ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► The show should not be that long.

00:00:03 ◼   ► People keep asking us about the show, the artwork for the show.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Oh, I moved that down.

00:00:08 ◼   ► But okay, we can talk about it now.

00:00:09 ◼   ► That's follow-up, I think.

00:00:10 ◼   ► So I want Marco to address that, because it is a common, a frequently asked question.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Yes, so.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Right now the show has two pieces of artwork.

00:00:18 ◼   ► It has the old Mac Pro with the new badge on it as the official one in the feed.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Ever since WVDC, I've been embedding in the embedded artwork in each file the black Mac

00:00:27 ◼   ► Pro with the new badge over it as kind of a joke from WWDC. Since roughly then we've

00:00:34 ◼   ► been trying to get better artwork made and the biggest problem, we've talked to a few

00:00:39 ◼   ► designers over the last six months or so, the biggest problem is that we have had no

00:00:44 ◼   ► ideas. And so we ask a designer like, "Hey, we'd love to have you do something for us."

00:00:50 ◼   ► And of course all good designers are always busy. And so they ask us, "Okay, well what

00:00:54 ◼   ► do you want?" And we're like, "Uhh." We have no ideas except that it should contain

00:01:00 ◼   ► the text "Accidental Tech Podcast" because all other podcasts contain their name in their

00:01:05 ◼   ► artwork and therefore many podcast clients are designed to not even show the title. This

00:01:11 ◼   ► is, I believe, true in many sections of the iTunes podcast store where you can just see

00:01:15 ◼   ► the square artwork and you don't even see the title. So it makes it hard to find the

00:01:20 ◼   ► show if the title's not in the artwork. Besides that, we have had nothing else to work on

00:01:24 ◼   ► However, you guys all know us, and you can probably take a guess that even though we

00:01:29 ◼   ► have no ideas, we are going to be critical of anything presented to us, which therefore

00:01:33 ◼   ► means that we are the worst possible clients to have for a designer.

00:01:37 ◼   ► So --

00:01:38 ◼   ► Wait a second.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Are you telling people that we need the full name inside the thing?

00:01:41 ◼   ► Because I would be happy with the initials.

00:01:43 ◼   ► That's what I --

00:01:44 ◼   ► All right.

00:01:45 ◼   ► Well, that's --

00:01:46 ◼   ► We're making progress here.

00:01:49 ◼   ► I -- you know, I would -- I think I would argue against that.

00:01:53 ◼   ► I mean, if you just have the initials, that's enough for a fan of the show who has it in

00:01:58 ◼   ► their feeds to be able to recognize rather than just a diagonal banner saying "new."

00:02:02 ◼   ► Well, the fan, yes. But I would say people who already subscribe to it and already recognize

00:02:10 ◼   ► us as a thing, the artwork being recognizable is less of a problem for them. And I would

00:02:15 ◼   ► say ours now probably is very recognizable still if you're browsing a list. The bigger

00:02:19 ◼   ► problem is attracting new people to the show and most people browsing these like

00:02:24 ◼   ► the iTunes store if they see this square that says ATP they're gonna think this

00:02:27 ◼   ► is like the most interesting adenosine triphosphate podcast in the world and

00:02:31 ◼   ► it's gonna you know that this we're not gonna attract new people that way could

00:02:35 ◼   ► also be a tennis podcast that's true I can't believe you knew a deniseen

00:02:39 ◼   ► triphosphate as the husband of a biology teacher I am very impressed I'm not I'm

00:02:44 ◼   ► not gonna pretend like I know whether it's pronounced that way or not but I'm

00:02:46 ◼   ► pretty sure those are the words. No, you're right. You're right.

00:02:48 ◼   ► All right. Anyway, the reason this question comes up is because since we recorded the

00:02:53 ◼   ► last episode, the new Mac Pros have been released, I'm sure we'll talk about that later in the

00:02:57 ◼   ► show, and people keep asking on Twitter, "Are you going to change the artwork for the podcast

00:03:04 ◼   ► to be the new Mac Pro instead of the old one with a big new banner on it?"

00:03:08 ◼   ► So I mean, I made that artwork six months ago. I could change it. I might as well. I

00:03:14 ◼   ► We're trying to get new artwork made still, so I thought it would be a little weird to

00:03:18 ◼   ► change the artwork now and then change it again in like a month or something.

00:03:22 ◼   ► I agree.

00:03:23 ◼   ► I think you should keep the existing old-style cheese grater with the new thing on it until

00:03:28 ◼   ► we get official new artwork.

00:03:30 ◼   ► And we'll just all have to endure the constant questions about why we haven't changed the

00:03:33 ◼   ► artwork.

00:03:34 ◼   ► But the distinction you were just making there is important that the individual embedded

00:03:39 ◼   ► artwork in each audio file is the new one, but the artwork for the show is the old one.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Right, yeah. The art node in the XML feed is the old Mac Pro, and that's what most clients

00:03:52 ◼   ► will display, including Overcast. But some clients will read from inside the MP3 file and show that

00:03:57 ◼   ► artwork, in which case those people have been seeing the new one. Yeah, and we get a lot of

00:04:01 ◼   ► feedback about, "Oh, well, is there a bug? Is something wrong here? Because sometimes I get

00:04:06 ◼   ► I get the cheese grater, sometimes I get the trash can,

00:04:09 ◼   ► and yeah, that's why.

00:04:10 ◼   ► It's because the XML feed, the RSS feed,

00:04:13 ◼   ► has one icon or one bit of artwork,

00:04:16 ◼   ► and the embedded, what is it,

00:04:18 ◼   ► ID3 tags have a different piece of artwork.

00:04:22 ◼   ► - So bear with us.

00:04:23 ◼   ► We'll make it through this together.

00:04:25 ◼   ► - All right, so with that said,

00:04:28 ◼   ► before we talk more about the Mac Pro and iGoToBed,

00:04:32 ◼   ► is there any follow-up that you might have, John,

00:04:34 ◼   ► about other things?

00:04:36 ◼   ► Last show we talked a lot about rating applications and the things we could do to add more valuable

00:04:42 ◼   ► signal to the suitability of applications besides just easily gamed star ratings and

00:04:49 ◼   ► reviews.

00:04:51 ◼   ► And one of the social things that we talked about was like what if you could know what

00:04:54 ◼   ► applications that your friends are using or that they like or whatever and the various

00:04:58 ◼   ► levels of creepiness and privacy violations of that.

00:05:01 ◼   ► And someone whose name I'm going to take a run at tweeted this today, Runak Jain maybe,

00:05:07 ◼   ► said that App Store pages have Facebook Like on them, which, you know, that's what more

00:05:12 ◼   ► could you ask for in terms of knowing what your friends do, because the Facebook Like

00:05:17 ◼   ► button is ubiquitous.

00:05:18 ◼   ► If people use Facebook, then they already have their relationships with people and they

00:05:21 ◼   ► can see which other friends like something.

00:05:25 ◼   ► I don't really think that's a solution for Apple though, and I don't think Apple thinks

00:05:28 ◼   ► it's a solution either.

00:05:29 ◼   ► seems more like a stopgap because A, it totally cuts out anybody who doesn't use Facebook,

00:05:35 ◼   ► and B, Apple, despite their integration with Facebook and Twitter, tends not to want to

00:05:40 ◼   ► rely on third-party companies for things that are important. And so I have to think that

00:05:46 ◼   ► that is in there just because Apple doesn't know what else to do, but it's not a viable

00:05:51 ◼   ► long-term solution. Personally, it doesn't help me at all because I don't use Facebook,

00:05:55 ◼   ► so that doesn't help at all. I do use the App Store, and if the App Store itself had

00:05:58 ◼   ► a system that was like this, I would use it because I used the App Store, but requiring

00:06:02 ◼   ► me to sign up for and use some other third-party service to make this happen is not really

00:06:06 ◼   ► the solution. And I also think that, okay, what if they did it with Twitter? You use

00:06:10 ◼   ► Twitter, right? Well, it's going to end up like one of those bottom of the blogs from

00:06:14 ◼   ► a couple years ago with 8,000 badges to like it and to post it to Google Buzz and to give

00:06:20 ◼   ► it a plus on Google+ and to retweet it on Twitter and to like it on Facebook. It's ridiculous.

00:06:26 ◼   ► is an actual solution to this, but it is worth pointing out that they've got that Facebook

00:06:29 ◼   ► thing integrated there. And I didn't recall that at all. Do you remember ever seeing,

00:06:35 ◼   ► let alone clicking on the little like button on the App Store pages?

00:06:38 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I mean, I have seen them. They added them, I think even, on iOS 6. Those have been

00:06:42 ◼   ► there for a while. However, maybe it's just me and my circle of friends. I've never seen

00:06:49 ◼   ► more than like one or two likes there, and I'm not really, like, I'm accustomed to ignoring

00:06:55 ◼   ► Facebook embed things all over the web with everything I see anyway, so I like noticed

00:06:59 ◼   ► it once and then ignored it for the rest of time.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like ad-badder blindness. I literally don't see that thing unless, until someone

00:07:05 ◼   ► tells me to look for it, and even then, has a hard time driving my eyes towards it because

00:07:09 ◼   ► they just bounce off and go around. It becomes invisible. Ad-badder blindness is a fascinating,

00:07:15 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure there's tons and tons of precedence for the same phenomenon, but to

00:07:20 ◼   ► have a name for it and to have such frequent occasion to see things, ad-badder blindness

00:07:24 ◼   ► is so insane that like I remember maybe five years ago I was about to write like

00:07:30 ◼   ► an angry maybe it was Twitter itself I think it was about to write an angry

00:07:34 ◼   ► email to the people who ran Twitter back in like 2007 to say that it's insane

00:07:37 ◼   ► that they don't have a huge honking button somewhere on there on one of

00:07:40 ◼   ► their pages to do some common function and the button was there but I literally

00:07:45 ◼   ► could not see it because it was surrounded by things that look like an

00:07:47 ◼   ► ad like it had enough adiness around it maybe it was the wrong shape the wrong

00:07:52 ◼   ► proportions or the wrong colors, my eyes just couldn't see it. And I searched the page,

00:07:56 ◼   ► and I'm scanning, and I'm like, "I can't believe this should be totally prominent."

00:07:59 ◼   ► And eventually I saw it, and it was just right in front of my face. And I was like, "Why

00:08:02 ◼   ► did I not see that ad banner blindness?" It's a real thing.

00:08:05 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. I mean, when I was designing Instapaper back in the day, the app didn't really have

00:08:12 ◼   ► a problem. But the website, I had one main content column, and then off to the right,

00:08:17 ◼   ► I had a little sidebar. And the content column would have the main list, and then the sidebar

00:08:21 ◼   ► I would have folders and then kind of other.

00:08:25 ◼   ► I kind of use it as a junk drawer.

00:08:27 ◼   ► That's where the export was.

00:08:29 ◼   ► That would be different management functions,

00:08:31 ◼   ► bulk delete, stuff like that.

00:08:33 ◼   ► I would constantly get feature requests

00:08:36 ◼   ► for features that I had already implemented

00:08:38 ◼   ► that were in that sidebar,

00:08:40 ◼   ► because people just did not see them.

00:08:42 ◼   ► It's a very hard problem in web design.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Anything that you put in a place that usually is an ad

00:08:49 ◼   ► in most layouts, like a sidebar or a big leaderboard on top

00:08:53 ◼   ► or something like that, people just will not see it.

00:08:55 ◼   ► You're totally right, that's a real thing.

00:08:57 ◼   ► And it's a big design challenge.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - The military should use it for camouflage

00:09:01 ◼   ► because if you make something look kind of like,

00:09:03 ◼   ► if you make it with the same proportions

00:09:05 ◼   ► as typical ad banner or with the same kind of colors

00:09:08 ◼   ► or like, you know, just sort of fuzzy

00:09:10 ◼   ► in your peripheral vision out of the corner of your eye,

00:09:11 ◼   ► if it looks vaguely like an ad,

00:09:13 ◼   ► your brain will never look at it.

00:09:14 ◼   ► So they just need to make tanks look like

00:09:16 ◼   ► giant Punch the Monkey ads.

00:09:17 ◼   ► - Like medium rectangle size.

00:09:19 ◼   ► That's not a soldier.

00:09:23 ◼   ► It's a skyscraper.

00:09:24 ◼   ► That's a new kind of dazzle camouflage.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Dazzle's very big right here.

00:09:28 ◼   ► All right, so the next bit is a couple of tweets about dual input displays.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Last show we talked about that slide that Apple had on the Mac Pro presentation, that

00:09:36 ◼   ► it supports single and dual input displays, and we were wondering what the hell is a dual

00:09:39 ◼   ► input display.

00:09:40 ◼   ► A couple of people have responded that there exist displays that it's like we suspected

00:09:49 ◼   ► In the case for higher resolution, they'll split the display into two parts, and they'll

00:09:53 ◼   ► have two connections, and one connection drives one part of the display, and the other connection

00:09:57 ◼   ► drives the other part, and there has to be sort of support on both ends of the connection

00:10:00 ◼   ► to keep things in sync, and so, you know, each side is showing the right image or whatever.

00:10:07 ◼   ► And I assume this was done before the advent of Thunderbolt 2, because it was the only

00:10:12 ◼   ► way then to drive a 4K display, because a single mini-display port in the old standard

00:10:17 ◼   ► or a Thunderbolt 1 connection or a DVI or whatever had a resolution limit that was insufficient

00:10:22 ◼   ► to drive a 4K display, so they said, "Fine, we'll just hook up two of those cables," and then one

00:10:26 ◼   ► gets one half of the display, the other half gets the other, and the operating system is aware of

00:10:30 ◼   ► what's going on and everything works. What I still don't know is, would dual input displays give us

00:10:37 ◼   ► the ability to have something that's above 4K resolution? In other words, could you have two

00:10:42 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 2 connections, and would that allow the Mac Pro with two Thunderbolt cables

00:10:47 ◼   ► going to this monitor be able to drive a higher than 4K display?

00:10:52 ◼   ► Seems like it should, but…

00:10:54 ◼   ► Knowing nothing else about it, I don't really see why not.

00:10:57 ◼   ► I mean, if, you know, like, these displays are, let's see, it says here, it's basically

00:11:03 ◼   ► left and right halves, so it's 1920 by 2160 for each half of a 4K display.

00:11:09 ◼   ► If you just make that a little bit bigger, you can accommodate 5120 by 2880, which is

00:11:18 ◼   ► the 27-inch version of retina from what we have today.

00:11:22 ◼   ► You can accommodate that very easily and not hit any bandwidth limits along the way if

00:11:26 ◼   ► you're doing left and right halves like that.

00:11:28 ◼   ► So it would work presumably the exact same way, just with a few more pixels.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And I don't know if anything like that exists, but what they were putting up on that slide,

00:11:36 ◼   ► thing that we weren't aware of is that before the advent of Thunderbolt 2, this is how everybody

00:11:40 ◼   ► supported 4K, and the Mac Pro supports this. So if you happen to have one of those monitors,

00:11:44 ◼   ► you're, you know, you're good to go. And interestingly, the new Retina Mac Pro,

00:11:48 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure, does not support that. I'll have to verify that, but I think there's

00:11:53 ◼   ► some support document somewhere that says the most it will do is 4K. And that's only

00:11:58 ◼   ► over HDMI, I think. I think actually 10.9.1 might be the first

00:12:01 ◼   ► release of OS X that adds support for this feature as well, so it's a hardware and software

00:12:05 ◼   ► combination to make sure that it supports, you know, dual input displays.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Right, because otherwise you'd have, like, you know, the menu bar would take up the left

00:12:13 ◼   ► half of the top of the screen, and weird stuff like that, as if it were two different displays,

00:12:18 ◼   ► so you wouldn't want that.

00:12:19 ◼   ► Yeah, and speaking of displays, and we'll talk more about the MacPro, but I put this

00:12:22 ◼   ► in the follow-up anyway, because we talked about that Sharp display that appeared briefly

00:12:26 ◼   ► on the European website and it disappeared.

00:12:30 ◼   ► Not only is it back as something you could order on the Apple retail store, or Apple

00:12:35 ◼   ► online store rather, with your Mac Pro, but if you were to go to the new version of the

00:12:40 ◼   ► Final Cut Pro X webpage at Apple.com, they show screenshots of Final Cut and they actually

00:12:46 ◼   ► show it running on these sharp monitors.

00:12:50 ◼   ► With the word "sharp" right in the front of them, they didn't even black out the logo

00:12:52 ◼   ► with the ugly little stand and it is really weird to see a big, you know, a prominent display of

00:13:00 ◼   ► non-Apple hardware on a product page, on a big product page. It's not an obscure thing. This is

00:13:05 ◼   ► not a tiny image off to the corner. This is a full width, gigantic image of sharp displays.

00:13:10 ◼   ► And I don't, do they even show Macs? Yeah, they show a couple of Thunderbolt displays as well.

00:13:15 ◼   ► But since they're really pushing 4K and all this other stuff, I guess, I mean, what choice do they

00:13:19 ◼   ► that, they have to show that, because if they're pushing 4K support, they have to show a 4K

00:13:23 ◼   ► monitor, and that's the only one they've got. So, God, I don't know. A lot of people are

00:13:29 ◼   ► saying that this just proves that they weren't ready with their 4K solutions, they had to

00:13:33 ◼   ► do something. Maybe, but the tiny little scared voice says, "Maybe they're just never going

00:13:38 ◼   ► to make a 4K monitor. Maybe they're just getting out of the monitor business, and you're just

00:13:42 ◼   ► going to have to buy one of these ugly plastic things someday."

00:13:46 ◼   ► Well, or, I mean, it could go a couple other ways too. I mean, it could be that the first

00:13:53 ◼   ► 5120x2880 panels that Apple ships might go into Retina iMac. You know, like, just similar

00:13:59 ◼   ► to how when the, when this iMac came out, the one that we have now, the 27-inch screen

00:14:04 ◼   ► when that first came out, as I said a couple shows ago, you could not buy a 27-inch 2560x1440

00:14:12 ◼   ► for anybody else for at least a few months

00:14:14 ◼   ► after they came out.

00:14:15 ◼   ► And certainly the 30-inch displays that had that resolution

00:14:20 ◼   ► were not as good, not as advanced.

00:14:22 ◼   ► You know, they had worse color, worse contrast,

00:14:24 ◼   ► worse brightness, stuff like that,

00:14:26 ◼   ► and they were more expensive.

00:14:28 ◼   ► It's possible, yeah, maybe they are just, you know,

00:14:31 ◼   ► saving these panels for the iMac first and saying,

00:14:33 ◼   ► oh, well, the Mac Pro customers can go

00:14:34 ◼   ► get their own monitors for now.

00:14:36 ◼   ► It's also possible, and these don't have

00:14:39 ◼   ► to be mutually exclusive, it's also possible

00:14:41 ◼   ► that they're simply not going to make a 4K monitor,

00:14:45 ◼   ► that they're gonna just jump right past that

00:14:48 ◼   ► and just make a 5120 by 2880 monitor.

00:14:50 ◼   ► They don't need to make a 3840 by whatever.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Maybe they just skip that because for the purpose

00:14:56 ◼   ► of their computer monitors, it's an awkward resolution

00:15:00 ◼   ► because of the size issues we discussed previously

00:15:03 ◼   ► where if you're gonna run that as a 2X retina monitor,

00:15:08 ◼   ► it pretty much can't be larger than about 24 inches.

00:15:11 ◼   ► And if you're gonna run it as a 1X monitor,

00:15:13 ◼   ► it has to be like 32 inches.

00:15:15 ◼   ► So it's, which is, you know,

00:15:17 ◼   ► a lot larger than what they make now

00:15:18 ◼   ► and a lot larger than what most people want on their desks.

00:15:21 ◼   ► So it's kind of a weird resolution to deal with

00:15:25 ◼   ► as general purpose computer monitors.

00:15:27 ◼   ► - And if you look at the screenshots

00:15:29 ◼   ► on the Final Cut Pro page,

00:15:30 ◼   ► they're not running those monitors in high DPI mode

00:15:32 ◼   ► as far as I can tell.

00:15:33 ◼   ► - They're definitely not.

00:15:34 ◼   ► - Look at the size of the menu bar on them.

00:15:35 ◼   ► They're running them in native res,

00:15:37 ◼   ► which is pretty squinty.

00:15:39 ◼   ► But it's right after my own heart of like,

00:15:43 ◼   ► yes please, no non-native radios on LCDs if you can help it.

00:15:46 ◼   ► If they're going to wait for it to go on the iMac first,

00:15:50 ◼   ► though, that is depressing,

00:15:51 ◼   ► because can you think about how long it's gonna take

00:15:53 ◼   ► for this to be an affordable display on an iMac?

00:15:56 ◼   ► For a, I think we need a better name for this thing.

00:15:59 ◼   ► How about a quad 27 inch?

00:16:01 ◼   ► It's basically, take the existing 27 inch Thunderbolt

00:16:03 ◼   ► display, make four of them, tack them together.

00:16:05 ◼   ► That's what we're talking about in terms of pixels.

00:16:07 ◼   ► All right, so for a quad 27-inch display, it's going to be a long time before that is

00:16:14 ◼   ► inexpensive enough to go in an iMac, because this one, this 4K display that isn't even

00:16:18 ◼   ► that high resolution is $4,000.

00:16:21 ◼   ► So maybe next year it halves in price and it's $2,000.

00:16:23 ◼   ► One more year, it's down to $1,000.

00:16:25 ◼   ► This isn't even as high resolution as what we're talking about, so I don't want to

00:16:28 ◼   ► worry.

00:16:29 ◼   ► Well, to be fair, though, like pro-monitors are always a lot more expensive than similar

00:16:33 ◼   ► quality desktop monitors from, like, you know, for normal use.

00:16:36 ◼   ► monitors have different color and accuracy requirements and stuff like that.

00:16:40 ◼   ► Yeah, but the 27-inch iMac, when that monitor—that has really good color quality, too. When that

00:16:44 ◼   ► first came to the iMac, maybe it wasn't super-duper calibrated professional photography,

00:16:49 ◼   ► but it was really good quality. Sure, yeah, but I mean, you look at the Dell,

00:16:53 ◼   ► the new Dell U-whatever, the U24, the 24-inch Dell 4K display. It's $1,200 or $1,300—I

00:17:00 ◼   ► think it's $1,300 regular, but you know, every time you look at a Dell thing, it's

00:17:03 ◼   ► different price. So it's about $1200 and it's 24 inch 4K. And that's really cheap compared

00:17:11 ◼   ► to everything else we've seen so far. I think they even said the 28 inch version is going

00:17:15 ◼   ► to be cheaper. I think it's going to be like $800 but I think it might not be as good of

00:17:18 ◼   ► a panel, something like that. But the point is, I think the Dell 24 inch 4K shows that

00:17:27 ◼   ► this might not be as far off as we think. For this to be affordable, for this to be

00:17:32 ◼   ► be available and affordable in our quad 27-inch theoretical resolution, maybe this comes out

00:17:39 ◼   ► in six months or a year.

00:17:41 ◼   ► And maybe Apple charges $1,500 to $2,000 for it.

00:17:45 ◼   ► So I guess we should transition right into Mac Pro discussion because we're basically

00:17:49 ◼   ► talking about it.

00:17:50 ◼   ► And I think Casey put this question at the bottom of the follow-up here.

00:17:53 ◼   ► I did.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Did anyone buy a Mac Pro?

00:17:56 ◼   ► We are sponsored once again this week by our friends at Warby Parker.

00:18:01 ◼   ► Warby Parker believes that prescription eyeglasses simply should not cost $300 or more.

00:18:06 ◼   ► They should even be affordable enough for people to accessorize and have multiple pairs

00:18:09 ◼   ► if they want to.

00:18:11 ◼   ► Warby Parker bypasses the traditional channels and sells higher quality, better looking prescription

00:18:15 ◼   ► eyewear online at a fraction of the price starting at just $95 at warbyparker.com.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Their designs are vintage inspired with a contemporary twist.

00:18:25 ◼   ► And let me interrupt the script for a second here.

00:18:28 ◼   ► According to what I'm seeing online with people talking about this stuff, these things are

00:18:31 ◼   ► cool.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Like, this isn't just like, you know, crappy eyeglasses you get like off the stand at your

00:18:35 ◼   ► eye doctor.

00:18:37 ◼   ► Like these are like, people think these are trendy and cool and I can't judge that because

00:18:41 ◼   ► I'm terrible at that but I can verify that other people who are good at this stuff are

00:18:47 ◼   ► telling me that Warby Parker stuff is cool.

00:18:50 ◼   ► Every pair is custom fit with an anti-reflective, anti-glare polycarbonate prescription lens

00:18:55 ◼   ► and every pair comes with a hard case and cleaning cloth so you don't need to buy any

00:18:57 ◼   ► more accessories besides the glasses. And you guys have the hard case, Tiff has the

00:19:01 ◼   ► hard case for her pair, and everyone says this is a really good case. It's like strong,

00:19:08 ◼   ► it's fuzzy inside, it's a great case.

00:19:10 ◼   ► Buying glasses online sounds like it would be risky. Like how would you know whether

00:19:13 ◼   ► they will fit or how they'll look on you. But Warby actually has some pretty cool tools

00:19:18 ◼   ► to cover these questions. So first of all, their website has a helpful tool that uses

00:19:22 ◼   ► your computer's webcam to give you a preview of how the glasses will look on your face.

00:19:26 ◼   ► It can even help you measure your eyes and face

00:19:28 ◼   ► to get the fit exactly right.

00:19:30 ◼   ► A little story here, when we first got Tiff's pair,

00:19:33 ◼   ► we couldn't get her eye doctor to give us the prescription

00:19:36 ◼   ► because they were weird.

00:19:37 ◼   ► And so we used the online tool to measure

00:19:40 ◼   ► and just estimate what the prescription,

00:19:42 ◼   ► or what the distance is,

00:19:43 ◼   ► whatever it is between the eyes, what that was.

00:19:46 ◼   ► And then a few days later,

00:19:47 ◼   ► the eye doctor caved and gave us that information.

00:19:50 ◼   ► And what we measured from Warby Parker's webcam tool

00:19:52 ◼   ► was exactly the same.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Like it worked perfectly.

00:19:55 ◼   ► so that thing is really cool.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Best part though about Warby Parker

00:19:58 ◼   ► is that they have this awesome home try-on program.

00:20:01 ◼   ► You can borrow up to five pairs of glasses risk-free

00:20:05 ◼   ► that they will ship to you for free.

00:20:07 ◼   ► You can try them on in the comfort of your own home

00:20:09 ◼   ► for five days, then just send them back

00:20:11 ◼   ► with a prepaid return label,

00:20:12 ◼   ► and there's no obligation to buy.

00:20:14 ◼   ► They also offer prescription and non-prescription

00:20:16 ◼   ► polarized sunglasses,

00:20:17 ◼   ► and I love polarized sunglasses personally.

00:20:19 ◼   ► If you've only ever had non-polarized,

00:20:21 ◼   ► you don't know what you're missing, really.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Polarized sunglasses are awesome.

00:20:24 ◼   ► and this is a great price even for non-prescription polaroid sunglasses.

00:20:28 ◼   ► What's also great about Warby Parker is that they believe in giving back to the

00:20:31 ◼   ► world.

00:20:32 ◼   ► Almost a billion people lack access to glasses and cannot effectively learn or

00:20:35 ◼   ► work.

00:20:36 ◼   ► For every pair of glasses they sell, Warby Parker gives another pair to someone in

00:20:39 ◼   ► need through non-profits such as Vision Sprint.

00:20:42 ◼   ► This is all fantastic. Go to warbyparker.com/ATP.

00:20:48 ◼   ► Check out their great selection of premium quality, affordable eyewear,

00:20:51 ◼   ► Browse around, get yourself the home try-on kit risk-free.

00:20:54 ◼   ► It's awesome.

00:20:56 ◼   ► So that's very simple.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Even this time, we made it even easier for you.

00:20:59 ◼   ► You don't have to worry about the coupon code, which was ATP,

00:21:02 ◼   ► if you still want to use it.

00:21:03 ◼   ► But if you just go to warbyparker.com/ATP,

00:21:07 ◼   ► you'll remember that you came from us,

00:21:08 ◼   ► and you'll get the free shipping on the final order

00:21:11 ◼   ► and everything like that.

00:21:11 ◼   ► It'll be great.

00:21:12 ◼   ► So go to warbyparker.com/ATP, get your home try-on kit.

00:21:16 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Warby Parker for sponsoring the show.

00:21:18 ◼   ► Can you explain to me why polarized sunglasses are good since you wear them yourself?

00:21:23 ◼   ► Because normally the reason you wear sunglasses, like I wear them almost all the time when

00:21:28 ◼   ► I'm driving, the function of sunglasses is to reduce the amount of light that is making

00:21:35 ◼   ► your eyes have to squint and say, "Ah, that hurts my eyes."

00:21:39 ◼   ► So you can do that in a couple of ways.

00:21:41 ◼   ► You can do that by just cutting the light by a lot, like putting a fogged black piece

00:21:46 ◼   ► of glass in front of your face and just cutting down the amount of light a lot.

00:21:49 ◼   ► Polarized glasses, and I'm a little unclear as to why this has this

00:21:55 ◼   ► effect, but the polarizing filter with the light going through in only one

00:21:59 ◼   ► vibration direction or whatever, it makes it so that you don't need to reduce the

00:22:04 ◼   ► amount of light coming in as much to get the... for your eyes to be able to open

00:22:10 ◼   ► fully and, you know, not be squinting all the time and not have that fatigue. I

00:22:14 ◼   ► I don't know why that is the case, but it is. So the the

00:22:18 ◼   ► The you know the outcome here is that you can you don't have to have everything be as dark

00:22:23 ◼   ► But it still feels good and your eyes get relieved

00:22:26 ◼   ► I don't remember if the sunglasses I got are polarized or not well if you got them from where we parker

00:22:31 ◼   ► I think they all I think they all yeah, right yep

00:22:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I got them after the end of sunglasses

00:22:36 ◼   ► So I'll have to try them out this summer and see see how that it goes. You know what you need to do is if

00:22:43 ◼   ► Marco ever visits you and if he brings his m5 or just Tifs car have a heads-up display

00:22:49 ◼   ► Yes, it does damn it on the money

00:22:51 ◼   ► Anyway, I hate you so much

00:22:53 ◼   ► Anyway, the point is if you if you look at the heads-up display if you look at it at the wrong angle

00:22:59 ◼   ► It will disappear and that's how you know, you know, I just get out one of my old

00:23:03 ◼   ► LCD calculators and well, I think I think any LCD this this effect works on I'm pretty sure I don't think they found a way

00:23:10 ◼   ► to make this not happen, because LCDs have a polarizer as the front layer, at least they

00:23:14 ◼   ► used to. As far as I know, this works on any, because basically the idea is if the LCD polarizer

00:23:20 ◼   ► is at a 90 degree angle to the polarizer on your face, it blocks all light. So that an

00:23:25 ◼   ► LCD screen, if you turn it, if you rotate it around, at some point when you're wearing

00:23:29 ◼   ► polarized sunglasses, it should become black.

00:23:31 ◼   ► That's true, but I've never noticed that in my car, which does not mean you are wrong,

00:23:35 ◼   ► it doesn't mean that it's not the case. I've just never noticed it.

00:23:38 ◼   ► I think modern LCDs have like a diffuser on it that scrambles up all the light so it's

00:23:42 ◼   ► not all… it unpolarizes it after that point?

00:23:45 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:23:46 ◼   ► Something will tell us.

00:23:47 ◼   ► But anyway, yes, we have many ways to tell, and yes, that's what I was saying, what

00:23:49 ◼   ► you do with the old calculator way, if you had a polarized thing, you just twist it and

00:23:52 ◼   ► it turns black.

00:23:53 ◼   ► Right.

00:23:54 ◼   ► So thanks to Warby Parker for sponsoring, and I've mentioned this several times in

00:23:58 ◼   ► the past because they've been kind enough to sponsor us several times, but one of the

00:24:02 ◼   ► great things about Home Tryon is that you can grab several lenses… not lenses, excuse

00:24:07 ◼   ► several frames and you can try all of them.

00:24:11 ◼   ► You can try up to five.

00:24:12 ◼   ► And what I did when I got my sunglasses is I put in like three or four that I thought

00:24:20 ◼   ► were my general style, my standard style.

00:24:23 ◼   ► And they were not hipster at all.

00:24:25 ◼   ► And then I put in one or two that were kind of hipster.

00:24:28 ◼   ► And as it ends up, I actually chose one of the hipster frames because I thought they

00:24:32 ◼   ► looked the best.

00:24:33 ◼   ► And so I am very glad that I was able to try them on at home because if I were not able

00:24:40 ◼   ► to try on several or if I were only able to try on one or two, I don't think I would have

00:24:44 ◼   ► chosen the frames I got and I really, really, really like them and they're really great.

00:24:49 ◼   ► So definitely check them out.

00:24:50 ◼   ► Yeah, Tiff's were even better.

00:24:52 ◼   ► For her home try-on, she only picked three, but they give you five.

00:24:56 ◼   ► So they just picked two other ones that were similar to the ones she had picked, but like

00:25:00 ◼   ► a little bit different.

00:25:01 ◼   ► then she ended up choosing one of the ones they picked for her.

00:25:04 ◼   ► Nice.

00:25:05 ◼   ► Anyway, thanks to Warby Parker. They're awesome. If you wear glasses or if you want to wear

00:25:09 ◼   ► glasses, go to warbyparker.com/atp.

00:25:13 ◼   ► That's a free tip for them. What they should do is have a button that says, "I can't choose

00:25:16 ◼   ► frames. Here's a picture of me. Send me five that you think will look good on me." Just

00:25:21 ◼   ► cut out, because that's the—you know, sometimes that's the best part, and it's also like the

00:25:24 ◼   ► most nerve-wracking part of like, "Oh, which ones do I want?" And sometimes, especially

00:25:27 ◼   ► if you are fashion disabled as I am.

00:25:30 ◼   ► Can you just click a button and say,

00:25:32 ◼   ► "Look, this is a picture of me, this is what I look like.

00:25:35 ◼   ► "Just send me something."

00:25:37 ◼   ► - It's a serious affliction, we shouldn't joke about that.

00:25:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:25:40 ◼   ► - So John, today Mac Pros were available for order.

00:25:45 ◼   ► Did you order a new Mac Pro?

00:25:47 ◼   ► - No, and you knew I wasn't, because I said last show

00:25:49 ◼   ► that I wanna wait for gaming benchmarks and other things.

00:25:51 ◼   ► I did click around on the store, but I did not order one.

00:25:55 ◼   ► - Now Casey, why aren't we asking you

00:25:57 ◼   ► If you want a new Mac Pro, did you order a new Mac Pro?

00:26:00 ◼   ► - I did.

00:26:01 ◼   ► - Really?

00:26:02 ◼   ► - No, God, no, don't be silly.

00:26:04 ◼   ► Of course not.

00:26:06 ◼   ► No, there's no part of me that desires a non-mobile computer

00:26:11 ◼   ► and I'm not saying I'm right,

00:26:13 ◼   ► I'm not saying that this makes sense,

00:26:14 ◼   ► but for me, I've ever since, geez, I don't know, 2002,

00:26:19 ◼   ► I've always had laptops

00:26:22 ◼   ► and I've either exclusively had laptops

00:26:25 ◼   ► or almost exclusively had laptops.

00:26:27 ◼   ► And I've always preferred that form factor

00:26:30 ◼   ► because I guess by and large,

00:26:32 ◼   ► I don't need a million gigabytes of storage space

00:26:36 ◼   ► within my computer.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I don't need a lot of the things that you guys need.

00:26:39 ◼   ► I don't mean that to patronize you.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I mean that genuinely.

00:26:42 ◼   ► And so I've always preferred to have mobile computers.

00:26:46 ◼   ► And because of that, I actually have two MacBook Pros.

00:26:49 ◼   ► One is from work, one is one that I bought.

00:26:52 ◼   ► And I've been considering buying a retina MacBook Pro,

00:26:55 ◼   ► but no, I did not buy a Mac Pro.

00:26:58 ◼   ► - Do you have an external monitor hooked up to that?

00:27:00 ◼   ► - I do, I do.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - Don't you feel kind of weird though,

00:27:03 ◼   ► like that you're using this thing

00:27:05 ◼   ► that itself has a screen and a keyboard on it,

00:27:07 ◼   ► but you're not using that screen

00:27:09 ◼   ► and you're not using that keyboard,

00:27:10 ◼   ► you've got another keyboard and another input device

00:27:12 ◼   ► and you're looking at a different screen.

00:27:14 ◼   ► - Whoa, slow down, sir.

00:27:16 ◼   ► So what I have at home is an external Apple

00:27:21 ◼   ► Bluetooth keyboard.

00:27:22 ◼   ► One of the ones that takes, I think it's four batteries.

00:27:25 ◼   ► I have a magic mouse that I use both at work and at home.

00:27:29 ◼   ► And then I have a Samsung display

00:27:32 ◼   ► that's something around 20 inches at home.

00:27:34 ◼   ► And there's a plethora of different displays

00:27:37 ◼   ► that we use at work, all of which are around the same size.

00:27:41 ◼   ► But I always, always, always use dual displays.

00:27:45 ◼   ► So at work, I have two displays, at home,

00:27:47 ◼   ► I have two displays.

00:27:48 ◼   ► And I think it's absolutely barbaric

00:27:50 ◼   ► to not use two displays.

00:27:52 ◼   ► But it's still a mess. One of your screens has this keyboard hanging off of it that you

00:27:55 ◼   ► don't use unless it's on your lap. And it's got a trackpad in front of that that you don't

00:27:59 ◼   ► use because you're using your Magic Mouse. And that monitor is too low unless you prop

00:28:02 ◼   ► it up on a stand. And then it has that big thing jutting out in front of you. If you

00:28:06 ◼   ► want two screens, get two screens. I think there's room in everyone's life for a desktop.

00:28:11 ◼   ► In defense of the setup that you were just making fun of, Jon, I had that setup for the

00:28:16 ◼   ► first few years of Tumblr, and it was great. I mean, when I did finally get a Mac Pro and

00:28:20 ◼   ► dual monitors, that was better. But the setup of having a laptop on a stand and then having

00:28:27 ◼   ► a full-size keyboard and mouse on the desktop and then having a big monitor plugged into

00:28:31 ◼   ► the laptop. So the laptop, you're right, it's just sitting there floating, not being used,

00:28:35 ◼   ► except it's screen. So you have the big display as your primary, you have the laptop display

00:28:39 ◼   ► as your secondary, and then you have full-size keyboard and mouse on the desk, laptops on

00:28:43 ◼   ► a stand. That's a great setup. Your desk is going to be covered in wires, but that is

00:28:48 ◼   ► a great setup.

00:28:49 ◼   ► it better if you could fold the laptop back so that the part that you're not using is

00:28:54 ◼   ► back behind the display, you know what I mean?

00:28:58 ◼   ► Like a slate tablet?

00:28:59 ◼   ► No, no, I understand what you're saying.

00:29:02 ◼   ► You'd still need a little stand.

00:29:03 ◼   ► You'd just get rid of that part, that horizontal part that's jutting out towards you just looking

00:29:07 ◼   ► stupid with input devices that you're not using.

00:29:10 ◼   ► I mean, it does look stupid.

00:29:13 ◼   ► If a normal person walks by your desk, and that's your setup, they will make fun of it.

00:29:16 ◼   ► But then you see them hunched over their desk, hunched over a laptop that's just flat on

00:29:21 ◼   ► the desk all day long, and they complain why their neck and shoulders hurt.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Yeah, no, laptops are ergonomic nightmares.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:27 ◼   ► All right, anyway, Casey did not get a Mac Pro.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Marco, the only person left who could have conceivably bought one.

00:29:35 ◼   ► So I said previously that I was probably not going to get one until they had retina displays.

00:29:42 ◼   ► So I bought one.

00:29:43 ◼   ► Well, technically, it had a retina display.

00:29:45 ◼   ► You just never qualified that it had to be an Apple Retina display.

00:29:48 ◼   ► It was implied, but technically if we go back and listen to the tape, you'll hear that you

00:29:51 ◼   ► just said, "Well, if they offer, they did offer Retina displays."

00:29:54 ◼   ► It's right there on the page.

00:29:55 ◼   ► When you scroll down, you can click, "Would you like to add a 4K display?"

00:29:58 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:59 ◼   ► And if you don't look really closely, you might think, "Wow, Apple has a 4K display,"

00:30:02 ◼   ► which I thought for a millisecond when I first saw that page, and I said, "No, it's just

00:30:05 ◼   ► a stupid sharp one.

00:30:06 ◼   ► It's just a small icon."

00:30:08 ◼   ► You put that Mavericks background on it, "It's an Apple display."

00:30:11 ◼   ► No, it's not.

00:30:12 ◼   ► And I didn't buy that display, the 4K that Apple's offering now.

00:30:16 ◼   ► So I ordered one. I probably wouldn't have ordered one

00:30:20 ◼   ► today if they were going to be just like in stock normally.

00:30:24 ◼   ► And I could just buy one whenever I wanted. But, and I didn't want

00:30:28 ◼   ► it so badly that I was going to order it at 3am. So I woke up this morning,

00:30:32 ◼   ► took care of my family, did all the morning stuff, and then checked. And it said

00:30:36 ◼   ► "Shipping in February." Okay. Well,

00:30:40 ◼   ► I guess I should probably think about ordering if I want anytime soon.

00:30:44 ◼   ► So there's a thing in New York State where

00:30:48 ◼   ► New York State computer hardware is sales tax exempt

00:30:52 ◼   ► if it's going to be used primarily for software development or making websites.

00:30:56 ◼   ► Which mine is. But to get the sales tax exempt thing

00:31:00 ◼   ► you have to either file for it later with the state after you have paid it and try to get reimbursed, which is

00:31:04 ◼   ► a disaster of paperwork that I don't even want to attempt, or buy it through

00:31:08 ◼   ► an Apple business rep. That's what I did. I emailed the business rep at my store and

00:31:13 ◼   ► I said, "Hey, I want one of these things. Let's do it." Which is good because that also

00:31:18 ◼   ► comes with a small discount. Mine was discounted something like $400 by the business rep. It

00:31:23 ◼   ► was a pretty good discount.

00:31:24 ◼   ► That's not small.

00:31:25 ◼   ► And so I did that because I even asked him, "You think I'm going to get this before February?"

00:31:32 ◼   ► Like the website. And he's like, "Well, we can put it in the separate order system. There's

00:31:35 ◼   ► kind of priority but probably not basically was the answer. So I got it and

00:31:41 ◼   ► mainly because I think between now and February a lot of people are gonna get

00:31:46 ◼   ► these things and everyone else can figure out what is the best retina

00:31:50 ◼   ► monitor situation solution if any right now. Is it the Dells? Is it these other

00:31:55 ◼   ► things? Who knows. Everyone else will have time to figure that out and then by the

00:31:59 ◼   ► time I get mine I can decide then either to keep using my display and hope the

00:32:03 ◼   ► the cable doesn't flake out.

00:32:05 ◼   ► Keep using my 30 inch that I have now

00:32:06 ◼   ► until Apple makes their own four times

00:32:10 ◼   ► the 27 inch that we have today.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Or I can go Dell.

00:32:14 ◼   ► I mean, I've actually, as I said,

00:32:16 ◼   ► I've never even had an Apple display,

00:32:18 ◼   ► so it wouldn't be outrageous for me

00:32:19 ◼   ► to buy a non-Apple display again,

00:32:22 ◼   ► because I've never bought an Apple display.

00:32:24 ◼   ► So that's what I'm going with.

00:32:26 ◼   ► - Was there ever really any doubt in your mind

00:32:28 ◼   ► that you would immediately insta-buy the new Mac Pro?

00:32:31 ◼   ► I really thought that I would wait until the spring and see what people said about them,

00:32:38 ◼   ► see how big of a performance gain there was from the old one, stuff like that.

00:32:43 ◼   ► That's what you said. You were like, "Oh, I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait until

00:32:46 ◼   ► all the retina stuff's ready." And you were totally gung-ho in the waiting, so much so

00:32:50 ◼   ► that I was like, "Yeah, maybe I'll wait like Marco, but I should have known. You're never

00:32:54 ◼   ► going to wait."

00:32:54 ◼   ► Well, the other thing is, with almost all Apple hardware, the price doesn't ever go

00:33:00 ◼   ► down during the life cycle of the product.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Especially, I mean Macs especially, iOS I guess has changed that a lot.

00:33:06 ◼   ► But in the Mac area, it's not like this Mac Pro is going to cost $1000 less in six months.

00:33:13 ◼   ► The price does not change.

00:33:15 ◼   ► It's going to stay this exact same price from now through whenever the next one comes out.

00:33:21 ◼   ► The Mac Pro has only had a price drop once and that was the quote update last year that

00:33:26 ◼   ► they did that wasn't really an update that caused our logo to exist.

00:33:30 ◼   ► So besides that, there's never been a price drop on a current Mac Pro.

00:33:34 ◼   ► Whether I buy it now or whether I buy it in six months doesn't make much of a difference,

00:33:40 ◼   ► really.

00:33:41 ◼   ► It's like you're paying the same price.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Might as well have it sooner and have all that extra performance sooner.

00:33:46 ◼   ► Because there's a lot of stuff I do today that will benefit from the extra speed.

00:33:51 ◼   ► Quite a lot, actually.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Especially with the production of this show and a bunch of image editing tasks I often

00:33:56 ◼   ► do.

00:33:57 ◼   ► batch operations on big folders full of images and stuff like that where I parallelize everything.

00:34:01 ◼   ► I mean, there's a lot that I'm going to gain from it immediately. And it's not going to be like,

00:34:06 ◼   ► you know, tremendous, like 10 times faster than what I have now. But it is going to be between

00:34:11 ◼   ► one and a half and two times faster than what I have now. And that will add up.

00:34:14 ◼   ► So what did you get? You had 8 core, 32 gig terabyte?

00:34:17 ◼   ► Yep, exactly. And so I think I would say that the best value configuration, if you want like the

00:34:24 ◼   ► best bang for your buck, it's the 6 core. No question. The 8 core is probably not worth

00:34:30 ◼   ► its price. It's a lot more money for the 8 core. It's probably not worth it for most

00:34:34 ◼   ► people. You know, not only do you, because like Turbo Boost is basically the same between

00:34:39 ◼   ► the two. 6 core is only 500 bucks more. 8 core is 1500 more than the 6 core. So that's

00:34:47 ◼   ► a big price difference. The only thing is the 8 core does have double the cash. It's

00:34:53 ◼   ► even more actually, it's 12 versus 25 megabytes.

00:34:56 ◼   ► So it has a lot more cache.

00:34:58 ◼   ► That will affect performance,

00:35:00 ◼   ► not as much as like two more cores would,

00:35:02 ◼   ► but that will have an effect on performance

00:35:05 ◼   ► that's noticeable for auto workloads.

00:35:06 ◼   ► So the eight core is, and what's interesting,

00:35:10 ◼   ► there's a big reason, I blogged this whole turbo boost thing,

00:35:13 ◼   ► I linked to it again today,

00:35:14 ◼   ► I'm not gonna go over it in the show

00:35:15 ◼   ► 'cause it's too long and boring,

00:35:16 ◼   ► and of course I would never do something like that

00:35:18 ◼   ► in the show, but basically the 12 core

00:35:21 ◼   ► actually going to be slower than the 8 core for a lot of things. For almost anything that's

00:35:26 ◼   ► not using every core all the time, the 8 core is going to be the fastest chip in the lineup.

00:35:31 ◼   ► And that's one of the reasons why Apple has given all their reviewers the 8 core model

00:35:35 ◼   ► and not the 12 core model.

00:35:36 ◼   ► So what GPU did you get?

00:35:38 ◼   ► I was all set to get the D500, the middle one, but I ended up going with the D700. And

00:35:43 ◼   ► the reason why is because once I priced this whole thing out, the price difference, you

00:35:48 ◼   ► know, it's like price relative.

00:35:49 ◼   ► 600 extra dollars and it's a small percentage of the enormous cost of this machine.

00:35:54 ◼   ► Right, and with the discount it was probably more like $525 or $550, something like that,

00:35:58 ◼   ► whatever it was. It was less. So yeah, there was that price relativism. If I thought of

00:36:02 ◼   ► it separately, do I want to spend $600 on this extra GPU? I might have said no. But

00:36:06 ◼   ► it's like, well, I already am spending all this stuff. What's the extra few percentage

00:36:11 ◼   ► points on top of that? And I did that because the GPUs probably can't be reasonably upgraded.

00:36:18 ◼   ► can't be reasonably upgraded.

00:36:20 ◼   ► Yes, they're on slots.

00:36:21 ◼   ► Yes, technically they are replaceable,

00:36:24 ◼   ► but you can only replace them with other Apple supplied

00:36:28 ◼   ► parts.

00:36:29 ◼   ► Chances are they're going to cost a fortune to replace these.

00:36:32 ◼   ► If you wanted to upgrade these things in two years,

00:36:35 ◼   ► it's not going to cost you $600.

00:36:36 ◼   ► It's probably going to cost you like $1,500, $2,000.

00:36:39 ◼   ► It's going to cost you a lot.

00:36:41 ◼   ► It would be like upgrading your motherboard and your Mac Pro.

00:36:45 ◼   ► That's not going to be a cheap operation,

00:36:47 ◼   ► even if Apple will sell you the part.

00:36:48 ◼   ► So, and it's not gonna be like,

00:36:50 ◼   ► I'm guessing like OWC is not gonna make their own

00:36:53 ◼   ► replacement GPU that will work with this.

00:36:55 ◼   ► It was mainly that it's gonna be,

00:36:57 ◼   ► it's the kind of thing that basically is not replaceable

00:36:59 ◼   ► over the lifetime of the machine.

00:37:01 ◼   ► So for a very small difference, I can get the best one.

00:37:04 ◼   ► I did it mostly so that I don't regret

00:37:07 ◼   ► not getting the best one in like two years

00:37:09 ◼   ► and I'm still using this and then all of a sudden

00:37:11 ◼   ► I'm hitting the barrier of the D500 on something I'm doing.

00:37:15 ◼   ► You know, and that might never happen,

00:37:16 ◼   ► That's the risk I take, I guess.

00:37:18 ◼   ► And then when I eventually resell this,

00:37:21 ◼   ► it'll be worth a little bit more.

00:37:22 ◼   ► So here's where I'm at with this Mac Pro thing.

00:37:25 ◼   ► Way back in the day, you were going to wait,

00:37:26 ◼   ► and I had to buy immediately because I can't stand

00:37:28 ◼   ► this old Mac Pro anymore.

00:37:29 ◼   ► But now that the thing is out and that I've

00:37:31 ◼   ► played with the price configurator and all that stuff,

00:37:33 ◼   ► god, these things are expensive.

00:37:36 ◼   ► That's a lot of money.

00:37:37 ◼   ► And I'm in the configurator, and the first time you run through,

00:37:41 ◼   ► you just go pick everything you want.

00:37:42 ◼   ► And then you look at the price, and you're like, yeah,

00:37:43 ◼   ► that's not going to happen.

00:37:45 ◼   ► So then I gotta go and say, "What do I sacrifice?"

00:37:47 ◼   ► Well, so, you know, six core.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Let's go back down from eight core,

00:37:50 ◼   ► 'cause that's the easy win.

00:37:50 ◼   ► All right, that makes it cheaper.

00:37:52 ◼   ► The GPU, I had picked the 700 in the first run-through,

00:37:57 ◼   ► 'cause like half the reason I'm buying this thing

00:37:58 ◼   ► is 'cause I want a big GPU.

00:37:59 ◼   ► I don't need all that VRAM,

00:38:01 ◼   ► but I do like the execution units.

00:38:02 ◼   ► And again, without gaming benchmarks,

00:38:04 ◼   ► I don't know if it's going to serve my needs,

00:38:06 ◼   ► because this machine is not made for me.

00:38:09 ◼   ► I'm just trying to use it because it's the only machine

00:38:12 ◼   ► that comes with something more than a mobile GPU

00:38:14 ◼   ► from Apple. And I don't want a mobile GPU, I want a gaming GPU. Apple doesn't offer gaming

00:38:19 ◼   ► GPUs anymore. They offer professional GPUs, which are these monster things in here that

00:38:23 ◼   ► are not what I want or need and might not even run games that well, we'll see. Or I

00:38:28 ◼   ► have a mobile GPU. And so I'm trying to make this machine into something that it's really

00:38:32 ◼   ► not. And so I can't bring the GPU down. And the other thing about this machine is that

00:38:39 ◼   ► both of us were kind of, you are still caught up in this, but we were both caught up in

00:38:42 ◼   ► the idea of like, this is when the desktop is going to go retina.

00:38:46 ◼   ► Lapsops have gone, well not the Air, but the regular MacBook Pros have gone retina, all

00:38:50 ◼   ► the iOS devices are retina, finally with this crazy ass thing, black cylinder thing, we're

00:38:57 ◼   ► going to have the power to go retina on the desktop.

00:39:00 ◼   ► It's not going to come to the iMac first, it's going to come to the Mac Pro first, because

00:39:03 ◼   ► Mac Pro costs a bajillion dollars and it can run a retina display.

00:39:06 ◼   ► And you're still holding on to that dream, but at this point I'm kind of like, I have

00:39:10 ◼   ► give up on the Retina Dream, at least for 2014. Like, Retina is not a suicide pact.

00:39:15 ◼   ► I'm not gonna—I can't spend, like, my entire life savings on this machine to try

00:39:18 ◼   ► to get just a desktop to spray with something in Retina. I have to just—I have to just

00:39:22 ◼   ► let it go and say, "It's not gonna happen next year." There's no—like, 'cause

00:39:26 ◼   ► you know what I want? I want the big quad 27-inch display that doesn't even exist,

00:39:30 ◼   ► that might not even be able to be driven by this thing anyway. And so if I look at this

00:39:35 ◼   ► as a machine not driving—and by the way, if I was gonna buy a Retina to spray, that's

00:39:39 ◼   ► adding another $1,500 to $4,000 just depending on what display I get to the cost of this

00:39:44 ◼   ► already tremendously expensive thing.

00:39:46 ◼   ► And if I don't get a retina display, then I have to ask, what is this machine getting

00:39:52 ◼   ► me that upgrading my existing Mac Pro wouldn't?

00:39:56 ◼   ► What if I just put in a fast SSD and a gaming card into my existing Mac Pro?

00:40:01 ◼   ► Like would that run games better and CPU stuff acceptedly?

00:40:05 ◼   ► I know it would feel faster because I have a really big SSD and my Mac Pro would work

00:40:08 ◼   ► and I know it feels way faster than the spinning disk here. So I know what that's like. And a

00:40:13 ◼   ► gaming card upgrade, I know what that would be like too. That would be way cheaper. And I wouldn't

00:40:17 ◼   ► like think about buying this Mac Pro. I would also have to like, I'd have all these disks and external

00:40:21 ◼   ► enclosures that are like firewire enclosures. And yeah, I have the NAS and everything, but I don't

00:40:25 ◼   ► want to just get rid of those firewire disks. So would I have to buy a Thunderbolt enclosure to put

00:40:30 ◼   ► that stuff in? Would I have to buy a Thunderbolt hub that I can connect to? Like the money just

00:40:34 ◼   ► keeps flowing out of me and into the hands of Apple and these other people.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And I don't know if I should buy this machine.

00:40:43 ◼   ► I don't know if I should just wait until—like you said, it's not like I'll wait six months

00:40:47 ◼   ► and they'll be cheaper.

00:40:48 ◼   ► No, they won't.

00:40:49 ◼   ► They're not going to get cheaper until the new versions come out next year.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Maybe if I'm lucky at WWDC, they'll announce revised Mac Pros, right?

00:40:55 ◼   ► Well, it won't be that soon because the next Xeon chips won't even be out until, I think,

00:41:00 ◼   ► Q4 next year.

00:41:01 ◼   ► The CPUs won't be the same, but as I said, the GPUs that are in these are already based

00:41:05 ◼   ► on AMD's previous gen core.

00:41:09 ◼   ► They have revised their GPU core.

00:41:11 ◼   ► So it is conceivable that WWC could roll around, which is kind of the year anniversary of the

00:41:15 ◼   ► machine but not really, like the year anniversary of the announcement.

00:41:18 ◼   ► And they'll say, "Oh, well, it's got the same Xeon's because what else could they put in

00:41:21 ◼   ► it?"

00:41:22 ◼   ► Right?

00:41:23 ◼   ► Maybe there would be a slight price drop on that, but mostly what I'm looking for is they

00:41:25 ◼   ► would revise the GPUs to be the newer architecture.

00:41:30 ◼   ► Maybe they would just hold the prices the same and they'd be a little bit better, but

00:41:32 ◼   ► like maybe there's something out for me if I just write off 2014 and say, "In 2015, that's

00:41:38 ◼   ► when I'll get my Mac Pro, and maybe by then in 2015 there's a chance that I'll have Retina

00:41:42 ◼   ► displays, real Retina displays, quad 27-inch."

00:41:44 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:41:45 ◼   ► I haven't made a decision yet, but I'm definitely thinking about, I'm definitely, while I'm

00:41:49 ◼   ► pricing out the Mac Pros, I'm also pricing out an SSD and a new card for my existing

00:41:55 ◼   ► Mac Pro.

00:41:56 ◼   ► if you want to sell your Mac Pro, Marco, you'll give me a sweetheart deal.

00:42:01 ◼   ► I actually was just thinking, how the hell am I going to sell this PCI Express SSD?

00:42:06 ◼   ► Who's going to buy this?

00:42:08 ◼   ► Well, I don't know how good it is. I'll have to look at it.

00:42:11 ◼   ► I would never put that in my machine because it seems finicky and expensive,

00:42:14 ◼   ► and I would rather just have a SATA one or whatever, but I don't know.

00:42:17 ◼   ► It's not finicky. It is expensive.

00:42:20 ◼   ► But I would sell this to you for a good price because I don't want to sell it in public.

00:42:25 ◼   ► in public. I just don't want to deal with it.

00:42:27 ◼   ► I also don't want another cheese grater coming into my house, because this one's

00:42:31 ◼   ► going to go up into the—

00:42:32 ◼   ► I'd just sell you the card if you want.

00:42:34 ◼   ► Ah, yeah. I don't know. See, at that point I would just buy myself an SSD that I could

00:42:39 ◼   ► reuse someplace else. You know, I would buy an actual SATA enclosure.

00:42:43 ◼   ► I don't think he'll mind me saying this. I bought this PCI Express card probably about

00:42:48 ◼   ► eight months ago. It was before WWDC by a good amount. I think it was like in February

00:42:53 ◼   ► something. So I DM'd Jim Dalrymple before buying it, because he and I are friendly,

00:43:01 ◼   ► so I DM'd him and I'm like, "Hey, you don't need to answer this, but do you know whether

00:43:07 ◼   ► the next Mac Pro will still have PCI Express slots?" Because I really wanted to, like,

00:43:12 ◼   ► I was going to buy this thing and I really wanted to reuse it if possible, and I thought

00:43:16 ◼   ► back then, of course it would have PCI Express slots. Why would they remove that from the

00:43:21 ◼   ► Mac Pro. That's why so many people buy the Mac Pro.

00:43:25 ◼   ► It's got PCI Express.

00:43:26 ◼   ► Thanks, yeah.

00:43:27 ◼   ► You were one word off.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Yeah. And Jim usually responds to casual messages, but he doesn't leak his secrets even to friends,

00:43:42 ◼   ► so he just never responded. And I'm like, "Aw." At first I thought, "Oh, well, he's

00:43:49 ◼   ► being coy. He doesn't want to tell me anything about the new Mac Pro. And then it gets announced

00:43:55 ◼   ► and there's no slots. Oh, I should have listened to Jim's non-message more closely.

00:44:01 ◼   ► Yeah, because that's not reusable in anything except for another Mac Pro. So, I don't know.

00:44:05 ◼   ► They do have little enclosures, like basically Thunderbolt enclosures with the PCI Express

00:44:09 ◼   ► slot that I could put this in. So I could do that. But as you said, that's like a lot

00:44:13 ◼   ► of parts though. That's like a lot of things that could flake out. So I'm a little wary

00:44:17 ◼   ► to do that.

00:44:18 ◼   ► It's like $300 for that box, too.

00:44:20 ◼   ► It is, yeah.

00:44:21 ◼   ► It's $300.

00:44:22 ◼   ► So I'm probably just going to try to sell this card.

00:44:25 ◼   ► That's like the rule of cables.

00:44:28 ◼   ► The rule of the Apple Store is nothing less than $30.

00:44:30 ◼   ► The rule of lightning cables used to be.

00:44:34 ◼   ► The rule of Thunderbolt is nothing involving Thunderbolt in any way is less than $200 or

00:44:39 ◼   ► $300.

00:44:40 ◼   ► Aren't the cables still $50?

00:44:42 ◼   ► I'm talking about boxes.

00:44:43 ◼   ► If it's an empty box, there's a Thunderbolt on one end, and then on the other end it has

00:44:47 ◼   ► bunch of other ports. Firewire, USB, all the other things. It's magic that that works,

00:44:51 ◼   ► and it's awesome, but those boxes are always like $200 or $300.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:55 ◼   ► And even an enclosure, if you want to get a drive enclosure, the drive is $80 worth

00:45:00 ◼   ► of the price of this $280 thing.

00:45:03 ◼   ► I also just hate enclosures. I would much rather have everything in the Synology NAS

00:45:07 ◼   ► in my closet and have my desk have only the Mac Pro and nothing hanging off of it except

00:45:11 ◼   ► a monitor. Just no random enclosures on my desk all over the place.

00:45:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I use them for OS X reviews, and that's what I'm thinking of next year. What am I

00:45:20 ◼   ► going to do with OS X? If I get a new Mac Pro, I need some alternate boot disks to boot

00:45:25 ◼   ► off of the new operating system, and you can't really boot off of a NAS, so I'm going to

00:45:29 ◼   ► play that with some of the other things.

00:45:30 ◼   ► You just use USB 3. I mean, USB 3 is this awesome, fast thing that us Mac Pro owners

00:45:34 ◼   ► have never realized existed.

00:45:36 ◼   ► But I feel like that's kind of... I do have a bus-powered USB 3 terabyte drive that's

00:45:41 ◼   ► black in fact, and I was like, "Boy, that'll look great attached to my Mac Pro," but it's

00:45:46 ◼   ► It's kind of not fair to boot the OS off a really slow, like 5400 RPM, 2.5 inch.

00:45:54 ◼   ► It just doesn't seem right to me.

00:45:55 ◼   ► I want to have a reasonable experience testing a new OS and not handicap it in that way.

00:46:01 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:46:03 ◼   ► I'm conflicted.

00:46:05 ◼   ► The best part of being cheap and not having the ridiculous needs and/or lack of self-control

00:46:12 ◼   ► that you two have is that I have none of this stress right now. I'm perfectly happy and

00:46:18 ◼   ► that has nothing to do with anything I've put in my body today. I'm perfectly happy

00:46:24 ◼   ► with my old non-retina MacBook Pros and I am content with that.

00:46:29 ◼   ► Well, you shouldn't be.

00:46:32 ◼   ► But I am. But I am.

00:46:34 ◼   ► We are also sponsored this week by our friends once again at Hover. Hover is high quality,

00:46:39 ◼   ► hassle domain name registration. Go to hover.com/ATP or you can use promo code ATP for 10% off

00:46:47 ◼   ► anything you buy there, whether it's new, add-ons, anything. Promo code ATP at Hover.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Hover takes all the hassle and friction out of owning and managing domain names. They

00:46:56 ◼   ► offer smart, easy to use, and powerful management tools. They believe that everyone should be

00:47:01 ◼   ► able to take control of their online identities with their own domain names and Hover will

00:47:05 ◼   ► make it very easy for you to do so. They're part of Two Cows, a company that's been around

00:47:09 ◼   ► since 1994. They're one of the largest domain name registrars in the world today. So they

00:47:14 ◼   ► offer tons of TLDs. They have .net, .co, of course they have .com, if you can find a good

00:47:20 ◼   ► one. They have .tv, all sorts of country codes. They recently added .io, and they're always

00:47:26 ◼   ► adding more TLDs. Chances are, whatever TLD you're looking for, they probably have it.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Hover also does not believe in heavy-handed upselling or aggressive cross-selling. They

00:47:34 ◼   ► don't believe in hiding functionality, requiring extra payment for things that really should

00:47:38 ◼   ► be included for free with domain name management such as who is privacy and subdomains and

00:47:42 ◼   ► things like URL forwarding. They have email service if you want. It's easy and affordable

00:47:47 ◼   ► to create a memorable email address. They have Google Apps for Business, also very easy

00:47:51 ◼   ► and affordable. And I've been saying easy a lot because all their stuff really is very

00:47:56 ◼   ► easy but if you need support for any reason at all, they have tons of online help, documentation,

00:48:02 ◼   ► tutorials covering everything from moving domain names to hover or setting up redirects,

00:48:07 ◼   ► setting up forwards, changing DNS,

00:48:09 ◼   ► they have all these things in tutorials, much, much more.

00:48:13 ◼   ► They also, though, offer this no hold, no wait,

00:48:16 ◼   ► and no transfer telephone support policy.

00:48:18 ◼   ► You can call 1-866-731-6556 Monday through Friday,

00:48:23 ◼   ► 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Eastern, and a live human being

00:48:27 ◼   ► will pick up the phone who is empowered

00:48:29 ◼   ► and eager to help you.

00:48:31 ◼   ► That is incredibly unusual.

00:48:32 ◼   ► It's not like if you transferred to a million people,

00:48:35 ◼   ► not like that, you don't have to wait on hold forever,

00:48:37 ◼   ► You don't have to go through a touch tone menu,

00:48:40 ◼   ► or god, one of those awful speech recognition menus.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Oh, those are the worst.

00:48:44 ◼   ► None of that.

00:48:45 ◼   ► You just call their number, and they pick up the phone,

00:48:47 ◼   ► ready to help you.

00:48:48 ◼   ► It's fantastic.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Go to hover.com/atp.

00:48:52 ◼   ► High quality, no hassle domain name registration.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Once again, use promo code ATP for 10% off.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Hover for sponsoring once again.

00:49:00 ◼   ► - Got a few more things to say about Mac Pro value.

00:49:03 ◼   ► - Oh my god, are we not done yet?

00:49:04 ◼   ► - Keeping me up at night.

00:49:06 ◼   ► No, we're not done yet, because I'm going to be thinking about this for the next year,

00:49:09 ◼   ► so you're just going to have to deal with it.

00:49:10 ◼   ► But I don't want to think about it.

00:49:13 ◼   ► For whatever it's worth, I actually just found and pulled up my original 2008 Mac Pro order

00:49:19 ◼   ► receipt, because it feels like the Mac Pro has gotten more and more expensive in each

00:49:23 ◼   ► generation to get mid-range specs.

00:49:29 ◼   ► There was a dip, I bet, if you graph it, because I remember when there was a one in front of

00:49:32 ◼   ► the Mac Pro named for a little while there.

00:49:34 ◼   ► The 2008 was the second generation one.

00:49:36 ◼   ► The first generation one from 2006, that one,

00:49:39 ◼   ► you could get a single CPU, I believe dual core model.

00:49:44 ◼   ► It was either two or four cores on one.

00:49:45 ◼   ► I think it was two cores on one chip.

00:49:46 ◼   ► You can get a single CPU model of that

00:49:49 ◼   ► for I believe 16 or 1800, something like that.

00:49:53 ◼   ► But so mine, when I got mine, I remember being upset

00:49:57 ◼   ► that the price had gone up.

00:49:58 ◼   ► And I paid $3,050.

00:50:02 ◼   ► The extra 50 was for WiFi, which was optional.

00:50:05 ◼   ► So it was $3,000 for the dual 2.8 gigahertz quad core chips.

00:50:10 ◼   ► So eight cores total across two sockets.

00:50:16 ◼   ► So you had all, I believe eight RAM slots across them.

00:50:21 ◼   ► You had all this RAM capacity, dual core,

00:50:24 ◼   ► dual sockets, everything else.

00:50:26 ◼   ► 3,000 bucks for that.

00:50:27 ◼   ► At the time, that was the second lowest CPU option.

00:50:33 ◼   ► There was the 3.0 and 3.2 gigahertz,

00:50:37 ◼   ► but it's same number of cores.

00:50:38 ◼   ► So they were very close CPU options.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Between the three, there was one

00:50:43 ◼   ► that was only a single socket, that sucked.

00:50:45 ◼   ► But there was like three up top that were pretty good.

00:50:48 ◼   ► So that was like, that was 3,000 bucks.

00:50:51 ◼   ► - That's the computer I'm sitting in front of right now.

00:50:53 ◼   ► Dual 2.8, eight RAM slots, 2008 Mac Pro.

00:50:56 ◼   ► - Right, at the time, that seemed like a lot of money.

00:50:59 ◼   ► But looking back on it, now that we see modern

00:51:02 ◼   ► Mac Pro pricing, that was actually a pretty good deal. But most of the fault of this,

00:51:08 ◼   ► I think, actually lies with Intel. Intel has been raising their Xeon prices like crazy.

00:51:14 ◼   ► I believe it was the 2009 era Mac Pro, the first Nehalem generation, however that's

00:51:20 ◼   ► pronounced, I know that's wrong. That's when Intel jacked the prices way up and it

00:51:26 ◼   ► became insane to get dual sockets.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I have a single socket one of those that work, and I think that one still

00:51:32 ◼   ► was under $2,000, because the cheap one has always been like the single socket or whatever.

00:51:37 ◼   ► I've got the single socket stupid one with four RAM slots and triple channel memory,

00:51:40 ◼   ► but it had a one in front of its price. I forget what it was. It was $1,600 or $1,700.

00:51:45 ◼   ► It was really cheap.

00:51:46 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that's not the case. I mean, I'll have to double check. When we got our

00:51:49 ◼   ► 2008s, the cheapest one, I believe, was $2,700, or maybe $2,500. That was for the single socket

00:51:56 ◼   ► one.

00:51:57 ◼   ► about for value for the new Mac Pros is value for me, not value as in like is this a good

00:52:02 ◼   ► product or whatever, because the people who need this know that they need it, right?

00:52:05 ◼   ► For me, for the purposes that I'm going to use, this machine is not made for me. I'm trying to

00:52:09 ◼   ► find if it's useful for me or more useful. And the tests that I want Mac World to run and everything

00:52:14 ◼   ► are questions like, are there existing Macs that you can buy now that are faster at single CPU

00:52:21 ◼   ► task. And I think from their measurements that the top-end iMac is faster in single CPU than

00:52:28 ◼   ► any Mac Pro you can buy. I believe that's correct. I believe it's something like 5%

00:52:32 ◼   ► faster on the single CPU benchmark. Yeah, I mean, the tests, they give a number because they have

00:52:37 ◼   ► to give a number. And that's not really representative of anything because if you

00:52:40 ◼   ► ran some test that blew through the L3 cache on the iMac's thing, then it would totally

00:52:49 ◼   ► tank on the iMac and the Mac Pro would destroy it. But it depends on what you're doing. You can't

00:52:53 ◼   ► just pick some numbers. It's not like the CPUs are represented by this thing. It depends on the

00:52:57 ◼   ► very specific task. But it is possible that there are workloads for which the top-end iMac is faster

00:53:03 ◼   ► at single-threaded tasks. The next question is, are there non-Mac Pro Macs that can run,

00:53:12 ◼   ► pick a modern 3D game at higher frame rates at the same settings and resolutions

00:53:17 ◼   ► Any of the Mac pros? I don't know if that's the case yet, but I could imagine that no

00:53:22 ◼   ► I don't know. It seems like it should never be the case. It's the the best GPU and the IMAX is like a

00:53:27 ◼   ► 780 M or something. It's a mobile part, right? It's not even a desktop part and

00:53:32 ◼   ► Surely even the crappiest GPU in the Mac Pro should be able to crush it

00:53:38 ◼   ► but I don't know until we see results but

00:53:39 ◼   ► All these questions lead me to say like if you're gonna buy this machine to have a fast quiet desktop machine

00:53:45 ◼   ► It's not gonna be retina. So like you can't hold that over the iMac or anything

00:53:49 ◼   ► The iMac comes with the big monitor already built in which you would like to buy to replace the small monitor here

00:53:54 ◼   ► What is it that you're spending all this money for if you're not going to get better performance?

00:53:59 ◼   ► Like should you just get an iMac with a 27 inch display top of the top top line?

00:54:03 ◼   ► Because you're not gonna get like hard drive bays or anything that used to get with the Mac Pro that probably appealed to you

00:54:08 ◼   ► right exactly and you know and I

00:54:11 ◼   ► I mean, in both cases I'd be giving, I think that, is there still a Firewire 800 on the

00:54:17 ◼   ► iMac?

00:54:18 ◼   ► I don't remember anymore.

00:54:19 ◼   ► Oh, good question.

00:54:20 ◼   ► I doubt it, but.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Yeah, but anyway, like it's, for value for me, I have to think about that because it's

00:54:25 ◼   ► so much cheaper to get a top-end iMac.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Like it's just incredibly cheaper to get a top-end iMac.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Or like I said, what if I just get a new GPU and a new SSD for my existing Mac Pro and

00:54:36 ◼   ► just wait?

00:54:37 ◼   ► Not that I'm never, not that I'm leaving the Mac Pro and I'm never going to get another

00:54:40 ◼   ► I will buy one eventually, I think, but it just has to be a clean win. Or it has to be Retina.

00:54:45 ◼   ► And Retina, forget it, doesn't seem like it's happening maybe next year. And it doesn't seem

00:54:50 ◼   ► like the Mac Pros, aside from being super sexy and awesome and quiet, which all appeal to me,

00:54:55 ◼   ► is a clean win in terms of value for what I want to do with the machine. And that's what's killing

00:54:59 ◼   ► me. In my case for a true Mac Pro successor, I think this is it, but aimed at a different realm

00:55:08 ◼   ► than where I am.

00:55:10 ◼   ► It's aimed at people who need all the power that's in there, and I would be buying it

00:55:13 ◼   ► and not using an entire one of these super expensive GPUs, and not using most of the

00:55:18 ◼   ► cores.

00:55:19 ◼   ► It's like trying to make the best, fastest, most awesome computer, of which I'm using

00:55:25 ◼   ► a tiny isolated corner.

00:55:27 ◼   ► I'm not using the whole machine, and so few people will be using the whole machine, so

00:55:31 ◼   ► it's kind of wasted on me.

00:55:32 ◼   ► That's kind of disappointing.

00:55:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, given your priorities, especially in regards to gaming performance, I really

00:55:39 ◼   ► do think that an iMac is probably--an iMac in particular, having an iMac and upgrading

00:55:45 ◼   ► it more frequently.

00:55:48 ◼   ► Maybe you have an iMac and you update it every two years.

00:55:50 ◼   ► I think that would serve you better than trying to hold onto a Mac Pro for five years and

00:55:55 ◼   ► trying to get modern gaming performance out of it.

00:55:57 ◼   ► But the thing is, there's no way that the GPU in iMac should, hardware-wise, come anywhere

00:56:04 ◼   ► close to the gaming performance of the Mac Pro.

00:56:06 ◼   ► It's all going to come down to drivers, I think.

00:56:09 ◼   ► Because it's just the number of execution units and parallel processors in that GPU,

00:56:15 ◼   ► and any of the GPUs, even the low-end one, surely has to completely dwarf the amount

00:56:20 ◼   ► of execution hardware that's in the stupid mobile GPU that's in the iMac.

00:56:25 ◼   ► The question for GPU performance, okay, well, so it should crush, by all accounts, based

00:56:30 ◼   ► on the hardware, any iMac, but it will not crush, probably, a real gaming GPU card in

00:56:35 ◼   ► my current Mac Pro, if such a thing even exists for me to buy, because there's plenty of gaming

00:56:40 ◼   ► GPUs that have more execution hardware than the low-end and maybe even than the medium-end

00:56:44 ◼   ► GPUs in the Mac Pro.

00:56:47 ◼   ► They don't have as much VRAM, and they don't have all those other, you know, fancy things

00:56:50 ◼   ► for the drivers for like Maya and stuff like that, but I don't need those things.

00:56:54 ◼   ► If I just want gaming performance, a gaming video card is a way better deal than those

00:56:58 ◼   ► super expensive 2 GPUs, of which I'm not going to use one at all.

00:57:02 ◼   ► All right, serious question.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Why don't you just build a gaming PC for like $1200?

00:57:08 ◼   ► Because PCs are disgusting.

00:57:09 ◼   ► How can you build a gaming PC?

00:57:11 ◼   ► I don't want to deal with that.

00:57:12 ◼   ► I don't want to build anything.

00:57:13 ◼   ► I don't want to have an ugly, noisy box in my house.

00:57:15 ◼   ► I don't want to have two computers.

00:57:17 ◼   ► I don't want to have a KVM switching PC.

00:57:18 ◼   ► I just don't.

00:57:19 ◼   ► I do not want a gaming PC.

00:57:22 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is, my current Mac Pro is the culmination of the dream.

00:57:25 ◼   ► I've got a GUI, I've got Unix.

00:57:27 ◼   ► I can run Windows, I can run Mac, both natively.

00:57:31 ◼   ► It's every computer I've ever wanted all in one.

00:57:33 ◼   ► It's just, you know, five years old or whatever now.

00:57:35 ◼   ► It just seems like you're jumping through a lot of hoops, and in particular you're taking

00:57:39 ◼   ► on a lot of costs that you otherwise probably wouldn't need at all, simply to avoid having

00:57:46 ◼   ► a $1200 gaming PC under your desk that you switch between.

00:57:48 ◼   ► it would be more than twelve hundred dollars if i got a good gaming pc but like

00:57:52 ◼   ► i don't think you realize how cheap pc components are

00:57:55 ◼   ► if i'm going to build a gaming pc i would get like the eight hundred dollar

00:57:58 ◼   ► video card so like right there

00:58:00 ◼   ► you know and those eight hundred dollar video cards are noisy and the power supplies you need to run

00:58:04 ◼   ► them have big noisy fans and it would just be it would be a gigantic noisy hot vacuum

00:58:08 ◼   ► cleaner

00:58:10 ◼   ► or i'd have to go like alienware where they build it for you and they just charge it on top

00:58:13 ◼   ► and then you're already up into three grand for one of those things and they're disgusting looking

00:58:16 ◼   ► I do not want a gaming PC. What I want basically is exactly what that little Mac Pro is, but

00:58:21 ◼   ► attached to a quad retina screen and with even better GPUs that all whose performance

00:58:28 ◼   ► is leveled exactly at gaming. The drivers are tweaked to make that happen. I have to

00:58:33 ◼   ► wait for the benchmarks really because it could be that that hardware is totally squandered

00:58:37 ◼   ► in games because of the drivers or it could be that it is reasonable and it performs the

00:58:42 ◼   ► way you think it should. But even then, I would pick the D700 video card because I know

00:58:49 ◼   ► that the top-end gaming cards have that many execution units or more. So to just be in

00:58:54 ◼   ► that realm, I have to pick that hardware, even though no game is going to use 12GB of

00:58:58 ◼   ► VRAM. I just have to buy that because it comes with it.

00:59:01 ◼   ► How much internal flash storage would you go with?

00:59:03 ◼   ► I would pick terabyte. I mean, I would have to because even if I was going to buy an SSD

00:59:10 ◼   ► for this thing, I would pick something close to a terabyte, just because that's not that

00:59:13 ◼   ► expensive. That's not the big cost thing. And I want to just be able to fill all my

00:59:17 ◼   ► stuff, and I want it to be on the super fast PCI Express SSD. Like, that's part of the

00:59:21 ◼   ► experience of having that machine. That's something that even the top-end iMac has a

00:59:25 ◼   ► PCI Express SSD, probably not as fast as the ones that are in the Mac Pro, but...

00:59:29 ◼   ► I would bet it's the same part, actually. I don't know about that, but we'll see.

00:59:33 ◼   ► They did a brief testing at Macworld of the SSD, and they came up with some number, and they seemed

00:59:38 ◼   ► seem to be impressed by it, so I'm assuming that number is faster than what they got from

00:59:41 ◼   ► the SSD built into the top end iMac.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Yeah, it was just under a gigabyte per second read and write, which was pretty awesome.

00:59:48 ◼   ► So I just did some quick price-outs here.

00:59:51 ◼   ► So for you to have a top-end iMac, 16 gigs of RAM, how's that?

00:59:54 ◼   ► Good for you?

00:59:55 ◼   ► 16 gigs of RAM?

00:59:56 ◼   ► What is this, 2007?

00:59:57 ◼   ► All right.

00:59:58 ◼   ► All right, let me bump him up.

01:00:00 ◼   ► 32, 32.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:02 ◼   ► This is the thing.

01:00:03 ◼   ► I could save money by—well, no, I couldn't save money, because don't they put the 16

01:00:07 ◼   ► all the slots. I was going to say I could go from 16 to 32 by buying third-party RAM

01:00:12 ◼   ► because you can actually replace that on those little pop-out things. That's not going to...

01:00:15 ◼   ► Yeah, but you're going to have to pop them all out and replace them all. So just getting

01:00:21 ◼   ► everything from Apple. For an iMac configured the way you would want it, you're looking

01:00:25 ◼   ► at just under $4,000, $3949. And then a Mac Pro, I put in the 6-core because friends don't

01:00:31 ◼   ► Don't Let Friends by the 4 core, and it's 5800.

01:00:34 ◼   ► So you're looking at about almost $2,000 difference

01:00:39 ◼   ► to get the Mac Pro.

01:00:40 ◼   ► - Plus no monitor.

01:00:41 ◼   ► - So I don't, I'm having a hard time

01:00:42 ◼   ► just to find the Mac Pro for you.

01:00:44 ◼   ► And that's, I would happily justify this

01:00:46 ◼   ► for anybody who wants me to,

01:00:47 ◼   ► but for your expressed needs of, and priorities

01:00:52 ◼   ► of wanting a really great gaming computer for home,

01:00:55 ◼   ► but otherwise, like, besides gaming,

01:00:58 ◼   ► what are you mainly doing on this computer

01:01:00 ◼   ► really stressing it. Like what are your highest needs tasks?

01:01:03 ◼   ► There's a reason I said 32 gigs of RAM is because like if I was, I can go to activity

01:01:08 ◼   ► monitor now, I'm probably using all my RAM. I'm always running out of RAM. I have 16 on

01:01:13 ◼   ► this. And I guess the memory compression in Mavericks does help, but let's see what we've

01:01:18 ◼   ► got on memory. Is Perl that needy?

01:01:21 ◼   ► Yeah, well, you know, it's duct typing, right? All that RAM for duct typing?

01:01:25 ◼   ► No, no, no.

01:01:26 ◼   ► Memory use, 15.4 gigabytes out of 16, but I quit a bunch of apps before I do a podcast

01:01:32 ◼   ► just for safety's sake.

01:01:34 ◼   ► But I mean, and...

01:01:35 ◼   ► I mean, granted, Perl is ancient and old and boring and silly.

01:01:39 ◼   ► Good thing none of us are ancient.

01:01:42 ◼   ► Or boring or old.

01:01:43 ◼   ► Yeah, no, like the SSD is like having a Mac Pro at work with an SSD and one at home without.

01:01:48 ◼   ► SSD is a big part of improving my computing experience.

01:01:53 ◼   ► And the other part is whenever I fire up Steam to play a game or something, my GPU is just

01:01:57 ◼   ► not cutting it, and people in the chat room are taunting me by saying their two and a

01:02:00 ◼   ► half year old iMac beats my current Mac.

01:02:04 ◼   ► The 8800 still holds its own, still does things that a really crappy iMac GPU can't, but the

01:02:10 ◼   ► top end iMac GPUs are getting better.

01:02:13 ◼   ► But I'm not looking for, oh, just get something that can run modern games.

01:02:16 ◼   ► I'm looking for headroom.

01:02:17 ◼   ► If I'm going to spend all this money, I want something that has the power to last me as

01:02:21 ◼   ► as long as this 8800 has lasted me.

01:02:23 ◼   ► - I think you'd be better served either

01:02:26 ◼   ► getting a reasonably spec'd Mac Pro

01:02:28 ◼   ► and getting a gaming PC whenever the Mac Pro

01:02:30 ◼   ► becomes too slow for gaming for you for 1200 bucks,

01:02:33 ◼   ► or just getting a top of the line iMac every two years.

01:02:37 ◼   ► - Or getting a SSD and a new video card for this one.

01:02:40 ◼   ► I have to leave that in the category of things,

01:02:42 ◼   ► or buying some parts of your old Mac Pro from you

01:02:44 ◼   ► and basically doing the same thing.

01:02:46 ◼   ► Or buying your entire Mac Pro from you

01:02:47 ◼   ► if you wanna get rid of the whole thing, who knows.

01:02:49 ◼   ► I do, but I don't know how much it would really help you.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Well, it would be an upgrade.

01:02:53 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's two years newer.

01:02:54 ◼   ► The CPUs are better.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:02:56 ◼   ► But I have to look at it.

01:02:59 ◼   ► That's filling me with a feeling of dread,

01:03:02 ◼   ► like having you examine my Mac for it

01:03:04 ◼   ► to see if it's good enough.

01:03:06 ◼   ► It'll be in better condition than mine, believe me.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Like, I try to take care of it, but as the children become more

01:03:11 ◼   ► mobile and more violent, then things that are on the floor

01:03:16 ◼   ► are in the path of-- you'll see.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to getting it on my desk again.

01:03:21 ◼   ► To try to like, you know, like zip tie all the cables to the desk legs so they can't be pulled much,

01:03:27 ◼   ► and like try to like really clean everything up off the floor.

01:03:30 ◼   ► It'll also really help with dust management in the room. Anyway,

01:03:33 ◼   ► do you want to talk for another two hours about the Mac Pro?

01:03:36 ◼   ► Oh my god, can we please be done?

01:03:39 ◼   ► Who are you?

01:03:40 ◼   ► Oh, seriously. I am so bored right now. It defies description.

01:03:45 ◼   ► Did you watch the videos of the unboxing or the pictures of them unboxing and the videos

01:03:51 ◼   ► of them looking at the Mac Pro and the Mac World site?

01:03:54 ◼   ► Oh hell no.

01:03:55 ◼   ► It's pretty sexy.

01:03:57 ◼   ► Every picture I've seen so far, it's been covered in fingerprints.

01:04:00 ◼   ► Well yeah.

01:04:01 ◼   ► It definitely says something.

01:04:03 ◼   ► But the good thing about it is unlike an iOS device, it's not meant to be picked up when

01:04:06 ◼   ► it's used.

01:04:07 ◼   ► So you can put it in place on your desk, get out your little microfiber cloth, polish it

01:04:11 ◼   ► up, and then just don't touch it again because why do you need to touch it?

01:04:14 ◼   ► I bet the same people who touch monitors, I hate those people, I bet those people will

01:04:19 ◼   ► walk up and be like, "Hey, what kind of computer is that?" and put their finger all over it.

01:04:22 ◼   ► Well, that's why you need to electrify the case.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:04:26 ◼   ► You can get some current running through that, and maybe put some blades on the fan on the

01:04:29 ◼   ► top so they stick, "What's inside here?"

01:04:31 ◼   ► Okay, so I'm going to be an idiot and ask one Mac Pro-related question.

01:04:37 ◼   ► So friend of the show, Jason Snell, dear friend of the show, Jason Snell, has taken a video

01:04:43 ◼   ► and sent it to John of the fan in the Mac Pro.

01:04:47 ◼   ► John, would you like to expound at all upon what that video told you?

01:04:52 ◼   ► Well, so he took the video with his phone or other portable thing, and so you've got

01:04:58 ◼   ► the background noise elimination that all these phones do, but the thing is, he put

01:05:02 ◼   ► the phone inside the top of the Mac Pro, right?

01:05:07 ◼   ► So at that range, it is not canceling out the noise of that fan, because it is like

01:05:12 ◼   ► like, millimeters from the noise of that fan. And he listened to the audio after recording

01:05:18 ◼   ► it and said, "Yeah, that's more or less what it sounds like when I'm putting my ear next

01:05:22 ◼   ► to the thing." And it seems super quiet. You can't tell how much you're going to be able

01:05:27 ◼   ► to hear it from far away, because from far away, you know, again, the noise cancelling

01:05:30 ◼   ► comes in or whatever, but were you to stick your ear up to the thing, it's kind of like

01:05:34 ◼   ► on my television set, where the same guy, the video was taking it from like back on

01:05:38 ◼   ► his couch, it was like, "And you can't hear anything." But of course you can't, because

01:05:40 ◼   ► back by the couch, but when he took the phone all the way around to the back of the thing

01:05:43 ◼   ► and shoved that up against the fans, you could hear what those fans sound like.

01:05:48 ◼   ► And the quality of the sound of the fans is kind of what you're coming with.

01:05:51 ◼   ► So you're like, "Okay, if I can hear it from the couch, what I'm going to hear is a noise

01:05:54 ◼   ► like this."

01:05:55 ◼   ► And it's how high a pitch, is it even, is it uneven, is it whooshy, is it one frequency

01:06:00 ◼   ► or a big mess?

01:06:01 ◼   ► And this was very whispery, whisper quiet, kind of like the asymmetrical fans on the

01:06:09 ◼   ► retina MacBook Pros, when they zoom up they sound more kind of like white noise whooshing

01:06:16 ◼   ► and less like droning or single frequency kind of thing.

01:06:21 ◼   ► So I am completely confident that this new Mac Pro will be way, way quieter than even

01:06:27 ◼   ► my existing Mac Pro.

01:06:28 ◼   ► And this Mac Pro is very quiet compared to my Power Mac G5.

01:06:31 ◼   ► So things are going in the right direction, definitely.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And at this point I totally believe the claim that the thing is as quiet as a Mac Mini.

01:06:38 ◼   ► But if I had a Mac Mini or a new Mac Pro on my desk, I'll be able to hear it.

01:06:42 ◼   ► But it's kind of like my TV.

01:06:43 ◼   ► Is it going to be less noisy than my current computer?

01:06:45 ◼   ► Yes, it definitely is.

01:06:46 ◼   ► And so it's an upgrade, so thumbs up.

01:06:48 ◼   ► Yeah, that's -- a lot of people have said that the old Mac Pro was loud.

01:06:53 ◼   ► And I've never found them to be loud.

01:06:55 ◼   ► I mean, maybe -- like, you know, so I've had two.

01:06:57 ◼   ► I've had the 2008 and the 2010, I guess, even though I bought it in 2012.

01:07:03 ◼   ► But I had those two.

01:07:05 ◼   ► And I've never, like, one of the reasons why I love the Mac Pro so much is that every other

01:07:11 ◼   ► Mac, if you put the CPUs under a full sustained load, like if you're running a hand-breaking

01:07:15 ◼   ► code or something like that, the fan will spin up very audibly, and it's annoying.

01:07:21 ◼   ► And the Mac Pro, even at full CPU load, it's either completely the same as, like, the 2008

01:07:29 ◼   ► that you had and I used to have.

01:07:31 ◼   ► That didn't sound any different under full load to me.

01:07:34 ◼   ► It sounds different when I'm gaming because of the cool- the cooler on the video card

01:07:38 ◼   ► has an unpleasant whine when I get gone in games.

01:07:42 ◼   ► As does the 2010 one, actually.

01:07:45 ◼   ► But um, oh god, GPU fans.

01:07:48 ◼   ► One of the best things about the new Mac Pro is that there is no GPU fan.

01:07:52 ◼   ► There has never been a GPU fan that is not a piece of crap.

01:07:54 ◼   ► I've never, ever even heard of one that was not terrible.

01:07:58 ◼   ► I'm just so excited that this 2008 fan has not died in all the years, because all my

01:08:02 ◼   ► other ones went bad way before this. But that was one of the innovations that Apple talks

01:08:05 ◼   ► about in designing this thing is the realization that there's almost no situation in which

01:08:12 ◼   ► all the hot parts are hot at the same time. So it's wasteful to have separate coolers

01:08:17 ◼   ► on each CPU and on each GPU because you'll never be in a situation where all CPUs and

01:08:22 ◼   ► all GPUs are flat out at the same time, or very rarely will be. And if just one GPU is

01:08:29 ◼   ► hot and the other one isn't. All that noise and energy you're spending trying to cool

01:08:32 ◼   ► the parts that don't need to be cool is just wasted and produces extra noise. Like, the

01:08:35 ◼   ► sum total of your noise is never going to be below a certain level if you have three

01:08:40 ◼   ► fans, one for each CPU or one for the GPU or whatever. So the innovation of the Mac

01:08:44 ◼   ► Pro is, let's make them one entire cooling zone for all of them. One fan for all components,

01:08:52 ◼   ► have them in the central chimney, and then I guess just make sure that that gigantic

01:08:55 ◼   ► cooling fan has the capacity to cool all three if they're cranked up, but when they're not

01:08:59 ◼   ► cranked up, you don't have... your ceiling for noise, or your floor for noise, is much,

01:09:06 ◼   ► much lower because you don't have this minimum amount of noise just to keep the fan spinning

01:09:10 ◼   ► on, you know...

01:09:11 ◼   ► I wonder if they would ever, if they considered it as part of their thing to do kind of like

01:09:14 ◼   ► a stop-start thing, or a cylinder deactivation, or all the other thing that car engines do.

01:09:20 ◼   ► What if we just stop the fans on the other thing?

01:09:21 ◼   ► We'll have three fans, but we'll just stop them when they don't need to be cooled.

01:09:24 ◼   ► But I imagine that was probably not a good idea.

01:09:27 ◼   ► So they went with one gigantic fan on really expensive ball bearings.

01:09:30 ◼   ► And I totally applaud that design as someone who's obsessed with noise.

01:09:33 ◼   ► If you're going to make a pro computer and try to figure out how to make it quiet, I

01:09:36 ◼   ► think this is a very clever and interesting design.

01:09:38 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:09:39 ◼   ► I mean, and that's one of the reasons why I switched to the Mac Pro is because it was

01:09:44 ◼   ► driving me crazy whenever I would try to record a podcast that the fan on my Mac Pro would

01:09:49 ◼   ► spin up and I would hear it.

01:09:51 ◼   ► And like, I'm obsessed with audio quality.

01:09:53 ◼   ► I want our show to sound really good."

01:09:56 ◼   ► And the fact that that was spinning up drove me nuts.

01:09:59 ◼   ► And the Mac Pro has always—this is one of the things that makes it a pro computer—it

01:10:04 ◼   ► has always handled heavy loads gracefully.

01:10:08 ◼   ► The laptops, you can put them under a sustained load, but you're definitely going to hear

01:10:12 ◼   ► it.

01:10:13 ◼   ► They're going to be very, very hot, and you're kind of worried, like, "Am I shortening

01:10:17 ◼   ► the life of something by doing this very often?"

01:10:19 ◼   ► Yeah, that's another reason laptops suck, and that's why Casey needs to get it, because

01:10:23 ◼   ► But they sound awful.

01:10:24 ◼   ► They sound like they're in pain.

01:10:25 ◼   ► Like, I know this because I have an older generation MacBook Air that my wife uses,

01:10:29 ◼   ► and my son plays Minecraft on it all the time.

01:10:32 ◼   ► And it's not a powerful GPU, but Minecraft is not a complicated game.

01:10:35 ◼   ► But he runs Minecraft full screen on a 27-inch display on an old MacBook Air.

01:10:39 ◼   ► And that thing sounds like it's dying for the entire time he's using it.

01:10:42 ◼   ► It sounds like, "Help me!

01:10:44 ◼   ► Save me!"

01:10:45 ◼   ► Just that terrible, like, really urgent whine of that tiny little fan in this tiny little

01:10:50 ◼   ► case and the whole thing's getting hot back there.

01:10:52 ◼   ► like you play that on my Mac Pro, it sounds no different than it does when it's idling

01:10:56 ◼   ► in the Finder, right? As it should, because it's just playing Minecraft. But yeah, it's

01:11:01 ◼   ► torture to take anything powerful and try to shove it into this little tiny, skinny

01:11:05 ◼   ► sliver of a case with a heat pump attached to it and some weird asymmetrical fans trying

01:11:10 ◼   ► to suck air out sideways and blow through these tiny vents. Desktop, it's the way to

01:11:14 ◼   ► go.

01:11:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it handles it so much more gracefully. And it also, you know, even though it's unlikely

01:11:22 ◼   ► to happen at any given moment. The fact is, like laptops and other consumer level stuff,

01:11:29 ◼   ► I've had more kernel panics on laptops than I have on Mac Pros. And I've used laptops

01:11:34 ◼   ► and Mac Pros respectively full time, probably about the same amount in total. So I can safely

01:11:40 ◼   ► say I've experienced way more kernel panics and instability with laptops than I have with

01:11:45 ◼   ► Mac Pros. And there's lots of reasons for that. You know, Xeons and Xeon motherboards

01:11:49 ◼   ► are all made to higher standards, higher tolerance.

01:11:52 ◼   ► This is also just ECC RAM, which, yeah,

01:11:54 ◼   ► the chances are that your RAM is not gonna have an error,

01:11:57 ◼   ► but, or if it does have an error,

01:11:59 ◼   ► it's somewhere you won't notice it,

01:12:01 ◼   ► but you use a computer enough,

01:12:04 ◼   ► and that might happen a couple times a year,

01:12:06 ◼   ► and you might notice that.

01:12:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, ECC RAM is, that's another reason

01:12:10 ◼   ► that I would want to not log in on iMac,

01:12:11 ◼   ► 'cause I don't think they have ECC yet,

01:12:13 ◼   ► 'cause like, you know, ParaNod AM, but HFS+,

01:12:15 ◼   ► ECC RAM is just one extra layer of protection,

01:12:17 ◼   ► because I know there's-- - Yes.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Somebody just completed a bingo board.

01:12:21 ◼   ► There is no safety net down at the bottom for the file system, so at least I can have

01:12:27 ◼   ► a little bit of protection in RAM and hopefully correct some errors there before it gets to

01:12:32 ◼   ► my disk.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's okay.

01:12:34 ◼   ► So get a Mac Pro and either play games at low frame rates and grumble about it.

01:12:39 ◼   ► You are very good at grumbling.

01:12:41 ◼   ► Or just get a gaming PC and grumble about that.

01:12:43 ◼   ► Either way, you're grumbling about something.

01:12:45 ◼   ► Hopefully it won't be at low frame rates.

01:12:46 ◼   ► I'm awaiting the results of the test, and if anyone at Apple wants to send me a Mac

01:12:50 ◼   ► Pro as a reward for keeping the faith all those years and posting a picture of a matte

01:12:55 ◼   ► black sports car and saying that I want the next Mac Pro to look like that.

01:12:58 ◼   ► Well, they got the color right, I guess.

01:13:00 ◼   ► It's not matte, though.

01:13:02 ◼   ► I know.

01:13:03 ◼   ► Well, you know, beggars can't be choosers.

01:13:04 ◼   ► It also doesn't have any internal drives or PCI Express slots, so, you know.

01:13:09 ◼   ► We made it exactly the car you wanted, but there's no seats.

01:13:11 ◼   ► It's really quiet, though.

01:13:13 ◼   ► So, Casey, do you want to talk about anything else?

01:13:16 ◼   ► I would do anything in the world to talk about anything but the Mac Pro.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Are you convinced to buy a desktop now?

01:13:24 ◼   ► Oh my god, I am more convinced than ever that I do not want a desktop because I don't want

01:13:30 ◼   ► to have to worry about all this bullsh*t that you guys are worrying about.

01:13:33 ◼   ► Killing me.

01:13:35 ◼   ► Killing me!

01:13:37 ◼   ► Can we talk about something a little more entertaining, please?

01:13:41 ◼   ► What else is on the list?

01:13:43 ◼   ► Well, there's a lot of things and most of them are boring.

01:13:47 ◼   ► - Ooh, button shapes, that sounds entertaining.

01:13:48 ◼   ► - No, God, no, please no.

01:13:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:13:51 ◼   ► Please, please no.

01:13:53 ◼   ► Can we whine about some stuff that's not Mac Pro related?

01:13:58 ◼   ► So I would either like, I will leave it to John.

01:14:02 ◼   ► I would either like to whine about Outlook 2011

01:14:07 ◼   ► or software development methodologies and big business.

01:14:12 ◼   ► So John, take your pick.

01:14:14 ◼   ► - We're not doing software development methodologies now.

01:14:16 ◼   ► We've only got, yeah, we don't have time for that.

01:14:18 ◼   ► So I pick out one. - Well, excuse me.

01:14:19 ◼   ► Marco and I have time for that.

01:14:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, no, because this show should not be that long.

01:14:25 ◼   ► But yes, I have to go at 11 and so we don't have time.

01:14:27 ◼   ► But that's gonna be like a whole show's worth of stuff,

01:14:29 ◼   ► even though I have, like I said,

01:14:30 ◼   ► I'm not preparing at all for methodologies,

01:14:32 ◼   ► but I feel confident that Casey and I alone

01:14:34 ◼   ► can complain about that for a long time.

01:14:37 ◼   ► - As much as I wanna yell at you, it's very true.

01:14:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I put Outlook 2011 in there,

01:14:41 ◼   ► But if you have some Outlook 2011 things that you'd like to share, feel free.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Take it away.

01:14:45 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:14:46 ◼   ► So I don't have anything hyper specific to share.

01:14:52 ◼   ► However, I will say that Outlook 2011, as with all of Office 2011, is a steaming pile

01:14:58 ◼   ► of horse manure.

01:15:00 ◼   ► And I cannot fathom having to use Outlook or the rest of Office on a Mac full-time.

01:15:09 ◼   ► I do so as little as possible and even that is too much because Microsoft does not take

01:15:17 ◼   ► Office for the Mac seriously.

01:15:20 ◼   ► None of it seems native.

01:15:21 ◼   ► None of it makes sense.

01:15:23 ◼   ► None of it really fits in with anything else on the platform.

01:15:28 ◼   ► Software update happens constantly.

01:15:30 ◼   ► It's obnoxious.

01:15:31 ◼   ► It gets in the way.

01:15:32 ◼   ► It makes you stop everything.

01:15:35 ◼   ► Microsoft software update makes you stop Safari.

01:15:38 ◼   ► I don't even understand why they're related except maybe Silverlight, which is dead.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Yeah, it's okay.

01:15:46 ◼   ► My favorite thing about Office 2011 is the little—Casey knows this, whatever it is—the

01:15:51 ◼   ► little yellow thing that comes up in the corner to tell you, like, you know, calendar notifications,

01:15:56 ◼   ► like "Oh, you've got this meeting in ten minutes."

01:15:58 ◼   ► You know the thing I'm talking about, Casey?

01:16:00 ◼   ► No, because I probably turned it off because it's terrible.

01:16:03 ◼   ► I like being reminded when I have a meeting, like I'll be there at work and the little

01:16:07 ◼   ► yellow thing will pop up and say you've got a meeting in 15 minutes and it's got a little

01:16:10 ◼   ► snooze button and a dismiss button and they stack up inside there.

01:16:13 ◼   ► It's not that interface that I mind.

01:16:15 ◼   ► It's the thing that runs that little yellow window that pops up is this application that

01:16:19 ◼   ► has an alarm clock icon.

01:16:21 ◼   ► It's like a blue old-fashioned alarm clock with bells on it.

01:16:23 ◼   ► It's actually a pretty nice icon.

01:16:25 ◼   ► The thing that drives me nuts about that particular feature is that on my Mac at home that does

01:16:30 ◼   ► not have an SSD, when I wake it from sleep, usually it'll be like, "Oh, while I was sleeping,

01:16:37 ◼   ► these events happen that it wants to tell you about the events that you either missed

01:16:39 ◼   ► or that are upcoming or whatever.

01:16:41 ◼   ► And so the little alarm clock guy will appear in my dock and start bouncing.

01:16:47 ◼   ► And at one time I tried counting the bounces.

01:16:49 ◼   ► You may not know this, but OS X has for many years and continues to have, it's either OS

01:16:54 ◼   ► X or the app, but I think it's the OS, has a limit on the number of times it will allow

01:16:57 ◼   ► any icon to bounce in the dock.

01:16:59 ◼   ► And after a certain point it just stops bouncing, it gives up.

01:17:02 ◼   ► I have seen the icon give up bouncing because it will grind away at my crappy spinning disk

01:17:07 ◼   ► and just bounce there forever.

01:17:09 ◼   ► Just bounce.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Bounce below.

01:17:11 ◼   ► I think I counted to 75 or 100 or something at one point and then I just stopped counting.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Eventually it will stop bouncing.

01:17:17 ◼   ► I don't know what it's doing during this time.

01:17:19 ◼   ► I think I've looked at FSU usage a few times and seen some random like Microsoft database

01:17:23 ◼   ► stuff that it's doing in the background or something.

01:17:26 ◼   ► The result of it bouncing there for like two minutes, three minutes, five minutes, God

01:17:31 ◼   ► God knows how long, is to bring up a tiny yellow window that says, "Here are your two

01:17:35 ◼   ► meetings that you missed or they're coming 15 minutes from now."

01:17:40 ◼   ► That is an inappropriate amount of disk activity and waiting time to bring up a little window

01:17:44 ◼   ► that tells me which meetings I missed.

01:17:46 ◼   ► So God knows what it's doing, but it's doing something terrible.

01:17:49 ◼   ► But that's not why I put this in the notes.

01:17:51 ◼   ► That's the thing that drives me nuts the most when I wake my Mac Pro at home and see it

01:17:54 ◼   ► grind away.

01:17:55 ◼   ► I mean, maybe it's blocking on some network call.

01:17:57 ◼   ► I don't know what it's doing.

01:17:58 ◼   ► No.

01:17:59 ◼   ► No.

01:18:00 ◼   ► It grinds the hell out of my disk to bring it in.

01:18:01 ◼   ► I'm surprised that people who don't have SSDs have not noticed that and not filed bugs against

01:18:06 ◼   ► it.

01:18:07 ◼   ► But the reason I put this in here, my biggest peeve about Outlook 2010, which I use for

01:18:12 ◼   ► work, because I have to, because there are things that Apple Mail has not done successfully

01:18:18 ◼   ► with my Exchange server at work.

01:18:20 ◼   ► Maybe the new version of Apple Mail does, but I'm always afraid to go back to it.

01:18:22 ◼   ► Because talking about flaky mail programs, in my experience, Apple Mail has been worse

01:18:25 ◼   ► than Outlook.

01:18:26 ◼   ► face better potential features but worse reliability, especially with Microsoft stuff.

01:18:31 ◼   ► But the reason I put it in there is that Alex 2010 has, since it's the dawn of the software,

01:18:36 ◼   ► and continues to this day after many, many updates, to have one of probably the most

01:18:41 ◼   ► user-hostile small feature.

01:18:44 ◼   ► Like it's something like, "Oh, that's not a big deal.

01:18:46 ◼   ► That shouldn't be bothering me.

01:18:47 ◼   ► It's not like deleting your data or whatever."

01:18:48 ◼   ► So you say user-hostile, like is it throwing ads in your face?

01:18:52 ◼   ► Is it deleting stuff?

01:18:53 ◼   ► Is it corrupting your data?

01:18:54 ◼   ► Is it crashing?

01:18:55 ◼   ► all user hostile, yes, but they're so over the top that everyone can agree on.

01:18:59 ◼   ► This is the type of thing that, when I describe it, it's not going to sound like a big deal

01:19:03 ◼   ► until you've lived with it for, I guess, two years now, or whenever Outlook 2011 came out,

01:19:07 ◼   ► I don't remember if it came out in 2011 or not.

01:19:11 ◼   ► Selection and validation.

01:19:13 ◼   ► What I do with my mailboxes a lot of the time is select groups of messages, either by doing

01:19:17 ◼   ► select all, by clicking one and holding down shift and clicking one lower down, or by dragging

01:19:22 ◼   ► them, all the different ways you can select groups of messages.

01:19:24 ◼   ► I'm going to do something with them.

01:19:25 ◼   ► I'm going to mark them as red.

01:19:26 ◼   ► I'm going to drag them all into another folder.

01:19:27 ◼   ► I'm going to do something with them."

01:19:29 ◼   ► Multiple selections, right?

01:19:31 ◼   ► Very often it's "Select All" and then "Mark as Red" because you get a lot of email at

01:19:35 ◼   ► work for mailing lists and they go all into a folder and sometimes you just want to mark

01:19:38 ◼   ► certain sections of them red or whatever.

01:19:40 ◼   ► Selecting any message in the message list in Outlook 2011 is just merely a suggestion

01:19:47 ◼   ► to the program.

01:19:48 ◼   ► You can select them with your mouse.

01:19:51 ◼   ► Immediately your selection is removed.

01:19:53 ◼   ► You can hit Command-A to select all.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Immediately your selection is entirely invalid.

01:19:56 ◼   ► And what I mean is when it's removed is you did Command-A, they all highlighted.

01:20:01 ◼   ► A millisecond later, they all unhighlighted.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Why does it do that?

01:20:04 ◼   ► Because it hates you with the fiery passion.

01:20:06 ◼   ► I don't know why it does it.

01:20:08 ◼   ► Sometimes it's like a smart folder, like I'll click on my unread smart folder to show me

01:20:11 ◼   ► all unread messages.

01:20:13 ◼   ► When you hit Command-A, it will select all the ones that are currently there, but then

01:20:17 ◼   ► the smart folder will grind along a little bit and say, "Oh, I found two new messages

01:20:20 ◼   ► that are also unread."

01:20:21 ◼   ► it will invalidate your entire selection.

01:20:23 ◼   ► And so you just have to wait there

01:20:24 ◼   ► until the number stops going up.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Have you found all the unread messages in that?

01:20:27 ◼   ► Is it safe for me to hit Command + A?

01:20:28 ◼   ► And you never are, you just, you think it's done.

01:20:31 ◼   ► The number goes up to like 27, you hit Command + A.

01:20:33 ◼   ► Oh, no, actually 32, selection invalidated.

01:20:36 ◼   ► Hit Command + A again, you think you're safe,

01:20:37 ◼   ► you go to hit Command + T to mark all the read.

01:20:39 ◼   ► Oh, no, sorry, invalidated, we found one more message.

01:20:42 ◼   ► Even in message lists that are not like that,

01:20:44 ◼   ► that are not part of Smart Folders,

01:20:46 ◼   ► the first time you select one message,

01:20:48 ◼   ► two message, five messages, the first time, forget it.

01:20:51 ◼   ► That's just like a trial run.

01:20:52 ◼   ► Your selection will immediately be gone.

01:20:54 ◼   ► You will never be able to get to a command fast enough

01:20:55 ◼   ► for the selection to be highlighted.

01:20:57 ◼   ► And this is the type of bug when I first saw it,

01:20:59 ◼   ► like, oh, look, silly, a 1.0 bug.

01:21:01 ◼   ► They're surely they'll get rid of this.

01:21:02 ◼   ► But years later, this is still how this program behaves.

01:21:05 ◼   ► It does not care that you selected things.

01:21:07 ◼   ► You wanna select things,

01:21:08 ◼   ► you have to enter a determined battle with the program

01:21:11 ◼   ► to get your selection to stay.

01:21:13 ◼   ► And again, it doesn't sound like it's a big deal,

01:21:15 ◼   ► but I find it incredibly maddening

01:21:18 ◼   ► and I spend a lot of my day just going,

01:21:20 ◼   ► Select unselected. Select unselected. Select unselected. Perform operation. Select unselected.

01:21:24 ◼   ► Select unselected. Select unselected. Perform operation. I don't understand how this program

01:21:29 ◼   ► continues to ship in this form. Like, how can the people at Microsoft use it? How can anybody use it?

01:21:34 ◼   ► I can tell you right now. Why do you use it? Because we have to. Because we have to for work?

01:21:40 ◼   ► You think the people at Microsoft have to for work? If you didn't use it, what would you use instead?

01:21:46 ◼   ► The Gmail web interface? No. Mail. Yes. No. That's what I use. That's what I use for my actual mail.

01:21:52 ◼   ► No, because if you had to connect to Exchange, you would use mail.app.

01:21:57 ◼   ► No, I would forward all my mail to Gmail. Which is?

01:22:00 ◼   ► Against corporate policy, and you can't do that. I mean, I use it. And the thing is,

01:22:05 ◼   ► I liked Entourage, the purple one that came before this yellow pissy one. I liked Entourage.

01:22:11 ◼   ► Mother of God, you're the only person I've ever met that actually liked Entourage.

01:22:14 ◼   ► I like Claris emailer. The Claris emailer guys left, went to Microsoft and made Entourage.

01:22:21 ◼   ► The original classic Mac version of Entourage was really awesome, had great icons from Icon

01:22:25 ◼   ► Factory, it was a great mail program. The OS X version of Entourage, not so great, but

01:22:29 ◼   ► the thing I like about it is I like the integration of my mail application and my calendar into

01:22:33 ◼   ► one thing. Some people hate that and they want it to be separate. I like them to be

01:22:36 ◼   ► combined.

01:22:37 ◼   ► Outlook would not be so terrible if it just worked. Like if it didn't invalidate my selection,

01:22:42 ◼   ► If things worked the way they're supposed to, if the meetings that I accepted in Outlook 2011

01:22:46 ◼   ► stayed accepted and didn't make me re-accept them, that's the other thing that does.

01:22:50 ◼   ► It makes me re-accept meetings hundreds of times,

01:22:52 ◼   ► that was grayed out on my calendar as if I've never accepted them.

01:22:54 ◼   ► Accept them, go to series, accept the series.

01:22:56 ◼   ► Next day, they're all unhighlighted again as if I didn't accept them.

01:22:59 ◼   ► Again, for years of this, it's like, this is all Microsoft,

01:23:03 ◼   ► from the client to the server to everywhere, everything is like modern versions.

01:23:06 ◼   ► It just doesn't work correctly.

01:23:08 ◼   ► And there's still many things that I have to open my Windows VM and go into the "real"

01:23:13 ◼   ► Outlook and do things from there because the Mac version can't do them or does them badly

01:23:18 ◼   ► or wrong or in some strange way.

01:23:19 ◼   ► But the selection and validation is that I'll remember that to the day I died, that once

01:23:24 ◼   ► there was this program that would not respect my ability to select things and it stayed

01:23:29 ◼   ► that way for years and nobody cared.

01:23:31 ◼   ► And maybe it's just me, maybe it's some crazy bug in my computer that's not a problem in

01:23:37 ◼   ► the program, it's some crazy extension that I don't even know I'm running because I'm

01:23:39 ◼   ► not running any extensions at work that I'm aware of.

01:23:45 ◼   ► I can't think of the cause that would cause me to be the only person who has selection

01:23:48 ◼   ► and validation.

01:23:49 ◼   ► Maybe people can write into the show and say, "Yes, Outlook 2011 has been invalidating my

01:23:54 ◼   ► selection for three years as well.

01:23:55 ◼   ► You're not alone."

01:23:57 ◼   ► If nobody writes in like that, then I'll just have to think that there's something crazy

01:24:00 ◼   ► going on in my computer.

01:24:01 ◼   ► But no, it's two computers, my home and work.

01:24:04 ◼   ► So the same thing as infecting my home and work computer, it's got to be the program.

01:24:08 ◼   ► It's got to be Outlook 2011.

01:24:10 ◼   ► Thank you to our two sponsors this week.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Please.

01:24:13 ◼   ► Please.

01:24:14 ◼   ► Wait.

01:24:15 ◼   ► After an hour and a half of you two talking about the Mac Pro, you're not going to give

01:24:21 ◼   ► me more than 15 minutes about stupid Microsoft stuff?

01:24:25 ◼   ► You can have the after show if you want.

01:24:27 ◼   ► Oh my God, I hate you so much.

01:24:30 ◼   ► However, I will say dear dear friend of the show Merlin man has added his commentary

01:24:36 ◼   ► Which I just put into the chat and I'm very happy that he did

01:24:40 ◼   ► I have no idea what it means but candidly

01:24:43 ◼   ► I never know what Merlin's talking about until 20 minutes after he's finished because I'm not as smart as he is

01:24:48 ◼   ► Where did you put it? I don't see this

01:24:50 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to our two sponsors this week

01:24:53 ◼   ► Warby Parker and hover and we will see you next week

01:24:59 ◼   ► And now the snow is falling Their kids are building snowmen

01:25:06 ◼   ► It's accidental (accidental)

01:25:10 ◼   ► Holiday fun time (holiday fun time)

01:25:13 ◼   ► John's gonna make snow angels Marco and Casey are gonna let him

01:25:20 ◼   ► It's accidental (accidental)

01:25:23 ◼   ► Syracuse angels (holiday fun time)

01:25:27 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes deep in Santa's beard

01:25:33 ◼   ► And follow them on Twitter for holiday funtime cheer

01:25:41 ◼   ► E-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:25:46 ◼   ► K-C-L-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-G-M-O-R-M-N-S-I-R-A-C

01:25:58 ◼   ► USA, Syracuse, uh

01:26:01 ◼   ► It's an accidental (accidental)

01:26:05 ◼   ► Snowball fight

01:26:08 ◼   ► ♪ It's an accidental, accidental ♪

01:26:11 ◼   ► ♪ Holiday tech or podcast so long ♪

01:26:16 ◼   ► - Oh, see, he liked Entourage too.

01:26:19 ◼   ► See, Claire's emailer was great.

01:26:21 ◼   ► The first version of Entourage was really great.

01:26:23 ◼   ► The OS X version was less great.

01:26:25 ◼   ► Outlook 2011 needs to die a terrible death.

01:26:28 ◼   ► Or just work, like pick one or the other.

01:26:30 ◼   ► If it started working, suddenly I'd be like,

01:26:33 ◼   ► wow, this program, like, I might like it again or something.

01:26:35 ◼   ► But it doesn't take much to just make it into a device of torture.

01:26:41 ◼   ► But what reason does Microsoft have to improve it?

01:26:43 ◼   ► None!

01:26:44 ◼   ► But here's the thing.

01:26:45 ◼   ► I don't understand how—how does something like that—like, even though this is not

01:26:49 ◼   ► a big problem, it's something that every single person who uses this program has to

01:26:54 ◼   ► be experiencing.

01:26:55 ◼   ► Like, am I the only one this is happening to on my two computers that I ever use it

01:26:58 ◼   ► on?

01:26:59 ◼   ► And so if something like that happens, if you were a developer of this program and you're

01:27:01 ◼   ► forced to run it every day because you write the program, like, you use it for your email

01:27:05 ◼   ► because you work at Microsoft, you have a Mac, you work in the Mac business unit, you

01:27:08 ◼   ► write, you know, you are one of the primary authors of Outlook. How could you tolerate

01:27:12 ◼   ► this bug? You know what it's like when a program that you wrote that you use has a

01:27:15 ◼   ► bug in it. You go fix it like that day, because there's no way that you're going to let

01:27:18 ◼   ► that stand. You wrote the damn program. You know exactly what's going wrong, and you

01:27:22 ◼   ► go fix it. But nope. Years pass, not fixed.

01:27:25 ◼   ► Well, that presumes a culture of value and quality over things like ship dates, and Microsoft

01:27:32 ◼   ► is not even known for that.

01:27:34 ◼   ► They're rushing to meet ship dates. I'm saying like a day to day. It must be annoying these people like a Casey you use it

01:27:39 ◼   ► Do you is this selection and validation thing ever happened to you? Am I allowed to answer truthfully?

01:27:45 ◼   ► Go ahead. I'm I'm ready for the truth. Nope never happens to you, huh? I

01:27:51 ◼   ► Freaking hate outlook. I really hate outlook this selection of valid invalidation thing never happens to me

01:27:59 ◼   ► I should take some movies of it and the most exciting thing about it is the first one the first one never takes right so

01:28:05 ◼   ► you'll switch over to the program and

01:28:07 ◼   ► You'll go and you'll see a bunch of messages

01:28:10 ◼   ► And you just know like I see three messages there

01:28:13 ◼   ► And I want to mark all three of spam or something like that and you just know that

01:28:17 ◼   ► The first you're gonna click one of them. It's gonna highlight. You're gonna shift click down to the next one

01:28:23 ◼   ► It's gonna remove your entire selection that all that action is gonna be wasted, but you go through the motions anyway

01:28:28 ◼   ► And then you do it the second time and it takes and it just becomes this thing that you do. First one, it doesn't count.

01:28:35 ◼   ► All right, so hold on, are we officially in the after show? Oh, yeah.

01:28:39 ◼   ► Why the f*** are you making me listen to an hour and a half of MacPro discussion

01:28:45 ◼   ► and I get 12 minutes of listening to John preach about something that affects me and then you... It doesn't affect you!

01:28:53 ◼   ► It does well in principle it affects me and then Marco decides. Oh the king is fucking bored

01:28:59 ◼   ► So we're gonna end the show that's pretty much it. Yep

01:29:02 ◼   ► I'm so angry the people in the chat room pretty much hit it on the head

01:29:06 ◼   ► We Marco and I have been waiting for a Mac Pro for a long time

01:29:09 ◼   ► It's kind of the genesis of the show was around the time that we got the fake Mac Pro update

01:29:13 ◼   ► It's the reason we have the icon that we discussed at the top of the show

01:29:16 ◼   ► Now the new Mac pros are finally out and we can configure them and Marco bought one surely

01:29:20 ◼   ► that's deserving of an entire show's worth of discussion.

01:29:23 ◼   ► I think that's reasonable.

01:29:24 ◼   ► - I even cut stuff.

01:29:25 ◼   ► I could have gone more on the Mac Pro.

01:29:27 ◼   ► - Oh, God. - I could have too.

01:29:29 ◼   ► - I'm so angry at you two right now.

01:29:31 ◼   ► - I could have gone into Turbo Boost more.

01:29:33 ◼   ► I could have gone into the workstation pricing

01:29:35 ◼   ► from HP and Dell.

01:29:36 ◼   ► - Oh, please. - Yeah, see?

01:29:37 ◼   ► - There's so much more I could have gone into.

01:29:38 ◼   ► - We'll save that for a future show

01:29:39 ◼   ► now that we know how much Casey likes it.

01:29:41 ◼   ► - No, no!

01:29:43 ◼   ► Oh, God, please, no. - If anyone at Apple

01:29:45 ◼   ► wants to send Casey a complimentary Mac Pro

01:29:47 ◼   ► so he can stop- - Oh, God.

01:29:49 ◼   ► I will use it as a trash can.

01:29:51 ◼   ► I looked at the picture that you tweeted of your little setup, Casey.

01:29:54 ◼   ► You've got three glasses of liquid sitting right to the left of your laptop,

01:29:59 ◼   ► which is open with a keyboard in front of it.

01:30:01 ◼   ► No, it is directly to the right of my laptop.

01:30:04 ◼   ► Well, whatever. Yeah, all right.

01:30:06 ◼   ► But the point is, if you were to knock those over,

01:30:08 ◼   ► they would spill directly into the keyboard of your crappy laptop.

01:30:11 ◼   ► You're right, but because I'm not an idiot and I'm also a professional,

01:30:15 ◼   ► I will not knock them over.

01:30:16 ◼   ► Uh-huh, yeah, right.

01:30:18 ◼   ► But that's something a sober person would say.

01:30:20 ◼   ► Oh, son of a...

01:30:21 ◼   ► No, just kidding.

01:30:22 ◼   ► It just seems like an ill-advised arrangement.

01:30:25 ◼   ► Oh, God, I'm so angry at you guys right now.

01:30:28 ◼   ► And you've got the dual monitor problem of like, you are aligned with the space where

01:30:31 ◼   ► there is no monitor, so you're constantly looking to either your right or your left.

01:30:35 ◼   ► Oh, God.

01:30:36 ◼   ► You are so high maintenance.

01:30:37 ◼   ► I cannot believe that any piece of electronics actually fits your ridiculous requirements.

01:30:45 ◼   ► Well, it doesn't.

01:30:46 ◼   ► You just pick whoever's closest.

01:30:49 ◼   ► That I want to have the monitor in front of me?

01:30:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm a crazy person, you're right.

01:30:52 ◼   ► Oh, God.

01:30:53 ◼   ► No, that actually is one of the reasons why I prefer one giant monitor to two smaller

01:30:57 ◼   ► ones is because when you have two smaller ones, I would always just kind of sit in front

01:31:01 ◼   ► of the left one, center myself to the left one, but then the right one's kind of out

01:31:05 ◼   ► there like in New Jersey.

01:31:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:31:07 ◼   ► It's kind of hard to see.

01:31:09 ◼   ► As someone who, as I pointed out before, was using two monitors when you guys were probably

01:31:13 ◼   ► learning to walk, I always had the...

01:31:15 ◼   ► Oh, stop it.

01:31:16 ◼   ► The twin monitor was in front of me and the auxiliary monitor was off to the side.

01:31:20 ◼   ► And it was a clear arrangement because the auxiliary monitor was a black and white 9-inch CRT.

01:31:24 ◼   ► So clearly very auxiliary and the 24-bit color, huge 14-inch Trinitron display was in front of me.

01:31:31 ◼   ► And so it was clear that's the real monitor and that other thing is a place where I might put a pallet once in a while.

01:31:36 ◼   ► Oh god, I'm so angry at you two. Seriously, this is the most boring ATP I've ever been a part of.

01:31:43 ◼   ► I said 12 words during that entire episode.

01:31:47 ◼   ► You could have joined in about what your feelings were on the value proposition of the Mac Pro

01:31:51 ◼   ► for someone who wants to play games.

01:31:52 ◼   ► There's no goddamn way I have any thoughts about the Mac Pro.

01:31:55 ◼   ► Oh, God, it's so boring.

01:31:56 ◼   ► Well, next week we'll talk about software methodologies, and then I will become you,

01:32:00 ◼   ► and you can take over the whole show.

01:32:03 ◼   ► For the love of Christ, I hope so.

01:32:05 ◼   ► Oh, Margo will have things to say about software.

01:32:07 ◼   ► I know you will.

01:32:08 ◼   ► I know it.

01:32:09 ◼   ► Oh, I'm so angry right now.

01:32:11 ◼   ► There are so many bees in my bonnet.

01:32:13 ◼   ► What is the Merlin line?

01:32:15 ◼   ► What is it?

01:32:16 ◼   ► Something about my…

01:32:17 ◼   ► Ah, I can't remember it.

01:32:18 ◼   ► But something about my…

01:32:19 ◼   ► He's all angry.

01:32:20 ◼   ► Ah, he's probably listening right now and I feel like an idiot, but that's all right.

01:32:25 ◼   ► So fired up right now.

01:32:26 ◼   ► I don't even know which expression of his you're thinking of, and I know all of his

01:32:31 ◼   ► expressions, so I think you may have beat your limit.

01:32:35 ◼   ► You may have been over-served tonight, sir.

01:32:38 ◼   ► I still hate all of you.

01:32:41 ◼   ► How did we talk so long about the Mac Pro?

01:32:43 ◼   ► It was so boring.

01:32:45 ◼   ► This is supposed to be our Christmas special,

01:32:47 ◼   ► and it's so boring.

01:32:48 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:32:52 ◼   ► Oh God.

01:32:57 ◼   ► I do like "You Might Need a Drink" as well.

01:33:00 ◼   ► - That is currently the top voted.

01:33:01 ◼   ► - I disapprove of alcohol-related titles.

01:33:04 ◼   ► - Ah, fine.

01:33:05 ◼   ► You might need a Sprite as well.

01:33:07 ◼   ► - No, 'cause then, unless we're being sponsored by Sprite,

01:33:10 ◼   ► And Lex should get on that.

01:33:13 ◼   ► You might need a lemon-lime flavored soft drink as well.

01:33:16 ◼   ► No, because then you give you Sierra Mist, which is not the same.

01:33:19 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:33:20 ◼   ► Have you gotten that one where it's like--

01:33:22 ◼   ► I know the Coke Pepsi people hate it, where you go into a restaurant

01:33:25 ◼   ► and it says you can have a Coke and they say Pepsi OK,

01:33:27 ◼   ► and then you have to kill them, right?

01:33:28 ◼   ► But at least Coke and Pepsi are trying to be like each other.

01:33:32 ◼   ► They are direct competitors.

01:33:33 ◼   ► Pepsi is trying to be like Coke.

01:33:35 ◼   ► They're trying to make the same product.

01:33:37 ◼   ► Sierra Mist is about as much the same product as Sprite as Root Beer is the same product

01:33:42 ◼   ► as Sprite.

01:33:43 ◼   ► Sierra Mist is better.

01:33:44 ◼   ► Sierra Mist is vile donkey piss.

01:33:48 ◼   ► It is not as bad as Mountain Dew, but it's close.

01:33:53 ◼   ► Sean, I love you.

01:33:54 ◼   ► Just like that, you've redeemed all of this.

01:33:56 ◼   ► No, I didn't think anybody in the world actually liked Sierra Mist.

01:33:59 ◼   ► I thought it was just something that they would make people take when you're a restaurant

01:34:03 ◼   ► who belongs to whatever brand.

01:34:05 ◼   ► I think Sprite is Coke and Sierra Miss is Pepsi or whatever.

01:34:07 ◼   ► I don't remember what it is, but I was like, they would force you to take it because you

01:34:10 ◼   ► would be like, okay, you're now a Pepsi restaurant and we force you to take Sierra Miss that

01:34:14 ◼   ► no human would ever willingly order.

01:34:16 ◼   ► And so when I say, can I have a Sprite?

01:34:17 ◼   ► And they say Sierra Miss is okay.

01:34:18 ◼   ► That's worse than if you asked for Coke and I say Pepsi, okay.

01:34:21 ◼   ► No, it's not okay.

01:34:23 ◼   ► Seven Up and Sprite, then okay.

01:34:26 ◼   ► Then I feel like you have a reasonable substitution.

01:34:28 ◼   ► Seven Up versus Sprite is like Pepsi versus Coke.

01:34:31 ◼   ► Like it's a reasonable substitution.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Sierra Miss is not a reasonable substitution for anything.

01:34:34 ◼   ► No, no, no. Stop. Okay, so here's the thing. Pepsi is better than Coke, but Diet Coke...

01:34:40 ◼   ► What? What? What? Pepsi is better than Coke?

01:34:43 ◼   ► Everybody relax. Pepsi is better than Coke. However, Diet Coke is light years ahead of Diet Pepsi.

01:34:50 ◼   ► Pepsi is not better than Coke. Aren't you from the South? What are you talking about?

01:34:54 ◼   ► I'm not from the South! Oh my God, I'm so angry.

01:34:57 ◼   ► You live in Virginia.

01:34:58 ◼   ► I'm not from Virginia. Oh, I'm so angry. I'm so angry right now.

01:35:04 ◼   ► Even Pepsi drinkers don't think that Pepsi is better than Coke. They just say they like it better, but no one seriously believes that Pepsi is better than Coke. I mean, come on.

01:35:11 ◼   ► So angry. So angry.

01:35:13 ◼   ► I hate Mo's soda, and yet I can tell you that Pepsi sucks compared to Coke. Coke is way better.

01:35:17 ◼   ► Seriously, is there anybody in the chat room who believes that Pepsi—not that you like Pepsi better than Coke—but who believes that Pepsi is actually better than Coke?

01:35:25 ◼   ► So angry.

01:35:26 ◼   ► I'm really curious—I bet no one. No one. I mean, this—I've never heard of anybody saying that. And diet, like, why bother?

01:35:33 ◼   ► And diet, yes, is like, which carcinogen do you find the least distasteful?

01:35:39 ◼   ► This is ridiculous.

01:35:40 ◼   ► I mean, diet soda, seriously, no nutritional value, possible cancer-causing, tastes terrible.

01:35:48 ◼   ► Like it is the anti-- it is like, what's the worst thing I can put into my body and not

01:35:53 ◼   ► die immediately?

01:35:55 ◼   ► I mean, diet soda, seriously, like, at the very least, I feel like they should be putting--

01:36:00 ◼   ► I'm going to take out the caffeine.

01:36:02 ◼   ► Like, it has nothing, then.

01:36:03 ◼   ► It's just completely devoid of any possible value.

01:36:05 ◼   ► It is just giving you cancer.

01:36:07 ◼   ► That's all it's doing.

01:36:08 ◼   ► I just like any-- like, all the sugar substitutes,

01:36:11 ◼   ► they all-- like, I can taste them all very clearly.

01:36:13 ◼   ► And they all taste like crap.

01:36:14 ◼   ► Like, it's-- when you--

01:36:16 ◼   ► this is my little side rant where, like, going shopping

01:36:20 ◼   ► and trying to read food labels, like, you

01:36:22 ◼   ► have to read any food label as if a lawyer is reading it.

01:36:28 ◼   ► Like, you have to read it like a lawyer.

01:36:30 ◼   ► Like when they say like, "Oh, this is natural strawberry flavor," if they're like, "Wait

01:36:35 ◼   ► a minute.

01:36:36 ◼   ► What does natural actually mean in the context of food?

01:36:39 ◼   ► And does strawberry flavor really contain any strawberries?

01:36:42 ◼   ► Probably not."

01:36:43 ◼   ► And you have to think like, "What is the most sinister, disgusting explanation that

01:36:49 ◼   ► could fit within the phrasing they've chosen legally?"

01:36:53 ◼   ► And that's probably what it's made from.

01:36:54 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer:** Yep.

01:36:55 ◼   ► Nope.

01:36:56 ◼   ► It's not good.

01:36:57 ◼   ► It's not good at all.

01:36:58 ◼   ► And of course, you know, regular soda is terrible because it's just full of actual sugar or

01:37:03 ◼   ► full of corn syrup.

01:37:05 ◼   ► Have you guys ever done that blind taste of sugar versus corn syrup, like, you know, Mexican

01:37:10 ◼   ► Coke versus regular?

01:37:11 ◼   ► I have.

01:37:13 ◼   ► I cannot tell.

01:37:14 ◼   ► I thought I could tell until I did the blind test, and then I was like, "Yeah, nope, can't

01:37:18 ◼   ► tell."

01:37:20 ◼   ► And the thing is, they don't taste different, and I can't tell which is which, it's exactly

01:37:23 ◼   ► the same.

01:37:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:37:25 ◼   ► You know what I've learned this episode of ATP?

01:37:26 ◼   ► I've learned that I'm so goddamn thankful that I'm not as picky as you two.

01:37:32 ◼   ► We just said we couldn't tell the difference.

01:37:33 ◼   ► If we were picky, we'd be like, "Oh, I can totally tell the Mexican is different."

01:37:36 ◼   ► Nope, can't tell.

01:37:37 ◼   ► That's why someday I should have Marco make me coffee so I can try it and spit it out

01:37:41 ◼   ► in front of him.

01:37:42 ◼   ► Oh, I've done that.

01:37:43 ◼   ► I've done that.

01:37:44 ◼   ► It doesn't end well for you.

01:37:45 ◼   ► I promise.

01:37:46 ◼   ► I always want to know.

01:37:47 ◼   ► Maybe I'm just missing the problem.

01:37:50 ◼   ► I'm very sensitive to bitter taste, being a supertaster and all, so I imagine I would

01:37:54 ◼   ► hate his coffee as much as I hate all coffee, but it would be his fault.

01:37:58 ◼   ► Humble break.

01:37:59 ◼   ► It's the only thing I'm super at, so, you know, I have to… got that going for me.

01:38:07 ◼   ► Or against me, as the case may be.

01:38:11 ◼   ► All I know is, diet coke is the best drink in the world.

01:38:16 ◼   ► You and your Sprite.

01:38:17 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

01:38:18 ◼   ► And I don't…

01:38:19 ◼   ► I don't have that in the house.

01:38:21 ◼   ► I don't drink it.

01:38:22 ◼   ► It's terrible.

01:38:23 ◼   ► It's sugar water.

01:38:24 ◼   ► No, Sprite.

01:38:25 ◼   ► Oh, god.

01:38:26 ◼   ► You're missing out.

01:38:27 ◼   ► It's just when I go out, very often their water tastes gross or is weird, and I don't

01:38:32 ◼   ► want an alcoholic drink, so I go with Sprite, which is less, uh, I don't know, I like it

01:38:38 ◼   ► better than Coke most of the time.