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00:00:09 ◼   ► And you're gonna have like 16 hours in your car. Oh, yeah, you're gonna be gonna burn out the butt massager

00:00:15 ◼   ► So true

00:00:21 ◼   ► Should we tell the public when we were actually recording this so that if anything big happens next week that they know

00:00:29 ◼   ► Yeah, we probably should. So today it is June 21, which is a Friday.

00:00:35 ◼   ► The longest day of the year.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Is it really?

00:00:37 ◼   ► By some times, yes. It is the solstice.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Ah, right, right, right. So we are recording today because John is traveling next week,

00:00:45 ◼   ► and we didn't want to leave our beloved fans/listeners without an episode next week.

00:00:51 ◼   ► So we're recording very early, and we'll release a week from today.

00:00:55 ◼   ► So, when Apple buys Nintendo on Monday, we won't know about it.

00:01:00 ◼   ► Well, I thought the plan was you were going to buy Nintendo on Monday, then sell it to

00:01:04 ◼   ► Apple, and then they would just shut it down and eat it alive.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Is that not the plan?

00:01:09 ◼   ► Not a bad idea.

00:01:10 ◼   ► I mean, that would give us more to talk about, at least.

00:01:12 ◼   ► But then John wouldn't be able to talk about it.

00:01:14 ◼   ► I would just call you and just talk alone without John.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Oh my God, that would make him so angry.

00:01:18 ◼   ► It would be so funny.

00:01:20 ◼   ► I guess somebody bought Nintendo, huh?

00:01:22 ◼   ► Anything to say about that?

00:01:23 ◼   ► Nope, not really.

00:01:24 ◼   ► Not really, okay. I guess we'll move on. Let's talk about the Mac Pro some more.

00:01:28 ◼   ► John, what would you do? I mean, honestly, you'd be so upset.

00:01:31 ◼   ► I would think I would actually write a blog post about that. That's how momentous that

00:01:36 ◼   ► would be. You'd be so angry it would drive you to write

00:01:38 ◼   ► a blog post. No, I'd be so motivated. Yeah, there's so

00:01:42 ◼   ► many things I want to write about, but it's like, "Eh, don't have time. Gotta go back

00:01:45 ◼   ► to fretting about my review." That's true. How's that going?

00:01:51 ◼   ► I'm fretting about it.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Well, at least it's not July.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that's why I didn't say I'm writing.

00:01:58 ◼   ► I'm fretting about it as a full-time activity.

00:02:02 ◼   ► I'm still gathering resources and trying to come up with an outline and thinking about,

00:02:07 ◼   ► "Oh, God, look at all the stuff I have to write."

00:02:10 ◼   ► And then also thinking, "Maybe it'll be really short this year.

00:02:12 ◼   ► I don't know."

00:02:13 ◼   ► I mean, you've got to figure, they're changing less and less in each release as the release

00:02:17 ◼   ► time has gotten shorter, right?

00:02:20 ◼   ► Yeah, more or less, but like, I don't know. I'll have to see. I think it will be shorter.

00:02:24 ◼   ► I think that's been the trend, because they have, like you said, they've been doing less,

00:02:28 ◼   ► but you never know when I'm going to go off on some weird tangent.

00:02:30 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe knowing you, you're probably not going to make the review shorter. It'll just

00:02:35 ◼   ► give you more space and time to expand on things that you would have otherwise not gotten

00:02:39 ◼   ► – not had time to get to.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Well, like the 10.6 review, I thought that was going to be super short, because like

00:02:44 ◼   ► Apple's coming out up front, zero new features. Like, oh, this is going to be a short review.

00:02:47 ◼   ► And it was shorter, but it wasn't as short as I thought it was going to be.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Was it like a few thousand words less?

00:02:53 ◼   ► It wasn't a whole lot shorter?

00:02:55 ◼   ► Yeah, and this one I think will be shorter still, but we'll see.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Quantity is not the thing.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Just quality.

00:03:00 ◼   ► I want it to be interesting and good.

00:03:02 ◼   ► So I'm going to concentrate on that, assuming I ever finish fretting and start writing.

00:03:06 ◼   ► Fair enough.

00:03:08 ◼   ► So speaking of shorter things, this might be a short episode, because we have a laundry

00:03:12 ◼   ► list of miscellaneous topics, but I don't know how much we'll actually get to.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Casey, come on.

00:03:15 ◼   ► You know us.

00:03:16 ◼   ► Now that I've stated it's a shorter episode, we're going to go for two hours so everyone

00:03:19 ◼   ► buckle up.

00:03:20 ◼   ► Any time John and Dan would say, "Oh, this is going to be a short one of Hypercritical,"

00:03:25 ◼   ► I would always immediately take out my iPhone from walking the dog and just look at the

00:03:30 ◼   ► timestamp and just see how much… and it's always like 110 minutes remaining or something

00:03:35 ◼   ► like that.

00:03:36 ◼   ► We went through this.

00:03:37 ◼   ► My listeners did a good job and did statistical regression analysis to see that me saying

00:03:42 ◼   ► it was going to be a shorter show did not, in fact, make the show longer and actually

00:03:47 ◼   ► made it slightly shorter. And I don't know enough about statistics to know whether—like,

00:03:51 ◼   ► the statisticians argued amongst themselves whether it was significant or not, but there

00:03:55 ◼   ► was no clear trend of the opposite. It just seems that way. It's like, you know, it

00:03:59 ◼   ► seems like it because it's the opposite of what you would expect and it stands out

00:04:03 ◼   ► in your memory. But in reality, they were actually not way longer.

00:04:07 ◼   ► I love that both your audience and you know that.

00:04:11 ◼   ► That somebody actually went…

00:04:13 ◼   ► Several people, several people, yes.

00:04:15 ◼   ► Someone put the link in the show notes about it.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Oh, that's fantastic.

00:04:19 ◼   ► All right, so one of the things I wanted to ask you guys what you thought about, and this

00:04:24 ◼   ► may or may not take very long, but there's been a couple, or there were a couple of new

00:04:29 ◼   ► Apple videos that were shown on the Keynote Monday, or I believe they were both Keynote

00:04:35 ◼   ► Keynote Monday. And the first one was the one that was at the very beginning of the

00:04:41 ◼   ► keynote itself. And I don't know if it has a title, it probably does and I'm not aware

00:04:45 ◼   ► of, but it was a fairly abstract black and white kind of almost essay about what Apple

00:04:54 ◼   ► does in order to design products. And to my recollection, I don't remember them ever having

00:04:59 ◼   ► started with a video. And I think we talked about this briefly one or two episodes ago,

00:05:03 ◼   ► but they actually started with a video this year and I thought it was a very interesting

00:05:06 ◼   ► video that basically said, "Hey, listen."

00:05:09 ◼   ► The way I interpreted it was, "This is how we do our thing and if you don't like it,

00:05:14 ◼   ► tough nuts."

00:05:15 ◼   ► And I was curious what you two had to say about that.

00:05:17 ◼   ► They used to start with the Mac PC ads.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Remember when they started a couple of keynotes with those?

00:05:24 ◼   ► Didn't they start last year's keynote with the—

00:05:26 ◼   ► Oh, with the GarageBand thing?

00:05:27 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:05:28 ◼   ► The guy walking in the woods who was blind, using an iPhone.

00:05:30 ◼   ► That wasn't the start.

00:05:31 ◼   ► the start. I mean, "start" means like lights dim, everyone gets ready to hear something,

00:05:35 ◼   ► and instead of a person walking out on stage, they just play a video. And I think the only

00:05:39 ◼   ► other times they've done that are when they were showing ads, like the old Mac PC ads

00:05:45 ◼   ► with Justin Long and Hodgman.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Well, you can kind of argue that they're all ads, right?

00:05:50 ◼   ► But like television ads that were going to run on television, they would play that. Or

00:05:53 ◼   ► custom ones where this was not going to actually run on television, but those characters come

00:05:58 ◼   ► But the difference about this one is it wasn't it wasn't fun. It wasn't supposed to be like funny and it wasn't an

00:06:04 ◼   ► advertisement using known properties or showing a product or something it was more like a

00:06:09 ◼   ► Mission statement kind of a

00:06:13 ◼   ► statement of philosophy or whatever and I

00:06:17 ◼   ► Thought as I said, I think on the first in the podcast we did right after the keynote that that was like, okay

00:06:24 ◼   ► This is gonna be something big like, you know

00:06:26 ◼   ► Like when a video begins with in the course of human events like you know

00:06:30 ◼   ► Well, oh my god

00:06:32 ◼   ► Apple is start opening an Apple store on the moon and they're whatever like it's gonna be something

00:06:38 ◼   ► momentous or significant for the company or that maybe they were buying Nintendo like you know

00:06:42 ◼   ► I mean like something at that level and what followed in the keynote did not live up to that lofty goal

00:06:47 ◼   ► and so then in hindsight the video which is beautifully produced and very interesting and

00:06:51 ◼   ► and contains a lot of accurate content about how Apple sees itself and how we see Apple

00:06:57 ◼   ► comes off as pretentious because what they released was great and awesome, but that video

00:07:05 ◼   ► should have been saved for when they do something more momentous.

00:07:10 ◼   ► So you did or did not like it all the time?

00:07:12 ◼   ► I loved the video.

00:07:13 ◼   ► I thought it was beautiful.

00:07:14 ◼   ► It was nicely done.

00:07:15 ◼   ► You understand what it's saying, but I feel like it was out of balance.

00:07:18 ◼   ► You can't start with that.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And everyone's like, "Oh my God, what is it going to be?"

00:07:25 ◼   ► And what it is is great, but not like, you know, I don't know.

00:07:29 ◼   ► I mean, maybe when could have Apple have gotten away with that?

00:07:31 ◼   ► They can get away with it at the original Mac intro and probably the iPhone intro.

00:07:36 ◼   ► That's about it.

00:07:37 ◼   ► You really think it was overblown?

00:07:38 ◼   ► I didn't think it was overblown at all.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Slightly.

00:07:41 ◼   ► It was just slightly overblown.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Not ridiculously overblown, but slightly.

00:07:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:07:44 ◼   ► I wouldn't say that either.

00:07:46 ◼   ► And by the way, I should point out, the chatroom is saying that last year, the Siri comedy

00:07:51 ◼   ► stand-up video, that was the intro last year, wasn't it?

00:07:54 ◼   ► Yeah, because they did a little GarageBand bit, like, well, it was like a rimshot drum

00:07:59 ◼   ► roll.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it was like "Series Comedy Act."

00:08:03 ◼   ► Thanks for that.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:05 ◼   ► I believe that was the intro, so I think they're right.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Anyway, I don't think this year's intro video was overblown or overstayed in the case at

00:08:12 ◼   ► all.

00:08:13 ◼   ► I mean, looking at the keynote, right afterwards, we were all excited, and as you said, we all

00:08:20 ◼   ► thought it was pretty great. Now, with some time for it to sink in and get a little bit

00:08:24 ◼   ► less shiny looking back on it, I still think it was awesome. I still think it was a really,

00:08:28 ◼   ► really great keynote. It was one of the best ones we've had for years.

00:08:31 ◼   ► I agree.

00:08:33 ◼   ► And there was a lot. Not only was the energy really great, and the showmanship was really

00:08:39 ◼   ► with the exception of that weird car demo.

00:08:41 ◼   ► But besides that, everything was great.

00:08:44 ◼   ► And then what they showed us was also pretty great.

00:08:47 ◼   ► You had this revolutionary change in iOS,

00:08:53 ◼   ► a nice update to OS X with mediocre scale improvements,

00:08:58 ◼   ► but a nice update.

00:09:01 ◼   ► But the big thing was iOS.

00:09:02 ◼   ► And then this surprise Mac Pro, which to most people

00:09:05 ◼   ► doesn't matter, but to a few people,

00:09:07 ◼   ► including the three of us, it's really interesting and extremely surprising. Plus, better MacBook

00:09:14 ◼   ► Airs. I think it was a really good keynote.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Yeah, but if you're going to explain your philosophy, the products they introduced were

00:09:22 ◼   ► not out of character for the company or shocking or going to knock the industry on its ear

00:09:28 ◼   ► or anything like that. And so that's why it's out of balance a little bit.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Maybe iOS 7 might.

00:09:33 ◼   ► I think it would be better if that video was just on their website, it would be fine, but

00:09:39 ◼   ► using it as a lead-in to introduce a bunch of products that more or less everybody expected

00:09:43 ◼   ► and that aren't like the original Mac or the iPhone, where it's just like nobody saw that

00:09:50 ◼   ► coming and it was just out of left field and it far exceeds these expectations.

00:09:54 ◼   ► I don't think it's crazily out of balance, it's just a little bit out of balance.

00:09:57 ◼   ► I do think the keynote was great.

00:09:58 ◼   ► I think all the announcements were great.

00:10:00 ◼   ► I think it was very impressive again, except for the car thing.

00:10:04 ◼   ► But it's tough to pull that off.

00:10:06 ◼   ► Because all those things they said, you want to say those things, and it's difficult to

00:10:10 ◼   ► say them without sounding a little bit full of yourself.

00:10:14 ◼   ► You're telling them why you're great, and you have to do it in a way that isn't insulting,

00:10:18 ◼   ► and it's very difficult to pull that off.

00:10:21 ◼   ► Think different is kind of similar.

00:10:23 ◼   ► Think different kind of pulled it off because there was no attachment.

00:10:25 ◼   ► It wasn't leading to any sort of product.

00:10:26 ◼   ► It was just pure, "This is the philosophy of the company."

00:10:29 ◼   ► That didn't sound pretentious, that sounded foolhardy, perhaps.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Because you almost went bankrupt.

00:10:34 ◼   ► You've got nothing.

00:10:35 ◼   ► What the hell do you think you're going to make?

00:10:36 ◼   ► A teal computer?

00:10:37 ◼   ► So what, right?

00:10:38 ◼   ► And in hindsight, it looks good, right?

00:10:40 ◼   ► But here, I was just in the context of using that as the lead-in.

00:10:45 ◼   ► They didn't put anything in there that they needed that video.

00:10:50 ◼   ► The Johnny Ive videos where he tells you about their philosophy are more product-focused

00:10:54 ◼   ► and would match up better with a bunch of product announcements versus like the philosophical

00:10:59 ◼   ► thing with something revolutionary that, you know, if they're going to enter some new business

00:11:03 ◼   ► or something, maybe I can see that. But anyway, I like the video. I watch it again. Every

00:11:07 ◼   ► time I watch it, I'm impressed by whoever made this video did an awesome job. It's very

00:11:10 ◼   ► clever and nice and tasteful, and I do like it.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Well, wouldn't you also, I mean, the video also sets the stage for iOS 7 specifically.

00:11:20 ◼   ► It's specifically about, you know, clearing away everything, starting over again, you

00:11:23 ◼   ► You know, taking away what's unnecessary.

00:11:25 ◼   ► But they had their own iOS 7 intro video, which was also very good, but so much more product-focused,

00:11:29 ◼   ► and it kind of hit some of the same points.

00:11:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think that's why it was there.

00:11:33 ◼   ► This was like laying the foundation for the iOS 7 video later on,

00:11:37 ◼   ► and for us to accept that the iOS 7 design decisions were correct and inevitable.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Well, here's what I think that video was a lead-in for.

00:11:47 ◼   ► I think it was a lead-in for the Tim Cook era,

00:11:49 ◼   ► where this is the first big party for Tim Cook's newly rearranged Apple and what they can do.

00:11:55 ◼   ► And that, I mean, it wasn't stated as such, but in hindsight it looks like if you had to say,

00:12:00 ◼   ► "What was that video about?" Because it wasn't about a new Mac Pro, and I think it was kind of

00:12:05 ◼   ► about iOS 7, but the iOS 7 video was more about that. It was more about, it's like Tim Cook's

00:12:11 ◼   ► thing different, not really, but like he's saying, "Here we are, this is the new Apple,"

00:12:16 ◼   ► the forestall-less Apple, I guess, the new Tim Cook Apple with something new showing

00:12:21 ◼   ► that we really can move on from all the things that Steve Jobs created just to do something

00:12:26 ◼   ► great in his absence, something that he didn't foresee and didn't have a hand in.

00:12:31 ◼   ► In hindsight, I think that's what that video will match up best with.

00:12:35 ◼   ► See, and what I think what the video did for me was, you know, Apple hadn't said anything

00:12:42 ◼   ► since what, October, November, something like that?

00:12:44 ◼   ► What was it, the iPad Mini release?

00:12:45 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:12:46 ◼   ► was the last Apple event. Right, so this was, to me it kind of set the stage for

00:12:51 ◼   ► here's, here's Apple. I know we haven't said anything for almost a year now or

00:12:56 ◼   ► eight months, whatever the number was. Here's kind, let me, let's just remind

00:12:59 ◼   ► everyone this is how we roll and this is what we do and we're gonna keep that

00:13:04 ◼   ► mindset while we show you all this cool crap with the exception of the weird car

00:13:08 ◼   ► demo. And I think it was a really nice way to set the stage. Was it overblown? I

00:13:13 ◼   ► I mean, I don't think it was, but I can see your point, John.

00:13:16 ◼   ► But I think it was all about setting the stage for,

00:13:19 ◼   ► this is Apple.

00:13:20 ◼   ► This is-- we are Apple.

00:13:22 ◼   ► This is what we care about.

00:13:23 ◼   ► And if you don't like that, shove off.

00:13:25 ◼   ► But this is how the rest-- the next two hours are going to be.

00:13:29 ◼   ► I don't know, that's what I thought.

00:13:31 ◼   ► OK, so what about-- did you guys watch the video that they did

00:13:34 ◼   ► not show during the keynote, which is called making--

00:13:37 ◼   ► or I don't know if it's called making a difference one app

00:13:39 ◼   ► at a time, but--

00:13:40 ◼   ► Something like that, yeah.

00:13:41 ◼   ► It was something like that.

00:13:42 ◼   ► It was like an eight minute video or something along those lines.

00:13:45 ◼   ► I haven't even watched it.

00:13:47 ◼   ► It's interminable.

00:13:48 ◼   ► It's long.

00:13:49 ◼   ► It's ten minutes long, but it seems long.

00:13:52 ◼   ► T-L-D-W?

00:13:53 ◼   ► But I watched the whole thing.

00:13:55 ◼   ► It is beautifully produced.

00:13:56 ◼   ► It is nice.

00:13:57 ◼   ► It's heartwarming.

00:13:59 ◼   ► But it really depends on your goodwill towards Apple to accept the connection between Apple

00:14:04 ◼   ► and all the good things that they're showing happening in there.

00:14:07 ◼   ► They are good things, but are they necessarily related to Apple?

00:14:11 ◼   ► helps people in all sorts of ways, and all sorts of companies are behind that technology.

00:14:15 ◼   ► It's good that Apple's technology helps people in that way, but I don't think it's a distinguishing

00:14:23 ◼   ► characteristic that makes Apple stand out, unlike the design video which shows what they

00:14:30 ◼   ► put in that design video are the ways that Apple is different than most other companies,

00:14:35 ◼   ► whereas I think any company that makes a technology product that can be used to help people could

00:14:39 ◼   ► could have made a video like the one that Apple made there. Although at least it shows

00:14:42 ◼   ► that Apple cares that this is how their products are, this is what they're thinking of when

00:14:46 ◼   ► they're making their products, they want to see this type of outcome. But it's easy to

00:14:48 ◼   ► be cynical about it. And you know, like Monsanto could have made the same ad, it would have

00:14:53 ◼   ► been like, "Damn them, this is not really what Monsanto is like." And with Apple, like,

00:14:57 ◼   ► that's kind of what Apple's like. But on the other hand, what technology company, Microsoft

00:15:01 ◼   ► could have made the same video. Their products are helping people in similar ways, you know?

00:15:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I really liked it. Part of the reason I liked it was because it featured Charlottesville, Virginia,

00:15:09 ◼   ► which is just an hour west of here, and I used to live there. But beyond that, I thought it was really

00:15:14 ◼   ► touching and heartwarming, much like the Blind Hiker guy from last year's keynote.

00:15:20 ◼   ► I just thought it was well done. And you're right that, you know, anyone could have made a video

00:15:25 ◼   ► like this, but I love that Apple cares enough to not only make a video that's like one or two

00:15:30 ◼   ► minutes, but they made like an eight or nine minute video all about why and how their devices

00:15:37 ◼   ► literally improve people's lives.

00:15:39 ◼   ► And I just think it's cool that they even pay lip service to that being a priority,

00:15:43 ◼   ► whether or not it is a priority.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Although I would argue it is, given all their accessibility work and things of that nature.

00:15:50 ◼   ► I don't know, Marco, what did you think?

00:15:51 ◼   ► Well, you didn't see the videos.

00:15:53 ◼   ► Never mind.

00:15:54 ◼   ► I don't care about you.

00:15:55 ◼   ► It would have been, I mean, like the reason the hiker thing worked for me, I think, is

00:15:57 ◼   ► because Tim was there doing the intro and afterwards talking about it to say, "This

00:16:03 ◼   ► is not just a heartwarming video. Let me tell you personally from my heart in a convincing

00:16:06 ◼   ► way that this is what makes me get out of bed in the morning. This is what I'm trying

00:16:11 ◼   ► to do with the company." And he's the CEO. That makes that one land more, whereas having

00:16:16 ◼   ► this video is kind of out there as a corporate statement.

00:16:19 ◼   ► It's nice and all. I think it's fine, but especially at 10 minutes long, if you're going

00:16:24 ◼   ► to use it as a something to represent your company. No one's going to watch that 10-minute

00:16:29 ◼   ► long video. Very few people are, I think.

00:16:31 ◼   ► Well, except you and me, apparently. Certainly not Marco.

00:16:33 ◼   ► I haven't even watched it. I have so many Apple videos that I want to watch. I still

00:16:39 ◼   ► have like eight or nine sessions that I wanted to watch that I didn't get a chance to see.

00:16:43 ◼   ► Yeah. See, that's another thing I'm doing instead of writing.

00:16:44 ◼   ► I felt the entire plane ride home, I was watching sessions. And even like the day after I got

00:16:50 ◼   ► home watching sessions. See, now remember we were talking before about how once you

00:16:55 ◼   ► leave that week, it's no longer your job to be in those sessions, and so you just never

00:17:00 ◼   ► get around to doing it. Well, I'm seeing that now. I have these eight more sessions that

00:17:04 ◼   ► I really want to watch, but when's going to be a good time to do it?

00:17:08 ◼   ► I'm assigning it to you. It's your job, since you don't have any other job.

00:17:11 ◼   ► Hey, you're unemployed. What else do you have to do?

00:17:13 ◼   ► That's right. Exactly. I'm supposed to be making an app or something, but I'm saying,

00:17:16 ◼   ► That job starts in a few weeks.

00:17:18 ◼   ► This week, your job is to watch WRC.

00:17:20 ◼   ► And then give Jon the cliff notes for anything

00:17:22 ◼   ► related to this team.

00:17:23 ◼   ► No, I've got to watch it myself.

00:17:25 ◼   ► I know you do.

00:17:26 ◼   ► All right, there were a couple other videos

00:17:28 ◼   ► I wanted to briefly touch on.

00:17:29 ◼   ► The first was-- I don't remember if they showed this

00:17:31 ◼   ► during the keynote.

00:17:32 ◼   ► I believe they did at the very end,

00:17:33 ◼   ► but the new commercial about design

00:17:35 ◼   ► by Apple in California.

00:17:37 ◼   ► And this kind of ties in with the one

00:17:39 ◼   ► we mentioned at the beginning, and that

00:17:40 ◼   ► was at the beginning of the keynote, where they said,

00:17:43 ◼   ► at the end of the video, something along the lines of,

00:17:45 ◼   ► only then we sign our work, and then they flash up

00:17:47 ◼   ► "Designed by Apple in California."

00:17:49 ◼   ► In this other video, they show people

00:17:52 ◼   ► just using their products in everyday things

00:17:54 ◼   ► and everyday scenarios.

00:17:55 ◼   ► And again, at the end, it's "Designed

00:17:56 ◼   ► by Apple in California."

00:17:58 ◼   ► So one of the things you can easily

00:17:59 ◼   ► see between these two videos that literally bookended

00:18:02 ◼   ► the keynote and then OS X Mavericks,

00:18:04 ◼   ► which was in the middle-- by the way, I still hate that name.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Anyway, all of this is "Go California, Ye California,

00:18:10 ◼   ► Ye California."

00:18:11 ◼   ► And why or when did they get so excited about California?

00:18:15 ◼   ► Not to say that's bad before we get

00:18:17 ◼   ► a zillion angry Californians, but when

00:18:20 ◼   ► did this become a thing?

00:18:21 ◼   ► That's been on the back of their products

00:18:23 ◼   ► since Jobs came back practically,

00:18:25 ◼   ► or maybe even more of that.

00:18:26 ◼   ► But I mean, it seems like there's

00:18:28 ◼   ► a new emphasis behind it.

00:18:29 ◼   ► And I don't know what brought that on.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Well, it's less about California and more about made in the USA

00:18:34 ◼   ► at this point, I think.

00:18:36 ◼   ► I mean, the California pride has always been there.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And you're right, that was a lot of jobs right there.

00:18:41 ◼   ► But I think at this point, this is them saying,

00:18:44 ◼   ► kind of responding to all the Chinese worker controversy

00:18:48 ◼   ► kind of things in the last year, saying, you know what?

00:18:51 ◼   ► No, we can bring something to the US.

00:18:52 ◼   ► And now, this is something they can say,

00:18:54 ◼   ► especially with the Mac Pro, now they can really say,

00:18:58 ◼   ► look, this is like a whole US computer right here.

00:19:01 ◼   ► As long as you don't check where the--

00:19:04 ◼   ► Where all the components inside it.

00:19:05 ◼   ► --was made.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, because what else?

00:19:08 ◼   ► So it's like, what, the ASIC CPUs, I think,

00:19:11 ◼   ► aren't they manufactured in Texas?

00:19:12 ◼   ► They are, but what about all the RAM, the flash and the DRAM?

00:19:17 ◼   ► This gets back to what Casey just said about,

00:19:19 ◼   ► like, he liked the video because it showed a part where

00:19:21 ◼   ► he lived.

00:19:22 ◼   ► Like, this silly notion that we have of attachment to place

00:19:27 ◼   ► and extension into jingoism and nationalism of pride

00:19:32 ◼   ► in countries, really pretty much nonsensical

00:19:35 ◼   ► if you think about it for more than 10 minutes.

00:19:37 ◼   ► But it is definitely a real thing.

00:19:38 ◼   ► So I don't blame them for playing into it.

00:19:42 ◼   ► But in the cynical view, as Marco said, you can view it as damage control for the Chinese

00:19:47 ◼   ► factory things or whatever.

00:19:48 ◼   ► Pride in California is no more or less ridiculous than pride in the United States is probably

00:19:53 ◼   ► no more or less ridiculous than pride is made on earth.

00:19:57 ◼   ► It doesn't really matter where it's made or where you're from or anything like that.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Is it a good product?

00:20:01 ◼   ► Is it not a good product?

00:20:02 ◼   ► Are you treating workers well?

00:20:03 ◼   ► You're not treating workers well.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Our country needs to have a good economy, so keep the business in our company, not in

00:20:08 ◼   ► Stonehenge's country because of imaginary lines or oceans or whatever.

00:20:16 ◼   ► I find that's why designing California bothers me a little bit.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Who cares?

00:20:21 ◼   ► What is it about the borders of California that exist for historical reasons that have

00:20:26 ◼   ► nothing to do with anything that makes you proud that the people who made it were in

00:20:30 ◼   ► California when they made it and perhaps live somewhere else now and perhaps were born somewhere

00:20:34 ◼   ► else. As Dented Meat said in the chat room, I'm so ready to join Starfleet, apparently.

00:20:41 ◼   ► I think the Buy California takes away from their message. What they are is they're proud

00:20:50 ◼   ► that we made this thing, and this thing is good in these ways. They show the people using

00:20:53 ◼   ► their products and having fun with them. It's also beautifully shot, and all the people

00:20:57 ◼   ► are beautiful. That part of it is a legitimate message. "Hey, we made something nice, and

00:21:03 ◼   ► products enhance people's lives. So thumbs up, right guys? That's advertising. It's

00:21:08 ◼   ► fine. You can see it on Mad Men. But the geographic part of it, I find a little off-putting, but

00:21:14 ◼   ► probably other people don't.

00:21:15 ◼   ► Well, California is itself also part of the advertising. And it's not like they chose

00:21:20 ◼   ► California just for this, but I think they're using it to their advantage now that they're

00:21:25 ◼   ► there. California has a really great reputation among, I think, most people, most Americans

00:21:30 ◼   ► especially, of being this really nice place,

00:21:34 ◼   ► and kind of this cool place, and this kind of liberal, hippie,

00:21:37 ◼   ► but cool, great weather place.

00:21:40 ◼   ► And that's the way things happen.

00:21:41 ◼   ► Except for LA, right?

00:21:42 ◼   ► Are we leaving out LA?

00:21:43 ◼   ► Who cares about LA?

00:21:46 ◼   ► No.

00:21:48 ◼   ► There aren't that many states in the US

00:21:51 ◼   ► with that great of a reputation, where you can say, oh, yeah,

00:21:55 ◼   ► we're from Minnesota.

00:21:56 ◼   ► And you're going to have everyone in the whole country

00:21:59 ◼   ► saying, "Wow, Minnesota, they made that in Minnesota? That's so cool." This isn't

00:22:03 ◼   ► a major effect or a major part of their marketing or branding efforts, but it is a small contributor.

00:22:11 ◼   ► And especially in the wake of both the Chinese worker thing and the wake of Samsung becoming

00:22:16 ◼   ► this major competitor, this is them saying, "Don't support that Korean company. We're

00:22:22 ◼   ► an American company in California."

00:22:23 ◼   ► Yeah, don't you find that slightly off-putting? That's where it starts to get into... Anyway,

00:22:28 ◼   ► I think it's fine.

00:22:29 ◼   ► Well, I find it off-putting that all of our politicians have to end everything with "God

00:22:32 ◼   ► bless America."

00:22:33 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that's a little older.

00:22:36 ◼   ► But you can see why they do it.

00:22:38 ◼   ► Send email to Marco, please.

00:22:42 ◼   ► I think the California thing, to my memory, came in around the time Jobs came back again

00:22:48 ◼   ► and has stayed throughout.

00:22:50 ◼   ► It's shorthand for "We're proud that we did this," and they need some way to identify

00:22:55 ◼   ► themselves, and they are a California company founded in California, and so that's what

00:22:59 ◼   ► they've chosen, because their employees come and go, their executives come and go,

00:23:03 ◼   ► a lot of the people who work there weren't born in California.

00:23:06 ◼   ► They don't have much to hang their hat on, but insofar as a corporation can be seen as

00:23:11 ◼   ► an entity with a place, Apple's place is California.

00:23:13 ◼   ► So that's their shorthand for trying to refer back to themselves and their tribe as

00:23:18 ◼   ► a collective entity.

00:23:19 ◼   ► Well, and to that end, I mean, when you think of California and you think of business, other

00:23:23 ◼   ► than Hollywood and perhaps music, what's your first thought?

00:23:27 ◼   ► I'm a kiddo, so I don't know.

00:23:30 ◼   ► Fine.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Alright, never mind then.

00:23:32 ◼   ► No, but I mean, when I think of a big, well, maybe not a big business, but when I think

00:23:36 ◼   ► of business in California, I think Hollywood, I think music, and I think Apple.

00:23:41 ◼   ► And I would think that most Americans would agree.

00:23:44 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:23:45 ◼   ► Alright, there's one other video I wanted to ask you guys about, and then perhaps Marco

00:23:49 ◼   ► you can tell me about something that's cool.

00:23:51 ◼   ► But the other one I wanted to ask about is today, which again is quite a long time before

00:23:56 ◼   ► most of you will actually hear this episode, the trailer for the Ashton Kutcher Steve Jobs

00:24:01 ◼   ► movie came out.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Did either of you see this two-minute trailer?

00:24:04 ◼   ► Please, Mark O'Tommi.

00:24:05 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:24:06 ◼   ► I did watch it.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Didn't I thought that maybe this is that other Steve Jobs movie, you know, the good

00:24:11 ◼   ► one because didn't this show in a film festival and everyone panned it like a year ago?

00:24:15 ◼   ► Well, like, "Panzerino," I think, said mixed about it.

00:24:18 ◼   ► He said it was—if memory serves, he said it was entertaining but not great.

00:24:22 ◼   ► I never had high hopes for this movie, and the trailer did not change my mind about that.

00:24:27 ◼   ► I don't think I'll even bother watching it.

00:24:29 ◼   ► So our friend Brad that—well, Jon, you've never met him, but Marco and I and David Smith

00:24:35 ◼   ► went and spent some time with Brad the Sunday before WWDC.

00:24:39 ◼   ► He had commented on Twitter that the musical selections were just terrible, or the musical

00:24:46 ◼   ► editing was terrible, and I think he's right.

00:24:48 ◼   ► I actually didn't think the trailer was bad. I mean, it is clearly taking a lot of creative

00:24:52 ◼   ► license with the actual reality of what happened. But I don't know, I thought it would be enjoyable.

00:24:58 ◼   ► So here's the question, Casey. If you were tasked with making a parody of this trailer,

00:25:03 ◼   ► how would you do it?

00:25:04 ◼   ► I would have made the same trailer.

00:25:05 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying. It is not, like, it is so overblown. And like, ignore the fact

00:25:11 ◼   ► that it's just, like, the people who made the movie just, I mean, clearly the people

00:25:14 ◼   ► who made this movie do not and cannot understand what it was that was important about all these

00:25:19 ◼   ► things that Apple did, which is fine, I guess, because if other people don't care, like,

00:25:23 ◼   ► just treat it as fiction. But even within the realm of fiction, it's so overblown where

00:25:26 ◼   ► everyone is just screaming and so emotional and dramatic about things, and they're saying

00:25:31 ◼   ► nonsense the whole time, right? Because, again, people, they don't understand what was important

00:25:35 ◼   ► about the Apple, what was important about the Mac, what was important about the iPhone.

00:25:39 ◼   ► They have no idea, like, no earthly clue. It's kind of like the Steve Jobs biography

00:25:42 ◼   ► where, but even more extreme, the Eilikson biography, where if you don't understand

00:25:47 ◼   ► what was important about the original Mac, there's no way you can make a movie about

00:25:50 ◼   ► it, right?

00:25:51 ◼   ► Well, but that's not their—their goal is not to be accurate. Their goal is to be,

00:25:53 ◼   ► is to be, like, good to watch, to be an interesting movie.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Well, like, it's like, based on a true story, but it's not, it's not like, you know,

00:25:59 ◼   ► a res—I think it's not so much—that's not the case in a lot of other movies. Like,

00:26:03 ◼   ► a lot of political dramas or things about important parts in American history, like,

00:26:08 ◼   ► like the Lincoln movie, which I didn't see. I'm assuming that that movie understood

00:26:12 ◼   ► that what was important about the civil war was like you know keeping the union

00:26:15 ◼   ► together and slavery and like the major issues were there and understood right

00:26:19 ◼   ► but because it's about technology and it's

00:26:23 ◼   ► it's not as important as the things that everyone can relate to it they don't

00:26:26 ◼   ► know what was important what was important about the apple to they're not

00:26:28 ◼   ► quite sure

00:26:29 ◼   ► uh... but they know is important you know people got rich from it

00:26:32 ◼   ► and they know something with nerds and electricity and so let's just go you

00:26:36 ◼   ► know i mean whereas no one's like something about slavery but was slavery

00:26:39 ◼   ► I think slavery was bad. Like, I don't remember. Something about that. But anyway, that's not

00:26:43 ◼   ► really important. We just want to show the dramatic scenes of Abraham Lincoln. No! You

00:26:46 ◼   ► have to understand what's behind it. Otherwise, you're not, you know, you're making a movie

00:26:49 ◼   ► loosely based on the Civil War and Abraham Lincoln not really, you know, so, whatever.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Like, I don't think this movie is going to make any waves. It will come and go. We will

00:26:58 ◼   ► forget it, mercifully.

00:26:59 ◼   ► John: How about just a blanket rule that I'm just going to not even watch any trailers

00:27:04 ◼   ► for any of these Steve Jobs various things. Just if anybody makes a good one, just let

00:27:07 ◼   ► me know afterwards.

00:27:08 ◼   ► There's the the Sorkin one. Isn't he doing one? Yes. Yes. Yes. He did

00:27:13 ◼   ► He didn't know this is not that he did the Facebook's are there. No, this is a terrible one with Ashton Kutcher

00:27:19 ◼   ► Well, no, no, no, that's not fair

00:27:20 ◼   ► There was one made by funny or die that I wasn't dumb enough to watch in its entirety and I want that hour back

00:27:26 ◼   ► It's supposed to be a joke like it is and it was so

00:27:30 ◼   ► Painfully bad and the comedy of it is Justin Long is Steve Jobs Justin Long the I'm a Mac Justin Long was Steve Jobs

00:27:37 ◼   ► And I should have known from the title, which I think was "I, Jobs," that it was going to be friggin' terrible.

00:27:43 ◼   ► And "friggin' terrible" doesn't begin to describe how bad that movie was.

00:27:47 ◼   ► It's like an SNL skit that goes on for an hour.

00:27:49 ◼   ► Yes, but during that terrible time in SNL when it was not even in the realm of funny.

00:27:54 ◼   ► Oh, God, I don't even--I feel like John Syracuse right now. I'm so fired up and angry about this.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Well, let's take a break from talking about terrible entertainment.

00:28:02 ◼   ► Yes, let's do that.

00:28:03 ◼   ► To talk about good entertainment.

00:28:04 ◼   ► And this episode is sponsored by Audible.

00:28:08 ◼   ► They're the leading provider of downloadable audiobooks.

00:28:10 ◼   ► They have over 100,000 titles in virtually every genre.

00:28:14 ◼   ► So if you want to listen to something, Audible has it.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Listen to audiobooks anytime, anywhere.

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00:28:21 ◼   ► Kindles, lots of things.

00:28:23 ◼   ► Even the old iPods, they even work on those.

00:28:25 ◼   ► They're offering ATP listeners a free audiobook,

00:28:28 ◼   ► along with a 30-day trial.

00:28:31 ◼   ► Go to audiblepodcast.com/ATP to take advantage of the special offer.

00:28:36 ◼   ► Get a free audiobook, free 30-day trial, audiblepodcast.com/ATP.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Now Audible likes if their hosts have something to recommend, a certain book.

00:28:47 ◼   ► It helps to get started because then you know, like, OK, what do you want your free audiobook

00:28:50 ◼   ► to be?

00:28:52 ◼   ► So do you guys have any great recommendations of great audiobooks you've heard recently?

00:28:58 ◼   ► I have recommendations of books I've read.

00:29:00 ◼   ► I've not heard them on audiobooks, but I'm confident that they are excellent.

00:29:03 ◼   ► I have two.

00:29:05 ◼   ► The first one, which everyone will judge me for, is the new Dan Brown book, which I believe

00:29:09 ◼   ► is called Inferno.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Judge, judge, judge.

00:29:11 ◼   ► I know, I know.

00:29:15 ◼   ► So I actually quite like that one, but I'm a sucker for Dan Brown books.

00:29:18 ◼   ► They're easy reads, they're exciting, and so I like that.

00:29:22 ◼   ► The other one is a book that my wife recommended, which is called The Art of Racing in the Rain,

00:29:29 ◼   ► And it was a little bit on the emotional side and a little less on the racing side, but

00:29:34 ◼   ► there was enough racing to keep me excited and entertained.

00:29:38 ◼   ► And I actually really like that one as well, so I would recommend both of those.

00:29:41 ◼   ► That's so you.

00:29:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:29:43 ◼   ► So here's what Audible is good for.

00:29:47 ◼   ► I would never recommend someone read this recommendation, I'm going to say, but on

00:29:51 ◼   ► audio, this is the ideal place for it.

00:29:54 ◼   ► So what I did when I was looking at this, I went to the Audible Ocon website and I searched

00:29:59 ◼   ► for Stephen King, who's one of my favorite authors.

00:30:01 ◼   ► Again, feel free to judge.

00:30:02 ◼   ► And I got 145 results, which I guess doesn't surprise me, because he's got a lot of books,

00:30:09 ◼   ► but they have—I mean, I don't know if they have all of them, but they have a lot,

00:30:12 ◼   ► all right?

00:30:13 ◼   ► And what I'm going to recommend is the Dark Tower series by Stephen King, which is like

00:30:16 ◼   ► a gazillion pages.

00:30:18 ◼   ► And if I line them up on the shelf in hardcover and I said, "Oh, you should really read

00:30:21 ◼   ► this book series," you'd be like, "Okay, whatever.

00:30:23 ◼   ► There's no way I am reading that, because it's just too much.

00:30:27 ◼   ► You can recommend one book and they're like, "Oh, maybe I'll read it and see if I like

00:30:29 ◼   ► it," but recommending a seven-book series that took place basically over the course

00:30:33 ◼   ► of my entire life, from 1970s and it ended in the 2000s.

00:30:39 ◼   ► But an audio, they have every single one of these in audio, and if you're on a long car

00:30:43 ◼   ► trip or you're going to be traveling or you're just going to listen to it over the summer

00:30:47 ◼   ► at the beach or when you're out mowing the lawn, you just get every single one of the

00:30:50 ◼   ► seven books and just plow through them.

00:30:53 ◼   ► That is probably the only way most people are ever going to read a multi-thousand-page

00:30:58 ◼   ► epic like The Dark Tower.

00:31:01 ◼   ► We haven't done the Incomparable podcast about this series yet.

00:31:04 ◼   ► We will eventually.

00:31:06 ◼   ► I think it's great.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Even when it goes off the rails a little bit, I think it all comes together in the end.

00:31:11 ◼   ► So that's my recommendation.

00:31:12 ◼   ► JAYLEE STEWART-G

00:31:14 ◼   ► that one reason I do like audiobooks, especially, first of all, traveling and cars and everything,

00:31:19 ◼   ► it's awesome for all that, but one thing I like about them is I actually like when

00:31:22 ◼   ► a lot of books are abridged, because a lot of books need to be abridged.

00:31:25 ◼   ► No, I hate when they're abridged. I was going to specifically mention these Darktar

00:31:30 ◼   ► ones are unabridged, which I like, but I guess Audible has both, so if you're the kind

00:31:34 ◼   ► of person who doesn't want to hear all the words in the book, then they have that for

00:31:38 ◼   ► you, but I highly recommend the unabridged.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Hudge, hudge, hudge.

00:31:40 ◼   ► The unabridged. Show title, there you go.

00:31:43 ◼   ► Alright, well thank you very much to Audible for sponsoring this episode of ATP. To get

00:31:48 ◼   ► a free audiobook and 30-day trial, go to audiblepodcast.com/ATP. Thanks a lot.

00:31:54 ◼   ► Alright, so what's next?

00:31:56 ◼   ► Alright, so the other thing I wanted to ask you guys about, and perhaps more Marco than

00:32:01 ◼   ► anyone else since you haven't done any of your other homework, is what do you suspect

00:32:08 ◼   ► people will do—and I think we've touched on this briefly—but what do you suspect

00:32:11 ◼   ► app developers will do with regard to dropping support of old versions of iOS when iOS 7

00:32:17 ◼   ► comes out.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I feel like we've glanced off the outer atmosphere of this topic, but I think there's more to

00:32:23 ◼   ► be said.

00:32:24 ◼   ► So let's suppose that you haven't sold everything that you own, and let's suppose you still

00:32:30 ◼   ► had at least one popular app, be that Insta-something else or Instapaper or whatever.

00:32:36 ◼   ► What do you think you would do?

00:32:37 ◼   ► I mean, you've said in the 300 other podcasts you were on this week that you're probably

00:32:41 ◼   ► probably going to stick with iOS 7 for this new thing.

00:32:44 ◼   ► Definitely.

00:32:45 ◼   ► But what do you think you would do if you had a successful existing iOS app?

00:32:54 ◼   ► That's a really good question.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Because, yeah, obviously, I think if you're making a new app and you have no legacy to

00:33:00 ◼   ► support, I would say no question, make a brand new one and require iOS 7, period.

00:33:07 ◼   ► No question?

00:33:08 ◼   ► No.

00:33:09 ◼   ► You can't say no question.

00:33:10 ◼   ► say you're EA and you're going to release a game, you've got to support iOS 7. So you're

00:33:14 ◼   ► talking to an independent developer, like a one or two person shop, making an application,

00:33:19 ◼   ► yeah, then they should go iOS 7 only. But--

00:33:21 ◼   ► And especially I am also referring to applications where they aren't custom making most of their

00:33:29 ◼   ► entire interface. Like, you know, a game has usually an entirely custom interface that

00:33:34 ◼   ► doesn't use any standard widgets or anything, at least in most cases.

00:33:38 ◼   ► But even not a game.

00:33:39 ◼   ► Like, say Evernote didn't exist, but they formed a company six months ago, and they're

00:33:44 ◼   ► about to come out with their first product.

00:33:45 ◼   ► It's going to be called Evernote.

00:33:46 ◼   ► It's a note-taking type of thing.

00:33:50 ◼   ► And I would still say don't make it iOS 7 only.

00:33:52 ◼   ► I think that is a luxury that you have if you know that—well, you'll get into this,

00:33:59 ◼   ► I'm sure, eventually, because the other side of this coin is you can stand out from the

00:34:04 ◼   ► the pack by being iOS 7 only and being the only app that

00:34:06 ◼   ► accurately links up with iOS.

00:34:08 ◼   ► But I guess Microsoft Office would be another example,

00:34:11 ◼   ► even though their new iOS office is not all that impressive.

00:34:14 ◼   ► If Microsoft Office came out like the real Microsoft Office,

00:34:17 ◼   ► not just like a SkyDrive application that

00:34:18 ◼   ► lets you view and minimally edit apps,

00:34:21 ◼   ► they have to support iOS 6.

00:34:23 ◼   ► They can't say, oh, no, Microsoft Office for iOS 7 only,

00:34:26 ◼   ► because that offers no advantage and it

00:34:29 ◼   ► offers a mostly disadvantage.

00:34:30 ◼   ► So it's not quite as universal, I think, as you're saying.

00:34:32 ◼   ► But for you, it definitely is universal.

00:34:34 ◼   ► And for lots of other people, it's

00:34:37 ◼   ► a way to stand out from the pack.

00:34:38 ◼   ► Because if you were the first to-do app that is truly

00:34:40 ◼   ► iOS 7 native in look, feel, and functionality,

00:34:43 ◼   ► you stand out more than if you just make another to-do app

00:34:45 ◼   ► that works on iOS 6 and 7.

00:34:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:48 ◼   ► And part of it also is about why your app exists.

00:34:54 ◼   ► If you are somebody like Evernote, or like Instagram,

00:34:57 ◼   ► or Twitter, like a big web service,

00:35:01 ◼   ► where your primary business is not selling your app for a few bucks, your primary business

00:35:05 ◼   ► is this big web service, especially if it's something social where you need to have as

00:35:09 ◼   ► many people as possible, then you should be compatible with as many versions as possible.

00:35:15 ◼   ► Then you might still need to run an iOS 5, who knows? Probably not 5, but you at least

00:35:20 ◼   ► couldn't go 7 only so soon because that would really hurt your bottom line to lose all those

00:35:26 ◼   ► free users, that would hurt the bigger product too much,

00:35:30 ◼   ► probably, for a while.

00:35:32 ◼   ► And similarly, if you're that kind of company,

00:35:35 ◼   ► you should probably also have an Android app and a Windows

00:35:37 ◼   ► Phone app and even a Windows 8 app,

00:35:41 ◼   ► because you need to be everywhere.

00:35:44 ◼   ► But for most people, most iOS developers

00:35:48 ◼   ► are in one of two situations.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Either they're doing contract work for somebody else,

00:35:53 ◼   ► which is, I would assume, based on just anecdotal evidence

00:35:58 ◼   ► and talking to people everywhere,

00:36:00 ◼   ► I would assume that contractors are probably

00:36:03 ◼   ► the bulk of the people programming for iOS.

00:36:05 ◼   ► If not the majority, I bet they're a massive portion.

00:36:12 ◼   ► Anyway, so if you're contracting for somebody else,

00:36:14 ◼   ► you might not be able to make this choice, or at least not

00:36:17 ◼   ► yet, or you might not be able to be that aggressive with it.

00:36:20 ◼   ► So that'll just depend on your client

00:36:23 ◼   ► on your business needs.

00:36:24 ◼   ► But if you're in the segment of developers,

00:36:26 ◼   ► like what I usually do, which is you sell an app for money,

00:36:31 ◼   ► in some form, whether it's the magazine with an app purchase

00:36:34 ◼   ► or something else with an app purchase

00:36:36 ◼   ► or whether it's a few bucks up front for the app,

00:36:38 ◼   ► like Vesper, Instapaper, that kind of stuff.

00:36:41 ◼   ► If you're in that business where you need to make money

00:36:43 ◼   ► from the app and you're better off having a better app

00:36:48 ◼   ► that people will talk about and think is worth money

00:36:51 ◼   ► and you're better off targeting people who will spend money on an app,

00:36:55 ◼   ► then not only does that weight you more towards newer devices

00:36:59 ◼   ► and people who upgrade quickly anyway,

00:37:02 ◼   ► but then you really can stand out by, as you said,

00:37:04 ◼   ► you really can stand out by having a really, really nice iOS 7 app

00:37:09 ◼   ► from early on in that OS's release cycle.

00:37:13 ◼   ► So if you're in that kind of situation,

00:37:18 ◼   ► and obviously I think it's very important to recognize

00:37:20 ◼   ► whether you are or not.

00:37:22 ◼   ► But if you're in that kind of situation where you can benefit

00:37:25 ◼   ► from having a really great app for the new OS

00:37:27 ◼   ► and you're targeting people with money,

00:37:29 ◼   ► then I think it's very safe to require it within about a month

00:37:34 ◼   ► of the launch.

00:37:35 ◼   ► I think one thing everyone can agree on,

00:37:37 ◼   ► assuming Apple's numbers are accurate

00:37:39 ◼   ► and I have no reason to doubt them,

00:37:40 ◼   ► is that it's probably safe for everyone,

00:37:43 ◼   ► if you're making a new application, to drop iOS 5.

00:37:46 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:37:47 ◼   ► because 6, 93%, it doesn't matter who you are,

00:37:51 ◼   ► that's safe at this point.

00:37:55 ◼   ► Unless you're targeting the iPad,

00:37:56 ◼   ► then it's a little bit less safe.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess if you have an app that's iPad only,

00:38:00 ◼   ► and specifically targeted to people

00:38:01 ◼   ► who are likely to have old iPads.

00:38:03 ◼   ► But it's not going to get any safer than that.

00:38:05 ◼   ► When are you going to have a higher number than that

00:38:07 ◼   ► in adoption?

00:38:08 ◼   ► As a lot of people were pointing out on Twitter today--

00:38:11 ◼   ► maybe it's just one person.

00:38:12 ◼   ► I cannot keep track before I read these things.

00:38:14 ◼   ► iOS 7 probably won't be like that,

00:38:16 ◼   ► Because iOS 6 stretched back pretty far,

00:38:18 ◼   ► like a surprisingly far amount down to lower, crappier devices.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Whereas iOS 7 draws the line a little bit closer up.

00:38:24 ◼   ► And so we'll have to wait for those old devices to age out.

00:38:27 ◼   ► And it will probably be a long, long time before iOS 7 or greater.

00:38:31 ◼   ► That's not true.

00:38:32 ◼   ► You don't think so?

00:38:33 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:38:34 ◼   ► I'm thinking specifically of my cruddy iPod Touch that runs

00:38:38 ◼   ► iOS 6 and totally shouldn't.

00:38:40 ◼   ► The 3GS?

00:38:41 ◼   ► No, well, iPod Touch--

00:38:43 ◼   ► No, no, no, I'm saying--

00:38:45 ◼   ► 3GS is the other example, like that it could run iOS 6,

00:38:48 ◼   ► but you know.

00:38:49 ◼   ► But what does 7 go down to though?

00:38:51 ◼   ► It goes down to the iPhone 4.

00:38:53 ◼   ► - It supports everything that 6 does,

00:38:54 ◼   ► except the 3GS and that iPhone 4 cord touch.

00:38:58 ◼   ► - And any iPod touch except for the most reason.

00:39:01 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, yeah, the one that was based

00:39:02 ◼   ► on the iPhone 4 internals.

00:39:04 ◼   ► It does not support that one.

00:39:05 ◼   ► But it supports all the recent ones,

00:39:07 ◼   ► which is, everything has been for sale

00:39:09 ◼   ► except for the cheapest one until two weeks ago.

00:39:11 ◼   ► - Well, the only iPod touch it supports

00:39:13 ◼   ► is the absolute most recent one.

00:39:15 ◼   ► It doesn't support any of the--

00:39:16 ◼   ► Yes, but that's a little bit distorted

00:39:17 ◼   ► because they skipped a year of the iPod Touch,

00:39:19 ◼   ► which, as you know--

00:39:21 ◼   ► Maybe my view of things is--

00:39:22 ◼   ► maybe my view of things is also skewed because I'm an iPod

00:39:25 ◼   ► Touch household.

00:39:26 ◼   ► So it seems to me it's like if they came out with Mavericks

00:39:29 ◼   ► and the only Macs it ran on are the absolute latest model

00:39:32 ◼   ► that they're still currently selling in each product line.

00:39:34 ◼   ► And you feel that way.

00:39:35 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:39:36 ◼   ► But the proof is in the pudding.

00:39:38 ◼   ► How well does it run is what really matters.

00:39:40 ◼   ► Because I wish I had not upgraded my old Touched

00:39:43 ◼   ► iOS 6 because it chugs. And so, yeah, it can run it, and I was initially happy that it

00:39:49 ◼   ► was supported. And I guess I probably still am because there are probably a lot of apps

00:39:51 ◼   ► that are iOS 6 only. At least I can run them, but it is not happy at all.

00:39:56 ◼   ► Yeah. So, yeah, I think 7 cuts off about the same number of people, probably as 6 did.

00:40:04 ◼   ► And I don't--

00:40:05 ◼   ► If you're not an iPod touch user.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Well, but if you're an iPad user, it cuts off nothing. So, maybe that balances out.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Anyway, I'm not that worried about cutting off new devices for 7, because I don't think

00:40:17 ◼   ► it's substantially different than every other OS release in that regard. So yeah, I don't

00:40:24 ◼   ► know. And I think we are going to see some people holding back because they don't like

00:40:28 ◼   ► the changes. Just like some people held back because they heard about maps or whatever

00:40:33 ◼   ► on 6, or their jailbreaks don't work until a certain date afterwards or something like

00:40:39 ◼   ► Those are all going to be like small slices.

00:40:43 ◼   ► And they're all going to add up to something significant, but they're all going to deteriorate

00:40:47 ◼   ► over time. Like once there's a jailbreakout for seven, if there isn't

00:40:51 ◼   ► already, there might already be one. But once there's a jailbreakout,

00:40:55 ◼   ► then one of those big slices goes away. Once there's, you know,

00:40:59 ◼   ► to various degrees of tethering for the jailbreak, then

00:41:03 ◼   ► everything all changes. Once most people get a little more comfortable with the idea of

00:41:07 ◼   ► of how it looks, then another slice starts falling away.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Once a new device comes out that replaces something

00:41:13 ◼   ► that was old and unsupported, like maybe

00:41:16 ◼   ► when the next generation of iPod Touch comes out,

00:41:18 ◼   ► possibly this fall, who knows, maybe then

00:41:21 ◼   ► some of the old iPod Touch users who can't run the new one,

00:41:23 ◼   ► maybe they upgrade.

00:41:24 ◼   ► And so then that slice falls away.

00:41:26 ◼   ► And that's always what happens with every release.

00:41:28 ◼   ► There's always these segments of people

00:41:30 ◼   ► who either can't or won't run the new OS

00:41:32 ◼   ► for a limited amount of time until either they

00:41:35 ◼   ► change devices, their old device dies, or some condition changes that was holding them

00:41:39 ◼   ► back.

00:41:40 ◼   ► So the way you're talking, it almost sounds like if you still had Instapaper, you would

00:41:43 ◼   ► make it iOS 7.

00:41:44 ◼   ► Well, no. Instapaper still doesn't require iOS 6. Instapaper, I was set on requiring

00:41:51 ◼   ► 5 for a while. I forget when I started requiring 5, but it was before 6 was out, but not by

00:41:58 ◼   ► that much. I think a few months before 6 came out.

00:42:01 ◼   ► With the magazine, I was able to require six because I just didn't care and I wanted all

00:42:07 ◼   ► the new stuff and I wanted to use Avenir next without having to pay for it for iOS 5.

00:42:15 ◼   ► But again, I think there's a few different factors here, right?

00:42:21 ◼   ► Obviously, again, if you don't need tons and tons of people necessarily, if you just need

00:42:28 ◼   ► good app sales, that's different.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Instacaper was a brand new app being released today, I would probably require, well, today

00:42:36 ◼   ► I'd require six, but I don't know. I think if it already required six, and therefore

00:42:42 ◼   ► if it had already cut off all the iPad One people, then I wouldn't have that much of

00:42:47 ◼   ► a problem requiring seven within about two months of seven's release.

00:42:52 ◼   ► But you also have to consider that the fallback, or the, I can't think of the word I'm looking

00:42:59 ◼   ► for. But in order to support both iOS 7 and iOS 6, it stands to reason it's a lot more

00:43:04 ◼   ► challenging than simultaneously supporting 6 and 5. You know what I mean? So in other

00:43:09 ◼   ► words, two...

00:43:10 ◼   ► Well, not necessarily. I mean, it really depends, right? The magazine supports 7 with a very,

00:43:14 ◼   ► very small code change. It's literally just like, you know, it's hidden under the status

00:43:19 ◼   ► bar accidentally, so you've got to like change that. That's it. That's a very small change.

00:43:23 ◼   ► And you can conditionally do that, you know, if I'm running on 7, do this. Otherwise, do

00:43:27 ◼   ► this. You know, if there's few enough of those conditions, that's manageable. I think the

00:43:34 ◼   ► big problem with trying to support 7 and 6 at the same time isn't necessarily the code

00:43:40 ◼   ► complexity, because you can make that work. You know, for the most part, you can deal

00:43:44 ◼   ► with that. The big problem is by not fully adopting 7's new interface stuff, your app

00:43:52 ◼   ► will look old and feel old. That's the big problem. It's not about code. Well, it would

00:43:59 ◼   ► be about code if you actually need to rewrite, if you write two separate interfaces, then

00:44:03 ◼   ► it is about code. Please don't do that. But if it's just about, you know, we have to work

00:44:09 ◼   ► on both, then what you're going to have is an iOS 6 app that happens to be compatible

00:44:14 ◼   ► with 7, and it's going to look and feel like an iOS 6 app for the most part. You'll get

00:44:17 ◼   ► like the new bar styles once you compile it for 7 and stuff. But you won't have any of

00:44:24 ◼   ► the new navigation stuff. And it'll be a lot harder for you to add that in to an existing

00:44:31 ◼   ► code base that has to also run on 6 all the time.

00:44:33 ◼   ► But there's a potential pitfall in this, though, that you could also end up with, to use in

00:44:38 ◼   ► OS X analogy, an application full of drawers. Do you remember? Maybe that was before your

00:44:43 ◼   ► time. Do you remember the drawers in OS X?

00:44:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:46 ◼   ► They very heavily used the 10.3 days?

00:44:49 ◼   ► It was like one of their flagpole UI elements.

00:44:52 ◼   ► They said, here's Mac OS X, and it's

00:44:53 ◼   ► got a thing called Sheets that come down from the window.

00:44:55 ◼   ► That was a new element.

00:44:56 ◼   ► It's got this thing called the Dock.

00:44:57 ◼   ► That's new.

00:44:58 ◼   ► It's also got this thing called Drawers.

00:45:00 ◼   ► And the mail application, Apple's mail application,

00:45:02 ◼   ► originally featured a drawer.

00:45:03 ◼   ► And everybody said, oh, I'm going

00:45:04 ◼   ► to have these drawers in my application.

00:45:06 ◼   ► So any kind of application that would today have a sidebar

00:45:08 ◼   ► ended up with a drawer.

00:45:10 ◼   ► And drawers ended up being not such a great idea.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And so all these people were like,

00:45:14 ◼   ► I'm going to be a native application,

00:45:15 ◼   ► not going to be carbon application where I'm going to use it, it's going to be Kogo, and

00:45:18 ◼   ► I'm going to get to use drawers and do all this stuff and look at I'mNative. And then

00:45:21 ◼   ► everyone's like, yeah, no, not so much on that drawer thing. And then you're stuck with

00:45:25 ◼   ► an application with drawers and you go, oh, I've got to change this to a sidebar. So we

00:45:28 ◼   ► don't know what is the equivalent of drawers. If anything, maybe there's no equivalent of

00:45:31 ◼   ► drawer in iOS 7. There might be something in there that's like that, that seems like

00:45:36 ◼   ► a good idea, and everyone jumps in the bandwagon and says, oh, look at this, I'mNative, I'm

00:45:40 ◼   ► a real iOS 7 application. And then everyone goes, ooh, actually not so great. And then

00:45:44 ◼   ► you're forced to rewrite parts of your UI because that entire interface element or some

00:45:49 ◼   ► aspect of it falls out of favor or is determined to not be a good idea.

00:45:53 ◼   ► Not that that argues against doing it.

00:45:54 ◼   ► You really should go whole hog into iOS 7 because someone's got to find out if there

00:45:59 ◼   ► are any drawers to continue to talk to this analogy lurking.

00:46:03 ◼   ► The only way you're going to find out is for people to make real applications using the

00:46:06 ◼   ► system that Apple has devised, and we'll find out what works and what doesn't, right?

00:46:11 ◼   ► If I were to wager a guess, I think what will happen is a lot of these big apps, say like

00:46:16 ◼   ► Evernote, maybe that's a little too big, but take Instapaper for example, maybe they'll

00:46:21 ◼   ► try to dance the, you know, "We'll still look like iOS 6 for the most part.

00:46:27 ◼   ► We're not going to look like the fancy new iOS 7 thing."

00:46:30 ◼   ► And I don't think that's going to work for very long.

00:46:31 ◼   ► I think that even your average customer is going to say, "Why does this look so old?

00:46:36 ◼   ► Why doesn't it look better?"

00:46:38 ◼   ► And I suspect that people will hedge in the direction of not requiring iOS 7.

00:46:44 ◼   ► And then Marco, I think you'll end up right, that people will quickly end up requiring

00:46:47 ◼   ► it after just a couple months.

00:46:50 ◼   ► And also, it's going to take a little while for developers to realize what they should

00:46:55 ◼   ► do under iOS 7.

00:46:57 ◼   ► This is why I've said, as soon as we get beta 2, which actually might be before this

00:47:00 ◼   ► podcast is released, but as soon as we get beta 2, I'm installing it on my main phone,

00:47:05 ◼   ► because I need to start learning it.

00:47:07 ◼   ► I have it on this 4S, but I hardly ever use the 4S for anything because it has no data

00:47:11 ◼   ► plans. It's basically an iPod touch, but I have an iPhone. So it's never in my pocket.

00:47:16 ◼   ► I'm never using it. I need to immerse myself in iOS 7 as a user so I can start to understand

00:47:23 ◼   ► how my app should be. It's going to take developers a while to get into that, I think.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Tim Cynova Do the 4S and the 5 have the same size SIM?

00:47:34 ◼   ► I don't remember.

00:47:35 ◼   ► I'm not sure. I guess I could pop it over if I do.

00:47:37 ◼   ► That's what I was going to say is if it were me, I mean, I don't have a--

00:47:40 ◼   ► But it's so chunky.

00:47:42 ◼   ► The screen's so short.

00:47:44 ◼   ► Oh, it's so terrible.

00:47:46 ◼   ► The short screen is the one that's going to kill you.

00:47:48 ◼   ► I still like the four design better than the five design in terms of, like, an object.

00:47:54 ◼   ► But yeah, the short screen, you're like, you can't go back once you get the taller one.

00:47:59 ◼   ► It's going to be the same way when the iPhone Plus comes out.

00:48:01 ◼   ► By the way, the chat is correcting us that actually know that they're not the same sim size.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Oh, then you won't have to suffer through the small screen then.

00:48:08 ◼   ► Keep in mind that my carry phone is a 4S, you spoiled jerks.

00:48:12 ◼   ► That's alright. You'll probably upgrade this fall, right?

00:48:15 ◼   ► Are you on a two-year cycle? Yes, sir.

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00:49:22 ◼   ► And best of all, it's really, really easy to use.

00:49:24 ◼   ► You can just send an invitation to somebody

00:49:26 ◼   ► that you want to share a folder with or anything,

00:49:28 ◼   ► and they accept it, and that's it.

00:49:30 ◼   ► So obviously, there's an obvious comparison here to Dropbox.

00:49:34 ◼   ► And what I love about Transporter

00:49:36 ◼   ► is that they are not afraid for us to talk about Dropbox.

00:49:39 ◼   ► They aren't afraid to themselves talk about Dropbox

00:49:42 ◼   ► and how they compare, because obviously one question is,

00:49:44 ◼   ► why not just use Dropbox?

00:49:46 ◼   ► They attack this question head on

00:49:47 ◼   ► because they are confident in their product

00:49:49 ◼   ► to say there actually are a lot of advantages here.

00:49:52 ◼   ► So one of the biggest advantages is that you own and control

00:49:55 ◼   ► the hardware.

00:49:56 ◼   ► And that gives you a level of control and privacy that you really can't get with most

00:50:00 ◼   ► other services, including Dropbox.

00:50:02 ◼   ► And any time data is transmitted, you can have two transporters that share a folder.

00:50:07 ◼   ► So then the files will sync every time you modify something.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Or you can have a transporter at home and be somewhere like on your iPad or your laptop

00:50:16 ◼   ► and pull files off of it using one of their apps.

00:50:18 ◼   ► What's great about this is the file never passes through transporter servers.

00:50:22 ◼   ► And all data along the way is encrypted end to end.

00:50:26 ◼   ► And only you have the key.

00:50:27 ◼   ► And it's only stored locally in those app storage.

00:50:30 ◼   ► So it's never transmitted over the internet.

00:50:32 ◼   ► Nobody at Transporter, nobody on their servers,

00:50:34 ◼   ► has access to the data.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Nobody has the keys over there.

00:50:37 ◼   ► Their staff can't read your data.

00:50:39 ◼   ► If they get some kind of weird government request,

00:50:41 ◼   ► they can't do anything because they can't read the data.

00:50:43 ◼   ► It's really great end-to-end encryption.

00:50:46 ◼   ► So it's a level of privacy and control

00:50:48 ◼   ► that a lot of businesses need and a lot of people

00:50:50 ◼   ► feel safe having.

00:50:52 ◼   ► So Transporter is sold in three different configurations.

00:50:55 ◼   ► You can get one empty for 200 bucks-- well, $199.

00:50:58 ◼   ► So we've got 200 bucks.

00:51:00 ◼   ► It can use any 2 and 1/2 inch hard drive.

00:51:03 ◼   ► So you can supply your own drive.

00:51:04 ◼   ► And you can also upgrade these later.

00:51:06 ◼   ► Or you can get a one terabyte model for $299 or a two terabyte

00:51:11 ◼   ► model for $399.

00:51:13 ◼   ► Anyway, to learn more, go to filetransporter.com/atp.

00:51:18 ◼   ► And they have a special deal for all of you wonderful listeners.

00:51:22 ◼   ► If you buy them from their online company store

00:51:24 ◼   ► at filetransporterstore.com, you can use the coupon code ATP,

00:51:28 ◼   ► all lowercase, after you select the model that you want to buy.

00:51:32 ◼   ► And you get 10% off.

00:51:34 ◼   ► And this is pretty good.

00:51:35 ◼   ► 10% off the two terabyte model is $40.

00:51:37 ◼   ► So that's a lot of money off.

00:51:39 ◼   ► So go to filetransporter.com/ATP to learn more

00:51:43 ◼   ► about this cool thing.

00:51:44 ◼   ► Or you want to buy one directly with our coupon code,

00:51:46 ◼   ► go to filetransporterstore.com and use coupon code ATP.

00:51:50 ◼   ► Thanks a lot for the transporter.

00:51:53 ◼   ► I should say that they sent, apparently I'm their favorite because they sent me a demo

00:51:57 ◼   ► unit to play with and I have never really played with network attached storage before

00:52:03 ◼   ► and this thing was set up pretty much immediately and it is basically private Dropbox in the

00:52:09 ◼   ► best possible way. It really is pretty nice. And aren't they coming out with a new version

00:52:13 ◼   ► of their software? Am I making that up?

00:52:14 ◼   ► Yes, there's a 2.0 version. It might be out by the time this podcast airs. I spoke with

00:52:19 ◼   ► them today and they think it might be. They're very, you know, they're storage people so

00:52:22 ◼   ► So they're very conservative with what they release.

00:52:24 ◼   ► They want to make sure it's stable and everything

00:52:26 ◼   ► like that.

00:52:28 ◼   ► So yeah, so there's going to be this big 2.0 version that makes

00:52:30 ◼   ► the software even better and gives you

00:52:32 ◼   ► a lot of the conveniences that the Dropbox integrated software

00:52:35 ◼   ► does with things like Finder integration

00:52:37 ◼   ► and things like that.

00:52:38 ◼   ► Also worth pointing out is that these capacities--

00:52:40 ◼   ► I mean, to get two terabytes on Dropbox,

00:52:43 ◼   ► you're going to end up paying quite a lot.

00:52:45 ◼   ► And because this is all your local storage,

00:52:47 ◼   ► they can give this to you.

00:52:48 ◼   ► And there's no recurring fee for the service.

00:52:51 ◼   ► You buy the enclosure, and then just the price

00:52:55 ◼   ► of the enclosure covers lifetime service from their servers

00:52:59 ◼   ► to do the relaying and coordination of the handshaking

00:53:03 ◼   ► and the DNS stuff to say for your app

00:53:05 ◼   ► to be able to find your transporter and everything.

00:53:08 ◼   ► So there's no monthly fees.

00:53:09 ◼   ► You could buy the enclosure up front and you're set.

00:53:13 ◼   ► So anyway, really great product.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Yeah, it's really nice.

00:53:15 ◼   ► It really is.

00:53:16 ◼   ► All right.

00:53:17 ◼   ► Before we move on, I have one brief thing

00:53:19 ◼   ► to say about the Transporter. I know a lot of nerds who hear about this, and I think

00:53:23 ◼   ► the first time I heard about it on a podcast ages ago, I thought, "It sounds like a step

00:53:28 ◼   ► backwards, because it's like, 'Oh, a Dropbox, everything's in the cloud. I don't have to

00:53:31 ◼   ► worry about storage anymore.' And then these people want to sell me a hard drive in a box?

00:53:35 ◼   ► Didn't we already do that? I'm removed on from having a hard drive in a plastic box

00:53:39 ◼   ► or whatever." But as I've learned more about the product and looked at it, what I do is

00:53:47 ◼   ► I fast-forwarded my mind like 10, 20 years, and what got me to watching the video on their

00:53:53 ◼   ► site where they show like, you know, they're always doing these videos where they show

00:53:56 ◼   ► a nice house with transporters all over it, and everyone's work desk has a transporter

00:53:59 ◼   ► on it or whatever.

00:54:00 ◼   ► So if you think about it, these things are already pretty small.

00:54:02 ◼   ► Like if you look at them, you know, it's a 2.5-inch drive, they're already pretty small,

00:54:04 ◼   ► but shrink these things down in 10, 20 years to be like similar capacities, but now they're

00:54:08 ◼   ► the size of a thumb drive, and like they barely need any energy, or maybe they like get all

00:54:13 ◼   ► their energy wirelessly or something like that, and have way more of them.

00:54:17 ◼   ► And that is actually more of the future, because instead of having a single central service

00:54:21 ◼   ► using Amazon S3 as its back end or whatever, you have a real truly completely distributed

00:54:27 ◼   ► system where everyone's house is just littered with these little things that deal with their

00:54:31 ◼   ► storage and they're all redundant and talking to each other and completely secure, and there

00:54:34 ◼   ► is no central point of failure.

00:54:36 ◼   ► And people aren't in control of their own data because they control, "Oh, I put these

00:54:39 ◼   ► three at home, these four at work, these up in the vacation house," or whatever.

00:54:43 ◼   ► your own data, you get all the benefits of a cloud where you can get at it anywhere and

00:54:47 ◼   ► it's redundant and you don't have to be like, "Oh, my power went out of my house, but I

00:54:51 ◼   ► still have access to my work transporter and it's synced with my home or whatever." And

00:54:54 ◼   ► that actually sounds more like the sci-fi books where it's like a distributed network

00:54:58 ◼   ► of completely independent little tiny storage pods instead of relying on a single company

00:55:03 ◼   ► to do your cloud hosting stuff.

00:55:06 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. And plus, you get one of these at home, one of these at work. That's going to

00:55:10 ◼   ► to be way cheaper than having two terabytes of S3 storage that you have to pay for every

00:55:16 ◼   ► month.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Yeah, and it might actually be faster, too.

00:55:21 ◼   ► Dropbox occasionally gives me data rates that I know are not anywhere close to maxing out

00:55:24 ◼   ► my Fios connection, and I don't know if they're throttling it or if S3 is cranky or if I'm

00:55:30 ◼   ► talking to a server in Seattle and it's far away from me and it's a lot of hops, but

00:55:33 ◼   ► I'm like, even just waiting for the audio files to upload to you, they're not going

00:55:38 ◼   ► at the speed of my upload connection.

00:55:39 ◼   ► Whereas if we both had transporters,

00:55:41 ◼   ► like the only thing--

00:55:42 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:55:42 ◼   ► --would be stopping, it would just be our internet guys.

00:55:44 ◼   ► That's a great example, because that's

00:55:46 ◼   ► one of the problems I have with a lot of online backup services

00:55:49 ◼   ► and things like that, is that I have this awesome fat files

00:55:53 ◼   ► connection, and a lot of servers can't-- or services

00:55:55 ◼   ► can't accept my files fast enough.

00:55:58 ◼   ► That's one of the reasons why previous sponsor Backblaze,

00:56:00 ◼   ► why I like them so much, because Backblaze can actually

00:56:03 ◼   ► accept my uploads really quickly and usually

00:56:07 ◼   ► as fast as I'm willing to send them, whereas a lot of other services can't do that. But

00:56:12 ◼   ► yeah, this is even better. This is just going direct from your pipe at home to wherever

00:56:16 ◼   ► you're requesting it from. Anyway, moving on. Thanks to the transporter.

00:56:21 ◼   ► Well, yep. Thank you very much. And thanks for sending at least one of us a demo unit.

00:56:25 ◼   ► I really do like it. So...

00:56:27 ◼   ► I think pretty much anything called the transporter is cool, because you had the movies, right?

00:56:32 ◼   ► I mean, that was...

00:56:33 ◼   ► Oh, you're going to get so much email.

00:56:34 ◼   ► When you Google for it, the movie isn't the number one hit, but they're the number two,

00:56:36 ◼   ► They're doing pretty well. That's pretty gazie. Oh, that was a very very popular movie series

00:56:40 ◼   ► It's so bad

00:56:43 ◼   ► It was entertaining. It was bad. Why that's me. That's it's the it is like the pinnacle of bad entertaining movies and

00:56:50 ◼   ► Jason Statham is that he says him he he is in so many bad entertaining movies

00:56:55 ◼   ► that but this I think this I think the transporter especially the first one is just like

00:56:59 ◼   ► The the the best example of this category, but didn't use out ease the whole time so we can't yeah

00:57:05 ◼   ► I believe it was a, I believe there were eight with the W12.

00:57:08 ◼   ► Yeah, they were all, they were all the big outies of memory.

00:57:13 ◼   ► So I only saw the first one I think, and it was an A8 if memory.

00:57:16 ◼   ► But it had the W12 engine, I believe. So it was like the souped up A8.

00:57:19 ◼   ► Yeah, whatever. Anyway, uh, I have another couple of things we can talk about,

00:57:24 ◼   ► but I've been captain dictator.

00:57:26 ◼   ► So do you guys have something you would like to share?

00:57:28 ◼   ► John?

00:57:29 ◼   ► Did I complain about the iOS 7 calendar already?

00:57:33 ◼   ► No, you did not.

00:57:36 ◼   ► I had this in my mind as soon as I saw the keynote.

00:57:39 ◼   ► And I was like, well, it's just a little thing, not a big deal.

00:57:41 ◼   ► It's a beta, whatever.

00:57:42 ◼   ► But it's just been gnawing at me.

00:57:43 ◼   ► And then I always thought, well, maybe I already

00:57:45 ◼   ► complained about it.

00:57:45 ◼   ► But anyway, if this is a repeat, I apologize.

00:57:47 ◼   ► I'm old.

00:57:48 ◼   ► I'm senile.

00:57:48 ◼   ► And blame the other two for not reminding me

00:57:50 ◼   ► that they already talked about it.

00:57:51 ◼   ► So in the Google Docs file that I know you all constantly

00:57:54 ◼   ► have open, there's a link to an Apple Insider article

00:57:58 ◼   ► that has the picture I want that I'm pretty sure

00:58:00 ◼   ► was shown publicly so we're not breaking in at the end of the

00:58:02 ◼   ► day.

00:58:02 ◼   ► But anyway, you can just go to appleinsider.com and the link will be in the show notes.

00:58:06 ◼   ► Do you guys have this picture up now?

00:58:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I got it.

00:58:09 ◼   ► It took me a while to figure out how to click a link from Google Docs.

00:58:11 ◼   ► Or Marco can just pull up his iOS 7 device and look at the calendar.

00:58:15 ◼   ► But look at the middle picture of the calendar showing the month view.

00:58:19 ◼   ► I think I complained about it on Twitter.

00:58:20 ◼   ► Maybe that's what I'm remembering.

00:58:21 ◼   ► Did you see that?

00:58:22 ◼   ► The month view?

00:58:25 ◼   ► We were all in the sessions and heard about the philosophy of iOS 7.

00:58:28 ◼   ► And even in the keynote, they talked about it, about clarity and deferring to the content,

00:58:33 ◼   ► not having a lot of Chrome getting in the way, what's important about this, I just want

00:58:36 ◼   ► to see this stuff.

00:58:37 ◼   ► And so a good example of that is the red dot on the number 17 in the screenshot showing

00:58:40 ◼   ► you that today is the 17th.

00:58:42 ◼   ► You look at the screen, you can immediately find what day today is.

00:58:44 ◼   ► It's not like a subtle gray highlight or a little tiny underline.

00:58:47 ◼   ► It's like, boom, red circle, today is the 17th.

00:58:51 ◼   ► Not a lot of vertical lines separating anything, and it's very clean, the numbers are laid

00:58:56 ◼   ► out there.

00:58:57 ◼   ► But to me, and this happens to me in lots of calendar apps, on the Mac, in menu bar

00:59:01 ◼   ► icons, anywhere, the most important thing, especially in stupid outlook for the Mac,

00:59:06 ◼   ► the most important thing for me to know is, "What the hell month am I looking at?"

00:59:10 ◼   ► That's really important to me.

00:59:11 ◼   ► Like, "Oh, don't you know what the current month is?"

00:59:13 ◼   ► If you see the current day, don't you always know what the current...

00:59:14 ◼   ► No, I don't always know what the current month is, especially when it's on month boundaries

00:59:18 ◼   ► or have we crossed over and stuff.

00:59:19 ◼   ► And if you're paging through and you're not on the page with today, what month am I looking

00:59:23 ◼   ► at?

00:59:24 ◼   ► That is super important.

00:59:25 ◼   ► That is like the most important piece of content on this page with the possible exception of

00:59:28 ◼   ► what today's date is.

00:59:30 ◼   ► But even today's date is meaningless if you don't know what month it is.

00:59:32 ◼   ► And look how they treat the month in the month view on the calendar.

00:59:36 ◼   ► Do you see where it is in the screenshot?

00:59:38 ◼   ► I'm looking at the old calendar app on my phone next to this to see for comparison.

00:59:42 ◼   ► I don't know if it's better or worse the same, but all I know is it's bad.

00:59:45 ◼   ► No, the old one, there's like a second title bar below the main bar, and it just says in

00:59:48 ◼   ► big bold letters, "June 2013," right in the middle.

00:59:51 ◼   ► And this one says, "June."

00:59:53 ◼   ► It does not say June, it has the three-letter abbreviation.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And it's like, of all the content on this page, it should be just gigantic and bold

01:00:02 ◼   ► and not abbreviated, right?

01:00:04 ◼   ► Well, also, it's going to change positions as you flip through the months of where it's

01:00:07 ◼   ► at.

01:00:08 ◼   ► Yes, because it's like, I was asking people on Twitter, why in the world, like, this is

01:00:11 ◼   ► so in conflict with their stated philosophy.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Like they taught, I think they even brought this up when they're talking about the philosophy

01:00:16 ◼   ► of like, "Defer the content.

01:00:17 ◼   ► The content is king.

01:00:18 ◼   ► We really just want to see, people just want to see their content."

01:00:21 ◼   ► And the photo's like, "Look, we want to see your photos.

01:00:22 ◼   ► "Here, I want to see what the friggin' month is."

01:00:24 ◼   ► Like, "Oh, well that's not so important.

01:00:26 ◼   ► We're going to abbreviate it because it's more important for us to attach it right above

01:00:30 ◼   ► the number one in the month."

01:00:31 ◼   ► And you're right that it will...

01:00:32 ◼   ► Not only is it small, not only is it not emphasized, like it's even less distinct than the back

01:00:36 ◼   ► button, for crying out loud, it's going to move on every single page because if the first

01:00:39 ◼   ► day is a Friday or Thursday or Wednesday, it's going to move around and continue to

01:00:43 ◼   ► be abbreviated.

01:00:44 ◼   ► And that, I mean, it's...

01:00:46 ◼   ► So what?

01:00:47 ◼   ► They made one choice that is counter to what they're doing, and I thought it wouldn't bother

01:00:50 ◼   ► me.

01:00:51 ◼   ► decision in one application, those guys will fix it. I mean, the Notes app could be argued

01:00:55 ◼   ► as even worse with the weird letterpress style and the inset shadows and stuff or whatever.

01:00:59 ◼   ► But like, what? Big deal. Nobody's perfect. They have a philosophy. They're saying, "This

01:01:03 ◼   ► is what our philosophy is. This is our ideal. Okay, we failed to achieve it." But as time

01:01:08 ◼   ► has passed, it continues to just stick in my craw that I'm just like having them up

01:01:13 ◼   ► there showing this application and saying those words. Like, you'd want to hide this

01:01:18 ◼   ► one. You'd want to be like, "Oh, don't look at that one. That one we know doesn't conform

01:01:21 ◼   ► to our philosophy. Don't show it and say, "Isn't this beautiful? Isn't this nice?"

01:01:25 ◼   ► No, it's not. It says "JUN." It's bothering me more and more.

01:01:33 ◼   ► And so I know everyone is talking about the icons on the home screen, and are they going

01:01:36 ◼   ► to change those? Oh, don't worry. It's just a beta. They'll have plenty of time to refine

01:01:38 ◼   ► them. This is what I'm looking at.

01:01:40 ◼   ► They won't, though.

01:01:41 ◼   ► Well, anyway, this is what I'm looking at as my bellwether, because this doesn't require

01:01:45 ◼   ► you redrawing a whole bunch of icons. This just requires someone to go, "You know what?

01:01:49 ◼   ► month is a pretty darn important thing in month view. It does not deserve to be abbreviated.

01:01:53 ◼   ► It should be bigger. It should be bolder. And that's the kind of—I mean, just center

01:01:57 ◼   ► it. Put it on the same line. Center it. Let them spell it out. Plenty of room for German

01:02:00 ◼   ► month names, which I assume are much longer than ours. Whatever.

01:02:03 ◼   ► But faster. Yeah.

01:02:05 ◼   ► And they all move over to the right when you come up behind them.

01:02:09 ◼   ► I don't know. It bothers me. And I expected after the keynote to see a million people

01:02:13 ◼   ► slamming this because it is the most obvious example of "Do what I say, not as I do."

01:02:19 ◼   ► and yeah.

01:02:21 ◼   ► Well, you know, people have been pointing this out a lot,

01:02:24 ◼   ► and not just-- well, this is actually the first time

01:02:26 ◼   ► I've seen the calendar complaint.

01:02:27 ◼   ► But people, us included, have pointed out lots of just design

01:02:33 ◼   ► flaws in iOS 7 so far.

01:02:36 ◼   ► And I think it's important to consider that similar to how

01:02:40 ◼   ► Apple, the company, they always look out for-- people think,

01:02:44 ◼   ► oh, they do everything, whatever is best for users.

01:02:47 ◼   ► But that's not quite true.

01:02:48 ◼   ► they do what's best for Apple first,

01:02:50 ◼   ► and then secondarily what's best for users.

01:02:52 ◼   ► And if those priorities are ever challenged,

01:02:55 ◼   ► what's best for Apple always wins.

01:02:57 ◼   ► Similar to that, I think we all think of Apple

01:03:01 ◼   ► as this company that has this really great design sense,

01:03:03 ◼   ► and they do mostly, but there's always been

01:03:06 ◼   ► this kind of competing interest at Apple

01:03:10 ◼   ► of what looks cool.

01:03:12 ◼   ► And what looks cool, I think, is more important overall

01:03:17 ◼   ► then what's a great design to them in many instances,

01:03:21 ◼   ► and especially in software.

01:03:22 ◼   ► Hardware, they can often find the right balance.

01:03:25 ◼   ► In software, they often don't.

01:03:27 ◼   ► And I think this is one of those examples a lot about iOS 7.

01:03:31 ◼   ► For example, I think using the super thin font everywhere,

01:03:34 ◼   ► I find the extremely thin font extremely hard to read.

01:03:38 ◼   ► And the fact that there is that adjust legibility setting

01:03:44 ◼   ► to just make the font a little bit thicker,

01:03:46 ◼   ► That alone says they know this too,

01:03:49 ◼   ► and somebody's fighting about it internally.

01:03:53 ◼   ► There's always things like this with Apple software.

01:03:56 ◼   ► Almost everything they've removed

01:03:58 ◼   ► from this quotes, geomorphics stuff from desktop calendar

01:04:03 ◼   ► and stuff like that, almost all these things

01:04:05 ◼   ► are things that were put in there because they look cool.

01:04:08 ◼   ► And high enough up people, oftentimes Steve in the past,

01:04:13 ◼   ► high enough up people thought they looked cool enough

01:04:15 ◼   ► to push them through even though people knew that it wasn't as good of a design or it wasn't

01:04:19 ◼   ► as functional or it wasn't as usable or it wasn't as legible.

01:04:23 ◼   ► In the case of Jun, the cool thing that they are preserving, which many people pointed

01:04:28 ◼   ► out and which I think is totally not a justification for it but is possibly an explanation, is

01:04:33 ◼   ► that when you go from the month to the year view, like they want to do the transition,

01:04:36 ◼   ► it looks like you're just zooming out. And in the year view, the months are abbreviated.

01:04:40 ◼   ► And I think there it kind of makes sense because you can do the abbreviation in a much larger

01:04:44 ◼   ► font. You can put three big letters. You see it to the left there. It would be harder to

01:04:49 ◼   ► read September spelled out on the year view, but you can make SCP really big for September.

01:04:53 ◼   ► So they want the dynamic transition, that jun to go right into the little jun on the

01:04:58 ◼   ► year view in a transition. And it's like, "Oh, see? It's perfect." Just like how the

01:05:02 ◼   ► title slides over with the back button to become the title of the previous page and

01:05:05 ◼   ► all that stuff. It's just perfect, right? And someone was so married to that perfect

01:05:09 ◼   ► transition that they could not bear a crossfade into J-U-N-E, right? You know what I mean?

01:05:13 ◼   ► Like, a crossfade from year view into month view, where the three-letter abbreviation

01:05:17 ◼   ► crossfades into the full month name, is not the end of the world.

01:05:20 ◼   ► But someone was like, "No, we're married to me.

01:05:23 ◼   ► This is the transition.

01:05:25 ◼   ► No crossfades.

01:05:26 ◼   ► It's got to feel like it's a real thing."

01:05:28 ◼   ► And that's the wrong call, because it's better to sacrifice the purity of that transition

01:05:33 ◼   ► to conform to your other supposed purity, which is clarity and deferment to the content

01:05:37 ◼   ► and what is important and just show what's important to the user.

01:05:40 ◼   ► But if something is almost as usable and looks really cool,

01:05:45 ◼   ► they will always opt for that every time.

01:05:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just a bad call, it's just a bad call

01:05:50 ◼   ► in one app, it's not a big deal, but like,

01:05:51 ◼   ► that's my canary in the coal mine.

01:05:53 ◼   ► I'm gonna be watching to see when that abbreviation

01:05:55 ◼   ► gets bigger.

01:05:57 ◼   ► - I'll be watching to see when the default font is thicker.

01:06:01 ◼   ► - I agree.

01:06:02 ◼   ► But to go back to the calendar,

01:06:03 ◼   ► I do think it was very cool, and John,

01:06:05 ◼   ► you touched on this briefly, the way the transitions worked,

01:06:08 ◼   ► and I don't have an iOS 7 device here,

01:06:11 ◼   ► but my memory tells me that when you went

01:06:13 ◼   ► from the day view to the month view,

01:06:15 ◼   ► you kind of zoomed out and back towards your face.

01:06:18 ◼   ► That's a terrible description,

01:06:19 ◼   ► but you kept zooming outwards,

01:06:21 ◼   ► and like you said, Jon, you went from the month view

01:06:23 ◼   ► and then you zoomed out to the year view,

01:06:25 ◼   ► and then the way the transition for the home screen is,

01:06:27 ◼   ► when you hit the home screen from the year view,

01:06:29 ◼   ► or when you hit the home button from the year view,

01:06:30 ◼   ► you would kind of zoom out again into Springboard,

01:06:32 ◼   ► and I just thought that was really well done

01:06:34 ◼   ► and really cool, but before you said Crossfade,

01:06:37 ◼   ► I was thinking to myself, "You know, that's weird. Why didn't they do a crossfade from

01:06:40 ◼   ► month to year?"

01:06:41 ◼   ► Because it's not… But, you know, real Zooms don't crossfade, right? The thing about

01:06:47 ◼   ► all those things is I think they are good and they are really neat to see, but all the

01:06:51 ◼   ► previous versions of iOS have pretty much demonstrated that the conceptual model of

01:06:57 ◼   ► home screen application, like that one level of you're either in an app or you're in

01:07:00 ◼   ► a home screen, people get that, even with the transitions that are not as beautiful

01:07:05 ◼   ► perfect as they are on iOS 7.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Because like you said, if you tap on it in iOS 7, the calendar in particular, because

01:07:10 ◼   ► it's icon looks like you had simply zoomed in on the day view in a month calendar, and

01:07:16 ◼   ► it's just all like, "Oh, I'm just pushing back, pushing back, zooming in, zooming in,"

01:07:19 ◼   ► and just one smooth, continuous experience.

01:07:22 ◼   ► That's great and all, but it's fixing something that wasn't really a problem, because everybody

01:07:28 ◼   ► very quickly rocks screen with a bunch of icons, you're in an app, you hit that button,

01:07:32 ◼   ► you go back to the screen with a bunch of icons.

01:07:34 ◼   ► Everybody gets that.

01:07:35 ◼   ► It's not super duper, you know, even ignoring folders, which I think people still also kind of get, but just that model of like you're either

01:07:41 ◼   ► on springboard or you're in an app and if you're in an app and you want to get to springboard you hit the button, you don't

01:07:46 ◼   ► need the transition like, you know, like the genie effect to say where the hell did my window go?

01:07:50 ◼   ► I think that is still necessary because people click a button on their window and the window just has appeared

01:07:55 ◼   ► they will not notice that a little square appeared in the lower right, but I think everybody even if there was zero transition

01:08:00 ◼   ► Grok's the model eventually and certainly now of just like oh, I get it now. I'm in an app

01:08:06 ◼   ► I hit that button. I'm back on the screen with the icons. I get how those two things are arranged and so this

01:08:10 ◼   ► Marriage to this particular transition is like it's too much

01:08:13 ◼   ► It's killing an ant with sledgehammer like we get it

01:08:17 ◼   ► We understand how you get to and from the home screen and so like I don't say you shouldn't do it. It's good

01:08:21 ◼   ► It's nice and everything, but do not sacrifice aspects of the application for it. You know

01:08:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's gonna be a lot like like you know what like when I when I made the magazine 1.0

01:08:30 ◼   ► and my goal was to have no settings screen.

01:08:32 ◼   ► And then that actually turned out to cause

01:08:34 ◼   ► a few other bad design decisions,

01:08:36 ◼   ► because I was trying to reach that one goal,

01:08:39 ◼   ► and reality interfered,

01:08:42 ◼   ► and I had to compromise in other ways.

01:08:45 ◼   ► And that turned out to be the wrong decision.

01:08:48 ◼   ► I think there's a lot of cases like that in iOS 7

01:08:50 ◼   ► where they're trying to preserve something

01:08:54 ◼   ► about the appearance or the structure or their principles,

01:08:58 ◼   ► and they're trying to say, "Well, we need to do,

01:08:59 ◼   ► We need to make this choice because of this principle, that this was one of our goals.

01:09:03 ◼   ► So therefore, because this animation is going to be this certain way, then it'll look

01:09:08 ◼   ► best to have Jun there instead of Jun.

01:09:10 ◼   ► And so this is what we're stuck with.

01:09:13 ◼   ► This is the right thing to do.

01:09:15 ◼   ► And eventually they're going to start refining that and cutting back on some of these things,

01:09:19 ◼   ► I think, or finding new ways to satisfy both.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Like they've got principles that they laid out, and some of the principles sometimes

01:09:27 ◼   ► come in conflict.

01:09:28 ◼   ► question of which one wins. And picking the right winner is just as important as picking

01:09:32 ◼   ► the correct principles. Because we all agree with the principles, "Oh, the transition

01:09:35 ◼   ► should be smooth and obvious, and also we agree with, oh, the content should be emphasized

01:09:38 ◼   ► and not the Chrome." Like, if you're on board with the iOS 7 idea, we're on board

01:09:41 ◼   ► with both of those. And it's like, okay, when they come in conflict, we maybe don't

01:09:46 ◼   ► agree with picking the transition one over the content being king. Or deciding that their

01:09:52 ◼   ► entire treatment of text also clashes with someone being able to look at this thing at

01:09:58 ◼   ► a glance and all they see is the content. Like, what they want to know is there, and

01:10:01 ◼   ► they're not distracted by the interface. And if people are having trouble reading these

01:10:04 ◼   ► spindly little fonts, then some other aspect of the philosophy has stomped on the one we

01:10:09 ◼   ► think should be more important.

01:10:11 ◼   ► Right, exactly.

01:10:12 ◼   ► Are we really that surprised either that Apple, when creating this new whizbang thing, has

01:10:18 ◼   ► favored the new whizbang thing over what is arguably right? In other words, I don't think

01:10:22 ◼   ► surprising that they're choosing Jun over doing something that doesn't really fit the

01:10:30 ◼   ► whizbang as well, but is really the right answer, and that's putting Jun in.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

01:10:35 ◼   ► But they picked these tenets.

01:10:37 ◼   ► They really hammered on deferring to the user and the content and emphasizing the content

01:10:42 ◼   ► over the Chrome.

01:10:43 ◼   ► That's them.

01:10:44 ◼   ► No one's putting that on them.

01:10:45 ◼   ► They're not burdened with that.

01:10:46 ◼   ► They've chosen that as a tent pole of iOS 7.

01:10:49 ◼   ► And it's up to them to figure out, like, if they give us all these philosophies and tenets

01:10:56 ◼   ► of iOS 7, they have to figure out how to reconcile these in a pleasing way.

01:11:01 ◼   ► And it seems to me that they're picking the wrong ones.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Like, the one that most people could be on board with, I think the one that most people

01:11:07 ◼   ► are on board with is, "Okay, good.

01:11:09 ◼   ► No more weird leather and felt and stuff.

01:11:11 ◼   ► That's not important.

01:11:12 ◼   ► It's distracting.

01:11:13 ◼   ► We just want to see the information.

01:11:15 ◼   ► Show me my calendar.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Show me what the month is.

01:11:18 ◼   ► Show me what today's date is.

01:11:19 ◼   ► show me if I've got it in the com— like, I just want the information, don't distract

01:11:22 ◼   ► me with fancy looking buttons and stuff.

01:11:24 ◼   ► I think that's the one that we all agree is a good idea in iOS 7.

01:11:28 ◼   ► And the other ones they latched onto about their particular treatment of typography and

01:11:31 ◼   ► how things are transitioned were like, "Those are good and everything, but we really like

01:11:36 ◼   ► the one where you emphasize the content and not the Chrome."

01:11:39 ◼   ► And their prioritization of those, the tenets that they chose, seemed to be different than

01:11:46 ◼   ► everyone else's at this point.

01:11:47 ◼   ► Well, and this is, I mean, all design for all apps, every, design is a whole bunch of

01:11:53 ◼   ► series of choices, and most of them are not easy choices. And, you know, because with

01:11:59 ◼   ► those, with those principles they have, almost none of them are, you can just say, "All

01:12:05 ◼   ► right, well, you know, how should this thing behave? Well, we're going to satisfy all

01:12:07 ◼   ► three of those things perfectly and make everything great by just doing this one option here."

01:12:11 ◼   ► Like, every time you're designing something, developing something, you're always having

01:12:15 ◼   ► to compromise on those things.

01:12:17 ◼   ► And good design is about figuring out the right compromises.

01:12:21 ◼   ► 'Cause there's always gonna be lots of conflicting rules

01:12:24 ◼   ► and principles and factors and everything like that.

01:12:27 ◼   ► And what makes a good designer a good designer

01:12:30 ◼   ► is having great judgment there,

01:12:34 ◼   ► and then also being able to look back

01:12:35 ◼   ► when they've been wrong and say, you know what,

01:12:38 ◼   ► that was the wrong choice, this is overall better

01:12:40 ◼   ► to do it this other way.

01:12:44 ◼   ► Is that all we got?

01:12:45 ◼   ► I guess.

01:12:46 ◼   ► We good?

01:12:47 ◼   ► I think we're good.

01:12:49 ◼   ► Alright, well thanks a lot to our two show sponsors, Audible.

01:12:53 ◼   ► Go to audiblepodcast.com/atp and File Transporter or just simply Transporter.

01:12:59 ◼   ► Go to filetransporter.com/atp and thanks a lot guys.

01:13:03 ◼   ► Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:13:10 ◼   ► Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:13:17 ◼   ► John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:13:22 ◼   ► Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:13:28 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:13:31 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:13:38 ◼   ► @CASEYLISS

01:13:41 ◼   ► So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:13:46 ◼   ► Auntie Marco Arment

01:13:48 ◼   ► S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-Racusa

01:13:53 ◼   ► It's accidental

01:13:56 ◼   ► They didn't mean to

01:13:59 ◼   ► I don't have any objections to it. If we have the blessing of the person in the chat

01:14:10 ◼   ► room who will never get credit on the show, will just have to tell his grandchildren,

01:14:14 ◼   ► "They used my title once." Didn't hear that on the show, grandpa.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Oh, trust me. I do kind of like "I Feel Like John Syracuse

01:14:24 ◼   ► Now," but I don't think that really makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

01:14:28 ◼   ► know how I feel. You don't know what it feels like to be me.

01:14:33 ◼   ► No one really does. Oh my god, I'm losing it. That's not even that late. We've had

01:14:40 ◼   ► some fun reviews lately. Really? I don't even read them. I always

01:14:44 ◼   ► forget that that's a thing that I can go check.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Not that many reviews. Maybe we should have every three months begging for people to review

01:14:51 ◼   ► us because I remember that they existed recently, too. I usually check them pretty obsessively,

01:14:57 ◼   ► I had a long spell where I didn't.

01:14:58 ◼   ► I mean, WWDC had an interruption.

01:14:59 ◼   ► I went back, and there weren't that many new ones.

01:15:01 ◼   ► So maybe we have to go back to that section of the show where we beg everybody to leave

01:15:04 ◼   ► iTunes reviews.

01:15:05 ◼   ► Well, the problem is that they're not in the theme song, that there's no call-out in the

01:15:09 ◼   ► theme song.

01:15:10 ◼   ► We're getting tons of Twitter followers.

01:15:11 ◼   ► Our site's doing great.

01:15:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

01:15:13 ◼   ► You don't need to call it the theme song.

01:15:15 ◼   ► But every once in a while, you mention the review, and people go, "We have a lot of reviews.

01:15:20 ◼   ► All our reviews are good."

01:15:21 ◼   ► And most of them—the good thing about having a show with three people on it is that in

01:15:25 ◼   ► In most reviews, your chances of them saying something nice about you are good.

01:15:29 ◼   ► The reviews always say something good about two out of three people.

01:15:32 ◼   ► That's true.

01:15:33 ◼   ► And then someone gets thrown under the bus.

01:15:36 ◼   ► That is true, actually.

01:15:37 ◼   ► Usually, it gives good odds.

01:15:40 ◼   ► That's mostly true.

01:15:41 ◼   ► However, I cannot remember seeing a bad comment about John Ever.

01:15:46 ◼   ► And if there's a bad comment, I'd say it's two-thirds about how much of a [censored] Marco

01:15:50 ◼   ► is and one-third about how ignorant and stupid I am.

01:15:53 ◼   ► My bad comments are pretty great.

01:15:55 ◼   ► My grand

01:16:03 ◼   ► I know, but that's the bad thing that they say, is that my performance in this show is

01:16:08 ◼   ► lesser and it doesn't satisfy their need for whatever it is they need.

01:16:13 ◼   ► I'm getting off with the least bad reviews.

01:16:17 ◼   ► But what I'm saying is, most of them, two out of three people, they say something nice

01:16:21 ◼   ► about.

01:16:22 ◼   ► Yeah, but some of the—God, I'm trying to find one or two of them that were interesting.

01:16:26 ◼   ► Oh, here you go.

01:16:28 ◼   ► Marco is so full of himself, but John makes up for them all.

01:16:31 ◼   ► Seriously, a good listen.

01:16:32 ◼   ► That's the entire review.

01:16:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like that's pretty standard, I would say.

01:16:36 ◼   ► I feel like nobody really insults you, Casey.

01:16:39 ◼   ► The only thing people say about you is, "You want to read some bad Casey ones?

01:16:44 ◼   ► Go find some.

01:16:45 ◼   ► They're in there."

01:16:46 ◼   ► I would love to read some bad Casey ones.

01:16:47 ◼   ► I just thought the only bad Casey ones were like, "Who's this guy?"

01:16:49 ◼   ► Who the hell is Casey?

01:16:51 ◼   ► No.

01:16:52 ◼   ► Now they know who he is and they don't like him.

01:16:54 ◼   ► Oh no.

01:16:55 ◼   ► So in the middle of a very long review, I think Armit and Sirkusa feel that they need

01:16:58 ◼   ► a moderator of sorts to keep the show moving.

01:17:00 ◼   ► I agree, but they picked the wrong guy.

01:17:02 ◼   ► They picked a friend rather than someone with the requisite skill set.

01:17:05 ◼   ► Casey is in over his head.

01:17:06 ◼   ► I would have been too, but I would have declined the offer.

01:17:10 ◼   ► First of all, that's why you're wrong.

01:17:12 ◼   ► None of us like Casey.

01:17:13 ◼   ► First of all, suppose his entire premise is true.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Do you think anybody could like reign us in when John and I are both talking forever about

01:17:23 ◼   ► something like that?

01:17:24 ◼   ► It's an impossible job.

01:17:26 ◼   ► I don't know how to approach this diplomatically and delicately.

01:17:29 ◼   ► So I'm just gonna say you too impossible sometimes

01:17:31 ◼   ► Actually this was legitimately good feedback and actually to be fair made me try to work on on something that I do think is an

01:17:40 ◼   ► Issue Casey's diplomatic to the point of blandness always tempering his point of view as if to not upset anyone ever

01:17:45 ◼   ► Which continues I miss hypercritical but having John Syracuse on any podcast is better than none and I actually think he is

01:17:52 ◼   ► That that was a reasonable point. I just like it's like the Dark Crystal though

01:17:56 ◼   ► You guys that before you guys time you know dark crystal no

01:17:59 ◼   ► Not Marco nothing what chat room this is what I have to work with here

01:18:05 ◼   ► God

01:18:09 ◼   ► I

01:18:10 ◼   ► questioned whether I should preface that with like oh have you guys heard of that because I would be like

01:18:13 ◼   ► Insulting it's like have you guys heard of Star Trek like you'd be like oh come on like of course we're gonna start

01:18:17 ◼   ► I don't be stupid, but nothing all right nevermind

01:18:19 ◼   ► The chat room is catching up in there. They all hate us now so although

01:18:24 ◼   ► I will say, to go back a step, Ben Rice said, "I still think Casey List is Marco's imaginary

01:18:28 ◼   ► friend."

01:18:29 ◼   ► Well, I'll try my dark or something anyway.

01:18:35 ◼   ► What we have here with the three of us together is all the ingredients that are needed, they're

01:18:39 ◼   ► just not evenly distributed.

01:18:41 ◼   ► Some of Marco's self-confidence needs to go into Casey, and some of Casey's ability to

01:18:45 ◼   ► shut up needs to go into me and Marco.

01:18:47 ◼   ► That's about right, I'd say.

01:18:49 ◼   ► See what I'm saying?

01:18:50 ◼   ► That's fantastic.

01:18:51 ◼   ► If we find them, then we would have the ultimate podcast host who would then be very lonely.

01:18:56 ◼   ► Oh, God, that's so true.

01:19:00 ◼   ► And Dented Meat is right.

01:19:01 ◼   ► We all thought he was the imaginary friend around here, and then we met him.

01:19:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I met him for like ten seconds, but we did meet him.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Oh, by the way, Casey's real and he's spectacular.

01:19:12 ◼   ► You get that reference.

01:19:13 ◼   ► Yes, he's got that reference.

01:19:14 ◼   ► Oh, my God, I'm losing my crap over here.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Can that please be the show intro?

01:19:19 ◼   ► Oh, God.

01:19:20 ◼   ► We have so many great show interns.

01:19:23 ◼   ► I'll have to save them up.

01:19:25 ◼   ► We might have to do an "after the evening" or whatever, or "subsequent to the evening"

01:19:30 ◼   ► or whatever we're calling it.

01:19:32 ◼   ► This is good.

01:19:33 ◼   ► It's called "Before Midnight."

01:19:34 ◼   ► Before Midnight, yeah, exactly.

01:19:36 ◼   ► Oh, goodness.

01:19:37 ◼   ► I should find some of these bad reviews and pull up Gruber and read them all.

01:19:41 ◼   ► No, I mean, people aren't really mean.

01:19:45 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:19:46 ◼   ► No, for the most part.

01:19:47 ◼   ► There were a couple that actually stung, but genuinely, there were a couple that actually

01:19:50 ◼   ► They only think if there's a kernel of truth.

01:19:52 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:19:53 ◼   ► Well, yes and no.

01:19:54 ◼   ► But people aren't being like, "Go read some reviews to other podcasts, and you'll

01:20:00 ◼   ► see much more."

01:20:01 ◼   ► That's the problem.

01:20:02 ◼   ► Nobody hates us enough to write a really funny bad review.

01:20:06 ◼   ► They only hate us enough to write kind of mean reviews.

01:20:09 ◼   ► Well, because all listeners are all discerning and intelligent and attractive people.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Of course.

01:20:14 ◼   ► Even the ones who hate us are articulate enough to leave a reasonable review.

01:20:19 ◼   ► I think the only one that stung-- I shouldn't say it stung.

01:20:23 ◼   ► The one that I read about me hedging too much,

01:20:27 ◼   ► that was absolutely valid.

01:20:28 ◼   ► And it kind of stung, but more was like, dude,

01:20:31 ◼   ► I really do need to work on that.

01:20:33 ◼   ► The one about me being over my head kind of hurt.

01:20:36 ◼   ► It's OK, though.

01:20:37 ◼   ► I'll be all right.

01:20:38 ◼   ► But the premise there just is not valid.

01:20:40 ◼   ► Doesn't make any sense.

01:20:41 ◼   ► Like, I don't think people understand

01:20:43 ◼   ► that you're a programmer for a living.

01:20:44 ◼   ► They think you're just some guy off the street.

01:20:47 ◼   ► Well, I don't know.

01:20:48 ◼   ► most of the time. Still, come on. You know what I mean.

01:20:51 ◼   ► He writes Perl! How are you shitting your ass on me? He writes Perl. Come on.

01:20:55 ◼   ► But people think I'm an iOS or OS X developer, and I'm not.

01:20:58 ◼   ► No, actually, all kidding aside, forgive me for starting mutual admiration society,

01:21:03 ◼   ► but you know a d*** about Objective-C and Coco and Coco Touch for someone who never does any of this.

01:21:08 ◼   ► I know. I don't know if they know that or want to do it.

01:21:12 ◼   ► He says "prejudice me."

01:21:14 ◼   ► That's also a thing that non-programmers don't understand, is that at a certain point, when

01:21:18 ◼   ► you have a certain level of experience in programming, the mysticism of different APIs

01:21:23 ◼   ► and languages falls away, and you just kind of realize that it's all more or less the

01:21:27 ◼   ► same stuff.

01:21:29 ◼   ► That's the whole thing.

01:21:30 ◼   ► Employers are like this, too.

01:21:32 ◼   ► Once you've been a professional programmer for, I don't know, five years, certainly for

01:21:35 ◼   ► ten, assuming you've been keeping your skills up or whatever, you can learn any language,

01:21:44 ◼   ► because it's like, "Okay, well, what's the equivalent of whatever in this language?"

01:21:49 ◼   ► Conceptually you understand everything you need to know, and it's just a matter of syntax.

01:21:51 ◼   ► The same thing with APIs.

01:21:52 ◼   ► Once you've used an API that has all these concepts in terms of callbacks and notifications

01:21:57 ◼   ► and event loops and background processes, conceptually, once you understand the concepts,

01:22:05 ◼   ► it's not like, "Oh, but you're an iOS programmer.

01:22:08 ◼   ► You'll never understand OS X," or "You'll never understand .NET."

01:22:11 ◼   ► It's all the same stuff.

01:22:12 ◼   ► there's very rarely some new revolutionary idea that you can't even grok, and it's just

01:22:16 ◼   ► a matter of the details. Oh yeah, and going back to our design discussion,

01:22:19 ◼   ► I think it's a similar thing with like, you know, most programming languages don't come

01:22:23 ◼   ► out and do like radically totally unheard of ideas. It just, they're all trade-offs.

01:22:28 ◼   ► And it's like, all right, well, wickshadow trade-off, you know, like what are your priorities

01:22:31 ◼   ► for what you're doing, and therefore wickshadow trade-off is the best for you to use for this,

01:22:36 ◼   ► you know? Like there's, like, that's why it's so hard to say that one language is, quote,

01:22:40 ◼   ► better than another because usually they just have made different trade-offs.

01:22:45 ◼   ► And I think there is a thing where if someone just uses one language forever and that language

01:22:49 ◼   ► doesn't have anonymous functions or closures or currying or pick your whatever feature,

01:22:54 ◼   ► then you won't have seen that concept. And if some of the language is heavily based on

01:22:58 ◼   ► it, you will not grok it and you will have to first grok that concept. But that's why

01:23:01 ◼   ► I was saying if you've been in the industry for a long time and used lots of different

01:23:04 ◼   ► languages, eventually you didn't spend your entire time and see eventually you run across

01:23:08 ◼   ► a language that has these features. Or even if you're just in a language that never had

01:23:11 ◼   ► lexical scope and you don't understand how that works or why it might be useful.

01:23:16 ◼   ► But I feel like, especially in today's development, like the web where you encounter seven languages

01:23:20 ◼   ► running one application, you get all the concepts or whatever. But I think for non-programmers

01:23:26 ◼   ► listening, they will assign you an expertise in a particular realm and decide that you

01:23:31 ◼   ► can't possibly have any intelligent comment on the other realm. So because Casey's a .NET

01:23:34 ◼   ► net programmer, like what could he possibly have intelligent to say about OS X? Well,

01:23:39 ◼   ► it's not as evolved, that's totally foreign, I can't possibly understand what's going

01:23:44 ◼   ► on there. Like, GUI API is a GUI API, right? You know, talking to a database from programming

01:23:49 ◼   ► languages, talking to a database, you know, have you used an ORM before? Well, we have

01:23:52 ◼   ► ORMs here too, you know, it's just all the same stuff.

01:23:55 ◼   ► As long as we can all agree that PHP does suck.

01:23:58 ◼   ► Yes, well, we do. Everyone agrees. No one disagrees.

01:24:01 ◼   ► There is no better or worse language, except PHP, which is worse.

01:24:07 ◼   ► Are you feeling okay?

01:24:08 ◼   ► Look, I still use it, because again, it's the trade-offs, right?

01:24:11 ◼   ► There's joke languages that are worse, right?

01:24:14 ◼   ► There's like brain f***.

01:24:17 ◼   ► That's worse.

01:24:18 ◼   ► Right.

01:24:19 ◼   ► You know, there is levels to go down farther, but yeah, at a certain point.

01:24:21 ◼   ► I mean, arguably, PHP is kind of a joke language.

01:24:24 ◼   ► Actually, here's an interesting question, which maybe we should say for a show.

01:24:27 ◼   ► Which is a worse language, PHP or JavaScript?

01:24:30 ◼   ► Oh, PHP, no contest, come on.

01:24:33 ◼   ► Really?

01:24:34 ◼   ► I think that might require some thought.

01:24:35 ◼   ► No, because JavaScript just has so much fewer moving parts.

01:24:39 ◼   ► So even if you think all those parts in JavaScript are worse than the parts in PHP, PHP has so

01:24:43 ◼   ► many freaking parts.

01:24:44 ◼   ► Well, JavaScript has browsers, you know?

01:24:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:24:47 ◼   ► I think—

01:24:48 ◼   ► No, no, the language.

01:24:49 ◼   ► We're just talking about the language.

01:24:50 ◼   ► The language is just—

01:24:51 ◼   ► No, no, we're talking about—if you're talking about moving parts, we're talking

01:24:52 ◼   ► about it in practice here.

01:24:53 ◼   ► No, I mean like the language, like think of the size of the API, you know?

01:24:57 ◼   ► PHP is just crazy.

01:24:59 ◼   ► Yeah, but think about how much in JavaScript is just not accessible from the API. I don't

01:25:05 ◼   ► know.

01:25:06 ◼   ► That's what JavaScript is. JavaScript is a simple language that's crappy, but at least

01:25:09 ◼   ► it's small.

01:25:10 ◼   ► I mean, PHP might be worse than JavaScript, but I would really have to make a pros and

01:25:16 ◼   ► cons list or something. Really think about it and really weigh it. I think their badness

01:25:22 ◼   ► is closer than you might assume.

01:25:25 ◼   ► Well, you know, it's the same thing with the PHP discussion we had way back when.

01:25:28 ◼   ► It's like, I'm talking about just the language and the abstract, like in terms of here are

01:25:32 ◼   ► the keywords, here's the syntax, here's the concepts it embodies, and not any of the practical

01:25:35 ◼   ► concerns.

01:25:36 ◼   ► Once you throw the practical concerns into it, other things come in, because like JavaScript

01:25:40 ◼   ► as a language is better than PHP as a language, but you may say developing a real application

01:25:45 ◼   ► in JavaScript is worse because of variances in browsers, whereas PHP is always the same,

01:25:48 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:25:49 ◼   ► You know, like then you can make different arguments.

01:25:50 ◼   ► But when I'm talking about the language, I'm always talking about the language in the abstract.

01:25:53 ◼   ► You're a language designer. You want to make a thing that executes. There are no real-world concerns at all

01:25:58 ◼   ► You're just designing a language the same way you design a written language

01:26:01 ◼   ► Here's the syntax here are the nouns and verbs and here's how it's structured and you know the whole nine yards

01:26:06 ◼   ► I want to piddle with some of the server-side

01:26:09 ◼   ► piddle

01:26:11 ◼   ► screw around with

01:26:13 ◼   ► You're so hyper this is a whole nother show

01:26:17 ◼   ► It really is well, you know what?

01:26:19 ◼   ► We should just bank this for the next time one of us isn't around

01:26:21 ◼   ► But anyway, I want to screw around with Node.js

01:26:24 ◼   ► or one of the new hotness web frameworks.

01:26:28 ◼   ► - Node.js is so two years ago, come on.

01:26:30 ◼   ► - Whatever.

01:26:31 ◼   ► I live in the .NET world.

01:26:32 ◼   ► - Isn't the Windows Azure thing,

01:26:34 ◼   ► isn't that Node on the server?

01:26:35 ◼   ► I think it is, right? - I believe that's right.

01:26:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

01:26:39 ◼   ► - It's certainly interesting.

01:26:41 ◼   ► Whatever I see about Node.js,

01:26:43 ◼   ► it looks like it's probably really interesting right now,

01:26:46 ◼   ► but when you're programming something

01:26:49 ◼   ► and you don't want to spend a ton of time

01:26:50 ◼   ► like on the nuts and bolts of it,

01:26:53 ◼   ► you don't really want interesting.

01:26:54 ◼   ► You want something that was interesting five years ago.

01:26:57 ◼   ► And so I think Node.js, whatever project

01:27:01 ◼   ► I start five years from now, I'll probably use it then.

01:27:03 ◼   ► Well, here's the ideal project for something like Node

01:27:05 ◼   ► if you want to experiment.

01:27:05 ◼   ► It would be something like Matt and Reece's TweetMarker type

01:27:08 ◼   ► service, where conceptually, again, there's

01:27:11 ◼   ► not a lot of moving parts.

01:27:12 ◼   ► Like you're going to be storing an offset or a position

01:27:14 ◼   ► for people in some sort of server back end.

01:27:16 ◼   ► And what your server software has to do

01:27:18 ◼   ► is basically accept a request, maybe

01:27:20 ◼   ► with some minor authentication, and then

01:27:22 ◼   ► get and store a number for somebody.

01:27:24 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:27:24 ◼   ► Right.

01:27:24 ◼   ► It's not going to--

01:27:25 ◼   ► That's your problem.

01:27:26 ◼   ► You're not going to hit a problem where, oh, crap,

01:27:28 ◼   ► the icons library sucks for this.

01:27:29 ◼   ► Right.

01:27:30 ◼   ► So then you can write that in Node

01:27:32 ◼   ► and be like, my first Node application.

01:27:34 ◼   ► It's one step above writing an echo server.

01:27:36 ◼   ► But you get all the advantages that are supposedly in Node.

01:27:38 ◼   ► You can say, OK, does this scale really awesome?

01:27:40 ◼   ► It can.

01:27:40 ◼   ► Is this super easy to deploy, and I can run it everywhere?

01:27:43 ◼   ► And you can really torture test it and say, all right,

01:27:46 ◼   ► I could have written this in anything,

01:27:48 ◼   ► because the amount of code, it's like three pages of code for the server part of it, not

01:27:51 ◼   ► the storage part, not the all the other stuff, just for the web app part.

01:27:55 ◼   ► And that's a perfect opportunity to try out something new, because you're like, "If it

01:27:58 ◼   ► doesn't work, I'll just rewrite it and pick your favorite language and it won't be a big

01:28:01 ◼   ► deal.

01:28:02 ◼   ► But if it does work, maybe I'll get all these advantages that everyone says about Node."

01:28:06 ◼   ► You know what I think we should do is we should write websites in just straight C, because

01:28:12 ◼   ► that sounds bright.

01:28:13 ◼   ► I did that.

01:28:14 ◼   ► Been there, done that, yep.

01:28:15 ◼   ► I know.

01:28:16 ◼   ► I'm trying to troll you.

01:28:17 ◼   ► Nothing better than string manipulation in C.

01:28:20 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:28:21 ◼   ► Really secure too.

01:28:22 ◼   ► No buffer overflows in my query parsing code, no sir.

01:28:25 ◼   ► (laughs)