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361: A Button in the Thumb Shelf

 

00:00:00 ◼   ► Were you bitten by a radioactive spider? Speaking of spiders? Because you could be gaining superhuman hearing abilities.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Can you like run much faster and leap higher than you could before as well? Can you see through walls?

00:00:11 ◼   ► Imagine what a curse it would be to get superhuman hearing but only for fan noise. I think I already have that.

00:00:18 ◼   ► I was gonna say that is John.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Superhuman vision but only for dead pixels.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I am having a slight problem with my iMac Pro. Of course you are, of course you are.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Coincidentally, I actually have had a slight problem with my iMac Pro which we'll talk about later.

00:00:39 ◼   ► But Marco, tell me what terrible tragedy is befalling your iMac Pro that's going to necessitate a replacement with a Mac Pro?

00:00:45 ◼   ► I wouldn't say necessitate, but it did kind of make me think, hmm.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Of course it did. Things that make you go, hmm.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I've started hearing the fan a lot more often. It started to spin up a lot more to audible levels.

00:01:02 ◼   ► Like for the first, so I've had the computer for what about two years now? For the first like, you know,

00:01:07 ◼   ► 23 months of ownership, I never heard the fan spin up. Not a single time.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Recently, every time I do like a big build in Xcode, it spins up very noticeably for a while.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Really?

00:01:20 ◼   ► So I'm assuming it's probably just full of dust and I don't really know how to clean it out.

00:01:26 ◼   ► I figure like, you know, obviously besides taking it to an Apple service provider, which I don't want to do,

00:01:30 ◼   ► is maybe if I like take it down from my desk and blow compressed air through its exhaust vent.

00:01:37 ◼   ► My theory is maybe if I blow canned air into the exhaust vent, it'll force all the dust and crap out the intake vents.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Hmm, maybe. You should look at that. You should take a look at the geometry of the inside of that thing before you...

00:01:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I should, yeah.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Ray Darsky in the chat says, "It's full of sand."

00:01:54 ◼   ► Or spiders. Well done.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Well done. Could be spiders. Yeah, so I'm hoping this is easily solved with dust,

00:02:02 ◼   ► but honestly if it's, if this is just how this computer is now,

00:02:05 ◼   ► I'm gonna be very upset because one of the things I love most about this computer is I never hear it.

00:02:10 ◼   ► And now I hear it frequently and that's, that's very, very annoying. But it's a very recent thing,

00:02:16 ◼   ► so I'm assuming it's something I can, I can hopefully fix.

00:02:18 ◼   ► Remember I told you that my Mac Pro is louder just at idle than an iMac at idle because the fans are not like

00:02:26 ◼   ► behind a solid thing, right?

00:02:29 ◼   ► So you wouldn't, and now the fact that that, that audio never changes,

00:02:33 ◼   ► as far as I could tell my fans have literally never spin any faster than idle ever,

00:02:38 ◼   ► doesn't change the fact that there is sort of a higher low level idle hum.

00:02:44 ◼   ► So I'm not sure if a Mac Pro solves this problem for you.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean honestly like if they, if they had updated the iMac Pro,

00:02:50 ◼   ► I might have ordered it to fix this problem.

00:02:53 ◼   ► Unfortunately, they haven't. Because yeah, like if I was gonna, if I really, if for some reason this problem can't be fixed,

00:02:58 ◼   ► if my iMac Pro is just getting flaky because it's two years old, which it sure shouldn't, but you know,

00:03:03 ◼   ► it wouldn't be the first time that happened to an iMac,

00:03:05 ◼   ► then I would honestly, like if looking at the current lineup, I think I would still honestly just buy another iMac Pro.

00:03:12 ◼   ► I would just feel bad buying two of the same generation.

00:03:15 ◼   ► But yeah, I, this is probably something that's easily fixed, but I sure hope so.

00:03:20 ◼   ► The tough thing about it is, you're still on Mojave on that, right?

00:03:25 ◼   ► Whoop in the chat says, this is the computing equivalent to my ashtray is full, new car time.

00:03:31 ◼   ► I think it follows under the category of, oh compressed air, is there anything you can't fix?

00:03:38 ◼   ► Well, I hope, I mean we'll see.

00:03:40 ◼   ► It comes to Apple hardware, compressed air is the cure-all.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Follow it up next year. Do I have to hold my iMac Pro at a 75 degree angle?

00:03:47 ◼   ► That is a whole different tech note for what angle you have to hold the iMac Pro at.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Goodness, I don't even want to think about it. No, the funny thing about this is, for a fleeting moment

00:03:56 ◼   ► I thought, well could this be software, but you're still on Mojave, aren't you?

00:03:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I have not changed my software setup at all.

00:04:01 ◼   ► Well, you never know with Apple these days, which is really unfortunate. In fact,

00:04:05 ◼   ► somebody pointed out to me, or maybe I saw, I think it was a Insta story that MKBHD put up a day or two back,

00:04:12 ◼   ► where he was exhibiting the

00:04:14 ◼   ► janky and laggy mouse movement that I was seeing on my old iMac, and he was seeing this, if I recall correctly, on either the Mac Pro

00:04:21 ◼   ► or a

00:04:23 ◼   ► 16-inch MacBook Pro.

00:04:25 ◼   ► That was a laptop.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Was it a laptop? John, defend your honor there. So anyways, I saw that and was like, oh, yeah

00:04:31 ◼   ► I really need to hold off on the Catalina upgrade.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Yeah, but it was in a Slack because when I saw that video

00:04:35 ◼   ► I was like, oh, I've never had this happen to me because I thought, you know

00:04:39 ◼   ► I have had like cursor jumping around like when I try to use the Bluetooth mouse with a

00:04:43 ◼   ► iMac, but it did not look like that. Like that was like very smooth motion

00:04:48 ◼   ► but delayed by like half a second from the input motion, and I have not experienced that. I've experienced it where you try to move it

00:04:55 ◼   ► and it jumps from one place on the screen to another instead of moving a smooth line, but that is very weird.

00:05:00 ◼   ► Yeah, and that is one of the things I saw when I also saw the machine gun trackpad. So

00:05:06 ◼   ► Very weird. Well, Marco, I'm sorry to hear that your iMac Pro needs to be replaced with a Mac Pro.

00:05:13 ◼   ► I'm glad that this difficult time where you didn't have a justification for it is now over.

00:05:18 ◼   ► Yeah, if there was either a new iMac Pro or an Apple 5k display

00:05:24 ◼   ► it would make this a lot more tempting.

00:05:27 ◼   ► Oh, I feel so bad for you in your time of woe.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Well, I had some interesting iMac problems, which we'll talk about later.

00:05:35 ◼   ► But we should start with some follow-up as per the rules. Marco, tell me about AirPods and in-flight entertainment systems, if you don't mind.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Yeah, so last episode

00:05:42 ◼   ► I basically said how much I love the AirPods Pro and how I really don't plan on bringing any other headphones on planes for

00:05:48 ◼   ► the foreseeable future because they're so good and

00:05:50 ◼   ► so much smaller than full-size noise cancelling headphones that the travel benefit of the small size and the performance of the noise cancelling is

00:05:58 ◼   ► fantastic, and I still stand by that. They're great, but a few people wrote in to say

00:06:02 ◼   ► what if you want to listen to the in-flight entertainment system that basically like one of the reasons why they still carry

00:06:10 ◼   ► headphones that can be wired is that they like to plug in and you know watch movies on the little screens that are in the

00:06:16 ◼   ► in-flight thing and

00:06:17 ◼   ► that's a perfectly valid

00:06:19 ◼   ► opposing idea. I just never thought about it because I never do that.

00:06:25 ◼   ► I always bring my own entertainment like I bring either an iPad or a laptop or both and I

00:06:31 ◼   ► will watch videos on that if I want to watch something. It's it just never really came up for me

00:06:35 ◼   ► but that is a totally valid thing. Now there are little Bluetooth

00:06:38 ◼   ► transmitting dongles that you can get for like 20 or 30 bucks

00:06:41 ◼   ► plug into the headphone jack of the airplane and they will broadcast a Bluetooth signal to a pair of Bluetooth headphones that you have.

00:06:49 ◼   ► I have never used one and I'm not sure

00:06:52 ◼   ► whether the AirPods could pair to it or not because I don't know how the pairing really works there.

00:06:57 ◼   ► So that might be a solution, but I can't really speak for it.

00:07:00 ◼   ► But certainly for non AirPods Bluetooth headphones those things are always fine.

00:07:04 ◼   ► But most of those headphones also can be wired optionally so it's you're better off to doing that.

00:07:09 ◼   ► If it were me

00:07:11 ◼   ► I think I would probably bring my AirPods or AirPods Pro and then bring one of my 84 old

00:07:18 ◼   ► ear pod

00:07:20 ◼   ► you know corded ear pods right my my first several iPhones like that's not the most

00:07:26 ◼   ► enjoyable way to watch anything on a plane, but if I am slumming it to the point that I'm watching the in-flight entertainment

00:07:32 ◼   ► then at that point all bets are off because I'm like you Marco not only do I likely have a computer

00:07:37 ◼   ► but I certainly have an iPad that has certainly used

00:07:40 ◼   ► Plex to sync a whole bunch of media that I thought I would enjoy on the flight.

00:07:43 ◼   ► So yeah, this is not a problem that I find myself having but it is an interesting point nonetheless.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Also, it's funny like we're at the point technologically where you know

00:07:51 ◼   ► not only does whatever you

00:07:53 ◼   ► whatever you want to bring with you on your laptop or iPad or whatever not only do you probably have

00:07:57 ◼   ► better stuff that you enjoy better and you probably have a bigger selection available if you've prepared at all, but also

00:08:02 ◼   ► the screen is likely to be not only

00:08:05 ◼   ► not only larger but also better quality like the screens and airplane seats are so bad there

00:08:12 ◼   ► they must be like TN panels like they have terrible viewing angles and terrible contrast and they just look terrible and they're so

00:08:20 ◼   ► responsive and yes, I know I'm supposed to listen to the in-flight announcements, but

00:08:25 ◼   ► rarely are those correctly volume leveled to the content that plays back on the in-flight entertainment system

00:08:32 ◼   ► so usually what happens is if you turn the volume up enough to hear speech in the movie you're watching

00:08:37 ◼   ► then if there's a pilot announcement it is it like blows your ears out. It's so loud

00:08:41 ◼   ► And so, you know, it's it's very hard to use that and have a good experience

00:08:48 ◼   ► So it's it's much better to bring your own stuff

00:08:51 ◼   ► As long as you prepared and you have any device any modern device that has a screen

00:08:57 ◼   ► I'd rather even watch a movie on my phone than watch on the in-flight entertainment system

00:09:01 ◼   ► Like that's how much the quality difference matters to me

00:09:03 ◼   ► I completely agree with you there

00:09:05 ◼   ► The only thing that the in-flight entertainment screens are for is in my opinion is either to be off if it's a dark flight or

00:09:11 ◼   ► If it's a light flight to show the map. Yep. Yep

00:09:15 ◼   ► You are you and I are of the same mind my friend completely agree

00:09:18 ◼   ► And by the way, I this is this is a small thing two little notes that I have

00:09:21 ◼   ► I'm my recent flight we flew on jet blue first time

00:09:24 ◼   ► I flown in jet blue in a while because they don't usually go where I want to go

00:09:27 ◼   ► Anyway, all of jet blue seems like a series of ads now

00:09:31 ◼   ► It's one it's one of those many I think American Airlines

00:09:35 ◼   ► That now during the flight the in-flight crew comes on and makes long announcements that our credit card offers. Oh, yeah

00:09:43 ◼   ► Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. This seems like it's crossing a line

00:09:46 ◼   ► You know, so not only are the are the people speaking credit card offers to you using the same

00:09:52 ◼   ► Announcement system that they speak important flight information and critical instructions, but then also then they walk down the aisle

00:09:58 ◼   ► Holding up this like brochure and offering it's like and you can tell the flight attendants don't want to do this

00:10:04 ◼   ► Like, you know, you can you can see it in their eyes like they're doing this because they have to they don't want to do

00:10:08 ◼   ► It that's not their job. It shouldn't be their job, but their job is making them do it, right?

00:10:12 ◼   ► And so that's that's ads and then on the in-flight screen

00:10:17 ◼   ► I just want to watch the map screen if it's gonna be on just show me the map screen

00:10:20 ◼   ► But nope, it cycles through it's showing the map screen maybe

00:10:24 ◼   ► 10 seconds at every minute and the rest of the time it's cycling through like billboard ads

00:10:29 ◼   ► No wonder we bring our own screens now like the in-flight screens have gotten so bad

00:10:36 ◼   ► Well the screens to your point a few minutes ago. The screen quality was never good even when they were brand new

00:10:41 ◼   ► Yeah, but yeah, the content is also terrible these days

00:10:44 ◼   ► Friend of the show jelly just sent me, you know, it's basically in-flight push notifications

00:10:49 ◼   ► So well done remember when I think it was Virgin America that they actually had

00:10:56 ◼   ► Like seat to seat messaging and yes, the little keyboard on the back

00:11:02 ◼   ► And yeah, like this because this was like right before

00:11:04 ◼   ► everybody had their own smartphones and everything in their pockets anyway all the time and and right before everybody had Wi-Fi everywhere and everything and

00:11:10 ◼   ► it was just like

00:11:11 ◼   ► It was like the coolest thing in the world for like a year

00:11:13 ◼   ► when Virgin America first came out and you could message someone else in like, you know

00:11:19 ◼   ► Like if you were sitting separately from some other member of your family or party you could like message

00:11:23 ◼   ► Oh send this message to sex this, you know seat 16 C

00:11:26 ◼   ► Weirdest idea it was a weird idea, but it was very interesting, you know, I have to point out

00:11:32 ◼   ► I don't remember what airline it was and honestly doesn't matter but on a couple of the flights I've flown in the last year

00:11:37 ◼   ► There's been some deal I think via t-mobile, but it doesn't really matter some way somehow

00:11:43 ◼   ► You could send iMessages

00:11:46 ◼   ► For free even if you didn't play for it pay for in-flight Wi-Fi, which I thought was extremely cool

00:11:52 ◼   ► That was very very nice and it just reminded me again that half well like Erin's entire side of the family is on

00:11:58 ◼   ► Android which kind of stinks but

00:12:00 ◼   ► But for those of us who are on iMessage that was really really convenient and really nice

00:12:05 ◼   ► And I thought that that was a very nice middle of the road between screw you give us 15 to 25 to 35 dollars for

00:12:11 ◼   ► In-flight Wi-Fi and you know, oh, yeah, everything's free. We you know, I thought it was a very good middle of the road

00:12:17 ◼   ► Also to complete travel tips corner here. This is one thing that like as as

00:12:21 ◼   ► SSL has been has become more and more universal on websites

00:12:25 ◼   ► It has it has actually become somewhat harder to find a site that is never

00:12:31 ◼   ► SSL so that if you're in a captive portal Wi-Fi thing like on many planes I had to actually do this because like

00:12:36 ◼   ► Normally the Apple Wi-Fi thing should detect when you're in a captive portal and it should put a little slide up thing up

00:12:42 ◼   ► They'll let you log in or click the accept button or whatever you have to do

00:12:44 ◼   ► Sometimes that just doesn't work for whatever reason whatever like Apple's test page

00:12:48 ◼   ► It doesn't detect that it's a captive portal or whatever

00:12:50 ◼   ► And so you have to you know, go type in like, you know, google.com or whatever and then you know

00:12:54 ◼   ► It'll it'll capture that and redirect you to their login page. You can log into the Wi-Fi

00:12:58 ◼   ► well, you can't do that anymore with SSL everywhere and most browsers won't even attempt to go to like google.com because it'll use

00:13:05 ◼   ► HSTS or something and so like there's actually a site never SSL comm that is never served over SSL

00:13:13 ◼   ► So if you're on a captive portal and you need a site that will that you know

00:13:18 ◼   ► Will redirect you to the login page go to never SSL calm

00:13:22 ◼   ► Isn't that cool? That's very good or you can go to always

00:13:26 ◼   ► HTTP calm if you prefer prefer the reverse logic. Yeah glass half full half empty. Yeah, that's very good

00:13:32 ◼   ► Alright, Henrik home ers had a very good point

00:13:35 ◼   ► This was with regard to our conversation last episode about how Marco and I don't really feel like there's any point to our big cameras

00:13:41 ◼   ► Anymore, that's a summary you get the idea. Oh god, please don't email us based on that summary. Yeah, please don't email

00:13:46 ◼   ► Very simplified summary

00:13:50 ◼   ► But anyway, the point being Henrik pointed out in in in they're spot-on

00:13:55 ◼   ► The ergonomics of the iPhone as a camera is very poor

00:13:58 ◼   ► I would argue the iPhone is worse ergonomics than any physical camera currently for sale

00:14:03 ◼   ► I don't know if I want to take that bet or not

00:14:05 ◼   ► but certainly the point the broad point is absolutely true that the ergonomics of trying to

00:14:10 ◼   ► Physically operate the iPhone as a camera is not great, but I stand by what Marco and I were saying that for

00:14:17 ◼   ► 80 to 95 percent of my use cases. Anyway, it's the best camera I have these days

00:14:23 ◼   ► Because an area for possible improvement, I mean we know that the battery case has the camera activation button to launch the camera app

00:14:29 ◼   ► Which is a step in the right direction because when you need to quickly take out your phone and use it as a camera

00:14:35 ◼   ► It's a it's a tricky skills tricky thing to become good at it's a small object

00:14:41 ◼   ► That's usually that's pretty uniform and smooth around all the edges

00:14:45 ◼   ► you may have to

00:14:47 ◼   ► Tap something on the screen if you don't want to use like the volume button shutter or whatever

00:14:52 ◼   ► But depending on how you have it oriented you might not know where all that stuff is gonna be

00:14:56 ◼   ► By adding affordances for

00:15:00 ◼   ► quickly being able to

00:15:03 ◼   ► Launch the camera app and use it to take a photo that makes the phone a more valuable more useful camera

00:15:10 ◼   ► And I think you can do some of that without making like the phone making it phone the phone camera shaped

00:15:16 ◼   ► Like the if you just I mean we've talked about a dedicated camera button for years

00:15:21 ◼   ► But you know not just the one that launches the thing but a dedicated shutter button other than using volume and maybe multiple buttons

00:15:28 ◼   ► I don't know. I'm just trying to think of a

00:15:30 ◼   ► Newly shaped phone or a newly shaped phone case maybe

00:15:35 ◼   ► That reflects the reality of our phones, but it's kind of like a you know Mike

00:15:39 ◼   ► Perley and many other people in their pop sockets like

00:15:42 ◼   ► The reason that's so popular is it's better ergonomics for using the phone in a particular way not for pictures in that case

00:15:49 ◼   ► But just you know for very large phones being held in one hand safely and securely right

00:15:54 ◼   ► It's not something you couldn't do before, but people are willing to

00:15:56 ◼   ► buy basically a little outfit their phone and

00:16:00 ◼   ► Dress it up for its new role as you know hey iPhone Pro Max

00:16:05 ◼   ► You were giant, but I can hold you with one hand now because I've got a pop socket

00:16:09 ◼   ► I

00:16:11 ◼   ► can imagine

00:16:12 ◼   ► like

00:16:14 ◼   ► Something like a smart connector or other kind of sort of smooth contacts on the naked robotic core that is the iPhone

00:16:19 ◼   ► That allow you to put on basically a camera case

00:16:21 ◼   ► that has

00:16:24 ◼   ► More grips and shutter buttons in various places so that you could

00:16:28 ◼   ► Take out your phone blindfolded pointed in the direction and take a photo

00:16:33 ◼   ► It's you can do that today, but it takes a little bit more fumbling

00:16:37 ◼   ► I feel like I could take out my big camera and point it in a direction take a photo

00:16:41 ◼   ► Easier with blindfolded than I could with a phone and certainly more securely like in if I was timed and said get it out quick

00:16:48 ◼   ► And point in the right direction and do it all blindfolded my camera is camera shaped

00:16:52 ◼   ► It's very easy to see where all the buttons are I don't need to look at them

00:16:55 ◼   ► It is not symmetrical in any way

00:16:57 ◼   ► It's very clear where the gigantic lens is pointed and where the shutter button is and whether it's on or off and all that other

00:17:02 ◼   ► Stuff not true at all the phone

00:17:04 ◼   ► You'd have to take it out and feel around with it to find where it find where the camera is make sure it's facing the

00:17:08 ◼   ► Right direction make sure you know is the camera in the upper left upper right lower left or lower right corner because sometimes that matters

00:17:14 ◼   ► When you're taking a picture, so I look forward to I haven't been keeping track of the rumors

00:17:19 ◼   ► But I look forward to a future iPhone. Maybe not this new redesign, but maybe the one after that

00:17:23 ◼   ► Has the ability to be more camera shaped?

00:17:27 ◼   ► one can dream

00:17:29 ◼   ► Alright, let's talk about Scott Simpson and jumpy mice John. Can you tell me about this?

00:17:35 ◼   ► Yeah, we're gonna talk more about mice later, but remember when I first got my Mac Pro was saying how I'd hooked up the little

00:17:43 ◼   ► Logitech dongle

00:17:45 ◼   ► RF receiver thingy and when I

00:17:48 ◼   ► Put it in the back of my computer. It was getting terrible signal my cursor was jumping all over so I used instead

00:17:54 ◼   ► I used that little

00:17:55 ◼   ► Apple USB C to USB a adapter, which is like three or four inches long and

00:18:00 ◼   ► Put the little RF dongle in that and it worked and I was doing it

00:18:05 ◼   ► I was putting it on the top ports like instead of being around the back

00:18:08 ◼   ► I was putting it on the top in retrospect. I should have realized that like

00:18:11 ◼   ► The one and a half foot distance between the back of the computer and top of the computer surely is not accounting

00:18:16 ◼   ► You know that doesn't explain the incredible difference in signal quality that I was getting so here's the actual explanation. I find this

00:18:24 ◼   ► depressing and somewhat infuriating

00:18:27 ◼   ► Intel paper Intel the company largely responsible for USB

00:18:33 ◼   ► It's on their website enough that people did it anyway

00:18:37 ◼   ► It's a study showing that the noise generated by USB 3.0 data

00:18:42 ◼   ► Can have an impact on radio receivers whose antennas are placed close to a USB 3.0 device and or USB 3.0 connector

00:18:49 ◼   ► We will put the link in the show. It's it's a PDF. We apologize for the PDF

00:18:52 ◼   ► but it is

00:18:55 ◼   ► Straightforward like to do a bunch of tests to say here if you put something near a USB 3 port that has data going through it

00:19:03 ◼   ► The act of the data going through that port will cause interference with things on a similar spectrum so

00:19:08 ◼   ► That explains why my little logitech turd thingy

00:19:11 ◼   ► wasn't working on the back of my computer because guess what is right next to a USB 3 port that was connected to like my

00:19:18 ◼   ► external SSD you know and

00:19:20 ◼   ► Similarly I have other USB 3 devices and an external hub or whatever

00:19:24 ◼   ► That's bad like if you're coming up with a standard make sure that

00:19:31 ◼   ► That it doesn't cause radio interference for the things that it's not just the devices the ports the ports themselves if they're not well shielded or

00:19:38 ◼   ► Not ridiculously well she did even the devices they experiment where they were like wrapping the external SSD and tin foil

00:19:45 ◼   ► Or some kind of foil to try to keep the noise the USB 3.0 generated noise from coming out of that

00:19:50 ◼   ► This is I feel like this is the type of thing you should figure out before you release the standard to the world

00:19:55 ◼   ► If you have and it's 3.0. Only it's not apparently not 2.0 so

00:20:00 ◼   ► Hurry, I'm with a bunch of USB 3.0 devices coming out of the back of my computer

00:20:04 ◼   ► And that's that's why it was different when it was on the top because the signal the interference

00:20:09 ◼   ► Decreases rapidly as you move away from the the port or the device so being on top of the computer

00:20:15 ◼   ► It wasn't like it was closer to the mouse. It was farther from the USB 3.0 point that had a lot of data going through it

00:20:21 ◼   ► so

00:20:23 ◼   ► If you're wondering why you get bad signal for your little RF receiver for your logitech mouse or you're getting other weird

00:20:30 ◼   ► Behavior and you have a bunch of USB 3.0 peripherals and or cables read this paper and see if any of the solutions they recommend

00:20:37 ◼   ► Help you. I just like knowing what's going on, but boy. This is I hope USB 4 doesn't have similar problems

00:20:44 ◼   ► I'm sure it'll have even better and newer problems for us to contend a lot of problems without a space USB 4 no space

00:20:52 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about photo sharing a little bit more follow-up there a Mario Panagetti says you can send iCloud photo links to people

00:21:00 ◼   ► With non Apple devices instead of adding the photos to the library

00:21:03 ◼   ► They'll just get a zip download of all the photos and my testing Android phones don't always know what to do with this surprise surprise

00:21:07 ◼   ► Andrew Elliott writes also it creates a public web page viewable viewable by any browser which expires within 30 days and finally Jared counts writes

00:21:16 ◼   ► I recently sent some photos to my wife via iCloud slash iMessage if she opened the link on her phone

00:21:21 ◼   ► She could import directly into photos

00:21:22 ◼   ► But opening the link on her Mac showed a page with a download button for a zip file as Mario had mentioned

00:21:27 ◼   ► So all a little bit more feedback on photo sharing which was an ask ATP a couple of weeks ago

00:21:31 ◼   ► John this is something about destiny don't care. Let's talk about rack mount Mac pros. It's not about destiny

00:21:38 ◼   ► It's about the ps4 controller still don't care you do care someday

00:21:43 ◼   ► Why I care someday one of your children is gonna complain that they want to use their ps4 controller to play Minecraft on one of your max

00:21:49 ◼   ► You'd be like

00:21:51 ◼   ► You'd be glad you heard about this

00:21:53 ◼   ► Saying that like I had my

00:21:57 ◼   ► ps4 controller which was working fine in Windows 10

00:22:00 ◼   ► With steam and everything it was paired it was working it could navigate the interface

00:22:05 ◼   ► But as soon as I launched the game the game couldn't see it because the game itself had its own notions about

00:22:10 ◼   ► Connecting to the ps4 controller and I had to plug it in well apparently there is a wireless adapter that very kind of like the

00:22:18 ◼   ► RF adapter for a lot of tech mice that

00:22:21 ◼   ► Makes your computer think that it has a wired ps4 controller plugged into it and really it's got a little

00:22:28 ◼   ► Transmitter or receiver pair that make that happen and apparently if you buy the one from Japan it's cheaper

00:22:34 ◼   ► So we'll put a link in the show notes if you'd like to use your ps4 controller wirelessly

00:22:38 ◼   ► With your quote-unquote PC or Mac and boot camp

00:22:41 ◼   ► In a game that insists that it must be

00:22:44 ◼   ► Wired connection this will fake it out. You know I will say as much as I'm giving you junk about this I

00:22:51 ◼   ► Was trying to use I don't remember the name of the emulator, but I was trying to use a Mac based emulator to

00:22:57 ◼   ► emulate

00:22:58 ◼   ► software that I had acquired a

00:23:01 ◼   ► while ago and that strongly resembled software I used and played as a kid and

00:23:07 ◼   ► Anyways, I tried to hook up my Nintendo switch controller via Bluetooth to my old

00:23:12 ◼   ► I Mac was the last time I tried this and it was a pain in the hindquarters trying to get that to work and

00:23:18 ◼   ► Even when it did like it was still a little bit wonky so I

00:23:22 ◼   ► Thought about buying like one of the the blessed controllers that Apple supports

00:23:29 ◼   ► I think there's at least a couple, but maybe this would be another solution to my problem a

00:23:32 ◼   ► Ps4 controllers will just pair directly to your Mac. I think with no anything like I know you're talking about like the

00:23:39 ◼   ► Made for iPhone rather that whatever they are the ones that work with iOS devices right but for the Mac

00:23:46 ◼   ► I think both ps4 and Xbox controls will just pair just you go and you put them into pairing mode go into Bluetooth you connect

00:23:51 ◼   ► And that's it. I think you're right

00:23:53 ◼   ► I think the problem was I was doing with the switch pro controller, and that's where I fell in my face

00:23:55 ◼   ► That's not one of I think that's not one of the ones that's on the list of things that just get supported out of the box

00:24:00 ◼   ► on Macs

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00:25:42 ◼   ► [Music]

00:25:44 ◼   ► Tell me about Rackmount Mac pros if you don't mind

00:25:47 ◼   ► They're available the slow roll out of the Mac Pro continues not it's not complete

00:25:53 ◼   ► But this is the next step the rackmount Mac Pro that has been on the on the page for a long time

00:25:58 ◼   ► But you could never actually click the configure button now you can click configure and

00:26:02 ◼   ► Really the options look basically the same except that it starts at $6,500 and start instead of starting at

00:26:10 ◼   ► $6,000 you can look at a gallery which has a grand total of three pictures

00:26:14 ◼   ► It shows the front which is a bunch of holes and two smaller handles for pulling out the rack

00:26:18 ◼   ► It shows the side which looks to me

00:26:20 ◼   ► Or you know the cutaway which looks like it's the basically the same motherboard with the same components in the same places

00:26:24 ◼   ► With a couple of extra things thrown on the front. I'm not quite sure what they are

00:26:29 ◼   ► I hope I fix it gets one of these and tears it down, but I can't maybe it's just dead space in front of it

00:26:33 ◼   ► I don't know and then finally it shows the back which is a little bit weird

00:26:37 ◼   ► I mean first you can see how much wider it is than the regular one, but second

00:26:41 ◼   ► the back does not have the

00:26:44 ◼   ► Same scalloped cheese grater hole pattern instead it just looks like it has a much more sort of

00:26:50 ◼   ► you know

00:26:53 ◼   ► Previous generation cheese grater pattern is just a flat piece of metal with a bunch of holes punched in it a bunch of very tiny

00:26:59 ◼   ► Holes punched in it so if you want to pay $500 for a bigger Mac Pro that can fit in a rack now you finally can

00:27:07 ◼   ► I have a very important question

00:27:09 ◼   ► Does this count as the 2020 Mac Pro?

00:27:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean maybe I wonder I guess if you buy it it probably does they probably do consider it the 2019 Mac Pro

00:27:20 ◼   ► Right like what is the name of this product even let me see what it says on the page

00:27:23 ◼   ► It just says Mac Pro like surely there is some

00:27:27 ◼   ► Way to differentiate it in Apple's official literature is able kind of Mac

00:27:32 ◼   ► Do you have you don't just say you have a Mac Pro because if you come with this thing?

00:27:35 ◼   ► And it's probably just like it like you know they don't give the wheel

00:27:38 ◼   ► Configuration its own product name like this. It's probably considered still the Mac Pro. Just it happens to be in a radically different case

00:27:46 ◼   ► Tell me about Pro display XDR true tone if you don't mind one thing

00:27:50 ◼   ► I forgot to talk about when talking about my products by XDR is that it comes with true tone

00:27:54 ◼   ► I'm so out of the loop on other options does the iMac Pro or any of the iMacs have a true tone option

00:28:00 ◼   ► No, I have night shift that doesn't count yeah

00:28:03 ◼   ► So I think for true tone what you obviously you need the sensors yeah, and maybe there's just those don't exist

00:28:08 ◼   ► I mean, I guess you could use the camera. I don't even know anyway

00:28:11 ◼   ► The XDR has true tone and so playing with the monitor when I first got it is one of the things I considered

00:28:17 ◼   ► And you know what's what's your both of your positions on true tone on all your devices that supported mostly iOS devices

00:28:24 ◼   ► I use it. I use it wherever it's supported

00:28:28 ◼   ► I find it quite subtle, and it's not I've never really noticed it. I used to use

00:28:35 ◼   ► The other one night shift. I used to use night shift a little bit more

00:28:38 ◼   ► I think it's now disabled on my stuff, but yeah night shift used to be a much bigger effect

00:28:44 ◼   ► But yeah true tone. I don't really notice it so I just leave it on

00:28:48 ◼   ► Yeah, so I on my iOS devices. I use true tone all the time

00:28:55 ◼   ► It's kind of one of those things like when it first came out. I was like do I really want something trying to mess with

00:29:00 ◼   ► The colors based on what it thinks about the environmental colors. It's not gonna look weird sometimes

00:29:04 ◼   ► Would I rather just have the screen just do accurate colors all the time regardless of my ambient light, but I?

00:29:12 ◼   ► Don't know. I just I guess I just went with it figuring that if I don't if I enable it

00:29:17 ◼   ► And I don't notice any difference that that means that like the light hitting my eyes in contrast to the surrounding light

00:29:24 ◼   ► You know should I'm not optimizing for the accuracy of what is emitted. I'm optimizing for the accuracy of

00:29:31 ◼   ► What gets to my eyeballs which includes some reflected light, and I don't know so anyway

00:29:36 ◼   ► I leave it on and I'm fine with it, but on this thing

00:29:38 ◼   ► I'm like well

00:29:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna be editing photos on here do I want this thing messing with the photos, so I've tried it on and off

00:29:44 ◼   ► And it's the type of thing where if you turn it on you very quickly stop and noticing that it's on

00:29:52 ◼   ► But as soon as you turn it off you're like wow that's a big color difference and usually it's usually shifting it more

00:29:58 ◼   ► Blue right so you turn it off, and it looks bluer than normal

00:30:01 ◼   ► No like a I think I'm gonna end up leaving it on

00:30:06 ◼   ► But it's definitely like a different vibe like if I

00:30:10 ◼   ► Thing is it has a nice fade effect - it doesn't just switch immediately like I just turned it off and I was like

00:30:17 ◼   ► Everything is blue. Yeah

00:30:21 ◼   ► And when I turn it on

00:30:23 ◼   ► Like for a second things start to look a little yellow, but then everything acclimates, and I don't know it's it's

00:30:30 ◼   ► It's a little bit of a conflict in my life here

00:30:33 ◼   ► I think I'm probably just gonna leave it on edit all my photos with on I

00:30:36 ◼   ► Think if like I'm a sunny day with all the windows open or the blinds open that it'll basically be the same

00:30:42 ◼   ► But at night with this weird artificial lighting on the second thing is is there's two different presets that come with this

00:30:47 ◼   ► Like in the color profiles below

00:30:50 ◼   ► one says Pro display XDR and then in parentheses p3 -

00:30:54 ◼   ► 1600 nits and the second one says Apple display p3 500 nits

00:31:00 ◼   ► Hmm, and I've tried each one of those things and other than I assume the top preset

00:31:06 ◼   ► Being able to go to the maximum 1600 nits when you play the HDR content on the bottom one not I can't tell

00:31:13 ◼   ► What the heck they're doing so I'm just leaving it on the default it came out of the box set to p3

00:31:20 ◼   ► 1600 nits and I'm just leaving on that I

00:31:23 ◼   ► Have no thoughts about this whatsoever

00:31:25 ◼   ► This is the thing about HDR. I mean I haven't this is my first HDR experience

00:31:30 ◼   ► I know technically like the iPhones have HDR yada yada, but like

00:31:33 ◼   ► This is my first display that has HDR that you can really notice especially in Windows which handles this terribly

00:31:40 ◼   ► when I try to play destiny in HDR and then like

00:31:43 ◼   ► Get the game to switch back to the quote-unquote desktop in Windows

00:31:49 ◼   ► When it goes into HDR mode like the entire like a non HDR content like just your icons and windows or whatever

00:31:55 ◼   ► Looks like washed out and gross like it changes the colors of that to support HDR

00:32:00 ◼   ► And so you can sort of catch a glimpse of what the rest of the world would look like in HDR mode

00:32:05 ◼   ► but when you leave the game it switches out of HDR mode in Windows and goes back to like regular display so that

00:32:11 ◼   ► You know white stuff looks white again instead of everything looking I had a gray haze over it

00:32:15 ◼   ► The Mac handles it much more gracefully so when I play HDR video

00:32:19 ◼   ► I can tell that the brightest whites in that HDR video are so much brighter than any other white that's been on the screen

00:32:25 ◼   ► before that

00:32:28 ◼   ► You can narrow the gap by cranking the brightness up to max, but you do not want to do that

00:32:32 ◼   ► I mean, I think we all know on these modern displays

00:32:34 ◼   ► Do not on modern desktop displays putting the brightness at max will burn your eyeballs out. Don't do that, right? Yeah

00:32:42 ◼   ► But the HDR like I don't think there's a way to get it to display like an all-white text edit window at

00:32:49 ◼   ► 1600 nits unless you put that in a movie

00:32:51 ◼   ► Right because I think the display will never

00:32:54 ◼   ► That you know

00:32:56 ◼   ► It's not high down the Mac desktop experience is not high dynamic range as far as I'm able to tell only

00:33:01 ◼   ► Video is that and that means only video is going to reach those peaks of 1600 hits these that's my understanding of somebody

00:33:08 ◼   ► who actually knows stuff about

00:33:10 ◼   ► Reference monitors and HDR displays and and Mac OS specifically has any guidance or something

00:33:17 ◼   ► I can read or answers, please write into the show and let us know

00:33:20 ◼   ► All right, so things seem to be mostly good with your new Mac Pro

00:33:27 ◼   ► But I see the following in the show notes

00:33:30 ◼   ► Quote Mac Pro Ethernet wonkiness quote and coincidentally

00:33:35 ◼   ► I have iMac Pro Ethernet wonkiness that I'd like to discuss after you're done

00:33:39 ◼   ► But tell me is there trouble in paradise John? It's my Ethernet wonkiness is it's a quick one

00:33:44 ◼   ► But it's a thing that people the other five people assume this show who have Mac pros

00:33:49 ◼   ► May run across

00:33:52 ◼   ► So my Mac Pro like most of my desktop Macs. I just turn off Wi-Fi because I want wired connections for everything

00:33:58 ◼   ► I don't want them bothering sending their signal transmit and receive signal out into the air just get off Wi-Fi

00:34:04 ◼   ► Don't need it don't want it. You don't use airdrop then or Apple watch unlock? No

00:34:10 ◼   ► You know, I'm not using Apple watch unlock. I don't wear a watch right and airdrop. No, no, no use airdrop

00:34:15 ◼   ► I don't hand off. I don't want the little icon sliding up next to my doc. I don't want any of that

00:34:19 ◼   ► I'm assuming that your previous Mac Pro was not airdrop compatible. My previous Mac Pro did not have Wi-Fi, right? I

00:34:25 ◼   ► Would suggest turning it on for airdrop because if you if you do the little network

00:34:31 ◼   ► Preferences priority list and just put the Ethernet first all your networking stuff will still go over Ethernet

00:34:38 ◼   ► But leave the Wi-Fi on for airdrop. Yep. What do you think? I'm airdropping anything photos anything? Yeah, like something like yeah

00:34:46 ◼   ► Sometimes I'll send a photo from my phone to my Mac if I want it like

00:34:48 ◼   ► Immediately there like without any waiting for sync sometimes TIF or I will airdrop things to each other's computers

00:34:54 ◼   ► You know it occasionally like, you know

00:34:57 ◼   ► If the network isn't working right or if we if it's just faster if it's from iOS to the computer

00:35:01 ◼   ► Yeah, there's lots of times where I use it

00:35:03 ◼   ► No, I don't think I have occasion to transfer anything from iOS devices to my Mac that's not like already there through some sync process

00:35:11 ◼   ► But I'll keep it in mind if ever comes up. I certainly have the capability now unlike my previous computer

00:35:15 ◼   ► But anyway, I connect the Ethernet the Mac Pro has two 10 gigabit Ethernet ports. I

00:35:22 ◼   ► Personally in my house have an 8 port switch. That's the same 8 port switch that I've been using with my 2008 Mac Pro

00:35:29 ◼   ► It's not as old as my 2008 Mac Pro because I think it replaced at some point in its lifetime

00:35:33 ◼   ► But it's not a new switch

00:35:35 ◼   ► It's old enough that I can't get a replacement that looks like it because I needed a bunch of switches

00:35:40 ◼   ► I think when I got the Synology that wasn't that long ago, right but wasn't that long ago. That was almost seven years. Well my

00:35:47 ◼   ► My Mac Pro was three years old then when I got that I said, oh I want to get some switches

00:35:54 ◼   ► I'll probably I'll get the same one that I have that I've been using with my Mac here and I couldn't find it because they

00:35:58 ◼   ► Changed the models around or whatever. So anyway, it's a pretty old switch is what I'm getting it

00:36:02 ◼   ► You know, but it's a gigabit Ethernet switch and like how you know, it's a dumb switch

00:36:07 ◼   ► It's what what could have changed since then. Well something about

00:36:12 ◼   ► This switch and the existence of 10 gig Ethernet do not get along with each other

00:36:17 ◼   ► I mean it makes sense because when I bought the switch 10 gig Ethernet did not exist as a standard over

00:36:23 ◼   ► Copper as far as I'm aware, so it kind of makes sense that this which wouldn't expect that anyway

00:36:30 ◼   ► When I connected everything up on my Mac and I one of the things I did was a speed test to make sure that I had

00:36:35 ◼   ► Everything working the way I wanted in my internet speeds were terrible

00:36:38 ◼   ► At you know

00:36:40 ◼   ► so incredibly slow and so incredibly close to a hundred megabits that it immediately became clear to me that

00:36:45 ◼   ► My interface was probably set to 100 megabits and sure enough

00:36:49 ◼   ► I went into the Ethernet hardware settings and it was like hardware speed and it had selected 100 megabits

00:36:54 ◼   ► Which is the wrong choice?

00:36:56 ◼   ► And so basically what it comes down to is in the negotiation between my

00:37:01 ◼   ► Ethernet switch and my Mac they could not see eye to eye and I think my Ethernet switch said fine

00:37:08 ◼   ► I'm just defaulting to my slow speed. So I went to 100 megabits

00:37:11 ◼   ► So I just manually set it to gigabit and problem solved

00:37:14 ◼   ► but if you also have a semi old Ethernet switch connected to your 10 gig Ethernet be aware that they may not be

00:37:21 ◼   ► Friendly with each other and you may have to do what I did which is just manually set it to gigabit and then lo and behold

00:37:26 ◼   ► hundreds of megabits a second up and down to the internet problem solved

00:37:30 ◼   ► So let me tell you my tale of woe because I've had a stressful 24 hours and let me

00:37:36 ◼   ► Let me give you the extremely short version that Marco can drop in if he ends up cutting all this

00:37:42 ◼   ► I thought I thought that my iMac pros Ethernet port was broken

00:37:47 ◼   ► Then I thought the Eero was broken and it turns out that possibly seemingly because of my mocha bridge

00:37:54 ◼   ► Everything was falling down on its face

00:37:57 ◼   ► But as soon as I disconnected the multi the mocha bridge from my switch everything came back up and everything was fine

00:38:04 ◼   ► So the longer version of the story and this is where

00:38:07 ◼   ► Marco will do the fast forward sound effect, but the longer version of the story is that I noticed that my

00:38:15 ◼   ► iMac Pro wasn't connected via Ethernet and I thought that was very odd and

00:38:18 ◼   ► I

00:38:20 ◼   ► Started trying to troubleshoot and I thought that okay

00:38:23 ◼   ► This is weird because the iMac just is refusing to pull an IP

00:38:26 ◼   ► It's seeing that thing that everything is connected physically

00:38:29 ◼   ► But it won't pull an IP and I restart my Eero I restart the switch which like you John is a gigabit switch

00:38:35 ◼   ► I've had for probably five years or something like that

00:38:37 ◼   ► Nothing seems to be making a difference

00:38:41 ◼   ► Well, then I eventually think all right. Well screw it. Thankfully my Eero base station that the parent if you will

00:38:47 ◼   ► Eero base station is right there. And so I plug my iMac directly into the Eero and

00:38:53 ◼   ► That works no problem. It immediately pulls an IP address. Everybody's happy

00:38:58 ◼   ► So I decide that the switch is broken. So because it's old, you know, even though there's no real intelligence there

00:39:04 ◼   ► You never know

00:39:05 ◼   ► So I decide to Amazon Prime now myself a new switch

00:39:09 ◼   ► Which by the way the fact that you can do that and within a couple hours it shows up still blows my mind even though

00:39:14 ◼   ► This is like a five-year-old thing, but be that as it may

00:39:16 ◼   ► So I eventually get this new switch in I plug everything up and I'm ready to go I'm excited that must have been the oh

00:39:24 ◼   ► No, it's not the problem. Oh

00:39:26 ◼   ► Okay, and I don't recall the exact timeline at some point in this struggle I decide to do a

00:39:33 ◼   ► Diagnostics on the iMac and the iMac says no no, no, everything's great

00:39:36 ◼   ► But I don't really trust that because my last iMac said no no, no, everything's great when it wasn't

00:39:40 ◼   ► so I'm starting to get really upset at this point and then I

00:39:45 ◼   ► Guess it was around now that I realized

00:39:48 ◼   ► Okay

00:39:48 ◼   ► The switch is can't be the problem because it's brand new and that's when I plugged into the Eero and I feel like okay

00:39:54 ◼   ► It's something about the combination of the switch and the Eero

00:39:59 ◼   ► So I start blowing up your own support via email saying without actually saying I would like a new one yesterday

00:40:04 ◼   ► please because obviously this thing is jacked up and

00:40:07 ◼   ► They didn't put me through the entirety. I don't think of their desert

00:40:12 ◼   ► You know, is it turned on kind of tech support rigmarole?

00:40:16 ◼   ► But what they eventually said was which I didn't think of myself and I'm a little disappointed that I didn't think of it

00:40:21 ◼   ► but they eventually said

00:40:24 ◼   ► Unplug everything from the switch except your iMac and try that and sure enough

00:40:30 ◼   ► That's when everything worked and if this by some miracle actually makes it in the show

00:40:34 ◼   ► I would love to know from someone who knows more about this than me

00:40:37 ◼   ► Why would the mocha bridge cause everything to fall down?

00:40:41 ◼   ► So if you're not familiar with what that is, there's it's an acronym something over coaxial

00:40:45 ◼   ► I think media over coaxial or something like that. I don't know. But anyways, I

00:40:49 ◼   ► Still have TV service through Verizon files and the way that our set-top box

00:40:55 ◼   ► Gets the TV guide for whatever you want to call it is

00:41:00 ◼   ► Through the internet, but the only way the set-top box is connected to the internet is via coax the same

00:41:06 ◼   ► you know cable that the video comes through and

00:41:08 ◼   ► in the past this was fine because my

00:41:11 ◼   ► Verizon issued router also got its internet via coax or in once I got gigabit it had a coax port on it

00:41:19 ◼   ► So even though the internet was coming in via Ethernet in the newer router

00:41:22 ◼   ► It still would connect to coax so it could give the set-top box or boxes

00:41:28 ◼   ► Access to the internet. Well, what I did was in because I didn't want to use the files router anymore

00:41:33 ◼   ► I really like hero which is a past sponsor and probably future sponsor, but I really like them. I

00:41:38 ◼   ► Decided I want to use my hero

00:41:40 ◼   ► And so I got this thing called a mocha bridge which is basically you plug coax into it you plug Ethernet into it and it

00:41:44 ◼   ► Guess what bridges the two networks and I don't know

00:41:48 ◼   ► What it is about this mocha bridge that caused everything to fall into space, but since I have unplugged it

00:41:54 ◼   ► Everything's been working great except of course set-top box

00:41:57 ◼   ► But if you know more about this stuff than I do

00:42:01 ◼   ► I would love to know how that could be a thing other than maybe the bridge just needed to be like

00:42:05 ◼   ► Restarted or something, but I don't understand how that mocha bridge could have taken down my whole darn network

00:42:11 ◼   ► So I if you know and if this actually made it in the show, I would love to know so please do let me know

00:42:17 ◼   ► I've never trusted those mocha bridge things. I don't like the idea of

00:42:20 ◼   ► Ethernet over coax along with the video signal just always seem janky

00:42:25 ◼   ► That's why I've always wanted just like a box that's on the wall of my house

00:42:28 ◼   ► Then what should come out of is an Ethernet cable and nothing else soon

00:42:32 ◼   ► Yeah, which is what I have now and I do wait when everything works. I actually do like the mocha bridge

00:42:37 ◼   ► I have a fairly old one and I don't recall what generation it is

00:42:41 ◼   ► but my understanding having briefly looked into it is that you can actually get a gigabit or

00:42:46 ◼   ► near gigabit speeds over more modern mocha bridges and that's really important for someone like me who is too lazy to run cat6 throughout the

00:42:54 ◼   ► House but really would like to have an Ethernet drop across the house now in my actual circumstance

00:43:00 ◼   ► I haven't I only use the mocha bridge for the purpose of the set-top box

00:43:03 ◼   ► but if I wanted to go like my office is in the the upper right corner of the house if you will and

00:43:12 ◼   ► the family room is like below it and in halfway back and

00:43:17 ◼   ► The all the kitchen is below it on the opposite side of the house

00:43:20 ◼   ► So if I wanted for some reason an Ethernet drop and say the kitchen I could use mocha bridges to get that Ethernet drop

00:43:26 ◼   ► I would I already have one that usually is plugged in up here in the office and I can put a second one down in

00:43:31 ◼   ► The kitchen and then I have an Ethernet drop right there

00:43:33 ◼   ► and so in that sense, it's super convenient because I'm just ride on the stuff that's already in the walls, but

00:43:38 ◼   ► But yeah, something has gone very very wrong with this and I don't understand what and it's kind of driving me crazy. I

00:43:44 ◼   ► Don't know. So thank you for indulging me and we'll see if this actually makes it in the show

00:43:50 ◼   ► John tell me about your sleep-wake battles. If you don't mind, please

00:43:53 ◼   ► Another thing about I don't know all new computers most new computers in my life. That's one thing

00:43:58 ◼   ► I appreciated about my 2008 Mac Pro and the thing I think that I hate about most laptops

00:44:04 ◼   ► sleeping and waking my Mac Pro my previous Mac Pro

00:44:09 ◼   ► You know have energy saver settings where you could say do you want to wake for network access and you do scheduled wakes and sleeps?

00:44:17 ◼   ► I think those were basically the only options and you could also say when the screen goes to sleep and how long

00:44:22 ◼   ► At idle before the computer goes to sleep

00:44:24 ◼   ► And all those settings worked all the time

00:44:28 ◼   ► I know that doesn't sound like much but anyone has a laptop or

00:44:31 ◼   ► Another Mac that they have these issues with those that's not you know

00:44:34 ◼   ► you don't take that for granted like the the settings I had on my old Mac Pro were

00:44:38 ◼   ► Never sleep by yourself except during the schedule. The schedule was wake up at like 3 a.m

00:44:46 ◼   ► And then I had back play scheduled to run then and then go to sleep like an hour and a half or two hours later

00:44:52 ◼   ► Right. So if you just left my Mac awake all the time, it would eventually cross 3 a.m

00:44:58 ◼   ► And do its thing and then it would hit its scheduled sleep and it would go to sleep, right?

00:45:02 ◼   ► But otherwise it would never automatically go to sleep

00:45:04 ◼   ► So that's so I could have like a long running downloads or other sorts of things and in theory all those sort of long-running

00:45:09 ◼   ► Operations should already keep the computer awake, but sometimes they didn't especially in the old days

00:45:14 ◼   ► So it was just nice to be able to have a computer that I knew

00:45:16 ◼   ► Would act in a predictable way and when I put it to sleep, which I did, you know frequently

00:45:23 ◼   ► I never shut it down

00:45:23 ◼   ► But I would I wouldn't just leave it running all day because it's a big thing that uses a lot of power

00:45:27 ◼   ► I'd put it to sleep when I'm not using it

00:45:29 ◼   ► and it would just immediately go to sleep and

00:45:32 ◼   ► It wouldn't wake up until you that 3 a.m. Wake up time came or until I came back and woke it up

00:45:37 ◼   ► Again, not necessarily true of laptops. So this new computer has more settings than the old one did it has

00:45:45 ◼   ► All sorts of other things that will wake it up. Some of them are sort of

00:45:49 ◼   ► Revealed in the in the UI like it's got power nap

00:45:53 ◼   ► Which I think my other thing didn't have that lets it like

00:45:55 ◼   ► Wake up silently and check for email and do time machine backups or whatever. I don't know how silently it does those wake ups

00:46:01 ◼   ► And you know, it's got startup after power failure

00:46:05 ◼   ► I think my old one had that and then it's got wake for network access and

00:46:08 ◼   ► You know the hard disk sleep option and all that other all the good stuff

00:46:13 ◼   ► But with this computer I was having a bunch of issues

00:46:16 ◼   ► Where I'd put the computer to sleep

00:46:19 ◼   ► when I walked away from it just you know, my old habits for my old Mac and I'd come back in the room a little bit

00:46:25 ◼   ► later and I'd

00:46:27 ◼   ► Eventually realize that the computer is awake. The screen is still black, but the computer is awake and

00:46:33 ◼   ► This this led me to a couple realizations one

00:46:36 ◼   ► Despite what I said before about the fan noise

00:46:40 ◼   ► Every time I would come in here, I'd be like it's my computer awake. I put it sleep

00:46:44 ◼   ► Is it awake and I I couldn't tell

00:46:47 ◼   ► Unless I walked up to it and put my ear like right in front of the grading on the front of the computer

00:46:53 ◼   ► It's like somebody who sleeps at their eyes open like are they asleep?

00:46:57 ◼   ► Yeah, like are they alive they breathing put your finger under their nose to see if they're breathing

00:47:01 ◼   ► Yeah, and this is like what I was saying before

00:47:03 ◼   ► It's like well when the computer's on at a title and I'm sitting in the chair here, you know

00:47:07 ◼   ► Three feet away from it like I can still hear it. But when I'm doing the sleep/wake testing

00:47:12 ◼   ► Sometimes I'd be sitting in the chair

00:47:13 ◼   ► Like I'd be on like my work laptop in the same exact chair, but I'd put the big, you know

00:47:16 ◼   ► The Mac Pro to sleep, but did I just be on a laptop and I'd like did the Mac Pro just wake up

00:47:22 ◼   ► And I I wouldn't be able to tell for sure

00:47:25 ◼   ► Unless I got up out of my chair

00:47:28 ◼   ► Went over to the computer and put my ear to it the same chair that I'm sitting in right now

00:47:33 ◼   ► So despite me saying that at idle you can hear the fans

00:47:37 ◼   ► Apparently you can't hear them well enough for me to determine with certainty

00:47:42 ◼   ► Whether the thing just woke up or not, right?

00:47:44 ◼   ► So they're really quiet now like I think if you if you made me bet like alright

00:47:49 ◼   ► I'm not letting you get up from the chair place your bed. Do you think it's awake or asleep?

00:47:52 ◼   ► I think I could mostly tell I think I'd have maybe 90% success rate, but it's borderline

00:47:57 ◼   ► So that's one point. The second point is why the hell's my computer working out, right?

00:48:01 ◼   ► Anyone who has dealt with this before with a laptop or otherwise?

00:48:05 ◼   ► Hopefully knows all the many things that can wake your computer up

00:48:08 ◼   ► I'll link to a good article by Howard Oakley in the eclectic light company, which is a great website for Mac nerdery

00:48:16 ◼   ► but this is one of those topics where if you google for

00:48:20 ◼   ► Why is my Mac waking up and especially if you know something about how to debug it and you start googling for the words that?

00:48:26 ◼   ► Involve debugging it you will find so many results across like decades, right? This is a common problem

00:48:33 ◼   ► The solutions vary the tools for looking into the solutions vary a little bit a little bit more lately

00:48:39 ◼   ► The PM set command-line tool is your friend. I think you know PM set minus G log

00:48:47 ◼   ► Giving you a log of the sleeping and waking and PM set minus G assertions to see

00:48:52 ◼   ► You know if you if your problem is that your Mac won't go to sleep

00:48:56 ◼   ► Even though you tell it to go to sleep after five minutes of an activity

00:48:58 ◼   ► You can see who's keeping it awake

00:48:59 ◼   ► And why every time you can feel wakes up those logs will say a wake reason

00:49:04 ◼   ► Why did I wake up and the wake reasons would will say very obscure text that you will then type into Google and find a million

00:49:09 ◼   ► People whose computer are waking up with the exact same thing if you have a more recent Mac or more recent OS

00:49:14 ◼   ► You'll see that the wake reasons have information redacted for privacy reasons

00:49:19 ◼   ► Which is a new innovation to try to keep like private information out of the logs

00:49:23 ◼   ► But it is not particularly helpful when you're trying to figure out why your computer is waking up

00:49:27 ◼   ► Why might your computer be waking up well there's wake on network access, but you can just uncheck that checkbox

00:49:32 ◼   ► You've got that solved and by the way

00:49:34 ◼   ► I never had that check just because

00:49:36 ◼   ► If you have any especially for any computer that there is any route

00:49:40 ◼   ► To that computer from the internet like say you're running like a Plex server on something and you

00:49:44 ◼   ► Want it to be accessible from the internet there is a way

00:49:47 ◼   ► From the internet to get to that computer if that is the case

00:49:51 ◼   ► And you have wake on network access

00:49:54 ◼   ► Available you put it asleep it'll wake from network access in three seconds because things are port scanning the internet like 24/7 right

00:50:00 ◼   ► It is a hostile environment if you wake on network access

00:50:03 ◼   ► somehow some way that wake up packet will go flying through and I don't understand how it can do that because I used to I wrote

00:50:08 ◼   ► a little program to

00:50:10 ◼   ► Send the wake-up packet, and I think it has to be sort of like handcrafted

00:50:14 ◼   ► And I didn't think you could get to it from the internet

00:50:16 ◼   ► But anyway my maybe it's my hostile environment in my house my experience has shown if you do wake for network access

00:50:22 ◼   ► You will never your computer will never sleep for long. It'll be like a parent of a baby, right?

00:50:26 ◼   ► Infant like you'll put it to sleep, and it will be woken up so I

00:50:30 ◼   ► Suggest if you want your computer to stay asleep not enabling that

00:50:34 ◼   ► Bluetooth devices Bluetooth devices love to wake up a computer. Why beats the hell out of me

00:50:40 ◼   ► That's one of the reasons I have Bluetooth turned off on my computer most of the time

00:50:43 ◼   ► Bluetooth like are they just

00:50:47 ◼   ► Lonely there are they glitching are they did someone nudge a mouse is there some kind of vibration?

00:50:53 ◼   ► But you know if you're trying to debug this this thing of like is a Bluetooth device waking up my computer turn off Bluetooth

00:50:59 ◼   ► Then at least you eliminate that problem hopefully by turning off Bluetooth

00:51:03 ◼   ► USB devices of all kinds love to wake up your computer again. Why why are they waking up your computer?

00:51:10 ◼   ► I don't know static electricity

00:51:13 ◼   ► Get somebody nudges them solar flares. Yeah, but bugs in the firmware like

00:51:19 ◼   ► External hard drives that USB hard drives that the thing tries to spin down when they're idle

00:51:25 ◼   ► But then like wake themselves back up like if you know and you'll see like wake reason HID

00:51:30 ◼   ► USB blah blah blah like what does that mean what what is waking up my computer?

00:51:35 ◼   ► Why won't you stay asleep again much like infants? Why won't you sleep? No?

00:51:38 ◼   ► Could you sleep for more than 30 minutes? You're killing me

00:51:42 ◼   ► So anyway, I went through that procedure with this computer over the course of the first week

00:51:47 ◼   ► I had it it did eventually get to the point where I am now where when I put it to sleep it stays asleep

00:51:51 ◼   ► until the scheduled wake up time, but it did take

00:51:55 ◼   ► Going through all this stuff for moving. I had a USB hard drive that was always connected

00:52:00 ◼   ► And I said you're not gonna be always connect

00:52:01 ◼   ► I'm only gonna connect you when I need to boot from boot camp and otherwise you're gonna sit on a shelf

00:52:05 ◼   ► Turned off Bluetooth disabled wake for network access

00:52:11 ◼   ► Found a bunch of other

00:52:12 ◼   ► Programs that were putting in assertions that were keeping it from idle sleeping and so I think I'm mostly okay

00:52:18 ◼   ► There's this other thing by the way called dark wake which is where I think it's where it wakes up

00:52:22 ◼   ► It doesn't turn the screen on I think that's this

00:52:24 ◼   ► Affiliated with power nap sometimes you'll see a dark wake anyway pm set minus G log will show you the sleep wakes

00:52:31 ◼   ► And I was graphing them

00:52:33 ◼   ► There is another stuff like the real-time clock and was it

00:52:37 ◼   ► Mdns resolver or whatever that thing is the thing that was discovery D. We got changed back

00:52:41 ◼   ► That wakes your computer every two hours to do some real-time clock maintenance something yada yada like

00:52:48 ◼   ► but anyway since you have a lot of these events you can graph them and see when is my computer waking up and when is

00:52:54 ◼   ► it going to sleep and

00:52:55 ◼   ► It has been improving to the point where I feel like it's an understandable predictable cadence

00:53:01 ◼   ► It will sort of wake up without turning the screen on and do some kind of maintenance

00:53:05 ◼   ► Thing that I'm pretty sure I can't stop it from doing I don't understand what real-time clock maintenance means other than perhaps I

00:53:11 ◼   ► Don't know synchronizing the real-time clock with an NTP sir

00:53:15 ◼   ► I don't know what the hell it's doing

00:53:16 ◼   ► But occasionally it wakes itself up every two hours briefly and does a thing and goes back to sleep

00:53:20 ◼   ► But as long as it mostly stays asleep

00:53:22 ◼   ► I'm I'm happy with it, so I

00:53:25 ◼   ► Don't know what if this is gonna help anybody except to let you know that if you are having problems with your computer

00:53:32 ◼   ► Waking up when you don't want it or problems with it

00:53:35 ◼   ► Going to sleep when you command it to or letting it go to sleep from idle

00:53:40 ◼   ► There's a world of pain out there

00:53:42 ◼   ► But it is possible to defeat it with a little bit of effort and process of elimination kind of like Casey with

00:53:47 ◼   ► Unplugging everything and turning everything off with this various routers and that story that may you may or may not have just heard in this podcast

00:53:53 ◼   ► Yeah, and this is one of the things about desktop computers that I feel like sleep wake battles can be won

00:54:02 ◼   ► Because the environment that they exist in is controlled in some way

00:54:05 ◼   ► It's not constantly on the go connecting to weird networks and having all sorts of weird peripherals and docking things

00:54:10 ◼   ► It's sitting in one place with one set of stuff connected to it

00:54:13 ◼   ► It is a winnable war

00:54:15 ◼   ► But the variety of things that think they need to wake or half wake up your Mac

00:54:21 ◼   ► Has grown over time and now I feel like it's just barely manageable

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00:56:30 ◼   ► Tell me about your finder toolbar battles

00:56:36 ◼   ► That's a toolbar they kept popping up and in the finder that I would dismiss and it would reveal itself again as I look at

00:56:42 ◼   ► The finder windows in the background now both of them have the toolbar visible despite me hiding a toolbar on both of those windows at

00:56:47 ◼   ► Least five times today. They're back

00:56:49 ◼   ► The theory on this and this was my theory as well

00:56:52 ◼   ► But I didn't know how to test it and didn't know how to fix it was that

00:56:55 ◼   ► Various third-party apps that can add toolbar buttons to the finder toolbar

00:57:00 ◼   ► Could be causing this to happen one of those apps is Dropbox

00:57:05 ◼   ► Which I believe let me go to customize toolbar and see if I can see it here

00:57:08 ◼   ► Yeah, there's a Dropbox item in customized toolbar

00:57:13 ◼   ► I don't have that item in my actual toolbar

00:57:16 ◼   ► But it's in the customized sheet

00:57:18 ◼   ► and I think something about the interaction between like whatever that plug-in is lurking inside Dropbox and the finder is

00:57:24 ◼   ► causing

00:57:26 ◼   ► Dropbox to do something that triggers the finder to show the toolbar and all the open windows. I

00:57:31 ◼   ► Can't really uninstall Dropbox because I want to use Dropbox. Oh you can I've done it

00:57:37 ◼   ► I'm Dropbox free and it's in terms of client app. Anyway, yeah, I think I use the web interface

00:57:42 ◼   ► What do you yeah?

00:57:43 ◼   ► What are you using like transmitter the web interface?

00:57:45 ◼   ► Web interface and the only time I ever really use it is to send you or mic files

00:57:49 ◼   ► Yeah, you've got that thing going on your Synology, but I'm not I'm not ready to do that

00:57:53 ◼   ► I use Dropbox not just for podcast up for personal stuff as well. That's what the Synology thing is for

00:57:58 ◼   ► Not attractive but I would like to

00:58:03 ◼   ► Find a way to disable the finder integration that used to be an option and many versions of Dropbox ago

00:58:10 ◼   ► There was a checkbox that says do you want finder integration?

00:58:13 ◼   ► I think that also applied to the little badges, but now there's an official Apple supported API for the badging

00:58:17 ◼   ► So there's no more checkbox because just you know, it's it's not a hack anymore. I

00:58:20 ◼   ► Think the the toolbar thing is also not a hack. It's also an official API. So this may be some kind of Catalina bug

00:58:27 ◼   ► but anyway, once again asking for help if anybody knows a

00:58:31 ◼   ► If it actually is Dropbox, I suppose I could uninstall it and find out so I should just do the experiment myself

00:58:36 ◼   ► but if it is Dropbox causing my toolbox to appear and be how I can stop Dropbox from

00:58:42 ◼   ► Insisting on putting that toolbar button there that I'm never going to put on my toolbars because I don't like toolbars Oh

00:58:48 ◼   ► John all right Marco you had an interesting post just a couple days ago about

00:58:54 ◼   ► Pro mode and low power mode. Would you care to talk to us about that?

00:58:58 ◼   ► I love that John and I now both blog so infrequently in Casey. I think you're you're getting there

00:59:04 ◼   ► We blog so infrequently that every time we post a blog post is worth discussion on this

00:59:11 ◼   ► show

00:59:13 ◼   ► This this topic was in the notes before you blogged about it because I thought it was hilarious

00:59:17 ◼   ► That there was a rumor that the thing that you've always wanted low power mode that the rumor was that Apple was doing the opposite. Oh

00:59:23 ◼   ► You want low power mode. How about high power mode? What do you think of that? Yeah, exactly

00:59:28 ◼   ► Yeah, so so there's this rumor from 9 to 5 a few days ago about

00:59:33 ◼   ► that in in a Catalina beta there were some string references found that suggests that Apple is working on a

00:59:40 ◼   ► Something called possibly Pro mode which would be a way to temporarily enable higher performance

00:59:46 ◼   ► and

00:59:47 ◼   ► They would kind of suggested that me it may be it might have to do with like raising the fan speeds to basically increase

00:59:53 ◼   ► the thermal output and so presumably like you know because modern laptops and computers like modern processors are

00:59:59 ◼   ► Limited with a certain thermal limit and if you apply more cooling to them they can usually get

01:00:07 ◼   ► More performance or at least longer sustained peak performance before having to throttle the the speeds

01:00:13 ◼   ► closer down to the base clock speed like modern modern Intel turbo boost basically lets the

01:00:18 ◼   ► CPUs burst way above the the advertised clock speed much of the time that they're in use and in fact

01:00:25 ◼   ► The average clock speed like on a normal operation that all that is is the minimum that they're guaranteed to be able to sustain under

01:00:32 ◼   ► Indefinite load but a lot of times even under a constant load

01:00:37 ◼   ► modern processors can sustain

01:00:40 ◼   ► way above their base clock

01:00:42 ◼   ► But they can sustain way way above it for a really short time

01:00:47 ◼   ► And so if you apply more cooling then they can sustain higher performance levels for longer times during busy workloads

01:00:55 ◼   ► And so that's what I assume Pro mode would be doing and that's a frequent demand especially from the

01:01:03 ◼   ► Video editing crowd for MacBook Pros

01:01:05 ◼   ► That's a very very common request of like

01:01:07 ◼   ► Youtubers or other video producers who were using MacBook Pros out in the field they want to render stuff as quickly as possible

01:01:12 ◼   ► And there are times when they don't care about fan noise. They just need something to be done quickly

01:01:16 ◼   ► And so you know that would ideally benefit that crowd

01:01:20 ◼   ► but what I want is indeed the opposite I

01:01:24 ◼   ► Want what I've been running on my laptop for a while now. I want a first-party solution on my laptop

01:01:30 ◼   ► I've been running turbo boost switch or pro for I don't know like four years now. It's been a while

01:01:35 ◼   ► I've been running this and

01:01:37 ◼   ► What I love about it is that it lets you disable turbo boost completely and you can also automatically disable it based on

01:01:44 ◼   ► Whether you're on battery or not

01:01:46 ◼   ► So you could like automatically disable it when you're running on battery and then when you're plugged in it automatically gets enabled

01:01:51 ◼   ► I've actually usually just kept it disabled all the time and

01:01:55 ◼   ► Then if I really need high performance I go to the menu bar and toggle it and then toggle it back when I'm done

01:02:00 ◼   ► But that's becoming less and less common that I actually need that higher performance and the rest of the time

01:02:06 ◼   ► It may seem weird that I am buying a processor that's capable of significantly higher performance that then what I ended up limiting it to

01:02:14 ◼   ► but

01:02:16 ◼   ► It's actually really really nice

01:02:18 ◼   ► When performance is not your highest priority

01:02:22 ◼   ► To have a laptop that is much more pleasant to use in other ways

01:02:26 ◼   ► So when you disable turbo boost you lose a lot of your single thread performance

01:02:32 ◼   ► It could be up to half of your single thread performance

01:02:34 ◼   ► Multi-core performance gets reduced a lot less because when you're using all the cores turbo boost can't boost as high anyway

01:02:41 ◼   ► so using all the cores with

01:02:43 ◼   ► Turbo's disabled you're looking at maybe losing about a third of your performance of it depending on the processor you have and how many cores

01:02:49 ◼   ► Etc. But anyway, multi-core is not effective as much as single core, but what's great about this is

01:02:55 ◼   ► That the laptop when not using turbo boost

01:02:58 ◼   ► runs

01:03:00 ◼   ► Significantly cooler because the maximum wattage is significantly capped way lower

01:03:05 ◼   ► You can look at my blog post for all the actual numbers here, but it runs way cooler and

01:03:10 ◼   ► That also means that the fans almost never spin up

01:03:14 ◼   ► It's almost impossible to have the fans spin up when it's in when turbo boost is disabled

01:03:19 ◼   ► In fact, I heard from a lot of people who like playing games this way because it keeps the fans from just going crazy when they're gaming

01:03:26 ◼   ► Windows has a control that I think does this there is like a slider and windows that it's like performance or battery life and

01:03:34 ◼   ► And I I don't know

01:03:36 ◼   ► I don't know what that's adjusting but people pointed out as a thing in response to this. But anyway, so

01:03:42 ◼   ► When you run disabled, so it runs way cooler it runs way quieter and you get way more battery life

01:03:49 ◼   ► So you are giving up a good amount of performance

01:03:52 ◼   ► But a lot of times that's not noticeable like most of the time I run my laptop this way and it's fine

01:03:57 ◼   ► you know most of the work I'm doing on a laptop is

01:04:00 ◼   ► casual work like

01:04:02 ◼   ► You know email web social stuff with occasional bursts of Xcode productivity and when I'm doing that

01:04:07 ◼   ► like I can get through a whole cross-country flight using Xcode and

01:04:12 ◼   ► Not worry about the battery because it actually will last the entire flight

01:04:16 ◼   ► Pushing it with Xcode without a problem when this when turbo boost is disabled

01:04:20 ◼   ► So it's a wonderful way to have a laptop and the reason I asked for it now

01:04:25 ◼   ► Is you know, not only is there a chance that Apple's listening and therefore?

01:04:29 ◼   ► You know, like I figure like hey while you're in there while you're making an option for pro mode

01:04:34 ◼   ► This would be a perfect like other end of that slider

01:04:38 ◼   ► Give us low power mode

01:04:40 ◼   ► iOS has low power mode people use it all the time. It's a great idea because you know the point

01:04:46 ◼   ► I'm in making the post is like

01:04:48 ◼   ► All these trade-offs of like power and heat versus performance and battery life

01:04:53 ◼   ► Apple chooses one

01:04:56 ◼   ► balance of those trade-offs for each product generally and it's fixed in stone forever and

01:05:01 ◼   ► Sometimes I want peak performance

01:05:05 ◼   ► Sometimes I don't care about battery life, but sometimes I want the laptop to run cool and not burn my legs and not make my

01:05:12 ◼   ► hands sweaty

01:05:13 ◼   ► and I don't want to hear the fan spinning up constantly and I already need the battery to last for a whole cross-country flight because the

01:05:17 ◼   ► power outlet in my seat is broken like there are times when I want a different balance and

01:05:22 ◼   ► Normally Apple does not let us control that balance of performance versus everything else

01:05:28 ◼   ► iOS is low power mode is one of the only times they've ever given us a control over that

01:05:34 ◼   ► That we can say on iOS, you know what right now I care more about longest battery life possible than

01:05:41 ◼   ► Everything being exactly fast exactly, you know up to date with you know background updates and stuff like that

01:05:46 ◼   ► Like they give us that control and there's lots of software stuff

01:05:49 ◼   ► You can do as well in which they do in iOS low power mode, you know stuff like on the Mac

01:05:52 ◼   ► I you know, you can disable photos indexing you can disable spotlight

01:05:55 ◼   ► You know

01:05:56 ◼   ► You can disable software updates iTunes downloads like a whole bunch of stuff that Macs do automatically in the background

01:06:01 ◼   ► even when they're on battery you can

01:06:03 ◼   ► If a proper low power mode could actually turn all those things off

01:06:06 ◼   ► in addition to modifying turbo booster or CPU thermal limits

01:06:11 ◼   ► anyway

01:06:12 ◼   ► So on iOS we have this one switch that we have low power mode and that's great. We need that sometimes

01:06:20 ◼   ► People seem to like it. It seems to be a great success and I think there's no real major downside to it there

01:06:27 ◼   ► that obviously

01:06:30 ◼   ► One fixed balance of performance versus other factors doesn't fit everybody all the time

01:06:37 ◼   ► So it's nice to have a control

01:06:39 ◼   ► So on the Mac if they're gonna add a control in the other direction like making it, you know pro mode

01:06:45 ◼   ► This is the perfect time to also add this one add low power mode

01:06:49 ◼   ► it seems like they were making it work in a similar way where like

01:06:52 ◼   ► You can't really leave it that way all the time easily

01:06:55 ◼   ► You'd have to like turn it on and then automatically turns itself off tomorrow or something like that. Like that's fine

01:07:01 ◼   ► I could deal with that. And the reason that I'm caring about this now is

01:07:05 ◼   ► because

01:07:07 ◼   ► turbo boost switcher pro is

01:07:09 ◼   ► Probably going to stop working later this year with whatever the next version of Mac OS is

01:07:14 ◼   ► because it shows this warning on Catalina of like

01:07:17 ◼   ► This developer needs to update this because it won't work with a future version of this of Mac OS which of course means

01:07:23 ◼   ► Probably next year's verb this year's version. So I'm I'm concerned that

01:07:27 ◼   ► This utility that I've been using to approximate low power mode that I like the effect a lot

01:07:33 ◼   ► It's probably gonna stop working in about a year

01:07:36 ◼   ► That's why I'm hoping Apple will add this because a proper low power mode on Mac OS

01:07:42 ◼   ► Has all the same benefits that it does on the iPhone

01:07:46 ◼   ► Also, apparently I haven't verified this but people people have told me that it's not even on the iPad yet

01:07:52 ◼   ► and that I think also would be a good addition like

01:07:55 ◼   ► We have batteries and all these devices pretty much everything that does not plug into the wall should probably have a low power mode

01:08:01 ◼   ► I have

01:08:03 ◼   ► Nothing to add other than to say I completely agree with you and you know, I think this is

01:08:08 ◼   ► This is needed. I think low power mode is needed and I also think you know the low data mode

01:08:13 ◼   ► Which is also available in iOS, you know something that you can approximate with trip mode

01:08:17 ◼   ► I think both of those are long overdue and I really wish both of them existed and I'm sad that neither of them do

01:08:24 ◼   ► Yeah, oh and and by the way, there are other options if you're willing to disable system integrity protection

01:08:30 ◼   ► I'm not that's I think not really an option. So

01:08:34 ◼   ► So rule those right out

01:08:36 ◼   ► We had all those stories where in the mac Pro came out where everyone was trying to configure the most expensive mac Pro

01:08:41 ◼   ► If this pro mode feature ever does actually ship I can't wait to see people seeing how fast they can burn the battery down from

01:08:49 ◼   ► Full charge by enabling promote and doing some sort of CPU intensive thing

01:08:53 ◼   ► Giving it more thermal headroom to run sustained at higher frequencies for longer

01:08:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it's kind of weird that I mean, I understand, you know the you know, whatever the pro apps team

01:09:05 ◼   ► What's the name of that team? There's the pro workflow group. There you go

01:09:08 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure they're saying exactly like you're saying like sometimes, you know

01:09:12 ◼   ► I'm in a situation where even if I'm on battery, I want maximum power right now to get something done ASAP

01:09:18 ◼   ► I don't care if my battery is deleted by depleted by the end of it

01:09:21 ◼   ► so be great if I had a mode that would remove the limits on the fans because

01:09:25 ◼   ► historically even on their laptops Apple has

01:09:28 ◼   ► Favored

01:09:31 ◼   ► throttling down

01:09:34 ◼   ► The the CPU and everything rather than running the fans at screaming

01:09:39 ◼   ► speed all the time and a lot of times if people do temperature sensing and say like it'd be great if Apple ran their fans a

01:09:45 ◼   ► Little bit faster and sped them up a little bit sooner because it seems like stuff's getting pretty toasty in there

01:09:50 ◼   ► And maybe it's like too toasty but Apple's sort of in balancing that equation thinking

01:09:55 ◼   ► Well, let's balance a little bit more in favor of noise

01:09:59 ◼   ► So I see how the pro workflow group would say that balance is not really the right balance for us

01:10:04 ◼   ► So can you give us a mode where we crank it up?

01:10:06 ◼   ► But it is really amazing that you know if this again that this rumor is true

01:10:10 ◼   ► to even think that they would do this and not do low power mode because like is there the

01:10:17 ◼   ► non pro workflow group saying

01:10:19 ◼   ► Everybody wants more battery life on their laptops. Like everybody wants that it's why it's on phones

01:10:25 ◼   ► Like it is not an uncommon desire to say boy. I wish this laptop had more battery life

01:10:30 ◼   ► Maybe the optimistic take is like well

01:10:33 ◼   ► Don't you worry about that because when the arm laptops come you're gonna have more battery life than you know what to do with but

01:10:38 ◼   ► It doesn't really make much sense because the phones are arm and they have low power mode. So I

01:10:42 ◼   ► Really? I really really hope low power mode

01:10:45 ◼   ► Comes out is a higher priority than this the opposite of low power mode

01:10:51 ◼   ► Like it's it seems like the priority should be low power mode first and then kind of like the Mac Pro

01:10:57 ◼   ► For those weird Pro people. Yeah, okay the

01:11:00 ◼   ► You know, I love it. They call it Pro mode and the strings by the way, like they can't call like

01:11:04 ◼   ► battery sucking mode or

01:11:07 ◼   ► Drain your battery mode, but by the way to like like there's also a problem of like

01:11:12 ◼   ► All the modern high-end like large laptops like the 15 inch and the 16 inch when you run them at full blast

01:11:19 ◼   ► They actually draw more power than their wall adapters can supply and so they actually will slowly deplete their own batteries

01:11:26 ◼   ► Even when plugged in so I'm not sure you would want a pro mode that would make that even faster

01:11:33 ◼   ► like because all that would do would be suck more power and

01:11:38 ◼   ► Again, I wouldn't be able to keep up from it from its own wall wart. And so you would have the situation where

01:11:43 ◼   ► You would be draining your internal battery

01:11:46 ◼   ► faster faster

01:11:49 ◼   ► maybe again

01:11:50 ◼   ► like maybe you want that but I think my my concern with this as you were just kind of alluding to is it has seemed on

01:11:56 ◼   ► a number of occasions recently that

01:11:59 ◼   ► The pro workflow group that Apple seems to be designing their pro products for these days

01:12:05 ◼   ► Might not be as diverse as it needs to be

01:12:08 ◼   ► we talked about this a few weeks ago that like it certainly seems like Apple is

01:12:13 ◼   ► Basically designing computers for video editors and that's great. There are a lot of video editors out there

01:12:20 ◼   ► but that's not their only customer segment and

01:12:25 ◼   ► video editors have very different needs than almost anybody else and

01:12:30 ◼   ► so I hope that

01:12:33 ◼   ► Their product direction reflects the needs of lots of types of customers and that they aren't

01:12:39 ◼   ► only

01:12:41 ◼   ► Prioritizing basically what youtubers want like that? That would be unfortunate

01:12:45 ◼   ► And I I don't think they are that you know narrow-sided and but certainly sometimes it seems that way and you know

01:12:54 ◼   ► Some of the direction some of the products do seem that way

01:12:56 ◼   ► But this would be an area where like I hope that John's right

01:13:01 ◼   ► I hope they have heard not just from video editors who say please let me crank this laptop even faster

01:13:08 ◼   ► Sometimes and burn my battery even faster

01:13:10 ◼   ► but also from

01:13:12 ◼   ► Literally everybody else who would be like hey, you know what most the time I would like more battery life

01:13:15 ◼   ► Please and maybe not have it be so hot and loud

01:13:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like this constituency of pro users

01:13:21 ◼   ► It was neglected for so long that they did the right thing and made this pro workflow team to

01:13:27 ◼   ► Get get their own sort of in-house

01:13:30 ◼   ► You know microcosm of that constituency to find out how they can make things better for them

01:13:35 ◼   ► And I don't think it's just video editors like you just look at the Mac Pro thing

01:13:38 ◼   ► They had audio editors with a big soundtrack and I have photographers and they have 3d artists, right?

01:13:43 ◼   ► But it's it's basically all all of the types of applications that really can use all the power available if you just give them more

01:13:50 ◼   ► of it

01:13:51 ◼   ► Despite that, you know as we've quoted many times and they say in their keynotes that the developers are number one pro customer

01:13:57 ◼   ► But developers are not represented. Well if at all by the pro workflow team it seems

01:14:01 ◼   ► But the other side of that is like yeah, so I want I think of the pro work for team is like lobbyists

01:14:07 ◼   ► I want them lobbying for the wild stuff that they need right but

01:14:12 ◼   ► there needs to be like

01:14:15 ◼   ► The reason you needed to make that is because that's a constituency that you weren't paying attention to so form this group

01:14:20 ◼   ► Presumably you were paying attention to everybody else before that but now it seems like you have this

01:14:27 ◼   ► vocal

01:14:29 ◼   ► powerful group within the company lobbying for exactly what they're supposed to be lobbying for their needs and

01:14:34 ◼   ► Whatever everybody else's needs are either

01:14:38 ◼   ► Like maybe the company thinks oh, we don't need any sort of

01:14:42 ◼   ► In-house constituency for that because that's just everybody else and that's just us. That's just our product managers

01:14:47 ◼   ► We know what we needed to but it seems like

01:14:49 ◼   ► You know the voice of the voice of the customer like the non pro customer

01:14:55 ◼   ► Isn't there's a disconnect between I think what sort of the mainstream non pro Mac customer in particular

01:15:03 ◼   ► Wants out of Apple's products and what they're providing from everything from low power mode to number of ports and convenience to

01:15:09 ◼   ► Battery life and you know all that stuff price. Yeah price another good one

01:15:13 ◼   ► Whereas on the phone, I think the non pro constituency is very well represented

01:15:19 ◼   ► They made the phones bigger and thicker and have more battery life and actually made them cheaper

01:15:23 ◼   ► Like if you look at the recent trend in iPhones

01:15:25 ◼   ► It's so clear that the sort of non pro regular person constituency has been getting things that they like

01:15:32 ◼   ► And the things that you know, we wanted many years ago and they're delivering on now

01:15:36 ◼   ► So I don't think that's a problem in the phones when it comes to the Mac

01:15:40 ◼   ► You know

01:15:41 ◼   ► I'm happy that they're catering to the pro things and making this crazy computer that I'm sitting in front of but it's clear that

01:15:46 ◼   ► The rest of the Mac line could use a little bit more like I don't think you need to make a non pro workflow team

01:15:52 ◼   ► I think that should be just a function of the whole rest of the product org, but I think there's still a disconnect there

01:15:57 ◼   ► I think they they need to have a meeting of the minds with

01:16:01 ◼   ► the the mass of their regular non pro customers to get on the same page about what they want like

01:16:07 ◼   ► Considering looking at the 16-inch but really that's that's a pro product as well

01:16:13 ◼   ► And yes, it does have a bigger battery but mostly for the needs of pros and speaking of that

01:16:17 ◼   ► Draining the battery even went on power. Did they does the 16-inch come with higher wattage power brick than the

01:16:23 ◼   ► 15-inch yes, well it went from 87 to

01:16:27 ◼   ► 95 I believe 96 and can it still outrun that you're saying that if you take the 16-inch and you crank it without any special

01:16:34 ◼   ► Tweaks you can outrun the that power adapter. I haven't heard specifically on the 16-inch whether it still does that

01:16:39 ◼   ► I know that I know the 15 inches before it all the recent ones could do that indeed

01:16:44 ◼   ► You have to I believe stress the CPU and the GPU

01:16:47 ◼   ► Which is pretty easy to do if you're doing something like a video in code. Yeah, so anyway, I think

01:16:51 ◼   ► We still need

01:16:54 ◼   ► We don't need a roundtable and we don't need a non pro workflow group, but I think we do need

01:17:00 ◼   ► Some closer connection between the desires of the mass of non pro customers and what Apple's non pro

01:17:08 ◼   ► Mac groups are putting out

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01:19:01 ◼   ► John you've been taking a tour of mice and keyboards and things and

01:19:10 ◼   ► you have put four different mice mouses in the show notes and

01:19:14 ◼   ► I'm

01:19:17 ◼   ► I'm having a problem and if you wouldn't mind, can you explain to me?

01:19:22 ◼   ► How it is you can steadfastly and adamantly and petulantly

01:19:26 ◼   ► Refuse to have an LG monitor with a little LG logo on it

01:19:30 ◼   ► But you can have these four f***ing abominations on your desk and be okay with that

01:19:35 ◼   ► Apple doesn't make a mouse that I like Apple makes one mouse

01:19:40 ◼   ► I mean in different colors, right, but that that's the only mouse they make is the little sushi thing

01:19:44 ◼   ► It's really low and I don't like a low mouse. Yes. I understand that but these are hideous

01:19:51 ◼   ► How can you be so upset about the LG display and look at these and be like, yeah, okay, that's fine

01:19:56 ◼   ► In all fairness you aren't supposed to look at your input peripherals as you're using them. Whereas you are looking at your monitor

01:20:03 ◼   ► Yeah, but still I mean Marco if you haven't yet you need to look at these links in the show notes because oh

01:20:09 ◼   ► Boy, the Microsoft one isn't bad

01:20:12 ◼   ► but as a Windows logo on it and every other one is pretty bad if we're saying that the

01:20:19 ◼   ► Bar for bad is the LG logo on the front of the display then these are all hideous

01:20:24 ◼   ► No, I the LG logo is the least of the ultra fines problems

01:20:28 ◼   ► I don't like so what we're looking at here is three Logitech's and a Microsoft mouse and these aren't even like the super like

01:20:35 ◼   ► You know lit up RGB LED kind of like super gaming mice like those I think are a little bit tacky by design

01:20:41 ◼   ► And that's what that market wants. And so that's fine. I but like these are

01:20:46 ◼   ► fairly pedestrian looking mice like, you know, it would be the MX master is the like

01:20:52 ◼   ► bulkiest, you know most complicated looking one and even it has a

01:20:56 ◼   ► Fairly tame like design aesthetic compared to its market of mostly like gamers

01:21:03 ◼   ► I'm easy enthusiasts like it is actually a pretty tame looking option

01:21:06 ◼   ► But I don't I don't think this is that bad. I I've seen way worse mice

01:21:11 ◼   ► In fact TIFF owns a way worse mouse that we bought to match for a ridiculous gaming PC that has like, you know

01:21:16 ◼   ► RGB lights and everything, of course

01:21:18 ◼   ► No, the Microsoft mouse actually think is pretty decent looking but it has a Windows logo on it, which I thought would just

01:21:23 ◼   ► Absolutely infuriate the John Syracuse of 20 years ago or whatever, you know, actually you could sand that off. I bet

01:21:30 ◼   ► like a lot of times like I did that I

01:21:33 ◼   ► My car has little USB ports in the in the center console that you can plug in for either music or actually you can record

01:21:40 ◼   ► The footage from the cameras as dash cam footage onto USB and I got one of those little tiny

01:21:46 ◼   ► almost like flush USB drives for it like a little Sam and and it was a Samsung one and it had

01:21:52 ◼   ► Samsung written across it and it's and it was such a small thing

01:21:56 ◼   ► I was like this I don't want my car to be screaming Samsung out of this little USB thing

01:22:00 ◼   ► And so when it came I got some sandpaper out of my garage and just gently sand it off the logo and it was fine

01:22:06 ◼   ► And so I have a now I have a blank USB stick in my car and it's wonderful

01:22:10 ◼   ► And this is like we never think of that as an option like you can just slightly modify some hardware that you don't maybe like

01:22:18 ◼   ► or you know something about it like you can you can just

01:22:20 ◼   ► Grind that thing off or sand that thing off and usually it's fairly unintrusive and it's everything's fine

01:22:26 ◼   ► So yeah, so I feel like John could theoretically just sand off this Windows logo of this mouse and it would probably be fine

01:22:34 ◼   ► Alright with all that said John tell me about all of these mice and what what you do and do not like from them

01:22:40 ◼   ► Well, so here's where I'm coming from

01:22:41 ◼   ► I'm coming off of you know

01:22:43 ◼   ► I was using a 10 year old computer and I think the mouse I was using was even older than that

01:22:47 ◼   ► Maybe maybe not it was it was an MX

01:22:49 ◼   ► Not even an MX 300 I was using originally Logitech wheel mouse. It didn't have a product name. There was no nice anything like that

01:22:57 ◼   ► And I think it was replaced with an M

01:23:01 ◼   ► 300 model that was basically the same size and shape that I got off of like eBay or whatever

01:23:05 ◼   ► I did I wore out some part of it and eventually had to buy another placement

01:23:10 ◼   ► but

01:23:11 ◼   ► The shape of the mouse was what I wanted. It was it had straight sides

01:23:15 ◼   ► and it was

01:23:18 ◼   ► Somewhere it was higher than the Apple Mouse

01:23:20 ◼   ► But lower than some of the really big sort of palm filling

01:23:24 ◼   ► giant snail mice, right

01:23:27 ◼   ► And two buttons and how to scroll wheel and when I was looking for a replacement I was like well

01:23:34 ◼   ► All right, this mouse is kind of old new computer

01:23:37 ◼   ► Reconsider everything. Let me look at some new mice. I

01:23:40 ◼   ► Was mostly shopping based on shape, but when I started shopping around for mice modern mice that are not like 10 years old

01:23:48 ◼   ► You know, I use the Apple one right and I didn't like it and when I was shopping for new ones I

01:23:54 ◼   ► Very quickly came to the conclusion that if you're shopping in sort of the high end of consumer mice not getting into gaming mice quite

01:24:02 ◼   ► Yet, but just the high end of consumer mice

01:24:04 ◼   ► They are all better than Apple's mouse like full stop now

01:24:09 ◼   ► I know you don't like the logos and I know you think they look weird

01:24:11 ◼   ► But here's the thing stuff that goes in your hand very often looks weird. Look at the TiVo remote. Look at most OXO

01:24:18 ◼   ► Things that you can buy and like I weird cheese grater. Look at hand tools. It's not a beauty contest

01:24:24 ◼   ► SimiFruity doesn't win you anything

01:24:26 ◼   ► It's got to fit in your hand

01:24:28 ◼   ► Which is not symmetrical and as lumpy and weird and has five appendages and ones coming out the side

01:24:33 ◼   ► it's

01:24:35 ◼   ► It's not

01:24:36 ◼   ► You know, you're not gonna make a perfect, you know conical section or this beautiful solid. It's not going to be ergonomically good

01:24:43 ◼   ► So that's one thing so yeah, they look weird and they are weird shapes

01:24:47 ◼   ► But they are shaped to fit your hand better than apples is shaped to fit your hand

01:24:51 ◼   ► If you don't use it in exactly the way Apple wants you to use it as sort of like a thing

01:24:55 ◼   ► That is barely there beneath your hand, which is not how I use a mouse

01:24:58 ◼   ► I kind of grip it from the side with my thumb on one side and my pinky and ring finger on the other side

01:25:04 ◼   ► And the two things on the top, right?

01:25:06 ◼   ► second thing is

01:25:08 ◼   ► That the the controls themselves like there's lots more physical controls on

01:25:13 ◼   ► These non Apple mice obviously Apple is the elegant solution of just the entire continuous surface and it clicks down and it's really nice

01:25:20 ◼   ► And it's a touch service. It's beautiful elephant elegant Apple solution, but it has limits as discussed last time

01:25:24 ◼   ► You can't hold down the right mouse button and click the left mouse button because it's one big mouse button surprise

01:25:29 ◼   ► That's limiting in games and in weird complicated apps. It doesn't have a scroll wheel

01:25:34 ◼   ► It has a scroll gesture and I don't like that as I described it the same way with the Apple TV remote

01:25:39 ◼   ► Where when I go to grow to grab the mouse?

01:25:41 ◼   ► I don't want any accidental scrolling happening because my fingers brush the touch sensitive surface

01:25:45 ◼   ► I don't like thinking that it's a alive beast that if I pet the wrong way something's gonna happen on my screen

01:25:50 ◼   ► I like physical buttons and

01:25:53 ◼   ► That's what you'll get on most of these third-party mice

01:25:55 ◼   ► And in particular the physical controls on the expensive third-party mice are nice

01:26:01 ◼   ► We talked about this in cars or on toasters knob feel button feel

01:26:06 ◼   ► How do the controls feel they feel cheap or expensive?

01:26:09 ◼   ► Did they make lots of noise you both remember my scroll wheel on my old mouse so you could hear it in lots of recordings

01:26:14 ◼   ► You know, I don't have it in front of me, so I can't spin it for you

01:26:17 ◼   ► But it was very noisy and didn't feel good and was kind of gross. We've come a long way there

01:26:22 ◼   ► So that's what I was shopping based on and my thought process was

01:26:26 ◼   ► Try to find something more or less same size and shape as my other one

01:26:29 ◼   ► But that has a much nicer scroll wheel and some good buttons and I was open to the idea of Bluetooth and a lot of them

01:26:35 ◼   ► Are offered in Bluetooth, but I wasn't you know wedded to it

01:26:37 ◼   ► I did I did want like the idea of not having a cord because my previous mouse was corded only and it's

01:26:42 ◼   ► kind of hard snaking that cord onto my

01:26:44 ◼   ► Keyboard train was like you know what you just get rid of that cord and I have to worry about it

01:26:48 ◼   ► It'll be nice if I could be wireless, but it wasn't a deal breaker

01:26:52 ◼   ► So I got the Microsoft. What is it called Microsoft precision mouse? It's also called the surface precision mouse, which is Microsoft's fancy mouse. I

01:26:59 ◼   ► Tried it in the Microsoft store talked about that before I got it in black. Of course with the pro thing

01:27:05 ◼   ► I got the Logitech marathon mouse m705

01:27:09 ◼   ► Which was a sort of middle-of-the-road not super high-end

01:27:13 ◼   ► Logitech mouse

01:27:16 ◼   ► And so that was my other and I also had tried that and like I think I tried it in like a staples or something

01:27:21 ◼   ► I was buying school supplies for the kids and I remembered the model so, you know again

01:27:24 ◼   ► I highly recommend going to a store and trying these things before you you know buy based on a picture or whatever. I

01:27:31 ◼   ► Did look at the gaming mice and I see a couple of contenders there in particular Logitech g305 light speed

01:27:38 ◼   ► looks like a

01:27:40 ◼   ► mostly RGB less or RGB light

01:27:43 ◼   ► mouse that I'm looking at because it

01:27:47 ◼   ► It seems like it's about the right size and shape but I'm not gonna buy it until I've gone to a store to hold it

01:27:54 ◼   ► I think Best Buy might have it but I haven't had a chance to go to the store

01:27:57 ◼   ► So I don't have that mouse. So we'll put the link in the show. It's anyways, you can look at it, but

01:28:00 ◼   ► in particular the gaming mice concentrate on

01:28:03 ◼   ► the sensitivity of the sensor and all sorts of stuff having to do with the DPI and for gaming or whatever and they you know

01:28:09 ◼   ► Working on lots of surfaces and not having lag and those are all good things too

01:28:13 ◼   ► Like I even though I'm not buying I'm not buying it for gaming

01:28:16 ◼   ► I like the idea of that and I can tell it with it sort of like my old janky mouse as an example

01:28:21 ◼   ► Good sensors good optical sensors versus bad ones

01:28:24 ◼   ► You can tell the difference when you're using them like in terms of what kind of resolution does it have and what kind of services?

01:28:30 ◼   ► Does it work on or whatever?

01:28:31 ◼   ► and then finally

01:28:33 ◼   ► somebody from Logitech apparently listens to this program because a package came in the mail today that had a little handwritten note that said I

01:28:39 ◼   ► Don't have it in front of you. It was like

01:28:42 ◼   ► Hello greetings from Logitech. We we like the show enjoy. So someone from logic sent me a bunch of logic peripherals for free and

01:28:49 ◼   ► That's why I also have a Logitech MX master 3 sitting right here. They also sent

01:28:56 ◼   ► bonus item

01:28:58 ◼   ► The magnetic camera thing that attaches to the top of your protos play XDR and I'll talk about that a little bit later

01:29:04 ◼   ► No, that's cool. And they also sent a Logitech keyboard

01:29:08 ◼   ► But mice first the thing I didn't think about when I bought these mice

01:29:13 ◼   ► It didn't occur to me until I got them all my house and started using them

01:29:16 ◼   ► But I had telling people listening now so they think about it as well

01:29:20 ◼   ► Obviously, maybe no one cares

01:29:22 ◼   ► the underside of the mice

01:29:24 ◼   ► Who whoever looks at the bottom who cares what's in the bottom of the mouse, right?

01:29:29 ◼   ► It's like the sensors down there. But other than that like there's no you know, I'm in the store. I'm looking into them

01:29:33 ◼   ► I'm feeling the buttons. I'm feeling the wheels. I'm feeling the shape and I'm not looking at the bottom of the mouse

01:29:37 ◼   ► I should have been looking at the bottom of the mouse. I see the bottom of mine sometimes you do sure

01:29:42 ◼   ► Yeah, and then you stab it in its belly

01:29:44 ◼   ► But you know without looking I mean maybe you know this because you do charge it like a harpoon turtle

01:29:51 ◼   ► But without shooting and looking what's on the bottom of your mouse? What's going on down there?

01:29:55 ◼   ► There's a switch to turn it on and off

01:29:57 ◼   ► There's a charging hole and then there's the two long like rails of anti skid material that I have to scrape all the gunk off

01:30:04 ◼   ► Of sometimes yeah, so I mean, you know because you're cleaning it also because you harpoon it

01:30:08 ◼   ► But yeah that the Apple Mouse has two long vertical strips that go down the sides of the mouse two parallel lines of

01:30:14 ◼   ► Slippery material or whatever. Yeah, it cleans stuff off of those. I guess

01:30:18 ◼   ► Yeah

01:30:20 ◼   ► I should have looked at my old janky ancient lie detect mouse

01:30:25 ◼   ► Because one of the things I liked about that mouse that I quickly found is how it feels

01:30:33 ◼   ► Sliding across my mousing surface mousing services just as it's an Amazon basics mouse pad at this point like a mouse pads the holiday ratio

01:30:40 ◼   ► I really need to get a bigger one, but my keyboard tray is oddly shaped. So it's a pain

01:30:43 ◼   ► I might have to buy one and cut it. But anyway, it's just like I don't know mousepad material regular mousepad, but here

01:30:49 ◼   ► It's very thin. It's not like one of those thick ancient mouse pads from the 90s, right?

01:30:52 ◼   ► It's very thin but in the end it's a rubbery thing with kind of like a fabric surface on it

01:30:56 ◼   ► That's what I like to mouse on I'm open to other mounting services

01:30:59 ◼   ► But history has shown as I've tried many different ones is what I like

01:31:03 ◼   ► the way the little

01:31:05 ◼   ► Feet or whatever things on the bottom of your mouse slide across that surface makes a big difference in how a mouse feels

01:31:13 ◼   ► And if you've never looked down there or never made that connection if you have a mouse that you really like or really hate it

01:31:19 ◼   ► Could have something to do with how it actually interfaces with the surface. You're sliding it across my old lie detect had four feet

01:31:27 ◼   ► I think they're teflon because it's like a fairly slippery looking plastic

01:31:30 ◼   ► Four little tiny ovals of teflon at the four corners of the mouse

01:31:35 ◼   ► it was a fairly normal shape sort of rectangular mouse with a rounded back just four little things and

01:31:39 ◼   ► The mouse was very light all that meant that it slid very easily and silently

01:31:46 ◼   ► I know Casey's rolling his eyes when I'm talking about the noise my smile

01:31:49 ◼   ► The Apple one has way more contact than the four little points and I think is also heavier

01:31:59 ◼   ► So I don't you know, I don't we need to get dr. Drang here with coefficients of friction and all sorts of other stuff like

01:32:04 ◼   ► Spreading the weight across a larger area is good, but having slippery or materials

01:32:11 ◼   ► It's also good at being lighter weight is even better

01:32:13 ◼   ► Anyway, all this is to say I did not look at the bottom of any of the mice I got I should have

01:32:18 ◼   ► so for example

01:32:21 ◼   ► the Microsoft Mouse

01:32:23 ◼   ► You look at the bottom of this sucker

01:32:25 ◼   ► it instead of having

01:32:27 ◼   ► Some pads or rails it has the entire

01:32:30 ◼   ► Perimeter of the mouse like all like around the entire edge of the outer edge

01:32:35 ◼   ► just one big long continuous trail that goes around the entire outer edge of the of the bottom of the mouse and that is the

01:32:42 ◼   ► slippery stuff

01:32:45 ◼   ► Logitech mouse

01:32:46 ◼   ► has

01:32:48 ◼   ► five pads

01:32:49 ◼   ► four big triangle two big triangular ones at the back two squarish ones at the front and

01:32:55 ◼   ► Fifth one that's kind of off to the side where the little thumb thingy is

01:32:59 ◼   ► the MX master 3 has two

01:33:02 ◼   ► Vertical rails not as long as the Apple one but one on the left and one on the right and then it has two

01:33:07 ◼   ► semicircles on the front and the back

01:33:09 ◼   ► All this makes a difference and it factors in with the weight of the mouse as well

01:33:13 ◼   ► In how it feels and how it sounds going across the surface the Microsoft Mouse in the beginning

01:33:18 ◼   ► I put it down on a mouse, but I slid it and I'm like, oh no

01:33:22 ◼   ► This is not gonna work it was hard to slide and it made it like a noise like a

01:33:29 ◼   ► Sort of like fingers scraping across fabric and I was like am I imagining things I took my old mouse

01:33:36 ◼   ► I put it down and I moved it total silence and it moves really easily put the micro source mouse on it

01:33:40 ◼   ► Much harder to move and makes noise

01:33:43 ◼   ► Should have checked that but I didn't

01:33:46 ◼   ► Logitech mouse

01:33:48 ◼   ► The the the marathon not as quiet as my old one but quieter than the Microsoft one

01:33:53 ◼   ► But I didn't you know

01:33:56 ◼   ► Live and learn I didn't look at that, but I still wanted to give them all a fair shot

01:34:00 ◼   ► so one thing I learned by giving them all a fair shot is

01:34:03 ◼   ► There is a break-in period for a new mouse where the slippery junk on the bottom of the mouse

01:34:09 ◼   ► gets slipperier

01:34:11 ◼   ► today in the Microsoft Mouse

01:34:14 ◼   ► If I feel with my finger that little slippery rim, I think it's more slippery. I think it's been slowly been polishing it

01:34:20 ◼   ► It doesn't change the weight of the mouse and it doesn't change how the weight how the weight is distributed on the pad

01:34:25 ◼   ► But it does change the sound in the feel it gets slippery err

01:34:28 ◼   ► I have a feeling that my 10 year old logic mouse or even older than that

01:34:32 ◼   ► The really old janky one

01:34:35 ◼   ► Probably is way slipperier now

01:34:37 ◼   ► Then it was when I bought it kind of like if you buy a car and two years later you get better zero 60 times

01:34:42 ◼   ► Like you break the thing in right?

01:34:44 ◼   ► So I wasn't gonna reject these mice for the tracking but I did want to note

01:34:49 ◼   ► that the most important thing I learned from this experience so far is that is a factor consider it and

01:34:55 ◼   ► Test it and look into it and also consider that it may change over time

01:35:00 ◼   ► the other thing is

01:35:03 ◼   ► You know getting to back to the physical controls

01:35:05 ◼   ► The reason probably the main reason I got this Microsoft precision mouse is because this scroll wheel is fantastic

01:35:12 ◼   ► Now I know squirrels are passé and everyone wants to touch service yada yada. I'm not into touch service on a wheel

01:35:16 ◼   ► This is a metal wheel

01:35:19 ◼   ► that feels

01:35:21 ◼   ► Like an expensive knob in a car. It's got two modes

01:35:24 ◼   ► It's got the ratcheting mode and the free spinning mode the free spinning mode. It feels like it's on a ball bearing

01:35:28 ◼   ► Smooth as glass right solid smooth sort of a textured metal wheel

01:35:34 ◼   ► the button that switches modes

01:35:37 ◼   ► has this satisfying electro mechanical kathunk

01:35:41 ◼   ► I don't know if I can get it on the microphone here. Let's see

01:35:43 ◼   ► You're probably not gonna be able to hear that it's probably anyway

01:35:48 ◼   ► We heard it a satisfying funk where you can feel like something electrically activating and moving into place and moving back

01:35:56 ◼   ► And that and when it goes into ratchet mode

01:35:59 ◼   ► The ratcheting mode feels like an expensive car knob with like the little where you can feel like the little I forget what they're called

01:36:06 ◼   ► The little notches detents, I believe yeah, there you go

01:36:10 ◼   ► Um and but it's not noisy so here let me I'm gonna scroll the scroll wheel like this is this is like literally

01:36:16 ◼   ► You know my fingers practically touching my microphone

01:36:18 ◼   ► Right you should hear nothing nope yeah, nothing total total sight which is amazing

01:36:25 ◼   ► You know my old mouse you could hear it when it from the I'd scroll it and you could hear it in the next room

01:36:28 ◼   ► But you can still feel the little the little notches, right?

01:36:32 ◼   ► It's not the free wheeling scroll wheel thingy like the logic thing

01:36:39 ◼   ► well, I'll get to in a second where it's like

01:36:41 ◼   ► Spins and you can just give it a spin and like a roulette wheel just spin and spin and spin

01:36:45 ◼   ► And then you stop it with your finger the Microsoft mouse does not do that it has smooth and ratcheted, but in smooth mode

01:36:50 ◼   ► It's totally smooth. There is nothing impeding the movement, but it does not freewheel spin

01:36:56 ◼   ► Like it's damped right so if you flick it. It'll as soon as your finger leaves the wheel it will stop moving right

01:37:03 ◼   ► So that's the Microsoft mouse

01:37:06 ◼   ► shape-wise it has the

01:37:08 ◼   ► The little thumb rest flange, but it has very small thumb rest flange

01:37:12 ◼   ► You know I'm talking about like I'm a bottom of the mouse is the thing that sticks out of the side for your thumb to go

01:37:16 ◼   ► On not really a fan of that thing I'd just as soon do without it

01:37:19 ◼   ► But I bought the Microsoft one cuz I'm like look if I'm gonna have a thumb thing let's get a really tiny thumb thing

01:37:23 ◼   ► I've mostly gotten used to it. It still bothers me a little bit, but not too much

01:37:28 ◼   ► It's got this mouse has flat sides the buttons are really solid these side buttons

01:37:33 ◼   ► Which I mostly hate him will never use are very thin and out of the way

01:37:36 ◼   ► And they don't touch any part of my hand when I'm using the mouse which is nice

01:37:39 ◼   ► I do kind of appreciate having them there

01:37:42 ◼   ► I can imagine using that has three side buttons instead of just two which is nice and the mouse wheel clicks in for the third

01:37:47 ◼   ► button

01:37:49 ◼   ► The other thing that I learned from buying all these mice

01:37:53 ◼   ► And I learned with the Microsoft mouse first is that Bluetooth Bluetooth is garbage

01:37:58 ◼   ► What what how is it actually noticeable

01:38:05 ◼   ► Some maybe it's my environment. Maybe it's because my tower computer has bad antennas in as far away

01:38:10 ◼   ► but the Bluetooth signal from this Microsoft mouse to my computer is

01:38:15 ◼   ► Not good enough to get smooth mouse moving all the time

01:38:20 ◼   ► And it's not some Catalina thing where it's freaking out like it's it's fine most people wouldn't notice

01:38:25 ◼   ► But I can totally notice that the tracking is not great occasionally you get a little hitch. I

01:38:30 ◼   ► Don't know what the problem is

01:38:33 ◼   ► But I think it's Bluetooth or maybe it's this mouse because I tried the mouse on my wife's computer, too

01:38:38 ◼   ► Which presumably the Bluetooth is closer there?

01:38:40 ◼   ► It's like a 5k iMac and then we're right in front of it with the mouse, and it was mostly fine

01:38:44 ◼   ► But it had a couple of hiccups. She rejected it the first time it added any kind of tracking hiccup

01:38:50 ◼   ► She's like get this thing off my computer, and I don't blame her like when you move the mouse

01:38:54 ◼   ► It should move the cursor in a direct one-to-one connection

01:38:57 ◼   ► There should be no hitches especially if your computer is idle, and she's not on Catalina, right?

01:39:03 ◼   ► And so and she has had other Bluetooth peripherals, but you know that aren't pointing devices like Bluetooth keyboards and stuff like

01:39:08 ◼   ► yeah, the only reason I'm

01:39:12 ◼   ► Rejecting out of hand because I'm coming from a world with wired mice which never have this problem at all right and also

01:39:19 ◼   ► Because of Logitech so the Microsoft mouse I'll get the logic stuff in a second, but the Microsoft mouse in Bluetooth mode

01:39:26 ◼   ► unacceptable

01:39:29 ◼   ► Luckily the Microsoft mouse comes with a very very long thin

01:39:34 ◼   ► USB cable that you can connect to the front of it, and it becomes a wired mouse and in wired mode no problems

01:39:41 ◼   ► No hitches. No nothing on the other hand now. You have a wire attached. It's an interesting

01:39:45 ◼   ► You know the fact that you can just plug and unplug it at the mouse at the point of the mouse and such a thin

01:39:51 ◼   ► long cable is kind of nice because

01:39:53 ◼   ► When I have my work laptop here, and I'm working, but I have my computer sort of behind it

01:39:57 ◼   ► I can use the mouse with both I use it a wired mode with my Mac

01:40:00 ◼   ► And then when I unplug it it's paired with the laptop. You know I mean

01:40:03 ◼   ► On the same keyboard tray again more Logitech stuff on that in a moment, but I like that arrangement so

01:40:10 ◼   ► For a while the Microsoft mouse was my winner using it in wired mode because the ergonomics were right

01:40:18 ◼   ► I love the scroll wheel the buttons were great the shape was pretty good the thumb flange wasn't too low

01:40:22 ◼   ► I was breaking in the little pads in the bottom. I didn't have to deal with Bluetooth because it was plugged in

01:40:26 ◼   ► Logitech

01:40:28 ◼   ► Everyone knows Logitech has their own thing going on

01:40:31 ◼   ► with

01:40:34 ◼   ► You know before you before Bluetooth. They had their own little wireless

01:40:37 ◼   ► RF dongle you'd stick it into a USB port and

01:40:41 ◼   ► The mouse would communicate with it and as far as the computer was concerned

01:40:45 ◼   ► It's like there was a USB mouse connected to it, but really there was no wire there. You know it's it's like USB

01:40:50 ◼   ► But there's no cat

01:40:53 ◼   ► You two won't get that I that's like that's like a literary reference literary historical

01:40:58 ◼   ► It's a highbrow reference much higher brow like 80s movies. Oh my goodness our listeners will get it you can look it up after anyway

01:41:04 ◼   ► My wife has been using a wireless logic mouse with her computers since the 2011

01:41:13 ◼   ► MacBook Air I

01:41:15 ◼   ► Haven't you know I've been using wired peripherals, but I've seen people using at work

01:41:19 ◼   ► and

01:41:22 ◼   ► Let me tell you

01:41:24 ◼   ► Logitech again disclaimer they sent me a bunch of free stuff

01:41:27 ◼   ► So take this with the grain of salt if you want

01:41:30 ◼   ► But this is my opinion before they send me a bunch of free stuff as well that stupid little RF dongle is

01:41:35 ◼   ► Rock solid yeah, it always has been that's like that's like one of the great reasons to use Logitech stuff

01:41:43 ◼   ► is that those little RF dongles are way better than Bluetooth and

01:41:48 ◼   ► Usually they they also usually lead to much longer battery life in the in the mat in the mice

01:41:53 ◼   ► And it's just like everything about them is better. Yeah, it is fantastic you would think isn't this janky isn't this like a non

01:42:00 ◼   ► Apple non elegant solution shouldn't everything just be Bluetooth. It's built into your computer the answer is no that Logitech RF thing is

01:42:07 ◼   ► Amazing now a setting aside the USB 3.0 interference crap which is not Logitech's fault. It's probably Intel's fault right setting that aside

01:42:17 ◼   ► That stupid little dongle which now is microscopic

01:42:20 ◼   ► It just it is you know if you a be test me with a wired connection versus that RF thing

01:42:27 ◼   ► I'm not sure I could tell the difference it does not stutter

01:42:29 ◼   ► It does not switch the battery lasts for like seven years in the in your mouse. It is unbelievable

01:42:34 ◼   ► So and in general I tend to like Logitech mice

01:42:39 ◼   ► I mean again. I've been using that that older logic mice mouse for ten years right, so I'm pretty disposed like Logitech

01:42:45 ◼   ► The tracking was just it was just unbelievable right this the marathon doesn't have a USB connection

01:42:51 ◼   ► so I have to use the wireless one, but like

01:42:53 ◼   ► You know I was like ball

01:42:56 ◼   ► Logitech has this down. They've have cornered this market until Bluetooth can match it

01:43:01 ◼   ► I should just not even consider Bluetooth mice the marathon mouse

01:43:04 ◼   ► specifically the mouse wheel

01:43:07 ◼   ► Not as nice as the as the Microsoft one

01:43:09 ◼   ► It's it's a one that decides the scrolling sideways by tilting the mouse you remember that mechanism

01:43:14 ◼   ► Mm-hmm it's not

01:43:16 ◼   ► It has a ratcheting mode and it has a smooth mode the smooth mode is very smooth the ratcheting mode is ratcheting

01:43:22 ◼   ► But it's also it's also a rattle here. It's more fully listen to this

01:43:25 ◼   ► When you shake your mouse you shouldn't hear anything you shake this mouse you hear something

01:43:29 ◼   ► It's because there's a lot of play and the mouse wheel the buttons are okay

01:43:33 ◼   ► The shape is pretty good

01:43:35 ◼   ► But it's a little got a little bit of an overhang where your thumb goes instead of having straight sides like the Microsoft one

01:43:39 ◼   ► It's got two side buttons instead of three

01:43:43 ◼   ► The feet and the sort of the scrolling action or the I don't know what you call the the mousing action is better than having the

01:43:50 ◼   ► Perimeter, but it is also breaking in I think these pads are not even teflon

01:43:54 ◼   ► They're like weirdly textured so I think they're intentionally slowing it down a little bit

01:43:57 ◼   ► And I could do with it being a little bit more slick

01:43:59 ◼   ► But in the competition between these two mice which the first two that I bought the Microsoft one was winning, but I was using it wired

01:44:06 ◼   ► finally

01:44:08 ◼   ► The logic sent the MX master 3 which I know as the mouse that destroyed my carly's hands through RSI

01:44:14 ◼   ► Reputation that I what do you know about this mouse my curly had one in it hurt his hand

01:44:19 ◼   ► That's what I know about this mouse, and you know I know that it's been around for a while lots of people have it

01:44:24 ◼   ► You know and so on and so forth. It's there is their fancy mouse this has the thumb shelf to end all thumb shelves

01:44:30 ◼   ► I don't know what they are expecting you to put on there. I don't know how big people's thumbs are I I knew

01:44:35 ◼   ► There's a button in the thumb shelf a couple of the logic of mice have like it's button down there

01:44:39 ◼   ► I don't need a button in the thumb shelf this thumb shelf is so big I could fit like three fingers on it

01:44:43 ◼   ► I don't like I was intentionally avoiding this mouse and not getting it because I'm like all right

01:44:48 ◼   ► I can handle a thumb shelf, but not that thumb shelf right as

01:44:51 ◼   ► It turns out the gigantic thumb self is a problem, but it's not it was not the the first problem

01:44:58 ◼   ► I noticed the first one I noticed is that the thumb shelf and the whole wraparound thing of this mouse is

01:45:03 ◼   ► Sort of textured with like a scallops kind of corduroy type texture

01:45:07 ◼   ► That I do not find particularly pleasing. Can you only pet it in one direction?

01:45:11 ◼   ► I mean it is kind of unidirectional. I don't know like they're contour lines like on the bottom of a blue whale

01:45:20 ◼   ► Only on a mouse. I would prefer it if it was smooth

01:45:24 ◼   ► I love the idea that you think people will have seen a blue whale

01:45:28 ◼   ► Everyone knows what the underside of a blue whale looks like though when you see it in the encyclopedia with the big like

01:45:33 ◼   ► Vertical like corduroy stripes right I would guess that listeners of this show might actually be more likely to know what an MX master looks

01:45:40 ◼   ► Like then the underside of a certain type of whale

01:45:42 ◼   ► Some people know what animals look like Marco

01:45:45 ◼   ► Anyway the MX master is a very high mouse it is the highest one it is also the one that rotates your hand most

01:45:54 ◼   ► Most towards the hand shape shake grip. It's not a vertical mouse like a lot of people make vertical mice that

01:45:59 ◼   ► You put your hand on it the same in the same position as you would perform a handshake like vertically that is better

01:46:05 ◼   ► Ergonomically than turning your wrists inward. That's why keyboards are tilted and that's why you know split keyboards yada yada right so

01:46:11 ◼   ► Ergonomically I'm thinking this is probably better for hand position than these other mice

01:46:15 ◼   ► I do understand why Mike might have had RSI issues because the MX master has like

01:46:21 ◼   ► It's got a scroll wheel, but it also has a horizontal scroll wheel by your thumb

01:46:26 ◼   ► And it has two buttons by your thumb, and then it's got the main two buttons

01:46:29 ◼   ► And then it's got the gesture button down underneath your thumb

01:46:32 ◼   ► It's got a lot of controls and if you try to work all the controls

01:46:35 ◼   ► It's a little bit you have to be a little bit of a contortionist

01:46:37 ◼   ► You can mostly ignore the other controls if you don't want them because it's so high like the wheels up above your hand

01:46:45 ◼   ► Anyway the the scrolling action on this

01:46:51 ◼   ► Better than the cheaper logitech mice in terms of the smoothness of the pads moving across them not as smooth as my old mouse

01:46:56 ◼   ► But definitely smoother than the Microsoft mouse again

01:46:59 ◼   ► I'm talking about physically scraping across the thing the scroll wheel in this one

01:47:02 ◼   ► This is logitech's fancy scroll wheel it is metal. It is solid it has the same sort of silent ratcheting

01:47:08 ◼   ► Feel as the Microsoft one. Maybe a little bit less stiff

01:47:14 ◼   ► I still think Microsoft has the best scroll wheel on the market right now that I've tried

01:47:19 ◼   ► But this one has the thing where if you spin it real fast

01:47:22 ◼   ► They will auto switch from ratcheting mode to free spinning and this has the momentum

01:47:26 ◼   ► Where it will freely spin and keep spinning till you stop it in my experimentation because the other logic mouse also has that mode I

01:47:34 ◼   ► Found that I don't really like the free spinning mode

01:47:37 ◼   ► Or you just give it a spin and stop it when you hit where you want

01:47:40 ◼   ► That's not the way I like to work

01:47:42 ◼   ► I try to get used to it over the course of the whole weeks, and I couldn't but I am still playing with the

01:47:47 ◼   ► Logitech one where it's mostly ratcheting, but you don't have to switch modes itself little auto switch the modes for you

01:47:52 ◼   ► I'm using it wireless. I'm using it with the the little wireless dongle in recent decades

01:47:58 ◼   ► I don't know how long ago this happened probably five years ago or whatever

01:48:00 ◼   ► Logitech had changed their little RF dongle to be what they call a unifying receiver

01:48:06 ◼   ► Well, you just need one of those little turdied on goals, and you use it with any number

01:48:10 ◼   ► I don't know. There's probably a limit, but any number of logic peripherals and

01:48:13 ◼   ► this is good because

01:48:16 ◼   ► If you have like you know multiple mice and keyboards or whatever you could pair them all with that dongle

01:48:21 ◼   ► You don't need five USB ports right?

01:48:23 ◼   ► And they come with some software that to manage that which I actually installed

01:48:27 ◼   ► But you're like oh my god you bought hardware

01:48:29 ◼   ► And you installed installed drivers for it don't do that like if it works without the drivers by all means do not install any third-party stuff

01:48:35 ◼   ► And I know I hear where you're coming from there. That's usually my ethos, but well first of all I

01:48:42 ◼   ► Disobeyed that by buying steer mouse for the first two mice to mess with the tracking

01:48:47 ◼   ► Adjustments, I don't know if you remember the software. It's a it's like a USB mouse

01:48:52 ◼   ► Setting Swiss Army knife or you have

01:48:56 ◼   ► You can assign all the buttons on basically any mouse you can control the cursor by

01:49:01 ◼   ► adjusting the acceleration to like four decimal points and

01:49:05 ◼   ► sensitivity and and there's like window snapping and you know you can switch through different settings or different mice and save them and you

01:49:10 ◼   ► Could let the system control the mouse or let that you know it's very flexible be software

01:49:14 ◼   ► I highly recommend steer mouse despite the fact that a little mouse icon is

01:49:17 ◼   ► Herendis the ugly and they should have someone draw a new one for them because is

01:49:20 ◼   ► Uglier than all the mice that are on my desk. I don't it looks like

01:49:23 ◼   ► It looks like a tampon

01:49:28 ◼   ► Let's just say it looks like a plastic applicator tampon, please steer mouse change your change your icon to something else

01:49:33 ◼   ► So I already installed that and I found it extremely valuable for trying to adjust the tracking to make them all feel

01:49:40 ◼   ► Good like to make them all feel like the Apple Mouse basically in terms of acceleration curves and everything and surprisingly

01:49:46 ◼   ► They don't out of the box if you just use them without any drivers

01:49:49 ◼   ► But for the MX master, I installed the crazy logitech thing. That is a very wide tampon

01:49:55 ◼   ► Yeah, you know some people

01:49:58 ◼   ► Yeah

01:50:00 ◼   ► Yeah, the the logitech software is called logitech options. It has a terribly ugly icon, but the interface is actually pretty nice

01:50:07 ◼   ► I put a screenshot of it into our slack thing it shows you nice photos of the devices that are hooked up to your computer

01:50:12 ◼   ► And you click through to them and it lets you customize the buttons and lets you you know change the the scrolling stuff

01:50:18 ◼   ► You can change the sensitivity at which the wheel switches from ratcheting to free wheeling. There's a whole bunch of other options you have

01:50:23 ◼   ► Different things for scrolling and pointer speed and different settings for the you know like everything you would imagine

01:50:28 ◼   ► As far as I can tell it has not destroyed my computer the app seems to be well behaved and the tracking on this mouse

01:50:36 ◼   ► Again, I I can definitely say with his MX master. I could not tell the difference between this and a USB connected mouse

01:50:42 ◼   ► There's no way I could tell it is buttery smooth

01:50:45 ◼   ► Perfect precision in control no matter how fast them over the thing it is and it's amazing

01:50:50 ◼   ► Shape wise I thought it was gonna hate this thing because of the giant thumb shelf and cuz of how high it is

01:50:55 ◼   ► But in practice, I'm kind of getting used to it

01:50:58 ◼   ► Here is the one big downside and this is has a little bit to do with my setup here the gigantic thumb shelf

01:51:04 ◼   ► There is a little pad again the bottom of the mouse one of the slippery pads is under the thumb shelf at the edge

01:51:10 ◼   ► Because my mouse pad is not quite big enough

01:51:13 ◼   ► occasionally I will mouse to the left edge of my mouse pad when I'm traversing my gigantic monitor and

01:51:19 ◼   ► The mouse as far as I'm concerned has not left the edge of the mouse pad right because my thumb is still

01:51:26 ◼   ► Well within the perimeter of the mouse pad

01:51:29 ◼   ► but the stupid shelf six out so far that the shelf has left the edge of the mouse pad and

01:51:34 ◼   ► Now has fallen down like a millimeter and when I try to move it back

01:51:39 ◼   ► The little pad thing on the thumb shelf catches on the edge of the mouse pad, which is terrible

01:51:44 ◼   ► Which is another reason that a this thumb shelf shouldn't be as big but B

01:51:47 ◼   ► I need a bigger mouse pad so that I can make the mouse pad extend all the way so it hits the edge of my

01:51:52 ◼   ► keyboard and that way I

01:51:55 ◼   ► Can never be able to get the thumb shelf off the edge because before that happens the thumb shelf will hit my keyboard

01:52:00 ◼   ► So yeah in this competition right now

01:52:05 ◼   ► I'm using the MX master just because it is the newest one and I'm gonna give it a fair shake of using it for you

01:52:11 ◼   ► Know a week or so to see

01:52:13 ◼   ► My previous champion champion was the Microsoft mouse again

01:52:16 ◼   ► If you don't know

01:52:18 ◼   ► What a good knob on a toaster feels like or a good knob on a car feels like or a good scroll wheel feel like go

01:52:24 ◼   ► To a Microsoft store and feel the scroll wheel on the Microsoft precision mouse

01:52:28 ◼   ► Whoever made this scroll wheel deserves a raise as for the Windows logo

01:52:32 ◼   ► It's the new Windows logo

01:52:34 ◼   ► Which everybody knows but if you don't think about the new Windows logo is literally a square

01:52:38 ◼   ► With a vertical line and horizontal line going through the center of it. That's the logo

01:52:42 ◼   ► It is such a jerk

01:52:44 ◼   ► It is so generic that is very easy for me to look at this and absolutely not recognize that as a Windows logo

01:52:51 ◼   ► It's also gray on a black mouse, right? Oh, but you know, you know, well, I don't here's I want to say

01:52:56 ◼   ► This is a good peripheral. This is a good mouse

01:52:59 ◼   ► We talked about this or Microsoft has made and continues to make good peripherals

01:53:03 ◼   ► I there is you know, this mouse is better than Apple's mouse

01:53:07 ◼   ► Full stop for unless you like very low mice

01:53:10 ◼   ► So if you're like very low mice this now sucks because it's it's higher than the Apple Mouse, right?

01:53:14 ◼   ► But it's it's just plain better. It is ergonomically better and it's easier to hold it has more affordances

01:53:19 ◼   ► It the controls on it like the click feels higher quality than Apple's click on its giant mouse

01:53:25 ◼   ► It it's a good product. Like I don't you know, I

01:53:29 ◼   ► Microsoft makes a good product. They deserve to have their logo on this mouse

01:53:33 ◼   ► The MX master is a bit of an abomination. It has a bunch of crap sticking out of it that I'm never gonna use

01:53:38 ◼   ► But the scrolling on it is great. And the final thing is

01:53:41 ◼   ► Logitech has as part of this weird software that I installed that I hope I'm not gonna regret

01:53:47 ◼   ► They have a thing where

01:53:49 ◼   ► You can use multiple computers with the same set of peripherals and

01:53:54 ◼   ► Transparently switch between them so you can bring the mouse to one edge of your screen

01:53:59 ◼   ► The mouse cursor and it will leap on to another computer screen

01:54:04 ◼   ► No, KVM switching. No anything like literally the same mouse on two computers

01:54:09 ◼   ► Which you would think that's great because sometimes you've got your work laptop and your home thing

01:54:13 ◼   ► You're trying to do both at once and you don't have two mice and I don't use the trackpad

01:54:18 ◼   ► But it does that magic using networking and I think when my laptop's on the VPN that whole system won't work

01:54:23 ◼   ► So I'm probably not gonna bother trying with it the keyboard they sent

01:54:26 ◼   ► This is gonna probably drive marker up a wall, but this is definitely a thing

01:54:31 ◼   ► There's too much key travel

01:54:34 ◼   ► There's too much key travel, I mean, you know, I've been using the Apple unknown keep

01:54:41 ◼   ► I use the Apple extended to for years then I had our si issues and I found that the the Apple

01:54:45 ◼   ► USB keyboards with the you know, the very

01:54:49 ◼   ► Short light travel like the original Apple aluminum extended keyboard. I found that better for my RSI

01:54:55 ◼   ► And since then I've been a big proponent of these Apple monitors

01:54:57 ◼   ► They don't take a lot of pressure or distance to press the keys because that's better for my RSI

01:55:02 ◼   ► With the Apple extended - I was you know, hitting the keys too hard and it really exacerbated things, right?

01:55:07 ◼   ► I'm now on the keyboard that came with my Mac Pro, which is the magic key switches, which I love

01:55:13 ◼   ► I like these key switches. These are my favorite desktop key switches I've ever used in my post RSI era. I

01:55:19 ◼   ► Tried the Logitech keyboard and those keys have so much travel. I felt like I was going on a journey every time

01:55:26 ◼   ► They don't have as much travel as the Apple extended - like I'm not saying it's like that but compared to the magic key

01:55:32 ◼   ► Like I just thought I was putting in so much work

01:55:35 ◼   ► I don't I don't have the kind of time to wait for these keys to go down and the key caps are oddly shaped

01:55:40 ◼   ► Other than that the keyboard is and also the keyboard has like a kickstand on the back where it's like cranked up and that's exactly

01:55:45 ◼   ► The wrong thing for a keyboard to do it should be level or tilted away from you even but it weighs a ton

01:55:50 ◼   ► It is made of metal

01:55:50 ◼   ► But most importantly for the multi-computer scenario

01:55:52 ◼   ► That keyboard has three dedicated buttons where you can hit those buttons and it will cycle through three different computers again using this Logitech like

01:56:00 ◼   ► You know software and these unified receivers or whatever

01:56:03 ◼   ► So if you go all Logitech and if you do not have one of your computers on a VPN

01:56:08 ◼   ► You can use a single keyboard and a single mouse to interact with

01:56:11 ◼   ► Three of them at the same time by pressing buttons on the keyboard to switch what the input is and by just moving the mouse

01:56:17 ◼   ► Between the screens which is not a thing that I'm particularly interested in but I'm glad that feature exists and I have to say so far

01:56:24 ◼   ► Using their software that they installed that hopefully is not destroying my computer

01:56:28 ◼   ► It's fairly straightforward to use and other than the ugly icon. It seems

01:56:34 ◼   ► Kind of nice. I don't know. I mean, maybe maybe next we'll compensate logic software is destroyed my computer, but

01:56:39 ◼   ► So far, I think it's actually pretty nice and then finally finally the camera the you know

01:56:47 ◼   ► Cuz my six umpteen bajillion dollar

01:56:50 ◼   ► Prodisplay XDR does not come with the camera of any kind but Logitech will sell you one for

01:56:56 ◼   ► What is like 200 bucks or something? It's expensive. Anyway, it's a quote-unquote webcam. I think it's 4k

01:57:03 ◼   ► I had a few curiosities about this one

01:57:06 ◼   ► How do you have to connect it to your computer so that it works?

01:57:09 ◼   ► And to how is the interface between like how does it physically connect?

01:57:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I know they said it's like magnetic or whatever. But how does that work? Like is it just you know

01:57:21 ◼   ► Because the monitor case I'm assuming is aluminum which is not particularly magnetic. How does it actually connect?

01:57:28 ◼   ► Well, so the physical connection as far as I can tell and I really don't want anyone to tell me

01:57:34 ◼   ► Otherwise because then I'll have to take out a tape measure

01:57:36 ◼   ► It's like on the smart cover thing on iPads

01:57:40 ◼   ► We're like it kind of like there's magnets in the device and also magnets in the cover and they line up with each other

01:57:45 ◼   ► So it's kind of hard to get a smart cover on

01:57:47 ◼   ► The wrong way like it just snaps in and you don't have to worry like oh is it is it off is it shifted?

01:57:52 ◼   ► It's oh it just it goes into position. Right? So you bring this

01:57:57 ◼   ► camera near the top of this monitor and it just chunk magnetizes right to a

01:58:03 ◼   ► Spot that I assume is dead center in the monitor

01:58:06 ◼   ► Which I find extremely pleasing and please don't tell me if it's not true

01:58:10 ◼   ► I because I think that's the only place that goes on

01:58:12 ◼   ► I don't think you can put it on a left or on the right. I think it only magnetized in the middle

01:58:16 ◼   ► Second thing is connecting with the cable. It's USB C. There's a little USB C port in the back of the camera and

01:58:23 ◼   ► You could connect that all sorts of places. I could run a cable from the camera to the back of my computer to the top

01:58:28 ◼   ► of my computer but also

01:58:30 ◼   ► To the USB C ports that are on the back of my monitor. Ah, but with the base video card

01:58:35 ◼   ► the

01:58:37 ◼   ► radion

01:58:38 ◼   ► 580 X

01:58:39 ◼   ► those USB ports are only USB 2.0 because all the high-speed lanes in the connection between the computer and the monitor being taken up by the

01:58:46 ◼   ► Non display stream compressed video. So all I've got left is USB 2.0. Is that sufficient for 4k video?

01:58:54 ◼   ► The camera comes with a tiny little cable

01:58:57 ◼   ► That connects directly from the camera and is just long enough to reach any one of the three USB C ports

01:59:04 ◼   ► Which I super appreciate because cable management is an issue and this is a tiny beautiful purpose-built cable

01:59:10 ◼   ► One is a right angle

01:59:13 ◼   ► The connector is a right angle for going into the back of the monitor and the other one goes in or maybe I'm reversed

01:59:17 ◼   ► Anyway, it's it's like a perfectly sized cable

01:59:20 ◼   ► Plugged it into the back of the monitor. I think it's working. I open FaceTime. I saw myself

01:59:24 ◼   ► I think I was in 4k is really hard for me to tell

01:59:28 ◼   ► The camera tilts which is nice

01:59:31 ◼   ► The monitor is so big that I have to tilt the camera down even though I like I ergonomically adjusted it

01:59:37 ◼   ► So that's top of monitor is directly aligned with my eye line, right? That's where I have lined up

01:59:41 ◼   ► Even doing that and maybe I'm just slouching all the time

01:59:44 ◼   ► I don't know but I had to aim the camera down to get like a view of myself

01:59:48 ◼   ► And I like the view of the room behind me. So it's aimed down a little bit the only way

01:59:53 ◼   ► The whole physical setup could be better one if the camera was smaller because obviously it's a little comically large for what it's doing

02:00:00 ◼   ► I don't know what the hell is inside that thing, but it's like come on you can build

02:00:04 ◼   ► Granted a crappier camera, but a so much smaller one in the 5k

02:00:09 ◼   ► I'm act so much so that you don't even see that it's there now. I have this thing sitting on top of my monitor

02:00:13 ◼   ► That's a little bit overwhelming and to

02:00:17 ◼   ► I everyone should see this one coming

02:00:19 ◼   ► I would like it better if the tiny little purpose-built cable that came to connect this camera to the back of my monitor was

02:00:26 ◼   ► Braided in black. Yep, you got it braided in black make everything braid it

02:00:32 ◼   ► But anyway, I will accept this merely black but not braided cable because it is the perfect length. Oh my word. So

02:00:38 ◼   ► And then so the the gaming mouse I'm interested in because of the high dpi and because the shape of it is the closest to my

02:00:44 ◼   ► Old mouse, but I haven't tried that yet

02:00:46 ◼   ► So I haven't sitting here with this computer with multiple mice

02:00:51 ◼   ► I think I've had at least three mice sitting on this desk all connected to the computer at the same time for

02:00:55 ◼   ► You know multiple weeks now

02:00:58 ◼   ► I'm not sure when I'm ever going to pick a winner and retire one

02:01:02 ◼   ► But right now it feels like the Microsoft mouse is probably still in the lead

02:01:06 ◼   ► But the MX master had a few days in it and it's really nice

02:01:09 ◼   ► so the lesson here is that if you haven't looked at the world of

02:01:15 ◼   ► third-party mice

02:01:16 ◼   ► Look at it because there's some good stuff out there

02:01:18 ◼   ► And you may be surprised to find something that you know

02:01:23 ◼   ► Your react both of your reactions looking at the beating of these things. They are

02:01:26 ◼   ► only looking they're not

02:01:29 ◼   ► they're not like sleek or

02:01:32 ◼   ► Beautiful, but some of them really are good

02:01:35 ◼   ► Knob feel is a thing mouse feels a thing and in particular

02:01:40 ◼   ► Non Bluetooth connections of your mice is also a thing do not turn your nose up at it because it's old tech

02:01:46 ◼   ► It's old tech that works. I

02:01:48 ◼   ► Will also add very briefly here you mentioned during your keyboard segment that it would probably drive me crazy that you were saying you wanted

02:01:55 ◼   ► a keyboard with less travel I

02:01:57 ◼   ► Actually just by coincidence happened to between last week and this week

02:02:02 ◼   ► Change my keyboard temporarily

02:02:05 ◼   ► I usually use the Microsoft sculpt ergonomic keyboard

02:02:10 ◼   ► Not the surface ergonomic the sculpt ergonomic that is a it is a split black keyboard with a gap in the middle and elevated on the front

02:02:17 ◼   ► So it's by far my favorite ergonomic keyboard and I've been using it for a number of years now

02:02:22 ◼   ► However, there is one fatal flaw with the Microsoft sculpt ergonomic keyboard

02:02:27 ◼   ► After a while, it just kind of flakes out then you got to replace it

02:02:31 ◼   ► like there's no there's no coming back from it like after a while like keystrokes will start like

02:02:36 ◼   ► Queuing up or getting missed or something and you can change the batteries and you can move the receiver around and it just never fixes

02:02:41 ◼   ► Itself, you just have to replace it. Fortunately. They're only about 60 bucks mine last about two years

02:02:47 ◼   ► So I wore out the current one. I was using went to the closet had to get the next one

02:02:51 ◼   ► But I thought well now that I'm replacing it

02:02:53 ◼   ► I've gone through this, you know

02:02:55 ◼   ► This kind of self-improvement kick for the last couple of years and one of the things that mentioned on the show is I tried to eliminate

02:03:02 ◼   ► Myself from like being able to from having to say like oh, I don't like an entire class of food

02:03:07 ◼   ► so like now I can eat seafood for instance that I used to I used to say like I don't like seafood and that would

02:03:11 ◼   ► Make it hard to go to certain types of restaurants and I hated that limitation

02:03:15 ◼   ► so I I've slowly worked to like eliminate my limitations as much as possible and

02:03:20 ◼   ► One of the things I thought was now that I'm in better shape than I've ever been in

02:03:25 ◼   ► Yeah, you know I have like regular exercise my my arms and wrists are in better condition than they've been in

02:03:31 ◼   ► Maybe I don't need a split ergonomic keyboard anymore

02:03:34 ◼   ► I would love to be able to just comfortably use any

02:03:36 ◼   ► keyboard again and be able to join this like

02:03:39 ◼   ► you know mechanical keyboard revolution everyone's going through and everything and I happen to have in my closet for years a

02:03:44 ◼   ► Filco magistux to ten keyless mechanical keyboard with the cherry MX Brown switches

02:03:49 ◼   ► I bought it years ago thinking maybe I would try it then tried it for about a week

02:03:54 ◼   ► Started getting sore and put it in the closet

02:03:58 ◼   ► so I thought now that I'm between keyboards while I replace my sculpt, let me try that again and

02:04:04 ◼   ► Sure enough the you know, the sculpt has scissor style keys, you know laptop kind of travel scissor style keys

02:04:11 ◼   ► The Filco of course has like the big mechanical cherry MX key

02:04:15 ◼   ► So like, you know big full travel it felt weird to me to go back is like I've been using scissor keys

02:04:21 ◼   ► You know on my desktop and my laptop full-time

02:04:26 ◼   ► For over a decade and so it's been a very long time since I've used like full big

02:04:32 ◼   ► kachunk style keys and

02:04:35 ◼   ► It really did feel weird to me and I ended up putting it back not because of the travel

02:04:39 ◼   ► Although it I didn't give it enough time to get used to it

02:04:42 ◼   ► I gave it less than a day but because I kept hitting

02:04:45 ◼   ► the wrong modifiers and everything because I realized that the sculpt has kind of ruined me for placement of

02:04:53 ◼   ► What it is labeled as the alt key but what functionally behaves as the command key the key next to the spacebar that modifies

02:05:00 ◼   ► Here your commands

02:05:02 ◼   ► it lines up its alt key almost below the E and

02:05:07 ◼   ► most keyboards align that key below the W or

02:05:11 ◼   ► bridging between the W and the E and

02:05:14 ◼   ► So I realize I'm actually kind of like my muscle memory of my left hand hitting

02:05:20 ◼   ► Command slash alt and all of the keys on that side like W E, you know for window closing stuff like that

02:05:26 ◼   ► It was all off. I kept like accidentally quitting my apps

02:05:29 ◼   ► I was hitting Q instead of W and everything it was it was crazy

02:05:31 ◼   ► And so I had to switch back just because like that was too much of an adjustment for me like that and the key travel

02:05:37 ◼   ► It just felt really weird to me. So I'm kind of ruined now and like now I kind of feel like

02:05:42 ◼   ► Scissor keys are my full travel keyboard and I mean again really they have been for over a decade

02:05:49 ◼   ► If I'm honest with myself, but I wonder if that will ever transition further

02:05:54 ◼   ► Like I wonder if I will slowly get used to the lower and lower travel scissor key

02:05:59 ◼   ► Switches that Apple's moving towards over the years and maybe eventually I won't care and I'll be like, yeah bring me the butterfly

02:06:04 ◼   ► God, I hope not

02:06:07 ◼   ► You'll be ready to be ready to type on glass. Yeah, right exactly

02:06:10 ◼   ► Like it like is this like is there a a lower limit to like how what we will get used to

02:06:15 ◼   ► Honestly, I think the butterfly keyboard might have shown like oh, yeah. Okay. There is such something is too far

02:06:19 ◼   ► I think Apple had a patent on a negative travel keyboard where the buttons actually bulge out at you. Yeah, they hit you

02:06:24 ◼   ► They did have a thing where it's like the screen bulges so you could feel where the keys are

02:06:29 ◼   ► Which is basically negative travel if they don't go in like that reaches out to touch you

02:06:33 ◼   ► Yeah, mechanical keyboards do feel like I used you know, the Apple extended to I used from

02:06:40 ◼   ► You know the the release of the sc30 all the way up until I think my blue and white g3

02:06:47 ◼   ► Just that same keyboard. I've extended to and then I switched to USB full travel keyboards and then I switched to the

02:06:53 ◼   ► Lower travel ones. But yeah, it does feel weird to go back

02:06:56 ◼   ► It feels like I said, it feels like you're going on quite a journey to get each key. Press. It's like

02:07:00 ◼   ► Feels like you're using your whole arm. It's like really and you know, again technology marches on I I

02:07:07 ◼   ► still vastly prefer this

02:07:10 ◼   ► Whatever key switches are in this magic keyboard that came with my mac probably prefer that to the butterfly switches

02:07:14 ◼   ► and by the way, I just got my

02:07:16 ◼   ► 2017 MacBook Pro back from repair at work and you know

02:07:21 ◼   ► I'm assuming they did a total keyboard replacement because I think that's the only way you can repair these things

02:07:26 ◼   ► But my spacebar is back

02:07:28 ◼   ► It they didn't replace it with the membrane one as far as I can tell I think you're not even able to replace it with

02:07:32 ◼   ► The membrane one because it feels the same as it did but but yeah this

02:07:37 ◼   ► You know, I've never really seriously considered a different keyboard

02:07:40 ◼   ► I really like this one that came with the Mac Pro and it the key travels got to be like a

02:07:44 ◼   ► Third or a quarter of what it was on the Apple extended to maybe maybe less maybe I'm you underestimate it. Oh

02:07:50 ◼   ► I I forgot the one thing I forgot to mention about the Logitech ridiculous software that it comes with

02:07:57 ◼   ► Because this mouse has a million different settings on it. Well, so cool things that this thing does it has

02:08:04 ◼   ► Settings for each of your devices and you can also use per application settings and it syncs them all to the cloud

02:08:10 ◼   ► So no matter what, you know, they have some kind of cloud service no matter what Mac you hook up to or any any computer

02:08:15 ◼   ► Mac or PC that you use this mouse with it will remember

02:08:19 ◼   ► Your preferences for how the buttons work and how the scroll wheel works and how the tracking works

02:08:23 ◼   ► Which is great like not having to sync that up. That's a great use of the cloud

02:08:26 ◼   ► And the second thing is it comes with a bunch of saved

02:08:31 ◼   ► Sets of like here. We've customized the things for this app, right?

02:08:35 ◼   ► So I'm in Chrome now and if I do the horizontal scroll wheel it switches between tabs

02:08:40 ◼   ► I don't know what all the settings are. I didn't look at them like it that prompts you and says hey

02:08:44 ◼   ► Do you want to try all these settings and I was like, you know what?

02:08:45 ◼   ► Why the hell not?

02:08:46 ◼   ► Like it has ones for Photoshop

02:08:48 ◼   ► It has ones for a whole bunch of common apps where it tries to make all the various buttons and stuff do things that are

02:08:53 ◼   ► Interesting and useful in those apps. Obviously you can customize this yourself again

02:08:57 ◼   ► Maybe why Mike got RSI maybe had a logic setup where he was doing all sorts of commands with it or whatever

02:09:02 ◼   ► But I like the idea that they do most of that work for you and sync it all through the cloud and have sort of

02:09:07 ◼   ► Third-party sharing of things steer mouse has that too, by the way

02:09:09 ◼   ► There's like hey here are settings that other people found useful for this particular mouse in terms of acceleration and sensitivity that works with you

02:09:17 ◼   ► Know and I would try other people settings that are like rated with star ratings or something and see

02:09:21 ◼   ► How how do other people have it set up and do I like it?

02:09:26 ◼   ► That is technology that's like above and beyond like

02:09:28 ◼   ► What you would think of in the old days of like you connect a mouse with the computer and it is what it is

02:09:32 ◼   ► It's so much beyond that town

02:09:34 ◼   ► I'm I'm I'm really I'm proud of Logitech for like I expected their software to be garbage and I expected

02:09:40 ◼   ► Their mice to be kind of clunky and these things feel really solid and their software seems pretty good and has useful features

02:09:47 ◼   ► I know again

02:09:48 ◼   ► I know it sounds terrible because they just sent me a bunch of free stuff

02:09:50 ◼   ► But this was my opinion before they sent me the free stuff as well take it take it as you will

02:09:54 ◼   ► Thanks to our sponsors this week Squarespace, Linode and Mack Weldon and we will see you next week

02:10:01 ◼   ► Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

02:10:10 ◼   ► It was accidental

02:10:13 ◼   ► John didn't do any research Margo and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental

02:10:21 ◼   ► It was accidental

02:10:24 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

02:10:30 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter you can follow them

02:10:34 ◼   ► @CASEYLISS

02:10:38 ◼   ► So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

02:10:43 ◼   ► Auntie Marco Armin S-I-R-A-C

02:10:48 ◼   ► USA, Syracuse

02:10:51 ◼   ► It's accidental

02:10:53 ◼   ► It's accidental

02:10:55 ◼   ► They didn't mean to

02:10:57 ◼   ► Accidental

02:10:59 ◼   ► Tech Podcast so long

02:11:03 ◼   ► You know I didn't get a chance to say this in the show

02:11:07 ◼   ► But I don't understand why you don't just do what I did which I a year or two ago would have seemed like heresy

02:11:13 ◼   ► I hope I pronounced that right, but anyways

02:11:15 ◼   ► It's pronounced "hear-say"

02:11:17 ◼   ► Yeah, "hear-say"

02:11:19 ◼   ► But anyways switching to the Magic Trackpad which I'm actually surprised

02:11:24 ◼   ► I hate trackpads. Oh my god. You should have had that you should have had this on no trackpads

02:11:28 ◼   ► Never. John no no John a year ago. I completely agree with you a year ago

02:11:32 ◼   ► I am I am probably more devout my hatred a year ago of trackpads than you are, but now I'm happy with it

02:11:39 ◼   ► I'm never switching to a trackpad. That's one of the reasons I hate laptops

02:11:42 ◼   ► I I grew up with mice the way other people grew up with walking like

02:11:46 ◼   ► Try like dragging your body across the ground by your teeth no

02:11:53 ◼   ► I'm always going to walk. I am always going to use a mouse for things that are mouse like oh my god

02:11:59 ◼   ► I hate trackpads

02:12:00 ◼   ► I understand why you have to have one on a laptop because it's a laptop as the only reason everyone will ever use one wow

02:12:07 ◼   ► John I'm telling you a year ago. I would have been even more devout. As an accessory like how Marker uses it

02:12:14 ◼   ► Yeah, then you're like a two-handed thing. This is my swipey pad, and this is my mouse, but no I got it

02:12:19 ◼   ► I'm a big fan left hand trackpad right hand mouse big fan, but but I got the cursor is controlled by the mouse

02:12:24 ◼   ► mouse.

02:12:25 ◼   ► [beeping]

02:12:25 ◼   ► (beeping)