ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► This is the beach setup, so it's like, still the iMac Pro.

00:00:03 ◼   ► - Did you use your fancy carrying case again?

00:00:06 ◼   ► - Not only did I use my fancy carrying case,

00:00:07 ◼   ► but I took Underscore's recommendation and added for $35

00:00:12 ◼   ► a wheeled dolly to it, also known as a hand truck.

00:00:16 ◼   ► 'Cause you can get foldable, light duty ones

00:00:20 ◼   ► that weigh like six pounds and fold up to be all flat

00:00:22 ◼   ► and compact for like 35 bucks on Amazon.

00:00:25 ◼   ► So I got one of those, I carried it on the boat

00:00:27 ◼   ► with the dolly in the pocket.

00:00:29 ◼   ► When it came time to carry it off the boat

00:00:31 ◼   ► and walk it to the house like a half mile away,

00:00:34 ◼   ► I just stuck the wheels on.

00:00:35 ◼   ► - Did you discover luggage dollies?

00:00:37 ◼   ► Is that what I'm coming in the middle of here?

00:00:39 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, I discovered dollies.

00:00:41 ◼   ► - I use that one, I think I describe using that

00:00:43 ◼   ► to take my 27 inch Thunderbolt display

00:00:46 ◼   ► to and from the Apple Store like three times.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Remember when I had to do that?

00:00:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, like if I have to take my iMac in again,

00:00:52 ◼   ► 'cause I took my iMac in once before

00:00:54 ◼   ► for the image retention stuff that I had

00:00:55 ◼   ► for the previous iMac, now I will definitely use this

00:00:59 ◼   ► for that as well.

00:01:00 ◼   ► Like this has now made my ridiculous iMac carrying case

00:01:04 ◼   ► a lot more useful because it's just a simple,

00:01:09 ◼   ► I didn't even get the big four wheel kind,

00:01:10 ◼   ► just the basic two wheel kind,

00:01:12 ◼   ► so it would fold up nice and small

00:01:14 ◼   ► and it would be pretty lightweight itself.

00:01:15 ◼   ► I didn't want like an extra 13 pounds of metal

00:01:18 ◼   ► for just this thing to make it easier

00:01:20 ◼   ► for me to carry something,

00:01:21 ◼   ► something smaller and lighter was good.

00:01:23 ◼   ► But yeah, it made it a million times easier.

00:01:25 ◼   ► So now I'm even more a fan of the solution

00:01:29 ◼   ► of bringing my iMac to the beach with wheels now.

00:01:32 ◼   ► And I'm even less leaning in the direction of a Mac Pro now

00:01:37 ◼   ► because the iMac Pro has proven to be such a good solution.

00:01:40 ◼   ► - You didn't even need that fancy case.

00:01:43 ◼   ► I think actually the original box,

00:01:44 ◼   ► if you still had it, is even better

00:01:46 ◼   ► because it's like stiff, you know, so it's good.

00:01:49 ◼   ► What I would use is the little bungee cords or whatever

00:01:52 ◼   ► to wrap over the front of the thing, you know, just.

00:01:54 ◼   ► - Actually, I have the original box.

00:01:56 ◼   ► I didn't bring it, but I do have it.

00:01:58 ◼   ► I also bought a bunch of bungee cords,

00:02:01 ◼   ► but I didn't actually need them

00:02:02 ◼   ► and I sent them home with the next bag

00:02:04 ◼   ► because the carrying case has straps,

00:02:08 ◼   ► like it has like a shoulder strap.

00:02:09 ◼   ► And if I made it, I made the shoulder strap

00:02:11 ◼   ► as small as it goes and that was basically

00:02:13 ◼   ► a perfect strap to go over the handle of the dolly.

00:02:15 ◼   ► So it was very secure.

00:02:17 ◼   ► It didn't wiggle or try to fall off at all.

00:02:20 ◼   ► - Just so we don't get into any corrections,

00:02:22 ◼   ► we should say that dollies have four wheels

00:02:25 ◼   ► and hand trucks have two.

00:02:27 ◼   ► - Okay, so what I have is a hand truck then.

00:02:29 ◼   ► - But I think everyone just calls them dollies

00:02:31 ◼   ► and we all know what we're talking about,

00:02:32 ◼   ► but the pendants will be out and say,

00:02:34 ◼   ► technically, that's a hand truck.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Can you, did you already put a link to your thing?

00:02:39 ◼   ► 'Cause when we're talking about things for luggage size,

00:02:41 ◼   ► it's different than the other thing anyway,

00:02:42 ◼   ► but so maybe they have a different name when they're small.

00:02:45 ◼   ► - It was the one that Amazon sent was the best one.

00:02:48 ◼   ► - Mine is like super old.

00:02:49 ◼   ► I think it's mine is from the days before luggage had wheels.

00:02:52 ◼   ► Do you guys remember that or you old enough to remember

00:02:54 ◼   ► before luggage had wheels?

00:02:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:02:56 ◼   ► - I didn't have wheeled luggage until a few years ago.

00:02:58 ◼   ► - Few years ago, anyway.

00:02:59 ◼   ► I thought that wheeled luggage came in

00:03:01 ◼   ► sometime around my childhood,

00:03:03 ◼   ► but before that we had tons of suitcases

00:03:04 ◼   ► that just had one handle on one side of them and that's it.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Oh, these are very fancy, you know.

00:03:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is the Magna Carte Personal,

00:03:12 ◼   ► 150 pound capacity aluminum folding hand truck,

00:03:14 ◼   ► black and red, $29.99,

00:03:16 ◼   ► and it only weighs about six pounds.

00:03:18 ◼   ► It's great and it collapses.

00:03:20 ◼   ► It's really nice.

00:03:21 ◼   ► - That's way more complicated than the one I have.

00:03:23 ◼   ► The one I have is like one half that number of parts,

00:03:25 ◼   ► but it's the same thing.

00:03:26 ◼   ► It's a metal frame with a fold down flap and two wheels,

00:03:29 ◼   ► so it's not much to it.

00:03:30 ◼   ► - And the wheels are rubberized,

00:03:32 ◼   ► so it moves really nicely.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I was surprised how nice it was

00:03:36 ◼   ► for how little it weighed and how little it cost.

00:03:39 ◼   ► - Well, I am glad that you are in paradise

00:03:41 ◼   ► on your beloved computer.

00:03:43 ◼   ► You really think you're not gonna buy at least one Mac Pro?

00:03:46 ◼   ► - I mean, look, never say never, but,

00:03:48 ◼   ► and some people have suggested what seems like

00:03:52 ◼   ► an obvious idea is leave the iMac Pro at the beach

00:03:56 ◼   ► and buy a new Mac Pro for home.

00:03:58 ◼   ► And that's, like, I can, you know,

00:04:00 ◼   ► if I really want to do that, like, I could do that,

00:04:03 ◼   ► but it just seems wasteful.

00:04:05 ◼   ► It seems like--

00:04:06 ◼   ► - It's like having two houses,

00:04:07 ◼   ► only one of which you live in.

00:04:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:04:11 ◼   ► You're worried about the Mac.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Having two Macs seems wasteful.

00:04:16 ◼   ► - Well, it's just-- - So wasteful.

00:04:18 ◼   ► - Touche.

00:04:19 ◼   ► But, like-- - Todd, I love you.

00:04:20 ◼   ► - It seems wasteful to buy something

00:04:22 ◼   ► that has such a limited lifespan as a computer

00:04:24 ◼   ► and to only use it, like, three months a year.

00:04:28 ◼   ► - I think your real problem is, like,

00:04:29 ◼   ► the reason it's so great for you to bring it

00:04:30 ◼   ► is you take your computer that you were just using yesterday,

00:04:33 ◼   ► you put it on a little dolly/hand truck,

00:04:36 ◼   ► and you set it up, and it's like you pick up right

00:04:37 ◼   ► where you left off, whereas if it was sitting

00:04:39 ◼   ► in the other house, it would be like,

00:04:41 ◼   ► well, it doesn't, like, have all my stuff in all my state.

00:04:43 ◼   ► And you could try to do iCloud syncing

00:04:44 ◼   ► and put your project into Dropbox or whatever,

00:04:46 ◼   ► but it'll never be the same as, like,

00:04:48 ◼   ► this is the exact computer I was using yesterday,

00:04:50 ◼   ► and now I just turn it on in a new location

00:04:52 ◼   ► and resume my work.

00:04:53 ◼   ► So there's the syncing disadvantage,

00:04:55 ◼   ► because Apple has not yet fully embraced the idea

00:04:58 ◼   ► that the computer is an empty shell,

00:05:00 ◼   ► and you log in and all your state gets pulled down

00:05:02 ◼   ► from the network.

00:05:03 ◼   ► They're getting closer to that, but they're not there yet.

00:05:05 ◼   ► - Exactly, and that's, like, I mean, this is why,

00:05:07 ◼   ► like, I mean, look, this is why everybody uses laptops,

00:05:09 ◼   ► right, 'cause, like, if you're willing to tolerate,

00:05:12 ◼   ► like, it turns out we already have a kind of computer

00:05:14 ◼   ► that you can bring everywhere you go,

00:05:16 ◼   ► and it's always the same computer, but--

00:05:17 ◼   ► - But laptops are garbage, we already know that.

00:05:19 ◼   ► - But yes, yeah, laptops are garbage.

00:05:21 ◼   ► - Hi.

00:05:22 ◼   ► I was just thinking to myself earlier today, actually,

00:05:24 ◼   ► that I wonder, even though I really love my iMac,

00:05:27 ◼   ► which is, it's like three years old now, what was this?

00:05:31 ◼   ► It's a 5K, 27-inch, late 2015,

00:05:35 ◼   ► although I think I bought it early, early, early 2016.

00:05:37 ◼   ► Anyways, I was thinking to myself earlier today,

00:05:39 ◼   ► I wonder if I should just get myself a brand new laptop,

00:05:43 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like I really wanna replace the adorable,

00:05:45 ◼   ► 'cause it was slow when I bought it,

00:05:46 ◼   ► and it's getting real bad now, and the iMac is fine,

00:05:50 ◼   ► but it's getting a little long in the tooth.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Maybe I should just go back to the laptop

00:05:55 ◼   ► with an external display on the desk, and--

00:05:59 ◼   ► - What external display?

00:06:00 ◼   ► - Well, that's problem number one, right?

00:06:01 ◼   ► - Yes, question number one.

00:06:03 ◼   ► - Is what external display,

00:06:04 ◼   ► and I don't have a good answer for you there,

00:06:06 ◼   ► but I don't know, like, I do really like having the iMac

00:06:11 ◼   ► here at the desk, and I feel like with Dropbox,

00:06:14 ◼   ► and GitHub, and so many other online services these days,

00:06:18 ◼   ► and Gmail, or, you know, an equivalent,

00:06:20 ◼   ► it's so easy to manage multiple computers

00:06:23 ◼   ► in a way that it's never been easy before,

00:06:26 ◼   ► and yet, I still kind of miss having just the one computer

00:06:31 ◼   ► that is everything to, well, not to everyone, it's just me,

00:06:34 ◼   ► but everything to everyone, so to speak, you know?

00:06:36 ◼   ► And I don't know, at the moment, I'm not upgrading anything,

00:06:41 ◼   ► but I can't help but wonder, you know,

00:06:43 ◼   ► the laptop-only life is calling to me a little bit,

00:06:45 ◼   ► and I think the thing that's gonna stop me from going there

00:06:47 ◼   ► is, to your point, the display.

00:06:49 ◼   ► I just don't have a good display.

00:06:50 ◼   ► - Well, and also, like, when you're in that world,

00:06:52 ◼   ► like, you know, I spent a long time using a laptop

00:06:55 ◼   ► as my only computer, or at least my primary one

00:06:57 ◼   ► for a very long time, and it was great,

00:07:00 ◼   ► especially in that way, like, I didn't have to worry

00:07:02 ◼   ► about syncing and everything, and transferring files,

00:07:04 ◼   ► and making sure all my settings were the same,

00:07:06 ◼   ► and applications were the same, like, all that stuff,

00:07:08 ◼   ► it's a pain, that much of which is still a pain today,

00:07:11 ◼   ► I had to worry about none of that,

00:07:12 ◼   ► but then, like, my computer had to go in for service,

00:07:16 ◼   ► and I just didn't have a computer for, like, a week.

00:07:19 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:07:19 ◼   ► Like, there are problems like that that come up, too.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And when you're using a laptop as a desktop,

00:07:24 ◼   ► you run into the problems of doing that.

00:07:26 ◼   ► You run into things like the unreliability

00:07:28 ◼   ► of external monitor usage, and if you wanna use it

00:07:31 ◼   ► in clamshell mode, or things like wake from sleep

00:07:33 ◼   ► are frequently unreliable, and you have issues with noise

00:07:37 ◼   ► when you're running it really hard,

00:07:40 ◼   ► you're gonna hear that fan spin up,

00:07:41 ◼   ► and so, like, it just, there's just problems

00:07:44 ◼   ► with using laptops that way, some of which are better

00:07:47 ◼   ► these days, like things like Dropbox and iCloud sync,

00:07:50 ◼   ► some of which are worse, like, I think the laptops today

00:07:53 ◼   ► are less reliable than ever when it comes

00:07:55 ◼   ► to external monitor usage, and the number

00:07:59 ◼   ► of good external monitors to buy is lower than ever.

00:08:02 ◼   ► - One of the other fun pipe dreams,

00:08:05 ◼   ► along with the modular Mac that's made of a bunch

00:08:08 ◼   ► of stackable components that connect together,

00:08:10 ◼   ► is the idea, I think it started, or started getting Steam

00:08:13 ◼   ► back in the iPod era, the idea that you have

00:08:16 ◼   ► some small thing that you carry with you today,

00:08:19 ◼   ► it would be a phone back then, it was an iPod,

00:08:21 ◼   ► you could even imagine it as just like an external SSD

00:08:23 ◼   ► or something, that contains all of your state, essentially.

00:08:27 ◼   ► This is like, before cloud computing was popularized,

00:08:30 ◼   ► just like, it's like your hard drive, your boot disk,

00:08:33 ◼   ► all your info, and you just go from station to station,

00:08:36 ◼   ► whether it be a desktop station with a big monitor

00:08:38 ◼   ► and a keyboard and a mouse, or a laptop or whatever,

00:08:41 ◼   ► and you plug in your iPod, your phone, your external drive,

00:08:46 ◼   ► and there's all your stuff.

00:08:48 ◼   ► And so, you carry the state with you in this little box,

00:08:52 ◼   ► but you're able to use whatever the best computing setup

00:08:55 ◼   ► is for you, it's, you know, dockable laptops

00:08:57 ◼   ► are similar to that in hoteling situations

00:08:59 ◼   ► and companies and stuff, but that fantasy,

00:09:03 ◼   ► that like, my entire world will be on my phone,

00:09:05 ◼   ► and I'll just sit down in front of my computer

00:09:07 ◼   ► wirelessly, the phone will display onto a giant

00:09:09 ◼   ► 27 inch display and all that stuff,

00:09:10 ◼   ► like that's right up there with the modular Mac,

00:09:14 ◼   ► and for various reasons, we're not quite there,

00:09:16 ◼   ► technologically speaking, but you can, Paul Jason Snell,

00:09:18 ◼   ► he posted a picture the other day of like,

00:09:20 ◼   ► an external drive duct taped to the back of his display

00:09:24 ◼   ► on his laptop, like if you just carried a boot drive

00:09:26 ◼   ► with you, you could boot an iMac from that external drive

00:09:31 ◼   ► and how it'll all your state, like say it's a one terabyte

00:09:32 ◼   ► SSD in a very small case, and then you could connect it

00:09:35 ◼   ► to your laptop when you're on the go and boot from that

00:09:37 ◼   ► and have it taped to the back of your display or something

00:09:40 ◼   ► so it's not dangling off or whatever,

00:09:41 ◼   ► and you still have basically a portable computer

00:09:43 ◼   ► that is, like Marco's iMac Pro, it's like quote unquote,

00:09:46 ◼   ► the same computer as you had before, although,

00:09:48 ◼   ► of course all your Windows will be screwed up

00:09:50 ◼   ► by constantly changing screen resolution,

00:09:51 ◼   ► but that doesn't bother you, there you go.

00:09:54 ◼   ► So, you can't approximate that with an external drive today,

00:09:58 ◼   ► can't do it with a phone, certainly can't do it

00:10:00 ◼   ► with an iPod, but the problem is, okay,

00:10:03 ◼   ► well what if I don't wanna tape it to the back

00:10:04 ◼   ► of my display, do I really wanna use a laptop

00:10:06 ◼   ► with a thing dangling off of it that I can't disconnect

00:10:08 ◼   ► 'cause it is the boot drive, and as fast as USB-C is,

00:10:12 ◼   ► it's not as fast as an internal SSD,

00:10:13 ◼   ► so you're taking a speed hit there too,

00:10:15 ◼   ► and it would be kind of wasteful to buy an iMac

00:10:18 ◼   ► but always boot from some other thing,

00:10:20 ◼   ► so you could do it today, but it's a compromise,

00:10:23 ◼   ► but I think that is one of the dreams.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Obviously the better version of that is I don't carry

00:10:27 ◼   ► anything with me and all my stuff is in the cloud,

00:10:29 ◼   ► but the realities of data transfer rates

00:10:32 ◼   ► and waiting for things to sync and the reliability of that

00:10:35 ◼   ► and the fact that it's not really done system-wide

00:10:38 ◼   ► at anything except for Chrome OS means that

00:10:42 ◼   ► we're still a little bit farther away from that dream.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I think that dream is closer than the crazy modular

00:10:47 ◼   ► computer made of building blocks that you snap together,

00:10:50 ◼   ► but it may come to pass eventually,

00:10:53 ◼   ► and then we will finally be freed from these form factor

00:10:56 ◼   ► and state decisions that haunt us.

00:10:58 ◼   ► - All right, so let's start with some follow-up.

00:11:02 ◼   ► So a friend of the show, Ricky Mondello,

00:11:04 ◼   ► had written in with regard to what Marco was talking about

00:11:06 ◼   ► last episode with regard to overcast and sign-in

00:11:10 ◼   ► and things like that, so they had some tips with regard

00:11:13 ◼   ► to what to do or some thoughts or suggestions.

00:11:16 ◼   ► So Marco, can you recap that for me please?

00:11:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, so they pointed out what John had said last episode

00:11:21 ◼   ► that he expected was the case.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Ricky clarified that yes, by default,

00:11:25 ◼   ► sign-in with Apple does not give name and email info.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Apps have to explicitly opt in.

00:11:31 ◼   ► I think the direction I'm going to go is what John

00:11:35 ◼   ► recommended towards the end, when I said he was

00:11:37 ◼   ► frustratingly correct, of basically use the current

00:11:42 ◼   ► key value store that I'm using.

00:11:44 ◼   ► I'm basically going to make it support multiple entries

00:11:47 ◼   ► that point to multiple anonymous accounts on overcast.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Same with any Apple ID could then become multiple

00:11:55 ◼   ► and any number of anonymous overcast accounts,

00:11:58 ◼   ► and then you would just be prompted with them

00:12:00 ◼   ► at the login screen and you could pick which one.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Maybe I can show you, this is from the device

00:12:03 ◼   ► called Marco's iPhone that has these three podcasts

00:12:06 ◼   ► as the top podcast in it, or somehow make it easy

00:12:08 ◼   ► for you to detect which one is the right one.

00:12:11 ◼   ► Maybe a last logged in date or something like that.

00:12:13 ◼   ► Maybe I could use sign-in with Apple just on the web

00:12:16 ◼   ► and have it associate with these things.

00:12:17 ◼   ► I have no idea, but I have a lot of options here.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And so I still haven't had time to actually explore

00:12:23 ◼   ► these options this summer.

00:12:25 ◼   ► I've been doing a lot of other stuff, server stuff,

00:12:27 ◼   ► technical debt stuff, moving my entire life

00:12:29 ◼   ► to the beach, et cetera, but I'm working on it.

00:12:33 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

00:12:34 ◼   ► All right, and then Hashir Rashad writes,

00:12:36 ◼   ► in Catalina, Graffr is gone along with Dashboard.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Sorry, Jon.

00:12:41 ◼   ► I blame you guys for reminding Apple of Graffr.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Remote disk and chess are still there.

00:12:46 ◼   ► And somebody who is not supposed to do homework

00:12:50 ◼   ► actually did some very helpful homework,

00:12:51 ◼   ► so thank you, Jon.

00:12:52 ◼   ► - Well, Hashir provided the timestamp link

00:12:54 ◼   ► of our previous discussion of this.

00:12:56 ◼   ► Well, first of all, he's wrong.

00:12:57 ◼   ► Graffr is actually still there, so.

00:12:59 ◼   ► - Oh. - So much for that.

00:13:00 ◼   ► But anyway, it was worth revisiting.

00:13:02 ◼   ► It was back in episode 287,

00:13:04 ◼   ► Open Face Compliment Sandwich, where we,

00:13:07 ◼   ► someone asked in an Ask ATP question,

00:13:09 ◼   ► it was like, which one of these two things

00:13:12 ◼   ► do you think will be removed first?

00:13:13 ◼   ► And so we had a couple of pairings here.

00:13:15 ◼   ► And the first one was, which one will go first,

00:13:17 ◼   ► Dashboard or Remote Disk?

00:13:18 ◼   ► And Casey and I said Dashboard,

00:13:20 ◼   ► and Mark was said Remote Disk,

00:13:21 ◼   ► and it turns out Dashboard is gone in Catalina.

00:13:24 ◼   ► So we were right.

00:13:25 ◼   ► But the reason I did this is 'cause I thought Graffr

00:13:27 ◼   ► was gone too, but I'm like, you know what?

00:13:29 ◼   ► Let me double check this.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Let me actually look in Catalina.

00:13:31 ◼   ► And sure enough, Graffr is still there.

00:13:32 ◼   ► So we have no decision on chess versus Graffr,

00:13:35 ◼   ► and we have no decision on DVD player versus OpenGL.

00:13:38 ◼   ► Because DVD player and OpenGL and chess and Graffr

00:13:41 ◼   ► are all in Catalina, but we will keep you posted

00:13:44 ◼   ► as new versions come out.

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00:15:37 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:15:40 ◼   ► - All right, Marco, tell me you have some new toys,

00:15:43 ◼   ► other than your hand truck,

00:15:45 ◼   ► that you have been able to play with.

00:15:47 ◼   ► So what's going on there?

00:15:50 ◼   ► - I've been going through kind of like

00:15:52 ◼   ► the most boring midlife crisis ever,

00:15:54 ◼   ► like a midlife self-improvement phase, basically,

00:15:57 ◼   ► trying to improve limitations and things about myself

00:16:01 ◼   ► that I wasn't happy with.

00:16:02 ◼   ► I've been exercising more, dieting better.

00:16:06 ◼   ► I learned to swim last month for the first time ever,

00:16:08 ◼   ► and that was a big thing.

00:16:09 ◼   ► - You're preparing for the ocean, that's right.

00:16:12 ◼   ► - Yep, yep.

00:16:14 ◼   ► I taught myself to like seafood.

00:16:16 ◼   ► - Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Tell me more.

00:16:18 ◼   ► - That was last summer we talked about this, Casey.

00:16:19 ◼   ► Pay attention.

00:16:20 ◼   ► - Oh, right, right, right.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I started it last summer.

00:16:23 ◼   ► I've been working on it throughout the winter also.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Like I added sushi to my palate,

00:16:27 ◼   ► and I still don't like all seafood,

00:16:29 ◼   ► but I'm working on more this summer,

00:16:30 ◼   ► 'cause I'm in a place that has a lot of it,

00:16:31 ◼   ► so getting there.

00:16:33 ◼   ► 'Cause I didn't want there to be anything

00:16:35 ◼   ► that I just blanketly didn't like.

00:16:37 ◼   ► - Except for windows.

00:16:38 ◼   ► - Well, yeah.

00:16:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:40 ◼   ► You gotta have standards.

00:16:41 ◼   ► But it's limiting to not like things.

00:16:44 ◼   ► It's limiting to say like,

00:16:45 ◼   ► oh, I can't go to the sushi restaurant with you

00:16:47 ◼   ► because I don't like anything there.

00:16:49 ◼   ► Like, you know, that kind of thing.

00:16:49 ◼   ► So I guess I wanted to get rid of as many limitations

00:16:53 ◼   ► on myself as I possibly could.

00:16:55 ◼   ► And so dammit, I wanted to teach myself

00:16:57 ◼   ► to be able to use AirPods.

00:16:59 ◼   ► AirPods have never fit my ears right.

00:17:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:17:03 ◼   ► - This is gonna be a story like the binding of your feet.

00:17:06 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:17:07 ◼   ► You're gonna be like shaping your body

00:17:09 ◼   ► with these series of increasingly large AirPod-shaped wedges.

00:17:12 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:17:13 ◼   ► - So--

00:17:14 ◼   ► - Go ahead, go ahead.

00:17:15 ◼   ► - So, all right, so AirPods have two problems for me.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Number one, they fall out easily.

00:17:19 ◼   ► Like not immediately,

00:17:20 ◼   ► but if I go on a dog walk with AirPods,

00:17:22 ◼   ► within about 10 minutes,

00:17:23 ◼   ► if I haven't pushed them back in,

00:17:24 ◼   ► they'll fall, like at least one of them will fall out.

00:17:26 ◼   ► And the second problem is that when they are in,

00:17:29 ◼   ► they were painful after a pretty short time.

00:17:31 ◼   ► Like they would just hurt my ears.

00:17:34 ◼   ► But AirPods are so damn convenient.

00:17:37 ◼   ► You can keep headphones in your pocket all the time.

00:17:42 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:17:43 ◼   ► - Now, I have never had this luxury

00:17:45 ◼   ► because I couldn't wear AirPods.

00:17:47 ◼   ► I also couldn't wear any of the earbuds

00:17:48 ◼   ► that came before them.

00:17:50 ◼   ► So, I've always wanted that to have headphones

00:17:52 ◼   ► that I could keep in my pocket all the time.

00:17:55 ◼   ► There's also the benefits of the W1 and the H1,

00:17:59 ◼   ► the Apple Bluetooth pairing stuff.

00:18:01 ◼   ► These benefits are huge when you have multiple devices.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Like right now, every time I go on a plane,

00:18:06 ◼   ► I feel like a fool because I have my big Sony headphones

00:18:09 ◼   ► that are Bluetooth that are nice,

00:18:10 ◼   ► but as most Bluetooth devices,

00:18:13 ◼   ► like I know there are some that compare

00:18:14 ◼   ► to two or three things, but they're pretty rare.

00:18:17 ◼   ► The more common case is most Bluetooth headphones,

00:18:19 ◼   ► they can only be paired to one source device at a time.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And so, if you are, say, wanting to switch

00:18:24 ◼   ► from your iPhone to your iPad on a plane,

00:18:27 ◼   ► or like your phone to your laptop,

00:18:29 ◼   ► you have to re-pair the Bluetooth headphones

00:18:32 ◼   ► to the other device, which sucks.

00:18:34 ◼   ► - Like an animal.

00:18:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's time-consuming and annoying and it sucks.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And that's no good.

00:18:39 ◼   ► AirPods can easily switch between multiple devices.

00:18:44 ◼   ► And so, even though it isn't always a perfect process,

00:18:48 ◼   ► I know occasionally it does the wrong thing,

00:18:50 ◼   ► but it's way, way better than having to re-pair every time.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Re-pairing is so annoying that when I'm on a plane,

00:18:56 ◼   ► I keep my Bluetooth headphones just paired to my phone.

00:18:59 ◼   ► And when I wanna use my laptop or my iPad,

00:19:02 ◼   ► I get out the wire and I plug in the wire to the headphones

00:19:05 ◼   ► and plug in the wire into the other device,

00:19:06 ◼   ► because that's less inconvenient

00:19:08 ◼   ► than re-pairing it both ways. (laughs)

00:19:11 ◼   ► So anyway, going from regular Bluetooth to AirPods

00:19:16 ◼   ► is as big of a jumping convenience

00:19:20 ◼   ► as it was going from wired to Bluetooth in the first place.

00:19:23 ◼   ► Like, it's that much of a change

00:19:25 ◼   ► to have that multi-device pairing.

00:19:27 ◼   ► So I really wanted to be able to use AirPods

00:19:29 ◼   ► for all these reasons.

00:19:30 ◼   ► The convenience, the pocketability, the multi-pairing,

00:19:33 ◼   ► but my ears seemed like physically incompatible.

00:19:37 ◼   ► So as part of the self-improvement kick,

00:19:38 ◼   ► I figured I'm gonna make myself able to wear AirPods, damn it.

00:19:41 ◼   ► So I started just wearing them a little bit every day.

00:19:43 ◼   ► I figured, like, I can train my ears

00:19:46 ◼   ► to tolerate them physically. (laughs)

00:19:49 ◼   ► - Oh my word.

00:19:50 ◼   ► - You put tiny bits of sandpaper on the thing

00:19:52 ◼   ► and just wiggle it around there.

00:19:53 ◼   ► I'm not gonna make these ears the right shape

00:19:54 ◼   ► if it kills me. (laughs)

00:19:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so I just started wearing them

00:19:58 ◼   ► a little bit every day, thinking, you know,

00:20:00 ◼   ► maybe I could just get my ears accustomed to them.

00:20:03 ◼   ► - But before you embarked on this,

00:20:05 ◼   ► did you have a consultation with someone

00:20:07 ◼   ► who can see into your ears to say, like,

00:20:10 ◼   ► what is it about the AirPods that, you know,

00:20:13 ◼   ► like, is it a contact point?

00:20:15 ◼   ► Which dimension is too small?

00:20:16 ◼   ► Which dimension is too large?

00:20:18 ◼   ► Because there may have been something you could do

00:20:19 ◼   ► if you figured out the answer to that question,

00:20:21 ◼   ► like, what precisely is it that is different

00:20:23 ◼   ► about my ear shape that makes AirPods fall out

00:20:26 ◼   ► and be uncomfortable after a period of time?

00:20:28 ◼   ► Obviously, if it's something that's too tight,

00:20:30 ◼   ► there's maybe not a lot you can do,

00:20:31 ◼   ► but maybe there's an alternate position

00:20:33 ◼   ► that you could put them in where you could add material,

00:20:34 ◼   ► like add some, like, putty or whatever to the AirPod

00:20:38 ◼   ► and put it in in a different arrangement

00:20:39 ◼   ► so that it stays, like, I feel like,

00:20:41 ◼   ► you're doing the sort of the blind technique of like,

00:20:44 ◼   ► I can't see into my ears, I know they don't work,

00:20:46 ◼   ► but I'm just gonna try acclimation,

00:20:48 ◼   ► just gonna stick them in and just like,

00:20:49 ◼   ► eventually I'm able to get used to it,

00:20:50 ◼   ► or maybe it'll stretch out, or maybe, or whatever,

00:20:52 ◼   ► but I feel like you could have taken a more scientific

00:20:56 ◼   ► approach to this and had someone examine your AirPod fit

00:20:59 ◼   ► and come up with a strategy for correcting for it.

00:21:03 ◼   ► That didn't happen, I guess?

00:21:04 ◼   ► - I think if I would have gone to, like,

00:21:07 ◼   ► an ear doctor or an audiologist--

00:21:09 ◼   ► - I met your wife.

00:21:10 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:21:11 ◼   ► - You're going to a doctor.

00:21:12 ◼   ► - I was gonna say, like, I would think I would be laughed

00:21:14 ◼   ► out of any doctor's office if I actually would have gone,

00:21:16 ◼   ► I'd be like, can you help me work better with AirPods?

00:21:18 ◼   ► - No, no, I just met another person who can see into your ear

00:21:21 ◼   ► your wife is the obvious example.

00:21:22 ◼   ► - Oh, you know, I didn't think about asking somebody else,

00:21:25 ◼   ► but--

00:21:26 ◼   ► - Don't you ask her to get your ear hairs?

00:21:27 ◼   ► Maybe you're not at that stage of midlife crisis yet,

00:21:29 ◼   ► but you will.

00:21:30 ◼   ► - No, sorry.

00:21:30 ◼   ► - You will be.

00:21:31 ◼   ► - Good to know what I have to look forward to.

00:21:34 ◼   ► So, no, so my approach was simply brute force,

00:21:37 ◼   ► blindly poking, like, just try to get AirPods to fit

00:21:40 ◼   ► in my ears by just enduring some discomfort every day

00:21:43 ◼   ► for a while, which honestly is how I started liking seafood.

00:21:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:48 ◼   ► - Ringing endorsement of seafood.

00:21:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, right.

00:21:50 ◼   ► - The mucus of the sea, they call it.

00:21:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:54 ◼   ► - Oh my god.

00:21:55 ◼   ► - All right, so anyway, so this process of just wearing them

00:22:01 ◼   ► a little bit every day actually did improve things.

00:22:04 ◼   ► It actually did kind of work, and it worked enough

00:22:07 ◼   ► that I could now actually wear them, kind of,

00:22:11 ◼   ► but it still hurt a little, and they still fell out

00:22:13 ◼   ► regularly if I wasn't constantly pushing them back in

00:22:16 ◼   ► like every minute or so out of a walk.

00:22:19 ◼   ► Now, people have recommended various add-on things

00:22:24 ◼   ► to AirPods, ever since I started complaining about this,

00:22:26 ◼   ► like, you know, a year ago, whatever,

00:22:28 ◼   ► but almost all add-on things to AirPods are like hooks

00:22:32 ◼   ► to help hook them into your ears so they're supported better

00:22:35 ◼   ► or they're like these big rubber tips that you can stick

00:22:39 ◼   ► on them that protrude out a lot, and all these things

00:22:41 ◼   ► have the same universal problem that make the AirPods

00:22:44 ◼   ► no longer fit in the charging case.

00:22:47 ◼   ► And to me, that's a fatal deal killer right there,

00:22:50 ◼   ► because it seems ridiculous to actually use AirPods

00:22:54 ◼   ► in real life if you have to constantly keep pulling off

00:22:58 ◼   ► these attachments you have on them and put them back on

00:23:01 ◼   ► every time you want to use them just to get them

00:23:02 ◼   ► in and out of the case, 'cause like, you have to have

00:23:05 ◼   ► the AirPods in the case all the time, because you have

00:23:08 ◼   ► to put them into charge 'cause their battery life sucks,

00:23:11 ◼   ► and if they aren't in the case, they're on.

00:23:14 ◼   ► And so it's like they're ready to steal the output

00:23:17 ◼   ► at any moment and interpret gestures in your pocket

00:23:18 ◼   ► and everything, so you kind of have to have them

00:23:20 ◼   ► in the case a lot, so I don't know why any product

00:23:23 ◼   ► could possibly exist that can modify AirPods

00:23:26 ◼   ► in such a way that they don't fit in the case anymore

00:23:28 ◼   ► and have absolutely anybody want to use that.

00:23:32 ◼   ► Fortunately, I did find one product, and I think there's

00:23:35 ◼   ► a couple of clones, but they all seem to be the same thing,

00:23:38 ◼   ► there's one product that does allow you to keep using

00:23:42 ◼   ► the case, but is one of those silicone add-on wrapping pads

00:23:46 ◼   ► around the AirPods.

00:23:48 ◼   ► In typical Amazon style, it is called Fit in the Case

00:23:51 ◼   ► AirPods EarPods Covers Compatible with AirPods 2

00:23:53 ◼   ► and 1 Anti-Slip Silicone Soft Sports Covers Accessories

00:23:55 ◼   ► Apple AirPods Earbud 2 Pairs White.

00:23:57 ◼   ► - This product name is very close to being a valid

00:24:01 ◼   ► shell command line, like I looked at it briefly,

00:24:03 ◼   ► and it's like 2 ampersand greater than 1

00:24:06 ◼   ► for input redirection, that's got the curly,

00:24:08 ◼   ► like who puts curly braces?

00:24:09 ◼   ► Fit in the case, it's not fits in the case,

00:24:12 ◼   ► it's capital F fit in, capital T, the case,

00:24:16 ◼   ► in curly braces.

00:24:18 ◼   ► These have to be generated by a computer anyway, go on.

00:24:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I found these, and they were like 11 bucks,

00:24:24 ◼   ► and I figured I'll give it a shot.

00:24:26 ◼   ► They actually do work, they really are thin enough

00:24:30 ◼   ► to just barely have the AirPods still fit in the case.

00:24:34 ◼   ► They don't actually change things that much,

00:24:38 ◼   ► 'cause they're very thin rubber, or silicone,

00:24:42 ◼   ► and they're hilariously difficult to install too,

00:24:46 ◼   ► 'cause the first time I tried to install one,

00:24:48 ◼   ► I tore it in half immediately.

00:24:51 ◼   ► The good thing is they actually give you an extra one,

00:24:53 ◼   ► so it happens a lot.

00:24:56 ◼   ► So I'm like, oh, that was nice.

00:24:57 ◼   ► - For a mere $11, you get an extra .001 cent of silicone.

00:25:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, it doesn't matter, it was worth it.

00:25:05 ◼   ► - Did you get colors?

00:25:07 ◼   ► - No, I stuck with white.

00:25:09 ◼   ► But other colors might be useful,

00:25:12 ◼   ► if you have multiple AirPods in your house,

00:25:14 ◼   ► you wanna distinguish them, or if you wanna be able

00:25:16 ◼   ► to easily tell when you have these on the AirPods.

00:25:19 ◼   ► So they don't do much, they make the AirPods

00:25:24 ◼   ► just a little bit bigger, and just a little bit softer.

00:25:28 ◼   ► And that is just enough to make the AirPods

00:25:32 ◼   ► not fall out of my ears anymore.

00:25:34 ◼   ► And it makes it a little bit more comfortable too.

00:25:37 ◼   ► So now, I can actually use AirPods.

00:25:42 ◼   ► I can actually carry them in my pocket, in the case,

00:25:45 ◼   ► whenever I think I might want headphones,

00:25:47 ◼   ► and I can actually use them acceptably.

00:25:50 ◼   ► So I have actually pretty much solved my AirPods problem.

00:25:54 ◼   ► I still wish they were more comfortable,

00:25:56 ◼   ► but I think these are about as comfortable

00:25:58 ◼   ► as they're going to get for me.

00:26:00 ◼   ► I'm actually very satisfied with that.

00:26:02 ◼   ► But, because they are still not amazingly comfortable,

00:26:06 ◼   ► and I take a lot of long walks with headphones,

00:26:09 ◼   ► so I also wanted to try the new Powerbeats Pro.

00:26:14 ◼   ► This is a product that was harder to get

00:26:16 ◼   ► than the original Apple Watch.

00:26:18 ◼   ► Like the Powerbeats Pro officially launched

00:26:19 ◼   ► in, I think, mid-May.

00:26:23 ◼   ► But they were backordered like crazy,

00:26:25 ◼   ► typical like Apple, you know, like a short supply launch.

00:26:28 ◼   ► Like they were backordered for weeks,

00:26:30 ◼   ► and I had to like keep checking the store,

00:26:32 ◼   ► I'd refresh the page every morning,

00:26:33 ◼   ► and like, you know, try to get in.

00:26:36 ◼   ► I finally snagged a pair on the morning

00:26:39 ◼   ► that I was about to leave for WWDC.

00:26:42 ◼   ► I was literally going to the airport in like two hours,

00:26:45 ◼   ► and I caught it in stock at my local store,

00:26:47 ◼   ► and I went over there and picked them up.

00:26:49 ◼   ► So, I've been using the Powerbeats Pro for,

00:26:52 ◼   ► I don't know, a few weeks now, I guess, whatever it's been.

00:26:54 ◼   ► I gotta say they're really interesting.

00:26:56 ◼   ► So, these are the things that are basically AirPods,

00:26:59 ◼   ► but for like more active workouts.

00:27:02 ◼   ► So they are physically larger,

00:27:05 ◼   ► and they have these, the big like hook around things

00:27:08 ◼   ► like that hook on top of your ears.

00:27:10 ◼   ► And then they have these little rubber things

00:27:11 ◼   ► that like stick that into your ears from them.

00:27:14 ◼   ► So they're kind of suspended on your ear,

00:27:16 ◼   ► and they stick directly in instead of the AirPods,

00:27:18 ◼   ► like they're all kind of like resting there in your ears.

00:27:21 ◼   ► So, they're much better if you are doing

00:27:24 ◼   ► like a super active kind of workout,

00:27:26 ◼   ► where AirPods might fall out of your ears

00:27:28 ◼   ► if you wore them, but these are better,

00:27:30 ◼   ► and also these are I think more water resistant

00:27:32 ◼   ► and everything, but otherwise, they're basically AirPod IIs.

00:27:35 ◼   ► They have the H1 chip, they have the Hadeingus support.

00:27:39 ◼   ► It takes a good few days, at least,

00:27:43 ◼   ► to figure out how to get them into your ears,

00:27:46 ◼   ► or how to get them back into the case

00:27:49 ◼   ► without an embarrassing degree of fumbling around.

00:27:52 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness.

00:27:53 ◼   ► - 'Cause you gotta like, like to get them into your ear,

00:27:55 ◼   ► you have to kind of like hook it over your ear,

00:27:56 ◼   ► like twist it in, like you're like screwing it

00:27:59 ◼   ► into your ear, like to get the hook right.

00:28:00 ◼   ► It's really weird, and then getting it back into the case

00:28:03 ◼   ► is similarly like incredibly awkward,

00:28:06 ◼   ► because you have to figure out like how does this fit,

00:28:08 ◼   ► and if you get the left and the right mixed up,

00:28:09 ◼   ► you're totally screwed, like you'll never figure that out.

00:28:12 ◼   ► It's hilarious.

00:28:14 ◼   ► The controls on them are a mixed bag

00:28:18 ◼   ► compared to AirPods or other Bluetooth headphones.

00:28:21 ◼   ► Each of the two earpieces has a volume rocker switch,

00:28:25 ◼   ► like volume up and down, and a center button

00:28:27 ◼   ► that functions just like the old wired clickers did.

00:28:31 ◼   ► One tap on the center button is play/pause,

00:28:33 ◼   ► two taps is seek forward, three taps is seek back,

00:28:35 ◼   ► just like the old remotes.

00:28:37 ◼   ► And I think it's actually really nice

00:28:39 ◼   ► to have actual buttons on these again.

00:28:41 ◼   ► You know I'm a fan of buttons, obviously.

00:28:44 ◼   ► So they're tactile, they are pretty reliable.

00:28:47 ◼   ► The only problem I've had with the buttons

00:28:48 ◼   ► is that the double and triple click seek gestures

00:28:50 ◼   ► are actually still as tricky as they've always been.

00:28:53 ◼   ► Like sometimes I double click too fast,

00:28:56 ◼   ► and it treats it as a pause,

00:28:57 ◼   ► so I have to like deliberately remember to wait a second

00:29:00 ◼   ► between the two clicks so it really recognizes that it's two.

00:29:03 ◼   ► And similarly getting three clicks recognized

00:29:05 ◼   ► to be seek back is not easy,

00:29:08 ◼   ► 'cause it often interprets it as two,

00:29:09 ◼   ► which is seek forward, which is the opposite of what you want

00:29:11 ◼   ► so like it's tricky to do the seek gestures,

00:29:14 ◼   ► but they do work, and those are things

00:29:16 ◼   ► that AirPods just can't do at all

00:29:18 ◼   ► unless you map the things differently and everything.

00:29:21 ◼   ► With these you can't remap the controls on the Powerbeats,

00:29:24 ◼   ► they're not customizable the way the AirPod

00:29:26 ◼   ► double tap gestures are.

00:29:27 ◼   ► The buttons all do the same thing, always all the time,

00:29:30 ◼   ► and both earpieces buttons do the same thing.

00:29:33 ◼   ► So you can't make like the right one skip forward,

00:29:35 ◼   ► the left one skip back, or anything like that.

00:29:37 ◼   ► You can use Siri of course, I found that to be

00:29:40 ◼   ► the hey dingus support is just as reliable on this

00:29:43 ◼   ► as it is on the AirPod twos.

00:29:44 ◼   ► Other downside of the controls here is that

00:29:48 ◼   ► the center button that does like the play, pause, and seek

00:29:52 ◼   ► is directly behind the main driver

00:29:55 ◼   ► and like the rubber tip protrusion.

00:29:57 ◼   ► So when you push it, you are pushing the rubber tip

00:30:00 ◼   ► into your ear more.

00:30:02 ◼   ► And so you're kinda like squishing it into your ear

00:30:04 ◼   ► with every push, and that's not pleasant.

00:30:06 ◼   ► Although I will say, it is less unpleasant

00:30:09 ◼   ► than tapping AirPods that are in your ear,

00:30:12 ◼   ► which I find significantly unpleasant.

00:30:14 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:30:15 ◼   ► So the controls are, you know, they're a mixed bag,

00:30:17 ◼   ► but overall I find them significantly better

00:30:19 ◼   ► than the AirPods in that way.

00:30:20 ◼   ► The case that they go in is comically large

00:30:26 ◼   ► if you're accustomed to AirPods.

00:30:28 ◼   ► It's far too large to be pocketable in pretty much anything

00:30:32 ◼   ► except maybe the largest of like winter jackets.

00:30:36 ◼   ► And because of the physical controls,

00:30:39 ◼   ► you can't just keep them loose in your pocket

00:30:42 ◼   ► when you're not wearing them,

00:30:43 ◼   ► because the play, pause button gets accidentally pressed

00:30:46 ◼   ► all the time in pockets.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So if you have them with you, like with AirPods,

00:30:51 ◼   ► if you have AirPods with you,

00:30:53 ◼   ► and you wanna like go into a store

00:30:55 ◼   ► and not be so rude as to be wearing headphones in a store,

00:30:57 ◼   ► or somebody comes up to you and you wanna talk to them,

00:30:59 ◼   ► or you arrive where you're going

00:31:01 ◼   ► and you wanna take your headphones out,

00:31:02 ◼   ► with AirPods, you probably have the case in your pocket.

00:31:04 ◼   ► So you can just take out the AirPods

00:31:06 ◼   ► and put them in the case.

00:31:07 ◼   ► But with the Powerbeats Pro,

00:31:08 ◼   ► the case is too big to be in your pocket,

00:31:10 ◼   ► so you probably don't have it with you

00:31:12 ◼   ► a lot of the time that you're using them.

00:31:14 ◼   ► But because the button on them

00:31:15 ◼   ► gets pushed in your pocket accidentally,

00:31:17 ◼   ► you also can't put them in your pocket really well either.

00:31:21 ◼   ► So you have to like just kinda hold them,

00:31:22 ◼   ► or leave them in your ear

00:31:23 ◼   ► and just hope nobody cares or whatever.

00:31:25 ◼   ► So like that's a bit of an inconvenience.

00:31:27 ◼   ► - Speaking of that, did you have with your AirPods yet

00:31:30 ◼   ► the sort of typical, most awful social experience with them,

00:31:35 ◼   ► which is you're wearing them like you said,

00:31:37 ◼   ► and maybe someone comes up to you,

00:31:38 ◼   ► you're walking your dog, you're taking a long walk,

00:31:40 ◼   ► someone comes up to you and wants to say something,

00:31:41 ◼   ► or wants to tell you that you dropped something.

00:31:44 ◼   ► Or anyway, someone tries to talk to you,

00:31:46 ◼   ► but you're listening to something.

00:31:47 ◼   ► So they get your attention, you turn to them,

00:31:49 ◼   ► and you immediately tap your AirPods with your finger

00:31:53 ◼   ► to stop whatever you're listening to,

00:31:54 ◼   ► so you can hear the person who just got your attention.

00:31:57 ◼   ► And this gesture, I think I've described this

00:31:59 ◼   ► on the show before, and this gesture is interpreted

00:32:01 ◼   ► as you pointing to your headphones,

00:32:04 ◼   ► and you're doing, "Uh, person, can't you see

00:32:07 ◼   ► "that I'm listening to something on my headphones?"

00:32:08 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:32:09 ◼   ► - Because they don't understand that tapping stops the sound.

00:32:12 ◼   ► They think what you're doing is going,

00:32:14 ◼   ► "Uh, hello, I have things in my ear."

00:32:17 ◼   ► And so they think, "Oh, um," and they go, "Oh, sorry, sorry,"

00:32:20 ◼   ► and they start to back away.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Have you had that happen yet?

00:32:22 ◼   ► - Oh no, I haven't yet.

00:32:24 ◼   ► I mean, I think that's the biggest argument ever

00:32:26 ◼   ► for just using the pull the AirPod out to pause feature.

00:32:30 ◼   ► - Yes, pulling out is the right move, right?

00:32:34 ◼   ► But if you get used to tapping, which I'm very used to,

00:32:36 ◼   ► because that's what I do in my house or whatever,

00:32:39 ◼   ► it's easier to tap because then you still have

00:32:41 ◼   ► both hands free or whatever, but my experience is

00:32:44 ◼   ► the entire rest of the world thinks that tapping

00:32:47 ◼   ► is you being the rudest person ever,

00:32:49 ◼   ► and I feel so bad when it happens,

00:32:50 ◼   ► then I feel like I have to explain to them,

00:32:52 ◼   ► "No, tapping them makes the sound."

00:32:55 ◼   ► Oh god, forget it.

00:32:56 ◼   ► This is the most awful thing ever.

00:32:58 ◼   ► I feel like Apple should have special PSAs on television

00:33:02 ◼   ► or streaming channels or whatever people watch on YouTube,

00:33:04 ◼   ► I guess, or whatever you watch these days,

00:33:05 ◼   ► is they just so you know, if someone taps their ear,

00:33:08 ◼   ► they're not telling you to buzz off by pointing

00:33:13 ◼   ► to their expensive headphone and telling you to go away.

00:33:15 ◼   ► They're stopping the sound.

00:33:16 ◼   ► - Oh man, I didn't think about that.

00:33:18 ◼   ► - With Powerbeats, yanking them out might be more difficult

00:33:21 ◼   ► 'cause you have to unhook them from your ear or whatever,

00:33:23 ◼   ► and I guess the button, you don't have to tap as much.

00:33:25 ◼   ► That's my one question.

00:33:26 ◼   ► - You just twist a little and pull it out.

00:33:27 ◼   ► It's real fast.

00:33:28 ◼   ► - That's my question about the button,

00:33:29 ◼   ► but you already answered it.

00:33:30 ◼   ► How hard do you have to hit that button?

00:33:32 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't, like a physical button,

00:33:33 ◼   ► I wouldn't wanna actually press into my ear,

00:33:35 ◼   ► but I guess the squishy rubber helps.

00:33:37 ◼   ► - Well, and the reality is,

00:33:39 ◼   ► you don't have to push it very hard at all.

00:33:40 ◼   ► It pushes very easily, which is I think why

00:33:42 ◼   ► it gets pushed so accidentally in my pocket.

00:33:44 ◼   ► - And why you can't have it loose in your pockets now.

00:33:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, like I frequently will accidentally push the button

00:33:48 ◼   ► as I'm putting it in my ear or taking it out of my ear,

00:33:51 ◼   ► because it's that easily pressed.

00:33:53 ◼   ► - That case looks like it's the size of a baseball.

00:33:55 ◼   ► That can't be how big it is, though.

00:33:57 ◼   ► - I mean, it's not round, but it is--

00:33:58 ◼   ► - It's like a baseball with a top and bottom cut off?

00:34:01 ◼   ► - It's like if you made a pillow shape

00:34:05 ◼   ► that has the approximate maximum diameter of a baseball.

00:34:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's gigantic.

00:34:09 ◼   ► - And if you look, it isn't that ridiculous

00:34:13 ◼   ► when you see the way they're designed,

00:34:14 ◼   ► because the shape of them is such that

00:34:17 ◼   ► you kinda can't fit them in anything

00:34:19 ◼   ► that was much smaller than that.

00:34:20 ◼   ► - If they had made them so that the two weird shapes,

00:34:23 ◼   ► if you offset them to each other,

00:34:25 ◼   ► went into each other's negative space,

00:34:26 ◼   ► you could've got it down smaller,

00:34:28 ◼   ► but I guess that's tricky.

00:34:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe.

00:34:30 ◼   ► And then, I mean, they're hard enough

00:34:31 ◼   ► to get into this case as it is.

00:34:33 ◼   ► - To get them into that, it'd be like

00:34:34 ◼   ► one of those tavern puzzles.

00:34:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, right.

00:34:36 ◼   ► - You have to fit the things together at a particular range.

00:34:38 ◼   ► - There's like two rings, and they look like

00:34:40 ◼   ► they can't come off each other,

00:34:41 ◼   ► but somehow you have to get this one through that one,

00:34:43 ◼   ► and then it comes off, yeah, exactly.

00:34:45 ◼   ► Anyway, so overall, though,

00:34:49 ◼   ► where I think the Powerbeats Pro are substantially better,

00:34:53 ◼   ► there's a couple of advantages.

00:34:54 ◼   ► Number one, battery life is way better on them

00:34:58 ◼   ► than AirPods, 'cause the batteries are just much bigger.

00:35:00 ◼   ► Both the case and the batteries that are actually

00:35:03 ◼   ► in the earpieces are substantially larger

00:35:05 ◼   ► and longer lasting, so that's great

00:35:07 ◼   ► if you ever run into battery issues with AirPods.

00:35:10 ◼   ► And then, comfort is significantly upgraded.

00:35:14 ◼   ► Because they have those ear hooks,

00:35:16 ◼   ► the ear hooks are kind of suspending them

00:35:19 ◼   ► in front of your ears, and so there is the part

00:35:21 ◼   ► that goes into your ear, but that's not bearing

00:35:24 ◼   ► the weight of the thing.

00:35:26 ◼   ► Like with AirPods, the AirPods bear the weight

00:35:28 ◼   ► of the whole AirPod on the bottom surface,

00:35:32 ◼   ► whatever it is, of the inside of your ear.

00:35:34 ◼   ► Whereas the Powerbeats are suspending them

00:35:36 ◼   ► kind of nearby in there, and so a lot of that weight

00:35:39 ◼   ► is falling on the top of the ear,

00:35:41 ◼   ► which I think is less sensitive to it.

00:35:43 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like, if you wear glasses,

00:35:45 ◼   ► it's going the same place, basically.

00:35:46 ◼   ► - I was gonna say, the next old person thing

00:35:48 ◼   ► you have to encounter is when you eventually get glasses.

00:35:50 ◼   ► I find it very uncomfortable to have anything

00:35:53 ◼   ► pressing against the stems of my glasses,

00:35:55 ◼   ► so I imagine if I had these hooked over my ears,

00:35:57 ◼   ► fine, all well and good, maybe,

00:35:59 ◼   ► although I find the back of my ear more sensitive

00:36:01 ◼   ► than the inside for the most part.

00:36:03 ◼   ► But then if I also had to have a glasses stem there,

00:36:06 ◼   ► I'd be like, well, does that go on the inside of the hook

00:36:09 ◼   ► or on the outside, and in both things,

00:36:10 ◼   ► I think it would result in something pressing

00:36:13 ◼   ► against the side of my head behind my ear,

00:36:16 ◼   ► and I hate that feeling.

00:36:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, honestly, I don't know how well these

00:36:19 ◼   ► would play with glasses for that reason.

00:36:20 ◼   ► - You'll find out.

00:36:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

00:36:24 ◼   ► But yeah, so comfort-wise, the fact that they're not

00:36:28 ◼   ► having all their weight on the bottom thing

00:36:30 ◼   ► on the inside of my ear is a huge improvement.

00:36:32 ◼   ► You only feel the fairly light pressure

00:36:36 ◼   ► of those rubber tips, and they come with four different

00:36:39 ◼   ► types of rubber tips in different sizes.

00:36:41 ◼   ► They have the regular kind of bulbous marshmallow kind,

00:36:46 ◼   ► and that comes in small, medium, and large,

00:36:48 ◼   ► and all that's come with it, and they also have

00:36:50 ◼   ► another one that's like, it's the kind that looks like

00:36:52 ◼   ► two scoops of ice cream.

00:36:54 ◼   ► It's like two half circles stacked.

00:36:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like the barbed one.

00:36:57 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:36:58 ◼   ► - It goes in, but it doesn't come back out.

00:36:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, right.

00:37:00 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:37:01 ◼   ► - I don't know what that one's for.

00:37:02 ◼   ► I tried it, and it was too skinny,

00:37:04 ◼   ► and it wouldn't seal for me.

00:37:06 ◼   ► So I've been using the larges and the mediums,

00:37:08 ◼   ► and they are great, and so because you have

00:37:12 ◼   ► this customizability of those various tips,

00:37:15 ◼   ► and they're being set there with less pressure

00:37:18 ◼   ► to begin with because of the hook setup,

00:37:21 ◼   ► comfort is way better.

00:37:22 ◼   ► I can wear these things for a long time

00:37:24 ◼   ► and feel no pain whatsoever.

00:37:27 ◼   ► And the sound quality is also,

00:37:29 ◼   ► so sound quality normally is pretty much exactly

00:37:31 ◼   ► like the AirPod 2 or the AirPod 1.

00:37:33 ◼   ► It's the same thing as the AirPods, really,

00:37:35 ◼   ► which means that when you have a loose seal,

00:37:39 ◼   ► you don't really get much bass or anything.

00:37:41 ◼   ► It's fine for podcasts, but if you get a good seal

00:37:44 ◼   ► with AirPods, if they really seal well into your ear

00:37:46 ◼   ► or if you push them in a little bit,

00:37:48 ◼   ► it actually gets pretty decent even for music.

00:37:50 ◼   ► With Powerbeats, that's actually easier to achieve

00:37:53 ◼   ► because it's much easier to get a good seal

00:37:56 ◼   ► because of the way they're held there

00:37:57 ◼   ► and because you have the different size tips to choose from.

00:38:00 ◼   ► So I actually really like them.

00:38:03 ◼   ► They are significantly less convenient than the AirPods

00:38:07 ◼   ► in the sense that they are not really pocketable,

00:38:12 ◼   ► and the case is so clumsy and everything,

00:38:15 ◼   ► but the convenience is really nice.

00:38:16 ◼   ► Now, that being said, they still are not suitable

00:38:20 ◼   ► for use on a plane.

00:38:21 ◼   ► Like, they still don't seal well enough

00:38:25 ◼   ► to make them particularly audible

00:38:27 ◼   ► in a very loud place like a plane.

00:38:30 ◼   ► AirPods have the same problem, even slightly worse,

00:38:32 ◼   ► and this is why I am so looking forward

00:38:35 ◼   ► to if Apple ever makes the rumored over-ear headphones

00:38:39 ◼   ► using the W1 or H1 style pairing and chip and everything.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Even if they are terrible sounding

00:38:47 ◼   ► and even if they have terrible noise cancellation,

00:38:50 ◼   ► I will buy those because A,

00:38:52 ◼   ► I don't use noise cancellation on planes.

00:38:54 ◼   ► I just use whatever passive isolation my headphones have.

00:38:56 ◼   ► I turn off the noise cancellation 'cause I don't like it.

00:38:59 ◼   ► So the actual active noise cancellation,

00:39:01 ◼   ► I couldn't care less.

00:39:02 ◼   ► I just want big, comfortable over-ear headphones

00:39:04 ◼   ► that passively isolate sound well,

00:39:06 ◼   ► and to be able to switch those between my phone,

00:39:09 ◼   ► my iPad, and my computer easily on a plane

00:39:11 ◼   ► would completely negate any possible advantage

00:39:16 ◼   ► that Sony or Bose could come up with with their headphones.

00:39:20 ◼   ► So I'm very much looking forward to,

00:39:22 ◼   ► if that rumor ends up being true

00:39:24 ◼   ► and they end up coming out with over-ear headphones,

00:39:25 ◼   ► man, I can't wait.

00:39:26 ◼   ► Whatever we call them, like, head pods or air heads

00:39:29 ◼   ► or whatever, like, I can't wait.

00:39:31 ◼   ► - So how long can you reasonably have AirPods

00:39:36 ◼   ► with these little sheaths in your ears?

00:39:39 ◼   ► Like, are we talking half an hour, an hour, two hours?

00:39:43 ◼   ► - I could, like, walk to the store and back

00:39:45 ◼   ► or take, like, a short dog walk and be okay.

00:39:47 ◼   ► I'd rather not.

00:39:48 ◼   ► Like, I'd rather use the Powerbeats Pro or my AfterShocks

00:39:52 ◼   ► or, you know, other, like, good portable headphones.

00:39:54 ◼   ► I'd rather, like, I'd rather use those.

00:39:57 ◼   ► But the AirPods are now usable.

00:40:02 ◼   ► So, like, before, like, suppose, like,

00:40:05 ◼   ► one thing that's happened a lot is, like,

00:40:06 ◼   ► you know, I'll walk into town at the beach,

00:40:09 ◼   ► like, with the family, and then I will wanna walk home

00:40:13 ◼   ► or I'll be asked to walk somewhere else

00:40:14 ◼   ► to go get something and the family will stay back.

00:40:17 ◼   ► They'll go to a playground and I need to go to the store.

00:40:19 ◼   ► So I'll, like, split off from the family.

00:40:21 ◼   ► I'm, now I'm just alone and I'm bored.

00:40:23 ◼   ► And, like, I have a long walk ahead of me.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So it's like, if I have AirPods in my pocket,

00:40:27 ◼   ► like, I didn't have to plan for that.

00:40:29 ◼   ► I just can always carry them.

00:40:31 ◼   ► And now I have them and they're great, right?

00:40:33 ◼   ► Or, you know, something like,

00:40:35 ◼   ► if I'm, like, going to the city for the day,

00:40:38 ◼   ► I can just have them in my pocket and I might eat them

00:40:41 ◼   ► and I might not and it's fine.

00:40:42 ◼   ► I don't have to think about it.

00:40:43 ◼   ► Like, I can't fit my AfterShokz in my pants pocket.

00:40:47 ◼   ► I can fit my AirPods, though.

00:40:48 ◼   ► Like, I can just have them there.

00:40:50 ◼   ► It's just really nice.

00:40:52 ◼   ► So it's, like, even though they are not

00:40:54 ◼   ► my favorite headphones,

00:40:55 ◼   ► they're not the most comfortable headphones on me,

00:40:57 ◼   ► there are cases where, like, I'd rather have headphones

00:40:59 ◼   ► than not have headphones,

00:41:00 ◼   ► even if they're a little uncomfortable after a while.

00:41:02 ◼   ► And it's way better than the way they were before.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Like, I can actually use them

00:41:06 ◼   ► and not really regret it now.

00:41:09 ◼   ► So I'm pretty happy.

00:41:10 ◼   ► - And then what about the PowerBeats?

00:41:13 ◼   ► How long can those stay in before you get cranky

00:41:15 ◼   ► or uncomfortable or whatever?

00:41:16 ◼   ► - I would say they are as comfortable

00:41:18 ◼   ► as the AfterShokz for me.

00:41:19 ◼   ► So that would be, like, you know,

00:41:20 ◼   ► I can easily take a two-hour walk with them and be,

00:41:23 ◼   ► I might be a little hot at the end, but I'd be fine.

00:41:26 ◼   ► - Since we're doing headphone reviews,

00:41:27 ◼   ► I got new headphones recently, too.

00:41:29 ◼   ► I used them for my flight to WWDC.

00:41:31 ◼   ► I got the Sony, whatever the latest Sony

00:41:33 ◼   ► noise-canceling thing.

00:41:34 ◼   ► It's like--

00:41:35 ◼   ► - The WH, whatever, Mark III.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:41:38 ◼   ► And I had been using Bose noise-canceling ones before.

00:41:41 ◼   ► I do use the actual noise-canceling,

00:41:43 ◼   ► so that's what I wanted out of them.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And I just listen to podcasts,

00:41:46 ◼   ► so I don't really care what the sound quality is like,

00:41:47 ◼   ► as long as it's okay.

00:41:48 ◼   ► And the reason I was interested in replacing the Bose at all

00:41:51 ◼   ► is because I find the Bose ear cups

00:41:53 ◼   ► to be a little bit small for me

00:41:55 ◼   ► and a little bit uncomfortable on a six-hour flight.

00:41:57 ◼   ► Like, they're okay in the beginning,

00:41:58 ◼   ► but around an hour, three and a half,

00:41:59 ◼   ► I'm like, "Well, these are kind of annoying my ears."

00:42:03 ◼   ► So I got the Sonys,

00:42:03 ◼   ► which look like they had bigger ear pads

00:42:06 ◼   ► and ear cup things, and hopefully that would work better.

00:42:09 ◼   ► And people had said that noise-canceling is as good

00:42:11 ◼   ► as Bose or better or whatever.

00:42:12 ◼   ► So anyway, I got these.

00:42:14 ◼   ► They're fancier, they have all sorts of weird features

00:42:16 ◼   ► where they can optimize their noise-canceling

00:42:18 ◼   ► based on the atmospheric pressure

00:42:19 ◼   ► and other BS they tell you they're doing.

00:42:21 ◼   ► Who knows what they're actually doing.

00:42:22 ◼   ► But anyway, they have their Bluetooth

00:42:25 ◼   ► instead of having a wire like my Bose ones did.

00:42:27 ◼   ► They have a swipey touchpad thing

00:42:30 ◼   ► on the outside of the ear cup,

00:42:32 ◼   ► which is terrible because it's like the Apple TV remote.

00:42:35 ◼   ► Is this a horizontal swipe?

00:42:36 ◼   ► Is it a vertical swipe?

00:42:37 ◼   ► Did I get it right?

00:42:38 ◼   ► Did I get my oriented correctly?

00:42:40 ◼   ► Tapping them is the worst.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Oh God, 'cause they have a tap control.

00:42:44 ◼   ► As bad as it is to tap an AirPod,

00:42:47 ◼   ► imagine tapping the rigid outside of a giant cup

00:42:51 ◼   ► that's like sealed to the side of your head.

00:42:53 ◼   ► It's like the loudest sound ever.

00:42:55 ◼   ► I'm trying to tap gently, but it's very uncomfortable,

00:42:58 ◼   ► not uncomfortable physically from like the pressure,

00:43:00 ◼   ► but uncomfortable noise-wise, it is very bad.

00:43:04 ◼   ► But setting that aside, I mean,

00:43:05 ◼   ► you can always stop in a million other ways.

00:43:07 ◼   ► You can use your phone to stop,

00:43:09 ◼   ► or you could use one of those little Bluetooth

00:43:12 ◼   ► controller things, you know, anyway.

00:43:14 ◼   ► All that aside, the ear cups were more comfortable.

00:43:16 ◼   ► What surprised me, and the thing that was annoying me

00:43:19 ◼   ► by like hour two, was the band that goes

00:43:22 ◼   ► over the top of my head was just like,

00:43:23 ◼   ► it's like that feeling that Casey might be familiar with,

00:43:25 ◼   ► and Marco maybe not as much for multiple reasons,

00:43:28 ◼   ► when your hair hits the headliner in a car, right?

00:43:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:33 ◼   ► Do you know that feeling, Casey?

00:43:34 ◼   ► - I actually, I know of what you speak,

00:43:36 ◼   ► but I am not quite tall enough

00:43:38 ◼   ► to have ever really had that problem.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Despite my hair also adding an inch or two to my height.

00:43:43 ◼   ► - If you're a taller person, or you have a car

00:43:46 ◼   ► with a very low ceiling, and like your car has like a,

00:43:49 ◼   ► you know, typical cheap car, you know,

00:43:52 ◼   ► sort of fuzzy Muppet felt stuff on the roof,

00:43:55 ◼   ► if your hair just hits that, you're like,

00:43:59 ◼   ► well, so what, your hair is barely swiping

00:44:01 ◼   ► a fuzzy Muppet felt, how can that,

00:44:04 ◼   ► how do you even notice that, right?

00:44:05 ◼   ► It's a strange thing, I'm sure there's some word for it,

00:44:08 ◼   ► or someone did their PhD thesis on it,

00:44:10 ◼   ► like that it sort of grips your hair a little bit,

00:44:13 ◼   ► like it's not like it's like, you know,

00:44:15 ◼   ► vinyl or something slippery, so the fuzzy Muppet felt

00:44:18 ◼   ► grips your hair a little bit, and just through like

00:44:20 ◼   ► the regular motion of your head,

00:44:21 ◼   ► of just like driving or whatever,

00:44:24 ◼   ► your head moves and the hair kind of stays

00:44:26 ◼   ► where it's being gripped, and it just ends up like

00:44:28 ◼   ► moving your hair follicles back and forth,

00:44:30 ◼   ► and back and forth, and it becomes incredibly irritating,

00:44:32 ◼   ► it's like a kind of, like, you know,

00:44:34 ◼   ► water torture where they drop a drop of water

00:44:36 ◼   ► on your forehead, it's like, who cares, drop of water,

00:44:38 ◼   ► that doesn't hurt, but by 10,000 drop,

00:44:40 ◼   ► it feels like a hammer falling and you're ready to go insane.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Well, this felt like the same thing,

00:44:43 ◼   ► where it's just like, the band was just,

00:44:46 ◼   ► I don't know what it was doing, was it moving my hair around,

00:44:48 ◼   ► was it like, it didn't feel like it had much more pressure

00:44:51 ◼   ► on top of my head, it's so weird,

00:44:53 ◼   ► like the headphones I'm wearing now

00:44:54 ◼   ► that I wear every time on my podcast

00:44:56 ◼   ► don't have the sensation at all,

00:44:58 ◼   ► like they're touching the top of my head, right,

00:45:01 ◼   ► but they don't feel like they're irritating the hair,

00:45:04 ◼   ► they're, the Sony ones are padded up there,

00:45:06 ◼   ► it's the same, feels like the same kind of slippery,

00:45:08 ◼   ► fake vinyl-y material up there, I have no idea what it is,

00:45:12 ◼   ► I'm thinking maybe it's because of like,

00:45:14 ◼   ► the shape of the band, 'cause sometimes they make it like,

00:45:17 ◼   ► it's supposed to look like a nice rigid U shape,

00:45:19 ◼   ► but really to get it to fit over your head,

00:45:20 ◼   ► you have to adjust the things,

00:45:21 ◼   ► and now the nice rigid U becomes like a rigid section,

00:45:24 ◼   ► and then this other section that's a different angle,

00:45:25 ◼   ► then the rigid section on top,

00:45:26 ◼   ► and then another little section,

00:45:27 ◼   ► and then the final rigid section,

00:45:29 ◼   ► and maybe that makes an arc

00:45:30 ◼   ► that's actually pressing on my head more, I don't know,

00:45:33 ◼   ► but that band was, God, it was making me,

00:45:35 ◼   ► it was making me think about returning them,

00:45:36 ◼   ► I kept adjusting it, like if I make it super loose,

00:45:39 ◼   ► if I make it so the top doesn't even touch my head,

00:45:41 ◼   ► but it doesn't quite work,

00:45:41 ◼   ► because you do need something up there for support,

00:45:43 ◼   ► because they can't just stick to your ears from the pressure,

00:45:46 ◼   ► anyway, it was very, it didn't quite agree with my head,

00:45:50 ◼   ► I'm trying to work out what I'm gonna do about that,

00:45:53 ◼   ► but overall, the ear cup comfort was way better,

00:45:57 ◼   ► and the final thing, the noise canceling,

00:45:58 ◼   ► I think it was better than the Bose,

00:46:00 ◼   ► but the noise canceling had this weird thing,

00:46:02 ◼   ► during takeoff, when the engines are ramping up,

00:46:04 ◼   ► the noise canceling decided to send out

00:46:06 ◼   ► some of these terrible echolocation bursts of noise

00:46:10 ◼   ► into my ears, which was like,

00:46:12 ◼   ► just during takeoff,

00:46:16 ◼   ► when the noise levels were changing a lot,

00:46:17 ◼   ► like, is that a bug, is that a feature,

00:46:20 ◼   ► whatever it is, it was uncomfortable,

00:46:22 ◼   ► and it only happened during takeoff,

00:46:24 ◼   ► but it happened during both takeoffs,

00:46:26 ◼   ► so I don't know what the deal with that is,

00:46:28 ◼   ► but that was kind of uncomfortable,

00:46:29 ◼   ► but for the rest of the time, sound was fine,

00:46:32 ◼   ► noise canceling was even better than the Bose,

00:46:34 ◼   ► ear cup comfort was better,

00:46:35 ◼   ► I have problems with the headband.

00:46:37 ◼   ► - Wow, yeah, 'cause I use the previous version of that,

00:46:41 ◼   ► the W-whatever-whatever Mark II,

00:46:45 ◼   ► and there aren't many differences between the two,

00:46:47 ◼   ► like, they're almost identical,

00:46:50 ◼   ► and so I'm actually kind of surprised,

00:46:51 ◼   ► 'cause I haven't had those issues

00:46:53 ◼   ► with the fit with the headband,

00:46:54 ◼   ► I mean, maybe it's just I have a different hairstyle.

00:46:56 ◼   ► - It's different head size,

00:46:57 ◼   ► like, you should look at how much of the part

00:47:00 ◼   ► that you expose when you adjust it,

00:47:01 ◼   ► how much do you have exposed,

00:47:03 ◼   ► maybe you have much more or much less than I do,

00:47:04 ◼   ► and maybe the irritability of the hairs on top of my head

00:47:09 ◼   ► are different than yours.

00:47:10 ◼   ► - Maybe you need a thin silicone wrapper.

00:47:12 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:47:13 ◼   ► - I was thinking during the flight,

00:47:14 ◼   ► I'm like, what could I put up there,

00:47:16 ◼   ► if I put, you know, is it too slippery or not,

00:47:19 ◼   ► like, if I put a piece of felt

00:47:20 ◼   ► between the headphones in my head,

00:47:21 ◼   ► or if I, like, coated the band at the top of my head,

00:47:24 ◼   ► would I wanna make it slipperier or grippier,

00:47:26 ◼   ► I don't, you know, do I need an extra piece of padding again?

00:47:29 ◼   ► It's plenty padded up there,

00:47:30 ◼   ► it's not like it's a hard piece of plastic against my head,

00:47:32 ◼   ► it's mysterious, and the reason it reminded me

00:47:34 ◼   ► of the car headliner thing is because it's the type of thing

00:47:36 ◼   ► it's like, how can that even bother you?

00:47:38 ◼   ► Like, it's like a pillow on top of your head

00:47:41 ◼   ► with no weight on it, how is that bothering you,

00:47:43 ◼   ► and yet, just the tiny motions,

00:47:45 ◼   ► like you're inheriting the headliner

00:47:46 ◼   ► over the course of many hours,

00:47:47 ◼   ► eventually feels like the worst thing in the world,

00:47:49 ◼   ► it's like a pebble in your shoe, another example,

00:47:51 ◼   ► tiny little rock, you know, you're walking,

00:47:53 ◼   ► and like, you're building up the size of this thing

00:47:54 ◼   ► in your mind, so you finally take off your shoe

00:47:55 ◼   ► and you look at it, and it's like the size

00:47:57 ◼   ► of like a grain of sand, you know,

00:47:59 ◼   ► how did that feel so big in my shoe?

00:48:01 ◼   ► It's that type of situation.

00:48:02 ◼   ► - Well, I am glad, Marco, that you can feasibly carry

00:48:06 ◼   ► your AirPods with you always, and that sounds sarcastic,

00:48:09 ◼   ► but actually that has, that changed my life,

00:48:12 ◼   ► is a bit dramatic, but it has definitely improved my life

00:48:15 ◼   ► to always have headphones in my little change pocket

00:48:18 ◼   ► in my jeans, you know, pretty much all the time,

00:48:21 ◼   ► and you'd be surprised how often, like you were saying,

00:48:24 ◼   ► you know, you peel away from the family or something

00:48:26 ◼   ► like that, for a perfectly legitimate reason,

00:48:28 ◼   ► and then you think, well, I could catch up

00:48:29 ◼   ► on podcasts right now, or I could listen to music right now,

00:48:32 ◼   ► or whatever the case may be.

00:48:33 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:48:34 ◼   ► - I cannot overstate how much I love my AirPods,

00:48:37 ◼   ► and I genuinely think they're the best Apple product

00:48:40 ◼   ► of the last five to 10 years by a comfortable margin,

00:48:43 ◼   ► in my personal opinion.

00:48:44 ◼   ► - Like the Mandelbrot set, it changed the world

00:48:46 ◼   ► in a tiny way, I was so sick of catching

00:48:49 ◼   ► my headphone cords on things, so sick of that,

00:48:52 ◼   ► AirPods just rescued me from that life,

00:48:54 ◼   ► rescued me from the life of untangling the cords,

00:48:56 ◼   ► and it rescued me from the life of them,

00:48:57 ◼   ► getting caught on things and being yanked out of my ears.

00:49:00 ◼   ► Love it, can never go back.

00:49:01 ◼   ► - We respond to this week by Fracture,

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00:49:19 ◼   ► or our social feeds, very few actually get printed

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00:49:25 ◼   ► anywhere to actually be enjoyed for more than

00:49:27 ◼   ► like the two seconds in your social feed.

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00:49:31 ◼   ► that mean the most in your life

00:49:32 ◼   ► by turning your favorite memories into meaningful photos

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00:49:44 ◼   ► It goes edge to edge, there's no border,

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00:49:48 ◼   ► they are their own total complete object,

00:49:51 ◼   ► and they come ready to display right out of the box.

00:49:53 ◼   ► They even include the wall hanger for you right in the box.

00:49:56 ◼   ► And it's a very nice, thin, lightweight glass too,

00:50:00 ◼   ► so you don't have to worry about whether a big one

00:50:01 ◼   ► will pull out of your wall and fall off and break,

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00:50:05 ◼   ► they're very nice, big, lightweight things.

00:50:07 ◼   ► They are awesome, they also make amazing gifts.

00:50:10 ◼   ► So we have them all over our house,

00:50:11 ◼   ► and people compliment them all the time,

00:50:13 ◼   ► but we also give them as gifts a lot.

00:50:15 ◼   ► It's a great idea, like for relatives,

00:50:17 ◼   ► you know, give, send them a picture of your kid

00:50:19 ◼   ► or your dog or something, or send pictures to friends

00:50:21 ◼   ► of a time you had together,

00:50:22 ◼   ► like maybe on a vacation or something.

00:50:24 ◼   ► It's a great idea for gifts for all occasions,

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00:50:30 ◼   ► when we give them as gifts.

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00:51:00 ◼   ► and make sure that you tell them you came from ATP.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Fracture for sponsoring our show.

00:51:05 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:51:07 ◼   ► - We have heard many reports of a new 16-inch MacBook Pro

00:51:12 ◼   ► that is supposedly coming,

00:51:15 ◼   ► and there's a report at 9to5Mac from a couple of days ago

00:51:18 ◼   ► saying, yeah, this is a thing,

00:51:20 ◼   ► and there are a couple of specific tidbits,

00:51:23 ◼   ► including a report of a 3072 by 1920 resolution.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Marco, how excited are you?

00:51:30 ◼   ► - I am not excited about that screen resolution.

00:51:32 ◼   ► I'm very excited about everything else.

00:51:34 ◼   ► Everything else about this,

00:51:36 ◼   ► the rumors have been pretty strong on this one

00:51:40 ◼   ► from multiple different sources

00:51:41 ◼   ► over the last couple of months

00:51:43 ◼   ► that it really does seem like,

00:51:45 ◼   ► where there's smoke, there's fire thing,

00:51:48 ◼   ► there is very likely to be a redesigned MacBook Pro

00:51:52 ◼   ► for the first time since 2016,

00:51:54 ◼   ► coming out sometime between this fall and next spring.

00:51:58 ◼   ► The last redesign, the 2016 one,

00:52:00 ◼   ► as you know, I'm not really a big fan.

00:52:02 ◼   ► - Oh, really?

00:52:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, not a fan of the touch bar,

00:52:04 ◼   ► not a fan of the butterfly keyboard,

00:52:07 ◼   ► and the most recent rumors seem to indicate

00:52:11 ◼   ► that the touch bar is actually staying,

00:52:13 ◼   ► but we might be getting a hardware escape key next to it.

00:52:17 ◼   ► More importantly, we might be getting a new keyboard

00:52:21 ◼   ► that uses scissor switches with one millimeter of travel,

00:52:24 ◼   ► which is about twice the travel of the butterfly keyboard.

00:52:27 ◼   ► Overall, very similar in many ways

00:52:29 ◼   ► to the most recent desktop Magic keyboards

00:52:32 ◼   ► that Apple has shipped,

00:52:33 ◼   ► which have been widely recognized

00:52:35 ◼   ► as pretty decent keyboards, pretty agreeable.

00:52:37 ◼   ► Not everyone totally loves them,

00:52:40 ◼   ► but most people are pretty big fans.

00:52:41 ◼   ► No one really hates them, like they're fine,

00:52:44 ◼   ► and that's what you need a laptop keyboard to be,

00:52:45 ◼   ► and that's what we haven't had for the last few years.

00:52:48 ◼   ► Even if they've solved the reliability problems,

00:52:50 ◼   ► which I think is still too early to say,

00:52:52 ◼   ► they still failed to make a keyboard last time

00:52:55 ◼   ► that everyone was okay with.

00:52:57 ◼   ► Now they have a chance to do that again,

00:52:58 ◼   ► and the rumors all suggest

00:53:00 ◼   ► that they are probably doing that.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Additionally, as I mentioned I think last week,

00:53:05 ◼   ► this will be the first laptop

00:53:06 ◼   ► that has most likely been designed

00:53:09 ◼   ► after the formation of the Pro Workflows team.

00:53:13 ◼   ► And the Pro Workflows team has produced

00:53:15 ◼   ► such wonderful things as maybe the iMac Pro,

00:53:19 ◼   ► I'm not sure if they were there late enough

00:53:21 ◼   ► or early enough for that,

00:53:22 ◼   ► but they were definitely there to influence things

00:53:24 ◼   ► like the new Mac Mini and the new Mac Pro.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And those are both really, really good products

00:53:29 ◼   ► that did things and added things and kept things

00:53:33 ◼   ► that we never would have guessed

00:53:36 ◼   ► the 2016 era Apple would have done.

00:53:39 ◼   ► Things that customers wanted and needed,

00:53:41 ◼   ► but Apple back then was in the mood

00:53:43 ◼   ► of taking a lot of things away

00:53:46 ◼   ► and pushing things really aggressively, quote, forward,

00:53:50 ◼   ► in ways that we didn't all agree were the way forward.

00:53:53 ◼   ► But this is the first thing in a new series,

00:53:58 ◼   ► and I cannot wait to see what it is.

00:54:00 ◼   ► Good or bad, I at least just want to see movement.

00:54:03 ◼   ► And I think I have faith,

00:54:05 ◼   ► based on how they've done the last few new releases

00:54:07 ◼   ► like this, it's probably gonna be really good.

00:54:10 ◼   ► Now about that screen resolution.

00:54:12 ◼   ► The one thing that's bugged me

00:54:14 ◼   ► about the Retina MacBook Pro screens,

00:54:17 ◼   ► ever since their introduction in 2012,

00:54:20 ◼   ► is that in the last few models of the pre-Retina age,

00:54:24 ◼   ► Apple increased the point density of the screens.

00:54:29 ◼   ► You could see this in the original MacBook Air,

00:54:32 ◼   ► which was like, I think, 1366 by 768, something like that,

00:54:36 ◼   ► the 13 inch version.

00:54:38 ◼   ► And then right before they went Retina,

00:54:41 ◼   ► the 15 inch could be had with a 1680 by 1050 screen,

00:54:44 ◼   ► and the 17 inch could be had with a 1920, I think?

00:54:47 ◼   ► Yeah, a 1920 by 1200 screen.

00:54:50 ◼   ► The resolution, the horizontal resolution of the 15 inch

00:54:53 ◼   ► was 1680 points across.

00:54:55 ◼   ► When they went Retina in 2012,

00:54:59 ◼   ► the effective, the number of pixels went up

00:55:01 ◼   ► 'cause it went Retina, but the effective point width

00:55:05 ◼   ► went down from 1680 back down to 1440,

00:55:08 ◼   ► where it was a few years earlier

00:55:11 ◼   ► in the regular non-Retina lineup.

00:55:14 ◼   ► And as the rest of the lineup went Retina,

00:55:17 ◼   ► that same step back happened.

00:55:20 ◼   ► It happened on the 13 inch,

00:55:22 ◼   ► it eventually happened even to the Air

00:55:24 ◼   ► when that went Retina.

00:55:26 ◼   ► That didn't happen on the desktops, mind you.

00:55:27 ◼   ► When the iMac 5K came out, and later the iMac 4K,

00:55:30 ◼   ► that same step back did not happen.

00:55:33 ◼   ► They went exactly double the number of points

00:55:35 ◼   ► they were pre-Retina.

00:55:37 ◼   ► So we know that it's possible not to do that on the desktop,

00:55:40 ◼   ► and they didn't.

00:55:41 ◼   ► On the laptops, they made that step backwards.

00:55:44 ◼   ► At the time, like, you know, 2012 was three years before,

00:55:48 ◼   ► or two years before it ever came to the desktop,

00:55:50 ◼   ► and two and a half years before it came to the desktop.

00:55:54 ◼   ► And so it kind of made sense back then,

00:55:56 ◼   ► like, well, it's still really new technology,

00:55:58 ◼   ► maybe there are concerns about economics

00:56:00 ◼   ► of the screen panels, or quality of the colors,

00:56:03 ◼   ► or battery concerns of having more

00:56:05 ◼   ► pixels to drive or whatever else.

00:56:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, battery concerns is what Apple cited, by the way.

00:56:09 ◼   ► That when we asked that question

00:56:10 ◼   ► at the introduction of the Retina,

00:56:11 ◼   ► it was like, well, there's just so many more transistors,

00:56:13 ◼   ► battery is why we did this,

00:56:14 ◼   ► and everyone basically accepted it.

00:56:15 ◼   ► - Right, and they also, they introduced these scaling modes

00:56:18 ◼   ► at the same time, where you could,

00:56:21 ◼   ► for the first time ever in their laptops,

00:56:23 ◼   ► you could simulate higher resolutions

00:56:25 ◼   ► than what the panel actually supported,

00:56:27 ◼   ► using these new GPU accelerated scaling modes

00:56:29 ◼   ► that it would basically render the image

00:56:32 ◼   ► to a, I think like a 4X or 3X buffer,

00:56:36 ◼   ► like it would render it to a higher buffer,

00:56:38 ◼   ► and then scale it back to the physical pixels of the screen.

00:56:40 ◼   ► It's the same technique that was used later

00:56:42 ◼   ► in the iPhone 6 Plus, and the 6, 7, and 8 Plus

00:56:46 ◼   ► all used it until we finally got true 3X

00:56:48 ◼   ► in the iPhone 10 series.

00:56:49 ◼   ► But anyway, they did this pixel scaling mode,

00:56:52 ◼   ► where the native pixel resolution for the 15 inch

00:56:57 ◼   ► was indeed stepped back to the 1440 points at 2X density,

00:57:02 ◼   ► but you could set it to the way the old ones used to look

00:57:05 ◼   ► at 6 and 8, and it would just kind of like

00:57:08 ◼   ► blur the pixels to look to fit the panels,

00:57:11 ◼   ► to make it look kind of like that.

00:57:13 ◼   ► But it never looked as good as when you were running it

00:57:16 ◼   ► in the true native 2X format.

00:57:19 ◼   ► Like it never, they never had it exactly as sharp

00:57:24 ◼   ► and as nice looking as when you were running it at 1440

00:57:27 ◼   ► at the native 2X scale.

00:57:28 ◼   ► When the 2016 era models came out,

00:57:31 ◼   ► starting with actually the 2015 MacBook One,

00:57:34 ◼   ► like with the MacBook One, and then following into 2016,

00:57:38 ◼   ► the Touch Bar generation of MacBook Pros,

00:57:40 ◼   ► and later the MacBook Air, they actually set

00:57:43 ◼   ► the one step up scaling mode as the default

00:57:47 ◼   ► screen resolution the way they shipped.

00:57:50 ◼   ► So by default, since 2016, and for every 12 inch MacBook,

00:57:55 ◼   ► they have shipped in a mode where the screen

00:57:56 ◼   ► is a little bit blurry and not as good as it could be.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Because they just haven't put enough pixels into it

00:58:03 ◼   ► to make it have true 2X retina clarity

00:58:08 ◼   ► without using blurry scaling modes

00:58:10 ◼   ► at the default resolutions they've been shipping,

00:58:12 ◼   ► which to me is a crime.

00:58:15 ◼   ► On the 12 inch, you can kind of forgive it

00:58:17 ◼   ► because regardless of what they charge for it,

00:58:19 ◼   ► that's a budget machine, like it has budget parts,

00:58:22 ◼   ► it's a low end machine in lots of ways.

00:58:25 ◼   ► So it kind of makes sense on that, it kind of makes sense

00:58:27 ◼   ► on the Air, 'cause the Air is also there

00:58:28 ◼   ► to hit a low price point.

00:58:30 ◼   ► But on the MacBook Pro, the 13 inch and 15 inch Pro,

00:58:34 ◼   ► I don't think we need to be doing that anymore.

00:58:36 ◼   ► And the desktops prove that we don't have to do it.

00:58:39 ◼   ► Like the 5K iMac and later the 4K iMac proved,

00:58:42 ◼   ► it isn't just like, oh we won't notice,

00:58:44 ◼   ► we can get away with it, or nobody wants it.

00:58:46 ◼   ► No, we want it, and we do notice, they didn't do

00:58:50 ◼   ► the scaling mode by default on the desktops,

00:58:52 ◼   ► because it's better not to.

00:58:54 ◼   ► So on the laptops, we're sitting here,

00:58:56 ◼   ► we're enduring this 2012 era screen density all this time.

00:59:00 ◼   ► In the next generation, surely it's time now.

00:59:04 ◼   ► Surely now, whatever factors are at play,

00:59:08 ◼   ► we can afford to step up the pixels by whatever it be,

00:59:12 ◼   ► like 20% in each dimension.

00:59:14 ◼   ► It's not like we're doubling it again,

00:59:16 ◼   ► like it's adding like 20% in each dimension

00:59:18 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:59:19 ◼   ► Surely we can do that now, and the cost is able

00:59:24 ◼   ► to be spent on that now, in both battery and economics

00:59:26 ◼   ► of the panels, surely.

00:59:28 ◼   ► The only thing I don't like about this new rumor

00:59:31 ◼   ► is that it quotes the screen resolution

00:59:34 ◼   ► in a way that almost certainly suggests

00:59:36 ◼   ► that they haven't done this, that they're sticking

00:59:39 ◼   ► with the same thing of just scaling all the time by default,

00:59:42 ◼   ► and just accepting that the panel's just gonna be blurry.

00:59:45 ◼   ► And I'm not okay with that.

00:59:47 ◼   ► After all this time, I mean yeah,

00:59:50 ◼   ► I'm gonna buy this thing anyway,

00:59:51 ◼   ► 'cause I just can't wait to get a new keyboard.

00:59:53 ◼   ► But that was like one little nitpick that I've had

00:59:58 ◼   ► since 2012 that I thought they would've solved by now.

01:00:01 ◼   ► And they put so much effort and marketing and promotion

01:00:04 ◼   ► into having these really awesome screens

01:00:07 ◼   ► in these other ways, like in color and contrast

01:00:10 ◼   ► and HDR and color profiles and wide gamut and all that.

01:00:14 ◼   ► They do all this amazing stuff with the screen,

01:00:17 ◼   ► but now they're just a little bit blurry all the time

01:00:19 ◼   ► because we can't have all the pixels

01:00:20 ◼   ► that they actually are kind of BSE claiming that they have

01:00:24 ◼   ► by having it be the default mode.

01:00:26 ◼   ► Like that's not okay.

01:00:28 ◼   ► And they can do better than that,

01:00:29 ◼   ► and they should do better than that.

01:00:31 ◼   ► - So I think the iMac is not,

01:00:33 ◼   ► I mean the iMac is a different scenario

01:00:35 ◼   ► because you don't have battery power

01:00:37 ◼   ► and you have more depth.

01:00:38 ◼   ► So I'm not sure, if you were to ask Apple,

01:00:41 ◼   ► I bet their answer would still be the same

01:00:42 ◼   ► as it was in 2013, which is in a very, very thin screen

01:00:46 ◼   ► like this with battery constraints,

01:00:48 ◼   ► if we put all those transistors behind there

01:00:50 ◼   ► for the actual 2X scaling of the resolution you want,

01:00:54 ◼   ► it would hurt us in battery life.

01:00:55 ◼   ► And of course our answer would be

01:00:56 ◼   ► make the damn thing one millimeter thicker and be quiet,

01:00:59 ◼   ► but you know Apple.

01:01:01 ◼   ► So when I saw this rumor, I was at least glad

01:01:05 ◼   ► that it wasn't going to be 1440 by 900 points, right?

01:01:09 ◼   ► - Just larger?

01:01:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is a larger physical screen

01:01:13 ◼   ► and it has more pixels than the smaller one,

01:01:16 ◼   ► which made me hope that if I was ever forced

01:01:18 ◼   ► to use one of these for work,

01:01:19 ◼   ► which is the only way I would probably ever have

01:01:20 ◼   ► one of these, that I would be able to put it at native 2X

01:01:25 ◼   ► and not feel like I don't have enough room.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Obviously this at 2X would not be the same

01:01:31 ◼   ► as the resolution you wanted, you know,

01:01:33 ◼   ► 1680 by 1050 points, right?

01:01:36 ◼   ► It's not quite the same,

01:01:38 ◼   ► but it's better than the current 15 inch

01:01:40 ◼   ► if you put it at native 2X.

01:01:42 ◼   ► And so I'm hoping that if I go into the store

01:01:45 ◼   ► and set this one to native 2X and I look at it

01:01:47 ◼   ► and go like, nah, I think I can live with that.

01:01:49 ◼   ► It's reasonable, especially as I get older,

01:01:51 ◼   ► like the fact that everything would be slightly larger

01:01:54 ◼   ► at that 2X resolution, but there would be a more screen

01:01:56 ◼   ► that maybe it would be worthwhile.

01:01:58 ◼   ► But I agree, I think there,

01:02:00 ◼   ► the fact that there hasn't been an Apple laptop

01:02:04 ◼   ► with a native point, you know,

01:02:07 ◼   ► when the LCD is running at native res,

01:02:09 ◼   ► has a point resolution that matches the previous 15 inch,

01:02:12 ◼   ► let alone the 17 inch, 17 inch, by the way,

01:02:13 ◼   ► was 1920 by 1200 native pixels, right?

01:02:17 ◼   ► There hasn't been a display with that number of points,

01:02:20 ◼   ► point dimensions at native res since 2013.

01:02:25 ◼   ► And that's not a good streak.

01:02:27 ◼   ► And I, you know, power is honestly the only thing

01:02:30 ◼   ► I can think of because we know they can make a display

01:02:32 ◼   ► like this and I imagine they can make it just as thin.

01:02:35 ◼   ► It's just a question of how much more battery power

01:02:37 ◼   ► we're taking, people would pay.

01:02:38 ◼   ► I mean, maybe does this mean they need to bring back

01:02:40 ◼   ► the 17 inch, right?

01:02:41 ◼   ► And then make a, maybe they'll feel okay

01:02:43 ◼   ► about making that one thicker,

01:02:44 ◼   ► or maybe they won't have to make it thicker

01:02:46 ◼   ► because it'll have more, you know,

01:02:47 ◼   ► just have more surface area to put battery in.

01:02:50 ◼   ► I don't know, but I think it's another gap in their lineup

01:02:53 ◼   ► and hopefully they'll fill it somehow.

01:02:56 ◼   ► - Well, and it just, it seems too like this could be

01:02:58 ◼   ► a nice differentiator for the pro line.

01:03:01 ◼   ► Like, and you would think the pro workflow team

01:03:04 ◼   ► would bring this up at some point.

01:03:07 ◼   ► Like, yeah, you know what the fact is,

01:03:08 ◼   ► like these screens being scaled does kind of suck.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Also, like, the scaling is not free.

01:03:13 ◼   ► The scaling has a computational cost on the GPU to achieve.

01:03:17 ◼   ► And so, like, at some point, surely, like,

01:03:21 ◼   ► the cost of driving the more pixels has to, like,

01:03:24 ◼   ► you know, outweigh that, right?

01:03:25 ◼   ► I don't know, it's just--

01:03:26 ◼   ► - Nah, it's much cheaper to do that computation

01:03:28 ◼   ► in some dedicated hardware on the GPU

01:03:30 ◼   ► and some little dinky thing than to actually

01:03:34 ◼   ► do the transition in those spaces.

01:03:35 ◼   ► I have to imagine that that's the power thing.

01:03:37 ◼   ► And honestly, I think that's, their explanation

01:03:41 ◼   ► would be both the power and also the idea that,

01:03:45 ◼   ► yeah, it's blurrier, but like, most people can't tell,

01:03:48 ◼   ► just like no one could tell that the six plus

01:03:50 ◼   ► was not at native res, just because everything was so small.

01:03:53 ◼   ► And I imagine that the number of people

01:03:55 ◼   ► who can tell the difference between the native 2x

01:03:58 ◼   ► and the one step down from it is also probably very small

01:04:01 ◼   ► and will eventually not include you

01:04:03 ◼   ► as your eyes get worse with age.

01:04:05 ◼   ► So I can kind of see where they're coming from,

01:04:07 ◼   ► but to your other point, it's like,

01:04:09 ◼   ► well, then why not do that on everything?

01:04:11 ◼   ► Why not make the $7000 display non-native?

01:04:13 ◼   ► Why not make the iMac 5K non-native?

01:04:15 ◼   ► It's like, you don't because it is actually better this way.

01:04:17 ◼   ► So there should be one, how about,

01:04:19 ◼   ► there should be one model that Apple sells

01:04:22 ◼   ► that, again, can match the point density

01:04:26 ◼   ► at native res of the old 15 inch.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - Right. (laughs)

01:04:29 ◼   ► - We're not even saying there has to be one model

01:04:31 ◼   ► that matches the 17.

01:04:32 ◼   ► - If there's any model that should do it,

01:04:34 ◼   ► it should be this one.

01:04:36 ◼   ► So I hope this rumor is wrong.

01:04:39 ◼   ► I don't have, I mean, honestly, my confidence isn't high

01:04:42 ◼   ► because usually when Ming-Chi Kuo quotes

01:04:44 ◼   ► a screen resolution, it's usually correct.

01:04:47 ◼   ► So that's, I'm not, I don't have high hopes here,

01:04:50 ◼   ► but I really am hoping that this rumor's wrong

01:04:53 ◼   ► and that they actually have increased it

01:04:54 ◼   ► to be what it should be and kind of what they're selling.

01:04:57 ◼   ► Like, the fact that it's the default mode

01:05:01 ◼   ► surely suggests to people that this is what the screen

01:05:04 ◼   ► is actually pulling off, and the fact that it's not,

01:05:06 ◼   ► I find BSE, and I'm not comfortable with them selling it

01:05:11 ◼   ► in scaling mode by default and saying,

01:05:12 ◼   ► here, look at how great the screen is,

01:05:14 ◼   ► and it's like they're intentionally hobbling it

01:05:16 ◼   ► just to achieve a faked increase in screen real estate,

01:05:22 ◼   ► really, and I want it to be real.

01:05:24 ◼   ► - I think they might sell this one at native 2X, though,

01:05:27 ◼   ► because it's like, it's 1536 points across,

01:05:30 ◼   ► which is not 1680, but maybe they'll actually sell it,

01:05:34 ◼   ► maybe the default will be 2X.

01:05:35 ◼   ► I mean, maybe, but that would make it look,

01:05:38 ◼   ► it would make it look significantly different

01:05:40 ◼   ► and less advanced than all the ones next to it

01:05:44 ◼   ► in the Apple store.

01:05:45 ◼   ► - Well, it would make the screen look clearer,

01:05:46 ◼   ► and it would make everything on it look bigger,

01:05:48 ◼   ► and clearer and bigger is actually a selling point

01:05:50 ◼   ► for a lot of customers when it comes

01:05:52 ◼   ► to displays on laptops.

01:05:53 ◼   ► - That's true, although most of those customers

01:05:55 ◼   ► probably aren't buying the highest-ed model in the store.

01:05:57 ◼   ► - I don't know, I mean, yeah, I don't wanna say.

01:06:00 ◼   ► Like, scaling mode's like, I don't think Apple

01:06:03 ◼   ► has these stats, but I wonder how many people

01:06:06 ◼   ► run their phones at like the bigger mode,

01:06:08 ◼   ► you know, during setup when it asks you,

01:06:09 ◼   ► do you want this to be bigger?

01:06:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, display zoom.

01:06:12 ◼   ► - Like, if you've ever watched anyone go through

01:06:14 ◼   ► that process with no input from you

01:06:16 ◼   ► and just like letting them pick what they want,

01:06:18 ◼   ► they look at the two, and as far as they're concerned,

01:06:20 ◼   ► they want the one where the pictures are bigger.

01:06:23 ◼   ► Like, the nuances of what that means,

01:06:26 ◼   ► like, here's one showing a bunch of apps,

01:06:28 ◼   ► and here's one showing a bunch of apps,

01:06:29 ◼   ► but each app is bigger.

01:06:29 ◼   ► It's like, oh, I want the one where they're bigger.

01:06:31 ◼   ► That is their only concern.

01:06:33 ◼   ► The nuances of nativeness don't factor into it,

01:06:36 ◼   ► nor does the idea that if they're bigger

01:06:37 ◼   ► that you can see fewer of them.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Like, it's just an obvious choice.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Oh, bigger, why would anyone pick the smaller one?

01:06:43 ◼   ► And so it's a different set of values

01:06:46 ◼   ► that leads to those decisions.

01:06:47 ◼   ► So I really do wonder if native 2X

01:06:49 ◼   ► where everything's slightly bigger

01:06:51 ◼   ► would actually be seen as a benefit of the 16 inch.

01:06:53 ◼   ► I mean, you know, the screen itself is bigger,

01:06:56 ◼   ► and it doesn't make sense that the things

01:06:58 ◼   ► on the screen are also bigger,

01:06:59 ◼   ► and also it seems a little bit sharper for some reason.

01:07:02 ◼   ► So maybe that's the selling point.

01:07:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm interested to see what this laptop brings.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Like I said earlier, I am casually in the market

01:07:11 ◼   ► for a MacBook Adorable replacement,

01:07:13 ◼   ► and to go all the way to a 16 inch

01:07:15 ◼   ► is probably not gonna be the answer,

01:07:17 ◼   ► but I at least wanna see what this brings,

01:07:20 ◼   ► and if it's the sort of thing where this is the Halo car

01:07:23 ◼   ► of the MacBook Pro family,

01:07:25 ◼   ► and has something that I'm really interested in,

01:07:28 ◼   ► say, a new keyboard, which I'm not as, you know,

01:07:30 ◼   ► angry about as Marco is,

01:07:33 ◼   ► but still a more reliable keyboard sounds good to me.

01:07:36 ◼   ► You know, if that arrives in the 16 in the fall,

01:07:38 ◼   ► then maybe I would wait until the spring to get like,

01:07:40 ◼   ► you know, what would hopefully be a new Adorable

01:07:42 ◼   ► or maybe even a 13 inch MacBook Pro at that point

01:07:45 ◼   ► that has, you know, the same keyboard

01:07:46 ◼   ► and a similar setup.

01:07:47 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:07:48 ◼   ► I'm curious to see this for sure though,

01:07:50 ◼   ► and like you had said, Marco,

01:07:51 ◼   ► this is something new, and new is always exciting.

01:07:53 ◼   ► So I'm very curious to see it.

01:07:55 ◼   ► - Speaking of Halo car,

01:07:58 ◼   ► and given our recent Mac Pro musings,

01:08:01 ◼   ► as this opens, remembering that the non-retina 15 inch

01:08:05 ◼   ► that Marco was talking about,

01:08:07 ◼   ► that higher point, higher resolution screen was an option.

01:08:12 ◼   ► It wasn't the default screen.

01:08:14 ◼   ► So Apple could offer this laptop with this screen

01:08:17 ◼   ► at this exact resolution,

01:08:19 ◼   ► and then have as an option, an upgrade option,

01:08:21 ◼   ► a native 2X display with a higher point density,

01:08:25 ◼   ► and that upgrade option could be $7,000.

01:08:27 ◼   ► - And there you go.

01:08:28 ◼   ► There's your Halo car laptop.

01:08:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, the funny thing, like the option back then,

01:08:32 ◼   ► two things about those that are interesting,

01:08:33 ◼   ► the option back then was actually very inexpensive.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I think it was like $150.

01:08:37 ◼   ► It was very inexpensive to go from the 1440 screen

01:08:40 ◼   ► to the 1680 screen, and more interestingly,

01:08:42 ◼   ► the 1680 screen came in two finishes, matte or glossy.

01:08:46 ◼   ► - And the finishes weren't an extra cost.

01:08:48 ◼   ► The matte one didn't cost an extra $1,000?

01:08:50 ◼   ► Hmm, weird.

01:08:51 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, and the total upgrade cost was like $150 or $200.

01:08:54 ◼   ► It was in that ballpark.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And yeah, but man, if they offered this

01:08:59 ◼   ► with a higher resolution screen and a matte option,

01:09:04 ◼   ► I mean, $7,000 would be excessive,

01:09:06 ◼   ► but what do you think would actually be

01:09:10 ◼   ► a reasonable price for that

01:09:11 ◼   ► that Apple would actually also charge?

01:09:13 ◼   ► So both reasonable and also realistic for Apple these days?

01:09:17 ◼   ► I think $400 extra?

01:09:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, $500 is what I was gonna say.

01:09:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, same, I was gonna say $500.

01:09:23 ◼   ► - And I'm just saying for the resolution,

01:09:25 ◼   ► like for the nano texture, I would say five and up.

01:09:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:09:29 ◼   ► Maybe 600.

01:09:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know about the nano texture.

01:09:32 ◼   ► I feel like the nano texture is all about

01:09:35 ◼   ► people in a particular environment

01:09:36 ◼   ► where they really need to see what it looks like

01:09:38 ◼   ► and they want to really take down,

01:09:40 ◼   ► I mean, I guess it's more important on a laptop

01:09:42 ◼   ► than a desktop, but I feel like the things

01:09:44 ◼   ► that motivated the weird nano texture

01:09:45 ◼   ► for the Mac Pro display or the XDR or whatever,

01:09:49 ◼   ► maybe aren't at play because those same people would say,

01:09:53 ◼   ► well, I don't care what you do with your laptop,

01:09:54 ◼   ► it's not like I'm gonna use one of those

01:09:55 ◼   ► to do my work on my feature film or whatever

01:09:58 ◼   ► because I'll be in the studio

01:10:00 ◼   ► and I'll be staring at a much larger screen,

01:10:01 ◼   ► but who knows?

01:10:02 ◼   ► Well, now that they have the nano technology,

01:10:05 ◼   ► the nano texture technology in their toolbox,

01:10:10 ◼   ► maybe they'll just apply it to everything

01:10:11 ◼   ► and add astronomical markup to all their products.

01:10:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:10:16 ◼   ► - On one hand, you need it for the laptop more than ever

01:10:19 ◼   ► because you are in environments

01:10:21 ◼   ► with varied lighting with laptops.

01:10:23 ◼   ► On the other hand, I would imagine the nano texture

01:10:26 ◼   ► is gonna have a problem with cleaning and fingerprints.

01:10:30 ◼   ► - If you're not supposed to touch it.

01:10:31 ◼   ► Now, I don't know the answer to that.

01:10:32 ◼   ► Do any of you know, I didn't actually ask the people

01:10:35 ◼   ► in the room of like, I had heard lots of people saying,

01:10:37 ◼   ► oh, you're really, really not supposed

01:10:39 ◼   ► to touch the nano texture, but then I can't tell

01:10:41 ◼   ► if that's just saying like, since it costs $1,000,

01:10:44 ◼   ► haha, keep people's grubby fingers away

01:10:45 ◼   ► from your $1,000 finish, or if there's an actual issue

01:10:48 ◼   ► in that if you get grease in it, cleaning it is difficult

01:10:51 ◼   ► because you're not supposed to like rub it or something.

01:10:53 ◼   ► I have no idea what's the truth there.

01:10:55 ◼   ► - It actually, they provide a cleaning cloth in the box,

01:10:59 ◼   ► and it isn't $1,000.

01:11:01 ◼   ► They don't provide the stand.

01:11:03 ◼   ► - But everything comes with a cleaning cloth.

01:11:04 ◼   ► My Thunderbolt display came with a cleaning cloth.

01:11:06 ◼   ► Right, that's fine.

01:11:07 ◼   ► I just wanna know like, if someone does touch your screen,

01:11:11 ◼   ► is it any harder to clean than just a regular glass screen?

01:11:15 ◼   ► - Well, you have to hold it at a 70 degree angle.

01:11:17 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:18 ◼   ► - Speaking of touching laptop screens,

01:11:20 ◼   ► so I have the Air in the house

01:11:22 ◼   ► that is technically the homework laptop.

01:11:23 ◼   ► I think it's called like homework laptop or something.

01:11:25 ◼   ► So the kids use it.

01:11:26 ◼   ► For the most part, I'm pretty sure none of them

01:11:30 ◼   ► are touching the screen like, you know,

01:11:32 ◼   ► accidentally or habitually, like,

01:11:35 ◼   ► because they think it's a touchscreen,

01:11:36 ◼   ► 'cause they're not really habituated

01:11:38 ◼   ► to use touchscreen laptops.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Granted, they use their iPads all the time,

01:11:42 ◼   ► but I don't think they're actually touching it like,

01:11:43 ◼   ► oh, I thought I get it the okay button, right?

01:11:46 ◼   ► But the entire frame of the display

01:11:50 ◼   ► is covered in fingerprints.

01:11:52 ◼   ► It looks worse than any of their iPads,

01:11:54 ◼   ► because they like, I don't know, they have grubby hands.

01:11:58 ◼   ► And for some reason, like, well, I know my daughter

01:12:01 ◼   ► picks up the laptop by the screen,

01:12:03 ◼   ► which is why she destroyed.

01:12:04 ◼   ► She picks up the screen all the time.

01:12:06 ◼   ► And that's how she destroyed the 2011 laptop.

01:12:08 ◼   ► She destroyed the 2011 laptop by dropping it,

01:12:11 ◼   ► but also by repeatedly picking it up by the screen.

01:12:13 ◼   ► So the hinge became incredibly loose,

01:12:16 ◼   ► but then the dropping is what eventually cracked the screen.

01:12:18 ◼   ► But yeah, like, a huge amount of grease.

01:12:21 ◼   ► And I think about cleaning it sometimes,

01:12:22 ◼   ► I'm like, why bother?

01:12:23 ◼   ► Like, in a week, it's gonna look like that again.

01:12:24 ◼   ► But now it's getting to the point where I'm like,

01:12:26 ◼   ► have I waited too long?

01:12:27 ◼   ► Has this screen gone over?

01:12:28 ◼   ► Like, is it now impossible to remove the finger grease

01:12:31 ◼   ► that has accumulated on the screen?

01:12:32 ◼   ► Like, if I were to try to clean it,

01:12:34 ◼   ► would I be removing, like, whatever sort of anti-glare

01:12:37 ◼   ► finishes on the screen?

01:12:41 ◼   ► I think that the grease is now a structural element

01:12:43 ◼   ► of the screen, and I can never remove it.

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01:14:44 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:14:47 ◼   ► - Alrighty, Jack Fried, Friedeye, I hope I have that right.

01:14:51 ◼   ► Do you think Apple would or could re-implement

01:14:53 ◼   ► target display mode on the iMac maybe this fall

01:14:55 ◼   ► in order to make a lower end display available

01:14:57 ◼   ► for the Mac Pro?

01:14:59 ◼   ► Would that be a solution for you?

01:15:01 ◼   ► I mean, I guess anything is possible,

01:15:04 ◼   ► but I don't personally see them coming back

01:15:07 ◼   ► to target display mode possibly ever on an iMac.

01:15:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think they would either.

01:15:13 ◼   ► For a number of reasons.

01:15:14 ◼   ► So this was kind of a big deal because when

01:15:17 ◼   ► the 27 inch iMac first came up, non-retina,

01:15:20 ◼   ► the regular 27 inch iMac, this was at the time

01:15:22 ◼   ► when there were no 27 inch 2560 by 1440

01:15:27 ◼   ► or 1680 monitors on the market.

01:15:30 ◼   ► The only ones you can get that had the 2560 pixels across

01:15:33 ◼   ► were the 30 inch class monitors at Apple

01:15:35 ◼   ► and a few other companies like HP sold.

01:15:37 ◼   ► The 27 inch iMac had that same resolution

01:15:40 ◼   ► in a smaller panel.

01:15:42 ◼   ► Actually, it lopped at the bottom a little bit.

01:15:43 ◼   ► It went to 1690 instead of 1610 or whatever it is.

01:15:46 ◼   ► But anyway, so it was 2560 across by 1440

01:15:50 ◼   ► and it was an awesome panel.

01:15:51 ◼   ► It was way brighter, better contrast

01:15:53 ◼   ► and whatever else than the 30 inch.

01:15:55 ◼   ► And when it came out, the iMac with this panel in it

01:15:59 ◼   ► cost less than the 30 inch monitor did alone.

01:16:03 ◼   ► And it included this with a quote free computer

01:16:05 ◼   ► behind it basically.

01:16:07 ◼   ► So there was actually strong demand for people

01:16:11 ◼   ► who wanted this kind of monitor

01:16:12 ◼   ► and all these amazing specs on it

01:16:14 ◼   ► and this was before Apple sold it separately

01:16:16 ◼   ► as what later became the Thunderbolt display.

01:16:18 ◼   ► They had this target display mode

01:16:21 ◼   ► where you could, I think, hold down a certain key combination

01:16:24 ◼   ► or something and you could plug a computer into the iMac

01:16:28 ◼   ► and just use the iMac screen as that computer's monitor.

01:16:31 ◼   ► So because there was this kind of demand for this,

01:16:33 ◼   ► I know I heard a few people who tried it,

01:16:36 ◼   ► but it wasn't actually very good

01:16:38 ◼   ► because first of all, it was kind of wasteful conceptually

01:16:43 ◼   ► in the sense that you were buying a computer

01:16:45 ◼   ► to not use the computer part of it ever really

01:16:48 ◼   ► and to plug some other computer into it.

01:16:50 ◼   ► If you wanted to use both, like to have the iMac

01:16:52 ◼   ► and maybe have a laptop,

01:16:54 ◼   ► you couldn't leave the iMac booted in this mode.

01:16:56 ◼   ► You'd have to reboot it into target display mode, I think.

01:16:59 ◼   ► So that was kind of weird.

01:17:01 ◼   ► And also, if the computer part of it broke

01:17:04 ◼   ► or somehow went wrong,

01:17:06 ◼   ► target display mode wouldn't work either.

01:17:08 ◼   ► And so you kind of had to rely on that computer

01:17:10 ◼   ► working forever.

01:17:12 ◼   ► And this was also before SSDs.

01:17:13 ◼   ► There was like a spinning hard drive back there

01:17:15 ◼   ► just spinning around doing nothing.

01:17:17 ◼   ► It was kind of a crappy solution.

01:17:19 ◼   ► It wasn't a great way to get a 27-inch display.

01:17:22 ◼   ► And it lasted until Retina came.

01:17:24 ◼   ► And when Retina came, it went away.

01:17:26 ◼   ► And there were lots of good reasons for that.

01:17:29 ◼   ► At the time that the 5K Retina iMac launched in 2014,

01:17:32 ◼   ► there was no cable standard

01:17:34 ◼   ► that could drive at a full resolution.

01:17:36 ◼   ► Like Thunderbolt 2, I don't think could do it.

01:17:37 ◼   ► These days, a Thunderbolt 3 cable could do it.

01:17:40 ◼   ► So theoretically, the modern iMacs

01:17:43 ◼   ► that have Thunderbolt 3 ports

01:17:45 ◼   ► could theoretically offer this.

01:17:47 ◼   ► But I think the hardware wiring and support for it

01:17:52 ◼   ► would be non-trivial.

01:17:55 ◼   ► And I think just not a lot of people

01:17:56 ◼   ► actually ended up using it