ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I want to see you discipline your kids, Jon.

00:00:02 ◼   ► - No, you don't.

00:00:03 ◼   ► You'll see how ineffectual I am

00:00:06 ◼   ► when we meet in person with my kids

00:00:08 ◼   ► sometime in the future.

00:00:10 ◼   ► - Do you use the "I'm really disappointed in you" approach?

00:00:13 ◼   ► - Kids don't care, kids don't care what you say.

00:00:16 ◼   ► You'll learn.

00:00:17 ◼   ► You are the least impressive, intimidating,

00:00:21 ◼   ► they get used to you, is what happens.

00:00:25 ◼   ► In so many respects, they look up to you

00:00:27 ◼   ► and the things that you do have such profound effects on them

00:00:29 ◼   ► but in so many other ways, strangers are much better able

00:00:31 ◼   ► to control and discipline them

00:00:33 ◼   ► until they get used to the strangers,

00:00:34 ◼   ► then they're screwed too.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Happens every school year.

00:00:36 ◼   ► I mean, just ask Aaron.

00:00:37 ◼   ► The beginning of the year, they're intimidated by you,

00:00:39 ◼   ► you're an authoritarian.

00:00:41 ◼   ► At the end of the year, the badly behaved kids

00:00:42 ◼   ► are just like, "I know that person,"

00:00:44 ◼   ► and they just start goofing off.

00:00:46 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:00:47 ◼   ► - Okay, so let's do some follow-up.

00:00:49 ◼   ► So let's talk about iTunes on Windows,

00:00:51 ◼   ► and this was something that I did not know.

00:00:54 ◼   ► So John, you got an interesting tweet

00:00:56 ◼   ► in the last week or so.

00:00:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, obviously none of us know anything

00:00:59 ◼   ► I think the last time I even saw iTunes on Windows, it was probably like in my Windows

00:01:04 ◼   ► XP boot camp partition, it probably made me install it at some point and I probably accidentally

00:01:09 ◼   ► lost it at once.

00:01:10 ◼   ► But anyway, Chucker tweeted that Windows has a bunch of cocoa crap in it.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Apparently there's an objc.dll and a corevideo.dll.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I don't think corevideo is necessarily...

00:01:20 ◼   ► Does anyone remember if corevideo is an Objective-C API or a C API, Marco?

00:01:25 ◼   ► I've never even heard of it.

00:01:26 ◼   ► I mean, there's QuickTimeKit.

00:01:27 ◼   ► But I know I mean like what you're talking about like that and that actually beyond just iTunes for Windows

00:01:31 ◼   ► When they made Safari for Windows there was also a bunch of this stuff. They poured it over like the whole text system

00:01:36 ◼   ► Yeah, which is which is why Safari rendered fonts on Windows the way Macs render fonts

00:01:41 ◼   ► yeah, so anyway iTunes for Windows has been progressing and

00:01:45 ◼   ► Obviously, it's not stuck in the bad old days when it was I mean

00:01:49 ◼   ► It was originally based off those like libraries that they had ported for a quick time for Windows

00:01:53 ◼   ► but it has obviously expanded since then. From what we've heard from various people who still use iTunes on Windows, despite its

00:01:59 ◼   ► foundations being, you know, based partially on

00:02:04 ◼   ► Cocoa and Objective-C stuff, it is still not a good app on Windows. But it's an excellent app on the Mac.

00:02:09 ◼   ► People do not say that either.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Obviously, I see all the feedback that agrees with me,

00:02:14 ◼   ► but what have you guys been seeing of like Twitter feedback and email feedback about iTunes?

00:02:19 ◼   ► I'd say I saw probably two-thirds in favor of you and one-third in our camp roughly. Would you say the same Marco? I

00:02:26 ◼   ► Didn't really see much about this. Although my Twitter streams been filled with other things recently, but I think I

00:02:32 ◼   ► You know, I I think another another point to bring up here which

00:02:37 ◼   ► Isn't directly related

00:02:40 ◼   ► But I think is relevant

00:02:41 ◼   ► The way Apple software works on Windows first with QuickTime player back in the early days and then now then with iTunes and with Safari

00:02:48 ◼   ► It angers so many Windows people.

00:02:51 ◼   ► I know because I used to be one,

00:02:52 ◼   ► because it doesn't work the way Windows software works.

00:02:56 ◼   ► It is not a good platform citizen.

00:02:58 ◼   ► It is not native.

00:02:59 ◼   ► It is like, you know,

00:03:00 ◼   ► an Apple app was dropped poorly onto Windows.

00:03:03 ◼   ► It's always like this giant pile of hacks,

00:03:05 ◼   ► and Windows people hate them.

00:03:07 ◼   ► They absolutely hate them.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Geeks hate them.

00:03:09 ◼   ► And I think that actually contributes a lot

00:03:10 ◼   ► to PC users' hatred of Apple sometimes,

00:03:14 ◼   ► because like, you know,

00:03:15 ◼   ► the geeks have seen QuickTime player for years,

00:03:18 ◼   ► and all the crap it did,

00:03:20 ◼   ► and all the weird stuff it installed,

00:03:22 ◼   ► and the system tray thing,

00:03:23 ◼   ► and all the extensions it took.

00:03:25 ◼   ► It was a really bad citizen.

00:03:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, Safari for Windows didn't catch on for many reasons,

00:03:31 ◼   ► but that is one of the many reasons that it didn't catch on,

00:03:33 ◼   ► because it totally looked like a weird, gross version

00:03:36 ◼   ► of Safari for the Mac somehow made to lurch to life

00:03:39 ◼   ► on Windows, and they finally canned the thing.

00:03:41 ◼   ► What was it, a couple years back,

00:03:42 ◼   ► they stopped developing that?

00:03:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it was about two years ago.

00:03:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, which is a shame,

00:03:47 ◼   ► because WebKit on Windows is definitely a viable thing to do.

00:03:50 ◼   ► I mean, Chrome is popular on Windows

00:03:52 ◼   ► and Chrome is not particularly Windows-like.

00:03:54 ◼   ► It is more Windows-like than Safari was,

00:03:56 ◼   ► but it just goes to show that Apple could have had

00:03:59 ◼   ► a viable browser on Windows if they weren't so married

00:04:02 ◼   ► to making it look and act as close as possible

00:04:05 ◼   ► as the Mac version, right down to the crazy text rendering

00:04:07 ◼   ► that Windows people hated

00:04:08 ◼   ► because it wouldn't use clear type.

00:04:09 ◼   ► It would use the Mac font rendering,

00:04:11 ◼   ► which looked wrong to everybody who uses Windows.

00:04:16 ◼   ► - All right.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Lightning cables.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Apparently this is becoming the follow-up that never ends.

00:04:21 ◼   ► We have some warranty clarification and damage causes

00:04:25 ◼   ► and other things to talk about.

00:04:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, we didn't talk about warranties last time.

00:04:28 ◼   ► And I said, you know, if you have a lightning cable

00:04:31 ◼   ► that's dead or something, bring it to the Apple store,

00:04:33 ◼   ► maybe they'll give you a new one, maybe they won't.

00:04:35 ◼   ► But I didn't say, what I hope it was clear,

00:04:37 ◼   ► but apparently it wasn't.

00:04:39 ◼   ► If you have something with one of your Apple devices

00:04:42 ◼   ► that goes wrong and it's still under warranty,

00:04:44 ◼   ► you can get a warranty replacement.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Now in the case of cables, there's still a gray area

00:04:48 ◼   ► where if you bring in something that was clearly chewed

00:04:50 ◼   ► by a cat, you're at the mercy of the Apple genius

00:04:53 ◼   ► if they wanna be nice, 'cause I think damage caused

00:04:56 ◼   ► by intentional misuse or something like,

00:04:59 ◼   ► you drop your iPhone in the water unless you have

00:05:01 ◼   ► that special AppleCare Plus that gives you replacements.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Anyway, there are nuances to this, but in general,

00:05:08 ◼   ► if you're within the warranty period,

00:05:09 ◼   ► yes, by all means bring it in,

00:05:10 ◼   ► you'll almost certainly get something new.

00:05:12 ◼   ► What I was talking about is if you're not

00:05:13 ◼   ► the warranty period and you still have a broken cable and you feel like boy this shouldn't

00:05:17 ◼   ► have broken after you know a year and a half you can bring that in and they may give you

00:05:22 ◼   ► a new one and we got some feedback here from Jem who said that the genius of the apple

00:05:28 ◼   ► bar set genius at the apple bar you know what I mean the standard rule is that you should

00:05:34 ◼   ► bring in before it fully splits like before the casing splits open because they're reluctant

00:05:39 ◼   ► to replace it once it's split so it's better to take in early so take in if it looks like

00:05:43 ◼   ► it's wearing out or whatever but then that's just one what one person said

00:05:46 ◼   ► lots of other people said hey I brought it in it was totally mangled and they

00:05:49 ◼   ► gave me a new one I brought something and it was like five years old no

00:05:51 ◼   ► problem gave me no you know lots of people saying they got new ones and it's

00:05:55 ◼   ► not a big deal I don't think anyone wrote in to say they had they took it in

00:05:59 ◼   ► a cable that was damaged and got turned away and you would think you would hear

00:06:04 ◼   ► a couple of those stories but anyway it seems like if you have a damaged cable

00:06:07 ◼   ► if you go to the Apple Store if you're under warranty or if you're nice or both

00:06:10 ◼   ► you'll probably get a new one.

00:06:12 ◼   ► And for the damage caused stuff,

00:06:14 ◼   ► a whole bunch of people speculated about

00:06:16 ◼   ► what might be causing it.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Like ours aren't broken, everyone else's are.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And we talked about pulling it out by the cable.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Another common thing cited by a lot of people

00:06:26 ◼   ► responding to us, who a lot of people attributed

00:06:28 ◼   ► this advice to Apple Geniuses as well,

00:06:29 ◼   ► is don't use your iOS device while it's plugged in,

00:06:32 ◼   ► you know, to the charger or whatever,

00:06:34 ◼   ► because obviously that puts extra strain on the thing.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And I think one person, I wish I had saved their tweet,

00:06:38 ◼   ► but I didn't.

00:06:39 ◼   ► that they had taken to using their iPad

00:06:42 ◼   ► with the lightning cable plugged in the bottom

00:06:44 ◼   ► with the iPad resting on the lightning cable.

00:06:46 ◼   ► So like in portrait orientation,

00:06:48 ◼   ► resting on the lightning cable.

00:06:50 ◼   ► That is not a good, you know,

00:06:52 ◼   ► that's exactly what people like us are thinking.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Like what are these people doing to their cables?

00:06:55 ◼   ► You know, are they resting on the lightning cable

00:06:57 ◼   ► while they read their book?

00:06:58 ◼   ► Don't do that.

00:06:59 ◼   ► That's not, it's terrible for the cable.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, just turn it upside down.

00:07:03 ◼   ► You get better wifi reception that way too.

00:07:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, not everyone knows you can do that.

00:07:08 ◼   ► And not every app supports that, right?

00:07:10 ◼   ► 'Cause that's a orientation mode

00:07:11 ◼   ► that apps have to actually explicitly support.

00:07:14 ◼   ► - And how about Sandeep Shetty?

00:07:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, good job.

00:07:19 ◼   ► I'm glad you tried to pronounce that one.

00:07:21 ◼   ► - He, I'm assuming said you're right about cable shape

00:07:23 ◼   ► being "Johnny Ive's situation well, sort of."

00:07:26 ◼   ► Tell me about this.

00:07:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was a couple of weeks ago.

00:07:28 ◼   ► I was saying, you know, it could be, I was mostly joking,

00:07:31 ◼   ► but I'm saying it could be one of those situations

00:07:32 ◼   ► where strain relief looks nicer

00:07:35 ◼   ► when it doesn't look like the traditional strain relief

00:07:37 ◼   ► with like the little, you know, concentric rings

00:07:39 ◼   ► or ridges or whatever, instead the Apple's cables

00:07:42 ◼   ► just have a smooth, slightly thicker sleeve

00:07:44 ◼   ► over the connector.

00:07:46 ◼   ► And we got a link to a Reddit thread

00:07:48 ◼   ► where someone who used to work for Apple claims

00:07:50 ◼   ► that that is exactly the case.

00:07:51 ◼   ► But the basis of this claims,

00:07:54 ◼   ► if it's he making these claims, I can't tell,

00:07:56 ◼   ► is not particularly solid.

00:07:58 ◼   ► He's basically saying industrial design

00:07:59 ◼   ► runs everything at Apple,

00:08:01 ◼   ► and he finds it totally plausible that, you know,

00:08:04 ◼   ► he says the industrial design department

00:08:06 ◼   ► hates how much strain relief looks like a power adapter.

00:08:09 ◼   ► They would much prefer to have nice clean transition

00:08:11 ◼   ► between the cable and the plug.

00:08:12 ◼   ► But it's not, you know, and then he says,

00:08:14 ◼   ► "I'm sure the engineering division gave every reason

00:08:16 ◼   ► "that robot strain relief should look like the little rings

00:08:19 ◼   ► "and I'm sure they got overridden."

00:08:20 ◼   ► So it's kind of like hearsay and speculation,

00:08:24 ◼   ► slightly more support because this person

00:08:25 ◼   ► used to work at Apple and he's claiming to know

00:08:29 ◼   ► that the industrial design department

00:08:30 ◼   ► hates that little ring pattern type thing.

00:08:32 ◼   ► I don't know, when I was reading this thing,

00:08:34 ◼   ► I was looking down at my headphones that are in my head now

00:08:36 ◼   ► and they just happen to have a strain relief thing of the cable going into the headphone part

00:08:40 ◼   ► and it looks like Apple's. Is it because Sony's engineers hate the little rings too?

00:08:45 ◼   ► I think that thicker sleeve type thing is a vaguely plausible technique for strain relief

00:08:50 ◼   ► it's just not as sturdy as the ring thing because the rings, you know, like

00:08:54 ◼   ► when you bend it the rings knock into each other and make sort of a smooth curve, but

00:08:58 ◼   ► anyway, I'm sure Apple knows what they're doing here, this is not new information to them

00:09:02 ◼   ► they know how many lightning cables wear out, they know how many replacements they have to hand out

00:09:06 ◼   ► If it's a problem, they will address it by either continuing to give out free cables

00:09:12 ◼   ► or maybe the next version will be a little bit stronger, we'll see.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Yeah, for whatever it's worth, I have a large quantity of headphones within eyesight right now

00:09:21 ◼   ► and I just took a look around as you were describing that and none of them have the little gapped ridge pattern.

00:09:27 ◼   ► All of them just have little cuffs at best, similar to the Apple lightning cable.

00:09:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and maybe it's like an expectation of like how much you know people don't expect to be yanking on the cable that goes into

00:09:37 ◼   ► Your headphones right you know even if you're dancing around with your headphone cables. I mean, I don't know like it

00:09:42 ◼   ► It's it's an expectation of you know

00:09:45 ◼   ► What is what does it typically usage look like and I think Apple appears to have misjudged?

00:09:50 ◼   ► The stress and strain of typical usage of lightning cables if our feedback is to be believed

00:09:56 ◼   ► indeed

00:09:58 ◼   ► Now kind of sort of speaking of lightning cables Frank Enderle wrote in to you to say that you were

00:10:05 ◼   ► Slightly incorrect about an assertion you made regarding the cables. Tell me more about this

00:10:11 ◼   ► Information was correct. It was incomplete. I said

00:10:14 ◼   ► secret to knowing how to

00:10:16 ◼   ► Orient an Apple USB connectors to look for the logo the logo faces up if it's a horizontal connector on an Apple device

00:10:22 ◼   ► That is true

00:10:22 ◼   ► That is also true for non-us apple USB devices the logo facing up thing is a part of the USB standard

00:10:29 ◼   ► so of course that doesn't mean that everybody does it because there are plenty of

00:10:32 ◼   ► Vaguely compliant USB devices out there on the market as we all know sometimes

00:10:38 ◼   ► They don't even fit in the plugs or they fit too loosely or whatever

00:10:41 ◼   ► But anyway, that's the USB standard not an Apple standard

00:10:43 ◼   ► In fact, I wonder if Apple is actually in violation of the standard because it doesn't emboss the little USB logo

00:10:49 ◼   ► It just sort of prints it on there. I don't know. I didn't actually read the

00:10:52 ◼   ► a thing of the standard to see if it demands

00:10:54 ◼   ► that it be embossed versus a printed thing.

00:10:58 ◼   ► But there you go, it's not just Apple,

00:11:00 ◼   ► that will work for you everywhere.

00:11:01 ◼   ► - Excellent, man, we're cruising through this followup.

00:11:04 ◼   ► All right, so just a little bit more.

00:11:06 ◼   ► There is a Mac that is sold with an optical drive.

00:11:09 ◼   ► A lot of listeners came out of the woodwork

00:11:12 ◼   ► to tell us that the 13-inch MacBook Pro,

00:11:15 ◼   ► non-retina, just the 13-inch MacBook Pro is still a thing.

00:11:19 ◼   ► It still has a platter hard drive,

00:11:21 ◼   ► And it still has a onboard SuperDrive.

00:11:25 ◼   ► And actually, I just noticed it's labeled in the

00:11:28 ◼   ► specifications page as an 8x SuperDrive, which just made me

00:11:32 ◼   ► remember-- do you remember back in the days when there

00:11:35 ◼   ► were just CD burners, and there were like 52x CD readers,

00:11:39 ◼   ► and they were like 8x burners?

00:11:41 ◼   ► And oh, man, you thought you were so cool when you had like

00:11:44 ◼   ► a 52x reader, and you could load whatever--

00:11:47 ◼   ► Wing Commander 3, well, that's too old.

00:11:49 ◼   ► But you know what I'm driving at.

00:11:50 ◼   ► one of these old CD-based games in no time

00:11:54 ◼   ► and the loading times were instant.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Well, Jon doesn't remember this,

00:11:57 ◼   ► but you remember this, Marco, I assume,

00:11:59 ◼   ► and oh God, those were the days.

00:12:00 ◼   ► - Well, the loading times weren't instant

00:12:01 ◼   ► because first you'd hear the CD spin up

00:12:04 ◼   ► and then spin up further.

00:12:05 ◼   ► It'd be like, vroom, vroom, vroom.

00:12:08 ◼   ► It has to like step through all the speeds.

00:12:10 ◼   ► So everything would just freeze on your computer

00:12:12 ◼   ► while this happened because I think,

00:12:14 ◼   ► I think this was before more advanced buses.

00:12:18 ◼   ► I think at that time, the type of IDE bus they put into,

00:12:22 ◼   ► one device would monopolize the whole bus still,

00:12:25 ◼   ► and which was later alleviated, I think,

00:12:27 ◼   ► but at that time it wouldn't, and so they would just,

00:12:31 ◼   ► like, as you'd sit there hearing that whirlwind spin up,

00:12:34 ◼   ► and spin up, and spin up, everything would just lock

00:12:37 ◼   ► on your computer while that happened.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a great time for computers.

00:12:40 ◼   ► There was also the Kenwood 100x drive,

00:12:44 ◼   ► which used, if I remember correctly,

00:12:46 ◼   ► seven lasers in parallel and an actual spinning speed

00:12:50 ◼   ► of something like 12X.

00:12:51 ◼   ► And I actually had one of these

00:12:53 ◼   ► and it was a really nice drive.

00:12:54 ◼   ► 'Cause it was way quieter than all the other ones.

00:12:57 ◼   ► But for whatever reason that never caught on,

00:12:59 ◼   ► probably just the complexity of it.

00:13:01 ◼   ► - Like you know the X's in like the, you know,

00:13:03 ◼   ► two X, five X, 52X, isn't it times the normal data rate

00:13:07 ◼   ► for the one X CD-ROM, which is super, it's like--

00:13:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, which is, it's 150 kilobytes a second per X.

00:13:12 ◼   ► - Right, it's ridiculous.

00:13:13 ◼   ► So that's why an 8x DVD is putting out way more data than a 100x CD, because DVD data

00:13:18 ◼   ► rate just from how much you get from a 1x spinning DVD is...

00:13:23 ◼   ► Yeah, they reset the rates.

00:13:24 ◼   ► DVD, I believe, DVD is something like nine times the CD speed, something like that.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Man, I never thought I'd need to know these again.

00:13:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and I remember just having this 52x drive and thinking it was so awesome, and

00:13:35 ◼   ► especially since my first CD-ROM drive was way early on, and it was actually, what was

00:13:41 ◼   ► term was it a caddy where you put the cd in a plastic thing with a lid on it and then you stuck

00:13:48 ◼   ► the plastic thing with the lid on it that had the cd inside of it into the cd rom drive and it was

00:13:53 ◼   ► slower than dirt and i remember playing like where in the world is carmen san diego on this

00:13:58 ◼   ► and oh god it was so cool i think this was the 386 machine that we had and then we made it smoking

00:14:04 ◼   ► fast by putting a mathco processor on it nice oh man those were the days this is a good time for

00:14:11 ◼   ► for us to appreciate Apple's URL rot on their website

00:14:14 ◼   ► because that link for the 13 inch MacBook Pro

00:14:16 ◼   ► with an optical drive, look at the URL.

00:14:18 ◼   ► It's www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs.

00:14:22 ◼   ► That's the whole URL.

00:14:23 ◼   ► I checked it like three times.

00:14:24 ◼   ► Like, did I put the wrong link in there?

00:14:26 ◼   ► MacBook Pro/specs is the link

00:14:28 ◼   ► to the one with the optical drive.

00:14:30 ◼   ► The ones to the current MacBook Pro

00:14:31 ◼   ► is macbookpro-specs-retina.

00:14:35 ◼   ► - Weird.

00:14:36 ◼   ► - So like they're not, I mean,

00:14:38 ◼   ► normally they do replacement.

00:14:39 ◼   ► Like, so the new MacBook Pros, you know,

00:14:41 ◼   ► like the OS X page, like there's a main OS X page

00:14:43 ◼   ► and then there's like /preview OS X for the new version.

00:14:46 ◼   ► And when the new version is released,

00:14:47 ◼   ► you know, Yosemite will just be at plain old /OS X

00:14:50 ◼   ► or whatever the URL is.

00:14:51 ◼   ► But somehow retina got stuck in the URL

00:14:53 ◼   ► and they didn't do full replacement on it

00:14:55 ◼   ► and they didn't manage their redirects well.

00:14:57 ◼   ► So anyway, they need to work on that.

00:15:00 ◼   ► At least there's no dot a WOA at the end of it.

00:15:03 ◼   ► - Which do you think will be the last Apple product

00:15:06 ◼   ► to include a spinning disk?

00:15:08 ◼   ► And your choices are probably that MacBook Pro,

00:15:11 ◼   ► the Mac Mini, the iPod Classic, or the iMac.

00:15:14 ◼   ► - Does the Mac Mini come with an optical

00:15:16 ◼   ► as an option anymore?

00:15:17 ◼   ► - No, a spinning disk, like a hard drive.

00:15:19 ◼   ► - Oh, oh, I'm gonna say the iMac.

00:15:23 ◼   ► - Normally I would say the iMac,

00:15:24 ◼   ► 'cause I think you're right.

00:15:26 ◼   ► Well, see, the chat's all saying Mini.

00:15:28 ◼   ► I would actually vote for the iPod Classic,

00:15:30 ◼   ► because this thing is just, it's an undead zombie product.

00:15:33 ◼   ► It will never be killed.

00:15:34 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, if they just never get rid of it.

00:15:37 ◼   ► You're right.

00:15:37 ◼   ► It will win.

00:15:39 ◼   ► It will win by never ever changing,

00:15:41 ◼   ► but always being for sale.

00:15:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:44 ◼   ► Because I could totally see them designing the next iMac.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Because 3 and 1/2 inch drives are pretty large,

00:15:48 ◼   ► physically.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And I can totally see them designing one or two

00:15:52 ◼   ► generations from now an iMac that

00:15:54 ◼   ► is much thinner across the whole thing,

00:15:56 ◼   ► without that big pyramid in the back, much thinner,

00:15:59 ◼   ► and all solid state.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Just like a MacBook Pro.

00:16:01 ◼   ► They're right on a MacBook Pro.

00:16:03 ◼   ► That's why I think the Mini will go,

00:16:04 ◼   ► because its whole thing is it's small,

00:16:06 ◼   ► and you don't expect it to have tons of internal storage.

00:16:10 ◼   ► So it'll go full SSD, but did you see the recent

00:16:12 ◼   ► announcements, like see it has an eight terabyte drive,

00:16:15 ◼   ► three and a half inch, eight terabyte drive.

00:16:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, but Apple's already not,

00:16:18 ◼   ► do they even offer a four terabyte in the iMac?

00:16:20 ◼   ► I don't think they do, I think they talked about a three,

00:16:22 ◼   ► right? - I know,

00:16:23 ◼   ► they're always lagging behind,

00:16:24 ◼   ► but if there's gonna be one machine left

00:16:26 ◼   ► that actually has enough room for a three and a half inch

00:16:29 ◼   ► drive, it's gonna be the iMac,

00:16:32 ◼   ► 'cause it's gated by the size of the screen.

00:16:34 ◼   ► I guess maybe they'll get sick of that bulge being so big

00:16:36 ◼   ► and they'll just keep shrink,

00:16:37 ◼   ► do they have 2.5 inch drives in the current iMac?

00:16:39 ◼   ► I don't even know if they still have 3 1/2.

00:16:41 ◼   ► - That's exactly what I was gonna ask.

00:16:42 ◼   ► - They say the chat room says it's 2.5 in the current iMac.

00:16:45 ◼   ► - I don't think that's true.

00:16:47 ◼   ► - I thought it was, but.

00:16:49 ◼   ► - Three people in the chat room said it,

00:16:50 ◼   ► and three people in the chat room are never wrong, so.

00:16:54 ◼   ► - Do three terabyte hard disks at 2.5 inches exist?

00:16:57 ◼   ► I don't think they do.

00:16:58 ◼   ► - All right, now there's that,

00:16:59 ◼   ► now there's the essential in the chat room.

00:17:00 ◼   ► If only we could look this up somewhere.

00:17:02 ◼   ► - I'm on iFixit, I can only go so quickly.

00:17:05 ◼   ► - All right, anyway, we'll move on

00:17:07 ◼   ► and Marco can cut that out.

00:17:09 ◼   ► - No, 'cause if I'm right, I'm gonna leave it in.

00:17:11 ◼   ► - Of course you are.

00:17:12 ◼   ► - That sure looks like a teardown

00:17:14 ◼   ► that has a three and a half inch drive to me.

00:17:16 ◼   ► - Oh, did somebody already post it?

00:17:17 ◼   ► - If this is the most recent one,

00:17:19 ◼   ► yeah, Tyty in the chat posted this link

00:17:21 ◼   ► that clearly shows a three and a half inch drive.

00:17:23 ◼   ► - I was with you, I was about to call you out

00:17:26 ◼   ► and say, no, I'm pretty sure that--

00:17:27 ◼   ► - Dan Stutters in the chat says,

00:17:29 ◼   ► two and a half in the 21 inch iMac

00:17:30 ◼   ► and three and a half in the 27.

00:17:32 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting.

00:17:34 ◼   ► You have failed me for the last time, chat room.

00:17:38 ◼   ► I'm sure that's a pop culture reference I'm missing.

00:17:40 ◼   ► But anyway--

00:17:41 ◼   ► Oh, lord, Casey.

00:17:42 ◼   ► All right, yes.

00:17:43 ◼   ► Let's move on.

00:17:43 ◼   ► So speaking of follow-up that never ends, John Casey--

00:17:48 ◼   ► no relation-- pointed out to me via email that, quote unquote,

00:17:52 ◼   ► "speed match" is coming to Verizon Fios, quote,

00:17:57 ◼   ► "in the coming months."

00:17:59 ◼   ► And so if you recall, I had sold my soul and Sprout

00:18:04 ◼   ► in order to get symmetrical internet.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And this John Casey said that,

00:18:11 ◼   ► "Well, if you were just a patient person,

00:18:14 ◼   ► "you would have been okay,

00:18:15 ◼   ► "and it will be in the coming months."

00:18:16 ◼   ► But let me tell you, my 75/75 internet is magnificent.

00:18:20 ◼   ► - I didn't get one of those emails.

00:18:21 ◼   ► Is it regional?

00:18:22 ◼   ► - I don't know, but I would assume so.

00:18:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, all right.

00:18:25 ◼   ► I'll just wait patiently.

00:18:27 ◼   ► Let me repent publicly that apparently that quote was from Star Wars and now the internet hates me even more than perhaps they might have so

00:18:34 ◼   ► My mistake. I'm sorry internet. So, you know who doesn't hate you

00:18:38 ◼   ► Fracture our friends at fracture are sponsoring our show once again fracture prints your photos in vivid color

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00:20:07 ◼   ► icon printed of it and I hang it on the wall. So now I have this little like trophy row of the apps

00:20:13 ◼   ► I've made on the wall and it looks great. I'll link to it in the show notes. And I've been doing

00:20:18 ◼   ► We've been doing this for a while and now I'm seeing,

00:20:20 ◼   ► every time we do one of these spots and I mention this,

00:20:22 ◼   ► a couple days later we'll get a tweet from somebody else

00:20:24 ◼   ► saying they did it and they'll show a picture of theirs

00:20:26 ◼   ► and everyone loves doing this.

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00:21:20 ◼   ► Okay.

00:21:21 ◼   ► So we had a request from dear friend of the show, Merlin man, and he had asked,

00:21:28 ◼   ► uh, I will quote him, I'd love to hear John's thoughts on the Tivo Romeo OTA,

00:21:34 ◼   ► who it's good for and why, and is it worth it given the fee now I know nothing

00:21:39 ◼   ► about Tivo, so John, can you start by explaining to me what makes the Tivo

00:21:44 ◼   ► Romeo OTA different than other Tivo's?

00:21:47 ◼   ► Do we know that it's not pronounced "O-TAH"?

00:21:49 ◼   ► We do not.

00:21:50 ◼   ► I'm gonna go with that.

00:21:51 ◼   ► Uh, so it's not out yet.

00:21:53 ◼   ► I've read a preview on CNET of it, and that's the only information I have about this thing.

00:21:58 ◼   ► It is a...

00:22:01 ◼   ► Romeo is the branding for the current line of TiVo DVRs.

00:22:03 ◼   ► It's got a little hard drive in it, it's got a CPU, it will record television that comes

00:22:09 ◼   ► into your house.

00:22:10 ◼   ► TiVo Romeo TA, like the name says, gets...

00:22:12 ◼   ► God, I don't even know what...

00:22:14 ◼   ► Over the air.

00:22:15 ◼   ► That's capital T is thrown at me.

00:22:17 ◼   ► Yes, it gets over-the-air broadcasts. It doesn't take in cable through either a cable card or anything like that.

00:22:24 ◼   ► It gets high-definition television from an antenna over the air, and that's all it does.

00:22:29 ◼   ► And it's interesting because I think this is the first TiVo since way back when, since you know, maybe the first version.

00:22:37 ◼   ► I don't remember. The first TiVo I got was Series 2, and I've always had it hooked up the cable.

00:22:41 ◼   ► So I don't remember what the old over-the-air analog stuff was like, but

00:22:45 ◼   ► This one does not take cable input, and it's only 50 bucks for the box, and it's a little tiny box

00:22:50 ◼   ► It has a small hard drive for 50 bucks. You wouldn't expect much

00:22:53 ◼   ► It's a 500 gigabyte hard drive which doesn't actually hold that much high def video

00:22:57 ◼   ► I guess for tuners, which is nice because it used to be for tuners was the top of the line

00:23:02 ◼   ► so they're making some progress there and

00:23:04 ◼   ► Making that technology go down market

00:23:06 ◼   ► And it costs $15 a month, and I think from looking at the CNET article

00:23:12 ◼   ► I don't think there's a lifetime thing like other Tivo's if you don't want to pay a monthly fee for the Tivo service

00:23:17 ◼   ► you can just

00:23:19 ◼   ► Pay a lump sum up front and if you plan on keeping it and using it for more the next number of years you

00:23:25 ◼   ► Can do the math and figure out what makes more sense for you?

00:23:27 ◼   ► I always buy the lifetime stuff with my Tivo's because I use them

00:23:30 ◼   ► Until they die and they haven't actually died yet, so I use them until I buy a new Tivo

00:23:36 ◼   ► I use them until I have gotten my money's worth out of the lifetime service

00:23:40 ◼   ► Frequently, but I don't think there's any lifetime service for this this $50 thing. So yes, it's super cheap

00:23:45 ◼   ► But then you have to pay $15 a month

00:23:48 ◼   ► so

00:23:51 ◼   ► Who is it good for and why I think maybe it's good for TiVo the company

00:23:56 ◼   ► because

00:23:58 ◼   ► it's a way to

00:24:00 ◼   ► $50 will trick people into buying because it's like oh, it's so cheap, you know, like I'm a cord cutter

00:24:04 ◼   ► I don't have cable service or whatever

00:24:06 ◼   ► But I like to watch my local sports or whatever something else that I can't get it in a convenient way if I just get this

00:24:11 ◼   ► $50 box I hook it up to my TV

00:24:13 ◼   ► I'll be able to record local sports games to get to use the same TiVo interfaces on their big fancy boxes

00:24:19 ◼   ► Which as we noted in the last show doesn't use flash anymore. It isn't horrendously slow, which is nice

00:24:23 ◼   ► And you know and they don't either don't think too much about or figure

00:24:28 ◼   ► They'll just you know

00:24:29 ◼   ► Stomach the $15 a month for a couple months to see if they like it and the reason I think this is good for TiVo

00:24:34 ◼   ► Is because once you get used to that experience like especially with cord cutters used to the you know firing up the Apple TV

00:24:40 ◼   ► You're watching something around their iPad

00:24:42 ◼   ► TiVo is super convenient like once you hook it up to your television you stop using your television the way you used to and

00:24:48 ◼   ► You get used to the convenience of having a built-in DVR right there like it's the screen you go to when you want to watch

00:24:54 ◼   ► Television and there's all your stuff, and you say well. I do the same thing with my Apple TV

00:24:58 ◼   ► Or I do the same thing with the HBO go

00:25:01 ◼   ► I guess you'd have to have a cable description of that or a shared password or whatever

00:25:04 ◼   ► But in my experience having used all these different kinds of ways to get video

00:25:07 ◼   ► TiVo is the most like old TV where you sit down in front of your television you turn on and there and you you know

00:25:13 ◼   ► point the remote at the TV and there's your stuff and there's no booting and there's no launching and

00:25:18 ◼   ► There's no waiting for it to wake from sleep and there's no doing any of this other stuff

00:25:22 ◼   ► Even if it's not a fastest interface in the world

00:25:24 ◼   ► It is a convincing sort of replacement for your television that changes the way you watch TV

00:25:28 ◼   ► And the reason I say this is good for TiVo and not for people buying this thing is because

00:25:32 ◼   ► Once you get used to this you're going to want to watch all your TV this way

00:25:37 ◼   ► Oh any television that you watch on a television set? I?

00:25:40 ◼   ► Really feel like once people get used to watching the television like that. They're gonna turn it on look for the show

00:25:46 ◼   ► They want to watch and remember. Oh, yeah

00:25:48 ◼   ► I have to watch that one on Apple TV

00:25:49 ◼   ► and I got a switch inputs and then go over to the thing and then wait for the Apple TV to eat awake from sleep and

00:25:53 ◼   ► Then move the little thing around and hold on and then you button to get back to the top level thing and go into the app

00:25:57 ◼   ► they want and then get an iTunes error and it's just it is you know it's not it's not as nice as

00:26:03 ◼   ► experience as TiVo and a tiny hard drive is not going to hold that much stuff and $15 a month is

00:26:10 ◼   ► just brutal so I can't imagine someone I would not recommend this box to anybody if someone wants to

00:26:16 ◼   ► record television that comes into their house in real time you know time shift it for later

00:26:21 ◼   ► I would recommend they get they either use their cables company DVR if they want to get something

00:26:25 ◼   ► super cheap and terrible. Although many people tell me they like their cable company DVRs,

00:26:30 ◼   ► but anyway it can be inexpensive. Or they get a good TiVo. I think this is like the thin edge of

00:26:35 ◼   ► a wedge for TiVo just trying to say, you know, we think that if we can just get our interface in

00:26:39 ◼   ► front of people they will realize that it's a nicer way to watch television than almost any

00:26:43 ◼   ► of the other alternatives. And I agree with them. It is better. I watch most of my television on TiVo

00:26:47 ◼   ► if I can help it. It is nicer than all the other ways I have to watch television. It's a shame this

00:26:53 ◼   ► This doesn't include the streaming stuff.

00:26:54 ◼   ► I don't know why, maybe they're cheaping out or whatever,

00:26:56 ◼   ► but like the fancy TiVos have, you can watch stuff,

00:27:00 ◼   ► you can transfer stuff to your iPad

00:27:02 ◼   ► and then take your iPad like on a plane

00:27:04 ◼   ► and watch something you pulled off your TiVo.

00:27:05 ◼   ► You can watch it by streaming it over the network

00:27:07 ◼   ► from your TiVo to yourself,

00:27:08 ◼   ► although the bandwidth required to do that with HD video

00:27:11 ◼   ► is pretty terrible.

00:27:12 ◼   ► I've done it a couple of times, but it doesn't look great.

00:27:15 ◼   ► But they don't have those features built into this $50 box.

00:27:17 ◼   ► You can buy this other much more expensive box.

00:27:19 ◼   ► It's like a TiVo stream or something

00:27:21 ◼   ► that adds this capability.

00:27:23 ◼   ► All these are reasons not to get this $50 box.

00:27:25 ◼   ► Don't recommend it for anybody,

00:27:26 ◼   ► but I do recommend if you have any interest in DVRs,

00:27:30 ◼   ► I mean, maybe, here, here's what I recommend for you.

00:27:31 ◼   ► If you wanna spend 15, you know,

00:27:33 ◼   ► you wanna spend like 80 bucks,

00:27:34 ◼   ► so two months for the $15 a month service

00:27:37 ◼   ► plus $50 for the thing, you just wanna try it out.

00:27:40 ◼   ► If you like it, I recommend getting a good TiVo.

00:27:42 ◼   ► If you don't like it, you're out at 80 bucks,

00:27:44 ◼   ► so what, not a big deal.

00:27:46 ◼   ► That's basically all I have to say about this.

00:27:48 ◼   ► - When I first saw this announcement,

00:27:50 ◼   ► whenever it was yesterday, whatever it was.

00:27:52 ◼   ► At first I was like, wow, this is really interesting.

00:27:54 ◼   ► I thought about it and then I realized,

00:27:57 ◼   ► first of all, yeah, the $15 a month is,

00:27:59 ◼   ► while that may at one time have seemed fine,

00:28:02 ◼   ► and also compared to an entire cable subscription

00:28:05 ◼   ► that people are paying,

00:28:06 ◼   ► compared to what some cable companies charge

00:28:08 ◼   ► to rent their stuff, that might seem reasonable,

00:28:10 ◼   ► but compared to what cord cutters are used to,

00:28:13 ◼   ► that's a lot of money.

00:28:14 ◼   ► So I'm a quote cable cutter.

00:28:17 ◼   ► I canceled my cable service in 2006,

00:28:21 ◼   ► realizing that I was just not using it enough

00:28:23 ◼   ► and I would rather spend that 80 bucks a month

00:28:25 ◼   ► or whatever was the difference elsewhere.

00:28:27 ◼   ► And now that I've gone this long without traditional TV,

00:28:31 ◼   ► and so I get most of my shows either through Netflix

00:28:33 ◼   ► or I buy them on iTunes.

00:28:34 ◼   ► I have to pirate stuff occasionally

00:28:35 ◼   ► that I can't get it any other way, but it's very rare now.

00:28:38 ◼   ► It's almost always iTunes and Netflix.

00:28:40 ◼   ► None of these methods have commercials

00:28:43 ◼   ► and none of these methods have the broadcast stream,

00:28:46 ◼   ► the cross promotion crap, the starting a minute off,

00:28:50 ◼   ► all this crazy stuff that you deal with

00:28:52 ◼   ► with TV sometimes or all the time.

00:28:55 ◼   ► And so when I watch regular TV,

00:28:57 ◼   ► like at family houses or something like that,

00:29:00 ◼   ► when I watch regular TV, it is terrible.

00:29:03 ◼   ► I recognize this is a massive first world problem.

00:29:07 ◼   ► That disclaimer aside, it is a terrible experience

00:29:11 ◼   ► and I look at that and I'm like,

00:29:13 ◼   ► it's like going back to using Windows.

00:29:14 ◼   ► I can't believe I ever thought that was normal.

00:29:17 ◼   ► And so I look at something like this,

00:29:19 ◼   ► and if you're the kind of person who is not a cord cutter,

00:29:23 ◼   ► but you're thinking about cutting a cord,

00:29:25 ◼   ► and you were looking at this as possibly a way to do it,

00:29:29 ◼   ► great, that sounds like a reasonable idea.

00:29:33 ◼   ► If you've already been a cord cutter though,

00:29:36 ◼   ► I think this will be a lot like going back

00:29:38 ◼   ► to visit your high school after you graduate.

00:29:40 ◼   ► You're gonna feel like, this is not a good idea.

00:29:43 ◼   ► No, because it's not like watching regular TV.

00:29:45 ◼   ► You don't have to see the commercials and everything.

00:29:47 ◼   ► I mean, you do--

00:29:47 ◼   ► You still have to skip them.

00:29:49 ◼   ► I know, but it's not as bad as--

00:29:51 ◼   ► like, the reason you would ever even consider this

00:29:53 ◼   ► is because there's something you're missing.

00:29:54 ◼   ► And I have to think that it's local sports is basically

00:29:56 ◼   ► what this is for, right?

00:29:57 ◼   ► Because everything else you can get,

00:30:00 ◼   ► or everything else requires cable.

00:30:02 ◼   ► Because you're like, oh, I want--

00:30:03 ◼   ► like, no, watch it.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Do people watch network TV?

00:30:05 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:30:06 ◼   ► Maybe you get this for someone who only watches network TV.

00:30:08 ◼   ► But the reason is to have a DVR, because you

00:30:10 ◼   ► want to watch shows right now.

00:30:12 ◼   ► You don't want to wait for even if it's 24 hours

00:30:13 ◼   ► You just don't want to wait for them to appear on Hulu or Apple TV or whatever wherever they're going to appear

00:30:17 ◼   ► Or you know even HBO go you don't to be locked out of Game of Thrones because everyone slams HBO go because they try to

00:30:23 ◼   ► Broadcast it simultaneously, and it doesn't work right. I never have that problem

00:30:26 ◼   ► I watch Game of Thrones exactly when it airs it's important enough to me that I pay for HBO right so it's either because you

00:30:32 ◼   ► Want to watch it now because you're super impatient and have a lot of disposable income or because there's something you literally can't get any

00:30:37 ◼   ► Place else like local sports because there's a local TV blackout and all sorts of other crap like that

00:30:42 ◼   ► And so that's the market for this thing.

00:30:45 ◼   ► I just think even those people are gonna be like,

00:30:48 ◼   ► geez, is it really worth, I mean,

00:30:50 ◼   ► you bring up cable again, maybe these days you can't get,

00:30:53 ◼   ► maybe this is still cheaper.

00:30:54 ◼   ► Like if you desperately wanna see local sports

00:30:56 ◼   ► but you can't be there for them,

00:30:57 ◼   ► you don't wanna miss a single second

00:30:58 ◼   ► of your favorite team, right?

00:31:00 ◼   ► Maybe this is the cheapest option.

00:31:02 ◼   ► What else?

00:31:02 ◼   ► Because the cheapest you can get a cable,

00:31:04 ◼   ► like if you say, give me the most basic of all basic cable,

00:31:07 ◼   ► because like I mentioned, a cable company is DVR,

00:31:10 ◼   ► but then I realized, if you get a cable company's DVR,

00:31:13 ◼   ► you have to pay for cable.

00:31:14 ◼   ► And how cheaply can you pay for cable?

00:31:15 ◼   ► It's probably more expensive than this.

00:31:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, well basic cable is usually about 15 bucks a month,

00:31:21 ◼   ► but usually by the time you add all the fees and everything,

00:31:23 ◼   ► and it's pretty hard to get those kind of plans these days.

00:31:24 ◼   ► - $15, I would guess it was like you couldn't get

00:31:27 ◼   ► any cable television with any signal over at your house

00:31:30 ◼   ► less than like $40 a month.

00:31:32 ◼   ► - That's standard cable, but I'm talking about basic.

00:31:34 ◼   ► There is almost always a level below standard,

00:31:37 ◼   ► they don't really advertise very much,

00:31:38 ◼   ► but you can ask for it.

00:31:39 ◼   ► This is the level I had growing up, which basically has the networks plus WGN and a

00:31:43 ◼   ► couple other, you know, not a great selection.

00:31:46 ◼   ► The problem I see with this is that it is, you know, compared to what cord cutters pay

00:31:52 ◼   ► for things, this is not expensive, but it's mid-priced, I would say, compared to everything

00:31:56 ◼   ► else.

00:31:58 ◼   ► It's also, though, substantially worse than a real standard cable package.

00:32:04 ◼   ► if you if you have an ATSC antenna and you get enough reception like you can get

00:32:10 ◼   ► Most of the value of this for free. You're just not getting the DVR part. Oh, yeah, you're not getting the commercials

00:32:15 ◼   ► All you're paying for is yeah commercials and in times shifting, but that's like that's worthwhile speaking of you know

00:32:21 ◼   ► That's the worst watching live TV when you can't skip commercials like that is the real bottom

00:32:25 ◼   ► But then like the best you can do is mute during commercials like that is really going back to Windows to use your analogy

00:32:31 ◼   ► Let's go back to DOS having to skip commercials. It's not so bad and

00:32:35 ◼   ► Depending on like I think it's the the AMC shows don't even have that many commercial breaks, but anyway, that's cable

00:32:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know I like I think if you like the experience of

00:32:46 ◼   ► you know being able to time shift and being able to see the shows when you want to see them without having to wait another

00:32:51 ◼   ► day or whatever and and frankly the reliability of you know of

00:32:55 ◼   ► Knowing that you're not gonna get locked out of HBO go and you're not gonna have string problems or whatever or you're not gonna be

00:33:01 ◼   ► subject to stupid ISPs, you know, throttling your Netflix bandwidth and all

00:33:06 ◼   ► sorts of other terrible things that are going on. DVRs like this are still the

00:33:11 ◼   ► most reliable way to get TV when you want it, but I just

00:33:17 ◼   ► think this is not a very good TiVo because it's so expensive monthly and if

00:33:21 ◼   ► you like this, like save more money, I mean you can literally save more

00:33:25 ◼   ► like the CNET did the math and said if you keep this thing for three years

00:33:28 ◼   ► It's like the most expensive device TiVo sells because it's so much cheaper to just get one of the more expensive TiVos and just buy

00:33:33 ◼   ► A lifetime subscription and then keep it for more than three years

00:33:35 ◼   ► You know what? I don't understand is if you're a cord cutter

00:33:40 ◼   ► Oftentimes I would imagine it's because you don't want to spend the money on something that you may not

00:33:47 ◼   ► either enjoy that much or use that much or what have you and

00:33:51 ◼   ► So if you're in that mindset where you're either

00:33:55 ◼   ► I don't mean frugal dismissively, but I can't think of a better word so frugal

00:34:00 ◼   ► or what or whatever the reason is you're cost-sensitive and

00:34:04 ◼   ► Then you're gonna then TiVo saying well actually now that you've saved money by cutting the cord

00:34:09 ◼   ► Why don't you pay us $15 a month for something that really doesn't have?

00:34:15 ◼   ► That much benefit other than maybe skipping commercials and maybe doing a little bit of time shifting

00:34:21 ◼   ► But to me if I'm in that mindset of I'm trying to save money and that's my priority

00:34:26 ◼   ► Then I'll just sit through the damn commercials. It's really not that big a deal. No you

00:34:31 ◼   ► Can't go back to sitting through commercials. Just you just can't oh I do it. I have a DVR. I do it all the time

00:34:37 ◼   ► Oh, I can't do it anyway like the other advantages gives you is the four tuners if you just watch network TV

00:34:44 ◼   ► So you're a bunch of old people you give this to your grandparents or something and all they watch is network TV

00:34:47 ◼   ► And they have a couple favorite shows, but there's time conflict this solves the problem

00:34:51 ◼   ► Right. Yeah, and you can tune to all four of the OTA channels you can actually receive and record them all the same time

00:34:56 ◼   ► You can see all of your TV at the same time. That's the problem. Like it's it's applying a great feature set to

00:35:03 ◼   ► What most people will consider woefully inadequate input like even people who watch network TV shows regularly

00:35:10 ◼   ► They probably also watch cable network shows. Yeah, at least one. There's also other things they want to see like that

00:35:16 ◼   ► That's why I'm thinking like this won't appeal to people who like to like TV too much to cancel cable

00:35:21 ◼   ► it won't appeal to them and it won't appeal to cord cutters because it is both too expensive and not good enough, but

00:35:30 ◼   ► The expensiveness is hidden like the only reason that I think this is an interesting product at all is because they chose to price it

00:35:35 ◼   ► at $50 that's the only reason that it's even worth discussing because I think that will get people to try it and

00:35:41 ◼   ► And I think TiVo is just hoping that they'll try it.

00:35:45 ◼   ► We'll get a little bit of money out of them.

00:35:47 ◼   ► They've probably calculated that the $15 a month

00:35:49 ◼   ► will make up the purpose.

00:35:50 ◼   ► This thing costs more than $50 to make, I'm sure, right?

00:35:52 ◼   ► So we'll get the money out of them

00:35:54 ◼   ► from our outrageous monthly fee.

00:35:56 ◼   ► Maybe a couple of those people we will convert to,

00:35:59 ◼   ► oh, this is terrible, but I would get cable again

00:36:02 ◼   ► if my interface to it was this

00:36:04 ◼   ► instead of whatever it was before.

00:36:06 ◼   ► - All right.

00:36:07 ◼   ► So let's talk about something else.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Let's talk about version numbering.

00:36:13 ◼   ► And today, we had a little bit of news

00:36:19 ◼   ► insofar as there's a new release from our friends at Lickability.

00:36:23 ◼   ► And we're probably going to talk about that

00:36:24 ◼   ► in just a few minutes.

00:36:25 ◼   ► But Brian Capps from Lickability wrote a very interesting

00:36:29 ◼   ► and relatively brief post on version numbering.

00:36:33 ◼   ► And I thought it was a really good post because in summary,

00:36:38 ◼   ► What Brian had said was, you know, version numbering, especially for major versions,

00:36:45 ◼   ► you really don't need a decimal or even multiple decimals.

00:36:50 ◼   ► When you're on version three of an app, just hypothetically, it doesn't need to be 3.0.

00:36:56 ◼   ► It doesn't need to be 3.0.0.

00:36:58 ◼   ► It can be just plain three.

00:37:02 ◼   ► And I just thought, I never really thought about version numbering this way until I read

00:37:06 ◼   ► this post and I thought it was a really interesting take on things and I would definitely love

00:37:12 ◼   ► to hear Marco what your two senses about this and how do you handle these sorts of things

00:37:17 ◼   ► for Overcast?

00:37:18 ◼   ► That's a good question.

00:37:19 ◼   ► So I stressed a lot about version numbers for Instapaper and I would like you know hold

00:37:27 ◼   ► features like oh I have a big 2.0 coming out soon I better hold back this good feature.

00:37:31 ◼   ► Even with Overcast, there's a great feature that I finally figured out how to do recently,

00:37:37 ◼   ► and I thought, "You know, should I save this for 2.0 at some mystery point in the

00:37:43 ◼   ► future and maybe get people to pay again for something?"

00:37:47 ◼   ► And I thought about it, and then I realized that was a bad idea for various reasons.

00:37:53 ◼   ► But I think version numbers need to exist for technical reasons.

00:38:00 ◼   ► There has to be some kind of identifier for the version for the programmers.

00:38:04 ◼   ► But what you expose to users and to your marketing efforts is of course up to you.

00:38:10 ◼   ► I think it's very important to consider version numbers that you're going to be publicizing

00:38:15 ◼   ► as marketing.

00:38:16 ◼   ► It's part of your marketing message.

00:38:18 ◼   ► And it probably matters less than you think most of the time.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Like, so I submitted an overcast version of 1.03.

00:38:25 ◼   ► That has semantic meaning to programmers.

00:38:27 ◼   ► It means that the base version is 1.0.

00:38:30 ◼   ► It is not a major update because it isn't 1.1, it's 1.0.3.

00:38:34 ◼   ► So it's a minor update, probably mostly bug fixes, not a lot of new features if any.

00:38:39 ◼   ► So that means something to nerds like us.

00:38:42 ◼   ► It doesn't mean crap to regular people.

00:38:45 ◼   ► You see like if you see the version numbers for Facebook or Chrome, like the Facebook

00:38:50 ◼   ► app on iOS or Chrome, they're comical, they're just meaningless numbers.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And we, you know, geeks make fun of them.

00:38:56 ◼   ► Facebook will be like, "Version 12.0, change log, bug fixes."

00:39:00 ◼   ► [laughs]

00:39:04 ◼   ► Chrome is like at version 273,000 something

00:39:08 ◼   ► and Chrome just increments the base number every time.

00:39:12 ◼   ► And the fact is, they don't really matter

00:39:16 ◼   ► to almost anybody. The very, very few people

00:39:20 ◼   ► who--oh sorry, I was corrected in the chatroom. The current version of Chrome is

00:39:24 ◼   ► 0.2125.24 dev 64 bit.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Cool.

00:39:32 ◼   ► Not great for marketing, not a very human readable version,

00:39:33 ◼   ► but it doesn't matter.

00:39:37 ◼   ► If you're going to make a major update,

00:39:38 ◼   ► yeah, it makes sense to do a new version.

00:39:41 ◼   ► That carries meaning to people,

00:39:43 ◼   ► and that is how you can base your marketing around.

00:39:45 ◼   ► It's easier for marketing if you cluster together

00:39:50 ◼   ► big releases or big changes into these big

00:39:52 ◼   ► whole number releases.

00:39:54 ◼   ► I think there's also a good argument to be made,

00:39:56 ◼   ► which I believe Casey posted in the show,

00:39:58 ◼   ► somebody's posted in the show notes.

00:39:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna guess John, 'cause I don't think

00:40:00 ◼   ► Casey reads Coding Horror that much.

00:40:02 ◼   ► - No, I don't.

00:40:02 ◼   ► - Yes, I got it right?

00:40:03 ◼   ► All right, so John must have put the infinite version

00:40:06 ◼   ► when Jeff Atwood's post on Coding Horror,

00:40:08 ◼   ► we'll put this in the show notes.

00:40:10 ◼   ► I haven't read this post, but I have a feeling

00:40:12 ◼   ► I can figure out what it's about from the title,

00:40:14 ◼   ► which is does it really matter what version you're ever on,

00:40:17 ◼   ► just keep adding features whenever you can, and--

00:40:20 ◼   ► - That's not quite what it's about.

00:40:21 ◼   ► It's actually a pretty old post,

00:40:22 ◼   ► But I've linked to it like 1,000 times,

00:40:24 ◼   ► because it's one of those trends that I think some people have

00:40:29 ◼   ► seen coming.

00:40:30 ◼   ► I mean, this is like 2011.

00:40:32 ◼   ► I've been in favor.

00:40:33 ◼   ► I've been seen coming for a long time.

00:40:35 ◼   ► But other people are either blind to or are against,

00:40:38 ◼   ► because it's different.

00:40:40 ◼   ► The App Store, in some ways, is kind of holding us back

00:40:43 ◼   ► from this, because in the App Store,

00:40:46 ◼   ► if you want to charge money, like Marco

00:40:48 ◼   ► was just alluding to before, if you decide

00:40:50 ◼   ► to charge money for Tweety, you have to market it differently.

00:40:55 ◼   ► You have to say it's Tweety 2, and I suppose 2 might not

00:40:58 ◼   ► necessarily be a version number.

00:40:59 ◼   ► It could be like a Roman numeral, like a sequel,

00:41:01 ◼   ► like a movie sequel.

00:41:02 ◼   ► But you are forced to do something marketing-wise

00:41:05 ◼   ► to differentiate the new version from the old one

00:41:07 ◼   ► because you want to charge money for it again because there's

00:41:09 ◼   ► no upgrade pricing.

00:41:10 ◼   ► So that is possibly keeping versioning alive.

00:41:14 ◼   ► That and the fact that apps don't auto update--

00:41:17 ◼   ► I think this is true.

00:41:18 ◼   ► in iOS they still don't auto update by default.

00:41:20 ◼   ► I know it prompts you and it wants you to tell them

00:41:22 ◼   ► to auto update but I don't think it does it by default.

00:41:24 ◼   ► Is that correct?

00:41:25 ◼   ► Anyone know?

00:41:25 ◼   ► - No, I thought it was by default.

00:41:27 ◼   ► - Well, if it does, I can never keep track

00:41:30 ◼   ► with it, I think the Mac doesn't do it,

00:41:31 ◼   ► maybe iOS does, but anyway.

00:41:32 ◼   ► - I think that's right.

00:41:33 ◼   ► - What the Coding Horror Post is about is what Chrome did is

00:41:36 ◼   ► you have no choice.

00:41:37 ◼   ► If you run Chrome and you ever quit Chrome and relaunch it

00:41:41 ◼   ► like it will update itself,

00:41:42 ◼   ► it had been quietly downloading an update to itself,

00:41:44 ◼   ► the next time you launch it will install that update.

00:41:47 ◼   ► It doesn't really bother you too much about it.

00:41:49 ◼   ► It used to be a little bit more intrusive

00:41:51 ◼   ► and give you more options to defer it

00:41:53 ◼   ► or maybe say no or whatever,

00:41:54 ◼   ► but Chrome is going to update itself.

00:41:55 ◼   ► And this, I think, is exactly the right strategy

00:41:58 ◼   ► for web browsers today,

00:42:00 ◼   ► because you don't wanna get into an IE situation

00:42:03 ◼   ► where it's just old versions of IE,

00:42:05 ◼   ► you just can't get people off.

00:42:06 ◼   ► You have to be drop support for XP,

00:42:08 ◼   ► people still use it, or re-extend support for XP,

00:42:10 ◼   ► or it's just, it's terrible.

00:42:12 ◼   ► Like, you need browsers to be up to date.

00:42:13 ◼   ► And so Google's approach is,

00:42:15 ◼   ► If you run Chrome, we will shove the current version

00:42:17 ◼   ► down your throat.

00:42:18 ◼   ► Just deal with it.

00:42:19 ◼   ► And that's the infinite version.

00:42:20 ◼   ► It's like, do you have Chrome?

00:42:23 ◼   ► It's not what Chrome do you have.

00:42:24 ◼   ► Yes, I have Chrome.

00:42:25 ◼   ► What is Chrome?

00:42:25 ◼   ► Chrome is whatever Google says it is now.

00:42:27 ◼   ► And it will change over time.

00:42:29 ◼   ► And Google has no problem.

00:42:30 ◼   ► We'll totally change the UI.

00:42:31 ◼   ► We'll move menu commands around.

00:42:33 ◼   ► It drives some people nuts.

00:42:34 ◼   ► It drives me nuts sometimes.

00:42:35 ◼   ► I'm trying to get that stupid bell out of the menu bar

00:42:36 ◼   ► for the millionth time.

00:42:38 ◼   ► But that is the correct approach.

00:42:39 ◼   ► Not to the UI, obviously, but for the rendering engines.

00:42:42 ◼   ► That's the correct approach for the web.

00:42:43 ◼   ► every browser updated itself like Chrome as a web developer because they wouldn't have to deal with IE 8 anymore because everyone would be

00:42:48 ◼   ► Infinitely updated to Chrome 37, which I think is latest stable 38 is like the canary thing

00:42:53 ◼   ► And maybe 37 is beta and 36 is main. I don't know anyway, but the point is I don't want to know

00:42:57 ◼   ► I just want to know you've got Chrome then I then you have the latest Chrome and there are you know

00:43:01 ◼   ► There's different channels to get you know more bleeding edge of Chrome's but in general

00:43:04 ◼   ► That is a much nicer place to be now. Is that the appropriate versioning technique for every single application?

00:43:09 ◼   ► Maybe not today, but I think in the future

00:43:12 ◼   ► That is a much more viable approach from users perspective because usually users hate upgrades

00:43:16 ◼   ► They don't want to do them and it's kind of like kind of like autosave where people like but but what if I wanted to?

00:43:21 ◼   ► Keep the old version. I don't want you shoving the new version down my throat and blah blah blah

00:43:24 ◼   ► It's exactly the same thing people will say about autosave

00:43:26 ◼   ► They'd be like but what if I don't I just want to speculatively make changes

00:43:29 ◼   ► I don't want to automatically save I want to manually hit the save button, but nobody says that about iOS

00:43:33 ◼   ► Nobody says I need a save button and notepad if you sometimes it is speculatively type things into my notes

00:43:38 ◼   ► I would need a button to save it don't autosave

00:43:40 ◼   ► No

00:43:40 ◼   ► It's just something that people out there used to all of us will die

00:43:43 ◼   ► Future people will think it's crazy that we ever had to push a button to manually update our software

00:43:47 ◼   ► And it will just be accepted as the way things are and at that point

00:43:51 ◼   ► Yeah, the version number can just be a random string of letters doesn't matter. It's just it's just the unique

00:43:56 ◼   ► It could be they could be you know use UUIDs for versionals who cares like it's totally pointless

00:44:00 ◼   ► so that's where I think we're going and

00:44:05 ◼   ► hemming and hawing over whether it's 3.0 or 3 is kind of pointless.

00:44:09 ◼   ► I think the only thing that matters about versioning now on the App Store is, like Marco said, for marketing purposes,

00:44:14 ◼   ► and then developers can pick whatever they want. Because, believe me, nobody but us ever looks at that number

00:44:18 ◼   ► that's in light gray text next to Facebook. They don't even read the release notes.

00:44:21 ◼   ► They just, you know, if it's auto-updated by default, they just notice that it's a blue dot next to it,

00:44:25 ◼   ► and they don't know what that means, and they tap on it. It goes away.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Does it even get the blue dot if it's auto-updated? I don't think it does.

00:44:29 ◼   ► Well, maybe not.

00:44:31 ◼   ► But what Brian's point was in this article was not that version numbers should go away,

00:44:36 ◼   ► but that we should care about the version numbers and present them nicely to people

00:44:40 ◼   ► when it's significant.

00:44:41 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think that's not...

00:44:43 ◼   ► I don't think that's that important.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Like I think you don't present a version number to people, you present a product name to people,

00:44:50 ◼   ► and Tweety Two is a product name.

00:44:52 ◼   ► And is that two a version number?

00:44:53 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:44:54 ◼   ► Who cares?

00:44:55 ◼   ► Right, exactly.

00:44:56 ◼   ► more like, is Tweety Two still the product name a month

00:44:59 ◼   ► after it's out, or is it just Tweety then?

00:45:02 ◼   ► - It's Tweety Two 1.0.

00:45:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:04 ◼   ► It's the first version of Tweety Two.

00:45:06 ◼   ► - I don't know about that.

00:45:07 ◼   ► - You're like, getting tangled up in version numbers

00:45:10 ◼   ► is something that really only we,

00:45:11 ◼   ► like I guarantee if you asked a random person

00:45:14 ◼   ► if they know the version number of any apps on their phone,

00:45:17 ◼   ► or you know, they have no idea.

00:45:18 ◼   ► In fact, the only reason, the only app that Marco

00:45:21 ◼   ► probably knows the version number is his own apps.

00:45:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, pretty much.

00:45:24 ◼   ► - You tell me what version, nobody knows.

00:45:25 ◼   ► And we look at the release note.

00:45:27 ◼   ► I do manual updates.

00:45:28 ◼   ► I turn down the little disclosure thing

00:45:30 ◼   ► to see what they change so I can see their one sentence

00:45:32 ◼   ► thing that says bug fixes or whatever they're going to say.

00:45:34 ◼   ► I actually read that and I don't know the version numbers.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - It's interesting to me that over the last few years

00:45:40 ◼   ► it's gotten to be important to consider URLs.

00:45:45 ◼   ► We were just talking about this with Apple earlier.

00:45:48 ◼   ► And having clean and easy to understand URLs

00:45:55 ◼   ► has gotten pretty important.

00:45:56 ◼   ► And maybe I'm--

00:45:57 ◼   ► Wait, wait, wait.

00:45:58 ◼   ► What do you say, gotten pretty important?

00:45:59 ◼   ► What do you mean by that?

00:46:00 ◼   ► You think this is a recent development?

00:46:02 ◼   ► In the last few years.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Maybe I'm looking at this through a very Microsoft

00:46:05 ◼   ► developer lens.

00:46:06 ◼   ► But in years past, especially in the Microsoft community,

00:46:10 ◼   ► having these god-awful URLs with .aspx on the end of it

00:46:13 ◼   ► all over the place, yeah, it's just the way it was.

00:46:15 ◼   ► No big deal.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Yeah, but yeah, that's always been gross over there.

00:46:18 ◼   ► Believe me, the cleaning realm has been important from day one

00:46:20 ◼   ► on the web.

00:46:21 ◼   ► It's just, I agree with you.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Microsoft has historically not considered

00:46:24 ◼   ► that to be the case, but we've all been laughing at them.

00:46:27 ◼   ► - Well, okay, and I think it's more than just Microsoft.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Do you remember when, what was it,

00:46:33 ◼   ► the exclamation hash that Twitter was doing?

00:46:36 ◼   ► Did I get that right?

00:46:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, that was because they didn't,

00:46:39 ◼   ► they thought their browsers didn't support

00:46:41 ◼   ► history push state, and so they used this crazy thing.

00:46:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was like six months

00:46:45 ◼   ► where every major website started doing

00:46:46 ◼   ► the bang hash thing when they picked up JavaScript

00:46:49 ◼   ► as an everything all-encompassing framework for their site.

00:46:53 ◼   ► It was a very dark time.

00:46:54 ◼   ► That was worse than 52X CD-ROM drives.

00:46:56 ◼   ► - And now web plays just say, you know what, screw you.

00:46:59 ◼   ► You better be using a browser that supports history.

00:47:01 ◼   ► I think even IE8 supports that,

00:47:03 ◼   ► you don't have to do that kind of hack anymore.

00:47:05 ◼   ► That's why everyone's using Chrome

00:47:06 ◼   ► 'cause we could have all been updated to that sooner.

00:47:08 ◼   ► The one I always think of is the hilarious city desk URLs

00:47:12 ◼   ► that Joel still has on the--

00:47:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, with all the zeros?

00:47:14 ◼   ► - Zero padding, like that's the type of thing,

00:47:16 ◼   ► I don't wanna pick on Fog Creek and those guys over there,

00:47:20 ◼   ► but like there are windows,

00:47:23 ◼   ► people founded by someone who spent a lot

00:47:26 ◼   ► of his formative years in Microsoft.

00:47:27 ◼   ► I don't know if it's a cause and effect

00:47:29 ◼   ► or just a correlation, but can you imagine anybody

00:47:32 ◼   ► who's sort of in the Apple nerd, Apple enthusiast camp

00:47:36 ◼   ► ever choosing that as a URL structure?

00:47:40 ◼   ► Even if, forget about your personal website

00:47:42 ◼   ► where you're gonna hand tune everything.

00:47:43 ◼   ► If you're making a product for other people to use,

00:47:45 ◼   ► you would still be like,

00:47:47 ◼   ► God, I don't want people to use my product

00:47:48 ◼   ► and have their URLs look like this,

00:47:49 ◼   ► but Joel was like, good, good to go, thumbs up.

00:47:52 ◼   ► I think he got shamed into changing the URLs

00:47:54 ◼   ► in that software so they're not quite as ugly.

00:47:57 ◼   ► - And I can't even imagine that was an easy change to make.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Like whatever reason it was that way,

00:48:01 ◼   ► which I assume the reason it was that way at first

00:48:05 ◼   ► was so that file names would sort in order

00:48:07 ◼   ► because this would be for any OS did natural number sorting

00:48:11 ◼   ► in its file browsers.

00:48:12 ◼   ► - Oh no, didn't they use a database backend?

00:48:15 ◼   ► I assume it's just so they could have a big zero padded

00:48:17 ◼   ► number that he would increment 'cause he's a Windows user.

00:48:19 ◼   ► He just wanted to like it.

00:48:20 ◼   ► He wanted to do like a sprintf present 0.52s or whatever,

00:48:26 ◼   ► a d for the--

00:48:27 ◼   ► Anyway, the point I'm driving at is,

00:48:29 ◼   ► looking at this from a Windows developer's point of view,

00:48:32 ◼   ► REST-style URLs got popular, I don't know,

00:48:36 ◼   ► four or five years ago, maybe a little more than that now.

00:48:38 ◼   ► And all of a sudden, all the Windows developers, Windows web

00:48:40 ◼   ► developers, were like, oh, holy crap.

00:48:42 ◼   ► We should kind of take URLs seriously.

00:48:44 ◼   ► And so over the last few years, again, from my point of view,

00:48:48 ◼   ► over the last few years, it got to be really important to have really clean URLs.

00:48:52 ◼   ► And it's interesting to me that that same care put into URLs and sweating of the details,

00:49:01 ◼   ► those of us who do native applications just didn't really have a similar amount of care

00:49:06 ◼   ► for version numbering.

00:49:07 ◼   ► And I think that Brian's point was just, "Hey, we should care about this."

00:49:12 ◼   ► And this is marketing.

00:49:14 ◼   ► It can be important to some users and you should give a crap.

00:49:17 ◼   ► And I think that was mostly his point.

00:49:19 ◼   ► Most people care about version numbers.

00:49:21 ◼   ► As someone in the chat room pointed out, the Mac has had a longstanding tradition of the

00:49:24 ◼   ► three section version numbers for major, minor, and patch version, or major and minor and

00:49:27 ◼   ► update or whatever, like down to the old vers resources that enforce that and that the Finder

00:49:32 ◼   ► would render by reading that resource and parsing them.

00:49:35 ◼   ► But there's always been, it's always kind of a convention.

00:49:39 ◼   ► Like back in the Apple days, there was version numbers with letters in them.

00:49:43 ◼   ► So you could have D releases, which was before alpha, which had a little A in the name.

00:49:47 ◼   ► and then B would have a B, so 1.0, you know, B3 or 1.0, D5,

00:49:52 ◼   ► and then sometimes you get an RC or an FC thrown in there.

00:49:55 ◼   ► These are all like little idioms and conventions

00:49:58 ◼   ► among developers that most users

00:50:00 ◼   ► don't have any interaction with.

00:50:01 ◼   ► But I still think there was care.

00:50:03 ◼   ► It's not like there was a file name extension.

00:50:05 ◼   ► It wasn't like 1.0.5.aspx.

00:50:08 ◼   ► Like that was never, you know,

00:50:09 ◼   ► that was the worst things of the,

00:50:11 ◼   ► the worst of the URLs in the web

00:50:13 ◼   ► was where you would expose the implementation

00:50:15 ◼   ► of your web application through an extension in the URL

00:50:18 ◼   ► as if that had any meaning to anything

00:50:19 ◼   ► except for your crappy server software, right?

00:50:22 ◼   ► Like, do the people on the other end of it care

00:50:24 ◼   ► that it's like a .asp or .pl or .CGI?

00:50:28 ◼   ► Like they don't care.

00:50:30 ◼   ► They don't care what technology used to implement this.

00:50:32 ◼   ► - That's not entirely true

00:50:34 ◼   ► because a lot of people would see /pages/something.aspx

00:50:39 ◼   ► and they would immediately say,

00:50:40 ◼   ► oh, that's SharePoint, this is going to suck.

00:50:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's some of that.

00:50:43 ◼   ► And there was the thing like early proxy servers

00:50:47 ◼   ► would be like, well, I won't cache anything

00:50:49 ◼   ► that has that CGI in the URL and all sorts of stupid crap

00:50:52 ◼   ► like that.

00:50:53 ◼   ► It's the same exact thing as file name extensions

00:50:55 ◼   ► anyplace else.

00:50:56 ◼   ► You are overloading-- you're inlining information

00:50:59 ◼   ► into another location because you feel like there's

00:51:01 ◼   ► no other place to put it.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Only in HTTP, there is totally another place to put it.

00:51:04 ◼   ► And this piece of information doesn't need to put it anywhere

00:51:06 ◼   ► because it doesn't matter to anybody except for the server.

00:51:08 ◼   ► So it's just stupid, and people should not

00:51:10 ◼   ► manage the URL space as if it's invisible.

00:51:14 ◼   ► Now, there's the open question of whether

00:51:16 ◼   ► that should be visible at all,

00:51:17 ◼   ► and we'll talk more about that after Yosemite is released,

00:51:19 ◼   ► I suppose, but we talked about it once when Chrome

00:51:22 ◼   ► tried to do that thing to replace the address bar

00:51:23 ◼   ► with the thing that doesn't show the address anymore.

00:51:27 ◼   ► - Oh, it was the awesome bar or something, right?

00:51:30 ◼   ► Or no, that was Firefox.

00:51:31 ◼   ► - No, it was like a URL, they called it the URL chip.

00:51:34 ◼   ► It was in Chrome Canary for a while.

00:51:36 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:51:36 ◼   ► - Might still be there, I turned it off.

00:51:38 ◼   ► - It was awesome.

00:51:40 ◼   ► So speaking of LickAbility, Marco,

00:51:41 ◼   ► is there anything else you'd like to tell us

00:51:42 ◼   ► about these guys?

00:51:43 ◼   ► - As a matter of fact, yes.

00:51:45 ◼   ► So we had a last minute sponsor dropout

00:51:49 ◼   ► 'cause of a miscommunication this week,

00:51:50 ◼   ► and literally about an hour before we recorded the show,

00:51:54 ◼   ► we went to Twitter and said, "Hey, anybody want this spot?"

00:51:56 ◼   ► And our friends at LickAbility jumped at it.

00:51:58 ◼   ► They were the very first ones to respond and say,

00:52:00 ◼   ► "We want it, we will take it."

00:52:02 ◼   ► And the reason they took it

00:52:03 ◼   ► is because they're awesome people.

00:52:05 ◼   ► LickAbility is three guys, Matthew Bischoff, Brian Capps,

00:52:08 ◼   ► who we just mentioned wrote the article, and Andrew Harrison.

00:52:11 ◼   ► I've definitely hung out with Matthew and Brian a lot.

00:52:15 ◼   ► I think Andrew Harrison, I saw his Twitter picture

00:52:17 ◼   ► on the site, he looks familiar, I'm pretty sure

00:52:19 ◼   ► I've met him, possibly at New York Times

00:52:21 ◼   ► when I went to visit the other two, anyway.

00:52:23 ◼   ► Matthew Bischoff used to be at the New York Times,

00:52:26 ◼   ► he's now at Tumblr, Brian Capps I believe still is

00:52:29 ◼   ► at the New York Times, please correct me if I'm wrong,

00:52:32 ◼   ► and Andrew Harrison, I've seen him somewhere,

00:52:36 ◼   ► so probably at the New York Times.

00:52:37 ◼   ► These are really great guys and if you follow what they do online you can see that yourself.

00:52:43 ◼   ► If you see their work you can see it even more.

00:52:45 ◼   ► These are the people who actually wrote the New York Times app and Matthew now works on

00:52:49 ◼   ► the Tumblr app.

00:52:50 ◼   ► These are really high quality, high skilled people.

00:52:53 ◼   ► I even talked about on debug how if I was going to hire another programmer I would try

00:52:59 ◼   ► very hard to hire Matthew Bischoff although I probably couldn't get him.

00:53:02 ◼   ► But this is how good these people are and what they've chosen to do in their free time

00:53:06 ◼   ► is this company called Lickability.

00:53:09 ◼   ► And Lickability has this app called Quotebook.

00:53:12 ◼   ► And Quotebook version three, there's no dot in that,

00:53:15 ◼   ► there's no zero, there's no large number,

00:53:17 ◼   ► there's no meaningless number, Quotebook version three

00:53:20 ◼   ► was released today in the app store.

00:53:22 ◼   ► So just by coincidence, they released a giant new version,

00:53:25 ◼   ► it's been eight months in the making,

00:53:27 ◼   ► it's a complete redesign and rewrite from the ground up.

00:53:30 ◼   ► And just by coincidence, they released that today,

00:53:32 ◼   ► right as we record, and that's why they decided

00:53:33 ◼   ► to buy this spot.

00:53:34 ◼   ► So, QuoteBook 3 is a universal app for iPhone and iPad that lets you collect quotes that

00:53:40 ◼   ► matter to you and share them anywhere.

00:53:43 ◼   ► You can collect lines from movies, lines from books, song lyrics, crazy stuff you hear in

00:53:48 ◼   ► real life from your friends and family, even quips from Twitter.

00:53:52 ◼   ► You can save tweets directly into it.

00:53:55 ◼   ► All these things are perfect things you can use QuoteBook for.

00:53:57 ◼   ► All of your quotes are synced via iCloud between all of your devices.

00:54:02 ◼   ► I trust these guys to do iCloud right,

00:54:04 ◼   ► 'cause I know they care a lot and they test it a lot.

00:54:07 ◼   ► I was in the beta too.

00:54:08 ◼   ► You should see the things they sweat about,

00:54:12 ◼   ► like the details they worry about are stunning.

00:54:15 ◼   ► Like they really have, they have the attention to detail

00:54:20 ◼   ► that we wish Apple actually had,

00:54:22 ◼   ► that we sometimes think Apple always has,

00:54:24 ◼   ► but a lot of times Apple doesn't.

00:54:27 ◼   ► They have that attention to detail with their stuff.

00:54:29 ◼   ► So anyway, quotes that are saved in QuoteBook 3

00:54:32 ◼   ► can have an author, a source, a rating, and tags.

00:54:36 ◼   ► So you can do all sorts of great organizational

00:54:38 ◼   ► and search options on these.

00:54:40 ◼   ► So for example, you can say show all quotes about Apple,

00:54:43 ◼   ► show all quotes from John Syracuse.

00:54:46 ◼   ► That's just one tap in the interface to do stuff like that.

00:54:49 ◼   ► The app is localized into four languages.

00:54:51 ◼   ► It's fully accessible via voiceover

00:54:53 ◼   ► and other accessibility options.

00:54:55 ◼   ► All the good stuff you expect

00:54:56 ◼   ► from high quality app developers.

00:54:58 ◼   ► So new in version 3.

00:55:00 ◼   ► Also, you can now add images and descriptions

00:55:03 ◼   ► to authors and sources.

00:55:04 ◼   ► You can probably have a little John Siracusa head

00:55:06 ◼   ► on his name there.

00:55:08 ◼   ► It can even pull information and pictures

00:55:11 ◼   ► for your authors and sources automatically from Wikipedia,

00:55:14 ◼   ► if you'd like.

00:55:15 ◼   ► I think it's pretty cool.

00:55:16 ◼   ► It's like, come on, this kind of feature is,

00:55:19 ◼   ► like, that's just awesome.

00:55:21 ◼   ► This is what happens when you take people

00:55:23 ◼   ► who are extremely talented at what they do

00:55:26 ◼   ► and you give them what is in theory

00:55:29 ◼   ► a relatively simple database app,

00:55:31 ◼   ► and this is how they do it.

00:55:33 ◼   ► It's pretty crazy.

00:55:35 ◼   ► All the polish they put into this,

00:55:36 ◼   ► all the awesome features they put into this,

00:55:39 ◼   ► they have really, as I said,

00:55:40 ◼   ► they've sweated the details like crazy.

00:55:43 ◼   ► More things, you can autocomplete authors,

00:55:45 ◼   ► sources and tags from within the app,

00:55:47 ◼   ► your contacts, and your music library.

00:55:49 ◼   ► So it scans all these data sources on the phone

00:55:52 ◼   ► for autocomplete information,

00:55:53 ◼   ► so that as you're typing, autocomplete.

00:55:55 ◼   ► So it's not doing anything creepy

00:55:56 ◼   ► anything like sending it to anybody.

00:55:57 ◼   ► It's just a local app that syncs with iCloud.

00:55:59 ◼   ► So these are good people doing good stuff here.

00:56:01 ◼   ► Let me see what else.

00:56:03 ◼   ► They can import quotes from your Tumblr posts

00:56:05 ◼   ► and your Facebook profile.

00:56:07 ◼   ► So you can have something to start with.

00:56:08 ◼   ► You can start organizing things you've already posted.

00:56:11 ◼   ► Really great stuff here.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Good onboarding experience.

00:56:13 ◼   ► We can talk about those for a whole episode as well.

00:56:16 ◼   ► You can then share your quotes after you save them

00:56:18 ◼   ► or look them up later.

00:56:19 ◼   ► You can share them too.

00:56:20 ◼   ► Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Day One.

00:56:24 ◼   ► Now, auto detection even works,

00:56:26 ◼   ► so it will detect a quote on your clipboard from iBooks,

00:56:29 ◼   ► and it will even extract and parse

00:56:31 ◼   ► the relevant book and author automatically.

00:56:33 ◼   ► So if you hit something in iBooks,

00:56:35 ◼   ► select something in iBooks, hit quote,

00:56:37 ◼   ► switch over to a quote book,

00:56:38 ◼   ► and it will recognize all that stuff for you.

00:56:41 ◼   ► Anyway, this is really great.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Go to quotebookapp.com.

00:56:45 ◼   ► Once again, that is quotebookapp.com.

00:56:48 ◼   ► Download the app or just search for quote book,

00:56:50 ◼   ► one word in the App Store.

00:56:52 ◼   ► It's five bucks, and I can tell you,

00:56:53 ◼   ► this is worth every penny.

00:56:55 ◼   ► I was gonna say I wish these guys would do even more apps,

00:57:00 ◼   ► but the amount of politics they put into this one,

00:57:03 ◼   ► it's just, oh man, I just want them to keep doing this.

00:57:06 ◼   ► Again, it's a concept, the idea of an app to save quotes in

00:57:11 ◼   ► sounds simple, but there's so many ways

00:57:14 ◼   ► that it could have been done with mediocrity,

00:57:16 ◼   ► and they did such an incredibly awesome job with it,

00:57:20 ◼   ► and they have such great values and such great talent,

00:57:22 ◼   ► and it really shows through.

00:57:23 ◼   ► So anyway, thank you very much to Lookability

00:57:26 ◼   ► for sponsoring our show for Quotebook.

00:57:27 ◼   ► Go to quotebookapp.com or look up Quotebook

00:57:30 ◼   ► in the app store.

00:57:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, we really appreciate them jumping in

00:57:33 ◼   ► at the last minute like that.

00:57:36 ◼   ► All right, we got a question from a listener

00:57:39 ◼   ► regarding the podcast Patent Troll.

00:57:43 ◼   ► And the question was basically,

00:57:45 ◼   ► why the crap aren't you three talking about this?

00:57:48 ◼   ► I can't verbalize my feelings about it

00:57:51 ◼   ► other than I think it's crummy,

00:57:53 ◼   ► But I don't know, John or Marco,

00:57:55 ◼   ► which if ever one of you added this to the show notes,

00:57:57 ◼   ► would you care to explain why you didn't want

00:57:59 ◼   ► to talk about it?

00:58:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, I put it in there and I think,

00:58:01 ◼   ► well first, to recap what it is,

00:58:03 ◼   ► there's some patent troll out there that--

00:58:06 ◼   ► - Personal audio.

00:58:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, that thinks they have a patent

00:58:09 ◼   ► on like podcasting basically.

00:58:10 ◼   ► And said, "You are doing anything

00:58:11 ◼   ► "that looks like a podcast.

00:58:13 ◼   ► "We have the patent on that and you would have never thought

00:58:15 ◼   ► "to do it without our hard work

00:58:16 ◼   ► "and we need to search for you paid

00:58:17 ◼   ► "and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

00:58:18 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:19 ◼   ► And they've gone after lots of different podcasters.

00:58:21 ◼   ► One of the ones they went after was Adam Carolla,

00:58:23 ◼   ► who has a very popular podcast.

00:58:25 ◼   ► Is it the world's most popular podcast?

00:58:27 ◼   ► It's very popular anyway.

00:58:28 ◼   ► And they did a big lawsuit and he raised a bunch of money

00:58:31 ◼   ► along with the EFF, helped me fight off this patent troll.

00:58:34 ◼   ► He raised like half a million dollars.

00:58:35 ◼   ► He was going to lawsuit with them.

00:58:37 ◼   ► They decided to drop the suit for whatever reason.

00:58:40 ◼   ► Like they might've thought that like

00:58:41 ◼   ► they didn't have as much money as he thought.

00:58:44 ◼   ► They dropped it in a way that they can file it again.

00:58:46 ◼   ► For a little while it looked like

00:58:48 ◼   ► was going to try to continue the fight anyway, but basically they both bailed out. They both

00:58:53 ◼   ► reserved the right to go back at it again in the future. EFF is still trying to get

00:58:58 ◼   ► their patent invalidated, which if this is the same world should be easy because their

00:59:02 ◼   ► patent is dumb and there's tons of prior arts. Hopefully that will go well. The question

00:59:07 ◼   ► for the listener is why haven't we talked about this? And I think the reason is that,

00:59:12 ◼   ► Well, on Hypercritical, I talked about patents a ton,

00:59:17 ◼   ► and basically I am not in favor of any patents on anything.

00:59:20 ◼   ► So anything that has to do with patents is kind of like--

00:59:24 ◼   ► I'm not going to argue about this.

00:59:25 ◼   ► It solves the entire, what's your position on this?

00:59:27 ◼   ► I think patents shouldn't exist.

00:59:28 ◼   ► Next question, right?

00:59:29 ◼   ► So that's all I have to say about that.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Marco has a similar anti-patent stance,

00:59:34 ◼   ► maybe not as severe as mine.

00:59:37 ◼   ► No, it's the same.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:38 ◼   ► And so we're not going to get into the nuances

00:59:41 ◼   ► of this type of thing.

00:59:42 ◼   ► Yeah, so we all think this patent troll is terrible. We think patents is terrible at Casey. What do you how do you feel about patents?

00:59:47 ◼   ► Um, I don't think I have nearly as strong an opinion about it. Certainly. I don't think software patents should be a thing

00:59:53 ◼   ► I think that's kind of insane regular patents

00:59:56 ◼   ► I haven't really put enough thought into into it to come to any particular conclusion, but I don't know

01:00:03 ◼   ► That's a very good non answer I suppose

01:00:05 ◼   ► The real reason we haven't talked about it though is because the patent system is so absurd and ridiculous

01:00:11 ◼   ► is that there's nothing to talk about.

01:00:12 ◼   ► Like if they decide to come after us, we're screwed, right?

01:00:15 ◼   ► And that's true of anybody because the patents,

01:00:17 ◼   ► to litigate a patent case costs way more

01:00:19 ◼   ► than half a million dollars.

01:00:20 ◼   ► If Adam Carolla wanted to actually go through

01:00:22 ◼   ► with this case, like if they hadn't dropped it,

01:00:24 ◼   ► he would have needed to raise millions of more dollars,

01:00:26 ◼   ► even when you're in the right.

01:00:27 ◼   ► And usually you don't get your legal fees back

01:00:29 ◼   ► because they all have these things take place

01:00:31 ◼   ► in some East Texas court that's incredibly favorable

01:00:34 ◼   ► to patent trolls.

01:00:35 ◼   ► And it's just, it's a terrible rigged system

01:00:38 ◼   ► that punishes everybody and there's no point in discussing it.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Like, it's like, why don't we discuss

01:00:46 ◼   ► whether we get struck by lightning?

01:00:47 ◼   ► If we get struck by lightning, we're dead.

01:00:49 ◼   ► There's nothing you can do about it, right?

01:00:50 ◼   ► We can't even put little lightning rods on.

01:00:52 ◼   ► So the patent system is terrible.

01:00:54 ◼   ► Hopefully we are small enough

01:00:55 ◼   ► that no one will ever come after us.

01:00:56 ◼   ► If they do, we're screwed.

01:00:57 ◼   ► We all hate patents to the end.

01:01:00 ◼   ► - The interesting thing about this case,

01:01:02 ◼   ► one of the interesting things about this case,

01:01:04 ◼   ► is it really what appears to have happened,

01:01:06 ◼   ► The patent is not from somebody familiar with podcasting.

01:01:10 ◼   ► The patent, if I remember correctly,

01:01:12 ◼   ► from a write-up on ours forever ago,

01:01:14 ◼   ► I believe it was something like some guy

01:01:15 ◼   ► was sending cassette tapes through the mail.

01:01:18 ◼   ► - What? - Yeah.

01:01:19 ◼   ► It's bogus-y within the realm of bogus patents.

01:01:22 ◼   ► Even if you believe totally in patents,

01:01:23 ◼   ► you would look at this and you'd be like,

01:01:25 ◼   ► "What, they want money from everybody who does podcasts now?"

01:01:28 ◼   ► It was updated, I think, to not be tapes in the mail.

01:01:31 ◼   ► Whatever, it doesn't even matter.

01:01:32 ◼   ► That's why it doesn't matter.

01:01:33 ◼   ► I was arguing about the nuances of this.

01:01:35 ◼   ► If you believe patents as a concept shouldn't exist,

01:01:37 ◼   ► who cares about the nuances?

01:01:38 ◼   ► That's why I don't really have any interest in like,

01:01:41 ◼   ► well, is it about tapes or about this?

01:01:43 ◼   ► And more like, it's just bogus.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Even if he had exactly come out

01:01:47 ◼   ► with the entire concept of podcasting,

01:01:50 ◼   ► it's stupid because I've never heard of him

01:01:52 ◼   ► until he started suing people.

01:01:53 ◼   ► So obviously I didn't get the idea for podcasting from him.

01:01:55 ◼   ► Oh, you got it from the person who got it

01:01:56 ◼   ► from the person who got it from him?

01:01:57 ◼   ► Like, I don't care.

01:01:58 ◼   ► They don't think they deserve any money.

01:02:00 ◼   ► That's not how I wish the world worked.

01:02:02 ◼   ► But it is the way our legal system works.

01:02:04 ◼   ► So we just basically shut up and hide, right, more or less.

01:02:07 ◼   ► - Pretty much, I mean, 'cause you're right.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Like, it is pretty much a crapshoot

01:02:11 ◼   ► with patent lawsuit threats from patent trolls,

01:02:14 ◼   ► or even, you know, the term patent troll

01:02:17 ◼   ► is thrown around here, and there's a lot of scapegoating

01:02:20 ◼   ► that, oh, well, patent trolls are the problem.

01:02:22 ◼   ► No, not really, patents are the problem.

01:02:24 ◼   ► And it doesn't really matter who owns them.

01:02:26 ◼   ► Patents themselves are the problem.

01:02:28 ◼   ► And even when used entirely in the way

01:02:31 ◼   ► that people's like storybook version

01:02:33 ◼   ► of what they think patents are for,

01:02:36 ◼   ► protecting some small inventor,

01:02:37 ◼   ► even when used in that exact, quote, intended way

01:02:41 ◼   ► by people who are really making things supposedly

01:02:44 ◼   ► and really need protection.

01:02:46 ◼   ► Even then, they don't work.

01:02:48 ◼   ► Even then, they're a net loss on society.

01:02:51 ◼   ► And that story is so rarely even the case,

01:02:54 ◼   ► and all the other times they're used

01:02:56 ◼   ► are way worse than that.

01:02:57 ◼   ► The problem is not trolls, the problem is patents.

01:03:02 ◼   ► And because of the way our civil legal system

01:03:05 ◼   ► is set up in the US, you know, John was right,

01:03:07 ◼   ► like if you're attacked by somebody

01:03:10 ◼   ► with an actual filed lawsuit,

01:03:13 ◼   ► or the threat of filing a lawsuit,

01:03:15 ◼   ► there's pretty much nothing you can do except, you know,

01:03:20 ◼   ► comply with whatever settlement offer they make you,

01:03:22 ◼   ► and give them money.

01:03:24 ◼   ► It's really quite a racket,

01:03:27 ◼   ► but there's nothing more anybody can really intelligently do

01:03:31 ◼   ► because what are you gonna do?

01:03:32 ◼   ► Fight it and lose hundreds of thousands, if not more?

01:03:37 ◼   ► - Millions, it will cost you millions of dollars

01:03:39 ◼   ► to win a patent suit.

01:03:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, if it actually goes to trial,

01:03:42 ◼   ► then you're really screwed,

01:03:42 ◼   ► but even just to begin to fight,

01:03:46 ◼   ► even just to begin a lawsuit,

01:03:48 ◼   ► you will lose all of your money,

01:03:50 ◼   ► you will lose tons of time,

01:03:52 ◼   ► you will lose all motivation to work and to do anything,

01:03:56 ◼   ► and for what?

01:03:57 ◼   ► It's a terrible system.

01:04:00 ◼   ► is if anything in this country is a tax on innovation more than the lack of government

01:04:06 ◼   ► healthcare, it's the patent system. It is so incredibly destructive to innovation and

01:04:13 ◼   ► is so destructive to small companies and large companies actually, but small companies just

01:04:17 ◼   ► feel it more I think. And so this is a horrible thing, however, this particular case I don't

01:04:24 ◼   ► think I'm that qualified to talk about because I don't know that much about it. And I agree

01:04:29 ◼   ► with John, it's not really any different than any other case. I think it would have been

01:04:32 ◼   ► great if Adam Carolla and his people succeeded in invalidating this patent because I believe

01:04:40 ◼   ► that's what they were going for.

01:04:42 ◼   ► They wanted to fight it in court and just win the suit and invalidate as part of the

01:04:45 ◼   ► court, but I mean, I don't blame them for settling. Some people are like, "Oh, we gave

01:04:48 ◼   ► you half a million dollars and you just settled." They spent all that money getting to the point

01:04:51 ◼   ► now where they can, you know, get out of it. Like the suit was dropped, the company reserves

01:04:57 ◼   ► the right to file suit again, but it seems like the company has decided that there's

01:05:00 ◼   ► just not enough money to be had there or whatever. But the EFF as an organization I believe is

01:05:04 ◼   ► still going forward with the patent office itself and saying, you can like go to the

01:05:08 ◼   ► patent office and say, we think this patent is invalid and go through this crazy Byzantine

01:05:12 ◼   ► process to try to get it invalidated. And I think EFF is still doing that, independent

01:05:15 ◼   ► of Attica Roll entirely. So we can only hope that like this patent troll, patent troll

01:05:22 ◼   ► probably has 50 more patents that they can throw out, but we can only hope that this

01:05:24 ◼   ► patent drill by raising its head above and like picking on somebody with it with a microphone and some publicity

01:05:29 ◼   ► Has caused the FF decide to go after them and you know

01:05:33 ◼   ► Hopefully they get punished for being publicly terrible instead of privately terrible like a lot sis for example

01:05:39 ◼   ► Oh, you mean like Nathan Mirrold intellectual ventures? Yeah, all those guys. Let's Lena. Let's call it right out there. Yeah. Yes

01:05:45 ◼   ► We all hate patents. Yeah, I forget how much I really hate this stuff until we bring it up again

01:05:51 ◼   ► Maybe I should listen to that episode of Hypercritical

01:05:53 ◼   ► or episodes of Hypercritical one more time

01:05:55 ◼   ► to get myself all fired up.

01:05:57 ◼   ► Oh well.

01:05:58 ◼   ► - We have one more sponsor this week

01:05:59 ◼   ► which is way better than patents.

01:06:01 ◼   ► It is our friends at Squarespace.

01:06:04 ◼   ► Squarespace is the all-in-one platform

01:06:06 ◼   ► that makes it fast and easy

01:06:08 ◼   ► to create your own professional website,

01:06:09 ◼   ► portfolio, and online store.

01:06:12 ◼   ► For a free trial and 10% off,

01:06:14 ◼   ► visit squarespace.com and enter offer code ATP at checkout.

01:06:18 ◼   ► A better web starts with your website.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Now I'm gonna skip the rest of the read for now.

01:06:21 ◼   ► I have a cool Squarespace story this week.

01:06:23 ◼   ► So there's a small organization that my kids involved in

01:06:28 ◼   ► and I volunteered to be on the computer website committee.

01:06:32 ◼   ► They contacted me when I said I wanna be in this committee

01:06:34 ◼   ► and they said, "Oh, good, we're gonna redo

01:06:36 ◼   ► "the website this year.

01:06:37 ◼   ► "We have a budget of $3,000 that we're gonna,

01:06:39 ◼   ► "we need to pick a new web developer to have them redo

01:06:41 ◼   ► "our website for $3,000 and we're also gonna,

01:06:44 ◼   ► "we're gonna go to WordPress and we're gonna buy a theme

01:06:46 ◼   ► "and we're gonna have this designer design us a new theme

01:06:48 ◼   ► and everything, a new template to use for its site.

01:06:50 ◼   ► And I'm like, hold on, give me an hour.

01:06:52 ◼   ► And I literally, in the span of about an hour,

01:06:56 ◼   ► went to Squarespace, took everything off of their old site,

01:06:59 ◼   ► which is one of those 10-page info sites

01:07:01 ◼   ► with a couple of forms here or there.

01:07:03 ◼   ► It's fairly simple, a little gallery, a calendar,

01:07:06 ◼   ► stuff like that.

01:07:07 ◼   ► I took their entire existing site,

01:07:09 ◼   ► imported it into Squarespace, gave it a whole custom theme,

01:07:13 ◼   ► took pictures, put a header image and everything.

01:07:17 ◼   ► I did all of this in an hour.

01:07:18 ◼   ► And I went back to them and I said, "Okay,

01:07:20 ◼   ► "rather than spending that $3,000

01:07:22 ◼   ► "and having some developer involved

01:07:24 ◼   ► "that's gonna be custom work, it's gonna take forever,

01:07:26 ◼   ► "I just did all this for us,

01:07:28 ◼   ► "and we can use that $3,000 for any other purpose

01:07:32 ◼   ► "and just spend 10 bucks a month on this."

01:07:34 ◼   ► And needless to say, I won that bid.

01:07:39 ◼   ► My option won. (laughs)

01:07:41 ◼   ► And this is something that I can set up once,

01:07:45 ◼   ► or they could set it up, I could set it up

01:07:47 ◼   ► and then just hand it over to them.

01:07:49 ◼   ► And they can edit things without messing anything up.

01:07:50 ◼   ► They can change, you know, if they wanna change the colors,

01:07:53 ◼   ► they can change the colors, it's no big deal.

01:07:54 ◼   ► And the best thing is, if they want support,

01:07:56 ◼   ► Squarespace has support, so I don't have to support it.

01:07:58 ◼   ► They can just go to Squarespace,

01:08:00 ◼   ► and they have 24/7 support.

01:08:01 ◼   ► So I think this is, honest, this is all honest to God,

01:08:05 ◼   ► true story, this is what happened.

01:08:07 ◼   ► I'm actually meeting tomorrow to show them the final site,

01:08:10 ◼   ► which took me literally an hour to make,

01:08:12 ◼   ► and saved a good cause, $3,000,

01:08:16 ◼   ► by not having to go do something more complicated than this.

01:08:19 ◼   ► So if you also wanna do that, or for any other reason,

01:08:23 ◼   ► go to squarespace.com and use offer code ATP at checkout.

01:08:27 ◼   ► You can start a trial with no credit card required,

01:08:30 ◼   ► which is what I did.

01:08:30 ◼   ► I started a trial and I showed them the trial account,

01:08:32 ◼   ► URL here, I didn't pay a thing yet.

01:08:34 ◼   ► And then when they say okay,

01:08:35 ◼   ► they're gonna put in their credit card,

01:08:37 ◼   ► and I'm gonna put in our promo code.

01:08:38 ◼   ► And of course, anyway, when you decide to sign up

01:08:43 ◼   ► for Squarespace, you should also put in our promo code,

01:08:45 ◼   ► if you heard it most recently.

01:08:46 ◼   ► Otherwise, put in whichever one you heard most recently

01:08:48 ◼   ► in your favorite podcast, but use our promo code ATP.

01:08:51 ◼   ► It'll get you 10% off anything at Squarespace

01:08:54 ◼   ► in your first purchase,

01:08:55 ◼   ► and it'll show your support for our show.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Thank you very much to Squarespace

01:08:59 ◼   ► for supporting our show.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Once again, a better web starts with your website.

01:09:03 ◼   ► - Should always use our promo code

01:09:04 ◼   ► 'cause it's three letters long.

01:09:06 ◼   ► It is the ultimate promo code, ATP.

01:09:07 ◼   ► Type it in every single box.

01:09:08 ◼   ► - That's true.

01:09:09 ◼   ► - On checkout.

01:09:10 ◼   ► Who knows, it might work.

01:09:12 ◼   ► So Marco, you recently posted a large headphone review.

01:09:16 ◼   ► Is there anything to add about that

01:09:18 ◼   ► or is that pretty much self-contained?

01:09:20 ◼   ► - That's pretty much self-contained.

01:09:21 ◼   ► I did face a little bit of a problem with this review,

01:09:26 ◼   ► which was--

01:09:27 ◼   ► - Oh, you're gonna talk about how you're being ridiculous

01:09:29 ◼   ► about in-ear monitors?

01:09:31 ◼   ► - No, actually.

01:09:32 ◼   ► The problem I had with this, which is really boring,

01:09:33 ◼   ► I'm not gonna spend too much time on it,

01:09:35 ◼   ► is where do you put it on the site?

01:09:37 ◼   ► Because what I've done in the past,

01:09:41 ◼   ► I've mostly just made blog posts here and there with,

01:09:45 ◼   ► here's what I think of this pair of headphones,

01:09:47 ◼   ► or here's my current recommendations.

01:09:50 ◼   ► This one I just, I decided that I'm gonna make it

01:09:53 ◼   ► its own page that I can update continuously,

01:09:55 ◼   ► 'cause blogs always have a problem

01:09:59 ◼   ► with accessing old content.

01:10:01 ◼   ► How do you make old content useful?

01:10:02 ◼   ► How do you deal with old content that's out of date?

01:10:05 ◼   ► Do you go back and edit and put little headers

01:10:07 ◼   ► on all of it saying, this is now out of date,

01:10:08 ◼   ► go here for an updated version?

01:10:09 ◼   ► There's all sorts of challenges there.

01:10:12 ◼   ► I decided rather than doing all that,

01:10:13 ◼   ► I'm just gonna have one continuously updated page.

01:10:15 ◼   ► And that was even more boring than I expected.

01:10:18 ◼   ► So that's pretty much it, that's all I got.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - It's funny you bring it up

01:10:21 ◼   ► because when I looked at Marco.org,

01:10:23 ◼   ► I noticed that your very long headphone post

01:10:26 ◼   ► was very, very short, but it was a link post.

01:10:31 ◼   ► And so I thought to myself, well, weird.

01:10:34 ◼   ► I guess he added some sort of read more functionality

01:10:37 ◼   ► to his, uh, to second crack, because to my knowledge that didn't exist at the time.

01:10:42 ◼   ► And then I clicked the link posts to your own post and realized, oh, you

01:10:47 ◼   ► just had this as a singular file or a singular URL, just sitting off the route.

01:10:52 ◼   ► And, and I did notice that, and it did take me by surprise that that's how you

01:10:56 ◼   ► handled it.

01:10:56 ◼   ► And then once I saw what you had done, it made perfect sense

01:10:58 ◼   ► why you had done it that way.

01:10:59 ◼   ► I don't think it made perfect sense.

01:11:01 ◼   ► I totally, I saw that too.

01:11:02 ◼   ► And I said, oh, that's not the way I would have done that.

01:11:04 ◼   ► What I would have done, like, I understand the reason you did it, but what I would

01:11:07 ◼   ► have done is made the new post like just as a regular long post and then gone

01:11:11 ◼   ► back into all my old headphone posts and put as the very first line this is old

01:11:16 ◼   ► you should go look at the new one here something nice to that you know because

01:11:21 ◼   ► I don't like the idea of updating an old article to say well these you know ten

01:11:27 ◼   ► years ago these were this was the headphone this this is what I thought

01:11:30 ◼   ► all the headphones that are available but and this has a lot of Google juice

01:11:33 ◼   ► because a lot of people have linked to it over the years so if you landed here

01:11:36 ◼   ► from Google, you know, I don't want you to see that.

01:11:39 ◼   ► I want you to see my new review.

01:11:41 ◼   ► I'd rather leave what I wrote as a sort of historical

01:11:44 ◼   ► document at that URL and then just have a constantly updated

01:11:47 ◼   ► redirect, like not a redirect, constantly updated

01:11:49 ◼   ► like header at the top says,

01:11:50 ◼   ► hey, you're about to start reading.

01:11:52 ◼   ► In case you didn't, because people totally don't notice

01:11:54 ◼   ► the date and this drives me insane.

01:11:55 ◼   ► I feel like the new trend should be on people's blogs

01:11:58 ◼   ► instead of all the other design trends that we've had

01:12:00 ◼   ► of making really big text and, you know, centering everything

01:12:03 ◼   ► and all that stuff.

01:12:04 ◼   ► Nutrient should be making the date just bigger and bigger until all you see in the entire screen is

01:12:08 ◼   ► 2004 so because people read things that I tried your instructions on how to you know set up

01:12:14 ◼   ► MySQL full-text searching and it didn't work and like

01:12:16 ◼   ► 2004 dude like look at people do not see dates

01:12:20 ◼   ► But anyway, they will read the first sentence of the review you hope and the first sentence should be this is old

01:12:25 ◼   ► The most recent one is here and yeah

01:12:27 ◼   ► It's a pain to have to keep going back through those and re-updating the links or whatever

01:12:30 ◼   ► but you can automate that if you really feel like it, but

01:12:33 ◼   ► That's the way I would have done it, but I understand why you did it the way you did. It's just it just seems weird

01:12:39 ◼   ► Sorry

01:12:42 ◼   ► You can do it better next time

01:12:44 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week

01:12:47 ◼   ► Fracture, Quotebook 3 from Lickability and Squarespace and we will see you next week

01:12:53 ◼   ► Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:13:02 ◼   ► John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:13:11 ◼   ► Cause it was accidental, it was accidental

01:13:17 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:13:21 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:13:26 ◼   ► C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that's Kasey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:13:33 ◼   ► Auntie Marco Arment S-I-R-A-C USA, Syracuse

01:13:41 ◼   ► It's accidental (it's accidental) They didn't mean too accidental (accidental)

01:13:48 ◼   ► Tech broadcast so long

01:13:55 ◼   ► So how's the review coming?

01:13:58 ◼   ► I made progress this weekend, but every time I make progress I try to reassess percentage-wise,

01:14:03 ◼   ► "Oh, what percent done do you think you are now?" and I keep coming up with the same number.

01:14:08 ◼   ► It's been like 70% for the past three weekends.

01:14:10 ◼   ► I'm like, "Oh, I feel like I'm about 70% done.

01:14:12 ◼   ► I wrote like 7,000 words this weekend.

01:14:14 ◼   ► Well, I feel like I'm 70% done."

01:14:16 ◼   ► And I just found out that I've been taking my screenshots in the wrong size, or some

01:14:20 ◼   ► of them in the wrong size.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Not that I've taken many of them anyway, but I have so much stuff to do.

01:14:24 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:14:26 ◼   ► Just rooting for a late October release date

01:14:28 ◼   ► and then everything should be fine.

01:14:30 ◼   ► - So what are you gonna do if they release early?

01:14:32 ◼   ► Would you like rage quit the review

01:14:34 ◼   ► even if you were half cooked on it or 70% cooked?

01:14:36 ◼   ► - No, I would rush to get it done even sooner than possible.

01:14:40 ◼   ► I would probably miss the release

01:14:42 ◼   ► and people would just have to wait and it would be terrible

01:14:44 ◼   ► and you know, what can you do?

01:14:46 ◼   ► Like, takes the time that it takes.

01:14:50 ◼   ► - All right.

01:14:51 ◼   ► I don't know about this TiVo thing

01:14:53 ◼   ► and everyone's saying, oh, it's for sports,

01:14:55 ◼   ► it's for, well, not everyone.

01:14:56 ◼   ► People saying it's for sports,

01:14:57 ◼   ► that doesn't make sense to me.

01:14:59 ◼   ► - I figure if you're that into sports,

01:15:00 ◼   ► you probably have cable, right?

01:15:02 ◼   ► - Right.

01:15:03 ◼   ► - They're trying to, like, it's cord cutters

01:15:05 ◼   ► who still want sports, I don't know.

01:15:07 ◼   ► Like I said, $50, that's the whole point of this thing is,

01:15:09 ◼   ► it's $50, if they'd made it free,

01:15:11 ◼   ► it would be even more, yeah, an interesting product,

01:15:14 ◼   ► but just, if you're on a TiVo, get a real TiVo.

01:15:18 ◼   ► - Do you wanna talk about this Twitch thing,

01:15:19 ◼   ► or is that gonna go on for two hours?

01:15:20 ◼   ► - It won't go on for long, we can talk about it,

01:15:22 ◼   ► 'cause I don't think I have much to say about it.

01:15:25 ◼   ► Do you guys both know what Twitch is?

01:15:27 ◼   ► - Have any of the three of us actually like seen Twitch?

01:15:30 ◼   ► - I have, yes.

01:15:31 ◼   ► - I watched like 10 seconds of it once

01:15:34 ◼   ► when, what was it?

01:15:36 ◼   ► Something about playing Pokemon,

01:15:37 ◼   ► like some chat room or something was playing Pokemon.

01:15:39 ◼   ► - So like old people, haven't you guys seen the YouTube?

01:15:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:15:42 ◼   ► Have you seen the YouTube?

01:15:43 ◼   ► I've seen the YouTube.

01:15:44 ◼   ► Like as if YouTube is one thing.

01:15:46 ◼   ► As if Twitch is like, oh yeah, I've seen Twitch.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Have you seen Twitch?

01:15:49 ◼   ► Yes, I've gone to the website.

01:15:50 ◼   ► - Have you seen Google?

01:15:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, at least the Google is kind of one thing.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Twitch is, you know.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - You're right to call me out.

01:15:56 ◼   ► So I've seen a video game being played live on Twitch.

01:15:59 ◼   ► I believe it was one of the Pokemon.

01:16:01 ◼   ► Is it Pokemon or Pokemons?

01:16:03 ◼   ► I guess Pokemon games.

01:16:04 ◼   ► - It's Pokemen.

01:16:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:16:07 ◼   ► - Anyway, point being,

01:16:10 ◼   ► it was something that went around like a couple months back

01:16:13 ◼   ► where it was like an entire chat room

01:16:16 ◼   ► was trying to collaborate and play one of the Pokemens.

01:16:20 ◼   ► - Don't actually say that Casey, please.

01:16:22 ◼   ► - I was kidding, I was kidding.

01:16:24 ◼   ► So it was the chat room or something.

01:16:26 ◼   ► Was it a chat room?

01:16:27 ◼   ► Shoot, I don't know what it was, but anyway.

01:16:29 ◼   ► - They had fish playing it, they have chat rooms playing it.

01:16:31 ◼   ► Many different things have played

01:16:33 ◼   ► these various Pokemon games.

01:16:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so I watched like 10 seconds of that

01:16:37 ◼   ► and was impossibly bored after those 10 seconds

01:16:41 ◼   ► and never looked back.

01:16:42 ◼   ► - So I think we had in our show, it was way back when,

01:16:45 ◼   ► and since I just recently caught up on Isometric,

01:16:46 ◼   ► I heard them talking about it.

01:16:47 ◼   ► There was some rumor a while ago

01:16:49 ◼   ► that Google was gonna buy Twitch.

01:16:50 ◼   ► remember that maybe we had it in our show notes briefly but we never talked

01:16:54 ◼   ► about it because Google never did buy twitch it was like oh it's a done deal

01:16:56 ◼   ► who was gonna buy twitch was months ago right and they didn't and then you know

01:17:02 ◼   ► people thought they might because it made sense and now I don't even know is

01:17:06 ◼   ► the Amazon actually a done deal I think I mean I don't know I always wait I want

01:17:11 ◼   ► to see a press release on the company's websites that's what I want to see

01:17:14 ◼   ► that's when it's confirmed but this is like you know sources say that whatever

01:17:17 ◼   ► Anyway, the story about this is Amazon buying Twitch.

01:17:21 ◼   ► I think the big story is, from my perspective,

01:17:25 ◼   ► why hasn't someone bought Twitch already?

01:17:27 ◼   ► Because Twitch does tremendous traffic

01:17:30 ◼   ► in an area that is underserved essentially.

01:17:33 ◼   ► For people that don't know, Twitch allows you,

01:17:36 ◼   ► it's a website where people put videos

01:17:38 ◼   ► of them playing video games,

01:17:39 ◼   ► and you can stream to it live,

01:17:41 ◼   ► and you can, a lot of the consoles

01:17:43 ◼   ► have a button you can press

01:17:44 ◼   ► that will stream what you're playing up to Twitch.

01:17:46 ◼   ► you can do pre-recorded stuff.

01:17:48 ◼   ► And it's like, why would you not want to buy this?

01:17:53 ◼   ► Because millions of people watch.

01:17:54 ◼   ► I think that like some esports championship thing

01:17:59 ◼   ► had like 41 million viewers or 70 million viewers

01:18:02 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Huge viewership on this.

01:18:06 ◼   ► The question is like, well,

01:18:08 ◼   ► why isn't this all just happening on YouTube?

01:18:09 ◼   ► Well, YouTube is a different kind of environment.

01:18:11 ◼   ► YouTube is for people making like their own little shows

01:18:14 ◼   ► channels and stuff, but YouTube is really harsh on cracking down on copyrighted material.

01:18:20 ◼   ► And Twitch is specifically tailored to gamers, it has integration with the consoles and everything

01:18:25 ◼   ► like that.

01:18:26 ◼   ► Now in recent weeks or months or however long it's been, Twitch has been starting to clamp

01:18:30 ◼   ► down on the copyrighted stuff as well.

01:18:32 ◼   ► If it does that content detection, if it detects copyrighted music, it will just mute the audio

01:18:37 ◼   ► track, and what's happening is people are getting their entire videos muted because

01:18:41 ◼   ► there's copyrighted music like in the game the game people paid for and like just all these problems of having machines try to enforce

01:18:47 ◼   ► Copyright, so I don't understand why that's going on. I have but like the biggest thing

01:18:51 ◼   ► I don't understand is why why didn't Google buy twitch? Why didn't you know?

01:18:55 ◼   ► Like they are a hot commodity

01:18:58 ◼   ► They are a place where lots of people are going to look at things that isn't well served by any existing properties

01:19:05 ◼   ► But is in that same vein like this is not like YouTube you say oh, it's kind of like TV

01:19:09 ◼   ► But instead of TV shows you watch YouTube and people who have kids of a certain age know that kids do watch YouTube just the way

01:19:14 ◼   ► They watch TV

01:19:15 ◼   ► Well twitch is like that for people who were into games only that never really was a TV analog because there was never any real

01:19:19 ◼   ► TV channel you could go to where you just watched you know hundreds of channels of people playing video games live or recorded and that's

01:19:25 ◼   ► What twitch is?

01:19:27 ◼   ► so

01:19:28 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure that Amazon buying them is good for anybody including Amazon

01:19:33 ◼   ► I think Google was a better fit because I feel like

01:19:35 ◼   ► What's happening in twitch should be happening on YouTube and if YouTube is not doing something to make that happen

01:19:40 ◼   ► And they need it to be in a separate branded site then fine

01:19:42 ◼   ► Google should have bought twitch and made it like as an offshoot of YouTube or tried to roll it into one or whatever

01:19:47 ◼   ► but I think what twitch does is only going to

01:19:51 ◼   ► Go away or fade if it gets screwed up by like stupid copyright stuff or whatever. I just think it's inevitable

01:19:57 ◼   ► It's obviously something that people want to do all over the world. It's gonna happen with or without twitch

01:20:03 ◼   ► If you people should be interested in those people those people buy games are worth advertising to their in a there in a you know

01:20:10 ◼   ► a demographic that people want to advertise to

01:20:12 ◼   ► Why did Amazon buy them Google reportedly bid for them and didn't get them and then Amazon did did Google?

01:20:20 ◼   ► Say too rich for my blood and just bail out of Amazon outbid them

01:20:24 ◼   ► These days I don't feel particularly good about Amazon buying things anymore

01:20:28 ◼   ► I used to feel good about Google buying things and then not so much you know now Amazon

01:20:33 ◼   ► I used to feel okay about them buying companies and now maybe not so much with like the comixology and stuff

01:20:38 ◼   ► So I don't know. I mean, I guess maybe this is better than Facebook buying them

01:20:42 ◼   ► I just think it's a shame for everybody who's into twitch

01:20:44 ◼   ► It's kind of a shame for twitch although presumably the people involved get a big payday

01:20:48 ◼   ► Twitch is not something that I watch regularly twitch is not something you guys watch it also

01:20:54 ◼   ► It's it's very younger demographic, but that's why I think like it's the future man doing what twitch does

01:21:01 ◼   ► Has a future and I just hope Amazon doesn't screw it up. I

01:21:05 ◼   ► Have nothing to add. This is one of those things that you should be old Casey

01:21:09 ◼   ► This is one of those things that is really popular that you and it's not like soccer where you understand that

01:21:14 ◼   ► It's really popular and always has been it's just not your thing

01:21:16 ◼   ► But this is like a worldwide really popular and you just have no interaction with it all I could be Facebook

01:21:21 ◼   ► Like we don't may not use Facebook, but we know Facebook exists. We know what it's like or whatever

01:21:25 ◼   ► So if you don't want to get out of touch with the kids, you should spend some time on Twitch

01:21:29 ◼   ► I've genuinely been dreading the thought of Minecraft still being a thing and

01:21:33 ◼   ► It's gonna be like

01:21:37 ◼   ► It's one of those games. It just gets ported everywhere. You know

01:21:39 ◼   ► Because it was like it had dated graphics the day it was made right so it's not as if it's gonna

01:21:44 ◼   ► Oh, we'll get old and people won't like it. Nope. It'll it will never die

01:21:47 ◼   ► They'll probably open source it at some point, and then you're really screwed so is a world of Warcraft or Minecraft dying first

01:21:54 ◼   ► World of Warcraft definitely that requires humans to maintain and run and presumably

01:21:59 ◼   ► eventually that will become

01:22:01 ◼   ► You know unfeasible like whatever Blizzard's next big project is will eventually I assume supply

01:22:06 ◼   ► Oh, they keep they keep revving it and releasing it. I guess they have enough people

01:22:09 ◼   ► Addicted to it, but that requires way more maintenance minecraft. You can just let it into the wild like a virus

01:22:15 ◼   ► You don't need any human intervention first

01:22:17 ◼   ► Blizzard needs to pay people you know millions of dollars a year just to keep a world of warcraft

01:22:22 ◼   ► Keep them in new content every year and keep the servers up and running and maintained

01:22:26 ◼   ► enough in wildly unrelated news I

01:22:30 ◼   ► Was somewhat stunned that it only took the internet a week to find Marco coffee. Yeah, I didn't even know

01:22:38 ◼   ► I thought Marco had registered that site ages ago. I didn't know

01:22:42 ◼   ► It says I don't try it. I'm trying to say nice things about your websites Marco, but I think I'm not Marco Casey

01:22:50 ◼   ► I think everyone has already yelled at you.

01:22:51 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, oh yeah.

01:22:52 ◼   ► - For the formatting of that site.

01:22:53 ◼   ► - Oh God, it's terrible, but I threw it together

01:22:55 ◼   ► in like 20 minutes, so I didn't care.

01:22:57 ◼   ► - It probably is not worth a whole lot of effort.

01:22:58 ◼   ► - Exactly, oh I knew it was horrible.

01:23:00 ◼   ► - It's worth just enough effort to make the one page

01:23:04 ◼   ► that is on that site look reasonable, that's all I'm saying.

01:23:06 ◼   ► - I really don't even care.

01:23:08 ◼   ► The point was to give a few people like 10 seconds

01:23:11 ◼   ► worth of laughs or giggles or what have you,

01:23:14 ◼   ► and I think I succeeded in that.

01:23:16 ◼   ► It's funny, people are complaining and moaning

01:23:18 ◼   ► about the fact that it's frames

01:23:20 ◼   ► because I was too lazy to figure out

01:23:21 ◼   ► how to get GitHub pages to accept--

01:23:22 ◼   ► - It's frames?

01:23:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is.

01:23:24 ◼   ► Well, it's framed because it's a hover redirect

01:23:28 ◼   ► and so I had it cloak the URL.

01:23:30 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, yeah. - So it's just a big

01:23:32 ◼   ► iframe, I guess.

01:23:33 ◼   ► And getting the layout the way I wanted

01:23:36 ◼   ► was a pain in the butt without using tables,

01:23:38 ◼   ► which I don't think I ended up doing.

01:23:40 ◼   ► So yeah, because I suck at CSS,

01:23:43 ◼   ► I'm freaking terrible at CSS.

01:23:45 ◼   ► - This is one of those differences.

01:23:46 ◼   ► You would have been the person

01:23:47 ◼   ► to make those city desk URLs,

01:23:49 ◼   ► 'cause you'd be like, "Eh, just good enough,

01:23:51 ◼   ► I don't care that much, this is a URL."

01:23:53 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:23:53 ◼   ► It's just like there's something,

01:23:55 ◼   ► and I'm not saying there's something wrong with you,

01:23:57 ◼   ► you are in the majority, believe me,

01:23:59 ◼   ► but like there, I know if I was putting up

01:24:01 ◼   ► a single page site that just had text in it,

01:24:03 ◼   ► I would be there making sure that text

01:24:04 ◼   ► was like exactly where I wanted it to be

01:24:06 ◼   ► and the font that I wanted it to be.

01:24:07 ◼   ► - Well, that's because you're extraordinarily critical.

01:24:10 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, the joke still works

01:24:11 ◼   ► if it's Marco.coffee/pages/troll.aspx, right?

01:24:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:24:18 ◼   ► And the funny thing is, I think it was TJ Luoma,

01:24:20 ◼   ► I'm probably getting that pronunciation wrong

01:24:22 ◼   ► and I'm sorry about that,

01:24:22 ◼   ► but I believe he was the first person to point out to me,

01:24:25 ◼   ► in retrospect, I should have just had a redirect to Starbucks

01:24:29 ◼   ► and I really had a missed opportunity there.

01:24:31 ◼   ► - Well, that's what I did with bad.coffee.

01:24:34 ◼   ► So I own bad.coffee, redirects to Starbucks's Wikipedia page

01:24:38 ◼   ► and then I also have overcast.coffee and podcast.coffee.

01:24:42 ◼   ► - How did you not register Marco.coffee?

01:24:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, that for some reason didn't cross my mind

01:24:47 ◼   ► when I was entering all these in.

01:24:48 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:24:50 ◼   ► - Oh man, that's funny.

01:24:52 ◼   ► Anyway, I noticed this the other day.

01:24:55 ◼   ► This was a week to the day.

01:24:56 ◼   ► It was last Wednesday,

01:24:59 ◼   ► and I noticed that Marco.coffee was available,

01:25:01 ◼   ► and I thought, what could I do with this?

01:25:05 ◼   ► And actually, my first thought was,

01:25:07 ◼   ► hey, did you know that Marco.coffee,

01:25:09 ◼   ► to say to you, hey, Marco.coffee is available?

01:25:11 ◼   ► And then I was like, wait a second,

01:25:13 ◼   ► there's an opportunity here.

01:25:14 ◼   ► And so yeah, so I figured trolling you for a year

01:25:18 ◼   ► is worth $25 of my money.

01:25:20 ◼   ► So I will go ahead and register this

01:25:22 ◼   ► and throw up the world's crappiest single serving site.

01:25:26 ◼   ► - And you did.

01:25:27 ◼   ► - And I did.

01:25:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:25:29 ◼   ► So.

01:25:29 ◼   ► - That's good.

01:25:30 ◼   ► It's funny, I'm proud of you for even doing this joke.

01:25:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, originally it was coffee is stupid

01:25:37 ◼   ► and then I felt like that didn't have the same ring to it

01:25:39 ◼   ► as coffee is silly, so.

01:25:41 ◼   ► - You're so polite even in your trolling.

01:25:42 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:25:43 ◼   ► Something like that.

01:25:45 ◼   ► I had a domain registered for the Flop House

01:25:47 ◼   ► for a couple of years, but I just

01:25:49 ◼   ► let it expire in protest because no one would accurately

01:25:52 ◼   ► represent the joke I was making on that website.

01:25:55 ◼   ► Of course.

01:25:56 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:25:57 ◼   ► Of course.

01:25:59 ◼   ► It was frustrating.

01:26:00 ◼   ► But anyway, you're talking about paying $25 for a year.

01:26:03 ◼   ► I think I paid for three years, maybe it was even four years,

01:26:06 ◼   ► of that domain.

01:26:07 ◼   ► And it was nothing but a redirect.

01:26:09 ◼   ► It was the whole point of the domain is like, oh,

01:26:11 ◼   ► type this you'll get those redirects aren't as much fun back in the days when if you were

01:26:16 ◼   ► in the circle of Mac users all the popular Mac browsers would first append I forget which

01:26:21 ◼   ► order the first appended.com and then www.com or the reverse but if you typed any word that's

01:26:27 ◼   ► what they did before the the age of the various awesome bars and integrated you know search

01:26:31 ◼   ► address bar if you just typed a word by itself into your address bar it would try the dot

01:26:35 ◼   ► and/or the triple w.com.

01:26:38 ◼   ► And that was a cool way to navigate,

01:26:40 ◼   ► but that time has passed, so.

01:26:43 ◼   ► Half the time people just type stuff

01:26:45 ◼   ► and they end up with a Google search anyway,

01:26:46 ◼   ► so you are getting a domain.

01:26:49 ◼   ► It's not as much fun as it used to be.

01:26:51 ◼   ► - Do you wanna do titles real fast

01:26:54 ◼   ► before Snell steals you from us?

01:26:55 ◼   ► - Three people are never wrong.

01:26:58 ◼   ► - Oh, that was about the chat room.

01:27:00 ◼   ► You failed me last time, chat room.

01:27:02 ◼   ► When in Star Wars was that?

01:27:04 ◼   ► I want to really, really get everyone to hate me.

01:27:06 ◼   ► - There's no mention of the chat room in Star Wars.

01:27:08 ◼   ► Don't look for it.

01:27:09 ◼   ► - What?

01:27:10 ◼   ► - I said, there's no mention of the chat room in Star Wars.

01:27:14 ◼   ► Don't look for-- - Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

01:27:15 ◼   ► - A mention of the chat room in Star Wars.

01:27:17 ◼   ► - I know, you failed me for the last time.

01:27:19 ◼   ► - Admiral.

01:27:20 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, that does ring a vague bell.

01:27:23 ◼   ► I haven't seen Star Wars movies in years.

01:27:26 ◼   ► - It's not the same line.

01:27:27 ◼   ► That was a line in a similar scene.

01:27:28 ◼   ► Don't you remember in "Empire Strikes Back"?

01:27:30 ◼   ► - I couldn't even tell you the plot of "Empire Strikes Back".

01:27:32 ◼   ► Darth Vader is mad at people.

01:27:34 ◼   ► Darth Vader is mad at people because they're

01:27:36 ◼   ► doing things wrong, and he kills them.

01:27:38 ◼   ► And why does he kill them?

01:27:39 ◼   ► Because he failed him for the last time.

01:27:41 ◼   ► Because he'll be dead now, you see,

01:27:43 ◼   ► so he can't fail him anymore.

01:27:44 ◼   ► It's very complicated.