ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Yeah, and I'm listening to top four and it's driving me insane because Margo is the worst

00:00:03 ◼   ► Podcast host of a show with top four ever. Oh my god

00:00:07 ◼   ► I thought the same thing and I'm too nice a guy to say it

00:00:10 ◼   ► I don't understand how Tiff has the patience of a saint like it would just pick four things like make him write it down on

00:00:15 ◼   ► A piece of paper everything is number five what everything can't be number five and then within the top four

00:00:21 ◼   ► It's like this is my number one and then all these are tied for number two. That's not how top four works

00:00:27 ◼   ► The show is though and I like the fact at the end of the episode you admitted it and like explain like I realized it

00:00:32 ◼   ► But I'm I'm not able to even follow the simple formula and Tiff is like she's fine with it

00:00:36 ◼   ► Yep, how she can live with you. Well, she you know, she tolerates me. Yeah, she does

00:00:41 ◼   ► I was like she's not even frustrated by it. Like the show is called top four

00:00:44 ◼   ► I'm still bitter that you didn't bring up transport tycoon. I'm so angry at you for that

00:00:51 ◼   ► No, that's not what he picked. It's not your top four. It's their top four. Yeah, but I know it's his top four

00:00:55 ◼   ► Apparently it's not it's probably that one was probably at number 15 with every other game in existence

00:00:59 ◼   ► But I couldn't agree with you more John

00:01:02 ◼   ► Marco you've got to get a grip on the top four

00:01:04 ◼   ► It's so easy to do you just see if I did not write number one two three and four and you write words next each

00:01:09 ◼   ► one of them

00:01:11 ◼   ► So easy to do TIFF does it TIFF does it see how watch her do it if you need like help

00:01:17 ◼   ► She does such a good job. She has a list of all the ones she considered. She's got her top four

00:01:22 ◼   ► She has reasons that you're just like, "I don't know, TV shows? I like some of them."

00:01:26 ◼   ► Well, I like this one a lot. And then there's these 34 other ones that are somewhere down below.

00:01:33 ◼   ► It's difficult to talk you into changing your mind halfway through the show.

00:01:37 ◼   ► And she's like, "You're just saying that because I liked it."

00:01:41 ◼   ► You're like, "No, no, no, I've changed my mind at this moment."

00:01:44 ◼   ► Boy, good thing she's on that show. She's really carrying you.

00:01:46 ◼   ► I agree.

00:01:49 ◼   ► Oh my god, that's so true.

00:01:51 ◼   ► true. Oh, Jon, I love you.

00:01:53 ◼   ► I enjoyed it. What is the next episode going to be about?

00:01:57 ◼   ► All right, let's start with, we've learned that not only does this universe have many,

00:02:03 ◼   ► many, many, many, many tap-to-click wizards, but as I believe Jon has phrased in the show

00:02:09 ◼   ► notes, we have also found that there are quite a few CEC unicorns.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Yeah, it's kind of an oxymoron because the whole thing of unicorn is like the one rare,

00:02:18 ◼   ► you know, the last unicorn, but if there's a lot of them, they're obviously not unicorns.

00:02:21 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, lots of CEC unicorns. The last show, I expressed my general disdain

00:02:26 ◼   ► for CEC and my frustration with it almost working. Like that's the thing about it. Like

00:02:32 ◼   ► it almost works. It works some of the time. You can kind of get it to work. You're going

00:02:35 ◼   ► to think you have everything set up and it's working perfectly. And then things will go

00:02:39 ◼   ► wrong in a way that you can't debug and you maybe you'll never be able to get them to

00:02:43 ◼   ► work again. That's been my experience with CEC across many different manufacturers in

00:02:46 ◼   ► many years. so i asked, "anyone use cec and have good things to say about it?" and i did get a bunch

00:02:52 ◼   ► of people tweeting that they have, you know, i have a mixed component setup with components

00:02:56 ◼   ► from different companies and it works for me, i have a complete panasonic setup and it works for

00:03:01 ◼   ► me, so probably maybe fewer than the tap to click wizards, but a surprising number of people are

00:03:07 ◼   ► using cec and are happy with it. a lot of them admittedly have fairly simple needs, like they're

00:03:12 ◼   ► They're like, I turn this thing on and it switches my input

00:03:14 ◼   ► and turns the other thing on.

00:03:16 ◼   ► I think as the number of devices you connect increases

00:03:19 ◼   ► and as you have greater expectations,

00:03:21 ◼   ► like not only does it have to just auto switch inputs

00:03:24 ◼   ► and turn on the television and stuff,

00:03:26 ◼   ► but do a bunch of other things

00:03:27 ◼   ► in terms of changing surround settings

00:03:29 ◼   ► or whatever other things it can do,

00:03:31 ◼   ► then maybe it goes more awry.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And maybe it's gotten better since I bought my TV

00:03:35 ◼   ► and receiver a couple of years ago, so who knows?

00:03:37 ◼   ► But anyway, if you want to be optimistic about CEC,

00:03:41 ◼   ► There are people out there who are using it successfully and happily and it's working for them

00:03:44 ◼   ► and

00:03:46 ◼   ► Robert Engdahl wrote in to explain why CEC might be so terrible

00:03:50 ◼   ► He is an ASIC designer. What does that stand for guys? That is oh, I don't remember offhand. Is it the shoe?

00:03:56 ◼   ► Nicely done. Yeah, I can't believe I don't know this acronym off the top of my head Australian Securities and Investments Commission. Yeah

00:04:04 ◼   ► Application specific integrated circuit. Yeah, how can I not pull that out? I'm getting old guys. All right. Anyway,

00:04:10 ◼   ► It's an ASIC engineer with HDMI experience.

00:04:15 ◼   ► And he says the CEC protocol is crappy because only a limited set of commands are defined

00:04:22 ◼   ► in the protocol, and the rest is entirely up to the manufacturer of the device.

00:04:26 ◼   ► So there's a small set of commands that are defined, and then device makers can make up

00:04:30 ◼   ► anything they want.

00:04:31 ◼   ► And so I assume, like, Panasonic will make up a bunch of stuff that works with its own

00:04:35 ◼   ► stuff, and Sony will make up stuff that works with its own stuff.

00:04:37 ◼   ► top of that the spec for CEC says even the defined commands you don't have to implement them they're

00:04:43 ◼   ► not mandatory so even though there are a small number of defined commands and you can extend

00:04:47 ◼   ► them you don't even have to implement the defined commands you could for example implement your own

00:04:51 ◼   ► volume up down or input switching thing that works with your receiver not implement the the standard

00:04:55 ◼   ► one. HDMI 2.0 apparently fixes this but HDMI 2.0 isn't out yet on a lot of hardware so CEC could

00:05:04 ◼   ► could get better in HDMI 2.0 because they kind of learned

00:05:06 ◼   ► from the past that if you let the manufacturers do whatever

00:05:08 ◼   ► they want with your protocol, they'll

00:05:10 ◼   ► do things that are not conducive to mixing components,

00:05:14 ◼   ► and maybe not even conducive to mixing with their own components

00:05:16 ◼   ► from distantly separated by time,

00:05:19 ◼   ► and not having the defined commands be mandatory.

00:05:23 ◼   ► Like, I don't even know what kind of standard is that.

00:05:25 ◼   ► If you don't have to implement the defined commands,

00:05:26 ◼   ► then you can make up your own commands,

00:05:27 ◼   ► it's basically the Wild West.

00:05:29 ◼   ► So that is the explanation for why

00:05:32 ◼   ► people who have bad experiences with CDC have bad experiences.

00:05:35 ◼   ► All right. Moving on, we had yet another excellent post from dear friend of the show, _DavidSmith.

00:05:44 ◼   ► My favorite David Smith blog posts are when he goes spelunking into data that he has gathered

00:05:49 ◼   ► or can discover and figure out little tidbits or perhaps confirm little tidbits that people

00:05:57 ◼   ► theorize or maybe don't even realize is true.

00:06:00 ◼   ► And so the blog post that is in question, which relates to

00:06:03 ◼   ► what we had lamented last episode, is entitled "16

00:06:08 ◼   ► Gigabytes is a Bad User Experience." And in this post,

00:06:12 ◼   ► Underscore goes through his homegrown analytics that he

00:06:17 ◼   ► has in his very popular app, Audiobooks, that's not a super

00:06:22 ◼   ► duper nerdy app and so it's got a really good kind of install base of regular people and

00:06:30 ◼   ► he has these graphs of reported free space for 16 gig phones and if you look at these

00:06:38 ◼   ► graphs it's abundantly obvious that almost all these phones have almost no available

00:06:43 ◼   ► free space and that just doesn't seem good.

00:06:47 ◼   ► So was it John that pulled out a couple of these choice quotes?

00:06:49 ◼   ► Would you like to go over them?

00:06:50 ◼   ► So the first thing is like I said, this is these are just the customers of one application

00:06:55 ◼   ► But it's not a super nerdy application

00:06:57 ◼   ► But anyway, the this is the the premises discussion is this is just among people who bought this one app from this one developer

00:07:03 ◼   ► We're hoping it's representative. This is the best data we have

00:07:05 ◼   ► It seems like it could be representative if anything. It might skew more nerdy. I don't know. Anyway, this is among

00:07:12 ◼   ► iPhone 6 and 6 plus customers only

00:07:15 ◼   ► 43% of iPhone 6 and 6 plus customers have 16 gig models

00:07:19 ◼   ► That's what I was getting at in the last show when I was saying it used to be that the most popular

00:07:23 ◼   ► Model of whatever Apple product was always the most expensive fanciest one and that started to change

00:07:28 ◼   ► I don't know at this point like a decade ago

00:07:30 ◼   ► But anyway, it changed and now since Apple is a mass-market company and sells tons and tons of things

00:07:35 ◼   ► Obviously, it's going to skew more towards how you'd expect but even I was surprised to see that 43% of iPhone 6 6 plus customers

00:07:41 ◼   ► got the 16 gig model because

00:07:44 ◼   ► That's the newest fanciest iPhone. It's not like we're saying that the people buying last year's the year before phone

00:07:50 ◼   ► They're cheaping out

00:07:50 ◼   ► These are the people who want the new iPhone and just want it like I said the last show

00:07:54 ◼   ► Want to find the cheapest possible way they can get it so 16 gig model now among the people with a 16 gig iPhone 6 and 6

00:08:01 ◼   ► pluses

00:08:02 ◼   ► 37% of them have less than a gig of space available and less than a gig of space available

00:08:06 ◼   ► Just is basically full like less than a gig is

00:08:08 ◼   ► Almost anything can happen and it could push you over the edge

00:08:12 ◼   ► You are you know that's the point where OS 10 would start popping up dialogues in your face and saying

00:08:16 ◼   ► Your disk looks like it's almost full you you know do something about that

00:08:19 ◼   ► and

00:08:22 ◼   ► The other theory is like okay well fine, but I bet everybody fills up their phones well

00:08:26 ◼   ► Among people who have 64 gig phones only 1% of them have filled them to that amount so it's not as if space

00:08:33 ◼   ► It doesn't matter. It's not like lanes on a highway where all you just make the phone bigger

00:08:36 ◼   ► Oh people are just gonna fill it there is a certain amount of stuff that people have or expected to encounter during the useful lifetime

00:08:42 ◼   ► of the phone and according to these stats if you have a 64 gig phone only 1% of the

00:08:46 ◼   ► people have basically filled it and among 16 gig phones almost 40% have filled it.

00:08:51 ◼   ► And then finally taking these customers the ones who have the 6 and 6 plus who have filled

00:08:57 ◼   ► it up you know multiplying the percentages together who have filled it up this is 17%

00:09:03 ◼   ► of the customers of this audiobooks application are basically walking around all day as underscore

00:09:08 ◼   ► puts it with a, I'm not going to be able to pronounce this, Damoclean sword dangling over

00:09:11 ◼   ► their head. Did I get that right? You know, the big sword that swings back and forth,

00:09:15 ◼   ► a ground poe.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Is it Damoclean? I don't know. I'm going out on a limb here.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Sword of Damocles. Anyway.

00:09:20 ◼   ► I don't even know what that was.

00:09:22 ◼   ► Yeah, you can look it up, Marco. Get some culture. Yeah, so 17% of the customers. Now,

00:09:29 ◼   ► is this representative of all iPhone users in the entire world? We don't know. This is

00:09:33 ◼   ► It's one developers customers for one kind of general interest app only the iPhone 6 6 plus things

00:09:39 ◼   ► but these numbers do not look promising like I

00:09:42 ◼   ► Again, I would think that

00:09:44 ◼   ► Underscore's customers who skew even more nerdy because he moves in nerdy circles. He is nerdy some of the apps

00:09:49 ◼   ► He sells are nerdy

00:09:50 ◼   ► But other ones are like pedometer plus plus and the weather app and stuff and the audiobooks app are just general

00:09:55 ◼   ► You know general interest applications

00:09:57 ◼   ► Again Apple we've said this before Apple has the real numbers

00:10:01 ◼   ► We don't have the real numbers, so that impairs our ability to definitively shame them for selling 16 gig models.

00:10:07 ◼   ► But,

00:10:09 ◼   ► the little data that we have, you know, we're not Apple and they're not sharing this information. The data that we can glean,

00:10:13 ◼   ► here's some more support for the theory that a 16 gig phone is not a good experience for users.

00:10:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it's, it seems completely obvious to me that this is a terrible, terrible, terrible decision.

00:10:24 ◼   ► And just like you said, Jon, you know, we don't have all the data that Apple has, but

00:10:28 ◼   ► Gosh, I would love to see what metric they're using to justify this and and if it's not something related to profit or

00:10:37 ◼   ► Margins or something along those lines one of those business II terms that I'm not very good with then money. Yeah money

00:10:44 ◼   ► Money, I want to know what what this metric is if it isn't just money because it seems so obvious to me

00:10:51 ◼   ► This is just a terrible terrible terrible decision. I mean, it's look I

00:10:56 ◼   ► I'm totally in agreement with you Casey.

00:10:58 ◼   ► I mean, it's, you can look at all the different

00:11:01 ◼   ► possible explanations of why they might reasonably

00:11:03 ◼   ► have done this, but none of them are particularly strong,

00:11:06 ◼   ► especially for a very high profit product like the iPhone,

00:11:10 ◼   ► even at the 16 gig capacity.

00:11:13 ◼   ► So the reality is, Apple very well could ship that device

00:11:17 ◼   ► with 32 or even 64 at that price point

00:11:20 ◼   ► and barely affect the margins of that product at all.

00:11:24 ◼   ► But I think the reason they do it, as we said before,

00:11:26 ◼   ► is not because they can't afford to put 16 gigs

00:11:29 ◼   ► in a $650 phone, right, is that what it is?

00:11:33 ◼   ► - Something like that, yeah.

00:11:34 ◼   ► - Right, it's not because of that.

00:11:36 ◼   ► It's because if they did that, it would hurt sales

00:11:38 ◼   ► of the one that's $100 more, and so it would drive

00:11:41 ◼   ► their average sale price down in all likelihoods.

00:11:44 ◼   ► So that is why it's not done, it's simple as that.

00:11:47 ◼   ► Any other explanation is really just grasping at straws,

00:11:51 ◼   ► trying to make an excuse, that is the real reason.

00:11:54 ◼   ► I completely agree. I could go on forever about this, but I feel like we've kind of

00:11:58 ◼   ► beaten this horse, I should say.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Moving on, let's talk about the iPhone 6s battery. I guess we had talked about it getting

00:12:08 ◼   ► a little bit smaller last episode, is that right? One way or another, it got smaller,

00:12:12 ◼   ► and the numbers say that the iPhone 6 had a 1,810 milliamp-hour battery. The iPhone

00:12:19 ◼   ► 6S has 1,715, so almost exactly

00:12:22 ◼   ► 100 milliamp hour difference.

00:12:24 ◼   ► And that is about a 5% loss

00:12:28 ◼   ► in terms of the new iPhone's 6S battery.

00:12:32 ◼   ► Or I guess that's just the 6S, I'm sorry, not the 6S Plus,

00:12:36 ◼   ► which is a little bit of a loss,

00:12:37 ◼   ► but presumably the different chips on the device,

00:12:42 ◼   ► and they did a shrink, didn't they, on this one?

00:12:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, they did.

00:12:45 ◼   ► Remember in the keynote, they wanted to say

00:12:47 ◼   ► they did a shrink, but they did it in like

00:12:48 ◼   ► regular person speak instead of jargon.

00:12:51 ◼   ► And so it confused all the nerds.

00:12:53 ◼   ► Like, wait, are they trying to say shrink?

00:12:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm pretty sure they did a shrink.

00:12:57 ◼   ► The other thing they do very often is reduce the number of chips, get chips that combine

00:13:02 ◼   ► functionality that previously took two separate chips.

00:13:04 ◼   ► I'm assuming that they can absorb this 5% loss combined with the shrink and the efficiencies

00:13:09 ◼   ► of just a second crack at the same size form factor.

00:13:12 ◼   ► So it probably should be fine.

00:13:13 ◼   ► But again, I just wanted to put some hard numbers on like the last show where like,

00:13:16 ◼   ► "Oh, it looks like that vibration and taptic engine thing takes up a lot of room."

00:13:19 ◼   ► Well, quantify it, and quantifying it, it looks like it's about 5%.

00:13:22 ◼   ► And by the way, these numbers are pulled from Apple's videos, where they like pan over the

00:13:28 ◼   ► innards and show the battery, and on the battery is stamped the power rating.

00:13:34 ◼   ► And of course the iPhone 6 everybody knows from teardowns and stuff.

00:13:37 ◼   ► So...

00:13:38 ◼   ► Although, this also leaked beforehand.

00:13:40 ◼   ► This information leaked weeks before, actually.

00:13:44 ◼   ► And I believe the leak was right on.

00:13:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, they usually are, but I just want to give people

00:13:49 ◼   ► the source because if it turns out that the video was wrong

00:13:52 ◼   ► because someone photoshopped that number on there

00:13:54 ◼   ► and leaks were wrong and the real battery is different,

00:13:56 ◼   ► you know, anyway.

00:13:58 ◼   ► - I mean, one thing to consider, first of all,

00:14:01 ◼   ► this, the 5% loss of raw capacity and saying

00:14:05 ◼   ► it's the same battery life, that could also,

00:14:08 ◼   ► even if you ignore any kind of component changes,

00:14:11 ◼   ► they made iOS 9 more battery efficient.

00:14:13 ◼   ► And so they can say, oh, it gets X hours

00:14:17 ◼   ► just because it's a new OS.

00:14:19 ◼   ► They do the same thing on the Macs or the laptops.

00:14:21 ◼   ► They also, I don't know if they're including

00:14:24 ◼   ► in their battery runtime estimates,

00:14:26 ◼   ► if they are including the low power mode

00:14:28 ◼   ► being turned on at 10% or whatever it is,

00:14:30 ◼   ► 20 or 10 that it turns on.

00:14:32 ◼   ► - Does that, is that automatically turned on?

00:14:34 ◼   ► - It prompts you to turn it on.

00:14:35 ◼   ► But I'm guessing if you wanna fudge a number a little bit

00:14:39 ◼   ► and really optimize your number,

00:14:41 ◼   ► they would probably do that,

00:14:42 ◼   ► and they could argue that that's fair

00:14:43 ◼   ► because most people would do that anyway.

00:14:45 ◼   ► So it could be including those things

00:14:49 ◼   ► where it wasn't before.

00:14:51 ◼   ► So keep that in mind when you read the official estimates.

00:14:54 ◼   ► We'll see what happens in practice.

00:14:56 ◼   ► I am still very skeptical.

00:14:57 ◼   ► I, oh man, I just went to XOXO

00:15:01 ◼   ► and I took the 6 Plus with me.

00:15:04 ◼   ► And I've been using the 6 all year

00:15:06 ◼   ► except for when I took another trip

00:15:08 ◼   ► or another series of trips.

00:15:09 ◼   ► But I went back to the 6 Plus for this trip

00:15:11 ◼   ► battery life primarily and wow it is glorious and then going back to the 6 after a week

00:15:17 ◼   ► of the 6 plus again oh my god it's so it's so bad I wish they would meaningfully improve

00:15:24 ◼   ► the battery life but it's very clear that they think this is good enough and I don't

00:15:30 ◼   ► and so we just disagree on that I will say one thing though that you know in on this

00:15:36 ◼   ► this battery topic, we've talked in the past about how the reason the phone might be this

00:15:42 ◼   ► skinny and light and have a mediocre battery life is, John, I believe what you term the

00:15:46 ◼   ► naked robotic core theory, which is that the ideal phone is this really tiny thing that

00:15:52 ◼   ► is so small that you can put it in a case if you want some other ability, whether it's

00:15:57 ◼   ► more durability, more battery life, whatever cases can offer. You can put it in a case

00:16:04 ◼   ► to fix the shortcomings of being small.

00:16:06 ◼   ► And then if you want a really small phone,

00:16:07 ◼   ► you can just carry the naked phone.

00:16:09 ◼   ► And so I looked after this trip over the last few days.

00:16:14 ◼   ► I've been trying to research iPhone battery cases.

00:16:17 ◼   ► And I had one in the past and it was so big and clunky,

00:16:20 ◼   ► I never really used it.

00:16:22 ◼   ► And it doesn't fit my current phone now,

00:16:24 ◼   ► but I look to see what's out there today

00:16:26 ◼   ► and they're just so, so terrible.

00:16:29 ◼   ► And I feel like one of the biggest arguments

00:16:31 ◼   ► against the naked robotic core theory

00:16:33 ◼   ► is just how bad all the other cases are.

00:16:37 ◼   ► Like if you want to give this phone 50% more battery life,

00:16:41 ◼   ► you have to add so much bulk and so much size,

00:16:45 ◼   ► way more than if they would have just built it in

00:16:47 ◼   ► to begin with.

00:16:48 ◼   ► Plus, it's this big like, you know, plastic thing

00:16:50 ◼   ► with some stupid logo on the back that's so ugly and tacky

00:16:53 ◼   ► that no one's heard of from some case company who cares.

00:16:56 ◼   ► Right, you have to care in this stupid logo.

00:16:58 ◼   ► And then you have this,

00:17:00 ◼   ► then you have like this giant plug on the bottom,

00:17:03 ◼   ► the phone has to be extended by like a half inch just to have room for this plug. It's

00:17:10 ◼   ► the bulkiest, most terrible decision ever. And so this is, I think, like a huge strike

00:17:15 ◼   ► against the naked robotic core theory is that by doing that, by going that direction, and

00:17:23 ◼   ► by, let's say you want more battery, okay, buy a battery case. That argument falls apart

00:17:28 ◼   ► when all the battery cases are varying degrees of terrible.

00:17:30 ◼   ► So I generally agree with you.

00:17:34 ◼   ► I do have a Lenmar battery case, which I'll put the link

00:17:38 ◼   ► in the show notes for what I have.

00:17:41 ◼   ► And I use it only when I know that I'm going to need some

00:17:46 ◼   ► extra juice, which is almost never.

00:17:48 ◼   ► The only time I typically use it is at WWDC and when I go to

00:17:52 ◼   ► football games when my phone is just desperately melting

00:17:56 ◼   ► its own battery trying to search for service.

00:18:00 ◼   ► And it is exactly as you describe.

00:18:02 ◼   ► It is enormous, it is bulky, it was not cheap.

00:18:07 ◼   ► I don't remember how much it was.

00:18:08 ◼   ► It was cheaper than the Mophie was at the time.

00:18:11 ◼   ► And I chose it for more than just frugality.

00:18:15 ◼   ► I forget why else I chose it.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Maybe the battery was a little bit bigger.

00:18:18 ◼   ► It adds a crapload of bulk to a phone that I still think is a little bit big for my taste.

00:18:25 ◼   ► But that being said, just today I got an email from Mophie where they have announced a new

00:18:30 ◼   ► new juice pack, which is their line of batteries, called the Juice Pack Reserve.

00:18:35 ◼   ► And we'll put that link in the show notes, and I've just put it in the chat room.

00:18:38 ◼   ► This one is a very, very, very slimline battery that does not look to add very much bulk at

00:18:44 ◼   ► all.

00:18:45 ◼   ► In fact, in the email, which I don't have in front of me, they had in, they had, oh,

00:18:49 ◼   ► here it is, now on the same page.

00:18:51 ◼   ► They show that without the Juice Pack, it's 6.86 millimeters, and with this Juice Pack

00:18:59 ◼   ► reserve, it is 14.79 millimeters, whereas with the average, as they say it, or typical

00:19:05 ◼   ► as they say a protective case, it would be 15 millimeters. So in other words, it is no

00:19:09 ◼   ► thicker than a normal case you would put on your phone by whatever they define normal.

00:19:15 ◼   ► This actually looks extremely appealing to me, and I would absolutely buy one if it wasn't

00:19:18 ◼   ► for the fact that I already have a case. So this might be the exception that proves the

00:19:22 ◼   ► rule. Generally speaking, though, I think you hit the nail on the head, they are all

00:19:25 ◼   ► terrible and huge and bulky and annoying.

00:19:27 ◼   ► They're just terrible and huge to people like us though. Like you I mean think forget battery cases just think cases

00:19:33 ◼   ► We all see people with cases on their phones that we consider hideous and huge and ridiculous

00:19:38 ◼   ► I've seen people with non battery cases that are bigger than any battery case that I've seen that are

00:19:43 ◼   ► Colored like the rainbow that that might as well have like fins and wedges poking out of them and people love them

00:19:48 ◼   ► So there's no accounting for taste, right? So that set that aside

00:19:51 ◼   ► the other thing I would say is that uh, as

00:19:53 ◼   ► Every time this comes up I say it

00:19:56 ◼   ► There's a place in Apple's line for a phone that is thicker and has more battery life. That is not the 6 plus

00:20:01 ◼   ► They don't currently make that but if they keep diversifying maybe eventually they will and that would satisfy Marco's need for a Johnny I've

00:20:08 ◼   ► designed hopefully non teflon coated

00:20:10 ◼   ► Nice looking phone where he doesn't have to deal with someone else's thing slapping on to he doesn't have to deal with it extending the port

00:20:17 ◼   ► He's not a deal with a different logo and all the things that he finds distasteful about it

00:20:20 ◼   ► But I would say that people like him and people like me are in the vast

00:20:25 ◼   ► Minority based on what I see out in the world of how much people love their super ugly like a wallet credit card

00:20:30 ◼   ► You know card jack combined whatever like bottle opener iPhone cases that people have on it like

00:20:37 ◼   ► Seriously, I of all the problems that that's I would think that people consider that a feature like this

00:20:44 ◼   ► That is the one thing of the naked robotic core allows is allows people to exercise their different tastes

00:20:50 ◼   ► let's say. You can exercise your taste with a sticker. Please don't encourage stickers.

00:20:55 ◼   ► Besides, they'll probably like melt to the thing because it gets so warm as you noted

00:20:58 ◼   ► when you used it without a case, right? Yes. Yeah, I think I've turned into a case person

00:21:03 ◼   ► with the 6 simply because, and I can choose the Apple leather case because it's really

00:21:08 ◼   ► slim and feels very good. I always like the feel of leather. Ooh, title. Even that, like

00:21:14 ◼   ► I, because the 6 is just such a bad phone to hold.

00:21:18 ◼   ► And I've heard rumblings that the new phone

00:21:23 ◼   ► is significantly grippier, but I have my doubts

00:21:26 ◼   ► that just because of the shape, like it's the same shape.

00:21:29 ◼   ► And the 6 is a problem for two main reasons.

00:21:33 ◼   ► One is the shape, one is the slickness of the metal.

00:21:36 ◼   ► And so even if they've made the slickness

00:21:38 ◼   ► of the metal better, the shape is such that

00:21:41 ◼   ► it's still probably gonna be very hard to hold.

00:21:43 ◼   ► You tell me you didn't get to hold one at XOXO?

00:21:45 ◼   ► You don't have to say who let you hold it.

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00:24:14 ◼   ► - So before we get off this topic,

00:24:17 ◼   ► one thing I meant to bring up earlier

00:24:18 ◼   ► was the idea of an Apple branded battery case.

00:24:22 ◼   ► Apple has been making,

00:24:24 ◼   ► seems like more and more accessories lately.

00:24:27 ◼   ► But yeah, there's third party everything,

00:24:29 ◼   ► but there's also a first party, a lot of stuff.

00:24:32 ◼   ► They brought the dock back recently.

00:24:33 ◼   ► The new one I think even has a headphone port

00:24:35 ◼   ► the back of it and you can get it in pink I mean so excuse me rose gold it's

00:24:40 ◼   ► so pink just own it just say it it's pink yeah I haven't seen them person yet

00:24:44 ◼   ► I assume it's it's pink in the same way that the gold one is gold and the answer

00:24:48 ◼   ► is like barely but anyway no no no no it's it's really pink yeah so I haven't

00:24:52 ◼   ► seen the phone but I did go to the Apple Store Sunday oh I should do this quick

00:24:57 ◼   ► well I'll get to that in a second anyway I went to the up store Sunday saw the

00:25:00 ◼   ► watch the rose gold watch it was pink it was not rose gold it was pink it's very

00:25:05 ◼   ► much pink. I mean, it does look like it's roughly the same saturation as the gold, but

00:25:12 ◼   ► it is unquestionably, unashamedly pink. And I don't know why they don't just call it pink.

00:25:19 ◼   ► You would never look at this color and say, "That's rose gold." No, it's pink, and pink

00:25:22 ◼   ► is great. I don't know why you wouldn't just own that.

00:25:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it looks good. I really honestly do, so I agree with you. Anyway, I'm sorry,

00:25:29 ◼   ► we totally hijacked your thought here, Jon.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't remember where I was in my thought.

00:25:33 ◼   ► I think what I was getting at was, oh yeah, Apple making battery cases.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Apple makes a bunch of stuff.

00:25:37 ◼   ► They make leather cases.

00:25:38 ◼   ► They don't just make even one case anymore.

00:25:40 ◼   ► They make a leather case.

00:25:41 ◼   ► They have the silicone case.

00:25:43 ◼   ► They have those weird things with the holes in them on the back of the old iPod touches.

00:25:47 ◼   ► They have the docks.

00:25:50 ◼   ► Why wouldn't they make a battery case eventually?

00:25:52 ◼   ► And if they did, the idea would be like, well, if Apple made one, Marco would like it.

00:25:56 ◼   ► But based on the accessories that they've made lately, I don't think that's guaranteed.

00:26:01 ◼   ► Maybe they would have a higher chance of making a battery case that Marco would not find objectionable

00:26:06 ◼   ► But I mean just look at those docks where your entire phone is sitting on the lightning port. That's not great

00:26:12 ◼   ► It's kind of wobbly and you know, it makes me a little nervous and the leather case is good

00:26:17 ◼   ► Most of their cases are okay. I always like the bumper remember the the bumper they made

00:26:22 ◼   ► I thought yes, it was a really nice case because it had like the shiny edges

00:26:25 ◼   ► But then it had rubber on the parts that you gripped and had metal buttons in them

00:26:28 ◼   ► anyway

00:26:30 ◼   ► If that ever happens, maybe it will help Marco with his battery woes.

00:26:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I like the bumper as well.

00:26:37 ◼   ► But I will say that for the 5S and the 6, I have been rocking the Apple leather case.

00:26:42 ◼   ► I have gotten it in black because that's the way it should be done.

00:26:46 ◼   ► And beyond that, it's probably the only one that doesn't eventually turn black anyway

00:26:50 ◼   ► because it's already black.

00:26:52 ◼   ► I quite like this Apple leather case.

00:26:55 ◼   ► If I was brave enough, I would roll without a case at all, but I'm not that brave.

00:27:00 ◼   ► And although I have yet to break an iPhone, it is only a matter of time, and now I've

00:27:04 ◼   ► probably jinxed what I've purchased, which we'll talk about in a minute.

00:27:08 ◼   ► So I will hopefully stick with this Apple leather case going forward.

00:27:12 ◼   ► Before we talk about our purchases from this past weekend, I wanted to do a very brief,

00:27:16 ◼   ► very quick follow-up with regard to my crescent moon on my iPhone 6.

00:27:22 ◼   ► Again, if you haven't been keeping up and following along, that is, there was a crescent

00:27:28 ◼   ► Moon kind of thing in the front-facing camera.

00:27:31 ◼   ► I believe they call that the FaceTime camera on my iPhone 6.

00:27:34 ◼   ► I realized that we were running out of warranty time for those of us who purchased on launch

00:27:39 ◼   ► day like I did.

00:27:40 ◼   ► And so I took my iPhone into the local Apple store this past Sunday.

00:27:47 ◼   ► I mentioned the Crescent Moon.

00:27:48 ◼   ► The Genius didn't even blink twice.

00:27:50 ◼   ► He said, "Okay, we will get you a new screen.

00:27:53 ◼   ► It'll take about 45 minutes."

00:27:55 ◼   ► He took my phone from me.

00:27:57 ◼   ► Interestingly, he forced me to turn off, like not in a jerky way, I should say he asked me to turn off Find My iPhone, which

00:28:04 ◼   ► I guess isn't a bad thing, but it struck me as a little bit odd. Like if all they're doing is replacing the screen,

00:28:11 ◼   ► why does that really matter? Maybe in case they screw something up and then need to replace the phone? I don't know.

00:28:17 ◼   ► We had people write in about that too. One person was super angry about having to, you know,

00:28:21 ◼   ► being told to like enter his passwords and unlock everything and not encrypt it and turn off like whatever.

00:28:26 ◼   ► I'm always nervous about what is actually going on.

00:28:30 ◼   ► It's like when the Grinch takes your Christmas tree back

00:28:32 ◼   ► to repair it, right?

00:28:34 ◼   ► I'm giving you my phone and then a little while later

00:28:37 ◼   ► you're going to emerge with another thing

00:28:39 ◼   ► that you say is my phone.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Are any part of those phones related?

00:28:43 ◼   ► Am I just getting a new refurbished phone?

00:28:44 ◼   ► Did you really replace the screen?

00:28:46 ◼   ► Does this thing come apart and go back together

00:28:50 ◼   ► in a way that is, you know,

00:28:52 ◼   ► is it meant to come apart and go back together?

00:28:54 ◼   ► Is it possible to even do that?

00:28:55 ◼   ► Is it a one way assembly?

00:28:56 ◼   ► I'm always nervous about things like this.

00:28:58 ◼   ► That's why I always just really hope I win the lottery

00:29:02 ◼   ► and get something that doesn't have any problems.

00:29:04 ◼   ► So it's like my old laptop.

00:29:05 ◼   ► Like once I opened up my old laptop

00:29:07 ◼   ► to replace the hard drive,

00:29:08 ◼   ► and it's never been the same again.

00:29:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:29:11 ◼   ► I'm not good at doing that.

00:29:12 ◼   ► Presumably they're better at the Apple store

00:29:14 ◼   ► where they do it over and over and over again,

00:29:15 ◼   ► but I'm always nervous about that.

00:29:17 ◼   ► And the smaller the thing gets, the more, yeah, I don't know.

00:29:20 ◼   ► They've gotta be better than I am, but still.

00:29:22 ◼   ► - As far as I can tell, I did get the same phone back.

00:29:24 ◼   ► I mean, I didn't need to restore from backup all the--

00:29:28 ◼   ► - No, no, but that's, but if they have you turn off

00:29:29 ◼   ► all that stuff, that's the whole thing.

00:29:30 ◼   ► You don't, you know, like what you should have done

00:29:32 ◼   ► is put like a tiny microscopic, you know,

00:29:35 ◼   ► etching of your initials in some part of the case

00:29:36 ◼   ► that they say they're not replacing

00:29:37 ◼   ► and see it's still there when you get it back.

00:29:39 ◼   ► - Put a hair across the headphone port

00:29:41 ◼   ► and if it's nice, you'll know.

00:29:43 ◼   ► - I mean, it's hard to tell because this thing

00:29:45 ◼   ► has lived in a case pretty much since day one,

00:29:47 ◼   ► but it does look good, I'm not gonna lie.

00:29:50 ◼   ► I mean, I didn't inspect it for scuffs

00:29:53 ◼   ► apparently the genius had noted that it had. I do know that where there was a little scratch in the

00:29:58 ◼   ► screen there isn't a scratch anymore, but that makes sense because they replaced the screen.

00:30:02 ◼   ► But I had a couple of beta apps on my phone and those still worked. All the stuff that was once

00:30:07 ◼   ► on my phone is still on my phone. I mean, maybe Apple can do like a bit-for-bit restore of what's

00:30:14 ◼   ► on the phone, but everything that I can see that indicates that all I got was a screen is what

00:30:21 ◼   ► what happened. It appears to me that all I got was a screen.

00:30:23 ◼   ► No, that's very likely, because that is the way most of them are fixed. Most of them are

00:30:27 ◼   ► not swapped out. And that's how mine was fixed earlier this year for the same reason, before

00:30:31 ◼   ► you apparently caused like this global shortage of Genius Time by mentioning this on our show.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I did get, or we did get some reports in that some people went to the Genius Bar

00:30:44 ◼   ► and were specifically asked, "Oh, do you listen to the Accidental Tech podcast?" because we've

00:30:49 ◼   ► gotten a lot of you in here lately, which genuinely hand on heart made me extraordinarily

00:30:55 ◼   ► proud. I was very happy to hear that. But yeah, so I did get a replace screen. My understanding

00:30:59 ◼   ► is some people did get replaced phones. In fact, one person wrote in and said, "Well,

00:31:04 ◼   ► I went in right around closing time and they didn't want to deal with it, so they just

00:31:08 ◼   ► gave me a new phone," which I thought was pretty awesome.

00:31:10 ◼   ► That's a good strategy. Which is a pretty solid strategy. I wish I

00:31:13 ◼   ► had thought of that. Well, it didn't work for me. Like, I went

00:31:15 ◼   ► in in the evening when I went to get Mind Fixed earlier this year and they just told

00:31:17 ◼   ► me come back tomorrow. Oh wow. They kept it overnight and they said come back tomorrow.

00:31:23 ◼   ► So I said alright. And that's you know when I go in there I try to avoid having service

00:31:28 ◼   ► done on my current active phone and if I really do have to have it done I will just switch

00:31:33 ◼   ► to an old phone and wipe it because like I excited because you know the whole idea of

00:31:37 ◼   ► like oh unlike because they told me to you take off your passcode like does it they basically

00:31:42 ◼   ► you disable all of your security on your device. And I say no. I'm not doing that. That is

00:31:49 ◼   ► not an option. So I just wipe my devices whenever I have to get them serviced and it's inconvenient

00:31:55 ◼   ► but it's terrible that they make people do that and whatever the reason is they should

00:32:00 ◼   ► find a better way to do it that doesn't require that. They'll say oh well certain tools won't

00:32:04 ◼   ► run. Well then your Apple, make tools that run. You can do that. There's no reason to

00:32:11 ◼   ► get people to disable all their security while doing a hardware repair? That is complete

00:32:16 ◼   ► BS.

00:32:17 ◼   ► Well, I think there might be some legit reasons because the whole idea is that there's no

00:32:22 ◼   ► secret backdoor key to get at your data that Apple has, right? And you say, "Why don't

00:32:27 ◼   ► you just make something worth it?" You're essentially asking them to put a backdoor.

00:32:30 ◼   ► So at some point, there has to be some...

00:32:31 ◼   ► Well, no. I'm saying for a hardware repair, like if it's a screen replacement, why do

00:32:35 ◼   ► they need access to the software on the phone for a screen replacement?

00:32:38 ◼   ► They probably do want to do a full backup of your thing in case the guy slips with a

00:32:43 ◼   ► screwdriver or something and, you know, cracks a chip in the thing and they have to give

00:32:47 ◼   ► you a new phone and then you say, "But where's all my data?"

00:32:49 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:32:50 ◼   ► I don't know if that's true though because he specifically, the genius that I was speaking

00:32:54 ◼   ► to, specifically went into the settings on my phone, went to the iCloud backup, or I

00:33:02 ◼   ► believe it was iCloud backup screen, and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, you haven't backed

00:33:05 ◼   ► this up to iCloud in a while? Have you backed this up to your computer?" And I said, "Yes,"

00:33:10 ◼   ► last night. And at that point, he was completely satisfied. But I think there would have been

00:33:17 ◼   ► a little bit of a kerfuffle if I had said, "No, I haven't backed this up in ages. Why

00:33:22 ◼   ► do you ask?" He also didn't, if memory serves, he did not expressly ask me to remove my passcode,

00:33:29 ◼   ► but he was, well, the funny thing about it was he wasn't clear about why he wanted my

00:33:34 ◼   ► my Apple ID password and he handed me the phone to type it in.

00:33:37 ◼   ► It's not that he needed it himself, but as I was typing it in, I looked at what he was

00:33:42 ◼   ► doing and he was disabling Find My iPhone.

00:33:44 ◼   ► So basically he just wanted to make sure that I had a backup.

00:33:48 ◼   ► He wanted to make sure Find My iPhone was not on and then at that point he was satisfied.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Anyway, the tipster is frustrated that we're not listening to him.

00:33:56 ◼   ► That is impossible.

00:33:57 ◼   ► What he says is, was it impossible to ring out, he says, a repair.

00:34:04 ◼   ► if you don't have to find my iPhone on to do the tool use.

00:34:06 ◼   ► But I think what it all comes down to is that

00:34:08 ◼   ► they want to be able to use your phone,

00:34:10 ◼   ► even if they're not making a backup,

00:34:11 ◼   ► which makes sense because Apple doesn't usually care

00:34:13 ◼   ► about your data.

00:34:14 ◼   ► They want to, like when they're doing this screen repair,

00:34:17 ◼   ► I assume that when the screen repair is over,

00:34:19 ◼   ► they want to make sure everything works.

00:34:20 ◼   ► They want to be able to tap things on the screen.

00:34:23 ◼   ► And if your screen is locked and is gonna like erase itself

00:34:27 ◼   ► after 10, you know, like they have to be able to get

00:34:30 ◼   ► at your stuff somehow.

00:34:31 ◼   ► Otherwise like, can't they just do an iPhone,

00:34:33 ◼   ► hardware repair blind and just repair it and give it back to me and then

00:34:37 ◼   ► when I turn it on I'm sure that it will work and I'm sure that you know, I

00:34:40 ◼   ► like like I said

00:34:42 ◼   ► I don't I don't think it's possible for them to not ask you to undo some amount of security

00:34:47 ◼   ► To do repair any kind of repair even just a hardware repair just so they can verify that the hardware repair was successful

00:34:53 ◼   ► so

00:34:55 ◼   ► It makes some sense. Maybe the geniuses aren't telling people because it's very difficult to explain why they might need to do this

00:35:01 ◼   ► Whenever I've brought a Mac in for repair. I've always just wiped the entire thing

00:35:06 ◼   ► I put it on a single account username Apple password Apple on an entirely erased hard drive

00:35:11 ◼   ► I take out all my third-party RAM like I've you know back in the day if I brought something to the Apple Store

00:35:17 ◼   ► It's just so much easier to do that then you don't have to deal with anything

00:35:20 ◼   ► Like it's like sometimes I would put in a new hard drive like, you know

00:35:23 ◼   ► Most of my Mac was still at home because of the part I was repairing was not that

00:35:28 ◼   ► especially in the days where they were cranky about third-party RAM. Like, "Here you go!

00:35:31 ◼   ► Here's a box stock computer with no data on it and a single account called Apple Apple. Have at it."

00:35:35 ◼   ► And Marcos basically doing that with his phones. And it is annoying,

00:35:39 ◼   ► but it makes your repair experience smoother in exchange for you spending some time at home to

00:35:45 ◼   ► do stuff. Just make sure you do an actual encrypted local backup that will save all your passwords,

00:35:49 ◼   ► and then you see you don't have to wait for your apps to restore over the course of several hours

00:35:53 ◼   ► from the app store. Yep, I couldn't agree more. And one other quick piece of real-time follow-up

00:35:58 ◼   ► from me to me. It occurred to me that one of the reasons I knew that I did not get a

00:36:03 ◼   ► different phone was because my Touch ID was still working exactly as it was when I got

00:36:08 ◼   ► my phone back. And if the secure element is really secure, then that means I must have

00:36:13 ◼   ► gotten the same phone back just with a new screen.

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00:39:07 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to lynda.com for sponsoring our show once again.

00:39:11 ◼   ► So we should recap what we bought this past weekend.

00:39:14 ◼   ► I for one am in for two phones.

00:39:16 ◼   ► I bought or preordered Aaron a rose gold 64 gig iPhone 6s and I preordered myself a space

00:39:27 ◼   ► gray 64 gig iPhone 6s.

00:39:30 ◼   ► I am not part of the plus club because I actually know what I'm talking about.

00:39:34 ◼   ► Marco, did you eventually…

00:39:37 ◼   ► Did you eventually give in and join the Plus Club?

00:39:39 ◼   ► You know, one of the reasons I brought the 6 Plus to XOXO was that the pre-orders were

00:39:45 ◼   ► going to open up about in the middle of my trip, and so I figured I'd give it, because

00:39:48 ◼   ► I was on the fence, I'd give it one more time to see, like, you know, because I really

00:39:52 ◼   ► was undecided, because I really, as I said, I really have not been happy with the 6 battery

00:39:57 ◼   ► life, and I really do appreciate the larger screen during many of the things I do of the

00:40:02 ◼   ► 6 Plus.

00:40:03 ◼   ► So I was really on the fence.

00:40:05 ◼   ► So I moved all my stuff over the night before I left.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Moved all my stuff over and started using the phone

00:40:14 ◼   ► and literally within 20 minutes I was like,

00:40:18 ◼   ► "Nope, I'm not buying this one."

00:40:20 ◼   ► - Atta boy, atta boy.

00:40:22 ◼   ► So Mike was wrong?

00:40:24 ◼   ► - For me, yeah.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So there's a number of, the six plus, as I said,

00:40:27 ◼   ► there are a lot of benefits to it

00:40:29 ◼   ► and if you can use it and hold it comfortably,

00:40:33 ◼   ► then more power to you.

00:40:34 ◼   ► It is a great device for a lot of people.

00:40:36 ◼   ► What didn't do it for me is two things.

00:40:41 ◼   ► Number one, and it's not how big it feels in the hand.

00:40:43 ◼   ► I got used to that last time, it's fine.

00:40:45 ◼   ► What it is for me is the size in the pocket,

00:40:50 ◼   ► which is a big deal, and like,

00:40:52 ◼   ► I'm not a phone on the table kind of person.

00:40:56 ◼   ► I keep my phone in my pocket if I'm sitting down somewhere.

00:40:59 ◼   ► So if I need to use my phone or check my phone for something,

00:41:02 ◼   ► I'm taking it in and out of my pocket a lot, right?

00:41:05 ◼   ► So a phone that large, it's like taking a dinner tray

00:41:10 ◼   ► out of your pocket.

00:41:10 ◼   ► It is so big, it's very clumsy to insert or remove.

00:41:15 ◼   ► And secondly, another thing that's weird about the 6 Plus

00:41:19 ◼   ► is that a lot of apps that don't normally rotate on the 6

00:41:25 ◼   ► do rotate on the 6 Plus, and when they do rotate,

00:41:29 ◼   ► they go into this like weird, like miniature iPad,

00:41:33 ◼   ► not iPad mini, I guess, this nano iPad mode,

00:41:36 ◼   ► where they will use a split view the way iPads do,

00:41:38 ◼   ► and this is part of the whole universal thing,

00:41:40 ◼   ► I know how it works in the SDK side.

00:41:42 ◼   ► They, it considers it like a mini iPad,

00:41:45 ◼   ► and so you'll have like this cramped, weird,

00:41:48 ◼   ► tiny iPad-like split interface in a lot of apps

00:41:51 ◼   ► when you rotate them, and I found that it rotates

00:41:54 ◼   ► more easily. I don't know, maybe it's just happier to do it, maybe I just wasn't used

00:41:56 ◼   ► to it, but whenever I use the 6 Plus, it's constantly rotating when I didn't want it

00:42:01 ◼   ► to. And I try rotation lock, but it's like, you know, then you go to look at the photo

00:42:06 ◼   ► or watch a video and you turn it to the side and you gotta undo it, it's a pain. And I

00:42:10 ◼   ► found that even, even, you know, I'm used to the iPhone 6, and I don't have these problems

00:42:16 ◼   ► on the 6, and I haven't had these problems on any previous iPhone, including ones I wasn't

00:42:20 ◼   ► used to, like when I first got the 6, and it was, I'm going up a size, so I'm not used

00:42:24 ◼   ► to holding it. I didn't have these problems with that, so I know it isn't just that I'm

00:42:27 ◼   ► not used to the 6 Plus, it's just that the 6 Plus, like springboard rotates, lots of

00:42:31 ◼   ► things rotate, and I do it in a weird way, and so I just found it cumbersome in those

00:42:38 ◼   ► two big ways. And so those are important enough, especially the pocket size, those are important

00:42:45 ◼   ► enough that I couldn't do it. Now, in the future, you know, Apple likes to make things

00:42:49 ◼   ► thinner and smaller. So if they can like shave off more of the margins, I don't know. I mean,

00:42:55 ◼   ► it is heavy, but it doesn't really matter. If they can, if they somehow, like if we ever

00:42:59 ◼   ► get like the borderless iPhone that like that loses the chin on the top and bottom, you

00:43:03 ◼   ► know, somehow God knows how, but if they somehow do that, then I would consider it again. But

00:43:09 ◼   ► as of now, it's, it's just too big for me.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Just gonna wait for a flexible one. That's the thing that annoys me most about even the six I find. That you gotta unfold your phone?

00:43:18 ◼   ► Just so it curves like the six I find uncomfortable in my pants pockets because it is so like it stays

00:43:26 ◼   ► Flat it doesn't conform to the shape of my leg or anything it kind of stretches the pants out a little bit

00:43:30 ◼   ► So yeah flexible ones. It's probably in our lifetime

00:43:34 ◼   ► Hopefully we'll say dad John did your family buy anything?

00:43:38 ◼   ► Nope didn't buy anything. I didn't even know what people were all talking about staying up late at night in the beginning

00:43:44 ◼   ► When people first started tweeting about it. No, I'm not like and here's the reason not not just because I'm not getting

00:43:49 ◼   ► I mean, I was probably gonna get a success, but we're not in a hurry

00:43:53 ◼   ► She's actually I think she's got a couple more months before she can actually get it

00:43:56 ◼   ► I'm gonna go to the Apple store and look at it

00:43:58 ◼   ► but the final reason and the same reason I always sort of hold off on these things with a few rare exceptions is

00:44:05 ◼   ► You get the first one you get crescent moons like anything any weird

00:44:08 ◼   ► Manufacturing defect a weak tapped a tapped egg engine in your watch or whatever like you don't want the first cars off the assembly line

00:44:14 ◼   ► Right you want to everyone else to find all those problems

00:44:16 ◼   ► I have a six, but I didn't buy it on launch day

00:44:19 ◼   ► I bought it not too far after launch

00:44:21 ◼   ► But after everyone had gotten the first round of phones maybe the second round of phones and so

00:44:25 ◼   ► Mine was manufactured on a line where hopefully they had worked out more of the kinks and lo and behold I have no crescent

00:44:30 ◼   ► Moon and so far no other problems with my phone, so that is my strategy

00:44:34 ◼   ► but I'm not even getting a 6.

00:44:36 ◼   ► My wife is going to get a 6+, but not imminently.

00:44:39 ◼   ► - Well, 6S or 6+.

00:44:40 ◼   ► - Oh, sorry, 6S, yeah.

00:44:42 ◼   ► All these stupid names, they're killing me.

00:44:44 ◼   ► - I just wanna make sure we all agree that Mike was wrong.

00:44:46 ◼   ► - I'm not participating in this.

00:44:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:50 ◼   ► - That's 'cause you're a better man than I.

00:44:51 ◼   ► John, are you a secret 6+ user?

00:44:53 ◼   ► Is that why you just bring your flip phone to conferences?

00:44:55 ◼   ► - I am not a secret 6+ user.

00:44:58 ◼   ► - Oh, goodness.

00:45:00 ◼   ► One thing I should note is that

00:45:02 ◼   ► I had been kicking around the idea

00:45:03 ◼   ► of getting the new iPad Mini.

00:45:06 ◼   ► What is that called, iPad Mini 4, is that right?

00:45:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, the weird, oh, by the way, a quick follow-up.

00:45:10 ◼   ► I was wrong about the CPU in that.

00:45:13 ◼   ► I had said last episode that there is now no difference

00:45:16 ◼   ► between the iPad Air 2 and the Mini 4,

00:45:19 ◼   ► except for screen size.

00:45:21 ◼   ► That is wrong.

00:45:22 ◼   ► The Mini 4 has an up-clocked A8 processor,

00:45:26 ◼   ► so it is slightly faster than an iPhone 6 in benchmarks.

00:45:30 ◼   ► And that's a dual-core processor.

00:45:33 ◼   ► The Air 2 has the A8X, which is a triple core processor.

00:45:38 ◼   ► And so at various benchmarks and stuff

00:45:42 ◼   ► that we've seen so far, the iPad Mini 4

00:45:47 ◼   ► is faster than the Mini 3.

00:45:48 ◼   ► It is a nice chip, but it is very close

00:45:51 ◼   ► to the performance of an iPhone 6,

00:45:53 ◼   ► and not very close to the much higher performance

00:45:55 ◼   ► of the Air 2.

00:45:57 ◼   ► - That's correct.

00:45:58 ◼   ► And so I thought about replacing my beloved

00:46:02 ◼   ► OG Retina Pad Mini with a new iPad Mini 4.

00:46:07 ◼   ► And I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

00:46:10 ◼   ► And part of that is because I just spent $1,700

00:46:15 ◼   ► or whatever it was on two completely contract-free iPhones.

00:46:18 ◼   ► And I did that because I just,

00:46:20 ◼   ► that's the way I wanted to do it.

00:46:21 ◼   ► I'm not saying it was the best approach.

00:46:23 ◼   ► I'm not saying it was the most frugal.

00:46:26 ◼   ► It's just what I wanted to do.

00:46:27 ◼   ► Please don't email me.

00:46:28 ◼   ► So I've dropped all this money

00:46:30 ◼   ► and I probably shouldn't be spending any more, but the other reason I haven't done it is

00:46:35 ◼   ► I'm kind of bummed, not surprised, bummed that 3D Touch hasn't made it to the iPads yet and

00:46:42 ◼   ► I want to wait if I can. Now the last time I said this was about the watch and we saw how well that worked out,

00:46:48 ◼   ► but I want to wait if I can and see what 3D Touch is all about and see if I really like it and see if it's

00:46:54 ◼   ► see if it's like earth-shattering and it's just completely life-changing and if it is

00:47:00 ◼   ► then maybe I'll just hold out for hopefully next year when iPads get 3D

00:47:07 ◼   ► touch, although we'll see what ends up happening knowing me. I'll probably buy

00:47:11 ◼   ► it for myself as like a Christmas present or something like that. But for

00:47:15 ◼   ► now, for the next at least few weeks, I am holding off. Alright, any other thoughts

00:47:20 ◼   ► about Saturday morning purchases? Alright. Oh, the other thing I actually wanted to

00:47:25 ◼   ► ask you guys, did you hear anything about really really bad inventory issues like

00:47:29 ◼   ► there were last year with the iPhone 6 because I did not. It seemed like the inventory was

00:47:35 ◼   ► considerably better for this year than last and I don't know if that's because most people are not

00:47:39 ◼   ► on the S cycle. I don't know if it's because they were fine, you know, last year we finally got the

00:47:44 ◼   ► bigger phones that so many people have been clamoring for. But I did not hear any big

00:47:51 ◼   ► grumbling about, "Oh, I really wanted the blah but it was sold out by the time I got through."

00:47:58 ◼   ► Did you guys hear anything?

00:47:59 ◼   ► Sales numbers are bigger this year than last year, so it's not like, you know, what they're

00:48:02 ◼   ► saying so far, rumors, whatever, is that they're selling even more than they sold last year.

00:48:07 ◼   ► I think it's just that they had more lead time to build up inventory and wanted to have

00:48:12 ◼   ► more lead time because this is an S year and they're not making an entirely new phone in

00:48:15 ◼   ► an entirely new shape.

00:48:17 ◼   ► And, you know, so that's if they're going to have a year where they have more inventory,

00:48:22 ◼   ► it's going to be an S year, I would imagine, because they're kind of used to making phones

00:48:25 ◼   ► like this and they know what they're doing and the scheduling just worked out.

00:48:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I heard the same thing, although some people were saying that if you went to a particular

00:48:32 ◼   ► carrier's website, a lot of those had really crappy dates for like when you were going

00:48:35 ◼   ► to get your phone.

00:48:36 ◼   ► And that's just like, however, Apple is distributing the inventory they do make and, you know,

00:48:41 ◼   ► presumably they're keeping most of it for themselves.

00:48:44 ◼   ► So yeah, but that was, speaking of staying up late and ordering a phone, I did see tweets

00:48:49 ◼   ► from a bunch of people who were like, "I didn't stay up late.

00:48:51 ◼   ► I just woke up at my normal time in the morning and I got online and I ordered my phone."

00:48:54 ◼   ► and it was still in stock and it's gonna come right away

00:48:57 ◼   ► and you know, voila.

00:48:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, the morning after the launch,

00:49:03 ◼   ► later that morning, nine hours later or whatever,

00:49:05 ◼   ► I looked at all the configurations, I was curious

00:49:08 ◼   ► and the only one that was showing any delay

00:49:10 ◼   ► and it was only a small delay was the six plus

00:49:13 ◼   ► in some of the colors, including the new pink one.

00:49:16 ◼   ► The regular six, even the pink one was fine.

00:49:19 ◼   ► And actually, so I just looked right now,

00:49:21 ◼   ► if you go to Apple's site right now

00:49:23 ◼   ► and configure the common boring geek phone,

00:49:26 ◼   ► which is the 64 gig black 6S,

00:49:29 ◼   ► that is still saying deliver is 925,

00:49:32 ◼   ► which is the first day any of them are delivering.

00:49:34 ◼   ► So this is still delivering on day one.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Yeah, if you go right now--

00:49:36 ◼   ► - Wait, so I didn't have to wake up

00:49:37 ◼   ► at three in the damn morning?

00:49:39 ◼   ► - Nope.

00:49:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:40 ◼   ► - You didn't see all those tweets about it?

00:49:41 ◼   ► Oh, it's part of the fun, part of the fun of Wigam.

00:49:43 ◼   ► Although, as the tipster is saying in the chat room,

00:49:46 ◼   ► don't try to do that next year.

00:49:47 ◼   ► I don't know, you never know.

00:49:48 ◼   ► It all depends on how many could they make

00:49:50 ◼   ► before they went on sale,

00:49:51 ◼   ► That's a factor of scheduling and the timing of the,

00:49:55 ◼   ► whatever event they're gonna have

00:49:57 ◼   ► and everything else they have to announce,

00:49:58 ◼   ► and any glitches in manufacturing and blah, blah, blah.

00:50:02 ◼   ► Anyway, so this was a good year

00:50:04 ◼   ► for everyone to get their phones.

00:50:06 ◼   ► I just hope you don't all have whatever the new iteration,

00:50:09 ◼   ► whatever the new incarnation of the crescent moon is,

00:50:12 ◼   ► broken home button, weak tap to click, whatever.

00:50:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, we'll say the taptic engine

00:50:16 ◼   ► that may or may not work, et cetera, et cetera.

00:50:19 ◼   ► Alright, so speaking of new purchases, Marco, did you purchase anything recently that was

00:50:24 ◼   ► very, very, very cheap?

00:50:26 ◼   ► Uh, did I?

00:50:27 ◼   ► For one dollar?

00:50:28 ◼   ► Oh yeah, the Apple TV?

00:50:30 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Damn it, man, pay attention.

00:50:32 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, the developer lottery Apple TV.

00:50:35 ◼   ► Yes, I registered for that.

00:50:37 ◼   ► I won, I guess.

00:50:40 ◼   ► I don't think I'm allowed to say anything about it.

00:50:42 ◼   ► I agreed to something.

00:50:43 ◼   ► I just...

00:50:44 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:50:46 ◼   ► I agreed to not write about and talk about

00:50:49 ◼   ► like the actual device and what it's like,

00:50:52 ◼   ► but I don't remember if that agreement included

00:50:55 ◼   ► that I'm allowed to mention whether I have one or not.

00:50:58 ◼   ► But I mean, heck, as of right now, I don't have one.

00:51:01 ◼   ► So there we go.

00:51:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm disappointed in my Twitter timeline,

00:51:05 ◼   ► which I read exhaustively,

00:51:06 ◼   ► that I didn't know that this lottery was even a thing

00:51:09 ◼   ► until people were finding out whether they had won,

00:51:11 ◼   ► or not that I wouldn't have entered

00:51:12 ◼   ► 'cause I'm not developing an Apple TV app.

00:51:14 ◼   ► But how did I not even know about this?

00:51:15 ◼   ► Was this just not a big deal?

00:51:17 ◼   ► - The lottery?

00:51:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I heard about it.

00:51:19 ◼   ► - I heard about it when people were saying,

00:51:22 ◼   ► "Oh, I got one, I didn't get one."

00:51:23 ◼   ► I'm like, "What are they talking about?"

00:51:24 ◼   ► And I went to the website and looked at it.

00:51:26 ◼   ► - It was a reference.

00:51:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, anyway.

00:51:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:29 ◼   ► I think on my Twitter timeline,

00:51:30 ◼   ► people were talking about it obliquely

00:51:32 ◼   ► without anyone actually ever saying it

00:51:34 ◼   ► or linking to a story or writing a blog post about it

00:51:36 ◼   ► or doing anything like that.

00:51:38 ◼   ► So anyway, a bunch of people, who was it that had the...

00:51:41 ◼   ► I saw some number thrown out there

00:51:44 ◼   ► for how many they gave away.

00:51:45 ◼   ► Anyway, they gave away a bunch of Apple TVs.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I saw some people speculating that

00:51:49 ◼   ► these were originally going to be WWDC style,

00:51:52 ◼   ► look under your seat, free gifts for every attendees in WWDC.

00:51:55 ◼   ► But then of course, Apple TV wasn't launched to WWDC.

00:51:58 ◼   ► That would have been cool.

00:52:00 ◼   ► I would have been excited to get one.

00:52:01 ◼   ► I'm buying one anyway, so whatever.

00:52:03 ◼   ► It doesn't make a difference.

00:52:05 ◼   ► The tipster says the WWDC thing is true.

00:52:07 ◼   ► I think I saw someone posting pictures of the packaging

00:52:11 ◼   ► and it was all fancy packaging with like inspirational words

00:52:14 ◼   ► all of which fits with the rumor of these were meant to be gifts for developers at WAAC,

00:52:19 ◼   ► which is kind of out of character for Apple because I can't, since the Apology Mouse,

00:52:23 ◼   ► I haven't, don't think they've given away any significant hardware at any of their events.

00:52:27 ◼   ► That's totally a Google thing to do. And lots of other conferences, like I think when you

00:52:30 ◼   ► went to build one year, they gave everyone Xbox ones and they give them like surfaces

00:52:34 ◼   ► and you know, Android phones and all sorts of stuff like that. Everyone loves free hardware,

00:52:39 ◼   ► Apple. So get with the program. Maybe next year.

00:52:44 ◼   ► It's the kind of thing like giving a bunch of developers, I mean the rumor that we heard

00:52:49 ◼   ► is that there were tens of thousands of these given out. Given a bunch of developers early

00:52:54 ◼   ► access to hardware that they're very excited to develop for that has a really apparently,

00:52:58 ◼   ► I haven't looked at it yet, but everyone's saying it's a very easy SDK because it is

00:53:02 ◼   ► really very close to iOS. I mean it is iOS basically, you know, and just like with certain

00:53:06 ◼   ► frameworks not available and certain new frameworks, but they're very close to iOS. So giving a

00:53:13 ◼   ► whole bunch of developers who are excited about this early access and making them feel

00:53:16 ◼   ► special and letting them make their apps on a real device, that, you know, before it's

00:53:21 ◼   ► available to the public, that is really valuable to get the app story started. And, you know,

00:53:25 ◼   ► maybe they learned from the watch, you know, with the watch, the app story with the watch

00:53:29 ◼   ► early on and honestly still is pretty weak. And a lot of that was because of just limitations

00:53:35 ◼   ► of watchOS 1 and limitations of WatchKit, but a lot of that was also because the developers

00:53:40 ◼   ► for the most part didn't have early access. A few did, but most didn't have early access

00:53:44 ◼   ► to the hardware. So this I think is pretty cool. I think it's a smart move. It's the

00:53:51 ◼   ► kind of move that you're right, we wouldn't have expected this from the Apple of even

00:53:56 ◼   ► two or three years ago, but now it seems like Apple is making more of these Apple would

00:54:03 ◼   ► never do that kind of very pragmatic moves. And that's a good thing. I think everybody

00:54:08 ◼   ► wins here. I don't think there's any downside. They've already announced it. No one's going

00:54:11 ◼   ► to blow any secrets. They've already shown it off like crazy, so they don't have to worry

00:54:14 ◼   ► about that. I think this is great.

00:54:17 ◼   ► It's also the cheapest platform they sell. If they're going to give you a device, if

00:54:21 ◼   ► you have to pick one to give, even the watch is more expensive. This is what, $150 for

00:54:25 ◼   ► the small one?

00:54:26 ◼   ► Yep.

00:54:27 ◼   ► And there's no watch at $150, and the free phones don't count because of plans and subsidies

00:54:31 ◼   ► or whatever. So yeah, if you're gonna give something away, start with this one. And you

00:54:35 ◼   ► know, people, here's the thing about like, I think people were excited to make watch

00:54:41 ◼   ► apps and it seemed like for the TV, people were excited for other people to make TV apps.

00:54:47 ◼   ► Like I think there's, you know, I would like there to be apps for the TV, but it wasn't,

00:54:52 ◼   ► there's not a straight line from people who develop either watch Mac or iOS apps to say,

00:55:00 ◼   ► you could do it on a TV.

00:55:01 ◼   ► It's like, well, it's not a touch screen, it's not a mouse, it's not a keyboard.

00:55:04 ◼   ► If I don't have video content to show, I'm not quite sure what I'll make.

00:55:07 ◼   ► But if you give them free hardware, they're like, you know what, let me try thinking of

00:55:10 ◼   ► something.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Maybe I can come up with something, maybe I have some kind of idea.

00:55:13 ◼   ► So I think this is just the kind of platform where the developers might need a little boost

00:55:18 ◼   ► to get moving and get motivated about if you get free hardware, you're like, maybe I do

00:55:24 ◼   ► have a couple ideas.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Let me try this, let me try that.

00:55:27 ◼   ► You might surprise yourself, whereas if you don't have the free hardware, you'll probably

00:55:31 ◼   ► just convince yourself that none of your existing applications or skills or ideas for apps are

00:55:35 ◼   ► applicable to a big screen that you sit far away from and can't touch.

00:55:40 ◼   ► That's pretty wild.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:55:42 ◼   ► Speaking of Apple TV, we should note that last episode I had said, "Eh, I don't know.

00:55:47 ◼   ► Maybe I'll get it.

00:55:48 ◼   ► Maybe I won't."

00:55:50 ◼   ► And I had said that my beloved Plex, if that was available on the Apple TV, I would probably

00:55:58 ◼   ► insta-buy it.

00:55:59 ◼   ► And in the time between last episode and this episode, IT World got in contact with the

00:56:05 ◼   ► Plex, I think, CEO and has stated that, yes, they are developing a Plex client for the

00:56:11 ◼   ► Apple TV.

00:56:12 ◼   ► So that means I'll probably be buying one.

00:56:15 ◼   ► Why don't you tell us about clicks versus taps, Jon?

00:56:18 ◼   ► Yeah, you skipped that one. You noticed that, huh?

00:56:20 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:56:22 ◼   ► So, yeah, last week I looked at the, like, Apple's developer documentation that had these animations showing the new Apple TV remote and showing, like, a dot on it showing this is a click and this is a tap, and they both looked the same to me, and I didn't understand how you could tell a difference or what was going on there.

00:56:37 ◼   ► So someone asked on Apple's--oh, okay, is Apple's developers from NDA? I can't even say, can I?

00:56:44 ◼   ► Only if it's, like, the red section, right?

00:56:46 ◼   ► No, I pretty sure you can because I'm pretty sure I just hit it with yeah, I'm not logged in so you're good to go

00:56:52 ◼   ► So I want to know the difference between it's happening click was

00:56:55 ◼   ► In Apple's developer forums and URL that will put in the show note

00:56:59 ◼   ► Someone asked the very same question and someone with a little Apple logo underneath their name

00:57:03 ◼   ► said that

00:57:06 ◼   ► A click is when a user physically clicks down on the trackpad causing a select event

00:57:10 ◼   ► And then I guess a tap is just happening. So what it sounds to me like is that

00:57:14 ◼   ► The touchpad at the end of the remote moves in some way like physically moves

00:57:19 ◼   ► And makes a click as opposed to just tapping on the touch surface and again none of us have this device yet

00:57:25 ◼   ► And when Marco gets it he probably can't talk about it

00:57:28 ◼   ► No, so we'll all find out I will find out when mine ships. I'm ordering that day one basically

00:57:32 ◼   ► I'm gonna accept whatever the equivalent of the crescent moon is for the Apple TV hardware because it's cheap and whatever I don't care

00:57:39 ◼   ► But it seems like it's actually a physical button and I still don't quite understand how that will work based on the pictures of the remote

00:57:44 ◼   ► So what part of it moves?

00:57:46 ◼   ► How does it move down?

00:57:46 ◼   ► How far does it move?

00:57:47 ◼   ► Is there a hinge?

00:57:48 ◼   ► Does it just bend?

00:57:49 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:57:50 ◼   ► All these questions will be answered

00:57:51 ◼   ► when we get it into our little hands,

00:57:52 ◼   ► but it was interesting to see an actual response

00:57:55 ◼   ► from an Apple person about this.

00:57:56 ◼   ► - Excellent.

00:57:59 ◼   ► All right, let's see.

00:58:00 ◼   ► What else do we have to talk about?

00:58:01 ◼   ► We already talked about Plex.

00:58:04 ◼   ► Do you want to tell us about 24p on the Apple TV?

00:58:07 ◼   ► - This is, I think, from the exact same Apple person

00:58:09 ◼   ► in the Apple forums.

00:58:10 ◼   ► Someone asked a question, said,

00:58:12 ◼   ► will the new Apple TV actually output 24p video?

00:58:15 ◼   ► And so 24p is a lot of movies, old movies and new movies

00:58:20 ◼   ► are shot at 24 frames per second.

00:58:22 ◼   ► 24p is a video mode where it sends 24p

00:58:26 ◼   ► is for progressively scanned frames of video,

00:58:30 ◼   ► just one frame, another frame, another frame, another frame,

00:58:32 ◼   ► 24 of those every second.

00:58:34 ◼   ► That's how the movie was shot.

00:58:36 ◼   ► What you want to happen is if you are viewing a movie

00:58:39 ◼   ► at home you want 24 frames of video every second to be displayed in your television

00:58:46 ◼   ► in one frame, then the next frame, then the next frame, at exactly 24.

00:58:50 ◼   ► If you don't do that, it's not going to look quite right.

00:58:53 ◼   ► The most common situation is where your television, or the device that's outputting something,

00:58:58 ◼   ► for example your computer, is going at 60 hertz.

00:59:01 ◼   ► So it's got 60 frames per second.

00:59:02 ◼   ► The computer you're looking at right now, and I think all iOS devices except for maybe

00:59:05 ◼   ► the new the new iPad Pro which has the variable refresh rate but anyway 60

00:59:10 ◼   ► Hertz is common for computers unfortunately 24 does not go into 60

00:59:13 ◼   ► evenly so if you're going to display video content that originally has 24

00:59:18 ◼   ► different frames every second but you have to show 60 frames every second you

00:59:22 ◼   ► have to divide them up unevenly and when the camera pans quickly it can kind of

00:59:27 ◼   ► look weird they call it judder where you it can kind of look kind of herky-jerky

00:59:30 ◼   ► because you have to figure out how to you know you're gonna show the first

00:59:34 ◼   ► How many times are you gonna show the first frame and how many times you can show the second frame?

00:59:37 ◼   ► You're gonna end up showing some frames longer than other frames and when you have a smooth camera move

00:59:41 ◼   ► You can kind of see it as a jerkiness in the motion

00:59:43 ◼   ► So what you want is 24 frames all the way through this is the hope this video files are asking

00:59:47 ◼   ► So in practice in my setup

00:59:49 ◼   ► Anyway, the only way I can see video like that is if I buy a blu-ray my blu-ray player and my television all do 24 frames

00:59:55 ◼   ► So the blu-ray puts out 24 frames the television shows 24 frames again. I don't have an LCD. I have a plasma

01:00:01 ◼   ► It's all straight through, no image processing.

01:00:04 ◼   ► It looks correct, it looks right.

01:00:05 ◼   ► Don't have to worry about anything.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Apple TV, according to this answer from this Apple person,

01:00:12 ◼   ► does not do that.

01:00:13 ◼   ► It says, "No, the device output frame rate is fixed

01:00:14 ◼   ► "and content is automatically converted during playback

01:00:17 ◼   ► "to match the selected device output frame rate.

01:00:19 ◼   ► "Apps do not have the ability

01:00:20 ◼   ► "to affect the device output frame rate."

01:00:23 ◼   ► And it says, "If you have a scenario

01:00:24 ◼   ► "where you believe this would be required,

01:00:25 ◼   ► "please file a bug, blah, blah, blah."

01:00:27 ◼   ► This is focused on application development,

01:00:30 ◼   ► saying, "Oh, I'm making a video app and I want to show video.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Can I control the frame?" or whatever the answer is.

01:00:35 ◼   ► No.

01:00:35 ◼   ► Still unclear to me whether if you buy a movie on iTunes

01:00:40 ◼   ► and the movie is 24 frames a second,

01:00:43 ◼   ► does the Apple TV, is it also unable to send that natively

01:00:47 ◼   ► over HDMI to a device that is able to display 24p?

01:00:51 ◼   ► Some theories I've seen thrown around

01:00:55 ◼   ► amongst people who are disappointed in this decision

01:00:58 ◼   ► is that Apple doesn't want to incur the switching overhead

01:01:01 ◼   ► of like switching modes and HDMI apparently can be wonky

01:01:04 ◼   ► and take some time and blank your screen and stuff

01:01:06 ◼   ► and you don't wanna do that.

01:01:07 ◼   ► It's like a bad user experience

01:01:09 ◼   ► like everything else involving HDMI.

01:01:11 ◼   ► So they're just gonna lock it at like a computer,

01:01:14 ◼   ► like a tiny little computer,

01:01:15 ◼   ► like a tiny little Mac mini,

01:01:16 ◼   ► lock it at 60 frames and just up convert all video

01:01:19 ◼   ► on the device presumably with nice scaling

01:01:22 ◼   ► and trying to deal with all of these different problems

01:01:25 ◼   ► to hide judder and image processing.

01:01:26 ◼   ► Anyway, video files hate all of that.

01:01:28 ◼   ► So if you are a video file, like me, I guess,

01:01:33 ◼   ► you will probably want to continue buying the movies

01:01:37 ◼   ► that you really care about in a format

01:01:38 ◼   ► other than videos that appear on Apple TV.

01:01:41 ◼   ► - But if you are a video file, there's hope for you

01:01:46 ◼   ► because there's a good chance

01:01:48 ◼   ► that something will come to the Apple TV.

01:01:50 ◼   ► What would that be, Jon?

01:01:52 ◼   ► - Did we talk about it on this show a long time ago

01:01:54 ◼   ► about calibrating your television?

01:01:55 ◼   ► - A long time ago.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm heavily in favor of calibrating your television.

01:01:59 ◼   ► It's not a super complicated-- it can be super complicated,

01:02:02 ◼   ► but even just very basic calibration

01:02:04 ◼   ► can be done pretty easily.

01:02:05 ◼   ► But the question is, how?

01:02:06 ◼   ► How do I calibrate?

01:02:07 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:02:08 ◼   ► I just look at my television.

01:02:09 ◼   ► I can't tell what looks right.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Well, they sell iOS applications that

01:02:13 ◼   ► can help you calibrate your television.

01:02:15 ◼   ► There's also Blu-ray discs that help you calibrate them.

01:02:17 ◼   ► It used to be that every THX DVD came with the calibration

01:02:20 ◼   ► thing.

01:02:20 ◼   ► Maybe a TiVo comes with the calibration thing

01:02:22 ◼   ► built into the thing.

01:02:23 ◼   ► Lots of different ways to do this, but iOS apps are ideal,

01:02:26 ◼   ► because hey, it's an app and you can write a fancy app

01:02:29 ◼   ► and whoever owns, I guess it's Disney now,

01:02:33 ◼   ► whoever owns THX can make an app for it and stuff.

01:02:35 ◼   ► And lo and behold, there is a THX app for iOS

01:02:37 ◼   ► and you can use it, but you had to AirPlay to do it.

01:02:39 ◼   ► And I always worried about that

01:02:40 ◼   ► because what you're really calibrating

01:02:42 ◼   ► is how AirPlay video looks.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Like, well, maybe I calibrate my TV,

01:02:45 ◼   ► but then when I play things off my Blu-ray player

01:02:47 ◼   ► through a different input,

01:02:48 ◼   ► is that calibration still valid?

01:02:50 ◼   ► But with an Apple TV, the Apple TV,

01:02:54 ◼   ► if that's where you're watching your video,

01:02:55 ◼   ► The apps can be right on the Apple TV.

01:02:57 ◼   ► You're not air playing this weird

01:02:59 ◼   ► MPEG-4 compressed stream or whatever.

01:03:01 ◼   ► It can be right on the Apple TV.

01:03:03 ◼   ► So I'm excited about the prospect of native Apple TV.

01:03:07 ◼   ► I'm not the only person who's excited about calibration apps

01:03:11 ◼   ► for the Apple TV, but it's perfect.

01:03:12 ◼   ► Like it is perfect for the Apple TV because it's not,

01:03:16 ◼   ► it doesn't help you with your Blu-ray player,

01:03:17 ◼   ► but it does make you sure that what you're calibrating

01:03:19 ◼   ► is the exact thing that you're gonna watch movies on,

01:03:22 ◼   ► which is, if you have a bunch of iTunes movies

01:03:24 ◼   ► on your Apple TV.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Of course, the people who would be most into calibration

01:03:29 ◼   ► are also now crushed that it doesn't do 24p.

01:03:31 ◼   ► So I'm not sure if it's really the HDMI switching issue,

01:03:34 ◼   ► I'm not sure Apple ever fixed that

01:03:36 ◼   ► because I've seen that, you know,

01:03:38 ◼   ► when your TV screen goes blank or goes gray

01:03:41 ◼   ► or does this little glitchy fuzz, it's terrible.

01:03:43 ◼   ► I would never want the Apple TV to do that.

01:03:45 ◼   ► So I'm actually kind of in favor

01:03:47 ◼   ► of this cheap little $150 box, never doing that

01:03:49 ◼   ► and just, you know, putting out everything

01:03:51 ◼   ► at 60 frames per second and let the audio files

01:03:53 ◼   ► buy their blue-gray players and we'll get along fine.

01:03:57 ◼   ► Fair enough.

01:03:59 ◼   ► What iOS games support MFI controllers, John?

01:04:02 ◼   ► I don't know, but we've got a list and we'll put it in the show notes.

01:04:05 ◼   ► I think someone was saying that the list was only like 16 games, so that seems way small

01:04:09 ◼   ► to me.

01:04:10 ◼   ► But I'm sure there's a huge number of games that support it because it's been around since

01:04:13 ◼   ► iOS 7.

01:04:15 ◼   ► This was offered up as the potential base for games that could go to the Apple TV, but

01:04:21 ◼   ► not really true because these games probably also have like a touch control and they're

01:04:27 ◼   ► not going to have a touch equivalent.

01:04:29 ◼   ► That gets to our next follow-up item which is if you have a game that works with a controller

01:04:34 ◼   ► and also works with touch controls, can you just bring that right over to Apple TV?

01:04:39 ◼   ► Well the controller part you can bring right over because I don't think they've changed

01:04:41 ◼   ► anything involving the controllers there, but the touch part obviously you can't bring

01:04:45 ◼   ► over and you say well that's fine I will just bring over the game and say it requires a

01:04:49 ◼   ► controller to play.

01:04:50 ◼   ► And last week, I think I went to their website and looked this up, and I think in the show

01:04:54 ◼   ► it was like, "Oh, you know, Apple says that you can have games that require controllers."

01:04:58 ◼   ► So a bunch of people sent us links, and the great thing is, a bunch of people tweeted

01:05:01 ◼   ► to us and sent us email with exactly the same URL.

01:05:05 ◼   ► Some people saying, "Apple says that you can make Apple TV apps that require a controller."

01:05:10 ◼   ► And other people saying, "Apple says that you cannot make..."

01:05:13 ◼   ► And both point to the same exact URL.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Luckily, someone on Twitter actually screenshotted it, right?

01:05:18 ◼   ► Here's a screenshot, and again, you can fake screenshots,

01:05:20 ◼   ► but I'm pretty sure I read this on Apple's site.

01:05:22 ◼   ► At one point, this URL that we will put in the show notes,

01:05:26 ◼   ► pointed to a document that said, had a heading that said,

01:05:29 ◼   ► "You can require an extended game controller.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Unlike iOS apps, Apple TV apps can require the user

01:05:33 ◼   ► to own a full game controller

01:05:35 ◼   ► that supports the extended gamepad profile."

01:05:37 ◼   ► But requiring a full game controller is highly discouraged

01:05:40 ◼   ► when you restrict blah, blah, blah, right?

01:05:41 ◼   ► But bottom line is, you can require an extended controller.

01:05:44 ◼   ► But the current version of that page

01:05:46 ◼   ► says exactly the opposite.

01:05:48 ◼   ► your game must support the Apple TV remote.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Your game may not require the use of a controller.

01:05:52 ◼   ► So going by like the last one wins rule,

01:05:56 ◼   ► although I should probably click on this link now

01:05:57 ◼   ► to see what it actually says,

01:05:59 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that despite the waffling

01:06:02 ◼   ► in the first day or two after the Apple TV was announced,

01:06:04 ◼   ► right now it says your game may not require

01:06:07 ◼   ► the use of a controller.

01:06:08 ◼   ► And that spawned a whole bunch of stories on tech websites

01:06:10 ◼   ► about everyone going crazy about how

01:06:12 ◼   ► Apple doesn't understand gaming

01:06:13 ◼   ► and if you can't require a controller,

01:06:15 ◼   ► you're not gonna be able to play

01:06:16 ◼   ► insert my favorite genre of game here,

01:06:18 ◼   ► and all of that is true.

01:06:20 ◼   ► I think this rule is in keeping

01:06:23 ◼   ► with how Apple has positioned all of its devices

01:06:26 ◼   ► with respect to gaming.

01:06:27 ◼   ► It seems kind of dumb to me,

01:06:30 ◼   ► but on the other hand, like does it,

01:06:32 ◼   ► what, was it the case that the next call of duty

01:06:35 ◼   ► was gonna come for Apple TV?

01:06:37 ◼   ► If only Apple changes one rule.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Nope, it was never coming.

01:06:40 ◼   ► It was not, this is not the thing that's keeping it.

01:06:43 ◼   ► It's kind of silly if Apple,

01:06:45 ◼   ► It showed what it does feel said this shows Apple doesn't understand games or isn't serious about games

01:06:50 ◼   ► What it shows is how Apple views games for its platforms. It wants games to be on its platforms

01:06:55 ◼   ► It wants a certain kind of games the kind of games it wants

01:06:57 ◼   ► It wants you to be able to play without having to buy a controller. That's the product Apple is making

01:07:02 ◼   ► I don't think I I don't think it shows a

01:07:04 ◼   ► lack of understanding because I don't think anyone in Apple is under any illusions that they are going to

01:07:11 ◼   ► You know have the same type of games that consoles have and appeal to the same people who buy console games and love them

01:07:17 ◼   ► I think they're making a decision not to do that

01:07:20 ◼   ► And so this is in keeping with that but it drives people who love console games crazy because they feel like oh you're so close

01:07:25 ◼   ► If only you got serious about games and get serious by get serious

01:07:28 ◼   ► They mean made games that appeal to the millions of people who buy a PlayStation 4 and Xbox one and even the Wii U to some

01:07:34 ◼   ► Extent that's not what Apple's doing

01:07:36 ◼   ► Apple is not serious about game, but one of one of the ideas I have in my ideas file for

01:07:42 ◼   ► Hypercritical.co that I never update. I think it's one of the first ideas I put in there

01:07:48 ◼   ► I think I mentioned it before it's like Apple and games. He's just not that into you like Apple

01:07:53 ◼   ► Apple is doesn't feel the same way about games

01:07:56 ◼   ► That those of us who have game consoles and have played Mac and PC games feel about games like there

01:08:02 ◼   ► They have a different attitude towards games and their attitude is more common in

01:08:06 ◼   ► The world of people who are going to buy their products than our attitude is and that is disappointing to a lot of people

01:08:13 ◼   ► But that is just the case. So this rule assuming it hasn't swapped back by now is in keeping with that

01:08:18 ◼   ► I think it will cut down on the sophistication and interest of the type of games they're gonna get it might also cut down on

01:08:25 ◼   ► Shovelware and maybe that's why they're doing it. It's really interesting to see this phenomenon of Apple having public

01:08:31 ◼   ► documents that are not even behind a developer account password that one day say one thing and the next day say the entire opposite about

01:08:37 ◼   ► a fairly significant feature having to do with gaming on their newly launched product. It's a little out of character for them to

01:08:43 ◼   ► go back and forth like that.

01:08:46 ◼   ► Is it? Well, publicly, like, I mean, what can you think of? You're gonna get carbon 64,

01:08:52 ◼   ► a resolution independence. I'm thinking more like the various app review

01:08:58 ◼   ► controversies that usually crop up after a new ability is added to the SDK. So, you know,

01:09:05 ◼   ► they might decide, you know, like similar to how with iOS 8, there was this big kerfuffle

01:09:11 ◼   ► about what notification center widgets could and couldn't do or include, and then what

01:09:16 ◼   ► keyboards could and couldn't include. Could you include a button in the notification center

01:09:20 ◼   ► and all this crazy stuff?

01:09:21 ◼   ► Well, that's like rules lawyering, though, because someone will get rejected and they'll

01:09:25 ◼   ► say, "Well, according to the rules, it doesn't seem like it should've been rejected." Then

01:09:27 ◼   ► they amend the rules to make their decision right,

01:09:29 ◼   ► but then people complain and they reverse it.

01:09:30 ◼   ► Or like Launch Center Pro,

01:09:31 ◼   ► where like you couldn't launch an app

01:09:32 ◼   ► from the notification screen.

01:09:33 ◼   ► They changed that, but like two years later,

01:09:35 ◼   ► this was just like a black and white

01:09:37 ◼   ► before anyone had even started development.

01:09:39 ◼   ► Day one, one thing.

01:09:41 ◼   ► And it wasn't even like it was in response to outcry.

01:09:43 ◼   ► It's almost like they just forgot

01:09:44 ◼   ► to update the public facing docs, you know?

01:09:46 ◼   ► 'Cause no one even had probably,

01:09:49 ◼   ► it was literally day one and day two.

01:09:51 ◼   ► So that seems strange to me,

01:09:52 ◼   ► that they would just not have their acts together,

01:09:54 ◼   ► because I don't think anything happened

01:09:56 ◼   ► between day one and day two that made them reverse this policy. There was no outcry from

01:10:00 ◼   ► developers or whatever, it's just that they kind of like forgot to update the site or

01:10:05 ◼   ► maybe like the final decision maker made his decision one day late or her decision.

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01:13:12 ◼   ► All right, John, tell me about the Apple TV and WebKit.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Before I get to that, I just want to point out that Neil Cronin in the chat room reminds

01:13:20 ◼   ► me that the PS3 does actual 24p output.

01:13:24 ◼   ► By the way, the PS3 is my Blu-ray player, when I was thinking that's where I watch movies.

01:13:27 ◼   ► It's on the PS3.

01:13:28 ◼   ► It's a pretty good Blu-ray player, albeit kind of noisy.

01:13:31 ◼   ► But anyway, it is possible.

01:13:32 ◼   ► It's not like it's impossible for a computer-like device to do this, but I'm pretty sure the

01:13:36 ◼   ► PS3, when you launch Blu-ray, blanks the screen and switches HDMI modes and does all that

01:13:40 ◼   ► stuff that I said the Apple TV probably shouldn't.

01:13:42 ◼   ► So what may be appropriate for a Blu-ray player, even if that Blu-ray player is essentially

01:13:47 ◼   ► a minicomputer like the PS3, is maybe not appropriate for a $150 fanless black puck.

01:13:53 ◼   ► I'm not saying Apple shouldn't support it.

01:13:56 ◼   ► If they can figure out a way to do it, that's fine.

01:13:58 ◼   ► I'm just saying I kind of understand why it might not support it.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Same thing with 4K, by the way.

01:14:02 ◼   ► We didn't discuss this, but maybe we briefly mentioned it last time.

01:14:05 ◼   ► The new Apple TV is not 4K.

01:14:08 ◼   ► Everyone who asks me, you know, they keep asking me if they should get a television

01:14:11 ◼   ► or what.

01:14:12 ◼   ► They want to know what television to get and I tell them to get no television because now

01:14:14 ◼   ► is not a good time to buy a TV.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Because we're after the plasma times where four OLEDs have come into their own.

01:14:23 ◼   ► Most of the OLEDs I keep seeing are curved too.

01:14:24 ◼   ► I really hope that goes away.

01:14:26 ◼   ► I really hope that goes away like 3D kind of went away because I do not want a curved

01:14:29 ◼   ► TV.

01:14:30 ◼   ► Anyway, it's a bad time to buy because 4K is on the horizon.

01:14:36 ◼   ► You can buy a 4K TV now, but it would be kind of like buying one of the very early Plasmas.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Unless you get really lucky and got one of the top-end Kuro Elites things, probably not

01:14:47 ◼   ► the best time to buy a 4K television.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Apple doesn't support it, but a lot of people are saying, "Why doesn't the new Apple TV

01:14:53 ◼   ► support 4K?

01:14:54 ◼   ► It's got enough grunt to support it in theory."

01:14:57 ◼   ► I don't know if the HDMI spec that it conforms to supports 4K to the degree that it's needed,

01:15:03 ◼   ► but I kind of agree that it seems like what, it's an A8 in there right?

01:15:08 ◼   ► Maybe handle 4K, maybe, I don't know.

01:15:11 ◼   ► Anyway, bottom line it doesn't, that's not how this product is defined.

01:15:14 ◼   ► I wouldn't count on this product being updated in any way to support 4K in the future even

01:15:18 ◼   ► if the hardware is technically capable of it because that's just not kind of the thing

01:15:22 ◼   ► that Apple does.

01:15:23 ◼   ► I mean they made you buy a whole new product when they went from 720p to 1080p if that

01:15:26 ◼   ► tells you anything.

01:15:27 ◼   ► So don't buy an Apple TV if you're expecting it to magically have 4K support.

01:15:32 ◼   ► Resign yourself to spending under 150 bucks in a couple years when 4k finally matures

01:15:36 ◼   ► Alright, so tell us about webkit. This is a big kerfuffle started. I think it was started by Daniel Pascoe

01:15:44 ◼   ► He's from black pixel, right? Mm-hmm

01:15:46 ◼   ► Yeah

01:15:47 ◼   ► He wrote a thing called a world without Apple TV a world without web views

01:15:51 ◼   ► Limiting or maybe just reporting the fact that you are not allowed to bring up a web view in your Apple TV application

01:15:57 ◼   ► And everyone is upset about that

01:16:00 ◼   ► It's I don't think it's gonna be that big of a deal

01:16:04 ◼   ► I mean one question is like which I think we don't really know the answer yet is

01:16:09 ◼   ► How many of the apps that we have on our phone are going to be necessary to have in our TVs?

01:16:14 ◼   ► How many are we actually going to want to have in our TVs?

01:16:17 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a smaller and slightly different group

01:16:20 ◼   ► So a lot of the apps in your phone are just like for things that could have been websites

01:16:25 ◼   ► You know like your bank app and like some of the stuff like it just could have been a website

01:16:28 ◼   ► right? And so obviously web views are used very heavily in a lot of those things. And

01:16:32 ◼   ► so, you know, it's fine if a lot of those can't work. Now, that being said, there are

01:16:39 ◼   ► a lot of apps that use web views in smaller ways. Like I use web views in Overcast for

01:16:46 ◼   ► the rendering of the show notes. On the playback screen, the scroll view on the playback screen

01:16:50 ◼   ► that includes the artwork and the show notes below it, that is a web view. It is a giant

01:16:54 ◼   ► web view because that way I can render HTML in the notes and it works just fine and it's

01:17:00 ◼   ► great. So like you know stuff like that, that makes sense. Things like reading apps, you

01:17:05 ◼   ► know Instapaper, Instapaper is a big web view as well. I don't think people are going to

01:17:10 ◼   ► be reading on their TVs very often, who knows? I mean sure somebody might want to try but

01:17:14 ◼   ► that's not going to be a very common request I don't think so again that's fine too. I

01:17:19 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be annoying for some people,

01:17:22 ◼   ► but not nearly as big of a problem

01:17:25 ◼   ► as what most people expect.

01:17:26 ◼   ► Now the other thing is,

01:17:28 ◼   ► what about just web browsing on the TV?

01:17:31 ◼   ► Obviously, like you know,

01:17:31 ◼   ► not just using a web view in an app,

01:17:33 ◼   ► but actually just browsing two arbitrary pages.

01:17:36 ◼   ► Obviously, if you think about something like

01:17:38 ◼   ► a Twitter client on the Apple TV or a news reader,

01:17:41 ◼   ► then those are gonna be challenging to make compelling

01:17:44 ◼   ► because again, what are they gonna do?

01:17:47 ◼   ► tap like Twitter's full of links. So if you if you are browsing a Twitter client on the

01:17:52 ◼   ► TV and you can't tap any links, it's going to be kind of annoying. But again, it's like

01:17:57 ◼   ► are people really going to be browsing arbitrary web pages on TVs? Because one thing that people

01:18:02 ◼   ► don't often talk about, but becomes obvious if you've ever tried to do this, like plugging

01:18:06 ◼   ► a computer into your TV or anything, that TVs actually look terrible when you try to

01:18:11 ◼   ► view like text and web page and stuff like TVs are much lower resolution than you think,

01:18:18 ◼   ► weird contrast and color issues and limitations. They really are not good screens to be reading

01:18:25 ◼   ► text on. So I don't think this is that big of a problem really.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Well, the screen quality, if you have a good TV and you're the right distance from it,

01:18:33 ◼   ► it's not that bad. It's not as bad as it used to be in the old CRT standard Deaf days. And

01:18:37 ◼   ► If you have a 4K TV, even though Apple TV doesn't support it,

01:18:40 ◼   ► then I think those problems would be gone.

01:18:44 ◼   ► It's kind of disappointing to me that they don't support it,

01:18:46 ◼   ► mostly because every smartish thing that is not a computer

01:18:51 ◼   ► that is connected to a television in the past several years

01:18:55 ◼   ► has a web browser built in.

01:18:56 ◼   ► I think my PlayStation 4 does, my Wii U does,

01:18:59 ◼   ► I think my Wii does, like everything,

01:19:02 ◼   ► I don't know if my TiVo does,

01:19:03 ◼   ► but like everything feels compelled to have a browser

01:19:07 ◼   ► if it hooks up to a TV and has an internet connection

01:19:09 ◼   ► because hey, why not?

01:19:10 ◼   ► Why, I mean, the 3DS has a web browser for crying out loud

01:19:13 ◼   ► and every single one of those browsers

01:19:16 ◼   ► is the worst browser ever.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Like they're terrible to use.

01:19:19 ◼   ► You launch it once and you realize like maybe it uses

01:19:21 ◼   ► like an old version of the opera engine

01:19:23 ◼   ► and can't render anything.

01:19:24 ◼   ► It's really slow and they have these weird controls

01:19:27 ◼   ► about scrolling the page and moving the cursor

01:19:29 ◼   ► and oh, it's just terrible.

01:19:31 ◼   ► And so you just never launch it again, you know,

01:19:33 ◼   ► And the only reason I'm disappointed,

01:19:35 ◼   ► the main reason I'm disappointed is that

01:19:37 ◼   ► if an iOS powered device with an A8 in it,

01:19:41 ◼   ► powered by WebKit, was hooked up to my television

01:19:43 ◼   ► and they put a WebView on it,

01:19:45 ◼   ► and I had like a touch control

01:19:46 ◼   ► on the remote to scroll around,

01:19:47 ◼   ► it would actually be like nice and responsive and fast

01:19:51 ◼   ► and look good and render correctly.

01:19:53 ◼   ► And that would be a miracle

01:19:55 ◼   ► because I've never seen that on my television.

01:19:57 ◼   ► That said, I really have no urge

01:19:59 ◼   ► to browse my pages on my television.

01:20:01 ◼   ► And I think that's kind of,

01:20:02 ◼   ► I'm not gonna say it's a red herring

01:20:05 ◼   ► because we'll get to like what the motivation

01:20:07 ◼   ► to this might be.

01:20:07 ◼   ► But Marco, when you're talking about like the show notes,

01:20:11 ◼   ► that's coming from the web.

01:20:12 ◼   ► And of course, Instapaper content is coming from the web.

01:20:15 ◼   ► But I think there are a lot of,

01:20:17 ◼   ► perhaps a surprising number of iOS applications

01:20:21 ◼   ► that use a web view to render content

01:20:25 ◼   ► that does not come from the web.

01:20:26 ◼   ► Maybe it's just in the application bundle.

01:20:29 ◼   ► Maybe it's like if they want to just build a string on the fly.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Maybe it's someone who is like a web developer

01:20:33 ◼   ► and is more accustomed to doing that.

01:20:34 ◼   ► Maybe it is served from their own private web server

01:20:36 ◼   ► and parts of the UI or web views.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Like you're not giving them arbitrary web browsing.

01:20:40 ◼   ► You're not even perhaps giving them links.

01:20:42 ◼   ► You're just using it as a more flexible,

01:20:45 ◼   ► or maybe just the way that people are more comfortable

01:20:47 ◼   ► with way to lay out text and images in your UI,

01:20:50 ◼   ► which is probably not the appropriate thing to do,

01:20:53 ◼   ► but because WebKit is so fast

01:20:54 ◼   ► and because it's fairly efficient

01:20:56 ◼   ► and if you have simple needs,

01:20:57 ◼   ► It is a pretty easy way to do, you know,

01:21:01 ◼   ► to sneak a little bit of web development into your iOS app.

01:21:03 ◼   ► And the fact that that's not possible,

01:21:05 ◼   ► I think is something that Apple may have to end up

01:21:08 ◼   ► backsliding on because as long as I took,

01:21:12 ◼   ► why is this, why is this happening?

01:21:14 ◼   ► Is it happening because they couldn't get WebKit ready

01:21:16 ◼   ► in time for AppTV?

01:21:17 ◼   ► That seems unlikely because all the TVML stuff

01:21:19 ◼   ► surely uses WebKit or at least JavaScript core

01:21:22 ◼   ► or something like that in there.

01:21:23 ◼   ► And it's just an A8 and it's just an iOS variant.

01:21:26 ◼   ► getting WebKit to work is not rocket science, it could work.

01:21:29 ◼   ► Is it because they don't want anyone

01:21:31 ◼   ► to ever make a web browser app for the Apple TV?

01:21:35 ◼   ► Couldn't they do that with App Review?

01:21:36 ◼   ► Like slap you down if you're trying to make something

01:21:38 ◼   ► like a web browser?

01:21:40 ◼   ► Or the final reason, the most popular one seems to be

01:21:42 ◼   ► they don't want you using web technologies to make a UI,

01:21:44 ◼   ► they want you to make a native application.

01:21:47 ◼   ► That may be the case,

01:21:48 ◼   ► maybe that's getting back to what I talked about

01:21:50 ◼   ► in the last show about the AMC and the USA apps,

01:21:52 ◼   ► one of which was terrible

01:21:53 ◼   ► and one of which was only merely so-so.

01:21:56 ◼   ► and I can't remember which was which,

01:21:58 ◼   ► but a lot of those seem like big giant web views

01:22:00 ◼   ► with HTML5 video players.

01:22:02 ◼   ► Is that why they're cruddy,

01:22:03 ◼   ► or is it cruddy because the servers wouldn't respond,

01:22:05 ◼   ► or is it cruddy because they have buggy JavaScript detecting

01:22:07 ◼   ► whether they're seeing a commercial or not?

01:22:08 ◼   ► I don't know where the blame lies,

01:22:09 ◼   ► but it's conceivable that that app was cruddy

01:22:12 ◼   ► because it was done with web UI.

01:22:14 ◼   ► It was like a repackaging of their website

01:22:16 ◼   ► inside an iOS container,

01:22:17 ◼   ► and it was, you know, their website was crappy,

01:22:19 ◼   ► and so was their iOS app.

01:22:20 ◼   ► As usual, Apple is silent in this area.

01:22:24 ◼   ► I haven't heard anything, whispers from anybody about is this something they're going to amend?

01:22:29 ◼   ► Is it just we weren't quite ready in time?

01:22:30 ◼   ► Or is it an intentional thing where they're trying to send a message with a lack of WebKit

01:22:35 ◼   ► support to tell you you're not allowed to use web technologies anywhere on Apple TV?

01:22:40 ◼   ► I would love to know what the answer is, but right now I don't.

01:22:44 ◼   ► Tell us about your early musings on the iPad Pro.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Well, actually, before we do that, any other thoughts on the Apple TV?

01:22:50 ◼   ► Honestly, I'm kind of looking forward to it.

01:22:53 ◼   ► I mean, I—so one of the topics—I don't know how much I want to get into this now

01:22:56 ◼   ► because I haven't really thought too much about it yet, but one of the topics that we

01:23:00 ◼   ► kept hearing about—that I kept hearing about is how could—how could we in general and

01:23:07 ◼   ► usually me specifically, how can I be so pessimistic about all the stuff Apple announced? And first

01:23:14 ◼   ► of all, I don't think I was. I don't think—I don't think I was unreasonably pessimistic.

01:23:17 ◼   ► And I do think there's a lot of warranted pessimism or skepticism that I expressed about

01:23:24 ◼   ► the various stuff.

01:23:25 ◼   ► However, there are two things that I am more excited about this week than I was last week.

01:23:31 ◼   ► Number one is 3D touch because after watching more of the videos and after maybe seeing

01:23:36 ◼   ► some people using it, it does look, I have not used it, I have not felt it or touched

01:23:42 ◼   ► it myself. However, it does look like it's going to be really, really nice as a shortcut

01:23:49 ◼   ► mechanism to do a lot of quick things. I don't, you know, my concerns about its discoverability

01:23:55 ◼   ► and everything remain. However, I do think for power users like us, I think it will be

01:24:02 ◼   ► really nice to have. So we'll see, you know, we'll see how much it matters for regular

01:24:06 ◼   ► people. I think it's going to matter about as much as things like multitasking gestures

01:24:10 ◼   ► for regular people, but we'll see. And the other thing I am more excited about than last

01:24:14 ◼   ► week is the Apple TV. I do, however, you know, I said last week my main concern with the

01:24:20 ◼   ► Apple TV is not whether I would like it, it's whether people will buy it because it's a

01:24:25 ◼   ► $150 box entering a market of very, very cheap things that people think are good enough and

01:24:31 ◼   ► they're still going to keep selling the old Apple TV, so it's going to have to compete

01:24:34 ◼   ► with that, which is half the price. And I think it's going to be a tough sell for a

01:24:39 ◼   ► a while until the app story develops if it does. That being said, I'm looking forward

01:24:44 ◼   ► to it because first of all, it'll allow me to consolidate our universal remote situation

01:24:49 ◼   ► here, which will be nice. But also I'm looking forward to it because I like apps and I think

01:24:56 ◼   ► it'll be kind of interesting and kind of fun to play around with. So I am looking forward

01:25:00 ◼   ► to both of those things. Whether through the whole rest of the world is, we'll see what

01:25:06 ◼   ► happens there. But I'm looking forward to them.

01:25:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I didn't think like the Apple TV was the one thing I said

01:25:11 ◼   ► I'm definitely buying and I was enthusiastic about it as well. I was I know of course

01:25:15 ◼   ► I'm also enthusiastic about the iPad Pro, so I don't think you know

01:25:18 ◼   ► it's maybe it's the

01:25:21 ◼   ► the hypercritical influence but

01:25:23 ◼   ► Thus far most of us mostly on the show

01:25:27 ◼   ► We've found it more interesting to talk about the potential problems of products and think about what could go wrong

01:25:32 ◼   ► Then to just spend the entire time gushing about the things that we like

01:25:35 ◼   ► But there were things that we like and you know if we end the show and a bunch of us say that we're definitely getting

01:25:39 ◼   ► an Apple TV that's probably you know like okay

01:25:42 ◼   ► But anyway who cares if we're getting one like we talked about the products the good the bad and the ugly

01:25:46 ◼   ► I do agree that Marco lately has been in a downswing in terms of being

01:25:51 ◼   ► Cranky about things that Apple has is falling down about but it's not like he's just inarticulately

01:25:57 ◼   ► He's written thousands of words about it like it's not it's not a vague notion that he just kind of has and just you know

01:26:03 ◼   ► has got an axe to grind. He's got specific concerns that he's expressed in various ways.

01:26:07 ◼   ► And so I think that's just his opinion, man.

01:26:11 ◼   ► Well, and I think also there's a lot that I've been positive about. Now, the idea that

01:26:15 ◼   ► I have to be equally positive and negative is, of course, totally wrong.

01:26:18 ◼   ► It's fair and balanced, Margo.

01:26:20 ◼   ► Yeah, right. Let's get that out of the way. That is total BS. However, there's a lot of

01:26:26 ◼   ► Apple stuff and Apple products that have launched in the last couple of years that I really

01:26:32 ◼   ► enjoy that I use constantly. I've been very vocal about how much I really enjoy the Apple

01:26:37 ◼   ► Watch. Even though I think the app situation is terrible, which it is, I think the rest

01:26:42 ◼   ► of the product is great. And I keep saying that. Nobody hears it, but I keep saying it.

01:26:46 ◼   ► I also really enjoy the rediscovery of MDNS Responder and the eviction of DiscoveryD from

01:26:54 ◼   ► our operating system because as I've written about and said on this podcast, the reliability

01:27:00 ◼   ► of the things I do with my home network on an OS X has skyrocketed. The reliability of

01:27:07 ◼   ► my Apple TV and the things I do on there and AirPlay and things like that, those have all

01:27:12 ◼   ► skyrocketed after MDNS Responder came back.

01:27:15 ◼   ► Discovery D is the new Coke because like, no, but maybe you came into the Mac too late,

01:27:20 ◼   ► but there was no love for MDNS Responder in the many years when it was introduced. It

01:27:25 ◼   ► was always a source of problems. You always had to kill it. People had problems with it,

01:27:29 ◼   ► The only reason it gets any love is because they brought out New Coke and nobody liked

01:27:32 ◼   ► New Coke and they brought back NDNS.

01:27:34 ◼   ► Oh, it's NDNS Responder Classic.

01:27:36 ◼   ► Everybody loves it.

01:27:37 ◼   ► Right.

01:27:38 ◼   ► Anyway, so yeah, that like, my world has been changed at home.

01:27:43 ◼   ► Like the last year with Yosemite was really rough until that change was made a few months

01:27:47 ◼   ► ago.

01:27:48 ◼   ► And as I wrote about on my site when it happened, that has made a massive difference for me

01:27:52 ◼   ► in the reliability of this stuff.

01:27:54 ◼   ► However, there's still tons of things that need work.

01:27:58 ◼   ► For instance, I launched an app today, which we might get to, and it was delayed by an

01:28:04 ◼   ► App Store bug for five and a half hours after it was approved for sale because the CDN just

01:28:10 ◼   ► didn't work.

01:28:11 ◼   ► And that's happened to a lot of developers today during the release of iOS 9.

01:28:14 ◼   ► It happened to tons of people.

01:28:18 ◼   ► There's still issues with the services.

01:28:20 ◼   ► There are still issues with some of the applications.

01:28:22 ◼   ► There are still issues with some of the hardware.

01:28:25 ◼   ► There's still delays of things like Skylake, which granted is not Apple's fault, but it

01:28:29 ◼   ► still affects Apple's products.

01:28:31 ◼   ► There's been significant stagnation in the laptop lineup recently because we're so late

01:28:36 ◼   ► with the CPU.

01:28:37 ◼   ► So, you know, there's stuff that is not perfect and there is stuff like the iPhone 6 battery

01:28:43 ◼   ► that I think is not the decision I would have made and not the decision that fits me.

01:28:48 ◼   ► When I say things like that the product line is getting, is gaining more narrowly focused

01:28:54 ◼   ► products and that the question of who is this for, the answer to that keeps getting narrower

01:28:59 ◼   ► for a lot of these newer products. I don't think that's unfair or necessarily negative,

01:29:05 ◼   ► but that is certainly an observation of the product line. But again, it's like I still

01:29:08 ◼   ► use the iMac, which is this general purpose large desktop and the 15 inch MacBook Pro,

01:29:13 ◼   ► which is the most general purpose laptop I think they have. Like for, you know, get a

01:29:17 ◼   ► laptop that will serve anything you need to serve. That's the one. Okay. You know, I'm

01:29:21 ◼   ► I'm talking to you on this through a Mac,

01:29:23 ◼   ► through livestreaming through another Mac

01:29:26 ◼   ► with a room full of Apple gear.

01:29:27 ◼   ► I mean, it's like, you know,

01:29:28 ◼   ► I still like a lot of Apple stuff.

01:29:30 ◼   ► However, I don't think it's unfair or unwarranted

01:29:35 ◼   ► to point out the areas in which

01:29:38 ◼   ► they're kind of missing the mark for me or for everybody.

01:29:40 ◼   ► And as they keep serving more and more and more areas,

01:29:44 ◼   ► 'cause what they have today with the product line

01:29:47 ◼   ► is way more broad in just like sheer number

01:29:51 ◼   ► products and services and apps that they have right now is so much more broad than it used

01:29:55 ◼   ► to be. And the fact is, they're not doing all of them well. Apple has never been able

01:30:02 ◼   ► to juggle too many things at once particularly well, and the number of things they can juggle

01:30:06 ◼   ► at once well over time has gone up, but so has the number of things they try to juggle

01:30:11 ◼   ► all at once. And so there's still always areas that can use improvement. And we on the outside

01:30:18 ◼   ► that can use improvement. And we on the outside, people like us who don't work for them, and

01:30:24 ◼   ► they're like, because people who work for them can't really say anything, because they

01:30:28 ◼   ► can get in trouble. But people like us on the outside who don't work for them and can

01:30:33 ◼   ► say whatever we want, can effect positive change within Apple and within its products

01:30:40 ◼   ► by ranting about them when it's warranted, by giving them real constructive valid criticism

01:30:47 ◼   ► when it's warranted, that actually affects positive change. Every time I complain about

01:30:52 ◼   ► something about Apple, that is like a fair complaint, I hear from people on the inside

01:30:57 ◼   ► of the company, either right then or near that, or either right then or soon after,

01:31:03 ◼   ► I hear from people that whatever I said or wrote was circulated in some group and that

01:31:09 ◼   ► like helped that team argue for their point or make a change or whatever. And I hear this

01:31:14 ◼   ► from everyone I know who writes about Apple or who talked about Apple, the people inside

01:31:18 ◼   ► listen. Our complaints are ammunition for internal fights and that complaining works

01:31:24 ◼   ► in a way that filing bug after bug might not for me. Complaining works. And again, you

01:31:31 ◼   ► know, there's no reason to stop complaining just out of, you know, trying to be nice if

01:31:36 ◼   ► things really are broken or could use improvement.

01:31:38 ◼   ► David Schanzer Yeah, the thing that struck me about the feedback

01:31:42 ◼   ► we got and we did get several people writing in saying, "Oh my god, you're a bunch of curmudgeons."

01:31:45 ◼   ► You know, maybe there's some truth to that, but I don't know.

01:31:48 ◼   ► I don't think it does anyone any good for us to just be parrots that are saying,

01:31:53 ◼   ► "Oh, this is the best. Apple's the best. Apple is flawless. Nothing Apple does is wrong."

01:31:56 ◼   ► And that would not be a particularly enjoyable show for us to make or for most people to listen to. So I

01:32:03 ◼   ► feel like I speak for all of us and saying genuinely, I mean if we came across

01:32:08 ◼   ► grumpy last episode that that wasn't our intention, but

01:32:11 ◼   ► You know, we're gonna call it like we see it and if we see things as being broken then damn it

01:32:17 ◼   ► We're gonna say that it's broken and that's just how we feel and you know, if it doesn't work for

01:32:22 ◼   ► if it doesn't work for you, then I'm sorry, but

01:32:26 ◼   ► You know TJ Loma is saying in the chat. It was a three-hour negative a thon. Maybe we listen maybe

01:32:32 ◼   ► What I said did not feel it was like a three-hour complaining festival

01:32:38 ◼   ► I didn't get a chance to listen back to the episode, but man, it certainly didn't

01:32:43 ◼   ► feel that way when I was recording it, and I'm pretty sure that you guys didn't think

01:32:48 ◼   ► it went that way either.

01:32:49 ◼   ► And if it came across that way, then, you know, we're sorry, but this is how we feel.

01:32:52 ◼   ► And, you know, if you're looking for someone to just parrot about how amazing Apple is,

01:32:56 ◼   ► you're going to have to look elsewhere.

01:32:58 ◼   ► The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that criticism, for lack of a better word, is good.

01:33:03 ◼   ► Criticism is right.

01:33:04 ◼   ► Criticism works.

01:33:06 ◼   ► Criticism clarifies.

01:33:07 ◼   ► through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

01:33:10 ◼   ► Is this a reference?

01:33:11 ◼   ► Yes, it is.

01:33:12 ◼   ► I can tell that was your quote voice, but I couldn't figure out where it was from.

01:33:16 ◼   ► That was my quote voice, and I was, there's a double quote voice, because I was quoting

01:33:20 ◼   ► a thing in which I was quoting a thing.

01:33:22 ◼   ► Oh, God.

01:33:23 ◼   ► We'll put it in the show notes.

01:33:25 ◼   ► Speaking of quoting yourself, why don't you tell us about what you said about the iPad

01:33:29 ◼   ► Pro?

01:33:30 ◼   ► Yeah, speaking of quoting myself, I was just curious about this because we talked about

01:33:34 ◼   ► the iPad Pro last week and I wanted an iPad Pro for a long time and I was like, "How long?

01:33:40 ◼   ► When did I first start talking about the iPad Pro?"

01:33:43 ◼   ► I thought it was on a podcast and so I deployed the _DavidSmith who has magical abilities

01:33:50 ◼   ► to find out when people said things in the past, which we should all be frightened of

01:33:53 ◼   ► because I don't understand where he gets these powers.

01:33:56 ◼   ► But if you've lost your car keys, contact _DavidSmith.

01:33:59 ◼   ► He will tell you where they are.

01:34:00 ◼   ► It's a very convenient service.

01:34:02 ◼   ► long as you've spoken about it on a podcast. Right. Well, we don't know. We don't know.

01:34:06 ◼   ► That's not just, you know, you're speculating by the limits of his power. Anyway, I searched

01:34:11 ◼   ► my own podcast for like a good 90 seconds before I went to the Slack channel and asked

01:34:18 ◼   ► to look it up for me. I feel kind of bad. Anyway, but I did search for it and I couldn't

01:34:21 ◼   ► find it. He found it immediately. It was a Hypercritical episode 58 in March of 2012,

01:34:27 ◼   ► 31 minutes in, you'll hear my first public musings about, "You know what Apple should

01:34:33 ◼   ► do?

01:34:34 ◼   ► They should make a bigger iPad and call it the iPad Pro," and blah, blah, blah.

01:34:36 ◼   ► So if you're interested in that or just want to hear a really old hypercritical where I

01:34:40 ◼   ► sound really weird and talk about things in the past, I will put that link in the show.

01:34:45 ◼   ► It's too.

01:34:46 ◼   ► Okay.

01:34:47 ◼   ► Speaking of the iPad Pro, Dr. Wave, Michael B. Johnson from Pixar, tweeted at some point

01:34:52 ◼   ► or another – or I believe it was a tweet.

01:34:54 ◼   ► He said, my understanding is that the iPad Pro recognizes

01:34:57 ◼   ► the stylus data from the Apple Pencil flowing in at 240 Hertz,

01:35:03 ◼   ► fingers at 120 Hertz.

01:35:06 ◼   ► And the Air 2, in general, will do 120 Hertz.

01:35:10 ◼   ► And all other iPads and iOS devices do 60 Hertz.

01:35:14 ◼   ► My understanding is that his understanding is accurate,

01:35:17 ◼   ► that the iPad Pro is 240 for the Apple Pencil, 120 for

01:35:21 ◼   ► everything else.

01:35:22 ◼   ► And the Air 2 is 120, everything else is 60.

01:35:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that, combined with the variable refresh rate,

01:35:28 ◼   ► is really interesting, you know,

01:35:30 ◼   ► the technical length that Apple either has to go

01:35:32 ◼   ► or is willing to go or both to do a good job with like,

01:35:35 ◼   ► you know, why don't you just add a stylus to the iPad?

01:35:37 ◼   ► Well, it's not that simple, you know,

01:35:39 ◼   ► you have to do like,

01:35:40 ◼   ► figure out how you can do pressure sensitivity.

01:35:42 ◼   ► And also, you know, 60 hertz, again,

01:35:45 ◼   ► very common for computery things,

01:35:47 ◼   ► any kind of computery thing,

01:35:48 ◼   ► whether it's hooked up to a TV or hooked up to a monitor,

01:35:50 ◼   ► it's been a standard for many years

01:35:51 ◼   ► ever since CRTs went away, it's just 60 Hertz, but that's not good enough for

01:35:58 ◼   ► it to feel nice when you're drawing on it. I'm not sure why the Air 2 is 120,

01:36:02 ◼   ► maybe they just cranked it up because they could, or I don't know what the

01:36:07 ◼   ► technique behind that is, but 240 for the thing that supports the pencil makes

01:36:12 ◼   ► perfect sense. And again, during the videos that they showed people

01:36:17 ◼   ► drawing on the thing, I could see the lag. Like the lag, once you know what to look

01:36:21 ◼   ► for.

01:36:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I could too.

01:36:23 ◼   ► The lag is there.

01:36:24 ◼   ► But if you've ever used a Wacom or Wacom tablet, depending on how you pronounce it, or Cintiq,

01:36:30 ◼   ► which is their thing where you draw on a screen that they provide to you, there's plenty of

01:36:34 ◼   ► lag there too.

01:36:35 ◼   ► We'll link for the umpteenth time that video from the Microsoft Research thing that shows

01:36:40 ◼   ► they have an experimental display that shows different amounts of lag where they can just

01:36:43 ◼   ► turn the dial and crank it up and down.

01:36:45 ◼   ► And boy, the difference between current technology and the best thing that we can do right now

01:36:52 ◼   ► with unlimited money is dramatic.

01:36:55 ◼   ► And as soon as you see the good one, you're like, "Oh, well, I want that."

01:36:58 ◼   ► You know, it's like, "Well, tough luck.

01:37:00 ◼   ► You can't have that."

01:37:01 ◼   ► But, you know, we'll get there eventually.

01:37:03 ◼   ► And the only way we'll get there is by every new iteration of these type of things that

01:37:06 ◼   ► you can scroll on with a pen, make it better, make it faster.

01:37:09 ◼   ► So what I'm interested in, and I haven't seen, I think I have a link in that we can put in

01:37:13 ◼   ► the show notes from somebody who wrote a blog post comparing the apple pencil to the top

01:37:18 ◼   ► of the line tablet that artists use now and had nice things to say about the apple tablet

01:37:24 ◼   ► but I guess we have to wait until these things are in people's hands and see like hands-on

01:37:28 ◼   ► tests or whatever but I do know that every every tablet I've ever seen anyone use to

01:37:33 ◼   ► draw with or have drawn with myself has had lag that I can see.

01:37:37 ◼   ► Apple's thing also has lag that I can see.

01:37:40 ◼   ► I can't eyeball it, I can't say which is worse

01:37:42 ◼   ► or which is better.

01:37:43 ◼   ► One point that was made, is this in the show notes somewhere?

01:37:46 ◼   ► I thought we had a link to it, anyway.

01:37:47 ◼   ► One point that was made in this article

01:37:49 ◼   ► about comparing the Cintiq to the iPad Pro

01:37:54 ◼   ► was that the Cintiq, it makes it seem like

01:37:58 ◼   ► where the image is and where your stylus touches the screen

01:38:02 ◼   ► are distant from each other, like there's an air gap

01:38:05 ◼   ► or like a, you know, sort of like a large gap

01:38:08 ◼   ► so that depending on what angle you're holding it,

01:38:09 ◼   ► Parallax makes it seem like the ink or whatever is not coming out of the tip of your pen

01:38:13 ◼   ► It's coming out of some point removed from the tip of your pen

01:38:16 ◼   ► and in the iPad

01:38:19 ◼   ► That seems less because that the whole thing is thinner and the glass is thinner and is laminated to the glass and all the other stuff

01:38:25 ◼   ► and that makes sense to me tech wise because

01:38:28 ◼   ► Apple is surely better able to manufacture the fanciest

01:38:32 ◼   ► Sort of screen with the smallest gap and no air gap and great lamination and everything

01:38:38 ◼   ► Whereas a company that makes tablets for artists necessarily has much smaller volumes and not as not doesn't have billions of dollars in the bank

01:38:46 ◼   ► And all the other stuff so there is the potential for the iPad Pro to be a really good tool for artists

01:38:51 ◼   ► That is potentially as good as are better than all existing dedicated tools

01:38:56 ◼   ► But I think we just have to wait and see for the people who actually buy this and use it to do real work and they'll

01:39:01 ◼   ► report back

01:39:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean this is another by the way another one of those things

01:39:05 ◼   ► I was very positive about was the iPad Pro for pen input, the pencil itself, and the

01:39:11 ◼   ► general notion of writing things on a screen with a pen. I like all those things. They

01:39:17 ◼   ► just aren't things that I need to do. But I'm very positive on all of those things for

01:39:23 ◼   ► people who use pens or who like to write or who like to take notes or who like to draw.

01:39:28 ◼   ► That all sounds awesome for those people. However, I'm a computer geek. In the old school

01:39:34 ◼   ► sense of computer geekdom where I mostly just need a keyboard and a mouse and a big screen

01:39:38 ◼   ► and a big powerful computer. So it's not really for me. However, you know, good on them for

01:39:43 ◼   ► the people who actually want to use it.

01:39:45 ◼   ► You know, if this ever does, it'll go all the way down to an iPhone 6 size device, you

01:39:49 ◼   ► would get a little stylist and scratch things out on it. If only because someone would bring

01:39:54 ◼   ► out Draw Something again and people would forget that it previously existed and be like,

01:39:57 ◼   ► "Wow, try this great new game. You draw pictures to each other. It's really fun."

01:39:59 ◼   ► Sure, yeah, I mean look if this was available even for you know even when as soon as it comes to an iPad

01:40:07 ◼   ► Size that I want to own I'll probably buy one

01:40:11 ◼   ► I'll probably buy whatever you know if like if next year's iPad air supports the pencil

01:40:16 ◼   ► Then I'll probably get one of those I just or you know if there's some really compelling reason for me to get the iPad Pro

01:40:23 ◼   ► I will get it like I talked before like I'd love to make a podcast editor

01:40:28 ◼   ► And, you know, if I'm going to do that, making it on the iPad Pro is certainly worth investigating.

01:40:33 ◼   ► However, I'm not doing that right now. I'm doing other things and I don't plan to do

01:40:38 ◼   ► that anytime soon. You know, by the time I get to that, it'll probably be next year.

01:40:41 ◼   ► I'll get the second one. I also am worried with the current one that, you know, I think

01:40:47 ◼   ► I mentioned this in last week's show, that forced touch on the iPhone is going to be

01:40:52 ◼   ► so interesting and so compelling as a shortcut mechanism that it's going to be weird getting

01:40:57 ◼   ► used to that on the phone and then not having it yet on the iPads. So I would rather wait

01:41:01 ◼   ► if I'm going to spend over a thousand dollars on a brand new really high end iPad that I

01:41:07 ◼   ► don't really need right now, I would rather wait until next year to see if maybe it gets

01:41:12 ◼   ► forced touch. But we'll see.

01:41:14 ◼   ► I think you mean 3D touch, but I'm with you.

01:41:16 ◼   ► Sorry, yeah, you're right. Even Federighi screwed it up, come on.

01:41:19 ◼   ► Yeah, so true. Alright, do you think anyone's going to make any money on apps on the iPad

01:41:25 ◼   ► Pro because the friend of the show that we just mentioned, underscore David Smith, tweeted

01:41:29 ◼   ► a link to a company, I don't recall their name, but the people who make Sketch, which

01:41:36 ◼   ► apparently is a very popular app.

01:41:38 ◼   ► They are basically saying, "No freaking way we're going to touch the iPad Pro because

01:41:42 ◼   ► we can't make any money on it."

01:41:43 ◼   ► Yeah, that post kind of struck me the wrong way because we all know there are problems

01:41:48 ◼   ► with the App Store and there are problems with the companies that have difficulty finding

01:41:52 ◼   ► way to make money and the price pressure like we've talked about these things a million times

01:41:55 ◼   ► but i think one of the least convincing um it's at least convincing because this app is sketch

01:42:01 ◼   ► and not photoshop i guess but one of the least convincing things you can do is say this entirely

01:42:05 ◼   ► new thing like an apple tablet with with a pencil which has not existed before we are writing off

01:42:11 ◼   ► because we assume it will be exactly like all of the other markets and they're probably right like

01:42:15 ◼   ► i'm not saying they're wrong or anything like that it's just there are many reasons why it

01:42:20 ◼   ► make sense for them not to make the app. Maybe they have Mac developers, not iOS developers.

01:42:26 ◼   ► You can sell Mac apps for more, like all the things we've talked about or whatever, but

01:42:29 ◼   ► the idea that it is inconceivable and they're just entirely sure, I guess what they're saying

01:42:34 ◼   ► is that we can't risk it. We think that there's not a sustainable market for iPad per application,

01:42:40 ◼   ► and we think that because we've judged there not to be a sustainable market for these applications

01:42:44 ◼   ► on the previous iPads and on the phones and blah blah blah, so on and so forth. But it

01:42:48 ◼   ► Reid's kind of like, you know,

01:42:51 ◼   ► "We understand it's a chicken egg situation, you go first."

01:42:54 ◼   ► And you go first with the hardware and we say,

01:42:55 ◼   ► "Yeah, no, I don't think so."

01:42:57 ◼   ► Like someone is gonna go first.

01:42:59 ◼   ► Someone's gonna try to make a go of it here.

01:43:01 ◼   ► Maybe they're the suckers

01:43:02 ◼   ► and they're gonna all go out of business

01:43:03 ◼   ► and not find out that they can't make money on the platform.

01:43:05 ◼   ► But it's not particularly convincing to me

01:43:07 ◼   ► for one company to say,

01:43:09 ◼   ► "Because there are a bunch of good reasons

01:43:12 ◼   ► for us not to make an app for the iPad Pro,

01:43:15 ◼   ► it is a condemnation of the entire concept

01:43:17 ◼   ► of there being a supportable pro application space.

01:43:19 ◼   ► I think the iPad Pro has the best chance,

01:43:22 ◼   ► maybe Apple TV tied with that,

01:43:24 ◼   ► the best chance to break through the thing

01:43:27 ◼   ► that has caused the iOS pricing and business model

01:43:31 ◼   ► to get pulled down so much.

01:43:33 ◼   ► Because you can sell, well, there's two things here.

01:43:35 ◼   ► One, you can sell more expensive things to professionals.

01:43:39 ◼   ► Right, that's what you're always looking for.

01:43:40 ◼   ► It's why if someone needs a Mac app to do their job

01:43:42 ◼   ► and they make a lot of money at their job,

01:43:44 ◼   ► they will give you $100 for this app

01:43:46 ◼   ► that they use at their job.

01:43:47 ◼   ► they will just do it.

01:43:48 ◼   ► Even just for musicians, people sell music applications.

01:43:50 ◼   ► Even if these people don't make money doing music,

01:43:52 ◼   ► they love music, they'll give you 50 bucks for a thing

01:43:55 ◼   ► that lets them do something with their band.

01:43:57 ◼   ► And you know, like that will definitely happen.

01:44:00 ◼   ► Much less so than trying to sell somebody

01:44:02 ◼   ► like a little game or you know,

01:44:04 ◼   ► something more trivial or general interest, right?

01:44:07 ◼   ► So pro apps are good.

01:44:08 ◼   ► And the second thing, this is a theory I've had for a while.

01:44:12 ◼   ► I think it's still kind of true.

01:44:15 ◼   ► the bigger the screen, the more money you can charge

01:44:17 ◼   ► because bigger equals more money.

01:44:20 ◼   ► I know that makes no sense logically,

01:44:22 ◼   ► but in my experience, I've seen,

01:44:24 ◼   ► it seems to me that people can be more convinced to,

01:44:29 ◼   ► maybe it's just a coincidence,

01:44:30 ◼   ► maybe it's not actually causation,

01:44:32 ◼   ► it's just like, it just so happens

01:44:34 ◼   ► that computers have bigger screens

01:44:35 ◼   ► and people use computers for their jobs and blah, blah, blah.

01:44:37 ◼   ► But like what I was getting at was I'm thinking,

01:44:39 ◼   ► can you sell an Apple TV app for more money

01:44:42 ◼   ► because it's bigger?

01:44:44 ◼   ► Setting aside things like video content,

01:44:47 ◼   ► where that's just, you know, you're not,

01:44:48 ◼   ► it's not that the screen is big,

01:44:50 ◼   ► it's that you're buying video.

01:44:50 ◼   ► Like I'm buying access to HBO,

01:44:52 ◼   ► I'm buying access to the Major League Baseball or whatever.

01:44:55 ◼   ► Setting that aside, can you charge more money

01:44:57 ◼   ► because the screen is bigger?

01:44:59 ◼   ► Or is it because apps that run on a bigger screen

01:45:01 ◼   ► can have more features

01:45:02 ◼   ► and people are gonna pay for those features?

01:45:04 ◼   ► I don't know what the connection is.

01:45:05 ◼   ► But anyway, I am not ready to entirely write off

01:45:09 ◼   ► both the iPad Pro and the Apple TV

01:45:11 ◼   ► as platforms where it is just as difficult

01:45:15 ◼   ► to sell an application for more than a couple bucks

01:45:18 ◼   ► as it is on iOS.

01:45:20 ◼   ► - Well, the big thing is going to be volume.

01:45:24 ◼   ► It's will the iPad Pro sell in enough volume

01:45:28 ◼   ► that it'll be worth developing high quality apps for it?

01:45:32 ◼   ► Because if it doesn't achieve really high volumes,

01:45:36 ◼   ► and high volumes for an iPad are still very low volumes

01:45:40 ◼   ► for an iPhone, but let's just say like,

01:45:43 ◼   ► if it doesn't sell a lot, if a lot of these things

01:45:46 ◼   ► don't sell by iPad standards, it's gonna be very hard

01:45:49 ◼   ► for most companies to justify developing for it,

01:45:51 ◼   ► just on that basis alone, before you even get to price.

01:45:54 ◼   ► - Don't you think volume works against it though?

01:45:56 ◼   ► Because the high volumes is part of the reason

01:45:57 ◼   ► why there's such downward price pressure,

01:45:59 ◼   ► because if you sell to almost everybody,

01:46:01 ◼   ► most people don't wanna pay for software, period.

01:46:03 ◼   ► But if you're selling a pro app, you don't need,

01:46:05 ◼   ► there are very few pros.

01:46:08 ◼   ► How many people who are going to buy a $50 music app are there out there?

01:46:13 ◼   ► For drawing applications in iPad Pro, it's still chicken and egg.

01:46:16 ◼   ► Someone has to make the software.

01:46:17 ◼   ► Someone has to go first.

01:46:18 ◼   ► Apple has made the hardware and they hope someone makes the software.

01:46:20 ◼   ► But how many professional artists are there in the world?

01:46:24 ◼   ► How many people who use a Stiles to do their daily work drawing and designing things are

01:46:29 ◼   ► there in the world?

01:46:30 ◼   ► Not a lot.

01:46:31 ◼   ► I think volume...

01:46:34 ◼   ► You can't sell 10,000 of them.

01:46:36 ◼   ► I think you probably even need more than Microsoft Surface numbers, but you don't need iPhone size numbers

01:46:41 ◼   ► So I don't know what the the middle is there

01:46:43 ◼   ► Like if it just sells in merely normal iPad volumes, is that too few?

01:46:47 ◼   ► But if it sells in merely normal iPad volumes, couldn't they sell?

01:46:51 ◼   ► You know one to every designer the entire world and still have tons left over

01:46:55 ◼   ► it's it's a

01:46:58 ◼   ► It's conceivable. I think that it could sell

01:47:00 ◼   ► I mean just look at the Mac the Mac sells in vanishingly small volumes compared to the iPhone

01:47:04 ◼   ► and yet it is a sustainable platform for some companies to sell programs that people use

01:47:10 ◼   ► to do their jobs on their Macs and they pay astronomical amounts of money for them by

01:47:16 ◼   ► the standards of iOS applications. Like 20 whole dollars for an application. It's unheard

01:47:21 ◼   ► of.

01:47:22 ◼   ► Well, that's true. However, Macs also have the advantage of an installed base already

01:47:27 ◼   ► where they don't sell as many units as before.

01:47:31 ◼   ► However, if you wanted to,

01:47:33 ◼   ► suppose Apple made a new Mac

01:47:35 ◼   ► with some interesting new screen shape or something,

01:47:41 ◼   ► and you made an app that worked well on that,

01:47:44 ◼   ► well there's also the millions and millions of other Macs

01:47:47 ◼   ► that already exist in the world

01:47:48 ◼   ► that can probably also run that app.

01:47:50 ◼   ► So the sales volumes itself are a little bit

01:47:52 ◼   ► of a bad example here.

01:47:56 ◼   ► Also, I would argue that there's a lot more people who, quote, "get their work done on

01:48:03 ◼   ► a Mac than an iPad in these kind of like content creation or professional kinds of fields."

01:48:08 ◼   ► I don't know that offhand, however, that sounds very likely, if I can take a guess.

01:48:13 ◼   ► Now, you know, on the iPad Pro, to make a really good iPad Pro app, you need to really

01:48:19 ◼   ► use that expansive screen space very well, and also it would be nice if it worked well

01:48:24 ◼   ► with the pencil.

01:48:25 ◼   ► I think that's going to be a huge differentiator because, again, I like the pencil idea.

01:48:30 ◼   ► I think that sounds very good and very compelling and very interesting.

01:48:33 ◼   ► However, again, there's going to be very few of these things in the market for a while.

01:48:37 ◼   ► So it's going to be hard just numbers-wise.

01:48:39 ◼   ► Now, assume they have healthy install base.

01:48:43 ◼   ► Assume it actually becomes reasonably possible to sell a decent number of $30 or whatever

01:48:49 ◼   ► apps on this thing.

01:48:52 ◼   ► Then the question is, can you actually build and sustain a business with the app stores

01:48:58 ◼   ► pricing and trial and upgrade situation?

01:49:01 ◼   ► And that is another question.

01:49:04 ◼   ► We've had iPads for five years now, five and a half years now, and I know a lot of companies

01:49:12 ◼   ► have struggled to bring that kind of business to the iPad.

01:49:15 ◼   ► It's hard enough on the iPhone where you have tons of volume to make up for it.

01:49:18 ◼   ► It's even harder on the iPad.

01:49:20 ◼   ► So how, what do you think, like I don't think the iPad Pro

01:49:24 ◼   ► alone can solve that problem.

01:49:29 ◼   ► It can solve the first problem of,

01:49:30 ◼   ► "Hey, let's get a bunch of people buying these things,

01:49:32 ◼   ► "you know, 'cause they're really good."

01:49:33 ◼   ► But how do you solve the second problem there,

01:49:36 ◼   ► you know, if you're Apple?

01:49:37 ◼   ► Like how do you solve the App Store pricing problem?

01:49:39 ◼   ► Or do you not think that's enough of a problem to matter?

01:49:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know what the right answer is.

01:49:46 ◼   ► I do know that a friend of the show, Ben Thompson,

01:49:48 ◼   ► a really good piece about the Apple platforms becoming platforms rather than products. And

01:49:55 ◼   ► I didn't get a chance to read it thoroughly, so now I'm assigning myself some homework

01:50:00 ◼   ► to do so, but we'll put a link in the chat for both myself and for the listeners. I think

01:50:05 ◼   ► that, from what I did get to read of it, he made some really, really great points, and

01:50:12 ◼   ► that Apple seems to think that they can solve these problems by just creating new products,

01:50:16 ◼   ► And that's not the case, just like you said, Marco.

01:50:18 ◼   ► Creating a new product doesn't just fix all of these problems.

01:50:21 ◼   ► Yeah, the reason the iPad Pro is interesting is because it's finally a new product with

01:50:26 ◼   ► different features that changes a little bit of the equation.

01:50:29 ◼   ► If you're going to sell a $100 app for designers for the iPad without a stylus, good luck.

01:50:35 ◼   ► Am I supposed to just swipe this with my finger or a big smushy ball of rubber or a hot dog

01:50:40 ◼   ► or something?

01:50:41 ◼   ► It's a non-starter.

01:50:43 ◼   ► So suddenly things are more possible.

01:50:46 ◼   ► post from the sketch designers or sketch developers is so definitive it's like

01:50:50 ◼   ► "Apps on iOS sell for unsustainably low prices due to the lack of

01:50:55 ◼   ► trials." Like they're just flat-out conclusion. They sell for

01:50:59 ◼   ► unsustainable... the prices are unsustainably low and the reason is no

01:51:02 ◼   ► trials. And we all agree that like you know based on the model that we know

01:51:06 ◼   ► worked on the Mac, upgrade pricing, trials for very expensive applications, you can

01:51:11 ◼   ► figure out if you like them, so on and so forth, that is a system that has already