ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► So I hear you I hear you really like new max these days, huh, so it's some follow-up

00:00:04 ◼   ► nice try Casey

00:00:07 ◼   ► John why don't you tell us about marathon running? Well last show we talked about what?

00:00:13 ◼   ► What you might want out of the watch if you're using it to do not just fitness tracking in terms of how much am I?

00:00:19 ◼   ► moving kind of fitness but

00:00:21 ◼   ► More serious how far have I run where have I run and we mentioned a GPS?

00:00:28 ◼   ► Being superior like a dedicated was dedicated big ugly GPS things being superior to just the watch because the watch doesn't have any GPS

00:00:34 ◼   ► Aaron wrote in to say that

00:00:36 ◼   ► his experience with the Apple watch as a runner are not great even when the phone is with him says the

00:00:42 ◼   ► Quality of Apple watches ability to track depends on how you hold your phone if you hold your phone in your hand or wear it

00:00:48 ◼   ► On your arm, it does a very good job

00:00:49 ◼   ► If you were out on your waist then under measures you run by about 5%

00:00:52 ◼   ► Which of course is terrible if you're a serious runner and you want to know exactly how far you ran

00:00:57 ◼   ► So, he goes on to say that, what is it, he and his wife, yes, that we really like the

00:01:05 ◼   ► extra abilities the watch give us.

00:01:07 ◼   ► We can control our songs and podcasts, receive and send childcare-related messages without

00:01:10 ◼   ► fear of dropping our phone in the cement, and there's a grocery store on their route

00:01:13 ◼   ► that takes Apple Pay so they can use their watch to pay for things there.

00:01:17 ◼   ► As a result, you know, so they're annoyed by the watch's inability to accurately track

00:01:21 ◼   ► their runs because they don't like to wear their phone on their arm or hold it in their

00:01:26 ◼   ► hand.

00:01:27 ◼   ► like all his other abilities. So right now they're running with two watches. The Apple

00:01:30 ◼   ► Watch on one hand and the Garmin GPS thing on the other. And he says you can't wear them

00:01:34 ◼   ► on the same wrist because they literally press each other's buttons. So this is not, this

00:01:39 ◼   ► would not be like featured in an ad for, I guess, for the Apple Watch showing someone

00:01:43 ◼   ► running with their Garmin GPS watch and the Apple Watch. But apparently this is the current

00:01:49 ◼   ► reality for people who are really serious about exactly tracking their runs. But it's

00:01:53 ◼   ► interesting that Apple Watch has tagged along for the ride for its other

00:01:56 ◼   ► abilities and for like even like the minor ones like well why don't you just

00:01:59 ◼   ► bring your phone with you then you can text to childcare related things or

00:02:03 ◼   ► whatever. Why do you need to bring the watch? Well you don't want to bring the

00:02:06 ◼   ► big phone and so you bring the watch just so you can have a slightly smaller

00:02:09 ◼   ► thing that you don't have to carry that you can text from and it seems like that

00:02:13 ◼   ► is enough of a use case to get that watch to come on board for the run.

00:02:17 ◼   ► Well the phone has to be with them in order to send and receive the messages

00:02:22 ◼   ► But yeah, I gotta imagine that doing so from the watch for simple things is a lot easier

00:02:27 ◼   ► than getting your phone out of whatever holster-like contraption.

00:02:30 ◼   ► Right, like then you can just put it somewhere where it's like, I mean, it could be in a

00:02:33 ◼   ► backpack or in anything.

00:02:35 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be accessible.

00:02:36 ◼   ► And the whole idea of worrying about dropping it while you're running, I mean, because I

00:02:40 ◼   ► don't know how good people are, right?

00:02:41 ◼   ► Could you get a phone out of your shorts pockets while you run or out of a holster thing and

00:02:45 ◼   ► then, I don't know, worried about looking down at your thing, maybe?

00:02:47 ◼   ► Well, the good thing is most shorts pockets are so ridiculously shallow, especially athletic

00:02:51 ◼   ► shorts that your phone will just naturally almost be falling out of it all the time anyway,

00:02:55 ◼   ► so it shouldn't be too hard to get it out.

00:02:56 ◼   ► It'll leap out of your pocket into your hand.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Exactly, hopefully.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Oh my goodness.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Oh, all right.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Well, it's funny to hear this feedback.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I am not a particularly serious runner.

00:03:08 ◼   ► In fact, I haven't ran in a long time, and I should probably be shamed for that.

00:03:13 ◼   ► However, it's odd because of the feedback I've seen through Twitter and various websites

00:03:20 ◼   ► whatnot. Everything I've seen has said that the watch was eerily accurate. Now, again,

00:03:25 ◼   ► I can't really speak to this one way or the other, but this is the first piece of feedback

00:03:31 ◼   ► that I've come across that said that the watch wasn't, if not very close, eerily close.

00:03:36 ◼   ► So, in all fairness, Apple did just release a software update that was after this email

00:03:41 ◼   ► came in that allegedly improves this and also gives instructions the first time you launch

00:03:46 ◼   ► the workout app that you should do like a basic 20 minute walk with your iPhone present

00:03:52 ◼   ► with the watch, running the workout app to kind of calibrate it. I think we talked about

00:03:57 ◼   ► this last episode.

00:03:58 ◼   ► Well, this complaint is about even when you have the phone with you, he's saying compared

00:04:01 ◼   ► to his Garmin, that the phone is under measuring if the phone is on your waist. If the phone

00:04:07 ◼   ► is on your arm or in your hand, it's fine, but if the phone is on your waist, that it's

00:04:10 ◼   ► under measuring by 5%. Maybe the software update helps us because this feedback was

00:04:14 ◼   ► from before the software update? I don't know. Yeah, it beats me. What else do we have? This

00:04:19 ◼   ► is from Christopher and he gives one more reason that runners and cyclists want a cellular

00:04:24 ◼   ► radio on their watch. This is assuming they don't have their phone, is in case they get

00:04:27 ◼   ► injured and can't get back from wherever they are. So if you run or bike long distances

00:04:31 ◼   ► and halfway through your journey something happens that you can no longer run because

00:04:35 ◼   ► you twist your ankle or something or your bike, you know, your brakes or you get hit

00:04:39 ◼   ► by a car or something, you want to be able to contact someone to come and get you or

00:04:43 ◼   ► or call 911 or whatever and you can't do that with your watch

00:04:47 ◼   ► if you don't have your phone with you.

00:04:48 ◼   ► - I mean that's a really good reason,

00:04:50 ◼   ► but that just sounds like if you're gonna be

00:04:52 ◼   ► doing something like that in a remote area,

00:04:55 ◼   ► it just sounds like you should probably

00:04:56 ◼   ► just bring your phone.

00:04:57 ◼   ► - Well I mean, we were talking before,

00:04:59 ◼   ► what would it take for you to leave your phone at home?

00:05:02 ◼   ► And for people who want to leave their phone at home,

00:05:04 ◼   ► I can imagine people who are doing athletic activities

00:05:06 ◼   ► every little bit, even if you have it strapped to your arm

00:05:08 ◼   ► or your waist or whatever, it's kind of an annoyance

00:05:11 ◼   ► and it adds up.

00:05:12 ◼   ► What would it take for serious runners and cyclists to leave their phone home? It sounds like

00:05:16 ◼   ► You know more accurate

00:05:18 ◼   ► Tracking of where you are so maybe GPS and at the very least some ability to like a 911 call or something or like

00:05:27 ◼   ► I you know a single call home or something like that

00:05:29 ◼   ► For a cell radio, so we're not there yet, but I assume in several more generations. This will be possible

00:05:36 ◼   ► That's what we've been saying about max with cellular radios, so we haven't seen that quite yet

00:05:40 ◼   ► It's totally possible right now. We're there. It is possible. It hasn't happened, but it's

00:05:45 ◼   ► possible.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I think at this point it's pretty clear that Apple just does not think they need to

00:05:50 ◼   ► put cell radios in Macs, because they could have so long ago, and there have been so many

00:05:54 ◼   ► opportunities to, it's very clear that they just want you to use the phone tethering feature

00:05:58 ◼   ► that I think you have somebody introduce the automatic thing where it just detects it in

00:06:02 ◼   ► the Bluetooth menu sometimes.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Even when it didn't auto detect it, you could still use it for tethering, but that's their

00:06:08 ◼   ► solution is tethering we're just like we're just we should be glad that they

00:06:11 ◼   ► didn't decide the way you connect the iPhone the iPad to a cell network as you

00:06:14 ◼   ► tether it to a phone like why did that one happen to get the cell radio they

00:06:17 ◼   ► could have just said you know what all cell radio communication if you buy

00:06:22 ◼   ► Apple products goes through your app your iPhone I almost called the Apple

00:06:26 ◼   ► phone see what you do an apple make up your mind in the names here but they

00:06:30 ◼   ► didn't they said the iPad can have a cell radio too but no max all right why

00:06:34 ◼   ► Why don't you tell us about what's going on in India?

00:06:36 ◼   ► This is from Akshay and it is about the, what is it, the world's, India's biggest online

00:06:43 ◼   ► retailer planning to go app only.

00:06:45 ◼   ► This goes back to our conversation about Facebook instant articles and Marco's doomsaying about

00:06:51 ◼   ► the future of the web.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Here is an online retailer saying that they're just not going to have a website anymore,

00:06:58 ◼   ► I guess.

00:06:59 ◼   ► This place is called Flipkart and it's from this article says it's going to move to an

00:07:03 ◼   ► app only format within a year.

00:07:05 ◼   ► One of their VP says,

00:07:07 ◼   ► "A year ago, 6% of our traffic was coming from mobile

00:07:09 ◼   ► "and in less than 18 months that traffic is tenfold."

00:07:12 ◼   ► So what is that, 60?

00:07:14 ◼   ► They can do that math in my head.

00:07:16 ◼   ► It seems premature,

00:07:17 ◼   ► maybe if 60% of your traffic is coming from apps

00:07:19 ◼   ► to say by the end of the year,

00:07:21 ◼   ► you're gonna go 100% app.

00:07:23 ◼   ► I don't know if they're gonna tear down their website,

00:07:25 ◼   ► but anyway, this is not just some random place

00:07:27 ◼   ► doing this for publicity.

00:07:29 ◼   ► This is a store with more than 40 million registered users

00:07:32 ◼   ► and 30,000 merchants selling 20 million products.

00:07:36 ◼   ► Indie is a big place, this is a big store.

00:07:38 ◼   ► The fact that they're planning on even trying

00:07:40 ◼   ► to go app only shows that how much things have changed.

00:07:44 ◼   ► I don't think Amazon's going app only anytime soon,

00:07:46 ◼   ► but I don't know about you guys,

00:07:48 ◼   ► when I shop, maybe I'm just an old fogey again,

00:07:50 ◼   ► but when I shop online,

00:07:52 ◼   ► the app is sometimes good if I know exactly what I want,

00:07:55 ◼   ► but I always feel like I'm getting

00:07:57 ◼   ► more of a cut down experience,

00:07:58 ◼   ► even on the big iPhone 6,

00:08:00 ◼   ► maybe on the 6 Plus it wouldn't feel as cut down,

00:08:02 ◼   ► but I want to go to the actual website.

00:08:05 ◼   ► And frequently I want to have a big screen

00:08:06 ◼   ► so I can have multiple tabs and multiple windows

00:08:09 ◼   ► to compare this product to that product

00:08:10 ◼   ► and so on and so forth.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I kind of feel constrained when doing anything serious

00:08:15 ◼   ► like price comparisons and shopping

00:08:17 ◼   ► and looking for things from a mobile device.

00:08:19 ◼   ► So I hope the web stays around a little longer

00:08:22 ◼   ► because I really don't like buying things on my phone.

00:08:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

00:08:26 ◼   ► I don't shop from any one single retailer often enough

00:08:29 ◼   ► justify installing an app except maybe Amazon. And I recently installed the Amazon app. And

00:08:36 ◼   ► for the life of me, I can't remember why, but I believe I've deleted it from all my devices

00:08:41 ◼   ► because I hate using it. I'd much rather go to the website, even on like an iPad, I'd much rather be

00:08:46 ◼   ► on the website for the exact same reasons you said, Jon, that I feel like I'm getting a kind of

00:08:51 ◼   ► neutered experience on the Amazon app. And for all I know, that could be patently untrue, but that's

00:08:56 ◼   ► That's just what it feels like to me.

00:08:58 ◼   ► And one way or the other, I just don't see the point

00:09:02 ◼   ► in having an app that's really just a native front end

00:09:05 ◼   ► for a website when it comes to shopping.

00:09:07 ◼   ► I mean, you could make the same arguments

00:09:09 ◼   ► for like Instagram and things like that,

00:09:10 ◼   ► but for shopping, I'd much rather use the website.

00:09:15 ◼   ► The only exception that I can think of

00:09:19 ◼   ► is the Apple Store app, which I keep on my phone,

00:09:22 ◼   ► mostly for the rare occasions I'm going into the Apple Store

00:09:25 ◼   ► for things like EasySteal or whatever they call it,

00:09:28 ◼   ► and for the rare occasions that I decide to buy watches

00:09:32 ◼   ► that I swore up and down I wouldn't buy.

00:09:34 ◼   ► But I don't know, Marco, do you use store apps

00:09:37 ◼   ► or are you a web kind of guy?

00:09:40 ◼   ► - So I'm kind of halfway between you old fogies

00:09:42 ◼   ► and the rest of the world.

00:09:44 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:09:45 ◼   ► I, sorry, I'm also an old fogie,

00:09:49 ◼   ► but in this one particular way,

00:09:51 ◼   ► I'm a little bit closer to the rest of the world

00:09:53 ◼   ► than you guys sounds like, so.

00:09:54 ◼   ► - Get off my lawn.

00:09:55 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:09:56 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:09:58 ◼   ► So I have the Amazon app and the Apple Store app.

00:10:00 ◼   ► I don't have any others for stores,

00:10:02 ◼   ► but I do buy a lot from Amazon.

00:10:04 ◼   ► And you know, the Apple app is great

00:10:06 ◼   ► because their online store isn't really that much better

00:10:10 ◼   ► than the app.

00:10:11 ◼   ► In some ways it's worse, in some ways it's slower.

00:10:13 ◼   ► The app is always the fastest way to pre-order hardware

00:10:17 ◼   ► at 3 a.m. when they do the new releases and stuff.

00:10:20 ◼   ► Touch ID is awesome, et cetera.

00:10:22 ◼   ► The Amazon app is different,

00:10:23 ◼   ► but the Amazon app, I didn't install it,

00:10:27 ◼   ► I've been buying almost everything that I buy

00:10:29 ◼   ► from Amazon for years, and I only installed the app

00:10:33 ◼   ► about six months ago, but I've actually

00:10:36 ◼   ► gotten into using it.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I don't usually place orders from the app,

00:10:40 ◼   ► unless it's just like refilling something

00:10:41 ◼   ► that I already know is good that I want,

00:10:43 ◼   ► like oh, we're out of dishwasher detergent,

00:10:45 ◼   ► okay, you know, add that, whatever.

00:10:47 ◼   ► But I do frequently use the app to add things to my cart

00:10:52 ◼   ► without actually completing the buy process.

00:10:55 ◼   ► So it kind of like as a reminder,

00:10:56 ◼   ► as like a save for later kind of thing.

00:10:59 ◼   ► Like if I'm out, I'm like the other day,

00:11:00 ◼   ► oh I'm outside, oh let me look up,

00:11:02 ◼   ► I keep forgetting to buy pressure washer detergent.

00:11:05 ◼   ► So let me look that up quickly and just add one to my car

00:11:07 ◼   ► and I'll go back later when I order something

00:11:10 ◼   ► off of Amazon next, which is probably gonna be

00:11:11 ◼   ► within a couple of weeks, then I'll see it

00:11:13 ◼   ► and oh, I have to go finish this research

00:11:16 ◼   ► and buy this or don't buy this.

00:11:18 ◼   ► So it is nice for that.

00:11:19 ◼   ► People in the chat are telling me there's all these

00:11:21 ◼   ► abilities about scanning barcodes in the real world

00:11:24 ◼   ► and comparing stuff, and I don't do any of that yet,

00:11:26 ◼   ► maybe I will in the future, but I do see the point

00:11:29 ◼   ► of the app, furthermore, I think us saying,

00:11:34 ◼   ► oh, well we don't really buy things in the apps,

00:11:37 ◼   ► we prefer to buy things in the websites,

00:11:38 ◼   ► that's kind of like people saying, well,

00:11:41 ◼   ► I don't like to buy things on the internet,

00:11:43 ◼   ► I like to just look things up, maybe then go to a store

00:11:46 ◼   ► and buy them, I don't wanna type my credit card

00:11:48 ◼   ► in on the internet, maybe I'll look something up

00:11:50 ◼   ► the yellow pages, like, it just, it's--

00:11:52 ◼   ► - I think it's the opposite, because we, it's the opposite.

00:11:55 ◼   ► It's more like, the comparison I would draw is,

00:11:58 ◼   ► when the power users complain that all the power user

00:12:00 ◼   ► features they want are going away,

00:12:01 ◼   ► but it really doesn't matter,

00:12:02 ◼   ► because the rest of the world wants a simpler product.

00:12:04 ◼   ► And what I'm anyway complaining about is,

00:12:07 ◼   ► there are features available on the website

00:12:09 ◼   ► that aren't available in the app that I use.

00:12:10 ◼   ► And maybe most people don't use them,

00:12:12 ◼   ► and that's why I think it's not analogous to,

00:12:14 ◼   ► like, you know, I'm not ready for the future,

00:12:16 ◼   ► I wanna buy things in a store instead of online.

00:12:18 ◼   ► because in that case the online experience gave more features than the in-person one

00:12:22 ◼   ► because you can comparison shop and do all sorts of stuff when you're in a physical store,

00:12:25 ◼   ► all you can do is look at what's there.

00:12:27 ◼   ► And like the example, what kind of features am I talking about?

00:12:29 ◼   ► So recently I bought swim fins for my kids.

00:12:33 ◼   ► I had no specific swim fin in mind that I wanted to do, so I wanted to see a lot of

00:12:36 ◼   ► reviews and you can see the reviews in the mobile app and you can see more of them on

00:12:40 ◼   ► the website and it's easier to have a separate window with just your reviews and looking

00:12:43 ◼   ► at them and trying to find a fin that you wanted and eventually you get it and their

00:12:47 ◼   ► size like one two three four five and I have no idea what one two three four five mean.

00:12:50 ◼   ► And so then I want to look at the little answer question and answers that I was on

00:12:53 ◼   ► added a few years ago someone saying hey how do I find out what the heck size two means what size

00:12:57 ◼   ► shoot is that correspond to oh there's a sizing chart on the people's website and you pick up

00:13:00 ◼   ► the people's website you have the sizing chart and like I'm the experience of figuring out what

00:13:05 ◼   ► swim fin to buy what size to buy it in like that is the experience that I need the website for

00:13:11 ◼   ► because on the app I it was harder to get that information I can't compare two things at once

00:13:16 ◼   ► I don't know if I would even have found the sizing chart thing, which was like a mouseover

00:13:20 ◼   ► thing that made this little table appear on the site that I actually found it on.

00:13:23 ◼   ► That mouseover wouldn't even have worked on mobile.

00:13:26 ◼   ► All that information that I know is there.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Amazon provides me a way to find the answers to these questions, which is one of the reasons

00:13:32 ◼   ► I'm shopping on Amazon, all these features that they added.

00:13:35 ◼   ► When I'm doing it in the app, all it says is, "Here's the thing.

00:13:38 ◼   ► Here's the price.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Pick a size from a pop-up menu and then read the reviews here."

00:13:43 ◼   ► I'm missing features.

00:13:45 ◼   ► And I feel like that makes Amazon less valuable to me if they try it, because it's not cut

00:13:48 ◼   ► and dried.

00:13:49 ◼   ► I'm not just like ordering my next run of paper towels from Amazon to come in.

00:13:52 ◼   ► It's like research for something I want to buy.

00:13:55 ◼   ► And it's the type of research that's way easier to do online.

00:13:57 ◼   ► I'm not going to go to 17 different sporting goods stores and have to do it at a time when

00:14:01 ◼   ► I can drag my kids there so they can try on swim fins and everything.

00:14:04 ◼   ► I know their shoe size.

00:14:05 ◼   ► I've got to find a swim fin that people say is pretty good, that it's not a piece of junk,

00:14:08 ◼   ► that has a reasonable price, that it will ship in a reasonable amount of time, that

00:14:11 ◼   ► is sized the way I want it.

00:14:13 ◼   ► And I guess what I'm saying is it's not app versus web that bothers me, it's features.

00:14:18 ◼   ► If you make a web application, or if you make an iOS application that, for example, runs

00:14:24 ◼   ► on the iPad and gives a fancier, more feature-filled purchase experience than the phone version

00:14:31 ◼   ► does, I would probably be all on board with that.

00:14:33 ◼   ► I'm not tied to the web because I specifically like the web.

00:14:36 ◼   ► I'm more tied to having a big screen where I can look at lots of things at the same time,

00:14:40 ◼   ► and having access to all the features

00:14:41 ◼   ► that these e-commerce sites have added over the years

00:14:43 ◼   ► that are useful for figuring out

00:14:45 ◼   ► what the hell you wanna buy.

00:14:46 ◼   ► - Well, and that's exactly it.

00:14:47 ◼   ► You know, obviously in the case of us

00:14:49 ◼   ► looking up stuff on Amazon,

00:14:50 ◼   ► looking at reviews and specs and stuff,

00:14:52 ◼   ► Amazon was built for the web first.

00:14:55 ◼   ► And the web is probably still their biggest platform,

00:14:57 ◼   ► but I think it's clear to see the trend lines here

00:15:01 ◼   ► where more and more activity and browsing and computing

00:15:05 ◼   ► and purchasing is being done on mobile

00:15:07 ◼   ► And so much of that is being done in apps, not on websites.

00:15:11 ◼   ► And that number seems to be increasing.

00:15:13 ◼   ► And if you look at the store Flipkart in India,

00:15:17 ◼   ► their customer base is dramatically increasing it.

00:15:21 ◼   ► And that could have to do with differences

00:15:23 ◼   ► in cell phone adoption versus computer adoption

00:15:25 ◼   ► in India versus here.

00:15:26 ◼   ► But for the most part, I think we're seeing

00:15:28 ◼   ► the same general trend everywhere,

00:15:29 ◼   ► which is mobile is taking over big time,

00:15:32 ◼   ► and apps on mobile are way more important

00:15:34 ◼   ► websites on mobile for the most part today. And that trend is only going more in that

00:15:39 ◼   ► direction. It's not like we're waiting for the web to catch up on mobile. I think the

00:15:43 ◼   ► web is not going to catch up on mobile. But there's probably going to be both website,

00:15:48 ◼   ► web stores and app stores for most major retailers for a long time. The main problems you have,

00:15:53 ◼   ► as you said, this is an implementation detail just among the Amazon app today versus the

00:15:57 ◼   ► Amazon website today. That's going to change over time. They're going to make the app better.

00:16:02 ◼   ► They're going to make more stuff possible in the app,

00:16:04 ◼   ► but they're gonna make stuff better in the app

00:16:06 ◼   ► because that's where they should be pouring their attention

00:16:09 ◼   ► as people use it more.

00:16:11 ◼   ► And Amazon's good about that.

00:16:12 ◼   ► They will do it.

00:16:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that you're definitely in the popular crowd

00:16:18 ◼   ► in thinking that the app is the way to go.

00:16:21 ◼   ► And I think that Jon and I are kind of clinging

00:16:24 ◼   ► to our old-timey ways, but I just,

00:16:28 ◼   ► I don't like to have any app on my phone

00:16:32 ◼   ► that I either don't use regularly

00:16:36 ◼   ► or don't absolutely need in a pinch.

00:16:38 ◼   ► Like for example, Uber, I don't use regularly,

00:16:40 ◼   ► but man, when I need it, I want it to be there.

00:16:43 ◼   ► And the Amazon app, like Jon has said,

00:16:45 ◼   ► doesn't really help me in any way that I use anyway,

00:16:49 ◼   ► and it hurts me in that it prevents me

00:16:52 ◼   ► from doing things like having multiple tabs open

00:16:53 ◼   ► and things like that.

00:16:55 ◼   ► - And like I said, I don't think it's old timey versus new.

00:16:58 ◼   ► I think it's features and a good example of this is the App Store which has a web interface, but it's terrible

00:17:03 ◼   ► No one like you can't actually do it from the web

00:17:05 ◼   ► But say you could like you know what the web if you and land on one of the web pages for the App Store

00:17:09 ◼   ► There's like nothing there. You can't do anything. It's just like this shell of a thing

00:17:12 ◼   ► That's a case where the application has more features and even though it's a website and even though it's a big window and you can

00:17:18 ◼   ► Have multiple ones open at once you would never want to do that because the features that you care about

00:17:21 ◼   ► Like even just like reading more than three reviews

00:17:24 ◼   ► I think the web ones just show like an abbreviated version of a couple of reviews or whatever

00:17:27 ◼   ► the app has more features there.

00:17:29 ◼   ► And so it's not so much app versus web,

00:17:31 ◼   ► it's like, where are the features?

00:17:33 ◼   ► And maybe it's just like, okay,

00:17:34 ◼   ► Amazon was born on the web and their app is crappy,

00:17:38 ◼   ► and newer stores that are more app native

00:17:40 ◼   ► will do a better job.

00:17:42 ◼   ► I could see that happening,

00:17:43 ◼   ► but the second level problem is what Casey was talking about,

00:17:46 ◼   ► why he doesn't wanna have a million stores on his phone.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Like the web, you put Safari there

00:17:50 ◼   ► and you get Denny Web Store.

00:17:52 ◼   ► And this actually is a reason

00:17:55 ◼   ► that retailers probably love apps.

00:17:56 ◼   ► the apps you're not going to have an app for every store you are going to

00:17:58 ◼   ► necessarily be limited by the store apps that are on your device if you're in

00:18:03 ◼   ► like an app mindset like I buy things through apps if you don't find yourself

00:18:07 ◼   ► buying things through Safari it's kind of like well I can go to Target but I can't

00:18:12 ◼   ► go to Kmart because there's no Kmart in my town like the other one is really

00:18:16 ◼   ► far away it's like well you know Kmart exists and you know you can get there

00:18:19 ◼   ► but you know convenience sake you're gonna go to the one that's close to you

00:18:22 ◼   ► If you only have five apps on your phone, you're like, well, I could buy this thing at some other location

00:18:27 ◼   ► But I don't actually have that app on my phone. I have this app on my phone. So let me do it

00:18:30 ◼   ► I'm not gonna go to the App Store and download like you can't download every retailer's app. So

00:18:34 ◼   ► Retailers getting their apps onto your phone because once you have like say you have uber do you also have the lift app?

00:18:40 ◼   ► Do you also have the whatever, you know competitor to the uber is gonna come out in the future?

00:18:43 ◼   ► You're gonna have 17 different apps for getting rides

00:18:45 ◼   ► You're gonna pick maybe one or two and once those one or two are on your phone

00:18:49 ◼   ► it's harder for the competitor to get their app on your phone because you already feel like you have that need covered whereas if they

00:18:55 ◼   ► Were all just websites every time you launch Safari

00:18:57 ◼   ► It's up for grabs where you end up based on like a Google search or you know a bookmark or whatever

00:19:01 ◼   ► Well, but a lot of that applies to the web too

00:19:03 ◼   ► I mean like you like having having your credit cards saved in a site having a site having a good online purchase

00:19:10 ◼   ► Experience or a good online store

00:19:12 ◼   ► I mean there there are so many things that like that

00:19:14 ◼   ► I just buy on Amazon because I used to buy them on their vendors site

00:19:18 ◼   ► but their vendor site is slow and awful.

00:19:20 ◼   ► And I just, it's so much easier to just order it from Amazon,

00:19:23 ◼   ► so I just do it there.

00:19:24 ◼   ► Like there are these same kind of like lock-in style effects

00:19:29 ◼   ► on the web, that isn't really that exclusive.

00:19:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it takes a little bit of a step.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - But I think in a web, you'll do a search though.

00:19:36 ◼   ► Like you'll do a search for something,

00:19:38 ◼   ► like you don't know where you wanna buy something.

00:19:39 ◼   ► Like you won't feel yourself limited to,

00:19:42 ◼   ► if you're starting in a store,

00:19:44 ◼   ► you've already chosen practically where you're gonna buy it.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Whereas if you're starting on the web,

00:19:48 ◼   ► You don't know where you're going to buy it yet.

00:19:50 ◼   ► You're just trying to see what's out there, what kind of options are out there.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Even something like the sweet home where you're like, I don't know anything about whatever

00:19:56 ◼   ► it is, like humidifiers or something.

00:20:01 ◼   ► I'm going to find out what is a good humidifier to buy.

00:20:04 ◼   ► If you start that by launching an app, you've already practically decided where you're going

00:20:08 ◼   ► to buy it and you're just going to say what seven humidifiers does Amazon have.

00:20:11 ◼   ► If you did a Google search, you might end up on Marco's humidifier thing, you might

00:20:14 ◼   ► end up on the sweet home or whatever, and that could leave you to a store eventually,

00:20:17 ◼   ► but you would be learning about what to buy. I don't know. I see advantages to the app

00:20:24 ◼   ► approach. If you do the app well, I see advantages for the vendors, but I see a lot of downsides

00:20:29 ◼   ► for sort of the old-school unconscious lock-in of the stores that are actually near your

00:20:34 ◼   ► house influence where you buy stuff in the pre-internet days.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Sure, but I think my yellow page remark earlier applies to a larger degree here, which is

00:20:44 ◼   ► like if you look at the world today, apps and web, et cetera, right now do you think

00:20:51 ◼   ► you could launch a new restaurant or a new shop in a town without having an entry in

00:20:56 ◼   ► the Yellow Pages?

00:20:57 ◼   ► But the Yellow Pages was just a directory. Like you weren't actually going there, you

00:21:01 ◼   ► know?

00:21:02 ◼   ► Well, but okay, but a lot of people when they would need a certain type of business or be

00:21:06 ◼   ► searching for a type of store or a type of business person, they would look in the Yellow

00:21:11 ◼   ► Pages for a long time.

00:21:12 ◼   ► And so--

00:21:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, web search replaced that though.

00:21:15 ◼   ► - Well, so what I'm saying is, this is a metaphor, John,

00:21:17 ◼   ► this is a reference.

00:21:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:19 ◼   ► So what I'm saying is that at some point,

00:21:22 ◼   ► you know, today you can launch something new

00:21:24 ◼   ► and you don't really have to think about

00:21:26 ◼   ► placement in the Yellow Pages or buying an ad there

00:21:28 ◼   ► because enough people find stuff on the web now

00:21:31 ◼   ► that it's probably not even worth your time

00:21:33 ◼   ► to make an entry in the Yellow Pages

00:21:34 ◼   ► for your business anymore.

00:21:35 ◼   ► It's very possible there will come a time where

00:21:38 ◼   ► a major retailer, or any size retailer,

00:21:42 ◼   ► where so few people are buying stuff on web pages

00:21:46 ◼   ► versus so many buying stuff in apps

00:21:48 ◼   ► that when they have to decide how to allocate

00:21:50 ◼   ► their resources and whether to have only an app

00:21:53 ◼   ► or only a website or both,

00:21:56 ◼   ► there can come a time if this trend continues

00:21:59 ◼   ► where the website is just not worth it

00:22:01 ◼   ► to build and maintain for them.

00:22:03 ◼   ► - So you're saying that their website

00:22:05 ◼   ► is like the Yellow Pages.

00:22:06 ◼   ► - I'm saying we're heading in a direction

00:22:08 ◼   ► where websites might become as relevant

00:22:11 ◼   ► as the Yellow Pages are today.

00:22:13 ◼   ► And I don't know that we'll ever get there,

00:22:14 ◼   ► but that is the direction I think that we are heading in.

00:22:17 ◼   ► - I don't think that answers the search question, though.

00:22:19 ◼   ► When you're, I mean, just think of like,

00:22:21 ◼   ► what are the good restaurants in this area, right?

00:22:24 ◼   ► Like, when you don't already know

00:22:25 ◼   ► where you're going to end up,

00:22:27 ◼   ► because that's the whole thing.

00:22:28 ◼   ► With a bunch of apps, you are picking a store,

00:22:30 ◼   ► but what if you have no idea where you're gonna end up,

00:22:32 ◼   ► or you just wanna know, hey, what's around here,

00:22:34 ◼   ► or what's out there that we can try?

00:22:35 ◼   ► You need some way to find what's out there,

00:22:39 ◼   ► and you're not gonna do it.

00:22:40 ◼   ► You're certainly not gonna do it by searching the App Store.

00:22:42 ◼   ► You're not gonna go to the App Store

00:22:43 ◼   ► and type restaurant to find, I mean, just think of it.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Think about it, if restaurants had no websites,

00:22:49 ◼   ► they only had apps, and even in your own area

00:22:51 ◼   ► where you live, you just wanna know,

00:22:52 ◼   ► hey, have any new restaurants opened in this area?

00:22:54 ◼   ► You gonna go to the App Store and try to find

00:22:56 ◼   ► a restaurant app for a restaurant near you?

00:22:58 ◼   ► Like the App Store can't even let you find

00:23:00 ◼   ► Angry Birds reliably.

00:23:01 ◼   ► - Well, no, you might search the App Store for restaurants

00:23:04 ◼   ► and find something like Yelp,

00:23:06 ◼   ► if you didn't already know about it,

00:23:07 ◼   ► which is probably unlikely.

00:23:10 ◼   ► The App Store is different.

00:23:12 ◼   ► The app paradigm of using apps to interact

00:23:14 ◼   ► with computing things and buy things,

00:23:16 ◼   ► just like when you move to the web,

00:23:17 ◼   ► things were different in a lot of ways.

00:23:19 ◼   ► When, in this move to apps,

00:23:21 ◼   ► things aren't all gonna work the same way,

00:23:23 ◼   ► just certain things will take their place.

00:23:25 ◼   ► So in your case, you're saying,

00:23:27 ◼   ► how do you, are you gonna search for restaurants

00:23:29 ◼   ► in the App Store?

00:23:30 ◼   ► No, you're gonna open up the Yelp app

00:23:31 ◼   ► and search for restaurants there.

00:23:32 ◼   ► Like there's gonna be all these silos.

00:23:34 ◼   ► If you wanna buy an object that's sold in stores usually,

00:23:37 ◼   ► you're gonna go to Amazon or whatever.

00:23:38 ◼   ► If you want to find restaurants,

00:23:40 ◼   ► you're gonna go to Yelp and something like that.

00:23:42 ◼   ► If you want a taxi, you're gonna open your taxi app,

00:23:44 ◼   ► whichever one that might be that you choose in your area.

00:23:47 ◼   ► That is the interaction paradigm on mobile.

00:23:51 ◼   ► You don't start at a universal search box

00:23:54 ◼   ► and get shown tons of spam.

00:23:57 ◼   ► - Most of these apps you're talking about

00:23:58 ◼   ► are just web views inside a container anyway.

00:24:00 ◼   ► - Doesn't matter.

00:24:02 ◼   ► - But what I'm saying is it's making it worse

00:24:04 ◼   ► because it's good for the people

00:24:07 ◼   ► who are selling these things

00:24:08 ◼   ► because they're like, oh, people will be locked in

00:24:09 ◼   ► because they'll have their app on our phone

00:24:11 ◼   ► and they'll just use their app.

00:24:12 ◼   ► But it's bad for us because people are taking

00:24:14 ◼   ► what used to be sort of on a more level playing field

00:24:18 ◼   ► and confining it inside these little containers

00:24:21 ◼   ► and having their own icons on our home screens

00:24:22 ◼   ► and it just clutters everything up

00:24:23 ◼   ► so it makes everything worse and one place's app

00:24:27 ◼   ► might not be as good as another place's app

00:24:28 ◼   ► and so on and so forth just for the container stuff

00:24:30 ◼   ► let alone what's inside the page.

00:24:31 ◼   ► It's just-- - Well, the same applies

00:24:32 ◼   ► to websites there.

00:24:33 ◼   ► I mean, it is going to be different.

00:24:35 ◼   ► We know that.

00:24:36 ◼   ► It isn't necessarily worse in every way.

00:24:38 ◼   ► It's better in some ways.

00:24:40 ◼   ► It's just, it's different.

00:24:41 ◼   ► - It's better for the vendors.

00:24:43 ◼   ► How is it better for us?

00:24:45 ◼   ► - Things load fast, I don't know.

00:24:48 ◼   ► - No, they don't.

00:24:49 ◼   ► It's just a web view inside an app.

00:24:50 ◼   ► You gotta work with the app to launch the thing.

00:24:51 ◼   ► I think it's just not better for us.

00:24:53 ◼   ► Unless, I mean, unless it's artificially done.

00:24:56 ◼   ► Like, it's better for us in the App Store

00:24:57 ◼   ► because Apple's web version of the App Store is just so bad.

00:25:00 ◼   ► That's one way they can make it better

00:25:02 ◼   ► is everyone make your websites way, way worse

00:25:04 ◼   ► until the app version of it wins because the websites are basically useless.

00:25:08 ◼   ► Oh, they're doing a great job of that already. Websites today are terrible.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Well, the Amazon versus the Apple one, they're not doing it. I've never used a

00:25:14 ◼   ► Flipkart thing, so I can't say. I mean, let's think of some... What's one thing that you

00:25:17 ◼   ► routinely buy through an app that you don't buy through a website? I guess

00:25:20 ◼   ► Instagram, I mean, it's not buying a thing, but they have a website too, but it sucks.

00:25:25 ◼   ► Uber, I guess, do they even have a website? Probably not. That's app only, right?

00:25:28 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:25:29 ◼   ► What else can you think of that is a better experience of buying through an app

00:25:33 ◼   ► than through the equivalent website.

00:25:36 ◼   ► - The Apple Store app is pretty good.

00:25:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would say that I don't necessarily think

00:25:41 ◼   ► it's better, 'cause you can't do everything.

00:25:45 ◼   ► You know, Apple's website is functional,

00:25:48 ◼   ► but mediocre in a lot of ways,

00:25:51 ◼   ► for the end of the store part.

00:25:52 ◼   ► It works, you know, most of the time.

00:25:54 ◼   ► It doesn't usually show errors or anything,

00:25:55 ◼   ► but the app is good enough, and the app actually is faster

00:26:00 ◼   ► because it isn't loading all the Chrome and Stylus sheets.

00:26:03 ◼   ► It seems to access some kind of separate API

00:26:05 ◼   ► that doesn't go down as much

00:26:07 ◼   ► during the major product launches.

00:26:09 ◼   ► And it has Touch ID Apple Pay for checking out,

00:26:12 ◼   ► which is awesome.

00:26:13 ◼   ► - It has more than that though, right?

00:26:14 ◼   ► Because it has Genius Reservations,

00:26:16 ◼   ► if not creation of, then check in for.

00:26:21 ◼   ► It has EasySteal or whatever it's called

00:26:23 ◼   ► where you scan the barcode and then pay through the app

00:26:26 ◼   ► and walk out of the store.

00:26:28 ◼   ► And if you're like me, you're holding your iPhone up

00:26:30 ◼   ► to anyone who is looking anywhere near your direction

00:26:32 ◼   ► to show that you've actually paid for this thing,

00:26:34 ◼   ► that it looks like you're stealing.

00:26:36 ◼   ► It has some functionality,

00:26:38 ◼   ► and this comes back to what Jon was saying earlier,

00:26:40 ◼   ► it has functionality that you can't get through the website,

00:26:42 ◼   ► and that's, I think, in large part,

00:26:44 ◼   ► why I like the Apple Store app so much.

00:26:47 ◼   ► - Oh, you know what else also, Jon?

00:26:49 ◼   ► I can buy things on the Amazon app

00:26:50 ◼   ► without ever entering a password,

00:26:51 ◼   ► because I entered it once and said save it,

00:26:53 ◼   ► and on the web, that doesn't quite work.

00:26:54 ◼   ► On the web, you always have to go through the login form

00:26:56 ◼   ► and you're buying something.

00:26:58 ◼   ► And I know there's ways that they can do it without that,

00:27:00 ◼   ► but the fact is they don't.

00:27:01 ◼   ► So, you know, that's another thing, it's faster.

00:27:04 ◼   ► If you know what you're looking for,

00:27:06 ◼   ► an app shopping experience can be a lot faster.

00:27:09 ◼   ► You know, if you can go into it, if it has decent search

00:27:12 ◼   ► and you can jump right there and hit the checkout,

00:27:13 ◼   ► like, and if there's any steps they can skip

00:27:16 ◼   ► by the security of the phone, like touch ID for Apple Pay

00:27:18 ◼   ► or skipping passwords, it can be faster.

00:27:21 ◼   ► In many cases, it is faster.

00:27:22 ◼   ► What you're describing, Jon, about wanting to open up

00:27:25 ◼   ► a bunch of tabs and do research side by side,

00:27:27 ◼   ► that is worse, you're right.

00:27:28 ◼   ► The web is probably always gonna be

00:27:29 ◼   ► the better platform for that.

00:27:30 ◼   ► But I just mean like structurally, is it worse to have a bunch of apps, like that they're

00:27:35 ◼   ► pinning you down in artificial ways, rather than you thinking that it's a greenfield and

00:27:41 ◼   ► you have access to all the world's vendors.

00:27:43 ◼   ► You are necessarily limited to the icons that you have put on your phone, and there's some

00:27:47 ◼   ► inertia to dislodging those icons or adding a new one or remembering which app or grouping

00:27:53 ◼   ► them together.

00:27:54 ◼   ► Like I said, how many different apps are you going to have to do the same job as Uber does?

00:27:57 ◼   ► Whereas if Uber was not an app-native platform, I feel like it is constraining in a way that

00:28:03 ◼   ► benefits the vendors and doesn't benefit consumers for mostly no good reason.

00:28:08 ◼   ► There's a few reasons, like you said, the biometrics things or whatever, but again,

00:28:11 ◼   ► Amazon has the one-click stuff and really that's not that big of a hurdle.

00:28:18 ◼   ► Checking out at Amazon, I feel like is below the threshold where Touch ID, it's cool for

00:28:23 ◼   ► us to be able to do it, but most people, they just click, click, click and go through.

00:28:27 ◼   ► I know a lot of people like to have, are afraid to turn on one click because it's too fast.

00:28:33 ◼   ► That was already too fast and it's not even biometric.

00:28:36 ◼   ► And I think both of you were startled by how easy it was to drop however many hundred dollars

00:28:40 ◼   ► on an Apple Watch just by going tap, tap, done.

00:28:44 ◼   ► So good for vendors, maybe not good.

00:28:46 ◼   ► But anyway, I was thinking about which companies do have better apps than websites.

00:28:52 ◼   ► And so it's companies that started sort of the app world like Uber or Instagram.

00:28:57 ◼   ► They were always app first, their websites, if they existed at all, are afterthoughts.

00:29:00 ◼   ► So their apps are better, right?

00:29:02 ◼   ► It's companies that have always been terrible at the web, like Apple.

00:29:05 ◼   ► I guess that's the explanation.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Why are their apps better than their web versions?

00:29:08 ◼   ► Because they've never really been good at web stuff, and so their apps win.

00:29:13 ◼   ► And then the other companies that either started on the web, like Amazon, or even things like

00:29:17 ◼   ► airlines.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Like, airlines have apps, but their web experiences usually have more features or more ways to

00:29:23 ◼   ► like, you know, research which seats you can do and get a better diagram.

00:29:26 ◼   ► No, if you didn't see this you can enter your number there and do this thing and the app doesn't show you that path

00:29:29 ◼   ► Right things you can only do from the website that you can't do from the app airlines. Everything sucks

00:29:33 ◼   ► Yeah, they're bad at everything but still their apps are more feature poor than their website

00:29:39 ◼   ► It's like oh when you're making your reservations make sure you either go through the website because on the app

00:29:43 ◼   ► You don't get this option match option and you want to do this one because you can get more legroom for less cost or whatever

00:29:48 ◼   ► like

00:29:49 ◼   ► It's a weird split and I don't know especially for the big ones

00:29:53 ◼   ► like, you know, Amazon, eBay, things that have some critical mass that's difficult to overcome,

00:29:58 ◼   ► are they perpetually going to have worse apps than their websites? Will they figure it out

00:30:03 ◼   ► and reverse it? Or is it only the new companies like, you know, I'm not gonna think besides Uber

00:30:09 ◼   ► and Instagram, some other like companies that came of age in the app era, where they never really

00:30:13 ◼   ► considered websites and their whole product was always an app? All right, we should plug a new

00:30:21 ◼   ► website that has come out since I believe the last time we recorded.

00:30:26 ◼   ► This is Cosmodrome by Brianna Wu.

00:30:28 ◼   ► Jon, do you want to tell us a little about this?

00:30:30 ◼   ► Jon Streeter Yeah, this is a link list style site, as she

00:30:34 ◼   ► calls it, sort of modeled on Daring Fireball, only the—it's just going to be a bunch

00:30:38 ◼   ► of links, not a bunch of original writing there for the most part.

00:30:40 ◼   ► And so what's the big deal about that?

00:30:42 ◼   ► There's a million sites that have a bunch of technology links and stuff.

00:30:45 ◼   ► This one is like any site that has a single person behind it.

00:30:48 ◼   ► The idea is the voice of the person comes through.

00:30:50 ◼   ► And this is Brianna's voice, and she's intentionally trying to put in links that have the best content

00:30:55 ◼   ► from tech and gaming, because she obviously runs a gaming company, and she's also into

00:30:59 ◼   ► tech so it's not just going to be like, you know, regular tech industry stuff but mixed

00:31:04 ◼   ► in with game industry stuff.

00:31:05 ◼   ► And she's trying to amplify voices of women that she respects and women in the industry.

00:31:10 ◼   ► So she's got an introductory post explaining what Kazmaadrome was about.

00:31:13 ◼   ► You can see it in the show notes.

00:31:15 ◼   ► I find myself, and this is another example of apps versus the web I suppose, when I saw

00:31:20 ◼   ► that this link thing was there, I'm like, I'm never going to see anything on that site

00:31:26 ◼   ► unless it has a Twitter account.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Because that's how I see all of my links.

00:31:29 ◼   ► I follow the Twitter accounts that belong to like Marco.org and Daring Fireball and

00:31:32 ◼   ► Casey's site.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Wait, you're one of those?

00:31:34 ◼   ► Yes, I don't like, RSS, Twitter has just eaten RSS in my life.

00:31:38 ◼   ► I subscribe to the Twitter accounts of all these sites.

00:31:42 ◼   ► And I still have an RSS reader, I still use Reader with two Es on the iPad to read news,

00:31:49 ◼   ► but it's like a different set of things.

00:31:50 ◼   ► I have the things I use RSS feeds for, and I have the things that get to be in my Twitter

00:31:54 ◼   ► feed.

00:31:55 ◼   ► And obviously the Twitter feeds, it's a smaller number of sites, just the important ones.

00:31:59 ◼   ► But yeah, I am now basically in the Twitter app.

00:32:02 ◼   ► How do I see that when you posted something that we're going to talk about later in the

00:32:05 ◼   ► show?

00:32:06 ◼   ► How did I see that?

00:32:07 ◼   ► I see it on Twitter.

00:32:08 ◼   ► How did I read it?

00:32:09 ◼   ► By following on Twitter.

00:32:10 ◼   ► I would have insta-papered it from Twitter and

00:32:13 ◼   ► I don't think I ever go to your site to see if there's anything new on your site

00:32:17 ◼   ► And I don't think your site is in my RSS feeds anymore because it's the type of site that as soon as something is published

00:32:23 ◼   ► I want to know about it immediately and I do because it's on Twitter and I keep up with my Twitter. So anyway

00:32:27 ◼   ► Cosmodrome blog is a Twitter handle. We will put a link to the introductory post in the show notes. Check it out

00:32:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I've been following it since she tweeted it. It's very good

00:32:36 ◼   ► Yeah, you know I'm still stuck on John saying that you are one of those people that gets all your links from Twitter

00:32:41 ◼   ► Not all my links

00:32:42 ◼   ► But the ones that like if I want to know as soon as something is posted or you know or like

00:32:46 ◼   ► Especially with a link list thing you're not gonna read everything you say is am I interested in following that link or not?

00:32:51 ◼   ► I mean

00:32:51 ◼   ► It's not it's not the words of somebody writing something down a lot of blogs are a mix like Margo does some link posts and he

00:32:56 ◼   ► Does some post on his own right so there's a handful of things that I subscribe to in that way on Twitter

00:33:00 ◼   ► and I will know as soon as someone post something on those things because I

00:33:04 ◼   ► I keep up with Twitter, right?

00:33:08 ◼   ► But RSS is for "Let me see the last whatever umpteen news stories from Ars Technica."

00:33:15 ◼   ► RSS, I don't subscribe to the giant Ars Technica Twitter, I don't even know if they have one.

00:33:20 ◼   ► If there was a Twitter feed that showed everything that RSS posted, there's no way I would subscribe

00:33:23 ◼   ► to that.

00:33:24 ◼   ► It would have filled my feed, I would never look at anything.

00:33:25 ◼   ► I use my RSS reader for that, but then you can just go boop, boop, boop, and look at all

00:33:28 ◼   ► of them at the same time and view them more quickly and so on and so forth.

00:33:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, the only such Twitter account that I follow,

00:33:36 ◼   ► like I don't follow Marco or org on Twitter,

00:33:39 ◼   ► it's in my RSS feeder.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I don't follow Daring Fireball on Twitter,

00:33:42 ◼   ► it's in my RSS reader.

00:33:44 ◼   ► But I follow my own to make sure things get tweeted

00:33:46 ◼   ► and that's it.

00:33:47 ◼   ► - You should follow Hypercritical because once a year,

00:33:49 ◼   ► maybe, when something posts,

00:33:50 ◼   ► you wanna know about it right away.

00:33:51 ◼   ► - You know what's really great to follow

00:33:53 ◼   ► a bunch of sites like that?

00:33:55 ◼   ► RSS readers.

00:33:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, agreed.

00:33:57 ◼   ► - No, but you'll never notice it in the RSS reader.

00:33:59 ◼   ► you'll never even look at that section of the RSS reader.

00:34:02 ◼   ► - Okay, here's your problem right here.

00:34:05 ◼   ► RSS readers, if you have so many subscriptions

00:34:09 ◼   ► that you are missing items constantly

00:34:11 ◼   ► because they're buried in a different section,

00:34:14 ◼   ► you have too many subscriptions.

00:34:15 ◼   ► - You have a lot of subscriptions.

00:34:18 ◼   ► I do, I don't keep, I used to actually keep up with RSS,

00:34:21 ◼   ► but that was like years ago, right?

00:34:23 ◼   ► I wasn't a completionist,

00:34:24 ◼   ► but I was a Marcus Red completionist

00:34:26 ◼   ► in the glory days of the newswire.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I had tons of feeds and at the very least every day

00:34:32 ◼   ► I would decide that I'm not going to read something.

00:34:35 ◼   ► Like it was, I would go through everything that's there

00:34:37 ◼   ► and either say, I am going to read that

00:34:39 ◼   ► or I'm not going to read that.

00:34:40 ◼   ► And I would read the things that I'm going to read

00:34:41 ◼   ► and I would, you know, most of the stuff

00:34:42 ◼   ► you're not reading, right?

00:34:43 ◼   ► But that passed, I don't know why that passed.

00:34:45 ◼   ► That passed just, I guess,

00:34:46 ◼   ► because the volume just increased.

00:34:48 ◼   ► Like I didn't even follow that many more feeds,

00:34:50 ◼   ► but the volume of all the feeds increased.

00:34:51 ◼   ► Like think of what the Ars Technica RSS feed was

00:34:54 ◼   ► when I first followed it.

00:34:55 ◼   ► It was like a couple of posts a day.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Now it's like a fire hose and you just multiply that

00:34:59 ◼   ► for every site that I followed.

00:35:01 ◼   ► - Right, so unsubscribe because you're not really

00:35:02 ◼   ► reading them all.

00:35:03 ◼   ► - Well, I'm not a completionist anymore, I don't care.

00:35:05 ◼   ► Like I go to it when I go there and you know,

00:35:08 ◼   ► I just mark huge spots as read because it's like

00:35:12 ◼   ► all out of date info but I find the few, yeah,

00:35:14 ◼   ► I still subscribe to a lot of things but most of the things

00:35:17 ◼   ► I actually care about are on Twitter and that's only

00:35:20 ◼   ► maybe five, six sites.

00:35:22 ◼   ► - See, this is why we can't get through follow up

00:35:25 ◼   ► or topics in a reasonable amount of time

00:35:27 ◼   ► because everything that we do,

00:35:29 ◼   ► we discover something about each other

00:35:31 ◼   ► that is worth discussing,

00:35:33 ◼   ► and we have to nitpick it to death.

00:35:35 ◼   ► - Pretty much.

00:35:35 ◼   ► - Follow-up already ended once we ended the Cosmodrome thing

00:35:40 ◼   ► and then we were just talking about other stuff.

00:35:42 ◼   ► - I love doing this show with you guys.

00:35:44 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:35:45 ◼   ► All right, our first sponsor, it's a new sponsor this week,

00:35:48 ◼   ► it is Bushel, B-U-S-H-E-L, bushel.com/atp.

00:35:53 ◼   ► So Bushel, this is really interesting.

00:35:56 ◼   ► You know how iOS devices, if you have a real job

00:35:59 ◼   ► and you have a company, there's all these configuration

00:36:01 ◼   ► options you can do to kind of manage a fleet

00:36:04 ◼   ► of iOS devices, Macs, you can use configuration profiles

00:36:07 ◼   ► and everything, doing this though, it is not an easy thing

00:36:11 ◼   ► to set up or manage.

00:36:12 ◼   ► Bushell is a hosted cloud service that basically does

00:36:16 ◼   ► that management for you in a really, really nice interface.

00:36:19 ◼   ► So here's what it is.

00:36:20 ◼   ► So it is a mobile device management MDM system,

00:36:25 ◼   ► cloud-based, awesome web interface, very simple to use,

00:36:28 ◼   ► and it lets anyone easily manage Apple devices

00:36:31 ◼   ► in a workplace.

00:36:32 ◼   ► This includes iOS devices, iPhones, iPads,

00:36:34 ◼   ► iPod touches, John, and even Macs.

00:36:37 ◼   ► I didn't even know Macs could do this stuff, but they can.

00:36:40 ◼   ► So, Bushell lets you easily set up and protect Apple devices

00:36:43 ◼   ► that you distribute to your team,

00:36:44 ◼   ► or even devices your team already has.

00:36:47 ◼   ► With Bushell managing your workplace's devices,

00:36:49 ◼   ► you can easily provide and manage access

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00:36:53 ◼   ► This is pretty cool.

00:36:54 ◼   ► You can send, like at the profile,

00:36:56 ◼   ► send the configuration out to these devices,

00:36:59 ◼   ► and the employees don't need to manually configure

00:37:01 ◼   ► all the stuff, all the server settings and everything

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00:37:05 ◼   ► or you can make sure they have SSL enabled,

00:37:07 ◼   ► all this cool stuff.

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00:37:12 ◼   ► you can install them to every device all at once.

00:37:16 ◼   ► You can also enable settings that will separate

00:37:19 ◼   ► and protect your team's personal data and personal apps

00:37:22 ◼   ► from their work data from your company.

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00:37:37 ◼   ► They have a device inventory section.

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00:37:45 ◼   ► You can even configure your company-owned devices

00:37:47 ◼   ► through Bushell without having to physically

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00:37:50 ◼   ► basically get a box, give it to somebody shrink wrapped,

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00:38:11 ◼   ► Remember, this is both iOS devices and Macs,

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00:38:55 ◼   ► There's so many good uses for this.

00:38:57 ◼   ► So thanks a lot, Bushell, bushell.com/atp.

00:39:00 ◼   ► - All right, so in the last, what, 24 hours,

00:39:04 ◼   ► we have our first Apple Watch OS update.

00:39:08 ◼   ► So we are now on Apple Watch 1.0.1.

00:39:12 ◼   ► - I believe it's pronounced watch us.

00:39:14 ◼   ► - Watch us, 1.0.1.

00:39:17 ◼   ► I've installed it, Marco, I presume you've installed it as well?

00:39:20 ◼   ► I have.

00:39:21 ◼   ► Nothing happened.

00:39:22 ◼   ► It was glorious.

00:39:23 ◼   ► I'm disappointed they didn't call it a firmware update.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Remember those days?

00:39:26 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:27 ◼   ► The iPhone would get a firmware update.

00:39:30 ◼   ► It was an OS update in all the same ways that an OS ever was, but they hadn't yet decided

00:39:34 ◼   ► to call it an OS because, hey, it couldn't even run apps, right?

00:39:36 ◼   ► It was a firmware update.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Well, it's like a watch firmware.

00:39:38 ◼   ► I guess the watch can run apps, but yeah.

00:39:40 ◼   ► Well, in any case, I just wanted to point out a couple of initial impressions I had.

00:39:45 ◼   ► I've talked to a handful of people,

00:39:47 ◼   ► and a lot of us agreed that third-party apps and glances,

00:39:52 ◼   ► especially, just feel quicker.

00:39:55 ◼   ► I have no concrete evidence of this.

00:39:57 ◼   ► I have no quantitative evidence of this,

00:40:00 ◼   ► but it just feels quicker to me.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Marco, would you say that's the case?

00:40:02 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:40:03 ◼   ► I mean, it was hard to tell initially,

00:40:05 ◼   ► because in the previous 1.0 version,

00:40:09 ◼   ► after a clean reboot, things would be faster

00:40:11 ◼   ► and more responsive for a while.

00:40:13 ◼   ► So, you know, after you install the update,

00:40:15 ◼   ► you have a clean reboot, so it would feel fast immediately.

00:40:18 ◼   ► So far though, in the what, day and a half

00:40:20 ◼   ► that we've had it so far,

00:40:22 ◼   ► I have not had an app lock up permanently forever.

00:40:25 ◼   ► I have not seen an infinite spinner.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And that is, part of that is just 'cause I've used,

00:40:30 ◼   ► I'm using very few apps now,

00:40:31 ◼   ► but it does seem like they have improved it.

00:40:34 ◼   ► So I give this a thumbs up.

00:40:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

00:40:38 ◼   ► The only thing that I'm a little shady on

00:40:40 ◼   ► is I went for a walk earlier tonight,

00:40:43 ◼   ► And what I did was I went to the exercise app,

00:40:47 ◼   ► I said I'm going for an outdoor walk,

00:40:49 ◼   ► and I started walking.

00:40:51 ◼   ► And by no means am I doing a super mega power walk

00:40:56 ◼   ► or anything like that, but we were,

00:40:57 ◼   ► Aaron and Declan and I were walking reasonably briskly.

00:41:01 ◼   ► And when I got back from this walk

00:41:04 ◼   ► that was like two and a half miles or something like that

00:41:06 ◼   ► and lasted roughly 15 minutes,

00:41:09 ◼   ► I got back and I was credited

00:41:11 ◼   ► with something like 15 minutes of walking.

00:41:14 ◼   ► And in 1.0.0, I don't remember that having

00:41:17 ◼   ► ever been the case, that if I walked for 50 minutes,

00:41:20 ◼   ► I would get credit for 15 minutes of exercise.

00:41:22 ◼   ► - Well, was that credit for 15 minutes

00:41:24 ◼   ► of elevated heart rate?

00:41:26 ◼   ► - Well, and that's exactly what I was going to say,

00:41:28 ◼   ► is this all could be that I was cheating the system

00:41:32 ◼   ► in 1.0.0, and I shouldn't have been getting credit

00:41:35 ◼   ► because I wasn't getting my heart pumping quick enough

00:41:39 ◼   ► to earn that credit.

00:41:40 ◼   ► And now in 1.0.1, maybe the heart rate detection is more frequent or maybe it's just better.

00:41:47 ◼   ► In one way or another, maybe I just don't deserve credit for more than 15 minutes out

00:41:52 ◼   ► of 50.

00:41:53 ◼   ► But it is different than 1.0.0.

00:41:55 ◼   ► And last night, right after I had done my upgrade, I went for a walk.

00:42:00 ◼   ► And I could swear that for a little while during that walk, my heart rate read 70.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And I am out of shape enough that I can assure you, and I was walking quickly enough, that

00:42:09 ◼   ► I assure you my heart rate was probably not 70. So this is all very very

00:42:15 ◼   ► anecdotal and it very well could be user ineptitude on my part since I wasn't

00:42:20 ◼   ► walking quickly enough but I don't know it just seems like that got that the

00:42:25 ◼   ► heart rate related things got a little bit worse but what I'd like to do is

00:42:31 ◼   ► maybe tomorrow I'll really try to amp up the speed and see if that makes a

00:42:34 ◼   ► difference. Yeah give it a shot also try try giving a good wipe off to the disk

00:42:39 ◼   ► on the back of the watch.

00:42:40 ◼   ► I had an issue today where on my morning walk this morning,

00:42:45 ◼   ► the watch kept locking as if I had taken it off.

00:42:49 ◼   ► - Oh, that's interesting.

00:42:50 ◼   ► - And so I assumed, oh, the sensor must be cloudy

00:42:52 ◼   ► or whatever, so I wiped it off

00:42:53 ◼   ► and I haven't seen the problem again.

00:42:54 ◼   ► It did it a few times in the same walk

00:42:57 ◼   ► and the Workout app kept crashing and yeah, it was not good.

00:43:00 ◼   ► But then I took it off later, wiped it off

00:43:01 ◼   ► and I haven't seen it since.

00:43:02 ◼   ► So it could just be that, who knows?

00:43:04 ◼   ► - Also shave your arm hair.

00:43:06 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:43:06 ◼   ► - Well, I'm not a gorilla like you are, Jon,

00:43:09 ◼   ► But I will keep that in mind.

00:43:10 ◼   ► So John, how are you enjoying watchOS 1.0.1?

00:43:13 ◼   ► Oh, it's great.

00:43:14 ◼   ► I love seeing screenshots of people updating their OS on one device by running an update

00:43:18 ◼   ► on another device and then making sure the watch is in the charger when they do it.

00:43:21 ◼   ► It's very exciting.

00:43:22 ◼   ► I wonder why, like, they were always paranoid about it.

00:43:24 ◼   ► Like, you know, the iPad and iPhone updates used to be like, "Well, you have to have at

00:43:29 ◼   ► least 50% battery power, and if you don't, you have to be connected to power before we'll

00:43:32 ◼   ► run the updater and stuff on the watch."

00:43:34 ◼   ► It's like even more.

00:43:35 ◼   ► like no just unconditional it seemed like from what I read,

00:43:38 ◼   ► connected to the charger period.

00:43:40 ◼   ► - Well I think the reason why, first of all,

00:43:42 ◼   ► keep in mind like if a software update on the watch

00:43:45 ◼   ► goes bad, the recovery options you have are,

00:43:49 ◼   ► as far as we know, pretty limited.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Because there is no, you can't just plug it into iTunes

00:43:53 ◼   ► and hold down two buttons and have it go in DFU mode.

00:43:56 ◼   ► Like we don't know if there's anything

00:43:59 ◼   ► that a home user can do.

00:44:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's probably gotta be like a wireless like

00:44:03 ◼   ► put it into recovery mode where it's just looking

00:44:05 ◼   ► for a wireless signal that will signal to it,

00:44:07 ◼   ► okay, I'm about to take you over

00:44:09 ◼   ► and shove a whole new image down your throat?

00:44:11 ◼   ► - Probably, yeah.

00:44:12 ◼   ► And the other thing is, the update,

00:44:15 ◼   ► for me it took a pretty long time.

00:44:16 ◼   ► I would say it probably took 20 minutes.

00:44:18 ◼   ► And during that time, the screen was on the entire time,

00:44:21 ◼   ► showing the progress.

00:44:22 ◼   ► So I think that is probably why they require the power.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Because if you didn't have it powered,

00:44:27 ◼   ► you would slaughter the battery life just doing the update.

00:44:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, not just for the screen,

00:44:31 ◼   ► because it's doing like IO on its little solid state storage

00:44:36 ◼   ► for the whole time, that's all it's doing.

00:44:37 ◼   ► And over the normal course of events,

00:44:39 ◼   ► the watch is not constantly reading or writing

00:44:41 ◼   ► from its disk.

00:44:42 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:44:43 ◼   ► - All right, we should probably plug something else

00:44:48 ◼   ► that's going on specifically during WWDC week.

00:44:52 ◼   ► So whether or not you happen to be going to San Francisco,

00:44:56 ◼   ► AppCamp for Girls is doing a fundraising happy hour

00:45:00 ◼   ► that is being thrown by WWDC girls.

00:45:04 ◼   ► And that's going on the Wednesday night of WWDC week.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Now, if you're not going to San Francisco that week,

00:45:11 ◼   ► that doesn't mean you can't help out.

00:45:13 ◼   ► And it doesn't mean you can't donate to AppCamp for Girls,

00:45:15 ◼   ► which is a really great organization that seeks to improve

00:45:19 ◼   ► the interest of, increase the interest of young girls

00:45:25 ◼   ► and young women in app development and programming

00:45:29 ◼   ► things of that nature. And so ATP is going to be sponsoring the happy hour. I know I

00:45:36 ◼   ► will at the very least be going there for a little while, if not the entire time. Marco,

00:45:40 ◼   ► I think you are also going Is that true? That's true. Alright, so we will be there for at

00:45:44 ◼   ► least a little while. So if you wanted an excuse to say hi to us, then I would certainly

00:45:49 ◼   ► do so in all likelihood, we'll probably be there the whole time. I just I'm afraid to

00:45:52 ◼   ► guarantee that because WWDC week gets a little crazy. But anyway, but ATP is sponsoring,

00:45:57 ◼   ► We'd love it if you could show up.

00:45:59 ◼   ► Tickets are what, like a $20 suggested donation?

00:46:02 ◼   ► - Yep, and if you can't make it,

00:46:04 ◼   ► you can donate on the same form.

00:46:06 ◼   ► You can just say, all right, you know what,

00:46:07 ◼   ► I can't make it, but here's 10 bucks or whatever.

00:46:09 ◼   ► Please do that if you can't make it.

00:46:10 ◼   ► This is really a fantastic organization

00:46:13 ◼   ► doing fantastic work, and we couldn't possibly

00:46:18 ◼   ► recommend strongly enough that, please support it.

00:46:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I definitely wrote in a donation

00:46:24 ◼   ► was considerably more than $20 for my ticket. I encourage you if you happen to be going and you

00:46:30 ◼   ► have the means to do so, I encourage you to do the same thing. And just like Marco said, whether or

00:46:34 ◼   ► not you're going to be there, please feel free to donate to AppCamp for Girls. It's a really, really

00:46:38 ◼   ► great organization. And like I said, at the very least, Marco and I will be there to say hi to

00:46:44 ◼   ► everyone and shake a few hands and take selfies if that's your shtick, etc, etc. So please check it

00:46:50 ◼   ► Check it out, we'll put a link in the show notes.

00:46:52 ◼   ► That's AppCamp for Girls, the Wednesday night of WWDC Week.

00:46:55 ◼   ► - And it's evening, it's like 5.30 p.m.

00:46:58 ◼   ► So it doesn't take up your whole night.

00:46:59 ◼   ► It's a happy hour thing, so nothing else is going on

00:47:02 ◼   ► during happy hour, so if you're there,

00:47:04 ◼   ► you can totally make it.

00:47:05 ◼   ► - Yep, exactly.

00:47:06 ◼   ► - Before we leave the topic of WWDC Week,

00:47:09 ◼   ► I also wanna mention the Release Notes podcast

00:47:12 ◼   ► from our friends, Charles Perry and Joe Chaplinsky,

00:47:15 ◼   ► ReleaseNotes.tv.

00:47:16 ◼   ► They did a great episode this week.

00:47:18 ◼   ► episode 105 on WWDC tips and kind of an overview of what's going on that week, what events,

00:47:27 ◼   ► what parties, what other conferences are going on. Our friend Jesse Char is putting on a

00:47:32 ◼   ► conference called Layers which looks fantastic. There's so many good big names that are going

00:47:37 ◼   ► to be speaking there. I actually bought a ticket to that. I'm going to be basically

00:47:40 ◼   ► balancing both, attending both WWDC and that. It looks amazing. That's bringyourlayers.com

00:47:46 ◼   ► I think, and yeah, the layers conference looks great.

00:47:50 ◼   ► There's also AltConf, which also has an amazing speaker line.

00:47:53 ◼   ► Now, there is so much going on that week

00:47:56 ◼   ► that I almost feel like if you don't have a ticket,

00:47:59 ◼   ► you have more options.

00:48:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's really weird that way.

00:48:02 ◼   ► - There's so much going on,

00:48:03 ◼   ► so definitely check out those conferences.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Check out the Release Notes podcast.

00:48:07 ◼   ► They did a much better job than we will

00:48:08 ◼   ► of going over all the options that you have.

00:48:12 ◼   ► - It's bad enough that WWDC is multitrack,

00:48:14 ◼   ► and you can't actually be like, some sessions now,

00:48:17 ◼   ► the entirety of that week is multi-conference, multi-track.

00:48:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:48:21 ◼   ► And you are doing it, you Marco,

00:48:23 ◼   ► have a ticket to both Layers and WWDC

00:48:26 ◼   ► and you can't be in both places at once,

00:48:27 ◼   ► so on certain days, you'll be deciding,

00:48:30 ◼   ► I'm gonna be Layers in the morning

00:48:31 ◼   ► and here in the afternoon or whatever.

00:48:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:48:34 ◼   ► - And that's before even considering multiple tracks.

00:48:35 ◼   ► Is Layers multi-track or single?

00:48:37 ◼   ► - I believe it's single.

00:48:38 ◼   ► - All right, so it's not single at least,

00:48:39 ◼   ► but then WWDC was multi, anyway,

00:48:41 ◼   ► too much stuff jammed into one week.

00:48:43 ◼   ► But this is a great problem to have.

00:48:44 ◼   ► I mean, it's much better than, you know,

00:48:47 ◼   ► what would have happened if Marco and I

00:48:48 ◼   ► didn't get tickets to WWDC

00:48:50 ◼   ► and we wanted to go to San Francisco anyway.

00:48:52 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure we would have found something useful to do

00:48:55 ◼   ► during the daytime when we weren't at the conference,

00:48:59 ◼   ► but now we have all sorts of options that were,

00:49:01 ◼   ► hypothetically, we would have had all sorts of options

00:49:04 ◼   ► of things to do.

00:49:04 ◼   ► And that's kind of exciting because one thing I feared

00:49:07 ◼   ► is that over the years, as less and less of us

00:49:10 ◼   ► win the lottery and are able to go to WWDC,

00:49:13 ◼   ► conference, I was wondering if, you know, would I go to San Francisco during that week

00:49:19 ◼   ► in future years if I didn't have a ticket to WWDC? And if things like Layers and AltCon

00:49:25 ◼   ► for going on, then heck yeah I will. I mean, that's awesome. So this is really exciting

00:49:29 ◼   ► and I'm really thrilled that people in the community are stepping up to make this even

00:49:35 ◼   ► more inclusive for those who don't have a ticket to the big show. So I'm really stoked.

00:49:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is really great work that the other organizers are putting on. There's even

00:49:45 ◼   ► like, on release night they were talking about how they're hosting a viewing room as part

00:49:50 ◼   ► of Alt Conf in a big theater where you can go and watch the live streams and watch session

00:49:55 ◼   ► videos as they're released. So like if you want, if you don't have a ticket but you're

00:49:58 ◼   ► gonna be there and you want to do, and you want to see like the live stuff and you want

00:50:03 ◼   ► to watch the sessions, they're setting up a room that everyone can watch it in. It's

00:50:07 ◼   ► amazing, like, and they aren't the only ones doing this. A lot of people do viewing parties,

00:50:10 ◼   ► get together with a projector to watch a live stream

00:50:14 ◼   ► or whatever, so many people do this kind of stuff.

00:50:16 ◼   ► It's really great and the fact there's a lot of people,

00:50:20 ◼   ► it's hard if you don't know a lot of people out there,

00:50:23 ◼   ► if you don't have friends, it's hard to find some

00:50:25 ◼   ► of this private stuff, but now there's things like

00:50:28 ◼   ► AltConf and Layers, these are public events

00:50:31 ◼   ► that anybody can go to.

00:50:32 ◼   ► AltConf is even free.

00:50:34 ◼   ► I mean, anybody can go to these things,

00:50:36 ◼   ► so even if you don't have friends out there already

00:50:39 ◼   ► you don't know a lot of people out there,

00:50:41 ◼   ► there's now still options even for that.

00:50:43 ◼   ► And that's fantastic, 'cause that really,

00:50:45 ◼   ► it's hard to break into the social crowd

00:50:49 ◼   ► of certain app developers, if you don't know anybody.

00:50:52 ◼   ► This provides ways to do that, and that's really great.

00:50:55 ◼   ► - All this is doing is making hotel prices even higher.

00:50:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true. (laughing)

00:51:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, they were terrible this year.

00:51:02 ◼   ► I mean, they've been getting progressively worse,

00:51:04 ◼   ► but I feel like, maybe it's all in my head,

00:51:05 ◼   ► but I feel like there was a big jump this year.

00:51:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know, maybe the hotels have finally figured out

00:51:11 ◼   ► what happens this week.

00:51:12 ◼   ► - Well, what happened is the Park 55,

00:51:14 ◼   ► the Park 55 was our cheap go-to the last few years,

00:51:17 ◼   ► and it got bought by Hilton.

00:51:18 ◼   ► - I think the Pickwick was expensive this year, though,

00:51:21 ◼   ► wasn't it?

00:51:22 ◼   ► Like, everything was expensive.

00:51:22 ◼   ► - That's insane.

00:51:23 ◼   ► I've stayed at the Pickwick one year,

00:51:25 ◼   ► and I think it has since been refurbished,

00:51:27 ◼   ► but the time I was there,

00:51:28 ◼   ► let's just say you get what you pay for.

00:51:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:31 ◼   ► - No, but the problem is in San Francisco,

00:51:33 ◼   ► you don't get what you pay for.

00:51:34 ◼   ► 'Cause you can pay like 300 bucks a night

00:51:36 ◼   ► for a hotel room,

00:51:37 ◼   ► But in San Francisco during WWDC week, $300 a night is on the cheap end, and so you can

00:51:41 ◼   ► have a cheap, crappy hotel and have paid $300 a night for it.

00:51:45 ◼   ► Yeah, the room rates this year are like, every night that you're staying in San Francisco,

00:51:51 ◼   ► you could buy yourself a new Apple Watch.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Well, so you then said that to me originally.

00:51:55 ◼   ► I don't remember who it was, but...

00:51:56 ◼   ► Well, you know, it's when, you know, when I was shopping for hotel prices way before

00:52:01 ◼   ► the lottery, which by the way, this is another, we're not doing WWDC tips this time, but this

00:52:04 ◼   ► This is another thing that people who go to WDC frequently do is book your hotel

00:52:08 ◼   ► Reservations before you even know when WDC is going to be because hotel reservations are really easy to cancel

00:52:13 ◼   ► All you need is like 24 hours notice usually right so book your hotel reservations and when I was doing that

00:52:18 ◼   ► If you're not gonna go pickwick like everything was

00:52:22 ◼   ► $350 or more and so yeah, it's just like just just consider one more day one more Apple watch

00:52:29 ◼   ► I'm not getting open other Apple watch going out the window. Let me chuck this Apple watch sport out the window

00:52:33 ◼   ► Just every day you're there. You're just burning Apple watches. It's the unit of currency instead of paying for rooms

00:52:38 ◼   ► You'll just trade in a fistful of Apple watches with their little green bands

00:52:42 ◼   ► That's like a gasoline is the currency in Mad Max, right so well in San Francisco

00:52:54 ◼   ► Just the wads of Apple watches colorful sport bands. Yeah

00:52:59 ◼   ► Yeah, well it the pickwick is at least better than what is it the Mosser who David Sparks was saying?

00:53:03 ◼   ► on the talk show.

00:53:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is the one with shared bathrooms.

00:53:06 ◼   ► You get progressively,

00:53:07 ◼   ► and that probably is still $200 a night, so.

00:53:10 ◼   ► - Our second sponsor this week is Harvest.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Harvest is a beautiful business tool

00:53:15 ◼   ► for tracking time spent on client projects.

00:53:18 ◼   ► If you do client work,

00:53:19 ◼   ► time tracking is such a major part of it,

00:53:21 ◼   ► as Casey, you know this, right?

00:53:23 ◼   ► With Harvest, no matter where you find yourself working,

00:53:26 ◼   ► the focus stays on the task at hand.

00:53:28 ◼   ► So it's very simple.

00:53:29 ◼   ► You're working on something, you start a timer for it.

00:53:31 ◼   ► You can start these timers from anywhere.

00:53:33 ◼   ► your web browser, your desktop, your mobile device.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Tracked hours appear in beautiful visual time reports.

00:53:39 ◼   ► And then when all is said and done,

00:53:40 ◼   ► and all the work is done, you can create an invoice.

00:53:43 ◼   ► Well, the work is really never done,

00:53:44 ◼   ► but you know, when you need to get paid,

00:53:47 ◼   ► you can create an invoice with billable hours

00:53:49 ◼   ► right in Harvest, everything's all integrated.

00:53:51 ◼   ► Harvest gives you the tools, data, and visualizations

00:53:54 ◼   ► designed to keep projects on time and within budget.

00:53:57 ◼   ► And you can use these tools, you can see for yourself.

00:53:59 ◼   ► You can see data like which clients and projects

00:54:02 ◼   ► are actually making you money,

00:54:03 ◼   ► and which ones are really just costing you

00:54:04 ◼   ► because you're putting so much time into them

00:54:06 ◼   ► that you can't make that much money back.

00:54:08 ◼   ► So Casey, I'm curious, you work in the consulting business.

00:54:12 ◼   ► How useful is a tool like Harvest

00:54:14 ◼   ► to really boost your time tracking skills?

00:54:17 ◼   ► - Oh, it's hugely useful because I am an erosion

00:54:19 ◼   ► on the bottom line of the company

00:54:21 ◼   ► if I am not billing a client.

00:54:22 ◼   ► And so you bet your butt that I need to make sure

00:54:26 ◼   ► I'm billing every second I'm working for a client.

00:54:29 ◼   ► And something like Harvest does a really good job

00:54:31 ◼   ► of making sure that I do exactly that.

00:54:33 ◼   ► And the key to this is it being extremely low friction,

00:54:37 ◼   ► and that's exactly what this is.

00:54:39 ◼   ► So I definitely recommend having Harvest

00:54:43 ◼   ► or something along those lines, preferably Harvest,

00:54:45 ◼   ► to do this because if you're anything like me,

00:54:48 ◼   ► doing it in your head is just a recipe for disaster.

00:54:50 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:54:51 ◼   ► So Harvest gives you all the tools to make this painless.

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00:55:01 ◼   ► you can make sure you're making money,

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00:55:33 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Harvest, getharvest.com

00:55:35 ◼   ► for sponsoring our show once again.

00:55:37 ◼   ► - You know, it occurred to me just a moment ago

00:55:40 ◼   ► that the new MacBook Pro is the same style

00:55:44 ◼   ► as the new Mac Pro was prior to the trash can,

00:55:48 ◼   ► where they just kinda slapped a new sticker

00:55:50 ◼   ► on what was already there and said,

00:55:51 ◼   ► "Yay, yeah, this is totally new, you guys.

00:55:53 ◼   ► "You should buy one."

00:55:54 ◼   ► - It's a little bit better than that.

00:55:55 ◼   ► They changed the track pad.

00:55:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:55:58 ◼   ► - It has a new SSD.

00:55:59 ◼   ► - The new Mac Pro is like where there was,

00:56:03 ◼   ► yeah, there was no new features.

00:56:05 ◼   ► It was literally just an internal upgrade

00:56:07 ◼   ► that was not a significant one.

00:56:09 ◼   ► - It was like two different processor options

00:56:11 ◼   ► and price drop on one of them.

00:56:13 ◼   ► Yeah, this is a real update.

00:56:16 ◼   ► It's just a really small one.

00:56:18 ◼   ► You know, they did upgrade the SSD

00:56:20 ◼   ► to be the new PCI X4, I believe.

00:56:23 ◼   ► - And that's significant if you're doing anything

00:56:25 ◼   ► that was IO bound because it's not like the SSDs

00:56:26 ◼   ► are like 10% faster.

00:56:28 ◼   ► they're like 2X, which is, that's good.

00:56:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was a great benchmark on BareFeets

00:56:32 ◼   ► that showed 'em all, and it's, it really,

00:56:33 ◼   ► like, the SSD in the newest, I believe it's the 13 and 15

00:56:38 ◼   ► Retina MacBook Pro and the new MacBook,

00:56:39 ◼   ► the 12 inch MacBook One, I believe those are all now

00:56:44 ◼   ► faster than the SSDs that are in the Mac Pro.

00:56:47 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:56:47 ◼   ► - Because the Mac Pro just hasn't gotten this update yet.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - That's, the Mac Pro is comfortable in that position

00:56:51 ◼   ► of being the machine that has just never updated

00:56:53 ◼   ► while the lesser machines slowly pass it by.

00:56:56 ◼   ► - Exactly, so yeah, it was an update.

00:56:59 ◼   ► The issue, as with almost everything in the last year,

00:57:05 ◼   ► is that Broadwell chips have not shipped yet

00:57:08 ◼   ► for the Quad Core, so Intel has had such major delays

00:57:11 ◼   ► with Broadwell, I think it's almost a year later

00:57:13 ◼   ► than it was supposed to be.

00:57:14 ◼   ► They just barely got the Broadwell chips out

00:57:16 ◼   ► for the low power model, so the ones that are used

00:57:19 ◼   ► in the MacBook One, and the ones that are used

00:57:21 ◼   ► in the MacBook Air, and I think,

00:57:22 ◼   ► did the Thursday News get Broadwell?

00:57:24 ◼   ► I think it did too.

00:57:25 ◼   ► but the quad core Broadwell chips are still not out.

00:57:29 ◼   ► We're getting close to Skylakes

00:57:30 ◼   ► as intended to release date.

00:57:31 ◼   ► Like Skylake's supposed to come out

00:57:32 ◼   ► like this fall or next spring.

00:57:34 ◼   ► At this point, it's pretty clear what's happening here

00:57:37 ◼   ► is that Intel, all their production delays on Broadwell,

00:57:41 ◼   ► they just can't get the quad cores out in time

00:57:44 ◼   ► that Apple wants, then Apple needed to do an update.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Oh, they also updated the GPU, that's a big thing.

00:57:48 ◼   ► I don't know anything about these GPUs,

00:57:50 ◼   ► but the old GPU, everyone said was really getting ancient,

00:57:54 ◼   ► and GPUs move so quickly that's plausible.

00:57:56 ◼   ► The new one is probably not gonna satisfy people

00:57:58 ◼   ► 'cause people are never satisfied

00:57:59 ◼   ► with the GPUs Apple picks,

00:58:00 ◼   ► but it will at least be newer and probably faster.

00:58:03 ◼   ► So that's important for a lot of people.

00:58:04 ◼   ► It doesn't matter to me,

00:58:05 ◼   ► but it's important for a lot of people, so I get that.

00:58:09 ◼   ► But for the most part, the problem is

00:58:11 ◼   ► there's no new CPUs to use.

00:58:12 ◼   ► So the CPU options,

00:58:14 ◼   ► and I believe even the motherboard chipset, the RAM,

00:58:17 ◼   ► everything is the exact same as last year

00:58:19 ◼   ► in those departments.

00:58:20 ◼   ► So it is really kind of a half update.

00:58:23 ◼   ► - No USB-C either, right?

00:58:25 ◼   ► - Correct, yeah, no USB-C, no external case changes.

00:58:28 ◼   ► They did, because they did the Force Touch track pad,

00:58:32 ◼   ► they did add 4% more battery wattage to it.

00:58:37 ◼   ► I'm assuming, they didn't say this,

00:58:39 ◼   ► I'm assuming it's because the Force Touch track pad

00:58:42 ◼   ► is thinner and so they gained a little bit more space

00:58:45 ◼   ► under it, so they probably could fill that with battery

00:58:48 ◼   ► 'cause the battery in this--

00:58:49 ◼   ► - They could've done their scalloped or terraced batteries

00:58:51 ◼   ► like they could have just, you know, wedge more stuff in it.

00:58:53 ◼   ► - Well, I think they would have said so if they did though.

00:58:55 ◼   ► I'm guessing that's not here yet,

00:58:57 ◼   ► because that would have probably involved a redesign

00:58:59 ◼   ► of the whole top case, which is where the batteries

00:59:01 ◼   ► are bonded, and they didn't do that.

00:59:03 ◼   ► So I'm guessing it's literally just like the battery

00:59:06 ◼   ► was able to get 4% bigger because of the space gain

00:59:09 ◼   ► with the force to extract that, and that's it.

00:59:10 ◼   ► - So this is a relatively unimpressive upgrade,

00:59:13 ◼   ► is what I'm hearing.

00:59:13 ◼   ► - Well, like, in this case, we get frustrated,

00:59:18 ◼   ► but it's like, oh, this is a bad update,

00:59:19 ◼   ► but it's so clear that this is not Apple dragging its feet.

00:59:23 ◼   ► It's Apple going like, well, should we just,

00:59:27 ◼   ► are they gonna be out or should we wait or no,

00:59:29 ◼   ► and now we can't wait.

00:59:30 ◼   ► I wonder when they made the decision to say,

00:59:32 ◼   ► we have to go with this sort of half update.

00:59:34 ◼   ► They can't ship machines with chips

00:59:36 ◼   ► that aren't available to purchase from Intel.

00:59:39 ◼   ► And it's a shame, but that's the position they're in.

00:59:42 ◼   ► So this is a half update, but it's the best they could do.

00:59:47 ◼   ► And timing-wise,

00:59:48 ◼   ► could they have done the half update earlier?

00:59:50 ◼   ► Some people were complaining like,

00:59:51 ◼   ► look, if you weren't gonna have Broadwell chips,

00:59:54 ◼   ► why the delay in releasing even these?

00:59:59 ◼   ► And we don't know, like maybe it took this long

01:00:01 ◼   ► to just get this design together,

01:00:03 ◼   ► because they made this decision several months ago

01:00:04 ◼   ► that they weren't, you know,

01:00:06 ◼   ► it's a shame, but it is what it is.

01:00:08 ◼   ► And I think with these machines,

01:00:10 ◼   ► most of the things I've seen from discussions

01:00:13 ◼   ► from Marco and other people is like,

01:00:15 ◼   ► if you have a recent Retina MacBook Pro,

01:00:17 ◼   ► should you buy one of these machines?

01:00:19 ◼   ► And it's like, well, you really have to look at

01:00:20 ◼   ► the few things that got better in them.

01:00:22 ◼   ► Are you doing stuff that's IO bound?

01:00:24 ◼   ► In which case the SSD is a big deal.

01:00:25 ◼   ► Yeah, are you doing something with GPU ground?

01:00:27 ◼   ► In which case the GPU is better,

01:00:28 ◼   ► but otherwise CPU is a small bump, blah, blah, blah.

01:00:31 ◼   ► But ignoring that, saying you don't have,

01:00:33 ◼   ► either you don't have a Mac laptop

01:00:35 ◼   ► or you don't have a MacBook Pro,

01:00:36 ◼   ► or you don't have a retina MacBook Pro,

01:00:38 ◼   ► these are still pretty good machines.

01:00:40 ◼   ► Like, it's not like this is a dog.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Like you buy this,

01:00:43 ◼   ► oh, you bought one of those crappy ones.

01:00:44 ◼   ► We're just, we're kind of like purely judging it

01:00:47 ◼   ► as how big a leap over the previous one it is, is it?

01:00:50 ◼   ► Whereas if you're using a non-retina MacBook

01:00:53 ◼   ► from a long time ago, or you've never purchased a Mac,

01:00:55 ◼   ► this seems like a perfectly fine machine, right?

01:00:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I said in my post,

01:01:01 ◼   ► so I've been using a 2012 15-inch Retina MacBook,

01:01:04 ◼   ► the very first Retina MacBook Pro.

01:01:05 ◼   ► It's been great, I love it, it's been awesome.

01:01:09 ◼   ► The only downside to it is that

01:01:12 ◼   ► usually when I'm on a cross-country flight

01:01:14 ◼   ► using Xcode and serious computing stuff the whole time,

01:01:18 ◼   ► usually I need about an hour more battery life

01:01:21 ◼   ► or maybe occasionally two hours more battery life

01:01:24 ◼   ► to really be happy with it.

01:01:26 ◼   ► That is the only time that I'm not 100% satisfied

01:01:28 ◼   ► with this machine, it is so good.

01:01:30 ◼   ► And since then, since 2012, they actually have gotten,

01:01:34 ◼   ► I think they've gotten that extra hour or hour and a half

01:01:37 ◼   ► just by improvements going from Ivy Bridge to Haswell

01:01:42 ◼   ► and a couple other minor improvements.

01:01:44 ◼   ► but I really don't, it turns out I don't like Force Touch.

01:01:48 ◼   ► I like it on the watch, it's fine.

01:01:50 ◼   ► I really don't care for the Force Touch track pads

01:01:53 ◼   ► that are in the laptops right now.

01:01:55 ◼   ► I tried them in the store and then I'll get to,

01:01:59 ◼   ► I guess we'll get to my mistake one in a minute,

01:02:01 ◼   ► but I just don't like them.

01:02:04 ◼   ► I don't like the way they feel.

01:02:05 ◼   ► They don't, they do feel like you're clicking a button

01:02:09 ◼   ► and it is a really cool thing.

01:02:11 ◼   ► It's a really cool technical achievement.

01:02:13 ◼   ► it's very impressive, it does feel like you're clicking

01:02:15 ◼   ► a physical button for the most part.

01:02:18 ◼   ► I would say it feels like 80% right,

01:02:22 ◼   ► but it's kinda like an uncanny valley situation,

01:02:25 ◼   ► like it almost feels like you're pushing a good button,

01:02:28 ◼   ► but not quite, and that not quite really irritates me,

01:02:31 ◼   ► and it doesn't feel like a good button press.

01:02:35 ◼   ► It is really impressive that it works as well as it does

01:02:37 ◼   ► considering that there's no moving parts,

01:02:40 ◼   ► But I just, I really don't like it.

01:02:42 ◼   ► So I like the previous generation 15 inch so much

01:02:48 ◼   ► that I actually ordered yesterday's,

01:02:50 ◼   ► or you know, last week's model,

01:02:52 ◼   ► which is the 2014 model, I actually ordered one of those

01:02:56 ◼   ► on clearance from Amazon for 1850 to replace,

01:03:00 ◼   ► 'cause I mentioned earlier, I really need to

01:03:04 ◼   ► hand this computer down to a family member

01:03:06 ◼   ► and I kinda wanted to,

01:03:09 ◼   ► I kind of wanted a new one just to get a new battery

01:03:11 ◼   ► and to get that extra hour,

01:03:13 ◼   ► 'cause even though this is great,

01:03:15 ◼   ► it also has a three year old battery in it

01:03:16 ◼   ► 'cause it's three years old.

01:03:17 ◼   ► So this one still works so well

01:03:20 ◼   ► that I can still hand it down to a family member

01:03:22 ◼   ► or I could sell it for a good price

01:03:24 ◼   ► if I don't need to hand it down anymore.

01:03:26 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:03:27 ◼   ► I really do think that the base model 15 inch

01:03:32 ◼   ► is an incredibly good value.

01:03:36 ◼   ► It is the most machine that most people need.

01:03:39 ◼   ► It is not that much, so the base model

01:03:42 ◼   ► 15 inch is usually $2,000.

01:03:44 ◼   ► You can usually get a refurb or a clearance,

01:03:47 ◼   ► or you can get it from a reseller like Amazon

01:03:49 ◼   ► for $16 to $1,800.

01:03:51 ◼   ► That's a really good buy compared to getting like a 13 inch

01:03:57 ◼   ► and specing it up to be similar,

01:03:59 ◼   ► and that's only a few hundred dollars less usually.

01:04:02 ◼   ► The 15 inch is so good, so powerful, so fast,

01:04:05 ◼   ► screen is huge you can do so much with it it has all the ports that that John

01:04:10 ◼   ► needs it's it's great so I that's why I like it so much I I compared it John

01:04:16 ◼   ► will appreciate this I compare it to the Honda Accord I saw the comparison and

01:04:22 ◼   ► don't think it quite made sense what you're trying to say is that you can get

01:04:24 ◼   ► a surprising amount for your money but like maybe if you can find your context

01:04:29 ◼   ► who just retin-up MacBooks or just Apple laptops, then it fits that. But still, at like $1600

01:04:38 ◼   ► to $2000, this is a fairly expensive laptop in the grand scheme of things.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Well, it isn't a fairly expensive Mac laptop. It's a mid-priced Mac laptop.

01:04:47 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying. So once you can find it to Macs, I would think that the Honda Accord

01:04:52 ◼   ► is probably more like the 13-inch Air, because it's got the non-retina screen, and it's not

01:04:58 ◼   ► even an IPS screen or whatever but that thing does all the things a laptop is

01:05:03 ◼   ► supposed to do. Is it easy to carry? It does all the stuff. It has the ports. It's

01:05:06 ◼   ► like it is a complete thing whereas you demand as we know from both your cars

01:05:11 ◼   ► and your computers a little bit more perhaps than the Honda Accord and its

01:05:14 ◼   ► four-cylinder engine has to offer VTech notwithstanding. So you are you are

01:05:21 ◼   ► shopping in a different class of things so I think it is more apt to call that

01:05:25 ◼   ► that thing, the 535i.

01:05:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:29 ◼   ► Like it's not the M5, right?

01:05:31 ◼   ► But it's still a premium product, it's large,

01:05:34 ◼   ► it's got a big engine, and the 13 inch air

01:05:36 ◼   ► is the Honda Accord.

01:05:37 ◼   ► Anyway, I don't think it matters which car

01:05:39 ◼   ► these things correspond to.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Bottom line, it's a very nice machine.

01:05:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, and what I discovered is that it is by far

01:05:47 ◼   ► the machine I'm happiest with.

01:05:49 ◼   ► If I get anything smaller than a 15,

01:05:50 ◼   ► there are trips that I take that I really regret it.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Not all trips, a lot of trips I can take

01:05:55 ◼   ► and I wish I had the smallest laptop possible.

01:05:58 ◼   ► You know, trips where I'm not really coding,

01:05:59 ◼   ► I'm not really working, I just need to, you know,

01:06:01 ◼   ► keep up on email and stuff and browse the web sometimes.

01:06:04 ◼   ► Like that's, and I don't like using iPads for that,

01:06:06 ◼   ► sorry everybody.

01:06:07 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:06:07 ◼   ► You know, that's fine.

01:06:08 ◼   ► - Well, so this is exactly why you felt the urge

01:06:11 ◼   ► to go out and buy a brand new laptop

01:06:13 ◼   ► that is not the 15 inch.

01:06:14 ◼   ► Because you like new things.

01:06:17 ◼   ► - That's, well--

01:06:18 ◼   ► - Briefly.

01:06:19 ◼   ► - Yes, so--

01:06:20 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:06:22 ◼   ► I've had mixed experience with new things.

01:06:26 ◼   ► The 5K iMac is the best computer I've ever owned.

01:06:29 ◼   ► It's amazing.

01:06:30 ◼   ► I'm so ridiculously happy with it.

01:06:33 ◼   ► The Apple Watch I've had since day one,

01:06:35 ◼   ► so what is that, about three weeks now.

01:06:38 ◼   ► Love it.

01:06:38 ◼   ► I so love the Apple Watch.

01:06:42 ◼   ► It is, for a 1.0 especially, it's an amazing product.

01:06:45 ◼   ► It is not perfect, but it is really, really good.

01:06:50 ◼   ► I'm enjoying it more than I expected to.

01:06:53 ◼   ► I like it, I use it a lot, it has made me

01:06:57 ◼   ► actually increase my physical activity level

01:06:59 ◼   ► on a regular basis so far.

01:07:01 ◼   ► It is so good.

01:07:02 ◼   ► I am so happy with the Apple Watch.

01:07:04 ◼   ► And again, so happy with the 5K iMac.

01:07:06 ◼   ► I'm so happy with the 15-inch laptop line.

01:07:08 ◼   ► I like a lot of things.

01:07:11 ◼   ► I thought I would like to have the MacBook One.

01:07:16 ◼   ► - Can you explain to people what the MacBook One is?

01:07:18 ◼   ► the new MacBook with one port.

01:07:20 ◼   ► - Yes, we always just talk about it as that.

01:07:22 ◼   ► I think who coined that term, is that Marco?

01:07:24 ◼   ► - I did, yeah.

01:07:25 ◼   ► - Anyway, yes, that's what we're talking about,

01:07:26 ◼   ► the really skinny MacBook with one port

01:07:28 ◼   ► that we talked about for like seven episodes,

01:07:31 ◼   ► complaining about the fact that it has one port.

01:07:32 ◼   ► - Exactly, and we're gonna talk about it

01:07:33 ◼   ► a little more now, but it's all right.

01:07:35 ◼   ► So for years, I've been thinking, you know what,

01:07:38 ◼   ► I would love to have like a bedside tiny computer

01:07:42 ◼   ► that I could occasionally write blog posts on,

01:07:44 ◼   ► answer email, like if I go up to bed early

01:07:47 ◼   ► and I wanna like--

01:07:48 ◼   ► - Whoa, stop.

01:07:49 ◼   ► When do you ever answer email?

01:07:51 ◼   ► - I don't have a computer to answer it on.

01:07:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the problem.

01:07:54 ◼   ► - We were made in front of everyone

01:07:55 ◼   ► for the day phone and night phone,

01:07:56 ◼   ► but now Marco is buying laptops specifically for use,

01:08:01 ◼   ► but then in certain rooms of his house.

01:08:03 ◼   ► - Yes, my upstairs laptop, my downstairs laptop, no.

01:08:05 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

01:08:06 ◼   ► - So, you know, I was waffling for years over the idea

01:08:09 ◼   ► of maybe I'd go pick up a used 11-inch Air from somewhere,

01:08:13 ◼   ► because for my purposes of blogging and emailing and stuff,

01:08:17 ◼   ► it wouldn't need to be high spec at all.

01:08:19 ◼   ► It could be very slow, it doesn't need to be new,

01:08:23 ◼   ► it could be fine.

01:08:24 ◼   ► And I would use that and then occasionally

01:08:27 ◼   ► when I do take these trips where I don't need

01:08:29 ◼   ► to get any work done, when I just wanna keep up

01:08:31 ◼   ► on email and stuff, I can bring that as the laptop

01:08:33 ◼   ► instead of bringing my big 15 inch.

01:08:36 ◼   ► So this was my thought.

01:08:37 ◼   ► And for years I've been thinking about this

01:08:39 ◼   ► and not doing it.

01:08:40 ◼   ► And when I saw the MacBook One in person in the store,

01:08:43 ◼   ► I was really tempted by it.

01:08:45 ◼   ► from the very first time I saw it.

01:08:47 ◼   ► And I've, through various watch trips and repairs,

01:08:49 ◼   ► I've actually been to Apple stores a number of times

01:08:52 ◼   ► since it's come out.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And every time I go, I always go over to MacBook One

01:08:56 ◼   ► and I look at it and I type on it,

01:08:57 ◼   ► I'm like, can I live with this?

01:08:58 ◼   ► Can I live with this keyboard?

01:08:59 ◼   ► I know it's a weird keyboard, but can I live with it?

01:09:02 ◼   ► And it is just so small and so light

01:09:05 ◼   ► and the screen looks pretty good

01:09:07 ◼   ► and it isn't as good as other Retinas.

01:09:09 ◼   ► I was wrong about that, but it is close.

01:09:13 ◼   ► And it is better than the 11 inch Air screen.

01:09:15 ◼   ► that's for sure, the non-retina.

01:09:18 ◼   ► So it looks great.

01:09:19 ◼   ► This machine, you see it and you're drawn to it.

01:09:22 ◼   ► It's like a lust.

01:09:24 ◼   ► You see this, you're like,

01:09:24 ◼   ► "Oh my God, this is such a nice machine."

01:09:27 ◼   ► The business rep in my store,

01:09:29 ◼   ► I mentioned at one point that I was possibly interested

01:09:32 ◼   ► in one at some point,

01:09:34 ◼   ► and they emailed me saying they had one in.

01:09:36 ◼   ► And I thought, you know what,

01:09:37 ◼   ► I'm about to go on a trip this weekend

01:09:38 ◼   ► where it would be the perfect trip to test it out on.

01:09:41 ◼   ► Let me try, let me get it.

01:09:43 ◼   ► I think I'm ready.

01:09:44 ◼   ► I think this is a good idea for me.

01:09:46 ◼   ► Let's see, how do I put this?

01:09:49 ◼   ► Our third sponsor this week is Fracture.

01:09:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:09:52 ◼   ► Fracture prints your photos in vivid color directly on glass.

01:09:55 ◼   ► Go to fractureme.com.

01:09:58 ◼   ► Fracture photos are awesome.

01:09:59 ◼   ► I have a bunch of them around my office.

01:10:01 ◼   ► I got, let's see, five, six now?

01:10:03 ◼   ► So, oh wait, no, more over there.

01:10:05 ◼   ► I think I have eight in my office right now.

01:10:08 ◼   ► So many of these things, they are fantastic.

01:10:10 ◼   ► So really, it is a photo printed on glass.

01:10:13 ◼   ► You go there, you upload your photo.

01:10:15 ◼   ► And by the way, it doesn't have to be a photo.

01:10:16 ◼   ► So three of mine in my office are icons

01:10:19 ◼   ► for the apps that I've made.

01:10:20 ◼   ► As kind of like these little trophies

01:10:21 ◼   ► or these little show pieces of like,

01:10:23 ◼   ► here's the row of apps I've made.

01:10:25 ◼   ► And these are these little glass prints

01:10:27 ◼   ► that hang on the wall.

01:10:28 ◼   ► They look fantastic, right?

01:10:29 ◼   ► And then I have photos.

01:10:30 ◼   ► Family photos, fun photos, illustrations.

01:10:33 ◼   ► I got a couple of those up here and there.

01:10:35 ◼   ► They are fantastic.

01:10:36 ◼   ► It is such good quality on these Fracture prints.

01:10:38 ◼   ► I always get compliments on them.

01:10:39 ◼   ► People always ask about them.

01:10:40 ◼   ► They ask where they can get them.

01:10:42 ◼   ► People who know fracture, who know of them

01:10:44 ◼   ► through the podcast, if they're here,

01:10:45 ◼   ► they'll be like, oh, are those the fractures?

01:10:47 ◼   ► They always ask about them.

01:10:48 ◼   ► So many compliments, they're so good.

01:10:50 ◼   ► So really, it is a piece of glass,

01:10:53 ◼   ► it's a thin piece of glass adhered to this foam board thing

01:10:56 ◼   ► so that you can put a nail in it,

01:10:57 ◼   ► and the photo was printed on the back surface

01:11:01 ◼   ► of this thin piece of glass,

01:11:02 ◼   ► and so it shows through the front.

01:11:04 ◼   ► And so it's protected, it doesn't scratch off or anything,

01:11:07 ◼   ► it doesn't look weird.

01:11:08 ◼   ► It also doesn't need a frame, which is really cool,

01:11:11 ◼   ► because then, normally you get a nice photo printed,

01:11:15 ◼   ► then you gotta get a frame for it,

01:11:16 ◼   ► or get a custom frame, which is really expensive,

01:11:19 ◼   ► and it doesn't kinda look right,

01:11:21 ◼   ► just having photos hanging on your wall by themselves.

01:11:23 ◼   ► With Fracture, it is its own complete product.

01:11:25 ◼   ► It looks great, you don't need a frame.

01:11:27 ◼   ► It is fantastic, it is clean, it's modern,

01:11:30 ◼   ► it's very, very well priced.

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01:11:34 ◼   ► to get your photo on the wall or desk right in the box.

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01:11:38 ◼   ► for a five by five inch square.

01:11:40 ◼   ► they also have rectangles.

01:11:41 ◼   ► This is a, 5x5 is a great size for like Instagram photos,

01:11:45 ◼   ► 'cause it's small enough, it's big enough

01:11:46 ◼   ► that you can see it, in fact, most of mine

01:11:48 ◼   ► are that small size, but it's small enough

01:11:50 ◼   ► that if you only have like a low-res iPhone shot,

01:11:53 ◼   ► the photo still looks great, even at that size.

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01:12:07 ◼   ► They are so good.

01:12:09 ◼   ► They make great gifts.

01:12:10 ◼   ► If you wanna give them as gifts for holidays

01:12:12 ◼   ► or birthdays or whatever,

01:12:14 ◼   ► or just send them to your friends as gags,

01:12:16 ◼   ► or as gifts to your friends.

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01:12:20 ◼   ► looking funny or whatever, you can send them.

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01:12:23 ◼   ► I really, I can't recommend Fracture enough,

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01:12:46 ◼   ► So once again, go to fractureme.com

01:12:49 ◼   ► and use coupon code ATP15 for 15% off your first order.

01:12:54 ◼   ► Thank you very much to Fracture.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Photos printed directly on Glass.

01:12:57 ◼   ► It is so good, highly recommended.

01:12:59 ◼   ► - So tell us about your big mistake.

01:13:01 ◼   ► - So I really, I talked myself into the MacBook One.

01:13:06 ◼   ► I said, you know, for this purpose that I've wanted

01:13:08 ◼   ► for a while, it would be amazing.

01:13:10 ◼   ► 'Cause the one thing with the 11 inch Air

01:13:12 ◼   ► is the non-retina screen.

01:13:13 ◼   ► And that's a pretty big thing for me.

01:13:15 ◼   ► I really care a lot about retina

01:13:17 ◼   ► and I really don't like using non-retina screens.

01:13:20 ◼   ► And MacBook One, I thought, you know what,

01:13:24 ◼   ► let me give this a try.

01:13:25 ◼   ► I think I might love this actually.

01:13:27 ◼   ► And so I bought it and I brought it home

01:13:31 ◼   ► and I used it for about 36 hours, pretty heavily.

01:13:35 ◼   ► A lot of people were criticizing me for reviewing it

01:13:38 ◼   ► after only having it for a day and a half.

01:13:42 ◼   ► And that's somewhat fair, but I just really hated it.

01:13:46 ◼   ► - So what did you hate?

01:13:49 ◼   ► - I knew the keyboard was gonna be weird.

01:13:52 ◼   ► That being said, so every time I was in the Apple store,

01:13:54 ◼   ► I think I saw it in person maybe three times

01:13:56 ◼   ► before buying it, so every time that I saw it,

01:13:58 ◼   ► I would go to it, I'd open up the Notes app,

01:14:00 ◼   ► and I'd just start typing something long,

01:14:02 ◼   ► just to kind of see, like, can I get used to this keyboard?

01:14:04 ◼   ► Every time I was getting better at it,

01:14:06 ◼   ► and I started realizing, you know, I actually,

01:14:09 ◼   ► this is fine, I can type on this.

01:14:11 ◼   ► I don't like typing on it that much, but I can do it.

01:14:14 ◼   ► So I can probably get used to it,

01:14:15 ◼   ► and it's probably gonna be fine.

01:14:17 ◼   ► And I got it, and I got it home,

01:14:18 ◼   ► and I started typing a lot on it as I was setting it up,

01:14:20 ◼   ► and then I installed all my chat apps on it,

01:14:22 ◼   ► so I'd be typing more, I installed Slack,

01:14:24 ◼   ► and I installed Twitter, and then I installed email,

01:14:27 ◼   ► and I started responding to a bunch of my email.

01:14:30 ◼   ► And so I did a lot of typing on it.

01:14:33 ◼   ► and I got really fast with it.

01:14:36 ◼   ► Speed was not an issue at all.

01:14:38 ◼   ► And accuracy wasn't that bad either.

01:14:41 ◼   ► My big problem with the keyboard is just that it doesn't

01:14:43 ◼   ► feel good, and to me it actually feels bad.

01:14:46 ◼   ► And I guess I wanna be careful here to not say that

01:14:52 ◼   ► people who think differently are just wrong and stupid.

01:14:55 ◼   ► This is my opinion, of course, but I really don't like

01:14:58 ◼   ► the key switch feel.

01:15:00 ◼   ► Part of it is the short travel of the keys,

01:15:02 ◼   ► which everyone's side says, yes, they're very shallow,

01:15:04 ◼   ► they don't push down very far.

01:15:06 ◼   ► But also, for me, part of it was the way they click down.

01:15:10 ◼   ► It is like, a key switch is kind of a soft actuation

01:15:13 ◼   ► on a regular keyboard.

01:15:15 ◼   ► These are, they're like tiny little hard dimple buttons.

01:15:20 ◼   ► It clicks like bubble wrap.

01:15:21 ◼   ► It's like there's a snap when you push it in.

01:15:24 ◼   ► And it doesn't, it feels like buttons.

01:15:27 ◼   ► It doesn't feel like keys, if that makes sense.

01:15:30 ◼   ► - Is it also noisier?

01:15:31 ◼   ► you say that in your review or somebody else?

01:15:33 ◼   ► - It, I think it is, it sounds different.

01:15:36 ◼   ► I would say it's noisier.

01:15:37 ◼   ► The trackpad is a little bit quieter,

01:15:39 ◼   ► keyboard's a little bit louder.

01:15:40 ◼   ► I think it depends on what you're doing.

01:15:43 ◼   ► But it had a weird sound, and I could definitely see

01:15:48 ◼   ► other people in the room being annoyed by it

01:15:50 ◼   ► if I were to use it in a workplace

01:15:52 ◼   ► that was not full of the same computer.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Yeah, it is weird, it's clicky,

01:15:56 ◼   ► but not in a good clicky keyboard way.

01:15:58 ◼   ► It's just a very strange keyboard.

01:16:01 ◼   ► I also did not, as I mentioned earlier,

01:16:02 ◼   ► I didn't care for the trackpad, the ForceTux trackpad.

01:16:05 ◼   ► - Wait, hold on, before you get to the trackpad,

01:16:07 ◼   ► can you just remind everyone,

01:16:08 ◼   ► what is the keyboard you're used to using,

01:16:10 ◼   ► say, with your 5K iMac?

01:16:12 ◼   ► - The keyboard I use is, on a regular basis,

01:16:15 ◼   ► is the Microsoft Sculpt Ergo economic, or Ergonomic.

01:16:20 ◼   ► So the Sculpt Ergonomic desktop keyboard,

01:16:22 ◼   ► I don't know, it has like four words.

01:16:23 ◼   ► One of them is Sculpt, one of them is Ergonomic.

01:16:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:16:26 ◼   ► - But this is not a traditional, like,

01:16:28 ◼   ► clicky-clackity keyboard like a lot of popular Apple people use.

01:16:33 ◼   ► No, I've tried those in the past. I have not found an ergonomic one of those that fit me

01:16:40 ◼   ► very well. There are very few ergonomic mechanical keyboards. The one that was my favorite was

01:16:45 ◼   ► the Mattias or Mattias Ergopro. I did a review on my site a couple months ago when that came

01:16:51 ◼   ► out. That was my favorite one of the mechanical ones, but the Sculpt Ergo from Microsoft just

01:16:57 ◼   ► fits me a little, like the curvature of it

01:16:58 ◼   ► just is more comfortable for me, so I stick with it.

01:17:00 ◼   ► It has scissor keys, like laptop keyboards,

01:17:02 ◼   ► like other laptop keyboards. (laughs)

01:17:04 ◼   ► It has, you know, like they're shallow,

01:17:07 ◼   ► but not that shallow, then they have

01:17:08 ◼   ► like the scissor mechanism under them,

01:17:09 ◼   ► so they kind of squish down.

01:17:11 ◼   ► It's not a clicky keyboard, but it's fine.

01:17:14 ◼   ► I like it a lot.

01:17:16 ◼   ► - But more importantly, you like the keyboard

01:17:17 ◼   ► on your 15-inch.

01:17:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, and you know, like the keyboard

01:17:20 ◼   ► that Apple's been using on laptops forever,

01:17:22 ◼   ► I mean, even before this, the G4 keyboard,

01:17:25 ◼   ► That's where I started my Mac life.

01:17:28 ◼   ► And I loved that keyboard too, it was fine.

01:17:32 ◼   ► And the current keyboards that are on every Mac laptop,

01:17:35 ◼   ► except for the MacBook One, I think they're great.

01:17:38 ◼   ► I've never had any problem with them.

01:17:39 ◼   ► They're, you know, they're not like,

01:17:42 ◼   ► I don't type on this and say this is the best keyboard

01:17:43 ◼   ► I've ever used, but I also don't think about it

01:17:45 ◼   ► 'cause it's just good.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Like, it is completely forgettable in all the best ways.

01:17:49 ◼   ► They're just good keyboards.

01:17:51 ◼   ► And until you use a bad keyboard,

01:17:52 ◼   ► you don't really appreciate quite how good they are.

01:17:55 ◼   ► - I think that if you use this keyboard

01:17:57 ◼   ► for a longer period of time,

01:17:58 ◼   ► you just would have accepted this

01:18:00 ◼   ► in the same way that you accept the inferior

01:18:02 ◼   ► to your Microsoft Sculpt keyboard,

01:18:03 ◼   ► but otherwise, like, you just get used to it.

01:18:05 ◼   ► Like, if all the laptop keyboards were like this,

01:18:07 ◼   ► and you had no choice and you used it for like a year,

01:18:09 ◼   ► would you eventually settle into the same compromise

01:18:11 ◼   ► where it's like, well, I prefer my desktop keyboard,

01:18:14 ◼   ► obviously it's better, but these are fine.

01:18:16 ◼   ► - I'm sure I could.

01:18:17 ◼   ► A bunch of my friends have these computers and love them.

01:18:20 ◼   ► And I was asking some questions here and there on Twitter

01:18:22 ◼   ► and privately and everything.

01:18:23 ◼   ► And somebody said, I think it was Paul Haddad from Tweetbot,

01:18:28 ◼   ► "It's a perfectly fine keyboard once you get used to it

01:18:32 ◼   ► "if you never use any other keyboards."

01:18:35 ◼   ► 'Cause it is such a different feel from other keyboards

01:18:39 ◼   ► that it is very strange to transition between it.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Even though I have no trouble transitioning between

01:18:44 ◼   ► my split ergonomic Kirby keyboard on my desktop

01:18:47 ◼   ► and the straight keyboard on my laptop.

01:18:49 ◼   ► I have no trouble, like I've never had an issue

01:18:51 ◼   ► getting used to one or the other or transitioning

01:18:53 ◼   ► even though they're physically very differently spaced apart, very different keys, etc. With

01:18:58 ◼   ► the MacBook One, it is such a different feel, and you have to press down with so little

01:19:03 ◼   ► depth, but still a similar amount of force. Like, this is part of my problem with it.

01:19:09 ◼   ► Ergonomic keyboards are designed, like, they're really good ergonomic keyboards, like from

01:19:13 ◼   ► Kinesis, they're designed very carefully to modulate the amount of force that you need

01:19:18 ◼   ► to push a key down so that you're not pushing too hard. If you have to push too hard, or

01:19:23 ◼   ► Or if you have to push hard enough that after it has actuated you're still like kind of

01:19:28 ◼   ► bottoming out, like you're still slamming the key into like the floor of the keyboard

01:19:32 ◼   ► further than you have to to actuate the key press, those are all bad for RSI and ergonomics.

01:19:38 ◼   ► Those all really exacerbate things like carpal tunnel syndrome and various other RSI things.

01:19:43 ◼   ► They really are not good.

01:19:44 ◼   ► And so these keyboards are designed very carefully such that they match the level of pressure

01:19:50 ◼   ► required to depress a key and how far it needs to be depressed with the way people's fingers

01:19:55 ◼   ► work and the way people type and how like your fingers are all different strengths.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Your outer fingers like your pinky ring finger, those are weaker than your index finger or

01:20:04 ◼   ► your thumb and so like the really fancy ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis will actually have

01:20:10 ◼   ► different key presses, different key press forces rather on different keys depending

01:20:14 ◼   ► on which of your fingers are intended to hit them. So the keys in the middle will be harder

01:20:18 ◼   ► to press than the ones towards the edges, because then your weaker fingers press the

01:20:21 ◼   ► ones towards the edges. So all this care is put into keyboard design for very good reasons,

01:20:27 ◼   ► because it really does matter, it really does make things feel better or be more or less

01:20:32 ◼   ► problematic for RSI sufferers, and I do have mild RSI problems and I manage them by doing

01:20:37 ◼   ► things like using a split keyboard. Not as bad as John, but I do need to avoid RSI problems.

01:20:45 ◼   ► The MacBook keyboard, the MacBook One keyboard,

01:20:48 ◼   ► it really, I have concerns for ergonomics,

01:20:51 ◼   ► for long-term use of it,

01:20:53 ◼   ► more so than the regular laptop keyboards.

01:20:55 ◼   ► - You're saying you think it takes more pressure,

01:20:57 ◼   ► more force than the other,

01:20:59 ◼   ► than the non MacBook One MacBook keyboards?

01:21:02 ◼   ► - I think it does.

01:21:03 ◼   ► I don't have it anymore to do a side-by-side test,

01:21:06 ◼   ► but I did some while I had it, and it's different,

01:21:10 ◼   ► because as Andrew mentioned,

01:21:11 ◼   ► the way the keys click down is a different type

01:21:13 ◼   ► of click force and a different type of response,

01:21:16 ◼   ► not just being more shallow,

01:21:18 ◼   ► it is really a very different feel to the click,

01:21:20 ◼   ► but I had some concerns using it about RSI,

01:21:24 ◼   ► and I was a little sore after my day and a half using it.

01:21:28 ◼   ► Now, that's too early to say

01:21:29 ◼   ► whether it's the keyboard's fault

01:21:31 ◼   ► or whether it's just 'cause it was different.

01:21:32 ◼   ► That could go either way, so I'm not claiming

01:21:34 ◼   ► that I had a problem from that keyboard necessarily,

01:21:37 ◼   ► but I do have concerns because it seems like

01:21:41 ◼   ► The ergonomics of it are substantially worse

01:21:44 ◼   ► in this one key way, no pun intended,

01:21:47 ◼   ► of the pressure required to depress the keys

01:21:50 ◼   ► and then trying to avoid the slamming against the bottom

01:21:54 ◼   ► and the bottoming out of pushing it too far.

01:21:57 ◼   ► The way these keys are designed,

01:21:58 ◼   ► the shallow travel makes it very hard

01:22:01 ◼   ► not to bottom out like that.

01:22:03 ◼   ► But the key switch type,

01:22:06 ◼   ► where you have to kind of press hard to get it to actuate,

01:22:09 ◼   ► makes it even harder to avoid bottoming out like that,

01:22:12 ◼   ► and especially on your less precise fingers.

01:22:16 ◼   ► One of the problems I had getting accurate with it

01:22:19 ◼   ► was the key I most frequently mis-hit was delete,

01:22:24 ◼   ► because my pinky has to hit delete,

01:22:26 ◼   ► one of my weakest fingers.

01:22:28 ◼   ► And so I would frequently go to hit delete

01:22:31 ◼   ► and not push hard enough,

01:22:32 ◼   ► and have to then go like redo it again,

01:22:34 ◼   ► 'cause I would typo there,

01:22:36 ◼   ► 'cause I wasn't pushing hard enough

01:22:38 ◼   ► to actuate the faraway keys.

01:22:42 ◼   ► And eventually, I got used to it enough

01:22:44 ◼   ► that I was able to do that,

01:22:45 ◼   ► but it was never anywhere near as comfortable to use,

01:22:50 ◼   ► and it was always very frustrating to use

01:22:54 ◼   ► as a result of that.

01:22:55 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

01:22:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so.

01:22:58 ◼   ► Now, you were starting to talk about the Force Touch Trackpad.

01:23:02 ◼   ► - The Force Touch Trackpad is not as bad as the keyboard.

01:23:06 ◼   ► I really would prefer never to own a laptop

01:23:09 ◼   ► with that keyboard.

01:23:10 ◼   ► If I had to own a laptop with the ForceTox trackpad,

01:23:13 ◼   ► I would deal with it.

01:23:14 ◼   ► It wouldn't be a massive problem for using the laptop.

01:23:17 ◼   ► I would deal with it.

01:23:19 ◼   ► But I don't like it.

01:23:21 ◼   ► And I would prefer not to have to deal with it if possible.

01:23:25 ◼   ► The ForceTox trackpad, as I mentioned earlier,

01:23:28 ◼   ► it is a very good technical achievement,

01:23:30 ◼   ► but it doesn't feel like a good button press.

01:23:32 ◼   ► it feels like a worse trackpad in use than the old one did.

01:23:37 ◼   ► It is a softer, quieter click,

01:23:39 ◼   ► which is nice for noise reasons.

01:23:43 ◼   ► It is uniform across the entire surface, as I mentioned,

01:23:46 ◼   ► because of the way it works,

01:23:47 ◼   ► rather than like the older trackpad has a hinge at the top,

01:23:51 ◼   ► and so the bottom of it pushes down the furthest,

01:23:54 ◼   ► so you kinda have to click at the bottom

01:23:56 ◼   ► to make the old style work,

01:23:58 ◼   ► whereas the ForceTux, you can click anywhere on it,

01:23:59 ◼   ► and it doesn't matter where you click,

01:24:00 ◼   ► and it does the same feedback regardless.

01:24:02 ◼   ► My problem is, the old way of having to click on the bottom,

01:24:06 ◼   ► well that's fine, that's what I've always done.

01:24:07 ◼   ► Like before that one, when there was the button

01:24:09 ◼   ► only at the bottom, the separate button

01:24:11 ◼   ► with the old soundtrack pads,

01:24:12 ◼   ► that's what we all got used to.

01:24:13 ◼   ► That's why that one was designed that way,

01:24:15 ◼   ► was because you could basically just keep your fingers

01:24:17 ◼   ► all in the same spots and do the same thing

01:24:19 ◼   ► and it would still work.

01:24:20 ◼   ► The Force Touch, even though it is now uniform

01:24:23 ◼   ► across the whole surface, no part of that surface

01:24:26 ◼   ► feels as good as the bottom half of the old track pad.

01:24:29 ◼   ► There's three different settings for how firm

01:24:31 ◼   ► you have to press and then how much feedback you get

01:24:33 ◼   ► as a result of that.

01:24:35 ◼   ► As I was pressing on it, I didn't feel like

01:24:39 ◼   ► I was pushing a button sometimes.

01:24:41 ◼   ► I never forgot that I was kinda

01:24:43 ◼   ► mushing my finger against glass.

01:24:45 ◼   ► Again, as I said earlier, it feels like 80% like a button,

01:24:48 ◼   ► but not like a button, you know,

01:24:50 ◼   ► because it doesn't get all the way there.

01:24:52 ◼   ► Maybe having that deeper force click,

01:24:55 ◼   ► like the third level click,

01:24:56 ◼   ► maybe that is gonna be so compelling in time

01:25:00 ◼   ► that I'll tolerate it, or maybe, as I mentioned on Twitter,

01:25:03 ◼   ► like maybe I will just convert into a tap to click person,

01:25:06 ◼   ► which I've never been, and I tried it once,

01:25:08 ◼   ► I experimented back in college, you know,

01:25:10 ◼   ► I tried it once, I didn't like it, I switched back,

01:25:13 ◼   ► but like, I just don't like it, simple as that.

01:25:16 ◼   ► So the MacBook One has a keyboard I really don't like,

01:25:20 ◼   ► a trackpad I just normally don't like.

01:25:24 ◼   ► The problem is that all the things I would do on it

01:25:26 ◼   ► would involve a lot of typing.

01:25:27 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:25:29 ◼   ► So today I decided it was just not for me,

01:25:32 ◼   ► and I returned it.

01:25:33 ◼   ► - Did you let Tiff try it?

01:25:36 ◼   ► - I don't think, I didn't.

01:25:38 ◼   ► She was making fun of me for even having gotten it.

01:25:42 ◼   ► - I just wanted like, you know,

01:25:43 ◼   ► I had none, if you gave this,

01:25:46 ◼   ► 'cause I've heard so many stories of people,

01:25:48 ◼   ► regular people going into the Apple store,

01:25:50 ◼   ► and not knowing that the button didn't move down, right?

01:25:53 ◼   ► Or not realizing that the keyboard was different

01:25:55 ◼   ► in any significant way, and I'm wondering

01:25:56 ◼   ► how noticeable are these differences to people,

01:26:00 ◼   ► to people for whom buying a new computer,

01:26:03 ◼   ► like I feel like they just expect it to come

01:26:06 ◼   ► with a host of minor differences and inconveniences.

01:26:10 ◼   ► I like my old screen better.

01:26:11 ◼   ► I like the way the old laptop was shaped.

01:26:13 ◼   ► I like the old laptop's color.

01:26:14 ◼   ► I don't like this keyboard.

01:26:15 ◼   ► Like if you buy a new Mac every five years,

01:26:18 ◼   ► you are forced to deal with these things.

01:26:20 ◼   ► You know, I liked it when the Trackboard had a button,

01:26:22 ◼   ► right, you know, 'cause if you're upgrading

01:26:24 ◼   ► not very frequently, every new Mac you buy, it seems like,

01:26:28 ◼   ► has one of these things where you're not used to something

01:26:32 ◼   ► that you touch on the thing.

01:26:34 ◼   ► The keyboard is different, the trackpad is different,

01:26:36 ◼   ► the screen is different, it's missing some ports,

01:26:38 ◼   ► it doesn't have an optical drive, so on and so forth.

01:26:40 ◼   ► And yet people still continue to buy new computers

01:26:44 ◼   ► just because that's like the price of doing things.

01:26:45 ◼   ► So I'm wondering, would normal people even notice

01:26:50 ◼   ► that this keyboard is different,

01:26:51 ◼   ► or would they accept that it is as different

01:26:53 ◼   ► as them upgrading, I guess we've had a long sort of run

01:26:57 ◼   ► of trackpad and keyboard continuity,

01:26:59 ◼   ► so they have to be coming from either the arrow

01:27:01 ◼   ► with the button on the trackpad,

01:27:02 ◼   ► or, I mean the keyboards have been the same forever,

01:27:04 ◼   ► except plus or minus some flexibility in the underpinnings.

01:27:08 ◼   ► But yeah, that's why someone who cares less

01:27:10 ◼   ► about these things and is less picky, frankly,

01:27:13 ◼   ► would they care and be like,

01:27:13 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, whatever, it's keyboard,

01:27:15 ◼   ► "you can use it with the trackpad,

01:27:16 ◼   ► "oh, I didn't even notice anything different about it,

01:27:18 ◼   ► "whatever, it's fine."

01:27:19 ◼   ► - And that's very possible.

01:27:21 ◼   ► I mean, you know, there are certainly,

01:27:23 ◼   ► it is certainly valid to be skeptical or critical

01:27:26 ◼   ► of my point of view here, because you think

01:27:28 ◼   ► that I just don't like it 'cause it's new.

01:27:30 ◼   ► And that's, I might, that's, I don't know.

01:27:33 ◼   ► What I can say is that in the last, I don't know,

01:27:36 ◼   ► three, four years, I have gone through periods

01:27:40 ◼   ► where I have regularly used six different keyboards.