ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Is this a show?

00:00:03 ◼   ► Is this what people tune in for?

00:00:05 ◼   ► - Well, it doesn't matter 'cause they're here anyway.

00:00:06 ◼   ► So this is what they're getting

00:00:08 ◼   ► regardless of whether this was what they tuned in for.

00:00:12 ◼   ► - Oh goodness.

00:00:13 ◼   ► All right, let's do some follow up.

00:00:14 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:16 ◼   ► Why don't we talk about how my life took a turn

00:00:20 ◼   ► for the better a day or two ago

00:00:22 ◼   ► and no, we did not have Sprout yet.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Sprout is still not born.

00:00:26 ◼   ► But I saw a tweet from our mutual friend Michael Jurowitz, and he said something that I did

00:00:34 ◼   ► not realize.

00:00:35 ◼   ► What he said was that for you to use—I keep calling it SMS Relay.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I'm not sure if that's a blessed term or not.

00:00:44 ◼   ► But for you to use SMS Relay on iOS 8 and Yosemite, it actually does not require Bluetooth

00:00:50 ◼   ► Low Energy like a lot of other new continuity things do.

00:00:54 ◼   ► It instead just requires both devices to be on an active network.

00:01:01 ◼   ► And I haven't done any testing to determine exactly what that is, but I've heard rumblings

00:01:07 ◼   ► that basically as long as your phone is logged into your iCloud account and connected to

00:01:12 ◼   ► the internet some way, somehow, and the computer that you're using is connected to that same

00:01:18 ◼   ► iCloud account and on the internet some way, somehow, then apparently you can send text

00:01:24 ◼   ► messages by way of your phone, which is amazing because I didn't think that that was a possibility

00:01:31 ◼   ► without Bluetooth Low Energy. Yeah, this tweet was a nice summary to try to fit into a single tweet,

00:01:37 ◼   ► all the different requirements for the different continuity related features. We'll put a link to

00:01:40 ◼   ► the tweet in the show notes, but the summary is handoff tethering and airdrop needs Bluetooth

00:01:45 ◼   ► Low Energy. SMS, they just both need network connections and the phone calling stuff,

00:01:50 ◼   ► They may need network connections and I need to be on the same network

00:01:52 ◼   ► Now this is compressed into a tweet

00:01:55 ◼   ► So if there are technical nuances that didn't fit in the tweet don't blame jury blame us

00:01:59 ◼   ► We're just relaying it but it's it's a reasonable summary this this type of information is difficult to

00:02:04 ◼   ► Convey to people because even if you tell them for example that handoff uses Bluetooth low energy to discover things

00:02:10 ◼   ► Nobody knows if their Mac has Bluetooth low energy. Nobody knows what Bluetooth low energy is

00:02:13 ◼   ► So they see these features or even you know

00:02:16 ◼   ► read about them in my review and then are disappointed that they can't do it and you know,

00:02:20 ◼   ► they don't know if they have something called BTLE. So it's

00:02:22 ◼   ► it's just a shame really because I don't think Apple needs to communicate these technical

00:02:28 ◼   ► nuances but the bottom line is that if your machine doesn't have Bluetooth low energy,

00:02:31 ◼   ► you're not going to be scanning with regular Bluetooth at full energy all the time on the

00:02:35 ◼   ► phone and the Mac to be able to do handoff. You know, the feature for the feature to be feasible

00:02:40 ◼   ► relies on low energy so and you know the SMS thing that makes sense that they can coordinate

00:02:46 ◼   ► through all through the server.

00:02:47 ◼   ► The phone, I still don't quite understand

00:02:49 ◼   ► the technical details of why they need to be

00:02:50 ◼   ► on the same network, why, you know,

00:02:53 ◼   ► they don't apparently need to be in Bluetooth range.

00:02:55 ◼   ► I know you don't need to pair them.

00:02:58 ◼   ► But anyway, it's a magical, mystical voodoo,

00:03:00 ◼   ► and all these weird technical details will be moot

00:03:03 ◼   ► in five years when everybody's computers has all this stuff.

00:03:06 ◼   ► But for now, it's a little bit weird.

00:03:07 ◼   ► If you've got an older Mac,

00:03:08 ◼   ► you may not get all these things.

00:03:10 ◼   ► - Right, and that's why I was so excited,

00:03:11 ◼   ► because with the exception of Aaron's MacBook Air,

00:03:14 ◼   ► which is what I used to record,

00:03:16 ◼   ► The newest Mac in the house is a late 2011

00:03:19 ◼   ► high-res Andy Glare MacBook Pro,

00:03:20 ◼   ► which I've talked about numerous times on the show,

00:03:22 ◼   ► and that is pre-Bluetooth Low Energy.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And so, like I'd said before, I was devastated,

00:03:27 ◼   ► well, that's a strong word, but I was really sad

00:03:28 ◼   ► that I wasn't gonna be able to use

00:03:30 ◼   ► a lot of this continuity stuff.

00:03:32 ◼   ► And as it turns out, I haven't tried the phone thing,

00:03:35 ◼   ► although that should work, but I have absolutely tried

00:03:37 ◼   ► the SMS relay, and it's really awesome.

00:03:40 ◼   ► I'm really sad to miss AirDrop.

00:03:44 ◼   ► I am most upset about of the things I'm missing

00:03:47 ◼   ► because I can't tether with my phone

00:03:49 ◼   ► and because I'm on an unlimited plan from AT&T still

00:03:52 ◼   ► and handoff, eh, I don't use Apple Mail, I use Airmail,

00:03:56 ◼   ► so eh, but I was really, really excited to try

00:04:01 ◼   ► or to see that SMS relay works.

00:04:03 ◼   ► - Can we break apart that tethering thing for a second?

00:04:06 ◼   ► How much data per month do you typically use?

00:04:08 ◼   ► - Oh, this is where you basically back me into realizing

00:04:12 ◼   ► that there is no need for me to hold on

00:04:13 ◼   ► the unlimited plan. That is a known issue and I don't really know why I haven't

00:04:22 ◼   ► gotten rid of it yet, but I haven't. And there is no reasonable reason for me to still

00:04:28 ◼   ► have it. And to answer your question, I haven't looked in a while, but I guess I use between

00:04:32 ◼   ► 2 and 3 gigs a month. Erin is still on a 200 megabyte a month plan and I keep begging her

00:04:38 ◼   ► to let me get her more. And she doesn't really use it, and especially now that she's

00:04:44 ◼   ► at home almost all the time, doesn't really need more than that. And so there's almost

00:04:51 ◼   ► no need for us to upgrade. Now I haven't crunched the numbers, but my limited understanding

00:04:56 ◼   ► is it would probably actually be cheaper for us to ditch the unlimited plan and just get

00:05:00 ◼   ► on a share plan, but whatever.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Yeah, Tiff and I did that recently. She was still on unlimited just because she never

00:05:07 ◼   ► had any reason to change it. I had given it up for tethering long ago, but yeah, we found

00:05:12 ◼   ► I think combined we use something like two gigs a month on average and it doesn't really

00:05:17 ◼   ► change that much month to month. So I would venture a guess that if you had tethering,

00:05:24 ◼   ► not only would you probably be paying less per month with a combined plan, but I would

00:05:28 ◼   ► guess that whatever benefit to your life, the unlimited data sounds like it might eventually

00:05:33 ◼   ► possibly someday maybe provide, and that is if AT&T doesn't throttle you too much in the

00:05:37 ◼   ► meantime, which they do because it's not really unlimited anymore. Whatever benefit that's

00:05:42 ◼   ► providing to you, I bet the benefit of going to a tethering plan would be greater.

00:05:46 ◼   ► I think you're right. And as you just pointed out and P-tier in the chat also pointed out,

00:05:53 ◼   ► one time I got to either three or four gigs, I think it was three, and AT&T definitely

00:05:59 ◼   ► sent me a nasty gram saying, "Yeah, we're going to slow everything down until the end

00:06:03 ◼   ► of the month. Have fun with that."

00:06:04 ◼   ► Yeah, so you're basically not getting unlimited data anyway.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Agreed.

00:06:09 ◼   ► So you might as well get the benefits of getting rid of that plan and getting the new features.

00:06:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I know you're right. It's one of those things that momentum is keeping me going in

00:06:17 ◼   ► this probably silly, wasteful direction. So, meh, whatever.

00:06:21 ◼   ► So John, you were saying about Bluetooth Low Energy? Is he doing that?

00:06:24 ◼   ► Let's talk about a airdrop right the lack of airdrop is

00:06:28 ◼   ► somewhat made less painful between iOS and

00:06:31 ◼   ► Mac devices is made less painful if you have an older Mac doesn't support it by iOS 8 extensions now

00:06:37 ◼   ► There are so many more ways from any app with a reasonable

00:06:40 ◼   ► iOS 8

00:06:42 ◼   ► extension support to you know to use a share extension to press push your files from one place to the other whether you I

00:06:48 ◼   ► Mean I guess you could always do it into a lot of apps supported Dropbox

00:06:50 ◼   ► You go continue to do that

00:06:51 ◼   ► but also things like I mean

00:06:53 ◼   ► I heard people even using like transmit for iOS to transfer files back and forth like

00:06:57 ◼   ► You're not as trapped in individual iOS apps now as you used to be like you're not reliant on

00:07:01 ◼   ► Apple's built-in airdrop to be the way that you quickly transfer any content from

00:07:07 ◼   ► From your iOS device to your Mac. So that's nice

00:07:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I think also

00:07:13 ◼   ► iCloud Drive I think is gonna be a bigger deal than we all think it it is like I think we're probably

00:07:20 ◼   ► estimating it because bringing a Dropbox-like storage model

00:07:24 ◼   ► to any iOS app that wants it is really nice.

00:07:28 ◼   ► And I think that's gonna have wide reaching ramifications

00:07:32 ◼   ► if it works at all.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And Jon, you seem to think that,

00:07:35 ◼   ► I was actually paying a lot of attention

00:07:37 ◼   ► during that part of your review.

00:07:38 ◼   ► I mean, I pay attention to the whole thing, of course,

00:07:40 ◼   ► but in particular, the iCloud Drive part,

00:07:43 ◼   ► because I'm very interested in,

00:07:45 ◼   ► I'm really hoping that works very well,

00:07:49 ◼   ► because it can really help iOS so much.

00:07:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, the nice thing is that it's on reasonably level

00:07:57 ◼   ► footing with all those other services that are like that,

00:08:00 ◼   ► including Dropbox or Google Drive

00:08:03 ◼   ► or what is Microsoft's thing called, OneDrive.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Anybody can, once you're on that sheet that comes up

00:08:10 ◼   ► with your sharing things,

00:08:11 ◼   ► anybody can have something in there.

00:08:13 ◼   ► So it's good that it's like if iCloud Drive flakes out

00:08:15 ◼   ► or ends up being unreliable or something,

00:08:17 ◼   ► you have so many other options.

00:08:18 ◼   ► And reliability is, speaking of things in the review,

00:08:20 ◼   ► it's so hard to gauge because anything,

00:08:24 ◼   ► when I'm reviewing the OS,

00:08:25 ◼   ► anything that relies on a server-side component,

00:08:29 ◼   ► it doesn't matter what bits Apple sends me

00:08:31 ◼   ► in a developer build of the OS.

00:08:32 ◼   ► If there's a server-side component

00:08:34 ◼   ► that's either not yet ready or not turned on

00:08:36 ◼   ► or completely buggy,

00:08:37 ◼   ► you can't judge the feature based on that at all.

00:08:40 ◼   ► And even when you get what you think is the final build,

00:08:43 ◼   ► if Apple servers are still being wonky,

00:08:45 ◼   ► it doesn't mean that the bits in the final build are bad.

00:08:48 ◼   ► it could just mean that the servers are still wonky

00:08:50 ◼   ► and that the day of release,

00:08:51 ◼   ► they push out the last build of the server software

00:08:55 ◼   ► and suddenly things work nicely.

00:08:57 ◼   ► For iCloud Drive, in the early betas,

00:09:00 ◼   ► either it didn't work at all or it was totally buggy,

00:09:01 ◼   ► but that doesn't mean anything

00:09:02 ◼   ► because they're still working on it at that point.

00:09:04 ◼   ► And then once it did start working,

00:09:06 ◼   ► I had like this series of tests that I went through

00:09:09 ◼   ► to sort of gauge reliability of transferring large files,

00:09:12 ◼   ► moving files, deleting files,

00:09:13 ◼   ► putting folder with a bunch of little files in it

00:09:15 ◼   ► to try to run it through its paces.

00:09:17 ◼   ► And I rewrote that iCloud Drive section many times

00:09:20 ◼   ► because as it kept getting better,

00:09:23 ◼   ► like I thought, okay, this must be how it's going to work.

00:09:25 ◼   ► And it's not that great.

00:09:26 ◼   ► And, you know, it's taking X number of seconds

00:09:28 ◼   ► for my changes to appear on two different Macs.

00:09:30 ◼   ► But it just got better and better to the point

00:09:31 ◼   ► where by the time I wrote the final version

00:09:33 ◼   ► of that section, it's like,

00:09:35 ◼   ► it more or less works without any huge delays.

00:09:37 ◼   ► The UI issues, I think, are still a possible problem.

00:09:41 ◼   ► Especially now, did you see that Dropbox has a version out

00:09:44 ◼   ► uses the new file synchronization status extensions, I'm assuming, because it looks totally different.

00:09:50 ◼   ► How can you tell just because they're not over the actual file or folder anymore?

00:09:53 ◼   ► Yeah, they're not bad. I'm assuming that's using it. I just noticed it today because

00:09:57 ◼   ► I upgraded my work Mac to Yosemite last night. But yeah, the UI issues and reliability of the

00:10:06 ◼   ► server part, not the client part, or I think where the rubber really hits the road with iCloud drive.

00:10:11 ◼   ► because I mean there's more than one client is that there's all the the access to it from various apps on iOS and from you know,

00:10:16 ◼   ► the

00:10:17 ◼   ► Various extensions on iOS to get to this and then of course is the finder is another client and there's a web client

00:10:23 ◼   ► The one part that we all worry about Apple getting right is a server part

00:10:27 ◼   ► we need to be a reliable fast up all the time and

00:10:31 ◼   ► because it's kind of like Dropbox imagine if you had Dropbox and you had a bunch of little icons and

00:10:37 ◼   ► and they didn't have little green checks on them.

00:10:40 ◼   ► They just had like the little, you know,

00:10:41 ◼   ► spinny blue I'm trying to update thing.

00:10:44 ◼   ► And it never went green.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Like, what do you do about it?

00:10:46 ◼   ► You quit Dropbox and relaunch it.

00:10:48 ◼   ► You delete Dropbox and reinstall it.

00:10:49 ◼   ► It's, you know, never goes green.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Like that's the, that's the thing with the, you know,

00:10:53 ◼   ► it doesn't happen with Dropbox,

00:10:55 ◼   ► but if it did, what is your recourse?

00:10:56 ◼   ► With all these cloud services,

00:10:58 ◼   ► especially even Dropbox doesn't have a like

00:11:01 ◼   ► four synchronized disk file now, please thing.

00:11:04 ◼   ► It's just supposed to work, right?

00:11:05 ◼   ► And when it doesn't, you're like,

00:11:06 ◼   ► I don't know what I can do.

00:11:07 ◼   ► And so that's what I'm always worried about with iCloud Drive.

00:11:10 ◼   ► It's so young now, I don't know, like,

00:11:11 ◼   ► am I going to drag a file into it on my Mac at work

00:11:15 ◼   ► and come home and see that the file's not there?

00:11:17 ◼   ► And I just wait and stare at the folder

00:11:19 ◼   ► and wait for the file to appear?

00:11:20 ◼   ► Like, what do I do then?

00:11:21 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:11:22 ◼   ► There's not even anything to uninstall.

00:11:23 ◼   ► And I guess I could disable and re-enable iCloud Drive,

00:11:26 ◼   ► but so far so good.

00:11:27 ◼   ► But I have to admit that unless there's some compelling

00:11:30 ◼   ► reason for me to leave Dropbox,

00:11:31 ◼   ► which I've been using for a long time

00:11:33 ◼   ► and my habits are all built on,

00:11:34 ◼   ► I'm gonna keep using Dropbox.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I tend to agree.

00:11:39 ◼   ► I don't even...

00:11:40 ◼   ► I enabled iCloud Drive.

00:11:42 ◼   ► I've not ever...

00:11:44 ◼   ► This is now the first time I've ever clicked on the iCloud Drive item in my Finder sidebar.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And turns out there's stuff in there.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Who knew?

00:11:53 ◼   ► Does Dropbox on iOS offer that file picker extension yet?

00:11:59 ◼   ► So it goes in the same dialog as iCloud Drive?

00:12:01 ◼   ► I think it does.

00:12:02 ◼   ► I haven't used an app with it, but I recall seeing screenshots of it.

00:12:05 ◼   ► it might not be released yet.

00:12:08 ◼   ► I haven't tried it.

00:12:10 ◼   ► My habits around iOS are not built around the expectation

00:12:14 ◼   ► that there is anything like this available anywhere.

00:12:18 ◼   ► It used to be that individual apps would have to build in support for Dropbox,

00:12:21 ◼   ► and a lot of them did.

00:12:23 ◼   ► But it just so happens that none of the apps that I use on a regular basis

00:12:25 ◼   ► had this built in support for Dropbox.

00:12:27 ◼   ► And all those apps that do have that built in support

00:12:29 ◼   ► are, I'm assuming, are slowly changing to use the system way

00:12:31 ◼   ► to get at that same extension.

00:12:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I hope so.

00:12:36 ◼   ► That's actually one thing like I,

00:12:37 ◼   ► in apps that I'm using,

00:12:39 ◼   ► it's actually really annoying now,

00:12:40 ◼   ► the ones that still present their own share sheets,

00:12:43 ◼   ► like their own custom share sheet

00:12:44 ◼   ► without using the system one.

00:12:46 ◼   ► Like that's, do you guys,

00:12:47 ◼   ► are you guys unreasonably annoyed with that

00:12:49 ◼   ► or is it just a me thing?

00:12:50 ◼   ► - I was kind of annoyed by the apps that I have

00:12:52 ◼   ► that used to do a custom way

00:12:54 ◼   ► and now bring that giant sheet up.

00:12:57 ◼   ► Because a lot of time I know

00:12:58 ◼   ► I just want to go to Instapaper

00:12:59 ◼   ► and that used to be one tap.

00:13:00 ◼   ► - So it's the opposite of my complaint.

00:13:02 ◼   ► - Now it's two taps, yeah.

00:13:03 ◼   ► I mean, I'll get over it,

00:13:04 ◼   ► but like now it's two taps.

00:13:05 ◼   ► Especially because of the stupid bug where the reordering of the things doesn't stick.

00:13:08 ◼   ► Oh, I don't know about that.

00:13:10 ◼   ► I just haven't reordered anything.

00:13:11 ◼   ► I have reordered it and it has not stuck and other people have complained about it as well.

00:13:15 ◼   ► But anyway, it used to be one tap on a button to send Instapaper, now it's one tap to bring

00:13:20 ◼   ► up the giant sheet.

00:13:21 ◼   ► Luckily Instapaper is usually within one scrolling section, but it's not like the upper left

00:13:25 ◼   ► one or wherever I want it to be, and then I tap the Instapaper thing and then the thing

00:13:28 ◼   ► comes up.

00:13:29 ◼   ► So anyway, I would much prefer it this way.

00:13:31 ◼   ► much better to have an extensible system.

00:13:33 ◼   ► It's just we need the kinks to be worked out of at first.

00:13:36 ◼   ► The people in the chat are saying that Dropbox doesn't yet

00:13:38 ◼   ► have the document picker thing on iOS.

00:13:41 ◼   ► That's a shame if true.

00:13:42 ◼   ► I mean, they showed that in the keynotes,

00:13:44 ◼   ► but maybe it was speculative, like,

00:13:45 ◼   ► and that Dropbox could make something like this,

00:13:47 ◼   ► and they just haven't yet.

00:13:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I thought they kind of danced--

00:13:51 ◼   ► like, I don't think they actually

00:13:52 ◼   ► mentioned Dropbox by name, but I'm pretty sure, like,

00:13:54 ◼   ► that was the very strong implication.

00:13:55 ◼   ► We are basically building this for Dropbox

00:13:58 ◼   ► and a couple other things.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Like, you know, same thing with the badging

00:14:01 ◼   ► that's entered on Yosemite.

00:14:02 ◼   ► It's like, we are basically building this entire capability

00:14:05 ◼   ► for like Dropbox, Box, and OneDrive, or SkyDrive,

00:14:08 ◼   ► or whatever Microsoft's thing is.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Our first sponsor this week is Backblaze.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Go to backblaze.com/atp.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Backblaze is unlimited and unthrottled online backup

00:14:20 ◼   ► for just five bucks a month.

00:14:22 ◼   ► This is really, I mean, we've talked about Backblaze before,

00:14:25 ◼   ► so, you know, I don't need to tell you guys

00:14:28 ◼   ► why you need cloud backup.

00:14:29 ◼   ► But I will anyway, because the fact is,

00:14:31 ◼   ► you know, a backup, somebody wise recently said,

00:14:34 ◼   ► and I'm pretty sure this is a very old thing,

00:14:36 ◼   ► somebody wise recently said that a backup is not a backup

00:14:40 ◼   ► if it isn't automatic.

00:14:41 ◼   ► And yes, I know, probably everyone has said that before.

00:14:44 ◼   ► Anyway, moving on.

00:14:45 ◼   ► If you have some kind of backup system

00:14:48 ◼   ► where you're only backing things up in your house,

00:14:51 ◼   ► then you could lose data if something happens to your house

00:14:54 ◼   ► that would affect all the things in it

00:14:56 ◼   ► or all the things plugged in.

00:14:57 ◼   ► So for example, if you only have a computer

00:14:59 ◼   ► with a time machine drive.

00:15:00 ◼   ► If you get a big power surge or a fire or a flood

00:15:03 ◼   ► or a theft, that will wipe out both of those things

00:15:06 ◼   ► in all likelihood.

00:15:07 ◼   ► And so you don't want every copy of your data

00:15:09 ◼   ► to be in your house or plugged into your computer

00:15:12 ◼   ► all the time.

00:15:13 ◼   ► So most people have figured out along the way,

00:15:16 ◼   ► oh, an offsite backup would be nice,

00:15:18 ◼   ► offsite backup of some sort.

00:15:20 ◼   ► And the problem with that is that usually

00:15:21 ◼   ► it's really, really hard to ever remember to actually do it.

00:15:24 ◼   ► So most of the time you might have a hard drive

00:15:27 ◼   ► at your parents' house or at work with some of your files

00:15:30 ◼   ► on it that you've last updated six months ago,

00:15:32 ◼   ► maybe at most, and then forgotten about.

00:15:35 ◼   ► With online backup, it's so much better

00:15:37 ◼   ► because it's just continuously happening in the background.

00:15:39 ◼   ► You are always backed up offsite.

00:15:41 ◼   ► And the class of problem this protects you from is so big,

00:15:46 ◼   ► and it's so easy, 'cause you just don't think about it.

00:15:49 ◼   ► You're just always being backed up online.

00:15:52 ◼   ► And among the cloud backup providers,

00:15:55 ◼   ► I've tried a number of them,

00:15:57 ◼   ► And I personally stuck with Backblaze

00:15:59 ◼   ► even before they were a sponsor.

00:16:00 ◼   ► I chose them as the best for me.

00:16:02 ◼   ► And I think they'll be the best for you too.

00:16:04 ◼   ► They're really extremely good.

00:16:06 ◼   ► So big things first, unlimited disk space,

00:16:08 ◼   ► five bucks a month, that's it.

00:16:10 ◼   ► Also the unthrottled point is very important.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Many cloud providers can't accept the files quickly enough.

00:16:15 ◼   ► So even though you can upload them fast,

00:16:17 ◼   ► they couldn't accept them.

00:16:18 ◼   ► And so it was gonna take months to upload my first backup.

00:16:22 ◼   ► And with Backblaze, that was never a problem.

00:16:24 ◼   ► They were always very fast.

00:16:26 ◼   ► They can basically accept them as quickly as you're willing

00:16:28 ◼   ► to send them and their client does a nice job

00:16:29 ◼   ► of throttling automatically to make sure

00:16:31 ◼   ► it doesn't miss anything up for you.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Their app is native.

00:16:35 ◼   ► It is a preference pane with a menu item.

00:16:38 ◼   ► They're always up to date with Mac releases.

00:16:41 ◼   ► It runs on Yosemite.

00:16:42 ◼   ► They also have an iPhone, iPad, and Android app.

00:16:45 ◼   ► You can access your backed up files from Backblaze

00:16:48 ◼   ► on the go from your apps.

00:16:49 ◼   ► You can also, let's say you're like on a trip

00:16:52 ◼   ► and you forgot to bring a file with you

00:16:53 ◼   ► and it's not like in Dropbox or anything.

00:16:55 ◼   ► you can log into Backblaze and restore just one file

00:16:59 ◼   ► onto your laptop as you're traveling to get access to it.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Things like that, it's a really helpful system,

00:17:04 ◼   ► really nice, and all that backup is just,

00:17:06 ◼   ► to use the words of John Gruber,

00:17:09 ◼   ► you're nuts if you don't have online backup.

00:17:11 ◼   ► And so anyway, thanks a lot to Backblaze.

00:17:13 ◼   ► Go to backblaze.com/atp, highly recommend it.

00:17:16 ◼   ► I've used them myself for years now,

00:17:18 ◼   ► and I definitely recommend that you have

00:17:20 ◼   ► a cloud backup service, and if you're gonna have one,

00:17:23 ◼   ► I'd say this is the best one.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Anyway, thanks a lot to Backblaze

00:17:26 ◼   ► for sponsoring the show once again.

00:17:28 ◼   ► - John, you have some real time follow up for us.

00:17:31 ◼   ► - Chat room, and a couple other places I've pointed,

00:17:35 ◼   ► screenshots of the Dropbox document picker.

00:17:37 ◼   ► - Okay then.

00:17:38 ◼   ► - This is from Vitechy's review of iOS 8.

00:17:40 ◼   ► So it's a thing, there you go.

00:17:42 ◼   ► We'll put the link to Vitechy's iOS 8 document

00:17:46 ◼   ► provider's story, and everyone else take a look at it.

00:17:50 ◼   ► I'm sure everyone else already knew that.

00:17:52 ◼   ► When I think about it, like what kind of apps do I have

00:17:54 ◼   ► on iOS that would use a document picker.

00:17:57 ◼   ► It's kind of chicken egg, because before you

00:17:59 ◼   ► have a generic document picker, if you keep all your stuff

00:18:01 ◼   ► on Dropbox, then you're not going to have one or whatever.

00:18:03 ◼   ► But what apps do you guys use that you would find yourself

00:18:08 ◼   ► using Dropbox document picker with?

00:18:10 ◼   ► Well, I think what's interesting here is before--

00:18:17 ◼   ► one of the big problems of doing any kind of productivity

00:18:20 ◼   ► task on an iOS device, if you're working with documents

00:18:23 ◼   ► One of the big problems is always just getting the files on and off of it.

00:18:27 ◼   ► And some apps would support the iCloud documents and data thing.

00:18:30 ◼   ► It was always limited and I personally was a little bit afraid to use it because I never

00:18:35 ◼   ► really knew where those files were and it was kind of weird.

00:18:38 ◼   ► For me, iCloud Drive not only replaces that but I think just having this as a thing.

00:18:46 ◼   ► Right now, it's going to take us a while to realize that we can do this.

00:18:48 ◼   ► It's going to take developers a while to realize that they can do something with this.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So I think this is the kind of thing that in six months

00:18:55 ◼   ► or a year or two years, we might look back on this

00:18:57 ◼   ► and say, oh my God, this made such a big difference.

00:19:00 ◼   ► But right now, it's hard to see it

00:19:02 ◼   ► because nothing's really using it yet.

00:19:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I can think of one place I would have liked

00:19:05 ◼   ► to use it when, it's too late now,

00:19:07 ◼   ► but when doing ebook previews,

00:19:09 ◼   ► I would have loved to not have to use iTunes.

00:19:12 ◼   ► And in the past, what I could do is take the versions

00:19:15 ◼   ► of the eBooks and throw them in my Dropbox.

00:19:17 ◼   ► And then I would go to the Dropbox client,

00:19:19 ◼   ► the dedicated Dropbox app in the days before iOS 8,

00:19:22 ◼   ► and find the, you know, whatever file that I wanted to open.

00:19:25 ◼   ► And I would tap on it, and it would download

00:19:28 ◼   ► in the Dropbox app, and then it would show me a little thing

00:19:30 ◼   ► that says, "Sorry, the Dropbox app doesn't know

00:19:32 ◼   ► "how to display this thing."

00:19:33 ◼   ► But then there was a little button that said,

00:19:34 ◼   ► "Open in these applications which understand it."

00:19:37 ◼   ► And the most recent version of the Dropbox app

00:19:41 ◼   ► did not understand how to do that

00:19:42 ◼   ► with all the formats that I was using,

00:19:44 ◼   ► and it would just not offer to open it in the Kindle app

00:19:46 ◼   ► or to open it in the iBooks app.

00:19:49 ◼   ► So if I had a Dropbox document picker,

00:19:52 ◼   ► I could have gone to the iBooks app,

00:19:54 ◼   ► used the Dropbox document picker,

00:19:55 ◼   ► assuming the document pickers are supported all day,

00:19:57 ◼   ► I don't even know if they are,

00:19:58 ◼   ► and just pull it that way,

00:19:59 ◼   ► and same thing from the Kindle app.

00:20:00 ◼   ► So too late for me,

00:20:02 ◼   ► but that's one scenario I can think of.

00:20:04 ◼   ► Anything so I don't have to use iTunes to transfer files.

00:20:08 ◼   ► - All right.

00:20:09 ◼   ► So to continue with some follow-up,

00:20:11 ◼   ► do you wanna tell us, John,

00:20:12 ◼   ► about some person-to-person Bluetooth-based mesh networks

00:20:17 ◼   ► that are particularly popular,

00:20:18 ◼   ► perhaps were particularly popular in Hong Kong.

00:20:21 ◼   ► - A couple shows ago, we were talking about Twitter

00:20:24 ◼   ► and decentralized messaging services,

00:20:27 ◼   ► not controlled by any one company like Twitter or whatever,

00:20:31 ◼   ► protocols instead of,

00:20:34 ◼   ► protocols like IMAP, POP and SMTP

00:20:36 ◼   ► instead of proprietary services like Twitter with APIs

00:20:40 ◼   ► and OAuth tokens and all that stuff.

00:20:41 ◼   ► And I don't remember if we brought this up on the show,

00:20:45 ◼   ► but so I threw it into the followup.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Sorry if this is a repeat, but what I was thinking of when we were having a discussion and I might not have

00:20:51 ◼   ► Remembered to interject was when they're having those protests in Hong Kong the people in the crowd were using an application

00:20:59 ◼   ► For messaging that used Bluetooth person to person so there was no connection to a centralized server over the internet

00:21:07 ◼   ► I think they might have actually not even had internet access

00:21:09 ◼   ► But since each individual phone had Bluetooth the message could be passed from phone to phone to phone to phone

00:21:14 ◼   ► to spread to all the people in the crowd and this application is an application that was used for

00:21:19 ◼   ► like if you go somewhere where there's no Wi-Fi signal like you go camping or something and

00:21:24 ◼   ► So you and your friends can all you know send messages to each other on your information phones

00:21:28 ◼   ► Even though none of you have access or cell access and you're all near each other

00:21:32 ◼   ► Yeah, well, you know, you're in your you know, a bunch of tents all set up somewhere, you know what I mean?

00:21:36 ◼   ► I think that's what it's for. But anyway

00:21:38 ◼   ► Regardless they were using this technology to basically communicate with each other despite the you know

00:21:43 ◼   ► the government or whatever, the centralized authorities making other forms of communication impossible.

00:21:48 ◼   ► So I think in this scenario, it's kind of weird because this was like a protest or whatever, but the dystopian future,

00:21:55 ◼   ► dystopian sci-fi future is everybody uses Twitter and Twitter is controlled by one company and the utopian future is

00:22:02 ◼   ► everybody uses peer-to-peer mesh networks that can't be controlled by any single government or entity and like there's nothing you can do to break

00:22:11 ◼   ► communication in the entire

00:22:12 ◼   ► world because we all are just connected to each other by

00:22:15 ◼   ► Proximity and mesh networks and you could you could black out little portions here and there

00:22:20 ◼   ► But eventually the mesh will cover everything so I think we are not in either one of those scenarios

00:22:24 ◼   ► We're between the dystopia and the utopia, but uh hopefully we'll push things the right direction

00:22:29 ◼   ► Somehow all right and a couple shows ago

00:22:32 ◼   ► We were also talking about bent iPhones, which by the way did that just magically go away

00:22:36 ◼   ► I think it's still there, but I don't think there's any new news. You know yeah well anyway

00:22:42 ◼   ► Jared Villemaire, I'm probably butchering that.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Sorry, Jared.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Anyway, he said that with regard to Apple taking bent iPhones, we were talking about

00:22:52 ◼   ► how we thought it was interesting that, or somebody had written in that it was

00:22:55 ◼   ► interesting that a genius or whoever it was took notes on the fact of what that

00:23:00 ◼   ► person was doing when their iPhone bent or something on those lines.

00:23:02 ◼   ► Well, anyways, Jared says Apple taking bent iPhones, Apple always does quote

00:23:06 ◼   ► engineering captures quote for specific issues on new products for a short time.

00:23:11 ◼   ► So that is just a little bit of follow up there.

00:23:15 ◼   ► And also it occurred to me,

00:23:17 ◼   ► what happened at that Twitter thing today?

00:23:19 ◼   ► Was that a thing, wasn't there a thing today?

00:23:21 ◼   ► - There, yeah, they had a developer conference today.

00:23:25 ◼   ► And honestly, I have not been paying attention

00:23:27 ◼   ► to what they announced,

00:23:28 ◼   ► except they announced something called, is it Digits?

00:23:30 ◼   ► It's like basically like SMS two-factor as a service

00:23:34 ◼   ► that anybody can use, something like that.

00:23:37 ◼   ► But honestly, I don't know the details.

00:23:39 ◼   ► Yeah, all right, so more of the same.

00:23:42 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:23:43 ◼   ► I keep meaning to blog about this.

00:23:44 ◼   ► So I wrote an article the other day

00:23:47 ◼   ► in anticipation of this conference

00:23:48 ◼   ► because WSJ had posted some kind of crazy thing saying

00:23:51 ◼   ► Twitter is going to start over again with developers

00:23:53 ◼   ► and start fresh and reset their image.

00:23:55 ◼   ► And I basically said, no, they're not.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And the gist of my post was that they're not

00:24:00 ◼   ► trustworthy to developers.

00:24:02 ◼   ► And there's been a number of responses.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Dave Weiner notably responded pretty publicly,

00:24:08 ◼   ► basically saying in short,

00:24:11 ◼   ► and I hope I'm not butchering his argument here,

00:24:13 ◼   ► but in short that we can pick and choose our gatekeepers

00:24:17 ◼   ► and that it's hard for me to say this kind of stuff

00:24:20 ◼   ► without pointing out that I accept

00:24:22 ◼   ► the Apple App Store gatekeeper

00:24:24 ◼   ► and Apple has done crappy stuff to developers in the past.

00:24:27 ◼   ► And that's all true.

00:24:29 ◼   ► I think the main difference is alignment of interests though.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Twitter, there's a great quote,

00:24:35 ◼   ► let me see, I have it open here.

00:24:38 ◼   ► It's on the verge today.

00:24:39 ◼   ► There's a comment from somebody at Twitter that said,

00:24:42 ◼   ► referring to their old API before they put it

00:24:44 ◼   ► in the restrictions with the token limits

00:24:46 ◼   ► and everything for clients.

00:24:47 ◼   ► They said, "Our API was so open

00:24:49 ◼   ► "that we allowed people to compete with us."

00:24:51 ◼   ► And this was like their justification

00:24:55 ◼   ► for locking it down two years ago

00:24:57 ◼   ► with the token limits and everything.

00:24:59 ◼   ► I think that, you know, our API was so open

00:25:01 ◼   ► that we allowed people to compete with us.

00:25:03 ◼   ► That right there says a lot more

00:25:06 ◼   ► than that person probably planned to say,

00:25:08 ◼   ► that explains a lot.

00:25:10 ◼   ► So what this means is Twitter's API made it possible

00:25:15 ◼   ► for people to compete with Twitter

00:25:18 ◼   ► and they shut it down because they had to.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Their API has the potential

00:25:24 ◼   ► to make people compete with them.

00:25:25 ◼   ► It gives people the ability to compete with them.

00:25:27 ◼   ► It gives people the ability to do things

00:25:28 ◼   ► like build a whole following graph.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Like when Instagram launched,

00:25:32 ◼   ► Instagram became a social network,

00:25:34 ◼   ► primarily by importing people's Twitter friends

00:25:37 ◼   ► and then building its own side network.

00:25:40 ◼   ► And then you didn't need Twitter anymore after that.

00:25:42 ◼   ► And then Twitter, of course, realized this

00:25:44 ◼   ► and cut off access to the Friend Finder thing for them.

00:25:46 ◼   ► And these situations will keep coming up.

00:25:49 ◼   ► Twitter also had a problem where there were some clients,

00:25:51 ◼   ► I forget the name of it,

00:25:52 ◼   ► but there was some company buying up

00:25:54 ◼   ► a whole bunch of Twitter clients

00:25:55 ◼   ► and they were gonna start their own shadow network

00:25:58 ◼   ► next to Twitter.

00:25:59 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:26:00 ◼   ► And you'd be able to post to both of them

00:26:03 ◼   ► and integrate the timelines and everything.

00:26:05 ◼   ► And that I think was the bigger freak out that Twitter had.

00:26:08 ◼   ► And that was a couple of years earlier than Instagram,

00:26:09 ◼   ► I think.

00:26:10 ◼   ► So Twitter got freaked out that you could use their API

00:26:14 ◼   ► to steal value from them and devalue them

00:26:17 ◼   ► and compete with them.

00:26:19 ◼   ► If you look at the situation Apple's in with app developers,

00:26:21 ◼   ► it's a very different situation.

00:26:23 ◼   ► I mean, yes, it's possible that you can make an app

00:26:26 ◼   ► that competes with one of Apple's apps,

00:26:28 ◼   ► but Apple's primary interests are selling the hardware.

00:26:30 ◼   ► And so if you're a developer making apps,

00:26:33 ◼   ► the chances that your interests are going to conflict

00:26:36 ◼   ► with Apple's interests are extremely low.

00:26:38 ◼   ► There's almost no chance for that to realistically happen

00:26:41 ◼   ► in any plausible future scenario,

00:26:43 ◼   ► at least during, at least enough of a future,

00:26:46 ◼   ► maybe on a Syracuse timescale maybe,

00:26:48 ◼   ► but in the next like 10 years,

00:26:51 ◼   ► how long is your software likely to last?

00:26:54 ◼   ► Five, 10 years if you're lucky.

00:26:56 ◼   ► So in that time, are Apple's interests

00:26:59 ◼   ► really gonna change dramatically to the point

00:27:01 ◼   ► where they're gonna be at odds

00:27:02 ◼   ► with what app developers do on their platform.

00:27:05 ◼   ► And the answer is probably not.

00:27:06 ◼   ► So I think it's a very different argument to say that,

00:27:10 ◼   ► oh, well, Apple has complete control over their platform

00:27:12 ◼   ► and you buy into that and you're investing in that

00:27:15 ◼   ► and therefore your argument is invalid.

00:27:17 ◼   ► I don't think that's a fair counterargument.

00:27:20 ◼   ► Twitter on the other hand,

00:27:21 ◼   ► there are so many ways you can use a Twitter API

00:27:24 ◼   ► in ways that if you say, well, if this gets big enough,

00:27:27 ◼   ► this could be a real problem for Twitter,

00:27:28 ◼   ► or we've just stolen a whole bunch of value from Twitter.

00:27:31 ◼   ► Like, that is so much more likely given what Twitter is

00:27:35 ◼   ► and what their API allows access to.

00:27:38 ◼   ► That's what makes it so untrustworthy,

00:27:39 ◼   ► is that the chance that your interests

00:27:41 ◼   ► will conflict with Twitter's if you are successful

00:27:44 ◼   ► are very, very high.

00:27:45 ◼   ► - I don't think it's a structural difference though.

00:27:47 ◼   ► I think it is the actions of the companies involved.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Because, I mean, when I heard that quote about, you know,

00:27:55 ◼   ► Twitter saying we actually have people compete with us,

00:27:57 ◼   ► I just shook my head thinking they don't,

00:28:00 ◼   ► their view of API usage is different.

00:28:05 ◼   ► And it has caused them to act in ways that makes them untrustworthy because they've proven they don't understand what the heck is going on there.

00:28:11 ◼   ► The aspects of competition you just talked about are real and they're there,

00:28:16 ◼   ► but even before Instagram was able to steal value from Twitter by exploiting its relationship graph to bootstrap its own photo social network thing,

00:28:27 ◼   ► Twitter only became Twitter, or so the story we tell ourselves go in our little circle.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Well, not only, but at least partially because people, third parties, made clients that made

00:28:38 ◼   ► the service more palatable for people who didn't want to go to their ugly ass webpage.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Like they were not, those people who were using Twitter's API to make client software

00:28:47 ◼   ► for all these sorts of platforms and to refine it and everything like that, for Twitter to

00:28:52 ◼   ► view them as people, we even let people compete with, they weren't competing with you, they

00:28:55 ◼   ► were helping you become the Twitter you are today.

00:28:58 ◼   ► Without them, who knows if you would have become the Twitter?

00:29:00 ◼   ► You could have still been, you know, like a tent, right?

00:29:04 ◼   ► Like a service that nobody wants to use

00:29:07 ◼   ► because they don't like using your webpage

00:29:08 ◼   ► and your client software is crappy.

00:29:09 ◼   ► Like who cares?

00:29:11 ◼   ► Like you wouldn't be worried about protecting your value.

00:29:13 ◼   ► Like, so to view those people as competition is just weird.

00:29:16 ◼   ► Like that was the whole sort of what we all felt betrayed

00:29:19 ◼   ► or the Twitter client developers is like,

00:29:21 ◼   ► they felt like they helped build this service

00:29:23 ◼   ► into what it is today.

00:29:24 ◼   ► and then Twitter was like,

00:29:25 ◼   ► "Okay, don't need you anymore, thanks, bye."

00:29:27 ◼   ► Whereas Apple, for all its weird foibles and everything,

00:29:30 ◼   ► still seems to be able to keep the eye on the ball and say,

00:29:33 ◼   ► "Developers are actually an important part of, you know,

00:29:36 ◼   ► "they add value to our devices.

00:29:38 ◼   ► "We can sell our hardware because these people,

00:29:40 ◼   ► "app developers make apps from that."

00:29:42 ◼   ► Apple's constantly saying, "Hey, look at all these apps."

00:29:44 ◼   ► And not being like,

00:29:45 ◼   ► "We even let people make apps to compete with ours."

00:29:47 ◼   ► Apple would never say that, 'cause it's like,

00:29:49 ◼   ► you know, all they do is brag about

00:29:50 ◼   ► how many people make apps,

00:29:51 ◼   ► how many apps are on the app store,

00:29:53 ◼   ► how much money they give to developers.

00:29:54 ◼   ► Like they know that the apps make,

00:29:57 ◼   ► without apps their hardware is way less valuable.

00:29:59 ◼   ► So Apple pushes that like crazy.

00:30:01 ◼   ► And you know, it's the hierarchy of Apple needs

00:30:03 ◼   ► of Apple first, customers first,

00:30:06 ◼   ► Apple second and developers third,

00:30:07 ◼   ► and that still annoys developers.

00:30:08 ◼   ► And Apple still does have a tremendous amount of control

00:30:10 ◼   ► over its platform, but it's,

00:30:12 ◼   ► that's why I said it's not structural.

00:30:13 ◼   ► Twitter and Apple have similar amounts of control

00:30:15 ◼   ► at this point over their platforms.

00:30:17 ◼   ► But based on past actions,

00:30:18 ◼   ► we believe Apple understands to some degree

00:30:21 ◼   ► that everyone who makes an app for the App Store

00:30:24 ◼   ► is increasing the value of Apple's products.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Whereas Twitter seems hell-bent on not understanding

00:30:31 ◼   ► that people writing applications against the Twitter API

00:30:33 ◼   ► in all sorts of ways makes Twitter more valuable.

00:30:36 ◼   ► And you're right, there still is possibility,

00:30:38 ◼   ► you know, exploiting it to bootstrap some other network

00:30:40 ◼   ► or stuff like that.

00:30:41 ◼   ► But things like Twitter clients, like the reason,

00:30:43 ◼   ► you know, oh, doesn't that add value to your network?

00:30:45 ◼   ► It's like, no, because we have a monetization strategy

00:30:47 ◼   ► that relies on you not being able to get tweets

00:30:49 ◼   ► and we would need to be able to insert tweets

00:30:50 ◼   ► your timeline and blah blah blah like that tension is kind of of Twitter's own invention

00:30:55 ◼   ► over their inability to figure out a business plan that that that benefits everybody so

00:31:02 ◼   ► I don't trust Twitter particularly but it's not because they have a lot of control because

00:31:06 ◼   ► Apple has a lot of control too it's because it just doesn't seem like Twitter understands

00:31:10 ◼   ► you know their view of the relationship between third parties and their service is just different

00:31:14 ◼   ► than than my view from the outside.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Well, but I think Twitter's view is very valid.

00:31:19 ◼   ► Twitter's view, you know, I totally see why they want to own the client experience.

00:31:24 ◼   ► You know, the changes they made were not only to squash competition from, you know, stealing

00:31:30 ◼   ► from Twitter and like taking over their network or replacing their network, but was also to

00:31:35 ◼   ► take back control of the client experience for most people and to never let a third party

00:31:40 ◼   ► client get as big as their client again.

00:31:43 ◼   ► What that allowed them to do then is have the power over their own experience.

00:31:46 ◼   ► their product is not an API.

00:31:50 ◼   ► It originally kind of was, but now, you know,

00:31:53 ◼   ► for a long time their product has not been the API,

00:31:55 ◼   ► it has been the Twitter app.

00:31:58 ◼   ► - But that's their view of the service.

00:32:00 ◼   ► Our view of the service was you're like email, but smaller.

00:32:03 ◼   ► Like you are a protocol, you are a message format.

00:32:08 ◼   ► That's not what they actually were,

00:32:09 ◼   ► but like that's how we viewed it on the outside.

00:32:11 ◼   ► In the same way we would make awesome email clients

00:32:13 ◼   ► back in the day to work with email,

00:32:15 ◼   ► and you know, Claris email,

00:32:16 ◼   ► this is before your time,

00:32:16 ◼   ► but Claris email will come out and people love you,

00:32:18 ◼   ► Dora and blah, blah, blah.

00:32:19 ◼   ► And those were all email clients and we liked the client

00:32:22 ◼   ► and but email was email.

00:32:23 ◼   ► Well, Twitter was Twitter,

00:32:24 ◼   ► but like Twitter's view of itself was not that

00:32:26 ◼   ► and you don't make money being a company

00:32:28 ◼   ► that invents a pop or SMTP or whatever.

00:32:31 ◼   ► So that was the tension,

00:32:32 ◼   ► but like I still get back to Twitter,

00:32:35 ◼   ► the service would be nothing,

00:32:36 ◼   ► would be a footnote in history

00:32:37 ◼   ► if it wasn't for all of those clients that added value

00:32:40 ◼   ► and Twitter didn't make those clients,

00:32:41 ◼   ► Twitter couldn't make those clients.

00:32:43 ◼   ► Twitter could only have made one of those clients at most

00:32:45 ◼   ► if it had tried to take control earlier.

00:32:47 ◼   ► But there was tons of clients,

00:32:48 ◼   ► and that's why Twitter is what it is today.

00:32:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, sure, but that doesn't matter anymore.

00:32:52 ◼   ► That's ancient history.

00:32:53 ◼   ► I mean, anybody at Twitter who possibly cared about that

00:32:56 ◼   ► has probably left by now.

00:32:57 ◼   ► - But that's the betrayal,

00:32:58 ◼   ► and that's why we don't trust them anymore.

00:33:00 ◼   ► That's why, again, it's not structural.

00:33:02 ◼   ► It's not because of the control they have.

00:33:03 ◼   ► It's because of what they have done

00:33:04 ◼   ► with that control in the past.

00:33:06 ◼   ► And it's a bit of divorce between the way we saw Twitter

00:33:10 ◼   ► and the way Twitter sees itself.

00:33:11 ◼   ► And so no change of heart on their part unless they prove that they see their service differently and that we're on the same page

00:33:16 ◼   ► Again, and we don't see their you know, they're not on the same page. They're still saying

00:33:21 ◼   ► Oh, we let people compete with us. It shows that there's still a disconnect

00:33:24 ◼   ► We want to think of Twitter as a protocol a service a message format or whatever

00:33:28 ◼   ► We want to think of Twitter like blogging. No one owns blogging right just conceptually

00:33:33 ◼   ► It's we know what blogging is conceptually, but there's no owner of a technology wise but

00:33:37 ◼   ► We want to think of Twitter that way too. It's not that way

00:33:40 ◼   ► So I think we'll always be sort of, you know, standing as opposite sides of the gym during

00:33:46 ◼   ► the dance, not ever going into the middle. And, you know, I don't see a way out of this. I don't

00:33:52 ◼   ► see any overture unless Twitter changes its mind and decides to become like an infrastructure

00:33:57 ◼   ► company. But—

00:33:59 ◼   ► That's not gonna happen.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, once the VCs come in and everything, it's like, well, you know,

00:34:03 ◼   ► they can want their money back somehow.

00:34:05 ◼   ► - Well, the VCs were there.

00:34:06 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:34:07 ◼   ► I think we all thought, you know,

00:34:09 ◼   ► when Twitter came to its initial rise,

00:34:13 ◼   ► when we were writing all these clients,

00:34:14 ◼   ► that was during the era of web development,

00:34:16 ◼   ► where every web app was expected to have an API,

00:34:19 ◼   ► often from the start.

00:34:20 ◼   ► It was often best wisdom to have an API first

00:34:23 ◼   ► and then build your actual app on top of it.

00:34:25 ◼   ► - Right, like the web app was like,

00:34:27 ◼   ► who cares about the web app?

00:34:28 ◼   ► It's all about the API, right?

00:34:29 ◼   ► - This was kind of like this weird time

00:34:31 ◼   ► in web development history,

00:34:32 ◼   ► where everyone just kind of temporarily forgot

00:34:35 ◼   ► about making money, and granted this happens a lot,

00:34:37 ◼   ► but this was an especially bad time

00:34:39 ◼   ► that everyone was like, you know, let's make an API

00:34:41 ◼   ► and see what people mash up with it.

00:34:42 ◼   ► And the reality is that there's a reason

00:34:46 ◼   ► why so many new services these days don't have full APIs

00:34:51 ◼   ► and almost always don't at least launch with them

00:34:53 ◼   ► because that's just a really hard thing

00:34:56 ◼   ► as a business case to justify.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And it opens you up to a lot of risks of things like,

00:35:01 ◼   ► You know, like, what if Instagram had a full API

00:35:03 ◼   ► from the beginning, where you could read and write

00:35:05 ◼   ► and you could make your Instagram client?

00:35:07 ◼   ► Then what happens when they wanna change

00:35:08 ◼   ► the way the client works?

00:35:09 ◼   ► You know, there was that time in the mid 2000s

00:35:12 ◼   ► where APIs were expected and were the cool thing,

00:35:14 ◼   ► but that time is over and it's been over for a while

00:35:16 ◼   ► and that's never coming back because it's just,

00:35:19 ◼   ► it's so difficult from a business perspective

00:35:21 ◼   ► and from a control perspective,

00:35:22 ◼   ► it's so difficult to actually maintain that.

00:35:25 ◼   ► So, you know, we might expect Twitter

00:35:26 ◼   ► to someday go back to that or we might be mad

00:35:29 ◼   ► that they're not doing that now,

00:35:30 ◼   ► but the reality is it would be a very bad idea

00:35:33 ◼   ► for Twitter to ever do that again.

00:35:34 ◼   ► - That was a good move back,

00:35:36 ◼   ► the reason everyone was doing it back then

00:35:37 ◼   ► is because it's kind of like a wolf in sheep's clothing

00:35:40 ◼   ► where if you make something look like a protocol

00:35:45 ◼   ► or a piece of plumbing or part of the internet,

00:35:47 ◼   ► you can get traction among a certain set of people

00:35:51 ◼   ► that like, you know, we like,

00:35:53 ◼   ► the utopia we were thinking of is there, you know,

00:35:55 ◼   ► okay, we have some existing protocols

00:35:56 ◼   ► and we have some old protocols.

00:35:57 ◼   ► We have SSH, HTTP, FTP, NNTP, all these protocols, old and new,

00:36:03 ◼   ► all kind of mixing together in this too.

00:36:05 ◼   ► But now if we make these APIs with this REST format,

00:36:08 ◼   ► we can turn the web into a giant API machine,

00:36:11 ◼   ► and it'll just be like the internet.

00:36:13 ◼   ► But now people can innovate, and like you said,

00:36:15 ◼   ► the mashups and all that other stuff.

00:36:16 ◼   ► If you make it look like infrastructure,

00:36:18 ◼   ► people are attracted to it, especially technical people.

00:36:20 ◼   ► Because immediately your mind goes, what can I do with this?

00:36:22 ◼   ► If I had this API and that API, I could pull this and that,

00:36:24 ◼   ► and I could synthesize these things, and this is great.

00:36:26 ◼   ► And what you don't realize is that all those companies

00:36:29 ◼   ► with APIs are like lying in wait

00:36:31 ◼   ► and just hoping they become massively popular.

00:36:33 ◼   ► And then they can be like, aha, we've got you

00:36:34 ◼   ► because this wasn't really a piece of infrastructure.

00:36:36 ◼   ► Really, this is a wholly owned proprietary thing.

00:36:39 ◼   ► We are the only source of it.

00:36:40 ◼   ► No one else can copy it.

00:36:41 ◼   ► We have all the data.

00:36:42 ◼   ► We can, you know, you know what I mean?

00:36:43 ◼   ► And then Twitter basically, you know,

00:36:46 ◼   ► one succeeded in that strategy of looking like infrastructure

00:36:49 ◼   ► to people who weren't thinking about it too hard.

00:36:52 ◼   ► And then when everyone realized they're not,

00:36:54 ◼   ► it's too late, they've spread.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Like it's an, it's a good way to spread things

00:36:56 ◼   ► where if you had just made a website,

00:36:58 ◼   ► people would know like, you know, I mean,

00:37:00 ◼   ► just ask Myspace how that worked out.

00:37:02 ◼   ► If Myspace had tried to be a protocol first

00:37:04 ◼   ► and then turn the screws and turn it into a site,

00:37:05 ◼   ► I mean, then it really probably wouldn't have worked

00:37:07 ◼   ► for Myspace, but anyway,

00:37:08 ◼   ► it's much harder to get people to come to your site

00:37:11 ◼   ► and make that like as big as Facebook, right?

00:37:13 ◼   ► But everyone had APIs,

00:37:16 ◼   ► people were mixing them all together

00:37:18 ◼   ► and if any of them caught on,

00:37:20 ◼   ► you could lie and wait and say like,

00:37:21 ◼   ► I'm part of the internet.

00:37:23 ◼   ► This is not, I'm not a single private company

00:37:26 ◼   ► a single website, I'm invisible, I'm a protocol, I'm like app.net, and then grow to tremendous

00:37:31 ◼   ► size like that and then change your mind.

00:37:33 ◼   ► That's what everybody did, and I still think that strategy could work.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Like if you made something that looked like a protocol, everyone would forget the fact

00:37:39 ◼   ► that you're a private company and completely control it, and you could do exactly what

00:37:41 ◼   ► Twitter did again.

00:37:42 ◼   ► I think that strategy is not entirely dead because we'll all be fooled again by it.

00:37:47 ◼   ► I mean, we'd be the same with app.net, right?

00:37:50 ◼   ► Like this is slightly better, they're charging up front, but it was the same situation.

00:37:53 ◼   ► We would have all done it.

00:37:54 ◼   ► If app.net had become tremendously successful,

00:37:56 ◼   ► it would have been a small step up from Twitter,

00:37:58 ◼   ► but they would have ended up doing the same thing.

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00:39:22 ◼   ► It's kind of a shame they went with SAP.

00:39:24 ◼   ► In a report that values the size of the vendor,

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00:39:28 ◼   ► Igloo was praised for their responsiveness

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00:40:21 ◼   ► - Excellent.

00:40:23 ◼   ► So, Jon, I wanted to quickly ask you

00:40:25 ◼   ► what's going on with the review?

00:40:27 ◼   ► How's the initial feedback?

00:40:29 ◼   ► Did you have to make any big updates

00:40:31 ◼   ► or is it basically the status quo as usual?

00:40:34 ◼   ► - That's so last week, Casey.

00:40:35 ◼   ► We're still talking about that thing?

00:40:36 ◼   ► - Hey, you never know.

00:40:37 ◼   ► A week has passed.

00:40:38 ◼   ► It was like 24 hours or something like that

00:40:40 ◼   ► when we got to speak about it last.

00:40:42 ◼   ► - No, yeah, most of the updates come in the first 24.

00:40:45 ◼   ► I think I did one ebook update every couple of hours every time for a while, but it's

00:40:51 ◼   ► been quiet since then.

00:40:52 ◼   ► I only put in a couple of, one more update about core storage application, which, I mean,

00:41:00 ◼   ► we talked about this last week, the type of things that you can't test when the final

00:41:04 ◼   ► bits aren't out until after you publish your review, and also the type of thing that I

00:41:09 ◼   ► personally can't test because I don't have a lab full of computers.

00:41:11 ◼   ► It's just me here and I had loaner hardware from Apple which was useful, but it's still like a total of like five computers

00:41:17 ◼   ► You know many of which are the same vintage or similar

00:41:20 ◼   ► So I can't do the type of like we installed this OS and you know five different computers with you know

00:41:26 ◼   ► Ten different partition configurations each and both internal and external drives and determined, you know

00:41:31 ◼   ► So I still don't know under what circumstances does it decide to turn your volume into a core storage volume?

00:41:36 ◼   ► Does it sometimes doesn't do it other times I put a correction the most recent correction I put in was

00:41:41 ◼   ► This doesn't happen all the time

00:41:44 ◼   ► It happens under these scenarios

00:41:46 ◼   ► Didn't happen under this scenario and other people on Twitter like installing it to their machines with different partition

00:41:51 ◼   ► Arrangements and stuff and seeing when it doesn't doesn't happen

00:41:53 ◼   ► So I don't know if I had known that it was that weird like it basically happened on every and every

00:41:58 ◼   ► Installation scenario that I did in my test hardware

00:42:01 ◼   ► So that's why I thought it was done all the time and I asked Apple about it

00:42:04 ◼   ► and they were giving explanations of why they were doing it.

00:42:07 ◼   ► They didn't ever offer the information like,

00:42:08 ◼   ► "Oh, by the way, we don't actually do that all the time

00:42:10 ◼   ► "and these scenarios we won't."

00:42:11 ◼   ► So missing information to be clarified.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Basically what I'm trying to do is make it

00:42:15 ◼   ► so that if someone stumbles across this review

00:42:18 ◼   ► five years from now, or if I try to look something up

00:42:19 ◼   ► in the review five years from now,

00:42:21 ◼   ► I will see these little corrections in there

00:42:23 ◼   ► and understand that this was the way I thought things were

00:42:28 ◼   ► on the day of release or before,

00:42:30 ◼   ► but actually things were more complicated,

00:42:32 ◼   ► so don't take this as the final word.

00:42:34 ◼   ► But other than that, it's been fine.

00:42:37 ◼   ► There's been a big difference in feedback

00:42:39 ◼   ► over the years between these things.

00:42:40 ◼   ► It used to be that I would do one of these reviews

00:42:41 ◼   ► and I would have like 20 or 30 pages

00:42:44 ◼   ► of comments attached to them.

00:42:45 ◼   ► Now, not that many comments.

00:42:47 ◼   ► And most of the comments are no longer

00:42:49 ◼   ► discussions of the article.

00:42:51 ◼   ► They're just people complaining about what they do

00:42:52 ◼   ► or don't like about Yosemite, which is fine, I guess.

00:42:54 ◼   ► But it's definitely a change in commenter behavior

00:42:57 ◼   ► at Ars Technica, you know.

00:42:59 ◼   ► Lower volume of comments, maybe because they feel

00:43:00 ◼   ► like they have other avenues to talk back to me,

00:43:03 ◼   ► like Twitter or whatever,

00:43:04 ◼   ► and comments that aren't interested

00:43:06 ◼   ► in discussing the article,

00:43:07 ◼   ► but just are interested in,

00:43:08 ◼   ► hey everybody, let's talk about Yosemite,

00:43:09 ◼   ► how's it working for you?

00:43:10 ◼   ► I don't like this, I do like that,

00:43:11 ◼   ► I had this bug, I didn't have that bug.

00:43:13 ◼   ► Yeah, it's mostly done,

00:43:18 ◼   ► it's off the front page of ours,

00:43:19 ◼   ► it's slowly fading away.

00:43:20 ◼   ► - That's so sad.

00:43:23 ◼   ► - With the exception of comments,

00:43:24 ◼   ► does it seem like, is interest,

00:43:26 ◼   ► if you can say, has interest remained high

00:43:30 ◼   ► in recent years in the reviews,

00:43:32 ◼   ► or is that going up or down?

00:43:33 ◼   ► - It's going down.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Like, I mean, it's been going down for a couple years.

00:43:36 ◼   ► It's still not awful,

00:43:37 ◼   ► but definitely interest is going down.

00:43:39 ◼   ► I mean, you know, people are just more interested

00:43:40 ◼   ► in iOS these days.

00:43:41 ◼   ► I don't blame them.

00:43:42 ◼   ► It's the bigger platform.

00:43:42 ◼   ► It's more popular.

00:43:43 ◼   ► More people are likely to have it.

00:43:45 ◼   ► And yeah, so it's still doing fine and everything,

00:43:48 ◼   ► but it's like if you were to graph it

00:43:50 ◼   ► with the past four or five reviews I've written,

00:43:52 ◼   ► it's a steady downward slope.

00:43:54 ◼   ► - Do you think it's a problem with the fact

00:43:57 ◼   ► that it's now released every year,

00:43:58 ◼   ► and so like there's more frequent,

00:43:59 ◼   ► There's less of a build up to new OS releases

00:44:02 ◼   ► 'cause they're happening so much more frequently now.

00:44:05 ◼   ► - I don't think it's the frequency.

00:44:06 ◼   ► I think it's just the primacy of the Mac

00:44:09 ◼   ► in the Apple nerd space is just so much less

00:44:12 ◼   ► than it used to be.

00:44:12 ◼   ► They used to be all there was.

00:44:13 ◼   ► It was all about the Mac.

00:44:15 ◼   ► And then iOS has been just coming on strong.

00:44:18 ◼   ► And it's kind of generational.

00:44:21 ◼   ► Even when iOS was just insanely popular

00:44:24 ◼   ► and it long eclipsed the Mac

00:44:25 ◼   ► in terms of every possible number you can imagine,

00:44:28 ◼   ► early on, the people who were interested in reading about it

00:44:32 ◼   ► were the same people who had come up with Apple

00:44:34 ◼   ► as Apple's that company that makes Macs

00:44:36 ◼   ► and I'm super into Macs, right?

00:44:38 ◼   ► And then iOS is another thing that's interesting too.

00:44:40 ◼   ► Now there's generations of people

00:44:41 ◼   ► who barely even know the Mac exists.

00:44:44 ◼   ► They grew up thinking of Apple as the iPhone company

00:44:47 ◼   ► and they're super interested in reading about iOS

00:44:49 ◼   ► and they could care less about the Mac.

00:44:50 ◼   ► And I really see a big generational turnover.

00:44:52 ◼   ► In the people who are, you know, Apple nerds on the web,

00:44:57 ◼   ► There's whole generations of Apple nerds on the web now,

00:45:00 ◼   ► maybe, you know, I don't know if it's just one generation

00:45:02 ◼   ► or two or whatever, who think of Apple as the iOS company.

00:45:05 ◼   ► And that's what they're into.

00:45:07 ◼   ► In the same way that like the Mac people

00:45:09 ◼   ► replaced the Apple II people.

00:45:10 ◼   ► Like people thought like, I'm really into Apple.

00:45:12 ◼   ► It's all about the Apple II.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And this Mac thing looks like it's cool too.

00:45:14 ◼   ► Eventually there was sets of people like me

00:45:16 ◼   ► who entirely identified Apple as the company

00:45:18 ◼   ► that makes the Mac and could care less about the Apple II.

00:45:21 ◼   ► So it's a natural consequence of the different number

00:45:26 ◼   ► of these products as they sell.

00:45:27 ◼   ► - Well, the Mac is selling more than ever.

00:45:30 ◼   ► So do you think it's more of an issue of just like

00:45:33 ◼   ► the nerds not caring as much about each Mac update?

00:45:36 ◼   ► - Well, they sell way more iOS devices than Macs.

00:45:38 ◼   ► Like in terms of numbers, in terms of revenue,

00:45:40 ◼   ► in terms of profit, like every possible metric

00:45:43 ◼   ► that the iOS devices eclipse Macs easily.

00:45:46 ◼   ► - You know, maybe it's just me.

00:45:48 ◼   ► I've never once read anybody's long iOS reviews

00:45:54 ◼   ► because, I mean, part of it is like I'm involved

00:45:56 ◼   ► in the iOS beta process, so I already know

00:45:58 ◼   ► generally what's different, but I've never felt the need

00:46:01 ◼   ► because it seems like iOS changes are kind of more,

00:46:06 ◼   ► I don't know, they seem very relatively surface level

00:46:11 ◼   ► in what you could possibly really discuss about them.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Like, you get into a lot of the internals,

00:46:16 ◼   ► a lot of the reasoning, a lot of the under the hood stuff.

00:46:20 ◼   ► I don't see a lot of people doing that with iOS.

00:46:21 ◼   ► It's usually just like, here's an overview

00:46:23 ◼   ► of the features and visuals that have changed?

00:46:26 ◼   ► - Well, there's less poking you can do to iOS.

00:46:28 ◼   ► Like you can't get a terminal, you can,

00:46:30 ◼   ► but you know what I mean?

00:46:31 ◼   ► Like without going to more heroic lengths,

00:46:33 ◼   ► you can't get a terminal prompt

00:46:34 ◼   ► and start screwing around with things.

00:46:35 ◼   ► And moreover, if you do jailbreak and get a SSH in

00:46:39 ◼   ► and get a terminal prompt for screwing with things,

00:46:41 ◼   ► that has zero to do with most people's interaction

00:46:44 ◼   ► with the OS.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Whereas on the Mac, if you open a terminal,

00:46:46 ◼   ► a lot of people who use the Mac,

00:46:48 ◼   ► that is part of their experience of using the OS.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Like the terminal is not a jailbreak feature.

00:46:53 ◼   ► like you guys don't remember,

00:46:54 ◼   ► but back in the days before 10.0 came out,

00:46:57 ◼   ► like in all the developer previews, that was a hot topic.

00:47:00 ◼   ► Would Apple ship the terminal with, you know, OS X?

00:47:05 ◼   ► Would Apple ship it, but have it disabled or hidden?

00:47:09 ◼   ► Or, you know, like that was something we seriously

00:47:11 ◼   ► thought about because it's the old school Mac users saying,

00:47:13 ◼   ► you're not gonna sell a Mac with a command line or whatever.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Those of us who are Unix nerds are like,

00:47:17 ◼   ► please let them do this.

00:47:18 ◼   ► Like the whole point is it's supposed to be Unix

00:47:20 ◼   ► plus a Mac combined if they ship it without,

00:47:22 ◼   ► But we were like, but you know Apple,

00:47:23 ◼   ► maybe they'll just,

00:47:24 ◼   ► the terminal will be a developer download,

00:47:26 ◼   ► kind of like, you know,

00:47:28 ◼   ► the graph tools are,

00:47:29 ◼   ► graphics tools are now for Xcode or whatever.

00:47:31 ◼   ► Like you'll have to go to ADC to get them, whatever.

00:47:33 ◼   ► You'll be able to use it, but they won't advertise it.

00:47:34 ◼   ► But it turned out, it totally shipped with it.

00:47:36 ◼   ► They never got rid of it.

00:47:37 ◼   ► They never hid it.

00:47:38 ◼   ► It's in the utilities folder.

00:47:39 ◼   ► It's still there today.

00:47:41 ◼   ► All right, so,

00:47:42 ◼   ► but that's just not what iOS is like.

00:47:44 ◼   ► And the second aspect is,

00:47:46 ◼   ► I'm kind of cheating with these reviews.

00:47:49 ◼   ► I found myself doing it this year's WWDC.

00:47:51 ◼   ► I found myself going to the Metal sessions and taking notes and like, "What the hell

00:47:54 ◼   ► am I doing?

00:47:55 ◼   ► Metal isn't even a Mac technology."

00:47:56 ◼   ► But you just start thinking of, and that was a big point of this review, you start thinking

00:47:59 ◼   ► about all of these things as just part of Apple's platform.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Like I could have written that entire Swift section if this was an iOS review.

00:48:07 ◼   ► Metal is iOS only, but I'm writing about it as if it's an Apple technology because there's

00:48:11 ◼   ► nothing stopping it from appearing on the Mac, except for Apple's willingness to port

00:48:14 ◼   ► it to the GPUs that are available on the Mac, which granted are much more numerous and it'd

00:48:18 ◼   ► it would be much more difficult,

00:48:19 ◼   ► and there's much more reason for them to put it on iOS,

00:48:21 ◼   ► but like so many technologies apply to both of it,

00:48:23 ◼   ► a larger and larger portion of the review could have been,

00:48:27 ◼   ► I could change it to review iOS 8

00:48:29 ◼   ► and put a lot of that same stuff in there.

00:48:32 ◼   ► So I don't know, I don't know if that,

00:48:34 ◼   ► what that has to do with traffic numbers or anything.

00:48:36 ◼   ► I just think the Mac is less a focus,

00:48:41 ◼   ► even though so many things that are relevant to the Mac

00:48:43 ◼   ► are also relevant to iOS and vice versa,

00:48:45 ◼   ► it's still iOS is where everyone's eyes are.

00:48:48 ◼   ► Do you think it's because there's less to see on Mac

00:48:51 ◼   ► every year or because no one's paying attention?

00:48:54 ◼   ► - Well, this year there was tons to see.

00:48:55 ◼   ► I mean, this is the whole thing.

00:48:57 ◼   ► It looks totally different.

00:48:58 ◼   ► It's a lay person who could tell the difference, I think,

00:49:00 ◼   ► between Mavericks and Yosemite,

00:49:02 ◼   ► or at least tell that these are two different OSs

00:49:03 ◼   ► 'cause they just plain look different.

00:49:05 ◼   ► But I mean, there's just as much as, I mean, iOS 8,

00:49:09 ◼   ► when you look at it, it's like, oh, it looks like iOS 7.

00:49:12 ◼   ► What's even different?

00:49:13 ◼   ► And unless you know all the extensions,

00:49:14 ◼   ► don't people update, they're absolutely better

00:49:16 ◼   ► in this way or whatever, but it's really,

00:49:17 ◼   ► Like iOS 8 was a much more subtle change from 7 than Yosemite was from Maverick.

00:49:22 ◼   ► So I don't think that was the problem either.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Like if anything, people should be super bored by iOS 8 and really excited by Yosemite if

00:49:28 ◼   ► just based on like the sort of in your face wow factor of the changes because iOS 8 does

00:49:35 ◼   ► not in your face about almost anything.

00:49:38 ◼   ► You know to go back Marco you had said who writes a really big iOS 8 review?

00:49:42 ◼   ► A friend of the show, Rene Ritchie, did a pretty solid one for iMore that we should

00:49:47 ◼   ► definitely mention.

00:49:48 ◼   ► In fact, I believe it was Crashing Safari.

00:49:50 ◼   ► I don't remember if that was on the Mac or iOS, but the darn thing is a single page and

00:49:55 ◼   ► it's so darn big that it ended up causing issues for a lot of users.

00:50:00 ◼   ► That's how in-depth it was.

00:50:01 ◼   ► I concur with what you were saying, that it's harder to poke at iOS.

00:50:04 ◼   ► It's harder to get the depth that Jon does with the OS X review, but nevertheless, his

00:50:09 ◼   ► iOS 8 review was huge.

00:50:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, when I look at the iOS updates,

00:50:14 ◼   ► I always thank my lucky stars

00:50:16 ◼   ► that I'm not doing an iOS review.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Like maybe not so much in eight,

00:50:19 ◼   ► but like in seven and everything,

00:50:20 ◼   ► because there is so many changes,

00:50:22 ◼   ► so many things that are different, so many screens,

00:50:25 ◼   ► and just-

00:50:25 ◼   ► - All those screenshots you have to retake

00:50:27 ◼   ► every time there's a new beta?

00:50:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, you know, I don't know if it's better or worse

00:50:32 ◼   ► that you'd be filling your camera roll with screenshots

00:50:35 ◼   ► or that you don't have a good way to screenshot things

00:50:37 ◼   ► you'd have to like crop and, you know, anyway,

00:50:39 ◼   ► I guess it's kind of easier in that all your screenshots are full screen, you don't have

00:50:42 ◼   ► to worry about windows and backgrounds, especially on your side.

00:50:44 ◼   ► But anyway, various iOS updates have been like, "Wow, I'm glad I'm not reviewing this,"

00:50:49 ◼   ► because they added a ton of new features.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Because it was a young OS and they just added tons of things.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Everything changed.

00:50:56 ◼   ► There's very little.

00:50:57 ◼   ► The built-in apps changed.

00:50:58 ◼   ► The way you deal with the OS itself, like when they added multitasking and stuff, those

00:51:03 ◼   ► were big changes.

00:51:04 ◼   ► You expect that in the early versions of an OS.

00:51:06 ◼   ► Now it seems like it's settling down a little bit.

00:51:08 ◼   ► So now you have features like extensions,

00:51:11 ◼   ► which seem to be non-features at all.

00:51:12 ◼   ► You're just like, oh, I don't see anything different.

00:51:14 ◼   ► It's like, you gotta wait for the apps to update.

00:51:15 ◼   ► Then it'll be totally different, but just trust me.

00:51:17 ◼   ► But how do you really review that in an OS review?

00:51:19 ◼   ► You gotta talk about it speculatively.

00:51:22 ◼   ► - Maybe the difference that I'm perceiving,

00:51:25 ◼   ► or whether it's real or not,

00:51:28 ◼   ► maybe the difference I'm perceiving

00:51:29 ◼   ► is that the iOS reviews that I've seen

00:51:31 ◼   ► all seem to be extremely long.

00:51:34 ◼   ► I don't want a comprehensive overview of everything.

00:51:37 ◼   ► - Oh, 'cause that's like just a slideshow.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Like a lot of people do that, you know,

00:51:40 ◼   ► a gallery or a slideshow.

00:51:41 ◼   ► Here's every screen that's different, right?

00:51:43 ◼   ► I mean, and ours did that too.

00:51:44 ◼   ► Ours did a slideshow.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Like they asked me if I was gonna have galleries

00:51:48 ◼   ► in my review 'cause they have a gallery feature

00:51:49 ◼   ► where you can just take a whole bunch of photos

00:51:50 ◼   ► and have like a carousel that you flip through them,

00:51:52 ◼   ► right, on the page.

00:51:54 ◼   ► And I said, "No, I'm not gonna have any galleries

00:51:55 ◼   ► "'cause I'm old and the way I do things is I write words,

00:51:58 ◼   ► "then there's a screenshot, then with a caption,

00:52:00 ◼   ► "then I write more words, then there's a screenshot."

00:52:02 ◼   ► You know, it's like, it's interleaved.

00:52:04 ◼   ► Like it would never be like,

00:52:05 ◼   ► and here's 50 photos of this new app.

00:52:07 ◼   ► You know, even if I could put a caption

00:52:08 ◼   ► on every single one, that's not,

00:52:09 ◼   ► that's just not how I do a review.

00:52:11 ◼   ► But they, so since I didn't do one,

00:52:13 ◼   ► they did a slide show that showed essentially,

00:52:16 ◼   ► here's what this screen looked like in Mavericks,

00:52:17 ◼   ► here's what it looked like in Yosemite,

00:52:19 ◼   ► and I forget if each one had a caption or not.

00:52:21 ◼   ► But that gallery was tremendously popular.

00:52:23 ◼   ► Like a lot of people do want that out of a thing.

00:52:25 ◼   ► And the other thing you're talking about,

00:52:27 ◼   ► like a reference type thing,

00:52:28 ◼   ► those are the old days where you'd go to the bookstore

00:52:30 ◼   ► back when we had bookstores,

00:52:31 ◼   ► and there would be like, you know,

00:52:33 ◼   ► ultimate guide to Mac OS 8

00:52:37 ◼   ► or learn Mac OS 8 in 21 days or whatever.

00:52:40 ◼   ► And it would just be this gigantic paperback book

00:52:42 ◼   ► that would just take you through laboriously

00:52:44 ◼   ► every single feature at a time.

00:52:45 ◼   ► Here's how you rename a file in the Finder.

00:52:47 ◼   ► Here's how you move a file.

00:52:48 ◼   ► Here's how you copy a file.

00:52:49 ◼   ► Like just every single freaking thing you need to know

00:52:51 ◼   ► to use like essentially a manual for the OS.

00:52:53 ◼   ► And that's not a review at all.

00:52:55 ◼   ► That is a manual, right?

00:52:57 ◼   ► And there's a place for that as well.

00:52:58 ◼   ► But like these days,

00:53:00 ◼   ► No one's gonna write a book like that.

00:53:01 ◼   ► At least not, it's not gonna be out at the time

00:53:03 ◼   ► Yosemite is launched.

00:53:04 ◼   ► I get, probably something like that in bookstores,

00:53:06 ◼   ► but that's not what people are looking for.

00:53:07 ◼   ► And back in the day when I was on top of it

00:53:10 ◼   ► and when the OS was small,

00:53:11 ◼   ► I could pretty much document every single pixel that changed

00:53:14 ◼   ► and every single new keyboard shortcut and behavior.

00:53:16 ◼   ► But it's been years since Mac OS X

00:53:20 ◼   ► has been small enough for me to do that.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Now it's just too big.

00:53:22 ◼   ► And once I started to have to pick and choose

00:53:24 ◼   ► which things were important,

00:53:26 ◼   ► that was a big transition in my reviewing.

00:53:28 ◼   ► 'Cause going from 10.0 to 10.1,

00:53:30 ◼   ► I could try to find every single little thing,

00:53:31 ◼   ► 'cause there was like five things that changed,

00:53:33 ◼   ► except for it being faster and stuff, right?

00:53:35 ◼   ► But going from 10.4 to 10.5, forget it.

00:53:39 ◼   ► There was no way that I could fit everything in.

00:53:42 ◼   ► - Is that thunder?

00:53:44 ◼   ► - That is thunder.

00:53:45 ◼   ► I still have power though.

00:53:45 ◼   ► You'll be able to tell when I go out.

00:53:48 ◼   ► I get emails from my Synology downstairs

00:53:50 ◼   ► when the UPS kicks in.

00:53:53 ◼   ► It sends me an email and says,

00:53:54 ◼   ► "Synology is running on UPS power."

00:53:55 ◼   ► And then it sends me another email,

00:53:56 ◼   ► it says, "I'm back on regular power."

00:53:59 ◼   ► And when I get that, that means either someone plugged

00:54:02 ◼   ► in too many vacuum cleaners to the same circuit

00:54:04 ◼   ► and did a little power blip.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Or as we just had here earlier,

00:54:09 ◼   ► the houses on the other side of the street lost power

00:54:11 ◼   ► and our power flickered for a second.

00:54:13 ◼   ► So I know our power flickered because I got email about it

00:54:15 ◼   ► from my network attached storage device.

00:54:19 ◼   ► - See, that is technological advancement right there.

00:54:22 ◼   ► - That timing was flawless, well done.

00:54:26 ◼   ► You're gonna have fun editing this episode.

00:54:28 ◼   ► I'm just keeping that in.

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00:57:10 ◼   ► - All right, so let's talk a little bit about Yosemite.

00:57:13 ◼   ► I don't know why I said it like that,

00:57:14 ◼   ► but it sounded good in my head.

00:57:16 ◼   ► - What did Steven or Mike say?

00:57:17 ◼   ► Was it yo-es-ten?

00:57:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, yo-es-ten.

00:57:19 ◼   ► - That was amazing.

00:57:20 ◼   ► Steven, who yells at me for RetinaPad Mini, did I say RetinaPad Mini?

00:57:23 ◼   ► I meant RetinaPad Mini, said YoS 10.

00:57:26 ◼   ► And I yelled at him about this and he said, "Oh, it was an accident, dude."

00:57:29 ◼   ► Oh, I think it's better.

00:57:30 ◼   ► I think that's an improvement.

00:57:31 ◼   ► I think we should go with that, using YoS 10.

00:57:32 ◼   ► Well, I think so too.

00:57:33 ◼   ► But he's the king of the pedantic people when it comes to these sorts of things.

00:57:41 ◼   ► So we're going to talk about your "RIMAC" later.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Hi Steven.

00:57:44 ◼   ► But for now, let's talk about Yosemite.

00:57:48 ◼   ► So have you installed it, Marco?

00:57:50 ◼   ► Uh, no.

00:57:51 ◼   ► I have it on my laptop that I hardly ever use.

00:57:53 ◼   ► I have not installed it on my desktop for a reason that will make you angry.

00:57:59 ◼   ► I probably should know what you're alluding to.

00:58:01 ◼   ► Oh, because you're going to replace it?

00:58:03 ◼   ► Yeah, because Yosemite kind of apparently looks like crap on non-retina screens, so

00:58:09 ◼   ► I'm trying to never see it on a non-retina screen.

00:58:11 ◼   ► It doesn't look like crap.

00:58:13 ◼   ► It just doesn't look as nice.

00:58:16 ◼   ► It's so adorable for you guys who live—not you, Jon, I should say you, Marco—who lives

00:58:22 ◼   ► in this oh-so-mighty fine tower high up in the middle of the beautiful sea.

00:58:28 ◼   ► Oh, well, I will only look at things on my flick of the hair.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Retina screens.

00:58:33 ◼   ► I don't want to be—I don't want my actual retinas tarnished by non-retina screens.

00:58:39 ◼   ► Okay, I hate towers.

00:58:40 ◼   ► I have no hair.

00:58:41 ◼   ► I hate the water.

00:58:42 ◼   ► I'm over near the water.

00:58:43 ◼   ► You know what I mean.

00:58:44 ◼   ► You know what I mean.

00:58:45 ◼   ► Seriously, I have precisely zero retina max in my house and only a couple of people have

00:58:52 ◼   ► them at work.

00:58:53 ◼   ► Those of us who live in the real world have to look at Yosemite on regular screens.

00:58:58 ◼   ► And you know what?

00:58:59 ◼   ► I actually don't think it looks bad.

00:59:01 ◼   ► I will say, however, that there's so much white.

00:59:05 ◼   ► It's like white everywhere.

00:59:08 ◼   ► And I kind of miss having a little bit of contrast.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I do think it looks pretty, but gosh, especially since I've run multiple screens and I typically

00:59:18 ◼   ► don't use full screen mode for a lot of stuff, it's just white everywhere.

00:59:24 ◼   ► Where do you see all the white?

00:59:25 ◼   ► I've heard people say that, but that's not the impression that I get.

00:59:29 ◼   ► I have different impressions of the UI, but I guess there's less contrast, but I don't

00:59:34 ◼   ► see all the white.

00:59:36 ◼   ► Where are you seeing this white coming from where it wasn't before?

00:59:38 ◼   ► Well, here's a question.

00:59:39 ◼   ► Lucy, you are the most recent Windows user among us.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Are you a window maximizer?

00:59:47 ◼   ► Only for a couple of windows.

00:59:48 ◼   ► So I always run VMware Fusion, speaking of Windows, I always run that in a window, but

00:59:54 ◼   ► taking up an entire screen.

00:59:56 ◼   ► I find that it behaves better when it's in a window rather than when it's full screen.

01:00:02 ◼   ► My text editor of choice for my website, what I'm writing for that, which isn't that terribly

01:00:07 ◼   ► often, is Adam, judge as you will, I don't care, it works for me.

01:00:11 ◼   ► That's the GitHub one?

01:00:12 ◼   ► Yes.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Is it good, by the way?

01:00:14 ◼   ► I like it, but to be fair, I'm not a particularly heavy user of a text editor.

01:00:20 ◼   ► I don't have particularly involved or complex needs.

01:00:23 ◼   ► So those of you who are like face palming and like somebody in the chat is saying, "Yuck,

01:00:30 ◼   ► seriously?"

01:00:31 ◼   ► Yes, seriously, because you know what?

01:00:32 ◼   ► It works for me.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I don't have a lot of complex needs and it works just fine.

01:00:37 ◼   ► So that I run full screen, but just about everything else I run in a window.

01:00:41 ◼   ► So where is all the white?

01:00:42 ◼   ► Where are you seeing so much?

01:00:43 ◼   ► Any non-active window, which if you have a few of them on the screen, maybe they're gray.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Like I'm not a designer.

01:00:50 ◼   ► They are.

01:00:51 ◼   ► They're lighter gray maybe than they used to be.

01:00:53 ◼   ► And there's less contrast between the parts.

01:00:55 ◼   ► Like the window widgets go lighter gray.

01:00:58 ◼   ► There's not, doesn't contrast as much against the thing.

01:00:59 ◼   ► And even things like, you know, the window, like the toolbar thing, like in Safari or

01:01:03 ◼   ► whatever, is a little bit lighter and less of a gradient.

01:01:05 ◼   ► but I don't find it particularly blinding.

01:01:07 ◼   ► I still find it pleasing and nice,

01:01:09 ◼   ► and I think it's a nice aesthetic upgrade.

01:01:12 ◼   ► My one big complaint,

01:01:13 ◼   ► and I talked about it extensively in the review,

01:01:15 ◼   ► is the whole transparency issue.

01:01:17 ◼   ► The thrust of that section of the review was like,

01:01:23 ◼   ► here's what they're doing,

01:01:24 ◼   ► here's the technology behind it,

01:01:26 ◼   ► and here's how it manifests in the OS.

01:01:28 ◼   ► And then the question of why,

01:01:30 ◼   ► why are you doing this?

01:01:32 ◼   ► What's the point?

01:01:33 ◼   ► You've done this thing,

01:01:35 ◼   ► I see how you're doing it.

01:01:36 ◼   ► I see the different ways you're using it.

01:01:38 ◼   ► What are you trying to say?

01:01:39 ◼   ► What are you getting to?

01:01:40 ◼   ► What end is this transparency?

01:01:42 ◼   ► What is it behind the menu bar

01:01:44 ◼   ► that I desperately need to see?

01:01:46 ◼   ► Do I, you know, I don't need to see details,

01:01:48 ◼   ► but I need to see hints of the color of my desktop packet.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Like, what is that helping me?

01:01:52 ◼   ► All you're doing is like potentially impairing readability,

01:01:56 ◼   ► potentially making things ugly in exchange for dot, dot, dot.

01:02:01 ◼   ► And so I asked Apple this

01:02:05 ◼   ► And I pulled that also home quotes from WWDC,

01:02:08 ◼   ► which was public and everything.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Here's what they said in exchange for, you know,

01:02:11 ◼   ► the temperature and mood of your desktop background

01:02:14 ◼   ► leaking through into the things.

01:02:16 ◼   ► And by the way, this was discussed on the talk show

01:02:17 ◼   ► and lots of people were confused about it.

01:02:19 ◼   ► And I tried to clarify it in my review,

01:02:20 ◼   ► but maybe it was not enough sentences about it.

01:02:23 ◼   ► So there's two kinds of blending and vibrancy.

01:02:26 ◼   ► This transparency thing, one is in window blending

01:02:28 ◼   ► where you're scrolling up something behind the toolbar

01:02:30 ◼   ► and whatever it is you're scrolling up behind the toolbar

01:02:32 ◼   ► kind of like shows through the toolbar a little bit, right?

01:02:35 ◼   ► And the second one, the weirder one is,

01:02:38 ◼   ► I forget what it's called, I don't remember my own review.

01:02:41 ◼   ► But anyway, the other kind of transparency

01:02:43 ◼   ► is where it's composited with the other things

01:02:45 ◼   ► that are on the screen.

01:02:46 ◼   ► So like the sidebars have that kind of transparency.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Where if you have something with a sidebar

01:02:52 ◼   ► and you wave something around behind it,

01:02:53 ◼   ► like another window, you can kind of vaguely see

01:02:55 ◼   ► the thing you're waving around behind it

01:02:57 ◼   ► through the transparent thing.

01:02:58 ◼   ► You can do like control drag or something

01:03:00 ◼   ► so you don't bring it to the,

01:03:01 ◼   ► only the window in the front

01:03:02 ◼   ► has this transparent effect on it.

01:03:04 ◼   ► So you have to sort of drag a window behind something or drag the window in front back and forth in front of something

01:03:08 ◼   ► You can see that's going on right for that transparency mode where you can see the stuff that's behind the window

01:03:13 ◼   ► Apple also takes a

01:03:15 ◼   ► Touch of your desktop pattern and also mixes it into that right and it's subtle so that people don't even see it

01:03:22 ◼   ► if you don't point it out, but if you just take like a

01:03:26 ◼   ► Transparent I have little applications just as a you know a transfer of a light and dark

01:03:32 ◼   ► transparent windows that can just drag anywhere.

01:03:33 ◼   ► But if you take anything with a sidebar,

01:03:35 ◼   ► take a huge white text edit window,

01:03:37 ◼   ► put it behind it and put the transparent window over it.

01:03:39 ◼   ► You're like, all right, the only thing that's behind

01:03:40 ◼   ► this window is a totally empty 100% white thing, right?

01:03:44 ◼   ► And you'll put it over it.

01:03:44 ◼   ► And if you have like a very intense colored

01:03:47 ◼   ► desktop background, like one of Apple's things

01:03:49 ◼   ► where it shows grass or something

01:03:50 ◼   ► and everything's all green,

01:03:52 ◼   ► you'll notice that your sidebar is tinted green.

01:03:54 ◼   ► And you're like, why the hell is my sidebar tinted green?

01:03:56 ◼   ► The only thing behind this sidebar

01:03:58 ◼   ► is 100% white opaque window.

01:04:00 ◼   ► Where is the green coming out?

01:04:01 ◼   ► The answer is it's coming from your desktop background.

01:04:03 ◼   ► If you change your desktop background

01:04:04 ◼   ► to something that's all red,

01:04:05 ◼   ► suddenly your sidebar will be tinged with red.

01:04:07 ◼   ► Now, when you have something

01:04:09 ◼   ► other than a complete white behind it,

01:04:11 ◼   ► it's easy to miss this,

01:04:12 ◼   ► 'cause if you take like a little hint of brown,

01:04:14 ◼   ► 'cause your desktop is kind of brownish,

01:04:15 ◼   ► and you mix it with whatever is behind it,

01:04:17 ◼   ► like a picture that's behind it,

01:04:18 ◼   ► you'll never see that hint of brown.

01:04:20 ◼   ► But if you just have white behind it,

01:04:21 ◼   ► you'll see this hint of this other color.

01:04:23 ◼   ► And this does take the temperature and mood

01:04:27 ◼   ► or whatever of your desktop and put it into your windows.

01:04:29 ◼   ► but why?

01:04:30 ◼   ► I have a desktop pattern that I like at work,

01:04:32 ◼   ► which is like my son standing at a bunch of pumpkins.

01:04:35 ◼   ► So it's a lot of green, a lot of orange for the pumpkins

01:04:38 ◼   ► and then his blue jacket that he's wearing.

01:04:40 ◼   ► And now all of my sidebars are infected

01:04:42 ◼   ► with kind of this dull orange, you know, rusty tinge.

01:04:47 ◼   ► I love that desktop picture work.

01:04:48 ◼   ► I do not like a rusty orange tinge

01:04:50 ◼   ► on all of my menus and sidebar.

01:04:53 ◼   ► So I'm faced with a choice, change my desktop pattern,

01:04:56 ◼   ► picture, which is now leaking into all of my windows

01:04:58 ◼   ► or internal transparency.

01:04:59 ◼   ► And it's kind of like working as designed.

01:05:03 ◼   ► It is changing the mood of my desktop,

01:05:06 ◼   ► but not for the better, in my opinion.

01:05:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, that's,

01:05:11 ◼   ► it's so weird to me because I look at this

01:05:14 ◼   ► and I genuinely think, wow, this really is pretty.

01:05:17 ◼   ► And I think to myself, I like the look of it.

01:05:21 ◼   ► And then two seconds later,

01:05:22 ◼   ► I look at maybe the other screen

01:05:24 ◼   ► because I'm a two-screen kind of guy.

01:05:26 ◼   ► And that's where all the non-active windows are.

01:05:29 ◼   ► And yes, maybe it's gray, it's white, whatever,

01:05:32 ◼   ► it doesn't matter.

01:05:33 ◼   ► The point is there's no contrast.

01:05:34 ◼   ► It's just this like wall of very, very, very,

01:05:36 ◼   ► very light gray.

01:05:38 ◼   ► And that I don't care for.

01:05:39 ◼   ► But generally speaking, I do like the look of it.

01:05:42 ◼   ► It does seem more modern, it seems nice.

01:05:46 ◼   ► It's a little creepy going over to windows

01:05:49 ◼   ► and seeing, what is the metro?

01:05:53 ◼   ► - Herroglass.

01:05:54 ◼   ► - That's what I'm thinking of, thank you.

01:05:55 ◼   ► - I know this and you're done.

01:05:56 ◼   ► - I don't know.

01:05:57 ◼   ► So anyway, I look at the arrow and I'm like,

01:05:59 ◼   ► oh look, that's, oh no, no wait,

01:06:00 ◼   ► that's been that way for a while.

01:06:02 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:06:03 ◼   ► So they all kind of blend together a little better now.

01:06:06 ◼   ► But all in all, I like the look, even though it's weird.

01:06:10 ◼   ► I like a lot of the new features,

01:06:12 ◼   ► like the SMS relay that I was talking about.

01:06:15 ◼   ► That's really awesome.

01:06:16 ◼   ► But I mean, I don't know, it's new, it's cool.

01:06:20 ◼   ► I enjoy it, thumbs up.

01:06:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm a little worried looking at this.

01:06:24 ◼   ► You know, sometimes when you introduce a new design,

01:06:27 ◼   ► it takes people a while to really adjust to it

01:06:30 ◼   ► 'cause it's so shockingly different from the last one.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Like iOS 7, when that was unveiled,

01:06:35 ◼   ► it's like, whoa, this is so different.

01:06:37 ◼   ► But eventually people are like, this is really good.

01:06:41 ◼   ► I think heavy use of translucency in desktop interfaces

01:06:45 ◼   ► with overlapping windows is questionable.

01:06:47 ◼   ► It's always been questionable.

01:06:48 ◼   ► It was questionable when Windows Vista did it,

01:06:50 ◼   ► what, a decade ago now.

01:06:52 ◼   ► That's kinda sad actually, but anyway.

01:06:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:06:55 ◼   ► We are so old.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Looking at this, I think it's kind of up in the air,

01:07:01 ◼   ► like is this really a good idea?

01:07:03 ◼   ► And I don't think anyone's looking at this and saying,

01:07:05 ◼   ► this looks amazing, everything about this

01:07:07 ◼   ► is such a good idea.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Like I think it's a lot more measured.

01:07:10 ◼   ► It's like, well, some of this looks good,

01:07:12 ◼   ► some of this is kinda, I don't know what they're doing,

01:07:14 ◼   ► and I guess maybe we'll get used to it.

01:07:16 ◼   ► Like is anybody really enthusiastic about the design?

01:07:18 ◼   ► I haven't heard it.

01:07:19 ◼   ► - I have this to say for it.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Like if you look at the screenshots,

01:07:22 ◼   ► If you've scrolled through my review as many times as I have, just scrolling through, looking

01:07:26 ◼   ► at things and stuff like that, the screenshots in the Yosemite review I think are the most

01:07:32 ◼   ► visually interesting of any review.

01:07:35 ◼   ► Because all the other reviews, toolbars look like toolbars, window chrome look like window

01:07:40 ◼   ► chrome, but never change.

01:07:41 ◼   ► In this review, of course I'm explicitly taking pictures of the window with different things

01:07:44 ◼   ► behind it, with different things scrolling up into it.

01:07:46 ◼   ► They look amazing to me, as sort of interesting works of art.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I love when I scroll through I love the crazy rainbow colors through this through these things like it looks

01:07:57 ◼   ► It's pretty to me like obviously I made these screenshots to be I'm emphasizing

01:08:02 ◼   ► I'm picking the most extreme scenario to show you what your windows might look like and

01:08:05 ◼   ► Partially I'm doing it to show how bad it is like for example in the Safari screenshot where I show the different rainbow colored windows

01:08:10 ◼   ► Like this is all the same window. I'm just changing tabs look how crazily different the window looks

01:08:14 ◼   ► But if you just look at it in isolation as pieces of art or even like the docks on different backgrounds

01:08:18 ◼   ► They all look really nice and interesting like so I can that was the other reasoning like we're doing this because we want to

01:08:23 ◼   ► Let you control the mood of your OS by changing your desktop picture and also we're doing this

01:08:27 ◼   ► So that things look pretty like the same reason you do anything. It's like fashion like we want it to look pretty

01:08:31 ◼   ► I think it does look pretty in a lot of scenarios and

01:08:34 ◼   ► The thing is I think they just went a little bit over the line

01:08:38 ◼   ► I think I put this in the review like this habit they have of

01:08:41 ◼   ► Trying to do something going too far and then having to back it off

01:08:46 ◼   ► They did it in iOS 7 with the super thin fonts and backed it off before release and

01:08:49 ◼   ► You know, I did they back up any stuff in iOS 8 maybe a little bit more

01:08:53 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't know the details but in OS 10 they've done it like crazy in 10.0 and in the developer previews

01:08:59 ◼   ► They had a super translucent inactive title bar in all windows and they backed that off because it was a bad idea

01:09:03 ◼   ► They had all sorts of other kinds of pinstripes and translucency that were just way too strong that they had to back off later

01:09:09 ◼   ► Even the translucent menu bar, which I railed against and thought was ridiculous

01:09:14 ◼   ► They backed off on that and added a checkbox for it, right?

01:09:16 ◼   ► So I mean maybe this is just the way you go, you know

01:09:19 ◼   ► Go too far and then take it back a notch instead of being too timid

01:09:21 ◼   ► But I think they've essentially done it again. I think that only went a little bit too far

01:09:25 ◼   ► Like I like the translucent dock

01:09:27 ◼   ► I think that is a perfect use of hey make it pretty and have crazy colors behind it

01:09:31 ◼   ► But you can still see your icons because it's pretty chunky like it's huge icons

01:09:35 ◼   ► Maybe when you get it smaller gets worse. They could have had the opacity increases

01:09:39 ◼   ► They got smaller if they wanted to be clever

01:09:41 ◼   ► But I think I'm fine with that.

01:09:43 ◼   ► The translucent title menu bar, I really don't like.

01:09:46 ◼   ► I would have wished they had a check mark there,

01:09:47 ◼   ► but it's not the end of the world.

01:09:49 ◼   ► But the sidebars are what kill me

01:09:50 ◼   ► because like using Outlook all day at work,

01:09:54 ◼   ► I don't want to see this muddy, dingy sidebar

01:09:58 ◼   ► where some text is doing a vibrancy blend

01:10:00 ◼   ► and some text isn't.

01:10:01 ◼   ► And when you select things, it gets bold.

01:10:02 ◼   ► And it's just like the people who made Outlook

01:10:04 ◼   ► never designed their app with that in mind.

01:10:06 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden they find themselves

01:10:07 ◼   ► running on Yosemite and their entire sidebar

01:10:09 ◼   ► I just totally screwed over and looking ridiculous.

01:10:12 ◼   ► And I'm looking at it every day and it's like Casey said,

01:10:14 ◼   ► it's lower contrast now than it used to be.

01:10:16 ◼   ► It's muddier than it used to be.

01:10:18 ◼   ► And I'm faced with the awkward decision

01:10:19 ◼   ► about changing a desktop picture I like

01:10:21 ◼   ► because it's infecting my windows.

01:10:23 ◼   ► So they're so close.

01:10:24 ◼   ► Like if there was just one checkbox to say,

01:10:26 ◼   ► no translucent menu bar, no translucent sidebars,

01:10:28 ◼   ► everything else about the system I think is great.

01:10:30 ◼   ► I think the buttons look way better.

01:10:32 ◼   ► I even like the little skinny progress bars.

01:10:34 ◼   ► I think it looks clean and crisp.

01:10:35 ◼   ► I like the window widgets,

01:10:36 ◼   ► even though I keep moving the little things

01:10:38 ◼   ► with my eyeglasses because of chromatic aberration.

01:10:41 ◼   ► - Well, did you see there was that thing,

01:10:43 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett posted a pretty good photo,

01:10:44 ◼   ► I think it was him, that it actually,

01:10:47 ◼   ► like the X is actually off center in the bubble.

01:10:51 ◼   ► - It's just sub pixel rendering for that.

01:10:53 ◼   ► It's not actually off center.

01:10:54 ◼   ► - No, I think it actually is.

01:10:56 ◼   ► I think it's a half point off,

01:10:59 ◼   ► so on retina screens it's actually one pixel off.

01:11:01 ◼   ► - Someone sent in a screenshot of the actual pixels,

01:11:04 ◼   ► like from Pixy.

01:11:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:11:06 ◼   ► and it was centered, but due to subpixel,

01:11:09 ◼   ► if you look at the picture elements, it gets off center.

01:11:12 ◼   ► But anyway, the chromatic aberration with my glasses

01:11:14 ◼   ► trumps all of that.

01:11:15 ◼   ► I can move that circle so the X is practically

01:11:17 ◼   ► poking out of the side of it.

01:11:18 ◼   ► - You can't just like turn your convergence knob

01:11:20 ◼   ► in your head and fix it?

01:11:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:22 ◼   ► - No, it's not that, that's not how it works.

01:11:24 ◼   ► Light enters the lens and has to enter the pupil

01:11:27 ◼   ► and all that stuff, and anyway.

01:11:29 ◼   ► That's a whole separate issue.

01:11:29 ◼   ► I almost put that in the review,

01:11:31 ◼   ► but I thought it would have been a distraction,

01:11:32 ◼   ► but I have been tweeting about it.

01:11:33 ◼   ► People don't know what we're talking about.

01:11:35 ◼   ► The window widgets in Mavericks are solid primary colors,

01:11:39 ◼   ► red, yellow, and green, and different colors

01:11:43 ◼   ► bend different amounts when they go through lenses.

01:11:46 ◼   ► And the little glyphs inside these circles

01:11:48 ◼   ► are completely black.

01:11:50 ◼   ► So if you have glasses, powerful glasses,

01:11:52 ◼   ► and you turn your head so that the red light comes in

01:11:55 ◼   ► at a different angle, the red, the green,

01:11:58 ◼   ► and the yellow widgets will move,

01:12:00 ◼   ► but the black will not move as much.

01:12:02 ◼   ► So what it looks like to you, what it looks like

01:12:03 ◼   ► It looks like the X that's inside the red circle looks like that X is moving to the side

01:12:07 ◼   ► And so now the X is touching the left edge of the circle now the X is touching the right edge of the circle now the X

01:12:11 ◼   ► Is touching the top of the circle like you want the X to be centered?

01:12:14 ◼   ► But as you move your head the X seems to move around what's really happening is that the circle is moving around the X was kind

01:12:18 ◼   ► Of staying still, but either way that will link to the Wikipedia article on chromatic aberration

01:12:23 ◼   ► This is just how lenses in light work

01:12:25 ◼   ► This is an effect that is emphasized by the fact that is just plain flat red instead of being like the little jewel like

01:12:32 ◼   ► Specular highlighted reddish thing where it is much less visible so a lot and even if you don't have glasses what Marco was talking

01:12:39 ◼   ► About is if you just look at the pixels. I know on the sub for sub pixel rendering

01:12:44 ◼   ► it's going to be off by at least a partial sub pixel and

01:12:46 ◼   ► Marco seems to think that it's also off by one hairline half a point pixel on retina

01:12:52 ◼   ► Which I'm not sure about but it wouldn't surprise me if they just didn't have the right number of pixels so anyway

01:12:56 ◼   ► I don't fault the design for that

01:12:59 ◼   ► I think the design looks great and people with glasses all the colors are always shifting

01:13:04 ◼   ► I mean everyone with glasses knows we used to look at CRT's you could

01:13:07 ◼   ► Deconverge the edges of the screen and see like a red line on one edge of the screen in the blue line on the other

01:13:11 ◼   ► Edge like that's just the way glasses work. I would I would not design an OS around avoiding that

01:13:16 ◼   ► There's no avoiding it a white square will demonstrate

01:13:19 ◼   ► misconvergence if you tilt your head and have powerful enough glasses, so we glasses wearers just deal with it and

01:13:26 ◼   ► Everyone else, you know, I think that's fine.

01:13:29 ◼   ► I guess that's why I didn't put it in the review

01:13:31 ◼   ► 'cause I knew about it from a long time ago,

01:13:33 ◼   ► but I'm like, it's kind of like,

01:13:34 ◼   ► I didn't wanna make another Bendgate type thing.

01:13:36 ◼   ► Like Yosemite comes with a feature

01:13:38 ◼   ► that causes window widgets to leave their circles.

01:13:40 ◼   ► It's like, it's just physics, guys, chill.

01:13:43 ◼   ► - It could be a really advanced parallax feature.

01:13:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I disable parallax on my phone too.

01:13:48 ◼   ► I don't need any extra elements

01:13:50 ◼   ► that are moving in relation to each other.

01:13:52 ◼   ► - So going back a minute before we move on,

01:13:55 ◼   ► let me back a minute to the blur being potentially annoying

01:13:58 ◼   ► or being a downside.

01:14:00 ◼   ► Certain designs, like if you look at the design

01:14:02 ◼   ► of Windows Phone 7 and the kind of Metro design

01:14:06 ◼   ► that brought in, it has a lot of downsides

01:14:08 ◼   ► and just like the design language it creates

01:14:12 ◼   ► has certain limitations with things like

01:14:15 ◼   ► showing complex navigation and showing things

01:14:18 ◼   ► being tappable versus not and things like that.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Like there's certain challenges that

01:14:23 ◼   ► that entire design language, that entire design style

01:14:26 ◼   ► just has certain built-in shortcomings

01:14:29 ◼   ► that like it is not possible to design X

01:14:32 ◼   ► well in that style.

01:14:34 ◼   ► Every design style has things like this.

01:14:37 ◼   ► Do you think the iOS 7-like aesthetic

01:14:40 ◼   ► and the way that it has been kind of half taken

01:14:44 ◼   ► for Yosemite, do you think that requires the blur

01:14:49 ◼   ► in its language, you know, to look right

01:14:52 ◼   ► or to be harmonious with the aluminium

01:14:55 ◼   ► and everything else around it.

01:14:57 ◼   ► Do you think it requires that?

01:14:59 ◼   ► Or do you think the blur is just a cost that we have

01:15:04 ◼   ► when building certain types of interfaces

01:15:06 ◼   ► with this new style that we're just gonna have to live with?

01:15:09 ◼   ► Or do you think they could have done something else there

01:15:11 ◼   ► that wouldn't just totally look crappy?

01:15:13 ◼   ► - You could have gotten the family resemblance

01:15:16 ◼   ► by using that blur in the places

01:15:18 ◼   ► that were already translucent.

01:15:19 ◼   ► So use it on the dock, obviously.

01:15:21 ◼   ► use it on the little overlays that come

01:15:22 ◼   ► when you change the screen brightness or volume, right?

01:15:25 ◼   ► Use it on like floating palettes

01:15:28 ◼   ► or like the pull down menus and stuff.

01:15:30 ◼   ► That effect, which is not just a blur,

01:15:32 ◼   ► it's a blur plus a pulling forward of certain colors

01:15:36 ◼   ► and increasing saturation in certain areas.

01:15:38 ◼   ► That is an aesthetically pleasing effect that adds interest

01:15:41 ◼   ► without taking away readability,

01:15:43 ◼   ► because that's the whole point of the thing.

01:15:44 ◼   ► It's like we want to show what's behind it,

01:15:46 ◼   ► but we don't want what's behind it to interfere,

01:15:48 ◼   ► so we have this crazy effect.

01:15:49 ◼   ► It's all over iOS 7 for transient things.

01:15:51 ◼   ► It could be on Yosemite for transient things as well.

01:15:55 ◼   ► Where you get into trouble is when you start making it part

01:15:57 ◼   ► of permanent interface elements

01:15:58 ◼   ► like the sidebars and toolbars.

01:16:00 ◼   ► The toolbars, I can see what they're doing there

01:16:03 ◼   ► because if you just made the toolbar opaque,

01:16:06 ◼   ► as I said in the review, completely opaque,

01:16:08 ◼   ► it still looks pretty handsome.

01:16:10 ◼   ► It's a nice design, but it's also kind of plain.

01:16:12 ◼   ► And the in-window blending, as annoying as it can be

01:16:15 ◼   ► and as distracting as it can be,

01:16:17 ◼   ► and sometimes as ugly as it can be,

01:16:18 ◼   ► also sometimes adds interest and has less of a chance of impairing readability

01:16:22 ◼   ► because it's not a lot of words and toolbars like it's a bunch of big fat

01:16:24 ◼   ► buttons the buttons are still opaque you're not really hurting readability

01:16:28 ◼   ► the sidebars are just a bridge too far because they're filled with text you are

01:16:31 ◼   ► hurting readability and it's such a huge part of the application like a new

01:16:35 ◼   ► Safari window the toolbar is 100% gray because you haven't scrolled anything up

01:16:39 ◼   ► behind it yet or any web page scroll to the top like there's nothing behind it

01:16:42 ◼   ► yet it's just you have a chance for it to be 100% gray but the sidebar in

01:16:45 ◼   ► Outlook is forever infected by my desktop pattern and possibly even worse infected if there's nothing behind it except for the desktop or some other

01:16:51 ◼   ► Crazy window behind it. So I think you could have gotten the family resemblance

01:16:56 ◼   ► without

01:16:58 ◼   ► Going as far as they did but I think what more what they were going for is

01:17:02 ◼   ► How do we make this interesting and someone said hey look at this?

01:17:06 ◼   ► I can mix colors into the parts of the UI and it is kind of daring and like

01:17:10 ◼   ► Like the arrow glass which we talked about which is like kind of like what OS 10 did

01:17:14 ◼   ► I forget what it was in 10.0 or in DP 3 or DP 4 or something

01:17:17 ◼   ► Where like I said any window that was inactive its tile bar was kind of arrow glassy

01:17:22 ◼   ► They didn't have the they didn't have the ability to blur back then because it would have taken it been too slow

01:17:26 ◼   ► But they just made it super transparent like it really looked like frosted glass like 10% opacity, right?

01:17:32 ◼   ► But you know Yosemite doesn't do that. Yosemite doesn't make every single title bar translucent so you can see what's behind it

01:17:38 ◼   ► It makes the title bar is 100% opaque until something scrolls up behind it if you happen to do in window blending and

01:17:43 ◼   ► and developers can choose to do that or not.

01:17:45 ◼   ► It's not like Aero Glass.

01:17:47 ◼   ► Aero Glass was a bridge too far.

01:17:48 ◼   ► I hate seeing people's Windows machines

01:17:51 ◼   ► that have Aero Glass,

01:17:51 ◼   ► 'cause they just look like a damn mess.

01:17:53 ◼   ► It's like, it's just too much.

01:17:55 ◼   ► Sidebars are also too much,

01:17:56 ◼   ► but not every window has a sidebar.

01:17:59 ◼   ► And you know, it's not like they took the entire OS

01:18:03 ◼   ► and said, "Everything you see through."

01:18:05 ◼   ► They just made maybe one or two, too many things

01:18:09 ◼   ► show what's behind them for no reason.

01:18:11 ◼   ► - See, I like the transparency in principle,

01:18:15 ◼   ► but I agree with you.

01:18:16 ◼   ► I think it's been turned up too high, if you will,

01:18:19 ◼   ► and it needs to be backed off a bit.

01:18:22 ◼   ► - And it's not even up too high.

01:18:24 ◼   ► It's like, it was, I think that it's the right amount.

01:18:26 ◼   ► It's just like, like I said in the review,

01:18:28 ◼   ► if you're developing an application,

01:18:30 ◼   ► it's this actually ties into the extension section,

01:18:32 ◼   ► believe it or not.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Like the old bad world of extensions is like,

01:18:35 ◼   ► I write a great app and then someone comes along

01:18:37 ◼   ► and jumps into the memory image of my process

01:18:40 ◼   ► and start screwing with it.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Like I wrote an app, I debugged it, I tested it,

01:18:45 ◼   ► I'm sure it works correctly,

01:18:46 ◼   ► and then you're gonna jump into my code

01:18:48 ◼   ► and put a jump instruction there

01:18:50 ◼   ► and jump off into some other section of code

01:18:51 ◼   ► and then jump back there

01:18:52 ◼   ► after you change the state of something in my program.

01:18:54 ◼   ► I can't defend against that.

01:18:55 ◼   ► How can I debug something

01:18:57 ◼   ► when someone is modifying my code while it's running?

01:19:00 ◼   ► Like I have no idea who these people are,

01:19:01 ◼   ► what their software does,

01:19:02 ◼   ► what it's doing to my application, it's unsupportable.

01:19:05 ◼   ► And that's why people hate extensions

01:19:07 ◼   ► that are memory patching extensions.

01:19:09 ◼   ► screw, you know, because as a software developer,

01:19:11 ◼   ► it's like the worst thing in the world.

01:19:12 ◼   ► It's like, look, debugging my own program

01:19:13 ◼   ► with code that I wrote is hard enough

01:19:15 ◼   ► on top of debugging the OS libraries

01:19:17 ◼   ► and everything like that.

01:19:17 ◼   ► But now you're telling me that while my perfectly debugged

01:19:20 ◼   ► nice program is running, some other program

01:19:22 ◼   ► that someone who I never met wrote

01:19:23 ◼   ► is gonna jump into my program and change how it behaves?

01:19:26 ◼   ► That's crazy, it's unsupportable, right?

01:19:28 ◼   ► Well, if you're a designer and you say,

01:19:31 ◼   ► I'm gonna design an application

01:19:32 ◼   ► and it's going to look like this

01:19:34 ◼   ► and I'm gonna make sure everything is nice

01:19:35 ◼   ► and I'm gonna make sure all the text is readable

01:19:37 ◼   ► and all the interactions are nice or whatever,

01:19:38 ◼   ► And then I have no control over what the background

01:19:41 ◼   ► of my sidebar is, it's up to whatever's behind that window

01:19:46 ◼   ► and whatever the person's desktop background is.

01:19:48 ◼   ► And I'm just relying on the system to keep my text legible

01:19:51 ◼   ► and not look ugly.

01:19:52 ◼   ► That's not as untenable as memory patching extensions

01:19:56 ◼   ► 'cause it doesn't crash your app.

01:19:57 ◼   ► But from a design perspective, it's almost untenable.

01:19:59 ◼   ► You're like, I can't, you know,

01:20:01 ◼   ► if you don't even give me the option

01:20:03 ◼   ► to make that completely opaque,

01:20:04 ◼   ► I feel like I just can't use a sidebar anymore.

01:20:06 ◼   ► I just have to use a different UI element

01:20:09 ◼   ► because I do not want,

01:20:10 ◼   ► I can't control what you're going to put in my window.

01:20:12 ◼   ► How am I supposed to design it when I can't control that?

01:20:15 ◼   ► - Anything else on Yosemite?

01:20:17 ◼   ► - I have tons more on Yosemite, but not for today.

01:20:19 ◼   ► - That's fine.

01:20:20 ◼   ► I wanted to very quickly talk about Apple Pay

01:20:22 ◼   ► and complain that I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

01:20:25 ◼   ► And that was most of the reason for bringing it up.

01:20:27 ◼   ► The other part of the reason I wanted to bring it up,

01:20:29 ◼   ► the other part of the reason I wanted to bring it up

01:20:30 ◼   ► is it struck me just a few minutes ago.

01:20:33 ◼   ► It seems to me a little odd

01:20:35 ◼   ► that neither Target nor Home Depot, who arguably need Apple Pay the most, since they seem to

01:20:40 ◼   ► be leaking like a sieve when it comes to credit card numbers, neither of them are supported

01:20:44 ◼   ► right now, which is a bummer.

01:20:45 ◼   ► Well, there's a pretty big downside to this for them, and that is that the way they used

01:20:50 ◼   ► to run credit cards, they could automatically track you and everything you bought, identified

01:20:55 ◼   ► by your credit card number and the name that was read through the readers. And so they

01:20:59 ◼   ► They were, I don't know that they did this, but they probably did.

01:21:04 ◼   ► They had the ability to make money off of that and market to you in some way or at least

01:21:11 ◼   ► track what you were doing and sell that data to somebody.

01:21:13 ◼   ► So Apple Pay actually removes a revenue stream from these people.

01:21:17 ◼   ► And so I can totally see why certain vendors are not going to be interested in doing this.

01:21:23 ◼   ► And eventually they'll probably be pressured into doing it anyway, but I can see why they

01:21:27 ◼   ► wouldn't want to be launch partners at least and wouldn't want to do it sooner than they

01:21:30 ◼   ► have to because they depend on being creepy as part of their business model and Apple

01:21:35 ◼   ► is taking away one way that they can be creepy.

01:21:37 ◼   ► Well, yes, but they already have alternate ways of being creepy which is their shoot.

01:21:43 ◼   ► It's like a shopping cart app. I forget the name of it now and it's going to drive me

01:21:47 ◼   ► nuts but basically there's an app that you can get and you can scan barcodes while you're

01:21:54 ◼   ► standing in the store and it will selectively issue you coupons.

01:22:01 ◼   ► And so then when you go to check out, it puts up a QR code, Cartwheel, thank you Friday

01:22:06 ◼   ► Pants in the chat, interesting name by the way, it will show a QR code that they scan

01:22:14 ◼   ► on the Cartwheel app and then that will give you money off.

01:22:17 ◼   ► And granted it's nice for the consumer because you get a little bit of a discount, but I

01:22:21 ◼   ► I am quite confident they're doing exactly what you described, which is tracking that,

01:22:26 ◼   ► "Okay, Aaron and I went in and we looked at this thing and it didn't have a discount.

01:22:30 ◼   ► We looked at this thing and it didn't have a discount, but we looked at that thing and

01:22:33 ◼   ► it did have a discount," and piecing that all together.

01:22:37 ◼   ► Wasn't it Target that ended up telling somebody's dad that his daughter was pregnant?

01:22:43 ◼   ► Yeah, there was that story.

01:22:44 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:45 ◼   ► Yeah, they sent the house diaper coupons or something like that because the daughter had

01:22:50 ◼   ► had gone to Target and bought pregnancy tests or something along those lines. I forget exactly

01:22:55 ◼   ► what the details were. So you make a very good point, which actually I hadn't considered.

01:23:00 ◼   ► But nevertheless, I'm just bummed that I'm looking at the list of people that are accepting

01:23:07 ◼   ► Apple Pay. And I occasionally go to McDonald's. I actually happen to really like their breakfast.

01:23:14 ◼   ► I more often go to Panera Bread but haven't been back since Monday. We already spent all

01:23:18 ◼   ► of our money at Babies R Us. I know. Well I'm saying I haven't been there in a

01:23:23 ◼   ► couple of weeks. I haven't been to Panera in two days it's really rough. It's

01:23:27 ◼   ► terrible. We spent all of our money at Babies R Us a week or so ago, maybe two

01:23:31 ◼   ► weeks ago. I was actually at a Walgreens just a few days back but it was like

01:23:36 ◼   ► Sunday. So, man, it's terrible. I haven't used it yet. I don't know what to do.

01:23:41 ◼   ► Apparently I have to go buy some stuff I don't need. I assume you haven't used it,

01:23:44 ◼   ► Marco? I used it once at Whole Foods yesterday or something. Oh and how'd it go? Tell me about it.

01:23:50 ◼   ► It was great. What I what I was really

01:23:52 ◼   ► Incredibly impressed by was how insanely fast it was like so ever since I started using touch ID on a regular basis on my phone

01:24:00 ◼   ► My my typical thing is I pull the phone out of my pocket and as I'm pulling out of my pocket

01:24:05 ◼   ► My thumb is already on the home button and has already tapped it

01:24:08 ◼   ► So it is unlocking as I'm lifting it up

01:24:10 ◼   ► So by the time I raise it up to my face level or whatever level I'm using it at

01:24:14 ◼   ► It is almost always unlocking by then or has already unlocked by then.

01:24:19 ◼   ► So I just did this instinctively.

01:24:20 ◼   ► I raised it up and I saw on screen my credit card for a split second.

01:24:26 ◼   ► I saw the Touch ID thing fill in the fingerprint for like literally half a second and it was

01:24:30 ◼   ► done and that was it.

01:24:31 ◼   ► I'm like, "Whoa!"

01:24:32 ◼   ► Like it was so fast.

01:24:35 ◼   ► It blew me away.

01:24:37 ◼   ► I still had to sign though.

01:24:38 ◼   ► It was just over $100 so maybe that's why.

01:24:41 ◼   ► I did still have to sign, so that was a little bit like,

01:24:44 ◼   ► ah, like an animal, you know.

01:24:45 ◼   ► But then when I went to another store later on that day

01:24:49 ◼   ► to get some other stuff,

01:24:50 ◼   ► and of course I had to use a regular machine,

01:24:53 ◼   ► it felt so archaic.

01:24:54 ◼   ► Even using Apple Pay once,

01:24:56 ◼   ► I've been doing this every day of my life,

01:24:59 ◼   ► for my entire adult life,

01:25:01 ◼   ► and I've never thought this was really a problem,

01:25:04 ◼   ► and now all of a sudden everything else

01:25:06 ◼   ► feels old and broken.