ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► All right, we shouldn't be on this tangent. We got a lot of things to talk about.

00:00:04 ◼   ► We can say that about almost every topic almost every week.

00:00:07 ◼   ► Yeah, we can mean it this time.

00:00:08 ◼   ► All right, so this week was our first real introduction to Apple Park and the Steve Jobs

00:00:15 ◼   ► Theater at Apple Park, which we've all seen many, many, many pictures, most of which are beautiful

00:00:21 ◼   ► of the Steve Jobs Theater and of Apple Park. I don't have the link handy, but Dan, is it from

00:00:28 ◼   ► or Frommer? I always get it wrong.

00:00:29 ◼   ► - I think it's Frommer.

00:00:31 ◼   ► - There you go. Well, Dan, we apologize.

00:00:32 ◼   ► But anyway, we will try to find wherever the link was

00:00:36 ◼   ► that flew by earlier today, wherein he had like

00:00:39 ◼   ► a little photo essay of his day at the Steve Jobs Theater,

00:00:42 ◼   ► and the pictures are beautiful and really well done,

00:00:45 ◼   ► and so you can check that out.

00:00:47 ◼   ► But it was a neat event.

00:00:49 ◼   ► It was interesting that we knew a lot.

00:00:53 ◼   ► We didn't know some things, and that's cool too.

00:00:56 ◼   ► And I guess, do we want to start with just a kind of opening remark or do we want to

00:01:02 ◼   ► just dive right in?

00:01:03 ◼   ► - We're going chronological like we always do.

00:01:05 ◼   ► What's the first thing that it did to Steve Jobs tribute?

00:01:07 ◼   ► - To Steve Jobs tribute, yeah.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - Oh my word.

00:01:09 ◼   ► - I thought, honestly, I thought it was excellent.

00:01:11 ◼   ► You know, they had to say something.

00:01:15 ◼   ► If they're dedicating the theater to him and naming it after him, they had to say something

00:01:19 ◼   ► and I think they did a remarkably good job of it.

00:01:23 ◼   ► Tim delivered it really well.

00:01:24 ◼   ► It was very well designed and written.

00:01:26 ◼   ► It was really great to hear a recording of Steve

00:01:29 ◼   ► saying some stuff.

00:01:31 ◼   ► And honestly, I did not recognize that quote.

00:01:33 ◼   ► And I've heard it from other podcasters,

00:01:35 ◼   ► didn't seem to know where it came from either.

00:01:37 ◼   ► That was new to me.

00:01:38 ◼   ► - I remember it.

00:01:38 ◼   ► I would have picked a different quote.

00:01:40 ◼   ► He said so many things.

00:01:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:42 ◼   ► That's the one I picked.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Anyway, no, I remember him.

00:01:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I remember him.

00:01:46 ◼   ► - I know we're supposed to be talking about

00:01:48 ◼   ► how much we love Steve Jobs and miss him,

00:01:49 ◼   ► but that particular quote reminds me

00:01:53 ◼   ► of some of the worst aspects of Steve Jobs,

00:01:58 ◼   ► because it was about like how some people express their,

00:02:02 ◼   ► you know, their love for humanity

00:02:04 ◼   ► by making great things for people.

00:02:06 ◼   ► Tinged with a little bit like,

00:02:08 ◼   ► I may not do nice things, but I make really cool hardware.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Like as a, he said that before of like, you know,

00:02:16 ◼   ► when people complained to him about, you know,

00:02:18 ◼   ► doing things that are not nice or not giving to charity

00:02:21 ◼   ► or whatever, he's like, my time is,

00:02:22 ◼   ► I would do more good for the world by making an awesome phone, which is possibly true,

00:02:27 ◼   ► right?

00:02:28 ◼   ► But also a nice way for him to excuse himself from doing nice things.

00:02:33 ◼   ► And I was reminded of that aspect by that quote.

00:02:35 ◼   ► So I was like, please pick a different one.

00:02:36 ◼   ► He's got so many good quotes.

00:02:37 ◼   ► Don't pick the one that has a tiny touch of sort of rationalization baked right into it.

00:02:46 ◼   ► But it's clear that most important thing was not the quote or the pictures or anything

00:02:50 ◼   ► like that.

00:02:51 ◼   ► It's clear that Tim still does miss him and had real emotion.

00:02:55 ◼   ► You know, the reason that segment took longer than you would think is he paused a lot

00:02:58 ◼   ► between talking and I don't think that's an act. I think everybody really does miss Steve Jobs,

00:03:03 ◼   ► including Tim, probably every time he gets up on that stage and thinks,

00:03:07 ◼   ► "Boy, Steve would do this better than me," which is true.

00:03:09 ◼   ► Oh, poor Tim.

00:03:11 ◼   ► He does fine, but I'm just saying, just like he said, Steve loved days like today,

00:03:15 ◼   ► and he would have loved to announce this new phone and everything, right? And just,

00:03:19 ◼   ► that's the worst time to think about it, you know, like that's what he lived for.

00:03:22 ◼   ► All the hard work and all the yelling at people and driving everyone to be their best and everything

00:03:27 ◼   ► to get to go up there and to announce it, he loved that. And so them having to talk about like,

00:03:33 ◼   ► here we are in this theater, you know, that he would have loved the theater, he would have

00:03:36 ◼   ► loved to announce these things, but instead it's us and we'll do the best we can.

00:03:39 ◼   ► - I think if you were not holding back tears during that segment, you're not wired up right.

00:03:45 ◼   ► it was incredibly moving and very very well done and very fitting to what they were doing

00:03:50 ◼   ► and you know to the time and everything. I do agree with what Jason Snell said on Upgrade

00:03:55 ◼   ► this week which he was saying this is probably the last we're going to hear about Steve

00:03:58 ◼   ► from Ample for a long time and I think that's probably right. It has, he's been gone for

00:04:02 ◼   ► a very long time. This was a very fitting time to pay him tribute in this way but I

00:04:09 ◼   ► wouldn't expect them to make a regular habit of it even when doing events in this theater.

00:04:14 ◼   ► But it was a really, really nice thing.

00:04:16 ◼   ► And I'm glad they did it,

00:04:17 ◼   ► and I'm glad they did it the way they did it.

00:04:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think the important point,

00:04:21 ◼   ► well, first of all,

00:04:22 ◼   ► there never is an occasion to talk about Steve Jobs.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Like, they can make one every single time they do anything.

00:04:26 ◼   ► They could, but they don't, right, to their credit.

00:04:28 ◼   ► And this, the intro part that I thought was fitting

00:04:33 ◼   ► was the explanation of, you know,

00:04:36 ◼   ► not explaining why they're talking about him now,

00:04:38 ◼   ► 'cause obviously the theater is dedicated to him,

00:04:39 ◼   ► he's got his name on it, like that's the time to do it,

00:04:41 ◼   ► right, but also that enough time has passed

00:04:44 ◼   ► that Apple and we all in the audience

00:04:48 ◼   ► can have some more perspective on it.

00:04:50 ◼   ► So it's not as fresh as it was.

00:04:51 ◼   ► I don't remember, you had a good tweet, Marco.

00:04:53 ◼   ► I think what Tim said on stage was that we can,

00:04:56 ◼   ► what was it, look back, not with sadness,

00:04:59 ◼   ► but with whatever, what did he say?

00:05:01 ◼   ► Do you remember the quote?

00:05:02 ◼   ► - Like celebration or something like that?

00:05:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, right, and you tweeted, I'm still sad.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I am still sad.

00:05:08 ◼   ► - We are still sad, but the idea is that

00:05:11 ◼   ► a lot of time has passed and now hopefully

00:05:12 ◼   ► we all have some more perspective

00:05:14 ◼   ► This is a good time to be able to at least try to shift a little bit from just like it being completely raw and just

00:05:19 ◼   ► Being just you know forgetting and then remembering. Oh, that's right. He's gone

00:05:23 ◼   ► He's never gonna do that thing that he does again to shifting towards hopefully

00:05:27 ◼   ► Fonder memories of just like it happened long enough ago that it is not

00:05:31 ◼   ► You know that it's scabbed over a little bit and then we can look back

00:05:35 ◼   ► You know and think that you know that uh, I don't know like I think that was a it's not like putting a cap on it

00:05:43 ◼   ► to say we're never going to talk or think about him again,

00:05:45 ◼   ► but to say this is a milestone, right?

00:05:48 ◼   ► Especially since the whole Apple Park thing

00:05:49 ◼   ► was one of the last big,

00:05:51 ◼   ► as they noted, one of the last big projects

00:05:52 ◼   ► that he undertook that he didn't get to ever see completed,

00:05:56 ◼   ► but he definitely knew, you know,

00:05:58 ◼   ► had a vision for how it was supposed to go, right?

00:06:00 ◼   ► So it was, you know, it was,

00:06:02 ◼   ► as with most things, Apple, it was very taste,

00:06:03 ◼   ► well, I'm not going to say as of most things, Apple,

00:06:05 ◼   ► as we expect from Apple,

00:06:07 ◼   ► but as occasionally they don't live up to,

00:06:10 ◼   ► it was very tasteful.

00:06:10 ◼   ► Like if you think of the intro videos

00:06:12 ◼   ► they've had it other times. Sometimes they're a little bit goofy. Sometimes they miss the

00:06:15 ◼   ► mark. Sometimes they hit. The bad ones I think we just tend to forget. But if we search our

00:06:20 ◼   ► memories you can remember a lot of opening videos that are like, "Mmm, I roll, whatever,

00:06:25 ◼   ► get us the announcements." This was tastefully done and it was nice.

00:06:29 ◼   ► But it was the right amount of time. It was the right timing and the right amount of time.

00:06:34 ◼   ► It was long enough that it was taken seriously. I don't remember hearing it, but I saw widely

00:06:40 ◼   ► reported that they told the people in the audience like, "Hey, shut off your laptops

00:06:44 ◼   ► and pay attention for a minute, would you please?" I don't know how they phrased it,

00:06:47 ◼   ► but that was basically the message. And I watched bits and pieces of the keynote again

00:06:53 ◼   ► over the last 24 hours. And if you look, there were a couple of people with phones or laptops

00:06:58 ◼   ► open, but generally speaking, that theater was completely dark for that entire segment.

00:07:03 ◼   ► And I thought that that was tastefully done. And I'm glad that the press actually listened

00:07:08 ◼   ► because, you know, if we remember the "turn off your Wi-Fi" moment from years ago...

00:07:13 ◼   ► Jobs would have yelled at them and said, "He said close your laptops! It's gonna ruin the effect of the

00:07:17 ◼   ► 'Just welcome to the Steve Jobs Theater' on a black background! Don't you understand?

00:07:20 ◼   ► Look at the black levels on this projector! It's a completely dark room and white text and the background totally blends in,

00:07:27 ◼   ► but we can't see it because you have your stupid laptops open!"

00:07:29 ◼   ► Anyway, so after that, so they moved on to the Apple Park intro video a little bit.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Apple Park looks like an amazing building

00:07:37 ◼   ► and an amazing campus and an amazing place to be.

00:07:41 ◼   ► However, there's kind of this reality of it,

00:07:44 ◼   ► which is like them showing off,

00:07:45 ◼   ► like here's this amazing building we've made

00:07:49 ◼   ► for ourselves that you're never going to see.

00:07:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, look at us, look at how smart we are.

00:07:53 ◼   ► That's a visitor center for you.

00:07:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's a visitor center

00:07:56 ◼   ► that's not really the main building

00:07:58 ◼   ► or that's not really what you wanna see.

00:07:59 ◼   ► You're not gonna be allowed near like the cool thing.

00:08:02 ◼   ► You're not gonna be in the big ring.

00:08:04 ◼   ► You're not gonna be in the courtyard

00:08:05 ◼   ► or the middle of the big ring.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Only the press will ever see

00:08:09 ◼   ► the Steve Jobs theater probably.

00:08:11 ◼   ► So it's just like, I don't know,

00:08:13 ◼   ► it has this kind of, it's like,

00:08:16 ◼   ► look at this cool thing we made, you can't have it.

00:08:18 ◼   ► Like I would love to see Apple Park.

00:08:22 ◼   ► - You could go there and walk around.

00:08:23 ◼   ► I mean you can't go into people's office pass

00:08:25 ◼   ► where you have to badge through stuff,

00:08:26 ◼   ► but I'm sure you could walk into the middle of the thing

00:08:28 ◼   ► and go through the Cafe Max

00:08:30 ◼   ► or whatever they're gonna call it in this place.

00:08:31 ◼   ► - I bet I can't.

00:08:33 ◼   ► You want to bet?

00:08:34 ◼   ► Well, I think you can.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:08:36 ◼   ► I don't think that's the case, because—

00:08:38 ◼   ► You've got to get some Apple employee to escort you.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Well, that's the thing.

00:08:41 ◼   ► It's less on Earth than Google, where you have to print out yourself a little badge.

00:08:44 ◼   ► You don't even have to do that at Apple.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:08:47 ◼   ► Uh, I'm pretty sure we needed badges.

00:08:49 ◼   ► I'm trying to remember when we went back—or when we went there, but—

00:08:51 ◼   ► I think you need stickers.

00:08:52 ◼   ► I mean, that's what I meant.

00:08:54 ◼   ► But, um, yeah, I think without an escort, you don't see squat.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Like, you certainly didn't see squat at Infinite Loo.

00:08:59 ◼   ► But if you just want to go through the food place into the middle of the ring where the

00:09:02 ◼   ► the trees are. I think you can pull that off.

00:09:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would love that, but even that is nearly impossible for anybody to actually

00:09:08 ◼   ► do.

00:09:09 ◼   ► - Do you just get a friend at Apple, dude? Anyway, um, I--

00:09:12 ◼   ► - Oh, yes, because everyone has friends at Apple.

00:09:15 ◼   ► - All of us have friends at Apple on this show.

00:09:17 ◼   ► - The three of us do, but--

00:09:18 ◼   ► - I visited--so I visited Infinite Loop I think about four or five times now. I've been

00:09:23 ◼   ► actually brought through and gone to Cafe Max one time. That's like, once I've actually

00:09:28 ◼   ► gone like, into the building, and not even really into the--I just walked through the

00:09:32 ◼   ► building to get to the food court like one time. So I'm an Apple Park thing like I remain

00:09:40 ◼   ► unconvinced by the utility of Apple Park. It is unquestionably a beautiful place. The

00:09:50 ◼   ► buildings are beautiful as sort of works of art. The views from and of the buildings are

00:09:55 ◼   ► beautiful but I don't know if the buildings are good places to do the

00:10:05 ◼   ► things they're designed for you to do is it a good place to work is it a good

00:10:07 ◼   ► place to commute to is it a good place to I mean you can ask the press was it a

00:10:11 ◼   ► good place to have a press event it seems like mostly pulled that off yeah

00:10:15 ◼   ► although you know because it's purpose-built for that I would hope so

00:10:19 ◼   ► like but this the bar is low there because if you try to do it in like an

00:10:24 ◼   ► an actual old theater that's not designed to have a huge amount of press in it. You know,

00:10:28 ◼   ► you fill theaters with an audience and a small amount of press. You don't fill an actual theater

00:10:33 ◼   ► like the Billy Graham Theater with, you know, giant amounts of press that every single person

00:10:40 ◼   ► in the audience is there because they're reporting on something. So hopefully this fulfills that

00:10:43 ◼   ► purpose. But even there, like the top part of this building, as amazing as it is to see a giant glass

00:10:50 ◼   ► cylinder with a big hat on it, you know, like how is that big thing holding up there? Is it gonna

00:10:53 ◼   ► to collapse and kill us?

00:10:55 ◼   ► How do they get the wires up to the lights?

00:10:57 ◼   ► Oh, it must be these little skinny--

00:10:58 ◼   ► it's like a magic trick, right?

00:11:00 ◼   ► Little spinning elevator and the cool stairs

00:11:02 ◼   ► that are like the ones from the Regent Street store in London

00:11:05 ◼   ► and all other things that you recognize from Apple retail.

00:11:08 ◼   ► It's so empty of things.

00:11:10 ◼   ► Like, where are the garbage cans and the bathrooms

00:11:13 ◼   ► and someplace to get a drink of water and something

00:11:16 ◼   ► to sit down on?

00:11:17 ◼   ► It's like, well, those are outside,

00:11:19 ◼   ► and we bring them in and have rentals.

00:11:21 ◼   ► And there are bathrooms there, and you can get to them.

00:11:23 ◼   ► But it's just I don't know I look at it

00:11:26 ◼   ► and I think of it more as a beautiful sculpture and less as a functional place for people to do a thing but

00:11:32 ◼   ► the theater I think can't afford to be weird kind of like the Sydney Opera House like it is itself a

00:11:38 ◼   ► Theatrical thing the rest of Apple Park is still you know

00:11:42 ◼   ► Nobody knows we'll have to wait until everyone moves in and then we can all talk to our Apple friends

00:11:45 ◼   ► We were just talking about and say how what's it like what's like to work there?

00:11:47 ◼   ► Is it better or worse than the weird 80s infinite loop canvas?

00:11:50 ◼   ► You know, is it better or worse than Google or whatever other place that you might have worked?

00:11:54 ◼   ► So I remain

00:11:57 ◼   ► slightly

00:11:59 ◼   ► Dubious about the utility of Apple Park as a place to work but certainly looks cool in pictures and none of us have to work

00:12:04 ◼   ► There so we can just enjoy it in that way

00:12:05 ◼   ► I mean probably as as the answer is so often with modern Johnny

00:12:10 ◼   ► I've creations probably the answer to all your practical needs is either wireless or dongles

00:12:16 ◼   ► Yeah, get a dongle to put your garbage in. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the AR installation looked pretty neat though

00:12:22 ◼   ► I mean, it's totally like I can't think the word I'm looking for but it's like oh, of course

00:12:26 ◼   ► You have to have an AR installation, but it did look cool

00:12:28 ◼   ► like, you know if you didn't see the video it it looks like they they did almost like a

00:12:35 ◼   ► monochrome

00:12:36 ◼   ► 3d display monochrome also isn't the best word for it, but like a very very blank looking 3d display that's somewhere

00:12:42 ◼   ► I guess at the visitor center and then you can take your like iPad or iPhone or whatever and hold it up to this 3d

00:12:49 ◼   ► miniature of the park of

00:12:51 ◼   ► Apple Park and it will show you like the full res, you know

00:12:56 ◼   ► All the trees all the happy trees everywhere and everything and here's here's where here's where all the airflow is because people care about that

00:13:03 ◼   ► But it does look clever and use of a neat use of AR and speaking of airflow and things like that

00:13:09 ◼   ► Apparently the whole building is 100% renewable energy

00:13:11 ◼   ► Which is pretty cool because I'd like my kid soon-to-be kids to be able to I don't know have a planet to live on after

00:13:17 ◼   ► I'm dead. So that's kind of neat

00:13:19 ◼   ► Especially since it is huge. But yeah, I don't know I did there was a lot of

00:13:23 ◼   ► Especially around Apple Park. There was a fair dose of self-congratulation

00:13:28 ◼   ► Which I think some of that is to be expected

00:13:32 ◼   ► I think it ran a little bit long for my taste, but you know, it's their event not mine so they can do what they want

00:13:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the Apple Park and the Steve Jobs thing fine, right

00:13:42 ◼   ► But then when they went into the retail thing, which is the next segment I started to think all right

00:13:46 ◼   ► Yeah, get on with it. You're allowed a certain amount of introductory material, right but

00:13:52 ◼   ► You know

00:13:53 ◼   ► I I mean maybe it's just because I'm not that interested in retail or maybe because it didn't seem like it fit in the event

00:13:59 ◼   ► because this is supposed to be an event about products and

00:14:01 ◼   ► The reason you get to talk about jobs and Apple Park is because that's the venue and it's the introduction of it

00:14:06 ◼   ► But retail you could talk about any time and I I confess I mostly zoned out and when I rewatched it

00:14:12 ◼   ► I didn't bother watching that segment again

00:14:15 ◼   ► Did they announce anything new or say anything that made it worth the amount of time that it took in this presentation?

00:14:21 ◼   ► Of course, they did if they're not Apple Store. Yes, they're not Apple Stores anymore. They're the town centers town centers indeed

00:14:29 ◼   ► Which speaking like I don't know I'd block this out

00:14:33 ◼   ► I'd block out the segment where they try

00:14:35 ◼   ► to redefine vocabulary.

00:14:37 ◼   ► - The problem with this whole segment is that

00:14:40 ◼   ► it was full of retail jargon and the way

00:14:44 ◼   ► that their internal initiatives are probably

00:14:47 ◼   ► talking about these things, but there's a fundamental

00:14:50 ◼   ► mismatch between how they talk about this to themselves

00:14:54 ◼   ► and what we care about as the customers.

00:14:56 ◼   ► And I don't think they respected that difference

00:14:59 ◼   ► or understood that difference for this segment.

00:15:01 ◼   ► This is not the first time they've made that mistake.

00:15:04 ◼   ► This is actually one of the major criticisms I have

00:15:08 ◼   ► of generally Tim Cook's presentations about things

00:15:12 ◼   ► is that it seems like they often blur the line

00:15:16 ◼   ► or don't find the right balance between

00:15:19 ◼   ► internal language and external language

00:15:22 ◼   ► and external concerns.

00:15:24 ◼   ► - Would you say that your customer stat

00:15:25 ◼   ► is not exactly where you wish it was?

00:15:27 ◼   ► - Oh, it's blow away.

00:15:29 ◼   ► So the whole thing with the stores,

00:15:32 ◼   ► Angela Ahrens is going through telling how

00:15:34 ◼   ► they're gonna have all these great events

00:15:35 ◼   ► and they're making all these atriums and forums

00:15:37 ◼   ► and theaters and that's all, that's interesting.

00:15:40 ◼   ► But what people want out of the Apple store experience

00:15:45 ◼   ► that we have today--

00:15:46 ◼   ► - In and out of the Genius Bar appointment

00:15:48 ◼   ► in a reasonable amount of time.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And nowhere to line up.

00:15:50 ◼   ► - Yes, what people want is literally shorter Genius Bar

00:15:55 ◼   ► waits and make it easier to get appointments.

00:15:59 ◼   ► In general, Apple stores are overcrowded

00:16:02 ◼   ► and there's a huge burden on the staff that's there,

00:16:06 ◼   ► so we need more of them probably

00:16:08 ◼   ► and they need to have more staff.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And I don't think people care if they're waiting for an hour

00:16:14 ◼   ► and standing next to a table somewhere

00:16:16 ◼   ► or in something called a forum

00:16:17 ◼   ► with a couple plants in it.

00:16:19 ◼   ► That's nice and I'm glad they're doing things like that

00:16:22 ◼   ► for their own sake, but we the customers,

00:16:25 ◼   ► that doesn't really solve a problem we have

00:16:27 ◼   ► and the stores have real problems.

00:16:29 ◼   ► that seem to not be getting solved.

00:16:31 ◼   ► So it's hard to enjoy a segment like this

00:16:34 ◼   ► when it's not solving the problems we really have

00:16:37 ◼   ► and also full of this crazy jargon that we don't care about

00:16:40 ◼   ► and that's really hard to pay attention to.

00:16:43 ◼   ► - I think the whole Apple retail thing

00:16:44 ◼   ► is another great example of success hides problems.

00:16:48 ◼   ► It is important that the stores are nice.

00:16:51 ◼   ► That is important.

00:16:52 ◼   ► It's part of the mystique of Apple.

00:16:54 ◼   ► It's part of the reason people are excited to go there

00:16:56 ◼   ► and see the products that are on the tables.

00:16:57 ◼   ► And all of that is important.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Not to say that it should just be like a giant supermarket with a million checkout lines

00:17:03 ◼   ► to be for efficiency, right?

00:17:04 ◼   ► It has to be a nice place.

00:17:06 ◼   ► But the success that's hiding the problems is the reason Apple retail is worth more money

00:17:12 ◼   ► per square foot than any other retail place is because they sell expensive high margin

00:17:16 ◼   ► products and they sell a lot of them because they're really good and people want them,

00:17:20 ◼   ► right?

00:17:21 ◼   ► That's it.

00:17:22 ◼   ► You have a store with products that people want presented nicely in good locations and

00:17:27 ◼   ► and your margins on those products are good.

00:17:29 ◼   ► And that'll gives you this store

00:17:34 ◼   ► that people just wanna go to

00:17:36 ◼   ► and throw huge wads of money at you constantly,

00:17:39 ◼   ► like over and over again.

00:17:41 ◼   ► People are crowding in the stores

00:17:42 ◼   ► and you take all that success.

00:17:44 ◼   ► You're like, we should make nicer atriums

00:17:46 ◼   ► and have a living wall

00:17:47 ◼   ► and carve this thing out of stone and call things like,

00:17:51 ◼   ► you're losing sight of the purpose of this.

00:17:55 ◼   ► I mean, maybe they're not,

00:17:55 ◼   ► maybe this is for the external thing,

00:17:56 ◼   ► Like the purpose of the store is exchanging goods for money, right?

00:17:59 ◼   ► People come in with money and they want stuff to come out.

00:18:01 ◼   ► And again, it has to be nice, but you know, none of this stuff you're doing is

00:18:07 ◼   ► making it more likely that people are going to come in and buy your things or

00:18:13 ◼   ► making it so that you sell more of them per second, right?

00:18:16 ◼   ► You know, it seems like it's mostly a wash and you're just kind of like polishing

00:18:20 ◼   ► the tables and rearranging the decor and trying not to interrupt the flow of money.

00:18:25 ◼   ► But certainly if your goal was to, you know, either increase the satisfaction, then you'll be like less wait times, more staff, so on and so forth.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Or if you want to increase profits, then get people in and out faster.

00:18:36 ◼   ► And that might also increase satisfaction.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Nobody is clamoring for even nicer materials than an Apple store.

00:18:42 ◼   ► And yet they're constantly redoing things.

00:18:44 ◼   ► I'm not saying they shouldn't make them nice.

00:18:46 ◼   ► They totally should.

00:18:47 ◼   ► But, you know, that's, I don't know, maybe we're unique.

00:18:50 ◼   ► Maybe we don't spend enough time in Apple stores.

00:18:52 ◼   ► I think they're plenty nice.

00:18:54 ◼   ► I think that I think they are really nice and I think they do they should remodel them refresh them periodically

00:18:59 ◼   ► But all that money flowing in lets them sort of stick their head in the stands that yeah

00:19:04 ◼   ► Sometimes it's frustrating but the money keeps coming in. So let's you know, try to get a new material for the floor

00:19:10 ◼   ► yeah, you know, uh, this is a somewhat silly example, but um

00:19:14 ◼   ► I went for a run and I was putting my phone into my little fanny pack. Hi Brits. Hello

00:19:21 ◼   ► I was putting my phone into my fanny pack or whatever it's called and not that and yeah, well, it's called that here

00:19:28 ◼   ► It's not called that there. But anyway, bum bag. Thank you slate 401. That's what I was looking for

00:19:33 ◼   ► I think that's the British version. Anyway, is that real bum bag? Yeah, I've heard that several times

00:19:38 ◼   ► Not just a parody of fanny pack. I don't think so. I mean they're all kind of parodies of themselves, but but yes

00:19:44 ◼   ► Anyway, I'm gonna get through this darn it

00:19:48 ◼   ► So I dropped my phone on the pavement,

00:19:51 ◼   ► shattered my first iPhone.

00:19:52 ◼   ► It's the first time I've done that

00:19:53 ◼   ► since getting my 3GS way back when.

00:19:56 ◼   ► I made it almost 3,000 days without shattering a phone.

00:19:59 ◼   ► I've had some like nicks or scratches or what have you.

00:20:01 ◼   ► - No, is that before or after the last Mac mini update?

00:20:04 ◼   ► - That's a good question, I'm not sure.

00:20:06 ◼   ► But anyway, I went to schedule an appointment

00:20:11 ◼   ► on Friday mornings.

00:20:13 ◼   ► This was at like 6.45, seven o'clock in the morning

00:20:16 ◼   ► when I was done with my run.

00:20:17 ◼   ► And there was some availability. There was like a hair of availability Friday and some availability

00:20:23 ◼   ► Saturday and I ended up having to wait until Sunday and just a couple days out.

00:20:28 ◼   ► The times that I had were not available to me were not terribly convenient, which yes,

00:20:35 ◼   ► I understand that like, "Oh, I live very close to an Apple store. Don't be creepy."

00:20:39 ◼   ► You know, if you live an hour or two away from an Apple store, it's much, much worse.

00:20:42 ◼   ► So this could have been a whole lot worse. But if I had been able to schedule like a same day

00:20:47 ◼   ► appointment for a convenient time for me, that would have been amazing. Instead, I was like,

00:20:52 ◼   ► "Oh, I guess that's when I'll go in." And then when I got there, it was like, "Okay, wait 10,

00:20:57 ◼   ► 15 minutes for somebody to come talk to you to just verify the fact that you have the phone you

00:21:02 ◼   ► say you have. And then wait 10 or 15 minutes for somebody else to come and grab the phone. And then

00:21:07 ◼   ► wait the two hours to have the phone repaired." And yes, I understand that this is a first world

00:21:12 ◼   ► problem to end all first-world problems, but the point I'm bringing, the reason I

00:21:17 ◼   ► bring all this up is because if I had had like a next-day appointment, would

00:21:19 ◼   ► have been in and out in an hour, which I think if the store was empty or perhaps

00:21:23 ◼   ► more appropriately staffed, then I could have been, that would have been amazing!

00:21:27 ◼   ► And I wouldn't have stopped talking about that forever! But instead it's like,

00:21:31 ◼   ► "Oh, well, I guess I got to go to the Apple Store." You mean you have to go to Apple

00:21:35 ◼   ► today? You will be today at Apple today, going into their forum,

00:21:41 ◼   ► atrium to be in their Genius Grove. I'm actually glad you brought that up. I

00:21:45 ◼   ► actually think I like Today at Apple. I think I like the name and I think I like

00:21:48 ◼   ► the premise. Will I ever do it? Probably not. I like the idea. Even though I don't

00:21:54 ◼   ► think it's for me, I think it's a good idea and I actually really really like

00:21:57 ◼   ► the name Today at Apple and in the little video they showed, you know, they

00:22:00 ◼   ► showed Today at Apple we're gonna, I don't know, do a photo walk. Today at

00:22:03 ◼   ► Apple we're gonna do sketching. Today at Apple we're gonna do Teacher Tuesday,

00:22:06 ◼   ► which I also think is really awesome.

00:22:09 ◼   ► So as much as I want to poke fun,

00:22:12 ◼   ► and I know you were joking,

00:22:13 ◼   ► but I want to poke fun at today at Apple,

00:22:15 ◼   ► I actually do enjoy that.

00:22:17 ◼   ► Apple Town Center, however,

00:22:18 ◼   ► get out of here with that nonsense, it's terrible.

00:22:21 ◼   ► - All right, now we've spent too much time on retail,

00:22:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:22:24 ◼   ► accurately reflecting the presentation.

00:22:27 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:22:28 ◼   ► - We are sponsored this week by Aftershokz

00:22:30 ◼   ► bone conduction headphones.

00:22:31 ◼   ► Go to ATP.Aftershokz.com to learn more.

00:22:35 ◼   ► Aftershocks headphones work by bone conduction.

00:22:38 ◼   ► Small transducers rest in front of your ears,

00:22:40 ◼   ► not inside or around them like most headphones,

00:22:43 ◼   ► and they send vibrations through your cheekbones

00:22:45 ◼   ► that are too small for you to feel

00:22:47 ◼   ► directly to your inner ear.

00:22:49 ◼   ► So unlike every other kind of headphone,

00:22:51 ◼   ► bone conduction leaves your ears completely open

00:22:54 ◼   ► with nothing sitting on top of them or resting in them

00:22:57 ◼   ► or squishing inside your ear canal.

00:22:59 ◼   ► And this brings some major benefits.

00:23:01 ◼   ► So first of all, there's a major comfort benefit.

00:23:03 ◼   ► If you, like me, can't wear earbuds

00:23:06 ◼   ► 'cause they just hurt after a while,

00:23:07 ◼   ► this doesn't have that problem.

00:23:08 ◼   ► There's nothing in your ear.

00:23:10 ◼   ► They're also awesome for exercise and for hot weather

00:23:14 ◼   ► because you don't sweat as much without this thing

00:23:16 ◼   ► covering up or sticking inside your ear.

00:23:18 ◼   ► They also stay in place really well

00:23:19 ◼   ► as you move around during exercise

00:23:20 ◼   ► and they are IP55 certified for water resistance.

00:23:24 ◼   ► So if they get too sweaty or if it starts raining,

00:23:26 ◼   ► you don't have to worry about it.

00:23:28 ◼   ► And the biggest difference for me with Aftershock

00:23:30 ◼   ► compared to any other headphones

00:23:31 ◼   ► is that nothing is blocking your ears,

00:23:33 ◼   ► so you hear all of the sound of the world around you.

00:23:37 ◼   ► So this is not so good if you're in a very loud place,

00:23:39 ◼   ► like a subway station, but it's awesome

00:23:42 ◼   ► if you're doing something like running outside,

00:23:45 ◼   ► or doing stuff around your house

00:23:46 ◼   ► where you wanna be able to still hear

00:23:48 ◼   ► what's going on in the house,

00:23:49 ◼   ► or taking a call in an office.

00:23:51 ◼   ► It is incredible, it is like nothing,

00:23:53 ◼   ► it's like no other kind of headphone I've ever used,

00:23:55 ◼   ► and I use it for walking especially.

00:23:57 ◼   ► It is amazing for walking,

00:24:00 ◼   ► or any kind of other outdoor exercise

00:24:02 ◼   ► where you want to hear the world

00:24:04 ◼   ► and you don't want to be blocked out

00:24:06 ◼   ► for safety or practicality reasons.

00:24:08 ◼   ► The flagship model was the Trex Titanium,

00:24:10 ◼   ► which they still sell and it's great.

00:24:12 ◼   ► And it is, I think, my favorite overall one.

00:24:14 ◼   ► They also just announced and are taking pre-orders

00:24:17 ◼   ► for the Trex Air.

00:24:19 ◼   ► This is 20% lighter, it now has a new lightweight

00:24:22 ◼   ► all titanium headband, it has reduced sound leakage,

00:24:25 ◼   ► improved microphones, and better bass response if you want.

00:24:29 ◼   ► Personally, I prefer the pocketability of the original one

00:24:32 ◼   ► 'cause the shape is a little bit different,

00:24:33 ◼   ► but they're both amazing.

00:24:34 ◼   ► You can't go wrong with either one.

00:24:35 ◼   ► They're both incredibly light, incredibly comfortable,

00:24:38 ◼   ► and I highly recommend them.

00:24:39 ◼   ► So go to ATP.aftershocks.com to learn more

00:24:43 ◼   ► about the Trek's air and the Trek's titanium.

00:24:46 ◼   ► Thank you very much to Aftershocks for sponsoring our show.

00:24:49 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:24:52 ◼   ► Next up was Apple Watch.

00:24:54 ◼   ► This was, it started out with some new medical initiatives

00:24:58 ◼   ► around continuous heart rate, not full-blown monitoring,

00:25:03 ◼   ► but kind of like passive checks throughout the day

00:25:05 ◼   ► for heart rate monitoring that can do new things

00:25:08 ◼   ► like attempt to detect if your heart rate is elevated

00:25:11 ◼   ► when it shouldn't be, like if you're not exercising.

00:25:14 ◼   ► And they also announced a new heart study

00:25:15 ◼   ► that they're starting that will,

00:25:18 ◼   ► that the goal of which is to detect things

00:25:21 ◼   ► like arrhythmias and AFib.

00:25:25 ◼   ► And this is a really big deal.

00:25:28 ◼   ► This is exactly the kind of awesome thing

00:25:31 ◼   ► that I think the Jeff Williams-led health initiatives

00:25:34 ◼   ► really get right.

00:25:36 ◼   ► I really hope that this works out for them.

00:25:38 ◼   ► I'm very glad they're doing this.

00:25:40 ◼   ► They should be commended for doing this

00:25:42 ◼   ► because this is potentially life-changing

00:25:45 ◼   ► for a lot of people, a lot of people.

00:25:48 ◼   ► So that's awesome.

00:25:50 ◼   ► - Well, you have to opt into this, the study, though.

00:25:52 ◼   ► It's not, I mean, it'll be better when,

00:25:54 ◼   ► if everything works out.

00:25:55 ◼   ► I don't know what the regulatory situation is,

00:25:57 ◼   ► but can they just like build this in so you don't have to know anything you just put your

00:25:59 ◼   ► Apple watch on and then one day you get some kind of notification says hey we noticed something

00:26:05 ◼   ► weird maybe you should contact somebody and you know whatever versus now where you have

00:26:10 ◼   ► to download this app sign up to be part of the study probably sign a bunch of disclaimer

00:26:14 ◼   ► things or whatever so it's good for people who already know that they might be at risk

00:26:19 ◼   ► for this type of thing to have monitoring but no one as far as I understand this program

00:26:23 ◼   ► is going to passively get the benefit of this program because it's still in the sort of

00:26:26 ◼   ► experimental stage.

00:26:28 ◼   ► So it's a start, it's a start.

00:26:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you'd have to opt in

00:26:32 ◼   ► to being in the study and things like that.

00:26:35 ◼   ► But they had like their--

00:26:36 ◼   ► - You have to download an app and everything.

00:26:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, but like Apple has been building a framework

00:26:40 ◼   ► to do these things for some time now.

00:26:42 ◼   ► So like that's, and to do it at quite immense scale too.

00:26:46 ◼   ► So that's why these are so important

00:26:48 ◼   ► and why they're so impressive.

00:26:50 ◼   ► That Apple's doing this at scale

00:26:52 ◼   ► with pretty advanced resources at their fingertips here

00:26:55 ◼   ► or at their wrist tips.

00:26:57 ◼   ► And so it's, there actually is potential

00:27:00 ◼   ► to do pretty significant things here.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, they were saying that, you know,

00:27:03 ◼   ► I thought it was during this keynote that they said that,

00:27:05 ◼   ► you know, a lot of medical studies

00:27:06 ◼   ► are something like a thousand people,

00:27:07 ◼   ► and this is potentially going to be like tens of thousands,

00:27:10 ◼   ► if not more than that, which is really awesome.

00:27:12 ◼   ► We also skipped a brief moment.

00:27:14 ◼   ► What did you think of the introductory video

00:27:16 ◼   ► for Apple Watch?

00:27:17 ◼   ► This is not the cellular video which comes later.

00:27:20 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, where they have like the guy

00:27:22 ◼   ► like reading his letter from his car crash and stuff.

00:27:24 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:27:26 ◼   ► - My main complaint about that thing

00:27:27 ◼   ► is that it was not clear to me

00:27:30 ◼   ► whether the people in the video were actors

00:27:32 ◼   ► or the actual people.

00:27:34 ◼   ► - Well, it's funny you bring that up.

00:27:35 ◼   ► I wish I could, it's like we planned this.

00:27:38 ◼   ► Friend of the show, Kyle Seth Gray, or Kyle's the Gray,

00:27:41 ◼   ► he was a relay listener,

00:27:43 ◼   ► and I think he listens to the show, I'm not sure,

00:27:45 ◼   ► so if so, hi Kyle.

00:27:46 ◼   ► But anyway, he's definitely a relay listener,

00:27:49 ◼   ► and he was one of the people in the video.

00:27:51 ◼   ► He was the one on the bike, the stationary bike.

00:27:54 ◼   ► And so that is a real person that I have met, and I have shaken his hand with my hand, and

00:27:59 ◼   ► he is real.

00:28:00 ◼   ► So yeah, I don't—maybe others were actors, but I'm pretty sure not.

00:28:04 ◼   ► And I feel like we saw something fly by that the guy in the elevator was also a relay listener.

00:28:12 ◼   ► It's always kind of weird to me when—I mean, they do this all the time, but they

00:28:16 ◼   ► enter a segment about a product.

00:28:18 ◼   ► And especially with the Apple Watch, where the new one looks just like the old one, it

00:28:23 ◼   ► It takes a couple seconds to ramp up to say, they're just telling us how great their product,

00:28:28 ◼   ► existing product is, which they tend not to do.

00:28:30 ◼   ► Like there wasn't a big segment about how great the iPhone 7 is before the iPhone 8

00:28:34 ◼   ► part, right?

00:28:35 ◼   ► But it's like, let me just tell you about, and it was also about watchOS 4 and people

00:28:39 ◼   ► love their Apple watch and sales are great, even though we're not going to tell you how

00:28:42 ◼   ► many there are, but trust us, they're great.

00:28:45 ◼   ► And then the video.

00:28:47 ◼   ► And then of course the new, the new Apple watch on top of that.

00:28:50 ◼   ► But it was like, it was almost like, again, a lot of time spent on something that is not

00:28:55 ◼   ► the announcement of the new product.

00:28:57 ◼   ► But you know, I don't, I guess they feel like it's important to them to emphasize

00:29:04 ◼   ► the fact that the watch is a success, like, in a way that they don't feel like they

00:29:09 ◼   ► have to do for the phone.

00:29:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:29:11 ◼   ► It beats me.

00:29:13 ◼   ► But I thought the video was good.

00:29:14 ◼   ► And I think, to come back to where we were before I interrupted, I really think this

00:29:18 ◼   ► Apple Heart Study could be something extremely powerful and I'm pleased to see them doing

00:29:23 ◼   ► it. This is another example of Tim or whomever deciding that this is something that's important

00:29:28 ◼   ► to Apple or to them personally and then eventually Apple. And so they're making it happen and

00:29:35 ◼   ► really making some stark positive change or hopefully, we don't know yet, but I would

00:29:39 ◼   ► assume that will be the case and that's really awesome. So then after that, unless there's

00:29:43 ◼   ► something else we had here.

00:29:44 ◼   ► - Series three.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. So series 3, which is with LTE.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Well, optionally with LTE.

00:29:52 ◼   ► That's a fair point, fair point. It's optionally with LTE. This is pretty exciting. It sounds

00:29:57 ◼   ► like it will be a completely separate, of course, connection to your particular cell

00:30:03 ◼   ► phone carrier. You will share, however, the same phone number with your iPhone. And there's

00:30:09 ◼   ► been a little bit of chatter about how that's working technically behind the scenes. But

00:30:13 ◼   ► The net effect is, if you run out of the house and your phone is at home and you go driving

00:30:18 ◼   ► somewhere else or running or what have you, then if you get a phone call, your watch and

00:30:24 ◼   ► your phone will both simultaneously ring and you can answer on either one.

00:30:28 ◼   ► You can send text messages from either one, etc., etc., in a way that you can only do

00:30:32 ◼   ► now if you're either connected to Wi-Fi in certain circumstances or connected via Bluetooth

00:30:36 ◼   ► to your phone.

00:30:37 ◼   ► And that's extremely cool.

00:30:39 ◼   ► What's not cool is that at least in America, it seems that all the cell phone carriers,

00:30:44 ◼   ► or at least anyone who's talked about it yet, is saying it's going to be $10 a month for

00:30:48 ◼   ► a watch, which I think is preposterous.

00:30:50 ◼   ► I don't know what it is.

00:30:51 ◼   ► I don't know why I came to this conclusion.

00:30:53 ◼   ► Because the watch is small and you pay more money for big things.

00:30:56 ◼   ► No.

00:30:57 ◼   ► No, I think you're right.

00:30:58 ◼   ► K-man size comparison.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:01 ◼   ► I know that we are spoiled by modern cellular plans being amazing, but it's an entirely

00:31:06 ◼   ► separate cellular data device that is only $10 a month to have on your plan, that's a

00:31:12 ◼   ► good deal.

00:31:13 ◼   ► No, it's not more data.

00:31:16 ◼   ► They're selling you air like Woody Allen's father in that movie that I can't remember.

00:31:20 ◼   ► They're not giving you more data.

00:31:22 ◼   ► It doesn't cost them that much more money to have another device on their network.

00:31:28 ◼   ► So trust me, they're making a huge amount of profit at an additional $10.

00:31:32 ◼   ► - No, I know, but that is a very,

00:31:35 ◼   ► compared to the industry and what they do

00:31:38 ◼   ► and what we've always paid for,

00:31:39 ◼   ► to have an entirely separately activated device

00:31:42 ◼   ► for $10 a month is pretty good.

00:31:44 ◼   ► - I disagree.

00:31:46 ◼   ► - It's the same phone number.

00:31:48 ◼   ► I mean, here's the problem.

00:31:49 ◼   ► The problem with all this stuff is that it's not,

00:31:50 ◼   ► we don't know what we should actually be paying

00:31:52 ◼   ► for these things because so many telecom companies

00:31:55 ◼   ► have not a monopoly, but you have one or two

00:31:58 ◼   ► reasonable choices.

00:31:59 ◼   ► The competition is not strong in this industry.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Sure. Regulation is not, you know, so we don't know what this stuff would actually be worth with

00:32:07 ◼   ► competition. And we do know that in other parts of the world, you get more data and faster speeds

00:32:11 ◼   ► for less money. So the general frustration with carriers and telecom in the US underlies

00:32:16 ◼   ► everything. And so it's hard to say, you know, what you're saying, your argument, you have Marco

00:32:21 ◼   ► is the relative thing like thing thing x costs this amount and thing y is cost cost way less

00:32:28 ◼   ► less proportionally. I'm getting another device and it's only $10. But it just feels like

00:32:34 ◼   ► the bad, the doomsday scenarios of the net neutrality things where it's like every new

00:32:38 ◼   ► thing you want to have they can charge you money for. The carriers have always been there

00:32:42 ◼   ► and remain there. And now it's like, well, great, everything's going to have a cell connection

00:32:46 ◼   ► and I have to get not nickel and dimed, but five and 10 for every single one of these

00:32:52 ◼   ► new items that I add. It's untenable after a certain point, especially if it doesn't

00:32:56 ◼   ► come with more data, right? Especially if it doesn't. So I, you know, we all hate carriages

00:33:00 ◼   ► and wish they did a better job. At this point, when the number of devices starts going up

00:33:03 ◼   ► like this, like we fast forward 10, 15 years and everybody in the family who is an adolescent

00:33:09 ◼   ► or adult has a watch, a phone, a tablet, and not a laptop because Apple will never add

00:33:17 ◼   ► cellular to it because they're evil. That's a lot of damn devices. And you start saying,

00:33:22 ◼   ► "Can I just pay a huge amount of money for my whole family and just be like a flat rate

00:33:25 ◼   ► for a huge amount of data and not have to get additional money every time someone adds

00:33:30 ◼   ► a new device, but we're far from that.

00:33:33 ◼   ► Anyway, it's not that bad.

00:33:35 ◼   ► $10 seems reasonable for the kind of people who are going to buy an Apple Watch with cellular,

00:33:41 ◼   ► which is already a pretty expensive product, as a companion to their already expensive

00:33:46 ◼   ► phone.

00:33:47 ◼   ► So Apple's right on the money in terms of who this product is for and what they're willing

00:33:50 ◼   ► to pay.

00:33:51 ◼   ► of that later when we start getting into the phones.

00:33:53 ◼   ► But, you know, it looks good.

00:33:56 ◼   ► - I agree with you, Marco, that getting this for free,

00:34:00 ◼   ► and Jon as well, but Marco, I think you were,

00:34:02 ◼   ► I think you thought I wanted this for free.

00:34:04 ◼   ► I don't.

00:34:05 ◼   ► I don't think that a free additional connection

00:34:09 ◼   ► to, in my case, AT&T's network is reasonable.

00:34:11 ◼   ► I don't think that at all.

00:34:13 ◼   ► This is different, for example, than tethering,

00:34:15 ◼   ► where tethering is still only one connection to AT&T.

00:34:19 ◼   ► And how I choose to blow through my data

00:34:21 ◼   ► to me should be my choice. And I found it completely egregious when tethering was an

00:34:26 ◼   ► additional fee years ago, because it's still only one connection and it's still just my

00:34:31 ◼   ► data. And in fact, in some ways, they should encourage tethering because then I'm going

00:34:34 ◼   ► to blow through my data even quicker and then hypothetically pay them even more money. This

00:34:38 ◼   ► is different in that I do think it should cost a non-zero amount of money to have an

00:34:45 ◼   ► Apple Watch connected to your cell phone plan. The thing that bothers me though, is that

00:34:50 ◼   ► I don't think $10 a month is a reasonable cost.

00:34:53 ◼   ► I think it should be half that.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Now, how did I come to that conclusion?

00:34:56 ◼   ► No freaking clue.

00:34:57 ◼   ► I think it's what John alluded to earlier.

00:34:59 ◼   ► The watch is physically small.

00:35:00 ◼   ► The iPad is physically big.

00:35:02 ◼   ► It should be less than the iPad.

00:35:03 ◼   ► And I can see that, really, if you put that on paper,

00:35:06 ◼   ► it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.

00:35:08 ◼   ► Nope.

00:35:09 ◼   ► But it just seems--

00:35:10 ◼   ► it just seems bonkers to me that something that really shouldn't

00:35:14 ◼   ► necessarily be drawing that much data-- and even if it was,

00:35:17 ◼   ► it's still the same bucket of data.

00:35:19 ◼   ► It's not like I'm getting more data for it.

00:35:21 ◼   ► I just don't think that $10 a month is reasonable.

00:35:24 ◼   ► I think five would have been the right answer

00:35:26 ◼   ► and I wouldn't have blinked an eye if it was $5 a month.

00:35:29 ◼   ► But for $10 a month, that's making me go,

00:35:32 ◼   ► "Ugh, I think I want cellular, but I'm not so sure."

00:35:37 ◼   ► And I don't know.

00:35:39 ◼   ► - You want cellular, forget it.

00:35:41 ◼   ► - Okay, before I set you on fire,

00:35:43 ◼   ► this kind of like micro price anger

00:35:47 ◼   ► is why app developers can't charge money for apps.

00:35:49 ◼   ► But anyway, let's not do that now.

00:35:52 ◼   ► - Well, you're right, and actually--

00:35:53 ◼   ► - $10 a month, $5 a month even is great for apps.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Anyway, here's the thing.

00:35:59 ◼   ► The cost of this device to the carriers

00:36:01 ◼   ► is network capacity, right?

00:36:03 ◼   ► Because every device that is communicating

00:36:05 ◼   ► one of those towers adds, right?

00:36:06 ◼   ► But in the grand scheme of things, even with Apple's,

00:36:09 ◼   ► we have no idea how many they're selling things.

00:36:11 ◼   ► We know roughly how many they're selling

00:36:14 ◼   ► in proportion to the number of cell phones

00:36:15 ◼   ► that are on a cell network at any given time, and it is minuscule.

00:36:18 ◼   ► So there is a capacity increase for connecting these watches, but it is small, and all pricing

00:36:24 ◼   ► of cell data plans is in the realm of whatever carriers make up and/or collude with each

00:36:30 ◼   ► other for.

00:36:31 ◼   ► There is no market pressure to lower prices because there are so few people, and the only

00:36:36 ◼   ► one who's hungry is always like the one with the terrible network, or I think it was that

00:36:39 ◼   ► Sprint these days or whatever, or T-Mobile, right?

00:36:43 ◼   ► And even they pull prices essentially out of thin air.

00:36:46 ◼   ► So it's hard for us to know how much this stuff is worth, other than, like I said, looking

00:36:50 ◼   ► at the rest of the world and realizing we don't have it that great here.

00:36:53 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:36:54 ◼   ► But anyway, if you're remotely on the fence, get the cellular one.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Why would you even bother getting one of these phones and not get the cellular?

00:37:03 ◼   ► If you were already looking at a Series 2 and you'd never had any interest in cellular,

00:37:08 ◼   ► then get the Series 3 without cellular.

00:37:10 ◼   ► if you thought I really love to have a cellular thing but that $10 month is you know I mean you know just

00:37:16 ◼   ► Drop one of your streaming subscriptions like this is an expensive product for your expensive phone

00:37:21 ◼   ► Well, but I might add a screen a streaming subscription because stupid Apple music which will get to you in a minute

00:37:25 ◼   ► It's cellular on your wrist. That's awesome pay the ten bucks. Oh, it is awesome

00:37:32 ◼   ► That's incredible what like even for this year even for this day and age even for the wonderful technology that we have

00:37:39 ◼   ► that is still amazing.

00:37:41 ◼   ► Like how is, how, you know, this is like the Louis C.K.

00:37:44 ◼   ► like you know, sitting in a chair in the sky thing.

00:37:46 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:47 ◼   ► - How is this not amazing?

00:37:49 ◼   ► And like, you know, people are like,

00:37:51 ◼   ► I've seen some of the comments are like,

00:37:52 ◼   ► it's just a watch.

00:37:53 ◼   ► No, it's not just a watch.

00:37:55 ◼   ► It's a tiny little computer that lives on your wrist

00:37:57 ◼   ► and can talk to anywhere in the world

00:37:58 ◼   ► without any phone attacks to it now.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Like, that's incredible.

00:38:01 ◼   ► That is awesome.

00:38:02 ◼   ► - But can I run overcast on it?

00:38:04 ◼   ► 'Cause that's really what I care about.

00:38:05 ◼   ► - No, I'm like-- - Amen, brother.

00:38:06 ◼   ► - But that's a software limitation.

00:38:08 ◼   ► - That is not a hard, and we'll get to that.

00:38:11 ◼   ► I mean, so okay, let's talk about that now.

00:38:14 ◼   ► So, you know, cellular on the watch,

00:38:16 ◼   ► what is it actually good for?

00:38:19 ◼   ► And the answer so far is, you know,

00:38:21 ◼   ► the basics of lots of times we have talked about,

00:38:25 ◼   ► and other people have talked about, you know,

00:38:27 ◼   ► do you bring your phone with you with the watch?

00:38:29 ◼   ► And when the Apple would add features

00:38:31 ◼   ► like standalone music playback from the watch,

00:38:34 ◼   ► like to a Bluetooth headset,

00:38:36 ◼   ► or when they talked about adding SOS,

00:38:38 ◼   ► earlier this summer, we would, a lot of us would ask

00:38:41 ◼   ► ourselves, like, why would I not have my phone with me?

00:38:45 ◼   ► 'Cause a lot of people, like, even when they go out

00:38:46 ◼   ► for exercising, they still bring their phone with them

00:38:49 ◼   ► just in case there's an emergency or somebody has to reach

00:38:52 ◼   ► them or they need help or whatever else.

00:38:55 ◼   ► So there's a clear reason for lots of people who would

00:39:00 ◼   ► otherwise take just the watch with them somewhere.

00:39:03 ◼   ► I would love to do that, but haven't been doing that,

00:39:05 ◼   ► Not because of anything about the watch's hardware

00:39:08 ◼   ► or software, but because it just didn't have cellular itself

00:39:11 ◼   ► which I guess is hardware, but ignore that for a second.

00:39:14 ◼   ► So that was holding back a lot of people.

00:39:16 ◼   ► And so I mentioned last week, in our predictions episode,

00:39:20 ◼   ► and we had already heard the rumors last week

00:39:22 ◼   ► about the cellular watch because that was

00:39:23 ◼   ► from the HomePod leak, but we had,

00:39:27 ◼   ► I discussed the things I want in the watch

00:39:30 ◼   ► are for it to be a smarter and nicer looking timepiece.

00:39:34 ◼   ► But what most people use the watch for

00:39:36 ◼   ► is exercise notifications,

00:39:38 ◼   ► and that seems to be driving the sale.

00:39:39 ◼   ► So what Apple's doing here is very smart in that way.

00:39:42 ◼   ► It looks like they've done zero

00:39:45 ◼   ► to make it a nicer looking, better, smarter timepiece.

00:39:49 ◼   ► But this is a massive jump forward

00:39:52 ◼   ► for making it an exercise and notifications device,

00:39:55 ◼   ► because now there are significant times

00:39:58 ◼   ► when people would want to bring just the watch with them.

00:40:03 ◼   ► And those are times for which people are buying

00:40:06 ◼   ► or want to buy the Apple Watch.

00:40:08 ◼   ► So that's exercise, that's like going on the beach,

00:40:11 ◼   ► that is certain types of travel,

00:40:14 ◼   ► and let's be honest, it's mostly exercise.

00:40:16 ◼   ► But that's a big thing.

00:40:17 ◼   ► Like a lot of runners wanna run without having a phone

00:40:20 ◼   ► strapped in some weird spot on their body

00:40:22 ◼   ► or anything like that.

00:40:23 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:40:24 ◼   ► - It's a huge market.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So this is awesome for that.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Now going beyond the phone call in an emergency scenario,

00:40:32 ◼   ► I think one of the other things,

00:40:34 ◼   ► and they mentioned the Apple Music streaming,

00:40:36 ◼   ► that's cool, that should be fine.

00:40:38 ◼   ► I'm a little concerned about how that will affect

00:40:40 ◼   ► battery life, but it's probably--

00:40:42 ◼   ► - Wait, wait, you're underplaying that?

00:40:44 ◼   ► I think that's the most important thing

00:40:45 ◼   ► because when you take it when you're running,

00:40:47 ◼   ► I think a lot of people bring their phones with them,

00:40:48 ◼   ► they say, "Oh, it's in case I fall down,

00:40:50 ◼   ► "I need to call somebody,"

00:40:50 ◼   ► but really, they wanna play their music from it.

00:40:52 ◼   ► And yeah, you can play music from your watch now,

00:40:54 ◼   ► but it's a pain in the butt.

00:40:55 ◼   ► I think streaming music plus AirPods

00:40:57 ◼   ► is like the killer app that's gonna sell you there for me.

00:41:00 ◼   ► You're gonna tell them, "Oh, I can make phone calls,

00:41:01 ◼   ► that will make me feel better, but I think it is all about 40 million songs on your wrist

00:41:06 ◼   ► and AirPods.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Like that is the ultimate I want to run and listen to something.

00:41:10 ◼   ► That's why I think it should work with Spotify and all the other services.

00:41:13 ◼   ► I have no idea if it does.

00:41:14 ◼   ► I hope it's not constrained to Apple Music and I agree with your concerns about the battery

00:41:18 ◼   ► life and the streaming, but that is the killer and they show that in the ad.

00:41:22 ◼   ► Like look at me, I got AirPods and I got wrist.

00:41:24 ◼   ► It's the lightest way to listen to all the music in the world while you do some activity,

00:41:30 ◼   ► while it also tracks your workout and your pulse and everything.

00:41:32 ◼   ► That I think is the total package on this.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:41:35 ◼   ► And that's why a minute ago I alluded to, you know, I might need to get an Apple music

00:41:39 ◼   ► subscription.

00:41:40 ◼   ► I am a die-hard Spotify kind of guy.

00:41:43 ◼   ► I love Spotify for reasons that are not interesting for right now.

00:41:46 ◼   ► But the thought of being able to go for a run, like everything Marco just said, to be

00:41:50 ◼   ► able to go for a run with just my AirPods and my watch and not have to worry about dropping

00:41:54 ◼   ► my phone, but more importantly, just carrying my darn phone, that sounds amazing.

00:41:58 ◼   ► And if I, you know, twist my ankle or something like that, that I can call for help and get

00:42:03 ◼   ► help from Aaron or whomever, that's amazing.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And that is what I want.

00:42:08 ◼   ► But Casey, all this amazingness, including having all the music in the world accessible

00:42:14 ◼   ► via voice control on your little wrist computer that you can wear anywhere and have cellular

00:42:18 ◼   ► coverage is not worth 20 bucks a month, is it?

00:42:21 ◼   ► It's not worth 20 bucks a month.

00:42:22 ◼   ► He's not complaining about the price of the phone, no.

00:42:24 ◼   ► He's complaining about the price of the carrier plant.

00:42:26 ◼   ► I know.

00:42:27 ◼   ► like he's already paying for. Especially if he doesn't bring his phone, he's not having

00:42:30 ◼   ► extra network capacity. All right. No, but anyway, but the problem though, but leaving all,

00:42:34 ◼   ► even all my whining convention aside about the price of the cellular part, you know, it could be

00:42:40 ◼   ► that I'm actually in $10 to your point, Marco, $10 for the cellular, $10 for Apple Music, but,

00:42:45 ◼   ► and that's monthly, which adds up real fast. But all of this really comes down to, however,

00:42:50 ◼   ► the thing that I most enjoy listening to when I go for a run is actually podcasts. And the

00:42:57 ◼   ► And the particular podcast client catcher, whatever, of choice that I enjoy, happens

00:43:02 ◼   ► to be Overcast.

00:43:04 ◼   ► And all I want in the world now is to be able to leave my phone in my house, take my watch

00:43:10 ◼   ► and my AirPods, and listen to Overcast from anywhere.

00:43:15 ◼   ► That would be nice.

00:43:16 ◼   ► Tell me, Marco, that you're going to make this happen.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I'm trying, but I don't think I'm getting anywhere anytime soon.

00:43:22 ◼   ► I know.

00:43:23 ◼   ► it at that because I'm literally not getting anywhere yet, but I am trying. I told you,

00:43:29 ◼   ► you know, I said when I removed that feature, I'm going to try to bring it back. I am trying

00:43:33 ◼   ► to bring it back, but so far I haven't. But I'm not going to stop trying. In fact, this

00:43:38 ◼   ► has now lit a new fire under my butt because I really, really want this to be a thing that

00:43:44 ◼   ► people can do, that I can do also.

00:43:46 ◼   ► You know why that is, by the way, because I know why that is, and it has nothing to

00:43:50 ◼   ► do with me or any of your customers. It has to do with your newfound obsession. And you

00:43:53 ◼   ► don't want to bring your phone with you while you're riding your bike either, do you?

00:43:56 ◼   ► Nope, sure don't. Shouldn't be listening to podcasts while you ride your bike.

00:44:00 ◼   ► No, I actually don't. I more have been wanting this on dog walks, honestly. Biking, I'm still

00:44:05 ◼   ► -- and even though I -- Well, fair enough. Fair enough.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Even though I'm not biking on the street, I'm biking on a trail. But even on the trail,

00:44:11 ◼   ► I don't want to listen to things. I'm listening to the world around me because I'm scared

00:44:16 ◼   ► out of my mind.

00:44:17 ◼   ► But anyway, so also there are other reasons

00:44:20 ◼   ► to want a cellular watch.

00:44:22 ◼   ► So I thought of a couple.

00:44:23 ◼   ► So obviously there's a lot of app potential here.

00:44:25 ◼   ► The watch so far has been a pretty mediocre app platform,

00:44:28 ◼   ► but this changes things quite a bit

00:44:30 ◼   ► for a lot of different types of apps.

00:44:32 ◼   ► So this could be a big thing.

00:44:35 ◼   ► Right now, a lot of the watch has been held back

00:44:38 ◼   ► by the fact that the apps on the watch are pretty slow

00:44:44 ◼   ► compared to doing the same thing on your phone.

00:44:46 ◼   ► But if now more people have more reason

00:44:48 ◼   ► to not have their phone with them at all,

00:44:50 ◼   ► and all of a sudden the watch is all they have with them,

00:44:53 ◼   ► that opens up new potential for apps,

00:44:54 ◼   ► a new demand for apps.

00:44:56 ◼   ► I also thought about things like,

00:44:58 ◼   ► so they mentioned in the keynote

00:44:59 ◼   ► that if you leave your phone at home

00:45:01 ◼   ► and if you bring just your watch with you,

00:45:03 ◼   ► just your new Series 3 with LTE,

00:45:05 ◼   ► that updates your location for find friends tracking.

00:45:09 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that's right, that was really cool.

00:45:11 ◼   ► which is not only awesome for like exercisers and things,

00:45:14 ◼   ► but also I thought like,

00:45:16 ◼   ► what if you wanted to track locations of your children

00:45:19 ◼   ► and you didn't want to give them a phone,

00:45:21 ◼   ► but you maybe could give them an Apple Watch with LTE?

00:45:24 ◼   ► Like, I know this is an awfully over-engineered solution

00:45:28 ◼   ► to this problem, but I think that's actually,

00:45:31 ◼   ► that's a potential use I thought of here.

00:45:33 ◼   ► - Give your children $300 watches.

00:45:35 ◼   ► You know, I just bought a GPS tracker for my dog

00:45:37 ◼   ► and it was much cheaper,

00:45:37 ◼   ► so consider that if you wanna track your children.

00:45:39 ◼   ► - It won't always be $300.

00:45:41 ◼   ► And that's less than a phone, by the way.

00:45:43 ◼   ► - The Apple One will always be three, well,

00:45:46 ◼   ► 199, the Apple One will get.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - And $10 a month, so that kills it for Casey.

00:45:49 ◼   ► All right, anyway, so I do think this is pretty remarkable.

00:45:54 ◼   ► And they did BS the size increase a little bit, but--

00:45:58 ◼   ► - Oh, I noticed that today. - Yeah, that was awesome.

00:46:00 ◼   ► That was great judo there where--

00:46:02 ◼   ► - The case is the thickness. - The case is exactly

00:46:04 ◼   ► the same size.

00:46:05 ◼   ► I felt like they should have stopped there.

00:46:07 ◼   ► They shouldn't, but they felt like they needed to be honest.

00:46:09 ◼   ► And they said, technically speaking,

00:46:11 ◼   ► the little thing that bumps out of the case

00:46:12 ◼   ► is tiny bit bigger, but the case,

00:46:14 ◼   ► they could have just set the case the same size

00:46:16 ◼   ► and left it, because honestly,

00:46:17 ◼   ► it is bigger by a small amount,

00:46:19 ◼   ► and I bet nobody would notice,

00:46:20 ◼   ► but because they're Apple,

00:46:21 ◼   ► they have to cover their butts.

00:46:23 ◼   ► - Wasn't it like a quarter millimeter?

00:46:24 ◼   ► Like that's a pretty small difference.

00:46:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, two sheets of paper, they said.

00:46:27 ◼   ► - It was almost nothing, but to be fair,

00:46:29 ◼   ► if like Samsung had pulled something like this,

00:46:31 ◼   ► we would be all, well, nobody would pay attention

00:46:33 ◼   ► because nobody-- - No one pay attention,

00:46:34 ◼   ► but because Apple, someone would say,

00:46:36 ◼   ► "I put them next to each other

00:46:37 ◼   ► and you could see two pieces of paper with extra thickness.

00:46:40 ◼   ► No, but it is, I mean it is kind of BS though.

00:46:43 ◼   ► Just call it like you see it and say, "Oh, we made it infinitesimally smaller."

00:46:46 ◼   ► Or bigger.

00:46:47 ◼   ► The most amazing thing, I think, and I always have to remind myself of this when I look

00:46:50 ◼   ► at the Apple Watch, is that every time they talk about this, like, "Oh, you know, we've

00:46:54 ◼   ► essentially kept the watch the same size for many generations.

00:46:57 ◼   ► It's gotten a little bit thicker over time because the Series 2 was thicker than the

00:47:00 ◼   ► original Series 0, and this is thicker still, so fine."

00:47:04 ◼   ► But in general, it's the little Airstream trailer with the bulge on the bottom.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Then I remember it comes in two sizes and I think, how the hell does the smaller one work?

00:47:12 ◼   ► They have to fit all the same stuff in there.

00:47:13 ◼   ► The only thing that is smaller is the screen.

00:47:16 ◼   ► So you can get a slightly smaller battery because you have a slightly smaller screen, but everything else can't be, doesn't shrink in power usage.

00:47:21 ◼   ► It's not like, oh, the small one has a cell radio that uses less power.

00:47:24 ◼   ► If they had a cell radio that uses less power, they would use it in both of them.

00:47:27 ◼   ► So the small one is the miracle.

00:47:28 ◼   ► And maybe that also means the small one doesn't get as good battery life, which is a bummer.

00:47:32 ◼   ► - Well, that's always been the case.

00:47:34 ◼   ► The small one has always gotten noticeably worse

00:47:36 ◼   ► battery life.

00:47:37 ◼   ► - I know, but I mean, like, does it scale linearly?

00:47:39 ◼   ► 'Cause now they add LTE.

00:47:40 ◼   ► Oh, it's still the same all day battery life, blah, blah,

00:47:42 ◼   ► blah.

00:47:43 ◼   ► Is the small one even worse now?

00:47:45 ◼   ► 'Cause there's no, how, the battery must be so tiny in there

00:47:48 ◼   ► and I don't know what the minimum battery size is

00:47:50 ◼   ► to run any kind of cell radio to transmit to a radio tower

00:47:55 ◼   ► that is potentially far away from you.

00:47:57 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah, I'm reminded of that looking at the models.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Oh yeah, they make one that's like way smaller.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

00:48:06 ◼   ► - What size does Tina have?

00:48:08 ◼   ► - I think she has a small one.

00:48:09 ◼   ► - So yeah, it's a thing.

00:48:11 ◼   ► - She's gonna get one of these.

00:48:12 ◼   ► - With LTE?

00:48:13 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:48:14 ◼   ► - Are you gonna grumble about paying $10?

00:48:17 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:48:18 ◼   ► - No, I'm not gonna grumble.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I'm encouraging her to get it.

00:48:22 ◼   ► She uses it, she uses it for the intended purpose

00:48:25 ◼   ► as shown in all of Apple's ads.

00:48:27 ◼   ► So as long as they don't make a Pokemon Go app for it,

00:48:29 ◼   ► then everything will be fine.

00:48:31 ◼   ► You know, I wonder, I've heard through various reporting that the thing, the Series 3 just

00:48:38 ◼   ► feels a heck of a lot quicker, like opening apps and things like that.

00:48:42 ◼   ► I kind of wonder, and something Marco said earlier made me think of this, if it doesn't

00:48:47 ◼   ► have to like, so let's say for example I'm using Lyft for the first time in forever and

00:48:51 ◼   ► I try to do it on my watch for whatever silly reason.

00:48:54 ◼   ► It has to, if I understand things correctly anyway, it has to wake up the Lyft app on

00:48:59 ◼   ► my phone, or at the very least wake up the phone and say, "Hey, I'd like to use your

00:49:02 ◼   ► internet connection," but something has to get woken up on the phone and it needs to

00:49:06 ◼   ► communicate with the phone, blah, blah, blah.

00:49:08 ◼   ► I wonder if not only obviously the processor is so much faster on the Series 3, but I wonder

00:49:14 ◼   ► if just having its own connection to the rest of the world on these LTE models will also

00:49:20 ◼   ► dramatically increase and improve performance and just make it feel a lot snappier, even

00:49:27 ◼   ► leaving aside the tremendous gains in the processor.

00:49:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, 'cause with the watch,

00:49:32 ◼   ► like one of the reasons why the original watch

00:49:34 ◼   ► was so unbearably slow is that the whole UI of apps

00:49:37 ◼   ► was being driven effectively by the phone,

00:49:39 ◼   ► like remotely over the Bluetooth connection,

00:49:40 ◼   ► so like every tap was basically going back and forth

00:49:43 ◼   ► with the Bluetooth to the phone.

00:49:45 ◼   ► And so everything they've done to make the watch

00:49:47 ◼   ► more independent in both hardware and software

00:49:51 ◼   ► has had a noticeable increase of performance

00:49:54 ◼   ► and responsiveness because anything you're doing

00:49:56 ◼   ► to reduce those round trips is good.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Now the current watch, the Series 1 and 2,

00:50:02 ◼   ► they were pretty fast relative to the first one,

00:50:04 ◼   ► the Series 0, and I'll have a rant here in a second

00:50:07 ◼   ► about these names, but they could go over WiFi

00:50:11 ◼   ► if they wanted to, but they would frequently default

00:50:16 ◼   ► to Bluetooth to the parent phone instead of making

00:50:19 ◼   ► their own WiFi connection for, I think,

00:50:22 ◼   ► just power efficiency reasons, that WiFi used a lot

00:50:24 ◼   ► of power, so it was kind of like a last resort.

00:50:25 ◼   ► the phone or the watch would attempt to use Bluetooth

00:50:28 ◼   ► for as much as it could.

00:50:29 ◼   ► And they made a few comments about the W2,

00:50:32 ◼   ► indicating that it is not only much faster,

00:50:36 ◼   ► but much more power efficient for WiFi and Bluetooth

00:50:39 ◼   ► than the W1.

00:50:40 ◼   ► So I'm hoping that the watch will be more aggressive

00:50:45 ◼   ► at using its WiFi and then when you're out using it cellular

00:50:49 ◼   ► instead of just like trying Bluetooth first

00:50:51 ◼   ► for everything to save power,

00:50:52 ◼   ► because that will make lots of things better.

00:50:55 ◼   ► If for instance, I wanted to bring Overcast

00:50:58 ◼   ► back to the watch, one of the big problems there

00:51:00 ◼   ► was file transfer speeds.

00:51:02 ◼   ► And that's because most of the time

00:51:03 ◼   ► it was going over Bluetooth.

00:51:04 ◼   ► Even when the devices would be plugged in,

00:51:06 ◼   ► they would still often use Bluetooth to transfer the files.

00:51:08 ◼   ► That makes no sense to me, but they would.

00:51:11 ◼   ► And there was no way for me as a developer to say,

00:51:13 ◼   ► "Look, this is a big file.

00:51:15 ◼   ► "Please, for the love of God, transfer it over WiFi."

00:51:17 ◼   ► The user is literally waiting for it right now,

00:51:19 ◼   ► and it's not being transferred over WiFi.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Like, there's no way for me to do that in the API.

00:51:23 ◼   ► So I'm hoping this will help push them in that direction

00:51:26 ◼   ► of having these new chips.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Now, before I forget about the naming here,

00:51:30 ◼   ► the first watch was called Apple Watch.

00:51:33 ◼   ► The second watch was called Series 1 and 2.

00:51:35 ◼   ► - A zero index, that's great for programmers.

00:51:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, right.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - And so is the fourth watch.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - As they're introducing 3 now,

00:51:44 ◼   ► 'cause Series 1 and 2 had the same guts,

00:51:46 ◼   ► but Series 2 was waterproofed, basically.

00:51:49 ◼   ► And it was like the same chip inside,

00:51:52 ◼   ► like most of the same internals.

00:51:53 ◼   ► So it was really like series one and series one waterproof.

00:51:57 ◼   ► Like that's what they probably should have called that.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Actually they should have called them both,

00:52:02 ◼   ► series two and just retcon the first one, series one.

00:52:05 ◼   ► But instead we have series zero unofficially called,

00:52:09 ◼   ► we have the first one.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Then we have series one and two and three now.

00:52:12 ◼   ► But series two was discontinued

00:52:15 ◼   ► because the new premium model is series three.

00:52:18 ◼   ► So now we have series one and series three.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Now the casual buyer will look at that

00:52:23 ◼   ► and think Series 1 is two years old,

00:52:25 ◼   ► but in fact is only one year old.

00:52:27 ◼   ► And it's not two generations back, it's one generation back.

00:52:30 ◼   ► And if you have an original Apple Watch

00:52:33 ◼   ► and you're thinking about upgrading,

00:52:34 ◼   ► you're gonna think the Series 1 is the one you have.

00:52:37 ◼   ► So it's a very, very confusing name now.

00:52:40 ◼   ► Not the first confusing name in this event,

00:52:42 ◼   ► but a very confusing name. - Apple's not the best

00:52:43 ◼   ► at naming. (laughing)

00:52:45 ◼   ► The best thing is that the Series 3

00:52:46 ◼   ► also comes without an LTE.

00:52:48 ◼   ► So it's like, oh, Series 3 is the one with cellular.

00:52:50 ◼   ► Like, well, sort of. (laughing)

00:52:52 ◼   ► Right, exactly.

00:52:53 ◼   ► Like, these are just terrible names.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Yeah, well the good thing is they all look the same.

00:52:58 ◼   ► Like from people, they're all lined up on the table, they all look the same, so I think

00:53:01 ◼   ► the stigma of getting the lesser thing is like, well they all look the same to me.

00:53:05 ◼   ► Like they have a, like on Apple's website or something, it has a big comparison thing,

00:53:09 ◼   ► like what do you want out of your watch?

00:53:11 ◼   ► Do you care about cellular or do you not?

00:53:13 ◼   ► Do you care about waterproofing or not?

00:53:14 ◼   ► Do you care about GPS or do you not?

00:53:15 ◼   ► Do you care about a red dot on the crown or do you not?

00:53:18 ◼   ► By the way, can we talk about the red dot for a second?

00:53:21 ◼   ► Now, I love watches.

00:53:22 ◼   ► I love red.

00:53:26 ◼   ► I even love red watches, or red on watches rather.

00:53:29 ◼   ► I have a watch with red accents, it's wonderful.

00:53:32 ◼   ► I do not think this red dot looks good on any color watch

00:53:37 ◼   ► except maybe the white edition.

00:53:39 ◼   ► On every single, and I haven't seen them in person yet,

00:53:42 ◼   ► but in all the press photos and all the shop photos,

00:53:45 ◼   ► I do not think this looks good.

00:53:48 ◼   ► And again, I love red.

00:53:50 ◼   ► Everything I own is red.

00:53:51 ◼   ► I love watches.

00:53:53 ◼   ► I love red on watches.

00:53:54 ◼   ► This does not work for me.

00:53:56 ◼   ► - I think it works as long as all the rest

00:53:58 ◼   ► of the colors are neutral.

00:53:59 ◼   ► Like if it's based, that's why you like the white one.

00:54:01 ◼   ► Like you just have, everything is neutral

00:54:02 ◼   ► and the only accent of color is the red.

00:54:04 ◼   ► I mean, it doesn't clash.

00:54:05 ◼   ► I think it looks fine.

00:54:06 ◼   ► It looks okay.

00:54:07 ◼   ► I don't mind it.

00:54:09 ◼   ► But it really does limit your aesthetic choices

00:54:11 ◼   ► when you've got the stupid red dot

00:54:13 ◼   ► that you can't get rid of.

00:54:14 ◼   ► I mean, maybe it is changeable, I don't know.

00:54:15 ◼   ► Didn't I do this before with the addition

00:54:17 ◼   ► where you have different crown colors

00:54:19 ◼   ► when you bought the Hermes thing, stuff like that.

00:54:22 ◼   ► - Well, the Hermes was always, I think that was always black

00:54:24 ◼   ► but with the original gold edition line,

00:54:27 ◼   ► that would have, there was like,

00:54:28 ◼   ► if you bought the fancy little red one,

00:54:30 ◼   ► that would have the red dot.

00:54:32 ◼   ► Also, Tim Cook was spotted wearing a watch with a red,

00:54:35 ◼   ► wearing a regular steel watch with a red dot on his crown

00:54:38 ◼   ► at one of the early events for the Apple Watch.

00:54:41 ◼   ► So it was kind of like, ooh,

00:54:42 ◼   ► he gets the special one with the red dot.

00:54:43 ◼   ► And even at the time, I was like, ooh, I want that.

00:54:45 ◼   ► But now that that's offered, I'm like, ew.

00:54:47 ◼   ► I think I, I don't know.

00:54:49 ◼   ► I don't think it looks good.

00:54:50 ◼   ► Maybe it'll look better in person,

00:54:51 ◼   ► but in the pictures on the Apple website,

00:54:54 ◼   ► it does not look good.

00:54:55 ◼   ► - But it limits your choices,

00:54:56 ◼   ► because if you say you have a color scheme

00:54:58 ◼   ► that clashes with red,

00:54:59 ◼   ► like you have a particular band that you want

00:55:01 ◼   ► or like a body color,

00:55:03 ◼   ► like I want the gold aluminum with this color band,

00:55:05 ◼   ► but the red clashes with it, so it's not great.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Also, during the presentation,

00:55:10 ◼   ► I was like, did they get rid of the stainless?

00:55:11 ◼   ► 'Cause that's the one that I like the best.

00:55:13 ◼   ► That's the one that I have.

00:55:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

00:55:14 ◼   ► - I like that look the best.

00:55:15 ◼   ► I don't like the aluminum at all, but it's still there.

00:55:17 ◼   ► They have limited choices.

00:55:19 ◼   ► I saw you can only get it with the Milanese,

00:55:22 ◼   ► with the white sport, but like whatever.

00:55:24 ◼   ► They didn't change the size of,

00:55:25 ◼   ► they didn't change the band compatibility.

00:55:27 ◼   ► So if I was to get one of these, which I'm not,

00:55:29 ◼   ► I would just get the stainless at tremendous expense

00:55:31 ◼   ► and then not use the white things

00:55:32 ◼   ► and use one of my other straps with it.

00:55:34 ◼   ► - I do not take the red dot at all.

00:55:39 ◼   ► I think it's really terrible.

00:55:40 ◼   ► And I don't know, there's a store online,

00:55:45 ◼   ► watchdots.com, and they are not a sponsor.

00:55:48 ◼   ► I have no idea if their product is any good or not.

00:55:50 ◼   ► However, I will seriously consider, I'm not kidding.

00:55:55 ◼   ► I will consider putting a sticker over it.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Something like completely muted.

00:55:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's that simple.

00:56:00 ◼   ► It's like, so you can tell you have the fancy one.

00:56:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know, whatever.

00:56:04 ◼   ► But yeah, so now, see Marco, now I'm in $10 a month

00:56:09 ◼   ► for the stupid cellular, and then $10 a month

00:56:12 ◼   ► potentially for Apple Music,

00:56:13 ◼   ► because it won't work with Spotify the way I want.

00:56:15 ◼   ► And then $10 once for the stupid watch.

00:56:18 ◼   ► I can't even get this out.

00:56:19 ◼   ► It's a straight face.

00:56:20 ◼   ► Yeah, you're not selling this.

00:56:23 ◼   ► So before we leave the topic of the watch, which we should,

00:56:26 ◼   ► I was trying to remember,

00:56:27 ◼   ► like way back when we first talked about the watch,

00:56:31 ◼   ► I don't remember it was like, after it was announced,

00:56:34 ◼   ► it must have been after it was announced,

00:56:34 ◼   ► 'cause before we had just had all sorts of what that is.

00:56:36 ◼   ► But after the watch was announced,

00:56:38 ◼   ► talking about it on one of the shows,

00:56:41 ◼   ► and I remember being pretty vehement about the fact that

00:56:45 ◼   ► even though what you see here is a watch that does the things that Apple says it

00:56:49 ◼   ► does, this thing is gonna have cellular. It's only a matter of time. And I thought

00:56:52 ◼   ► I said by the fourth watch maybe it will have cellular but maybe I'm

00:56:55 ◼   ► misremembering but either way like when the watch was introduced it was so clear

00:57:00 ◼   ► that this thing is going to have cellular and live on its own and the only

00:57:03 ◼   ► reason it doesn't is because they literally could not do that and I think

00:57:07 ◼   ► they did it on a pretty pretty good schedule like it it hasn't been that

00:57:12 ◼   ► long since the watch was reduced and they already got cellular into it. And they did

00:57:15 ◼   ► that by doing something that we had previously described as very "unapple-like," which is

00:57:22 ◼   ► don't actually make it thinner year after year. Don't actually change the case. Keep

00:57:25 ◼   ► everything gigantic, you know, Airstream Trail on your wrist and reap the benefits of that

00:57:32 ◼   ► by saying if we keep it the same size, we can get to where we know we're going, which

00:57:38 ◼   ► is cell access on our wrist, right? We can get there faster. They could have shrunk it

00:57:42 ◼   ► and kept similar functionality, but instead of shrinking it, what they did is add battery

00:57:46 ◼   ► life, let's add GPS, let's add LTE. Now, finally, in a couple years, in the next major revision,

00:57:52 ◼   ► now they can shrink because there's probably not that much more stuff they're going to

00:57:56 ◼   ► stick in there, like in terms of tech-wise, maybe some cameras, right? And maybe better

00:58:01 ◼   ► microphones and speakers. But now advancements in technologies don't have to be spent entirely

00:58:06 ◼   ► on adding important features because they finally got the feature set that the watch

00:58:09 ◼   ► always wanted to have.

00:58:10 ◼   ► It is, you know, it's kind of like when the iPod left the Nest and no longer needed to

00:58:14 ◼   ► be connected to your Mac to like initialize it or whatever.

00:58:17 ◼   ► I think the phone, same thing, didn't you have to hook up the phone to your Mac in the

00:58:20 ◼   ► beginning too?

00:58:21 ◼   ► Like all these devices want to be free of the tethers of their larger devices and the

00:58:25 ◼   ► watch is finally free.

00:58:26 ◼   ► It is no longer, you know, I guess it's still tied to your phone's cell plan, but it is

00:58:31 ◼   ► as free as it can be in the world.

00:58:33 ◼   ► You can leave your phone at home, go out with your watch, and it does all the magic things

00:58:36 ◼   ► that we always wanted it to do.

00:58:38 ◼   ► So really quick before we move off, Marco, are you going to buy one?

00:58:43 ◼   ► And if so, is it going to be pretty much exclusively for testing or do you expect to use it from

00:58:47 ◼   ► time to time?

00:58:48 ◼   ► Both.

00:58:49 ◼   ► I use the watch now fairly regularly, but I'm not wearing it all day every day.

00:58:55 ◼   ► I prefer to take it when I'm, as I said earlier, when I'm going on dog walks or when I'm biking.

00:59:00 ◼   ► I like to at least track my distance,

00:59:03 ◼   ► and at least use it as a remote control

00:59:06 ◼   ► for the overcast app on my phone,

00:59:08 ◼   ► even though I can't do local playback very well yet.

00:59:10 ◼   ► Yeah, so I am gonna buy this because I think

00:59:14 ◼   ► I wanna see what I can do as a developer

00:59:17 ◼   ► with 3G on the watch, or LTE, excuse me,

00:59:20 ◼   ► with LTE on the watch.

00:59:21 ◼   ► - Okay, so which one do you think you'll get?

00:59:23 ◼   ► - I'm probably gonna get steel,

00:59:26 ◼   ► and since I've been getting the polished steel

00:59:28 ◼   ► for the last two watches,

00:59:30 ◼   ► but I think maybe this time I'll go black DLC steel.

00:59:34 ◼   ► - Oh, you fancy.

00:59:35 ◼   ► That's one we all wanted way back

00:59:36 ◼   ► when the first one came out, isn't it?

00:59:37 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:59:38 ◼   ► - And then--

00:59:39 ◼   ► - 'Cause I already have the black bracelet.

00:59:40 ◼   ► I bought the bracelet separately.

00:59:42 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:59:43 ◼   ► - And I liked the way the black bracelet looked

00:59:44 ◼   ► with the contrast of the steel before,

00:59:47 ◼   ► but now that I've become more of a watch nerd,

00:59:48 ◼   ► the metal mismatch bothers me.

00:59:51 ◼   ► And I've been wearing it more

00:59:52 ◼   ► on the Rainbow Sportband anyway,

00:59:54 ◼   ► so it's less of a problem.

00:59:55 ◼   ► But I wanna try the black this time,

00:59:59 ◼   ► 'cause I do like, like the link bracelet that Apple makes

01:00:03 ◼   ► is one of the best link bracelets in the world ever.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Like it doesn't have micro-adjustment,

01:00:10 ◼   ► which is unfortunate, but besides that one shortcoming,

01:00:13 ◼   ► it's amazing, like it's a really, really good bracelet.

01:00:17 ◼   ► So I wouldn't mind getting more usage out of it.

01:00:20 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Jon, what's your plan?

01:00:23 ◼   ► - I'm not getting one because I never wear my watch,

01:00:25 ◼   ► which is a shame, I would really like to have one,

01:00:27 ◼   ► it seems cool, but no.

01:00:29 ◼   ► Well, then you can I wouldn't wear it because I would love to be able to have a thing that's on my wrist that you

01:00:33 ◼   ► know, I wear I wear my watch like three times a year like when I'm traveling when I'm walking around city streets at WWC when

01:00:39 ◼   ► I'm on vacation in London and for those times it's fun to do it, but

01:00:43 ◼   ► that the rest of the year I don't wear it just sits on top of my dresser and if I got this new one I

01:00:47 ◼   ► would wear it the same amount of time and

01:00:49 ◼   ► and it would be cool to have cell access on my wrist, but

01:00:52 ◼   ► Maybe maybe I could be convinced if overcast works on it

01:00:56 ◼   ► But I don't know what the context is.

01:00:59 ◼   ► I would still bring my phone with me to work.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Anyway, it's expensive, I'm not gonna get it.

01:01:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:05 ◼   ► 'Cause the only one I want is the $600 steel one,

01:01:09 ◼   ► and it's like, yeesh.

01:01:11 ◼   ► - And I would say too, for anybody who,

01:01:13 ◼   ► like you might be waiting for Overcast

01:01:15 ◼   ► before they get one, or might be buying one

01:01:17 ◼   ► hoping for Overcast to work well on it.

01:01:19 ◼   ► - Don't hold your breath.

01:01:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would say, because I have not made

01:01:23 ◼   ► any progress on that front yet,

01:01:25 ◼   ► I can't tell you when I'll be able to re-add that feature

01:01:28 ◼   ► or even if I'll ever be able to re-add that feature.

01:01:30 ◼   ► So don't make this decision for Overcast.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Make this decision for other reasons now

01:01:35 ◼   ► and if down the road Overcast does end up

01:01:37 ◼   ► getting the support again, by all means reconsider it then.

01:01:40 ◼   ► But that might be the next watch, I don't even know.

01:01:43 ◼   ► I don't know when it's gonna happen.

01:01:44 ◼   ► - I would absolutely love to get the gray ceramic case

01:01:49 ◼   ► with the gray black sports band,

01:01:50 ◼   ► but at $1,300 there's no freaking way that's happening.

01:01:53 ◼   ► So instead I will be getting the... I'm pretty sure I'm going to leave behind the space gray, even though I love it,

01:01:59 ◼   ► but I want to have the ability to use basically any other color band.

01:02:05 ◼   ► So instead I believe I'm going to get the aluminum, which does not bother me at all,

01:02:10 ◼   ► the aluminum one with... what is it? Like the fog white or something along those lines.

01:02:15 ◼   ► Basically the default cellular

01:02:19 ◼   ► sports, whatever, aluminum watch. And I will be getting one of those. Erin will likely

01:02:25 ◼   ► be getting the same thing, but I don't think she's going to want anything to do with cellular,

01:02:30 ◼   ► particularly once I explain to her it is a non-zero cost per month. Even a dollar, she'd

01:02:34 ◼   ► probably be like, "Ah, I don't need that." But yeah, that is my plan. So I will be waking

01:02:38 ◼   ► up at three in the morning because the world has to revolve around California. And I'll

01:02:43 ◼   ► be waking up at three in the morning to place my order for my two new Apple watches. And

01:02:48 ◼   ► That is just the beginning of me going broke this year.

01:02:51 ◼   ► - I will say also though, if it was my primary watch

01:02:54 ◼   ► that I wore most of or all of every day,

01:02:57 ◼   ► that white ceramic I still think

01:02:58 ◼   ► is one of the best looking options in the whole lineup,

01:03:01 ◼   ► if not the best looking option.

01:03:02 ◼   ► And especially if you're gonna get the red dot,

01:03:05 ◼   ► I would totally splurge for the white ceramic

01:03:07 ◼   ► if it was my primary watch.

01:03:09 ◼   ► - That's a lot of money.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Gosh, is that a lot of money.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - It is, it's stupid, but that's how watches work.

01:03:14 ◼   ► When you like the way something looks,

01:03:15 ◼   ► you're like, "Yes, set this money on fire.

01:03:17 ◼   ► I need to have that on my wrist.

01:03:19 ◼   ► Like, so if you don't miss the extra money,

01:03:21 ◼   ► the white ceramic is a pretty awesome option.

01:03:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know, $400 for the,

01:03:26 ◼   ► or I guess it would be $430 with the LTE?

01:03:29 ◼   ► I don't have it in front of me, something like that though.

01:03:32 ◼   ► Yeah, $430, so yeah, the silver aluminum case

01:03:35 ◼   ► with fog sport band is what I intend to get.

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01:05:42 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:05:44 ◼   ► - Now, we should move on to Apple TV.

01:05:47 ◼   ► There's new Apple TV, 4K with HDR.

01:05:50 ◼   ► There's still two storage tiers.

01:05:52 ◼   ► The remote, which I won't mention out loud

01:05:55 ◼   ► so I don't get flamed, really isn't that bad,

01:05:58 ◼   ► is not changed with the exception of a raised loop

01:06:01 ◼   ► around the menu button.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Other than that, it's all basically the same old stuff.

01:06:05 ◼   ► No USB-C ports.

01:06:07 ◼   ► I don't think any of us really care that much,

01:06:10 ◼   ► so let's move on.

01:06:10 ◼   ► - I cannot believe. - I care.

01:06:12 ◼   ► I care.

01:06:13 ◼   ► - Of all, okay, so similar to like,

01:06:15 ◼   ► when I said earlier how like,

01:06:17 ◼   ► the one thing people want in an Apple retail store

01:06:19 ◼   ► is like faster genius appointments and stuff.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Like the one thing we want with the new Apple TV--

01:06:25 ◼   ► - That's not true. - Is a better remote.

01:06:28 ◼   ► - Not all of us. - A redesign remote,

01:06:29 ◼   ► because this remote is terrible.

01:06:31 ◼   ► And I would also say, I think high on the list

01:06:34 ◼   ► of what people would want with the Apple TV,

01:06:35 ◼   ► it would be a lower entry price.

01:06:38 ◼   ► And we got neither of those.

01:06:40 ◼   ► We got, the most insulting part is that

01:06:42 ◼   ► they did change the remote.

01:06:44 ◼   ► So like, they made a change at all,

01:06:47 ◼   ► but it appears that it's only different

01:06:51 ◼   ► in that they added a white circle around the menu button.

01:06:54 ◼   ► That maybe there's other internal changes,

01:06:56 ◼   ► I don't think anybody knows yet.

01:06:59 ◼   ► I hope there's more to it than that,

01:07:01 ◼   ► but it is still a small, skinny rectangle

01:07:05 ◼   ► that is symmetrical in most ways

01:07:07 ◼   ► that you will still fall off your couch cushion

01:07:11 ◼   ► 'cause it has a smooth back.

01:07:12 ◼   ► It will still slip between your couch cushion

01:07:14 ◼   ► and get lost because it's tiny and thin.

01:07:16 ◼   ► It is still too small for good ergonomics.

01:07:18 ◼   ► It still relies on an imprecise,

01:07:19 ◼   ► annoyingly accidentally inputted touchpad.

01:07:22 ◼   ► It is still hard to tell which way is up in the dark.

01:07:24 ◼   ► I don't understand how the people in charge at Apple

01:07:32 ◼   ► could go through the trouble of changing the Apple TV at all

01:07:36 ◼   ► look at that remote and decide, this is fine,

01:07:39 ◼   ► we don't have to change this.

01:07:39 ◼   ► Like, are they listening to anybody, to any customers?

01:07:44 ◼   ► Like, does what we think matter at all?

01:07:46 ◼   ► Have they lost their sense of taste

01:07:48 ◼   ► for shipping that in the first place?

01:07:50 ◼   ► And then two years later, or however long it's been,

01:07:52 ◼   ► shipping it almost identically again?

01:07:55 ◼   ► - I was reminded of when you mentioned,

01:07:57 ◼   ► as talking about the remote,

01:08:00 ◼   ► you started talking about the new remote

01:08:01 ◼   ► where you were going to get, as if it was a done deal,

01:08:05 ◼   ► And it was just a question of what the new remote would be like.

01:08:08 ◼   ► And I was feeling particularly snarky and I laughed and I said, "Wait a second, you

01:08:11 ◼   ► think there's going to be a new remote?"

01:08:12 ◼   ► I am so upset to have been right.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Because honestly, I thought there was going to be one too.

01:08:16 ◼   ► But I was in a snarky mood of being like, "Oh, you think they're going to change the

01:08:20 ◼   ► remote?"

01:08:21 ◼   ► We were all so confident.

01:08:22 ◼   ► It's like, how could they not change it?

01:08:23 ◼   ► Like you said, how could they not?

01:08:24 ◼   ► It doesn't need that much.

01:08:26 ◼   ► We need 4K, right?

01:08:28 ◼   ► You know, update the hardware.

01:08:30 ◼   ► They did gig Ethernet.

01:08:31 ◼   ► Like, that was another big one in terms of hardware.

01:08:33 ◼   ► Like you got to do that.

01:08:35 ◼   ► - It's about time, it's 2017, I mean come on.

01:08:38 ◼   ► - Right, and then--

01:08:39 ◼   ► - We're celebrating that they finally upgraded

01:08:40 ◼   ► the 10100 port on the old one.

01:08:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, and then the new remote--

01:08:46 ◼   ► - Was that the only device in history

01:08:48 ◼   ► that had a USB-C port and a 10100 ethernet port?

01:08:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, probably.

01:08:52 ◼   ► Yeah, but like, yeah, it just,

01:08:56 ◼   ► they didn't have time to redo the remote,

01:09:00 ◼   ► so all they could do was,

01:09:01 ◼   ► this is basically the equivalent of the little bump

01:09:03 ◼   ► the iMac Puck mouse where it's like, "Well, we're going to design a new mouse eventually."

01:09:08 ◼   ► In 2001, everyone will get an Apology mouse at the Macworld Expo.

01:09:13 ◼   ► But in the meantime, is there something we can do for the existing mouse to make it so

01:09:16 ◼   ► that people can tell which end is up?

01:09:17 ◼   ► How about we put a little divot in the button?

01:09:21 ◼   ► And so this is like, I don't even know, having not seen one of these in person, is the white

01:09:25 ◼   ► ring even something that you can feel?

01:09:27 ◼   ► Never mind that feeling around the remote.

01:09:28 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure it is.

01:09:29 ◼   ► Feeling around the remote is death because if you accidentally swipe the touchpad, then

01:09:32 ◼   ► and you have to remember the correct incantation

01:09:34 ◼   ► to not cause the play head to start playing in that position

01:09:38 ◼   ► or you can just like not touch it and put it down

01:09:40 ◼   ► and say don't touch it, it'll go away eventually

01:09:41 ◼   ► and it won't accept my input.

01:09:43 ◼   ► I hate that remote so much and they need to fix it

01:09:45 ◼   ► and it's terrible.

01:09:46 ◼   ► - Honestly, I want to see Apple

01:09:49 ◼   ► with new industrial design leadership.

01:09:52 ◼   ► - Oh God, here we go.

01:09:54 ◼   ► - I wanna see someone else designing these things.

01:09:56 ◼   ► The current team is out of ideas

01:09:58 ◼   ► and is prioritizing things that I don't think

01:10:01 ◼   ► are fully in line with what customers actually want.

01:10:05 ◼   ► Put someone else on these kinds of decisions

01:10:07 ◼   ► because this needs editing, this needs new leadership.

01:10:12 ◼   ► Nobody should look at that remote and say,

01:10:13 ◼   ► "That's so good, we should ship another one."

01:10:18 ◼   ► - I don't agree at all.

01:10:19 ◼   ► So I've blown all credibility by

01:10:22 ◼   ► somewhat seriously whining about a $10 a month fee.

01:10:26 ◼   ► But I don't, the things that the three of us care about

01:10:31 ◼   ► are not the things that most people care about.

01:10:33 ◼   ► And I personally don't really have a problem

01:10:38 ◼   ► with the remote.

01:10:40 ◼   ► Do I think it's stellar?

01:10:40 ◼   ► No, I don't.

01:10:41 ◼   ► Do I think it's amazing?

01:10:42 ◼   ► No, I don't.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Have I somehow stumbled into asking

01:10:45 ◼   ► and answering my own questions?

01:10:46 ◼   ► Yes, I have.

01:10:47 ◼   ► So I gotta get off this treadmill.

01:10:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:10:50 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not trying to say you're wrong by any means.

01:10:52 ◼   ► I'm not saying that this is a shining example

01:10:54 ◼   ► of good design, but it's functional

01:10:57 ◼   ► and it works just fine for me.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And sometimes I think it's upside, it's sufficient.

01:11:02 ◼   ► - It's a low bar, it's a low bar.

01:11:03 ◼   ► It should be better than it is, that's what we're saying.

01:11:05 ◼   ► - It should be, yes, yes, it should.

01:11:06 ◼   ► - It looks really good, right?

01:11:08 ◼   ► But that's the only real thing it's got going for it.

01:11:10 ◼   ► It's a bad remote, right?

01:11:11 ◼   ► And we all have bad remotes in our life.

01:11:13 ◼   ► And more importantly than it being a bad remote,

01:11:15 ◼   ► I think the most important thing about this remote

01:11:18 ◼   ► is that it's difficult for people to use.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Forget about tech nerds, people listening to tech podcasts,

01:11:24 ◼   ► people who are Apple enthusiasts who've been following

01:11:29 ◼   ► company forever who care about the industrial design and everything, you give this remote

01:11:32 ◼   ► to anybody, any plain old person off the street, anybody, and it is difficult for them to use

01:11:38 ◼   ► successfully. They have accidental inputs, it's hard for them to swipe upward and right

01:11:43 ◼   ► and left with their thumbs, it's hard to tell what's activated on the screen, it's not an

01:11:49 ◼   ► easy remote to use. In many ways, the five-way was easier, even though it had a stupid circle

01:11:55 ◼   ► that made it harder to tell when you were hitting up and down and left and right.

01:11:57 ◼   ► And all these things, all remotes are difficult to use. You're seeing anybody

01:12:01 ◼   ► using any kind of remote they're difficult to use. But this remote in particular, I feel like,

01:12:06 ◼   ► does not have good usability in the old-fashioned sense of the world in terms of how successful are

01:12:10 ◼   ► people, how confident are they when using it, or do they feel like it's a thing that they have to

01:12:15 ◼   ► be careful touching because something could go wrong. I think people like us use this remote

01:12:20 ◼   ► better than most people because we know all the nuances of how it works.

01:12:24 ◼   ► We know how we have to approach it and how to work it.

01:12:26 ◼   ► We have lots of experience swiping our fingers on things.

01:12:29 ◼   ► We do it all day on our magic mice and iOS devices using our sophisticated

01:12:33 ◼   ► gestures instead of just, you know, multitasking gestures and swiping from

01:12:36 ◼   ► edge and all sorts of things that regular people don't know how to do because they

01:12:40 ◼   ► don't care about this stuff that much.

01:12:41 ◼   ► So I think the, this remote is more usable to us.

01:12:46 ◼   ► We're just complaining about it more because we're picky and we want more of

01:12:48 ◼   ► Apple. I just think this is this is a this remote it falls down in in all ways

01:12:56 ◼   ► as a for what it's actually supposed to do and because we you know we in this

01:13:03 ◼   ► podcast and we want Apple to be you know the best at everything feel like you get

01:13:07 ◼   ► it wrong a couple times fine learn from your stakes revised do better this was

01:13:11 ◼   ► their chance to do better after a very long break and they put a ringer on the

01:13:13 ◼   ► menu button and so everyone is everyone is angry and I think justifiably so but

01:13:18 ◼   ► But, you know, there's always,

01:13:22 ◼   ► I was gonna say there's always next year,

01:13:23 ◼   ► but there's always three years from now.

01:13:27 ◼   ► - What annoys me so much about the Apple TV

01:13:29 ◼   ► is not that it's worse than the competition.

01:13:32 ◼   ► The sad thing is that it's better than the competition.

01:13:34 ◼   ► But it really, it could be so much better than it is.

01:13:39 ◼   ► It has always been an afterthought.

01:13:41 ◼   ► It has always been the lowest of low priorities

01:13:44 ◼   ► over things like the Mac Mini, I guess.

01:13:46 ◼   ► but it could be so much better,

01:13:50 ◼   ► and it's just so mediocre,

01:13:51 ◼   ► and it seems like every time they do something new to it,

01:13:54 ◼   ► either hardware or software,

01:13:56 ◼   ► it's just two steps forward, one step back.

01:13:58 ◼   ► It's just, things about it are so frustrating,

01:14:01 ◼   ► and I think all three of us are heavy users of the Apple TV.

01:14:06 ◼   ► For us, it is our only TV video source.

01:14:09 ◼   ► The only things we ever do on our TV

01:14:11 ◼   ► are Apple TV or the Switch.

01:14:13 ◼   ► That's it.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I just want this product to be so much better than it is,

01:14:17 ◼   ► and I don't think my demands are that high

01:14:20 ◼   ► for what I expect from a good product in this area.

01:14:23 ◼   ► And it just, it fails to meet them so often,

01:14:26 ◼   ► and it's very frustrating.

01:14:27 ◼   ► - So a couple more quickies before I move on with this,

01:14:30 ◼   ► 'cause we do need to move off.

01:14:32 ◼   ► One good thing about the Apple TV,

01:14:33 ◼   ► aside from it being 4K and supporting HDR

01:14:35 ◼   ► and all the HDR standards,

01:14:36 ◼   ► is their announcement of their 4K media pricing,

01:14:40 ◼   ► which is the same as HD and your HDs all get upgraded.

01:14:42 ◼   ► So we always complain about any cues deal making or whatever,

01:14:45 ◼   ► but this is a pretty damn good deal.

01:14:47 ◼   ► Same price as HD is good.

01:14:49 ◼   ► And free upgrades of all your HD content is crazy good.

01:14:52 ◼   ► So--

01:14:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was really surprised by that.

01:14:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, as chat room just panned out,

01:14:57 ◼   ► except for Disney asterisk yada yada yada.

01:14:59 ◼   ► But if that deal is even remotely as real

01:15:02 ◼   ► as it was announced on stage,

01:15:04 ◼   ► that is a great deal for people.

01:15:06 ◼   ► And it almost makes up for being locked into their ecosystem

01:15:09 ◼   ► being forced to use this remote to,

01:15:11 ◼   ► or like I said, you don't have to use your remote.

01:15:12 ◼   ► you can get another remote, train it, and blah blah blah.

01:15:13 ◼   ► Anyway, so that's good.

01:15:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's awesome.

01:15:16 ◼   ► That, like, to give them full credit on the Apple TV,

01:15:19 ◼   ► like, the 4K content deals with the exception of Disney

01:15:23 ◼   ► are awesome.

01:15:24 ◼   ► That is unexpected.

01:15:25 ◼   ► I am very, very happy with that.

01:15:27 ◼   ► I'm even more happy about the 4K screensaver remaster.

01:15:30 ◼   ► I think that's a big deal. - It's your favorite feature,

01:15:32 ◼   ► and that comes for free.

01:15:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:15:34 ◼   ► - You don't have to pay for it.

01:15:35 ◼   ► $10 a month for the screensaver, you'd pay it.

01:15:36 ◼   ► - I still don't know if I'm supposed to get

01:15:38 ◼   ► the 32 or 64 gigabyte model,

01:15:40 ◼   ► which for some reason still exist.

01:15:43 ◼   ► - I know people question that,

01:15:44 ◼   ► but it's for games and for video caching.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Will your movie be cached on that?

01:15:49 ◼   ► There's some automatic storage management,

01:15:51 ◼   ► and the automatic storage management has an awareness

01:15:53 ◼   ► of how much storage there is in the device,

01:15:55 ◼   ► and so if you wanna have a higher chance

01:15:56 ◼   ► of playing that movie or still being downloaded

01:15:58 ◼   ► from the last time you played it three weeks,

01:15:59 ◼   ► you go get the 64.

01:16:01 ◼   ► I'm getting the 64, that's what I'm getting.

01:16:02 ◼   ► - It's $20 difference.

01:16:04 ◼   ► Why are these two separate models?

01:16:07 ◼   ► - That's two months of your watch.

01:16:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:16:10 ◼   ► - I'm a 4.1 with Apple Music.

01:16:12 ◼   ► I don't understand, okay, it seems like

01:16:14 ◼   ► when the Apple TV 4 came out,

01:16:16 ◼   ► whenever it was two, three years ago,

01:16:17 ◼   ► the two big puzzling things about it were like,

01:16:21 ◼   ► oh, why are there two different storage tiers?

01:16:23 ◼   ► They never really explained why you'd need more storage.

01:16:27 ◼   ► It's not really exposed to the user at all in the interface,

01:16:30 ◼   ► and it just kind of seemed like, why are there two?

01:16:32 ◼   ► Why does that exist?

01:16:33 ◼   ► And then the other thing was why this remote sucks.

01:16:35 ◼   ► And with this one, they fixed neither of those problems.

01:16:37 ◼   ► They have not fixed their remote,

01:16:39 ◼   ► and we still have two differently priced models,

01:16:42 ◼   ► although they're closer in price.

01:16:44 ◼   ► I believe it was a $50 difference before.

01:16:46 ◼   ► Now it's a $20 difference.

01:16:48 ◼   ► The old one didn't get any cheaper.

01:16:50 ◼   ► The new ones are more expensive.

01:16:52 ◼   ► This is a theme of the Apple event.

01:16:54 ◼   ► The new ones are more expensive.

01:16:56 ◼   ► This is fine for people like me

01:16:57 ◼   ► who are gonna buy every Apple TV anyway

01:16:59 ◼   ► because we use it so heavily.

01:17:01 ◼   ► I don't see this really expanding their market much though

01:17:04 ◼   ► because everyone else in the set-top box business like this

01:17:09 ◼   ► is just killing them on price and features.

01:17:12 ◼   ► You know, other, like Amazon or Roku have 4K boxes

01:17:16 ◼   ► for $100 or less, and Apple's is now 180

01:17:20 ◼   ► for the small tier, or 200 for the big one.

01:17:23 ◼   ► The old one is still 150, where it launched two years ago.

01:17:26 ◼   ► I don't understand why.

01:17:28 ◼   ► I think that's a mistake, and whatever is causing them

01:17:31 ◼   ► to keep the price high, even on the old low-end one,

01:17:35 ◼   ► I gotta imagine there's cost in the market share.

01:17:38 ◼   ► And I don't know if that calculus is right.

01:17:41 ◼   ► - They're the premium brand.

01:17:42 ◼   ► I don't mind the pricing,

01:17:43 ◼   ► especially in the grand scheme of things.

01:17:44 ◼   ► The streaming services that you're gonna pay for

01:17:46 ◼   ► to watch on the thing are gonna swamp the price

01:17:49 ◼   ► of this device pretty quickly.

01:17:50 ◼   ► But this is a catch-up device.

01:17:52 ◼   ► Like, there was a bunch of stories in the show notes

01:17:55 ◼   ► for many weeks about people complaining

01:17:58 ◼   ► how behind the Apple TV is.

01:17:59 ◼   ► This is a catch-up device.

01:18:00 ◼   ► It's catch up on 4K, it's catch up on all the other things they're adding, and maybe

01:18:03 ◼   ► it's a little bit ahead in some areas in terms of the content deals or the 4K pricing or

01:18:08 ◼   ► the live sports and live news.

01:18:11 ◼   ► I'm not aware of what all the offerings are.

01:18:13 ◼   ► I guess you got YouTube TV and a bunch of other stuff like that.

01:18:15 ◼   ► It's behind on Amazon Video and YouTube TV, which apparently aren't still on this thing.

01:18:22 ◼   ► But this is basically a catch-up product, but it's a good catch-up product.

01:18:24 ◼   ► So I think they maintain their position.

01:18:26 ◼   ► They are the premium brand because they have fancy expensive hardware and their interface

01:18:31 ◼   ► looks pretty nice and their remote looks nice as long as you don't touch it.

01:18:36 ◼   ► People had a lot of content in iTunes and so this was the Keep the Lights On product

01:18:43 ◼   ► and they did it.

01:18:44 ◼   ► I like the fact that they offered the big one because this is what I always ask for,

01:18:49 ◼   ► make one that has more stuff that's really expensive.

01:18:53 ◼   ► Most people shouldn't buy it, but the people who care about it will buy it if there is

01:18:57 ◼   ► some benefit.

01:18:58 ◼   ► And I think there is, because every once in a while I will play a movie that the kids

01:19:01 ◼   ► watched three weeks ago and it's gone and it has to re-download and if the network is

01:19:04 ◼   ► wonky or if iTunes is wonky, it'll spin for a while and I would rather just have it play.

01:19:09 ◼   ► It would be great if I could actually pin movies to the thing and say just keep it on

01:19:12 ◼   ► here, but anyway.

01:19:13 ◼   ► So I'm getting this, we do have to move on, but two quick questions for the people out

01:19:17 ◼   ► there listening.

01:19:18 ◼   ► Does this have a fan?

01:19:19 ◼   ► I asked people, no one told me.

01:19:20 ◼   ► It has holes in the bottom of it that the other one didn't have, but those could just

01:19:23 ◼   ► be for passive cooling, I have no idea.

01:19:25 ◼   ► I would love to know if this thing has a fan in it.

01:19:27 ◼   ► If it does, I suspect it'll be as quiet as the one in the Tower airport base station,

01:19:33 ◼   ► which is so quiet I literally cannot hear it unless I put my ear up to it.

01:19:36 ◼   ► I'm just curious if it has a fan.

01:19:37 ◼   ► Probably not, because it's the same chip as an iPad, and this is bigger than an iPad,

01:19:41 ◼   ► but who knows?

01:19:42 ◼   ► And then the other question is, does this do 24 frames per second cadence?

01:19:47 ◼   ► it show 24 frames per second video where it shows each of the 24 frames for the same amount

01:19:51 ◼   ► of time, which is what you need to do to show a movie shot in 24 frames per second without

01:19:56 ◼   ► screwing it up.

01:19:58 ◼   ► And no Apple TV that has existed before could do this, except for maybe the one that ran

01:20:03 ◼   ► Mac OS X Tiger.

01:20:05 ◼   ► That could probably do it.

01:20:06 ◼   ► I forget.

01:20:07 ◼   ► I don't know what the video output was like on that.

01:20:08 ◼   ► But anyway, none of the little black pucks can show 24 frames per second video showing

01:20:11 ◼   ► each of the frames for an equal amount of time.

01:20:13 ◼   ► I don't know if this one can either.

01:20:15 ◼   ► I asked a bunch of people.

01:20:16 ◼   ► no answer. So next week, Apple people who work on Apple TV, tell me, 24 frames per second

01:20:20 ◼   ► cadence and is there a fan?

01:20:23 ◼   ► So you said both of you guys are going to be getting one?

01:20:26 ◼   ► Yep.

01:20:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Even though, do you, both of you have 4K TVs or neither of you?

01:20:32 ◼   ► I don't.

01:20:33 ◼   ► I do and I'm getting it for that reason, but I'm also really interested to see how fast

01:20:37 ◼   ► that new CPU is. The current Apple TV is kind of inexplicably slow during some common interactions

01:20:43 ◼   ► that I have. So any CPU speed improvement would be welcome if that isn't the bottleneck,

01:20:50 ◼   ► if it's not some kind of weird software thing. And going from the A8 in the current one,

01:20:56 ◼   ► going from that, whatever it is, to the A10X, that's a pretty big jump. They have really

01:21:02 ◼   ► spec'd this new one well. I still don't know why it comes in two storage capacities that

01:21:07 ◼   ► are $20 different and why the old one is not cheaper, but they have spec'd this one well.

01:21:12 ◼   ► So I hope it's a lot faster.

01:21:15 ◼   ► So I would say even if you don't have a 4K TV,

01:21:17 ◼   ► it might be worth it for some people just for that.

01:21:20 ◼   ► Also because the old one didn't get cheaper,

01:21:23 ◼   ► it's still 150, and this one's 180,

01:21:27 ◼   ► just get this one for future proofing.

01:21:28 ◼   ► If you're buying new today,

01:21:31 ◼   ► if you already have a fourth gen,

01:21:33 ◼   ► maybe the upgrade is a bit of an iffy question

01:21:36 ◼   ► if you don't have a 4K TV.

01:21:37 ◼   ► But if you're buying a new one, get the 4K one,

01:21:40 ◼   ► because it'll be probably useful for longer.

01:21:43 ◼   ► - And so John, why are you getting it then?

01:21:45 ◼   ► Just because it's better?

01:21:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's better.

01:21:48 ◼   ► It's faster.

01:21:50 ◼   ► It's faster, it's gonna slot right in.

01:21:52 ◼   ► The best thing with the Apple TV,

01:21:53 ◼   ► with the internal power supply, is when I get new ones,

01:21:55 ◼   ► I don't even have to go back on the TV

01:21:57 ◼   ► and unplug a bunch of crap.

01:21:58 ◼   ► You just pull it out and plug it right back

01:21:59 ◼   ► into all the same cables.

01:22:01 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, mine's still plugged into a PS3 power cable.

01:22:03 ◼   ► - I don't even know what power cables are.

01:22:04 ◼   ► It's just the ones that are attached to the thing.

01:22:06 ◼   ► I mean, I don't recommend people get one.

01:22:07 ◼   ► If you have the old one and it works fine for your thing

01:22:09 ◼   ► - And you don't have a 4K TV, there's no reason to get it.

01:22:13 ◼   ► But I'm totally gonna get it.

01:22:14 ◼   ► And one of the other reasons I buy the big one is

01:22:17 ◼   ► 'cause I want Apple to keep improving this product

01:22:19 ◼   ► and by buying the most expensive one,

01:22:21 ◼   ► I'm trying to encourage them with my money.

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01:24:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:24:04 ◼   ► - All right, so iPhone 8, big changes are glass back

01:24:08 ◼   ► with better glass supposedly,

01:24:10 ◼   ► although I feel like we've heard that almost every year.

01:24:12 ◼   ► - And that should be great for gripability too.

01:24:14 ◼   ► Like if, like the reason that I like the jet black so much

01:24:17 ◼   ► is that the back kind of feels like glass,

01:24:19 ◼   ► so it's very tacky and grippy on my fingers

01:24:21 ◼   ► without using a case.

01:24:22 ◼   ► So having glass backs on that, that's a pretty big deal.

01:24:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, like I tweeted, it's jet black,

01:24:27 ◼   ► but without the scratches,

01:24:28 ◼   ► because glass is very resistant to scratch

01:24:30 ◼   ► compared to whatever the hell

01:24:31 ◼   ► the jet black thing is made out of, I don't know.

01:24:34 ◼   ► some kind of chalkboard material.

01:24:35 ◼   ► So yeah, it's all the benefits of jet black

01:24:39 ◼   ► without the downsides.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Speaking of, I wish I could look these things up in my past.

01:24:43 ◼   ► I had to use the podcast search,

01:24:45 ◼   ► but back when the iPhone 4 came out

01:24:48 ◼   ► and still my favorite physical iPhone design,

01:24:51 ◼   ► glass front and back looked awesome,

01:24:53 ◼   ► but now you had a back that could shatter too.

01:24:55 ◼   ► And then the back shattered is not as big deal

01:24:58 ◼   ► as the front shattering, but people didn't like it.

01:25:00 ◼   ► It was cheap to replace the back, cheap-ish,

01:25:03 ◼   ► it's just a piece of glass but anyway after two generations of that the 4 and the 4s uh i remember

01:25:08 ◼   ► talking on some podcast maybe it was this one had to be this one or maybe someone was like

01:25:12 ◼   ► apple's gonna come up with a new phone and you can bet it will not have a glass back

01:25:16 ◼   ► and of course the 5 didn't have a glass back and neither did the 5s and neither the 6 and neither

01:25:21 ◼   ► the 6s and neither the 7 but they found their way back to it because i think they like i like that

01:25:27 ◼   ► design i love the 4 design with the glass front and back it just had a couple of downsides it

01:25:31 ◼   ► It took them this long, took them like five phones,

01:25:34 ◼   ► five whole years to say,

01:25:36 ◼   ► can we get the glass back on this phone?

01:25:39 ◼   ► And they went through all like the laser welded mesh

01:25:41 ◼   ► of copper and steel and blah, blah, blah.

01:25:44 ◼   ► Like they clearly like they wanted to go somewhere.

01:25:48 ◼   ► They went there and they backed off and regrouped

01:25:52 ◼   ► and they eventually got where they wanted to go again,

01:25:55 ◼   ► which is a glass back because there are so many vendors.

01:25:57 ◼   ► Scratch proof is good for grip.

01:25:59 ◼   ► You can make it look really pretty.

01:26:00 ◼   ► It's a radio transparent-ish more so than metal, right?

01:26:05 ◼   ► You don't have to have that glass window

01:26:07 ◼   ► like the 5s had on the back for the radios

01:26:09 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:26:10 ◼   ► So this iPhone 8, I was more impressed

01:26:13 ◼   ► by the industrial design than I thought it would be

01:26:14 ◼   ► because I had, honestly, I hadn't been keeping up

01:26:15 ◼   ► with the iPhone 8 rumors that had all been about the,

01:26:17 ◼   ► you know, the edge to edge screen one and everything.

01:26:19 ◼   ► I thought, yeah, these will just be like the 7s,

01:26:21 ◼   ► it'll be fine.

01:26:22 ◼   ► They'll have faster internals.

01:26:23 ◼   ► I'm actually kind of excited about these

01:26:25 ◼   ► because I think the physical design,

01:26:26 ◼   ► despite being almost the same dimensions, it's cool.

01:26:30 ◼   ► It looks cool in pictures,

01:26:31 ◼   ► and I think physical properties-wise,

01:26:34 ◼   ► it will be a better phone for people

01:26:37 ◼   ► than the other phones that were also shaped like this.

01:26:39 ◼   ► So I give the D8 a pretty big thumbs up.

01:26:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's kind of unfortunate

01:26:45 ◼   ► that it's gonna be kind of buried

01:26:46 ◼   ► in the news cycle for the most part,

01:26:49 ◼   ► and in the year, in the attention cycle by the iPhone X,

01:26:52 ◼   ► because it does look like a pretty good release.

01:26:56 ◼   ► - I was impressed by it,

01:26:57 ◼   ► But of course, I was only paying half attention to it

01:27:01 ◼   ► because I was just like, okay, whatever, whatever, whatever.

01:27:03 ◼   ► Get to the iPhone X, get to the iPhone X,

01:27:05 ◼   ► get to the iPhone X, except not.

01:27:07 ◼   ► - I think you mean 10.

01:27:08 ◼   ► - Oh, no, no, no, I said that deliberately.

01:27:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:27:11 ◼   ► - No, no, we'll get there.

01:27:12 ◼   ► We'll get there.

01:27:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, we're getting there, we're getting there.

01:27:14 ◼   ► - All right, anyway, more good things about this one.

01:27:16 ◼   ► So, I mean, we assume this would be the case,

01:27:18 ◼   ► but it's worth reemphasizing.

01:27:20 ◼   ► It's got the same chip as the fancy phone, right?

01:27:22 ◼   ► It's not like it's got a lesser chip.

01:27:23 ◼   ► This is not like, oh, this is last year's model

01:27:25 ◼   ► and it has the A with one lower A.

01:27:28 ◼   ► It's got an A10, no, it's got an A11 in,

01:27:30 ◼   ► and the A11 is nuts, as usual.

01:27:32 ◼   ► Like people posted the benchmark showing it,

01:27:35 ◼   ► beating a 13-inch MacBook Pro in Geekbench benchmarks

01:27:39 ◼   ► in both single and multi-core.

01:27:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, if those are real, by the way,

01:27:42 ◼   ► that means that they have now beaten Casey's computer,

01:27:44 ◼   ► which is awesome.

01:27:45 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:27:46 ◼   ► - I mean, it's pretty amazing.

01:27:47 ◼   ► And you get that in the 8,

01:27:48 ◼   ► like you don't have to buy the fancy phone for that.

01:27:50 ◼   ► It has wireless charging,

01:27:52 ◼   ► which I didn't think it would have

01:27:53 ◼   ► for differentiation purposes,

01:27:54 ◼   ► but it does have it.

01:27:56 ◼   ► And even though Apple's not ready with its charger thing,

01:27:59 ◼   ► I love the fact that they use that Qi charging standard.

01:28:02 ◼   ► A friend of mine has that charging thing.

01:28:04 ◼   ► He bought wireless,

01:28:05 ◼   ► he bought like a wireless charging case for his iPhone.

01:28:07 ◼   ► Like you put, like I forget which phone it was,

01:28:09 ◼   ► it was like a six or something.

01:28:10 ◼   ► You put this case in it

01:28:12 ◼   ► and it wirelessly charged your iPhone with this standard

01:28:14 ◼   ► by like essentially having a case

01:28:16 ◼   ► that makes it do the thing.

01:28:17 ◼   ► And it was like, oh, that's great,

01:28:18 ◼   ► but you just bought yourself into a dead end

01:28:21 ◼   ► because when Apple comes out with wireless charging,

01:28:22 ◼   ► it sure as hell is not gonna be this Qi stuff.

01:28:24 ◼   ► when they came up with that slide, I'm like, "They did it! They used someone else's standard

01:28:29 ◼   ► because they recognized that they didn't want to have to fight that same battle they did

01:28:32 ◼   ► with carplay because they're putting these chargers in cars and stuff now." And it's

01:28:36 ◼   ► so hard to, in the same way the stupid 30-pin iPod port went to every hotel room, and if

01:28:42 ◼   ► you were another manufacturer and wanted to get in there, it's like, "Sorry, we already

01:28:45 ◼   ► picked the thing that we're going to put on our nightstands, and it's this stupid thing."

01:28:49 ◼   ► The Qi charger—am I pronouncing it right? Qi?

01:28:51 ◼   ► I believe that's right.

01:28:52 ◼   ► chargers are, I don't know if they won the market, but I've seen them around in a couple

01:28:57 ◼   ► of places. I've read reports of them coming in cars or whatever, and so Apple getting

01:29:00 ◼   ► on board with that, but also finding a way to like add its own twist and influence the

01:29:04 ◼   ► standard to charge multiple devices with that air power thing. All that being on the "lesser"

01:29:10 ◼   ► iPhone 8 makes this a pretty darn good phone. Like the only reason people should, you know,

01:29:16 ◼   ► the only reason we're all going to start ignoring it is because we're tech nerds and we care

01:29:20 ◼   ► about all the stuff we're gonna talk about for the iPhone 10.

01:29:23 ◼   ► But this is an eight, it's one bigger than seven.

01:29:27 ◼   ► It looks really cool, it has great features.

01:29:30 ◼   ► If I had a friend or relative who was looking for a phone,

01:29:34 ◼   ► I would not say, oh, just ignore the eight.

01:29:36 ◼   ► I would ask them what they're looking for in a phone

01:29:37 ◼   ► and I think a lot of people should get the eight

01:29:41 ◼   ► instead of the 10 and I think it will be great for them.

01:29:44 ◼   ► What's the other thing, Mark, are you gonna tell me

01:29:46 ◼   ► the camera, did they add optical image stabilization

01:29:49 ◼   ► for the zoomed in one on this or only on the 10?

01:29:51 ◼   ► - No, only on the 10.

01:29:53 ◼   ► But I mean, these are, the camera,

01:29:57 ◼   ► we'll see how it is in practice.

01:29:59 ◼   ► The specs sounded pretty good.

01:30:00 ◼   ► It's still 12 megapixel, but they said

01:30:02 ◼   ► it's an all new sensor, more light, better color, et cetera,

01:30:06 ◼   ► kind of the usual suspects there, which is awesome.

01:30:08 ◼   ► There's a whole bunch of custom silicon sounding things

01:30:11 ◼   ► or custom processing steps kind of things

01:30:13 ◼   ► that they gave fun marketing names to

01:30:16 ◼   ► or that they glossed over.

01:30:17 ◼   ► They mentioned that, first of all,

01:30:20 ◼   ► I think it's interesting noting that the A11 Bionic,

01:30:23 ◼   ► like they gave it a name, the Bionic afterwards,

01:30:25 ◼   ► like to kinda-- - It was like the Fusion

01:30:28 ◼   ► made even less sense, but whatever.

01:30:30 ◼   ► They won't have names, they can have their names.