ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► We apparently just missed an Amazon announcement.

00:00:02 ◼   ► Let's see.

00:00:03 ◼   ► What?

00:00:04 ◼   ► Amazon just released another tablet.

00:00:05 ◼   ► I thought it was another Kindle.

00:00:06 ◼   ► No, I gotta look it up.

00:00:08 ◼   ► Yeah, whatever.

00:00:09 ◼   ► Do we actually give a sh—

00:00:10 ◼   ► No, it doesn't—I mean, how—you know, if you look at the impact that the Kindle Fire

00:00:16 ◼   ► in general, the tablet line—I mean, not the stupid phone—if you look at the impact

00:00:20 ◼   ► that the Kindle Fire tablets have had on the tablet market as a whole, I think almost everybody

00:00:25 ◼   ► would be able to look at it and say, "That's not nearly as big of a deal as we thought

00:00:29 ◼   ► when it was released. I think we all said, "Oh, this tablet's so cheap, they're going

00:00:36 ◼   ► to get a huge market share, it's going to be a big deal." And from what we can tell,

00:00:40 ◼   ► it seems like it sells okay, but it's not really setting the world on fire or anything.

00:00:46 ◼   ► It isn't the only cheap Android tablet anymore, and it was never the best cheap Android tablet.

00:00:52 ◼   ► And so it ended up not really mattering that much. There's tons of cheap Android tablets

00:00:57 ◼   ► out there, many of them cheaper than this, Amazon software has always been mediocre at

00:01:02 ◼   ► best.

00:01:03 ◼   ► So yeah, it just never seems to matter as much as we think it will.

00:01:07 ◼   ► You know, these devices must be awesome because the subheadline or whatever you call this

00:01:13 ◼   ► is inexpensive may not have to be garbage.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Could be garbage but may not.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Like that's not, "Oh, these are the best Amazon Kindle Fire tablets ever."

00:01:25 ◼   ► It's inexpensive, may not have to be garbage.

00:01:29 ◼   ► So let's start with talking about quad 27 inch retina displays.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Again, this is awesome.

00:01:37 ◼   ► I love this.

00:01:38 ◼   ► I'm so excited.

00:01:39 ◼   ► There should be a link there, I guess, back to the same thing.

00:01:41 ◼   ► But no, it's because last week when Marco talked about it, he mentioned that the only

00:01:46 ◼   ► Mac that's for sale that this could conceivably work with is the Mac Pro because it's the

00:01:51 ◼   ► only one with two Thunderbolt buses and everybody heard two Thunderbolt buses as

00:01:57 ◼   ► two Thunderbolt ports and then we got all the email from everyone telling us

00:02:00 ◼   ► all the other Macs that have two Thunderbolt ports on them. Ports are not

00:02:03 ◼   ► the same thing as buses. There's a limited amount of bandwidth per bus and

00:02:08 ◼   ► even though you may have two ports if they all lead to the same bus it's not

00:02:11 ◼   ► like you get twice the bandwidth. Two buses like the Mac Pro has, it's only two

00:02:16 ◼   ► Is it three maybe it's three it is thank you anyway

00:02:19 ◼   ► The Mac Pro has a whole bunch of Thunderbolt buses and there's a diagram showing you all it was like six ports on the back

00:02:25 ◼   ► or something

00:02:27 ◼   ► Yeah, and then and it also connects the HDMI port and and it's the reason why it can have three is

00:02:32 ◼   ► Not because like they spend an extra 30 bucks on the ports on the motherboard. It's because if Thunderbolt

00:02:38 ◼   ► Basically connects directly to the CPU and so the CPU has to support

00:02:42 ◼   ► this and it has to have a certain number of PCI Express lanes run into it all these like these bandwidth limited things that run to

00:02:49 ◼   ► the CPUs and

00:02:50 ◼   ► the reason why the Mac Pro uses Xeon CPUs well one of the many reasons that uses the ons is

00:02:55 ◼   ► Because Xeon the Xeon e5 series which it uses has tons more

00:03:00 ◼   ► PCI Express lanes that run directly to the CPU and so they can do things like

00:03:04 ◼   ► Have two GPUs that can talk to each other at extremely high bandwidth and also have enough PCI Express lanes

00:03:11 ◼   ► so they can run three individual Thunderbolt buses, for the most part purely to the CPU.

00:03:17 ◼   ► There's a little bit of a trick there with the switch, but yeah, look at Anatex review.

00:03:20 ◼   ► Anyway, Intel's consumer CPU line, which is what every other Mac uses, never has enough

00:03:26 ◼   ► ports for this. I mean, maybe in the future they might add this, but it's very unlikely.

00:03:29 ◼   ► Not ports, buses.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Buses, right, right. So it isn't only that the Mac Pro is the only one that can do this,

00:03:37 ◼   ► but it's not like next year there's going to be a MacBook Pro that can do this.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Like it's probably going to be not until Thunderbolt 3,

00:03:45 ◼   ► and Thunderbolt 3 is arriving with the Skylake something like?

00:03:49 ◼   ► Skylake? Yeah, the codename after, whatever comes after Broadwell, I believe it's called

00:03:53 ◼   ► Skylake or it's S something like. When that arrives, then you'll, then

00:03:57 ◼   ► the consumer CPUs will be able to have enough bandwidth to run these kind of

00:04:01 ◼   ► displays over one cable into one bus. But

00:04:05 ◼   ► is still probably at least a year and a half off where that can even start to become a thing.

00:04:09 ◼   ► So like I was saying, we should put in the show notes the diagram on the back of a Mac Pro,

00:04:13 ◼   ► which tells you which of those six ports is connected to bus number one, which is connected

00:04:17 ◼   ► to bus number two, and so it's not as straightforward as like the ones on the left or on one bus and the

00:04:21 ◼   ► one on the right or another. It's this weird pattern. But anyway, that's that's why the

00:04:24 ◼   ► Mac Pro would be the only option for this. Now DisplayPort 1.3 was announced, and I think you

00:04:29 ◼   ► posted about that as well, Marco, how does that factor into this?

00:04:33 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 3 has enough bandwidth to run one of these. So Thunderbolt 2, basically what you need is

00:04:39 ◼   ► depending on whether you can trick it into running at 24-bit or whether you keep sending 32-bit like

00:04:44 ◼   ► most display interfaces do because it's easier, you need either 21 gigabits per second or 28

00:04:50 ◼   ► gigabits per second. The current Thunderbolt 2 limit is 20, so neither of those will fit no

00:04:55 ◼   ► matter how you do it. As long as it's 60 hertz you still can't do it. And anything lower than 60 hertz

00:05:00 ◼   ► It sucks, so that's no good.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 3, I think raises it up to 30 or something.

00:05:07 ◼   ► It raises it higher than the 28,

00:05:10 ◼   ► so it can then handle this.

00:05:12 ◼   ► What I expect to happen here,

00:05:14 ◼   ► I expect that we have a very good chance

00:05:17 ◼   ► of seeing a retina iMac this year,

00:05:18 ◼   ► because an iMac, when you have a built-in display,

00:05:22 ◼   ► whether it's a laptop or an iMac-style computer,

00:05:25 ◼   ► those displays don't connect

00:05:27 ◼   ► over internal Thunderbolt cables.

00:05:28 ◼   ► They connect over a different bus.

00:05:30 ◼   ► I know it used to be like the LVDS thing.

00:05:32 ◼   ► Do you know, Jon, is that kind of stuff still used?

00:05:35 ◼   ► - I have no idea how the display in an iMac is connected,

00:05:39 ◼   ► but other than the fact that it's not a Thunderbolt cable

00:05:41 ◼   ► that's connecting it from one place to another.

00:05:43 ◼   ► - So in a laptop or in an iMac,

00:05:46 ◼   ► you can avoid these issues with the way their displays

00:05:49 ◼   ► are interfaced to their video cards.

00:05:51 ◼   ► It's more of like a direct connection.

00:05:52 ◼   ► And I guess, Casey, you don't know either, do you?

00:05:55 ◼   ► - No, not off the top of my head.

00:05:56 ◼   ► - Okay, so none of us know exactly how this works,

00:05:58 ◼   ► but I know that it's roughly that these things

00:06:00 ◼   ► use their own kind of like internal signaling mechanisms

00:06:04 ◼   ► that don't have the same limitations

00:06:05 ◼   ► as these external cable standards.

00:06:07 ◼   ► So I think because, like so if Apple released this,

00:06:11 ◼   ► you know they're calling it 5K,

00:06:13 ◼   ► well Dell's calling it this,

00:06:14 ◼   ► if Apple released a 5K resolution or quad 27

00:06:18 ◼   ► or quad retina, whatever you're calling it,

00:06:20 ◼   ► if Apple releases one of these monitors,

00:06:23 ◼   ► only the Mac Pro could run it.

00:06:24 ◼   ► And that's not a particularly graceful product launch.

00:06:28 ◼   ► I don't think they would do that.

00:06:29 ◼   ► I think they would probably wait

00:06:31 ◼   ► until every new Mac could do it.

00:06:33 ◼   ► And that's probably gonna be two more years.

00:06:35 ◼   ► But the Retina iMac could happen this year, theoretically,

00:06:40 ◼   ► or late this year or early next year.

00:06:43 ◼   ► I don't know if it will, but it could.

00:06:45 ◼   ► And so I suspect we're gonna see Retina 5K panels in iMacs

00:06:50 ◼   ► before we're gonna see them from Apple as external monitors.

00:06:55 ◼   ► - I mean, I think that sounds fair.

00:06:57 ◼   ► - All right, moving on for more follow up.

00:07:00 ◼   ► Optical image stabilization.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Tell me about how you were wrong, Marco.

00:07:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, sure.

00:07:05 ◼   ► So I was under the impression from forever ago,

00:07:08 ◼   ► I don't know where I read this,

00:07:10 ◼   ► that the way optical image stabilized SLR lenses worked

00:07:14 ◼   ► was that there was actually a spinning glass element in them

00:07:17 ◼   ► and that it spun quickly enough

00:07:20 ◼   ► that it would have its own kind of gyroscopic stabilization

00:07:22 ◼   ► so that when you move the lens,

00:07:24 ◼   ► the lens would, or the spinning element would shift

00:07:27 ◼   ► to kind of undo that.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Turns out that's completely wrong,

00:07:31 ◼   ► and the way SLR image stabilization works

00:07:35 ◼   ► is very similar or identical to the way that it works

00:07:39 ◼   ► in the new iPhone 6, which is, or the 6 Plus,

00:07:42 ◼   ► which is that an accelerometer detects motion,

00:07:45 ◼   ► and then using electromagnets shifts around the,

00:07:48 ◼   ► or actuators or something, electrically shifts

00:07:51 ◼   ► around the lens, you know, X times per second

00:07:53 ◼   ► to compensate for it.

00:07:55 ◼   ► There is a floating element in that it's not tied down,

00:07:57 ◼   ► but it does not spin.

00:07:58 ◼   ► So yeah, I was totally wrong about that.

00:08:01 ◼   ► - So if you'll allow me to piggyback on that briefly,

00:08:04 ◼   ► today was the day, or last night, whenever,

00:08:07 ◼   ► recently was the time that the six and six plus reviews

00:08:11 ◼   ► all came out, so the embargo was lifted.

00:08:13 ◼   ► And one thing that I saw fairly consistently

00:08:16 ◼   ► between all the six and six plus reviews

00:08:18 ◼   ► was people saying that the six plus battery life

00:08:21 ◼   ► really is demonstrably better and longer

00:08:23 ◼   ► than previous phones and even the six itself.

00:08:28 ◼   ► And I don't know about you guys,

00:08:29 ◼   ► but when they flashed the chart on the screen of,

00:08:32 ◼   ► you know, standby time's a little bit longer

00:08:33 ◼   ► and this and that is a little bit longer,

00:08:35 ◼   ► none of that looked that dramatic to me

00:08:37 ◼   ► except like playing music.

00:08:39 ◼   ► But nevertheless, a lot of people are saying,

00:08:42 ◼   ► and Matt Panzorino at TechCrunch is a great example of this,

00:08:44 ◼   ► are saying that the six plus actually

00:08:47 ◼   ► has somewhat considerably better battery life.

00:08:49 ◼   ► And that actually surprised me quite a bit.

00:08:52 ◼   ► - I think it's just perception

00:08:53 ◼   ► versus seeing numbers on a table.

00:08:54 ◼   ► You're doing the math in your head,

00:08:55 ◼   ► you're subtracting 14, 11, that's a difference of three.

00:08:58 ◼   ► That's three hours.

00:08:59 ◼   ► And the experience of three extra hours of time

00:09:03 ◼   ► is much greater than you seeing

00:09:04 ◼   ► those two numbers up on the screen.

00:09:05 ◼   ► So I think Apple's numbers are probably in the ballpark.

00:09:07 ◼   ► All this stuff is fuzzy anyway.

00:09:09 ◼   ► I just think any difference in battery life gets magnified

00:09:13 ◼   ► when the plus is just consistently still alive

00:09:16 ◼   ► while the iPhone 6 is dead.

00:09:18 ◼   ► And if it's still alive for like one hour, two hours,

00:09:20 ◼   ► like that feels like forever.

00:09:21 ◼   ► It feels like, oh wow, this iPhone 6 Plus is amazing

00:09:25 ◼   ► when it's just, I think, probably a reasonable reflection

00:09:28 ◼   ► of the numbers Apple put up.

00:09:30 ◼   ► - I mean, from like a raw capacity perspective,

00:09:32 ◼   ► I believe the parts leaks indicated

00:09:34 ◼   ► that the 6 Plus's battery was something like 50% larger

00:09:38 ◼   ► than the 6's battery.

00:09:40 ◼   ► So there is a lot more capacity there.

00:09:41 ◼   ► Of course, the question is, you know,

00:09:43 ◼   ► how much more does it use for that big screen and everything?

00:09:46 ◼   ► and the display scaler.

00:09:47 ◼   ► - And the upclock CPU too.

00:09:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I posted a link earlier on Twitter

00:09:52 ◼   ► to a BareFeets benchmark where I don't think,

00:09:55 ◼   ► has anyone else confirmed this yet?

00:09:56 ◼   ► It sure looks like from this BareFeets benchmark

00:09:58 ◼   ► that the 6+ does have a slightly higher clock speed,

00:10:03 ◼   ► probably in the range of five to 10% on its CPU.

00:10:06 ◼   ► So it does have like five to 10% better CPU performance

00:10:09 ◼   ► than the 6, which is similar to the Retina iPad Mini

00:10:16 ◼   ► and the iPad Air both have the A7 CPU

00:10:20 ◼   ► and they're both technically identical in most ways,

00:10:24 ◼   ► except that on the iPad Air it is clocked slightly higher,

00:10:27 ◼   ► similar, like 5% or 10% higher.

00:10:30 ◼   ► So the iPad Air is slightly faster than the Retina Mini

00:10:32 ◼   ► with the quote same CPU.

00:10:34 ◼   ► So it looks like we have basically that exact same

00:10:36 ◼   ► difference between the 6 and the 6 Plus.

00:10:38 ◼   ► The 6 Plus is slightly faster.

00:10:40 ◼   ► In reality, the 6 Plus has all these

00:10:44 ◼   ► fairly minor improvements over the 6 beyond the screen.

00:10:47 ◼   ► So it has more battery life, maybe in practice,

00:10:52 ◼   ► maybe it's 20, 25% more,

00:10:54 ◼   ► once you account for the screen and everything.

00:10:56 ◼   ► It has a higher DPI screen, so it's a sharper screen.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Even like according to John Gruber,

00:11:02 ◼   ► even with the scaling it's doing,

00:11:06 ◼   ► it still ends up being sharper looking

00:11:08 ◼   ► than the other screens.

00:11:09 ◼   ► Now we know it has a slightly faster CPU

00:11:13 ◼   ► and then it has the optical image stabilization,

00:11:16 ◼   ► which people are saying does make a small difference,

00:11:19 ◼   ► but it is a difference and it is better.

00:11:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, speaking of, I don't have it handy,

00:11:24 ◼   ► so I'm gonna butcher the description,

00:11:26 ◼   ► but in Panzareno's review, he was saying,

00:11:28 ◼   ► I think that you get a couple of f-stops more

00:11:31 ◼   ► with the optical image stabilization, is that right?

00:11:33 ◼   ► I don't know anything about photography.

00:11:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, the way this works,

00:11:36 ◼   ► and this is what actually impressed me way more.

00:11:39 ◼   ► So, Panzareno, and I saw this mostly

00:11:42 ◼   ► in the ones he was tweeting last night,

00:11:43 ◼   ► when he was tweeting the stats and everything,

00:11:46 ◼   ► and tweeting what the ISO was,

00:11:48 ◼   ► what the shutter speed was for these shots.

00:11:50 ◼   ► What's interesting is, so image stabilization,

00:11:53 ◼   ► keep in mind that it cannot stabilize your subject.

00:11:56 ◼   ► So if you are moving, if you're in a moving vehicle,

00:12:00 ◼   ► or if you're otherwise moving substantially,

00:12:03 ◼   ► or your subject is moving, if it's a person, for instance,

00:12:07 ◼   ► or a pet, image stabilization does not help you there at all

00:12:12 ◼   ► you still need a fast shutter speed to freeze the motion.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Where image stabilization does help quite a lot

00:12:18 ◼   ► is if you're taking a picture at night

00:12:20 ◼   ► of a building or something or a landscape,

00:12:22 ◼   ► that helps tremendously there.

00:12:24 ◼   ► And so what it allows you to do basically

00:12:27 ◼   ► is compensate for the very small hand movement.

00:12:29 ◼   ► So if you try to take a long exposure shot

00:12:32 ◼   ► without a tripod, just handheld,

00:12:35 ◼   ► it's pretty hard to get that to be remotely sharp

00:12:37 ◼   ► just because of tiny movements you make

00:12:39 ◼   ► without even realizing it with your hands and your body

00:12:42 ◼   ► while you're holding the shutter down.

00:12:43 ◼   ► Image stabilization lets you generally,

00:12:46 ◼   ► like on an SLR, a good stabilizer,

00:12:48 ◼   ► I've been able to handhold a shot

00:12:50 ◼   ► up to roughly a second exposure,

00:12:51 ◼   ► which is very, very long for a camera

00:12:54 ◼   ► to have a one second exposure.

00:12:55 ◼   ► I can handhold that with a good stabilizer

00:12:58 ◼   ► and the picture turns out sharp.

00:13:00 ◼   ► It's gonna be a little bit different

00:13:02 ◼   ► with one that's this small for various reasons,

00:13:04 ◼   ► but the result is that the shutter can stay open longer

00:13:08 ◼   ► and it can still be sharp

00:13:10 ◼   ► compared to an unstabilized image.

00:13:12 ◼   ► What this means is that the phone

00:13:15 ◼   ► is able to drop the sensitivity down.

00:13:18 ◼   ► So the sensitivity also, it's called ISO in the EXIF data.

00:13:21 ◼   ► You know, so the numbers are like 400, 800, 1600.

00:13:25 ◼   ► So the higher sensitivity generally,

00:13:28 ◼   ► and I'm sorry for anybody who knows this already,

00:13:30 ◼   ► the higher sensitivity,

00:13:31 ◼   ► you're basically amplifying the signal.

00:13:33 ◼   ► And so you get, you don't need as much light to be captured,

00:13:37 ◼   ► but you're also amplifying the noise that's present

00:13:39 ◼   ► at like the baseline.

00:13:40 ◼   ► And so that's what makes pictures grainy and noisy,

00:13:43 ◼   ► especially if you ever see like the color grain,

00:13:46 ◼   ► that's called chroma noise,

00:13:47 ◼   ► it's one of the more obvious ones.

00:13:50 ◼   ► And post-processing can attempt to remove some of this

00:13:52 ◼   ► and oftentimes it does, but then it looks kind of muddy

00:13:54 ◼   ► or low contrast or like a watercolor painting.

00:13:56 ◼   ► Anyway, image stabilization lets the camera

00:13:59 ◼   ► capture more light before your hand motion matters,

00:14:03 ◼   ► if the subject is being still.

00:14:06 ◼   ► And therefore it can drop the sensitivity down

00:14:08 ◼   ► so that way you get less noise, better colors,

00:14:11 ◼   ► better contrast.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Where that helps is in nighttime shots.

00:14:14 ◼   ► So, Panzorino was posting these shots

00:14:16 ◼   ► and the one on the iPhone 6 of this dark building at night,

00:14:20 ◼   ► the one on the iPhone 6 without stabilization

00:14:23 ◼   ► was ISO 1200 or something like that.

00:14:27 ◼   ► And then the one on the iPad 6 Plus with stabilization

00:14:30 ◼   ► was at ISO 400.

00:14:31 ◼   ► Way lower sensitivity, massive difference in noise,

00:14:34 ◼   ► basically.

00:14:35 ◼   ► And so, that's where stabilization is going to seemingly

00:14:38 ◼   ► help a lot in the iPhone is, you know,

00:14:40 ◼   ► and generally, you know, it picks the ISO for you,

00:14:42 ◼   ► but it looks like it's making intelligent decisions

00:14:45 ◼   ► on how, what's the minimum sensitivity we can use here

00:14:50 ◼   ► to capture the image given the scene.

00:14:52 ◼   ► And so the Image Stabilizer gives you a lot more headroom

00:14:54 ◼   ► with avoiding noise in darkness.

00:14:57 ◼   ► - So the f-stop is telling me how long

00:14:59 ◼   ► the shutter remained open, is that correct?

00:15:02 ◼   ► - In this context, basically, yes.

00:15:03 ◼   ► But it's not a complete definition, but yeah.

00:15:06 ◼   ► That's basically saying in this context,

00:15:09 ◼   ► like you can get a lot more light in

00:15:11 ◼   ► and therefore the sensitivity can be lower.

00:15:14 ◼   ► - Cool, all right, thank you.

00:15:15 ◼   ► I was just curious because like I said,

00:15:17 ◼   ► I know almost nothing about photography,

00:15:19 ◼   ► so I recognize those terms as photography related,

00:15:22 ◼   ► but I wasn't sure what specifically that was leading onto.

00:15:26 ◼   ► Since we've opened this Pandora's box,

00:15:27 ◼   ► anything else about the hardware?

00:15:29 ◼   ► None of us have any of the hardware yet,

00:15:30 ◼   ► but anything else from the reviews or anything?

00:15:32 ◼   ► - Well, the chat room says that Jason Snell confirmed

00:15:35 ◼   ► that the 6 Plus is at 1.4 gigahertz versus 1.2 for the 6.

00:15:39 ◼   ► So there's some exact numbers on the CPU speed.

00:15:41 ◼   ► And by the way, Gruber mentioned that the 6 Plus--

00:15:44 ◼   ► it's kind of an iPad 3 situation where the 6 Plus may

00:15:46 ◼   ► be clocked higher, but it may actually

00:15:48 ◼   ► need to be clocked higher.

00:15:49 ◼   ► Not so much the CPU, but the GPU,

00:15:51 ◼   ► because he was saying that he saw a couple of stutters

00:15:53 ◼   ► on the 6 Plus just because it's slinging so many pixels around,

00:15:56 ◼   ► like a 3x image on this giant screen, that

00:15:58 ◼   ► may be having a little bit extra clock speed, assuming this clock

00:16:02 ◼   ► speed applies to the GPU as well.

00:16:04 ◼   ► that if it's higher than six plus,

00:16:07 ◼   ► maybe it needs it and maybe it's not,

00:16:10 ◼   ► it's maybe a little bit overdrawn on its CPU

00:16:13 ◼   ► and GPU power bank account.

00:16:15 ◼   ► This first generation big giant screen iPod,

00:16:19 ◼   ► again, like the first retina iPad was a little bit,

00:16:22 ◼   ► you know, a little bit too much.

00:16:24 ◼   ► - All right, so speaking of people that were wrong,

00:16:26 ◼   ► although I'm sure John, you're about to tell me

00:16:27 ◼   ► that I'm wrong in saying you're wrong,

00:16:29 ◼   ► let's talk about Google Wallet.

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00:18:42 ◼   ► Okay, John. So tell us about Google Wallet

00:18:45 ◼   ► That's not the first

00:18:47 ◼   ► Android thing that I got wrong. The first one was when we were discussing

00:18:50 ◼   ► Smart watches and I was talking about the idea of taking a phone and shrinking it down and having like a little phone on your wrist

00:18:57 ◼   ► I used the wrong brand name for the Android wearable

00:19:01 ◼   ► It's been so many of them that multiple names are floating around in my mind. I kept saying and Android wear

00:19:06 ◼   ► That's not what I was thinking of was actually Galaxy gear

00:19:08 ◼   ► Which was the one that predates Android wear Android wear is actually much more like

00:19:12 ◼   ► Apple's interface

00:19:14 ◼   ► Maybe a little bit more limited because we don't really know what kind of stuff can actually run on the watch

00:19:18 ◼   ► But the interface is don't look like you're not you're not like

00:19:20 ◼   ► Flicking through the equivalent of table views and looking for stuff like you were on the galaxy gear

00:19:24 ◼   ► So I was thinking of Galaxy Gear, not Android, where my apologies for the mistake.

00:19:29 ◼   ► OK. Now Google Wallet.

00:19:32 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. So last week we talked about the NFC thing with Apple Pay,

00:19:37 ◼   ► and I noted that Apple gets the card present rate, even though a card is not actually present,

00:19:43 ◼   ► they get the card present rate because of the inherent security in their NFC thing.

00:19:48 ◼   ► And I thought the touch ID might have been part of that. But Dion Garrett sent me a link to a

00:19:52 ◼   ► Quora article explaining that Google Wallet

00:19:54 ◼   ► also gets the card at present rate,

00:19:56 ◼   ► and of course that's not reliant on Touch ID,

00:19:58 ◼   ► so apparently NFC alone is secure enough

00:20:01 ◼   ► that people can get these deals

00:20:04 ◼   ► where you get the card at present rate.

00:20:06 ◼   ► It doesn't have anything to do with Touch ID.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Although there was one more article

00:20:10 ◼   ► that unfortunately I didn't get a chance to read,

00:20:12 ◼   ► maybe we'll throw it in the show

00:20:13 ◼   ► and see if people can read as well,

00:20:14 ◼   ► but Tim Breadshoe pointed out that,

00:20:16 ◼   ► I linked to an article in the Financial Times

00:20:18 ◼   ► trying to explain how much money Apple is getting

00:20:22 ◼   ► from each transaction and who was giving them that money.

00:20:24 ◼   ► And he made it seem like that Apple is actually skimming

00:20:28 ◼   ► more off of each transaction than previous people

00:20:32 ◼   ► who attempted to insert themselves into the payment chain.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And that I assume most of this payment is coming

00:20:39 ◼   ► from the credit card companies and the banks

00:20:40 ◼   ► and not the consumers.

00:20:42 ◼   ► But again, I haven't read that article,

00:20:44 ◼   ► we'll put it in the show notes.

00:20:44 ◼   ► And by the way, Tim Bradshaw got Tim on Twitter @Tim,

00:20:48 ◼   ► which he must've been pretty early, huh?

00:20:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:20:52 ◼   ► I should note with regard to Apple Pay that I got an email from Bank of America today

00:20:56 ◼   ► saying, "Oh, we're going to support Apple Pay.

00:20:59 ◼   ► Don't worry.

00:21:00 ◼   ► It's coming, it's coming, it's coming," which I can't remember Bank of America being that

00:21:04 ◼   ► forward thinking about just about anything.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Now, I'm one of the six humans that doesn't think Bank of America is pure, unadulterated

00:21:10 ◼   ► evil.

00:21:11 ◼   ► I've always had okay luck with them, but I'm very surprised that they're trying to be on

00:21:17 ◼   ► the ball with this Apple Pay thing.

00:21:18 ◼   ► And I know that it was mentioned that they were one of the partners during the keynote,

00:21:22 ◼   ► but actually receiving an unsolicited communication from them saying, "Apple Pay is coming, Apple

00:21:26 ◼   ► Pay is coming," that kind of took me back.

00:21:28 ◼   ► Not a bad thing, just surprised.

00:21:30 ◼   ► So let's talk about some feedback from Pomo.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I'll see if I can summarize this.

00:21:36 ◼   ► He basically says, "I know you're not into Android, but it always hurts to hear things

00:21:41 ◼   ► like 'How will the market react now that there is feature X?' for a feature that has existed

00:21:44 ◼   ► before in the concept of NFC payments.

00:21:48 ◼   ► Obviously Apple will fare better at NFC payments than Google.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Companies seem protective when Google tries to enter a market.

00:21:58 ◼   ► As for how large iPhones will fare, you don't have to guess these things.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Large high end phones have been around for a while, there should be no shame in checking

00:22:04 ◼   ► how they fare in the Android world.

00:22:06 ◼   ► It's fine that you're not into Android, but it's sad, and in such topics occasionally

00:22:09 ◼   ► nerve-wracking (2) when you don't seem to know about what's happening outside of the

00:22:14 ◼   ► outside of the Apple bubble.

00:22:17 ◼   ► So basically, you know, Pomo's complaint is,

00:22:20 ◼   ► it's annoying when we talk about things Apple does

00:22:23 ◼   ► as if they're the first things of those type to exist,

00:22:25 ◼   ► and that we don't even look at the Android world to see,

00:22:28 ◼   ► like, hey, you know, this, not only is this not the first,

00:22:31 ◼   ► but we can already see in the Android world

00:22:33 ◼   ► how these things do in reality.

00:22:35 ◼   ► So my response to him or her, is it,

00:22:38 ◼   ► I don't think we know, I don't know off the top of my head.

00:22:40 ◼   ► Anyway, my response to him or her,

00:22:42 ◼   ► our pronouns are terrible in this language,

00:22:44 ◼   ► is basically, you know, there's two things.

00:22:47 ◼   ► Number one, yeah, of course we don't pay attention

00:22:49 ◼   ► as much to Android as we do with iOS

00:22:50 ◼   ► 'cause we don't use Android.

00:22:51 ◼   ► You know, none of us really use it on a regular basis.

00:22:53 ◼   ► So there's a little bit of that.

00:22:55 ◼   ► But mainly, you know, his examples of like, you know,

00:23:00 ◼   ► trying to predict how NFC will do,

00:23:02 ◼   ► trying to predict how large screen phones will sell.

00:23:05 ◼   ► Yeah, Android has those things already.

00:23:09 ◼   ► But the fact is it's different

00:23:10 ◼   ► when Apple does things like that.

00:23:12 ◼   ► It doesn't, like the market does not work the same way

00:23:15 ◼   ► when Apple does something as an Android does something

00:23:16 ◼   ► because there's so many other factors at play.

00:23:19 ◼   ► So like, you know, the payment stuff,

00:23:22 ◼   ► the NFC payment stuff, yeah,

00:23:24 ◼   ► Android phones have had that for a while

00:23:25 ◼   ► and no one in the US even knows about it.

00:23:29 ◼   ► You know, and granted the rest of the world,

00:23:31 ◼   ► NFC payments are bigger in general

00:23:33 ◼   ► and non-dumb old credit card payments

00:23:36 ◼   ► are bigger in general.

00:23:38 ◼   ► With the chip and pin stuff

00:23:39 ◼   ► and everything that came before that, you know,

00:23:41 ◼   ► But in the US, which is admittedly not the whole world,

00:23:44 ◼   ► but it's also a pretty big market

00:23:46 ◼   ► and pretty important to Apple and us,

00:23:48 ◼   ► Apple has a lot of clout.

00:23:51 ◼   ► When Apple announces something like this,

00:23:53 ◼   ► people pay attention, people hear it,

00:23:54 ◼   ► and Apple is offering basically an integrated solution

00:23:58 ◼   ► to people top to bottom.

00:24:00 ◼   ► It's branded, it will be used.

00:24:03 ◼   ► It's gonna be in people's faces.

00:24:05 ◼   ► It's gonna have all this press and marketing behind it.

00:24:08 ◼   ► It's gonna have all these deals made with the retailers.

00:24:10 ◼   ► like no Google device manufacturer or Google itself could have that kind of integration

00:24:16 ◼   ► power. So when Apple is going to attempt NFC, it's way more likely to succeed, I think,

00:24:24 ◼   ► than any of Google's efforts. And not necessarily to the exclusion of Google's efforts, Google's

00:24:28 ◼   ► efforts might also end up succeeding. But I think Apple's effort will be exactly what

00:24:34 ◼   ► Android fans hate the most. It will succeed as if it was the first one there. And I'm

00:24:39 ◼   ► I'm sorry, but that's just very likely to happen.

00:24:42 ◼   ► And it's not because no one gives Google credit, I guess.

00:24:47 ◼   ► It's because no one even knew about the Android ones

00:24:50 ◼   ► in the US for the most part.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And it's just different.

00:24:53 ◼   ► - We don't know if it will succeed or not.

00:24:55 ◼   ► But the sections that I quoted from email says,

00:24:58 ◼   ► hurts to hear how the market will react for a feature

00:25:02 ◼   ► as if it hasn't existed before.

00:25:04 ◼   ► And then the very next sentence is,

00:25:05 ◼   ► obviously Apple will throw better.

00:25:08 ◼   ► So I mean, obviously this person's been, you know,

00:25:10 ◼   ► well, if you think it's gonna fare better,

00:25:12 ◼   ► then why are you just saying it's the same?

00:25:14 ◼   ► See, the second part that you read

00:25:17 ◼   ► is even more on the nose.

00:25:19 ◼   ► As for how large iPhones will fare,

00:25:21 ◼   ► you don't have to guess these things.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Now, first of all, I don't think we were guessing, all right?

00:25:24 ◼   ► We've been discussing the market's appetite

00:25:29 ◼   ► for large phones since episode one,

00:25:31 ◼   ► literally, of this podcast, right?

00:25:35 ◼   ► And so we're not guessing how large iPhones are fair.

00:25:39 ◼   ► The large phones have been around for a while.

00:25:41 ◼   ► It's right there in the sentence.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Large iPhones.

00:25:44 ◼   ► We know how large Android phones sell roughly.

00:25:47 ◼   ► We don't know how large iPhones will sell.

00:25:49 ◼   ► There's just so many, and that's what we're talking about.

00:25:51 ◼   ► We're not pretending, oh, who will buy these things?

00:25:53 ◼   ► Because it's different.

00:25:54 ◼   ► It's a large iPhone.

00:25:55 ◼   ► It's not a large Android phone.

00:25:56 ◼   ► It's a very different product,

00:25:57 ◼   ► selling into a very different market.

00:25:59 ◼   ► And I don't think we were ignorant at all

00:26:01 ◼   ► that larger phones existed or whatever.

00:26:05 ◼   ► You can't just extrapolate from past events and say,

00:26:07 ◼   ► well, these things have always been popular,

00:26:09 ◼   ► therefore we know Apple.

00:26:10 ◼   ► I mean, what is it that we should have done

00:26:12 ◼   ► that we weren't doing?

00:26:13 ◼   ► Acknowledge the existence of Android phones?

00:26:15 ◼   ► Check.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Incorporating the appetite for large phones in general

00:26:19 ◼   ► into the possibility of a large Apple phone existing

00:26:22 ◼   ► and how it's going to do?

00:26:22 ◼   ► Check.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Like, I feel like we checked up all the check boxes on this.

00:26:26 ◼   ► We were totally incorporating all the information at hand,

00:26:29 ◼   ► but we then have to say, how is Apple different?

00:26:31 ◼   ► And as this person's feedback says,

00:26:34 ◼   ► Even he thinks, I think it's he, that Apple will fare better.

00:26:37 ◼   ► Why will they fare better?

00:26:38 ◼   ► Well, it's a different product with a different feature

00:26:41 ◼   ► set and different deals behind it.

00:26:42 ◼   ► And that's what we discussed.

00:26:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:26:44 ◼   ► That's probably too long.

00:26:45 ◼   ► But anyway, this feedback, I understand the frustration

00:26:49 ◼   ► from hearing a podcast from people

00:26:51 ◼   ► whose usage and knowledge centers

00:26:53 ◼   ► on a different platform than you.

00:26:55 ◼   ► But I do think we incorporated as much information

00:27:00 ◼   ► about the precursors to these products

00:27:03 ◼   ► as was relevant to predicting how we think they might do.

00:27:07 ◼   ► On a somewhat related note, I think

00:27:09 ◼   ► it was after the last episode that I

00:27:12 ◼   ► saw a bunch of Europeans tweet at any one of us saying,

00:27:17 ◼   ► wait, you guys don't have chip and pin?

00:27:20 ◼   ► What?

00:27:20 ◼   ► Yeah, they don't know how bad it is over here.

00:27:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it was hysterical.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Tell them about the cable companies.

00:27:25 ◼   ► Oh, it's atrocious.

00:27:26 ◼   ► But to extremely quickly give you

00:27:28 ◼   ► an idea of how bad it is here in America,

00:27:31 ◼   ► we don't have chip and pin.

00:27:32 ◼   ► although now that everyone is getting all of our credit card numbers, that's supposedly

00:27:36 ◼   ► coming.

00:27:37 ◼   ► And the other thing that Europeans could not understand is if you're at a restaurant,

00:27:41 ◼   ► the general way things work is you ask for a check, they bring you the check, you give

00:27:46 ◼   ► the server your credit card, they run away to some terminal that could be in the back

00:27:51 ◼   ► of the restaurant well out of your line of sight, swipe your card, hopefully not skim

00:27:57 ◼   ► your card, bring it back, and then you are to add the tip that you want to add, sign

00:28:03 ◼   ► the paper, and leave it.

00:28:04 ◼   ► And just hope that A, they didn't skim your card, and B, they actually put the amount

00:28:10 ◼   ► you want them to put into the point of sale system in order to charge you.

00:28:15 ◼   ► It is completely backwards here, and that's one of the reasons why I think Apple Pay or

00:28:21 ◼   ► Or any other equivalent credit card less or any sort of NFC based payment system might

00:28:28 ◼   ► actually work because we are so backwards anything will be an improvement.

00:28:34 ◼   ► The only thing and I think I might have asked or wondered this in either this show or the

00:28:37 ◼   ► other one.

00:28:38 ◼   ► I wonder if it's going to be socially awkward at the beginning to be like, "Do you have

00:28:42 ◼   ► Apple Pay?

00:28:43 ◼   ► Can I do this thing with my phone?

00:28:44 ◼   ► I've never really tried it but I kind of want to try it.

00:28:46 ◼   ► Is that okay?

00:28:47 ◼   ► Do you mind?"

00:28:48 ◼   ► I think kind of socially weird,

00:28:50 ◼   ► but I hope that we all get over that very quickly

00:28:52 ◼   ► because we are so behind Europe

00:28:54 ◼   ► when it comes to this credit card business.

00:28:55 ◼   ► It's just beyond description.

00:28:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I was thinking like, you know,

00:28:59 ◼   ► the restaurant thing is probably the biggest example,

00:29:02 ◼   ► but there's all sorts of things in the US

00:29:03 ◼   ► where like you have to give your credit card to somebody,

00:29:06 ◼   ► they swipe it and they bring it back to you,

00:29:08 ◼   ► oftentimes like far away.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Like I was like in New Jersey,

00:29:12 ◼   ► it's all full service gas stations.

00:29:14 ◼   ► And so you, as the person, you have to stay in your car

00:29:18 ◼   ► and you sit there while somebody else pumps your gas for you

00:29:22 ◼   ► and puts your credit card into the pump for you.

00:29:24 ◼   ► And there's all sorts of things like that in America,

00:29:27 ◼   ► with restaurants being the biggest,

00:29:28 ◼   ► where they're gonna have to completely revamp

00:29:32 ◼   ► the way they charge people, the physical process,

00:29:36 ◼   ► how they charge people.

00:29:38 ◼   ► And whether that's gonna be little wireless terminals

00:29:40 ◼   ► or what they bring to you, I don't know.

00:29:42 ◼   ► There's all sorts of options,

00:29:43 ◼   ► but there's gonna be a lot of like major disruption

00:29:48 ◼   ► of minor things in the US to make this happen.

00:29:52 ◼   ► - We got feedback about that as well,

00:29:53 ◼   ► which I think directly echoing something

00:29:56 ◼   ► that Marco said in the last show,

00:29:58 ◼   ► then the idea is that, you know,

00:29:59 ◼   ► so Chip and Pin is coming to our country

00:30:01 ◼   ► because the fraud rates have ticked up a little bit

00:30:04 ◼   ► and now it is economically feasible for them to do that.

00:30:06 ◼   ► And so there'll be new point of sale hardware.

00:30:08 ◼   ► And as Marco said in the last show,

00:30:09 ◼   ► new point of sale hardware is an opportunity

00:30:11 ◼   ► to also have NFC in that new point-of-sale hardware.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Like Apple is coming in at more or less just the right time

00:30:17 ◼   ► when there's gonna be a lot of turnover

00:30:18 ◼   ► in point-of-sale hardware and retail anyway.

00:30:20 ◼   ► And adding NFC to the mix is a good thing to do

00:30:24 ◼   ► is that retail stores are gonna wanna buy

00:30:26 ◼   ► whatever the most forward-looking point-of-sale hardware is

00:30:28 ◼   ► so they don't have to replace it again soon.

00:30:31 ◼   ► So we expect the state of the art

00:30:36 ◼   ► in payment processing in the US

00:30:38 ◼   ► to slowly lurch forward towards the future.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Will it be Apple Pay everywhere?

00:30:42 ◼   ► Will it just be Chip and Pin everywhere?

00:30:44 ◼   ► Will it be some mix?

00:30:45 ◼   ► Anything's gotta be better than where we are today.

00:30:47 ◼   ► So I look forward to that over the next few years.

00:30:49 ◼   ► Although knowing how slowly these things go,

00:30:52 ◼   ► it could be many years, so we'll see.

00:30:54 ◼   ► - Do you guys like full service gas stations?

00:30:56 ◼   ► - No, nobody likes full service.

00:30:57 ◼   ► - I do. - Nobody likes New Jersey

00:30:58 ◼   ► and nobody likes full service gas.

00:30:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:31:01 ◼   ► - I do.

00:31:01 ◼   ► - Why? - Yeah, there's someone

00:31:02 ◼   ► here who does.

00:31:03 ◼   ► - Why do you like full service gas?

00:31:05 ◼   ► That just seems so weird.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Like whenever I go, say, to your house,

00:31:09 ◼   ► Like say I did, what was it, last weekend,

00:31:11 ◼   ► the weekend before, we always go up the Jersey Turnpike

00:31:14 ◼   ► and go to the token Sanoko's

00:31:17 ◼   ► and we get our full service gas

00:31:19 ◼   ► and it's always so awkward to me.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And then they like do your windshield, which is really nice.

00:31:23 ◼   ► And then there's that ambiguous moment where you're like,

00:31:25 ◼   ► should I tip this person?

00:31:26 ◼   ► Do I need to tip this person?

00:31:27 ◼   ► - They do your windshield and you think, both of you,

00:31:30 ◼   ► I can't believe both of you, like, first of all,

00:31:32 ◼   ► do you, what they're doing your windshield with

00:31:34 ◼   ► is this like bucket full of disgusting, dirty water

00:31:37 ◼   ► filled with sand that's gonna scratch your windshield.

00:31:40 ◼   ► And then both of you, do you want someone else

00:31:41 ◼   ► messing with your gas cap and just shoving the thing

00:31:43 ◼   ► in there and do it?

00:31:44 ◼   ► Like, it's terrible.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Why would you let someone touch your beautiful,

00:31:47 ◼   ► precious, super expensive car?

00:31:49 ◼   ► Like, they don't care about any of that stuff there.

00:31:51 ◼   ► They're just, oh, no, not good.

00:31:54 ◼   ► - Well, I don't mind them doing the windshield,

00:31:55 ◼   ► but I don't like the idea of full service gas to begin with.

00:31:58 ◼   ► I do like that Jersey gas is considerably cheaper

00:32:01 ◼   ► than any other of the surrounding states,

00:32:03 ◼   ► but I do not like full service gas,

00:32:05 ◼   ► and I would even rather get out of my car in the winter

00:32:07 ◼   ► when it's freaking freezing and handle my own gas business,

00:32:11 ◼   ► then have someone come to me and ask, what do you want?

00:32:15 ◼   ► And then you got to tell them, oh, well, I want premium.

00:32:16 ◼   ► And then you have to like give them the eagle eye side eye,

00:32:19 ◼   ► making sure they actually put in premium.

00:32:21 ◼   ► I hate full service gas.

00:32:23 ◼   ► - Well, the gas is cheaper in New Jersey

00:32:24 ◼   ► because it just condenses out of the air over newer.

00:32:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:32:30 ◼   ► - Oh, you're gonna get so much email.

00:32:31 ◼   ► Oh, that's fantastic.

00:32:33 ◼   ► Oh, that's good times.

00:32:34 ◼   ► Anyway, all right, let's talk about something awesome.

00:32:37 ◼   ► - Can I tell you why I like full service?

00:32:38 ◼   ► - Oh, if you wanna try to defend

00:32:40 ◼   ► that ridiculous opinion, feel free.

00:32:42 ◼   ► - I'm gonna go with he's really lazy, what's your guess?

00:32:44 ◼   ► - He's too spoiled.

00:32:46 ◼   ► - The same thing kind of, all right, go ahead.

00:32:48 ◼   ► - I like full service, well first of all,

00:32:49 ◼   ► there's two gas stations in my town.

00:32:51 ◼   ► They're both full service,

00:32:53 ◼   ► and they're both like little independently owned things.

00:32:55 ◼   ► And the reason I like it so much is because

00:32:58 ◼   ► I don't have to get out of my car

00:32:59 ◼   ► and get my hands covered in that gas hand smell.

00:33:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:33:05 ◼   ► Why don't you just put like hand sanitizer in your cars?

00:33:07 ◼   ► - I have, I have a like a little bit.

00:33:09 ◼   ► It's the only time I use hand sanitizer ever

00:33:11 ◼   ► is I have this little thing in my car.

00:33:13 ◼   ► - Hand sanitizer spells worse than gas hands.

00:33:16 ◼   ► Both of them are very volatile.

00:33:16 ◼   ► - Actually I tend to. - They will evaporate quickly

00:33:18 ◼   ► and you don't have to worry about it.

00:33:19 ◼   ► It's not like a lingering smell

00:33:20 ◼   ► like that you're not gonna be able to get off it.

00:33:22 ◼   ► It will evaporate.

00:33:23 ◼   ► It'll be fine, trust me.

00:33:24 ◼   ► - I actually think I would agree

00:33:25 ◼   ► that gas hands smell better than antiseptic hands,

00:33:29 ◼   ► but whatever.

00:33:31 ◼   ► It does not surprise me Marco

00:33:32 ◼   ► that you do not wanna get out of your M5

00:33:35 ◼   ► in order to pump your own fuel.

00:33:36 ◼   ► - But you should not want those people

00:33:37 ◼   ► touching your car at all.

00:33:39 ◼   ► And Casey, you should not want whatever water

00:33:41 ◼   ► they're washing your windshield with.

00:33:42 ◼   ► Just go look, get out of your car

00:33:44 ◼   ► and look where they're dipping and rubbing on your,

00:33:46 ◼   ► they're making it dirtier.

00:33:47 ◼   ► They're not cleaning your windshield.

00:33:49 ◼   ► - You say that, but especially in the summertime

00:33:51 ◼   ► and especially late in the evening,

00:33:53 ◼   ► my windshield is often so disgusting from bugs

00:33:56 ◼   ► that it's actually almost to the point

00:33:58 ◼   ► of being a safety hazard.

00:34:00 ◼   ► And so I appreciate the fact that I can now see something,

00:34:03 ◼   ► even if it's a little cloudier perhaps than it once was.

00:34:06 ◼   ► At least it's not completely opaque because of bugs.

00:34:09 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:34:11 ◼   ► Anyway, Igloo is an internet you'll actually like.

00:34:13 ◼   ► Igloo is built with easy to use apps like shared calendars,

00:34:17 ◼   ► Twitter like micro blogs, file sharing,

00:34:18 ◼   ► task management and more.

00:34:20 ◼   ► You can have all of this in your internet for your company.

00:34:23 ◼   ► And you know, most internets are terrible

00:34:26 ◼   ► as almost anybody who's ever used one can attest.

00:34:29 ◼   ► Igloo is so good.

00:34:32 ◼   ► It is everything you need to work better together

00:34:34 ◼   ► in a very configurable cloud platform.

00:34:37 ◼   ► You can learn more at igloosoftware.com/atp.

00:34:42 ◼   ► With igloos responsive design,

00:34:43 ◼   ► your internet already works like a champ

00:34:45 ◼   ► on virtually any device, iOS, Android, even Blackberry.

00:34:49 ◼   ► If you actually, I guess in the corporate world,

00:34:51 ◼   ► it's probably important to have Blackberry support,

00:34:53 ◼   ► but even there, I mean, do people still use Blackberries?

00:34:56 ◼   ► - No.

00:34:57 ◼   ► - Jon, do you see any Blackberries at your job?

00:34:58 ◼   ► - I have, I still do see them.

00:35:00 ◼   ► they still do exist.

00:35:02 ◼   ► - You probably are like the most normal job,

00:35:05 ◼   ► you're probably exposed to the most normal people

00:35:07 ◼   ► in your job, the three of us.

00:35:08 ◼   ► Would you say that or Casey,

00:35:09 ◼   ► you think you are with clients and stuff?

00:35:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, see it's a tough call.

00:35:11 ◼   ► My actual employer is relatively progressive and small,

00:35:15 ◼   ► but a lot of the companies we work with

00:35:17 ◼   ► are huge financial services companies

00:35:19 ◼   ► and they're, let's just go with different.

00:35:22 ◼   ► - Nice, anyway, if your company still is unfortunate enough

00:35:28 ◼   ► to have Blackberry users, Igloo will even work on those.

00:35:31 ◼   ► They are that good.

00:35:32 ◼   ► It also even works on your new iPhone 6 Plus

00:35:34 ◼   ► right from the very start.

00:35:36 ◼   ► They've already tested it and it works.

00:35:38 ◼   ► So you can review a document,

00:35:39 ◼   ► you can post a project update,

00:35:40 ◼   ► you can change your administrative settings

00:35:42 ◼   ► or talk about how that U2 album

00:35:43 ◼   ► snuck onto your iTunes library all from your phone,

00:35:46 ◼   ► no matter who makes your phone or what size it is.

00:35:48 ◼   ► Plus, when you design your Igloo internet,

00:35:50 ◼   ► any change you make to the look and feel

00:35:52 ◼   ► carries across all of these devices.

00:35:55 ◼   ► The file preview engine is also fully HTML5 compatible.

00:35:59 ◼   ► So if one of your coworkers uploads a proposal

00:36:01 ◼   ► or a JavaScript file, you can preview in line,

00:36:03 ◼   ► add comments, upload new versions or assign action items.

00:36:07 ◼   ► That's a thing, action items from your phone.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Just this peak, Gartner, the big analyst firm,

00:36:12 ◼   ► I'm an analyst, you know,

00:36:13 ◼   ► released their famed Magic Quadrant

00:36:15 ◼   ► for social software in the workplace.

00:36:17 ◼   ► That sounds awesome.

00:36:19 ◼   ► Igloo appears in this Magic Quadrant report

00:36:21 ◼   ► for the sixth consecutive year,

00:36:23 ◼   ► alongside tech giants like Microsoft, IBM, Google,

00:36:26 ◼   ► VMware, Salesforce.com, and SAP.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Is it S-A-P or SAP?

00:36:30 ◼   ► - S-A-P.

00:36:31 ◼   ► - I'm gonna go with SAP.

00:36:32 ◼   ► In a report that values the size of the vendor,

00:36:34 ◼   ► in Gartner terms, that means viability,

00:36:37 ◼   ► Igloo is praised for their responsiveness

00:36:39 ◼   ► and customer experience.

00:36:41 ◼   ► This quadrant thing, oh man, I saw this once at a company.

00:36:44 ◼   ► Oh, there are so many, it's all full of business terms.

00:36:48 ◼   ► To me, it might as well be written in a different language.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Business people understand it, I don't.

00:36:53 ◼   ► But anyway, if you understand it,

00:36:55 ◼   ► igloo ranks very well in it.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Here's an excerpt from Gartner's profile of igloo.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Feedback from igloo's reference customers,

00:37:01 ◼   ► reference customers, oh man, was consistently positive.

00:37:04 ◼   ► They praised the product's quick deployment,

00:37:06 ◼   ► configuration and customization flexibility

00:37:08 ◼   ► with self-service options for non-technical users,

00:37:10 ◼   ► control over branding and information organization

00:37:13 ◼   ► and ease of use.

00:37:14 ◼   ► They also praised the responsiveness of igloo

00:37:15 ◼   ► as an organization.

00:37:17 ◼   ► So if you understood that and your company

00:37:18 ◼   ► has a legacy internet built on SharePoint

00:37:20 ◼   ► their old portal technology,

00:37:22 ◼   ► you should definitely give Igloo a try.

00:37:23 ◼   ► They're way better than that.

00:37:24 ◼   ► They're cool people.

00:37:26 ◼   ► They're big fans of our work and all of our friends' work.

00:37:28 ◼   ► They said they've supported us for years.

00:37:30 ◼   ► And I can't say enough, if you need an internet,

00:37:34 ◼   ► start with them.

00:37:35 ◼   ► And one of the cool things is,

00:37:36 ◼   ► you can get up to 10 people on Igloo for free.

00:37:39 ◼   ► They have this free tier, zero to 10 people,

00:37:41 ◼   ► I guess zero isn't really a usage,

00:37:43 ◼   ► but one to 10 people on Igloo, it's free.

00:37:46 ◼   ► After that, it's very reasonably priced.

00:37:48 ◼   ► So check it out.

00:37:49 ◼   ► go to igloosoftware.com/atp.

00:37:52 ◼   ► Once again, igloosoftware.com/atp

00:37:55 ◼   ► for an internet you will actually like.

00:37:58 ◼   ► - You know, just to build on that,

00:37:59 ◼   ► I am not a fan of the Gartner analyses,

00:38:03 ◼   ► but I am a fan of iglo.

00:38:04 ◼   ► - The quadrant report.

00:38:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh, it's so bad.

00:38:06 ◼   ► It's so businessy, I need a shower.

00:38:08 ◼   ► - They're magic quadrants.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Regular quadrants are boring and unmagical.

00:38:12 ◼   ► Magic quadrants can revolutionize your industry

00:38:14 ◼   ► with reference customer relationships.

00:38:16 ◼   ► - Oh, it's so bad.

00:38:17 ◼   ► But igloo is very good.

00:38:18 ◼   ► So if you're turned off by hearing the word Gartner,

00:38:22 ◼   ► don't be turned off about Igloo 'cause they're awesome.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Anyway, we can talk about the Apple Watch.

00:38:27 ◼   ► - Yes, that was right after we finished the last show

00:38:30 ◼   ► where we were talking about, you know,

00:38:32 ◼   ► the Apple Watch starts at 3.49, where does it end?

00:38:35 ◼   ► And we were all given our different numbers and stuff.

00:38:37 ◼   ► - Oh, we were way off.

00:38:38 ◼   ► - Right after it was over, I saw a tweet that said,

00:38:41 ◼   ► "Did you know the Apple Watch is solid gold?"

00:38:43 ◼   ► And no, I did not know they have,

00:38:45 ◼   ► I mean, we think we even said gold-plated on the show.

00:38:47 ◼   ► Apparently the gold watch is not some other metal

00:38:50 ◼   ► with gold plating on it, but is in fact solid gold alloy,

00:38:53 ◼   ► some metal that is a very odd portion of gold.

00:38:55 ◼   ► And so that takes all of our estimates

00:38:57 ◼   ► and just based on the raw materials alone,

00:39:00 ◼   ► just shoves them up thousands of dollars.

00:39:02 ◼   ► So forget about what we said on the last show,

00:39:04 ◼   ► solid gold totally changes the equation.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Now there's still the question of,

00:39:07 ◼   ► all right, so it's solid gold,

00:39:09 ◼   ► all of our estimates go up by a few thousand bucks,

00:39:10 ◼   ► whatever.

00:39:12 ◼   ► The remaining question is,

00:39:13 ◼   ► what we were getting at last show,

00:39:16 ◼   ► will Apple be willing to charge a price for its product

00:39:19 ◼   ► that is just massively out of whack

00:39:22 ◼   ► with the cost of materials and labor

00:39:24 ◼   ► and so on and so forth?

00:39:25 ◼   ► So for example, if they could get a 50% product margin

00:39:30 ◼   ► selling their high-end watch for $8,000,

00:39:33 ◼   ► would they say, "Well, that's a 50% margin.

00:39:36 ◼   ► Why don't we sell it for 16,000?

00:39:38 ◼   ► No additional cost of materials."

00:39:39 ◼   ► But I was saying, "But you know what?

00:39:41 ◼   ► At this price range, what the hell?

00:39:42 ◼   ► Who cares?

00:39:43 ◼   ► Just crank that number up."

00:39:45 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:39:46 ◼   ► And that's the question, like when you get to,

00:39:48 ◼   ► like you, Chris, there's a name for this.

00:39:50 ◼   ► - Veblen Goods or, yeah.

00:39:51 ◼   ► - It's like when, instead of the, when the demand,

00:39:55 ◼   ► oh, I'm gonna get this wrong.

00:39:56 ◼   ► Someone Google it so I don't have to try to say it,

00:39:59 ◼   ► since it's off the top of my head.

00:39:59 ◼   ► But anyway, it's once you reach the very high end,

00:40:02 ◼   ► the rules of supply and demand go all wacky,

00:40:05 ◼   ► and suddenly the price starts going up and up and up

00:40:08 ◼   ► as the number of people who can afford it goes down,

00:40:10 ◼   ► and it just becomes like a status symbol

00:40:13 ◼   ► or something that you want to buy because if it's rarity,

00:40:18 ◼   ► kind of like, you know,

00:40:19 ◼   ► there's not gonna be many people with this watch.

00:40:22 ◼   ► Anyway, we don't know what Apple's gonna do in that area.

00:40:25 ◼   ► We should buy, still think it's really interesting

00:40:26 ◼   ► to see what the price is gonna be,

00:40:27 ◼   ► but I think we already know just based on the fact

00:40:29 ◼   ► that it's solid gold,

00:40:30 ◼   ► that the price of this thing is gonna be huge.

00:40:33 ◼   ► So high that it'll eliminate almost everybody

00:40:36 ◼   ► from even looking at that watch, except for the very wealthy.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And Gruber had his watch review up

00:40:41 ◼   ► and he talked about this as well,

00:40:43 ◼   ► and we didn't really talk about it too much.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Now that we know that these things are gonna be

00:40:46 ◼   ► comfortably into the super expensive jewelry category

00:40:49 ◼   ► at the high end, so many more questions open up.

00:40:52 ◼   ► One of the ones that has been discussed is,

00:40:54 ◼   ► who's gonna buy something that expensive

00:40:58 ◼   ► when it has built-in obsolescence

00:41:00 ◼   ► in a way that like a Rolex does not?

00:41:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's a big one.

00:41:03 ◼   ► I wonder, first of all, I definitely recommend

00:41:07 ◼   ► anybody interested in the watch and its pricing

00:41:09 ◼   ► and the watch market read Gruber's article about this,

00:41:12 ◼   ► we'll link to it in the show notes,

00:41:13 ◼   ► it's very, very good and very relevant to this,

00:41:15 ◼   ► because he knows, clearly he knows more

00:41:17 ◼   ► about the watch market than we do. (laughs)

00:41:19 ◼   ► And so I think, you know, it's looking very, very likely,

00:41:24 ◼   ► based on how much watches that are just made

00:41:28 ◼   ► from these metals usually sell for.

00:41:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's safe to say the gold one

00:41:33 ◼   ► is probably gonna be at least $5,000,

00:41:36 ◼   ► probably at least $10,000,

00:41:38 ◼   ► just because of the amount of gold in it.

00:41:39 ◼   ► I mean, gold is very, very expensive, and it's solid gold.

00:41:42 ◼   ► It's just a lot of metal, as we said.

00:41:44 ◼   ► So the question, I think, is,

00:41:47 ◼   ► you know, you can look at this and you can say,

00:41:50 ◼   ► all right, well, Apple might be in this

00:41:52 ◼   ► for just wanting the kind of margins

00:41:55 ◼   ► that these kind of high-fashion things command,

00:41:57 ◼   ► especially something like this.

00:41:59 ◼   ► It's made of, it's priced as some multiple

00:42:03 ◼   ► of a precious metal's value.

00:42:06 ◼   ► So it's already, you know, it's a decent multiple

00:42:09 ◼   ► of an already expensive source material.

00:42:12 ◼   ► So you can look at it and say,

00:42:13 ◼   ► well maybe Apple wants just the margins.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Maybe Apple wants that kind of product in their line,

00:42:19 ◼   ► you know, to be fancy and profitable.

00:42:22 ◼   ► The other possibility that I thought of is maybe,

00:42:25 ◼   ► you know, maybe Apple's goal here is not necessarily

00:42:29 ◼   ► to make a ton of money on watches,

00:42:32 ◼   ► but to sell a lot of watches.

00:42:34 ◼   ► and that many people, because a watch is something you wear,

00:42:37 ◼   ► it's an accessory, it's a fashion item,

00:42:39 ◼   ► it's a, you know, they kept saying personal,

00:42:42 ◼   ► intimate, all this stuff, but it really is,

00:42:44 ◼   ► it's a fashion item.

00:42:45 ◼   ► Maybe they realize that there's a whole lot of people who,

00:42:49 ◼   ► any smartwatch out there today,

00:42:51 ◼   ► like all the Google Wear ones and the other ones,

00:42:54 ◼   ► they're so ugly, and they're so like, you know,

00:42:57 ◼   ► kinda cheap relative to these fancy watches,

00:42:59 ◼   ► like maybe Apple has to offer watches

00:43:03 ◼   ► in these high-end metals that are at these high-end prices

00:43:06 ◼   ► just to get a certain group of people

00:43:08 ◼   ► to even consider wearing and buying them.

00:43:10 ◼   ► So maybe their goal is,

00:43:13 ◼   ► we want these people to be wearing an Apple Watch,

00:43:16 ◼   ► using it with their Apple phone,

00:43:18 ◼   ► and maybe the only way to get them to wear a watch

00:43:20 ◼   ► is to offer a stainless steel one and to offer a gold one.

00:43:24 ◼   ► And so there's gonna be certain people

00:43:25 ◼   ► for whom that is the case,

00:43:27 ◼   ► where they won't consider a cheap plastic

00:43:30 ◼   ► and aluminum electronic watch.

00:43:32 ◼   ► that'll be too geeky for them,

00:43:33 ◼   ► but if you make it out of this high-end stuff,

00:43:37 ◼   ► then you can reach a certain number of customers

00:43:39 ◼   ► who otherwise would never consider

00:43:40 ◼   ► wearing a computer watch on their wrist.

00:43:42 ◼   ► - I don't know if it's about reaching that audience,

00:43:45 ◼   ► 'cause I understand wearing something

00:43:47 ◼   ► is very, very different than just holding it,

00:43:49 ◼   ► but I don't think that it looks less geeky enough,

00:43:54 ◼   ► but when you dress it up, when you doll it up

00:43:56 ◼   ► and make the fancy wristbands and all that other stuff,

00:43:58 ◼   ► which by the way, those wrist things

00:43:59 ◼   ► are probably gonna cost a bazillion dollars too,

00:44:02 ◼   ► But if you dress it all up, it's still a watch

00:44:05 ◼   ► that's basically a screen.

00:44:06 ◼   ► It's still a little computer on your wrist.

00:44:08 ◼   ► So I don't know how much geekiness you are removing.

00:44:14 ◼   ► If there's some audience out there that says,

00:44:16 ◼   ► "Well, I don't wanna wear anything.

00:44:17 ◼   ► "I don't wanna wear something

00:44:18 ◼   ► "that looks like I'm wearing a computer on my wrist."

00:44:19 ◼   ► It's still gonna look like you're wearing a computer

00:44:21 ◼   ► on your wrist no matter how nice the band it is

00:44:22 ◼   ► and no matter what precious metals it's made of.

00:44:26 ◼   ► And by the way, I looked up on the Wikipedia page,

00:44:28 ◼   ► BeblinGood is a good whose demand

00:44:30 ◼   ► is proportional to its price.

00:44:31 ◼   ► So it's like, as we raise the price,

00:44:34 ◼   ► suddenly the demand goes up because all it's,

00:44:36 ◼   ► I'm not interested in an $8,000 watch because who cares,

00:44:38 ◼   ► but make that same watch $30,000

00:44:40 ◼   ► and suddenly I'm interested because,

00:44:41 ◼   ► well, I have a $30,000 Apple watch.

00:44:44 ◼   ► So anyway, I don't know if Apple's going to be entering

00:44:46 ◼   ► that realm and the obsolescence issue is definitely there.

00:44:49 ◼   ► The angle that I've seen thrown around about that is like,

00:44:52 ◼   ► well, that's even more of a status.

00:44:53 ◼   ► It was like, I bought this $30,000 watch.

00:44:55 ◼   ► It's going to be a paperweight in two years

00:44:57 ◼   ► because the new one's going to be out.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Look how rich I am.

00:44:59 ◼   ► It's like the, I am rich application, but.

00:45:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think the obsolescence thing

00:45:04 ◼   ► is gonna prove to be a really big deal

00:45:07 ◼   ► and a really big problem for Apple

00:45:08 ◼   ► trying to sell these premium price watches

00:45:10 ◼   ► because even if you're some really super rich guy

00:45:15 ◼   ► in a place that really values showing your wealth like that,

00:45:19 ◼   ► of which there are many places,

00:45:20 ◼   ► although I'm pretty sure that the tech geek world

00:45:23 ◼   ► in California is pretty much the opposite of that,

00:45:25 ◼   ► which is interesting and worth talking about on its own,

00:45:26 ◼   ► but even if you're in a place like that,

00:45:30 ◼   ► If you have a $30,000 watch, that's a really cool thing.

00:45:33 ◼   ► That's like, wow, that's a nice watch.

00:45:36 ◼   ► That's gonna be a family heirloom.

00:45:38 ◼   ► If you have a $10,000 gold iWatch

00:45:42 ◼   ► that's three years ago's model,

00:45:45 ◼   ► that's like carrying around an iPad One.

00:45:47 ◼   ► - It's not even gonna work anymore.

00:45:49 ◼   ► Once the battery is dead, you'll have to replace the battery

00:45:52 ◼   ► and I don't know how long they're gonna,

00:45:54 ◼   ► how long you're gonna be able to find

00:45:56 ◼   ► the exact, correct, weird little battery

00:45:58 ◼   ► that fits inside there, 'cause it's gonna,

00:46:00 ◼   ► It's not going to be easily replaceable.

00:46:01 ◼   ► You're going to have to take the whole thing apart

00:46:02 ◼   ► and find the weird bet.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Like, it's just not going to have longevity

00:46:06 ◼   ► of the other devices, which may be fine.

00:46:08 ◼   ► Like, I talked about the Mac 2FX last time.

00:46:10 ◼   ► I think I tried to guess about the prices,

00:46:11 ◼   ► and someone either emailed or tweeted today

00:46:13 ◼   ► that actually I was low in my price.

00:46:15 ◼   ► Like, how much was the Mac 2FX in today's dollars?

00:46:18 ◼   ► And some were in to say that it was like $22,000,

00:46:21 ◼   ► not like $16,000.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:46:22 ◼   ► And so that's the other thing where it's like,

00:46:24 ◼   ► well, Apple's going to sell a watch for $10,000.

00:46:27 ◼   ► That's outrageous.

00:46:27 ◼   ► Like, you can spec a $10,000 Mac Pro right now.

00:46:29 ◼   ► It's all about what do you think is worth $10,000?

00:46:32 ◼   ► Is the utility provided by the Mac Pro worth $10,000?

00:46:36 ◼   ► Maybe if you work at Pixar, right?

00:46:38 ◼   ► And that's a tool that you need to make your movie

00:46:40 ◼   ► that's gonna make hundreds of millions of dollars,

00:46:42 ◼   ► you can justify buying a $10,000 computer.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Is $10,000 close to the price of goods in the Mac Pro?

00:46:47 ◼   ► I think the margins are probably pretty good on that,

00:46:49 ◼   ► but Apple has to buy the GPUs from AMD

00:46:52 ◼   ► and it's gotta buy the CPUs from Intel

00:46:54 ◼   ► and it's manufactured nicely

00:46:55 ◼   ► and it has to buy the RAM from somebody.

00:46:58 ◼   ► It's in the ballpark.

00:46:59 ◼   ► maybe, you know, 100% margins or something.

00:47:02 ◼   ► It's not like, you know, well, the Mac Pro goes $3,000,

00:47:07 ◼   ► $5,000, and then goes $50,000.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Like there's no 50 or $100,000 Mac Pro,

00:47:11 ◼   ► except for that like weird red one.

00:47:12 ◼   ► - There was a million dollars.

00:47:13 ◼   ► - Weird red one that Marco tried to bid on,

00:47:16 ◼   ► but thanks to collectors, I don't remember.

00:47:17 ◼   ► - I got dramatically out of it.

00:47:19 ◼   ► - So I still think we have to watch to see, huh,

00:47:22 ◼   ► to see what the top end price is gonna be.

00:47:25 ◼   ► And this is one of those cases where I actually will be

00:47:27 ◼   ► looking at sort of the eye supply type of breakdown not so much from my supply

00:47:30 ◼   ► but from people who know things about jewelry and stuff to say what it's

00:47:35 ◼   ► difficult because again as we were putting it out in his article he was

00:47:38 ◼   ► comparing it against Rolexes and stuff but those aren't priced based on the

00:47:42 ◼   ► goods and labor plus a percentage either they're priced based on how much they

00:47:45 ◼   ► think the market will bear which has almost no connection to they you know

00:47:49 ◼   ► anything else in them it's just like the scale goes crazy where you just it's the

00:47:52 ◼   ► same exact watch with the same movement you do it in gold if you just take that

00:47:56 ◼   ► Other watch and its movement and then add in the price of the weight of the gold

00:47:59 ◼   ► plus a little bit extra for like shaping it into that shape and then like triple it and that's the price of the gold one if

00:48:05 ◼   ► for no reason just because well, you know just because

00:48:08 ◼   ► so I

00:48:10 ◼   ► You know

00:48:11 ◼   ► I think this is mostly academic because as soon as you start entering into the realm of

00:48:15 ◼   ► multi whether it's multi thousand dollar computers like the Mac Pro or

00:48:18 ◼   ► Multipousand-dollar watches like this hop and I watches so few people buy those like that's not how Apple's going to make its money

00:48:24 ◼   ► It's not like oh apples getting greedy like they are not making their money by selling $10,000 Mac pros

00:48:29 ◼   ► They're not gonna make their money by sending selling $10,000. I watch is there god damn it this

00:48:34 ◼   ► Maybe this is it maybe like I'm entering the eye touch phase of my life anyway

00:48:39 ◼   ► They're not gonna make their money that way when you see in the big financials

00:48:44 ◼   ► they have to sell tons and tons of the the cheaper ones, but

00:48:49 ◼   ► If Apple really wants to move into the the realm of fashion

00:48:53 ◼   ► Which I think is probably a good move at this point as technology shrinks and as the price of compute drops to zero

00:48:59 ◼   ► That's a better market to be in than trying to sell technology

00:49:03 ◼   ► It's a typical Apple move to say well

00:49:08 ◼   ► We should get the high-end like we want all the best customers in the market and that includes the people who buy ten thousand on

00:49:13 ◼   ► Mac pros like we want some of that market. We're not just gonna say oh well. They'll have to buy different computer

00:49:18 ◼   ► But you know it's like look at PC. Do we want the the people who buy $300 PCs?

00:49:23 ◼   ► No, we want the whole top end of the market from like $900 up to 10,000

00:49:26 ◼   ► We want that whole market and we know we're not going to sell a lot of $10,000 max, but we're going to offer one

00:49:31 ◼   ► And I think they know they're not going to sell a lot of $10,000 watches

00:49:35 ◼   ► But they're going to offer one

00:49:36 ◼   ► And I think that leads to the next question about these watches these gold watches and the bands and everything like that

00:49:42 ◼   ► How the hell do you buy one? We talked about this a little bit in the last show

00:49:45 ◼   ► But Scott McDelty had a good tweet today. He said if I'm buying a $20,000 watch

00:49:49 ◼   ► I don't want to raise my hand so some teenager with an iPad can check me out

00:49:52 ◼   ► He's referring to the experience of going to an Apple store and trying to I wonder if you do self-checkout with $20,000 gold

00:49:59 ◼   ► They go think can I just scan this take a picture with my phone? I'm just walking out. Yeah, how are they gonna sell this?

00:50:04 ◼   ► Yeah, well a couple other people pointed out like are they even gonna stock this in the store?

00:50:08 ◼   ► Yeah, like is it behind is it behind a big case with a key?

00:50:11 ◼   ► No, I don't think so

00:50:12 ◼   ► Like is it under a jewelry counter or their separate section of the store where there's like a jeweler and a velvet like

00:50:16 ◼   ► The just the logistics of how do you let someone see this this watch with this band with this X?

00:50:22 ◼   ► Is it all gonna be through third party sellers? Like I don't understand how they're gonna sell this in the Apple Store

00:50:28 ◼   ► I mean, I'm guessing first of all

00:50:30 ◼   ► I bet it's I bet it's gonna be very rare to actually find one of these in stock in an Apple Store

00:50:35 ◼   ► Second of all, I I would I would go also Gruber said this I I would say that

00:50:41 ◼   ► There there has to be some kind of store redesign on the horizon

00:50:45 ◼   ► I'm guessing one of the reasons why Apple has hired people like Angela Ahrens, however, you say her name. I'm sorry

00:50:52 ◼   ► one of the reasons why people has hired why Apple has hired people who are from

00:50:56 ◼   ► luxury retail brands and luxury retail experience and fashion retail experience is

00:51:01 ◼   ► Because they're they're most likely working on a major redesign to their stores to integrate things like to integrate the watch first

00:51:09 ◼   ► and then potentially future fashionable items or even just a redesign in general. I think their stores are

00:51:15 ◼   ► They're okay, but they don't really have like an upscale feel anymore

00:51:20 ◼   ► They did when they first launched but now there's just too many people. It's kind of old. It's plenty upscale

00:51:26 ◼   ► It's just yeah, it's just too many damn people there like and they're not gonna solve that problem

00:51:30 ◼   ► That's that's the issue is like they could solve that something by opening different kinds of stores like boutique stores or whatever

00:51:35 ◼   ► but even within their current product line,

00:51:38 ◼   ► like the Beats headphones, the iPhone 5C,

00:51:41 ◼   ► and basically just like the existence of all the cases

00:51:44 ◼   ► for their existing phones.

00:51:45 ◼   ► There's already that problem of when you go into a store,

00:51:48 ◼   ► you say, which phone do I want?

00:51:49 ◼   ► You can go from table to table

00:51:50 ◼   ► and see all the different colors.

00:51:52 ◼   ► A lot of the time you're like, which case do I want?

00:51:53 ◼   ► And the Apple Store people are really good about,

00:51:55 ◼   ► oh, we'll just take that case out of the box

00:51:57 ◼   ► and put it on to see how you fit.

00:51:58 ◼   ► But like, it's a very informal process.

00:52:00 ◼   ► And once you get into, and the Beats headphones,

00:52:02 ◼   ► like I know they come in all sorts of colors

00:52:04 ◼   ► and everything too.

00:52:05 ◼   ► it's more like picking out clothes where you have to have,

00:52:08 ◼   ► or I don't know what the best equivalent is.

00:52:09 ◼   ► If you can mix and match things

00:52:11 ◼   ► and you wanna see which combination you like,

00:52:13 ◼   ► do I like the iPhone 5C in this color with this color case?

00:52:17 ◼   ► Do I want this?

00:52:18 ◼   ► If it's more than just picking

00:52:19 ◼   ► from one of five different colors that are available,

00:52:21 ◼   ► once you get into combinations,

00:52:23 ◼   ► they have to come up with a way to make that an experience

00:52:27 ◼   ► that people want.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Even if they don't buy it in the Apple Store,

00:52:31 ◼   ► even if they buy it online from the online store,

00:52:33 ◼   ► They want to go to the store and see what does the, you know, maybe they'll have like

00:52:37 ◼   ► dummy watches like what does this this band look like with this watch and the watch itself

00:52:42 ◼   ► is not gold, but it's just like maybe you just do it all with the aluminum one because

00:52:45 ◼   ► they're all compatible anyway, or maybe they have one that's painted gold like it's a fake

00:52:49 ◼   ► one.

00:52:50 ◼   ► I don't I don't know how they deal with that.

00:52:51 ◼   ► I'm not sure that the bands are going to be sold separately.

00:52:54 ◼   ► Do we know that they have some separately because people are going to want multiple

00:52:57 ◼   ► bands for the same watch.

00:52:59 ◼   ► I'm guessing, like the cheap one, the sport one,

00:53:03 ◼   ► which is probably what they mean

00:53:04 ◼   ► when they say it starts at 350,

00:53:06 ◼   ► and it basically is like, you know, it's aluminum,

00:53:08 ◼   ► it doesn't even have sapphire, it's aluminum and glass,

00:53:10 ◼   ► it's basically an iPhone construction,

00:53:12 ◼   ► and it has these like neon rubber bands, basically.

00:53:16 ◼   ► I'm guessing they're gonna use that as a differentiator

00:53:20 ◼   ► so that if you want the nice,

00:53:22 ◼   ► like one of the metal or leather bands,

00:53:25 ◼   ► I bet you gotta buy up.

00:53:26 ◼   ► I bet you gotta get the thousand dollar stainless steel

00:53:28 ◼   ► and Sapphire model.

00:53:30 ◼   ► - But they can't do that.

00:53:30 ◼   ► They have to sell them separately.

00:53:32 ◼   ► As long as they're physically compatible,

00:53:33 ◼   ► and I think they are,

00:53:34 ◼   ► they have to sell them separately

00:53:36 ◼   ► because the rich people are gonna wanna mix and match

00:53:39 ◼   ► within their own watch, right?

00:53:40 ◼   ► So you're gonna, if you want- - That's true.

00:53:42 ◼   ► - If you want the fancy watch,

00:53:43 ◼   ► they have to sell them like that.

00:53:45 ◼   ► But even regardless,

00:53:47 ◼   ► there are many possible combinations.

00:53:51 ◼   ► You have to provide a store environment

00:53:53 ◼   ► where people can safely,

00:53:55 ◼   ► and without you getting robbed all the time,

00:53:57 ◼   ► try out these combinations.

00:53:59 ◼   ► And that's it.

00:53:59 ◼   ► And like, when someone, as Scott said, basically,

00:54:01 ◼   ► you know, in a snarky way,

00:54:03 ◼   ► when someone is going to drop $20,000 on a watch,

00:54:06 ◼   ► they don't want to wade through a sea of people angry

00:54:08 ◼   ► about their, you know, their iCloud,

00:54:11 ◼   ► losing all their photos of their kids

00:54:12 ◼   ► or whatever is going on, you know, in an Apple store,

00:54:15 ◼   ► to get someone to help them to see,

00:54:17 ◼   ► like, they want it to be a nice, quiet environment,

00:54:19 ◼   ► and they want someone to pay attention to them

00:54:22 ◼   ► and serve their needs,

00:54:23 ◼   ► because they're going to drop a huge amount of money.

00:54:24 ◼   ► That's just what they're used to.

00:54:25 ◼   ► So I don't I don't think you can sell a $20,000 watch in that kind of store unless especially if there are options

00:54:31 ◼   ► There's no options like they decide before they go in they they wade through the massive humanity

00:54:35 ◼   ► They find someone to check them out and maybe like like Casey said maybe they don't even have them in the store

00:54:40 ◼   ► Maybe they mail them to you afterwards or whatever that's feasible. But as soon as it that you have to choose and like try on

00:54:46 ◼   ► Different sizes and see what this watch looks like with this band or whatever current Apple Store is not equipped for that in any way

00:54:53 ◼   ► Well, but is that entirely true? I think you're you're mostly right, but what just occurred to me was the Grand Central store is

00:55:01 ◼   ► Suddenly looking like a much better layout than I initially thought and if you haven't been to the Grand Central store

00:55:06 ◼   ► It's like several different rooms that are connected of course, but it's not like they're these big wide

00:55:13 ◼   ► Hallways if you will between the rooms like one of the rooms. I think was where the beats were was like upstairs

00:55:19 ◼   ► Is that right Marco? You've probably been there

00:55:21 ◼   ► You can have like a department you're thinking of.

00:55:23 ◼   ► Like, I want to go up to the jewelry department.

00:55:26 ◼   ► That works in the Grand Central store,

00:55:28 ◼   ► but we know what most Apple stores look like.

00:55:29 ◼   ► It's a big rectangle in a mall.

00:55:31 ◼   ► - Sure, and that's why I think you're mostly right.

00:55:33 ◼   ► But it just occurred to me that maybe

00:55:34 ◼   ► the Grand Central store almost becomes the flagship store

00:55:38 ◼   ► rather than the Fifth Avenue one,

00:55:39 ◼   ► because it's got these like different sections

00:55:41 ◼   ► in different rooms.

00:55:42 ◼   ► And I think one of you said something

00:55:43 ◼   ► about like personal shopping earlier.

00:55:45 ◼   ► Maybe there's, you know, the velvet rope

00:55:46 ◼   ► before the Apple Watch room in the Grand Central store.

00:55:49 ◼   ► But I agree with you, Jon.

00:55:51 ◼   ► I don't know what we're going to do about the regular Apple stores, which are easily

00:55:55 ◼   ► as much about getting help as they are about buying a product.

00:55:59 ◼   ► That was speaking of redesign Apple stores.

00:56:00 ◼   ► That was one of the theories behind what's in that big giant white box other than a hands-on

00:56:04 ◼   ► area, which guess what?

00:56:05 ◼   ► It turned out to be hands-on area.

00:56:06 ◼   ► Although if we take that as a preview, I don't think we can.

00:56:10 ◼   ► Like it had all the watches and those little sticks like rotating.

00:56:13 ◼   ► I don't think that's the store environment.

00:56:15 ◼   ► There just looks like a press hands-on area, but yeah, we're all expecting some kind of

00:56:19 ◼   ► redesign to the Apple store.

00:56:20 ◼   ► It's due that you know everyone has copied their current design which means it's time for Apple to change

00:56:24 ◼   ► Well, they've had this design for like 10 years at least right when it when are they when they launched the first stores like 2003

00:56:32 ◼   ► 2004 something like that and

00:56:34 ◼   ► We're talking about design like people might think we're thinking like are they gonna do dark colored wood on the tables or a different floor?

00:56:39 ◼   ► But no we're talking about is like you know design is how it works like what where do you go in the store?

00:56:44 ◼   ► To to try out the the iPhones are like now

00:56:48 ◼   ► Now they just have everything on tables because you can just walk up to it, try it out, get

00:56:50 ◼   ► a feel for it, maybe get a little bit of help.

00:56:52 ◼   ► But if it's going to be, "I need to see this watch with this band with this set of Beats

00:56:55 ◼   ► headphones with this," whatever, you need someone behind a counter to help you.

00:57:01 ◼   ► It's a totally different environment.

00:57:03 ◼   ► I don't think you can do that freeform.

00:57:04 ◼   ► I don't think you can have people sort of self just wandering around the store, entertaining

00:57:08 ◼   ► themselves and then if they need help, they'll come and get you or they'll ask you if you're

00:57:12 ◼   ► finding everything or whatever.

00:57:13 ◼   ► You can't have someone rummaging through like a bin of gold Apple watches and trying the

00:57:18 ◼   ► different bands and everything like I just don't know how it's going to work.

00:57:21 ◼   ► I think maybe the Apple edition watches won't even be available in regular Apple

00:57:26 ◼   ► stores. You have to go to the fancy Apple stores and no one will go to the fancy

00:57:29 ◼   ► Apple store except for rich people because they'll only sell, you know, I wish

00:57:33 ◼   ► this is not actually happening, but it wouldn't be great if they only sold like

00:57:35 ◼   ► Mac Pros. I'm sorry, the only Mac we have here is the Mac Pro. I know nobody needs

00:57:40 ◼   ► this and I know you wouldn't even want it, but.

00:57:41 ◼   ► This is this is the problem I see like with with getting into a luxury store and

00:57:46 ◼   ► high-end watches that cost $10,000 for a gold one.

00:57:50 ◼   ► This isn't Apple.

00:57:53 ◼   ► Like this doesn't fit the culture of the company,

00:57:56 ◼   ► the people, the stores, the customers.

00:57:59 ◼   ► It just doesn't fit.

00:58:01 ◼   ► - But it does though.

00:58:02 ◼   ► It fits because they're going after the watch market

00:58:06 ◼   ► from 300 bucks and up.

00:58:08 ◼   ► And just like they went for the PC market

00:58:10 ◼   ► from $900 and up.

00:58:13 ◼   ► And it just so happens the end up in both cases

00:58:15 ◼   ► ends in five figures.

00:58:17 ◼   ► - What I said earlier about some people

00:58:18 ◼   ► might only wear solid gold or whatever,

00:58:20 ◼   ► like that's one thing.

00:58:21 ◼   ► I think if we would have predicted

00:58:24 ◼   ► how Apple would approach this,

00:58:25 ◼   ► the most Apple-like way to approach this

00:58:27 ◼   ► would be to make one model that was so good on its merits

00:58:31 ◼   ► that people would forget about wearing solid gold watches

00:58:35 ◼   ► and be willing to wear this one because it's so good,

00:58:39 ◼   ► and even though it's not made of solid gold.

00:58:42 ◼   ► And that's not what Apple is doing here.

00:58:44 ◼   ► And I think it's worth questioning why.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And I've seen a few people that seem a little bit alarmed,

00:58:51 ◼   ► possibly why Apple is going this way.

00:58:54 ◼   ► And I think there is cause for concern,

00:58:57 ◼   ► because what I said earlier,

00:58:59 ◼   ► where if they think they can only get people

00:59:02 ◼   ► to wear a watch if it's made of these premium materials

00:59:05 ◼   ► and costs a lot of money, like certain people,

00:59:07 ◼   ► if that's the case, okay.

00:59:09 ◼   ► And if that's why they're doing it, that's interesting.

00:59:12 ◼   ► But if Apple's doing it because they just want to be

00:59:17 ◼   ► in the business of selling $10,000 watches,

00:59:19 ◼   ► that's kind of weird from Apple.

00:59:22 ◼   ► Like if you think about, and granted,

00:59:24 ◼   ► I know the world is way bigger than us.

00:59:25 ◼   ► I'm very much aware of this,

00:59:27 ◼   ► and I know that we do not represent the world at large.

00:59:31 ◼   ► But can you imagine anybody we know,

00:59:34 ◼   ► let's say we go out, let's say we're at a conference

00:59:37 ◼   ► or something, a geek conference, or even just at work,

00:59:41 ◼   ► you're at work somewhere, you know,

00:59:42 ◼   ► you're programmers at work with other programmers

00:59:44 ◼   ► and people in offices.

00:59:46 ◼   ► Like, do you think when this comes out,

00:59:49 ◼   ► do you think if you're at a bar at WWDC,

00:59:53 ◼   ► and if you look around, will anybody who,

00:59:57 ◼   ► in the entire conference, will any attendee

00:59:59 ◼   ► of that conference be wearing a gold Apple Watch?

01:00:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, anybody who had a big exit from their startup will.

01:00:04 ◼   ► - Will they?

01:00:05 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:00:06 ◼   ► I think the startup people are still wearing

01:00:08 ◼   ► jeans and t-shirts.

01:00:09 ◼   ► I don't see that happening.

01:00:10 ◼   ► - I know, but they won't have a gold one,

01:00:12 ◼   ► 'cause gold is tacky,

01:00:13 ◼   ► but they'll have the stainless one for sure.

01:00:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe, but still, see this is the problem.

01:00:18 ◼   ► In this business, and in this culture,

01:00:21 ◼   ► and in much of Apple's culture,

01:00:23 ◼   ► what is in fashion and what is socially acceptable

01:00:26 ◼   ► is to be relatively understated for the most part,

01:00:28 ◼   ► and to not be super ostentatious

01:00:32 ◼   ► with big gold jewelry and stuff.

01:00:34 ◼   ► That's not cool.

01:00:36 ◼   ► I would feel like a (thud)

01:00:39 ◼   ► toll wearing a gold Apple watch.

01:00:41 ◼   ► - Oh, you'd get over it.

01:00:43 ◼   ► - I just can't imagine anybody we know,

01:00:46 ◼   ► like any of our friends,

01:00:48 ◼   ► being willing to wear a gold Apple watch in public,

01:00:51 ◼   ► 'cause you'd be surrounded by a whole bunch of people

01:00:53 ◼   ► who would all recognize it

01:00:56 ◼   ► and know that you paid 10 grand for that.

01:00:58 ◼   ► - All right, well, hold on.

01:01:01 ◼   ► I could not possibly disagree more

01:01:03 ◼   ► with like every freaking thing you just said.

01:01:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:06 ◼   ► So let's start with it would be remiss of me not to point out that you're saying a gold watch is

01:01:11 ◼   ► Ridiculous and silly and a waste of money yet your car was to be frank not cheap

01:01:17 ◼   ► And I would argue that if you really think about the purpose of your car especially in America

01:01:24 ◼   ► It makes no damn sense. You can't go more than 70 anywhere sure you can get to 70 very quickly

01:01:30 ◼   ► But there's no purpose in it and really I don't as much as I love your car

01:01:35 ◼   ► It's a silly waste of money for America. I completely agree. So let's start there

01:01:40 ◼   ► the other thing is I think you're taking to myopic of you of what you expect of

01:01:45 ◼   ► Apple and our friends because our friends I

01:01:48 ◼   ► Agree, none of us would wear solid gold watches. It would be silly. It would be ridiculous and it would be very tasteless but

01:01:56 ◼   ► You were saying earlier that you thought that maybe the bands would kind of be you get a band with the watch and that's that

01:02:03 ◼   ► especially with the cheap one and I'm looking at the picture of the Apple watch sport on the web on Apple's website and it's

01:02:09 ◼   ► very clear that the little disengage button for lack of a better word to

01:02:13 ◼   ► Switch out the bands is there and there's this like peachy pinky

01:02:17 ◼   ► salmony colored band on this particular picture and

01:02:20 ◼   ► It's zoomed way into the bottom of the watch and those buttons are there so you can remove the bands and all I keep thinking

01:02:26 ◼   ► about is

01:02:28 ◼   ► Apple seems to be going more and more towards

01:02:31 ◼   ► making everything a little more personal. You see evidence of this and the fact that there's now

01:02:36 ◼   ► not just one iPhone that is black and you will like it. There's not only three colors,

01:02:42 ◼   ► but there's two sizes and that's eliminating the 5s and the 5c.

01:02:46 ◼   ► There's a commercial that came out not long ago where these beautiful Macs were tainted or enhanced depending on how you look at it

01:02:55 ◼   ► with all of these stickers. And I think when it comes to the watch, they would be out of their day of mind

01:03:01 ◼   ► minds not to offer a hundred different bands because you can personalize and make it match

01:03:08 ◼   ► your outfit if you're into that or you can make it the opposite of your outfit if you want to

01:03:12 ◼   ► call attention to it in the same way that sometimes people might sport more than one case. I happen to

01:03:19 ◼   ► use a case for my phone on my 5s I have the apple leather case but even I have an additional case

01:03:24 ◼   ► for which is a battery case kind of like a mophie but an off-brand for when I'm out at like a

01:03:29 ◼   ► conference or something like that.

01:03:31 ◼   ► So I am like the least fashion conscious person in the entire world and yet I have more than

01:03:35 ◼   ► one case for my iPhone.

01:03:37 ◼   ► Although I guess to be fair it's more about utility than it is fashion.

01:03:40 ◼   ► But I guess what I'm saying is all of our views, and I'm including myself in this, are

01:03:47 ◼   ► centered around our friends would never be into a $30,000 solid gold watch.

01:03:53 ◼   ► But celebrities could be, Wall Street could be, there's so many people that could be reached

01:03:59 ◼   ► by this. And just because we don't think it makes sense and it doesn't really add up in our heads,

01:04:05 ◼   ► doesn't mean that it won't add up for anyone else in the world. And that's also a good point,

01:04:09 ◼   ► that we're taking a very myopic American view of this. And from what I've gathered from Ben Thompson

01:04:14 ◼   ► and others, that Asia takes a very different view of this. And a lot of Asia, or so it appears,

01:04:21 ◼   ► is about expressing your wealth as extravagantly as you possibly can.

01:04:25 ◼   ► >> BRIAN KARDELL Oh, yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't mean to say that this is

01:04:29 ◼   ► everybody, but that this is such a big part of Apple culture that this seems to be working

01:04:36 ◼   ► against and conflicting with. >> MATT FESTA But the Apple culture,

01:04:39 ◼   ► previously, had been based on technology. They're getting into fashion with this,

01:04:42 ◼   ► and when you get into fashion, everything that comes with it is, you know, like, functionally,

01:04:47 ◼   ► all the watches, like, the more expensive ones, it's not like they get, like, better battery life

01:04:53 ◼   ► or anything like that, like they're functionally the same. And so in that respect everyone,

01:04:58 ◼   ► it's like the Mac, hey, if you can afford the lowest price, well, now that all the non-retina

01:05:04 ◼   ► is gone, anyway, the lowest price of retina MacBook Pro, that is a reasonable price that

01:05:09 ◼   ► someone who has a good job could get, they could buy that. And it works really well,

01:05:15 ◼   ► and it's a very similar experience to spending 10 grand on a Mac Pro because really you're not

01:05:19 ◼   ► you're not gonna use the extra power

01:05:21 ◼   ► that the Mac Pro provides.

01:05:22 ◼   ► So if you can afford the cheapest watch,

01:05:26 ◼   ► Apple Watch, you will have the same experience

01:05:28 ◼   ► as someone who bought the more expensive one.

01:05:30 ◼   ► So it's not like they're saying we are no longer egalitarian.

01:05:33 ◼   ► We don't believe that our technology

01:05:35 ◼   ► should be accessible to everybody.

01:05:37 ◼   ► It's like I said before, they want the watch market

01:05:39 ◼   ► from a couple hundred bucks and up,

01:05:41 ◼   ► and it just so happens the and up goes up really high.

01:05:43 ◼   ► And the fashion market, the and up goes really high

01:05:46 ◼   ► without an additional utility.

01:05:49 ◼   ► At least in the Mac Pro, you can argue

01:05:50 ◼   ► that there's some utility that you're not tapping into.

01:05:52 ◼   ► In the fashion market, there is no extra utility

01:05:54 ◼   ► for a Gucci bag or some expensive pair of shoes.

01:05:57 ◼   ► In fact, there's often less utility,

01:05:59 ◼   ► 'cause that's the way fashion works, right?

01:06:01 ◼   ► If Apple wants to be in the fashion market,

01:06:04 ◼   ► and I think this, again, I think this is a good plan,

01:06:06 ◼   ► because long-term, as the price of compute

01:06:09 ◼   ► goes down and down, that's what you're selling,

01:06:13 ◼   ► is a fashion device.

01:06:14 ◼   ► You're selling, yes, a solution to make your life better,

01:06:16 ◼   ► but especially for things that you wear

01:06:18 ◼   ► or attach to your body,

01:06:19 ◼   ► the fashion market is just different.

01:06:20 ◼   ► And Apple entering into that market,

01:06:22 ◼   ► it's not being on Apple-like if Apple thinks

01:06:25 ◼   ► that they want to be also to sell fashion items.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Because once Apple says,

01:06:31 ◼   ► "We want to be in the fashion business,"

01:06:33 ◼   ► then them behaving as everyone else

01:06:35 ◼   ► in the fashion industry does is still Apple-like

01:06:37 ◼   ► because Apple is entering into that market.

01:06:39 ◼   ► It's like, I don't think it's out of character.

01:06:41 ◼   ► I think it's just, it would be wrong for Apple

01:06:43 ◼   ► to try to sell fashion devices like they are Macs

01:06:47 ◼   ► or even iPhones, right?

01:06:48 ◼   ► Because I mean, iPhones are kind of, you know,

01:06:50 ◼   ► do you wear an iPhone?

01:06:51 ◼   ► No, but you do keep it in your pocket.

01:06:52 ◼   ► It's more personal than the Mac.

01:06:54 ◼   ► It's like a continuum.

01:06:55 ◼   ► But once you're strapping things onto you,

01:06:56 ◼   ► it gets, or even beats headphones

01:06:58 ◼   ► once you're putting them on your head,

01:06:59 ◼   ► that becomes very, very different.

01:07:01 ◼   ► And so I think they have to change their strategy

01:07:03 ◼   ► of how they sell into that market.

01:07:05 ◼   ► And again, I don't think, like,

01:07:07 ◼   ► we're getting all upset about the high-end watches

01:07:08 ◼   ► and everything.

01:07:09 ◼   ► They're mostly gonna sell the cheap ones.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Like that's all Apple cares about for their bottom line.

01:07:13 ◼   ► You know, but if you're going to be in that market and not sell the high-end ones

01:07:17 ◼   ► maybe it like it makes you lesser like

01:07:20 ◼   ► The respected fashion brands are not always the ones that only sell super expensive stuff

01:07:26 ◼   ► I bet even Rolex has affordable models or reasonable models for watches watches are weird because

01:07:31 ◼   ► The utility of them is basically zero at this point

01:07:34 ◼   ► So it's entirely about you know

01:07:36 ◼   ► Fashion and all that other stuff except for maybe I guess like sport watches for running and being waterproof and stuff like that

01:07:41 ◼   ► But Apple's not in that market either. I think if we see them enter another fashion category

01:07:46 ◼   ► That has more of a utility value. I don't know Apple shoes. I can't that I don't think Nike would like that very much

01:07:52 ◼   ► We'll see how they behave in that respect. I guess Beats is another thing when we'll see it

01:07:57 ◼   ► How do they deal with the Beats headphones because the utility is you know, it's kind of there and those things but

01:08:04 ◼   ► But they're you know, they're popular because they're fashion accessories. So

01:08:08 ◼   ► I I don't think this is a sign of doom and gloom

01:08:13 ◼   ► in fact

01:08:13 ◼   ► I think Apple is out ahead of the other technology companies in realizing that

01:08:17 ◼   ► Long-term, I mean they've been ahead out for years like selling things based on the amount of RAM and the CPU speed was was no

01:08:24 ◼   ► Good, so Apple stopped doing that way before everybody else and now they're there

01:08:28 ◼   ► I think ahead of the other people and saying we're going to sell goods where the technology

01:08:31 ◼   ► Isn't practically isn't even a factor in the price the exact same CPU the exact same screen the exact same storage

01:08:38 ◼   ► and a price range from hundreds to tens of thousands.

01:08:42 ◼   ► That and the other technology companies

01:08:44 ◼   ► would be like, what the hell is Apple doing?

01:08:45 ◼   ► But other fashion companies are like, oh, we do that.

01:08:47 ◼   ► We sell leather shoes, price range from a couple hundred

01:08:50 ◼   ► bucks to a thousand bucks,

01:08:51 ◼   ► and it's all made of the same leather.

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01:11:23 ◼   ► - All right, so we're not quite done with the Apple Watch.

01:11:25 ◼   ► - We're never gonna be done with the Apple Watch.

01:11:26 ◼   ► - No, we're not.

01:11:27 ◼   ► So we got-- - I love that we're probably

01:11:29 ◼   ► not even gonna get to iOS 8 at all.

01:11:32 ◼   ► I don't think we will and I'm not kidding.

01:11:34 ◼   ► This is still a follow up just to be clear.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Yes.

01:11:37 ◼   ► We learned a little more about the offline capacity or not capacity, features of the

01:11:43 ◼   ► Apple Watch.

01:11:45 ◼   ► And apparently an Apple rep said that the watch's offline abilities include Apple

01:11:50 ◼   ► Pay, music via Bluetooth and via storage within the watch itself, activity tracking and some

01:11:57 ◼   ► apps, which makes it more useful than I think most of us expected, actually.

01:12:02 ◼   ► The Apple Pay one, as I mentioned this in the last show, is mysterious because there's

01:12:06 ◼   ► no Touch ID on the thing.

01:12:07 ◼   ► So you're going to be able to Apple Pay with it, but Touch ID won't be involved at all,

01:12:12 ◼   ► which gets back to the earlier point about getting the card present rate if you just

01:12:15 ◼   ► use NFC.

01:12:16 ◼   ► So, yeah, Touch ID not being a factor there reinforces that.

01:12:22 ◼   ► Music, Bluetooth, yeah, fine.

01:12:25 ◼   ► Some apps?

01:12:27 ◼   ► That gets confusing to me because what wouldn't, you know, I guess.

01:12:32 ◼   ► This is the last we were discussing last time, like, is it a bunch of binaries that you ship

01:12:36 ◼   ► over to the watch that you run on the watch using the watch's CPU?

01:12:40 ◼   ► Is it like CarPlay where the phone is projecting a UI into someplace else?

01:12:43 ◼   ► I seriously doubt that.

01:12:44 ◼   ► But then why would it only be some apps?

01:12:46 ◼   ► Why couldn't you run all the apps?

01:12:47 ◼   ► Or are there some applications that are going to communicate over ad hoc Wi-Fi to your phone?

01:12:51 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:12:52 ◼   ► I don't even know if Apple knows the answer to all these questions yet.

01:12:54 ◼   ► But but yeah, the offline capabilities of the watch,

01:12:58 ◼   ► I would imagine that anything you see people doing in an Apple ad

01:13:02 ◼   ► don't assume they always have their phone in their pocket when they do it.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Like they're out for a run or whatever doing like checking.

01:13:10 ◼   ► I guess it can count your steps like it can't do GPS,

01:13:13 ◼   ► but it can do something offline. I don't know.

01:13:15 ◼   ► This is they're limited by physics here.

01:13:19 ◼   ► But I think their goal, five, 10 years from now,

01:13:24 ◼   ► is to make the Apple Watch be able to do everything

01:13:27 ◼   ► that an iPhone can do.

01:13:28 ◼   ► Obviously, that's a long ways off,

01:13:29 ◼   ► but that's where they're headed.

01:13:31 ◼   ► The fact that it's a companion device now just always

01:13:33 ◼   ► reminds me of how iOS devices-- before they were iOS devices--

01:13:37 ◼   ► were companion devices to your Mac and now aren't anymore.

01:13:41 ◼   ► Real time follow up from friend of the show Ben Thompson.

01:13:43 ◼   ► He said, if the watch loses contact with your skin, which

01:13:47 ◼   ► which you would know by way of the sensors

01:13:49 ◼   ► on the bottom of the watch,

01:13:50 ◼   ► you have to reenter the PIN code.

01:13:52 ◼   ► I'm not sure what PIN code that is.

01:13:53 ◼   ► I'm assuming there's either the shared PIN code

01:13:55 ◼   ► with your phone or maybe a watch-specific PIN code,

01:13:58 ◼   ► but nevertheless, you have to identify yourself as yourself

01:14:02 ◼   ► if it loses contact with your skin.

01:14:04 ◼   ► - See, I kind of disagree with Jon,

01:14:06 ◼   ► your assumption that the watch will become

01:14:10 ◼   ► basically the new digital hub.

01:14:12 ◼   ► - No, no, I'm not saying the new digital hub.

01:14:13 ◼   ► I'm saying the fact that it's tethered to the iPhone now

01:14:15 ◼   ► purely a limitation of technology and that eventually if it had the storage capacity,

01:14:22 ◼   ► battery power and everything else, like it could be, you know, if it could have its own

01:14:25 ◼   ► GPS, its own Wi-Fi, its own cell radio, everything, if you could take all the technology and the

01:14:30 ◼   ► iPhone and put it there, they totally would, they just can't at this point.

01:14:33 ◼   ► I'm not, you know, so I'm sure this is one of your like, well on an infinite timescale

01:14:37 ◼   ► arguments.

01:14:38 ◼   ► It's not infinite, but like, you know, you can imagine it, like, it's, that's not outside

01:14:41 ◼   ► realm of possibility. Like if you look at, you can do it with a big ugly watch right now, right?

01:14:47 ◼   ► I see this, I mean, I've said so many times before, like, it is unwise to bet against or

01:14:52 ◼   ► compete with the smartphone. The smartphone almost always wins. The smartphone is amazing and awesome

01:14:59 ◼   ► and extremely powerful and disruptive to everything and it is unwise to bet against the

01:15:05 ◼   ► smartphone. The watch as a smartphone accessory makes a lot of sense. As its

01:15:12 ◼   ► own device or as an eventual replacement to the smartphone, I see that I have a

01:15:18 ◼   ► hard time with that because... It's not gonna replace it. I'm just saying it

01:15:20 ◼   ► will be independent of like you'll be able to do more. You won't need to always

01:15:23 ◼   ► carry your phone around when you want to use your watch to do something the watch

01:15:26 ◼   ► can do. Obviously there's only so many things you could do on a screen the size

01:15:29 ◼   ► of a postage stamp, right? The screen is not going to be the new 5.5 inch iWatch,

01:15:34 ◼   ► Right, it's always going to be a small little thing

01:15:36 ◼   ► But the thing is there are things you can't do on the Apple watch now

01:15:39 ◼   ► I think I said I watch nine times. Sorry

01:15:41 ◼   ► There's things you can't do on the Apple watch now

01:15:43 ◼   ► That you can't do not because it would be a bad idea to do them on a watch

01:15:47 ◼   ► But simply because it needs to have the iPhone next to it for this thing

01:15:50 ◼   ► Oh, you don't have any kit like connection to the internet for example

01:15:53 ◼   ► Well, the I watch doesn't have one so you want to do anything has anything to do with the internet

01:15:57 ◼   ► Like just receive a text message if you're out for a run look up at your watch text message

01:16:01 ◼   ► says, "Oh, try to be home in five minutes

01:16:02 ◼   ► "because you have to pick up the kids or whatever."

01:16:04 ◼   ► You can't see that unless you also have your iPhone with you.

01:16:06 ◼   ► That's a technical limitation

01:16:08 ◼   ► that if Apple could get rid of right now, they would,

01:16:11 ◼   ► and you're maybe five, eight years out

01:16:13 ◼   ► from them being able to do that.

01:16:15 ◼   ► - Okay, yeah, I'll give you that.

01:16:16 ◼   ► That is fair.

01:16:18 ◼   ► And I realize, Casey, I mean, really,

01:16:20 ◼   ► the Apple Watch, it seems like Fast Text

01:16:24 ◼   ► is the killer app for this thing.

01:16:26 ◼   ► I assume you're not gonna wait as long

01:16:27 ◼   ► as you have with your iOS 7 update

01:16:29 ◼   ► to get your iWatch, sorry, your Apple Watch.

01:16:32 ◼   ► See, I did it now, you finally caught me.

01:16:33 ◼   ► - He'll have to, 'cause we're assuming

01:16:35 ◼   ► that's the only way you're gonna be able

01:16:38 ◼   ► to distribute Apple Watch apps is embedded inside.

01:16:41 ◼   ► - That's true.

01:16:42 ◼   ► - And I also have to update fast text merely

01:16:44 ◼   ► as a Trojan horse tent, it's a vehicle

01:16:46 ◼   ► to distribute the Watch Kids stuff.

01:16:49 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, yes.

01:16:51 ◼   ► It will happen eventually.

01:16:52 ◼   ► Actually, I just told someone on Twitter,

01:16:54 ◼   ► I don't remember who it was, that at this point

01:16:56 ◼   ► I'm thinking in my copious spare time,

01:16:58 ◼   ► as we're planning for a child, and then we'll

01:17:00 ◼   ► soon have said child, maybe I'll just write the darn thing over

01:17:04 ◼   ► in Swift.

01:17:05 ◼   ► And I was thinking--

01:17:05 ◼   ► Well, Chase and LKC, we just want you to release it.

01:17:08 ◼   ► You just set it back another year.

01:17:10 ◼   ► You can fix one auto layout bug.

01:17:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

01:17:13 ◼   ► Actually, there's also an animation bug,

01:17:14 ◼   ► which I realized, but it's minor.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Anyways, I will get to it one day, maybe as I'm up feeding

01:17:21 ◼   ► Sprout at 2 in the morning, and then I'm

01:17:23 ◼   ► unable to go back to sleep.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Yeah, you'll be totally in the mood

01:17:26 ◼   ► to do iOS development at that point.

01:17:29 ◼   ► - You'll have like, you know, no sleep for three days

01:17:32 ◼   ► straight and like, you know what, I think what would be

01:17:34 ◼   ► a good use of my time right now is rewriting my app

01:17:38 ◼   ► in a new language.

01:17:39 ◼   ► - Screaming babies are really conducive to that kind

01:17:42 ◼   ► of concentration flow you need to get into

01:17:44 ◼   ► to do good programming.

01:17:45 ◼   ► - Well, look at it this way, the bar is so low

01:17:47 ◼   ► that even if it's rewritten kind of in a crummy way,

01:17:50 ◼   ► it won't look that different.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Oh, well.

01:17:53 ◼   ► So going back to the watch as I try to steer away

01:17:56 ◼   ► from being embarrassed and miserable.

01:17:59 ◼   ► One thing that was pointed out to us,

01:18:00 ◼   ► and we have in the show notes by Matthias,

01:18:03 ◼   ► but several people had said this,

01:18:05 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch would actually be a really great way

01:18:10 ◼   ► to send text messages or really picture messages

01:18:13 ◼   ► in languages like Chinese,

01:18:14 ◼   ► where single characters or images,

01:18:19 ◼   ► forgive me, I don't know the terminology,

01:18:21 ◼   ► can represent kind of complex thoughts.

01:18:24 ◼   ► And so this person said most simple messages can be transmitted in four or so characters.

01:18:28 ◼   ► And, you know, depending on how this is all implemented, that could be easier than getting a phone out,

01:18:35 ◼   ► unlocking it and either tapping away or doing that crazy thing that I know you can do in Japanese,

01:18:40 ◼   ► where you like draw simplified versions of the characters and it figures out what you need.

01:18:44 ◼   ► And that's a really clever point that I certainly didn't think about because I'm used to using a Germanic language or whatever,

01:18:51 ◼   ► where we need a whole bunch of letters to make one word,

01:18:55 ◼   ► let alone many words to make one thought.

01:18:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, one of you last week brought up the whole idea

01:18:59 ◼   ► of bringing back graffiti,

01:19:00 ◼   ► which is the simplified writing technique to draw

01:19:03 ◼   ► regular English alphabet.

01:19:07 ◼   ► - Roman.

01:19:07 ◼   ► - Yes, that's the letter I was looking for.

01:19:09 ◼   ► Without typing all the strokes,

01:19:11 ◼   ► so an A is just an upside down V,

01:19:13 ◼   ► you don't have to draw the cross stroke.

01:19:15 ◼   ► - Every letter is one stroke.

01:19:16 ◼   ► - Right, and that would obviously still be super painful

01:19:19 ◼   ► for us to do, we did that already with the palm things,

01:19:21 ◼   ► but with languages like Chinese,

01:19:24 ◼   ► that have pictogram type characters,

01:19:27 ◼   ► they have to do that now a lot of the time

01:19:29 ◼   ► because if you have thousands and thousands of characters

01:19:31 ◼   ► to choose from, no keyboard can present them to you

01:19:34 ◼   ► in a reasonable way anyways.

01:19:35 ◼   ► You have to go to the root character

01:19:37 ◼   ► and then it breaks up sub-menus and so on and so forth.

01:19:39 ◼   ► And it would actually be more efficient

01:19:40 ◼   ► to be able to draw little scribbles

01:19:42 ◼   ► to do stuff like that.

01:19:43 ◼   ► Now I'm not sure how fun it would be

01:19:45 ◼   ► to draw those scribbles with your finger

01:19:47 ◼   ► on a watch size screen, but someone will try it

01:19:51 ◼   ► And if it works, I'm sure it will become very popular.

01:19:53 ◼   ► I think Casey's fast text idea or Apple's own idea

01:19:56 ◼   ► of like you receive a text message

01:19:58 ◼   ► from somebody who has some sort of keyboard,

01:20:00 ◼   ► whether it's an iPhone or a computer or whatever,

01:20:03 ◼   ► and that the watch tries to interpret what was said

01:20:06 ◼   ► to give you like three options to reply with,

01:20:08 ◼   ► that type of, I just wanna push a button

01:20:11 ◼   ► to confirm or cancel or whatever,

01:20:14 ◼   ► or even just recording an audio message.

01:20:16 ◼   ► Almost any other option is preferable

01:20:17 ◼   ► to scratching anything out on that screen in that phone,

01:20:20 ◼   ► because the audio ones,

01:20:22 ◼   ► even a little animated emoji or something,

01:20:26 ◼   ► like a yes/no answer,

01:20:28 ◼   ► I would not want to draw little pictures.

01:20:30 ◼   ► If you're on the go,

01:20:32 ◼   ► once you start drawing little pictures,

01:20:33 ◼   ► you're gonna have to stop walking probably.

01:20:35 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't think you can draw anything sensible

01:20:37 ◼   ► while you're walking.

01:20:37 ◼   ► Or if you are doing it,

01:20:39 ◼   ► you're gonna walk into a lamp post or something.

01:20:41 ◼   ► But while you're walking,

01:20:42 ◼   ► you can hold the thing up to your mouth

01:20:43 ◼   ► and send a little audio thing, go,

01:20:45 ◼   ► "Yeah, I'll be there in a second, bloop,"

01:20:47 ◼   ► and then it goes out.

01:20:48 ◼   ► That is much more feasible.

01:20:49 ◼   ► So like I said last week, Apple demonstrated what it thought

01:20:53 ◼   ► were like a whole bunch of different ways

01:20:55 ◼   ► that you could communicate from this tiny little screen

01:20:58 ◼   ► without having to type anything.

01:20:59 ◼   ► And I think they're just hoping that one or two of those

01:21:02 ◼   ► stick or work out or end up not being terrible.

01:21:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I hear you.

01:21:07 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm curious to see how it all works.

01:21:09 ◼   ► And other things that people pointed out to us,

01:21:11 ◼   ► and we saw this a lot, was there was no apparent

01:21:16 ◼   ► battery indicator ever shown on the watch at any point that I'm aware of.

01:21:21 ◼   ► And that could mean any number of things. What I wonder is,

01:21:26 ◼   ► is will it be that since the watch to some degree is largely about surfacing notifications,

01:21:34 ◼   ► would it perhaps be that you would just get a notification when your battery is low,

01:21:40 ◼   ► not unlike the iPhone, but perhaps a little less annoying. And it would just say, "Hey,

01:21:45 ◼   ► I'm kind of running low on juice you might want to plug me in soon or alternatively

01:21:49 ◼   ► If you have a Bluetooth headset that will report battery status over Bluetooth

01:21:54 ◼   ► Well, I'm just saying that you know you could have the same kind of battery indicator for the Bluetooth headset on the status bar on

01:22:01 ◼   ► The iPhone that but instead of being for Bluetooth headset of course it's for the watch

01:22:06 ◼   ► Well your watch will report to you that all five devices that are within this little Bluetooth cloud are all low on battery power

01:22:13 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just like Marco with not putting the indicator badges on instapaper and stuff like that like hey

01:22:18 ◼   ► Did you see the t-cheese review of the new instapaper?

01:22:21 ◼   ► Yeah

01:22:21 ◼   ► He mentioned he basically mentioned that

01:22:23 ◼   ► About like that's what brought him back to instapaper after trying other ones was he liked

01:22:28 ◼   ► He overall liked it better. And one of the reasons he liked it was the lack of those badges

01:22:32 ◼   ► Yeah, that is a that is a stress relief thing not having the badges not even having the option to add them

01:22:38 ◼   ► I know a lot of people who obsessively look at the battery on their phone and

01:22:42 ◼   ► In some ways, like, the phone is important enough that I think you have to show the battery so people can manage it,

01:22:48 ◼   ► but the watch as an ancillary device, like, what are you gonna do about it? A phone,

01:22:53 ◼   ► it's like, you can plug it into a charger, or when you're sitting at your desk or whatever, the watch, to charge it,

01:22:58 ◼   ► you have to take it off. There is no, like, you have to take it off.

01:23:01 ◼   ► So it's like, why bother even telling you? There's nothing you can do to manage the battery on this thing.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Don't worry about it. Don't look at it. Obviously when the battery gets low,

01:23:08 ◼   ► I'm sure something will appear on the screen to say, "Hey, you're almost out of juice."

01:23:11 ◼   ► It's not like the thing's just gonna turn off one, you know, and you're gonna turn up to look at it

01:23:15 ◼   ► It'll be black and be like, oh, I guess I ran out of battery

01:23:17 ◼   ► Like there will be something towards the end, but the screen is super small. Like there's no status bar

01:23:22 ◼   ► Do they have to show like what on iOS devices on the status bar? We have a clock

01:23:26 ◼   ► Well, I think the watch has that covered sort of like they're not it's not gonna be a status bar on these apps showing you

01:23:30 ◼   ► Battery power Wi-Fi signal strength, you know Bluetooth on or off

01:23:34 ◼   ► Rotation lock on or off do not disturb on like all that information

01:23:39 ◼   ► There's just not enough room in that watch to show they just want that out of your face

01:23:42 ◼   ► They don't want you staring at they don't want you obsessing over

01:23:44 ◼   ► What the watch is doing in a particular moment?

01:23:47 ◼   ► So I think the combination of all those factors means don't expect to see a bunch of status stuff having to do with how the watch

01:23:53 ◼   ► Is doing because that's not?

01:23:55 ◼   ► That's not you know I

01:23:58 ◼   ► Don't think even regular traditional watches have ever had battery gated

01:24:02 ◼   ► Like you're not supposed to monitor your watch to see how it's doing and I I'm assuming they're thinking since it's so non-critical

01:24:09 ◼   ► Mmm battery dies like well regular watches didn't need battery indicators because they lasted months or years or forever and if

01:24:16 ◼   ► The battery died it would be very obvious the watch would stop moving or working

01:24:20 ◼   ► It'll be obvious on this too the screen won't turn on

01:24:23 ◼   ► I'm sure there'll be some kind of little buzz or notification or whatever thing when the battery is going down and we'll have a little

01:24:30 ◼   ► Warning or something, but you don't need to be monitoring it all that you don't need to be looking at it going

01:24:33 ◼   ► Oh, I'm not gonna check the time that often for the next right. It's like what kind of control

01:24:38 ◼   ► do you even have? It's not like you're choosing to, I mean I guess maybe you go

01:24:41 ◼   ► into a not launch apps or something but it's not like a phone where you can

01:24:46 ◼   ► modify your behavior like oh I'm not gonna watch that YouTube video now

01:24:48 ◼   ► because I'm running low on battery. No I'm guessing it's very simple I'm guessing

01:24:52 ◼   ► like it doesn't even tell you anything until the battery is low and then it

01:24:55 ◼   ► tells you that. I think you're right however I take a little bit of issue

01:24:59 ◼   ► with saying you don't need to manage the watch's status because what if you

01:25:03 ◼   ► really want to go for a run after work but you've been using the watch a lot

01:25:07 ◼   ► And now you're nervous as to whether or not it will last the duration of your run

01:25:11 ◼   ► If you're like me your runs last like 15 minutes, so it's no big deal

01:25:14 ◼   ► But but you know what I'm driving at but what do you like using your watch a lot?

01:25:19 ◼   ► I always see the watch as something that like things will come in on the wall

01:25:22 ◼   ► Like you're not gonna what are you doing on the watch unless it's playing games?

01:25:25 ◼   ► Which I don't know how that is even gonna work out

01:25:27 ◼   ► Like are you initiating activities from the watch that you're choosing not to initiate them from that anymore?

01:25:32 ◼   ► Absolutely. There were like 60 little bubbles on the watch home screen during the demo

01:25:37 ◼   ► There's got to be that many bubbles for a reason and also I should point out that my

01:25:42 ◼   ► mechanical

01:25:44 ◼   ► traditional citizen watch

01:25:46 ◼   ► Actually does have a low battery indicator and what it is is because it's one of the eco drive watches

01:25:52 ◼   ► Which I think Gruber might have mentioned in his

01:25:54 ◼   ► watch review if

01:25:56 ◼   ► If you don't get it within light in over the course of like two or three months or something absurd like that

01:26:01 ◼   ► When you look at the watch instead of ticking every single second, it'll tick in like two or three second increments

01:26:08 ◼   ► So it'll go from 10 seconds to 12 seconds to 14 etc

01:26:11 ◼   ► and that's the indicator to you that that thing's running out of juice and I

01:26:15 ◼   ► Don't know what happens if it completely runs out of gas so to speak

01:26:20 ◼   ► It may be that you have to take it in for service or it may be as simple as you just got to put some

01:26:25 ◼   ► Light on it, but even my traditional mechanical watch actually has a battery indicator to some degree

01:26:30 ◼   ► Like that's what we're talking about a thing that basically says low battery. It's not like a little bar graph like oh, I'm at 73%

01:26:36 ◼   ► Oh now. I'm down to 62% like that type of

01:26:39 ◼   ► micromanagement of the battery it's just yeah, we all hope that will go away eventually in in you know phones as well

01:26:47 ◼   ► But you know we're not holding your breath for that like watch their goal

01:26:50 ◼   ► And we'll see how well they achieve this is put it on in the morning

01:26:53 ◼   ► You take it off at night for a reasonable day worth of average usage

01:26:56 ◼   ► you should be fine. If they don't meet that goal, the lack of anything except for a low battery indicator

01:27:02 ◼   ► maybe you'll put a damper on things like I'm sure there'll be some screen you can go to as Casey pointed out and all those

01:27:08 ◼   ► little bubbles on the screen one of them is gonna be settings and it's gonna tell you about your battery usage and you know do

01:27:12 ◼   ► all the which applications are using a lot of battery and bubble like I'm sure they'll bring over all that iOS 8 style stuff it

01:27:19 ◼   ► buried in some screen somewhere, but I

01:27:22 ◼   ► I think the idea of obsessively monitoring it, especially to the degree that you have an always

01:27:27 ◼   ► visible user interface element like the status bar on such a tiny screen, is just not going to

01:27:33 ◼   ► be ported to the watch. And kind of in the same way that a lot of the complexities and traditions

01:27:40 ◼   ► of desktop computers did not make it to iOS, now going from iOS to the watch is yet another

01:27:45 ◼   ► opportunity to shed some things that you know you're always supposed to have. And a battery

01:27:49 ◼   ► indicator is one of those things. Oh, you always have access to the file system. Well,

01:27:52 ◼   ► in iOS you don't. Deal with it. Oh, well you always see a battery indicator. Well,

01:27:55 ◼   ► on the watch you don't. Deal with it. All right. Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Squarespace, Igloo, and Lynda.com, and we will see you next week.

01:28:05 ◼   ► week.

01:28:12 ◼   ► Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey

01:28:22 ◼   ► wouldn't let him Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:28:29 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm And if you're into Twitter, you can follow

01:28:38 ◼   ► them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, E-N-T, Marco Arment,

01:28:50 ◼   ► S-I-R-A-C, USA, Syracuse. It's accidental. They didn't mean to. Accidental.

01:29:03 ◼   ► Tech podcast so long.

01:29:08 ◼   ► Of course, the other option is they just didn't have time to mock up where the battery indicator

01:29:11 ◼   ► is going to go when the release version will have one up in the corner. Because as we know from the

01:29:16 ◼   ► yet another developer release of Yosemite, sometimes Apple's just not entirely done with

01:29:21 ◼   ► the graphics for stuff and they have to change it in every freaking release. I took all my,

01:29:27 ◼   ► did I tell you I did all my screenshots? I thought it was done with screenshots except for if any

01:29:32 ◼   ► few little things changed and then they do no build and I'm like, "Oh, it looks the same,

01:29:36 ◼   ► I should be fine. And I start digging and it's not. And it's terrible.

01:29:40 ◼   ► So how is the review? I'm starting to now read what I wrote.

01:29:44 ◼   ► Oh, that's good. Yeah. So it doesn't mean I'm done. There are still things that I skipped over

01:29:48 ◼   ► and things that I couldn't get to work and things that they changed and, you know, new builds. But

01:29:53 ◼   ► I went back to the beginning and said, let me see what I wrote and I'm going back through it now.

01:29:57 ◼   ► So I still do not have anything publishable. And there are still things that I can't get to work

01:30:04 ◼   ► right. Something that should be pointed out is if you want to support us in ways

01:30:12 ◼   ► that don't involve our sponsors which the number one best way to

01:30:15 ◼   ► support us is to to try out our sponsors to check them out and see what they

01:30:20 ◼   ► have to do. But if you want to support us and by us I mean John, when the review

01:30:25 ◼   ► comes out it will presumably be available as an e-book go ahead and buy

01:30:28 ◼   ► that e-book. While you're there buy fast text. Oh god don't because I'm gonna just

01:30:34 ◼   ► feel even more guilty about the fact that it's not updated.

01:30:37 ◼   ► - I would love to see a FastTech sales spike

01:30:40 ◼   ► just come out of nowhere.

01:30:41 ◼   ► - That would be kind of funny, but no.

01:30:44 ◼   ► - Come on listeners, you can do it.

01:30:45 ◼   ► Everybody go out and buy FastTech this week.

01:30:47 ◼   ► - We didn't even, speaking of things that might be

01:30:49 ◼   ► on your iOS device that you never use and want to get rid of,

01:30:51 ◼   ► we didn't even talk about the YouTube thing.

01:30:53 ◼   ► - Oh, thanks.

01:30:55 ◼   ► - Well, it's saying like you can buy the ebook

01:30:56 ◼   ► as a form of support.

01:30:57 ◼   ► You don't have to ever read it.

01:30:58 ◼   ► You can buy it and just delete it.

01:30:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:31:02 ◼   ► But anyway, we didn't talk about the U2 thing.

01:31:05 ◼   ► I know Marco didn't post about that, and I just agree with everything he said, but it

01:31:08 ◼   ► would've been worth talking about probably.

01:31:09 ◼   ► Well, we just did.

01:31:11 ◼   ► Done.

01:31:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:13 ◼   ► Oh, except for now, one thing we didn't post about is you're supposed to do, "Oh, I tried

01:31:17 ◼   ► to give it a fair shot, but I stopped after the first song and a half."

01:31:20 ◼   ► That's not a fair shot.

01:31:21 ◼   ► You have to actually listen to the album.

01:31:23 ◼   ► I listened to the rest of it before the livestream tonight.

01:31:25 ◼   ► All right.

01:31:26 ◼   ► Well, that's what I'm saying.

01:31:27 ◼   ► Like, you said, "I think," did you say that you gave it a fair shot, or you tried to give

01:31:32 ◼   ► I don't remember you I said something like I wanted to give it a fair shot and I stopped after one and a half songs

01:31:36 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, so you wanted to but you did not well, hold on though

01:31:40 ◼   ► I mean, you know

01:31:40 ◼   ► I listen to albums if an album does if an album the head is like

01:31:44 ◼   ► Unbearably boring and doesn't grab me like fish after the first song and a half

01:31:48 ◼   ► So after 40 minutes of is it really gonna get better like well

01:31:52 ◼   ► No, like I said your favorite song in the entire world could have been the last song on that album

01:31:55 ◼   ► You would never know if you stopped you gotta listen to at least once

01:31:57 ◼   ► I mean some people would say you have to listen to it more than once to give it a fair shot