Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 428.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Fitbud, Hover, and CleanMyMac X.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hi, Myke Hurley. It's good to be here.

00:00:23 ◼   ► I have a #SnellTalk question for you, if you could imagine such things.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Oh great. That's how we do it here.

00:00:28 ◼   ► - That is how we start them all.

00:00:29 ◼   ► This one comes from Mark and Mark wants to know,

00:00:32 ◼   ► Jason, when you read a hardcover book,

00:00:35 ◼   ► or used to, I guess, says Mark,

00:00:38 ◼   ► there's Mark added that in there,

00:00:39 ◼   ► you can suggest if Mark is right or wrong about that.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Anyway, do you remove the slipcover?

00:00:44 ◼   ► - All right, so the answer is yes.

00:00:46 ◼   ► I remember the last hardcover book

00:00:49 ◼   ► that I bought for myself and took on a trip,

00:00:52 ◼   ► which was I think the last hardcover book

00:00:54 ◼   ► I bought for myself with,

00:00:56 ◼   ► I guess there are a couple exceptions

00:00:57 ◼   ► where I bought like an autographed copy

00:00:59 ◼   ► from an author I like, that sort of thing.

00:01:02 ◼   ► It was "Cryptonomicon" by Neal Stephenson.

00:01:06 ◼   ► It was a very, very, very large, heavy Neal Stephenson

00:01:08 ◼   ► thousand page novel.

00:01:10 ◼   ► And I got a Kindle and was like, I'm never doing this again.

00:01:15 ◼   ► So I don't, I very rarely read a hardcover book.

00:01:17 ◼   ► But if I do, like Joe Posnanski's "Baseball 100"

00:01:22 ◼   ► or whatever, I leave the slip cover on.

00:01:24 ◼   ► And in fact, I have been known to tuck

00:01:26 ◼   ► one of the flaps of this cover into the book as a bookmark

00:01:31 ◼   ► if I don't have another bookmark.

00:01:33 ◼   ► So that's a little bonus for you there.

00:01:35 ◼   ► But basically every book I read now is on a Kobo actually,

00:01:40 ◼   ► but you know, an e-reader.

00:01:41 ◼   ► I don't do paper books anymore

00:01:43 ◼   ► and I have very little nostalgia for it.

00:01:47 ◼   ► And I have very little tolerance

00:01:48 ◼   ► for other people's nostalgia for it.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Like read what you like.

00:01:51 ◼   ► It's the think pieces that are like,

00:01:53 ◼   ► "Oh, is something lost when you can't smell the paper?"

00:01:57 ◼   ► And my answer is no.

00:01:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I could also have

00:02:01 ◼   ► like a reel-to-reel projector if I wanted to

00:02:04 ◼   ► rather than a television.

00:02:05 ◼   ► Cassette tapes are cool again.

00:02:07 ◼   ► - Cassette tapes, sure.

00:02:09 ◼   ► They auto-reverse.

00:02:10 ◼   ► You get, theoretically, they could play forever, right?

00:02:12 ◼   ► They just play one side, flip over, go the other way,

00:02:15 ◼   ► flip over, go back the other way.

00:02:16 ◼   ► You can just listen to one thing

00:02:18 ◼   ► for all time on a cassette tape.

00:02:20 ◼   ► - It's the only way to do it.

00:02:22 ◼   ► - I have a secondary question for you.

00:02:24 ◼   ► This comes from me and me says.

00:02:26 ◼   ► - Oh, hi me.

00:02:27 ◼   ► - Hi.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Are Kobo's like, are they like the hipster Kindle,

00:02:31 ◼   ► do you think?

00:02:32 ◼   ► - I mean, are Mac books like the hipster laptop?

00:02:37 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:02:38 ◼   ► - Okay, 'cause in the sense that there's a dominant

00:02:41 ◼   ► market leader and then there's the one that sort of people

00:02:43 ◼   ► in the know think is better, I think is probably yes.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Although I'll also say it's no,

00:02:50 ◼   ► because Kobo has a deal with like Walmart,

00:02:53 ◼   ► where Walmart's ebook store is also,

00:02:57 ◼   ► you can log in with your Walmart ID to a Kobo

00:03:00 ◼   ► and buy books that way.

00:03:01 ◼   ► So that's very unhip.

00:03:03 ◼   ► - So actually Kobo is the hipster e-reader that sold out.

00:03:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, sure.

00:03:09 ◼   ► - That sold out to Walmart.

00:03:11 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:03:12 ◼   ► I just, Scott McNulty, a friend of the show,

00:03:14 ◼   ► wrote a piece about how he finally gave a Kobo a try

00:03:16 ◼   ► and he did not like it,

00:03:18 ◼   ► which is because he's been taken over by Big Kindle.

00:03:22 ◼   ► - Isn't that just Amazon?

00:03:23 ◼   ► Like, isn't that Big Kindle?

00:03:25 ◼   ► - No, Amazon's so big that Big Kindle

00:03:28 ◼   ► is just a small subsidiary of Amazon, unfortunately.

00:03:32 ◼   ► Anyway, Scott made a point that I actually linked to

00:03:36 ◼   ► from Six Colors, which is the software gap

00:03:39 ◼   ► between Kindle and Kobo used to be much larger

00:03:41 ◼   ► than it is now.

00:03:42 ◼   ► There was a Kindle software update last year

00:03:43 ◼   ► that actually really improved the Kindle software.

00:03:47 ◼   ► It's way better than it used to be.

00:03:48 ◼   ► It's still, I would say not as good as the Kobo software.

00:03:51 ◼   ► And there's lots of reasons to prefer Kobo,

00:03:53 ◼   ► but there are fewer of them than there were last time.

00:03:57 ◼   ► And I still think the best, if you're like me

00:03:59 ◼   ► and you think that physical page turn buttons

00:04:01 ◼   ► on your e-reader are a thing that is a priority,

00:04:04 ◼   ► the best e-reader with physical page turn buttons

00:04:09 ◼   ► is the Kobo Libra 2, because it's like more than 100 bucks

00:04:13 ◼   ► less than the cheapest Kindle with physical page turn buttons,

00:04:18 ◼   ► because that's the Oasis and it's not cheap at all.

00:04:20 ◼   ► So there are lots of reasons that you

00:04:22 ◼   ► might want to get a Kobo.

00:04:23 ◼   ► And I felt--

00:04:24 ◼   ► I was like, let's not go all in on the Amazon ebook monopoly.

00:04:31 ◼   ► And I've been fine with it.

00:04:32 ◼   ► I've enjoyed it.

00:04:32 ◼   ► I have a Kindle Oasis.

00:04:34 ◼   ► I could use it.

00:04:35 ◼   ► It is nicer hardware, but the software

00:04:38 ◼   ► is still nicer enough on the Kobo

00:04:40 ◼   ► that I keep using the Kobo instead.

00:04:43 ◼   ► - Kobo Libra 2.

00:04:45 ◼   ► - Libra 2, yeah, yeah.

00:04:47 ◼   ► And we'll see, I mean, Amazon could make this moot

00:04:49 ◼   ► if it came up out with a new round of Kindles,

00:04:53 ◼   ► but I feel like Amazon thinks that buttons to turn the page

00:04:56 ◼   ► are a premium feature that should only be

00:04:58 ◼   ► on the most high end of products.

00:05:00 ◼   ► And as long as that's the case,

00:05:02 ◼   ► I'm gonna prefer the Kobo because the Kobo,

00:05:07 ◼   ► Kobo doesn't seem to think that.

00:05:10 ◼   ► I mean, they do have a cheaper one that doesn't have buttons

00:05:12 ◼   ► but that you can get for 100 to 120 less

00:05:17 ◼   ► to get what is essentially the same e-reader

00:05:20 ◼   ► and slightly not as nice hardware.

00:05:23 ◼   ► That's a pretty big gap.

00:05:26 ◼   ► - The Kindle Scribe is a very interesting

00:05:31 ◼   ► looking product to me.

00:05:32 ◼   ► - It is, so this is, somebody asked me,

00:05:34 ◼   ► they're like, "Oh, Jason, you review e-readers,

00:05:37 ◼   ► "are you gonna review the Kindle Scribe?"

00:05:38 ◼   ► And the problem I have with it is there is this weird,

00:05:40 ◼   ► Like e-readers are a weird sub category to begin with,

00:05:43 ◼   ► but there is a weird sub sub category of e-readers,

00:05:47 ◼   ► which is the e-reader note takers,

00:05:50 ◼   ► where you've got a bigger screen

00:05:53 ◼   ► and support for a pen basically,

00:05:56 ◼   ► so that you can read documents, usually PDFs,

00:05:59 ◼   ► although it can be other books and things,

00:06:01 ◼   ► and use your pen to mark them up or take notes.

00:06:05 ◼   ► And there are a bunch of those that are like,

00:06:08 ◼   ► There's some Android things where they put e-paper

00:06:11 ◼   ► on an Android tablet.

00:06:13 ◼   ► There is, I think Kobo has one in Kindle now,

00:06:17 ◼   ► the Amazon Kindle, big Kindle.

00:06:18 ◼   ► - Remarkable is like,

00:06:20 ◼   ► - And yes, the one that you see on the Instagram ads.

00:06:24 ◼   ► - Constantly, yeah, forever.

00:06:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, along with that little device that lets you type

00:06:30 ◼   ► without being on a computer, whatever that thing is called.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Those are my, every Instagram ad I get

00:06:34 ◼   ► is those two things. - Wait, what?

00:06:35 ◼   ► - Oh, it's got like a little e-paper or e-ink screen

00:06:40 ◼   ► and it's like a typewriter, basically.

00:06:44 ◼   ► - Interesting, I've never seen that one.

00:06:45 ◼   ► That one's a you one, right?

00:06:47 ◼   ► They're not gonna get that one to me.

00:06:48 ◼   ► I don't write anything.

00:06:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I guess that's true.

00:06:51 ◼   ► But for other people, so I am utterly uninterested

00:06:55 ◼   ► in the e-ink note-taking.

00:06:59 ◼   ► It's not part of my life, it's not a thing I do.

00:07:01 ◼   ► I also don't particularly like handwriting anything,

00:07:05 ◼   ► But it is an interesting, so I'm not gonna read about it

00:07:08 ◼   ► 'cause I do not care about it, but it is interesting

00:07:11 ◼   ► that Amazon is now going in that direction too,

00:07:14 ◼   ► especially since they had the Kindle DX back in the day,

00:07:16 ◼   ► which sort of was trying to do this and was kind of a flop

00:07:19 ◼   ► and they killed it after a while.

00:07:21 ◼   ► - The DX was like a magazine thing though, right?

00:07:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was big, but it also had,

00:07:25 ◼   ► it was also for notes, theoretically,

00:07:27 ◼   ► note-taking and all that.

00:07:28 ◼   ► But I guess the tech has gotten a lot better

00:07:30 ◼   ► where they think this is basically like a virtual notepad

00:07:34 ◼   ► There are no buttons on it though. No page turn buttons even though it starts at $339.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I mean I can see for a product that's got a lot of pen input that the buttons don't

00:07:46 ◼   ► even need to be there as opposed to a dedicated reader.

00:07:49 ◼   ► This one is interesting to me, I'll say that, just because for what the product is it's

00:07:54 ◼   ► a little bit different and it's more of a note taking device which is something that

00:07:58 ◼   ► I would care more about. I think this is super interesting and I feel bad for Remarkable

00:08:02 ◼   ► Because I don't think, because you know, I mean, the thing about the

00:08:06 ◼   ► Remarkable tablet for me, I think me and Ray will talk about this in

00:08:09 ◼   ► Cortex because we spoke about the Remarkable a little while ago, but the

00:08:14 ◼   ► thing about the Remarkable was like, it would be great if I could write on

00:08:17 ◼   ► my Kindle books, but you can't.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Well, do you know what can?

00:08:22 ◼   ► The Kindle one.

00:08:24 ◼   ► And I think they're doing a thing that this isn't interesting to me, but I

00:08:27 ◼   ► think it will be interesting to people.

00:08:29 ◼   ► They're working with Microsoft, so you can,

00:08:32 ◼   ► there'll be a button in Word,

00:08:34 ◼   ► and you can send your Word documents to your Kindle scribe.

00:08:39 ◼   ► Now, I don't care about that,

00:08:42 ◼   ► but that seems like a really good feature.

00:08:45 ◼   ► You know what I mean? - Yeah, if you're an attorney

00:08:46 ◼   ► or any business type person, Microsoft business type,

00:08:50 ◼   ► I mean, that's a use case here, right?

00:08:54 ◼   ► It's somebody who wants to mark documents up on paper,

00:08:57 ◼   ► but have them be accessible electronically,

00:09:00 ◼   ► this is how you do something like that.

00:09:02 ◼   ► It's part of that whole, you know,

00:09:03 ◼   ► it's another stab at the whole paperless office concept

00:09:06 ◼   ► to use an ink reader and a pencil,

00:09:09 ◼   ► you know, pen stylist thingy instead.

00:09:11 ◼   ► By the way, it's the Freerite Traveler

00:09:13 ◼   ► is the other one that I get endlessly recommended to me

00:09:16 ◼   ► on Instagram, which is like a keyboard.

00:09:19 ◼   ► It's got a little flip up thing.

00:09:22 ◼   ► - Genuinely, I'm surprised you haven't bought this.

00:09:24 ◼   ► This feels like a Jason Snell product through and through

00:09:27 ◼   ► of like, here's this little fun little thing.

00:09:29 ◼   ► - But that's the thing is it's sort of a fun little thing,

00:09:33 ◼   ► but there are like so many,

00:09:34 ◼   ► like I would just use an iPad, right?

00:09:37 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:09:38 ◼   ► I feel like if this had more tinkerability,

00:09:42 ◼   ► it doesn't look very tinkerable, this thing.

00:09:44 ◼   ► - No, 'cause I just think the experience

00:09:46 ◼   ► is probably not very good.

00:09:47 ◼   ► And I've got so many options for very, very small,

00:09:52 ◼   ► very light writing environments now, right?

00:09:54 ◼   ► That this is not, no.

00:09:57 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:09:58 ◼   ► But it is, I mean, I'm fascinated by it.

00:10:00 ◼   ► I love the idea, but I wouldn't buy it

00:10:03 ◼   ► 'cause I wouldn't use it.

00:10:04 ◼   ► - If you would like to send in a Snell Talk question

00:10:08 ◼   ► of your own to help us start off the show,

00:10:10 ◼   ► then maybe I'll ask a supplementary question too,

00:10:12 ◼   ► if I want to.

00:10:14 ◼   ► You can send them in with the hashtag Snell Talk

00:10:16 ◼   ► or use question mark Snell Talk

00:10:18 ◼   ► in the Relay FM members discord.

00:10:21 ◼   ► I have some items of follow up, Jason Snell.

00:10:24 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:10:25 ◼   ► - So we've been talking a bit recently

00:10:27 ◼   ► about potential sales figures of the new iPhones,

00:10:31 ◼   ► you know, like wondering like,

00:10:32 ◼   ► are these gonna-- - Right, how's it going?

00:10:33 ◼   ► - How are they gonna do?

00:10:35 ◼   ► Well, Foxconn, Apple's primary supplier,

00:10:39 ◼   ► I think maybe only supplier,

00:10:42 ◼   ► like manufacturer I meant to say, of iPhones,

00:10:45 ◼   ► has set new monthly revenue records.

00:10:49 ◼   ► They haven't said, they've said they've had storming demand,

00:10:54 ◼   ► right? Like it's been like they're 40% year over year up.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Foxconn don't explicitly name Apple as the reason

00:11:02 ◼   ► for this 40% year over year increase in their earnings,

00:11:07 ◼   ► but it's considered by analysts

00:11:08 ◼   ► that the only new product launch

00:11:10 ◼   ► that could drive the increase they are seeing

00:11:13 ◼   ► is the iPhone.

00:11:14 ◼   ► - Okay, I mean, it's,

00:11:16 ◼   ► maybe we'll get a better hint at the end of the month

00:11:18 ◼   ► with the financials, but this suggests that whatever,

00:11:22 ◼   ► Either that or they had a bad year last year or something,

00:11:26 ◼   ► but this is an interesting positive sign for iPhone sales.

00:11:29 ◼   ► - And I think this is maybe my favorite thing

00:11:34 ◼   ► I've ever written in the document.

00:11:35 ◼   ► So I write these little headings

00:11:37 ◼   ► and then I put links and notes in for individual things.

00:11:40 ◼   ► This is rollercoaster car crashes.

00:11:43 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:11:44 ◼   ► - The "Wall Street Journal."

00:11:45 ◼   ► - This is your super karate monkey death car moment.

00:11:48 ◼   ► - The "Wall Street Journal" is reporting

00:11:49 ◼   ► that Apple's new car crash detection features

00:11:52 ◼   ► are being triggered by roller coasters.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Joanna Stern reported and wrote the article

00:11:57 ◼   ► and spoke with a theme park in Cincinnati

00:12:00 ◼   ► that has already received

00:12:01 ◼   ► six accidentally triggered emergency responses.

00:12:04 ◼   ► I just find this to be quite funny

00:12:08 ◼   ► and what you're gonna do.

00:12:10 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:12:11 ◼   ► Like what are you gonna do?

00:12:11 ◼   ► There's nothing you can do about it.

00:12:13 ◼   ► - I guess Apple might be interested in looking at that data

00:12:16 ◼   ► to see if there's a way for them to do a software update

00:12:18 ◼   ► where they lock out certain sorts of signals

00:12:21 ◼   ► as rollercoaster signals, that would be interesting, right?

00:12:25 ◼   ► To say, is there a way for Apple to improve the algorithm

00:12:27 ◼   ► so that this stuff gets locked out?

00:12:31 ◼   ► And also, I think in the meantime, what's gonna happen is

00:12:33 ◼   ► the dispatchers are gonna be like,

00:12:36 ◼   ► that's a rollercoaster thing, right?

00:12:38 ◼   ► Like they're gonna realize that,

00:12:41 ◼   ► of what's going on and work around it.

00:12:43 ◼   ► But that's a very funny thing that obviously

00:12:45 ◼   ► Apple's algorithm didn't test

00:12:48 ◼   ► at least some rollercoaster profiles that set it off.

00:12:53 ◼   ► - I don't know if someone would naturally draw that link

00:12:58 ◼   ► before it happens.

00:13:00 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:13:01 ◼   ► I mean, it is somebody's job to think about

00:13:02 ◼   ► what other ways could we trigger a false positive here.

00:13:05 ◼   ► And maybe they did, but there's a certain aspect of,

00:13:09 ◼   ► for example, the theme park in Cincinnati

00:13:12 ◼   ► that their coaster sets it off.

00:13:15 ◼   ► - Right.

00:13:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, the other thought I had was

00:13:18 ◼   ► could also set it up where literally you know where the roller coasters are and if it goes

00:13:23 ◼   ► off on the roller coaster, the Apple Watch knows or the phone knows, "Oh, not here."

00:13:30 ◼   ► Right? Like you could literally just block out…

00:13:31 ◼   ► Because it knows where you are, that's part of the whole process is identifying the location.

00:13:36 ◼   ► So maybe this is what they need, you know, this is what they need to do. Did you see

00:13:42 ◼   ► the… there was a…

00:13:44 ◼   ► It won't save the person who gets in a high-speed car crash underneath the roller coaster, but

00:13:48 ◼   ► that's probably not gonna happen, right? Did you see that there was a an actual

00:13:52 ◼   ► fatal car accident that, did you see about this? There was, I think it was in

00:13:58 ◼   ► Nebraska, it was very sad, there were six young people in the car, they all

00:14:03 ◼   ► died, but it was the first time that this feature had been reported on as

00:14:09 ◼   ► actually doing the job, so like the emergency services only knew about this

00:14:17 ◼   ► because the an iPhone triggered it. Wow. So it's you know it's horrible absolutely

00:14:23 ◼   ► horrible thing to have happened but this is it in action like this is what this

00:14:29 ◼   ► feature is supposed to do this was an incredibly unfortunate incident but you

00:14:36 ◼   ► can like at least someone was taken to hospital because of it like they one of

00:14:41 ◼   ► the because a young woman she died in hospital but she probably never would

00:14:45 ◼   ► have made it to the hospital I would assume without this feature so you know in theory

00:14:51 ◼   ► it will do its thing but they have to deal with the roller coaster problem first and

00:14:57 ◼   ► this isn't going to be the only thing there's going to be lots of things like this I'm sure

00:15:02 ◼   ► that over time will they'll have to weed out this is part of it right but this is that

00:15:07 ◼   ► thing of if you if you work at Apple when you deploy a feature you're deploying it to

00:15:14 ◼   ► millions of people at once and then you have to work out very fast how to tweak it. I can't

00:15:20 ◼   ► even imagine what that is like, what that kind of scale is like. It's really a wild

00:15:26 ◼   ► kind of thing to think about.

00:15:28 ◼   ► It's the, and it's got multiple inputs, right? So it's trying to make a really good judgment.

00:15:32 ◼   ► I found a story about that Nebraska thing and it is, again, tragic and the fact that

00:15:38 ◼   ► nobody survived is awful, but it is interesting that the, there's like what happened with

00:15:44 ◼   ► or without the iPhone.

00:15:45 ◼   ► And the fact is they called 911 when somebody heard it

00:15:49 ◼   ► and went out and saw that there was a car crash.

00:15:51 ◼   ► And then they went back inside and they called 911.

00:15:54 ◼   ► And the 911 operator said, basically we already know

00:15:59 ◼   ► because they got the call from the iPhone 14.

00:16:02 ◼   ► Now at some point that's gonna save somebody's life,

00:16:07 ◼   ► but in this case it didn't.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Although I also there's cases where there's like,

00:16:12 ◼   ► even in a fatal accident in a remote location

00:16:16 ◼   ► where people don't hear it, right?

00:16:19 ◼   ► To get that warning, whether you can save them or not,

00:16:21 ◼   ► to know that, to send somebody out there

00:16:23 ◼   ► and find the car and all that is also a thing,

00:16:25 ◼   ► but it's not, the purpose of it is not retrieval, right?

00:16:30 ◼   ► It's rescue.

00:16:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it's interesting technology.

00:16:36 ◼   ► It feels like one of those things that like,

00:16:37 ◼   ► I understand it might cause issues with roller coasters

00:16:40 ◼   ► and the dispatchers at roller coasters.

00:16:42 ◼   ► But when you weigh these two things against each other,

00:16:44 ◼   ► there's a minor inconvenience compared to the fact

00:16:48 ◼   ► that this could save someone's life.

00:16:49 ◼   ► And will, if it hasn't already.

00:16:51 ◼   ► It probably hasn't, 'cause there would have been

00:16:53 ◼   ► an article about it like there was about this one.

00:16:56 ◼   ► But it's only a matter of time, right?

00:16:59 ◼   ► So, kind of fascinating stuff.

00:17:02 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by FitBond.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Between balancing work and family

00:17:08 ◼   ► in everything else you have going on in your life

00:17:10 ◼   ► is it can sometimes be hard to make fitness

00:17:12 ◼   ► a priority for you.

00:17:14 ◼   ► What you need is a program that will work with you

00:17:16 ◼   ► and not against you, and that's why you need Fitbud.

00:17:19 ◼   ► They have an algorithm that will learn about you

00:17:21 ◼   ► and your goals and your training ability

00:17:23 ◼   ► to craft a personalized exercise plan that is unique to you.

00:17:27 ◼   ► And that is super important because personal fitness

00:17:30 ◼   ► isn't just about doing what other people do.

00:17:33 ◼   ► You have to find the thing that works for you

00:17:34 ◼   ► because then you'll find the thing that works for your body

00:17:37 ◼   ► and you'll also find the thing that works for your motivation.

00:17:40 ◼   ► That's the big thing for me.

00:17:41 ◼   ► And what I like about Fitbud is it's not the same thing all the time.

00:17:44 ◼   ► And I'm not doing the same workouts all the time.

00:17:47 ◼   ► And you know, because I get bored of that,

00:17:49 ◼   ► or you can become more injury prone that way.

00:17:52 ◼   ► What I like is that Fitbud will analyze what I'm doing,

00:17:55 ◼   ► no matter how much I work out, and craft an exercise plan that fits me

00:18:00 ◼   ► and also fits my muscle recovery with a real balance of exercises.

00:18:04 ◼   ► and you think to yourself, oh new exercises all the time,

00:18:07 ◼   ► isn't that daunting?

00:18:08 ◼   ► No, because Fitbot has these really awesome video tutorials.

00:18:12 ◼   ► They're shot from multiple angles,

00:18:13 ◼   ► so every time you find a new exercise,

00:18:15 ◼   ► it shows you when you haven't done before

00:18:16 ◼   ► or when you want a reminder of,

00:18:18 ◼   ► you could just watch a simple video for how to do it

00:18:20 ◼   ► to make sure that you can learn everything really easily.

00:18:24 ◼   ► I love that Fitbot integrates with my Apple Watch

00:18:26 ◼   ► so I can see what I'm doing and I can make adjustments

00:18:28 ◼   ► maybe to the reps and sets if I want to.

00:18:30 ◼   ► It also integrates with Wear OS

00:18:32 ◼   ► and apps like Strava, Fitbit and into the Apple Health app as well.

00:18:40 ◼   ► Personalised training of this quality can be expensive. Fitbod is just $12.99 a month

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00:19:07 ◼   ► and you will get 25% off your membership. For 25% off your membership that is fitbod.me/upgrade.

00:19:14 ◼   ► Our thanks to fitbod for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Saddle up partner. It's a big day in Rumour Roundup town. We have finally, many people

00:19:27 ◼   ► have asked at the time that we were doing Rumour Roundup to have some chapter

00:19:31 ◼   ► artwork and I wasn't sure what to do and then over time it's like I want to do

00:19:37 ◼   ► something and as we did it more and more I kept thinking about Woody's Roundup

00:19:40 ◼   ► like that's where a lot of this comes from it's from Toy Story 2 and what I

00:19:45 ◼   ► like about Woody's Roundup and I've always liked is that it says Woody's

00:19:48 ◼   ► Roundup in like a lasso like it's written out and so I thought in my mind

00:19:52 ◼   ► what would it be like to have Rumour Roundup written out like this then I

00:19:56 ◼   ► I popped into my head, I've commissioned an artist

00:19:59 ◼   ► that I've been lucky to work with a bunch of times.

00:20:01 ◼   ► He's named Siege Roland.

00:20:02 ◼   ► He's done a bunch of poster work for me in the past

00:20:05 ◼   ► and some other projects.

00:20:07 ◼   ► He's an incredibly talented illustrator.

00:20:09 ◼   ► So I spoke to Siege and I told him the kind of thing

00:20:11 ◼   ► that I was thinking about.

00:20:12 ◼   ► And he created the brand new Rumor Roundup artwork

00:20:16 ◼   ► and I adore it.

00:20:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's pretty great.

00:20:20 ◼   ► We're like cowboys.

00:20:21 ◼   ► - We're cowboys and we're on the plains.

00:20:23 ◼   ► - You're scouting the distance

00:20:25 ◼   ► and I'm looking at a map.

00:20:27 ◼   ► - Yep, you're giving it, you're finding the way.

00:20:29 ◼   ► Map, it's, you're looking at Map World magazine.

00:20:32 ◼   ► - It is Map World.

00:20:34 ◼   ► There's a 16 camera iPhone room around the back

00:20:37 ◼   ► and there's a cactus in the background.

00:20:38 ◼   ► So I don't know if we're on the plains,

00:20:39 ◼   ► we may be out in the desert.

00:20:41 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that makes more sense.

00:20:44 ◼   ► We're in the desert, I guess.

00:20:46 ◼   ► - And our horse is looking at us like,

00:20:48 ◼   ► I can't believe I have to work with these guys.

00:20:50 ◼   ► - These chocolate heads.

00:20:52 ◼   ► They don't even know where they're going.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Also, we made a Room Around Up t-shirt.

00:20:58 ◼   ► So if you want to get the Room Around Up just like written out, I was looking at this, it

00:21:02 ◼   ► was too much to make that a full t-shirt that will cost about $1,000 a shirt with the colors

00:21:08 ◼   ► needed.

00:21:09 ◼   ► But the beautiful Room Around Up text is also available on our permanent merch store where

00:21:14 ◼   ► there are a selection of wonderful upgrade t-shirts available all the time, printed by

00:21:19 ◼   ► our friends over at Cotton Bureau.

00:21:21 ◼   ► So you can go and get that too.

00:21:23 ◼   ► If you want a Roomba Roundup t-shirt of your own, I can't wait to get one because I love

00:21:28 ◼   ► this so much.

00:21:29 ◼   ► And so, yeah, thank you to Siege for doing such fantastic work on this.

00:21:33 ◼   ► I'll put a link to their kind of portfolio in the chat too, in the show notes too, if

00:21:40 ◼   ► you want to check out their work.

00:21:42 ◼   ► But I do actually have some rumors for the Roundup.

00:21:44 ◼   ► Oh, good.

00:21:45 ◼   ► Thank goodness.

00:21:46 ◼   ► It's not just devolved into just custom art.

00:21:48 ◼   ► We're just talking about the artwork.

00:21:50 ◼   ► That's it.

00:21:51 ◼   ► every week. That's what we do. We just review our own artwork. No. According to display analyst Ross

00:21:57 ◼   ► Young, Apple is expecting to release their 27-inch mini LED display now in Q1 of 2023.

00:22:05 ◼   ► As a reminder, this display would feature ProMotion support. The expectation is it does not

00:22:12 ◼   ► replace the current Pro Display XDR, but would make for a nicer and less expensive upgrade for

00:22:18 ◼   ► for people who want something more

00:22:19 ◼   ► than the current studio display.

00:22:21 ◼   ► So they would have, this is the whole thing.

00:22:24 ◼   ► I want to set it up, start you with a question, right?

00:22:25 ◼   ► So you've got Pro Display, XDR,

00:22:28 ◼   ► which is the full-on big thing

00:22:31 ◼   ► with the stand that costs the money it costs,

00:22:34 ◼   ► and it's all like reference grade, right?

00:22:36 ◼   ► Then you've got the Studio Display,

00:22:39 ◼   ► which is the 27, is it 27 inches Studio Display?

00:22:43 ◼   ► I think so, right? - Yes.

00:22:44 ◼   ► - 27 inch display that, you know,

00:22:47 ◼   ► It's just a nice display.

00:22:49 ◼   ► But then you've got this third display,

00:22:51 ◼   ► which is 27 inches, so the same size,

00:22:54 ◼   ► but it's mini LED, so very high performance on the HDR level

00:22:58 ◼   ► and it's Pro Display, which the, so it's got, you know,

00:23:01 ◼   ► like the one can go up to 120 hertz.

00:23:04 ◼   ► - ProMotion, you mean?

00:23:05 ◼   ► - That's what I meant to say, ProMotion display,

00:23:07 ◼   ► which the Pro Display cannot do.

00:23:09 ◼   ► It does not have that feature.

00:23:10 ◼   ► So what I want to ask Jason is what on earth

00:23:12 ◼   ► do they call this product?

00:23:14 ◼   ► - All right, I have two suggestions.

00:23:17 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:23:18 ◼   ► - That I'm gonna put down.

00:23:19 ◼   ► One of them is to call it the ProMotion display.

00:23:25 ◼   ► So there's the Pro Display, Studio Display,

00:23:28 ◼   ► ProMotion Display, and Pro Display XDR.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Or ProMotion Display XDR if you really wanted to do it,

00:23:34 ◼   ► but like ProMotion Display.

00:23:35 ◼   ► And the other suggestion I have is

00:23:37 ◼   ► the 27 inch Pro Display XDR.

00:23:41 ◼   ► - I see where you're going with that.

00:23:42 ◼   ► You can understand why that's weird though, right?

00:23:44 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like,

00:23:45 ◼   ► it doesn't have the same feature set.

00:23:47 ◼   ► However-- - It does not have

00:23:48 ◼   ► the same feature set.

00:23:49 ◼   ► - I see where you're going.

00:23:51 ◼   ► - And it's much newer and there's a question,

00:23:52 ◼   ► will the Pro Display XDR continue to be sold

00:23:54 ◼   ► or updated or discontinued down the road?

00:24:00 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:24:01 ◼   ► But so those are my two options is one,

00:24:04 ◼   ► you could literally put ProMotion in the name, right?

00:24:06 ◼   ► 'Cause you've got a studio display,

00:24:07 ◼   ► that's the lower cost one.

00:24:09 ◼   ► So you could call it the ProMotion display.

00:24:11 ◼   ► You give it a new name, but like I think ProMotion display

00:24:15 ◼   ► or just call it Pro Display, you know,

00:24:18 ◼   ► 27 inch Pro Display XDR or 27 inch Pro Display.

00:24:22 ◼   ► You could do that.

00:24:23 ◼   ► You don't have to come up with a brand new name for it.

00:24:25 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:24:26 ◼   ► I do, so to throw a spanner in the works,

00:24:29 ◼   ► this display type exists, right?

00:24:33 ◼   ► So mini LED and ProMotion on both the iPad Pro

00:24:38 ◼   ► and the MacBook Pro and Apple calls them both

00:24:41 ◼   ► Liquid Retina XDR.

00:24:44 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:24:45 ◼   ► - Could you imagine,

00:24:46 ◼   ► do you imagine they could call it

00:24:48 ◼   ► the liquid retina XDR display?

00:24:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, they don't.

00:24:53 ◼   ► - I don't like that as a name to be honest.

00:24:54 ◼   ► - That is a display technology and they generally,

00:24:59 ◼   ► I mean, that's also an argument against promotion

00:25:01 ◼   ► 'cause that's just a feature.

00:25:03 ◼   ► So they could, they could do that.

00:25:06 ◼   ► It is also true,

00:25:07 ◼   ► and Zach in our member Discord pointed this out,

00:25:11 ◼   ► The iPad Pro 11 and 12.9 are called the same thing,

00:25:14 ◼   ► and 12.9 has ProMotion, Liquid Retina, blah, blah, blah,

00:25:19 ◼   ► and the 11 doesn't, and they're still just differentiated

00:25:21 ◼   ► by their size, right?

00:25:23 ◼   ► So you could get away with it, I think,

00:25:24 ◼   ► saying 27-inch Pro Display XDR,

00:25:27 ◼   ► and it's got different features.

00:25:29 ◼   ► But yeah, they could invent a third title.

00:25:34 ◼   ► I don't know, those are my guesses.

00:25:37 ◼   ► It's like, if you need to differentiate in some way,

00:25:40 ◼   ► ProMotion is a great way to do it

00:25:41 ◼   ► 'cause it's the only external display with ProMotion.

00:25:45 ◼   ► Or I would say just roll it into the Pro Display XDR line.

00:25:50 ◼   ► Those are my two suggestions.

00:25:51 ◼   ► - The 11 inch, it isn't called like

00:25:53 ◼   ► we're driving a display XDR on the 11 inch.

00:25:56 ◼   ► - I know, but the 11 inch iPad Pro is the 11 inch iPad Pro

00:25:58 ◼   ► and the 12.9 inch iPad Pro is just the 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

00:26:02 ◼   ► And the displays are very different,

00:26:04 ◼   ► but all they differentiate by is size.

00:26:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, but they are different product.

00:26:08 ◼   ► They're not just the display, you know what I mean?

00:26:10 ◼   ► I get the argument, I get the argument.

00:26:12 ◼   ► But the 30-inch Pro Display XDR and the 27-inch Pro Display XDR having different display technologies

00:26:18 ◼   ► is not necessarily a deal breaker.

00:26:20 ◼   ► I have two more name suggestions from the Discord.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Studio Display XDR and Studio Display Ultra.

00:26:28 ◼   ► Mmm, okay.

00:26:31 ◼   ► Pro Max.

00:26:32 ◼   ► Studio Display Ultra Pro Max.

00:26:34 ◼   ► Studio Display XDR is interesting, but I feel like it puts it too close to the Studio Display

00:26:38 ◼   ► Right? Like that it's much more impressive than that.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I guess that depends where it sits price-wise, right?

00:26:44 ◼   ► Also, the dynamic range isn't the only differentiator.

00:26:46 ◼   ► The problem with XDR as a title is that it is a dynamic range differentiator,

00:26:51 ◼   ► not a screen refresh differentiator, right? It's not.

00:26:57 ◼   ► And so, if you just put XDR in the name, it is matching up with the existing product.

00:27:04 ◼   ► but like if you tag XDR onto the end of the studio display, I don't know, you're

00:27:08 ◼   ► you are missing Promotion if you if you don't mention Promotion, I guess is what

00:27:13 ◼   ► I'm saying. Yes, but they don't call it Promotion. Promotion is not in the name

00:27:19 ◼   ► for the laptops either, it's just Liquid Retina XDR display. Yeah, I get it.

00:27:24 ◼   ► It's a it's an interesting marketing challenge for them. I would I would if

00:27:31 ◼   ► If I'm the marketing person,

00:27:33 ◼   ► I wanna place this in the category of the Pro Display XDR.

00:27:37 ◼   ► It's a Pro Display.

00:27:38 ◼   ► I don't wanna place it in the Studio Display category

00:27:41 ◼   ► 'cause we already have a Studio Display.

00:27:43 ◼   ► It's the same size.

00:27:46 ◼   ► Let's not, let's differentiate in the name

00:27:49 ◼   ► that this is the more expensive, higher quality display.

00:27:53 ◼   ► - What about Studio Display Pro XDR?

00:27:57 ◼   ► I'm only slightly joking.

00:27:59 ◼   ► I mean, sure, they could do that, sure.

00:28:03 ◼   ► - 'Cause I think it's complicated.

00:28:05 ◼   ► - Then you've got a Studio Pro and a Studio and a Pro?

00:28:08 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:28:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:28:12 ◼   ► - It's just very complicated because

00:28:14 ◼   ► they've already used XDR when they maybe shouldn't have.

00:28:19 ◼   ► - The Mac Studio, Mac Pro.

00:28:22 ◼   ► - Yep. - Studio Display, Pro Display.

00:28:24 ◼   ► I think that's the answer,

00:28:25 ◼   ► which is why it's probably Pro Display XDR.

00:28:29 ◼   ► or ProMotion Display, or ProMotion Display XDR,

00:28:32 ◼   ► something like that.

00:28:34 ◼   ► - It's very frustrating that they use Pro Display

00:28:36 ◼   ► as a name already.

00:28:38 ◼   ► - I wonder about the Pro Display XDR, right?

00:28:40 ◼   ► Like it doesn't, it's not gonna be as good

00:28:43 ◼   ► as this monitor, right?

00:28:44 ◼   ► Like, because we've seen from the, it's big,

00:28:48 ◼   ► and it's good, right?

00:28:49 ◼   ► But like it's using older tech to do its dynamic range.

00:28:52 ◼   ► It's got the like illumination zones

00:28:54 ◼   ► that are basically like a monitor behind the monitor

00:28:56 ◼   ► to do illumination.

00:28:58 ◼   ► And the mini LED is a much finer level of illumination.

00:29:03 ◼   ► And so you got that and then you've got ProMotion

00:29:07 ◼   ► and the Pro Display XDR doesn't do that.

00:29:10 ◼   ► So other than its size-

00:29:11 ◼   ► - 6K, it's 6K as well as the physical size difference,

00:29:15 ◼   ► it is a higher resolution.

00:29:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah,

00:29:18 ◼   ► they go hand in hand, I think.

00:29:19 ◼   ► But it's in a weird position where like, okay,

00:29:23 ◼   ► Apple made this like unnecessary high-end monitor.

00:29:27 ◼   ► That was a choice, but now they've made the studio display

00:29:31 ◼   ► and they're apparently making this display.

00:29:33 ◼   ► So why does that high-end monitor exist anymore

00:29:36 ◼   ► other than to be aspirational?

00:29:38 ◼   ► And that I think is the key question is like,

00:29:40 ◼   ► is that monitor long for this world?

00:29:42 ◼   ► And if it is, I kind of think like they're gonna need

00:29:44 ◼   ► to update it at some point, right?

00:29:46 ◼   ► Because it is, you already hear talking nerd circles

00:29:50 ◼   ► about how like the features that it lacks,

00:29:53 ◼   ► and it's a ridiculously expensive, in context,

00:29:56 ◼   ► Display, again, not if you're trying to sort of do

00:30:00 ◼   ► a cheap reference monitor for professional work,

00:30:03 ◼   ► but like if you're thinking of it as just a computer display

00:30:06 ◼   ► so like where does it go?

00:30:09 ◼   ► At some point it's irrelevant and do they intend for it

00:30:12 ◼   ► to remain relevant or do they intend to pull it out

00:30:16 ◼   ► of the product line because this new monitor

00:30:18 ◼   ► is gonna be great?

00:30:18 ◼   ► And I think that's one of the questions

00:30:20 ◼   ► that probably factors into the naming too

00:30:22 ◼   ► is like in the long run, is the Pro Display XDR

00:30:26 ◼   ► going away, and if so, what does that mean?

00:30:30 ◼   ► Are you free to just call this

00:30:32 ◼   ► the new 27-inch Pro Display XDR,

00:30:33 ◼   ► knowing that eventually it will be the standard bearer?

00:30:36 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:30:37 ◼   ► - 'Cause what I was just looking there is like,

00:30:39 ◼   ► I couldn't, what I couldn't remember is like,

00:30:41 ◼   ► are the Mac, does the MacBook Pro have a similar like,

00:30:45 ◼   ► 'cause obviously one of the big things

00:30:46 ◼   ► about the original Pro Display XDR

00:30:48 ◼   ► is the fact that it's a reference monitor, right?

00:30:51 ◼   ► And you can do that.

00:30:52 ◼   ► And they've referenced in the MacBook Pro

00:30:55 ◼   ► about color grading and reference modes

00:30:58 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff.

00:31:00 ◼   ► So like, 'cause what I was wondering is like,

00:31:02 ◼   ► will this new display also be like,

00:31:05 ◼   ► could it be considered a reference monitor?

00:31:07 ◼   ► And if it could, if it could,

00:31:09 ◼   ► then I actually think you might be right

00:31:11 ◼   ► that they just call it the 27 inch Pro Display XDR

00:31:14 ◼   ► with the idea that eventually they will have

00:31:17 ◼   ► a 30 inch Pro Display XDR or whatever, right?

00:31:22 ◼   ► - Well, they'll either update the one that's there

00:31:24 ◼   ► they'll remove it, right?

00:31:25 ◼   ► Like those are the choices, I think.

00:31:27 ◼   ► - Intriguing.

00:31:29 ◼   ► I am intrigued about that.

00:31:32 ◼   ► - This is why they pay those marketing people

00:31:33 ◼   ► the big money, right?

00:31:34 ◼   ► It's like, this is not an easy decision.

00:31:36 ◼   ► - Ross Young is also reporting that the next iPhone SE

00:31:42 ◼   ► will feature a 6.1 inch display with a notch.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Even though there is still suggestion

00:31:47 ◼   ► that there would not actually be any face ID technology

00:31:50 ◼   ► in that notch, the iPhone SE would continue with touch ID.

00:31:53 ◼   ► So a 6.1 inch display would significantly change

00:31:58 ◼   ► the physical dimensions of the iPhone SE product.

00:32:02 ◼   ► So a 6.1 inch display with a notch

00:32:05 ◼   ► is what the iPhone XR had.

00:32:08 ◼   ► So I wanna give some breakdowns here.

00:32:11 ◼   ► You'll have to excuse the fact that I mix up the units,

00:32:16 ◼   ► but I think it's actually easier to understand.

00:32:18 ◼   ► So the screen would be going from the iPhone SE,

00:32:21 ◼   ► which has a 4.7 inch screen to a 6.1 inch screen.

00:32:25 ◼   ► And then I took a look at iPhone 10R versus,

00:32:28 ◼   ► well, iPhone SE versus iPhone XR

00:32:30 ◼   ► in dimensions as they are currently.

00:32:33 ◼   ► The height, it would go from 138 to 150 millimeters,

00:32:38 ◼   ► and the width from 67 millimeters to 75 millimeters.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Now, of course, there could be some differences

00:32:46 ◼   ► in physical size between iPhone SE4 in this dimension

00:32:51 ◼   ► and the iPhone XR, but I expect it will be close enough.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Now, the thing that you must remember now

00:32:56 ◼   ► is when I give you these numbers,

00:32:57 ◼   ► is that the iPhone XR is physically larger

00:33:01 ◼   ► than the iPhone 14.

00:33:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:33:04 ◼   ► - So this would be, if this is true,

00:33:08 ◼   ► the age of the small iPhone is definitely over

00:33:12 ◼   ► at that point.

00:33:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, arguable, but yeah,

00:33:15 ◼   ► I think that's the idea.

00:33:16 ◼   ► I'll get to the arguable in a minute,

00:33:19 ◼   ► but the part that makes me do a double take

00:33:23 ◼   ► is still touch ID.

00:33:25 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like, all right, well,

00:33:27 ◼   ► so you're gonna put a notch up there,

00:33:29 ◼   ► but there's not gonna be most of the stuff in there.

00:33:31 ◼   ► It's gonna be mostly empty.

00:33:33 ◼   ► - Then I'm in Ireland.

00:33:35 ◼   ► - Well, and they're not gonna do that, right?

00:33:38 ◼   ► So why is that notch there?

00:33:41 ◼   ► I mean, I get it that you still need to have a place

00:33:44 ◼   ► for the camera and the proximity sensor and all that.

00:33:47 ◼   ► It's just, are you saving enough money

00:33:50 ◼   ► and is it necessary enough to differentiate

00:33:53 ◼   ► that you are going to, or have you gotten the feedback

00:33:58 ◼   ► that some people really, really, really, really want Touch ID

00:34:02 ◼   ► and are opposed to Face ID?

00:34:07 ◼   ► Because, you know, so you take Face ID out

00:34:10 ◼   ► and you put Touch ID on the button on the side, I'm assuming,

00:34:13 ◼   ► 'cause there's not gonna be any room

00:34:14 ◼   ► on the home screen for a button if it's the 10R design.

00:34:17 ◼   ► So that's weird, that's weird.

00:34:20 ◼   ► They could do it, they totally could do it.

00:34:22 ◼   ► I just am a little surprised that they wouldn't just say

00:34:24 ◼   ► like the XR that they're essentially upgrading the XR

00:34:27 ◼   ► and that it's got face ID and all that.

00:34:29 ◼   ► So if they pull face ID out and say, no, no, no, face ID,

00:34:32 ◼   ► it's far too expensive a feature for you,

00:34:34 ◼   ► little SE phone, big SE phone,

00:34:36 ◼   ► you get a touch ID sensor on the button.

00:34:38 ◼   ► That's just how you have to do it now.

00:34:40 ◼   ► That's, I don't know.

00:34:43 ◼   ► That part is disappointing, but you're right.

00:34:46 ◼   ► This is also the ultimate uncoupling of the concept

00:34:49 ◼   ► of an SE phone as a smaller iPhone versus cheaper iPhone.

00:34:54 ◼   ► I think it was always intended to be a cheaper iPhone,

00:34:57 ◼   ► but it was also the smaller iPhone,

00:34:59 ◼   ► and this is the end of that if this happens.

00:35:01 ◼   ► - I have my own theory about why they would

00:35:03 ◼   ► put the notch there, irrespective of what's inside,

00:35:07 ◼   ► is that then the iPhone SE won't look

00:35:09 ◼   ► like an old phone anymore.

00:35:11 ◼   ► - Oh, absolutely true.

00:35:12 ◼   ► It's so frustrating that they would have a notched phone

00:35:14 ◼   ► and not put the face ID sensors in it.

00:35:17 ◼   ► - It's like a fake notch.

00:35:18 ◼   ► They actually, it's all software.

00:35:21 ◼   ► - I mean, I had that thought too,

00:35:23 ◼   ► which is like, there's actually just a little cutout

00:35:25 ◼   ► for the one thing, but they draw the whole notch.

00:35:28 ◼   ► - Maybe though, you know, maybe.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Maybe, you know what, like it says it's a notch,

00:35:32 ◼   ► maybe it is a really small notch.

00:35:34 ◼   ► Maybe it is just for the camera.

00:35:37 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:35:38 ◼   ► - They haven't said what the dimensions of a notch would be.

00:35:40 ◼   ► It could just be just for a camera.

00:35:42 ◼   ► Like it would be much smaller.

00:35:43 ◼   ► - It could be.

00:35:44 ◼   ► I think that they'll also have the,

00:35:46 ◼   ► they'll have the proximity sensor up there

00:35:48 ◼   ► and they'll have, there's other sensors,

00:35:49 ◼   ► but not the infrared beam illuminator

00:35:53 ◼   ► and face ID sensor and all that stuff.

00:35:55 ◼   ► So here is, so for people who like me, like small phones,

00:36:00 ◼   ► here's my don't despair quite yet theory,

00:36:06 ◼   ► which is there is nothing stopping Apple

00:36:11 ◼   ► from releasing an iPhone mini every so often,

00:36:16 ◼   ► maybe even just in the spring, right?

00:36:19 ◼   ► Like they could, and I know it sounds weird,

00:36:21 ◼   ► but like there are lots of iPhones out there.

00:36:24 ◼   ► If Apple thinks that there is a small

00:36:26 ◼   ► but existing audience for the iPhone mini

00:36:29 ◼   ► and they're getting ready to clear,

00:36:31 ◼   ► let's say the iPhone 14 mini off the price list

00:36:34 ◼   ► in a year or two,

00:36:35 ◼   ► would Apple consider doing what they do with the SE

00:36:40 ◼   ► with the iPhone mini and just on every two or three years,

00:36:45 ◼   ► just do a spring release where there's a new mini phone.

00:36:48 ◼   ► Like if it's extra money and they've got an existing design,

00:36:51 ◼   ► 'cause we've seen repeatedly,

00:36:53 ◼   ► we're talking about the XR again now, right?

00:36:56 ◼   ► That Apple likes reusing designs.

00:36:58 ◼   ► So I would hold out at least a little bit of hope still.

00:37:01 ◼   ► I wouldn't have the hope dashed completely.

00:37:03 ◼   ► There is nothing stopping Apple

00:37:06 ◼   ► from occasionally releasing an iPhone mini.

00:37:08 ◼   ► I think what's stopping Apple from doing it every year

00:37:11 ◼   ► is that it doesn't make sense to do it every year.

00:37:13 ◼   ► But that doesn't mean they stop doing it all together

00:37:16 ◼   ► 'cause Apple really likes recycling old phone designs.

00:37:19 ◼   ► And if they can slap a new chip in that mini design

00:37:24 ◼   ► in the spring when the volumes are low,

00:37:27 ◼   ► they might yet do that someday.

00:37:30 ◼   ► That's my little thread of hope I'll put out there

00:37:32 ◼   ► for many, many fans.

00:37:37 ◼   ► I think the kind of canary in the coal mine for this will be what do they do with the

00:37:43 ◼   ► iPad mini.

00:37:46 ◼   ► Because I love my iPad mini.

00:37:48 ◼   ► It's the iPad I use the most.

00:37:50 ◼   ► My main computer at home, I use it more than my iPhone when I'm at home.

00:37:56 ◼   ► And I often think to myself, please let them make more than just one of these.

00:38:02 ◼   ► And like, please let them do something to it at least every two years, you know?

00:38:07 ◼   ► and I'll be happy.

00:38:08 ◼   ► - I think this is where Apple is right now,

00:38:11 ◼   ► and that's why I mentioned the mini phone

00:38:14 ◼   ► as a possibility is Apple is optimizing, right?

00:38:18 ◼   ► This is a Tim Cook's Apple.

00:38:20 ◼   ► It's huge now, by the way.

00:38:23 ◼   ► And so while you've got your flagship phones

00:38:25 ◼   ► that you wanna sell lots of,

00:38:27 ◼   ► they have a lot of money, they got a lot of audience.

00:38:30 ◼   ► Even some sub audiences are pretty decent sizes.

00:38:34 ◼   ► And while they clearly have shown

00:38:36 ◼   ► that while they have products

00:38:38 ◼   ► that they're not gonna update every year

00:38:39 ◼   ► or even every 18 months,

00:38:40 ◼   ► that they're worth keeping them around

00:38:43 ◼   ► to fulfill certain audience needs.

00:38:46 ◼   ► And the iPad mini is a good example of that.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And I would say, I think the iPhone mini might be too.

00:38:53 ◼   ► And it's the same kind of idea, which is,

00:38:55 ◼   ► look, we can't make a new one of these every year.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Like it doesn't make any sense,

00:38:59 ◼   ► but maybe every two or three years we'll do it.

00:39:02 ◼   ► And I think that that's obviously,

00:39:06 ◼   ► if it's your favorite product,

00:39:07 ◼   ► you want it to be there every year, obviously.

00:39:10 ◼   ► But not everybody, you know,

00:39:13 ◼   ► not everybody has that luxury.

00:39:16 ◼   ► Lots of people do, most people do,

00:39:17 ◼   ► because that's what makes it be your annual product release

00:39:21 ◼   ► is that it's very popular.

00:39:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, if most people didn't,

00:39:24 ◼   ► Apple are doing a very bad job, right?

00:39:26 ◼   ► Like if most people's favorite products is not refreshed.

00:39:30 ◼   ► - Low priority, refresh, that would be a really serious,

00:39:34 ◼   ► You gotta call the judgment into question of that executive

00:39:36 ◼   ► if they just are on some sort of vendetta.

00:39:39 ◼   ► Like, "I hate that, it sells so well, I hate it so much."

00:39:42 ◼   ► - They did do that with a Mac for a while, I think,

00:39:44 ◼   ► but we don't think about those times.

00:39:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I mean, they tried to do it

00:39:50 ◼   ► with the MacBook Air, right?

00:39:51 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, this MacBook Air,

00:39:53 ◼   ► it's really unappealing, nobody will buy it."

00:39:54 ◼   ► And they're like, "Sir, they're still buying it."

00:39:56 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, okay, I guess we have to update it."

00:39:59 ◼   ► Right?

00:40:00 ◼   ► So we'll see about it.

00:40:03 ◼   ► but I think they are in the same boat,

00:40:05 ◼   ► in a similar kind of circumstance

00:40:07 ◼   ► where they are edge products and how the SE is,

00:40:11 ◼   ► the Mini is at this point, I would say,

00:40:13 ◼   ► and the iPhone and the iPad, like these are all,

00:40:17 ◼   ► okay, let's throw in like maybe even ultimately

00:40:20 ◼   ► the Mac Mini, right?

00:40:22 ◼   ► These are maybe even the Mac Studio, who knows?

00:40:25 ◼   ► Kind of not necessarily the flagships,

00:40:28 ◼   ► but we'll get an update every so often

00:40:30 ◼   ► because there's enough reason to do so

00:40:31 ◼   ► when they already put in the work, right?

00:40:33 ◼   ► Like, they already designed these things.

00:40:35 ◼   ► So just kind of keep revising them enough to be modern

00:40:39 ◼   ► and so you can keep selling.

00:40:41 ◼   ► - And now that the EU has approved its new directive

00:40:44 ◼   ► to legally require device manufacturers to adopt USB-C,

00:40:48 ◼   ► Mark Gurman is reporting that as well as changes

00:40:50 ◼   ► to the iPhone line by about 2024,

00:40:53 ◼   ► which is when it comes into effect,

00:40:55 ◼   ► Apple will also transition AirPods and Mac accessories

00:40:59 ◼   ► away from Lightning to USB-C.

00:41:01 ◼   ► Mark says that Apple has previously been preparing

00:41:04 ◼   ► for these changes as they expected that this would be passed.

00:41:07 ◼   ► The iPhone 15, due in 2023,

00:41:10 ◼   ► will adopt USB-C across the line.

00:41:12 ◼   ► The base iPad will change to USB-C this year.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And Mark expects the Magic Mouse and Magic Keyboard

00:41:20 ◼   ► to switch over from Lightning to USB-C

00:41:23 ◼   ► when Apple announces its new Mac model for sale next year.

00:41:28 ◼   ► like for its new, its next Mac model,

00:41:31 ◼   ► which would be on sale next year sometime,

00:41:33 ◼   ► whether that be an iMac or a Mac Pro.

00:41:36 ◼   ► And then all three AirPods products, as I mentioned,

00:41:39 ◼   ► would go to USB-C as well.

00:41:40 ◼   ► But Mark goes on to say that he expects

00:41:44 ◼   ► the USB-C connector will be short lived.

00:41:47 ◼   ► Quote, "Apple's future is wireless

00:41:49 ◼   ► and that some version of the canceled AirPower Dream

00:41:52 ◼   ► from 2017 will still eventually come to fruition

00:41:56 ◼   ► well before a decade from now."

00:41:58 ◼   ► At some point in the next few years,

00:42:00 ◼   ► Apple will probably begin transitioning entirely

00:42:02 ◼   ► to inductive charging on the iPhone and iPad,

00:42:05 ◼   ► matching the Apple Watch.

00:42:07 ◼   ► I really hope they don't do that part, but that's just me.

00:42:11 ◼   ► - I mean, the difficulty here again is

00:42:13 ◼   ► what is Mark Gurman's take

00:42:17 ◼   ► and what is Mark Gurman's reporting,

00:42:19 ◼   ► and how current is he with his take versus his reporting?

00:42:23 ◼   ► - I feel like the reporting part is that first part, right?

00:42:26 ◼   ► Like these products will change, you know.

00:42:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, even then though, I think he's,

00:42:31 ◼   ► I'm not sure he knows for a fact

00:42:33 ◼   ► that the Magic Mouse and the keyboard will switch over.

00:42:35 ◼   ► He just sort of expects that it'll happen

00:42:37 ◼   ► and that the iMac is a good time.

00:42:39 ◼   ► And he's not wrong.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Like the iMac comes with them and that would be right.

00:42:46 ◼   ► Like his laptops don't come with them.

00:42:47 ◼   ► The Mac Mini doesn't come with them.

00:42:49 ◼   ► iMac comes with them.

00:42:50 ◼   ► So that would be the logical time

00:42:53 ◼   ► to update the Magic Mouse and keyboard

00:42:54 ◼   ► is as part of an iMac announcement.

00:42:56 ◼   ► - Makes sense. - Yeah, yeah.

00:42:57 ◼   ► - Not sure that that's his sources versus his intuition.

00:43:02 ◼   ► And I'll also point out, this is gonna happen,

00:43:05 ◼   ► like let's all be emotionally prepared for this.

00:43:07 ◼   ► Next year, the iPhone's gonna switch to USB-C

00:43:12 ◼   ► and we're gonna know that the lightning lasted

00:43:15 ◼   ► about as long as the docked connector lasted on the iPhone

00:43:18 ◼   ► and that this has been a good, or lasted in general,

00:43:21 ◼   ► and that this has been a good run

00:43:23 ◼   ► and that switching to USB-C is good

00:43:26 ◼   ► because everybody's already got USB-C,

00:43:28 ◼   ► but I am telling you get ready for all of the hot takes

00:43:32 ◼   ► about how dare Apple change their connector again.

00:43:34 ◼   ► And I say this because Mark Gurman's newsletter this week

00:43:37 ◼   ► was headlined Apple to Change Charger Again,

00:43:41 ◼   ► which by the way, charger, it's not really the charger,

00:43:44 ◼   ► it's the cable plug, right?

00:43:46 ◼   ► It's not the same, but that just,

00:43:48 ◼   ► and it's just like that's such a lazy

00:43:50 ◼   ► Apple to Change Charger Again.

00:43:51 ◼   ► That's the story here again,

00:43:53 ◼   ► 'cause they did it 11 years ago.

00:43:55 ◼   ► Again, it's happening, stupid Apple.

00:43:57 ◼   ► Anyway, of all the things to complain about,

00:44:00 ◼   ► this is, but people will do it.

00:44:02 ◼   ► So be ready is what I'm saying, be ready.

00:44:04 ◼   ► About the wireless stuff,

00:44:06 ◼   ► this is like one level down from the,

00:44:09 ◼   ► Apple will release a car that has no steering wheel

00:44:12 ◼   ► kind of statement, which is like,

00:44:14 ◼   ► I appreciate that there's somebody with a vision

00:44:17 ◼   ► who's like, everything will be wireless.

00:44:20 ◼   ► And on an infinite timescale,

00:44:22 ◼   ► Again, that's probably true, but as Apple scales up

00:44:25 ◼   ► its sensors and stuff, so that it ends up with these,

00:44:28 ◼   ► you know, 8K, 120 frames a second HDR video cameras

00:44:33 ◼   ► on iPhones and stuff in the future, the data is huge.

00:44:37 ◼   ► Is transferring that via wireless gonna be the way

00:44:42 ◼   ► you need to do it?

00:44:43 ◼   ► And is wireless gonna be fast enough to outpace

00:44:47 ◼   ► the increased voraciousness of our devices for data?

00:44:52 ◼   ► I am skeptical.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Also his statement that-

00:44:57 ◼   ► - 5G baby.

00:44:58 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:44:59 ◼   ► 5G.

00:45:00 ◼   ► - His statement that Apple will be transitioning

00:45:05 ◼   ► entirely to inductive charging on the iPhone and the iPad.

00:45:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:11 ◼   ► Entirely is fascinating, right?

00:45:14 ◼   ► Because there are lots of ergonomic situations

00:45:17 ◼   ► where, you know, bringing it,

00:45:19 ◼   ► you can, yeah, you can bring a charging puck

00:45:21 ◼   ► like you do with the Apple Watch.

00:45:22 ◼   ► I mean, I can see it, but it seems like,

00:45:25 ◼   ► at least today, that seems like they're really pushing it.

00:45:29 ◼   ► And I think about the iPad,

00:45:30 ◼   ► and I remember that question we had

00:45:31 ◼   ► about how would they do MagSafe on the iPad.

00:45:34 ◼   ► And I think like the iPad thing kind of only works

00:45:37 ◼   ► if you do MagSafe.

00:45:40 ◼   ► And I'm not sure based on the EU regulations,

00:45:43 ◼   ► if that's allowed, if you don't have a USB-C port, honestly.

00:45:48 ◼   ► Very weird.

00:45:49 ◼   ► 'Cause I think about my iPad and like,

00:45:50 ◼   ► Do I have to snap on a little magnetic puck somewhere

00:45:54 ◼   ► to charge my iPad?

00:45:55 ◼   ► And like, I don't know, it seems really weird.

00:45:57 ◼   ► - I don't think that the EU regulations

00:46:00 ◼   ► would allow them to do this.

00:46:02 ◼   ► - I don't think so. - At all.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Because the regulation that I've seen,

00:46:05 ◼   ► it seems very clear of like,

00:46:07 ◼   ► smartphones get USB-C connectors.

00:46:09 ◼   ► And the only devices that don't, right,

00:46:13 ◼   ► that like won't are devices where it's too small.

00:46:15 ◼   ► It's like smartwatches they're not gonna require it on.

00:46:18 ◼   ► - Right, so if it's like, well now what we have

00:46:20 ◼   ► we have a proprietary charging puck that you charge your phone with, instead of USB-C,

00:46:28 ◼   ► that everybody has to buy separately and only works with ours or whatever, or doesn't, it

00:46:33 ◼   ► works with other Qi charges, but still, I think it does cut against the exact premise

00:46:37 ◼   ► of the EU regulation, right? But I'm also just, I'm skeptical on a high level. Like,

00:46:41 ◼   ► this feels to me very much like the, you know, like the car without a steering wheel or the

00:46:48 ◼   ► iPod shuffle without any buttons, where there is an ideal here which is picture no ports.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And then I look at the state of affairs in terms of the technology for wireless charging

00:46:59 ◼   ► and data transfer and how people use these things and the fact that everything gets more

00:47:05 ◼   ► complicated if you can't connect to a device if it gets in distress, right?

00:47:11 ◼   ► Like it's the idea that you can't reset, you can't do a DFU currently on an iPhone without

00:47:16 ◼   ► plugging it into a computer.

00:47:17 ◼   ► It's like, well, I know that they could address that,

00:47:20 ◼   ► but it's way more complicated.

00:47:22 ◼   ► And are there magnetic pins that actually do transfer data,

00:47:25 ◼   ► but it's not a port?

00:47:26 ◼   ► Like there's a lot going on here.

00:47:29 ◼   ► And I just wanna, I'm expressing some skepticism

00:47:32 ◼   ► because this feels to me more like a pie in the sky

00:47:35 ◼   ► Apple dream than something that's real.

00:47:38 ◼   ► And the reason I say that is because I think if Apple

00:47:41 ◼   ► did this on its products, maybe not today,

00:47:43 ◼   ► but in the next couple of years,

00:47:44 ◼   ► it feels like a regression, right?

00:47:47 ◼   ► It makes their products worse.

00:47:49 ◼   ► And Apple's not above doing that.

00:47:51 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:47:52 ◼   ► Removing the headphone jack is arguably a regression.

00:47:54 ◼   ► They did it.

00:47:55 ◼   ► It turned out to not be that big a deal,

00:47:56 ◼   ► although it still was somewhat of a regression.

00:47:59 ◼   ► I'm just skeptical that the entirely inductive,

00:48:04 ◼   ► charged universe for all Apple products

00:48:07 ◼   ► is something that's realistic.

00:48:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:48:12 ◼   ► I'm like scanning over these documents.

00:48:14 ◼   ► is obviously too hard for me to try and get an idea

00:48:17 ◼   ► of right now, but I would be super surprised

00:48:21 ◼   ► if like, even if they could get away with Qi charging

00:48:24 ◼   ► as the common connector that's required.

00:48:28 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:48:29 ◼   ► - I don't think that's possible.

00:48:31 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:48:32 ◼   ► I mean, I love, look, having a vision like this is great.

00:48:35 ◼   ► And knowing where the technology is going in the future,

00:48:41 ◼   ► in terms of wireless and in terms of inductive

00:48:44 ◼   ► and having a vision, like that's all great.

00:48:49 ◼   ► I like it.

00:48:50 ◼   ► You should do that if you're Apple.

00:48:51 ◼   ► You should be thinking many moves ahead.

00:48:55 ◼   ► However, and I don't know all the insidery stuff

00:49:00 ◼   ► that they probably know, but I look at this

00:49:02 ◼   ► and I think this seems unrealistic

00:49:06 ◼   ► and more like an ideal than something

00:49:11 ◼   ► that everybody is asking for.

00:49:13 ◼   ► And the flip side of the,

00:49:15 ◼   ► oh, people just want a faster horse

00:49:16 ◼   ► and we gave them a car kind of argument is

00:49:19 ◼   ► when you give people something they don't want,

00:49:21 ◼   ► or you ask them to take a hit in terms of usability

00:49:24 ◼   ► for a benefit they don't see.

00:49:27 ◼   ► And Apple has done that in the last decade, a few times.

00:49:32 ◼   ► - I mean, honestly, see the headphone jack, right?

00:49:34 ◼   ► Like people are still upset about that, you know,

00:49:37 ◼   ► but I think it ended up turning out mostly okay

00:49:40 ◼   ► because AirPods are so good, but.

00:49:42 ◼   ► - Sure, but that's the, I mean, the challenge is

00:49:45 ◼   ► that charging infrastructure and the ergonomics of it

00:49:47 ◼   ► are a harder problem to solve, not insoluble,

00:49:50 ◼   ► but a harder problem to solve than something like,

00:49:53 ◼   ► like we made AirPods, so this problem is solved.

00:49:57 ◼   ► And then, you know, they did that with the,

00:50:00 ◼   ► with the butterfly keyboard and with USB-C

00:50:03 ◼   ► and in that whole era, that was very much an era of,

00:50:08 ◼   ► we're taking you to the future because we have a vision.

00:50:10 ◼   ► And everybody else was like, but I was fine

00:50:13 ◼   ► and this is really a regression and I don't like it.

00:50:17 ◼   ► And that is, again, we sort of are there now

00:50:22 ◼   ► with all of that, but they jumped in way too early

00:50:28 ◼   ► and users suffered.

00:50:29 ◼   ► So when I look at this, that's the kind of like

00:50:31 ◼   ► alarm signal that goes off in my head is

00:50:34 ◼   ► this feels like a mission statement.

00:50:37 ◼   ► And the danger with the mission statement is it's allowed to become real without a reality

00:50:44 ◼   ► check happening.

00:50:45 ◼   ► So we'll watch it.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Like I don't doubt Mark's thought that Apple really doesn't like ports and thinks that

00:50:51 ◼   ► they're not necessary.

00:50:53 ◼   ► But I think it's far more likely that magnetic connection, induction, all of those sorts

00:50:58 ◼   ► of things become preferred.

00:51:02 ◼   ► that's not the same as eventually there'll just be no ports. Right? That's not the same

00:51:10 ◼   ► thing.

00:51:11 ◼   ► No.

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00:53:13 ◼   ► Goodbye notebooks.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Oh no, what happened to them?

00:53:16 ◼   ► Where'd they go?

00:53:17 ◼   ► Hello laptops.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Oh, hello laptops!

00:53:20 ◼   ► We love to talk about namings and branding on this show.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I mean, witness earlier.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Witness most of this episode, actually.

00:53:29 ◼   ► 9to5Mac discovered over the weekend, or late last week it was,

00:53:34 ◼   ► that Apple appears to be removing reference to the word "notebook"

00:53:40 ◼   ► across their product lines and pages and marketing information,

00:53:45 ◼   ► support documents and replacing it with the word "laptop."

00:53:49 ◼   ► So I wanted to ask you, Jason, kind of roughly how long have Apple been calling their products "notebooks"?

00:53:56 ◼   ► I've forever, right? Because the PowerBook had it embedded in the...

00:54:05 ◼   ► I mean, Macintosh Portable was a portable computer, right?

00:54:09 ◼   ► Was not a laptop.

00:54:11 ◼   ► It's more like you drag it to another desk, right?

00:54:16 ◼   ► It was not to go in your lap.

00:54:17 ◼   ► But the Power Book in 1991 was a notebook,

00:54:22 ◼   ► hence Power Book.

00:54:25 ◼   ► That was the whole metaphor being used there.

00:54:27 ◼   ► The idea that this was a computer

00:54:30 ◼   ► in the shape of a paper notebook, right?

00:54:33 ◼   ► That it was the size roughly of a notebook.

00:54:37 ◼   ► In the early days, it was very thick notebook.

00:54:40 ◼   ► but when you open it up, oh, look, it's a computer

00:54:42 ◼   ► and you can do all sorts of things with it.

00:54:45 ◼   ► And what came into prevalence, of course,

00:54:47 ◼   ► is this idea of a laptop,

00:54:50 ◼   ► that it's a computer that's so small

00:54:51 ◼   ► you can set it in your lap.

00:54:53 ◼   ► And that metaphor seems to have won the day

00:54:55 ◼   ► almost everywhere.

00:54:56 ◼   ► We used to have arguments about this

00:54:58 ◼   ► and use them pretty interchangeably, I think,

00:55:00 ◼   ► at Macworld back in the day.

00:55:02 ◼   ► But clearly when you think about it for more than a minute

00:55:05 ◼   ► and you say the words out loud to yourself,

00:55:08 ◼   ► notebook, it's like, why is that?

00:55:12 ◼   ► What is, right?

00:55:14 ◼   ► It's just like, no, it's wrong.

00:55:16 ◼   ► Like it's not notebook, a notebook computer?

00:55:21 ◼   ► That actually, you know, Myke,

00:55:23 ◼   ► that thing we talked about earlier,

00:55:25 ◼   ► the Kindle whatever with a pen on it, that's a notebook.

00:55:29 ◼   ► - I mean, an iPad is closer to be, especially, right?

00:55:33 ◼   ► 'Cause they, if you think of the iPad Pro

00:55:35 ◼   ► or the iPad Air now, they're like part built

00:55:39 ◼   ► for this pencil to go on the side of the thing.

00:55:41 ◼   ► It's all flat and it's got a charging thing.

00:55:43 ◼   ► That's a notebook computer.

00:55:45 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:55:46 ◼   ► - Not laptops.

00:55:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, so, and I think, I mean, it actually,

00:55:51 ◼   ► it's funny that they're doing this

00:55:52 ◼   ► 'cause this is one of those words that really has,

00:55:55 ◼   ► I know it doesn't come from his era,

00:55:57 ◼   ► but like it gives me like Steve Jobs vibes, right?

00:56:02 ◼   ► Like that that was, 'cause he would do that, right?

00:56:04 ◼   ► he would occasionally like embrace certain terms

00:56:07 ◼   ► and you'd be like, well, that's a weird way to put it, Steve,

00:56:09 ◼   ► but that's how Steve does it.

00:56:10 ◼   ► So we're all gonna call them apps now

00:56:12 ◼   ► and that's just how it's gonna be.

00:56:14 ◼   ► And this feels a little like that too.

00:56:17 ◼   ► And I wonder who it was who finally inside Apple

00:56:20 ◼   ► was like, everybody, we have to stop calling these things

00:56:23 ◼   ► notebooks, nobody does.

00:56:25 ◼   ► And it probably, you know what probably won the day?

00:56:28 ◼   ► Probably it was like a search engine optimization expert

00:56:32 ◼   ► who said, "People don't search for notebook!"

00:56:34 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:56:36 ◼   ► And they're like, "They search for laptop,

00:56:38 ◼   ► we're losing sales, we're losing search hits

00:56:40 ◼   ► because we're using the wrong term."

00:56:42 ◼   ► And finally somebody at Apple said,

00:56:45 ◼   ► "All right, okay, it's fine."

00:56:49 ◼   ► You know, that's my guess.

00:56:52 ◼   ► - Laptop is just, I mean, about,

00:56:56 ◼   ► even then it's like laptop.

00:56:59 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:57:00 ◼   ► Like, the people, laptop,

00:57:04 ◼   ► do you think people use their laptops

00:57:06 ◼   ► mostly on their laps anymore?

00:57:08 ◼   ► - No, I mean, no, I mean, the name is dumb.

00:57:11 ◼   ► And I should say MacBook is still the name, right?

00:57:13 ◼   ► So notebook, MacBook, it's still book there.

00:57:17 ◼   ► Although you could argue the MacBook notebook is dumb, right?

00:57:20 ◼   ► It's using MacBook laptop.

00:57:21 ◼   ► We have a, we're not doubling up on the metaphor.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Laptop, I mean, it's, okay.

00:57:30 ◼   ► for a very long time now,

00:57:32 ◼   ► most Macs have been laptops.

00:57:36 ◼   ► - Yes. - So,

00:57:38 ◼   ► there is a larger issue here, which is,

00:57:42 ◼   ► I refer sometimes to desktop computers, right?

00:57:46 ◼   ► Desktop computers.

00:57:48 ◼   ► And sometimes they're, you know, under your desktop

00:57:50 ◼   ► or on your floor or whatever.

00:57:52 ◼   ► But the desktop laptop parallel

00:57:56 ◼   ► is sort of what we're getting at here,

00:57:58 ◼   ► that there are two kinds of computers,

00:58:00 ◼   ► the kinds that are portable

00:58:02 ◼   ► and the kinds that are not portable.

00:58:04 ◼   ► But the truth is the majority of Macs,

00:58:06 ◼   ► the definitive Mac for the last decade

00:58:08 ◼   ► has been the MacBook Air, I would say.

00:58:10 ◼   ► It's probably the most best-selling laptop

00:58:12 ◼   ► and best-selling computer

00:58:13 ◼   ► that they've sold over the last decade.

00:58:16 ◼   ► So isn't it just a computer?

00:58:18 ◼   ► But we need some other word to,

00:58:22 ◼   ► at least sometimes, to signify the difference

00:58:24 ◼   ► between a computer that comes with its own display

00:58:26 ◼   ► and a battery and is small enough that you can fold it up

00:58:29 ◼   ► and take it somewhere.

00:58:30 ◼   ► And the ones like my Mac studio, which you can't.

00:58:34 ◼   ► I mean, you can't fold it up.

00:58:37 ◼   ► You could take it somewhere else.

00:58:39 ◼   ► It doesn't have a screen though.

00:58:40 ◼   ► It doesn't have any of those other things.

00:58:41 ◼   ► It doesn't have its own keyboard, doesn't have a battery.

00:58:43 ◼   ► So we're left with desktop laptop.

00:58:47 ◼   ► That's just sort of where we are is that over there

00:58:50 ◼   ► is a desktop over here is the laptop.

00:58:51 ◼   ► But yeah, in terms of meaning, all it really means is

00:58:54 ◼   ► you could put it on your lap.

00:58:56 ◼   ► - If you wanted to. - And use it.

00:58:58 ◼   ► If you wanted to, and people do,

00:59:00 ◼   ► but that's not the only place they use them, but you could.

00:59:03 ◼   ► - Also with macOS Ventura, this is from a 95 Mac article,

00:59:07 ◼   ► a newly set up MacBook Air or MacBook Pro

00:59:11 ◼   ► will now be called blank laptop by default.

00:59:15 ◼   ► It used to be blank MacBook Air or blank MacBook Pro.

00:59:19 ◼   ► Now that's weirder.

00:59:20 ◼   ► - Right, right. - Right?

00:59:22 ◼   ► - So you get a brand new MacBook Air and set it up

00:59:25 ◼   ► and it's gonna be called Myke's laptop.

00:59:27 ◼   ► - Rather than Myke's MacBook Air.

00:59:29 ◼   ► - Myke's MacBook Air.

00:59:30 ◼   ► What's next?

00:59:32 ◼   ► Are they gonna change the mail signature

00:59:33 ◼   ► to be sent from my smartphone?

00:59:35 ◼   ► - Sent from my, but like that I would have,

00:59:38 ◼   ► that is like, if you would have said to me,

00:59:40 ◼   ► they're gonna change the default thing in Macos Ventura,

00:59:43 ◼   ► that is the least likely one that I would have picked.

00:59:46 ◼   ► I would naturally have assumed

00:59:48 ◼   ► they would just call it Myke's MacBook.

00:59:50 ◼   ► Like they're all just called MacBooks, right?

00:59:52 ◼   ► - Right.

00:59:53 ◼   ► - Instead of laptop.

00:59:54 ◼   ► It's like, why would you do that?

00:59:56 ◼   ► That is a very strange decision to make.

00:59:59 ◼   ► I feel like it doesn't match up

01:00:01 ◼   ► with these other things in a way.

01:00:03 ◼   ► I find that very odd.

01:00:05 ◼   ► - I do too.

01:00:05 ◼   ► It's weird.

01:00:07 ◼   ► It's weird.

01:00:08 ◼   ► - Now I wanna know, what happens if you set up an iMac?

01:00:11 ◼   ► Is it like Myke's computer?

01:00:13 ◼   ► Like what is that called?

01:00:15 ◼   ► Myke's personal computation device?

01:00:19 ◼   ► - Possibly.

01:00:19 ◼   ► So here's my guess.

01:00:22 ◼   ► I'm just gonna throw out a guess here.

01:00:23 ◼   ► not knowing the real answer, but why not?

01:00:25 ◼   ► It's a podcast.

01:00:26 ◼   ► I wonder if there was a complaint

01:00:31 ◼   ► from somebody who administers a lot of devices

01:00:34 ◼   ► about the MacBook Air, MacBook Pro thing,

01:00:37 ◼   ► especially since when you migrate, it keeps the name.

01:00:40 ◼   ► So you migrate from a MacBook Air to a MacBook Pro,

01:00:44 ◼   ► and it keeps the name MacBook Air,

01:00:46 ◼   ► even though it's not a MacBook Air anymore.

01:00:49 ◼   ► This is like how my iPhone 13 mini,

01:00:53 ◼   ► when I migrated to the iPhone 14 Pro, it said, you know,

01:00:56 ◼   ► 13 mini, like that's not your name,

01:00:59 ◼   ► but it doesn't know that.

01:01:00 ◼   ► By the way, that would be smart

01:01:01 ◼   ► if they were smart enough to rename.

01:01:03 ◼   ► - Why don't they do that? - If you did use a product name

01:01:05 ◼   ► to rename it and they don't do that.

01:01:07 ◼   ► - So I set up my new AirPods Pro and it just said,

01:01:11 ◼   ► Myke's AirPods Pro, parentheses two,

01:01:14 ◼   ► well, not just actually two, which is what it is.

01:01:17 ◼   ► Why could you not work that out?

01:01:19 ◼   ► You know, like I do find that annoying.

01:01:21 ◼   ► or like you say, set up a new iPhone,

01:01:23 ◼   ► and now it's called Myke's iPhone 13 Pro Max 2.

01:01:27 ◼   ► - 2.

01:01:28 ◼   ► - You know what you are.

01:01:30 ◼   ► Nobody wants to keep the name, right?

01:01:32 ◼   ► If I've not changed the name,

01:01:34 ◼   ► you should change it for me, right?

01:01:37 ◼   ► - Especially if you can use, you know,

01:01:39 ◼   ► some of your fancy on-device intelligence

01:01:41 ◼   ► to recognize that this is literally the name

01:01:43 ◼   ► of the product that I was on before,

01:01:45 ◼   ► and therefore, when I come to a new product,

01:01:47 ◼   ► I should change it to the name of the new product.

01:01:49 ◼   ► This isn't hard.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Considering that you do change it, right?

01:01:52 ◼   ► Like you do change it by adding the number at the end.

01:01:55 ◼   ► So you do feel like it needs to be changed, right?

01:01:58 ◼   ► So you're changing it.

01:02:00 ◼   ► If you feel like it needs to be changed

01:02:01 ◼   ► and are therefore changing it,

01:02:03 ◼   ► why not actually make it correct?

01:02:05 ◼   ► That's a very strange one.

01:02:07 ◼   ► But yeah, so there you go.

01:02:08 ◼   ► The laptops now, no more notebooks.

01:02:11 ◼   ► - No more notebooks except the MacBook itself.

01:02:14 ◼   ► - Maybe it's gonna be called MacTop.

01:02:16 ◼   ► MacTop, MacLap.

01:02:18 ◼   ► - Laptop Pro Max.

01:02:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:02:20 ◼   ► - Lap Mac Pro Max.

01:02:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:02:23 ◼   ► - Lap Book Pro Max.

01:02:27 ◼   ► Yeah, the Lap Book Air.

01:02:28 ◼   ► - Oh, they call it Laptop Pro Max

01:02:30 ◼   ► and it's M-A-C-S at the end.

01:02:32 ◼   ► It's Laptop Pro Max.

01:02:34 ◼   ► - Oh, I like it.

01:02:35 ◼   ► So they're all Macs.

01:02:36 ◼   ► So it would be like Laptop Air Max, M-A-C-S.

01:02:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:02:40 ◼   ► - Air Max 95.

01:02:42 ◼   ► - Woo, woo.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Well, I feel like somebody at Apple was listening,

01:02:48 ◼   ► a recruiter at Apple was listening to this episode

01:02:49 ◼   ► for some reason, and we're like saying,

01:02:51 ◼   ► these two gents really know what they're doing.

01:02:53 ◼   ► We should hire them to work on our product naming team.

01:02:56 ◼   ► And they just got to that last one minute

01:02:58 ◼   ► and they're like, stop and throw away trash.

01:03:01 ◼   ► - We were so close. - These guys are dummies.

01:03:03 ◼   ► - We were so close. - We were almost in,

01:03:05 ◼   ► but we are back out.

01:03:06 ◼   ► - So close, but yes, so far.

01:03:08 ◼   ► I have some more good news.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:03:12 ◼   ► - The Matter 1.0 standard has finally been finalized.

01:03:17 ◼   ► So it's really taken its time.

01:03:21 ◼   ► - It takes a lot of effort to get these tech giants to agree

01:03:24 ◼   ► on home automation standards, I guess.

01:03:29 ◼   ► - Sure, I mean--

01:03:30 ◼   ► - But we did it.

01:03:30 ◼   ► We did it everybody.

01:03:32 ◼   ► - And also this is one of those things

01:03:34 ◼   ► where very complicated and you only get a first shot

01:03:38 ◼   ► at first impression, so make it right.

01:03:41 ◼   ► I wanted to give everyone a bit of a refresh

01:03:43 ◼   ► 'cause I did some reading today about Matter,

01:03:45 ◼   ► about kind of what it's gonna be doing

01:03:47 ◼   ► and what we can expect, because it was one of those things

01:03:50 ◼   ► where I was personally kind of waiting until this point

01:03:53 ◼   ► to really spend a lot of time reading about it,

01:03:55 ◼   ► because it felt like it could change or just never happen.

01:03:59 ◼   ► I was wondering, is matter ever actually going to happen?

01:04:02 ◼   ► Well, it is.

01:04:03 ◼   ► So it is officially launching on November 3rd,

01:04:05 ◼   ► and there's gonna be this event of some description.

01:04:08 ◼   ► I don't think anything particularly exciting will be there,

01:04:11 ◼   ► but it's like the matter organization

01:04:14 ◼   ► is inviting people of the media to go to an event.

01:04:17 ◼   ► New devices can be sold as of now.

01:04:32 ◼   ► Existing devices can now be upgraded to support MATA.

01:04:35 ◼   ► Many will be upgraded.

01:04:45 ◼   ► iOS 16.1 is where matter support will happen

01:04:48 ◼   ► in the home app, including the,

01:04:51 ◼   ► now do you remember Jason, Apple said that the home app

01:04:55 ◼   ► will have underlying changes to support matter?

01:04:59 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:05:00 ◼   ► - This is because of what is called a matter controller.

01:05:04 ◼   ► These are-- - I tried something

01:05:06 ◼   ► out of Star Trek. - Yes.

01:05:07 ◼   ► These are effectively hubs, bridges, that kind of thing.

01:05:12 ◼   ► You know like how you need like a hub to be able to get some things to talk to each other

01:05:16 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:05:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:18 ◼   ► Some devices can become matter controllers.

01:05:21 ◼   ► Google, Amazon, their smarts, some of their smart speakers will be updated to be controllers.

01:05:26 ◼   ► The HomePod mini can be a matter controller.

01:05:29 ◼   ► A HomeKit hub is the best analog here.

01:05:33 ◼   ► Kind of.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Because this is the separate part.

01:05:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:37 ◼   ► Apps can be matter controllers.

01:05:40 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be tied to a physical piece of hardware that stays in your home.

01:05:48 ◼   ► Because the matter controller is designed to create the links between the devices and

01:05:55 ◼   ► also set any automations.

01:05:58 ◼   ► So when Apple were talking about the underlying changes to the home app, what they're talking

01:06:05 ◼   ► about is making the home app a matter controller.

01:06:08 ◼   ► So you actually don't necessarily need to buy any hardware that stays in your home specifically

01:06:16 ◼   ► for this.

01:06:17 ◼   ► - The dream here is you connect everything on Matter and you set up an automation that

01:06:24 ◼   ► says when device A fires, device B does something else.

01:06:28 ◼   ► And device A and device B can see each other and talk to each other.

01:06:33 ◼   ► So you don't need to have another device watching device A and then telling device B what to

01:06:38 ◼   ► do. Device A says to device B directly "I did this" and device B says "oh well then

01:06:44 ◼   ► I do this" right?

01:06:46 ◼   ► Yeah this is a great summary of that which I enjoyed from the Verge. With Matter instead

01:06:51 ◼   ► of using two or three separate apps and connecting their cloud service backends to get your smart

01:06:56 ◼   ► plug to turn on your lamp when you unlock your front door, that plug and lock can now

01:07:00 ◼   ► talk directly to each other and you can set up automation using one Matter controller

01:07:05 ◼   ► app.

01:07:06 ◼   ► So you set up the links, but then the devices talk to each other.

01:07:11 ◼   ► And it's actually all of this is done without the requirement of the internet at all.

01:07:16 ◼   ► Matter all works locally by design.

01:07:19 ◼   ► It does not require a connection to the internet.

01:07:22 ◼   ► It is possible for devices to be internet controllable if desired by the user, but it

01:07:27 ◼   ► is not a necessary part of the specification.

01:07:29 ◼   ► - Right, so like Apple is undoubtedly adding

01:07:32 ◼   ► this whole home app layer with other Apple devices

01:07:37 ◼   ► where you can continue to do what you can do now,

01:07:39 ◼   ► which is control them outside of your home.

01:07:42 ◼   ► But you don't have to do that.

01:07:44 ◼   ► - No, you don't have to do that.

01:07:45 ◼   ► And this is really, it is kind of like networking based.

01:07:50 ◼   ► So if you have Thread devices,

01:07:53 ◼   ► you will need a Matter Thread hub to get that all to work.

01:07:57 ◼   ► 'cause Thread is all just like direct control,

01:07:59 ◼   ► but it's networking, but not internet,

01:08:02 ◼   ► if that makes sense, right?

01:08:03 ◼   ► So like it's using networking like equipment,

01:08:06 ◼   ► where Thread is just this local radio system.

01:08:10 ◼   ► Now Thread devices don't work naturally with--

01:08:13 ◼   ► - The HomePod Mini has a Thread radio, right?

01:08:15 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:08:15 ◼   ► - So I would imagine that the HomePod Mini

01:08:16 ◼   ► would be an example of a device that could do that,

01:08:18 ◼   ► that could talk to Thread devices

01:08:20 ◼   ► and act as the matter controller.

01:08:21 ◼   ► - I will say in theory.

01:08:23 ◼   ► - In theory.

01:08:24 ◼   ► - I think Apple need to say that it will do that first.

01:08:26 ◼   ► But yes, it may be a device like a HomePod Mini

01:08:31 ◼   ► or some kind of Google device will work

01:08:34 ◼   ► and or the company that you use

01:08:37 ◼   ► that are all thread related might make a hub

01:08:39 ◼   ► and then that will work.

01:08:41 ◼   ► Or the company will just be able to update the software on it

01:08:44 ◼   ► and they can make it work

01:08:45 ◼   ► if it has some kind of radio in it.

01:08:47 ◼   ► But thread is maybe one of the ones

01:08:49 ◼   ► which is a little bit left out here

01:08:52 ◼   ► of the idea of not needing new hardware.

01:08:54 ◼   ► you may need something to get those things to connect.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Which is a shame because up until this point,

01:08:59 ◼   ► Thread was considered the easiest way to do all this stuff.

01:09:03 ◼   ► Because it was so low level.

01:09:04 ◼   ► But, you know, you may need it, but you may not,

01:09:07 ◼   ► depending on the other devices that you have in your home

01:09:10 ◼   ► that could work as a controller.

01:09:12 ◼   ► Like in theory, that might be where you want something

01:09:15 ◼   ► like a HomePod mini or one of the Google Nest Hub things.

01:09:20 ◼   ► Where it's like that is a physical thing

01:09:22 ◼   ► which is acting as that bridge, right?

01:09:25 ◼   ► So when your phone isn't there, it might still work.

01:09:28 ◼   ► That's conjecture on my part.

01:09:29 ◼   ► I don't know the answer to that, but.

01:09:31 ◼   ► This launch spec only will cover a limited set

01:09:35 ◼   ► of device types in Matter 1.0.

01:09:38 ◼   ► These are light bulbs and light switches,

01:09:41 ◼   ► HVAC controls, smart shades, thermostats, smart sensors,

01:09:47 ◼   ► I assume that's like presence sensors and stuff,

01:09:50 ◼   ► locks and media devices including TVs. Support for devices like vacuums and cameras

01:09:58 ◼   ► is being developed for later versions of the specification.

01:10:02 ◼   ► My understanding, but I don't know this for sure, is that updates to the spec are not going to be

01:10:11 ◼   ► like a huge deal, right? But it's going to be a thing that just over time will add more and more

01:10:17 ◼   ► stuff. So that's kind of where we are with matter right now. I'm pretty excited

01:10:23 ◼   ► about it. A lot of companies are talking about the devices that are going to be

01:10:27 ◼   ► updated. Some devices that you already own will be able to be

01:10:32 ◼   ► updated to matter. Some you may need to get a newer model. Like for example I

01:10:36 ◼   ► think Nest are adding support, a matter support to their thermostats, but I think

01:10:40 ◼   ► only on the newest model. But what that would mean though if you have that

01:10:46 ◼   ► model is in theory you would be able to ask your HomePod to change your temperature and

01:10:53 ◼   ► it will change the temperature of your Nest thermostat, which is exactly what people want.

01:10:59 ◼   ► That is why this exists.

01:11:01 ◼   ► I run Homebridge mostly so I can do this one thing, which is connect Nest to the Home app.

01:11:07 ◼   ► So that may be enough actually for me to buy another Nest.

01:11:11 ◼   ► Now, there are other thermostats out there.

01:11:14 ◼   ► I like the Nest.

01:11:15 ◼   ► I really do.

01:11:16 ◼   ► I prefer it to the Ecobee,

01:11:18 ◼   ► mostly because I like how it looks, honestly.

01:11:23 ◼   ► And that might be enough to do it.

01:11:24 ◼   ► But that's the dream, right?

01:11:25 ◼   ► Is that all these things that have been like,

01:11:27 ◼   ► well, you can't do Amazon things

01:11:31 ◼   ► and Google things and Apple things in the home.

01:11:33 ◼   ► And guess what?

01:11:34 ◼   ► I have all three of those things in my home.

01:11:37 ◼   ► And theoretically, this will allow you to do that.

01:11:40 ◼   ► - Or you have a device manufacturer

01:11:42 ◼   ► that's gone all in on one thing.

01:11:44 ◼   ► Well, now they can talk to each other.

01:11:45 ◼   ► So like, you know, I use Eve products in the studio here

01:11:50 ◼   ► and they are like basically all in on HomeKit.

01:11:52 ◼   ► But now Eve are going to be integrating Matter.

01:11:55 ◼   ► So I would be able to get my Eve radiator,

01:11:59 ◼   ► like controller devices to maybe talk to some kind of sensor

01:12:03 ◼   ► I buy from another company,

01:12:05 ◼   ► rather than it necessarily needing to all be HomeKit.

01:12:09 ◼   ► And one of the things that's worth noting is,

01:12:12 ◼   ► what the Matter spec will allow

01:12:14 ◼   ► for some kind of communication automation stuff between these devices.

01:12:18 ◼   ► It does not remove entirely the need for apps.

01:12:25 ◼   ► There might be some features of a Nest thermostat that you still need to use the Nest app to

01:12:30 ◼   ► configure, but once it's configured or updated or whatever, the day-to-day control can be

01:12:38 ◼   ► more automated and you can use whatever you want to control it.

01:12:41 ◼   ► it doesn't completely remove the requirement to use this app, use that app.

01:12:48 ◼   ► My ancient Philips Hue bridge will apparently get a software update to support Matter.

01:12:53 ◼   ► Yep, Philips are all in. And this is the benefit where some, if you do have a product which

01:13:00 ◼   ► uses bridges, like in Philips have always had bridges, it's in fact the only way that

01:13:04 ◼   ► Hue devices work is with a bridge, they are able to just update the bridge and then all

01:13:09 ◼   ► the light bulbs will be able to, because they will just talk to the bridge and so that's

01:13:13 ◼   ► great but not all bridge based products will support this but Philips are all in on this

01:13:18 ◼   ► which I'm very happy about and I actually think is not a surprise to Philips because

01:13:21 ◼   ► they've they've always been pretty good with this kind of stuff. So yeah, Joe in the discord

01:13:27 ◼   ► is asking this is kind of what I was talking about, has anyone seen if Matter has something

01:13:31 ◼   ► for how it handles firmware updates for devices? That's the kind of thing you will need third

01:13:36 ◼   ► party apps for. You still need the app for those devices to do things like updates. To

01:13:41 ◼   ► my knowledge, Matter has no support for any of that. It's not an OS. It's not like this

01:13:49 ◼   ► replaces Google Nest or whatever. By and large, you as the user will never see Matter other

01:13:55 ◼   ► than knowing when you buy a product, you want to see the Matter logo on it. I don't even

01:14:00 ◼   ► think there's like a matter app like it's it's just a technology but it's not

01:14:04 ◼   ► about replacing anything specifically it's more about just providing this

01:14:10 ◼   ► open source framework that all of these devices can talk to each other for I'm

01:14:15 ◼   ► super excited about the future of home automation because of this like this is

01:14:21 ◼   ► exactly what we need this is the I this the market has one out here which is a

01:14:26 ◼   ► a bananas thing because this never happens.

01:14:28 ◼   ► The reason this has happened is that

01:14:31 ◼   ► all of these companies came to,

01:14:34 ◼   ► like basically at the same time, right?

01:14:36 ◼   ► Like Google and Amazon, Philips, you know, like Apple,

01:14:40 ◼   ► they all came at the same time with this idea.

01:14:43 ◼   ► And no one could decide on one of them

01:14:44 ◼   ► because really none of them are any better than any other.

01:14:48 ◼   ► And so it's forced all of these companies to work together

01:14:50 ◼   ► to make it better for the consumer.

01:14:53 ◼   ► And that's awesome.

01:14:54 ◼   ► And it sounds like Apple donated its home kit code

01:14:58 ◼   ► to make this happen, which is also kind of cool.

01:15:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:15:01 ◼   ► - But Apple said, we wrote this

01:15:03 ◼   ► and it sounds like everybody else was like,

01:15:05 ◼   ► it's pretty good, we could use this as the base.

01:15:07 ◼   ► And it's this detente that we've been talking about

01:15:09 ◼   ► for a long time.

01:15:10 ◼   ► This idea that it is the single biggest thing

01:15:14 ◼   ► keeping smart home, holding smart home technology back

01:15:17 ◼   ► is that everybody, it was a gold rush.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Everybody wanted to win.

01:15:22 ◼   ► They threw up walls everywhere

01:15:24 ◼   ► so that things were incompatible.

01:15:26 ◼   ► It was bad for the manufacturers.

01:15:27 ◼   ► It increased their expense to make products

01:15:30 ◼   ► 'cause they had to either make different SKUs

01:15:31 ◼   ► for different tech,

01:15:32 ◼   ► or they had to write the same support three times

01:15:35 ◼   ► in order for it to work on Google and Amazon and Apple.

01:15:38 ◼   ► And it meant that some products would just never come

01:15:41 ◼   ► to certain platforms.

01:15:42 ◼   ► And they finally realized that the land rush era was over

01:15:46 ◼   ► and that they were just defeating themselves by doing this.

01:15:50 ◼   ► And that was what, two plus years ago with Chip,

01:15:53 ◼   ► whatever it was, that they finally announced

01:15:57 ◼   ► they were doing this, but November 3rd, right?

01:16:00 ◼   ► So less than a month from now, we enter the Matter era.

01:16:04 ◼   ► I'm sure there are gonna be complaints.

01:16:05 ◼   ► I'm sure there's gonna be things that work weirdly.

01:16:08 ◼   ► People are gonna be frustrated by stuff

01:16:09 ◼   ► that doesn't get upgraded to it.

01:16:10 ◼   ► I'm also kind of curious about whether

01:16:12 ◼   ► those homebridge type products of the world shift gears

01:16:16 ◼   ► to be like more just trying to get

01:16:20 ◼   ► non-matter compatible stuff into matter,

01:16:23 ◼   ► or if there'll be a new,

01:16:24 ◼   ► I know nothing about what they're planning,

01:16:26 ◼   ► but like I can still see a place

01:16:28 ◼   ► for something like Homebridge or Home Control,

01:16:32 ◼   ► but in a different context of like,

01:16:35 ◼   ► really our goal now is to just get anything that's old

01:16:38 ◼   ► to show up in matter.

01:16:41 ◼   ► - I mean, in my mind,

01:16:44 ◼   ► like I feel like they have to do something

01:16:46 ◼   ► because over time the need for something like a home bridge

01:16:50 ◼   ► will decrease.

01:16:51 ◼   ► - Right.

01:16:52 ◼   ► - Because--

01:16:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, because of matter.

01:16:54 ◼   ► - In theory every device that you should be buying

01:16:57 ◼   ► should be matter.

01:16:58 ◼   ► - And maybe in the end what it really is

01:16:59 ◼   ► is it's a software matter controller, right?

01:17:03 ◼   ► Something like that.

01:17:04 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't know what they're planning,

01:17:06 ◼   ► but I do think that there's still gonna be a place

01:17:08 ◼   ► for some of that stuff just to be a bridge

01:17:10 ◼   ► from old tech to new tech.

01:17:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree with that.

01:17:14 ◼   ► But that feels like not a great over, I mean, not that Homebridge is a business,

01:17:18 ◼   ► but it's not really like a long term product at that point, right?

01:17:21 ◼   ► Like, because then within a matter of years, people would upgrade or a matter of

01:17:25 ◼   ► time, maybe, maybe a decade, people would change their devices and hopefully

01:17:29 ◼   ► they'll be matter supported.

01:17:30 ◼   ► Because this is one of those things now where I feel like if you're buying

01:17:34 ◼   ► smart home technology, you really want to make sure that that company will be

01:17:38 ◼   ► updating the thing that you're buying to support matter.

01:17:41 ◼   ► Like really, I would say that you shouldn't buy something unless it's going to have the support

01:17:47 ◼   ► because it harms you not all and it future proofs you, I think. So I think this is the clear way to

01:17:56 ◼   ► go when it comes to home automation technology. This episode is brought to you by CleanMyMac X.

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01:20:29 ◼   ► Let's do some #AskUpgradeQuestions to finish out today's episode.

01:20:36 ◼   ► First question comes from Terminal 3, which I like to think is the Heathrow Terminal 3,

01:20:42 ◼   ► like Heathrow Airport Terminal 3, just wants to know.

01:20:44 ◼   ► Jason, how did you spend your birthday?

01:20:47 ◼   ► It was Jason's birthday this past week.

01:20:50 ◼   ► Happy birthday, Jason!

01:20:51 ◼   ► Yes, it was.

01:20:52 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:20:53 ◼   ► Uh, pretty normal day, honestly, because Lauren was working all day, so, and it's the busy

01:20:59 ◼   ► season for us, so, and there were no baseball games on, which is sad, because I always like

01:21:03 ◼   ► to do that. So I wrote some of my macOS Ventura review, I got yelled at by you and Steven,

01:21:10 ◼   ► who said I should be curling or something instead. That's how curling works.

01:21:12 ◼   ► Just doing anything else other than writing, because you were angry too, you were just

01:21:16 ◼   ► having like a bad time with it.

01:21:18 ◼   ► Little preview of my macOS Ventura review, some of the features aren't very good. You

01:21:23 ◼   ► can guess which ones.

01:21:24 ◼   ► That was more of it for me, you know, if you want to work on your birthday, work on your

01:21:27 ◼   ► birthday but work on something fun at least. Yeah well I mean it was I mean I

01:21:31 ◼   ► did get it out honestly clearing things out of the to-do list is a little bit

01:21:36 ◼   ► fun when it's so overwhelming like it is in September but we had a nice dinner

01:21:42 ◼   ► and went to a couple of concerts last week too so that was kind of fun so we

01:21:47 ◼   ► had some we did some nice stuff but it was not entirely concentrated on my

01:21:51 ◼   ► birthday and that's okay. David wants to know seems like a long time since

01:21:56 ◼   ► "Eddie Q presented at an Apple event.

01:21:58 ◼   ► "He used to be a regular.

01:21:59 ◼   ► "When do you think we'll see Eddie again?"

01:22:01 ◼   ► I wanted to pick this question out

01:22:02 ◼   ► 'cause we spent so much time talking about Eddie Q last week.

01:22:06 ◼   ► What do you think about the lack of Eddie Q?

01:22:10 ◼   ► - It's not, he's not great at it,

01:22:12 ◼   ► at the presenting on, you know, on stage or in an event.

01:22:15 ◼   ► And it's not, there are other people who like,

01:22:19 ◼   ► for Apple TV stuff,

01:22:21 ◼   ► there should be other people to present it.

01:22:25 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, it's just,

01:22:26 ◼   ► he's not necessary for that sort of thing.

01:22:28 ◼   ► He, and it is not, here's what I will say.

01:22:31 ◼   ► You don't wanna be at a company

01:22:34 ◼   ► where people insist on screen time

01:22:37 ◼   ► in order to prove how important they are.

01:22:40 ◼   ► - I think Google has this problem.

01:22:42 ◼   ► - Google, I mean, I don't know about the last couple

01:22:45 ◼   ► of years, I haven't watched a full Google thing live

01:22:49 ◼   ► in a while.

01:22:50 ◼   ► - Well, I/O is where you see this issue the most, I think.

01:22:52 ◼   ► - But definitely you see it where it's like every

01:22:55 ◼   ► vice president has to have their five minutes even if they don't have anything to announce,

01:23:00 ◼   ► just to exert their power. And like Eddie, you know, Eddie's living his best life and

01:23:07 ◼   ► services are a very important part of Apple's business. His presence in the photo on the

01:23:12 ◼   ► May Day Parade at the top of the Kremlin is not, you know, is not required for him to

01:23:18 ◼   ► be still there and powerful. And I think it's interesting that he was in all those photos

01:23:22 ◼   ► or many of those photos last week from the big European trip, shows you he's still a

01:23:27 ◼   ► mover and a shaker and a schmoozer and he doesn't have to be, you know, doing his dad

01:23:34 ◼   ► dance out there like he did that one time. He doesn't have to do that. He doesn't have

01:23:40 ◼   ► to be present for that sort of thing.

01:23:42 ◼   ► So my kind of read on this is somewhat similar, which is like, I think there was a time when

01:23:48 ◼   ► Apple presentations, every kind of like head of each division would be the person to deliver

01:23:55 ◼   ► the presentation about that portion of whatever was spoken about, right? So they would have,

01:24:01 ◼   ► you know, you want a software, right? Well, now we're going to get forced all up. We're

01:24:05 ◼   ► going to talk about hardware. Well, now Sheila's going to, you know, it was like a kind of

01:24:09 ◼   ► a person who had the fiefdom and they would bring out each person to talk about each area.

01:24:15 ◼   ► - And that started to then change over time

01:24:17 ◼   ► where they ended up just relying on the best presenters.

01:24:20 ◼   ► So like Craig Federighi had an increased role.

01:24:22 ◼   ► And then I think they've done an even better thing

01:24:24 ◼   ► where now they bring in people from the teams

01:24:29 ◼   ► that aren't the same people every time.

01:24:32 ◼   ► And I think in doing this,

01:24:33 ◼   ► they're able to showcase the diversity of employee

01:24:37 ◼   ► that they actually have at the company.

01:24:38 ◼   ► And it's not all just middle-aged white men

01:24:41 ◼   ► which is the majority of the leadership team, right?

01:24:43 ◼   ► They're able to mix it up more.

01:24:44 ◼   ► Ironically, EdiQ is Cuban, but yes, the point is that they--

01:24:48 ◼   ► - I'm not talking about Edi specifically here.

01:24:50 ◼   ► I'm talking about-- - Yeah, they changed

01:24:51 ◼   ► their way of presenting and who presents

01:24:53 ◼   ► to be a very different sort of thing

01:24:55 ◼   ► where you're not gonna have the same five people

01:24:58 ◼   ► out there every time.

01:24:59 ◼   ► - My point here is not to talk about Edi specifically.

01:25:02 ◼   ► It's more just a change in the process,

01:25:04 ◼   ► to which I will say Edi has been lost

01:25:06 ◼   ► in the shuffle of the new process,

01:25:08 ◼   ► which is to have people in each division

01:25:11 ◼   ► come out and talk about it,

01:25:13 ◼   ► which is not necessarily the person in charge of each division.

01:25:17 ◼   ► I will say, Greg Joss-Wieck seems like a really nice guy.

01:25:22 ◼   ► I don't think he is necessarily the best person

01:25:24 ◼   ► to be talking about the iPhone Pro anymore,

01:25:27 ◼   ► but, you know, you can have your own differing opinions on that.

01:25:29 ◼   ► -I mean, he's at the top level, right?

01:25:31 ◼   ► I mean, he's at the top level, like Jeff Williams or something,

01:25:34 ◼   ► where it sort of, like, then introduces all the people beneath.

01:25:37 ◼   ► That's the -- he's in the part that Steve would have been in.

01:25:40 ◼   ► -Joss does the whole thing about the Pro iPhone.

01:25:42 ◼   ► - Does he do the whole thing?

01:25:42 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:25:43 ◼   ► - Well, he's probably not doing that.

01:25:44 ◼   ► - And I don't think that he's the best person for that.

01:25:46 ◼   ► Like, Karen Jants is like a way better presenter,

01:25:49 ◼   ► I think, Karen does the iPhone, right?

01:25:52 ◼   ► Is that right?

01:25:53 ◼   ► Is that, yeah, I think so.

01:25:55 ◼   ► And she does a much better--

01:25:58 ◼   ► - Kayan, not Karen.

01:25:59 ◼   ► - Kayan, thank you.

01:26:00 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:26:01 ◼   ► I was, I, Y and an R, I got them mixed up.

01:26:05 ◼   ► Kayan Jants does a better job, right, of that, I think.

01:26:08 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:26:09 ◼   ► - It's an I.

01:26:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:26:10 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

01:26:11 ◼   ► You're killing me here, alright?

01:26:13 ◼   ► Well, you know, I want to get the name right.

01:26:16 ◼   ► Well, you googled it, right? To confirm?

01:26:19 ◼   ► I'm just speaking here.

01:26:21 ◼   ► I googled it because I knew it wasn't Karen, but it's Kian with an I.

01:26:25 ◼   ► I was mixing up the R from Drance.

01:26:27 ◼   ► That's what I'm going to say, alright? I'm trying.

01:26:29 ◼   ► We know her husband.

01:26:31 ◼   ► Shh, we know her husband.

01:26:33 ◼   ► Oh my god, I didn't know that.

01:26:35 ◼   ► It's Matt's.

01:26:37 ◼   ► Okay. Anyway, all of this to say, I think Eddie has been lost in the shuffle for this

01:26:42 ◼   ► because I think in Eddie's division, he's just not the right person anymore because

01:26:46 ◼   ► like the majority of Eddie's division now is probably TV Plus. And if you're gonna have

01:26:52 ◼   ► someone come out now to talk about that, you want the content people, not the deals guy.

01:26:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:58 ◼   ► Because no one wants to hear about the deals that are made. You want to hear about the

01:27:01 ◼   ► content that's made.

01:27:02 ◼   ► He's a mover and a shaker and a schmoozer and he's living his best life and he's at

01:27:06 ◼   ► Oktoberfest and he doesn't need to be more than that.

01:27:09 ◼   ► I have a question from David who asks, "Do you think Apple will ever allow third-party

01:27:14 ◼   ► watch faces?"

01:27:15 ◼   ► Is this an underscore David Smith?

01:27:18 ◼   ► No.

01:27:19 ◼   ► This is actually David Dooley, our artwork designer.

01:27:22 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

01:27:23 ◼   ► Alright.

01:27:24 ◼   ► But then I put in a link to a David Smith tweet.

01:27:28 ◼   ► Of David Smith making new watch faces.

01:27:31 ◼   ► It's a conspiracy of David's.

01:27:32 ◼   ► It's the David's conspiracy.

01:27:35 ◼   ► The, do I think Apple will ever allow third-party watch faces?

01:27:40 ◼   ► I'm gonna say yes, ever,

01:27:44 ◼   ► because Apple does a lot of things that we say

01:27:47 ◼   ► they'll never ever do eventually as a platform matures

01:27:50 ◼   ► and they're looking for other ways for it to be interesting.

01:27:52 ◼   ► And I think that they will, there will come a point

01:27:56 ◼   ► where they will allow a certain level.

01:27:58 ◼   ► Obviously it's gonna be like face kit or something,

01:28:01 ◼   ► and there's gonna be limitations on what you can do

01:28:03 ◼   ► and you have to use Apple's pieces,

01:28:05 ◼   ► and there's gonna be, you know,

01:28:07 ◼   ► you can't use anybody else's intellectual property,

01:28:09 ◼   ► and there'll have to be apps in the app store

01:28:10 ◼   ► that'll be approved, and like,

01:28:12 ◼   ► there'll be lots of restrictions on it,

01:28:16 ◼   ► but I do think it will happen at some point,

01:28:18 ◼   ► because it will be a way for Apple to extol the virtues

01:28:23 ◼   ► of the watch in a new way.

01:28:26 ◼   ► And at some point, you get in the life cycle of a product

01:28:29 ◼   ► where you're like, okay, we have the ability to do it,

01:28:32 ◼   ► and it'll make us look good,

01:28:34 ◼   ► and it'll bring in all these other faces,

01:28:36 ◼   ► and we'll have approval over everything,

01:28:39 ◼   ► and developers will be happy,

01:28:41 ◼   ► and like, why not do it at this point?

01:28:43 ◼   ► Because we've reached year 10 or whatever,

01:28:46 ◼   ► the Apple Watch, we might as well go ahead with it.

01:28:48 ◼   ► I think it's inevitable at some point.

01:28:51 ◼   ► And most of the arguments against it

01:28:54 ◼   ► that I hear from people

01:28:55 ◼   ► are that the intellectual property arguments,

01:28:58 ◼   ► and the App Store approval process kinda clears that up.

01:29:02 ◼   ► Like, first off, as a developer, you have to say,

01:29:05 ◼   ► "No, this is not somebody,

01:29:07 ◼   ► doesn't violate anybody's intellectual property."

01:29:09 ◼   ► And if somebody raises their hand and says,

01:29:10 ◼   ► "Actually, it does.

01:29:11 ◼   ► It violates our patent or whatever

01:29:13 ◼   ► on our trade dress of our watch or whatever,"

01:29:16 ◼   ► then Apple says, "Show us some proof,"

01:29:18 ◼   ► and they pull the face down.

01:29:20 ◼   ► And I know, you know,

01:29:21 ◼   ► that can lead to some controversies and all that,

01:29:23 ◼   ► but like, this is the process for this stuff.

01:29:25 ◼   ► It's not really any different

01:29:26 ◼   ► from any other App Store submission thing.

01:29:29 ◼   ► - I'm not convinced, you know.

01:29:31 ◼   ► - That they'll do it?

01:29:33 ◼   ► - Ever?

01:29:34 ◼   ► - I mean within a reasonable timeframe, right?

01:29:36 ◼   ► 'Cause like ever is like whatever.

01:29:38 ◼   ► - That wasn't the question.

01:29:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, but like I'm honestly, I don't know.

01:29:41 ◼   ► - In the next two years, I'd say, I don't know.

01:29:43 ◼   ► - But I could say in the next 10 years, I don't think so.

01:29:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, all right.

01:29:47 ◼   ► - Because it's essentially, would they allow anybody else

01:29:52 ◼   ► to redesign the UI of the iPhone home screen?

01:29:56 ◼   ► Like you can have your own home screen layout

01:29:58 ◼   ► that's completely designed by a third-party developer.

01:30:02 ◼   ► - You mean like widgets and custom icons?

01:30:04 ◼   ► - No, I mean like not that,

01:30:06 ◼   ► because that's complications, right?

01:30:08 ◼   ► A new watch face design is like,

01:30:10 ◼   ► oh, we're gonna allow a third party

01:30:12 ◼   ► to design how icons are arranged on the screen

01:30:16 ◼   ► and where the clock goes on the lock screen

01:30:18 ◼   ► and where the battery indicator goes.

01:30:20 ◼   ► Like, it feels way more,

01:30:22 ◼   ► 'cause we already have that, right?

01:30:24 ◼   ► Like widgets, it already exists, they're complications,

01:30:26 ◼   ► and you can put them in a bunch of different formats

01:30:29 ◼   ► and you can have them already on there.

01:30:31 ◼   ► Like, I think it's too much.

01:30:32 ◼   ► - I don't agree because I think that in fact,

01:30:36 ◼   ► the existence of the complications

01:30:38 ◼   ► is the thing that makes it still be kind of

01:30:41 ◼   ► under Apple's control,

01:30:42 ◼   ► that you've got to design a watch face that we approve

01:30:46 ◼   ► and that these are the complication slots.

01:30:48 ◼   ► And you do that and you're exerting a level of control

01:30:52 ◼   ► over it that sort of limits what a watch face can be.

01:30:55 ◼   ► And that's sort of how I'm picturing it.

01:30:56 ◼   ► is not, "Oh, people will just write an app

01:30:58 ◼   ► that's the Carrot Weather watch face.

01:31:01 ◼   ► And all the data on it is from Carrot Weather,

01:31:03 ◼   ► and they're using it, and it's literally just an app

01:31:07 ◼   ► that runs all the time."

01:31:08 ◼   ► Well, that's not what I'm saying.

01:31:09 ◼   ► I'm saying, well, no, Carrot Weather.

01:31:11 ◼   ► If you wanna display, if you wanna write a watch face app,

01:31:14 ◼   ► I guess you can, but the only way

01:31:15 ◼   ► you're gonna be displaying data

01:31:17 ◼   ► is through our complications API.

01:31:19 ◼   ► That's how you do it.

01:31:21 ◼   ► And all you're really doing as a custom watch face

01:31:24 ◼   ► is adding the design of all the stuff

01:31:27 ◼   ► that goes around the complications

01:31:28 ◼   ► and choosing which complications you use.

01:31:30 ◼   ► That's sort of how I'm envisioning it, right?

01:31:31 ◼   ► It's not freedom, it's very limited,

01:31:35 ◼   ► 'cause we'll, and if they ever do it,

01:31:37 ◼   ► it'll be like, "Oh yay, custom watch faces!"

01:31:39 ◼   ► And then everybody will look at the rules

01:31:40 ◼   ► and they're like, "Oh, oh, it only lets you do this."

01:31:44 ◼   ► And that sounds very much like something

01:31:46 ◼   ► Apple will do eventually.

01:31:47 ◼   ► - And Nougatmachine asks,

01:31:50 ◼   ► Next year we have we expect a periscope lens system to debut on the iPhone

01:31:55 ◼   ► Should we expect it to follow a similar pattern to the initial rollout of wide and telephoto lenses?

01:32:01 ◼   ► Where it's initially impressive to have all of it on an expensive phone

01:32:05 ◼   ► But with future versions quickly making the first iteration of that seem crude. So I'm thinking of say something like

01:32:11 ◼   ► 2x lens or

01:32:16 ◼   ► maybe a portrait mode or something like that?

01:32:19 ◼   ► Like, do we expect that it will start one way,

01:32:22 ◼   ► and probably be on the most expensive phone,

01:32:23 ◼   ► and then move forward in a way

01:32:25 ◼   ► that makes the initial one seem kind of basic?

01:32:29 ◼   ► - I mean, that's always the way it is, right?

01:32:30 ◼   ► It's gonna start out amazing,

01:32:32 ◼   ► and then future versions will leave it in the dust.

01:32:34 ◼   ► That's just how it is.

01:32:35 ◼   ► But I feel like my question about how periscope lenses work

01:32:40 ◼   ► and how they work on the other smartphones now

01:32:44 ◼   ► and how Apple will choose to implement it is,

01:32:46 ◼   ► are you, is there one thing with a periscope?

01:32:50 ◼   ► I was kind of assuming that there was one periscope path

01:32:54 ◼   ► and that all the sensors are on the other side of it,

01:32:56 ◼   ► if that makes sense, that you could actually simplify it,

01:33:00 ◼   ► because you're using so much space for the periscope

01:33:02 ◼   ► that wouldn't you have like,

01:33:05 ◼   ► but I guess you gotta have,

01:33:05 ◼   ► I guess the optics have to be different.

01:33:08 ◼   ► I'm curious about how this is constructed, right?

01:33:10 ◼   ► I assume that the periscope lens is gonna be the,

01:33:13 ◼   ► main camera, but I don't know.

01:33:18 ◼   ► And I don't know enough about optics,

01:33:19 ◼   ► but that's what I'm curious about is like,

01:33:20 ◼   ► how do you redefine what an iPhone camera is

01:33:23 ◼   ► if you've got actually more focal length, essentially?

01:33:28 ◼   ► How does that look and how does that work?

01:33:30 ◼   ► - Will it be the main camera?

01:33:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:33:36 ◼   ► 'Cause the idea-- - Or is it a zoom?

01:33:37 ◼   ► - Well, the idea of the periscope is zooming.

01:33:40 ◼   ► Like that's its like function is to allow for a stronger optical zoom.

01:33:47 ◼   ► So it's the normal boring, haha, 48 megapixel camera that we have today, but the 3x becomes a

01:33:53 ◼   ► super periscope mega zoom like on the Samsung phones, like 100x or whatever they are.

01:33:59 ◼   ► It could be part of the reason that the 2x came back because then it's going to be like a 5x.

01:34:04 ◼   ► So it'd be like one, two, five.

01:34:06 ◼   ► - 10X.

01:34:07 ◼   ► - And then it goes up to 10 maybe.

01:34:11 ◼   ► But like it would start and be much more.

01:34:14 ◼   ► I expect that this will be a,

01:34:16 ◼   ► I mean all Jason it's a fourth camera, I don't know.

01:34:19 ◼   ► Like maybe.

01:34:20 ◼   ► Like genuinely like maybe, right?

01:34:22 ◼   ► Like it's already a square and you've got three in there.

01:34:25 ◼   ► Put a fourth in there, you know?

01:34:26 ◼   ► Maybe, I don't know.

01:34:27 ◼   ► - Why not?

01:34:28 ◼   ► - I think that the Samsung Ultra is four cameras

01:34:31 ◼   ► or like what looks like four cameras at the moment.

01:34:35 ◼   ► My expectation is this will probably just be

01:34:40 ◼   ► the biggest phone that gets this to start with

01:34:44 ◼   ► just because it will be easier.

01:34:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's that rumor that,

01:34:48 ◼   ► or the report that Mark Gurman has talked about

01:34:51 ◼   ► that it's the Pro Ultra, right?

01:34:53 ◼   ► Or the Ultra, Phone Ultra, just straight up Ultra.

01:34:56 ◼   ► And that might be exactly where it goes.

01:34:58 ◼   ► Somebody in the chat room just pointed out

01:35:00 ◼   ► to the Huawei, a little cutaway that they did

01:35:02 ◼   ► where it's sort of like camera, camera,

01:35:04 ◼   ► and then lens to periscope that turns at 90 degrees

01:35:08 ◼   ► and then the sensors on the inside.

01:35:10 ◼   ► So there you go, that's the idea.

01:35:12 ◼   ► So there'll be one that's got the super mega powerful,

01:35:15 ◼   ► awesome periscoping, which the value in the periscope again,

01:35:19 ◼   ► is just the more focal length, more optical,

01:35:23 ◼   ► like having a very, very, very thin camera

01:35:27 ◼   ► eliminates a lot of possibilities.

01:35:29 ◼   ► you need to have more length for the light to travel.

01:35:33 ◼   ► So it's an interesting idea,

01:35:37 ◼   ► but to answer a Nougat machine's question,

01:35:39 ◼   ► yeah, I think of course it's gonna seem crude