ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► - I still haven't bothered picking up a watch,

00:00:01 ◼   ► and at this point I'm like,

00:00:02 ◼   ► "I don't know if I should even bother."

00:00:04 ◼   ► - Why, are we too close to the next one?

00:00:06 ◼   ► - No, it's just I feel like I've missed all the excitement

00:00:09 ◼   ► at this point.

00:00:09 ◼   ► - Obviously he doesn't need it

00:00:10 ◼   ► if he's getting by without it so long.

00:00:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:00:13 ◼   ► - So two things.

00:00:14 ◼   ► Number one, it really is the big deal.

00:00:16 ◼   ► And if you care this much, you probably should buy it.

00:00:18 ◼   ► But number two, if the only reason you wanted to buy it

00:00:21 ◼   ► was to participate in the wave of newness,

00:00:24 ◼   ► then you shouldn't.

00:00:25 ◼   ► - I didn't think so.

00:00:26 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:00:27 ◼   ► But now I'm wondering, now I'm wondering,

00:00:29 ◼   ► if maybe that was it.

00:00:29 ◼   ► - That's a very bad reason to buy it

00:00:31 ◼   ► because that's very short-lived.

00:00:33 ◼   ► But if you wear the Apple Watch every day

00:00:35 ◼   ► and you really are into the Apple Watch,

00:00:37 ◼   ► you should buy it.

00:00:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that's what it boils down to,

00:00:39 ◼   ► is I think both of those,

00:00:41 ◼   ► I don't know if I'm really into the Apple Watch.

00:00:44 ◼   ► What does really even mean in this context?

00:00:46 ◼   ► But I take your point, and I think that in spirit,

00:00:49 ◼   ► what you mean is spot on.

00:00:51 ◼   ► And I probably should go find one.

00:00:53 ◼   ► I haven't looked at iStock now in a while,

00:00:55 ◼   ► and I haven't just ordered online because--

00:00:57 ◼   ► - No, literally, just walk into a store in the morning.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Like, you know, now that you don't have a job,

00:01:00 ◼   ► you can do this.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Like, just, you know, your local store will probably--

00:01:03 ◼   ► - Seriously, I'm doing my job right now.

00:01:04 ◼   ► - It probably opens at like 10 in the morning.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Just go there at 10 in the morning one day

00:01:08 ◼   ► and say, "Hey, do you have any?"

00:01:09 ◼   ► And they'll say yes or no.

00:01:10 ◼   ► And if they say no, say, "Hey, what time

00:01:11 ◼   ► "do they usually come in?"

00:01:12 ◼   ► And they'll tell you like 1 p.m.

00:01:14 ◼   ► And then so next time, show up at 1 p.m.

00:01:16 ◼   ► and say, "Hey, do you have any?"

00:01:17 ◼   ► - Right.

00:01:18 ◼   ► - I bet if you actually do that,

00:01:19 ◼   ► I bet you can get one within two days.

00:01:21 ◼   ► - You're probably right.

00:01:22 ◼   ► I have been making a habit of looking at iStock now

00:01:24 ◼   ► like a fool, although, oh, actually, this is,

00:01:29 ◼   ► I went to my friend's house.

00:01:32 ◼   ► I think we didn't talk about this on the show, did we?

00:01:34 ◼   ► 'Cause I think it was after we recorded.

00:01:37 ◼   ► The husband has a 44, the wife has a 40.

00:01:39 ◼   ► I think I gotta go 40.

00:01:42 ◼   ► I think I do.

00:01:44 ◼   ► - The 40 lifestyle is awesome.

00:01:46 ◼   ► I really enjoy the 40.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Like, it's a really good size.

00:01:50 ◼   ► It really is much better proportioned for me.

00:01:54 ◼   ► You know, so I'm curious your reason,

00:01:56 ◼   ► but my reason stands that like,

00:01:58 ◼   ► I care about how a watch looks on my wrist.

00:02:00 ◼   ► I care about the proportions of it

00:02:02 ◼   ► and I get a lot of value out of a small watch

00:02:06 ◼   ► being sufficient on me because that's graceful,

00:02:09 ◼   ► that's pleasing, it's lighter, it's smaller.

00:02:12 ◼   ► That actually is more valuable to me.

00:02:14 ◼   ► The smaller I can go and have it

00:02:15 ◼   ► still look reasonable on me.

00:02:16 ◼   ► And so I'm curious your reasoning

00:02:18 ◼   ► 'cause you're more into it than me

00:02:19 ◼   ► like as a computing platform.

00:02:22 ◼   ► So why do you say 40?

00:02:25 ◼   ► - Just from looks.

00:02:26 ◼   ► I think that the 42 looked on the upper edge

00:02:31 ◼   ► of okay on my wrist.

00:02:33 ◼   ► You know, as I look down on my wrist now,

00:02:34 ◼   ► I think I'm right on the ragged edge of it being okay.

00:02:37 ◼   ► And even though the 44 is only two millimeters,

00:02:39 ◼   ► and maybe it's all in my head, who knows,

00:02:41 ◼   ► but at the end of the day, even if it's in my head,

00:02:44 ◼   ► let's suppose it is,

00:02:46 ◼   ► I still gotta look at my own darn wrist every day, you know?

00:02:49 ◼   ► And if I look at it and go, ugh,

00:02:51 ◼   ► then that's not a good thing.

00:02:52 ◼   ► And so even though I really don't wanna get rid of my bands,

00:02:55 ◼   ► which is funny because I only have like three or four,

00:02:56 ◼   ► only one or two of which are actually decent,

00:03:00 ◼   ► it makes me kind of not sick,

00:03:01 ◼   ► but it bums me out to not being able to use the stuff

00:03:05 ◼   ► I already have on what appears to be the same device.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Like I totally understand it.

00:03:09 ◼   ► I'm not saying Apple did anything wrong here.

00:03:11 ◼   ► But that being said, you know, when I tried on,

00:03:13 ◼   ► this is my friend, Steve and Kristen,

00:03:14 ◼   ► when I tried on Steve's watch, it didn't look,

00:03:18 ◼   ► it wasn't out of bounds unacceptable if that means anything,

00:03:21 ◼   ► if that makes sense.

00:03:22 ◼   ► It's just, it didn't quite look right on my wrist.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And I thought it looked fine on his wrist.

00:03:26 ◼   ► His wrists are bigger than mine.

00:03:27 ◼   ► And so I think that makes sense.

00:03:29 ◼   ► But on my wrist, I just didn't think it looked quite right.

00:03:30 ◼   ► And I thought that the 40 did look a hint smaller

00:03:34 ◼   ► than I would have liked,

00:03:36 ◼   ► but all told, I think it looked better than the 44.

00:03:40 ◼   ► And I think part of this is just some, I don't know,

00:03:43 ◼   ► maybe latent or subconscious angst about me

00:03:48 ◼   ► not having the wrists for like a Panerai.

00:03:50 ◼   ► 'Cause one of the first times I looked at a watch

00:03:53 ◼   ► and thought, damn, that's a good looking watch,

00:03:55 ◼   ► was a friend of mine who was a watch nerd, not Marco,

00:03:58 ◼   ► surprisingly, 'cause this was years ago.

00:03:59 ◼   ► And he had a Panerai, I forget the model,

00:04:02 ◼   ► but it's one of the ones with like the weird clasp

00:04:03 ◼   ► on the right hand side around the crown,

00:04:05 ◼   ► which a lot of people hate.

00:04:06 ◼   ► And I think you're in that camp, Marco, but I love,

00:04:07 ◼   ► I just think it looks really cool.

00:04:08 ◼   ► - I prefer the ones without it, but yeah.

00:04:10 ◼   ► It's a cool look overall.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Like all of their stuff looks pretty much the same.

00:04:16 ◼   ► And it's all a pretty cool look.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Although to be fair, the Panerai look

00:04:20 ◼   ► is a statement of bigness.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Like they are big intentionally.

00:04:25 ◼   ► That is the look, that is the style they're going for.

00:04:28 ◼   ► - I'm glad you said that.

00:04:29 ◼   ► That is a perfect way to describe it.

00:04:31 ◼   ► And I always thought that, yeah, they're huge.

00:04:35 ◼   ► And we're just comical on my wrist.

00:04:38 ◼   ► Like I tried my friends on once

00:04:39 ◼   ► and it was hilariously oversized.

00:04:42 ◼   ► But I always thought to myself like,

00:04:45 ◼   ► and this was even years ago when I was just wearing

00:04:47 ◼   ► either no watch or like a crummy Timex wristwatch,

00:04:50 ◼   ► you know, that was like 25 bucks at Target, which I loved.

00:04:52 ◼   ► And it's actually a very good looking Timex.

00:04:54 ◼   ► You're probably thinking of the exact one

00:04:56 ◼   ► I'm thinking of, both Marco and listeners.

00:04:57 ◼   ► But anyways, I always thought to myself,

00:05:01 ◼   ► you know, if I ever fall upon just an absurd amount of money,

00:05:04 ◼   ► I'm gonna get myself a Panerai and just not care

00:05:05 ◼   ► about the fact that it looks ridiculously stupid.

00:05:08 ◼   ► And so I wish I had bigger wrists.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Maybe I just gotta take the Dr. Nick approach,

00:05:14 ◼   ► that's a reference, John,

00:05:15 ◼   ► and get myself a little bit bigger

00:05:17 ◼   ► so I can sport one of these watches.

00:05:19 ◼   ► But realistically, I think it's just the 40 looks better

00:05:23 ◼   ► than the 44.

00:05:24 ◼   ► And there is something to be said

00:05:25 ◼   ► for being able to share watch bands with Aaron,

00:05:28 ◼   ► which I can't imagine that would happen often,

00:05:30 ◼   ► but it would be kind of nice

00:05:31 ◼   ► to be able to share them occasionally.

00:05:33 ◼   ► So I think whenever it is I get around

00:05:36 ◼   ► to pulling the trigger on a watch,

00:05:37 ◼   ► I think I'm gonna do a 40.

00:05:39 ◼   ► And part of the reason I wanna do it in the store

00:05:42 ◼   ► is because I'm pretty sure I just wanna, you know,

00:05:44 ◼   ► trade in or whatever the term is in this context,

00:05:47 ◼   ► you know, get rid of my 44 that I'm wearing now

00:05:51 ◼   ► and get a credit against the 40 that I would be buying.

00:05:55 ◼   ► And--

00:05:56 ◼   ► - You can do that in store?

00:05:57 ◼   ► - I thought that was the case.

00:05:59 ◼   ► And what I had read after having looked

00:06:01 ◼   ► only briefly into this was that it's actually much better

00:06:05 ◼   ► to do it in store because I guess they do some amount

00:06:08 ◼   ► of the assessment in store, whereas if you send it in,

00:06:12 ◼   ► whatever third party vendor is handling that,

00:06:14 ◼   ► my understanding is they're way more aggressive

00:06:18 ◼   ► about taking credit away.

00:06:20 ◼   ► So let's say for the sake of discussion,

00:06:22 ◼   ► I think my watch was, my current watch is worth like 225 bucks

00:06:25 ◼   ► and let's just say that's true even if it isn't.

00:06:27 ◼   ► My understanding is if you go in store,

00:06:28 ◼   ► you're likely to get 200, 225 bucks for it,

00:06:30 ◼   ► whatever the case may be.

00:06:31 ◼   ► But if you send it in, you're getting like 150 at the best.

00:06:34 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:06:35 ◼   ► Because they just, oh, well, this has a tiny hairline

00:06:37 ◼   ► scratch you can only see under a microscope

00:06:38 ◼   ► that we have at our little facility

00:06:41 ◼   ► or whatever the case may be.

00:06:42 ◼   ► So I wanna do it in store

00:06:44 ◼   ► and that's why I haven't just ordered it

00:06:47 ◼   ► and so one of these days I just need to walk in

00:06:49 ◼   ► like you said and just give it a shot.

00:06:50 ◼   ► - Well, for whatever it's worth, on that topic,

00:06:53 ◼   ► since this year I learned of this system

00:06:56 ◼   ► of trading things in, I'd sent in a bunch of stuff.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Over the last couple of weeks, I have sent in

00:07:02 ◼   ► two iPhone 6s, an 8 Plus, my iPhone 10,

00:07:06 ◼   ► which is still processing because it took a while

00:07:08 ◼   ► to get there, and my Series 3 Apple Watch.

00:07:11 ◼   ► All of them so far, I don't know about the 10 yet,

00:07:13 ◼   ► but all of the other ones have given me

00:07:15 ◼   ► the exact quoted price online.

00:07:17 ◼   ► - Oh really, okay.

00:07:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:07:19 ◼   ► - So is this Apple Giveback?

00:07:20 ◼   ► Is that what I'm thinking of?

00:07:21 ◼   ► Is that the term for it?

00:07:22 ◼   ► - Yes, and it's run by, I think it's run by

00:07:24 ◼   ► two different companies, BrightStar or Fobio.

00:07:27 ◼   ► All the other ones except for the 10 went to BrightStar.

00:07:30 ◼   ► The 10 went to Fobio and it's like it went FedEx

00:07:33 ◼   ► and the others went UPS.

00:07:35 ◼   ► Like I don't know if this is actually

00:07:36 ◼   ► two different companies or just two different

00:07:38 ◼   ► receiving centers for different age devices.

00:07:40 ◼   ► But so far it's been totally fine.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I've gotten the full value of everything I sent in.

00:07:45 ◼   ► And I know I can get more if I go to eBay or something,

00:07:48 ◼   ► but I don't want to deal with that.

00:07:50 ◼   ► That's the reason why I try to sell things

00:07:51 ◼   ► on Twitter so often, 'cause dealing with eBay

00:07:53 ◼   ► is tricky and very risky.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Even as a seller it's very risky.

00:07:58 ◼   ► There's a lot of scam buyers out there.

00:08:00 ◼   ► It is worth it to me to give up some of the value

00:08:02 ◼   ► for an easy sale, and that's what these things have given me.

00:08:04 ◼   ► And so yeah, for whatever it's worth,

00:08:06 ◼   ► I have been, I've been totally fine with my experience

00:08:10 ◼   ► with this company so far, but your mileage may vary.

00:08:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I hear you.

00:08:15 ◼   ► Also we should tell everyone that we fired John

00:08:17 ◼   ► from the show, so it's just us now.

00:08:19 ◼   ► - John never gets rid of anything.

00:08:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:21 ◼   ► - I'm looking at these ugly Panerai watches.

00:08:24 ◼   ► It occurs to me, I mean this is something

00:08:26 ◼   ► that I think about, and I'm sure some other people do,

00:08:28 ◼   ► but like do you guys ever worry about wearing things

00:08:33 ◼   ► that can either injure you or increase the,

00:08:38 ◼   ► increase the severity of injuries to you?

00:08:41 ◼   ► About the little, this ridiculous guard thing

00:08:45 ◼   ► they have over the--

00:08:47 ◼   ► - Yes, it's called a crown guard.

00:08:48 ◼   ► - Whatever, right?

00:08:49 ◼   ► So if you're looking where that is,

00:08:51 ◼   ► depending on what wrist you wear it on,

00:08:52 ◼   ► like if you fall and catch yourself with your hand

00:08:55 ◼   ► and the palm of your hand goes to the ground

00:08:57 ◼   ► and so it's like at a 90 degree angle with your forearm,

00:08:59 ◼   ► that thing's gonna dig into and cut into

00:09:03 ◼   ► the top of your hand.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Like it just is, it's a sharp piece of metal

00:09:06 ◼   ► and it's a big, chunky watch.

00:09:08 ◼   ► - It doesn't stick out that far.

00:09:09 ◼   ► - Basically the same thing as like wearing earrings.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Like you're probably fine, but if you wear

00:09:14 ◼   ► big dangly earrings, they could get caught in something

00:09:16 ◼   ► and yank through your earlobe and in a situation

00:09:19 ◼   ► where your earlobe would otherwise be fine, right?

00:09:22 ◼   ► Like so there are things that you can wear

00:09:24 ◼   ► that can injure you or increase the severity of an injury

00:09:28 ◼   ► that you would, you'd be injured anyway,

00:09:30 ◼   ► but wearing the thing increases the injury

00:09:32 ◼   ► or makes it much more severe.

00:09:34 ◼   ► And these giant watches definitely look like

00:09:36 ◼   ► they would increase the severity of an injury

00:09:38 ◼   ► or possibly injure you in a case where you wouldn't

00:09:40 ◼   ► have an injury in that area.

00:09:41 ◼   ► And they could also protect you I suppose

00:09:43 ◼   ► if you block bullets with them like Wonder Woman, but.

00:09:45 ◼   ► - No, it doesn't stick out that far.

00:09:47 ◼   ► It's like, no, this is a non-issue.

00:09:50 ◼   ► It does not stick out that far.

00:09:52 ◼   ► You're not gonna injure yourself with your Panerai.

00:09:54 ◼   ► - Even just a regular watch with nothing sticking out on it

00:09:56 ◼   ► can increase the severity of your injury

00:09:59 ◼   ► if it snags on something or presses against

00:10:01 ◼   ► some part of your skin because it's just a foreign object

00:10:04 ◼   ► attached to you, I don't know.

00:10:06 ◼   ► I'm obviously, I don't even wear my wedding ring anymore.

00:10:09 ◼   ► I don't wear earrings, don't wear a watch, so.

00:10:12 ◼   ► - Wait, did you wear earrings at some point?

00:10:15 ◼   ► - No, I just said I don't.

00:10:17 ◼   ► I didn't use a tense that,

00:10:20 ◼   ► should lead you to believe that I did.

00:10:21 ◼   ► I do not have any additional holes in my ears.

00:10:24 ◼   ► - That would be kind of, I would love to see this

00:10:26 ◼   ► if we can somehow arrange this.

00:10:28 ◼   ► - I can get a clip on earring.

00:10:29 ◼   ► I'll put it on for you right now.

00:10:30 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:10:31 ◼   ► - But that, I mean, I suppose that could increase

00:10:33 ◼   ► the chance of injury as well.

00:10:34 ◼   ► - Even just a simple earring, like, because the post

00:10:36 ◼   ► goes through, if your ear gets pressed against your neck,

00:10:38 ◼   ► the post can go into your neck.

00:10:40 ◼   ► - I think if you're to that point where that's a risk,

00:10:43 ◼   ► I think you have bigger problems.

00:10:44 ◼   ► - That's why you can't wear, you know,

00:10:46 ◼   ► earrings in gym class.

00:10:47 ◼   ► Like, they don't want you to poke a hole in your neck.

00:10:49 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:10:50 ◼   ► - Or get your earring ripped out.

00:10:52 ◼   ► - Well, but the good news is if you fall into the water,

00:10:55 ◼   ► the Panerai, isn't the history of Panerai

00:10:57 ◼   ► that it was like a diving watch or something like that?

00:11:00 ◼   ► And so you would at least know what time it is

00:11:01 ◼   ► as you're, you know, drowning.

00:11:03 ◼   ► So that's good.

00:11:04 ◼   ► - The bloom is so strong that as you go into the depths

00:11:06 ◼   ► of drowning, you will see that time for quite a while

00:11:08 ◼   ► as you go down.

00:11:09 ◼   ► - Precisely.

00:11:11 ◼   ► - And it's so big that it will weigh you down.

00:11:13 ◼   ► - So it'll hurry it all up for you.

00:11:14 ◼   ► - It'll go down faster.

00:11:16 ◼   ► - All right, we should probably get some started

00:11:18 ◼   ► with some follow up.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Greg Parker writes in that ARMv8.3 adds a new float

00:11:23 ◼   ► to int instruction with errors and out of range values

00:11:25 ◼   ► handled the way that JavaScript wants.

00:11:27 ◼   ► The previous instructions to get JavaScript semantics

00:11:29 ◼   ► were much slower, so JavaScript's numbers are double

00:11:32 ◼   ► by default, so it needs this conversion a lot.

00:11:35 ◼   ► So this is with regard to the dramatically increased

00:11:38 ◼   ► or improved benchmarks on the new A12 processor,

00:11:42 ◼   ► is that correct?

00:11:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, it did really well in the JavaScript benchmark.

00:11:47 ◼   ► And you know, this is just depressing.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Kind of in the, it's worse I think than, you know,

00:11:52 ◼   ► the quote unquote string instructions in x86

00:11:55 ◼   ► because JavaScript, as we all know, is a dumb language.

00:11:58 ◼   ► No one making a language today would decide,

00:12:02 ◼   ► you know what, semantics for like edge cases

00:12:04 ◼   ► and booleans and type conversion and how numbers are stored,

00:12:07 ◼   ► like no one would choose this.

00:12:09 ◼   ► It's not good.

00:12:11 ◼   ► No one is like, I love how JavaScript handles numbers.

00:12:13 ◼   ► It's so obvious and does what I want all the time

00:12:16 ◼   ► and doesn't have any weird edge cases.

00:12:18 ◼   ► It's just the best.

00:12:19 ◼   ► No, it's stupid.

00:12:20 ◼   ► But we're stuck with it.

00:12:21 ◼   ► - It's like the way PHP named functions

00:12:22 ◼   ► or orders arguments to things.

00:12:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, like I mean, it's JavaScript is a victim

00:12:26 ◼   ► of its own success, it's everywhere now.

00:12:28 ◼   ► And they keep changing, you know, JavaScript,

00:12:30 ◼   ► but there's a lot of things like that

00:12:31 ◼   ► that you can't, you would think,

00:12:33 ◼   ► oh, why don't they just change it?

00:12:34 ◼   ► Why don't they just change it

00:12:35 ◼   ► so they're just native in storage behind the scenes

00:12:36 ◼   ► and not have everything be doubles.

00:12:38 ◼   ► But that would change programs,

00:12:40 ◼   ► how they would break programs, right?

00:12:41 ◼   ► And the web, you know, they keep adding stuff to JavaScript

00:12:44 ◼   ► and adding new features, but the fundamentals like that

00:12:47 ◼   ► are changing slowly, put it that way.

00:12:48 ◼   ► I don't know if they've changed at all,

00:12:49 ◼   ► but they're changing very slowly.

00:12:51 ◼   ► So adding an instruction that lets you quickly convert

00:12:56 ◼   ► from JavaScript's stupid everything is a double

00:12:59 ◼   ► even though you think it's,

00:13:00 ◼   ► even though you start as the number one,

00:13:01 ◼   ► it's like, I know I'll start that as a double,

00:13:03 ◼   ► please don't, right?

00:13:05 ◼   ► And the whole like 53 bits of precision for, you know,

00:13:08 ◼   ► integers, even though it's there 64 bits long.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Anyway, there's lots of stupid things about it.

00:13:13 ◼   ► But given that JavaScript does this

00:13:16 ◼   ► and you have to follow these semantics,

00:13:18 ◼   ► having a CPU instruction that does this conversion

00:13:23 ◼   ► and handles it the way JavaScript wants you to handle it

00:13:25 ◼   ► in terms of what have I converted and it's too big

00:13:27 ◼   ► or too small underflow and overflow and all of this stuff

00:13:29 ◼   ► makes a JavaScript benchmark faster

00:13:31 ◼   ► because the JavaScript benchmark, maybe, you know,

00:13:33 ◼   ► a couple of them are doing lots of stuff in numerics

00:13:35 ◼   ► where otherwise they'd be spending so much of their time

00:13:37 ◼   ► doing conversions from int to float to float

00:13:38 ◼   ► in and back and forth.

00:13:40 ◼   ► If you can do that 10 times faster,

00:13:42 ◼   ► you get a higher score on the benchmark.

00:13:44 ◼   ► So that is, that's gross and depressing.

00:13:47 ◼   ► And I don't want my CPUs perverted by a stupid language,

00:13:50 ◼   ► but regular people just want web pages to be faster

00:13:54 ◼   ► and this gets the job done.

00:13:56 ◼   ► So I suppose, you know, you have more explanation

00:13:59 ◼   ► of why the A12 does so well on this JavaScript benchmark,

00:14:02 ◼   ► even if it's a depressing explanation.

00:14:05 ◼   ► - Minecraft is leaving the Apple TV.

00:14:08 ◼   ► We're grateful to the Apple TV community for their support,

00:14:10 ◼   ► but we need to reallocate resources to the platforms

00:14:13 ◼   ► that our players use the most.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Don't worry though, you can still play Minecraft

00:14:16 ◼   ► on Apple TV, keep building in your world

00:14:17 ◼   ► and your marketplace purchases, including Minecoins,

00:14:19 ◼   ► will continue to be available.

00:14:21 ◼   ► I know nothing about Minecraft,

00:14:23 ◼   ► so John, will you translate for me?

00:14:25 ◼   ► - Do you know that Minecraft is really popular?

00:14:27 ◼   ► - I did know that.

00:14:28 ◼   ► Although I did not know it was on the Apple TV.

00:14:31 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, there was a story about it.

00:14:32 ◼   ► And I think it was even an Apple presentation at some point.

00:14:34 ◼   ► Anyway, Minecraft was a wildly popular game.

00:14:37 ◼   ► It's been popular for years and years.

00:14:39 ◼   ► And the straightforward hot take on this is,

00:14:42 ◼   ► as everyone has said who's responding to these tweets

00:14:44 ◼   ► about this is that if you have a gaming platform

00:14:48 ◼   ► where Minecraft feels like there aren't enough users,

00:14:50 ◼   ► where you can't support Minecraft,

00:14:52 ◼   ► you have a crap gaming platform.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Because it's not like this is some obscure game.

00:14:56 ◼   ► If Minecraft can't get enough people to play it,

00:14:59 ◼   ► to justify porting it, like it's incredibly popular.

00:15:03 ◼   ► And the people who play it don't demand

00:15:05 ◼   ► super high performance or need to have a mouse and keyboard,

00:15:07 ◼   ► or it's not a platform exclusive like Apple TV,

00:15:11 ◼   ► but they say, you know what, it's not even worth it.

00:15:13 ◼   ► It's not even worth it to like the most popular game

00:15:16 ◼   ► in the world, like before Fortnite probably.

00:15:18 ◼   ► One of the most popular games in the world,

00:15:20 ◼   ► one of the most popular games ever made.

00:15:23 ◼   ► It's not worth their time to be in your plan.

00:15:24 ◼   ► This is after a fairly high profile,

00:15:26 ◼   ► even though none of you remember it,

00:15:28 ◼   ► coming out and saying, and Minecraft will be on Apple TV.

00:15:31 ◼   ► Yay, see, it's a good gaming platform.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Notice by the way that they're not pulling off of like iOS.

00:15:36 ◼   ► Like I think they still have a phone version

00:15:38 ◼   ► and an iPad version.

00:15:40 ◼   ► It's Apple TV in particular that they can't be bothered with

00:15:42 ◼   ► because not enough people play Minecraft on Apple TV.

00:15:46 ◼   ► And that's depressing.

00:15:47 ◼   ► We've talked about Apple TV and games in general and Apple.

00:15:51 ◼   ► And you know, I think Apple probably should care about this

00:15:56 ◼   ► because it's a big external validation of the idea

00:15:59 ◼   ► that Apple TV is not a good gaming platform.

00:16:02 ◼   ► Like not that you need much validation.

00:16:05 ◼   ► It's more like a dumping ground for people

00:16:08 ◼   ► who have an iOS game and think,

00:16:10 ◼   ► ah, you'll probably make an Apple TV

00:16:11 ◼   ► or maybe it'll be okay.

00:16:12 ◼   ► But nobody is getting an Apple TV to play games on it.

00:16:17 ◼   ► It's just not really a thing.

00:16:21 ◼   ► I'm sure people who have Apple TVs might enjoy the fact

00:16:23 ◼   ► that they can play games on it.

00:16:25 ◼   ► That's different than having a gaming platform.

00:16:26 ◼   ► I think we've discussed in the past.

00:16:28 ◼   ► If you really want to break into the gaming business,

00:16:31 ◼   ► you can do what Apple did and fall ass backwards into it

00:16:33 ◼   ► and say, oh wow, games, they make a lot of money.

00:16:36 ◼   ► Or you can set out to have a gaming platform,

00:16:40 ◼   ► which is what Microsoft did.

00:16:41 ◼   ► And that involves a lot of giving people a lot of money

00:16:44 ◼   ► and losing money over a long period of time

00:16:46 ◼   ► and courting game developers,

00:16:47 ◼   ► generally doing what Apple is doing with television now,

00:16:50 ◼   ► which is find talent,

00:16:52 ◼   ► get them to make things for your platform, market it.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And it remains to be seen if Apple will be successful,

00:16:56 ◼   ► but that's what it takes

00:16:57 ◼   ► because gaming is the entertainment industry

00:16:58 ◼   ► and you can't just say, we have a platform,

00:17:01 ◼   ► now come make great things for it

00:17:03 ◼   ► because that's not how the creative

00:17:05 ◼   ► and gaming industry works

00:17:06 ◼   ► because all the other players are out there

00:17:08 ◼   ► courting developers and trying to get the best content

00:17:11 ◼   ► and getting platform exclusives and paying for marketing

00:17:14 ◼   ► and paying for people to bring ports to the thing.

00:17:17 ◼   ► It's difficult to build critical mass.

00:17:19 ◼   ► So Apple is back to its normal position,

00:17:21 ◼   ► which is people just seem to love to make games

00:17:25 ◼   ► for our phone platform because we have a bunch of users

00:17:28 ◼   ► who are willing to spend money on software

00:17:29 ◼   ► and you can build your casino, human nature,

00:17:31 ◼   ► exploiting free to play casinos for children.

00:17:36 ◼   ► And we make tons of money off that

00:17:37 ◼   ► and we somehow we manage to sleep at night,

00:17:40 ◼   ► but it doesn't really require us to do anything

00:17:42 ◼   ► other than sell lots of iPhones every year,

00:17:43 ◼   ► which is itself a difficult task,

00:17:45 ◼   ► but still it's not,

00:17:46 ◼   ► the iPhone is not a gaming platform first

00:17:49 ◼   ► and everything else second,

00:17:51 ◼   ► despite games being by far the best seller in the app store.

00:17:54 ◼   ► - We are sponsored this week by Mack Weldon

00:17:58 ◼   ► and they make the best underwear, socks, shirts,

00:18:02 ◼   ► so many other wonderful clothing basics.

00:18:04 ◼   ► I'll tell you what,

00:18:05 ◼   ► they can't pay me to say how much I like it.

00:18:07 ◼   ► I love it.

00:18:09 ◼   ► They can pay me to tell you that it has smart design,

00:18:11 ◼   ► premium fabrics, simple shopping experience.

00:18:13 ◼   ► Those are all true.

00:18:15 ◼   ► They say they will have the most comfortable underwear,

00:18:17 ◼   ► socks, shirts, undershirts, hoodies and sweatpants

00:18:20 ◼   ► and more that you will ever wear.

00:18:21 ◼   ► They have a silver line that has silver antimicrobial fabric

00:18:25 ◼   ► woven in so it actually eliminates odor

00:18:27 ◼   ► and helps prevent you from getting stinky.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Those are all true, but let me tell you,

00:18:31 ◼   ► this clothing is awesome.

00:18:33 ◼   ► They can pay me to say all the other stuff.

00:18:34 ◼   ► They can't pay me to say that this is what I wear

00:18:37 ◼   ► the vast majority of the time.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Almost every day I'm wearing something,

00:18:40 ◼   ► at least one thing for Mack Weldon.

00:18:41 ◼   ► I'm always wearing their underwear.

00:18:43 ◼   ► I'm probably wearing one of their shirts now

00:18:45 ◼   ► and I might be wearing their socks,

00:18:46 ◼   ► I might be wearing their sweatpants

00:18:47 ◼   ► or their awesome shorts or they have a jacket now,

00:18:50 ◼   ► they have a hoodie, they have long sleeve shirts

00:18:52 ◼   ► which are great now as we go into fall and winter.

00:18:54 ◼   ► I love especially the warm knit shirt.

00:18:56 ◼   ► That's a super nice one, but also just their basic t-shirts

00:18:58 ◼   ► are really, really nice.

00:19:00 ◼   ► They're just super nice.

00:19:01 ◼   ► I love them so much.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Over the last few months, I did a diet and I lost some weight

00:19:05 ◼   ► and I changed sizes so I had to buy a lot of new clothes.

00:19:09 ◼   ► My old clothes didn't fit anymore

00:19:11 ◼   ► and I bought all Mack Weldon stuff.

00:19:13 ◼   ► That's how much I like it.

00:19:14 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:19:15 ◼   ► I just stocked up with Mack Weldon.

00:19:16 ◼   ► I got all the basic shirts, underwear, stuff like that.

00:19:19 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:19:20 ◼   ► It's all I wanna wear now and I wear it almost every day.

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00:19:32 ◼   ► If you wear the kind of stuff they make

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00:19:36 ◼   ► Once again, mackweldon.com,

00:19:38 ◼   ► 20% off your first order with code ATP.

00:19:40 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Mack Weldon

00:19:41 ◼   ► for making my entire wardrobe now

00:19:43 ◼   ► and for sponsoring our show.

00:19:45 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:19:48 ◼   ► Screen time is here and I have barely looked at it,

00:19:51 ◼   ► but I presume one of you has a little more thoughts

00:19:53 ◼   ► on this than I do.

00:19:55 ◼   ► - I put this in here back when screen time

00:19:56 ◼   ► was actually here, back with iOS 12 introduction.

00:19:59 ◼   ► It's been sitting there and we've had other things

00:20:01 ◼   ► to talk about, whatever.

00:20:02 ◼   ► I put it in for a couple of reasons.

00:20:04 ◼   ► One, I figure it's a good time for us to check in

00:20:06 ◼   ► with our own screen times to see if there's any surprises.

00:20:09 ◼   ► I'm assuming we all have it turned on

00:20:10 ◼   ► and occasionally we look at it.

00:20:12 ◼   ► So what do we think about the information

00:20:14 ◼   ► we found out there?

00:20:15 ◼   ► The second reason is because I also turned it on

00:20:17 ◼   ► for my kids and I wanted to talk about that.

00:20:20 ◼   ► - Ooh, this sounds fun.

00:20:21 ◼   ► - But let's do us first.

00:20:23 ◼   ► I thought I was using screen time,

00:20:25 ◼   ► but until last night when I was trying to figure out

00:20:27 ◼   ► why my settings has the one indicator on it,

00:20:31 ◼   ► I didn't actually have it turned on.

00:20:33 ◼   ► So I just turned it on last night,

00:20:34 ◼   ► so I don't really have useful data yet.

00:20:36 ◼   ► - Most use for me, the Plex Beta,

00:20:39 ◼   ► because that's how I've been watching a couple of things

00:20:43 ◼   ► here and there, like before I go to sleep.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Tweetbot, messages, Instagram, Safari, Facebook,

00:20:48 ◼   ► surprisingly, wow, I didn't really think

00:20:50 ◼   ► I looked at Facebook that much, huh, and mail.

00:20:53 ◼   ► 90 pickups a day, 1,005 notifications.

00:20:56 ◼   ► This is last seven days, 500, maybe more,

00:21:00 ◼   ► or more than 500, I don't know,

00:21:02 ◼   ► just as 500 messages, notifications, that's my most.

00:21:04 ◼   ► 182 mail notifications, which have been on my to-do list

00:21:07 ◼   ► to turn that, crank that down even more than I already have.

00:21:11 ◼   ► My garage door opener, getting pissed off about everything.

00:21:14 ◼   ► Like, hey, the light turned on, the light turned off,

00:21:16 ◼   ► the garage is open, the garage is closed,

00:21:17 ◼   ► I gotta turn that down.

00:21:19 ◼   ► Instagram, our baby, she pooped, she peed,

00:21:22 ◼   ► she ate, et cetera thing, ESPN and Slack.

00:21:25 ◼   ► - So no surprises for you except for Facebook,

00:21:26 ◼   ► which you didn't think you were using that much,

00:21:28 ◼   ► but showed up in the top five or whatever.

00:21:30 ◼   ► - One, two, three, four, five, top six, but yes,

00:21:33 ◼   ► that is an accurate description.

00:21:34 ◼   ► Time per day, it's hard for me to tell.

00:21:37 ◼   ► I don't, well, Tuesday apparently was six hours,

00:21:40 ◼   ► which seems pretty aggressive, but I don't know.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Yeah, the only thing I'd say I can definitely glean

00:21:46 ◼   ► from this is that I spend a lot of time on Twitter

00:21:49 ◼   ► and messages, which I knew, a fair bit of time

00:21:51 ◼   ► on Instagram and Safari, which I knew,

00:21:53 ◼   ► more than I thought on Facebook,

00:21:54 ◼   ► and I get a lot of text messages.

00:21:55 ◼   ► - What's interesting to me is that it's,

00:21:57 ◼   ► mine is, I mean, even though I have very small,

00:21:59 ◼   ► you know, number of values here,

00:22:02 ◼   ► but it's breaking down to individual websites in Safari,

00:22:06 ◼   ► and they look like apps.

00:22:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, if they get up to, like it'll do,

00:22:11 ◼   ► if a particular website you're on

00:22:14 ◼   ► for a significant period of time,

00:22:15 ◼   ► it ranks that website right alongside everything else.

00:22:17 ◼   ► It still shows you your Safari total, though,

00:22:19 ◼   ► which is handy for the kid stuff

00:22:20 ◼   ► to find out which websites they're on.

00:22:22 ◼   ► - So I can't say, other than the,

00:22:25 ◼   ► I mean, Facebook was what, 58 minutes in the last seven days,

00:22:28 ◼   ► which is not egregious, but more than I thought, to be fair.

00:22:32 ◼   ► But anyways, other than that,

00:22:33 ◼   ► I wouldn't say there was that much.

00:22:34 ◼   ► That was really too terribly interesting.

00:22:36 ◼   ► - Well, I've been watching, I use my iPad a lot,

00:22:39 ◼   ► and I've been watching TV shows on it,

00:22:41 ◼   ► so like Hulu is by far my number one,

00:22:43 ◼   ► 'cause they just like binged an entire season or something,

00:22:45 ◼   ► and Netflix is like in third place, and Twitter.

00:22:47 ◼   ► Twitter is the top non-I'm watching video app.

00:22:51 ◼   ► YouTube, surprisingly, is, well, I guess not that much,

00:22:53 ◼   ► one hour over the past seven days of YouTube,

00:22:56 ◼   ► but it's video, you know, so I do watch,

00:22:58 ◼   ► I'm not, I don't know how to split stuff by device,

00:23:00 ◼   ► but this is all devices, and I can tell you

00:23:02 ◼   ► that all the videos on my iPad.

00:23:04 ◼   ► Other than me watching TV shows on my stuff,

00:23:07 ◼   ► I think I'm using my devices less than you.

00:23:09 ◼   ► My average pickups per day is 17.

00:23:11 ◼   ► - Oh my God, you basically never touch your phone.

00:23:15 ◼   ► - You gotta get out of that whole pouch and everything.

00:23:17 ◼   ► It's a big ordeal. - That's true.

00:23:18 ◼   ► - This is the phone and the iPad, remember.

00:23:20 ◼   ► It's not just the phone.

00:23:21 ◼   ► - What do you do all,

00:23:22 ◼   ► you really do love the Mac, don't you?

00:23:25 ◼   ► - And then my notifications per day is 29,

00:23:28 ◼   ► and almost all of those are from Nest, again,

00:23:31 ◼   ► security, camera stuff,

00:23:33 ◼   ► noticing the light moving across the room.

00:23:36 ◼   ► - Oh God, do the Nest engineers who design these

00:23:39 ◼   ► sensing notification movement kind of things,

00:23:43 ◼   ► do they not ever test it in a room that has a window?

00:23:46 ◼   ► - Most of the time I get it as not the sun by itself,

00:23:49 ◼   ► but like a branch with leaves on it

00:23:51 ◼   ► swaying in the wind in front of the sun,

00:23:52 ◼   ► making it flicker and move,

00:23:54 ◼   ► but I think most of these notifications are,

00:23:57 ◼   ► your Nest Cam thinks it hears a dog barking,

00:23:59 ◼   ► and it's right, it does.

00:24:00 ◼   ► My dog is barking.

00:24:01 ◼   ► Sorry, neighbors.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Second place is messages, but it's a very low number.

00:24:06 ◼   ► And then third place is my dog's GPS thing

00:24:09 ◼   ► for notifications.

00:24:10 ◼   ► So yeah, what this is telling me is that basically

00:24:13 ◼   ► I'm watching a lot of video in Netflix, Hulu, and YouTube,

00:24:16 ◼   ► and TiVo even, one hour on TiVo, I think I watched, yeah.

00:24:19 ◼   ► Occasionally if I'm in bed already

00:24:22 ◼   ► and wanna watch TV show,

00:24:23 ◼   ► I don't bother going downstairs to watch it

00:24:25 ◼   ► if I'm gonna like,

00:24:26 ◼   ► if it's the last thing I'm gonna watch before I go to bed

00:24:27 ◼   ► or whatever, I'll watch it there, so not a lot.

00:24:30 ◼   ► And then Twitter,

00:24:31 ◼   ► Twitter is by far my number one actual iOS app

00:24:35 ◼   ► that doesn't involve watching videos.

00:24:36 ◼   ► So no surprises for me.

00:24:37 ◼   ► I'm such an anti-notification person, just seeing,

00:24:42 ◼   ► obviously when you rank stuff, you're gonna rank like,

00:24:44 ◼   ► what is the thing that sends me the most notifications?

00:24:45 ◼   ► There will always be a number one,

00:24:47 ◼   ► unless you have zero notifications on,

00:24:48 ◼   ► there will always be a number one.

00:24:50 ◼   ► But my instinct is to look at that number one and say,

00:24:53 ◼   ► I'm gonna knock you down.

00:24:54 ◼   ► I gotta take whatever that number one is,

00:24:56 ◼   ► let me see if I can cut that number of notifications in half,

00:24:57 ◼   ► but there will always be a number one.

00:24:59 ◼   ► It's not like I can eliminate it.

00:25:00 ◼   ► It's like, if I follow this instinct, eventually,

00:25:02 ◼   ► everything will have notifications turned off.

00:25:04 ◼   ► So, I mean, maybe I'll make, I don't know,

00:25:07 ◼   ► I like the Nest notifications

00:25:10 ◼   ► and I'd like to be able to see

00:25:11 ◼   ► if my dog is getting into something in the house

00:25:14 ◼   ► or I like knowing like when the kids come home,

00:25:16 ◼   ► they usually get a Nest notification

00:25:17 ◼   ► from them walking in the door, you know?

00:25:19 ◼   ► So, but on the kids' devices, I mean,

00:25:23 ◼   ► transitioning into the kids' stuff,

00:25:24 ◼   ► 'cause it doesn't sound like we have any dramatic news

00:25:26 ◼   ► for our stuff.

00:25:27 ◼   ► - Well, hold on, before you do that, are you,

00:25:28 ◼   ► either of you, I'm assuming not Marco,

00:25:30 ◼   ► leveraging any of the like downtime or anything like that?

00:25:32 ◼   ► Because I really should explore that.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Maybe I'll set homework for myself

00:25:36 ◼   ► that I need to play with that.

00:25:38 ◼   ► Because as an example, we tend to eat dinner

00:25:41 ◼   ► at around the same time every night

00:25:42 ◼   ► and sometimes I'll get a buzz or notification or something,

00:25:45 ◼   ► or maybe just not have the self-control

00:25:46 ◼   ► to not pick up my phone.

00:25:48 ◼   ► And I'll be using my phone over dinner,

00:25:51 ◼   ► which obviously any family time

00:25:53 ◼   ► I shouldn't be doing it, period.

00:25:54 ◼   ► But particularly over dinner is kind of obnoxious with me.

00:25:57 ◼   ► So maybe I'll try that and set that up

00:26:00 ◼   ► to give myself a little downtime during dinner

00:26:02 ◼   ► and see how that works out.

00:26:04 ◼   ► But Jon, have you played with it?

00:26:04 ◼   ► Well, let me start with Marco.

00:26:06 ◼   ► I assume you haven't.

00:26:07 ◼   ► - No, I haven't.

00:26:08 ◼   ► I mean, I do schedule, do not disturb at night,

00:26:10 ◼   ► like when I'm expected to be in bed, but otherwise, no.

00:26:13 ◼   ► - All right, well, I'm gonna try some downtime

00:26:14 ◼   ► and see how that works over dinner.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Jon, what about you?

00:26:17 ◼   ► Any downtime or app limits or anything?

00:26:19 ◼   ► - No, I don't see why I would use downtime,

00:26:24 ◼   ► because that's the thing that like stops you

00:26:27 ◼   ► from using your device, right?

00:26:29 ◼   ► - Or does it just lock out certain apps?

00:26:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, or yeah, but I don't want

00:26:33 ◼   ► to be locked out of anything.

00:26:34 ◼   ► - I mean, for me, like, you know,

00:26:36 ◼   ► just for me to try to add some kind of value

00:26:38 ◼   ► to this discussion, not having any data on myself yet,

00:26:42 ◼   ► I have spent, you know, periods in the past

00:26:44 ◼   ► using things like Rescue Time

00:26:46 ◼   ► that can track what I'm doing on the Mac.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And this kind of stuff was never possible to do on iOS

00:26:52 ◼   ► in some kind of like automated system I'd way before,

00:26:54 ◼   ► which is why screen time is noteworthy and useful now.

00:26:57 ◼   ► But on the Mac, it's been possible for a long time.

00:26:59 ◼   ► So I have done that before for long spans.

00:27:02 ◼   ► And just to do things, you know, kind of like what,

00:27:06 ◼   ► like what our friends talk about like on Cortex

00:27:09 ◼   ► and what you, Casey, have so far done very poorly

00:27:12 ◼   ► on analog about time tracking.

00:27:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:27:16 ◼   ► - This is a true story.

00:27:17 ◼   ► - You know, what you're basically doing here

00:27:19 ◼   ► is like time tracking for the stuff

00:27:20 ◼   ► you're doing on your phone.

00:27:22 ◼   ► And so the value there is in,

00:27:26 ◼   ► not necessarily in like shaming you or in controlling you,

00:27:31 ◼   ► the value is giving you information about something

00:27:34 ◼   ► that your brain is pretty hard,

00:27:36 ◼   ► or is pretty bad at estimating on its own.

00:27:38 ◼   ► Like if you just ask most people,

00:27:39 ◼   ► like how many times do you pick up your phone in a day?

00:27:41 ◼   ► And you know, they'll give some estimate,

00:27:42 ◼   ► it's actually like, you know, 10 times higher.

00:27:44 ◼   ► 'Cause like you just, your brain's not good at that.

00:27:46 ◼   ► Or a more useful example of like,

00:27:48 ◼   ► how long do you spend browsing Twitter every day?

00:27:51 ◼   ► And, or every week?

00:27:52 ◼   ► Like if you look at like, oh,

00:27:54 ◼   ► if I wanna get 40 hours of work in in any given week,

00:27:57 ◼   ► how many of those hours am I wasting on Twitter?

00:28:00 ◼   ► And you can get that information now.

00:28:02 ◼   ► Like you have that information.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And when I've had that information in the past,

00:28:05 ◼   ► like on my Mac, that number has been scary.

00:28:09 ◼   ► That's why I have, that's why I made Quitter.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Like that's why, because like I would see like,

00:28:14 ◼   ► oh, I've used Twitter for something like, you know,

00:28:17 ◼   ► six hours this week out of like the 40 or 50 or 60

00:28:21 ◼   ► that I was at my computer.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Like, that's not good.

00:28:23 ◼   ► That's not worth it to me.

00:28:26 ◼   ► And so the main value in this is giving you the tools

00:28:31 ◼   ► to do whatever you feel is necessary.

00:28:33 ◼   ► And that might be nothing.

00:28:34 ◼   ► You might decide when you see your data,

00:28:35 ◼   ► like you know what, okay,

00:28:36 ◼   ► I already have a pretty good balance.

00:28:37 ◼   ► I don't need to do anything right now.

00:28:39 ◼   ► But it's useful to check in there every so often,

00:28:41 ◼   ► just so you can see like,

00:28:42 ◼   ► oh, I'm spending X hours a day or a week on this thing.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Is that really worth it to me?

00:28:49 ◼   ► Is that worth those X hours a week?

00:28:51 ◼   ► Or should I use these tools to help me reduce that?

00:28:55 ◼   ► That's really valuable.

00:28:57 ◼   ► - I would have guessed way more than 70 pickups per day.

00:28:59 ◼   ► I don't know if this thing is broken or what.

00:29:00 ◼   ► I mean, every other number looked accurate,

00:29:02 ◼   ► but I don't know if it's counting my pickups quite right.

00:29:04 ◼   ► I feel like I'd, well, I don't know.

00:29:05 ◼   ► Maybe if I added them up,

00:29:06 ◼   ► I'd take out my phone more than 17 times a day today.

00:29:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:29:10 ◼   ► But anyway, downtime, yes.

00:29:12 ◼   ► I use downtime on the kids.

00:29:14 ◼   ► - How'd that go?

00:29:16 ◼   ► - It's things that stops you from using your thing.

00:29:18 ◼   ► You can make exceptions for applications

00:29:20 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:29:20 ◼   ► But no, I don't use that.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Do not disturb is the feature that I love

00:29:26 ◼   ► because although I have to sometimes remember

00:29:28 ◼   ► that it's on iOS 12 is kind of obnoxious with this banner.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Every time you have do not disturb on,

00:29:32 ◼   ► there's a giant banner on your phone

00:29:33 ◼   ► every time you look at it, just so you know,

00:29:35 ◼   ► like it's on right now.

00:29:36 ◼   ► So let me see what it looks like.

00:29:37 ◼   ► It's like--

00:29:38 ◼   ► - I find that great, honestly,

00:29:39 ◼   ► because it prevents you from leaving it on

00:29:42 ◼   ► without realizing it's on

00:29:43 ◼   ► and missing everything for like a day.

00:29:44 ◼   ► - Well, but there's a thing like time,

00:29:46 ◼   ► I don't know why everybody doesn't do this.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Time to do not disturb.

00:29:48 ◼   ► This is my recommendation for everybody

00:29:50 ◼   ► who's listening right now.

00:29:51 ◼   ► Set scheduled do not disturb.

00:29:54 ◼   ► Pick hours, like be conservative if you want.

00:29:56 ◼   ► Say I don't want to be disturbed from 2 a.m. to 5 a.m.

00:29:59 ◼   ► Maybe start with that if you're afraid

00:30:00 ◼   ► I need to be reached all times.

00:30:01 ◼   ► Just pick some times of like,

00:30:03 ◼   ► after this hour I don't wanna be disturbed

00:30:05 ◼   ► and before this hour I don't wanna be disturbed

00:30:06 ◼   ► and just set time do not disturb for that time.

00:30:10 ◼   ► It's such a simple thing that I'm shocked

00:30:12 ◼   ► that everybody doesn't do it,

00:30:13 ◼   ► but I always see people like,

00:30:14 ◼   ► "Oh, I don't wanna do do not disturb,"

00:30:15 ◼   ► or "I forget when it's on,"

00:30:16 ◼   ► or "I just set a schedule."

00:30:17 ◼   ► It's like, oh, then some people are like,

00:30:18 ◼   ► "Oh, but what if someone wants to reach me at 10 o' one p.m."

00:30:21 ◼   ► It's like your favorites can get through,

00:30:23 ◼   ► repeated calls can get through.

00:30:24 ◼   ► They'll reach you if they need to get through.

00:30:27 ◼   ► So my time do not disturb is like 9 p.m. to like 6 a.m.

00:30:32 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:30:34 ◼   ► And that does for me what I think a lot of people

00:30:36 ◼   ► are looking for for downtime.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Well, maybe it's not the same thing.

00:30:38 ◼   ► I'm not preventing myself from using my phone.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Phone works fine as far as I'm concerned,

00:30:41 ◼   ► but the point is if my phone is sitting next to me

00:30:43 ◼   ► while I'm watching TV, it never disturbs my television

00:30:47 ◼   ► 'cause nothing will make it vibrate or make a noise,

00:30:50 ◼   ► which is kind of annoying to other people who live with me

00:30:53 ◼   ► because occasionally my wife or my kids will text me

00:30:56 ◼   ► from upstairs.

00:30:58 ◼   ► My kids will text me, not text me,

00:31:01 ◼   ► I'll get the notifications then that they wanna buy an app

00:31:03 ◼   ► or download an app or extend their downtime,

00:31:06 ◼   ► which we'll get to in a second,

00:31:08 ◼   ► and I won't see the notification,

00:31:09 ◼   ► or my wife will text me and I won't see the notification.

00:31:12 ◼   ► I mean, we're in the same house.

00:31:13 ◼   ► They could just come and get me if they really cared,

00:31:14 ◼   ► but they'd be like, "Why didn't you answer my text?"

00:31:16 ◼   ► Like, "I didn't see your text."

00:31:18 ◼   ► Like, my phone becomes dead to the world

00:31:20 ◼   ► as far as notifying me about anything,

00:31:23 ◼   ► but if I need to pick up my phone

00:31:24 ◼   ► and look up where an actor is from or something,

00:31:26 ◼   ► it works fine.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Like, I'm not locking myself out of anything.

00:31:28 ◼   ► So I don't see that I would ever use downtime,

00:31:31 ◼   ► but that's the exact feature I want for my kids

00:31:34 ◼   ► because it's just a sort of,

00:31:36 ◼   ► it's computer enforced way of thinking.

00:31:38 ◼   ► We always had downtime in the house.

00:31:39 ◼   ► No electronics after whatever time, right?

00:31:41 ◼   ► That's been a rule forever.

00:31:43 ◼   ► But the problem is if you're not on top of them,

00:31:46 ◼   ► they're always trying to eke out

00:31:47 ◼   ► that extra two or three minutes,

00:31:48 ◼   ► or they're like, "Oh, just let me finish this thing

00:31:50 ◼   ► that I'm doing," or whatever,

00:31:51 ◼   ► and it's just, it's a constant battle.

00:31:53 ◼   ► And you can shortcut that battle

00:31:55 ◼   ► and not fight over those extra two minutes,

00:31:57 ◼   ► oh, whatever, by just having the computer do it.

00:32:00 ◼   ► And there is a handy feature

00:32:01 ◼   ► which they all quickly discovered

00:32:02 ◼   ► which you can ask for an extension.

00:32:04 ◼   ► So if you're in the middle of watching something

00:32:06 ◼   ► and the big scary downtime banner comes over

00:32:09 ◼   ► to precisely 9 p.m. or whatever,

00:32:12 ◼   ► they can press a button on the screen

00:32:14 ◼   ► that says ask for more time,

00:32:15 ◼   ► and we'll get a notification that says,

00:32:18 ◼   ► so-and-so would like to have 15 more minutes of YouTube

00:32:23 ◼   ► or whatever app they're using.

00:32:23 ◼   ► Like, it's specific to that app.

00:32:25 ◼   ► And you could say yes or no,

00:32:27 ◼   ► unless your phone doesn't do it at the start,

00:32:29 ◼   ► in which case you don't see the notification.

00:32:30 ◼   ► You have to wait for them to come whine in person,

00:32:31 ◼   ► which is fine with me.

00:32:32 ◼   ► Like, good, take the stairs.

00:32:34 ◼   ► It's a good exercise.

00:32:35 ◼   ► So we did that.

00:32:37 ◼   ► A couple aspects of the experiment.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I did that.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I also wanted to see what they were doing,

00:32:39 ◼   ► like to see their graph,

00:32:41 ◼   ► like how much time they were spending in each app.

00:32:43 ◼   ► Not that it was surprising.

00:32:44 ◼   ► Guess what?

00:32:45 ◼   ► YouTube is really popular with both of them.

00:32:46 ◼   ► Websites they're on, which was interesting

00:32:49 ◼   ► and led to some interesting conversations.

00:32:51 ◼   ► But you know, I'm not like pouring over

00:32:53 ◼   ► their entire history or whatever.

00:32:55 ◼   ► The screen time stuff, or the downtime stuff

00:32:58 ◼   ► was very upsetting initially,

00:33:00 ◼   ► because they didn't like the hardline nature of it,

00:33:03 ◼   ► especially before they discovered the extension.

00:33:06 ◼   ► They didn't like the idea that it precisely,

00:33:08 ◼   ► you know, the hour ticks over or whatever,

00:33:10 ◼   ► the precise time.

00:33:11 ◼   ► There's no ifs, ands, or buts.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Doesn't care if you're in the middle of something.

00:33:13 ◼   ► Doesn't care if there's only one minute left

00:33:15 ◼   ► on the show that you're watching.

00:33:16 ◼   ► It just doesn't care.

00:33:17 ◼   ► It just--

00:33:18 ◼   ► - So now, did you tell them beforehand

00:33:20 ◼   ► that this was going to be a thing,

00:33:21 ◼   ► or did you just turn it on and let them, you know, stew?

00:33:23 ◼   ► - I told them about the feature of iOS 12

00:33:25 ◼   ► when it was announced,

00:33:26 ◼   ► and have talked to them about it previously,

00:33:28 ◼   ► gleefully saying, "It's coming, it's coming."

00:33:30 ◼   ► But I didn't like tell them the day.

00:33:32 ◼   ► They knew I was upgrading all their devices.

00:33:33 ◼   ► I didn't tell.

00:33:34 ◼   ► I think I, anyway, I probably caught a couple of them

00:33:37 ◼   ► by surprise, despite the fact that I was even talking about it

00:33:38 ◼   ► where they didn't know exactly when it would come.

00:33:42 ◼   ► - A couple of them?

00:33:42 ◼   ► How many more are there?

00:33:44 ◼   ► - You know, my son got annoyed by it.

00:33:47 ◼   ► My daughter quickly adapted and shifted

00:33:49 ◼   ► into just asking for extensions, and I don't know.

00:33:52 ◼   ► I mean, they'll live with it.

00:33:53 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Like, you can, the tricky thing is,

00:33:55 ◼   ► before they had the extension thing,

00:33:57 ◼   ► my son is like, "I need to do my homework."

00:33:59 ◼   ► I'm like, "Fine, I'll disable it for you."

00:34:00 ◼   ► So I disabled it, but I didn't realize

00:34:01 ◼   ► that I had permanently disabled.

00:34:03 ◼   ► Like, I didn't know I was basically losing it.

00:34:05 ◼   ► And so the next day, he's using his device past the deadline

00:34:07 ◼   ► and we're like, "Did you turn it off for his thing?"

00:34:08 ◼   ► So I turned it back on.

00:34:10 ◼   ► So, but I think now we're just settling it.

00:34:12 ◼   ► You know, you can adjust the time,

00:34:14 ◼   ► and there are negotiations.

00:34:15 ◼   ► It's not, it's not like a, it's, again,

00:34:18 ◼   ► it's a thing that we were doing anyway.

00:34:19 ◼   ► It's just an additional tool

00:34:21 ◼   ► to make that interaction easier,

00:34:23 ◼   ► because for whatever reason, the kids are more accepting

00:34:27 ◼   ► that the computer is doing it to them

00:34:30 ◼   ► than if I came and hard-lined said,

00:34:32 ◼   ► "Oh, it's 9 p.m., like this."

00:34:34 ◼   ► I would do that, and then it's an immediate negotiation

00:34:36 ◼   ► and whining and annoyance or whatever,

00:34:38 ◼   ► where if the screen just blanks over,

00:34:40 ◼   ► then they have, it's on them to say,

00:34:41 ◼   ► "Do I care enough about watching the last two minutes

00:34:43 ◼   ► "of this thing to go down and whine and beg

00:34:46 ◼   ► "or ask for an extension, right?

00:34:48 ◼   ► "Or do I not care enough?"

00:34:50 ◼   ► Like, they have to come to me and say, "I want,"

00:34:53 ◼   ► you know, it puts the burden on them to do it.

00:34:56 ◼   ► And it's just, the path leads to business,

00:34:57 ◼   ► like, "Oh, I wasn't doing anything anyway.

00:34:59 ◼   ► "I was just, you know, farting around on YouTube."

00:35:01 ◼   ► And they'll pick up the video right where I left off

00:35:04 ◼   ► tomorrow morning or whatever when I look at it.

00:35:06 ◼   ► So, you know, I think that's mostly settled in fine.

00:35:10 ◼   ► I do like seeing what they're doing.

00:35:12 ◼   ► Again, screen time isn't the first time

00:35:13 ◼   ► I'm seeing what they're doing.

00:35:14 ◼   ► I always look what they're doing on their devices,

00:35:16 ◼   ► which they hate, but it's part of being a kid,

00:35:19 ◼   ► is your parents get to know what the heck you're doing

00:35:21 ◼   ► on the computer all the time.

00:35:22 ◼   ► What video are you watching?

00:35:23 ◼   ► What websites are you going to do?

00:35:24 ◼   ► What is this about?

00:35:25 ◼   ► You've seen me, like, I'm always watching in real life.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And I think they prefer this, because at least then

00:35:32 ◼   ► I'm not over their shoulders.

00:35:34 ◼   ► "Hey, what's that video about?"

00:35:35 ◼   ► They hate when I do that, but that's parenting for you.

00:35:38 ◼   ► You have to actually be aware of what they're doing.

00:35:41 ◼   ► - You know, little Bertie's telling me

00:35:43 ◼   ► that you're downplaying how perturbed your son was

00:35:46 ◼   ► when this all landed.

00:35:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:35:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I know, but like,

00:35:51 ◼   ► I don't wanna throw any kids under the bus.

00:35:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:35:57 ◼   ► It's tough being a kid, right?

00:36:00 ◼   ► We all make adjustments.

00:36:02 ◼   ► I ended up adjusting my son's time

00:36:04 ◼   ► to be a little bit different than my daughter's

00:36:05 ◼   ► because he's older, and to recognize the fact

00:36:07 ◼   ► that he has less time for leisure

00:36:08 ◼   ► because he does sports after school, right?

00:36:11 ◼   ► And then he's gotta do homework, right?

00:36:12 ◼   ► And so the adjustments have been made

00:36:14 ◼   ► to make it reasonably equitable,

00:36:17 ◼   ► so they can get in their minimum amount of YouTube time.

00:36:19 ◼   ► Although, they really don't have a case.

00:36:21 ◼   ► When I look at the YouTube totals for the week,

00:36:23 ◼   ► and he's complaining on a weekend when downtime kicks in,

00:36:26 ◼   ► and like, "Oh, you only watched six hours of YouTube today."

00:36:29 ◼   ► Which watching YouTube is like a thing

00:36:31 ◼   ► that your parents would say

00:36:32 ◼   ► that you would like playing Nintendo or whatever.

00:36:34 ◼   ► Watching YouTube is not a thing.

00:36:35 ◼   ► He's watching video, right?

00:36:37 ◼   ► If he's watching a television show,

00:36:38 ◼   ► and he's watching a season of a television show

00:36:40 ◼   ► because there's a season of a television show on YouTube,

00:36:42 ◼   ► which is a thing, it's like,

00:36:43 ◼   ► "Oh, you're watching quote, unquote, YouTube."

00:36:45 ◼   ► It's just like watching TV or movies,

00:36:47 ◼   ► or like what I did, binge watching a sci-fi series

00:36:51 ◼   ► on Hulu or something.

00:36:52 ◼   ► The fact that it's YouTube doesn't change the fact

00:36:54 ◼   ► that he's essentially watching a TV show, right?

00:36:56 ◼   ► So it's not that ridiculous.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Although a lot of it is, of course,

00:37:00 ◼   ► watching Fortnite videos,

00:37:01 ◼   ► but I watch a lot of Destiny videos too,

00:37:03 ◼   ► so I can understand.

00:37:04 ◼   ► Anyway, it's mostly working itself out.

00:37:08 ◼   ► But the big thing, like this topic changed.

00:37:12 ◼   ► Like, "Yeah, so that's screen time for the kids.

00:37:13 ◼   ► I'm finding it a valuable tool.

00:37:15 ◼   ► There's, you know, it can't be the only tool,

00:37:17 ◼   ► and you should be doing this anyway.

00:37:19 ◼   ► It can be helpful.

00:37:20 ◼   ► I'm glad this feature exists in iOS, Valve."

00:37:22 ◼   ► But now this topic suddenly changes, unfortunately,

00:37:25 ◼   ► for people who don't like hearing us talk about bugs,

00:37:27 ◼   ► to a story about how screen time has decided

00:37:31 ◼   ► that it's no longer interested

00:37:32 ◼   ► in performing one of its major functions.

00:37:34 ◼   ► So if you have a family in iCloud,

00:37:38 ◼   ► which I suggest you do,

00:37:39 ◼   ► because there's lots of cool features that come with it,

00:37:40 ◼   ► and you make a family, you put the members of the family,

00:37:42 ◼   ► and you put the kids in, and you have the adults,

00:37:46 ◼   ► and I think only one person could be like the family manager,

00:37:49 ◼   ► which just lets you add them.

00:37:50 ◼   ► Anyway, when I go to screen time on any of my iOS devices,

00:37:56 ◼   ► I see all my info, and then if I scroll down,

00:37:58 ◼   ► there's a section called Family, and it shows my two kids.

00:38:02 ◼   ► Not my wife, she's also a member of the family,

00:38:03 ◼   ► but it doesn't show her.

00:38:04 ◼   ► So I see my two kids,

00:38:05 ◼   ► and they're in a little section on their own.

00:38:07 ◼   ► They have a little, you know, rightward-facing arrow,

00:38:10 ◼   ► and it used to be when I would tap on one of them,

00:38:13 ◼   ► you see a screen that looks just like your screen,

00:38:15 ◼   ► where it says, "Downtime app limits, allowed apps,

00:38:18 ◼   ► content and privacy restrictions, include website data,"

00:38:21 ◼   ► you know, all the same things that you see on your own,

00:38:23 ◼   ► and that's where you can set what the downtime is

00:38:24 ◼   ► for that kid, what the app limits are,

00:38:26 ◼   ► which is nice.

00:38:27 ◼   ► I excluded apps like, you know, by default,

00:38:29 ◼   ► like maps and messages are excluded.

00:38:31 ◼   ► I excluded like FaceTime, and I excluded,

00:38:33 ◼   ► I excluded a whole bunch of things that are reasonable.

00:38:34 ◼   ► Basically, if I could blacklist,

00:38:37 ◼   ► that all it has to do with blacklist YouTube,

00:38:38 ◼   ► and I basically destroy their devices,

00:38:40 ◼   ► as far as they're concerned, right?

00:38:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:38:43 ◼   ► Yeah, and the content and privacy restrictions,

00:38:45 ◼   ► you can not let them, you know, rent, you know,

00:38:48 ◼   ► rated R movies, although for a longest time,

00:38:51 ◼   ► when you have a family, if a kid wants to buy something,

00:38:54 ◼   ► they can't buy anything.

00:38:55 ◼   ► They can't even download free stuff

00:38:57 ◼   ► without it sending a notification

00:38:58 ◼   ► to one or both of the parents' accounts,

00:39:01 ◼   ► and saying, you know, "Kate wants to watch the movie,"

00:39:04 ◼   ► whatever, and you can see information about the movie,

00:39:06 ◼   ► you can approve or deny.

00:39:07 ◼   ► That feature's been there for a while.

00:39:08 ◼   ► It's not a screen time thing,

00:39:09 ◼   ► but that's definitely a cool thing.

00:39:10 ◼   ► If parents don't know about it, you should definitely,

00:39:12 ◼   ► there's another reason to put people into a family.

00:39:13 ◼   ► You definitely enable that.

00:39:14 ◼   ► You basically know that there's no way

00:39:15 ◼   ► your kids can download anything onto their devices

00:39:18 ◼   ► without you approving it.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Again, even if it's a free app,

00:39:21 ◼   ► especially if it's a free app,

00:39:22 ◼   ► 'cause I like these free-to-play games.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Anyway, at the top, it says screen time,

00:39:26 ◼   ► and it's got an all devices thing,

00:39:28 ◼   ► because they both have phones and iPads at this point.

00:39:31 ◼   ► And in theory, if you tap on all devices,

00:39:33 ◼   ► you see it today and last seven days,

00:39:35 ◼   ► there should be a bunch of graphs there,

00:39:36 ◼   ► just like there are for us.

00:39:38 ◼   ► But instead, what I see is, underneath all devices,

00:39:40 ◼   ► it says, "As this device is used,

00:39:42 ◼   ► screen time will be reported here."

00:39:43 ◼   ► And if you tap into all devices,

00:39:46 ◼   ► today says nothing and last seven days says nothing.

00:39:48 ◼   ► This worked fine for the first two weeks of iOS 12,

00:39:51 ◼   ► and then for the past two weeks or so,

00:39:54 ◼   ► there's just no data.

00:39:56 ◼   ► As this device is used, screen time will be reported here.

00:39:58 ◼   ► I assure you, this device is being used.

00:40:00 ◼   ► No, they have not disabled screen timeline devices.

00:40:02 ◼   ► Their devices are all set up fine.

00:40:04 ◼   ► You can look on their devices and see the info.

00:40:06 ◼   ► They're all set up to share with iCloud, like everything.

00:40:08 ◼   ► All the settings are correct.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Nothing is disabled.

00:40:10 ◼   ► They haven't somehow circumvented it or whatever,

00:40:12 ◼   ► just both of them one day just disappeared.

00:40:15 ◼   ► So now, this feature that used to work

00:40:17 ◼   ► is now entirely non-functional.

00:40:19 ◼   ► I can't see any screen time information for any of my kids

00:40:22 ◼   ► anymore, despite it working for multiple weeks.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So that kind of annoys me because it's one of those things

00:40:27 ◼   ► like, well, what do you do?

00:40:28 ◼   ► I pull the refresh, I tap, I turn screen time on,

00:40:30 ◼   ► turn screen time off.

00:40:32 ◼   ► I don't even know what to do.

00:40:34 ◼   ► I tried all the things.

00:40:36 ◼   ► I'm not gonna delete the family and then recreate it

00:40:39 ◼   ► 'cause that'll destroy a million things.

00:40:41 ◼   ► So I'm hoping the dot update will fix this.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Well, this is pretty frustrating that a headlining feature

00:40:46 ◼   ► that I was actually enjoying decided to just stop working

00:40:50 ◼   ► and not entirely, 'cause again, I can go to their devices

00:40:54 ◼   ► and look it up on each one of their devices,

00:40:55 ◼   ► but the whole point of this is as the family adult

00:40:59 ◼   ► or whatever, I should be able to look at it in my devices

00:41:02 ◼   ► and they're all listed here.

00:41:03 ◼   ► I just can't see any information about them.

00:41:04 ◼   ► So I find this very frustrating, but aside from the bugs,

00:41:08 ◼   ► I suggest all parents, A, look into making a family

00:41:13 ◼   ► with your kids, I forget about the process.

00:41:17 ◼   ► It used to be worse than it is now,

00:41:18 ◼   ► but kids can have their own Apple IDs,

00:41:22 ◼   ► which is what I suggest.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Don't try to share one amongst the whole family.

00:41:24 ◼   ► Everyone in the family should have their own Apple ID.

00:41:26 ◼   ► There's a kid's Apple ID.

00:41:27 ◼   ► You can make a family.

00:41:28 ◼   ► You can say which are the kids and which are the adults.

00:41:30 ◼   ► And the kids, you can require your approval

00:41:33 ◼   ► to make purchases.

00:41:34 ◼   ► And in theory, you could see their screen time information.

00:41:37 ◼   ► And these are all great tools for parents

00:41:39 ◼   ► and I'm glad Apple's added them.

00:41:41 ◼   ► I just want them to go back to working.

00:41:44 ◼   ► - I don't think you're alone in this either.

00:41:45 ◼   ► We heard from a lot of our friends who did this

00:41:46 ◼   ► during the iOS 12 beta that apparently,

00:41:49 ◼   ► it seemed like screen time,

00:41:51 ◼   ► like whether it tracked data for you or not,

00:41:53 ◼   ► and especially whether it synced that data,

00:41:55 ◼   ► was seemingly very rough and buggy during the beta.

00:41:58 ◼   ► And so it's possible they just haven't ironed that out yet.

00:42:01 ◼   ► So I would keep an eye on it and hopefully they will

00:42:04 ◼   ► get it all worked out in the next couple of point releases.

00:42:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, I heard that too during the betas,

00:42:08 ◼   ► which I ran iOS 12 since like the second beta on my iPad.

00:42:12 ◼   ► And I heard people saying, oh, screen time is fine,

00:42:15 ◼   ► except like they were just doing for themselves,

00:42:16 ◼   ► except like every once in a while with a new beta,

00:42:18 ◼   ► it just totally wipes all my screen time data.

00:42:20 ◼   ► I'm like, well, fine, it's a beta,

00:42:21 ◼   ► like they'll wipe the data every once in a while,

00:42:22 ◼   ► but surely once the release one comes, they won't do that.

00:42:26 ◼   ► This seems like a different class of bug

00:42:27 ◼   ► in that the data is all still being collected.

00:42:30 ◼   ► I just can't see it from my phone,

00:42:32 ◼   ► despite there being sections for their stuff.

00:42:33 ◼   ► So yeah, I hope they work this out

00:42:35 ◼   ► 'cause otherwise it's a pretty nice feature.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Like the UI was pretty straightforward,

00:42:39 ◼   ► which is actually a challenge

00:42:40 ◼   ► because it is a fairly complicated

00:42:43 ◼   ► and setting filled thing to do,

00:42:46 ◼   ► and they've managed to organize it

00:42:47 ◼   ► in a way that I didn't, you know, I didn't have to,

00:42:49 ◼   ► it was pretty obvious to me what was going on,

00:42:52 ◼   ► despite all the screens kind of looking similar

00:42:53 ◼   ► and everything like that.

00:42:54 ◼   ► So it, you know, it's a lot of buttons

00:42:58 ◼   ► and a lot of settings and a lot of semantics

00:42:59 ◼   ► and a lot of information

00:43:00 ◼   ► that they managed to organize in a nice way.

00:43:02 ◼   ► Just need to make it work.

00:43:04 ◼   ► - One of these days,

00:43:05 ◼   ► I don't think we have time for today,

00:43:06 ◼   ► I'd like you to sell me on doing this iCloud family thing,

00:43:09 ◼   ► because--

00:43:10 ◼   ► - I just did, I just sold you on it.

00:43:12 ◼   ► - Oh, geez, do it.

00:43:13 ◼   ► - Well, I don't know, man.

00:43:15 ◼   ► Well, so, okay, fine, I guess we're just gonna

00:43:17 ◼   ► pull on the thread right now.

00:43:18 ◼   ► - Number one, you share purchases.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Number two, you have like, I think you share iCloud storage.

00:43:23 ◼   ► Yeah, you do as of a couple of years ago.

00:43:25 ◼   ► - Consolidate to a single bill.

00:43:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, you single bill,

00:43:28 ◼   ► shared iCloud storage, shared purchases,

00:43:30 ◼   ► although not in-app purchases,

00:43:32 ◼   ► I believe those are still separate.

00:43:33 ◼   ► - Depends on the app.

00:43:34 ◼   ► - Right, so certain types aren't,

00:43:36 ◼   ► but for the most part you're sharing most purchases,

00:43:38 ◼   ► you're sharing media purchases,

00:43:40 ◼   ► and also you have all these parental control things,

00:43:43 ◼   ► so you can do the thing where your kid can ask for a game

00:43:46 ◼   ► and you can approve it and stuff like that.

00:43:48 ◼   ► It's really nice, I strongly,

00:43:50 ◼   ► and as far as I can tell, we set it up for our family,

00:43:53 ◼   ► I think about a year after it launched,

00:43:54 ◼   ► so like a few years back,

00:43:56 ◼   ► as far as I can tell, there's no downsides.

00:43:57 ◼   ► I don't think anything has gone wrong

00:43:59 ◼   ► or is worse off since we set it up, it's wonderful.

00:44:03 ◼   ► - You also get automatic location sharing,

00:44:05 ◼   ► and you can prevent the kids from turning off location sharing

00:44:08 ◼   ► like there's all sorts of controls and conveniences

00:44:11 ◼   ► because if you have a family like,

00:44:13 ◼   ► oh, we all share our location with each other

00:44:15 ◼   ► in perpetuity, but if you're all in the same family,

00:44:17 ◼   ► you don't even have to set that up,

00:44:18 ◼   ► just they show up and you're find my friends

00:44:20 ◼   ► 'cause they're part of your family all the time.

00:44:22 ◼   ► - Interesting, yeah, the way we've had it

00:44:24 ◼   ► and have run this way since both of us got iPhones,

00:44:26 ◼   ► and remember, Declan has an iPad

00:44:29 ◼   ► that's kind of dedicated to him,

00:44:30 ◼   ► but basically it's just a Daniel Tiger device.

00:44:32 ◼   ► Like he almost never uses it outside of long car trips,

00:44:35 ◼   ► and basically the only thing he uses on it is Plex,

00:44:38 ◼   ► so this isn't really relevant in traditional.

00:44:40 ◼   ► - He's your son, all right.

00:44:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, right, exactly.

00:44:42 ◼   ► - Of course he's in Plex.

00:44:44 ◼   ► - Of course he is.

00:44:44 ◼   ► - It'll be relevant faster than you think it will.

00:44:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I agree,

00:44:48 ◼   ► and so this is really today only about Aaron and me,

00:44:51 ◼   ► and the way we've run it is the trick

00:44:52 ◼   ► that a lot of people discovered by accident,

00:44:54 ◼   ► which was different iCloud accounts

00:44:56 ◼   ► with the same Apple Store account,

00:44:58 ◼   ► so we're using my Apple Store account,

00:45:00 ◼   ► but different iCloud accounts,

00:45:02 ◼   ► and to be honest, that's generally worked pretty well for us,

00:45:04 ◼   ► but I know I'm gonna have to pull this,

00:45:07 ◼   ► rip this Band-Aid off sooner rather than later,

00:45:09 ◼   ► to your point, Jon,

00:45:10 ◼   ► so it's not ruinous to do the switch from--

00:45:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, even just for you and Aaron,

00:45:15 ◼   ► you don't lose anything by doing this,

00:45:17 ◼   ► because if you're in the same family,

00:45:18 ◼   ► she can still use all of your purchases.

00:45:22 ◼   ► Again, plus or minus the in-app purchases,

00:45:24 ◼   ► I don't know how many of those you have,

00:45:25 ◼   ► and it might be annoying to have to repurchase them

00:45:27 ◼   ► or whatever, but the sooner you cleanly separate

00:45:30 ◼   ► into your own Apple IDs, the simpler things become,

00:45:34 ◼   ► I feel like, and I was also worried about,

00:45:38 ◼   ► oh, am I gonna have to rebuy anything,

00:45:39 ◼   ► but in practice, I don't think we had to rebuy anything,

00:45:42 ◼   ► maybe it's 'cause we don't do many in-app purchases,

00:45:43 ◼   ► but yeah, separating into separate IDs across everything,

00:45:48 ◼   ► but being in the same family gives you most of the benefits

00:45:51 ◼   ► and it's just cleaner, and that part, all that stuff,

00:45:54 ◼   ► the purchase approval and everything,

00:45:55 ◼   ► that's, again, it's not part of screen time,

00:45:56 ◼   ► that stuff isn't really buggy.

00:45:58 ◼   ► It was buggy in the beginning,

00:46:00 ◼   ► but it's been around for years now,

00:46:01 ◼   ► so most of the kinks are worked out,

00:46:03 ◼   ► or if they're not worked out, occasionally you get

00:46:06 ◼   ► some weirdness on the Mac where you can see

00:46:08 ◼   ► the same family stuff, but occasionally it gets

00:46:11 ◼   ► a little fidgety over there.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Usually you can solve it just by signing out

00:46:16 ◼   ► and back into iCloud, I don't know, it's the same thing.

00:46:19 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's true of any stuff.

00:46:22 ◼   ► I'd imagine this, I don't think I mentioned this

00:46:24 ◼   ► on the show, but my contacts stuff is back to not syncing.

00:46:29 ◼   ► It's really annoying me.

00:46:29 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:46:31 ◼   ► - I went through, I was looking at,

00:46:33 ◼   ► I was on the Mac for whatever reason,

00:46:34 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, I have all these, here's what it was,

00:46:37 ◼   ► it was like after Mike's wedding,

00:46:40 ◼   ► I had all these pictures of people I knew, computer people,

00:46:44 ◼   ► like you guys and Mike and all this,

00:46:46 ◼   ► I had recent photos of them.

00:46:48 ◼   ► - I love that we're computer people.

00:46:49 ◼   ► - And so I needed to update the contact pictures,

00:46:52 ◼   ► because previously I had for Mike,

00:46:54 ◼   ► I had like a, I don't know where I got the picture from,

00:46:56 ◼   ► I probably just Googled for his name and pulled the picture,

00:46:58 ◼   ► or maybe I used like his Twitter avatar or something,

00:47:00 ◼   ► but they were old, they were old pictures,

00:47:01 ◼   ► and here I had pictures that I'd taken

00:47:03 ◼   ► that I liked of these people,

00:47:04 ◼   ► I'm gonna replace their contact pictures

00:47:05 ◼   ► so they show up nicely in my messages list or whatever.

00:47:08 ◼   ► And so I go and I paste, I figure out,

00:47:10 ◼   ► using the Mac contacts app, what it wants me to do,

00:47:13 ◼   ► get stupid image in there,

00:47:13 ◼   ► because you used to be able to just drag it,

00:47:15 ◼   ► but now you have to do some other dance.

00:47:16 ◼   ► And anyway, I get the image in there,

00:47:18 ◼   ► I crop it to the right size, I blah, blah, blah,

00:47:21 ◼   ► and I do this for like four or five contacts.

00:47:24 ◼   ► I think I might've updated both of yours, I forget.

00:47:27 ◼   ► Marco's got his ancient picture,

00:47:28 ◼   ► but he basically looks the same.

00:47:29 ◼   ► So I know I did update Marco's,

00:47:30 ◼   ► he's got a beardy Marco now.

00:47:31 ◼   ► I got a beardy Marco.

00:47:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I look totally different.

00:47:34 ◼   ► - Well, but it's just the thing,

00:47:35 ◼   ► like the reason I don't remember this

00:47:37 ◼   ► is because I did all this work on the Mac,

00:47:39 ◼   ► and then I noticed the next day,

00:47:41 ◼   ► none of that stuff was on my phone or my iPad.

00:47:44 ◼   ► Like what the hell?

00:47:44 ◼   ► Like I spent all that time doing these pictures.

00:47:46 ◼   ► And so then I'm going back to the Mac

00:47:49 ◼   ► and like turning off contact syncing and turning it back on

00:47:52 ◼   ► and just trying to like do anything I can.

00:47:53 ◼   ► It's just, I cannot get anything I do on my Mac

00:47:56 ◼   ► to appear on any of my iOS devices

00:47:58 ◼   ► or on any of my other Macs.

00:48:00 ◼   ► I haven't tried it in Mojave yet,

00:48:03 ◼   ► but it's something used to frustrate me.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Like there's like nothing I can do.

00:48:07 ◼   ► There's no like, please sync it now.

00:48:09 ◼   ► Like see this contact image?

00:48:11 ◼   ► I'm holding my phone next to the screen.

00:48:12 ◼   ► It's the same contact.

00:48:13 ◼   ► It has the different image, it's the old one.

00:48:15 ◼   ► Same thing with it changing any other contact info,

00:48:17 ◼   ► like adding a new email address or phone number.

00:48:20 ◼   ► It's very, very frustrating.

00:48:22 ◼   ► And I felt like, how are we past this now?

00:48:24 ◼   ► Can't we get contacts to sync successfully?

00:48:26 ◼   ► Every once in a while, my computer just says no.

00:48:30 ◼   ► - Maybe it's 'cause it's too old.

00:48:31 ◼   ► - Hey, you should get a new one.

00:48:32 ◼   ► No, this is my wife's computer.

00:48:33 ◼   ► It's a 5K iMac running Mojave.

00:48:34 ◼   ► Everything is latest, latest, everything.

00:48:36 ◼   ► It's not like there's no excuse.

00:48:38 ◼   ► No, sync is hard.

00:48:39 ◼   ► That's a big excuse.

00:48:40 ◼   ► Sync is really hard.

00:48:41 ◼   ► I just want something to happen.

00:48:43 ◼   ► I want to do something on my Mac

00:48:45 ◼   ► and see something happen elsewhere.

00:48:46 ◼   ► Put it in a duplicate contact.

00:48:47 ◼   ► I don't care.

00:48:48 ◼   ► I just want to see something happen to acknowledge.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I'm doing, especially I'd spent so long,

00:48:52 ◼   ► like carefully finding all the images and cropping them

00:48:55 ◼   ► and being careful not that they're too big as it chokes

00:48:57 ◼   ► if you just like take a giant, you know,

00:48:59 ◼   ► 20 something megapixel image,

00:49:00 ◼   ► chuck it on the thing and try to crop it to the head.

00:49:02 ◼   ► It freaks out, right?

00:49:03 ◼   ► So I'm making small versions of things.

00:49:05 ◼   ► In the end, because I had done it once and it had annoyed me,

00:49:08 ◼   ► the second time I did it, I made a little folder

00:49:10 ◼   ► that I call contact photos.

00:49:12 ◼   ► And I put the contact photos suitable for dragging

00:49:15 ◼   ► into contacts in that folder.

00:49:16 ◼   ► And then I put it in my Dropbox.

00:49:18 ◼   ► So the 900 other times I try to do this,

00:49:20 ◼   ► I have a ready-made bin of all your heads.

00:49:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:25 ◼   ► Throw on the stuff.

00:49:27 ◼   ► Let me look at my, I haven't looked lately.

00:49:28 ◼   ► This was actually like, you know,

00:49:29 ◼   ► it was actually a primo hobby,

00:49:30 ◼   ► but I haven't looked lately to see

00:49:33 ◼   ► what my contact situation is like.

00:49:34 ◼   ► Let me see.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Is Marco beardy?

00:49:37 ◼   ► That is the question.

00:49:38 ◼   ► Hey, I got beardy Marco.

00:49:41 ◼   ► I think it's because I did it on my phone

00:49:42 ◼   ► as one of my ninth or 10th times.

00:49:45 ◼   ► Yep, I think I used the one that you have

00:49:47 ◼   ► for your Twitter avatar picture maybe.

00:49:49 ◼   ► - You took that picture.

00:49:50 ◼   ► - I took all these pictures.

00:49:51 ◼   ► It's from my photo library.

00:49:52 ◼   ► But yeah, I was pulling pictures from my photo library.

00:49:56 ◼   ► I think I just happened to pick the same one

00:49:57 ◼   ► that you picked from like WWC or whatever.

00:49:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it's frustrating.

00:50:02 ◼   ► And the main reason I'm doing that though,

00:50:04 ◼   ► is because you ever get that thing where like,

00:50:07 ◼   ► I don't know if you guys run messages on your Mac a lot,

00:50:09 ◼   ► but I do, 'cause you know, guy.

00:50:12 ◼   ► And the window just sits there.

00:50:14 ◼   ► It's just sitting in the background

00:50:15 ◼   ► and every once in a while you look at the window

00:50:17 ◼   ► and along the left sidebar of the thing,

00:50:19 ◼   ► you'll see the avatar image

00:50:22 ◼   ► of all the people you're talking to.

00:50:23 ◼   ► Or the last five or 10,

00:50:25 ◼   ► or depending on the size of your window,

00:50:27 ◼   ► the people you talk to.

00:50:28 ◼   ► And first of all, if one of them has no icon,

00:50:30 ◼   ► they're just like the silhouette, that looks bad.

00:50:32 ◼   ► You're like, oh, that person needs an icon.

00:50:33 ◼   ► Like, why doesn't that person have an icon?

00:50:35 ◼   ► I've known that person for 20 years.

00:50:36 ◼   ► They have no icon, that's bad.

00:50:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:50:39 ◼   ► And second of all, if you look at it

00:50:41 ◼   ► and it's like a picture of somebody,

00:50:42 ◼   ► it's like a bad blurry picture.

00:50:44 ◼   ► It's like 64 by 64 pixel image stretched out

00:50:47 ◼   ► and looking all gross.

00:50:48 ◼   ► It's like their aim icon from 1993 or something.

00:50:51 ◼   ► You're like, I need to fix that.

00:50:53 ◼   ► And it uses the contact images.

00:50:54 ◼   ► So then you go to their contact and you add a picture.

00:50:56 ◼   ► And what you want is a messages list that you look at

00:50:58 ◼   ► and you're like, yeah, I recognize all those people.

00:51:00 ◼   ► And those are the people I talk to and they look nice.

00:51:03 ◼   ► And you know, so that's what motivates this.

00:51:07 ◼   ► My anal retentiveness to have a,

00:51:10 ◼   ► to wanna have a pleasing sidebar,

00:51:13 ◼   ► partially inspired probably by like all my screenshotting

00:51:15 ◼   ► and OS 10 reviews, that you would never take a screenshot

00:51:18 ◼   ► where the sidebar didn't have like beautiful

00:51:20 ◼   ► professional photos of everyone you communicate with.

00:51:23 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:51:23 ◼   ► - And there's no like embarrassing message.

00:51:25 ◼   ► That's the thing that always about messages.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Next to the avatar, it shows the name and the date.

00:51:30 ◼   ► And then it shows the last line of text

00:51:33 ◼   ► that was in that conversation.

00:51:35 ◼   ► But the last line of text may not have been spoken

00:51:37 ◼   ► by the person whose image is there.

00:51:39 ◼   ► It may have been the last line you sent to them.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:51:43 ◼   ► - And so sometimes it makes it look like, you know,

00:51:45 ◼   ► your wife is saying something that you said

00:51:48 ◼   ► because it's her image next to the last sentence

00:51:51 ◼   ► you wrote to her.

00:51:52 ◼   ► So it's still not a great interface.

00:51:54 ◼   ► Anyway, everyone's got pictures of my stuff.

00:51:55 ◼   ► - Well, but no, but you can collapse that though.

00:51:57 ◼   ► - You can get rid of it.

00:51:58 ◼   ► Yeah, you can get rid of the whole sidebar, but like.

00:52:00 ◼   ► - No, no, no, you can get to go to just icons.

00:52:02 ◼   ► So it's just heads.

00:52:04 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:52:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, what kind of monster leaves the like one line

00:52:06 ◼   ► of most recently said?

00:52:07 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no.

00:52:08 ◼   ► - Sometimes that's all I can see in the window

00:52:10 ◼   ► and I will only be able to see that

00:52:11 ◼   ► when the last line is from them,

00:52:12 ◼   ► I think it's relevant information.

00:52:13 ◼   ► And I also want to see the date.

00:52:15 ◼   ► - That's what I'm saying.

00:52:16 ◼   ► There's two modes of the sidebar.

00:52:18 ◼   ► There's show me the last line in addition to their avatar

00:52:21 ◼   ► and just the avatars.

00:52:23 ◼   ► - Really, I'm always in last line, like a chump mode.

00:52:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, that is like a chump mode.

00:52:27 ◼   ► You just, in the divider between the sidebar

00:52:31 ◼   ► and the actual messages pane,

00:52:33 ◼   ► slide that bad boy to the left.

00:52:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I think it's sort of the dates too.

00:52:36 ◼   ► I want to see the last line when it's from them.

00:52:38 ◼   ► It reminds me of the context of the conversation.

00:52:40 ◼   ► - Oh, that's weird.

00:52:41 ◼   ► No, I don't like, and it has their name too.

00:52:43 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Nah, screw that.

00:52:44 ◼   ► - No, this is the way to go.

00:52:46 ◼   ► - How am I going to know

00:52:47 ◼   ► what two factor verification looks like?

00:52:49 ◼   ► This is another context tip

00:52:50 ◼   ► while we're in the context tip section of the thing.

00:52:52 ◼   ► Every time you get a two factor thing,

00:52:55 ◼   ► which everyone's saying you shouldn't do

00:52:56 ◼   ► over SMS anymore anyway, but anyway,

00:52:57 ◼   ► if you still have some services

00:52:58 ◼   ► where you're getting two factor or SMS,

00:53:01 ◼   ► every time you get one of those,

00:53:03 ◼   ► add that phone number to a single contact

00:53:04 ◼   ► that you call two factor verification or something similar.

00:53:07 ◼   ► So then when it comes in, you don't see like,

00:53:09 ◼   ► what is this random text from?

00:53:10 ◼   ► Oh, it's a two factor thing.

00:53:11 ◼   ► It'll come in as two factor verification.

00:53:13 ◼   ► And it's not a random number every time.

00:53:15 ◼   ► After you've added like the five or six common numbers

00:53:17 ◼   ► that you get stuff from, that's it.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Like, you know.

00:53:22 ◼   ► - That's a really good idea.

00:53:24 ◼   ► - It's just like saying,

00:53:25 ◼   ► I haven't gotten to the point where I've given it an icon,

00:53:27 ◼   ► but it's only like, how many icons are Mr. Two Factor?

00:53:31 ◼   ► Details.

00:53:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:53:33 ◼   ► One, two, three, four, five.

00:53:34 ◼   ► Only five phone numbers covers everything.

00:53:37 ◼   ► Granted, I'm trying to move away from SMS for a two factor,

00:53:40 ◼   ► but many services, it's still the only thing they offer.

00:53:43 ◼   ► Sony, PlayStation.

00:53:45 ◼   ► So.

00:53:45 ◼   ► - Well, you know, Sony is really known

00:53:46 ◼   ► for their incredible online security.

00:53:48 ◼   ► - That's why I'm able two factor.

00:53:50 ◼   ► Like, my PlayStation account is one of the accounts

00:53:54 ◼   ► I care the most about, because someone got into there

00:53:56 ◼   ► and like deleted all my Destiny characters or whatever.

00:53:59 ◼   ► That would be more disastrous than deleting all of my photos

00:54:04 ◼   ► because I have backups of the photos.

00:54:06 ◼   ► - You'd rather have somebody come in

00:54:07 ◼   ► and delete all your family pictures than your Destiny account.

00:54:09 ◼   ► - Because I have a hundred backups of those.

00:54:11 ◼   ► How many backups do I have of my PlayStation data?

00:54:14 ◼   ► None.

00:54:15 ◼   ► It's like that thing I tweeted the picture of before

00:54:17 ◼   ► that Nintendo finally has an online backup of Switch data.

00:54:20 ◼   ► And it's like, oh, finally,

00:54:21 ◼   ► because like my data was tied to my specific Switch.

00:54:24 ◼   ► And if I dropped it and cracked it in half, that's it.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Like I said, I'd send it away to Nintendo.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Like, oh, well, we'll just give you a new one.

00:54:30 ◼   ► What about my saved data?

00:54:31 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:54:33 ◼   ► - I gotta do that.

00:54:33 ◼   ► - So now I have an online backup of that too.

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00:56:11 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:56:14 ◼   ► - I have a hopefully quickie about a new Apple feature

00:56:17 ◼   ► that mostly works well and I really love

00:56:19 ◼   ► even though I thought it was both hilarious and stupid

00:56:22 ◼   ► when I saw it during the keynote.

00:56:23 ◼   ► And that is Apple Watch walkie talkie mode.

00:56:26 ◼   ► I did not understand the point to this

00:56:28 ◼   ► up until a couple of days ago.

00:56:30 ◼   ► And now it's like my new favorite thing.

00:56:32 ◼   ► And this is if you have two people with an Apple Watch

00:56:35 ◼   ► on watchOS 5, there is a new app called walkie talkie.

00:56:40 ◼   ► And you can go into that app and you can invite people

00:56:43 ◼   ► to join walkie talkie mode with you.

00:56:46 ◼   ► And then like the Hellscape was that was the late 90s

00:56:50 ◼   ► and next tell push to talk phones,

00:56:52 ◼   ► which were very popular in the Northeast.

00:56:54 ◼   ► I don't know if they were popular anywhere else.

00:56:56 ◼   ► But you can just drop in on somebody's world

00:56:58 ◼   ► and send them a, well, talk to them.

00:57:00 ◼   ► Like you actually broadcast a verbal message

00:57:03 ◼   ► from their wrist, which sounds freaking terrible.

00:57:07 ◼   ► But if you say have a partner that you live with

00:57:11 ◼   ► and if you say have one or more children

00:57:14 ◼   ► that you live with, it is amazing.

00:57:16 ◼   ► Because in the past, I would grab my phone

00:57:20 ◼   ► and type out a message to Aaron like,

00:57:21 ◼   ► hey, can you bring me a bottle?

00:57:23 ◼   ► Or hey, can you help me do this?

00:57:25 ◼   ► Or hey, Declan is really hungry.

00:57:28 ◼   ► What did you give him for snack earlier

00:57:29 ◼   ► so I don't give him the same thing again

00:57:31 ◼   ► or whatever the case may be?

00:57:32 ◼   ► And now I can just bloop on my watch

00:57:35 ◼   ► and we can get through this conversation so much quicker,

00:57:37 ◼   ► no typing involved.

00:57:39 ◼   ► - I'm so glad I don't have this

00:57:40 ◼   ► because all I would hear is,

00:57:41 ◼   ► dad, answer the request on your phone.

00:57:43 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:57:45 ◼   ► I just wanna hear now, but at least it's yelled

00:57:46 ◼   ► from upstairs instead of actually coming out of my wrist.

00:57:49 ◼   ► Approve my request.

00:57:50 ◼   ► - You don't have to add your children as people.

00:57:53 ◼   ► - Come out of your drawer, let's be honest.

00:57:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true too.

00:57:56 ◼   ► It would absolutely come out of your drawer.

00:57:57 ◼   ► I think that for most use cases,

00:58:00 ◼   ► like when we all looked at the,

00:58:02 ◼   ► what do they call it, digital touch?

00:58:05 ◼   ► When the watch first came out and everyone was like,

00:58:07 ◼   ► dudes, people, Apple people.

00:58:09 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:58:11 ◼   ► That's not what we want.

00:58:12 ◼   ► And generally speaking, I think that's applicable

00:58:14 ◼   ► for this walkie talkie mode, but holy crap,

00:58:16 ◼   ► to get Aaron and I to have a quick two second conversation,

00:58:20 ◼   ► typically involving some child related issue,

00:58:22 ◼   ► it is great and I love it.

00:58:24 ◼   ► And I just wanted to put a little word out for everyone

00:58:28 ◼   ► because we tried it kind of on a whim

00:58:30 ◼   ► when we were at the beach over the weekend

00:58:32 ◼   ► and it was great.

00:58:33 ◼   ► It worked really, really well

00:58:34 ◼   ► and I'm really, really happy about it.

00:58:36 ◼   ► So if you have a similar situation,

00:58:38 ◼   ► you should give it a shot.

00:58:39 ◼   ► - I feel you're missing the simple joy

00:58:40 ◼   ► of yelling across the house to each other.

00:58:42 ◼   ► - Well, no, and we do that from time to time,

00:58:45 ◼   ► but oftentimes if we're gonna do this walkie talkie thing,

00:58:47 ◼   ► it's because one of us is upstairs

00:58:48 ◼   ► and the other downstairs.

00:58:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a big part of being a family

00:58:51 ◼   ► is yelling across floors of a house.

00:58:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:58:54 ◼   ► And I mean, our house is not particularly big.

00:58:56 ◼   ► It's an at best average size house,

00:58:58 ◼   ► but it's big enough that yelling between floors

00:59:02 ◼   ► is not particularly fun nor conducive.

00:59:04 ◼   ► And we only have one echo in the house,

00:59:06 ◼   ► so we can't do any sort of like,

00:59:07 ◼   ► what does that drop in or whatever it's called.

00:59:10 ◼   ► So this is the best thing that we have available to us.

00:59:13 ◼   ► And it's funny because it's kind of like coming full circle.

00:59:16 ◼   ► I remember as a kid, my family built a house,

00:59:20 ◼   ► gosh, how old was I?

00:59:22 ◼   ► Maybe eight or 10 or something like that.

00:59:24 ◼   ► And it had one of those in-home intercom systems,

00:59:26 ◼   ► which were super popular in the day.

00:59:27 ◼   ► - Those were so fancy.

00:59:29 ◼   ► - They were so cool.

00:59:30 ◼   ► - I was just about to mention this.

00:59:31 ◼   ► So I was gonna mention it

00:59:33 ◼   ► in a very unflattering context though.

00:59:35 ◼   ► - Well, it was so cool, but they were pieces of trash,

00:59:39 ◼   ► but it was amazing 'cause you could play FM radio

00:59:41 ◼   ► throughout the house 'cause that's what people wanted.

00:59:43 ◼   ► But anyway, I just thought we had made it as a family.

00:59:46 ◼   ► And again, our house was not particularly large.

00:59:48 ◼   ► It was an average sized home, but we built it

00:59:50 ◼   ► and we had our little intercom system.

00:59:53 ◼   ► And I think we also had a urinal in the basement,

00:59:55 ◼   ► which was amazing, but that's a story for another day.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:59:58 ◼   ► - First time anybody's ever said a urinal's amazing.

01:00:01 ◼   ► - I'm telling you, put one in your house

01:00:02 ◼   ► and see what you think.

01:00:03 ◼   ► - They are amazing. - See what you think.

01:00:05 ◼   ► But yeah, so having that intercom

01:00:06 ◼   ► we thought was the coolest thing in the world.

01:00:08 ◼   ► And it lasted like a month.

01:00:10 ◼   ► - I love that you had the air.

01:00:12 ◼   ► It's like, that was like the coolest thing in the world

01:00:14 ◼   ► in like 1992 or something.

01:00:15 ◼   ► And like never--

01:00:16 ◼   ► - It's exactly what I'm talking about.

01:00:18 ◼   ► - So it's not a '90s thing, it's an '80s thing.

01:00:20 ◼   ► - So the thing that's relevant to my life

01:00:23 ◼   ► that I was gonna say about that

01:00:24 ◼   ► before Casey even began that story

01:00:25 ◼   ► was like the house that we run on Long Island

01:00:27 ◼   ► was renovated in the '80s.

01:00:29 ◼   ► So Long Island house renovated in the '80s by rich people.

01:00:33 ◼   ► So it has, of course, it has an in-home intercom.

01:00:36 ◼   ► It also has central vacuum and it also has--

01:00:38 ◼   ► - Yes, I was gonna mention central vacuuming.

01:00:40 ◼   ► - That's another good one, that's true.

01:00:42 ◼   ► - I had this one rich friend who had all this stuff

01:00:44 ◼   ► and the two things I was gonna mention

01:00:46 ◼   ► were the intercom and the central vacuuming.

01:00:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, it's actually a third one,

01:00:50 ◼   ► which I think might be part of the intercom system,

01:00:52 ◼   ► but it's also, I don't know if it was Bang & Olufsen,

01:00:55 ◼   ► but it was similar, it was like built into the wall

01:00:59 ◼   ► a dual cassette stereo system, like built into the wall,

01:01:04 ◼   ► like flush with like a wood grain thing or whatever.

01:01:06 ◼   ► I think it might've been part of the intercom,

01:01:08 ◼   ► but they have one of those too.

01:01:09 ◼   ► But here's the thing about the intercom,

01:01:11 ◼   ► the whole house intercom, the way it manifested itself

01:01:14 ◼   ► throughout the house was, you know,

01:01:17 ◼   ► 'cause it was like you'd push a button and talk

01:01:19 ◼   ► and you could hear this, it was like terrible quality,

01:01:21 ◼   ► it was RF or whatever.

01:01:23 ◼   ► It's like, I kid you not, 16 inch by 16 inch square

01:01:28 ◼   ► fake wood panels, they're huge,

01:01:33 ◼   ► they're bigger than 12 by 12, they're probably 16 by 16,

01:01:36 ◼   ► they're plastic slats, like blinds or whatever,

01:01:41 ◼   ► like, I don't know, what are the horizontal blinds

01:01:45 ◼   ► called made out of wood, but it's plastic with wood grain

01:01:47 ◼   ► on it and it's a big square and then there's a circle

01:01:50 ◼   ► inside the square that's gigantic,

01:01:52 ◼   ► it's like bigger than a subwoofer,

01:01:53 ◼   ► it's like the biggest supposed, inside it's probably

01:01:56 ◼   ► this tiny little four inch, you know, speaker thing in it.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And then all these buttons lined up on it

01:02:01 ◼   ► and you'd talk across the house.

01:02:02 ◼   ► Now, my family was a rich family in the 80s,

01:02:06 ◼   ► but not quite that rich, so we bought from Radio Shack

01:02:10 ◼   ► these little realistic home intercoms things.

01:02:13 ◼   ► - This vaguely rings a bell.

01:02:15 ◼   ► - They were beige, they were like maybe like as big

01:02:19 ◼   ► as an iPhone, 10S Max, but of course like, you know,

01:02:23 ◼   ► seven times as thick and they had a big button on them

01:02:26 ◼   ► and you would press the button down and you would talk

01:02:28 ◼   ► and it would broadcast into horrible fidelity

01:02:30 ◼   ► throughout the house in theory.

01:02:32 ◼   ► And there was the idea to stop us from yelling

01:02:36 ◼   ► through the house, but the sound quality was so bad

01:02:38 ◼   ► and you'd end up yelling into the intercom

01:02:39 ◼   ► and you could hear them like not on the intercom.

01:02:41 ◼   ► I don't know why we kept them for as long as we did,

01:02:43 ◼   ► but we did have them in the house and they're mostly useless.

01:02:45 ◼   ► We've never used the ones in the vacation house,

01:02:47 ◼   ► but they're there.

01:02:49 ◼   ► - So, I mean, this is the most pathetic contest ever,

01:02:54 ◼   ► but my rich friends intercoms were fancier than yours.

01:02:56 ◼   ► Because it was just, it was basically a phone system.

01:03:00 ◼   ► It was like an office phone system.

01:03:01 ◼   ► Like, each room had a wired like office phone in it,

01:03:04 ◼   ► basically, even like the kids' bedrooms

01:03:06 ◼   ► had wired office phones in them and you could use those.

01:03:09 ◼   ► So because everything was wired over the phone system,

01:03:12 ◼   ► it was perfectly clear just like an office phone would be.

01:03:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, the cheaper ones are RF.

01:03:16 ◼   ► Yeah, they were bad.

01:03:17 ◼   ► - A user in the chat says, "I was born in 1991.

01:03:20 ◼   ► "What the hell are they talking about?"

01:03:23 ◼   ► So the intercom system, imagine there was like

01:03:26 ◼   ► this big control panel typically in the kitchen,

01:03:29 ◼   ► which was like literally two or three feet wide

01:03:31 ◼   ► and like a foot or two tall,

01:03:33 ◼   ► where you could speak into it and little,

01:03:37 ◼   ► well, not actually that little per Jon's conversation,

01:03:39 ◼   ► but comparatively little boxes in every room

01:03:43 ◼   ► would wake up and broadcast the message

01:03:46 ◼   ► that you just said in the kitchen.

01:03:47 ◼   ► So a great example of this is mom or dad says,

01:03:49 ◼   ► "Hey, dinner's ready, come downstairs."

01:03:52 ◼   ► So you walk up to the intercom box, which is massive,

01:03:55 ◼   ► and you hit a button and you say, "Hey, dinner's ready."

01:03:58 ◼   ► And then all of the rooms in the house get that message.

01:04:00 ◼   ► "Hey, dinner's ready."

01:04:01 ◼   ► And that was extremely cool in the,

01:04:04 ◼   ► apparently anywhere from as early as the '70s

01:04:06 ◼   ► all the way through the like early to mid '90s.

01:04:10 ◼   ► They were typically pieces of garbage.

01:04:12 ◼   ► They typically toward the end of the era

01:04:14 ◼   ► would allow you to do FM radio,

01:04:16 ◼   ► like I was talking about earlier,

01:04:17 ◼   ► so you could put on radio throughout the house.

01:04:19 ◼   ► And these were the crappiest speakers known to man,

01:04:22 ◼   ► so it sounded hilariously bad,

01:04:24 ◼   ► probably no better than an iPhone, if not worse.

01:04:27 ◼   ► But they were a sign of someone that was typically

01:04:31 ◼   ► at least slightly well-to-do.

01:04:32 ◼   ► - I've never seen, the kind of intercom system

01:04:35 ◼   ► you're describing, I've never seen it.

01:04:36 ◼   ► I've only seen the one at my friend's house

01:04:38 ◼   ► that was basically an office phone system

01:04:39 ◼   ► installed in their house.

01:04:40 ◼   ► - I put a link in the chat room to,

01:04:43 ◼   ► it's not the exact one that we have,

01:04:44 ◼   ► but it's a similar design.

01:04:45 ◼   ► - Oh, I remember this.

01:04:46 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:47 ◼   ► - See how big that is?

01:04:48 ◼   ► Like, oh yeah.

01:04:49 ◼   ► - Yep, I hear you.

01:04:50 ◼   ► - And imagine a panel that size in like every room.

01:04:53 ◼   ► - So the central vacuum, what that is,

01:04:55 ◼   ► is imagine you had like this big tall canister somewhere,

01:04:59 ◼   ► typically a basement or a garage,

01:05:01 ◼   ► and then you had--

01:05:02 ◼   ► - It's called a vacuum.

01:05:03 ◼   ► - Hoses, yeah, it's called a vacuum, who knew?

01:05:05 ◼   ► But no, it's larger, or at least the one we had

01:05:09 ◼   ► in the house that I kind of sort of grew up in,

01:05:12 ◼   ► 'cause we had central vac and that.

01:05:13 ◼   ► We did not have an intercom.

01:05:14 ◼   ► - You had a central vac.

01:05:15 ◼   ► - We did, we did.

01:05:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:17 ◼   ► But anyways, so there's hoses running throughout the home,

01:05:20 ◼   ► like you don't see them, they're in the walls,

01:05:21 ◼   ► but all running back to that vacuum.

01:05:22 ◼   ► So you could plug in, so you take a hose,

01:05:27 ◼   ► and you can bring it to any room

01:05:28 ◼   ► and plug the hose into the wall,

01:05:30 ◼   ► and suddenly you have a vacuum in that room.

01:05:32 ◼   ► And it actually is very cool.

01:05:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, you basically have outlets that suck.

01:05:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, that's exactly right.

01:05:38 ◼   ► - There's outlets near the floor level usually

01:05:40 ◼   ► that are just suction outlets,

01:05:42 ◼   ► and you plug a hose into it,

01:05:43 ◼   ► and you can have a vacuum anywhere.

01:05:45 ◼   ► But vacuums aren't that hard to carry around,

01:05:47 ◼   ► or it solves a problem in a really crazy way

01:05:52 ◼   ► that isn't that big of a problem to solve the regular way.

01:05:55 ◼   ► - Yep, I mean, it was a neat trick.

01:05:57 ◼   ► And actually, one of the extremely cool things about it is,

01:06:01 ◼   ► actually, I think my brother-in-law's house,

01:06:02 ◼   ► which was built not that terribly long ago, has this.

01:06:06 ◼   ► He has a central vac, but in the kitchen,

01:06:08 ◼   ► he has a little door or something

01:06:10 ◼   ► where you can sweep crumbs into it, you know what I mean?

01:06:14 ◼   ► So it's right at floor level,

01:06:15 ◼   ► and I don't remember how you activate it

01:06:17 ◼   ► to get the sucking to start title,

01:06:20 ◼   ► but you can sweep dust into there,

01:06:24 ◼   ► which is actually pretty cool.

01:06:25 ◼   ► - It's like a built-in dust pan, basically.

01:06:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:29 ◼   ► - None of these things are worth their installation

01:06:32 ◼   ► and maintenance over just having a vac.

01:06:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:06:35 ◼   ► - That's true.

01:06:36 ◼   ► Here's the miraculous thing about them, though.

01:06:38 ◼   ► The fact that they continue to work at all,

01:06:40 ◼   ► because all of the home automation crap

01:06:42 ◼   ► that we're installing now or that people installed

01:06:44 ◼   ► five or 10 years ago is not going to work

01:06:47 ◼   ► when they're 20 years old.

01:06:48 ◼   ► But here's the 1980s stuff that's 20 years old or more.

01:06:52 ◼   ► I mean, it's still just as bad as it ever was,

01:06:54 ◼   ► but it continues to function.

01:06:55 ◼   ► RF continues to be just as bad as it always was.

01:07:02 ◼   ► The size of it becomes more and more hilarious,

01:07:04 ◼   ► because now, again, we got into this,

01:07:05 ◼   ► Casey is talking to his wrist at higher fidelity

01:07:08 ◼   ► than these gigantic panels in every room of the house.

01:07:11 ◼   ► - Yep, and I don't think it's like Bluetooth

01:07:14 ◼   ► or anything like that.

01:07:15 ◼   ► This is getting carried over the internet,

01:07:16 ◼   ► if I'm not mistaken.

01:07:17 ◼   ► So yeah, it must be, because I was walkie-talkie-ing

01:07:20 ◼   ► with Stephen Hackett very, very briefly

01:07:21 ◼   ► when this all first came out.

01:07:23 ◼   ► So yeah, this is going over the internet.

01:07:25 ◼   ► I could talk to Memphis from Richmond more clearly

01:07:29 ◼   ► than I could talk from the downstairs to the upstairs

01:07:31 ◼   ► in a prior home that my family owned.

01:07:34 ◼   ► - Not if he yelled.

01:07:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:36 ◼   ► Yelling is quite clear.

01:07:37 ◼   ► - Touche.

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01:08:58 ◼   ► - All right, let's do some Ask ATP.

01:09:00 ◼   ► Bastian and Inuk--

01:09:01 ◼   ► - Are we really not gonna talk about the Bloomberg thing?

01:09:05 ◼   ► - No, just listen up, great.

01:09:06 ◼   ► He'll be fine, he'll be fine.

01:09:08 ◼   ► - Honestly, I fully support that.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Upgrade covered it really well.

01:09:11 ◼   ► - It's still in the topic list.

01:09:13 ◼   ► It's probably not going away.

01:09:15 ◼   ► We'll have another shot at it next week.

01:09:16 ◼   ► - Just quickly, do you think there's any chance

01:09:19 ◼   ► that Bloomberg is correct?

01:09:21 ◼   ► It seems like there isn't.

01:09:22 ◼   ► It seems like they really have a lot of egg on their face.

01:09:25 ◼   ► - No, they can't be 100% correct

01:09:28 ◼   ► because the claims are so broad

01:09:31 ◼   ► that it would be very easy to find evidence of them

01:09:34 ◼   ► from all the players involved

01:09:35 ◼   ► who are highly motivated to find evidence of them.

01:09:38 ◼   ► So it can't be 100% correct.

01:09:39 ◼   ► Could it be 1% correct?

01:09:40 ◼   ► Sure, there could be a kernel of truth somewhere in here.

01:09:43 ◼   ► But their claims are just so massive

01:09:47 ◼   ► that this is things that happened

01:09:48 ◼   ► and it happened to all these different companies

01:09:51 ◼   ► and all these different people

01:09:52 ◼   ► and confirmed by all these people

01:09:53 ◼   ► and confirmed by this agency and that agency.

01:09:55 ◼   ► And all these people can't be conspiring

01:10:00 ◼   ► to pretend they know nothing about this.

01:10:02 ◼   ► And again, they're fairly highly motivated

01:10:05 ◼   ► to find out if this is true.

01:10:09 ◼   ► I don't think there can be coordination

01:10:12 ◼   ► between all the tech companies

01:10:13 ◼   ► and all the government agencies all got together

01:10:15 ◼   ► and decided we're all gonna get together