ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I'm back playtime is over. Yeah

00:00:02 ◼   ► Are we gonna get past follow-up tonight, sir? Well, I don't I have to talk to you about your drink before we start

00:00:08 ◼   ► This is the preflight we were doing off the air

00:00:10 ◼   ► Marco wanted to know what your what your liquid situation was surrounding your computer

00:00:15 ◼   ► And I remember hearing maybe maybe on the podcast that wasn't on you talking about your stupid cup thing that weevils wobble

00:00:21 ◼   ► But they don't fall down

00:00:22 ◼   ► Technology is employed in yep

00:00:24 ◼   ► And I think you're kind of missing the point the point is not to get a cup

00:00:28 ◼   ► If you if you knock it over on top of your computer

00:00:31 ◼   ► Will hopefully through the design of the cup not have any liquid fallout or some magical cup that is impossible to knock over that you

00:00:38 ◼   ► Could hit it with the oncoming freight train and this couple not tip over

00:00:42 ◼   ► all of those things are

00:00:45 ◼   ► Fixing the problem in the wrong way

00:00:46 ◼   ► You gotta you have to accept the fact that the cup will tip over and spill water out

00:00:51 ◼   ► Even if you think you come a won't tip over a B won't spill liquid just accept that both of those things

00:00:55 ◼   ► It's it's like servers. You know servers will fail hardware will fail

00:00:59 ◼   ► Just accept it and then build a system where when your cup falls over starts dripping liquid

00:01:05 ◼   ► Explodes whatever the liquid. What was that?

00:01:09 ◼   ► That was not the cup don't worry

00:01:11 ◼   ► I'll show you in a second all right that the liquid that does come out

00:01:15 ◼   ► Will fall down with gravity away from your computer, which is up higher than it, so this is the system

00:01:20 ◼   ► I implore you to get going on so I'm going to

00:01:24 ◼   ► I'm going to tweet at you too because I don't want to make a public public public tweet

00:01:30 ◼   ► A picture of my setup at mom and dad's and let me show you

00:01:34 ◼   ► It's something that will bake you even more excited over my setup

00:01:39 ◼   ► We hear mom and dad so give me just a moment

00:01:42 ◼   ► So is that what you mean John put it up above the computer so it spills directly onto the computer, that's the idea

00:01:52 ◼   ► That's kind of the worst setup I've ever seen I think.

00:01:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:56 ◼   ► - I like the fact that you have to reach across

00:01:58 ◼   ► both your microphone and the computer to get to the cup.

00:01:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:02 ◼   ► - No, I put that there just temporarily.

00:02:03 ◼   ► - Why don't you maybe tie the microphone cable

00:02:05 ◼   ► around the base of the cup?

00:02:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:08 ◼   ► - Oh goodness, no I did that just temporarily just for you.

00:02:12 ◼   ► - Anyway, my point is don't put your faith in weird cups.

00:02:15 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:02:17 ◼   ► - By the way, I love that we kicked John out of the show

00:02:20 ◼   ► for one episode, and he goes and forms two new podcasts.

00:02:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, seriously, apparently it takes--

00:02:25 ◼   ► - What do you mean two new podcasts?

00:02:26 ◼   ► I didn't form two new podcasts, what are you talking about?

00:02:27 ◼   ► - Robot or not?

00:02:28 ◼   ► - Oh, that wasn't when I was, whatever.

00:02:31 ◼   ► The timelines are all messed up.

00:02:32 ◼   ► All these things happened way before last episode.

00:02:36 ◼   ► - All I'm saying is, apparently it takes two podcasts,

00:02:40 ◼   ► one with Merlin Mann and one with Jason Snell,

00:02:42 ◼   ► to equal the awesomeness that is ATP.

00:02:45 ◼   ► - Reconcilable Difference is the other one.

00:02:46 ◼   ► That's the one that launched today on Relay,

00:02:48 ◼   ► which is awesome.

00:02:48 ◼   ► which actually all snark aside is unbelievably good.

00:02:52 ◼   ► I am stunned at how unbelievably,

00:02:55 ◼   ► well, I'm not really that surprised actually at all,

00:02:56 ◼   ► but it is really, really, really good.

00:02:59 ◼   ► And I absolutely love the first episode.

00:03:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Both of them are interesting and exciting

00:03:04 ◼   ► and are using innovative scheduling technologies

00:03:08 ◼   ► to fit themselves into my schedule.

00:03:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I am genuinely surprised that you signed up

00:03:13 ◼   ► for doing even one new podcast regularly, let alone two.

00:03:18 ◼   ► though my understanding is you've kind of cheated the system with robot or not a little bit.

00:03:22 ◼   ► Well, no all of this like ATB is the standard one every week we show up we record it goes out

00:03:26 ◼   ► You know that's what people expect, but the other ones are done in creative ways to fit into all of our schedules

00:03:33 ◼   ► We're all busy people, but we want to do new interesting things and they're not podcasts about tech

00:03:39 ◼   ► So it gives me an outlet aside from the incomparable which I continue to do to talk about non tech stuff

00:03:46 ◼   ► Excellent all right, so

00:03:48 ◼   ► We should probably do a little bit of follow-up, and I might have skipped over a little bit that you might want to talk about John

00:03:55 ◼   ► Feel free to take it away. Well now. It's probably it's probably too late right. We don't have to talk about it

00:04:00 ◼   ► No, it is not too late

00:04:02 ◼   ► Last time and you guys were so busy like patting yourselves in the back

00:04:06 ◼   ► But look at the timestamp when you end a follow-up

00:04:10 ◼   ► It was the same amount of times usually you just spent a lot of time

00:04:13 ◼   ► Complaining about follow-up and not doing follow-up until you said okay now finally follow-up is over. It's not like you save time

00:04:18 ◼   ► Anyway, all I wanted to do for the for all the various step tracker GPS phone

00:04:24 ◼   ► accuracy watch accuracy things was to note the we'll put in this a

00:04:29 ◼   ► linked Apple's

00:04:31 ◼   ► support article about this and note the interesting bit about

00:04:35 ◼   ► tracking your distance

00:04:37 ◼   ► when running with both a watch and a phone is

00:04:40 ◼   ► that

00:04:42 ◼   ► The reason it might be off is because it the devices apparently and hinted at by this Apple document are trying to save energy by

00:04:50 ◼   ► Not using the GPS all the time by trying to use the step tracker by trying to calibrate the step tracker either in the phone

00:04:56 ◼   ► Or in the watch or both and just use the accelerometer to count your steps rather than having the GPS going the whole time tracing

00:05:01 ◼   ► Your route because a lot of people are asking how can if you if you go with the watch and the phone

00:05:06 ◼   ► How can it be any worse or different in any way than a Garmin GPS watch?

00:05:10 ◼   ► wouldn't it be exactly the same as in GPS GPS what is the big difference here and the difference appears to be from

00:05:15 ◼   ► This knowledge base article and people's experience that the Apple devices are trying to cheat to save battery and say well once we get calibrated

00:05:24 ◼   ► Stepping for the accelerometer everything we'll use that most of the time and maybe check in on GPS periodically

00:05:29 ◼   ► Which is another interesting trade-off and I think something that Apple will probably

00:05:33 ◼   ► adjust with time as they get more battery strength and maybe if they want to be taken more seriously in the sort of

00:05:39 ◼   ► hardcore sports fitness market those type of people like look just use my battery the whole point of bringing you with me is because I

00:05:45 ◼   ► want an exact route of where I ran

00:05:47 ◼   ► All right, well that was it after there's like two pages of this in the show notes

00:05:52 ◼   ► I know, but it's kind of old now. We had a bunch of people write in about it with links

00:05:56 ◼   ► we'll put them in the in the show notes. There's a couple of people tweeted about the

00:06:00 ◼   ► People's upcoming reviews like sort of hardcore fitness device reviewers

00:06:07 ◼   ► review of the Apple watch on the iPhone

00:06:09 ◼   ► They're not done yet. Apparently these people who do these reviews, but when they do come out

00:06:14 ◼   ► Maybe it will finally pin down these devices say just how accurate are they? What are their characteristics?

00:06:18 ◼   ► because all we've got now is a bunch of people saying I

00:06:20 ◼   ► Did some exercise with some collection of Apple devices and I feel like it did or didn't count

00:06:27 ◼   ► My steps or heart rate or exertion correctly and of course because these people are in the same zone as Marco where they're a slave

00:06:34 ◼   ► to the green rings, they demand that their green rings reflect their activity, and so

00:06:39 ◼   ► they're upset by it.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Oh man, the green rings are getting harder to fill.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Like now, I had to walk for an hour today to get, I think, 25 minutes worth of credit

00:06:48 ◼   ► on it.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Oh, seriously?

00:06:50 ◼   ► Yeah, because like, well, part of it might be the way it's measuring.

00:06:53 ◼   ► A bigger part of it is that because I keep filling it every day, I'm getting into better

00:06:58 ◼   ► shape.

00:06:59 ◼   ► And so, I think this is how things work, I don't know.

00:07:03 ◼   ► but I think my body is having to exert itself less

00:07:06 ◼   ► to do the same hills every day.

00:07:09 ◼   ► - No, it scales it.

00:07:10 ◼   ► It scales the amount.

00:07:11 ◼   ► It starts you off with a small goal.

00:07:13 ◼   ► You only have to do X amount of activity,

00:07:14 ◼   ► and if you keep meeting that goal,

00:07:16 ◼   ► it'll say, "Okay, now you gotta do X plus two,

00:07:17 ◼   ► "X plus three, X plus four."

00:07:19 ◼   ► - Well, I don't think that's,

00:07:21 ◼   ► first of all, I don't think it automatically adjusts.

00:07:23 ◼   ► It prompts you to adjust.

00:07:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it does automatically adjust.

00:07:27 ◼   ► I remember reading that, but the people saying

00:07:29 ◼   ► like that the activity that you have to do

00:07:31 ◼   ► It starts off very easy so you feel like

00:07:33 ◼   ► you're achieving something, but if you repeatedly

00:07:35 ◼   ► achieve it, it will push the goal farther out from you.

00:07:37 ◼   ► And you're also right about the heart rate stuff.

00:07:39 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, first of all, I question whether that's true,

00:07:42 ◼   ► but the heart rate is 30 minutes.

00:07:45 ◼   ► The goal's always 30 minutes.

00:07:46 ◼   ► I don't know what the threshold is

00:07:48 ◼   ► considered to be an elevated heart rate.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Is it 120?

00:07:52 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:07:53 ◼   ► I'm estimating it's something around 120,

00:07:55 ◼   ► but I really don't know.

00:07:56 ◼   ► I can't really tell.

00:07:58 ◼   ► - I think the only other follow-up item I had

00:08:00 ◼   ► was from the episode.

00:08:01 ◼   ► wasn't on where you were talking about the Johnny I of promotion or whatever you want

00:08:05 ◼   ► to call it to from his what was his previous position like chief senior vice president

00:08:11 ◼   ► of design I think or something like that right and now he's collateralized that obligation

00:08:15 ◼   ► instead right so his his new title I think the various articles written about this covered

00:08:23 ◼   ► all the points but as always it's like the mixture and you guys when you talked about

00:08:27 ◼   ► mixture of what to emphasize. I mostly agree that this change in title is

00:08:35 ◼   ► making up for the fact that

00:08:37 ◼   ► he, not that he wants to leave, but that he

00:08:43 ◼   ► he wants to do different things and that itch can turn into wanting to leave

00:08:50 ◼   ► but it just seems like

00:08:53 ◼   ► What I keep thinking of is if you were Johnny I've and you've done all the things that he's done

00:08:57 ◼   ► What do you have left to prove in the making electronic devices space?

00:09:01 ◼   ► Maybe the car is like again if you're thinking of what would keep Johnny I've around what would keep him excited. Is he excited about

00:09:09 ◼   ► laptops desktops

00:09:12 ◼   ► Airport things or whatever like maybe he still is excited

00:09:15 ◼   ► But I'm just gonna say that he has nothing left to prove in those categories

00:09:17 ◼   ► Like if he never doesn't it designs another thing

00:09:19 ◼   ► He's still going to be one of the most well-known designers of the century he lived in right

00:09:25 ◼   ► And so if you don't have anything left to prove, but you are an artistic person

00:09:28 ◼   ► And you you want new challenges interesting things

00:09:31 ◼   ► That's why I think the whole thing's like he's gonna participate in designing the stores

00:09:34 ◼   ► I bet I bet he really wants to do that because that's slightly different than what he's been doing before

00:09:37 ◼   ► And if they're doing a car I bet he's super into that and I bet he was super into the watch because it's a little bit

00:09:43 ◼   ► different so I

00:09:44 ◼   ► Don't think he's like he was out the door and they had to do this to keep him around

00:09:48 ◼   ► But I do see this as a move he's he's stepping towards the door slowly

00:09:52 ◼   ► Finding interesting things to pick up on his way to the door, and I think that's fine and the other thing is

00:09:58 ◼   ► talking about this position of like well if you're delegating to these people if

00:10:02 ◼   ► Alan Dye or whatever is doing the software and what's the other guy's name Haworth or something Richard Howard?

00:10:07 ◼   ► Yeah, he's and he's gonna do the hardware, and it's like like you're just delegating everything

00:10:13 ◼   ► And maybe you're gonna be looking at the store

00:10:14 ◼   ► How can you be the chief of design the design chief of anything if everyone else is doing the actual work?

00:10:20 ◼   ► And almost all the discussions except for good old Gruber always

00:10:25 ◼   ► His article on this topic was one of those cases where he hit every single point

00:10:30 ◼   ► I would if I was writing a thing about this I was reading his thing. I'm like, okay. Yeah, but he's gonna say this

00:10:34 ◼   ► Yeah, okay. I wonder what this point. Yeah. Okay what he did every single point. I was gonna hit it was like

00:10:38 ◼   ► Just read that article that is exactly my opinion and the one point that I saw a few people hit

00:10:43 ◼   ► but he did was

00:10:45 ◼   ► CDO who was the previous CDO Steve Jobs? He didn't do anything. All he did was oversee other people doing the things

00:10:51 ◼   ► How can you have how can you have any influence on design if you don't design anything?

00:10:55 ◼   ► That's basically what Steve Jobs did

00:10:56 ◼   ► He didn't like run the company his CEO Tim Cook did that right and the other people did all the actual work of

00:11:02 ◼   ► Making the hardware making the software doing different mock-ups, you know, he was the chief design officer

00:11:08 ◼   ► That was his main job and everyone says oh without Steve Jobs

00:11:11 ◼   ► I can't but then when Johnny I've moves into essentially the exact same position that Steve Jobs had people like oh god

00:11:16 ◼   ► He can't have any influence

00:11:17 ◼   ► He's out the door with Steve Jobs out the door because he didn't do any of the work

00:11:20 ◼   ► Now granted Johnny I've has the ability to do a lot of the work that Steve Jobs didn't but I think it is

00:11:25 ◼   ► Perfectly possible for Johnny I've in his current position to exert the same amount if not more control than he did

00:11:31 ◼   ► Before because he will have more authority and he this is a higher-level position

00:11:35 ◼   ► Even if it is a step towards the door

00:11:37 ◼   ► So and then like you guys said I don't I don't think it's the end of the world if he leaves because I think at this

00:11:43 ◼   ► point

00:11:44 ◼   ► He should go do more interesting things and if he wants to design

00:11:48 ◼   ► Thermostats or airplanes more power to him

00:11:51 ◼   ► I think Apple is in good hands

00:11:53 ◼   ► And it's kind of like any car company that has a designer that sort of defines the signature look of the car company eventually

00:11:59 ◼   ► The car company wants a different look and just hope the next guy come who comes in isn't you know a bangle or whatever?

00:12:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I was gonna say Chris Bangle though, everyone kind of wanted him out and in this case everyone wants Johnny to stay

00:12:10 ◼   ► So it's it's similar but yet very different all at the same time

00:12:14 ◼   ► Well, but like Bangle was a change from the old BMW look which was very conservative

00:12:17 ◼   ► And so all the cars kind of look the same and this was definitely you may not like the new look

00:12:22 ◼   ► But it was a change the same thing with Mercedes which was on the other direction

00:12:24 ◼   ► They used to look like kind of boring cars and then their new design direction was much more daring

00:12:28 ◼   ► Seriously, you think the new Mercedes is look daring? Oh, yeah much more dare. Are you kidding?

00:12:34 ◼   ► go look at what they look like in the 80s and even in the early 90s then all of a sudden they got swoopy and

00:12:38 ◼   ► Much more interesting looking designs. They don't didn't all look the same

00:12:42 ◼   ► And I like the new ones way better than the old ones. Yep

00:12:46 ◼   ► but but anyway, like regardless of what your opinion any sort of brand identity or design has to go through some

00:12:53 ◼   ► You can't use the same design forever and we've talked about this in terms of material science like aluminum and glass

00:12:59 ◼   ► It's probably gonna ask you last a really long time

00:13:02 ◼   ► But at a certain point maybe three design revisions from now like three three look revolutions three decades

00:13:07 ◼   ► Or you know three sets of 20 years. They'll be a materials revolution and actually now

00:13:12 ◼   ► It's not a question of how we shape aluminum and glass and whatever into different things

00:13:16 ◼   ► But it's entirely different materials that have different properties and Johnny

00:13:19 ◼   ► I would be long gone by them, but anyway

00:13:20 ◼   ► I don't see it as the end of the world if he leaves in a couple years all right any other follow-up

00:13:27 ◼   ► So, Jeff Williams is the Senior Vice President of Operations,

00:13:30 ◼   ► not the COO, as previously stated on the program.

00:13:33 ◼   ► - Yep, my mistake.

00:13:35 ◼   ► - Alright, cool.

00:13:35 ◼   ► What's awesome these days, Marco?

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00:17:18 ◼   ► Use promo code ATP for five bucks off your first purchase.

00:17:22 ◼   ► Thank you very much to Harry's

00:17:23 ◼   ► for sponsoring our show once again.

00:17:26 ◼   ► - Alright, so not to take a page out of

00:17:30 ◼   ► Connected's playbook, but since we are also

00:17:34 ◼   ► a photo management podcast, there's been some news.

00:17:38 ◼   ► And Google Photos is a thing.

00:17:40 ◼   ► So Google had IO, what was it, last week, is that right?

00:17:45 ◼   ► - It was the day after we recorded last week's episode.

00:17:48 ◼   ► - Of course it was.

00:17:49 ◼   ► - That was well planned.

00:17:50 ◼   ► ♫ Happy to die, Joe

00:17:51 ◼   ► - And so they released Google Photos,

00:17:53 ◼   ► which from what I gather is what everyone wanted

00:17:57 ◼   ► from photo management, maybe.

00:18:00 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:18:01 ◼   ► So what it allows you to do is it allows you

00:18:03 ◼   ► to upload all of your photos.

00:18:06 ◼   ► You can have an unlimited amount of storage,

00:18:08 ◼   ► unlimited amount of storage if you allow Google to recompress your pictures. It's

00:18:14 ◼   ► very cheap if you want to give them money to store full res

00:18:19 ◼   ► pictures. And from everything I've heard, I haven't had a chance to try this yet,

00:18:23 ◼   ► from everything I've heard it has unbelievable search capabilities. So I

00:18:29 ◼   ► think it might have been Russell Vanovich that had searched for sleeping

00:18:33 ◼   ► or something like that and there were a bunch of pictures of him and other

00:18:37 ◼   ► people asleep. And I'm sure it was him. He searched for the opera house in Sydney. And

00:18:44 ◼   ► not only did it find pictures with the opera house in Sydney in it, but it found a picture

00:18:50 ◼   ► of a picture of the Sydney Opera House, which I guess, in a lot of ways it makes sense,

00:18:57 ◼   ► but it's just that's kind of crazy all at the same time. So it is supposed to be really,

00:19:02 ◼   ► really good from everything I've gathered. Have you either of you guys had a chance to

00:19:06 ◼   ► Marco, have you tried it?

00:19:08 ◼   ► - You know, the world of tech is a really big place,

00:19:11 ◼   ► and there's only so much you can reasonably try

00:19:14 ◼   ► and put real effort and spend real time with.

00:19:17 ◼   ► And, you know, I'm not gonna try,

00:19:20 ◼   ► I never have tried everything that comes out,

00:19:23 ◼   ► and I never will, I will never have time for that,

00:19:25 ◼   ► nor is that really interesting to me.

00:19:26 ◼   ► So, I have not tried this either.

00:19:28 ◼   ► So, you know, I can comment on it

00:19:29 ◼   ► as a person who uses Apple's version of this,

00:19:32 ◼   ► as a person who uses Apple versions of most things,

00:19:35 ◼   ► as a person who has a lot of photos.

00:19:37 ◼   ► And to me, first of all, I think it's worth noting

00:19:42 ◼   ► that this is basically the only thing

00:19:43 ◼   ► anybody's talking about from Google I/O.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Like this was the big announcement, I think.

00:19:48 ◼   ► I think it's worth pointing out that Google

00:19:50 ◼   ► is kind of taking this, it seems,

00:19:54 ◼   ► taking this year to mature things

00:19:56 ◼   ► and do some less interesting

00:19:58 ◼   ► but necessary improvements everywhere.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Which is exactly what we're kind of hoping Apple will do.

00:20:02 ◼   ► Right?

00:20:03 ◼   ► - Oh, absolutely.

00:20:05 ◼   ► So that I think is interesting and I hope Apple takes the same opportunity.

00:20:10 ◼   ► But anyway, so Google Photos, I think it's really interesting.

00:20:12 ◼   ► I think the big things everyone seems to be talking about are what you said are the pricing

00:20:19 ◼   ► and the unlimited storage tier with the asterisk of recompressing and not supporting RAW, but

00:20:25 ◼   ► the unlimited star storage tier and the really, really good intelligence of recognizing things

00:20:31 ◼   ► and being able to search for things.

00:20:34 ◼   ► Those are really nice, however, neither of those really appeal to me. I've never done

00:20:40 ◼   ► like keywording or much metadata entry for my photos. And that's just, you know, some

00:20:46 ◼   ► people do, some people don't. I just don't. So I browse things just by date and I find

00:20:52 ◼   ► them looking for that way very, very easily just by skimming the timeline view and everything

00:20:56 ◼   ► in Apple stuff. So the thing about being able to search for things, like that's, it's a

00:21:02 ◼   ► a very impressive technical achievement

00:21:03 ◼   ► that solves a problem I don't have.

00:21:05 ◼   ► And then the unlimited storage thing

00:21:07 ◼   ► with the asterisk is nice.

00:21:10 ◼   ► A lot of people will use that.

00:21:12 ◼   ► I don't want that.

00:21:14 ◼   ► I want, if I'm gonna invest time and bandwidth and data

00:21:18 ◼   ► and possibly money into a photo storage solution,

00:21:23 ◼   ► I want it to store my originals,

00:21:25 ◼   ► and that includes massive files,

00:21:27 ◼   ► and that includes raw files.

00:21:28 ◼   ► And that's only, like, you know,

00:21:30 ◼   ► limit right now is 16 megapixel, I believe,

00:21:32 ◼   ► and it's using JPEG recompression to lower the rate

00:21:36 ◼   ► even further.

00:21:37 ◼   ► That, to me, like, again, I can see a lot of people

00:21:42 ◼   ► will be just fine with that, but I'm about to,

00:21:46 ◼   ► like, my camera for the last, oh god, I don't know,

00:21:49 ◼   ► six, seven years has been a 5D Mark II,

00:21:52 ◼   ► and that's already, you know, from six, seven years ago,

00:21:55 ◼   ► granted, it was a high-end camera back then,

00:21:56 ◼   ► but that already is, like, 22 megapixels,

00:22:00 ◼   ► or 21 megapixels, that's already past the limit.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Every camera on the market today that's really good

00:22:07 ◼   ► usually starts at 16 megapixels.

00:22:10 ◼   ► Like all the Micro Four Thirds cameras

00:22:13 ◼   ► and the Fuji X system and the little Sonys

00:22:17 ◼   ► that are not the Alpha 7 full frame series.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Almost all of those are 16 megapixels starting.

00:22:25 ◼   ► And many of them are now 24, some of them are even 36 now.

00:22:29 ◼   ► 6 now and Canon just released a 50 megapixel camera. So, like, there's, if you're buying

00:22:35 ◼   ► nice cameras, then you will be classified as a "pro" and all these consumer level solutions

00:22:41 ◼   ► are going to either limit you or not appeal to you and they seem to not care. They seem

00:22:46 ◼   ► to be okay to give you up. Unfortunately, I kind of fall on that side of that line just

00:22:52 ◼   ► by a little bit. So, like, I fall on the pro line just enough to want fancy editing controls

00:22:58 ◼   ► like what Lightroom gives me, and just enough to have a nice enough camera where I want

00:23:02 ◼   ► to shoot 24 megapixel images, but not so far that I want to abandon these systems completely

00:23:06 ◼   ► and give up all the cool sync stuff that they offer.

00:23:08 ◼   ► I have two minds on this sort of asterisk recompression thing. On the one side you say,

00:23:15 ◼   ► "Boy, this is actually kind of dangerous," because a lot of people asked when this came

00:23:17 ◼   ► out, "Oh, hey, can I use Google Photos to back up my photos?" And the answer is, if

00:23:22 ◼   ► you're using the free thing, no, because you're not really getting a backup. What you're getting

00:23:26 ◼   ► is a place where you can see your pictures but it is changing them, it's recompressing

00:23:30 ◼   ► them so it's not really a backup.

00:23:31 ◼   ► But on the other hand, by making it free and unlimited, it is way more attractive to people

00:23:37 ◼   ► who would otherwise do nothing to organize their photos.

00:23:40 ◼   ► And therefore it does serve as, "hey it's a hell of a lot better than nothing" kind

00:23:44 ◼   ► of backup for the people who previously just left all their pictures on their phone for

00:23:47 ◼   ► instance, right?

00:23:48 ◼   ► Like all, just all their pictures are on their Android phone and then they drop their phone

00:23:51 ◼   ► in a lake and they're like, "oh yeah, where are my pictures?"

00:23:54 ◼   ► This is a great solution for those people because even though it recompresses, the fact

00:23:58 ◼   ► that it's free and unlimited, they don't care about the asterisk and it's way better than

00:24:02 ◼   ► what they were doing before which is probably nothing.

00:24:04 ◼   ► So I think this probably hits the sweet spot of Google's target user which is the mass

00:24:09 ◼   ► market and not people who have fancy cameras, basically people who take pictures with their

00:24:13 ◼   ► phones.

00:24:14 ◼   ► Phones aren't yet 16 megapixels, they will be in a few years, but I think it is the right

00:24:20 ◼   ► solution for their audience and it also has the added benefit of making Apple's pricing

00:24:26 ◼   ► look terrible because even though it's not apples to apples, nobody knows or cares about

00:24:30 ◼   ► that.

00:24:31 ◼   ► If you were to explain to somebody, "No, you don't get it," Google re-compresses their

00:24:33 ◼   ► image and you try to explain what that means and they say, "Okay, show me the pictures."

00:24:35 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, they look the same to me."

00:24:37 ◼   ► And realistically, they do.

00:24:38 ◼   ► Like we're not going to be zooming way in on someone's eyeball on a 16-megapixel image

00:24:41 ◼   ► to show them, "See how Google re-compresses it and it looks like a mess?"

00:24:44 ◼   ► They're like, "Yeah, but I look at them like this and they look fine.

00:24:46 ◼   ► They look the same."

00:24:47 ◼   ► I think this is the right compromise,

00:24:49 ◼   ► even though it was disappointing when I learned

00:24:52 ◼   ► free and unlimited that that asterisk was there,

00:24:54 ◼   ► for me personally, but for everybody else,

00:24:57 ◼   ► definitely a good deal.

00:24:59 ◼   ► - Real quick, real time follow up,

00:25:00 ◼   ► the Galaxy S6 is 16 megapixel.

00:25:04 ◼   ► - There you go, we're already there.

00:25:05 ◼   ► Oh, that's right, the Nokia whatever

00:25:08 ◼   ► had the super high megapixel camera a couple years ago,

00:25:11 ◼   ► so we're probably a couple years into that.

00:25:12 ◼   ► - There's also, I think we might be about

00:25:14 ◼   ► to have a big megapixel spike,

00:25:16 ◼   ► because there's a couple of cameras in the market,

00:25:19 ◼   ► and I think one or two phones that even do this,

00:25:21 ◼   ► where, so, you know, we've seen over the last few years

00:25:25 ◼   ► how many of the, many of the cameras

00:25:27 ◼   ► and many smaller phones, or many phones,

00:25:29 ◼   ► including the iPhone 6 Plus,

00:25:31 ◼   ► has optical image stabilization,

00:25:32 ◼   ► and they do this by sensor shift.

00:25:34 ◼   ► They basically have accelerometers,

00:25:36 ◼   ► and they shift the sensor around really quickly

00:25:39 ◼   ► and adjust for camera shake and motion.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Well, somebody figured out recently

00:25:45 ◼   ► that you can use sensor shift to basically interpolate

00:25:49 ◼   ► a super high resolution picture from multiple captures.

00:25:53 ◼   ► So what they do is in very quick succession,

00:25:56 ◼   ► when you hit the shutter button in this special mode,

00:25:58 ◼   ► some of these cameras can basically use the image stabilizer

00:26:01 ◼   ► system to shift the sensor very slightly

00:26:04 ◼   ► in different directions over the course of a few seconds

00:26:07 ◼   ► to kind of interpolate a higher megapixel mode.

00:26:10 ◼   ► That can make a 16 megapixel sensor

00:26:12 ◼   ► take like a 50 megapixel image.

00:26:15 ◼   ► This could get, especially in the spec-obsessed,

00:26:18 ◼   ► hyper-competitive, camera-obsessed smartphone market,

00:26:21 ◼   ► it would not surprise me at all if this becomes

00:26:25 ◼   ► a very, very common feature among smartphone cameras.

00:26:29 ◼   ► And even though the optics will still be kinda crappy,

00:26:32 ◼   ► and even though the sensors will still be kinda crappy

00:26:34 ◼   ► with really tiny pixels, this will be a way

00:26:36 ◼   ► for many phones and many cameras

00:26:37 ◼   ► to claim ridiculous megapixel counts.

00:26:40 ◼   ► And there is additional resolution to be had there.

00:26:42 ◼   ► It's not, you know, it isn't as good as if you actually had

00:26:46 ◼   ► a giant sensor that big in most cases.

00:26:48 ◼   ► But it's better than not doing this at all.

00:26:52 ◼   ► So--

00:26:53 ◼   ► - I think people will use that for digital zoom

00:26:55 ◼   ► because I see people do that all the time.

00:26:56 ◼   ► They don't understand the quality loss

00:26:58 ◼   ► inherent in digital zoom.

00:26:59 ◼   ► But if you have 50 megapixels,

00:27:01 ◼   ► 'cause it's not, you know, why do you need 50 megapixels?

00:27:03 ◼   ► Unless you're printing out something poster size

00:27:04 ◼   ► or you're going to print it super high D,

00:27:07 ◼   ► like no one's gonna do that.

00:27:08 ◼   ► They just want pictures that are like human size

00:27:10 ◼   ► that are on their mantle.

00:27:11 ◼   ► you know, eight megapixels is fine for that,

00:27:13 ◼   ► 16 megapixels is fine.

00:27:14 ◼   ► So if you have 50, what does that buy you?

00:27:16 ◼   ► That buys you the ability to pinch

00:27:18 ◼   ► while you're taking the picture,

00:27:19 ◼   ► to zoom in and out instead of like walking closer

00:27:21 ◼   ► or farther away,

00:27:22 ◼   ► and still get a 10 megapixel image out of it.

00:27:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:26 ◼   ► No, I think the key piece to me

00:27:29 ◼   ► is what you had said, Marco, a little while ago,

00:27:31 ◼   ► that I really, I personally love the idea

00:27:34 ◼   ► of having this really robust search engine on my pictures.

00:27:38 ◼   ► I'm not really interested in weighing the pros and cons

00:27:41 ◼   ► giving my pictures to Google, but the problem I have with it is if I'm going to get into

00:27:46 ◼   ► this position where I have all of my pictures on Google Photos, I'm going to want that to

00:27:51 ◼   ► also serve as a backup in addition to being a really robust search engine.

00:27:55 ◼   ► And I know I've talked about Picture Life quite a lot on and off over the last few months,

00:28:00 ◼   ► but I really love Picture Life for a bunch of reasons, including them having a good search

00:28:06 ◼   ► engine, mostly around dates or locations.

00:28:09 ◼   ► as advanced as what Google Photos is doing, but also because they'll take every file as

00:28:14 ◼   ► it sits on the computer, including raw files.

00:28:17 ◼   ► And granted, you have to pay for it.

00:28:19 ◼   ► And I think I pay $15 a month for a limited storage.

00:28:22 ◼   ► I think I might be quoting that wrong.

00:28:26 ◼   ► But it serves not only as a nice repository, it does the time hop style thing where it

00:28:32 ◼   ► says, "Oh, this day, one year ago, two years ago, three years ago, this is what you were

00:28:35 ◼   ► doing."

00:28:36 ◼   ► But it also allows me to search for pictures very easily.

00:28:38 ◼   ► It allows me access to all of my pictures while I'm on the go.

00:28:42 ◼   ► It does a lot of the stuff that Google Photos and actually Photos app and iCloud Photos,

00:28:48 ◼   ► iCloud Photo Library, whatever, should and intends to do.

00:28:52 ◼   ► But man, I would absolutely pay for and switch to Google Photos if I felt like it got me

00:29:02 ◼   ► things that Picture Life didn't.

00:29:04 ◼   ► And right now it's getting me a search engine, but it's not getting me, I don't think, a

00:29:08 ◼   ► a lot of the other stuff that I really love,

00:29:09 ◼   ► like the Timehop.

00:29:10 ◼   ► - It'll get you like better face recognition

00:29:12 ◼   ► and it does some weird AI thing

00:29:14 ◼   ► where it composes a nice picture for you

00:29:16 ◼   ► and makes albums based on good stuff.

00:29:18 ◼   ► But anyway, you can get this, you can pay.

00:29:20 ◼   ► You can pay Google, you know,

00:29:21 ◼   ► it just goes towards your Google account storage.

00:29:22 ◼   ► If you pay for like terabyte of storage,

00:29:24 ◼   ► then it will back up whatever the hell you want.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Like, and that's the other thing that's a shame

00:29:28 ◼   ► about the asterisk, is people might dismiss it then,

00:29:31 ◼   ► the nerdy people listening say,

00:29:31 ◼   ► "Oh, well, I don't want it to recompress my images."

00:29:33 ◼   ► That's just for the free one.

00:29:35 ◼   ► If you pay Google money,

00:29:36 ◼   ► you could store whatever the heck you want

00:29:38 ◼   ► because they charge you for the amount of storage you use.

00:29:40 ◼   ► And the rates for storage are not, they're not cheap,

00:29:42 ◼   ► but they're cheaper than Apple still.

00:29:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's about half the price.

00:29:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, and as many of the competitors are,

00:29:48 ◼   ► as I went over last time,

00:29:49 ◼   ► Apple is still a little bit out of whack in the thing.

00:29:51 ◼   ► - Same as Dropbox, right?

00:29:53 ◼   ► 10 bucks a month for a terabyte?

00:29:54 ◼   ► That's Dropbox, right?

00:29:55 ◼   ► - I don't remember their pricing,

00:29:56 ◼   ► but Dropbox is still below Apple for the big,

00:29:59 ◼   ► especially for the big tier.

00:30:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:30:02 ◼   ► - And I have to tell you, I'm tempted by this Google thing

00:30:05 ◼   ► because the features it has, and more importantly,

00:30:07 ◼   ► the performance characteristics that I assume it has

00:30:10 ◼   ► based on all my experience with server-side stuff,

00:30:12 ◼   ► that it's like, look, it doesn't matter

00:30:14 ◼   ► how fast my computer is, because most of the magic

00:30:17 ◼   ► is happening on the server side.

00:30:18 ◼   ► It's sort of like why I use Gmail.

00:30:20 ◼   ► I have a ton of email, ton of filters.

00:30:22 ◼   ► All I ever see on my screen is one set of email things.

00:30:25 ◼   ► So it doesn't matter that this label or folder

00:30:28 ◼   ► or whatever has 60,000 emails in it.

00:30:31 ◼   ► I can switch to it and immediately see what's there,

00:30:34 ◼   ► because it just shows one screen full.

00:30:35 ◼   ► And I don't mind clicking next to go to the next screen full

00:30:38 ◼   ► as opposed to clicking something in Outlook

00:30:40 ◼   ► and watching it grind and beach ball my thing

00:30:41 ◼   ► so it can display a scrolling list view

00:30:44 ◼   ► with 60,000 email messages, right?

00:30:46 ◼   ► This is the advantage of server side versus client side.

00:30:48 ◼   ► The disadvantage is you don't get a nice scroll bar

00:30:50 ◼   ► to do it, but the advantage is everything

00:30:51 ◼   ► is always responsive.

00:30:52 ◼   ► So I would imagine that Google Photos, like Google Search,

00:30:57 ◼   ► would let me find all the pictures of a particular person

00:31:00 ◼   ► with its face recognition,

00:31:01 ◼   ► which I have to assume is superior to Apple's,

00:31:03 ◼   ► even if just in that it doesn't grind my computer to death

00:31:06 ◼   ► when it's detecting faces,

00:31:07 ◼   ► it grinds Google's computers to death

00:31:09 ◼   ► when it's detecting faces.

00:31:10 ◼   ► And same for all the other stuff

00:31:11 ◼   ► where you can just type in receipt

00:31:12 ◼   ► and it'll find all your receipts.

00:31:13 ◼   ► You can type in Sydney Opera House,

00:31:14 ◼   ► you can type in statue, you can type in grass,

00:31:17 ◼   ► like whatever, you know,

00:31:18 ◼   ► they have lots of smarts behind this

00:31:20 ◼   ► that are not going to be duplicated in a local computer.

00:31:23 ◼   ► It's like Google's giant computing cluster

00:31:25 ◼   ► and the fact that they share all the information

00:31:27 ◼   ► about image detection

00:31:28 ◼   ► and that it makes the whole system smarter and all that.

00:31:30 ◼   ► All of these are features I like

00:31:32 ◼   ► and their rates are cheaper than Apple

00:31:33 ◼   ► and they were saving the uncompressed stuff.

00:31:36 ◼   ► But for photos, I'm gonna give Apple's photos app,

00:31:39 ◼   ► despite it being super slow and everything,

00:31:41 ◼   ► a little bit more time to mature because this is the 1.0,

00:31:44 ◼   ► it's basically a complete rewrite.

00:31:46 ◼   ► So far it has been reliable,

00:31:49 ◼   ► if only incredibly slow and maddening.

00:31:52 ◼   ► And there's one update on my Apple photos complaints.

00:31:56 ◼   ► There's one new behavior that's really pissing me off.

00:31:59 ◼   ► In addition to being super slow

00:32:01 ◼   ► When I'm going through pictures of like hit the right arrow,

00:32:03 ◼   ► the left arrow, add a keyword,

00:32:05 ◼   ► hit the period key to favorite.

00:32:06 ◼   ► I'm trying to come up with like a nice keyboard only

00:32:08 ◼   ► workflow for sort of going through my pictures

00:32:10 ◼   ► after I take them to organize them and tag them.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Frequently I'll come upon one that I want to delete

00:32:15 ◼   ► 'cause it's crappy and I'm not doing like the one star thing

00:32:17 ◼   ► anymore, I just delete now 'cause I have just have fave

00:32:19 ◼   ► and non-fave, so if I see something that's one star,

00:32:21 ◼   ► just delete immediately.

00:32:22 ◼   ► Delete of course takes forever, fine, take forever,

00:32:25 ◼   ► sit there for, sometimes I count one, two, three, four,

00:32:30 ◼   ► Oh, there it went.

00:32:31 ◼   ► It deleted, right?

00:32:32 ◼   ► And then the next picture comes up.

00:32:34 ◼   ► And then I'll hit the arrow key or hit delete.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I'll hit the arrow key and then I'll see

00:32:40 ◼   ► the next picture I wanna delete.

00:32:41 ◼   ► And I'll hit delete.

00:32:43 ◼   ► And I'll look up at the screen

00:32:44 ◼   ► and I'll see what has happened is,

00:32:46 ◼   ► after I went to the next picture,

00:32:48 ◼   ► I deleted one and then I went to the next picture.

00:32:51 ◼   ► Now, like my delete, like iCloud has caught up

00:32:53 ◼   ► with my delete and it has moved sort of my cursor

00:32:56 ◼   ► from the picture I was looking at

00:32:58 ◼   ► to the one that was before the one I deleted.

00:33:00 ◼   ► So then whatever key I hit, like favoriting or whatever,

00:33:03 ◼   ► applies to the picture before the one I just deleted

00:33:05 ◼   ► instead of the next one.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Like it doesn't preserve my position,

00:33:09 ◼   ► my selection state in the thing

00:33:11 ◼   ► because the collection view like reshuffles

00:33:13 ◼   ► behind the scenes and I will find myself looking

00:33:14 ◼   ► at a picture I wasn't looking at before.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Maddening, like that's a potential for,

00:33:19 ◼   ► if someone was not paying enough attention,

00:33:23 ◼   ► they might not realize what happened.

00:33:24 ◼   ► They might not realize that you thought

00:33:25 ◼   ► you were on the next picture,

00:33:26 ◼   ► Really after you hit next picture it said no no no here you are on the picture before you were deleted

00:33:31 ◼   ► and you might not realize that you tagged that wrong or

00:33:33 ◼   ► deleted it or something else and if it happened to do that delete fast enough when you were looking down like I

00:33:38 ◼   ► Can imagine that being a data loss bug waiting to happen and stuff like that in addition to being super slow

00:33:44 ◼   ► It's like this is so slow and laggy that it is it is breaking the model of the UI like it's like outlook

00:33:50 ◼   ► 2011 all over again where the selection state is changing underneath my my cursor

00:33:55 ◼   ► So I'm really not liking the experience with photos

00:33:59 ◼   ► other than the fact that it is accepting all of my uploads

00:34:03 ◼   ► and presumably preserving them

00:34:05 ◼   ► and they're all in a cloud and blah, blah, blah.

00:34:07 ◼   ► - Well, and to me, that I think is the most important part.

00:34:10 ◼   ► If you have an Android phone and you use Google stuff,

00:34:15 ◼   ► then by all means use Google's photo thing.

00:34:18 ◼   ► That makes the most sense.

00:34:19 ◼   ► My most frequently used camera is my iPhone.

00:34:23 ◼   ► And the fact is that nothing integrates better

00:34:27 ◼   ► with my most frequently used camera

00:34:29 ◼   ► than Apple's Photo Storage thing.

00:34:31 ◼   ► And so Apple's Photo Storage thing would have to be

00:34:34 ◼   ► really bad for me to not use it

00:34:37 ◼   ► and to instead go over to something else.

00:34:40 ◼   ► Because the convenience aspect

00:34:42 ◼   ► is really incredibly powerful.

00:34:44 ◼   ► Of just having the integration,

00:34:46 ◼   ► having things like just instantly be over on my big computer

00:34:49 ◼   ► or on different devices.

00:34:50 ◼   ► - Well let's not say instantly,

00:34:52 ◼   ► because one of the complaints,

00:34:53 ◼   ► performance eventually becomes a feature deficit.

00:34:55 ◼   ► One of the complaints for people with large libraries

00:34:57 ◼   ► is you take a photo with your iPhone

00:34:59 ◼   ► and then you, maybe a couple seconds pass,

00:35:02 ◼   ► and then you wanna see that photo in your photos collection

00:35:06 ◼   ► and you go to photos and it's not there yet.

00:35:08 ◼   ► And why isn't it there yet?

00:35:09 ◼   ► You just took it.

00:35:10 ◼   ► Why is it not there yet?

00:35:11 ◼   ► Because you have a giant collection

00:35:12 ◼   ► and it takes a while to,

00:35:13 ◼   ► I don't know what the hell it's doing.

00:35:15 ◼   ► I don't think it's going anywhere.

00:35:16 ◼   ► You took it on the phone.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Surely it should show up in your photos collection,

00:35:19 ◼   ► but there's a lag if you have large photo collection.

00:35:21 ◼   ► And that's a leg that wasn't there before like this is one of my wife's complaints you turned on this iPhoto library

00:35:26 ◼   ► whatever thing

00:35:27 ◼   ► Because the photos are in her computer and because Apple doesn't understand how families work the photos have to be on one computer and blah

00:35:32 ◼   ► blah blah we've complained about this before so

00:35:34 ◼   ► She gets to have them on her phone and all it has done is made her camera on her phone less pleasant and made her

00:35:40 ◼   ► photo pickers in every single app way slower and so again 1.0

00:35:44 ◼   ► Hopefully this will be addressed

00:35:45 ◼   ► This is a perfect thing for them to do in iOS 9 which we'll talk about when we get to

00:35:49 ◼   ► WWDC predictions. So I'm gonna give the Apple one a chance, but I don't have many hang-ups about

00:35:54 ◼   ► Google Photos, especially the ones where I'm paying for the storage because I feel like that is a I

00:35:59 ◼   ► understand the relationship there. I give you money, you store my photos. I store more photos,

00:36:03 ◼   ► I give you more money, and I love all the features they have for all their searching, face detection, and organization,

00:36:09 ◼   ► and all that good stuff. So

00:36:12 ◼   ► Apple better get its act together.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Yeah, in a lot of ways

00:36:15 ◼   ► I feel like this is Google at its best because it's leveraging all of its machine learning,

00:36:19 ◼   ► all of its humongous server farms and whatnot in order to get something that's really very

00:36:24 ◼   ► impressive and really awesome to use as a consumer. So I'm curious to see where this

00:36:30 ◼   ► goes but I'll probably be checking it out at some point or another. With that said,

00:36:35 ◼   ► what else is awesome, Marco?

00:36:36 ◼   ► >> So our second sponsor this week is our friends, the nicest people in the world really,

00:36:41 ◼   ► our friends at Studio Neat.

00:36:42 ◼   ► >> Oh, they're the best.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Aren't they?

00:36:44 ◼   ► They're just, they're such nice guys, really.

00:36:46 ◼   ► I mean, they're genuinely nice people,

00:36:47 ◼   ► and they make really cool stuff.

00:36:48 ◼   ► So, studioneat.com/atp is where you go to see

00:36:53 ◼   ► all this cool stuff.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Studioneat.com/atp.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Use code ATP for 10% off anything in their store.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Now, order soon, because they're gonna probably

00:37:04 ◼   ► have a big rush for Father's Day, if I can take a guess,

00:37:06 ◼   ► because their stuff makes fantastic Father's Day

00:37:09 ◼   ► and even graduation gifts.

00:37:11 ◼   ► A lot of their stuff is cool iPhone things.

00:37:14 ◼   ► A lot of their stuff is cool stuff about drinks,

00:37:16 ◼   ► making drinks at home, Father's Day, graduation,

00:37:19 ◼   ► really big holidays for the kind of stuff they make.

00:37:22 ◼   ► They also have a new app, before I get into their stuff,

00:37:24 ◼   ► they have a new app for iPhone called Highball.

00:37:27 ◼   ► It's a free app and it's really big,

00:37:30 ◼   ► almost as a companion to their cocktail products.

00:37:33 ◼   ► When you download the app, you can tap the plus button

00:37:35 ◼   ► on the home screen, then add from library,

00:37:37 ◼   ► and then you can actually find special cocktail recipes

00:37:40 ◼   ► inspired by the three ATP hosts.

00:37:43 ◼   ► So really cool guys, they listen to our shows,

00:37:45 ◼   ► you know, cool inside jokes.

00:37:47 ◼   ► So check out their iPhone app, Highball.

00:37:49 ◼   ► Now, their regular products, I love this stuff,

00:37:51 ◼   ► I have a lot of their stuff.

00:37:52 ◼   ► They have the Glyph, which is an iPhone tripod mount,

00:37:56 ◼   ► and kind of like a built-in mini tripod.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Really great, very, very handy.

00:38:00 ◼   ► It came out a while ago, they've updated it

00:38:01 ◼   ► a couple times since then.

00:38:03 ◼   ► And the new one is adjustable, so it can work

00:38:05 ◼   ► with multiple phone generations, most likely.

00:38:07 ◼   ► They also have the Cosmonaut, which is an iPad stylus,

00:38:11 ◼   ► or iPhone stylus, which I've tried a bunch

00:38:13 ◼   ► of the various styli that exist for the touch screens.

00:38:16 ◼   ► The Cosmonaut is by far my favorite one.

00:38:18 ◼   ► It is so, so good.

00:38:19 ◼   ► Now, their cocktail products are really interesting too.

00:38:23 ◼   ► They have the Neat Ice Kit, and this is what we were

00:38:25 ◼   ► talking about a lot last time I sponsored, I believe.

00:38:28 ◼   ► The Neat Ice Kit lets you create crystal clear ice at home.

00:38:32 ◼   ► And this is another one of the things,

00:38:34 ◼   ► I've tried a couple of other things that attempt

00:38:36 ◼   ► to make clear ice various Kickstarter projects and stuff.

00:38:40 ◼   ► None of them have been as nicely working

00:38:43 ◼   ► and as easy to use as the Neat Ice Kit,

00:38:46 ◼   ► which I also have, and it's so much better.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And it's easy, it's friendly.

00:38:51 ◼   ► The Neat Ice Kit is very, very simple.

00:38:53 ◼   ► All you do is they have this cylinder of water

00:38:57 ◼   ► that you put in the freezer,

00:38:59 ◼   ► and then it gives you this solid rectangle of ice,

00:39:03 ◼   ► and one half of it is cloudy,

00:39:05 ◼   ► and one and a half of it is clear.

00:39:06 ◼   ► And so you take the included chisel

00:39:09 ◼   ► to just cut it down the middle basically,

00:39:12 ◼   ► and then you have a perfectly clear ice cube

00:39:14 ◼   ► that you can then cut and shape however you want

00:39:16 ◼   ► or just leave it as one giant cube.

00:39:17 ◼   ► It is really, it is so easy to use.

00:39:20 ◼   ► They also have the Simple Syrup Kit.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Now this is something, I make simple syrup all the time.

00:39:25 ◼   ► I make simple syrup in the summer mostly

00:39:28 ◼   ► for my iced coffee recipe, which I'll link to somewhere.

00:39:30 ◼   ► Simple syrup, you would think that making it without,

00:39:34 ◼   ► you know, making it yourself without a custom kit,

00:39:37 ◼   ► it's, you know, pretty straightforward.

00:39:38 ◼   ► You combine water and sugar and mix it up

00:39:40 ◼   ► and put it in a bottle somehow.

00:39:42 ◼   ► So you would think your product like this

00:39:43 ◼   ► wouldn't be necessary.

00:39:45 ◼   ► I cannot tell you how good this is.

00:39:47 ◼   ► I was smiling the whole time I was using it

00:39:49 ◼   ► because it's like, yeah, you can make simple syrup

00:39:51 ◼   ► without this, but there are parts of it that are annoying,

00:39:54 ◼   ► there are parts of it that are kinda hard,

00:39:56 ◼   ► kinda tricky to get right, and once you make it,

00:40:00 ◼   ► you still have to have some kind of container

00:40:02 ◼   ► to put it in and pour it out of.

00:40:04 ◼   ► And really, they nailed it.

00:40:07 ◼   ► Like every part of the simple syrup kit,

00:40:09 ◼   ► they completely nailed it.

00:40:11 ◼   ► The process of making it is simple.

00:40:14 ◼   ► They have this little jar that's labeled perfectly

00:40:16 ◼   ► for the ratios.

00:40:17 ◼   ► You really don't have to measure anything.

00:40:19 ◼   ► You just pour it in until it goes to the line.

00:40:21 ◼   ► You can swish it around with that, no utensils needed.

00:40:23 ◼   ► The pour spout that they have on this bottle is perfect.

00:40:27 ◼   ► It doesn't dribble, it doesn't leak.

00:40:29 ◼   ► You can shake it and nothing comes out.

00:40:31 ◼   ► It does, like it's, they thought of everything.

00:40:33 ◼   ► The bottle is exactly the right size

00:40:36 ◼   ► to fit on any fridge shelf.

00:40:38 ◼   ► They took every part of this process

00:40:40 ◼   ► and they made it way better, so much so

00:40:43 ◼   ► that I will never make simple syrup again

00:40:45 ◼   ► without using their product.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Like it's just so good.

00:40:48 ◼   ► This also makes a great gift.

00:40:50 ◼   ► Holidays, wedding gift, graduation, Father's Day,

00:40:52 ◼   ► whatever you want, this is great.

00:40:54 ◼   ► So, check out Studio Neat.

00:40:57 ◼   ► These are such cool things.

00:40:58 ◼   ► They're just cool products made by cool people.

00:41:02 ◼   ► I think I've tried most of their products now,

00:41:05 ◼   ► or even all of their products now,

00:41:07 ◼   ► and they're all great.

00:41:08 ◼   ► Like, I can't point to anything they've made

00:41:10 ◼   ► that's been a dud.

00:41:11 ◼   ► Check it out, really.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Great stuff, reasonably priced, great gifts

00:41:15 ◼   ► for fathers, jay, graduations, birthdays, whatever.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Studio neat dot com slash ATP.

00:41:21 ◼   ► That's studio neat dot com slash ATP,

00:41:24 ◼   ► and use coupon code ATP for 10% off

00:41:27 ◼   ► anything in their store.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Thanks a lot once again to Studio Neat for sponsoring our show.

00:41:30 ◼   ► Let me just pile on for two seconds.

00:41:32 ◼   ► One, love the Neat Ice Kit used all the time.

00:41:35 ◼   ► Two, you should check out the stop motion video they did for the Simple Syrup Kit.

00:41:39 ◼   ► It's just very, very well done and very clever.

00:41:41 ◼   ► And they had a blog post about it at some point or another about how they did it.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And that's also very interesting.

00:41:46 ◼   ► So you should check that out.

00:41:48 ◼   ► In other news, so apparently we know what Thunderbolt 3 is and it looks just like USB-C.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Not just like USB-C, there's an important difference that we'll get to in a bit, but

00:41:59 ◼   ► yes, if you didn't think it was confusing enough, now we have two different things that

00:42:06 ◼   ► use the same connector.

00:42:07 ◼   ► It's kind of like we finally got rid of the USB Type-A connector where it's symmetrical

00:42:12 ◼   ► on the outside but asymmetrical on the inside so you have to try three times to get it plugged

00:42:15 ◼   ► in the right way.

00:42:16 ◼   ► Finally, you know, we talked about the USB Type-C connector, that's gone, it goes in

00:42:19 ◼   ► either way, it's perfect, no more cabling problems.

00:42:22 ◼   ► We've now swapped that for plug in this adapter, plug it into the display.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Does it not work?

00:42:27 ◼   ► Oh, that must be the Thunderbolt one.

00:42:28 ◼   ► It doesn't work with MacBook one.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Try the other one.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Plug that one.

00:42:31 ◼   ► You have to try two different things to plug in.

00:42:33 ◼   ► It doesn't matter which way you plug it in, but you have no idea if the one you're using

00:42:36 ◼   ► is the right one for your device.

00:42:38 ◼   ► This will be a transitional period too, but it is a little bit frustrating that Apple

00:42:42 ◼   ► actually shipped machines with USB-C connectors that are not Thunderbolt 3, and so they'll

00:42:47 ◼   ► forever be this weird, not forever, but until they go away, they'll be these weird, weird

00:42:52 ◼   ► weird machine that has a connector that's not a Thunderbolt connector but it looks like

00:42:56 ◼   ► all the other machines that have a Thunderbolt connector.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Yeah, it is a little bit weird. Yeah, it does seem like kind of a kind of

00:43:02 ◼   ► weird timing to have released the MacBook One because if you look here, it's a brand

00:43:07 ◼   ► new computer, this brand new line. There was not like massive pressure for them to release

00:43:13 ◼   ► the MacBook One when they did, you know, and it seems like six months away from when Skylake

00:43:21 ◼   ► will be out most likely from when Thunderbolt 3,

00:43:25 ◼   ► which will come with Skylake in all likelihood,

00:43:27 ◼   ► when that will be available.

00:43:28 ◼   ► So it seems like they released the MacBook One

00:43:30 ◼   ► like six months too early.

00:43:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, they should have just made a retina MacBook Air.

00:43:34 ◼   ► We talked about that before, and like,

00:43:35 ◼   ► oh, I would have liked that machine better, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:37 ◼   ► But now forget about who would like what machine better.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Just in terms of product line planning and succession

00:43:41 ◼   ► and like transition between ports,

00:43:43 ◼   ► it would have been better overall for everybody now,

00:43:45 ◼   ► knowing what we now know about Skylake availability

00:43:48 ◼   ► and Thunderbolt 3 to have made retina MacBook Airs,

00:43:53 ◼   ► like in the exact form they are in now.

00:43:55 ◼   ► Same connector, same everything, same battery,

00:43:57 ◼   ► just put a retina screen on it,

00:43:58 ◼   ► put the lower power chips, right?

00:44:00 ◼   ► 'Cause that would be, it would be a more boring machine,

00:44:03 ◼   ► but then you'd have a clean transition front.

00:44:05 ◼   ► These were the old world laptops,

00:44:06 ◼   ► and then here are the new ones,

00:44:08 ◼   ► and they all have Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C connectors,

00:44:11 ◼   ► and it's all uniform.

00:44:12 ◼   ► This machine, this MacBook One is looking more and more

00:44:15 ◼   ► like this weird sort of transitional platypus thing

00:44:20 ◼   ► that is, you know, and like, and you can't,

00:44:24 ◼   ► you can't tell the future is like, oh,

00:44:25 ◼   ► they should have known exactly what Intel's availability be.

00:44:28 ◼   ► It's like the schedule has slipped

00:44:31 ◼   ► when all these things were planned many months or years ago,

00:44:34 ◼   ► you can't exactly predict the future.

00:44:36 ◼   ► So it was kind of a shame.

00:44:38 ◼   ► We'll get over it, but yeah,

00:44:40 ◼   ► that's what happens when schedules slip,

00:44:42 ◼   ► you end up doing strange things.

00:44:44 ◼   ► And apparently this supports 4K displays,

00:44:49 ◼   ► two of them in fact, is that right?

00:44:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's enough bandwidth to support two 4Ks at 60 hertz

00:44:55 ◼   ► which if you do enough tricks,

00:44:58 ◼   ► that is also enough bandwidth to support

00:44:59 ◼   ► a single 5K display over one cable.

00:45:02 ◼   ► - But the weird thing is they keep saying

00:45:04 ◼   ► it's DisplayPort 1.2, not 1.3.

00:45:06 ◼   ► And I don't remember the limitations of the spec,

00:45:09 ◼   ► but I mean, does that all fit together?

00:45:11 ◼   ► a single 5K display over a display.

00:45:14 ◼   ► I guess it's ganging two DisplayPort 1.2 connections

00:45:17 ◼   ► over the single cable, right?

00:45:18 ◼   ► Like technically speaking, that's what it's doing.

00:45:20 ◼   ► You don't have to have two wires connected anymore,

00:45:22 ◼   ► but under the covers, do you imagine

00:45:24 ◼   ► that it is basically two DisplayPort 1.2 channels?

00:45:27 ◼   ► - That's certainly how the little information

00:45:30 ◼   ► we have about it, that's how it reads to me.

00:45:32 ◼   ► That's what it's doing, that it is doing

00:45:34 ◼   ► dual DisplayPort 1.2s, 'cause it can do 4K at 60 hertz

00:45:38 ◼   ► using DisplayPort 1.2, it can do two of those.

00:45:41 ◼   ► So that certainly does seem like that's what it's doing.

00:45:44 ◼   ► - This is essentially what everyone's been talking about

00:45:47 ◼   ► since the '80s or the '70s even.

00:45:50 ◼   ► Someday there will be one interconnect to rule everything.

00:45:53 ◼   ► That was some of the early hype about FireWire,

00:45:55 ◼   ► if you can believe it.

00:45:56 ◼   ► Those of us who were around back before FireWire

00:45:58 ◼   ► was actually a thing.

00:45:59 ◼   ► It was like, I know you got all these connections

00:46:01 ◼   ► in the back of your Mac,

00:46:03 ◼   ► but this one bus is gonna do everything.

00:46:05 ◼   ► Forget about USB, that's just for mice and keyboards.

00:46:08 ◼   ► This FireWire thing, because it's like peer-to-peer

00:46:10 ◼   ► and daisy chainable and doesn't require the then much weaker CPUs to do work to get data

00:46:17 ◼   ► along.

00:46:18 ◼   ► It's the best of all possible worlds and it's serial instead of parallel and the connectors

00:46:21 ◼   ► are small and they're easy to plug and unplug and you know it didn't quite work out for

00:46:24 ◼   ► FireWire but the slow consolidation of all the differently shaped holes in the sides

00:46:29 ◼   ► of our computers into a single kind of port.

00:46:33 ◼   ► There's only one kind of hole and we can have multiple ones of them and it's uniform and

00:46:36 ◼   ► they can do everything.

00:46:38 ◼   ► what we're finally finally getting to and I think it was an incredibly wise

00:46:42 ◼   ► smart forward-looking perhaps necessary move for Thunderbolt to to do both of

00:46:49 ◼   ► the things that did the first thing it did was we're not gonna make a new

00:46:52 ◼   ► connector for Thunderbolt we're gonna piggyback on many display port because

00:46:55 ◼   ► by the way we support display so it was like you can connect your drives but

00:46:59 ◼   ► also your display and also kind of your docking station or whatever it's kind of

00:47:02 ◼   ► like a parasite or one of those little, not lamprey, not eel, but the actual word for

00:47:10 ◼   ► the little sucker fishy thing that stick on the side of a shark.

00:47:12 ◼   ► We're going to hitch a ride on an already existing successful port.

00:47:16 ◼   ► And so they hitch a ride on Mini DisplayPort because in that time Thunderbolt was presenting

00:47:21 ◼   ► itself as a cool bus to connect your high speed stuff, but also your display, and in

00:47:26 ◼   ► fact both at once.

00:47:27 ◼   ► And now it has found a much more attractive host.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Forget about Mini DisplayPort.

00:47:32 ◼   ► USB-C, it's delicious. It's an awesome connector. We love it. We're super jealous of that symmetrical connector. It's smaller

00:47:37 ◼   ► It's going to be everywhere we get on that train then finally we can legitimately have computers that just have

00:47:44 ◼   ► one or more hopefully more on the pro machines

00:47:47 ◼   ► USB-C type connector that literally does everything that the computer can do

00:47:52 ◼   ► With a series of adapters and all sorts of other stuff, so that's still a little bit annoying

00:47:58 ◼   ► But it is the the future that we expected the only difference is

00:48:01 ◼   ► It is not one magical bus instead it is one magical wire over which we shove all the existing old stuff

00:48:08 ◼   ► So display port is still going over there and you've got USB going over it and you've also got what you know

00:48:13 ◼   ► The the PCI Express lanes for your graphics card or whatever other stuff you have externally so it's it's one cable

00:48:19 ◼   ► But it's lots of different protocols and sort of channels and buses all going over that one cable

00:48:24 ◼   ► Which I guess is better than nothing

00:48:27 ◼   ► It's still not quite the uniform world where we imagined everything would be speaking one

00:48:30 ◼   ► protocol and they'd all be jumping on this one big beautiful bus that just powers everything,

00:48:35 ◼   ► but maybe we'll get there someday.

00:48:38 ◼   ► And it is definitely an improvement over what we have today, which is, you know, Thunderbolt,

00:48:43 ◼   ► first of all, I've, and I think you agree, I've never liked the amazing DisplayPort as

00:48:47 ◼   ► a port, as a physical port, as a cable end.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Better than SCSI.

00:48:51 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's not a very high bar.

00:48:55 ◼   ► - I would say it's also better than USB Type-A

00:48:57 ◼   ► because it is smaller and externally asymmetrical.

00:49:00 ◼   ► - Well, maybe, but it also doesn't feel

00:49:03 ◼   ► like it's very securely inserted most of the time.

00:49:05 ◼   ► It feels like it can slide out partially very, very easily,

00:49:09 ◼   ► whereas USB has always gripped in there pretty well.

00:49:11 ◼   ► - Well, I can't tell if that's like,

00:49:13 ◼   ► because I have, there are some USB Type-A things

00:49:17 ◼   ► that feel very secure and some that feel loose

00:49:19 ◼   ► or get looser over time, so it's hard to tell

00:49:21 ◼   ► if that is a construction thing

00:49:23 ◼   ► or it's the fault of the port itself.

00:49:25 ◼   ► I believe it's possible to have a secure-feeling Thunderbolt

00:49:28 ◼   ► port, just like I know that it's possible to have

00:49:30 ◼   ► a secure-feeling USB Type-A port and also a really loose one

00:49:34 ◼   ► that feels crappy.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Well, maybe.

00:49:37 ◼   ► But regardless, I've never felt a Thunderbolt port

00:49:39 ◼   ► that felt really secure to me.

00:49:41 ◼   ► And the kind of stuff you're plugging in there,

00:49:43 ◼   ► usually it's stuff like advanced drive arrays or a network

00:49:48 ◼   ► adapter for the laptop or something.

00:49:50 ◼   ► It's things where you really don't want it to just

00:49:53 ◼   ► randomly fall out as you're using it,

00:49:55 ◼   ► like that would be inconvenient or cause problems.

00:49:58 ◼   ► So it is, that always kind of makes me feel

00:50:01 ◼   ► a little weird about it.

00:50:02 ◼   ► But USB-C really like locks in places.

00:50:05 ◼   ► USB-C is a very secure feeling connector.

00:50:08 ◼   ► It does not at all have that problem,

00:50:10 ◼   ► as far as I could tell from my brief time with one.

00:50:13 ◼   ► So that I think is a massive improvement.

00:50:17 ◼   ► You know, also now we have the 5K issue fairly solved,

00:50:21 ◼   ► it looks like.

00:50:23 ◼   ► so that also helps.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Again, I think though you're right

00:50:26 ◼   ► that the problem is now the complexity of,

00:50:31 ◼   ► well, this thing can be plugged into this USB-C port,

00:50:34 ◼   ► but not that USB-C port,

00:50:36 ◼   ► and there's no visual way to identify which is which,

00:50:38 ◼   ► and you're gonna have--

00:50:39 ◼   ► - Is it a USB-C port?

00:50:40 ◼   ► What is the, how would you even call the port now?

00:50:43 ◼   ► Because is it the Thunderbolt 3 port?

00:50:46 ◼   ► Do you call it by the name of the highest speed bus

00:50:48 ◼   ► that can run over a wire that you connect into that port?

00:50:51 ◼   ► It's weird.

00:50:52 ◼   ► Like when the presumed Skylake MacBook Pros come out with ports whose connector is the

00:50:59 ◼   ► shape of the USB Type-C connector, will all those ports be called Thunderbolt ports?

00:51:04 ◼   ► Will we call them all USB ports?

00:51:07 ◼   ► Will we call them anything different when two DisplayPort 1.2 things change to two DisplayPort

00:51:13 ◼   ► 1.3s and you can have four 4K displays on some future machine?

00:51:18 ◼   ► Is it still a Thunderbolt 3 port or is it a Thunderbolt 3.1 port?

00:51:21 ◼   ► Like names become meaningless. It is just a wire over which we multiplex all sorts of

00:51:26 ◼   ► signals. The standards and protocols of those signals advance over time and the maximum

00:51:31 ◼   ► throughput of the wire itself advances over time. But we just keep calling them, maybe

00:51:35 ◼   ► we'll just call them ports. Like maybe we'll just, our grandkids will just be like, how

00:51:39 ◼   ► many ports does your computer have and how fast do those ports go? And it becomes less

00:51:43 ◼   ► important to have a name for it. I don't even know.

00:51:46 ◼   ► But it's gonna make it very difficult for everybody,

00:51:50 ◼   ► especially non-super-informed geeks like we hope we are.

00:51:54 ◼   ► But it's gonna be a big problem for everybody,

00:51:57 ◼   ► where like, okay, I have a computer

00:51:59 ◼   ► that has this port on it.

00:52:00 ◼   ► I want to buy this peripheral.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Or I'm out of ports, I wanna buy a hub

00:52:05 ◼   ► to give me more ports.

00:52:07 ◼   ► And then half your devices stop working,

00:52:09 ◼   ► 'cause it's a USB-C hub,

00:52:10 ◼   ► and half your devices are Thunderbolt.

00:52:11 ◼   ► And you have no way to know that, really, ahead of time.

00:52:15 ◼   ► Things, right now, you can look at the ports that you have

00:52:19 ◼   ► and you can look at devices and cables

00:52:20 ◼   ► and peripherals and hubs, and you just know,

00:52:24 ◼   ► oh, this is the shape port,

00:52:26 ◼   ► I have two of those on my computer,

00:52:27 ◼   ► I can plug that into that and it will probably work.

00:52:30 ◼   ► - Use your skills learned on a shape sorter

00:52:32 ◼   ► when you were a toddler.

00:52:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:52:34 ◼   ► - Right, like in this new world where we have this,

00:52:37 ◼   ► we have one port that is most likely

00:52:40 ◼   ► going to be very common, and there's already tons

00:52:45 ◼   ► tons of cables and hubs and devices on the market for USB-C now. There's already tons

00:52:52 ◼   ► of them and all those hubs that exist now that everyone's buying now with their MacBook

00:52:57 ◼   ► 1s, they're gonna, you know, in two years they're still gonna have that. They're

00:53:00 ◼   ► gonna have a different laptop maybe and it's not gonna work with half their stuff. It's

00:53:04 ◼   ► gonna be a weird situation that I'm not sure is a good thing overall.

00:53:09 ◼   ► >> Well, as people in the chat room are pointing out, like, and as Intel has been pushing with

00:53:14 ◼   ► technologies that is trying to attach to Skylake or make part of the same sort of

00:53:19 ◼   ► push for new products we talked about in past shows, the whole idea of wireless

00:53:23 ◼   ► connectivity which maybe isn't here yet, maybe isn't up to snuff for Apple

00:53:29 ◼   ► standards yet, but going to a uniform connector everywhere with different

00:53:35 ◼   ► protocols put over it is an improvement over the status quo and eventually you

00:53:38 ◼   ► would imagine that the things that can be wireless sort of high speed, high

00:53:42 ◼   ► bandwidth near field low power wireless can we get that to the point where the

00:53:49 ◼   ► ports just stop being used for anything except for maybe power you know sort of

00:53:55 ◼   ► the zero port thing that we talked about with it with the MacBook one that's not

00:54:00 ◼   ► I don't think that far in the future in the order of you know the good old five

00:54:05 ◼   ► to ten years thing so I think this is a step up from where we were we'll just

00:54:11 ◼   ► deal with the confusion and what comes out on the other side of it is not a final unification

00:54:16 ◼   ► on a single protocol on a single wire but rather the slow deterioration of the wire

00:54:21 ◼   ► is an important thing that you plug into your devices for anything other than charging.

00:54:24 ◼   ► I mean we're already there with iOS devices, we've just convinced the entire world you

00:54:28 ◼   ► don't plug anything into this thing except for a cable to charge it.

00:54:33 ◼   ► Everything else you do with it you do wirelessly.

00:54:35 ◼   ► Even though that's not technically true you can plug all sorts of things into it.

00:54:38 ◼   ► I think people like the idea of the wireless stuff, even as flaky and as unreliable as

00:54:43 ◼   ► it is now.

00:54:44 ◼   ► New versions of Bluetooth, near fields for the Apple Pay stuff, future protocols that

00:54:50 ◼   ► do similar things for displaying, doing air, what is it, air display?

00:54:55 ◼   ► What the hell is that called?

00:54:57 ◼   ► Airplay.

00:54:58 ◼   ► Airplay, doing airplay over different protocols.

00:54:59 ◼   ► They'll keep calling it airplay, but whatever the weird wireless high definition display

00:55:05 ◼   ► standard that Intel comes up with several years from now. Building that in

00:55:10 ◼   ► instead of doing it the way Apple does it now with H.264 compression over a

00:55:13 ◼   ► regular old Wi-Fi, like that I think is the the long-term end state of this. But

00:55:18 ◼   ► in the meantime I am very excited about a future line of computers period, not

00:55:24 ◼   ► just laptops, but I'm excited about a new trashcan Mac Pro with a bunch of

00:55:29 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 3 ports on the back, whatever the hell you want to call it, like just

00:55:33 ◼   ► the back of this machine will just be bristling with little tiny USB 3D shaped holes even

00:55:38 ◼   ► more than there are Thunderbolt ports and it'll have more capabilities and it will be

00:55:45 ◼   ► less of a hassle to plug things into it.

00:55:47 ◼   ► This is the final point on Thunderbolt 3.

00:55:49 ◼   ► They've finally seen the light on another thing which is the stupid Thunderbolt cables

00:55:54 ◼   ► that cost 50 bucks because they have chips in the connectors and it makes the connectors

00:55:57 ◼   ► really long and like one inch long stiff part that can't bend because that's where the chip

00:56:01 ◼   ► is and they actually get warm when you use them. They have a standard for passive wires.

00:56:05 ◼   ► It only goes half the speed, 20 gigabits instead of 40, although that half speed, that's the

00:56:09 ◼   ► maximum speed of the current Thunderbolt 2, isn't it? 20?

00:56:12 ◼   ► I'll take that. Right. So basically for the current speed that

00:56:16 ◼   ► you have now, you can get cheap, flexible wires that don't heat up when you use them

00:56:22 ◼   ► with no chips in them, and you get 20 gigabits. And so that's great. This is the fastest turnaround

00:56:28 ◼   ► time I've ever seen on a interconnect standard learning from all the mistakes

00:56:32 ◼   ► the previous iteration of this interconnect standard made because first

00:56:35 ◼   ► of all Thunderbolt's already up to version 3 and it's like barely used and

00:56:38 ◼   ► only used on Apple computers and it is already like correcting all of its past

00:56:42 ◼   ► mistakes. Better connector, piggybacking on USB, a passive thing for people who

00:56:46 ◼   ► don't care while still pushing the envelope of like actually we have double

00:56:52 ◼   ► that speed if you're going to use the chip connector things or whatever so I'm

00:56:55 ◼   ► I'm really excited about next year's crop of Macs,

00:56:58 ◼   ► one of which I may actually buy

00:57:00 ◼   ► if my 2008 Mac Pro lasts that long.

00:57:04 ◼   ► - You know, I wonder,

00:57:06 ◼   ► because they're attaching Thunderbolt to USB,

00:57:11 ◼   ► and we know that Apple is very unlikely,

00:57:14 ◼   ► extremely unlikely, to ship a computer where like,

00:57:18 ◼   ► these ports are USB 3, but these ports are USB 2,

00:57:21 ◼   ► like they're just gonna go all out on one or the other.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Thunderbolt requires direct PCI lanes

00:57:27 ◼   ► right from the chipset, and it's most likely,

00:57:31 ◼   ► I would imagine, I don't know offhand,

00:57:32 ◼   ► but I would imagine it's much more expensive

00:57:34 ◼   ► to have a Thunderbolt port on a motherboard,

00:57:36 ◼   ► on a computer than a USB port.

00:57:38 ◼   ► It might not be possible to have more than two USB-C ports

00:57:44 ◼   ► on anything but a Mac Pro,

00:57:46 ◼   ► just because of the chipset limitations.

00:57:47 ◼   ► So, look at the iMacs today.

00:57:50 ◼   ► iMacs have four USB ports in the back.

00:57:52 ◼   ► Are they gonna have four USB-C ports on the next version?

00:57:55 ◼   ► I kinda doubt it, because I would doubt

00:57:59 ◼   ► that whatever chipsets Intel uses

00:58:00 ◼   ► for the consumer level stuff,

00:58:02 ◼   ► they might not support that many lanes

00:58:03 ◼   ► for Thunderbolt to use.

00:58:05 ◼   ► - I think they listed the chipsets.

00:58:06 ◼   ► Like they were gonna make one super low power one.

00:58:08 ◼   ► This is a lot of people writing in

00:58:09 ◼   ► to explain the MacBook One,

00:58:10 ◼   ► although it doesn't really make sense

00:58:12 ◼   ► because the MacBook One doesn't use Thunderbolt 3.

00:58:13 ◼   ► But anyway, they're gonna have one low power chipset

00:58:15 ◼   ► that can only support one of these ports, right?

00:58:18 ◼   ► The whole idea is like, we're only gonna support one,

00:58:20 ◼   ► but it is a true Thunderbolt 3 port

00:58:21 ◼   ► It does everything on, you know, it's for the MacBook One,

00:58:24 ◼   ► it's a classic machine, and it really only does support one.

00:58:26 ◼   ► So yeah, you could have a second one that, like you said,

00:58:28 ◼   ► is, well, this one isn't Thunderbolt.

00:58:30 ◼   ► I know it looks the same, but this one is actually

00:58:31 ◼   ► just plain old USB.

00:58:33 ◼   ► They didn't have, with the current MacBook One,

00:58:36 ◼   ► they didn't have that problem.

00:58:37 ◼   ► You could have made them both identical,

00:58:38 ◼   ► but with the new one, with Thunderbolt 3,

00:58:39 ◼   ► you can have one Thunderbolt 3 port with this chipset,

00:58:42 ◼   ► because that's all we have the lanes for,

00:58:43 ◼   ► and then you can have other, like, plain USB ports,

00:58:45 ◼   ► which Apple may or may not do.

00:58:47 ◼   ► But then the next step up,

00:58:48 ◼   ► with the sort of better laptop things,

00:58:50 ◼   ► I think it was like,

00:58:52 ◼   ► now you can have two Thunderbolt 3 ports.

00:58:55 ◼   ► - Do you know if that will qualify for the MacBook Air?

00:58:57 ◼   ► - The MacBook what?

00:58:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:59:00 ◼   ► I like it.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Do we think that this machine is still gonna be a thing?

00:59:03 ◼   ► Not without a retina screen.

00:59:05 ◼   ► I don't see that living.

00:59:05 ◼   ► I don't see a 26 new iteration of the MacBook Air

00:59:08 ◼   ► coming in 2016 unless they put a retina screen in it.

00:59:10 ◼   ► And I'm not entirely convinced they're gonna do that yet.

00:59:13 ◼   ► But yeah, and so you're right.

00:59:16 ◼   ► They will be faced with this problem,

00:59:17 ◼   ► especially for the iMac.

00:59:18 ◼   ► 'Cause the iMac, you don't have the excuse of like,

00:59:19 ◼   ► Well, because the iMac you could just basically put an internal hub inside there and have

00:59:23 ◼   ► one of the Thunderbolt 3 things branching out into basically an internal USB hub and

00:59:28 ◼   ► then you have one, I mean they're still faced with the same problem.

00:59:30 ◼   ► You're gonna have a bunch of connectors that are all shaped the same, one of which has

00:59:33 ◼   ► a little different symbol painted on it and tiny paint that no one can actually read because

00:59:36 ◼   ► it's behind the computer and nobody can see back there because it's dark, right?

00:59:39 ◼   ► But if you swivel it towards you it'll light up.

00:59:41 ◼   ► Oh god.

00:59:42 ◼   ► Yeah, well not on the Mac Pro, the iMac, right?

00:59:45 ◼   ► They have plenty of room, they have plenty of room inside the iMac to have five ports

00:59:49 ◼   ► on the back of it. One of them is going to be like the good port, like the Thunderbolt

00:59:53 ◼   ► port and all the rest of them are going to be these are just plain old USB. And they

00:59:56 ◼   ► can do that with a quote unquote two port chipset from Intel, right? Or just like I

01:00:01 ◼   ► said, they could have two Thunderbolt three ports and then five USB, but not that Apple

01:00:07 ◼   ► would ever do this because they're so stingy with ports, but then five USB ports just running

01:00:10 ◼   ► off of like a plain old USB three control. Like they technologically, this is all possible

01:00:14 ◼   ► and all it comes down to is the confusion factor. And on the back of the iMac, I think

01:00:18 ◼   ► if you separated them, even though they're the same shape, if you separated them from

01:00:21 ◼   ► each other, like if you had a bunch in a row and then a big space on the other ones, or

01:00:25 ◼   ► even put them on separate sides of the machine, I don't know. I feel like if I had to make

01:00:29 ◼   ► the choice, I would rather have more ports, even if some of them are only differentiated

01:00:33 ◼   ► by a stenciled symbol like laser etched onto the aluminum. That's what I would want, but

01:00:37 ◼   ► I'm not entirely sure that that's what Apple is going to want. I would imagine Apple is

01:00:41 ◼   ► going to put a smaller number of ports on it and just, you know, deal with the short-term

01:00:47 ◼   ► griping. Oh yeah, I mean if you want a lot of ports of various mixing and matching

01:00:52 ◼   ► of things you're definitely looking at the wrong brand of computers. And the Mac Pro,

01:00:55 ◼   ► you know, they'll do use whatever crazy chipset that has the most insane

01:01:00 ◼   ► number of PCI Express lanes and they'll put as many ports on the back of that

01:01:03 ◼   ► thing as they can and that'll just continue in its current form but the

01:01:07 ◼   ► shape and size of the ports in the back will shrink. Who knows, maybe they could

01:01:10 ◼   ► even add ports to that thing. On the Mac Pro that is the only model I can actually

01:01:13 ◼   ► imagine them saying, "These are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, blank space, these two are plain

01:01:19 ◼   ► old USB-C, connect your mouse and keyboard here."

01:01:22 ◼   ► Because why the hell not?

01:01:23 ◼   ► Like they're all so tiny, there's so much stuff inside that computer, it wouldn't be

01:01:27 ◼   ► a big deal to do that.

01:01:29 ◼   ► And it would free up like the good ports for your crazy multi-SSD disk arrays or whatever

01:01:34 ◼   ► the hell you're connecting to it.

01:01:36 ◼   ► And you still won't buy one.

01:01:37 ◼   ► I might, you know, I've got to buy a new computer eventually in theory.

01:01:41 ◼   ► On an infinite time scale.

01:01:42 ◼   ► - Oh God. - I don't know.

01:01:44 ◼   ► That one terabyte SSD really did give this Mac new life.

01:01:48 ◼   ► I do not, when I sit down in front of this computer now,

01:01:50 ◼   ► the only thing I notice is that, you know,

01:01:52 ◼   ► my wife's screen is better than mine.

01:01:53 ◼   ► But other than that, it feels great.

01:01:55 ◼   ► - I suspect you're gonna keep using it

01:01:57 ◼   ► until it drops OS support for the latest OS.

01:02:00 ◼   ► - That would probably do it.

01:02:02 ◼   ► I'm kind of glad that I've just been under the wire

01:02:05 ◼   ► for the few updates and they haven't even been

01:02:07 ◼   ► advancing that.

01:02:08 ◼   ► The last few OSes have all not changed

01:02:10 ◼   ► the hardware requirements.

01:02:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, they cut off Merlin's old Mac Pro

01:02:13 ◼   ► and then just stopped cutting off old Mac Pros.

01:02:14 ◼   ► - That's right, that was the last one in the door

01:02:16 ◼   ► and then it's like, that's it.

01:02:18 ◼   ► Everything else is 64-bit Intel, you're good to go.

01:02:20 ◼   ► - Exactly.

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01:03:33 ◼   ► and they transition to a reading lens near the bottom.

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01:03:38 ◼   ► to do this kind of thing.

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01:03:47 ◼   ► progressive technology on the market today with higher precision and a larger field of vision

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01:05:44 ◼   ► show once again.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Excellent. So is anything going on next week?

01:05:49 ◼   ► From the late breaking rumors, it seems like a lot less is going on than we thought.

01:05:52 ◼   ► You want to tell us what you're talking about there, Jon?

01:05:56 ◼   ► Well, I always list that this is the WOC prediction section and have this list of like the hardware

01:06:00 ◼   ► and software and things we're going to talk about and the late breaking story from the

01:06:03 ◼   ► York Times is what seems like the final in a series of stories about the ever-rumored

01:06:09 ◼   ► Apple TV replacement that was like, "Oh, it has a new remote.

01:06:13 ◼   ► It's coming.

01:06:14 ◼   ► It's going to have an SDK.

01:06:15 ◼   ► Apple is working with companies to provide a way for you to watch first-run shows by

01:06:20 ◼   ► paying them money.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Like the Apple TV dream is going to come true for everyone except for Gene Munster because

01:06:25 ◼   ► it's not an actual television set."

01:06:27 ◼   ► And then the final one, posted in the New York Times shortly before recording began,

01:06:31 ◼   ► was, "Oh, looks like Apple TV,

01:06:33 ◼   ► the new Apple TV is not gonna be a WDC after all."

01:06:35 ◼   ► This follows on the previous story, which was like,

01:06:38 ◼   ► "Hmm, looks like Apple's having trouble

01:06:39 ◼   ► setting up all those content deals that it wants to set up."

01:06:42 ◼   ► And they were like, "Well, even without the content deals,

01:06:44 ◼   ► they can release new hardware.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Still, the new remote might be cool

01:06:49 ◼   ► and they can always release the hardware now

01:06:51 ◼   ► and then later on when they finally get all these deals

01:06:53 ◼   ► ironed out with all these content owners,

01:06:55 ◼   ► then your hardware that you have would get better."

01:06:58 ◼   ► But if this rumor is to be believed,

01:07:00 ◼   ► no new Apple TV hardware, no Apple TV SDK,

01:07:04 ◼   ► off the menu for WWDC.

01:07:05 ◼   ► Again, it seems like the past three years

01:07:08 ◼   ► that the Apple TV has been like, I don't know, they could,

01:07:11 ◼   ► the current one is really old.

01:07:13 ◼   ► And well, like this one was like,

01:07:14 ◼   ► oh, they did a price drop on the old one.

01:07:16 ◼   ► That means a new one is coming

01:07:17 ◼   ► and we were all ready for it and no.

01:07:19 ◼   ► And so I obviously entirely pessimistically believe

01:07:22 ◼   ► these rumors that there will be no Apple TV.

01:07:24 ◼   ► I hope I'm wrong and I'm really excited

01:07:26 ◼   ► pleasantly surprised because my current Apple TV is flaking out big time and I've switched

01:07:31 ◼   ► to using TiVo for Netflix. That's how far it's gone. So yeah, what do you guys think

01:07:35 ◼   ► about that? Are you basically crossing off the Apple TV in your hearts?

01:07:38 ◼   ► Well, I had already kind of done that because at the recommendation of Dan Morin, and I

01:07:45 ◼   ► think we talked about this on the show, I got an Amazon Fire TV stick and I love it.

01:07:50 ◼   ► It is the first thing I turn to to do any sort of media consumption when I'm trying

01:07:55 ◼   ► to do that at home or when I'm traveling, if I choose to take it with me. It has been

01:08:00 ◼   ► far more reliable than my Apple TV has been. It works really, really well. Netflix is great

01:08:07 ◼   ► on it. Plex actually exists on it, which is wonderful, and that works really well. So

01:08:13 ◼   ► I rarely use my Apple TV anymore, but the only thing I use it for is for AirPlay, like

01:08:19 ◼   ► we were talking about earlier. And even then, in a pinch, I can do that using a really hacky

01:08:26 ◼   ► third-party app on the Fire TV stick. So I would love to see a new Apple TV and see what

01:08:32 ◼   ► they're going to do with it, but I don't know. I went from loving my Apple TV to kind of

01:08:38 ◼   ► not really caring about it in the span of about a year. Now, maybe this is all DiscoveryD

01:08:42 ◼   ► issues masquer- or, you know, this is DiscoveryD issues causing me to hate it, and it's really

01:08:47 ◼   ► not the Apple TV at all, but one way or another,

01:08:51 ◼   ► I just haven't really cared about the Apple TV in a while.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Now Marco, you had just posted something recently

01:08:55 ◼   ► about yours not working for the 8 millionth time,

01:08:57 ◼   ► is that right?

01:08:59 ◼   ► - First of all, it's hilarious that now

01:09:01 ◼   ► we are all Gene Munster-ing Apple.

01:09:04 ◼   ► Now everyone's like, "Oh, when are you gonna do

01:09:05 ◼   ► "the Apple TV?"

01:09:06 ◼   ► It's a slight variation, but it's pretty much

01:09:08 ◼   ► the same thing.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Second of all, I think it's hilarious that

01:09:11 ◼   ► the A5 just won't die.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Like, it's an, the A5, how this chip that was released

01:09:17 ◼   ► in 2011 is now still in the non-retina iPad Mini,

01:09:21 ◼   ► which is still for sale, the current generation

01:09:26 ◼   ► of iPod Touch, which is still for sale,

01:09:29 ◼   ► the current generation of the Apple TV,

01:09:31 ◼   ► which is now also still for sale,

01:09:34 ◼   ► the A5, and we don't even know what the watch is,

01:09:36 ◼   ► maybe the watch is using an A5.

01:09:38 ◼   ► This chip will not die, and developers keep having

01:09:41 ◼   ► to support it forever.

01:09:42 ◼   ► But anyway, and I think that's probably, honestly,

01:09:46 ◼   ► there's no Apple TV.

01:09:48 ◼   ► I think the A5 became sentient and took over at Apple

01:09:53 ◼   ► and has some dirt on Tim or something

01:09:55 ◼   ► and is just holding the company hostage now.

01:09:58 ◼   ► That's why there's no new Apple TV.

01:09:59 ◼   ► - Of all the things that are wrong

01:10:01 ◼   ► with the current Apple TV puck,

01:10:03 ◼   ► the incredibly weak CPU is actually, I think,

01:10:07 ◼   ► not one of them because it's obviously strong enough

01:10:09 ◼   ► to handle full resolution HD video,

01:10:11 ◼   ► which is basically what's expected

01:10:12 ◼   ► of a puck-like device at this point.

01:10:16 ◼   ► And everything we complain about is bugs.

01:10:19 ◼   ► It's not like, oh, everything is slow

01:10:21 ◼   ► because the CPU is slow.

01:10:22 ◼   ► The responsiveness is okay as far as

01:10:25 ◼   ► set-top boxes go when things work.

01:10:28 ◼   ► And so we desperately do need a new puck.

01:10:31 ◼   ► And the reason, you say, oh, we're gene-munstering

01:10:35 ◼   ► Tim Cook on this 'cause he keeps saying,

01:10:36 ◼   ► where is the Apple TV?

01:10:37 ◼   ► But it's not us doing that.

01:10:38 ◼   ► It's Tim Cook and Apple speaking with the corporate voice

01:10:41 ◼   ► saying, we still believe in TV, we're interested in TV.

01:10:45 ◼   ► They're not just like not saying anything

01:10:46 ◼   ► and then it's just left us to figure out

01:10:48 ◼   ► that the iPod touch isn't coming back or whatever.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Like they keep talking about TV

01:10:51 ◼   ► and like how they're still pursuing that

01:10:54 ◼   ► and they think there's a,

01:10:55 ◼   ► it's a venue for possible future disruption

01:10:59 ◼   ► and advancement and whatever that like,

01:11:00 ◼   ► they keep talking about it.

01:11:01 ◼   ► So if you keep talking about it

01:11:02 ◼   ► and you drop the price on your system,

01:11:03 ◼   ► it's like, all right, so what are you talking about?

01:11:05 ◼   ► Are you talking about the stupid $79 puck

01:11:06 ◼   ► that we all hate now because it's buggy and old

01:11:08 ◼   ► and slow and getting worse with time instead of better

01:11:10 ◼   ► and messing up our networks

01:11:12 ◼   ► because of Discovery D or whatever?

01:11:14 ◼   ► They have to do something.

01:11:17 ◼   ► They're sending mixed messages here.

01:11:19 ◼   ► And one of the messages we really care about television

01:11:22 ◼   ► and we're interested in the future television

01:11:23 ◼   ► and the other message is what they're actually doing

01:11:26 ◼   ► which is just keeping the same product around

01:11:29 ◼   ► way past its prime and the only thing they've done

01:11:31 ◼   ► is drop the price.

01:11:32 ◼   ► - Well, I think it's very clear that they are,

01:11:36 ◼   ► there's so much smoke around this.

01:11:39 ◼   ► They are definitely working on some kind of major update

01:11:42 ◼   ► to it, but it's just not done yet.

01:11:44 ◼   ► You know, that's very clear.

01:11:46 ◼   ► And whether this was like a last minute slip,

01:11:49 ◼   ► or whether everyone was mis-predicting the launch before,

01:11:51 ◼   ► I mean--

01:11:52 ◼   ► - Or it could come out, like, yeah,

01:11:54 ◼   ► this is just a rumor, but it seems like

01:11:56 ◼   ► we're all writing it off.

01:11:56 ◼   ► It seems like we're saying,

01:11:57 ◼   ► we believe the New York Times story,

01:11:59 ◼   ► now we are completely prepared for there to be no Apple TV.

01:12:02 ◼   ► - Well, it has everything about a controlled leak

01:12:05 ◼   ► written all over it.

01:12:06 ◼   ► Like, this sure looks like Apple PR,

01:12:08 ◼   ► this is a controlled leak, no question.

01:12:10 ◼   ► So, you know, I believe that it's been kicked out

01:12:14 ◼   ► of the keynote, whether it was there or not

01:12:16 ◼   ► in the first place, we don't know whether this is setting

01:12:17 ◼   ► expectations based on new information or just tamping down

01:12:22 ◼   ► rumors that have gotten out of hand

01:12:23 ◼   ► and would disappoint people, who knows, doesn't matter.

01:12:26 ◼   ► The fact is, I believe these things to say

01:12:28 ◼   ► it's not gonna be there.

01:12:30 ◼   ► Anyway, there's nothing saying that they have to release

01:12:33 ◼   ► this at WWDC, like everyone always assumes

01:12:37 ◼   ► that Apple has to release new platforms at WWDC

01:12:41 ◼   ► that will have SDKs so that developers can get started on them

01:12:43 ◼   ► and that's simply not the case.

01:12:45 ◼   ► Look at the watch.

01:12:46 ◼   ► The watch was an entirely new platform

01:12:47 ◼   ► that has now many apps for it.

01:12:51 ◼   ► The watch has not seen WWDC yet.

01:12:53 ◼   ► It's about to, but the entire watch kit SDK was launched

01:12:59 ◼   ► last November with no event, well with the watch event,

01:13:02 ◼   ► but no developer event, no developer gatherings

01:13:07 ◼   ► any sort, because the fact is, WBCC holds about 5,000 people, and there's hundreds of

01:13:13 ◼   ► thousands of Apple developers. So, they can never satisfy everybody at these events, so

01:13:18 ◼   ► they have to do things online, they have to have these different systems and everything.

01:13:22 ◼   ► So, they can launch an Apple TV with an SDK whenever they want. They don't have to do

01:13:27 ◼   ► it next week. So, if something has slipped where it's not quite ideal timing for PR reasons,

01:13:33 ◼   ► like they're gonna want to ship this device along with a really compelling customer story,

01:13:40 ◼   ► a really compelling reason why people want to buy it besides, "Hey, we made a different

01:13:44 ◼   ► box. It runs the same crappy software that you're used to."

01:13:48 ◼   ► Do you always need that reason though? Because they release new Mac hardware without a new

01:13:55 ◼   ► OS or any new capabilities. This is what happens if you neglect your products and just say,

01:14:01 ◼   ► well, the Apple TV have is fine.

01:14:03 ◼   ► Like there's something to be said for,

01:14:05 ◼   ► yes, just coming out with the new box

01:14:07 ◼   ► with a faster CPU and GPU,

01:14:10 ◼   ► with lower power, less heat, smaller size,

01:14:14 ◼   ► like just basic hardware advancement.

01:14:17 ◼   ► I'm not saying you gotta do that every year

01:14:18 ◼   ► for the Apple TV,

01:14:19 ◼   ► 'cause it's not maybe an every year kind of product,

01:14:20 ◼   ► but every once in a while, that type of change,

01:14:24 ◼   ► you can't put that off wherever.

01:14:25 ◼   ► I understand that like, oh, we wanna have content deals,

01:14:27 ◼   ► we wanna have a new remote, we wanna have an SDK.

01:14:30 ◼   ► Like there's all these things that we see for the future of our little baby Apple TV

01:14:33 ◼   ► But if those things keep getting delayed for whatever reason that's fine

01:14:37 ◼   ► But in the meantime, it's okay just to do a hardware update and they did when they bumped it to 1080p

01:14:42 ◼   ► But then they just said that's it. We're like it's like now they're being stubborn

01:14:46 ◼   ► We're not going to touch anything until we have everything to show you especially if this rumor is true that like

01:14:51 ◼   ► You know the content deals were falling through it and I can imagine someone going well

01:14:56 ◼   ► Why would we bother releasing that's not like our headline feature like the SDK fine, whatever but our headline feature is hey

01:15:02 ◼   ► now you can be a cord cutter and you can actually use this to watch like quote unquote real TV and

01:15:06 ◼   ► It seems like they're saving it all up to say, you know, imagine they did it with the watch

01:15:10 ◼   ► Imagine if they said you know what we are not launching this without pulse ox, right and the FDA thing is holding it up fine

01:15:16 ◼   ► We're just not gonna go we'll delay it for another year

01:15:18 ◼   ► they didn't do that with the watch because it's seen as a much more important product and there was no existing one and

01:15:23 ◼   ► At this point the Apple TV is so long in the tooth that I just wish they would

01:15:27 ◼   ► You know

01:15:28 ◼   ► They don't have to pull a MacBook one and release something that might be weird and awkward and they really they replace it but like

01:15:32 ◼   ► Release the hardware that you know will work for your future software plans and at this point that hardware must exist

01:15:39 ◼   ► and

01:15:40 ◼   ► If the software is not ready for it

01:15:42 ◼   ► Like they should have if they had a contingency plan

01:15:44 ◼   ► Like let's just let ship the new hardware with the old software and yeah now it'll have a Showtime thing that you can pay

01:15:48 ◼   ► $11 a month and get Showtime just like you can with HBO go HBO now or whatever

01:15:53 ◼   ► That's still an okay product.

01:15:55 ◼   ► Keep selling the $79 one, sell this one for,

01:15:58 ◼   ► so hell, sell this one for 149 or something.

01:16:00 ◼   ► Maybe you don't sell a lot of them,

01:16:01 ◼   ► but eventually you'll have a selling proposition

01:16:03 ◼   ► where you can say, oh, if you have the new Apple TV,

01:16:06 ◼   ► you can get all these amazing features

01:16:08 ◼   ► and these new content deals and whatever.

01:16:11 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm just getting frustrated with the Apple TV,

01:16:13 ◼   ► both my specific hardware product

01:16:15 ◼   ► that I'm slowly using less and less,

01:16:17 ◼   ► and the fact that Apple won't put out a new one.

01:16:18 ◼   ► And the reason for that,

01:16:19 ◼   ► and this gets into a question I have for Casey,

01:16:21 ◼   ► is I have a lot of stuff that I bought on iTunes.

01:16:24 ◼   ► Why do I buy them on iTunes?

01:16:25 ◼   ► I guess because it's really easy.

01:16:27 ◼   ► I just go and press the button

01:16:28 ◼   ► and the kids are watching a movie.

01:16:30 ◼   ► But now, you know, we all know this.

01:16:32 ◼   ► The best of us know it, but we still do it anyway.

01:16:35 ◼   ► Didn't you know you were buying things

01:16:36 ◼   ► you could only watch on Apple devices?

01:16:37 ◼   ► Yes, I knew, but I always assumed

01:16:39 ◼   ► there would be some passable Apple device

01:16:40 ◼   ► that I could use to watch it.

01:16:41 ◼   ► So now, why do I go to the Apple TV?

01:16:43 ◼   ► Because the kids wanna watch a movie

01:16:45 ◼   ► that we have purchased from iTunes.

01:16:46 ◼   ► So Casey, do you have a lot of iTunes purchases?

01:16:49 ◼   ► I guess not if you're abandoning it entirely

01:16:51 ◼   ► the Amazon thing. I have a fair bit of iTunes music purchases, but those were already abandoned

01:16:57 ◼   ► in favor of Spotify. I know for some people that works, for some people that doesn't,

01:17:00 ◼   ► but that's what I've done. I don't know that I've ever purchased a movie on iTunes. I do have a

01:17:06 ◼   ► couple of ultraviolet movies, so I've gotten the Blu-ray and that comes with a digital copy,

01:17:14 ◼   ► and you can typically redeem that in one of several proprietary systems, and I've redeemed

01:17:19 ◼   ► that copy within iTunes. But generally speaking, I will, if I'm buying a movie or if I want a movie

01:17:27 ◼   ► for like my birthday or something, generally speaking, what I'll do is I'll ask for it on

01:17:31 ◼   ► Blu-ray. And then I will rip it and stick it on my NAS using Don Melton scripts in order to get it so

01:17:40 ◼   ► that it's accessible without the disk. Though if I were to sit down and watch a movie, just like

01:17:46 ◼   ► like Aaron and I, for example,

01:17:48 ◼   ► I would put in the Blu-ray if I have it available,

01:17:50 ◼   ► which I know makes me weird in a lot of ways.

01:17:52 ◼   ► - As your bouncing baby boy gets bigger,

01:17:54 ◼   ► I can imagine you will find yourself

01:17:56 ◼   ► in a similar situation to most parents,

01:17:58 ◼   ► which is kids wanna watch a movie,

01:18:00 ◼   ► you're sure as hell not gonna order a DVD,

01:18:02 ◼   ► get it, rip it to Plex, and have them watch it later.

01:18:04 ◼   ► You're going to pull up whatever you need to pull up

01:18:07 ◼   ► to buy the movie now and start watching it.

01:18:08 ◼   ► And maybe for you, that will be your Amazon, whatever,

01:18:11 ◼   ► a Fire TV stick, like that Apple,

01:18:14 ◼   ► that your impulse purchases of movies

01:18:16 ◼   ► that you're not interested enough in to watch on Blu-ray,

01:18:18 ◼   ► but that you want your kid to see

01:18:19 ◼   ► and want to be always available,

01:18:21 ◼   ► you'll buy them on the stick

01:18:22 ◼   ► rather than buying them on the Apple TV.

01:18:24 ◼   ► But for us, we've already bought a ton of them on Apple TV

01:18:27 ◼   ► and I imagine Marco has too, like, you know, kids movies.

01:18:30 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, the vast majority of movies that we own

01:18:33 ◼   ► through iTunes are Pixar movies.

01:18:34 ◼   ► - Those are important enough to me

01:18:35 ◼   ► that I get the fancy Blu-rays for,

01:18:37 ◼   ► but I'm just talking about like other random stuff

01:18:39 ◼   ► or even movies for myself, like, I don't know,

01:18:42 ◼   ► just like a Marvel movie that I'm not that into,

01:18:44 ◼   ► but I wanna see it.

01:18:45 ◼   ► I'll just go and buy it on iTunes.

01:18:47 ◼   ► And I've even done iTunes rentals,

01:18:49 ◼   ► which I thought I would never do,

01:18:50 ◼   ► because they're so expensive.

01:18:51 ◼   ► And I was like, look, if you think the movie's

01:18:52 ◼   ► important enough to rent, like, and I have Netflix,

01:18:54 ◼   ► like why are you renting a movie from iTunes?

01:18:55 ◼   ► It's just, we're so incredibly lazy

01:18:58 ◼   ► that you don't want to wait for a disc to arrive.

01:19:00 ◼   ► And if it's not available on streaming,

01:19:02 ◼   ► you're just gonna be like, you know what?

01:19:03 ◼   ► Let me just rent it on iTunes.

01:19:04 ◼   ► It's $3.99 for two people to watch a movie.

01:19:06 ◼   ► It's way cheaper than going to the movies.

01:19:08 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:19:09 ◼   ► And then at this point, we're never just buying them,

01:19:10 ◼   ► because if you rent it, you rent it once,

01:19:12 ◼   ► and then the kids want to see it,

01:19:13 ◼   ► it because it's a family movie, then you rent it twice, you should have just bought it anyway.

01:19:16 ◼   ► So I don't know. Anyway, the point is all of my movies are trapped in the iTunes ecosystem,

01:19:20 ◼   ► so I desperately want Apple to at least maintain some sort of confidence and update their hardware

01:19:25 ◼   ► so I can continue to watch the movies that I paid for. Because unlike music, they haven't

01:19:28 ◼   ► gone DRM-free, so I can't sort of take them out of their cage and put them someplace else.

01:19:33 ◼   ► Well, to put it in perspective, just a few days ago, I decided to buy the movie Sneakers

01:19:38 ◼   ► from the early 90s, and it did not even cross my mind

01:19:42 ◼   ► to look on iTunes.

01:19:43 ◼   ► I immediately went to Amazon, found a Blu-ray,

01:19:45 ◼   ► and shipped it to myself.

01:19:46 ◼   ► That was the first thing I did.

01:19:47 ◼   ► I didn't even consider doing anything else.

01:19:49 ◼   ► - Well, you should get sneakers and Blu-ray,

01:19:50 ◼   ► 'cause that's an important movie.

01:19:51 ◼   ► - I agree, it's a wonderful movie.

01:19:53 ◼   ► - That Marco hasn't seen or probably ever heard of.

01:19:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:19:56 ◼   ► - I've heard of it.

01:19:57 ◼   ► I don't know if I've seen it, or I might have seen it,

01:20:00 ◼   ► like back when it was current, I might have seen it.

01:20:04 ◼   ► - It's a great, great movie.

01:20:05 ◼   ► Have you seen War Games, Marco?

01:20:06 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:20:08 ◼   ► - Okay, you're not completely without hope then,

01:20:10 ◼   ► says pot to kettle.

01:20:11 ◼   ► - No, most of the movies I haven't seen

01:20:14 ◼   ► came out like after 2002.

01:20:16 ◼   ► - Oh, this was '92, so you don't really have any excuses.

01:20:19 ◼   ► - Right, exactly.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Yeah, '90s I have covered pretty well.

01:20:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, good deal.

01:20:24 ◼   ► What else do we think is happening at WWDC?

01:20:27 ◼   ► What are we getting on the watch?

01:20:28 ◼   ► Are we getting third party complications?

01:20:31 ◼   ► I say no way.

01:20:32 ◼   ► - There have been a couple of rumors that said yes.

01:20:34 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:20:36 ◼   ► Right now, I made my big post last week about,

01:20:39 ◼   ► I have so many questions about the Apple Watch Native SDK.

01:20:43 ◼   ► We know that we're getting it, that's been confirmed.

01:20:46 ◼   ► So we know that we are getting the Native Watch SDK.

01:20:48 ◼   ► We don't know how limited it will be,

01:20:51 ◼   ► what it will and won't be able to do,

01:20:53 ◼   ► what it will and won't be allowed to do by policy.

01:20:56 ◼   ► There are so many questions on that,

01:20:59 ◼   ► that all we can say is we're getting a Native SDK.

01:21:03 ◼   ► But I have no idea, from my point of view,

01:21:05 ◼   ► whether an overcast app will be possible,

01:21:08 ◼   ► whether it will not suck.

01:21:10 ◼   ► You know, like I have, whether it's possible

01:21:12 ◼   ► to make one that doesn't suck, I have no idea.

01:21:15 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to it.

01:21:16 ◼   ► It's very impressive.

01:21:17 ◼   ► To me, it sounds like a very aggressive timing

01:21:20 ◼   ► to have this already so soon after the launch of the watch.

01:21:23 ◼   ► But hey, if they can do it, great.

01:21:26 ◼   ► - Is it kind of weird that they pre-announced the SDK?

01:21:29 ◼   ► Like, I mean, I'm trying to think of why bother

01:21:32 ◼   ► pre-announcing it?

01:21:33 ◼   ► Like we all kind of expected it was coming,

01:21:34 ◼   ► but why not just save the surprise?

01:21:35 ◼   ► Like is it so pressing that there was pressure on them

01:21:38 ◼   ► to have to say, no, seriously, it's coming.

01:21:39 ◼   ► 'Cause they told us it was coming.

01:21:41 ◼   ► They said like, this is what you have now.

01:21:43 ◼   ► You have watched it, native SDK in the future.

01:21:45 ◼   ► They could have just said,

01:21:47 ◼   ► and that could have been the last you heard from it.

01:21:48 ◼   ► And then we all would have assumed it said WWDC.

01:21:50 ◼   ► It would have been at WWDC.

01:21:52 ◼   ► Would it have been slightly more exciting

01:21:53 ◼   ► for them not to have confirmed shortly before WWDC?

01:21:57 ◼   ► Oh, by the way, remember when we said,

01:21:58 ◼   ► well, have the SDK in the future?

01:21:59 ◼   ► Well, the future is WWDC.

01:22:00 ◼   ► That's exactly when you're gonna see it.

01:22:01 ◼   ► Why bother spoiling that minor surprise?

01:22:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, sure, but maybe when they decided

01:22:08 ◼   ► to say that publicly, which is what, about a week ago,

01:22:12 ◼   ► when they decided, maybe that's also when they decided

01:22:14 ◼   ► the Apple TV wasn't gonna make the cut,

01:22:16 ◼   ► or maybe they, I hope they knew by then

01:22:19 ◼   ► whether the Apple TV wasn't going to make the cut,

01:22:21 ◼   ► and so maybe this is kind of a two-stage PR management move

01:22:25 ◼   ► where you're trying to give people good news first

01:22:29 ◼   ► so then the bad news doesn't sting as badly, I don't know.

01:22:31 ◼   ► But that's just a guess.

01:22:33 ◼   ► - I don't think it matters one way or the other.

01:22:34 ◼   ► It's just, it's like a difference of, you know, it used to be that Apple would keep

01:22:37 ◼   ► every possible secret it could, even when everybody knew, like it's so obvious they

01:22:41 ◼   ► were going to do something, they wouldn't say anything.

01:22:43 ◼   ► I mean, and speaking of obvious, iOS 9 and a new version of OS X, everyone I guess assumes

01:22:49 ◼   ► that the OS updates will exist.

01:22:51 ◼   ► Apple hasn't announced, maybe they probably have, like come see what's new in the next

01:22:56 ◼   ► version of iOS, that's probably in the WOEC literature somewhere, I didn't even bother

01:22:59 ◼   ► looking but that's kind of an assumption based on their yearly schedules.

01:23:03 ◼   ► They won't tell you what they're gonna be called,

01:23:04 ◼   ► their names, there's still a little bit of surprise there,

01:23:07 ◼   ► but I assume we all agree that those two things,

01:23:09 ◼   ► do we think either one of those things

01:23:11 ◼   ► are going off a yearly schedule,

01:23:12 ◼   ► or do we just assume there will be

01:23:13 ◼   ► new major versions of both of those?

01:23:15 ◼   ► - They'll be there. - Yeah.

01:23:17 ◼   ► All right, so now what's in them?

01:23:19 ◼   ► Let's start with iOS 9.

01:23:20 ◼   ► What characterizes iOS 9?

01:23:23 ◼   ► - That's a tough thing.

01:23:25 ◼   ► I don't know of any low-hanging fruit

01:23:30 ◼   ► that I really, really, really want to see changed.

01:23:34 ◼   ► For the like of me, I can't think of anything

01:23:37 ◼   ► that irks me on a regular basis.

01:23:39 ◼   ► And a lot of people have been calling for,

01:23:42 ◼   ► you know, taking watch-style complications

01:23:45 ◼   ► and putting them on the lock screen

01:23:46 ◼   ► or even potentially putting them in springboard.

01:23:49 ◼   ► And I don't know, maybe that's one of those things

01:23:51 ◼   ► that once it arrives, I'll be like,

01:23:52 ◼   ► "Oh yes, I can't imagine not having this anymore."

01:23:55 ◼   ► But I don't really feel like I want any of that stuff.

01:23:59 ◼   ► And so to me, I just feel like I want everything to be a little less buggy and a little more

01:24:06 ◼   ► reliable.

01:24:07 ◼   ► And I don't know if I mean iOS specifically, I don't know if I mean iCloud since I've been

01:24:11 ◼   ► burned by that over the last few days, but I would just love to see a slowed down release.

01:24:17 ◼   ► And I think that's what we're going to get.

01:24:19 ◼   ► I think we're going to get less whiz-bang features than we do, generally speaking, but

01:24:25 ◼   ► we'll still get a handful.

01:24:27 ◼   ► But I think that there will be a public,

01:24:30 ◼   ► admission isn't the word I'm looking for,

01:24:32 ◼   ► but a public statement that this is about

01:24:35 ◼   ► tuning things up and cleaning things out.

01:24:37 ◼   ► I don't know, what do you think, Marco?

01:24:39 ◼   ► - I'm mostly with you.

01:24:40 ◼   ► I do think that there's a lot of stuff they could do

01:24:44 ◼   ► to improve things user-facing that wouldn't be

01:24:49 ◼   ► totally out of the blue.

01:24:49 ◼   ► Like, last year they introduced

01:24:51 ◼   ► this amazing extension system.

01:24:53 ◼   ► There are still a few places where extensions

01:24:55 ◼   ► could be useful and welcome.

01:24:56 ◼   ► So possibly new extension points, possibly enhancement

01:25:01 ◼   ► to existing extension points, things that you can extend

01:25:04 ◼   ► from, and some small seeming but very helpful things

01:25:08 ◼   ► such as apps being able to launch specific extensions

01:25:14 ◼   ► from specific people, that would be nice.

01:25:16 ◼   ► Or one of the big ones, mail app supporting extensions,

01:25:20 ◼   ► that would be nice 'cause it's kind of weird

01:25:22 ◼   ► and really annoying that it doesn't.

01:25:25 ◼   ► So if the Apple Mail app could launch extensions,

01:25:27 ◼   ► that would be amazing.

01:25:29 ◼   ► So there's stuff like that.

01:25:30 ◼   ► There's a lot of enhancements to things

01:25:33 ◼   ► we already have generally, but they can make them better

01:25:35 ◼   ► or they can expand them.

01:25:37 ◼   ► Lots of that stuff is what I'm looking for,

01:25:39 ◼   ► what I'm hoping for, in addition to the refinement.

01:25:43 ◼   ► I mean, if you just look at what we're seeing

01:25:46 ◼   ► over the last few days with the 10.10.4 beta

01:25:50 ◼   ► replacing DiscoveryD with the old mDNS responder,

01:25:54 ◼   ► that I think, based on what I've read

01:25:58 ◼   ► and the research I've done

01:25:59 ◼   ► and what everyone else has been saying,

01:26:01 ◼   ► I think that replacing Discovery D

01:26:04 ◼   ► with the old reliable MDNS responder

01:26:07 ◼   ► is going to solve more than half of the issues

01:26:10 ◼   ► I face every day with Apple products.

01:26:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

01:26:15 ◼   ► I never really got as bugged by it

01:26:18 ◼   ► as like you and Chalkenberry did.

01:26:20 ◼   ► I mean, I certainly had, you know,

01:26:21 ◼   ► KCLS MacBook Pro one, two, three, four.

01:26:25 ◼   ► But it seemed to me that a lot of the issues

01:26:28 ◼   ► that you guys had, like you had said, Marco,

01:26:30 ◼   ► about your printer was constantly having issues.

01:26:33 ◼   ► I don't have a fancy printer,

01:26:34 ◼   ► so I never ran into any of that sort of thing.

01:26:36 ◼   ► But just my gut, and maybe it's because

01:26:39 ◼   ► I've just listened to everyone talk about it all the time,

01:26:41 ◼   ► but my gut tells me that some of these things

01:26:43 ◼   ► that I can't really attribute what they're for,

01:26:45 ◼   ► like Apple TV wonkiness, it's very rare

01:26:48 ◼   ► that I can get my Apple TV to kick on

01:26:51 ◼   ► when I try to AirPlay to it.

01:26:53 ◼   ► I have to go over to it and turn it on.

01:26:55 ◼   ► And then half the time when I turn it on,

01:26:57 ◼   ► the darn thing won't be visible in my AirPlay devices.

01:27:01 ◼   ► I'm starting to wonder if a lot of these little

01:27:03 ◼   ► kooky, weird things that are starting to drive me up a wall

01:27:06 ◼   ► are DiscoveryD and MDNS responder issues.

01:27:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know how widespread these problems are

01:27:12 ◼   ► because from what I've seen from all the reports on them,

01:27:14 ◼   ► the nature of the problems that makes them

01:27:16 ◼   ► so incredibly maddening is that they're sort of like a poisoning of your environment.

01:27:21 ◼   ► A lot of the fixes are like, look, unplug your Apple TV, turn off your router, shut

01:27:26 ◼   ► everything down, and then start them up in this order.

01:27:30 ◼   ► Because if you don't, a feature of the new Discovery Do You Thing or whatever are existing

01:27:35 ◼   ► features of the various Apple devices, they will hang on to mappings between Mac addresses

01:27:39 ◼   ► and names and other stuff.

01:27:41 ◼   ► They will keep that information even when the machines from which that information originated

01:27:45 ◼   ► are turned off. So merely restarting your Mac doesn't fix it because there's your Apple TV

01:27:49 ◼   ► off in the corner that you forgot about that's holding on to those poisoned addresses and forcing

01:27:53 ◼   ► your Mac to pick a different number or whatever. Like I don't understand the details of it, but a

01:27:57 ◼   ► lot of the analyses I've read have pointed to a sort of distributed problem where it's not just

01:28:02 ◼   ► a local problem on your machine where some software that's behaving badly, it's that bad

01:28:06 ◼   ► information spreads across your network and if you don't sort of flush it out in the most heinous way

01:28:11 ◼   ► possible you're screwed and that even if you do flush it out it could still come back or

01:28:16 ◼   ► whatever so those problems are incredibly frustrating but it also means that I think

01:28:20 ◼   ► there are a lot of people myself included who have never had any of these problems at

01:28:24 ◼   ► all because the poison has not seeped into our network for whatever reason.

01:28:29 ◼   ► I remember when I had the loaner Macbook at WWDC last year with the Yosemite on it I immediately

01:28:35 ◼   ► saw the two, three, four numbers going up just from using that computer machine alone

01:28:41 ◼   ► by itself at WWDC, seeing my number increase.

01:28:43 ◼   ► And I'm like, oh, well, that's a bug, right?

01:28:46 ◼   ► But when I got everything home on my home network, everything just seemed to work.

01:28:51 ◼   ► And with Yosemite, my entire usage of Yosemite, I haven't had any Wi-Fi problems.

01:28:55 ◼   ► I haven't had any printing problems.

01:28:57 ◼   ► I haven't had any networking problems.

01:29:00 ◼   ► I have seen the numbers every once in a while, but they've never gone over two or something.

01:29:05 ◼   ► So I don't know, again, this is the nature of the problem.

01:29:09 ◼   ► This is definitely a problem and it's the worst kind of problem because the people who

01:29:11 ◼   ► have it, it's like, I don't know, like an infestation of insects or something.

01:29:15 ◼   ► You gotta just burn the house down and then rebuild a new house and even then they might

01:29:18 ◼   ► come back.

01:29:19 ◼   ► So yeah, this seems like a big misstep and it's a shame because this type of move, like

01:29:26 ◼   ► why replace mDNS responder with discovery?

01:29:28 ◼   ► Well anyone who has spent a long time with OS X remembers the complaints about mDNS responder

01:29:33 ◼   ► being flaky and having to kill it and installing old versions of MDNSResponder because the

01:29:37 ◼   ► old version was better than the new version.

01:29:39 ◼   ► That was a thing in many years past, that MDNSResponder was a source of all sorts of

01:29:44 ◼   ► bugs and stuff or whatever.

01:29:45 ◼   ► And eventually it shakes out, but it's like someone comes in and says, "Look, the reason

01:29:49 ◼   ► MDNSResponder was all buggy is because it's actually kind of the wrong design and the

01:29:53 ◼   ► features are distributed in the wrong way, and we really need a clean sheet approach

01:29:57 ◼   ► here."

01:29:58 ◼   ► And then DiscoveryD is their clean sheet approach, it gets a new name, it does different things,

01:30:02 ◼   ► it's bugging it's got some terrible bugs that manifest in terrible ways and everybody hates it right and

01:30:06 ◼   ► The wrong lesson to take from this is never try to radically change anything ever

01:30:11 ◼   ► I think you have to and those are the type of moves from a CoreOS group that I want to see that's why I wrote

01:30:17 ◼   ► An entire section about launchd which is a replacement for the init program, which is like old-school Unix

01:30:22 ◼   ► How can you replace init? That's like why would you get rid of that? It works perfectly fine

01:30:26 ◼   ► It's been around for decades part of FreeBSD and BSD and Unix and everything like you're gonna get rid of init

01:30:31 ◼   ► You're gonna replace it with what some weird thing that sort of also does the same thing as crumb

01:30:35 ◼   ► But also watches for IO and triggers jobs based on device like I don't even know what you're doing here

01:30:40 ◼   ► You're biting off more than you can chew its second system syndrome

01:30:42 ◼   ► Launchd is a stupid idea, but I totally applaud launchd

01:30:46 ◼   ► That's why I wrote about it, and I think it's great

01:30:48 ◼   ► And I think the launchd you know it had a bumpy start

01:30:51 ◼   ► But launchd is what's running all your Macs now that is a success discovery D. Not so much a success so I

01:30:59 ◼   ► Hope Apple's core OS group or whoever is responsible to discovery D keeps doing things like discovery D because

01:31:06 ◼   ► That's what that's what they should be doing. They should not be resting on their laurels

01:31:11 ◼   ► They should not accept the Unix underpinnings as they exist

01:31:14 ◼   ► They should always be trying to make them something better just you know work on the execution

01:31:18 ◼   ► All right, I was gonna say one more thing on OS 9 as in likely this is the release where we you know

01:31:23 ◼   ► Focus on stability and make things nice and blah blah

01:31:27 ◼   ► You know and like Marco said in addition to doing all the usual stuff like a million bug fixes and all the frameworks and small

01:31:33 ◼   ► New features stuff like that. This is kind of not that they did it on purpose this way, but it is it is a beautiful

01:31:39 ◼   ► symmetrical

01:31:41 ◼   ► PR win for Apple because last year

01:31:43 ◼   ► We were all jazzed at WRC like look whole new language crazy new OS all sorts of things that you couldn't do before

01:31:51 ◼   ► You know

01:31:53 ◼   ► Last year was the keyboards like new keyboards and stuff right that was an extensions like Wow just stars in our eyes

01:31:59 ◼   ► Everything we always wanted from Apple. This is great, right and this year, you know

01:32:04 ◼   ► After the long year of bugs and weirdness and stuff like that this year everyone is kind of grumbly

01:32:10 ◼   ► Apple can get the same rounds of applause and good feelings from developers by saying the exact opposite this year

01:32:16 ◼   ► We're gonna buckle down and make everything better and everyone will applaud and applaud like

01:32:20 ◼   ► They have that it's two totally different messages both years

01:32:24 ◼   ► They're going to make developers happy and it's not like this evil plot to do it

01:32:27 ◼   ► But it's like that's what you have to do

01:32:30 ◼   ► Like what do we have to do to make developers happy last year?

01:32:33 ◼   ► What they had to do was give them all the things they've been withholding for a long time this year

01:32:37 ◼   ► All they have to do is say we've heard your complaints and we're gonna really buckle down and we're gonna make this like a polishing

01:32:44 ◼   ► Year and make everything better and they'll get the exact same amount of applause as they got last year

01:32:48 ◼   ► So that's totally what I expect to happen. I

01:32:50 ◼   ► Want them to emphasize that they're working on stability and refinement and I want those to be the big applause lines from the disgruntled developers

01:32:59 ◼   ► I

01:33:00 ◼   ► Can't imagine this year that they would say we're going even faster into the future and iOS 9 is gonna have more new features than iOS

01:33:06 ◼   ► 8 does and it's gonna be crazy because developers will be like

01:33:09 ◼   ► Really? Can you just fix the bugs in the frameworks that you have like this is one of those years

01:33:14 ◼   ► And so I think the cycle is natural and it just may be exaggerated because of the huge

01:33:19 ◼   ► bonanza last year and what I imagine to be the sort of doubling down on reliability and

01:33:25 ◼   ► refinement and polish this year.

01:33:27 ◼   ► Well, and also they have the watch SDK to take some of the PR burden, to be a big part

01:33:35 ◼   ► of like the wow factor this year so that iOS and Mac OS can kind of rest for a second.

01:33:42 ◼   ► They're not gonna rest for long,

01:33:44 ◼   ► but they can take a brief nap while the watch does its thing.

01:33:48 ◼   ► - An app nap?

01:33:49 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:33:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:33:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, that'll be nice.

01:33:55 ◼   ► Like the watch, it'll also be fun to see the phone

01:34:00 ◼   ► not be the hottest product at WWDC

01:34:02 ◼   ► and how that affects the poor phone's ego.

01:34:04 ◼   ► The Mac had to endure it.

01:34:07 ◼   ► They're like, this used to be my conference

01:34:08 ◼   ► and now it's iOS this and iOS that,

01:34:10 ◼   ► and they have more sessions than we do

01:34:11 ◼   ► and everyone cares about the Mac.

01:34:13 ◼   ► And now it's gonna be like, oh, the watch is the new hot.

01:34:15 ◼   ► I guess the phone still goes long,

01:34:16 ◼   ► 'cause it's like, look, watch, you get nothing without me.

01:34:17 ◼   ► All your apps come from me.

01:34:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:34:20 ◼   ► So that'll probably still work out.

01:34:22 ◼   ► And as for OS X,

01:34:23 ◼   ► people are talking about, oh, they did 1010.

01:34:28 ◼   ► If they're gonna change the X to an 11

01:34:31 ◼   ► or some bogus crap like that,

01:34:32 ◼   ► this would be the time to do it.

01:34:33 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't think there's any pressure

01:34:36 ◼   ► to rename that thing.

01:34:37 ◼   ► I think it'll just be 1011.

01:34:38 ◼   ► It'll be a different California place name.

01:34:40 ◼   ► What will be in it?

01:34:41 ◼   ► I think they can get away with the same thing saying you know

01:34:44 ◼   ► Discovery D alone is

01:34:47 ◼   ► Enough reason that people in the room would applaud if they emphasize that the new version of OS X

01:34:52 ◼   ► Refines the existing features although I still feel like there's more pressure on OS X to have something new like every year they have

01:34:58 ◼   ► Something they want to show you

01:35:01 ◼   ► If they're like last year piggyback than iOS 8 so much

01:35:05 ◼   ► It's like Oh extensions and share things and whatever and you need to share a lot of the same code like it was

01:35:09 ◼   ► It was as I wrote in my review to OS is moving together

01:35:12 ◼   ► Forward like we all have the same features together handoff is a feature that we share

01:35:17 ◼   ► Extensions is a feature that we share like even though they they manifest in different ways

01:35:21 ◼   ► The feature that the abilities are the same and they only make sense together

01:35:25 ◼   ► If iOS 9 says this is this is like a rebuilding polishing year

01:35:29 ◼   ► Does OS 10 say the same thing? This is a rebuilding polishing year

01:35:33 ◼   ► Can you give OS 10 features at this point without them having equivalents in OS 9?

01:35:38 ◼   ► I don't even know, I can't,

01:35:39 ◼   ► other than obviously a new file system, whatever.

01:35:41 ◼   ► But you know. - Ding, ding.

01:35:42 ◼   ► - If that happens, I'm gonna retire.

01:35:44 ◼   ► Like I'm not gonna ever go to WRC again,

01:35:46 ◼   ► 'cause I got one year to make a new language,

01:35:48 ◼   ► I got another year to make a new file system,

01:35:49 ◼   ► I should just never bother going again,

01:35:51 ◼   ► 'cause it's all downhill from there.

01:35:52 ◼   ► - Or you should go every year,

01:35:54 ◼   ► see what else they come up with.

01:35:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:35:56 ◼   ► - No, I mean like, I think with macOS,

01:35:58 ◼   ► you're gonna have, you know,

01:35:59 ◼   ► you have similar opportunities as you do with iOS

01:36:02 ◼   ► for things like enhancements to the extension system.

01:36:07 ◼   ► extensions in more places, different kinds of extensions.

01:36:10 ◼   ► Like just stuff like that.

01:36:12 ◼   ► There is lots of room for little things like that.

01:36:14 ◼   ► I mean, a lot of times, as no one knows better than you,

01:36:16 ◼   ► John, a lot of times with the OSs,

01:36:19 ◼   ► the big headlining features of macOS

01:36:24 ◼   ► are just like, are things like enhancements to mail.

01:36:27 ◼   ► Like, you know, enhancements to like some of the basic

01:36:29 ◼   ► system apps that are built as OS features.

01:36:31 ◼   ► And then there's also a bunch of underlying changes

01:36:34 ◼   ► to nice stuff or new APIs.

01:36:36 ◼   ► Like, that's the kind of thing I would expect

01:36:39 ◼   ► for Mac OS this year.

01:36:40 ◼   ► Like, a couple of marketing features

01:36:42 ◼   ► like in some of the built-in apps or in Finder or something.

01:36:45 ◼   ► Not like a really heavy duty kind of thing.

01:36:48 ◼   ► And then just a whole bunch of API enhancements

01:36:51 ◼   ► under the hood and refinements to extensions,

01:36:54 ◼   ► stuff like that.