ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► So we should start tonight with the sitrep situation report. It is Wednesday the 9th of January

00:00:05 ◼   ► It is about nine o'clock in the evening one true time zone and as of right now, I'm still here

00:00:12 ◼   ► But there is a 50/50 shot that I'm gonna have to run out of this episode in the middle of it

00:00:17 ◼   ► so this is going to be an adventure for all three and kind of four and I guess you could almost even say five of

00:00:22 ◼   ► us as

00:00:23 ◼   ► I might need to leave Aaron might need to go to the hospital and Sprigg may be here

00:00:28 ◼   ► I mean, it is actually—it is theoretically feasible, although I certainly don't hope

00:00:32 ◼   ► it's the case, that by the time this show stops recording, I could have needed to leave,

00:00:39 ◼   ► go to the hospital, and Aaron could hypothetically birth our second child before you two shut

00:00:44 ◼   ► up.

00:00:45 ◼   ► That could happen before you leave the house, let me tell you.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Let's not even go there.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Oh, God.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Do you want to tell that story?

00:00:51 ◼   ► Yeah, Jon, you have some experience with this.

00:00:53 ◼   ► And I don't think I've told that story at length on this podcast.

00:00:56 ◼   ► We don't need to do it today.

00:00:57 ◼   ► today.

00:00:58 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:59 ◼   ► We should start with some follow-up though.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Let's talk about Meltdown, Spectre, and all the things that are happening.

00:01:06 ◼   ► My timeline's a little fuzzy because I've been a bit preoccupied, so we did have this

00:01:10 ◼   ► link from Apple during the last recording, right?

00:01:12 ◼   ► We did not.

00:01:13 ◼   ► With the official—oh, we did not.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Okay, I'm sorry.

00:01:15 ◼   ► They hadn't posted it yet.

00:01:16 ◼   ► You guys have been talking about the WebKit one?

00:01:18 ◼   ► No, no, no, no.

00:01:19 ◼   ► This is the original official—

00:01:20 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Because the WebKit one is also excellent.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:23 ◼   ► I didn't get a chance to read that.

00:01:24 ◼   ► I've been preoccupied.

00:01:25 ◼   ► If you have that link, put it in the notes.

00:01:27 ◼   ► I'll take it out.

00:01:28 ◼   ► I've already downloaded the update, but I didn't read the note for it.

00:01:31 ◼   ► It's nice that they released the Safari update for old OS.

00:01:34 ◼   ► I'm staring at El Cap right here, and I got the Safari update, which, I mean, that's another

00:01:39 ◼   ► complaint people have about the spectrum meltdown thing and how Apple is handling it.

00:01:43 ◼   ► They're like, "So, where is the kernel update for any version other than the very, very

00:01:48 ◼   ► latest version of Mac OS?"

00:01:50 ◼   ► That's not really how Apple rolls, which is kind of disappointing.

00:01:53 ◼   ► would hope that Apple would – there's one aspect that Apple should adopt a little

00:01:58 ◼   ► bit more of the enterprising mindset to say for super critical security things, maybe

00:02:04 ◼   ► consider backporting some number of versions instead of just saying, "No, the only thing

00:02:08 ◼   ► that exists is the very, very bleeding edge."

00:02:10 ◼   ► But, you know, Apple's going to Apple.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Apple is going to Apple.

00:02:14 ◼   ► All right.

00:02:15 ◼   ► So can you walk me through the official Apple statement, if you don't mind, Jon?

00:02:18 ◼   ► Oh, there's nothing much there.

00:02:19 ◼   ► It's just another one of these, you know, fairly straightforward explanations.

00:02:23 ◼   ► So the last time Apple didn't even have one and it was just – they were just a little

00:02:26 ◼   ► bit late in putting it out.

00:02:28 ◼   ► But it's not a super great explanation.

00:02:30 ◼   ► Lots of people have been sending links to explanations that help them understand what

00:02:36 ◼   ► this is all about.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Most of them I found to be not to my liking because – like it's a difference in audience.

00:02:44 ◼   ► It's like if you – if most of the words we said in the last show didn't make any sense

00:02:48 ◼   ► to you, you need a different kind of explanation.

00:02:51 ◼   ► So those people who need that kind of explanation are the ones reading articles where they compare

00:02:55 ◼   ► it to a waiter or to like music or a factory or all sorts of things that use analogies

00:03:05 ◼   ► to real-world things to try to explain to people how instruction pipelines work, what

00:03:11 ◼   ► speculative execution is, what branch prediction is, stuff like that.

00:03:14 ◼   ► And so it's been interesting to see the different variety of analogies and metaphors that are

00:03:19 ◼   ► used in those articles, but apparently a lot of them are really helping people understand

00:03:24 ◼   ► this in a way that, for example, our previous show would not have and did not.

00:03:28 ◼   ► So we apologize for that, but we're glad there's lots of good explainers out there for you.

00:03:33 ◼   ► I think the Raspberry Pi folks had one of the more popular, let's say, layperson's explanation

00:03:43 ◼   ► of it, with a great capper at the end where they say, after many, many paragraphs of laborious

00:03:48 ◼   ► And Raspberry Pi doesn't suffer this because we use CPUs that don't have speculative execution.

00:03:53 ◼   ► Which is not really something to brag about because that means they use cheap, very old,

00:03:57 ◼   ► very weak CPUs because Raspberry Pi is a small, cheap, low-powered thing.

00:04:04 ◼   ► But it's nice for them.

00:04:06 ◼   ► Let's see, what else has come out about this in the meantime?

00:04:11 ◼   ► Oh, the second link here in the same topic is this is the best webpage I've found showing

00:04:18 ◼   ► what the speed hit is on the Mac for the patches that

00:04:23 ◼   ► work around this.

00:04:25 ◼   ► And as always, it's not-- there's no clear cut answer.

00:04:29 ◼   ► So as the summary of this article says,

00:04:33 ◼   ► the main question to be answered is if the performance impact

00:04:36 ◼   ► exists.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Yes, it is very clear.

00:04:37 ◼   ► You can look at the graphs.

00:04:38 ◼   ► There's the performance impact.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Is it relevant?

00:04:41 ◼   ► It depends.

00:04:42 ◼   ► And that's the worst kind of answer.

00:04:43 ◼   ► What do you mean it depends?

00:04:44 ◼   ► It really totally depends on exactly what you're doing,

00:04:46 ◼   ► exactly how many system calls you're making.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Another interesting thing to come out of this article

00:04:51 ◼   ► is another measurement of the performance hit of APFS

00:04:54 ◼   ► versus HFS+, which they weren't intending to measure that,

00:04:58 ◼   ► but they sort of accidentally did

00:04:59 ◼   ► when they compared Sierra to High Sierra without the patch

00:05:03 ◼   ► to High Sierra with the patch.

00:05:04 ◼   ► The performance impact of APFS,

00:05:07 ◼   ► the negative performance impact of APFS, encrypted APFS,

00:05:11 ◼   ► far outweighs the impact of this security patch.

00:05:15 ◼   ► I don't know if we've talked about that before,

00:05:17 ◼   ► but APFS in general is slower than HFS+ in most

00:05:20 ◼   ► of the benchmarks, which I would think

00:05:22 ◼   ► is to be expected because HFS+ was a file system that

00:05:26 ◼   ► was tuned to be acceptably fast on a computer in 1989

00:05:30 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:05:31 ◼   ► So it's massively overmatched by the power we have now.

00:05:34 ◼   ► And APFS has way more features and is a way more modern file

00:05:37 ◼   ► system and so is not going to be as fast as something that used

00:05:41 ◼   ► to run really well on a Mac SE.

00:05:44 ◼   ► Hopefully APFS will get faster in the future, right?

00:05:46 ◼   ► But it's very new.

00:05:47 ◼   ► But it also, it just plain does more.

00:05:49 ◼   ► It has more features than HFS Plus and more safety.

00:05:52 ◼   ► - The Space Gray peripherals are selling

00:05:55 ◼   ► for hilarious prices on eBay.

00:05:58 ◼   ► The three of us were kind of giggling about the thought

00:06:00 ◼   ► that oh, since these are so rare,

00:06:01 ◼   ► that they may command, I mean probably will command

00:06:05 ◼   ► some amount of premium over what a regular device

00:06:07 ◼   ► would look like.

00:06:08 ◼   ► So quick refresher, the iMac Pro,

00:06:10 ◼   ► since it's that sexy Space Gray,

00:06:12 ◼   ► The peripherals also have to be sexy space gray, and by default you can order the computer

00:06:17 ◼   ► with a ten-key, what do you call it, full-size, so not a ten-key list, a full-size Bluetooth

00:06:24 ◼   ► Apple keyboard, and either a Magic Mouse or Magic Trackpad, or you can optionally, for

00:06:29 ◼   ► some amount of money, I don't remember how much, you can get both the trackpad and the

00:06:32 ◼   ► mouse.

00:06:33 ◼   ► These are only available if you buy a iMac Pro, so naturally they're very, very fancy

00:06:38 ◼   ► and special.

00:06:40 ◼   ► has dug up some eBay listings that if you're listening to this far in the future will probably

00:06:45 ◼   ► not be available, but a triplet of Magic Keyboard, Trackpad, and Mouse is not going for, went

00:06:53 ◼   ► as of yesterday for $1,080. So that's $1,000 for a trackpad, a keyboard, and a mouse. Oh,

00:07:00 ◼   ► and presumably a light, a bespoke lightning cable actually.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Oh, the black lightning cable, you include that, of course it puts it over the top.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Of course, of course.

00:07:08 ◼   ► - Lightning cable.

00:07:09 ◼   ► I refuse to believe these are real people.

00:07:11 ◼   ► These have to be speculators.

00:07:13 ◼   ► - But there's at least, if you search eBay sold items

00:07:17 ◼   ► for like space gray Magic Trackpad,

00:07:19 ◼   ► you get all these listings and it's, there's not--

00:07:21 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, no, that's why I put this in there

00:07:23 ◼   ► because we thought they wouldn't sell for that much

00:07:24 ◼   ► and they totally are selling for a lot of money.

00:07:26 ◼   ► The question is who are they selling to?

00:07:27 ◼   ► And that's the secondary thing is like,

00:07:29 ◼   ► so are real people actually putting this much stock in this

00:07:32 ◼   ► or is it speculation where people believe

00:07:35 ◼   ► that this will be a high ticket item for a long time.

00:07:39 ◼   ► I continue to believe that Apple will eventually,

00:07:42 ◼   ► that Apple will eventually allow you to buy peripherals

00:07:46 ◼   ► that are this color separately,

00:07:47 ◼   ► which will of course destroy the market for these things.

00:07:49 ◼   ► So I hope the people who bought them

00:07:50 ◼   ► are able to resell them at a profit before that happens.

00:07:53 ◼   ► But I don't know when that will happen, presumably.

00:07:56 ◼   ► - I mean, this is kind of like trying to be

00:07:57 ◼   ► like an iPhone speculator, like on, like,

00:07:59 ◼   ► the biggest market for these things is behind us

00:08:02 ◼   ► and it's going down every day, not up.

00:08:04 ◼   ► So anybody buying these for this price,

00:08:08 ◼   ► they're the worst speculators in the world.

00:08:09 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:08:11 ◼   ► These are only gonna get more common

00:08:13 ◼   ► and more available over time.

00:08:15 ◼   ► And they're really cool right now,

00:08:17 ◼   ► or really two weeks ago, because they're brand new

00:08:20 ◼   ► and no one's seen them before in these colors.

00:08:22 ◼   ► But that is a very temporary thing.

00:08:25 ◼   ► The window of time to make a profit there is very short.

00:08:28 ◼   ► - The only way it would work is if Apple never makes

00:08:31 ◼   ► another space gray computer with space gray vehicles.

00:08:33 ◼   ► the iMac Pro, like they continue to make the iMac Pro but it changes color and this was

00:08:37 ◼   ► like the only generation of these things, then you could have some value.

00:08:40 ◼   ► But just ask somebody, Stephen Hackett, with an Apple TV, not that one, no, no, not that

00:08:46 ◼   ► one, no the other one, no, not that one, the black, no, not this black one, the other other,

00:08:52 ◼   ► I don't know how to refer to the Apple TV.

00:08:54 ◼   ► It was a giant Macintosh computer that could also be a television, it was also hideous,

00:08:57 ◼   ► the other one was also black.

00:09:00 ◼   ► And that was it.

00:09:01 ◼   ► There wasn't like a huge collection of black desktop Macintosh computers surrounding that.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Even that doesn't retain its value that well.

00:09:08 ◼   ► So I mean, now you've got me convinced, now I'm starting to hope that these really are

00:09:14 ◼   ► individual people.

00:09:15 ◼   ► Because like if they're speculators, they're probably going to be disappointed.

00:09:19 ◼   ► But if they're individuals, maybe they're happy with their $1,000 purchase of a keyboard

00:09:23 ◼   ► and mouse.

00:09:24 ◼   ► And black Apple stickers.

00:09:27 ◼   ► We forgot about that.

00:09:28 ◼   ► You can get those at the Mac Pro, though.

00:09:29 ◼   ► Those are a dime a dozen.

00:09:30 ◼   ► trash can, you know, they'll throw in, buy some black stickers, they'll throw in a trash

00:09:33 ◼   ► can for free.

00:09:36 ◼   ► So regardless, as of the time of this recording, that full set went for $1,000.

00:09:41 ◼   ► A track pad is for sale for $310 or more, and a Magic Mouse is for sale for $295 or

00:09:48 ◼   ► more.

00:09:49 ◼   ► And really, while you guys were talking, it occurred to me that if Erin really and truly

00:09:54 ◼   ► loved me, she would go ahead and have this baby immediately, because I'm going to be

00:09:58 ◼   ► purchasing my full set from Underscore and he has told me that he will bring them down

00:10:02 ◼   ► when he comes to visit to meet Spriggs. So the quicker that she can pop this baby out,

00:10:06 ◼   ► the quicker I can get my fancy black peripherals. So really, this is all about me and that's

00:10:11 ◼   ► what she really needs to be considerate of.

00:10:13 ◼   ► I mean, there is a faster way to get them.

00:10:16 ◼   ► On eBay, you mean? You gotta wait for the auctions to end.

00:10:20 ◼   ► I believe it's Apple.com/imac-pro-buy or something like that?

00:10:23 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. You got my old computer. Although it's only five times as expensive as the

00:10:28 ◼   ► peripherals by themselves.

00:10:29 ◼   ► That isn't that unreasonable.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Yeah. I already bought mine from Jason, by the way. I use the Apple Messages payment

00:10:37 ◼   ► thing. Is that the first time I used it? Maybe I sent Casey some money.

00:10:40 ◼   ► It is called Apple Pay Cash. And I have now sold two computers with it.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I remember. Anyway, mine is on my way to my keyboard, just the keyboard itself. I did

00:10:48 ◼   ► not pay $1,000.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Jason took pity on you.

00:10:52 ◼   ► And the answer, no, I'm not going to sell the keyboard.

00:10:54 ◼   ► It's not for sale.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - I just noticed today, I had,

00:10:58 ◼   ► a friend of mine had purchased for me

00:11:00 ◼   ► a couple of pieces of clothing

00:11:03 ◼   ► from the Apple Park Visitor Center,

00:11:05 ◼   ► and I paid him with Apple Pay Cash.

00:11:07 ◼   ► Apparently disclosed at some point that I'd forgotten,

00:11:10 ◼   ► or just not well disclosed,

00:11:11 ◼   ► that if you use a credit card for Apple Pay Cash,

00:11:14 ◼   ► there's a 3% service charge, which I was not aware of.

00:11:17 ◼   ► So this $50 transaction was like a $52 transaction.

00:11:21 ◼   ► Not a big deal, but it was very surprising

00:11:23 ◼   ► when I'm looking at my iMessage history

00:11:24 ◼   ► and seeing it was $50.20 or whatever the hell it was.

00:11:27 ◼   ► And then I'm looking at my bank statement

00:11:29 ◼   ► and saying it was $52, or again, whatever the numbers were.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And I did not expect that.

00:11:34 ◼   ► So pro tip, if you're going to be using Apple Pay Cash,

00:11:37 ◼   ► use a debit card.

00:11:38 ◼   ► - But did you get Frequent Flyer miles

00:11:40 ◼   ► or Amazon Prime points or cash back to offset that 3%?

00:11:43 ◼   ► - I will eventually get a smattering of cash back,

00:11:47 ◼   ► probably less than 3%.

00:11:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, but you're not gonna get 3%.

00:11:49 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:11:50 ◼   ► - This is the entire rack of the credit card business.

00:11:53 ◼   ► It's like, they have these, I forget what are they called,

00:11:55 ◼   ► interchange fees, something like that,

00:11:57 ◼   ► which is part of that 3%.

00:11:58 ◼   ► And it's like--

00:12:00 ◼   ► - But usually the vendor pays it, not you.

00:12:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's no way to charge money to a credit card

00:12:05 ◼   ► without somebody paying a fee of at least around

00:12:08 ◼   ► 2.5%, depending on their merchant deal and everything.

00:12:12 ◼   ► And so like, someone's paying that some way

00:12:14 ◼   ► refusing a credit card.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Debit cards are all different and don't work that way.

00:12:16 ◼   ► Bank transfers are different and don't work that way,

00:12:18 ◼   ► but credit cards all work that way.

00:12:20 ◼   ► Like someone is paying that fee.

00:12:22 ◼   ► John is right, usually it's the vendor.

00:12:24 ◼   ► In this case, it's like if you want the person

00:12:26 ◼   ► to receive this money, then you have to pay the fee.

00:12:30 ◼   ► If you want them to receive 50 bucks and not 47 or whatever,

00:12:33 ◼   ► you're paying 52 to give them 50.

00:12:35 ◼   ► But that's just the nature of credit cards

00:12:37 ◼   ► and sending money online.

00:12:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm not disappointed by this,

00:12:41 ◼   ► or if I am, I'm disappointed in myself

00:12:43 ◼   ► for not having remembered,

00:12:44 ◼   ► but it was something that I did not expect.

00:12:46 ◼   ► So this is your PSA, ladies and gentlemen.

00:12:49 ◼   ► use a debit card if you can.

00:12:51 ◼   ► - Also note that the rewards that you're gonna get for that

00:12:53 ◼   ► are probably not exceeding about 1.5%.

00:12:57 ◼   ► It's, that would like, the really good rewards

00:13:00 ◼   ► end up being along the lines of 1.5%.

00:13:02 ◼   ► Anybody out there who thinks like,

00:13:03 ◼   ► oh I'll pay the surcharge for something,

00:13:06 ◼   ► but I'll get it back in rewards, no, you won't.

00:13:09 ◼   ► The house always wins.

00:13:11 ◼   ► - We had a couple of people write in

00:13:13 ◼   ► that are either ex-Apple geniuses or Apple geniuses,

00:13:17 ◼   ► And they made the same point, which was part of the reason that Apple geniuses tend to

00:13:23 ◼   ► be reluctant to do a battery replacement is that oftentimes that isn't really the problem.

00:13:31 ◼   ► You know, sometimes a slowdown or perhaps a really tough battery situation is because

00:13:37 ◼   ► you've been playing a shed load of Pokemon Go and you didn't disclose that when you were

00:13:41 ◼   ► talking to the genius.

00:13:43 ◼   ► And the easier answer, rather than either charging Apple money or charging the customer

00:13:47 ◼   ► money even more importantly is to just say, "Hey, maybe cool it on the catch and the

00:13:51 ◼   ► Pokemans. Maybe that'll do a little better for you." So that was an interesting point

00:13:56 ◼   ► I hadn't considered.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Yeah. Like you said, we got this feedback a lot and it's not like they're refusing to

00:14:04 ◼   ► do it for your own good. What they're trying to avoid is a situation where a customer comes

00:14:08 ◼   ► in and says, "I have a problem." And then a customer, and this must happen all the time,

00:14:12 ◼   ► the customer decides they know what the solution to the problem is. This isn't exclusive to

00:14:16 ◼   ► a battery, it's just whatever, anything. It could be your car or a vacuum cleaner or

00:14:20 ◼   ► whatever. Customer has a problem and customer says, "And by the way, I'm also sure I know

00:14:25 ◼   ► how to fix this problem. I want you to replace the belt on my whatever. I want you to give

00:14:30 ◼   ► me a new whatever." They have diagnosed the problem, they know exactly what's wrong, and

00:14:35 ◼   ► they just say, "Look, just don't give me a runaround. Just put a new battery in my car."

00:14:41 ◼   ► I mean, this is the market with these stupid electric cars. You know what I mean, the 12-volt

00:14:44 ◼   ► "I have one of those too."

00:14:47 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe the problem is like an engine control unit or maybe it's a gasket that's

00:14:52 ◼   ► blown over.

00:14:53 ◼   ► So the person who wants to look at your car says, "Let us, the car fixing experts, look

00:14:57 ◼   ► at your car and run all our little diagnostics and we'll tell you what's wrong with it."

00:15:00 ◼   ► But it's like, "No, no, no," the customer says, "I don't care what you find.

00:15:03 ◼   ► I know that this is exactly what I need."

00:15:05 ◼   ► And service centers or Apple or whatever are reluctant to do that because if they say,

00:15:10 ◼   ► will do it and they do it even if they do it for free but especially if they charge you to do it,

00:15:16 ◼   ► right? And then they give the thing back to you and say, "Okay, we did what you asked. We replaced

00:15:21 ◼   ► your whatever. Here you go." Then they come back the next day and said, "The problem is still there."

00:15:25 ◼   ► And now you have the argument, it's like, "Well, you know, we didn't say this would fix your

00:15:29 ◼   ► problem but you insisted we do this because you thought it would fix your problem but it turns

00:15:32 ◼   ► out it didn't." And that's a conversation you never want to have with the customer because they're

00:15:35 ◼   ► They're going to be like, "I don't care," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:15:37 ◼   ► So what Apple wants to do is you, customer, just describe your problem and then we'll

00:15:41 ◼   ► figure out what it takes to fix it, whether that's give you a completely new device or

00:15:45 ◼   ► replace a bunch of parts or whatever it's going to be.

00:15:47 ◼   ► But if you come to us and demand we do a specific thing, especially if you demand we do it for

00:15:51 ◼   ► free under warranty, it could just be a waste of both of our times.

00:15:55 ◼   ► So that's all well and good.

00:15:56 ◼   ► And we've heard that from a lot of people and I know where they're coming from and sometimes

00:15:59 ◼   ► I know where customers are coming from because sometimes I'm that customer who says, "Look,

00:16:02 ◼   ► I just do this.

00:16:03 ◼   ► Like, just replace this thing.

00:16:05 ◼   ► I won't yell at you if it doesn't work, but I'm pretty sure this is it.

00:16:09 ◼   ► But my question to a couple of these Apple geniuses was, "Okay, fine, whatever."

00:16:13 ◼   ► Say somebody comes in like I did and says, "There's nothing wrong with my phone.

00:16:19 ◼   ► I don't actually have a problem.

00:16:20 ◼   ► All I want to do is give you money in exchange for that money.

00:16:24 ◼   ► You take out the battery that's in there and put in a new one."

00:16:27 ◼   ► And for the most part, the Apple geniuses said, "Yeah, we'll do that.

00:16:31 ◼   ► Like as long as we're all on the same page, that there's not an actual problem that we're

00:16:34 ◼   ► trying to solve.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Like there's no acknowledge problem at all, it's just a thing you want to happen.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Not going to do it under warranty for free if there's no problem obviously because that's

00:16:42 ◼   ► just wasteful.

00:16:43 ◼   ► And that was one angle that some people brought up is the waste of like if you have a perfectly

00:16:47 ◼   ► good battery, us replacing it even if you pass is not particularly environmentally conscious

00:16:52 ◼   ► because batteries are all filled with heavy metals and other things that are not great.

00:16:58 ◼   ► So why would you take a perfectly good battery and throw away and replace it with another

00:17:01 ◼   ► one?

00:17:02 ◼   ► So I kind of see that at an angle too, but in the end I feel like if someone comes in

00:17:06 ◼   ► with a wad of money, especially if it's $80 and not $30, and says, "My phone has no problems,

00:17:12 ◼   ► but please replace my battery, you should do so."

00:17:13 ◼   ► And like I said, I did that and they did replace it for me, but there was a weird pause about

00:17:17 ◼   ► it.

00:17:18 ◼   ► So it would be better if there was less mystery surrounding this process, and it would be

00:17:22 ◼   ► much better if more customers knew how accessible battery replacements are for their iOS devices.

00:17:29 ◼   ► Of course, this—or I should use past tense—how accessible they were, because the other strain

00:17:35 ◼   ► of feedback we got is from long-suffering Apple retail employees who are now in the

00:17:40 ◼   ► midst of what they described as a terrible situation where many, many angry customers

00:17:45 ◼   ► are coming to the stores wanting new batteries, and they don't have any new batteries, and

00:17:49 ◼   ► like a week long wait time and people are super angry and like, "I want my free battery!"

00:17:54 ◼   ► And the public understanding of this problem, as we predicted, is not very good. People

00:17:59 ◼   ► are just angry and just want either new batteries for free or new phones and they're even more

00:18:03 ◼   ► angry when you tell them that even if we could give you what you want, you have to wait a

00:18:08 ◼   ► week. So, bummer for Apple, but it's kind of their own deal.

00:18:13 ◼   ► This is kind of, it reminds me of the Takata, whatever it is, airbag recall because I got

00:18:18 ◼   ► a notice from my car, geez, I want to say like a year ago, maybe even more that, oh,

00:18:25 ◼   ► your airbag is screwed up and hey, it may kill you, but there's nothing we can do about

00:18:29 ◼   ► it right now because we don't have any. And it wasn't replaced until just a couple of

00:18:33 ◼   ► months back. That to me is a far more egregious issue in that if I got in an accident, the

00:18:41 ◼   ► airbag that's supposed to save my life might actually injure me. Whereas this is just,

00:18:45 ◼   ► "Oh, my phone isn't working as quickly as I want."

00:18:47 ◼   ► And man, I took a lot, I heard a lot of grumpy people

00:18:51 ◼   ► that were upset at me for not taking Apple behind the shed

00:18:56 ◼   ► and shooting it in the face or whatever,

00:18:58 ◼   ► because I was not extremely grumpy about this battery issue.

00:19:01 ◼   ► That analogy fell down as soon as I opened my mouth.

00:19:05 ◼   ► - Casey has interesting child discipline techniques.

00:19:07 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:19:08 ◼   ► - That fell down as soon as I opened my mouth,

00:19:10 ◼   ► but it was too late.

00:19:11 ◼   ► But anyway, we'll fix it in post.

00:19:13 ◼   ► The point I'm driving at though is there were a lot of people that were really grumpy,

00:19:16 ◼   ► I know we won't, that were really grumpy that I wasn't grumpy about this, you know, slow

00:19:20 ◼   ► down thing.

00:19:21 ◼   ► And I'm sorry, but like hey, I'm sorry if an older phone isn't as fast as it once was.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Like everyone needs to take a damn chill pill.

00:19:30 ◼   ► It's frustrating, yes, but holy cow, people are really worked up about this.

00:19:34 ◼   ► It's not an airbag, it's not a malfunctioning seatbelt, it's a telephone.

00:19:39 ◼   ► It'll be okay.

00:19:41 ◼   ► Speaking of cars and recalls, I had an annoying experience with my Honda recently.

00:19:44 ◼   ► They had some recall thing and I was, I think I was going in for regular service anyway

00:19:48 ◼   ► or maybe it was just encouraging me to go in.

00:19:50 ◼   ► But anyway, some recall, I'm like, "Fine, whatever.

00:19:51 ◼   ► Do my recall thing.

00:19:52 ◼   ► It's free.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Not a big deal."

00:19:54 ◼   ► It was like a battery.

00:19:55 ◼   ► It was one of those paranoid things where like if you get a bunch of salt on this battery

00:19:59 ◼   ► terminal it could potentially spark and do a blah, blah, blah and it's like, "That's

00:20:02 ◼   ► never going to happen.

00:20:03 ◼   ► Like, yes, there's salt everywhere but I'm not afraid my thing is going to explode.

00:20:07 ◼   ► I can see the battery.

00:20:08 ◼   ► It's sitting right there.

00:20:09 ◼   ► It's not in danger of spewing flame."

00:20:10 ◼   ► Anyway, whatever.

00:20:11 ◼   ► So, fine, they do some battery terminal, watch a mosey.

00:20:15 ◼   ► And I thought it was fine.

00:20:16 ◼   ► And then like two months later, I get another recall message.

00:20:19 ◼   ► I'm like, "Oh, I can ignore that.

00:20:20 ◼   ► I already did that recall."

00:20:21 ◼   ► And I'm like, "No, this is a different recall."

00:20:24 ◼   ► Like, for the same thing, for the battery terminal?

00:20:26 ◼   ► And my vague understanding of this, I was mostly just too annoyed to look into it very

00:20:30 ◼   ► deeply, was that the first recall was like a temporary patch where they just threw some

00:20:37 ◼   ► goop on something or sealed something up to prevent this potential sparking giant explosion

00:20:42 ◼   ► from the battery because they didn't have enough of the replacement part that they should

00:20:48 ◼   ► have replaced it with.

00:20:49 ◼   ► And the second recall is, "Hey, guess what?

00:20:51 ◼   ► We got the replacement parts now, so come back in and we'll get rid of that little temporary

00:20:55 ◼   ► fix we did and put in the replacement part."

00:20:56 ◼   ► I suppose it's nice that they would do two recalls for free, but as anyone with a car

00:21:00 ◼   ► knows, even more so than with phones and maybe equally so with an all-in-one computer, they

00:21:07 ◼   ► or like Marco's iMac, the worst part of any of these things

00:21:10 ◼   ► is having to go in to the dealer or having to go in at all.

00:21:14 ◼   ► Doesn't really matter what they do when they're there

00:21:16 ◼   ► or if it costs no money, the time and hassle

00:21:18 ◼   ► of just getting the car to the dealer

00:21:20 ◼   ► and waiting while they do whatever,

00:21:22 ◼   ► it's so much worse than any other aspect of the experience

00:21:25 ◼   ► that it almost doesn't matter what they do.

00:21:28 ◼   ► So you had to go to the dealer two times.

00:21:30 ◼   ► At least with the Apple thing, you only have to go once

00:21:33 ◼   ► unless I suppose you take a two hour drive to the mall

00:21:35 ◼   ► and get there and find out they tell you

00:21:36 ◼   ► that you have to come back in a week

00:21:38 ◼   ► when they have batteries in stock.

00:21:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've had similar issues with service issues

00:21:44 ◼   ► with Tesla, like they just are out of every part ever,

00:21:47 ◼   ► all the time, and like they had a battery,

00:21:50 ◼   ► they had a parking brake recall last summer.

00:21:53 ◼   ► I still haven't gotten it done.

00:21:55 ◼   ► I'm still waiting for them to call me

00:21:56 ◼   ► to tell me they have my part in.

00:21:57 ◼   ► Like I've called them like every like three months or so

00:21:59 ◼   ► to check on this. (laughs)

00:22:01 ◼   ► Like they still don't have anything.

00:22:01 ◼   ► - In the meantime, don't park on hills?

00:22:03 ◼   ► What did I tell you?

00:22:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:22:04 ◼   ► It was apparently a minor thing,

00:22:06 ◼   ► But like, I also ordered snow tires on,

00:22:10 ◼   ► in like early December sometime.

00:22:13 ◼   ► And when you order something from Tesla's online parts store

00:22:15 ◼   ► or something like that that like has to be installed

00:22:17 ◼   ► somehow, somewhere, what they do is they just deliver it

00:22:20 ◼   ► to your local service center and then they call you

00:22:23 ◼   ► or email you when it's ready and you set up an appointment

00:22:25 ◼   ► to get it installed.

00:22:27 ◼   ► So I ordered these snow tires in early December.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Time goes by, I got nothing.

00:22:31 ◼   ► I get no emails, there's no order status lookup page,

00:22:35 ◼   ► There's nothing, like, this is, it's like an online store

00:22:38 ◼   ► designed in 1992, like there's like,

00:22:40 ◼   ► it's the most bare bones thing ever.

00:22:42 ◼   ► You halfway expect to see a clear form button on the bottom,

00:22:45 ◼   ► like it's that bare bones.

00:22:47 ◼   ► So like, middle of last week, I'm like, you know,

00:22:50 ◼   ► it's snowing constantly, I really could use the snow tires,

00:22:53 ◼   ► where the heck are they?

00:22:55 ◼   ► And I still had nothing from Tesla,

00:22:56 ◼   ► and I got an email saying,

00:22:58 ◼   ► please rate your recent service experience at Tesla.

00:23:01 ◼   ► I was like, I didn't get any service recently.

00:23:05 ◼   ► I wonder if maybe their system just didn't send me

00:23:09 ◼   ► that email, screwed up in all these different ways,

00:23:11 ◼   ► but maybe it thought that them arriving

00:23:13 ◼   ► at the service center was a service visit

00:23:17 ◼   ► and generated that email.

00:23:19 ◼   ► So I called the service center, and sure enough,

00:23:20 ◼   ► they're like, "Oh yeah, we have 'em in now."

00:23:23 ◼   ► Like, oh, like-- - Wonderful.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - They've just been chillin' out.

00:23:25 ◼   ► - Thanks for tellin' me.

00:23:26 ◼   ► - They're the office mascot now, you're forcing no tires.

00:23:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're like, "Oh yeah, when do you wanna come

00:23:30 ◼   ► "and have 'em installed?"

00:23:31 ◼   ► "Yeah, thanks."

00:23:32 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm having them installed tomorrow.

00:23:33 ◼   ► - Since I have you.

00:23:33 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, it's like everything with Tesla service

00:23:36 ◼   ► and parts is a disaster, and just trying to get things

00:23:40 ◼   ► there and availability, everything's constantly backordered

00:23:43 ◼   ► and like the cars are so great, I'm so happy with the car,

00:23:47 ◼   ► but God, if you ever need to wait for a part,

00:23:49 ◼   ► it's not a good experience.

00:23:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a bummer.

00:23:54 ◼   ► Right, so tell me about iPhone X screen burn-in.

00:23:58 ◼   ► - There's a question we had about the Apple source OLED phone.

00:24:01 ◼   ► OLED has burn-in issues, supposedly worse burn-in issues than LCD, but of course Android

00:24:08 ◼   ► phones that had OLED screens for a long time, so presumably it was a known quantity.

00:24:12 ◼   ► This is the first test I've seen of an actual iPhone X versus a couple of popular Android

00:24:17 ◼   ► phones with OLED screens for burn-in.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Unfortunately, it is all in, what are we going to say, is that Chinese, Korean?

00:24:25 ◼   ► I'm not good at looking at text and telling exactly what's on your—Korean, I usually

00:24:31 ◼   ► for the closed circles because there's this looks more Korean to me but I'm not

00:24:35 ◼   ► sure yeah Chinese and Japanese don't have the closed circles I think I'm gonna

00:24:38 ◼   ► find Japanese the best anyway all that is to say I don't know what it says

00:24:42 ◼   ► except what Google Translate tells me there's a YouTube video and an article

00:24:45 ◼   ► but the upshot of it appears to be that the iPhone 10 resisted burn in much much

00:24:51 ◼   ► better than the two other Android phones that they tested they they had it on

00:24:55 ◼   ► full brightness on the same image for like hundreds of hours to get very mild

00:24:58 ◼   ► burn-in. So it looks pretty good. Probably better than, like, say my iPad 3 or many other

00:25:05 ◼   ► past LCD iOS devices that I found suffered pretty severe image retention after a couple

00:25:11 ◼   ► of years. Obviously this iPhone X is newish. It's not a three-year-old iPhone X, but compared

00:25:15 ◼   ► to its... compared to a couple of contemporary phones, it looks like it's pretty good. So

00:25:19 ◼   ► I think Apple got a pretty good screen here.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Chat room says Korean.

00:25:23 ◼   ► Survey says...

00:25:24 ◼   ► Close circles. Close circles. That's the secret.

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00:27:26 ◼   ► I do have a very quick, very quick review of my iMac Pro

00:27:33 ◼   ► after finally having a week of like real use.

00:27:36 ◼   ► In this week I have done lots of podcast editing,

00:27:39 ◼   ► I have done Xcode work, programming work with iOS apps,

00:27:43 ◼   ► with my one iOS app,

00:27:44 ◼   ► and I have also done a lot of video transcoding.

00:27:47 ◼   ► I ripped a couple of Blu-rays

00:27:49 ◼   ► and did some video transcoding work,

00:27:51 ◼   ► including some pretty heavy ones

00:27:53 ◼   ► I was trying to do H.265 and everything else.

00:27:56 ◼   ► I have yet to hear the fan spin up.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Like I have thrown everything I can at this CPU.

00:28:02 ◼   ► Granted I have done almost nothing to the GPU

00:28:04 ◼   ► 'cause that's, you know, my workload is typically

00:28:06 ◼   ► very CPU heavy and pretty light on the GPU.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Oh, I also imported, I think 400 pictures

00:28:12 ◼   ► from the Sony A7R III which we got to

00:28:16 ◼   ► and did, had Lightroom render one to one previews

00:28:20 ◼   ► on import, which I usually do for various reasons.

00:28:23 ◼   ► So I threw everything I could at the CPU.

00:28:26 ◼   ► I've seen all the cores either be maxed out

00:28:28 ◼   ► or be almost maxed out for sustained periods.

00:28:31 ◼   ► I cannot get the fan to spin up

00:28:32 ◼   ► to a level that it's audible.

00:28:34 ◼   ► - Did you play games?

00:28:35 ◼   ► - No, of course not, I don't play games.

00:28:37 ◼   ► But it was--

00:28:38 ◼   ► - You had to play some games on your computer.

00:28:40 ◼   ► - Why, we have the Nintendo Switch.

00:28:42 ◼   ► It's the best game platform ever.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Why would I play games on my computer?

00:28:45 ◼   ► - Because you wanna stress the CPU and the GPU

00:28:48 ◼   ► at the same time, double the heat.

00:28:50 ◼   ► - No, but I don't care.

00:28:51 ◼   ► Do you play games on your fax machine?

00:28:52 ◼   ► Like no, it just--

00:28:53 ◼   ► - This is not for science, not for you, it's for science.

00:28:56 ◼   ► - Anyway, so all this is to say that so far,

00:29:00 ◼   ► in my week of using this computer pretty heavily,

00:29:03 ◼   ► I'm just incredibly happy with it.

00:29:07 ◼   ► It is so good, it is so fast, it is so quiet.

00:29:12 ◼   ► It is, and it just, it just has no limits for me.

00:29:17 ◼   ► Like, not everything is perfectly fast and stable,

00:29:19 ◼   ► but that's down to software, not hardware.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Like, it is just so damn good.

00:29:24 ◼   ► I'm incredibly happy with the iMac Pro,

00:29:28 ◼   ► and I would say it is,

00:29:30 ◼   ► I wouldn't say extremely likely

00:29:33 ◼   ► that I wouldn't ever need another Mac Pro again, but--

00:29:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:29:37 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:29:38 ◼   ► - But it is--

00:29:39 ◼   ► - Everyone mark this down.

00:29:40 ◼   ► - I'm just saying it is somewhat likely

00:29:43 ◼   ► that I might not need the Mac Pro.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Well, I don't need the Mac Pro,

00:29:47 ◼   ► but I might not want a Mac Pro after this.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Like this is so, so damn good that even though,

00:29:53 ◼   ► I mean I think you know,

00:29:54 ◼   ► Jon's assertion last episode was correct

00:29:56 ◼   ► that there's pretty much no chance

00:29:57 ◼   ► that I don't at least buy the Mac Pro.

00:29:59 ◼   ► So I am probably gonna buy it, but man this is good.

00:30:04 ◼   ► And anybody who thinks, oh maybe this won't be as good

00:30:09 ◼   ► as the Mac Pro, I should wait, honestly,

00:30:12 ◼   ► I don't think you need to wait.

00:30:13 ◼   ► This is the new Mac Pro for all intents and purposes

00:30:17 ◼   ► And it's so good that if you have a need

00:30:20 ◼   ► for this kind of computer right now,

00:30:23 ◼   ► just get this, it's amazing.

00:30:26 ◼   ► - I'm glad you like it, I really am.

00:30:27 ◼   ► I think it's hilarious that you think you would even,

00:30:30 ◼   ► for a fleeting moment, say no to a Mac Pro.

00:30:33 ◼   ► I mean, this is like when I was talking about

00:30:34 ◼   ► the Apple Watch that I didn't want.

00:30:36 ◼   ► Or there were like three or four things in a row

00:30:38 ◼   ► that I told everyone I didn't want

00:30:39 ◼   ► and then ended up immediately reneging on.

00:30:41 ◼   ► - BMWs, Macs.

00:30:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:30:43 ◼   ► I don't think I want a HomePod,

00:30:46 ◼   ► so let's just put that on record right now.

00:30:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think I do either.

00:30:50 ◼   ► - You have no problem sticking to that one

00:30:51 ◼   ► if they never ship it.

00:30:52 ◼   ► - Good point.

00:30:54 ◼   ► But I think it's pretty obvious

00:30:55 ◼   ► that both of us wind up with a HomePod.

00:30:57 ◼   ► - So to address me and you in the chat,

00:30:59 ◼   ► can you functionally tell that this is a much better computer

00:31:01 ◼   ► than the regular iMac without benchmarking or stress testing?

00:31:05 ◼   ► That's a very good question.

00:31:07 ◼   ► You can tell that just whenever you do anything

00:31:09 ◼   ► multi-threaded, it is noticeably faster, obviously,

00:31:11 ◼   ► because I'm going from four cores to 10.

00:31:13 ◼   ► So you're gonna see that difference,

00:31:15 ◼   ► That's a big difference.

00:31:17 ◼   ► It also, besides the cosmetic stuff,

00:31:19 ◼   ► like the space green and everything,

00:31:20 ◼   ► it also just, being able to operate

00:31:23 ◼   ► no matter what you throw at it in silence

00:31:26 ◼   ► is a pretty big difference from the 5K iMac.

00:31:29 ◼   ► The 5K iMac for all, like as I mentioned last episode,

00:31:32 ◼   ► I haven't used that computer for three years.

00:31:34 ◼   ► It's a great computer, and for a lot of people,

00:31:36 ◼   ► that is plenty, that's fine.

00:31:38 ◼   ► But the one thing that always got me about it

00:31:41 ◼   ► that was not true of Mac Pros is that you would hear

00:31:43 ◼   ► the fan spin up, up and down, up and down,

00:31:45 ◼   ► as you, if you were pushing the CPU really hard for things,

00:31:49 ◼   ► you'd hear the fan come up and down with it.

00:31:51 ◼   ► Whereas with this, that doesn't happen.

00:31:53 ◼   ► So that is a pretty big difference,

00:31:55 ◼   ► if you're doing things that really stress it,

00:31:58 ◼   ► and if you care about fan noise.

00:32:00 ◼   ► If one of those things is not true for you,

00:32:03 ◼   ► then you're fine with the regular iMac,

00:32:05 ◼   ► but it's, you are definitely getting something

00:32:08 ◼   ► for the additional money here,

00:32:09 ◼   ► in addition to the performance increases

00:32:12 ◼   ► and the different architecture and the ECC

00:32:14 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:32:15 ◼   ► I would say the ability to run in that silence

00:32:19 ◼   ► could easily come to the iMac, to the regular iMac,

00:32:24 ◼   ► if they redesigned it thermally to be more like this,

00:32:28 ◼   ► but they can't do that, as far as I can tell,

00:32:31 ◼   ► until they remove all ability to put a three and a half inch

00:32:33 ◼   ► hard drive in there.

00:32:35 ◼   ► Because if you look at how the internals of these things

00:32:37 ◼   ► are laid out, the reason the iMac Pro is able to cool itself

00:32:41 ◼   ► not only to cool itself with just such a high thermal load

00:32:44 ◼   ► with all these high-end components in it,

00:32:45 ◼   ► but I think one of the reasons they're able to do it

00:32:47 ◼   ► so quietly is because they have a giant heat sink

00:32:50 ◼   ► and fan assembly located right in the middle of the back,

00:32:53 ◼   ► the thickest part of the enclosure,

00:32:55 ◼   ► and that is right where the 3 1/2 inch hard drive goes

00:32:57 ◼   ► in a regular iMac.

00:32:59 ◼   ► So if they continue to ship iMacs

00:33:02 ◼   ► with hard drive options available,

00:33:05 ◼   ► which honestly I think the time for that is just about done,

00:33:08 ◼   ► probably the next major generation of iMac,

00:33:12 ◼   ► I assume they're probably going to drop the hard drive option.

00:33:16 ◼   ► And if they do, then they can adopt

00:33:18 ◼   ► this kind of thermal design, and then they

00:33:20 ◼   ► can run it in silence too.

00:33:22 ◼   ► The other place people might notice

00:33:23 ◼   ► is speed difference on the iMac Pro, which

00:33:25 ◼   ► is unfortunately undercut by an even more dramatic speed

00:33:28 ◼   ► differences.

00:33:29 ◼   ► If you're coming from a computer like a iMac 5K or even older

00:33:34 ◼   ► that has a spinning drive, even if it's in a Fusion Drive

00:33:36 ◼   ► configuration and you do lots of reading and writing very large files.

00:33:42 ◼   ► And I was going to say, "Oh, you really notice it when you duplicate a 3 gig file."

00:33:46 ◼   ► But unfortunately, APFS makes duplicating a 3 gig file in the same volume instantaneous.

00:33:50 ◼   ► So it kind of kills your ability to see the benchmark.

00:33:51 ◼   ► What I'm getting at is that the SSDs in the iMac Pro are very, very fast, especially for

00:33:57 ◼   ► large bulk transfers of huge files.

00:34:00 ◼   ► It could be that it ends up being, you know, if you're not hooked up to 10 gig Ethernet,

00:34:05 ◼   ► three gigs per second of disk I/O, you're never going to see that.

00:34:11 ◼   ► You're never going to see it on the same volume because APFS will instantly copy it, and you're

00:34:14 ◼   ► never going to see it across the wire because you're limited by the speed of Ethernet.

00:34:17 ◼   ► But rest assured that the disk is much faster.

00:34:19 ◼   ► So if you do things that do a lot of I/O, say just reading a very large file into RAM

00:34:23 ◼   ► or saving out a large file, you may notice those progress bars speed up.

00:34:27 ◼   ► And that's not a multi-threaded thing, it's just like, you know, if you're ever used to

00:34:31 ◼   ► staring at a progress bar when disk.io is going on, that progress bar should go faster

00:34:36 ◼   ► on the iMac Pro than it does on other computers.

00:34:40 ◼   ► But yeah, if you're just running single-threaded applications, the iMac Pro is actually slower

00:34:43 ◼   ► than the top-end 5K iMac for some single-threaded tasks, depending on how many cores you get

00:34:49 ◼   ► in it.

00:34:50 ◼   ► But it's all about the multi-core.

00:34:51 ◼   ► And I suppose if you're doing anything having to do with the GPU, the GPU in the iMac Pro,

00:34:55 ◼   ► even though Marco never uses it to do anything except show Windows on his screen, is way,

00:34:59 ◼   ► way faster than the 5K iMacs.

00:35:01 ◼   ► I think Lightroom uses it.

00:35:03 ◼   ► - Well, plus I've heard reports from Marco from Underscore

00:35:07 ◼   ► and from Jason Snell about how much faster FFmpeg is

00:35:10 ◼   ► and in transcoding video is on their fancy pants iMac Pros.

00:35:14 ◼   ► And pretty much everyone has independently concluded

00:35:17 ◼   ► that it's about twice as fast as their prior 5K iMacs.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Now, I think everyone had older 5K iMacs than I have,

00:35:24 ◼   ► but nevertheless, it's basically a 2X improvement.

00:35:27 ◼   ► And that makes me sad because although I don't

00:35:31 ◼   ► transcode stuff as much as I probably paint it,

00:35:33 ◼   ► I do it often enough that I wish I had more speed

00:35:37 ◼   ► with which to do it.

00:35:38 ◼   ► But do I want to spend 5000 plus dollars

00:35:41 ◼   ► to transcode videos quicker?

00:35:43 ◼   ► No, no I don't.

00:35:45 ◼   ► Speaking of spending a shed load of money,

00:35:47 ◼   ► Marco, tell me about your camera.

00:35:48 ◼   ► - I love that it's, my name always comes up to that phrase.

00:35:52 ◼   ► - It sure does.

00:35:53 ◼   ► - So, sometime last year, I described that I had sold

00:35:58 ◼   ► my formerly beloved Sony A7R II,

00:36:01 ◼   ► to Steven Hackett incidentally,

00:36:04 ◼   ► because I was not happy with its speed and battery life,

00:36:08 ◼   ► were the two big issues with it.

00:36:11 ◼   ► And I had gone back to Canon SLRs,

00:36:15 ◼   ► back from whence I came,

00:36:16 ◼   ► and I was very happy with the handling

00:36:19 ◼   ► and everything of Canon SLRs.

00:36:21 ◼   ► I was never as happy with the pictures

00:36:25 ◼   ► I would get out of the Canon SLRs,

00:36:27 ◼   ► because the Sony had not only a pretty big

00:36:30 ◼   ► megapixel advantage, and the camera I'm talking about

00:36:33 ◼   ► on the Canon side is the 5D Mark IV,

00:36:35 ◼   ► which is an amazing camera.

00:36:38 ◼   ► But the main problem was that it didn't have the megapixels,

00:36:43 ◼   ► it did have the anti-aliasing filter over the sensor,

00:36:47 ◼   ► so you couldn't quite get the level of sharpness

00:36:51 ◼   ► out of the Canon, and it didn't have as advanced

00:36:56 ◼   ► of an autofocus system, and so my hit rate was not as good.

00:37:00 ◼   ► It also didn't have in-body stabilization,

00:37:04 ◼   ► so it also just kind of further lowered the hit rate,

00:37:06 ◼   ► and it couldn't quite achieve the high ISO numbers

00:37:11 ◼   ► or dynamic range in shadows that the Sony could.

00:37:13 ◼   ► It was very close, but it was a noticeable downgrade

00:37:18 ◼   ► in those areas, but I was happy with the Canon

00:37:21 ◼   ► because it was just so much more pleasurable to use

00:37:24 ◼   ► because everything was so much faster,

00:37:26 ◼   ► and it handled so much better and everything.

00:37:28 ◼   ► And I would still stand by the fact

00:37:30 ◼   ► that if you are shooting events,

00:37:32 ◼   ► like if you're in some kind of pro role,

00:37:35 ◼   ► I think the Canon line is still what you want.

00:37:38 ◼   ► And maybe Nikon too, I'm sorry Nikon fans,

00:37:40 ◼   ► I don't know anything about Nikon really.

00:37:42 ◼   ► I rented a D750 once and it was great,

00:37:45 ◼   ► but when it came time to buy,

00:37:46 ◼   ► I wasn't that convinced by the lens lineup

00:37:48 ◼   ► for what I actually would want in my lenses,

00:37:51 ◼   ► and so I didn't go Nikon at any of these points.

00:37:53 ◼   ► but anyway, the main problem I had with the Canon, again,

00:37:58 ◼   ► was just that I wasn't getting my favorite images out of it.

00:38:03 ◼   ► Like, as I was looking back, most of my favorite images

00:38:07 ◼   ► were shot by the Sony, and the Canon was so much more

00:38:10 ◼   ► pleasurable to use and way faster,

00:38:13 ◼   ► and the battery life was way better,

00:38:15 ◼   ► but I just was not getting images

00:38:17 ◼   ► that blew me away out of it.

00:38:19 ◼   ► It really is made for pro use,

00:38:22 ◼   ► and that's where it really does excel.

00:38:24 ◼   ► But that's not what I needed.

00:38:25 ◼   ► I really just wanted a camera that gave me

00:38:27 ◼   ► shockingly good images that just made me feel something

00:38:31 ◼   ► about how good they were.

00:38:33 ◼   ► And the Canon just didn't do that.

00:38:34 ◼   ► Late in 2017, so like a couple months ago,

00:38:40 ◼   ► Sony announced the A7R III.

00:38:42 ◼   ► And it doesn't actually change that much from the A7R II,

00:38:45 ◼   ► but two of the big things it changes

00:38:47 ◼   ► are battery life and performance.

00:38:50 ◼   ► the two big problems I have with the two.

00:38:52 ◼   ► - Convenient.

00:38:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's the same sensor,

00:38:55 ◼   ► a couple of minor improvements here and there,

00:38:56 ◼   ► but for the most part it's fairly similar,

00:39:00 ◼   ► but a battery that's like two and a half times the size,

00:39:04 ◼   ► and a significantly upgraded image processor

00:39:08 ◼   ► and interface and everything else,

00:39:09 ◼   ► so it's just a lot snappier.

00:39:12 ◼   ► I decided since the Christmas season

00:39:15 ◼   ► is by far my heaviest photography time,

00:39:18 ◼   ► I decided right before Christmas, you know what?

00:39:20 ◼   ► Let me try it, 'cause one thing I did

00:39:22 ◼   ► when I left the Sony ecosystem,

00:39:25 ◼   ► I kept my two favorite lenses,

00:39:26 ◼   ► the 35 2.8 and the 55 1.8 primes.

00:39:31 ◼   ► I kept both of those thinking, you know,

00:39:32 ◼   ► if I ever go back, I'll have these lenses,

00:39:35 ◼   ► I won't have to rebuy them.

00:39:36 ◼   ► If I don't go back after a couple years,

00:39:38 ◼   ► I'll sell them, they'll still have a lot of value

00:39:40 ◼   ► and it's not gonna matter whether I sell them now

00:39:41 ◼   ► or in a year or two.

00:39:43 ◼   ► So I still had the lens, so all I did was buy the body

00:39:45 ◼   ► and I figured, you know what, let me try it.

00:39:47 ◼   ► If it's terrible, I can return it or sell it or something.

00:39:51 ◼   ► And so I shot all through Christmas with it,

00:39:54 ◼   ► and it is fantastic.

00:39:56 ◼   ► It is so, so good.

00:39:58 ◼   ► It is still not to the levels of performance

00:40:01 ◼   ► and battery life that the Canon offers,

00:40:03 ◼   ► that most SLRs can offer, but it's now close enough.

00:40:08 ◼   ► It's now like, those things are not huge hindrances

00:40:11 ◼   ► that annoy me while using it.

00:40:14 ◼   ► They're just now very minor limitations,

00:40:17 ◼   ► but it's a massive difference in those two areas.

00:40:20 ◼   ► And I have taken shots that I just love from this camera.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Like, it is just so good.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And because of the features it offers

00:40:31 ◼   ► and some other performance areas it offers,

00:40:33 ◼   ► especially in regards to autofocus features,

00:40:36 ◼   ► autofocus performance, and low light performance

00:40:39 ◼   ► and in-body stabilization,

00:40:40 ◼   ► it is just an incredibly high keeper rate of what I shoot,

00:40:46 ◼   ► compared to my regular SLR use.

00:40:49 ◼   ► So I'm now back in the Sony world, I guess,

00:40:52 ◼   ► and it's really, really a very good camera.

00:40:57 ◼   ► And it is not cheap, none of this stuff is cheap.

00:40:59 ◼   ► I mean, the camera is like $3,000,

00:41:01 ◼   ► and the lenses I just mentioned, I think,

00:41:03 ◼   ► are seven or eight hundred dollars each.

00:41:07 ◼   ► This is not a cheap thing to do,

00:41:09 ◼   ► but no camera that offers this level of performance is cheap.

00:41:13 ◼   ► You know, the Canon SLRs aren't cheap either.

00:41:15 ◼   ► So within the realm of what you get, I think it is well priced and it is really, really

00:41:22 ◼   ► good and I'm very glad I have it.

00:41:24 ◼   ► So what does Tiff think of it?

00:41:25 ◼   ► Because she was, even when you had the R2, she was the SLR, the Canon SLR diehard who

00:41:31 ◼   ► didn't want to come over to the Sony side of the fence, or the mirrorless side of the

00:41:34 ◼   ► fence even.

00:41:35 ◼   ► Yeah, she very much prefers the Canons.

00:41:38 ◼   ► But she said over Christmas that she was glad

00:41:41 ◼   ► that I got this because it is,

00:41:44 ◼   ► the Sony has pretty big advantages

00:41:47 ◼   ► when you're shooting indoors in low light,

00:41:49 ◼   ► which a lot of our Christmas shooting is exactly that.

00:41:52 ◼   ► And so, and it's also just, you know,

00:41:55 ◼   ► small and unobtrusive and easy to handle

00:41:58 ◼   ► and easy to like have around like in the living room

00:42:01 ◼   ► while we're opening gifts and stuff like that.

00:42:02 ◼   ► So it's like, it was a very, very good camera

00:42:06 ◼   ► for our needs for Christmas.

00:42:07 ◼   ► And so even though it is not her favorite camera

00:42:09 ◼   ► the rest of the year, she was very happy I had it.

00:42:12 ◼   ► And it's gonna continue to be my camera, basically,

00:42:16 ◼   ► and the Canon's will resume being her cameras

00:42:19 ◼   ► the way they used to be.

00:42:20 ◼   ► But yeah, so far--

00:42:22 ◼   ► - She's gotten year-round to use the camera

00:42:24 ◼   ► she doesn't like.

00:42:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, pretty much.

00:42:26 ◼   ► I mean, and she's glad--

00:42:27 ◼   ► - Looks good on you, though.

00:42:28 ◼   ► - And she's glad that I no longer need to use hers.

00:42:31 ◼   ► - Don't laugh at that.

00:42:32 ◼   ► You didn't get that reference.

00:42:33 ◼   ► - I didn't, no.

00:42:34 ◼   ► I was laughing at your voice, really.

00:42:35 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:42:37 ◼   ► - Trust me, that was a dead-on imitation

00:42:39 ◼   ► of the thing I was referencing.

00:42:40 ◼   ► - Good, congratulations.

00:42:41 ◼   ► I give you one point.

00:42:44 ◼   ► - As far as you know, it's dead-on.

00:42:46 ◼   ► - And may God have mercy on your soul.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Actually, that was no points.

00:42:50 ◼   ► Yeah, that's all right.

00:42:50 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:42:51 ◼   ► - Anyway.

00:42:53 ◼   ► All right, so you like your camera.

00:42:54 ◼   ► That's good.

00:42:54 ◼   ► So what are the complaints about other than cost?

00:42:59 ◼   ► Are you 100% happy now,

00:43:00 ◼   ► outside of the fact that you're broke,

00:43:02 ◼   ► or are you just 90% happy?

00:43:05 ◼   ► - I'm pretty happy.

00:43:06 ◼   ► I mean, the battery life is now good enough.

00:43:09 ◼   ► Like, it's to the point where you can,

00:43:11 ◼   ► I was able to shoot with it like all day

00:43:13 ◼   ► and not have to swap batteries.

00:43:15 ◼   ► And that's way different than the A7R II.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Like, I laughed.

00:43:21 ◼   ► The A7R II, when it came out,

00:43:24 ◼   ► it came with two batteries in the box.

00:43:26 ◼   ► That's how bad the battery life is on the A7R II,

00:43:28 ◼   ► they ship it with two batteries.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Like, I've never seen any electronic of any kind

00:43:33 ◼   ► that came with two of its own batteries

00:43:35 ◼   ► because the bagger life was so bad

00:43:37 ◼   ► they knew you would need both.

00:43:39 ◼   ► I've literally never seen that before or since.

00:43:42 ◼   ► But this one only comes with one for a reason.

00:43:44 ◼   ► Like you really don't, like one is fine.

00:43:46 ◼   ► I have a second one just 'cause I was afraid.

00:43:48 ◼   ► So I bought a second one and I did swap it a couple times

00:43:51 ◼   ► during downtime on Christmas day.

00:43:53 ◼   ► Like when we had no need to shoot for like 20 minutes,

00:43:57 ◼   ► I would swap anyway, but I didn't need to.

00:44:00 ◼   ► And I swapped twice and I compared the percentages.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I was like, "Oh, I didn't even need to swap at all.

00:44:05 ◼   ► this is great.

00:44:06 ◼   ► So battery life huge thumbs up.

00:44:09 ◼   ► The performance of things like reviewing images quickly

00:44:12 ◼   ► to make sure you got the focus right and everything

00:44:16 ◼   ► is way faster than it was.

00:44:18 ◼   ► It also has a pretty good feature where,

00:44:20 ◼   ► on the A7, this is really nitpicky

00:44:23 ◼   ► and no one who doesn't own this will even care,

00:44:25 ◼   ► but quickly this is a pretty big upgrade.

00:44:28 ◼   ► The A7R II, if you would try to do something

00:44:31 ◼   ► while it was writing to the card,

00:44:32 ◼   ► it would say operation not available

00:44:34 ◼   ► for a lot of things that you try to do,

00:44:36 ◼   ► this one doesn't do that anymore.

00:44:37 ◼   ► That's a huge, so like, that's like a big waiting point

00:44:40 ◼   ► from A7R II that has gone on A7R III.

00:44:43 ◼   ► So anyway, stuff like that, there's a number of big

00:44:47 ◼   ► and small improvements that remove tons of friction

00:44:50 ◼   ► and annoyances from this camera

00:44:52 ◼   ► that were there in the A7R II.

00:44:54 ◼   ► And the A7R II is an awesome camera already,

00:44:57 ◼   ► so to be able to improve on it so substantially

00:45:00 ◼   ► in only, I think, two years from the original release,

00:45:03 ◼   ► That's pretty good.

00:45:05 ◼   ► So very, very happy.

00:45:07 ◼   ► At the moment, I really have no major complaints about it.

00:45:09 ◼   ► - Good.

00:45:10 ◼   ► Did they change the interface,

00:45:11 ◼   ► the horrible, as far as I'm concerned,

00:45:14 ◼   ► like menu system interface Sony thing?

00:45:17 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, they changed it from one disaster to another.

00:45:19 ◼   ► So it's a lateral move.

00:45:22 ◼   ► It's different.

00:45:23 ◼   ► I don't think it's better, but it is different.

00:45:26 ◼   ► - So they had to learn where to find things all over again.

00:45:27 ◼   ► Was that under the suitcase on screen seven?

00:45:30 ◼   ► Or? (laughing)

00:45:31 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:45:31 ◼   ► - It looks like they added a little joystick

00:45:34 ◼   ► to the back of it too for like focus moving and stuff.

00:45:36 ◼   ► - Yes, I don't really use that very often,

00:45:38 ◼   ► but it is nice when you need it.

00:45:40 ◼   ► - And they replaced the weird Sony AF/MF switch

00:45:44 ◼   ► with a button in the middle of it that's gone now.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, the weird AMF, yeah, the DMF thing.

00:45:50 ◼   ► That's now, that's in the menu somewhere, I don't know.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I usually keep it in continuous focus.

00:45:54 ◼   ► - They use that middle button for eye autofocus.

00:45:56 ◼   ► Do you ever use eye autofocus, is that on the screen?

00:45:57 ◼   ► - I always use eye autofocus.

00:45:59 ◼   ► That's one of the things that makes

00:46:01 ◼   ► the focus engine so awesome on this.

00:46:03 ◼   ► - Do what button do you have that assigned to?

00:46:05 ◼   ► - Oh, I just have it on all the time.

00:46:07 ◼   ► - I thought it was a button, at least on my camera

00:46:09 ◼   ► I think it's a button you have to assign it to.

00:46:10 ◼   ► - I know they upgraded it in some way for this.

00:46:14 ◼   ► I never used it on the two, so I don't know

00:46:17 ◼   ► if it's that different in that way, but yeah.

00:46:20 ◼   ► The eye priority autofocus is great,

00:46:22 ◼   ► and I use it frequently.

00:46:24 ◼   ► - So because on my camera when you do it half button down

00:46:26 ◼   ► it will never do eye autofocus, you have to press

00:46:28 ◼   ► another button that you assign to be eye autofocus

00:46:30 ◼   ► and then the little green square zooms right in

00:46:32 ◼   ► on their eyeball and you know it's doing it.

00:46:34 ◼   ► Like you get the tiny little green square.

00:46:35 ◼   ► - Oh, maybe I'm not doing it.

00:46:37 ◼   ► - Face thing.

00:46:38 ◼   ► I think you're not doing it.

00:46:39 ◼   ► - There's face priority auto focus.

00:46:40 ◼   ► I have that always enabled.

00:46:42 ◼   ► But there might be a different thing.

00:46:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, the auto focus, you'll know you're doing it

00:46:46 ◼   ► because it makes the green focus rectangle

00:46:49 ◼   ► literally the size of their iris.

00:46:51 ◼   ► And it just pinned onto their iris.

00:46:53 ◼   ► - All right, I'll play with it.

00:46:54 ◼   ► 'Cause I just get the whole face as the green rectangle.

00:46:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the reason I bring it up

00:46:57 ◼   ► is because I use that button in the middle

00:47:00 ◼   ► the AF/MF switch to be my autofocus switch

00:47:02 ◼   ► 'cause it's like a thumb thing,

00:47:03 ◼   ► but now with that button gun replaced by the joystick,

00:47:05 ◼   ► I'm not sure what I'd press.

00:47:06 ◼   ► So you have those programmable buttons,

00:47:08 ◼   ► like where the hell they go.

00:47:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's like six different buttons

00:47:11 ◼   ► you can program to do whatever you want.

00:47:12 ◼   ► So you definitely have options.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Also, one thing, with the battery life being so much better,

00:47:18 ◼   ► it allows me to turn on features that the A7R II had,

00:47:23 ◼   ► but that I didn't use because it would kill the battery more.

00:47:25 ◼   ► So one example of that is, I believe it's called Pre-AF,

00:47:29 ◼   ► where like that kind of tries to keep autofocus

00:47:31 ◼   ► in a reasonably ready state

00:47:33 ◼   ► before you actually push the button halfway down,

00:47:36 ◼   ► like just as you're looking around through the viewfinder.

00:47:38 ◼   ► That I can now leave on

00:47:40 ◼   ► because the battery is not so bad

00:47:43 ◼   ► that you have to like turn off half the features

00:47:44 ◼   ► to conserve battery life.

00:47:46 ◼   ► - And that's pre as (beep)

00:47:48 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:47:49 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:47:50 ◼   ► - I couldn't help it, I'm sorry.

00:47:51 ◼   ► - I know, that's fine, yeah.

00:47:53 ◼   ► - Did you, did they make the grip bigger on the body too?

00:47:58 ◼   ► like the little part you grab with your right hand,

00:48:00 ◼   ► does it like poke out from the camera more?

00:48:02 ◼   ► - I no longer have the two,

00:48:03 ◼   ► so I can't do a side by side comparison,

00:48:05 ◼   ► but the whole camera body got slightly deeper.

00:48:10 ◼   ► So maybe, like the overall grip on it

00:48:13 ◼   ► might be slightly bigger, but it's not a huge difference.

00:48:17 ◼   ► - I'm trying to figure out where they put the

00:48:18 ◼   ► two and a half times as big battery,

00:48:20 ◼   ► like 'cause the battery's in that grip,

00:48:21 ◼   ► like the part where you hold it,

00:48:22 ◼   ► so the hole where the battery goes has to be bigger,

00:48:24 ◼   ► so maybe the grip is bigger.

00:48:25 ◼   ► - I think that's why the whole body is bigger, honestly,

00:48:27 ◼   ► It's mostly for the, oh, it's also now dual card slots.

00:48:30 ◼   ► The cards have, the bottom card has UHS-II.

00:48:34 ◼   ► It has like the whole extra row of terminals.

00:48:36 ◼   ► So does the iMac Pro card reader,

00:48:37 ◼   ► so that's way faster now.

00:48:39 ◼   ► The camera also has USB 3.0,

00:48:41 ◼   ► and it has both a micro USB and a USB-C port,

00:48:45 ◼   ► either one of which can be used to power the computer,

00:48:47 ◼   ► to power the camera, charge the battery,

00:48:49 ◼   ► and transfer photos.

00:48:50 ◼   ► - Oh, that's nice.

00:48:51 ◼   ► - USB-C on camera is my dream.

00:48:53 ◼   ► Every time I plug in that terrible micro USB,

00:48:56 ◼   ► whatever that connector is, it always feels like it's broken

00:48:58 ◼   ► and you have to stare out for 10 minutes

00:48:59 ◼   ► to make sure you have it the right way

00:49:01 ◼   ► before you try to jam it in.

00:49:03 ◼   ► - Yep, that's a big quality of life improvement.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And just A, having the camera be able to charge itself

00:49:10 ◼   ► over USB, which the two could do, but Canon's can't.

00:49:13 ◼   ► I love that feature alone, 'cause that means

00:49:16 ◼   ► for most places you would bring it,

00:49:17 ◼   ► you don't have to bring a separate battery charger

00:49:19 ◼   ► unless you really need super fast charging

00:49:21 ◼   ► while one battery's in use.

00:49:23 ◼   ► But if you-- - Now, hold on.

00:49:25 ◼   ► I think you're underplaying this. Even with your amount of enthusiasm, my beloved, and

00:49:30 ◼   ► I love this camera, my Olympus OM-D EM10 has an external battery charger that is not terribly

00:49:37 ◼   ► small and the cable is not terribly conducive to being wrapped up cleanly and nicely. It

00:49:44 ◼   ► drives me insane and I would give almost anything to be able to charge the battery within the

00:49:49 ◼   ► in the camera itself. That in and of itself would make me give all of my money to Sony

00:49:55 ◼   ► or Olympus or what have you so I could charge the stupid batteries in the camera. That's

00:50:00 ◼   ► tremendous.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Most Sonys offer that feature, by the way, including Johns, I believe, right?

00:50:03 ◼   ► Yeah, but before you say that, though, you should consider what—I don't know who

00:50:08 ◼   ► came up with this design. It really wasn't Sony, but anyone who has a camera, fancy or

00:50:13 ◼   ► otherwise, is probably familiar with the idea of a panel somewhere on your camera, probably

00:50:18 ◼   ► with like a fingernail ridge on it

00:50:20 ◼   ► that they expect you to like disengage somehow

00:50:23 ◼   ► and then it just swings out of the way

00:50:25 ◼   ► on this flimsy single pivot

00:50:27 ◼   ► and hopefully doesn't crack off.

00:50:29 ◼   ► Like the doors you have to move to get at the USB things

00:50:32 ◼   ► are like the worst design, flimsiest, most terrifying,

00:50:35 ◼   ► they're going to snap off of my $3,000 camera

00:50:38 ◼   ► in two seconds if I'm not careful, doors.

00:50:40 ◼   ► And it doesn't have to be that way.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Like it's possible to make a sturdy door

00:50:44 ◼   ► covering a bunch of ports, but cameras don't.

00:50:47 ◼   ► They do like literally the, it's like,

00:50:50 ◼   ► by how little material can we attach

00:50:52 ◼   ► this flimsy plastic door to our camera?

00:50:54 ◼   ► Can we do it by like a human hair?

00:50:57 ◼   ► Then do that.

00:50:59 ◼   ► And then you can't quite swing them totally out of the way.

00:51:01 ◼   ► - I'll tell you what though, I've never had one break.

00:51:05 ◼   ► - I know, 'cause everyone is super careful with them.

00:51:06 ◼   ► You treat them with kid gloves,

00:51:08 ◼   ► you're like, ooh, this looks delicate,

00:51:09 ◼   ► so you're super careful with it.

00:51:10 ◼   ► The one on my camera is actually not that bad.

00:51:12 ◼   ► It actually slides like back and then out

00:51:14 ◼   ► and it's almost like a double hinge thing.

00:51:16 ◼   ► but I see the picture of the a7r III it's got three giant flimsy doors all connected

00:51:21 ◼   ► at one point all of which partially block the ports unless you like twist them like

00:51:25 ◼   ► 720 degrees around like rotate them out of the way until you find a position where they're

00:51:29 ◼   ► not blocking the ports I really wish they would fix that I'm not asking for waterproof

00:51:34 ◼   ► cameras here I'm just saying like make the doors a little bit more a little more sturdy

00:51:38 ◼   ► to match the rest of the camera looks pretty rugged like but those those doors no good

00:51:42 ◼   ► Well, I wish you didn't like this camera as much as you do, Marcos. I was hoping you'd

00:51:47 ◼   ► be like, "Oh, no, it's still no good. I go back to my Canon because now I want this camera

00:51:50 ◼   ► and it costs too much money."

00:51:51 ◼   ► I mean, that would be funnier on the show if I did that, but unfortunately I don't see

00:51:57 ◼   ► it happening. I'm just so much happier with, like, as I said, the a7R II was such a great

00:52:03 ◼   ► camera but just was let down by a few of its, you know, lacking technologies or choices.

00:52:08 ◼   ► and this one fixes them all.

00:52:10 ◼   ► So it's really good.

00:52:11 ◼   ► - You were pessimistic about it too, by the way,

00:52:14 ◼   ► when the camera came out, like no one had gotten

00:52:16 ◼   ► to test it yet, you were like,

00:52:17 ◼   ► "Oh no, it's probably not gonna be that great,

00:52:19 ◼   ► "maybe the battery life's better, but whatever."

00:52:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, because we had an Ask ATP question

00:52:24 ◼   ► like three, four months ago when it came out

00:52:26 ◼   ► from somebody saying, "Am I gonna get it?"

00:52:28 ◼   ► And at the time I said, "I'll see what the reviews say,

00:52:31 ◼   ► "but I don't think it would be a better enough battery

00:52:34 ◼   ► "or better enough performance to make it worth it."

00:52:37 ◼   ► And then all the early reviews were so glowing and positive,

00:52:40 ◼   ► especially on those two fronts, that,

00:52:43 ◼   ► and actually what made me get it was one of the reviews

00:52:47 ◼   ► that said, the little nitpicky thing I said earlier,

00:52:48 ◼   ► where like, you can keep navigating menus

00:52:51 ◼   ► while it's writing to the card.

00:52:52 ◼   ► As soon as I read that, I'm like, oh my god,

00:52:54 ◼   ► huge difference buying it.

00:52:56 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:52:57 ◼   ► That was it.

00:52:58 ◼   ► - Have you tried the insane frame rate

00:53:01 ◼   ► for the burst photos on anything?

00:53:04 ◼   ► - No, I don't usually do high-speed bursts.

00:53:06 ◼   ► I think it can go up to like 10 frames a second,

00:53:08 ◼   ► something like that.

00:53:09 ◼   ► - It goes way higher than you ever really want it to.

00:53:12 ◼   ► Like the iPhone goes pretty insanely high too,

00:53:14 ◼   ► but like, you know, I do lots of burst photos,

00:53:15 ◼   ► I do action photos on like, you know,

00:53:18 ◼   ► the ocean or vacation.

00:53:19 ◼   ► I don't think I've ever gone above the mid setting,

00:53:22 ◼   ► which is like half of the rate that my camera's able to do.

00:53:25 ◼   ► And I think this one is able to go,

00:53:27 ◼   ► you practically take like slow-mo movies

00:53:30 ◼   ► with the number of frames per second.

00:53:31 ◼   ► It's pretty ridiculous.

00:53:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:53:33 ◼   ► - Then unlike the iPhone, you don't have like,

00:53:35 ◼   ► keep only one frame from the burst,

00:53:36 ◼   ► you have to sort through all 900 photos you just took

00:53:39 ◼   ► by holding down the shutter button for three seconds.

00:53:41 ◼   ► - And every one of them is like a 45 megabyte raw file

00:53:44 ◼   ► that takes light room like 10 seconds to import.

00:53:47 ◼   ► - Burst photos especially at the highest speed,

00:53:50 ◼   ► it's like a stress test for your ability

00:53:55 ◼   ► to do pics from your own photos, right?

00:53:58 ◼   ► 'Cause you have to go through like a hundred pictures,

00:54:01 ◼   ► all of which are nearly identical to each other

00:54:03 ◼   ► and decide do I want this one or that one,

00:54:04 ◼   ► This one or that one?

00:54:05 ◼   ► This one or that one?

00:54:06 ◼   ► This one, you're like, they're practically identical.

00:54:08 ◼   ► They're two pixels different.

00:54:09 ◼   ► Which one do I delete?

00:54:10 ◼   ► It's lots of fun.

00:54:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have rarely found bursts worthwhile.

00:54:14 ◼   ► I used to, back when I was,

00:54:16 ◼   ► when I was earlier in my photography hobby,

00:54:18 ◼   ► like five, 10 years ago,

00:54:20 ◼   ► I kept it in continuous shooting mode

00:54:23 ◼   ► and would frequently shoot a three or four picture burst

00:54:25 ◼   ► for whatever I was getting,

00:54:26 ◼   ► and that would be over about a second.

00:54:29 ◼   ► But over time, first of all,

00:54:32 ◼   ► I just kinda got better at timing it,

00:54:34 ◼   ► and so I didn't need the burst as much.

00:54:36 ◼   ► But also I realized like I was never,

00:54:38 ◼   ► it was never worth the time or the storage overhead

00:54:42 ◼   ► or the processing overhead.

00:54:43 ◼   ► I wasn't getting enough out of it.

00:54:45 ◼   ► So I just switched to single shot most of the time

00:54:48 ◼   ► and it's totally fine.

00:54:50 ◼   ► - Well for sports you still need the burst.

00:54:51 ◼   ► Like that's what I'm using.

00:54:52 ◼   ► If people are in motion playing a sport or running

00:54:55 ◼   ► or jumping in the ocean waves, burst is the way to go

00:54:58 ◼   ► 'cause there's just no other way to get

00:54:59 ◼   ► the shot that you want.

00:55:00 ◼   ► But yeah, burst is annoying as anything for situations

00:55:03 ◼   ► people are not performing a sport. Because you end up with three pictures of everybody.

00:55:07 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. Burst makes a lot of sense for pros or people shooting soccer or pros shooting

00:55:13 ◼   ► soccer. But yeah, my family is not that high motion.

00:55:17 ◼   ► I would recommend that even if people are playing badminton in the backyard at a family

00:55:22 ◼   ► gathering, try it. Burst for those things. For people doing sports, if they're performing

00:55:26 ◼   ► a motion, like they're swatting at the little birdie thing or they're hitting a volleyball

00:55:30 ◼   ► or blocking a jump shot, even just a burst of three or four, you know, usually all of

00:55:37 ◼   ► them are crap, but every once in a while, one of them is good and you realize if I had

00:55:40 ◼   ► taken a single shot, the odds of me getting that one weren't good.

00:55:43 ◼   ► So when people are in motion in very bright sunlight, obviously, you know, you use that

00:55:48 ◼   ► sport preset on your Sony camera that, you know, cranks down the shutter speed and turn

00:55:54 ◼   ► on burst mode, not on the high setting because then you'll get like every hair moving on

00:55:58 ◼   ► their body, but just on the mid or low setting to get a couple of choices. That's how I've

00:56:04 ◼   ► gotten most of my good ocean pictures, because you're waist deep in the ocean and waves are

00:56:09 ◼   ► crashing on people, you need a couple, you need a burst to get anything good out of that.

00:56:14 ◼   ► And very often, both ends of the burst are garbage, so you're like, "Boy, it's a good

00:56:17 ◼   ► thing. It's a good thing I got that middle part there." If I had just put the shutter

00:56:20 ◼   ► down when I thought it was happening, got one picture, odds of it being good are very

00:56:23 ◼   ► small.

00:56:24 ◼   ► nostalgia null in the chat suggest,

00:56:26 ◼   ► maybe you could binary search through the burst.

00:56:29 ◼   ► So all right, start in the middle.

00:56:30 ◼   ► - Solid.

00:56:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:32 ◼   ► - Does what I want before or after this?

00:56:33 ◼   ► - The problem is the judgment.

00:56:35 ◼   ► The problem is the judgment, the judgment call.

00:56:37 ◼   ► Like you will get down to sort of more or less

00:56:39 ◼   ► the portion of the pose that you want,

00:56:41 ◼   ► but then you will have five pictures to choose from

00:56:43 ◼   ► that if you had to put them side by side,

00:56:45 ◼   ► you'd be hard pressed to say,

00:56:46 ◼   ► are these the same picture or are they different?

00:56:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think if you're getting that little variation,

00:56:50 ◼   ► then either your frame rate is too high

00:56:52 ◼   ► or you don't need to be shooting bursts.

00:56:54 ◼   ► - That's why I said don't go above mid,

00:56:55 ◼   ► 'cause these things, the frame rate, I forget what it is.

00:56:57 ◼   ► I think it's, is it like 40 or 60?

00:57:01 ◼   ► I don't know, it might be faster than--

00:57:02 ◼   ► - The A9 is the sport-oriented model.

00:57:05 ◼   ► That one I think can go faster.

00:57:07 ◼   ► I think the A7R III is either like seven

00:57:09 ◼   ► or 10 frames a second, but the A9 I think might be 15 or 20.

00:57:13 ◼   ► - No, it's gotta be faster than that.

00:57:14 ◼   ► Mine is faster than that.

00:57:15 ◼   ► Is it because the giant sensor can't get the data

00:57:17 ◼   ► onto the card fast enough?

00:57:18 ◼   ► - I believe it can't get the data

00:57:19 ◼   ► off the sensor fast enough.

00:57:21 ◼   ► I think that's usually the limitation.

00:57:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, now mine is faster than that

00:57:24 ◼   ► 'cause I have the smaller sensor.

00:57:26 ◼   ► - We're not talking about video mode,

00:57:27 ◼   ► we're talking about photos.

00:57:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, camera, just plain old photos.

00:57:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, the A9 is up to 20 frames a second.

00:57:33 ◼   ► - Anyway, 10 pictures for one second

00:57:35 ◼   ► goes by faster than you think.

00:57:37 ◼   ► - It is 10, yeah, so A7R III is 10, A9 is 20.

00:57:40 ◼   ► - Speaking of video, have you shot any video with it

00:57:43 ◼   ► or are you still just iPhone only for that?

00:57:44 ◼   ► - I'm just iPhone only for that.

00:57:46 ◼   ► I really, I don't shoot, and I know this is like,

00:57:49 ◼   ► it's weird, high-end cameras like this

00:57:50 ◼   ► have themselves in a weird market

00:57:52 ◼   ► where basically around the time of the Canon 5D Mark II,

00:57:57 ◼   ► which came out in 2008,

00:58:00 ◼   ► the SLR market shifted dramatically

00:58:03 ◼   ► 'cause the Mark II was the first widely available SLR

00:58:06 ◼   ► that could shoot really good video.

00:58:09 ◼   ► And so good that it was actually better

00:58:11 ◼   ► than a lot of pro video cameras at the time.

00:58:14 ◼   ► And that trend has continued,

00:58:16 ◼   ► and while pro video cameras now are now better

00:58:20 ◼   ► in certain ways and certain things,

00:58:22 ◼   ► a lot of video is shot on SLRs

00:58:25 ◼   ► and high-end mirrorless cameras.

00:58:26 ◼   ► A lot of pro-level video is shot using these cameras.

00:58:30 ◼   ► So video dictates a lot of their feature set

00:58:33 ◼   ► because that's the people who are actually

00:58:34 ◼   ► buying these things.

00:58:35 ◼   ► So it's funny, it's hard to find good reviews

00:58:38 ◼   ► of these cameras if you're not into video

00:58:40 ◼   ► because so many of the reviews focus so heavily on videos

00:58:42 ◼   ► 'cause that's what so many of the buyers are,

00:58:44 ◼   ► that's what so many of the features are for,

00:58:45 ◼   ► that's what so many of the changes are every year.

00:58:47 ◼   ► I really don't shoot video with fancy cameras very often.

00:58:51 ◼   ► and it's not because it's not good.

00:58:53 ◼   ► It looks great when you do it.

00:58:55 ◼   ► It's because I'm not a good enough videographer to do it.

00:58:58 ◼   ► And if I just shoot video with my iPhone,

00:59:00 ◼   ► it turns out way better.

00:59:02 ◼   ► 'Cause the iPhone does a way better job at auto-focus,

00:59:05 ◼   ► and also the iPhone tends to be way better at,

00:59:08 ◼   ► oh, and also it has built-in stabilization, of course,

00:59:09 ◼   ► but also the iPhone is way better at audio.

00:59:12 ◼   ► Like, whatever it does with its built-in mics

00:59:16 ◼   ► and the noise cancellation that it does between them,

00:59:19 ◼   ► it is way better at its built-in audio

00:59:23 ◼   ► than the crappy little built-in mics that are on SLRs.

00:59:26 ◼   ► And granted, pro video people don't use the built-in mics,

00:59:29 ◼   ► or at least they shouldn't.

00:59:30 ◼   ► So, you know, there's not much of a market demand

00:59:32 ◼   ► for the camera makers to make their camera built-in mics

00:59:34 ◼   ► awesome, but if you're just a casual person shooting

00:59:37 ◼   ► with what you have in your hand

00:59:39 ◼   ► without any external equipment,

00:59:40 ◼   ► the iPhone will shoot way better video

00:59:43 ◼   ► and way better audio along with it

00:59:45 ◼   ► than most of these cameras will do, you know,

00:59:48 ◼   ► in a layman's hands.

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01:01:58 ◼   ► - So, programming note.

01:02:02 ◼   ► - Baby?

01:02:03 ◼   ► - No, but I think we should choose wisely.

01:02:06 ◼   ► So, I have ARM Windows PCs.

01:02:08 ◼   ► - We have different goals here.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Your goal is to end the show early.

01:02:13 ◼   ► My goal is to have you have to leave the show to have a baby.

01:02:17 ◼   ► I think that would be amazing.

01:02:18 ◼   ► We're going to avoid that.

01:02:19 ◼   ► Well, we just jump to Ask ATP immediately and then we'll check back in and see how

01:02:23 ◼   ► we're doing.

01:02:24 ◼   ► All right.

01:02:25 ◼   ► Then you'll just restitch it all in post?

01:02:27 ◼   ► No, we'll just have a longer aftershow.

01:02:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:29 ◼   ► All right.

01:02:30 ◼   ► I'm okay with that.

01:02:31 ◼   ► We'll just keep going on the aftershow until that baby comes, damn it.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:35 ◼   ► So, Casey, tell us more about your Jeep Wrangler ambitions.

01:02:37 ◼   ► Well, since you've asked.

01:02:40 ◼   ► I saw a broken down Wrangler on a tow truck bed the other day, I thought of you.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Aw, thanks buddy.

01:02:44 ◼   ► I saw a Wrangler with purple, I assume LED rings on the headlights during the day.

01:02:51 ◼   ► So it was like during the day, but there was two purple circles looking at me.

01:02:54 ◼   ► I think that's now stock on the newer ones.

01:02:58 ◼   ► Not purple, of course, but the new ones I think do have like angel eye style.

01:03:01 ◼   ► I might be wrong about that, so double check my work on that.

01:03:05 ◼   ► But I think that might be stock now.

01:03:07 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:03:08 ◼   ► - I love that like the Jeep Wrangler,

01:03:11 ◼   ► if you just look in like,

01:03:12 ◼   ► not only how they can be configured stock,

01:03:14 ◼   ► but like just look at what people do to them

01:03:16 ◼   ► after the fact and it's just a wonderful tour

01:03:20 ◼   ► of bad decisions and bad designs and tackiness

01:03:23 ◼   ► and horribleness. - Oh stop, it's not that bad.

01:03:25 ◼   ► It's just it's a different purpose.

01:03:26 ◼   ► The purpose isn't to be luxurious and fancy,

01:03:29 ◼   ► the purpose is to break (beep)

01:03:31 ◼   ► hopefully not itself, but whatever.

01:03:33 ◼   ► - Well, unfortunately that doesn't happen.

01:03:35 ◼   ► Unfortunately it breaks itself quite often.

01:03:38 ◼   ► It occurred to me, I think it was earlier today, that I don't want the Accord because

01:03:45 ◼   ► you can't get any of the nice fancy bits with the one I would get.

01:03:49 ◼   ► I may or may not want the Wrangler because it has, obviously, as much as I'm trying to

01:03:53 ◼   ► defend it, the whole world of its own problems.

01:03:56 ◼   ► I don't want to go far because I want a sunroof.

01:03:59 ◼   ► I really friggin' love sunroofs.

01:04:02 ◼   ► You can think I'm weird, you can think I'm crazy.

01:04:04 ◼   ► I like a sunroof.

01:04:05 ◼   ► It makes me happy.

01:04:06 ◼   ► I'm with you on that.

01:04:07 ◼   ► - They're awesome.

01:04:08 ◼   ► - Right, in the Gulf R, you can't get it with the sunroof.

01:04:11 ◼   ► So what do I, I'm out of options.

01:04:12 ◼   ► I either go BMW and hate myself slash maybe get a divorce,

01:04:16 ◼   ► or I get like a GTI, which is wrong wheel drive

01:04:20 ◼   ► and not as fast, and then I'll hate myself

01:04:21 ◼   ► for not having the Gulf R.

01:04:22 ◼   ► - No, no, no.

01:04:23 ◼   ► - What do you do?

01:04:24 ◼   ► What do you do?

01:04:25 ◼   ► That's a rhetorical question.

01:04:26 ◼   ► - Keep fixing your car until something better comes along.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - That's probably the answer,

01:04:29 ◼   ► but at that point I'm gonna run out of--

01:04:30 ◼   ► - What is my Mac Pro technique?

01:04:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's true.

01:04:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:04:34 ◼   ► - It's like 10 years later.

01:04:34 ◼   ► - That's a very good point.

01:04:35 ◼   ► - That's a very, very good point.

01:04:37 ◼   ► Oh man, that's funny.

01:04:39 ◼   ► - Well, or, alternately, keep fixing your car

01:04:41 ◼   ► until you are, like, consulting millionaire

01:04:43 ◼   ► and you can buy Julia.

01:04:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the answer.

01:04:47 ◼   ► Actually, that doesn't have sunroof either.

01:04:48 ◼   ► The quadra-fiber doesn't anyway.

01:04:50 ◼   ► I know.

01:04:51 ◼   ► I mean, in a week it didn't bother me.

01:04:52 ◼   ► - Sunroof stink.

01:04:53 ◼   ► I'm Andy Sunroof.

01:04:54 ◼   ► - Well, 'cause you're tall and you hate things.

01:04:56 ◼   ► - It's all right.

01:04:57 ◼   ► There's nothing worse than having your hair

01:04:58 ◼   ► touch the headliner.

01:04:59 ◼   ► Nothing worse.

01:05:00 ◼   ► - That is the best summary of your perspective on sunroofs,

01:05:05 ◼   ► you're tall and you hate things. I know it's true have you I'm gonna say Marco

01:05:09 ◼   ► hasn't for various reasons but Casey have you ever had your hair touch the

01:05:13 ◼   ► headliner in a car? Oh it's infuriating but I have a couple of friends I guess

01:05:17 ◼   ► this one in particular that I'm thinking of that is about the same height as you

01:05:20 ◼   ► so I am like six foot give or take an inch depending on the day and you're

01:05:25 ◼   ► what six two is that right? Yeah but I got more neck. More of my height is above the belt line.

01:05:32 ◼   ► line. Oh man, John I love you. But anyway, the point I'm driving at is that he hates

01:05:41 ◼   ► sunroofs because sunroofs, sunroofs, whatever, because he's constantly complaining and moaning

01:05:46 ◼   ► about his head hitting the headliner because apparently it's worse when you have a sunroof.

01:05:50 ◼   ► I don't really understand that since there's a sunroof. Yeah, it intrudes into the interior

01:05:53 ◼   ► space. That's why I never buy cars with sunroofs because it makes, it makes, most cars fit

01:05:57 ◼   ► me with no sunroof. As soon as you put the sunroof in, head hits the headliner almost

01:06:01 ◼   ► no matter how low you can make the seat go.

01:06:03 ◼   ► It's even true in Hondas.

01:06:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, because they don't make the car,

01:06:06 ◼   ► like the sunroof is thicker,

01:06:07 ◼   ► and they don't make the car taller,

01:06:09 ◼   ► they just make it intrude into the interior space.

01:06:11 ◼   ► - And they don't make the seats go down lower either.

01:06:13 ◼   ► Like they could do that, they could say,

01:06:15 ◼   ► "Okay, on the sunroof models,

01:06:16 ◼   ► "the seat goes down an extra two inches," but they don't.

01:06:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, the problems of tall people.

01:06:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I thought I had the poofier hair

01:06:21 ◼   ► of the two of us, but you know, whatever.

01:06:24 ◼   ► - I used to have the poofy hair in my youth.

01:06:25 ◼   ► - See, and this is only a problem

01:06:28 ◼   ► if you are tall and have tall hair.

01:06:31 ◼   ► You don't need to have tall hair. If your physical skull hits the headliner, which can happen depending on the car,

01:06:36 ◼   ► it doesn't matter what your hairstyle is.

01:06:38 ◼   ► But it's almost worse when your skull doesn't hit it, but your hair just barely hits it because it gets all staticky and it pulls.

01:06:44 ◼   ► It's the worst. It's the worst.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I really feel bad for you guys. That sounds awful.

01:06:47 ◼   ► You should. You should. I feel bad for your head sunburn and you should feel bad for my tickly hair headliner thing.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Savage.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Wow, this is getting aggressive.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Alright, let's tone it down.

01:06:59 ◼   ► I do always have to wear a hat in the summertime.

01:07:02 ◼   ► It's funny, I actually can't use my sunroof

01:07:04 ◼   ► in the summertime usually because I have to wear a hat

01:07:07 ◼   ► and then when I do, it blows off like if it's windy.

01:07:10 ◼   ► So usually I get most of my sunroofing done

01:07:13 ◼   ► in the off season in like the fall, winter, and spring

01:07:17 ◼   ► when I can have it hat free and hopefully not get

01:07:20 ◼   ► a sunburn on my head in January.

01:07:22 ◼   ► - That's why Casey wants a Wrangler, no roof.

01:07:24 ◼   ► - Right, I'm saying.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Although it'll totally (beep) up my hair every time

01:07:28 ◼   ► So then I have a whole new world of problems.

01:07:30 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, you're too vain for a wrangler, nevermind.

01:07:32 ◼   ► - I know, I'm saying.

01:07:34 ◼   ► And by the way, Tim, underscore, underscore, underscore,

01:07:37 ◼   ► I have never driven a GTI,

01:07:38 ◼   ► and everyone I know who has ever had,

01:07:41 ◼   ► that's the key phrase here, had a GTI,

01:07:44 ◼   ► always says that I'm crazy to want the Golf R,

01:07:47 ◼   ► the GTI is better.

01:07:47 ◼   ► But I do know that I (beep) hate front wheel drive

01:07:52 ◼   ► with all of my being.

01:07:53 ◼   ► And so that is one major reason

01:07:56 ◼   ► why I suspect I would not like a GTI.

01:07:58 ◼   ► I should try it, and I probably will try it

01:08:00 ◼   ► if the time ever comes, but I hate front wheel drive.

01:08:04 ◼   ► And I'm assuming, and I'm swearing like a sailor

01:08:06 ◼   ► 'cause I'm assuming none of this is making the show.

01:08:08 ◼   ► - You used to hate automatics too,

01:08:10 ◼   ► and then you go to Julia.

01:08:11 ◼   ► - Touché, that's a fair point.

01:08:13 ◼   ► - I mean honestly, you're really getting yourself

01:08:16 ◼   ► into a BMW, like with more-- - I know.

01:08:19 ◼   ► - But look, it's not a big deal.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Just no going into it, in the same way,

01:08:25 ◼   ► when you buy an Apple product,

01:08:28 ◼   ► We all love Apple products, but we also know that,

01:08:32 ◼   ► okay, in two years, they're gonna release something

01:08:36 ◼   ► that makes this look ancient.

01:08:38 ◼   ► And if it's an iOS product in two years,

01:08:41 ◼   ► it's gonna be a lot slower than when I bought it,

01:08:43 ◼   ► because the new OS will be slower on this hardware.

01:08:46 ◼   ► You just kinda know that this is going to degrade

01:08:52 ◼   ► in my satisfaction or in actual usage

01:08:55 ◼   ► in certain ways over time.

01:08:57 ◼   ► You know that going into it, and so you plan for that.

01:09:00 ◼   ► You do what you can to complain about it on a podcast,

01:09:03 ◼   ► but for the most part, you're kind of stuck with it.

01:09:06 ◼   ► And so you deal with it because it's better

01:09:08 ◼   ► than buying Windows, right?

01:09:09 ◼   ► And so in this case, if all the attributes of a car

01:09:14 ◼   ► that you actually like a lot seem to really pretty much

01:09:20 ◼   ► only be available on BMWs, it's not that ridiculous

01:09:24 ◼   ► for you to buy another BMW, even though your current one

01:09:26 ◼   ► has given you lots of service trouble,

01:09:27 ◼   ► just no going into it, make the decision accordingly

01:09:31 ◼   ► that this is going to cost money in repairs

01:09:33 ◼   ► if I have to repair it.

01:09:34 ◼   ► So you can then either, you can make different decisions

01:09:37 ◼   ► about things like how much do you spend on it

01:09:39 ◼   ► in the first place, maybe do you save a budget

01:09:41 ◼   ► for repairs later, or do you lease something

01:09:44 ◼   ► or finance something under warranty

01:09:46 ◼   ► and then get rid of it or sell it when it's out of warranty.

01:09:49 ◼   ► You can make different decisions.

01:09:51 ◼   ► It doesn't mean you need to get something

01:09:54 ◼   ► that is severely lacking in areas you care about,

01:09:58 ◼   ► just to spite this company that couldn't give less

01:10:00 ◼   ► of a damn about you?

01:10:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's fair.

01:10:03 ◼   ► I don't know, and part of the reason why the Volkswagen

01:10:08 ◼   ► line or train of thought is appealing to me

01:10:10 ◼   ► is because they're now offering six-year warranties,

01:10:12 ◼   ► as far as I'm aware, anyway,

01:10:13 ◼   ► they're offering six-year warranties on all their cars,

01:10:16 ◼   ► and I tend to own a car for between six and 10 years,

01:10:19 ◼   ► so there is something appealing to me in having a car

01:10:23 ◼   ► that is warrantied for that long.

01:10:24 ◼   ► And granted, I could get an extended warranty for,

01:10:27 ◼   ► I could have gotten an extended warranty for my car.

01:10:29 ◼   ► - Oh, don't get those.

01:10:30 ◼   ► Those are pains in the, no, those are rip-offs.

01:10:31 ◼   ► - Right, and that's the thing, is that even if,

01:10:34 ◼   ► you know, like a buddy of mine who has a 2011 335,

01:10:38 ◼   ► he got an extended warranty for his

01:10:40 ◼   ► and had some sort of,

01:10:42 ◼   ► actually similar problem to my valvetrain,

01:10:44 ◼   ► although I guess it was just starting to go

01:10:46 ◼   ► and then fixed itself or something.

01:10:47 ◼   ► I forget the details.

01:10:48 ◼   ► I know that sounds funny, just go with it.

01:10:50 ◼   ► So anyway, he asked the extended warranty people,

01:10:53 ◼   ► "Hey, can I go ahead and get this repaired?"

01:10:55 ◼   ► And they were like, "Well, if the car is not

01:10:56 ◼   ► "actively exhibiting the problem, then no."

01:10:59 ◼   ► Despite the fact that the BMW tech was like,

01:11:00 ◼   ► "Hey, we saw that this was a code that was thrown,

01:11:04 ◼   ► "so presumably it didn't do that for funsies."

01:11:07 ◼   ► Yeah, so it's insurance all over again, right?

01:11:10 ◼   ► It's just a frickin' nightmare.

01:11:12 ◼   ► But anyway, you're cheating and using my weakness

01:11:15 ◼   ► to keep me on the microphone right now

01:11:17 ◼   ► and talking about cars.

01:11:19 ◼   ► - Totally accidental.

01:11:21 ◼   ► - What we should do is we should do some Ask ATP

01:11:23 ◼   ► and Clint asks, do you think Apple--

01:11:25 ◼   ► - So do you think if you went BMW,

01:11:26 ◼   ► do you think it would be-- - Would you stop it?

01:11:27 ◼   ► Stop it.

01:11:27 ◼   ► - Do you think it would be M3, M2, or M235i?

01:11:31 ◼   ► - None of the above because I can't afford it.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Because you're making me quit my job.

01:11:35 ◼   ► - The 235 line is really not that ridiculous.

01:11:38 ◼   ► - Well, I can't put any kids in it then.

01:11:40 ◼   ► - That's true.

01:11:41 ◼   ► By the way--

01:11:41 ◼   ► - Why am I letting myself get into this?

01:11:42 ◼   ► Stop, stop, we need to do Ask ATP.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - Have you given any more thought to quitting your job?

01:11:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:48 ◼   ► I've given an unreasonable amount of thought to that.

01:11:51 ◼   ► Stop.

01:11:52 ◼   ► Why am I allowing this?

01:11:53 ◼   ► How many offers have you gotten?

01:11:56 ◼   ► Just ballpark.

01:11:57 ◼   ► I have gotten probably, I would say less than ten.

01:12:01 ◼   ► Listeners, you know what to do.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Keep going.

01:12:04 ◼   ► Keep going.

01:12:05 ◼   ► Well, the problem is, to be honest, I've barely explored those because I've been so swamped

01:12:09 ◼   ► with pre-baby insanity that I probably seem like the most reluctant independent worker

01:12:14 ◼   ► ever because I have a couple emails that I need to reply to.

01:12:17 ◼   ► I just haven't had the time yet.

01:12:20 ◼   ► But anyway, we'll see what happens with that.

01:12:22 ◼   ► But we should talk about Ask ATP, where Clint asks,

01:12:25 ◼   ► "Do you think Apple will delay the Mac Pro?"

01:12:27 ◼   ► - Why do you have to put kids in your tiny car?

01:12:29 ◼   ► You have an XC90.

01:12:31 ◼   ► You could get a car that could fit in the XC90.

01:12:35 ◼   ► - That is true, however--

01:12:37 ◼   ► - The M235 is a pretty small car,

01:12:40 ◼   ► and a pretty good one by other reviews, right?

01:12:42 ◼   ► Haven't you driven one?

01:12:44 ◼   ► - Yes, I did drive a several-year-old one now.

01:12:46 ◼   ► I was like three or four years old.

01:12:48 ◼   ► Well, if it was still around today,

01:12:50 ◼   ► the guy who owned it has since unloaded it

01:12:53 ◼   ► for basically my car, actually.

01:12:54 ◼   ► But at the time, it was maybe two years old

01:12:57 ◼   ► and it was magnificent.

01:12:58 ◼   ► But-- - Bingo.

01:12:59 ◼   ► - Among other things-- - Used M235.

01:13:01 ◼   ► - That's a good answer.

01:13:03 ◼   ► But the problem with that is, A, I'd want the M2.

01:13:07 ◼   ► B, those are impossible to find

01:13:09 ◼   ► and slightly unaffordable.

01:13:10 ◼   ► And C, or three, I don't remember which one I was going for.

01:13:13 ◼   ► I do a preschool run with Declan

01:13:15 ◼   ► and I would like to be able to take both kids in the car

01:13:20 ◼   ► and not leave Aaron stranded,

01:13:21 ◼   ► because although Aaron is capable of driving a stick,

01:13:23 ◼   ► Aaron doesn't think Aaron's capable of driving a stick,

01:13:25 ◼   ► which means Aaron can't drive a stick.

01:13:27 ◼   ► So it's a bad situation.

01:13:30 ◼   ► But can we please do Ask ATP?

01:13:31 ◼   ► I need to start ignoring the car talk,

01:13:34 ◼   ► because you know it's my weakness.

01:13:35 ◼   ► - Is the M2 available with a DCT?

01:13:37 ◼   ► - So, Clint asks--

01:13:39 ◼   ► - Let me see, 'cause really a DCT is so close to a stick.

01:13:40 ◼   ► - Do you think Apple will delay the Mac Pro?

01:13:42 ◼   ► John, would you tell me, if you don't mind,

01:13:44 ◼   ► Do you think Apple will delay the micro release?

01:13:45 ◼   ► - Car and Driver test a BMW M2 DCT,

01:13:48 ◼   ► so obviously it exists.

01:13:49 ◼   ► Let's see, that looks pretty nice.

01:13:50 ◼   ► And Aaron could drive a DCT.

01:13:51 ◼   ► - We can do car stuff after AskATP, Marco.

01:13:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:13:56 ◼   ► Don't worry, we can string them along later.

01:13:58 ◼   ► We just gotta get through this.

01:13:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:14:01 ◼   ► - Just work with me, people, work with me.

01:14:05 ◼   ► Oh, good luck editing this one.

01:14:07 ◼   ► - We are sponsored this week by Betterment.

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01:15:33 ◼   ► Betterment, rethink what your money can do.

01:15:35 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:15:38 ◼   ► - So, Clint asks, "Do you think Apple will delay

01:15:42 ◼   ► "the Mac Pro release until a new CPU architecture

01:15:44 ◼   ► "has been designed?"

01:15:46 ◼   ► I personally don't think that'll be the case

01:15:49 ◼   ► unless Intel says, "Hey, it's already designed

01:15:52 ◼   ► "and it's eminent and we'll have it out in a month."

01:15:54 ◼   ► Which will never happen, so no, I don't think so.

01:15:56 ◼   ► Marco, what do you think?

01:15:57 ◼   ► - Oh man, Sam the Geek just found a used listing

01:15:59 ◼   ► for a white M2.

01:16:01 ◼   ► This is your car.

01:16:03 ◼   ► This is perfect.

01:16:04 ◼   ► Concentrate, Marco.

01:16:06 ◼   ► It's a Mac Pro question.

01:16:07 ◼   ► You should be excited about this one.

01:16:09 ◼   ► I'll answer it because Marco's not into it.

01:16:12 ◼   ► Apple better not wait, because I think it's actually

01:16:14 ◼   ► going to be longer than people think before there

01:16:17 ◼   ► is a literal new CPU architecture that

01:16:19 ◼   ► works around this issue.

01:16:20 ◼   ► Because this issue is deeply embedded

01:16:22 ◼   ► into the way CPUs have been designed for many, many years.

01:16:26 ◼   ► And unless Intel started on this project four years ago,

01:16:29 ◼   ► a new CPU that solves this problem is not coming anytime soon.

01:16:34 ◼   ► But more importantly, I don't want Apple to delay anything.

01:16:39 ◼   ► They're going to continue to sell iMac Pros and all their other computers with these CPUs

01:16:43 ◼   ► that are vulnerable to this with OS-level workarounds, and that's what they're going

01:16:46 ◼   ► to do with the Mac Pro 2.

01:16:47 ◼   ► So no, no delay.

01:16:48 ◼   ► No delay for this anyway.

01:16:50 ◼   ► You know, last thing you want is to give Apple a reason to delay the Mac Pro.

01:16:53 ◼   ► Please don't give them reasons.

01:16:56 ◼   ► Even I would agree with that.

01:16:57 ◼   ► And that's not a thread on the Spectre meltdown stuff,

01:17:00 ◼   ► like exactly how long the timelines are

01:17:03 ◼   ► for a new architecture.

01:17:04 ◼   ► If you start today, oh, we haven't been doing anything

01:17:07 ◼   ► to mitigate this as yet, you know, this unknown,

01:17:11 ◼   ► you know, we didn't know about Spectre meltdown

01:17:12 ◼   ► until, you know, a couple of weeks ago or whatever.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Let's start today on a new architecture.

01:17:19 ◼   ► Let's take whatever project we've been working on

01:17:21 ◼   ► and modify it to account for this.

01:17:23 ◼   ► The timelines are long.

01:17:25 ◼   ► It's not like, well, give us a couple of months

01:17:26 ◼   ► and will have a new CPU out.

01:17:28 ◼   ► If you look at how long it takes to go from idea

01:17:31 ◼   ► to actual design to, you know, laying out,

01:17:35 ◼   ► I don't know if they still call it taping out,

01:17:37 ◼   ► to fabbing and verifying it, like those timelines are long.

01:17:41 ◼   ► So don't hold your breath for brand new CPU architectures

01:17:45 ◼   ► that completely eliminate this category of error.

01:17:48 ◼   ► There could be smaller fixes coming to minor revisions

01:17:51 ◼   ► of existing chips that help either help mitigate it

01:17:55 ◼   ► or help make it so that the OS level workarounds

01:17:57 ◼   ► don't have as big of a performance hit.

01:18:00 ◼   ► That could happen in the near term if they scramble.

01:18:02 ◼   ► But it's such a big change to actually make this category

01:18:05 ◼   ► of bug not exist and also maintain performance

01:18:08 ◼   ► that I think it's gonna be years.

01:18:12 ◼   ► - Also keep in mind that the Mac Pro and iMac Pro

01:18:15 ◼   ► use Xeon chips.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Xeons are the last chips in Intel's lineup

01:18:19 ◼   ► to get new microarchitectures.

01:18:21 ◼   ► So whenever they fix it in their consumer chips,

01:18:23 ◼   ► you're not gonna see it in any kind of Xeon workstation

01:18:26 ◼   ► for another year and a half to three years after that.

01:18:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, even I don't want this to be delayed.

01:18:33 ◼   ► And, God, I just need to get through the Mac Pro discussion.

01:18:37 ◼   ► And if I can get through the forthcoming Mac Pro discussion,

01:18:40 ◼   ► like in future episodes, whenever it's announced,

01:18:42 ◼   ► then I think the show may be able to last forever.

01:18:44 ◼   ► 'Cause if I can make it through that, I'll be good.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Bryson asks, "John, I heard you say that HiCR--"

01:18:50 ◼   ► - You got a great message from a friend.

01:18:52 ◼   ► - That's why I was distracted for a half second.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Stop it, stop it.

01:18:56 ◼   ► - Messaging the three of us saying,

01:18:58 ◼   ► "Can someone explain RxSwift?

01:19:00 ◼   ► "It's important I know there's a cold by tomorrow morning."

01:19:02 ◼   ► Thanks.

01:19:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:05 ◼   ► Casey, I think you know something about RxSwift.

01:19:07 ◼   ► Can you help our friend out after the show?

01:19:09 ◼   ► - Stop it.

01:19:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:10 ◼   ► Maybe after the show.

01:19:12 ◼   ► Why are you using all my weaknesses against me?

01:19:14 ◼   ► Also, today I learned I have like 17 different flavors

01:19:16 ◼   ► of kryptonite.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:19:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:20 ◼   ► - So what is RxSwift?

01:19:20 ◼   ► Is that prescription Swift?

01:19:22 ◼   ► What is that?

01:19:22 ◼   ► It's prescription sweat. Oh, God, I hate all of you, including our nameless friend. Bryson asks,

01:19:29 ◼   ► "John, I heard you say about the HighCR root bug that you keep your root account enabled anyway,

01:19:35 ◼   ► so you already had a strong password. For what reason do you need the root account?

01:19:39 ◼   ► Why not just use sudo? What does root do that sudo can't?" I'm actually curious to hear this as well,

01:19:45 ◼   ► because I don't have a root account with a password. I just use sudo for everything that

01:19:49 ◼   ► I would need. And I do dive into the command line daily, but I strongly suspect I am not

01:19:56 ◼   ► doing near as much in the command line as you are, Jon. So can you address this? Like,

01:20:01 ◼   ► what's the purpose for the root account having a password, or is it just you needing a tinfoil

01:20:05 ◼   ► hat?

01:20:06 ◼   ► Jon Sorrentino It's the opposite, actually. What you're doing

01:20:08 ◼   ► is the better way to do things. Do everything as the user, only do sudo when you need to

01:20:12 ◼   ► do something with heightened privileges. But the worse habit that I do, because I'm old,

01:20:19 ◼   ► is just hang out as root all the time. You know, because I don't use package managers,

01:20:24 ◼   ► I compile and install things, you know, myself. And it's just convenient to just always be root

01:20:31 ◼   ► and have all of my source files owned by root and build everything as root. And that's incredibly

01:20:35 ◼   ► dangerous to do that. You should not do this. I do not recommend this practice, but it is my habit.

01:20:40 ◼   ► And because it's my habit and it's my computer, I do it.

01:20:44 ◼   ► And many years of experience, including accidentally destroying a couple of OSs in my youth, has

01:20:50 ◼   ► led me to be pretty careful and pretty safe, but still it's not a good idea.

01:20:54 ◼   ► You should do everything as your user and just elevate privileges briefly, only when

01:20:59 ◼   ► you need it.

01:21:00 ◼   ► >> Mark, any thoughts?

01:21:01 ◼   ► >> No.

01:21:02 ◼   ► >> About this, about this specifically, for the love of God.

01:21:06 ◼   ► >> You know, I'm thinking of traveling to Manhattan.

01:21:08 ◼   ► I want to know if you had any pizza recommendations.

01:21:10 ◼   ► (sighs)

01:21:11 ◼   ► - There's so many crypto.

01:21:12 ◼   ► - He only has one recommendation.

01:21:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, that would be quick.

01:21:16 ◼   ► John Zablieker, moving on.

01:21:17 ◼   ► Jim Andway asks, Marco,

01:21:20 ◼   ► did you ever buy a Sonos One with Alexa,

01:21:22 ◼   ► and if so, do you like it?

01:21:24 ◼   ► - No, actually, I preordered it,

01:21:27 ◼   ► and then before it came out,

01:21:28 ◼   ► when the reviews started coming out,

01:21:29 ◼   ► I canceled the preorder,

01:21:30 ◼   ► 'cause I realized I didn't care that much.

01:21:32 ◼   ► I have some Sonos stuff,

01:21:35 ◼   ► but I wouldn't say I'm super in the Sonos ecosystem.

01:21:38 ◼   ► I just find their app fairly clunky

01:21:41 ◼   ► for the things I want to do with my music.

01:21:43 ◼   ► So I almost never want to actually use it for anything.

01:21:48 ◼   ► So in the other side, I love the Amazon Echo

01:21:54 ◼   ► and use it constantly.

01:21:55 ◼   ► And it's very, very nice.

01:21:57 ◼   ► And one of the things that the Sonos one,

01:21:59 ◼   ► I think, was worse about is, you know,

01:22:03 ◼   ► Like every Echo that comes out since the original Tower

01:22:06 ◼   ► and Dot, it doesn't have the hardware volume dial

01:22:11 ◼   ► on the top, and some of the other reviews said

01:22:13 ◼   ► that they thought the microphones might be

01:22:15 ◼   ► a little bit worse, or at least that they were having

01:22:17 ◼   ► some trouble with them, and so I just decided,

01:22:19 ◼   ► you know what, I don't need this, so just cancel it.

01:22:22 ◼   ► And I'm very happy with my first generation Amazon Echo

01:22:27 ◼   ► with the big hardware volume knob and the nice microphones,

01:22:30 ◼   ► and it's totally fine and I haven't bought any of the new

01:22:34 ◼   ► Echos yet either because, same reason basically,

01:22:36 ◼   ► I'm very happy with the old one and we don't really have

01:22:39 ◼   ► any needs for any additional ones at this time.

01:22:41 ◼   ► - Alright, so how do we want to approach this?

01:22:42 ◼   ► Do you want to do Arm and keep me here for 17 hours?

01:22:46 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:22:47 ◼   ► - Or do you want to do--

01:22:48 ◼   ► - No, no, that's it, that's it, time for the After Show.

01:22:50 ◼   ► - I thought we were doing a longer After Show.

01:22:51 ◼   ► Are we talking about cars?

01:22:53 ◼   ► 'Cause that is--

01:22:53 ◼   ► - Well, don't worry, we got plenty of stuff

01:22:54 ◼   ► for the After Show.

01:22:56 ◼   ► - What do we have for the After Show?

01:22:57 ◼   ► - Thanks to our sponsors this week,

01:22:58 ◼   ► Betterment, Linode, and Fracture.

01:23:00 ◼   ► And we will see you next week.

01:23:02 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:23:05 ◼   ► ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:23:07 ◼   ► ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:23:10 ◼   ► ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:23:12 ◼   ► ♪ Oh it was accidental ♪

01:23:15 ◼   ► ♪ John didn't do any research ♪

01:23:17 ◼   ► ♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪

01:23:20 ◼   ► ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:23:23 ◼   ► ♪ Oh it was accidental ♪

01:23:26 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM

01:23:31 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:23:36 ◼   ► @CASEYLISS

01:23:40 ◼   ► So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:23:44 ◼   ► Auntie Marco Arment

01:23:47 ◼   ► S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A, Syracusa

01:23:52 ◼   ► It's accidental

01:23:55 ◼   ► They didn't mean to Accidental (Accidental)

01:24:00 ◼   ► Tech Podcast so long

01:24:04 ◼   ► My first question for Casey is, what system have you established for this podcasting recording tonight

01:24:12 ◼   ► to be notified that it's time to stop podcasting?

01:24:15 ◼   ► There are several mechanisms. There is iMessage, there is Aaron coming in the room.

01:24:23 ◼   ► Actually, I guess that's really it. It's basically either I, messenger, Aaron storms in here and says, "It's time."

01:24:27 ◼   ► Or screaming. The screaming one in the systems.

01:24:29 ◼   ► Well, I was going to say that. I was going to say that, but we are basically on opposite corners of the house.

01:24:33 ◼   ► So, yes, that would work, but it would need to be significant enough that it would wake up me and, well, not that I'm asleep.

01:24:40 ◼   ► You know what I mean? Like, it would have to get through me and it would wake up Declan.

01:24:44 ◼   ► And Aaron has a, I don't want to use the word heroic, but I can't think of a better adjective, just a heroic threshold for pain.

01:24:52 ◼   ► And so because of that, I wouldn't be surprised

01:24:57 ◼   ► if she could go through something

01:25:00 ◼   ► that would render me unconscious

01:25:02 ◼   ► and she just would have a little, eh, that hurt,

01:25:07 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:25:08 ◼   ► So anyway, I would expect that she would either

01:25:11 ◼   ► iMessage me or she would just come storming in

01:25:14 ◼   ► and say this is it.

01:25:15 ◼   ► - I was worried that she's having interactions now

01:25:17 ◼   ► and she can't bring herself to even do a text message

01:25:19 ◼   ► so she's just down at the other side of the house

01:25:21 ◼   ► bearing down, wishing you would know that it's time to stop podcasting, and here you

01:25:25 ◼   ► are continuing to podcast.

01:25:26 ◼   ► That certainly could be, but I, as of about half an hour ago, I was being kept abreast

01:25:32 ◼   ► of the situation, and I sincerely doubt that's the case.

01:25:35 ◼   ► It's time to turn the baby monitor on Mom so you can be aware of what's going on.

01:25:39 ◼   ► Actually, come to think of it, we did get an entire second baby monitor for Sprig, which

01:25:44 ◼   ► we planned, well, actually what we ended up doing was just pairing the second, the camera

01:25:49 ◼   ► from the other baby monitor to our existing baby monitor, but it was like 20 bucks more

01:25:53 ◼   ► to get the whole monitor rather than to just get an extra camera, you know what I mean,

01:25:57 ◼   ► or something like that. It was silly not to just get a whole redundant setup. So anyways,

01:26:02 ◼   ► I bring all this up to say I could hypothetically put that baby monitor camera back on Erin

01:26:07 ◼   ► and take the redundant monitor in here. But no, as far as I know, she's asleep, which

01:26:13 ◼   ► means if I sent her a text message right now, she'd probably be like, "Yep, it's coming

01:26:17 ◼   ► sooner rather than later, but we'll see.

01:26:19 ◼   ► - You think she's asleep right now?

01:26:21 ◼   ► - As far as I know, she was trying to.

01:26:24 ◼   ► - I mean, that's wise.

01:26:24 ◼   ► Honestly, you should be sleeping right now

01:26:26 ◼   ► if you're expecting this to happen.

01:26:27 ◼   ► - Yes, I know, Marco.

01:26:28 ◼   ► - Tonight or tomorrow.

01:26:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:26:30 ◼   ► - Indeed. - I can't be able

01:26:31 ◼   ► to get sleep.

01:26:32 ◼   ► Like with my first kid,

01:26:33 ◼   ► like my wife's water broke at midnight.

01:26:36 ◼   ► We were up, we were about to go to bed,

01:26:37 ◼   ► but it broke at midnight, and the doctor was like,

01:26:39 ◼   ► "You should just go to sleep and come to the hotel."

01:26:42 ◼   ► You come to the hotel, come to the hospital in the morning.

01:26:44 ◼   ► I don't think it's possible when you're having, certainly your first kid, and your wife's

01:26:50 ◼   ► water has broken, "Oh, we're just going to get some sleep now."

01:26:52 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

01:26:53 ◼   ► Everyone will just nod right off.

01:26:56 ◼   ► Nothing will be occupying our minds that keeps us from sleeping.

01:26:59 ◼   ► So we just sat there in the bed, not sleeping, for five hours, then went to the hospital.

01:27:04 ◼   ► Oh, God.

01:27:05 ◼   ► I can't imagine.

01:27:06 ◼   ► Well, the thing is, especially for the women, like, granted, I haven't done this in a little

01:27:12 ◼   ► over three years, but pretty much shortly after they arrive at the hospital and get,

01:27:17 ◼   ► you know, an IV put in and all that, they're told, or at least in our experience, Aaron

01:27:21 ◼   ► was told, you can't eat anything anymore. And so because of that, you know, everything

01:27:26 ◼   ► becomes uncomfortable. Well, not that it wasn't already uncomfortable, but everything becomes

01:27:30 ◼   ► more uncomfortable for the woman once you arrive at the hospital. So for a lot of reasons,