ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Which one did you listen to? The stupid one with Mike Daisy from way back when?

00:00:03 ◼   ► No, the one with the Long Island Jeep dealer or whatever it was.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Yeah, that was a pretty good episode. You still do your fake, like, "This is how we think people

00:00:11 ◼   ► are on Long Island," after hearing people on Long Island talk for an entire show?

00:00:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:16 ◼   ► And you're still going to do that? It didn't take hearing all the actual people from Long

00:00:19 ◼   ► Island talk? You're just going to go back to that because you think that is somehow representative

00:00:24 ◼   ► of something?

00:00:24 ◼   ► No, I think it makes you mad, and I think that's funny.

00:00:26 ◼   ► So Richmond's in the South, right?

00:00:29 ◼   ► Yeah, once upon a time it was the capital of the Confederacy.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Too bad it's so small it doesn't even have an Apple store.

00:00:34 ◼   ► No, Richmond does. You're thinking of Charlottesville, which is an hour west.

00:00:38 ◼   ► You're just trying to get me angry so you can go to bed.

00:00:41 ◼   ► I really want to go to bed. My throat's all dry. I just took my last sip of water. I'm so tired.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Just think of the editing job you have ahead. You're going to have to listen back to all this

00:00:50 ◼   ► crap again to try to extract some value from it. So you have double punishment.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Right, so we have some follow-up.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Alright, take it out of the parking lot.

00:01:00 ◼   ► Alright, so the first follow-up is from me and it's from

00:01:05 ◼   ► Al. I don't know if that's Al or Al or what. I'm gonna say Alabama.

00:01:10 ◼   ► You know, I think that's right. I think this person's name is Alabama. So anyway, he or she

00:01:16 ◼   ► made a point with regard to the

00:01:20 ◼   ► Android, people switching from Android to iOS, which you had said

00:01:24 ◼   ► Kind of off the cuff an episode or episode or two ago

00:01:27 ◼   ► And so reading from his or her feedback in my immediate circle of friends and colleagues 15 people have switched from iOS to Android

00:01:35 ◼   ► None have switched from Android to iOS

00:01:37 ◼   ► The main reason and this is what I thought was interesting the main reason after an iOS update their one-plus-year-old iPhone

00:01:44 ◼   ► Officially supported by Apple slowed down and made them mad now on Android

00:01:48 ◼   ► 95% of them don't get updates, but everything keeps working as

00:01:54 ◼   ► "fast" as it did when they got the phone.

00:01:58 ◼   ► And I thought that was very interesting

00:01:59 ◼   ► because I've not heard this personally,

00:02:01 ◼   ► but I could see that being,

00:02:04 ◼   ► I don't know if I should use the word legitimate,

00:02:05 ◼   ► but perhaps justifiable reason for not upgrading,

00:02:09 ◼   ► or not upgrading your iPhone

00:02:10 ◼   ► or alternatively going to Android.

00:02:12 ◼   ► And I was just curious if you two had any thoughts on that.

00:02:14 ◼   ► - I mean, it's kind of a weak argument.

00:02:17 ◼   ► I mean, first of all, it's totally anecdotal.

00:02:18 ◼   ► Now, my statement was,

00:02:20 ◼   ► I forget exactly my words,

00:02:23 ◼   ► but it was saying that not a lot of people

00:02:26 ◼   ► ever move from iOS to Android,

00:02:29 ◼   ► but people do move from Android to iOS.

00:02:31 ◼   ► And I didn't back it up with anything,

00:02:33 ◼   ► and I don't really have a lot of strong support for that,

00:02:35 ◼   ► except that just from what I've seen online,

00:02:37 ◼   ► I've seen occasional studies and surveys

00:02:39 ◼   ► and reports here and there that some Android people

00:02:42 ◼   ► move to iOS after having an Android phone.

00:02:44 ◼   ► And I've never seen a report that says otherwise,

00:02:47 ◼   ► I mean, that says the opposite,

00:02:48 ◼   ► that some statistically significant number of people

00:02:52 ◼   ► move from iOS to Android after having an iPhone.

00:02:55 ◼   ► Those numbers might be out there,

00:02:58 ◼   ► but I've only ever seen the former,

00:03:00 ◼   ► and I've never seen the latter being reported

00:03:02 ◼   ► in an actual study or report of real numbers

00:03:05 ◼   ► with real people.

00:03:06 ◼   ► So anybody can have anecdotes saying,

00:03:09 ◼   ► oh well, I switched, or my friends all switched

00:03:11 ◼   ► in the other direction, but I would love to know

00:03:13 ◼   ► if anybody has actual numbers backing that up

00:03:15 ◼   ► in either direction or both directions

00:03:16 ◼   ► or in either direction.

00:03:18 ◼   ► I would love to see actual numbers for that

00:03:20 ◼   ► because neither of us really do really have anything

00:03:23 ◼   ► to support this, me or--

00:03:25 ◼   ► ow!

00:03:27 ◼   ► I like this anecdote, though, because it highlights

00:03:31 ◼   ► a phenomenon that I've seen a lot in that when you have

00:03:37 ◼   ► a study of a large group of people,

00:03:38 ◼   ► you want to see larger trends or whatever.

00:03:40 ◼   ► But that's just like--

00:03:43 ◼   ► those big numbers are good for sort

00:03:45 ◼   ► of seeing where the industry or the population is going.

00:03:48 ◼   ► But in any small pocket of people, this phenomenon that this person is describing is something

00:03:53 ◼   ► that I've seen a lot of.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And that, like, how do people decide to, you know, change platforms, switch from a Mac

00:04:03 ◼   ► to a PC, like, whatever sort of technology purchasing decision and platform it is, how

00:04:10 ◼   ► do they change?

00:04:11 ◼   ► Do they change on an individual basis?

00:04:13 ◼   ► Most of the time what I see is what this person described is that social groups move kind

00:04:18 ◼   ► of as a herd in that it will become socially accepted within some small or large group

00:04:24 ◼   ► of people, whether it's just five friends or an entire family or an entire community.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Darrell Bock Or a "framily."

00:04:29 ◼   ► What?

00:04:30 ◼   ► Adam Boff Yeah, and it will become like common wisdom.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Everybody knows that X is true of Y, and it starts becoming socially unacceptable to still

00:04:42 ◼   ► be using X when everybody knows X has this problem Y and you should all change to Z.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Whatever it may be, whether it's about cars, dishwashers, car seats, daycares, I'm thinking

00:04:53 ◼   ► of parenting things, but like, you know, and also with phones. And I've seen this as well

00:04:58 ◼   ► in small groups of people. Everyone just knows like, oh, you know, like the original was like

00:05:04 ◼   ► with the iPhone, oh, your phone is crappy. You should get an iPhone because it's better

00:05:08 ◼   ► at the web or whatever. And then not everyone, or it's the cool thing, or they have apps and

00:05:12 ◼   ► and apps are cool.

00:05:12 ◼   ► And on the other side, you know, in this group,

00:05:15 ◼   ► like, oh, you should get off Apple phones

00:05:17 ◼   ► 'cause Apple doesn't support their old products

00:05:19 ◼   ► and they intentionally slow things down.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Everybody knows that.

00:05:22 ◼   ► You should try Android or whatever.

00:05:24 ◼   ► It doesn't really matter whether the thing

00:05:25 ◼   ► they're talking about is true or not,

00:05:27 ◼   ► or whether it's true for a brief period of time,

00:05:29 ◼   ► or was true in the past, is no longer true,

00:05:31 ◼   ► or was never true.

00:05:32 ◼   ► It doesn't really matter.

00:05:33 ◼   ► All it matters is that like the social proof

00:05:36 ◼   ► of a group of friends or family or whatever

00:05:40 ◼   ► can move these little pockets of people.

00:05:42 ◼   ► And the pocket phenomena has almost nothing to do

00:05:47 ◼   ► with the larger trend, because there could be pockets going,

00:05:49 ◼   ► especially if they're basing their movement

00:05:51 ◼   ► on things that aren't true anyway.

00:05:53 ◼   ► These pockets could be just Brownian motion,

00:05:54 ◼   ► just like random movement of these little pockets.

00:05:56 ◼   ► But I think it's interesting that it's not a uniform motion,

00:06:01 ◼   ► and the decisions aren't made on an individual basis.

00:06:04 ◼   ► It's sort of social proof and hearsay

00:06:08 ◼   ► and half-truths and stuff like that that cause these little pockets to move in one direction

00:06:13 ◼   ► or the other. And that, I think, is fascinating no matter which direction they're moving in.

00:06:16 ◼   ► Fascinating and a little bit depressing, but I've long since learned that there's no use

00:06:21 ◼   ► trying to dissuade people of whatever notion that they've decided about whatever it is they're

00:06:27 ◼   ► talking about, whether it's vacuum cleaners or cars or certainly parenting and also things like

00:06:32 ◼   ► phones. And they tend to go in cycles, so whenever I hear someone say something like,

00:06:35 ◼   ► I'm always going to get Android phones because iOS phones don't have flash and I need flash.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Just don't -- it's difficult to discuss that topic in a constructive way with them

00:06:48 ◼   ► about the utility of flash on the web and how many Android phones have flash

00:06:54 ◼   ► or how useful it is in the mobile web or whatever.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Once they've decided that, they're not going to change their mind until the new thing is,

00:07:00 ◼   ► you know, Android phones are unreliable.

00:07:03 ◼   ► I'm gonna get Apple because my last two Android phones broke or something equally

00:07:07 ◼   ► Unfounded or random or whatever

00:07:10 ◼   ► What I think I think Al's specific

00:07:12 ◼   ► Instance here that he's saying that his friends and he all switched because they were mad because their one-year-old iPhone

00:07:21 ◼   ► got a software update from Apple that made it slower and

00:07:24 ◼   ► This is actually an interesting conundrum. Like, you know, what should Apple do here now?

00:07:30 ◼   ► I've never heard anybody say that about an Android phone that it got a software update

00:07:34 ◼   ► Period but also

00:07:38 ◼   ► But also that that a software update slowed it down and maybe that's because they they so rarely get updates

00:07:42 ◼   ► I don't know but whatever the reason I've never heard people say that I think a lot of this has to do with

00:07:47 ◼   ► This like cultural narrative that people especially Apple skeptics and anti Apple people

00:07:53 ◼   ► Have have had about Apple for a while, which is their products are overpriced, right?

00:07:58 ◼   ► right, nevermind that the iPhone is often sold at retail

00:08:02 ◼   ► at the same price as similar Android phones, whatever,

00:08:04 ◼   ► and you can make those arguments all day about,

00:08:07 ◼   ► oh, we'll configure a PC with similar hardware

00:08:09 ◼   ► as a MacBook Pro and it's a similar price.

00:08:11 ◼   ► You can make those arguments all day.

00:08:12 ◼   ► It doesn't matter, as John, you just said.

00:08:14 ◼   ► It's hard to ever convince these people otherwise

00:08:16 ◼   ► once they have these long-running beliefs,

00:08:19 ◼   ► but the commonly held,

00:08:22 ◼   ► and I've heard people say this all the time,

00:08:23 ◼   ► the commonly held thing here is Apple's update

00:08:26 ◼   ► made my old phone slower to force me to buy a new one

00:08:29 ◼   ► because they want more money.

00:08:31 ◼   ► Now, again, I've never heard anybody say,

00:08:34 ◼   ► Samsung updated my phone to make me buy a new one

00:08:36 ◼   ► and intentionally made it slower

00:08:37 ◼   ► so I'd buy a new Samsung phone.

00:08:39 ◼   ► I've never heard a single person say that.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Again, this is anecdotal, who knows if people do.

00:08:43 ◼   ► But the motive is ascribed to Apple

00:08:46 ◼   ► that if a new version of the software is slower,

00:08:49 ◼   ► or if I just perceive it to be slower even if it's not,

00:08:52 ◼   ► or if it is slower but for a reason

00:08:54 ◼   ► that's not the fault of the operating system,

00:08:56 ◼   ► Maybe I'm like running more apps and stuff and some app is slowing stuff down or killing

00:08:59 ◼   ► the battery, you know, whatever the reason.

00:09:01 ◼   ► They ascribe the blame to "Oh, Apple is greedy because their products are expensive

00:09:04 ◼   ► and they want more of my money."

00:09:06 ◼   ► However, what would happen if Apple did not give software updates to one-year-old phones?

00:09:14 ◼   ► Then you'd have these exact same people making the exact same complaint.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Apple is so greedy they won't let me have the new software, they made my phone obsolete

00:09:23 ◼   ► they will use the word obsolete even though it does not mean what they think it means but they will use the word anyway

00:09:27 ◼   ► Apple made my phone obsolete to force me to buy a new one because they want more money and they're so greedy

00:09:32 ◼   ► Like it would be the exact same argument if they did it the other direction

00:09:34 ◼   ► and so this is one of those things like I don't think I think this is it's just like it's a it's a cultural like

00:09:41 ◼   ► rumor or or meme or just

00:09:44 ◼   ► norm that

00:09:46 ◼   ► this certain pretty sizable group of people just thinks this about Apple and will always describe that motive of

00:09:52 ◼   ► their stuff is expensive, therefore anything they do

00:09:54 ◼   ► is to make me go spend more money on their stuff.

00:09:57 ◼   ► And occasionally that might be the reason they do something,

00:10:00 ◼   ► but I think it's pretty occasional.

00:10:01 ◼   ► I think that's more like a happy side effect

00:10:04 ◼   ► of moving things forward and making new stuff every year

00:10:07 ◼   ► and moving the requirements forward every year.

00:10:09 ◼   ► But what do you expect them to do

00:10:11 ◼   ► with your 18 month old iPhone 4?

00:10:13 ◼   ► Like do you expect them to, either way,

00:10:16 ◼   ► if they support this old hardware forever,

00:10:19 ◼   ► it will get slower over time as the OS gets more complicated

00:10:21 ◼   ► more advanced. If they don't support it forever, you'll scream that they stopped

00:10:25 ◼   ► supporting it.

00:10:26 ◼   ► Well, it's the social aspect of it that's important, because I think what happens in

00:10:29 ◼   ► these little pockets that move around is that one or two people with stature in the social

00:10:34 ◼   ► group will get unreasonably angry about something, and then the other people will feel that they

00:10:42 ◼   ► will be looked upon as foolish if they continue to have dealings with the company that's

00:10:46 ◼   ► been denounced by the person with a higher social standing. And they'd be chided about

00:10:51 ◼   ► it and said like, "Oh, you're still doing the Apple stuff?"

00:10:54 ◼   ► It becomes socially unacceptable.

00:10:56 ◼   ► Even if that individual, if left to their own devices, doesn't have a problem, their

00:11:00 ◼   ► device didn't get slower, or they upgraded and didn't notice any problems or whatever,

00:11:04 ◼   ► it becomes a problem socially speaking because of the one or two people who are angry.

00:11:08 ◼   ► And you see this in the opposite thing too.

00:11:10 ◼   ► Marco, recently you posted a link on your website about the guys' experience at Google

00:11:17 ◼   ► I/O versus WWDC.

00:11:19 ◼   ► In our social circle, or at least in some social circles, there is a stigma about Android

00:11:23 ◼   ► phones, about how they're crappy and there's nothing good on them.

00:11:25 ◼   ► And if you were seen with an Android phone, whether you like the Android phone or not,

00:11:29 ◼   ► if you're in a social group where that is looked down upon, you'll get crap about having

00:11:33 ◼   ► an Android phone.

00:11:35 ◼   ► Now, I've never experienced that with the groups that I've traveled in.

00:11:39 ◼   ► I don't think people care that much, but I know it is definitely a thing because I've

00:11:42 ◼   ► seen this opposite thing as well.

00:11:43 ◼   ► And it has, if you're in that social group, it doesn't matter if you are perfectly happy

00:11:47 ◼   ► with your Android phone, at a certain point you begin to feel foolish for having an Android

00:11:54 ◼   ► phone because all these other people that you respect say that you shouldn't have one

00:11:57 ◼   ► and they're crappy, or you get teased about it or whatever.

00:12:00 ◼   ► And so groups will move, you know, groups of teenagers, families, groups of coworkers.

00:12:07 ◼   ► And again, these individual bubbles mean nothing about the larger trend.

00:12:10 ◼   ► They are just lumps in the real world data.

00:12:13 ◼   ► But I think it's fascinating how these little groups are moving.

00:12:16 ◼   ► I think the group can spread quite widely. Obviously the macro phenomenon is if something

00:12:23 ◼   ► happens to some kind of news story that lets you learn that like Company X is evil because

00:12:27 ◼   ► they sell children into slavery or whatever, that bubble will just grow and cover everybody

00:12:31 ◼   ► and it'll be like, well, I'm not going to, you know, forget it. We're not buying anything

00:12:35 ◼   ► for that anymore. The company goes out of business. Like the bubbles can end up growing

00:12:38 ◼   ► and connect with each other and just cover the entire map. But these type of bubbles,

00:12:42 ◼   ► In my experience, tend to be focused on one or two people with high social standing who

00:12:47 ◼   ► have a bad experience with whatever, and that spreads to one or two degrees of connections

00:12:53 ◼   ► from the person.

00:12:54 ◼   ► The only exception is cases—and this one always cracks me up—where there are no good

00:12:58 ◼   ► alternatives.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Where someone with high social standing has a bad experience with an airline, and they

00:13:02 ◼   ► say they will never fly that airline again, it's like, "Well, five down, six more to

00:13:09 ◼   ► go, and you will be out of airlines," because they're all terrible.

00:13:11 ◼   ► It's like, I'm never dealing with Comcast again.

00:13:14 ◼   ► It's okay, well, so you have probably one, two,

00:13:17 ◼   ► possibly zero other cable companies.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Eventually you will hate them all,

00:13:21 ◼   ► and then what will you do?

00:13:22 ◼   ► Then you'll have to pick the least bad one,

00:13:23 ◼   ► which is what we're all doing anyway.

00:13:24 ◼   ► So that one I think people have learned to ignore,

00:13:26 ◼   ► because it used to be like, oh, well, I'll never fly Delta.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Our family doesn't fly Delta.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Delta's terrible.

00:13:31 ◼   ► Sorry, Delta, I'm just picking your name out of the hat.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Is Delta still in business?

00:13:33 ◼   ► - Yes, and they are terrible,

00:13:34 ◼   ► but it doesn't really matter, 'cause they're all terrible.

00:13:36 ◼   ► - Right, but at this point, everyone sort of knows,

00:13:39 ◼   ► look, they're all terrible.

00:13:40 ◼   ► If someone in your family or work group or whatever is super mad at some airline, it

00:13:46 ◼   ► is not reason for you to not fly that airline.

00:13:49 ◼   ► If anyone gives you crap about flying an airline because they'll tell you about the horrible

00:13:52 ◼   ► experience they had, you say, "Look, every airline has those stories.

00:13:56 ◼   ► They're all terrible."

00:13:57 ◼   ► Right?

00:13:58 ◼   ► But with the phone things, I still think this is going in cycles.

00:14:01 ◼   ► And with Apple stuff as well.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Like, I have relatives who were on Macs for years and then a bubble forums about, like,

00:14:07 ◼   ► Mac broke and I didn't feel like I was getting the support I need or I felt like it was obsolete

00:14:11 ◼   ► before it was supposed to be or it is unreliable or I no longer understand it.

00:14:15 ◼   ► So they switched to PC.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Or my, you know, I don't like Apple and I've switched from Mac to PC so now I'm going to

00:14:21 ◼   ► get an Android phone on general principles because I'm mad at Apple about the whatever

00:14:24 ◼   ► thing.

00:14:25 ◼   ► Like, that can happen anywhere but like, wait ten years and it could be back around the

00:14:29 ◼   ► other side again.

00:14:30 ◼   ► I'm never getting an Android phone again, these things are terrible, I don't like them

00:14:32 ◼   ► for whatever reason they decide, I'm only getting, you know, Microsoft phones or Windows

00:14:38 ◼   ► phones or whatever. And very few of these decisions have anything to do with logic and

00:14:41 ◼   ► they just end up being noise. But this is the source of anecdotes. So anytime you hear

00:14:45 ◼   ► an anecdote, just think of one of these bubbles and think of what is making this bubble move

00:14:48 ◼   ► from one camp to the other for any reason.

00:14:51 ◼   ► So you're saying that you never got made fun of for your flip phone, say in the lobby of

00:14:56 ◼   ► the Park 55 at WWDC?

00:14:59 ◼   ► That doesn't run Android.

00:15:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:00 ◼   ► - Fluff phone is a whole,

00:15:01 ◼   ► that's a whole other category of thing,

00:15:04 ◼   ► and that's like gentle teasing.

00:15:05 ◼   ► I didn't feel like I'm excluded from the group

00:15:07 ◼   ► because I have one.

00:15:08 ◼   ► It's like, "I can't hang out with you guys.

00:15:09 ◼   ► "I don't have an iPhone."

00:15:10 ◼   ► Like, no one really cares.

00:15:11 ◼   ► - Well, I don't think we made fun of you.

00:15:13 ◼   ► I just took a picture and posted it on Instagram

00:15:16 ◼   ► and got 400 people to make fun of you.

00:15:18 ◼   ► - That's a whole other category of things.

00:15:20 ◼   ► Like, you're not even participating.

00:15:21 ◼   ► You don't even have a smartphone.

00:15:22 ◼   ► You still have a dumb phone.

00:15:23 ◼   ► It's like I would,

00:15:24 ◼   ► if I showed up running a penny-farthing bicycle or something.

00:15:27 ◼   ► I mean, it's like, whatever.

00:15:28 ◼   ► But, you know.

00:15:29 ◼   ► It's funny because I'm not going to laugh at anyone using a flip phone.

00:15:33 ◼   ► I will laugh at you using a flip phone because it's funny that you, of all people, don't

00:15:37 ◼   ► have a smartphone.

00:15:38 ◼   ► It's actually not funny.

00:15:39 ◼   ► It's been explained many, many times.

00:15:40 ◼   ► But anyway, people who are excited about it can be excited about it.

00:15:44 ◼   ► But the point is, it's not like I felt as if I wasn't welcome in the group.

00:15:48 ◼   ► Whereas that was the angle with the Google I/O thing where you're hanging out at WWDC

00:15:52 ◼   ► and you pull out of your Android phone and you somehow feel like you can't participate

00:15:56 ◼   ► in the group anymore.

00:15:59 ◼   ► you're not allowed in, you're not with the cool kids or whatever.

00:16:03 ◼   ► I've never personally experienced that phenomenon.

00:16:05 ◼   ► Maybe I don't care enough about what phone I have, maybe other people don't care enough

00:16:08 ◼   ► about what other phone I have, but I imagine it's entirely real, depending on who you're

00:16:12 ◼   ► hanging out with.

00:16:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I've also never seen that, but I've also very rarely ever seen somebody take out

00:16:17 ◼   ► an Android phone, period, at WWDC.

00:16:20 ◼   ► And I think in the groups that we hang out in, if we were hanging out in some abroad

00:16:23 ◼   ► Android phone, I think our reaction would be curiosity.

00:16:25 ◼   ► You would all want to know, show me something cool in that phone.

00:16:29 ◼   ► Why are you using that phone?

00:16:30 ◼   ► Not as a challenge, but show me the thing that that phone can do that the iPhone can't

00:16:34 ◼   ► do.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Again, not as a challenge, but because we're interested in, A, most of us don't want to

00:16:38 ◼   ► know a lot about Android, and B, in the circles we travel in, if anyone we know pulls out

00:16:42 ◼   ► something, we assume because they are someone we respect and are friends with or whatever

00:16:46 ◼   ► and knows tech stuff, that there must be a reason they're using it and we would want

00:16:49 ◼   ► to know that reason.

00:16:50 ◼   ► I feel like curiosity would be the reaction.

00:16:53 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like if somebody, you know, showed up to a party on an elephant. Like, okay, well, we all drove here,

00:16:58 ◼   ► you took the elephant, that's on you. I haven't seen an elephant being ridden in a while, especially to parties like this.

00:17:04 ◼   ► Please tell me why you were the elephant here, and can you show me, you know, can I have a ride maybe? Like, what's going on?

00:17:10 ◼   ► Can I see the trunk?

00:17:12 ◼   ► Sorry, that joke was too bad to pass up.

00:17:14 ◼   ► A tangible example of this is, I went to dinner with Justin Williams and a couple other people when I was at

00:17:22 ◼   ► And he's rocking, or he was at the time rocking a 5C, which that's exactly what happened.

00:17:28 ◼   ► It led to a very brief discussion of a 5C, why not a 5S?

00:17:31 ◼   ► What the hell is wrong with you?

00:17:32 ◼   ► Why aren't you rocking a 5S?

00:17:34 ◼   ► What makes a 5C so much better?

00:17:36 ◼   ► And it was more about, you know, it was playful ribbing, but more about, "Geez, tell me why

00:17:41 ◼   ► you prefer this because you're someone whose opinion I trust and I respect.

00:17:46 ◼   ► you've taken what could be called a contrarian opinion or a contrarian position, tell me

00:17:54 ◼   ► why.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Or even, it doesn't even need to have to be contrarian, it's just unusual. Like,

00:17:58 ◼   ► you're the only person that I've seen in this entire conference so far have a 5C.

00:18:02 ◼   ► You know, out of curiosity, why?

00:18:04 ◼   ► And the answer is because it's super comfortable and smooth on the back and everything. It's

00:18:08 ◼   ► just a better form factor than the, uh…

00:18:10 ◼   ► So, actually, I think that was pretty much his answer.

00:18:12 ◼   ► And it comes in colors.

00:18:13 ◼   ► That's it.

00:18:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:15 ◼   ► about something awesome and then we'll continue with follow-up.

00:18:18 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by a new sponsor. It's Harry's. Go to Harrys.com and use the

00:18:23 ◼   ► promo code ATP for $5 off your first purchase. Harry's is less than a year old and they're

00:18:29 ◼   ► already disrupting the shaving industry. They offer a better shaving experience at better

00:18:34 ◼   ► value than the giants like Schick and Gillette. We don't have to argue whether it's pronounced

00:18:39 ◼   ► like Gillette or Gillette, right? Like Giff and Jiff?

00:18:42 ◼   ► It's Gillette.

00:18:43 ◼   ► That's what I thought.

00:18:44 ◼   ► So it's founded by two guys.

00:18:46 ◼   ► One of them, Jeff, also co-founded Warby Parker.

00:18:49 ◼   ► You've heard us talk about them before.

00:18:51 ◼   ► And there are many similarities.

00:18:53 ◼   ► Both of them are disrupting huge stagnant industries

00:18:56 ◼   ► by offering great design, meticulous craftsmanship,

00:18:58 ◼   ► and great highly personal customer

00:19:00 ◼   ► service at an amazing value.

00:19:03 ◼   ► The other founder of Harry's named Andy-- neither of them

00:19:05 ◼   ► are named Harry-- but the other founder, Andy,

00:19:09 ◼   ► went to a drugstore one day to restock on some shaving

00:19:11 ◼   ► supplies.

00:19:12 ◼   ► He had to ask for help and wait around for more than 10 minutes for someone to come over

00:19:16 ◼   ► and unlock the shoplifting case that has all the razors in it.

00:19:20 ◼   ► So anyway, he was eventually permitted to buy one of the four packs of blades and some

00:19:24 ◼   ► shaving cream.

00:19:25 ◼   ► So that's it, four blades and shaving cream.

00:19:27 ◼   ► And for this great privilege of being treated like a criminal and wasting all of his time,

00:19:30 ◼   ► he had to pay over $25 for just four blades and some shaving cream.

00:19:35 ◼   ► So after that, he knew there had to be a better way.

00:19:38 ◼   ► Harry's makes amazing German engineered razor blades.

00:19:42 ◼   ► They care actually so much about the quality of the shave that they just purchased the

00:19:45 ◼   ► 93 year old German factory that makes them.

00:19:48 ◼   ► They are focused on providing men and women a great shaving experience for a fraction

00:19:52 ◼   ► of the price of the competitors.

00:19:54 ◼   ► Now they sent me a sample pack and I gotta say it, I'm really impressed.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Like I've actually been like a secret shaving nerd for a long time.

00:20:02 ◼   ► And I did all this stuff years ago with like the straight razor, not the straight razor,

00:20:06 ◼   ► but the double edge safety razor and the brushes and everything.

00:20:10 ◼   ► And I eventually went back to,

00:20:12 ◼   ► I currently use the Gillette Fusion.

00:20:14 ◼   ► And I gotta say, the quality of their shave

00:20:19 ◼   ► matches the Gillette Fusion quality.

00:20:21 ◼   ► And I didn't think it was,

00:20:22 ◼   ► I've tried a lot of other ones,

00:20:23 ◼   ► I've never found anything else that matched it,

00:20:25 ◼   ► they match it.

00:20:26 ◼   ► And the cream was nice too,

00:20:28 ◼   ► and the handle's actually really,

00:20:30 ◼   ► it's a nice weighty handle.

00:20:32 ◼   ► I think there's some kind of metal in the middle somewhere.

00:20:35 ◼   ► It's a nice weighty handle,

00:20:37 ◼   ► and certainly looks a lot nicer,

00:20:39 ◼   ► It feels a lot nicer in the hand and is more substantial

00:20:42 ◼   ► than the Gillette ones.

00:20:43 ◼   ► So anyway, that's my experience with it.

00:20:46 ◼   ► So anyway, back to the script.

00:20:47 ◼   ► You get the convenience and ease of ordering online.

00:20:50 ◼   ► You get high quality blades, a great handle

00:20:52 ◼   ► and shaving cream, and excellent customer service

00:20:54 ◼   ► at half the price of competitors.

00:20:56 ◼   ► They have, their blade packages,

00:20:59 ◼   ► it's like less than $2 per blade.

00:21:01 ◼   ► And just for reference, I compared it on Amazon

00:21:03 ◼   ► before the show, the price I paid for Gillette Fusion blades

00:21:07 ◼   ► is like $3.50, $3.75, $4, so it's like per blade

00:21:11 ◼   ► once you get the multi-packs and everything.

00:21:13 ◼   ► So they're under $2 a blade,

00:21:15 ◼   ► so they are really about half the price of Gillette.

00:21:17 ◼   ► So really, what they've been able to achieve

00:21:21 ◼   ► with pricing is pretty impressive to me.

00:21:23 ◼   ► Anyway, get started with a set that includes the handle,

00:21:26 ◼   ► three blades, and shaving cream for just 15 bucks,

00:21:30 ◼   ► and that's including shipping to your door.

00:21:32 ◼   ► They even offer a custom engraving option

00:21:34 ◼   ► on the handle if you want.

00:21:36 ◼   ► So thanks a lot to Harry's.

00:21:37 ◼   ► go to harrys.com and use the promo code ATP

00:21:40 ◼   ► to save $5 off your first purchase.

00:21:44 ◼   ► - So we have some follow-up about the biomedical stuff,

00:21:49 ◼   ► and then we also have some follow-up about iPhoto.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Do you wanna cover that real quick, actually?

00:21:56 ◼   ► - So I said last week that the way iPhoto did raw editing

00:21:59 ◼   ► back in the day was that you'd have the first edit

00:22:03 ◼   ► of a raw photo would be kind of losslessly operating

00:22:06 ◼   ► and then it would bake that into the JPEG

00:22:08 ◼   ► and then in future edits would lose

00:22:09 ◼   ► a little raw badge in the corner

00:22:10 ◼   ► and you would be working on the JPEG only

00:22:12 ◼   ► and if you wanted to go back and do a real adjustment

00:22:15 ◼   ► to the raw, you'd have to reprocess it and reset everything.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Apparently in newer versions of iPhoto,

00:22:19 ◼   ► that is no longer the case, which is awesome.

00:22:21 ◼   ► So now in new versions, I've had multiple people tell me

00:22:23 ◼   ► that, I haven't actually tested it yet,

00:22:25 ◼   ► but I've had multiple people tell me

00:22:26 ◼   ► that in current versions of iPhoto,

00:22:29 ◼   ► you always get the raw editing

00:22:31 ◼   ► if you're working on a raw file.

00:22:32 ◼   ► It doesn't do the thing where it bakes the edits in

00:22:33 ◼   ► after the first one and then you're working on a JPEG.

00:22:35 ◼   ► So good on that.

00:22:37 ◼   ► I got that wrong, and that's it.

00:22:39 ◼   ► Got another quick one here about the alarms going off

00:22:44 ◼   ► in hospitals and how things are always beeping because

00:22:48 ◼   ► the devices don't know enough to know whether something is

00:22:50 ◼   ► normal or abnormal, there's malfunctions and stuff like

00:22:52 ◼   ► that.

00:22:53 ◼   ► And Adam Gaines wrote in to tell us that the proper name

00:22:56 ◼   ► for this is alarm fatigue.

00:22:58 ◼   ► And we'll put a link in the show notes talking about--

00:23:01 ◼   ► it's an NPR story talking about alarm fatigue.

00:23:03 ◼   ► But it makes sense this is already a term for this

00:23:05 ◼   ► because it's definitely a thing.

00:23:07 ◼   ► - That's a nice term too, I like that.

00:23:08 ◼   ► - We got notification fatigue on mobile devices, I guess,

00:23:12 ◼   ► or on those watches that are always buzzing on your wrists

00:23:14 ◼   ► every time you get a notification.

00:23:15 ◼   ► Although I don't know how people deal with it

00:23:17 ◼   ► with their phones.

00:23:18 ◼   ► Like sometimes I briefly use someone else's phone

00:23:20 ◼   ► and the thing is always beeping and buzzing

00:23:21 ◼   ► and things are going off.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Like I disable like every notification.

00:23:25 ◼   ► Almost everything is disabled.

00:23:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, I talked about this before,

00:23:29 ◼   ► but I keep them so low that like I can sleep

00:23:32 ◼   ► with my phone on next to my bed

00:23:34 ◼   ► with the volume on every night.

00:23:35 ◼   ► And I expect to hear nothing all night

00:23:36 ◼   ► unless something is really important and happening.

00:23:38 ◼   ► And that's, I've done that for years and it's been fine.

00:23:41 ◼   ► And you know, I think people are criticizing

00:23:43 ◼   ► these Android Wear watches for buzzing constantly

00:23:46 ◼   ► and showing them all these notifications constantly,

00:23:48 ◼   ► but that's not really the watch's problem.

00:23:50 ◼   ► That's your problem as the user

00:23:51 ◼   ► for having all the notifications configured.

00:23:54 ◼   ► And you know, maybe you could say that the platform

00:23:56 ◼   ► should add some kind of granularity setting,

00:23:58 ◼   ► like priorities of notifications that,

00:23:59 ◼   ► I don't know if they do or not.

00:24:00 ◼   ► I'm assuming they don't,

00:24:01 ◼   ► or at least the watches don't integrate

00:24:03 ◼   ► with anything like that yet.

00:24:04 ◼   ► But that's not a great solution.

00:24:06 ◼   ► That's kind of a, that's like a programmer hack solution.

00:24:08 ◼   ► That's not really a good solution.

00:24:10 ◼   ► The good solution is to exercise a little bit

00:24:13 ◼   ► more self-control over the notifications

00:24:15 ◼   ► that you choose to receive.

00:24:16 ◼   ► And if you don't want to have your wrist buzzing

00:24:18 ◼   ► all the time, maybe it isn't important enough

00:24:20 ◼   ► to have a notification for it.

00:24:22 ◼   ► So that's really, like I don't, that's another thing.

00:24:23 ◼   ► Like people are arguing, or they're criticizing

00:24:26 ◼   ► these watches for that.

00:24:27 ◼   ► It's like that's not really, like that's your fault,

00:24:29 ◼   ► not the watch's fault.

00:24:30 ◼   ► - The thing that really blows me away for like,

00:24:32 ◼   ► iOS users are, most people don't read Twitter the way I do

00:24:35 ◼   ► and that they don't read every single tweet in the feed,

00:24:37 ◼   ► right, which is fine, that's a different way to use Twitter.

00:24:40 ◼   ► But then those same people who don't read their entire feed

00:24:43 ◼   ► have notifications turned on for their @mentions.

00:24:46 ◼   ► And that combination just doesn't make any sense to me.

00:24:48 ◼   ► You're not interested enough that you're gonna read

00:24:51 ◼   ► every single tweet of all the people you follow,

00:24:53 ◼   ► but you are interested enough when any random person

00:24:56 ◼   ► @mentions you that your phone is gonna buzz

00:24:58 ◼   ► and vibrate and bleep, are you kidding?

00:25:02 ◼   ► I have no notifications for Twitter, I have no notifications for email.

00:25:05 ◼   ► The only thing that could make my iPod make any kind of noise, I think, is iMessage, and

00:25:10 ◼   ► I almost never use that unless I'm like @WWDC.

00:25:13 ◼   ► How does that not make sense?

00:25:15 ◼   ► Because I don't necessarily care about the crap that everyone else is shouting into the

00:25:20 ◼   ► world.

00:25:21 ◼   ► But hey, if you're talking to me, I want to know.

00:25:23 ◼   ► So you don't care—the list of people you decide to follow, you don't care enough to

00:25:26 ◼   ► read everything they say, but anybody in the entire world, that mentions you and you need

00:25:30 ◼   ► to know about it right now. Any jerk from anywhere has more control over your attention

00:25:35 ◼   ► than the people you have chosen to follow.

00:25:37 ◼   ► I mean, to be clear, I'm just playing devil's advocate, but yes. I mean, I don't think that's

00:25:41 ◼   ► a surprising conclusion for any normal human to reach. Humans are selfish bastards, and

00:25:47 ◼   ► that's what we're programmed to be. So it's all about us, it's all about me, me, me, and

00:25:53 ◼   ► it's not surprising to me that people would skip what everyone else is saying unless it

00:25:58 ◼   ► pertains to me.

00:25:59 ◼   ► Maybe if people get very, very few @mentions, it's not a problem, but most of the people

00:26:03 ◼   ► that I know do get a lot of @mentions, and I bet at least half of them are bad.

00:26:08 ◼   ► So it's like you're running that Facebook experiment on yourself where you're making

00:26:11 ◼   ► yourself feel bad by making your phone ring with a 50% chance that it's going to be someone

00:26:14 ◼   ► saying something that's going to make you feel bad.

00:26:16 ◼   ► But you need to, "Oh, now it's time for my phone to vibrate.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I got to pull that out.

00:26:19 ◼   ► Let me see what Random Jerk 123 had to say about me.

00:26:22 ◼   ► 50/50 shot, it's going to make me feel bad."

00:26:24 ◼   ► Which is exactly why I recently came to the conclusion

00:26:29 ◼   ► that having notifications for all @mentions is insane.

00:26:33 ◼   ► And I am a completionist like you, for the record.

00:26:35 ◼   ► But anyway, I instead have notifications only for people

00:26:39 ◼   ► that mention me that I also follow.

00:26:42 ◼   ► So the assumption here is that if somebody that I follow

00:26:46 ◼   ► is mentioning me, the signal-to-noise ratio

00:26:48 ◼   ► is quite a bit higher.

00:26:49 ◼   ► I still think it's not a reason to be

00:26:51 ◼   ► notified right now about it.

00:26:53 ◼   ► You can have a separate view of your Twitter feed

00:26:55 ◼   ► that shows you @mentions by people you follow.

00:26:57 ◼   ► Like I can understand viewing your feed, filtering your feed that way to show you stuff, but

00:27:01 ◼   ► it's not a reason to, like I don't need to know right now that someone @ mentioned me

00:27:05 ◼   ► on Twitter, right?

00:27:06 ◼   ► If I was, if I'm in the middle of reading Twitter, then fine, but like just, I, again,

00:27:10 ◼   ► I have a low tolerance for anything making my phone vibrate unless it's like a family

00:27:14 ◼   ► member giving me information I need to have right now.

00:27:16 ◼   ► Unless it's basically the equivalent of a phone call, the modern day equivalent of a

00:27:19 ◼   ► phone call where it's like real, real time information that I need to know now.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Whereas even if it's someone I follow and they @ mentioned me, I don't need to know

00:27:26 ◼   ► that now. Well you're much you have much more self-control than I do and I and I

00:27:31 ◼   ► need to be more like you and I'm not saying that to patronize you. I feel

00:27:36 ◼   ► like I want to know if somebody's talking to me because I feel like

00:27:39 ◼   ► Twitter's just a half step less important than a text message which goes

00:27:43 ◼   ► back to my appearance on IRL talk but but I I should turn off all @mention

00:27:48 ◼   ► notifications but I don't know I just I want to know I want to know if

00:27:51 ◼   ► somebody's talking about me. You'll find out when you when you have a chance to

00:27:54 ◼   ► look at twitter then you will see what they had to say about you but you need to know this second i

00:27:58 ◼   ► mean i would just again it gets back to just i have so few notifications turned on at all period

00:28:03 ◼   ► like there is very little that happens on my phone that i think requires me to service it immediately

00:28:09 ◼   ► like it's like it's servicing an interrupt you know not that kind of service interrupt service

00:28:14 ◼   ► routine anyway to be clear i don't have sounds on so it shows up on my home screen but i don't have

00:28:22 ◼   ► have any sort of buzzing or anything like that.

00:28:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm actually, so Overcast has push notifications

00:28:29 ◼   ► for the episodes, and the way it works is I send

00:28:31 ◼   ► a content available push, which is silent,

00:28:33 ◼   ► which doesn't alert the user.

00:28:34 ◼   ► The app wakes up, downloads new stuff,

00:28:36 ◼   ► and if there's something new that the user

00:28:38 ◼   ► should be notified about, it shows a local notification.

00:28:41 ◼   ► And I actually intentionally set no sound for it,

00:28:46 ◼   ► and so far in the beta, no one has said anything about that,

00:28:48 ◼   ► and I'm wondering--

00:28:50 ◼   ► - I was gonna mention that to you,

00:28:51 ◼   ► but I didn't want to report bugs in the podcast.

00:28:53 ◼   ► But I don't, well actually this may be a separate thing.

00:28:55 ◼   ► I'll be listening to a podcast, right?

00:28:57 ◼   ► And then the sound will duck,

00:28:59 ◼   ► as in, you know, go lower volume, briefly.

00:29:02 ◼   ► And that is my cue to know that some notification

00:29:04 ◼   ► has happened on my system.

00:29:05 ◼   ► But I don't know what notification it was

00:29:07 ◼   ► because no banner goes down

00:29:08 ◼   ► 'cause I have no notifications turned on,

00:29:09 ◼   ► but I know that something has happened.

00:29:11 ◼   ► And so frequently I will pause the audio,

00:29:13 ◼   ► go back and see that that was a message or something.

00:29:15 ◼   ► And is that because my settings are screwed up

00:29:17 ◼   ► that it didn't make any noise?

00:29:18 ◼   ► The audio ducked, so clearly Overcast

00:29:20 ◼   ► knew that something was happening.

00:29:21 ◼   ► but no other noise came through my headphones.

00:29:23 ◼   ► - Well, that one's not, thank God that's not my bug.

00:29:25 ◼   ► In fact, not only is that not my bug,

00:29:27 ◼   ► but applications don't even get a notification

00:29:29 ◼   ► when they're being ducked.

00:29:30 ◼   ► Like, I can't really do anything in response to that.

00:29:33 ◼   ► - So am I supposed to be here?

00:29:34 ◼   ► Like, in theory, am I supposed to be hearing something?

00:29:37 ◼   ► - Probably, but fortunately that's not my bug.

00:29:39 ◼   ► - All right, well anyway, the ducking audio,

00:29:41 ◼   ► at first I thought there was like

00:29:42 ◼   ► a podcast production problem.

00:29:44 ◼   ► Like, boy, you know, in our podcast

00:29:46 ◼   ► or someone else's like, oh, why the audio ducking?

00:29:48 ◼   ► But now I learned that it's something else

00:29:49 ◼   ► going on in my phone.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Anyway, notifications suck.

00:29:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:29:54 ◼   ► - Tell me how you really feel.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Don't hold back.

00:29:56 ◼   ► - We are also sponsored this week by our friends

00:29:58 ◼   ► at lynda.com once again.

00:30:01 ◼   ► lynda.com, L-Y-N-D-A dot com helps you learn

00:30:04 ◼   ► and keep up to date with software,

00:30:06 ◼   ► pick up brand new skills, or explore new hobbies

00:30:08 ◼   ► with easy to follow, professionally produced video tutorials.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Whether you wanna learn a new programming language,

00:30:14 ◼   ► you can create a graceful user experience for your website,

00:30:17 ◼   ► or you can get your first code up and running

00:30:18 ◼   ► Objective-C, Lynda.com offers thousands of video courses in a variety of topics.

00:30:23 ◼   ► They have over 2,400 of these things with more added weekly.

00:30:26 ◼   ► These courses are professionally produced by industry experts at the top of their fields.

00:30:31 ◼   ► And the production value on this is great.

00:30:33 ◼   ► It's way better than what you get on YouTube or Google Admik searches or anything like

00:30:36 ◼   ► that.

00:30:37 ◼   ► You can follow along on the transcript on the side.

00:30:39 ◼   ► You can see what they're saying.

00:30:40 ◼   ► You can seek around in the transcript.

00:30:42 ◼   ► And now they also have an iPhone and iPad app optimized for iOS 7 and beyond, where

00:30:49 ◼   ► even in the app you can do all this stuff.

00:30:50 ◼   ► It's really fantastic.

00:30:51 ◼   ► You get all of this for one low monthly price of just $25 a month for unlimited access to

00:30:58 ◼   ► the entire lynda.com library.

00:31:01 ◼   ► Now they have courses on not only programming languages, web technology, stuff like that,

00:31:05 ◼   ► but also applications like the Adobe Creative Cloud Suite, Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, and

00:31:09 ◼   ► more.

00:31:10 ◼   ► help you stay current with updates to these things too. So you know a new version of Creative

00:31:15 ◼   ► Suite just came out, Creative Cloud excuse me, God, Adobe's names are really rough.

00:31:20 ◼   ► A new version of Creative Cloud 2014 just came out and you can go to lynda.com and you

00:31:25 ◼   ► can see what's new in these new products. You can learn how to prepare and print 3D

00:31:30 ◼   ► models with Photoshop. They have a 3D printing course. So you can do all the stuff. I've

00:31:34 ◼   ► used lynda.com myself to learn how to better edit podcasts and it has greatly helped. I'm

00:31:40 ◼   ► I'm very happy with their stuff,

00:31:41 ◼   ► and I'm always very impressed by their quality

00:31:43 ◼   ► and the material.

00:31:45 ◼   ► They have really specialized stuff on Logic

00:31:47 ◼   ► that you can go into like,

00:31:48 ◼   ► "All right, I wanna learn how to use

00:31:49 ◼   ► "the compressor in Logic."

00:31:50 ◼   ► And they have two courses just on the compressor in Logic.

00:31:53 ◼   ► But you can also do high-level stuff if you're a beginner,

00:31:55 ◼   ► if you're advanced, they have all the whole range covered.

00:31:58 ◼   ► So go to lynda.com/atp, that's L-Y-N-D-A dot com slash ATP,

00:32:03 ◼   ► and you can get a free seven-day trial.

00:32:07 ◼   ► And don't forget to check out their new iOS app

00:32:09 ◼   ► watch your courses. Once again, lynda.com, l-y-n-d-a dot com slash a-t-p. Thanks a lot

00:32:14 ◼   ► to Lynda for sponsoring again.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Do we want to do this biomedical stuff and follow up?

00:32:18 ◼   ► We should read it. It's brief. This is Ben Griffell who wrote it before, and he's correcting

00:32:23 ◼   ► himself, so I think that in that spirit…

00:32:25 ◼   ► He could have a podcast.

00:32:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:28 ◼   ► He could do follow-up.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm just going to read it because it's fairly concise. "There are a few

00:32:32 ◼   ► watches out there that can determine your heart rate optically using infrared light

00:32:35 ◼   ► shine through your skin.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Some reviews suggest this method works fairly well.

00:32:44 ◼   ► This changes the equation about what you can and can't do with the watches.

00:32:47 ◼   ► Long-term continuous heart rate monitoring becomes feasible, which can give you all kinds

00:32:50 ◼   ► of health information, including heart rate variability.

00:32:53 ◼   ► It also makes the process of getting continuous heart rate during exercise much more convenient.

00:32:57 ◼   ► However, a lot of my other points still stand.

00:33:00 ◼   ► The bigger is, what can you do with this information, and will people really care?

00:33:03 ◼   ► You can't use this information to diagnose or treat any conditions with FDA approval,

00:33:07 ◼   ► and studies still show that for most people this kind of data just becomes boring noise.

00:33:11 ◼   ► It might motivate some people to exercise in the short run, but long-term it just doesn't

00:33:14 ◼   ► happen.

00:33:15 ◼   ► This was a big point of his previous feedback that I didn't mention, like the idea that

00:33:18 ◼   ► Fitbit and those other kind of tracker things, it's kind of like a short-term boost, but

00:33:22 ◼   ► then people get bored of them and go back to their old habits.

00:33:24 ◼   ► Which I don't think that's a slam on Fitbit, that's true of all diet and exercise regimes

00:33:28 ◼   ► everyone eventually backslides, because that's the way people are.

00:33:33 ◼   ► So he says, "I just don't see this as a big field.

00:33:35 ◼   ► Easy to use home blood pressure monitors have been around for ages and they're not exactly

00:33:38 ◼   ► flying off the shelves."

00:33:40 ◼   ► The only thing I'll add to this, other than allowing him to do his self-follow-up to say

00:33:44 ◼   ► that he was wrong about not having a way to measure heart rate, is that...

00:33:49 ◼   ► Well, actually, let me read the second bit of follow-up, which is from a different person,

00:33:54 ◼   ► is also fairly short before I go for the other tangent.

00:33:57 ◼   ► This is from Josh Brock.

00:33:58 ◼   ► He says, "The doctor..."

00:33:59 ◼   ► This is the other person who gave feedback was a doctor, not...

00:34:02 ◼   ► We had a biomedical engineer and a doctor.

00:34:04 ◼   ► So this is Josh Brock addressing the doctor's points.

00:34:07 ◼   ► The doctor that was so pessimistic about the potential medical use of health book style

00:34:11 ◼   ► devices wasn't wrong, but he was thinking too narrowly.

00:34:14 ◼   ► While one day's worth of data probably isn't useful or interesting, having a year's worth

00:34:17 ◼   ► of prior data could be very useful.

00:34:19 ◼   ► Physicians frequently know very little about an individual's healthy vital signs or long-term

00:34:22 ◼   ► health.

00:34:24 ◼   ► Most healthy people only have their heart data monitored a few times a year at most.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Even people with serious health problems are typically only seen by a physician intermittently

00:34:30 ◼   ► and only fully monitored while actually in the hospital.

00:34:33 ◼   ► So being able to see a long history of data

00:34:36 ◼   ► with long-term trends could open up new opportunities

00:34:38 ◼   ► for diagnosis and treatment.

00:34:40 ◼   ► So this is what we talked about a little bit

00:34:42 ◼   ► in the last thing that while the information

00:34:45 ◼   ► may not be particularly interesting to you

00:34:46 ◼   ► or useful to you and may not vary that much,

00:34:49 ◼   ► it does, if you have long-term information

00:34:52 ◼   ► and your doctor can see that,

00:34:54 ◼   ► whether they're monitoring it in real time

00:34:55 ◼   ► or whether you just get dumped on them off of your phone

00:34:58 ◼   ► or a wrist thing, whatever,

00:35:00 ◼   ► It's kind of a better equivalent of the log books

00:35:03 ◼   ► that doctors have people keep

00:35:04 ◼   ► if they have chronic health conditions,

00:35:05 ◼   ► keeping a log of how they felt,

00:35:07 ◼   ► what they did in response to it,

00:35:09 ◼   ► what medications they took.

00:35:11 ◼   ► The doctors will look at that

00:35:12 ◼   ► because they just get to see you for a brief period of time

00:35:13 ◼   ► and what they wanna know is essentially your history

00:35:16 ◼   ► and you just verbally telling them what happened

00:35:18 ◼   ► is probably not that reliable.

00:35:20 ◼   ► You keeping a log book, probably more reliable,

00:35:23 ◼   ► but having a device monitor things for you is probably,

00:35:26 ◼   ► I mean, aside from bad reading and stuff like that,

00:35:28 ◼   ► the device's memory is gonna be better than yours.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And if it's something that you wear all the time,

00:35:32 ◼   ► I'm sure a doctor would love that

00:35:33 ◼   ► in addition to hearing what you had to say

00:35:35 ◼   ► about how you felt and what you did.

00:35:37 ◼   ► The point I wanted to get to

00:35:38 ◼   ► about these things not flying off the shelves

00:35:40 ◼   ► is that we keep talking about Apple and wearables

00:35:43 ◼   ► in terms of all the sensors they're gonna have

00:35:45 ◼   ► and whether it's gonna have a screen or not,

00:35:47 ◼   ► or whether the screen is gonna be a touchscreen or not,

00:35:48 ◼   ► or what kind of integration with the phone.

00:35:51 ◼   ► But one aspect of the wearables that we talked about

00:35:55 ◼   ► way back when that we haven't talked about much recently

00:35:57 ◼   ► is things you can use it for besides sensing your health

00:36:01 ◼   ► and integrating with your phone.

00:36:02 ◼   ► And one of the ones that I think should come back around

00:36:06 ◼   ► if it hasn't already in the rumor mill

00:36:08 ◼   ► is using it as a form of identity.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Didn't we talk about that like months

00:36:12 ◼   ► and months and months ago?

00:36:13 ◼   ► - Oh, I don't remember, probably.

00:36:14 ◼   ► - Having this thing on you as a way of identifying yourself,

00:36:19 ◼   ► sort of like the location-based unlocking thing

00:36:22 ◼   ► that the Apple patent was going around the news this week.

00:36:24 ◼   ► Like basically, if you pick up your phone,

00:36:27 ◼   ► you don't have to use touch ID to unlock it.

00:36:29 ◼   ► You don't have to enter a code

00:36:30 ◼   ► because you're wearing your wrist thing

00:36:31 ◼   ► and that identifies you as you.

00:36:32 ◼   ► And you walk up to your Mac, it unlocks the screen

00:36:34 ◼   ► because you're wearing the wrist thing

00:36:35 ◼   ► and that identifies you as you.

00:36:36 ◼   ► Sort of a touch ID without touching type of identity thing.

00:36:41 ◼   ► Because I think, not that I think this is a slam dunk

00:36:44 ◼   ► that this is what Apple's gonna do

00:36:45 ◼   ► with their wearable stuff,

00:36:46 ◼   ► but so much of the wearable stuff has been focused on,

00:36:49 ◼   ► ironically, not on timekeeping,

00:36:51 ◼   ► not on being able to tell what time it is,

00:36:53 ◼   ► But on saying this, something called a watch

00:36:55 ◼   ► and what it's gonna do is measure your vitals

00:36:57 ◼   ► and record them.

00:36:58 ◼   ► And that just seems weird to me

00:37:00 ◼   ► that it's such an incredible health focus.

00:37:02 ◼   ► I mean, maybe not that weird

00:37:04 ◼   ► 'cause Apple does have the health kit thing,

00:37:05 ◼   ► but they also have HomeKit

00:37:07 ◼   ► and no one is talking about using your wrist thing

00:37:08 ◼   ► as a way to turn on lights as you wander through your house

00:37:10 ◼   ► or open your garage door as you drive up or whatever.

00:37:13 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Just throwing that out there

00:37:16 ◼   ► so we can get in every possibility

00:37:18 ◼   ► before Apple releases something that's wearable

00:37:20 ◼   ► and then we can say, "See, we talked about that

00:37:22 ◼   ► on some show in the past.

00:37:24 ◼   ► - To me this is like yet another thing

00:37:26 ◼   ► that is not a very compelling justification

00:37:29 ◼   ► for these devices to exist.

00:37:30 ◼   ► It's like yet another thing where, okay,

00:37:32 ◼   ► well first of all, there are some security issues with that.

00:37:35 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:37:36 ◼   ► There's also some creepiness issues

00:37:38 ◼   ► if this becomes your identity.

00:37:40 ◼   ► And I don't know, it solves problems

00:37:43 ◼   ► that most people I don't think really have

00:37:46 ◼   ► in ways that are substantial enough

00:37:48 ◼   ► where the gains will be big enough

00:37:50 ◼   ► that it would be worth having another thing

00:37:52 ◼   ► to maintain, buy, and charge.

00:37:54 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, you assume there would be some combination.

00:37:56 ◼   ► But what did you think about that patent, though,

00:37:58 ◼   ► for the location-based thing?

00:37:59 ◼   ► Basically, not having to enter your unlock code

00:38:01 ◼   ► or use Touch ID when you're in your house with your phone

00:38:02 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:38:03 ◼   ► Is that something you think is worthwhile?

00:38:05 ◼   ► - Oh, hell yeah.

00:38:06 ◼   ► I'm already using that with my Mac,

00:38:07 ◼   ► with Control Plane, Control P-L-A-N-E.

00:38:11 ◼   ► If I remember, we'll put a link in the show notes.

00:38:13 ◼   ► But I think the slogan they use is context-aware computing,

00:38:19 ◼   ► Which I may have talked about in the past on the show, but supposed to say based on

00:38:23 ◼   ► like the network address I have based on what device, what external monitor I'm

00:38:28 ◼   ► connected to based on what Bluetooth devices are nearby, this thing will

00:38:32 ◼   ► basically perform, perform a series of macros to turn on or off my screen

00:38:38 ◼   ► saver password, or to set a default printer or things like that.

00:38:42 ◼   ► And it's wonderful.

00:38:43 ◼   ► And I love it because when I come home after work, It will automatically

00:38:47 ◼   ► figure out, Oh, he's at home now.

00:38:48 ◼   ► Well, let me turn off VMware Fusion.

00:38:50 ◼   ► Let me turn off Outlook.

00:38:51 ◼   ► Let me turn off Link, which has probably crashed anyway,

00:38:54 ◼   ► and so on.

00:38:55 ◼   ► And it's wonderful.

00:38:56 ◼   ► And I really love it.

00:38:57 ◼   ► And I'd love to have that for my phone.

00:38:59 ◼   ► And Marco, you talked about that not being a particularly

00:39:01 ◼   ► compelling benefit.

00:39:02 ◼   ► In and of itself, perhaps not.

00:39:03 ◼   ► But just think of how life-changing

00:39:05 ◼   ► it was when you all got proximity

00:39:06 ◼   ► keys for your fancy German cars, right?

00:39:08 ◼   ► And how you don't want to go back to having to fish out

00:39:11 ◼   ► a key and stick it-- you know, like, it's not that big a deal.

00:39:15 ◼   ► But it's a big enough deal that you have trouble

00:39:17 ◼   ► going back to that type of thing.

00:39:19 ◼   ► And if you are in, you know, it's kind of like Touch ID.

00:39:22 ◼   ► Like I'm a pretty big Touch ID convert, despite the fact that I don't have a Touch ID device.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Every time I pick up my wife's phone, I don't even know her security code thing.

00:39:30 ◼   ► I just have my one thumb encoded on the thing, and I have a very high success rate with Touch

00:39:35 ◼   ► ID.

00:39:36 ◼   ► And it's much better than me having to ask her where her code is and then never remembering

00:39:40 ◼   ► it the next time or have her unlock the thing or whatever.

00:39:42 ◼   ► I just pick it up and use the Touch thing.

00:39:44 ◼   ► If I'm not gonna say this is a reason I'm gonna wear a thing around my wrist

00:39:48 ◼   ► But presumably there's other reasons that you're gonna wear whatever this wearable thing is if this is there on top of everything else

00:39:54 ◼   ► Like I would definitely use it. I'm sick of typing in my password to unlock my screen at work. I think it's ridiculous

00:40:00 ◼   ► I mean you have to have a screen lock because you know corporate policies or whatever every time I get up

00:40:04 ◼   ► I I lock the screen dutifully and I have to unlock it when I come back no matter how long I'm gone

00:40:08 ◼   ► I would love to have a thing on my wrist. I would wear it at work just for this one feature, you know

00:40:14 ◼   ► But I don't think I would buy it just for this one feature.

00:40:17 ◼   ► So anyway, Apple has to come up with a reason

00:40:19 ◼   ► for us to all buy this thing and keep it charged

00:40:22 ◼   ► and all that good stuff.

00:40:23 ◼   ► This is just another possible thing

00:40:24 ◼   ► because I definitely wouldn't buy it to track my vitals.

00:40:27 ◼   ► So that is also not compelling to me.

00:40:29 ◼   ► I don't know, it's gotta do something.

00:40:32 ◼   ► Or it could just be another thing

00:40:33 ◼   ► that Apple introduces that I don't buy, so.

00:40:36 ◼   ► - Add it to the list.

00:40:38 ◼   ► Our final sponsor this week is Backblaze once again.

00:40:43 ◼   ► Backblaze unlimited, unthrottled, uncomplicated

00:40:46 ◼   ► online backup that's available anywhere.

00:40:49 ◼   ► You can try it for free with no credit card required.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Backblaze is Mac native, it was founded

00:40:54 ◼   ► by ex-Apple engineers, and it's really,

00:40:57 ◼   ► I've used it for a long time.

00:41:00 ◼   ► In fact, it kind of saved my butt,

00:41:01 ◼   ► well, in a really trivial way,

00:41:03 ◼   ► but it saved my butt yesterday.

00:41:05 ◼   ► I was at my mom's house for the day,

00:41:07 ◼   ► and I wanted to listen to a certain album over Airplay

00:41:10 ◼   ► to show her that AirPlay exists on her Apple TV.

00:41:13 ◼   ► And I didn't have that album on my laptop,

00:41:17 ◼   ► and iTunes Match, as usual, was failing for me,

00:41:20 ◼   ► and just not even showing that it even existed,

00:41:22 ◼   ► so I couldn't download it through iTunes Match.

00:41:24 ◼   ► So I went to Backblaze, and I pulled it off my computer.

00:41:27 ◼   ► There, I did a web restore of just that directory,

00:41:29 ◼   ► and downloaded it right there, and then I had the album.

00:41:31 ◼   ► Perfect, good as new.

00:41:33 ◼   ► So Backblaze, this online backup, it's so good.

00:41:37 ◼   ► I can't tell you enough how useful online backup is,

00:41:40 ◼   ► and how smart it is, if you have the upstream to support it,

00:41:44 ◼   ► if you can upload what you need to back up

00:41:47 ◼   ► within two months, I would say do it.

00:41:50 ◼   ► It's that good.

00:41:51 ◼   ► So $5 a month buys you unlimited storage on Backblaze

00:41:57 ◼   ► and it's un-throttled, I've been able to upload

00:41:59 ◼   ► at ridiculous speeds, whatever my internet connection

00:42:01 ◼   ► will allow and whatever I set my throttling settings to

00:42:04 ◼   ► in their app, it'll upload at those speeds.

00:42:06 ◼   ► I can't say the same thing about other services.

00:42:08 ◼   ► I tried them before and a lot of times it would throttle me

00:42:11 ◼   ► and it would slow me down to like one megabit up

00:42:13 ◼   ► and would have taken months and yeah, bad experiences there.

00:42:17 ◼   ► Backblades have never had problems like that.

00:42:18 ◼   ► It's always been rock solid.

00:42:20 ◼   ► I've never done a full restore, fortunately I've never had to

00:42:22 ◼   ► but I've done many partial restores

00:42:25 ◼   ► and it's always been great, always reliable

00:42:27 ◼   ► and really I can't recommend it enough.

00:42:31 ◼   ► Once again, $5 a month, there's no add-ons,

00:42:34 ◼   ► there's no gimmicks, there's nothing complicated about it.

00:42:36 ◼   ► Just five bucks a month.

00:42:37 ◼   ► In fact, you can even pay less if you buy a whole year

00:42:40 ◼   ► from what I do.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Go to backblaze.com/atp to learn more.

00:42:46 ◼   ► Again, I can't recommend this enough.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Backblaze.com/atp for unlimited, unthrottled,

00:42:51 ◼   ► uncomplicated online backup, just five bucks a month.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Backblaze for sponsoring once again.

00:42:57 ◼   ► - Have we ever gone through all three sponsors

00:43:00 ◼   ► during followup?

00:43:01 ◼   ► 'Cause we still have a little bit more.

00:43:03 ◼   ► I feel like we're in hypercritical right now.

00:43:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, actually Tiff and I went back and listened

00:43:08 ◼   ► to the Hypercritical on the first episode

00:43:11 ◼   ► on game controllers, I believe they were two and a half,

00:43:13 ◼   ► but we went back and listened to that

00:43:16 ◼   ► on the way up to my mom's house yesterday.

00:43:18 ◼   ► And when we pulled into her driveway,

00:43:22 ◼   ► we were just finishing follow-up.

00:43:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:25 ◼   ► It was like 70 minutes in.

00:43:27 ◼   ► - That's magnificent.

00:43:28 ◼   ► So we have one last piece of follow-up,

00:43:29 ◼   ► which is about the death of plasma.

00:43:31 ◼   ► And I actually might have some thoughts on this,

00:43:34 ◼   ► but Jon, go ahead.

00:43:35 ◼   ► It's not really the death of Plasma because I think LG is still making Plasmas unless

00:43:39 ◼   ► I'm not mistaken.

00:43:40 ◼   ► But anyway, the story that was going around this past week was that Samsung is stopping

00:43:44 ◼   ► production of its Plasma TVs.

00:43:46 ◼   ► Panasonic already stopped production of their Plasma TVs.

00:43:50 ◼   ► After Panasonic stopped, it's like, "Well, they were the best ones, but you can still

00:43:52 ◼   ► buy Samsung."

00:43:53 ◼   ► So those were the second best.

00:43:54 ◼   ► Buy that instead.

00:43:55 ◼   ► I think the Wirecutter updated their TV review things.

00:43:58 ◼   ► They had previously recommended Panasonic Plasmas and eventually had to say, "Well,

00:44:02 ◼   ► you can't get those anymore."

00:44:04 ◼   ► So our next choice is the Samsung Plasmas.

00:44:08 ◼   ► Now they're going to have to update it again because now Samsung's not going to be making

00:44:10 ◼   ► them anymore.

00:44:11 ◼   ► Like I said, I think maybe LG is.

00:44:13 ◼   ► But yeah, the days of Plasma are going.

00:44:15 ◼   ► There's a bunch of stories going around the web about mourning the end of Plasma.

00:44:18 ◼   ► A lot of them were retreads of when Panasonic stopped.

00:44:21 ◼   ► For all the people who care about picture quality, saying basically, "These TVs that

00:44:25 ◼   ► are discontinuing have better picture quality than any TVs that have been introduced after

00:44:32 ◼   ► them or that you can buy for any price anywhere, which is a shame. And again, plasmas do have

00:44:36 ◼   ► their downsides. We talked about them on past shows. They're not perfect. But if you care

00:44:39 ◼   ► about picture quality, many people are willing to put up with their downsides in exchange for

00:44:44 ◼   ► having a better picture. It doesn't surprise me for the reasons I think we talked about in past

00:44:48 ◼   ► shows. Nobody was putting in the money to try to make a 4K plasma, and 4K is clearly the future as

00:44:54 ◼   ► far as television manufacturers are concerned anyway. It may not even be technically possible

00:44:59 ◼   ► to make a reasonable plasma at 4K because the size of the little, whatever you call

00:45:04 ◼   ► it, the little pits or thingies that make the picture images are so tiny at 4K that

00:45:09 ◼   ► we don't really have manufacturing processes.

00:45:11 ◼   ► I mean, they could develop it, but we already have 4K in LCDs and even OLED, which was supposed

00:45:18 ◼   ► to save us from the scourge of LCD, that's kind of been back-burned as well.

00:45:22 ◼   ► So it seems like we're just going to be LCD with LED backlights, standard high-definition,

00:45:29 ◼   ► and 4K for the foreseeable future, which is kind of a shame, but I'm glad I brought my

00:45:35 ◼   ► Panasonic when I did, and I just hope it lasts a long time.

00:45:38 ◼   ► Did you ever even think about a 4K TV?

00:45:42 ◼   ► No.

00:45:43 ◼   ► I mean, there's no content available for it that I care about.

00:45:47 ◼   ► And really, there is something to be said about screen size and viewing distance.

00:45:52 ◼   ► And 720, 1080, I can kind of tell the difference between my seating distance.

00:45:59 ◼   ► 4K, I don't know, I mean, if the content was good enough, maybe I could tell the difference,

00:46:04 ◼   ► but nothing I care about is in 4K.

00:46:07 ◼   ► Everything I care about is in HD, and I figure by the time things that I care about are in

00:46:10 ◼   ► 4K, it will be time for me to get a new TV in several years.

00:46:13 ◼   ► But I don't know how long that's going to take.

00:46:15 ◼   ► I mean, 4K is a tougher sell than...

00:46:18 ◼   ► Standard F to HD is a more compelling consumer case than HD to 4K.

00:46:23 ◼   ► So it's up to content creators and television manufacturers to convince us that we need

00:46:28 ◼   ► to go from 1080p to 4K.

00:46:32 ◼   ► It was-- and look how difficult it was to convince

00:46:34 ◼   ► us to go from standard def.

00:46:35 ◼   ► And I think that was just like, as soon as someone

00:46:37 ◼   ► sees a high definition television,

00:46:39 ◼   ► if they have good vision or if they're

00:46:41 ◼   ► into sports or something else where you care

00:46:43 ◼   ► about small details, that's a pretty easy sell.

00:46:46 ◼   ► But 4K, I don't know.

00:46:48 ◼   ► I mean, I guess maybe--

00:46:49 ◼   ► I haven't been to CES and seen the fanciest new 4K TVs.

00:46:55 ◼   ► I haven't seen an OLED 4K TV of those things exist.

00:46:59 ◼   ► So maybe they're more convincing, but I figure I have many years of service left in this

00:47:04 ◼   ► plasma.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Well, I tend to agree.

00:47:06 ◼   ► And the reason I ask is my parents have just recently moved down to pretty close to where

00:47:11 ◼   ► Aaron and I are.

00:47:12 ◼   ► And so a couple of weeks ago, my dad and I went to a Crutchfield store, which those of

00:47:17 ◼   ► you who were into car audio in the '90s probably know what Crutchfield is.

00:47:21 ◼   ► And their home office is in Charlottesville, which I brought up periodically on the show.

00:47:25 ◼   ► Well, anyway, we went to the store and looked at a few 4K TVs and we were looking for mom and dad's house

00:47:31 ◼   ► Which the viewing distance or the seating distance what have you it's like 15 feet or something like that for where this is going to be

00:47:38 ◼   ► and I

00:47:40 ◼   ► Looked at these 4k displays a lot of which were curved by the way, which I don't really understand

00:47:46 ◼   ► The whole curved TV thing. Maybe maybe there's a point but I don't get it. But anyways the 4k displays

00:47:52 ◼   ► I mean they looked beautiful when you were a foot or two away, but I completely agree at 5, 10, certainly 10 and

00:47:58 ◼   ► definitely 15 feet, I

00:48:01 ◼   ► don't get it. And I'm maybe in five or ten years when content is available, I will get it. But today I agree with you,

00:48:09 ◼   ► I don't understand.

00:48:10 ◼   ► Well if you can make the screen the size of your wall or something like that because we have some if we have some technology

00:48:15 ◼   ► that could you know or projectors or whatever like

00:48:18 ◼   ► 4k has a place because eventually the screen becomes way way bigger, but for television set size screens

00:48:24 ◼   ► Where it's like a thing that's sitting on

00:48:27 ◼   ► You know some kind of pedestal or something

00:48:30 ◼   ► it I

00:48:33 ◼   ► Don't know 4k like I think a lot of it has to do with the content

00:48:36 ◼   ► What kind of things are you trying to show but at a certain point?

00:48:39 ◼   ► It's like when people get old their vision gets bad

00:48:41 ◼   ► You can't make out that kind of detail on a screen

00:48:45 ◼   ► that's only like, you know, 50, 60, 70 inches, and that's a pretty big modern TV.

00:48:50 ◼   ► But in the movie theater, when the screen is gigantic, then, yeah, that resolution,

00:48:55 ◼   ► you know, can be useful.

00:48:56 ◼   ► Well, that's the thing, is we're looking at these, like, 70, 75-inch TVs, and, yeah,

00:49:01 ◼   ► I mean, you can maybe make out a difference, and to be fair, my eyes are not the best.

00:49:06 ◼   ► But certainly, at the 10 or 15 feet that Mom and Dad's house's viewing distance is at,

00:49:12 ◼   ► I do not see the need, even in like a 75-inch TV,

00:49:17 ◼   ► I don't see the need for 4K.

00:49:18 ◼   ► And the other thing is, and you just mentioned this,

00:49:21 ◼   ► we talked to the salespeople both at Crutchfield

00:49:24 ◼   ► and at Best Buy, and we were like,

00:49:25 ◼   ► so what content is 4K these days?

00:49:27 ◼   ► 'Cause this is well out of my wheelhouse,

00:49:29 ◼   ► and I don't keep up with this stuff.

00:49:31 ◼   ► And so they're like, well, some stuff on Netflix.

00:49:36 ◼   ► And that's about it.

00:49:37 ◼   ► And that's about all you get.

00:49:38 ◼   ► - And even like what device can output 4K?

00:49:41 ◼   ► - Right, exactly.

00:49:43 ◼   ► - I mean, well, I guess the TV could have it built in.

00:49:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, like my, for example,

00:49:46 ◼   ► my audio video receiver has 4K passthrough.

00:49:49 ◼   ► Like a lot of devices are 4K capable at this point.

00:49:51 ◼   ► So in theory, if I was getting Netflix at 4K

00:49:54 ◼   ► on a device, they could get out, but 4K,

00:49:57 ◼   ► could, you know, the pieces are there

00:49:59 ◼   ► that it's possible to view it.

00:50:00 ◼   ► That's why Netflix is running these kind of experiments.

00:50:03 ◼   ► The topically named Pan and Scan in the chat room

00:50:05 ◼   ► has a point where 4K isn't just about resolution,

00:50:09 ◼   ► but also, you know, we talked about this before,

00:50:11 ◼   ► color depth and refresh rates and other parts of the 4K standard that are a step up from

00:50:16 ◼   ► HD.

00:50:19 ◼   ► I think they're even less compelling to consumers, but as an image quality nerd, maybe that's

00:50:26 ◼   ► why I would notice more.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Yeah, on my small-ish, by projector standards, 55-inch TV, the resolution difference wouldn't

00:50:34 ◼   ► be that big, but the color gamut difference could be significant, assuming we get some

00:50:39 ◼   ► kind of television technology that has reasonable black levels. So yeah anyway I

00:50:44 ◼   ► don't think it's in the imminent future which is why I felt entirely safe buying

00:50:47 ◼   ► a plain old normal high-definition television last year or whenever I bought

00:50:51 ◼   ► this thing. Cool. All right. Do we have any topics today? Any other follow-up? Is this it?

00:50:58 ◼   ► Are we done? Is this the show? Is this what people tune in for? So we saw a

00:51:03 ◼   ► a YouTube video from somebody who I am not familiar with,

00:51:08 ◼   ► who seems to have an iPhone 6 sapphire display.

00:51:15 ◼   ► What do we think about this?

00:51:17 ◼   ► - I mean, it's very impressive.

00:51:19 ◼   ► Regardless of whether, there's a bunch of things

00:51:22 ◼   ► we don't know.

00:51:23 ◼   ► The big two are, we don't know if this is actually

00:51:26 ◼   ► an iPhone part or a part for something else

00:51:28 ◼   ► or a fake or something else, and we also don't know

00:51:31 ◼   ► whether it's actually sapphire.

00:51:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was gonna be my big point.

00:51:34 ◼   ► - Those are the two big ones that we don't know.

00:51:35 ◼   ► - My big point, that's why I put sapphire in quotes,

00:51:38 ◼   ► because I have no idea if that's sapphire or not.

00:51:42 ◼   ► Maybe a Gorilla Glass of that exact same thickness

00:51:44 ◼   ► behaves in the exact same way.

00:51:46 ◼   ► I don't know, I've never taken a piece of Gorilla Glass

00:51:48 ◼   ► and tried to bend it or stab it with a knife.

00:51:50 ◼   ► So I have no idea if this is impressive at all,

00:51:52 ◼   ► or if that's exactly what all existing phones are like now.

00:51:56 ◼   ► And I don't know how they would tell.

00:51:57 ◼   ► I don't blame the person for not doing due diligence

00:51:59 ◼   ► or whatever, it's like, I don't know how you would tell

00:52:01 ◼   ► with sapphire, like a spectrometer or something.

00:52:04 ◼   ► - Whatever is being shown in the video,

00:52:06 ◼   ► whether or not it's a real iPhone part

00:52:08 ◼   ► and whether or not it's actually sapphire,

00:52:10 ◼   ► does seem to have impressive physical characteristics

00:52:12 ◼   ► and does seem to have very good resistance

00:52:14 ◼   ► to both scratching and bending.

00:52:16 ◼   ► I don't know enough about either of these things

00:52:20 ◼   ► to say whether that's likely to be

00:52:22 ◼   ► a fancy Gorilla Glass product or sapphire,

00:52:25 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:52:26 ◼   ► - Well, whatever it is, it's a laminate, obviously.

00:52:27 ◼   ► I mean, like, even if it was sapphire,

00:52:29 ◼   ► what they mean is that Sapphire laminated against something else that's flexible laminate.

00:52:33 ◼   ► Like it's obviously some kind of laminate because you can't, I don't know if the glass

00:52:37 ◼   ► ones are, maybe the grill glass is not a laminate, but anything with Sapphire I think would have

00:52:41 ◼   ► to be some kind of laminate if you're using the screen.

00:52:43 ◼   ► But I think the most interesting thing about this, even if you assume this is entirely

00:52:46 ◼   ► fake is that it shows, I mean they didn't measure it, I wish they had measured it, but

00:52:50 ◼   ► it shows a 4.7 inch thing presumably next to a regular iPhone to give you kind of a

00:52:55 ◼   ► size comparison of like, well, it's bigger, it's not gigantic, but it does seem, it's

00:53:00 ◼   ► definitely noticeably bigger.

00:53:02 ◼   ► And they, I think they tried to show like a fake image on what the screen would look

00:53:06 ◼   ► like, but they used the same number of icons as if the res was just scaled up.

00:53:10 ◼   ► So I'm not sure what they were, but I put this in a category in the topics of iPhone

00:53:15 ◼   ► 6 parts leaks.

00:53:16 ◼   ► I haven't been pursuing parts leaks, but there's tons of them all.

00:53:18 ◼   ► This is just the one I happened to see because it bubbled up in my feed.

00:53:21 ◼   ► And to be fair, about half of them are this part.

00:53:23 ◼   ► Yeah, and all sorts of leaks.

00:53:25 ◼   ► And this guy also had a mock-up of what he thought the back could look like based on

00:53:28 ◼   ► all of the leaked specs and leaked drawings.

00:53:33 ◼   ► As is the case with most of the past iPhones, all these leaks, as the parts start to come

00:53:39 ◼   ► out, I would think the idea that it's going to be kind of rounded on the back, kind of

00:53:44 ◼   ► like the iPad Mini is, and they're going to be bigger, and 4.7 keeps coming up, and this

00:53:50 ◼   ► thing if it's 4.7 inches is, you know, reasonable odds that it could be a part of some kind.

00:53:56 ◼   ► We're starting to get close to the season where we start to see things that are real.

00:53:59 ◼   ► So I don't entirely discount this either.

00:54:02 ◼   ► I just thought it was interesting that it's not just, here's a picture of the part, take

00:54:06 ◼   ► a look at it, like the torture test type phenomenon.

00:54:09 ◼   ► I would like to see someone do that as soon as the iPhone 6 comes out, take apart an actual

00:54:13 ◼   ► iPhone 6 and do the same experiments, do the same experiments with the 5S or whatever.

00:54:17 ◼   ► where I guess this starts getting expensive,

00:54:18 ◼   ► but maybe the iFixit people could tackle it,

00:54:20 ◼   ► because I really don't know the properties

00:54:22 ◼   ► of the existing parts for iPhones.

00:54:26 ◼   ► - You know, I think it's very likely

00:54:27 ◼   ► this probably is a real iPhone part.

00:54:31 ◼   ► The timing is right, it matches all the things we've heard

00:54:33 ◼   ► from general rumor, voting, it's matching all the stuff.

00:54:38 ◼   ► It is very likely to be a real iPhone part.

00:54:40 ◼   ► The big question mark is whether it's actually Sapphire,

00:54:42 ◼   ► and you're right, whether if you took the same part

00:54:46 ◼   ► or the closest similar part,

00:54:48 ◼   ► the cover glass of an iPhone 5S,

00:54:51 ◼   ► and did the same things, how would it react?

00:54:53 ◼   ► What would it withstand?

00:54:54 ◼   ► Would it be similar or not?

00:54:56 ◼   ► The scratch resistance is one thing,

00:54:59 ◼   ► but I think the real problem that needs to be solved

00:55:04 ◼   ► in iPhone cover glass, if it's possible to easily solve it,

00:55:07 ◼   ► is not bending, it's shatter resistance.

00:55:10 ◼   ► Like what happens if you drop it on a corner?

00:55:14 ◼   ► Does the glass shatter as easily

00:55:16 ◼   ► or does it shatter less often?

00:55:19 ◼   ► That's the problem people usually have.

00:55:20 ◼   ► If they can improve that, that's big news.

00:55:24 ◼   ► One thing to consider, and I don't know if this,

00:55:28 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm talking about

00:55:29 ◼   ► with manufacturing stuff, so who knows,

00:55:30 ◼   ► but if they're gonna use Sapphire

00:55:33 ◼   ► for the screen glass of all the new iPhones,

00:55:38 ◼   ► the two new sizes, and backing up a second,

00:55:40 ◼   ► there was on the talk show a couple of weeks ago,

00:55:44 ◼   ► Gruber had Paul Kifasas on and they were talking

00:55:46 ◼   ► and they were both kind of agreeing that

00:55:48 ◼   ► they didn't actually want a 4.7 inch phone

00:55:50 ◼   ► to be the new smallest size,

00:55:52 ◼   ► that they both are perfectly fine with the current five size

00:55:55 ◼   ► and don't want it to get any bigger.

00:55:57 ◼   ► And so the question, if you believe that line of thinking,

00:56:00 ◼   ► is, okay, well, is there a new four inch phone

00:56:05 ◼   ► and a new 4.7 inch and a new 5.5 inch?

00:56:08 ◼   ► The question is, is there a new four inch phone or not?

00:56:12 ◼   ► And I think the answer is very simple.

00:56:14 ◼   ► for anyone still doubting this.

00:56:15 ◼   ► I think the answer is 4.7 will be the new small size, period.

00:56:20 ◼   ► And maybe there might be like a 6S or a 6C

00:56:24 ◼   ► that still uses the four inch size,

00:56:25 ◼   ► but that's gonna be phased out in the next new model lines

00:56:28 ◼   ► as the big size goes down in the line.

00:56:31 ◼   ► I think 4.7 is the new size,

00:56:33 ◼   ► and we're gonna have a handful of people saying,

00:56:35 ◼   ► "No, I want my phone to stay small."

00:56:37 ◼   ► And it's gonna be the exact same thing that happened

00:56:39 ◼   ► when they went from three and a half inch

00:56:41 ◼   ► to four inch with the five.

00:56:42 ◼   ► there's gonna be those handful of people that say,

00:56:44 ◼   ► "No, I don't want the phone to be any bigger than this."

00:56:47 ◼   ► And a new one will come out, it won't be that much bigger,

00:56:50 ◼   ► and it won't be a big deal,

00:56:51 ◼   ► and it'll probably even be thinner and lighter,

00:56:53 ◼   ► and so everyone will just deal with it,

00:56:55 ◼   ► and everyone will forget about their complaints

00:56:57 ◼   ► within six months, and that'll just be the new size.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Anyway, going back to the beginning

00:57:01 ◼   ► of this massive paragraph,

00:57:03 ◼   ► if they're gonna use Sapphire for the screens

00:57:07 ◼   ► of these new phones, that's a lot of Sapphire.

00:57:11 ◼   ► it's really hard to properly communicate

00:57:15 ◼   ► how much they have to make of this stuff.

00:57:17 ◼   ► Just materials, supply-wise, like manufacturing.

00:57:21 ◼   ► They make so many iPhones.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Anything that goes into the iPhone

00:57:25 ◼   ► has to be available in quantity.

00:57:28 ◼   ► It has to have very high manufacturing yields,

00:57:30 ◼   ► very high consistency, easily sourced.

00:57:34 ◼   ► And I don't know if,

00:57:36 ◼   ► I know they have that big Sapphire thing

00:57:37 ◼   ► in Arizona or wherever,

00:57:38 ◼   ► but it would surprise me if they could make enough sapphire

00:57:42 ◼   ► all of a sudden to be able to be the glass on every iPhone.

00:57:46 ◼   ► - Well, like I said, I think it's a laminate

00:57:48 ◼   ► and it could be some deposition process.

00:57:49 ◼   ► Again, I don't know anything about the manufacturing,

00:57:51 ◼   ► but I think it's within the realm of reason

00:57:56 ◼   ► that they could, because you're only putting the sapphire

00:57:59 ◼   ► there for scratch resistance.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Sapphire's not giving you anything in terms of bend

00:58:02 ◼   ► or shadow resistance, I would imagine.

00:58:05 ◼   ► But anyway, I don't think you have to make

00:58:06 ◼   ► the whole thing out of it.

00:58:07 ◼   ► I think it just needs to be the surface coating.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Like it's hardness is this thing

00:58:11 ◼   ► and then you back it by other materials,

00:58:12 ◼   ► whether they be, you know, gorilla glass

00:58:14 ◼   ► or some thin piece of plastic or something like that.

00:58:18 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:58:21 ◼   ► If they keep saying it's Sapphire,

00:58:22 ◼   ► if everybody's saying it's Sapphire,

00:58:25 ◼   ► I don't know how they can tell.

00:58:27 ◼   ► I don't think anyone is measuring it.

00:58:29 ◼   ► I'm sure we'll know as soon as Apple introduces it

00:58:31 ◼   ► because if it's Sapphire, I'm sure they will emphasize that.

00:58:34 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, definitely.

00:58:35 ◼   ► I just I was stunned by the

00:58:37 ◼   ► Bend resistance. I don't know if that's the right word

00:58:41 ◼   ► I'm looking for but the the way in which this handled bending which may or may not have anything to do with sapphire

00:58:46 ◼   ► But my goodness this thing was bent a lot and didn't crack and certainly the scratch resistance was incredible

00:58:55 ◼   ► But the the dude in the video noted that he didn't really have an appropriate way to test

00:59:02 ◼   ► Dropping it on a corner, which is what you guys brought up a minute ago because he didn't have the rest of an iPhone

00:59:07 ◼   ► To mount this thing against but I agree that that's the real test because pretty much anyone

00:59:13 ◼   ► I know with an issue with their iPhone display or

00:59:16 ◼   ► Android display for that matter is because they've dropped it in some way and it shattered

00:59:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I've seen scratches on screens too like little nicks or whatever

00:59:24 ◼   ► But I've seen like it's hard to notice them because they're small what you notice is the person using a phone with an actual crack

00:59:30 ◼   ► in it.

00:59:31 ◼   ► And no one is ever going to bend their screen like that, because if you bend it that much,

00:59:34 ◼   ► the rest of the phone is broken now.

00:59:35 ◼   ► It doesn't matter if the screen can bend that much.

00:59:38 ◼   ► The printed circuit board can't bend that much.

00:59:40 ◼   ► And so if you ever bend your phone that much, it's dead.

00:59:43 ◼   ► But if you drop your phone into the concrete and it lands on a corner or smacks face down

00:59:46 ◼   ► and it shatters, then you have the choice of getting the screen replaced or just sitting

00:59:51 ◼   ► there as I see so many people doing and swiping their thumbs across fractured pieces of glass

00:59:56 ◼   ► just to make you think they're going to cut themselves.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Or you just spend 15 bucks at the Apple store

01:00:00 ◼   ► and get one of those horrible stick-on screen protectors

01:00:03 ◼   ► and just hope that covers it up enough.

01:00:05 ◼   ► Might even hold it together a little bit.

01:00:07 ◼   ► - All right, anything else on the iPhone 6?

01:00:10 ◼   ► Oh, I should note, I'll answer my own question.

01:00:13 ◼   ► I agree with both Gruber and Kefasis

01:00:15 ◼   ► in that I don't want a bigger iPhone,

01:00:17 ◼   ► but I think you're right, Marco,

01:00:18 ◼   ► that the 4.7 or whatever, the smaller of the new ones

01:00:23 ◼   ► I think will be the smallest high-end iPhone.

01:00:28 ◼   ► And I think I can get behind a 4.7,

01:00:31 ◼   ► but goodness, this 5 or 5.5 or whatever it was,

01:00:35 ◼   ► I do not want that in my life.

01:00:39 ◼   ► That just seems like a darn tablet.

01:00:41 ◼   ► - I'm gonna have a very hard time choosing between the two

01:00:45 ◼   ► if the screen size is the only substantial difference.

01:00:47 ◼   ► You know, if there's something else,

01:00:49 ◼   ► if there's rumors that the camera might be different,

01:00:51 ◼   ► if the camera is substantially better

01:00:53 ◼   ► one or the other, I will almost certainly get the one with the better camera.

01:00:56 ◼   ► I can't imagine, just marketing wise, it would be very strange if the biggest one wasn't

01:01:01 ◼   ► the best one.

01:01:03 ◼   ► And so chances are the biggest iPhone, whether it's called the iPhone Air, the iPhone 6

01:01:11 ◼   ► Plus, whatever, the five and a half inch iPhone if it's real, it's very likely to have

01:01:15 ◼   ► the best of everything that Apple has to offer.

01:01:17 ◼   ► And so it's very likely that some of us are going to convince ourselves to buy it.

01:01:20 ◼   ► If the best one is the huge one, then I'll probably try it.

01:01:24 ◼   ► And I'll take the bullet for all of us.

01:01:25 ◼   ► I know, Jon, you're not going to buy anything.

01:01:27 ◼   ► And Casey, you're going to stick with the small one, or you're going to wait two years

01:01:30 ◼   ► and I can make fun of you.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:01:33 ◼   ► I'm in and off here this year, so I've got another year to wait.

01:01:36 ◼   ► Do we have parts leaks for the 5.5, rumored 5.5 inch?

01:01:41 ◼   ► That's a good question.

01:01:42 ◼   ► And still I see some parts leaks for that.

01:01:43 ◼   ► I continue to think that, as Casey said, diversification, fine, but a new 4.7 size, why don't you just

01:01:50 ◼   ► while keeping around the old 5S in a different case or whatever, or even in the same case,

01:01:55 ◼   ► that's reasonable diversification. I'm not sure they need a 5.5. Maybe they're going

01:01:59 ◼   ► to have one? Who knows? But I would like to see parts leaks for that. Because more or

01:02:04 ◼   ► less I want to see what it looks like proportion wise and line up all three of them and show

01:02:09 ◼   ► them next to a hand and see what that would be like.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I don't feel like I have, and I think I've said this before, I don't feel like I have

01:02:16 ◼   ► that much excess pocket space in order to stuff a five and a half inch phone.

01:02:21 ◼   ► And for those of us who leave the house, ahem everyone but Marco, uh, that's

01:02:27 ◼   ► kind of an issue and I don't, I don't have a purse, I don't have a man purse.

01:02:33 ◼   ► And so my phone lives in my pocket and I don't think I want a five and a

01:02:39 ◼   ► half inch phone in my pocket.

01:02:40 ◼   ► I just don't.

01:02:41 ◼   ► But whatever.

01:02:43 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Remind me of this when I buy one in a year and a half or whatever, but sitting here today,

01:02:48 ◼   ► I don't think I want that in my life.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Harrys, Lynda.com, and Backblaze, and we will

01:02:57 ◼   ► see you next week.

01:02:59 ◼   ► Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, 'cause it was accidental, oh it

01:03:10 ◼   ► was accidental.

01:03:11 ◼   ► John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:03:17 ◼   ► 'Cause it was accidental, it was accidental

01:03:22 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:03:27 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:03:32 ◼   ► Follow them @CASEYLISS

01:03:37 ◼   ► So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:03:41 ◼   ► E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N-S-I-R-A-C

01:03:46 ◼   ► U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A

01:03:48 ◼   ► It's accidental (it's accidental)

01:03:52 ◼   ► They didn't mean to accidental (accidental)

01:03:57 ◼   ► Tech podcast so long.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Because Jon insists on using stupid Google docs for our show notes, I keep the

01:04:08 ◼   ► show bot open in Chrome because Google, Chrome is my Google, what did you call

01:04:13 ◼   ► quarantine?

01:04:13 ◼   ► Hell, whatever you called it, Marco.

01:04:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:15 ◼   ► Well anyways, so, uh, about an hour ago, uh, somebody Hunter H suggested question

01:04:20 ◼   ► mark in a box in a question mark in a box, which is because stupid Chrome still

01:04:25 ◼   ► doesn't support emoji.

01:04:26 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - That is so evil of Google.

01:04:30 ◼   ► - It is.

01:04:31 ◼   ► - It's the real reason you don't use Chrome.

01:04:32 ◼   ► - Open always wins.

01:04:33 ◼   ► So I've been working on a very basic web interface

01:04:38 ◼   ► for Overcast.

01:04:39 ◼   ► - And why have you been doing that, Marco?

01:04:41 ◼   ► - Because it had to be done?

01:04:44 ◼   ► - No, it's because I whined to you about the fact

01:04:46 ◼   ► that there wasn't a web player.

01:04:48 ◼   ► - That too, okay.

01:04:49 ◼   ► So anyway, some people whined to me about it.

01:04:52 ◼   ► So I made a very basic web player.

01:04:56 ◼   ► and I turned on content security policy in very strict mode

01:05:01 ◼   ► so that it disables any of the things

01:05:02 ◼   ► that begin with unsafe.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Which the hardest thing about that is that

01:05:07 ◼   ► you can't use inline style or script tags.

01:05:10 ◼   ► - What?

01:05:10 ◼   ► - Script tags were easy to pull out.

01:05:12 ◼   ► Inline style tags are not that easy to pull out

01:05:14 ◼   ► if you've already written a whole bunch of code.

01:05:16 ◼   ► The advantage of content security policy is that,

01:05:21 ◼   ► so for those of you who don't know,

01:05:22 ◼   ► it's still pretty rarely used, I think,

01:05:25 ◼   ► It's pretty new and pretty hard to use,

01:05:27 ◼   ► but there's these couple of headers you set

01:05:29 ◼   ► as a web programmer.

01:05:30 ◼   ► You set a couple of headers, or one header,

01:05:32 ◼   ► but three times to put all the stupid vendor prefixes,

01:05:35 ◼   ► 'cause web programming is awesome.

01:05:36 ◼   ► And the header basically says,

01:05:40 ◼   ► only permit JavaScript from these sources,

01:05:43 ◼   ► only permit style stuff, CSS styles from these sources,

01:05:46 ◼   ► only permit images from these sources, and so on.

01:05:49 ◼   ► And the spec even kind of inherently yells at you.

01:05:52 ◼   ► if you enable content security policy at all,

01:05:56 ◼   ► if you want these things, like by default,

01:05:58 ◼   ► it I believe won't allow anything,

01:06:00 ◼   ► and if you want the ability to use

01:06:03 ◼   ► like an inline style attribute on something

01:06:05 ◼   ► or an inline script, you have to say,

01:06:07 ◼   ► allow unsafe-inline, or unsafe eval,

01:06:12 ◼   ► 'cause eval is also unsafe,

01:06:13 ◼   ► and like it's a pretty well implemented standard,

01:06:17 ◼   ► or well designed standard I think,

01:06:19 ◼   ► because it's designed to inherently yell at you

01:06:22 ◼   ► if you set things unsafely.

01:06:24 ◼   ► So anyway, so I've now made my entire interface with it.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a very small interface.

01:06:30 ◼   ► It's a very small app so far,

01:06:31 ◼   ► but I now have my thing where it only allows things

01:06:35 ◼   ► from its own host and the host of the CDN.

01:06:40 ◼   ► That's the service from the static pages, and that's it.

01:06:43 ◼   ► And it's great.

01:06:45 ◼   ► And I'm wondering, Casey, why don't you play with this also?

01:06:49 ◼   ► Why don't you use this on Showbot?

01:06:50 ◼   ► 'cause it would help dramatically reduce the number

01:06:54 ◼   ► of people who would ever be exposed to XSS on your site

01:06:58 ◼   ► if you were to miss a vulnerability.

01:07:01 ◼   ► - I probably should, but I don't need to

01:07:04 ◼   ► because the show bot's still up.

01:07:05 ◼   ► What now?

01:07:07 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, but--

01:07:08 ◼   ► - I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

01:07:09 ◼   ► I understand your point.

01:07:10 ◼   ► I probably should.

01:07:11 ◼   ► To be honest, this was not something I was familiar with,

01:07:13 ◼   ► so I'll have to look into it.

01:07:14 ◼   ► - Do sort by votes first, please.

01:07:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, actually, that's, yeah, please do that first.

01:07:18 ◼   ► - That's a fair request, that's a fair request.

01:07:20 ◼   ► sort my foots first.

01:07:21 ◼   ► No, it's a cool standard.

01:07:22 ◼   ► I learned about it roughly a year ago, I think,

01:07:25 ◼   ► when GitHub enabled it.

01:07:27 ◼   ► And the way I learned about it is that at first,

01:07:31 ◼   ► like when it was very first implemented by browsers,

01:07:34 ◼   ► most of them would also block bookmarklet execution,

01:07:38 ◼   ► 'cause that was a script that didn't come from blah, blah,

01:07:40 ◼   ► blah, and the standard specifically says

01:07:42 ◼   ► bookmarklets should not be interfered with,

01:07:44 ◼   ► but the browsers all missed that the first time,

01:07:46 ◼   ► and so it broke bookmarklets for a little while.

01:07:49 ◼   ► But now, certainly Chrome and Safari have fixed that.

01:07:53 ◼   ► Firefox was the last one to fix it.

01:07:55 ◼   ► I don't know if they have yet, but who cares, it's Firefox.

01:07:58 ◼   ► - Do you remember back in the day

01:07:59 ◼   ► when that was lean and mean?

01:08:00 ◼   ► I know we've been over this at some point, but--

01:08:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, my name's on the poster when they launched.

01:08:05 ◼   ► I donated like 50 bucks and got my name in the big ad,

01:08:08 ◼   ► the big full page ad that they were running

01:08:10 ◼   ► in some, maybe it was New Times, I don't know.

01:08:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I was like a backer of Firefox,

01:08:15 ◼   ► and I wrote Firefox extensions at my first job in 2004,

01:08:19 ◼   ► which was a terrible time to write Firefox extensions.

01:08:21 ◼   ► It was like, I believe when I started,

01:08:24 ◼   ► it was still called Phoenix, whatever .7 was.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Yeah, Firefox was awesome back in the day.

01:08:31 ◼   ► The problem is the world moved on

01:08:33 ◼   ► and Firefox really didn't.

01:08:36 ◼   ► - Well, it became what it was trying to solve

01:08:38 ◼   ► because remember Netscape was just this bloated,

01:08:41 ◼   ► disgusting mess and so Firefox was all lean and mean

01:08:44 ◼   ► And it was a small download, and it was fast as hell.

01:08:49 ◼   ► And then, next thing you know, fast forward like four years, and it's the disgusting,

01:08:53 ◼   ► bloated mess that Netscape once was.

01:08:54 ◼   ► Well, it was standards compliant.

01:08:56 ◼   ► In addition to being lean and mean, it was like, "We're going to write to standards."

01:08:59 ◼   ► And they did do that, because all the browsers that supplanted it conformed to standards,

01:09:03 ◼   ► with the exception of IE until very recently, and even then, still annoyingly.

01:09:07 ◼   ► But it succeeded in that mission.

01:09:08 ◼   ► It's just that other people picked up the mantle and moved on, because it's got the—Firefox

01:09:12 ◼   ► Firefox has the oldest code base. Well, I don't know, is KHTML as old as Mozilla?

01:09:17 ◼   ► Anyway, it's got it's certainly got the creakiest code base. The other ones have

01:09:20 ◼   ► had much more recent attention to get them cleaned up. I mean, aren't the Mozilla

01:09:25 ◼   ► guys trying to write a new rendering engine in Rust? That's why they're doing

01:09:28 ◼   ► the whole Rust thing, so maybe they will rise again. But they did, you know, they

01:09:33 ◼   ► became, they were the flagship for standards, and now we have standards

01:09:38 ◼   ► everywhere and standards are what we want and IE-isms are mostly dead with the exception

01:09:43 ◼   ► of the ones that are still supported by the versions of IE that we still have to deal

01:09:46 ◼   ► with.

01:09:47 ◼   ► So it kind of succeeded in its mission.

01:09:48 ◼   ► So I don't think it died by getting fat and ugly and it failed its mission.

01:09:53 ◼   ► It succeeded, it's just that now it's a little long in the tooth.

01:09:56 ◼   ► I remember I used to use Firefox because Firebug was the best and only reasonable way to debug

01:10:02 ◼   ► stuff on the web and it just gradually shifted off onto, for a while I was using Safari's

01:10:07 ◼   ► dev tools when the WebKit ones were really good. Now I use Chrome's dev tools, which

01:10:10 ◼   ► I think Safari covers all the same bases, but I've just kind of gotten to use it to

01:10:13 ◼   ► Chrome's dev tools interface, kind of like where things are until they change it, I guess.

01:10:19 ◼   ► But no, I haven't launched Firefox in forever.

01:10:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I cannot remember the last time I've launched Firefox.

01:10:26 ◼   ► I use it to post to Twitter when we make a new episode of the show, because I leave Firefox

01:10:32 ◼   ► signed in to that account on Twitter, and that's it.

01:10:35 ◼   ► You have a quarantine for everything.

01:10:37 ◼   ► How many browsers do you have?

01:10:39 ◼   ► - Well Chrome, I used Chrome for some other Twitter login.

01:10:42 ◼   ► I forget which one.

01:10:43 ◼   ► So I wanted to keep them separate.

01:10:45 ◼   ► I really should just install the Twitter app again

01:10:47 ◼   ► on my desktop is what I'm saying, but.

01:10:49 ◼   ► - You don't have like Tweetbot on your desktop or anything?

01:10:51 ◼   ► - No, I deleted it in a fit of productivity boosting.

01:10:56 ◼   ► 'Cause I use this app called Rescue Time

01:10:58 ◼   ► that tracks how long you spend doing things

01:11:00 ◼   ► and then sends you a report every week saying like,

01:11:02 ◼   ► you spent 16 hours in Xcode, four hours in Logic,

01:11:05 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah. And it kept telling me every week that I was apparently spending roughly

01:11:10 ◼   ► four hours a week using Twitter. And that wasn't just one week, that was consistent.

01:11:18 ◼   ► And so I realized, you know what, I should really not be spending that much time with

01:11:23 ◼   ► it. And so to force myself not to spend much time with it, I deleted the complete app.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Because it's one thing, you can just re-download an app, but with a Twitter app you have to

01:11:31 ◼   ► into each of the accounts separately and that's a pain in the butt. So I knew that

01:11:35 ◼   ► I knew that it would it would be a significant barrier barrier to put it

01:11:40 ◼   ► back. I was actually just thinking about putting it back earlier today because in

01:11:44 ◼   ► my effort not to have it on my desktop what I haven't said so right now I have

01:11:48 ◼   ► my laptop which I still have it installed during during our show I keep

01:11:53 ◼   ► tweet bot open so I can see replies coming in from people similar to how I

01:11:58 ◼   ► have the chat window open. So during our show I have to have my laptop next to me

01:12:01 ◼   ► over here as the second screen just showing Twitter.

01:12:04 ◼   ► During the day, if I post a tweet,

01:12:06 ◼   ► I still can post tweets from Notification Center,

01:12:10 ◼   ► but I can't read the responses I get.

01:12:12 ◼   ► But many times I have to have a conversation

01:12:14 ◼   ► with somebody over Twitter DMs.

01:12:16 ◼   ► And sometimes it's personal, sometimes it's business,

01:12:18 ◼   ► either way, it's a way that a lot of people communicate.

01:12:20 ◼   ► And so I frequently have to have the Twitter website

01:12:24 ◼   ► open in a tab so I can use the DM thing there,

01:12:26 ◼   ► so I can type quickly instead of using my phone,

01:12:30 ◼   ► or like I'll have the laptop on this side,

01:12:32 ◼   ► which is annoying, and then it's open anyway,

01:12:33 ◼   ► and then it's just a different computer,

01:12:34 ◼   ► and then I have to copy links back and forth

01:12:36 ◼   ► between the two, and it's annoying.

01:12:37 ◼   ► And so I have to, or like I'll ask a question on Twitter,

01:12:41 ◼   ► and then I'll be reading the responses on my phone,

01:12:43 ◼   ► on my desk, bent over, and it's just like,

01:12:46 ◼   ► I'm jumping through a lot of hoops

01:12:48 ◼   ► to still use Twitter anyway.

01:12:51 ◼   ► And so my rationale is like, I should probably add it back

01:12:54 ◼   ► because I'm using it anyway,

01:12:56 ◼   ► just in ways that Rescue Time

01:12:58 ◼   ► doesn't really track as easily, but I'm using it anyway.

01:13:01 ◼   ► And it would actually be faster if I had the real app

01:13:04 ◼   ► on my desktop again, because all these things,

01:13:06 ◼   ► I wouldn't have to get up through as many hoops,

01:13:08 ◼   ► they wouldn't be transferring things back and forth

01:13:10 ◼   ► between devices, I'd be able to do things

01:13:12 ◼   ► with keyboard shortcuts and type faster,

01:13:13 ◼   ► so it's, I think I should just put it back,

01:13:17 ◼   ► but I don't know.

01:13:18 ◼   ► Isn't that really exciting, I love that, yeah.

01:13:21 ◼   ► Lots of discussion about workflows.

01:13:24 ◼   ► - Someone put in the chat room a link

01:13:26 ◼   ► to the Wikipedia article showing the rendering,

01:13:27 ◼   ► web rendering engine timelines among Gecko, KHTML,

01:13:32 ◼   ► and WebKit.

01:13:33 ◼   ► Gecko is slightly older than KHTML,

01:13:36 ◼   ► and also older than Trident,

01:13:37 ◼   ► which I think is what IE uses now.

01:13:39 ◼   ► - The reason why I think most people abandoned Firefox

01:13:42 ◼   ► over the last few years didn't have a lot to do with Gecko,

01:13:46 ◼   ► and had more to do with the Firefox interface,

01:13:49 ◼   ► being based on Zool, and having a whole bunch of crap

01:13:53 ◼   ► being able to be thrown in, and having extensions,

01:13:55 ◼   ► extensions kind of made and broke Firefox.

01:13:59 ◼   ► They made it in that a lot of people used it for a while,

01:14:03 ◼   ► a lot of people still use it because certain extensions

01:14:06 ◼   ► are only there or even only possible there.

01:14:10 ◼   ► But what made those extensions possible

01:14:13 ◼   ► was that the whole Firefox interface is built on,

01:14:16 ◼   ► I assume it still is, please tell me

01:14:17 ◼   ► if this is out of date information,

01:14:19 ◼   ► but was built on this big XML specification

01:14:23 ◼   ► where the whole browser was specified in XML

01:14:26 ◼   ► and had all these complexities.

01:14:27 ◼   ► And that's one of the reasons why it never really looks

01:14:30 ◼   ► quite native and never looks quite right on any platform

01:14:32 ◼   ► and why it's very slow.

01:14:34 ◼   ► Because it's basically a web page.

01:14:37 ◼   ► And it's more complicated than that,

01:14:39 ◼   ► but that's kind of the gist of it.

01:14:42 ◼   ► It's specified in this very heavy customizable language

01:14:45 ◼   ► so that it can be so flexible.

01:14:46 ◼   ► So extensions can do anything.

01:14:47 ◼   ► Extensions are written in the same language.

01:14:49 ◼   ► Extensions can control everything, do everything.

01:14:52 ◼   ► the browser was like this giant, slow interpreter

01:14:56 ◼   ► to run all this crap, including its own interface.

01:14:59 ◼   ► And that, I think, made Firefox feel much heavier

01:15:02 ◼   ► and slower and more bloated.

01:15:05 ◼   ► And it certainly made it look pretty bad

01:15:06 ◼   ► that they didn't have very good design either.

01:15:09 ◼   ► So it felt big and slow, it was big and slow,

01:15:12 ◼   ► and it looked big and slow.

01:15:14 ◼   ► And in the era where now everything needs to be efficient

01:15:16 ◼   ► and fast and getting better and JavaScript getting better

01:15:18 ◼   ► and everything's getting better and faster,

01:15:20 ◼   ► and Firefox is this big bloated slow thing in the corner.

01:15:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, hasn't been good in a while as far as I'm concerned.

01:15:27 ◼   ► That's right.

01:15:28 ◼   ► Hey, can we talk about something important?

01:15:30 ◼   ► - (laughs)

01:15:31 ◼   ► Your Showbot, my Twitter productivity,

01:15:33 ◼   ► or Firefox, the most current topic in the world.

01:15:37 ◼   ► What's more important than these things?

01:15:39 ◼   ► - So what's more important than these things

01:15:40 ◼   ► is what I just put in the chat room,

01:15:42 ◼   ► which is somebody dynoed a new M3.

01:15:46 ◼   ► - Can you translate to English for those of us

01:15:48 ◼   ► who are not experts in this field.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Does this refer to a dinosaur in any way?

01:15:54 ◼   ► - No.

01:15:55 ◼   ► So somebody put a new M3 on a dynamometer

01:15:58 ◼   ► which measures how much power the car produces

01:16:03 ◼   ► and they compared it to the prior generation M3

01:16:06 ◼   ► which is from my generation and my goodness,

01:16:09 ◼   ► you should see the torque curve on this thing.

01:16:11 ◼   ► It goes from no torques, to use a top gear-ism,

01:16:15 ◼   ► to darn near all of its torques in 1000 RPM.

01:16:19 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

01:16:20 ◼   ► You're the worst.

01:16:24 ◼   ► John, do you at least slightly appreciate this?

01:16:26 ◼   ► Somebody help me out here.

01:16:27 ◼   ► - The magic of turbos.

01:16:28 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:16:29 ◼   ► - So it is the magic of turbos.

01:16:31 ◼   ► However, my car actually doesn't have a curve

01:16:35 ◼   ► that different from this.

01:16:37 ◼   ► And I can tell you it's mostly useless

01:16:39 ◼   ► because if you actually give it full power at low revs,

01:16:42 ◼   ► you just lose grip and the tires spin.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Like you can't actually use all of your torque off the line,

01:16:49 ◼   ► which is where I think it matters most.

01:16:51 ◼   ► You can't use it all because it's too much power

01:16:54 ◼   ► for two wheels to put down.

01:16:57 ◼   ► - If only you had a four wheel drive M car.

01:16:58 ◼   ► - I know, well there is one, but it's terrible.

01:17:00 ◼   ► I wish they would make some better ones.

01:17:02 ◼   ► - Don't you have launch control on that thing?

01:17:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, how many times have you tried it?

01:17:06 ◼   ► - Zero.

01:17:07 ◼   ► Isn't the point of launch control

01:17:08 ◼   ► to spin the wheels even more?

01:17:10 ◼   ► - No! - No, no.

01:17:12 ◼   ► The computer controls making sure that you get the car moving as fast as possible, so

01:17:17 ◼   ► it's going to modulate the throttle.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Does it modulate the brakes as well?

01:17:21 ◼   ► Anyway, it wants to maintain friction, right on the ragged edge of you losing traction

01:17:25 ◼   ► but not going over it, kind of like anti-lock brakes, in a way that you couldn't do yourself

01:17:30 ◼   ► if you were modulating it.

01:17:31 ◼   ► That's why most of the most recent Car and Driver, they have the Porsche 918 going to

01:17:36 ◼   ► 60 in 2.2 seconds.

01:17:38 ◼   ► That's launch control.

01:17:39 ◼   ► God, that's insane.

01:17:41 ◼   ► To me, this is exciting.

01:17:43 ◼   ► It's exciting in that the M cars keep getting much better

01:17:46 ◼   ► and they're able to get this much power

01:17:48 ◼   ► out of a six cylinder again.

01:17:49 ◼   ► So the cars are getting smaller, lighter,

01:17:52 ◼   ► or at least making the same weight

01:17:54 ◼   ► and getting more powerful close enough.

01:17:55 ◼   ► But they don't need more power.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Power is not the challenge right now.

01:17:59 ◼   ► They need lower weight and they need better traction.

01:18:03 ◼   ► And I think they're pretty much at the limits.

01:18:05 ◼   ► On the BMW side, I think they're pretty much

01:18:07 ◼   ► at the limits of how much torque you can apply

01:18:09 ◼   ► the two wheels and have it be reasonably useful,

01:18:12 ◼   ► I think they need to move to an all-wheel drive system

01:18:14 ◼   ► in the M cars, that's it.

01:18:15 ◼   ► There's too much power there,

01:18:17 ◼   ► and this is with the current generation.

01:18:19 ◼   ► What are they gonna do with the next generation

01:18:21 ◼   ► of these things?

01:18:22 ◼   ► Where presumably the powers are gonna go even further up,

01:18:25 ◼   ► and the weight's gonna go down,

01:18:27 ◼   ► how are you gonna apply those power to the road?

01:18:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm not so sure you're right,

01:18:31 ◼   ► but we'll argue about this forevermore.

01:18:33 ◼   ► But to come back to what Jon was saying,

01:18:35 ◼   ► so I'm attempting and failing, there we go,

01:18:38 ◼   ► to put a link in the chat room of me this past--

01:18:41 ◼   ► I think it was this past winter--

01:18:43 ◼   ► in my car doing a four-wheel burnout in snow.

01:18:46 ◼   ► And I took the video-- or actually, Aaron took the video

01:18:50 ◼   ► using one of our iPhones in high frame rate mode.

01:18:54 ◼   ► And if you look at the front tire,

01:18:57 ◼   ► you can see it slowing down, speeding up, slowing down,

01:18:59 ◼   ► speeding up, slowing down, speeding up,

01:19:01 ◼   ► because the traction control is trying

01:19:03 ◼   ► to keep me moving forward.

01:19:06 ◼   ► And so it's a very fascinating video seeing it in slow-mo

01:19:09 ◼   ► because I can assure you that when you see this

01:19:11 ◼   ► at full speed, it did not look like

01:19:13 ◼   ► that was happening at all.

01:19:15 ◼   ► And as a quick aside, a friend of mine

01:19:17 ◼   ► who has a chipped rear drive 335 said to me

01:19:22 ◼   ► that he went through rear brakes extremely quickly

01:19:28 ◼   ► because the traction control was just melting

01:19:30 ◼   ► all the rear brakes trying to keep him moving forward.

01:19:34 ◼   ► And I just thought that was hysterical.

01:19:35 ◼   ► I don't think launch control does the same things as traction control, though.

01:19:38 ◼   ► I think the idea of launch control is there.

01:19:40 ◼   ► I mean, someone corrected me wrong, but it's not using the brakes as much as traction control

01:19:46 ◼   ► on a slippery surface is.

01:19:48 ◼   ► I think you're right.

01:19:49 ◼   ► I think it's more about clutch application and how many revs you have when you pretty

01:19:52 ◼   ► much dump the clutch.

01:19:54 ◼   ► But I think at least in part it uses brakes in order to get everything moving forward,

01:20:02 ◼   ► although an M-Card actually has limited slip, which I guess helps.

01:20:05 ◼   ► See, now I don't feel bad at all about talking for like two minutes about my Twitter productivity

01:20:10 ◼   ► challenges because now you've spent time on this.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Well, you, I was never going to cut all this out.

01:20:16 ◼   ► No, I want everyone to know how boring we are.