ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► That's how long it takes me to reboot.

00:00:01 ◼   ► So nine minutes.

00:00:03 ◼   ► Yep.

00:00:03 ◼   ► Although I think there might still

00:00:04 ◼   ► be some spinners on some Chrome tabs and some Finder windows.

00:00:07 ◼   ► Finder windows are usually the last things

00:00:09 ◼   ► to get spinners off of them.

00:00:10 ◼   ► Are you referring to those wake from sleep spinners,

00:00:13 ◼   ► like since Mavericks or since Line, whatever?

00:00:16 ◼   ► No.

00:00:16 ◼   ► The spinners that are in the upper right corner of a Finder

00:00:19 ◼   ► window when it's trying to just display the contents.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Not the, here is a fake screenshot of a window

00:00:23 ◼   ► and I'm going to put a giant spinner or not those.

00:00:25 ◼   ► I've never even seen the ones you're talking about,

00:00:27 ◼   ► I don't think.

00:00:28 ◼   ► I know, because you have SSDs.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I don't see him at work either.

00:00:31 ◼   ► You get spinning disks and about four million files on them,

00:00:34 ◼   ► literally, and you get to see all sorts of spinners.

00:00:37 ◼   ► You get to see Chrome tabs die with the frowny face

00:00:39 ◼   ► because they just assume the world is broken.

00:00:41 ◼   ► They give up.

00:00:42 ◼   ► You get to see dock icons stop bouncing in the dock.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Have you seen that lately?

00:00:46 ◼   ► No.

00:00:47 ◼   ► So it's something most people don't even know about.

00:00:49 ◼   ► It's so bogged down that they can't bounce.

00:00:52 ◼   ► No.

00:00:52 ◼   ► So there's a certain-- I don't know

00:00:53 ◼   ► if it's a number of bounces or a number of time,

00:00:55 ◼   ► but at a certain point, the OS gives up animating the bounce.

00:00:58 ◼   ► It's just like, it doesn't mean the app is hung.

00:01:01 ◼   ► The app may eventually launch, but it's just like,

00:01:03 ◼   ► look, this is just taking too long

00:01:04 ◼   ► and it just gives up bouncing.

00:01:05 ◼   ► There's still no light under it.

00:01:07 ◼   ► It's still in the process of launching.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Eventually the little indicator light will appear under it.

00:01:11 ◼   ► But I see it all the time.

00:01:12 ◼   ► - That's amazing.

00:01:14 ◼   ► - Part of the reason I haven't upgraded my machine

00:01:15 ◼   ► is because it's so unusable because it has platter drives

00:01:19 ◼   ► and I just don't want to deal with it.

00:01:20 ◼   ► - I've almost bought an SSD so many times, so many.

00:01:23 ◼   ► - Well, actually, if you want a good deal on a new Mac Pro.

00:01:27 ◼   ► - Oh God, save it for the show.

00:01:28 ◼   ► - I told you, $5.

00:01:30 ◼   ► - Ugh.

00:01:31 ◼   ► - That's a good deal.

00:01:32 ◼   ► - Someday I will take that offer.

00:01:33 ◼   ► - No, I won't want it then.

00:01:35 ◼   ► - If you're willing to wait long enough.

00:01:36 ◼   ► - Right.

00:01:37 ◼   ► - On an infinite timescale.

00:01:38 ◼   ► - Oh Jesus, here we go.

00:01:40 ◼   ► - That's not how that works.

00:01:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:43 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:01:44 ◼   ► I X'd out all the items in follow up except for one,

00:01:47 ◼   ► because we do have a lot of follow up

00:01:48 ◼   ► and I'm trying to trim it for today's show.

00:01:51 ◼   ► - Good, good.

00:01:52 ◼   ► - The one thing I wanted to follow up on was

00:01:54 ◼   ► on last week's show, which was so long ago now,

00:01:56 ◼   ► because we delayed the show for the Apple event, I was excited about the fact that the

00:02:00 ◼   ► GameCube controller adapter for the Wii U was going to let me use my GameCube controller

00:02:05 ◼   ► for any game on the Wii U that also supported the Wii U Pro controller.

00:02:09 ◼   ► And when I saw that on some random website, I didn't believe it, and I said, "I need confirmation

00:02:14 ◼   ► of this."

00:02:15 ◼   ► And the website linked back to Nintendo's official website that's owned by the company,

00:02:20 ◼   ► and right there on plain text on Nintendo's own website, it said that, "Yes, you can use

00:02:24 ◼   ► your GameCube controller with this adapter for any Wii U game that supports the Wii U

00:02:27 ◼   ► Pro controller. And I was very excited and we recorded last week's podcast. And then

00:02:32 ◼   ► right after the podcast was over, or maybe it was like the next day, but shortly thereafter,

00:02:37 ◼   ► Nintendo itself and all the articles that had cited Nintendo itself issued a correction

00:02:41 ◼   ► that, oh, no, just kidding. Actually, you can only use it for Smash Brothers. Sorry

00:02:44 ◼   ► about that. So I was sad.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Well, it makes me sad that you were sad.

00:02:48 ◼   ► I mean, like, that's just the worst ever. You know, it's kind of like these rumors where

00:02:52 ◼   ► You don't trust it until you see it.

00:02:53 ◼   ► It's like seeing something on apple.com saying,

00:02:55 ◼   ► you know, you can use the new iMac

00:02:59 ◼   ► as a retina display for your Mac Pro.

00:03:01 ◼   ► And you have like a day of that where you're super excited.

00:03:03 ◼   ► And then the next day Apple says,

00:03:04 ◼   ► oh, actually, no, you can't, sorry.

00:03:06 ◼   ► That was a mistake on our website.

00:03:08 ◼   ► - Nice.

00:03:09 ◼   ► All right, do we wanna talk about the event first

00:03:11 ◼   ► or do we wanna talk about your review first?

00:03:14 ◼   ► - Come on, you missed the chance to say,

00:03:15 ◼   ► so how's the review?

00:03:17 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:03:19 ◼   ► - You're right.

00:03:19 ◼   ► - You guys can pick,

00:03:20 ◼   ► but I think we have enough time for both of them

00:03:22 ◼   ► because we've only done that one item of follow-up,

00:03:24 ◼   ► so you can pick which one you wanna talk about first.

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00:06:21 ◼   ► - All right, so we are recording this on Friday night,

00:06:25 ◼   ► the 17th of October, and yesterday,

00:06:28 ◼   ► there was another Apple event,

00:06:30 ◼   ► this time talking about a lot of stuff we already knew about

00:06:34 ◼   ► and then some new iPads.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And I think the first thing I should note

00:06:38 ◼   ► is that the streaming for me,

00:06:41 ◼   ► and I was streaming to my iPad mini that is now sort of but not really old.

00:06:48 ◼   ► No, no, it's new. It's now the iPad mini 2. It got upgraded.

00:06:51 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true. It is new yet the same.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Anyway, so it's streaming to my iPad mini which is connected via the HDMI adapter to a TV in my office.

00:07:01 ◼   ► That worked pretty much flawlessly the entire time.

00:07:03 ◼   ► And that was a welcome change from the utter disaster that was the iPhone keynote.

00:07:09 ◼   ► And I wanted to ask you guys,

00:07:10 ◼   ► do you think that's because nobody cared

00:07:12 ◼   ► about the iPad keynote and there were a lot fewer viewers?

00:07:16 ◼   ► Or do you think that Apple actually got their stuff together

00:07:18 ◼   ► or a little of column A, little of column B?

00:07:21 ◼   ► - Oh, I'd say it's definitely a lot of column A

00:07:23 ◼   ► and maybe a little bit of column B.

00:07:25 ◼   ► I mean, every year the iPhone event is always by far

00:07:29 ◼   ► the more important and the more watched and listened to one.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Like if you ask people who run the big sites

00:07:36 ◼   ► who do live vlogs, they'll tell you the same thing

00:07:38 ◼   ► where the iPhone event is by far the bigger event

00:07:42 ◼   ► of the year.

00:07:42 ◼   ► And people do care about the iPad and stuff,

00:07:45 ◼   ► but it's a lot fewer non-nerds who will actually

00:07:49 ◼   ► go to the trouble of watching the stream live.

00:07:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, last time they had not just performance problems,

00:07:55 ◼   ► but just even if there was only one person listening,

00:07:57 ◼   ► they would have heard someone speaking in Chinese

00:07:59 ◼   ► over half of the thing, right?

00:08:00 ◼   ► So that's not a performance problem.

00:08:01 ◼   ► That's a you don't have your wires crossed kind of problem.

00:08:04 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:08:05 ◼   ► - Or do have your wires crossed.

00:08:06 ◼   ► And so this was at the town hall,

00:08:08 ◼   ► And you got to think as a home field advantage there where it's their database their database their network connection their network people all their own

00:08:15 ◼   ► infrastructure

00:08:16 ◼   ► Their video guys where it seemed like there was a TV truck that perhaps was not affiliated with Apple

00:08:22 ◼   ► That was involved in the iWatch event

00:08:24 ◼   ► I can still call it the iWatch event because we called it that before we knew what the thing would be called

00:08:29 ◼   ► So it's gonna be forever be the iWatch event anyway

00:08:31 ◼   ► I don't know if that's the case

00:08:34 ◼   ► But it just seemed like when they that are in the Flint Center and this other big venue

00:08:38 ◼   ► They don't have control over every part of the experience of broadcasting and it just fell apart

00:08:43 ◼   ► Whereas when they do it in their little town hall thing or wherever they did the the iPad event they control everything

00:08:48 ◼   ► So yeah, no problems with streaming here. I had a running on two different streams

00:08:52 ◼   ► Then the game I played was try to get a stream that's farther ahead because one stream would be like

00:08:56 ◼   ► You know seven seconds ahead of the other one and I'd reload it just for the hell of it to see if it would jump

00:09:01 ◼   ► Forward but other than that no drops

00:09:03 ◼   ► Yeah, you know this time this event and the iPhone event I watched in the office and

00:09:08 ◼   ► This time what I did was I made sure that I had tweetbot

00:09:14 ◼   ► Always visible because I'm a really heavy user of them

00:09:18 ◼   ► What is it spaces where you know?

00:09:19 ◼   ► you have multiple virtual desktops and I made sure that we thought was always visible and I engaged the

00:09:25 ◼   ► Pin the timeline to the top thing or I forget I forget there's a better way of describing that

00:09:30 ◼   ► But anyways, so basically as all these tweets come in the timeline is always automatically scrolling to the top and that was

00:09:39 ◼   ► both the best and worst way to watch this keynote because I felt like I was thoroughly entertained by

00:09:47 ◼   ► Watching all these tweets go by with the exception of a thousand freaking dogs, which I was really bored of very quickly

00:09:53 ◼   ► but then again, so were the dogs and

00:09:56 ◼   ► And so it was almost more work watching the Twitter stream and all and I was almost more interested watching the Twitter stream than I

00:10:02 ◼   ► Was the event which probably speaks to the quality of the event?

00:10:05 ◼   ► Well when you saw them doing just like demo after demo of things we've seen before let's go over the adoption numbers

00:10:11 ◼   ► Let's show you what's in these different OS's and like not just mentioning them or putting up bullet points in a slide

00:10:16 ◼   ► But like here, let's show you iOS 8 again

00:10:18 ◼   ► It's like are you kidding me you knew there was not going to be a big exciting one more thing at the end of this

00:10:23 ◼   ► keynote it was just going to be

00:10:25 ◼   ► this little dog and pony show and then all the stuff that we knew was coming in, which is fine.

00:10:30 ◼   ► But I don't know why you need, I guess they feel like they have a captive audience,

00:10:34 ◼   ► but why do you need to re-demonstrate iOS 8 and Yosemite that long for this type of thing? Just

00:10:40 ◼   ► get in, get out, get done. Anyway, it wasn't that bad. I thought it was fine.

00:10:44 ◼   ► - All right, so they did all these demos. I do think that Federiki, and I've said this several

00:10:50 ◼   ► several times in the past, is my favorite presenter.

00:10:53 ◼   ► He pulls off the really dorky kind of dad jokes,

00:10:57 ◼   ► I think, better than anyone else.

00:10:59 ◼   ► I think Q tries to, and it doesn't always land well,

00:11:03 ◼   ► which is probably how it would be

00:11:04 ◼   ► if I was presenting these jokes,

00:11:06 ◼   ► but nevertheless, I love Craig.

00:11:09 ◼   ► I think he does a wonderful job presenting.

00:11:11 ◼   ► I know I've said this a thousand times,

00:11:12 ◼   ► but he's so much better now than he ever used to be,

00:11:15 ◼   ► and I will never forget that first presentation,

00:11:18 ◼   ► and gosh, he's so much better now.

00:11:20 ◼   ► It's almost, you could almost say that it's,

00:11:22 ◼   ► that I appreciate him more having seen

00:11:24 ◼   ► that first presentation in like 2011, 2012.

00:11:26 ◼   ► But I thought it was all really good.

00:11:29 ◼   ► And I thought the call with Stephen Colbert,

00:11:32 ◼   ► as these silly, ridiculous calls go,

00:11:34 ◼   ► was one of the better ones.

00:11:36 ◼   ► - So who's obsessed with the celebrities?

00:11:38 ◼   ► Who's, do we think it's Tim Cook

00:11:40 ◼   ► is obsessed with the celebrities?

00:11:42 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:11:43 ◼   ► It's weird.

00:11:44 ◼   ► - So I mean, someone is,

00:11:45 ◼   ► because Steve Jobs was not in general.

00:11:47 ◼   ► Is Steve Jobs like to have a musical guest at the end

00:11:49 ◼   ► and he would schmooze with them and all that stuff.

00:11:50 ◼   ► That was his thing, but really limited amount

00:11:54 ◼   ► of stunt casting in the keynote,

00:11:57 ◼   ► because Steve Jobs was a star of those.

00:11:59 ◼   ► He felt like he should be there,

00:12:00 ◼   ► but now it's like, you just come to expect it now.

00:12:04 ◼   ► And I thought the Colbert thing was fine.

00:12:07 ◼   ► The problem with having Colbert on is even over a phone,

00:12:10 ◼   ► which I couldn't believe they did it over a phone.

00:12:11 ◼   ► He wasn't over, it didn't sound like he was over

00:12:13 ◼   ► a voiceover IP because the quality was terrible.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Like he was on a POTS line, it sounded like, really bad.

00:12:19 ◼   ► But even over that, you can see, for the three or four little stilted lines he had to read,

00:12:24 ◼   ► it was like, "See guys, this is what an actual performer is like."

00:12:27 ◼   ► I mean, I don't blame their executives at Apple.

00:12:29 ◼   ► Like, they're not actors, they're not comedians, which is probably why they shouldn't do comedy

00:12:33 ◼   ► skits in the middle of these things.

00:12:34 ◼   ► Like, don't plan it out, be spontaneously funny or pretend to be spontaneously funny.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Don't go into a skit.

00:12:39 ◼   ► But Colbert's line delivery, even when reading this silly script, was so much better than

00:12:44 ◼   ► the other side of the conversation.

00:12:45 ◼   ► So don't bring real comedians on it,

00:12:47 ◼   ► just highlights how you are not a real comedian.

00:12:49 ◼   ► But I thought it was fine.

00:12:50 ◼   ► All the people who were like Marco just went,

00:12:52 ◼   ► "Ugh, I know a lot of people were cringing

00:12:53 ◼   ► and couldn't handle the embarrassment of it."

00:12:55 ◼   ► It's like, whatever.

00:12:56 ◼   ► I mean, even the silly thing with Bono,

00:12:58 ◼   ► like that was painful because both Tim and Bono

00:13:02 ◼   ► are not natural in the environment of trying to,

00:13:05 ◼   ► whatever, it's like exposition plus comedy plus drama

00:13:08 ◼   ► plus whatever they're trying to do,

00:13:09 ◼   ► it is not their strengths.

00:13:11 ◼   ► Stephen Colbert was funny.

00:13:13 ◼   ► Craig was fine.

00:13:14 ◼   ► The little handshake thing I thought was funny.

00:13:16 ◼   ► You know, Eddy Cue not being able to do it.

00:13:18 ◼   ► The two guys who did do the handshake were funny.

00:13:20 ◼   ► - Oh, I forgot about that.

00:13:21 ◼   ► That was even worse.

00:13:22 ◼   ► - I thought that was cute.

00:13:23 ◼   ► And like I said, like I tweeted when it was going on,

00:13:26 ◼   ► showing the rumor site with the,

00:13:28 ◼   ► the spaceship campus taking off.

00:13:29 ◼   ► That was dumb, but I got,

00:13:31 ◼   ► I just was so excited to think about,

00:13:33 ◼   ► someone had to go to their graphics department and say,

00:13:35 ◼   ► "We need a fake rumor."

00:13:36 ◼   ► Make up a fake rumor and then make an awesome graphic

00:13:38 ◼   ► where like the quality of that fake flying

00:13:41 ◼   ► campus building room or thing was so much higher than you.

00:13:44 ◼   ► It's like a lot of effort in town going into a throwaway gag.

00:13:48 ◼   ► That's that's an area where they could help like Colbert and The Daily Show,

00:13:52 ◼   ► because those guys got to put together some motion graphics

00:13:54 ◼   ► or some little picture to be up to the right of the talking head in five minutes.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Whereas Apple, some poor guy at Apple probably sweated over that flying

00:14:01 ◼   ► circular building. But anyway, I whatever I don't get too hung up on

00:14:06 ◼   ► that part of the thing.

00:14:08 ◼   ► and we didn't expect great things out of this presentation

00:14:11 ◼   ► anyway, and so we got what we got, right?

00:14:14 ◼   ► - I would rather have a presentation

00:14:16 ◼   ► that's 10 minutes shorter than have one that includes

00:14:20 ◼   ► awkward and really painfully unfunny skits,

00:14:24 ◼   ► 'cause they don't need that.

00:14:25 ◼   ► - You aren't amused a little bit by them?

00:14:27 ◼   ► Like, if I was gonna cut stuff,

00:14:28 ◼   ► I would cut that intro video showing everybody

00:14:31 ◼   ► happy to get iPhones, never do that again,

00:14:33 ◼   ► as someone tweeted, and I agree.

00:14:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, we've seen it too many times.

00:14:35 ◼   ► - I would cut all the demos of things

00:14:37 ◼   ► we've already seen demoed,

00:14:38 ◼   ► because this is a low, you know,

00:14:39 ◼   ► not many people are watching this.

00:14:41 ◼   ► The people who are watching it

00:14:42 ◼   ► already know what iOS 8 is about.

00:14:44 ◼   ► Don't re-demo that.

00:14:45 ◼   ► Maybe do a little recap of Yosemite, fine.

00:14:47 ◼   ► And then I would keep whatever the best segment was.

00:14:51 ◼   ► So maybe keep the Colbert thing in

00:14:52 ◼   ► and then drop the other one.

00:14:53 ◼   ► But, you know, I just think someone has,

00:14:58 ◼   ► someone likes celebrities.

00:15:00 ◼   ► And I don't know if it's all the way at the top,

00:15:02 ◼   ► Tim Cook likes them or as individual VPs like them,

00:15:05 ◼   ► or they just want to find excuses

00:15:07 ◼   ► to talk to their favorite celebrities,

00:15:08 ◼   ► which I wouldn't blame them for.

00:15:10 ◼   ► Hey, you know, what advantages are there

00:15:12 ◼   ► of being a senior vice president or CEO of Apple?

00:15:16 ◼   ► Well, I can meet all my favorite celebrities.

00:15:18 ◼   ► All right, go.

00:15:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:19 ◼   ► - I figure it's gotta be Tim Cook,

00:15:21 ◼   ► because you can see like when Tim is involved,

00:15:24 ◼   ► you can see he's like giddy about like

00:15:26 ◼   ► how incredibly happy he is.

00:15:28 ◼   ► And like, no one else is nearly as excited as he is

00:15:31 ◼   ► about what's happening, you know?

00:15:32 ◼   ► Like, I think it's definitely like you could tell like,

00:15:35 ◼   ► you know, Cook is the one who's really into celebrities.

00:15:36 ◼   ► and that's why they keep happening.

00:15:38 ◼   ► But man, I wish they wouldn't,

00:15:40 ◼   ► because it just doesn't work.

00:15:42 ◼   ► It's boring, it's not funny, it's painful,

00:15:45 ◼   ► and it detracts from the presentation.

00:15:47 ◼   ► It detracts from the whole reason we're there.

00:15:50 ◼   ► These are good presentations.

00:15:52 ◼   ► They have good things to announce.

00:15:54 ◼   ► There's no reason to bring them down

00:15:56 ◼   ► in this weird, awkward way.

00:15:57 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't see why it's worth it.

00:16:02 ◼   ► - See, I disagree.

00:16:03 ◼   ► I'm more with Jon in that

00:16:06 ◼   ► Although they work kind of silly and lame,

00:16:08 ◼   ► at least it shows that Apple has a little bit of personality

00:16:11 ◼   ► and it's not just a completely boring, stodgy,

00:16:14 ◼   ► this is what we've come up with, this is the new iPad,

00:16:18 ◼   ► this is the new iMac, hooray.

00:16:20 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, I felt like it at least added some color,

00:16:23 ◼   ► probably got beaten to death,

00:16:25 ◼   ► but it's at least add some amount of entertainment.

00:16:28 ◼   ► And Colbert's line about, you know what I see on my wrist,

00:16:33 ◼   ► or when I look at my wrist, my wrist get to work,

00:16:36 ◼   ► I thought that was hysterical.

00:16:37 ◼   ► - It was, but the problem, you know, like as Jon said,

00:16:39 ◼   ► the problem is like the delivery overall of the whole thing

00:16:43 ◼   ► is usually like too slow, too forced, too awkward,

00:16:46 ◼   ► and you know, and whether that's the side

00:16:47 ◼   ► of just the Apple people or both sides varies on the skit,

00:16:50 ◼   ► but they don't need it because it doesn't,

00:16:52 ◼   ► see, it doesn't seem to me like they're communicating

00:16:55 ◼   ► personality or adding personality.

00:16:56 ◼   ► To me, it seems forced to scripted,

00:17:00 ◼   ► 'cause you know, we know these things are very scripted.

00:17:01 ◼   ► We know they've rehearsed, we know that almost every line

00:17:04 ◼   ► is considered and written beforehand.

00:17:06 ◼   ► - Well, that wrist line, I assume, was an ad lib.

00:17:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:17:10 ◼   ► - Because Stephen Colbert, I have to read this,

00:17:11 ◼   ► like they give him a script and he looks at it and goes,

00:17:13 ◼   ► oh, this is crap, and then I'm assuming

00:17:15 ◼   ► he made that line himself at the end.

00:17:17 ◼   ► - Maybe, or maybe they approved it.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Whatever the case is, it's very clear these things are,

00:17:22 ◼   ► at least on the Apple side, extremely scripted

00:17:25 ◼   ► and extremely rehearsed, and they're read

00:17:28 ◼   ► at an extremely slow pace, which is good

00:17:30 ◼   ► when you're presenting details of a product

00:17:32 ◼   ► that the press has to write down.

00:17:33 ◼   ► but when you're doing some kind of entertainment bit,

00:17:37 ◼   ► it just feels really awkward and forced.

00:17:39 ◼   ► And it doesn't feel to me, it doesn't feel genuine.

00:17:43 ◼   ► It feels like we thought this would get you excited

00:17:46 ◼   ► and we're kind of excited to do something with a celebrity,

00:17:49 ◼   ► so we're doing it in this planned, artificial, forced way.

00:17:53 ◼   ► But it just does not feel genuine at all.

00:17:55 ◼   ► - Well, it breaks up the flow of the presentation,

00:17:57 ◼   ► which is the biggest downside for it.

00:17:59 ◼   ► But in the absence of genuine enthusiasm

00:18:03 ◼   ► by the presenter about the tech details

00:18:05 ◼   ► or the product features.

00:18:06 ◼   ► It's like this kind of, it was kind of filling the void.

00:18:10 ◼   ► And I don't think the filler is the problem.

00:18:12 ◼   ► It's the void that's the problem.

00:18:13 ◼   ► Like there was, I said this many times

00:18:15 ◼   ► that whenever Steve Jobs showed something

00:18:17 ◼   ► there was some aspect of it

00:18:19 ◼   ► that he was obviously super excited about.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And sometimes that aspect was stupid

00:18:23 ◼   ► but his excitement was genuine.

00:18:25 ◼   ► And he was, whatever it was, he's excited about a volume

00:18:27 ◼   ► button, he's excited about, you know, the edge of something.

00:18:30 ◼   ► He's excited about a particular software feature.

00:18:32 ◼   ► He was super excited about it.

00:18:34 ◼   ► And his enthusiasm, despite whether you yourself

00:18:37 ◼   ► were excited about it, was infectious.

00:18:39 ◼   ► You need something like that to drive the presentation.

00:18:41 ◼   ► And sometimes I get the idea that like, at this point,

00:18:45 ◼   ► Craig Federighi is no longer particularly excited

00:18:47 ◼   ► about iOS 8 extensions, 'cause he's like,

00:18:50 ◼   ► he's done with them.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Like he was excited about doing them.

00:18:53 ◼   ► He did them.

00:18:53 ◼   ► He's talked about them on stage 10 times.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Now they're gonna ship.

00:18:57 ◼   ► He's probably worried about bugs and iOS 8.1 and iOS 9

00:19:01 ◼   ► whatever he's worried about, he can't muster the enthusiasm

00:19:04 ◼   ► to tell you how excited he is about iOS 8 extensions,

00:19:06 ◼   ► what they mean for the iOS platform and stuff like that.

00:19:09 ◼   ► So to fill in that void of enthusiasm, that's like,

00:19:12 ◼   ► oh, now we'll have a celebrity skit because they are excited

00:19:16 ◼   ► about talking to Stephen Colbert.

00:19:17 ◼   ► And that's, that I think is the worst part of it.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Not the skits in themselves, but just that they seem

00:19:22 ◼   ► to be filling in for something that's missing.

00:19:25 ◼   ► - All right.

00:19:27 ◼   ► - Let's talk about actual products.

00:19:28 ◼   ► How about that?

00:19:29 ◼   ► - We certainly can.

00:19:30 ◼   ► So they retconned my beloved RetinaPad Mini,

00:19:35 ◼   ► and now it's the iPad Mini 2?

00:19:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, congratulations.

00:19:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, so now it will make Steven Hackett even more upset

00:19:43 ◼   ► when I call it the RetinaPad Mini,

00:19:45 ◼   ► which that's kind of enjoyable, I suppose.

00:19:47 ◼   ► But yeah, so it's now the iPad Mini 2.

00:19:50 ◼   ► I got that right, I think.

00:19:52 ◼   ► And what did they, they dropped the price $100?

00:19:54 ◼   ► Is that correct?

00:19:56 ◼   ► - Not even, not even, right?

00:19:57 ◼   ► It's $249, right?

00:19:58 ◼   ► - No, that's the old one, which is still for sale,

00:20:01 ◼   ► which is crazy that they are still for another year,

00:20:05 ◼   ► or at least for now, they are still selling

00:20:08 ◼   ► the A5 based iPad mini one, which is based on the iPad two,

00:20:13 ◼   ► which came out in 2011.

00:20:14 ◼   ► - And the iPod touch is the same as the mini, isn't it?

00:20:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, the A5, right?

00:20:19 ◼   ► It's still A5 based.

00:20:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I mean, even though they didn't announce

00:20:22 ◼   ► a new one, they're still selling the old one, I assume.

00:20:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:20:25 ◼   ► So this, as a developer, that makes me nervous and a little frustrated because, you know,

00:20:31 ◼   ► the A5 was a great chip when it came out in 2011, in early 2011 at that.

00:20:37 ◼   ► But it is now no longer a great chip.

00:20:39 ◼   ► It is, you know, if anybody who tries to run iOS 8 on an original iPad mini, an iPad 3,

00:20:47 ◼   ► which uses the same A5 CPU just with bigger GPU.

00:20:51 ◼   ► So iPad mini, non-retina, iPad 3, any iPod touch, and the iPhone 4S.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Those are all the A5 devices.

00:20:59 ◼   ► If you've tried to run iOS 8 on an A5 device, you know that that's not a great experience.

00:21:05 ◼   ► It works, but it's pretty rough.

00:21:08 ◼   ► And that's, because they're now still selling devices that use that, that means that chances

00:21:16 ◼   ► are, so iOS 8, obviously we're stuck with this for the next year, but what's going to

00:21:20 ◼   ► happen next year when iOS 9 comes out. Is iOS 9 going to still need to support this

00:21:26 ◼   ► because they're still going to be selling it when it they're still gonna be selling

00:21:29 ◼   ► original iPad minis when it comes out? It's constricting everybody. It's especially

00:21:34 ◼   ► bad for game developers or anybody who depends on a lot of GPU power. The funny thing is

00:21:38 ◼   ► like they should they showed in the presentation that that wonderful big hockey stick graph

00:21:43 ◼   ► of the GPU power increase over the iPad's lifetime. And the hilarious thing is that

00:21:49 ◼   ► these models that they're still selling, the second dot on that graph, that's them.

00:21:54 ◼   ► That's the iPad 2.

00:21:56 ◼   ► That like, they're still selling that today.

00:21:59 ◼   ► Is it the case that developers can't do anything with their apps to basically not make it work

00:22:04 ◼   ► on the A5 devices?

00:22:06 ◼   ► That is correct.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Developers cannot exclude A5 devices.

00:22:10 ◼   ► They just, there's no mechanism to it.

00:22:14 ◼   ► Developers used to hack around this by like, they'd figure out like some hardware feature

00:22:17 ◼   ► that was added, like they'll be like,

00:22:18 ◼   ► "Oh, well this requires a gyroscope."

00:22:20 ◼   ► That didn't exist in like the iPhone 3GS.

00:22:22 ◼   ► They would figure out ways like that,

00:22:24 ◼   ► but there are no more of those ways

00:22:25 ◼   ► that would exclude only the A5 devices.

00:22:28 ◼   ► And it's also against the rules to do that anyway.

00:22:30 ◼   ► So if Apple caught you doing that,

00:22:32 ◼   ► like excluding based on a hardware thing

00:22:34 ◼   ► that you didn't really need to be excluding for,

00:22:36 ◼   ► they would ding you for that.

00:22:37 ◼   ► So there's really no way,

00:22:39 ◼   ► and it sucks for game developers who rely on this

00:22:41 ◼   ► because not only do they have to either

00:22:43 ◼   ► still support the A5 devices,

00:22:45 ◼   ► which is a huge burden on any kind of modern graphics

00:22:48 ◼   ► and modern stuff like that.

00:22:50 ◼   ► Or they have to say in their description,

00:22:52 ◼   ► which many of them do,

00:22:52 ◼   ► "Warning, do not buy this if you have devices X, Y, and Z."

00:22:56 ◼   ► - And then deal with all the one-star reviews

00:22:57 ◼   ► and the angry people that you can't respond to

00:22:59 ◼   ► 'cause you don't know who they are, yeah.

00:23:01 ◼   ► - Right, 'cause nobody reads the descriptions.

00:23:03 ◼   ► So you get every single person who buy,

00:23:06 ◼   ► and it sucks that if it's paid up front,

00:23:08 ◼   ► then you can't refund it.

00:23:09 ◼   ► It's a bad situation for so many reasons.

00:23:13 ◼   ► This is why I think, we know in the industry

00:23:17 ◼   ► the idea of the strategy tax.

00:23:19 ◼   ► And the strategy tax basically,

00:23:21 ◼   ► some part of a big tech company,

00:23:25 ◼   ► their strategic needs are holding back

00:23:28 ◼   ► some other part of the company's strategic needs.

00:23:30 ◼   ► We knew in Microsoft, this was like Office and Windows

00:23:35 ◼   ► fighting and having to preserve Windows everywhere,

00:23:39 ◼   ► holding back their mobile strategy and stuff like that.

00:23:41 ◼   ► I think with Apple, their profit margins on their hardware

00:23:46 ◼   ► and someone deciding that they need to keep pushing devices

00:23:50 ◼   ► lower and lower and keeping them around longer and longer,

00:23:53 ◼   ► that is the Apple strategy tax that we're seeing,

00:23:55 ◼   ► besides their being massively overcommitted

00:23:58 ◼   ► on software needs.

00:23:59 ◼   ► But besides that--

00:24:00 ◼   ► - It doesn't have to be though,

00:24:02 ◼   ► because I think it's good for them to have a cheap product.

00:24:05 ◼   ► They're a big hang up and it's not like,

00:24:07 ◼   ► it doesn't fall out of their strategy

00:24:09 ◼   ► of we need to be at $249 for our iPads.

00:24:12 ◼   ► The problem is that, with the exception, I guess,

00:24:15 ◼   ► maybe of the iPhone 5C, they just refuse to make

00:24:19 ◼   ► a fresh, low-cost device.

00:24:21 ◼   ► They always just go with last year's,

00:24:23 ◼   ► and it's like, I've talked about this many times

00:24:25 ◼   ► when the 5C was coming out that I thought they should do it,

00:24:27 ◼   ► and they kind of did with the 5C, but not quite.

00:24:29 ◼   ► Like, you can make a better product at that price point

00:24:32 ◼   ► if you use modern technologies.

00:24:34 ◼   ► Like, I know that you already have the factories

00:24:35 ◼   ► up and going, I know you've been making this,

00:24:37 ◼   ► I know there are economies of scale, blah, blah, blah.

00:24:39 ◼   ► But, and I guess maybe there's margins, like you said.

00:24:42 ◼   ► Give up a little bit of margins,

00:24:44 ◼   ► make a new $249 device that, you know,

00:24:48 ◼   ► has an A6 or A7 in it.

00:24:49 ◼   ► Figure out a way to do that.

00:24:51 ◼   ► Like start from scratch

00:24:52 ◼   ► and make a intentionally low cost device.

00:24:55 ◼   ► So save money where you can,

00:24:56 ◼   ► use a crappier camera, so on and so forth.

00:24:58 ◼   ► But don't just say, well, we have this device

00:25:00 ◼   ► and now we can make it for cheaper.

00:25:01 ◼   ► So done and done.

00:25:03 ◼   ► We'll just keep it around.

00:25:04 ◼   ► Because things age out in that old hardware.

00:25:06 ◼   ► and like the old USB 1, USB 2 example from the PC world

00:25:10 ◼   ► from ages ago, eventually it becomes more expensive

00:25:13 ◼   ► to put USB 1 in your PC because USB 2 is everywhere

00:25:16 ◼   ► and you can't even find USB 1 anymore

00:25:18 ◼   ► and there's no real equivalent for that for iOS devices.

00:25:20 ◼   ► But just if you take a clean sheet and say,

00:25:24 ◼   ► with modern technology and modern prices on components,

00:25:27 ◼   ► can I hit that price point,

00:25:28 ◼   ► give up a little bit of margin

00:25:29 ◼   ► and just make a better product, a better product

00:25:31 ◼   ► because it gives a better impression to your customers,

00:25:33 ◼   ► maybe put a little more RAM in it,

00:25:35 ◼   ► A better product because it makes your developers happy.

00:25:36 ◼   ► And it's just this keeping around of the exact old product

00:25:40 ◼   ► for years and years, iPod Touch,

00:25:42 ◼   ► is just not a good look, as they say.

00:25:45 ◼   ► - Right, well, and it isn't just keeping around the old.

00:25:48 ◼   ► It's even the choices you get with the new.

00:25:50 ◼   ► So, for instance, the 1664/128 split.

00:25:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, we already went through that.

00:25:56 ◼   ► I mean, they did it again, but it's like,

00:25:58 ◼   ► what did we expect them to do?

00:25:59 ◼   ► They're not going to turn,

00:26:00 ◼   ► like that decision was made a year ago.

00:26:02 ◼   ► - Well, and the reason they made that decision

00:26:04 ◼   ► was not so they could make an extra $3 on the 16 gig one

00:26:09 ◼   ► by not putting a 32 gig chip in it.

00:26:10 ◼   ► - And it's trying to push you up to the middle model, right?

00:26:12 ◼   ► - Exactly, see this is, they did some,

00:26:14 ◼   ► they did an amazing trick with the new iPhone pricing.

00:26:17 ◼   ► They have managed to increase their average,

00:26:19 ◼   ► their likely average selling price by like $200 because,

00:26:22 ◼   ► so you figure like so many people

00:26:25 ◼   ► would have been okay with 32.

00:26:27 ◼   ► If 32 was the new baseline,

00:26:29 ◼   ► most people would have bought just the baseline.

00:26:31 ◼   ► That's why.

00:26:32 ◼   ► - I don't know if this plan is gonna work though.

00:26:34 ◼   ► Do you think it's gonna work?

00:26:35 ◼   ► Do you think it's gonna push people up?

00:26:36 ◼   ► I know that seems like it's the aim.

00:26:37 ◼   ► It's a typical anchoring thing where you try

00:26:39 ◼   ► to push people up, but I just wonder if people

00:26:41 ◼   ► are gonna be like, I don't know how flexible people

00:26:44 ◼   ► are to go up to them.

00:26:45 ◼   ► 'Cause the people who buy the bottom model,

00:26:47 ◼   ► do they even know, do they know how much storage

00:26:49 ◼   ► they're using?

00:26:49 ◼   ► Do they know 16 of what?

00:26:50 ◼   ► Do they know how many of whatever those 16 things are

00:26:53 ◼   ► that they're currently using?

00:26:54 ◼   ► - I suspect most iPhone owners have run out of space before.

00:26:57 ◼   ► So I think people buying their very first iPhone

00:27:01 ◼   ► might not be fooled, or might be fooled into getting a 16,

00:27:05 ◼   ► but I think people who are buying their second or third

00:27:07 ◼   ► or fourth iPhone are gonna be way more likely to go

00:27:10 ◼   ► for a bigger size than the base model,

00:27:11 ◼   ► because they've probably faced a storage issue before.

00:27:14 ◼   ► - If only upgrading to iOS 8, right?

00:27:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:27:17 ◼   ► That's yet another big, and so here's the thing,

00:27:19 ◼   ► by continuing to sell these small devices,

00:27:21 ◼   ► oh, and the other half of that is,

00:27:23 ◼   ► so they have this 1664 thing,

00:27:27 ◼   ► so that, again, if 32 was the baseline,

00:27:30 ◼   ► everybody would just buy 32.

00:27:32 ◼   ► They have kind of pushed a lot of people to go upmarket

00:27:35 ◼   ► and to raise their average selling price that way.

00:27:37 ◼   ► Also, keep in mind, the iPhone 6 Plus is $100 more,

00:27:42 ◼   ► and they're selling a lot of those as well.

00:27:44 ◼   ► So the entire pricing of the iPhone line is, I think,

00:27:48 ◼   ► very carefully designed to push

00:27:51 ◼   ► that average selling price upwards.

00:27:53 ◼   ► And if you look at the new iPad lineup,

00:27:56 ◼   ► you can see that when the first Mini came out,

00:28:00 ◼   ► that certainly pushed the average selling price down.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And I don't think it has caught back up

00:28:05 ◼   ► to where it used to be even now.

00:28:06 ◼   ► But if you look at the new lineup,

00:28:08 ◼   ► so you have the old crappy iPad Mini at 250, fine.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Wasn't it, was it 280 before?

00:28:14 ◼   ► Is that roughly the same price?

00:28:16 ◼   ► - 269, I don't remember.

00:28:17 ◼   ► - Something like that.

00:28:19 ◼   ► Retina iPad is now 300 instead of 400.

00:28:23 ◼   ► The iPad Mini 3, which is just the Retina Mini,

00:28:28 ◼   ► but now also available in gold

00:28:29 ◼   ► and with Touch ID, no other changes.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Gold option and Touch ID, $100 more.

00:28:35 ◼   ► And then you have the iPad Air, the old one,

00:28:41 ◼   ► which is still for sale at $400 also,

00:28:43 ◼   ► and then the iPad Air 2,

00:28:45 ◼   ► which is actually a substantial upgrade for $500,

00:28:48 ◼   ► the original price of full-size iPads.

00:28:51 ◼   ► All of this, and of course the same 1664

00:28:54 ◼   ► on most of those models.

00:28:55 ◼   ► So all of this is clearly made to push people up the line.

00:29:00 ◼   ► This is very carefully designed for upselling.

00:29:04 ◼   ► It's very obvious, like Apple's whole product line,

00:29:07 ◼   ► like if you look at their pricing intervals,

00:29:08 ◼   ► they're very, very carefully spaced out

00:29:10 ◼   ► so that there's always something else

00:29:12 ◼   ► that you or a salesperson can talk yourself into

00:29:15 ◼   ► to go like, oh, just a little bit more will get you this,

00:29:17 ◼   ► like until you hit like the absolute most you can spend.

00:29:20 ◼   ► And that is on one side of Apple,

00:29:23 ◼   ► the hardware profit margins side of it,

00:29:26 ◼   ► where they need to maximize that.

00:29:28 ◼   ► Then you look at what it does to developers.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Now, developers, first of all,

00:29:33 ◼   ► have to write to all these old CPUs forever.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Keep in mind, not only is that affecting all of us,

00:29:38 ◼   ► who Apple could kind of not care less about,

00:29:39 ◼   ► like, you know, if life is a little bit harder

00:29:41 ◼   ► for third-party developers in some way like this,

00:29:43 ◼   ► Apple doesn't care that much,

00:29:45 ◼   ► but Apple itself is one of the biggest iOS developers,

00:29:50 ◼   ► if not the biggest iOS developer.

00:29:51 ◼   ► And so Apple has to deal with this too.

00:29:53 ◼   ► When they're making all of their built-in apps,

00:29:56 ◼   ► when they're doing all of their own development,

00:29:58 ◼   ► the development of the OS itself,

00:30:00 ◼   ► what the OS can even do,

00:30:02 ◼   ► Apple is restricted by their own hardware margin needs

00:30:06 ◼   ► on their development side.

00:30:08 ◼   ► And that affects lots of things.

00:30:11 ◼   ► It also affects, you know,

00:30:12 ◼   ► the whole problem with iOS 8 upgrades

00:30:16 ◼   ► and the very likely cause of it being a disk space issue,

00:30:19 ◼   ► that upgrading to iOS 8 requires almost five gigs

00:30:22 ◼   ► of free space and Apple has been selling

00:30:25 ◼   ► eight and 16 gig devices in mass for a long time.

00:30:29 ◼   ► And so it's like the percentage of people

00:30:33 ◼   ► who can't do an over, and yes I know you can plug

00:30:35 ◼   ► into iTunes but no one knows that and no one does that.

00:30:38 ◼   ► The amount of people who have an iOS 7 device

00:30:41 ◼   ► and would upgrade except they don't have five gigs

00:30:44 ◼   ► of free space is substantial.

00:30:46 ◼   ► And so even that, that's the result of previous years,

00:30:50 ◼   ► Apple skimping on memory to boost their margins

00:30:54 ◼   ► and drive people to higher models.

00:30:55 ◼   ► Now that is affecting them this year,

00:30:57 ◼   ► that's affecting their development teams.

00:30:58 ◼   ► And so this is all related, this is why,

00:31:00 ◼   ► it's a clear strategy tax.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Like the hardware margin side of Apple is restricting

00:31:08 ◼   ► and causing problems for the software side of Apple

00:31:11 ◼   ► and the developer side of Apple.

00:31:13 ◼   ► - You know, I think for the most part

00:31:15 ◼   ► I agree with what you said.

00:31:16 ◼   ► One thing I take a little bit of issue with though

00:31:18 ◼   ► is your thought that a lot of regular people

00:31:23 ◼   ► would get not the baseline phone,

00:31:26 ◼   ► not get the 16 gig phone.

00:31:28 ◼   ► And I think in the same way, like you just said,

00:31:30 ◼   ► that not a lot of people realize,

00:31:32 ◼   ► oh, you can plug into iTunes and fix all these problems

00:31:34 ◼   ► to do the iOS 8 upgrade.

00:31:35 ◼   ► I don't think a lot of people really get

00:31:37 ◼   ► into the intricacies of which iPhone to buy.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And I haven't like interrogated my coworkers,

00:31:45 ◼   ► Certainly I've looked around the office over the last year as the 5C became a thing, as

00:31:50 ◼   ► the 5S was a thing, and now as the 6 and 6 Plus are a thing.

00:31:56 ◼   ► I believe one of my coworkers got the exact same phone I did, the 6 with 64 gigs.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Another one just got a 6, and because she is still on a family plan with her family,

00:32:07 ◼   ► apparently her parents just went and picked up a phone for her.

00:32:10 ◼   ► She didn't even know what capacity it was.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Now this is just one example, but it's an indicative example.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Additionally, there have been a handful of people that have shown up with five C's.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Now I can't think of any developers that have, but Manson has one.

00:32:23 ◼   ► Oh yeah, that's true.

00:32:25 ◼   ► I just meant my office, but yeah, but either way, um, these are typically like project

00:32:29 ◼   ► managers or HR people and a lot of them have ended up with five C's and these are people

00:32:34 ◼   ► who work in, in an environment, in a developing company and we, we do software

00:32:38 ◼   ► consulting and yeah.

00:32:39 ◼   ► And so if there was a quote-unquote regular person that would understand why you would want a bigger phone

00:32:45 ◼   ► These are the people that that would do that, but they don't get them and I wonder I haven't again

00:32:50 ◼   ► I haven't asked but I wonder if maybe it's because you know

00:32:53 ◼   ► It's hard to justify getting a hundred or two hundred or three hundred or shoot seven hundred dollar iPhone

00:32:59 ◼   ► over this equally pretty looking

00:33:02 ◼   ► Android phone that's like either free or a hundred bucks or whatever the case may be and heck now that I'm thinking of it

00:33:09 ◼   ► But pretty much Aaron's entire family is all on Android, generally speaking, not exclusively,

00:33:16 ◼   ► but generally speaking, because those phones were considerably cheaper than iPhones.

00:33:20 ◼   ► And I think that plays a much bigger role for your average consumer.

00:33:25 ◼   ► That being said, I agree with you that if somebody wanted to upgrade at all, or was

00:33:31 ◼   ► at all privy to the fact that 16 gigs is not a lot, they are absolutely, without a shadow

00:33:36 ◼   ► of a doubt, going to get a 64 gig phone.

00:33:39 ◼   ► The 5C is pretty awesome though, like in terms, like not in terms, we know what's wrong with

00:33:42 ◼   ► it, right?

00:33:43 ◼   ► But it comes in colors, which is just huge.

00:33:46 ◼   ► And it's really comfortable because the reason Manton got one, I assume is because it's just,

00:33:49 ◼   ► it's nicer to hold.

00:33:50 ◼   ► Like it's, if they had made, for example, a new low end, uh, iPad mini plastic color

00:33:57 ◼   ► back a six or a seven instead of an a five, same price point, that would just be a better

00:34:04 ◼   ► product all around.

00:34:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:06 ◼   ► you can't underestimate the attractiveness.

00:34:09 ◼   ► If you don't make it incredibly crippled,

00:34:11 ◼   ► like give it eight gigabytes or something, 5C,

00:34:13 ◼   ► that plastic is durable, it's attractive,

00:34:17 ◼   ► it's comfortable, it's cheap.

00:34:19 ◼   ► If you're gonna give a little iPad to a kid,

00:34:21 ◼   ► it comes in colors.

00:34:22 ◼   ► These are all big selling points that are easy.

00:34:24 ◼   ► It's like right, they're right in front of Apple

00:34:26 ◼   ► for it to grab.

00:34:27 ◼   ► And because the 5C didn't do as well as they hoped,

00:34:30 ◼   ► as far as we can tell, like it was hobbled by other reasons,

00:34:33 ◼   ► by the fact that it was alongside the much more desirable,

00:34:35 ◼   ► what was it, the 5S that it came with?

00:34:38 ◼   ► And so it was always the big end,

00:34:40 ◼   ► the high end model was gonna be,

00:34:41 ◼   ► and they kind of crippled it by, you know,

00:34:42 ◼   ► giving it not so great specs and not really improving it.

00:34:45 ◼   ► It was just like the 5 in a different case,

00:34:47 ◼   ► maybe with a slightly bigger battery.

00:34:49 ◼   ► I just wish they would make dedicated products

00:34:54 ◼   ► for lower price points instead of just having this cascade.

00:34:56 ◼   ► And the other thing with the storage, the RAM,

00:35:00 ◼   ► like pick any spec you want

00:35:01 ◼   ► that we complain about all the time.

00:35:03 ◼   ► This has been true of Apple for so long,

00:35:05 ◼   ► for like, you know, since the 90s,

00:35:07 ◼   ► since even before Steve Jobs came back,

00:35:10 ◼   ► Apple as a company will get it into its head

00:35:12 ◼   ► that like some number is the correct number for some spec.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Whether it's gonna be like every machine

00:35:18 ◼   ► has four megabytes of RAM, like I'm going way back here,

00:35:21 ◼   ► and it'll have four megabytes of RAM and it will be fine.

00:35:24 ◼   ► And then the next year, the bottom line,

00:35:26 ◼   ► we'll have four megabytes of RAM

00:35:27 ◼   ► and you'll be looking around and go,

00:35:28 ◼   ► well, everyone else doesn't have four megabytes

00:35:29 ◼   ► at the bottom.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And the next year will come and the bottom line

00:35:31 ◼   ► will have four megabytes of RAM.

00:35:32 ◼   ► You're like, okay, is Apple not looking

00:35:34 ◼   ► at the rest of the world?

00:35:35 ◼   ► nobody ships four megabytes of RAM anymore.

00:35:36 ◼   ► I'm like, it goes through this.

00:35:38 ◼   ► And until it just seems insane,

00:35:40 ◼   ► you're like surely this year they'll bump it.

00:35:41 ◼   ► And then finally they bump it.

00:35:43 ◼   ► It's been that way, you know,

00:35:44 ◼   ► Apple is actually in a good cycle with the RAM now.

00:35:46 ◼   ► They're not really skimping.

00:35:47 ◼   ► They finally bumped everyone up to 16,

00:35:49 ◼   ► but now it's a flash storage.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Someone got it into their head that, you know,

00:35:53 ◼   ► 16 gigs is perfectly good for the low end model,

00:35:56 ◼   ► but just keep doing that year after year after year,

00:35:58 ◼   ► 16, 16, 16, the rest of the world is like,

00:36:00 ◼   ► are you kidding?

00:36:01 ◼   ► Now, first of all, they all have SIM slots and everything,

00:36:03 ◼   ► or not sim slots, SD card slots,

00:36:05 ◼   ► and stuff on the other side of the fence.

00:36:06 ◼   ► So at the very least, those people buy something,

00:36:08 ◼   ► you just buy some cheap and probably slow

00:36:10 ◼   ► and probably crappy and whatever,

00:36:11 ◼   ► complain about your SD cards.

00:36:13 ◼   ► At least they have, you know,

00:36:14 ◼   ► buy a faster SD card if they wanna spend the money.

00:36:16 ◼   ► They have the option to at least upgrade it.

00:36:18 ◼   ► Apple's things are completely sealed up

00:36:19 ◼   ► and they just keep going with 16.

00:36:21 ◼   ► And so now we're at like the tail end of the 16th cycle

00:36:23 ◼   ► where it's just crazy that they're doing this.

00:36:25 ◼   ► It's just, it's hurting everybody.

00:36:27 ◼   ► And if you want to pick out something to blame

00:36:30 ◼   ► on the stereotypical Tim Cook, you know, character attributes,

00:36:34 ◼   ► the fact that he's an operations guy and wants to like, you know,

00:36:37 ◼   ► make all the numbers add up in the columns and, you know,

00:36:41 ◼   ► make sure that he's getting the best price for the best parts

00:36:44 ◼   ► and the most efficiencies and everything.

00:36:46 ◼   ► This would be something you could blame on on that instinct,

00:36:50 ◼   ► whether it's him or not, whether it's other people.

00:36:52 ◼   ► It's just like because, again, this type of thing has been going on Apple

00:36:55 ◼   ► for a really long time.

00:36:56 ◼   ► It happened under Steve Jobs. It happened before Steve Jobs came back.

00:36:59 ◼   ► but it is exactly in line with his expertise

00:37:04 ◼   ► at keeping costs down and profit margins high.

00:37:09 ◼   ► But I think it's over the line,

00:37:11 ◼   ► and it's really, like Marco said, it's hurting Apple,

00:37:14 ◼   ► it's hurting customers, it's not a good call.

00:37:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it isn't, again, 16 is not the minimum.

00:37:20 ◼   ► 16 is the lowest that they do on new devices.

00:37:23 ◼   ► They will sell old devices with eight still.

00:37:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, but I'm talking about

00:37:27 ◼   ► the flagship product, the fact that you can get

00:37:29 ◼   ► their flagship product with 16,

00:37:30 ◼   ► and you could get their flagship product with 16 last year,

00:37:32 ◼   ► and you could get their flagship.

00:37:34 ◼   ► Like, you know, the world moves on.

00:37:36 ◼   ► Prices go down, like, you're just hurting yourself.

00:37:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it has to impact Tim's customer sat.

00:37:43 ◼   ► You have to imagine that, you know,

00:37:46 ◼   ► the experience of using a memory constrained Mac

00:37:49 ◼   ► or a space constrained iOS device,

00:37:53 ◼   ► it is a worse experience.

00:37:54 ◼   ► It has to be causing increased load at the Genius Bar.

00:37:57 ◼   ► It is definitely causing worse experiences

00:37:59 ◼   ► and people to have worse opinions of their Apple products

00:38:02 ◼   ► when they run into constant disk space issues

00:38:04 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:38:05 ◼   ► It is affecting them in other ways.

00:38:07 ◼   ► That's why I think this is long term.

00:38:09 ◼   ► I think it's a bad move.

00:38:10 ◼   ► - I think they'll learn from this.

00:38:11 ◼   ► This was in the notes for a couple weeks now,

00:38:13 ◼   ► but we didn't talk about the iOS 8 adoption.

00:38:15 ◼   ► And so they had to have, speaking of this presentation

00:38:17 ◼   ► that we've kind of wandered off from here,

00:38:19 ◼   ► they have the slide up, they had to,

00:38:20 ◼   ► oh, look at iOS 8 adoption.

00:38:22 ◼   ► And to make the typical super impressive slide,

00:38:24 ◼   ► they had to combine iOS 8 and iOS 7.

00:38:27 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:38:29 ◼   ► Like so they could show a big number,

00:38:31 ◼   ► because iOS 8 adoption is slower.

00:38:33 ◼   ► And now granted, the decision to go with the 16s

00:38:35 ◼   ► was probably made a year or two ago.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Like it's ancient history now.

00:38:38 ◼   ► But the one ramification that I think Apple can clearly see

00:38:42 ◼   ► is iOS 8 adoption is slower.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Is it because of the bugs?

00:38:46 ◼   ► Yeah, part of it's because of the bugs.

00:38:47 ◼   ► Is storage part of it?

00:38:48 ◼   ► Like in their big meeting where they talk about

00:38:50 ◼   ► why is iOS 8 adoption slow?

00:38:51 ◼   ► One of the points that has to come up is the storage thing.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And one solution is that, oh, we need a smarter installer.

00:38:56 ◼   ► It takes a less room.

00:38:56 ◼   ► But the other solution is stop shipping 16 gigs

00:38:59 ◼   ► as the low end storage size for years and years.

00:39:02 ◼   ► So hopefully Apple being the learning machine

00:39:06 ◼   ► that we think it is will come out of this and say,

00:39:08 ◼   ► we have made a misjudgment when we're planning

00:39:10 ◼   ► for the iPhone 8.

00:39:12 ◼   ► We need to not be ridiculous with the flash sizes.

00:39:17 ◼   ► - All right, so we wandered off a bit,

00:39:19 ◼   ► but let's get a summary of the iPad minis

00:39:23 ◼   ► and iPads Mini, whatever, and then let's talk iPad Airs.

00:39:28 ◼   ► So it seems clear to me that unless you are in dire need

00:39:32 ◼   ► of Touch ID on all your devices, I see no point

00:39:36 ◼   ► in spending an extra $100 in getting an iPad Mini 3.

00:39:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just agree with that.

00:39:43 ◼   ► I know the pricing is ridiculous.

00:39:44 ◼   ► I know that it is a ridiculous premium

00:39:46 ◼   ► for like if you wanna look like how much does it cost

00:39:50 ◼   ► to put Touch ID sensor or whatever,

00:39:51 ◼   ► but it's no more ridiculous than paying an extra $100

00:39:54 ◼   ► for an extra 16 gigs of flash,

00:39:55 ◼   ► in terms of like the physics

00:39:57 ◼   ► and the cost of materials type thing.

00:39:59 ◼   ► It's exactly as ridiculous, right?

00:40:01 ◼   ► But Touch ID is a tangible benefit.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Once you have a device with Touch ID,

00:40:06 ◼   ► you don't want one without it.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And having a mixed household with some Touch,

00:40:09 ◼   ► or a mixed personal repertoire of devices

00:40:12 ◼   ► that mostly have Touch ID, but then the iPad doesn't,

00:40:15 ◼   ► this is a case where I think much more so than the storage.

00:40:19 ◼   ► they are charging $100 for a benefit

00:40:21 ◼   ► that they think is worth $100 to some people.

00:40:24 ◼   ► And I think they're closer to being right

00:40:25 ◼   ► that this benefit is worth $100

00:40:27 ◼   ► than an extra 16 gigs of flash or something.

00:40:29 ◼   ► - Well, and they also had to overcome the problem

00:40:31 ◼   ► they introduced last year when the iPad Air

00:40:34 ◼   ► and Retina Mini came out,

00:40:36 ◼   ► which was that the Retina Air and the Mini,

00:40:39 ◼   ► the Air is supposed to be the higher end device,

00:40:41 ◼   ► but they were very, very similar

00:40:43 ◼   ► because they both had the A7.

00:40:45 ◼   ► They both had the same system on a chip.

00:40:48 ◼   ► the Air was something like 5% faster,

00:40:50 ◼   ► but otherwise, you know, it was minimal.

00:40:52 ◼   ► And so the Mini became just as high-end of a device

00:40:56 ◼   ► as the Air did.

00:40:57 ◼   ► That was the fluke last year,

00:40:59 ◼   ► where suddenly the Mini became high-end.

00:41:02 ◼   ► - That last year's Mini was a good deal,

00:41:04 ◼   ► relatively speaking.

00:41:05 ◼   ► - Exactly, and so this year,

00:41:07 ◼   ► they basically upgraded the Air and not the Mini

00:41:09 ◼   ► to create that gap again.

00:41:11 ◼   ► Again, it's all about ASP,

00:41:12 ◼   ► it's all about the average selling price.

00:41:13 ◼   ► Like, they wanna push people who want the best

00:41:17 ◼   ► to not say, well, the iPad mini is just as good

00:41:20 ◼   ► and it's smaller, so I want that and it's cheaper.

00:41:22 ◼   ► No, if you want the best, Apple wants you to go

00:41:25 ◼   ► all the way to the top of the line

00:41:26 ◼   ► and spend that money with that profit margin.

00:41:29 ◼   ► I can't blame them, I mean, that's business.

00:41:31 ◼   ► I'm not saying they're evil for doing this.

00:41:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, but what I'm saying,

00:41:34 ◼   ► I think of the mini with Touch ID,

00:41:36 ◼   ► whatever the hell number that is, three,

00:41:38 ◼   ► it's not a bad product.

00:41:40 ◼   ► Relatively speaking, we're like,

00:41:41 ◼   ► oh, they just added this tiny thing

00:41:43 ◼   ► and they added the price.

00:41:44 ◼   ► That's true, but at least this one gives you

00:41:46 ◼   ► like a real tangible benefit.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Like that's what they charge money for essentially.

00:41:52 ◼   ► It's something you can,

00:41:54 ◼   ► I think it's something that people appreciate more.

00:41:57 ◼   ► It's not worth $100 obviously.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Here's the deal, if you were talking to somebody

00:42:01 ◼   ► and they're trying to decide which iPad mini they should get,

00:42:03 ◼   ► you basically just go right for their budget.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Say, can you afford an extra 100 bucks

00:42:07 ◼   ► to have this touch thing?

00:42:08 ◼   ► And if you're like, well, it looks neat, but I don't know.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Then obviously you go for the cheaper model.

00:42:12 ◼   ► But if you happen, if $100 here or there

00:42:14 ◼   ► is not gonna break the bank,

00:42:16 ◼   ► and they're willing to spend that amount of money,

00:42:17 ◼   ► I'm not gonna say, even though you can afford it,

00:42:20 ◼   ► even though you've got the money in your pocket right now

00:42:22 ◼   ► and could buy that one, you shouldn't,

00:42:23 ◼   ► because it's not worth it,

00:42:24 ◼   ► because a Touch ID sensor is not worth $100.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Well, neither is 16 gigs of RAM, or flash,

00:42:28 ◼   ► but you tell people to do it anyways,

00:42:30 ◼   ► like, it will just make your life easier,

00:42:32 ◼   ► and if you can afford it, then go for it.

00:42:35 ◼   ► - Okay, so I can get behind that assessment.

00:42:37 ◼   ► The reason, though, that I'm hemming and hawing about,

00:42:39 ◼   ► or I guess even saying no, is for me,

00:42:42 ◼   ► And I love my iPad Mini 2.

00:42:45 ◼   ► I had to think about that really hard.

00:42:47 ◼   ► I love my iPad Mini 2, and it does not have Touch ID.

00:42:50 ◼   ► And honestly, the only time I really miss Touch ID

00:42:53 ◼   ► isn't when I'm unlocking the device,

00:42:55 ◼   ► but is instead when I'm using one password.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Because I have a reasonably long password,

00:43:00 ◼   ► and typing that constantly is a real pain in the butt.

00:43:03 ◼   ► And so I agree with what you said,

00:43:05 ◼   ► that hey, if you can afford that $100,

00:43:07 ◼   ► heck yes, absolutely go ahead and spend it.

00:43:10 ◼   ► But to me, I don't view it as a do or die feature

00:43:14 ◼   ► like say a retina screen was.

00:43:17 ◼   ► - Well, it depends on how you use your mini.

00:43:18 ◼   ► If you're using it kind of like a phablet

00:43:20 ◼   ► where you're carrying it around with you,

00:43:21 ◼   ► then like, because you know, for the unlocking and unlocking

00:43:24 ◼   ► obviously with a phone you do it all the time,

00:43:25 ◼   ► you wanna have the passcode, you wanna have the security.

00:43:28 ◼   ► But if your iPad never leaves your house,

00:43:30 ◼   ► maybe you don't even need it locked

00:43:32 ◼   ► and then it comes down to like touch ID,

00:43:33 ◼   ► which I was gonna bring it before,

00:43:34 ◼   ► like yeah, iOS 8 suddenly makes touch ID

00:43:36 ◼   ► a much more useful thing than it was with iOS 7

00:43:38 ◼   ► because now, you know, one password and type,

00:43:41 ◼   ► even if you never leave your house with it,

00:43:42 ◼   ► that can be useful.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Someone on Twitter has just mentioned that,

00:43:46 ◼   ► and a lot of people have brought this up,

00:43:47 ◼   ► I think I saw it on during Fireball as well, like,

00:43:50 ◼   ► well, Apple is using such a huge portion of the world's,

00:43:54 ◼   ► whatever it is, whether it's the flash memory

00:43:57 ◼   ► or RAM or whatever, and that's why, you know,

00:43:59 ◼   ► the iPhone 6 only has one gig of RAM,

00:44:00 ◼   ► or that's why they only put 16 gigs of flash or whatever.

00:44:04 ◼   ► And I think that's mostly BS,

00:44:06 ◼   ► because supply and demand are in a relationship

00:44:08 ◼   ► with each other, Apple plans years and years ahead.

00:44:11 ◼   ► They pay for the capacity they need.

00:44:13 ◼   ► They pay for people to build factories, to add tooling.

00:44:18 ◼   ► Like if someone is there to buy it, it will work it out.

00:44:24 ◼   ► It's economic.

00:44:25 ◼   ► It's not like, well, it's not like someone's

00:44:27 ◼   ► picking coconuts.

00:44:28 ◼   ► Like, well, we're all out of coconuts

00:44:29 ◼   ► and we can't plant anymore.

00:44:30 ◼   ► Like if there's a demand, someone

00:44:36 ◼   ► provide the supply and Apple in this case and in all cases is so willing to

00:44:41 ◼   ► sink huge amounts of capital upfront to get the capacity to manufacture whatever

00:44:45 ◼   ► it is they need at the volumes they need so I don't believe that supply is the

00:44:49 ◼   ► problem because as far as I know there is no like natural resource or climate

00:44:53 ◼   ► related issue or whatever that is like capping the amount of available you know

00:44:58 ◼   ► NAND capacity in the world other than the thing that's capping it is how what

00:45:03 ◼   ► the orders were put in two, three, or four years ago whenever the current could be, you

00:45:07 ◼   ► know what I mean?

00:45:08 ◼   ► There's a lead time and everything, but there are inputs into the system, and Apple's such

00:45:11 ◼   ► a huge input that if it wanted to plan for, say, three years from now, all of our devices

00:45:17 ◼   ► are going to have double the flash RAM.

00:45:20 ◼   ► They would start spending the money now, it would show up on their balance sheet, and

00:45:23 ◼   ► eventually the supply would be there for them.

00:45:24 ◼   ► So I still feel like this is a decision Apple makes about what they want.

00:45:28 ◼   ► It's not like, "Well, we'd love to put more flash in there, but it's just not available

00:45:32 ◼   ► for us."

00:45:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, all right, Mark, why don't you tell us

00:45:36 ◼   ► about something else that's really cool.

00:45:38 ◼   ► - I would love to, we got a new sponsor this week.

00:45:40 ◼   ► - All right.

00:45:41 ◼   ► - It's from MailChimp, but the sponsorship

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00:46:07 ◼   ► Plus they give you all these reports,

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00:46:45 ◼   ► you have to get those to somebody.

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00:48:18 ◼   ► - All right, so we should probably talk

00:48:19 ◼   ► about the iPad Air 2.

00:48:21 ◼   ► And as someone who converted from a large iPad

00:48:25 ◼   ► to a mini iPad.

00:48:28 ◼   ► To be honest, I didn't find this that terribly exciting.

00:48:32 ◼   ► However, the thing I thought most interesting,

00:48:35 ◼   ► or the two things I thought most interesting,

00:48:37 ◼   ► were the loss of the rotation lock,

00:48:41 ◼   ► or I guess it could also be a mute switch,

00:48:43 ◼   ► and the Apple SIM,

00:48:45 ◼   ► which wasn't even brought up during the keynote.

00:48:47 ◼   ► And I actually think that's the most intriguing to me.

00:48:50 ◼   ► As it turns out, and I've talked about it a lot in the past,

00:48:53 ◼   ► I have a T-Mobile SIM for my iPad Mini 2.

00:48:57 ◼   ► And it's actually-- it came with a Verizon SIM.

00:49:00 ◼   ► And I flip SIMs back and forth on a surprising regular basis

00:49:04 ◼   ► for a device that I very rarely pay for cellular data on.

00:49:08 ◼   ► And I really like being able to do that.

00:49:12 ◼   ► Now unfortunately, in this case, Verizon

00:49:13 ◼   ► isn't part of this Apple SIM agreement.

00:49:16 ◼   ► And it is fairly US-centric.

00:49:17 ◼   ► I think, what is it, EE?

00:49:19 ◼   ► That has it in the UK, I believe?

00:49:20 ◼   ► - It's pronounced E.

00:49:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:23 ◼   ► - So yeah, so E has it in e.co.uk.

00:49:27 ◼   ► But anyway, so--

00:49:28 ◼   ► - Hava.

00:49:29 ◼   ► - I think it's a clever, clever, clever idea

00:49:31 ◼   ► and I really like the idea of it

00:49:34 ◼   ► just as much as I dislike the idea

00:49:36 ◼   ► of losing the rotation lock

00:49:38 ◼   ► because I use that constantly on my iPad.

00:49:41 ◼   ► (crickets chirping)

00:49:44 ◼   ► All right, good talk.

00:49:45 ◼   ► Glad everyone agrees.

00:49:46 ◼   ► - Honestly, I hardly ever use my iPad anymore

00:49:48 ◼   ► so I have no opinion of this at all.

00:49:50 ◼   ► Like I'm not gonna get any of these and yeah.

00:49:53 ◼   ► I see why people like the iPad, but I don't.

00:49:56 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:49:57 ◼   ► - John.

00:49:59 ◼   ► - I like the big one.

00:50:00 ◼   ► I'm due to replace my iPad 3 eventually.

00:50:03 ◼   ► It's not really, I have so many other issues,

00:50:06 ◼   ► the hardware issues that I'm not like dying to get one,

00:50:08 ◼   ► but yeah, like it looks good.

00:50:11 ◼   ► And, you know, we talked in past shows

00:50:13 ◼   ► that like about Apple being,

00:50:15 ◼   ► I'm more convinced than ever that Apple

00:50:18 ◼   ► is tied to numbers for things like battery life.

00:50:21 ◼   ► Like why did they make it a millimeter thinner

00:50:23 ◼   ► and give me more battery life?

00:50:24 ◼   ► That it's like they have a target battery life

00:50:27 ◼   ► and they want it to be thinner.

00:50:28 ◼   ► And if they could reach the target battery life

00:50:30 ◼   ► while also making it thinner, then that's what they do.

00:50:32 ◼   ► And that's, that is basically their very simple rule set.

00:50:34 ◼   ► So what's the target battery life for an iPad?

00:50:36 ◼   ► 10 hours.

00:50:37 ◼   ► Can you hit 10 hours and make it thinner?

00:50:39 ◼   ► Yes, we can.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Done.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Like, I don't think there's a lot of hemming and hawing.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Well, we can get 12 hours if we make it,

00:50:44 ◼   ► if we keep it the same thickness.

00:50:45 ◼   ► No, the rule is hit the target,

00:50:48 ◼   ► Make it thinner. Can you do both?

00:50:49 ◼   ► You can, good job, bonuses all around.

00:50:52 ◼   ► So 10 hours.

00:50:53 ◼   ► I guess it's fine.

00:50:55 ◼   ► I can't even imagine how thin that thing is

00:50:56 ◼   ► compared to my iPad 3.

00:50:58 ◼   ► So I have to go to the store and try not to touch them.

00:51:02 ◼   ► I'm still kind of annoyed by the iPad Air's border

00:51:05 ◼   ► being thinner because I always feel,

00:51:08 ◼   ► that's one of the reasons I hate the mini.

00:51:09 ◼   ► I hate the thumb rejection crap.

00:51:12 ◼   ► And I always feel like my finger,

00:51:14 ◼   ► I always feel like I can't get a secure grip on it

00:51:16 ◼   ► without accidentally touching the screen.

00:51:17 ◼   ► and they made the borders thinner with the Air

00:51:19 ◼   ► and they're still thinner and I just,

00:51:21 ◼   ► I think it will make the device

00:51:22 ◼   ► a little bit less comfortable for me.

00:51:23 ◼   ► But anyway, eventually I'll get one.

00:51:24 ◼   ► It's gonna be awesomely faster than my iPad 3.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Screen's better, lower glare, thumbs up,

00:51:29 ◼   ► I'm totally gonna get one.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Unless by the time I buy one,

00:51:32 ◼   ► they introduce an iPad Pro or something.

00:51:35 ◼   ► - All right, so quick follow on question to that.

00:51:38 ◼   ► Rick, do you know if you will get another LTE iPad

00:51:42 ◼   ► and does that relate to whether or not

00:51:44 ◼   ► you're going to be getting an iPhone?

00:51:46 ◼   ► I will get another LTE one.

00:51:47 ◼   ► All my iPads have been cellular,

00:51:49 ◼   ► and I use that capacity, and I like it.

00:51:51 ◼   ► So yes, I will pay whatever the insane, ridiculous prices

00:51:54 ◼   ► that they charge for the super duper, top of the line LTE.

00:51:58 ◼   ► Like that's the reason, you know, keep this iPad 3.

00:51:59 ◼   ► I paid, I can't even remember how much I paid for it,

00:52:01 ◼   ► but it was a lot.

00:52:02 ◼   ► - $900.

00:52:03 ◼   ► - Whatever it was, it was like a computer's worth.

00:52:05 ◼   ► And so I'll get my money's worth out of it.

00:52:06 ◼   ► But yeah, I always buy it with cellular,

00:52:07 ◼   ► 'cause I use it when I'm on vacation.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Like I basically, I don't bring computers on vacation.

00:52:11 ◼   ► I bring a, you know, cellular iPad.

00:52:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is my first cellular iPad.

00:52:15 ◼   ► my third iPad, but my first cellular one.

00:52:18 ◼   ► And I always thought people were crazy

00:52:20 ◼   ► when they said, "Oh, get the cellular one."

00:52:22 ◼   ► But oh my goodness, I'm so glad I did.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Now part of that probably relates to

00:52:26 ◼   ► me not being able to tether to my phone

00:52:28 ◼   ► because I'm still grandfathered on the AT&T Unlimited plan.

00:52:31 ◼   ► But I still love having an LTE iPad.

00:52:35 ◼   ► And I suspect even if I could tether,

00:52:36 ◼   ► I would still get one.

00:52:38 ◼   ► All right, anything else on the iPad hardware?

00:52:41 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I mean, they did spend a lot of time in the presentation

00:52:45 ◼   ► kind of overdoing the thinness thing.

00:52:47 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:52:48 ◼   ► - But again, I think that is kind of their big

00:52:51 ◼   ► marketing point for the iPad Air too,

00:52:53 ◼   ► because there aren't that many more changes

00:52:56 ◼   ► that would be very marketable to a mass audience.

00:52:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I don't oppose that strategy.

00:52:59 ◼   ► Like I did that post on Hypercritical a while back

00:53:02 ◼   ► about the thinness thing.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Like, it's a reasonable strategy,

00:53:05 ◼   ► but it's just, it's so clear now that like, I mean,

00:53:07 ◼   ► and I think it's so much more reasonable with the iPad

00:53:08 ◼   ► than the phone even, because like the iPad battery,

00:53:11 ◼   ► like no one is like, oh, my iPad,

00:53:13 ◼   ► My full-size iPad is constantly running out of battery.

00:53:15 ◼   ► Like 10 hours is a reasonable target to hit

00:53:18 ◼   ► and it's an honest 10 hours and it's fine.

00:53:20 ◼   ► Whereas the iPhone, you're like,

00:53:22 ◼   ► well, the iPhone battery life is so incredibly variable.

00:53:26 ◼   ► If you're in an area with low signal

00:53:27 ◼   ► and the thing is constantly searching and everything,

00:53:28 ◼   ► it just kills your battery life

00:53:30 ◼   ► and then you do not wanna be stranded without a phone.

00:53:32 ◼   ► Whereas the iPad, 10 hours, real solid 10 hours,

00:53:37 ◼   ► you're not using it as your lifeline

00:53:38 ◼   ► to communicate with people and it's probably fine.

00:53:41 ◼   ► So I actually, I approve of the strategy.

00:53:43 ◼   ► It's just that like every time they bring up that 10 hour

00:53:45 ◼   ► thing, keep reemphasizing it.

00:53:46 ◼   ► It's so clear that that's what their requirements are.

00:53:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, the other thing I wanted to briefly mention

00:53:52 ◼   ► before we give Marco his two hours in the sun

00:53:55 ◼   ► to talk about his stupid new computer.

00:53:57 ◼   ► Did you guys feel like Schiller was phoning it in

00:54:01 ◼   ► or was it just me?

00:54:02 ◼   ► - You know, other people said that.

00:54:03 ◼   ► I re-watched it.

00:54:04 ◼   ► I didn't think it was anything wrong.

00:54:05 ◼   ► I mean, Schiller's always a little bit low key.

00:54:06 ◼   ► Like-- - That's what he's like.

00:54:08 ◼   ► That's Schiller.

00:54:09 ◼   ► I think that I think he was he was the way he always is. All right. I mean, I felt like he was

00:54:14 ◼   ► He's always reserved. You're absolutely right about that. But I felt like he was a little kind of going through the motions

00:54:20 ◼   ► Sometimes he seems distracted because but it's like I don't know what he's distracted by

00:54:24 ◼   ► You used to think he'd be distracted by the fear of steve job's laser eyes off stage staring at the back of his head

00:54:29 ◼   ► If he's doing something wrong, but his days tim is all having a cup of coffee probably so

00:54:33 ◼   ► Fair enough. All right, let's uh, knock out one more

00:54:38 ◼   ► a sponsor and then let's have Marco go on for two hours.

00:54:42 ◼   ► - That sounds great.

00:54:43 ◼   ► - I'm not sure it sounds great.

00:54:45 ◼   ► - Honestly, I'm probably not gonna go,

00:54:46 ◼   ► I'm not gonna talk that much about it anyway.

00:54:47 ◼   ► - I got my review to get to.

00:54:48 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:54:49 ◼   ► All right, so our last sponsor is Igloo.

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00:55:35 ◼   ► - Igloo has responsive mobile design,

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00:55:46 ◼   ► Have you seen the square Blackberry?

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00:55:52 ◼   ► - It looks interesting on the internet.

00:55:53 ◼   ► So anyway, if you are one of the two people

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00:56:04 ◼   ► Igloo even works on your new plus sized iPhone 6 Plus

00:56:07 ◼   ► right from the very start.

00:56:09 ◼   ► You can review a document, you can post a project update,

00:56:12 ◼   ► you can change admin settings,

00:56:13 ◼   ► you can talk about how that U2 album snuck onto

00:56:16 ◼   ► your iTunes library all from your phone,

00:56:19 ◼   ► even if that phone is a Blackberry.

00:56:21 ◼   ► Plus when you design your Igloo,

00:56:22 ◼   ► any change you make to the look and feel

00:56:24 ◼   ► carries across all of these devices.

00:56:26 ◼   ► It is very responsive and has the mobile in mind

00:56:29 ◼   ► right from the start.

00:56:30 ◼   ► Igloo's file preview engine is also fully HTML5 compatible,

00:56:34 ◼   ► None of these flash previewers or anything.

00:56:36 ◼   ► So if one of your coworkers uploads a proposal

00:56:38 ◼   ► or a JavaScript file, you can preview in line,

00:56:40 ◼   ► you can add comments, you can upload new versions,

00:56:42 ◼   ► or assign action items right from your phone.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Igloo's also part of the Gartner Magic Quadrant,

00:56:48 ◼   ► which is very important for Enterprise.

00:56:50 ◼   ► So if you work in Enterprise,

00:56:52 ◼   ► and your bosses read the Gartner Magic Quadrant report,

00:56:55 ◼   ► you can tell them that Igloo is adequately Enterprise,

00:56:58 ◼   ► because they're in the Magic Quadrant report.

00:57:00 ◼   ► They've been there for,

00:57:01 ◼   ► they're now there for the sixth consecutive year,

00:57:04 ◼   ► alongside tech giants like Microsoft and IBM

00:57:06 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:57:07 ◼   ► In a report that values the size of the vendor,

00:57:09 ◼   ► which in Gartner terms means viability,

00:57:11 ◼   ► Aloo is praised for their responsiveness

00:57:13 ◼   ► and customer experience.

00:57:16 ◼   ► Really, and let me see, they have a quote here.

00:57:19 ◼   ► From Gartner's profile of Aloo, this is what it says.

00:57:21 ◼   ► Feedback from Aloo's reference customers

00:57:23 ◼   ► was consistently positive.

00:57:24 ◼   ► They praised the product's quick deployment,

00:57:26 ◼   ► configuration, and customization flexibility

00:57:28 ◼   ► with self-service options for non-technical users,

00:57:30 ◼   ► control over branding and information organization,

00:57:32 ◼   ► and ease of use.

00:57:33 ◼   ► They also praised the responsiveness

00:57:35 ◼   ► of Igloo as an organization.

00:57:36 ◼   ► So anyway, if your company has a legacy internet

00:57:38 ◼   ► built on SharePoint or other old portal technology,

00:57:41 ◼   ► and this is not the fun kind of portal,

00:57:42 ◼   ► but the game, this is like the old kind of portal,

00:57:44 ◼   ► like Yahoo, you should give Igloo a try.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Igloo is free to use for groups of up to 10 people.

00:57:50 ◼   ► You can sign up at igloosoftware.com/atp.

00:57:54 ◼   ► Once again, go to igloosoftware.com/atp.

00:57:58 ◼   ► So thanks a lot to Igloo for sponsoring our show.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Once again, they've been a long time friend

00:58:02 ◼   ► and support of our show.

00:58:04 ◼   ► - So I completely forgot.

00:58:05 ◼   ► I asked you, Jon, and then you effectively dodged.

00:58:08 ◼   ► There was no iPod Touch at this event.

00:58:11 ◼   ► We have no indication that an iPod Touch is coming.

00:58:14 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, the iPod exists.

00:58:15 ◼   ► - So yeah, the iPod's still a thing.

00:58:17 ◼   ► So what is your plan with regard to smaller

00:58:20 ◼   ► than iPad mobile devices from here on out?

00:58:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, probably gonna get an iPhone.

00:58:26 ◼   ► I've had a loner iPhone for a little while.

00:58:29 ◼   ► Apple sent one because they took a lot of the functionality,

00:58:31 ◼   ► like the phone integration with Yosemite,

00:58:34 ◼   ► they took that out of the iOS 8 builds that were out there.

00:58:37 ◼   ► So if you wanted to test it with,

00:58:39 ◼   ► if you had iOS 8 GM and you couldn't use a lot

00:58:43 ◼   ► of these features, you needed 8.1.

00:58:44 ◼   ► So they sent me an iPhone 6 with 8.1 and I was using that.

00:58:49 ◼   ► And as soon as I got it,

00:58:52 ◼   ► I've been using it as my main actual phone.

00:58:54 ◼   ► So it's giving me a feel for what it's gonna be like.

00:58:57 ◼   ► You know, like I said, I'll probably eventually get one.

00:58:59 ◼   ► There's no iPad, what choice do I have?

00:59:00 ◼   ► There's nothing, there's no other choice for me to get.

00:59:03 ◼   ► Then I can, I'm not, I can't use that iPod touch anymore.

00:59:05 ◼   ► And I know you guys went through all this stuff

00:59:06 ◼   ► with your iPhone six a while ago.

00:59:08 ◼   ► There's just one thing that I would add

00:59:09 ◼   ► into the mix of all the things you talked about

00:59:11 ◼   ► about the screen size and all that stuff

00:59:13 ◼   ► is that the thing that surprised me most

00:59:14 ◼   ► even after hearing all your issues with the iPhone six

00:59:18 ◼   ► was how much heavier it feels than my iPod touch.

00:59:21 ◼   ► I know it is heavier.

00:59:22 ◼   ► I don't know how much heavier it is.

00:59:24 ◼   ► Can't be that much heavier.

00:59:25 ◼   ► I mean, they're both really light devices, but

00:59:26 ◼   ► and I think my RSI is a factor here as well.

00:59:28 ◼   ► So I'm super sensitive to changes in effort required from like, you know fingers and tendons and stuff like that

00:59:33 ◼   ► But boy, it just feels like a brick. No case. I've been using it with no case since I've had it

00:59:37 ◼   ► It just feels so damn heavy

00:59:40 ◼   ► But yeah, that's not gonna have to get one. I wonder if maybe honestly maybe you should get a 5s. I

00:59:47 ◼   ► hate that thing

00:59:50 ◼   ► Wow

00:59:53 ◼   ► What do you feel like the iPhone has?

00:59:57 ◼   ► monsterably changed the way you go about your day, and I'm not patronizing you

01:00:02 ◼   ► I'm honestly asking because when I got my 3GS which admittedly was a kind of different time it

01:00:06 ◼   ► dramatically changed everything because if I didn't know where

01:00:09 ◼   ► Something was I could look at a map on my phone if I didn't know something's phone number

01:00:13 ◼   ► I could look it up like what did you keep calling it in the keynote lines your information phone or whatever it is?

01:00:18 ◼   ► Yeah, and so having an information phone just completely changed my world

01:00:23 ◼   ► Do you find that that's the case or do you find like it's whatever?

01:00:27 ◼   ► Yeah, well, you know, so I've had a surrogate information phone like

01:00:30 ◼   ► My wife I have her look things up on her information phone

01:00:34 ◼   ► We use her phone for navigation in the car

01:00:36 ◼   ► If we're you know

01:00:37 ◼   ► Like so I've had that for a while and if we're if we're somewhere and we're just waiting around and we're bored

01:00:42 ◼   ► She'll let me use her phone to read Twitter like her her Twitter and her thing assigned it to my account because she doesn't have

01:00:46 ◼   ► A Twitter account. She just reads my Twitter. So I read my Twitter on her phone. And so having this

01:00:51 ◼   ► I don't know how long have I had this like a week or I don't know that long enough

01:00:55 ◼   ► I think it's only been maybe three times when I've used it in that capacity once was when I was dropping my kids off

01:01:00 ◼   ► One of their activities on the day the Yosemite review was published and I wanted to catch up

01:01:04 ◼   ► I wanted to not fall farther behind on my Twitter

01:01:07 ◼   ► So while I was like in the waiting area dropping them off and picking them up and stuff

01:01:11 ◼   ► And then this place doesn't have Wi-Fi

01:01:14 ◼   ► I mean some of their activities have Wi-Fi in fact a lot of their activities do have Wi-Fi so I would use my iPod touch

01:01:18 ◼   ► But here I'm like, oh I can since I have my phone with me

01:01:22 ◼   ► Because I used it in the car ride over to listen to podcast I can use it to read Twitter while I wait and wait

01:01:27 ◼   ► For the kids to come right and once it at dinner with some friends

01:01:30 ◼   ► I looked up something on it, but if I hadn't I couldn't my wife was there too

01:01:33 ◼   ► I could have had her look something up on it as well. That's about it

01:01:36 ◼   ► I mean like it's all stuff

01:01:37 ◼   ► I've done before it's not it's not as mind-blowing as your experience because you were like I was never able to do this before and now

01:01:42 ◼   ► I'm able to write whereas now. It's like it's slightly more convenient

01:01:44 ◼   ► I'm mostly the most of the experience to me is getting coming to grips with this just gigantic

01:01:50 ◼   ► I know it's not even that big, but this big, heavy device and the weirdness of how it feels

01:01:56 ◼   ► and the caselessness is a thing too, because like I said, I've always had cases on my small

01:02:00 ◼   ► iOS devices. I will have a case on one, but I'm using this one without a case just because

01:02:04 ◼   ► what I'm going to do, buy a case for a loaner? That would be silly. But I really love Touch

01:02:07 ◼   ► ID. I'm such a total convert on Touch ID.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Oh, it's the best.

01:02:10 ◼   ► I've been using it on my wife's phone. Obviously, all my fingers are on her phone anyway. But

01:02:15 ◼   ► having it on your own device, I never had a lock on my iPod Touch. I put a lock on this

01:02:19 ◼   ► as soon as I got it, and I just use touch ID,

01:02:21 ◼   ► and it's just, it's amazing.

01:02:23 ◼   ► So yeah, I'll probably get an iPhone 6.

01:02:25 ◼   ► - Why don't you buy a case now,

01:02:28 ◼   ► you can return it within 14 days

01:02:30 ◼   ► if you've decided after that point

01:02:31 ◼   ► that you will not own an iPhone 6?

01:02:33 ◼   ► - No, I mean, I'm probably gonna get one.

01:02:34 ◼   ► It's just a matter of like,

01:02:35 ◼   ► just getting everything out of the way

01:02:37 ◼   ► and going through, you know, going through the whole thing

01:02:39 ◼   ► and getting my number ported over from my old crappy phone,

01:02:42 ◼   ► that's gonna be a hassle because, you know, whatever.

01:02:44 ◼   ► I don't need to get it.

01:02:46 ◼   ► Like, I wanna see what the cases are like,

01:02:48 ◼   ► I don't even know which one I want yet,

01:02:49 ◼   ► So I'll get it sorted out.

01:02:51 ◼   ► - You want the Apple leather one?

01:02:52 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:02:53 ◼   ► - Have you used your information pod at all

01:02:56 ◼   ► since you've had the review information phone?

01:02:58 ◼   ► - Oh, no, I've been intentionally avoiding it

01:03:00 ◼   ► 'cause I don't wanna switch back and forth.

01:03:02 ◼   ► I just wanna say, nope,

01:03:03 ◼   ► this is it, you gotta use the big one.

01:03:04 ◼   ► There's only like, I think one or two times

01:03:07 ◼   ► that at once I needed to use the Google Authenticator app,

01:03:10 ◼   ► which can only be on like one of your iOS devices

01:03:12 ◼   ► or some crazy rule or whatever.

01:03:13 ◼   ► 'Cause I didn't--

01:03:14 ◼   ► - Well, slow down, you're not using Authy?

01:03:16 ◼   ► - No, I use the Google one, should I be using Authy?

01:03:18 ◼   ► You should be using Authy, but anyway, carry on.

01:03:19 ◼   ► - What's better about it?

01:03:21 ◼   ► - You can have it on more than one device.

01:03:23 ◼   ► I think that it may optionally push some of the stuff

01:03:27 ◼   ► server side, which you may take issue with,

01:03:29 ◼   ► but I really like it, and it's much prettier

01:03:32 ◼   ► than the Google One was as of a year ago.

01:03:34 ◼   ► I haven't looked back since then.

01:03:35 ◼   ► - So I had to use it once for that,

01:03:37 ◼   ► and then I had to pick it up once

01:03:38 ◼   ► for something else related to, oh, ebook testing,

01:03:41 ◼   ► because when you load up iBooks on the iPhone 6,

01:03:45 ◼   ► I have my media queries treated differently for sizing,

01:03:49 ◼   ► so I needed an actual five portrait style thing,

01:03:53 ◼   ► so I needed to test that briefly.

01:03:54 ◼   ► But for the most part, I've been trying not to touch it,

01:03:56 ◼   ► 'cause I wanna be like, immerse myself in the sticks

01:03:58 ◼   ► and then go back to my little thing and see how it feels.

01:04:01 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

01:04:02 ◼   ► All right, so sorry for that quick aside.

01:04:04 ◼   ► I just wanted to find out, so.

01:04:06 ◼   ► - It's gonna be a short show.

01:04:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's gonna be a super short show.

01:04:09 ◼   ► So before we get to the review,

01:04:10 ◼   ► which is what everyone's actually waiting for,

01:04:13 ◼   ► Marco, why don't you tell me about your computer that you're going to get that I'm so enthusiastic about?

01:04:18 ◼   ► Yeah, desktop retina happened, and I'm getting it.

01:04:21 ◼   ► Well, actually that was pretty quick. That makes me more enthusiastic.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Is there any, all kidding aside, is there anything you have to add because you have been, and I've seen you, I've seen

01:04:31 ◼   ► Sean Blanc, I've seen

01:04:33 ◼   ► Jason Snell, all hemming and hawing about, "Oh, should I get the upgrade for this? Should I not get the upgrade for that?"

01:04:39 ◼   ► Is there anything you'd like to add about your strategy?

01:04:41 ◼   ► Like what did you, did you order yet?

01:04:43 ◼   ► And if so, what did you end up ordering?

01:04:45 ◼   ► - I have, I've mostly ordered through,

01:04:47 ◼   ► I'm ordering through the business rep

01:04:49 ◼   ► for the local Apple store,

01:04:51 ◼   ► because you end up getting a couple hundred bucks off.

01:04:54 ◼   ► The big reason is that because it's being used

01:04:56 ◼   ► for primarily software development

01:04:58 ◼   ► in the state of New York, it is tax free.

01:05:01 ◼   ► So that saves a few hundred more dollars.

01:05:02 ◼   ► So the total savings is something like 500 bucks

01:05:04 ◼   ► doing it this way, or even more actually.

01:05:07 ◼   ► So anyway, yeah, I got it decked out, top of the line,

01:05:10 ◼   ► everything, because it basically is as good as the Mac Pro

01:05:15 ◼   ► or better for almost everything I do.

01:05:17 ◼   ► With the one exception of handbrake video encodes,

01:05:20 ◼   ► it is 15% slower.

01:05:22 ◼   ► However, for everything else, it's 25% faster.

01:05:25 ◼   ► So it's like anything single threaded,

01:05:28 ◼   ► it's actually substantially faster.

01:05:31 ◼   ► You know, this is definitely wasteful.

01:05:33 ◼   ► I'm going to lose probably as much as I'm saving

01:05:37 ◼   ► on the sales tax on the new one if I'm gonna lose that

01:05:39 ◼   ► in value when I resell my current Mac Pro.

01:05:41 ◼   ► But I said when I was buying this Mac Pro almost a year ago,

01:05:46 ◼   ► I said, when desktop retina is possible,

01:05:50 ◼   ► I will do whatever it takes to get it.

01:05:52 ◼   ► And that's how important it is to me.

01:05:53 ◼   ► A lot of people, it isn't that important to them,

01:05:55 ◼   ► and that's fine.

01:05:56 ◼   ► Or a lot of people, they'll like it,

01:05:58 ◼   ► but they're willing to wait until they buy

01:06:01 ◼   ► their next computer two or three years from now,

01:06:02 ◼   ► and that's fine.

01:06:04 ◼   ► A lot of people are like Syracuse,

01:06:05 ◼   ► and won't buy a generation one Apple product,

01:06:07 ◼   ► and there are some benefits to that.

01:06:09 ◼   ► - What are you talking about?

01:06:10 ◼   ► I bought the very first Power Mac G5,

01:06:13 ◼   ► the highest end model.

01:06:15 ◼   ► - Recently. (laughs)

01:06:17 ◼   ► - Well, this Mac Pro was,

01:06:19 ◼   ► I guess it's not the first generation,

01:06:20 ◼   ► but it's the first generation

01:06:22 ◼   ► to have this specific CPU in it.

01:06:23 ◼   ► I mean, they didn't change the computer.

01:06:24 ◼   ► - Well, they're all that.

01:06:25 ◼   ► Every Apple computer is the first.

01:06:28 ◼   ► - I bought the top of the line blue and white G3

01:06:30 ◼   ► when it came out too.

01:06:31 ◼   ► I have no problem buying

01:06:32 ◼   ► the first generation top of the line thing.

01:06:35 ◼   ► I mean, I'm wary about it like everybody else,

01:06:36 ◼   ► but it's not like I have a religion against it.

01:06:39 ◼   ► - All right, well, anyway.

01:06:40 ◼   ► So I said I would do whatever it takes

01:06:43 ◼   ► to get retina on the desktop,

01:06:45 ◼   ► because it is that important to me.

01:06:48 ◼   ► I thought, when I bought this Mac Pro,

01:06:50 ◼   ► that it would be able to drive a retina monitor.

01:06:55 ◼   ► And it can drive 4K monitors,

01:06:58 ◼   ► and you can get the Dell 24-inch 4K monitor

01:07:02 ◼   ► and have it be roughly the right DPI to do true 2X.

01:07:07 ◼   ► You can do all of those things with it,

01:07:09 ◼   ► but it's not great.

01:07:12 ◼   ► You have a desk covered in Dell monitors,

01:07:14 ◼   ► which themselves are not amazing,

01:07:17 ◼   ► and also from what I hear,

01:07:18 ◼   ► very buggy and inconsistent in this usage.

01:07:21 ◼   ► You can do it with the Mac Pro,

01:07:23 ◼   ► but what I really wanted was a giant 27 to 30 inch monitor,

01:07:28 ◼   ► like that size class,

01:07:30 ◼   ► And 4K to do that is either everything is too big

01:07:34 ◼   ► or you do software rendering and artificial scaling

01:07:37 ◼   ► and that reduces quality.

01:07:39 ◼   ► And you might not notice it,

01:07:41 ◼   ► I don't think you'd notice it on a 5K panel

01:07:44 ◼   ► if you simulated a different mode.

01:07:46 ◼   ► On a 4K panel at 27 inches, you might notice it.

01:07:49 ◼   ► We talked about this before,

01:07:50 ◼   ► so I'm not gonna go further into it.

01:07:51 ◼   ► Anyway, I was assuming the 5K monitor

01:07:54 ◼   ► was not going to exist for the next couple of years.

01:07:57 ◼   ► That turned out to be wrong.

01:07:59 ◼   ► I was also assuming that any desktop retina monitor

01:08:02 ◼   ► I would want would be available

01:08:04 ◼   ► in some kind of external form factor,

01:08:05 ◼   ► and that would plug into my Mac Pro with no problems,

01:08:08 ◼   ► and it would work just fine.

01:08:10 ◼   ► That has been wrong so far.

01:08:11 ◼   ► There's the Dell 5K one coming out this winter.

01:08:14 ◼   ► That might do it, but we don't know yet.

01:08:17 ◼   ► And the Dell 4K ones had some issues for a while

01:08:22 ◼   ► with running on certain computers, including the Mac Pro.

01:08:25 ◼   ► Various things like enabling the MST thing.

01:08:27 ◼   ► It's complicated the way it works.

01:08:28 ◼   ► so it's kind of a hack.

01:08:29 ◼   ► 5K is even more of a hack

01:08:31 ◼   ► because it needs even more bandwidth.

01:08:33 ◼   ► It has to use two different Thunderbolt

01:08:34 ◼   ► or DisplayPort cables,

01:08:37 ◼   ► and the GPU has to be able to properly multiplex

01:08:40 ◼   ► those together into one signal for one panel.

01:08:43 ◼   ► And there's enough moving parts

01:08:46 ◼   ► or things that are kind of on the edge of standards

01:08:48 ◼   ► or not very well supported standards.

01:08:50 ◼   ► There's enough moving parts here

01:08:52 ◼   ► that I think the chances of the Dell 5K panel

01:08:54 ◼   ► working without weird issues on a Mac Pro are low.

01:08:58 ◼   ► So this came out and the combination of both 5K being available when I thought it wouldn't be for years,

01:09:06 ◼   ► plus the much faster CPU speed for single-threaded use, which is what I'm usually limited by,

01:09:14 ◼   ► that pushed me over the edge where I really did not expect to buy a Mac Pro and then want to sell it 10 months later,

01:09:22 ◼   ► but that's what's happening.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Fun.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Well, that was actually a lot less painful than I thought.

01:09:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, honestly, what's most interesting about it is how relatively boring it is.

01:09:37 ◼   ► There's no weird tricks to how this exists.

01:09:41 ◼   ► No, it's kind of weird.

01:09:43 ◼   ► Two DisplayPort connections inside this thing?

01:09:46 ◼   ► It's weird enough that I'm glad that you're going to take one for the team and a bunch

01:09:49 ◼   ► of people are going to find out what are the weird issues.

01:09:52 ◼   ► I'm excited about the fact that they they tout a power reduction,

01:09:55 ◼   ► which means that it's, you know,

01:09:57 ◼   ► so there's other technologies involved with the screen.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know what they're doing to get the power reduction.

01:10:01 ◼   ► I don't know the details of it, but at least it means it's not going to be like

01:10:04 ◼   ► like the water cooled being the power Mac G5, like the water cool.

01:10:07 ◼   ► The computer is just like the hairy edge of what's possible.

01:10:10 ◼   ► But it is kind of at the hairy edge of what's possible,

01:10:12 ◼   ► just not in terms of power and heat.

01:10:13 ◼   ► It seems like they've got that more or less under control.

01:10:15 ◼   ► But I really just don't know what it's going to be like for,

01:10:19 ◼   ► you know, for just day to day use, for gaming, for anything like that.

01:10:23 ◼   ► So I really need I'm you know, I would never buy one of these sight unseen.

01:10:26 ◼   ► You'll probably be OK considering the amount of time something spends

01:10:30 ◼   ► in your house is low because something new and shiny comes along.

01:10:32 ◼   ► But considering I'm sitting here next to a 2008 Mac Pro,

01:10:37 ◼   ► I really want to know what I'm getting before I get it.

01:10:39 ◼   ► And, you know, my recent not so great experience with the Thunderbolt display,

01:10:43 ◼   ► which is brought relatively early in the life of that product,

01:10:45 ◼   ► though not sight unseen, I'd seen them before.

01:10:48 ◼   ► Like I just I'd like other people to sort this out. So you'll tell me all about it when you get one

01:10:52 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, definitely

01:10:53 ◼   ► And and you know, I'm I see a lot of our friends on Twitter Gruber said he ordered one and he buys a computer like every

01:10:59 ◼   ► Ten years so that we were all waiting for desktop red

01:11:02 ◼   ► I mean, what are we even talking about this whole life of the show Marco and I were like, you know

01:11:05 ◼   ► We just need a machine that can run desktop red and that we hope to be the Mac Pro and it wasn't but you Marco bought

01:11:09 ◼   ► one anyway, cuz he's Marco but like everyone all the nerds in our circle are like

01:11:14 ◼   ► Totally, but I mean Gruber is using I think the the 20-inch version of the screen that I have in front of me the the

01:11:20 ◼   ► Aluminum display with white plastic things on the side

01:11:23 ◼   ► I have the 23 and she had the 20 inch one connected like he's just he's been staring at ancient technology

01:11:29 ◼   ► So it was just gonna you know

01:11:30 ◼   ► He's gonna have the world's biggest upgrade in terms of what he's looking at all day

01:11:33 ◼   ► And those are the best kind of upgrades, but it's just like like the go the iPhone 4 you're like wow

01:11:38 ◼   ► No, this is a whole other world. We're in here so and John you're

01:11:43 ◼   ► definitely looking to upgrade your Mac Pro

01:11:46 ◼   ► and this is definitely at least in the running?

01:11:49 ◼   ► - It's in the running.

01:11:50 ◼   ► Like I, again, I was talking about

01:11:51 ◼   ► or before we started recording or before we went live anyway

01:11:55 ◼   ► that every time my poor Mac Pro is just super slow

01:11:58 ◼   ► because of the spinning disks and everything,

01:12:00 ◼   ► I almost buy an SSD.

01:12:01 ◼   ► So many times I'm on that Amazon page.

01:12:03 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, I'm like pricing things out.

01:12:05 ◼   ► I'm getting, you know, looking at reports.

01:12:07 ◼   ► I'm just almost buying it because if I got an SSD

01:12:09 ◼   ► it would seriously extend the life of this machine.

01:12:12 ◼   ► I have a very similar machine, one year newer at work, that's all SSD and it's fine.

01:12:18 ◼   ► But my home is so painful, like "why don't you just get an SSD, they're not that expensive"

01:12:21 ◼   ► and I say no no, what I should do is take that money that I'm about to spend on an SSD

01:12:25 ◼   ► and put it towards whatever my next computer is, whether that's a Mac Pro or an iMac or

01:12:29 ◼   ► whatever.

01:12:30 ◼   ► So looking at the specs of that iMac, it is not ideal.

01:12:33 ◼   ► I like something that's good for gaming.

01:12:35 ◼   ► I worry that even the high end GPU with that kind of resolution is not going to be great

01:12:40 ◼   ► for gaming.

01:12:41 ◼   ► like we're looking at the specs, it looks like it's maybe a little bit weaker than one of the good GPUs in the Mac Pro and

01:12:47 ◼   ► If you're gonna do the Mac Pro for gaming you can you know use them in crossfire mode

01:12:51 ◼   ► So you know at best it's half as fast as the Mac Pro for gaming

01:12:55 ◼   ► And driving more pixels than the Mac Pro has to drive obviously you wouldn't run games that resolution anyway

01:13:00 ◼   ► But anyway, I I want to see some benchmarks first because you know you can't replace it

01:13:05 ◼   ► It's all sealed into one big thing. There's not gonna be any upgrading of it like I upgraded the GPU on my Mac Pro

01:13:10 ◼   ► It is now it's still a vaguely viable gaming machine only because I upgraded the GPU

01:13:16 ◼   ► I can't upgrade the GPU in that iMac

01:13:18 ◼   ► So if I spend four grand on an iMac the screen's gonna look awesome, but how long will it last as my gaming machine?

01:13:23 ◼   ► So I'm still you know

01:13:25 ◼   ► It's like well if I don't buy this iMac

01:13:28 ◼   ► I'm just gonna wait another year for you know for the new Mac pros that can drive the

01:13:32 ◼   ► hopeful eventual

01:13:35 ◼   ► External version of this display. Well, I think it might be two years for that

01:13:39 ◼   ► that actually. If you look at the roadmap and what we're waiting for is DisplayPort

01:13:43 ◼   ► 1.3 and Thunderbolt 3, which will most likely come together. And that's not slated to

01:13:50 ◼   ► go into Xeon chipsets for quite a while. It's not even slated to go into consumer chipsets

01:13:54 ◼   ► until at least a year from now, possibly longer if Intel delays anything, which happens a

01:13:58 ◼   ► lot. So I think you might be waiting. That's why I said in my article about the iMac stuff,

01:14:06 ◼   ► I would guess, if I had to guess when Apple would chip

01:14:09 ◼   ► an external version of this monitor, I'd say 2016.

01:14:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, I might be, I mean,

01:14:14 ◼   ► if I had to wait that long,

01:14:15 ◼   ► and then I would just have to get an SSD,

01:14:15 ◼   ► and then it'd be like, okay, well, this is an SSD,

01:14:17 ◼   ► like, the thing that almost gets me

01:14:19 ◼   ► to click the button on the SSD is like,

01:14:21 ◼   ► I'm not gonna throw it away.

01:14:22 ◼   ► If I got a new computer, I would use the SSD

01:14:24 ◼   ► as like a backup drive or something, you know,

01:14:26 ◼   ► like, it's not like I wouldn't, like,

01:14:27 ◼   ► oh, that was a waste of money, 'cause I would use it,

01:14:30 ◼   ► but I'm just trying to, you know, save,

01:14:32 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know what I'm gonna do.

01:14:33 ◼   ► But like, the pricing is just so ridiculous,

01:14:35 ◼   ► on like it's similar pricing to the Mac Pro,

01:14:37 ◼   ► but you get a free gigantic monitor with it.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Basically, it comes out there.

01:14:41 ◼   ► And the server versus consumer gap is just embarrassing.

01:14:46 ◼   ► But the other thing is that,

01:14:48 ◼   ► especially with huge amounts of RAM,

01:14:50 ◼   ► I really, it seems silly,

01:14:52 ◼   ► but Marco said it as well in your thing,

01:14:54 ◼   ► like we both have this feeling based on nothing,

01:14:57 ◼   ► which is probably false,

01:14:58 ◼   ► but it's like that ECC RAM

01:15:00 ◼   ► with huge amounts of RAM is a benefit.

01:15:02 ◼   ► And Marco, you attributed like,

01:15:04 ◼   ► well, you know, sometimes I have these weird kernel,

01:15:06 ◼   ► who knows if that's even what is true.

01:15:07 ◼   ► I just feel better.

01:15:08 ◼   ► This is what it comes down to.

01:15:09 ◼   ► I feel better with server class components in ECC RAM.

01:15:12 ◼   ► I just do.

01:15:13 ◼   ► And I don't know if it's completely in my head

01:15:15 ◼   ► or it's a placebo effect or I'm being a sucker

01:15:17 ◼   ► or if really that ECC is correcting one bit errors

01:15:20 ◼   ► all day long and saving me from kernel panics

01:15:22 ◼   ► 'cause I cannot remember the last time

01:15:24 ◼   ► I had a kernel panic on this Mac Pro.

01:15:25 ◼   ► This thing is like a champion.

01:15:27 ◼   ► It just, other than its stupid spinning disks,

01:15:29 ◼   ► which I hate with the bloody passion,

01:15:30 ◼   ► it's not the Mac Pro's fault.

01:15:31 ◼   ► They spin, you know, it's spinning rust, whatever.

01:15:33 ◼   ► Everything else about the machine, 100 percent reliable.

01:15:37 ◼   ► And I like that.

01:15:38 ◼   ► And so I would have more faith in the reliability of a second

01:15:43 ◼   ► or third generation boom to Mac Pro.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Who's calls it the boom tube?

01:15:47 ◼   ► Is that wave saying that or was that you anyway?

01:15:49 ◼   ► I would have more faith in that machine just because it's all server

01:15:52 ◼   ► class components and just the cooling system is so incredibly efficient

01:15:55 ◼   ► and probably quieter and all the other things.

01:15:57 ◼   ► But it's ridiculously expensive and not that good at games,

01:16:00 ◼   ► which is why I don't have the current one.

01:16:01 ◼   ► So I don't know, no decision on desktop yet for me.

01:16:04 ◼   ► - Man, but this might be the year of John Syracuse,

01:16:08 ◼   ► as it turns out, 'cause you're gonna have a phone,

01:16:11 ◼   ► you're gonna have a new iPad,

01:16:12 ◼   ► you might have a new computer, you have a new car.

01:16:14 ◼   ► - The year of Casey, you're gonna be a dad.

01:16:16 ◼   ► I don't know if we ever said this on the show,

01:16:19 ◼   ► but you talk about someone who is good at doing dad jokes,

01:16:22 ◼   ► you are already such a dad.

01:16:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:16:24 ◼   ► That you were just like, all you're missing is the kid.

01:16:29 ◼   ► the terrible humor, the all this, you are already a dad.

01:16:32 ◼   ► - I'm glad you approve.

01:16:35 ◼   ► - Man, what's gonna happen to your jokes

01:16:36 ◼   ► after the kid's born?

01:16:37 ◼   ► - They'll actually be funny?

01:16:38 ◼   ► - No, he's like, he's been living the dad life

01:16:40 ◼   ► for so long now, just he just didn't have the kid.

01:16:43 ◼   ► All he needs to put it in,

01:16:44 ◼   ► all he needs is a young person to be embarrassed by him

01:16:47 ◼   ► and the system is complete.

01:16:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:16:50 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness, all right,

01:16:51 ◼   ► so Marco, you are going to order a maxed out iMac,

01:16:56 ◼   ► almost said iPad.

01:16:57 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:16:58 ◼   ► I think that that's what underscore did as well if I understood a developing perspective correctly

01:17:02 ◼   ► And that seems to be the trend these days. So enjoy your new computer and I am so this is exactly speaking

01:17:08 ◼   ► I like this is exactly what happened when you guys weren't in the Mac community back then

01:17:13 ◼   ► I don't think but when so there's the

01:17:15 ◼   ► Yosemite speaking to somebody g3 and there's the g4s and the wind tunnel and the quicksilver is in the crazy liquid cooled thing and

01:17:22 ◼   ► like all that stuff and the front side bus on Mac's was just ridiculous compared to the CPU speed and we just

01:17:27 ◼   ► It was so sad.

01:17:29 ◼   ► It was like, what's going on here?

01:17:31 ◼   ► We don't, I forget what it was,

01:17:32 ◼   ► like 133 megahertz front side bus

01:17:34 ◼   ► with like a gigahertz and a half CPU,

01:17:36 ◼   ► whatever it was, it was obscene.

01:17:37 ◼   ► It was like, it was just a completely unbalanced machine

01:17:40 ◼   ► and we all hated it.

01:17:41 ◼   ► And everybody was just delaying their purchases,

01:17:43 ◼   ► just like there's no way in hell

01:17:44 ◼   ► I'm buying that piece of crap, you know,

01:17:45 ◼   ► whatever comes out.

01:17:46 ◼   ► You could tell it was just not a good machine.

01:17:48 ◼   ► And so as soon as the Power Mac G5 came out,

01:17:51 ◼   ► we all just bought the top end one.

01:17:52 ◼   ► Everybody, like everybody I knew

01:17:54 ◼   ► had the top of the line dual two gigahertz

01:17:56 ◼   ► Carmack G5 cheese grater.

01:17:58 ◼   ► We just all bought them because it's pent up demand

01:18:00 ◼   ► amongst our little circle of nerds.

01:18:02 ◼   ► So this is pent up demand for desktop retinas.

01:18:05 ◼   ► Now I see everybody I know,

01:18:07 ◼   ► obviously had been saving their pennies waiting patiently

01:18:09 ◼   ► and as soon as this thing dropped, like boom, that's it.

01:18:11 ◼   ► That's what I want.

01:18:12 ◼   ► You know, quad 27 inch displays.

01:18:15 ◼   ► I don't care about anything else.

01:18:16 ◼   ► I don't care if it's an iMac, must have it now.

01:18:17 ◼   ► So yeah, you guys are gonna all be great test drivers

01:18:20 ◼   ► for this new machine.

01:18:23 ◼   ► - Lovely.

01:18:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, and honestly, like looking at it,

01:18:25 ◼   ► I looked over it, and I was reading an article about

01:18:29 ◼   ► does anybody still need to buy the Mac Pro basically?

01:18:31 ◼   ► And I was partly writing it,

01:18:33 ◼   ► talking to myself about this problem.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Looking at this, I was trying to think like,

01:18:36 ◼   ► all right, what's the catch?

01:18:37 ◼   ► I was trying to find the catch.

01:18:39 ◼   ► And I thought it might be heat and fan noise,

01:18:41 ◼   ► and it turns out the total system power usage

01:18:44 ◼   ► is almost exactly the same as the old one,

01:18:46 ◼   ► whereas the CPU, if you get the big CPU,

01:18:49 ◼   ► which I definitely recommend, the i7 upgrade,

01:18:51 ◼   ► if you get that, it's like two more watts than the old one.

01:18:54 ◼   ► it's not that big of a difference.

01:18:56 ◼   ► The GPU, from what I've been told,

01:18:58 ◼   ► is slightly more power hungry,

01:19:01 ◼   ► but because the display is 30% less power hungry,

01:19:04 ◼   ► it bounces that out.

01:19:05 ◼   ► And so the total system heat and power needs

01:19:09 ◼   ► are pretty similar to the old one.

01:19:11 ◼   ► And the internal design looks exactly the same.

01:19:14 ◼   ► Like it's the same cooling, the same structure.

01:19:17 ◼   ► And that's why it's actually a pretty mature system.

01:19:20 ◼   ► Like this is the same iMac they've been shipping for years,

01:19:23 ◼   ► just with a crazy display on the front instead of,

01:19:26 ◼   ► but the rest of the internals,

01:19:28 ◼   ► like they're not doing anything new and crazy with that.

01:19:31 ◼   ► So I don't actually foresee major problems,

01:19:33 ◼   ► except that if there's a problem with the panels,

01:19:36 ◼   ► if there's a problem with image retention or--

01:19:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what it comes down to,

01:19:40 ◼   ► this screen or the whole dealing

01:19:44 ◼   ► with basically two DisplayPort things coming into one

01:19:46 ◼   ► and integrating them all if there's any kind of weird lag,

01:19:49 ◼   ► like maybe you wouldn't care, but like for game purposes,

01:19:50 ◼   ► but is there any lag introduced with the synchronization?

01:19:54 ◼   ► Does it, you know, think about the dual GPU MacBook Pros

01:19:58 ◼   ► and stuff when that first came out with the GPU switching,

01:20:00 ◼   ► how that was kind of wonky with software,

01:20:02 ◼   ► will there be a similar issue like this?

01:20:03 ◼   ► Like, you never know.

01:20:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, but it isn't, see,

01:20:06 ◼   ► the way they've done this panel with the single controller

01:20:09 ◼   ► being treated as a single panel.

01:20:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I understand.

01:20:11 ◼   ► Like, I'm not saying it's the exact same problem,

01:20:14 ◼   ► it's just like when there is a,

01:20:15 ◼   ► when Apple does something for the first time,

01:20:17 ◼   ► like they hadn't done this before,

01:20:18 ◼   ► Like they'd never done a display this way before.

01:20:21 ◼   ► They'd never done GPU searching before.

01:20:23 ◼   ► There's a lot of moving parts to it,

01:20:24 ◼   ► and even though they control the whole stack,

01:20:25 ◼   ► you never know if it's gonna be one of those things

01:20:27 ◼   ► that's like wonky and it gets worked out

01:20:28 ◼   ► in the next generation product, but you know.

01:20:30 ◼   ► - No question, next year when they update these

01:20:33 ◼   ► with desktop Broadwell, if that's coming out next fall,

01:20:36 ◼   ► whenever the case, like desktop Broadwell will come out,

01:20:39 ◼   ► it'll get faster, it'll run a little bit cooler,

01:20:42 ◼   ► it'll run a little bit faster.

01:20:43 ◼   ► Broadwell on the desktop is looking like

01:20:45 ◼   ► it's gonna be something like a 10 or 15% improvement.

01:20:47 ◼   ► These are roughly a 10 or 15% speed improvement

01:20:50 ◼   ► over the ones from last year.

01:20:51 ◼   ► Like that's just like, you know,

01:20:53 ◼   ► that's what you get with desktops.

01:20:54 ◼   ► And so if you really want this right now,

01:20:58 ◼   ► I don't think there's a huge reason to wait for next years.

01:21:01 ◼   ► Because it's no different than any other

01:21:03 ◼   ► one year generational gap in desktops.

01:21:05 ◼   ► Like every year it's gonna get a little bit better,

01:21:08 ◼   ► a little bit faster.

01:21:09 ◼   ► - I know, but like the second year

01:21:11 ◼   ► they do this screen in this way,

01:21:12 ◼   ► you figure they'll have more of the kinks worked out.

01:21:14 ◼   ► Like if there are any kinks,

01:21:15 ◼   ► if there are no kinks then fine, there are no kinks.

01:21:16 ◼   ► But the second year they do the screen,

01:21:18 ◼   ► they'll, you know, like even just like you said,

01:21:20 ◼   ► the image retention on the MacBook Pro is like,

01:21:23 ◼   ► that was an issue, they think they got their suppliers

01:21:26 ◼   ► sorting out, now it's not as bad as it was.

01:21:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:21:29 ◼   ► And honestly, like the first generation

01:21:31 ◼   ► of Retina MacBook Pro, the image retention,

01:21:34 ◼   ► which only affected some of the screens,

01:21:36 ◼   ► and I happened to get one, which is annoying,

01:21:38 ◼   ► but the image retention didn't affect all of them,

01:21:41 ◼   ► and that was the only problem, like the hardware

01:21:44 ◼   ► in the first generation Retina MacBook Pro was fine

01:21:46 ◼   ► otherwise. Everything else about it I've had zero problems with. Yep, these could