it's cable TV.

00:10:42 ◼   ► You gotta pay for cable TV to see it.

00:10:44 ◼   ► So I think this plays right into the hands of the people who are the cable providers

00:10:49 ◼   ► and channels that have deals with the cable providers, including ultimately the money

00:10:53 ◼   ► flows to the baseball team, saying, you know, people are like, "Oh, we want it on cable."

00:10:58 ◼   ► It's like, okay, cable is a pay service that you can get baseball games on.

00:11:04 ◼   ► There are others, right?

00:11:06 ◼   ► Apple TV arguably—I know I said this last week, I'm going to say it again—Apple TV

00:11:10 ◼   ► arguably has a bigger addressable audience than cable because all you need is an internet

00:11:18 ◼   ► connection and a device, basically like a web browser, will do, and you, which again,

00:11:24 ◼   ► yes, you have to pay for the internet too, right? Like, but it, people with devices and

00:11:30 ◼   ► internet versus people who have paid for cable, I don't know, I think devices and internet

00:11:35 ◼   ► is probably a bigger number than people who pay for cable TV at this point, right? And

00:11:39 ◼   ► if not, it's probably in the ballpark of it.

00:11:42 ◼   ► And the only, so the only true free sports

00:11:47 ◼   ► is stuff that goes over broadcast.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And you know, nobody, I haven't seen anybody step up

00:11:52 ◼   ► and say, "Hey, everything should be on broadcast TV," right?

00:11:55 ◼   ► That ship has sailed.

00:11:56 ◼   ► So my point is, other ships are also sailing now

00:11:59 ◼   ► and they are streaming sports and that's just how it is.

00:12:03 ◼   ► - So tap to pay was a thing being rolled out for the iPhone.

00:12:07 ◼   ► I think you started with a version of iOS 16.

00:12:10 ◼   ► This is the idea of no longer needing a card reader

00:12:12 ◼   ► to take payments and there are a bunch of companies

00:12:14 ◼   ► jumping on board.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Square has now made it available with their platform.

00:12:19 ◼   ► So I think it was just a beta before,

00:12:21 ◼   ► but now it's available if you're a Square customer.

00:12:24 ◼   ► So if you have one of the little card readers or whatever,

00:12:26 ◼   ► you can now, if you have an iPhone that has an NFC chip in it

00:12:29 ◼   ► and is supported with that version of iOS,

00:12:32 ◼   ► you'll be able to take payments just from your device,

00:12:35 ◼   ► like device to card or device to device.

00:12:38 ◼   ► I think this is a pretty big deal,

00:12:41 ◼   ► especially for Square doing it.

00:12:42 ◼   ► I feel like they're maybe the,

00:12:44 ◼   ► or one of the market leaders in this technology.

00:12:47 ◼   ► And so now it's available if you are a Square customer.

00:12:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the idea here is that if you are,

00:12:54 ◼   ► like, I don't know, most of the,

00:12:55 ◼   ► during the pandemic especially,

00:12:56 ◼   ► most of the places at my local farmer's market now

00:13:00 ◼   ► are doing, you know, are taking cards and they were,

00:13:04 ◼   ► because of during the pandemic,

00:13:05 ◼   ► They're very much like,

00:13:07 ◼   ► we can put this little card reader out on the edge

00:13:09 ◼   ► and then you don't have to come close to us

00:13:10 ◼   ► and it's contactless and all of that.

00:13:12 ◼   ► But I also like the idea that even if you don't have

00:13:15 ◼   ► a terminal or a little extension or whatever,

00:13:17 ◼   ► maybe you're somebody who is,

00:13:20 ◼   ► I'm trying to come up with some examples,

00:13:22 ◼   ► but it's like anybody who does fee for service stuff

00:13:24 ◼   ► and they've got their phone with them

00:13:26 ◼   ► and they can say, just tap your card, right?

00:13:28 ◼   ► Instead of saying, I've got this square thing plugged in

00:13:31 ◼   ► and now here it is and let me run it and all of that.

00:13:34 ◼   ► 'cause I've seen that too.

00:13:36 ◼   ► This is way easier than that.

00:13:37 ◼   ► It's not maybe as nice as if you've got a setup

00:13:39 ◼   ► with a kiosk, a little thing at the end of your table

00:13:43 ◼   ► or whatever, but so convenient to be able to say

00:13:45 ◼   ► as a small business person to say, just tap to pay,

00:13:50 ◼   ► and it's done.

00:13:53 ◼   ► - I mean, so back in the day when I used to go

00:13:56 ◼   ► to the Atlanta Pen Show with Brad,

00:13:57 ◼   ► and he would have like a table and be selling products

00:14:00 ◼   ► from his company, Knock.

00:14:02 ◼   ► and he would have to leave his phone with me if he went away

00:14:07 ◼   ► because he only had one reader

00:14:09 ◼   ► and he didn't want to sign in with the whole app and everything.

00:14:12 ◼   ► So it was like a whole thing because you had to link them together.

00:14:15 ◼   ► But now in theory, everyone that is in a business

00:14:19 ◼   ► could sign into the app, like to the Square app,

00:14:22 ◼   ► and you could just use your own phones to make it work.

00:14:24 ◼   ► It feels like this is a little bit more flexible of a situation.

00:14:27 ◼   ► You'd see people like, "Have you got the reader? No.

00:14:30 ◼   ► Mary's got the reader. You have to go get the reader for Mary. It's like a whole thing.

00:14:33 ◼   ► I know also, um, this is, everybody outside of the US is gonna find this hilarious, but

00:14:38 ◼   ► it really happens in the US, which is the plumber, the electrician, or whatever, comes

00:14:44 ◼   ► to your house, and then they say, "Can you write me a check?"

00:14:50 ◼   ► Yeah, that's madness.

00:14:52 ◼   ► Well, it is. It is, and yet, like, what else are they supposed to do? Like, we'll send

00:14:59 ◼   ► you a bill? Yeah, we don't do that here. We don't have that. Wire transfer, that would

00:15:05 ◼   ► be like you'd just be burned at the stake for that. I'm sorry, you're like, "No, out!

00:15:09 ◼   ► Get out! I'm taking your house. All the plumbing is mine now."

00:15:12 ◼   ► Well, Venmo, I guess, right? That's kind of what I'm talking about when I say bank transfer.

00:15:17 ◼   ► That idea of a very simple person to person.

00:15:20 ◼   ► Okay. I will say that that is also, although it's more common than it used to be, that

00:15:25 ◼   ► has also struggled to gain acceptance with,

00:15:27 ◼   ► I would say, especially an older audience.

00:15:30 ◼   ► My point here is that I think that there's a case to be made

00:15:36 ◼   ► that what will finally banish the check,

00:15:39 ◼   ► please write me a check, says the plumber,

00:15:41 ◼   ► from our world might be them realizing

00:15:46 ◼   ► that they can just load an app on their phone

00:15:50 ◼   ► and now they can accept that credit card right there.

00:15:54 ◼   ► right? Because their phone is just in their pocket. They don't have that little dealy

00:15:58 ◼   ► and now they don't even need it, right? All they need to do is have, they can set up or

00:16:02 ◼   ► have someone set up for them perhaps if they don't, if they aren't comfortable with that

00:16:06 ◼   ► technology, you know? And I'm not saying all plumbers are afraid of technology. I'm saying

00:16:10 ◼   ► my plumber is afraid of technology. So this is the, this is the point. Maybe this will

00:16:15 ◼   ► help banish the, I'm optimistic about this because this feels like the kind of thing

00:16:19 ◼   ► that really will get the whole write me a check thing out of the US finally.

00:16:22 ◼   ► Jason, get your calendar ready. October 27th, Apple's Q4 earnings call.

00:16:29 ◼   ► My calendar is already ready, Myke. I am ready, and that, you know what it means? It also

00:16:35 ◼   ► means that on Halloween, the spookiest episode of Upgrade will feature spooky results! Ooh!

00:16:45 ◼   ► Maybe. They actually could be a fright.

00:16:48 ◼   ► They could be?

00:16:49 ◼   ► They could be a fright.

00:16:50 ◼   ► - Hmm, we'll see.

00:16:53 ◼   ► Or maybe there'll be a treat.

00:16:54 ◼   ► That'll be our, that's our thing.

00:16:56 ◼   ► That's gonna be our thing, right?

00:16:57 ◼   ► Apple results, trick or treat.

00:16:59 ◼   ► - Trick or treat.

00:17:00 ◼   ► Ooh, that's good.

00:17:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, get ready.

00:17:02 ◼   ► - No rumor roundup this week.

00:17:04 ◼   ► There wasn't a ton of compelling stuff.

00:17:06 ◼   ► I do have a rumor followup for you,

00:17:08 ◼   ► which is Mark Gorman in his power on newsletter

00:17:10 ◼   ► is dabbling down no October event.

00:17:13 ◼   ► You see?

00:17:15 ◼   ► - Izzy, Izzy, I wanna parse Mark's words here, if I might.

00:17:20 ◼   ► - I would love you to do that.

00:17:22 ◼   ► - He says, "These announcements may not come

00:17:26 ◼   ► in the form of another flashy media event."

00:17:29 ◼   ► - Oh, so he's hedging a bit more actually.

00:17:31 ◼   ► He's not- - May not.

00:17:33 ◼   ► May not. - He's hedging down.

00:17:35 ◼   ► - And flashy media event, right?

00:17:38 ◼   ► Which I think goes back to the conversation we had,

00:17:40 ◼   ► which is there's lots of ways to do product releases, right?

00:17:44 ◼   ► Like what's a flashy media event?

00:17:46 ◼   ► Is he saying they'll put out a press release

00:17:49 ◼   ► and not a video?

00:17:50 ◼   ► I mean, maybe, but I would say,

00:17:52 ◼   ► why wouldn't you do a video at this point, right?

00:17:56 ◼   ► Like, why wouldn't you do a video

00:17:57 ◼   ► if you have anything worth talking about?

00:17:59 ◼   ► And I would argue maybe the MacBook Pro

00:18:01 ◼   ► is worth talking about,

00:18:02 ◼   ► and new M2 processors are worth talking about.

00:18:05 ◼   ► Last year they did this, and it was what,

00:18:06 ◼   ► a sub hour video that they put out?

00:18:09 ◼   ► Like, why not do it that way?

00:18:12 ◼   ► And you don't have to invite the media somewhere

00:18:14 ◼   ► just because the last two events they've held

00:18:16 ◼   ► have invited the media.

00:18:17 ◼   ► You can absolutely do the product briefing thing

00:18:19 ◼   ► with members of the media to release this stuff and review it.

00:18:23 ◼   ► So I don't know what Mark's trying to say here, because he's hedging and he's also saying

00:18:28 ◼   ► it's a flashy media event, and, you know, is, again, is a 45-minute long video and some

00:18:34 ◼   ► briefings with press a media, a flashy media event or not?

00:18:40 ◼   ► So I think that I'm still gonna remain skeptical of this.

00:18:45 ◼   ► I think this is kind of Mark Gurman's,

00:18:48 ◼   ► you know, more of a take and less of a report,

00:18:51 ◼   ► and that's fine, but I have yet to see anything tangible

00:18:55 ◼   ► that suggests, you know, and I'm fascinated by this too,

00:18:57 ◼   ► right, because that's the argument inside Apple is like,

00:18:59 ◼   ► well, how do we roll these products out?

00:19:00 ◼   ► And I would say you got a new iPad,

00:19:03 ◼   ► you got new Mac laptops, the MacBook Pros

00:19:06 ◼   ► that are very popular and people care about,

00:19:08 ◼   ► you've got new chips to boast about, at least a little bit,

00:19:10 ◼   ► assuming that they are impressive

00:19:12 ◼   ► and you want to boast about them,

00:19:14 ◼   ► you got that Mac Pro thing hanging out there,

00:19:16 ◼   ► maybe do kind of pre-announce that too.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Like why would you not do a video?

00:19:21 ◼   ► Like what's the extra overhead?

00:19:23 ◼   ► I know there's extra overhead to make a video,

00:19:25 ◼   ► but like surely there's way more benefit

00:19:27 ◼   ► to telling people next week, tune in,

00:19:31 ◼   ► and then letting a whole lot of people

00:19:32 ◼   ► watch an hour long commercial,

00:19:34 ◼   ► than just putting out a press release

00:19:36 ◼   ► and relying entirely on the press

00:19:38 ◼   ► to mediate between you and your audience, right?

00:19:42 ◼   ► The beauty of the Apple video announcement

00:19:43 ◼   ► is, people tune in and watch it. Whereas if you do a press release, everything's coming

00:19:48 ◼   ► through reports and Apple doesn't get to control the story as much as if it has the video that

00:19:54 ◼   ► it produces itself. So I'm still skeptical. I want to believe that they're going to do

00:19:59 ◼   ► a video, but we'll see. And that'll be a fascinating discussion just about what they announced

00:20:03 ◼   ► and what they chose in terms of rolling it out.

00:20:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just, I don't know.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Like, I agree with you, like,

00:20:09 ◼   ► if they did all of those things, right,

00:20:11 ◼   ► that it could be, like, event-worthy.

00:20:14 ◼   ► But let's imagine if they didn't have the Mac Pro to show

00:20:17 ◼   ► or whatever, and it is just like,

00:20:19 ◼   ► hey, we have new M2 processors in our iPads,

00:20:23 ◼   ► and we have new M2 processors in our MacBooks.

00:20:26 ◼   ► It might not be really that exciting, I don't know.

00:20:30 ◼   ► - If it's literally nothing interesting,

00:20:34 ◼   ► It's an M2 MacBook or M2 iPad Pro

00:20:39 ◼   ► doesn't do anything interesting.

00:20:42 ◼   ► And M2s of the Mac mini and the MacBook Pro,

00:20:46 ◼   ► but they're otherwise not that interesting.

00:20:49 ◼   ► And if they either don't have anything interesting to say

00:20:52 ◼   ► about the higher end M2 chips,

00:20:54 ◼   ► or the truth is that the higher end M2 chips

00:20:58 ◼   ► aren't that impressive,

00:21:00 ◼   ► it's better to do that as a press release, right?

00:21:03 ◼   ► and just say, "We refreshed with the M2.

00:21:06 ◼   ► It's one more, yay!"

00:21:07 ◼   ► And then move on with their lives.

00:21:09 ◼   ► Absolutely, they could do that.

00:21:11 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:21:15 ◼   ► the all-in-one platform for building your brand

00:21:17 ◼   ► and growing your business online.

00:21:19 ◼   ► You'll be able to stand out with a beautiful website

00:21:22 ◼   ► so you can engage with your audience

00:21:23 ◼   ► and even sell anything, products, services,

00:21:26 ◼   ► the content that you create.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Squarespace has got you covered.

00:21:30 ◼   ► With Squarespace, you'll be able to use insights

00:21:33 ◼   ► to grow your business. If you've ever wondered where your site visitors are coming from,

00:21:36 ◼   ► where your sales are coming from, they let you do all of this. They can help you work

00:21:41 ◼   ► out which channels are the most effective for you. Everything is viewable. It can all

00:21:45 ◼   ► be analysed in Squarespace. Then when you have that data you can use this to improve

00:21:49 ◼   ► your website, build a marketing strategy or even find some top keywords that you want

00:21:54 ◼   ► to focus on for your most popular products and content. You will be able to stand out

00:21:59 ◼   ► in any inbox as well of a Squarespace email campaign. You can now encourage your visitors

00:22:06 ◼   ► to sign up as email subscribers to start them on the journey to becoming loyal customers.

00:22:11 ◼   ► Just start with an empty template and customise it by applying your brand ingredients like

00:22:15 ◼   ► site colours, logo and everything else. They even of course have analytics built in so

00:22:19 ◼   ► you can measure the impact of every send.

00:22:22 ◼   ► But Squarespace, they do it all. If you want to set up a blog, really easy to do. They

00:22:26 ◼   ► They have fantastic tools to share your stories, photos, videos and updates.

00:22:30 ◼   ► You can categorise, share and schedule your posts to make your content work for you.

00:22:34 ◼   ► I have a bunch of Squarespace websites, I've been using them for over 10 years.

00:22:37 ◼   ► I had to do some work on one of my sites a few days ago.

00:22:40 ◼   ► I logged in, I needed to add some content in, it was really easy.

00:22:44 ◼   ► I could just click some buttons, add the content, drag the blocks around because I wanted to

00:22:48 ◼   ► reorder things a little bit.

00:22:49 ◼   ► So simple.

00:22:50 ◼   ► This is the way that I have always wanted to build websites.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Squarespace makes it so easy for me to do it.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Go to squarespace.com/upgrade and you can sign up for a free trial with no credit card

00:23:00 ◼   ► required. Then when you're ready to launch use the offer code UPGRADE you'll save 10%

00:23:04 ◼   ► off your first purchase of a website or domain. That is squarespace.com/upgrade and when you

00:23:09 ◼   ► decide to sign up use the offer code UPGRADE to get 10% off your first purchase and show

00:23:13 ◼   ► your support for this show. Our thanks to Squarespace for their continued support of

00:23:17 ◼   ► this show and all of Relay FM.

00:23:20 ◼   ► So iOS 16.1 is going through the beta process at the moment.

00:23:25 ◼   ► I'm very keen for this for live activities,

00:23:30 ◼   ► like when that starts to become a thing.

00:23:33 ◼   ► There's nothing on that now,

00:23:34 ◼   ► but I'm hoping in the not too distant future

00:23:37 ◼   ► that we'll start to understand what that's gonna be like.

00:23:39 ◼   ► And like, I'm really keen for that.

00:23:41 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a whole different way

00:23:45 ◼   ► of using my new iPhone, right?

00:23:47 ◼   ► Pretty, pretty keen.

00:23:48 ◼   ► big missing piece of the whole Dynamic Island story

00:23:51 ◼   ► is gonna come into focus at some point here.

00:23:53 ◼   ► - That's part of iOS, right?

00:23:56 ◼   ► 16.1.

00:23:57 ◼   ► But also we have no version of iPadOS

00:24:00 ◼   ► in case you've not keep a score in the 16 number, right?

00:24:04 ◼   ► At the moment, iPadOS goes to 15.7.

00:24:07 ◼   ► And they delayed it seemingly because they wanted

00:24:10 ◼   ► to spend some more time working on stage manager,

00:24:13 ◼   ► which is still a pretty buggy.

00:24:16 ◼   ► But now as of iPadOS 16.1 beta 3, which came out late last week, Apple have enabled previous

00:24:24 ◼   ► iPad Pro models that do not have an M1 chip to be able to use Stage Manager.

00:24:30 ◼   ► So namely the 2018 and 2019 12 inch iPad Pro and the 11 inch iPad Pro.

00:24:37 ◼   ► Which I saw recently, the 11 inch iPad Pro is now the current one, is the longest version

00:24:46 ◼   ► of a product, sorry, is the longest life of any iPad from like the age of the current

00:24:54 ◼   ► model number.

00:24:55 ◼   ► I need to find this, I saw this as a headline.

00:24:57 ◼   ► You know, it's just one of those headlines, like, "Oh, I saw that piece of information

00:25:00 ◼   ► away for later on."

00:25:01 ◼   ► But I was like, "Man, they've been sitting on that thing for a while."

00:25:04 ◼   ► I don't understand what that means.

00:25:07 ◼   ► This is from MacRumors.

00:25:08 ◼   ► The 2021 11" iPad Pro has today become, this is last week, the longest lasting model of

00:25:14 ◼   ► its kind ever on sale.

00:25:18 ◼   ► As of today, the 2021 11" iPad Pro is 513 days old, making it one day older than the

00:25:24 ◼   ► previous longest-reigning smaller iPad Pro model, 2016's 9.7" iPad Pro.

00:25:29 ◼   ► So it's only if iPad Pros, that's probably not as exciting as a statistic, hey kids always

00:25:34 ◼   ► read the articles before you say them.

00:25:36 ◼   ► - What about the M1, I mean, wasn't it released

00:25:38 ◼   ► the same day as the M1?

00:25:40 ◼   ► They were both M1s, right?

00:25:42 ◼   ► The 11 and the 12.9.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Did they not, I'm confused by that.

00:25:47 ◼   ► - I don't know, man.

00:25:51 ◼   ► I'm just saying, I'm just regurgitating.

00:25:53 ◼   ► The 11 is shipped before the 12.9, says Zach.

00:25:57 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:25:57 ◼   ► - So it's not a huge difference,

00:25:59 ◼   ► but that was a pointless aside.

00:26:00 ◼   ► - Congratulations, you did it.

00:26:01 ◼   ► - That was a pointless aside, all right?

00:26:03 ◼   ► best cup of coffee in the world.

00:26:06 ◼   ► You did it.

00:26:07 ◼   ► - How, what is that from?

00:26:09 ◼   ► - Elf.

00:26:10 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:26:11 ◼   ► But what they have done, I mean, the big thing here

00:26:13 ◼   ► is they have enabled stage manager to work

00:26:15 ◼   ► on these three models of iPad Pro.

00:26:19 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:26:20 ◼   ► - Which was a complaint people had four months ago.

00:26:23 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Yes, this was the initial, after the announcement in June,

00:26:28 ◼   ► there was a lot of detective work that people did

00:26:31 ◼   ► because they were irate, 'cause they said,

00:26:32 ◼   ► "Wait a second, you're saying that the M1 enables,

00:26:35 ◼   ► the M1 and the RAM or something enables stage manager,

00:26:39 ◼   ► but this older system has the same thing,

00:26:42 ◼   ► and so why would you not?"

00:26:43 ◼   ► And like, there was a lot of like,

00:26:44 ◼   ► this doesn't really make sense.

00:26:45 ◼   ► And I think the thought at the time was,

00:26:47 ◼   ► Apple obviously decided to draw the line here.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Like they didn't wanna go back.

00:26:50 ◼   ► And I had heard that there were, you know,

00:26:52 ◼   ► the chance that there were struggles

00:26:54 ◼   ► 'cause they're doing the external display

00:26:55 ◼   ► and up to eight and all these things.

00:26:57 ◼   ► And like, somebody at Apple made the call of like,

00:27:00 ◼   ► "Look, let's just cut it at the M1."

00:27:02 ◼   ► people who don't have an M1, iPad Pro are like, "What are you doing?" We bought these

00:27:06 ◼   ► — you know, and the argument, which I think is a good one, is we bought these overpowered

00:27:11 ◼   ► pieces of hardware with the promise — and again, never buy hardware with the promise

00:27:15 ◼   ► of upgrades later, don't do it — but the idea that we all talked about at the time,

00:27:19 ◼   ► right, which is like the hardware had so far outpaced the software. So here finally comes

00:27:24 ◼   ► multi-window support, and they say, "No, no, no. Your hardware that was so advanced is

00:27:30 ◼   ► is now not advanced enough to do this feature.

00:27:33 ◼   ► And so interesting pivot that obviously,

00:27:35 ◼   ► ODA be a fly on the wall inside Apple for this,

00:27:38 ◼   ► interesting pivot here where they have now decided

00:27:42 ◼   ► to enable it on the older iPad Pro models

00:27:46 ◼   ► and simultaneously hold off on the release

00:27:52 ◼   ► of support for the external display on all iPads.

00:27:57 ◼   ► - So the non M1 models will not be able

00:28:00 ◼   ► to do external display support.

00:28:02 ◼   ► They'll only get to be able to use up to four apps

00:28:04 ◼   ► at a time on the iPad's display.

00:28:07 ◼   ► - On the screen itself and 16.1 has had external display

00:28:12 ◼   ► support for the M1 models turned back off.

00:28:17 ◼   ► - Coming later this year.

00:28:18 ◼   ► - 'Cause they are clearly focused on shipping Stage Manager

00:28:24 ◼   ► And so they've expanded the base

00:28:26 ◼   ► of the on-screen stage manager,

00:28:29 ◼   ► and they're now gonna try to fix the bugs

00:28:31 ◼   ► and ship that out.

00:28:32 ◼   ► So the good news is if you've got an iPad Pro

00:28:34 ◼   ► from 18 and 19, and you wanna use stage manager, you can.

00:28:39 ◼   ► The bad news, I guess, is for everybody,

00:28:42 ◼   ► external display stage manager is not gonna happen

00:28:45 ◼   ► for 16.1, it's gonna come later,

00:28:48 ◼   ► and that will still only be to M1.

00:28:52 ◼   ► which is, I'll just throw in there.

00:28:55 ◼   ► I think this is a little bit curious,

00:28:57 ◼   ► 'cause they talk about the eight at a time,

00:29:01 ◼   ► but what they don't talk about is another design decision

00:29:04 ◼   ► that they made that I don't like,

00:29:06 ◼   ► which is the inability to run an iPad on external display

00:29:11 ◼   ► with the screen turned off, right?

00:29:16 ◼   ► You have to have, you know how you can close a MacBook

00:29:21 ◼   ► and plug it into an external display,

00:29:23 ◼   ► and then it's only driving the one display.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Well, you can't do that with an iPad.

00:29:27 ◼   ► You have to have your iPad open somewhere

00:29:30 ◼   ► with the screen on, and that's a decision Apple made, right?

00:29:34 ◼   ► They made that decision to do it that way.

00:29:37 ◼   ► And I would argue that maybe that leads to the fact

00:29:41 ◼   ► that these other iPads can't support an external display

00:29:44 ◼   ► because it's always said in the context of,

00:29:47 ◼   ► oh, well, up to eight apps at once with an external display,

00:29:51 ◼   ► like four and four. But I wonder if at the beginning of this process they had

00:29:56 ◼   ► said, "Yes, let's do a screen off mode," if those older ones might have supported

00:30:01 ◼   ► an external display too. But they seem again to have come too far down this

00:30:05 ◼   ► path. I still have hope that maybe in iOS iPadOS 17 they'll do a proper kind of

00:30:10 ◼   ► lid closed iPad because I find it really distracting and extraneous to have the

00:30:16 ◼   ► iPad screen and my big screen on at the same time. But in any event, it is good news. I

00:30:24 ◼   ► will also say, sorry to be the bearer of negativity in this good moment, users of older iPad Pros,

00:30:31 ◼   ► but I think Stage Manager is actually better on an external display and is a little less

00:30:35 ◼   ► useful on an internal display, especially the smaller one. I'm not as down on Stage

00:30:41 ◼   ► manager as Federico Vittucci is, but it feels to me like it really works best

00:30:49 ◼   ► when you've got lots of screen space, like on an external display, because I

00:30:56 ◼   ► always find myself with two apps side-by-side in Windows in Stage Manager

00:31:01 ◼   ► thinking to myself, "How is this better than Split View?" Right? Like I'm using, I'm

00:31:06 ◼   ► I'm actually using more pixels on Chrome and backgrounds

00:31:10 ◼   ► and corners of windows and stuff.

00:31:13 ◼   ► And if all I really want is the two things side by side,

00:31:16 ◼   ► and that's not always what I want,

00:31:17 ◼   ► but often that's what I want,

00:31:19 ◼   ► that's not actually better than split view at all.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And in fact, if you turn off stage manager at that point,

00:31:24 ◼   ► they just go into split view.

00:31:26 ◼   ► So it's a weird feature.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Like I'm glad it exists.

00:31:29 ◼   ► I'm glad that external display support is going to exist

00:31:32 ◼   ► at some point here,

00:31:33 ◼   ► even though they pulled it from the betas.

00:31:35 ◼   ► I'm glad that they're supporting older systems,

00:31:37 ◼   ► but there is, and people can listen

00:31:40 ◼   ► to last week's episode of Connected

00:31:41 ◼   ► if they wanna hear some more of Federico talking about this

00:31:44 ◼   ► 'cause he spent the whole summer with it.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Like, it's buggy.

00:31:47 ◼   ► I think I'm not as down on its premises as he is,

00:31:51 ◼   ► but it's got weird bugs and the weird bugs keep coming

00:31:55 ◼   ► at a moment where you'd expect to see it settling down

00:31:58 ◼   ► and being shippable.

00:32:00 ◼   ► As he pointed out, like there's a weird bug

00:32:02 ◼   ► where if you click on a window,

00:32:05 ◼   ► then it can't hear your mouse clicks until,

00:32:10 ◼   ► the best part, my favorite part is,

00:32:11 ◼   ► until you move the mouse pointer, the pointer,

00:32:15 ◼   ► outside of the window's boundary,

00:32:17 ◼   ► and then move it back in, and then it'll hear your clicks.

00:32:20 ◼   ► You don't have to click outside.

00:32:21 ◼   ► You just need to move the pointer outside,

00:32:23 ◼   ► and then move it back in, and then you can click.

00:32:26 ◼   ► And it's like, well, wait a second.

00:32:27 ◼   ► It's almost October, now it is October,

00:32:30 ◼   ► and we're getting new bugs in this thing, it's troubling.

00:32:35 ◼   ► I think all of us have this kind of like

00:32:40 ◼   ► spider sense tingle happening where we're like,

00:32:42 ◼   ► hmm, this is not how this is supposed to go

00:32:46 ◼   ► in terms of shipping this product.

00:32:48 ◼   ► So, you know, I think the good news is

00:32:52 ◼   ► I think it ships turned off.

00:32:53 ◼   ► I agree with Federico.

00:32:54 ◼   ► It might be wise for them to not even tout this feature

00:32:57 ◼   ► when they roll it out and to have it like be there

00:32:59 ◼   ► as a secret feature you can turn on, but not promote it,

00:33:02 ◼   ► not suggest that anybody use it,

00:33:04 ◼   ► until they get it to the point where it's in better shape.

00:33:09 ◼   ► - I was talking about this on connectedly,

00:33:12 ◼   ► and like you should say, Federico was,

00:33:14 ◼   ► I don't know if it's right to say

00:33:18 ◼   ► he doesn't believe in the premise,

00:33:20 ◼   ► it's the current way that it works,

00:33:23 ◼   ► I think is a bigger issue for him,

00:33:24 ◼   ► where he feels like he can't even properly use it,

00:33:27 ◼   ► 'cause he's coming up against bugs constantly.

00:33:30 ◼   ► - No, but he would very obviously prefer a tiling system.

00:33:33 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:34 ◼   ► He wants, he would prefer that it be split view plus,

00:33:38 ◼   ► right?

00:33:38 ◼   ► Where, which I see the argument there.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I don't like tiling systems.

00:33:42 ◼   ► I don't like, I like, like on my Mac,

00:33:45 ◼   ► I don't have every window not overlapping

00:33:48 ◼   ► and to all the way out, spread out to the far corners.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:53 ◼   ► And the problem with the tiling system is

00:33:54 ◼   ► something's gotta be on the far edge

00:33:56 ◼   ► because that's how tiling works.

00:33:58 ◼   ► I don't actually like that.

00:34:00 ◼   ► I like freeform.

00:34:01 ◼   ► I get why some people like tiled windows.

00:34:04 ◼   ► There are lots of Mac utilities that do tiled windows.

00:34:06 ◼   ► But I will say that I do sort of see his point sometimes,

00:34:10 ◼   ► like I said, when I've got the two,

00:34:12 ◼   ► I've done a lot of work to get two windows side by side

00:34:15 ◼   ► in Stage Manager, and all I'm doing

00:34:17 ◼   ► is really replicating split view,

00:34:19 ◼   ► which I would just get if I turned Stage Manager off.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:34:22 ◼   ► But my feeling is, is that I'm not,

00:34:25 ◼   ► I don't know if they're putting the right efforts into the right places with Stage Manager.

00:34:30 ◼   ► Like I just, I'm not sure.

00:34:32 ◼   ► You know, like I was talking about this and I think Steve Trout and Smith was tweeting about like maybe,

00:34:36 ◼   ► you know, I was positing the question as if this took a lot of work from them to make it work on the non-M1 iPads.

00:34:43 ◼   ► I saw him saying something like they could just enable it.

00:34:46 ◼   ► I wonder if there was a lot of optimization work needed.

00:34:49 ◼   ► But all I feel like I can see is this is a feature which

00:34:53 ◼   ► should have evolved in a lot of really positive ways

00:34:56 ◼   ► over the beta period.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And there were some changes that have been good,

00:35:00 ◼   ► but it kind of feels like, at least on the iPad,

00:35:03 ◼   ► just the fundamental premise is a little flawed.

00:35:08 ◼   ► You can't freely move the windows around, right, still.

00:35:13 ◼   ► - That is a great point.

00:35:15 ◼   ► The idea that, all right, first off, they say,

00:35:19 ◼   ► okay, we're not gonna do tiling.

00:35:20 ◼   ► We're not gonna do super split view.

00:35:23 ◼   ► we're not gonna do that.

00:35:24 ◼   ► We're gonna do freeform windows and you can resize them

00:35:27 ◼   ► and you can drag them around on screen.

00:35:29 ◼   ► You're like, all right, all right, okay,

00:35:30 ◼   ► so more like the Mac, great.

00:35:31 ◼   ► And then they say, no, no, when we say freeform,

00:35:36 ◼   ► we don't mean it.

00:35:37 ◼   ► We mean certain sizes and certain places you can drag them.

00:35:41 ◼   ► - Freely form within a set level of forms.

00:35:45 ◼   ► That's what you can do.

00:35:46 ◼   ► - Well, it's like, well, what are we doing here then?

00:35:49 ◼   ► Like, why wouldn't you just do tiling at that point?

00:35:51 ◼   ► And over the summer, one of the things I've noticed is that they've been tweaking that

00:35:55 ◼   ► a little bit, where it's like slightly freer. "Guys, what are you doing? What is going on

00:36:03 ◼   ► here that you're..." It just seems weird. Are you going to the point where they're just

00:36:08 ◼   ► going to be totally freeform at some point? You're just going to check that box and be

00:36:11 ◼   ► like, "All right, go to town, everybody." It's this weird middle where they're like,

00:36:16 ◼   ► "We want you to have control, but not too much control."

00:36:20 ◼   ► And at that point, I don't know,

00:36:22 ◼   ► it either needs to be way smarter,

00:36:25 ◼   ► or it needs to just be freeform windows, right?

00:36:28 ◼   ► Just embrace that.

00:36:29 ◼   ► And I think that comes to the larger point,

00:36:31 ◼   ► which maybe you were getting at there a little bit too,

00:36:33 ◼   ► which is I'm not sure this is a feature

00:36:36 ◼   ► that sprung from a vision about what the end point was.

00:36:41 ◼   ► And this is my larger point.

00:36:45 ◼   ► when you talk about like you'd expect there to be more progress over the summer,

00:36:49 ◼   ► this is my larger point about stage manager, which is stage manager really feels

00:36:53 ◼   ► like we're watching what usually happens behind the scenes happen in public,

00:36:59 ◼   ► which is, it feels to me like they're still figuring it out.

00:37:04 ◼   ► And I don't mind that being done in public.

00:37:07 ◼   ► I think it's kind of great because we are all able to give them feedback about it.

00:37:11 ◼   ► But it is unusual for Apple because usually they go through all

00:37:15 ◼   ► of this on the inside, and then they spring something

00:37:19 ◼   ► where they're all kind of in alignment,

00:37:20 ◼   ► and they're like, "Yes, this is what we're gonna do."

00:37:22 ◼   ► And they spring that on as a WWDC.

00:37:25 ◼   ► And maybe they thought that's what it was, a WWDC,

00:37:28 ◼   ► but it became clear pretty rapidly that it wasn't,

00:37:31 ◼   ► and that there really wasn't kind of alignment,

00:37:34 ◼   ► and that the feedback was very strong.

00:37:35 ◼   ► And again, credit to them for listening to the feedback.

00:37:39 ◼   ► But here we are in this point now where it feels to me like,

00:37:42 ◼   ► On the one hand, I kind of want this feature.

00:37:45 ◼   ► On the other hand, this feature seems half-baked.

00:37:48 ◼   ► It really just seems like they need to spend,

00:37:52 ◼   ► not weeks, right, but months on adjusting it.

00:37:57 ◼   ► And that's my greatest fear about "Stage Manager,"

00:38:01 ◼   ► is that whatever they ship in 16.1,

00:38:05 ◼   ► they're gonna say, "Well, that's what we shipped,"

00:38:07 ◼   ► and they're gonna walk away from it for at least a year.

00:38:11 ◼   ► And I think it's not at the point now

00:38:14 ◼   ► where I would like them to spend the next year

00:38:17 ◼   ► in 16.2 and 0.3 and 0.4 and 0.5

00:38:22 ◼   ► working on stage manager.

00:38:23 ◼   ► Because if they ship something that's kind of,

00:38:27 ◼   ► you know, imperfect and then say,

00:38:30 ◼   ► "Well, now we're gonna go behind the curtain

00:38:32 ◼   ► and do the rest of our work behind the curtain,

00:38:33 ◼   ► see you in a year or two."

00:38:35 ◼   ► I think that's irresponsible.

00:38:37 ◼   ► 'Cause like I think it was in 16.1 Beta 2,

00:38:41 ◼   ► they added the ability that you could freely move

00:38:45 ◼   ► an app horizontal.

00:38:47 ◼   ► - But not vertically.

00:38:48 ◼   ► - But only if there was an app larger behind it.

00:38:52 ◼   ► - Behind it, yeah.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:38:54 ◼   ► - Why is that the...

00:38:56 ◼   ► I don't get it.

00:38:58 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:38:58 ◼   ► It's so arbitrary.

00:38:59 ◼   ► Well, and why, okay.

00:39:01 ◼   ► You know, on the iPhone, what Apple has told us is,

00:39:05 ◼   ► "Hey, we know you like lock screen images and wallpaper.

00:39:10 ◼   ► We're gonna create a whole system for that."

00:39:13 ◼   ► In stage manager, they're like,

00:39:14 ◼   ► "You know that wallpaper

00:39:15 ◼   ► that you very carefully picked for yourself?

00:39:17 ◼   ► We're gonna fuzz it in the background

00:39:19 ◼   ► so it's un-viewable

00:39:22 ◼   ► while you're using stage manager in the foreground."

00:39:25 ◼   ► Like, why?

00:39:27 ◼   ► Why would you do that? - 'Cause that makes it feel

00:39:28 ◼   ► like you're using a system on top of a system,

00:39:31 ◼   ► which shouldn't be how this feels.

00:39:33 ◼   ► I know that's what it is, the way they make you enable it, but I feel like it shouldn't

00:39:39 ◼   ► be like I'm enabling stage manager mode, it should just be more I choose to use my windows

00:39:45 ◼   ► this way.

00:39:48 ◼   ► I feel like that that blurring is kind of emblematic of an overall thing about stage

00:39:54 ◼   ► manager, where they're like, oh this is a mode.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Not like, hey we're rethinking the way that this is supposed to work.

00:40:01 ◼   ► - Correct me if I'm wrong,

00:40:02 ◼   ► it doesn't blow your background on macOS?

00:40:05 ◼   ► - No.

00:40:06 ◼   ► - Right.

00:40:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't, I mean, on macOS,

00:40:09 ◼   ► you can now actually choose to show the documents

00:40:11 ◼   ► in the Finder too.

00:40:12 ◼   ► So like, it's, on macOS, they've said,

00:40:16 ◼   ► "Oh yes, your backdrop is your backdrop."

00:40:18 ◼   ► And yet on iOS, they're like,

00:40:19 ◼   ► "No, no, when you're using Stage Manager,

00:40:21 ◼   ► "although we'll give you a hint of what's back

00:40:22 ◼   ► "on your backdrop that you selected yourself,

00:40:26 ◼   ► "you can't see it, it's not legible."

00:40:29 ◼   ► I'm like, I don't understand, like people like that.

00:40:31 ◼   ► Why would you do that?

00:40:32 ◼   ► And it's interesting that you mentioned the mode.

00:40:35 ◼   ► I do think, I mean, we'll see how this goes,

00:40:37 ◼   ► but like I have occasionally used Stage Manager

00:40:41 ◼   ► on the iPad with apps maximized.

00:40:45 ◼   ► And what I found is it kind of feels like

00:40:49 ◼   ► what they want the iPad ultimately to feel like,

00:40:54 ◼   ► which, 'cause you can use it with all apps maximized,

00:40:57 ◼   ► but Stage Manager turned on.

00:40:58 ◼   ► And all that really changes is that

00:41:01 ◼   ► the animations are different,

00:41:03 ◼   ► but otherwise it feels like the iPad, right?

00:41:06 ◼   ► 'Cause all of the windows are full screen,

00:41:09 ◼   ► or at least you could switch between ones

00:41:11 ◼   ► that are full screen and the ones that have two windows

00:41:13 ◼   ► floating and all of that, different stages.

00:41:14 ◼   ► And I think, yeah, this is almost a vision

00:41:17 ◼   ► of where the iPad is going,

00:41:18 ◼   ► which is everything's full screen by default,

00:41:20 ◼   ► stage manager is always on,

00:41:22 ◼   ► and then you can pop things out of full screen

00:41:25 ◼   ► and do stuff with them.

00:41:26 ◼   ► But what's interesting is, right, like,

00:41:28 ◼   ► that's kind of way in the background

00:41:30 ◼   ► because the work hasn't been done up in the foreground yet

00:41:35 ◼   ► to make it worth it.

00:41:36 ◼   ► And so instead Stage Manager remains a mode that is,

00:41:40 ◼   ► you know, I don't know, I'm fascinated by it

00:41:42 ◼   ► because I'm like Federico, one of those people

00:41:44 ◼   ► who has been asking for this kind of feature

00:41:46 ◼   ► for a long time now.

00:41:47 ◼   ► And what I don't feel like is that I've got a clear vision

00:41:51 ◼   ► of like Apple knows why all of these decisions

00:41:54 ◼   ► have been made.

00:41:55 ◼   ► it feels much more like, let's change this.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Are you happy now?

00:41:59 ◼   ► Let's change this.

00:42:01 ◼   ► Are you happy now?

00:42:02 ◼   ► And that's the, I mean, I appreciate listening to the users,

00:42:05 ◼   ► but I would also like a very clear and consistent vision

00:42:08 ◼   ► about why this feature exists

00:42:10 ◼   ► and how it's supposed to be used.

00:42:12 ◼   ► And the problem is that it's just kind of muddy right now.

00:42:15 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you in part

00:42:18 ◼   ► by our friends over at Memberful.

00:42:21 ◼   ► Memberful is the easiest way to sell memberships

00:42:23 ◼   ► your audience and is used by the biggest creators on the web to generate sustainable recurring

00:42:28 ◼   ► income while diversifying revenue streams. You may have heard us talk about Upgrade Plus,

00:42:33 ◼   ► we spoke about it earlier on in the episode. Memberful is the platform that we use to power

00:42:37 ◼   ► Upgrade Plus. They make it incredibly easy for us to generate the ability to deliver extra content

00:42:43 ◼   ► to our users whilst also generating extra revenue so we're able to diversify the income that we make

00:42:49 ◼   ► from upgrade.

00:42:51 ◼   ► If you're already producing content, maybe you're relying on advertising or some other

00:42:55 ◼   ► form of income, Memvifor makes it really easy to get a diversification of what you're doing

00:43:00 ◼   ► with everything you need to run a membership program of your own.

00:43:03 ◼   ► They have custom branding, gift subscriptions, Apple Pay, free trials, private podcasts and

00:43:08 ◼   ► tons more, while leaving you with full control and ownership of everything that relates to

00:43:13 ◼   ► your audience, your brand and your membership.

00:43:16 ◼   ► make it really easy to manage.

00:43:39 ◼   ► You can even send paid email newsletters directly through memberful.

00:43:43 ◼   ► you don't need to connect it to a third party email provider. You can also publish your

00:43:47 ◼   ► paid newsletter content to a memberful hosted members only website so people can easily

00:43:52 ◼   ► access a back catalogue of your issues. There's no additional fee if you're signed up for

00:43:56 ◼   ► memberful's pro or premium plans so you're going to save money compared to hooking up

00:44:01 ◼   ► with a popular hosted newsletter platform.

00:44:08 ◼   ► If you're a content creator, memberful can help you monetise your passion. Get started

00:44:11 ◼   ► for free at Membeful.com/upgrade, no credit card required. That's Membeful.com/upgrade,

00:44:18 ◼   ► go there now and check it out, it could be the start of something exciting. Our thanks

00:44:22 ◼   ► to Membeful for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:44:26 ◼   ► So one day last week Jason sent me a tweet and he said "We need to cover this on the

00:44:31 ◼   ► show, we need to talk about this." And it was a picture of Tim Cook and Eddie Q at Octoberfest

00:44:39 ◼   ► in Munich, right? - Yep.

00:44:41 ◼   ► - And we were like, oh yeah, that's like a funny thought,

00:44:44 ◼   ► oh, it's like an interesting thing, why are they there,

00:44:46 ◼   ► why are they doing this?

00:44:48 ◼   ► And we were like, oh, we should talk about

00:44:51 ◼   ► the wild European tour that Tim Cook

00:44:54 ◼   ► seems to be on right now.

00:44:55 ◼   ► So today, I sat down and went through Tim's tweets

00:45:00 ◼   ► and have-- - Oh, excellent.

00:45:02 ◼   ► - And I'm now going to give you a blow-by-blow

00:45:05 ◼   ► of everything Tim Cook has been doing over the last week

00:45:08 ◼   ► based upon his Twitter account, right?

00:45:11 ◼   ► - It is amazing.

00:45:12 ◼   ► I should say he started in New York,

00:45:13 ◼   ► so he was already flying east.

00:45:15 ◼   ► He went to Apple 5th Avenue,

00:45:17 ◼   ► Apple Upper West Side and Apple Upper East Side.

00:45:21 ◼   ► - He was just making his way.

00:45:23 ◼   ► He didn't wanna do-- - He's just getting started.

00:45:24 ◼   ► - Tim doesn't wanna do a 12-hour flight, right?

00:45:26 ◼   ► So he's gonna do like a five-hour flight

00:45:28 ◼   ► and then a six-hour flight or whatever.

00:45:30 ◼   ► You know, he's gonna break it up.

00:45:31 ◼   ► He's a big, powerful executive.

00:45:33 ◼   ► All right, so begins in London with some store visits.

00:45:38 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:45:39 ◼   ► - This is the second time that I've decided

00:45:40 ◼   ► not to go to an Apple store on a day

00:45:43 ◼   ► and then Tim Cook has appeared in that Apple store

00:45:45 ◼   ► later on that day.

00:45:47 ◼   ► I did have that time where I was in the store

00:45:49 ◼   ► with Johnny Ive though,

00:45:50 ◼   ► so that would do for me more than enough.

00:45:52 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't think I could do

00:45:54 ◼   ► the whole selfie thing anyway.

00:45:55 ◼   ► I don't think I would be able to pluck up the courage.

00:45:57 ◼   ► - And it's a zoo.

00:45:58 ◼   ► It's a zoo.

00:45:59 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:46:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just couldn't, I wouldn't be able to do that.

00:46:02 ◼   ► I would be way too embarrassed

00:46:04 ◼   ► and I also don't wanna try and muscle my way

00:46:06 ◼   ► in the swarm of people, right?

00:46:09 ◼   ► He then announced a new partnership

00:46:13 ◼   ► with the Southbank Center in London,

00:46:16 ◼   ► as part of their racial equity and justice initiative.

00:46:18 ◼   ► So spreading it out from outside of the US,

00:46:21 ◼   ► it's then now gone.

00:46:23 ◼   ► - Tweeting another picture of him in London.

00:46:25 ◼   ► - Then he showed off the first images

00:46:28 ◼   ► of the new London campus built inside

00:46:30 ◼   ► of Battersea Power Station, which looks stunning.

00:46:34 ◼   ► - It does.

00:46:35 ◼   ► looks so beautiful.

00:46:37 ◼   ► I hope I would get to see that at some point in my life,

00:46:40 ◼   ► but I don't know.

00:46:41 ◼   ► Seems like, actually, weirdly, I feel like more likely

00:46:45 ◼   ► for me to see the inside of Apple Park

00:46:49 ◼   ► than whatever they're gonna call the Apple London office.

00:46:53 ◼   ► - I am sure that there's somebody who listens

00:46:55 ◼   ► who's gonna end up working at the Apple office

00:46:58 ◼   ► at Battersea and they're gonna--

00:47:00 ◼   ► - They're not gonna let me in.

00:47:02 ◼   ► - They're gonna let you in.

00:47:03 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:47:04 ◼   ► I don't know, we'll see.

00:47:06 ◼   ► I might have to do a canary in the coal mine

00:47:09 ◼   ► kind of thing there, right?

00:47:10 ◼   ► 'Cause maybe I wouldn't be able to say I was in,

00:47:12 ◼   ► so we can come back on it later on.

00:47:15 ◼   ► But the images are beautiful.

00:47:16 ◼   ► There was then a, I think really weird,

00:47:18 ◼   ► Ted Lasso photo shoot,

00:47:20 ◼   ► where they do like a staged image of them

00:47:22 ◼   ► in like the executive box.

00:47:24 ◼   ► - Let's break it down.

00:47:25 ◼   ► So the tweet is, "Go AFC Richmond."

00:47:28 ◼   ► In this panel, we have actors from Ted Lasso

00:47:32 ◼   ► and people from Apple.

00:47:34 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:35 ◼   ► - So like Lisa Jackson is there with Tim and-

00:47:39 ◼   ► - Deidra, Brian's in that image I think.

00:47:42 ◼   ► - Yep, she's there.

00:47:45 ◼   ► And I think there's an Apple PR person there too.

00:47:48 ◼   ► And then also we have one, two, three, four, five,

00:47:52 ◼   ► five members of the Ted Lasso team,

00:47:57 ◼   ► including Jason Sudeikis is right behind Tim Cook.

00:48:01 ◼   ► But I wanna focus on the right side of this image.

00:48:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:48:06 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:48:06 ◼   ► - Where Hannah Waddingham is pumping fists and shouting.

00:48:11 ◼   ► And next to her, Eddie Q is pointing

00:48:17 ◼   ► with his finger and shouting.

00:48:20 ◼   ► And I just wanna say,

00:48:22 ◼   ► like I saw some people on the internet are like,

00:48:24 ◼   ► you know, okay, well you can tell who the actors are

00:48:26 ◼   ► and who the not actors are.

00:48:27 ◼   ► - You really can, like you really can't,

00:48:29 ◼   ► except for Eddie Q, but you really can, right?

00:48:31 ◼   ► - Except, friends, for Hannah Wantingham and Eddie Q,

00:48:36 ◼   ► who are sharing the exact same energy.

00:48:42 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:48:43 ◼   ► - Well, but this is the thing.

00:48:44 ◼   ► I feel like Hannah Wantingham is doing,

00:48:47 ◼   ► I think, the best job of trying to portray

00:48:51 ◼   ► what should be portrayed in this moment,

00:48:53 ◼   ► which is like they're supposed to have scored.

00:48:55 ◼   ► But Eddie Q, similar energy that he's bringing

00:48:58 ◼   ► to the whole situation.

00:49:00 ◼   ► I can also do that.

00:49:01 ◼   ► - Yes. - Yeah.

00:49:02 ◼   ► - Tim Cook has no acting ability.

00:49:04 ◼   ► I think we've seen this in a few different ways.

00:49:06 ◼   ► - Hooray! - I don't think it's his thing.

00:49:08 ◼   ► And look, this isn't a criticism.

00:49:10 ◼   ► He's not trying to be an actor,

00:49:12 ◼   ► but at the same time, I don't know why they decided

00:49:15 ◼   ► to do this.

00:49:16 ◼   ► Like, there's so many other ways they could have done this.

00:49:18 ◼   ► - 'Cause obviously there's a photographer down below saying,

00:49:20 ◼   ► "All right, we're gonna score a goal.

00:49:21 ◼   ► "Goal, yay!

00:49:22 ◼   ► "Click, click, click, click, click."

00:49:23 ◼   ► Right?

00:49:24 ◼   ► That's what they're doing there.

00:49:25 ◼   ► - Why couldn't they have just had a picture

00:49:26 ◼   ► of them all together, you know?

00:49:28 ◼   ► It's also like there's so many things that I'm intrigued about this like why did they do this?

00:49:33 ◼   ► This is like breaking down a Renaissance painting isn't it? Like what is this about?

00:49:37 ◼   ► What like I mean I have other questions of like why is Deirdre O'Brien and Lisa Jackson there like but not all the time

00:49:43 ◼   ► Why is it I mean I think I can kind of guess why Eddy Cue is there right?

00:49:47 ◼   ► Yes right

00:49:48 ◼   ► But like I but then it's like why then is like Eddy Cue in another image but nobody it's like all these things I don't understand

00:49:55 ◼   ► But the bigger thing is like what is going on with Ted Lasso, right?

00:50:00 ◼   ► Like this is the thing that's being spoken about like it's late

00:50:05 ◼   ► potentially over budget like and like

00:50:08 ◼   ► Why Tim Cook and Eddie Q went to go meet with Jason Sudeikis and like right like what's going on here?

00:50:14 ◼   ► You know, or is it just like a meet-and-greet but maybe they had a little conversation

00:50:19 ◼   ► I think well, I think they were they were they're still in London shooting and they're planning this thing

00:50:23 ◼   ► So that it became a you know, you're gonna come and you know, we're gonna we're gonna do some stuff with Tim and Eddie

00:50:28 ◼   ► yeah, it's

00:50:31 ◼   ► It's something anyway, I just I love that I got more I have more to say about eddy-q. Yeah

00:50:37 ◼   ► I'm just gonna leave it there for now

00:50:39 ◼   ► When we get to the later hosting I have more to say about eddy-q, but just eddy-q Hannah waddingham. They are

00:50:45 ◼   ► Feeling the same vibe in that shot. I love it. So we're still in London at this point

00:50:52 ◼   ► Tim meets some female founders,

00:50:55 ◼   ► as part of a founder's group in London.

00:50:57 ◼   ► He visits with musicians at Apple's Platoon Studios.

00:51:02 ◼   ► And I was like, "What is that?"

00:51:04 ◼   ► I Googled it.

00:51:05 ◼   ► They bought a company in 2018, 2019 called Platoon Studios.

00:51:09 ◼   ► And it's about music creation and distribution.

00:51:12 ◼   ► Seemed like maybe they just wanted to have some studios.

00:51:15 ◼   ► - And there's Nandi Bushell,

00:51:18 ◼   ► who people might know from, she's the drummer,

00:51:20 ◼   ► who did those YouTube videos with Dave Grohl.

00:51:22 ◼   ► So there's a picture of Tim Cook and Lisa Jackson

00:51:27 ◼   ► with her at the drum kit.

00:51:28 ◼   ► - We then go off to Berlin.

00:51:32 ◼   ► - Off to, yes, to Berlin.

00:51:34 ◼   ► - For some store visits at first.

00:51:36 ◼   ► It always starts with store visits.

00:51:38 ◼   ► I wonder if the retail staff know this is going to happen.

00:51:44 ◼   ► I bet like the manager knows, right?

00:51:47 ◼   ► - I think everybody knows.

00:51:49 ◼   ► - You reckon everybody knows?

00:51:50 ◼   ► - I think everybody knows.

00:51:52 ◼   ► It's like, Tim's gonna be here on this day.

00:51:53 ◼   ► They're like, you can't be here.

00:51:55 ◼   ► Like not you, Gunter, no.

00:51:59 ◼   ► - Oh, like, or maybe just like all of a sudden,

00:52:02 ◼   ► for some reason, you're told like,

00:52:04 ◼   ► don't worry about coming to work today.

00:52:05 ◼   ► Why?

00:52:06 ◼   ► Don't worry, you're still paid, but just don't come in.

00:52:08 ◼   ► - Don't come in.

00:52:10 ◼   ► - Just don't come in.

00:52:11 ◼   ► Then a beer with Eddie Q at Oktoberfest.

00:52:14 ◼   ► - Okay, yes.

00:52:16 ◼   ► And a tweet, nice tweet.

00:52:17 ◼   ► (speaking German)

00:52:20 ◼   ► So happy to be back in Oktoberfest post.

00:52:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:52:27 ◼   ► All right, they got the giant beers.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Tim and Eddie on the left side.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Eddie's got the lederhosen on.

00:52:35 ◼   ► Tim's got his khakis on.

00:52:39 ◼   ► This is Tim.

00:52:40 ◼   ► - Yes, this is the great part, right?

00:52:42 ◼   ► Like everybody else is fully decked out.

00:52:45 ◼   ► He has decided, Lederhosen, not for me, right?

00:52:49 ◼   ► But he's just got, you should say,

00:52:51 ◼   ► some regular jackets on.

00:52:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, he's just decided, he's put the uniform on

00:52:57 ◼   ► on the top, but on the bottom, he's like,

00:52:59 ◼   ► "I'm not wearing that, I'm just gonna wear my khakis."

00:53:01 ◼   ► No one will notice.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Well, we noticed him, I see you.

00:53:03 ◼   ► - It gets cold. - They got their beers.

00:53:04 ◼   ► - I've done it.

00:53:05 ◼   ► A couple of years ago. - Yeah, sure.

00:53:07 ◼   ► - I think it was 2019, - It's October.

00:53:09 ◼   ► - Octoberfest. - Ish.

00:53:10 ◼   ► - I did the whole thing.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Well, I didn't get the jacket,

00:53:13 ◼   ► but I had the whole Lederhosen thing,

00:53:14 ◼   ► and I had a shirt and all that,

00:53:16 ◼   ► and I was ready to go and it was freezing.

00:53:17 ◼   ► But I had the long socks, which you also do.

00:53:19 ◼   ► So really it's just the knees that get cold.

00:53:22 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:53:23 ◼   ► I just want to say again, Eddie Q.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Like Tim's got his smile of like smile for the camera, Tim.

00:53:31 ◼   ► The people next to him are looking off away from the camera,

00:53:34 ◼   ► as is Eddie Q.

00:53:35 ◼   ► I think that's interesting that Tim is super locked in

00:53:38 ◼   ► to the camera, but there's somebody to the left

00:53:41 ◼   ► of the photographer who clearly is also taking a picture.

00:53:44 ◼   ► Well, I think there's a bunch of pictures and the one that Tim chose to publish is the one where he's looking at the camera, right?

00:53:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:50 ◼   ► Tim doesn't care if Eddie Q's looking.

00:53:53 ◼   ► But let me boil this down.

00:53:55 ◼   ► Look at Eddie Q.

00:53:57 ◼   ► Eddie Q is never not having fun, isn't he?

00:54:00 ◼   ► Like, Eddie is having a good time, and I don't know if Eddie drank that whole beer,

00:54:05 ◼   ► but I'm gonna wager that Eddie drank more of it than Tim did.

00:54:09 ◼   ► Those beers?

00:54:10 ◼   ► Hard to hold.

00:54:10 ◼   ► Huge glasses, really heavy.

00:54:12 ◼   ► Huge, very heavy.

00:54:13 ◼   ► Oh no, I get it.

00:54:14 ◼   ► I get it, but like, I don't know,

00:54:17 ◼   ► Eddie Q, he's having a good time.

00:54:19 ◼   ► That's all I'm saying.

00:54:20 ◼   ► I love Eddie's energy on this trip in these photos.

00:54:23 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:54:23 ◼   ► - I just don't understand how this came to be.

00:54:27 ◼   ► I don't know why this came to be.

00:54:28 ◼   ► And also, who are those other people?

00:54:30 ◼   ► Who are they?

00:54:31 ◼   ► Do you know who they are? - I don't know.

00:54:32 ◼   ► - Does anybody know who they are?

00:54:34 ◼   ► Like, they must be important, right?

00:54:36 ◼   ► And like, maybe someone's gonna tell me like,

00:54:38 ◼   ► "Hey, Myke, that's the mayor of like Munich."

00:54:41 ◼   ► - Of Munich, yeah. - You know what I mean?

00:54:42 ◼   ► It's like, okay, but I don't know this.

00:54:45 ◼   ► And Tim has not made it a thing.

00:54:46 ◼   ► - Marshall of Bavaria, I don't know.

00:54:49 ◼   ► - He's not mentioned who they are.

00:54:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, she's the Marshall of Bavaria

00:54:53 ◼   ► and he is the mayor of Munich, let's say.

00:54:56 ◼   ► - Okay, we'll go with that, I like that.

00:54:59 ◼   ► - Tim is having a good time.

00:55:00 ◼   ► Myke, I'm just gonna make a proposal now.

00:55:04 ◼   ► We may, this may become so legendary

00:55:06 ◼   ► that we may have to follow in Tim's and Eddie's shoes.

00:55:09 ◼   ► We may have to recreate this ourselves.

00:55:11 ◼   ► I would 100% do this.

00:55:14 ◼   ► - I'll fly to London, we'll go to various Apple stores,

00:55:18 ◼   ► and then yeah, off to Oktoberfest,

00:55:20 ◼   ► where you will put on the lederhosen

00:55:23 ◼   ► and I will wear khakis.

00:55:25 ◼   ► - I feel like, I mean, I don't know Tim Cook personally,

00:55:29 ◼   ► and like, I learned some information about him

00:55:33 ◼   ► from the After Steve book potentially,

00:55:34 ◼   ► we'll talk about that in Upgrade Plus,

00:55:36 ◼   ► go to getoctoprefus.com.

00:55:38 ◼   ► This doesn't necessarily feel like his vibe.

00:55:42 ◼   ► Like I don't really know, I can't,

00:55:44 ◼   ► I'm just like fascinated, why is he there?

00:55:47 ◼   ► - So the guy next to him, we've just gotten this in

00:55:50 ◼   ► from our experts in the Discord,

00:55:53 ◼   ► including a friend of the show, Saskia.

00:55:57 ◼   ► He's a German TV personality, Kai Flama.

00:56:01 ◼   ► - Well, that's only made it worse for me, right?

00:56:05 ◼   ► Because that doesn't make any sense.

00:56:06 ◼   ► Were they doing an interview?

00:56:07 ◼   ► - He's literally a game show host, game show host.

00:56:11 ◼   ► - Oh, why then?

00:56:13 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:56:16 ◼   ► - All right, well, that's only deepened

00:56:18 ◼   ► the curiosity for me.

00:56:20 ◼   ► Do they know each other?

00:56:23 ◼   ► Are they trying to like do some German TV content?

00:56:26 ◼   ► - Maybe so, maybe that's it.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Maybe there's a segment where he--

00:56:29 ◼   ► - Maybe that's why Eddie's there?

00:56:31 ◼   ► - It's we took them, no, I was thinking maybe it's we took,

00:56:34 ◼   ► He's doing a TV bit where it's like,

00:56:37 ◼   ► Tim Cook visited Oktoberfest

00:56:40 ◼   ► and we went along with him or something.

00:56:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe it's like a little interview kind of thing.

00:56:45 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:56:46 ◼   ► - Off the next day, presumably in the morning.

00:56:51 ◼   ► So Eddie's not there 'cause he was sleeping it off

00:56:54 ◼   ► to an anechoic chamber where I believe a new member

00:56:59 ◼   ► of the road trip is revealed.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Because I think that's Johnny Srouji.

00:57:06 ◼   ► - That is Johnny Srouji.

00:57:07 ◼   ► - So whether he was there all along and said,

00:57:10 ◼   ► don't take pictures. - This is fascinating.

00:57:11 ◼   ► Did they just come and go?

00:57:13 ◼   ► - I will catch up with you in Munich.

00:57:15 ◼   ► Well, yeah, I'll catch up with you in Munich, Tim.

00:57:18 ◼   ► And he's bright eyed and bushy tailed and Tim's like,

00:57:20 ◼   ► look, I was at Oktoberfest yesterday.

00:57:24 ◼   ► - If you ever had beers of Eddie,

00:57:26 ◼   ► 'cause like I have beers of Eddie, right?

00:57:27 ◼   ► You know what that means. - I held a beer.

00:57:29 ◼   ► Well, yeah, so they're in an anechoic chamber,

00:57:31 ◼   ► which I've been in in Cupertino actually,

00:57:33 ◼   ► during Antennagate, which was really fun.

00:57:35 ◼   ► It's the kind of place where you step into it.

00:57:37 ◼   ► You don't realize that there's like noises and echoes

00:57:40 ◼   ► and things everywhere in your life

00:57:42 ◼   ► until you step into an anechoic chamber

00:57:44 ◼   ► and it's as if you have lost your hearing

00:57:47 ◼   ► because suddenly it is creepily silent.

00:57:49 ◼   ► - Maybe Tim had a hangover and could only exist

00:57:53 ◼   ► inside of an anechoic chamber that day.

00:57:55 ◼   ► - It's the only, this is where Eddie slept last night.

00:57:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:02 ◼   ► - Oh, it's amazing.

00:58:03 ◼   ► All right.

00:58:04 ◼   ► - All right, so this is some cellular testing

00:58:07 ◼   ► they were doing there.

00:58:07 ◼   ► He then went on to meet some Munich-based photographers.

00:58:12 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:58:12 ◼   ► - Then did a meet and greet at FC Bayern Munich,

00:58:17 ◼   ► where they gave him a replica shirt.

00:58:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, they had the surfing, the urban surfing, right?

00:58:23 ◼   ► Like that was that part, which is interesting,

00:58:26 ◼   ► people surfing at an urban surfing something in Munich.

00:58:31 ◼   ► And yes, then off to FC Bayern

00:58:35 ◼   ► and Apple Rosenstrasse, our first show,

00:58:39 ◼   ► our first store in Germany, he says.

00:58:42 ◼   ► - So yeah, offer more stores.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Then he heads off to Naples.

00:58:46 ◼   ► - Hold, now, now, hold on, before we get there,

00:58:48 ◼   ► I have another update from Emma,

00:58:55 ◼   ► who has sent a link to Apple boss Tim Cook celebrates

00:58:59 ◼   ► with Kai Flama at the Oktoberfest

00:59:01 ◼   ► and suddenly tweets in Bavarian story.

00:59:03 ◼   ► Tim Cook used his visit to Germany

00:59:06 ◼   ► for a detour to the Oktoberfest.

00:59:09 ◼   ► Is there anything in there

00:59:10 ◼   ► or is this just German clickbait?

00:59:11 ◼   ► What is going on?

00:59:13 ◼   ► Tim is here.

00:59:14 ◼   ► - They're upset that he renounced Lederhosen.

00:59:17 ◼   ► - The television presenter had apparently made an appointment

00:59:19 ◼   ► with the CEO beforehand.

00:59:20 ◼   ► He posted several pictures and videos of it

00:59:22 ◼   ► on his Instagram account.

00:59:24 ◼   ► But he, yes, Tim renounced lederhosen,

00:59:29 ◼   ► and they say he appeared in jeans.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Those are khakis. Those aren't jeans.

00:59:32 ◼   ► Maybe that's a translation issue.

00:59:34 ◼   ► -Yeah, I will say that this is one of those things

00:59:36 ◼   ► where I'm, like, really thankful for web translation

00:59:39 ◼   ► inside of Safari. -Yep.

00:59:40 ◼   ► -Safari still doesn't support as many languages as Chrome does,

00:59:44 ◼   ► but I'm happy they added this feature.

00:59:46 ◼   ► So, 'cause now we can -- It doesn't really --

00:59:49 ◼   ► Basically, this is an article just referencing

00:59:51 ◼   ► the fact that this happened. -Yes.

00:59:52 ◼   ► -It doesn't really seem to give us any more context

00:59:54 ◼   ► as to why it happened, which is the real holy grail.

00:59:56 ◼   ► - Other than that the TV presenter

00:59:59 ◼   ► also put it on his Instagram.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Okay, off to Naples.

01:00:03 ◼   ► - Which I'm not surprised.

01:00:04 ◼   ► Yeah, off to Naples.

01:00:05 ◼   ► - Napoli, Italia.

01:00:06 ◼   ► - I'm going to Naples, meet some artists

01:00:08 ◼   ► that are using technology for sculpture.

01:00:11 ◼   ► I always wonder when I see these things,

01:00:13 ◼   ► you see a picture and like a guy's explaining something

01:00:15 ◼   ► to Tim Cook, how long do you think they spend together?

01:00:19 ◼   ► - Oh, I don't know, 15 minutes.

01:00:21 ◼   ► - It's gotta be, right?

01:00:22 ◼   ► like a very quick drop in drop out.

01:00:25 ◼   ► He then moves on to speaking at the Naples Developer Academy.

01:00:31 ◼   ► So Apple set up a bunch of these developer academies

01:00:34 ◼   ► around the world.

01:00:35 ◼   ► I think Italy was one of the first ones.

01:00:37 ◼   ► And he did a meet and greet

01:00:39 ◼   ► and looks like he did some kind of panel or conversation.

01:00:41 ◼   ► Tim is then given an honorary diploma

01:00:46 ◼   ► at the University of Naples Federico II.

01:00:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:00:50 ◼   ► Then it just continues, it's like,

01:00:52 ◼   ► "One day I'm getting a beer."

01:00:54 ◼   ► Now I'm in a chamber, now I have a diploma.

01:00:56 ◼   ► - So I sent you that note about the Ted Lasso thing, right?

01:01:01 ◼   ► And then the Oktoberfest thing happened,

01:01:03 ◼   ► and I thought, well, this is amazing.

01:01:05 ◼   ► And then it was like, but wait for it, wait for it.

01:01:07 ◼   ► Boom, honorary degree from Federico II,

01:01:11 ◼   ► where he's got his sort of robes on,

01:01:15 ◼   ► and the man presenting it to him

01:01:17 ◼   ► has sort of like a fur around his neck and a hat and robes,

01:01:21 ◼   ► and there's a giant oversized novelty diploma

01:01:25 ◼   ► for an honorary degree in innovation

01:01:28 ◼   ► and international management.

01:01:30 ◼   ► What? (laughs)

01:01:31 ◼   ► Amazing.

01:01:32 ◼   ► - Tim then met with some Paralympians

01:01:36 ◼   ► and is holding a fencing sword.

01:01:39 ◼   ► I know they've got a better name than that.

01:01:40 ◼   ► - Foil, foil.

01:01:41 ◼   ► - And I do wonder, is he holding it for the Paralympian

01:01:44 ◼   ► or do you think they did a bit of fencing?

01:01:46 ◼   ► I think they said, "Tim, here is a foil."

01:01:50 ◼   ► And he said, "Great."

01:01:52 ◼   ► And that was it.

01:01:53 ◼   ► - For the photo op, right?

01:01:54 ◼   ► Let's make it look like that you just engaged

01:01:56 ◼   ► in some fencing.

01:01:58 ◼   ► He then met with some photographers in Milan,

01:02:02 ◼   ► did a store visit in Milan,

01:02:04 ◼   ► met with a Milan-based app developer called BendingSpoons,

01:02:10 ◼   ► then spent some time with the Apple team in Milan

01:02:16 ◼   ► It was like a photo op.

01:02:18 ◼   ► And then it came out today

01:02:19 ◼   ► that you also had a private audience with the Pope

01:02:22 ◼   ► while he was in Italy. - What?

01:02:23 ◼   ► - Yeah. - What?

01:02:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:02:25 ◼   ► There was some images of this release today.

01:02:28 ◼   ► This was not something that he tweeted about,

01:02:31 ◼   ► which is interesting.

01:02:32 ◼   ► No Pope selfie.

01:02:33 ◼   ► But this was a point, this was reported on via Reuters

01:02:37 ◼   ► that Tim had a private meeting with the Pope.

01:02:41 ◼   ► - I mean, we have, there are pictures

01:02:43 ◼   ► of Tim shaking the hands of Pope Francis

01:02:47 ◼   ► and Tim sitting upright in a probably uncomfortable chair,

01:02:52 ◼   ► speaking to the Pope.

01:02:54 ◼   ► This isn't the first time Tim Cook

01:02:57 ◼   ► has visited Pope Francis.

01:02:58 ◼   ► - Is that true?

01:03:00 ◼   ► - This is what 9to5Mac says,

01:03:01 ◼   ► "Previously paid a visit to the Vatican in January of 2016."

01:03:04 ◼   ► But that was a private meeting

01:03:07 ◼   ► with no photo op for that one.

01:03:09 ◼   ► - I see.

01:03:10 ◼   ► I've said this a bunch on this show before,

01:03:11 ◼   ► but like Tim Cook is as powerful as a world leader.

01:03:16 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:03:18 ◼   ► - And like these things, when he does these things,

01:03:21 ◼   ► this is what world leaders do.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Like, you know, like they go and they do these tours

01:03:27 ◼   ► and like they do all these meet and greets

01:03:29 ◼   ► and like these follow ups, right?

01:03:30 ◼   ► - What role does Eddie Q serve in this parallel

01:03:35 ◼   ► of world leader?

01:03:36 ◼   ► What's Eddie doing?

01:03:40 ◼   ► I mean, he's, you know, he's out there having a good time, you know?

01:03:43 ◼   ► He's the secretary of commerce or something.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Making deals.

01:03:45 ◼   ► Maybe he's over there and he's like shooing Sudeikis along.

01:03:49 ◼   ► You know, like, "Come on, Jason, let's finish this off, shall we please?"

01:03:53 ◼   ► Could be. "Don't make Tim angry."

01:03:55 ◼   ► That's Tim Cook's tour of Europe for now.

01:03:59 ◼   ► I don't know he's done. I'm assuming he's done.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, he's been silent since the pope.

01:04:04 ◼   ► Maybe the pope said too many photos on Twitter.

01:04:07 ◼   ► Like, "Sorry, pope. Sorry."

01:04:09 ◼   ► - Give it a rest will you.

01:04:10 ◼   ► - Padre.

01:04:10 ◼   ► I, again, I just, you know,

01:04:15 ◼   ► I'm following along in real time

01:04:17 ◼   ► and each photo is more,

01:04:19 ◼   ► well, like a lot of them are standard photos, right?

01:04:21 ◼   ► You're like, oh yes, we went to a store, great.

01:04:23 ◼   ► And here's some, we met with some developers

01:04:25 ◼   ► and here's an inspiring person we met with.

01:04:27 ◼   ► I'm like, okay.

01:04:28 ◼   ► And now here, now we're holding giant beers

01:04:30 ◼   ► with EdiQ at Oktoberfest.

01:04:32 ◼   ► What?

01:04:33 ◼   ► And so it's like, okay, now we're in Italy.

01:04:36 ◼   ► I'm like, oh geez, how long is this tour gonna go?

01:04:38 ◼   ► I feel for the guy."

01:04:39 ◼   ► And they're like, "Yeah, we met with these people

01:04:41 ◼   ► and these people.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Oh, and then I got an honorary degree

01:04:44 ◼   ► from the guy with the hat and the fur."

01:04:47 ◼   ► What?

01:04:48 ◼   ► So just very entertaining.

01:04:51 ◼   ► So I hope you've enjoyed this retrospective tour

01:04:55 ◼   ► of Europe with Tim Cook.

01:04:58 ◼   ► It's amazing.

01:04:59 ◼   ► Maybe there's an Apple TV+ series in this.

01:05:00 ◼   ► It's Tim Cook searching for the pope.

01:05:03 ◼   ► - Tim travels.

01:05:04 ◼   ► - Tim travels.

01:05:05 ◼   ► It's like, maybe like cooking up or something, right?

01:05:10 ◼   ► Like, right?

01:05:12 ◼   ► It's something-- - European cooking.

01:05:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's something there, right?

01:05:17 ◼   ► Like it's like cooking something.

01:05:19 ◼   ► - Tim and Eddie do Europe?

01:05:21 ◼   ► - That'll work for me.

01:05:22 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by CleanMyMacX.

01:05:27 ◼   ► You wanna make sure that you can trust your Mac.

01:05:29 ◼   ► It is a crucial tool for work, for education,

01:05:32 ◼   ► maybe for social life, whatever it is

01:05:34 ◼   ► that you're doing on your Mac. A MacPaw are on a mission to help machines help you, which

01:05:38 ◼   ► is why they developed CleanMyMac X, which is an ideal decluttering app for the Mac that

01:05:43 ◼   ► can keep yours in tip top shape. CleanMyMac X includes 49 tools to help you find and delete

01:05:49 ◼   ► invisible computer junk. It helps you tune up your Mac to help it run at its full capacity.

01:05:55 ◼   ► It organises your disk space, it shows you large hidden folders, meaning that you can

01:05:59 ◼   ► free up tons of space so your Mac never runs into issues of storage. This is a thing that

01:06:03 ◼   ► I use CleanMyMac X for.

01:06:05 ◼   ► It was a few versions of Mac OS ago, it became really hard to actually find out how much

01:06:11 ◼   ► space do I actually have on my computer because I feel like my computer lies to me a lot.

01:06:16 ◼   ► CleanMyMac X helped me find the files that I want to get rid of and makes it really easy

01:06:20 ◼   ► to free up that space.

01:06:21 ◼   ► I also find it helpful if I'm running into like Dropbox issues or whatever and want to

01:06:26 ◼   ► move some space there I can do all of that so I can see what's in all my files and get

01:06:30 ◼   ► things removed.

01:06:31 ◼   ► It's really really great.

01:06:32 ◼   ► It will, CleanMyMac X will help you fight Mac specific malware and adware to protect

01:06:36 ◼   ► your computer and all in all prevent your Mac from cluttering, from lagging, from slowing

01:06:41 ◼   ► down.

01:06:42 ◼   ► CleanMyMac's all new menu bar app helps you take care of your Mac's health with six detailed

01:06:47 ◼   ► monitors to provide useful information about your Mac's available storage, the state of

01:06:52 ◼   ► protection, your CPU performance, RAM, battery and network speeds.

01:06:56 ◼   ► CleanMyMac X is notarized by Apple and is available in the Mac App Store so it's all

01:07:00 ◼   ► checked and it's all good, it's good for security and it's great to have it there. It also really

01:07:03 ◼   ► stands out in its design. In 2021, CleanMyMac was honoured with the Red Dot Award with UX Design as

01:07:10 ◼   ► its focus and has become a Webby Award nominee this year. Get CleanMyMac X today with 5% off

01:07:17 ◼   ► MacPaw.app/upgrade. This discount is only available for 2 weeks so go now to MacPaw.app/upgrade for 5%

01:07:25 ◼   ► off. Despite the war in MacPaw's home country of Ukraine, the team have worked hard to make

01:07:31 ◼   ► sure there are no disruptions in the support and development of CleanMyMac X. The product

01:07:35 ◼   ► is stable, safe and secure and I believe is a team worth supporting. So go now to macpaw.app/upgrade.

01:07:42 ◼   ► Our thanks to CleanMyMac X for the support of this show and Relay FM.

01:07:47 ◼   ► It is time for some #AskUpgradeQuestions.

01:07:53 ◼   ► Today we start with Cameron who says,

01:07:55 ◼   ► "Jason, was there a testing mode

01:07:57 ◼   ► for the iPhone satellite communication feature

01:08:00 ◼   ► made available to reviewers?"

01:08:02 ◼   ► - No, but this is not,

01:08:05 ◼   ► 'cause the feature's not out yet.

01:08:07 ◼   ► I wonder though, if when they turn this feature on

01:08:12 ◼   ► in a software update, if there will be something

01:08:17 ◼   ► for us to test it as reviewers, right?

01:08:19 ◼   ► Something that's allowed so that we're not, you know,

01:08:22 ◼   ► doing fake emergency reports.

01:08:24 ◼   ► So my guess is that that may happen,

01:08:27 ◼   ► that they may actually contact a bunch of reviewers

01:08:29 ◼   ► and say, here is how you can test this.

01:08:31 ◼   ► - Maybe there's like a period of time

01:08:35 ◼   ► where like they know that any of these calls aren't real

01:08:39 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:08:40 ◼   ► - Right, or there's a certain thing we can do

01:08:42 ◼   ► to do a test that is not there for regular people,

01:08:47 ◼   ► but we know where it is, we know what to tap or whatever.

01:08:51 ◼   ► I think they would be smart to do that, right?

01:08:53 ◼   ► When they're rolling it out.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Basically that's another story saying Apple activates this.

01:08:57 ◼   ► And so as a part of that, they get people,

01:09:00 ◼   ► also because you don't want everybody,

01:09:03 ◼   ► but you certainly don't want the people

01:09:05 ◼   ► who are trying to report on this

01:09:06 ◼   ► to clog actual emergency lines.

01:09:09 ◼   ► So we'll see, but not yet, right?

01:09:12 ◼   ► 'Cause that feature's not in there yet.

01:09:14 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, I didn't actually know

01:09:17 ◼   ► it wasn't available yet.

01:09:18 ◼   ► I mean, because this is not available in the UK at all for the foreseeable future, right?

01:09:25 ◼   ► Like we don't know how long it will be.

01:09:26 ◼   ► I kind of just like had written it off in my mind like I hadn't really thought about

01:09:29 ◼   ► the feature.

01:09:30 ◼   ► I, because I know that the car crash detection, like that is available now.

01:09:36 ◼   ► But so like I kind of just put those two things together in my brain, but obviously it's not

01:09:40 ◼   ► available now.

01:09:41 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:42 ◼   ► I reckon they will do it, give you some kind of way to do it or you know, because it feels

01:09:48 ◼   ► like that's an important part of talking about the feature. You've got to be able to try

01:09:51 ◼   ► and use it.

01:09:53 ◼   ► Whether they know, like, is every reviewer going to get it or are they going to go to

01:09:57 ◼   ► like five reviewers and say, "Here's a thing you can do." I don't know that part, but it

01:10:00 ◼   ► would be smart if they did.

01:10:02 ◼   ► Yeah, and that might be just like a complexity thing, right, that they might have to just

01:10:07 ◼   ► pick a few people and, you know, so they're not making them. I don't know, because it

01:10:11 ◼   ► feels like it might be complicated. Who knows? Anyway, Sean asks, "Jason, can you help me

01:10:14 ◼   ► choose between the Kobo Clara HD and the Kobo Clara 2? Well these are ebook

01:10:21 ◼   ► readers. I don't think I have the Kobo Clara. Oh, okay. It's not one of the ones that I have.

01:10:32 ◼   ► It doesn't have buttons. I'm a strong proponent of page turn buttons and

01:10:37 ◼   ► that's why I think that if you can get the Kobo Libra, it's better.

01:10:43 ◼   ► It's got buttons.

01:10:44 ◼   ► Libra 2 is the one that's the current version.

01:10:46 ◼   ► They're both pretty close.

01:10:47 ◼   ► The only real difference between them is that

01:10:49 ◼   ► the Libra 2 has USB-C and the Libra has micro USB.

01:10:54 ◼   ► So USB-C is better just because you've got those cables

01:10:59 ◼   ► around somewhere and can find them faster.

01:11:02 ◼   ► But I would go with that over the Clara

01:11:05 ◼   ► even though it's more expensive

01:11:06 ◼   ► because I'm a big believer in page turn buttons.

01:11:09 ◼   ► I haven't tried the Clara, so I can't actually review it.

01:11:12 ◼   ► That's their lower end one.

01:11:14 ◼   ► I'm such a believer in physical page turn buttons

01:11:16 ◼   ► that I don't really like or want to use those.

01:11:20 ◼   ► And I didn't get the,

01:11:22 ◼   ► I got the higher end ones when I was reviewing these.

01:11:25 ◼   ► So I haven't, I don't have a,

01:11:26 ◼   ► my choice there is look at, I mean,

01:11:31 ◼   ► I don't know the difference between the HD and the two.

01:11:35 ◼   ► My guess is that it's not particularly great.

01:11:37 ◼   ► I think the Clara 2 is the one that's current.

01:11:39 ◼   ► So get one with buttons.

01:11:43 ◼   ► That's essentially my review.

01:11:44 ◼   ► I should also say the Kindle software

01:11:49 ◼   ► is better than it used to be.

01:11:50 ◼   ► The Kindle software is not necessarily as good

01:11:53 ◼   ► as the Kobo software,

01:11:54 ◼   ► but it used to be a much wider gap than it is now.

01:11:57 ◼   ► So you could also look at the Kindle Paperwhite,

01:12:00 ◼   ► which is comparable.

01:12:01 ◼   ► And the software, like I said,

01:12:05 ◼   ► is a lot better than it used to be.

01:12:06 ◼   ► So Kindles are also acceptable.

01:12:08 ◼   ► the Paperwhite's a pretty good deal.

01:12:10 ◼   ► But right now my ebook reader of choice

01:12:13 ◼   ► is the Kobo Libra 2.

01:12:15 ◼   ► I like the size, I like the price.

01:12:18 ◼   ► It's like more than $100 cheaper than the Kindle Oasis,

01:12:23 ◼   ► which is the cheapest Kindle

01:12:25 ◼   ► that has physical page turn buttons.

01:12:27 ◼   ► And does it feel $100 cheaper?

01:12:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's all plastic,

01:12:31 ◼   ► but otherwise it's the same and it's cheaper.

01:12:35 ◼   ► So it depends on how much money you wanna pay

01:12:38 ◼   ► for one of these, but Libra is my favorite right now.

01:12:40 ◼   ► - Tyler asks, I haven't heard it discussed

01:12:44 ◼   ► as much as the bigger features,

01:12:46 ◼   ► but the sound that the iPhone makes

01:12:48 ◼   ► when you ping it from your watch has changed of iOS 16.

01:12:52 ◼   ► What do you think of the new sound

01:12:53 ◼   ► and do you use the feature often?

01:12:55 ◼   ► So this is when you can use the watch

01:12:56 ◼   ► and you can have it make the noise, right?

01:12:58 ◼   ► You know what I'm talking about?

01:12:59 ◼   ► Like when you wanna find your phone?

01:13:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm not used to it, but I don't really have an,

01:13:04 ◼   ► I don't care beyond that.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Hopefully it's more audible.

01:13:09 ◼   ► It seems, it's just different.

01:13:12 ◼   ► - The new sound is nicer, I think.

01:13:14 ◼   ► I found the old sound to be quite like piercing,

01:13:18 ◼   ► and the new one I find to be a more pleasant noise

01:13:21 ◼   ► than the old one.

01:13:22 ◼   ► - I guess the question is, is that what you want?

01:13:25 ◼   ► Do you want piercing?

01:13:27 ◼   ► - I can give you a demo of what the new one sounds like,

01:13:30 ◼   ► which is this. - Okay.

01:13:32 ◼   ► (piano music)

01:13:35 ◼   ► - It is more pleasant, isn't it?

01:13:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's much more pleasant.

01:13:38 ◼   ► I don't know if it helps you find it more or less,

01:13:41 ◼   ► but I expect they've probably done some work on that, right?

01:13:46 ◼   ► That like it's, you know, it's probably good enough.

01:13:50 ◼   ► But I do use this feature a lot.

01:13:52 ◼   ► It is a feature in my house,

01:13:53 ◼   ► which if you ever hear this sound,

01:13:55 ◼   ► you get to laugh at the other person.

01:13:57 ◼   ► So me and Adina have this.

01:13:59 ◼   ► - True. - Like, it's funny.

01:14:01 ◼   ► 'cause if you've heard that noise,

01:14:03 ◼   ► something bad's happened, you've looked

01:14:05 ◼   ► and you can't find it now.

01:14:06 ◼   ► - Can't find it.

01:14:07 ◼   ► - And so that there is something funny about that for sure.

01:14:10 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm very happy that that feature exists.

01:14:13 ◼   ► And I'm happy now that they seem to be making more devices.

01:14:18 ◼   ► So we would talk, me and Jason

01:14:19 ◼   ► would talk about this before the show.

01:14:21 ◼   ► We both haven't been able to use AirPods Pro yet.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Like I think we'll probably have something to say

01:14:26 ◼   ► about those next week.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Mine, I think have arrived today.

01:14:29 ◼   ► I haven't at home, so I haven't been able to use them yet.

01:14:33 ◼   ► But I'm happy they're adding more functionality

01:14:37 ◼   ► to the case, so right, the case is findable.

01:14:40 ◼   ► More findable than it was before.

01:14:42 ◼   ► 'Cause like just over the weekend,

01:14:43 ◼   ► I had to, I couldn't find my AirPods.

01:14:45 ◼   ► And I'd left them in my trouser pocket

01:14:48 ◼   ► and put my trousers in the laundry basket,

01:14:49 ◼   ► which is why I couldn't find them.

01:14:51 ◼   ► And I was using the old AirPods Pro

01:14:55 ◼   ► kind of like finding system, which is with Bluetooth.

01:14:57 ◼   ► And it's not very good.

01:14:59 ◼   ► I'm like walking around the whole house

01:15:01 ◼   ► until it says it's near, but that's all it can tell me.

01:15:04 ◼   ► It's just like, hey, it's near.

01:15:06 ◼   ► But now I'm expecting it to be better.

01:15:07 ◼   ► Plus I could have it make noise,

01:15:09 ◼   ► which I'm actually pretty excited about the new case.

01:15:11 ◼   ► So that'd be cool.

01:15:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, next week we'll have more to say

01:15:15 ◼   ► about those, I suspect.

01:15:16 ◼   ► - Ryan's asking a question,

01:15:18 ◼   ► which I don't have an answer for,

01:15:20 ◼   ► but I actually do need this answer.

01:15:22 ◼   ► So I'm gonna ask it and then maybe you

01:15:24 ◼   ► or another Upgrading can help me.

01:15:27 ◼   ► Ryan asks why does the Apple Watch have a separate set of alarms from the iPhone? I

01:15:33 ◼   ► like to use Siri to set the alarms, but I keep getting different results based on whether

01:15:37 ◼   ► I spoke to my phone or my watch. Is there any way I can force them to be in sync?

01:15:43 ◼   ► Now the one thing I'll add to this Jason, I believe that the Apple Watch always alerts

01:15:50 ◼   ► you to an iPhone alarm, but it's not the other way around. And this is the same with

01:15:54 ◼   ► timers too. Like if you set a timer on the iPhone it will go off on the iPhone and your

01:15:59 ◼   ► watch. You set a timer on the watch it just goes off on your watch. Now, I mean one of

01:16:05 ◼   ► the reasons I noticed that recently is I wish that the live activity would show up on my

01:16:08 ◼   ► iPhone if I set it on my watch as a timer. Now the reason I want to know the answer to

01:16:14 ◼   ► this question is Adina just got a Series 8 and is now wearing it at night so she can

01:16:20 ◼   ► do the temperature stuff, right? So she can like be checking her temperature because that's

01:16:24 ◼   ► That's one of the features you have to wear at night.

01:16:27 ◼   ► But now she is annoyed about the way

01:16:28 ◼   ► that her alarm is going off.

01:16:30 ◼   ► And it seems like some mornings she's telling me

01:16:32 ◼   ► that it's just going off on her wrist,

01:16:33 ◼   ► but she'd like it to go off on the phone.

01:16:35 ◼   ► And so basically I want to know,

01:16:37 ◼   ► does anybody know of a way to get them both to go off,

01:16:40 ◼   ► the watch and the phone?

01:16:43 ◼   ► Do you know, have any idea about this?

01:16:44 ◼   ► I never have worn mine to sleep.

01:16:46 ◼   ► - So I don't know about the sleep tracking and the syncing.

01:16:51 ◼   ► My guess is that Apple, and I think they're right here,

01:16:55 ◼   ► but the idea is if I set an alarm on my watch,

01:17:00 ◼   ► I don't expect my phone to make noise, right?

01:17:06 ◼   ► I don't expect that.

01:17:07 ◼   ► I expect it to just be my watch.

01:17:10 ◼   ► It's interesting the other way, right?

01:17:13 ◼   ► I think the idea there is that your watch is always with you

01:17:15 ◼   ► so if you're not near your phone and the alarm goes off,

01:17:18 ◼   ► the watch will warn you that there's an alarm happening

01:17:22 ◼   ► back on your phone.

01:17:23 ◼   ► And I think that's the philosophy there, right?

01:17:26 ◼   ► I don't know about being able to choose

01:17:29 ◼   ► to sync them back and forth,

01:17:31 ◼   ► but like, I think if anything you said,

01:17:33 ◼   ► anything you said on the Apple Watch

01:17:35 ◼   ► stays on the Apple Watch,

01:17:38 ◼   ► I think is the just by default, that's the idea there.

01:17:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, we've been having some questions in my house

01:17:45 ◼   ► that have yet to be answered yet

01:17:46 ◼   ► as to whether the phone is also going off.

01:17:49 ◼   ► This is, you know, like one of the things

01:17:50 ◼   ► where it's like, you're just not 100% sure.

01:17:52 ◼   ► So I think we need to be doing some more testing

01:17:56 ◼   ► on that one, I think.

01:17:57 ◼   ► And Sims asks, are there any current Macs

01:18:01 ◼   ► you wish were available of a different Apple Silicon chip?

01:18:04 ◼   ► - Hmm, with a different Apple Silicon chip.

01:18:08 ◼   ► - So this can be one that doesn't currently have one,

01:18:11 ◼   ► of which there aren't many now,

01:18:13 ◼   ► or there is a Mac already has an Apple Silicon chip in it,

01:18:17 ◼   ► but you would like it to have something other

01:18:19 ◼   ► than what it currently has.

01:18:20 ◼   ► - Well, the glaring one is that the M1 iMac

01:18:23 ◼   ► doesn't come in a higher end M1 chip.

01:18:25 ◼   ► - That's what I have, an iMac with a Pro chip.

01:18:28 ◼   ► That's what I would like to see.

01:18:29 ◼   ► - I think that's the big one.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And then obviously a Mac Mini for the same reason.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Like I really wish there was a desktop Mac

01:18:38 ◼   ► that had the M1 Pro in it, right?

01:18:41 ◼   ► because like the Mac Studio has the Macs or the Ultra.

01:18:45 ◼   ► And then the iMac and the Mac Mini have the M1,

01:18:49 ◼   ► but there's nothing in that middle ground of the Pro,

01:18:54 ◼   ► which would be nice to have.

01:18:56 ◼   ► I'm hoping that this will get rectified this month, but.

01:19:01 ◼   ► - Ah, I think next year, right?

01:19:03 ◼   ► I feel like before the iMac.

01:19:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, but the Mac Mini.

01:19:06 ◼   ► - Oh, sorry, the Mac Mini, yes.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Could do. - Right?

01:19:09 ◼   ► - Right, could do.

01:19:10 ◼   ► We'll see. But that was my thinking is that they'll replace that Intel Mac Mini that's still kicking around with a version with a more robust chip in it. But we'll see. I don't know.

01:19:21 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question for us to answer in a future episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use ?AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members Discord. We would very much appreciate your questions.

01:19:34 ◼   ► Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:19:36 ◼   ► Thanks to CleanMyMac X, Memberfort and Squarespace for sponsoring the show.

01:19:41 ◼   ► And thank you for listening and especially if you support us with Upgrade Plus.

01:19:45 ◼   ► Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you can sign up, get ad-free longer episodes of the show

01:19:49 ◼   ► and you will help support us as well, which we greatly appreciate.

01:19:52 ◼   ► If you want to find Jason online, go to SixColors.com

01:19:55 ◼   ► and he is @JasonO on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:19:58 ◼   ► And I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:20:02 ◼   ► We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:20:06 ◼   ► Goodbye, everybody.

01:20:07 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:20:10 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:20:14 ◼   ► [BLANK_AUDIO]