ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I do. I steal all the tissues out of the hotel room and then have to make sure they refill those boxes.

00:00:05 ◼   ► Sometimes they don't.

00:00:06 ◼   ► We're live. We are in person in my hotel room with a whole bunch of equipment and wires everywhere.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Recording this on a proper three-track recorder with three microphones.

00:00:17 ◼   ► And one is clipped to a table. Mine is clipped to a suitcase stand.

00:00:22 ◼   ► And Jon's is clipped to a pole lamp.

00:00:24 ◼   ► And we are making this work. Yeah. So big day, huh?

00:00:29 ◼   ► Huge week. It's odd looking at you guys. We do this every year, but it's odd looking at you guys while we're doing the show.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Do you have a little note thing normally when we record? Or is that just for today?

00:00:39 ◼   ► No, this is just, so I'm holding a field notes and I have, so the comedy behind this is, I wrote some notes in my field notes, but I can't read them because my handwriting is crap in general, but my handwriting is unintelligible when I'm writing in a dark room, like, without having a surface to write upon.

00:00:55 ◼   ► - You should have tapped them out

00:00:56 ◼   ► on your little iOS device.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I don't know why you're writing in this Field Notes notebook

00:01:00 ◼   ► that's shaped like your butt.

00:01:01 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:03 ◼   ► - So I know, I'll have to paint you a word picture.

00:01:05 ◼   ► So the Field Notes is concave, convex,

00:01:09 ◼   ► I always get it backwards, anyway, it's bent.

00:01:10 ◼   ► - Depends on which way you hold it.

00:01:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I guess that's true.

00:01:12 ◼   ► So it's bent because it always resides

00:01:14 ◼   ► in my back left pocket.

00:01:15 ◼   ► It is crinkly as all anything.

00:01:17 ◼   ► And so, yeah, so I didn't take copious notes.

00:01:20 ◼   ► I don't know, how do you wanna start this?

00:01:23 ◼   ► I mean, the morning was--

00:01:24 ◼   ► Are you actually, are we now learning, because I have notes, are we learning that I took

00:01:29 ◼   ► the best notes of the three of us?

00:01:30 ◼   ► You know I wasn't taking notes, I'm on vacation.

00:01:34 ◼   ► You're on vacation in California?

00:01:35 ◼   ► Exactly, yeah, no I didn't take notes, but if I just saw like the agenda, like if you

00:01:40 ◼   ► just have the agenda, the keynote, we'll just go through it chronologically and assume that

00:01:43 ◼   ► we will actually finish with the agenda. Marco can keep an eye on the time and how far we're

00:01:47 ◼   ► through the agenda and if we spend 45 minutes on the first item, we'll know that we have

00:01:51 ◼   ► to move along.

00:01:53 ◼   ► - Although, are we just going through the keynote,

00:01:55 ◼   ► or are we also going through the State of the Union?

00:01:58 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Knowing us, we'll barely make it through half the keynote.

00:02:02 ◼   ► And the keynote was about seven hours long,

00:02:04 ◼   ► so there's that.

00:02:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I wanna say, like,

00:02:07 ◼   ► we've done these recordings before,

00:02:08 ◼   ► and for people who haven't listened to them,

00:02:11 ◼   ► I think the thing to remember is that we spent the day

00:02:15 ◼   ► standing in lines, attending the keynote.

00:02:19 ◼   ► By the way, I'm actually at WWDC,

00:02:20 ◼   ► in case you were wondering.

00:02:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:22 ◼   ► - And then the state of the union.

00:02:26 ◼   ► We haven't had time to look up everything

00:02:28 ◼   ► on all the websites or digest it all or whatever.

00:02:30 ◼   ► So the main thing we're bringing to this

00:02:32 ◼   ► as people who are actually here,

00:02:34 ◼   ► bringing to the people who aren't here,

00:02:36 ◼   ► is that we were in the room and we could see the reactions

00:02:39 ◼   ► and we are sort of giving first impressions.

00:02:41 ◼   ► So inevitably we will get things wrong.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Like just before we started recording,

00:02:44 ◼   ► I was asking, I wish I could see a particular slide

00:02:47 ◼   ► because I have some memory of something being on that slide

00:02:49 ◼   ► but I'm not entirely sure.

00:02:50 ◼   ► So if we make mistakes, please forgive us

00:02:51 ◼   ► but we're trying to give you the on-the-scene sort of flavor

00:02:55 ◼   ► of WWDC, not so much a comprehensive, no factual errors,

00:02:59 ◼   ► complete coverage of everything that was announced today.

00:03:01 ◼   ► - Because clearly that's what we do,

00:03:02 ◼   ► is a podcast that has no factual errors ever.

00:03:04 ◼   ► And so this is an exciting-- - What a section.

00:03:06 ◼   ► - The weird thing is if you are here,

00:03:08 ◼   ► you actually probably know less about the announcements

00:03:11 ◼   ► than if you're not here,

00:03:12 ◼   ► because you're too busy being there for the things.

00:03:15 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, like Jason Stell talked about that

00:03:17 ◼   ► in Upgrade last week about how when you are covering

00:03:20 ◼   ► event you don't have time the way everyone else does at home to go through all the websites

00:03:24 ◼   ► and documentation right after they're released and everything. So we actually have had, yeah

00:03:28 ◼   ► you're right, we've had less time to go over this than a lot of people have. So we're making

00:03:31 ◼   ► a podcast about it.

00:03:33 ◼   ► But we have the things that they don't have is that we get to, and this is a thing people

00:03:37 ◼   ► don't know too, when they release the videos of this, they edit them. They cut out parts,

00:03:41 ◼   ► they cut out audience noise, they cut out flubs, sometimes they're even edited for content

00:03:46 ◼   ► like when that guy typed the wrong thing into the, whatever that was, like, what was that?

00:03:51 ◼   ► I don't remember. Oh, that was Siri? Did you talk about it during the music or? No, like

00:03:53 ◼   ► in the old thing that he was trying to say, "It's Road Trip." Oh, you were talking about

00:03:58 ◼   ► last year. He was trying to say "Utah Road Trip" or something, but it almost... Oh, he

00:04:01 ◼   ► put up the wrong song. Like, that one with the S-something. The Siri thing, yeah. But

00:04:06 ◼   ► anyway, being here live, that's what you get. And sometimes that's significant and sometimes

00:04:10 ◼   ► it's not, but that's what we've got to offer you. Right. Lucky you. Hooray! Well, let's

00:04:15 ◼   ► start, how about we do just a general overall feeling about the entire keynote.

00:04:19 ◼   ► Let's leave aside the State of the Union for now. So just the keynote in general,

00:04:23 ◼   ► how did everyone feel? I'll start off, the first half to two-thirds I thought was

00:04:27 ◼   ► excellent. There was a lot of enthusiasm. Some of the things that I think the room

00:04:32 ◼   ► found more enthusiastic I was a little, I was slightly surprised by. The room got

00:04:37 ◼   ► really amped up about an announcement with regard to Swift, which we'll talk

00:04:40 ◼   ► about later, but in general I thought it was very good. It wasn't quite the

00:04:44 ◼   ► fast-paced holy crap that was last year in my personal opinion last year I felt

00:04:49 ◼   ► like my hair was getting blown back everything there was so much so fast

00:04:52 ◼   ► this year wasn't that the last third however basically once once Apple music

00:04:58 ◼   ► started things took a turn and we'll talk about that as well but I don't know

00:05:03 ◼   ► Marco what did you think about the whole thing I thought it was great I mean you

00:05:06 ◼   ► know if we just if we consider the first you know three-quarters or whatever like

00:05:11 ◼   ► like the first part before Apple Music,

00:05:14 ◼   ► if Tim Cook would have ended,

00:05:17 ◼   ► and instead of saying one more thing,

00:05:18 ◼   ► said, "Thanks, well this'll be a great week,

00:05:20 ◼   ► "we'll see what you guys can do with this, thanks a lot,"

00:05:23 ◼   ► and that was the end of it.

00:05:24 ◼   ► I think it would have been a very different

00:05:26 ◼   ► overall reaction, and until that point, really,

00:05:29 ◼   ► I think the momentum was very good.

00:05:30 ◼   ► So, they ran through a lot of stuff.

00:05:33 ◼   ► They ran through iOS 9, OS 10, L, is it El Capitan?

00:05:37 ◼   ► Is that how you say that?

00:05:39 ◼   ► El Capitan? - I believe that's right.

00:05:40 ◼   ► - We're gonna have to learn that.

00:05:41 ◼   ► - I guess LCAP, is that an acceptable,

00:05:44 ◼   ► well I'm sure Stephen Hackett's gonna be furious about this,

00:05:46 ◼   ► but I will probably call it LCAP.

00:05:49 ◼   ► - I've heard California people call it LCAP,

00:05:51 ◼   ► so I think that's okay, but you never know

00:05:54 ◼   ► with California people.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Maybe they can say it, but we can't, I don't know.

00:05:57 ◼   ► - Right, like isn't Cali unacceptable if you're not--

00:06:00 ◼   ► - And don't forget Frisco, yep, we're here in Frisco.

00:06:03 ◼   ► - We're here in Frisco Cali.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Oh God, so many people are so angry right now.

00:06:05 ◼   ► - Welcome to Frisco, don't touch anything.

00:06:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:06:08 ◼   ► So I think, you know, starting,

00:06:10 ◼   ► if you start at the beginning, you know, going through it,

00:06:12 ◼   ► first of all, I would say, I took a note of this too,

00:06:15 ◼   ► like the reactions that people had to both Tim Cook

00:06:18 ◼   ► and then to especially Craig Federighi,

00:06:21 ◼   ► these were like roaring cheers,

00:06:23 ◼   ► like more than I've heard since Steve Jobs at these events.

00:06:27 ◼   ► Like people are really pleased with these execs.

00:06:31 ◼   ► It was just very, just positive,

00:06:33 ◼   ► very positive overall for them.

00:06:34 ◼   ► I think, you know, so moving into what they announced,

00:06:36 ◼   ► I mean, so first of all, I thought the opening film

00:06:40 ◼   ► was kind of funny.

00:06:41 ◼   ► I heard a lot of people on Twitter were like,

00:06:43 ◼   ► "Oh, this is lame."

00:06:45 ◼   ► I thought it was cute.

00:06:46 ◼   ► I didn't think it was bad.

00:06:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it played well in the room.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Like of all their opening videos they do

00:06:51 ◼   ► that are supposed to be funny, they're hit or miss.

00:06:52 ◼   ► You know, it doesn't really matter.

00:06:53 ◼   ► But I thought this one was mostly hit

00:06:56 ◼   ► and I didn't hear a lot of groaning from the room.

00:06:59 ◼   ► - At that point.

00:07:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, the worst thing you could say

00:07:03 ◼   ► about the opening video is that it didn't seem

00:07:05 ◼   ► particularly relevant, which you can kind of imagine

00:07:07 ◼   ► has to be that way, 'cause if you're gonna get

00:07:09 ◼   ► a bunch of celebrities and someone to produce

00:07:10 ◼   ► this video for you and everything, you can't,

00:07:12 ◼   ► like what if they had filmed a whole bunch of stuff

00:07:15 ◼   ► about the new Apple TV, or teases about the new Apple TV

00:07:18 ◼   ► and then they had to can it, so the opening joke

00:07:20 ◼   ► can't be about anything that announced,

00:07:22 ◼   ► but then you're like, well why is it even here?

00:07:23 ◼   ► Is it just wasting time?

00:07:25 ◼   ► Is it trying to entertain me?

00:07:26 ◼   ► The only thing I would really ding the opening video on

00:07:28 ◼   ► is making a joke about Objective C and not mentioning Swift.

00:07:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:07:33 ◼   ► - No, I thought it was good, 'cause what was it,

00:07:34 ◼   ► Bill Hader, Bill Heater, I forget how you say it.

00:07:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was that Saturday Night Live guy.

00:07:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, and he's awesome.

00:07:38 ◼   ► And so I thought as a cheesy and campy opening video,

00:07:43 ◼   ► it was about as delightful a cheesy and campy opening video

00:07:47 ◼   ► as one could really hope for.

00:07:48 ◼   ► So I give that two thumbs up.

00:07:50 ◼   ► I thought it was fine.

00:07:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so I think you can look in the room

00:07:56 ◼   ► and you can say, you're right, playing to that room,

00:07:58 ◼   ► it worked.

00:07:59 ◼   ► It was lighthearted.

00:08:01 ◼   ► They know they're not gonna get comedy awards

00:08:03 ◼   ► or the things they produce or anything,

00:08:04 ◼   ► but it was lighthearted and it was nice, it was pleasant,

00:08:08 ◼   ► parts of it were very funny, I thought, and it was fine.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And they usually open up with jokey videos.

00:08:13 ◼   ► There was that Siri video a few years ago and stuff like that.

00:08:16 ◼   ► That's not new, to open up with a jokey video,

00:08:18 ◼   ► so that's fine.

00:08:19 ◼   ► - And this referenced third-party apps.

00:08:20 ◼   ► You had the little crows from Monument Valley in there,

00:08:23 ◼   ► you got Angry Birds, of course.

00:08:24 ◼   ► - There was a lot in there.

00:08:26 ◼   ► - So if you're playing through a room full of developers,

00:08:29 ◼   ► referencing a bunch of third-party apps is a good bet.

00:08:31 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:08:32 ◼   ► So, let's see, the first thing I have here.

00:08:37 ◼   ► - Put your laptop in front of you so you can stay on mic.

00:08:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, right?

00:08:43 ◼   ► So they went over OS X first.

00:08:46 ◼   ► And so, man, I wish we had somebody in the room

00:08:50 ◼   ► who was an OS X expert.

00:08:52 ◼   ► - Like I tweeted, OS X still gets top billing,

00:08:55 ◼   ► which isn't really true because the last spot's the good one.

00:08:58 ◼   ► But anyway, as I said, just let me have this one.

00:09:01 ◼   ► OS X top billing.

00:09:04 ◼   ► That keynote was so long--

00:09:06 ◼   ► I'm not going to say it had so much stuff in it,

00:09:08 ◼   ► but it was so long that now I'm thinking back,

00:09:10 ◼   ► what did they announce for OS X?

00:09:12 ◼   ► Well, it got its own name.

00:09:16 ◼   ► And it's not Snow Yosemite or Snow-sem-ity.

00:09:18 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:09:20 ◼   ► Like, you think, oh, who cares what its name is.

00:09:22 ◼   ► But that is a signal that Apple has used in the past

00:09:25 ◼   ► to indicate an OS release that is merely the previous OS

00:09:30 ◼   ► release but kind of cleaned up a little bit. You had Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion and

00:09:36 ◼   ► those were all modifiers of Leopard and Lion and that sends a clear signal about the intention

00:09:40 ◼   ► of the OS. This one does El Capitan which is kind of a modified version of Yosemite

00:09:44 ◼   ► because it's a thing that's in Yosemite but it's still trying to stand on its own. The

00:09:51 ◼   ► thing that struck me about it is, and I'm still looking at it from a reviewist's perspective,

00:09:55 ◼   ► I'm like, man, the screenshots are going to look exactly the same this year as they did

00:09:59 ◼   ► last year because last year was the big overhaul of how everything looks and this year I don't

00:10:03 ◼   ► was there anything to look different? The font's different. Yeah other than the font

00:10:07 ◼   ► but I. That's kind of big. It's only big to people who care about fonts. I can tell you

00:10:12 ◼   ► that vanishingly small number of people can even notice in like a test is this Helvetica

00:10:18 ◼   ► or you know charcoal or SB Sans or Chicago, well maybe they can tell Chicago but yeah

00:10:25 ◼   ► It is a new font, but other than that, I don't think there's even any new controls or effects

00:10:32 ◼   ► or widgets or anything like that.

00:10:34 ◼   ► This is going to look very similar in the reviews, and everything they concentrated

00:10:36 ◼   ► on were a few underpinning text and a bunch of new features for apps.

00:10:40 ◼   ► It did not look like a big OS release.

00:10:44 ◼   ► The other thing that struck me, since this was their first announcement, is that you're

00:10:47 ◼   ► going to show us this new OS.

00:10:48 ◼   ► It's going to have a whole bunch of stuff in it that is kind of like, "Well, it's like

00:10:52 ◼   ► Yosemite but a couple things are better or improved or whatever. They did not emphasize

00:10:58 ◼   ► the idea that we're taking this year to sort of make things perform better and make more

00:11:02 ◼   ► stable. They did not hammer that at all. They merely just didn't say anything. They just

00:11:06 ◼   ► said this is, you know, OS X El Capitan, here's what it has in it, and these things that it

00:11:12 ◼   ► has is great, and moving on. They did not emphasize where, like they did, they hit it

00:11:17 ◼   ► It was no, to say zero new features, we're really going to try to buckle down this time

00:11:25 ◼   ► and concentrate on the core OS.

00:11:27 ◼   ► I think they are doing that, but they didn't say that in the messaging.

00:11:30 ◼   ► That I think would be a theme throughout, because a lot of the announcements in this

00:11:33 ◼   ► keynote were like that, but it was unspoken.

00:11:36 ◼   ► In the past show I said, "Hey, they can get lots of applause lines by saying that."

00:11:40 ◼   ► They didn't go for them.

00:11:41 ◼   ► They didn't go for that type of line.

00:11:43 ◼   ► They just sort of went with the positives and didn't put it in the context of, "We know

00:11:48 ◼   ► that iOS 8 and Yosemite were big releases and there are a bunch of bugs that you wish

00:11:53 ◼   ► we would fix."

00:11:54 ◼   ► >> I disagree.

00:11:55 ◼   ► I think they did.

00:11:56 ◼   ► I mean, so the way Federighi introduced it, he said there were like, you know, like these

00:12:01 ◼   ► handful of headlining features.

00:12:02 ◼   ► There was spotlight enhancements, some things to the built-in apps, window management, and

00:12:07 ◼   ► performance.

00:12:08 ◼   ► And then, and metal was part of performance.

00:12:09 ◼   ► >> But performance is not a big Yosemite.

00:12:10 ◼   ► But here, I put it in legal terms.

00:12:12 ◼   ► - They admitted no wrongdoing.

00:12:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:12:15 ◼   ► - That's true, that's true.

00:12:15 ◼   ► - They did a settlement and they say,

00:12:17 ◼   ► but of course Apple admits no wrongdoing.

00:12:18 ◼   ► - That's fair.

00:12:19 ◼   ► Well, but, first of all, I think that's very heavily implied

00:12:22 ◼   ► by the clear slowdown in headlining marketable features

00:12:27 ◼   ► of these two OSs.

00:12:29 ◼   ► But also, I think, even with Snow Leopard,

00:12:32 ◼   ► they didn't say, man, Leopard was a piece of crap.

00:12:34 ◼   ► We're fixing it.

00:12:35 ◼   ► They said we're working on making things better

00:12:37 ◼   ► under the hood faster.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - They said they were regrouping.

00:12:40 ◼   ► They had to say, "Why are we making a thing

00:12:42 ◼   ► "with no new features?"

00:12:44 ◼   ► Because it's like a regrouping or rebuilding year.

00:12:46 ◼   ► That is what we're doing with this endeavor.

00:12:49 ◼   ► They didn't feel the need to excuse anything

00:12:52 ◼   ► about El Capitan.

00:12:53 ◼   ► They didn't feel the need to explain

00:12:55 ◼   ► why it didn't have as many new features to demo as Yosemite,

00:12:58 ◼   ► or why the features were less dramatic.

00:13:00 ◼   ► At no point did they put it in the context

00:13:01 ◼   ► of past releases, characterizing this release

00:13:03 ◼   ► as small or less significant in any way.

00:13:07 ◼   ► And I think that's fine.

00:13:09 ◼   ► it's a perfectly valid way to go,

00:13:10 ◼   ► I just thought they would have gone for it

00:13:12 ◼   ► to get sort of the credit for what it is they're doing.

00:13:15 ◼   ► And it seems like, it's not like a power,

00:13:17 ◼   ► like I don't think they want it to embarrass themselves.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Not that you're gonna say your previous OS

00:13:21 ◼   ► was a piece of crap, but to put this new release in context

00:13:25 ◼   ► and say this release is a smaller release

00:13:27 ◼   ► than our previous one, and that is a conscious choice,

00:13:30 ◼   ► and it's good for consumers because of X, Y, and Z.

00:13:33 ◼   ► They didn't say that.

00:13:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true.

00:13:35 ◼   ► What do you think of the name?

00:13:36 ◼   ► Because I don't dig it.

00:13:38 ◼   ► I don't think I really like the California themed names at all because they don't mean anything to me.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Like I can get behind Tiger and Leopard and even Snow Leopard.

00:13:48 ◼   ► And granted, there aren't snow leopards running around Virginia, but I mean everyone can associate, can understand and appreciate animals.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Whereas these, to me, kind of esoteric places in California, they just carry no weight to me.

00:14:01 ◼   ► Like John, I'm especially curious to hear you.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I like that naming theme because I think there are so many options.

00:14:06 ◼   ► And I like this name admittedly because it was the name of the tower case.

00:14:09 ◼   ► I believe it was the name of the entire tower case design that the Power Mac G3 and G4 came

00:14:14 ◼   ► in.

00:14:15 ◼   ► This was the name of that thing.

00:14:18 ◼   ► But they sound cool.

00:14:20 ◼   ► With the exception of Mavericks, two out of three so far have been names that people know

00:14:23 ◼   ► throughout the whole country.

00:14:25 ◼   ► People know what Yosemite is and I think people know what this is, even if they didn't know

00:14:27 ◼   ► about the case code names.

00:14:30 ◼   ► And that's kind of what a name has to be.

00:14:31 ◼   ► It's just a filler marketing name.

00:14:33 ◼   ► It's better than a number. It's better than the name of a wine. It's less highfalutin

00:14:40 ◼   ► than whatever. I don't even know what the wine name for this one is. Someone could look

00:14:43 ◼   ► it up on the rumor sites. So I don't mind it. And the OS itself, the things they changed

00:14:49 ◼   ► are all like, "Yeah, that was kind of silly that that was limited that way." And, "Oh,

00:14:53 ◼   ► that does look like a cool feature, but I don't care because I don't use that app."

00:14:57 ◼   ► So all the things they didn't talk about, like if you have Discovery-D problems and

00:15:00 ◼   ► and this solves them, that will be worth the hassle of upgrading alone. But they didn't

00:15:04 ◼   ► talk about that at all because they would have to put that in context and sort of admit

00:15:08 ◼   ► wrongdoing there.

00:15:09 ◼   ► >> Right, right. I don't know, what else did they talk about for OS X? I kind of blanked

00:15:15 ◼   ► in terms of my notes on what happened. There was the--

00:15:17 ◼   ► >> Well, there was the window management stuff, the new like kind of like split screen enhancements

00:15:20 ◼   ► to mission control and stuff like that. I mean, and that's all, I think, fairly lightweight,

00:15:24 ◼   ► but it's nice.

00:15:25 ◼   ► >> Well, the window management I think is interesting to me from the perspective, from

00:15:30 ◼   ► From my perspective, how I manage Windows,

00:15:33 ◼   ► and Windows itself, Microsoft Windows,

00:15:36 ◼   ► has done this thing,

00:15:38 ◼   ► they sort of dragged the window to the side

00:15:39 ◼   ► and have it fill the half screen or whatever,

00:15:41 ◼   ► and of course Linux window managers

00:15:42 ◼   ► have been doing this for ages as well.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Marco, are you okay?

00:15:46 ◼   ► Are you dying over there?

00:15:46 ◼   ► - I'm fine.

00:15:47 ◼   ► - All right.

00:15:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, you can't just get away with it now

00:15:50 ◼   ► 'cause we're all in the same room.

00:15:51 ◼   ► - But the whole idea of a tiling window manager

00:15:55 ◼   ► is the opposite of how I manage Windows.

00:15:57 ◼   ► I manage windows with overlapping windows.

00:16:01 ◼   ► The way that Mac window management

00:16:02 ◼   ► has been done since the dawn of the Mac, windows overlap.

00:16:05 ◼   ► And even when I even use the same vocabulary,

00:16:07 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, I tile my windows.

00:16:09 ◼   ► But what tile means is what they were showing,

00:16:12 ◼   ► where the windows don't overlap.

00:16:13 ◼   ► And you divide the screen into fourths or thirds or whatever,

00:16:16 ◼   ► vertically, horizontally.

00:16:17 ◼   ► And the windows don't overlap.

00:16:19 ◼   ► And when I say tile, it's probably the wrong word.

00:16:21 ◼   ► I mean that they overlap and are staggered one after the other.

00:16:27 ◼   ► So I think for people who want to,

00:16:29 ◼   ► people who are stuck in full screen mode,

00:16:31 ◼   ► this may help shake them out of it and say,

00:16:32 ◼   ► "Hey, you've got this big giant screen,

00:16:33 ◼   ► "don't make your text editor window

00:16:35 ◼   ► "fill your entire 24 inch screen

00:16:36 ◼   ► "because you're not gonna write lines

00:16:37 ◼   ► "that are 700 characters long."

00:16:39 ◼   ► Maybe, I don't know, split your screen vertically

00:16:42 ◼   ► and have two things.

00:16:44 ◼   ► It'll help people along who are addicted

00:16:48 ◼   ► to full screen apps, even on giant monitors,

00:16:50 ◼   ► and maybe on small monitors it'll give them a chance,

00:16:51 ◼   ► and there's a nice symmetry with iOS 9's features

00:16:53 ◼   ► that we'll talk about later.

00:16:55 ◼   ► But from my perspective, this is window management

00:16:58 ◼   ► that is not even up to the complexity of third-party Mac

00:17:02 ◼   ► apps that have been around for ages, like Divi and Moom.

00:17:05 ◼   ► Moom, as it's called.

00:17:05 ◼   ► There's a bunch of other ones that are like that.

00:17:07 ◼   ► I just don't have interest in these things.

00:17:08 ◼   ► So these features of El Capitan don't interest me.

00:17:11 ◼   ► But I think it's good that they're there to sort of be

00:17:14 ◼   ► like training wheels for people who aren't very good at window

00:17:17 ◼   ► management, to say, here are some more options.

00:17:20 ◼   ► And they're built into the OS, and you don't have to install

00:17:22 ◼   ► a scary third-party app.

00:17:23 ◼   ► And maybe they will help you feel comfortable with Windows

00:17:26 ◼   ► in a way that you don't currently feel comfortable.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Yeah, that's fair.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Was it during the OS X portion that they

00:17:33 ◼   ► announced that core animation is moving to Metal instead

00:17:35 ◼   ► of OpenGL?

00:17:36 ◼   ► Well, they announced that Metal was coming to OS X.

00:17:38 ◼   ► And there's a lot of announcements this year

00:17:39 ◼   ► like, yeah, we all figured that from last year.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Like, it announced Metal, and it's iOS only.

00:17:44 ◼   ► And it's like, why is it iOS only?

00:17:45 ◼   ► The only reason you can think of is

00:17:47 ◼   ► because they have limited resources and time,

00:17:48 ◼   ► and iOS is more important, and it will come to the Mac

00:17:50 ◼   ► eventually.

00:17:51 ◼   ► And it did.

00:17:52 ◼   ► and they put their stuff on top of it, and it's good.

00:17:54 ◼   ► You know, thumbs up, like.

00:17:55 ◼   ► And Craig Fader, where you threw up the horns.

00:17:59 ◼   ► - Well of course.

00:18:00 ◼   ► - Briefly, I'm pretty sure.

00:18:01 ◼   ► Marco needs to see what the horns are.

00:18:02 ◼   ► These are the horns, Marco.

00:18:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:18:04 ◼   ► - Is that a reference?

00:18:05 ◼   ► - Mess with the bull, you get the horns, okay?

00:18:06 ◼   ► - Oh God.

00:18:07 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Neither one of you get that, do you?

00:18:10 ◼   ► - No, I know that's a reference.

00:18:12 ◼   ► I don't know from where.

00:18:13 ◼   ► You should see--

00:18:14 ◼   ► - Chat room is silently shaming you.

00:18:15 ◼   ► You can't see it from the top of me.

00:18:16 ◼   ► - You should see.

00:18:17 ◼   ► This is different now, because I can see the disdain.

00:18:20 ◼   ► - The disgust, yeah, you can see it.

00:18:21 ◼   ► absolute disgust on John's face. Typically I'm behind a monitor, and we don't do video

00:18:26 ◼   ► when we record, so I don't get to see how unbelievably upset and frustrated John is.

00:18:33 ◼   ► But this time I did.

00:18:34 ◼   ► I think he threw up the horns again. I don't have the video to look at.

00:18:37 ◼   ► I thought he had as well. That's alright. What else happened to Noah Stendate? You know,

00:18:41 ◼   ► they didn't do, it just occurred to me, they didn't do Control Center, right? Or did I

00:18:44 ◼   ► totally miss that?

00:18:45 ◼   ► Control Center.

00:18:46 ◼   ► They were talking about doing the same thing where you swipe up from the bottom on iOS

00:18:50 ◼   ► whether you were gonna swipe from the left

00:18:52 ◼   ► on a notification center type thing, but the other side.

00:18:54 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:18:55 ◼   ► That was a pretty solid rumor, I thought, up until--

00:18:57 ◼   ► - I think Mark Erman was wrong about that.

00:18:59 ◼   ► - Well, or maybe we just don't know it yet,

00:19:00 ◼   ► but I-- - It could still be there.

00:19:02 ◼   ► That type of stuff, but maybe it gets cut.

00:19:03 ◼   ► - I think they would've showed that off.

00:19:04 ◼   ► - I think so, too.

00:19:06 ◼   ► - I'm kinda glad it's not there, honestly.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Like, when I heard these rumors,

00:19:08 ◼   ► I was not looking forward to that, honestly.

00:19:10 ◼   ► - Gonna save something for next year.

00:19:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:19:13 ◼   ► All right, so before we move on to iOS,

00:19:16 ◼   ► let's talk about our first sponsor.

00:19:18 ◼   ► It is our friends at Cards Against Humanity.

00:19:21 ◼   ► Now, Cards Against Humanity, rather than actually

00:19:25 ◼   ► giving us a sponsorship to read,

00:19:27 ◼   ► they have asked Jon to review a toaster.

00:19:30 ◼   ► So Jon, what is the toaster of the week?

00:19:33 ◼   ► - So this week's toaster is the Hamilton Beach

00:19:35 ◼   ► Toast Station, model 22722.

00:19:38 ◼   ► - That's it?

00:19:39 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:19:40 ◼   ► - Both of you pull this up, because this is,

00:19:42 ◼   ► this marks a turning point, I think, in our toaster review.

00:19:44 ◼   ► - What is this abomination?

00:19:46 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - What is this abomination?

00:19:47 ◼   ► - This is an octoparrot.

00:19:50 ◼   ► It's not a referring toaster.

00:19:51 ◼   ► It is kind of an octoparrot.

00:19:53 ◼   ► - What is that?

00:19:54 ◼   ► - Polly shouldn't be.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Casey does not get that reference.

00:19:56 ◼   ► - Nope.

00:19:57 ◼   ► - Neither does Marco.

00:19:58 ◼   ► This thing, I will describe it for you.

00:20:00 ◼   ► It looks like a toaster oven,

00:20:01 ◼   ► and seeing it in person,

00:20:03 ◼   ► it's like my Breville toaster oven was cut in half,

00:20:06 ◼   ► so it was half the depth,

00:20:07 ◼   ► so it sticks out from the wall of my kitchen half as far.

00:20:10 ◼   ► So that's the first chop.

00:20:12 ◼   ► And the second chop is vertically,

00:20:14 ◼   ► where the door that opens up

00:20:16 ◼   ► is half the height of the toaster.

00:20:17 ◼   ► And what are they doing with the rest

00:20:18 ◼   ► of the vertical head of the toaster?

00:20:20 ◼   ► There's a slot in the top where you put pieces

00:20:23 ◼   ► of bread product in and push down a knob on the side.

00:20:26 ◼   ► This is a slot toaster and a toaster oven in one.

00:20:28 ◼   ► We will put the link in the show notes so you can look at it.

00:20:30 ◼   ► It's kind of like one of those magician's boxes

00:20:32 ◼   ► where you expect there's like mirrors in there.

00:20:33 ◼   ► It's like when you push down the toast,

00:20:35 ◼   ► where does the toast go?

00:20:36 ◼   ► Well, there are no mirrors.

00:20:37 ◼   ► It's not magic.

00:20:37 ◼   ► When you put toast in the top of this thing in a slot

00:20:39 ◼   ► and push them down, they sit vertically

00:20:42 ◼   ► in the middle of the toaster oven.

00:20:43 ◼   ► So you can't use the slot toaster portion

00:20:44 ◼   ► in the regular oven portion at the same time.

00:20:47 ◼   ► Well, that's not that unreasonable.

00:20:49 ◼   ► Right.

00:20:49 ◼   ► Well, so here's the thing.

00:20:50 ◼   ► Like a refrigerator toaster, this has many, many compromised.

00:20:55 ◼   ► Right?

00:20:55 ◼   ► Well, first let's talk about the interface.

00:20:57 ◼   ► It has an on/off switch, which is nice.

00:20:59 ◼   ► So you can turn the darkness knob to whatever you want

00:21:02 ◼   ► and then use the on/off switch.

00:21:03 ◼   ► But it also, of course, has the toaster plunger part,

00:21:05 ◼   ► where you don't use the on/off switch then.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Then you just push down the little plunger

00:21:08 ◼   ► if you're using the slot toaster thing.

00:21:10 ◼   ► The supposed benefits of slot toasters is that it toasts

00:21:13 ◼   ► faster.

00:21:14 ◼   ► And this is a little bit faster, it's like three minutes for two slices, which is a little

00:21:18 ◼   ► bit faster than the Breville.

00:21:19 ◼   ► But it's not that much faster because it's got two sort of quartz heating elements on

00:21:23 ◼   ► the bottom and then it's got one heating element on the side of the slot and one heating element

00:21:28 ◼   ► on the other side of the slot.

00:21:30 ◼   ► That does speed things up a little bit.

00:21:33 ◼   ► But what do you trade that for?

00:21:34 ◼   ► Well, you put things in the slot toaster on the top and they come out not very evenly

00:21:39 ◼   ► browned at all, which kind of makes sense because it's just one heating element on either

00:21:42 ◼   ► side.

00:21:43 ◼   ► toaster where they have all the resistive wires going all over it, gives nice even heat

00:21:47 ◼   ► over the whole piece of bread. These things come out super spotty, like big dark spots,

00:21:51 ◼   ► big spots that are underdone. And the first time I tried to use it, I put English muffins

00:21:56 ◼   ► in the top, and the slot is very wide, I'm assuming to be able to support bagels, but

00:21:59 ◼   ► it doesn't grip things very closely. So I put English muffins, which are not very wide

00:22:04 ◼   ► in there, and pressed it down, and then tried to pop them back up, and one of the English

00:22:08 ◼   ► muffins had to sort of like bent over because there was too much room in the slot and it

00:22:11 ◼   ► curled back on itself. When I popped it up, it had like crunched over and didn't pop back

00:22:15 ◼   ► up and I had to fish it out with a knife. This is the very first time I'm using this

00:22:18 ◼   ► thing. So the slot toaster is crap. Like, it does not toast as well as a real slot toaster

00:22:22 ◼   ► does. It's a little bit faster than a toaster oven, but when you get out of it, it's worthless.

00:22:25 ◼   ► I would never toast anything in that. It's worse than all of my toaster ovens. It is

00:22:30 ◼   ► not evenly browned. It is not very fast. And then the toaster oven portion is super small.

00:22:34 ◼   ► You can only put two slices of bread in there. Your height is compromised. The little door

00:22:38 ◼   ► that you open it super chintzy feeling and when the thing is done it makes this

00:22:41 ◼   ► terrible long beeping sequence that you wish would stop like it beeps two times

00:22:45 ◼   ► you pull out the toaster just keeps beeping and keeps beeping this is the

00:22:49 ◼   ► new champion for the worst toaster that we have ever tested it is not a good

00:22:53 ◼   ► toaster oven it is not a good slot toaster it and people keep sending this

00:22:56 ◼   ► to me when we were talking about hey you should check this out it's a slot toaster

00:22:58 ◼   ► and toaster oven it is bad at both of those jobs do not buy this product I do

00:23:02 ◼   ► not understand how it has a three and a half star rating on Amazon

00:23:07 ◼   ► That's amazing. So what you're saying is that this is not as good as your other toasters?

00:23:14 ◼   ► It's not, it's just not good. Like the picture they have, the second picture on Amazon, if

00:23:18 ◼   ► you swipe, it shows like this beautifully brown bread coming out. That does not happen.

00:23:22 ◼   ► No bread that looks like that ever comes out of this toaster.

00:23:26 ◼   ► So you're saying that slot toasters may not be sufficient for you?

00:23:30 ◼   ► This is not a slot toaster. I think slot toasters are fine, or would do better than this. Because

00:23:33 ◼   ► again, slot toasters have lots of, you ever see them with little wires that glow orange

00:23:36 ◼   ► inside them there's a whole bunch of those wires crystalized and they brown it evenly

00:23:39 ◼   ► this just has two toaster oven elements sitting on either side of the slots and it also turns

00:23:44 ◼   ► on the two bottom ones it's a mess this was like someone thought it would be a good idea

00:23:48 ◼   ► but it's totally not how much does this cost I didn't even look well it's like $32 it is

00:23:51 ◼   ► $30 so you kind of get what you pay for but please don't buy this mine was red the only

00:23:57 ◼   ► thing it has to recommend is that mine came in red which is kind of cool looking but other

00:24:00 ◼   ► - Other than that.

00:24:01 ◼   ► - Does it match your toaster?

00:24:02 ◼   ► - Thumbs down.

00:24:03 ◼   ► - So fun fact, Hamilton Beach's headquarters

00:24:07 ◼   ► are in Richmond, Virginia.

00:24:09 ◼   ► - You can go there and throw eggs at it later.

00:24:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:24:12 ◼   ► I think we've done another Hamilton Beach toaster,

00:24:14 ◼   ► but I don't remember what the model was.

00:24:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's all right.

00:24:16 ◼   ► - So thanks a lot to Cards Against Humanity

00:24:18 ◼   ► for sponsoring our show once again.

00:24:20 ◼   ► - All right. - So iOS 9.

00:24:22 ◼   ► - Well, are we done with OS X?

00:24:24 ◼   ► I think we're never done with OS X.

00:24:25 ◼   ► - As far as any of us can remember from the keynote,

00:24:28 ◼   ► - Probably, but as I go to sessions and learn new things,

00:24:31 ◼   ► I'm sure new things will come up.

00:24:32 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

00:24:33 ◼   ► - But the keynote, they didn't spend much time on it, right?

00:24:35 ◼   ► - Well, it wasn't that much, no.

00:24:37 ◼   ► Okay, so I'm sorry, Marco, carry on.

00:24:38 ◼   ► - All right, so big hill-lining features of iOS 9

00:24:42 ◼   ► were a lot of the API improvements,

00:24:43 ◼   ► and then user-facing stuff,

00:24:44 ◼   ► there's this new proactive assistant,

00:24:46 ◼   ► and part of this is on OS X as well,

00:24:47 ◼   ► in the new spotlight window.

00:24:50 ◼   ► It seemed like this is a lot of similar kinds of stuff.

00:24:53 ◼   ► So big disappointment for me,

00:24:56 ◼   ► the forced search page on Springboard is now back.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Remember the way it used to be

00:25:02 ◼   ► where Spotlight was a page on the left?

00:25:03 ◼   ► - Yep, yep.

00:25:04 ◼   ► - Now it's still, now once again, it's a page on the left.

00:25:07 ◼   ► But besides that, it looks pretty good.

00:25:09 ◼   ► I'm curious to see, I mean, they seem to be integrating

00:25:13 ◼   ► a whole lot of web service type stuff in here,

00:25:17 ◼   ► web data results, it really is a continuation of them

00:25:23 ◼   ► kind of encroached you on Google's territory.

00:25:26 ◼   ► And not in some ways, and not quite to the degree

00:25:30 ◼   ► Google does these things, but you could tell

00:25:32 ◼   ► that's kind of the direction they're trying to go in.

00:25:35 ◼   ► I don't know, I mean, to me, I have found things

00:25:39 ◼   ► like the Safari autocomplete for websites

00:25:42 ◼   ► that doesn't use Google at all.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Things like the current spotlight on iOS 8

00:25:47 ◼   ► that tries to integrate web and app store results

00:25:49 ◼   ► and everything, it has some problems sometimes,

00:25:51 ◼   ► but for the most part, this stuff works pretty well for me.

00:25:54 ◼   ► So this looks like a pretty good continuation

00:25:56 ◼   ► of that process, and I'm really excited

00:25:59 ◼   ► about the app indexing kind of thing,

00:26:01 ◼   ► where you can, like now apps, either through their websites

00:26:04 ◼   ► or through the app itself on the phone,

00:26:06 ◼   ► they can publish searchable data for Spotlight

00:26:10 ◼   ► and for Siri, and that's pretty cool.

00:26:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's pretty fascinating.

00:26:12 ◼   ► What was interesting to me about the whole iOS 9 section

00:26:14 ◼   ► was we got to see how Apple, well, maybe not the mechanisms,

00:26:19 ◼   ► but the features that Apple is putting together to try to combat, what is it, Google Now,

00:26:26 ◼   ► where, you know, Google will--since Google, in many cases, has all of your data, it knows

00:26:31 ◼   ► when you're going to fly next and when you're going--when you need to have another--when

00:26:35 ◼   ► you have another appointment. Server-side, Google can look at that and say, "Oh, well,

00:26:39 ◼   ► Casey is supposed to go to dinner with Aaron in 20 minutes, but traffic says if he doesn't

00:26:45 ◼   ► and leave now, he's going to miss it.

00:26:47 ◼   ► And it was interesting seeing how Apple's trying to create

00:26:50 ◼   ► some of that Google Now functionality, but without

00:26:53 ◼   ► crawling all your data server-side.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Now, what was very hand-wavy and don't worry your pretty

00:26:58 ◼   ► little faces was, well, how are they really accomplishing

00:27:01 ◼   ► that on the device?

00:27:02 ◼   ► And the implication was--

00:27:04 ◼   ► and in many ways, the statement was, well, it's all

00:27:06 ◼   ► happening on the device, so it's fine, it's fine, it's

00:27:08 ◼   ► fine-- and they made a lot of indirect and direct comments

00:27:12 ◼   ► about privacy and about, "Oh, it's under your control. Everything is on. The users own all

00:27:18 ◼   ► this data. We don't want to know." Actually, they literally occasionally said, "We don't

00:27:22 ◼   ► want to know." Often they said, "We don't know or can't know." And so it was very interesting

00:27:27 ◼   ► to me to see Apple's reaction to that kind of omnipresent Google that people either love

00:27:34 ◼   ► or hate, depending on what your particular opinion is.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know if that strategy... I can't tell if that strategy is like, "This is our

00:27:40 ◼   ► corporate differentiator, this is what we believe as people that we don't want that

00:27:44 ◼   ► thing or that it's like that's what they have. They don't have the server capacity.

00:27:48 ◼   ► So we're thinking about the on-device stuff, right? So Google checks your email, figures

00:27:52 ◼   ► out that you have a flight and can do all that stuff because it sees your email everywhere,

00:27:57 ◼   ► right? Whereas Apple's like, oh, this all happens on device. And that sounds fine to

00:28:00 ◼   ► you, like, well, but what if I don't check that mail account on my iPad? Does that mean

00:28:04 ◼   ► my iPad doesn't know I have a flight? And if it's all on device, the answer is, yeah.

00:28:08 ◼   ► How could the iPad know that you have a flight if you're not checking that email account

00:28:12 ◼   ► from your iPad?

00:28:13 ◼   ► Maybe it doesn't matter.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Maybe people don't have 50 email accounts and they check all their email accounts on

00:28:16 ◼   ► every device or whatever.

00:28:17 ◼   ► But basically, the smarts are isolated and confined to the data that's on that device.

00:28:22 ◼   ► But your life may encompass more data than is on any single device.

00:28:27 ◼   ► And so how can it get a picture of my whole life if all the stuff is necessarily local?

00:28:32 ◼   ► I feel like if Apple is going to make more intelligent features, it's going to have to

00:28:35 ◼   ► eventually move away from that.

00:28:36 ◼   ► And I don't think that's such a big deal.

00:28:38 ◼   ► They don't read our iMessages.

00:28:39 ◼   ► The iMessages are all two-way encrypted.

00:28:41 ◼   ► But there should be a way-- you need some global awareness

00:28:45 ◼   ► that is not confined to a device to do really smart things.

00:28:48 ◼   ► So this is a good start for Apple.

00:28:49 ◼   ► You can do lots of smart things just on the device.

00:28:51 ◼   ► But if you tried to explain to a person,

00:28:58 ◼   ► it's hard to say because the watch is not

00:29:00 ◼   ► really an independent device or whatever.

00:29:01 ◼   ► But why doesn't my iPad know that I have a flight?

00:29:05 ◼   ► If I use Google, everything knows.

00:29:07 ◼   ► when I'm on-- and if you use Google,

00:29:08 ◼   ► when I'm on my computer at work, it

00:29:09 ◼   ► pops up a thing in my face that says, oh, don't

00:29:11 ◼   ► forget about your flight.

00:29:12 ◼   ► But on my Apple stuff, only my phone knows.

00:29:15 ◼   ► Why is that?

00:29:16 ◼   ► Well, because you're at work and you're not checking

00:29:18 ◼   ► your home email and your work thing.

00:29:20 ◼   ► You're just checking your exchange.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Trying to explain to them the technical intricacies,

00:29:23 ◼   ► they won't understand.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Then you try to explain, well, it's for privacy reasons.

00:29:27 ◼   ► So Apple doesn't have your data.

00:29:28 ◼   ► And they're like, well, I just want

00:29:29 ◼   ► to let computers tell me where my flight is.

00:29:31 ◼   ► This is the thing that frustrates Marco so much,

00:29:33 ◼   ► that people don't care as much about privacy,

00:29:36 ◼   ► certainly as Marco does, and perhaps not even as much as Apple does. I think their biggest,

00:29:40 ◼   ► their best selling point is we won't sell your stuff for third parties, we won't give

00:29:43 ◼   ► your stuff for third parties. Like if you decide that you trust Apple for whatever reason,

00:29:48 ◼   ► you only have to trust us, you don't have to trust us and everybody we will ever do

00:29:50 ◼   ► business for, which is technically not true because Apple could give you information to

00:29:54 ◼   ► whoever the hell they wanted, but their current terms and conditions and their current strategies,

00:29:57 ◼   ► they're telling you, hey, that's their value proposition, give your data to Apple, we won't

00:30:01 ◼   ► look at it, we won't give it to anybody else. That I think is a little bit easier to sell

00:30:05 ◼   ► for people who are scared of privacy, but I think history has shown that people are

00:30:08 ◼   ► like, "Alright, well, fine, whatever. I have all my data. I just want to know what my flight

00:30:10 ◼   ► is no matter where I am." So I think Apple is going to, not this year, but some future

00:30:16 ◼   ► generation, come up against this barrier and say, "We've done everything we can do local.

00:30:20 ◼   ► How do we get sort of information about you and your life that spans all of our devices

00:30:27 ◼   ► while still keeping your data private?" And I'm not entirely sure they know yet.

00:30:30 ◼   ► - Well, and you know, I think time will tell.

00:30:33 ◼   ► I mean, you know, Apple is really hitting home on this,

00:30:36 ◼   ► or driving this home because I think you're right

00:30:38 ◼   ► that this is some of what they believe.

00:30:41 ◼   ► That they truly believe this is very important.

00:30:44 ◼   ► But also, this is obviously a competitive differentiator.

00:30:46 ◼   ► And I don't think the market cares as much as Apple does.

00:30:51 ◼   ► That might not be a bad thing.

00:30:52 ◼   ► I mean, the market doesn't care about attention to detail

00:30:54 ◼   ► as much as Apple does, or design as much as Apple does

00:30:57 ◼   ► in general either.

00:30:58 ◼   ► That doesn't mean they shouldn't do those things

00:31:00 ◼   ► and that doesn't appeal to a lot of people anyway.

00:31:02 ◼   ► - I think that that influences people

00:31:05 ◼   ► on sort of a subconscious level, right?

00:31:08 ◼   ► Whereas these privacy things I'm not sure they do,

00:31:10 ◼   ► I'm not sure people are even aware of.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Like, we talked about this with iMessage,

00:31:14 ◼   ► I talked about it when I was on Rocket.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Like, the privacy advantages of iMessage

00:31:19 ◼   ► are really beyond people's knowing.

00:31:22 ◼   ► All they know is like,

00:31:23 ◼   ► if I looked at this conversation on my Mac

00:31:25 ◼   ► and then I looked at it on my phone

00:31:27 ◼   ► and some stuff wasn't in both places.

00:31:28 ◼   ► and they don't understand why.

00:31:30 ◼   ► And if you try to explain to them they don't care,

00:31:32 ◼   ► they just want it to be everywhere.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Like Google works the way people,

00:31:35 ◼   ► Google stuff works the way people think

00:31:37 ◼   ► modern computers should work.

00:31:38 ◼   ► And when anybody ever gets used to my stuff everywhere,

00:31:41 ◼   ► anything that is not everywhere,

00:31:43 ◼   ► they think of it as a bug.

00:31:44 ◼   ► Like oh, well my Google stuff is everywhere.

00:31:46 ◼   ► I like that better.

00:31:47 ◼   ► - Right, exactly.

00:31:48 ◼   ► It's funny, quick aside,

00:31:50 ◼   ► I was on the plane on the way to San Francisco,

00:31:53 ◼   ► and I hadn't had my laptop connected to the internet

00:31:56 ◼   ► in I don't know, a few hours or something like that.

00:31:58 ◼   ► and on the plane where I'm on this god-awful terrible connection, which is to be expected

00:32:02 ◼   ► because I'm in a tube 30,000 feet in the sky, I noticed or I was trying to carry on a conversation

00:32:09 ◼   ► with Aaron via iMessage, but it was completely unintelligible because what ended up happening

00:32:14 ◼   ► is I would type something, send it, and then messages from hours ago would come in below

00:32:19 ◼   ► what I had just typed. And so I could not follow the conversation because I was reliving

00:32:24 ◼   ► the conversation from hours before. And it was at the, in the heat of the moment, it

00:32:27 ◼   ► was extremely frustrating. And thankfully, I understand enough about the mechanisms behind

00:32:31 ◼   ► it to have realized, well, you know, I'll just have to wait this out. But I could see

00:32:36 ◼   ► out to a regular user that would be unbelievably infuriating.

00:32:39 ◼   ► >> Yeah, the local on-device, there's lots of low-hanging fruit they can do local on-device.

00:32:43 ◼   ► And I think that they're doing this stuff--what they're doing, all these things they're doing,

00:32:47 ◼   ► despite characterizing it as like the anti-Google, they're doing Google-like things. They're

00:32:50 ◼   ► doing them on your device, but it's very Google-like.

00:32:53 ◼   ► >> Oh, yeah.

00:32:54 ◼   ► >> You know, and these are--and the best things for Google, things that people like from Google.

00:32:57 ◼   ► So I think these sort of intelligent features,

00:33:01 ◼   ► if they work well, will help Apple catch up a little bit

00:33:06 ◼   ► to the good impression that Google makes in people's mind

00:33:09 ◼   ► when it does smart things of like presenting them

00:33:12 ◼   ► with information just-- I mean, the watch helps that.

00:33:14 ◼   ► Presenting them with information just in time

00:33:16 ◼   ► that is relevant to them with context,

00:33:18 ◼   ► like even just the simple stuff of remind me about this later.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Really easy to do, but once someone gets used to it,

00:33:25 ◼   ► any device that doesn't have that very simple context awareness will seem dumber.

00:33:29 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that I noticed that Apple seems to be doing a lot with is

00:33:34 ◼   ► natural language processing. And I can't think of an example right off the top of my head

00:33:39 ◼   ► that was from the keynote, but something like Fantastical is famous for. So, you know, "Dinner

00:33:44 ◼   ► tomorrow with Aaron at 5 p.m." And you type all that out. You type the words, "Dinner

00:33:49 ◼   ► tomorrow with Aaron at 5 p.m." And it will parse out the relevant pieces and file them

00:33:54 ◼   ► calendar appointment as expected. Well, this wasn't specifically about calendaring in the

00:33:58 ◼   ► keynote, but they were doing similar style of natural language searches in like Spotlight,

00:34:03 ◼   ► for example, which were really impressive. I think they did an example with photos, if

00:34:07 ◼   ► I'm not mistaken.

00:34:08 ◼   ► >> It even worked in Finder on the Mac. I mean, like that engine was--it was on the

00:34:12 ◼   ► Mac, it was in Finder, it was in iOS and Spotlight and in Siri.

00:34:16 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:34:17 ◼   ► >> It's--like that was really all over the place and it looked pretty impressive. The

00:34:21 ◼   ► The challenge I think for, there's gonna be two challenges.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Like you know, geeks like us,

00:34:26 ◼   ► we won't know what we can do there.

00:34:29 ◼   ► - We just wanna use the K prefix constants,

00:34:31 ◼   ► K, M, D, last modified, exactly.

00:34:34 ◼   ► Like that query syntax makes sense to geeks.

00:34:37 ◼   ► I remember loving Altavista because it worked

00:34:39 ◼   ► in such a sort of deterministic way.

00:34:43 ◼   ► You could do plus and minus words,

00:34:45 ◼   ► the pages would have those words in it,

00:34:46 ◼   ► it made absolute sense.

00:34:47 ◼   ► Then when Google came along it's like,

00:34:49 ◼   ► I can type words into the Google search box,

00:34:50 ◼   ► But some of these words might not even appear on the page.

00:34:53 ◼   ► Because if I type, like, how to cook an omelet,

00:34:55 ◼   ► the page might not even have the word how on it.

00:34:57 ◼   ► It's a different mode.

00:34:58 ◼   ► So if you're a programmer, you're like,

00:34:59 ◼   ► I just want a deterministic machine.

00:35:00 ◼   ► You just tell me the query language,

00:35:01 ◼   ► and I will construct the query.

00:35:03 ◼   ► But that is not how people query things.

00:35:04 ◼   ► And so, yeah, Spotlight has had all these features

00:35:07 ◼   ► for a long time.

00:35:08 ◼   ► Nobody uses them except for geeks.

00:35:09 ◼   ► And even geeks can't remember all the stupid K prefix

00:35:11 ◼   ► contents.

00:35:12 ◼   ► So this upgrade to Spotlight of having natural language

00:35:15 ◼   ► querying-- and the Fantastic L is a great example of, like,

00:35:18 ◼   ► I use Google's appointments partly

00:35:20 ◼   ► because they do a little bit of that natural language stuff.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Like I do like, you know, 1 p.m. haircut.

00:35:24 ◼   ► Even something as simple as that.

00:35:26 ◼   ► Trying to enter a 1 p.m. haircut in Apple's things

00:35:29 ◼   ► is way harder than typing 1 p.m.'s base haircut,

00:35:32 ◼   ► and it shouldn't be harder.

00:35:33 ◼   ► And so Apple is, again, playing catch up here,

00:35:35 ◼   ► but long overdue.

00:35:36 ◼   ► And the thing, I think there's still a lot of room to grow,

00:35:38 ◼   ► but when they say like, oh, you know,

00:35:41 ◼   ► dinner with Aaron at seven,

00:35:42 ◼   ► what if you knew two people named Aaron?

00:35:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah. - That's when things

00:35:44 ◼   ► fall down and like, it's like, oh,

00:35:46 ◼   ► well maybe it presents a picker

00:35:47 ◼   ► and shows me the two people in Aaron, I pick the one.

00:35:49 ◼   ► That's like the next level.

00:35:50 ◼   ► The next level is look, 99% of the time I mean that Aaron.

00:35:54 ◼   ► And when I say Aaron, just pick that one.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Put the picker up and if I don't do anything with it,

00:35:59 ◼   ► just default it to that.

00:36:01 ◼   ► It's like getting up to sort of human assistant level

00:36:03 ◼   ► where I don't need to clarify who it is.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Or even if you could like, if they were all on

00:36:08 ◼   ► Find My Friends and one of the people is not

00:36:11 ◼   ► within flying distance to be there at some point

00:36:13 ◼   ► and they can figure out because they live in a different state.

00:36:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:15 ◼   ► There is a long way to go to do intelligent assistant type

00:36:18 ◼   ► So it's good seeing Apple getting a start in this area.

00:36:22 ◼   ► - Well, and a lot of this stuff is hard.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Like, if you think about an actual assistant,

00:36:25 ◼   ► which I don't think any of us have ever actually had, right?

00:36:27 ◼   ► - Nope.

00:36:28 ◼   ► - Okay, but-- - Hops, right?

00:36:30 ◼   ► No?

00:36:30 ◼   ► Not a big help?

00:36:31 ◼   ► - He's of limited usefulness.

00:36:32 ◼   ► He's mostly moral support.

00:36:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:36:34 ◼   ► But, you know, he, so,

00:36:37 ◼   ► actual assistants even have problems with these things.

00:36:41 ◼   ► Like, human beings have problems with a lot of these things.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Like, if you say something that is ambiguous

00:36:45 ◼   ► or can be easily misunderstood

00:36:48 ◼   ► mean something else, then this is a problem that on some levels can't be solved or has

00:36:55 ◼   ► like a ceiling on how well it can be solved.

00:36:57 ◼   ► Well, I mean, that's not, they need to clarify.

00:36:58 ◼   ► The system, a good assistant would clarify and so will a computer, but the computer can

00:37:01 ◼   ► be maddening because it clarifies every time.

00:37:03 ◼   ► That's like, oh, Jesus, yes, it's still that errand.

00:37:06 ◼   ► Almost always going to be that, unless another errand is in play, like that has an appointment

00:37:10 ◼   ► with them, I've received an email from them recently, things that a human assistant would

00:37:14 ◼   ► know whether they have, the human assistant would not repeatedly clarify which errand

00:37:17 ◼   ► you're talking about.

00:37:18 ◼   ► Because there's two in your address book.

00:37:20 ◼   ► Like, just because they're in my address book,

00:37:21 ◼   ► they don't have equal value.

00:37:23 ◼   ► They don't have equal relevance to me.

00:37:24 ◼   ► And that type of information about who is-- again,

00:37:26 ◼   ► this requires global awareness.

00:37:28 ◼   ► Maybe that person, other Aaron, is in your address book

00:37:31 ◼   ► because you sent them an email three years ago.

00:37:33 ◼   ► The relevance of that person, that entry,

00:37:35 ◼   ► you don't want to delete it because you might want

00:37:36 ◼   ► to email them again like they're your real estate agent

00:37:38 ◼   ► or something.

00:37:38 ◼   ► You want to put it--

00:37:40 ◼   ► yeah, we've got a long way to go in this area.

00:37:42 ◼   ► But yeah, it's good to see Apple getting started.

00:37:44 ◼   ► - And that's the kind of area that Google is usually

00:37:48 ◼   ► much better at than Apple.

00:37:49 ◼   ► And that's why I worry a little bit about,

00:37:51 ◼   ► I'm curious to see how this ends up working with Apple,

00:37:54 ◼   ► if they show signs of being able to do this kind of thing

00:37:57 ◼   ► and improving in this area.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Because historically, again, I think they've lagged

00:38:01 ◼   ► very far behind Google historically

00:38:02 ◼   ► in that kind of big data problem.

00:38:05 ◼   ► But we will see.

00:38:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:08 ◼   ► Do we want to talk about the Apple Pay changes?

00:38:11 ◼   ► And more specifically, actually, I wanted to bring up,

00:38:14 ◼   ► we saw two women on stage today.

00:38:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:38:17 ◼   ► - Which was awesome and surprising.

00:38:19 ◼   ► And it was so surprising that I actually wanted to call out

00:38:22 ◼   ► a text message I got from a coworker

00:38:24 ◼   ► as I was sitting in the keynote.

00:38:26 ◼   ► I believe this, she was referring to,

00:38:28 ◼   ► that my coworker was referring to the second woman

00:38:31 ◼   ► who came on stage, and I apologize

00:38:32 ◼   ► because I don't remember their names,

00:38:34 ◼   ► but I got this text message from my friend at work, Chris.

00:38:39 ◼   ► She said, "What?

00:38:40 ◼   ► a woman presenting something at Apple,

00:38:42 ◼   ► then that was phenomenal to her.

00:38:45 ◼   ► And this is someone who is like really enthusiastic

00:38:48 ◼   ► about the watch, but generally speaking,

00:38:50 ◼   ► doesn't pay the kind of attention that we pay.

00:38:52 ◼   ► So this is like a quote unquote normal,

00:38:54 ◼   ► which is such a dismissive way of describing her.

00:38:56 ◼   ► And I don't mean it to be dismissive,

00:38:57 ◼   ► but someone who doesn't really follow this like we do

00:39:00 ◼   ► was stunned that there were,

00:39:02 ◼   ► was one woman brought on stage, let alone two.

00:39:04 ◼   ► And so I'm really pleased that Apple's finally listening

00:39:09 ◼   ► and making these strides.

00:39:10 ◼   ► And a friend of the show, Christina Warren,

00:39:12 ◼   ► who was on the show, what, two weeks ago,

00:39:14 ◼   ► she actually interviewed Tim Cook-- was it Sunday night,

00:39:17 ◼   ► I believe?

00:39:18 ◼   ► Something like that.

00:39:19 ◼   ► For Mashable.

00:39:20 ◼   ► And she had pressed him on this a little bit.

00:39:22 ◼   ► And he said, basically, watch the space.

00:39:24 ◼   ► And sure enough, we watched the space,

00:39:26 ◼   ► and there were two women presenters.

00:39:27 ◼   ► And I thought they were great.

00:39:28 ◼   ► Yeah, that was teased in that interview.

00:39:30 ◼   ► And it's good to see it.

00:39:33 ◼   ► Tim Cook was very forthcoming with the whole diversity report

00:39:35 ◼   ► and everything, that they have not done well in here,

00:39:37 ◼   ► and they're making changes to improve things.

00:39:39 ◼   ► Was it half women?

00:39:40 ◼   ► Was it majority women?

00:39:41 ◼   ► No, but it was more than zero.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Like, you know, they're making progress.

00:39:44 ◼   ► - It was two and seven.

00:39:45 ◼   ► - Right, and the other thing to keep in mind about WWDC

00:39:49 ◼   ► is like, well, the glory things like the keynote

00:39:51 ◼   ► and like the State of the Union used to be just all men,

00:39:53 ◼   ► right, and now getting women there is super important.

00:39:55 ◼   ► But if you don't go to WWDC, you may not realize

00:39:58 ◼   ► how many technical sessions at WWDC are presented

00:40:03 ◼   ► either primarily by women, like they're the main speaker

00:40:05 ◼   ► for the whole thing or incorporate women.

00:40:07 ◼   ► There are women, that was the whole thing,

00:40:09 ◼   ► it was like there are women on Apple's team.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Apple's diversity is not great, but it's not terrible.

00:40:14 ◼   ► It was very commonplace to see women giving presentations

00:40:17 ◼   ► and any type of presentation at WOEDC, right?

00:40:20 ◼   ► But you never saw them in the keynote,

00:40:22 ◼   ► so that's what made it all the more glaring.

00:40:23 ◼   ► It's like, well, we've got a company full

00:40:25 ◼   ► of all these people, but really,

00:40:27 ◼   ► the only people who ever get to talk is Tim Cook

00:40:28 ◼   ► and a bunch of other similarly aged,

00:40:30 ◼   ► similarly appearing men.

00:40:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:40:32 ◼   ► And so yeah, that makes it, and that's the whole thing.

00:40:35 ◼   ► We didn't know the names of these people.

00:40:36 ◼   ► Steve Jobs was big in not telling you the names

00:40:38 ◼   ► of anybody who was in the company,

00:40:39 ◼   ► except for the big headline executives.

00:40:41 ◼   ► That's why everyone thought it would be Angela,

00:40:43 ◼   ► whose last name I can't pronounce.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Angela Ahrendts, like, oh, she'll definitely be up there,

00:40:46 ◼   ► because she's the woman who's on their

00:40:48 ◼   ► C-level executives page.

00:40:51 ◼   ► But there are tons of women at Apple,

00:40:52 ◼   ► and I don't think it was particularly hard to find them.

00:40:55 ◼   ► Who's the head of Apple Pay?

00:40:56 ◼   ► Apparently this woman, who we never knew before,

00:40:58 ◼   ► because who knows, half her present the Apple Pay part,

00:41:02 ◼   ► instead of having Phil Schiller do it or something, right?

00:41:04 ◼   ► It just makes perfect sense.

00:41:05 ◼   ► And I think they did great.

00:41:06 ◼   ► I think they both looked a little bit nervous.

00:41:08 ◼   ► As we know, the men who presented for the first time

00:41:10 ◼   ► also felt a little nervous.

00:41:11 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:41:12 ◼   ► I think that the second one up, she

00:41:14 ◼   ► had a really good joke about reading ESPN for the articles.

00:41:17 ◼   ► And she seemed very relaxed.

00:41:18 ◼   ► And the reaction to them in the room was good.

00:41:23 ◼   ► They did much better than a lot of men first time presenters.

00:41:26 ◼   ► And it's difficult for them to be in the spotlight about,

00:41:28 ◼   ► oh, are you just a woman presenter?

00:41:30 ◼   ► These are people in charge of these parts of the product.

00:41:33 ◼   ► They're not just plucked out of the,

00:41:34 ◼   ► oh, you're a woman, can you talk about this product?

00:41:36 ◼   ► They're in charge of this, this is their job.

00:41:38 ◼   ► So I thought it was exactly what it should have been.

00:41:42 ◼   ► The actual women behind important technologies

00:41:45 ◼   ► doing presentations on those technologies

00:41:47 ◼   ► that they created, that their team created.

00:41:49 ◼   ► So big thumbs up.

00:41:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, definitely.

00:41:51 ◼   ► So I brought up Apple Pay because it was

00:41:54 ◼   ► the woman who was in charge of Apple Pay that presented.

00:41:56 ◼   ► I didn't think there was too much there to unpack.

00:41:59 ◼   ► The couple of highlights for me were loyalty cards

00:42:01 ◼   ► being integrated into Passbook,

00:42:04 ◼   ► which is sort of not Passbook anymore,

00:42:05 ◼   ► we'll get there in a second.

00:42:07 ◼   ► That's really exciting to me because about a year ago

00:42:09 ◼   ► I tried to slim down my wallet from being as thick

00:42:11 ◼   ► as Jon's wallet, which I'm looking at next to him

00:42:13 ◼   ► and it's like four feet thick.

00:42:15 ◼   ► - It's all money.

00:42:16 ◼   ► - Oh, listen to this guy, listen to this guy.

00:42:19 ◼   ► Making it rain in here.

00:42:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, the singles, man.

00:42:21 ◼   ► - But no, the--

00:42:22 ◼   ► - It's like 15 singles in here.

00:42:23 ◼   ► - We'll have to do--

00:42:24 ◼   ► - We already stripped club, but it's cool.

00:42:26 ◼   ► - Oh God.

00:42:27 ◼   ► So we're gonna have to talk in the post show

00:42:28 ◼   ► about how wrong a tri-fold wallet is,

00:42:29 ◼   ► but we'll leave that for another time.

00:42:31 ◼   ► But anyway, so loyalty cards are now in Passbook,

00:42:34 ◼   ► which when I went through this like wallet cleansing

00:42:37 ◼   ► and purging event about a year ago,

00:42:39 ◼   ► what I found was I had a bunch of loyalty cards

00:42:42 ◼   ► that I use once a month, but I wanna have them

00:42:45 ◼   ► because they save me money or earn me perks

00:42:48 ◼   ► or whatever the case may be.

00:42:49 ◼   ► And so I wanted to have them with me,

00:42:51 ◼   ► and so what I ended up doing was putting those all

00:42:52 ◼   ► in my glove box, well, in my car.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Well, it would be awesome to have that in Passbook,

00:42:57 ◼   ► so I don't need to worry about that anymore,

00:43:00 ◼   ► and that's exactly what's coming with iOS 9.

00:43:02 ◼   ► I thought that was awesome.

00:43:04 ◼   ► Any thoughts about that before I move on, gentlemen?

00:43:06 ◼   ► The favorite thing I have about loyalty cards

00:43:08 ◼   ► is that once you get a loyalty card

00:43:12 ◼   ► and you put it into Apple Pay, it's

00:43:14 ◼   ► a signifier that store accepts Apple Pay,

00:43:16 ◼   ► because otherwise how would they let

00:43:18 ◼   ► you put your loyalty card in it?

00:43:19 ◼   ► So if you're going to slim down your wallet,

00:43:22 ◼   ► you should be pulling out credit cards that can go into Apple

00:43:26 ◼   ► Pay, pulling out loyalty cards that go into Apple Pay.

00:43:28 ◼   ► And all of that means another location

00:43:29 ◼   ► where you can use Apple Pay.

00:43:30 ◼   ► And having used Apple Pay now for a little while,

00:43:32 ◼   ► I wish every place could use Apple Pay.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Because it's much more convenient

00:43:35 ◼   ► than digging out your big, giant wallet

00:43:36 ◼   ► and pulling things out of it.

00:43:37 ◼   ► So it's gonna take a while for us to get there,

00:43:39 ◼   ► but I can imagine certain people,

00:43:42 ◼   ► if they pick where they shop very carefully,

00:43:43 ◼   ► which is exactly what Apple wants,

00:43:44 ◼   ► they're like, you should, you know, frequent Apple Pay stores

00:43:47 ◼   ► as a reward for them carrying Apple Pay.

00:43:50 ◼   ► I've been surprised so far at the success of Apple Pay.

00:43:52 ◼   ► One of the places I tried to use Apple Pay,

00:43:54 ◼   ► recently I didn't take it, was up on that slide,

00:43:56 ◼   ► Trader Joe's.

00:43:57 ◼   ► I went there, I'm like, do you take Apple Pay?

00:43:58 ◼   ► They're like, oh, sorry, we don't.

00:43:59 ◼   ► Well, they're going to this year.

00:44:00 ◼   ► So they're knocking them down one by one, all the stories

00:44:04 ◼   ► that we go to.

00:44:05 ◼   ► That's awesome.

00:44:06 ◼   ► The other thing I wanted to note about Apple Pay

00:44:08 ◼   ► was that they are now partnering with Square--

00:44:12 ◼   ► I'm assuming it's a partnership.

00:44:13 ◼   ► But anyway, they're partnering with Square

00:44:15 ◼   ► to make some sort of NFC-based Apple Pay reader

00:44:19 ◼   ► to work with Square, which I thought

00:44:21 ◼   ► was a phenomenally bright idea for both companies.

00:44:24 ◼   ► I mean, to me, it seemed like a win-win.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Because Square is becoming kind of omnipresent,

00:44:29 ◼   ► and even in places like Richmond,

00:44:31 ◼   ► you know, it's not a San Francisco thing.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I mean, even in Richmond, you see any sort

00:44:35 ◼   ► of independent vendor is using Square now.

00:44:38 ◼   ► And to have Apple Pay support for something

00:44:40 ◼   ► as ubiquitous as Square, I think is extremely bright.

00:44:43 ◼   ► And it seems that both Square and Apple

00:44:46 ◼   ► are pushing that pretty heavily, which to me is brilliant.

00:44:49 ◼   ► So I definitely applaud that.

00:44:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, that is a genius move.

00:44:52 ◼   ► Like, I'm kinda, honestly, I'm kinda surprised

00:44:55 ◼   ► it didn't happen when Apple Pay was launched last fall.

00:44:57 ◼   ► But I'm glad it's happening now

00:44:59 ◼   ► because that will make it a lot easier

00:45:01 ◼   ► for a lot more places to take it.

00:45:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're complementary systems

00:45:04 ◼   ► because remember Square has always been like,

00:45:05 ◼   ► oh, this is the little reader

00:45:07 ◼   ► that you put into your headphone jack on your thing

00:45:09 ◼   ► and if you have a kiosk, you can use an iPad kiosk

00:45:12 ◼   ► and then hook up a card swipe or thing to it.

00:45:16 ◼   ► They always have that sort of,

00:45:16 ◼   ► it's like the last mile problem of payment.

00:45:19 ◼   ► Like how do you get a thing from a customer

00:45:21 ◼   ► that lets you pay with?

00:45:21 ◼   ► And magnetic stripes are so barbaric

00:45:23 ◼   ► that there was always the barrier.

00:45:25 ◼   ► It's like, now that has been solved.

00:45:29 ◼   ► Hopefully your well-heeled customers all have iOS devices that have Apple Pay.

00:45:34 ◼   ► And it works best in cities filled with people who have iOS devices and stuff.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Square is filling a need that like, you know, it's not like Walmart is going to use Square.

00:45:44 ◼   ► The big credit card processors are geared towards the big customers, but if you're just

00:45:48 ◼   ► selling a bunch of stuff out of a kiosk or something, like a craft fair, having Square

00:45:52 ◼   ► is awesome because it makes you as fancy as the big vendors.

00:45:55 ◼   ► But it's something you can set up yourself in a weekend

00:45:57 ◼   ► and take payments from anybody with an iPhone.

00:46:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I definitely applaud it.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Marco, why don't you tell us about something else that's cool?

00:46:04 ◼   ► - Our second sponsor this week is Automattic.

00:46:07 ◼   ► Automattic is basically a little Bluetooth dongle

00:46:09 ◼   ► that you plug into your car's OBD2 diagnostic port.

00:46:13 ◼   ► This is the little port that's in the driver's side footwell

00:46:16 ◼   ► that outputs diagnostic data,

00:46:18 ◼   ► check engine codes and everything.

00:46:20 ◼   ► And what this does is this is a little dongle you plug in

00:46:22 ◼   ► then it has a smartphone app that runs an iOS or Android and then they have a whole

00:46:28 ◼   ► suite of apps and they have an API, they have IFTTT integration so that you can then do

00:46:33 ◼   ► things that are smart with that data and so they have a whole bunch of smarts in their

00:46:38 ◼   ► app to start with. So their app, you can do things like, you know, your car outputs real

00:46:43 ◼   ► time fuel economy data to that, metrics of like, you know, how fast you're going, whether

00:46:47 ◼   ► you're turning and stuff like that. So Automattic does intelligent things with that like, profiling

00:46:52 ◼   ► filing your efficiency and if you have a certain goal, a fuel efficiency set in mind, you can

00:46:58 ◼   ► set a goal and you can say if I'm driving too aggressively where it's not going to do

00:47:02 ◼   ► this, you can like beep at me and I'll get back in line. You can see graphs of how you've

00:47:06 ◼   ► done in the past, how you're meeting your goals, how you're managing your fuel costs

00:47:09 ◼   ► over time. You can also of course diagnose your check engine light because all that information

00:47:15 ◼   ► is available in that port and their app can show you any, so if there's like a small error

00:47:19 ◼   ► like your gas cap isn't sealed properly. Go, you know, go turn your gas cap and reset the

00:47:24 ◼   ► air and you're all done. There's a lot of common problems that you can diagnose and

00:47:27 ◼   ► turn off that would otherwise have shown just the check engine light. You would have had

00:47:30 ◼   ► to go to a mechanic and pay a bunch of money and nope, you don't have to do that anymore.

00:47:34 ◼   ► There's also a whole bunch of other stuff. So, you know, if you think about what's possible

00:47:38 ◼   ► when you combine the smarts of software and an app on a smartphone plus your car's data,

00:47:44 ◼   ► it can also do intelligent things like it can, it will call emergency services for you

00:47:48 ◼   ► for free if you have a serious crash.

00:47:51 ◼   ► And it can even tell them where you are.

00:47:54 ◼   ► If you can't respond, it can do the whole call for you.

00:47:58 ◼   ► That's a very impressive feature that hopefully

00:47:59 ◼   ► is very important to some people if they need it.

00:48:02 ◼   ► It can also do lighter stuff.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Like it can remember where you parked.

00:48:06 ◼   ► It knows when you turn the car off

00:48:07 ◼   ► and your phone's in your pocket.

00:48:08 ◼   ► Your phone knows where you are.

00:48:09 ◼   ► So again, it can combine the intelligence from these two

00:48:12 ◼   ► devices to really offer some great features.

00:48:14 ◼   ► So it's available at automatic.com/atp.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Now, what's great about this also,

00:48:21 ◼   ► as I said, there's this API, you can integrate,

00:48:23 ◼   ► like you can have it do things like integrate with Nest,

00:48:26 ◼   ► if you have a Nest learning thermostat,

00:48:28 ◼   ► you can have it automatically turn on your air conditioning

00:48:30 ◼   ► or your heating as you drive home from work,

00:48:33 ◼   ► so that your house is cool or hot when you get there,

00:48:35 ◼   ► stuff like that.

00:48:36 ◼   ► So all this, there's this online component,

00:48:38 ◼   ► there's a software component,

00:48:39 ◼   ► you would think there'd be like some kind of subscription fee

00:48:42 ◼   ► or something, turns out you just buy the thing up front

00:48:45 ◼   ► and that's it.

00:48:45 ◼   ► So normally it's 100 bucks up front,

00:48:47 ◼   ► and again, no subscription fees, no monthly fees.

00:48:50 ◼   ► You just buy the automatic device and that's it.

00:48:52 ◼   ► You buy it one time and you get all this stuff

00:48:54 ◼   ► in perpetuity.

00:48:55 ◼   ► So order it normally for 100 bucks.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Now we have a special deal through our podcast link

00:49:01 ◼   ► through automatic.com/ATP.

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00:49:13 ◼   ► $450 return policy.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Try it.

00:49:15 ◼   ► See if you like it.

00:49:16 ◼   ► Just $80 at automatic.com/atp.

00:49:20 ◼   ► Thank you very much to Automattic for sponsoring our

00:49:21 ◼   ► show once again.

00:49:23 ◼   ► All right.

00:49:24 ◼   ► So we should continue with iOS 9.

00:49:28 ◼   ► And today was Federico Vittucci's birthday.

00:49:32 ◼   ► It was Christmas.

00:49:33 ◼   ► It was New Year's.

00:49:34 ◼   ► It was everything to Federico.

00:49:37 ◼   ► And I actually exchanged a couple of text

00:49:38 ◼   ► messages with him.

00:49:39 ◼   ► And suffice to say, he is beside himself.

00:49:41 ◼   ► Did that cost him like a million dollars in roaming fees?

00:49:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:49:44 ◼   ► Well, thank goodness it was actually iMessages.

00:49:47 ◼   ► But yeah, anyway, there's a lot of attention paid to the iPad.

00:49:51 ◼   ► And a lot of features-- or maybe not that many,

00:49:54 ◼   ► but important features to make using the iPad as a workhorse,

00:50:00 ◼   ► a much easier and more productive device.

00:50:04 ◼   ► The quick and easy ones, they seem

00:50:06 ◼   ► to be doubling down on keyboard support, physical keyboard

00:50:09 ◼   ► support. So they have an alt tab switcher or command tab. Oh, now I'm gonna get the email for that. Oh, God. Yeah, now I want to crawl in a hole. I'm just gonna

00:50:17 ◼   ► crawl under Marco's bed real quick and cry. They have a command tab switcher. Yeah, that's not weird at all. They have a command tab switcher. I think they have more

00:50:26 ◼   ► keyboard shortcuts. They kind of flashed a few things on screen and I didn't get a

00:50:29 ◼   ► chance to catch them all. But what was really interesting is, and I want to play

00:50:33 ◼   ► with it because it did not look terribly intuitive to me, but I suspect once I use

00:50:37 ◼   ► it won't be so bad. Is the keyboard on iPad apparently is now a trackpad when

00:50:41 ◼   ► you use more than one finger at a time? Did you guys kind of catch, I was trying

00:50:45 ◼   ► to watch how that works and it was flying by way too quick for me to really

00:50:49 ◼   ► understand. This is a feature of one of my favorite iOS apps that I really hope

00:50:52 ◼   ► that Apple would bring everywhere, but I use it on my iPhone. Twitterific added a

00:50:57 ◼   ► feature in a recent version where if you swipe, not on the keyboard, but if you

00:51:02 ◼   ► swipe on the text area where you're composing the tweet, it will move the

00:51:05 ◼   ► insertion point. Oh really? Yes. Oh I didn't know that. You should try it and once you get used to that you hate every other text field.

00:51:10 ◼   ► This is the thing that has always annoyed me, it always annoys me about iOS

00:51:14 ◼   ► overall the entire system. I understand why they do but any sort of gesture that requires for you to hold down for a certain period

00:51:21 ◼   ► of time is

00:51:23 ◼   ► sort of just

00:51:25 ◼   ► against my computer religion. Like

00:51:27 ◼   ► all of the interface elements that I was brought up with

00:51:32 ◼   ► React as fast as the computer can react to whatever it is you're doing right so you click on a window close widget the window closes

00:51:39 ◼   ► Maybe there's an animation or whatever

00:51:41 ◼   ► But the window closes right you double click as fast as you can double click it registers double click it happens

00:51:46 ◼   ► But iOS because of the limited

00:51:48 ◼   ► Interface had to have a bunch of things where you have to tap and hold and there's nothing you can do to make that

00:51:52 ◼   ► Hold faster you don't hold for the minimum amount of time you don't get tap and hold and so many things on iOS require that

00:51:58 ◼   ► Selecting text tap hold and that hold I mean

00:52:01 ◼   ► Maybe it doesn't bother most people, but I feel like I'm waiting for

00:52:05 ◼   ► The computer is waiting for me. I'm waiting for the computer. We're just waiting together in a pointless way, right?

00:52:10 ◼   ► Moving the insertion point if I'm really frustrating if I want to put the insertion point at the beginning of the line

00:52:16 ◼   ► I frequently tap. Oh, I'm too close to the edge of the digitizer didn't get it tap

00:52:20 ◼   ► Oh, it's not still not going tap if I want to move left one character

00:52:23 ◼   ► It requires a super precise tap on my giant meaty finger to move it left one character

00:52:28 ◼   ► Whereas in Twitterrific, swipe left, the insertion point moves to left.

00:52:32 ◼   ► Swipe left, left, left, left three characters as fast as I can swipe.

00:52:35 ◼   ► Right, right, right, left, left, left, right.

00:52:37 ◼   ► And so what they were showing was a different way to do the same thing.

00:52:40 ◼   ► To say, look how fast I can move the cursor around.

00:52:42 ◼   ► There's no way you could accurately move the cursor around as fast as they were demoing.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And yeah, they're basically using the surface like a track pair, which is different than swiping,

00:52:49 ◼   ► but it's like, it's like they, there's no mouse on iOS, they didn't talk about this,

00:52:54 ◼   ► about this, but this is really darn close to controlling a cursor with a trackpad on

00:52:59 ◼   ► an iOS device. Your finger is not the pointer. Your finger is moving around on this surface

00:53:04 ◼   ► and another thing, let's call it the pointer, is moving around over there. And I love this

00:53:09 ◼   ► feature in principle. I haven't tried it yet to see if the implementation is intuitive,

00:53:14 ◼   ► but I love the limited version of this in Twitterrific and lots of other apps that have

00:53:18 ◼   ► implemented this. I think Android has lots of versions of this with their various keyboards

00:53:22 ◼   ► and interfaces.

00:53:23 ◼   ► I hate tap and hold.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Anything that lets me move the insertion point around,

00:53:27 ◼   ► I'm really glad they're doing this.

00:53:29 ◼   ► I really hope they also do it on iPhone.

00:53:31 ◼   ► It wasn't clear to me which one of these features stay on iPad

00:53:33 ◼   ► and which ones come to all iOS devices.

00:53:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was iPad only.

00:53:37 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I thought.

00:53:38 ◼   ► For this release.

00:53:38 ◼   ► Maybe next year.

00:53:39 ◼   ► Some things were.

00:53:40 ◼   ► And some things-- like, I think you're right about the trackpad.

00:53:43 ◼   ► But I think some other aspects of the new keyboard

00:53:45 ◼   ► were either shown or mentioned to be available in both.

00:53:48 ◼   ► Anyway, we'll install the babies and we'll find out.

00:53:51 ◼   ► But I think there is no reason that a lot of these features should be limited to iPad.

00:53:55 ◼   ► Because again, the place where I use the little swipey feature the most is on an iPhone app.

00:53:59 ◼   ► With the trackpad area, it might be like, well, you need to have a big area to move

00:54:02 ◼   ► around or they don't want you to put two fingers down.

00:54:05 ◼   ► It wasn't one of the gestures, like a two finger thing.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Like how do I find a place for two fingers on my iPhone thing?

00:54:10 ◼   ► But I'm like, please, Apple, we need, if anything, you need even more sort of an easy way to

00:54:15 ◼   ► move the cursor around and do text selections in a tiny little iPhone screen.

00:54:19 ◼   ► It's so much harder to get your fingers in there and just get a six plus. Oh god still too small. Yeah

00:54:24 ◼   ► Mike was wrong

00:54:26 ◼   ► Then the other big feature that they talked about for the iPad is multi like real honest-to-goodness

00:54:32 ◼   ► Multitasking in the sense of multiple things on the screen. Don't call windows

00:54:36 ◼   ► yeah, they're not windows right but but multiple apps on the screen at the same time and

00:54:41 ◼   ► Remind me the terminology because I was paying close attention and it in because I haven't played with this yet

00:54:47 ◼   ► it hasn't really sank in.

00:54:48 ◼   ► So there's some mechanism where you can like swipe in an app

00:54:53 ◼   ► temporarily, but you can't interact with it,

00:54:55 ◼   ► is that correct?

00:54:56 ◼   ► - No, so there's the slide in or slide over,

00:54:58 ◼   ► whatever it's called, where it's almost like

00:55:00 ◼   ► notification center where it just kinda like literally

00:55:04 ◼   ► like you can swipe from the right and you can slide in

00:55:07 ◼   ► an iPhone width app over top of the running iPad app

00:55:12 ◼   ► that's running full screen.

00:55:13 ◼   ► or you can actually shrink the current running app

00:55:18 ◼   ► and actually have them both side by side at the same time.

00:55:21 ◼   ► So if you only do the slide over thing,

00:55:24 ◼   ► the slide over thing,

00:55:25 ◼   ► first of all that works on more iPads.

00:55:27 ◼   ► That works on your RetinaPad Mini.

00:55:30 ◼   ► - Hi Steven.

00:55:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:55:32 ◼   ► - And that works on most iPads above the A5 CPU.

00:55:37 ◼   ► So anything with a Retina screen

00:55:40 ◼   ► that isn't an iPad 3 basically.

00:55:42 ◼   ► and then if you have the iPad Air 2,

00:55:46 ◼   ► only the most recent full-sized iPad,

00:55:48 ◼   ► then that one is the only one that can do

00:55:51 ◼   ► actually running two apps indefinitely.

00:55:54 ◼   ► 'Cause the other mode where you just slide one in

00:55:56 ◼   ► temporarily, then the background app becomes unavailable

00:56:00 ◼   ► until you slide that app out of the way again.

00:56:02 ◼   ► So I think that's mostly, I mean,

00:56:05 ◼   ► it might be a power user price segmentation issue partly,

00:56:09 ◼   ► but I think it's probably also just RAM concerns

00:56:12 ◼   ► of keeping two apps active.

00:56:14 ◼   ► Is it RAM, though?

00:56:15 ◼   ► I was going to guess that it was CPU.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Because at first I was thinking RAM,

00:56:18 ◼   ► but then I was thinking, it can't be RAM,

00:56:20 ◼   ► because all those same apps are expected to run on machines

00:56:24 ◼   ► with one gig of RAM.

00:56:25 ◼   ► That's true.

00:56:25 ◼   ► Right?

00:56:26 ◼   ► And so if it's CPU, I could think of, well--

00:56:30 ◼   ► because it's not limited, I don't think.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Is it limited?

00:56:33 ◼   ► You have to do special support for the splitter?

00:56:35 ◼   ► Or is there a limit on what kind of apps

00:56:38 ◼   ► you can put in a split pane?

00:56:40 ◼   ► I don't think there is.

00:56:41 ◼   ► Either way, what I was thinking of is,

00:56:43 ◼   ► if say you wanted to split between two games,

00:56:45 ◼   ► and both games use every ounce of computing and GPU power,

00:56:50 ◼   ► the iPad Air 2 may be the only thing

00:56:52 ◼   ► that can run two apps simultaneously

00:56:54 ◼   ► with acceptable performance if one or both of those apps

00:56:57 ◼   ► are very demanding.

00:56:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, and this might be, if it is CPU relevant,

00:57:03 ◼   ► this might be why the iPad Air 2 shipped with this third core

00:57:07 ◼   ► that they really underplayed at the launch.

00:57:09 ◼   ► They didn't even mention it, I don't think.

00:57:11 ◼   ► And the iPad Air 2 has had ridiculous performance

00:57:15 ◼   ► compared to other iOS devices.

00:57:16 ◼   ► It's just so much faster.

00:57:17 ◼   ► And here's the thing.

00:57:18 ◼   ► You're like, well, so what?

00:57:20 ◼   ► They sell Macs all the time with wimpy CPUs.

00:57:21 ◼   ► And it's like, well, if it's slow, it's slow.

00:57:23 ◼   ► But there's the expectation in an iOS device

00:57:26 ◼   ► that if an app works, it should always work.

00:57:30 ◼   ► And if it works, and then you split the screen,

00:57:33 ◼   ► and all of a sudden it gets super slow and crappy,

00:57:35 ◼   ► you're like, oh, well, this stinks.

00:57:38 ◼   ► On the Mac, you're used to it.

00:57:40 ◼   ► The expectation on the Mac is if you're

00:57:41 ◼   ► doing a bunch of other crap, one of your apps

00:57:43 ◼   ► could get worse because you're doing a bunch of other crap.

00:57:44 ◼   ► But on iOS, it's like, well, it either runs or it doesn't run.

00:57:47 ◼   ► It's more like a game console.

00:57:48 ◼   ► It either works or it doesn't work.

00:57:50 ◼   ► And to have an app that seems to work,

00:57:52 ◼   ► but then you bring in a different application

00:57:54 ◼   ► and a splitter pane and run them both at the same time,

00:57:56 ◼   ► and then it doesn't work as well,

00:57:57 ◼   ► like the frame rate suffers or the sound-- sound's probably

00:58:00 ◼   ► not going to stutter.

00:58:01 ◼   ► But whatever the working versus nonworking state is,

00:58:04 ◼   ► the thing that's trying to keep the expectation is, look,

00:58:07 ◼   ► if your app runs, it will continue to run,

00:58:09 ◼   ► even if there's another one running right next to it.

00:58:12 ◼   ► It's like an appliance.

00:58:13 ◼   ► They just don't want it to--

00:58:15 ◼   ► and you're right, it could just be market segmentation,

00:58:16 ◼   ► and they want to sell more iPad Air 2s, whatever.

00:58:18 ◼   ► I'm looking for a technical reason, basically.

00:58:20 ◼   ► - And honestly, it's probably some of both.

00:58:23 ◼   ► They do want to sell more iPad Air 2s.

00:58:25 ◼   ► They do want to just sell more new iPads, period.

00:58:27 ◼   ► Because one of the biggest problems they have

00:58:29 ◼   ► for iPad sales is that old iPads continue

00:58:31 ◼   ► to be pretty useful.

00:58:33 ◼   ► - People could be using them.

00:58:33 ◼   ► They don't break enough.

00:58:34 ◼   ► - Right, exactly.

00:58:36 ◼   ► A lot of people still use like iPad 3s, iPad 2s,

00:58:39 ◼   ► and they're fine.

00:58:41 ◼   ► So they might get a little slower over time,

00:58:44 ◼   ► but there aren't a lot of compelling reasons

00:58:46 ◼   ► pushing people to upgrade their iPads.

00:58:48 ◼   ► And this, if you've been frustrated by the limitations

00:58:53 ◼   ► of trying to get quote, work done on the iPad,

00:58:57 ◼   ► a lot of people are gonna look at this and say,

00:58:58 ◼   ► "Oh, well, if I get the iPad Air 2

00:59:00 ◼   ► "or whatever new iPads come out this fall presumably,

00:59:03 ◼   ► "then I'll be able to work better."

00:59:05 ◼   ► So that will drive sales, no question.

00:59:07 ◼   ► - The one thing they didn't show

00:59:08 ◼   ► that I really thought they were gonna show,

00:59:09 ◼   ► at least maybe they did and I blacked out

00:59:11 ◼   ► during this period, you guys can tell me,

00:59:13 ◼   ► they had the thing side by side and they were like,

00:59:14 ◼   ► "Look, and if you have a link in a Notes app

00:59:16 ◼   ► "and Safari's on the left, I can tap the link

00:59:18 ◼   ► "and it loads right in Safari."

00:59:19 ◼   ► Like, you know, you didn't have to switch apps,

00:59:21 ◼   ► you have everything in context.

00:59:22 ◼   ► I really wanted them to grab something

00:59:24 ◼   ► and drag it from one of those panes into the other.

00:59:27 ◼   ► I really wanted that to happen.

00:59:28 ◼   ► They didn't do it, right?

00:59:29 ◼   ► - Next year.

00:59:30 ◼   ► - Thought they did, didn't they,

00:59:31 ◼   ► weren't they in the Notes app

00:59:32 ◼   ► and they took like a link from Safari into--

00:59:34 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:59:35 ◼   ► Or was that on the Mac?

00:59:36 ◼   ► See, that's what I'm not sure.

00:59:37 ◼   ► I'm not confident that it was on an iPad.

00:59:39 ◼   ► You're talking about Federico Viticci, who is a big fan of using the iPad as his main

00:59:45 ◼   ► computer.

00:59:46 ◼   ► And I've always been talking about the iPad Pro.

00:59:48 ◼   ► The iPad is a better computing device for regular people because you can throw it in

00:59:51 ◼   ► front of somebody and they can do useful work in it much easier than if you threw a Mac

00:59:54 ◼   ► or a PC in front of them.

00:59:55 ◼   ► So this is the future of computing.

00:59:57 ◼   ► But if it's going to be the future of computing, it needs more capabilities.

01:00:00 ◼   ► And one of those capabilities is like, what if I'm just assembling a bunch of stuff?

01:00:04 ◼   ► I'm trying to make a document out of a bunch of bits and pieces. It's just a pain in the

01:00:07 ◼   ► butt if you have to switch the whole, you know, your entire contents of your skin is

01:00:10 ◼   ► replaced and something else is replaced. And like two things they announced today. One,

01:00:13 ◼   ► the iCloud Drive app and two side by side things starts to give you a workflow that

01:00:18 ◼   ► looks a little bit more like, hey, I can pull from here, pull from there, assemble a big

01:00:21 ◼   ► document made of media and a bunch of other places, open this up in an editor application,

01:00:26 ◼   ► tweak it, drag the resulting version into this. Like an iPad Pro now has an even more

01:00:31 ◼   ► reason to exist because, I mean, maybe you don't get three splitter panes, but the two

01:00:35 ◼   ► splitters that you get can be bigger and better, and it can have a bigger CPU to have more

01:00:39 ◼   ► stuff going on. It's not like they're reinventing the Mac on the iPad, they're trying to give

01:00:43 ◼   ► you the capabilities that you have on the Mac without the complexity, without as much

01:00:48 ◼   ► as the complexity.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Well, and also, you know, with the better hardware keyboard support, you can do all

01:00:53 ◼   ► these things and do them more efficiently with a hardware keyboard, which is also appealing.

01:00:59 ◼   ► It was a bummer to me, though, as a pretty big fan of the iPad Mini. It was a bummer

01:01:02 ◼   ► that as it exists today, there is no iPad Mini that supports the--I think they're calling

01:01:08 ◼   ► it app pinning, which is like the split screen--with split screen two apps running simultaneously

01:01:13 ◼   ► set up. And I would hope and assume that this fall, when the iPad Mini--what are we up to,

01:01:18 ◼   ► four, something like that?

01:01:19 ◼   ► >> Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:20 ◼   ► >> When the next iPad Mini comes out, that maybe it would be supported. But I also wonder

01:01:24 ◼   ► if maybe they'll say, well, this screen is too physically small to support two windows

01:01:30 ◼   ► at once. So no, this is only a full-size iPad thing. And even though I only use my iPad

01:01:34 ◼   ► for goofing off 99% of the time, I still love my iPad Mini. And I wasn't planning to go

01:01:40 ◼   ► back earlier in the conversation, I wasn't sitting here now planning on upgrading to

01:01:44 ◼   ► the next one until I found a reason to do so. And today, I might have found the reason

01:01:48 ◼   ► to do so. So I'm a perfect example of someone who might have just been pushed into upgrading,

01:01:53 ◼   ► who may not have otherwise.

01:01:55 ◼   ► And the picture-in-picture thing, I think, is another thing where it doesn't require

01:01:58 ◼   ► -- because you would assume video playback, you know, there's dedicated hardware for that

01:02:01 ◼   ► and everything.

01:02:02 ◼   ► It could be done even by wimpy devices.

01:02:04 ◼   ► Even that is like, well, what if, you know, I'm using the MLB app, but I want to also

01:02:08 ◼   ► be like reading email or scrolling through Twitter?

01:02:11 ◼   ► Picture-in-picture.

01:02:12 ◼   ► Throw a little sports window up in the corner and now you can do two things.

01:02:15 ◼   ► That really changes the game for whole classes of applications where you're like -- people

01:02:20 ◼   ► will go away from the iPad visit. They think of it as a single tasking device, even if

01:02:23 ◼   ► multiple things are going on. Just the ability to have a little video thing running in the

01:02:28 ◼   ► corner, even if it's just like a YouTube video or whatever, just to have that off in the

01:02:31 ◼   ► corner and to be able to do other things really changes the game on the iPad. Now it's not

01:02:36 ◼   ► your Mac, but it's like going from zero to one. It's a huge difference, right?

01:02:41 ◼   ► I couldn't agree more, because on the plane on the way here, I was trying to watch an

01:02:46 ◼   ► episode of Top Gear and then I kept getting text messages from like either

01:02:50 ◼   ► you guys or Aaron or something like that and in that situation because I'm in a

01:02:55 ◼   ► plane I can only have one device on the internet at a time because that's the

01:02:59 ◼   ► way plane Wi-Fi works. No it's not. Go ahead. Well that okay. You gotta buy the all-day pass from

01:03:04 ◼   ► from GoGo before you're on the plane and then you can sign up all your devices.

01:03:07 ◼   ► What? Yeah. Mind blown. Well anyway I had thought that I could only have one

01:03:12 ◼   ► device online at a time. And so what ended up happening was because I

01:03:16 ◼   ► couldn't effectively watch this video without being interrupted constantly, I

01:03:20 ◼   ► said, "You know what? Screw it. I'll take the iPad with the nicer keyboard that's

01:03:23 ◼   ► easier to type on. I'll take that off the internet and I'll put my phone on the

01:03:27 ◼   ► internet." And I had them both sitting on my tray table like a lunatic because

01:03:30 ◼   ► that was the most efficient way for me to do everything I wanted at once, which

01:03:34 ◼   ► was watch this episode of Top Gear while also talking to you guys or Aaron or

01:03:37 ◼   ► whomever. And if I had picture-in-picture, that would have made this so

01:03:41 ◼   ► much better and easier to deal with.

01:03:43 ◼   ► - Or if you had a Mac, if you had a Mac,

01:03:44 ◼   ► you just have the movie window in the background

01:03:47 ◼   ► and your message window, like, you know,

01:03:49 ◼   ► and you could arrange them however you wanted.

01:03:50 ◼   ► Picture in picture is a little mini version of that.

01:03:52 ◼   ► - Well, what's interesting about this too is like,

01:03:54 ◼   ► this is major features that are iPad only,

01:03:57 ◼   ► possibly big iPad only, that the iPhones can't do

01:04:01 ◼   ► and probably won't get if I had to take a guess.

01:04:03 ◼   ► And so that, I think, like, they really have to do something

01:04:08 ◼   ► to try to give more people a reason to use iPads

01:04:11 ◼   ► and use them more often over just,

01:04:14 ◼   ► oh, I'll just get a big phone.

01:04:15 ◼   ► And from Apple's point of view,

01:04:17 ◼   ► from our point of view, we might just say,

01:04:19 ◼   ► well, just make the phones better and we'll deal with it.

01:04:20 ◼   ► But a lot of people, they're going to now be pushed

01:04:24 ◼   ► into either using their existing iPads more

01:04:28 ◼   ► or getting new iPads.

01:04:29 ◼   ► And from Apple's point of view,

01:04:31 ◼   ► that makes sense as a goal, as something they need to do.

01:04:35 ◼   ► So we'll see what happens.

01:04:36 ◼   ► I think what they're doing on the iPad is smart.

01:04:39 ◼   ► I don't know if it will turn around the kind of like plateau of usefulness. The

01:04:44 ◼   ► iPad seems to have hit for many people. I don't know, but I guess I will tell. I

01:04:50 ◼   ► think you really have to. I think Apple's waiting of us, so you really

01:04:52 ◼   ► have to age out the old ones like they're just like come on guys get rid

01:04:55 ◼   ► of stop using those things. Just they want the old devices to go away and

01:05:00 ◼   ► like I said, there's no differentiator like they don't. They don't know what

01:05:04 ◼   ► the product upgrade cycle is in the iPad because the product is too young and now

01:05:07 ◼   ► they're trying to hasten the demise of these older devices

01:05:10 ◼   ► because they're holding back the progress of the platform,

01:05:13 ◼   ► as Apple used to so often talk about at WWDC.

01:05:16 ◼   ► And this is saying, all right, we are moving forward.

01:05:20 ◼   ► You can't have these nice things.

01:05:22 ◼   ► We really hope these nice things are compelling to customers

01:05:24 ◼   ► because that's the only way we'll move things forward.

01:05:27 ◼   ► Although in another very interesting major way,

01:05:30 ◼   ► the new version of iOS doesn't age out any old devices.

01:05:34 ◼   ► I know.

01:05:35 ◼   ► And they're still selling A5 devices.

01:05:37 ◼   ► I know.

01:05:37 ◼   ► This fifth-gen iPod Touch is up there on the supported thing.

01:05:39 ◼   ► It's like, are you kidding me?

01:05:41 ◼   ► That's what I think about-- that's why--

01:05:43 ◼   ► I mean, you mentioned, why can't they bring split screen?

01:05:46 ◼   ► If you're making a thing, and you're like,

01:05:48 ◼   ► I want this game to work on all the things.

01:05:50 ◼   ► I'm going to make this game work on an A5.

01:05:52 ◼   ► It's probably so hard for you to get that game to work on an A5

01:05:54 ◼   ► that they said, oh, by the way, you get half of an A5,

01:05:56 ◼   ► because they get split screen.

01:05:57 ◼   ► You're like, oh, well, forget it.

01:05:59 ◼   ► I can't support that at all.

01:06:00 ◼   ► They should just get rid of the A5-class devices.

01:06:03 ◼   ► But yeah, it's better to use the,

01:06:06 ◼   ► I guess they're trying to use the carrot here

01:06:07 ◼   ► and say you don't get these fancy features on the iPad

01:06:10 ◼   ► at the very least.

01:06:11 ◼   ► On the phone stuff, they seem to have been limiting

01:06:13 ◼   ► themselves to features that can live on A5 class devices,

01:06:17 ◼   ► albeit in sort of abbreviated form.

01:06:20 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:06:21 ◼   ► - Well, but to go back just a quick step,

01:06:23 ◼   ► they did mention in one of the two presentations

01:06:26 ◼   ► we've seen today that coming soon,

01:06:28 ◼   ► you can target 64-bit devices only,

01:06:30 ◼   ► which is well after the A5, right?

01:06:31 ◼   ► - That's A7 and up.

01:06:32 ◼   ► - Right, so you could--

01:06:34 ◼   ► - Or it's an A6, I forget.

01:06:35 ◼   ► - I don't know, it's something that's not an A5.

01:06:38 ◼   ► - I think it's A7.

01:06:39 ◼   ► - But regardless, so you can choose to target an app

01:06:42 ◼   ► only at 64-bit devices, which is sort of kind of a way

01:06:46 ◼   ► to get around this, oh my god, I really don't wanna

01:06:48 ◼   ► support the A5 problem.

01:06:50 ◼   ► But either way, it was, definitely some great advances

01:06:53 ◼   ► for the iPad, I kinda wish we had a live camera

01:06:56 ◼   ► on Federico while all this was happening.

01:06:57 ◼   ► It was like having a live camera on you

01:06:59 ◼   ► when Swift was announced last year.

01:07:01 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:07:02 ◼   ► would have been amazing, but no, they're both,

01:07:06 ◼   ► everything sounds really good,

01:07:07 ◼   ► I'm really looking forward to trying.

01:07:08 ◼   ► - Unlike Swift, though, we knew that the splitting

01:07:10 ◼   ► the screen stuff existed in iOS 8,

01:07:12 ◼   ► like we talked about in the last show,

01:07:13 ◼   ► so Federico couldn't have been totally shocked

01:07:15 ◼   ► that it was coming. - True, true, true.

01:07:16 ◼   ► - But it was nice to, it wasn't just the splitting screen,

01:07:19 ◼   ► there was more stuff on top of that

01:07:20 ◼   ► and the keyboard changes, so lots of iPad love this time.

01:07:23 ◼   ► - Yep, speaking of Swift, Swift 2.0 was a thing,

01:07:26 ◼   ► and the most fascinating and interesting thing

01:07:32 ◼   ► to me about Swift 2.0 is that it not only is Swift 2.0 going to be open-sourced later

01:07:38 ◼   ► this year, but A, the reaction to that from the audience was stunningly enthusiastic.

01:07:46 ◼   ► Not that I expected people to be like, "Oh, woo," but people were like really amped up

01:07:51 ◼   ► about it, like surprisingly amped up about it. I don't know, what did you guys think?

01:07:55 ◼   ► >> I think that makes sense because I think as developers, developers in the modern age

01:07:59 ◼   ► know that if you're going to make a language,

01:08:02 ◼   ► that language is always going to suck at some degree

01:08:05 ◼   ► if it's proprietary.

01:08:07 ◼   ► If it's a single company language,

01:08:09 ◼   ► like everyone, developers know, you need to have an ecosystem.

01:08:13 ◼   ► And the best-- for languages especially,

01:08:14 ◼   ► like for APIs, frameworks, whatever, but for languages,

01:08:17 ◼   ► this just kind of accepted that if your language is going

01:08:20 ◼   ► to be worth a damn long term, it needs to not be

01:08:23 ◼   ► your own little private toy.

01:08:24 ◼   ► You need to open it up, and it needs

01:08:26 ◼   ► to be available to everyone.

01:08:27 ◼   ► It needs to not just be an Apple-specific thing.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Having more people using your language benefits the language.

01:08:33 ◼   ► Apple can still steer the ship and be in charge of it

01:08:37 ◼   ► because they write the most code and all the other stuff.

01:08:39 ◼   ► But WebKit is a great example, and that's not even a language.

01:08:42 ◼   ► For programming languages, programmers feel really nervous

01:08:45 ◼   ► about the idea that-- even though Objective C is like,

01:08:47 ◼   ► well, is that open kind of, sort of, but Apple's been advancing

01:08:51 ◼   ► and no one else-- it makes everyone feel better.

01:08:54 ◼   ► In the same way that I think the core OS,

01:08:56 ◼   ► that having Darwin be open source, which people forget about now and it seems not important,

01:08:59 ◼   ► like those are developer comfort factors. The core part of the U.S. is open source was

01:09:07 ◼   ► a big comfort factor when OS X was new, and Swift doing open source now I think makes

01:09:10 ◼   ► people feel a lot better about Swift.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Steve McLaughlin Yeah.

01:09:14 ◼   ► David Lassner So it is important to clarify though what part

01:09:16 ◼   ► is open source.

01:09:17 ◼   ► Steve McLaughlin Well, and that's the other thing I was going

01:09:19 ◼   ► to bring up. It's funny you say that because they said they're open sourcing the language,

01:09:22 ◼   ► but they also said they're open sourcing some of the frameworks.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Well, they said standard library.

01:09:26 ◼   ► What do you mean by standard library?

01:09:27 ◼   ► I'm sorry, you're right.

01:09:28 ◼   ► The things were like int and array.

01:09:31 ◼   ► That's the standard library.

01:09:32 ◼   ► Yeah, like the Swift string and array classes.

01:09:33 ◼   ► There is no Swift without the standard library.

01:09:35 ◼   ► So them saying we're open sourcing Swift

01:09:37 ◼   ► and the standard library, that's just like saying Swift.

01:09:39 ◼   ► Other frameworks?

01:09:40 ◼   ► I mean, some parts of core foundation

01:09:41 ◼   ► already are open source, but that's not Swift.

01:09:44 ◼   ► What else is there to Swift?

01:09:45 ◼   ► Are there any Swift only frameworks?

01:09:47 ◼   ► I don't know at this point.

01:09:49 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:09:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I didn't think so either.

01:09:51 ◼   ► So all there is is the language and the standard library.

01:09:55 ◼   ► and then calling into a bunch of Objective-C frameworks.

01:09:58 ◼   ► Many of which are closed source and will probably

01:10:00 ◼   ► remain that way.

01:10:01 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:01 ◼   ► So I think it's the same deal with Darwin.

01:10:04 ◼   ► Like the language-- the compiler was already open source.

01:10:06 ◼   ► The language, the standard library,

01:10:08 ◼   ► having the Linux port is basically

01:10:10 ◼   ► saying you want to write a program in Linux?

01:10:13 ◼   ► You want to use Swift to do it?

01:10:14 ◼   ► Go ahead.

01:10:15 ◼   ► Oh, but wait, I can't call into NSURLSession?

01:10:17 ◼   ► Of course you can't.

01:10:18 ◼   ► That's not on Linux.

01:10:20 ◼   ► And if they make a bunch of frameworks only

01:10:24 ◼   ► available to Swift, there will be Apple frameworks that are closed, just like the Apple closed

01:10:27 ◼   ► source frameworks. But Core Foundation is the best example because most of it is closed,

01:10:30 ◼   ► but there is a version of the CF Lite or whatever that's part of Darwin. The same thing with

01:10:35 ◼   ► the rest of OS X. A lot of OS X and the Core OS and everything are open, but then some

01:10:40 ◼   ► parts of it are proprietary like the graphics drivers or whatever that have proprietary

01:10:44 ◼   ► stuff from NV and ATI. So I think this is exactly as open source as everyone was asking

01:10:49 ◼   ► for Swift to be. And that's why everyone applauded. Because Apple has been so clearly saying,

01:10:53 ◼   ► are staking the future of our platform on this language.

01:10:56 ◼   ► And it just makes everyone feel so much better

01:10:58 ◼   ► to have it open.

01:10:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:59 ◼   ► Now, do you reckon that we are soon

01:11:01 ◼   ► to find Swift taking over for Node or the JavaScript framework

01:11:05 ◼   ► du jour of the minute, and that suddenly everything server-side

01:11:09 ◼   ► is going to be Swiftified?

01:11:11 ◼   ► I mean, that's a lot of things people talk about.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Oh, you know, it could be Apple's Dart.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Their Safari could run Swift native and translate it

01:11:19 ◼   ► to JavaScript.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Any excuse to try to get rid of JavaScript.

01:11:23 ◼   ► why can we use Swift instead?

01:11:24 ◼   ► Or I can use Swift on the client side and the server side.

01:11:27 ◼   ► And the client side would be a browser,

01:11:29 ◼   ► or it would be a native app, and you

01:11:30 ◼   ► could run Swift on the server.

01:11:31 ◼   ► And I could have shared libraries between them.

01:11:33 ◼   ► We're a long way from that.

01:11:34 ◼   ► That's what open sourcing allows to happen.

01:11:37 ◼   ► If it's worth a damn as a server-side language,

01:11:39 ◼   ► some person on Linux will try to use it, and we'll see.

01:11:41 ◼   ► Maybe they'll make libraries for it.

01:11:43 ◼   ► And those libraries-- that's the whole thing this opens up.

01:11:45 ◼   ► If you want to make a library to make server-side web

01:11:48 ◼   ► applications with Swift, you could do that now.

01:11:50 ◼   ► Because you wouldn't be like, well, it's great.

01:11:52 ◼   ► You've just got to use Max as your server.

01:11:53 ◼   ► like that's not going to happen, right?

01:11:54 ◼   ► Now that it is an open language, people

01:11:56 ◼   ► can try anything and everything with Swift.

01:11:58 ◼   ► And the community of programmers will find out

01:12:01 ◼   ► what Swift is good for and what Swift is not good for.

01:12:03 ◼   ► And if a bunch of people made a big library,

01:12:05 ◼   ► like some sort of server-side framework for writing web apps,

01:12:09 ◼   ► and it was awesome, it would live and die on its own merits.

01:12:12 ◼   ► But it is no longer limited by the fact

01:12:14 ◼   ► that Swift is confined to the Apple world.

01:12:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I do think, though, that web programmers who

01:12:19 ◼   ► are hoping to use this as a server-side language-- which I

01:12:21 ◼   ► would love to look into that, honestly. Like, that would give me a lot more reason to learn

01:12:25 ◼   ► Swift if I could use it in both places. But I think people like me are going to be disappointed

01:12:31 ◼   ► if, you know, if we try--if we think that this is going to enable us to make web apps

01:12:35 ◼   ► in Swift, like, you know, this fall or tomorrow or whatever, and we try it and it turns out

01:12:40 ◼   ► that, you know, the lack of all of the frameworks is a bit of a problem.

01:12:44 ◼   ► >> Yeah, because you would use--you would use all the sort of the frameworks for dealing

01:12:48 ◼   ► with URLs and making web requests.

01:12:50 ◼   ► And it's like, oh, well, that's not there.

01:12:52 ◼   ► Well, then what do I get?

01:12:53 ◼   ► Like, what could you share?

01:12:54 ◼   ► If you wanted to say, I want to have a bunch of code

01:12:56 ◼   ► that I share between my web app and my iOS app.

01:13:00 ◼   ► And you think, well, is there any part of your iOS app

01:13:02 ◼   ► that doesn't call any Cocoa APIs that are Apple's?

01:13:05 ◼   ► Probably not, unless you're doing a lot of math

01:13:07 ◼   ► or unless you've implemented your entire data storage layer

01:13:09 ◼   ► yourself.

01:13:10 ◼   ► And not using most of the foundation collection classes

01:13:13 ◼   ► and stuff like that, like all the stuff that either won't be

01:13:15 ◼   ► open source or--

01:13:16 ◼   ► You can use all the arrays and dictionaries and stuff

01:13:20 ◼   ► that are native to Swift and that

01:13:22 ◼   ► are bridged to the other stuff.

01:13:23 ◼   ► But yeah, this is just step two in a long potential road

01:13:28 ◼   ► to Swift being more useful than it currently is.

01:13:31 ◼   ► But this is an essential first step to say, it's open.

01:13:34 ◼   ► Now people can see what the hell it's good for.

01:13:37 ◼   ► And can submit bug fixes and can see the source

01:13:39 ◼   ► to try to debug their own problems.

01:13:41 ◼   ► Because it is a young language, and there

01:13:42 ◼   ► are going to be weird things.

01:13:43 ◼   ► And it's great when you have the source to figure out

01:13:45 ◼   ► what the hell's going on under the covers.

01:13:47 ◼   ► And who knows how many submissions they'll get.

01:13:49 ◼   ► Maybe Google will start using it and then

01:13:51 ◼   ► make their own fork of it and give it a different name.

01:13:54 ◼   ► I don't see that happening.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Yeah, if they did start using it,

01:13:56 ◼   ► they would definitely fork it within a year.

01:13:58 ◼   ► Well, it's like the WebKit example, where it's open,

01:14:00 ◼   ► and then they would kind of work together.

01:14:02 ◼   ► And it was like, you know what?

01:14:03 ◼   ► We can't even work together on this.

01:14:04 ◼   ► So never mind.

01:14:05 ◼   ► I don't see this happening, because the Swift is clearly

01:14:08 ◼   ► Apple's baby.

01:14:08 ◼   ► But yeah, this is more of a feel good moment

01:14:12 ◼   ► and a opening of many doors.

01:14:14 ◼   ► and we don't know how many of those doors

01:14:15 ◼   ► will just lead to blind alleys or bottomless pits.

01:14:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:14:19 ◼   ► - It's true.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Now, but anything else on iOS 9

01:14:22 ◼   ► that's worth discussing at this moment?

01:14:24 ◼   ► I don't think there is.

01:14:25 ◼   ► - Well, I think after the break,

01:14:27 ◼   ► we should talk about Notes and News.

01:14:30 ◼   ► - Oh, you're right, you're right.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Yep, sorry, I forgot about that.

01:14:32 ◼   ► - But first, let's do our final sponsor of the week.

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01:18:31 ◼   ► - Excellent, so now Marky, you reminded me,

01:18:32 ◼   ► we should probably talk about news.

01:18:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, so first of all, I honestly,

01:18:37 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to the Notes app.

01:18:39 ◼   ► I think it looks pretty nice.

01:18:41 ◼   ► - That's true.

01:18:42 ◼   ► - I'm not a heavy Notes user.

01:18:45 ◼   ► And part of it is because I've never liked

01:18:48 ◼   ► any of the solutions that can be synced

01:18:51 ◼   ► between Mac and iOS.

01:18:53 ◼   ► And I do so much work on the Mac that,

01:18:55 ◼   ► I would love to use Vesper by our friend John Gruber,

01:18:59 ◼   ► but I've just never gotten into it

01:19:01 ◼   ► because they don't have a Mac version yet.

01:19:04 ◼   ► And what I see from the new Notes app

01:19:07 ◼   ► looks pretty compelling, it looks really interesting

01:19:09 ◼   ► because what they've done with it

01:19:11 ◼   ► is they've made it this complete,

01:19:14 ◼   ► it looks, you know, it's a complete rich text editor.

01:19:16 ◼   ► It's almost like a word processor, but like, you know, modern.

01:19:18 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:19:19 ◼   ► - Right, right.

01:19:20 ◼   ► - And not made for print.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Like it has all these like rich formatting styles

01:19:23 ◼   ► you can apply to things, it supports inline images,

01:19:25 ◼   ► inline media, they had this cool thing

01:19:27 ◼   ► where you can like, you can convert a list of lines

01:19:29 ◼   ► into a checklist and then check them off.

01:19:31 ◼   ► So it has like this embedded checklist functionality.

01:19:33 ◼   ► A lot of these things that we see from apps like,

01:19:37 ◼   ► oh man, what's Jesse Grossjean's app that,

01:19:40 ◼   ► it's like a combination of task paper and something--

01:19:44 ◼   ► - I've got nothing.

01:19:45 ◼   ► - I have to look it up.

01:19:46 ◼   ► We'll put it in the show notes if we can find it.

01:19:47 ◼   ► But there are so many, so much rich functionality

01:19:52 ◼   ► that's in this app that appears to be there

01:19:55 ◼   ► on iOS and on Mac.

01:19:57 ◼   ► And it all syncs.

01:19:59 ◼   ► There were rumors that notes used to be synced via IMAP

01:20:03 ◼   ► with your mail account, which was a terrible idea that never worked.

01:20:05 ◼   ► >> That's the thing I tweeted. Is this still IMAP back then? I think it might be. I think

01:20:09 ◼   ► it still is because on, I think on my wife's computer, she doesn't use Apple's mail stuff

01:20:15 ◼   ► and I think every time I try to enable notes, it's like, oh, you need an email address.

01:20:19 ◼   ► >> Well, but that's the way it is today. And at one point, they flashed up a slide, it

01:20:23 ◼   ► might have been this afternoon, where it was all the bits and pieces of iCloud and Notes

01:20:29 ◼   ► was there and what I'm not sure is like if it's IMAP does that classify as still

01:20:35 ◼   ► being like like the thing the fact that it's IMAP is two bad things one I'm

01:20:39 ◼   ► implementations are weird and flaky and two you have this weird dependency where

01:20:44 ◼   ► you can't use notes in a synced manner unless you have an email account it's

01:20:48 ◼   ► like how are those two things related in any way and you'd have to know well it's

01:20:51 ◼   ► using IMAP as the back end which is gross and has always bothered me but the

01:20:54 ◼   ► reason I use notes is exactly what Marco said because there's a Mac app and an

01:20:58 ◼   ► iOS app and I use it in both places. And so I use Notes. I just read my toaster notes

01:21:04 ◼   ► off of the Notes app. And I really do edit those notes in two places. I start entering

01:21:09 ◼   ► them when I'm on my iPod. I fix them up a little bit when I'm on my computer. The thing

01:21:12 ◼   ► that annoys me about Notes is that they didn't -- I like the fact that it has all these new

01:21:16 ◼   ► features but they didn't demo the one feature I really wanted. And the thing that always

01:21:19 ◼   ► drives me nuts when I'm trying to do any kind of notes in iOS is I find myself looking in

01:21:23 ◼   ► in vain for the tab key on the iOS keyboard because I want an outline view. And they did

01:21:30 ◼   ► show bulleted lists and they showed Rick's text and they showed headings, they did not

01:21:33 ◼   ► show outlines. And I find a lot of the notes I make are outlining. Like in TextEdit it

01:21:40 ◼   ► has, I think this is held over from the next days, if people don't know, and I think I

01:21:43 ◼   ► mentioned this a few times, if you are in TextEdit on the Mac and you hit Option + Tab,

01:21:46 ◼   ► it suddenly goes into this weird pseudo-outlining, indenty, rich text mode thing that I use a

01:21:52 ◼   ► a lot. It's not great. A real outlining app like on the Outliner or something would be

01:21:55 ◼   ► way better. But I want something that's sort of available everywhere, supported by the

01:22:01 ◼   ► system. So there's still stuff for Notes to add in the next version, but I'm happy for

01:22:07 ◼   ► a bunch of additional features. And I'll be super happy if this gets off the IMAP backend

01:22:11 ◼   ► and goes on to the new CloudKit backend for real, like the native, you know, CloudKit

01:22:16 ◼   ► document type stuff instead of IMAP, because that just seems silly to me. And I don't know

01:22:22 ◼   ► maybe it's irrational that I don't trust it as much,

01:22:24 ◼   ► but I just don't.

01:22:25 ◼   ► And I've had many cases in Notes

01:22:27 ◼   ► where Notes suddenly get duplicated

01:22:28 ◼   ► and I have to delete the duplicates

01:22:29 ◼   ► and silly stuff like that,

01:22:30 ◼   ► and I'm hoping it will be better with a proper backend.

01:22:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I have to imagine,

01:22:34 ◼   ► like I don't think they would have done

01:22:35 ◼   ► this big enhancement, which, you know,

01:22:37 ◼   ► this might have been a total rewrite,

01:22:39 ◼   ► using like a CloudKit backend.

01:22:41 ◼   ► I don't think they would have done that

01:22:42 ◼   ► if they were still using IMAP,

01:22:44 ◼   ► and if they ever planned to move it off IMAP.

01:22:46 ◼   ► Like they would have waited and done it at the same time.

01:22:48 ◼   ► - I mean, it's just a bag of bytes,

01:22:49 ◼   ► like you could put whatever you want in IMAP.

01:22:50 ◼   ► I get scared in thinking like when you select all the stuff

01:22:53 ◼   ► and it makes it into a bullet list,

01:22:55 ◼   ► they're using sort of a weird bastardized markdown language

01:22:57 ◼   ► behind the scenes that it really just is a big giant text file.

01:22:59 ◼   ► That's all RTF is anyway.

01:23:01 ◼   ► But there's a line between a bunch of weird things

01:23:05 ◼   ► that humans were never supposed to see that make up

01:23:08 ◼   ► this file format and something like markdown,

01:23:10 ◼   ► where it's like we just picked-- it's supposed

01:23:12 ◼   ► to be readable as plain text.

01:23:14 ◼   ► And we just made up our own plain text thing

01:23:16 ◼   ► to mean a check mark that's checked

01:23:18 ◼   ► and a check mark that's not checked out.

01:23:20 ◼   ► I don't know. I'm hoping the backend is better on this one, but nothing they showed me definitively

01:23:26 ◼   ► says it must be. They could pull all this off on top of IMAP with a weird format under

01:23:30 ◼   ► the covers. I just hope they're not.

01:23:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm guessing it's like HTML and something like that. Or maybe it is RTF. Who knows?

01:23:37 ◼   ► Yeah, RTF is not a great format either.

01:23:39 ◼   ► Display PostScript. We'll see.

01:23:41 ◼   ► Oh, God.

01:23:42 ◼   ► All right. So I think we got to talk about this news app.

01:23:45 ◼   ► Right. Apple Instant Articles.

01:23:46 ◼   ► Yeah, that's basically -- I mean, it looks like it's a lot like -- or, you know, Apple

01:23:49 ◼   ► - Apple Instant Articles with no visible means of support.

01:23:53 ◼   ► Meaning, I'm pretty sure they did not mention

01:23:56 ◼   ► a single time ads, advertisers, or anything like that.

01:24:00 ◼   ► - Well, so on the page it says you can use iAd.

01:24:03 ◼   ► So I'm not entirely sure of the details.

01:24:05 ◼   ► We haven't had time to look into the details,

01:24:06 ◼   ► but it looks like their solution is basically,

01:24:09 ◼   ► if you want to monetize this, you can use our ad system.

01:24:12 ◼   ► - The one that everyone loves,

01:24:14 ◼   ► and is setting the world on fire.

01:24:15 ◼   ► - We don't know what their solution is,

01:24:17 ◼   ► but we do know how they presented it,

01:24:19 ◼   ► and they presented it entirely as an end user benefit.

01:24:22 ◼   ► We talked about the Facebook Instant articles being

01:24:25 ◼   ► presented as like, here's the end user benefit, instant.

01:24:28 ◼   ► You don't have to wait for stuff to load.

01:24:29 ◼   ► But they also said, here's the publisher benefit.

01:24:32 ◼   ► We'll give you all your ad money.

01:24:33 ◼   ► You'll get lots of demographics.

01:24:34 ◼   ► You've got lots of reach, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:24:36 ◼   ► Lots of social sharing.

01:24:38 ◼   ► They could start here instead of--

01:24:40 ◼   ► they gave two halves of that.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Apple only gave the consumer half.

01:24:43 ◼   ► This is a cool way for you to read news.

01:24:45 ◼   ► Look at this nice app.

01:24:46 ◼   ► Look at these beautiful articles.

01:24:48 ◼   ► Isn't it nice?

01:24:48 ◼   ► A little bit they said, look at these rich layouts.

01:24:51 ◼   ► That could be pitched towards the publishers a little bit.

01:24:53 ◼   ► Hey, this looks like the New York Times.

01:24:55 ◼   ► Don't get nervous, New York Times.

01:24:56 ◼   ► Your stuff will still look like the New York Times.

01:24:59 ◼   ► But it was still, I think, mostly pitched entirely

01:25:01 ◼   ► towards the customer of saying, these publications

01:25:04 ◼   ► look the way you expect them to look.

01:25:05 ◼   ► They still have personality.

01:25:07 ◼   ► You can find them all in one place.