ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Damn it John. I was about to read that nope save it for later

00:00:02 ◼   ► Well that how tonight's gonna go I got

00:00:07 ◼   ► Later in the follow-up section. It's all in there see this is what I get for messing with the Kings follow-up my apologies

00:00:14 ◼   ► All right, you think follow-up goes with the follow-up fairy comes at night

00:00:18 ◼   ► You just like you wake up, it's like Christmas morning wow this follow-up under the tree question where it comes from

00:00:28 ◼   ► No, I know it comes from the king so King would you like to start our follow-up about the Apple of cars?

00:00:34 ◼   ► Only if you give me a nickname that's distinct from Marco who you also call that's true. Wait. I'm the king of something

00:00:39 ◼   ► Let's start start calling Declan the king. We'll see how that goes. What am I the king of yeah, I don't know mufflers

00:00:45 ◼   ► Fracture app icons something like that

00:00:49 ◼   ► So the first item is a tweet from Daniel Silva talking about whether Tesla is the Apple of cars

00:00:57 ◼   ► cars, and he gave a link to a Consumer Reports owner survey asking about repair experiences,

00:01:03 ◼   ► and it was saying that independent repair shops outscored dealership services with one

00:01:08 ◼   ► exception, and that exception was Tesla, which had "excellent customer sat," which totally

00:01:14 ◼   ► makes it the apple of car.

00:01:16 ◼   ► We need a sound effect for that.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Maybe just like a thud.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Seriously?

00:01:20 ◼   ► What is the sound of one customer sitting?

00:01:23 ◼   ► Customer sat.

00:01:24 ◼   ► Oh, God.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Yeah, see?

00:01:26 ◼   ► Yeah, see thud yeah, oh, that's so bad John alright, so yes, so Tesla has great customer set thus

00:01:32 ◼   ► They are the Apple of cars

00:01:34 ◼   ► I mean to be fair as people pointed out on Twitter like since this is a thing about repair experiences

00:01:38 ◼   ► Tesla's have only been around for a short time, so they're all pretty darn new so maybe the repair experience is great

00:01:45 ◼   ► It's because they're all under warranty and are relatively new so maybe it's not particularly fair

00:01:49 ◼   ► But anyway, I thought I would throw that in there as a little appetizer for automotive follow

00:01:55 ◼   ► Alright, well, what's our salad course then? Yeah, so now we have Apple. Apple's making a minivan

00:02:00 ◼   ► You know the whole minivan rumor

00:02:03 ◼   ► And I I don't remember where I read this but as with a lot of things in the Apple car rumor stories

00:02:10 ◼   ► It's just sort of said it's like did someone see a minivan or did you just hear from these unnamed sources that they're making a minivan?

00:02:17 ◼   ► Or like we don't we don't know from from whence does this minivan business come?

00:02:21 ◼   ► It's just anyway and we were talking about it why that might be maybe just kind of a snub nose thing or stuff like that

00:02:27 ◼   ► And I think Keith house was the first person to point out

00:02:31 ◼   ► That the possibility that I think this is in his fault

00:02:36 ◼   ► But anyway other people said this as well that it might just be a test mule like, you know where they're testing drivetrain or

00:02:42 ◼   ► Internal stuff or whatever and that the outside shape of the car has nothing to do with what's inside it kind of like Columbus the

00:02:48 ◼   ► the set-top box that Apple is almost certainly going to introduce in 1998 is a flat black

00:02:53 ◼   ► rectangular box.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Of course, Columbus turned out to be the iMac.

00:02:56 ◼   ► Turns out, as with computers and cars, of course, the outside shape of the thing can

00:03:01 ◼   ► have absolutely no bearing on the product that you actually make.

00:03:05 ◼   ► And I think that one of the other examples that someone gave was like, "Look at those

00:03:07 ◼   ► iPhone prototypes.

00:03:08 ◼   ► They were crazy and they were big."

00:03:10 ◼   ► I think Columbus is an even better example because that was such a great fake-out of

00:03:14 ◼   ► the internals of this computer have to fit in a certain size,

00:03:17 ◼   ► but nobody but the industrial design people knew

00:03:19 ◼   ► that the thing that was wrapped around that

00:03:21 ◼   ► was gonna be a translucent teal gumdrop type thing.

00:03:25 ◼   ► And so car companies do have sort of test mules

00:03:28 ◼   ► that are either heavily disguised

00:03:29 ◼   ► or actually bear little resemblance to the final car.

00:03:32 ◼   ► I think maybe Casey,

00:03:34 ◼   ► if you've read a lot of car magazines or marker,

00:03:36 ◼   ► like do you remember a case where someone

00:03:38 ◼   ► like a car manufacturer was testing the drive train

00:03:41 ◼   ► for a new car by wedging it into something

00:03:43 ◼   ► look like their old car, I have vague memories of that.

00:03:47 ◼   ► Well even just last week, BMW announced they're going to do a 7 seater SUV, the X7.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Oh god, I was just about to bring that up you jerk.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Yeah, like a few days ago there were these spy shots of what, they basically took an

00:03:59 ◼   ► X5 I think, or an X3, they took one of their existing smaller SUVs and just bolted a bunch

00:04:05 ◼   ► of weights to the roof and the hood and are testing it that way by simulating the bigger

00:04:10 ◼   ► car that would be on the same chassis and drivetrain and everything.

00:04:14 ◼   ► That's slightly right.

00:04:15 ◼   ► So I have a link which we'll put in the show notes.

00:04:18 ◼   ► BMW X7 testing using modified 7 Series prototype.

00:04:22 ◼   ► That's right, it was a sedan.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:04:25 ◼   ► So yes, this looks like a next generation G11 7 Series prototype, but look closer and

00:04:30 ◼   ► you will see BMW has ingeniously added weights to the roof and inside the car and raised

00:04:34 ◼   ► the hood to accommodate a different engine/intake setup in order to "test" the basic X7 drive

00:04:40 ◼   ► train package. And so yeah, that's exactly what I was going to bring up Marco and that

00:04:45 ◼   ► sounds very similar to what you're describing John.

00:04:48 ◼   ► And Keith Huss's additional thing is like, look, if you're going to be testing internal

00:04:51 ◼   ► stuff like screens or whatever, and you will have to have a bunch of equipment hooked up

00:04:55 ◼   ► to it to monitor it, a minivan type shape leaves lots of room for sort of engineers

00:05:00 ◼   ► to be sitting with their little equipment or laptops are connected to the thing with

00:05:03 ◼   ► cables or whatever and monitor everything while you're in the car. Like, so it's sort

00:05:07 ◼   ► If it's just internal stuff, it would be like a mobile lab for stuff that happens inside

00:05:11 ◼   ► the car.

00:05:12 ◼   ► And if it's a whole car type thing, then it could be a drivetrain mule or any other

00:05:15 ◼   ► type of thing.

00:05:16 ◼   ► That anyone seeing anything looking like a minivan may have nothing to do with anything

00:05:22 ◼   ► that the final product is going to look like.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Well, and also, I mean, there's a lot of popular car shapes these days, especially

00:05:29 ◼   ► in the US, that look kind of like minivans.

00:05:32 ◼   ► Like if you say like it's kind of like a minivan, that could encapsulate lots of crossovers,

00:05:38 ◼   ► large hatchbacks, things like the Prius V that I don't think they called a minivan

00:05:43 ◼   ► and it's pretty small for a minivan but it's kind of minivan shaped.

00:05:47 ◼   ► There's a lot of cars that are near that shape or near that profile.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Actually probably even more in Europe because they like hatchbacks so much more than we

00:05:54 ◼   ► do.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Well there's another great example with the BMW i3 which a few people wrote in justifiably

00:06:00 ◼   ► a little annoyed that we didn't bring that up.

00:06:02 ◼   ► We did, though.

00:06:03 ◼   ► I thought we mentioned the i3.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And when we had a discussion of the i8, one of you briefly brought up the i3.

00:06:07 ◼   ► But no, we didn't talk about it in the minivan type thing.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Although I did mention the spark car and other cars that don't have a lot of front overhang

00:06:13 ◼   ► because there's no engine.

00:06:14 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:06:15 ◼   ► And so anyway, the point being the BMW i3, in case you're not aware, is there, I believe,

00:06:20 ◼   ► it's either a hybrid or pure electric.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Is that correct?

00:06:23 ◼   ► I think it's hybrid.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Suffice it to say that it looks like a very, very shrunken minivan, almost like a bigger

00:06:28 ◼   ► smart car.

00:06:29 ◼   ► So, to kind of build upon what you were saying, John, that you could construe the i3 as a

00:06:34 ◼   ► minivan if you didn't really know what you were talking about, even though it's half

00:06:38 ◼   ► the size of your average American minivan.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Do you want to talk about poaching?

00:06:44 ◼   ► You can poach a car.

00:06:46 ◼   ► These are in the category of stories that broke since we recorded last week's episode,

00:06:51 ◼   ► which we recorded on a Wednesday as we always do.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Recording this one on a Wednesday.

00:06:55 ◼   ► after we recorded it there were more stories that put even more smoke to this rumor.

00:07:03 ◼   ► And the New York Times one was getting engineers to build a battery division, right?

00:07:10 ◼   ► And an automaker type engineer.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Those people might have expertise in also helping them build phone and iPad batteries,

00:07:18 ◼   ► sure, but probably their expertise is much more involved in very large batteries for

00:07:21 ◼   ► things like cars.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And if you're doing carplay, you probably don't have any reason to get people who have

00:07:28 ◼   ► expertise in building car-sized batteries.

00:07:31 ◼   ► So there's a little bit more smoke there for like, are they doing something other than

00:07:34 ◼   ► just extending carplay or doing maps or something like that.

00:07:37 ◼   ► And I think the big one is, again, last week we were talking about, oh, they hired a bunch

00:07:41 ◼   ► of these people, but I was saying, wouldn't they be hiring more people who are like mechanical

00:07:46 ◼   ► engineers or drivetrain engineers or people know about building cars?

00:07:49 ◼   ► Because all we saw was like, all right, fine, some executives.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Like someone's got to lead these car people, so get some executives.

00:07:53 ◼   ► I don't know how to do anything anyway.

00:07:54 ◼   ► They just tell people what to do.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Executives from Ford, head of R&D at BMW.

00:07:59 ◼   ► That's all we saw with those,

00:08:00 ◼   ► like the couple, handful of big names.

00:08:01 ◼   ► And then everything else was just an amorphous number.

00:08:03 ◼   ► It's like, oh, and they're hiring a bunch of employees

00:08:05 ◼   ► and poaching from Apple teams.

00:08:06 ◼   ► Like, well, where are the people who know how to build cars?

00:08:08 ◼   ► And so 9to5Mac did this huge breakdown

00:08:10 ◼   ► of here's a bunch more names.

00:08:12 ◼   ► Instead of just the names of the big wigs

00:08:13 ◼   ► that we're saying are in charge of this,

00:08:15 ◼   ► here's a bunch more names.

00:08:16 ◼   ► And if you go through these names

00:08:17 ◼   ► and look what their experience and expertise are in,

00:08:20 ◼   ► they're in things that have much more to do

00:08:22 ◼   ► with building cars or working on cars,

00:08:26 ◼   ► like the car part of the cars.

00:08:28 ◼   ► It's, and again, it's still a short list.

00:08:29 ◼   ► It's not hundreds of people.

00:08:30 ◼   ► It's not an exhaustive head count,

00:08:32 ◼   ► but it sure looks a lot more like people

00:08:36 ◼   ► who would be working on an actual car

00:08:39 ◼   ► and not people who would be working on carplay.

00:08:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I felt the same way that, man,

00:08:46 ◼   ► this could be construed as a car,

00:08:47 ◼   ► but I'm not so convinced.

00:08:48 ◼   ► And especially after this 9-to-5 Mac piece,

00:08:52 ◼   ► If nothing else they got to be toying with the idea of building an actual car

00:08:56 ◼   ► Otherwise all these hires just seemed kind of silly to me, but yeah, it's it's weird. I

00:09:02 ◼   ► Last week I would have told you there's a 10% chance

00:09:06 ◼   ► This is actually happening insofar as that they're actually even trying to build something even if they scrap it

00:09:11 ◼   ► Jason Snell actually had a really good piece on six colors where in short he said well

00:09:16 ◼   ► You know a lot of companies will try things and in

00:09:19 ◼   ► throw some spaghetti against the wall if you will and see what sticks and you know sometimes it doesn't stick and that's okay and that

00:09:25 ◼   ► Certainly see it certainly seems as though Apple is at the very least seeing if they have anything to contribute here and this 95 Mac piece

00:09:33 ◼   ► Further corroborates that in my mind. Yeah, assuming assuming it's true

00:09:37 ◼   ► It's not like Apple is confirming these people but like just a big just to pick one random name out of his list here

00:09:41 ◼   ► This is David Nelson. He's from from Tesla

00:09:43 ◼   ► And according to his LinkedIn at Tesla

00:09:46 ◼   ► he was served as the mechanical engineering manager leading a team responsible for modeling

00:09:50 ◼   ► predicting modeling prediction and verification of motoring gearbox performance and efficiency.

00:09:56 ◼   ► You do not need a mechanical engineer who knows about motoring gearbox performance and

00:10:00 ◼   ► efficiency if you're working on carplay or a street view thing like people like this.

00:10:06 ◼   ► I don't know how you would explain that these people exist at all. It even kind of kills

00:10:11 ◼   ► again if this is true the idea that oh Apple's just gonna like partner with somebody and

00:10:15 ◼   ► take over their entire interior and do it. Why the hell would you need someone for reliability

00:10:22 ◼   ► and warranty projects and modeling gearbox? This is people for building a car. That's

00:10:29 ◼   ► just one person from this page. You just go through them all and I don't know how you

00:10:33 ◼   ► can finish it and say, "Look, if Apple hired all these people, what the hell are they doing

00:10:37 ◼   ► with them other than building a car?"

00:10:38 ◼   ► That's the thing. I mean, and this is, you know, we got so much feedback, really good

00:10:43 ◼   ► feedback this week, people giving us all sorts of ideas, some of which I'm sure we're

00:10:46 ◼   ► going to talk about in the next few minutes. All sorts of ideas. A lot of people are saying,

00:10:50 ◼   ► like, you know, what if Apple is not quite building a car, but what if they're addressing

00:10:55 ◼   ► the problem of transportation in a bigger way? Maybe it's a non-traditional approach,

00:10:59 ◼   ► something like, you know, car sharing or transportation networks of different sorts, and like these

00:11:04 ◼   ► bigger picture ideas that all kind of begin like,

00:11:07 ◼   ► well, they're gonna solve something

00:11:09 ◼   ► in a totally different way.

00:11:11 ◼   ► And another common explanation is,

00:11:13 ◼   ► well, maybe they're gonna build the car OS

00:11:15 ◼   ► and license it to car makers

00:11:16 ◼   ► and/or partner with somebody to make the car for them.

00:11:19 ◼   ► And I think just looking at this,

00:11:21 ◼   ► it is much more likely that they're gonna actually,

00:11:24 ◼   ► that they're actually trying to build a car

00:11:26 ◼   ► than anything else.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Like any other alternative explanation

00:11:30 ◼   ► of what they might be doing with all these people instead,

00:11:33 ◼   ► it is just looking more and more likely,

00:11:35 ◼   ► the more attention you pay to this,

00:11:37 ◼   ► the more information that comes out

00:11:38 ◼   ► in bits and pieces and rumors,

00:11:40 ◼   ► the more it looks like there's a lot of smoke behind this

00:11:42 ◼   ► and that it is way more likely than any other explanation

00:11:47 ◼   ► that they are just actually trying to build a car.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And then to address the what if they do something different

00:11:51 ◼   ► or what if they do something non-traditional

00:11:53 ◼   ► or solve a bigger problem, I think that's a lot like,

00:11:57 ◼   ► we have to look at every previous Apple launch

00:11:59 ◼   ► and before the watch came out, we were talking,

00:12:02 ◼   ► What if they do something different

00:12:04 ◼   ► and it's not really a watch, it's some kind of wearable

00:12:07 ◼   ► that's not a watch but it does other things

00:12:09 ◼   ► and then it came out and it's like, nope, it's a watch,

00:12:11 ◼   ► it's just done well.

00:12:13 ◼   ► Same thing like when the iPad came out

00:12:15 ◼   ► and me and other bloggers at the time were talking like,

00:12:20 ◼   ► if they do a tablet, how do they solve the input problem

00:12:23 ◼   ► and how big is it, how do they solve the problem

00:12:26 ◼   ► of it being between sizes and the answer was

00:12:29 ◼   ► they didn't solve those problems,

00:12:30 ◼   ► they just made a good tablet.

00:12:32 ◼   ► Typically when Apple solves problems like this,

00:12:35 ◼   ► they don't do something that no one's ever heard of,

00:12:39 ◼   ► they just do a really good job

00:12:40 ◼   ► with things that people generally have heard of

00:12:42 ◼   ► or that are cutting edge.

00:12:44 ◼   ► And so if they make, you know, looking at this project,

00:12:47 ◼   ► these rumors and these people and everything else,

00:12:50 ◼   ► it sure looks like, as I said,

00:12:51 ◼   ► it sure looks like they are making a car.

00:12:53 ◼   ► That's what all these people are probably for.

00:12:56 ◼   ► And if they are making a car,

00:12:59 ◼   ► rather than having some kind of grand reinvention

00:13:01 ◼   ► of everything, it is far more likely that they're just gonna try to make a really

00:13:05 ◼   ► good car, in the traditional sense of how we know cars.

00:13:08 ◼   ► Like I don't, and you know, maybe it'll be pure electric, you know, that's fine,

00:13:12 ◼   ► that's still within the realm of a car, you know, and it's very different, and we'll

00:13:16 ◼   ► get to that later, but it is just so much more likely that the story is more boring

00:13:21 ◼   ► than we all think, and more boring than a lot of people are trying to predict.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Like people are thinking that, oh, it's out of, it's just, it has to be something

00:13:29 ◼   ► crazy. It has to be some like cockamamie scheme to do some crazy thing and the answer is probably

00:13:35 ◼   ► no. It's probably just a car that they're hoping is going to be really good.

00:13:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I certainly agree that there's a lot more smoke around this potential fire than

00:13:44 ◼   ► there was even just a week ago. Do you want to tell us about something that's cool?

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00:15:56 ◼   ► That is, that's, I mean, that's actually my son's birthday so I can't go but man I would

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00:16:18 ◼   ► - All right, so we're like two items down

00:16:23 ◼   ► in the 300 item followup.

00:16:24 ◼   ► - No, we gotta be past a whole bunch of them.

00:16:26 ◼   ► We can skip this one that Bloomberg says

00:16:28 ◼   ► that Apple wants to start producing cars by 2020

00:16:30 ◼   ► because that one is just more of the classic like,

00:16:32 ◼   ► you think you have rumors?

00:16:34 ◼   ► We're gonna tell you when they're gonna ship it.

00:16:35 ◼   ► In fact, and if it doesn't ship by 2020, it's late.

00:16:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:40 ◼   ► The slug on the URL is Apple said to be targeting

00:16:42 ◼   ► car production as soon as 2020,

00:16:45 ◼   ► Which just leaves them open to say, "Well, we didn't say 2020. Could be as soon as 2020."

00:16:49 ◼   ► If it's sooner, they'll be like, "Well, that kind of fits. If it's later, we just said as soon as 2020."

00:16:53 ◼   ► Like, what does that even mean? Anyway, I don't like that one.

00:16:56 ◼   ► Um, heh.

00:16:58 ◼   ► Uh, what did you just remove? You just removed the next one I was gonna read.

00:17:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but it's, it's unrelated.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Follow-up battle.

00:17:03 ◼   ► No, it's real. They're all related to car stuff. It was the sugar water one you just moved.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Yes, but I thought we could cover it at the end, but since you brought it up, John, I guess we'll talk about it now.

00:17:11 ◼   ► Yeah, well, you know Marco jumped the queue by taking the thing I deleted from the show notes and talking about it

00:17:16 ◼   ► So this is chaos. It's following past today. This is why I don't edit the show notes

00:17:21 ◼   ► Well, you should at least look at them. Anyway, the sugar water thing the case. He just deleted these two. I moved it

00:17:28 ◼   ► I didn't delete it

00:17:29 ◼   ► I loved it the title of last week's show was something like do you want to sell sugar phones to the rest of your life?

00:17:34 ◼   ► Or something that's a reference to a line that we said in the show

00:17:37 ◼   ► and

00:17:39 ◼   ► Marco and Casey asked hey do we want to put a link in the show notes that explains that for the people who don't know

00:17:44 ◼   ► And they were adamant that we not do that. I thought

00:17:46 ◼   ► For if you hear something on their showing you're like what the hell they talking about you go to the show notes and click the

00:17:52 ◼   ► Link and it will explain it but every joke and reference has to be explained

00:17:56 ◼   ► No, it doesn't have to be explained

00:17:57 ◼   ► There just needs to be an explanation and if you don't get it and are seeking an explanation

00:18:01 ◼   ► Like you defined one so you can follow along with everybody else and get it the next time we reference it

00:18:06 ◼   ► Can we write it at the bottom of the page upside down?

00:18:08 ◼   ► It'll be a swipe thing, swipe to read, to highlight, it's white on white text.

00:18:14 ◼   ► So we didn't get any feedback about that, so I guess everybody understood it, because

00:18:17 ◼   ► you're listening to a Tech Nerd podcast for people who like Apple and stuff, you know

00:18:21 ◼   ► about this, and if you didn't, I guess you could Google it, or you don't care what the

00:18:25 ◼   ► title was.

00:18:26 ◼   ► But anyway, if you're wondering what the hell we're talking about...

00:18:28 ◼   ► This is the worst show.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Yeah, well, we're explaining things.

00:18:32 ◼   ► How do people become...

00:18:34 ◼   ► We have a shared history and knowledge and culture of this Apple stuff.

00:18:37 ◼   ► How do people gain that knowledge so they too can share in these jokes?

00:18:40 ◼   ► Someone has to tell them, or they have to experience it.

00:18:42 ◼   ► Like you have to invite people into your culture by explaining your shared heritage so then

00:18:46 ◼   ► they can put it—anyway, this is how it works.

00:18:49 ◼   ► You don't just be like, "We can't tell them because they're not one of us."

00:18:53 ◼   ► Step one, watch every episode of The Simpsons from the last 25 years.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Just watch "Triumph of the Nerds," Robert Cringely's PBS series, which is where this

00:19:01 ◼   ► quote is from.

00:19:02 ◼   ► I don't know if it was published before that.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Steve Jobs, when he was at Apple the first time, was trying to recruit a new CEO for the company

00:19:12 ◼   ► and he went to John Sculley who was working at Pepsi and was trying to get him to come to Apple

00:19:16 ◼   ► and leave his cushy job at Pepsi and his pitch to him as they were strolling through a garden or whatever was

00:19:21 ◼   ► "You want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life or do you want to come with me and change the world?"

00:19:26 ◼   ► and that's what got John Sculley to come and then John Sculley eventually ousted Steve Jobs in a boardroom battle

00:19:32 ◼   ► So that was not a great move on Steve's part, using her persuasion to bring the guy who

00:19:35 ◼   ► would kick him out of the company.

00:19:36 ◼   ► But anyway, that's what happened.

00:19:38 ◼   ► Everybody has that sugar water quote because it's such a, you know, whatever you're doing

00:19:41 ◼   ► at your company, like Pepsi, selling people sugar water and giving people diabetes, you're

00:19:45 ◼   ► not doing anything good.

00:19:46 ◼   ► You're wasting your talents.

00:19:48 ◼   ► Come to Apple and we'll change the world.

00:19:51 ◼   ► The comparison to Tesla was like if you just want to make like, well, you're making smartphones

00:19:55 ◼   ► and they already did change the world, but if you really want to change the world now

00:19:57 ◼   ► you should be making electric cars.

00:19:58 ◼   ► So come to Tesla and we can do that.

00:20:01 ◼   ► And that's how Tesla could lure people away from Apple.

00:20:03 ◼   ► How Apple could get them to stay is, "You don't have to go to Tesla to make an electric

00:20:06 ◼   ► car, we're doing that here."

00:20:08 ◼   ► So the link we'll put in the show notes is actually a video from this documentary, which

00:20:14 ◼   ► is great.

00:20:15 ◼   ► You should watch it, "Triumph of the Nerds," from the '90s or something.

00:20:17 ◼   ► This is before Steve Jobs came back to Apple.

00:20:20 ◼   ► If you haven't seen it before, you definitely should watch it.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

00:20:24 ◼   ► I know a lot of people are critical of it.

00:20:25 ◼   ► I actually really liked it.

00:20:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's overly dramatic and silly.

00:20:31 ◼   ► That's where the no taste quote was from too, I love that.

00:20:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it has footage,

00:20:36 ◼   ► for whatever you may feel about the story

00:20:38 ◼   ► that it slaps on top of the history of PCs

00:20:41 ◼   ► to make it interesting and dramatic,

00:20:43 ◼   ► there are interviews with important people in the industry

00:20:45 ◼   ► where they get asked interesting questions

00:20:47 ◼   ► and give interesting answers.

00:20:48 ◼   ► You can just ignore the surrounding silliness

00:20:50 ◼   ► and just watch the interviews,

00:20:51 ◼   ► and even just for that, it's great.

00:20:53 ◼   ► - All right, do you wanna talk to us

00:20:55 ◼   ► about what Helmut wrote in?

00:20:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, we didn't, I'm surprised we didn't get

00:20:59 ◼   ► feedback about this because we were discussing in the last episode lots of different possibilities

00:21:04 ◼   ► of Apple working with car makers or not working with them and how car companies wouldn't want

00:21:09 ◼   ► Apple to come in and become the most important differentiator in their car because then what

00:21:14 ◼   ► are they doing? They don't want to have happen to them what happened to the music industry or

00:21:18 ◼   ► the cell phone carriers where Apple is the valuable part and they're just sort of like

00:21:23 ◼   ► the stuffing or whatever. And I guess we didn't get feedback on this because people either didn't

00:21:30 ◼   ► know about this or understood that we understood this, but every car company has part suppliers

00:21:36 ◼   ► that make things that go into the cars. You name any car company, they probably don't make

00:21:44 ◼   ► the transmission or the radio, the speedometer, the seats.

00:21:49 ◼   ► Like they're different.

00:21:54 ◼   ► - The fancy sensors, like the rain sensors

00:21:56 ◼   ► and the automatic headlights,

00:21:58 ◼   ► like all that stuff is usually from outside.

00:22:00 ◼   ► - Airbags.

00:22:01 ◼   ► - Right, everything comes from some other vendor

00:22:05 ◼   ► but that's how the auto industry works.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Like I make parts for whatever.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Like I'm a separate company, I'm not part of GM

00:22:11 ◼   ► but the whole purpose of my company

00:22:12 ◼   ► used to make parts for GM or these other car makers.

00:22:15 ◼   ► And there are a few well-known brands that you would say,

00:22:18 ◼   ► okay, well, these cars from Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler,

00:22:22 ◼   ► like what do they all have in common?

00:22:23 ◼   ► They all have ZF gearboxes, right?

00:22:25 ◼   ► Who the hell is ZF?

00:22:27 ◼   ► And the reason this didn't come up is like,

00:22:30 ◼   ► if you're a gearhead, you know about ZF,

00:22:32 ◼   ► you know about Bosch and you know about

00:22:34 ◼   ► all these other companies that make things.

00:22:35 ◼   ► But none of those companies

00:22:38 ◼   ► end up being the differentiator.

00:22:40 ◼   ► You're like, I want the car with the ZF transmission.

00:22:43 ◼   ► From year to year, the same exact car

00:22:45 ◼   ► can have a different transmission.

00:22:46 ◼   ► It's like, oh, well, this model year,

00:22:48 ◼   ► this car has this transmission

00:22:49 ◼   ► and next model year has a transmission

00:22:51 ◼   ► from an entirely different vendor.

00:22:53 ◼   ► That's not advertised.

00:22:54 ◼   ► It's not an important model changeover.

00:22:55 ◼   ► It's just like, oh, they changed the transmission.

00:22:57 ◼   ► Like it is not a headline feature.

00:22:59 ◼   ► You don't, usually regular people do not know

00:23:01 ◼   ► who makes the transmission in their car, right?

00:23:04 ◼   ► They only know that maybe they changed

00:23:05 ◼   ► to an eight-speed automatic

00:23:07 ◼   ► instead of a five-speed or whatever.

00:23:10 ◼   ► That's how the car industry works.

00:23:12 ◼   ► And that is an acceptable relationship

00:23:13 ◼   ► for everybody involved for probably historic reasons.

00:23:15 ◼   ► And a great example is for like infotainment systems,

00:23:18 ◼   ► like the BMW iDrive and the Mercedes command system

00:23:23 ◼   ► and all the things that have like a screen

00:23:25 ◼   ► and some little wheel that you move

00:23:26 ◼   ► or a touchscreen or whatever.

00:23:28 ◼   ► There are only a few companies that make those things.

00:23:30 ◼   ► And in fact, a single company makes those systems

00:23:33 ◼   ► for BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Chrysler,

00:23:37 ◼   ► and one other company that I'm forgetting.

00:23:39 ◼   ► It's a Harman in Connecticut.

00:23:41 ◼   ► It's the same company that does Harman Kardon, I think.

00:23:43 ◼   ► They make the infotainment systems for all of those cars.

00:23:46 ◼   ► As you say, well, I don't like, I like BMW system.

00:23:50 ◼   ► I don't like the Mercedes system.

00:23:52 ◼   ► They're both made by the same manufacturer

00:23:53 ◼   ► to the specifications of the car company to some degree.

00:23:57 ◼   ► But those companies aren't making the screens

00:23:59 ◼   ► and the little dials and the software and everything

00:24:01 ◼   ► and the operating system that goes on.

00:24:02 ◼   ► This is one company doing this.

00:24:04 ◼   ► That's how the industry works.

00:24:05 ◼   ► But the very important part is, that's not,

00:24:07 ◼   ► you don't know that.

00:24:08 ◼   ► know who supplies these parts and from year to year the car makers can change suppliers

00:24:12 ◼   ► who do these and they can decide to bring this in-house and outsource this to a different

00:24:15 ◼   ► company and pit suppliers against each other in the same way that only super nerds know

00:24:19 ◼   ► that like Marco's computer has like the bad LG screen or whatever that has their image

00:24:23 ◼   ► retention issues and the good one was like the Samsung one.

00:24:27 ◼   ► Nobody else knows that.

00:24:28 ◼   ► Apple is not afraid that people are going to decide that Samsung is the important differentiator

00:24:32 ◼   ► in their products.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Nobody knows that Samsung makes the system-mounted chips for iOS devices for years.

00:24:38 ◼   ► But in any kind of relationship where Apple is going to do stuff, Apple is not going to

00:24:42 ◼   ► be content to be merely a part supplier to the auto industry.

00:24:46 ◼   ► Even CarPlay is distinctly an Apple thing.

00:24:50 ◼   ► When they were on the road promoting CarPlay, you sure as hell knew that Apple was bringing

00:24:54 ◼   ► you CarPlay and that it worked with your iPhone and that was what it was.

00:24:57 ◼   ► It was 100% an Apple thing.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Even if they're not giant Apple logos all over the screen, there is no hiding the fact

00:25:02 ◼   ► that it was Apple, whereas nobody knows who makes the, you know,

00:25:05 ◼   ► do I have Goodyear tires, Michelin tires?

00:25:08 ◼   ► Like, you don't even know what the hell the tires on your car are

00:25:11 ◼   ► unless you're a gearhead.

00:25:12 ◼   ► So if you don't know about the auto industry

00:25:15 ◼   ► and you read about this and get confused and yeah,

00:25:18 ◼   ► why can't Apple be one of those things?

00:25:19 ◼   ► Because that's just not how Apple operates,

00:25:20 ◼   ► but that is how the auto industry operates.

00:25:22 ◼   ► So there's a disconnect with Apple being involved in the auto industry

00:25:25 ◼   ► and in any way, because the relationship that the auto industry is used to

00:25:29 ◼   ► is one that Apple is not interested in.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Do you have any idea how much of that approach is also true of Tesla?

00:25:37 ◼   ► For example, are the motors designed and built in house or the batteries designed?

00:25:41 ◼   ► And I think the batteries are designed, if not built in house.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Well, aren't they building a huge factory for batteries or something like that?

00:25:47 ◼   ► Yeah, but they're going to do with the batteries is like we start with raw

00:25:50 ◼   ► materials and out the other end comes out a battery, which is reminiscent of like

00:25:54 ◼   ► the Macintosh, one of the original code names was like sand for their thing.

00:25:57 ◼   ► It's like sand goes in one and completed.

00:25:59 ◼   ► Did Macintos just go out the other business?

00:26:01 ◼   ► Sand, silicon, stuff like that.

00:26:03 ◼   ► Anyway, that's actually an interesting comparison.

00:26:06 ◼   ► So first of all for Tesla, their whole freaking car practically was from Lotus in the beginning

00:26:12 ◼   ► because they just took a Lotus.

00:26:13 ◼   ► They bought a rolling chassis from Lotus and they just jammed their battery pack into it.

00:26:17 ◼   ► These days I'm assuming they're doing the same amount if not slightly more in-house

00:26:22 ◼   ► stuff than everyone else, but yeah they have other suppliers.

00:26:26 ◼   ► I don't think they're making their brake rotors or their brake assemblies.

00:26:30 ◼   ► I think they're operating like any other car manufacturer where various parts suppliers

00:26:35 ◼   ► make things and they can make things to your specifications and to your design or if they

00:26:41 ◼   ► have something previously available like we already have this brake rotor in this size

00:26:44 ◼   ► if you just want to buy it from us, like you don't have to design your own special brake

00:26:48 ◼   ► rotor or maybe they think they need to for their particular car.

00:26:50 ◼   ► But I'm assuming that they are using parts suppliers in the traditional way because that's

00:26:56 ◼   ► how they started.

00:26:57 ◼   ► I mean, you're just getting a whole rolling chassis from Lotus and then shoving their

00:27:00 ◼   ► car inside that.

00:27:01 ◼   ► Oh, and I don't know if this is a further follow-up, but it's good to bring it up now.

00:27:08 ◼   ► Apple of course does the same thing.

00:27:10 ◼   ► If you look at an iPhone, you can say all the different manufacturers, like Broadcom

00:27:14 ◼   ► makes the Wi-Fi chip and Samsung was manufacturing a system on a chip until recently, and this

00:27:19 ◼   ► This company makes the IO controller and this company makes the screen controller and who

00:27:23 ◼   ► makes the screen this year and where is the cameras coming from Sony this year and they

00:27:26 ◼   ► change the supplier all the time and nobody knows who those controllers are and where

00:27:29 ◼   ► did they get their memory from, did they get it from Hynix or whatever that company is

00:27:32 ◼   ► or did they get the memory from Samsung and like nobody knows that.

00:27:36 ◼   ► It is not a differentiator.

00:27:37 ◼   ► Apple is giving up no value by not making all these things itself.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Apple doesn't own the factories that make them.

00:27:43 ◼   ► Is it being made by Foxconn, is it being made by, what is that other one, Quanta or what

00:27:47 ◼   ► is the one that starts with a Q?

00:27:49 ◼   ► Anyway, that's how Apple operates as well, even more so, because it's like, we don't

00:27:53 ◼   ► want to go to hands dirty by actually owning any factories.

00:27:55 ◼   ► We will spend millions, possibly billions of dollars letting people install equipment

00:28:00 ◼   ► in the factories if they will slowly pay off through some complicated relationship or manufacturing

00:28:05 ◼   ► stuff for us, but they let someone else handle that.

00:28:07 ◼   ► So part of this rumor is that Apple is talking to this, what is this company called?

00:28:12 ◼   ► Magna Styrandicin, I can't pronounce this name.

00:28:17 ◼   ► the name I've seen in car magazines for years but I've never had to say it out

00:28:20 ◼   ► loud for a variety of reasons. A company that makes parts for fancy cars and why

00:28:25 ◼   ► would Apple be talking to them? Because they're not gonna make their... I mean I

00:28:29 ◼   ► suppose they could but like their inclination would be to operate somewhat

00:28:32 ◼   ► like the rest of the industry is like if there are parts suppliers and

00:28:36 ◼   ► manufacturers and assemblers for the automotive industry who already do this

00:28:40 ◼   ► Apple can contract them to say can you make some stuff for us too and they can.

00:28:46 ◼   ► And the other option is, you know, getting back to Marco's retelling of the grand theories

00:28:50 ◼   ► that readers have, is like, "I bet they're going to do it all in the United States and

00:28:53 ◼   ► they're going to bring manufacturing back to the United States and they're going to

00:28:56 ◼   ► make their own factory with all US people because they're always talking about employing

00:28:59 ◼   ► people in the US."

00:29:00 ◼   ► And I suppose they could do that, and that does fit with some of the things that Apple's

00:29:04 ◼   ► been doing.

00:29:05 ◼   ► But on the other hand, every other thing that Apple makes tends to be made by what Apple

00:29:11 ◼   ► thinks is the people who can make this best.

00:29:13 ◼   ► and if the people who can make this best are a company in the United States, then fine.

00:29:19 ◼   ► But if they're in China or if they're in Germany or if they're in any place else, I think Apple

00:29:22 ◼   ► will be talking to all the best people who already know how to make car-sized things.

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00:31:49 ◼   ► - So John, if Apple wasn't making a car,

00:31:52 ◼   ► could they be working on something car-related,

00:31:54 ◼   ► like maybe road signs or something like that?

00:31:57 ◼   ► - You're skipping your own real-time follow-up.

00:31:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:32:00 ◼   ► About Magna making whole cars, yes.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Magna, or they count as like an assembler or whatever.

00:32:05 ◼   ► They don't just make transmissions or little parts that they ship to someone else to get

00:32:08 ◼   ► dissembled.

00:32:09 ◼   ► Magnum will put your stuff together.

00:32:10 ◼   ► And I'm not sure if they entirely manufacture high-end cars or do most of the assembly or

00:32:15 ◼   ► ... anyway.

00:32:16 ◼   ► Oh, well, they did.

00:32:17 ◼   ► They created the 4MATIC Mercedes all-wheel drive.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Doesn't that suck?

00:32:22 ◼   ► I didn't think it sucked.

00:32:23 ◼   ► I'm not saying it's particularly remarkable, but I didn't think it sucked.

00:32:27 ◼   ► Yeah, like the point about the auto industry is that the car that you think is made by

00:32:32 ◼   ► by a single company that sold to you under a particular brand

00:32:35 ◼   ► is mostly made, like as in assembled the parts made

00:32:38 ◼   ► or whatever by companies other than the company whose name is

00:32:41 ◼   ► on the thing.

00:32:42 ◼   ► They're ultimately responsible for the car.

00:32:43 ◼   ► They design it.

00:32:44 ◼   ► They decide what goes into it, so on and so forth.

00:32:46 ◼   ► But who makes that transmission?

00:32:48 ◼   ► Who makes those wheels?

00:32:49 ◼   ► Who puts them all together in the right shape

00:32:51 ◼   ► so that a car runs?

00:32:53 ◼   ► A surprising amount of that process

00:32:54 ◼   ► does not involve GM, BMW, Mercedes, Audi,

00:32:59 ◼   ► any of these companies because it's all outsourced

00:33:01 ◼   ► a bunch of other smaller companies.

00:33:03 ◼   ► It's mostly a symbiotic relationship

00:33:04 ◼   ► because those companies, like they don't,

00:33:07 ◼   ► no one else wants an eight-speed automatic gearbox

00:33:10 ◼   ► except for people who make cars.

00:33:11 ◼   ► So they necessarily need to sell their parts to car makers.

00:33:14 ◼   ► And I have the capability to assemble completed cars

00:33:17 ◼   ► from a bunch of parts.

00:33:19 ◼   ► They need car makers to use their capacity to do that.

00:33:21 ◼   ► So this is the relationship.

00:33:23 ◼   ► We can build cars and we can build parts that go into cars.

00:33:26 ◼   ► We need car makers to buy our parts

00:33:29 ◼   ► or to tell us to assemble their cars.

00:33:31 ◼   ► And of course, you know, there's the Toyota and Honda and all the Japanese things where

00:33:36 ◼   ► they run their own factories and they have a special way of doing it that assures quality

00:33:39 ◼   ► and so on and so forth, but even they outsource things.

00:33:42 ◼   ► And I think, who is it that licensed Tesla's drivetrain and battery technology?

00:33:45 ◼   ► I think Toyota did.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Well, they tried to.

00:33:48 ◼   ► I think it fell apart.

00:33:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:50 ◼   ► Well, there's a surprisingly incestuous relationship between all of these car companies.

00:33:53 ◼   ► To the point where the Ford Probe and what the hell was it?

00:33:56 ◼   ► The Ford Probe and the Mazda...

00:33:58 ◼   ► 323?

00:33:59 ◼   ► No, the 626 maybe. At various points there have been cars, I mean we even have it now,

00:34:06 ◼   ► the Toyota Baru, right? It's the same car, sold by Toyota and Subaru, because Subaru

00:34:11 ◼   ► does the engine and Toyota does the rest of the car.

00:34:13 ◼   ► I believe that's right.

00:34:14 ◼   ► There was a relationship between Mazda and Ford where they were essentially selling the

00:34:18 ◼   ► same car with different skins on it. I think I also couldn't remember the name of this

00:34:21 ◼   ► car, MX6, yes. I couldn't remember this back in neutral either, I still can't remember

00:34:25 ◼   ► The probe and the MX6 were the same car with different stuff on it.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I mean this has happened so many times over the years.

00:34:31 ◼   ► So the auto industry is super weird.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Like if this happened in the tech industry it would be like, well you know the Samsung

00:34:37 ◼   ► S3 and the iPhone are the same phone, right?

00:34:40 ◼   ► They just have a different skin on them.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Like what?

00:34:43 ◼   ► That would never happen.

00:34:44 ◼   ► It happens all the time in the auto industry.

00:34:46 ◼   ► Yeah, my favorite was the Mitsubishi 3000 GT and the Dodge Stealth.

00:34:51 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And it totally crossed like cross country lines, crossed foreign, domestic, like just

00:34:57 ◼   ► Asia, Europe, there is no rhyme or reason other than just these executives deciding

00:35:04 ◼   ► that there are certain deals that make sense in terms of engineering resources and manufacturing

00:35:10 ◼   ► capacity and I need this and you need that and we can cross license and sell them to

00:35:15 ◼   ► each other.

00:35:16 ◼   ► By the way, I always liked the Mitsubishi better than the Stealth, styling-wise.

00:35:20 ◼   ► They look so similar.

00:35:22 ◼   ► The only thing they changed was the headlight and tail light treatment and the weird fake

00:35:25 ◼   ► Ferrari side strakes on the thing.

00:35:28 ◼   ► Did you ever see, there was a made for TV movie, Knight Rider 2000, which was like five,

00:35:34 ◼   ► ten years after Knight Rider ended.

00:35:36 ◼   ► Hasselhoff came back and did this made for TV movie and the kit 2000, I think, was a

00:35:43 ◼   ► custom movie or TV car, but it was based off of Dodge Stealth, if I'm not mistaken.

00:35:47 ◼   ► I think I did see that but I can't picture the car.

00:35:51 ◼   ► I loved it as a kid.

00:35:52 ◼   ► I'm sure if I watched it again today I'd think it was just a waste of film.

00:35:56 ◼   ► But man I was obsessed with that little TV movie as a kid.

00:36:00 ◼   ► I thought they just took the Firebird and just tacked a bunch of greebles as they say

00:36:04 ◼   ► in the business to the thing so it looked different.

00:36:06 ◼   ► But I might have been thinking of something else.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Greeblies.

00:36:09 ◼   ► Is it Greeblies?

00:36:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:12 ◼   ► A while back I had actually read a behind the scenes on the car.

00:36:14 ◼   ► But I don't have a link handy for that story.

00:36:18 ◼   ► But we'll put a link in the show notes to Wikipedia for Knight Rider 2000.

00:36:23 ◼   ► It's a wonderfully bad made-for-TV movie.

00:36:26 ◼   ► >> Wikipedia says "Greeble."

00:36:27 ◼   ► I think I got it right the first time.

00:36:30 ◼   ► >> I'm so glad there was no other tech news this week, because that's a disaster.

00:36:35 ◼   ► >> All right.

00:36:37 ◼   ► So yeah, now that sidetrack aside, you're talking about this is getting into the meat

00:36:42 ◼   ► of all the many, many very grand ideas that listeners have about what Apple could be doing.

00:36:51 ◼   ► And like Marco said before, the general theme was, "It's not about cars, man. It's about

00:36:56 ◼   ► transportation."

00:36:57 ◼   ► Right, they're going to reinvent something somehow. Don't really know how yet.

00:37:02 ◼   ► Yeah, well no, they had specific things. So one entire angle is that Tim Cook loves the

00:37:09 ◼   ► environment. Apple loves the environment. They're building solar farms everywhere.

00:37:13 ◼   ► Therefore, the reason they would be interested in doing a car is because electric cars are

00:37:18 ◼   ► better for the environment. And so, because Apple is so environmentally focused, it makes

00:37:24 ◼   ► perfect sense they would want to do an electric car because it fits perfectly with those attitudes

00:37:27 ◼   ► of the company. I agree that that fits with the attitude of the company. That's not the

00:37:31 ◼   ► reason you do a car, because if you are going to try to be better for the environment of

00:37:36 ◼   ► of all the things that produce greenhouse gases.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Cars are significant,

00:37:39 ◼   ► but you could get more bang for your buck

00:37:41 ◼   ► by getting rid of cows or buses or the many other things

00:37:45 ◼   ► or crew, something else off some crazy internet stat

00:37:48 ◼   ► that may or may not be true.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Like the 12 biggest shipping,

00:37:52 ◼   ► like boats that they go across the ocean

00:37:54 ◼   ► with shipping containers on them,

00:37:55 ◼   ► like the 12 or 20 biggest ones of the world,

00:37:57 ◼   ► ones of those in the world,

00:37:59 ◼   ► produce the same amount of CO2

00:38:00 ◼   ► as all the cars in the world.

00:38:01 ◼   ► - Really?

00:38:03 ◼   ► - It was on the internet.

00:38:04 ◼   ► Who knows if it's even true?

00:38:05 ◼   ► I saw it.

00:38:05 ◼   ► sounds ridiculous. Yes it does it sounds like one of those things that you read on the internet

00:38:09 ◼   ► that is totally not true. So next week I'm asking people to tell us whether that's true

00:38:14 ◼   ► or not. Once. Yeah just one person do it everyone get together and agree amongst yourselves

00:38:18 ◼   ► which one of you is gonna email. No I don't care send a million different kind of confirmations

00:38:23 ◼   ► only five people are gonna look it up anyway. So I agree that that is that that fits with

00:38:29 ◼   ► Apple's motto I don't agree that it is a strong motivating factor in deciding to whether or

00:38:33 ◼   ► not to build a car.

00:38:34 ◼   ► It could be a contributing factor,

00:38:37 ◼   ► but it's like in a long list of reasons

00:38:40 ◼   ► they would make a car.

00:38:40 ◼   ► 'Cause you could say that about a lot of things.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Like, this is good for them.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Why don't they make something that, you know,

00:38:46 ◼   ► that produces electricity, like electric power plants?

00:38:49 ◼   ► That would do even more for the environment.

00:38:51 ◼   ► Well, because Apple does not into making power plants.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Well, you know, but then why should I make a car?

00:38:56 ◼   ► Another thing is if you're gonna make an electric car,

00:39:00 ◼   ► one of the big impediments to electric cars

00:39:02 ◼   ► been infrastructure, like if I take it on a long trip, where do I recharge it, how do

00:39:05 ◼   ► I recharge it?

00:39:07 ◼   ► Tesla obviously has been tackling this with its supercharger stations that it's trying

00:39:11 ◼   ► to put all over the United States.

00:39:12 ◼   ► This is the infrastructure problem.

00:39:13 ◼   ► If I can make an alternative fuel vehicle, how do I make it a viable thing to drive across

00:39:20 ◼   ► the country with?

00:39:21 ◼   ► You need some place to refuel it, and infrastructure like that is, you know, how many gas stations

00:39:25 ◼   ► are there in the United States?

00:39:26 ◼   ► This sounds like a tech job interview from 2003.

00:39:30 ◼   ► many Tesla supercharger stations are there?

00:39:32 ◼   ► Far less.

00:39:33 ◼   ► And so hey, Apple's got a lot of money, they could tackle this.

00:39:35 ◼   ► They could, you know, they could make sure that there are places where you can charge

00:39:39 ◼   ► the electric Apple car all across the entire country.

00:39:43 ◼   ► I think they could do that.

00:39:45 ◼   ► Tesla has shown how difficult that is.

00:39:46 ◼   ► Apple has a lot more money than Tesla.

00:39:48 ◼   ► They could do a better job.

00:39:49 ◼   ► In fact, I think they may have to do something like that, but like Tesla, they will be forced

00:39:54 ◼   ► just by reality to start doing it in,

00:39:59 ◼   ► just in the San Francisco area, just in the New York area,

00:40:02 ◼   ► just in the Eastern Seaboard, just up and down.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Like it's just a humongous problem.

00:40:08 ◼   ► Someone says it's 388 supercharger stations, right?

00:40:10 ◼   ► So how many gas stations are there in the United States?

00:40:12 ◼   ► Slightly more than 388.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Like it is a very big problem.

00:40:16 ◼   ► It's not like it, look how many Apple stores have opened.

00:40:19 ◼   ► It just, obviously a supercharger station is easier to open

00:40:21 ◼   ► than an Apple store, but boy, that's a long road

00:40:24 ◼   ► and it will have to be addressed sort of collectively.

00:40:27 ◼   ► If Apple makes a bunch of charter stations for its car

00:40:31 ◼   ► and Tesla makes a bunch of charter stations for its car

00:40:33 ◼   ► and stuff like that, that's terrible because it would be

00:40:35 ◼   ► like, well, if you get a Honda,

00:40:36 ◼   ► you can only go to Honda gas stations.

00:40:37 ◼   ► We need a common standard for this.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And you know, we're in early days of this,

00:40:41 ◼   ► but hopefully this will shake itself out.

00:40:43 ◼   ► I don't think Apple's not going to try to address this need

00:40:46 ◼   ► because if they sell electric cars,

00:40:47 ◼   ► you're gonna have to need somewhere to charge it,

00:40:48 ◼   ► but don't expect like, boy, now that Apple's doing it,

00:40:53 ◼   ► no matter where you live in the United States, I'll be 10 minutes away from a place where

00:40:55 ◼   ► I can charge up my Apple car.

00:40:57 ◼   ► Unless you plan on going into people's houses and breaking in and plugging it inside their

00:41:00 ◼   ► house and waiting 12 hours to charge off their house current illegally, that is not going

00:41:04 ◼   ► to be the case.

00:41:07 ◼   ► What else did we have from the grandiose idea?

00:41:08 ◼   ► So the thing about, it's about transportation, not about cars.

00:41:12 ◼   ► What about a kind of ride sharing thing where you don't own the car, the community owns

00:41:17 ◼   ► the car, and well let's just throw in the autonomous cars.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Cars, of course, are going to drive themselves, all our listeners agree.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Not Apple's cars specifically, but just all cars will drive themselves, we don't need

00:41:29 ◼   ► a driver.

00:41:30 ◼   ► And once they're autonomous, you don't need to own a car, you just need to have an app

00:41:33 ◼   ► that can make the car arrive and we'll all just share cars together.

00:41:36 ◼   ► And whenever you need a car, we'll come and pick you up.

00:41:38 ◼   ► What people are doing is slow motion fantasy reinventing public transportation from first

00:41:43 ◼   ► principles only using cars and roads, which is perhaps the least efficient way to get

00:41:47 ◼   ► lots of people from place to place.

00:41:50 ◼   ► - I think we talked about this last show,

00:41:52 ◼   ► self-driving cars, yeah, they're probably gonna happen.

00:41:54 ◼   ► Are they going to happen if Apple introduces a car

00:41:57 ◼   ► in the next five years?

00:41:58 ◼   ► I'm gonna say no, no, no, no.

00:42:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm gonna agree

00:42:02 ◼   ► with that ridiculous pronunciation of no.

00:42:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:42:07 ◼   ► - 'Cause we all agree, self-driving cars

00:42:09 ◼   ► are a thing that's probably going to happen

00:42:10 ◼   ► maybe when we're alive, like in our lifetimes.

00:42:13 ◼   ► Do you think that seems reasonable?

00:42:15 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:42:16 ◼   ► I wouldn't even say definitely yes, I'd say maybe.

00:42:19 ◼   ► I mean, like it may be in limited circumstances

00:42:20 ◼   ► and so on and so forth, but you know,

00:42:22 ◼   ► the technology is good enough now where you can see

00:42:23 ◼   ► this is a feasible thing that could happen.

00:42:25 ◼   ► Because effectively, do we have self-flying planes?

00:42:28 ◼   ► Pretty close, like we have planes that do a lot

00:42:31 ◼   ► and can almost land themselves

00:42:33 ◼   ► and almost take off themselves and almost fly,

00:42:35 ◼   ► there's a person involved, so on and so forth.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Self-driving cars are an easier problem because you know.

00:42:39 ◼   ► - Well, self-driving cars are much more a regulatory

00:42:44 ◼   ► and public perception problem than a technology problem

00:42:47 ◼   ► for the most part.

00:42:48 ◼   ► I think we're gonna have the technology,

00:42:50 ◼   ► I mean we're not that far off today,

00:42:53 ◼   ► we're gonna have the technology to do them reasonably well,

00:42:57 ◼   ► relatively speaking fairly soon.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Like in the grand scheme of things, fairly soon.

00:43:01 ◼   ► Probably within the next decade,

00:43:03 ◼   ► the technology will be pretty usable.

00:43:06 ◼   ► But it might take a lot longer for not only regulation

00:43:11 ◼   ► to allow them in different states and countries,

00:43:14 ◼   ► but like the first time one gets in an accident

00:43:17 ◼   ► and kill somebody, that's gonna set them back

00:43:19 ◼   ► like 10 years in regulation

00:43:22 ◼   ► and how the public perceives them.

00:43:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think they'll be pretty resilient to that

00:43:28 ◼   ► because during the time we were doing this podcast,

00:43:31 ◼   ► X number of people die in car crashes driven by people.

00:43:34 ◼   ► - But people aren't rational.

00:43:35 ◼   ► People know, it's the same thing,

00:43:37 ◼   ► people freak out about flying

00:43:40 ◼   ► and then drive to the airport

00:43:41 ◼   ► and not even think about their risk of dying

00:43:43 ◼   ► driving into the airport.

00:43:44 ◼   ► People are not logical and rational

00:43:47 ◼   ► with calculating risk and something that seems

00:43:50 ◼   ► totally out of their control, like a self-driving car

00:43:53 ◼   ► made by the people who want you to

00:43:55 ◼   ► reset your password constantly.

00:43:56 ◼   ► Like, a self-driving car, like that's,

00:43:58 ◼   ► that is a very scary concept to a lot of people,

00:44:01 ◼   ► myself included, and I'm a technology guy.

00:44:03 ◼   ► Like, it would be very hard, it's gonna be very, very hard

00:44:06 ◼   ► for people to be willing to trust self-driving cars,

00:44:09 ◼   ► and the first time anything goes wrong with one,

00:44:12 ◼   ► that's gonna tarnish their image for years to come.

00:44:14 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be a tough battle.

00:44:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean like, couple things from the chat room.

00:44:20 ◼   ► One, talking about, I was saying electric cars,

00:44:22 ◼   ► you know, are self-driving cars in limited scenarios.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Like we already have that in some degrees,

00:44:27 ◼   ► like as a very limited scenario

00:44:28 ◼   ► and very vague definition of cars.

00:44:30 ◼   ► All those robots that drive all over factories, right?

00:44:33 ◼   ► That is obviously very limited.

00:44:34 ◼   ► I would imagine the first place

00:44:36 ◼   ► you're actually going to see self-driving cars

00:44:37 ◼   ► is probably someplace like Disneyland,

00:44:39 ◼   ► like an amusement park,

00:44:40 ◼   ► where it's technically not really a car.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Like it's all contained within the park,

00:44:45 ◼   ► going on known routes.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Like they basically have things like that now.

00:44:48 ◼   ► It's like a monorail, but without the rail, right?

00:44:51 ◼   ► That type of technology is coming quickly

00:44:53 ◼   ► and Google's ones are able to do their area

00:44:56 ◼   ► because they have mapped every inch of the terrain

00:44:58 ◼   ► and stuff like it.

00:44:59 ◼   ► It'll just expand outward from there.

00:45:01 ◼   ► And I made a comment about self-driving cars

00:45:04 ◼   ► being easier than planes, mostly because,

00:45:06 ◼   ► and this is contentious in the chat room,

00:45:07 ◼   ► but I'm gonna say mostly because

00:45:09 ◼   ► If there's any kind of problem with a self-driving car,

00:45:13 ◼   ► it can stop and pull over.

00:45:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:15 ◼   ► That is not an option in a plane.

00:45:17 ◼   ► Like say there's no human available to drive.

00:45:20 ◼   ► The failure mode of a self-driving car

00:45:22 ◼   ► involving slowly coming to a stop and pulling over,

00:45:24 ◼   ► that is not available to you

00:45:26 ◼   ► if the AI driving a plane loses its bearings

00:45:29 ◼   ► and has no idea what the hell to do.

00:45:31 ◼   ► There is no, okay, well I'll just do nothing.

00:45:33 ◼   ► And like, you know, I'll just turn myself off

00:45:35 ◼   ► and I'm sure we'll be fine.

00:45:36 ◼   ► Like, that is at least a viable option in a self-driving car.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Granted, the car's behind you, could rear-end you,

00:45:41 ◼   ► so on and so forth, but you don't fall out of the sky.

00:45:43 ◼   ► Whereas the AI driving a plane,

00:45:44 ◼   ► if there is no human available

00:45:46 ◼   ► and you're over the middle of the ocean

00:45:47 ◼   ► and the AI is super confused and has no idea what to do,

00:45:50 ◼   ► it does not have an option of saying,

00:45:51 ◼   ► I'll just turn myself off, I'm sure we'll be fine.

00:45:53 ◼   ► - That's mostly true, but you know,

00:45:54 ◼   ► there are whole plane parachutes that will,

00:45:58 ◼   ► I'm serious, for like Cessnas.

00:45:59 ◼   ► - That will let you drift slowly down

00:46:01 ◼   ► onto the middle of the Atlantic.

00:46:02 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:46:03 ◼   ► - And you'll be fine.

00:46:04 ◼   ► - Wait, that works?

00:46:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not kidding.

00:46:06 ◼   ► This is actually on the news a few weeks ago that some like very very small light aircraft like Cessna's or things like that

00:46:11 ◼   ► You can apparently get an entire parachute that will that will keep the entire plane

00:46:17 ◼   ► You know from from plummeting to the ground and rather just floating its way down to the ground or in this

00:46:23 ◼   ► Hypothetical the middle of the Atlantic where it at which point you drown and the people were posting the thing

00:46:28 ◼   ► I'm like that the pilots who are you know?

00:46:30 ◼   ► That self-flying planes are causing problems with pilots because they get a touch with the plane itself and that's totally true

00:46:36 ◼   ► self-driving cars will make people worse drivers, for sure.

00:46:39 ◼   ► And if they become super commonplace three generations from now,

00:46:41 ◼   ► no one will know how to drive anymore, but no one will care.

00:46:43 ◼   ► It'll be fine.

00:46:44 ◼   ► But we'll all be dead, so you don't have to worry about it.

00:46:47 ◼   ► - I don't wanna give up on driving, though.

00:46:49 ◼   ► I like driving.

00:46:50 ◼   ► - Well, so that was my meta point here.

00:46:52 ◼   ► I was gonna use a reference that neither one of you

00:46:54 ◼   ► are going to get, but what else is new?

00:46:56 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:46:58 ◼   ► The whole idea is of self-driving cars and ride sharing,

00:47:01 ◼   ► and you use an app and a self-driving car just shows up,

00:47:03 ◼   ► and you don't have to own a car.

00:47:04 ◼   ► like we all own the cars, man, or whatever.

00:47:06 ◼   ► Like just that whole sort of utopian future

00:47:09 ◼   ► of driverless cars not owned by anybody

00:47:12 ◼   ► runs up against one very big problem,

00:47:14 ◼   ► aptly pointed out by the seminal 90s movie

00:47:17 ◼   ► that you two have never seen.

00:47:19 ◼   ► And that reason is people love their cars.

00:47:23 ◼   ► - I don't even know what you're referring to,

00:47:24 ◼   ► but I agree with that statement, literally.

00:47:26 ◼   ► - Yep, that was a running gag in this movie.

00:47:31 ◼   ► Was some, I think his idea was called Super Train.

00:47:34 ◼   ► I'm not entirely sure it might be.

00:47:36 ◼   ► You should actually watch it to find out

00:47:37 ◼   ► if there's this deep broader connection.

00:47:39 ◼   ► But he had an idea for like a train that's gonna,

00:47:42 ◼   ► this super train that's gonna transport everybody.

00:47:45 ◼   ► I don't remember who was super, but anyway.

00:47:47 ◼   ► And he kept pitching it to people

00:47:49 ◼   ► and the people would look at it

00:47:49 ◼   ► and he had like a scale model and saw how it would be great

00:47:52 ◼   ► and reduce commute times and blah, blah, blah.

00:47:54 ◼   ► And they'd be like, yeah, it looks like a good idea.

00:47:56 ◼   ► But people really love their cars.

00:47:58 ◼   ► And like that was, that would undercut him constantly.

00:48:01 ◼   ► The chat room was saying it really was super train.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Anyway, we'll put a link in the show notes to this movie, but in the grand tradition

00:48:06 ◼   ► of not telling you where Sugar Water comes from, we will not tell you what this movie

00:48:10 ◼   ► is.

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00:51:14 ◼   ► Looking at the origins of Super Train, the fact that it was from a movie that was about

00:51:21 ◼   ► grunge people in Seattle makes me think that it is almost certainly either unconscious

00:51:27 ◼   ► or conscious origin of Roderick's super train thing, because I can almost guarantee that

00:51:32 ◼   ► he saw that movie and internalized it in some way.

00:51:35 ◼   ► So I'd be interested to know actually if he was consciously referencing that super train

00:51:41 ◼   ► or he has never seen this movie.

00:51:43 ◼   ► Oh you're rocking my rope man, next year you're going to say BMW doesn't make most of their

00:51:47 ◼   ► cars.

00:51:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:49 ◼   ► They do the important part, but pushing on the logo,

00:51:51 ◼   ► the little propeller logo on the front.

00:51:53 ◼   ► - They make the engine.

00:51:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, sort of.

00:51:56 ◼   ► - What do you mean sort of?

00:51:56 ◼   ► We watch them make the engines.

00:51:58 ◼   ► - Seriously?

00:51:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:52:00 ◼   ► A lot of parts go into an engine.

00:52:03 ◼   ► Do they make the spark plugs?

00:52:04 ◼   ► Do they make the wires?

00:52:05 ◼   ► Do they make the belts?

00:52:07 ◼   ► You know.

00:52:08 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:52:09 ◼   ► - I don't know, it doesn't matter.

00:52:10 ◼   ► It's a BMW car. - Probably not.

00:52:12 ◼   ► - Right.

00:52:13 ◼   ► It takes a village to make a car, really.

00:52:16 ◼   ► - All right, so where are we in this followup?

00:52:17 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm lost now.

00:52:18 ◼   ► - I think we're still in people's delusions of grandeur

00:52:21 ◼   ► about what Apple can do.

00:52:23 ◼   ► We just passed by the guy who was thinking that like,

00:52:25 ◼   ► we're all sharing the cars, they'll be autonomous

00:52:27 ◼   ► and you'll just get in with your iPhone

00:52:28 ◼   ► and the car will become your car

00:52:29 ◼   ► because like your interface will spread out all over it.

00:52:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, but then you get to like sit on someone else's

00:52:33 ◼   ► fart cushion and smell their cigarettes

00:52:34 ◼   ► and their cat hair on the seat, like come on.

00:52:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, San Francisco, nobody smokes, right?

00:52:40 ◼   ► I hope.

00:52:41 ◼   ► I'm led to believe.

00:52:42 ◼   ► The other one, all right, so the next fantasy scenario

00:52:44 ◼   ► is like there's so much more to driving than just the car.

00:52:47 ◼   ► You have to think about everything else,

00:52:48 ◼   ► like the traffic lights, the signs, the speed limits,

00:52:51 ◼   ► communication with all of those things,

00:52:52 ◼   ► communication with all the other cars.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Apple traffic lights, Apple stop,

00:52:56 ◼   ► I'm reading from an email people,

00:52:57 ◼   ► unless you think I'm making fun of something.

00:52:59 ◼   ► Apple traffic lights, Apple stop sign,

00:53:00 ◼   ► wow, the list goes on.

00:53:02 ◼   ► What a money earner worldwide.

00:53:05 ◼   ► Yes, if Apple could snap its fingers

00:53:07 ◼   ► and have interactive electronic traffic signals,

00:53:10 ◼   ► signs and own every car on the road

00:53:12 ◼   ► so they could all communicate with each other

00:53:14 ◼   ► and all could communicate with the traffic signals

00:53:16 ◼   ► and detect things from the signs without having to OCR the speeds off them like

00:53:20 ◼   ► a Margo's fancy car does, that wouldn't be an amazing utopian scenario. I think

00:53:24 ◼   ► it's a little bit of a tall order to think that Apple, I mean, what's next? Why

00:53:28 ◼   ► not just say that Apple should lay superconducting, super-cooled,

00:53:31 ◼   ► superconducting magnets throughout every road in the entire world, then we could

00:53:34 ◼   ► have levitating cars! Like, all these things are technically possible. Well,

00:53:38 ◼   ► also, like, if you imagine, like, the the actual reality, like, can you imagine the

00:53:44 ◼   ► business of selling traffic lights and stop signs to like every municipality

00:53:48 ◼   ► around the country like that's probably a terrible low-margin business it's like

00:53:51 ◼   ► wait wait so hear me out okay step one replace every traffic signal and sign in

00:53:56 ◼   ► the United States wait step two replace every car in the United States with an

00:54:02 ◼   ► Apple car that all communicate really now now once you've done that that's the

00:54:06 ◼   ► prerequisites now you can have a car they could talk to all the other cars

00:54:09 ◼   ► they can talk to the signals they can make traffic flow intelligently it's

00:54:12 ◼   ► It's like, "Alright then, yep, yep, okay."

00:54:15 ◼   ► I'm gonna say that that is probably in line with the idea, like Marker was saying, that

00:54:21 ◼   ► it's worse than the iPad being some amazing thing and not just being a big iPod.

00:54:27 ◼   ► All this stuff, these are all technically possible, they're all happening slowly like

00:54:31 ◼   ► this stuff happens.

00:54:32 ◼   ► Looking for Apple to be the savior to snap its fingers and make all these things that

00:54:35 ◼   ► are going to eventually happen happen on a much abbreviated timescale.

00:54:39 ◼   ► I can understand why people look for that

00:54:40 ◼   ► because like look what they did with the smartphone.

00:54:42 ◼   ► We probably would have gotten

00:54:43 ◼   ► to where the iPhone was eventually,

00:54:45 ◼   ► but Apple sort of accelerated that massively

00:54:47 ◼   ► by making a phone that was just leaps and bounds

00:54:50 ◼   ► ahead of where everyone else was.

00:54:51 ◼   ► And then everyone else said, oh, yeah, we should do that.

00:54:54 ◼   ► And then it took them a couple of years and they all did

00:54:56 ◼   ► and we're all moving along with smartphones

00:54:57 ◼   ► looking like iPhones now.

00:54:58 ◼   ► Can Apple do that with things at the scale

00:55:01 ◼   ► of traffic signals and signs?

00:55:04 ◼   ► The best I think you could hope for,

00:55:05 ◼   ► even if Apple was aiming for this,

00:55:07 ◼   ► is to have something like this working

00:55:09 ◼   ► where the rich people live in California

00:55:12 ◼   ► as a proof of concept in the same way

00:55:14 ◼   ► that Google has its self-driving cars

00:55:16 ◼   ► driving around in a limited range

00:55:17 ◼   ► to show that yes, this is something that can be done.

00:55:20 ◼   ► But it's a big leap to go from getting this to work

00:55:24 ◼   ► in Disneyland or where the rich people live in California,

00:55:26 ◼   ► which is probably a lot like Disneyland,

00:55:28 ◼   ► to this works in the entire United States,

00:55:31 ◼   ► to this is the way transportation works

00:55:32 ◼   ► on the entire planet.

00:55:33 ◼   ► So I'm not holding my breath for any of that.

00:55:36 ◼   ► All right.

00:55:40 ◼   ► Do you want to talk about China and the Apple car?

00:55:42 ◼   ► Because clearly if you can't sell it in the United States, China is the answer.

00:55:46 ◼   ► I think the China thing from—this feedback from Rob Lewis is all the manufacturing—and

00:55:52 ◼   ► Horace went into this on iSimco as well—all the manufacturing capacity in China, if Apple

00:55:57 ◼   ► was looking for someone to build their car, there's a lot of car manufacturing capability

00:56:02 ◼   ► and know-how in China that is ready to be tapped.

00:56:05 ◼   ► talking to Magnin, I think Magnin has locations in North America and Europe, but not in China

00:56:10 ◼   ► maybe.

00:56:11 ◼   ► But as Rob points out, Apple has existing relationships with a lot of big manufacturing

00:56:18 ◼   ► capacity in China, so surely some part of the Apple car is going to be made or assembled

00:56:22 ◼   ► in China because, like, you know, that's...

00:56:25 ◼   ► I don't think Apple is building a Gigafactory to build its batteries starting from sand

00:56:29 ◼   ► in the United States.

00:56:30 ◼   ► I assume they're going to contract out to somebody else to help them to make the parts

00:56:33 ◼   ► for their stuff.

00:56:34 ◼   ► And so yeah, I'm sure China will be involved.

00:56:36 ◼   ► Will Apple be selling their cars in China?

00:56:38 ◼   ► Does China need electric minivans?

00:56:40 ◼   ► Probably they've got a booming middle class.

00:56:43 ◼   ► It's a growth opportunity.

00:56:44 ◼   ► There are a lot of people in China.

00:56:47 ◼   ► I'm not sure if their entire strategy will hinge on China, but surely they'll be involved

00:56:52 ◼   ► as they are with everything having to do with manufacturing these days it seems.

00:56:56 ◼   ► So is that it?

00:56:57 ◼   ► Did we make it?

00:56:58 ◼   ► Then we're down to the sugar water and the Asymptote link explaining auto capacity utilization.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Yeah, he tweeted something, it was like a graph of like,

00:57:06 ◼   ► who has unused capacity for automaking?

00:57:09 ◼   ► And China is at 64% capacity,

00:57:12 ◼   ► and everyone else is like at 70 or 80%,

00:57:15 ◼   ► it has a smaller overall capacity.

00:57:16 ◼   ► So if you're looking for somebody

00:57:17 ◼   ► who's got excess manufacturing capacity for autos,

00:57:20 ◼   ► China is it.

00:57:21 ◼   ► - So about that Pebble Time.

00:57:24 ◼   ► - I kept reading that name in the tweets and thinking,

00:57:30 ◼   ► is this like a pun or a joke,

00:57:31 ◼   ► or is this the name of the product, but I guess.

00:57:33 ◼   ► - Stop, Pebble Time.

00:57:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the name of the product.

00:57:37 ◼   ► I mean, I guess it's a good name for a watch.

00:57:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I think everything Pebble

00:57:42 ◼   ► is doing right now is smart.

00:57:43 ◼   ► They are in a tough spot,

00:57:45 ◼   ► and given the tough spot they're in,

00:57:47 ◼   ► they seem like they're making the right moves to not die,

00:57:50 ◼   ► or at least to prolong death.

00:57:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:57:53 ◼   ► Right, I mean, 'cause like, you know,

00:57:54 ◼   ► so they start out with the smartwatch

00:57:56 ◼   ► that is basically a notifications display

00:57:59 ◼   ► for mostly iPhones.

00:58:02 ◼   ► Some Android people bought them,

00:58:03 ◼   ► but I think most of the buyers probably had iPhones.

00:58:05 ◼   ► It became pretty clear pretty quickly

00:58:07 ◼   ► that Apple was never going to give them the level of access

00:58:09 ◼   ► they needed to the notification system

00:58:12 ◼   ► to have any kind of two-way communication

00:58:14 ◼   ► or any kind of rich functionality.

00:58:15 ◼   ► And so they tried having their own apps

00:58:17 ◼   ► and their own SDK to custom integrate with it,

00:58:20 ◼   ► and they still do, but I think the reality is

00:58:22 ◼   ► that's really not gonna go incredibly far

00:58:25 ◼   ► in the Apple ecosystem just 'cause of the limitations

00:58:28 ◼   ► imposed by iOS and the hardware.

00:58:29 ◼   ► And Apple's never gonna open that up.

00:58:31 ◼   ► - Once Apple makes a watch, then it's time for Pebble to go,

00:58:34 ◼   ► all right, well, nevermind then.

00:58:35 ◼   ► - Right, and so they're not stupid, they saw this.

00:58:39 ◼   ► And they, I think, pretty smartly are much more embracing

00:58:44 ◼   ► the Android side, and I think that's wise.

00:58:48 ◼   ► And I don't wanna go too far into Pebble stuff

00:58:50 ◼   ► because our friends over at Connected covered it

00:58:53 ◼   ► way better than we could because they actually,

00:58:55 ◼   ► at least Mike actually has used a Pebble.

00:58:56 ◼   ► I don't know if the other guys have, I forget.

00:58:58 ◼   ► But you know, Mike has actually spent a lot of time

00:59:00 ◼   ► using one and as far as I know, none of us have, right?

00:59:03 ◼   ► - I have not, no.

00:59:04 ◼   ► - I've only seen one in real life

00:59:05 ◼   ► and it looked so incredibly giant and nerdy.

00:59:08 ◼   ► It's like, that's even too nerdy for us.

00:59:10 ◼   ► And that's really saying a lot.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I mean, you know.

00:59:12 ◼   ► - Don't you think that's a continuing problem

00:59:14 ◼   ► with the Pebble?

00:59:14 ◼   ► I know they have the Pebble Steel,

00:59:15 ◼   ► which was an attempt to be fashionable

00:59:17 ◼   ► that I think mostly failed,

00:59:18 ◼   ► 'cause it wasn't very fashionable.

00:59:20 ◼   ► It just looked like someone trying to be fashionable.

00:59:22 ◼   ► And I've seen people applauding, maybe it was you Marco,

00:59:24 ◼   ► plotting the idea that the Pebble Time doesn't try to do that anymore and just looks like

00:59:28 ◼   ► a gadget.

00:59:29 ◼   ► No, I didn't say that.

00:59:30 ◼   ► Maybe it was a reverse thing.

00:59:31 ◼   ► It just looks like a gadget-y thing again.

00:59:33 ◼   ► It's like I don't understand.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Like it's fine to say you're not going to go like the fashion route.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Like this is not a fashion accessory, it's a gadget accessory.

00:59:40 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:59:41 ◼   ► Like you're selling these in a small volume.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Nerds like Android, it's like a Kickstarter type thing.

00:59:46 ◼   ► Like yeah.

00:59:47 ◼   ► Does it have to be so darn ugly though?

00:59:49 ◼   ► Like you can make something that looks like a tech nerd toy.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Like, I just, all the pebbles, the original one, the steel, and this new one do not look

01:00:00 ◼   ► attractive to me.

01:00:02 ◼   ► And I'm not demanding fashion-wise.

01:00:03 ◼   ► I just want it to like, if they just made it an unadorned box, it would look better.

01:00:08 ◼   ► Because these things just look like weird, weird thermoses with like bulges and borders

01:00:15 ◼   ► and things poking out of them.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:00:18 ◼   ► I've seen a lot of Pebbles in real life.

01:00:20 ◼   ► They haven't particularly appealed to me,

01:00:21 ◼   ► but the smart move that Pebble is making here

01:00:23 ◼   ► is not even attempting to compete

01:00:26 ◼   ► with any of the smart watches,

01:00:27 ◼   ► because they're gonna say,

01:00:28 ◼   ► "Our differentiator is our battery lasts for seven days,

01:00:30 ◼   ► 'cause we have an E Ink screen.

01:00:31 ◼   ► Period, the end, done."

01:00:32 ◼   ► Is anyone else gonna do that?

01:00:33 ◼   ► I don't even know if they have any competition.

01:00:34 ◼   ► - And I think it's also fairly,

01:00:36 ◼   ► it's also more waterproof, right?

01:00:38 ◼   ► - I'm not sure.

01:00:39 ◼   ► I mean, I suppose it could be,

01:00:40 ◼   ► but it's like, there's less stuff inside it.

01:00:42 ◼   ► The screen is, the CPU is super weak.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Everything about it is like,

01:00:48 ◼   ► we are going the opposite extreme,

01:00:50 ◼   ► because Apple is not gonna make a watch

01:00:51 ◼   ► in their first outing with the battery last seven days.

01:00:53 ◼   ► They're gonna be lucky if you can get through a day

01:00:55 ◼   ► without charging anything, right?

01:00:56 ◼   ► Pebble says we can go the whole week.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Why?

01:00:59 ◼   ► 'Cause we have an E-Ink screen.

01:01:00 ◼   ► E-Ink screen you're not going to be watching video on.

01:01:01 ◼   ► What do you mean video?

01:01:02 ◼   ► Forget it.

01:01:03 ◼   ► We're showing you information about calendars

01:01:06 ◼   ► and notifications, stuff like that.

01:01:08 ◼   ► That's what they're trying to do.

01:01:09 ◼   ► And even that, what was the Kickstarter?

01:01:12 ◼   ► Is it like 15,000 phones,

01:01:14 ◼   ► or 15,000 watches or something like that?

01:01:16 ◼   ► Apple sells 15,000 iPhones every three minutes

01:01:18 ◼   ► or whatever the hell it is.

01:01:20 ◼   ► The volumes are very small.

01:01:22 ◼   ► This is a boutique thing for gadget nerds

01:01:24 ◼   ► and it has found a way--

01:01:25 ◼   ► - For reference, it's already past 50,000 it looks like.

01:01:29 ◼   ► It's raised almost $10 million for whatever it's worth

01:01:31 ◼   ► at the time of recording and it's going up still.

01:01:33 ◼   ► - So how long does it take Apple to sell that many iPhones?

01:01:36 ◼   ► Like a day or two?

01:01:37 ◼   ► - Sure, I mean it's not the same game.

01:01:39 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

01:01:41 ◼   ► They started out as a small company,

01:01:42 ◼   ► they started on Kickstarter,

01:01:43 ◼   ► And in many ways it looks like that's just the route

01:01:46 ◼   ► they're gonna continue on as long as they can.

01:01:48 ◼   ► And it might be indefinitely, it might be a long time.

01:01:50 ◼   ► They might be around for a while.

01:01:52 ◼   ► There are a lot of gadget nerds, obviously.

01:01:54 ◼   ► I mean, look how quickly this thing,

01:01:56 ◼   ► it reached its goal in something like 20 minutes.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And now it's way, like I said,

01:02:01 ◼   ► it's raised almost $10 million right now.

01:02:03 ◼   ► And there's still a month left in the campaign.

01:02:06 ◼   ► So this thing obviously, and this is all just pre-sales.

01:02:10 ◼   ► Once it's out, if it gets good reviews,

01:02:12 ◼   ► maybe people will buy it more.

01:02:13 ◼   ► I mean, once it's out, the Apple Watch will be out

01:02:15 ◼   ► and that's gonna take a lot of wind out of the sails here.

01:02:17 ◼   ► But still, you know, if they embrace the Android ecosystem,

01:02:21 ◼   ► the Android ecosystem is freaking huge.

01:02:23 ◼   ► Like so it, and if you look at the Android Wear watches

01:02:26 ◼   ► that they're competing with in that ecosystem,

01:02:30 ◼   ► the Android Wear watches really have not gone very far.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Everyone who has tried them so far

01:02:34 ◼   ► has had pretty mixed reviews of them.

01:02:37 ◼   ► None of them have really taken off.

01:02:38 ◼   ► And if they can, they're obviously not gonna win on style.

01:02:43 ◼   ► The rest of the Android Wear watches have a better chance than this does and that's

01:02:46 ◼   ► not saying a whole lot.

01:02:47 ◼   ► They're not going to win on style.

01:02:49 ◼   ► But for all the other things, the battery life, the possible water resistance, the durability

01:02:53 ◼   ► cost, I mean these things are really cheap.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I think they're about $200, something like that, a little under $200.

01:02:59 ◼   ► Yeah, about $200.

01:03:00 ◼   ► So these things are, you know, there's a big market for this if smart watches are going

01:03:05 ◼   ► to be a thing that takes off.

01:03:06 ◼   ► And I think it's pretty clear that's probably going to happen.

01:03:09 ◼   ► So I think they're going to do okay for quite a while.

01:03:11 ◼   ► And I think it's wise for them to push further into the Android ecosystem because iOS is

01:03:16 ◼   ► just not going to go that far for them.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think it's really important that, like, you know, saying, "Oh, this is a small

01:03:21 ◼   ► market.

01:03:22 ◼   ► It only applies to gadget nerds."

01:03:24 ◼   ► You can't even get the gadget nerds if what you try to make is a gadget that is like the

01:03:29 ◼   ► Apple Watch but worse.

01:03:31 ◼   ► Because even the gadget nerds don't want that.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Like nobody wants that, right?

01:03:35 ◼   ► So that's why it's so important.

01:03:36 ◼   ► "Well, if it's just 50,000, 100,000 people or whatever, who cares?

01:03:42 ◼   ► These people obviously like it to be all gadgety and cool."

01:03:45 ◼   ► But if you made something that had an LCD screen, needed to be charged, it was basically

01:03:49 ◼   ► just a worse Apple Watch, nobody wants that.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Not even the gadget nerds want that.

01:03:53 ◼   ► They'll just buy Android Wear if they want an Android-powered watch.

01:03:56 ◼   ► You have to do something different than everybody else, even if you just have a small market.

01:03:59 ◼   ► That's why they're being super smart here, because it seems like, as far as I know, no

01:04:02 ◼   ► No one else is even trying to make a color E Ink smartwatch.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Like are they the only one in the entire world?

01:04:08 ◼   ► Like regardless of how they're doing it with the specific technologies, 7 day battery.

01:04:12 ◼   ► Nobody making an Apple or Android Wear style smartwatch would ever say 7 day battery.

01:04:18 ◼   ► There's no way in hell you're getting 7 day batteries from your Apple Watch.

01:04:21 ◼   ► That is a big difference and that will actually appeal to gadget nerds.

01:04:25 ◼   ► Whereas if you made just a worse Android Wear watch, now you're competing with Motorola,

01:04:29 ◼   ► now you're competing with Apple, now you're competing with all of them.

01:04:31 ◼   ► So very smart move by that Kickstarter.

01:04:34 ◼   ► And what they're essentially doing is exploring an avenue for wearables.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Because at this point we don't know, like is it a deal breaker because you have to charge

01:04:42 ◼   ► your Apple Watch every day or do people not care?

01:04:45 ◼   ► And we don't know yet.

01:04:46 ◼   ► That's the real answer.

01:04:47 ◼   ► They're like, "We don't know."

01:04:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:49 ◼   ► And Pebble has shown that like they, at least among gadget nerds, I see a lot of people wearing

01:04:53 ◼   ► the original Pebble.

01:04:54 ◼   ► You can't miss it.

01:04:55 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:04:56 ◼   ► That was enough to get a bunch of people to wear smartwatches.

01:04:59 ◼   ► I have only seen one other person wear an Android Wear smartwatch, and that person happened

01:05:04 ◼   ► to be reviewing that product, so I don't know if that counts.

01:05:08 ◼   ► But I see many pebbles in my travels in nerd circles.

01:05:12 ◼   ► So a pebble may be onto something, and if they are onto something, it's bad for them

01:05:16 ◼   ► because then all of the Android manufacturers and maybe even Apple will just make a watch

01:05:23 ◼   ► like that.

01:05:24 ◼   ► And eventually it's bad for them because presumably, eventually, the Apple Watch will have at least

01:05:28 ◼   ► a multi-day, if not seven-day, battery life, you know, five, seven years from now. But

01:05:34 ◼   ► gather ye rosebuds, Pebble. This is your time.

01:05:38 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Cocoa Conf, Harvest, and Lynda.com, and we

01:05:43 ◼   ► will see you next week.

01:05:44 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

01:05:54 ◼   ► Oh it was accidental.

01:05:56 ◼   ► John didn't do any research.

01:05:59 ◼   ► Margo and Casey wouldn't let him.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Cause it was accidental.

01:06:04 ◼   ► It was accidental.

01:06:07 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM.

01:06:12 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at

01:06:18 ◼   ► C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

01:06:26 ◼   ► A-N-T, Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C, U-S-A, Syracuse.

01:06:34 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:06:37 ◼   ► They didn't mean to.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:06:42 ◼   ► Tech podcast so long.

01:06:47 ◼   ► So Marco, for the first time in your life, you actually did some homework?

01:06:50 ◼   ► I did.

01:06:51 ◼   ► It was a really – it was very hard.

01:06:53 ◼   ► It was a lot of work.

01:06:54 ◼   ► I really struggled through to do it for the show.

01:06:56 ◼   ► I feel for you.

01:06:57 ◼   ► It's a difficult task.

01:06:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:00 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:07:01 ◼   ► So after the last show, we were talking about electric cars and what Apple might do and

01:07:05 ◼   ► the Tesla and everything.

01:07:07 ◼   ► And we got a number of comments in the chat and a number of emails immediately afterwards

01:07:10 ◼   ► saying, "You should really drive an electric car to know what you're talking about."

01:07:15 ◼   ► So I had to do this.

01:07:16 ◼   ► I had to go and test drive a Tesla on this past Saturday,

01:07:21 ◼   ► just so I could know for the show what we're talking about.

01:07:25 ◼   ► - It's so kind of you to take one for the team

01:07:27 ◼   ► because God knows I would hate to have to go

01:07:30 ◼   ► and drive a Tesla.

01:07:31 ◼   ► God, would that suck.

01:07:32 ◼   ► - I had to drive like 20 minutes to go to the place,

01:07:35 ◼   ► each way, it was hard.

01:07:36 ◼   ► So let me preface this by saying I'm a big fish fan,

01:07:45 ◼   ► as you know from listening to our show.

01:07:47 ◼   ► I like fish music, not the fish that you eat

01:07:50 ◼   ► or that swim in the ocean, I don't like them at all.

01:07:52 ◼   ► - I can't wait to see how this connects.

01:07:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

01:07:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, now, even though I'm a fish fan,

01:07:58 ◼   ► if you can think of what you think of

01:08:00 ◼   ► when you think of fish fans,

01:08:02 ◼   ► I don't care that much about going to the live shows,

01:08:05 ◼   ► even though I listen to all the live shows.

01:08:07 ◼   ► - You're not a pan man.

01:08:08 ◼   ► - I'm not a pan man.

01:08:10 ◼   ► I don't do any drugs.

01:08:11 ◼   ► And the one time I did go to a fish show,

01:08:14 ◼   ► I didn't do any drugs there either.

01:08:16 ◼   ► And so--

01:08:18 ◼   ► - Well, you know, not directly.

01:08:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:08:21 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:08:23 ◼   ► But according to other fish fans,

01:08:24 ◼   ► to the things they like, the things they value,

01:08:27 ◼   ► I'm really like a terrible fish fan.

01:08:29 ◼   ► I'm just terrible.

01:08:31 ◼   ► So similarly, I'm also a fan of BMW sports cars.

01:08:36 ◼   ► But among them, so I really prefer all-wheel drive.

01:08:40 ◼   ► I never bring my car on a track.

01:08:41 ◼   ► I don't take it anywhere and do donuts in parking lots.

01:08:45 ◼   ► I always drive with traction control on,

01:08:47 ◼   ► and I generally prefer luxurious,

01:08:51 ◼   ► luxuries like, you know, comfy seats,

01:08:53 ◼   ► even though they're heavy, you know, stuff like that.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Like, motorized, sunroofs, you know, heated seats,

01:08:58 ◼   ► all that stuff, it's all this heavy luxury stuff in cars.

01:09:01 ◼   ► I like that.

01:09:02 ◼   ► So, similar to how I'm a terrible fish fan,

01:09:06 ◼   ► I'm also a terrible sports car owner,

01:09:08 ◼   ► according to the priorities

01:09:09 ◼   ► of most other sports car owners.

01:09:12 ◼   ► So I went to this Tesla driving thing where they just had a table set up at some health

01:09:18 ◼   ► club and you could sign up and go in and test drive it for a certain time slot.

01:09:23 ◼   ► So I went up to this thing and I was told it would be the new P85D model, the super

01:09:30 ◼   ► fast one that had that crazy reactions video that has the all wheel drive and the super

01:09:35 ◼   ► fast motor.

01:09:36 ◼   ► although unfortunately it was white.

01:09:39 ◼   ► But, so going into this drive,

01:09:43 ◼   ► I knew that I was about to drive this giant,

01:09:45 ◼   ► heavy, but very fast all wheel drive electric car.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Right, now I knew going in,

01:09:52 ◼   ► academically I knew it was going to be

01:09:54 ◼   ► significantly faster than my car.

01:09:57 ◼   ► But I also, what I expected based on

01:09:59 ◼   ► how we were talking about it,

01:10:01 ◼   ► and what I've heard from other people,

01:10:02 ◼   ► and what I saw in a Tesla mall showroom

01:10:05 ◼   ► like two years ago, I was also expecting it to have

01:10:08 ◼   ► a less luxurious interior, and more importantly,

01:10:12 ◼   ► to just be less sporty.

01:10:13 ◼   ► Like I knew it would be fast,

01:10:15 ◼   ► but I also was not expecting it to be sporty.

01:10:17 ◼   ► I expected it to be just kind of more tame handling,

01:10:20 ◼   ► more cushy, and a little bit less luxurious on the inside.

01:10:23 ◼   ► So, the interior of the car that I saw

01:10:26 ◼   ► was actually very nice.

01:10:28 ◼   ► I would say it is not as nice as like a decked out,

01:10:31 ◼   ► high end five series, but it was a lot less far off

01:10:35 ◼   ► than it used to be, it was pretty close.

01:10:37 ◼   ► I immediately got in and backed up out of the parking spot.

01:10:39 ◼   ► I really, really missed the heads up display

01:10:42 ◼   ► and the top down parking view.

01:10:45 ◼   ► - Top down parking view, what are we talking about?

01:10:46 ◼   ► The automated cars make us bad drivers.

01:10:48 ◼   ► You can't even drive without a simulated bird's eye view

01:10:52 ◼   ► of his car.

01:10:53 ◼   ► - No, well, look, with the bird's eye view,

01:10:55 ◼   ► I've never scraped a rim, not once.

01:10:57 ◼   ► I do a lot of parallel parking in really tight city spots.

01:10:59 ◼   ► I've never scraped a rim.

01:11:00 ◼   ► - I don't scrape my worms the old fashioned way

01:11:02 ◼   ► by parking way too far away from the curb.

01:11:04 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, so. (laughing)

01:11:06 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah, 'cause you know, Boston's known for its,

01:11:08 ◼   ► like, the wide, spacious roads, especially now,

01:11:11 ◼   ► with all the snow.

01:11:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, our roads are really wide now.

01:11:13 ◼   ► We give it one car barely through.

01:11:15 ◼   ► - If that, yeah. (laughing)

01:11:17 ◼   ► All right, so it doesn't have a heads-up display.

01:11:18 ◼   ► It doesn't have the side cameras to offer the top-down view.

01:11:21 ◼   ► So that's unfortunate in a car of this class,

01:11:23 ◼   ► of this price range, but, oh well, move on.

01:11:26 ◼   ► They do offer some of the luxuries that I come to enjoy,

01:11:30 ◼   ► like a heated steering wheel.

01:11:31 ◼   ► Very few cars offer heated steering wheels.

01:11:34 ◼   ► Once you have a heated steering wheel,

01:11:35 ◼   ► it's quite, even my 3 Series had it before this,

01:11:38 ◼   ► and it's so nice, it's amazing.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Way better than air conditioned seats,

01:11:42 ◼   ► those are mostly useless.

01:11:43 ◼   ► Anyway, I didn't have a lot of time

01:11:45 ◼   ► to play with the controls,

01:11:46 ◼   ► the tuck screen thing and everything,

01:11:48 ◼   ► 'cause it was mostly just about,

01:11:49 ◼   ► it was like a 15 minute drive around this course

01:11:51 ◼   ► they'd set up around these roads.

01:11:52 ◼   ► - Now let me interrupt real quick.

01:11:54 ◼   ► Do you find that 17 inch monitor,

01:11:58 ◼   ► whatever the crap it is in the center console,

01:12:00 ◼   ► does that look ridiculous to you,

01:12:02 ◼   ► because it looks freaking ridiculous to me.

01:12:05 ◼   ► - It looks completely ridiculous when you look at it.

01:12:07 ◼   ► In the drive, like while driving,

01:12:10 ◼   ► I never had much of a reason to look at it.

01:12:12 ◼   ► 'Cause it sits pretty low.

01:12:13 ◼   ► And this is like part of the problem

01:12:15 ◼   ► is that the climate controls,

01:12:16 ◼   ► which are probably the most commonly accessed things for me,

01:12:18 ◼   ► are at the very bottom of that screen.

01:12:20 ◼   ► And so if I wanted to adjust the climate,

01:12:22 ◼   ► I didn't try doing this during the drive,

01:12:23 ◼   ► so take all those with a grain of salt.

01:12:26 ◼   ► If I wanted to just adjust the climate,

01:12:27 ◼   ► I have to like look pretty much like almost at the floor

01:12:30 ◼   ► to do a job, you have to look so far away from the road.

01:12:33 ◼   ► I'm not crazy about that and we'll see in practice,

01:12:37 ◼   ► maybe that'll change or maybe I don't know

01:12:38 ◼   ► about some option you can turn on.

01:12:40 ◼   ► A lot of this stuff is customizable

01:12:41 ◼   ► and I spent no time playing with the controls.

01:12:43 ◼   ► I was all about driving so I can't really discuss

01:12:46 ◼   ► the controls on any reasonable authority.

01:12:48 ◼   ► I would say that though the touch screen control

01:12:53 ◼   ► do look a little bit dated.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Like the whole theme of the UI is very much

01:12:58 ◼   ► like pre iOS 7, pre Metro, it's like, you know,

01:13:01 ◼   ► it looks like, yeah, it looks like iOS 6, basically,

01:13:05 ◼   ► but you know, less cartoony.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Anyway, so, get to the test drive, it's in insane mode,

01:13:11 ◼   ► so I get to fully experience the speed.

01:13:14 ◼   ► And so we stop, I have a clear road ahead of me,

01:13:17 ◼   ► I slam on the gas, and wow.

01:13:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, that good?

01:13:23 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:13:24 ◼   ► Like, holy handbrake, wow.

01:13:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:13:29 ◼   ► So, the hard, so like it only does that super hard

01:13:32 ◼   ► acceleration, like if you're in the Insane mode,

01:13:34 ◼   ► add a complete stop and you floor it.

01:13:36 ◼   ► I've never felt anything like that before.

01:13:38 ◼   ► There is no, the reason why it's so jarring

01:13:42 ◼   ► is that there is no transition from zero,

01:13:44 ◼   ► like you're at zero and then all of a sudden

01:13:46 ◼   ► you're just going.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And once you're going, it just feels like

01:13:51 ◼   ► an insanely fast car, but when you, from zero to going,

01:13:54 ◼   ► it almost feels like I'm getting hit in the face.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Like it was actually unpleasant.

01:13:58 ◼   ► Like I actually didn't like,

01:14:00 ◼   ► like it was actually uncomfortable and unpleasant.

01:14:03 ◼   ► Like it was like literally,

01:14:05 ◼   ► it feels like you're getting hit in the face.

01:14:06 ◼   ► Like I, if I actually owned this car,

01:14:10 ◼   ► I don't think I would really ever do that.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Because-- - Except to scare passengers.

01:14:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, except to scare passengers like once, you know.

01:14:15 ◼   ► Because like it really, it was actually unpleasant.

01:14:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:14:19 ◼   ► Because it's too fast.

01:14:21 ◼   ► And I did it a few times.

01:14:22 ◼   ► Like I did it at the beginning and the end

01:14:24 ◼   ► of the test drive just so I would like,

01:14:25 ◼   ► just so I would have some perception of like,

01:14:27 ◼   ► is it just the first time that it's unpleasant?

01:14:29 ◼   ► Do I get used to it?

01:14:30 ◼   ► Is it less bad?

01:14:31 ◼   ► Nope, it actually is unpleasant every time.

01:14:34 ◼   ► - So to put things in perspective,

01:14:37 ◼   ► according to Tesla's website,

01:14:38 ◼   ► the P85D does zero to 60 in 3.2 seconds.

01:14:42 ◼   ► Just as a rough equivalent,

01:14:46 ◼   ► the Aerosmith Rock and Roller Coaster at Walt Disney World

01:14:50 ◼   ► does zero to 57 miles an hour in 2.8 seconds.

01:14:54 ◼   ► So they're approximately equivalent.

01:14:56 ◼   ► This roller coaster takes pictures of everyone on the ride,

01:15:01 ◼   ► every single time the ride starts,

01:15:04 ◼   ► because everyone freaks out.

01:15:07 ◼   ► As a matter of fact, reading from Wikipedia,

01:15:09 ◼   ► the riders experience 4.5 Gs

01:15:11 ◼   ► as they enter the first inversion.

01:15:13 ◼   ► So in a lot of that is, I believe,

01:15:14 ◼   ► a combination of the acceleration and the turn itself.

01:15:18 ◼   ► That's basically you're driving a roller coaster.

01:15:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, as I said, that speed going from zero

01:15:26 ◼   ► to full in insane mode, I mean, it's a gimmick.

01:15:28 ◼   ► You don't have any reason to actually do that

01:15:30 ◼   ► in practice ever, but my God, it was so fast.

01:15:35 ◼   ► And as I said, that was actually unpleasant.

01:15:37 ◼   ► I actually don't have any need or want to do that.

01:15:40 ◼   ► - I think the 911 Turbo does it zero, 16, 2.9 or something.

01:15:43 ◼   ► So it's not even the fastest production car

01:15:45 ◼   ► that you can get from 60.

01:15:47 ◼   ► There are below, there are sub-three supercars out there.

01:15:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, but not a lot of them are these big,

01:15:52 ◼   ► heavy four-door sedans.

01:15:53 ◼   ► I mean, that's the big thing.

01:15:55 ◼   ► I think this is the only one.

01:15:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, you don't expect it to come out of them,

01:15:58 ◼   ► but what I'm saying is that this,

01:16:00 ◼   ► the three-second, being in the low to mid threes

01:16:03 ◼   ► has been a thing for supercars for a long time,

01:16:05 ◼   ► but it has not been a thing for a very long time

01:16:07 ◼   ► for four-door sedan-looking things.

01:16:09 ◼   ► - Right, I mean, my car is ridiculous,

01:16:11 ◼   ► and it does it in, I think, 4.2, 4.3, something like that.

01:16:14 ◼   ► So it's a pretty substantial difference.

01:16:17 ◼   ► Once you're going, when you're just driving normally,

01:16:19 ◼   ► It just feels like a really fast sports car.

01:16:21 ◼   ► I would say it is similar but faster than the M5.

01:16:25 ◼   ► It feels very similar like on the highway,

01:16:28 ◼   ► if you're passing somebody,

01:16:29 ◼   ► it actually isn't that different going from 60 to 80.

01:16:32 ◼   ► It feels about the same.

01:16:33 ◼   ► There actually is some responsiveness lag

01:16:36 ◼   ► when you're already going fast

01:16:37 ◼   ► and you wanna push it to go around somebody.

01:16:39 ◼   ► So it actually is very similar to a gas engine

01:16:42 ◼   ► like at highway speeds, it felt very similar to me.

01:16:44 ◼   ► - Do you think that might have just been

01:16:45 ◼   ► the acceleration curves on the pedal.

01:16:50 ◼   ► I don't figure what they call it,

01:16:52 ◼   ► but they have different curves,

01:16:53 ◼   ► like how much do you have to press the pedal

01:16:55 ◼   ► to add some proportional amount of engine.

01:16:58 ◼   ► And a lot of what car makers do

01:17:00 ◼   ► to make the car feel more or less sporty is to change.

01:17:03 ◼   ► What happens in the first inch of travel?

01:17:05 ◼   ► Does the second inch of travel add seven times

01:17:08 ◼   ► as much gas as the first inch of travel, or the reverse?

01:17:12 ◼   ► So I can imagine that,

01:17:14 ◼   ► especially since because it's all electronic,

01:17:15 ◼   ► or like they can decide how that curve,

01:17:17 ◼   ► like they can do a software update to change it,

01:17:18 ◼   ► or maybe it's the driving mode type of thing,

01:17:20 ◼   ► because it's one thing I wouldn't expect from a Tesla

01:17:23 ◼   ► is anything that is perceptible as lag

01:17:26 ◼   ► having to do with the nature of the drive train,

01:17:29 ◼   ► as opposed to just programming at a curve,

01:17:31 ◼   ► because there's no turbo spinning up, right?

01:17:32 ◼   ► There's no gears being changed.

01:17:34 ◼   ► It's just merely give more juice to the electric motors.

01:17:37 ◼   ► - I mean, like maybe I was slightly decelerating

01:17:39 ◼   ► right before I did that,

01:17:40 ◼   ► and the regeneration thing was kicked in.

01:17:42 ◼   ► So maybe I had to like disengage

01:17:43 ◼   ► the regenerative motor or the engine thing,

01:17:46 ◼   ► something like that.

01:17:46 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, and that's, with the one pedal driving,

01:17:49 ◼   ► how'd you like that, or were you doing that?

01:17:51 ◼   ► - That actually, so the M5 has a lot of engine suction.

01:17:55 ◼   ► So compared to the M5, it just felt like it had

01:17:59 ◼   ► a little bit more engine suction.

01:18:00 ◼   ► Like it was, I didn't do all one pedal driving,

01:18:03 ◼   ► I was using the brakes like a normal person,

01:18:05 ◼   ► but you could do it, I could see how you could do it.

01:18:09 ◼   ► I didn't do it really to come to complete stops,

01:18:11 ◼   ► I was just doing it to slow down,

01:18:13 ◼   ► the way I do with engine braking, so it was fine.

01:18:15 ◼   ► But yeah, anyway, so like driving around, the handling.

01:18:19 ◼   ► This, now, John, you had mentioned that the handling

01:18:22 ◼   ► feels like nothing else because it has the battery pack

01:18:24 ◼   ► very low, this giant heavy weight sitting very low,

01:18:27 ◼   ► so the center of gravity is very low,

01:18:29 ◼   ► and it handles very, like the car stays very flat.

01:18:32 ◼   ► Is that a fair assessment of what you said?

01:18:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it doesn't feel, the suspension

01:18:35 ◼   ► doesn't feel overly stiff, 'cause normally if a car is flat,

01:18:38 ◼   ► that's like, you know, 'cause they have very stiff

01:18:39 ◼   ► suspension, and then when you go over bumps,

01:18:40 ◼   ► you feel like you're being jostled.

01:18:41 ◼   ► - Right, going through the turns,

01:18:43 ◼   ► I would say that it actually didn't feel noticeably different

01:18:47 ◼   ► than my car because good sports cars

01:18:50 ◼   ► have always tried to achieve that.

01:18:51 ◼   ► They always try to have very little body roll

01:18:55 ◼   ► and they'll play tricks with bars or the suspension.

01:18:58 ◼   ► They'll play tricks to make it better

01:19:00 ◼   ► and to just minimize body roll

01:19:02 ◼   ► and keep the car flat during cornering.

01:19:05 ◼   ► So it felt great, but it didn't feel dramatically better

01:19:10 ◼   ► in cornering than a good sports car would.

01:19:12 ◼   ► - Did you go over potholes though?

01:19:14 ◼   ► Because that, like I think that's where you'd notice

01:19:16 ◼   ► because like I've driven your car for short distances

01:19:19 ◼   ► and driving your car over the totally destroyed roads

01:19:21 ◼   ► of Massachusetts, I could feel that this,

01:19:24 ◼   ► whatever mode you had in that this car

01:19:25 ◼   ► has sports car suspension.

01:19:26 ◼   ► Because like going over those potholes felt way rougher

01:19:29 ◼   ► than it does in my accord with its smooshy

01:19:31 ◼   ► like every man's suspension, right?

01:19:32 ◼   ► Whereas in the Tesla on the same crappy Massachusetts roads,

01:19:36 ◼   ► it felt flat like your car in turns,

01:19:38 ◼   ► but then you'd go over potholes

01:19:39 ◼   ► and it would also suck them up a little bit better.

01:19:41 ◼   ► I feel like the spring rates are softer on the Tesla

01:19:44 ◼   ► because they can afford to be

01:19:45 ◼   ► because the center of gravity is so low

01:19:47 ◼   ► and it's just less jostling.

01:19:48 ◼   ► But it may be a close thing,

01:19:50 ◼   ► but having been a passenger in the Tesla

01:19:53 ◼   ► and having driven your car,

01:19:55 ◼   ► I think the Tesla wins on comfort over terrible roads.

01:19:58 ◼   ► And I would assume yours wins in handling,

01:20:00 ◼   ► but I haven't driven either one of them

01:20:01 ◼   ► to say what the handling is like at the extremes.

01:20:04 ◼   ► - Well, okay, so the Tesla does have electric power steels.

01:20:09 ◼   ► steering. Now, I said a couple shows ago how I've never heard anybody say that electric

01:20:15 ◼   ► power steering was even as good as hydraulic steering. Everyone's always like, "Well,

01:20:21 ◼   ► it's getting better," but no one ever says it's as good. So this has electric power steering.

01:20:27 ◼   ► I would say it's as good.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Really?

01:20:29 ◼   ► I wouldn't say it's better, but I would say it's as good as the steering in my car.

01:20:32 ◼   ► Now again, this is only a 15-minute test drive, and so maybe if I owned one of these things

01:20:37 ◼   ► and drove it all the time, maybe I would have a different opinion of it. But in that test

01:20:42 ◼   ► drive we had a lot of nice turns at low and high speeds and I did not notice the steering.

01:20:49 ◼   ► Like I asked halfway through, I'm like, "Oh, is this electric power steering?" I realized,

01:20:53 ◼   ► "Oh, this is probably electric." And I asked and the guy said, "Yes." And I was very impressed

01:20:58 ◼   ► because it just felt like a good sports car steering system. And the suspension, I would

01:21:05 ◼   ► say the suspension felt like it was very advanced because I was able to have a lot of fun with

01:21:12 ◼   ► the steering and everything and the suspension and the speed and it never felt either too

01:21:18 ◼   ► marshmallowy like a Lexus or too uncomfortably firm like the 1M was. It just felt good but

01:21:25 ◼   ► you still felt the road, you still felt what was going on. And so I really had, I have

01:21:30 ◼   ► nothing bad to say about the steering or the suspension. Now, the grip. This, so this is

01:21:36 ◼   ► an all wheel drive car. As I said earlier, I'm a fan of all wheel drive. This car has,

01:21:43 ◼   ► in my 15 minutes of test drive, in 20 degree weather on snow tires, this car has the most

01:21:50 ◼   ► advanced all wheel drive system I've ever felt. By far, by far and away, the best all

01:21:56 ◼   ► drive I've ever felt. As measured by? By my previous xDrive 3 series and a

01:22:04 ◼   ► couple of Lexus's I've driven for parents and stuff and I think that's all

01:22:09 ◼   ► I don't think I've ever driven a Subaru to its extreme. The secret is they have a whole

01:22:12 ◼   ► separate engine for the other set of wheels. The all-wheel drive system in

01:22:16 ◼   ► this thing was shockingly good. I have like it was insane and the traction

01:22:21 ◼   ► control system now again this was cold weather so the tires were a little bit

01:22:26 ◼   ► a little bit hard, cold weather. There was, because it's New York and then it's the winter,

01:22:32 ◼   ► there was a bunch of gravel all over a lot of the roads. And I would do things like turning

01:22:36 ◼   ► left at an intersection, so like making a 90 degree turn from a stop, just like really

01:22:41 ◼   ► irresponsibly quickly. Just seeing if I could, like trying to lose grip. And I was able to

01:22:48 ◼   ► lose grip occasionally, but what's interesting about it is, not only is it very hard to lose

01:22:52 ◼   ► grip but when it does it's not like the gas systems where they just cut the engine power

01:22:57 ◼   ► for a few seconds which really kind of ruins the fun and makes people want to turn off

01:23:02 ◼   ► these systems.

01:23:03 ◼   ► Or they use the brakes to break individual wheels.

01:23:05 ◼   ► If it was doing that I don't know if it was.

01:23:07 ◼   ► If it was doing that I couldn't tell.

01:23:08 ◼   ► It just felt like it was the best feeling system I've ever felt.

01:23:12 ◼   ► I mean it was the best all-wheel drive system ever.

01:23:15 ◼   ► I cannot say enough good things about that all-wheel drive system and I don't know how

01:23:18 ◼   ► it does in the snow.

01:23:19 ◼   ► I didn't try it in the snow.

01:23:20 ◼   ► I didn't have the chance.

01:23:21 ◼   ► I've heard it's very good, but I don't know.

01:23:23 ◼   ► But just trying to drive it in a fun,

01:23:28 ◼   ► slightly irresponsible, spirited way, it was amazing.

01:23:31 ◼   ► It didn't feel like a nanny.

01:23:33 ◼   ► It felt like it was helping me do what I told the car to do.

01:23:36 ◼   ► When you go from, when you're doing that insane mode

01:23:39 ◼   ► acceleration from zero to a million,

01:23:42 ◼   ► and it hits you in the face with how fast it is,

01:23:45 ◼   ► at no point in that did I ever feel like it was unsafe

01:23:48 ◼   ► or about to lose control and go off the road.

01:23:50 ◼   ► I have to imagine that a big part of that is this all the drive system.

01:23:54 ◼   ► When you go from zero to going so quickly, you think like, how can the tires even do

01:23:58 ◼   ► this?

01:23:59 ◼   ► Like it feels like it should be beyond the limits of the tires of the grip they can offer,

01:24:03 ◼   ► but it still does it.

01:24:04 ◼   ► So tragic control system, all the drive system, incredible.

01:24:09 ◼   ► I would even like I would like I would intentionally like take a quick turn around like a little

01:24:13 ◼   ► bend and like intentionally put one of the rear wheels on gravel so that when I floored

01:24:17 ◼   ► it it would it should lose grip.

01:24:19 ◼   ► And it did, but it would regain it so quickly and you never felt like you were in any real

01:24:26 ◼   ► danger of going off the road or even slightly losing control.

01:24:31 ◼   ► It was incredible.

01:24:33 ◼   ► Overall driving this car, I would say, it is an amazing sports car.

01:24:38 ◼   ► Like I knew it would be fast.

01:24:41 ◼   ► I did not know it would be this sporty and this fun.

01:24:45 ◼   ► It was just an incredibly fun, sporty, fast, exhilarating drive.

01:24:49 ◼   ► I cannot say enough good things about how amazing this car felt to drive.

01:24:53 ◼   ► It's like the apple of cars, really.

01:24:55 ◼   ► Oh, here we go.

01:24:56 ◼   ► Here we go.

01:24:57 ◼   ► Anyway, I do have some concerns.

01:25:00 ◼   ► If I were to own one of these things, I of course do have range anxiety.

01:25:05 ◼   ► It goes like 260 miles in ideal circumstances.

01:25:08 ◼   ► They have a calculator on their site and it's like, "Okay, well, if you set the air conditioning

01:25:12 ◼   ► to this and you actually drive this fast on the highway, how much range can you actually

01:25:17 ◼   ► expect and mine was more like 200 miles because I was like alright well what if it's 100 degrees,

01:25:22 ◼   ► I have the air conditioning on and I'm driving 85. So then it's like down to like 200. So

01:25:27 ◼   ► it's not a deal killer but it's a big issue. I'm not sure I'd want this to be our only

01:25:31 ◼   ► car in our family. I know people who do that but I'm not sure I could do that. The bigger

01:25:37 ◼   ► issue with this and this ties back into what Apple might possibly do in this because I

01:25:41 ◼   ► think the answer is Apple would do something pretty similar to what Tesla's doing because

01:25:45 ◼   ► not much else because the problem is a bigger issue I think is charging speed and the reason

01:25:52 ◼   ► why is because electric cars beyond like you know the battery tech in order just to move

01:25:59 ◼   ► a car like this this far they just need a ton of power like by household electric power

01:26:06 ◼   ► standards they just need a ridiculous amount of power. The limitation is not how quickly

01:26:11 ◼   ► that batteries can accept a charge necessarily, it's much more limited by how much charge

01:26:17 ◼   ► your household wiring is able to give it with the kind of outlet you have installed.

01:26:21 ◼   ► Like that's the big limitation with these cars.

01:26:25 ◼   ► And they have special high-powered chargers you can install, but the biggest thing for

01:26:29 ◼   ► me, like my concern with a road trip would be, you know, problem one would be range,

01:26:33 ◼   ► but then the problem two is like where do you plug in when you get there?

01:26:36 ◼   ► To give you some point of reference, I did a little bit of research here.

01:26:38 ◼   ► So the common North American 120 volt outlet charges,

01:26:43 ◼   ► if you plug into that with a Model S,

01:26:46 ◼   ► you gain three miles of range per hour, three.

01:26:50 ◼   ► - That's not very good.

01:26:52 ◼   ► - It takes about four days to charge your car all the way.

01:26:56 ◼   ► So suppose you drive your car to somewhere

01:26:59 ◼   ► where the only place you can plug in

01:27:01 ◼   ► is through some long extension cord

01:27:02 ◼   ► into somebody's house or some hotel.

01:27:05 ◼   ► You can plug into a regular outlet, okay.

01:27:07 ◼   ► then you have to stay there for four days to fully charge.

01:27:10 ◼   ► So, you know, that's probably not a great option

01:27:13 ◼   ► for people, right?

01:27:15 ◼   ► Now, what you're supposed to do,

01:27:17 ◼   ► if you have one of these in your house,

01:27:18 ◼   ► is you're supposed to get a,

01:27:20 ◼   ► basically a dryer outlet installed,

01:27:22 ◼   ► a 200 volt, 40 amp outlet installed,

01:27:24 ◼   ► which is common for dryers these days.

01:27:26 ◼   ► Into a dryer outlet, you can charge the car up fully

01:27:28 ◼   ► in nine hours, which is great, so that's fine.

01:27:31 ◼   ► But like, you know, I drive frequently to places

01:27:34 ◼   ► like Upstate to in-laws house, from my mom's house.

01:27:37 ◼   ► I visited you guys at your houses before.

01:27:40 ◼   ► How likely is it that you're gonna drive somewhere

01:27:43 ◼   ► and you're gonna be able to plug into somebody's

01:27:46 ◼   ► extra dryer outlet and have that be within like 30 feet

01:27:50 ◼   ► of where your car is parked?

01:27:52 ◼   ► - Did you look for supercharger stations

01:27:54 ◼   ► along your normal routes?

01:27:55 ◼   ► - That's what I was gonna say,

01:27:56 ◼   ► because there's one very close to our house,

01:27:59 ◼   ► like 10, 15 minutes away.

01:28:00 ◼   ► Now to be fair, that doesn't necessarily mean

01:28:02 ◼   ► you would want to ditch your Tesla

01:28:04 ◼   ► 20 minutes away from the house.

01:28:05 ◼   ► - Oh, just leave it there?

01:28:06 ◼   ► - Well, the superchargers charge it

01:28:08 ◼   ► in less than an hour though, right?

01:28:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, they give you, I believe it's an 80% charge

01:28:12 ◼   ► in about 40 minutes.

01:28:13 ◼   ► So it's not a full charge, but it's enough

01:28:16 ◼   ► in something like 40 minutes.

01:28:17 ◼   ► Now, so I asked a couple Tesla owners,

01:28:20 ◼   ► and I did some reading of what do Tesla owners do?

01:28:23 ◼   ► How do you take road trips?

01:28:24 ◼   ► Because chances are you're not gonna wanna arrive

01:28:28 ◼   ► at someone's house nearly empty,

01:28:30 ◼   ► and then just not having able to plug in, that's not great.

01:28:35 ◼   ► And you're also probably not gonna wanna be

01:28:37 ◼   ► bugging your hotel or your friend's house

01:28:40 ◼   ► or your parents to be like,

01:28:41 ◼   ► "Hey, can I run this giant extension cord

01:28:44 ◼   ► "to your dryer outlets?"

01:28:45 ◼   ► Like, if they even have one.

01:28:49 ◼   ► How many people do know who have a spare dryer outlet,

01:28:51 ◼   ► period, let alone one that you can use

01:28:54 ◼   ► that is in range of your car, like physical range.

01:28:56 ◼   ► So that's not a great solution.

01:29:00 ◼   ► That's not a great position to be in.

01:29:01 ◼   ► And I've heard from a number of people,

01:29:03 ◼   ► thank you for all those people who've responded to me.

01:29:05 ◼   ► Heard from a number of people who have told me

01:29:07 ◼   ► about various like, there are apps and maps

01:29:10 ◼   ► and like there's a thing called Plugshare,

01:29:12 ◼   ► if I remember correctly, there's like a site

01:29:14 ◼   ► where like people can volunteer their houses

01:29:17 ◼   ► to other EV owners, like you can use my charging point

01:29:19 ◼   ► at my house if you're passing through.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Like that's all cool and everything,

01:29:23 ◼   ► but like that's, I really prefer to be independent

01:29:26 ◼   ► and to not need to rely on like, you know,

01:29:30 ◼   ► going around some weird neighborhood at night,

01:29:32 ◼   ► like trying to figure out like,

01:29:33 ◼   ► hey, where's the nearest charge point?

01:29:34 ◼   ► Can I charge up here?

01:29:35 ◼   ► Like trying to like bum something off somebody.

01:29:37 ◼   ► That's not my style.

01:29:37 ◼   ► I really would feel very uncomfortable doing that.

01:29:39 ◼   ► So you can do it, but it's not easy

01:29:43 ◼   ► and it's not convenient and it's not great.

01:29:45 ◼   ► And from what I gather, what most people do

01:29:48 ◼   ► is you basically supercharge right before you get somewhere.

01:29:51 ◼   ► And then when you leave, like on your way out,

01:29:53 ◼   ► you supercharge as you leave.

01:29:55 ◼   ► And that way you have like enough charge

01:29:56 ◼   ► to do some local driving while you're there.

01:29:58 ◼   ► And then, you know, on the highway you're fine.

01:30:00 ◼   ► But you know, every time you stop at a supercharger,

01:30:03 ◼   ► that adds like an hour to your trip.

01:30:04 ◼   ► You know, like you gotta get there, stop, plug in.

01:30:08 ◼   ► Hopefully there's nobody already taking up all the spots.

01:30:11 ◼   ► That's a big problem if there is,

01:30:12 ◼   ► 'cause that adds another 40 minutes to your trip

01:30:14 ◼   ► when you wait for them to come back.

01:30:16 ◼   ► Hopefully you plug in, you get 40 minutes of charge there,

01:30:19 ◼   ► you know, you go in and have some lunch or whatever,

01:30:21 ◼   ► but that's a big delay for a road trip,

01:30:24 ◼   ► especially if the trip's only like,

01:30:25 ◼   ► this is only every 250 miles or so.

01:30:27 ◼   ► So like, it's only like every three or four hours,

01:30:31 ◼   ► you gotta stop for an hour.

01:30:32 ◼   ► Like that's, that kinda sucks.

01:30:35 ◼   ► - Now, did they ever actually start doing

01:30:38 ◼   ► the five minute complete battery swap?

01:30:41 ◼   ► You know what I'm talking about?

01:30:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, they talked about that.

01:30:43 ◼   ► I don't know if that's ever,

01:30:43 ◼   ► if it's actually deployed anywhere.

01:30:45 ◼   ► And I'm not sure that I would do it necessarily,

01:30:47 ◼   ► but it's an interesting idea.

01:30:49 ◼   ► 'Cause, you know, again, like the problem here is

01:30:52 ◼   ► just the speed at which you can deliver this much power

01:30:56 ◼   ► into such a tremendous battery pack.

01:30:58 ◼   ► I mean, and that's gonna be hard to solve.

01:31:01 ◼   ► And this is like, if Apple does a pure electric vehicle,

01:31:04 ◼   ► you could do a fuel cell.

01:31:06 ◼   ► You know, fuel cells are options.

01:31:07 ◼   ► I know Toyota announced, I think today,

01:31:09 ◼   ► that they're doing a fuel cell vehicle,

01:31:10 ◼   ► so that's interesting.

01:31:12 ◼   ► But then you need hydrogen everywhere,

01:31:14 ◼   ► that's kind of, that has its own set of challenges

01:31:16 ◼   ► and issues, and anyway, so this is a problem.

01:31:20 ◼   ► You know, it's not a deal killer for a lot of people.

01:31:22 ◼   ► But it is certainly a major inconvenience.

01:31:24 ◼   ► You know, the fact that you can't just

01:31:26 ◼   ► fill up anywhere and that filling up takes so long.

01:31:30 ◼   ► That is really a problem.

01:31:31 ◼   ► And again, not a deal killer for a lot of people,

01:31:33 ◼   ► but a significant problem

01:31:35 ◼   ► and a significant barrier to adoption.

01:31:37 ◼   ► Anyway, so I have some reservations

01:31:40 ◼   ► about whether I should own one of these things.

01:31:43 ◼   ► The practical side of it, that would concern me.