ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I'm fired up tonight in the sense that I love hate my phone and we're gonna have to talk about this later.

00:00:08 ◼   ► There are some parts I really, really, really love in some parts that are driving me freaking crazy.

00:00:16 ◼   ► And I think we should talk about that later. That's what we in the business like to call a teaser.

00:00:22 ◼   ► If this stays in the show, I guarantee someone will write in and say, "So that's actually not a teaser."

00:00:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:30 ◼   ► - That's actually a sting preview.

00:00:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:00:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:34 ◼   ► - It's a blast reference.

00:00:36 ◼   ► - Oh God, it's a miracle that anyone puts any content

00:00:39 ◼   ► on the internet by choice ever, ever.

00:00:41 ◼   ► - Well, if we ever wanna get to that,

00:00:43 ◼   ► I do wanna talk about the feedback to my laptop article.

00:00:47 ◼   ► - Oh, I have feedback I would like to file, actually.

00:00:50 ◼   ► - Unfortunately, Syracuse covered it pretty well.

00:00:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:53 ◼   ► I don't have great today.

00:00:54 ◼   ► - No, I didn't talk about it.

00:00:55 ◼   ► I purposely didn't try not to talk about your article.

00:00:58 ◼   ► We have still plenty of things to talk about

00:01:00 ◼   ► on your article with you specifically.

00:01:02 ◼   ► - All right, good.

00:01:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I have plenty of complaints to levy,

00:01:05 ◼   ► so I would like my chance.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Let's start with some follow up

00:01:11 ◼   ► about the multitasking gesture on the iPhone X.

00:01:15 ◼   ► It was funny because as a podcast listener,

00:01:19 ◼   ► I have listened to every Apple-related tech podcast

00:01:22 ◼   ► I listen to, get all of the feedback about the one true way to do the multitasking gesture,

00:01:29 ◼   ► the one true way that is flawless and will never ever fail. It just so happens that there

00:01:36 ◼   ► are about 75 one true ways to do the multitasking gesture on the iPhone 10. And I had thought

00:01:43 ◼   ► by the time we had covered it, perhaps the internet will have gotten this out of their

00:01:49 ◼   ► system. Oh no, my friends, the internet is not done. So, one of you has comically put

00:01:57 ◼   ► in the show notes, and I'm guessing this is Jon, the tyranny, the tyranny, tyranny,

00:02:02 ◼   ► the angst of the pause. The tyranny, the tyranny of the pause. Tell us about this.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Jon Streeter Yeah, this was the implied context of all

00:02:12 ◼   ► of my comments on the multitasking gesture. Last year we were talking about how I had

00:02:16 ◼   ► difficulty doing it from the home screen, but how it was as far as I could tell the

00:02:19 ◼   ► same gesture as elsewhere and why I had difficulty doing it on the home screen.

00:02:23 ◼   ► And at one point I ratted off a bunch of gestures that I had tried, things that people had suggested

00:02:28 ◼   ► and things that work elsewhere.

00:02:30 ◼   ► The implied but not stated part of that conversation was that all the things I was describing I

00:02:37 ◼   ► was doing instead of the one where you drag up and then pause for a little bit and then,

00:02:44 ◼   ► you know, like basically what I think of as the sort of standard one, I think it's the

00:02:48 ◼   ► one they demoed in the keynote, where, you know, pull up from the bottom but don't take

00:02:52 ◼   ► your finger off the screen and then wait a little bit and then the multitasking thing

00:02:55 ◼   ► comes. And the reason that was my implied context is because I hate pauses. I hate,

00:03:03 ◼   ► you know, tap and hold. I hate anything where I have to do something for a set amount of

00:03:07 ◼   ► time and there's no way I can speed it up. That's why I was interested in the, you know,

00:03:12 ◼   ► j-turn, 45 degree angle, swipe, all sorts of other little things.

00:03:16 ◼   ► So everybody who wrote in to tell us, "Why are you doing all these strange gestures?

00:03:21 ◼   ► Just pull up from the bottom and then wait a second and it'll come up."

00:03:25 ◼   ► I definitely knew that.

00:03:27 ◼   ► I don't want to wait.

00:03:29 ◼   ► The second category of people are saying, "You actually don't have to wait.

00:03:33 ◼   ► If you pull up a precise amount from the bottom and immediately remove your finger from the

00:03:36 ◼   ► screen, it will bring up the multitasking gesture."

00:03:41 ◼   ► And I guess that gets rid of the weight, but I find it more difficult to exactly get that

00:03:47 ◼   ► distance right than I do to do one of the J-turn or 45-degree anchovies, whatever.

00:03:51 ◼   ► So anyway, in case it wasn't clear and you didn't know, you can pull up from the bottom,

00:03:55 ◼   ► pause for a moment with your finger on the screen, and the multitasking thing will come

00:03:58 ◼   ► up.

00:03:59 ◼   ► And that is probably easier to pull off than any of the gestures that I was describing

00:04:03 ◼   ► in which you don't have to do that, but you do have to wait, and I don't like waiting.

00:04:09 ◼   ► had no idea. It's like you grew up in the New York area. We got a little bit of feedback

00:04:15 ◼   ► about the refund requests for AppleCare+. I could have sworn I had put this in the show

00:04:21 ◼   ► notes, but I was wrong for the past episode. So we'll be in the show notes for this episode.

00:04:26 ◼   ► And John Him was the first person I saw to write in with a link to a KBase article, "Hello,

00:04:31 ◼   ► Steven Hackett," wherein it's entitled "How to Request a Refund for an AppleCare Plan."

00:04:36 ◼   ► Blah, blah, blah. There are a few important things to keep in mind when you cancel and

00:04:39 ◼   ► return AppleCare coverage plan. If you cancel your plan within 30 days of your purchase

00:04:42 ◼   ► date, you'll get a full refund minus the value of any service already performed. If you cancel

00:04:46 ◼   ► your AppleCare plan more than 30 days after purchase, you'll get a refund based on the

00:04:50 ◼   ► percentage of unexpired AppleCare coverage minus the value of any service already provided.

00:04:56 ◼   ► And so it's a thing, which I didn't know. And we even heard a couple people say that

00:04:59 ◼   ► they told geniuses, or perhaps not geniuses, and perhaps it was salespeople, but one way

00:05:06 ◼   ► or another told Apple retail employees that this was a thing, and they didn't even know

00:05:10 ◼   ► it was a thing, as it turns out. So, yeah, it's a thing. We'll put a link in the show

00:05:15 ◼   ► notes. All right, who is it that put this weird Kickstarter that I'd never heard about

00:05:19 ◼   ► before in the show notes?

00:05:21 ◼   ► It was me. It's always me. We were talking last week about the advantages of face ID

00:05:29 ◼   ► over touch ID, especially if you have things wrong with the tips of your fingers or they're

00:05:33 ◼   ► dirty or scratched up, stuff like that. And also if you're wearing gloves, and I mentioned

00:05:38 ◼   ► that they had gloves that will let you use your touch screen, but those gloves don't

00:05:41 ◼   ► let you activate Touch ID. Well, someone sent me this link to a Kickstarter for gloves that

00:05:48 ◼   ► let you touch your screen, you know, with gloves on, like they work with a touch screen.

00:05:53 ◼   ► But also, they provide not your fingerprints through the gloves, like I was suggesting

00:05:58 ◼   ► last show, like there are no gloves that magically surface your fingerprints, but instead give

00:06:03 ◼   ► you a bunch of stickers with ostensibly unique fingerprints on every single sticker that

00:06:08 ◼   ► work with Touch ID.

00:06:09 ◼   ► So what you do is you put on these gloves, or put on these little stickers on your gloves,

00:06:13 ◼   ► right?

00:06:14 ◼   ► And each one is unique.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Like every single person who gets one gets a unique fingerprint thing.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Train it on your gloved fingerprint thingy, and then you can unlock your phone and use

00:06:24 ◼   ► it with that glove.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Of course, what that means is that if someone wants to unlock your phone, they just need

00:06:27 ◼   ► to steal your glove instead of cutting off your finger or lifting your prints off a glass

00:06:30 ◼   ► of water or whatever Mission Impossible type thing they're gonna do. But anyway, it's a

00:06:35 ◼   ► Kickstarter. All the normal caveats are by Kickstarter. But, you know, someone's always

00:06:40 ◼   ► got an interesting idea, and here's another one. Unique fingerprint stickers.

00:06:44 ◼   ► I had no idea this was a thing. Well, it's a Kickstarter, so is it a thing?

00:06:50 ◼   ► Touché. Touché, sir. Well played. Aye yai yai.

00:06:55 ◼   ► All right, so apparently we have some things to talk about with regard to iCloud restores

00:07:00 ◼   ► during iPhone X setup.

00:07:02 ◼   ► - I spoke too soon.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Last week we all spoke, well, maybe you didn't,

00:07:04 ◼   ► but I did, about like, oh, iCloud restore during setup,

00:07:07 ◼   ► it's much faster now, everything works great.

00:07:10 ◼   ► That was all true up until the point

00:07:12 ◼   ► where my wife's phone wanted to update to whatever,

00:07:16 ◼   ► I think it's like the iOS update

00:07:17 ◼   ► that gets rid of the weird funny character thing

00:07:20 ◼   ► when you try to have capital I, whatever,

00:07:21 ◼   ► whatever update that was.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And she normally updates her phone

00:07:25 ◼   ► and eventually tried to do the update.

00:07:28 ◼   ► And it said something to the effect of, oh, yeah, no,

00:07:32 ◼   ► this OS update will run as soon as your iCloud restore

00:07:34 ◼   ► finishes.

00:07:35 ◼   ► And it said that for about two weeks now.

00:07:38 ◼   ► And that's bad.

00:07:39 ◼   ► Oh, lovely.

00:07:40 ◼   ► And whenever a question is to me,

00:07:42 ◼   ► it was like, can I just cancel this iCloud restore?

00:07:45 ◼   ► And it's like, I don't know.

00:07:48 ◼   ► It's another one of those iCloud things where reboot your phone.

00:07:54 ◼   ► As far as I'm aware, the iCloud restore

00:07:56 ◼   ► finished the day we set up your phone.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Like all the apps are there.

00:08:01 ◼   ► What remains to be done?

00:08:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:04 ◼   ► It's not like I have some view into the system that

00:08:06 ◼   ► tells me what the iCloud restore process is doing.

00:08:09 ◼   ► So I find this mildly upsetting.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And I don't as yet have a solution.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I assume what I'm just going to do

00:08:14 ◼   ► is Google the error message, because that's

00:08:16 ◼   ► the level of debugging we're at in the iOS world these days,

00:08:18 ◼   ► especially as it relates to iCloud things.

00:08:20 ◼   ► So you can find how many other people have this problem.

00:08:23 ◼   ► But in the end, yeah, it's like reboot the phone, step zero,

00:08:26 ◼   ► and see if that magically changes something.

00:08:29 ◼   ► - We got some bad news from Apple, and I'm quoting now.

00:08:34 ◼   ► We can't wait for people to experience HomePod,

00:08:37 ◼   ► Apple's breakthrough wireless speaker for the home,

00:08:39 ◼   ► but we need a little more time

00:08:40 ◼   ► before it's ready for our customers.

00:08:42 ◼   ► We'll start shipping in the US, UK,

00:08:44 ◼   ► and Australia in early 2018.

00:08:46 ◼   ► This was not given directly to ATP,

00:08:48 ◼   ► but it was given to a couple of news sites

00:08:50 ◼   ► or bloggers or what have you.

00:08:52 ◼   ► The HomePod is indeed delayed,

00:08:53 ◼   ► So I guess next week or perhaps later this week

00:08:57 ◼   ► we'll hear the same for the iMac Pro.

00:09:00 ◼   ► 'Cause weren't both promises here, is that right?

00:09:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, but the iMac Pro's gonna make it.

00:09:05 ◼   ► - Is it?

00:09:05 ◼   ► - Sure, why not?

00:09:07 ◼   ► 'Cause like five people will buy them

00:09:08 ◼   ► and it doesn't really matter and it will probably make it.

00:09:10 ◼   ► - I mean technically the 2013 Mac Pro

00:09:13 ◼   ► was available in December 2013,

00:09:15 ◼   ► but if you actually wanted to try to order one,

00:09:17 ◼   ► you weren't gonna get it until February 2014.

00:09:20 ◼   ► So the iMac Pro might follow a similar path.

00:09:22 ◼   ► I don't really know if anything in particular

00:09:26 ◼   ► is holding up the iMac Pro.

00:09:28 ◼   ► I'm sure they have their reasons,

00:09:30 ◼   ► but I'm sure they have nothing to do

00:09:31 ◼   ► with whatever's holding back the HomePod.

00:09:33 ◼   ► The HomePod seems like it's just very,

00:09:37 ◼   ► it seemed like it was in such an early state

00:09:39 ◼   ► when they announced it last June

00:09:41 ◼   ► that it slipping a few months now

00:09:44 ◼   ► is not that big of a surprise.

00:09:46 ◼   ► And it's all new.

00:09:48 ◼   ► All new hardware, more importantly,

00:09:50 ◼   ► probably all new software relying on their fairly shaky

00:09:54 ◼   ► service back end for Siri, so lots of possible things

00:09:59 ◼   ► could have gone wrong here or could have missed deadlines

00:10:03 ◼   ► here to make that get delayed by a few months.

00:10:06 ◼   ► So this is not at all a surprise.

00:10:09 ◼   ► And I hope, from what we've seen from the HomePod so far,

00:10:13 ◼   ► which is admittedly very, very little,

00:10:16 ◼   ► it sure doesn't seem like it's that competitive

00:10:18 ◼   ► with the other products in that market.

00:10:21 ◼   ► So maybe they're making it a little bit better.

00:10:22 ◼   ► That's kind of my hope here is like,

00:10:25 ◼   ► maybe this will be a little bit more competitive

00:10:26 ◼   ► against the Echo line of products especially

00:10:29 ◼   ► and then also against things like Sonos and Google, whatever.

00:10:32 ◼   ► - Maybe it will be done is more like

00:10:35 ◼   ► what I think this is getting at.

00:10:37 ◼   ► They showed the hardware, but they had so little

00:10:39 ◼   ► of the software done that all they would let people do

00:10:41 ◼   ► with it is play music, but this is ostensibly something

00:10:44 ◼   ► you can talk to and they were demonstrating none of that,

00:10:47 ◼   ► Which makes me think that the hardware was at that time much farther along than the software,

00:10:53 ◼   ► and software is much harder to predict when it will be done, and I feel like it's not

00:10:57 ◼   ► done, and that's why it's delayed.

00:11:00 ◼   ► And as I said on upgrade today with Jason, when they announced that the HomePod would

00:11:05 ◼   ► be released, and the iMac Pro for that matter, in December, they announced that it's in September

00:11:11 ◼   ► when they had the iPhone event?

00:11:12 ◼   ► Is that when all the stuff—

00:11:13 ◼   ► No, they announced it in June.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Or June, whatever it was.

00:11:15 ◼   ► Anyway, when they announced,

00:11:16 ◼   ► they announced December then, right?

00:11:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, in June during the W2C keynote

00:11:20 ◼   ► is the only time we've ever heard about the HomePod,

00:11:22 ◼   ► and then they said December.

00:11:24 ◼   ► - Was that W2C, really?

00:11:26 ◼   ► Yes, oh wow, anyway.

00:11:28 ◼   ► - Right.

00:11:28 ◼   ► - As soon as they announced December,

00:11:31 ◼   ► they preannounced that they would not make

00:11:33 ◼   ► the holiday season, right?

00:11:34 ◼   ► So now, when they're delaying it until early 2018,

00:11:39 ◼   ► it's not as if suddenly they're missing the holiday season.

00:11:41 ◼   ► They already preannounced

00:11:42 ◼   ► they were missing the holiday season.

00:11:43 ◼   ► This is not a new change.

00:11:45 ◼   ► All they have done is crossed it over the year boundary.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And it's probably because, you know,

00:11:52 ◼   ► I think we can make it by the end of year.

00:11:53 ◼   ► That's our stretch goal team.

00:11:55 ◼   ► And they didn't make it so it gets pushed out, right?

00:11:57 ◼   ► But the nice PR side effect is,

00:11:59 ◼   ► if they had announced HomePod and said,

00:12:01 ◼   ► "This isn't coming until 2018,"

00:12:02 ◼   ► there would be all these groans

00:12:03 ◼   ► because you crossed the year boundary.

00:12:05 ◼   ► But if you say December 31st, you're like,

00:12:06 ◼   ► "Oh, but you know, it'll be here in 2017."

00:12:09 ◼   ► And that's a better PR story.

00:12:10 ◼   ► And then as December approaches and it becomes clear

00:12:13 ◼   ► that you're not gonna do that

00:12:14 ◼   ► and people just want to go home and get their vacations,

00:12:16 ◼   ► then they can announce that it got delayed.

00:12:17 ◼   ► So I think they were shooting for the end of the year,

00:12:21 ◼   ► and they just didn't make it, and that's fine.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Don't release a product that's not done.

00:12:24 ◼   ► At no point was this going to be a holiday purchase,

00:12:27 ◼   ► and it's still not a holiday purchase, so it'll be fine.

00:12:30 ◼   ► - So one possibly worrying thing about this

00:12:33 ◼   ► is that nobody seems that sad about this.

00:12:37 ◼   ► Is that a concern?

00:12:38 ◼   ► - Well, what are they gonna be sad about?

00:12:40 ◼   ► I want that amazing demo that they,

00:12:41 ◼   ► oh, they didn't show a demo.

00:12:42 ◼   ► showed up playing music and it sounded good. Like, we don't even know what to expect other

00:12:46 ◼   ► than it will play your music and some people said it plays music nicely and sounds good,

00:12:51 ◼   ► right? There's no wow factor to this, especially with the Sonos announcements, right? If you

00:12:58 ◼   ► want a speaker that sounds good that you can talk to, Sonos tells you that. And this is

00:13:03 ◼   ► just like, "Oh, it sounds good and you can talk to it and you can talk to it and make

00:13:07 ◼   ► it play Apple Music," whereas Sonos will play Apple Music but not when you talk to it right

00:13:10 ◼   ► now. Like, yeah, this is Apple trying to enter a market that it's currently not in. But if

00:13:18 ◼   ► they have something special to show this market, here's Apple's entry. And this is the special

00:13:23 ◼   ► Apple magic. They haven't shown that yet. So what is there to really get excited about?

00:13:28 ◼   ► I don't know. All I know is I feel less and less confident in Siri as time goes on. And

00:13:36 ◼   ► There was actually a really, really tremendous crossover between Welcome to Macintosh and

00:13:41 ◼   ► 20,000 Hertz, both of which are phenomenal podcasts that you should be listening to.

00:13:46 ◼   ► And I think it was Mark Bramhill of Welcome to Macintosh had said, he was of the opinion

00:13:52 ◼   ► that as Siri sounds more and more and more lifelike and less robotic, we as human beings,

00:14:01 ◼   ► And I think I certainly fall into this, are less and less and less tolerant of it being

00:14:07 ◼   ► anything but perfect.

00:14:09 ◼   ► Because the voice is getting eerily close to maybe not perfect, but really good.

00:14:15 ◼   ► And so you expect the best out of this.

00:14:18 ◼   ► And man, I don't know if it's me or what, but I just feel like Siri has been garbage

00:14:23 ◼   ► the last few months.

00:14:25 ◼   ► But you know what isn't frustrating, kids?

00:14:27 ◼   ► Me being vindicated.

00:14:28 ◼   ► And oh, boy, am I vindicated.

00:14:32 ◼   ► We have some follow-up about the great dust-up of November 2017.

00:14:37 ◼   ► The chili cook-off.

00:14:38 ◼   ► The chili cook-off.

00:14:39 ◼   ► If you recall, I had put an Ask ATP question into the show notes that Jon had tried to

00:14:48 ◼   ► move out of the episode, and then obnoxiously I'd pretty much forced all of us to drag

00:14:53 ◼   ► it back in.

00:14:54 ◼   ► And we quickly discovered that Jon had built himself a beautiful mind style conspiracy

00:14:59 ◼   ► theory as to what the actual intention of this question's author was.

00:15:05 ◼   ► During the recording of that episode, I tweeted at the author, whose name is Jonathan Bowling,

00:15:10 ◼   ► I said to him, "Was this an honest question or were you making an in-joke about John Merlin,

00:15:14 ◼   ► etc."

00:15:15 ◼   ► To which he replied at the time, "Honest question, but I was betting something pretty funny might

00:15:18 ◼   ► happen in the answers."

00:15:19 ◼   ► And I believe we brought all this up during the show.

00:15:21 ◼   ► John said, "See? He thought something funny would happen. He's setting us up."

00:15:26 ◼   ► John: Marco cut that part out of the episode.

00:15:27 ◼   ► David: Oh, did he?

00:15:28 ◼   ► John; That's why, yes.

00:15:29 ◼   ► John; Wait, did I? Yeah, that's why I put it back in this one, because it was like in

00:15:31 ◼   ► the after, after, after, after show.

00:15:34 ◼   ► David; Anyway, yeah.

00:15:35 ◼   ► John; This response did come in, and so it was an honest question, but I was betting

00:15:38 ◼   ► something pretty funny might happen. And my reading of that question was, "But I was

00:15:41 ◼   ► betting something pretty funny might happen," and Casey's reading is different. But anyway,

00:15:44 ◼   ► go ahead.

00:15:45 ◼   ► David; So, we got an email from Jonathan. I will not read all of it, but I will read

00:15:49 ◼   ► some of it. Episode 248, "Chili Cook-Off" turned out to be more fun than I could have

00:15:54 ◼   ► imagined. I was just hoping that you would include my question, so I had no idea that

00:15:57 ◼   ► it would cause a mini-Saracusa rant, TM, that would backfire and make the question stay

00:16:02 ◼   ► in the show. Thank you, Casey, for defending my good intentions. I've been a big fan of

00:16:06 ◼   ► hypercritical build and analyze and ATP, longtime listener, first time, quote, "close to the

00:16:09 ◼   ► metaller," quote. John's suspicions were unfounded. I do enjoy "Reconsolable Differences," which,

00:16:14 ◼   ► by the way, is a tremendous program which you should listen to, but I didn't have anything

00:16:18 ◼   ► from rec diffs in mind when I asked the question. I'd be curious to know which episode or episodes

00:16:22 ◼   ► he thought I was referencing. Casey, I look forward to hearing you point out to John that

00:16:25 ◼   ► he was wrong in the next episode's follow-up, copyright John Siracus of 2011. I should note

00:16:30 ◼   ► that's in the email. I also look forward to his continued good-humored suspicions with

00:16:34 ◼   ► a winky emoji. John, would you like to try to defend yourself at this time?

00:16:39 ◼   ► John: Well, there's not really much to defend here because—well, first of all, I'm going

00:16:45 ◼   ► I want to say that my hope after last week's episode was that you two, based on the feedback

00:16:51 ◼   ► from everyone else, would come to a better understanding of what my objection was. Because

00:16:56 ◼   ► if you recall—

00:16:57 ◼   ► I'm more confused than ever.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Well, maybe I can help you out. But anyway, I'm saying what my hope was. If you recall,

00:17:06 ◼   ► the idea was there was this question in there. I moved it down. I said, "I don't like

00:17:09 ◼   ► this question." Casey asked me, and then he asked me on the show, "Why don't you

00:17:13 ◼   ► like this question?" And I explained why I don't like this question. And Casey said

00:17:18 ◼   ► that my reasons were dumb. Right? So here, that's it. It was, "John, please tell me

00:17:25 ◼   ► why don't you like this question?" I feel like I tried my best to explain why I don't

00:17:30 ◼   ► like the question. There's no being right or wrong about why I don't like the question.

00:17:34 ◼   ► But obviously, you two have not come to a deeper understanding of why I didn't like

00:17:39 ◼   ► the question. And I don't know why this example didn't occur to me, but I think I

00:17:42 ◼   ► have a better example to hopefully bring you to that understanding. If someone had written

00:17:47 ◼   ► into the show, ask ATP, say, "Should I buy a white car?" If Casey said, "I don't

00:17:54 ◼   ► like that question," I would understand why he doesn't like that question. That's

00:17:59 ◼   ► it.

00:18:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:18:01 ◼   ► Right? I would understand. Now, imagine that person had never heard the show before except

00:18:05 ◼   ► like a friend said that we talk about cars sometimes and was legitimately thinking about

00:18:09 ◼   ► buying a white car and you know all they talk about cars all the time and maybe

00:18:13 ◼   ► in the after show they'll talk about white cars maybe I'll just ask them should I buy

00:18:15 ◼   ► a white car because you know they're hard to keep clean and so on and so forth

00:18:17 ◼   ► right still still if you said I don't like that question I would say I

00:18:22 ◼   ► understand why you don't like that question right and if that person

00:18:26 ◼   ► ordered and said I don't know what this thing you're talking about the white

00:18:28 ◼   ► cars I just heard you guys talk about cars sometimes I'm thinking of getting

00:18:31 ◼   ► one and white is hard to keep clean stuff so I for you to have an opinion

00:18:33 ◼   ► even if they were a hundred percent honest I would still understand why you

00:18:37 ◼   ► don't like that question. And I wouldn't say it was a conspiracy theory. Now imagine further

00:18:40 ◼   ► still that Marco and I said, "Casey, I don't know what you're talking about. This person

00:18:44 ◼   ► just asking about white cars. I have no idea of this larger context that you're trying

00:18:47 ◼   ► to refer to of white cars, because you didn't – because this was like seven years in the

00:18:52 ◼   ► future and we didn't remember this white car gag?"

00:18:54 ◼   ► Oh, I trick – I assure you, I will never be allowed to forget the white car gag, but

00:18:59 ◼   ► I'm with you in principle. I'm with you in principle.

00:19:01 ◼   ► This is the situation I find myself in, because believe me, the close to the metal thing was

00:19:05 ◼   ► as real as the white car as evidenced by all the people who wrote in to say that person

00:19:09 ◼   ► is 100% trolling and John is right. I mean, they don't know what's in this person's heart

00:19:13 ◼   ► any more than I do, right? But that it is legitimately a thing, as much a thing as white

00:19:17 ◼   ► cars were. And yet you two have no recollection of it. And this person claims to have no recollection

00:19:22 ◼   ► of it despite listening all the way back to hypercritical, which is where this is from,

00:19:25 ◼   ► not reconcilable differences. Anyway, all this is to say, I hope you now understand

00:19:31 ◼   ► where I was coming from. And I hope you can use the white car example as instructive to

00:19:36 ◼   ► say, "What? Maybe you wouldn't mind that question. Maybe you would. But all I'm saying

00:19:40 ◼   ► is if you said you didn't like it, I would understand why, and I think Marco would too,

00:19:45 ◼   ► because we both have the shared context. Without the shared context, would you seem like a

00:19:49 ◼   ► conspiracy theory person? What is this about white cars? What are you even talking about?

00:19:53 ◼   ► Imagine how frustrating it would be for you to have to re-explain to me and Marco what

00:19:57 ◼   ► to deal with the white car thing is.

00:20:00 ◼   ► I do think, I am laughing, but I do think I understand your point better. I think the

00:20:04 ◼   ► difference for me, and we can move on, but the difference for me is that the white car

00:20:10 ◼   ► thing is, for better or worse, like the defining gag about me. It's that and who the hell

00:20:16 ◼   ► is Casey.

00:20:17 ◼   ► You're so lucky to only have one, Casey.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Well two, but I'm with you. Again, I'm with you.

00:20:22 ◼   ► What's the second one? Water on the computer?

00:20:24 ◼   ► No, well, okay, three. I said, "Who the hell is Casey?"

00:20:26 ◼   ► In the computer.

00:20:27 ◼   ► Yeah, in the computer.

00:20:28 ◼   ► I see.

00:20:29 ◼   ► I'd forgotten about that one.

00:20:30 ◼   ► You'd have to re-explain that context and I would say, "You're crazy.

00:20:31 ◼   ► Everyone knows who you are."

00:20:32 ◼   ► Yeah, well, fine.

00:20:33 ◼   ► John Tiracusa, wise old soul.

00:20:34 ◼   ► Stan and his friends born in the back row.

00:20:35 ◼   ► Marco Orment, he's a product man.

00:20:36 ◼   ► He's selling them off just as fast as he can.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Casey!

00:20:38 ◼   ► Who the hell is Casey?

00:20:39 ◼   ► Who the hell is Casey?

00:20:40 ◼   ► Who the hell is Casey?

00:20:41 ◼   ► Who the hell is Casey?

00:20:42 ◼   ► One day, Max and Dan.

00:20:43 ◼   ► But my point is just that there are a handful of things that I think are going to be a lot

00:20:54 ◼   ► there are a handful of things that I feel like all of us, upon hearing them, would say, "Yes,

00:21:02 ◼   ► of course. Who the hell is Casey? I remember." And this one, to my eyes anyway, was way more

00:21:08 ◼   ► esoteric and way- It's older. I mean, it's older. Like, we traced it back. It was like

00:21:14 ◼   ► episode 50 of Hypercritical. That's like six years ago. So, you know, I guess you can feel forgiven

00:21:19 ◼   ► for completely forgetting about it. I was just very surprised that neither one of you could even

00:21:22 ◼   ► vaguely remember that it was a thing and we're just starting from whole cloth as if I was

00:21:25 ◼   ► just making this up. I assure you I am not.

00:21:28 ◼   ► No, I never really thought you were making it up. It just seemed—it seemed kind of

00:21:31 ◼   ► bananas to me that you were so unequivocally convinced that this was trolling.

00:21:36 ◼   ► I thought you would remember. I thought—I mean, obviously it's not as recent as a

00:21:39 ◼   ► white car, but I thought one or both of you would certainly remember it. And either way—by

00:21:44 ◼   ► the way, I will point out, like, at the end of this thing, I also look forward to John's,

00:21:47 ◼   ► you know, continued good-humored suspicions. I mean, obviously if someone was trolling,

00:21:51 ◼   ► the trolly thing to do is not to tell you they're trolling. Not that I'm doubting this person.

00:21:54 ◼   ► I'm sure this person is right, but I'm just saying there are people on the internet like it's

00:21:58 ◼   ► really easy to type words into a text box. But I'm sure this person is being honest and like you two

00:22:02 ◼   ► has just completely forgotten about this from my Hypercritical days because that was a long time ago.

00:22:06 ◼   ► David Tompa Although to be honest, so when did we record

00:22:09 ◼   ► Neutral that started in January of '13? Is that right? I think that's right.

00:22:12 ◼   ► John "Slick" Baum Yeah, that's about right.

00:22:13 ◼   ► David Tompa So that was almost

00:22:15 ◼   ► five years ago, and hypercritical was six or seven years ago. So, I mean, the white car thing is far

00:22:21 ◼   ► closer to hypercritical than it is to us today. You know what I mean? Like, that's—which is weird,

00:22:25 ◼   ► right? Because I feel like that was yesterday in so many ways. But anyway, it was—I was very punchy

00:22:32 ◼   ► when we recorded, but I was never, like, genuinely upset at you. I just thought you were being

00:22:36 ◼   ► utterly preposterous. But I wasn't. That's what I'm getting at. But just because you don't have

00:22:40 ◼   ► the context doesn't mean there isn't a context. And it's completely irrelevant whether he was

00:22:45 ◼   ► was being honest or not. That's what I was trying to get at with the white car thing.

00:22:47 ◼   ► Because legit, someone could listen to the show. That's a real question that people ask,

00:22:50 ◼   ► should I get a white car? I've had that question asked to me before I even came on this show.

00:22:54 ◼   ► But it would be a hell of a coincidence if they asked it on Ask ATP, wouldn't it?

00:22:58 ◼   ► Why would anybody ask if they want to get a white car or not?

00:23:01 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. Why would they? No, but why would they ask ATP? Maybe it's just a legit,

00:23:05 ◼   ► honest question. But I would understand if Casey gave it a little bit of side eye and

00:23:10 ◼   ► maybe said, "I'm picking questions maybe." I'm not going to pick that one.

00:23:13 ◼   ► I mean, it seems to me that white cars just happen to Casey. He never has to actually

00:23:17 ◼   ► consider them. That's true. See? Exactly.

00:23:19 ◼   ► You've owned like 17 white cars. Have you ever had to ask anybody if you should get

00:23:23 ◼   ► a white car or not? I've never asked anyone if I should.

00:23:27 ◼   ► Like you said, it doesn't seem like he had a choice.

00:23:30 ◼   ► One of them was a choice. They just fall from the sky into your driveway

00:23:33 ◼   ► and then their engines break. Can you just dub in like the first 15 minutes

00:23:37 ◼   ► of the first neutral where we discuss this? One of them was absolutely, unequivocally

00:23:41 ◼   ► my choice. I specifically requested white for one. Every other one happened to me. I'm

00:23:47 ◼   ► sticking with it.

00:23:48 ◼   ► And for the record, I'm pretty sure Marco's the only one. He obviously originated the

00:23:52 ◼   ► white car thing, and I think he's the only one who really cares. My first car was a white

00:23:55 ◼   ► car too, and I think all I said on "Neutral" was that if you have a really nicely shaped

00:23:59 ◼   ► car, then you can get it in white, but if your car is ugly, don't get it in white, because

00:24:02 ◼   ► it highlights how badly shaped it is. But beyond that, I have no objections to white

00:24:06 ◼   ► cars.

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00:25:53 ◼   ► Speaking of Ask ATP, let's just mosey right on in.

00:26:00 ◼   ► Shane Bouslo writes, "Do you think using Qi chargers everywhere and topping off the

00:26:06 ◼   ► iPhone's batteries all the time will impact battery health?"

00:26:10 ◼   ► I have no idea, but I've had the same question.

00:26:14 ◼   ► So I think this is probably similar to lots of different battery health questions and

00:26:21 ◼   ► theories and best practices that we've heard over the years with computers.

00:26:26 ◼   ► There is probably some truth to the fact that

00:26:29 ◼   ► charging lithium batteries all the time

00:26:30 ◼   ► does actually shorten their lifespan

00:26:33 ◼   ► if they're not kept within their ideal

00:26:35 ◼   ► long-term charging health range,

00:26:37 ◼   ► which is usually not fully charged.

00:26:39 ◼   ► Usually it's closer to middle of the battery charge.

00:26:43 ◼   ► If you want a lithium battery to last as long as possible,

00:26:45 ◼   ► keep the charge level somewhere near the middle

00:26:47 ◼   ► or in some kind of range near the middle,

00:26:49 ◼   ► and that tends to keep them lasting longer.

00:26:52 ◼   ► The reason I added this,

00:26:52 ◼   ► and why I thought this was worth talking about,

00:26:54 ◼   ► I feel like with your phone that you're using every day,

00:26:58 ◼   ► that you are charging every night,

00:27:00 ◼   ► that you are using it throughout the day,

00:27:02 ◼   ► you're putting a good part of a full cycle

00:27:05 ◼   ► on a battery every day, sometimes more if you use it heavily.

00:27:09 ◼   ► I feel like your battery is not going to be very useful

00:27:13 ◼   ► for more than about two years, maybe three years

00:27:16 ◼   ► if you're more gentle on it.

00:27:19 ◼   ► But no matter what you do, this is really hard on a battery

00:27:23 ◼   ► to be used to be basically cycled,

00:27:25 ◼   ► a full cycle meaning like full charge to nearly empty,

00:27:29 ◼   ► to be going through a full cycle almost every day,

00:27:31 ◼   ► you're gonna wear out that battery

00:27:32 ◼   ► pretty much no matter what you do.

00:27:34 ◼   ► And so the alternative, which is topping it off

00:27:37 ◼   ► on these little chargers all over your house

00:27:39 ◼   ► and car and workplace all the time,

00:27:41 ◼   ► I don't think that's that much worse.

00:27:44 ◼   ► It might actually be better even.

00:27:46 ◼   ► What's worse for a lithium ion battery,

00:27:47 ◼   ► keeping it at a full charge for a day

00:27:49 ◼   ► or going through a full cycle?

00:27:51 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:27:52 ◼   ► but it's probably not gonna be that different.

00:27:54 ◼   ► Either way, you're using it heavily.

00:27:56 ◼   ► You know, like if you have a laptop

00:27:58 ◼   ► and you use it on battery for its full range every day,

00:28:03 ◼   ► that's gonna do the same thing with the laptop.

00:28:04 ◼   ► If you keep it plugged in all the time,

00:28:06 ◼   ► that's gonna be better for it,

00:28:07 ◼   ► but again, like maybe not that much better

00:28:10 ◼   ► because of the full charge being bad thing.

00:28:12 ◼   ► So I think the answer here is

00:28:15 ◼   ► keeping them on charges all the time

00:28:17 ◼   ► will probably impact battery health,

00:28:19 ◼   ► but the alternative would probably impact it more.

00:28:23 ◼   ► And in the grand scheme of things,

00:28:24 ◼   ► your phone battery, no matter what you do,

00:28:26 ◼   ► is gonna have a not that useful amount of charge

00:28:30 ◼   ► after two or three years, no matter what you do.

00:28:32 ◼   ► - There are other factors here as well that make it,

00:28:35 ◼   ► and I don't know what the answer is,

00:28:36 ◼   ► this just muddies the water even more

00:28:38 ◼   ► of whether this is better, worse, or the same.

00:28:40 ◼   ► But to start, I bet people are not going to buy

00:28:44 ◼   ► such a tremendous number of Qi chargers

00:28:46 ◼   ► that they are now charging their phone

00:28:48 ◼   ► appreciably more than they used to, if only because Qi chargers charge your phone so much

00:28:52 ◼   ► more slowly, and one of the things that shortens battery life is really fast charging.

00:28:56 ◼   ► So if you have a big iPad charger at your desk that you plug your thing into to get

00:29:00 ◼   ► as much juice as possible when you're at your desk, versus putting it on a Qi charger that

00:29:04 ◼   ► charges much more slowly, the slower one is going to be kinder on your battery.

00:29:09 ◼   ► But it won't charge as much, obviously, in the same amount of time.

00:29:11 ◼   ► But if you have a bunch of Qi chargers around the house, what you're instead doing, instead

00:29:14 ◼   ► of charging very quickly in one location, you're charging more slowly in multiple locations,

00:29:18 ◼   ► which again I think is better for the battery.

00:29:20 ◼   ► So there's, you know, you'd really need to come up

00:29:23 ◼   ► with an exact regime of where you're going to be

00:29:25 ◼   ► and what you're going to charge

00:29:27 ◼   ► to compare exactly this pattern of use

00:29:29 ◼   ► to exactly this pattern of use.

00:29:31 ◼   ► But in general, I would say, don't worry about this.

00:29:34 ◼   ► Don't worry about the battery life being affected

00:29:37 ◼   ► because there are just so many variables

00:29:39 ◼   ► and depending on how they're each weighted

00:29:41 ◼   ► in this giant equation, you can get better, worse

00:29:43 ◼   ► at the same battery life.

00:29:44 ◼   ► But like Marco said, either way,

00:29:47 ◼   ► If you use your phone the same amount every day,

00:29:50 ◼   ► that's in the end, you're using your phone that amount.

00:29:53 ◼   ► It's got two or three years of that many cycles.

00:29:56 ◼   ► Even if you don't cycle all the way,

00:29:57 ◼   ► two or three years of just that much,

00:29:59 ◼   ► putting energy into the battery and taking energy out,

00:30:01 ◼   ► even if you always do it in the fat part of the curb

00:30:03 ◼   ► where it's all good,

00:30:04 ◼   ► your battery is gonna be a lot worse

00:30:06 ◼   ► than it was when you bought it

00:30:07 ◼   ► and you're probably gonna want a new phone

00:30:08 ◼   ► and that's just the way things are.

00:30:09 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:30:12 ◼   ► All right, JT would like to know,

00:30:14 ◼   ► what are your thoughts and feelings

00:30:15 ◼   ► Apple TV remote redesigned for AirPower and to fix other issues.

00:30:19 ◼   ► You know, a lot of people have been writing in about, "What about this for AirPower?"

00:30:22 ◼   ► Our—AirPower.

00:30:24 ◼   ► What about that for AirPower?

00:30:25 ◼   ► I don't get it.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Like I think I said this last episode, but I will be very surprised if anything else

00:30:32 ◼   ► gets AirPower support, except maybe the pencil, anytime soon.

00:30:35 ◼   ► I don't think this is going to be like the catch-all, you know, cover your—all of your

00:30:40 ◼   ► desks and all of your, you know, kitchen counters and AirPower sort of thing.

00:30:44 ◼   ► I think this is only going to be for iOS devices and, you know, the AirPods and, and, and I

00:30:51 ◼   ► guess watchOS is strictly speaking a different OS, but you know what I mean?

00:30:54 ◼   ► Like, I don't think it's going to be keyboard and mouse and Apple TV remote and any of those

00:30:58 ◼   ► things.

00:30:59 ◼   ► And MacBook.

00:31:00 ◼   ► And MacBook.

00:31:01 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:31:02 ◼   ► And especially like the Apple TV remote, I've charged that thing probably four times or

00:31:06 ◼   ► feels like I've charged it four times in the year I've had it.

00:31:10 ◼   ► may not be accurate, but my point is just it almost never needs a charge. Same with

00:31:15 ◼   ► my keyboards and my mice, mouses, Mises. They almost never need a charge. So what are you

00:31:22 ◼   ► really solving if it's at worst a momentary inconvenience, once a quarter or something

00:31:30 ◼   ► like that? But I don't know, what do you think Marco?

00:31:32 ◼   ► >> Marco: Pretty much the same. I mean, I have not, you know, we use our Apple TV almost

00:31:35 ◼   ► almost every day, at least we did before we got stuck

00:31:39 ◼   ► in Stardew Valley.

00:31:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:31:41 ◼   ► And yeah, I think I've charged it, yeah,

00:31:43 ◼   ► maybe three times.

00:31:45 ◼   ► It's not a high-drain device.

00:31:48 ◼   ► So the need to make charging especially convenient

00:31:51 ◼   ► is not that high.

00:31:53 ◼   ► Also, that tends to be a different place in your house

00:31:56 ◼   ► or your office, or you have one in your office,

00:31:59 ◼   ► and you tend not to travel with it.

00:32:00 ◼   ► So if the benefit of an AirPower, Matt,

00:32:02 ◼   ► is the thing that you stick on your nightstand table

00:32:04 ◼   ► you put all your stuff on at night,

00:32:06 ◼   ► well, you're probably not gonna have your Apple TV remote

00:32:09 ◼   ► in your bedroom if your Apple TV is not there.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Similarly, if the appeal of this thing ends up being

00:32:14 ◼   ► literally convenient while traveling,

00:32:16 ◼   ► you're probably not gonna travel

00:32:17 ◼   ► with your Apple TV remote either.

00:32:19 ◼   ► And if you do, you probably won't need

00:32:20 ◼   ► to charge it on the trip.

00:32:21 ◼   ► So, you know, it's a nice theory,

00:32:24 ◼   ► but I don't think it matters that much.

00:32:27 ◼   ► The Apple TV remote has so many other problems

00:32:30 ◼   ► that they refuse to address.

00:32:32 ◼   ► So if they're not even gonna bother making it usable

00:32:34 ◼   ► while it's charged, I don't think they're gonna care

00:32:36 ◼   ► that much that it's slightly inconvenient to charge it

00:32:40 ◼   ► when you do it every six months.

00:32:42 ◼   ► - I frequently forget that the Apple TV remote

00:32:45 ◼   ► has a battery.

00:32:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:32:47 ◼   ► - Because it's so small and it's not like

00:32:49 ◼   ► there's a battery door and it like,

00:32:51 ◼   ► I'm not sure if I have ever charged my Apple,

00:32:55 ◼   ► I think I replaced my Apple TV before I charged

00:32:57 ◼   ► the battery on it, it lasts,

00:32:59 ◼   ► I don't use it as much as Marco obviously,

00:33:01 ◼   ► it lasts a really, really long time.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Although I have two quick Apple TV remote stories.

00:33:06 ◼   ► The last time I lost it, I'm always losing the Apple TV remote because it's skinny and

00:33:10 ◼   ► it goes down, couch cushion and stuff like that.

00:33:13 ◼   ► My kids use it and so it's not like, who knows, but they carry it into the kitchen, it's in

00:33:18 ◼   ► the bathroom, who knows where they're taking this remote?

00:33:20 ◼   ► It's just everywhere, right?

00:33:21 ◼   ► And there's no, as far as I'm aware, please tell me if I'm wrong, there's no like find

00:33:24 ◼   ► your remote function where you can make a beeping sound, I would love that.

00:33:29 ◼   ► That's a feature they should have.

00:33:30 ◼   ► But anyway, I lost my remote and I thought, like, this is it, I've well and truly lost

00:33:36 ◼   ► it.

00:33:37 ◼   ► And I was thinking, like, boy, I'm glad they reduced the price to $60 down from 80, because

00:33:39 ◼   ► I'm going to have to buy another remote.

00:33:42 ◼   ► And even though you've got the remote on your iOS device where you can use that instead

00:33:45 ◼   ► of the thing, as far as I'm aware, you can't – can you wake your thing from sleep with

00:33:49 ◼   ► that?

00:33:50 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:33:51 ◼   ► I didn't try it, but I was like, ugh, like, I think I can't use my Apple TV until I get

00:33:54 ◼   ► to replace a remote, because I don't think you can wake the little black cube from sleep

00:33:59 ◼   ► without the real remote. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can. If you try to airplay to it, I

00:34:04 ◼   ► believe it'll wake itself up. Oh yeah, that's a good, that's a good, yeah. I was

00:34:07 ◼   ► thinking like... I would guess the remote app would let you do it, but I can't, I

00:34:10 ◼   ► haven't tried it, so I don't know one way or the other, but I can tell you I'll

00:34:13 ◼   ► airplay to it from time to time and that will wake it up. Right, anyway, I was

00:34:17 ◼   ► halfway through that thought when I looked up at my little black thing and

00:34:20 ◼   ► the little white light was on. So like, you know, I don't have to wake it up. It's

00:34:25 ◼   ► already awake. And I'm like, but how can it already be awake? I've been looking

00:34:28 ◼   ► for this remote for 15 minutes and I know it goes to sleep like no one has been in this

00:34:31 ◼   ► room for a while."

00:34:33 ◼   ► And based on that information, I realized I must be sitting on the remote somehow.

00:34:39 ◼   ► And that's what's waking the thing up.

00:34:41 ◼   ► And sure enough, I took yet another run at the couch cushions and the little things that

00:34:45 ◼   ► are between them.

00:34:46 ◼   ► It's just like a sleeper sofa or whatever.

00:34:47 ◼   ► And eventually, I found the remote somewhere underneath my butt where I was squishing it

00:34:51 ◼   ► and turning it on.

00:34:52 ◼   ► And the second story is about someone had realized there was a bunch of iTunes purchases

00:34:56 ◼   ► going through where they'd purchase like every episode of Seinfeld and a bunch of TV series.

00:34:59 ◼   ► And there was like a husband and wife and they were asking each other, "Did you buy

00:35:03 ◼   ► these? Did you buy these things?" Turns out it was the cat. The cat would lay on top of

00:35:07 ◼   ► the remote and buy things for them on the turned off television through their Apple

00:35:11 ◼   ► TV remote. So I don't know if that makes us a bad remote or a good remote. It's bad because

00:35:16 ◼   ► it's lost easily. It's probably bad because a cat can buy things, but maybe not. Like,

00:35:22 ◼   ► are very devious. Oh my word. All right. And Kent Akungar writes, "How can Apple do such

00:35:32 ◼   ► amazing complicated things with software like face detection and AR, yet still get so many

00:35:37 ◼   ► simple things consistently wrong, like one plus one or one plus two plus three on the

00:35:41 ◼   ► iOS calculator and UI bugs related to device orientation, such as the attached?" We'll

00:35:46 ◼   ► We'll put a link in the show notes.

00:35:48 ◼   ► And it's a picture of what appears to be the phone or iPad,

00:35:53 ◼   ► I think phone in portrait mode,

00:35:56 ◼   ► yet the volume indicator is shown in landscape.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Whoops.

00:36:01 ◼   ► With regard to rotation,

00:36:04 ◼   ► I can say that rotation's a pain in the butt.

00:36:07 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:36:08 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:36:09 ◼   ► - Any iOS developer will tell you that.

00:36:10 ◼   ► So that I give them a buy on.

00:36:12 ◼   ► - Although it does seem that there are a lot more

00:36:14 ◼   ► rotation bugs in iOS 11 than there were before?

00:36:17 ◼   ► - There's a lot more everything bugs in iOS 11

00:36:21 ◼   ► than there have been in a while.

00:36:23 ◼   ► But yeah, you're right.

00:36:24 ◼   ► I don't have a good answer for this.

00:36:26 ◼   ► I guess to some degree it's easy to get amazed

00:36:31 ◼   ► by the new and shiny and it's hard to build software

00:36:36 ◼   ► reliably and predictably.

00:36:39 ◼   ► That's why agile software development became a thing

00:36:44 ◼   ► was it was an attempt to be better about building,

00:36:48 ◼   ► be better about predicting when software would be complete.

00:36:51 ◼   ► And the whole shtick of it was that you

00:36:54 ◼   ► wanted to be able to predict the future based

00:36:57 ◼   ► on your performance in the past, rather than, oh, well,

00:37:00 ◼   ► I should be able to get that done in two weeks.

00:37:02 ◼   ► You can look at your past history and say, no, actually,

00:37:04 ◼   ► that'll take you a month and a half.

00:37:06 ◼   ► And all of the stuff around enterprise-level software

00:37:11 ◼   ► development, which I know Marco doesn't understand, but John and I do. It's hard. It's hard work.

00:37:18 ◼   ► It's hard to figure out the balance between how many unit tests you should write and how

00:37:23 ◼   ► many you shouldn't and what your continuous integration story is. All of this stuff is

00:37:27 ◼   ► hard and it's not, to most people, it's not very sexy. And so what is sexy? Face detection.

00:37:33 ◼   ► What is sexy? Augmented reality. What's not sexy? Jenkins. So it's understandable, if

00:37:40 ◼   ► if not necessarily excusable, that this would be the case. But I don't know. John, as my

00:37:44 ◼   ► fellow boring old man when it comes to writing software, how do you describe this?

00:37:49 ◼   ► John

00:38:10 ◼   ► And it's just human nature and priorities.

00:38:14 ◼   ► And with anything where you, especially in a business like Apple's, where you're—it's

00:38:19 ◼   ► not that it's a hit-driven business, but that you're only as good as your last success.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Things like the calculated iOS calculator bug, where some animations in the calculator

00:38:30 ◼   ► caused it to be less responsive, right?

00:38:33 ◼   ► How many people are scrutinizing how good the calculator is from release to release?

00:38:37 ◼   ► It's not a headlining feature.

00:38:38 ◼   ► are not a lot of resources put towards the calculator. When it was first made, there

00:38:42 ◼   ► was probably more than there are now, but there is an inclination in companies that

00:38:46 ◼   ► have to make money to say, "We'll put time and resources and people into this thing,

00:38:52 ◼   ► because it's the thing that we need, and then when we're done with it, we'll be like,

00:38:55 ◼   ► 'Great, we did that. What's the next thing? Move on to the next thing,' right? And take

00:38:59 ◼   ► people off of that and say, 'Those people are working on it.'" And you have to leave

00:39:01 ◼   ► somebody there, but there's some poor maintenance engineer responsible for the calculator and

00:39:05 ◼   ► seven other neglected iOS applications. And people are human and you don't notice that

00:39:11 ◼   ► maybe the animations you're adding are making the thing less responsive because, like, do

00:39:17 ◼   ► you have a test where something, some automated thing presses the buttons really fast and

00:39:21 ◼   ► makes it, you know, it's just less important. It's lower priority. There are fewer people

00:39:26 ◼   ► on it. And that's just the nature of humans, the nature of work, and the nature of a business.

00:39:32 ◼   ► So many, many things are explicable by the boring answer that we did that and we can't

00:39:42 ◼   ► afford to leave our very best engineers maintaining the calculator for the rest of their careers

00:39:47 ◼   ► because they're not going to like that and they're going to leave the company.

00:39:50 ◼   ► And it wouldn't be efficient use of our resources.

00:39:52 ◼   ► So we get our best people working on the next hard problem and everything else gets less

00:39:57 ◼   ► priority.

00:39:59 ◼   ► And because humans are humans, sometimes those things mess up.

00:40:02 ◼   ► Everything after that, that's like the easy thing to explain, everything after that, like

00:40:05 ◼   ► why does iOS 11 have more bugs, does it seem like it actually has more bugs, is your perception

00:40:09 ◼   ► different than their metrics, are they measuring the wrong thing, all the way down to software

00:40:13 ◼   ► is hard and software methodologies and all that stuff.

00:40:15 ◼   ► So from the outside it might seem inexplicable, but as Casey I think was trying to express,

00:40:23 ◼   ► software in any large enterprise, including making a car or any sort of thing, is much

00:40:27 ◼   ► more complicated than you think it is as a consumer of that thing, and complicated system

00:40:32 ◼   ► are hard to predict and hard to manage, and that's it.

00:40:37 ◼   ► There's no, it's not that Apple is being mean,

00:40:41 ◼   ► or it's still people who don't know what they're doing.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Nobody knows what they're doing.

00:40:45 ◼   ► There are no adults, there is no silver bullet, yada yada.

00:40:49 ◼   ► - Apple has, for a very long time,

00:40:52 ◼   ► shown that they are not very good at multitasking,

00:40:55 ◼   ► and that whatever is the current hotness

00:40:58 ◼   ► gets all the attention, and whatever isn't

00:41:01 ◼   ► gets either complete neglect or at best drive-by updates,

00:41:05 ◼   ► where they, like, disk utility on Mac OS is a great example

00:41:11 ◼   ► of it, where the entire Mac is pretty neglected

00:41:16 ◼   ► much of the time, and when things do get updated on the Mac,

00:41:19 ◼   ► they tend to get updated in these drive-by fashions

00:41:22 ◼   ► where someone seems to be assigned, like,

00:41:25 ◼   ► "Hey, wait, rewrite this whole thing, this app

00:41:27 ◼   ► "that nobody was really needing to be rewritten.

00:41:29 ◼   ► "Rewrite it all."

00:41:30 ◼   ► and then they're given enough time to rush together

00:41:32 ◼   ► an almost complete version, and then it ships,

00:41:35 ◼   ► and then it seems like no one's allowed to fix

00:41:37 ◼   ► any bugs in it ever again,

00:41:39 ◼   ► or they're not on the project anymore,

00:41:41 ◼   ► or they don't have the time,

00:41:42 ◼   ► or they're assigned to other things and have moved on.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And so things get updated or created from scratch

00:41:48 ◼   ► in these low-priority areas,

00:41:50 ◼   ► and then whatever is released as 1.0,

00:41:54 ◼   ► which was probably rushed to meet a very tight deadline,

00:41:58 ◼   ► those bugs basically stick around

00:41:59 ◼   ► for a very long time or forever.

00:42:01 ◼   ► Anything that is not the current hotness,

00:42:03 ◼   ► that tends to be the case with Apple.

00:42:06 ◼   ► As John said, there are lots of good reasons for that

00:42:08 ◼   ► involving money and priorities.

00:42:10 ◼   ► I think Apple's standards should be higher.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Apple's standards are higher than average

00:42:15 ◼   ► in most other ways.

00:42:17 ◼   ► I think their standards for how to deal with their

00:42:20 ◼   ► not as quite high priority products

00:42:22 ◼   ► should be also similarly high, but they're not.

00:42:26 ◼   ► and that's not a new thing.

00:42:28 ◼   ► That isn't even a Tim Cook thing.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Even under Steve, that was always the case.

00:42:32 ◼   ► Whatever was not the current hotness

00:42:35 ◼   ► got pretty badly neglected.

00:42:38 ◼   ► And there's also a secondary divide here

00:42:42 ◼   ► where Apple's frameworks have almost always been

00:42:46 ◼   ► really, really good.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Like in the entire era of modern Apple,

00:42:51 ◼   ► I don't know what it was like before OS X,

00:42:53 ◼   ► or like in the entire era of modern Apple,

00:42:56 ◼   ► The frameworks have always been amazing.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Things like the ARKit, things like Core Image,

00:43:02 ◼   ► Core Audio, the Foundation, all that stuff,

00:43:04 ◼   ► they make amazing frameworks,

00:43:06 ◼   ► and that stuff has been solid pretty much

00:43:09 ◼   ► the vast majority of the time and very advanced.

00:43:12 ◼   ► The applications that Apple shipped with the OS

00:43:15 ◼   ► and that they built on top of those frameworks

00:43:18 ◼   ► have had a much spottier past

00:43:19 ◼   ► and a much spottier record.

00:43:22 ◼   ► The applications definitely seem

00:43:23 ◼   ► like a lower priority for them.

00:43:25 ◼   ► That also seems like an area where in recent years,

00:43:28 ◼   ► applications have struggled way more

00:43:30 ◼   ► than the foundation stuff.

00:43:33 ◼   ► So it might just be Apple has not figured out

00:43:37 ◼   ► how to manage this well.

00:43:38 ◼   ► Certainly that's what the results seem to indicate.

00:43:42 ◼   ► - But it's like that for everybody.

00:43:45 ◼   ► You can't just say, oh, let's keep all the best people

00:43:47 ◼   ► working on the things that they originally create

00:43:49 ◼   ► because they don't want to and now it's a retention issue.

00:43:51 ◼   ► They don't want to work forever on this one thing

00:43:54 ◼   ► help create, they want to move on to the next thing because they're smart, ambitious people.

00:43:58 ◼   ► And if you don't let them, then you'll have a retention problem.

00:44:04 ◼   ► Even if you—it's a hyper-competitive world where everyone is scrutinizing what Apple

00:44:09 ◼   ► does so closely that if they actually did leave significant sort of standing armies

00:44:14 ◼   ► attached to everything they ever made to make sure that everything they make is continuously

00:44:19 ◼   ► improved and maintained, that's an inefficient use of resources.

00:44:23 ◼   ► are you spending all this money? Why are your margins going down? Oh, we needed to leave

00:44:27 ◼   ► a team of seven on the calculator forever and multiply that by every piece of software

00:44:32 ◼   ► we ever make. It's like, well, isn't the calculator done? What needs to be updated on it? It's

00:44:36 ◼   ► like, well, if we just leave one person on it, then there's a chance that that one person

00:44:40 ◼   ► can make a silly mistake and make us look bad. And so everything has to be higher quality.

00:44:44 ◼   ► So we'll leave, you know, we'll leave this team of seven on calculator. And no matter

00:44:48 ◼   ► what team of seven you leave on calculator, they won't want to do it. And like, a lot

00:44:52 ◼   ► of these things you feel like they're a training program for less experienced people. Like

00:44:57 ◼   ► before you get to be in the big show and, you know, work on a super important new feature

00:45:02 ◼   ► in UIKit or work on a major new feature in the OS, maybe you have to maintain disk utility

00:45:06 ◼   ► for a few years and that's how you learn, right? Like there's no easy solution. People

00:45:12 ◼   ► are not interchangeable cogs. Programming is a complicated endeavor and Apple doesn't

00:45:18 ◼   ► actually have unlimited money and does actually have people scrutinizing every cent that it

00:45:24 ◼   ► spends and telling them that they should have margins that are higher than they do. So,

00:45:29 ◼   ► you know, I don't know, there's, you know, there's a spectrum. It's not as if it's saying,

00:45:35 ◼   ► "Oh, everything Apple's doing, they're doing as well as they can." They can and should adjust

00:45:38 ◼   ► things, right? They can and should pay more attention to things that, you know, they shouldn't

00:45:44 ◼   ► shouldn't let as much slip as they do.

00:45:46 ◼   ► And they should not be penny-wise, pound-foolish, where, "Oh, we saved a couple of bucks here

00:45:50 ◼   ► by moving some people around.

00:45:53 ◼   ► What are the potential downsides for the image of the company?"

00:45:57 ◼   ► All the way up to, "What are the potential downsides if we invest a lot in a feature

00:46:01 ◼   ► and spend a lot of time and energy on it and it doesn't turn out that well?

00:46:05 ◼   ► How do we fix that?"

00:46:06 ◼   ► And insert your favorite feature there, whether it be the touch bar or the new keyboard reliability

00:46:10 ◼   ► or any other thing where they really did dedicate a lot of resources and it doesn't turn out

00:46:15 ◼   ► as well as they wanted. Like, "Your software is hard. Life is hard."

00:46:20 ◼   ► Yeah, but I think there's also a middle ground here. Like, the impression I have gotten

00:46:25 ◼   ► from reports from people within over the last many years—this seems to always be a consistent

00:46:32 ◼   ► story that we hear from people at Apple—is that it's not like there were seven people

00:46:37 ◼   ► on the calculator team and they reduce it down

00:46:40 ◼   ► or they couldn't have those people forever

00:46:42 ◼   ► or that it was done.

00:46:43 ◼   ► None of the things were true.

00:46:44 ◼   ► What was probably true is the calculator had zero people

00:46:48 ◼   ► working on it for a very long time.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Then when a new system design or style

00:46:53 ◼   ► or marketing heavy feature was being added to iOS

00:46:56 ◼   ► or new hardware, somebody who was already very busy

00:47:00 ◼   ► was tasked with updating this app

00:47:02 ◼   ► along with probably as you mentioned,

00:47:04 ◼   ► probably like seven other apps

00:47:05 ◼   ► to the new animation style or the new design style

00:47:08 ◼   ► or take advantage of the new feature of the phone

00:47:10 ◼   ► or just the new size of these phones or whatever else.

00:47:13 ◼   ► So that was someone's job.

00:47:14 ◼   ► They had enough time to do a 2/3 complete job

00:47:18 ◼   ► 'cause they had to rush to meet the deadline

00:47:20 ◼   ► for when this OS and phone shipped.

00:47:22 ◼   ► And then after it shipped,

00:47:24 ◼   ► the staff was returned back to zero people.

00:47:26 ◼   ► We have heard that story so many times from people inside.

00:47:32 ◼   ► So it isn't that things are just done

00:47:35 ◼   ► and that the market's demanding that they,

00:47:37 ◼   ► or that all of a sudden they're undone.

00:47:40 ◼   ► It's following marketing features,

00:47:42 ◼   ► they have to keep things updated,

00:47:44 ◼   ► and they keep seemingly very, very small staffs

00:47:48 ◼   ► available to do things that aren't high priority apps

00:47:51 ◼   ► or features or platforms, like the calculator app,

00:47:54 ◼   ► or like the Mac.

00:47:56 ◼   ► And then as soon as that thing is done,

00:48:00 ◼   ► the budget of time allocation that's available

00:48:05 ◼   ► to fix bugs in it literally drops to zero.

00:48:08 ◼   ► Not some, zero.

00:48:09 ◼   ► That is a management problem.

00:48:12 ◼   ► That needs to be adjusted.

00:48:15 ◼   ► - Well, there are perverse incentives, too.

00:48:17 ◼   ► - And yeah, and we've heard that, too.

00:48:20 ◼   ► We've heard a lot of reports also from people

00:48:23 ◼   ► that one of the issues that causes this kind of thing

00:48:27 ◼   ► and leads to this kind of thing

00:48:28 ◼   ► is the incentive structure in the company

00:48:31 ◼   ► seemingly favors rewriting large projects

00:48:34 ◼   ► or being on high profile platforms

00:48:36 ◼   ► and doesn't favor doing more boring things

00:48:39 ◼   ► that still need to be done.

00:48:40 ◼   ► And that's also a management problem.

00:48:42 ◼   ► Like they need to find ways to adjust

00:48:46 ◼   ► their internal structures and policies

00:48:49 ◼   ► and workflows and incentives

00:48:51 ◼   ► to make high quality platforms and apps

00:48:56 ◼   ► happen more often than they do.

00:48:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, the incentive that I was thinking of was

00:49:00 ◼   ► if you're tasked with doing something

00:49:04 ◼   ► with calculator, or if you're one person who's responsible for seven applications in the

00:49:08 ◼   ► max utility folder or something, you're not particularly incentivized to slowly make the

00:49:16 ◼   ► thing better by adding a feature here and a feature there.

00:49:19 ◼   ► Because like, you know, take the terminal for example.

00:49:22 ◼   ► Terminal it only always amazes me when the terminal gets any features, because the downsides

00:49:25 ◼   ► are big.

00:49:26 ◼   ► If you mess up the terminal it's a thing that a lot of people use and they're going to yell

00:49:28 ◼   ► at you, and if terminal is working fine, like why add any minor features to it, because

00:49:33 ◼   ► all you're doing is adding more bug surface.

00:49:38 ◼   ► Like, oh, I added a silly feature to terminal,

00:49:40 ◼   ► and now I have 17 bug reports on it,

00:49:42 ◼   ► and I don't have any time to work on it

00:49:43 ◼   ► 'cause I'm off doing other things now,

00:49:45 ◼   ► and I'm the one person who's responsible for terminal

00:49:47 ◼   ► and seven other applications.

00:49:48 ◼   ► I'm not motivated to add features to terminal

00:49:51 ◼   ► and justify them and say why I had to spend

00:49:53 ◼   ► engineering time on them, because every feature I add

00:49:56 ◼   ► is a new thing that people can file bugs against.

00:49:58 ◼   ► And if we just leave it the way it is,

00:50:00 ◼   ► we've got our existing bug backlog

00:50:02 ◼   ► that we're probably just ignoring forever

00:50:03 ◼   ► if we haven't fixed it by now, and there's nothing new to do.

00:50:06 ◼   ► And what you were getting at is being on the glory projects.

00:50:09 ◼   ► Like no one ever says, wow, this guy's great.

00:50:12 ◼   ► He's slowly improved the terminal over the course of eight years

00:50:15 ◼   ► and has had very few bugs in every new feature

00:50:17 ◼   ► that he added versus this person worked on the first version of Watchkit.

00:50:21 ◼   ► One of those probably helps your career inside Apple more than the other.

00:50:25 ◼   ► But from the outside perspective, especially if you never buy a watch,

00:50:28 ◼   ► I would love a slowly improving terminal that had the equivalent of one or two

00:50:33 ◼   ► Motivated indie developers working on it who like terminal was their entire livelihood and they had that kind of motivation

00:50:38 ◼   ► But that doesn't exist inside Apple no one inside Apple is

00:50:41 ◼   ► Going to work on terminal the same way like that the I term authors are gonna work on their thing as if their entire livelihood

00:50:47 ◼   ► Depends on constantly improving and maintaining the terminal application

00:50:51 ◼   ► Which you know is a shame, but there's that's it's not really

00:50:56 ◼   ► I don't know everyone always says I want we want to make it like a startup inside a big company

00:51:00 ◼   ► But I've never seen that done successfully

00:51:02 ◼   ► Well, I mean the thing of it is is that

00:51:04 ◼   ► My limited understanding of what the culture is like within Apple is that they still fancy themselves the plucky upstart and

00:51:13 ◼   ► they're not they're just not and

00:51:16 ◼   ► How do you maintain and both you've got the both of you guys have said this

00:51:21 ◼   ► How do you maintain any sort of talent at the company when part of being good at what you do is?

00:51:26 ◼   ► Being good at the boring stuff and it's just it's hard

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00:53:16 ◼   ► - So last year, I'm pretty sure single-handedly,

00:53:23 ◼   ► Marco came up with a genuinely brilliant idea

00:53:25 ◼   ► to do a little bit of a Thanksgiving special and ask and have each of us describe what

00:53:32 ◼   ► tech stuff we are thankful for this year. And I really, really loved how that turned

00:53:39 ◼   ► out and so did a lot of listeners. And so Marco, you were good enough to remember to

00:53:43 ◼   ► talk about it again this year. So Marco, what tech stuff are you thankful for this year?

00:53:47 ◼   ► Marco: I wanted to keep the list pretty short this year. I'm used to running a long time,

00:53:52 ◼   ► - You've only got four items,

00:53:53 ◼   ► but there's a tie for number three.

00:53:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:53:57 ◼   ► - Well done, sir.

00:53:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I actually do have four items.

00:54:01 ◼   ► So one of them is my wonderful, beloved 2015 MacBook Pro.

00:54:05 ◼   ► We will get to that in more detail later.

00:54:08 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:54:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:54:11 ◼   ► - Look, I just love it.

00:54:12 ◼   ► I wrote a whole blog post about how much I love it.

00:54:14 ◼   ► It's great.

00:54:15 ◼   ► And it is exactly what tech should be,

00:54:18 ◼   ► which is it just works, it delights me,

00:54:22 ◼   ► and I don't really have to think about it if I don't want to.

00:54:24 ◼   ► It just works.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Also in the world of Apple hardware,

00:54:28 ◼   ► I am incredibly happy with the 10.5 inch iPad Pro

00:54:33 ◼   ► and the smart keyboard that I bought with it.

00:54:37 ◼   ► You know, I don't use my iPad for very complicated things,

00:54:41 ◼   ► but I do use it frequently.

00:54:42 ◼   ► Every day I use it.

00:54:43 ◼   ► It's always in the kitchen or on the table or on the couch.

00:54:47 ◼   ► And every day I use it to not only play podcasts

00:54:51 ◼   ► in the kitchen and dining area,

00:54:53 ◼   ► but then I will often then use it

00:54:55 ◼   ► as my couch browsing device and things like that,

00:54:57 ◼   ► and it's just very pleasant to use.

00:54:59 ◼   ► I'm not an iPad power user by any means,

00:55:02 ◼   ► I still bring a laptop when I'm working,

00:55:04 ◼   ► but when I'm doing anything that's not really work,

00:55:06 ◼   ► especially around the house, the iPad is wonderful.

00:55:08 ◼   ► And the 10.5 inch was such a great update in so many ways.

00:55:12 ◼   ► The screen size is great,

00:55:14 ◼   ► and especially once you see it next to a 9.7,

00:55:17 ◼   ► again, you realize quite how much of an improvement it was.

00:55:20 ◼   ► It seemed like a pretty small improvement at the time,

00:55:22 ◼   ► but it's really nice.

00:55:23 ◼   ► So it's a great device.

00:55:25 ◼   ► I always have it propped up in the smart keyboard,

00:55:27 ◼   ► so text entry is nice and fast on it if I need that.

00:55:30 ◼   ► And it's just, it's great.

00:55:32 ◼   ► I'm very, very happy with my iPad Pro 10.5.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Third, I will add the general category

00:55:39 ◼   ► of power and charging gear by Anker.

00:55:42 ◼   ► This is, you know, it's not that new of an opinion

00:55:46 ◼   ► to like Anker gear.

00:55:48 ◼   ► The world of dealing with our tech these days,

00:55:51 ◼   ► especially iOS devices with lightning ports

00:55:54 ◼   ► and everything else,

00:55:55 ◼   ► things become a lot more convenient and easier

00:55:57 ◼   ► and more pleasant when you can get plentiful charging

00:56:02 ◼   ► and powering gear for not that much money

00:56:05 ◼   ► and that's pretty high quality.

00:56:07 ◼   ► And Anker is not the only brand that does this,

00:56:08 ◼   ► but I think they are the brand that does the most of it

00:56:10 ◼   ► and the most consistently.

00:56:11 ◼   ► And so very, very happy with Anker gear,

00:56:14 ◼   ► both like the multi-USB port wall chargers,

00:56:18 ◼   ► Their standalone batteries are also great,

00:56:21 ◼   ► and of course their heavy-duty braided cables,

00:56:24 ◼   ► lightning cables are great,

00:56:25 ◼   ► and they cost so little, relatively speaking,

00:56:28 ◼   ► that you can have a bunch of them,

00:56:29 ◼   ► and you can put them all over your house,

00:56:31 ◼   ► you can carry extras around in bags,

00:56:33 ◼   ► and you can set up different charging stations,

00:56:35 ◼   ► different rooms in different places,

00:56:37 ◼   ► like your office and your house and your car.

00:56:39 ◼   ► It's just really, really nice

00:56:40 ◼   ► to have all that stuff become inexpensive and good.

00:56:44 ◼   ► It really makes our digital lives

00:56:47 ◼   ► with all these charging things a lot easier.

00:56:49 ◼   ► And finally, special honorable mention

00:56:51 ◼   ► to everything I have ever bought

00:56:53 ◼   ► from the company Sound Devices.

00:56:56 ◼   ► This is very specialized.

00:56:58 ◼   ► If you are not a sound or video pro,

00:57:00 ◼   ► you probably have never heard of this company

00:57:02 ◼   ► and you probably shouldn't ever hear about this company.

00:57:04 ◼   ► But if you work with sound or video gear,

00:57:07 ◼   ► well, I haven't used their video stuff.

00:57:08 ◼   ► If you work with sound gear at all,

00:57:10 ◼   ► the devices by Sound Devices are not cheap at all,

00:57:14 ◼   ► But this is truly pro gear.

00:57:17 ◼   ► I use a USB pre two for recording here.

00:57:20 ◼   ► For our live show and for my increasing live

00:57:24 ◼   ► and multi port needs, I recently splurged

00:57:27 ◼   ► and bought one of their six series mixers.

00:57:29 ◼   ► Their stuff is just so damn good and it just works.

00:57:34 ◼   ► This is true pro gear.

00:57:36 ◼   ► And it's total overkill for most podcasters.

00:57:39 ◼   ► But it's the exact definition of like,

00:57:40 ◼   ► if you have a problem and you are willing

00:57:43 ◼   ► to just throw some money at it to make that problem

00:57:46 ◼   ► completely go away?

00:57:48 ◼   ► Sound devices, trust me.

00:57:51 ◼   ► Anyway, that's it.

00:57:52 ◼   ► - All right, so we can go in either surname or age order,

00:57:57 ◼   ► and either way that makes me next.

00:57:58 ◼   ► And so I will run through my list.

00:58:01 ◼   ► I will try to do this as quickly as possible.

00:58:04 ◼   ► In no particular order, AirPods, I freaking love my AirPods.

00:58:09 ◼   ► And I was just thinking a couple hours ago

00:58:12 ◼   ► how, as far as I can tell, I haven't noticed any particular degradation in battery quality,

00:58:21 ◼   ► despite the fact that these things have been in my ears for a probably concerning amount

00:58:25 ◼   ► of time, particularly during the work week.

00:58:29 ◼   ► And I think that's partially because any time I take them out of my ears, they're immediately

00:58:32 ◼   ► charging.

00:58:33 ◼   ► So, although I said no particular order, I lied because that is definitely number one.

00:58:38 ◼   ► The remainder, however, is not in any particular order.

00:58:41 ◼   ► CarPlay, believe it or not, and this surprises even me, it's got a lot of problems.

00:58:45 ◼   ► It is not perfect by any stretch.

00:58:47 ◼   ► But it is very, very nice, and I like that I can take pretty much any iOS device, plug

00:58:53 ◼   ► it into Erin's car, and immediately I have the entire device's experience in her center

00:59:01 ◼   ► console.

00:59:02 ◼   ► So that's really convenient because my phone isn't mated paired to her car via Bluetooth,

00:59:09 ◼   ► But I can try to find an address to somewhere in Apple Maps and get the directions ready

00:59:16 ◼   ► to go, plug in my phone, and suddenly she's got my navigation on her car, which is super

00:59:20 ◼   ► cool.

00:59:22 ◼   ► I believe in laptops that were built in this century, so I love my MacBook Adorable.

00:59:27 ◼   ► Again, it's got problems, but I love it.

00:59:31 ◼   ► And the problems it has—

00:59:32 ◼   ► It's slower than my ancient laptop by quite a margin.

00:59:34 ◼   ► That's one of the problems, coincidentally.

00:59:37 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, it is not perfect.

00:59:40 ◼   ► And as I think I've said many times in the past, if this was my only computer, I'm not

00:59:45 ◼   ► sure I would have such fond feelings for it.

00:59:47 ◼   ► But in the same way you have such fond feelings for your 10-inch iPad Pro, I have tremendously

00:59:52 ◼   ► fond feelings for this MacBook Adorable, because it is, to me anyway, the ultimate travel computer.

01:00:00 ◼   ► And that can mean the couch, or it can mean a cross-country trip.

01:00:04 ◼   ► And I just love this thing.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Also on the list, in the process of filming the Alfa Romeo video, which I have a first

01:00:15 ◼   ► draft complete and I'm now refining it, anyway, in the process of filming that I borrowed

01:00:20 ◼   ► a GoPro from Mork, which I think I've mentioned in the past, turns out GoPros are really cool.

01:00:25 ◼   ► And if you're in a situation where you want to have a pretty decent camera, that if for

01:00:30 ◼   ► some reason it broke you wouldn't be financially ruined and you want to do something with that

01:00:34 ◼   ► camera like mount it to the outside of a car or put it somewhere there that there's not a lot of

01:00:39 ◼   ► room. The GoPros are really really cool. Very much a niche use case but man are they a great

01:00:46 ◼   ► city. It's like your sound devices right? You know it's a very niche thing but holy cow does it work

01:00:52 ◼   ► out well for those little niches. And finally, I love my LTE Apple Watch. I had already started

01:01:01 ◼   ► taking fitness a lot more seriously before my LTE Apple Watch, but it is much more pleasurable

01:01:07 ◼   ► to go for a run without having to carry anything on my person and still know that I can call

01:01:15 ◼   ► for help if, God forbid, something really bad happened. And so I am super thankful for

01:01:21 ◼   ► for my Apple Watch even though it is about 50% more expensive on a monthly basis than

01:01:25 ◼   ► it should be.

01:01:26 ◼   ► Eh, maybe even 100.

01:01:27 ◼   ► But that's okay.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Anyway, that's my list.

01:01:29 ◼   ► I didn't actually make a list, but I can go off the top of my head.

01:01:35 ◼   ► You didn't prepare for the show?

01:01:37 ◼   ► Yeah, well, Casey stole my first one with AirPods.

01:01:40 ◼   ► My main problem with all these things is I can never remember what happened this year,

01:01:44 ◼   ► like it's this, you know, what things you're thankful for this year.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Were AirPods this year?

01:01:47 ◼   ► I don't even know.

01:01:48 ◼   ► But since Casey listed them, I'm going to say they were.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Well, so they were since Thanksgiving.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Ah, all right.

01:01:54 ◼   ► Do you see what I'm saying?

01:01:56 ◼   ► So I received mine, I think, late, late, late December, and so I'm counting it as a Thanksgiving

01:02:01 ◼   ► to Thanksgiving thing.

01:02:02 ◼   ► Yeah, certainly for most people they were this year.

01:02:04 ◼   ► Yeah, so they have definitely just changed.

01:02:08 ◼   ► I was thinking about this the other day, just how much they've changed my life because I'm

01:02:12 ◼   ► constantly listening to podcasts inside and outside of the house, and maybe it's not as

01:02:17 ◼   ► big a deal.

01:02:18 ◼   ► I know the AirPods, everybody likes them.

01:02:21 ◼   ► Like if you ask someone who has them,

01:02:22 ◼   ► oh, they're great or whatever.

01:02:23 ◼   ► But for me, I think there's a little bit

01:02:25 ◼   ► of extra attraction to them.

01:02:27 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't know how to describe this,

01:02:29 ◼   ► but I'm the kind of person,

01:02:30 ◼   ► I'm one of those people who's like disturbed by disorder.

01:02:35 ◼   ► I think I described it to Merlin once

01:02:36 ◼   ► where like there was some pictures on the internet

01:02:38 ◼   ► that show like a bunch of pencils all lined up,

01:02:40 ◼   ► but one pencil is poking out, right?

01:02:42 ◼   ► Or like just things that are a bunch of physical objects

01:02:45 ◼   ► that look like they could be nicely arranged,

01:02:48 ◼   ► but there's just something wrong with them.

01:02:50 ◼   ► - This is Aaron's kryptonite.

01:02:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, and whatever that is, people say OCD,

01:02:55 ◼   ► but that is an incorrect use of that term.

01:02:57 ◼   ► It's not what it is at all.

01:02:58 ◼   ► That's a whole different thing.

01:03:00 ◼   ► But if you're just generally like disturbed by disorder,

01:03:02 ◼   ► and headphone cords for me

01:03:05 ◼   ► are always a big source of disorder.

01:03:07 ◼   ► They're tangled in your pockets.

01:03:08 ◼   ► You have all these techniques for coiling them.

01:03:11 ◼   ► They get caught on things.

01:03:12 ◼   ► I think as I tweeted one of the other tweets

01:03:15 ◼   ► that I think back on every time this happened to me,

01:03:18 ◼   ► Nothing makes me more instantly enraged than having my headphones yanked out of my ears.

01:03:23 ◼   ► That just makes me want to immediately kill, right?

01:03:27 ◼   ► And I – no.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Like, as you're going through a door and your headphone cord gets caught on something

01:03:32 ◼   ► and the earbud is yanked out of your ears, the worst, right?

01:03:37 ◼   ► And it's not a big deal.

01:03:38 ◼   ► Like whatever, "Oh, the cords bother you.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Oh, it's just crippling.

01:03:41 ◼   ► You know, it really is ruining your day that you have cords."

01:03:44 ◼   ► It wasn't a big deal, but it was always there, and I'm the type of person who was bothered

01:03:48 ◼   ► by this kind of disorder, who's bothered by having to deal with it and having to have

01:03:51 ◼   ► all these techniques for dealing with it and having to be aware of it and being careful

01:03:54 ◼   ► with it and threading the cords through my clothes and doing all this other stuff. Air

01:03:58 ◼   ► pods get rid of all of that. There is no more cord. And despite being annoyed by not being

01:04:05 ◼   ► able to change the volume and all the other things and having to deal with the charging

01:04:08 ◼   ► and all that other stuff, boy, they have really just ambiently increased my quality of life

01:04:13 ◼   ► by a tiny amount, but that tiny amount has spread through like the whole day. So I really

01:04:16 ◼   ► love them. I'm going to give a slot to the Apple TV, the new Apple TV, now that the beta

01:04:23 ◼   ► OS does the frame matching stuff, mostly because I hadn't realized how much I had written off

01:04:30 ◼   ► the Apple TV as sort of a video file, audio file, like whatever, like a sort of a device

01:04:36 ◼   ► in which I can indulge my love of beautiful movies and stuff, because it's like, "Yeah,

01:04:40 ◼   ► that's a thing that we use it to watch TV shows and the kids play with it." But that's

01:04:44 ◼   ► outside the realm of my sort of TV nerd experience. But suddenly it's right back in. Now it's

01:04:51 ◼   ► back in the mix because now it can actually show things at the correct frame rate and

01:04:55 ◼   ► has HDR support and it's 4K and it's back on the board. And so I'm excited by that because

01:05:01 ◼   ► I never really disliked the Apple TV and I dreaded having to go to a geekier device like,

01:05:07 ◼   ► "Oh, build your own Raspberry Pi and you can make your own thing or use the Nvidia

01:05:10 ◼   ► shield and don't worry, you know, like, I didn't want to deal with all that, so I was

01:05:15 ◼   ► just stuck with my plastic Blu-ray discs and my TV and everything, but now I'm more optimistic

01:05:20 ◼   ► about the future of the Apple TV in my life, not just as a thing that my kids use to watch

01:05:24 ◼   ► stuff sometimes.

01:05:27 ◼   ► What was my third one?

01:05:28 ◼   ► Oh yeah, my camera, which I don't think was this year either, but going through my pictures,

01:05:34 ◼   ► I've been printing books from the Apple photo book thing, and so I've been going through

01:05:39 ◼   ► a lot of old pictures and everything.

01:05:42 ◼   ► And it's so clear where the dividing line is between my old cameras and my new one,

01:05:46 ◼   ► which is the Sony a6300.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Not that it's the world's best camera, but it was a significant leap in image quality

01:05:55 ◼   ► and sensor size over my old Super Zoom cameras.

01:05:58 ◼   ► And I notice it when I'm going through the pictures, and I'm much happier with the pictures

01:06:02 ◼   ► I'm taking with my new camera than I was with my old one.

01:06:05 ◼   ► I got some good ones with my old one too, but I see the difference.

01:06:08 ◼   ► And now, of course, I wish I could go back in time and take pictures of my son who was

01:06:13 ◼   ► born 13 years ago with a camera from 2017.

01:06:16 ◼   ► That's not the way the world works.

01:06:19 ◼   ► But I really do enjoy my camera, and it's making me think that maybe…

01:06:26 ◼   ► I'll wait for Arco's review of the bigger Sony, that maybe I should start cranking up

01:06:32 ◼   ► the size of the camera I'm willing to carry just to see if I can go all the way up to

01:06:37 ◼   ► a larger sensor size and make it worthwhile. But anyway, I really enjoy my camera.

01:06:43 ◼   ► And let's see, the final thing I guess I have to give a shout out to the Mac Pro. How can I be

01:06:46 ◼   ► thankful for a thing I don't actually have? I'm thankful that this year, again I'm pretty sure,

01:06:51 ◼   ► this year is the year that Apple said, "You know what? We should make a Mac Pro." And I agree,

01:06:56 ◼   ► Apple. You should. And I'm waiting patiently. Nice.

01:07:00 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:07:02 ◼   ► - Oh, God.

01:07:03 ◼   ► I haven't had enough to drink

01:07:05 ◼   ► to handle a Mac Pro conversation,

01:07:07 ◼   ► so let's just move on,

01:07:09 ◼   ► and let's talk about how I did not bring up the iPhone X,

01:07:14 ◼   ► and in fact, none of us brought up the iPhone X

01:07:17 ◼   ► as one of our things that we're thankful for.

01:07:20 ◼   ► - To be fair, John doesn't really have one.

01:07:21 ◼   ► I've had it for like two weeks.

01:07:24 ◼   ► It is really good so far.

01:07:25 ◼   ► I really enjoy it.

01:07:27 ◼   ► It's just a little early for me to say for sure that it's like a clear positive win on

01:07:32 ◼   ► all fronts.

01:07:33 ◼   ► But I think it's heading in that direction for me.

01:07:35 ◼   ► But apparently not for you?

01:07:37 ◼   ► So I'm having some troubles.

01:07:43 ◼   ► And I feel like it is clear that Apple has done something that they have no been, I think

01:07:51 ◼   ► I said this originally when we reviewed the iPhone 10, iPhones 10, they've done something

01:07:56 ◼   ► that they have no business doing, and broad technology that really should not exist in

01:07:59 ◼   ► 2017, and ripped it from the future and put it in 2017.

01:08:04 ◼   ► So in a lot of ways, I am delighted and mesmerized by this device.

01:08:11 ◼   ► And certainly every time I look at any other device, as I think I described last episode,

01:08:16 ◼   ► any time I look at any other device that has the big chin and forehead, I look at it and

01:08:21 ◼   ► it just feels friggin' ancient.

01:08:23 ◼   ► I'm poking fun at your laptop, but really and truly,

01:08:26 ◼   ► these old devices look just ancient by comparison,

01:08:29 ◼   ► in a way that your laptop actually doesn't,

01:08:31 ◼   ► although I'll deny that in about 10 minutes.

01:08:33 ◼   ► - That's fair.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I'll allow it.

01:08:37 ◼   ► - In so many ways, this thing is wonderful.

01:08:39 ◼   ► And my goodness, when Face ID works right,

01:08:43 ◼   ► boy, does it feel amazing.

01:08:45 ◼   ► It feels like back in the day when I didn't put a passcode

01:08:48 ◼   ► in my 3GS, because why would you?

01:08:49 ◼   ► There's no need for it.

01:08:51 ◼   ► So in so many ways these phones are so great, but I am getting more and more and more infuriated

01:08:59 ◼   ► about the fact that I feel less and less and less able to use my phone at night or potentially

01:09:06 ◼   ► in the morning.

01:09:07 ◼   ► And let me tell you why.

01:09:08 ◼   ► So I think I described last episode that I have a very peculiar eye problem.

01:09:15 ◼   ► It's called keratoconus, which means that I wear hard contact lenses, and it means that

01:09:20 ◼   ► if I wear eyeglasses, which I do have a pair of eyeglasses, they get me from unable to do almost

01:09:26 ◼   ► anything to somewhat functioning human being. But I would never drive with my eyeglasses. It's very

01:09:33 ◼   ► difficult to work on a computer with eyeglasses. I need my contacts. And so at night when I'm in

01:09:38 ◼   ► bed or in the morning when I'm in bed and I don't have my contacts in, I have to keep the phone

01:09:44 ◼   ► uncomfortably close to my face. Well, it's not uncomfortable to me, but you know, it probably

01:09:48 ◼   ► looks just completely weird to anyone else. I would guess that it's two to three inches

01:09:53 ◼   ► away from my nose and my nose is about 800 feet long. So that's actually not as close

01:09:59 ◼   ► as it seems, I suppose, but it's close. And the point is that what I feel like is happening,

01:10:06 ◼   ► I don't know if this is true, but what seems to be happening is that I'm close enough that

01:10:10 ◼   ► Face ID can't see my eyes and it's assuming that I'm not looking at the phone. And so

01:10:15 ◼   ► So the symptom is that I will be actively using my phone, oftentimes having scrolled

01:10:22 ◼   ► in like Twitter or something within the last 15 or 20 seconds, and the phone just suddenly

01:10:27 ◼   ► decides to lock itself and turn the screen off.

01:10:31 ◼   ► And this is happening a lot.

01:10:33 ◼   ► It's not dimming before the screen is turned off.

01:10:36 ◼   ► I'm not in low power mode.

01:10:38 ◼   ► I am usually in do not disturb, but I'm not in low power mode.

01:10:41 ◼   ► And oftentimes I expect it would dim.

01:10:43 ◼   ► I would touch the screen to remind it,

01:10:45 ◼   ► "No, no, no, I'm here.

01:10:47 ◼   ► "Don't go away, I'm here."

01:10:49 ◼   ► But it happened this morning like two different times.

01:10:52 ◼   ► I'm sitting there, I'm reading something,

01:10:54 ◼   ► and next thing you know,

01:10:55 ◼   ► all of a sudden the phone turns itself off.

01:10:57 ◼   ► Well, I shouldn't say turns itself off.

01:10:59 ◼   ► - Are you sure you're not a ghost?

01:11:00 ◼   ► - No, I'm not sure.

01:11:01 ◼   ► Is this real life or is this just fantasy?

01:11:04 ◼   ► I don't even know.

01:11:06 ◼   ► - Sorry, did you mention

01:11:07 ◼   ► what's your auto-lock timeout set to?

01:11:09 ◼   ► - Whatever the default is, but I will stall for time

01:11:13 ◼   ► and I will tell you, but I'm pretty darn sure it's whatever the default is. And I feel like

01:11:16 ◼   ► that's like 30 seconds or something, which should be the default with the OLED screens.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Well, I'd argue it shouldn't because it sucks.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Well, touche. It is absolutely unequivocally set for 30 seconds.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Yeah. And maybe…

01:11:29 ◼   ► And that's bad, but you said it doesn't dim first?

01:11:32 ◼   ► No, that's the thing that's driving me bananas, because if it was dimming… Well,

01:11:36 ◼   ► I shouldn't say that. Occasionally it will dim, and then I'll touch the screen and

01:11:40 ◼   ► everything will be fine. But there have been times where I will be looking at the screen

01:11:45 ◼   ► and again in the defense of the phone, my device is very close to my face and all of

01:11:52 ◼   ► a sudden it'll just turn itself off. And yes, I do have attention detection on and no, I

01:11:55 ◼   ► have not tried turning it off, but I want attention detection on. I like it in every

01:11:59 ◼   ► other circumstance, but when I have my phone so close to my face, it just suddenly decides,

01:12:04 ◼   ► "Nope, you're done now," and turns itself off.

01:12:07 ◼   ► And I don't know what to do to fix it other than,

01:12:11 ◼   ► I mean, I suppose I could turn attention detection off,

01:12:14 ◼   ► but my goodness, this is frustrating.

01:12:17 ◼   ► And it's grating on me.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Like, it's that thing that when you hear somebody else

01:12:21 ◼   ► talk about, like John's headphone cables.

01:12:26 ◼   ► Like, "Okay, yeah, that's annoying, but whatever.

01:12:27 ◼   ► "Get over it, John."

01:12:28 ◼   ► No, like, I can't get over this.

01:12:30 ◼   ► It's killing me, you know?

01:12:32 ◼   ► Like, this is my headphone cables.

01:12:34 ◼   ► And I don't know what to do about it.

01:12:35 ◼   ► And it's getting to the point that it's kind of ruining

01:12:38 ◼   ► a phone that I otherwise really, really, really, really love.

01:12:42 ◼   ► - Did you put the RAM from your iMac into your phone

01:12:44 ◼   ► by any chance? (laughing)

01:12:46 ◼   ► Wasn't your iMac also doing a thing

01:12:48 ◼   ► where it would just turn itself off?

01:12:50 ◼   ► - Yes, indeed.

01:12:50 ◼   ► - Is the phone also just rebooting itself

01:12:53 ◼   ► like every few hours and you aren't telling us that

01:12:54 ◼   ► 'cause you figure that's fine?

01:12:56 ◼   ► - But no, but he's complaining about it.

01:12:56 ◼   ► This is progress, he's complaining about it.

01:12:58 ◼   ► He says, "Look, I'm using my phone and it just turns off."

01:13:00 ◼   ► Whereas before he's like, "You know, sometimes when I use

01:13:02 ◼   ► "my iMac, it turns off, but whatever."

01:13:04 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, yes.

01:13:05 ◼   ► - I mean, it seems like step one is try turning off

01:13:08 ◼   ► attention detection.

01:13:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, you're absolutely right.

01:13:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, why haven't you tried that yet?

01:13:12 ◼   ► That's my question.

01:13:13 ◼   ► So you have this problem, what's been stopping you

01:13:15 ◼   ► from saying, "Oh, I'm gonna go to that obvious setting

01:13:16 ◼   ► "and flip it?"

01:13:17 ◼   ► - Because I don't wanna turn it off.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And I think the moral of the story is I need to try.

01:13:21 ◼   ► But I don't wanna turn it off.

01:13:22 ◼   ► I don't wanna have to flip that switch every morning either.

01:13:24 ◼   ► Because I really--

01:13:25 ◼   ► - Right, but why don't you want it off permanently?

01:13:26 ◼   ► Like, what is stopping you from saying,

01:13:27 ◼   ► "Why don't you want it off?"

01:13:29 ◼   ► - Because I like the whole, like,

01:13:31 ◼   ► the phone knows when I'm looking at it

01:13:33 ◼   ► and will show me the details of my messages.

01:13:35 ◼   ► Now, the next question you're gonna ask me is,

01:13:37 ◼   ► did I ever bother with that before?

01:13:38 ◼   ► No, I did not.

01:13:39 ◼   ► My text messages could be seen by anyone

01:13:41 ◼   ► who had access to my phone.

01:13:43 ◼   ► - I don't think that's mutually exclusive.

01:13:45 ◼   ► I think it's, as soon as the phone is unlocked,

01:13:48 ◼   ► it will show you the content of your text messages.

01:13:50 ◼   ► And it's unlocked whether attention detection

01:13:52 ◼   ► is enabled or not, it just uses Face ID for that.

01:13:54 ◼   ► - Interesting point.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Okay, that makes me feel a little better.

01:13:57 ◼   ► That's a, okay, that's an interesting point.

01:13:58 ◼   ► I didn't think of it that way.

01:13:59 ◼   ► I see what you're saying though.

01:14:00 ◼   ► - So attempt number one, turn off attention detection,

01:14:02 ◼   ► And then if that doesn't do it enough for you,

01:14:05 ◼   ► raise that auto-lock timeout above 30 seconds,

01:14:08 ◼   ► and that should significantly reduce the chances

01:14:10 ◼   ► of this problem affecting you.

01:14:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, but the interesting life lesson here is,

01:14:17 ◼   ► I don't view this as my fault.

01:14:20 ◼   ► And the chat room is already saying it's my fault.

01:14:22 ◼   ► I'm sure if you're listening, you're saying it's my fault.

01:14:24 ◼   ► But I don't view this as my fault.

01:14:26 ◼   ► I'm just trying to use my phone

01:14:26 ◼   ► the way I wanna use my phone.

01:14:28 ◼   ► And although by any normal metric,

01:14:31 ◼   ► I am in no way differently abled, or whatever the correct phrasing is that I'm looking for.

01:14:36 ◼   ► But this is the first time, perhaps in my entire life, that an ailment of mine has caused

01:14:44 ◼   ► me to have a problem with the way something's designed.

01:14:49 ◼   ► Because I don't think Apple's designers, I don't think, had ever really had to worry

01:14:55 ◼   ► about, "Well, what happens if somebody has really, really poor eyesight and is basically

01:14:58 ◼   ► touching their nose to this phone?

01:15:00 ◼   ► then what do we do? And so I feel neglected. And that's a weird feeling for me, because as an

01:15:07 ◼   ► able-bodied person by any other metric, this is the first time I've really have to deal with this.

01:15:14 ◼   ► And it's been a really good and useful lesson that it's easy to feel marginalized. And that's

01:15:21 ◼   ► probably not the word I'm looking for, but I can't think of a better one. It's easy to feel

01:15:24 ◼   ► marginalized just by being overlooked the littlest, teeniest bit. And that's been kind

01:15:30 ◼   ► of interesting too.

01:15:31 ◼   ► It's a glimpse of your future. As I think we've said many times when we've talked about

01:15:35 ◼   ► accessibility features, your choices are you will eventually use accessibility features

01:15:41 ◼   ► or you will be dead. And in general, I think people will choose the accessibility features.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Like, it's not a question of, "Oh, maybe you'll need accessibility features." No, you will.

01:15:50 ◼   ► The only way you won't need accessibility features is if you die or if they cure aging,

01:15:54 ◼   ► I suppose, but don't hold your breath for that.

01:15:56 ◼   ► Sorry, CGP Grey.

01:15:58 ◼   ► Yeah, we're all going to need these features in everything that we do.

01:16:03 ◼   ► If we just keep living and our bodies keep deteriorating, you may be perfectly healthy

01:16:06 ◼   ► now and everything works, but eventually it won't.

01:16:09 ◼   ► And then you are suddenly a customer for all the features that you are not using and all

01:16:14 ◼   ► your electronic devices and all of the appliances in your home and all of the places you go

01:16:19 ◼   ► and your car and everything else.

01:16:21 ◼   ► And so it's not speculative and it's not like there's some chance you might need

01:16:26 ◼   ► accessibility features.

01:16:27 ◼   ► You will need them.

01:16:28 ◼   ► And I also – obviously I don't have iPhone 10, but I also do exactly what Casey does.

01:16:33 ◼   ► I don't have his exact vision problem, but I have terrible vision.

01:16:37 ◼   ► And when I use my phone without my glasses in my bed, it might as well be touching my

01:16:41 ◼   ► nose.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Like that's when I get really intimate with the retina screen and be like, "Oh, look,

01:16:44 ◼   ► I can see the subpixels."

01:16:46 ◼   ► because my close-up vision is still pretty good, although maybe not true for Casey, but

01:16:51 ◼   ► bad news for other young people who think that, "Yeah, you know, I need glasses to see

01:16:55 ◼   ► far away, but I can see close-up real great." Well, guess what? When you get old, that goes

01:16:59 ◼   ► too. So you have that to look forward to. But yeah, and I think I would have the exact

01:17:03 ◼   ► same problem as you, and I think I would be in the same situation where I'd have to be

01:17:07 ◼   ► considering turning off the attention thing just because I don't want to give up like

01:17:12 ◼   ► and, you know, it's not a long time, but I do use my phone in my bed either before going

01:17:17 ◼   ► to bed or just after waking up, and I don't want to have to toggle setting to do that,

01:17:22 ◼   ► and I don't want the screen to turn off while I'm doing it.

01:17:24 ◼   ► So yeah, that's a thing.

01:17:26 ◼   ► So looking at the settings right now, and in Face ID and Attention, there are two settings.

01:17:33 ◼   ► Require Attention for Face ID, and then separately, Attention Aware Features, and the footer under

01:17:40 ◼   ► that says, "TrueDepth Camera will check for attention before dimming the display or lowering

01:17:45 ◼   ► the volume of alerts."

01:17:46 ◼   ► I am bummed to give away the lowering the volume of alerts thing, because although it

01:17:52 ◼   ► doesn't happen but once or twice a day, that is a super nice feature that when I look at

01:17:56 ◼   ► the phone, it will duck the audio, or maybe that's not the right term for it, but it'll

01:17:59 ◼   ► lower the volume of the alarm or the timer or what have you.

01:18:03 ◼   ► And the thing that I guess really grinds my gears about this the most is that one of the

01:18:08 ◼   ► coolest like wow things for me anyway about the iPhone 10 is that it is

01:18:15 ◼   ► attention-aware and in that it is capable of making decisions based on

01:18:19 ◼   ► whether or not you're looking at it like that's so cool I I'm seriously it's

01:18:22 ◼   ► super cool and now I feel like I'm giving up on a little bit of that and

01:18:26 ◼   ► that bumps me out because I like my new toy otherwise and it's a really nice new

01:18:30 ◼   ► toy and I don't want and I want all parts of my new toy to work not just

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01:20:04 ◼   ► Betterment, rethink what your money can do.

01:20:07 ◼   ► - Do we have time for your best laptop ever discussion?

01:20:12 ◼   ► - We sure do.

01:20:13 ◼   ► The best, done.

01:20:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's exactly how this is gonna go.

01:20:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:20:17 ◼   ► Alright, so tell us,

01:20:20 ◼   ► this may or, I can't tell if you and I

01:20:21 ◼   ► are gonna hate each other by the end of this

01:20:23 ◼   ► or if we're just gonna shrug and say,

01:20:24 ◼   ► "Yeah, okay, that makes sense."

01:20:25 ◼   ► But tell us, make your pitch,

01:20:27 ◼   ► tell us about the supposed best laptop

01:20:30 ◼   ► that's ever been made.

01:20:32 ◼   ► - I actually already did tell you.

01:20:33 ◼   ► a few weeks ago on this show.

01:20:35 ◼   ► I basically, as listeners of this show know,

01:20:38 ◼   ► I have lots of complaints about the current generation

01:20:41 ◼   ► of MacBook Pros.

01:20:42 ◼   ► And I switched back recently to a 2015 model

01:20:46 ◼   ► that I got off eBay for a pretty good price.

01:20:49 ◼   ► And I just love it, I absolutely love it.

01:20:53 ◼   ► The wonderful design of it just resonates well with me.

01:20:57 ◼   ► It fits my needs incredibly well.

01:21:00 ◼   ► Even though it might not fit more modern needs

01:21:01 ◼   ► in certain ways if it's my fairly low laptop needs,

01:21:05 ◼   ► incredibly well.

01:21:07 ◼   ► It's incredibly convenient to have all the nice old ports

01:21:10 ◼   ► on it that I don't need dongles for.

01:21:11 ◼   ► I can have only USB-A cables in my travel bag

01:21:15 ◼   ► and be able to plug my phone into either chargers

01:21:18 ◼   ► or my laptop with the same cable

01:21:20 ◼   ► and not have to worry about two different kinds.

01:21:22 ◼   ► The keyboard is wonderful, it just works, it's reliable,

01:21:25 ◼   ► it's the kind that I like.

01:21:27 ◼   ► The trackpad is wonderful, it's just a great,

01:21:29 ◼   ► The battery life is wonderful.

01:21:31 ◼   ► And the biggest thing I was afraid about

01:21:34 ◼   ► when I went back to it was that it would feel old

01:21:37 ◼   ► or that I would miss some of the advances in the new stuff.

01:21:40 ◼   ► And in fact, that didn't happen at all.

01:21:41 ◼   ► It doesn't feel old to me at all.

01:21:43 ◼   ► It doesn't look old to me at all.

01:21:44 ◼   ► And I don't miss the advances in the new stuff at all.

01:21:47 ◼   ► So it basically was all good switching back to it.

01:21:51 ◼   ► And I had been thinking for a while

01:21:53 ◼   ► about whether I wanted to write a big blog post

01:21:56 ◼   ► about just how much worse I felt the new generation

01:22:00 ◼   ► of MacBook Pros is.

01:22:02 ◼   ► And I decided to take a more positive approach

01:22:06 ◼   ► and not even, not do that at all, I do that enough here,

01:22:09 ◼   ► but to instead really celebrate quite how good

01:22:14 ◼   ► this laptop is.

01:22:15 ◼   ► And in the entire post, while some of the things

01:22:17 ◼   ► I point out are kind of subtly in comparisons

01:22:23 ◼   ► to the current model.

01:22:26 ◼   ► I never actually call out the current model.

01:22:27 ◼   ► I never actually name it.

01:22:29 ◼   ► I'm just talking about the context

01:22:32 ◼   ► of how great this laptop is,

01:22:33 ◼   ► and that's really how I meant it.

01:22:34 ◼   ► You know, certainly it's going to serve the function also

01:22:38 ◼   ► of serving as a critique of the new ones.

01:22:41 ◼   ► But I didn't want this to be a negative article.

01:22:43 ◼   ► I wanted this to be a positive article

01:22:45 ◼   ► about just how much I love that generation of laptops.

01:22:49 ◼   ► And the great thing is you can still buy them.

01:22:51 ◼   ► If you agree with me, Apple still sells them brand new

01:22:55 ◼   ► if you scroll down to the bottom

01:22:57 ◼   ► of the 15 inch MacBook Pro buy page.

01:22:59 ◼   ► They still have this model brand new.

01:23:01 ◼   ► You can get them plenty fully on eBay and other resellers

01:23:04 ◼   ► if you want to pay used instead.

01:23:06 ◼   ► I just love this laptop a lot.

01:23:09 ◼   ► And so I wrote this big blog post.

01:23:10 ◼   ► I took some pretty pictures of it

01:23:12 ◼   ► and I wrote this big blog post

01:23:14 ◼   ► about just some of the things about it that I love so much,

01:23:16 ◼   ► some of the good design decisions

01:23:18 ◼   ► and some of the things that just resonate with me

01:23:19 ◼   ► and just how nice it is.

01:23:21 ◼   ► and I named it best laptop ever or something like that, and

01:23:26 ◼   ► I thought I had a hard time coming up with a title for this

01:23:30 ◼   ► and when I decided to go with that, I thought boy am I gonna

01:23:35 ◼   ► get hell for this. I like you put something on the internet

01:23:38 ◼   ► that says best ever and you're gonna hear from a lot of people

01:23:43 ◼   ► who disagree with that, especially especially when the

01:23:49 ◼   ► you're saying is the best ever is not the current thing and the people who

01:23:56 ◼   ► bought the current thing you're kind of implicitly telling them you made a

01:24:00 ◼   ► mistake you made a bad buying decision although I'm telling them from the

01:24:03 ◼   ► perspective that I too made that mistake and I too bought the new one twice three

01:24:08 ◼   ► times if you count the escape and so I expected this to be a highly

01:24:16 ◼   ► controversial article. And I also thought, "I must be the only person who cares as much

01:24:23 ◼   ► about this generation of MacBook Pros." Because no one's really talking about them anymore,

01:24:28 ◼   ► and everyone's just kind of swallowing the new ones. And so I really didn't--I thought

01:24:34 ◼   ► that this wouldn't go that far and wide, and that if it did, the response would be really,

01:24:41 ◼   ► mixed and I'd get a lot of complaints and a lot of flaming and a lot of

01:24:46 ◼   ► disagreement about what was the best ever. That was totally not what happened.

01:24:51 ◼   ► It immediately went very far and wide. Even like you know top of hacker news

01:24:57 ◼   ► immediately it got you know all over the place. Even MacRumors wrote about it

01:25:01 ◼   ► for some reason even though it was not news at all whatever and it went far and

01:25:07 ◼   ► wide very very quickly. And the shocking thing to me is that the response, even on hacker

01:25:15 ◼   ► news, which is horrible, the response pretty much everywhere was nearly universally positive

01:25:24 ◼   ► and with very very strong agreement. Not 100% agreement, but like I can write "the sky is

01:25:31 ◼   ► blue" and I will get more disagreement than what I got from saying this was the best laptop

01:25:35 ◼   ► ever, and that's really saying something.

01:25:39 ◼   ► Like, if Apple has any reason to be concerned,

01:25:42 ◼   ► it's not that I wrote this article,

01:25:43 ◼   ► they don't care about that,

01:25:45 ◼   ► it's how many people agreed with it.

01:25:48 ◼   ► I have gotten, I'm still, every day,

01:25:50 ◼   ► still getting responses from this,

01:25:52 ◼   ► but I got hundreds of responses,

01:25:55 ◼   ► hundreds of comments on other sites,

01:25:58 ◼   ► tons of inbound links, and almost all of them agreed.

01:26:03 ◼   ► And that to me is shocking.

01:26:05 ◼   ► Even the people who, and I thought for,

01:26:08 ◼   ► I thought maybe the MacBook Air people

01:26:11 ◼   ► would have a problem with it,

01:26:12 ◼   ► or maybe the 13-inch MacBook Pro people

01:26:14 ◼   ► would have a problem with it,

01:26:16 ◼   ► and they largely didn't.

01:26:18 ◼   ► Even the people who like those,

01:26:20 ◼   ► both of them said, "But you're right."

01:26:22 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:26:24 ◼   ► So I am just blown away by how much people agree with this.

01:26:28 ◼   ► And I heard from lots of people,

01:26:32 ◼   ► who have the old laptops, who have the 2012 through 2015

01:26:36 ◼   ► Retina and MacBook Pro, who I've heard it from,

01:26:39 ◼   ► tons of them who said, "I'm holding on to mine,

01:26:42 ◼   ► "I love it, I see no reason to upgrade,

01:26:44 ◼   ► "I hope it never dies."

01:26:45 ◼   ► Tons of them who were like, "I don't know what I'm gonna get

01:26:47 ◼   ► "when it does die," who I guess didn't know

01:26:48 ◼   ► that they still make these. (laughs)

01:26:50 ◼   ► Tons of people who have the new ones,

01:26:54 ◼   ► and who regret it, and who wish they would've kept

01:26:57 ◼   ► the old one, or have been thinking about switching back

01:26:58 ◼   ► to the old one.

01:26:59 ◼   ► A handful of people who did what I did,

01:27:01 ◼   ► and who did switch back to the old one and are very happy having done that. Again, I

01:27:05 ◼   ► can't underestimate or I can't understate how many people supported this point of view

01:27:10 ◼   ► in their responses. Also, I think worrisome for Apple is pretty much no one cares about

01:27:17 ◼   ► the touch bar in any of these responses. The big headlining feature of this laptop, touch

01:27:23 ◼   ► bar, not a lot of people care. The few people who disagreed with it, most of them decided

01:27:30 ◼   ► that the best laptop ever was actually a ThinkPad.

01:27:32 ◼   ► I disagree.

01:27:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:27:34 ◼   ► - And that wasn't me, surprisingly.

01:27:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, like so, most of the disagreement was

01:27:40 ◼   ► once it spread beyond the Apple crowd,

01:27:41 ◼   ► the PC people were like, "Duh, it's not,

01:27:44 ◼   ► "the best laptop ever is not an Apple."

01:27:47 ◼   ► But they can have that, I guess.

01:27:49 ◼   ► - No, no, no, that is, as a diehard ThinkPad fan,

01:27:53 ◼   ► you are way closer to right than they are.

01:27:56 ◼   ► - Right, so anyway.

01:27:59 ◼   ► So if you rule out the Windows people,

01:28:02 ◼   ► the biggest counter-argument was more theoretical.

01:28:06 ◼   ► It was more like, well, someone needs to push

01:28:10 ◼   ► the industry forward, and that's why Apple

01:28:13 ◼   ► needed to go all USB-C.

01:28:14 ◼   ► What about the original iMac going all USB, blah, blah, blah.

01:28:17 ◼   ► And most of those arguments were honestly pretty bad.

01:28:20 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:28:21 ◼   ► I disagree with many of those arguments.

01:28:23 ◼   ► I don't think we have time to talk about that.

01:28:25 ◼   ► I don't really care, but if we do, I will.

01:28:26 ◼   ► But for the most part, the response was just so positive,

01:28:31 ◼   ► and almost none of the people who disagreed

01:28:34 ◼   ► even mentioned the Touch Bar.

01:28:35 ◼   ► Well, I guess it wasn't a surprise, honestly,

01:28:37 ◼   ► but it was damning, I would say,

01:28:40 ◼   ► how few people cared about the Touch Bar.

01:28:41 ◼   ► People cared about Touch ID sometimes.

01:28:43 ◼   ► Even that, not as often as I would have expected.

01:28:46 ◼   ► But for the most part, the Touch Bar

01:28:49 ◼   ► didn't get much of a mention.

01:28:51 ◼   ► The new keyboard does have some fans,

01:28:53 ◼   ► people who said, "You know, I prefer it, and that's fine.

01:28:55 ◼   ► I get that if you prefer it, that's fine.

01:28:57 ◼   ► I think we can all still agree that it's unreliable

01:29:00 ◼   ► for a lot of people and that's a big problem,

01:29:01 ◼   ► but for the people who like it, you can like it, that's fine

01:29:05 ◼   ► but I think the whole package of the old one,

01:29:07 ◼   ► I just love so much and it just is a workhorse.

01:29:11 ◼   ► It just works and works and works for years

01:29:13 ◼   ► and some people did point out

01:29:16 ◼   ► that that generation has had its issues.

01:29:18 ◼   ► The first one I got in 2012 had image retention.

01:29:20 ◼   ► That was a common thing.

01:29:21 ◼   ► That's why I made my little grid page.

01:29:23 ◼   ► It was for the 2012 Red Am I Pro

01:29:24 ◼   ► and over the years they seem to have fixed that.

01:29:27 ◼   ► So that had some issues with some of those early screens,

01:29:29 ◼   ► if they were made by LG instead of Samsung.

01:29:32 ◼   ► That it had this continued screen delamination problem

01:29:37 ◼   ► for some people, that hasn't ever affected me, but oh well.

01:29:41 ◼   ► And the ones with discrete GPUs,

01:29:44 ◼   ► as every MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU has had

01:29:47 ◼   ► in the last probably decade or so,

01:29:50 ◼   ► those GPUs tend to die at a higher rate than average.

01:29:53 ◼   ► And so that causes problems for people.

01:29:55 ◼   ► But not only have they all done that,

01:29:57 ◼   ► but we don't even know yet if the current generation

01:30:00 ◼   ► will also do that.

01:30:01 ◼   ► I think it probably will.

01:30:03 ◼   ► So the overall, the response was great,

01:30:06 ◼   ► and pretty much everybody agrees with me,

01:30:08 ◼   ► I guess, except Casey.

01:30:10 ◼   ► - So I think your point is fair,

01:30:13 ◼   ► and I think part of the reason why you got

01:30:18 ◼   ► such good coverage of this is because you did take

01:30:21 ◼   ► the high road and said, "Hey, rather than telling you

01:30:23 ◼   ► why everything else is garbage. Let me tell you why this is good. And if that implicitly means that

01:30:27 ◼   ► other things are garbage, then so be it. The problem I have with it is that it is far more

01:30:35 ◼   ► absolute, or it reads as far more absolute than I think is really true. You know, this is the best

01:30:44 ◼   ► laptop ever made, period. It's not the best laptop for Marco. It's the best laptop ever made. And

01:30:49 ◼   ► And this is it. Look at your opening paragraph. "Apple's made many great laptops. The 15-inch

01:30:54 ◼   ► Retina MacBook Pro 2012-2015 is the epitome of usefulness, elegance, practicality, and

01:30:58 ◼   ► power for an overall package that still hasn't been and may never be surpassed." Like, it's

01:31:04 ◼   ► not an unreasonable thesis, but I feel like to some degree this entire article was "That's

01:31:09 ◼   ► fine for Marco." And that's okay. I mean, it's marco.org. It's not people that are like

01:31:15 ◼   ► marco.org. It's marco.org. So I mean, to some degree, I really need to give you a buy on this.

01:31:19 ◼   ► But that's, I think, where my primary complaint lies, is that there are other uses for Mac laptops,

01:31:26 ◼   ► besides what you need to do. As an example, a lot of people, and I think you were one of them,

01:31:33 ◼   ► had many, many beehives full of bees in their bonnets about the removal of the SD card slot.

01:31:43 ◼   ► And you were particularly perturbed about the removal of the SD card slot.

01:31:49 ◼   ► Obviously I have no idea how many people do or do not use the SD card slot, but I can

01:31:54 ◼   ► tell you that I had never ever ever used an SD card reader ever until 2014 when I bought

01:32:02 ◼   ► our big camera.

01:32:03 ◼   ► And I would argue that most people that I know anyway don't have big fancy cameras that

01:32:09 ◼   ► take SD cards.

01:32:11 ◼   ► So to me, if you were to lament the loss of the SD card slot, that's fine for Marco,

01:32:20 ◼   ► or really, I guess the loss is not fine for Marco, but you know what I mean.

01:32:24 ◼   ► For you, that's a big friggin' problem.

01:32:25 ◼   ► And I'm not trying to patronize you.

01:32:27 ◼   ► For you, that is a big friggin' problem.

01:32:30 ◼   ► That's a big deal.

01:32:32 ◼   ► But for me, it may not be, as it turns out it actually is.

01:32:34 ◼   ► But for the sake of discussion, it may not be.

01:32:37 ◼   ► Do you see what I'm driving at?

01:32:38 ◼   ► And so I think the thing is that I have one of these computers that I use every single

01:32:47 ◼   ► day, because that's my work computer.

01:32:49 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:32:50 ◼   ► It's a damn fine computer.

01:32:52 ◼   ► It really, really is.

01:32:53 ◼   ► But there's a lot that I wish was different about it.

01:32:56 ◼   ► As a perfect example, I wish it had the new keyboard, until it inevitably breaks.

01:33:01 ◼   ► But until that moment, I wish it had the new keyboard, because when I type on this thing,

01:33:06 ◼   ► When I go from my beloved Magic Keyboard to this, it feels like I've gone from a steel

01:33:12 ◼   ► roller coaster to a wooden roller coaster.

01:33:14 ◼   ► Everything is creaky and loose and just mushy and ugh, just gross.

01:33:21 ◼   ► And it's not fair of me to just hand-wave away the reliability problems of the new keyboards,

01:33:29 ◼   ► and I recognize that that's not fair.

01:33:32 ◼   ► But for me, I love the feel of the new keyboards.

01:33:34 ◼   ► If they could only make a reliable version of it, it would be tremendous.

01:33:37 ◼   ► - Well, but they haven't.

01:33:39 ◼   ► - And they haven't.

01:33:40 ◼   ► - So that's not a great counterargument.

01:33:41 ◼   ► Like until they do it, until they can make that keyboard without pretty horrible side

01:33:47 ◼   ► effects, then you can't say, "Well, I wish they had that keyboard everywhere," because

01:33:51 ◼   ► trust me, you don't.

01:33:53 ◼   ► - You're right.

01:33:54 ◼   ► And now, in my defense, my beloved MacBook Adorable has yet to have any keyboard problems

01:34:01 ◼   ► that compressed air couldn't fix.

01:34:03 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:34:05 ◼   ► But I haven't had, and to be fair to you,

01:34:09 ◼   ► I didn't have compressed air in the house.

01:34:11 ◼   ► I had to buy myself compressed air

01:34:13 ◼   ► to fix my six month old laptop.

01:34:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, like what year is this?

01:34:16 ◼   ► - That is pretty frickin' preposterous.

01:34:18 ◼   ► - And like, and how often did you have to use

01:34:20 ◼   ► compressed air to fix your keyboard

01:34:21 ◼   ► on the one that you don't like?

01:34:23 ◼   ► - Never. - Right.

01:34:25 ◼   ► - But it feels like mush though.

01:34:27 ◼   ► I mean, I see you're right, I really do.

01:34:28 ◼   ► I really do.

01:34:29 ◼   ► - And I do, I also, I wanna push back a little bit

01:34:32 ◼   ► on what you said about the SD card slot also,

01:34:34 ◼   ► because it seems like one of the counter arguments to this,

01:34:38 ◼   ► or one of the general arguments in support

01:34:39 ◼   ► of the new direction Apple has taken,

01:34:42 ◼   ► is the whole thing about moving forward and everything,

01:34:45 ◼   ► people always say, "Well, if Apple didn't move forward,

01:34:46 ◼   ► "we'd still have VGA ports."

01:34:48 ◼   ► And yeah, guess what, the world does still have VGA ports.

01:34:50 ◼   ► - I believe I made that exact argument to you.

01:34:52 ◼   ► - Right, you're not the only one.

01:34:53 ◼   ► But there seems to be a few brain virus themes

01:35:01 ◼   ► among Apple defenders, where they repeat back

01:35:05 ◼   ► some kind of dogma that doesn't actually apply very well,

01:35:08 ◼   ► or is not a very good argument.

01:35:10 ◼   ► And the iMac going all USB is a great one,

01:35:13 ◼   ► which doesn't apply at all, because that was

01:35:15 ◼   ► one desktop going all USB, a consumer level one no less,

01:35:20 ◼   ► in a lineup that had plenty of other options

01:35:22 ◼   ► that didn't go all USB.

01:35:24 ◼   ► And also, it went all USB and it was a big problem.

01:35:26 ◼   ► It was really annoying.

01:35:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:35:29 ◼   ► and then future versions added back a lot of ports

01:35:31 ◼   ► that weren't USB.

01:35:32 ◼   ► So that's one bad example.

01:35:36 ◼   ► There were other ones, things like VGA ports.

01:35:41 ◼   ► VGA ports, people still complain,

01:35:44 ◼   ► well yeah, you know what, VGA ports are still around

01:35:46 ◼   ► because they're still on a lot of projectors and stuff

01:35:47 ◼   ► and that's reality, that's fine.

01:35:50 ◼   ► There's all sorts of bad examples,

01:35:51 ◼   ► but I think one of the thought viruses

01:35:54 ◼   ► that is common among Apple defenders is that

01:35:59 ◼   ► If something is not used very often,

01:36:01 ◼   ► or by a large percentage of people, it should be removed.

01:36:04 ◼   ► That the removal in and of itself is progress.

01:36:08 ◼   ► And that's not always the case.

01:36:12 ◼   ► Like every Apple product, every desktop, every laptop,

01:36:18 ◼   ► every phone I have ever owned,

01:36:20 ◼   ► has features on it that I have never used.

01:36:23 ◼   ► For instance, on my MacBook Pro, on all MacBook Pros,

01:36:28 ◼   ► including the current ones.

01:36:30 ◼   ► I never use the front-facing camera for anything, ever.

01:36:34 ◼   ► I don't take selfies, and if I'm going to use FaceTime,

01:36:37 ◼   ► I use it on my phone or an iPad.

01:36:40 ◼   ► I never use the front-facing camera on a Mac for anything.

01:36:45 ◼   ► But it has them.

01:36:47 ◼   ► Should they remove the front-facing camera

01:36:48 ◼   ► because I don't use it?

01:36:50 ◼   ► No, because its presence there doesn't affect me in any way.

01:36:54 ◼   ► It's an inexpensive part, very inexpensive,

01:36:57 ◼   ► Apple never updates them and they're always terrible.

01:36:59 ◼   ► But it's an inexpensive part.

01:37:02 ◼   ► It doesn't add a meaningful amount of size or weight

01:37:05 ◼   ► or technical complexity in a way that gets in my way at all.

01:37:08 ◼   ► And for the few people who do use them, it's there.

01:37:12 ◼   ► And if I ever really need it, it's there for me too.

01:37:16 ◼   ► So even if I think I'll never use it, it's there.

01:37:18 ◼   ► Similarly, I never use video output on my laptops

01:37:23 ◼   ► because that's just not how I use laptops.

01:37:24 ◼   ► I don't have to connect them to projectors really ever,

01:37:27 ◼   ► and I don't use it at home like that.

01:37:29 ◼   ► And so I never used the HDMI port on my laptops

01:37:33 ◼   ► when they still had those,

01:37:34 ◼   ► and with the new ones I never use video output

01:37:36 ◼   ► on them either.

01:37:37 ◼   ► Should they remove it because not a lot of people use it?

01:37:40 ◼   ► No, because it doesn't get in the way at all.

01:37:42 ◼   ► It doesn't matter at all that I never use it.

01:37:44 ◼   ► It's not a problem in my life at all.

01:37:47 ◼   ► If I ever need it, it's there,

01:37:49 ◼   ► and it's there without me having to buy anything.

01:37:51 ◼   ► So like, if I happen to be like, in a hotel room

01:37:54 ◼   ► or something, and all of a sudden, oh, crap,

01:37:56 ◼   ► I have a quick need to show something from my laptop

01:37:59 ◼   ► on this TV that has an HDMI port.

01:38:01 ◼   ► I can just take a regular HDMI cable

01:38:03 ◼   ► that's probably already behind the TV,

01:38:05 ◼   ► unplug it from whatever garbage DVD player

01:38:06 ◼   ► that's already there, and plug it into my laptop,

01:38:08 ◼   ► and I didn't need to go to an Apple store and buy a dongle.

01:38:11 ◼   ► I can use what I already have,

01:38:14 ◼   ► and that will probably suffice.

01:38:16 ◼   ► That is called versatility.

01:38:18 ◼   ► So when a computer has things on it

01:38:21 ◼   ► that you might not think you need,

01:38:24 ◼   ► there is still value to have them be available

01:38:27 ◼   ► just in case you do need them sometime.

01:38:30 ◼   ► And as long as they are not really getting in the way,

01:38:32 ◼   ► it was not necessary when designing the 2012 MacBook Pro

01:38:38 ◼   ► to get rid of all these ports for like

01:38:41 ◼   ► fitness or lightness reasons or anything else.

01:38:44 ◼   ► They're all pretty thin, they're all pretty light,

01:38:45 ◼   ► they don't add a lot of cost or complexity or anything else.

01:38:47 ◼   ► that they left them in because people use them sometimes.

01:38:51 ◼   ► On the new ones, I don't know the details

01:38:54 ◼   ► of exactly what would have fit in the slightly thinner case.

01:38:58 ◼   ► By the way, using the old one,

01:39:00 ◼   ► don't notice the thickness difference at all,

01:39:02 ◼   ► don't notice the weight difference at all, but that's fine.

01:39:04 ◼   ► You might, that's good for you.

01:39:06 ◼   ► In the new ones, would it have killed them?

01:39:09 ◼   ► Could they have included an SD card slot

01:39:11 ◼   ► for people who use that and need that?

01:39:14 ◼   ► I think they probably could.

01:39:16 ◼   ► Could they have included any other ports?

01:39:18 ◼   ► I think probably yes.

01:39:20 ◼   ► They didn't as a feature, because the thinking that

01:39:24 ◼   ► removing things is itself a feature has infected Apple

01:39:27 ◼   ► to the highest levels, in addition to the Apple defenders.

01:39:30 ◼   ► So now, Apple views it as progress or courage,

01:39:34 ◼   ► whatever word they wanna use,

01:39:35 ◼   ► and all the defenders support this,

01:39:38 ◼   ► that removing things is itself a commendable thing

01:39:42 ◼   ► and it's quote, "moving forward,"

01:39:44 ◼   ► which is a meaningless phrase,

01:39:45 ◼   ► moving forward only means doing what we did this year.

01:39:47 ◼   ► Like it's not, there is no such thing,

01:39:49 ◼   ► like moving forward suggests there's like a certain,

01:39:51 ◼   ► like there's one future that you're moving towards

01:39:53 ◼   ► inevitably and that's not true at all,

01:39:55 ◼   ► like you create that future.

01:39:56 ◼   ► Anyway, that's a BS phrase that bothers me.

01:39:58 ◼   ► But the idea that removing things is itself

01:40:03 ◼   ► something that we should do as soon as we can,

01:40:04 ◼   ► we should drop things as soon as we can,

01:40:07 ◼   ► that's not true for everything.

01:40:09 ◼   ► And I think the more high-end and pro you get

01:40:12 ◼   ► computing gear, the less true that becomes.

01:40:15 ◼   ► Because what pros need is not only for their gear,

01:40:19 ◼   ► including their keyboards, to work incredibly reliably,

01:40:21 ◼   ► as reliably as possible, but also pros need that versatility.

01:40:25 ◼   ► Pros need the idea that if you're gonna be traveling

01:40:28 ◼   ► somewhere with your gear or on a set,

01:40:31 ◼   ► or in some kind of production environment,

01:40:33 ◼   ► and something comes up that you didn't foresee,

01:40:36 ◼   ► and because you didn't foresee it,

01:40:38 ◼   ► you probably don't have the right dongle.

01:40:41 ◼   ► If it's true pro gear, it will try to accommodate

01:40:44 ◼   ► as many of those situations as possible.

01:40:46 ◼   ► That's what pros actually need.

01:40:48 ◼   ► And Apple has been great at doing that in the past.

01:40:52 ◼   ► And now they're really taking, I think,

01:40:55 ◼   ► a pretty quick nosedive in that area.

01:40:58 ◼   ► And I really, really love so much of the old one

01:41:02 ◼   ► because it has so much of this versatility.

01:41:05 ◼   ► And the new one took such a stark change,

01:41:09 ◼   ► such a rapid turn.

01:41:11 ◼   ► in the other direction. That's why it bugs me so much.

01:41:14 ◼   ► See, and I understand everything you just said. And I can't, with an honest heart, sit

01:41:21 ◼   ► here and say you're wrong. But I can say I look at it differently. You said just a moment

01:41:26 ◼   ► ago, if it's true pro-gear, it will try to accommodate as many of these situations, these

01:41:31 ◼   ► basically "oh crap" situations, as possible. There is a very compelling argument that you

01:41:37 ◼   ► just made, that the best way to do that is to have as many ports as possible on that

01:41:42 ◼   ► device and as many different kinds of ports as possible on that device. But another approach

01:41:48 ◼   ► is, what if you had one port that can do anything? In which case, yes, you're right, Marco,

01:41:55 ◼   ► that I would have to carry an HDMI dongle with me. Full stop, there's nothing I can

01:41:59 ◼   ► do to argue that fact.

01:42:00 ◼   ► And buy one for $80.

01:42:01 ◼   ► And, well, I didn't pay $80 for mine, but you're still more right than you are wrong.

01:42:05 ◼   ► I would have to buy one. But the fact of the matter is, for any situation that I, Casey,

01:42:12 ◼   ► could possibly face, any situation that I would want to be prepared for, I have three

01:42:21 ◼   ► different USB-C things that I would need to carry with me, none of which are particularly

01:42:25 ◼   ► large. One of them is triple old USB and Ethernet. One of them is HDMI and pass-through USB-C,

01:42:32 ◼   ► by the way, has a old USB on it. And what was the other one? Shoot. Oh, the USB-C to

01:42:38 ◼   ► Lightning adapter. Which, truth be told, I could just use one of the dongles and a traditional

01:42:44 ◼   ► cable. So, I think the problem is, is that your perception of versatility is requiring

01:42:54 ◼   ► nothing but the device. And my, I shouldn't say that I don't agree with that. I'm implying

01:43:00 ◼   ► I don't agree with you. I do agree with you. But another perception of versatility is we

01:43:07 ◼   ► have one port that can do friggin' anything. It can do anything. So if you need an SD card

01:43:14 ◼   ► reader, Marco, and actually I do, and come to think of it, maybe that would be number

01:43:18 ◼   ► four, dongle number four, but nevertheless...

01:43:20 ◼   ► Yeah, they multiply. It's like cats. You think you have two, and then, you know, eventually

01:43:23 ◼   ► you get six.

01:43:24 ◼   ► It may be more like rabbits than cats, but we're saying the same thing. But you know

01:43:28 ◼   ► know what I mean? Like, finding an SD card reader, then fine. I paid $10 or $12 or whatever

01:43:33 ◼   ► it was on Monoprice to get one. But for Erin, who doesn't need one, she doesn't have to

01:43:39 ◼   ► have one. Her computer has one. I know you're ruining my point. You know what I'm saying,

01:43:46 ◼   ► though? You know what I'm saying? And so what was the other one? Oh, like Ethernet ports.

01:43:51 ◼   ► Like no normal human needs Ethernet ports anymore. I do because I'm a weirdo. You do

01:43:56 ◼   ► because you're a weirdo. But no normal human needs Ethernet ports anymore. And this is

01:44:00 ◼   ► where the entire Internet's going to write in and say, "Oh, actually, you really do need

01:44:03 ◼   ► Ethernet ports for this, that, and the other." Okay, fine, whatever. But I would say most

01:44:07 ◼   ► people who buy MacBook Pros don't need Ethernet ports. And I think the problem that you and

01:44:11 ◼   ► I have is actually the same problem. And although we disagree on the best possible mechanism